Pushing The Limits: Recent Episodes

Lisa Tamati

Pushing the limits - the show that gets deep into the psyche of limit pushers from all walks of life. Out the box thinker, elite athlete, successful entrepreneurs, social change innovators, scientists and more. Cutting to the chase to find out what makes them so successful, how they did it, what their life philosophies are and what gems of wisdom they can impart to us all.

Hosted by Professional Adventure Athlete Lisa Tamati, author, producer, motivational speaker and mindset coach

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Your Immune Age Is Lying To You. Here's How To Read Your Blood And Fix It.

How old is your immune system, really?

It's probably not the same age as you are — and that gap may be the single biggest hidden driver of how well you age, how fast you recover, and how long you stay healthy. In this episode I break down what actually happens to your immune system as the years tick over — immunosenescence (the immune system getting weaker) and inflammaging (the silent, smouldering inflammation that never switches off) — and why almost every disease of ageing sits somewhere on that spectrum.

Then I get practical. I'll show you how to measure your immune age from a standard blood test you can get anywhere in the world, using seven scientifically validated ratios (NLR, PLR, MLR, LMR, SII, PIV and ELR) synthesised into a single Immune Resilience Index. We cover the cutting-edge science from Dr David Furman's 1000 Immunomes Project and the iAge inflammatory clock, the TRIIM and TRIIM-X thymus-regeneration trials, the gut-immune connection (70% of your immune cells live in your gut), the cytokines of ageing (IL-6, TNF-alpha, IL-1 beta, NF-kB and IL-10), and how our Re:juvenate Pro formulation was built to target exactly these pathways. If you want to stop guessing and start tracking the system that runs your healthspan, this one's for you

RELATED EPISODES — WATCH THESE NEXT

Dr David Furman | The 1000 Immunomes Project and the inflammatory clock of aging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFOSqEY7CNY

Dr Rod Claycomb | Colostrum, immune proteins and immune resilience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyOfcx9gvbE

Aevum Labs panel | Peter Lehrke, medical herbalist Mike Eyres and Dr Rod Claycomb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EstwHB3p3nI

Dr Elizabeth Yurth | Immune aging and how to slow it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_-_rFXcBIA

THE SCIENCE + RE:JUVENATE PRO Re:juvenate Pro at Aevum Labs: https://aevumlabs.co.nz/products/re-juvenate Aevum Labs: https://www.aevumlabs.co.nz

🌐 Website: https://www.lisatamati.com

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The link between micronutrients and mental health is one of the most overlooked stories in modern medicine, and Professor Julia Rucklidge has spent more than two decades proving it matters. In this episode of Pushing the Limits, she shares the research on micronutrients and mental health that has challenged psychiatry's drug-first model, showing that broad-spectrum vitamins and minerals can treat ADHD, depression and anxiety, often as effectively as medication and without the side effects. If you have ever wondered how deeply micronutrients and mental health are connected, this conversation will change how you think about your brain, your mood and the food you eat every day.

Professor Julia Rucklidge is a clinical psychologist at the University of Canterbury and Director of Te Puna Toiora, the Mental Health and Nutrition Research Lab. She is co-author, with Bonnie Kaplan, of The Better Brain, and her work has been published in leading psychiatry journals and viewed by millions through her TEDx talk. She came into this field as a sceptic, trained to believe that nutrition was irrelevant to the brain, and changed her mind only when the evidence became impossible to ignore.

In this conversation, Julia explains what her clinical trials actually found, and why 60 to 80 percent of people respond to a broad-spectrum approach once you move past the noise of a blinded study. We talk about why feeding the whole system beats chasing a single nutrient, what the biomarkers reveal about inflammation, methylation and the microbiome, and why the RDAs were never designed to support an optimally functioning brain. She makes the case that the recommended daily allowances we rely on were built to prevent deficiency diseases, not to help the brain thrive, and that this gap matters enormously for anyone struggling with their mental health.

We also explore the bigger forces at play: depleted soils and what modern agriculture has done to the nutrient density of our food, the rise of ultra-processed food and why Julia calls it the cigarette of the twenty-first century, and the antidepressant withdrawal that so many people are never warned about. She shares her frustration with New Zealand's outdated supplement regulations, where a product can be effectively banned for containing a fraction too much of a nutrient, and a distributor can be threatened with serious penalties for selling something that genuinely works.

Most of all, this is a hopeful conversation. It is about taking back control of your health through the food on your plate, understanding the real connection between what you eat and how you feel, and recognising that small, consistent changes can have a profound effect on the brain. Whether you are a parent navigating a child's behaviour, someone managing your own mental health, or simply curious about the science of nutrition and the brain, this episode will give you a new lens on what is possible.

If you have ever been told that nutrition is irrelevant to your brain, this episode is for you.

Resources and mentions: The Better Brain by Bonnie Kaplan and Julia Rucklidge What Your Food Ate by David Montgomery and Anne Biklé Te Puna Toiora, Mental Health and Nutrition Research Lab, University of Canterbury

Biography:

09:26   Claude responded: Professor Julia Rucklidge is a clinical psychologist at the University of Canterbury and Director of Te Puna Toiora, the Mental Health and Nutrition Research L… div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> Professor Julia Rucklidge is a clinical psychologist at the University of Canterbury and Director of Te Puna Toiora, the Mental Health and Nutrition Research Lab. One of the world's leading researchers in nutritional psychiatry, she has spent more than two decades running placebo-controlled trials showing that broad-spectrum micronutrients can treat ADHD, depression, anxiety and stress, often as effectively as medication and without the side effects. She is co-author, with Bonnie Kaplan, of The Better Brain, and her TEDx talk on nutrition and mental health has been viewed millions of times. Based in Christchurch, New Zealand, she is on a mission to put nutrition where she argues it belongs: as a serious, evidence-based part of how we treat and prevent mental illness.

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What if there was an exogenous ketone that didn't go through the liver, didn't cause the GI distress of other ketones, and delivered bioidentical BHB directly to your cells?

In this episode, Lisa sits down with Mike Chesne, founder of Tecton and retired US Army Special Forces combat medic, who spent 25 years in special operations before developing R3HBG — a patented ketone molecule that's categorically different from everything else on the market.

Mike's journey from battlefield medicine to biotech is extraordinary. After suffering multiple traumatic brain injuries from IED blasts during nearly three years of combat, he went through brain injury rehabilitation and discovered the neuroprotective potential of ketones. He asked one question that changed everything: "If I had been in ketosis when I got blown up, how much better would my outcome have been?"

That question led him to Oxford University, to Dr Kieran Clarke's lab, and eventually to designing his own molecule — drawing it on a napkin and spending over a decade turning it into a manufactured, FDA-reviewed product.

In this deep-dive episode we cover:

  • Mike's military career and the brain injuries that changed his path
  • The DARPA project that spent $10 million searching for a supplement to boost performance and cognition by 30%
  • Why the brain in Alzheimer's and TBI can't access glucose but can still take up ketones
  • R3HBG explained: how lipase (not alcohol dehydrogenase) breaks it down, and why that matters
  • The differences between BHB salts, R-1,3-butanediol, the original ketone ester, and R3HBG
  • The NLRP3 inflammasome and how BHB blocks the inflammatory cascade driving neurodegeneration
  • HDAC inhibition and how BHB switches on your body's own antioxidant and longevity genes
  • NDI #1354 and what FDA New Dietary Ingredient acceptance means
  • The GLP-1 agonist connection for weight management and metabolic health
  • Therapeutic dosing for cognition, endurance, and recovery
  • Mike's vision to license R3HBG to every ketone company willing to use it
  • Lisa's experience using ketones with her mother's brain injury and cancer recovery

This is the most comprehensive ketone science episode we've ever produced.

TECTON KETONES: Use this link for a discount https://tectonketones.com/discount/TAMATI

While you're optimising your brain and metabolic health, give your body foundational support with Re:juvenate Pro, my advanced cellular health and longevity formula (https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate), and explore my full curated range of anti-aging and longevity supplements at shop.lisatamati.com.

CONNECT WITH LISA Website: lisatamati.com Shop: shop.lisatamati.com

Newsletter: www.lisatamati.com/lisa

Podcast: https://www.lisatamati.com/ptl-podcast/

Books: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Pushing the Limits is brought to you by Lisa Tamati and the team at lisatamati.com.

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What if the reason you're not getting better isn't about what you're putting in — but what you can't get out?

In this episode I sit down with Tash Simons from INUSpheresis Perth — the first clinic in Australia and the Southern Hemisphere to offer this advanced blood filtration therapy. We go deep into how double filtration plasmapheresis works, the two specialised filters (TKM58 and INUS 30), and the science behind removing autoantibodies, inflammatory cytokines, heavy metals, microplastics, PCBs, and oxidised LDL directly from your blood — without involving your kidneys or liver.

We cover the clinical research across long COVID, ME/CFS, autoimmune conditions, Lyme disease, Alzheimer's, and cardiovascular risk including Lp(a) — one of the hardest lipid markers to shift. Tash shares the personal story of how a family member's chronic fatigue led her and Dr Robbie Simons to discover this therapy in Vienna, and the journey to bring it to Perth — from TGA registration and insurance approvals to Swiss certification and over 100 treatments completed.

If you're dealing with a chronic condition that won't budge, carrying a toxic load, or thinking about longevity from a subtractive medicine perspective — this one's for you.

Book a consult or submit a new patient form at inuspheresisperth.com.au

Check out my supplement store at shop.lisatamati.com Rejuvenate Pro at shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate My books at shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books Sign up for my newsletter at www.lisatamati.com/lisa Listen to more episodes at www.lisatamati.com/ptl-podcast/

div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> This episode is also brought to you by Rejuvenate Pro from Aevum Labs. If INUSpheresis is about taking the bad stuff out, Rejuvenate Pro is about protecting what stays behind. Featuring kawakawa, carnosic acid, Immunel colostrum extract and IDP (Immune Defense Protein), it targets the chronic systemic inflammation that silently drives aging. It's the first supplement in every protocol I build for my clients — and it should be in yours. Shop now at shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

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🌐 Website: https://www.lisatamati.com

🛒 Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com

📧 Contact: support@lisatamati.com

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Could a simple mineral deficiency be driving mitochondrial dysfunction in autism? In this episode I sit down with Melissa Atchley from MitoSynergy to hear her personal story of using BioCopper1 with her son on the autism spectrum — and the changes she saw that no one expected.

I break down the science behind it: Dr Richard Frye's research showing Complex IV dysfunction in children with ASD, the brand new April 2026 Science Advances paper linking copper deficiency directly to ASD-like behaviours through mitochondrial damage and impaired myelination, and why the type of copper matters — Cu1+ vs Cu2+ — more than most people realise.

We also cover MitoSynergy's new MitoActivator MAX (4x the strength of the standard formula), the hair greying reversal angle, athletic performance benefits, and practical dosing guidance. If you or someone you love is navigating autism, fatigue, grey hair, or just wants to understand why copper might be the most overlooked mineral in health — this one is worth your time.

Get yours in my shop: https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/mitoactivator-max-max-strength-biocopper1-supplement-60-capsmitosynergy-mitoactivator-max?_pos=2&_sid=5c471c21c&_ss=r

Or use code LisaTamati at Mitosynergy.com for your discount

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These two doctors are building a clinic where the most advanced longevity therapies have no limits. Dr. Alexander Grinberg (Infinity Epigenetics, San Francisco) and Dr. Dave Jenkins (Bredesen-trained, 40+ years clinical experience) are combining peptide therapy, regenerative medicine, and personalised protocols at a level most people don't know exists. From Klotho protein restoring cognitive function in head injury patients to mitochondrial peptides that can rescue dying cells — this conversation covers the cutting edge of what's actually possible right now.

About the Guests

Dr. Alexander Grinberg MD is a physician, immunologist, and peptide therapy specialist practicing in San Francisco. He holds a fellowship from the Moscow Immunology Institute and consults internationally on advanced customised longevity protocols. He runs Infinity Epigenetics and teaches physicians in high-end integration of peptides, regenerative medicine, and genetic therapies.

Dr. Dave Jenkins is a New Zealand-trained physician with 40+ years of clinical experience specialising in metabolic and neurological health. He is Bredesen Protocol (ReCODE) trained and runs a longevity clinic in Bali. He co-developed a Type 2 Diabetes reversal program now being published and reviewed by NZ's top diabetic specialists.

In this episode

  • Why Klotho protein may be one of the most powerful longevity interventions available — and the different delivery forms (protein injection, peptide fragments, gene therapy)
  • Dr. Dave's clinical Klotho results: a doctor with chronic head injury returning to practice, and his own memory score jumping from the 66th to the 97th percentile in six weeks
  • How mitochondrial peptides (MOTS-c, SS-31, Humanin) work and why dosing wrong can be dangerous — especially in autoimmune and cancer history cases
  • The case for micro-dosing peptides and why skin testing should come first
  • Personalised medicine taken to its extreme: harvesting a patient's own cells, expanding them in culture, and running accelerated longevity and cancer resilience tests before any intervention
  • Why peptide purity and sourcing is a serious safety concern — and what the clinic will do differently
  • The vision for a Pacific Island longevity clinic offering therapies unavailable in the US, EU, NZ, or Australia — with a social impact mission to address metabolic disease in local populations
  • Off-label repurposed drugs for cancer (metformin, ivermectin, doxycycline, mebendazole) and why the regulatory environment matters
  • How custom peptides designed from a patient's own genome could replace pharmaceuticals entirely

Resources mentioned

  • Infinity Epigenetics — infinityepigenetics.com
  • Dr. Dave Jenkins —
  • 🌐 https://youngerbyscience.com/ 🌐 https://theendofalzheimers.com

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Your cells start failing at 35. Dr Sandra Kaufmann reveals the 7 systems breaking down — and how to stop it.

Your cells start failing at 35. Dr Sandra Kaufmann reveals the 7 systems breaking down — and how to stop it.

👉 FREE Longevity Cheat Sheet — subscribe to my weekly newsletter: https://www.lisatamati.com/lisa/

Description: Your cells start failing at 35.

Dr Sandra Kaufmann reveals the 7 systems breaking down — and how to stop it.

Dr Sandra Kaufmann is a cell biologist, physician, and creator of the Kaufmann Protocol — the first comprehensive rating system for anti-aging supplements.

In this episode she shares the off-label drugs, supplement stacks, and cellular strategies she uses daily to slow aging at the molecular level. We go deep on mast cell activation and its connection to aneurysms and heart attacks, why NAD infusions may be doing more harm than good, the three sirtuins you need to prioritise after 40, why she takes 70 supplements and 13 medications at low doses, and the SGLT2 inhibitor drugs that are regrowing healthy heart cells by clearing senescent zombie cells.

This is one of the most important longevity conversations I have had on the show.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 - Teaser: Senolytic drugs that regrow healthy heart cells 0:20 - Welcome and intro to Dr Sandra Kaufmann 1:38 - Sandra's background: cell biologist to longevity expert 3:14 - The Post-it note office and chasing the aging puzzle 8:33 - The Seven Tenets of Aging overview 10:19 - Tenet 3: Sirtuins, AMPK, mTOR, and circadian rhythms 11:54 - Tenet 4: DNA repair, proteostasis, autophagy 13:07 - Deep dive: Mast cells and tissue destruction 14:16 - Mast cells, heart attacks, and aneurysms 17:43 - Mastering the Mast Cell: Sandra's new publication 21:06 - Stress triggers mast cell degranulation 23:04 - Mast cell stabilisers: supplements and drugs 27:17 - Sirtuins 1, 3, and 6: the keys to cellular homeostasis 30:05 - Best activators: pterostilbene, DHM, fucoidan 33:38 - The NAD debate: NMN vs NR vs infusions 36:23 - Why NAD IV infusions are a bad idea 39:06 - Rotating NAD precursors: Sandra's approach 44:52 - NRF2 pathway and why daily glutathione is a mistake 50:05 - 70 supplements and 13 drugs at low synergistic doses 56:50 - Rapamycin: Sandra says no 57:51 - Metformin: 250-500mg not 2000mg 1:00:16 - The Flozins: glucose excretion plus senolytic activity 1:02:32 - Epalrestat: blocking the glucose to fructose conversion 1:04:41 - Sandra's 5 daily eye drops protocol 1:08:13 - Naringenin, nobiletin, and the orange peel stack 1:11:28 - Supplement roundup and the Kaufmann Rating System 1:15:23 - Where to find Dr Sandra Kaufmann

SPONSOR MESSAGE This episode is brought to you by MitoSynergy. If you are looking for next-level mitochondrial support, MitoSynergy delivers bioavailable copper in a patented form that supports energy production at the cellular level. Head to mitosynergy.com/lisaTamati and you will get 10% off your order.

And if you have not tried Re:juvenate Pro yet, this is the supplement I formulated with my biotech company Aevum Labs. It is not another NAD supplement. Re:juvenate Pro targets immunosenescence, the aging of your immune system, which sits upstream of so many of the problems Sandra and I discussed today. It contains kawakawa, carnosic acid, Immunel colostrum extract, and Immune Defense Protein working across multiple pathways including NRF2 activation, gut barrier support, and immune modulation. It is the first thing I put in every client protocol and it is what I give my mum every single day. You can grab it at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

🔗 LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Website: kaufmannprotocol. Website: kaufmannprotocol.com Clinical practice: kaufmannlongevity.com

Instagram: instagram.com/kaufmannantiaging

Books: amazon.com/stores/Dr-Sandra-Charlotte-Kaufmann/author/B07BDL1WV8

E-treatise: Mastering the Mast Cell (search Amazon)

Club Exosome: quarterly in Las Vegas with Steve McCain

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🌐 Website: https://www.lisatamati.com

🛒 Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com

🎙️ Podcast: https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast

📧 Contact: support@lisatamati.com

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About Lisa Tamati: Longevity specialist, functional health practitioner, co-founder of Aevum Labs (home of Rejuvenate Pro), and host of Pushing The Limits — a globally top-200-ranked health podcast. Author of 4 books.

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div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> Your immune system isn't just fighting off colds. It's the foundational system that influences all 14 hallmarks of aging — and when it declines, everything downstream accelerates.

In this episode, I sit down with Courtney Van Bussum, COO of Longevity Launch Labs, to dive deep into immunosenescence — the aging of the immune system — and why it starts far earlier than most people realise. We unpack what Stanford's landmark 1000 Immunomes Project revealed about the real driver of biological aging, why your supplement stack might be missing the most important piece, and how we built Re:juvenate Pro (Cell Restore in the US) to target immune aging at its root.

We get into the fire station analogy that makes the immune system finally make sense, why 70-80% of your immune system lives in your gut and what that means for barrier health, the science behind four synergistic ingredients — Immune Defense Protein, Immunel colostrum extract, carnosic acid from NZ rosemary, and kawakawa — and why standard colostrum supplements aren't cutting it.

We also cover why NSAIDs are impairing your recovery, what CXCL9 is and why most practitioners have never heard of it, Isobel's lymphocyte count recovery story, the immune age calculator app, and why "boost your immune system" is the wrong approach — modulation is everything.

This is not another colostrum product. This is upstream immune intervention.

Links:

Shop Re:juvenate Pro (NZ): https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

Aevum Labs: https://aevumlabs.co.nz

Cell Restore (US practitioners): https://aevumlabs.us

Cell Restore (US patients): https://ohphealth.com

Longevity Launch Labs: https://longevitylaunch.com

Lisa's books: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Longevity newsletter: https://www.lisatamati.com/lisa

More episodes: https://www.lisatamati.com/ptl-podcast/

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What if you could know 20 YEARS before symptoms appear whether you're heading for Alzheimer's? And what if there was a proven way to reverse early cognitive decline?

In this episode, I sit down with my dear friend Dr. Dave Jenkins — the leading Dr. Dale Bredesen Protocol practitioner in the Southern Hemisphere — to unpack the p-Tau 217 blood test revolution and the stunning results from Bredesen's latest randomised controlled trial.

Dr. Dave breaks down how a simple finger-prick blood test can now detect the Alzheimer's process with 95% certainty up to TWO DECADES before memory symptoms begin. This isn't diagnosing Alzheimer's — it's diagnosing the process, which means you have 20 years to intervene.

We dive into Bredesen's 2024 multi-site RCT showing the ReCODE precision medicine protocol is 6–7x MORE POWERFUL than the best Alzheimer's drug currently available in America (lecanemab) — a drug with devastating side effects including brain bleeds and even death.

Dr. Dave shares real clinical insights from his Bali longevity practice including the 30–60 "holes in the roof" driving cognitive decline, cutting-edge peptides (Semax, Selank, Cerebrolysin, Dihexa), bioregulators, and his personal experience with Klotho gene therapy that took his memory scores from the 70th to the 97th percentile in just 6 weeks.

This is essential listening for anyone with a family history of Alzheimer's, anyone watching a loved one decline, and anyone who wants to take brain health seriously BEFORE it becomes a crisis.

⏰ CHAPTERS: [to be generated after edit]

🧠 IN THIS EPISODE: ✅ The p-Tau 217 blood test — detect Alzheimer's 20 years early ✅ Bredesen's RCT: 6–7x more powerful than lecanemab ✅ The BrainScan panel: p-Tau 217, NfL, GFAP explained ✅ Why amyloid drugs chase the smoke, not the fire ✅ The 30–60 "holes in the roof" driving cognitive decline ✅ APOE4 genetics — who needs to pay attention ✅ Peptides for brain health (Semax, Selank, Cerebrolysin, Dihexa) ✅ Klotho gene therapy — 70th to 97th percentile memory scores ✅ Dr. Dave's Bali longevity program at Ravivo Resorts ✅ How NZ/AU listeners can access testing remotely

🔗 CONNECT WITH DR. DAVE JENKINS: 🌐 youngerbyscience.com 🌐 endalzheimers.com.au

🔗 RESOURCES MENTIONED: 🧬 BrainScan p-Tau 217 Test — neurocode.com 🧠 Dr. Dale Bredesen / Apollo Health — apollohealthco.com 📄 Bredesen 2025 RCT — apollohealthco.com/rct-2025

💊 EPISODE SPONSOR: MitoSynergy BioCopper1 — Get 10% off at mitosynergy.com/lisatamati The patented copper nicotinate chelate I take daily for mitochondrial ATP production, mental clarity, and sustained focus.

🔗 WORK WITH LISA: 🌐 lisatamati.com 🛒 shop.lisatamati.com 🧬 aevumlabs.co.nz 🎙️ Pushing the Limits Podcast — lisatamati.com/podcast 📧 support@lisatamati.com

📱 FOLLOW LISA: Instagram: @lisatamati Facebook: @lisatamati

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The global healthcare system is heading for a catastrophic workforce shortage — 10 to 15 million workers short by 2030. In this episode, financial analyst and Tesla expert Cern Basher (@cernbasher) returns to break down how humanoid robots like Tesla's Optimus could be the only scalable solution, why New Zealand is uniquely positioned to lead a healthcare robotics pilot, and what the Terafab chip factory and Digital Optimus mean for the timeline.

From fleet learning to the privacy concerns, from Moxy robots already in 25+ US hospitals to Elon Musk's vision of billions of robots powered by space-based AI — this is the conversation that healthcare, tech, and policy leaders need to be having right now.

IN THIS EPISODE:

The global healthcare workforce crisis — why no recruitment drive can fix it Robots already in hospitals: Moxy's 1M+ deliveries across 25 US hospitals Tesla Optimus: where the technology is right now The three components: physical body, AI brain, and language model Fleet learning explained — 40 robots learn in 6 months what takes a human 25 years Why New Zealand is the ideal proving ground for healthcare robotics Digital Optimus and Macrohard: the software robot that runs businesses Terafab: Tesla's $25B chip factory with SpaceX and xAI

This episode is sponsored by MitoSynergy Copper 1+ Most copper supplements use poorly absorbed oxidised forms that can actually increase free radical damage. MitoSynergy's patented BioCopper1 (Cunermuspir) is a copper-niacin chelate that delivers reduced copper (Cu1+) directly to your mitochondria, supporting ATP production at cytochrome c oxidase. I've been personally testing MitoActivator EX and have noticed a real difference in training power and energy output. Try it: https://mitosynergy.com/lisaTamati (10% off with this link)

ABOUT CERN BASHER: NZ-born financial analyst and one of the most influential voices on X at the intersection of AI, Bitcoin, Tesla, and macroeconomics. Follow Cern: @cernbasher on X and YouTube


PTL SIGNAL — AI, Tech, Bitcoin and Markets: https://ptlsignal.com Free founding member access to our AI-powered Financial Document Analyzer — earnings transcripts, annual reports, Fed minutes analysed in 60 seconds.

Take control of your health and unlock the secrets to a longer, healthier and more vibrant life: https://www.lisatamati.com/healthspan-hacks-course/

SHOP Longevity Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com


PODCAST — Pushing The Limits: https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/pushing-the-limits/id1207975008 https://open.spotify.com/show/6mc5BfQispXYMxd4AaYXYL

FOLLOW LISA: Instagram: @lisatamati X/Twitter: @lisaytamati YouTube: @LisaTamati

Enquiries: support@lisatamati.com Website: www.lisatamati.com Shop: shop.lisatamati.com PTL Signal: ptlsignal.com

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🔬 This episode is sponsored by MitoSynergy Copper 1+ Most copper supplements use poorly absorbed oxidised forms that can actually increase free radical damage. MitoSynergy's patented BioCopper1 (Cunermuspir) is a copper-niacin chelate that delivers reduced copper (Cu1+) directly to your mitochondria, supporting ATP production at cytochrome c oxidase. I've been personally testing MitoActivator EX and have noticed a real difference in training power and energy output. 👉 Try it: https://mitosynergy.com/lisaTamati (10% off with this link)


New Zealand has a once-in-a-generation opportunity to position itself at the front of the humanoid robotics revolution — but nobody's talking about the real safety, privacy and cybersecurity concerns. In this video I break down why NZ should be aggressively pursuing Tesla and robotics in healthcare, the genuine risks around humanoid robots in personal spaces, and why the countries that get involved early don't just get the economic upside — they get to write the rules.

🎯 IN THIS VIDEO: → Why NZ could transform its economy with robotics in healthcare → The 5 real safety concerns about humanoid robots in personal spaces → Physical safety: the fall problem and force-limiting technology → Cybersecurity: what happens when someone hacks a walking camera → Privacy: the robot secretly sending data to China every 5 minutes → The teleoperation problem — strangers controlling robots in your home → Why there are NO safety standards yet for home robots → How NZ can shape global robotics regulation instead of inheriting it → The healthcare pilot approach: why hospitals first, homes later → First-mover advantage: NZ as the proving ground for humanoid robots

📺 RELATED EPISODES: → AI Just Broke The Economy — Cern Basher Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0hKibH6Zs → Tesla's Building A Robot Army — Cern Basher Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0hKibH6Zs → Why Tesla, Bitcoin & AI Are Moving Together — Cern Basher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzRPBLa2_Do&t=9s --------------------------------------------

🔬 SPONSOR: MitoSynergy Copper 1+ Patented BioCopper1 (Cunermuspir) — delivers reduced copper directly to your mitochondria for ATP production, energy, mental clarity, and healthy ageing. Not your average copper supplement. 👉 https://mitosynergy.com/lisaTamati (10% off)


➡️ Take control of your health & unlock the secrets to a longer, healthier & more vibrant life: https://www.lisatamati.com/healthspan-hacks-course/

🛒 SHOP Longevity Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com

Lisa's Ai, Tech, Crypto and Investing Website

www.ptlsignal.com


🎙️ PODCAST — Pushing The Limits: 🎧 https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast 🎧 https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/pushing-the-limits/id1207975008 🎧 https://open.spotify.com/show/6mc5BfQispXYMxd4AaYXYL

📱 FOLLOW LISA: Instagram: @lisatamati X/Twitter: @lisatamati YouTube: @LisaTamati Facebook: /lisatamatiultrarunner

📧 Enquiries: support@lisatamati.com 🌐 Website: www.lisatamati.com 🛒 Shop: shop.lisatamati.com

#TeslaOptimus #RobotsInHealthCare #HumanoidRobots #NewZealand

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Wall Street veteran and macro investor Jordi Visser spent 30 years managing billions in risk — building turbulence models to predict market crashes before they happened. Then he turned that exact same framework on his own biology. The result? He raised his HRV from the high 20s to the 60s over six years. Not with a protocol. With a system.

Jordi is back on Pushing The Limits for round two and this episode covers everything. We go deep on HRV and longevity — what your wearable is actually telling you, why your gut health is the foundation of your HRV, why breathwork beats meditation, why muscle is a signal organ not just a performance tool, and how to use AI as a daily thinking partner to accelerate your health journey.

Then we flip to macro. Jordi breaks down why he believes capitalism's 10,000 year bargain between capital and labour officially broke in 2025, why Bitcoin is the architectural blueprint for what comes next, why AI agents cannot operate without crypto infrastructure, and what the Strait of Hormuz crisis means for oil, commodities and your investments right now.

We also get into the AI revolution and what it means for ordinary people — why entrepreneurs will beat Google, why you don't need to be technical to benefit from AI, how to build multiple income streams using these tools, and why leaning in now is the most empowering thing you can do for your financial future.

This is one of the most wide ranging conversations we have ever had on Pushing The Limits. Health, wealth, technology and the future — all connected by the same framework.

Topics covered include heart rate variability, HRV and longevity, resonance frequency breathing, the gut brain vagus nerve axis, muscle and ageing, fermented foods and the microbiome, AI tools for entrepreneurs, Bitcoin 2026, macro investing, the private credit crisis, Strait of Hormuz oil shock, commodities bull market, hardware stocks and why 2008 can never happen again.

Find Jordi Visser at visserjhrv.substack.com for his HRV Substack and visserlabs.substack.com for his macro AI and Bitcoin research. His YouTube channel is at youtube.com/@JordiVisserlabs and he heads AI Macro Nexus Research at 22V Research.

Find out more about Lisa and her work at lisatamati.com. Shop longevity supplements including Re:juvenate Pro at shop.lisatamati.com. Re:juvenate Pro is Aevum Labs flagship longevity formula targeting immunosenescence, inflammageing, gut health and cellular repair — co-developed with Dr Elizabeth Yurth of the Boulder Longevity Institute. Learn more at aevumlabs.co.nz.

Pushing The Limits is available on all major podcast platforms. Subscribe and leave a review if this episode added value to your life.

REJUVENATE PRO — AEVUM LABS: Our flagship longevity formula targeting immunosenescence, inflammageing, gut health and cellular repair. Co-developed with Dr Elizabeth Yurth of the Boulder Longevity Institute. NZ made, science backed, no fillers. Shop now: https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

LONGEVITY SUPPLEMENT STORE: Everything Lisa personally uses and recommends: https://shop.lisatamati.com

WORK WITH LISA: Functional health practitioner consultations for complex cases: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/work-with-lisa

LISA'S BOOKS: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/books

FREE NEWSLETTER AND LONGEVITY CHEAT SHEET: https://www.lisatamati.com/lisa/

WEBSITE: https://www.lisatamati.com

PODCAST: https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast

CONTACT: support@lisatamati.com

FOLLOW LISA: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisatamati

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lisatamati

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/lisatamati

X: https://x.com/lisatamati

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Is your NAD+ supplement actually working against you?

Millions of people are taking NMN or NR thinking they're doing something smart for their longevity. And the science behind NAD+ is genuinely extraordinary. But the way most people are supplementing it is incomplete — and there's growing evidence it could be creating downstream harm most people never connect back to their supplement.

In this episode I break down the full NAD+ story — the methylation trap, the CD38 drain, why high-dose NMN may be elevating your cardiovascular risk markers, and what an intelligent systems-level approach actually looks like.

I co-developed NAD+ Next Gen with Peter Lehrke— and in this episode I walk you through exactly why every ingredient is in the formula.

WHAT WE COVER: - The 2023 Nature Cardiovascular Research findings on NMN & ADMA - How high-dose NMN drains your SAM pool and disrupts dopamine, DNA methylation and homocysteine - CD38 — the biggest NAD+ drain in ageing nobody talks about - The bathtub model: precursors, drains, sirtuin efficiency - Why niacinamide may be smarter than high-dose NMN - EGCG, resveratrol, apigenin, quercetin, rutin — the why behind each ingredient - 6 practical takeaways including which blood test to get now

KEY LINKS: NAD+ Next Gen → https://aevumlabs.co.nz Rejuvenate Pro → https://shop.lisatamati.com Pushing The Limits community → https://www.lisatamati.com

GET YOUR HOMOCYSTEINE TESTED: Optimal: below 7–8 µmol/L Above 10 µmol/L: address your methylation cycle urgently

Lisa Tamati is a functional health practitioner, longevity specialist, co-founder of Aevum Labs, host of Pushing The Limits, and former elite ultra-endurance athlete with 25 years and 140+ ultramarathons across the world's most extreme environments.

Visit Lisa's website

www.lisatamati.com

shop.lisatamati.com

www.longlifehyperbarics.com

www.aevumlabs.co.nz

www.Yourhealthcompass.org

www.Myimmuneage.life

Work with Lisa:

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div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> Episode Title: Tesla's Building A Robot Army — And A $1.5 Trillion Merger | Cern Basher

Short Description: Bitcoin isn't money — it's a cyber security technology. And we're going to need it desperately. Cern Basher, CFA, breaks down why AI agents will choose Bitcoin, the Tesla robotaxi economics, the SpaceX–xAI mega-merger, and why Strategy might be the world's largest digital security company.

Full Description:

How do you constrain trillions of AI agents roaming the internet? Not with passwords and code — AI will hack all of that. You do it with physics. You do it with Bitcoin.

In Part 2 of my conversation with Cern Basher — CFA charterholder, CIO of Brilliant Advice, and one of the sharpest analysts at the intersection of AI, Bitcoin, and macroeconomics — we go deep on Jason Lowery's classified Softwar thesis and why the US Department of Defence placed it under security review. Cern explains why Bitcoin is actually a cyber security protocol hiding in plain sight, disguised by the word "coin" in its name — just like gunpowder was disguised as medicine for years before engineers figured out what it really was.

We also break down the deflationary tsunami hitting every industry — SaaS companies losing billions in market cap overnight, Salesforce and the consulting industry being hollowed out by AI agents, and why deflation is actually something we should celebrate, not fear. We already lived through it with the iPhone and we loved it.

Cern shares his brilliant analogy for why Tesla is massively undervalued — a kid running a lemonade stand who's secretly training to become a surgeon, but Wall Street only sees the lemonade. We get into whether SpaceX and Tesla will merge, the economics of putting AI data centres in space, manufacturing pharmaceuticals in zero gravity, and the incredible opportunity for any individual to own a small fleet of robotaxis and replace their income.

For New Zealand, this is a call to action. Be first. Be forward-thinking. Or watch other countries leapfrog us.

In this episode we discuss:

  • Bitcoin as a cyber security technology, not just money — and why that's even more valuable
  • Jason Lowery's Softwar thesis — proof of work as digital defence
  • Why AI agents unanimously choose Bitcoin for transactions
  • The gunpowder analogy — Bitcoin's real use case is hiding in plain sight
  • Google's centralised censorship of health and supplement companies
  • OpenClaw and the Pandora's box of billions of AI agents
  • SaaS is cooked — Salesforce, consulting, and legal getting hollowed out
  • Deflation is good — the iPhone proved it and we all benefited
  • The ice cutter disruption story — this is nothing new
  • The K-shaped economy — will abundance lift the bottom 50%?
  • Universal high income and making goods freely available like water
  • Strategy (MicroStrategy) as the world's largest digital security company
  • Tesla undervalued — the lemonade stand to surgeon analogy
  • Will SpaceX and Tesla merge? Pros, cons, and what Cern is hearing
  • AI data centres in space, pharma in zero gravity, and Starship economics
  • Owning your own robotaxi fleet — replacing your income
  • New Zealand's opportunity to leapfrog the world

Links mentioned: Cern Basher on X: https://x.com/CernBasher Brilliant Advice: https://www.brilliantadvice.net Jason Lowery's Softwar thesis (MIT): https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/153030 Cern's GDP & Dematerialisation post: https://x.com/CernBasher/status/1913993658572984440 Part 1 of this episode: https://youtu.be/eh0hKibH6Zs

👉 Get your FREE Longevity Cheat Sheet: https://www.lisatamati.com/lisa/

🌐 Website: https://www.lisatamati.com 🎙️ Podcast: https://www.lisatamati.com/ptl-podcast/ 🛒 Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com 📧 Contact: support@lisatamati.com

#PushingTheLimits #Tesla #SpaceX #Bitcoin #Robots #AI #CernBasher #Longevity #HealthOptimisation

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What happens when AI makes intelligence essentially free — and unlimited energy plus humanoid robots make physical labour free too? The economic models we've built our entire civilisation on stop working.

In this episode I sit down with Cern Basher — a CFA charterholder, CIO of Brilliant Advice, and one of the sharpest minds at the intersection of AI, Bitcoin, and macroeconomics. Originally from New Zealand, Cern has built a massive following for his work connecting the dots between exponential technology and the future of money.

We go deep on his thesis that AI and Bitcoin are two sides of the same coin — AI collapses the cost of intelligence (deflationary), and Bitcoin provides a monetary system that can't be inflated away. We explore Jason Lowery's Softwar thesis (which the US Department of Defence placed under security review), why AI agents will naturally adopt Bitcoin for autonomous transactions, and Cern's provocative argument that infinite output multiplied by zero price equals zero GDP — making our most fundamental economic metric meaningless.

If you've ever wondered what the economy actually looks like when abundance replaces scarcity, this is the conversation.

In this episode we discuss:

  • Why AI and Bitcoin are "two sides of the same coin"
  • Jason Lowery's Softwar thesis and why the DoD took notice
  • How AI is already contributing more to US GDP growth than consumer spending
  • Why AI agents need Bitcoin — permissionless, no KYC, no intermediaries
  • Cern's "death of GDP" thesis — infinite supply × zero price = zero GDP
  • The dematerialisation of physical products (cameras, maps, books, money)
  • What this means for New Zealand and small economies
  • How abundance economics breaks traditional supply and demand

Links mentioned: Cern Basher on X: https://x.com/CernBasher Brilliant Advice: https://www.brilliantadvice.net Cern's GDP post: https://x.com/CernBasher/status/1913993658572984440 Jason Lowery's Softwar thesis: https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/153030

👉 Get your FREE Longevity Cheat Sheet: https://www.lisatamati.com/lisa/

🌐 Website: https://www.lisatamati.com 🛒 Supplements: https://shop.lisatamati.com 📧 Contact: support@lisatamati.com

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What if the diet you've been following diligently — eating all the right things, tracking your macros, staying committed — is actually wrong for your specific biology?

In this solo episode I share the anonymised case of a real client who gained eight kilograms following a ketogenic diet perfectly. Not because she was doing it wrong. Because her genetics made her one of the worst possible candidates for high saturated fat eating — and nobody had ever looked at her DNA.

We go deep on the three specific genetic variants that predicted her poor response to keto, what her full microbiome mapping revealed that standard testing would have completely missed, and how her hormonal picture and chronic stress were silently driving the whole metabolic picture.

This episode is for anyone who has tried hard, followed the advice, and still isn't getting results. It's time to stop blaming yourself and start looking at your biology.

We cover why Instagram diet advice is genuinely dangerous for people with different genetics, what comprehensive functional testing actually looks like — DNA panels, microbiome mapping, DUTCH hormone testing, detailed bloodwork — and the universal dietary principles that apply to almost everyone regardless of their genetic profile.

Your body is not broken. It just needs the right instructions.

Find Lisa at lisatamati.com, shop supplements at shop.lisatamati.com,

and try Rejuvenate Pro — our flagship Immune and gut health/longevity supplement — at https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

Discover your immune age at myimmuneage.life

Subscribe to my weekly longevity newsletter at lisatamati.com/lisa

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div]:bg-bg-000/50 [&_pre>div]:border-0.5 [&_pre>div]:border-border-400 [&_.ignore-pre-bg>div]:bg-transparent [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.standard-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pl-2 [&_.progressive-markdown_:is(p,blockquote,ul,ol,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6)]:pr-8"> _*]:min-w-0 gap-3 standard-markdown"> Your immune system doesn't just fight colds — it's the foundation of your longevity, brain health, and recovery capacity. But here's what most people don't realize: immune aging (immunosenescence) begins as early as your teenage years, and your thymus gland — the training ground for your T-cells — is already shrinking. Your thymus shrinks 3% every year from your teens and 80% of adults carry a dormant virus silently hijacking their immune capacity.

In this episode, Lisa dives into the Immunosenescence Paradox: why aging makes your body less effective at fighting infections while simultaneously driving chronic inflammation (inflammaging). She also uncovers the CMV Factor - a silent virus carried by roughly 80% of adults that "occupies" your immune system's resources, leaving you increasingly vulnerable to new threats.

What you'll learn in this episode:

  • What immunosenescence is and why it accelerates faster than most people expect
  • How your thymus gland deteriorates and what that means for T-cell production
  • The CMV Factor: how cytomegalovirus silently depletes your immune reserves
  • Why aging triggers more inflammation, not less — the inflammaging paradox
  • Four actionable strategies to slow and reverse immune decline
  • The role of colostrum, carnosic acid, and New Zealand-grown kawakawa in immune rebuilding
  • Which blood markers reveal your true immune age

Resources mentioned:

🔬 Shop Rejuvenate Pro: Rejuvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

📋 Your Health Compass (health risk assessment): yourhealthcompass.org

📰 Free Longevity Cheat Sheet — subscribe at Longevity Cheat Sheet

📚 Healthspan Hacks Course: Health Span Hacks Course

Related episodes:

Reverse Aging Naturally with Dr Rod Claycomb

Dr Elizabeth Yurth on Immune Aging and How to Reverse It

🧬 Know your health risks before they become problems

Your Health Compass: 11 Health Screenings. 10 Minutes. Zero Guesswork

Your Health Compass gives you 11 clinically validated health screenings in about 10 minutes — covering diabetes, autoimmune conditions, brain health, cancer risk, mental health, and more.

No blood tests. No doctor's visit. No waiting.

Just science-backed questionnaires used in real medical research — now available to you for a one-time $19 payment.

✓ Instant personalised risk scores

✓ Downloadable report you can share with your doctor

✓ 100% private — your data never leaves your browser

Stop wondering "should I be worried about this?" and start knowing where to focus your prevention efforts.

→ Take the assessment now at: yourhealthcompass.org

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Join us for an in-depth conversation with Paul McArthur and Daniel Reid from BitKiwi, New Zealand's premier Bitcoin community organisation. Discover their journey into Bitcoin, the growth of crypto adoption in NZ, and what the future holds for digital currency in our nation.

Topics Covered:

  • Bitcoin's role as a store of value vs medium of exchange
  • Currency debasement and the decline of fiat money
  • Lightning Network and Layer 2 scaling solutions
  • Bitcoin taxation challenges and de minimis exemption proposals
  • Institutional adoption: BlackRock, JP Morgan, and the changing landscape
  • Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) vs Bitcoin
  • The K-shaped economy and inflation's impact on savings
  • Bitcoin's comparison to the internet revolution
  • Stablecoins and their role in crypto adoption

Whether you're a Bitcoin beginner or seasoned holder, this conversation offers valuable insights into the current state and future potential of Bitcoin in New Zealand and globally.

About the founders:

Paul McArthur: better known in the New Zealand Bitcoin community as Bitkiwi Paul, is a passionate advocate for Bitcoin adoption in New Zealand. Paul is a co-founder of Bitkiwi, the grassroots movement behind New Zealand's premier Bitcoin event. Paul is also a co-founder of Orange Pages, a Bitcoin-focused marketplace project designed to connect buyers and sellers within the Kiwi Bitcoin community, making it easier to trade goods, services, and value using Bitcoin. Paul is a Bitcoin expert with a deep passion for Bitcoin education, regularly sharing knowledge to help onboard and empower individuals and businesses in the space. Professionally, Paul is an IT programmes and projects consultant, bringing proven expertise in project delivery, strategic implementation, and technology management to the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Daniel Reid: better known in the Bitcoin community as Bitkiwi Dan (@satstothemoon), is a passionate advocate for Bitcoin adoption in New Zealand. Dan is a co-founder of Bitkiwi, the grassroots movement behind New Zealand's premier Bitcoin event. Dan is also a co-founder of Orange Pages, a Bitcoin-focused marketplace project designed to connect buyers and sellers within the Kiwi Bitcoin community, making it easier to trade goods, services, and value using Bitcoin. Dan is also a dedicated home miner, using the heat generated from his Bitcoin mining setup to efficiently heat his home during New Zealand winters and warm his pool in summer. Professionally, Dan is a Chartered Accountant (CA) and a chartered member of the Institute of Directors, bringing financial expertise and governance insight to the Bitcoin eco space.

Connect with BITKIWI:

Website: Kiwi BitCoin Guide

X: @BitKiwi1

Learn about Bitcoin Policy New Zealand's initiatives and how you can get involved in the Bitcoin community across New Zealand.

Upcoming BITKIWI Events:

BitKiwi 15 - Christchurch: March 7th (featuring Francisco Colombo)

BitKiwi 16 - Auckland: July 20th

BitKiwi 17 - Wellington: October

🧬 Know your health risks before they become problems

Your Health Compass: 11 Health Screenings. 10 Minutes. Zero Guesswork

Your Health Compass gives you 11 clinically validated health screenings in about 10 minutes — covering diabetes, autoimmune conditions, brain health, cancer risk, mental health, and more.

No blood tests. No doctor's visit. No waiting.

Just science-backed questionnaires used in real medical research — now available to you for a one-time $19 payment.

✓ Instant personalised risk scores

✓ Downloadable report you can share with your doctor

✓ 100% private — your data never leaves your browser

Stop wondering "should I be worried about this?" and start knowing where to focus your prevention efforts.

→ Take the assessment now at: yourhealthcompass.org

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

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In this groundbreaking episode of Pushing the Limits, we sit down with Christian Drapeau, MSc - stem cell scientist, author of Cracking the Stem Cell Code, and founder & Chief Science Officer of the regenerative health company Stemregen.

Christian shares his 25-plus years of pioneering research into stem cells and regenerative biology, beginning with his revolutionary idea that stem cells are the body's innate repair system, not just a medical oddity studied in labs.

What We Discuss in This Episode

The History of Stem Cell Science:

  • How Christian's early neurophysiology work led him to explore blue-green algae (Aphanizomenon flos-aquae) and its surprising effects on immune health.
  • Early hypotheses and lab studies that showed certain natural compounds actually increase circulating stem cells, kick-starting the idea of Endogenous Stem Cell Mobilization (ESCM).

The Quest for Natural Stem Cell Mobilisers:

  • Christian's global travels to find powerful plant medicines used in traditional cultures, from Madagascar's Aloe macroclada to sea buckthorn from the Tibetan plateau, and how these botanicals can increase stem cell circulation by as much as 80%.

Stemregen Science & Products:

  • We unpack Christian's work validating that increasing your own stem cells in circulation can support tissue repair, healthy aging, and whole-body regeneration, hitting at the heart of why so many chronic conditions persist.

What the Stemregen Protocol includes:

  • STEMREGEN Release — designed to support your body's natural release and migration of stem cells.
  • Stemregen Mobilise — supports stem cell delivery by improving microcirculation and capillary health.
  • Stemregen Signal — enhances cellular communication so stem cells can navigate to where they're needed most.

Incredible Cases & Stories:

  • Christian highlights compelling real-world cases showing how enhancing stem cell circulation supports recovery, improved vitality, and quality of life, not by treating symptoms, but by strengthening the body's own repair system.

Stem Cell Therapies: Pros & Cons

  • We also dive into conventional stem cell therapies (umbilical, adult stem cells, exosomes), contrasting them with the natural approach Christian advocates, including safety, effectiveness, and longevity implications.

Why We Age: A New Perspective

  • Christian previews his upcoming book on aging - reframing aging as a balance between repair vs. regeneration speed, and what practical lifestyle and botanical strategies can help tip the scales towards regeneration.

🔗 Links & Resources

👉 Buy Stemregen Release and support your body's natural repair system: STEMREGEN - Release

👉 Christian Drapeau's Book: Cracking the Stem Cell Code - explore the science and history of how stem cells shape health and wellness.

👉 Learn about the history of Stemregen: The Birth of STEMREGEN

👉 Stemregen Whitepapers can be found here

Christian's Bio:

Christian Drapeau is a scientist, author, medicinal plant expert, and pioneer in the field of stem cell research. He holds a graduate degree in Neurophysiology and has been involved in medical research for 30+ years, with the last 20 specifically dedicated to stem cells. He pioneered the understanding that stem cells constitute the body's natural healing and repair system, and has traveled the world in search of the most powerful plants that support stem cell function and enhance the body's regenerative potential. Having lectured in 50+ countries and written 5 books - including the best-selling Cracking the Stem Cell Code - as well as dozens of published scientific papers on brain research and Endogenous Stem Cell Mobilization, Drapeau is known by scientists, physicians, and biohackers alike as an expert and pioneer of his field. A scientific advisor to many companies, he is currently the Founder and Chief Science Officer at STEMREGEN, where he developed the most potent natural stem cell supplement.

Connect with Christian:

Websites:

https://www.stemregen.co/

https://www.christiandrapeau.com/

Social sites:

Stemregen Instagram

Christian's Instagram

Christian's TikTok

Stemergen Facebook

Christian's Linktree

The latest Conversations Unplugged – short interviews with other leaders in the industry.

🧬 Know your health risks before they become problems

Your Health Compass: 11 Health Screenings. 10 Minutes. Zero Guesswork

Your Health Compass gives you 11 clinically validated health screenings in about 10 minutes — covering diabetes, autoimmune conditions, brain health, cancer risk, mental health, and more.

No blood tests. No doctor's visit. No waiting.

Just science-backed questionnaires used in real medical research — now available to you for a one-time $19 payment.

✓ Instant personalised risk scores

✓ Downloadable report you can share with your doctor

✓ 100% private — your data never leaves your browser

Stop wondering "should I be worried about this?" and start knowing where to focus your prevention efforts.

→ Take the assessment now at: yourhealthcompass.org

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

What if you could detect early warning signs of serious health conditions in just minutes, from the comfort of your own home?

Download Your Health Compass Assessment Tool: https://yourhealthcompass.org

In this groundbreaking episode, longevity expert Lisa Tamati unveils the revolutionary Health Compass App - a privacy-focused wellness tool that empowers you to take control of your health destiny through evidence-based questionnaires and self-assessment.

Forget expensive tests and lengthy doctor visits. This simple yet powerful app uses validated public health data to flag early indicators for conditions that matter most, putting the power of health awareness directly in your hands.

In this episode, we explore:

  • How the Health Compass App works: simple yes/no questionnaires based on symptoms and risk factors

  • Early detection insights for Parkinson's, Diabetes, Alzheimer's, Cancer (Prostate & Breast), Multiple Sclerosis, Lupus, Asthma, Anxiety, and Depression

  • Why privacy matters: non-personalised summaries that respect your data sovereignty

  • The difference between empowering insights and medical diagnostics
  • How this tool fits into your biohacking and peak performance toolkit
  • Self-sovereign health: taking charge without compromising your privacy
  • When and why to consult healthcare professionals based on your results
  • The future of personalised health assessment technology

Whether you're deep into biohacking, focused on peak performance, or simply want to stay ahead of potential health issues, this app becomes your companion for proactive, self-directed wellness.

Lisa breaks down exactly how to use this tool effectively and why early awareness - not diagnosis - can be your most powerful health asset.

Ready to take control of your health compass?

🧭 Download Your Health Compass Assessment Tool: https://yourhealthcompass.org

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

What happens when the medical system tells you "there's nothing more we can do" - and you refuse to accept it?

In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, I sit down with Dr. Aaron Hartman, family physician turned functional medicine specialist, whose entire medical philosophy changed after his adopted daughter Anna was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and given a hopeless prognosis.

Despite being a doctor himself, Aaron watched specialist after specialist offer only medications, surgery, and limitations. But when he and his wife pursued a functional medicine approach - focusing on nutrition, nutrient deficiencies, fatty acids, hormones, and root-cause testing, Anna began to thrive against all odds.

In this episode, we explore:

  • The blind spots in the current medical model
  • Why it takes 30 years for research to reach standard care
  • How siloed, symptom-based medicine fails complex patients
  • The power of never giving up, even after devastating diagnoses
  • Why functional medicine focuses on connecting the dots, not chasing symptoms
  • Testing that actually matters: nutrients, fatty acids, organic acids, hormones & more
  • Overtraining, POTS, dysautonomia, hypermobility, and athlete burnout
  • Why recovery, minerals, amino acids, and food-as-medicine are non-negotiable
  • The role of omega-3 and omega-6 balance in inflammation and resilience

Dr. Hartman is now the go-to doctor for complex and "uncurable" cases in Central Virginia, helping patients who have fallen through the cracks of conventional care reclaim their health and vitality.

We also discuss his new book UnCurable: From Hopeless Diagnosis to Defying All Odds A moving account of his daughter's story and the transformation of his medical practice.

If you've ever been told "this is just how it is", this conversation will change how you see your body, your health, and what's truly possible.

Dr. Hartman's Bio:

Dr. Aaron Hartman's functional medicine journey began when traditional healthcare failed Anna, his adopted daughter with cerebral palsy. Despite being a physician, he felt helpless as specialists offered no solutions, only surgery and medications.

Witnessing his daughter's impossible transformation shattered everything Dr. Hartman believed about medicine. This transformed his entire practice of medicine and now he's become the doctor to turn to when all others have given up. He now helps patients reclaim their lives when conventional medicine says "there's nothing more we can do."

His new book, "UnCurable: From Hopeless Diagnosis to Defying All Odds," chronicles this transformation. A clinical researcher involved in 70+ studies and VCU Assistant Clinical Professor, he founded Richmond Integrative and Functional Medicine in 2016.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Are you over 40 or 50 and struggling with belly fat, low energy, stubborn weight gain, and being told "it's just your age"? I'm here to tell you - that is absolute rubbish.

I'm 57 years old, with visible abs, balanced hormones, high energy, low inflammation, and I train 85% less than when I was running ultra-marathons. This video reveals the exact science-based blueprint I used to transform my body — and how you can do it too.

After decades battling eating disorders, hormone chaos, inflammation, and even gaining weight while running 52 marathons in 42 days, everything changed when I discovered genetics, epigenetics, functional medicine, and immune ageing.

In this video, you'll learn:

  • Why long cardio makes menopause belly fat worse
  • The hormone shifts after 50 that change everything
  • Why inflammation (not calories) controls fat loss
  • The tests every woman over 40 should get
  • How to build muscle and boost metabolism after 50
  • How to fix insulin resistance, the key to visible abs
  • Why cortisol and stress block fat loss
  • The toxins ("obesogens") that keep fat cells locked
  • How personalised genetics create predictable results

Topics Covered:

  • Hormonal balance and belly fat after menopause
  • Metabolism optimisation and reversing aging
  • Inflammation, immune system ageing, and weight gain
  • Insulin resistance and cortisol management over 50
  • Strength training and building muscle after menopause
  • Longevity and biohacking for women 50+
  • Functional medicine and epigenetics in fat loss
  • Healthy ageing strategies for women

At 57, I have better health, fitness, skin, and energy than I did in my 20s — not because of luck, but because of science that works for real women after 50.

If you want your own personalised blueprint, reach out at support@lisatamati.com

You are NOT too old. Your best body is NOT behind you.

Let's redefine what's possible!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Join host Lisa as she dives deep with Chartered Financial Analyst Cern Basher from Brilliant Adviceon Tesla's cutting-edge innovations, Elon Musk's bold visions for space tech and AI, MicroStrategy's Bitcoin treasury plays, and the evolving world of finance in an energy-based economy. From factory tours to market volatility, get insider insights on investing in Tesla, Bitcoin, NVIDIA, and more.

Don't miss this timely discussion on automation's societal impacts, free speech via X (formerly Twitter), and the race for AI supremacy.

Guest Bio:

Cern Basher is a Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) at Brilliant Advice, specializing in investment strategies, Bitcoin, and emerging tech. With a growing online presence, Cern shares expert insights on financial markets and innovation.

Connect with Cern:

Website: Brilliant Advice

X: Cern Basher

Youtube: Cern Basher

📈 Start your crypto journey today:

Get started with Bitcoin confidently with our 1 on 1 coaching - learn security basics and let us hold your hand through the start of your journey.

👉 Email us at: support@lisatamati.com to find out how we can help you!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

The Bitcoin payment revolution is here and it's changing how the world moves money.

In this episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with Dr. Simon Collins, Co-Founder and Chief Revenue Officer of Lightning Pay NZ, a pioneering Kiwi startup making Bitcoin payments faster, cheaper, and more accessible through the Lightning Network.

Simon shares his insights on the evolving world of Bitcoin, from the future of payment systems and scaling, to mining energy debates, New Zealand's crypto tax rules, and how Bitcoin is reshaping the global financial system.

Whether you're a Bitcoin veteran, a business owner, or just curious about digital money, this deep dive covers the technology, economics, and policy behind the next generation of payments.

What You'll Learn:

  • Bitcoin Payment Systems & Scaling: How Lightning Pay uses the Lightning Network to enable instant, low-cost Bitcoin transactions and solve Bitcoin's base layer limitations
  • Bitcoin vs. Other Cryptocurrencies: Why Bitcoin's decentralisation, fixed supply, and proof-of-work make it unique in the crypto ecosystem.
  • Bitcoin Mining & Energy Use: The real story behind mining energy - renewables, stranded power, and how Bitcoin can drive green innovation.
  • Mining Centralisation: Why the network remains decentralised despite large mining pools and how geographic shifts (e.g., post-China) enhance security.
  • The Future of Payments: How Lightning Pay is helping New Zealand merchants accept Bitcoin seamlessly with instant fiat conversions and zero volatility risk.
  • Bitcoin & Taxes in NZ: Simon explains how the IRD treats Bitcoin profits, GST rules, and what compliance means for individuals and businesses.
  • Bitcoin Policy Institute: Why sound Bitcoin policy matters and how organisations like BPI are shaping global conversations on regulation and innovation.

Simon Collins Bio:

Dr. Simon Collins, PhD, is the Co-Founder and CRO of Lightning Pay, a New Zealand-based company building scalable Bitcoin payment infrastructure on the Lightning Network. Co-founded with Rob Clarkson and Brandon Bucher, Lightning Pay is revolutionising how Kiwis use Bitcoin for real-world payments. Simon is also a Bitcoin researcher and advocate, contributing to organisations like Satoshi Action and the Bitcoin Policy Institute, and frequently shares insights on X about Bitcoin's role in the global economy.

Catch up on the episode with Brandon Bucher here: Building the Future of Bitcoin Payments

Resources & Links:

  • Lightning Pay NZ Website
  • Simon Collins on X
  • Bitcoin Policy Institute
  • IRD Crypto Guidance

📈 Start your crypto journey today:

Get started with Bitcoin confidently with our 1 on 1 coaching - learn security basics and let us hold your hand through the start of your journey.

👉 Email us at: support@lisatamati.com to find out how we can help you!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode Lisa Tamati and Dr. Elizabeth Yurth dive deep into immunosenescence, the ageing of the immune system, and how it drives age-related diseases like cancer, infections, and chronic inflammation. They discuss the development of Rejuvenate Pro, a formulation inspired by Lisa's efforts to support her ageing mother's complex health issues.

The episode explores the science behind immune decline, key biomarkers, and how Rejuvenate Pro's ingredients target root causes for better longevity.

Key themes include:

  • Gut-immune connections
  • Mitochondrial impacts
  • Stem cell activation
  • Practical applications for clinicians and patients.

Resources Mentioned:

  • 1000 Immunomes Project (Buck Institute)
  • Dr. David Furman Interviews
  • Dr. Rod Claycomb Podcasts
  • Aevum Labs Research Papers
  • Rejuvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram ad YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Join host Lisa as she chats with Dr. Elizabeth Harris from Brain Health and Biofeedback about her journey from traditional medicine to holistic brain health. Discover links between dental health and wellness, treatments like plasmalogens and CO2 optimisation, and advanced tech such as CVAC and NeuroField.

Perfect for those battling post-concussion syndrome, long COVID, POTS, Thyroid, Gut problems or chronic health issues, plus plans for New Zealand clinics!

Connect with Dr. Harris:

Website: Brain Health and Biofeedback

For more episodes like this one with Dr. Harris's check out these episodes:

Dr. Mark Gordon - Hormones, Brain Injuries, And Neuroinflammation

Dr. Dale Bredesen - How to Prevent and Reverse Alzheimers & Neurodegeneration

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we sit down with Thomas Kranzle, aka TradeApologist, a macro-minded swing trader obsessed with charts and disruptive assets. Tom breaks down complex markets into actionable insights, blending technical analysis, fundamentals, and psychology to help traders navigate equities like Tesla and Robinhood, and crypto such as Bitcoin and Solana. We dive into recent market volatility, including the massive dip triggered by Trump's tariff tweet on China, and explore how an athlete's mindset translates to business and trading success.

Whether you're a beginner setting up your TradingView or an experienced trader looking to remove emotions from decisions, Tom's journey from video production to full-time trading offers inspiration on achieving financial freedom.

Connect Thomas:

YouTube: youtube.com/@TradingApologist

Patreon: Patreon.com/TradingApologist

X (Twitter): x.com/TradeApologist

📈 Start your crypto journey today:

Get started with Bitcoin confidently with our 1 on 1 coaching - learn security basics and let us hold your hand through the start of your journey.

👉 Email us at: support@lisatamati.com to find out how we can help you!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with Brandon Bucher, the visionary CEO of Lightning Pay NZ, a company pioneering Bitcoin payment infrastructure and merchant solutions in New Zealand.

Brandon shares his personal Bitcoin journey, what drew him into the ecosystem, and why he's deeply passionate about financial freedom, self-sovereignty, and decentralized money. Together, we unpack the macro forces shaping our economic landscape — from inflation and debt-driven systems to currency debasement and money printing — and why Bitcoin represents a viable alternative.

We also dive into how the Lightning Network (Bitcoin's layer-two scaling solution) is enabling instant, low-cost payments, helping Bitcoin evolve from a "store of value" into a true medium of exchange. Brandon explains why layer-two and layer-three infrastructure are critical for scalability, usability, and global adoption — and how Lightning Pay NZ is making this future a reality for businesses and consumers alike.

If you care about sound money, digital freedom, and building a fairer financial system, this episode will inspire you to rethink what money really means in the 21st century.

Topics We Cover:

  • Brandon's journey into Bitcoin and the Lightning ecosystem
  • Why Bitcoin matters in an age of debt, inflation, and fiat instability
  • The role of layer-two solutions like Lightning Network
  • Why Bitcoin's base layer prioritizes decentralization and security — and can't scale alone
  • How Lightning Pay NZ is helping merchants accept Bitcoin easily
  • How Lightning Pay acts as both a Bitcoin exchange and POS (point-of-sale) system for real-world payments
  • The macro outlook for global finance and how Bitcoin fits into it
  • The philosophy of financial self-sovereignty and trustless systems

Connect with Brandon:

Website: Lightning Pay NZ

X (Twitter): @BTCNautilus

Learn More:

Check out Lightning Pay NZ, a payment gateway and exchange making it easy for New Zealand businesses to accept Bitcoin instantly using the Lightning Network, convert it to NZD if desired, and integrate seamlessly into existing POS systems.

Brandon Bucher Bio:

Brandon is a veteran product leader and a long time bitcoin enthusiast and now Co-Founder and CEO at Lightning Pay, a New Zealand based bitcoin-only financial services company. Brandon is passionate about shepherding in the emergence of bitcoin from its current reputation as a speculative investment asset to its rightful place as better money, used for saving, investment, borrowing and spending.

📈 Start your crypto journey today:

Get started with Bitcoin confidently with our 1 on 1 coaching - learn security basics and let us hold your hand through the start of your journey.

👉 Email us at: support@lisatamati.com to find out how we can help you!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

AI is not just hype, it's the next economic revolution. In this solo episode, we break down the game-changing insights of Jordi Visser, macro investor and founder of @VisserLabs, as he unpacks how AI is reshaping global markets, jobs, and the financial system.

We'll explore why AI is driving trillions in new capital investment, how it's changing labor markets, and why Bitcoin (BTC) may be the "purest AI investment play." Plus, I share my real-world experiences using AI agents, n8n workflows, and automation tools to streamline work and build new digital products.

Key Takeaways

  • Jordi Visser says betting against AI = betting against innovation.
  • $500B+ in AI infrastructure investment coming by 2026.
  • Bitcoin could be the ultimate AI hedge.
  • Massive white-collar job disruption ahead — but also opportunity.
  • AI empowers entrepreneurs to build products and income streams rapidly.

Jordi's Substack: Substack/@visserlabs

Visser Labs YouTube Channel: YouYube/@visserlabs

Jordi Visser Bio:

With over 30 years of Wall Street expertise in traditional finance and macroeconomics, I guide you through the evolving landscape of investments, from conventional assets to cryptocurrencies and AI-driven technologies.

📈 Start your crypto journey today:

Get started with Bitcoin confidently with our 1 on 1 coaching - learn security basics and let us hold your hand through the start of your journey.

👉 Email us at: support@lisatamati.com to find out how we can help you!

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code "tamati" to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this powerful episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with visionary entrepreneur, Bitcoin OG, and author of The Price of Tomorrow — Jeff Booth.

Jeff shares his profound insights on why our current financial system is breaking under the weight of exponential technological deflation and debt-driven inflation, and why Bitcoin offers not just an alternative — but a path toward hope, truth, and sovereignty.

Together, they explore how exponential technology is rewriting the rules of economics, why central banks can’t stop printing without collapse, and what a deflationary future built on sound money could mean for humanity’s evolution.

Booth’s clarity on macroeconomics, human nature, and the moral imperative of Bitcoin offers a deeply philosophical — yet practical — roadmap for navigating the coming decade.

If you’ve ever wondered how innovation, integrity, and decentralised systems intersect to redefine the future of money and freedom, this episode is essential listening.

Jeff Booth Bio:

Jeff Booth is a visionary leader, technology entrepreneur and best-selling author of The Price of Tomorrow – Why Deflation is Key to an Abundant Future. With his expertise in technology, system thinking and design, he is at the forefront of a transition from an economic system built for the past, and one built for the future.

Jeff has been featured in Forbes, TechCrunch, Inc.com, The Globe and Mail, BNN, Fast Company, Entrepreneur, Bloomberg, TIME, and The Wall Street Journal.

In 2015, he was named BC Technology Industry Association’s (BCTIA) Person of the Year, and in 2016 Goldman Sachs named him among its 100 Most Intriguing Entrepreneurs. He is a Founding Partner of Ego Death Capital, Co-Founder of addy and NocNoc. He has been a Young Presidents Organization member since 2004 and contributes time as a Founding Fellow at the Creative Destruction Lab. Jeff currently sits on the boards of Core Scientific, Scoop Solar, Fedi and Breez.

Connect with Jeff:

Website: Jeff Booth

Ego Death Capital Company: Ego Death Capital

Get The Price of Tomorrow: The Price of Tomorrow - Jeff Booth

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, I sit down with Reed Davis, founder of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition® (FDN), to explore how we can stop chasing symptoms and instead focus on the root causes of chronic health issues.

Reed shares his journey from working in a wellness clinic to creating FDN, a pioneering system that combines functional lab testing with lifestyle protocols to help practitioners and clients uncover hidden stressors, heal dysfunctions, and restore vitality.

We dive into:

  • The difference between conventional medicine and functional diagnostics
  • Why lab testing is essential for uncovering hidden stressors
  • The H.I.D.D.E.N. stressors model (hormones, immunity, digestion, detoxification, energy, nervous system)
  • How FDN practitioners approach complex health challenges
  • Reed’s advice for anyone struggling with fatigue, gut issues, hormone imbalances, or unexplained symptoms
  • The future of health coaching, lab testing, and functional medicine

Whether you’re a health professional looking to expand your toolkit or someone who wants to take charge of your own healing, this conversation will give you a roadmap to better health.

Learn more about Functional Diagnostic Nutrition: https://www.functionaldiagnosticnutrition.com/

Reed Davis Bio:

Reed Davis, Double-Board Certified Holistic Health Practitioner (HHP) and Doctor of Nutritional Therapy (DNT), is a globally recognized expert in functional lab testing and holistic lifestyle medicine. As the visionary founder of Functional Diagnostic Nutrition® (FDN), Reed has pioneered the FDN Certification Course, which has empowered over 5,000 practitioners across 50 countries to take charge of their clients' health. With more than a decade of experience as Health Director at a Southern California wellness center, Reed personally guided over 10,000 clients to optimal wellness, giving him the experience and foundational knowledge needed to teach others to build their own health careers.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, I sit down with naturopathic doctor Dr. Vanessa Ingraham to dive deep into the fascinating world of circadian rhythm biology, the science of how our internal clocks govern everything from hormones to immunity, metabolism, and brain health.

We explore:

  • Why circadian rhythms are central to health and longevity
  • How light exposure in the morning and evening impacts hormones and sleep
  • The links between disrupted circadian rhythms and chronic disease
  • Practical strategies to realign your body clock (sleep hygiene, light management, meal timing, stress reduction)
  • How circadian biology connects to immunity, gut health, and inflammation
  • The role of circadian optimization in aging and longevity strategies

Dr. Vanessa brings both scientific depth and practical wisdom, making this conversation valuable for anyone who wants to improve energy, resilience, and long-term health through better alignment with nature’s rhythms.

Learn more about Dr. Vanessa: https://www.drvanessa.life

Dr. Vanessa Ingraham Bio:

Dr. Vanessa Ingraham is a naturopathic physician with over 15 years of experience in integrative oncology and metabolic medicine. After co-founding Pure Health Bahamas, where she supported women through breast cancer with integrative protocols, she moved to New Zealand to formulate products for Nutrient Rescue NZ and later founded Bloom Integrative Health, a multidisciplinary clinic for women navigating hormonal challenges and chronic disease.

Today, Vanessa works online from her home in Piha on Auckland’s wild west coast, guiding clients worldwide. Her approach blends nutrition, biohacking, mitochondrial optimization, circadian biology, and biophysics; exploring how light, water, and electromagnetic forces shape health at the cellular level.

Grounded in her own daily practice of sunrise yoga, time in the bush, and regular ocean swims, she helps people build resilience and overcome chronic disease by aligning cutting-edge science with the timeless laws of nature.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 800 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Check out Lisa's Biotech Company Aevum Labs and shop their groundbreaking Longevity, Immune and gut formulation Rejuvenate Pro

https://shop.lisatamati.com/pages/rejuvenate

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

This week on Pushing the Limits, Lisa sits down with performance coach Ben Brown (BodySystems) to unpack the mindset and behavioral design that turn health intentions into daily execution. If you’ve ever felt that motivation is fickle and life is too busy to train, this conversation reframes the problem: it’s not you, it’s your systems.

What you’ll learn

  • Systems > willpower: How to engineer your environment so healthy choices become default.
  • Keystone habits: The 20% that drives 80% of results - sleep anchors, protein targets, steps, and strength.
  • Behaviour loops & identity: Using cue → routine → reward and identity statements to cement new patterns.
  • Time-efficient training: Minimum effective dose programming for busy professionals.
  • Nutrition, simplified: Protein forward meals, satiety, meal structure, and weekend-proof planning.
  • Stress & recovery: Why sleep outranks supplements; practical ways to down-shift sympathetic overdrive.
  • Relapse planning: How to bounce back fast after travel, illness, or deadlines.
  • From goals to calendars: Turning outcomes into calendarised actions and micro-commitments.

Share this episode with someone who’s “too busy” to be healthy and help them build a system that works in real life.

Resources & links

  • Ben Brown: Body Systems
  • Follow Lisa at: lisatamati.com | YouTube: @Lisa_Tamati

Ben Brown Bio:

Ben Brown is the founder of Body Systems, a global health and nutrition coaching company behind the revolutionary PrimeFit OS™, a system that has helped clients lose over 15,000 pounds and reclaim their lives. With more than two decades of experience, he has coached Fortune 500 executives, professional athletes, and organizations like the Golden State Warriors, Arizona Diamondbacks, and Arizona Cardinals, along with thousands of driven men and women seeking sustainable health solutions.

Holding dual master’s degrees in Exercise & Wellness and Clinical Nutrition, Ben also serves as adjunct faculty in the Health Sciences Department at Arizona State University. His coaching programs integrate the science of real-world data, the psychology of behavior change, and the art of coaching to deliver lasting results.

A husband and father of three, Ben blends his personal and professional experience to help clients unlock the energy, confidence, and health freedom they need to lead powerfully—without restrictive diets or unsustainable habits.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with Cern Basher, financial analyst and commentator, to explore how Elon Musk’s companies are not just reshaping industries but also driving us toward an entirely new economic and technological system.

We break down Tesla’s disruptive role in the automotive and energy sectors, SpaceX’s transformation of space access, and how Musk’s broader ecosystem, including Starlink, Neuralink, and The Boring Company, represents a coordinated push to re-engineer our future infrastructure.

Cern explains how these companies function as a parallel system, shifting us from legacy industries and centralised control toward decentralised, tech-driven frameworks.

We also explore:

  • Tesla’s market dominance and its implications for energy sovereignty
  • SpaceX and the geopolitics of global satellite communication
  • The Musk “ecosystem effect”, how each company feeds into the other
  • The financial, cultural, and political risks that accompany these transitions
  • How investors and everyday people can position themselves in this shift

If you want to understand how the Musk industry empire is changing the way we live, work, and build wealth, this conversation is for you.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Looking for answers on how to detox spike protein and recover from lingering health challenges after infection or vaccination? In this exclusive interview, Dr Tina Peers shares the science and clinical experience behind Augmented NAC— a breakthrough supplement developed through the Zero Spike Project.

Unlike standard NAC (N-acetyl cysteine), which is well-known as a precursor to glutathione, Augmented NAC is quantum-enhanced to dramatically increase its potency. Early research suggests it may be able to neutralize spike proteinfar more effectively than regular NAC, helping support recovery from Long COVID, MCAS (mast cell activation syndrome), and post-vaccine syndromes.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • How spike protein lingers in the body and disrupts immune, hormonal, and neurological function
  • Why NAC vs Augmented NAC is such an important difference for patient outcomes
  • How Augmented NAC boosts glutathione and supports detox pathways
  • The role of this supplement in Long COVID natural treatment and MCAS natural therapy
  • What Dr Tina Peers has seen in clinic — from improved energy and focus to reduced inflammation
  • Practical spike protein detox supplement protocols and dosing strategies
  • How the Zero Spike Project is raising awareness and providing new solutions for global health

Whether you’re seeking a natural approach for post-vaccine detox supplement support, dealing with the lingering effects of Long COVID, or exploring ways to restore immune balance and resilience, this conversation is a must-listen.

  • Learn more or to get your Augmented NAC (international) - for a discount use code: YS52GH7W at check out.

  • For New Zealanders get your Augmented NAC using my referral link and put in code to free shipping and extra $10 off per bottle when you order 4 or more. Use Code "Tamati" at www.augmentednac.co.nz

If you’re navigating persistent post-viral symptoms or looking to strengthen your body’s defenses, this episode is essential viewing or reach out to work with Lisa at support@lisatamati.com

Telegram channel https://t.me/+rP7Li9K2mn4wZjM0

ZeroSpike Blog https://zerospike.org/en/blog/

ZeroSpike X account https://x.com/ZeroSpike_

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Today I’m joined by Cern Basher, CFA, a financial analyst with Brilliant Advice. Cern recently delivered a compelling presentation on Bitcoin as a transformative asset class.

In this episode, we dive into his key insights:

  • Why Bitcoin matters now – inflation, monetary debasement, and sovereign debt crises.
  • The “Black Hole” thesis – why capital may be inexorably pulled into Bitcoin.
  • Bitcoin vs. gold, bonds, and equities – comparative risk/reward outlooks.
  • Institutional adoption – the shift in pensions, hedge funds, and sovereign wealth.
  • Price cycles & volatility – what the data shows about past and future halving cycles.
  • Macro backdrop – the dollar system, global liquidity crunches, and why Bitcoin stands apart.
  • Risks & criticisms – volatility, regulation,
  • Why you need to study Bitcoin in depth and not just for the financial investment side of the story
  • Come for the money stay for the revolution: Why Bitcoin is more than a good place to park your money

Whether you’re new to Bitcoin or just starting your learning journey or you are a hardcore Bitcoiner, a cautious investor, or simply curious about the future of money, this conversation offers clarity from a financial analyst’s perspective.

Connect with Cern:

Brilliant Advice website: https://www.brilliantadvice.net/

X: X.com @cernbasher

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this thought-provoking conversation, Lisa Tamati sits down with Luke Kemeys, chartered accountant, financial educator, and host of the Keep the Change podcast, to unpack the pressing financial realities facing New Zealanders today. From inflation and the housing crisis to the broken monetary system and the concentration of wealth, they explore why Kiwis can no longer rely on government fixes or property alone to secure their financial futures.

Lisa and Luke share their personal journeys toward financial literacy, their experiences with cryptocurrency, the importance of asset tracking, and why personal responsibility is the cornerstone of both health and wealth. They also discuss AI disruption, investment strategies that outpace inflation, and the dangers of consumer debt culture.

If you want to understand where the NZ economy is headed, how to protect yourself from currency debasement, and why wealth building starts with mindset, this conversation is packed with real-world insights you can apply today.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why inflation and the broken monetary system are squeezing NZ’s middle class
  • How to track your assets and liabilities to build lasting wealth
  • The role of AI in disrupting industries — and how to adapt
  • Strategies for investing to outpace inflation, even on a fixed income
  • The parallels between health sovereignty and financial sovereignty
  • Cryptocurrency risks, Bitcoin philosophy, and lessons learned
  • Why minimalism and self-reliance are key to financial freedom
  • How marketing manipulation fuels debt and consumerism
  • Practical steps for creating emergency funds and diversifying assets

About Luke: Luke Kemeys is a sought-after speaker in the business and financial world, known for his straight-talking, no-nonsense approach. A Fellow Chartered Accountant and award-winning business advisor at nextAdvisory, Luke speaks regularly to business owners about leveling up their finances and to teams about taking control of their financial future. Drawing from real-world insights, both from clients who succeed and those who fall short, he challenges conventional thinking and forces audiences to confront the financial realities they might be avoiding.

As host of Keep The Change, one of New Zealand’s top-rated financial literacy podcasts, Luke is on a mission to educate 100,000 everyday Kiwis about money in a way that’s relevant, relatable, and refreshingly honest.

Be prepared to have your financial beliefs tested. Be ready to walk away with real, actionable insights. And don’t hold back in the Q&A, Luke never does.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

A single gene that reverses ageing by over 13 years without activating pluripotency or cancer risk?

Shift Bioscience may have cracked the code with SB000, an AI-discovered gene that could revolutionise how we approach ageing, rejuvenation, and gene therapy. In this detailed breakdown, Lisa Tamati, longevity coach, biohacker, and host of the Longevity & Lifestyle podcast Pushing The Limits, explores how SB000 was discovered using cutting-edge AI and transcriptomic ageing clocks, what it actually does at the cellular level, and what this means for the future of safe, targeted anti-aging interventions.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

  • How cell age reversal has become a real possibility
  • Why Yamanaka factors (OSKM) carry cancer risk
  • How Shift Bioscience used AI to simulate 562 million gene combinations
  • What makes SB000 unique as a “transcriptomic rejuvenator”
  • The therapeutic potential of SB000 in reversing ageing safely
  • Why this matters for the future of biohacking, longevity science, and gene therapy

Visit Shift Biosciences to learn more about this study: https://www.shiftbioscience.com/

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

Join Lisa Tamati in a comprehensive discussion with Paul Quickenden, CIO of Easy Crypto NZ, as they explore the intersection of crypto, AI, and blockchain technology. Discover insights into blockchain adoption, the impact of AI on decentralized systems, the development of the NZ Digital Dollar (NZDD), stablecoins, and practical business opportunities in the evolving digital landscape. Gain strategic perspectives on regulatory challenges and the role of New Zealand in shaping global tech innovations.

Start Your Crypto Journey with Easy Crypto 👇

Easy Crypto Sign Up

Paul Quickenden Bio

Chief Commercial Officer - Easy Crypto Seasoned financial futurist

Paul is a dynamic speaker who is highly sought after for his insights into and analysis of the transformative power of blockchain and cryptocurrency. With a fervent belief in the potential of this technology to revolutionise the global economic landscape, Paul draws parallels between the current blockchain era and the foundational impact of the internet in the 1990s.

Paul is a seasoned executive who has honed his expertise in disruptive technology and the development of agile digital enterprises primed for global markets. His multifaceted skill set spans strategy, consulting and product development, culminating in a profound understanding of blockchain and cryptocurrency ecosystems and how to build lightweight digital businesses that can export to the world.

As the driving force behind Easy Crypto's market expansion, growth initiatives, and the cultivation of the New Zealand Digital Dollar (NZDD), Paul is an expert in balancing growth with risk. His industry analysis commands a dedicated following within the business and crypto community and he has his reputation as a whip-smart leader with an unwavering passion to help propel New Zealand and other nations into the forefront of blockchain innovation.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Join us for a powerful conversation with the scientific minds behind Rejuvenate Pro, Aevum Labs' flagship longevity, immune, and gut health formulation.

In this expert panel discussion, we explore the clinical research, biochemical pathways, and traditional herbal wisdom that make Rejuvenate Pro a cutting-edge solution for targeting immunosenescence and the hallmarks of aging. Rejuvenate Pro was developed to modulate chronic inflammation, restore immune resilience, support gut barrier integrity, and extend healthspan — using a blend of scientifically validated and synergistic ingredients.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why immunosenescence drives nearly every age-related disease
  • How Rejuvenate Pro targets key cytokines (↓ IL-6, TNF-α; ↑ IL-10) and chemokines (↓ CXCL9)
  • The roles of IDP®, Immunel®, 20% Carnosic Acid, and Kawakawa in immune modulation
  • How traditional Māori medicine aligns with modern immunology
  • How gut health and immune function are intimately connected
  • The research and development process behind this formulation

Meet the Panel:

Lisa Tamati - Host & Chief Scientific Officer, Aevum Labs

Peter Lehrke - Biochemist & Lead Formulator

Mike Eyres - Herbal Medicine Expert

Dr. Rod Claycomb - Scientist & Innovation Researcher

Whether you're a clinician, health coach, longevity enthusiast, or someone looking to optimise your healthspan, this in-depth panel will give you rare insights into the formulation process and the systems biology approach behind Rejuvenate Pro.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this powerhouse episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with Lucas Aoun, founder of Boost Your Biology, biohacker, and men’s health optimization expert. Known as Australia’s leading biohacker, Lucas shares cutting-edge strategies to naturally support testosterone, improve dopamine levels, and protect against xenoestrogens and environmental toxins. Topics we explore:

  • Natural testosterone-boosting supplements
  • Key lifestyle and nutrition strategies to avoid endocrine disruptors
  • Dopamine-enhancing tools for motivation, drive, and focus
  • How to personalise your supplement stack

Whether you're a man looking to feel more vital, or a practitioner seeking to understand how to support male clients, this episode is packed with practical takeaways.

Connect with Lucas Aoun:

Website: Boost Your Biology YouTube Channel: Boost Your Biology - Lucas Aoun

Lucas Aoun Bio:

Lucas Aoun is widely regarded as Australia’s leading biohacker, naturopath, and human performance strategist. As the founder of Ergogenic Health and host of the “Boost Your Biology” podcast, he has carved out a global reputation for translating cutting-edge science into actionable protocols that enhance physical, cognitive, and hormonal performance.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this compelling episode, I sit down with integrative medicine pioneer Dr. Jeffrey Dach, MD, to explore his holistic, science-backed approach to fighting cancer. Drawing from his powerful book The Cancer Toolkit, Dr. Dach explains the core mechanisms behind cancer development and progression, and the multifaceted toolkit he uses to address it, from off-label pharmaceuticals and checkpoint inhibitors, to nutritional protocols, repurposed drugs, and targeted supplements.

We also break down the three key cellular pathways that go awry in cancer, how to support the body’s natural defenses, and why addressing the root cause—not just the tumor—is essential for long-term remission and recovery.

Topics We Cover:

  • Dr. Dach’s integrative and functional approach to cancer treatment
  • Key drivers of cancer: inflammation, angiogenesis, metabolic dysfunction
  • The most promising off-label drugs (e.g., metformin, mebendazole, statins)
  • Why the Warburg effect matters—and how to target it
  • Supplements with strong anti-cancer evidence
  • Checkpoint inhibitors and immune activation
  • Building a multi-modal protocol for better outcomes
  • Patient empowerment and the future of cancer care

COMING SOON: Don’t miss Part 2 of this interview, where we dive into Dr. Dach’s newest book Bioidentical Hormones 101, and his trailblazing protocols for restoring hormonal health safely and naturally.

Whether you're a practitioner, patient, or someone interested in cancer prevention, this episode delivers a deep dive into truly transformative insights.

Connect with Dr Jeffrey:

Website: Jeffreydachmd.com

The Cancer Toolkit: Jeffreydachmd.com/books

BIO:

Special Guest - Dr. Jeffrey Dach Jeffrey Dach (pronounced DASH) was originally board certified in Diagnostic and Interventional Radiology and worked in the hospital setting for 25 years. After eye trouble, Dr. Dach retired from radiology and started a clinic specializing in bioidentical hormones and natural thyroid and continued this for the last 24 years. He is the author of Bioidentical Hormones 101, Natural Thyroid Toolkit, Heart Book and Cracking Cancer Toolkit.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this powerful episode of Pushing the Limits, Lisa Tamati sits down with integrative gut health expert Dr. Kathleen Janel (a.k.a. GI Janel) to explore the hidden root causes of IBS, SIBO, and chronic digestive dysfunction and the groundbreaking use of high-dose MSM as part of a holistic gut repair strategy.

Dr. Janel shares her personal healing journey from debilitating gut issues to full recovery and how this inspired her mission to help others with complex gastrointestinal conditions. Together, they dive into how glyphosate exposure wreaks havoc on the gut microbiome, suppresses immunity, and fuels systemic inflammation and what you can do to detoxify and heal.

You’ll learn:

  • The overlooked role of glyphosate toxicity in gut disorders
  • Why many SIBO protocols fail and what to do instead
  • How MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) helps rebuild the intestinal lining and reduce inflammation
  • The science behind low sIgA, leaky gut, and microbiome collapse
  • Natural protocols combining MSM with binders, glutathione, and sulforaphane
  • How to personalise a gut-healing plan without destroying your microbiome

This is a must-listen episode for anyone suffering from IBS, bloating, food intolerances, or looking to reverse gut-driven autoimmunity.

Connect with Dr. Kathleen Website: GI Janel Instagram: @gijanelwellness

Dr Kathleen's Bio:

Dr Kathleen Janel has been practicing medicine for over 25 years. She is a graduate of Bastyr Medical School and has a degree in Biochemistry from the University of British Columbia. In New England, she completed residency and associate positions in Pediatrics and Primary Care.

Over the past decades, Dr Janel has developed and refined a unique treatment approach for digestive disorders. She has used this therapy for patients around the country and around the world, to help eliminate symptoms of abdominal pain, diarrhea, constipation, and the gas and bloating of IBS and SIBO. She firmly avoids using antibiotics as a treatment for digestive issues with remarkable results. Her work was published and release in the book entitled, “GI Janel, Permanent IBS/SIBO Resolution”. In it she guides the reader through her unique steps for successful digestive recovery.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Join longevity experts Chris Burres and Lisa Tamati as they dive into cutting-edge biohacking strategies to optimise health and extend lifespan.

In this engaging live session, they explore hydrogen inhalation for reducing oxidative stress, hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) for healing and neuroprotection, and the power of exogenous ketones in supporting brain health and cancer recovery. Lisa shares her inspiring journey of saving her mother’s life through relentless research and a fighter’s mindset, while Chris introduces innovative tools like nano oxygen therapy and ESR testing. Packed with actionable insights, this episode is a must-watch for anyone passionate about longevity, health optimization, and biohacking.

Tune in monthly for more groundbreaking discussions!

Connect with Chris Burres:

Website: www.myvitalc.com

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@myvitalc

Instagram: @myvitalc

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

What happens when a Wall Street macro hedge fund veteran dives deep into Bitcoin, crypto, AI, and longevity science? You get an expansive, future-focused conversation like this one.

In this powerful episode, I sit down with Macro Financial Analyst, AI and Bitcoin expert, Jordi Visser founder of Visser Labs, to explore the massive shifts reshaping capital markets, monetary systems, and human potential. Jordi brings over three decades of experience in macro strategy and combines it with a deeply philosophical lens on where the world is going.

We unpack:

  • The evolution of capital market structure
  • Why AI and exponential technologies are disrupting old economic models
  • ₿ The role of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and stablecoins in the future of finance
  • Jordi’s personal interest in longevity and health optimisation
  • How data, mindset, and biology intersect for performance and resilience
  • The shift toward self-sovereignty in health and money

This is a must-watch for anyone interested in the intersection of finance, technology, and biology — whether you're a health optimiser, investor, or simply curious about the future.

Jordi's Substack: Substack/@visserlabs

Visser Labs YouTube Channel: YouYube/@visserlabs

Jordi Visser Bio:

With over 30 years of Wall Street expertise in traditional finance and macroeconomics, I guide you through the evolving landscape of investments, from conventional assets to cryptocurrencies and AI-driven technologies.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Can we really reverse biological age?

In this groundbreaking episode, I sit down with Greg Macpherson, biotechnologist, pharmacist, and founder of SRW Laboratories, to explore the cutting-edge science behind reversing biological ageing — backed by real human clinical trial data.

We discuss SRW’s latest clinical study, which demonstrated measurable reductions in biological age markers through targeted supplementation. Greg unpacks how biological age is assessed using epigenetic markers like DNA methylation, and how SRW’s formulations are designed to influence key aging pathways including: sirtuins, NAD+ production, AMPK, and mTOR modulation.

What you’ll learn from the episode:

  • What biological age really means
  • How SRW’s trial measured age reversal using TruDiagnostic epigenetic clocks
  • Key molecules and compounds driving the effect
  • The importance of cellular senescence, mitochondrial function, and genomic stability
  • What’s next in the field of longevity biotechnology

Whether you're a health professional, biohacker, or longevity enthusiast, this episode is packed with science-forward insights and actionable takeaways.

Shop SRW supplements here: SRW Supplement Range Follow Greg Macpherson: Linkedin/Greg Nacpherson SRW Explore epigenetic testing: Trudiagnostic - TruAge COMPLETE

Greg Macpherson:

Throughout my career, I have been driven by a desire to help people achieve their potential by overcoming health challenges. As a biotechnologist, futurist, author, and pharmacologist, I have pursued this goal by founding one of the first online pharmacies in New Zealand and creating the country's first Government licensed robotic dispensing facility. My current focus is on understanding cellular aging and developing new formulations to support healthy aging and improve human health. For the past 10 years, I have been researching cellular aging and consulting with global experts in the field. All of this research and experience has led me to establish SRW, an organization that aims to translate scientific advancements into practical solutions for everyday people to live longer, healthier lives.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this enlightening episode, we sit down with Laura Yecies to discuss Osteoboost, the first and only FDA-cleared, drug-free prescription medical device designed to treat osteopenia in postmenopausal women. Yecies shares insights into the clinical research behind Osteoboost, its development inspired by NASA-funded studies, and the importance of proactive bone health management.

Key Topics Covered:

  • The Innovation Behind Osteoboost: Understanding how precision vibration therapy targets the spine and hips to reduce bone density and strength loss. (Osteoboost)
  • Clinical Efficacy: Discussing the results from a double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial showing up to an 85% reduction in spine bone density loss and an 83% reduction in bone strength loss among consistent users. (MedicalEconomics)
  • Importance of Early Intervention: Exploring why addressing bone health before the onset of osteoporosis is crucial, especially for postmenopausal women.
  • User Experience: Highlighting the ease of incorporating Osteoboost into daily routines, with just 30 minutes of use per day during activities like walking or cooking. (MedicalEconomics)
  • Broader Implications: Considering how Osteoboost fits into the larger conversation about aging, mobility, and long-term health.

Resources & Links:

  • Learn more about Osteoboost: Osteoboost
  • Clinical Trial Details: Osteoboost Clinical Trial Results
  • FDA Clearance Information: FDA Grants Clearance to Bone Health Technologies' Wearable Device for Osteopenia

Guest Bio:

Laura Yecies is the CEO of Osteoboost Health, Inc., the company behind the first and only FDA-cleared, non-drug wearable for low bone density. She has over 30 years of leadership experience in the technology and medical sectors. Prior to Osteoboost, she was CEO of NeuroSync, Catch (acq. by Apple), and SugarSync. Laura is also an active advisor and executive coach for early-stage digital health and therapeutics companies, focusing on supporting women founders. She holds an MBA from Harvard, MSFS from Georgetown, and AB from Dartmouth.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Discover the science behind Calocurb, a natural supplement utilising Amarasate® - a bitter hops extract—to enhance GLP-1 production, leading to reduced hunger and cravings. Backed by over 14 years of research and multiple clinical trials, Calocurb offers a non-pharmaceutical approach to weight management.

In this video, we delve into:

  • Calocurb's mechanism of action and clinical efficacy
  • Comparisons with GLP-1 receptor agonist drugs like semaglutide, tirzepatide, retatrutide, and liraglutide
  • Benefits beyond weight loss, including impacts on brain and gut health
  • Accessibility and ease of use compared to prescription medications

Key Research Findings:

  • Calocurb increases GLP-1 levels up to sixfold, leading to a 20% reduction in calorie intake.
  • Clinical trials show a 30% reduction in hunger and a 40% decrease in cravings.
  • GLP-1 agonists not only aid in weight loss but also offer mental health benefits, including improved mood and reduced risk of depression.
  • Weight Loss Supplements: Comparing Calocurb, Berberine, and Akkermansia

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Osteoporosis silently compromises bone strength, leading to increased fracture risk, especially in women over 50. In this comprehensive video, we delve into natural and science-backed strategies to enhance bone density and combat osteoporosis.

Topics Covered:

  • Exercise & Mechanical Loading:

    • Importance of weight-bearing and resistance exercises.
    • Insights into OsteoStrong® sessions and their impact on bone mineral density.
    • Overview of the OsteoBoost® belt and its FDA clearance.
    • Advanced Therapies:

    • Benefits of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) in bone healing.

    • Role of Red/Near-Infrared Light Therapy in bone regeneration.
    • Discussion on peptide therapies like Teriparatide and Ibutamoren.
    • Nutrition & Supplementation:

    • Efficacy of AlgaeCal® in improving bone mineral density.

    • Synergistic effects of Vitamin D3 and K2 on bone health.
    • Benefits of collagen peptides and tocotrienol-rich Vitamin E.
    • Hormonal Health:

    • Impact of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and DHEA on bone density.

    • Considerations for hormone replacement therapy.
    • Medications & Monitoring:

    • Risks associated with bisphosphonates and long-term use.

    • Importance of DEXA scans in monitoring bone health.
    • Effects of steroid medications on bone strength.

Featured Expert: Dr. Doug Lucas, a renowned orthopedic surgeon, shares his insights on optimising bone health through a holistic approach. Learn more about his work at drdouglucas.com.

Related Podcast: For an in-depth discussion on osteoporosis and bone health, watch the following podcast: YouTube Video

Empower yourself with knowledge and take proactive steps towards stronger bones and a healthier future.

References:

  1. Mortality and cause of death in hip fracture patients aged 65 or older.
  2. Effective Brief, Low-impact, High-intensity Osteogenic Loading in Postmenopausal Women.
  3. Wearable vibration device - FDA clearance for OsteoBoost Belt.
  4. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy for promoting fracture healing.
  5. NIR light-assisted phototherapies for bone-related diseases.
  6. Effect of Teriparatide on Bone Mineral Density and Bone Markers.
  7. Treatment with the oral growth hormone secretagogue MK-677.
  8. A 7-Year Longitudinal Trial of the Safety and Efficacy of AlgaeCal.
  9. Effect of combined administration of vitamin D3 and vitamin K2 on bone mineral density.
  10. Specific Collagen Peptides Improve Bone Mineral Density and Bone Markers.
  11. Tocotrienol supplementation in postmenopausal osteoporosis.
  12. A systematic review and meta-analysis of DHEA supplementation on bone mineral density.
  13. Glucocorticoid-Induced Osteoporosis Clinical Practice Guidelines.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Welcome back to Pushing the Limits for another insightful episode. Today, we dive into Kaatsu Training with Sandy Nelson, exploring how this blood flow restriction technique boosts bone density, muscle growth, and brain health for older adults and athletes.

Key Points:

  • Research suggests Kaatsu Training helps older adults with osteopenia by improving bone density.
  • It seems likely that Kaatsu Training increases IGF-1 and BDNF, supporting muscle and brain health.
  • The evidence leans toward Kaatsu Training offering neuroprotection, likely via BDNF.
  • Kaatsu Training appears to enhance athlete performance, aiding recovery and strength.

What is Kaatsu Training?

Kaatsu Training, also known as Blood Flow Restriction (BFR) training, is a method where special bands partially restrict blood flow to the limbs during exercise. This creates a hypoxic environment in the muscles, promoting growth and strength with lighter loads. It was developed in Japan by Dr. Yoshiaki Sato and is used for both rehabilitation and performance enhancement.

Benefits for Older Adults and Osteopenia

For older adults, Kaatsu Training can help combat osteopenia, a condition with low bone density. Studies suggest it can maintain or increase bone density, reducing fracture risk and supporting mobility, especially for those with joint issues like osteoarthritis. Its low-impact nature makes it suitable, allowing strength gains without excessive joint stress.

Impact on IGF-1, BDNF, and Neuroprotection

Research indicates Kaatsu Training increases Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1), vital for muscle and bone health, and Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF), important for brain health. This likely contributes to neuroprotection, potentially reducing neurodegenerative disease risk by supporting cognitive function.

Benefits for Athletes

For athletes, Kaatsu Training can enhance performance by improving muscle strength and hypertrophy with lighter weights. It can also aid recovery by promoting growth hormones, reducing muscle damage, and allowing more frequent, intense training, benefiting Olympians and professional athletes.

Use code "Nelson" at Kaatsu.com for 10% off to start incorporating this training

Sandy Nelson Bio

"Never before have I seen a modality that gives such a robust hormonal response and promotes the biochemical factors we need to stay strong and sharp as we age."

As a KAATSU Certified Coach, Sandy specializes in helping build and maintain your strength and stamina over 50. She also helps healthcare professionals implement KAATSU within their practices and with their clients.​​​​​​​

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Unlock the transformative potential of peptides in this in-depth, science-driven lecture designed for medical professionals and health enthusiasts alike. This episode explores the therapeutic applications of peptides for brain health (Cerebrolysin, Selank, Semax), gastrointestinal and musculoskeletal repair (BPC-157, CJC-1295/Ipamorelin, TB500), bone health (MK-677, CJC-1295/Ipamorelin), and immune modulation (Thymosin Alpha-1). Backed by clinical and preclinical data, we dive into how these powerful amino acid chains enhance neurogenesis, tissue regeneration, bone density, and immune function. Perfect for those seeking cutting-edge insights into peptide therapy, regenerative medicine, and longevity optimization.

Learn more about peptides in the episodes below:

Orally Available Peptides - the FUTURE of peptide therapy with Kyal Van Der Leest

Longevity Supplements, peptides and more with Dr Elizabeth Yurth

Longevity with Oral Peptides: The Future of Healthy Aging with Michael Antonelli

Peptides and Epigenetic Age Testing - Optimising your Future Health Now By Ryan Smith

Peptides for Optimal Health: What You Need to Know with Dr Yurth

Turn Back The Hands Of Time Using Bioregulator Peptides By Dr Bill Lawrence

Bioregulator Peptides and longevity with Phil Micans Msc

Shop High-Quality Peptides with Exclusive Discounts: Lvlup Health Peptides: Get 10% of your order today Biolongevity Labs: Save 10% at Biolongevity Labs

Orally available peptides through our formulation Rejuvenate Pro: Aevum Labs, Flagship product also contains powerful peptides including naturally occurring bioactive peptides derived from colostrum.

Key Peptide Components in Re:juvenate Pro

🌟 Proline-Rich Peptides (PRPs): These are small signaling molecules found in colostrum. PRPs help regulate immune responses by modulating cytokine activity, promoting immune balance, and supporting tissue repair. They are known for their role in enhancing immune function and reducing inflammation.

🌟 Immune Defense Protein (IDP®) component of Re:juvenate Pro als contains peptides. IDP® is a bioactive whey protein complex derived from New Zealand pasture-fed cow's milk, comprising over 50 milk-derived bioactive compounds, including immunoglobulins, lactoferrin, and lactoperoxidase. These bioactive proteins inherently contain peptide sequences that contribute to their functional properties. These components are known for their antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant activities, supporting gut health and the immune system 🌟 Immunel® Colostrum Extract: This is a specialized, fat-free, and lactose-reduced colostrum extract rich in PRPs, sialic acid, nucleotides, and growth factors. It has been shown to support immune function, gut integrity, and overall health. Aevum Labs Rejuvenate Pro: Get Rejuvenate Pro journey started here: Rejuvenate Pro

Start your Rejuvenate Journey Today

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this insightful episode of Pushing the Limits, we welcome Dr. Suzanne Humphries, a conventionally trained internist and nephrologist who transitioned from mainstream hospital medicine to independent research in 2011. Dr. Humphries delves into critical discussions about the current state of the medical system, shedding light on historical and contemporary issues that influence public health narratives.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • Historical Perspectives Dr. Humphries challenges conventional narratives surrounding diseases like polio and smallpox, suggesting that factors such as improved sanitation and nutrition played significant roles in disease decline alongside vaccination efforts
  • Censorship and Scientific Discourse: A discussion on the suppression of dissenting views in the medical community, emphasizing the importance of open dialogue and critical evaluation of prevailing health policies.

About Dr. Suzanne Humphries:

Dr. Humphries is the author of Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines , where she presents a detailed examination of the history of our public health system. Her work encourages a reevaluation of widely accepted medical narratives through rigorous research and analysis.

Resources:

  • Visit Dr. Humphries' website: dissolvingillusions.com
  • Listen to her appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience Episode #2294

Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that challenges the status quo and encourages a deeper understanding of the medical system's complexities.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode Lisa is interviewed by Rodney Hide of Reality Check Radio on her background as an ultra athlete and what she learnt during her career that really helped her in her mothers arduous medical challenges from aneurysms to brain cancer, from hip fractures to gastrointestinal bleeds and on. Against all odds Lisa and her family fought to save and rehabilitate their beloved mum, Isobel.

In this episode Lisa shares her experiences in the medical world, her current work now in the longevity and health optimisation space and the exciting opportunities coming down the pipeline now with AI, multi omics, and the incredible investment into research for longevity and healthspan.

🌟 Explore more from content from RCR: Reality Check Radio Media

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of Pushing the Limits, we dive deep into female hormone health with Dr. Samantha Newman, founder of Female GP. Whether you’re in your 20s or navigating menopause, hormones play a crucial role in energy, mood, metabolism, fertility, and overall well-being.

Dr. Newman shares her holistic and medical approach to hormone optimisation, helping women achieve hormonal balance through functional medicine, lifestyle, nutrition, and biohacking strategies.

Topics Covered:

  • The biggest hormonal imbalances affecting women today
  • The role of stress, sleep, and nutrition in hormone health
  • How to optimise your hormones
  • The impact of perimenopause and menopause on energy, weight, and mood
  • Bioidentical hormones and natural supplements for hormonal balance
  • How to get your doctor to work with you on your hormone journey
  • The importance of understanding your hormone history to understand where you are at today.

If you're struggling with PMS, low energy, mood swings, brain fog, weight gain, or burnout, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you take control of your hormonal health.

Subscribe & share if you know someone who needs this info!

Dr. Samantha Newman Bio:

Dr. Samantha Newman, MBChB, BSc (hons), PGDipOMG, General Practitioner with a Specialist Interest in Women's Health | Honorary Lecturer at the University of Auckland | Adjunct Associate Researcher University of Monash Dr Samantha runs a specialist women's health clinic and works as a GP at a Family Practice. Her practice is founded upon empowering women to understand their body and mind, and how pelvic, musculoskeletal, brain and hormone health are inseparable. Dr Sam is involved in research projects, is a founder and trustee of women's health charity, Rose Gold Trust, and has a passion for educating.

📎 Learn more about Dr. Samantha Newman and her work at: Female GP

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we dive deep into one of nature’s most powerful superfoods—colostrum—and explore its incredible benefits for immune function, gut health, and overall well-being. But we’re taking it a step further by introducing Immunel, a highly concentrated and bioactive colostrum extract developed by Sterling Technology. Immunel represents the 5th generation of colostrum, setting a new standard for immune and gut support.

Topics Covered:

What is Colostrum?

  • The first milk produced after birth, rich in antibodies (IgG), growth factors, and bioactive peptides.
  • The science behind 9,000+ PubMed studies on colostrum’s health benefits.

The Health Benefits of Bovine Colostrum

  • Immune Boosting: Clinical research shows colostrum is 3x more effective than the flu vaccine in reducing flu incidence.
  • Gut Healing Properties: Protects the GI lining, reduces diarrhea by 86.6%, and helps in ulcerative colitis management.
  • Anti-Inflammatory Effects: Supports those with NSAID-induced GI issues.
  • Stem Cell & Regenerative Potential.

Immunel: The Next Evolution in Colostrum

  • A concentrated colostrum extract packed with key bioactive compounds:

    • Growth Factors (IGF-1, TGF-ß2)
    • Proline-Rich Polypeptides (PRPs) for immune modulation
    • Enzymes (lysozyme, lactoperoxidase, lactoferrin) for pathogen defense
    • Sialic Acid & Nucleotides essential for immune function & DNA synthesis

Immunel vs. Standard Colostrum

  • Unlike standard colostrum, which focuses on IgG content, Immunel is clinically validated for immune activation and pathogen defense.
  • Outperforms β-glucans and vitamin C in immune response.

Scientific Evidence on Immunel

  • Enhances phagocytosis & innate immunity
  • Activates Natural Killer (NK) cells (↑ CD69 expression)
  • Reduces bacterial lung infections by 70.2%
  • Lowers viral load by 64% in influenza

Why This Matters for Public Health

  • The economic burden of flu & colds: 75M lost workdays annually, costing $37.5B.
  • Growing consumer interest: 47% of people prioritize immune health, driving demand for functional foods.

Immunel is a next-generation, scientifically backed immune and gut health solution—more bioavailable and effective than traditional colostrum. Perfect for daily supplementation to support overall health and resilience.

🌱 Aevum Labs Rejuvenate Por formulation containing Immunel 🌱

Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs is a cutting-edge supplement meticulously formulated to enhance immune, gut, and cellular health. By integrating nature's most potent bioactives, including Immunel® this daily foundational supplement offers a comprehensive approach to promoting longevity and overall well-being. Immunel® combined with IDP, Kawakawa and Carnosic acid round out our formulation. Immunel is a concentrated colostrum extract and, is rich in natural immune peptides and growth factors that stimulate immune activity and rejuvenate the ageing immune system, providing rapid immune support.

🌟 Shop Now: Re:Juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

🌟 Learn More at: Aevum Labs

Experience the synergy of science and nature with Re:juvenate Pro, and take a proactive step towards optimal health.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Welcome to an episode where we explore the cutting-edge world of photobiomodulation (PBM) and its potential to transform the landscape of neurodegenerative disease treatment. This episode features an in-depth interview with Liam Pingree, CEO of Neuronic, we dive into the science behind PBM and the innovative Neuradiant 1070 device. Building on our discussion from last year, we’ll uncover how this non-invasive therapy leverages red and near-infrared light to enhance brain health, with a focus on conditions like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s.

Photobiomodulation, often called low-level laser or red light therapy, is gaining traction as a promising approach to tackle the mitochondrial dysfunction and inflammation that drive neurodegenerative diseases. Today, we’ll hear from Liam about how the Neuradiant 1070, with its unique 1070 nm wavelength, aims to penetrate deeper into the brain, offering hope for symptom relief and possibly slowing disease progression. We’ll also spotlight the contributions of key researchers, including Professor Paul Chazot, whose work on neuroinflammation ties into this field, alongside pioneers like Michael R. Hamblin driving PBM research forward.

Join us as we break down the device’s features, clinical applications, and real-world user experiences, all while peering into the future of PBM as a potential standard in brain health care. Whether you’re a science enthusiast, a caregiver, or someone curious about innovative therapies, this episode offers a compelling look at how light might just shine a new path forward for neurodegenerative challenges.

Let’s dive in!

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • The Science of Photobiomodulation (PBM): Understand how PBM uses red and near-infrared light to boost mitochondrial function, reduce inflammation, and promote neurogenesis, with insights into its relevance for Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s.
  • The Neuradiant 1070 Device: Explore the specifics of this home-use PBM device, including the significance of its 1070 nm wavelength for brain penetration and its quadrant control system for targeted treatment.
  • Key Research Contributions: Learn about the work of leading researchers like Michael R. Hamblin, John Mitrofanis, and Paul Chazot, whose studies on PBM and neuroinflammation are shaping the field.
  • Clinical Applications and Future Vision: Discover how the Neuradiant 1070 is being used for neurodegenerative conditions, supported by emerging clinical trials, and hear Liam Pingree’s vision for PBM’s role in prevention and treatment by 2027.

🧠 Shop Neuronic Devices Now

Use code "Tamati100' to receive $100 USD off your Neuronic device

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on Pushing the Limits, we dive into the science of living longer and healthier with Chris Burres, a trailblasing carbon nano scientist and the mastermind behind ESS60—a game-changing molecule shaking up the world of longevity. Known as a refined, human-friendly version of Carbon 60, ESS60 is stealing the spotlight for its potential to boost lifespan, fight ageing, and supercharge wellness.

Chris walks us through his incredible journey in nanotechnology, from the Nobel Prize-winning origins of Carbon 60 to the cutting-edge research that’s turning ESS60 into a longevity powerhouse. We’re talking antioxidant superpowers, inflammation-busting effects, and even mitochondrial tune-ups—science that could redefine how we age. Whether you’re obsessed with biohacking, intrigued by breakthroughs, or just want to feel your best, this episode is your ticket to the future of health.

What You’ll Discover:

  • The ESS60 Story: How a Nobel Prize-winning discovery evolved into a molecule you can use today.
  • Science That Stuns: The exciting research showing ESS60’s ability to extend life and optimise health.
  • How It Works: A peek under the hood at how ESS60 battles oxidative stress, ageing, and inflammation at the cellular level.
  • Everyday Impact: Simple ways to weave ESS60 into your routine for vitality and resilience.
  • What’s Next: Chris’s bold predictions for nanotechnology and the future of longevity.

Bonus Insights:

  • Is ESS60 safe? We break down the facts.
  • How to pick the right ESS60 products for you (and your pets!).
  • Skin care secrets and pet health perks with ESS60.
  • A sneak peek at the next big thing in longevity research.

Tune in for a mind-expanding chat that blends hard science with real-world health hacks. Chris Burres isn’t just a scientist—he’s a storyteller with a mission to help us all live longer, laugh more, and thrive. Don’t miss this one!

Chris Burres Bio: Chris Burres is a published author, host of the Uncovering the Secrets to Longevity Health Summit, and a patent holder with a twist—he’s as skilled at comedy improv as he is at science. As the founder and chief scientist at MyVitalC, Chris crafts ESS60, the molecule behind the longest lifespan extension ever recorded in experimental research (a whopping 90%!). His mission? To help people live longer, happier, and pain-free, one groundbreaking dose at a time.

🧬✨The Role of Rejuvenate in Fighting Immunosenescence and Inflammaging

Rejuvenate, the flagship product from Aevum Labs, is formulated to help slow the decline of the immune system by addressing chronic inflammation, improving gut barrier health, and supporting cellular repair.

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

💡Find Out More: Aevum Labs Website | Aevum Labs Instagram

🌱 Key Ingredients and Their Benefits:

  1. Immune Defense Protein (IDP) – Produced by Quantec, this innovative bioactive protein has powerful immune-modulating properties. IDP works to restore and strengthen the gut barrier, which is critical for maintaining immune balance. It also reduces gut inflammation and supports a healthy gut microbiome, which in turn improves immune resilience. Listen here to learn more about IDP: Dr Rod Claycomb co-founder of Quantec Ltd
  2. Immunel® (Concentrated Colostrum) – Sourced from Sterling Technology, Immunel is a concentrated colostrum extract rich in natural immune peptides and growth factors. These components stimulate immune activity and help rejuvenate the aging immune system, providing rapid immune support.
  3. Carnosic Acid (Rosemary Extract) – A potent antioxidant and neuroprotective compound that reduces inflammation and oxidative stress. Carnosic acid also supports brain health, helping to protect against age-related cognitive decline while reducing systemic inflammation.
  4. Kawakawa (Piper excelsum) – A traditional New Zealand medicinal plant, kawakawa is known for its anti-inflammatory and gut-soothing properties. It supports gut barrier health, reduces chronic inflammation, and promotes overall immune balance.

🌱 How Rejuvenate Supports Whole-Body Health

  • Cellular Health: Reduces oxidative stress and inflammation, promoting cellular repair and longevity.
  • Gut Health: Strengthens the gut barrier and balances the microbiome, reducing gut permeability (leaky gut) and inflammation.
  • Immune Health: Supports both the innate and adaptive immune system, helping restore immune balance and preventing chronic immune fatigue.
  • Brain Health: Carnosic acid and immune-modulating peptides help protect against neuroinflammation and support cognitive function.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, host Lisa Tamati sits down with Dr. Eric Osansky, a leading expert in natural endocrine solutions, to explore the world of thyroid health. Focusing on hypothyroidism, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, and Graves’ disease, Dr. Osansky unpacks how the gut, immune system, inflammation, nutrition, and genetics play pivotal roles in these conditions—and what you can do about it.

Dr. Osansky, founder of Natural Endocrine Solutions, shares his personal journey of overcoming Graves’ disease using natural methods, inspiring his mission to help others reclaim their health. He’s the host of the popular podcast Save My Thyroid and the author of bestselling books like Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease and Hashimoto’s Triggers. Plus, he offers a fantastic free 6-step guide on his website to kickstart your thyroid-healing journey.

In this episode, we cover:

  • The differences between hypothyroidism, Hashimoto’s, and Graves’—and their surprising connections.
  • How gut health (think leaky gut and dysbiosis) can make or break your thyroid function.
  • The immune system’s role in autoimmunity and practical ways to tame inflammation naturally.
  • Nutrition hacks: what to eat (and avoid) for optimal thyroid support.
  • The genetic factor—how much does it matter, and how can you work with it?
  • Why conventional treatments aren’t the only answer and how to integrate natural strategies.
  • Actionable tips to start healing today, from gut repair to stress management.

Want more from Dr. Osansky? Visit Natural Endocrine Solutions for his blog, resources, and to grab his free 6-step guide to thyroid healing. Check out his books—Natural Treatment Solutions for Hyperthyroidism and Graves’ Disease and Hashimoto’s Triggers—for in-depth strategies, and tune into his podcast Save My Thyroid for weekly insights on saving your thyroid naturally.

Connect with Dr. Eric Osansky:

  • Website: www.naturalendocrinesolutions.com
  • Podcast: Save My Thyroid

🧬✨The Role of Rejuvenate in Fighting Immunosenescence and Inflammaging

Rejuvenate, the flagship product from Aevum Labs, is formulated to help slow the decline of the immune system by addressing chronic inflammation, improving gut barrier health, and supporting cellular repair.

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

💡Find Out More: Aevum Labs Website | Aevum Labs Instagram

🌱 Key Ingredients and Their Benefits:

  1. Immune Defense Protein (IDP) – Produced by Quantec, this innovative bioactive protein has powerful immune-modulating properties. IDP works to restore and strengthen the gut barrier, which is critical for maintaining immune balance. It also reduces gut inflammation and supports a healthy gut microbiome, which in turn improves immune resilience. Listen here to learn more about IDP: Dr Rod Claycomb co-founder of Quantec Ltd
  2. Immunel® (Concentrated Colostrum) – Sourced from Sterling Technology, Immunel is a concentrated colostrum extract rich in natural immune peptides and growth factors. These components stimulate immune activity and help rejuvenate the aging immune system, providing rapid immune support.
  3. Carnosic Acid (Rosemary Extract) – A potent antioxidant and neuroprotective compound that reduces inflammation and oxidative stress. Carnosic acid also supports brain health, helping to protect against age-related cognitive decline while reducing systemic inflammation.
  4. Kawakawa (Piper excelsum) – A traditional New Zealand medicinal plant, kawakawa is known for its anti-inflammatory and gut-soothing properties. It supports gut barrier health, reduces chronic inflammation, and promotes overall immune balance.

🌱 How Rejuvenate Supports Whole-Body Health

  • Cellular Health: Reduces oxidative stress and inflammation, promoting cellular repair and longevity.
  • Gut Health: Strengthens the gut barrier and balances the microbiome, reducing gut permeability (leaky gut) and inflammation.
  • Immune Health: Supports both the innate and adaptive immune system, helping restore immune balance and preventing chronic immune fatigue.
  • Brain Health: Carnosic acid and immune-modulating peptides help protect against neuroinflammation and support cognitive function.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

#ThyroidHealth #Hashimotos #GravesDisease #Hypothyroidism #Autoimmune #GutHealth #ImmuneSystem

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Welcome back to the second part of the Aevum Labs Series on Immune Health!

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Elizabeth Yurth, founder of the Boulder Longevity Institute, to explore the fascinating world of immunosenescence—the ageing of the immune system—and its connection to inflammaging, chronic inflammation that accelerates aging. Dr. Yurth explains how the decline of our immune system not only affects our resilience to infections but also plays a pivotal role in the development of chronic diseases, neurodegeneration, and overall cellular decline.

We dive into how gut health, immune health, and cellular health are deeply interconnected, with 70–80% of our immune system residing in and around the gut. Learn how chronic systemic inflammation and gut permeability can break down your immune defenses and how you can turn back the clock on immune ageing.

We also introduce our exciting new product developed in conjunction with Dr Yurth as a scientific advisor, from Aevum Labs—Rejuvenate—which is specifically designed to target immune decline, support cellular health, and reduce chronic inflammation. Dr. Yurth explains how the ingredients in Rejuvenate help restore immune vitality, protect brain health, and improve gut barrier integrity.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • What is immunosenescence? Understanding how and why our immune system declines with age.
  • The link between chronic systemic inflammation (inflammaging) and ageing—why targeting inflammation is essential for longevity.
  • The gut-immune connection: Why 70–80% of your immune system resides in the gut and how gut health affects brain health and systemic inflammation.
  • Practical strategies to combat immune aging, from diet and lifestyle interventions to cutting-edge supplements.

🧬✨The Role of Rejuvenate in Fighting Immunosenescence and Inflammaging

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

💡Find Out More: Aevum Labs Website | Aevum Labs Instagram

Rejuvenate, the flagship product from Aevum Labs, is formulated to help slow the decline of the immune system by addressing chronic inflammation, improving gut barrier health, and supporting cellular repair.

🌱 Key Ingredients and Their Benefits:

  1. Immune Defense Protein (IDP) – Produced by Quantec, this innovative bioactive protein has powerful immune-modulating properties. IDP works to restore and strengthen the gut barrier, which is critical for maintaining immune balance. It also reduces gut inflammation and supports a healthy gut microbiome, which in turn improves immune resilience. Listen here to learn more about IDP: Dr Rod Claycomb co-founder of Quantec Ltd
  2. Immunel® (Concentrated Colostrum) – Sourced from Sterling Technology, Immunel is a concentrated colostrum extract rich in natural immune peptides and growth factors. These components stimulate immune activity and help rejuvenate the aging immune system, providing rapid immune support.
  3. Carnosic Acid (Rosemary Extract) – A potent antioxidant and neuroprotective compound that reduces inflammation and oxidative stress. Carnosic acid also supports brain health, helping to protect against age-related cognitive decline while reducing systemic inflammation.
  4. Kawakawa (Piper excelsum) – A traditional New Zealand medicinal plant, kawakawa is known for its anti-inflammatory and gut-soothing properties. It supports gut barrier health, reduces chronic inflammation, and promotes overall immune balance.

🌱 How Rejuvenate Supports Whole-Body Health

  • Cellular Health: Reduces oxidative stress and inflammation, promoting cellular repair and longevity.
  • Gut Health: Strengthens the gut barrier and balances the microbiome, reducing gut permeability (leaky gut) and inflammation.
  • Immune Health: Supports both the innate and adaptive immune system, helping restore immune balance and preventing chronic immune fatigue.
  • Brain Health: Carnosic acid and immune-modulating peptides help protect against neuroinflammation and support cognitive function.

🌱 Why Immune Health Matters for Longevity

Dr. Yurth emphasiaes that immune health is the foundation of longevity. By reducing systemic inflammation and restoring immune resilience, you can not only extend your lifespan but also improve your healthspan—ensuring your later years are vibrant and disease-free.

Don’t miss this deep dive into the science of aging and immune optimisation! Learn how cutting-edge research and innovations like Rejuvenate are changing the way we age.

🤝 Connect With Us:

✨ Dr. Elizabeth Yurth: Boulder Longevity Institute

✨ Quantec: Website

✨ Sterling Technology (Immunel®): Website

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this final episode of our three-part series, we welcome back Dr. Bill Andrews, world-renowned telomere scientist and founder of Sierra Sciences. If you’ve been captivated by the journey through telomere science so far, you won’t want to miss this deep dive into the future of telomerase research and its groundbreaking potential to reverse ageing at the genetic level.

In this episode, Dr. Andrews reflects on the progress made in telomere science and shares his latest insights on how telomerase activation could become a mainstream therapy for longevity and disease prevention. He also unpacks the challenges, opportunities, and what lies ahead in the quest for cellular rejuvenation.

Key Discussion Points:

Telomerase Activation – Practical Applications & Next Steps

  • What widespread telomerase activation could mean for ageing and chronic disease prevention.
  • How telomerase therapies might revolutionise healthcare in the next decade.

New Discoveries in Telomere Research

  • The most recent advancements and promising compounds for telomerase activation.
  • Understanding the role of telomeres in age-related diseases and how targeting them may prevent or reverse these conditions.

Balancing Safety & Innovation

  • Regulatory and safety considerations for bringing telomerase activators to market.
  • How to stay informed and support the development of telomerase-based therapies.

Longevity Science & Society – What’s Next?

  • The ethical and societal implications of dramatically extending human lifespan.
  • Addressing skepticism and dispelling myths around telomerase research.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✅ The difference between theoretical longevity interventions and those closest to clinical application.

✅ How telomerase research aligns with other emerging fields of longevity science.

✅ Why understanding telomeres is key to unlocking better healthspan and longer life.

✅ The real-world implications of reversing cellular aging and how you can be part of the movement.

About Dr. Bill Andrews:

Dr. Andrews is a molecular biologist, biotech pioneer, and ultramarathon runner who has dedicated over 30 years to the study of telomeres and telomerase. He holds more than 50 U.S. patents related to telomerase activation and continues to push the boundaries of what’s possible in longevity science through his work at Sierra Sciences.

Dr. Andrews has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and documentaries like The Immortalists, where he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey.

🔗 Website: https://sierrasci.com/ 🎬 The Immortalists Movie: https://theimmortalists.com/watch/ 📝 Sign the Best Choice Medicine Petition: https://www.bestchoicemedicine.com/

🧬✨ Introducing Aevum Labs: The Future of Longevity Science

Aevum is a cutting-edge biotech company revolutionising the science of ageing by targeting the immune system’s role in longevity. Backed by world-class research, Aevum is dedicated to developing science-driven solutions that support cellular health, resilience, and optimal aging.

🌱 Flagship Product: Re:juvenate Pro

Aevum’s premier supplement, Re:juvenate Pro, is designed to fortify the immune system, promote cellular repair, and support longevity with the most powerful bioactive compounds.

Key Benefits:

  • Cellular Repair – Supports immune pathways to reduce inflammation and enhance recovery.
  • Immune Defense – Features lactoferrin, lactoperoxidase, and immunoglobulins to fight off pathogens, viruses, and bacteria.
  • Gut & Microbiome Health – Strengthens body barriers, improving digestion and overall immunity.

Formulated with cutting-edge longevity research and manufactured to the highest standards, Re:juvenate Pro is the ultimate daily defense against ageing.

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

✨ Find Out More: Aevum Labs

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this deeply personal episode of "Pushing the Limits," Lisa Tamati shares her journey through the health sector, combining her expertise as a former professional ultra-endurance athlete with her role as a dedicated caregiver. Drawing on years of clinical research and personal experience caring for her mother through a series of health crises over the past decade, facing insurmountable odds over and over again—Lisa offers invaluable insights on brain rehabilitation, cancer therapies and insights, health optimisation and prevention strategies, mental toughness, and the importance of self-care.

Discussion Topics Include:

  • Personal Journey & Background:

    • How 25 years as an ultra-endurance athlete molded her resilience and approach to health.
    • Transitioning from extreme sports to optimising health for herself, her mother, and her clients.
    • Caring for Her Mother:

    • Overcoming daunting challenges (aneurysm, stroke, cancer, gut issues, infections, fractures) through relentless research and personalised protocols.

    • The emotional and physical toll of 24/7 care while running multiple businesses and why keeping her mother at home remains a priority.
    • Mindset & Mental Toughness:

    • Strategies for cultivating mental resilience amid overwhelming challenges.

    • Practical tips for self-care and prioritising tasks to avoid caregiver burnout.
    • Navigating the Medical System:

    • The limitations of conventional medicine and the importance of thinking for yourself.

    • How to build a strong, supportive team around you.
    • Continuous Learning & Innovation:

    • The role of ongoing education in applying the latest health research to real-life challenges.

    • Integrating clinical practice with cutting-edge health optimisation techniques.

Join Lisa for an inspiring and honest conversation that blends personal stories with actionable advice for anyone facing caregiving challenges or seeking to optimise their own health and resilience.

🎙️🎧 Podcasts Mentioned in The Episode:

Dr. Scott Sherr on Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy

Dr. Rod Claycomb on Rejuvenate

Dr. Dayan Goodenowe on Plasmalogens

Devon Price on Ketones

Dr. Ross Pelton on Dr Ohhira's Probiotic

🧬✨ Introducing Aevum Labs: The Future of Longevity Science

Aevum is a cutting-edge biotech company revolutionising the science of ageing by targeting the immune system’s role in longevity. Backed by world-class research, Aevum is dedicated to developing science-driven solutions that support cellular health, resilience, and optimal aging.

🌱 Flagship Product: Re:juvenate Pro

Aevum’s premier supplement, Re:juvenate Pro, is designed to fortify the immune system, promote cellular repair, and support longevity with the most powerful bioactive compounds.

Key Benefits:

  • Cellular Repair – Supports immune pathways to reduce inflammation and enhance recovery.
  • Immune Defense – Features lactoferrin, lactoperoxidase, and immunoglobulins to fight off pathogens, viruses, and bacteria.
  • Gut & Microbiome Health – Strengthens body barriers, improving digestion and overall immunity.

Formulated with cutting-edge longevity research and manufactured to the highest standards, Re:juvenate Pro is the ultimate daily defense against ageing.

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

✨ Find Out More: Aevum Labs

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this riveting second installment of our three-part series, Dr. Bill Andrews, one of the world’s foremost experts in telomere science, returns to dive deeper into the groundbreaking research on telomerase activation. If you were fascinated by Part 1, this episode takes the conversation to the next level—exploring cutting-edge advancements, the latest discoveries, and what it truly means to reverse cellular aging.

Dr. Andrews, founder of Sierra Sciences, has dedicated his career to decoding the mechanisms behind telomere shortening and how activating telomerase could hold the key to longevity. This episode unpacks new breakthroughs in telomerase research and the practical applications that could change the way we approach aging and disease prevention.

Key Discussion Points:

🔬 Telomerase: The Enzyme That Reverses Aging

  • How telomerase works at a cellular level to rebuild and extend telomeres.
  • The difference between natural telomerase activation and synthetic approaches.

🚀 The Latest Breakthroughs in Telomere Science

  • What has changed since Dr. Andrews first started his quest to find telomerase activators.
  • New compounds and technologies showing promise in longevity research.

⚖️ The Real-World Applications & Challenges

  • Potential therapies in development—how close are we to real solutions?
  • Safety concerns and regulatory hurdles in bringing telomerase activators to market.

🤔 The Future of Anti-Aging Science

  • What widespread telomerase activation could mean for healthcare and society.
  • Busting myths and addressing skepticism around reversing aging.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✅ How telomerase differs from other longevity interventions. ✅ The progress being made toward reversing aging at the cellular level. ✅ The potential benefits and risks of telomerase activation. ✅ How you can support and stay informed on the latest research.

Don’t miss the final part of this series, where Dr. Andrews shares the most exciting developments yet in the fight against aging.

About Dr. Bill Andrews:

A molecular biologist, biotech pioneer, and endurance athlete, Dr. Andrews has spent over 30 years at the forefront of telomere research. He led the discovery of key components of the telomerase enzyme while at Geron Corporation and holds over 50 U.S. patents related to telomerase activation. His company, Sierra Sciences, is dedicated to finding solutions that could reverse aging at the genetic level.

Dr. Andrews has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries, including The Immortalists, where he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey.

🔗 Website: https://sierrasci.com/ 🎬 The Immortalists Movie: https://theimmortalists.com/watch/ 📝 Sign the Best Choice Medicine Petition: https://www.bestchoicemedicine.com/

🧬✨ Introducing Aevum Labs: The Future of Longevity Science

Aevum is a cutting-edge biotech company revolutionising the science of ageing by targeting the immune system’s role in longevity. Backed by world-class research, Aevum is dedicated to developing science-driven solutions that support cellular health, resilience, and optimal aging.

🌱 Flagship Product: Re:juvenate Pro

Aevum’s premier supplement, Re:juvenate Pro, is designed to fortify the immune system, promote cellular repair, and support longevity with the most powerful bioactive compounds.

Key Benefits:

  • Cellular Repair – Supports immune pathways to reduce inflammation and enhance recovery.
  • Immune Defense – Features lactoferrin, lactoperoxidase, and immunoglobulins to fight off pathogens, viruses, and bacteria.
  • Gut & Microbiome Health – Strengthens body barriers, improving digestion and overall immunity.

Formulated with cutting-edge longevity research and manufactured to the highest standards, Re:juvenate Pro is the ultimate daily defense against ageing.

💡Shop Now: Re:juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

✨ Find Out More: Aevum Labs

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this fascinating first instalment of a three-part series, we dive deep into the groundbreaking world of telomere science with Dr. Bill Andrews, a pioneering researcher in the field of ageing and longevity. Known for his revolutionary work on telomeres and their role in cellular aging, Dr. Andrews shares insights into how his research is paving the way for the ultimate goal: curing aging.

Dr. Andrews, the founder of Sierra Sciences, has dedicated his life to understanding the root causes of ageing at the molecular level. This episode covers the basics of telomeres, the science behind their shortening, and why maintaining telomere length is essential for longevity and disease prevention.

Key Discussion Points:

  1. What Are Telomeres?

    • Telomeres are protective caps at the ends of chromosomes that safeguard our genetic material during cell division.
    • As we age, telomeres shorten, leading to cellular dysfunction and ageing.
    • Why Telomeres Matter in Aging:

    • Telomere shortening is a major driver of ageing and age-related diseases.

    • Dr. Andrews explains the link between telomeres and cellular senescence, inflammation, and chronic illnesses.
    • Dr. Bill Andrews' Mission:

    • The story behind Sierra Sciences, a biotechnology company dedicated to discovering drugs that activate the telomerase enzyme.

    • Telomerase can rebuild and lengthen telomeres, potentially reversing cellular aging.
    • The Science of Telomerase Activation:

    • Current progress in identifying compounds that safely activate telomerase.

    • Challenges and breakthroughs in the quest to develop anti-ageing therapies.
    • Ethics and Implications of Curing Aging:

    • Dr. Andrews discusses the societal, ethical, and philosophical implications of extending human lifespan.

    • Addressing misconceptions about anti-ageing science.

What You Will Learn:

  • The fundamental role of telomeres in ageing and disease.
  • How telomerase activation could revolutionise health and longevity.
  • The current state of telomere research and its future potential.
  • The challenges and ethical questions surrounding anti-ageing technologies.

Don’t miss the next episode in this series, where Dr. Andrews delves deeper into telomerase activation and the latest breakthroughs in curing aging. Subscribe to "Pushing the Limits" and share this episode with anyone passionate about health, science, and longevity!

Bio:

Dr. Bill Andrews is a molecular biologist, inventor, and renowned expert in the field of telomere science. He has over three decades of experience in biotech, including significant contributions to telomerase research. Dr. Andrews holds over 50 U.S. patents related to telomerase activation and has authored numerous scientific papers. Through his work at Sierra Sciences, he aims to unlock the secrets of human longevity and help people live healthier, longer lives.

As a scientist, athlete, and executive, Bill continually pushes the envelope and challenges convention. He has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries on the topic of life extension including, most recently, the movie The Immortalists in which he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey.

Bill has been a medical researcher in biotech since 1981, focusing on cancer, heart disease, and inflammation research, though his passion has always been ageing. In the early-to-mid 1990s, while at Geron Corporation, Bill led the research to discover both the RNA and protein components of the human enzyme called telomerase. This enzyme is responsible for preventing telomeres from shortening in human reproductive cells, and this is why our children are born younger than we are even though they come from our old cells. Inducing this enzyme to lengthen telomeres in all our cells, not just our reproductive cells, to reverse aging and declining health due to aging, is the principal goal of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings.

Website: https://sierrasci.com/

The Immortalists Movie: https://theimmortalists.com/watch/

Best Choice Medicine petition, that you can sign today: https://www.bestchoicemedicine.com/

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I have my very good friend and world renown cellular health expert, longevity specialist and orthopedic surgeon Dr Elizabeth Yurth (MD, ABPMR, ABAARM, FAARM, FAARFM, FSSRP) of the Boulder Longevity Institute to guest. Locked away in a vault somewhere deep inside the Boulder Longevity Institute lies the secret everyone wishes they could get their hands on – the supplement routine of Dr. Elizabeth Yurth. As Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of BLI, clients and non-clients alike long to know what perfect blend of supplementation Dr. Yurth uses. Someone in this position must have it down pat! Well, the disappointing answer is: One size does not fit all. What suits the current lifestyle, biology, and needs of Dr. Yurth may be a far cry from the needs of other individuals. We are all unique, and alas, so are our supplement requirements. However Dr. Yurth does offer an overview of supplements that are beneficial to virtually everyone. The areas of cell membrane, gut, and mitochondrial health are key focus points when it comes to more generalised selection of appropriate supplements. For those who are looking to reach a solid baseline that promotes health and longevity, these daily supplements could be the answer. As always, we remind that every individual is different, and you should consult with a physician before starting any new health routines. Dr. Elizabeth Yurth Bio Elizabeth Yurth, MD is Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of Boulder Longevity Institute, where she has been providing Tomorrow's Medicine Today to her clients since 2006. Dr. Yurth obtained her Medical Degree from the University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine, completed her residency at the University of California – Irvine, and her Fellowship in Sports and Spine Medicine from Stanford-affiliated Sports Orthopedics and Rehabilitation (SOAR) in Palo Alto, CA. Along with her 30 years as a practicing orthopedist specializing in sports and spine medicine, Dr. Yurth has made it her mission to learn and share the latest scientific research on how to truly heal the body at the cellular level. She is Fellowship trained in Anti-Aging, Regenerative, and Cellular Medicine and has completed +500 hours of CME training focused on Longevity, Nutrition, Epigenetics, Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy, Regenerative Peptide Treatments, and Regenerative Orthopedic Procedures. You can reach out to Dr Yurth and her team at www.boulderlongevity.com 📚 Healthspan Hacks Course

Join renowned cellular medicine expert Elizabeth Yurth, MD and ultra-endurance athlete turned health optimisation consultant, Lisa Tamati for an educational interview series on “How Not To Die”

Healthspan Hacks aims to provide a holistic look at all the pieces of the longevity puzzle - that is, how to live as long and healthy as we can.

With the four pillars of resiliency, education, research, and action, we can grasp control of our health in a way many might say is not possible.

🌟 Sign Up Today: Healthspan Hacks Course

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Welcome to a Groundbreaking Series on Immune Health with Aevum Labs!

After over two years of development and backed by 15 years of clinical research, we're thrilled to introduce our flagship product - Re:Juvenate.—a revolutionary product targeting immune, gut, and cellular health. In this first episode, we speak with Dr. Rod Claycomb, co-founder of Quantec Ltd, to explore the science behind one of Re:Juvenate's key ingredients, IDP (Immune Defense Protein).

About Aevum Labs

Founded on a decade of research into aging, Aevum Labs targets immunosenescence, one of the core hallmarks of aging. We aim to offer a safe, effective solution for all, from the elderly to the young, focusing on immune, gut, and cellular health.

The Science of Aging and Immunosenescence

As we age, our immune system undergoes a decline in function known as immunosenescence. This process includes:

  • Thymic Involution: Reduced T cell production.
  • Reduced Immune Cells: Impaired proliferation of immune cells.
  • Cytokine Dysregulation: Increased chronic inflammation or "inflammaging."
  • Telomere Shortening: Accelerated cellular aging due to immune decline.

Increased Susceptibility to Infections and Diseases: Including poor vaccine responses, higher cancer risk, and autoimmune issues.

Re:Juvenate Formula Ingredients:

  • IDP (Immune Defense Protein): A bioactive whey protein complex from pasture-fed New Zealand milk, supporting microbiome health with selective antimicrobial activity.

    • Cellular Repair: Enhances mucosal immunity for tissue healing.
    • Immune Support: Bolsters mucosal immunity and antimicrobial peptide activity.
    • Gut Health: Promotes gut barrier integrity and reduces inflammation.
    • Immunel: A bioactive peptide from bovine colostrum whey, enhancing immune response and cellular repair.

    • Cellular Repair: Activates macrophages for tissue regeneration.

    • Immune Support: Enhances natural killer cells and macrophages.
    • Gut Health: Supports immune surveillance in the gut.
    • Rosemary Extract (20% Carnosic Acid): A potent antioxidant aiding in cellular protection and immune function.

    • Cellular Repair: Neutralises free radicals for tissue regeneration.

    • Immune Support: Modulates inflammatory responses.
    • Gut Health: Reduces oxidative stress and inflammation in the gut.
    • New Zealand Kawakawa: Modulates cytokines to reduce inflammation and enhance immune health.

    • Cellular Repair: Supports healing through anti-inflammatory effects.

    • Immune Support: Regulates immune responses.
    • Gut Health: Helps maintain gut homeostasis.

The Team and Backstory

Introduced by Lisa Tamati, with contributions from experts like Peter Lehrke Biochemist and Ceo, Dr. Yurth of the Boulder Longevity Institute, Dr. Rod Claycomb of Quantec, and Mike Eyres of Pharma NZ, ensuring a professional yet accessible formula for longevity.

Dive deeper into each ingredient in future interviews.

For now you can:

🌟 Shop now: Re:Juvenate Pro by Aevum Labs

🌐 Check out more information at: Aevum Labs

BIO

Dr Rod Claycomb is the co-founder of Quantec Ltd, a New Zealand company specialising in the development and commercialisation of high value bioactive milk proteins. He has an extensive background in the dairy industry, filling roles from pure and applied research through commercialisation.

Prior to Quantec, he was the founding CEO of Sensortec Ltd, a company set up to develop and commercialise sensor technologies for the measurement of biological components in fluids, particularly milk. He moved to NZ in 1999 to become the Director of R&D for DEC International NZ, Ltd, managing developments for the Waikato Milking Systems brand.

His areas of expertise include bioactives, biosensors, agritechnology and commercialisation.

Dr Claycomb holds a PhD from the University of California, Davis in Biological and Agricultural Engineering. He is the author of numerous publications and inventor on nine patent families.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this eye-opening episode, we dive deep into the world of post-concussion syndrome (PCS) and brain health with Dr. Mark Allen of Cognitive FX, a leading expert in brain repair. PCS affects millions worldwide, yet many are left frustrated with lingering symptoms like brain fog, fatigue, and headaches. Dr. Allen shares his groundbreaking approach that combines the latest in neuroscience with a holistic, multidisciplinary method to treat and heal the brain.

Key topics include:

  • Why Functional MRI (fMRI) is a Game Changer: How it identifies hidden brain dysfunction and tailors treatments to individual needs.
  • Integrated Healing Strategies: From vestibular rehabilitation and neuromuscular therapy to high-intensity interval training (HIIT) programs designed for the brain.
  • Cognitive and Sensory Therapy: Rewiring the brain through targeted cognitive tasks and sensory integration work.
  • The Role of Neurointegration and Occupational Therapy: Enhancing brain-body connections for long-term recovery.
  • Timely Treatment vs. Old Injuries: Why starting treatment early yields the best results, but even years-old injuries can still benefit significantly from intervention.

Dr. Allen explains how this multifaceted approach not only addresses symptoms but helps restore overall brain function, enabling patients to return to their lives with clarity, focus, and vitality.

Whether you're dealing with a recent injury or have struggled with PCS for years, this episode is a must-watch for anyone seeking answers and actionable solutions.

🤝 Connect with Dr. Mark Allen: Learn more about Dr. Mark Allen's expertise in cognitive rehabilitation and neuroplasticity by visiting his website. Explore his latest insights and groundbreaking approaches to improving brain health and function.

🌐 Website: cognitivefxusa.com BIO

Co-Founder, Neuroscientist

Mark D. Allen earned a PhD in Cognitive Science at Johns Hopkins University with post-doctoral training in Cognitive Neuroscience and Functional Neuroimaging at the University of Washington. As a cofounder, Dr. Allen developed the scientific foundation and technological innovations that make treatment at Cognitive Fx unique and exceptional. Dr. Allen is a pioneer in the development of fMRI for use in clinical settings.

Significant scientific contributions include the development of neuroimaging biomarkers for post-concussion diagnosis and treatment and theoretical work in the pathophysiology of chronic post-concussion symptoms. Specifically, his research led to the discovery of the key role of neurovascular coupling dysfunction in post-concussion syndrome. Significant clinical contributions include fMRI patient assessment based on individual neuroanatomy analysis—he has performed over 10,000 such assessments to date.

Additional clinical contributions include the development of a unique high intensity interval training protocol of cardiovascular exercise that targets restoration of neuronal function and cerebrovascular responsivity. Most recently, Dr, Allen has co-engineered a machine learning-based program for functional neuroanatomical discovery, and highly advanced fMRI analysis techniques which provide a more reliable and standardized method of fMRI analysis on concussion patients.

🎯 Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

📌 Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

🔬 Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

🤝 Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

🌟 Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimise your life.

🎥 Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

📚 Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

💪 Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

🔴 Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

🎙️Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this fascinating episode, we sit down with the Founder of Kenetik Ketones, Devon Price to explore the cutting-edge world of exogenous ketones.

Whether you're looking to optimise brain health, help after traumatic brain injury, concussions, alzheimers, dementia or just to enhance athletic performance, or unlock a cleaner energy source for your body, exogenous ketones could be the game-changer you've been waiting for.

We dive into:

  • What are exogenous ketones? Understanding how they mimic the natural state of ketosis and provide an immediate energy source for your brain and body.
  • Brain health and repair: Discover how ketones support cognitive function, protect neurons, and aid in recovery from brain injuries.
  • Clean energy source: Why ketones provide a more sustainable and efficient fuel than glucose.
  • Weight loss and metabolic health: Learn how ketones help reduce hunger, support fat burning, and improve insulin sensitivity.
  • Athletic performance: Enhance endurance, recovery, and overall physical output with ketones.
  • Lowering inflammation: Explore the anti-inflammatory benefits of ketones, helping to protect against chronic conditions and reduce systemic and neuroinflammation.
  • Insulin resistance: How ketones assist in managing blood sugar levels and supporting those with metabolic syndrome or prediabetes.
  • The science behind Kenetik: The innovative research and formulation that sets Kenetik apart in the world of exogenous ketones.

Devon Price shares his expertise on how Kenetik Ketones can revolutionise your health, helping you feel more energised, focused, and resilient every day. Whether you're new to ketones or already a fan, this episode offers practical insights and inspiration to take your wellness to the next level.

Key Quotes from the Episode:

  • "Ketones are not just a fuel; they're a signal to your body to repair and rejuvenate."
  • "Kenetik provides the cleanest, most effective ketones to help you unlock peak performance and brainpower."

Who This Episode is For:

  • Health enthusiasts seeking clean energy and metabolic health.
  • Athletes and fitness lovers looking to enhance performance and recovery.
  • Individuals with brain health concerns, including those recovering from brain injuries or experiencing cognitive decline.
  • Anyone curious about the benefits of ketosis without following a strict ketogenic diet.

🌟 Get your Kenetik Pro Ketones here: Kenetik Pro Advanced Ketone Formula 🌟 BIO

Devon is a scientist, engineer, and entrepreneur dedicated to improving health and wellness. He holds two master’s degrees from MIT and completed his undergraduate studies at UC Berkeley. With a strong background in business and healthcare, Devon has worked at leading institutions such as Stanford University and Massachusetts General Hospital, where he developed innovative systems to enhance care delivery.

An avid CrossFit athlete for over 12 years and a father of three young boys, Devon is deeply passionate about empowering others to lead healthier lives.

Five years ago, Devon and his co-founder, Peter, founded Kenetik with a mission to make ketones more accessible to everyone. Ketones are a vital nutrient that has become scarce in modern diets, where high sugar consumption, sedentary lifestyles, and the rise of chronic health conditions prevail. Kenetik provides a plant-based, great-tasting solution that delivers ketones conveniently, helping people unlock the physical and cognitive benefits of this powerful energy source.

🌐 Website: DrinkKenetik.com

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we sit down with the brilliant Dr. Sam Shay, a functional and lifestyle medicine expert with over 20 years of experience. Dr. Shay shares his deep knowledge of functional medicine testing and genetic testing, explaining why preventative medicine is the key to optimizing health and avoiding chronic disease. We delve into how genetic testing can transform your approach to health by tailoring your diet, exercise, sleep, work habits, and overall lifestyle to your unique genetic blueprint.

Dr. Shay emphasizes the need to move away from the outdated "reactive" model of healthcare and embrace proactive strategies to unlock your health potential. Whether you're looking to improve your energy, manage stress, or optimize your performance, this episode offers actionable insights to help you live your best life.

What You'll Learn:

  • Why functional medicine testing provides a comprehensive view of your health.
  • The power of genetic testing to personalize your diet, fitness, and lifestyle.
  • How to use your genetic profile to enhance sleep quality and productivity.
  • The importance of addressing root causes, not just symptoms.
  • Practical tips to shift from reactive to preventative healthcare.

🌐 Connect with Dr. Sam Shay: Discover more about Dr. Shay's approach to personalized health and book a consultation via his website: drsamshay.co.nz.

📌 Work with Lisa to unlock your genetic code. Testing and interpretation available reach out to support@lisatamati.com or grab your DNA Test here:

🔗 Links: Visit Dr. Shay's website for resources, blog posts, and testing options: drsamshay.co.nz.

📲 Follow & Subscribe:

BIO

Dr. Sam Shay, DC, IFMCP, solves health puzzles for busy, health-conscious parents, entrepreneurs, and adults on the Spectrum so they can exit survival mode and re-enter community by improving resilience, energy, and brain health through personalized, data-driven genetics and lab testing. Dr. Sam walked his own health journey from being chronically unwell from age 6-18, including severe fatigue, anxiety, digestive problems, chronic pain, severe insomnia, sugar addiction, video game addiction, excessive coffee, depression, and poor nutrition. He took control of his health starting as a teenager and dedicated his life to natural medicine. Known as the friendly "lab nerd", Dr. Sam specializes in functional lab and genetics analysis for data-driven results.

Dr. Sam is also a Stand-Up comic who uses comedy as "edutainment" on his Youtube Channel, along with his other functional testing teachings. His primary focus in comedy is to educate the public on what it's like to be on the Spectrum, specifically Aspergers.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we dive deep into the science of muscle health with Dr. Chris Meletis, exploring why maintaining muscle mass is critical as we age and how MYOS MD's revolutionary supplement, Fortetropin, can play a pivotal role in combating muscle loss.

Key Topics Covered: 1. The Importance of Muscle for Longevity:

* Muscles act as the *currency of longevity*, influencing metabolism, physical functionality, myokine production, hormone balance, and overall musculoskeletal health.
* After age 40, muscle loss (sarcopenia) accelerates, with lean body mass decreasing by 1-2% annually and strength declining 1.5-5% per year. This impacts mobility, independence, and systemic health.
  1. Understanding Myostatin and Its Role:

    • Myostatin is a natural protein that inhibits muscle growth, preventing excess muscle accumulation.
    • While beneficial in early development, elevated myostatin levels with age, injury, or illness can exacerbate muscle wasting and hinder recovery.
    • How MYOS MD's Fortetropin Helps:

    • Fortetropin, derived from fertilized chicken egg yolk, is clinically proven to lower myostatin levels and support muscle protein synthesis.

    • Benefits include:
      • Increased muscle mass and strength.
      • Reduced muscle breakdown.
      • Enhanced recovery after injury or surgery.
    • Clinical trials show an 18% increase in protein synthesis in older adults after just 21 days of supplementation without changes to diet or exercise.
    • Applications of Fortetropin:

    • Protecting lean body mass during weight loss, especially with GLP-1 treatments or bariatric surgery.

    • Supporting recovery from injuries or surgeries where muscle atrophy is a concern.
    • Enhancing physical performance for athletes and active individuals.
    • Practical Insights and Dosing:

    • Typical starting dose: 6.6 grams per day.

    • Easy to incorporate into daily routines—mix with shakes, yogurt, or water.
    • Pair with amino acids, CoQ10, and a protein-rich diet for optimal results.
    • The Bigger Picture:

    • Dr. Meletis explains how muscle health impacts metabolic function, bone density, and overall aging.

    • Strategies to combat sarcopenia include resistance training, balanced nutrition, and innovative interventions like Fortetropin.

Resources: * Learn more about MYOS MD and Fortetropin: MYOS MD Official Site. * Explore Dr. Chris Meletis's work: Dr. Meletis's Official Site. * Clinical studies referenced during the podcast are available on the MYOS MD website.

This conversation is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to age healthfully, maintain their independence, and optimize their body's functionality. Don't miss it!

BIO

Dr. Chris D. Meletis, ND Dr. Chris Meletis is an educator, international author, and lecturer. His mission is “Changing World’s Health One Person at a Time.” Dr. Meletis has authored 18 books and over 200 national scientific articles in journals, including Natural Health, Alternative and Complementary Therapies, Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, Life Extension, NDNR, Natural Pharmacy, and articles on PubMed.

Dr. Meletis served as Dean of Naturopathic Medicine and Chief Medical Officer for seven years for the National College of Naturopathic Medicine (now the National University of Natural Medicine). The American Association of Naturopathic Physicians awarded him the 2003 Physician of the Year. He has a deep passion for helping the underprivileged and spearheaded the creation of 16 free natural medicine healthcare clinics in the Portland metropolitan area of Oregon.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this fascinating episode, we're joined by Dr. Dayan Goodenowe, a visionary neuroscientist and founder of Prodrome Sciences, to explore the groundbreaking potential of plasmalogens in restoring health and optimizing longevity. Dr. Goodenowe's work is transforming how we approach chronic conditions, such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, autism, multiple sclerosis (MS), long COVID, and cardiovascular issues. We discuss the role of plasmalogens, Prodrome Sciences' advanced diagnostic tools, and how his Restorative Health Centre is making these innovations accessible for proactive health management.

Episode Highlights

  1. What Are Plasmalogens, and Why Are They Essential? Dr. Goodenowe explains the critical role of plasmalogens, unique lipids that maintain cell membrane integrity, support the immune system, and regulate oxidative stress. These lipids, particularly abundant in the brain and heart, are essential for neuron function, immune resilience, and cardiovascular health. Research shows that low levels of plasmalogens are linked to neurodegenerative diseases, immune dysfunction, and other chronic conditions, positioning plasmalogens as a key factor in preventive and restorative health.

  2. Prodrome Scan: Personalized Health Insights Through Plasmalogen Measurement The Prodrome Scan, a pioneering health assessment tool developed by Dr. Goodenowe, measures plasmalogen levels to detect potential deficiencies early on. This scan provides practitioners and individuals with insights into the body's biochemical state, allowing them to address risks for conditions like cognitive decline, heart disease, and immune system issues. By identifying these risks ahead of time, the Prodrome Scan empowers users to take proactive steps to preserve health and delay or prevent disease onset.

  3. How Plasmalogens Impact Neurodegenerative Conditions In neurodegenerative conditions such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, plasmalogen levels are typically depleted. Dr. Goodenowe explains how supplementing with plasmalogen precursors can protect neuron membranes, reduce oxidative damage, and improve brain function, potentially slowing or reversing disease progression. His products, Prodrome Glia (Omega-9) and Prodrome Neuro (Omega-3), are designed to target both glial cells and neurons, offering holistic support for cognitive and neurological resilience.

  4. Advanced Imaging and Diagnosis at the Restorative Health Centre Dr. Goodenowe's Restorative Health Centre takes health assessment and intervention to a new level by offering advanced MRI imaging, which includes proprietary scans for brain health. This cutting-edge imaging allows for detailed visualization of brain structures, which, combined with plasmalogen measurements, provides unparalleled insights into brain health and early indicators of neurodegenerative conditions. By integrating these advanced diagnostic tools, the centre allows for early, precise intervention, tailored to each person's needs.

  5. Training Practitioners in Restorative Medicine Dr. Goodenowe's work goes beyond patient care; he is dedicated to educating healthcare practitioners on the science of plasmalogens and restorative health. Prodrome Sciences offers an in-depth training program for practitioners to understand, interpret, and apply the Prodrome Scan and other tools in clinical practice. By training practitioners, Dr. Goodenowe is expanding the reach of this groundbreaking science, equipping professionals with knowledge and tools to better serve their patients with targeted, science-backed interventions.

  6. Applications Beyond Brain Health: Cancer, Autism, Long COVID, Dr. Goodenowe discusses the broader applications of plasmalogens beyond brain health, including in conditions like autism, where they support neural connectivity, and long COVID, where they strengthen immune function and resilience. Plasmalogens have anti-inflammatory properties that can aid recovery from chronic viral infections and help support the immune system in its defense against future challenges. He also discusses plasmalogens in cancer.

  7. Cardiovascular Benefits of Plasmalogens In addition to neurological and immune health, plasmalogens play a protective role in cardiovascular health. Plasmalogen supplementation supports heart cell function, improves lipid metabolism, and helps maintain the integrity of arterial walls, reducing the risk of cardiovascular events. Dr. Goodenowe explains how Prodrome Glia's Omega-9 plasmalogens can be especially beneficial for heart health.

  8. Phosphatidylcholine and Mitochondrial Support for Enhanced Cellular Health Dr. Goodenowe emphasizes the importance of phosphatidylcholine and mitochondrial health as complementary strategies for cellular resilience. Phosphatidylcholine strengthens cell membranes, while mitochondrial support through targeted nutrients enhances energy production, reducing cellular stress and aging markers.

  9. How Plasmalogens Fit Into the Larger Picture of Restorative Health Throughout the interview, Dr. Goodenowe illustrates a unique perspective on health by focusing on restoration rather than simply managing symptoms. By measuring biomarkers like plasmalogens, we can intervene before symptoms manifest, thereby preventing the onset of chronic diseases and supporting longevity.

Key Takeaways: Plasmalogens - are essential for cellular and neurological health, with depletion linked to many chronic conditions. Prodrome Scan - is a groundbreaking tool that assesses plasmalogen levels, enabling early intervention. Restorative Health Centre - offers advanced MRI imaging and personalized diagnostics for comprehensive health assessment. Prodrome Glia and Prodrome Neuro - supplements provide tailored plasmalogen support for glial and neuronal health. Dr. Goodenowe's practitioner training program brings the science of plasmalogens to a wider audience, equipping clinicians to improve patient outcomes.

Links: You can find out more about Dr Goodenowe at drgoodenowe.com and www.prodrome.com Practitioner training: https://prodrome.com/pages/prodrome-practitioners

To buy your plasmalogens go to https://prodrome.com/vrszjgeo and use Code LisaT25 to get 25% off your purchases. BIO Dr. Goodenowe is a PhD neuroscientist, biochemist, synthetic organic chemist, inventor, and clinical research expert. In 1999, he invented and patented a revolutionary ion cyclotron resonance mass spectrometry technology that, for the first time in history, made it possible to comprehensively monitor human biochemistry.

Using this advanced technology, Dr. Goodenowe analyzed blood samples from tens of thousands of persons of all ages, of all races, and from multiple countries. The biochemistry of healthy persons was compared to persons suffering from disease. A diverse range of over 20 diseases from autism to dementia, and from colon cancer to heart disease was studied. The biochemistry of young versus old, and all-cause mortality was studied. This research led to his discovery that early mortality and each human disease has a biochemical prodrome.

These discoveries led to an extensive patent portfolio of diagnostic tests for the early detection and screening of diseases such as specific cancers (colon, pancreatic, ovarian, breast, lung, prostate, and many more), autism, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, ALS, Alzheimer's, dementia, bipolar disease, schizophrenia, unipolar depression, cardiovascular disease, and others. Dr. Goodenowe created the ProdromeSCAN™ blood test which measures all of the key prodrome biomarkers and offers advanced laboratory test interpretation training for health practitioners.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

  • Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode, we will have the part two of Carol Peterson' episode.

Carol Peterson from The Wellness by Design Project , an expert in bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT) and women's health. Carol shares her in-depth knowledge and experience with the powerful benefits of progesterone and BHRT for a wide range of health issues. From treating conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, perimenopause, and menopausal symptoms to addressing miscarriages, heavy bleeding, and hormonal imbalances, Carol explains how progesterone plays a key role in improving both physical and mental health. Join us as we dive into the science behind Progesterone and BHRT, explore how it supports brain health, assists in managing thyroid health, and even has promising uses for brain injuries and trauma recovery. Whether you're looking to learn more about hormone health or seeking holistic options for managing reproductive and neurological health challenges, this conversation is packed with valuable insights. Key Discussion Points: 1. Introduction to Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy (BHRT):

  • What is BHRT, and how does it differ from traditional hormone therapy?
  • Overview of progesterone's role in the body and why bioidentical hormones are considered a natural choice for many.

  • Progesterone for Women's and Men's Health Issues

  • How BHRT is used to treat conditions like endometriosis and fibroids.
  • Benefits for perimenopausal and menopausal women, including relief from hot flashes, mood swings, and sleep issues.
  • Discussing its impact on menstrual irregularities, including heavy bleeding, and its effectiveness in reducing the risk of endometrial hyperplasia. - How men can also use Progesterone and the benefits they will get.

  • Supporting Fertility and Pregnancy with Progesterone:

  • The role of progesterone in supporting early pregnancy and its use in preventing miscarriages.
  • Insights into how BHRT can assist women struggling with fertility due to hormonal imbalances. 4. Progesterone for Brain Health and Emotional Well-being:
  • How progesterone can positively impact brain health by reducing anxiety, depression, and mood swings.
  • Progesterone's neuroprotective effects and how it may play a role in managing brain injuries and cognitive decline.

  • Linking Progesterone with Thyroid Health:

  • How balanced hormones, particularly progesterone, support optimal thyroid function and overall metabolic health.
  • The synergistic relationship between progesterone and other hormones like estrogen and how it affects thyroid balance.

  • Progesterone's Role in Trauma Recovery and Brain Injuries: -

  • Emerging research on using progesterone to aid in the recovery of brain injuries.
  • Carol's insights into how BHRT is becoming an adjunct treatment option for neurological health and trauma recovery. How powerful it is also for men.

  • Considerations for Starting BHRT:*

  • The importance of working with a knowledgeable practitioner to tailor BHRT to individual needs.
  • Dosage, types of progesterone (creams, pills, and other forms), and how to choose the right form for different health needs.

  • Safety and Long-Term Benefits of Progesterone Therapy:

  • Addressing common concerns and myths about progesterone and hormone therapy.
  • Understanding the long-term impact on women's health and the importance of monitoring and adjusting therapy over time.

  • Answering questions about how to start with BHRT, lifestyle factors that support hormone balance, and Carol's tips on optimizing hormone health naturally.

  • Where to learn more about Carol's work and The Wellness by Design Project.

Resources Mentioned: * Visit The Wellness by Design Project for more information about Carol Peterson's work, hormone health resources, and personalized support. * Books, articles, and additional educational materials on progesterone and bioidentical hormone replacement therapy.

If you're inspired by this episode, please share it with anyone you know who might benefit from learning more about hormone health and the potential of Progesterone and BHRT. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and follow us on YouTube for more expert interviews like this one. *Connect with Us: Website: www.lisatamati.com Instagram: @Lisa Tamati Subscribe & Leave a Review If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our channel and leave a review to support more empowering health conversations.

BIO

Carol Petersen is an accomplished compounding pharmacist with decades of experience helping patients improve their quality of life through bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. She graduated from the University of Wisconsin School of Pharmacy and is a Certified Nutritional Practitioner. Her passion to optimize health and commitment to compounding is evident in her involvement with organizations including the International College of Integrated Medicine and the American College of Apothecaries, the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M), American Pharmacists Association and the Alliance for Pharmacy Compounding She was also the founder and first chair for the Compounding Special Interest Group with the American Pharmacists Association. She chairs the Integrated Medicine Consortium, an umbrella group for complementary medicine organizations. She cohosts a radio program "Take Charge of your Health" in the greater New York area. She is on the Medical Advisory Boards for the Centre for Menstrual Cycle and Ovulation Research (CeMCOR.ca) and the Institute for Bioidentical Medicine (IOBIM.org). She also writes and edits for A4M's website www.worldhealth.net and is a coproducer of "Immortality Now" podcasts and serves forum.worldhealth.net

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we're thrilled to welcome Carol Peterson from The Wellness by Design Project, an expert in bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT) and women's health. Carol shares her in-depth knowledge and experience with the powerful benefits of progesterone and BHRT for a wide range of health issues. From treating conditions like endometriosis, fibroids, perimenopause, and menopausal symptoms to addressing miscarriages, heavy bleeding, and hormonal imbalances, Carol explains how progesterone plays a key role in improving both physical and mental health.

Join us as we dive into the science behind Progesterone and BHRT, explore how it supports brain health, assists in managing thyroid health, and even has promising uses for brain injuries and trauma recovery. Whether you're looking to learn more about hormone health or seeking holistic options for managing reproductive and neurological health challenges, this conversation is packed with valuable insights.

Key Discussion Points:

  1. Introduction to Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy (BHRT):

  2. What is BHRT, and how does it differ from traditional hormone therapy?

  3. Overview of progesterone's role in the body and why bioidentical hormones are considered a natural choice for many.

  4. Progesterone for Women's and Men's Health Issues

  5. How BHRT is used to treat conditions like endometriosis and fibroids.

  6. Benefits for perimenopausal and menopausal women, including relief from hot flashes, mood swings, and sleep issues.
  7. Discussing its impact on menstrual irregularities, including heavy bleeding, and its effectiveness in reducing the risk of endometrial hyperplasia.
  8. How men can also use Progesterone and the benefits they will get.

  9. Supporting Fertility and Pregnancy with Progesterone:

  10. The role of progesterone in supporting early pregnancy and its use in preventing miscarriages.

  11. Insights into how BHRT can assist women struggling with fertility due to hormonal imbalances.

  12. Progesterone for Brain Health and Emotional Well-being:

  13. How progesterone can positively impact brain health by reducing anxiety, depression, and mood swings.

  14. Progesterone's neuroprotective effects and how it may play a role in managing brain injuries and cognitive decline.

  15. Linking Progesterone with Thyroid Health:

  16. How balanced hormones, particularly progesterone, support optimal thyroid function and overall metabolic health.

  17. The synergistic relationship between progesterone and other hormones like estrogen and how it affects thyroid balance.

  18. Progesterone's Role in Trauma Recovery and Brain Injuries: -

  19. Emerging research on using progesterone to aid in the recovery of brain injuries.

  20. Carol's insights into how BHRT is becoming an adjunct treatment option for neurological health and trauma recovery. How powerful it is also for men.

  21. Considerations for Starting BHRT:*

  22. The importance of working with a knowledgeable practitioner to tailor BHRT to individual needs.

  23. Dosage, types of progesterone (creams, pills, and other forms), and how to choose the right form for different health needs.

  24. Safety and Long-Term Benefits of Progesterone Therapy:

  25. Addressing common concerns and mythsabout progesterone and hormone therapy.

  26. Understanding the long-term impact on women's health and the importance of monitoring and adjusting therapy over time.

  27. Answering questions about how to start with BHRT, lifestyle factors that support hormone balance, and Carol's tips on optimizing hormone health naturally.

  28. Where to learn more about Carol's work and The Wellness by Design Project.

Resources Mentioned: - Visit The Wellness by Design Project for more information about Carol Peterson's work, hormone health resources, and personalized support. - Books, articles, and additional educational materials on progesterone and bioidentical hormone replacement therapy.

If you're inspired by this episode, please share it with anyone you know who might benefit from learning more about hormone health and the potential of Progesterone and BHRT. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and follow us on YouTube for more expert interviews like this one.

*Connect with Us: Website: www.lisatamati.com Instagram: @Lisa Tamati

Subscribe & Leave a Review If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our channel and leave a review to support more empowering health conversations.


This episode is packed with practical insights and expert guidance on how progesterone and bioidentical hormone replacement therapy can transform health across various life stages. Don't miss out on this invaluable resource for women's health!

BIO

Carol Petersen is an accomplished compounding pharmacist with decades of experience helping patients improve their quality of life through bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. She graduated from the University of Wisconsin School of Pharmacy and is a Certified Nutritional Practitioner. Her passion to optimize health and commitment to compounding is evident in her involvement with organizations including the International College of Integrated Medicine and the American College of Apothecaries, the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M), American Pharmacists Association and the Alliance for Pharmacy Compounding She was also the founder and first chair for the Compounding Special Interest Group with the American Pharmacists Association. She chairs the Integrated Medicine Consortium, an umbrella group for complementary medicine organizations. She cohosts a radio program "Take Charge of your Health" in the greater New York area. She is on the Medical Advisory Boards for the Centre for Menstrual Cycle and Ovulation Research (CeMCOR.ca) and the Institute for Bioidentical Medicine (IOBIM.org). She also writes and edits for A4M's website www.worldhealth.net and is a coproducer of "Immortality Now" podcasts and serves forum.worldhealth.net

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Melvin Nario, MD, HMD, an integrative and homeopathic medical doctor with a diverse background that spans conventional and alternative medicine. With his training in both traditional Western medicine and homeopathy, Dr. Nario takes a holistic approach to healthcare, focusing on personalized treatments that address the root causes of illness. He is particularly known for his expertise in peptide therapies, anti-aging medicine, and integrative oncology, combining cutting-edge science with natural healing methods. Episode Highlights: * Dr. Nario's Medical Journey: Learn about Dr. Nario's unique path, from his medical degree at the University of Santo Tomas in the Philippines to becoming a licensed homeopathic doctor in Nevada, integrating both worlds of medicine. * Peptide Therapy: Discover the exciting potential of peptide therapies in enhancing healing, boosting immune function, and supporting anti-aging. Dr. Nario shares how these therapies can regulate hormones, improve cognitive function, and promote tissue repair. * Integrative Oncology: Dr. Nario discusses his work at Forsythe Cancer Center and Bio Integrative Health Center, where he uses a holistic approach in treating cancer, combining integrative methods such as IV nutrient therapies and botanicals with conventional treatments. * IV Nutrient Therapies: Learn about the powerful effects of IV therapies, including NAD+ for cellular repair and anti-aging, chelation for detoxification, and nutritional IVs for overall health optimization. * Homeopathy & Classical Medicine: How Dr. Nario blends homeopathy with acute and chronic care, giving patients personalized, non-toxic options for healing and long-term wellness. * Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine: Dr. Nario shares insights from his work in the field of anti-aging, discussing how modern advancements like peptide therapies and IV nutrients are transforming the landscape of longevity medicine.

Key Takeaways: - The science behind peptide therapies and their role in anti-aging, cognitive enhancement, and immune support. - How Dr. Nario combines traditional Western medicine with holistic approaches to provide a comprehensive care plan for his patients. - The potential of integrative oncology to enhance conventional cancer treatments with natural and supportive therapies. - Why IV nutrient therapies are growing in popularity for both disease treatment and preventive health. es. Connect with Dr. Melvin Nario: - Bio Integrative Health Center: https://www.facebook.com/biointegrativereno/ - Forsythe Cancer Center: https://www.drforsythe.com/ - Clearfield Medical Group: https://drclearfield.net/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=gmb Be sure to subscribe to our channel for more insightful conversations with experts in integrative and longevity medicine! BIO

Nario, Melvin Ibarra MD HMD Current Address: 6292 Dog Hollow Court Reno NV 89519, melvin_nario@yahoo.com Main Credentials: 1.) M. D. Degree Doctor of Medicine – University of Santo Tomas, Manila, Philippines 2.) Licensed Homeopathic Medical Doctor (MD HMD) – State of Nevada 3.) Internship - Residency Program in University of North Dakota, Bismarck Family Medicine 4.) Internship in University Of Santo Tomas Hospital, Philippines 5.) Doctor Of Medicine and B.S. Degree in Nursing, University of Santo Tomas, Manila 6.) Degree in Acute and Chronic Classical Homeopathy, British Institute of Homeopathy 7.) Former Medical Director – The Vitality Bar in Fitness For 10 Sparks, Nevada 8.) Former Medical Director of Bio Integrative Health Center International Reno, Nevada 9.) Visiting Physician – Forsythe Cancer Center and Clearfield Medical - Reno, Nevada 10.) Junior faculty physician – American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M) Women’s Hormone Course 11.) Vice President of the Nevada Homeopathic Board Of Examiners 12.) Licensed Advanced Nurse Practitioner and RN, Nevada 13.) Licensed RN – Philippines Certifications: 1.) ECFMG Certified 2.) Certified in the Fundamentals/Advanced Clinical Applications of IV Nutrient Therapies 3.) Certified Shoemaker Proficiency Partner practitioner for CIRS 4.) Academy of American Anti Aging Medicine Certifications – Peptide Therapy, integrative oncology, CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) 5.) IV Therapeutics Certified – NAD, Integrative Oncology, Botanicals, Antiaging, Chelation, Nutritional 6.) Institute for Functional Medicine - Member Work Experience 8/8/2023 – present: Visiting Physician Clearfield Medical, Reno, Nevada 6/2015 – present: Bio Integrative Health Center International Reno – Health Care Provider (MD HMD) 6/2018 – present: Visiting Physician – Forsythe Cancer Center - Forsythe Cancer Care Center Reno, Nevada

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this conversation, Lisa Tamati interviews Kyal Van Der Leest, a naturopath and formulator from Lvlup Health.

Kyal shares his personal journey, which began with his mother's cancer diagnosis, leading him to study nutrition and explore alternative therapies. The discussion covers the impact of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, the role of peptides in health, and the importance of quality sourcing in supplements.

Kyal also delves into the significance of zonulin in gut health and the effects of chronic inflammation on aging. In this conversation, Lisa Tamati and Kyal from LVLUP Health delve into the complexities of chronic inflammation, neuroprotective peptides, and the importance of effective detoxification strategies.

They discuss the role of liposomal delivery in enhancing peptide absorption, the significance of creatine and guanidinoacetic acid for brain health, and the intricate nature of methylation.

They also talk about liver health, detoxification pathways, binders, mold toxicity, the important of having strong barrier function in the gut and the blood brain barrier and cutting edge ingredients and molecules and peptides like:

  • dihexa
  • selank
  • bpc-157
  • TB500 fragments
  • p21
  • tudca
  • binders
  • globe artichoke
  • NACET
  • Guanoacetic acid
  • Larozotike
  • tribuytrin
  • GHK-cu
  • calcium d-glucarate
  • and more

The conversation also touches on the challenges of research in natural supplements, the health implications of mould exposure, and the necessity of hormonal balance through proper testing and supplementation.

Takeaways:

  • Kyal's journey into health began with his mother's cancer diagnosis.
  • Hyperbaric oxygen therapy can be beneficial in cancer treatment.
  • Peptides are naturally occurring compounds that have significant health benefits.
  • Quality sourcing of peptides is crucial to avoid contaminants.
  • Zonulin plays a key role in gut permeability and health.
  • Chronic inflammation is linked to accelerated aging.
  • Kyal emphasizes the importance of a metabolic approach to health.
  • Innovative formulations can simplify health protocols for patients.
  • The blood-brain barrier is critical for overall health.
  • Understanding the connection between gut health and brain health is essential. Chronic inflammation markers provide insights into systemic health.
  • Neuroprotective peptides can significantly enhance brain function.
  • Liposomal delivery systems improve the bioavailability of peptides.
  • Innovative products are emerging for neuroregeneration.
  • Creatine and guanidinoacetic acid are vital for brain energy.
  • Methylation processes are complex and require careful management.
  • Supporting liver detoxification pathways is essential for health.
  • Research on natural supplements is often limited and underfunded.
  • Mould exposure can lead to serious health issues.
  • Detoxification requires a comprehensive approach, not just diet.

Website: www.lvluphealth.com

Instagram: @lvluphealth

BIO

Kyal is a qualified Nutritionist and Naturopath with an obsession for health, fitness, functional medicine and human optimisation! Having worked in Health Food Stores, Gyms and Medical Clinics, Kyal has always been in the health field and has seen almost everything there is to see from varing perspectives - performance in the Gym, general health in the supplement store, and chronic illness at the medical clinic. Using this experience and his passion for supplementation and wellness, Kyal formulates LVLUP's products to serve very distinct purposes. Using only ingredients that scientifically and mechanistically makes sense, and what he knows WORKS from self-trial and self-experimentation so you can get the results that you pay for and expect!

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, Lisa Tamati discusses the complexities of brain injuries with her manager, Georgia Ferris. They explore various types of brain injuries, including traumatic and non-traumatic causes, and the importance of recognizing past injuries that may affect current health. The conversation delves into diagnostic methods, the role of nutrition, particularly the benefits of a ketogenic diet, and the significance of peptides and hyperbaric oxygen therapy in rehabilitation. Lisa emphasizes the need for lifestyle changes, including exercise and sleep hygiene, to support brain health and recovery

Takeaways

  • Brain injuries can be traumatic or non-traumatic, affecting many aspects of health.
  • Many people may not recognize past brain injuries that impact their current health.
  • Diagnostic methods for brain injuries include scans and hormone testing.
  • Nutrition plays a crucial role in brain rehabilitation, with a focus on whole foods.
  • The ketogenic diet can provide an alternative energy source for the brain.
  • Peptides are emerging as a significant treatment for brain recovery.
  • Hyperbaric oxygen therapy can reduce inflammation and promote healing.
  • Lifestyle changes, including exercise and sleep, are vital for brain health.
  • Environmental toxins can contribute to neuroinflammation and brain injuries.
  • A holistic approach is necessary for effective brain injury recovery.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" , Dr. David Furman, Director of the 1000 immunomes project, the world's largest longitudinal population-based study of immunology and aging at Stanford University and Associate Professor at the Buck Institute for Aging, Founder of Edifice Health and Cosmica Biosciences, discusses his extensive research in immunology, particularly focusing on the 1000 Immunomes Project, which aims to understand the immune system's role in aging. He emphasizes the importance of studying human biology over traditional animal models and introduces the concept of the Inflammation Age Clock as a new biomarker for aging. The discussion also covers the implications of systemic chronic inflammation in aging, the role of nutrition, and the potential for interventions to improve health span. Additionally, Dr. Furman shares insights into his work with NASA on accelerated aging in astronauts, highlighting the broader applications of his research in combating age-related diseases. Takeaways: * Dr. Furman aims to have a massive impact on human health. * The immune system plays a crucial role in aging. * Human studies provide better insights than animal models. * The Inflammation Age Clock is a new biomarker for aging. * Chronic inflammation is a key factor in age-related diseases. * Nutrition significantly affects inflammation and aging. * Reliable biomarkers are needed for effective aging interventions. * NASA's research on astronauts reveals accelerated aging in space. * The convergence of technologies is revolutionizing health research. * Future research will focus on protecting astronauts and advancing aging studies.

Titles: System Chronic Inflammation: The Hidden Driver of Aging Nutrition and Inflammation: Key Factors in Health span About the 1000 immunomes Project: The Stanford 1000 Immunomes Project (KIP) is a collaborative ongoing study at Stanford University that aims to define the biological basis of aging and disease using state-of-the-art 'omics' platforms and advanced artificial intelligence (AI) methods. The main focus of 1KIP is to establish biomarkers for healthy versus sub-functional immune systems. They do this by identifying the interactions between genetic and environmental factors, which contribute to the observed heterogeneity of biological responses in human beings. To this end, 1000 individuals of different age groups (9-96 years old) were recruited between 2007-2017. Their blood samples were screened using multiple state-of-the-art technologies at a single facility, the Human Immune Monitoring Center (HIMC) to measure circulating proteins, cell types, cellular functions, whole-genome blood gene expression and subjects' haplotypes using deep sequencing technologies. The 1KIP dataset has enabled us for the first time to identify reliable biomarkers of aging and disease in a longitudinal population-based study of immunology and aging. 1KIP provides reference values for thousands of immune variables and identifies clusters of individuals sharing similar health versus disease immune profiles. BIO

Dr. David Furman is an academic entrepreneur deeply committed to addressing intricate challenges within human biology, systems medicine, translational immunology, preventative healthcare, aging, and precision longevity. Holding positions as the Director of the Stanford 1000 Immunomes Project at the Stanford School of Medicine and as an Associate Professor and Director of the Bioinformatics and Data Science Core at the Buck Institute for Research on Aging, Dr. Furman leads research endeavors that leverage multi-scale biology ('omics') platforms and advanced AI/ML methodologies. He identifies biomarkers and integrative biological clocks essential for monitoring individual health statuses. Groundbreaking technologies originating from the Furman lab now facilitate the application of descriptive and mechanistic biomarkers to detect and combat accelerated aging and disease progression. With over 15 years of specialization in inflammation's role in aging mechanisms, Dr. Furman's expertise includes various domains, including neuroscience, cardiovascular health, metabolic diseases, and immune system function. Notably, in 2022, NASA's Human Research Program sought Dr. Furman's collaboration, leading to partnerships with SpaceX and Cornell University. Dr. Furman's entrepreneurial initiatives include the founding of the Inflammaging Institute, aimed at democratizing biological aging diagnosis, and the establishment of Stanford spin-off Edifice Health Inc., and Buck Institute spin-off Cosmica Biosciences Inc., both focused on innovative approaches to combat aging-related ailments and precision longevity interventions. Dr. Furman has published over 50 scientific articles in top-tier journals such as Cell, Nature Medicine, PNAS, The Lancet, and others, and is the inventor of over 25 patents.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this insightful episode, we are joined by Dr. Mizyl Damayo, a holistic psychiatrist and founder of Paradise Behavioral Health. Dr. Damayo specializes in precision psychiatry, an approach that goes beyond traditional psychiatric treatments to address the underlying causes of mental health disorders. She combines modern science with integrative, holistic therapies to deliver customized care tailored to each patient's unique needs. Key Topics Covered: * Precision Psychiatry: - What it is and why it's revolutionizing mental health treatment. Nutrient Deficiencies and Toxicities: - How imbalances in essential vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients can contribute to mental health issues, and how correcting these imbalances leads to improved brain function. Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT): The critical role hormones play in mood regulation, anxiety, and depression, and why balancing hormones is essential for mental wellness. Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): - A deep dive into how HBOT supports brain function, helps repair neural damage, and promotes overall mental clarity and emotional balance. Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS): - How TMS is offering new hope for treatment-resistant depression by using magnetic pulses to stimulate brain regions involved in mood regulation. *The Limitations of Traditional Drug Therapy: - Why relying solely on medications to treat psychiatric conditions often fails to address the root causes of mental health issues, leading to incomplete or temporary relief. Ailments Dr. Damayo Treats: Dr. Damayo works with a wide range of psychiatric and neurological conditions, including: * Depression (including treatment-resistant depression) * Anxiety disorders * Bipolar disorder * Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) * Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) * Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) * Chronic fatigue and brain fog * Cognitive decline and memory issues

Her precision psychiatry approach focuses on identifying the root causes of these disorders rather than just managing symptoms with medications. By uncovering nutrient deficiencies, toxicities (such as heavy metals), hormonal imbalances, and even neural damage, Dr. Damayo's approach offers a whole-person treatment plan that leads to more sustained mental and physical health. Why the Traditional Drug Approach Isn't Enough: For decades, the standard treatment for mental health disorders has been primarily pharmaceutical drugs. While these medications can provide symptom relief, they often fail to address the underlying causes of mental health conditions. Patients may experience side effects, dependence, or only partial relief. Dr. Damayo believes that while drugs can be part of the treatment, they should not be the only approach. By focusing on the root causes—such as nutrient imbalances, toxic buildup, and hormonal fluctuations—Dr. Damayo is able to offer a more comprehensive and effective solution. Her practice also emphasizes natural healing methods, such as hyperbaric oxygen therapy and ranscranial magnetic stimulation, which can significantly enhance brain health and recovery. Advanced Therapies Explained: Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): - By delivering oxygen under high pressure, HBOT increases oxygen levels in the brain, which helps heal damaged tissues, reduce inflammation, and promote neurogenesis (the growth of new brain cells). This therapy has been particularly beneficial for patients with cognitive issues, brain fog, and trauma-related conditions. * Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS): - TMS is a non-invasive, FDA-approved treatment that stimulates specific areas of the brain using magnetic pulses. It has shown remarkable success in treating depression, especially in cases where antidepressants have failed. TMS is also being explored for conditions like anxiety, PTSD, and OCD. Dr. Damayo's Unique Approach: Dr. Damayo's precision psychiatry integrates lab testing to identify deficiencies, environmental toxins, and other imbalances that could be contributing to mental health issues. Her personalized treatment plans may include nutrient supplementation, detoxification protocols, hormone replacement, and advanced therapies like HBOT and TMS. This holistic model looks at both the mental and physical aspects of health, understanding that the two are deeply interconnected. Mental health is complex, and there's no one-size-fits-all solution. Dr. Mizyl Damayo's innovative approach offers hope to those who have struggled with traditional treatments by focusing on the root causes of psychiatric conditions. Her holistic and personalized* methods are helping patients achieve not just symptom relief, but true healing and long-term wellness. For more information about Dr. Damayo's practice and her unique precision psychiatry approach, visit her website at Paradise Behavioral Health. BIO * Dr. Damayo is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and by the Board of Preventive Medicine in Addiction Medicine. * She uses the integrative medicine for mental healtyh and the precision psychiatry philosophy in treating her psychiatruc patients, focusing primarily on treating the root cause with an emphasis on supplements, lifestyle and therapy rather than just reaching for a pill to mask the psychiatric symptoms. * She has been a speaker for the local community and national conferences sharing her knowledge for mental health and treatment options from a functional psychiatric approach. * She is certified by the Millenium Health Network to treat Traumatic Brain Injury focusing on decreasing inflammation and supporting hormone balance for a whole person approach in their recovery. * She is the owner and medical director of Paradise Behavioral Health, a mental health clinic in Southwest Florida. * She is also the medical director of Community Behavioral health that has clinics in Cape Coral and Miami FL. * She is the creator of the Brain Well Program that uses the principles of precision psychiatry which looks into the root causes of mental illness using biomarkers that includes genetics and blood work. * Dr Damayo is also an attending at Park Royal Hospital, a 100 bed plus inpatient psychiatric hospital in Fort Myers FL * She has recently been added as adjunctive professor at Debusk College of Osteopathic Medicine, teaching 3rd year medical students in their psychiatry rotation.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we have the privilege of speaking with Dr. Michael Lewis, renowned expert in brain health and traumatic brain injury (TBI), and author of the groundbreaking book, When Brains Collide. Dr. Lewis is the founder of the Brain Health Education and Research Institute and BrainCARE. With a military background and extensive experience in traumatic brain injuries, Dr. Lewis has dedicated his career to exploring how omega-3 fish oils can play a vital role in preventing and recovering from concussions, TBI, stroke, and neurodegenerative diseases. Key Discussion Points 1. The Role of Omega-3 Fish Oils in Brain Health Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) and Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA), the primary omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil, are crucial for maintaining brain structure and function. Omega-3s are anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective, making them vital in protecting the brain from injury and supporting recovery. 2. High-Dose Omega-3 Fish Oil for Concussions and Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) Dr. Lewis emphasizes how high-dose fish oil can help mitigate damage following a concussion or TBI. Dosing Protocols: In acute brain injury cases, Dr. Lewis recommends significantly higher doses of fish oil (e.g., up to 3-9 grams of combined DHA and EPA per day) to reduce inflammation, promote healing, and restore brain cell membrane integrity. Case studies demonstrate remarkable improvements in TBI patients, including quicker recovery times, reduced brain fog, and restored cognitive function. 3. Fish Oils for Neurodegeneration and Stroke Prevention Regular intake of omega-3s is shown to be effective in reducing the risk of neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Omega-3s help prevent stroke by reducing blood clot formation, improving vascular health, and lowering inflammation in brain tissues. Dr. Lewis advocates for omega-3s as part of a preventive strategy, particularly for aging individuals at higher risk of neurodegenerative conditions. 4. Using Omega-3s as Preventive Medicine Consistent omega-3 supplementation is not just for recovery—it's crucial for maintaining optimal brain health. Athletes, military personnel, and individuals at risk for head trauma should use omega-3s proactively to strengthen their brain's resilience to injury. Preventative Dosing: Dr. Lewis suggests a daily intake of at least 2-3 grams of DHA and EPA combined for ongoing brain health and injury prevention. 5. How to Choose a High-Quality Fish Oil Dr. Lewis explains the criteria for identifying a high-quality fish oil supplement: Purity: Free from contaminants like heavy metals and toxins. Potency: Look for a high concentration of DHA and EPA. Stability: Avoid fish oils that oxidize easily, as rancid oils can be harmful. Sourcing: Prefer fish oils sourced from wild-caught, sustainably harvested fish. Importance of third-party testing to ensure the product is safe and effective. 6. Personal Stories and Case Studies Dr. Lewis shares inspiring stories of patients and athletes who have successfully used omega-3 therapy to recover from brain injuries. Examples include a football player who recovered from multiple concussions and a stroke survivor who regained cognitive function with high-dose omega-3 supplementation. 7. How to Use Omega-3s After Brain Injury Immediate supplementation following a brain injury can make a significant difference in recovery outcomes. The sooner omega-3s are introduced post-injury, the better. Dr. Lewis provides insight into the timing and administration of omega-3 supplements during the acute phase of brain injury treatment. Recommended Resources: Dr. Michael Lewis's Website: Brain Health Education and Research Institute: http://www.brainhealtheducation.org/ BrainCARE: BrainCARE Center When Brains Collide Book Join us for this enlightening discussion on the powerful benefits of omega-3 fish oils for brain protection, recovery, and overall health. Dr. Michael Lewis's pioneering work is transforming how we approach brain injuries and neurodegeneration, highlighting the critical role that nutrition and supplementation play in maintaining cognitive vitality. Tune in to learn how you can harness the power of omega-3s for your brain health and optimize your recovery from injury or disease. BIO

Michael Lewis, MD, MPH, MBA, FACPM, FACN, is a proven leader and expert in the treatment and management of concussions and brain injuries. He also applies his holistic approach to Men's Health and outpatient orthopedics. Upon retiring as a Colonel in the U.S. Army, he founded the nonprofit Brain Health Education and Research Institute and entered private practice focusing on helping patients with chronic concussion issues. His pioneering work in the military and since has helped thousands of people around the world and he is regularly featured in the media, radio, podcasts, webinars, scientific conferences, and television. A lifelong athlete, Dr. Lewis serves on the Pop Warner Youth Football Medical Advisory Board and Board of Directors of National Collegiate Rugby where is also the head of the Medical and Safety Committee. Dr. Lewis is the author of When Brains Collide: What Every Athlete and Parent Should Know About the Prevention and Treatment of Concussions and Head Injuries. He is a graduate of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and Tulane University School of Medicine. He is board- certified and a Fellow of the American College of Preventive Medicine and American College of Nutrition. He completed post-graduate training at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Johns Hopkins University, and Walter Reed Army Institute of Research.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we dive deep into the science of longevity with Courtney Van Bussum, COO of Longevity Launch Labs. Courtney shares her insights on the NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide) pathway, a critical component in the aging process and how we can leverage it for longevity optimization. We explore the fascinating molecule 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide), its unique role in the body, and how it helps lower levels of the NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) enzyme, which is associated with various age-related diseases and metabolic disorders.

Key Topics Discussed:

  1. Introduction to the NAD Pathway:

    • Overview of the NAD pathway and its significance in cellular metabolism and aging.
    • The role of NAD+ in DNA repair, energy production, and maintaining cellular health.
    • Understanding 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide):

    • What is 1-MNA, and what is it's role in the NAD story.

    • The unique properties of 1-MNA and its potential as a longevity molecule.
    • The NNMT Enzyme and Its Implications for Health:

    • Explanation of NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) and its impact on metabolic health and aging.

    • How elevated NNMT levels are linked to obesity, cancer, diabetes, and other age-related diseases.
    • How 1-MNA Lowers NNMT Levels:

    • The mechanism by which 1-MNA reduces NNMT activity, promoting healthier aging.

    • Potential benefits of 1-MNA in reducing inflammation, improving metabolism, and supporting overall health.
    • How the immune system and NAD pathways are both key to longevity and health optimisation and how we can leverage and optimise both as we age.
    • Longevity Optimization Strategies:

    • How targeting the NAD pathway and modulating NNMT activity can be part of a comprehensive longevity strategy.

    • Practical tips for integrating 1-MNA and other NAD-boosting supplements into your daily routine.
    • Courtney's Vision for the Future of Longevity Research:

    • Insights into the latest developments at Longevity Launch Labs.

    • The future of NAD research and its potential to revolutionize aging and healthcare.

If you want to supplement 1-MNA you can now get it in our Longevity and Anti-Aging store Bio

Courtney Van Bussum is a dynamic entrepreneur and business leader who currently serves as the COO of Longevity Launch Labs, a pioneering incubator focused on advancing the Cellular and Longevity Medicine sectors. With a Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Engineering from Arizona State University, Barrett Honors College, Courtney has overseen several startups in the healthcare and medical arenas ranging from fitness applications to wearable medical devices. Her early career began as a strategy consultant in Scottsdale, Arizona where she honed her skills by working with Fortune 500 companies and startups, streamlining processes and driving innovation.

In 2020, Courtney joined the Boulder Longevity Institute, where she played a crucial role in enhancing the institute's core technology and operational systems. Two years later, she co-founded Longevity Launch Labs, where she has been instrumental in building the operational frameworks that have propelled the incubator to become a key connector in the industry. Under her leadership, Longevity Launch Labs offers a range of services including product co-formulation and development, distribution, product rollout strategy, and mentorship, all aimed at supporting companies and healthcare practitioners in the rapidly evolving field of longevity medicine. Through Launch's Longevity Impact Fund, Courtney also helps early-stage startups access key capital to further development of their healthcare innovations. Having grown up around the world of medicine, Courtney understands that changing healthcare can only be achieved through creating innovative parallel systems that improve outcomes and experience. Her visionary leadership and deep expertise make her an invaluable voice in the conversation around healthcare innovation and longevity.

  • Subscribe to our podcast for more expert insights on longevity, health optimization, and cutting-edge research.
  • Visit Longevity Launch Labs' website for more information on 1-MNA and other groundbreaking research initiatives.
  • Connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on this episode using the hashtag #1-MNA

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode, we will have the part two of Dr. Mark Gordon's episode.

Dr. Gordon continues to shed light on how hormonal imbalances can exacerbate neuroinflammation, leading to prolonged recovery and chronic symptoms. We explore the importance of testing and optimizing hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, IGF-BP3, estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone to support brain health and recovery after traumatic and non traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Additionally, we delve into how environmental toxins and viruses can trigger or worsen neuroinflammation, impacting overall neurological health.

Key Discussion Points:

  1. Understanding the Role of Hormones in Brain Health - How hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, and IGF-BP3 are involved in brain repair and neuroprotection. - The connection between estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone in maintaining cognitive function and mood stability. - Why hormonal imbalances are common after brain injuries and how they contribute to prolonged neuroinflammation.

  2. Growth Hormone and Brain Injuries - The role of growth hormone in promoting neurogenesis and repairing neural tissues. - How low levels of growth hormone can impede recovery from TBI and other brain injuries. - Dr. Gordon's approach to assessing and optimizing growth hormone levels for brain health.

  3. IGF-1 and IGF-BP3: Key Players in Neuroprotection - How IGF-1 supports brain cell survival and reduces inflammation. - The significance of IGF-BP3 in regulating IGF-1 activity and its therapeutic potential in TBI. - Strategies for boosting IGF-1 levels naturally and through medical intervention.

  4. The Impact of Sex Hormones on Brain Function - Estrogen's neuroprotective effects and its role in reducing neuroinflammation. - Testosterone's influence on brain health, cognition, and emotional regulation. - The benefits of DHEA and pregnenolone in supporting adrenal function and overall hormonal balance.

  5. Environmental Toxins, Viruses, and Neuroinflammation - How exposure to environmental toxins can trigger or exacerbate neuroinflammation. - The role of chronic viral infections in contributing to ongoing brain inflammation and hormonal dysregulation. - Dr. Gordon's insights into detoxification strategies and immune support for reducing neuroinflammation.

  6. Testing and Optimizing Hormones for Brain Health - The importance of comprehensive hormonal testing in individuals with TBI or chronic neuroinflammation. - Dr. Gordon's protocol for optimizing hormone levels to support brain recovery and cognitive function. - How to work with healthcare providers to develop a personalized hormone optimization plan. You can find out more about Dr Mark Gordon and his work and read his research at https://tbihelpnow.org/

BIO

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Mark Gordon, a renowned expert in neuroendocrinology, to discuss the critical role hormones play in brain injuries and neuroinflammation. Dr. Gordon sheds light on how hormonal imbalances can exacerbate neuroinflammation, leading to prolonged recovery and chronic symptoms. We explore the importance of testing and optimizing hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, IGF-BP3, estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone to support brain health and recovery after traumatic and non traumatic brain injuries (TBI). Additionally, we delve into how environmental toxins and viruses can trigger or worsen neuroinflammation, impacting overall neurological health.

Key Discussion Points:

  1. Understanding the Role of Hormones in Brain Health - How hormones like growth hormone, IGF-1, and IGF-BP3 are involved in brain repair and neuroprotection. - The connection between estrogen, testosterone, DHEA, and pregnenolone in maintaining cognitive function and mood stability. - Why hormonal imbalances are common after brain injuries and how they contribute to prolonged neuroinflammation.

  2. Growth Hormone and Brain Injuries - The role of growth hormone in promoting neurogenesis and repairing neural tissues. - How low levels of growth hormone can impede recovery from TBI and other brain injuries. - Dr. Gordon's approach to assessing and optimizing growth hormone levels for brain health.

  3. IGF-1 and IGF-BP3: Key Players in Neuroprotection - How IGF-1 supports brain cell survival and reduces inflammation. - The significance of IGF-BP3 in regulating IGF-1 activity and its therapeutic potential in TBI. - Strategies for boosting IGF-1 levels naturally and through medical intervention.

  4. The Impact of Sex Hormones on Brain Function - Estrogen's neuroprotective effects and its role in reducing neuroinflammation. - Testosterone's influence on brain health, cognition, and emotional regulation. - The benefits of DHEA and pregnenolone in supporting adrenal function and overall hormonal balance.

  5. Environmental Toxins, Viruses, and Neuroinflammation - How exposure to environmental toxins can trigger or exacerbate neuroinflammation. - The role of chronic viral infections in contributing to ongoing brain inflammation and hormonal dysregulation. - Dr. Gordon's insights into detoxification strategies and immune support for reducing neuroinflammation.

  6. Testing and Optimizing Hormones for Brain Health - The importance of comprehensive hormonal testing in individuals with TBI or chronic neuroinflammation. - Dr. Gordon's protocol for optimizing hormone levels to support brain recovery and cognitive function. - How to work with healthcare providers to develop a personalized hormone optimization plan. You can find out more about Dr Mark Gordon and his work and read his research at https://tbihelpnow.org/

Dr Gordons' Youtube channel Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this enlightening episode, we are joined by Dr. Stephanie Venn Watson, co-founder of Fatty15.com and DiscoverC15.com, to explore the groundbreaking benefits of C15:0, an essential fatty acid that has been overlooked for decades. Dr. Venn Watson shares her pioneering research on C15:0 and its potential to revolutionize the way we approach health and disease.

Key Topics Discussed:

1.Introduction to C15:0

  • Understanding what C15:0 is and why it's considered an essential fatty acid.
  • The journey from discovery to developing a pure C15:0 supplement

  • Cellular Fragility Syndrome

  • What is cellular fragility syndrome, and how does it impact aging and overall health?

  • How C15:0 strengthens cell membranes, promoting resilience and longevity.

  • Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD)

  • The growing prevalence of NAFLD and its impact on liver health.

  • Insights into how C15:0 can help manage and potentially reverse the effects of NAFLD.

4.Metabolic Disorders and C15:0

  • The role of C15:0 in regulating metabolism.
  • How C15:0 can be used to support metabolic health and prevent disorders such as obesity and insulin resistance.

  • Cardiovascular Health

  • Exploring the cardiovascular benefits of C15:0, including its effects on cholesterol levels and heart function.

  • The potential of C15:0 as a natural way to support cardiovascular health and reduce the risk of heart disease.

6.C15:0 and Diabetes

  • The connection between C15:0 and glucose metabolism.
  • How C15:0 can play a role in managing diabetes and reducing the risk of related complications.

  • Aging and Longevity

  • The role of C15:0 in promoting healthy aging.

  • How C15:0 supports longevity by reducing inflammation, oxidative stress, and cellular damage.

  • Practical Uses and Dosage

  • Recommended dosages of C15:0 for different health conditions.

  • How to incorporate C15:0 into your daily routine for optimal benefits.

BIO

Dr. Stephanie Venn Watson is a renowned scientist and co-founder of Fatty15.com and DiscoverC15.com. With years of research and dedication, she has brought to light the critical role of C15:0 in human health, offering new hope for managing and preventing a wide range of diseases. Her work has been published in numerous scientific journals, and she continues to be a leading voice in the field of metabolic and cardiovascular health.

Resources Mentioned:

Visit Fatty15.com and DiscoverC15.com to learn more about C15:0 and its health benefits. Scientific articles and studies referenced in this episode. Join the Conversation: Have questions or want to share your thoughts on this episode? Connect with us on social media or leave a comment on our website.

Subscribe & Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review! Your feedback helps us continue to bring you the latest insights in health and wellness.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this comprehensive video, we delve into various advanced therapies and supplements that can significantly enhance brain health and support recovery from brain injuries. Join us as we explore the science behind exogenous ketones, Dihexa, Cerebrolysin, Selank, Semax, plasmalogens, hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT), and photobiomodulation. Learn how these innovative treatments work and their potential benefits for cognitive function and brain health.

Topics Covered:

  • Exogenous Ketones: Alternative energy source for the brain, anti-inflammatory effects, neuroprotection, and promotion of brain plasticity.
  • Dihexa: Neurogenic and neurotrophic properties, enhancement of cognitive function, and promotion of synaptogenesis and neurogenesis.
  • Cerebrolysin: Neurotrophic factors, neuroprotection, neuroplasticity, and cognitive function improvement.
  • Selank and Semax: Anxiolytic and cognitive-enhancing effects, neuroprotection, and influence on neurotransmitter systems.
  • Plasmalogens: Phospholipids, membrane integrity, oxidative stress reduction, and support for neurogenesis.
  • Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): Enhanced oxygen delivery, reduced inflammation, neuroprotection, and promotion of neurogenesis and angiogenesis.
  • Photobiomodulation: Red and near-infrared light therapy, mitochondrial function enhancement, and neuroprotection.

Research References:

Cerebrolysin:

  • Study on Cerebrolysin and Neuroprotection in Stroke Journal of Neurology - Research on Cerebrolysin's impact on cognitive function and neuroplasticity.

Dihexa:

  • Dihexa's Effects on Cognitive Enhancement and Neurogenesis Neuroscience Letters - Study on Dihexa and its binding to HGF receptors, promoting synaptogenesis.

Selank and Semax:

  • Selank: Anxiolytic and Cognitive-Enhancing Properties

  • Semax: Neuroprotective and Cognitive-Enhancing Effects Journal of Molecular Neuroscience - Research on Selank and Semax's mechanisms and benefits.

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT):

  • HBOT for Stroke Recovery Journal of Neurotrauma - Studies on the effectiveness of HBOT in brain injury recovery and neuroprotection.

Key Points:

  • Exogenous ketones provide an alternative energy source and possess anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties.
  • Dihexa enhances cognitive function by promoting neurogenesis and synaptogenesis.
  • Cerebrolysin supports neuronal survival, neuroplasticity, and cognitive function.
  • Selank and Semax offer anxiolytic and cognitive-enhancing benefits, influencing neurotransmitter systems and providing neuroprotection.
  • Plasmalogens support membrane integrity, reduce oxidative stress, and promote neurogenesis.
  • HBOT enhances oxygen delivery, reduces inflammation, promotes neuroprotection, and supports neurogenesis and angiogenesis.
  • Photobiomodulation uses red and near-infrared light to enhance mitochondrial function and provide neuroprotection.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we delve into a revolutionary longevity molecule that you might not have heard of before: 1-MNA. If you're interested in staying younger longer and if you want to maintain your energy and vitality then this is an episode for you.

Perhaps you have read the groundbreaking book by Dr David Sinclair "Lifespan" where he talks about NAD and how crucial it is for the body and how it can help upregulate sirtuin genes (longevity genes) and help you maintain your cellular health and energy. We are now 4 years on we have more data, studies and information to share in this arena.

Perhaps you have been trying to improve your NAD metabolism, taking NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) or NR (nicotinamide riboside), and upregulating sirtuin genes, if you have then you need to hear this.

We'll explore the intricacies of NAD pathways, the role of key enzymes, and why simply supplementing with NAD precursors may not be the best holistic approach and how we can improve on that approach to anti-aging

Key Points Discussed:

  1. Introduction to NAD Metabolism:

    • Overview of previous episodes on NAD metabolism with experts like Professor Joseph Baur, Dr. Elizabeth Yurth from the Boulder Longevity Institute, and Dr. Elena Seranova.
    • Importance of understanding the complexities of NAD pathways beyond the basics.
    • Understanding 1-MNA:

    • Explanation of 1-MNA and its role in controlling NAD levels by blocking the enzyme NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase).

    • The dangers of upregulating NNMT, which degrades NAD and can lead to various health issues.
    • Key Enzymes in NAD Metabolism:

    • Discussion on the salvage pathway and two critical enzymes that degrade NAD.

    • Importance of regulating NNMT to prevent its deleterious effects, particularly in senescent cells, cancer cells, and fat cells.
    • Benefits of 1-MNA

    • How 1-MNA can help maintain a balanced NAD metabolism by inhibiting NNMT.

    • Potential benefits for conditions like schizophrenia, neurodegeneration, liver diseases, and cancer.
    • Research and Studies:

    • Overview of studies showing the positive effects of 1-MNA on post-COVID conditions, inflammation, and mitochondrial function.

    • Insights from animal studies on 1-MNA's protective effects against metabolic disorders.
    • Practical Applications:

    • Recommendations for integrating 1-MNA into supplement regimens, especially for those taking NMN or NR.

    • Potential benefits for various conditions, including obesity, metabolic syndrome, cardiac disease, liver disease, cancer risk, long COVID, and fatigue.
    • Balancing NAD Levels:

    • Importance of maintaining NAD levels for energy production, DNA repair, neurotransmitter health, and longevity.

    • The role of NAD as a redox molecule and the balance between NAD+ and NADH.
    • Conclusion:

    • Encouragement to explore further research on NNMT and its impact on health.

    • Final thoughts on the potential of 1-MNAas a crucial supplement for maintaining NAD balance and promoting longevity.

References and Links:

  • Boulder Longevity Institute: https://boulderlongevity.com/
  • SSRP Institute: https://ssrpinstitute.org/
  • Studies on NNMT and related conditions: Research

  • If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a like, share, and subscribe to the YouTube channel.

  • Tune in weekly for more interviews with top doctors and scientists on health optimization and longevity.

Get Your 1-MNA now If you want to start supplementing with 1-MNA to support your own healthy aging journey, to upregulate your NAD metabolism, support sirtuin genes and prevent the overexpression of the deleterious NNMT Enzyme you can buy it here: 1-MNA and use code NAD to get $25 off your first order

  • Stay up-to-date with the latest research and evolve with the science to optimize your health and longevity. See you in the next episode!

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Join us in this enlightening episode as we sit down with Dr. Bill Clearfield from Clearfield Medical Group to explore the intricacies of integrative medicine. Dr. Clearfield shares his expert insights on a range of topics, including hormone health, thyroid disorders, brain injuries, the potential of methylene blue, low-dose naltrexone, and the impacts of COVID-19 and long COVID. Whether you're seeking to understand hormone replacement therapy or looking for effective treatments for long COVID, this episode is packed with valuable information.

Topics Covered: Hormones

  • The role of hormones in maintaining overall health and well-being
  • Benefits and risks of hormone replacement therapy for both men and women
  • Differences and advantages of bioidentical hormones versus synthetic hormones
  • Common hormonal imbalances and how they are addressed in practice

Thyroid Health

  • Common thyroid disorders and their impact on overall health
  • Key thyroid function tests for accurate diagnosis
  • Influence of thyroid health on weight management and metabolism
  • Natural or integrative approaches to managing thyroid conditions

Brain Injuries

  • Latest advancements in the treatment of traumatic brain injuries (TBI)
  • Importance of neuroplasticity in the recovery from brain injuries and methods to enhance it
  • Integrative therapies recommended for brain injury recovery

Methylene Blue

  • Explanation of methylene blue and its primary medical uses
  • Current evidence on methylene blue's effectiveness in treating viral infections
  • Potential use of methylene blue to support brain health and cognitive function

Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)

  • Overview of low dose naltrexone and conditions it can help manage
  • Mechanism of action of LDN and its therapeutic effects
  • Success stories or case studies where LDN has made a significant impact

General Topics

  • Differences and benefits of integrative medicine compared to conventional medicine
  • Approach to patient care to ensure personalized and effective treatment
  • Future trends in medicine and healthcare that excite Dr. Clearfield

Links and Resources: * Clearfield Medical Group * Dr. Bill Clearfield's LinkedIn * Follow Dr. Clearfield on Facebook * Learn More About Integrative Medicine

BIO

With 33 years of medical experience, Reno, Nevada physician, William Clearfield, D.O. of the Clearfield Medical Group provides patients with successful treatment plans that benefit their health conditions and boost their overall quality of life.

Emphasizing diet, exercise and a healthy lifestyle, Dr. Clearfield was the “go to” guy when other physicians, even specialists at NYU and the University of Pennsylvania were baffled, in his adopted hometown of Wilkes-Barre, Pa.

Dr. Clearfield graduated from the College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery, now Des Moines University, in 1978. He interned at Metropolitan Hospital in downtown Philadelphia and followed that up with a residency in Obstetrics and Gynecology and Family Medicine.

In 1984 he tested and successfully implemented one of the first individualized computer generated diet programs (on an Apple IIc no less) and instituted the Medifast Protein Sparing Modified Weight Loss program at Nesbitt Memorial Hospital in Kingston, Pa.

In 1990, a curious combination of family events, a cousin who, after ten years of fertility issues, became pregnant after three sessions, and a chance encounter with a ninety-year-old practitioner from the Peoples Republic of China, on a trip back home, led him to UCLA’s Medical Acupuncture Physicians training.

Dr. C. took to acupuncture quickly, becoming the second medical doctor in the Wilkes, Barre-Scranton area to offer acupuncture in his practice. He became. Elected to the board of directors as the education director of the American Academy of Medical Acupuncture in 1992, Dr. C began a student with experienced acupuncturists which continue to this day.

After election as the Secretary of the American Academy of Medical Acupuncture in 1994, Dr. C obtained his most prized academic degree. The secretary of the AAMA signed the diplomas earned in that session. In short, Dr. Clearfield signed his diploma!

His 1992 treatise “Celestial Stems-5 Element Diet and Exercise Program,” based on Traditional Chinese Medicine dietary laws, was well received in the complementary medicine community.

In 1994 Dr. Clearfield established the first combined functional and alternative medicine pain clinic at John Heinz Rehabilitation Hospital in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. He partnered with staff physiatrists, physical therapist, speech pathologist and psychologists to offer a comprehensive pain management program.

A 1995 article “Form Follows Function; The Treatment of Musculoskeletal Head and Neck Disease,” is the model used taught today for all shoulder and neck injuries.

In 1997 he chaired the 9th Annual Symposium of the American Academy of Medical Acupuncture in Washington, D.C.

Dr. C was the fourth licensed osteopathic acupuncture physician in the state of Pennsylvania.

Moving his practice to Reno in 2013, Dr. William Clearfield and the Clearfield Medical Group has quickly become the source in which patients turn to when looking for alternative and functional medicine.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. John Lewis, a leading expert in nutritional research and the therapeutic potential of Aloe polysaccharides. Dr. Lewis shares insights from his groundbreaking studies on Alzheimer's disease, multiple sclerosis (MS), and the broader impacts of Aloe polysaccharides on immune function and brain health.

Key Topics Discussed

  1. Understanding Aloe Polysaccharides

    • What are Aloe polysaccharides?
    • How are they extracted and formulated for nutritional supplements?
    • Research on Alzheimer's Disease and Multiple Sclerosis

    • Overview of Dr. Lewis's studies on Alzheimer's disease and MS.

    • Impact of Aloe polysaccharides on cognitive function and disease progression.
    • Immune System Modulation

    • Effects of Aloe polysaccharides on CD4 to CD8 ratios.

    • Regulation of key cytokines: TNF-alpha, VEGF, and BDNF.
    • Balancing TH1 and TH2 responses.
    • Brain Care Formulation

    • Detailed discussion on the Brain Care formulation developed by Dr. Lewis.

    • Clinical results and patient outcomes.
    • Challenges in Nutritional Research

    • Funding difficulties for nutritional and supplement research.

    • Issues with the pharmacological model of placebo-controlled randomized double-blind trials.
    • Why this model is challenging for evaluating supplements and nutritional interventions.
    • Future Directions and Innovations

    • Potential future applications of Aloe polysaccharides in other health conditions.

    • Innovations in nutritional research methodologies.

Key Takeaways

  • Aloe Polysaccharides: Naturally occurring compounds with significant therapeutic potential, particularly in modulating immune function and supporting brain health.
  • Clinical Research: Dr. Lewis's studies highlight the positive effects of Aloe polysaccharides on Alzheimer's disease, MS, and overall immune health.
  • Nutritional Research Challenges: The current pharmacological model of clinical trials poses challenges for the study of supplements, necessitating new research approaches.

Research References

  • Studies on Alzheimer's disease and Aloe polysaccharides: Positive impacts on cognitive function and disease markers.
  • Research on MS: Aloe polysaccharides and their role in managing symptoms and progression.
  • Immune modulation: Detailed findings on CD4/CD8 ratios, cytokines (TNF-alpha, VEGF, BDNF), and TH1/TH2 balance.

Dr. John Lewis provides compelling evidence on the health benefits of Aloe polysaccharides and underscores the need for innovative research methodologies in nutritional science. This episode offers valuable insights for anyone interested in the intersection of nutrition, immune function, and brain health.Connect with Dr. John Lewis

  • Website: Dr. John Lewis Nutrition

If you want to get Daily Brain Care visit our online curated range of cutting edge longevity and anti-aging supplements at

BIO

John E. Lewis, Ph.D. is the Founder and President of Dr Lewis Nutrition™.

Dr. John E. Lewis has spent most of his career developing a unique approach as someone who "walks the walk" through all of his combined professional and personal experiences to attaining optimal health through nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise. Throughout his research career, he has evaluated many different nutritional approaches to enhancing well-being, particularly for brain health, immune function, and counteracting aging. He can separate fact from fiction regarding how to utilize nutrition and dietary supplements to help you achieve and maintain optimal health. If you need a trusted source of information, products, and services, then look no further than Dr. Lewis and how he can help you achieve your health-related goals.

Professional Career

Dr. Lewis is past full-time Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine and the Founder and President of Dr Lewis Nutrition™. He is a Diplomate, Faculty Member, and Advisor of the Medical Wellness Association. He has been the principal investigator of over 30 different studies on human health in his research career. During that time, he either directly raised or indirectly supported raising over $23 million in grants, gifts, and contracts for research studies and clinical trials and educational programs for medical students. In addition to his research, Dr. Lewis has been an invited national and international lecturer and guest speaker at conferences and as a guest on television shows. He is a well-known author with over 180 peer-reviewed publications in some of the world's leading scientific journals. He has also mentored many different students, from undergraduates to post-doctoral trainees, in not only how to conduct clinical research but to apply the principles of health promotion into daily practice.

Research Interests

Much of Dr. Lewis's research has focused on evaluating the effects of nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise on various aspects of human health. He and his colleagues have been continually searching for ways to help people achieve and maintain health through natural treatments that align with our physiology. A primary stimulus for the origin of Dr Lewis Nutrition™ occurred after Dr. Lewis ran his landmark study on how an aloe polysaccharide multi-nutrient complex improved cognitive and immune functioning after 12 months in persons with moderate to severe Alzheimer's disease, leading to the creation of the dietary supplement, Daily Brain Care. Daily Brain Care showed clinically and statistically significant improvements in cognition according to the ADAS-cog cognition score and statistically significant improvements in inflammation (according to TNFα and VEGF), immune function (according to the CD4/CD8 ratio), and adult stem cells (according to CD14+ cells). His seminal publication from the study in the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease not only spurred him to leave academics and pursue a science-based business career, but also enabled him to be selected for a widely-acclaimed TEDxMiami talk.

Founding Dr Lewis Nutrition™

While Dr. Lewis still maintains an academic affiliation, he chose to leave a full-time research career to pursue his true passion of helping people achieve health through nutrition, dietary supplements, and exercise. His research in brain health and immune function was key in the creation of Daily Brain Care, but afterward he chose to shift into business where the opportunity to reach a larger audience is greater. Dr Lewis Nutrition™ is the vehicle through which Dr. Lewis leverages his many years of personal and professional work to spread a message of health that is so desperately needed, particularly for those who are afflicted with an all-too-common chronic disease, e.g., neurodegeneration, immune dysfunction, or cardiac and metabolic disorder. Dr. Lewis will continue to be a thought leader to help people utilize the power of nutrition and dietary supplements and learn how to take control of and optimize their health.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this enlightening episode, we dive into the world of photobiomodulation (PBM) and its transformative effects on brain health with Liam Pingree, Co-Founder of Neuronic. We explore how light therapy is revolutionizing the treatment and management of neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury (TBI), Parkinson's, concussion, stroke, Autism, ADHD and overall brain optimisation.

Learn about the cutting-edge research and innovative technologies that are making significant strides in enhancing brain function and quality of life.

Key Topics Covered:

  1. Introduction to Photobiomodulation (PBM):

  2. What is photobiomodulation?

  3. How does PBM work in the brain?

  4. Applications of PBM in Neurological Conditions:

  5. Alzheimer's Disease

  6. Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
  7. Parkinson's Disease
  8. Concussion
  9. Stroke
  10. Brain Optimization and Cognitive Enhancement

  11. Scientific Research and Evidence:

  12. Overview of current research studies on PBM

  13. Clinical trials and patient outcomes

  14. Neuronic's Innovations:

  15. Neuronic's PBM devices and technologies

  16. How Neuronic is leading the way in brain health optimization

  17. Liam Pingree's Journey:

  18. From Wall Street to neurotechnology

  19. The inspiration behind co-founding Neuronic

  20. Future Directions and Potential:

  21. Upcoming advancements in PBM therapy

  22. The future of brain health and neurotechnology

Resources and Links:

  • Neuronic Website: Neuronic Online (Use code - Tamati100 for $100 off)
  • Liam Pingree on LinkedIn: Liam Pingree LinkedIn
  • Neuronic on LinkedIn: Neuronic Devices LinkedIn

Subscribe: Don't miss out on future episodes! Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and don't forget to subscribe on our youtube channel here: Lisa Tamati

Leave a Review: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. It helps us reach more people passionate about brain health.

Share: Share this episode with friends, family, and anyone interested in cutting-edge brain health technologies.

Thank you for tuning in to this episode with Liam Pingree. We hope you found it insightful and inspiring. Stay tuned for more episodes on groundbreaking health technologies and innovation.

BIO

Liam Pingree is an entrepreneur and Co-Founder of Neuronic, a pioneering company focused on optimizing brain capacity throughout all stages of life. Liam is a former Forbes Business Council member and has a background in international business and finance previously acquired when working on Wall Street in HSBC NY. As the co-founder of Neuronic, Liam oversees the marketing and sales focusing on getting the product out in the world.

Website (link to auto apply your $100 off :)): https://neuronic.online/discount/Tamati100

My LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liampingree/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/neuronic-devices

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode the incredible Dr Thomas Levy, Board Certified Cardiologist and Attorney, author of 13 books including: * Curing the Incurable - the Vitamin C story and it's therapeutic effects * The Hidden Epidemic - the story around dental infections, root canals and their affect on cardiovascular disease and breast cancer and beyond. * Death by Calcium - the truth about calcium and why supplementing with calcium is a bad idea. * Rapid Virus Recovery - all about dealing with viruses successfully * Magnesium: Reversing Disease

Dr Thomas has been on this show twice so make sure you also listen in to those episodes Curing the Incurable all about IV and oral Vitamin C (this one has had over 150,000 views/listens. and Rapid Virus Recovery In this episode we dive into Dr Thomas's latest learnings and his top 8 (affordable) supplements and why he thinks most people would benefit from these and how they work in the body. We dive into his research on Methylene Blue and its ability to help those with mitochondrial dysfunction and energy problems. We also get into why 100% of root canals are infected and the terrible effect that can have on your risks for developing heart disease and also breast cancer. We dive again into the benefits and many faceted roles that vitamin C plays in the body as not only a powerful antioxidant but how it has the ability to get everywhere in the body and why that makes it much more powerful than many other antioxidants and we discuss it's roles in everything from cancer to covid to sepsis to cardiovascular disease and osteoporosis. We also discuss his indepth research into why calcium is so detrimental when it is higher in the body than it should be and why just a small increase of calcium in the soft tissues outside of bone and teeth has such deleterious effects and why magnesium is so beneficial and how it counteracts calciums deleterious effects in the body. We also look into iron and how it promotes cancer and why it can be elevated in people suffering with viruses and pathogens that are chronic. We also discuss copper toxicity and why so many have too much free copper which can be as toxic as mercury. Antimony is another topic we get into and why it's so high in the population. Lastly we dive into osteoporosis why it's actually focal scurvy and a lack of vitamin C. This episode is a masterclass in health optimisation that you will want to repeat over and over again. To subscribe to Dr Levy's newsletter and to read his articles, get copies of his books etc go to https://www.tomlevymd.com/ You can also read many of his in depth articles on the Orthomolecular New Service at https://www.tomlevymd.com/ BIO * Johns Hopkins University, 1968-72—B.A., Biology * Tulane University School of Medicine, 1972-76—M.D. * University of Denver College of Law, 1995-98—J.D. * Post-Graduate Training: * Internship and Internal Medicine Residency, 1976-79, Tulane University Affiliated Hospitals * Fellowship in Cardiology, 1979-81, Tulane University Affiliated Hospitals

LICENSURE AND CERTIFICATION: * Federal Licensing Examination (FLEX), 1976 * American Board of Internal Medicine, Internal Medicine Board Certification, 1979 * Cardiovascular Diseases Subspecialty Board Certification, 1981 * Admitted to Colorado Bar, 1998 * Admitted to District of Columbia Bar, 1999

PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS: * Advanced Amateur Radio Operator, 1974—present [WB5CTC] * American College of Physicians (ACP), Member, 1980—2002 * Louisiana State Medical Society, 1976-91 * American College of Cardiology (ACC), Fellow, 1983—present * American Society of Clinical Hypnosis (ASCH), Member, 1990-2000 * El Paso County Medical Society (Colorado), 1991-1995 * American Inn of Court, Judge William E. Doyle Inn, Pupil, 1997-8; Associate Barrister, 1999 to present * Colorado Bar Association, 1998-2002 * El Paso County Bar Association, 1999 * American College of Forensic Examiners (ABFM), Member, 1999 * American College of Forensic Examiners (ABFM), Diplomate, 1999 * Induction into the Orthomolecular Medicine Hall of Fame, April 2016

PROFESSIONAL POSITIONS AND HOSPITAL AFFILIATIONS: * Supervisor, Major Medical Emergency, Charity Hospital of New Orleans, 1980-83 * Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane Medical School, 1981-83 * Clinical Investigator, DDD Pacemaker, entitled "Clinical Study for Telectronics Model 2251, Dual Chamber Pulse Generator" * Member, Formulary Review—Cardiovascular Section, Charity Hospital of New Orleans, 1981-83 * Instructor in Radiology, Tulane Medical School, 1983-4 * Clinical Assistant Professor of Medicine, Tulane Medical School, 1983-1986 * Staff, Iberia General Hospital, New Iberia, Louisiana, 1984-91 * Staff, Memorial Hospital, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1991-present * Staff, Denver General Hospital, Denver, Colorado, 1995-6 * Medical Technical Advisor, International Tesla Society, Colorado Springs, Colorado, 1994-8

PUBLICATIONS * Graybar, G., Goethe, J., Levy, T., Phillips, J., Youngberg, J., and Smith, D., "Transient Large Upright T-Wave During Multiple Monitored Electroconvulsive Therapy," Anesthesiology, 59(5):467-469 (1983). * Levy, T., Trauma Rounds "Problem: Cardiac Contusion," Annals of Emergency Medicine, July 15, 1983. * Levy, T. and Huggins, H., "Routine Dental Extractions Routinely Produce Cavitations," Journal of Advancement in Medicine, 9(4):235-249 (1996) * Huggins, H. and Levy, T., "Cerebrospinal Fluid Protein Changes in Multiple Sclerosis After Dental Amalgam Removal," Alternative Medicine Review, 3(4):295-300 (1998) * Huggins, H. and Levy, T., Uninformed Consent: The Hidden Dangers in Dental Care, Charlottesville, VA: Hampton Roads Publishing Company, Inc.; 1999 * Levy, T., Optimal Nutrition for Optimal Health: The Real Truth About Eating Right for Weight Loss, Detoxification, Low Cholesterol, Better Digestion, and Overall Well-Being, New York, NY: McGraw-Hill (Keats Publishing); 2001 * Kulacz, R. and Levy, T., The Roots of Disease: Connecting Dentistry and Medicine, Philadelphia, PA: Xlibris Corporation; 2002 * Levy, T., Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2002 * Levy, T., Stop America's #1 Killer! Reversible Vitamin Deficiency Found to be Original of ALL Coronary Heart Disease, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2006 * Levy, T., GSH: Master Defender Against Disease, Toxins, and Aging, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2008 * Levy, T., Living in Your Right Mind, Henderson, NV: Medfox Publishing; 2010 * Levy, T., Primal Panacea, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2011 * Levy, T., Death by Calcium, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2013 * Kulacz, R. and Levy, T., The Toxic Tooth, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2014 * Levy, T., Hidden Epidemic, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2017 * Levy, T., Magnesium: Reversing Disease, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2019 * Levy, T., Rapid Virus Recovery: No need to live in fear!, Henderson, NV: MedFox Publishing; 2021

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this week's episode I interview Dr Jason Han of Healthfit. Not only is Dr Han an incredible Physiotherapist and practitioner to the professional sports teams but he is an expert in Hyperbaric oxygen therapy and has seen first hand it's incredible impact. He shares how he got into after his mother in law suffered a traumatic brain injury and was suffering, with nothing working from a traditional medical point of view. In his desperation to help her he turned to Hyperbaric and never looked back, he then went on to use it with his athletes and his patients at his clinic.

Dr Han also shares his insights as a world class Taekwondo Athlete and what lessons he learned from his sport for daily life and his business.

Dr Han is also Head of North American Sales & Development for OneBase Health who help people effectively use hyperbaric oxygen therapy and works with Dr Scott Sherr, a world leading hyperbaric expert a previous guest on the show. Listen to that episode here

You can reach out to Dr Han at www.onebasehealth.com

BIO Dr. Jason Han is a Physical Therapist specializing in Sports Rehabilitation and the CEO & Co-Founder of HealthFit, a multi-disciplinary facility in Pasadena, CA. HealthFit offers a range of services, including Physical Therapy, Chiropractic, Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, and Red Light Therapy.

Dr. Han most recently served as the Head of Rehabilitation and Team Physical Therapist for the Los Angeles Football Club (LAFC) for their first six seasons. His extensive experience in professional sports also includes work with the NFL's Pittsburgh Steelers and Cirque du Soleil.

Currently, he is the Head of North American Sales & Development for OneBase Health, a technology and wellness company providing products such as Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for both home and professional use.

Dr. Ha n has dedicated his life to optimizing his skills as a movement specialist and promoting health and wellness in his community. A former elite-level athlete, he was a 7-time US National Taekwondo Team member and has earned several world medals. He brings this wealth of experience into all aspects of his wellness journey.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of "Pushing the Limits" we enter the fascinating world of Kaytee Boyd who is an integrative clinical nutritionist but really the title doesn't really explain the depth of knowledge and expertise and clinical insights this wonderful lady has to share. We do a deep dive into cancer and the role of the gut, nutrition for cancer, the foundational health principles to support you on your cancer journey but we also go in personalized medicine and nutrition and why there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to diet and lifestyle interventions. We discuss advanced testing techniques and how you can use them to better your health and much much more. Kaytee has extensive clinical experiences dealing with everything from: * Cancer (all types, all stages) * High fat diet/ weight and fat loss * Chronic fatigue * Gut issues: IBS, IBD, FODMAPS, SIFO, LIBO, bacterial overgrowth, candida * Auto-immune (Hashimotos,thyroid, Graves, Goiter skin, Rheumatoid arthritis) * Cardiovascular conditions * Genetics testing * Neurological (Alzheimer, MS, Autism, ADD, ADHD, spectrum, depression, anxiety, mental health, insomnia) * Hormones (estrogen dominance, endometriosis PCOS) * Muscular skeletal (fibromyalgia, polymyalgia)

So this is one episode you won't want to miss and we promise to make a part two. You can find Kaytee and her team at https://www.theboydclinic.co.nz/ on instagram: at @the.boyd.clinic BIO

Kaytee brings over 25 years of experience in the Health and Wellness industry. She holds a double degree in Human Nutrition and Sports Science from Otago University and is a member of the Nutrition Society of NZ. Mentored by world-leading experts across disciplines such as blood chemistry analysis, functional medicine, naturopathy, genetics, hormones, autoimmune conditions, chronic fatigue, nutrigenomics, microbiome health, autism, and cancer, she offers precision health solutions. As a MINND Foundation practitioner, she has further honed her expertise through the CHEK Institute and ACNEM, and has been honored with a Prime Minister's Scholarship.

Kaytee has served as an advisor for the Breast Cancer Network Foundation and supported the MS Society with newly diagnosed patients. She currently provides online consultations, leads cancer masterclasses, and organizes retreats for patients and healthcare professionals.

A retired professional athlete and World Cup Gold Medalist in Track Cycling, Kaytee has represented New Zealand in BMX, Mountain Biking, Road Racing, and the Commonwealth Games. Her extensive knowledge of the human body and what it takes to achieve optimal health empowers her clients to reach their highest potential.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode, we will have the part two of Dr Barrie Tan's episode.

The information you will learn from todays episode - if you take it onboard, will indeed change your life, longevity and health for the better so this is a must listen to podcast with actionable insights and incredible clinical research behind it.

What you will learn:

  • Who is Dr. Barrie Tan?.
  • What is Vitamin E - Tocotrienol?
  • What is GG?
  • What is the difference between tocotrienol and GG?
  • What is the difference between tocotrienol and tocopherol?
  • Which annatto should you take?
  • What is the link between CoQ10 and statins and GG.
  • What is the link between GG and testosterone?
  • Why should you take MK-4 and GG?...

Tocotrienols roles in bone density

Tocotrienols roles in Non alcoholic fatty liver disease, pre diabetes, diabetes, cardiovascular disease

Tocotrienols role in fighting various cancer types

GG's role in bone density, muscle synthesis, coenzyme Q10 absorption and much much more.

website https://barrietan.com/ Riverside Nutrition his manufacturing company - The research mentioned in this show is available at https://americanrivernutrition.com/

If you want to get GG, Tocotrienols or Coqnol (Coenzyme Q10 with GG), you can reach us out directly through our email support@lisatamati.com and we can organize that.

BIO

A scientist first and foremost, Dr. Tan earned his Ph.D. in chemistry/biochemistry from the University of Otago, New Zealand, and spent several years as a professor at UMass. Dr. Tan has committed himself to the research and development of phytonutrients — natural compounds found in plants that reduce and slow chronic disorders.

Dr. Barrie Tan is hailed as a trailblazer and the world's foremost expert on vitamin E, credited with discovering tocotrienol in three major natural sources and geranylgeraniol, an essential nutrient with implications for sports and active nutrition. A scientist first and foremost, Dr. Tan earned his Ph.D. in Chemistry/Biochemistry from the University of Otago, New Zealand and spent several years as a professor at UMass. Today, his research focuses on lipid-soluble nutrients that reduce and slow chronic conditions.

Dr. Tan is credited with discovering a form of vitamin E called tocotrienol from three major sources: palm, rice, and annatto — a natural dye and food coloring derived from the seeds of the achiote tree, known for its potential health benefits, including antioxidant and antimicrobial properties. Editor of two prestigious books on tocotrienol and founder of the International Tocotrienol Conference, Dr. Tan was dubbed the "Tocotrienol King" by Dr. Stephen Sinatra, a highly respected and sought-after cardiologist.

Dr. Tan has held roles of Chief Scientific Officer and Scientific Board Member for multinational organizations. His career includes periods working in association with the US Armed Forces and a Prince of Thailand. He has successfully launched multiple businesses in the nutrition industry and owns an array of patents and intellectual property, keeping him at the forefront of scientific innovation.

He is an internationally celebrated and sought-after speaker, having presented at multiple respected conferences in the field including; IFT, ADA, ASN, IHS, A4M, NPA, AACR, ICIM, IAOMT, and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

Dr. Tan is currently the President of American River Nutrition, a natural health R&D company he started with his wife, Elizabeth, in 1998. Described as a scientific pioneer, his mission is simple: improve the everyday health of people's lives through the rigorous application of DeltaGold® – the first-ever tocopherol-free tocotrienol product extracted from annatto, and the most potent form of vitamin E in existence today.

As for links, we'd love to give people a free copy of his eBook The Truth About Vitamin E which can be found at https://barrietan.com/book/ using code: Pushing The Limits

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode, world renown Vitamin E researcher and also GG researcher, author and founder of American River Nutrition is today's illustrious guest, Dr Barrie Tan.

The information you will learn from todays episode - if you take it onboard, will indeed change your life, longevity and health for the better so this is a must listen to podcast with actionable insights and incredible clinical research behind it.

What you will learn:

  • Who is Dr. Barrie Tan?.
  • What is Vitamin E - Tocotrienol?
  • What is GG?
  • What is the difference between tocotrienol and GG?
  • What is the difference between tocotrienol and tocopherol?
  • Which annatto should you take?
  • What is the link between CoQ10 and statins and GG.
  • What is the link between GG and testosterone?
  • Why should you take MK-4 and GG?...

Tocotrienols roles in bone density

Tocotrienols roles in Non alcoholic fatty liver disease, pre diabetes, diabetes, cardiovascular disease

Tocotrienols role in fighting various cancer types

GG's role in bone density, muscle synthesis, coenzyme Q10 absorption and much much more.

website https://barrietan.com/ Riverside Nutrition his manufacturing company - The research mentioned in this show is available at https://americanrivernutrition.com/

If you want to get GG, Tocotrienols or Coqnol (Coenzyme Q10 with GG), you can reach us out directly through our email support@lisatamati.com and we can organize that.

BIO

A scientist first and foremost, Dr. Tan earned his Ph.D. in chemistry/biochemistry from the University of Otago, New Zealand, and spent several years as a professor at UMass. Dr. Tan has committed himself to the research and development of phytonutrients — natural compounds found in plants that reduce and slow chronic disorders.

Dr. Barrie Tan is hailed as a trailblazer and the world's foremost expert on vitamin E, credited with discovering tocotrienol in three major natural sources and geranylgeraniol, an essential nutrient with implications for sports and active nutrition. A scientist first and foremost, Dr. Tan earned his Ph.D. in Chemistry/Biochemistry from the University of Otago, New Zealand and spent several years as a professor at UMass. Today, his research focuses on lipid-soluble nutrients that reduce and slow chronic conditions.

Dr. Tan is credited with discovering a form of vitamin E called tocotrienol from three major sources: palm, rice, and annatto — a natural dye and food coloring derived from the seeds of the achiote tree, known for its potential health benefits, including antioxidant and antimicrobial properties. Editor of two prestigious books on tocotrienol and founder of the International Tocotrienol Conference, Dr. Tan was dubbed the "Tocotrienol King" by Dr. Stephen Sinatra, a highly respected and sought-after cardiologist.

Dr. Tan has held roles of Chief Scientific Officer and Scientific Board Member for multinational organizations. His career includes periods working in association with the US Armed Forces and a Prince of Thailand. He has successfully launched multiple businesses in the nutrition industry and owns an array of patents and intellectual property, keeping him at the forefront of scientific innovation.

He is an internationally celebrated and sought-after speaker, having presented at multiple respected conferences in the field including; IFT, ADA, ASN, IHS, A4M, NPA, AACR, ICIM, IAOMT, and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics.

Dr. Tan is currently the President of American River Nutrition, a natural health R&D company he started with his wife, Elizabeth, in 1998. Described as a scientific pioneer, his mission is simple: improve the everyday health of people's lives through the rigorous application of DeltaGold® – the first-ever tocopherol-free tocotrienol product extracted from annatto, and the most potent form of vitamin E in existence today.

As for links, we'd love to give people a free copy of his eBook The Truth About Vitamin E which can be found at https://barrietan.com/book/ using code: Pushing The Limits

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode I interview founder of the The Quiet Mind Foundation Dr Marvin Berman Ph.D., C.B.T., he is specialised in Photobiomodulation psychology and EEG Biofeedback expert.

Alzheimers is set to become one of the biggest health issues

Key Projections:

World Health Organization (WHO): Estimates suggest that the number of people living with dementia, including Alzheimer's disease, will reach 65.7 million by 2030.

Alzheimer's Association: Projections indicate that the number of Americans age 65 and older with Alzheimer's disease may grow from 6.2 million in 2021 to 8.5 million by 2030.

Global Prevalence: By 2030, it is expected that there will be around 76 million people worldwide living with dementia, primarily Alzheimer's disease.

These estimates highlight the growing public health challenge posed by Alzheimer's disease as populations age. Efforts in research, treatment, and prevention are critical to addressing this impending increase in cases.

In this episode we fight back against this coming tide.

We discuss the history of PBM and it's application in a wide range of neurodegenerative diseases from Alzheimers and dementia to Parkinsons, stroke and aneurysm to traumatic brain injury to brain fog and the effects of long covid and beyond. If you have a brain and you want to preserve it then this is a must listen to episode.

We now have the technology and the research to reverse cognitive decline, no longer is the diagnosis of one of these terrible diseases, a death sentence.

We can proactively address many of the underlying issues. We discuss the thesis of the 36 holes in the roof approach that Dr Dale Bredesen (a previous guest on the show) teaches in addressing cognitive decline and how PBM covers off 34 of these and how combined with lifestyle interventions and supplementation etc we have the power to save our brains.

BIO Dr. Marvin Berman earned his Master's and PhD in Psychoeducational Processes from Temple University, where he studied group and organizational behavior. He obtained certification in Bioenergetic Analysis at the Philadelphia Institute for Bioenergetic Analysis in 1983. He has participated in extensive post-graduate training and in Systems-Centered Therapy, and the Feldenkrais Method. He was certified in EEG biofeedback in 2003. Dr. Berman is a recognized thought leader in the application of photobiomodulation and EEG biofeedback and related technologies to better understand neurodegenerative, neurodevelopmental and neuropsychiatric disorders. Dr. Berman consults with academic neuroscience researchers, healthcare providers, and integrative healthcare clinics on the application of photobiomodulation and neurofeedback.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

The longevity research world is exploding right now, it's so exciting and the technology is advancing in leaps and bounds and we are able now to discover faster than ever before thanks to AI and co to test more molecules that can impact human health than ever before in the history of mankind. What would have taken years now takes weeks or months. In this episode I talk to Michael Antonelli CEO and founder of Healthgevity. Michael is a master formulator who has spent decades in the anti-ageing and longevity space learning at the feet of many masters and who is at the forefront of working with companies at the cutting edge in peptide and bioactive ingredient development. All his formulations are science backed with clinical research and I was excited to learn about something of these novel molecules

  • Introduction to Healthgevity and its CEO, Michael Antonelli
  • Overview of Healthgevity's approach: merging clinical research, AI, and medical expertise
  • Exploring the importance of longevity in today's society
  • Michael Antonelli's journey and motivation behind founding Healthgevity
  • The role of cutting-edge science in developing longevity supplements
  • How Healthgevity collaborates with clinical practitioners and doctors
  • Deep dive into Healthgevity's science-backed formulations
  • Examples of specific ingredients and their benefits in promoting longevity
  • The impact of AI in optimizing formulations and personalizing supplementation
  • Addressing common misconceptions about longevity supplements
  • Future prospects and advancements in the longevity industry

BIO Throughout a career spanning over 17 years, Michael passionately devoted himself to pioneering methods aimed at enhancing longevity, optimizing healthspan, and elevating overall quality of life. His focus revolves around collaborating with leading healthcare professionals, researchers, and other likeminded healthcare leaders to create natural solutions that elevate patient outcomes. Michael utilizes his past experiences that integrates a diverse range of therapies and services, spanning from precision diagnostics to practice management strategies, hormone optimization, nutritional supplements, and leveraging peptides. Previous roles included Chief Innovation Officer, Executive Director, and Business Development for leading companies within the healthcare industry before founding Healthgevity. His expertise extends beyond conventional approaches, emphasizing holistic well-being and personalized care as essential components to any successful medical practice. By championing novel methodologies and innovative technologies, Michal facilitates transformative changes within the healthcare landscape, fostering advancements that positively impact both practitioners and the individuals they serve. Michael continues to remain dedicated to the pursuit of innovative strategies that enhance health and vitality while reshaping the paradigms of healthcare. Some of the products mentioned in this podcast: CARDIO NAD+ Vascular health and aging are the most important health care problem in the world today. Healthy aging requires healthy arteries and a healthy heart. Cardio NAD+ is a state-of-the-art solution which uses the most novel ingredients available to help optimize cardiovascular health. As one of the most important systems in your body, we have designed this combination to be synergistic to the many different areas of cardiovascular health while demonstrating cardioprotective effects including the emerging connection between NAD+ and heart health. Featured Supportive Benefits: * Improves net NAD+ status by supporting both its synthesis and limiting its degradation * Supports healthy blood pressure * Improves vascular aging and endothelial function * Supports healthy fibrinolytic activity and clotting function * Promotes healthy circulation and blood flow * Inhibits platelet & red blood cell aggregation * Decreases blood viscosity * Supports clinical measures of inflammation * Supports healthy blood sugar and insulin levels * Inhibits lipid peroxidation * Supports healthy lipid metabolism * Demonstrated reduction in various independent cardiovascular risk factors

Resolve+ Resolve+ contains numerous compounds that have been found to reduce the inflammatory response by targeting a variety of mechanisms.

Acmella oleracea ("jambu") is sourced from Sardinia, Italy and rich in alkylamides mainly represented by spilanthol. Its flowers are widely used in folk medicine to treat toothache due to tingling, numbness, and local anesthesia caused in the mouth. Acmella oleracea has been shown to be active in fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) inhibition the enzyme responsible for the degradation of fatty acid amides and cannabinoid type 2 (CB2) activation. There are almost 100 studies suggesting the supportive potential for anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and analgesic effects of Acmella. Studies reported in this review confirmed activities of Acmella, postulating that transcription factors of the nuclear factor-κB family (NF-κB) trigger the transcription iNOS and COX-2 and several other pro-inflammatory mediators, such as IL-6, IL-1β, and TNF-α.

Curcumin, a natural polyphenolic compound derived from turmeric (Curcuma longa L.), has been well documented to exhibit various health benefits. There have been many claims on the health benefits of curcumin on neurological, cardiovascular, lung, metabolic, and liver function, mainly through its anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. Despite its promising potential, the clinical application of curcumin has been limited due to its low bioavailability.

To enhance curcumin absorption, we are the first to feature Theracurmin Super® 85X, a proprietary curcumin utilizing the latest technology that transforms standard curcumin into an amorphous structure. Theracurmin Super® 85X uses the latest technology to transform regular curcumin particles into a more bioavailable structure. This is done by splitting curcumin particles' crystal structure amorphous, therefore, making it easily absorbed and bioavailable to maximize its supportive potential.

Tetrahydrocurcumin (4-HC) is the key bioactive derivativeof curcumin, it's also given credibility as the engine behind all that curcumin brings to the table. With a newfound ability to extract and isolate the compound, research has even seen tetrahydrocurcumin outperform its parent compound in several tests of its capabilities. Researchers have also confirmed that 4-HC attenuated pro-inflammatory indicators like interleukin-1, interleukin-6, TNF-⍺, and prostaglandin E2. After reviewing the data, we found many advantages to infuse tetrahydrocurcumin as CurcuPrime® stacked with Theracurmin Super® 85X into Resolve+.

Quercetin is a well-known studied dietary flavonoid ubiquitously present in various vegetables. Quercetin is known for its antioxidant activity in radical scavenging and anti-allergic properties characterized by stimulation of immune system, antiviral activity, inhibition of histamine release, decrease in pro-inflammatory cytokines, leukotrienes creation, and suppresses interleukin IL-4 production. Multiple studies have confirmed its supportive potential as an immune modulator and its ability to support a healthy inflammatory response. It can improve the Th1/Th2 balance, and restrain antigen specific IgE antibody formation However, chemical instability, poor water solubility and low bioavailability of quercetin greatly limit its applications which is why a phytosome technology which we feature in resolve is the preferred delivery system to overcome these limitations. This enhanced form of quercetin has been shown to be as much as 20 times better absorbed than other quercetin options.

Casperome® boswellia phytosome is a potent extract made from the resin of Boswellia serrata trees and is also referred as Indian frankincense. Boswellia extracts have been demonstrated to be effective in the management of various inflammatory response functions including those that occur in the bowel, joints, bones, respiratory airways and in the brain. The mechanism of action that involves the modulation of the natural inflammatory response both acting on prostanoid synthesis (mPGE2S) and protein degradation (caspases), and transcription factors (Nf-κB). We have selected Casperome® which is a highly standardized in boswellic acids to match the natural composition of boswellia, formulated with phytosome technology to achieve optimized absorption and has been validated by over 10 human studies.

Perilla frutescens is an annual herb belonging to the mint family (Lamiaceae). It is mainly produced in countries like China, Japan, India, Thailand and Korea. Recently, Perilla is gaining more attention because of its medicinal benefits and phytochemical contents. The functional compounds of Perilla Seed Extract are flavonoid Aglycons – polyphenols such as Luteolin, Apigenin, Chrysoeriol, and Rosemarinic Acid. Studies have shown that Perilla seed polyphenols regulate allergic and inflammatory response due to its 5-lipoxygenase inhibitory activity and suppression potential of histamine release from mast cells.

AstraGin® is a natural compound derived from the roots of two traditional Chinese herbs: Panax notoginseng and Astragalus membranaceous which contain astragaloside I, II, IV and ginsenoside Rb1. AstraGin® has been shown to provide full-spectrum gut support through enhanced absorption, microbiota and immune cell viability, and supporting a health. AstraGin® has been shown in numerous studies to increase the absorption of peptides, amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, and phytonutrients by up regulating the absorption specific mRNA and transporters, such as SGLT1, CAT1, and GLUT4. Additionally, AstraGin® was shown to reduce intestinal inflammatory biomarker MPO, the pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-6, IL-17, and IL-1β in ulcerative colitis patients.

Prime Gut Health

Prime Gut Health was created because the digestive system is the foundation of getting and staying healthy. There are many benefits to an optimal digestive system such as a healthy immune system and the protection against harmful viruses, bacteria, fungi, and yeast. The ingredients selected in Prime Gut Health work together to help restore gut homeostasis and GI barrier function. There are many benefits to taking Prime Gut Health, including: * Supports healthy GI barrier function * Helps restore gut homeostasis * Binds and neutralizes bacterial toxins in the gut * Promotes a healthy immune system and respiratory health * Supports digestive health and gut discomfort * Increased nutrient absorption * Supports gut inflammation especially within the intestinal wall * Promotes a healthier GI environment * Promoted regularity and healthy bowel function*

WHAT MAKES PRIME GUT HEALTH SO IMPACTFUL? ImmunoLin® is the branded ingredient serum-derived bovine immunoglobulin/protein isolate (SBI) with over 40 human studies demonstrating its clinical efficacy in digestive and immune health. SBI has been shown to be a broad-spectrum modulator of the immune system by targeting excessive or imbalanced immunity. In addition, ImmunoLin® works by binding, neutralizing, and removing pathogenic bacteria, viruses, and other gut irritants that can lead to inflammation. It also helps to repair the gut lining and restore gut homeostasis.*

Tributyrin (as CoreBiome®) is a postbiotic and the most important short-chain fatty acid (SCFA) for supporting digestive, gut, immune and gastrointestinal health. CoreBiome® is a unique butyrate formula intended to pass intact through the stomach and small intestine to deliver butyrate right where it's needed—the colon.

CoreBiome® supports:

  • Delivery of butyrate to the colon where it helps maintain the integrity of your intestinal lining*
  • Helps repair the gut lining and restore gut homeostasis*
  • Tight junctures in the intestinal lining*
  • Regularity and regulation of a normal inflammatory response*

Sporebiotics:

Soil-based probiotics have been touted for their stability, ability to improve digestion, stimulate the immune system, and help maintain a healthy gut microbiota. Bacillus coagulans SNZ 1969®, Bacillus subtilis SNZ 1972 and Bacillus clausii SNZ 1971 are supported with an over 50 year history of use and over 30 human studies covering gut health, gastrointestinal discomfort, immunity against GI tract pathogens, inhibition of food borne pathogens, inhibition of bacteria causing dental carries and gingivitis along with bacterial vaginosis.

AstraGin® is a 100% natural compound derived from the roots of two traditional Chinese herbs: Panax notoginseng and Astragalus membranaceous, containing astragaloside I, II, IV and ginsenoside Rb1. AstraGin® enhances nutrient absorption by up-regulating nutrient transporters, such as CAT1, SGLT1, and FR. AstraGin® restores gut wall integrity by triggering an anti-inflammatory response and activating the mTOR pathway for rapid intestinal stem cell migration and differentiation in the inflamed intestinal mucosal barrier (epithelial cell and tight junction). AstraGin® promotes gut ecosystem homeostasis by the symbiotic effect of restoring gut wall integrity and increasing microbiota-immunity communication. AstraGin® activates the immune system through the symbiotic effect of improved gut wall integrity and enhanced microbiota-immunity communication. AstraGin® demonstrated in a recent published human clinical trial, to improve upon a number of measurable factors relating to gut health making it an ideal addition into Prime Gut Health.

PrimeTime

Prime Time is a comprehensive blend of 12 key natural ingredients shown to have a role in supporting age management powered by industry leading 10mg's of spermidine per serving. Prime Time has been formulated with ingredients to mimic fasting and catalyze your body's natural ability to rid itself of aged cells. Various publications demonstrate the potential this formula will have in your longevity protocols as Prime Time was formulated to support:

  • Epigenetic aging*
  • Boosting autophagy and promote cellular renewal*
  • Fasting*
  • Memory, cognition, and brain health*
  • Cardiovascular health*
  • Beauty from within*
  • Mitochondria*

WHAT MAKES PRIME TIME SO IMPACTFUL? Spermidine Spermidine, a natural polyamine, plays a critical role in molecular and cellular interactions involved in various physiological and functional processes. Spermidine has been shown to modulate aging, suppress the occurrence and severity of age-related diseases, and prolong lifespan.

The concentration of spermidine declines with age, and exogenous spermidine supplementation reverses age- associated adverse changes and supports health span. Given that it interacts with various molecules, spermidine influences aging through diverse mechanisms.

Autophagy is the body's way of cleaning out damaged cells, to regenerate newer, healthier cells and is the main mechanism of spermidine. In addition, spermidine exerts its effects through other mechanisms, including anti-inflammation, histone acetylation reduction, lipid metabolism and regulation of cell growth and signaling pathways.

Nicotinamide mononucleotide Nicotinamide mononucleotide, a naturally occurring molecule present in all species. NMN is rapidly absorbed and converted to NAD+, which evidence shows declines as we age. In numerous studies, supplementation has increased NAD+ biosynthesis, suppressed age-related adipose tissue inflammation, enhanced insulin secretion and insulin action, improved mitochondrial function, and improves neuronal function in the brain among much more.

Epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) Epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) is the major catechin in green tea. There is consistency in the literature about the beneficial role of green tea on senescence-related mechanisms, thanks to its scavenging properties against reactive oxygen species (ROS) and reactive nitrogen species (RNS) and its ability to stimulate autophagy

Alpha-ketoglutarate (AKG) Alpha-ketoglutarate (AKG) is a molecule involved in several metabolic and cellular pathways that declines with age. It works as an energy donor, a precursor in amino acid production, and a cellular signaling molecule, and it is a regulator of epigenetic processes.

Dihydroquercetin (Taxifolin) Dihydroquercetin is a powerful antioxidant of plant origin that can protect cells from the harmful effects of free radicals and protect cell membranes against damage

Apigenin Apigenin is a natural bioactive plant polyphenol with antioxidant, anti-inflammatory and immune system boosting properties. It also helps to support against oxidative stress for better cellular function. Studies have shown that apigenin prevents excessive loss of NAD+ by reducing the amount of circulating CD38, allowing NAD+ stores to remain at higher, more youthful levels.

Luteolin Luteolin is a flavonoid naturally found in plants. Flavonoids like luteolin have been found to have beneficial effects on human health by reducing oxidative stress.

Trimethylglycine (TMG) Trimethylglycine (TMG) is an amino acid derivative that occurs in plants and has been shown to support methylation which, in turn, supports the homocysteine levels. Taking TMG along with NMN provides the ideal balance for NAD+ production in the body.

Resveratrol Resveratrol is part of a group of compounds called polyphenols, which act as antioxidants to protect the body against age-related conditions.The anti-aging mechanisms of resveratrol are mainly modulating oxidative stress, relieving inflammatory reaction, improving mitochondrial function, and regulating apoptosis. Resveratrol is considered for the prevention and support of aging and age-related diseases as it mimics the effects of calorie restriction.

Pterostilbene Pterostilbene is a phenolic compound in the same family as resveratrol and is present in small amounts in a large variety of foods and beverages like blueberries or red wine. Multiple studies confirm pterostilbene's remarkable anti-aging effects. Cell and animal studies have shown that pterostilbene can extend the lifespan of various animal models of human longevity by regulating three major pathways linked to longevity: mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR), AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), and sirtuins

Bergamot Bergamot (Citrus bergamia) is a type of citrus fruit native to Italy. It has been shown that bergamot juice exerts antioxidant, cardioprotective properties and antisenescence effects.

AstraGin® AstraGin® is a natural compound derived from the roots of two traditional Chinese herbs: Panax notoginseng and Astragalus membranaceous. AstraGin® increases the absorption of peptides, amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, and phytonutrients by up-regulating absorption-specific m RNA and transporters such as SGLT1, CAT1, and GLUT4.

Check out all the healthgevity products in our shop.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode I have the CEO and founder of Block Blue Light to guest Daniel Ebbett. Daniel is an expert on all things light, circadian rhythms, blocking blue light, red light therapy, infrared and near infrared light panels, evolutionary health perspectives on light and much more.

In this episode you will learn:

  • What the new LED lights are doing to our health vs the old incandescent bulbs,
  • How drastically we have changed our exposure to especially the blue light spectrum through these lights but also our screens, TV's etc and how this is affecting our sleep, hormones, immune system and the SCN - the master clock in the brain.
  • We explore Daniels motivation to solve his own problems and how he managed to get on top of his chronic migraines, insomnia and get off the anti- depressants/anti-psychotics he was prescribed for this.
  • What Red light therapy is, what NM ranges do what, what pulsing does, how Red light therapy differs from infrared saunas.
  • What ailments are being explored in the research from Alzheimer's and Parkinson to mitochondrial dysfunction to mood and behavior to skin health, joint health and more.

If after listening to this episode you can visit Daniels website here and use code "Lisa" at checkout for 10% off any of their products from house lighting solutions to blue light blocking glasses to Red Light Panel.

BIO

Daniel Ebbett is a visionary leader in the field of blue light and its effects on human health. As the founder and CEO of BlockBlueLight, a premier global brand for blue and artificial light-blocking products, he has made it his mission to promote and educate the science behind modern phenomena such as digital eye strain and poor sleep, and the connection these have with screen overuse.

Through his innovative product range, he champions eye health, sleep quality, and overall well-being. His journey to create BlockBlueLight began with a personal quest to fix his own health issues, including chronic insomnia, eye strain, and migraines, which were caused by his own overuse of electronic devices.

Determined to find a solution, Daniel embarked on extensive research and discovered the impact of blue light on circadian rhythms, which can suppress melatonin secretion and cause sleep issues. He also learned about the dangers of chronic exposure to artificial light during the day, including eye strain, migraines, and even permanent eye damage.

Today, BlockBlueLight is recognized as one of the most trusted and respected international brands in blocking blue light technology. With a passion for helping people live healthier lives, the company aims to make mitigating blue light a mainstream concern and empower individuals with the tools and knowledge they need to thrive in today's digital age.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Ever since the book "Lifespan" came out from Dr David Sinclair, everyone and their dog and has been supplementing with nicotinamide mononucleotide and nicotinamide riboside and an effort to increase our levels in the body.NAD is essential to life. No energy production can happen without NAD. NAD Also decreases as we age so the question has always been should we and can we increase our NAD levels.

As usual in biology it's very complicated and as the science has developed we have learned many new detailed insights.

Here is an update on the latest in that science.

In this episode of "Pushing The Limits" I have the wonderful privilege of interviewing one of the world's leading researchers in NAD metabolism, sirtuin genes and metabolic health Professor Joseph Baur.

Professor at the Perelman School of Medicine of the University of Pennsylvania,

How can you increase NAD+ levels? And do higher NAD+ levels really lead to better metabolic health? What does the research say on their benefits for Longevity.

  • We cover this critical pathway in-depth looking what the research is saying and what it currently isn't and what we have still to learn.
  • We look into mice studies and then also where the human research is at.
  • We cover the salvage pathway as well as the Preiss Handler pathway.
  • The possible role of the Microbiome and in NAD metabolism.
  • We also discussed the various NAD pools and why the mitochondria maybe a key in a NAD pool.
  • We discuss the transporter for NAD into the mitochondria that was recently discovered by Prof Baur and other labs.
  • We discuss also the possible risk factors and how we can mitigate these.
  • We look at where the research is at in relation to cancer and NAD Metabolism.
  • The role of CD 38 as a voracious consumer of in NAD and how lowering CD38 in the body may be even more beneficial than taking the precursor enzymes.
  • We discuss also why CD38 increases as we age and what we can do about it and the role of senolytics.
  • How we can increase the NAMPT enzyme so we recycle more of our NAD And whether we need to support our methylation donors when we are supplementing with the likes of NMB and NR.

If you are fascinated by longevity science and want to know how you can optimise your health moving forward then this is the episode for you!

Want to try NMN, TMG and quercetin to support your healthy NAD metabolism you can find them in my shop

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" I interview one of my idols in the world of health optimisation medicine, hyperbaric oxygen therapy and cellular health Dr Scott Sherr, a repeat guest to the show.

In this episode we go deep into the benefits of:

  • Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, what it does, the pathways it affects from:
  • Stem cell production to inflammation downregulation to lymphatic support to angiogenesis
  • We discuss the health issues this powerful therapy can benefit
  • We discuss protocols, the different types of chambers and pressures and how to build a foundational health protocol around the person's treatment.

We also do a deep dive into one of my favorite research subjects at the moment - Methylene Blue and it's myriad of effects in the body and how it may help support:

  • energy production by bypassing the first two complexes in the electron transport chain in the mitochondria
  • what ailments it may help with from alzheimers and cognitive declines to TBI to UTI's to depression to athletic performance to carbon monoxide poisoning, mitochondrial dysfunction to malaria and it's use as the world's first antibiotic and more
  • We dive into it's long history and where the current science stands on this exciting compound.
  • We look at how it has a biphasic response curve and how it works as both an antioxidant and pro oxidant and why pharmaceutical grade is crucial.

Then we dive into the GABA system and how it affects recovery and sleep and formulations that support this system besides taking actual GABA that alone doesn't cross into the blood brain barrier.

We also discuss Dr Scott's and Dr Ted Achacoso's non profit educational arm https://homehope.org/ where doctors and practitioners can advance their learning in the holobiont. They provide the framework for doctors and health care practitioners to learn how to optimize their clients' health, rather than treat disease. Health Optimization Medicine (HOMe) was founded in the Philippines by Dr. Theodore Achacoso after realizing that illness medicine, in which he is trained and excels as an interventional neuroradiologist and pharmacologist, was reactive, interventional, and could benefit from an entirely different approach: one that optimized health rather than treated disease.

Over several years, he became an expert in the intricacies and power of metabolomic, gut, and hormone optimization, along with the additional pillars of what became HOMe.

How to find Dr Scott and his work You can visit Dr Scott's hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinics at https://www.hyperbaricmedicalsolutions.com

Visit his supplement company Troscriptions where they have formulations including methylene Blue among others here

You can use the code LISA

His hyperbaric educational company One Base Health here

Transcription products from Dr Scotts company are not available for New Zealanders unfortunately however if you are interested in getting methylene Blue please reach out to us directly at support@lisatamati.com BIO Dr. Scott Sherr is a Board Certified Internal Medicine Physician Certified to Practice Health Optimization Medicine (HOMe) and a specialist in Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT). He graduated Summa Cum Laude from UCLA as an undergraduate and Magna Cum Laude with Alpha Omega Alpha distinction from the University of Maryland Medical School.

Dr. Scott is the founder of HOMe-SF, the first HOMe clinic in the United States, and is also the Chief Operating Officer of Health Optimization Medicine and Practice (HOMe/HOPe)–USA, a nonprofit education company. The HOMe/HOPe essential certification (plus two advanced modules in Peptides and Cannabis) teaches doctors and healthcare practitioners how to detect and correct the root causes of health, not disease.

In addition, Dr. Scott is also COO of Smarter Not Harder, the for-profit arm of HOMe/HOPe. SNH is the company behind Troscriptions, a line of buccal troches that are Democratizing Enlightenment by addressing the bottlenecks along the path to optimal health. They have several products on the market including Blue Cannatine, Just Blue, Tro Calm, and Tro Zzz

Dr. Scott's clinical practice includes HOMe as its foundation plus an integrative approach to hyperbaric oxygen therapy that includes cutting-edge and dynamic HBOT protocols, comprehensive laboratory testing (using the HOMe framework), targeted supplementation, personal practices, synergistic technologies (new and ancient), and more.

Dr. Scott lives in Louisville, CO with his wife and his 4 children.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

How can we hack the human body to reach its full potential — and beyond? Right now, we can't stop aging. However, we can slow it down by optimising our health to lead long and fulfilling lives. One day, we may even be able to age backwards. Through biohacking, we can use the latest medical research to our body's advantage.

Dave Asprey, the Father of Biohacking and longevity expert, joins us in this episode. Working with renowned doctors and scientists, Dave has created a solution to innovate and hack our systems to push the limits of what the human body can do. He also shares advice on fasting, longevity, and the measures he takes to live a long and healthy life.

If you want to learn more about biohacking to improve your health and well-being, then this episode is for you! You’ll find out what it takes to live a longer and more fulfilling life.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Your brain defines who you are: taking care of its health and longevity is important. I know that better than anyone after having nursed my mum through strokes, aneurysms, concussions and neurodegeneration for years.

So when it comes to brain optimisation and protection I want to know about it and Dr Lew Lim is the man to learn from. His technology is featured in the most published research in the field of brain photobiomodulation. It helps in the brain, the gut and the vagus nerve. Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer. Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience. To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to www.vielight.com Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices. For more information on photobiomodulation and this area of medicine visit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5215795/ BIO Dr. Lew Lim is an engineer with additional diplomas in Medical Neuroscience and Business and Accountancy. He obtained his degrees and diplomas from the University of California at Berkeley, University of Sheffield, Duke University, Quantum University and The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, UK.

Vielight has studies in the following areas either published or ongoing clinical trials. - Alzheimer's | Dementia - Traumatic Brain Injury - Parkinson's Disease - Autism - PTSD - Long-Covid

Cellular Enhancement - Neuromodulation - Cognitive Creativity - Cellular Enhancement - Immunity

Medical Device - Viral Recovery

The Vielight Transcranial Advantage Vie-LED technology generates industry-leading power density while minimizing heat.

Modular design bypasses hair, maximizes comfort and can target the entire brain.

Patented emphasis on the brain's Default Mode Network.

Use code "Tamati" at www.vielight.com to get 10% off any device.

https://lisatamati.rocketspark.co.nz/podcast--dr-lew-lim-2/

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode we dive into a topic that is close to my heart after watching the pain and suffering my mum went through and the complications and difficulties she has had after falling in her bedroom one day and breaking her hip. This experience of course led me deep into the research on osteoporosis and in todays video/podcast we cover 1. What osteoporosis is and what osteopenia is 2. How is it diagnosed 3. What drugs are used to to treat it - the good, the bad and the ugly of these 4. What exercises you can do to stave off osteoporosis and reverse bone loss 5. What nutrient deficiencies or diseases can lead to osteoporosis 6. What supplements can reverse and or slow bone loss 7. The role of different hormones in osteopororsis 8. The role of nutrition in osteoporosis 9. What medications can cause osteoporosis 10. What lifestyle factors can lead to osteoporosis 11. Who is more at risk for osteoporosis.

General info on osteoporosis Loss of Bone Mass Density Dexa Scan T-score -1.0 to -2.5 is Osteopenia T-score less than -2.5 is Osteoporosis Bone is 40-50% inorganic component (hydroxyapatite), 10-15% water and 35% organic component(protein). 90% of the organic component is collagen Type 1 and the remaining 10% non-collagenous proteins * Osteoblasts-formation of bone, secrete alkaline phosphatase to create sites for calcium and phosphate deposition. * Osteoclasts-bone resorption, secretes acid phosphatase which unfixes the calcium * Osteocytes are osteoblasts which are responsible for homeostasis of oxygen and mineral levels.

Function: Supports the body, protects the organs, produces blood cells, and stores minerals and fats. * Collagen, the protein that gives bones a framework for strength and flexibility * Calcium-phosphate mineral complexes, that fill in the gaps between the collagen frame work, making bones hard and strong * Living bone cells that remove and replace weakened sections of bone

KoACT-Calcium collagen chelate Animal Study-8 weeks 4 groups No supplement KoACT-increased bone density by 3.5% 10x KoACT-increased bone strength by 10% Calcium and Collagen supplement increase bone strength by 1% Study 39 women 2 groups-12 months Post-menopausal women. 5 g of CC(calcium-collagen chelate) which contains 500 mg of elemental calcium and 200 IU Vitamin D 500 mg of calcium and 200 IU of Vitamin D The loss of whole body BMD in women taking CC was substantially lower than that of the control group at twelve months KoACT improves bone synthesis and reduces bone loss * KoACT counteracts the natural process of bone loss in post-menopausal women * KoACT improves bone mineral density * KoACT improves bone mineral density better than calcium in post-menopausal women * KoACT improves total body bone mineral density significantly better than calcium in just three months * Biomarkers for bone formation were increased significantly with KoACT * KoACT improves biomarkers for bone formation, better than calcium. * KoACT improves bone strength significantly better than calcium in animals

Peak bone mass is around 30 years old. Losing 2-3% a year thereafter. 20% of hip fracture patients will pass away within a year. 1 out of 3 post menopausal women will fracture a bone Osteoporosis drugs (Bisphosphonate) slows down osteoclast activity. Increase risk of jaw necrosis and atypical femoral fractures. After 3 years of use the suggest a "Drug Holiday" Lifestyle: Lack of physical activity Excessive exercise Inflammation Smoking Alcohol Medication Family history Vitamin and nutrient deficiency Gluten Eliminate excess sugar, cigarette smoke and phosphoric acid-containing soda. Be sure your intake of calcium and magnesium is in the 700-1000 mg range of each daily. Other trace minerals, boron, manganese, chromium, copper, zinc, silicon...animal food Weight bearing activity Post-menopausal women make consider bioidentical hormone replacement. Mediterranean diet with increase protein intake. Vegetarian and vegan diets and risks of total and site-specific fractures increases significantly. Exercise: Weight bearing resistance exercise is best Vibration-10 minutes per day 2-3x per day (check with your medical professional first) Muscle-vibration 20-50 hz Exercise inhibits bone loss, frequency matters clinical research links mentioned in this podcast https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1308846/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9177517/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9431639/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499863/#:~:text=Wolff's%20Law%20states%20that%20bones,strengthening%20of%20the%20cortical%20layer. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23702931/#:~:text=Menaquinone%2D4%20(MK%2D4,health%20in%20healthy%20postmenopausal%20women. Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits", I had the amazing opportunity to be a guest on the Fit Father Project Podcast with Dr. Anthony Balduzzi.

In this uplifting conversation, I share my journey from professional ultra-endurance athlete to health optimisation, longevity, anti-aging, and high-performance expert. We delve into the incredible journey of determination and resilience that mum and I have been on.

After my mother suffered a massive aneurysm and was told she would never have any quality of life again, I was catapulted from the world of sports into the world of health. Refusing to accept the prognosis. I dove deep into the research and spent the following years helping mum rehabilitate herself. She went from having hardly any function to having complete independence, including getting her driver's license back, walking up to 5 km a day, and going to the gym five days a week.

The story doesn’t end there. After all of that progress, mum was hit with a terminal cancer diagnosis and given just weeks to live.

Again, not willing to give up, I plunged back into the research and devised a comprehensive protocol using everything from the science around the metabolic approach to cancer to peptides, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, a strict keto diet, and more.

The result? My mum is now cancer-free, while she is still dealing with a few issues she is loving life and enjoying her time as a grandmother at age 82!

My conversation with Dr. Anthony highlights the importance of mindset and pushing through mental and physical limits. I hope my story inspires you to never give up, no matter what you are facing.

Key Takeaways:

  • Mindset is crucial in overcoming challenges and pushing through limits.
  • Starting small and setting achievable goals can lead to accomplishing bigger goals.
  • Hyperbaric oxygen therapy can be beneficial for brain repair and recovery.
  • Advocating for proper medical care and resources is essential in critical situations.
  • Persistence and dedication are key in helping a loved one recover from a serious health condition.
  • Researching and implementing various treatments can lead to miraculous recoveries.
  • A supportive team and advocating for your needs are crucial in navigating the medical system.
  • Learning and staying on the cutting edge of wellness can lead to optimal health and longevity.

Dr Anthony Balduzzi a man who has helped hundreds of thousands of people all around the world with his communities aimed at whole person health and fitness. He is driven by a passion to help families in particular. At age 9 he lost his own father to cancer (he was just 42) and this fundamentally changed Anthony's mission in life. Through his unwavering commitment and efforts, Dr. Balduzzi has successfully helped over 60,000 families across more than 100 countries through his Fit Father and Fit Mother Programs.

You can find out more about the Fit Father Project and their mission here: https://store.fitfatherproject.c

Fit Father Project website

https://www.fitfatherproject.com/never-give-up-lisa-tamati/

Apple Podcast

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/never-give-up-lisa-tamatis-incredible-journey-of/id1566009525?i=1000649571160

Spotify

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Lw6adfiwuYBZEfp2tPQJI

Fit Father Project Podcast YouTube Channel

https://youtu.be/22OfJv50rGA

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits", the topic of todays show is Hormone Optimisation for men and women. We dive deep into the myths surrounding hormone optimisation and the benefits of it and delivery methods and what to avoid.

We discuss the obesity epidemic and it's influence on hormones and our exposure to estrogens in the environment and the affects this can have.

We also discuss my favorite topic peptides - discussing Jay's favorites for uses from weight loss to cognitive function to immune support to mitochondrial function.

You can download the peptide cheat sheet and his course here

BIO Jay Campbell was a competitive HS athlete in Baseball, Soccer and Basketball, Jay played collegiately for Georgia Southwestern University

While playing competitive men's league basketball at 29 in Southern California, he was kicked in the testicles leading him to a miraculous journey of self exploration where he found the wonderful and transformative power of therapeutic testosterone.

Over the next 15 years, Jay taught himself everything there was to know about using therapeutic testosterone via the experience of multiple delivery systems, consulting as a patient with various doctors, interpreting scientific studies and massive individual self experimentation and tinkering.

He became his own meticulous lab rat and bio-hacker in a world where science and clinical expertise was deeply limited if not non-existent outside of the body building and performance enhancement circles.

In 2010 through 2014 Jay competed in the inaugural men's physique division of the NPC where he won multiple first place overall trophies.

At the encouragement of his peers, friends and professionals who marveled at his physique and his comprehensive knowledge and mastery of human performance optimization, he wrote his first book The TRT MANual in 2014.

The TRT MANual and his second book on Hormonal Optimization The TOT Bible are the #1 5 STAR rated books of all time on Hormonal Optimization. He is the author now of 7 books and runs the "Jay Campbell Podcast" a hugely successful show in the states. https://jaycampbell.com/

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on "Pushing the limits" we delve deep into the world of cellular health, focusing on NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide) – the vital molecule that powers every cell in your body. Discover the intricacies of the NAD salvage pathway, the critical role of CD38 in NAD metabolism and how it impacts aging and cellular function. We'll explore groundbreaking research on NAMPT and NNMT enzymes and unveil the top supplements that support NAD levels for enhanced vitality and longevity. Whether you're a health enthusiast, a biohacker or someone looking to turn back the clock on cellular aging, this video is your ultimate guide to understanding and optimizing your body's NAD levels.

Key Topics Covered:

  • The importance of NAD in cellular health and aging.
  • An overview of the NAD salvage pathway.
  • The impact of CD38 on NAD depletion and how to counteract its effects.
  • In-depth analysis of NAMPT and NNMT enzymes in NAD synthesis.
  • Evidence-based supplements that boost NAD levels and support cellular rejuvenation.

Featured Supplements:

  • Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN)
  • Nicotinamide Riboside (NR)
  • EGCG
  • Quercetin
  • Ergothioneine
  • PQQ
  • TMG
  • R-Alpha Lipoic Acid

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this groundbreaking episode "Pushing the Limits", we're joined by Chris Burres, a pioneering carbon nano scientist and a leading expert on ESS60, the revolutionary molecule that's capturing the attention of the longevity community worldwide. ESS60, a refined form of Carbon 60 for human consumption, has been hailed for its potential to significantly extend lifespan and improve health markers.

Chris takes us on a fascinating journey through his journey in the field of nanotechnology, shedding light on how ESS60 and related fullerene compounds can impact aging, health, and wellness. From the early discovery of Carbon 60 and its initial Nobel Prize-winning research to the latest findings on ESS60's antioxidant properties, anti-inflammatory effects, and potential to enhance mitochondrial function, this episode is packed with insights on the cutting edge of longevity science.

Key Highlights:

  • The Origins of ESS60: Chris shares the story behind the discovery of Carbon 60 and its evolution into ESS60, a molecule designed for human consumption.
  • Scientific Breakthroughs: Dive into the landmark studies that have showcased ESS60's remarkable effects on lifespan extension and health optimization.
  • Mechanisms of Action: Explore how ESS60 functions at the molecular level to combat oxidative stress, inflammation, and cellular aging.
  • Practical Applications: Learn how ESS60 can be incorporated into daily life for enhanced vitality and wellness.
  • The Future of Longevity: Chris offers his insights into the future of nanotechnology in health and the untapped potential of ESS60 and related molecules.

Listeners will also gain:

  • An understanding of the safety profile of ESS60.
  • Practical tips for evaluating and choosing ESS60 products.
  • A glimpse into the ongoing research and potential future applications of ESS60 in health.
  • It's application in your pets health care
  • It's application in skin care.

Join us for an enlightening conversation that bridges the gap between nanotechnology and natural health, promising to change the way we think about aging and longevity. Whether you're a health enthusiast, a science buff, or just curious about the potential of tomorrow's longevity solutions, this episode with Chris Burres is not to be missed.

Subscribe to "Pushing the Limits" to stay updated on the latest in health innovation, and don't forget to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us bring more exciting content your way!

BIO

Published author, Host of the Uncovering the Secrets to Longevity Health Summit, patent holder with a surprising twist – he's not just a visionary scientist but also a master of comedy improv. Chris Burres is the founder and chief scientist at MyVitalC, where he manufactures a Nobel Prize winning molecule responsible for the single longest longevity experimental result in history, a full 90% extension of life. He is the intersection where science meets laughter and his life's mission is to help people live longer, healthier, happier, pain-free lives one dose at a time.

Discuss the book

3 Topics (book)

The longest longevity experiment on mammals known to man will blow you away and what I have learn from experts is worth sharing.

Questions (book)

  1. Why did you decide to write a book?
  2. What was the hardest part of writing the book?
  3. In the book you talk about your path to an entrepreneur please share this how did you know you were going to be an entrepreneur?
  4. Why are you so surprised to be the author of a longevity book?
  5. How long do you believe that humans can live and why?

Discuss the Longevity Summit 3 General Topics (Longevity Summit)

55 experts in longevity big surprises Longevity Secrets Big takeaways from the longevity summit and interviewing 55 longevity experts

Questions ( Longevity Summit)

  1. Why did you decide to put together a longevity summit?
  2. How do you see longevity and biohacking being intertwined
  3. Who were the biggest names and what did they have to say about longevity
  4. What were some of the biggest surprises from the longevity summit?
  5. What is the biggest limiting factor for living longer that came out of the Summit?

https://www.facebook.com/myvitalc https://www.instagram.com/myvitalc https://twitter.com/myvitalc

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I interview the world's leading formulator of supplements Shawn Wells AKA The Ingredientologist. Shawn is famous in the biohacking, longevity science and supplement world and holds dozens of patents and has formulated over 1000 products. What this guy doesn't know about biochemistry and longevity isn't worth knowing.

We dive deep today into

  • Mitochondrial health - why most disease has it's base in mitochondrial dysfunction
  • Why for optimal performance, health and longevity you need parasympathetic vs sympathetic balance
  • How to use mitohormesis and hormetic stressors to up your game with out tipping yourself over the edge.
  • What Allostatic load is and how to increase your resilience and ability to adapt
  • We dive into some exercise hacks - using resistance bands, eccentric loading, blood flow blocking, exercising to exhaustion, high intensity and more
  • We talk the latest supplements hitting the world from paraxanthine to understanding the NAD+ system and why it's not just about NMN or NR
  • Shawns favorite supplements
  • How to get over chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia.

BIO

Shawn Wells AKA The Ingredientologist Shawn Wells MPH, LDN, RD, CISSN, FISSN is the world's leading nutritional biochemist and expert on Health Optimization. He has formulated over 1000 supplements, food, beverages, and cosmeceuticals and patented 25 novel ingredients and is now known as the Ingredientologist - the scientist of ingredients. Formerly a Chief Clinical Dietitian with over a decade of clinical experience, he has counseled thousands of people on natural health solutions such as keto, paleo, fasting, and supplements. He has also personally overcome various health issues including Epstein-Barr Virus, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, depression, insomnia, obesity, and a pituitary tumor. As a world-renowned thought-leader on mitochondrial health, he has been paid to speak on five different continents. His insights have been prominently featured in documentaries, nationally syndicated radio programs and regularly on morning television. His expertise can help any health-conscious individual to better manage stress and experience higher performance and more energy through utilizing his practical wholistic solutions.

He as appeared on 300+podcasts, 700+Radio Shows, 1,000+ media appearances. You can find shawn at https://shawnwells.com or @shawnwells

Find his book at https://mybook.to/the-energy-formula

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I interview longevity queen, Dr Sandra Kaufmann the author of the Kaufmann Protocol and Aging Solutions.

Dr Sandra is the head of department of Anesthesiology at and just happens to be obsessed with longevity science. What started out as her own search to slow and reverse ageing turned into a comprehensive system that allows people to personalize their own regime to their particular set of problems or needs and goals. This ingenious system has revolutionized my approach and makes it so simple to construct a very personalized approach.

There are innumerable things a person can read concerning aging, but at the most basic level, organisms age because their component cells age. We are all made of cells or cell products and as they falter, so do we.

Because cell aging is multifactorial, the organization of these concepts is important. The Protocol organizes these various theories of cellular aging into seven categories or tenets. The information in this podcast discusses these concepts in the language of science.

The following seven tenets encompass all of the presently known modes of cellular aging. Based on this organizational scheme, Dr Kaufman then developed a strategy where aging is curtailed in every category.

The 7 Tenets are as follows:

  • DNA alterations (telomere attrition, epigenetics) Mitochondrial failure
  • Pathways (Sirtuins, AMP Kinase, mTOR)
  • Quality control (DNA & Protein repair mechanisms and Autophagy)
  • Immune and inflammatory systems
  • Individual cell needs (Senescent, Stem cells)
  • Waste management (Glycation, lipofuscin)

Dr Kaufman explains her rating system for various longevity molecules and how to utilize these in your protocols.

We also discuss many of the supplements and adjuvants that Dr Kaufmann recommends for each of these tenets and we look at other cutting edge regenerative modalities like Exosomes. Stem cells are fantastic in terms of longevity, however there are limitations. Exogenous stem cells are currently not available in this country. Meanwhile, autologous stem cells are only as healthy as the person they which they come. Exosomes, on the other hand, constitute up to 80% of the benefits seen with stem cells and are available through Dr Kaufmann in the United States at least, in addition to being less expensive.

I highly recommend Dr Kaufman's books, these are major reference book that will serve those looking to optimise their health, performance and longevity. Links Below

Dr Sandra Kaufmanns website https://kaufmannprotocol.com/

Dr Sandra's Books: The Kaufmann Protocol Book Aging Solutions Book

If you are interested in getting Exosomes done after listening to the episode join Dr Kaufmann's interview reach out to me at support@lisatamati.com

Instagram: @kaufmanantiaging

BIO Dr. Kaufmann began her academic career in the field of cellular biology, earning a Master's Degree from the University of Connecticut in Tropical Ecology and Plant Physiology. Turning to medicine, she received her medical Degree at the University of Maryland, and completed a residency and fellowship at Johns Hopkins in the field of pediatric anesthesiology. For the last five years she has been the Chief of Pediatric Anesthesia at the Joe DiMaggio Children's Hospital, a nationally recognized center of excellence. Most recently, she was recognized as "Best in Medicine" by the American Health Council.

Her avid interest in the science of anti-aging began many years ago as an intense hobby. Utilizing her knowledge in cell biology, human pharmacology and physiology, this hobby has now become a main focus. The project represents years of non-clinical research leading to the first, ever, comprehensive theory of aging.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of Pushing the Limits I interview the esteemed Associate Professor Edmund Leung. A gastro enterologist and surgeon.

What you will learn in this episode:

  • What is gastroenterology
  • How the study of the microbiome intersects with the gastrointestinal surgery.
  • How can we support the health of our digestive system
  • The definitions of common ailments from IBD to Crohns to Coeliac
  • A deep dive in Lipopolysaccharides (LPS) and their impact on the health as a whole.
  • Leaky gut, zonulin, Secretory IgA, SIBOT
  • The impact of the gallbladder on the health of the gut
  • The impact of the gut on mood and behavior
  • The function of Butyrate
  • The differences between a colonoscopy and a Colonography CT and the pros and cons
  • Screening for cancer
  • The pancreas and it's role

Our gut it the seat of much of our immune system and understanding your intestinal system and how to improve your health through this lens is crucial to anyone wanting to optimize their longevity and slow ageing.

Bio

Associate Professor Edmund Leung - General Surgeon

Qualifications: MB BS London; CCT (UK) (Gen Surg); DMedSci (Immunology); JAG (Endoscopy); FRCS (Gen surg); FEBS (Oncology)

Edmund came to New Plymouth with his family just before the Covid pandemic from UK. He had been a senior lecturer and consultant gastrointestinal surgeon in UK for many years. Ed graduated medical school in London in the late 1990s and spent his surgical career in middle England, where he obtained his surgical fellowship and research doctorate in bowel cancer. At the end of Ed's fellowship, Ed spent some time in Basingstoke, UK, with Professor Bill Heald and Professor Brendan Moran further subspecialising within the fields of pelvic cancer.

Outside Ed's clinical duties, he is an active Surgical Oncology examiner for European Board of Surgery and a training convenor for the Royal College of Surgeons with now over 80 peer-reviewed publications. Ed has peer-reviewed over 300 medical journal manuscripts. Furthermore, Ed is also the International Ambassador for the British Association of Surgical Oncology, actively promoting better training, delivery of care and public awareness on cancer surgery. In 2019, Edmund was the winner of the British Silver Scalpel Surgeon of the Year.

Interests

  • Interventional and diagnostic gastroscopy and colonoscopy
  • Laparoscopic cholecystectomy
  • Hernia (Laparoscopic or open)
  • Skin tumours
  • Abdominal pain and adhesions
  • Irritable bowel syndrome
  • Haemorrhoidal surgery and other anal conditions: fistulae, fissures, proctalgia
  • Pilonidal Surgery: Simple excision to Limberg flap
  • Major open and laparoscopic Surgery: Cancer, Diverticular disease and Inflammatory Bowel Disease
  • TAMIS (Transanal minimal invasive Surgery)
  • Pelvic floor disorders: obstructed defaecation, functional incontinence/constipation and prolapse
  • Abdominal and groin hernia repair including parastomal hernia repair (open and laparoscopic)

Title or Designation General Surgeon

Post-Fellowship Training - MBBS, MRCS (General Surgery), DMedSci (Molecular immunology), JAG (Endoscopy), FRCS (Colorectal), FEBS (Surg Oncology) - Honorary Associate Professor of Surgery (Auckland)

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Dr Robert Silverman is a repeat offender on this show. His incredible wealth of knowledge in the longevity, immune system, microbiome, nutrition and chiropractic arenas is unparalleled.

In this weeks episode we dive into the:

  • Hallmarks of ageing.
  • How we can use this knowledge to make a plan to slow our own ageing
  • Why the immune system is at the base of ageing and how it affects the other hallmarks
  • How to improve the health of our microbiome for long term health.
  • What we can learn from centenarians and why the diversity of the microbiome maybe key to their health
  • How to reboot your immune system
  • Low level laser therapy

BIO Robert G. Silverman, DC, DACBN, DCBCN, MS, CCN, CNS, CSCS, CIISN, CKTP, CES, HKC, FAKTR Dr. Robert Silverman is a chiropractic doctor, clinical nutritionist, national/international speaker, author of Amazon’s #1 bestseller “Inside-Out Health,” founder and CEO of Westchester Integrative Health Ctr. He graduated magna cum laude from the University of Bridgeport College of Chiropractic and has a Master of Science in human nutrition. The ACA Sports Council named Dr. Silverman “Sports Chiropractor of the Year” in 2015. Dr. Silverman is on the advisory board for the Functional Medicine University and is a seasoned health and wellness expert on both the speaking circuits and the media. Dr. Silverman is a thought leader in his field and practice, a frequently published author in peer-reviewed journals and other mainstream publications.

Dr. Silverman was the principal investigator on two Level 1 laser FDA studies. His new book, Amazon’s best seller, Immune Reboot, was released in December 2022.

You can find out more about Dr Silverman at https://drrobertsilverman.com/dr-silverman-2 Follow him on

Instagram- @drrobertsilverman Facebook- @drrobertsilverman Linkedin- https://www.linkedin.com/in/drrobertsilverman/ Youtube- https://www.youtube.com/c/DrRobertSilverman

Grab his book "Immune Reboot"

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode I interview the founder of the The Fit Father/The Fit Mother project Dr Anthony Balduzzi a man who has helped hundreds of thousands of people all around the world with his communities aimed at whole person health and fitness.

Anthony is driven by a passion to help families in particular. At age 9 he lost his own father to cancer (he was just 42) and this fundamentally changed Anthony's mission in life.

In this episode he shares very openly of his difficult journey and what drives him to both optimise his own health and wellness and those of others.

We talk about:

  • How to turn tragedy and adversity into power
  • How being physically strong and fit equips you for life's battle
  • The state of our population health ad where we are going wrong and what we can do about
  • The importance of primal rhythms, following seasonality, circadian rhythms and cycling
  • The art of personalizing your own health, lifestyle, nutrition and exercise regime
  • The importance of community to help you succeed with your goals.
  • The phases of life and letting go
  • Dealing with grief and trauma and becoming stronger and more resilient

You can find out more about Dr Anthony and his project at https://www.fitfatherproject.com/

BIO

Dr. Anthony Balduzzi, the founder and CEO of the Fit Father Project and Fit Mother Project, experienced a pivotal moment in his childhood when he watched his own father work relentlessly, only to succumb to illness and pass away at the young age of 42. Anthony was just 9 years old at the time. This life-changing event inspired him to dedicate his life to helping busy fathers and mothers aged 40 and above lose weight, build muscle, and improve their overall health for the well-being of their families.

As a licensed Naturopathic Doctor in Arizona, Dr. Balduzzi also holds dual degrees in Nutrition and Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. In addition to his academic achievements, he is a former national champion bodybuilder. Through his unwavering commitment and efforts, Dr. Balduzzi has successfully helped over 60,000 families across more than 100 countries through his Fit Father and Fit Mother Programs.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" Lisa interviews master educator Dr Jim LaValle, internationally recognized clinical pharmacist, author (20 books), board-certified clinical nutritionist, and expert and educator in integrative and precision health founder of the "metabolic Code".

In this episode we discuss:

  • The Personalized healthcare model
  • Cracking the metabolic code
  • What is metaflammation and inflammaging - terms you need to know
  • Why so many people are struggling with their metabolic health
  • What blood tests and functional medicine tests you should know about and why your blood never lies.
  • Cutting edge longevity hacks
  • How as a clinician to simplify the seemingly complex and explain it better to clients so they can take action and get wins.
  • Developing a personalized roadmap for you to reach your maximum health potential.

Website: https://www.jimlavalle.com/

BIO

James B. LaValle

R.Ph.,C.C.N.M.T.,ND (trad) James LaValle is an internationally recognized clinical pharmacist, author, board-certified clinical nutritionist, and expert and educator in integrative and precision health. James is best known for his expertise in personalized integrative therapies uncovering the underlying metabolic issues that keep people from feeling healthy and vital. A thought leader in drug/nutrient depletion issues he has published 4 books and 3 databases in this area alone. As such he has over 35 years' experience integrating natural and integrative therapies into various medical and business models. His latest research is in drug-induced microbiome disruption.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode we catch up with Dr Bill Andrews who happens not only to be a top age level ultra marathon athlete who has competed in literally hundreds of ultramarathons in his life time including some of the absolute toughest like the Badwater Ultramarathon and La Ultra - The High, two that I know well, but he is also a world leading longevity scientist who focuses his research mostly on telomeres and extending life span and health span.

Telomeres are found at the tips of our chromosomes and have been shown, in thousands of scientific peer-reviewed studies, to be the clock of aging in humans. When telomeres get shorter, we get older, and our health declines.

Dr Bill says that while telomeres may not be the single cure for ageing, we can't cure ageing without fixing the telomere shortening problem.

Telomere attrition (shortening) is one of the known hallmarks of aging and Dr Bill shares in this insightful interview how we can:

  • slow or even reverse ageing through the lengthening of our telomeres:
  • how he discovered the worlds most powerful telomerase inducing substances.
  • what we can expect in the near future and how we can harness this knowledge today
  • what we can do from a lifestyle perspective to slow the shortening of our telomeres
  • why lengthening telomere protects you from cancer rather than causing cancer as has been rumored in the past.
  • what the longevity and anti-aging field doing today and how he believes that the many breakthroughs are already here or coming very soon.
  • he elaborates on his life long mission to cure ageing and what he does personally to at age 72 to prevent the normal declines (hint - he still running 100 milers and going for an age group record in the next year or two.

If you want to delay disease, decline and decrepitude then this is the podcast for you!

As a scientist, athlete, and executive, Bill continually pushes the envelope and challenges convention. He has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries on the topic of life extension including, most recently, the movie The Immortalists in which he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey. See www.theimmortalists.com/watch. Bill is known for being a scientist first, focusing on scientific research, allowing others, instead, to market the products that his company discovers.

Bill has been a medical researcher in biotech since 1981, focusing on cancer, heart disease, and inflammation research, while at Geron Corporation, Bill led the research to discover both the RNA and protein components of the human enzyme called telomerase. This enzyme is responsible for preventing telomeres from shortening in human reproductive cells, and this is why our children are born younger than we are even though they come from our old cells. Inducing this enzyme to lengthen telomeres in all our cells, not just our reproductive cells, to reverse aging and declining health due to aging, is the principal goal of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings.

You can see what Dr. Bill is up to at www.sierrasci.com

Dr. Bill is the author of "Curing Aging" and "Telomere Lengthening"

BIO

Dr. Bill Andrews is the Founder and CEO of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings, a companies are focused on finding ways to extend human lifespan and health span through telomere maintenance. Telomeres are found at the tips of our chromosomes and have been shown, in thousands of scientific peer-reviewed studies, to be the clock of aging in humans. When telomeres get shorter, we get older, and our health declines.

As a scientist, athlete, and executive, Bill continually pushes the envelope and challenges convention. He has been featured in Popular Science, The Today Show, and numerous documentaries on the topic of life extension including, most recently, the movie The Immortalists in which he co-stars with Dr. Aubrey de Grey. See www.theimmortalists.com/watch. Bill is known for being a scientist first, focusing on scientific research, allowing others, instead, to market the products that his company discovers.

Bill has been a medical researcher in biotech since 1981, focusing on cancer, heart disease, and inflammation research, though his passion has always been aging. In the early-to-mid 1990s, while at Geron Corporation, Bill led the research to discover both the RNA and protein components of the human enzyme called telomerase. This enzyme is responsible for preventing telomeres from shortening in human reproductive cells, and this is why our children are born younger than we are even though they come from our old cells. Inducing this enzyme to lengthen telomeres in all our cells, not just our reproductive cells, to reverse aging and declining health due to aging, is the principal goal of Sierra Sciences and Sierra Holdings.

website: https://sierrasci.com/ The Immortalists Movie: https://theimmortalists.com/watch/ Best Choice Medicine petition, that you can sign today: https://www.bestchoicemedicine.com/

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode with Liz Parrish the CEO and founder of Bio Viva Sciences we do a deep dive into the exciting and promising world of Gene Therapies and in particular Gene Therapies aimed at curing Ageing as a disease.

Liz is a visionary at the cutting edge of a brave new world, a world where ageing may not longer exist, she is pioneer who courageously tested the gene therapies out on herself first at the first human to receive some of them way back in 2015 already.

What you will learn in this episode:

  • The motivation behind Liz's mission an why the disease of her child led her to where she is today
  • The state of the regulatory situation in regards to gene therapies and what Liz hopes to change and achieve and how you might be able to get involved and help
  • Why going after ageing is THE most important thing we can do - That ageing is at the base of most of the big killers from alzheimers to cancers and why going after ageing instead of single diseases is a better approach
  • What is AAV delivery process and how are gene therapies delivered and what is is next in this space
  • What gene therapies are already approved by the Regulatory bodies and what is next
  • Why medical tourism is the only way to get these therapies currently and how Bio Viva can use this data collected on humans to further her clinical research and the case for change in the regulatory system
  • Why we are 20 to 30 years behind in the clinics and hospital when compared to the technologies actually available today.
  • The avalanche that is about to hit the world in regards to the demographics of the ageing population and why we need change now
  • How current medical advances have bought us extended lifespan but not necessarily healthspan and how we can change that.
  • We discuss the therapies targeting Follistatin, Klotho, Telomere Attrition and others

For more information visit https://bioviva-science.com/ For those interested in getting Gene Therapy visit: https://www.integrated-health-systems.com/

If you want to join the petition to support regulatory changes in the gene therapy space please go to: Every day thousands of patients die from aging-associated non-communicable diseases (AA-NCDs). AA-NCDs have been recognised by the United Nations as a "threat to global development." and a mandate has been set to improve the consequences of such diseases. Helping patients get access to new therapeutics is Best Choice Medicine's primary objective. bestchoicemedicine.org BIO Elizabeth Parrish

CEO

Elizabeth Parrish is a humanitarian, entrepreneur, innovator, author, and advocate for genetic cures. As a proponent of progress and education for the advancement of regenerative medicine, she serves as a motivational speaker to the public at large for the life sciences. She is actively involved in international educational media outreach and is a founding member of the International Longevity Alliance (ILA). She is a member of the Life Science Institute of New Jersey, whose mission is to further scientific understanding of the nature and origins of human disease. She was the founder of BioTrove Investments LLC and the BioTrove Podcasts, offering a meaningful way for people to learn about and fund research in regenerative medicine.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

The longevity research world is exploding right now, it's so exciting and the technology is advancing in leaps and bounds and we are able now to discover faster than ever before thanks to AI and co to test more molecules that can impact human health than ever before in the history of mankind. What would have taken years now takes weeks or months.

In this episode I talk to Michael Antonelli CEO and founder of Healthgevity. Michael is a master formulator who has spent decades in the anti-ageing and longevity space learning at the feet of many masters and who is at the forefront of working with companies at the cutting edge in peptide and bioactive ingredient development. All his formulations are science backed with clinical research and I was excited to learn about something of these novel molecules like Peptistrong, Astragin, Factor 21, NAD3, Ameal Peptide and many more. In this episode Michael walks us through some of the cutting edge molecules, what they do and how they impact various biological pathways to hopefully improve our healthspan and lifespan. If after listening to this episode you want to check out some of the range we now have in our shop. Click the links below: Ignite -Metabolic health and weightloss Ignite+ is an exclusive breakthrough formula combining the leading ingredients available to increase metabolism, improve insulin signaling, body composition, reduce uptake of glucose into our bodies, and so much more. One of the best ways to prevent insulin resistance is to help remove excess glucose from our blood. We are the first to pair these several effective glucose disposal agents together to target several vital pathways that regulate metabolic efficiency. Ignite+ is an advanced metabolic optimization formula whose ingredients have been shown to support:

  • Reduction of adiposity and visceral fat*
  • Increase thermogenesis by raising the metabolic rate and calorie burning*
  • Browning of white adipose tissue*
  • Diet-induced weight gain*
  • Increase fatty acid oxidation*
  • Ramp up ketone levels*
  • Improves glucose tolerance and glucose control*
  • AMPK activation*
  • Leptin and ghrelin levels*
  • Regulation of a healthy metabolism and mitochondrial health*

Longevity Biological aging is directly impacted by physiological integrity. Muscle strength, mass, function, quantity, and quality loss are some of the main issues associated with the process of aging. As we age the performance of our muscle cells decline which leads to a weakened immune system, sarcopenia, obesity, and chronic disease among much more. Healthgevity has selected PeptiStrong™, Senactiv® and AstraGin® which are all clinically proven ingredients to put your muscles in the best position to thrive regardless of your age. In a recent study it was concluded that lower muscle strength in late adolescence showed direct connection with higher risk of chronic disease. As such, skeletal muscle might be the central integrator between sarcopenia, obesity, immune senescence and more in an aging biological system. Preserving muscle mass is critical for optimizing health span. Research shows the strongest one-third of the population over the age of 60 has a 50% lower death rate than the weakest, making muscle a key predictor of longevity. Recent discoveries of clinically proven 'growth promoting' ingredients have made the process of building and preserving muscle more obtainable.

PeptiStrong™, Senactiv® and AstraGin® work synergistically to target multiple mechanisms, to provide a wide range of benefits in muscle health.

CARDIO NAD+ Vascular health and aging are the most important health care problem in the world today. Healthy aging requires healthy arteries and a healthy heart. Cardio NAD+ is a state-of-the-art solution which uses the most novel ingredients available to help optimize cardiovascular health. As one of the most important systems in your body, we have designed this combination to be synergistic to the many different areas of cardiovascular health while demonstrating cardioprotective effects including the emerging connection between NAD+ and heart health. Featured Supportive Benefits:

  • Improves net NAD+ status by supporting both its synthesis and limiting its degradation
  • Supports healthy blood pressure
  • Improves vascular aging and endothelial function
  • Supports healthy fibrinolytic activity and clotting function
  • Promotes healthy circulation and blood flow
  • Inhibits platelet & red blood cell aggregation
  • Decreases blood viscosity
  • Supports clinical measures of inflammation
  • Supports healthy blood sugar and insulin levels
  • Inhibits lipid peroxidation
  • Supports healthy lipid metabolism
  • Demonstrated reduction in various independent cardiovascular risk factors

Rejuvenate

Cellular senescence is a hallmark of aging, it is a permanent state of cell cycle arrest induced by cellular stresses. This has numerous implications for the body, including its ability to adapt to changes in its environment, as well as its capacity to regenerate itself. This can be beneficial for individuals to understand how cellular senescence works and what the potential benefits are for the body. Firstly, understanding cellular senescence can help us better understand aging, as this process is a major contributor to the aging process. Additionally, it can also provide insight into certain diseases and conditions that may be linked to the inability of cells to divide and proliferate properly. Finally, by targeting cellular senescence, we may be able to find new ways of fighting against aging and diseases associated with it. Thus, understanding ways to best support cellular senescence can be a powerful tool in our pursuit of longevity and improved health span. Senolytics, are small molecules that can selectively kill senescence cells and have been developed to support various age-related diseases while also extending healthspan. In recent years, emerging natural compounds have been discovered to be effective senolytic agents that are featured in this breakthrough formula. Clearance of senescent cells can support the reduction of inflammation, decrease macromolecular dysregulation, and enhance function of stem and progenitor cells.

Rejuvenate presents a unique solution for intervention through two mechanisms:

(1) eliminating senescent cells (senolytics)

(2) inhibiting of senescent- associated secretory phenotype (SASP)

Featured benefits:

  • Once weekly pulsed high dosing blend of senolytics which have been shown to reduce senescent cells in vivo.
  • Targets aging at the cellular level
  • Induces autophagy to promote intracellular recycling and cellular renewal
  • Reduce full body features of Senescence-Associated Secretory Phenotype (SASP).
  • Protects cells against free radicals and oxidative stress
  • Targets inflammaging at the cellular level and supports a healthy inflammatory response
  • Supports a healthy immune system
  • Formula designed to also treat muscle senescence.
  • Exercises muscles longer and harder with a boost in citrate synthase activity.
  • Recovers more effectively with a reduction in inflammation biomarkers.
  • Decreases SA-β-Gal by 63% in muscle tissue.

For more information on Michael and Healthgevity you can also go to www.healthgev.com BIO Throughout a career spanning over 17 years, Michael passionately devoted himself to pioneering methods aimed at enhancing longevity, optimizing healthspan, and elevating overall quality of life. His focus revolves around collaborating with leading healthcare professionals, researchers, and other likeminded healthcare leaders to create natural solutions that elevate patient outcomes.

Michael utilizes his past experiences that integrates a diverse range of therapies and services, spanning from precision diagnostics to practice management strategies, hormone optimization, nutritional supplements, and leveraging peptides. Previous roles included Chief Innovation Officer, Executive Director, and Business Development for leading companies within the healthcare industry before founding Healthgevity. His expertise extends beyond conventional approaches, emphasizing holistic well-being and personalized care as essential components to any successful medical practice.

By championing novel methodologies and innovative technologies, Michal facilitates transformative changes within the healthcare landscape, fostering advancements that positively impact both practitioners and the individuals they serve. Michael continues to remain dedicated to the pursuit of innovative strategies that enhance health and vitality while reshaping the paradigms of healthcare.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this enlightening video, delve into the transformative world of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) and discover its incredible uses and benefits for overall well-being. Join us as we explore the science behind HBOT and its potential to enhance healing, support recovery, and promote holistic health.

Dr. Scott Sherr: Meet the renowned expert, Dr. Scott Sherr, a leading authority in Hyperbaric Medicine. With a wealth of experience and expertise, Dr. Sherr has been at the forefront of pioneering research and applications of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy. Learn about his groundbreaking work, innovative approaches, and how he has contributed to advancing our understanding of HBOT's impact on various health conditions.

Key Topics Covered:

  • Understanding Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy
  • Benefits for Wound Healing and Tissue Repair
  • Neurological Applications and Cognitive Enhancement
  • Athletic Performance and Recovery
  • Supporting Cancer Treatment
  • Dr. Scott Sherr's Contributions to Hyperbaric Medicine

Scientific Insights: Explore the scientific principles behind HBOT, including increased oxygen levels, angiogenesis, and its effects on stem cells. Gain a comprehensive understanding of how this non-invasive therapy is being harnessed to address a diverse range of health challenges.

Unlock Your Healing Potential: Discover how Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy may hold the key to unlocking your body's innate healing potential. Whether you're interested in accelerated recovery, anti-aging benefits, or exploring complementary therapies, this video offers valuable insights into the possibilities of HBOT.

Stay Informed, Stay Empowered: Stay informed about the latest advancements in health and wellness. Don't miss out on the empowering knowledge shared in this video. If you're considering Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy or simply curious about its potential, this is a must-watch!

Dr. Scott Sherr Bio:

Dr. Scott Sherr is a respected figure in the field of Hyperbaric Medicine, renowned for his dedication to research and patient care. His work has contributed significantly to expanding the applications of HBOT, offering new hope to individuals seeking alternative and complementary health solutions.

Connect with Dr. Scott Sherr: Dr. Scott Sherr's Website

Join the Conversation: Share your thoughts, experiences, or questions about Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy in the comments section. Let's build a community focused on holistic well- being and healing.

Explore More: For additional resources and in- depth discussions, visit Dr. Scott Sherr's website and stay connected with the latest updates on Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy.

Related Videos:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-jason- sonners/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZyl7cXdjxk&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7URhEEo24AY&t=11s

Stay Tuned: Subscribe to our channel for future updates on health, wellness, and the latest breakthroughs in medical science. Empower yourself with knowledge and embark on a journey to optimal well-being.

Turn on Notifications: Never miss a video! Hit the notification bell to stay informed about our upcoming content. Your journey to a healthier, more vibrant life begins here.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Join us this week as we delve deep into the intricate web of metabolic health. Discover the profound impact your gut has on mental well-being, unravel the mysteries of sex hormones with aging, and explore the critical role of sleep in optimizing metabolic function.

Learn about fascinating concepts like metaflammation and inflammaging, gaining insights into common metabolic roadblocks that might be silently affecting your future health. Our host shares a personal journey of battling inflammation, hormonal imbalances, and the chemistry of the body while running and struggling to lose weight.

Explore the comprehensive nature of metabolism, extending beyond mere calorie counting. Understand why the conventional calories in vs. calories out model falls short in revealing the full story. Discover how stress hormones intertwine with sex hormones, influencing your body's intricate balance.

Uncover the secrets behind cortisol patterns and their impact on gonadotropin-releasing hormone, shedding light on how chronic stress can disrupt sex hormone production. Learn how elevated cortisol levels may lead to weight gain, hinder repair processes, and affect insulin receptors, contributing to metabolic dysregulation.

Dive into the world of stress-related nutrient depletion, exploring key vitamins and minerals affected, and discover practical lifestyle interventions to address stress. From morning light exposure to adaptogens like L Theanine and ashwagandha, our host provides actionable tips for stress management.

Explore the physiological and psychological impact of stress on cravings and hedonic urges. Learn how allostatic load influences your body's response to stressors, affecting everything from sleep quality to muscle-building capacity. Discover the importance of rest cycles and the balance between intense workouts and recovery.

Discover personalized approaches to stress management, from adaptogens to lifestyle modifications. Our host emphasizes the significance of understanding the root cause of stress and suggests tools like box breathing, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, red light therapy, and taking time out.

Don't miss this eye-opening episode that unveils the intricate connections between stress, cortisol, weight, and immunity. Gain valuable insights into optimizing your metabolic health and embark on a journey to reclaiming balance in your body. Ready to take the first step towards a healthier you? Listen now and explore the profound link between stress, metabolism, and overall well-being.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" welcome to an in-depth exploration of the revolutionary world of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) and its profound connection to stem cell production in the human body. In this comprehensive video, we embark on a journey to unravel the intricacies of HBOT, shedding light on its mechanisms, applications, and the fascinating interplay with stem cells.

Connect with us: Website: www.lisatamati.com Instagram: @lisatamati Facebook: /lisatamati Twitter: @lisaytamati

Video Highlights: Join us as we navigate the depths of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy, a cutting-edge medical intervention that harnesses the power of pressurized oxygen to stimulate healing. Throughout the video, we'll address fundamental questions such as:

What is Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy? Uncover the science behind the pressurized chambers and how they enhance oxygen delivery to body tissues. Stem Cells Demystified: Delve into the world of stem cells, understanding their pivotal role in regeneration, repair, and overall health.

The Science Unveiled: We'll break down the scientific principles that make HBOT a compelling avenue for medical intervention. Explore how increased oxygen levels under pressure influence cellular processes, and the potential implications for stem cell mobilization.

Stem Cells and Healing: Discover the critical role stem cells play in the body's natural healing processes. From tissue repair to immune system support, we'll examine the versatility of stem cells and why they are considered the building blocks of regeneration.

How Does HBOT Boost Stem Cell Production? Unravel the intricate mechanisms through which Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy may enhance the body's ability to mobilize and activate stem cells. This includes the impact on tissue microenvironments, angiogenesis, and anti-inflammatory responses.

Applications in Health and Medicine: Explore the diverse range of medical applications for HBOT, from chronic wound healing to neurological disorders. Gain insights into ongoing research and the potential future developments in regenerative medicine.

Expert Interviews and Testimonials: We've consulted with leading experts in the field to provide a holistic perspective on the efficacy and safety of HBOT. Hear firsthand testimonials from individuals who have experienced the benefits.

Related Research: Listen to these these podcast episodes on our show "Pushing the Limits" on Stem Cell mobilisation: with Stem Cell Scientist Dr Christian Drapeau https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-christian-drapeau/

On Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy: with Dr Jason Sonners: https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-jason-sonners/

with Dr Scott Sherr https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast-dr-scott-sherr_/

If you would like to try STEMREGEN, the stem cell supplement by Dr Christian Drapeau go here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/search?q=stemregen

Educational Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:30 - Understanding Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy 07:15 - The Marvels of Stem Cells 11:45 - Bridging the Gap: HBOT and Stem Cell Interaction 16:30 - Real-world Applications and Case Studies 21:00 - Expert Insights and Interviews 25:45 - The Future of HBOT and Regenerative Medicine

Subscribe Now for More Scientific Insights: Don't miss out on the latest in medical science! Hit the subscribe button, click the notification bell, and embark on a journey of discovery with us.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" the tables are turned on Lisa as she is interviewed by renown longevity expert, author of "The DNA way", past CEO of the DNA Company in Toronto, Kashif Khan.

In this episode, Kashif and Lisa discuss the importance of knowing one's genetics in order to fully optimize your health, longevity, and rate of aging. Lisa's profile is the perfect example in this case. Lisa shares how she deals with oxidative stress, how she reverted her health into an optimal state, diet, lifestyle, and keeping her ageing rate to at 0.69 according the Trudiagnostic Dunedin Pace study, meaning she has one of the slowest rates of ageing in the world.

Throughout the discussion, Lisa also shares one of her most memorable races, also known as the world's highest running race, where she battled through a series of trials, from hypoxic concussions to ripped ligaments to asthma attacks, to lack of oxygen from being at extreme altitude, fear, extreme temperatures, and everything else unimaginable while running/walking/crawling through 222km in the Himalayas at altitudes up to 5,800 metres.

Talking points of this interview may be found below: 00:00 Introduction 00:33 Optimizing Your Health Based on Genetics 08:12 The Himalayan Race: The World's Highest Running Race 22:51 Dr. Mansoor Mohammed and Introducing Genetics to Lisa's Life 26:21 True Diagnostics Age Rate Test 29:11 Tools for Longevity 32:09 Key Takeaways for Optimal Health 35:22 Caregiving for Her Mother, and Working Against Ailments and Negativities 39:29 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy 45:56 Oxidative Therapies 50:31 Relationships and How it Impacts Relationships

If after listening to Lisa and Kashif you would like to get your own DNA testing done, Lisa can take you through her program. Go to https://dna.lisatamati.com/dna

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" join me on this journey through cellular pathways and longevity as I delve into the inner workings of cells and their impact on your overall well-being.

We start by unraveling the AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) pathway, responsible for regulating metabolism and maintaining cellular balance. We explore how AMPK senses energy levels and its activation benefits for cellular health and energy conservation.

We then compare AMPK with another key player, mTOR, and discuss their roles in cellular health and highlight the differences between these pathways and their contributions to longevity.

We will look at Autophagy, the cellular cleansing process, emphasizing its significance and its connections to both AMPK and mTOR pathways.

The video concludes by discussing how balancing AMPK and mTOR pathways can lead to a longer and healthier life, touching on the secrets of healthy aging, autophagy-inducing supplements and the drug Rapamycin.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this very funny, warm and enlightening episode with the very funny and skilled teacher, strength and conditioning coach, Phd candidate, author and broadcaster Craig Harper is all about understanding what drives your behaviours and how to get your brain to behave.

We go deep into meta cognition

Metacognition refers to the awareness and understanding of one's own thought processes, cognitive abilities, and the strategies used for learning or problem-solving. It involves thinking about one's thinking, reflecting on one's cognitive processes, and having the ability to monitor and control one's mental activities.

At the end of the day, we all generally know what is good for us and what isn't - why then don't we always do the 'right thing", eat the right food, sleep when we should, exercise appropriately

In this episode Craig shares in his very light hearted and funny way some very serious issues that we all face.

  • How to actually do what we want to do
  • How to stop our brain sabotaging our activities
  • How to create constructive habits
  • How to step outside your own thinking to evaluate what and why you are doing and feeling that way.

This is an episode that will empower you, that will help you look at the what's really going on in your mind without judgment or guilt.

You can find Craig at https://craigharper.net/

and make sure to check out his podcast "The You Project"

BIO

Craig Harper is one of Australia's leading presenters, writers and educators in the areas of health, high-performance, resilience, self-management, leadership, corporate change, communication, stress management, addiction and personal transformation. Craig has been an integral part of the Australian health and fitness industry since 1982 and in that time has worked as an Exercise Scientist, Corporate Speaker, Consultant, University Lecturer, AFL Conditioning Coach, Radio Host, TV Presenter, Writer and successful Business Owner. In 1990 Craig established Harper's Personal Training, which evolved into one of the most successful businesses of its kind and inhabited the Australian fitness landscape for almost a quarter of a century. Craig currently hosts a successful Podcast called 'The You Project', is partnering with the BrainPark Team at Monash University, and is currently completing a Ph.D. in Neuropsychology.

Craig can be heard weekly on various radio stations around Australia and hosted his own weekly show on Melbourne radio called 'the Science of Sport' for a decade. For two years he was the host of Foxtel's Living Life Now and for three years Craig filled an on-air role on Network Ten's '9AM' morning show as their resident Fitness Expert and Performance Coach. Craig currently fills an on-air role as a presenter on a lifestyle show called 'Get a Life', airing on Foxtel. As well as having written for the Herald Sun newspaper, numerous magazines and authoring seven books, Craig was also the director of Health and Wellness for DayHab; one of Australia's leading addiction treatment facilities for three years.

As an Exercise Scientist, Craig has worked with many professional athletes and teams including St. Kilda F.C., Melbourne Vixens, Melbourne Phoenix, Port Melbourne F.C., Nissan Motorsport and a long list of Olympians and world-class athletes competing in a broad range of sports. While still working with teams and individuals on a regular basis, these days Craig delivers more than one hundred corporate presentations annually.

Topics

Craig can tailor a presentation, workshop or program to suit the needs of your organization, in terms of content, aims and duration. While he delivers everything from fifteen minute virtual ‘pep talks’ to two-day, life changing, live-in programs, the majority of his work comes in the form of thirty to ninety minute keynote corporate addresses.

Here are some of the topics that Craig covers:

  • Creating a High Performance Life.
  • Becoming Ungiveupable.
  • Being the Calm in the Chaos.
  • Effective management; managing ‘me’ first.
  • Getting out of our own way. Exploring our potential.
  • Overcoming our stinking thinking. Winning the war of the mind.
  • Defining, exploring and creating success.
  • Leadership. In business and in life.
  • The relationship between attitude and outcome. Creating a winning attitude.
  • Making change a ‘forever’ thing.
  • Excuse-ology; the science of excuse making.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" I interview one of the world's leading phytochemical and nutrigenomics researchers who specializes in sulforaphane. Todays episode is all about improving cellular health, the core of health, and how activating the Nrf2 pathway through such phytonutrients like Sulforaphane (the precursors of which Glucoraphanin and Myrosinase) are found in Broccoli sprouts and other cruciferous veggies.

You will learn:

  • How sulforaphane upregulates the Nrf2 pathway
  • How the Nrf2 pathway acts as a master switch, turning on over 250 genes and impacting thousands of enzymes in their function.
  • How the Nrf2 pathway upregulates the cells own intelligent endogenous antioxidant systems
  • Why just throwing a bunch of antioxidants into the body doesn't work in quenching oxidative stress
  • The impact of upregulating Nrf2 in relation to the gut
  • How it has system wide implications
  • Why probiotics don't colonize the gut like you think they do
  • How probiotics (or certain strains) can still be useful in immune modulation
  • Why you should have a food first approach
  • The traps to watch out for when buying a 'sulforaphane' supplement and why most of the ones on the market are a waste of your time and money
  • How long you should take it, typical dosing regimens, combinations with other phytonutrients and supplements.
  • How to use this information to optimize your health
  • Why it pays to work with one of Dr Christines trained G.E.M.M protocol trained clinicians
  • Why some people have a reaction when they start, and why that means you need it most and how to adjust the dosing while not giving up

BIO

Dr Christine Houghton has enjoyed a fulfilling and varied career in Nutritional Medicine spanning more than 30 years — and her influential work continues to stay at the forefront of this rapidly evolving profession. As a clinician, author and educator, she is dedicated to promoting a model of health care that closely reflects the diet and lifestyle choices Mother Nature would choose herself. An individual's unique biochemistry is a significant contributor to this model.

Christine's intense appreciation of the power of food as therapy began in the 1970s, an era when there were very few supplements available. With few other choices, she soon discovered the real power of food as a potent clinical intervention tool; to this day, she adopts a 'food first' philosophy.

A decade into practice, she established a thriving multi-disciplinary practice, the Centre for Integrated Medicine near Brisbane. There, she specialized in musculoskeletal conditions, glucose-regulating disorders including type 2 diabetes and other cardio metabolic conditions, digestive health and infant and child health, especially those associated with immune dysfunction.

Passionate about the relationship between nutrients, phytochemicals and cellular defenses, Christine subsequently engaged in research at the University of Queensland, earning her a PhD in Nutritional Biochemistry-Nutrigenomics. Christine is highly-regarded internationally as an expert in the clinical application of the broccoli-derived phytochemical, Sulforaphane in human health. As founding director of Cell-Logic, she has formulated a number of nutrigenomically-active supplements which are underpinned by her doctoral research.

In addition to her scientific and other publications, Christine is the co-author of two evidence-based nutrigenomics courses: FOUNDATIONS IN NUTRIGENOMICS and ADVANCED TRANSLATIONAL NUTRIGENOMICS, both self-paced online courses for practicing clinicians and the only comprehensive courses of their kind available anywhere globally. A regular speaker at Australian and international conferences, Christine is an engaging speaker whose evidence-based presentations often challenge existing paradigms.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" I talk Mindset, resilience, the life of an athlete with the indomitable Tiffanee Cook - boxer, sexual abuse survivor, business owner, podcaster and all round vulnerable/tough chick.

DING, DING, DING...

No turning back now, hands encased in leather, mouth guard in and the world and everyone else in it faded into the background. Sights, sounds, thoughts, stories... gone. Blows, danger, failure, truth... standing toe to toe, bearing a soul not yet seen.8pm October 27, 2012

ROUND 1

Was this the first time she had truly 'let go', 29 years in?

Over in both a heartbeat and yet an eternity rolled into one. Terror, adrenaline, fear, courage, isolation, trust, visibility and uncertainty. Yet ironically, a certainty she had never-before experienced.

'Letting go' wasn't what she'd dreamt it to be. Emerging with both hands now free to grab hold of a whole new reality. Perhaps she wasn't truly born in 1983, but rather in a ring in 2012. The referee clutched that now free left hand and raised it above her head. A stance that changed her forever. The underdog can come out on top... they don't even have to know the rules.

One crazy 'say-yes' moment accidentally and deliberately changed the course of this girl's life. Through the gloom and darkness, a crack of light showed a path, a doorway she could and would eventually walk right through. Boxing was the playground that allowed Tiffanee Cook to develop the courage, grit, resilience, curiosity, vulnerability and power that had lay dormant within her and bend and twist it to her favor. The fight wasn't over on October 27, 2012... It had just begun, and she was now a force to be reckoned with.

BIO

Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face". Tiffanee Cook has learned this as a businesswoman, performance coach and boxer; from the comfort, predictability and safety provided by the corporate world, to the lessons and let-downs in and out of the boxing ring. Coming to the realization that, in order to have one's hand raised in triumph, adversity, discomfort and combat must be navigated. In the face of the messiness of life, do we fight or do we flee? Tiffanee speaks openly of her own personal experiences (good and bad) and how those experiences have enabled her to develop self-awareness, resilience, courage, independence and the skill to be able to maximize passion, possibilities and potential. She talks about getting knocked down (literally and metaphorically) and what it is that makes some of us get back up and some, stay down. Working in business, sport, high performance and personal development, Tiffanee explores a range of ideas, tools, skills, resources, philosophies and strategies to empower individuals, teams and organizations to improve everything from productivity, efficiency, culture and communication to physical, mental, emotional and social health.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of "Pushing the Limits" I talk to Dr Rob Silverman, Chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, author, international speaker and functional medicine practitioner, founder of Westchester Integrated Health about the gut. Your microbiome is is the key to your immune system, over 80% of your immune system is in the gut.

We do a deep dive into:

  • What is a healthy microbiome
  • SIBO
  • Leaky Gut and how to heal it
  • Gall bladder health, pancreatic enzymes and the role of stomach acid.
  • How the gut impacts your mental health
  • How the gut impacts your neurotransmitter production.
  • What short chain fatty acids are
  • All about probiotics
  • How to get rid of parasites, bacteria and viruses
  • Foods to embrace and what to avoid
  • We talk the latest on bioavailable peptides and cutting edge longevity insights
  • and much more.

If you are having gut issues, autoimmune issues, mood and behavior issues, hormonal issues, bloating, IBS, IBD, Crohns disease, autism, alzheimers or neurodegeneration then this is the episode for you!

Dr Rob Silvermans new book "Immune Reboot" is now available for sale at https://www.immunereboot.com/

Find out more about Dr Rob at https://drrobertsilverman.com/

BIO Robert G. Silverman, DC, DACBN, DCBCN, MS, CCN, CNS, CSCS, CIISN, CKTP, CES, HKC, FAKTR Dr. Robert Silverman is a chiropractic doctor, clinical nutritionist, national/international speaker, author of Amazon’s #1 bestseller “Inside-Out Health,” founder and CEO of Westchester Integrative Health Ctr. He graduated magna cum laude from the University of Bridgeport College of Chiropractic and has a Master of Science in human nutrition. The ACA Sports Council named Dr. Silverman “Sports Chiropractor of the Year” in 2015. Dr. Silverman is on the advisory board for the Functional Medicine University and is a seasoned health and wellness expert on both the speaking circuits and the media. Dr. Silverman is a thought leader in his field and practice, a frequently published author in peer-reviewed journals and other mainstream publications.

Dr. Silverman was the principal investigator on two Level 1 laser FDA studies. His new book, Amazon’s best seller, Immune Reboot, was released in December 2022.

Instagram- @drrobertsilverman Facebook- @drrobertsilverman Linkedin- https://www.linkedin.com/in/drrobertsilverman/ Youtube- https://www.youtube.com/c/DrRobertSilverman

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode I sit down with Dr Ben Weitz, a brilliant chiropractor and functional medicine practitioner and gut health expert.

Get ready for an enlightening one-off podcast episode that delves into the intricate world of gut health and its profound impact on your overall well-being. Join us as we sit down with Dr. Ben Weitz, an expert in Functional Medicine, to explore a wide range of fascinating topics that are essential for your health journey.

In this special podcast episode, we'll be covering:

  • SIBO Demystified: Understand what Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) is, how it affects your health, and the strategies to overcome it.
  • The Power of Bile: Discover the crucial role of bile not only in digestion but also as an antimicrobial agent and how it can help combat SIBO.
  • Microbiome & Mood: Uncover the profound connection between your gut microbiome and the neurotransmitters in your brain, shedding light on the influence of gut health on mood and behavior.
  • Gut-Brain Axis: Learn about the fascinating relationship between the gut and your emotional well-being, exploring how the gut can impact mood and overall mental health.
  • Leaky Gut & Autoimmunity: Understand the links between a leaky gut and autoimmune diseases, and how a healthy gut lining is vital for your immune system.
  • The Enzyme Equation: Dive into the world of digestive enzymes and their role in optimizing your digestive health.
  • Cholesterol & Brain Health: Explore the importance of cholesterol for brain function and hormonal balance, and why super low cholesterol levels may not be ideal.
  • Endothelial Function: Discover the significance of endothelial function in cardiovascular health and explore the importance of comprehensive testing beyond standard cholesterol panels.
  • Learn why functional medicine testing is crucial to understanding your health and the optimised and personalized approach you need to get well.

This episode promises to be a treasure trove of knowledge on topics that impact your health from head to toe. From SIBO to the gut-brain axis, digestive enzymes, cholesterol, and cardiovascular health, Dr. Ben Weitz brings a wealth of expertise to the table.

You can find Dr Weitz at https://www.drweitz.com/ On instagram: Drbenweitz Also subscribe to Dr Weitz's podcast "The Rational Wellness" Podcast on apple or spotify.

BIO

Dr. Ben Weitz is a Sports Chiropractor and Functional Medicine practitioner in Santa Monica, California. He has been in practice for over 35 years. Dr. Weitz is the host of the popular Rational Wellness podcast devoted to all things Functional Medicine for the last six years, available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. His website is http://www.drweitz.com and he posts regularly on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

Ben Weitz, D.C., C.C.S.P., C.S.C.S. Weitz Sports Chiropractic and Nutrition 1448 15th Street Suite 201 Santa Monica, CA 90404 310-395-3111 weitzchiro@yahoo.com www.drweitz.com

"Those who think they have no time for healthy eating will sooner or later have to find time for illness." - modified from : Edward Stanley (1826-1893) from The Conduct of Life

EDUCATION

Chiropractic College of Pasadena Doctor of Chiropractic- December 1987 Licensed 1988 University of Calif., L.A. B.A. Philosophy-1983 Magna Cum Laude Certified Chiropractic Sports Practitioner–Feb. 1995 Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist–Aug. 1996 Certified FirstLine Therapy Nutrition Healthcare Provider–April 2007

PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND AFFILIATIONS

Diplomate of the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners. Member of the American Chiropractic Association Sports Council. Member of American College of Sports Medicine. Member National Strength and Conditioning Association. Member American Society for Nutrition

PUBLICATIONS

"Minimizing Weight Training Injuries in Bodybuilders and Athletes". Topics in Clinical Chiropractic, 1997, 4(2): 46-56.

The Back Relief Book. Los Angeles, CA: Health For Life, 1998.

Dr. Weitz has written or contributed to numerous articles for various fitness magazines, including Muscle and Fitness, Flex, Men's Fitness, Ironman Magazine, Maxim, Oxygen, Muscle Mag, and most recently Maxim. He is on the advisory staff for Exercise For Men Only. Dr. Weitz has a weekly podcast, Rational Wellness, with an audio version found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, IHeart Radio, etc. and a video version found on YouTube.

Dr. Weitz is currently working on an anti-aging book.

In his own words My purpose is to teach patients how to modify their lifestyle and diet and posture and muscular balance to feel better and have a healthier life free from chronic disease. When I was young, I was very heavy. I changed my eating to a healthier, lower fat, natural foods diet, and started exercising and I lost a lot of weight. Then when I was reaching my later teenage years, I was not happy being a 90 lb. weakling–in fact a 150 lb. weakling, so I started to weight train and and eat more protein and I put on muscle and became a successful bodybuilder. I won the Mr. Los Angeles competition in 1985. I had learned how to lose or gain weight to improve my appearance.

However, I looked good, but I felt bad. I had a huge amount of gas and bloating and a lot of stomach pains. I discovered that certain foods, like dairy, and certain carbohydrate foods that had helped me to gain weight, were difficult for me to digest and tolerate. I had nearly constant symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome. I also started to suffer from hypoglycemic episodes from eating health food oatmeal cookies and bran muffins that spiked my blood sugar and I realized that I had to avoid eating such high glycemic carbs. I realized that how you eat dramatically affects your digestive system and your physiology. Your digestive system is your key to overall health. It is where you digest your food and absorb nutrients. It is the wall that must be kept intact to keep out toxins. A break down of this intestinal mucosal wall is often referred to as leaky gut. I came to understand that having a healthy gastrointestinal system is a key to your overall health. I have been studying and discovering ways to improve digestion in order to improve your health and help you to prevent and overcome chronic diseases. I want to show others not only how to manipulate your body composition, but to help them figure out a way to eat that makes them feel their best.

I also became gradually became more aware of how alterations in your posture and structural alignment can result in pain and altered function. As a chiropractor, by analyzing and helping patients to make corrections in their posture and alignment is one of my focuses in practice. This occurs both with regular chiropractic adjustments and chiropractic treatments, as well as with teaching patients proper postural cues and exercises.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode I have the world leading expert on NITRIC OXIDE to guest Dr Nathan Bryan. Dr Bryan has published over 100 scientific papers on Nitric Oxide and is the author of FUNCTIONAL NITRIC OXIDE NUTRITION alongside 4 other books. Dr Bryan has made many seminal discoveries in the field. These discoveries and findings have transformed the development of safe and effective functional bioactive natural products in the treatment and prevention of human disease and provide the basis for new preventive or therapeutic applications.

What does Nitric Oxide do in the body? Nitric oxide or NO is considered one of the most important molecules produced in humans. This simple molecule controls oxygen and nutrient delivery to every cell in the body, it regulates cellular communication and even has anti-microbial properties that protect our body from invading pathogens. In fact, this molecule is so important it was named "Molecule of the Year" by Science Magazine in 1992 and in 1998 a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded to the three US Scientists responsible for its discovery.

ADEQUATE NO PRODUCTION IS REQUIRED FOR OPTIMAL HEALTH AND DISEASE PREVENTION Loss of nitric oxide production is recognized as the earliest event in the onset and progression of most if not all chronic diseases, including the number 1 killer of men and women worldwide, cardiovascular disease. There are two ways the body normally makes NO. One is from the amino acid L-arginine. The enzyme that converts L-arginine into nitric oxide becomes dysfunctional. This is due to many factors including aging, oxidative stress, poor diet, lack of physical exercise, smoking, diabetes, high sugar diet, etc. The other pathway is from nitrate and nitrite found naturally in some foods. Each pathway contributes about 50% of the total NO production and one can compensate for the other. However, when NO production from both pathways becomes limiting, then that is when health problems start to occur.

What you will learn in this interview:

  • How our bodies produce nitric oxide and it's role as a signaling molecule that sets many cascade of reactions in the body
  • Why mouth wash may be destroying your nitric oxide production and how that affects everything from blood pressure, to dementia to gut health to immune health to cardiovascular health.
  • Why athletes will benefit from optimising their nitric oxide levels
  • What the Nitric oxide synthase enzyme is and why it uncouples and what affects this has as we age.
  • Endolethial dysfunction and it's connection to Nitric oxide Why topical use of Nitric oxide creams can prevent aging skin, wrinkles, rosacea and why how Dr Bryan used it on his father who has non healing skin wounds from being a paraplegic and how this led to his wound healing study trials and his skin care range that will revolutionize your skin care.
  • What fluoride in the water does to our Nitric oxide status and it's affects on thyroid, as a neurotoxin and how it damages thyroid tissue.

TEN FACTS ABOUT NITRIC OXIDE (NO)

  1. Nitric oxide is one of the most important molecules produced in the human body.
  2. NO is a potent vasodilator that keeps your arteries open and clean from plaque build-up.
  3. Nitric oxide is made by every cell in your body; however, production declined by 10-12% per decade starting in the early 20s. By age 40-50, we make only 50%.
  4. Loss of NO production is associated with all major cardiovascular risk factors.
  5. Prescription drugs, such as proton pump inhibitors, NSAIDS, and Cholesterol lowering Statin drugs block the production of NO
  6. Loss of NO production is due to the inability to convert L-arginine into NO so products that contain L-arginine or L-citrulline are not always effective at restoring NO production
  7. NO has been shown to support healthy lowering blood pressure.
  8. NO may help improve the aging function and make you feel younger.
  9. NO is responsible for blood vessel dilation in the sex organs and is critical for optimal sexual function.
  10. Foods like beets and green leafy vegetables are rich in nitrite and nitrate that can be converted to NO when consumed.

If after listening to Dr Bryan you would like to get the Nitric oxide Lozenges you can now get them in Lisa's Longevity and Anti-aging Supplement shop here:

If you are after the skin care range or live in the USA or Europe use the code "LisaT" to get a 10% discount at check out at https://n1o1.com/

BIO Dr. Bryan earned his undergraduate Bachelor of Science degree in Biochemistry from the University of Texas at Austin and his doctoral degree from Louisiana State University School of Medicine in Shreveport where he was the recipient of the Dean’s Award for Excellence in Research. He pursued his post-doctoral training as a Kirschstein Fellow at Boston University School of Medicine in the Whitaker Cardiovascular Institute. After a two year post-doctoral fellowship, in 2006 Dr. Bryan was recruited to join faculty at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston by Ferid Murad, M.D., Ph.D., 1998 Nobel Laureate in Medicine or Physiology. During his tenure as faculty and independent investigator at UT, his research focused on drug discovery through screening natural product libraries for active compounds. His nine years at UT led to several discoveries which have resulted in over a dozen issued US and international patents and many more pending worldwide.

Specifically, Dr. Bryan was the first to describe nitrite and nitrate as indispensable nutrients required for optimal cardiovascular health. He was the first to demonstrate and discover an endocrine function of nitric oxide via the formation of S-nitrosoglutathione and inorganic nitrite. Through the drug discovery program in natural product chemistry, Dr. Bryan discovered unique compositions of matter than can be used to safely and effectively generate and restore nitric oxide in humans. This technology is now validated in six published clinical trials. He is also a successful entrepreneur who has commercialized his nitric oxide technology through the formation of Human, to the Power of N, Inc (formerly Neogenis Labs) where he is a Founder and inventor. Dr. Bryan has been involved in nitric oxide research for the past 18 years and has made many seminal discoveries in the field. These discoveries and findings have transformed the development of safe and effective functional bioactive natural products in the treatment and prevention of human disease and may provide the basis for new preventive or therapeutic strategies in many chronic diseases. Dr. Bryan has published a number of highly cited papers and authored or edited 5 books. He is an international leader in molecular medicine and nitric oxide biochemistry.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

As you age, your bones lose density.This leads to osteoporosis,falls and fractures.

In this week's episodes I speak to Perry Eckert on bone strength and how to avoid,prevent and reverse bone loss through specific weight training using the "Osteostrong" model.

In this episode you will learn:

  • How to do a non-invasive, drug-free approach to help improve bone density and overall skeletal strength.
  • Designed to benefit various age groups and backgrounds, particularly those at risk of osteopenia, osteoporosis, and other conditions related to low bone density.
  • How to use nutrition to optimise your bone health
  • Why balance is also important to consider
  • How pilates and yoga, balance and strength training are part of the picture but why they just aren't enough to stop bone loss
  • How hormones play a role in bone density
  • How muscles help in your bone density strategy
  • Risk factors for Osteoporosis and Osteopenia:
  • Osteoporosis and osteopenia are conditions characterized by a decrease in bone density, which makes bones more fragile and susceptible to fractures. Several risk factors can increase the likelihood of developing these conditions. Here are the top 5 risk factors for osteoporosis and osteopenia:

Age: Aging is one of the most significant risk factors for osteoporosis and osteopenia. As people get older, their bones naturally become less dense and more fragile. The risk increases significantly after the age of 50 for women and 70 for men.

Gender: Women are more prone to osteoporosis and osteopenia than men. This is because women typically have lower bone density and undergo hormonal changes, especially during menopause, which accelerates bone loss. However, men can also develop these conditions, especially if they have other risk factors.

Hormonal Changes: Hormonal imbalances can contribute to bone loss. For example, reduced estrogen levels in women during menopause and in men as they age can lead to decreased bone density. Conditions like hyperthyroidism or overactive thyroid and low levels of sex hormones in men (hypogonadism) can also increase the risk.

Family History and Genetics: A family history of osteoporosis or fractures can be a significant risk factor. Genetics plays a role in determining bone density and structure, so if you have close relatives with these conditions, your risk may be higher.

Lifestyle Factors: a. Dietary Choices: Inadequate intake of calcium and vitamin D, both essential for bone health, can increase the risk. Additionally, excessive caffeine or alcohol consumption may have a negative impact on bone density.

b. Physical Activity: A sedentary lifestyle can contribute to bone loss. Weight-bearing exercises and resistance training help maintain bone density and strength.

c. Smoking: Smoking has been linked to lower bone density and an increased risk of fractures.

d. Low Body Weight: People with a low body mass index (BMI) are at higher risk because they often have less bone mass to start with.

OsteoStrong builds upon the work of Julius Wolf (1836-1902), a German anatomist and surgeon who discovered that bones become thicker and stronger when subjected to repeated oesteogenic loading.

Building on this scientific principle, known as Wolf's Law, Dr John Jaquish (a biomedical engineer) invented the Spectrum system which safely applies an osteogenic load of the precise level required to encourage the body's natural ability to rebuild stronger bones.

These Spectrum patented devices are used exclusively by OsteoStrong centres worldwide as the cornerstone of this unique scientifically proven program. We support this regime with a range of recovery technologies to help build strength and balance naturally, which then has an impact on your wellbeing, vitality and energy.

For more information you can reach out to Perry and his team at www.osteostrong.com.au

BIO Managing Director & Master Franchisor

Perry Eckert is the Master Franchisee for OsteoStrong in Australia and New Zealand (ANZ) and the Australasian Regional Developer for OsteoStrong.

His vision is to open 500 OsteoStrong centres across Australasia over the next decade, helping to address the significant and growing health problems relating to musculoskeletal health.

Perry and his dedicated team have accumulated vast experience in franchise operations and development, making him an expert in fostering business growth and brand expansion.

Perry oversees the strategic operations, including business development, marketing, and franchise support. His focus lies in enhancing OsteoStrong’s visibility in the ANZ market and boosting franchisee success.

Perry’s dedication to improving health and wellness in the community is reflected in his unwavering commitment to OsteoStrong, a global wellness franchise known for its unique skeletal strength conditioning program. His leadership continues to be instrumental in spreading the benefits of the OsteoStrong system across Australia, New Zealand, India, Asia and Europe.

Perry also owns significant manufacturing businesses with a global distribution network.

Outside of his professional life, Perry is an avid sports enthusiast who enjoys promoting the importance of exercise, nutrition, wellness practice and health biohacking. He strongly believes that everyone deserves access to the best resources for maintaining and enhancing their lifespan, and more importantly, their healthspan, which is why he’s so passionate about expanding OsteoStrong’s reach.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Ever Wondered how well you were doing on the ageing front.

Are the lifestyle interventions, the fitness regime, the supplements, the good foods that you're eating all making a difference to how fast you age?

In this interview, Ryan Smith CEO of trudiagnostic takes me through my own personal age report, the exceptional, the good the bad and the ugly it's all here.

We discussed DNA methylation, Dunedin pace study, immune age, extrinsic and intrinsic and even how my genes are in relation to obesity or whether smoking has been a part of my history (hint I have never smoked but my mum did during pregnancy and you can see that on my DNA methylation - wow) - mind you back then she was told it was healthy to smoke. Grrr.

We look to the future and why these tests are going to be a crucial tool in your arsenal of interventions to slow ageing.

By doing these tests regularly you can plot your trends, see how you are doing against your peers, compete against yourself, it's motivating to say the least.

I was super excited that my pace of ageing is up there with the best in the world at .69 of a year for every year I live which shows that much of my extensive protocol is working although I am having to claw back earlier damages done as an extreme athlete, overtraining for decades. Hmm that wasn't healthy but I had a ball.

If you would like to do the trudiagnostic testing you can find the test kits in our shop here:

https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/truage-complete?pos=1&sid=859e8b4ad&_ss=r

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out. Book you consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Photobiomodulation devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I have the indomitable Michele Hughes to guest who runs the "Timeless and Ageless" podcast where she interviews leading experts in anti-ageing to entrepreneurship to health and fitness.

Michele has tapped into the extraordinary knowledge of so many exceptional achievers and continues to learn and develop herself and share with her audiences. We both share a passion for longevity, anti-aging, entrepreneurship and learning from the best in the world and in this interview Michele shares her valuable insights.

BIO Michele Hughes has 25 years of luxury real estate development experience primarily in resort locations like Las Vegas, Hawaii, Aspen, Baja, Idaho and San Francisco. She created a hospitality division of her real estate development company where many VIP/Celebrities selected her properties for their private vacations.

Throughout her successful career Ms. Hughes has been an active spokesperson and volunteer for worthy causes. She is experienced in the media having both produced and anchored TV/Radio shows in Aspen and San Francisco that focused on good news media with inspiring interviews showcasing celebrities and ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Michele has accomplished many of her goals exemplifying her commitment to well being in her life. Currently she is the host of the longevity focused Ageless and Timeless podcast featured on the Muscle and Fitness digital platform and United Broadcasting Network .

City Sports Magazine featured her as a busy top executive role model for Fitness and Health. Arthur Ashe's National Junior Tennis League, The Regional Olympics Committee, The Buck Center on Anti Aging, Dr Barry Sears and Dr Stephen Sinatra's venture called The Zone Cafe, are advisory positions Ms. Hughes has held.

Michele is a member of the most prestigious women's leadership organization called the International Women's Forum and she has received Glamour Magazine's award twice for their annual article featuring The Top Ten Business Women.

A huge believer in philanthropy, Ms. Hughes has given her time and resources to numerous charities and causes such as the United Way, Wilcox Hospital, and Jazz Aspen. Ms. Hughes has a BA degree in English from the University of Massachusetts Amherst, an MA degree from Hofstra in NY, the core curriculum for an MBA at Golden Gate in SF and graduate study at Oxford England. Michele is an avid athlete and fitness enthusiast. She is single and divides her time between her home in the San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles.

Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis
  • Heavy Metals
  • Nutristat
  • Omega 3 to 6 status

and more

Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine .

She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that’s what it’s in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Red Light Therapy:

Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try

Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device

https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38

Or Try Vielights’ advanced Photobiomodulation Devices

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This is a powerful episode, its very raw and rather emotional but I have Aleisha Pienaar to guest who shares her story of her Dad who had a heart attack last year at the tender age of 53 and who was, after being revived, left fighting for his life in ICU.

Aleisha had read my book "Relentless" and had attended one of my speeches where I talked about my Mum and Dad's stories, It was in her time of need that these stories became the catalyst for her to fight hard for her Dad.

The ICU team were convinced her Dad would not wake up from the coma and that if he did, after having been without oxygen for 46 minutes, that his life would be not worth living and that the brain damage would be massive or he would be in a vegetative state.

They were told they must take him off life support. Aleisha reached out and I encouraged her to fight, to be vigilant and not to give up when all others had.

A couple of days after they were told to take him off life support her father incredibly, woke up and although his rehab was hard and rather long her Dad is now back full into life, working, exercising and enjoying his family again.

I share too, my personal story of fighting for my Dad in ICU and how I was blocked at every turn from getting what I needed for him.

Please note these are our very personal, real stories and your experiences may be very different but we want to share openly, the good, the bad and the very ugly of what we experienced and a message of empowerment and a message of not to give up too early. If I had my mum would also not be with us now.

We hope by sharing this, we will help other families faced with similar situations, we also hope that it might initiate change in our system.

I have a dream and that is to get a law change in NZ - to get "The Right to Try" law which is implemented in some states in the USA which basically says that if the doctors have no more answers and someone is dying that you can sign a waiver and try anything reasonable to save that person's life. I wanted that for my Dad, I was wanting intravenous vitamin C and thiamine as per the protocol of this study

But I was blocked due to legal issues and I had to fight for 15 days against the ethics committee - all mind you, while my father was dying and they had nothing more to offer and while they were actively trying to get me to sign off on taking him off life support. I eventually won the right by finding a loophole that allowed Dad's GP to come in and administer it but by then he was in multiple organ failure and could die at any minute and despite that the very first infusion (which was only half of what I wanted) dropped his CRP in half, improved his kidney function and enabled them to take him of Noradrenaline but then we were blocked for 18 hours from getting him the next infusion and again the next infusion and by then - it was way too little and way too late and I was forced to take him off life support and they morphined him in front of my own eyes until he died. Now I am left not knowing if we had been allowed to do it from the very beginning whether his life could have been saved and quite openly I have been left severely traumatized from this experience. Some of the things I witnessed in there were horrifying, I don't and can't share all of what we went through but suffice to say I believe things could have been different had we been given a chance.

BIO Aleisha and her husband, Emil, are based in Dunedin Otepoti, New Zealand. Aleisha is a full-time parent to two little girls, and Emil manages a rest home. They have a heart for people whose voices are not heard, and have invested time in humanitarian work in the Amazon Jungle, as well as local outreaches to those who struggle in their home city. With a strong mission-mindset, Aleisha and Emil are working towards creating more impact in their community. They have faced several medical challenges, including misdiagnosis of a now-irreversible medical condition, two miscarriages, as well as the very near loss of Aleisha's father to a heart attack. As a whanau, their desire is to raise awareness of complications in the medical field that can be addressed if caught early enough, and believe that if enough people are vulnerable and willing enough to share their story, we can see a change in the health care system that will bring a lot more happy endings.

And now a summary of how your book and story helped us save my dad.

Lisa spoke at a conference that Emil and I attended two years ago, sharing the story of how she rehabilitated her mother through determination, self-education, and persistence. In 2022, I found myself facing a similar situation, when my father suffered a catastrophic heart attack. In all the confusion and uncertainty, Lisa's story came to mind, and I knew I needed to get my hands on her book, "Relentless." I devoured the pages, reread my notes from the conference, and what I immediately saw was the importance of standing firm, comparmentalizing emotions, and taking the necessary steps to fight for my dad's right to live.

After a few days, we were asked to consider turning off my father's life support. I wasn't willing to settle for that result, and insisted that he remain on life support until we were able to successfully wake him and assess his brain function. The very next day, my father woke safely from his coma, and responded to instructions the doctors gave him. After a month in ICU, dealing with multiple crises and complications, my father was healthy enough to come home. His brain function is perfect. A few months of physical therapy rebuilt his muscle mass. He is completely himself, and alive, thanks to Lisa sharing her story two years ago. We are so grateful!

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out. Book you consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"

Check them all out at

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" Lisa gets to talk to a world leading anti-aging and longevity expert Dr Bill Lawrence who himself is 77 years old but has the telomere length (we explain what that aging biomarker in the show) of someone in their thirties.

Dr. Lawrence has a Jurisprudence Degree (UCLA-Law), an MS in Psychology and a Ph.D. in Nutrition. Since 1990 his focus has been on slowing and reversing human biological aging. He has developed numerous science-based protocols focused on optimal aging for health professionals and individual clients.

Presently Dr. Lawrence is the administrator of two clinical studies to determine if human biological age can be reversed in collaboration with Dr Vladimir Khavinson of the Saint-Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and Gerontology

Dr Lawrence shares in this episode a presentation of the current study data (note the trial is still ongoing) and the exciting proof we can now REVERSE aging and promote long and healthier lives and reduce our risk of morbidity and mortality using Bioregulators

The science behind this is impressive and it's human trials. Dr Lawrence is reinforcing through his findings the research of Professor Khavinson who has been working on Bioregulators and doing the research on these for over 5 decades.

I am excited to share this cutting edge information with you and to get going myself on the Bioregulators.

BIO BILL LAWRENCE JD. MS, Ph.D. Dr. Lawrence is an American biogerontologist with a Jurisprudence

Degree (UCLA-Law), an MS in Psychology, and a Ph.D. in Nutritional

Science. For three decades, his focus has been human longevity research and interventions for optimal life and healthspan.

He is the administrator of two Russian and American longevity clinical studies: Telomerase activation and DNA/Methylation modification.

These studies use Khavinson Peptide Bioregulators developed by Prof. Vladimir Khavinson of the St. Petersburg Institute, for organ regeneration, mortality reduction and reversal of human aging biomarkers.

In his presentation, Dr. Lawrence, as a scientist, will report clinical study data and, as an attorney, evidence confirming Peptide Bioregulators are the only proven interventions supported by human studies that accomplish the above.

Dr. Lawrence is chronologically 77. His average telomere length, or “Cellular Age” is equivalent to a 23-year-old. His “Epigenetic Age” measured by the Horvath Epigenetic Clock (DNA/Methylation) reports a fifty percent reduction of all-cause mortality risk compared to his same-age peers.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out. Book you consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Order your copy here: RELENTLESS - How A Mother & Daughter Defied The Odds

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: shop.lisatamati.com

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

Donate $3 to help Lisa and her team produce more great content https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode I interview Nutritionist and functional Medicine Clinician, Thiamine Expert Elliot Overton on Thiamine Protocols and nutritional deficiencies and how Thiamine could be a key nutrient that can help in many many diseases from:

  • Multiple Sclerosis
  • Kidney Disease
  • Heart Disease
  • Stroke
  • Parkinson
  • Diabetes
  • Beriberi
  • Anxiety
  • Liver Disease
  • Coeliac Disease
  • Fibromyalgia
  • Peripheral Neuropathy
  • Migraine
  • Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
  • Autism

In this episode you will learn:

  • The basics of Thiamine and how it impacts energy metabolism
  • Why functional Thiamine deficiencies are more common than you think
  • Why it helps is such a plethora or seemingly unrelated conditions
  • How thiamine is at the gateway to two major energy pathways and how it affects mitochondria - the power houses of our cells
  • We discuss the life work of a pioneers in this space Dr Derrick Lonsdale and Dr Chandler and their book Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia, and High Calorie Malnutrition

If you are interested to find out more you can get the complete clinical guide from Elliot at
https://thiamineprotocols.com/

or visit his main website at
https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/

If you are looking for TTFD one of the types of Thiamine mentioned in this podcast you can get it here:

As always this is not medical advice and is for educational purposes only, see your medical practitioner for advice before starting any supplement.

BIO
Elliot is a nutritional therapist based in the south of France, where he runs a private nutritional practice called EONutrition and consults with people virtually from around the globe. Elliot originally developed a keen interest in the clinical application of mega-dose thiamine (vitamin B1) through studying the work of Dr Derrick Lonsdale, and after several years of experience with applying high doses of this nutrient in clinical practice and witnessing the immense benefits it could provide, he now seeks to raise awareness of its therapeutic potential through educating others

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out. Book you consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Order your copy here: RELENTLESS - How A Mother & Daughter Defied The Odds

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: shop.lisatamati.com

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

Donate $3 to help Lisa and her team produce more great content https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" we have the incredible Dr Matthew Phillips who calls himself a Metabolic Neurologist. After spending over 15 years studying and working in clinical practice with patients with neurodegenerative conditions and cancer etc he decided to extend. his approach from just using medications to manage the disease by diving into the study of the metabolic dysfunction that underlies many of these ailments or that contributes to these diseases.

He uses these Metabolic Strategies as Therapies in Cancer and Neurodegeneration and is and has done various clinical trials using his approach
His foremost passion is to explore the potential feasibility, safety, and efficacy of metabolic therapies, particularly fasting and ketogenic diets, in creating alternate metabolic states that enhance neuron bioenergetics and may lead to improvements in not only the symptoms, but also function and quality of life, for people with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and a variety of additional neurological disorders.

Upon completing his Neurology training in Melbourne, Dr. Phillips realised that he had no interest in going the usual route of further specialising in a particular neurological disorder. He wanted to specialise in a therapy, but no such fellowship existed. Thus, he bought a one-way ticket to the other side of the world and departed the medical system, travelling and working in different places for three years, creating his own self-taught fellowship during which he learned about a variety of therapeutic possibilities that he had never previously considered.

Upon completing his 3-year "fellowship" it became apparent too him that metabolic strategies, particularly fasting and ketogenic diets, were promising therapeutic options for a range of disorders. He re-entered the medical system by commencing work as a neurologist in New Zealand, where his colleagues have helped him to apply these strategies to a number of humanity's most difficult neurological disorders so as to determine whether they are feasible, safe, and can make an impact in terms of helping patients. This has resulted in his team conducting a world-first randomised controlled study of a ketogenic diet in Parkinson's and he now has a study underway for Glioblastoma patients.

The Canadian-born, Australian-trained neurologist ultimately wishes to help create a new field of Metabolic Neurology that emphasises applying metabolic strategies in healthcare so as to potentially heal many difficult disorders at their core, with the overarching goal being the improved health and enhanced nobility of humanity.

In this episode you will learn:

  • How fasting is a part of our evolutionary history and how it benefits us in modern day society. In a world we are led to believe we have to eat 3 to 6 times a day to stay healthy.
  • What is a keto diet and how do we implement it
  • We do a deep dive into mitochondria, what they are and how their function goes way beyond the traditional view of them as "powerhouses of the cell" only.
  • What happens in the body when we fast or adopt a ketogenic lifestyle and. how it can help us with many disease processes from cancer to Multiple sclerosis to Parkinsons, Dementia, Alzheimers and more.
  • The benefits he has experienced in his own N of one experiment
  • The problems with "Germ Theory" and what "Terrain Theory" is
  • How to build immune health through fasting
    Working within the limitations of the current medical paradigm
  • How mitochondrial dysfunction precedes genetic mutations in disease processes and how we might address this.

You can find out more about Dr Matthew Phillips work and current research, publications etc at https://www.metabolicneurologist.com/

BIO
Matt is a clinical and research neurologist at Waikato Hospital, Hamilton, New Zealand. His foremost passion is to explore the potential feasibility, safety, and efficacy of metabolic strategies, particularly fasting and ketogenic diets, in creating alternate metabolic states that may benefit people with a variety of neurological disorders. His team conducted the world’s first randomized studies in people with Parkinson’s and people with a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s. He is currently conducting a clinical trial that combines intensive fasting with a ketogenic diet alongside standard treatments in patients with glioblastoma.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out. Book you consultation with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Order your copy here: RELENTLESS - How A Mother & Daughter Defied The Odds

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: shop.lisatamati.com

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

Donate $3 to help Lisa and her team produce more great content https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this week's episode of "Pushing the Limits" I interview the incredible Dr Ross Pelton AKA the Natural Pharmacist.
Ross Pelton is a pharmacist, nutritionist, author and a health educator who is widely recognized as the world's leading authority on drug-induced nutrient depletions. He was named one of the top 50 most influential pharmacists in the United States by American Druggist magazine for his work in Natural Medicine.
He is the author of 13 books including his latest one which we do a deep dive into today on Rapamycin and longevity science

About the Book and what you will learn about in this episode
(Disclaimer: none of this is medical advice, it is for educational purposes only)

Rapamycin, mTOR, Autophagy and Treating mTOR Syndrome
We discuss how the prescription drug rapamycin can increase longevity. After the discovery of rapamycin, scientists began conducting experiments in an effort to understand rapamycin's mechanism of action. This led to the discovery of mTOR, which in turn, led to the understanding of how mTOR and autophagy regulate cellular metabolism and ultimately, the health and life of all living things.

The discovery of rapamycin resulted in scientific studies that have enabled scientists to gain a totally new understanding of the aging process and how we might use this new information. The topics in this book are collectively one of the most important breakthroughs in the science of life extension that has ever been discovered.

Discovery of Rapamycin:

Strain of bacteria named Streptomyces hygroscopicus
Discovered from a soil sample taken from Easter Island
Exhibited anti-proliferative properties

The bacterium was discovered from a soil sample taken during a scientific expedition to Easter Island in 1964. The purpose of that expedition was to search for new compounds that might express antifungal and/or antibiotic properties.

Rapamycin expressed strong antifungal activity. However, efforts to develop rapamycin as an antifungal drug were discontinued when it was discovered to have potent immunosuppressive activity.

Rapamycin also exhibited anti-proliferative properties, which prompted scientists to send samples of rapamycin to the National Cancer Institute (NCI). Tests conducted there revealed two remarkable findings. The first revelation was that rapamycin suppressed the growth in a variety of solid tumors.

Rapamycin's Mechanism of Action
Over the past 25 years, research into rapamycin's mechanism of action has resulted in the discovery of a new understanding of cellular biology and the aging process.

This research has revealed that two mechanisms named mTOR and autophagy, which are found inside every cell, are critical regulators of cellular metabolism.

Breakthrough: Rapamycin's Use in Humans
A groundbreaking study titled mTOR inhibition improves immune function in the elderly was published that ushered in the era of rapamycin use in humans. The study was conducted by Joan Mannick, MD, who was a senior scientist at Novartis.

In addition to being a human clinical trial, Mannick's study is important because it sheds light on WHY and HOW rapamycin can be used safely and effectively in humans to slow down the onset of age-related diseases and increase lifespan and healthspan.

We also discuss drug induced nutrient depletions.

You can find Dr Ross at:
https://www.naturalpharmacist.net/

Also check out the Anti-aging range of supplements and information at https://theantiaging.store
You can get Dr Peltons book here:

If you are wanting to Lactobacillus Fermenteum ME-3 from Dr Ohhira you can now get this in our shop here: For the professional grade Probiotic from Dr Ohhira that is fermented for 5 years, also mentioned in this podcast you can get that here: Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" I get to interview my good friend and world class motivational speaker, NZ speaker of the year Cam Calkoen.

Now Cam just happens to have cerebral palsy but he has never let this apparent problem hold him back from anything.
From climbing Kilimanjaro to being a world class athlete to becoming one of the most well known and loved inspirational speakers of our time (despite a speech impediment)
Anything he sets his mind to he achieves and in this interviewing his infectious positivity, energy and mindset will blow you away.
You can connect with Cam on https://camcalkoen.com/ or on instagram as @camcalkoen

You will come away from this interview, uplifted and empowered and those excuses you told yourself were limiting factors will fade away when you hear his awesome stories

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode of "Pushing the Limits" I interview the founder and inventor the QRI Laser Bonnie Brandes a former teacher of children with learning disabilities, autism, down syndrome, dyslexia, ADHD, cerebral palsy who discovered the benefit of reintegrating primitive reflexes and the help and relief this bought the children and their families. Bonnie then went on a journey to do it quicker and better and rather than just using touch and acupuncture she ended up inventing a device to combine low. level cold lasers with sound therapy and acupuncture called the QRI Laser.

I have been exploring the use of this device in my mum Isobel's rehabilitation journey as I became aware after studying some of the reflexes she was exhibiting and ways to reintegrate them.

In this episode you will learn:

  • What are primitive reflexes and how they are the building blocks for our neurological development in early childhood and how sometimes these reflexes don't get integrated when they should and the implications of this.
  • We learn that primitive reflexes are automatic, involuntary reactions to stimuli such as sound, touch or movement that are essential for survival and development in the womb and in the first few month so of life.
  • How reflexes support the development of higher brain centers that control muscle tone, movement, sensory integration, cognition and learning skills.
  • They also promote psychological development and behavior.
  • How as we get older, unintegrated reflexes may trigger the "fight or flight" response and how this can lead to a stress behavior pattern of response.
  • How incomplete integrated can contribute to ADHD, autism, learning delays, reading and writing difficulties, language and speech delays, coordination difficulties, hypotonic and hypertonic muscles, poor endurance and fatigue.
  • We learn how this can also affect stroke, aneurysm, concussion victims as well as children.

Reflex integration opens the door to new possibilities and provides hope for both children and adults to reach their potential.

Visit https://reflexintegration.net/ for more information or grab the book The Symphony of Reflexes

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode I interview the incredible Dr Dave Jenkins, a Bredeson Protocol trained practitioner, GP, Founder of Surfaid International and a man on a mission to help individuals, families, and communities improve health outcomes through effective and achievable evidence based methods.

His vision is to resolve the root cause of illness and reduce barriers to true health through education, coaching, and shared care scalable models

He is a specialist in cognitive decline.

In this interview you will learn:

  • What contributes to Alzheimers and dementia and neurodegeneration
  • Why you need to understand your metabolic state
  • How to manage your blood sugar and why you should
  • How to reverse diabetes
  • Understanding mold toxicity
  • Why you need a personalised approach to these major disease
  • How lifestyle changes can greatly improve your life, your longevity and health span
  • Why obesity is an inflammagen
  • How Vitamin D and zinc affect Brain health
  • Why we need more health coaches
  • Dr Dave's work with Dr Dale Bredesen the world leading Alzheimers expert and author of Alzheimers the first survivors and The end of alzheimers and developer of the PRECODE and RECODE protocols. You can listen to Dr Dale Bredesens podcast on the show
  • Dr Dave has also published his work with Dr Dale Bredesen showcasing 10 cases of alzheimers reversal.

If you would like to get help from Dr Dave and his partner holistic nutritionist Miki Okuno visit https://revitahealth.co.nz/

They can help you tackle dementia and alzheimers, reverse diabetes and help you get more control over your health destiny.

Also visit https://reversalnz.co.nz/ for more information on reversing alzheimers along with Dr Dale Bredesen website: https://www.apollohealthco.com/dr-bredesen/

Visit https://www.vcstest.com/ for the visual contrast sensitivity test mentioned in the podcast to assess for neurological issues or possible toxin contamination issues.

Dr Dave Jenkins Bio

  • Medical Director
  • GP and Director of Wellness Initiatives – Ngati Porou Hauora
  • Founder of Humanitarian Aid Organization SurfAid
  • Optimal Health Consultant
  • Bredesen Protocol Practitioner

After graduating from Otago University Medical School in 1982, Dave's extraordinary career began with developing one of the largest rural medical practices in New Zealand with 6,500 patients; then pursued medical education as a Senior Lecturer at Auckland Medical School ; to Executive Director of a large multinational healthcare program in Asia; to SurfAid, an award-winning charity he founded in 2000.

Dave's achievements have been recognised many times over, including being a top ten semi-finalist for New Zealander of the year in 2012.

Dave is passionate about reducing disease and suffering on a global scale and helping people reach their optimal self. SurfAid programs have reduced mother and infant mortality rates in the villages where they operate, reduced the incidence of malaria in these locations and prepare residents for emergencies such as earthquakes and tsunamis through their unique "emergency preparedness programs".

Dave Jenkins qualified from Otago University Medical School in New Zealand in 1982. His career included general practice, senior lecturer at Auckland medical school, executive director for education for a multi-national health corporation and founding humanitarian NGO SurfAid, voted “one of the best Non-Government Organizations in the world” in 2007 by the World Association of NGOs, winning their humanitarian award from over 49,000 NGOs..

Semifinalist for New Zealander of the Year in 2012, Dave was also awarded the Rainer Arnold Fellowship for social entrepreneurship in 2007. Dave is recognized for his successful work with Indigenous communities in multiple island groups helping to significantly reduce their maternal and childhood mortality and morbidity using community-based health behavior change projects. As well as practicing part time as a GP in New Zealand and as Medical Director of wellness initiatives for Ngati Purou Hauora he is a functional health consultant specialising in the prevention and treatment of cognitive decline and reversal of Diabetes and Prediabetes.

He has trained with Professor Dale Bredesen and along with other practitioners has published 100 cases of documented reversal of cognitive decline and early Alzheimer’s using a multifaceted lifestyle based metabolic enhancement program.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week episode of "Pushing the Limits" Lisa interviews internationally recognized expert in the mechanisms of neurodegenerative diseases, Dr. Dale Bredesen. Alzheimer's disease is one of the most significant global health threats we face today. It is an ailment that, as our population ages, is forecasted to become a worldwide epidemic. To understand the magnitude of the problem, the COVID-19 pandemic has already led to the death of over one million Americans, however, 50 times more of the currently living Americans let alone the rest of the world— nearly 50 million — will die of Alzheimer's disease if effective prevention and reversal are not implemented. Mainstream medicine would have you believe that it can't be prevented, is untreatable, and is progressive, with most patients not surviving beyond three to eleven years post-diagnosis. After having spent myself 8 years researching brain rehabilitation in the effort to save my mum after an aneursym, stroke, multiple concussions, small vessel ischemic disease and brain cancer I know Professor Bredesen's work to be at the very cutting edge and that his programme approach really the only way to go. In this episode you will learn * the different types of alzheimer's * the many causes of alzheimers and neurodegeneration * how to take a holistic programme approach to recovering your brain * why you should get a "cognoscopy" * how to get on active prevention * stories of the first survivors of alzheimers * discussions on the role of toxins, viruses, pathogens, hormones, trophic support, insulin resistance, ketones, adjunctive therapies and more

This is an episode that could literally save your brain, the quality of your life or that of a loved one so don't miss it If you want to learn more about brain rehabilitation and the role hyperbaric oxygen therapy plays listen also to this episode with my mum Isobel. https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--cushla-young-2/ Dr. Dale Bredesen Bio

Dr. Dale Bredesen
Changing the world of Alzheimer's Disease Research

An internationally recognized expert in the mechanisms of neurodegenerative diseases, Dr. Dale Bredesen's career has been guided by a simple idea: that Alzheimer's as we know it is not just preventable, but reversible. Dr. Bredesen's dedicated pursuit of the science that makes this a reality has placed him at the vanguard of neurological research and led to the discoveries that today underlie the ReCODE Protocol™.

Dr. Bredesen earned his M.D. from Duke University Medical Center and served as Chief Resident in Neurology at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF), before joining Nobel laureate Stanley Prusiner's laboratory at UCSF as an NIH Postdoctoral Fellow. He held faculty positions at UCSF, UCLA, and the University of California, San Diego. Dr. Bredesen also directed the Program on Aging at the Burnham Institute before joining the Buck Institute in 1998 as founding President and CEO.

Dr. Bredesen's research explores previously uncharted territory in explaining the physical mechanism behind the erosion of memory seen in Alzheimer's disease, and has opened the door to new approaches to treatment. This work has led to the identification of several new therapeutic processes that are showing remarkable early results. Dr. Bredesen is a prodigious innovator in medicine, with over thirty patents to his name. Notably, he put much of his findings and research into the 2017 New York Times' Best-Seller, The End of Alzheimer's.

His most recent book, The First Survivors of Alzheimer's, presents the stories of seven individuals who reversed their cognitive decline using the ReCODE Protocol.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I had a luminary in the longevity and anti-aging medicine field to guest, Phil Micans is the editor of Aging Matters Magazine and Founder of IAS Group for Anti-Aging.
He is an expert in many areas of longevity but todays main topic was Bioregulator Peptides, an incredibly exciting continuation to our series on Peptide therapies.

A bioregulator peptide is a short chain of amino acids that functions as a regulatory molecule in biological systems. These peptides are typically derived from natural sources, such as organs, tissues, or other biological substances, and they play a role in modulating various physiological processes in the body.

Bioregulator peptides are believed to work by selectively binding to specific target cells or receptors, triggering specific cellular responses and signaling pathways. They can act as messengers to regulate and optimize the functioning of various organs and systems.

I am super excited about these "Gene Switches" - signalling molecules that help our cells and organs "act" and "behave" in a younger fashion. Regulating our organs and their signaling molecules in a way that has hardly any side effects.

Bioregulators work by supporting and optimizing the body's natural regulatory processes, while pharmaceuticals are designed to specifically target and manipulate disease pathways which can be great but also can have many side effects.

In this interview with Phil we discuss the 21 types of Bioregulators and their research history which goes back to the cold war days in Russia, the KGB and the Kremlin through to today and the American Researchers who are diving further into the research. It's one hell of a story.

We also discuss other breakthroughs in this longevity space, top researchers and doctors to watch out for and much more in this exciting episode.

If after listening you are keen to find out more about Bioregulators or to get your hands on some you can go here

As always consult your medical professional before taking any supplements. This is for educational purposes only.

   **Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati**

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks podcast we have double board certified Dr Suzanne Turner of Vines Medical to guest. Dr Turner practices cellular, longevity and Performance Medicine and is an expert on endocrinology, hormone therapy, peptides, and more.She also happens to be a kick ass Power Lifting Athlete (where she finds the time goodness only knows).

In this episode we discuss:

  • Peptides and how she uses them with her patients and what experiences she has had.
  • Bioregulators and Dr Bill Lawrence research on Bioregulators and her participation in his trial
  • We discuss the huge benefits of Hormone Replacement therapy for men and women when done right
  • We discuss cutting edge techniques, therapies for everything from PTSD to orthopedics.
  • How to know if you are fully recovered enough to work out at the highest intensity, about HRV
  • We talk anti-aging and longevity strategies
  • How resistance training benefits us on our quest for healthy aging and much more

You can reach out to Dr Turner on her instagram at @drsturneror visit her website at https://vinemedical.com/

Dr Suzanne Turner Biography

Dr. Turner is the founder of Vine Medical Associates and the VMA Residency. Double Board Certified, her thriving practice treats executives and athletes from around the world. Practicing Cellular, Longevity and Performance Medicine, Dr. Turner has special interests and experience in bioidentical hormone therapy, metabolic medicine, neurodegenerative disease, and human performance optimization. She also has earned Advanced Certification in Endocrinology and Peptide Therapy. Dr Turner is the leading expert in peptide therapy in the Southeast. She is an award-winning teacher of medical students, residents and physicians while on the Faculty of Emory University. She has also served on the faculty of A4M, IPS, BioTe, SSRP and ACAM. She has been featured on several podcasts including Super Human Radio Network, TRT Revolution, Relentless Vitality, Younique Medical, and Health Matters. Dr Turner spends her free time with her husband and family, studying cellular medicine and Christianity, managing her urban farm, and powerlifting.

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at shop.lisatamati.com

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

LT Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Clinic

Hyperbaric Oxygen treatmentAvailable now iN OUR CLINIC in Oakura, Taranaki

Hyperbaric oxygen treatment (HBOT) is the use of high pressure and near pure oxygen to help treat a variety of health conditions and diseases..

Each cell in the body needs oxygen to preserve, repair and enhance cellular function. Breathing high flow oxygen at pressures greater than sea level helps flood the body with oxygen, leading to a cascade of positive benefits from inflammation reduction to an increase in stem cell release to the creation of new capillaries and vessels. This has long term benefits for many ailments and for athletic performance and anti-aging.

Please reach out on the form below to learn more and to book an initial treatment

For a deeper dive into the science behind HBOT

check out the podcast episodes on our show "Pushing the Limits" on Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy with

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-jason-sonners/

Contact us at support@lisatamati.com to find out more and to book a session

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this week's episode of "Pushing the Limits I had the privilege of interview world renown cancer researcher Professor Thomas Seyfried the author of over 150 peer reviewed publications and the author of the book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" For 30 years Professor Seyfried has been in the trenches as a geneticist and biochemist studying cancer cells and working out the intricacies of how to stop them proliferating. He says there are two primary fuels that cancer cells use in their abhorrent metabolism, Glucose and Glutamine and that if we can cut the fuel supply of these two things to the cancer cells we have a powerful non toxic way of killing cancer cells. He and colleagues designed the Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer and in this interview we dive into his latest research and what you can do if you have cancer or want to lower your chances of getting cancer. If you enjoyed this episodes make sure to check out our Ebook/Interview series "What Your Oncologist isn't telling you" Ebook with 20 world leading experts on this approach and adjunct therapies. People can donate to Professor Seyfried's crucial work via this link the https://foundationformetaboliccancertherapies.com/ Dr Thomas Seyfried Bio

Thomas N. Seyfried received his Ph.D. in Genetics and Biochemistry from the University of Illinois, Urbana, in 1976. He did his undergraduate work at the University of New England, where he recently received the distinguished Alumni Achievement Award. He also holds a Master’s degree in Genetics from Illinois State University. Thomas Seyfried served with distinction in the United States Army’s First Cavalry Division during the Vietnam War and received numerous medals and commendations. He was a Postdoctoral Fellow in the Department of Neurology at the Yale University School of Medicine and then served on the faculty as an Assistant Professor in Neurology.

Other awards and honors have come from such diverse organizations as the American Oil Chemists Society, the National Institutes of Health, The American Society for Neurochemistry, the Ketogenic Diet Special Interest Group of the American Epilepsy Society, the Academy of Comprehensive and Complementary Medicine, and the American College of Nutrition.

Dr. Seyfried previously served as Chair, Scientific Advisory Committee for the National Tay-Sachs and Allied Diseases Association and presently serves on several editorial boards, including those for Nutrition & Metabolism, Neurochemical Research, the Journal of Lipid Research, and ASN Neuro, where he is a Senior Editor.

Dr. Seyfried has over 150 peer-reviewed publications and is the author of the book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer(Wiley, 1st ed., 2012).

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" Dr Sharik Peck introduces us to his invention the Rezzimax Pain Tuner Pro II

From Stroke, to TBI, autism to migraines, vagal nerve support. From TMJ to stress reduction.
This device is incredible.

Dr Peck designed this for his own problems, he broke his neck as a two year old and ongoing issues then at a teenager he suffered a major stroke and was left debilitated and unable to walk and spent years rehabilitating himself. He then went onto becoming a physio and started studying the use of vibrational technologies to support healing via the nerves. From the Vagal nerve to the nerves on our arms and legs, neck, jaw and skull.

I became aware of the Rezzimax after a neurotherapist friend Dr Harris recommended it for my mum. We were struggling with the after math of the stroke and paralysis, spasticity and fastination on the right side of her body that impairs her walking and balance and have now started to integrate this therapy into her daily regime.

If you would like to get a Rezzimax
International customers can get a $50USD discount here
NZ customers can get $75NZD off here

Dr Sharik Peck Bio

Sharik Peck, PT, MRC Founder/CEO. Sharik has advanced degrees in physical therapy and rehabilitation counseling.

  • Over 29 years helping people eliminate pain from their lives.
  • Sharik experienced several disabling accidents, including a broken neck and back, a stroke, a dislocated shoulder, and years of chronic pain.
  • Sharik’s wife suffered from chronic neck pain.
  • Out of these experiences and an intense desire to help many others in chronic pain, it drove him to figure out a natural solution for pain.
  • His research focused on resonance and its effect on the human nervous system. The Pain Tuner Pro is the result of over 14 years of research and development.- Awarded 3 US patents and 1 China patent

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" Lisa interviews Skin Expert Debbi Barber.

Never before on the show have I ever discussed skin care. It's not an area I have focused on but when I heard about Debbi Barber I had to interview her.

For me as a woman in her mid fifties who has thrashed the hell out of her body and run thousands of kilometers across deserts I have given my skin a hard hard time and recently I have started seeing the signs of some of that damage and age.

Now I am not the type to spend a fortune on looks, I work more on the inside than the outside but my few wrinkles and crepey skin was starting to get me down.

Enter Debbi Barber and Vitali Pro-Aging Skin Care and the amazing world of peptides.

Now you know if you follow this show I am deep in the weeds on peptides and love this field of medicine and when I came across a peptide called GHK-Cu I was sold it does so much for the body when taken systemically but then I found Debbi had it in her skin care range along with a number of other amazing ingredients and I had to try it and I am super excited about the results

Debbie Barber Bio:

Debbi is 67 years old and came out of retirement to produce this incredible range using peptides and carefully sourced ingredients because she needed it.

You can see the results for yourself - Debbi looks like she is in her early 40's

So check out the interview and you can get a great discount on her products at https://www.restoracell.com/pages/lisa-tamati

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilised by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" Lisa interviews the Co-founder of Trudiagnostic and previous founder of Tailor Made Compounding who make peptides. Ryan Smith is an expert in both peptides and the Epigenetic age testing.

In this episode we dive deep into both of these critical areas in the longevity science game. Learn what peptides do in the body, what they are and how they work and how you can use them to get your health on track. Then we dive into the world of Biological age clocks. Not your chronological age but how are you aging on the inside independent of how many trips around the sun you made.

Having the ability to track, measure and optimize our biological age is the most game changing and innovative approach to biohacking and optimization the world has ever seen.

It is also a sign the future of specialized health care is within reach.

TruDiagnostic is a revolutionary new tool that allows us to measure an unprecedented amount of data providing full access and control to one’s aging and health.

The biological age test developed by Tru Diagnostic is set to change how we measure health and ultimately, how we can improve it.

What you will learn in this episode:

  • What is Tru Diagnostic?

  • How is it going to forever change the integrated health space?

  • Where can this technology go, and how does the data it provides empower us?

In this episode, Ryan Smith from Tru Diagnostic talks about why this development is going to be so revolutionary.

Biological Aging is only the first step. Trudiagnostic has leveraged data generated in the largest private epigenetic database in the world to create tools that look at specific methylation to detect changing disease risk. They are already running clinical trials with products that claim to reduce aging, to see if they’re really as effective as they say they are.

They work with universities and top scientists from around the world to create new methods of epigenetic identification, new algorithms, and expanding what was once an epigenetic testing lab into a full multi-omic suite.

You can get your biological age testing done and leverage the insights to improve your future.

Reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com if you are interested in getting tested.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this week episode Lisa interviews world renown stem cell scientist Dr Christian Drapeau on the power of stem cells to heal the body and how we can mobilise many more of these stems cells from our bone marrow through the use of specific botanicals that have been clinically shown to do just that and how people suffering from a myriad of disease all have one thing in common and that is low circulating levels of stem cells.

We dive into the fascinating world of stem cell science and you will learn:

  • The types of stem cells there are

  • The various use cases for the different stem cells

  • The history of embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells.

  • The botanical discoveries he made that have shown to mobilise your own stem cells without needing invasive procedures that harvest your own stem cells from bone marrow or fat

*Lifestyle interventions shown to improve stem cell mobilisation and other habits that are detrimental to your stem cell supply.

  • we dive into many stories giving insight to the mechanisms of actions, case studies that are astounding from burns victims healing 50 year old scars to diabetics getting off insulin, to heart repair, brain repair and more.

  • we dive too into the clinical research he and others have done

Dr Christian is the author of "Cracking the Stem Cell Code" and is a tireless advocate for sharing this powerful and world changing information.

If after listening to this show you want to try STEMREGEN, Dr Christian's product you can go to and use code "Lisa" for a discount off your purchase and check back in Lisa's own anti-aging shop as she will soon have STEMREGEN in stock at www.shop.lisatamati.com [1]

Dr Drapeau says “Our health industry calls for a new paradigm… One where we exit the disease-based model of care and enter a model based on maintaining optimal health. To fully embrace this new approach, we must first understand the process by which our body maintains health of its own accord. Through years of research, we have discovered that adult stem cells are the building blocks of this process, and we have discovered plants capable of tapping into the healing potential of adult stem cells in order to support our highest potential for vibrant health.”

~Christian Drapeau, MSc

Stem Cell scientist

Botanical researcher

Author

Dr Christian Drapeau Bio

Christian Drapeau is a pioneer in Adult Stem Cell research and has attained global recognition for his nutraceutical applications in the fields of regenerative medicine and wellness.

Christian Drapeau holds a degree in Neurophysiology from the Montreal Neurological Institute, affiliated with McGill University in Montreal, Canada. He has been the Chief Science Officer for Cell Tech, Desert Lake Technologies, and Stemtech International. He is currently a member of the Scientific Advisory Board for Jeunesse Global and the President/CEO of Kalyagen where he continues his work of Research & Development, investigating novel stem cell enhancers.

The natural role of stem cells in the body as the foundation of the body’s daily repair and tissue regeneration system was first described in Christian’s book Cracking the Stem Cell Code (2010). A new edition was published in 2021 presenting all the data on plant-based stem cell enhancers, along with descriptions of cases showing remarkable recovery using natural stem cell enhancers to support Endogenous Stem Cell Mobilization (ESCM).

Working on the aquatic botanical Aphanizomenon flos-aquae (AFA), in the late 1990’s, and observing that consumption of AFA was leading to benefits touching many aspects of human health, Christian Drapeau proposed that bone marrow stem cells constitute the natural repair system of the body and that AFA’s mechanism of action consisted in supporting stem cell release from the bone marrow. Work done later confirmed these two hypotheses.

In essence, he has delineated how the bone marrow releases adult stem cells into the bloodstream to carry out the daily task of tissue repair within all bodily systems, and that the most important parameter in this natural ability to repair is the number of circulating stem cells. More stem cells in circulation has been linked to greater health, and conversely fewer circulating stem cells has been linked to disease formation. This finding has profound implications for every area of regenerative medicine, from disease treatment and prevention to anti-aging. He also discovered that the aquatic botanical AFA works in the body by stimulating stem cell mobilization (release) from the bone marrow. By increasing the number of circulating stem cells, more stem cells are available to participate to the process of tissue repair and renewal.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limit” Dr. Daniel Weber is internationally renowned as an informative and passionate speaker, traveling extensively lecturing on modern botanical medicine, psycho physical diseases, microbiome and its spectrum of diseases as well as cancer.

Dr Weber has nearly 50 years experience across a wide variety of fields including

  • Chinese Medicine
  • Integrated Oncology
  • Herbal Medicine
  • CEO of Panaxea™ International,
  • Autoimmune diseases
  • Botanical oncology isolates

Dr Weber is a deep thinker, a master, philosopher, pioneer, artist and this discussion dives deep into medical philosophies, history, oriental medicine and western medicine, paradigm shifts that humanity is experiencing and much more.

You will come away inspired and challenged by this interview and if you are someone dealing with cancer then Dr Weber is someone you want to have on your radar and learn from.

If you want to learn more about Dr Weber's work go to

https://drdanielweber.com/

Or to visit his botanicals company Panaxea go to

https://au.panaxea.com/

If you want help with your cancer please also check out Lisa's Ebook "What your oncologist isn't telling you"

Dr Daniel Webber Bio

Daniel is author of many books and published articles on integrative medicine. Daniel is deeply committed to research and evidence based medicine (EBM), and works to promote integrative clinics.

Daniel is Vice-Chair Oncology of the World Federation of Chinese Medicine Societies and editor of the Journal of Chinese Integrative Medicine. Daniel is a member of the Mederi Scientific Advisory Board, USA, and Advisor to the NIH and Global Consortium of Oncology and Chinese Medicine (Beijing). Daniel holds a Master Degree in Botanical Medicine and has been a Registered Somatic Psychotherapist since 1987. Daniel Weber is a Doctor of Health Science (DSc) from Charles Sturt University and maintains an international practice from his Clinic.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" Lisa interviews the CEO of DONOTAGE an inspiring longevity focused company that has a community of over 100,000 people all not wanting to age before they have to.

What you learn in this episode

  • What is the difference between biological age and calendar age and how can we test for this?
  • What are the most common practices you see the public doing that accelerates ageing?
  • How do sirtuins play a role in longevity?
  • What are some of the best longevity and anti-aging compounds we have access to.
  • What's happening at the cutting edge of longevity research

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode Jennifer Moore of Meno-me.co.nz speaks to us about peri menopause/menopause and hormone health. Continuing on our series on "Pushing the Limits" around hormones, DUTCH Testing, Hormone Replacement Therapy and more and today we discuss alternative options for those not wanting to do HRT but who want to get the benefits supplements that can support you through this critical time of life. If you are struggling with hormone issues then this is the episode for you. If you want to prepare for what menopause might bring then this is also for you What you will learn: * Natural menopause supplements and support * How to keep your hair looking great as your hormones change * What EstroG-100™, is - a patented formulation of three herbal extracts that have been used for hundreds of years. It has been the subject of three scientific studies on menopause. It naturally supports the body's natural response to hormonal changes including normal body temperature, mood, healthy joints, energy levels, and restful sleep. * The ingredient Cynanchum are climbing vines, Phlomis are sage-like herbs and Angelica is used as a food, herbal remedy and flavour. These herbs have been used for hundreds of years as culinary herbs in Korea and have a long history of use Phlomis umbrosa is wild harvested, while Cynanchum wilfordii and Angelica gigas nakai are cultivated. * How to support your lifestyle through peri menopause and menopause * How manage your moods and the symptoms of menopause like those nasty night sweats, brain fog, irritability (dare I say anger) and more

Be sure to check out Jennifer's own podcast "Women on Fire" where Lisa is also to guest as well as checking out what Jennifer and the team at Meno-me do at www.meno-me.co.nz Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode LIsa interviews Dr Greg Brown a medical doctor and hyperbaric specialist and medical director of Wellington Hyperbarics. Dr Greg shares his insights on this incredible therapy following on our series on hyperbaric oxygen therapy with Dr Jason Sonners and Dr Scott Sherr previously. Lisa has also now opened her own hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic In Oakura, New Plymouth and you contact support@lisatamati.com to get on a discovery call to see if this is appropriate for you. Here are some of the benefits of Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy and discussion points in this interview: Benefits * Improves brain tissue oxygenation * Stimulates brain tissue regeneration * Regrows nerve fibres * Forms new blood vessels and improves blood flow stimulating idle brain cells to function ' * Speeds recovery and rehabilitation time * Stimulates tissue repair * Increases levels of neutrophils and nitric oxide * Reduces inflammation in the brain and body * Stimulates up-regulation of growth hormones * Reduces brain damage from swelling * Improves cognition, thinking and brain performance * Builds new collagen, skin and tissues * Reduces pain and swelling * Regrows health tissue, skin and bones, * Heals ulcers, wounds and injuries * Kills bacteria and infections making antibiotics more effective * Stimulates angiogenesis for axonal regeneration * Enhances mitochondrial function * Promotes stem cell reproduction by up to 800% * Increases cerebral blood flow * Decreases Cerebral edema * Reactivates quiescent neurons * Safe, comfortable, easy and pain free

HBOT is a non invasive treatment that can address a variety of medical conditions either as a primary or complementary therapy. Dr. Greg Brown Dr Greg Brown has been a Medical Doctor for nearly two decades. He originally hails from the UK but is now a proud New Zealander. He has a background in general practice, military medicine, travel medicine, and nutritional and environmental medicine. Greg is the Medical Director of Wellington Hyperbarics, an expanding community-based network of clinics providing medically-supervised hyperbaric oxygen therapy for a variety of conditions, and also continues to work in general practice. He is the father of three teenagers and the husband of one very patient wife. He lives in the Wellington region with his family, an evil ginger cat, and a few productive chickens. He is a keen musician, enjoys lifting weights, and has become a Wellington coffee snob.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I have the indomitable Nathalie Niddam, holistic nutritionist and expert on peptides and bioregulators (what are those I hear you say tune in to find out) - Truly excited about this anti-aging field of medicine and the power it holds for us to turn back back the clock. We dive in to the various classes of peptides * The difference between peptides and protein and bioregulators * The effects of these on the body and how the peptides work differently than bioregulators. * How to lose weight using peptides * How to boost mitochondrial biogenesis and repair mitochondrial * How to support the immune system with peptides * How to heal the gut with peptides * The difficulties we face in accessing. * Where you can get more expert advice and more. * Talk about stem cells and how we can harness those and the supplements that can help to boost stem cells. * Health coaching and the new role we have in the health sector.

You can check Nathalie out at https://www.natniddam.com/ and join her BSP community on Mighty networks and listen to her podcast The "Biohacking Superhuman Performance Podcast" Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode we go down the rabbit hole of molecular hydrogen water with Alex Tarnava founder of Drinkhrw HYDROGEN WATER BENEFITS SIMPLIFIED Molecular hydrogen tablets are one of the most promising preventative aging supplements on the market. With over 1500 publications on potential hydrogen water benefits in 170 disease models throughout every organ, H2 tablets have been shown to indirectly mitigate the damages of the Big 3—those nasty three issues that lead to virtually all diseases and are the driving forces in why we get older and die: Imbalances of our oxidative stress, inflammation, and increased insulin resistance. PROTECT YOUR BODY RECOVER RAPIDLY OVERALL ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE H2 enhances the healing mechanisms of every single joint, muscle, tendon, and ligament in your body to help protect against overuse-related injuries, such as stress fractures, sprains, strains and tears. Regulating redox, which is our body's natural balance between beneficial oxidative species and our own production of antioxidants, and the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines back into balance by supplementation with H2 is like adjusting your car's timing to enhance horsepower and gas mileage. It may not fix what is already broken, but it goes a long way to improving the remaining performance. A daily Molecular Hydrogen regimen promotes antioxidant/oxidative balance via activation of the Nrf2 pathway. It ONLY works when this system is not in harmony, making it the most reliable way to tackle oxidative stress. What the Drinkhrw tablets can help with * Metabolic Health * Athletic Performance and Recovery * Injury and Acute Event Recovery

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" we dive again into the exciting world of photobiomodulation, otherwise known as Red Light Therapy with the wonderful Dr Zulia Frost of Recharge Health. Dr Frost is a medical doctor who experienced a terrible accident and was left facing a life in a wheelchair and debilitating pain. Pain medications couldn't touch the sides of the suffering she was experiencing so she turned to Red Light Therapy and other modalities to heal herself. She shares her journey back to health and shares her deep knowledge on this exciting field of research and inparticular her "FLEXBEAM" Red light device - a revolution in delivering Red Light to the body. What you will learn in this episode: * How the different frequencies of light affect the body in different ways * The benefits of Red Light therapy from lowering inflammation, to collagen production, to immune system modulation, to bone/cartilage formation support, to gut healing, to energy production, to mitochondrial repair, to improved sleep. * You will learn about circadian rhythms and how light plays a pivotal role.

If after listening to Dr Zulia you want to try the FLEXBEAM for yourself and get a whopping discount off the normal retail price of $688 USD to $389 USD then go to Recharge Health and if you hurry and do it in the next 7 days from release of the episode you will save another $40 off making the FLEXBEAM just $349USD. I am so enamored with this device that I am now incorporating it into my healing modalities in my hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic in Taranaki. I personally use it every day and have had major benefits, faster recovery,from training, injury healing, not to mention better sleep and I have used in on Mum after her GI bleed recently to help heal her tum. Also check out the previous episodes I did on photobiomodulation with Dr Lew Lim if you would like more on Red Light Therapy Or watch my demonstration video on my youtube channel (don't forget to subscribe while you are there Bio for Dr Zulia Frost Dr. Zulia Frost MD: Co-Founder and Head of Clinical

The Healer: Western Medical Doctor integrating Eastern Philosophy

  • Co-Founder of Recharge Health Ltd driving innovative health technologies
  • Medical Doctor & Clinical Director of Recharge Health: Creators of FLEXBEAM
  • Trained in BOTH Western Medical Science and Eastern Philosophy
  • Renowned Worldwide for Expertise with Integrating Light and Energy Therapy

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

This week I have my very good friend and world renown cellular health expert, longevity specialist and orthopedic surgeon Dr Elizabeth Yurth (MD, ABPMR, ABAARM, FAARM, FAARFM, FSSRP) of the Boulder Longevity Institute to guest. Locked away in a vault somewhere deep inside the Boulder Longevity Institute lies the secret everyone wishes they could get their hands on – the supplement routine of Dr. Elizabeth Yurth. As Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of BLI, clients and non-clients alike long to know what perfect blend of supplementation Dr. Yurth uses. Someone in this position must have it down pat! Well, the disappointing answer is: One size does not fit all. What suits the current lifestyle, biology, and needs of Dr. Yurth may be a far cry from the needs of other individuals. We are all unique, and alas, so are our supplement requirements. However Dr. Yurth does offer an overview of supplements that are beneficial to virtually everyone. The areas of cell membrane, gut, and mitochondrial health are key focus points when it comes to more generalised selection of appropriate supplements. For those who are looking to reach a solid baseline that promotes health and longevity, these daily supplements could be the answer. As always, we remind that every individual is different, and you should consult with a physician before starting any new health routines. Dr. Elizabeth Yurth Bio Elizabeth Yurth, MD is Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of Boulder Longevity Institute, where she has been providing Tomorrow's Medicine Today to her clients since 2006. Dr. Yurth obtained her Medical Degree from the University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine, completed her residency at the University of California – Irvine, and her Fellowship in Sports and Spine Medicine from Stanford-affiliated Sports Orthopedics and Rehabilitation (SOAR) in Palo Alto, CA. Along with her 30 years as a practicing orthopedist specializing in sports and spine medicine, Dr. Yurth has made it her mission to learn and share the latest scientific research on how to truly heal the body at the cellular level. She is Fellowship trained in Anti-Aging, Regenerative, and Cellular Medicine and has completed +500 hours of CME training focused on Longevity, Nutrition, Epigenetics, Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy, Regenerative Peptide Treatments, and Regenerative Orthopedic Procedures. You can reach out to Dr Yurth and her team at www.boulderlongevity.com We would love you to also check out our curated range of longevity supplements in our online store. Lisa went out into the world to find the very best available supplements for her own family and now has bought this curated collection to her audience. Many of these supplement choices were guided by the expertise of Dr Yurth and Lisa is proud of the unique collection of quality supplements on offer. Check out Lisa's shop here: Shop Supplements Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this weeks episode Lisa interviews Dr Emily Werner nutritionist to the Philadelphia NBA Basketball team and consultant for Timeline Nutrition who produced Mitopure which contains a super excited molecule that you need to know about if you are into anti-aging One of the hallmarks of aging and at the base of much disease is the dysfunction of mitochondria, the little powerhouses in our cells that literally produce the energy we need to live. As we age or after stresses like viruses, too much exercise, toxins etc we get more dysfunctioning mitochondria and this leads to fatigue, and the breaking down of our health on a cellular level that affects everything we do. Urolithin A (UA) is a little-known nutrient that is starting to garner a lot of well-deserved attention. Numerous studies are being released demonstrating its powerful effect on muscle health and longevity. UA's benefit to health is due to its ability to stimulate mitophagy, the process by which older, dysfunctional mitochondria get recycled into more efficient, healthier mitochondria.

Urolithin A is not found directly in the food we eat. It is a postbiotic, meaning that the bacteria in our gut convert plant compounds (called polyphenols) into UA. Regularly eating foods high in these specific polyphenols supplies your microbiome with the precursors it needs to generate UA.

In this interview you will learn

  • What is Urolithin A
  • How is produced naturally in the body
  • What super foods contain this molecule
  • Why only 30% of people can actually make this postbiotic in their microbiomes
  • What dosage is required to effect mitophagy
  • What mitophagy is and why is it important
  • The role of mitochondrial health in longevity
  • The clinical research going into the effects of this molecule - human and animal trials

If you want to get your hands on this amazing supplement use this code to get a 5% discount https://www.timelinenutrition.com/?rfsn=6986640.1a46c4 use cod LISA at checkout For those in the NZ or outside the states you will need to have a US address to have it sent out. You can get an address super easily by signing up at Myus.com. Lisa uses this method to get many items that are only available in the US sent over so do check it out. Dr Emily Werner

Dr. Werner has over seven years of experience working with athletes in different capacities including individual consultation, research, academia, and the team sport setting. Her expertise is in the assessment of sport nutrition knowledge and behavior, as well as the application of sport nutrition for health and performance.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Dr Stephanie Venn-Watson and. husband physician Dr Eric Venn-Watson are one hell of a dynamic duo out to save the planet one person at a time and they started out by helping dolphins live longer. What started as a surprising discovery to protect dolphins' health has become a growing movement to restore our body's C15:0 levels, support our long-term health, and perhaps even slow aging. The groundbreaking discoveries around C15:0's healthy aging benefits have been featured as a TEDx talk, a Fast Company World Changing Idea, and now––a shout out in The New York Times Science section! Amazing! Wait - what is C15:0? Well in this episode we dive into just that very topic. C15:0 (aka pentadecanoic acid) is a healthy, odd-chain saturated fatty acid naturally found in whole fat dairy, as well as some fish and plants. C15:0 is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered since omega-3, which was over 90 years ago. Because pure C15:0 has been shown to have 3x the cellular benefits of the highest performing omega-3, C15:0 is emerging as the essential, essential fatty acid. Numerous peer-reviewed studies have shown that people with higher C15:0 levels have better metabolic, heart, immune and liver health. Unfortunately, our C15:0 levels naturally decline as we age. But I thought fats were bad? Society spent a generation avoiding fat. But what does the science say? Join us in. this episode to find out why your cells will age slower with Fatty15. If after listening you are keen to get your hands on some you can grab it through this link fatty15.pxf.io/ORV41W More facts on Fatty15 Fatty15 is a science-backed, award-winning C15:0 supplement that supports your long-term health & wellness.* Fatty15 delivers whole body and mind health at the cellular level C15:0 is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered since the omegas—over 90 years ago. Fatty15 contains a pure, patented, award-winning, C15:0 powder called FA15™. Fatty15 has 3X more cellular benefits than the purest, highest performing omega-3 (EPA). More cellular benefits than omega-3. Fatty15 and EPA share 10 common clinically relevant benefits. However, fatty15 has an additional 26 benefits EPA doesn't. More cell types repaired. Fatty15 repairs 83% of the 12 cell types tested. EPA only repairs 33%. Steph's Bio

Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson is the CEO of Seraphina Therapeutics. A seasoned veterinary epidemiologist and public health scientist, Stephanie previously served at the World Health Organization and U.S. Navy. With a life-long mission of helping people (and our fellow animals) age better, Stephanie's award-winning approach to improving human and animal health has been featured on NPR, BBC, CBS, and National Geographic. In her time as CEO, Seraphina Therapeutics has been recognized for its extensive research and education on pentadecanoic acid (C15:0).

Stephanie received her B.S. in Animal Physiology and Neuroscience from UC San Diego, D.V.M. from Tufts University, M.P.H. from Emory University, and was a National Research Council Associate with the Armed Forces Medical Intelligence Center. She is an Albert Schweitzer Fellow for Life.

Eric's Bio

Eric brings significant experience in creating and growing early stage biotechnology companies. Prior to Epitracker, Eric founded a healthcare analytics company and a medical device company, was CMO of a pharmaceutical startup, SVP of a digital health company and worked as a business consultant. Eric is also a US Navy Veteran, having served 21 years as a military physician, with multiple leadership roles, as well as combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. He serves in advisory roles for multiple startup companies, is a regular lecturer at the Rady School of Management, and supports entrepreneurship programs for military veterans in San Diego. He was awarded the 'Best Entrepreneur' in the Start up Company Category at the 2017 Veteran and Military Conference and Awards. Eric attended the military medical school at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, received his general surgery and orthopedic surgery training at the Naval Medical Center San Diego, and completed his MBA at the UCSD, Rady School of Management.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

Chris Mirabile is a man on a mission. A man who has faced so much adversity in his life already. Diagnosed at age 16 with a brain tumour, which spoiler alert he survived to tell the tale about, but also an entrepreneur and powerful spirit who experienced some extreme highs and lows, from being a high flying entrepreneur in the social media space with Hotlist to losing everything to rebuilding life and starting NOVOSLabs a biotech platform aimed at helping people stay younger longer. He works with world leading scientists like Dr. George Church, PhD — Harvard Medical School & MIT Professor and Dr. Pamela Maher — University of British Columbia to formulate products and to educate on longevity science. He has also personally been able to slow and even reverse his own age. By 13.6 years according to the "biological aging clocks" they use. You can follow his blog and the results he publishes on his N of 1 experiments at https://slowmyage.com/ Novos Labs mission to help people live healthier for longer and in this episode Chris shares the research on a number of key longevity compounds like: * Ca-AKG * Fisetin, * Rhodiola * Magnesium and more.

If you want to check out what they do at Novos Labs click the link here: https://novoslabs.com/?ref=6717 Do you want to know how to slow & even reverse aging, then this episode is for you! Health Optimisation and Life Coaching with Lisa Tamati

Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges.

Topics Lisa can help with:

Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach.

She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clincian with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking.

She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more.

Testing Options

  • Comprehensive Thyroid testing
  • DUTCH Hormone testing
  • Adrenal Testing
  • Organic Acid Testing
  • Microbiome Testing
  • Cell Blueprint Testing
  • Epigenetics Testing
  • DNA testing
  • Basic Blood Test analysis

She can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine and can advocate for you. She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whether you are facing challenges from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out.:

Consult with Lisa

Join our Patron program and support the show

Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.

Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two

You can join by going to Lisa's Patron Community

Lisa’s Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements

Lisa has spent years curating a very specialised range of exclusive longevity, health optimising supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.

This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her mum but couldn't get in NZ. Check out the range at her LongLifeLabs shop

Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel

with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel.

Youtube

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: Lisa's Books

Our NMN Bio Flagship Longevity Range

A range by molecular biologist Dr Elena Seranova

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: NMNBIO

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Listen to the episodes with Dr Seranova on the show:

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova/

https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-elena-seranova-part-3/

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Listen to the episode with Dr MInkoff here:

Ketone Products by HVMN

The world's best exogenous Ketone IQ

Listen to the episode with Dr Latt Mansor

Lisa's ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For Lisa's gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to Jewellery

For Vielight Device

Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to

www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa and team

View Details

In this episode the tables are turned on me. My friend and mentor Adam Harris of www.frankandfearless.com interviews me about the entrepreneurs journey and gathers a deep insight into the typical struggles, trials and tribulations of the day to day operations of the small business owner trying to have a massive impact on the world. You will relate to this one and gain perhaps many insights for your own career path be it as your own business team leader/director or as part of a business team. Values, missions, world impact goals, team building, taking on risk, stress and resilience these are just a few of the topics we cover in this interview. We talk about the importance of having a team and having the right bums on the right seats. Why the visionary in the business needs an integrator - a robin to their batman so to speak. If you want to do a deep dive into your own career path journey then listening to the struggles and triumphs of someone in the midst of it can be a helpful reflecting mirror for you and learning some of the strategies we can use to grow and succeed in any challenge we face. About Adam Harris Adam is the managing director, board and leadership team as well as aspiring leader who want to climb the corporate ladder.

He help them his team achieve greater results, their businesses and themselves.

How? By taking them from where they are to where they want to get to.

Adam do that not by answering their questions, but by questioning their questions. By being Frank and Fearless.

He ask tough questions and encourage clients to say what they really think. Create space to enable them to stop, pause and reflect. Out of that space comes clarity and real opportunities for growth. He also help clients do incredible things and understand that good and bad things happen.

Life goes on regardless.

For him, what matters is the perspective and how you react to the shit that happens to you.

What you get out of life depends on how you navigate your way through it.

If you want to know more about my Frank and Fearless journey, click here.

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Lisa's full range of anti-aging, longevity and health optimisation supplements curated by Lisa herself working with some of the best supplement producers in the world. https://shop.lisatamati.com/ NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone-IQ

Get your fuel from ketones.

Ketones are nature's superfuel, proven to support energy, focus, endurance, and more. Developed alongside the U.S. military and top universities, Ketone-IQ™ delivers all those benefits in one drink. No caffeine, no sugar—just clean, on-demand energy for superior physical and cognitive performance.

You can read about it here and https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/ketone-iq%E2%84%A2?_pos=2&_sid=727714231&_ss=r My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" I have Clinical Educator from Precision Analytical Dr Kelly Ruef to guest. * Over the past few weeks we have diving deep into hormones from various aspects and this week it's all about * Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy- the pros and cons * Cortisol production and how it affects everything from cognitive function to mood, to energy and beyond * Methylation and detox pathways - the why and how of getting hormones out of our bodies after they have done their job * How to support optimal hormone balance * Why men need to focus on more than just testosterone and what can happen if you don't have the bigger picture in mind. * The intricacies of dialing your hormones in and how testing helps. * How other factors play a role in hormonal balance - from genetics to environmental toxins to nutrition status

Hormones do just so much in our body, when they are off life can be miserable, get them right and it can slow aging and many age related diseases so it's worth investing the time to understand this admittedly complicated field if you are wanting to optimise your lifespan, performance and health. If you enjoy this content please share it with friends and we would really appreciate a rating and review. Also drop us a line with any comments or questions support@lisatamati.com, we will do our best to answer. If after this you are wanting to do a DUTCH test to find out what your own hormones and cortisol pattern looks like and even organic acid markers (11 of which are included now in the DUTCH test) reach out to Lisa and she can get you sorted support@lisatamati.com xxx Lisa and team About Dr Kelly Ruef

Dr. Ruef is a licensed naturopathic doctor who completed her medical education at the National University of Natural Medicine in Portland, Oregon. She also completed a residency at Pearl Natural Health in downtown Portland, where she specialized in inflammatory bowel diseases and women’s health. For undergraduate education, Dr. Ruef received a Bachelor of Science degree in biochemistry and cell biology with a minor in cognitive neuroscience from the University of California, San Diego. Dr. Ruef’s strategy is to give thorough, clear explanations to her patients, and she always encourages questions to help lead her patients to better health.

Learn More about Dr Kelly Ruef and follow this website

You can find her on Instagram under @drkellyruef

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Lisa's full range of anti-aging, longevity and health optimisation supplements curated by Lisa herself working with some of the best supplement producers in the world. https://shop.lisatamati.com/ NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone-IQ

Get your fuel from ketones.

Ketones are nature's superfuel, proven to support energy, focus, endurance, and more. Developed alongside the U.S. military and top universities, Ketone-IQ™ delivers all those benefits in one drink. No caffeine, no sugar—just clean, on-demand energy for superior physical and cognitive performance.

You can read about it here and https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/ketone-iq%E2%84%A2?_pos=2&_sid=727714231&_ss=r My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this podcast molecular Biologist Dr Elena Seranova joins us to talk through some of the exciting anti-aging and longevity compounds on the market currently, the research behind them and what they do in the body. We consider * what you should think about when deciding to take a supplement * what each compound does, it's mechanism of action * what aging hallmarks each compounds combats. * what senescent cells are and what senolytics do, the importance of methylation * we cover Quercetin, Trimethylglycine, Nicotinamide Mononucleotide and Berberine

Tune in to get the latest information on this exciting compounds and where the research is headed next. About Dr. Elena Dr. Elena Seranova is a scientist, serial entrepreneur, and business mentor. She has now founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses. She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. Dr. Elena then started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience.

Dr. Elena continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham.

Dr. Elena’s expertise in these fields led her to co-found the biotech start-up SkyLab Bio. She has written several peer-reviewed articles on autophagy.

Her latest business is NMN Bio. Her own experiences with supplements have inspired her to expand the market to include cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, the UK, and Europe.

Dr. Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.

To learn more about Dr. Elena and her work, visit NMN Bio.

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Lisa's full range of anti-aging, longevity and health optimisation supplements curated by Lisa herself working with some of the best supplement producers in the world. https://shop.lisatamati.com/ NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone-IQ

Get your fuel from ketones.

Ketones are nature's superfuel, proven to support energy, focus, endurance, and more. Developed alongside the U.S. military and top universities, Ketone-IQ™ delivers all those benefits in one drink. No caffeine, no sugar—just clean, on-demand energy for superior physical and cognitive performance.

You can read about it here and https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/ketone-iq%E2%84%A2?_pos=2&_sid=727714231&_ss=r My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Metabolic Health and optimal performance, support for brain injuries or those suffering from neurodegeneration. From insulin resistance to weightloss to optimising your speed and power output, we cover it all in this enlightening episode with Dr Latt Mansor. What you will learn in this episode: * What are exogenous ketones and how do they differ from endogenous ketone * What are the benefits metabolically for using exogenous ketones * What clinical research is currently being conducted with exogenous ketones and what are the results from studies so far * Can exogenous ketone esters improve your athletic performance * Do you need to be on a keto diet to experience benefits with exogenous ketone esters. * Why are DARPA and the Department of Defence so interested in exogenous ketone esters * How athletes and high powered executives are using this to augment their physical and mental performance * What the future might hold for treating various illnesses with exogenous ketone esters.

I have been fascinated with the keto diet, ketones salts and ketone esters for a number of years and have watched with interest this field evolve. I am super excited to announce I have now teamed up with H.V.M.N producers of theKetone-IQ™ to bring this incredible product to consumers downunder. Having used it on myself and with my mum in her recovery I can personally attest to the extraordinary results both from an athletic performance and cognitive focus perspective as well as from a brain rehabilitation, metabolic health perspective and I am excited for the future with this, Grab your Ketone-IQ™ here Wishing you a very merry and healthy xmas and new year. Lisa About Dr Latt Mansor Dr. Latt Mansor holds a PhD in Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics from the University of Oxford, where his research focused on the metabolism of the type 2 diabetic heart in hypoxia. He also holds an M.A. (Columbia University) and B.Sc. (Hons) (University of Nottingham) in Biotechnology. He is a world expert in physiology and metabolism, and consults with elite sport, military, clinical and research organizations. Although his education was primarily in health sciences, Latt always believed that collaborative efforts between science and business have more potential to create an impact in improving people’s lives than each on its own. Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Lisa Walker is the head researcher and lead formulator behind the Eve Wellness brand of hormone testing kits and supplements. She has spent years studying the ins and outs of hormone balance and developing ways to test our hormones so we can get back to balance. Hormones play a huge role in every one of our lives and we are not just talking about cycling women or those ladies dealing with the roller coaster that can be menopause but also fertility issues or syndromes and ailments that afflict so many from endometriosis to weight gain, from low energy to mental health issus to skin, hair and ibido issues to name a few. And it's not just about women, men need to optimise their hormones as well. In this episode we discuss * The types of hormones we have * The way our bodies detox hormones and what we can do to support that * The gut, hormone connection, * Stress hormones and their relation to sex hormones, * Why you should test not guess and do it regularly so you can optimise your journey as you go through life. * What the tests can teach us and what we can do about it. After all it's about the action steps we can take to improve our quality of life whether that be foundational health habit changes or supplements through to hormone replacement and more.

If you want to get yourself tested you can grab your Eve Wellness test kit here or reach out to Lisa and her team so they can help you in optimising your hormones Eve Test Consult with Lisa Get your Eve Wellness Supplements here: Eve You can find out more about Eve Wellness https://evewellness.com/ You can follow them on instagram at: @evewellnessco About Lisa Lisa entered the well-being space in 2008 - when the industry's exercise and nutrition advice was built on the assumption that women were just smaller versions of men. She watched countless women and men adopt dietary, lifestyle and training regimes that hindered their hormonal well-being and overall health and felt compelled to change this. Lisa is a qualified holistic nutritionist and has over 6 years of working one on one with clients, specialising in areas such as autoimmunity, microbiome health, hormones, epigenetics and more. Lisa is an absolute hormone expert, having looked at thousands of Eve Hormone Test results, and she uses the insights she gleans from this data to inform her role as Eve's Product Formulator & Lead Researcher. Lisa is passionate about elevating others through science, education, and the development of specialised product formulations that solve real problems and make a noticeable difference in people's lives. Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Dr Jones is a Naturopathic Doctor and hormone specialist from Portland. She has completed a two-year residency in advanced women's health, gynaecology and hormones, and has also completed her Masters of Public Health at the Grand Canyon University. Dr Jones has been the medical director of two large integrative medical clinics in Portland and is was the medical director of Precision Analytical, a laboratory that offers the DUTCH Profile for over a decade and is now the head of Medical Education for Rupa Health. She writes for multiple health websites and is featured in a range of health podcasts.

Our hormones - we love them, need them but sometimes they can wreak havoc with us. Keeping our hormones balanced presents problems for both men and women and to various degrees depending on our time of life. In this very nuanced and deep conversation with a world leading expert on hormonal health we learn how our hormones affect all our systems from our brain health to bone health to our cardiovascular system to our Hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal axis to our fat stores, digestive health and thyroid function.

Get your hormones right and you get life back. For those struggling with everything from:

  • Estrogen dominance
  • Estrogen toxicity
  • Low or high testosterones
  • PCOS
  • Fibroids
  • Endometriosis
  • The aftermath of hysterectomies
  • Menopausal symptoms
  • Difficult menstrual cycles

All will benefit from this discussion:

Hormones have the power to make us feel great, enable us to reproduce, can empower us to feel strong, bold, assertive or weak, teary and depressed, cause us to gain weight and so much more so understanding the basics about hormones can really help you stay optimised.

In this episode we discuss:

  • The DUTCH (Dried Urine Test of Complete Hormones)
  • Evaluating hormone metabolites
  • Estrogen clearance and the different pathways it can take through the body
  • Understanding and favorably augmenting testosterone metabolism (men and women)
  • Thyroid and it's connection to hormones
  • Identifying and treating hormonal imbalance root causes
  • The difference between DHEA-S and DHEA.

If you are struggling with your hormonal health or are interested in having a DUTCH test done to see where you hormones are at, where your cortisol is at and some of your organic acids (showing nutrient status) then reach out to Lisa at support@lisatamati.com - Lisa can help you get back on track with your hormones. Don't suffer in silence.

About Dr Carrie Jones

Dr Carrie Jones is a Naturopathic Physician who is board certified in Naturopathic Endocrinology (FABNE) with a Master's in Public Health (MPH) having over 17 years in the field of functional and integrative medicine. As former Adjunct Faculty for the National University of Natural Medicine (NUNM), I have taught courses in both Gynecology and Advanced Endocrinology. She was the Medical Director for two large integrative clinics in Portland, Oregon and the Medical Director for Precision Analytical Inc, creators of the DUTCH Test for almost 10 years. A Clinical Expert for the Lifestyle Matrix Resource Center (LMRC) serving the SOS Stress Recovery Program. Currently, she is the Head of Medical Education at Rupa Health.

She is also a functional medicine health and hormone doctor who believes in the importance of both men and women understanding their body in a simplified manner so they can feel more empowered to take control of their health especially when they are told everything is "normal" but they don't feel "normal."

Follow Dr Jones on her website

http://www.drcarriejones.com/

On instagram: @dr.carriejones

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

This week on Pushing the Limits Lisa interview Biotechnologist and longevity specialist, pharmacist, entrepreneur and author Greg Macpherson on Harnessing the 9 hallmarks of aging. What you will learn in this episode: * How to slow down the aging process * What diet, lifestyle and supplement interventions we can undertake to extend our lifespan, * Where the longevity science is at and what we can expect in the next decade and why it's not inconceivable for us to live in healthy state way beyond 120 years.

You will also about some of the pathways that affect aging and how we can slow the aging clock. We highly recommend you read Gregs amazing book "Harnessing the nine hallmarks of aging" and check out his product range in our shop at www.lisatamati.com Greg Macpherson Bio Greg is the founder of SRW Labs (Science, Research, Wellness Laboratories) that develops cutting edge anti-aging and longevity formulations. Greg Macpherson is a biotechnologist, cellular health expert, entrepreneur and author of, “Harnessing the Nine Hallmarks of Aging: to live your healthiest life.” For more than 30 years he has worked at the intersection of technology and the health fields and recently, in the last decade working in the biotechnology sector, specifically focusing on the aging process at the cellular level.

This work led him to discover ways to harness the nine identified, scientific hallmarks of aging, which is the premise of this book which helps the reader translate the complex science associated with cellular aging creating a how-to-handbook that addresses the natural aging process, providing simple strategies to slow the aging process and build a functional longevity plan.

​Beyond theory and concept, Macpherson has used his entrepreneurial spirit to further develop solutions to this new paradigm of aging, described in his book, by founding SRW Laboratories (www.srw.co).

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this weeks episode Pele Aumua and Scott Haumaha join me. Two men with a vision and a passion to improve health and wellbeing in our world. Their mission is to educate and connect people with holistic wellbeing pathways that support their personal journey to pursue better and in this conversation we talk about not only their deep framework and how they help people achieve wellbeing but also their personal paths that led them to this work. We discuss the life of the entrepreneur and the importance of striving amongst the chaos to find time and energy to put into yourself what the world and work is taking out. Key takeaways we think you will enjoy from this interview: 1. Understanding the fundamentals of what a wellbeing framework for you could include, from connection to mindset to functional sides. 2. Thoughts and discussions around taking the leap from your standard 9 to 5pm to living your entrepreneurial dreams and what it takes. 3. Mental Health first aid - how we can care for each other in trying and difficult times and your opportunity to perhaps get trained in this area. 4. Understanding that physical health is not the only pillar of a truly healthy individual, that the mind and spirit also count. 5. The importance of company's and corporation prioritising their employees wellbeing and how this can be implemented and going beyond just ticking boxes. Pele's Bio Pele Aumua is a specialist in holistic health and culture building. He applies innovative approaches that challenges deficit thinking and focuses on potential instead. Pele's background in functional strength and conditioning, gym ownership, and lifestyle coaching have culminated his skillset in designing and delivering health initiatives. He excels at empowering communities to become self-sufficient. Scott's Bio Scott Haumaha works with people, families and organisations as a financial adviser and Chartered Accountant. Personal finance and financial wellbeing is his specialty. He is passionate about wellbeing and has personally experienced the benefits it has to offer both in his own life and in the lives of others. Wellbeing is an area he continues to study, teach, practice and promote. For more information visit the team at https://www.be360.co.nz/ and follow them @be360 on instagram and facebook Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Dr Nasha Winters started her young adult life with a terminal diagnosis, at age 19 she was given just weeks to live and was in multi organ failure with advanced cancer.But Dr Nasha didn't die. She fasted for 25 days (forced to as she was unable to eat) and that was an inadvertent blessing in disguise that sent her a thirty year journey of discovery. As the author of "The Metabolic Approach to Cancer" Dr Winters is a world renown expert in this field. Her extensive knowledge, clinical experience and deep research as well as her own very personal journey makes her uniquely qualified to share on this topic. Here are just a couple of the takeaways from this interview: 1. What is the metabolic approach to cancer 2. Why diet is a key factor 3. Why the intangible, mental and emotional sides to the journey are just as crucial 4. How to both prevent cancer, how to get well if you have cancer and how to thrive after cancer. You can follow Dr Winters at https://www.drnasha.com/ Get her free Five step guide for those newly diagnosed https://www.drnasha.com/free-guide/ Learn about Dr Winters educational programs for doctors and advocates athttps://www.drnasha.com/matcbook/ About Dr Nasha Winters Dr. Nasha Winters is a global healthcare authority and best-selling author in integrative cancer care and research consulting with physicians around the world. She has educated hundreds of professionals in the clinical use of mistletoe and has created robust educational programs for both healthcare institutions and the public on incorporating vetted integrative therapies in cancer care to enhance outcomes. Dr. Winters is currently focused on opening a comprehensive metabolic oncology hospital and research institute in the US where the best that standard of care has to offer and the most advanced integrative therapies will be offered. This facility will be in a residential setting on a gorgeous campus against a backdrop of regenerative farming, EMF mitigation and retreat, as well as state of the art medical technology and data collection and evaluation to improve patient outcomes Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Hormones, microbiome, thyroid, dealing with the traditional medical world, optimising nutrition and your exercise regimes. These are just some of the topics in this weeks amazing episode with Jess Wilson.

Jess is a ex professional athlete, mum of two super woman. A lady on a mission who after having two very ill young children and fighting to get them the best care decided that it was up to her alone to research and find answers for her kids and her own health concerns. This journey lead her down an unimaginable path of discovery and now Jess, a certified nutritionist, hormone and microbiome specialists lives to teach and coach and help people navigate their way back to full health. Three things we think you will love in the podcast: 1. Understanding the microbiome and it's influence on your health. 2. Why you shouldn't outsource your medical care to any one person or to anyone system 3. How your hormones and thyroid effect your health 4. How to deal with the "Super Woman" complex - having to be all things to all people and how this denies our femininity and how to get to have the best of both worlds. You can find out all about Jess and her programmes at www.jesswilson.com. Head over there and send her a big "hi" from us. We know you will love her work. About Jess Wilson Jess Wilson is a Functional Nutritionist, Gut Health and Hormone Practitioner and All-Round Wellness Coach. Also she is a busy mum, an ocean lover and a runner... who loves to live a vibrant life (usually flying by the seat of my pants.)

Jess Wilson job is to help you put yourself back together, to see you happy and healthy again,

And to teach us that this one big happy life we have is worth living, in the healthiest way.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Been wondering about the keto diet? Wanting to know what exogenous ketones are, what the different types are? Looking to improve your athletic performance, lose weight, optimise your brain function or even support recovery from brain injuries and many other health issues, if you answered yes to any of these then this is the podcast for you.

Frank Llosa is the CEO and founder of Ketoneaid and is an expert in Ketone Esters and also a product called HardKetones an standard alcohol substitute that may have you super excited. I know I am. We dive deep into the science of ketone salts vs ketone esters and how they work in the body, how to use ketone esters and what you can expect. We also discuss his new range of R1,3 Butanediol products that give you the relaxation and buzz that alcohol does but without all the body and brain damaging aspects of acetyl adelhyde the breakdown product from standard alcohols. If you are keen to try the Esters go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/anti-aging-and-longevity-supplements/products/ketoneaid-ke4-pro-ketone-ester-3-bottles-60ml-each-12-serves-a-bottle We hope to get the Hardketones in too shortly so watch this space. You can find out more about Frank and his products and development story here https://shop.ketoneaid.com/ Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" Lisa does a solo cast and talks about all the exciting areas she has been researching. From her favourite courses and books to the latest information on anti-aging and longevity to her curated supplement range, infrared light therapy and more. Lisa also shares where her focus is now going and what you can expect moving forward. Here are some links mentioned in the podcast: Book Harnessing The Nine Hallmarks of Aging by Greg Macpherson https://www.theninehallmarksofaging.com/ The Boulder Longevity Institute's learning Academy Blood chemistry Course link https://bli.academy/labs-101/ The Longevity and anti-aging course by Dr Elena Seranova and Professor Jesse Coomer https://the-foundations-of-longevity.teachable.com/p/foundationsoflongevityandlifeextension?coupon_code=LISA
Vielights Photobiomodulation episodes Dr Lew Lim Photobiomodulation - What it is and how it helps. With Dr Lew Lim https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-lew-lim/ The Healing Benefits of Photobiomodulation with Peter Adams https://www.lisatamati.com/podcast--peter-adams/ To get a discount on any Vielight.com products use code "tamati" to get 10% off at checkout Thyroid Testing Panel If you would like to get a comprehensive thyroid test done with Lisa reach out to support@lisatamati.com If you would like to get Lisa's Epigenetics testing program go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics If you want to get The DNA Company's genetic test done go to https://dna.lisatamati.com/dna If you would like to find out more about the Dr's Talks Summit, "Biohack Your DNA"that Lisa was a speaker at alongside guests like Dave Asprey and Dri Eliaz go to https://www.dna.drtalks.com/?oid=17&ref=2564 If you would like to work one on one with Lisa grab a consult and our team will reach out with a suitable time https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations If you would like to get Lisa's new Ebook/Summit Series "What your oncologist isn't telling you" go here https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/what-your-oncologist-isnt-telling-you-the-metabolic-approach-to-cancer-interview-series Check out Lisa's curated longevity supplement ranges at https://shop.lisatamati.com/ and her NMNbio shop at www.nmnbio.nz Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this weeks episode of "Pushing the Limits" a luminary in the field of neuroscience and chemistry, founder, president and CEO of Prodrome Sciences Dr Dayan Goodenowe joins us to share his knowledge on how we can protect our brain health and even reverse many types of neurodegeneration. He is the holder of over 17 patents and is the author of "Breaking Alzheimers" a definitive work highlighting 15 years of research. What you will learn in this episode: * How to extend your healthspan using plasmalogens * How to reverse brain damage * What autism, multiple sclerosis, parkinsons and motor neurons all have in common * Diagnostic tools developed by Dr Dayan to catch disease processes before they become a major issue. * What Dr Dayans favourite supplements are and why. * Mechanisms of plasmalogens * Why the membranes of your cells are critical to your health * A simple blood test you can do catch disease early. Currently only available in a few countries.

If you are wanting to recover after a brain injury or disease or perhaps an ailment runs in your family's line that you want to avoid. Perhaps you want to support the membranes, which are the building blocks of your body then this is the episode for you, want to understand how to avoid cancer or what you can do about autism or multiple slcerosis then this is a must listen episode. If after listening to this episode you want to get some Plasmalogens then visit https://prodrome.com/ and use cod "Lisa" at check out to get 20% off your purchase price. Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

About Dr Dayan Goodenowe

Dr. Goodenowe's research into the biochemical mechanisms of disease started in 1990. His curiosity about the biochemistry of life is as insatiable today as it was 30 years ago. In those 30 years, Dr. Goodenowe invented and developed advanced bioinformatic technologies, designed and manufactured novel supplements, and identified biochemical prodromes of numerous diseases including Alzheimer's disease and dementia, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, autism, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, and numerous cancers.

Neuroscientist & Biochemist, Inventor, Author, Dr Dayan Goodenowe has over 30 years of diverse scientific research experience and has explored topics ranging from software, to mechanics, to theoretical physics, to neuroscience. From this vast knowledge, he creates regular presentations and videos exploring many topics of great interest to him and shares what he has learned. To find out more visit https://drgoodenowe.com/ and https://prodrome.com/blood-test/ Dr Dayans book "Breaking Alzheimers is available on https://prodrome.com/cart/ Powerful Quote

"Individuals with high plasmalogens live and function longer — by about 30 years — than those with low plasmalogens." Dr. Goodenowe

"Plasmalogens compose 20% of our brain structure. What happens when our levels are low, particularly as they decline rapidly with age?" Dr. Goodenowe

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

This week on "Pushing the Limits" podcast Lisa interviews European Body Building Champion/Nutritionist and Keto expert Richard Smith. Richard Smith is a previous morbidly obese guy who was diabetic by age 27, had debilitating anxiety and depression. After discovering the keto diet he turned his life around became nutritionist and a British Body Building and European Champion and now lives to educate people on optimising their health thorugh exercise and nutrition, supplements and lifestyle interventions. If you want to discover why counting calories is not the best method for weight loss, then this episode is for you! 3 Reasons to Listen: * Why counting calories is not the best method for weight loss. * The role of insulin resistance and blood sugar regulation. * Carbs vs Protein and Fats.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources

  1. Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  2. You can also connect with Matty on his Website
  3. YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

About Matty Lansdown

Matty Lansdown is a scientist & nutritionist with over 10 years of experience and a background working in the health system. Firstly, in a nutritional epigenetics lab servicing elite athletes and also working as part of a disease research team within hospitals.

Just a few years into his cancer hospital job, surrounded by amazing professors, doctors, PhD's nurses and fellow scientists he began to feel like an imposter. He was asking questions that no one else seemed to be asking, about the cause of disease and the impact of food on the body... It was so strange to him that quite obviously the large majority of patients were overweight or obese and no one talked about their diet or their lifestyle. Ever.

You can also connect with Matty on his Website

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

'Are you an emotional eater? Do you sabotage your own weight loss goals? Goodness knows I have personally struggled with this one. You know.. how whenever you are stressed you reach for that comforting chocolate bar. Reminiscent of that famous scene in the Bridget Jones movie when she breaks up with her man. Ever wondered why when your logical thinking brain makes a decision to eat more healthily... you somehow sabotage yourself. It's like someone else is in charge. Well in this week episode scientist Matty Lansdown sits down with me to discuss such themes. Matty Lansdown is a scientist & nutritionist with over 10 years of experience and a background working in the health system. Firstly, in a nutritional epigenetics lab servicing elite athletes and also working as part of a disease research team within hospitals.

Just a few years into his cancer hospital job, surrounded by amazing professors, doctors, PhD's nurses and fellow scientists he began to feel like an imposter. He was asking questions that no one else seemed to be asking, about the cause of disease and the impact of food on the body... It was so strange to him that quite obviously the large majority of patients were overweight or obese and no one talked about their diet or their lifestyle. Ever.

Despite that, I was 100% certain of what I had realised years before: that being overweight or obese was the number 1 predictor of getting any of the chronic diseases (..and often it ends up being several).

Working in this environment and asking unconventional questions led him down the research rabbit hole of mainstream medical history (hint, it's terrifying) but it also allowed many epiphanies and truths about health and wellness to flow into his mind and be realised.

And so feeling misaligned with this behemoth entity that runs the world, he left my corporate science career because I saw the grand canyon sized hole in the world of health, nutrition and weight loss:

On this podcast we have often talked about ideal diets and nutrition but never have we tackled the emotional aspect of it and in this episode that is exactly what we do.

So if you are sick of yo yo diets and never achieving sustainable fat loss, if you are sick of failing and feeling guilty then this is the episode for you. If you want to stay healthy and be in control then Matty is the man.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn To Achieve Lasting Weight Loss Through Ideal Diet and Nutrition 2. Understand how to achieve sustainable fat loss 3. Learn how to stay healthy and be in control.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com. We can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting-edge science) combats the effects of ageing while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * You can also connect with Matty on his Website * YOUR DNA 360 REPORT + ONE-ON-ONE CONSULTATION

About Matty Lansdown Matty Lansdown is a scientist & nutritionist with over 10 years of experience and a background working in the health system. Firstly, in a nutritional epigenetics lab servicing elite athletes and also working as part of a disease research team within hospitals.

Just a few years into his cancer hospital job, surrounded by amazing professors, doctors, PhD's nurses and fellow scientists he began to feel like an imposter. He was asking questions that no one else seemed to be asking, about the cause of disease and the impact of food on the body... It was so strange to him that quite obviously the large majority of patients were overweight or obese and no one talked about their diet or their lifestyle. Ever.

You can also connect with Matty on his Website

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this episode Lisa speaks to chiropractic doctor Dr Dean Carter about chiropractic treatments and his holistic approach to health and wellness and why chiropractic is just one of a number of pillars that underpin a healthy human.

Here are three reasons to listen in:

  1. Understand what sublaxations are

  2. Understand how the spine and spinal health and nervous system effect the body

  3. The pillars that should make up and round out your chiropractic care and why chiropractors do more than just "crack backs"

"The doctor of the future will give no medicine but will interest his or her patients in the care of the human frame, in proper diet and in the cause and prevention of disease." Thomas A Edison

Dr Dean's approach to health and life philosophy is holistic, vitalistic and natural. His unique view of health is the underpinning foundation of Living Chiropractic & Wellness. Dr Dean believes in taking the time to get to the core issue of health problems. He sets out to understand the contributing factors of his patients health concerns, rather than simply dealing with their symptoms. The impact of losing many family members to lifestyle diseases such as heart disease, diabetes and cancer was the main influence for him to study health sciences, lifestyle and wellness care as a way of life and vocation.

Dr Dean has twenty years of experience in wellness care and 15 years in chiropractic.

Practicing as a Chiropractor in Pukekohe for the last 15 years, Dr Dean understands the importance of his practice members keeping active. He empowers them to exercise, maintain postural awareness, and to stretch every day.

Visit Dr Carter and his team at

https://www.livingchiro.co.nz/

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://wellness.lisatamati.com/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting-edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and the liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity that are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting-edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this Episode, Lisa talks about How to optimise sleep and the steps that you can take each day to overcome it. She also provide tips that you can copy to properly optimise your sleeping routine and to have a good sleep each day. Also she identify the different factors that can hinder us from getting enough sleep and provide medical and practical solution to have better sleep.

For more information and more medical explaination on how you can optimise sleep, check the previous episode of Pushing The Limits with Dr Kirk Parsley :

lisatamati.com/podcast--dr-kirk-parsley/

If you're looking how to optimise your sleep, then this episode is for you!

3 Reasons to Listen:

  1. Discover how to optimise your sleep
  2. Learn the medical and practical solution to have better sleep
  3. Top Tips to Optimise Your Sleep

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.peakwellness.co.nz/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?
Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?
Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?
Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.
If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.
For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa

Are you struggling with a health issue and need someone who looks outside the square and someone connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you or visit

Lisa's Health Consulting

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order Lisa's Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff

Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS.

During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.
Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

If you're like most people, you probably think of saunas as a luxurious way to relax after a long day. But did you know that sauna therapy can also offer many health benefits? Sauna therapy has multiple positive effects on your physical health — and an infrared sauna can help optimise those effects.

In this episode, Alex Tyson discusses the benefits of an infrared sauna, especially on cardiovascular health. He also recounts how he involved himself in the sauna industry and why he chose to take over their family business at a young age. Finally, he offers advice on how to use infrared saunas and how to pick the best ones.

If you're looking to optimise your health and boost the effectiveness of your workouts, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover the benefits of sauna therapy. 2. Understand the science behind the effects of a sauna on your cardiovascular system and parasympathetic nervous system. 3. Learn how to pick high-quality infrared saunas.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.peakwellness.co.nz/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, decreases dramatically over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting-edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and the liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity that are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting-edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:12] Alex’s Sauna Journey * Alex's parents introduced him to the sauna industry from an early age. * His parents eventually began to build their sauna company, iHealth Saunas. * Alex took over the family business in 2017 at the age of 24. * His passion for helping others drives him to continue running his company.

[07:32] What Does Sauna Therapy Do? * Sauna therapy enhances the cardiovascular system. * It encourages the body to increase circulation and dilate blood vessels. * During a sauna session, the body naturally sweats, cools itself, and removes toxins.

  • Saunas are a continuous cardiovascular workout that doesn't require the usage of any muscles.
  • Saunas accelerate recovery by reducing lactic acid buildup.

[14:11] The Infrared Sauna Difference * Compared with other types of saunas, infrared ones warm the body at a much lower temperature and activate its heat response system. * Infrared saunas can be more comfortable than traditional ones due to the lower temperature. * Heat stress stimulates the body to be awake. * It also activates the parasympathetic nervous system.

[20:00] How to Use Sauna Therapy * The best approach to using an infrared sauna depends on your goals. * A hot sauna session in the morning or a cooler session in the evening may improve sleep. * Red-coloured lights help balance your circadian rhythm. * It’s best to have a lukewarm shower and decrease the lights in your home after a sauna session to optimise your sleep.

[25:11] On Growth Hormones * Using the sauna three days in a row can help boost growth hormone production. * The deeper penetration of infrared saunas helps stimulate human growth hormone production, even at lower temperatures. * Fasting is another excellent approach.

  • There are multiple ways to address a health problem.
  • The fundamentals of health and well-being need a multi-pronged approach.

[31:54] Alex's Path to Health Consciousness * The number of individuals who came to Alex with debilitating illnesses and his father's Alzheimer's diagnosis prompted Alex to take care of his health. * Poor sleep and chronic stress are all related to Alzheimer's. * Fortunately, more people are open to sharing information on health and wellness.

[39:17] On Running The Company * Alex took over his parents' company because he believed in its mission. * Growing a company requires hard work. It isn't easy, but Alex pushed through it because he believed in what he was doing. * Entrepreneurs must focus on their customers and provide quality products to engage more people.

[45:16] Tips on Picking Quality Infrared Saunas * Examine the wavelength report to ensure the light it emits is infrared. * Know the light's electromagnetic field. * Ensure the infrared sauna is electrically approved in your area. * Feel the timbers and craftsmanship. * Read the company's reviews and become familiar with its services.

7 Powerful Quotes

'It's a natural bodily process to sweat. And for a lot of the population, they don't sweat a lot, right? And sauna is a really important way to remove toxins from the body as we know, and just open up the biggest organ of the body, which is the skin.'

'I'm really big on education in general. Because we don't know what we don't know. And chances are we have some ritual or routine in our life that doesn't serve us.'

'When I'm working with people or whatever, there is the problem in the middle; and there's 10,000 ways that we're going to attack it. And that could be a combination of food, fasting, hyperbaric, saunas, exercise, time, nature and meditation. All these things are valid pieces of the puzzle.'

‘There has to be a multi pronged approach. Yeah, we need to look at the fundamentals of health and well being and see if we can tackle it through all of those.’

‘There was always something inside me that knew that there were bigger things that I wanted to create and manifest in this world.’

'The sauna does become a really valuable part of our life. I really miss my sauna if I'm away and I can't sauna where I am. And that's a common thing that we hear from people. And so it's important that whatever sauna company you go with, [it] can look after you down the track.'

'We want people to be inspired and continue on that journey because the sauna is a real powerful catalyst for people. And it's about building the rituals into our life to really take our health to a higher level.'

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Track your blood glucose in real-time with Levels Health. * Cortisol Effects on Body by Dr Ben Bickman. Watch the Keto Camp episode here. * Keto Kamp * Listen to Alex’s podcast, Finding Space * Know more about Found Space * Grab a copy of Health Supercharged

About Alex Alex Tyson is a health educator and business leader. He is the CEO of Found Space, a company that manufactures and installs Infrared Saunas across Australia. His enterprise is committed to empowering people by improving their wellness, energy, and life.

In keeping with his mission to raise health awareness, he published the book Health Supercharged, which encourages individuals to bring the foundations of health and well-being into their homes.

You can reach Alex through his website or his official Instagram account.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the benefits of an infrared sauna.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Medicine should improve people’s health. Yet, Western medicine focuses on symptoms, often disregarding how our bodies function as a system. Over the years, there is an emerging trend of leveraging functional medicine to tackle this very problem by using a more holistic approach. Did you know that the approach of functional medicine is not new? In fact, Chinese medicine works similarly.

Functional medicine is not only about integrating these two medicinal disciplines, but it’s also creating a new standard for healthcare. Stem cell therapy is found to be effective for so many conditions, from autoimmune diseases to neurological problems. With increasing research on the treatment, stem cell therapy continues to show potential positive results for more health conditions. It also has powerful anti-ageing properties.

In this episode, stem cell therapy pioneer Dr Joy Kong joins us to share her experience in the medical industry and why she focused on stem cell therapy. She shares its numerous benefits and how people can use it based on their conditions. Our health functions as an overall system. It’s no longer enough to depend on the Western approach of treating symptoms — we need to get to the root problems.

If you want to learn more about fighting ageing and diseases through stem cell therapy, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover what stem cell therapy is and how it can treat various conditions. 2. Understand the importance of treating root problems rather than symptoms. 3. Learn how to leverage stem cell therapy depending on your goals.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.peakwellness.co.nz/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com. We can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting-edge science) combats the effects of ageing while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff Introducing PerfectAmino

  • PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein.
  • PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories.
  • 100% vegan and non-GMO.
  • The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily.
  • Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes!
  • No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Grab your Ketones here.

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Are All MSCs Created Equal? from Dr Joy Kong * American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy * THEA Center for Regenerative Medicine * Tiger of Beijing: The Inspirational Memoir of a Fierce Regenerative Medicine Physician by Dr Joy Kong * The Web That Has No Weaver: Understanding Chinese Medicine by Ted Kaptchuk * Connect with Dr Joy: Uplyft Center | Chara Biologics | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube

Episode Highlights [02:53] Dr Joy’s Background * Dr Joy moved from China to the US at 20 years old. She wrote a book detailing her 3-year journey of getting into the US and adapting to the culture. * Growing up in a Chinese family, Dr Joy was used to both Western and Chinese medicine. * Chinese medicine looks at the human body as a system and complex web. This is what Western medicine lacks. * When trying to integrate Chinese and Western medicine together, Dr Joy ran into the problem of different languages. * Then, she discovered the emerging field of functional and anti-ageing medicine, which also treats the body as a system.

[09:44] Healthcare as We Know It Needs to Change * Despite having the biggest spending per capita on healthcare, America remains rampant with obesity and chronic diseases. * Over time, people began accepting Chinese medicine practices like acupuncture. * It’s the same thing with stem cell therapy. Its benefits are now more widely understood.

[13:51] What Is Stem Cell Therapy? * All our tissues contain stem cells, and it’s only until they form organs that they create specialised cells. * The gold standard used in stem cell therapy is mesenchymal stem cells because of its more general function. * Mesenchymal stem cells modulate the environment they’re in. Listen to the full episode to hear Dr Joy’s explanation of how these stem cells create a coordinating effect. * Stem cell therapy can produce incredible results and transform people’s lives.

[20:42] Are All Mesenchymal Stem Cells Equal? * Dr Joy uses birth tissue-derived stem cells from healthy births. * In her research, she found that birth tissue-derived stem cells are better than those derived from bone marrow and fat. * Birth tissue-derived stem cells are more potent because they’re primitive, active, have more anti-inflammatory capabilities, and can shift your immune system. * All embryonic and adult stem cells have the potential to cause tumour formation and promote existing cancer. * However, birth tissue-derived stem cells don’t have this potential and can also detect cancer.

[28:17] How to Use Stem Cell Therapy * Utilising stem cell therapy depends on your goals. For example, if you’re an athlete who injured your ligaments or tendon, the therapy involves a direct injection on the injury. * Older adults with chronic inflammatory conditions will need a systemic approach to regenerate the whole body. * Dr Joy uses both IV injections and direct injections to the knee for patients with osteoarthritis. * The therapy is so potent that it can help change the internal environment of your body. * Inflammation can actually make stem cells work better. You don’t need to wait to get your inflammation levels down before getting the therapy.

[35:09] Benefits of Stem Cell Therapy * Dr Joy observed that stem cell therapy can help people with various kinds of systemic conditions. * Even if you inject the stem cells in one area, they will eventually get into the bloodstream and become systemic. * For patients with a significant illness, Dr Joy recommends getting at least 2-3 sessions. * Meanwhile, Dr Joy recommends a session every 3-6 months to address anti-ageing concerns.

[38:53] Getting to Where She Is * Dr Joy got into medicine because she wanted to make a difference in people’s lives. * She worked in psychiatry before, and while the medicine helped patients, they did not address root causes. * Stem cells are currently the most holistic treatment available. It’s not injecting molecules — it’s injecting intelligence. * She loves learning different disciplines, and she realised how all the organs have common themes.

[43:11] Functional Medicine Will Become the Standard * Functional medicine will someday become the standard approach in medicine because it addresses root causes and not just symptoms. * It’s a grassroots movement because it’s people and patients who will advocate for it, rather than doctors. * More people are realising that conventional medicine is no longer enough.

[45:40] Emerging Research in Stem Cell Therapy * There’s now more research on stem cell therapy. Currently, most of it focuses on autoimmune diseases. * There’s also research on diabetes, neurological conditions, stroke, injuries, inflammatory diseases, autism, and addiction, among others. * In addition, it can increase lifespan by about 30% and regenerate your brain, eyes, and more. * Listen to the full episode to hear more about stem cell research!

[50:38] What Happens as We Age? * We run out of stem cells as we age because of inflammation. We also keep using them throughout life. * Thus, it’s not recommended to keep activating your own stem cells. * When we’re born, one in 10,000 cells is a mesenchymal stem cell. By our 40s, this drops to one in 400,000, then one in 2 million by our 80s. * Stem cells are the engine for regeneration. * Stem cell therapy is becoming more accessible worldwide.

[54:41] Should We Bank Our Children’s Cells? * Dr Joy shares that it is useful to bank your own child’s cells. But using other people’s cells is also okay. * When we put stem cells into our bodies, they will be activated and eventually die off. * If you’re trying to bank your child’s cells for your own use, the tissue bank may not release it for you. * Stem cell therapy is going to advance so that you probably don’t even need to bank your child’s cells.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘There's no prejudice. It just all about, “Okay, for this, this Chinese medicine work much better. And for this problem, okay, let's do this Western medicine. That works much better than the Chinese medicine.”’

‘The Western medicine doesn't yet have a system to understand how you put all these relationships together. That's where it's lacking. And that's where I wanted to borrow some of the wisdom from Eastern medicine, where you can look at the body from a system point of view.’

‘I think hope is really important. There's so many conditions where traditional doctors just said, “There's no more we can do.” And then they come to do stem cells, and they get incredible results. So we are transforming people's lives.’

‘The younger stem cells from birth tissue have much better capability of detecting that cancer, so it can tell the cancer to die.’

‘There has been evidence that high inflammation actually make the stem cell work better. Basically, the inflammation of the body sends signals, so they make the cells more active. It's a double edged sword.’

‘No, I'm not the boss. I'm just really driven and really want to understand. I think it's intellectual curiosity and it’s passion because I went into medicine to really make a difference for people's lives.’

‘I call stem cells the engine for regeneration, and everything else we're doing, like the hyperbaric, like the nutritional therapy, light therapy, all these things are the fuel. Eventually, it fills the body, but it also fills the engine. The engine needs all these important factors, but you still need the engine. If you don't have that engine, you're not going anywhere.’

About Dr Joy Dr Joy Kong is a triple-board certified physician for the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, American Board of Addiction Medicine, and American Board of Anti-aging and Regenerative Medicine. She founded Chara Biologics to provide the best regenerative medicine in the country. She also founded the American Academy of Integrative Cell Therapy to provide physician education and training in regenerative medicine. Joy is also the founder and medical director of Uplyft Longevity Center, which aims to use cutting-edge therapies to help people suffering from chronic and degenerative conditions, as well as optimise people’s health.

Joy embraces practising medicine in a holistic, comprehensive, and personalised manner by treating the root causes of illnesses, not just the symptoms. She is passionate about regenerative medicine and has lectured internationally on stem cell treatment and has worked with various cell laboratories in the US.

Joy also wrote her memoir, Tiger of Beijing, detailing her 3-year journey of coming to the United States at the age of 20. The book won the 2020 Book of the Year by IAOTP.

Want to learn more about stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine? Check out Uplyft Center and Chara Biologics.

You can also connect with Joy on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

The human brain has various states which alter our mood, cognitive function, and even physical health. Being in the right state at the right time may dramatically bolster our bodies against diseases such as Alzheimer's and neurodegeneration or optimise our brain functioning. Photobiomodulation (PBM) is a field of study dealing with light and its physical effects or interactions with the body. Vielight's products, which utilise PBM technology, may help address neurodegeneration and a variety of other health concerns.

In this episode, Peter Adams, Vice President of Business Development at Vielight, talks about the science and mechanisms of action behind photobiomodulation’s health benefits. He also discusses Vielight’s products and their therapeutic effects in fighting off neurodegeneration.

If you want to learn about photobiomodulation’s positive health effects, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:

  1. Understand the benefits of photobiomodulation on brain injuries and other health concerns.
  2. Learn PBM’s mechanisms of action and the science behind how it works.
  3. Discover Vielight’s PBM products.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up

For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.peakwellness.co.nz/epigenetics.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year's time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5 km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching

Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us through support@lisatamati.com, and we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books

My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions worldwide, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger*

Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting-edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and the liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity, which are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing

We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN

Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting-edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined

  • Cellular Health
  • Energy & Focus
  • Bone Density
  • Skin Elasticity
  • DNA Repair
  • Cardiovascular Health
  • Brain Health
  • Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection

For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights

[03:08] What Is Photobiomodulation?

  • Photobiomodulation or PBM utilises the way light physically affects the human body instead of light's effects on our cognitive and mental faculties.
  • Light wavelengths of 600 to 1100 nanometers (nm) have therapeutic purposes.
  • Blue or ultraviolet light is an excellent disinfectant but can't penetrate deeply due to its shorter wavelength.
  • At the red end of the colour spectrum, infrared light may overheat heat or burn cells.
  • There's a sweet spot near the red end that has a nice combination of penetration but without the negative cellular effect.

[05:21] How Light Gets into the Body

  • One way to get light into the body is intranasally. There's a profusion of blood cells very close to the surface in the sinuses, so it's a good place to penetrate the blood.
  • Dr Lew Lim, founder and CEO of Vielight, discovered the non-invasive intranasal method.
  • Another path is transcranial using diodes.
  • Vielight’s goal has always been to develop and design low-power rechargeable devices that are easy and safe to use at home.
  • Vielight did a study with the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH), proving that the whole brain is affected by light diodes.

[10:21] Neuro Alpha and Neuro Gamma

  • Vielight’s product, Neuro Alpha, pulses at 10 Hz, helping the brain resonate in the alpha wave band.
  • Neuro Gamma, pulsing at 40 Hz, was designed mainly to address the reduction in beta-amyloid plaques, which may be associated with Alzheimer's disease.
  • The effect of the two products has yet to be rigorously scientifically quantified, but users have reported significant benefits.
  • Many sports professionals and psychological trainers use Vielight's products to prepare for a match or game.
  • After Peter was in an accident, Neuro Alpha calmed him down while he had a concussion. He used the Neuro Gamma to help alleviate brain fog while at work.

[13:32] Healing Mechanisms of PBM

  • There is an increase in glutamate after a traumatic brain injury, which leads to neurons constantly firing and dying, so glutamate level needs to be controlled post-concussion.
  • Vielight recently completed a study on forty retired athletes with repetitive head injuries at the University of Utah. Pre- and post-fMRIs showed increased blood flow in the brain.
  • One of the key mechanisms of PBM delivered intranasally is a change in the viscosity, which increases microcirculation. PBM also increases nitric oxide and leads to a reduced oxygen species effect.
  • PBM increases adenosine triphosphate (ATP) levels — a good indicator of immune function. The Cytochrome c oxidase leads to increased oxygen at the ATP synthase, which increases ATP production.

[35:30] 633 Red, 655 Prime, 810 Infrared and Neuro Pro

  • Vielight's 633 red uses a light-emitting diode (LED), while 655 Prime is a red laser diode with more power and penetration. Both products bioinfuse the blood.
  • 810 Infrared is near the infrared band, and its diode produces a red glow. Near-infrared diodes can go into the deep brain.
  • Neuro Pro uses six diodes and an intranasal. Users control each diode with an app, where they can change the power, pulse frequency, and phase. The device can go from 0 Hz up to 10 kilohertz.
  • Vielight’s products can help address neurodegeneration, which can come from repeated brain injuries usually experienced by athletes.

[35:30] X-Plus and Neuro

  • Vielight's X-plus has an intranasal and applicator. Users can use it with Neuro devices to reach the back of the head or other body parts.
  • Recently Vielight completed a clinical trial with COVID-positive patients, wherein X-Plus was used to stimulate the immune system of the thymus.
  • X-Plus can also be used to repair wounds from injuries in the bones and muscles.
  • Vielight’s Neuro uses four diodes, covering the default mode network of the brain.

7 Powerful Quotes

“One of the key mechanisms of photobiomodulation, especially directly into the blood through the nose, is a change in the viscosity, increasing the microcirculation, and also an increase in nitric oxide, which is another great healer as well. And, of course, then there's the reduced oxygen species effect, so inflammation gets affected too. So there's a whole bunch of effects that seem to be happening in parallel.”

“I think there's hope for Alzheimer's. I just saw another study with autism come out of Italy using neuro as well, which looks really promising.”

“I always caution people to think that photobiomodulation is the answer to Alzheimer's. I think even if you look at, for example, antipsychotic drugs, anticonvulsant drugs, all of them, you're not gonna say that one is going to fix everything, and the chances of one fixing anything is less than 30%. [It's] the hit rate.”

“It's my belief that underlying conditions that cause plaque in the brain could come from a myriad of sources, and I think it depends on your own individual profile, or physiological profile and chemical pathogenic profile.”

“I think a lot of us have now over-excited brains from brain injuries, from toxins in the environment, from the wrong foods and inflammation, and all of the things that sort of happen. Trying to come down and get it in the right zone at the right time is definitely very, very important.”

“...The gamma brainwave state of sleep, when you enter that state, that's the key detox part of the brain at night. And so, there is definitely something there to be sought, I think. If you can do it in meditation during the daytime, I think that's even better.”

“There's always another quest to research, and it's really patient-reported outcomes that give us great spirit.”

Resources

  • Listen to the podcast episode: Photobiomodulation - What it is and how it helps. With Dr Lew Lim
  • Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron!
  • Pulsed Near-Infrared Transcranial and Intranasal Photobiomodulation Significantly Modulates Neural Oscillations: a pilot exploratory study.
  • Find all the Vielight’s products discussed in this episode on their website.
  • Vielight’s Research & Clinical Trials
  • Study on the effects of the Vielight Neuro Gamma on individuals with sports-related traumatic brain injuries (TBIs)
  • Connect with Peter Adams: Apollo

About Peter

Peter Adams is the Vice President of Business Development at Vielight. He has worked in executive, consulting and management positions internationally and in Canada, in large corporations and startups, including Fortune 500 companies. His current focus is on early-market development for Vielight Inc.

Learn more about Vielight’s products on their website.

Get to know Peter’s professional experience on Apollo.

Enjoyed This Podcast?

If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn about the benefits of photobiomodulation (PBM).

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Diabetes is known as 'The Silent Killer' for a reason. It begins quietly and gradually worsens, resulting in complications such as stroke, high blood pressure, and nerve damage. Doctors have recommended many approaches to combat diabetes, but there are better and more effective ways to address the disease!

In this episode, Ben Azadi builds on his expertise in metabolic flexibility and the science of keto. Ben also shares his fitness journey and how his mindset changed him from obesity to mental and physical six-pack abs. Ben also shares scientific-proven ways to possibly help improve cell health through the help of exogenous ketones, keto flexing, and others.

If you want to learn more about improving cell health for optimal keto results, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand the importance of the cell membrane and how taking care of the cell can improve optimal health. 2. Be inspired by Ben’s fitness journey. Learn how you can start your fitness journey! 3. Learn scientific-proven ways to help build the body’s metabolic flexibility for optimised keto results.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com — we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:03] Ben’s Fitness Story * Ben grew up following the standard 'sad, toxic, and process-filled American diet' alongside unhealthy behaviours linked to drugs, alcohol, and video games. * At 24, Ben started to read health books. Reading helped change his mindset and take ownership and responsibility for his life and decisions. * He began exercising and eating better. * Ben went from 250 pounds at 34% body fat to 170 pounds at 6% body fat. * Ben continues to explore different diets and protocols and keeps up with the research.

[07:16] The Deal with Type II Diabetes * Ben's father had Type II diabetes and died from it despite following his healthcare providers' instructions. * His father’s untimely death prompted Ben to question the ‘conventional approach’ to treating diabetes and why many people suffer from the chronic disease. * Ben considers this a significant turning point in his transformation journey. He believes that the pain pushed him from hobby to purpose.

[10:43] Ben’s Book: Keto Flex * Ben has authored four books: Keto Flex, The Perfect Health Booklet, The Intermittent Fasting Cheat Sheet, and The Power of Sleep. * Keto Flex, his flagship book, was written to help people understand what ketosis is, how to apply it, and how to use it as one tool to achieve metabolic flexibility. * A study conducted by the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill found that only 12% of the American adult population is metabolically healthy.

[14:47] Get Well, Fix the Cell * The human body has an innate intelligence that acts as the world's greatest physician, healer, doctor, chiropractor, and health coach from within. * The cell membrane is where this intelligence lies; hence, this is the part that needs care. * Ben explains that removing interferences from bad nutrition, lifestyle, and behaviour, among other things, is one method to promote cell membrane health. * Listen to the full episode to learn about good and bad oils!

[25:21] Insulin Resistance * Ben explains that the body’s optimal amount of glucose is about one to two teaspoons or 80 milligrams per deciliter. * Insulin levels spike when the body takes in too much glucose, overworking your receptors. * The solution is to reduce carbohydrate intake, practice intermittent fasting, and drop glucose and insulin. * Measure, then double your waistline. If it's more than your height, you probably have metabolic dysregulation.

[31:52] Taking Responsibility for your Health * Insulin resistance leads to Type II diabetes, leading to many other problems — stroke, heart attack, infections, and kidney failures. * Diabetes and insulin resistance are easy to reverse, but they involve time and effort. * Understanding the process and science will make people much more likely to do the work. * Epigenetic changes take place over at least six to eight weeks or longer. * There is no need to avoid carbs for years. Instead, try different avenues of healing to get optimal peak healthy states.

[38:33] Counter Regulatory Hormones * Human bodies drop insulin in a fasted state. The body's counter-regulatory hormones increase as you lower insulin. * This is the body’s innate intelligence to pump the body full of energy for daily functions. * At the same time, when the body is dropping insulin, it burns body fat and produces ketones giving you another fuel source. * Listen to the episode to learn more about how keto works!

[41:58] Metabolic Flexibility * Think of intermittent fasting as a muscle that develops over time. It has to be trained to have metabolic flexibility . * Hypoglycemic people often feel awful during the fast; instead of burning fat and producing ketones, their brains panic and send intense signals for cravings for sugar and carbs. * Exogenous ketones also help people transition through the phase. * Ben recommends adding ketones in the mix and electrolytes during keto to help transition into the ketosis state. * It gives the body the needed ketones, especially for people who have never experienced a deficit of calories or glucose.

[48:08] Keto Diets * Keto is not a diet. It is a metabolic process. * Ketosis is our natural fat-burning state. It has always been around for as long as humans have existed. * Dieting is not the only path to health — there are other tools to use.

[51:22] Focus on Cellular Health, Not Just Losing Weight * Do it from a lens of cellular health, not just losing weight. Do not lose weight to get healthy. As you get healthy, you will lose weight. * View health in cycles, just like in circadian rhythm. * Listen to the full episode to learn about the four pillars of keto flexing!

[59:35] Thyroid Epidemic * Insulin resistant bodies create more cellular inflammation, including membrane and receptor sites in the thyroid, making it more difficult for the thyroid to do its job. * Long term ketosis usually causes a thyroid epidemic. * Elevated insulin and chronically low insulin levels affect the body, particularly the thyroid. * Balance is always important.

7 Powerful Quotes

‘When I took ownership and responsibility, I immediately became the victor of my future [and] stopped becoming the victim of my history.’

‘When I went through my transformation, it was more of a hobby that I was treating health and teaching it. When I lost my dad, it went from a hobby to pain to purpose. And that's what lights me up every day to get the message out there.’

‘If you want to get well, you got to fix the cell.'

‘These are lifestyle interventions and dietary changes. And nobody can make money out of that. So nobody's going to be pushing you to do that. And it is hard.’

‘If you treat your health casually, you end up a casualty.’

‘...There’s a difference between interest and commitment. When you’re interested in something, you do it only when it’s convenient. When you’re committed to something you accept. No excuses, only results.’

‘So I love to kind of change the paradigm when it comes to keto. Teach people that keto is not a diet, keto is a metabolic process.’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Track your blood glucose in real-time with Levels Health. * Cortisol Effects on Body by Dr Ben Bickman. Watch the Keto Camp episode here. * Keto Kamp * Grab a copy of Ben’s latest book, Keto Flex: The 4 Secrets to Reduce Inflammation, Burn Fat & Reboot Your Metabolism * Listen to the Keto Kamp Podcast. * Connect with Ben: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram

About Ben Ben Azadi, FDN-P, is a certified functional health coach and the founder of Keto Camp, a global brand that aims to bring awareness to ancient healing strategies such as the keto diet and fasting. He is also the host of The Keto Kamp Podcast. Ben is also the author of four best-selling books: Keto Flex, The Perfect Health Booklet, The Intermittent Fasting Cheat Sheet, and The Power of Sleep.

In addition to Keto Camp, Ben also owned several fitness facilities, including Shredfat Inc, Live Free Zone Training, and Live Free Crossfit.

Learn more about Ben’s work on his website.

You can also connect with him on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Are you thinking of diving into the crypto space and investing in bitcoin? If so, you’re not alone.

In this episode, Rob Wolff discusses the mentality and strategies that you need when investing in bitcoin. It’s important to understand exactly what you’re getting into before taking the plunge, so he shares what bitcoin is and why it’s worth investing in. From understanding the technology behind it to assessing risk, volatility and making profits, we’ve got you covered.

If you’re new to investing in bitcoin or curious about the crypto space but don’t know where to start, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

If anyone is interested to know about getting into the crypto space, setting up secure accounts and crypto 101 then please reach out to lisa@lisatamati.com

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff * Introducing PerfectAmino * PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein. * PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories. * ​100% vegan and non-GMO. * ​The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily. * Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes! * ​No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Ketones

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand what bitcoin is and why you should invest in it. 2. Learn the mentality and strategies that you need when investing in crypto. 3. Find out the benefits, risks, and regulations surrounding crypto investing.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Dollar Cost Averaging Bitcoin * Connect with Rob: Website | Youtube | Twitter

Episode Highlights [03:12] Rob’s Background * After high school, Rob became a combat medic in the military. * He went into home health management and then medical device sales at a company called KCI after he was discharged from the military. * Eventually, he started an online education platform for nurses and got into real estate. * His first exposure to crypto was in 2012, and he used dollar-cost averaging.

[09:53] Getting Into Bitcoin and the Crypto Space * You can’t build wealth if you quit after making just a little money. * Inflation plays a large role in pushing people to consider alternative income streams such as bitcoin. * It’s difficult to make more bitcoin because its value lies in its scarcity or finiteness. * Bitcoin is a decentralized technology.

[22:51] Investing in Uncertain Times * We’re in for some bearish days and should expect that the traditional stock market will see a decline. * Rob predicts that because of fear, people will hold onto their cash and enter into what they consider risky assets. * Bitcoin may be volatile right now, but it will stabilize as time goes on. * Make sure you’re making the right decision for you and your family.

[22:51] Investment Mentality and Strategy * Everybody has the mentality to invest, but not everyone has the stomach for it. * The most stable asset and most volatile market is bitcoin Ethereum. * Do research on the projects and companies you’re interested in, determine whether you really want to invest in them, and only invest what you can afford to lose. * Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

[41:34] Volatility and Risk * Bitcoin is currently in price discovery mode. * Looking at the risk factor of the volatility, the time horizon can be different. * Volatility depends on the asset that you’re investing in, so volatility is fine as long as you can stick out the time horizon.

[44:20] Crypto Regulations * Triage on cryptos will be needed to come up with regulations. * With stablecoins, if they’re pegged to the dollar, determine the assets that they’re pegged to and perform audits, however many months it takes. * Bitcoin that you lend out to institutional investors will be collateralized.

[53:48] Adoption Curve * There’s already too much money in the crypto space and it’s going to keep growing. * Bitcoin creates jobs for miners and people doing construction. * Bitcoin is now a base layer protocol where you can build on second layer solutions and make transactions built on the safest, computerized network in the world.

[1:07:39] CBDC vs. Crypto * If you have a centralized ledger, banks will have control over your account. * Crypto isn’t for illicit transactions because every transaction is made on an open ledger. * CBDCs are not truly decentralized crypto.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘The value of Bitcoin lies in its scarcity.’

‘The reality is, is that I believe we're in for some pretty bearish days. And I believe that the traditional stock market on Wall Street, we're going to see a pretty big decline with the S&P 500 and NASDAQ as it goes down.’

‘In the short term right here, it's extremely important to make sure that you're making the right decision for you and your family.’

‘Everybody has the mentality to invest. But the question is, do you have the stomach?’

‘The basics are just like getting any investment: you take a look at the project or the company itself, and just go and just do as much research as you possibly can and go, do I want to invest into this, and I'm going to invest only what I can afford to lose.’

‘If you take a look at at the risk factor of the of the volatility, there is, again, the time horizon that you look at could be a lot different.’

‘People always complain about, oh, blockchain and crypto it's for illicit activities and things like that and drug smugglers. No, it's not. Because every transaction you do is on an open ledger.’

About Rob Rob Wolff is the host of Digital Asset News and the creator of DAN Teaches Crypto, a free crypto education platform for all levels of digital asset knowledge. With his incredible wealth of knowledge in crypto, he helps people understand cryptocurrency and digital asset news.

As a business owner and investor, Rob firmly believes the crypto space will change the world in dramatic ways. Learn more about his work on his website and YouTube channel. You can also connect with him on Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn about all things crypto.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

In this episode, Alan Cash talks about oxaloacetate and the beginning of his journey in developing it as a nutritional supplement. He shares the ongoing research on oxaloacetate's benefits, especially for patients suffering from brain damage. He also dives into oxaloacetate's ability to increase muscle use before fatigue and reduce anxiety and depression levels in women experiencing PMS.

If you want to learn more about oxaloacetate's many benefits and applications, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode: 1. Learn what oxaloacetate is and how it can help slow the biological effects of ageing. 2. Discover the numerous potential health benefits of oxaloacetate. 3. Get to know Alan’s journey in developing and manufacturing oxaloacetate as a nutritional supplement.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, and we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book, Relentless, chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions worldwide, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Quercetin and Trimethylglycine by NMN Bio

Benagene, an oxaloacetate supplement by benaGene

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff * Introducing PerfectAmino * PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein. * PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories. * ​100% vegan and non-GMO. * ​The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily. * Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes! * ​No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

Ketone Products by Keto-Pro

Exogenous Ketones developed by Nutritionist and Body Building champion Richard Smith.

Keto-Pro BHB Exogenous Ketones – 250g MORE BHB per gram than other MARKET LEADERS. During In-house testing, Keto-Pro BHB raised ketones quicker, higher and for longer than other market leaders. Ketones

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [09:36] How Alan Found Out About Oxaloacetate Alan got sick and needed to undergo brain surgery. He found out that his pain and illness were related to ageing.

As Alan researched more about ageing, he discovered calorie restriction, wherein organisms tend to live longer when they eat less.

Increasing the ratio of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (NAD) to NADH helps fight off ageing.

Alan started looking into biomechanical pathways and found that oxaloacetate that can change the ratio of NAD from NADH to 900% in just two minutes. He started testing oxaloacetate using worms and realised that the activated pathway was the same as calorie restriction.

[21:53] What is Oxaloacetate? Oxaloacetate is a naturally occurring molecule in our bodies during metabolism. It exists in every cell of the body and, therefore, is non-toxic.

Oxaloacetate is considered a hot molecule right now, given how it can help moderate metabolism on a cell-by-cell basis. Increasing oxaloacetate affects metabolism, which is vital to some people.

[25:38] Patenting Oxaloacetate Tohoku University in Sendai, Japan, conducted research in the 1960s which found how oxaloacetate reduced fasting glucose levels in type one and type two diabetics.

At first, Alan ran into the problem of being unable to get a patent for oxaloacetate, a naturally occurring compound in the human body. He persevered and eventually was able to own patent rights based on how oxaloacetate can maintain its stable form of enol-oxaloacetate.

After rigorous testing, their products now have a shelf life of two to three years or more.

[31:00] Oxaloacetate and the Warburg Effect Oxaloacetate is a potential drug for brain cancer such as glioblastoma. It also has the potential to reverse the Warburg effect, in which fermented glucose turns into lactate that a tumour feeds off.

Giving Oxaloacetate to cancer cells changes the cancer metabolism cell by cell. There’s a specific dosage where cancer cells stop reproducing.

[38:03] Oxaloacetate and Glutamate Glutamate is a compound that fires off the neutrons in the brain. Excessive glutamate excites the neurons until they die, a process known as excitotoxicity. Many studies describe how we may reduce the risk of excitotoxicity.

Alan is looking into cognition through clinical trials with Alzheimer’s disease patients. The study showed how oxaloacetate reduced glutamate levels. In the same clinical trial, they also found how oxaloacetate increased the amount of glucose the brain can take in.

The brain can take in more glucose due to the signalling protein PGC-1 Alpha enabling the production of more mitochondria.

[38:03] Oxaloacetate Can Improve Muscle Use Oxaloacetate also improves muscle use by 10% more before it goes into fatigue. 10% is a significant improvement for both top-end athletes and daily living.

Alan has done a clinical trial that showed a 25% to 30% drop in fatigue levels within six weeks, even for people with chronic fatigue syndrome or ME/CFS for up to 30 years. NF-κB turns on genes that release a cytokine storm, which at high levels can lead to chronic inflammation seen in arthritis or long COVID patients.

Animal models show that oxaloacetate led to a reduction of NF-κB’s translocation to the nucleus by 70%, which turns off the cytokine storm.

People experiencing chronic fatigue can benefit from oxaloacetate’s mechanism of producing new mitochondria.

[51:34] Increase Focus and Attention Using Oxaloacetate In animal models, oxaloacetate turns on the mechanism to increase the number of neurons in the brain and increase the length of the axons, the little tendrils that connect neurons.

Alan did a critical trial on the effect of oxaloacetate on premenstrual syndrome (PMS), wherein he found a 50% drop in anxiety, depression and suicide ideation.

Drugs have an immediate pharmacological effect. Another is the genomic effect with a cumulative property that takes about a month or more to see.

Even after getting better from your illnesses, keep the ball rolling and don’t stop intaking your medicine and supplements.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘We could see when we gave the oxaloacetate to them if they live longer, or if they didn't, so we could eliminate what were the critical genes. And, we were able to follow along with a pathway, and it turned out to be the exact same pathway as calorie restriction, which is really exciting.’

‘First of all, is oxaloacetate toxic? Well, it turns out it's a human molecule. It's in metabolism. It's in practically every cell of your body.’

‘Experiment and see what works and understanding some of these mechanisms is really important because then we can actually start to connect the dots of cells.’

‘The reality is most people are not going to have the perfect diet, not going to be in a perfect environment, can't maybe even afford to have great food, or organic food, or all of these things that restrict us from having the ideal.’

‘None of us are going to know what's around the corner for us but, if we can be in that preventative space and be understanding this more and more, then that is to me the most fascinating conversation we can have.’

‘What happens then is that they stop all their protocol, and the thing that they were doing and, “Now I'm fixed. I don't need it anymore.” And I'm like, “Hang on a minute, you don't drop the ball now. You're already underway. You got to stay underway. You got to keep it going.”’

‘You want that cumulative, and those epigenetic changes, and those long term changes.’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Oxaloacetate supplementation increases lifespan in Caenorhabditis elegans through an AMPK/FOXO-dependent pathway. * Studies on Anti-diabetic Effect of Sodium Oxalcacetate * Get benaGene Capsules containing oxaloacetate * Get TMG (Trimethylglycine) as the ultimate anti-aging combination with NMN * PerfectAmino Tablets by Bodyhealth * Keto-Pro’s D-BHB Exogenous Ketones - Chocolate Flavour * Keto-Pro’s Keto Bar - Chocolate Almond Brownie * Colloidal Health’s Colloidal Silver * Black Cumin Seed Oil * Connect with Alan Cash: LinkedIn

About Alan Alan Cash is a physicist, biologist and geologist. He's also a professional entrepreneur and the CEO and Founder of Terra Biological LLC and MetVital, Inc.

Alan is also the clinical trials supervisor and medical researcher. He’s currently pursuing the advancement and development of nutritional supplements containing oxaloacetate, which is known as a caloric-restriction mimetic compound. His research has brought profound breakthroughs addressing cognitive decline and anti-aging.

If you want to reach out, you may connect with Alan via LinkedIn.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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We don't often look at preventative measures when it comes to our health. We typically look for ways to get better after we get sick — take a pill or undergo this operation, and everything will be better! Don't put off becoming more health-conscious until you've been diagnosed with a disease like cancer. The adage still holds: prevention is better than a cure. In this episode, Best Selling Science Author++ Travis Christofferson discusses the root causes of diseases and how we can take a preventive approach to health. He shares emerging cancer treatment research and encourages us to learn more about them. Focus on your overall health rather than specific diseases. When your body has a good immune system, it can help prevent illnesses like cancer!

If you want to learn more about the latest in cancer research disease prevention, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand the root causes of diseases and how we can prevent them rather than waiting for illness. 2. Learn about emerging cancer treatment research, including the metabolic approach, ketosis, abscopal effect, etc. 3. The state of our health care systems

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and not getting anywhere with the traditional medical system and need people who look outside the square who are up on the cutting edge of research and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

Mindset and Mental Toughness coaching.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplement Range NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Quercetin and Trimethlyglycine by NMN Bio

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

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Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff * Introducing PerfectAmino * PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein. * PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories. * ​100% vegan and non-GMO. * ​The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily. * Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes! * ​No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos

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Episode Highlights [03:17] Travis’ Background * Travis has an undergraduate degree in biochemistry. He eventually took over the family business and got married. * He then finished his master's degree, focusing on cancer metabolism for his independent study. * The prevailing teaching during that time was that somatic mutations cause cancer. * Travis was inspired by the book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease, to do a thesis on metabolic theory. * Otto Warburg proposed the metabolic theory many years ago, but the medical community dismissed it as simplistic. New evidence reignited interest in the approach.

[08:10] The State of Healthcare * Public and health institutions have long accepted the somatic approach to cancer, with billions of dollars backing it. * The United States spends the most per capita on health care expenditure among developed countries yet has the lowest life expectancy. * The issue with the healthcare system lies in variations of treatment, over-treatment, and drug development process. * The healthcare industry is focused more on treating diseases rather than preventing them. * Although technology has advanced to assist people in tracking their health, people's health is deteriorating. Even if people live longer, they often experience illness and disability in their final years.

[12:48] Changing the Healthcare Industry * The healthcare incentive structure must change. Doctors get paid for every drug and procedure they prescribe, leading to overtreatment. * There are emerging practices where doctors get a big bonus per patient who doesn't need procedures, encouraging them to keep patients in good health. * When blood sugar levels rise, doctors usually diagnose diabetes. However, we can test for fasting insulin regularly to intervene. * This test can also help people prevent other diseases and become more health-conscious. * Change takes time with systems and industries, but we can take simple lifestyle interventions now.

[16:01] Why People Are Getting Sicker * Maintaining our health can be challenging. We've been conditioned that taking a magic pill is preferable to putting in the effort. * Remember that metabolic dysregulation causes aging, not the other way around. * In the last 10,000 years, humanity has drastically shifted to consuming processed foods, carbohydrates, and oils, resulting in noticeable consequences. * People have also become sedentary. * A hunter-gatherer society has no obesity, insulin resistance, or chronic systemic inflammation. However, we frequently see this in the Western world.

[20:32] The Root of Diseases * Understanding cellular health and inflammatory processes are critical in keeping yourself healthy. * Periods of food scarcity have happened throughout humanity's evolution. Our bodies enter ketosis due to the caloric deficit but most never reach this state. * Studies have shown that ketosis can help prevent diseases ranging from Alzheimer's to Parkinson's to cancer and diabetes. * Constantly eating keeps our immune system active and prevents it from resting, which has implications for chronic inflammatory diseases.

[24:53] What Happens During Ketosis? * Ketosis happens in a fasted state, and a ketogenic diet is nutritional maintenance. * When we fast, our bodies will mobilise the fat we have in our bodies and begin a process of beta-oxidation to burn off fat. * A caloric deficit makes this process faster, converting fats into ketone bodies, which then take the place of glucose. * Ketones have more thermodynamic energy and ATP per carbon unit compared to glucose. * Ketosis also boosts antioxidant levels. Since diseases are oxidative, ketosis can help to combat illnesses. Listen to the episode to learn more!

[32:01] Growing Healthcare Trends * Research has shown that fasting before chemotherapy can reduce some radiation side effects * Sugar is fuel for cancer cells, but doctors continue giving and allowing patients to consume it. * There's more awareness of the latest research. The annual Metabolic Therapeutic Conference has grown to around 1600 attendees. * When we approach doctors, we will receive information their institution has taught and allowed them to give us. * Even with COVID-19, people have yet to explore treatments like monoclonal antibodies, hyperbaric, and Vitamin C.

[44:00] The Abscopal Effect on Cancer * The abscopal effect is when you target a single tumour site, but it affects other tumour sites in the body. * Travis shares a case where someone with breast cancer on a checkpoint inhibitor received a much lower radiation dose. * In that case, radiation was sufficient to systematically stimulate the immune system to attack cancer, improving the patient's chances of survival.

[47:41] Advancements in Immunotherapy * Using peptides to manipulate the immune system is still a trial and error process. * The immune system's job is to survey for cancer, get rid of it early, and create a checkpoint to avoid attacking itself.

[49:44] Emerging Cancer Treatment Research * In detection, metastasis is an early stage event rather than a late-stage one. Cancer cells break off, dying when it reaches the bloodstream. * This selection pressure creates different genetic mutations in tumours. * The somatic mutation theory argues that a series of sequential mutations cause cancer, with each tumour site having a unique set of driving mutations. * The epigenetic metabolic theory posits that these mutations are a side effect of the disease. * All cancers burn sugar and evade the immune system, but mutations vary too much. Treatments should focus on epigenetic expression rather than mutations.

[55:16] Researching Treatment Options * The medical field is filled with uncertainty. Cancer treatment options have not been compared. * After an in-depth look at clinical trials, we find that what seems to be the best treatment paradigm isn't always the right option. * When conducting research, consider the data and evaluate it using a risk-reward framework. You can choose from low-risk alternatives.

[59:59] The Soil Approach to Cancer * Cancer grows in the presence of a favourable microenvironment and molecular events. It takes a long time for a chronic irritant to develop cancer cells. * Cancer cells take on characteristics of our earliest genes, including replication and the appearance of early embryos. * You can help your cells "behave" by providing oxygen and avoiding chronic irritants. * Nurture the microenvironment through exercising and eating the right foods. * Instead of focusing on the seed or cancer, we should concentrate on the soil or microenvironment.

[1:04:05] Health and Longevity * While we don't know humankind's natural and optimal states, ketosis and fasting provide a glimpse. * Cells stop metabolising as we age, causing inflammation. We may be able to extend life spans if we can reduce senescent cells. * Travis shares a study in which mice received fisetin, found in strawberries, reducing senescent cells and prolonging their life. * There's a lot of new research on substances that kill senescent cells, like senolytics, quercetin, and other compounds.

[1:08:49] About StageZero Life Sciences * StageZero Life Sciences looks into markers of inflammation, insulin resistance, etc. * They also recommend potential lifestyle interventions to change those markers. * They are currently available in Richmond, Virginia, Toronto, and Ontario, Canada.

7 Powerful Quotes 'It's just a combination of probably a terrible diet and just not moving enough because we were designed to go out and have to work every day to catch food. That's what we evolved, and when you uncouple your physiology from that environmental niche, you see all kinds of problems'

‘It appears that evolution has built in a powerful signal to that when you're in a caloric deficiency, you switch your metabolism…to something called ketosis where you completely shift what you're burning to these little small molecules that come from fat,’

‘We're terrible at focusing on prevention. We focus on the disease, trying to treat it once it's already manifest, which is an absolutely horrible strategy.’

‘If we look at cancer then as the prime drivers being metabolic and epigenetic, that means that all of those things potentially could be modifiable, right? We don't have to target mutations. We can look for ways to change the way cells are expressing genes and so forth, and metabolising substrates and things like that.’

‘Just mind the microenvironment of your body, which is giving you the right food, exercising. It's designed to do that. Every time you do that, it brings down those inflammatory processes, and so forth.’

‘We tend to think we're in this modern era, but with regard to cancer, we will look back 200 years from now, realise that we were just in the Dark Ages. We’re still using radiation which was invented about 110 years ago; chemotherapy was invented around World War II. That's still the mainstay of cancer treatments.’

‘When you really look deep, the two problems really are variation in treatment, over-treatment. The drug development process, I think, is one of the main problems too,’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Want to learn more from Travis? Check out his books: * + Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms + Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators is Trying to Transform our Health Care System + Ketones, The Fourth Fuel: Warburg to Krebs to Veech, the 250 Year Journey to Find the Fountain of Youth + The Origin (and future) of the Ketogenic Diet, co-authored with Dr Dom D’Agostino * Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer by Thomas Seyfried * Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer by Siddhartha Mukherjee * The Cancer Code: A Revolutionary New Understanding of a Medical Mystery by Dr Jason Fung * Healthy Conversations With Travis Christofferson and Guest, Jason Fung M D from StageZero Life Sciences * Check out these previous episodes with Dr Elena Seranova: * + Episode 238 - Reverse Ageing to Live Longer and Healthier + Episode 189 - Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity + Episode 183 - Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity * Learn more about cancer and health through our previous episodes: * + The Six Cornerstones for Better Health with Dr Charles Meakin + Cancer Revolution: The Metabolic Approach to Cancer with Maggie and Bradley Jones * Abscopal effect following radiation monotherapy in breast cancer: A case report * Fisetin is a senotherapeutic that extends health and lifespan * Short-term fasting accompanying chemotherapy as supportive therapy in gynecological cancer: protocol for a multicenter randomised controlled clinical trial * StageZero Life Sciences: Website | AVRT Program * Foundation for Metabolic Cancer Therapies * Connect with Travis: LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook

About Travis Travis Christofferson is the founder of The Foundation for Metabolic Cancer Therapies and works in Clinical Development at StageZero Life Sciences Ltd.

He is also a science author of several books, including Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer Is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms, Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators Is Trying to Transform Our Health Care System, Ketones, The Fourth Fuel, and co-author of The Origin (and future) of the Ketogenic Diet.

Want to learn more about Travis’ work? Check out Foundation for Metabolic Cancer Therapies.

You can also connect with him on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

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It’s typical for athletic performance to decline with age. (And, athletes may experience signs of accelerated aging caused by intense training.) If you’re worried about your declining performance, start looking at how you train and what you eat. We may not be able to reverse our chronological age, but we can guide our bodies through the ageing process.

Did you know that there are longevity strategies specifically for athletes? These strategies consider long-term performance, health, and muscle growth!

In this episode, Dr. Elena Seranova joins us to discuss how ageing can affect our bodies and our athletic performance. She shares her strategies, from supplements to lifestyle changes, that can help athletes combat the effects of ageing. If you’re overwhelmed by all of the information out there, remember: you need to build a good foundation first. Start with eating right and sleeping well; from there, you can eventually incorporate Dr. Elena’s other recommendations.

If you want to learn longevity strategies for athletes and how to improve athletic performance, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how ageing affects athletic performance and why athletes may experience signs of accelerated ageing. 2. Learn longevity strategies that will support athletic performance and your general health, like how to activate your autophagy pathways. 3. Understand that longevity is a process of building good habits; you can start out by focusing on the basics, like diet and sleep.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, which is all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mental performance for your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, and Run Longer Without Burnout or Injuries

Have you struggled to fit training into your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or you have done a few races but struggle with motivation or injuries?

Do you want to beat last year’s time, or finish at the front of the pack? Do you want to run your first 5-km, or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book, Relentless, chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

NMN Bio offers pure supplements that are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party-tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of ageing, and is designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

Episode Highlights [02:32] Why Athletic Performance Drops as We Age * The main cause of athletic performance decline is mitochondrial decline. Mitochondrial decline is linked to senescence cells. * Senescence cells stop dividing and do nothing. As we age, we may have 5-20% senescence cells in different tissues. * This causes inflammation and causes the mitochondria to function improperly, thus increasing reactive oxygen species within cells. * Nuclear DNA is usually packed in histones, which preserve genetic material. However, mitochondrial DNAs lack histones, making it prone to oxidative stress and mutations. * As we age, our epigenetic processes become less efficient; it becomes a vicious cycle with more reactive oxygen species and less capacity to deal with them.

[08:23] How Else Do Our Bodies Respond to Ageing * Ageing declines autophagy, which recycles cellular organelles. * When there’s nothing to clean up dysfunctional mitochondria, problems with energy generation arise. * Athletes who have exercised intensely their whole life will have worn-off tissues and lactic acid buildup. * Remember, exercise is good, since we want some level of oxidative stress; however, we don’t want more oxidative stress than what our body can cope with. * Lisa shares how running ultramarathons accelerated her ageing process, wear and tear, and inflammation.

[12:29] How to Support Autophagy and Athletic Performance? * Intermittent fasting is when people have a certain feeding window a day. After eating, mTOR switches off and AMPK is activated which allows for autophagy. * If you want to build muscle, Dr. Elena recommends eating after exercising so you can activate mTOR which helps with muscle growth. * You need to create a cycle going of mTOR and AMPK since autophagy recycles cells back into amino acids, which can help cells build new proteins. * Don’t create a feeding window that’s too narrow; you need to have enough fuel for your body. Eat chicken, meat, and foods rich in amino acids. * Make sure you're sleeping properly, as this can affect your muscle growth.

[18:30] Supplements to Support Autophagy and Longevity * You can also support autophagy through supplements like berberine. * Dr. Elena recommends adding supplements to specifically target senescence cells. Senolytics help kill senescence cells while senomorphics modify the senescence cells. * Quercetin added with Vitamin C can help kill senescence cells. By itself, quercetin can produce toxic metabolites, so it needs Vitamin C to serve as an antioxidant. * She also recommends taking their quercetin product with NAC and acetylcysteine to boost glutathione, a potent antioxidant. * Quercetin has many benefits including anti-inflammatory properties, and can be used to combat cardiovascular disease, fight seasonal allergies, and can fight cancer.

[26:51] How to Take Quercetin * Quercetin can be found naturally in fruits and vegetables like strawberries and onions. * If you’ve never taken compounds for their senescent action before, start by taking quercetin at 500 mg every day. After a month of taking it, check in on how you feel. * You can also implement detox protocols with a higher dosage of quercetin(around 2 - 2 ½ grams). If you want to implement this protocol, start with 5 days first. * Quercetin can be combined with 500mg of chlorella to boost the detoxifying reaction. * People with kidney diseases should consult with a doctor before taking quercetin.

[32:43] How NMN Can Help Athletes * In addition to mitochondrial decline, athletes can experience loss of endurance and muscle loss as they age. * Dr. Elena recommends increasing your fasting window depending on your goals. * You want more oxygenation in your tissues to preserve endurance and muscle. * Dr. Elena offers an NMN product that can increase both endurance and prevent age-related muscle loss. * This can help increase insulin sensitivity, activating longevity genes and DNA repair.

[36:37] How to Optimise NMN * NMN functions optimally when it’s attached to a methyl group. Unfortunately, our body’s methylation process also declines with age. * NMN should be paired with TMG, as it is a rich methyl donor. * When you combine NMN, TMG, and quercetin, you’ll optimise your performance and endurance.

[39:11] Longevity is Your Biological Age, Not Your Chronological Age * Many people over 40 are insulin resistant. Insulin resistance is a gateway to biological decline. * You can check your insulin resistance by checking your waist to hip ratio. * After the age of 40, it’s much easier to experience hormonal dysfunction. * We need to make a conscious effort to improve our health. Ageing can cause issues to spiral if left uncontrolled.

[42:50] Be Careful With Your Food * 80% of adults in the west are insulin resistant. * The food industry worsens the condition by offering so many processed carbohydrates. * Many people have false ideas about what a healthy diet is. You can’t have too many carbohydrates and sugar, even if they’re coming from fruits. * Cut down on carbohydrates, avoid processed foods, and take good oils.

[45:21] Start with the Basics * Start with the basics. You don’t need to add supplements immediately. * Just eat clean and good food. There’s no such thing as a universal diet. * Taking cold showers in the morning can improve hormonal balance. You can start with just 10 seconds of cold exposure. * Manage your stress levels and make sure you move regularly. * You don’t need to be perfect.

[50:47] How Some People Live to 100 * There were two hypotheses surrounding centenarians: good habits and the absence of high-risk genes. However, some centenarians were found to have bad habits and mutations for Alzheimer’s disease. * Centenarians have genes that mitigate risks from bad mutations. They also have low IGF 1 levels. * When people are young, IGF 1 can improve muscle and tissue growth, but it can be harmful when people grow older. * Centenarians’ genetic combination allowed for IGF to decrease as they grow older. Listen to the episode to learn more about how centenarians’ hormonal processes are being regulated. * Commit to regularly regulating and balancing your hormones. This process starts with clean food, caloric restriction, and exercise.

About Dr. Elena Dr. Elena Seranova is a scientist, serial entrepreneur, and business mentor. She has now founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses. She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. Dr. Elena then started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience.

Dr. Elena continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham.

Dr. Elena’s expertise in these fields led her to co-found the biotech start-up SkyLab Bio. She has written several peer-reviewed articles on autophagy.

Her latest business is NMN Bio. Her own experiences with supplements have inspired her to expand the market to include cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, the UK, and Europe.

Dr. Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.

To learn more about Dr. Elena and her work, visit NMN Bio.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Want to learn more from Dr Dom? Check out our previous episode with her: * + Episode 238 - Reverse Ageing to Live Longer and Healthier with Dr. Elena Seranova + Episode 189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + Episode 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Want to dive deeper into longevity and work out a protocol for yourself? Take the Foundations of Longevity and Life Extension Online Course by Dr Elena Seranova and Jesse Coomer * Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food by Catherine Shanahan, M.D. * Centenarians, metformin, and longevity | Nir Barzilai, M.D., Episode 204 from the Peter Attia podcast * Flavonoid Apigenin Is an Inhibitor of the NAD+ase CD38 * Therapeutic Potential of Quercetin: New Insights and Perspectives for Human Health * Visit NMN Bio to know more about NMN supplements!

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No matter what specialised diet or treatment you undergo, we are all affected by aging and oxidative stress. In the medical field, treatments are widely reactive and target specific things like infections. However, health is more than just counteracting sickness — it should also be about helping our body regenerate! There is now emerging research about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and its ability to help with sickness and improve general health. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy is not a cure-all miracle, however, it can help supply our bodies with the oxygen they need to repair and heal themselves!

In this episode, Dr Jason Sonners tackle common misconceptions about oxygen and hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Dr Jason discusses oxidative stress and what can make it positive or negative for our bodies. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy may not be widely used in hospitals, but the emerging research surrounding it shows incredible results. Take your health into your own hands and discover how hyperbaric oxygen therapy can improve your health!

If you want to learn more about how hyperbaric oxygen therapy works, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and are rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection. Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how hyperbaric oxygen therapy works as a panacea, and why it’s different from simply breathing in oxygen. 2. Discover the benefits of hyperbaric oxygen therapy and how it can serve as positive oxidative stress to our bodies. 3. Understand the future of hyperbaric oxygen therapy research and how there’s growing study into its applications and synergy with different therapies.

Resources * If you would like more information on purchasing or renting hyperbaric chambers please contact Lisa on lisa@lisatamati.com and she can advise you further. * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Hyperbaric Environment: Oxygen and Cellular Damage versus Protection * Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy - Discussion between Dr Jason Sonners & Dr Mercola from the Take Control of Your Health podcast * Oxygen Under Pressure by Dr Jason Sonners * Check out previous Pushing the Limit episodes: * + Episode 230 - Exploring Ari of the Possible with Dr Joe Dituri + Episode 227 - Fighting Cancer and Other Diseases Using the Ketogenic Diet with Dr Dominic D'Agostino + Episode 170 - Search for the Perfect Amino Protein and Why So Many of Us are Deficient with Dr David Minkoff + Episode 116 - AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part I of II: Ketogenic diet, exogenous ketones, and exercise + Episode 120 – AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part II of II: Ketosis for cancer and chronic disease, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and the effect of ketosis on female health * Connect with Dr Jason: Website I NJ HBOT Center I Youtube I Email (drjasonsonners@hbotusa.com)

Episode Highlights [02:53] Introduction to Dr Jason * Dr Jason’s background is in exercise physiology, chiropractic and nutrition. * When he got a herniated disc, he was confident in his and his wife’s abilities to help him recover. However, it did not fully heal even after 18 months. * Dr Jason then happened to attend a chiropractic conference and discovered hyperbaric chambers. He took sessions for four days and immediately saw improvement. * His experience made him want to better understand hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

[07:04] How Hyperbaric is Growing * Despite its impact and effectiveness, hyperbaric is not widely used in hospitals. * Dr Jason explains this is largely because of politics and insurance. There’s also a myth that oxygen is dangerous. * The medical profession typically uses antibiotics to heal wounds, but antibiotics focus on reducing infection risks and do not improve the healing response. * Typically, doctors and insurance companies do not bring access and awareness to hyperbaric. It’s typically the patient. * Because of a large interest in hyperbaric, Dr Jason was able to set up 30 hyperbaric clinics last year.

[14:14] How Hyperbaric Acts as a Panacea * Dr Jason emphasises that hyperbaric therapy does not cure anything, but it can help with general wellness since your cells use oxygen to make energy. * Even if you’re 100% saturated with oxygen, it does not mean that you have the oxygen needed to heal or fuel certain systems. * In the full episode, Dr Jason explains how we never have a surplus of oxygen for regeneration. * Hyperbaric therapy can create a reservoir of oxygen in our bodies and improve oxygen absorption to feed the tissues that need it. The reservoir is used over a 10-hour period. * Hyperbaric chambers put oxygen under pressure, compressing the molecules until they’re small enough to dissolve into tissues.

[20:36] How Oxygen and Pressure Works * When you go above sea level, it becomes harder to breathe. * This is not because there’s less oxygen, but because of how pressure forces oxygen into your circulation. * Every time you breathe, red blood cells pick up oxygen molecules and take them where they’re needed. * With hyperbarics, oxygen dissolves at a faster rate than the capacity of red blood cells. Oxygen then stays in the liquid. * Red blood cells cannot bring oxygen to damaged tissues, however, hyperbaric allows them access as it produces an excess of oxygen in the liquid.

[23:01] Short-term and Long-term Benefits of Hyperbarics * Our cells use food to create NAD and oxidized NAD becomes the fuel for our cells. * Hyperbarics helps increase oxidation and, therefore, more fuel or ATP production. * Long-term benefits of hyperbaric include immune system upregulation, stem cell release, angiogenesis, and rebuilding of blood vessels.

[25:48] Is There Such a Thing as Getting Out Too Quickly? * When divers get out of water too quickly, the danger is not from the oxygen but from nitrogen. Too much nitrogen can block blood vessels and choke arteries. * The level of nitrogen depends on how deep a hyperbaric chamber is. However, most hyperbaric environments do not contain nitrogen. * Dr Jason shares that leaving a hyperbaric chamber makes the body think it’s becoming hypoxic, but it’s not actual hypoxia. * This state drives the angiogenesis growth factors.

[30:39] Differences Between Short and Long Hyperbaric Sessions * When working with athletes, Dr Jason uses short 20–30 minute sessions to give a boost. * The hyperbaric chamber puts you in a parasympathetic state in which your body slows down, relaxes, and heals. * Doing hyperbaric at night can help people sleep better. * Dr Jason shares that around 30% of people get stimulated instead after doing hyperbaric, so he recommends these people do hyperbaric in the morning.

[32:50] What Can Hyperbaric Help With? * Dr Jason shares that hyperbaric research is still in progress and may not provide in-depth insights into certain conditions. * Hyperbaric therapy works for necrotizing fasciitis and gangrene. Hyperbaric therapy helps to reduce microbe activity and breaks down biofilms that anaerobic organisms. * Conceptually, hyperbaric therapy would also work on other anaerobic infections like H Pylori. * It also helps white blood cells kill both bacterial and viral infections. Hyperbaric therapy can also help with neuropathy, strokes, and TBI. * There is still little research on its effect on ALS and MS, but Dr Jason notes that since it’s an ongoing process, hyperbaric therapy can only work if it’s done aggressively.

[37:48] When is Oxidative Stress Beneficial or Detrimental? * Oxidative stress is the reason we’re dying, but it also helps us. * Everything requires balance and reactive oxygen species help promote cell turnover. * There needs to be enough damage to stimulate healing. * While oxidation from the outside environment destroys our bodies, oxidation from hyperbaric therapy increases mitochondrial performance. * As people get used to hyperbaric sessions, they can build a tolerance to oxidation from the outside environment.

[42:48] The Importance of Protocols * Healthy people can use hyperbarics periodically as it’s relatively safe. * For people with serious health concerns, it’s important to have a good protocol to match different therapies together.

[46:28] How Does Molecular Hydrogen Work with Hyperbarics? * Molecular hydrogen is not an antioxidant, but it can act like one. * When oxidizing, our bodies sometimes experience incomplete combustion and create superoxide or free radicals. * Using molecular hydrogen mixes excess oxygen with excess hydrogen to reduce free radical production.

[49:41] Can Hyperbarics Help with COVID-19? * There’s been a huge interest in hyperbarics to help manage COVID-19 since it can help improve oxygen saturation. * Viruses need to be contained by our immune system. We can typically live with viruses in our body without them expressing. * COVID-19 is a new type of infection so it takes longer for people’s immune systems to get it under control. * Other dormant infections can surface since our immune systems are so depleted. * Hyperbarics can help refuel that immune system.

[56:29] Importance of Synergy * Senescence cells can help protect the DNA against oxidative stress. * Combining hyperbaric therapy with other autophagy-related therapies like fasting and keto can create a synergistic effect.

[1:00:15] Future of Hyperbarics and Epigenetics Research * Dr Jason has written a book and uses his YouTube channel to help dispel myths about hyperbarics. * He shares that most research focuses on high-pressure hyperbarics, but his practice shows that people see benefits at all pressures. * There is growing research comparing benefits at different pressures. * What you do now is going to affect the next generation. While intergenerational toxicity exists, you can also re-teach your cells to express a healthier version of themselves.

7 Powerful Quotes “Just like anything else, you need to know how to use [oxygen], how to operate it properly, how to keep it within a safe means and make it effective.”

“This might not sound fabulous, but [oxygen] doesn't cure anything. It just helps with so many things.”

“Not only do we have to exercise properly, but the framework of alignment, and posture, and all the pieces that predispose the body to breaking down prematurely, and where chiropractic fit the model of really trying to improve that story.”

“I can only hold my breath for a couple minutes and if I can get a little bit more oxygen, maybe I could heal a little bit faster. To some extent, it's that simple.”

“If we make really great changes, and then we decide to have children at some point, we may not have to pass down the intergenerational toxicity.”

“Every virus you've ever had, you'll always have. They live contained, so to speak, and as long as our immune system can keep things in quarantine that way, we can typically live with these viruses in our body without actually expressing.”

“Molecular hydrogen is technically not an antioxidant, but it has antioxidant-like capacity.”

About Dr Jason Dr Jason Sonners, DC, DIBAK, DCBCN, CCWP, CHP is a certified hyperbaric practitioner and is the Clinic Director of NJ HBOT and HBOT USA. He combines hyperbaric oxygen therapy, exercise, nutrition, and detoxification programs to help support patients through a variety of conditions including autoimmune and neurological conditions, autism, allergies, cancer, and many others.

Passionate about spreading the effectiveness of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, Dr Jason wrote the book, Oxygen Under Pressure, and regularly uploads to the HBOT USA YouTube channel.

Learn more about Dr Jason and his work through his website, NJ HBOT Center, and Youtube.

You can also contact him through email (drjasonsonners@hbotusa.com).

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know the basics of hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Fear can be debilitating. It's natural that we all experience fear and it's part of being human but if we don't want to be limited in our potential by fear, if we want to push outside our existing boundaries and expand our horizons and if we want to to be high performance and to bring our best when it counts then it pays to learn the strategies you need to control your physiology better and how to reframe the stories running in your head. In this episode mental toughness coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff give you their best insights into how to stop fear ruling your life and how they integrate the tools and techniques into their lives.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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When faced with a medical condition, most people either pay someone else to improve their lives or develop a fatalistic or defeatist view. But you have the power to change your life and improve your health. You can reprogram your mind for a healthy body and fulfilling life.

In this episode, Dr. Bruce Lipton discusses how conscious and subconscious programs dictate our health and how you can reprogram them to your advantage. He also touches on topics including the current healthcare crisis around the world and spirituality.

If you’d like to learn about reprogramming your subconscious for your happiness and a healthy body, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover the power of epigenetic programming and how it works. 2. Learn the three ways to reprogram your mind for a healthy body. 3. Find out how the healthcare industry could be negatively affecting your health.

Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up Our epigenetics health programme is all about aligning fitness, lifestyle, nutrition, and cognitive performance to an individual’s particular genes. To learn more, visit https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED COACHING PLANS FOR RUNNERS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, and Run Longer – Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit training into your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but struggle with motivation or injuries.

Do you want to beat your time from last year, or finish at the front of the pack? Do you want to run your first 5-km, or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised and customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people to look outside the box – people who are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com. We can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you are dealing with adversity, are facing a big challenge ahead, want to take your performance to the next level,or want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book, Relentless, chronicles how my mother and I defied the odds. After an aneurysm left my mum, Isobel, with massive brain damage at age 74, the medical professionals told me there was no hope for any quality of life again. I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to her full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (or NAD+) is a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells. It also regulates metabolism.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative, NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide), which can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and in the liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism, and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party-tested NAD+ boosting supplements. Start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of ageing and is designed to boost NAD+ levels. Products are manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sportswear jewellery collection, 'Fierce,’ visit https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:24] Stem Cells and Epigenetics * We lose millions of cells every minute. We get new cells from stem cells. * Dr Bruce Lipton was cloning stem cells in 1967. * Genetic determinism is false, as genes are merely blueprints. Your mind is the one that activates and modifies the genes. * Genes do not cause diseases; instead, they correlate with them.

[13:56] Genes vs. Consciousness * Believing in genetic determinism can make you feel like a powerless victim. * Epigenetics is about controlling your genes and knowing that consciousness is creating disease. Changing your biology and behaviour can change your life. * Before you can control your genes, you need to learn how epigenetics works and how to do it. * Our brains are computers; you need suitable programming.

[19:35] The Power of Programs * Remember that you have the power to exert control over your physiological systems and attain a healthy body. * Thinking, which takes up 95% of your life, redirects the focus of consciousness inside your head and allows autopilot programming to take over. * Your programs determine your life and mentality, so pay attention to them.

[29:34] Three Ways to Reprogram For a Healthy Body * Our two minds ⁠— the conscious and subconscious ⁠— function and learn differently. * Putting your brain into theta using hypnosis can help you change a program. * You need practice and repetition to create a solid program. * Energy psychology is about looking at your life to find out your programs and changing the subconscious programs.

[46:57] Spirituality Frequency * If a television breaks, the broadcast still keeps going. * Your body is the television, and you're the broadcast. In a sense, this means that you cannot die. * Listen to the full episode for research on cellular electrical activity and its correlation with mothers and their children!

[51:25] What Happens After Death * We can keep our minds conscious about what happens in the world, but we can tune into intuition so that the deceased become part of the field of information. * Communicating with the deceased at an intuitive level is possible.

[52:25] How Fear Affects Programs * The issues that plague the world, such as pollution and war, are created by programs. * We make antibodies before we're even born. Antigens stimulate the immune response and are what our bodies use to identify pathogens. * If you have a healthy body, stop looking for bad signs or symptoms. Looking or the symptoms of a disease can create them. * Fear causes immune system shutdown, vulnerability, and conflict.

[1:05:17] Negative Impacts of Corporations * A corporation’s first and foremost rule is to make money for shareholders. * Pharmaceutical companies only care about making money, robbing people of their chance at a healthy body. * Science has no more freedom because corporations control the flow of research. * If you want to hear more about how big healthcare corporations and pharmaceutical companies exploit people for profit, listen to the full episode!

[1:11:09] Does Medicine Cure or Kill? * An article by Dr Barbara Starfield, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2000, revealed that medicine is the third leading cause of death in the US. * Iatrogenic illness refers to illness caused by medical treatment. * A few years ago, an article in the British Medical Journal came up with the same results. * Both prescription and illegal drugs kill people every year. * We can't even trust vitamins because they're being regulated as drugs.

7 Powerful Quotes

‘Here's the point, most everybody out here has been programmed by the belief that genes provide the character of our lives, that they came from our parents and they determine our traits. And if we don't like our traits, you can't change the genes.’

‘How you see the world will determine which version of protein will be created from a gene, like a wiser realm.’

‘Then epigenetics says that my consciousness is creating this. And therefore if I change my consciousness, I change my biology, change my behaviour, I can do anything with it.’

‘Consciousness is you. Your specific identity, your spiritual domain, you, here. The rest of the brain back here is called subconscious, below conscious.’

‘You weren't there for most of the programming. It started even before you were born. And it went a whole year from zero to one — you weren't there. They went from one to two who are in therapy, you're getting programmed every day.’

‘So when the TV breaks, did the broadcast stop? The answer's no. How do you know I said, we'll get another TV, plug it in, turn it on and tune it to the station back on again. And here comes apart because this is called reincarnation, you cannot die.’

‘Evolution is community coming together in harmony. And today's world is the antithesis of evolution and evolution as one separate the world and then make polarised groups charging each other go well then there's no unity.’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Dopesick * Is US Health Really the Best in the World? by Dr Barbara Starfield * Check out Dr Bruce Lipton’s books: * + The Biology of Belief + The Honeymoon Effect + Spontaneous Evolution * Connect with Dr Bruce: Website

About Dr Bruce Dr Bruce Lipton is a renowned stem cell biologist and leader in bridging the gap between science and spirit. He received his PhD from the University of Virginia in Charlottesville and joined the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine in 1973. His studies on stem cells gave rise to epigenetics.

He is the bestselling author of The Biology of Belief and recipient of the 2009 Goi Peace Award. As a highly sought after keynote speaker and workshop presenter, he's been a guest speaker on hundreds of TV and radio shows and a keynote presenter for national and international conferences. Many people have transformed their lives by applying the principles he discusses in lectures. He is one of the leading voices of new biology.

Learn more about Dr Bruce’s work on his website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise their health and happiness by reprogramming their subconscious. Everyone can have a healthy body — it just takes the right programming.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Goal Setting, we all know and are told almost daily to set your goals, if you don't have goals to aim for you won't have a chance of hitting them. Ok, but what next. How do we break down huge hairy audacious goals into bite size pieces, what are SMART goals, how does our brains RAS filter work, how do we stay motivated when the going gets tough.

Neil and Lisa Co-Founders of Running Hot Coaching take you on a deep dive into the world of goal setting and just how you can make sure you nail those long held dreams without quitting along the way.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

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The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

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The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Off the top of your head, think about the healthy foods you eat regularly. Does your diet contain seed oils and carbs? How about protein-rich and fatty food?

There are a lot of misconceptions about what foods are healthy or not. Many of these beliefs are further perpetuated by the media, big food companies and even nutrition advice from the government. For instance, did you know that “heart-healthy foods” with omega-6 are highly inflammatory and that high cholesterol levels can help in healing? The key is to find what works best for your body, but it’s not always easy with misinformation so rampant.

In this episode, Richard Smith discusses how the ketogenic diet has changed his life. Not only did it reverse his health issues significantly, but it also made him into a bodybuilding champion. He also explains how “healthy” foods are doing the exact opposite of what we’re led to believe. Whether or not you wish to start a ketogenic diet, it’s vital to go back to the basics of nutrition and learn what is harmful and helpful to your body.

If you want to learn more about the ketogenic diet for a healthier and stronger body, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how the ketogenic diet can benefit both athletes and non-athletes. 2. Discover how your perspective on “healthy” foods may be wrong and harmful. 3. Understand how to get back to the basics of health and nutrition.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [02:47] Richard’s Background * Richard used to be clinically obese and diabetic in his 20s. He also suffered from chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, migraines, and arthritic pains. * He tried many lifestyles and diets but lacked proper knowledge of nutrition and did not understand what foods are healthy. * Richard used to take different medications, but these increased his anxiety and headache. * He also tried cutting off bread from his diet. It helped him lose 28 pounds in 4 weeks. His friend then introduced him to the ketogenic diet.

[08:04] How the Ketogenic Diet Helped Richard * Richard struggled with transitioning to the ketogenic diet. His headaches worsened, and he had an intense sugar craving. * He persevered, and the ketogenic diet changed his life. He lost 107 pounds in 12 months, reversed diabetes, and erased his migraines. * People have a misconception that cholesterol is bad fuel and people can’t live without carbohydrates. * Yet, there are many scientific studies that state otherwise.

[13:33] How Richard Started Keto Pro * The truth about “healthy” food is the opposite of what we are usually taught. * The insight was so shocking that Richard wanted to share his learnings through coaching. He quit his job and started Keto Pro. * Richard further developed his understanding of the ketogenic diet through research and self-experimentation.

[19:57] Different People Need Different Things * Genetic differences can dictate what is important. For example, Lisa shares how her Maori and Pacific Island friends are better suited for low-carb diets. * What works for someone else may not work for you. Be open-minded and constantly experiment to find what suits your body best. * If you want to change your health, you need to start with the basics.

[22:23] How to Start a Ketogenic Diet * First, cut off grains. Second, drop vegetable and seed oils. * Grains play a role in developing autoimmune diseases. They can release lectin that makes our antibodies attack proteins in our body. * Richard recommends removing all grains. This includes bread, pasta, rice, and cereals. Although white rice is low in lectin, it can be easy to over-consume. * Rice is also high in carbohydrates, which can make you insulin resistant.

[25:45] Why You Should Reduce Carbohydrates * Excess carbohydrates can create metabolic dysregulation. * Insulin resistance happens over some time. * Carbohydrate consumption can be different for everyone. If you’re insulin resistant, reduce your consumption. * Most people are taught the caloric model for healthy eating. This does not account for nuances and micronutrients. Listen to the full episode to learn more!

[29:38] How the Ketogenic Diet can Help Athletes * Carbohydrate-dependent athletes can find it hard to run long marathons since they need to refuel around every 20 minutes. * Meanwhile, fat-adapted athletes can run 100k without needing to refuel and worrying about electrolytes. * Lectins tend to bind to insulin receptors and take five times more storage than fat. * Lectins can also prevent the absorption of other nutrients, which can easily lead to overeating since we need more nutrients. * Ketogenic diets can not only help with weight loss but can also build lean muscle. To prove this, Richard joined physique competitions despite his anxiety.

[42:04] How to Utilise Fat and Protein * Richard shares that even with his poor genes, the ketogenic diet helped him gain the physique to become a bodybuilding champion. * Carbohydrates do not grow muscles. Instead, it’s the co-ingestion of fat with protein. * A good starting point is 70% fat and 25% protein to induce a ketogenic state. However, Richard recommends increasing proteins after 2–3 weeks. * There is still a lot of fear surrounding protein in the ketogenic community. Proteins do not pull people away from the ketogenic state. * Increasing your protein intake can also make the diet more sustainable.

[46:21] Should We Cycle In and Out of Ketosis? * Maintaining a ketogenic state helps Richard more than cycling in and out of ketosis. * Since his body is keto-adapted, he can process a large volume of carbohydrates and maintain a ketogenic state. * Over time, the ketogenic diet can train your body to become metabolically flexible.

[48:56] Importance of Exogenous Ketones * Beginners can use exogenous ketones to get into ketosis easier. This can also aid in the transition. * However, Richard does not recommend combining exogenous ketones with a high-carbohydrate diet. * Exogenous ketones can boost mental clarity and recovery during training. It can also help people who suffered from brain injuries, aneurysms, strokes, and concussions.

[55:14] Rethink Healthy Food * Inflammation is a sign that you’re doing something wrong. * Your lifestyle may be the root cause of your health problems. Consider possible lifestyle changes before resorting to medication and surgery. * Dig deeper into nutrition; the food that we think is healthy may really be * High cholesterol levels and protein levels can help with healing and recovery. In the full episode, Richard shares how he healed from surgery 7 weeks earlier than expected.

[1:01:26] What Oils Should We Avoid? * Sunflower, safflower, canola, and peanut oils come from seeds. The process to create them uses chemicals like hexane that can damage the body. * Reducing saturated fats and replacing them with seed and vegetable oils can increase your risk of death. * Cholesterol is essential for us to function. In fact, you can find cholesterol in every cell in your body. * Richard consumes tallow, lard, ghee, avocado oil, coconut oil, and olive oil. * He also recommends eating fish rather than fish oils for omega-3.

[1:05:54] Back to Basics * Go back to the basics and cut out processed food. * Understand how food and nutrition work. * While restricting sugar is good, remember that all carbohydrates break down into sugar. * Don’t underestimate the gut-brain connection. Poor gut health can easily lead to depression and anxiety. * Age does not correlate with size. If you have a lot of visceral fat, that’s a sign of metabolic dysregulation.

[1:16:41] Introducing Keto Pro * Richard shares the importance of research and development, rather than marketing, for Keto Pro. * His products have the world’s highest purity rating at 99.9%. * Keto Pro also offers electrolytes mixed with molybdenum, selenium, and aster xantham. * They use all-natural ingredients and without artificial sweeteners. * Richard is committed to serving the best product possible to help people. Find out more about Keto Pro’s products in the full episode.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Previous Pushing the Limits podcast episodes: * + Episode 189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + Episode 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Ancel Keys and the lipid hypothesis: early breakthroughs to current management of dyslipidemia (BCMJ) * Insulin vs Glucagon: The relevance of dietary protein by Dr Benjamin Bikman * BioDiet by David Harper and Dale Drewery * Coingestion of protein with carbohydrate during recovery from endurance exercise stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in humans (NCBI) * Sodium and health - concordance and controversy (BMJ) * The Undiscussed Side Effects of Birth Control Pills * Get your premium exogenous ketones at Keto Pro. You can also access educational videos about keto here! * Interested in Richard’s full story and before/after pictures? Find out more here. * Connect with Richard: Twitter | Instagram

7 Powerful Quotes “I tried every sort of diet and lifestyle that you can think of and nothing seemed to work, almost to the point you had thrown in the towel and given up. But I hated the way I looked. I hated the fact I didn't have energy. It didn't sit right with me; it didn't seem normal.”

“This whole reeducation piece — this is what we're trying to teach people that these foods are causing inflammation and insulin resistance. One of the factors that many overlook is that people look at the caloric model: it's X amount of calories — calories in, calories out. “

“I don't want that food. But if I do, I'm willing to accept the consequences today because tomorrow I'm going to be backing in strict and avoiding migraines and seed oils. But ketones — as you say — a fantastic way to help induce a ketogenic state.”

“A lot of people will ask the question, ‘Well, I've had my bloods done. I'm not diabetic, therefore, I'm not insulin-resistant.’ Insulin resistance happens over a long time… But insulin rises to continue to keep us healthy and drive these nutrients into the cells. Insulin will rise over time, and it'll continue to raise until the point where it can't raise any more. “

“But for me, it comes down to the core foundation, and I think, comes back to reeducating about the effects of these carbohydrates and seed oils. I think as long as you're mindful, when you reeducate someone, you're arming them with a tool, and you're giving them the means to make that decision.”

“I've done it the right way. It's just difficult to market a product, especially. We're a small company and keep it within. The UK isn't as big as it is in the US and the rest of the world. So I think it comes down to reeducating people and explaining that there's a lot of common misconceptions about keto and the cholesterol ketoacidosis.”

“I keep going back to why I started to do what I do, and it was in order to help people.”

About Richard Smith Richard Smith is a nutritionist and professional athlete who became a British Champion. He used to suffer from pre-diabetes, kidney stones, high blood pressure, high glucose levels, and many illnesses. He took various medications but none of them work, forcing him to take a full pack of paracetamol every single day. Eventually, he tried the ketogenic diet, and it changed his life forever.

The ketogenic lifestyle reversed his illnesses. Seeing the benefits of the lifestyle, Richard created Keto Pro to give people access to affordable and high-quality ketogenic products.

Learn more about the ketogenic lifestyle on Keto Pro. You can also connect with Richard on Twitter and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how to optimise their health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Lisa deep dives into your top rules to live by to achieve your dreams, visions and goals, to integrate into your psyche. They are a blueprint for achieving what you want in life on your terms. Learn why failure is only a feedback loop, why the naysayers in life can be the biggest blessings you have on your road to success.

Why you should never subordinate yourself to the dreams and wishes of others and how to define your own values and hence your own dreams and goals.

Why setting "Fantasy" goals will not lead to success but to disappointment and why having a higher purpose is the ticket for getting more out of yourself.

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Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Most of us go about our lives, assuming that the changes we may feel in our bodies are simply signs of aging. When we’re sick, we look for treatments and quick fixes. A more proactive approach to your health could save you from the financial and emotional distress that comes with a scary diagnosis.

In this episode, Dr Charles Meakin discusses how Care Oncology has provided early detection services, along with alternative and additional treatments for cancer patients. He talks about the benefits of disease prevention, particularly cancer prevention. He also shares the six fundamentals for better health and encourages us to live healthier, even if we don't suffer from diseases.

Read the episode if you want to learn more about cancer and disease prevention through better life practices!

Here are three reasons you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how Care Oncology is providing accessible options for cancer detection and treatment. Find out the four drugs on which the company is focusing its efforts. 2. Discover Dr Charles' six fundamentals for better health. 3. Learn to see threats as opportunities and be able to stay consistent.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition, and mental performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit into training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic program that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the world's greatest science and health minds? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, and we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have an enormous challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book, Relentless, chronicles the inspiring journey of how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultra-running adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa's Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting-edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and the liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism, and overall health to live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and is rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Aging We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy aging journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-aging nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with groundbreaking science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels—manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Aging: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My 'Fierce' Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce,' go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:45] Dr Charles' and Care Oncology's Background * Charles has worked in oncology for 30 years. He started working at a big hospital in Charlotte, but pivoted after becoming legally blind. * He eventually discovered Care Oncology, a company that applies metabolic strategies for cancer treatment. * Care Oncology was started by Robin Bannister, a pharmacist and drug developer. His wife had developed stage-four breast cancer and had exhausted all treatment options. * Robin selected four drugs commonly used for non-cancer disorders but were found to affect cancer. * Robin selected four drugs based on human data, safety, non-overlapping effects, and their benefits for other chronic conditions.

[08:46] Care Oncology's Approach * Care Oncology uses metformin, atorvastatin, doxycycline, and mebendazole. The company kept to the dosage of the four drugs within a specific range. * Additional drugs, like Prozac and oxaloacetate, also proved helpful along with the metabolic approach. * Over the years, cancer research has focused more on the somatic mutation theory than the metabolic theory. * The metabolic approach to cancer is slowly becoming more widespread. * Even Dr Weinberg, who championed the hallmarks of cancer, added three more hallmarks that are purely metabolic.

[16:52] Diet and Future of the Metabolic Approach * From a somatic perspective, diet is not very important to curing cancer; however, food does affect cancer. * The standard American diet of proteins and fruits and grains can cause issues for cancer patients. * Care Oncology has recently merged with Stage Zero Life Sciences for early detection. They perform blood biopsies and are looking into the RNA expression of white blood cells. * Early detection technology is slowly becoming more available. * As the company expands, they intend to add various types of cancers to their treatment list. . Learn about Care Oncology's testing process by listening to the full episode.

[30:38] What Care Oncology Prioritises * Charles shares that Care Oncology prioritises the markers with the most impact, as nuanced tests are more expensive. * The death rate from cancer may decrease, but the cancer rate is increasing. * He shares how one in three women who get breast cancer become bankrupt after treatments. * Care Oncology wants to reverse this experience by providing cheaper early detection methods through blood biopsies. Their process includes follow-ups and discussions. * Their State Zero tests are currently available only in the US, but the company hopes to expand over time.

[36:28] Why Early Detection is Important * Tests can predict patterns before cancer physically manifests. * It's important to get regular physicals, lifestyle checks, and screenings every 18 months to 2 years. * The earlier you detect cancer, the higher the survival rate. . Early detection can also mean less expensive. * According to Charles, colon cancer detected in stage one has a 90% chance of being cured. However, the later the cancer is detected, the lower the chance of being cured. * It costs more to fix something than to prevent something.

[43:11] There's No One Treatment for Everyone * Charles shares that his best outcomes were when he customised treatments based on patients' needs. * Unfortunately, cancer treatment is often too focused on following guidelines. * It’s important for patients to have hope that they can get better. * Unfortunately, physicians have little time to fully engage with patients. * There is no “right way” to treat cancer. What works for one patient may not work for others. * Talk to your doctors about what you’re putting in your body. This also applies to the vaccine and diet.

[56:12] Balance is Key * It’s important to be aware of your sugar intake. A patient’s BMI can have an impact on the success of treatments. * Charles recommends intermittent fasting with a diet of animal protein, healthy fats, and low fructose fruits. Couple this diet with micro-exercises before and after meals. * Our muscles are the biggest organ in our body, and they can act as metabolic neutralizers. * Make sure your meals are balanced. Remember to consider your sleep and mood.

[1:01:48] Find Opportunities * Everything can be seen as an opportunity to learn more about yourself and to grow. * See things as a challenge instead of a threat. * Not everyone has a growth mindset, but people will ‌develop this by identifying their purpose.

[1:06:32] Dr Mekin’s Recommendations: BEGSIS * First, nostril breathing. * Second, eat only real foods made up of fats, proteins, and low carbohydrates. Keep yourself hydrated. * Get moving to maintain and enhance your functionality. * Sleep. Make sure you recover and have your rhythms in order. * Have intent and always have a mission bigger than yourself. * Be social and involve yourself with others. Social isolation is a predictor of demise.

[1:10:37] Focus on Fundamentals * With everything happening in the world, it's easy to focus on the negative. * Remember to be in the moment and look for the beauty in life. * Get back to the core fundamentals.

[1:13:33] Keep Testing Yourself * Not everyone can do everything at the same time. Therefore, doctors need to help people prioritise what will work for them. * Charles shares that he's very proud of Care Oncology's work in cancer treatment. * Despite being 63, he likes to climb mountains annually to challenge himself. * Charles details how he puts himself in uncomfortable situations in the full episode.

[1:19:21] Future of Medicine * Charles shares that the next ten years may change many things in medicine. * Look into the research. Clinical practice is often behind the latest developments. * Stay persistent and take care of yourself. * Twenty years ago, people would die one year after losing their vitality and independence. Now, they tend to live up to 12 years. They may be alive, but they're often unhappy.

7 Powerful Quotes.' 'A healthy person has multiple wishes and ideas while a sick person only has one wish — that's to get better again. Early spending of the dedication of time and money pays off.'

'A lower dose metabolic protocol with prescription drugs and supplements, and lifestyle coaching prevent the development of disease or cancer.'

'If you find cancer in stage one, you have a greater than 90% cure, which is surgery at most. Then if you find it in stage four, the cure rate drops down to the mid-teens, then you're never off treatment, and you will spend a fortune.'

'...to eat anything. That is the worst advice that you can give a cancer patient.'

"We're evolutionarily designed to eat primarily fats and proteins with some seasonal carbohydrates. So that's what 99% of our biology was based on.'

'Sometimes, an ounce of prevention could save you financially and, actually, health.'

'A lot of times, there's a silver lining to some of these obstacles put in our way.'

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer Is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms by Travis Christofferson * Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators is Trying to Transform our Health Care System by Travis Christofferson * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Listen to our previous episodes: * + Episode 229: Cancer Treatments: Starve Cancer, Be Free From It with Jane McLelland + Episode 227: Fighting Cancer and Other Diseases Using The Ketogenic Diet with Dr Dominic D'Agostino * Care Oncology: Website I Facebook * AVRT Now * Connect with Dr Charles: LinkedIn * Want to learn more from Dr Charles? Check out Coach it Forward Chuck

About Dr Charles Dr Charles Meakin is the US Medical Director at Care Oncology Clinic with over 40 years of experience in healthcare, eastern philosophies, fitness predictors of longevity, and happiness. In 2018, he retired after 30 years in radiation oncology practice due to a worsening retinal condition. He then joined Care Oncology and launched his charity health and wellness coaching.

Want to learn more about Charles? Check out Care Oncology and Coach it Forward, Chuck.

You can also find him on LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to prevent diseases like cancer.

If you have any other queries, you can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits, Lisa.

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When we optimise our performance, we usually think of the basics of training, sleep, and food. Yet, we often miss one important aspect: breathing. If you have ever felt brain fog, a racing mind or insomnia, breathing may be the solution you need. In this episode, Patrick McKeown joins us to explain how mouth breathing can harm our health and performance, and many people still do this unconsciously. He shares that we need to transition to nasal breathing to help us breathe better. The change may be difficult at first, but Patrick encourages us through steps to help guide this change.

If you want to know more about the science behind nasal breathing, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimizing your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition, and mind performance to your particular genes, go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching. You can also join our free live webinar on runners' warm-up to learn how a structured and specific warm-up can make a massive difference in how you run.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to

https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how mouth breathing can affect many aspects of your life. 2. Discover the power of nasal breathing and how it can help improve your sleep and concentration. 3. Understand the steps for transitioning to nasal breathing.

Resources * Follow Patrick's Amazon page for updates on his latest book, The Breathing Cure. * In the meantime, you can Patrick’s The Oxygen Advantage! * INCLUDE LINK TO EPISODE WITH JAMES NESTOR ONCE IT’S OUT * Why We Sleep: Unlocking The Power Of Sleep And Dreams by Matthew Walker * Breath: The New Science Of A Lost Art by James Nestor * BOLT Method to test your breathing efficiency. * Check out Buteyko Clinic and The Oxygen Advantage for breathing tools mentioned in this episode!

Episode Highlights [2:16] Patrick’s Journey Into Breathing * Patrick shared how he was a chronic mouth breather and had asthma growing up. This condition got worse in time and affected his concentration and studies. * Chronic mouth breathing affects 25 - 50% of children, yet the medical industry is not doing anything to address it. * Patrick's personal experience and struggles made him realise that no one is teaching how to breathe correctly. * Breathing is fundamental to attention and sleep. * Listen to the full episode for an overview of how breathing can affect our development and life!

[13:35] The Importance Of Nasal Breathing * Transitioning to nasal breathing can increase oxygen pressure by 10%. * Mouth breathing is often tied to chest breathing, which is faster. Faster, shallower breaths cause the body to think it is in danger. * Nasal breathing can help conditions such as asthma, COVID-19 recovery, sarcoidosis, anxiety, depression, functional movement and more. * Adults usually breath four to six litres of air during rest. Asthmatics report breathing as much as 10 to 15 litres. * Approximately 75% of the people with anxiety have dysfunctional breathing.

[21:49] Breathing And Stress * Stress is always accompanied by faster and upper chest breathing. * Faster breathing causes us to think we’re in danger. * Light, slow, and deep breathing should be taught to people with anxiety and PTSD. * Correct, functional breathing shouldn't be used in five-minute chunks, but instead, be how we breathe every day.

[25:59] Breathing And Sleep * The problem of snoring lies in mouth breathing. * Nasal breathing helps address sleep apnea. * Roughly 50% of the adult population sleeps with their mouth open. * If your mouth is dry in the morning, you may be sleeping with your mouth open. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the importance of breathing for better sleep.

[33:13] How To Remedy Mouth Breathing * Patrick recommends taping the mouth to encourage nasal breathing. * Dentists are in a good position to spot mouth breathing. * Patrick notes that facial abnormalities are a mark of mouth breathing. * Mouth breathing in young children and babies can be corrected early with the proper techniques.

[45:06] Effects On Facial Development * Anthropologists have concluded that we had straight teeth all the time. * However, over the years, eating soft food has changed our jaws and teeth. * These changes led to the overcrowding of teeth and dental decay. It even affects our breathing! * It’s still being questioned whether small mouths cause mouth breathing or vice versa. Regardless, we need to address this problem immediately. * Listen to the full episode for more information on how facial development has changed over the years.

[56:55] Transition To Nasal Breathing * As adults, we can still influence the shape of our face. * Transitioning to nasal breathing may be difficult at first, but remember that it will be better for you in the long run. * You can test your breathing by using the BOLT Method * . * Nasal breathing, in conjunction with other techniques, can drastically improve physical performance in athletes.

[1:07:55] Building Foundations * Wim Hof has been vital in raising awareness of breathwork. * Patrick notes that the Wim Hof method is a stressor exercise, not functional breathing. * Before learning these high-level breathing techniques, it’s more important to get functional breathing right first. * Functional breathing is how you breathe throughout the day. * Listen to the full episode for the discussion on building your breathing foundation.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Society does demand us to concentrate. Concentration is demanded of us. But nobody teaches us how.’

‘The other thing about mouth breathing is typically chest breathing is activating the upper chest, and it's also causing faster and harder breathing. And physiologically, this is putting us into a fight or flight response.’

‘When I see people coming in with a racing mind, and I look at their breathing, I very often see faster breathing, just a little bit faster. It's not that the person is having a panic attack, it's just their breathing is a little bit faster. Maybe the respiratory rate is 16 breaths per minute, plus, they have upper chest breathing, they can often have irregular breathing patterns.’

‘If we get stressed today, our breathing gets faster, harder... that's telling the brain we are in danger. So how do we change and switch this off? Well, when we start practising to breathe, breathe slow, and breathe deep. And the acronym that I use is LSD. So light, slow, and deep breathing. The feedback then is from the body back to the brain. And the brain is interpreting it that the body is in a safe environment because the body would not be breathing light, slow and deep if there was danger.’

‘If you have somebody who is breathing harder and faster, our typical person with asthma is a prime example. And it's known that as asthma severity increases, so does obstructive sleep apnea. People with asthma are tired.’

‘We know that 50% of the adult population have their mouth opened during sleep... so if the mouth is dry in the morning, you're not likely to be waking up feeling great.’

‘We're changing breathing patterns but we're not necessarily changing the behaviour of nasal breathing and mouth breathing... I need you to start taping your mouth during the day... and it was a total game-changer. This was really forming that habit of nose breathing.’

About Patrick Patrick McKeown is a leading authority in the field of breathing. His clinical training was built at Trinity College Dublin in Russia. He was later accredited as a breathing coach by renowned physician Dr Konstantin Buteyko in 2002. Patrick's work focuses on breathing for performance and sleep. He has published several research studies in international medical journals, and top literary publishers have published his work.

In addition to his research, Patrick is also the breathing advisor to the Extreme Performance Training XPT program - created by American big-wave surfer, Laird Hamilton - and has taught more than 700 breathing instructors across 45 countries. He has also trained elite military Special Forces, SWAT, Olympic coaches and athletes. He also regularly appears on popular podcasts including London Real, Ben Greenfield, Ben Pakulski, Warrior Souls and Bulletproof.

Excited for the latest release from Patrick? You can follow him at Buteyko Clinic and Oxygen Advantage. Follow his Amazon page for updates on his latest book, The Breathing Cure.

You can also follow Patrick on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Even professional athletes aren’t immune to cramping and dehydration. If you constantly suffer from these, your performance can be sorely affected. It’s understandably frustrating, but it doesn’t have to be — as long as you know your body well and how to optimise fuel and hydration to enhance your athletic performance.

In this episode, sports scientist Andy Blow discusses the proper way to fuel and hydrate your body for peak athletic performance. We disuss sweat tests and how they can help you balance your intake of fluid and electrolytes. Andy shares the importance of carb fueling, along with the benefits of intermittent fasting and the keto diet. Lastly, Andy explains what his company, Precision Fuel & Hydration, does and its commitment to helping athletes achieve peak health and performance.

If you want to learn more about proper fueling and hydration, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand your body’s needs for peak athletic performance. 2. Learn the amount of carbs, fluid, and electrolytes your body needs. 3. Find out how to curb gut issues while hydrating.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of ageing while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:51] Andy’s Background * Andy was a full-time athlete and studied sports science at university. * Bringing together his degree and athletic background, he built his company, Precision Fuel & Hydration. * Andy participated in triathlons and aimed for the 2004 Athens Olympics. His performance sweet-spot was races over an hour and less than five or six hours.

[09:11] The Story Behind Precision Fuel & Hydration * During races, Andy performed well in cool conditions. * He noticed that he didn’t do well in hot weather. He had a high sweat rate, which led to cramps and low sodium levels. * After getting a sweat test, he discovered that he was losing too much salt through sweat. * So, he dialled up the sodium and reduced his fluid intake. The electrolyte dosage is crucial for optimum performance. * Andy started Precision Fuel & Hydration by sweat testing people to determine how much fluid and electrolytes they need.

[18:17] Gut Issues & Electrolytes * Gut issues can occur when there’s a mismatch between your physiology and the amount of electrolytes you’re consuming. * Listen to your body and make sure your intake of fluid and electrolytes are right for you.

[21:23] How To Get A Sweat Test * Precision Fuel & Hydration has sweat test centres in the UK, America, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. * If you’re interested in getting a sweat test, you can find their locations on their website or reach out to find someone local to you. * Their website also has a free online hydration test. * There's no "one size fits all" approach to hydration; an individualised approach to health is needed.

[27:37] The Relationship Between Sodium & Potassium * The relationship between the ratios of body fluid and electrolytes is essential. * Sodium is the predominant electrolyte in your extracellular fluid, while potassium is the predominant electrolyte in your intracellular fluid. * An imbalance between sodium and potassium can be detrimental. * Potassium doses can be dangerous if not done properly.

[27:37] The Role of Magnesium * You don’t lose vast amounts of magnesium when you sweat. * However, some people find that taking magnesium supplements helps with cramps. * The majority of cramping incidents can be solved with the right sodium supplementation, making it a game-changer in an athlete’s performance.

[37:11] Carb Fueling * If you load up on carbs before endurance events, you can go faster for longer. * The more carbohydrates you can oxidise, the lower the oxygen your body consumes in exercise, and the faster you can go — that’s why marathon runners consume lots of carbs. * Maximise carbohydrate intake and absorption for endurance events. * For fast moving-athletes, the minimum carbohydrate recommendation is around 60 to 90 grams per hour. * Endurance training helps the body burn fat more efficiently, but when you’re burning fat, your pace slows–which isn’t optimal for racing.

[47:54] What’s In Their Gels? * Precision Fuel & Hydration gels are maltodextrin-based with some fructose. * Other gels are more like syrups, which can make people sick, but Precision Fuel & Hydration gels are like jelly or jam without flavour, colour, and electrolytes. * Its ingredients are carbs, pectin, and citric acid. * Fat adaptation and carbs depend on your body and activity. * While carbs might seem unfashionable with the rise of the keto diet and fat adaptation, carb intake can also help with fueling.

[57:22] Intermittent Fasting * Andy cycles his carbohydrate intake around his activity level. * His wife is interested in intermittent fasting from a scientifically-based perspective. * He does not follow the same regime as his wife, but he skips breakfast and narrows his eating window depending on his activity. * Doing intermittent fasting effectively fires up the same cellular machine. * Don’t be rigid about fasting and eat when you need to so you won’t be deficient.

[1:07:14] Find Out How Much Carbs You Need * Their Quick Carb Calculator shows how many carbs you need per hour. * You can also access one-on-one video calls with their sports science team so you can get an individualised approach.

[1:09:26] Staying True To Their Mission * Precision Fuel & Hydration began offering one-on-one video calls during the pandemic. * They use automation to make these calls quick and simple. * The core of their business is to be a resource for athletes — and they always keep this mission in mind as they scale.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I thought I'd solve the problem for everyone because I was taking a high dose and I was just like high dose is the way to go. But you learn over time that actually that more individualized approach is the way to go.’

‘The thing about body fluid and electrolytes is that the absolute levels of them are important. But what's even more important is the relationship between the ratios between them.’

‘Sodium is the predominant electrolyte in your extracellular fluid. Potassium is the predominant electrolyte in your intracellular fluid. When you get those two seriously out of whack that can cause problems — no matter if you've got the right level of water.’

‘What happens with 90 odd percent of athletes that have electrolyte disturbances, it's a sodium imbalance issue because extracellular fluid is very sodium rich. It doesn't have a lot of potassium in it.’

‘At least the majority, if not a vast majority of that cramping, can be alleviated with the right sodium supplementation.’

‘If you want to go fast doing endurance events even for multiple hours, carbohydrate is your friend and you kind of need to work on ways to maximise intake and absorption.’

‘One-size-fits-all soundbite advice like, ‘With electrolytes, you need to do this. With fluid, you need to do this.’ The reality is there's a little bit more or a lot more nuance in a lot of people's heads.’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Precision Fuel & Hydration website * Connect with Andy: Twitter | LinkedIn

About Andy Andy Blow is a sports scientist and co-founder of Precision Fuel & Hydration. He earned his degree in Sports and Exercise Science from the University of Bath. His expertise is sweat, dehydration, and cramping. He was formerly the team sports adviser for the Benetton and Renault and remains the Porsche Human Performance Centre adviser.

An elite athlete in his youth, Andy finished in the top 10 of Ironman and IM 70.3 races, including winning an Xterra World title. His struggles with cramps and dehydration led to his specialisation in electrolyte replenishment and building Precision Fuel & Hydration. He’s a leading figure in sports hydration and has co-authored several studies and books. His works have been published in BMJ Journals, Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, and Journal of the Endocrine Society.

Learn more about Andy’s work on the Precision Fuel & Hydration website. You can also connect with him on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to properly fuel and hydrate their bodies.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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In today's episode Lisa's talks about the two minds. The conscious mid and the Subconscious mind. The subconscious mind can process 20 000 000 bits of infoper second. The conscious mind can only process 40 bits of info/sec. So the subconscious mind can process 500 000 time more what the conscious mind is able to. This information has powerful implications when it comes to getting what you want and desire in life and to changing behaviours and thought processes that are no longer serving you or that are limiting you.

Your conscious mind is your creative mind, your self, your wants, your desires. Your subconscious mind is a tape recorder. It just plays back whatever it was programmed with.

We learn how you got your programming to begin with and why it might be direct competition to what you actually want and how that might be sabotaging your attempts to change.

To learn more about this topic Lisa recommends you read "The Biology of Belief" by Dr Bruce Lipton and to study his works at www.brucelipton.com

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Arthritis is a severe disease that's uncomfortable at best and debilitating at worst. It is a leading cause of disability worldwide. Most people think that arthritis only happens to the elderly, but it can affect anyone. It is a disease that begins in your 20s or results from injuries sustained as a child. Unfortunately, most of what the general public is misinformed about arthritis: what it is, how it starts, and how to treat it!

In this episode, Dr Elizabeth Yurth addresses common misconceptions about arthritis. She defines the disease and offers realistic alternatives to established treatment options. If you want to learn more about longevity-based proactive measures to address arthritis, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Recognise arthritis as an inflammatory process rather than a wear-and-tear disease. 2. Understand the importance of addressing arthritis early on — as early as your 20s! 3. Learn how longevity studies-based supplements and treatments improve the immune system and combat arthritis.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:30] Breaking the Misconceptions about Arthritis * Arthritis is more than a wear-and-tear condition; it’s an inflammatory disease process. * It is not limited to the elderly. The disease process can begin with minor injuries, even those sustained as a child. * Arthritis is a combination of genetics and environmental factors triggered by trauma.

[08:25] Arthritis as an Inflammatory Disease Process * Arthritis is a disease process like neurodegenerative and cardiac illnesses. * Our bodies follow a balanced way to deal with injuries. It releases the level of cytokines that set off the body’s response to healing and recovery. Afterwards, cytokine levels fall, and anti-inflammatory proteins take over. * The disease process begins during Imbalance in any part of the process. It can be started as too many cytokines lead to zombie cells and lack of autophagy.

[12:20] General Approaches to Addressing Arthritis * Turn off inflammatory cytokines through simple supplements like curcumin or epigallocatechin. * Turning down the inflammatory response allows the injury to heal better. * Inducing autophagy or knocking off the bad cells helps reduce injury as well.

[13:36] Arthritis is a Preventable Disease * Arthritis is a disease that should be given more attention, as it has a significant impact on people’s quality of life. * It is the primary cause of disability among people of working age. * Arthritis is preventable to a large degree, despite genetics and other factors.

[18:32] Current Orthopedic Treatments for Arthritis * The focus in addressing arthritis is to treat the disease process. * Steroid injections temporarily reduce inflammatory cytokines, but they also inhibit those that aid in healing. * Arthroscopic surgery can provide immediate comfort. However, it can also inflict tears that can cause the rapid progression of arthritis. * Back fusion can help cases of spinal instability. However, for degenerative discs, the long-term success rate of surgery is around 10% of those who undergo it.

[24:09] Degenerative Disc Disease as an Inflammatory Disease * Degenerative disc disease is an inflammatory disease caused by high levels of cytokines. This includes the nuclear factor kappa beta. * The goal is to focus on the issues that cause disc destruction, such as elevated cytokine levels, rather than the disc itself. * Ageing processes, like degeneration, should serve as a wake-up call to reconsider one's diet. This also includes reconsidering supplements, and exercise, as well as one's cardiovascular health.

[27:18] Changing the Perspective about Arthritis * People should be aware that arthritis begins in their 20s, similar to brain disorders, heart ailments, and cancers. * All these immune and inflammatory diseases come down to curing ageing. * We need to take proactive steps and opt for longevity instead of a mechanical standard of care. * Opting for the ‘expensive’ care earlier will save you time, stress, and money. People often exhaust traditional options first before pursuing longevity treatments.

[38:49] Pentosan Polysulfate: ‘A Cure for Arthritis’ * Pentosan polysulfate is a repurposed drug that reduces cytokines causing degenerative disc pain. * According to studies, even after just six weeks of using Pentosan Polysulfate, you can continue to reap the advantages for up to a year.

[45:07] Vitamins and Supplements to Combat Arthritis * Another strategy to fight arthritis is to make sure your nutrients are optimised. * Vitamins D and C, and zinc are critical but straightforward micronutrients. * Epigallocatechin gallate, or EGCG, has many benefits that aid in addressing arthritis. Its benefits include muscle-building, fat loss, and myostatin blocking.

[47:07] Benefits of Gaining Muscle * Muscle, as an organ, produces endocrine glands, and myokines have very beneficial effects on joints. * Those with sarcopenia or muscle loss are more likely to develop joint arthritis. * Electrical stimulation of muscles can be done for individuals who are further along in a disease process. * Static contraction or contracting the muscles for three seconds every hour also helps muscle-building.

[51:03] Inducing Autophagy Process Using Spermidine * Spermidine is a polyamine compound that comes from bacteria in certain foods. * Polyamine is produced by the human body as well. However, as we become older, we make less of it. * It is an autophagy-Inducing agent that aids in getting rid of damaged cells. * Spermidine works better than steroids at reducing inflammation. It preserves the joints without making them worse.

[54:06] Trehalose: The ‘Sugar Substitute’ * Trehalose is glucose that impacts oxidative stress and helps clean up the cells. * It has zero glycemic impact, which helps blood glucose under control. * Trehalose is looked at for neurodegenerative diseases but can benefit joint pain.

[56:57] Peptide Therapies as Simple, Inexpensive Aid * If you are looking for simple, inexpensive aid, collagen peptides can also be beneficial. * They typically are part of a mixture including Vitamin C, which helps cartilage cells. * A more expensive option is aggressive peptides, like BPC 157 or Body Protection Compound 157. These peptides can aid joint regeneration. * It’s vital to understand the role of inflammation in arthritis rather than jumping at treatments, like stem cell therapy.

[59:54] The Role of Stressed Immune System * Almost every disease is related to over-aggressive, pro-inflammatory cytokines, disruption in mitochondrial function, and autophagy. * Ageing causes a significant number of diseases. * The immune system goes awry for many reasons, including viral exposures.

[59:54] Antiviral Drugs, Hormones, and Fasting * Antiviral drugs, hormones, and fasting can help the immune system fight diseases as healthy as possible. * EGCG and curcumin are natural compounds that have some antiviral properties. Acyclovir is also a safe choice for combatting the herpes virus and Epstein-Barr, among others.

  • Our immune system produces fewer hormones as we become older. Our bodies need hormones to function, so we need to replace them somehow.
  • Hormones have huge immune-modulating properties that help stop oxidative stress.
  • The immune system benefits from the recovery period following a fast. It can be very beneficial to clear out dead cells.

[1:08:55] Rapamycin and Metformin: The ‘Future’ of Arthritis * Rapamycin is a chemotherapeutic medication with a solid immune-modulating effect. * It is well-known for activating autophagy, which can lengthen lifespan in all mammalian species scientists have studied. * Metformin is an inexpensive medication that keeps glucose control. * It has some interesting studies on arthritis. One study shows the overlapping benefits in cardiovascular, renal, cancer, and obesity protection.

7 Powerful Quotes “[Arthritis as an inflammatory disease process] is the same thing that goes on with COVID. Right? Yes. Why do some people die of COVID? [It's] usually not the virus itself -- it's the immune reaction to the virus.”

“So we know we have to treat [cytokines] and not the disc itself. That's the end game. Treat the problem that's causing the disc damage.”

“...[W]e're really trying to get into the heads of these [20-year-olds] and say, the [disease process starts when you’re] 20. Yeah, like your brain diseases, your heart diseases, and your cancers are all those processes are starting in our 20s.”

“The plastic surgeons are doing fine. [P]eople are more than willing to spend that money on their facelifts and things like that [than] internally to feel better.”

“You can have no cartilage and no pain or no discs, and no gain. The pain is an inflammatory sign.”

“Go back, go back up the tree. And then you had all of the diseases in mitochondria and information.”

"Be it cancer, metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, or neurologic arthritis, they're all the same disease. You've got to get the immune system as healthy as possible. You have to stop oxidative stress."

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Track your blood glucose in real-time with Levels Health. * Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer Is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms by Travis Christofferson * Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators is Trying to Transform our Health Care System by Travis Christofferson * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Want to learn more from Dr Dom? Check out Peter Attia’s podcast episodes with him: * + Episode 116 - AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part I of II: Ketogenic diet, exogenous ketones, and exercise + Episode 120 – AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part II of II: Ketosis for cancer and chronic disease, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and the effect of ketosis on female health + Episode 5 - Dom D'Agostino, PhD: ketosis, n=1, exogenous ketones, HBOT, seizures, and cancer * You can also check out other podcasts where Dr Dom was a guest here. * The 1-Week and 8-Month Effects of a Ketogenic Diet or Ketone Salt Supplementation on Multi-Organ Markers of Oxidative Stress and Mitochondrial Function in Rats * Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer * Ketone supplementation decreases tumour cell viability and prolongs the survival of mice with metastatic cancer * Moffitt Cancer Center * Get your exogenous ketones from Audacious Nutrition * Keto Nutrition: Website | Youtube | Instagram | Facebook * Connect with Dr Dom: Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram

About Dr Elizabeth Dr Elizabeth Yurth, MD, FAARFM, ABAARM is a practising orthopedic. She specialises in sports, spine, and regenerative medicine and has over 25 years of professional experience as a practising orthopaedic physician. She is a double-Board Certified in Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation and Anti-Aging/Regenerative Medicine.

Dr Yurth has dedicated her life to longevity. In 2006, she founded the Boulder Longevity Institute, where she serves as the Medical Director. She has worked as the team physician for Stanford and Santa Clara Universities and consulted for the San Francisco 49ers and the San Jose Ballet.

Dr Yurth has a dual-Fellowship in Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine (FAARM), and Anti-Aging, Regenerative and Functional Medicine (FAARFM) through the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M). She recently completed a Fellowship in Human Potential and Epigenetic Medicine.

You can learn more and connect with Dr Elizabeth on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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It's the clear liquid that surrounds the cells of your body. Except for cartilage, nails, and hair, your entire body is bathed in lymph. You are literally swimming in lymphatic fluid, so its nickname is the Body Aquarium.

If you have a chronic pain or illness like Lyme, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, IBS, Crohn's Disease, etc., you will have a lymphatic problem. You just need to discover how much.

About five years ago Dr Perry got very sick. H had many health issues and felt like crap all the time. He supposedly got better by medical standards, yet still felt terrible. Feeling bad was his new normal. When you get so used to feeling awful you just assume that's the way it is. You forget what good feels like. Well, you don't have to suffer.

Dr Perry's illness helped him discover why he felt so terrible and why nobody in medicine could help him. His lymphatic system was a complete disaster. You might be surprised to discover healthcare providers get very little education about the lymphatic system's role in poor health.

He learned all be could about the lymphatic system and brought himself back to feeling amazing again with what Lisa and Dr Perry talk about in this show.

Ever wonder why chronic pain doesn't get better despite all your therapy and medications? Your lymphatic system may be the problem. If the body can't rid of cellular waste during the healing process, the inflammation simply stays in the tissues causing pain. If it can't get out of the body, you can't get better.

Feeling hopeless, tired, fatigued, poor concentration and overwhelmed with lack of progress in your recovery? You need to check your lymph and Dr Perry shows you how. The lymph is connected to your brain and your brain can't function optimally when the lymph is dysfunctional. Dr Perry Nickelston shares with Lisa everything you ever wanted to know and all the things you never even thought to ask, about the lymphatic system. You can find out more about the courses Dr Perry offers and all his resources at www.stopchasingpain.com and find him on instagram under the handle @stopchasingpain Perry Nickelston, DC, NKT, FMS, SFMA, is a Chiropractic Physician with primary focus on Performance Enhancement, Corrective Exercise, and Metabolic Fitness Nutrition and trained fromThe American College of Addictionology and Compulsive Disorders. He is an expert in myofascial, orthopedic, medical and trigger point soft tissue therapy. A member of the Board of Directors and Medical Staff Advisor for AIMLA (American Institute of Medical Laser Application). Dr. Perry teaches healthcare professionals all over the world how to successfully use Class IV Deep Tissue Laser Therapy in alleviating pain. Director of clinical protocols and training for LiteCure Medical Lasers specializing in Myofascial Laser treatments.

Dr. Perry is an expert in movement assessment and diagnosis. Certified and trained as a Functional Movement Specialist (FMS) and Selective Functional Movement Assessment Specialist (SFMA). He uses programs designed to find your source of painful dysfunction and correct it the site of pain improves. A regular columnist for Dynamic Chiropractic, Practice Insights, Chiropractic Economics, To Your Health Magazine, Advance Physical Therapy, PT on the Net, LiveStrong, StrengthCoach, and other industry publications for health and fitness.

After suffering a severe back injury and recovering with laser therapy, he decided to dedicate himself to offering this amazing treatment modality to others. Creator of the Core 4 RRTT Recovery and Regeneration Program for maximum pain relief. A self treatment program whose sole purpose is to empower you to take back control of your life from chronic pain.

He is a 1997 graduate from Palmer Chiropractic University and a master fitness trainer with over 25 years experience in the health industry. Suffering from obesity as a teenager and overcoming all of the emotional strife that accompanies being overweight, Dr. Perry dedicated himself to teaching others how to get in shape and lead a healthy lifestyle. He is currently publishing several books on health, fitness, laser therapy, business success, and self treatment programs from his website.

Visit Dr. Perry today to get your unique Core 4 System Evaluation to determine why you are hurting, even after others have tried helping. Hundreds have taken advantage of the Stop Chasing Pain program.

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Whichever stage of life you might be in, you’ll want to live it to the fullest. You’ll want mental clarity to perform at your best, energy to spend time with your loved ones, and a strong metabolism to maintain your ideal body weight. Using peptides is a great and effective way to remain healthy so you can make the most out of your life.

In this episode, Brian Graham discusses the functions and benefits of different peptides. He also shares some exciting developments in the peptide space. Peptides come with amazing effects — but they can also come with unpleasant side effects when not used with caution.

If you want to learn more about how peptides can power your body and enhance your quality of life, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how peptides work on your body. 2. Discover the latest developments in the peptide space. 3. Find out the numerous benefits of peptides.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don’t know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

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My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:20] Entering The Peptide Space * Brian is a peptide specialist at Boulder Longevity Institute. * When he first entered the peptide space, he worked more on performance optimization. * He underwent educational training at the American Academy for Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine and earned a formal certification. * He met Dr. Yurth while she was working at an orthopedic practice. They focused on bringing medical innovation to clinical relevance through collaboration.

[06:48] What Are Peptides? * Peptides have been around for some time, even in traditional medicine. * They are naturally-occurring products that help regulate or stimulate a given process. For example, insulin is a peptide that regulates blood glucose to prevent neuropathic pain and other complications. * Many things can be targeted on a cellular level with a given peptide.

[09:07] Proteins vs. Peptides * A protein that’s a large peptide has more binding sites or activity. * Smaller sequences of amino acids become more specific for a given cellular target. * When chopped up, large proteins are basically made up of peptides. * Many environmental factors inhibit your body’s ability to make a given peptide, such as prioritization and accumulation of stressors. * The aging process is associated with a decreased ability to make certain peptides.

[12:05] BPC-157 * BPC-157 is a gastric-derived peptide that naturally occurs in the digestive system and helps support the cells and makeup of the digestive system. * It increases blood flow, thus helping modulate healing and recovery processes, especially in the musculoskeletal system. * It also helps with neuron regeneration and improves the integrity of the blood-brain barrier. * It’s an F-actin sequestering peptide that dampens the effects of scarring.

[17:00] What’s Happening in the Peptide Space * The peptide space is incredibly dynamic with lots of innovative research and people working hard to get it to clinical relevance. * While much of it is on the bench, there are many strides in the peptide space. * There are many factors affecting the accessibility of peptides, such as market exclusivity.

[19:42] Increasing Accessibility * Brian has been advocating and informing his patients of what’s available to them and gives them access if possible. * Peptides that are in clinical development and have gone through safety trials require an API. * Unfortunately, there are still some inconsistencies in products with company pharmacies that they partner with. * It’s important to assess what’s going to be effective for you.

[23:24] SS-31 * SS-31 is a mitochondrial peptide that has market exclusivity. * It targets the inner mitochondrial membrane and buffers lipid peroxidation, improving the overall system. * Brian and his team are working on enhancing its effects by adding other synergistic materials to it.

[27:33] GHK-Cu * GHK-Cu is widely known in the aesthetic space for collagen deposition and reduction of fine lines and wrinkles. * Peptides should be used with caution because taking too much might compromise your health. * It’s also being used for postoperative recovery and it could potentially help reorient genetic issues and damage.

[31:15] Ta1 * Thymosin alpha 1 modulates the immune system. It protects immunocompromised people who are more vulnerable to viral bacteria. * It’s used for vaccines against viral hepatitis, certain types of cancer, and autoimmune diseases. * Essentially, it helps with immunosurveillance by identifying foreign invaders, such as viruses and bacteria, and removing them. * Though it has an incredible safety record, it’s under scrutiny and there is limited access to it.

[31:15] Semaglutide and GLP-RA * Semaglutide and GLP-RA are synthetic peptides that regulate metabolism, increasing energy utilization and decreasing fat storage. * It’s commonly used for glucose control. * It also regulates metabolic processes in the brain, potentially reversing cognitive issues. * However, it might also lead to nausea, vomiting, distension, and other issues because it slows down stomach emptying.

[43:42] MOD GRF 1-29 * Overstimulation of CJC-1295, which upregulates growth hormones, can lead to a host of issues, such as fluid retention and neuropathic pain. * MOD GRF 1-29 promotes more robust growth hormone production. * Using growth hormone-stimulating hormones might cause dependence because it will shut down your ability to produce growth hormones. * Abusing growth hormones can shut down your body’s abilities. * Growth hormones are released robustly at night and put you in a position to recover.

[49:23] Other Peptides * Brian is only familiar with Epithalamin with regards to pineal gland-derived peptides. * Cerebral lysine supports the nervous system and can potentially treat Alzheimer’s disease, brain injury, stroke, etc. * MOTS-c is a mitochondrial-derived peptide that’s associated with longevity. * Humanin is used with MOTS-c, due to its synergistic effects, to encourage greater levels of mitochondria and metabolic flexibility. * Metabolic flexibility translates to overall system integrity, resiliency, and performance.

[57:24] Supersapiens * Supersapiens sensors track glucose, ketones, and lactate in real-time. * It helps enhance your performance and guides you in knowing what you need. * It’s best to seek guidance when you start getting into the peptide space so you’ll be able to do things effectively and safely.

7 Powerful Quotes “... essentially, what it does is it helps to regulate a given process. And that’s what peptides do, they are essentially a key to a door or an opportunity to either lock a door of a given process or open it up…”

“[Peptides] could be analogous to a dimmer switch on the wall: you’re turning up the light or turning down the light, but that’s going to correspond with the given physiologic mechanism.”

“Just because this stuff looks good on paper doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be good for everyone. It’s really important to distil down what is going to be effective for you so you’re not wasting your time and your money doing a treatment that you don’t necessarily need.”

“If you’re in a chronic deteriorative state where your body’s sort of ill-equipped to address that need, then you’re going to chronically upregulate inflammation and essentially chronically deteriorate, unfortunately.”

“More is not always better.”

“Everything happens in a rhythm. Everything has its own clock.”

“It’s important [...] to have guidance, whether that’s with me or someone else that is skilled and understands this constantly evolving field to really do things effectively.”

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Peptide Therapy and Caring for Our Cells with Dr William Seeds * Supersapiens Biosensors * Connect with Brian: LinkedIn

About Brian Brian Graham is the Program Director at Boulder Longevity Institute. He’s a certified peptide specialist through the International Peptide Society and American Academy for Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine.

Brian is an industrious health and wellness professional with a thorough understanding of clinical peptide modalities. Through his work, he provides high-level concierge health services to patients and is well-versed in peptide sales.

If you want to know more about Brian, you can connect with him on LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Chris Dorris is a Master Mental Toughness coach who has work with thousands of athletes over the past three decades and also many hugely successful business people and corporations. His hard hitting, no BS, tough talk approach really gets results and his insights are mindblowing quite literally.

He is the author of a number of internationally published books and a sought after speaker.

One of his mantras is Success = Clarity + Courage + Discipline and he describes real world ways we can improve our thinking, "Decide" we are going to change and become whatever we envision.

You can connect with Chris at www.christopherdorris.com where you can access his courses, books, coaching and much more

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Pursuing your passion takes a lifetime of dedication. Sometimes, you might feel that you’re not reaping what you sowed. But the road to success is neither easy nor short. Many successful people needed to work hard and ceaselessly for years before getting a breakthrough in their careers.

In this episode, Anne Audain shares her incredible journey as a runner. Throughout her career, she broke many records, won many races, and inspired many significant changes in the sport. Even back then, when there were fewer opportunities for athletes to earn money and go pro, she was able to break the norms and earn a living with her passion. Learn how Anne triumphed over all the obstacles and made history as an athlete, and as a woman.

If you want to learn more about Anne’s incredible journey and be inspired to set out on your pursuit of greatness, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how running became a professional sport. 2. Find out how Anne overcame challenges as an athlete. 3. Be inspired by her story.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don’t know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:17] Anne’s Childhood * When she was a child, her parents noticed she walked on her heels. Bone deformities grew on her feet, but she couldn’t get surgery until she was 13. * After her surgery, she wasn’t given crutches or a wheelchair; instead, the doctors gave her an orthopedic boot to push her forward on her feet. * When she took off her cast, she found that it was easier to run than walk.

[06:30] The Start of Her Running Journey * She joined the Otahuhu Athletics Club in South Auckland at 14 years old. * She tried high jumping and long jumping but ultimately found that she loved running. * She finished third in the Auckland Senior 800m Champs and was recruited by her first coach into his athletic squad. * When she began running, the longest distance in Olympic Games for women was 800m.

[10:06] Progressing Into the Major Leagues * She started racing cross country in the senior races at 14 years old. * At 15, she won the New Zealand road championships and Auckland vs. Waikato. * Then at 16, she raced in the New Zealand championships in the 1500m but wasn’t able to go to Munich though she qualified for the Olympics because she was too young. * She finished ninth in the World Championships in Belgium at 17 years old. * Listen to the full episode to hear more about how she got to represent New Zealand and travel for free many times!

[14:08] How She Started Road Racing * In 1981, she left New Zealand with her husband and headed to England. * Anne got her airfare to England by getting into a New Zealand cross country team to go to Madrid in March 1981. * She had no intentions of pursuing the sport, but Rod Dixon told her to try road racing. * Anne then came to the United States and finished third in a 10k in New Orleans.

[19:58] The First Professional Race * Back then, they just raced and won trophies; but road race directors wanted the sport to go professional to stop the under-the-table payments. * Phil Knight, the founder of Nike, also supported the change so he can sponsor runners. * In June 1981, Anne won a 15km race in Portland, Oregon — the first professional race — where there was equal prize money. * Despite the consequences, she believed she deserved a chance to earn money, too. * Because she was only in the United States on a visitor’s visa, she got in trouble since it was illegal to accept money and those who do can get a lifetime ban from the sport.

[25:28] How Her Career Took Off * The United States road race directors ignored the ban, and allowed her to continue her sport. * She was able to race at the Peachtree Road Race in Atlanta and continued road racing. * By the end of 1981, she had earned $22,000. She also signed with Nike, becoming the first female runner to sign with the company. * She eventually chose to become an American taxpayer and deal with immigration.

[28:02] Helping Athletes Grow * Races becoming professional shook up a lot of sports and gave opportunities for student-athletes to get sponsorship agreements. * Becoming a full-time athlete allowed her to get better accomplishments. * She was one of the first to get the H-1B visa, which is now used by many athletes. * She was only reinstated a week before racing in Brisbane at the Commonwealth Games. * Anne believes that athletes should get opportunities to grow when they’re young.

[36:15] Anne’s Many Achievements * She set the world record in the 5000m at Mt Smart Stadium. * In 1982, she was undefeated in the United States and broke the course records of each race that she ran in. * Her two biggest decisions were going pro in the United States and changing coaches. * Listen to the full episode to hear all about the amazing races and accomplishments that she garnered in her running career!

[36:15] Transitioning Out * She retired due to mental reasons since she started losing focus and discipline. * Once she made her decision, her coach, John Davies, said she just needed six months of sabbatical, but she knew she was done. * In 1993, she founded what became the largest women’s only event in the United States. * She put her passion into building that event and empowering women to participate in the 5000k race.

[45:16] The Biggest Lesson * Her sport taught her how to live a focused, calm, and healthy life, which was particularly useful during the pandemic. * Learning to live a simple life is the greatest gift.

7 Powerful Quotes “Every dream is to go to the Olympic Games and you can always look back and say, ‘It might have been my one and only chance.’”

“So what I was getting out of my sport then was a whole bunch of world travel free, which was absolutely amazing. But who knew where it was all going to go? So I split my career into [...] 11 years as an amateur, and then things could have gone backwards or forwards.”

“If I can earn money out of my talent, then I want the same chance.”

“And so all these people go, ‘Well, they should be doing it for the love of their country’ and so forth. Well, I did it for the love of my country for 11 years, and I was almost lost. I wouldn't be sitting here with another 11 years of even better accomplishments if I had not been proficient.”

“How do you grow athletes if you don’t give them a chance when they’re young?”

“In ‘81, I was two weeks away from being gone from the sport; and in ‘82, I had a world record, a gold medal, and was unbeaten. So here’s the difference my decision made in my life.”

“I think if you can learn to live a very simple life, which we do learn to live a very disciplined, focused, but also a very simple life as professional athletes, that’s [...] one of the greatest gifts that you get.”

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Anne Audain: Running Her Way * Uncommon Heart: 1 Woman’s Triumph by Anne Audain * Connect with Anne: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook

About Anne Anne Audain, the first professional female distance runner. Throughout her career, she has set records and pioneered professional running for women. She has been inducted into the New Zealand Sports Hall of Fame, the USA Running Hall of Fame, and honoured with a Member of the British Empire medal from Queen Elizabeth II for her contributions to her sport worldwide.

She founded the Anne Audain Charitable Trust to support at-risk youth in Auckland in 1991 and the Idaho Women’s Celebration 5K in 1993. Her autobiography, Uncommon Heart: 1 Woman’s Triumph, was published in 2000.

If you want to know more about Anne’s journey and achievements, check out her website. You can also reach out to her on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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This week Lisa shares her best tips for running trail races. Tips on running uphill, tip for the downhill, hydration and electrolytes, nutrition.

Getting the best shoes, blister prevention, mental tactics and more

A must listen to episode if you want to shortcut your path for running success.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Marathon is a tough challenge. There will be days when you wonder whether the early morning runs, the sweltering heat, and the pressure to win are all worth it. Yet, despite the odds, charity runners still put on their running shoes, hoping to transform the lives of people in need.

Without a doubt, completing a marathon is an amazing feat. However, doing it for a good cause always elevates the experience.

In this episode, Andrew McCrory talks about his journey running across New Zealand to raise funds for kids with cerebral palsy. He describes the obstacles he faced during the marathon and shares how he overcame them. Finally, Andrew offers advice to those considering undertaking such amazing feats for a good cause.

If you’re interested in running for a cause, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how running can help advance a noble cause. 2. Get advice on how to cope with the effects of long-distance running. 3. Find out how Andrew overcame hurdles, both in ultra-marathons and in life.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Visit Peak Fitness and Health * Be a part of Precision Fuel and Hydration by Andy Blow * Connect with Megan Stewart * Try PerfectAmino by Dr David Minkoff * Know more about Andrew’s cause at Give a Little * Connect with Andrew Facebook and Instagram

Episode Highlights [3:56] Andrew’s Background * Andrew is a loving husband and father. * He is an EIT tutor who assists students preparing for careers in the police and defence forces. * He works part time at Peak Fitness and Health as an instructor. * Andrew had a back injury as a result of an unfortunate event when he was 17 years old. He went back to running after his recovery. * Before joining the army, he worked as a mechanic and a farmer.

[8:27] Starting Long-Distance Running * Andrew was inspired to run across New Zealand to raise funds for children with cerebral palsy. * He trained for around two months before he started running in December. * The only requirement when taking part in long-distance running is to be physically fit.

[11:24] Standing on the Starting Line * Andrew was thrilled to begin his run at Te Mata's Peak because there were many spectators. * On day one, finishing the remaining 20 kilometres was a challenge as he continued to hurl. * Throughout the first four days of the marathon, Andrew's body continued to cramp.

  • On the second day, Andrew overcame hurdles as he soothed his blistered feet and endured the burning heat.
  • Running for an extended period causes your feet to swell. Before running a marathon, it is advisable to visit a shoe clinic.

[18:03] Andrew’s Supportive Wife * Andrew’s wife, who is a nurse, has been there for him since he began running. * She and Andrew work together to help children with cerebral palsy. * Athletes need the guidance and support of a professional or loved one as they train.

[23:40] Coping with the Challenges of Running * It doesn’t matter how long it takes to finish a run. Instead, do what you can for the day. * You can enjoy your run once you stop thinking of it as a race. * We should commend people who put themselves out there for others, regardless of whether their initiative succeeds or fails.

[33:01] Running for a Cause * Andrew’s marathon for cerebral palsy brought a large crowd from Auckland. * He planned to gather $20,000 at the end of the marathon. * By the 12th day, he had already received half of the planned charity fund. * Utilise the features of social media to encourage people to participate and support charity initiatives. * People who have the least usually donate the most because they understand the struggle.

[37:32] Preparing and Understanding Your Body * Andrew changed little in his diet, except for giving up coffee. * Athletes need the right combination of protein and amino acids to perform well. * Listen to the full episode to know how amino acids can help you perform and recover better.

[43:13] Bouncing Back * Andrew completed his run across New Zealand in 40 days. * He admits missing the simplicity of marathoning now that he has to deal with the complexities of reality. * Allow your body to recover and experience your accomplishment after completing a massive challenge.

[50:49] Valuable Lessons from Marathoning * Don’t be frightened to take on a tough challenge. * Learn to build a team. Look for someone who can help and motivate you. * Seek advice from good people.

  • Always celebrate small wins.
  • Failure is inevitable. You need to learn how to pick yourself up when you fall.

[55:45] The Ultra Marathon Community * In the marathon community, it doesn't matter who crosses the finish line first. Everyone encourages one another to get through the event. * The last person to cross the finish line is the toughest and has fought every obstacle known to man.

7 Powerful Quotes [23:42] Andrew: ‘I just got it through my head that it doesn't matter how long it took me to do 50k… It didn't matter. I could only do what I could do’

[25:22] Lisa: ‘I don't care whether they make it or not make it… because people who are putting themselves out there on the line to do something epic and for good and for their own sporting achievement as well deserve to be congratulated for giving it their all.’

[36:53] Lisa: ‘It does reinforce your belief in humanity because we can get pretty damn cynical in the world that we live in. You know how terrible things can be. Then, you get on the other hand, just amazing people doing amazing things. It's just giving and caring.’

[46:15] Lisa: ​​’Please don't just dive into the next thing. Because you have this tendency when you come off the back of something epic that you've just done, and you’ve achieved, and you’ve done so well, to rush into something else because there's a big hole in your life.’

[46:49] Lisa: ‘That was the beautiful thing about ultra-marathon running. You only had one problem to solve that day and that was to get you across the finish line —5 0k’s away. And that's a beautiful purity of purpose.’

[50:50] Andrew: ‘Don't be afraid to give it a go. But find someone to help you.’

[52:54] Andrew: ‘Celebrate the small wins. Success breeds success.’

About Andrew Andrew McCrory made a name for himself as a runner for children who couldn't walk. While trapped on his sofa for four months due to an accident, he had plenty of time to consider what he could do once he regained his strength. Thus, he began his campaign for kids with cerebral palsy.

Since then, he's run thousands of kilometres in favour of the cause. His most recent accomplishment was running 50 kilometres for 40 days to raise money for children with cerebral palsy and need the costly Selective Dorsal Rhizotomy (SDR) surgery in the United States.

Apart from being an ultra-marathoner, Andrew is an instructor at Peak Fitness and Health and a Services Pathway Tutor at the Eastern Institute of Technology (EIT), where he prepares students for the field of law enforcement. Andrew is also a loving husband and father of two.

Learn more about Andrew’s cause on Give a Little.

You can also connect with him through his social media accounts: Facebook and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share Andrew’s inspiring story with your family and friends.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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BRODIE SHARPE is a Melbourne based physiotherapist who specialises in training and treating runners. He has an incredible knowledge base on all thing running and how to build strength to avoid the most common injuries, how to recover if you are injured and much more

You can find Brodie's podcast on all your favourite podcast apps, his show is titled "Everyday Running Legends" and his website

www. breakthroughrunning.com.au

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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No one is exempt from ageing, and with aging comes diseases and sickness. Decreased performance and cell production also occur because of this phenomenon. Lifestyle changes may be inadequate to help your body function properly.

Over the past years, longevity science has been evolving, with the emergence of several anti-ageing supplements in the market. However, the body may not absorb these supplements effectively enough to slow down the effects of ageing.

In this episode, Dr Elena Seranova explains how the ageing process works. She details how to use supplements, complemented by lifestyle changes, to reverse ageing. She also shares how NMN can be coupled with TMG to create the ultimate longevity supplement. There’s no one supplement to optimise your health, but good habits and lifestyle changes are integral to having a longer and healthier life!

If you want to learn how to reverse ageing through supplements and lifestyle changes, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand the aging process, its vicious cycle, and how it affects and changes our bodies. 2. Learn how you can slow down and reverse the effects of aging. 3. Discover how you can combine TMG with NMN for better results.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [01:53] How Longevity Science Is Growing * There are a growing number of anti-ageing products as we understand the ageing process better. * Multiple cellular processes decline or become imbalanced as people age. * There are 9 hallmarks of ageing, and the study recently added another hallmark to include inflammation. * The top four killer diseases are cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegeneration, and diabetes. The older you are, the higher your chance of developing one of these diseases. * Our body peaks at 25 and starts the aging process from there.

[06:06] Why Is NMN Important? * NMN stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide and is a Vitamin B3 derivative. * It’s a natural molecule that you can get from food, but getting an efficient dosage requires supplementation. * NMN is a precursor to help our metabolism, and it boosts NAD levels. NAD serves as fuel for SIRTUIN proteins that are involved in rejuvenation processes. * NAD is vital to keep our cells healthy and ensure they don’t lose their identity.

[09:23] What Happens in the Body as We Age * Cell identity is vital. What differentiates cells is how certain parts of the genomes are read. As we age, this process can become chaotic. * Chromatin is a substance in a chromosome. Lightly packed chromatin under active transcription is called euchromatin. Heterochromatin, on the other hand, is more condensed and transcriptionally silent. * Epigenetic changes can dictate which areas will be active or inactive. This defines how a cell can be expressed. * Sirtuins are crucial in making sure the right genes are active and mediating DNA repair. However, they become less efficient as we age. * This is how our epigenetic regulation becomes loose, leading to genomic instability and loss of cellular identity.

[15:33] How Aging Can Create a Vicious Cycle * NAD is the fuel source of sirtuin genes. When these genes are depleted, our DNA can’t be repaired. * As we age, NAD production depletes. DNA breaks and genome instability also increase. * This becomes a vicious cycle of needing more energy but with less production. * Furthermore, genome instability can increase senescence or zombie cells. These can further increase genome instability. * Senescent cells are cells that forget how to do their function well and stop replicating. These cells can further drain NAD levels.

[18:19] The Link Between Fasting and Cell Autophagy * Autophagy is the process where cells can get rid of toxins and other things that are not needed anymore. * Autophagy ensures housekeeping and can be triggered by fasting. * 12 hours of fasting can start autophagy in the liver, while 20 hours of fasting can start the process in other tissues. * Eating can activate mTOR, which is another vital cell regulator. This process is deactivated through supplements like Berberine. * Learn to balance both eating and fasting. Hear about Dr Elena’s fasting schedule and supplements in the full episode!

[27:48] Why Dr Elena Launched TMG * Methylation is vital for the body’s most critical functions. These include creating neurotransmitters, cell division, energy production, metabolism, and epigenetics. * Dr Elena launched TMG to boost NMN’s effectiveness and metabolism. * Methylation and TMG can control homocysteine levels, which correlate with cardiovascular diseases. TMG may also enhance athletic performance. * It also has a good safety profile with no side effects despite higher dosage. * Dr Elena recommends a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio of NMN to TMG. For every 500 milligrams of NMN, take 1 to 2 grams of TMG.

[33:31] Do We Need to Worry about Hyper-methylation? * It’s difficult to hyper-methylate. However, individual genetic factors can affect homocysteine levels. * To check your homocysteine levels, you can undergo a blood test or check your gene variants with a genetic test * TMG is an osmoregulator that helps regulate cell balance and can optimize methylation. * After taking over 20 grams, a laxative effect may appear.

[39:41] Where to Start * Dr Elena recommends taking NMN, TMG, and extra virgin olive oil for anti-ageing. * NMN can also help increase insulin sensitivity and boost collagen production, as seen in human clinical trial in prediabetic women. * The market has a lot of collagen supplements, but not all of them are absorbed by the body effectively. * Insulin sensitivity decreases as we age. This is the body’s ability to let glucose flow freely into cells. * You can reverse ageing problems with a better lifestyle and supplements. Dr Elena recommends avoiding carbohydrates in your diet.

[42:55] How to Have a Healthier Diet * Around 80% of adults in the West may be pre-diabetic. * So many foods nowadays are made to be addictive. * While a vegan diet can help you detox at first, you will eventually experience amino acid depletion. Dr Elena prefers a carnivore diet. * She also does fasting with a three-hour eating window. You can start with a longer eating window and slowly reduce it. * You don’t want a glucose spike in the morning.

[48:06] You Don’t Need to Be Perfect * You don’t have to be perfect every day, but make sure you stay consistent with your overall longevity routine. * Exercise and saunas activate Sirtuins. Try to have a routine for one or both. * Optimize your routine and find out what works for you.

[50:52] NMN Bio’s Growth * Dr Elena shares that her company has been growing rapidly. They now have a UK warehouse, UK Amazon FBA, and another warehouse in Europe. * They are also expanding to the United States. * Remember that no one supplement will do everything for you. You also need to change your lifestyle, which includes diet, exercise, and even biorhythms. * There’s a lot of information about longevity online, and it can become overwhelming. This is why Dr Elena created an online course about longevity. * Dr Elena recommends making sure your circadian rhythm is not disrupted.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Tune in to more Pushing the Limits episodes on health and ageing! * + Episode 231: The Immune System and How It Fights Cancer Cells and Viruses with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + Episode 196: Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + Episode 189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + Episode 187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + Episode 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Want to dive deeper into longevity and work out a protocol for yourself? Take the Foundations of Longevity and Life Extension Online Course by Dr Elena Seranova and Jesse Coomer * The Ultimate Anti-Aging Combination: TMG & NMN to Live Significantly Longer? By NMN Bio * The Hallmarks of Aging * Nicotinamide Mononucleotide Increases Muscle Insulin Sensitivity in Prediabetic Women * Visit NMN Bio to know more about NMN supplements!

  • Lifespan by Dr David Sinclair

7 Powerful Quotes [04:28] ‘The older you are, the highest your risk of getting one of these diseases; so if it's not gonna be one of them, it's gonna be the other one… Now we start realising when does aging start, which is actually at quite a young age, basically at the age of 25. Because this is where our hormones peak…’

[12:25] ‘There are multiple functions that Sirtuins need to attend to within the cell. With age, this function becomes less and less efficient, basically, because sirtuins become more forgetful.’

[16:02] ‘So as we age, the production of NAD is declining. So this means that there is less NAD available for sirtuins to use as their fuel to do their job.’

[39:52] ‘There are so many collagen supplements on the market, but not all of them are efficient. And actually not all of them are being absorbed properly because when you do take collagen orally, basically, it’s broken down into amino acids in your digestive system. And then those amino acids may or may not be used to produce more collagen.’

[47:56] ‘We’re all on this road of re-educating ourselves and don't go for perfection. Just go for better, I think is a message as well, you don't have to be perfect.’

[52:22] ‘With regards to the longevity field, I think that it's very important for people to understand that there is no such thing as the fountain of youth. There is no one supplement that you're going to take that is going to do everything for you.’

[56:40] ‘If your melatonin is disrupted, then you will have less defense against reactive oxygen species and that there is another plethora of processes that melatonin is also implicated in and then you don't have all these benefits. And then you're basically aging faster… Takeaway message from today's podcasts. Make sure that you go to sleep early, everyone.’

About Dr Elena Dr Elena Seranova is a scientist, serial entrepreneur and business mentor. She has now founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses. She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. Dr Elena then started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience.

She continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham.

Dr Elena’s expertise in these fields has led her to become the co-founder of a biotech start-up, SkyLab Bio. She has written several peer-reviewed articles on autophagy throughout her career.

In addition to these accomplishments, she started her latest business, NMN Bio. Her own experiences with the use of supplements have inspired her to expand the market to supply the public with cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, the UK, and Europe.

Dr Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.

To learn more about Dr Elena and her work, visit NMN Bio.

Enjoy The Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Dr Paul Wood has had a very colourful life. At age 18 and having just lost his mum he was on a path for disaster, a drug addict and entrenched already in a criminal underworld.
One night a drug dealer tried to molest him and the young Paul reacted violently and caused the death of this man. He had just days before lost his mother and had been the victim of sexual abuse in his childhood and so his reactions were beyond what the situation called for. He was convicted and would spend the next 11 years in jail, most of it in the high security unit at Paremoremo but this is where the story gets interesting.
Instead of living the predictable criminals life, Paul eventually got the chance to study while inside and this changed him and his destiny. He was the first inmate in NZ to come out of prison with a Doctorate to his name. Since then he has completely turned his life around and continues his work in helping others escape their own mental prisons.

He discusses the need for more emotional literacy especially amoung young men and the need to teach more resilience, mental strength and how to manage emotions.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals.

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

Our idea of a healthy lifestyle consists of farm-fresh produce, vegetable-rich diets, and regular exercise. But good nutrition goes beyond the diet and workout programs influencers show on social media.

As people we all struggle with different ailments and have different genetic makeups, it is essential to practice critical thinking before jumping onto the latest diet trends. Attractive as their promises may appear, what might be right for one person may not be right for you.

In this episode, Dr Mikki Williden shares the importance of having the right balance with regard to nutrition and delves into common misconceptions about diet and lifestyle. Dr Mikki details the strategies to optimise your health, especially during these trying times. Nutrition isn’t just about limiting calories but more about eating the right foods.

If you are looking to start your journey to a healthier you or if you want to learn more about the science of nutrition, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn more about nutrition and the importance of proteins in your diet. 2. Learn to think critically rather than just jumping on the next popular bandwagon 3. Discover strategies for optimising your health, especially during the pandemic.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Track your blood glucose in real time with Levels Health.

  • Connect with Mikki: Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | Podcast | Website
  • Listen to FITTER Radio
  • The Peter Attia Drive Podcast
  • The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey

  • Hormone Repair Manual: Every Woman's Guide to Healthy Hormones After 40 by Lara Briden

Episode Highlights [04:48] Nutrition in the Academe * Anyone in the nutrition space can call themselves a nutritionist even without experience. * Mikki noticed that most people with a high comprehension of nutrition do not necessarily have degrees in nutrition. * Critical thinkers tend to have a high capacity for understanding how nutrition works. * There are limitations for those studying nutrition through university programs. Universities tend to teach students an established way of analysing problems.

[07:08] Nutrition in the Field of Medicine * Most general practitioners do not have in-depth knowledge about nutrition, which has given them a bad reputation at times. * The study of nutrition can range from diet to nutrient medication and even to gene interactions. General Practitioners may not know more specialized information about nutrition. * According to Mikki, we may have grown up thinking that our doctor’s decisions are absolute. You are always free to take ownership of your health. * Mikki recommends Lara Briden’s book, Hormone Repair Manual. Learn more about this by tuning in to the full episode.

[13:57] Proteins: A Double-Edged Sword * Amino acids, which build up proteins, act as signalling molecules to turn on the mTOR pathway. * The mTOR pathway regulates growth, particularly cell proliferation, in animals and humans. * The mTOR pathway is vital to human growth and metabolism, but too little or too much activity can be detrimental. * Long-term continuous activity in the mTOR pathway drives cancer cell proliferation and metabolism.

[20:05] The Scary Thing About Cancer * The terrifying fact about cancer is that it can affect anyone. * Cancers can target different areas of the body, which require specific treatments and protocols. * Early detection and diagnosis of cancer will give us the chance to fight back. * However, different cancer tests also vary in sensitivity levels. Some are more sensitive than others.

[23:06] Why Proteins? * Keeping your blood sugar in check is a priority, especially for individuals with metabolic dysregulation. * If you practice a low protein diet, your body will naturally crave more carbohydrates. * To prevent unnecessary intake of carbohydrates, keeping a balanced high-protein diet will be a good step.

[25:56] Should You Fast? * For individuals at the heavier side of the weight spectrum, fasting can help with their therapy. * People on the leaner side of the spectrum, on the other hand, should refrain from prolonged fasting. It may result in loss of muscle mass. * Exercise and fasting provide ‘good stress,’ which can upregulate the body's antioxidant system, anti-inflammatory systems, and NPK signalling pathways. * However, too much stress can break down the body. Always remember to do both in moderation. * The body needs a period of recovery and feeding to reap the benefits of exercise and fasting.

[32:32] Considerations for Fasting * According to Prof Layman and Dr Phillips, two solid inputs of proteins help stimulate muscle protein synthesis a day. * Teenagers and young adults require around 15-20 grams to maximize muscle protein synthesis. Meanwhile, middle-aged to older individuals need 40 grams of protein for optimal muscle protein synthesis. * Extreme fasting can pose a high risk of accelerating muscle breakdown. Getting the right amount of protein for muscle synthesis is important because our bone health also gradually degenerates as we age. * Falls and trips are one of the top causes of mortality in older adults. Our foot and ankle muscles should be strong enough in and around to prevent such accidents.

[36:30] Checking Your Bone-Building Markers * Fasting or insufficient food intake after exercise is also detrimental to bone health. * The body’s bone-building markers are low during the period after exercise. * Factoring in your day’s program for your carbohydrate intake can be beneficial. * Bone marker retention improves with high omega-three intake.

[39:57] The Truth About Oils * Vegetable oils are usually dubbed as “bad” oils since they upregulate inflammation in the body. Processing may heat these oils and destabilize them, which leads to oxidation of the oils. * Oxidized oils are atherogenic. This means that they promote the thickening or hardening of arteries due to fatty plaque build-up. * Placing oils in plastic containers, such as in commercially available oils, can also cause plasticizers to seep into the oil. * A high seed oil diet also means a lot of processed or refined carbohydrate content from the preservatives.

[44:42] Strategies for a Healthy Nutrition * Going organic is a privilege. Depending on a person’s access and budget, there will be times when commercial, processed food will be the only way to go. In cases like this, keeping things in moderation will be key. * Personality has an impact on becoming successful. Success follows if you live a balanced lifestyle. * Becoming self-aware is a good step towards a more balanced, healthy life.

[55:12] Optimising Health During the Pandemic * Mikki laments the lack of discussion about health in the context of COVID-19. * Advocacy plays a heavy role in policymaking during this pandemic. * Resiliency and protection from the virus still depend on how fundamentally healthy you are. * COVID-19 is seen from an epidemiological or immunological point of view. However, the pandemic also has influenced social and cognitive aspects of life. * People should exercise critical thinking instead of blindly following mandates.

7 Powerful Quotes [06:30] (On nutrition in the academy) ‘It's like having done study to work out that you have a super good brain. You are able and capable of doing it, but it has taught you to think in one particular way.’

[20:20] ‘It feels like you get ahead in terms of different treatments, different protocols sort of coming out. But then, every cancer is so different, like a completely different disease.’

[24:15] ‘This is what the research tells us: that you don't have to use research, you just sort of intuitively know if you're propping up your energy because you're trying to rescue your blood sugars on an hour by hour basis. The thing that your body wants is carbs. And it's actually the last thing that it needs.’

[27:24] On repeated and heavy stress on the body: ‘Coming from an ultramarathon background — for health, for toughness, for the sporting endeavor, for the goals and the bloody adventure — yes. For health? No.’

[30:01] ‘If you think about energy expenditure and energy input, if you've got a high energy expenditure, it likes a high energy input to keep those those metabolic pathways nourished, if you like. But then, you move into a phase of low energy output and low energy intake, and again, your body quite likes it, too. It’s good to give your body a bit of a rest.’

[41:15] Whenever you put fat in plastic, it just means that the plasticizers from the container can seep into that food source. That's why I recommend that anyone with any sort of leftovers or whatever, if it's a steamer that they're using a plastic container, put down some baking paper, put something down so there’s a barrier between the plastic [and food].’

[48:33] ‘Mum would not be here if I hadn't, and we as a family, hadn't sacrificed one hell of a lot to get back and on a day to day basis, ongoing. That's what you do for your loved one. For me, it's important to get the people to understand this is a journey.’

About Dr Mikki Dr Mikki Williden, PhD, is a registered nutritionist, who has been helping individuals achieve peak health and performance since 2006. She graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Human Nutrition. She also has a Bachelor of Physical Education from the University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.

In 2003, Mikki donned First Class Honors in her Master in Science degree, where she focused on the development of childhood obesity prevention. By 2011, she obtained a PhD degree with her thesis in health and productivity.

Mikki has a regular column in Bite Magazine, which is part of the New Zealand Herald. She also co-hosts a weekly endurance sports podcast called “Fitter Radio.” Through her podcast, she works together with notable figures in New Zealand and helps them achieve their nutrition-related goals.

To learn more about Mikki, drop a visit to her website or connect with her on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise their health and improve their lifestyle.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Nicola (AKA Gus) Benzie is a mild mannered accountant by day and wild ultramarathon running queen by weekend and night.

I met Gus 4 years ago when she was training to run her first half marathon, she joined our coaching family and we have seen her go from being a rather self concious, lacking in confidence, slightly overweight middle aged lady with asthma who kept getting repeated injuries and many setbacks to becoming a fully fledged ultramrathon running Queen who conquers 100 mile mountain ultramarathons and multi day stage races. From half a marathon to a 100 miles in 3 years. Wow.

Her story is inspiring and you will leave this interview feeling like "just maybe I could do that too"

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional. .

View Details

For years, there have been long-standing debates on what aspects of our food cause obesity. Most healthcare guidelines advise us to follow a high-carb, low-fat diet. But recent findings of nutrition research reveal that this way of eating is not the most effective method to lose weight, nor does it prevent chronic illnesses. And instead of leading a healthy lifestyle, we are eating ourselves to death.

In this episode, Prof David Harper joins us to share the benefits of keto on our health. He also explains why the high-carb, low-fat diet doesn’t work and how it ironically leads to weight gain and diseases. Finally, he shares tips on what to eat to start a healthy lifestyle and how keto can help us achieve this purpose.

Check out this episode and find out the benefits of keto and which diet could help you lead a healthy lifestyle and help prevent chronic illnesses.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn why it’s unhealthy to follow a low-carb, high-fat diet

  1. Understand the importance of avoiding highly processed food and sugar

  2. Discover the three axes of illness

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Read BioDiet by David Harper

  • BioDiet website | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

  • Check out the Keto Salt Lake

  • Alzheimer's Disease Is Type 3 Diabetes by Suzanne de la Monte and Jack Wands

  • The Lancet: Global Burden of Disease

  • Contact David LinkedIn | Twitter

Episode Highlights [02:56] Dr David’s Background * Dr David switched his research focus to the therapeutic benefits of keto for chronic diseases ten years ago. * His recent research collaboration with Dr Jeff Volek looked into the benefits of ketogenic diets for women with metastatic breast cancer. * Like many others, Dr David thought it was healthy to have a high-carb, low-fat diet. * Dr David's book, BioDiet, was made for a layperson to understand the benefits of ketogenic diets

[05:05] Debunking High-Carb, Low-Fat Diet * The high-carb, low-fat diet is an experiment conducted by health bureaucrats on millions of North Americans for years. * Exercise is good for the body, but it’s not the key to losing weight. Instead, people must focus on their diet to shed off some pounds. * Obesity is your body's physiological reaction to excess carbohydrates in your diet. Tune in to know how David came to this realisation through a radio show!

[09:06] Why Ancel Keys Is Wrong * Ancel Keys is an American physiologist who discovered that, supposedly, high saturated fat and cholesterol cause heart diseases. * While his hypothesis seems intuitive, there is no evidence to prove Keys’ statement. * It’s incorrect to consider calories as the primary contributor to weight loss or gain. It’s the food's effect on your metabolism that matters. * The health industry is now revisiting the high-fat, low-carb model due to recent studies revealing sugar and smoking as the primary causes of heart disease and not fat.

[13:56] Obesity in America * The rise of obesity rate in America happened during the 1980s when it released its first dietary guidelines on a high-carb, low-fat diet * The benefits of keto are therapeutic; it’s not a fad. * It’s difficult to gather all relevant data debunking fat as unhealthy; Proving a nutritional intervention prevents disease means controlling the diet of 1000 people for decades. * Studies show that a ketogenic diet is an effective intervention for some chronic illnesses.

[19:12] On Starting a Ketogenic Diet * Always consult with your physician first before trying a ketogenic diet. * Some might experience mild side effects because of their changing metabolism. * There are multiple benefits of keto: weight loss, fair skin complexion, protection from chronic diseases, and more.

[22:29] The Factors of Illness * Chronic diseases and cardiovascular diseases are interrelated. * Another one of the benefits of keto is as a therapeutic intervention for neurological disorders. * Insulin resistance, inflammation, and obesity are the axes of illness. Listen to the whole episode to learn how these three factors result in chronic diseases. * Most doctors treat the symptoms and not the disease. The root of diseases is at the cellular metabolic level.

[27:00] Poor Metabolic Health Amid the Pandemic * Most people who contracted COVID-19 are those with poor metabolic health. If we could solve the public's diet problem, we could reduce the burden on hospitals. * There are no definitive findings that keto can help decrease the risk of contracting COVID-19. However, studies show promising results on how it can boost one's immune system against the virus.

[33:52] The Benefits of Keto * Most postmenopausal women with chronic illnesses found that the benefits of keto include working against brain fog. * Ketone is a cleaner brain fuel and causes less inflammation. * Switching to a keto diet activates the essential proteins for a healthy brain.

[38:18] On Alzheimer’s Disease * Alzheimer’s is a form of type three diabetes or insulin resistance of the brain. * Suzanne de la Monte’s study found that exogenous ketones called MCT oil can improve the cognitive function of people with Alzheimer’s disease. * Ketones improve health and brain function.

[42:16] The Global Burden of Disease * Diet is the primary global burden of disease. * Approximately a sixth of the calories young people take in America is fructose. * To maintain a healthy life, avoid highly processed food and sugar.

[45:08] Why Natural is Not Always Good For You * Not all plants are good for our bodies and minds. * Plants don’t exist for good health. They’re there to do whatever it takes to survive. * The plants we eat today are not the same as our ancestors ate 50 years ago.

[48:56] Getting the Trend Right * Reduce your sugar, high glycemic index carbohydrates, flour, and the like to see great results on your health. * It’s okay to eat some treats, but you have to be conscious about it. There must be a limit set to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

[53:32] Keto Flu * Keto flu involves having cravings for food that you previously consumed. * In the first phase, it's good to take MCT oil to help familiarise your body with the ketones. * It's good to take lots of magnesium and potassium iIf you don't have any kidney problems. * Some might experience side effects when starting the keto diet. These include nausea, changes in stomach acid, brain fog, sleep disturbance, and the like. * Adapting to a keto diet decreases your insulin level that subsequently reduces your body water.

[55:57] Fully Adapting to Keto * The side effects of the keto diet may last for a couple of days. However, you’ll feel a sudden boost of energy once you get over the keto flu. * It’s not advisable to cycle in and out of keto. * The best lifestyle decision you can make every day is on what’s the end of your fork.

7 Powerful Quotes [10:48] ‘When you consider the calories to be the cause of weight loss or gain, you're going down the wrong road. It's the effect of the foods you eat on your metabolism—in particular, I would argue, on your hormone balance and insulin.’

[23:07] ‘If you're insulin resistant, you become more inflamed and more obese. If you're more obese, you become more insulin resistant. So they make each other worse…eventually, it results in a state of poor metabolic health that will then manifest itself…as one of these chronic diseases.’

[24:05] ‘The thing is you're treating the symptom, not the disease. So the disease is at the cellular metabolic level.’

[27:00] ‘If you look at the people that are having bad COVID outcomes, those are people with poor metabolic health—that is absolutely known. So if we can improve the overall metabolic health of the public, we would reduce the burden on our hospitals again.’

[35:44] 'What happens is you put these stressors on your cells to change its metabolism and that turns the genes on.'

[40:32] 'So we're realising that the ketones don't just provide optimal health. They might actually even improve brain function over and above what you expect.'

[45:52] ‘Plants aren't there for good health. They're there to do whatever it is that makes the plant more successful.’

About Prof David Harper Prof David Harper is a health educator, researcher, and technology CEO. He finished his Bachelor of Science and Doctorate in Mathematical biofluid dynamics from the University of British Columbia; and completed his post-doctoral fellowship in Comparative Physiology at the University of Cambridge.

He is an Associate Professor of Kinesiology at the University of the Fraser Valley and a visiting scientist at the BC Cancer Research Center, Terry Fox Laboratory.

He is also a member of the scientific advisory board of the Canadian Clinicians for Therapeutic Nutrition and the Institute for Personalised Therapeutic Nutrition.

His current research interest focuses on the therapeutic benefits of ketogenic diets among women with metastatic breast cancer. Due to his passion for studying the impact of diet on our health, he recently launched his book called: BioDiet: The Ketogenic Way to Lose Weight and Improve Health.

You can contact David through his social media channels: LinkedIn and Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they will know about the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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   **- Have you struggled to fit in training with your busy lifestyle?**  **- Maybe you are an absolute beginner and don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?** **- Or maybe you have been running for years but the huge mileage you used to do is not bringing the results and you don't know why.**  **- Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?**         Lisa and Neil discuss the facets of a good training system and how to apply them, what factors will give you longevity in the sport and how to avoid the most common pitfalls and mistakes.  Lisa and Neil share their backstory and what led them to co founding Running Hot Coaching.  They give insights into their back story, the mistakes they made, the lessons they learnt and the gems of wisdom discovered on the way. With a combined 45 years experience running the worlds toughest endurance events and coaching hundreds of athletes from around the world Lisa and Neil have a wealth of experience and insights to share.  If you would like to find out more about our holistic run training system visit our info page at htt**ps://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/info** **We would like to thank our sponsors** **Running Hot Coaching:**

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to: https://courses.lisatamati.co.nz

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Cancer is one of the most terrifying things to happen to anyone. Not only that, cancer treatments are always in a rush to remove tumours, making you think that this is the only way. Clinical practice is years behind clinical research, and there are now additional and alternative ways to boost your health and treat cancer.

The research can be difficult to understand and read through, especially when you’re in the thick of cancer. Our guests today share their newest project — a documentary all about the metabolic approach to cancer with researchers and cancer thrivers all in one place!

In this episode, Maggie Jones shares how her experience with cancer became the inspiration for CanceRevolution. She credits both traditional therapy and metabolic therapy as the key to treating her condition and prolonging her life. Brad and Maggie hope that their documentary can reach people and spread the word about the metabolic approach. Don’t just blindly follow doctors who won’t have the time to do research for you. Instead, start taking ownership of your health!

If you want to learn more about fighting cancer through the metabolic approach and the CanceRevolution documentary, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how Maggie’s journey with cancer led her and her husband to work on the upcoming documentary, CanceRevolution. 2. Learn about traditional radiation therapy and how incorporating the metabolic approach to cancer can help you! 3. Find out how to take ownership of your health and stay disciplined even after beating cancer.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
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Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:00] Maggie’s Journey with Cancer * In 2018, Maggie was diagnosed with lung cancer and was told that she had less than a year to live. * At first, Maggie accepted her fate, but she started to learn more about how she can help her body heal. * She took up fasting, a ketogenic diet, organic foods, and metabolic treatments. A year after her diagnosis, she was cancer-free. * While Maggie is not dealing with cancer anymore, she has been dealing with the effects of cancer medicine that was used on her. * Cancer treatment often feels too rushed. It would be better to spread out treatments and lower their dosage.

[08:27] How Maggie’s Cancer Affected Brad * Brad tried to hide how much Maggie’s cancer impacted him emotionally. * At the same time, he felt that Maggie was strong enough to face and survive cancer. * He learned all about metabolic treatments through Maggie and served as her reminder. * Brad even started eating Maggie’s diet and fasted with her.

[12:13] How Fasting Can Help Before Treatments * Maggie used to think eating healthy was good. After a tumour surgery, she was vomiting and sweating. * However, she tried fasting before the surgery and found that she felt great after the procedure. * Fasting is known to be able to “close” normal cells while the cancer cells are still active and looking for energy. * When exposed to radiation, the cancer cells get more affected. * Clinical research takes around 17 years before becoming part of clinical practice.

[15:39] Genetics and Epigenetics * Combining hyperbaric therapy, a strict diet, and exogenous ketones can make a big difference. Yet, this practice is not common in cancer treatment. * The industry focuses more on DNA, even though there have been more discoveries about biochemistry since then. * Genetics and epigenetics are different. The former is about the genes themselves, while the latter looks at what turns the genes on and off. * Our environment and behaviour affect the way our genes work. * Differentiation of cells is the true cause of aging.

[18:49] The Warburg Effect * Cancers can and will change their way of using energy. Even when oxygen is available, cancer cells use fermentation, which is not as efficient. * The Warburg effect is already a fact. What’s not being studied is why this is happening. * There is the genetic theory where genes mutate and cause cell changes, while the other theory is the other way around. * Cutting off the cancer cells’ food source is the start. This includes glucose, glutamine, and so much more. * You can block cancer cell growth with diet, off label drugs, and specific protocols for specific cancers. Learn more about these in the full episode!

[24:48] Why Starving Cancer Can Help * The biggest criticism of starving cancer is that cancer cells can adapt to different metabolic pathways. * While starving cancer may not lead to curing it, it can help you buy time. * The drug protocols have lower side effects than traditional therapy and radiation surgery.

[25:48] How to Use Press Pulse * Due to cancer’s adaptability, you can expect to change protocols every so often. * Maggie shares that press pulse can be helpful. * This is using a certain protocol first, then switching to something else once cancer adapts and eventually reintroducing the first protocol.

[27:57] Always Be Vigilant * Brad cautions people not to think they’re cured of cancer and go back to unhealthy foods and habits. * We all have some cancer cells. Your immune system needs to be strong enough to fight against it. * Even if your cancer markers are gone, retaining a ketogenic diet can still be helpful. * Exogenous ketones are not fermentable as a food source for cancer.

[33:05] Maggie and Brad’s Documentary, CanceRevolution * Maggie and Brad’s documentary about cancer includes guests who are at the forefront of cancer research and people who have experienced cancer. * The documentary is still a work in progress. Donations are highly appreciated. * This is all about sharing the metabolic approach to cancer and understanding how cancer works. * In the medical profession, doctors can lose their license if they go all-in on the metabolic approach, even if it has been proven effective. * The profession has shown that money drives what is promoted or not. Thus, we need to be proactive and take ownership of our health.

[42:36] Take Ownership of Your Health * While somatic mutation, genetic theory, and metabolic theory are not yet proven, technologies can be built around it to prove it. * For example, the PET scan is a cancer diagnostics tool based on the Warburg Effect. * As a patient, you have to be your own advocate and not just blindly listen to doctors. Read books and clinical research. * Remember that you’re in control of your body.

7 Powerful Quotes [9:18] “When, we were together, I just always had this feeling that she was going to make it through. I don't know why, but I was just like — I knew my wife. I knew how strong she was. And if anyone is going to fight this disease, it's her.” — Bradley

[25:05] “I was given the six to eight months to live. My starving cancer bought me another three years of life. This is time to address the next pathway when it comes up and to wait for the next conventional therapy that might help me and all the new research that's coming out. Though it's not going to cure your cancer, it's going to buy you time and buy you incredible quality of life.” — Maggie

[28:30] “It's really hard to be completely cured. Your cancer is always somewhere. We all have some. My immune system is holding its own, whilst Maggie’s wasn’t. That's basically what happened is her immune system couldn't fight it off anymore.” — Bradley

[32:21] “So having these exogenous ketones can really help just for athletes, as well as cancer patients, but it's really — it's teaching your body to be metabolically flexible.” — Lisa

[34:12] “...she's [Dr Nasha Winters] lived such a powerful life helping others. She was diagnosed too late in her progression to ever receive chemotherapy. And I think that's really what we can all strive for is even if scans aren’t perfect, you can still live such a long, full life and don't give up hope.” — Maggie

[49:32] “One of the things that Maggie and I tell try and tell everyone is you have to be — as a patient, you have to be your own advocate. Do not just listen to what your doctor is saying — your oncologist or any doctor. They only meet with you for a half hour, right? Like Maggie sees her oncologist for like about a half hour once every three months.” — Bradley

[55:11] “I'm not unlucky. There are very clear therapeutic things that I can do, that I did to get cancer, that I can do to get out of it. And we need to promote this message of you're in control of your medical destiny. Don't just listen to somebody else who tells you it's a lost cause.” — Maggie

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Lifespan by David Sinclair with Matthew D LaPlante * Lifespan Podcast with Dr David Sinclair * Want to learn more about how to manage and treat cancer? Check out our previous episodes: * + Episode 231: The Immune System and How It Fights Cancer Cells and Viruses with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + Episode 229: Cancer Treatments: Starve Cancer, Be Free From It with Jane McLelland + Episode 227: Fighting Cancer and Other Diseases Using the Ketogenic Diet with Dr Dominic D’Agostino * Learn more about the use of Vitamin C from our past episodes: * + Episode 171: Vitamin C for the Critically Ill with Dr Anita Carr + Episode 169: Vitamin C in Sepsis and ARDS Treatment with Dr Alpha “Berry” Fowler + Episode 168: Vitamin C for Cancer Treatment with Professor Margaret Vissers + Episode 167: Curing the Uncurable with Vitamin C with Dr Thomas Levy MD, JD + Episode 164: The Power of Intravenous Vitamin C with Dr Ron Hunninghake * Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer * Support CanceRevolution and learn more about the documentary! * Stay updated with CanceRevolution: Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | Youtube * Connect with Brad Jones: LinkedIn | Website | Twitter | Instagram * Connect with Maggie Jones: LinkedIn

About Maggie and Brad Jones Maggie Jones has over 20 years of media experience and is currently the Vice President of Newsrooms Systems for South China Morning Post and Vice President of Product for Tribune Publishing and the Los Angeles Times. She is also the founder of Jones Wellness, LLC, a content creation, marketing, and consulting firm in the wellness and nutrition space. In addition, she is a stage 4 cancer thriver who credits metabolic therapy and conventional targeted therapy in prolonging her life.

Brad Jones has over 20 years of filmmaking experience and is the Executive Producer of Jones Wellness, LLC. He has edited films, from a Peabody Award-winning documentary to the highest-rated shows on MTV and CMT and has spent over a decade working at the Sundance Film Lab and Festival.

Know more and support their upcoming documentary, CanceRevolution!

You can also connect with Brad on his website, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Connect with Maggie on LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the metabolic approach to cancer.

Have any questions about the different approaches to cancer? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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The key to living a long and happy life is taking care of your body. Regular exercise and a proper diet contribute significantly to your overall health. That’s why it’s essential to learn about nutrients such as carbohydrates, protein, and fats to identify the type of food that your body needs. With the proper diet and exercise, you will find yourself feeling better, stronger, and faster than ever.

Joining us in this episode of Pushing the Limits is Professor Tim Noakes, a published author and researcher of science. He shares his realisations about the effects of a high-carbohydrate diet and how lessening it can improve performance and health. He also discusses the importance of drinking water when you’re physically active. Through his research, Professor Noakes has changed many people's approaches towards their diet.

If you want to learn more about how you can strengthen your body and live healthily, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how humans have evolved and adapted throughout the years. 2. Discover the best diet for you according to Professor Noakes’ guidelines. 3. Learn why you should avoid overdrinking and how your body knows best when it comes to water.

Resources * Love the podcast? Become a patron and get exclusive access to bonus content! * Listen to more episodes, get the most out of your genes and find more information about Lisa and her work on her website. * The Lore of Running, 4th Edition by Tim Noakes * Waterlogged by Tim Noakes * Association Between Fatigue and Failure to Preserve Cerebral Energy Turnover During Prolonged Exercise, an academic paper by Nybo, Møller, Pedersen, Nielsen and Secher (2003) * More about athletes Bruce Fordyce and Dave Scott * CrossFit * Connect with Professor Noakes and the Noakes Foundation on their website

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:09] Professor Noakes’ Career * Professor Noakes went to medical school before shifting to research and science. * He started writing the Lore of Running for the public, which is currently ongoing with its fifth revision. * Originally a supporter of the high-carbohydrate diet, he realised he was giving the wrong dietary advice after struggling with Type II Diabetes. * He lost funding from his university due to this realisation but won the case in court using well-proven science. * With his research, he now teaches the proper management of diabetes.

[07:50] Against the Food Industry * Professor Noakes lost funding from a company in the food industry after he stopped promoting their grain-based diet. * He was sued for his book, Waterlogged, because it went against the sports drink industry.

[12:30] The Pressure from the Academe * Academic mobbing is the pressure to quit your academic work. * Professionals such as deans and professors went against Prof Noakes. * Professor Noakes chose research and science because of the toxic environment in the field of medicine. * The academic and medical profession is brutal, with long work hours and debt.

[15:39] Diet Guidelines * Professor Noakes recommends eating based on what humans have evolved to eat. * Historically, humans have hunted big animals and turned to agriculture for food. * While reasonably healthy, vegetarian diets can be expensive and require highly refined food. * He advises eating non-processed and animal-based food.

[19:17] The Human’s Digestive Evolution * The human diet used to be mainly animal produce. Carbohydrates were only eaten during shortages. * It isn’t easy to adapt from an animal-based, high-fat diet to a high-grain diet in a short period. * Gorillas have certain digestive mechanisms that can break down carbohydrates into fat. * Humanity’s evolution as hunters resulted in a shorter bowel that is ideal for eating animal produce.

[23:47] On Long-Distance Running * Running is not a sustainable activity to bring into older age. * Orthopedic problems can develop, especially after decades. It is not an ideal long-term activity.

[26:22] Weight Control * Removing carbohydrates helped Professor Noakes control his weight. * He also found amazing benefits from his biweekly CrossFit sessions complemented with running. * Now, he has more muscle mass and better flexibility than before.

[30:52] Professor Noakes’ Writing * Professor Noakes is rewriting the Lore of Running to debunk myths and misconceptions. * He is also working on an article about eating before or after exercise. * He recently discovered the reason why carbohydrates are necessary for exercise. * Regardless of your diet, avoiding hypoglycemia during exercise is the main goal.

[37:05] Preventing Cancer Through Diet * The low-carb, high-fat diet is ideal for preventing cancer. * Insulin resistance, which can develop from a long-term high-carb diet, underlies most cancers.

[40:30] Busting Myths * The central government theory is true. * Reduction of exercise performance to reduce lactate and glycogen is a myth. * Measuring oxygen consumption and glycogen muscle storage is unimportant. * His friend once subscribed to a high-carb diet before switching to low carbs. His running greatly improved. * Dave Scott, a well-known athlete, has also seen improvements after changing his diet.

[45:39] What to Drink When Running * Homeostatic regulation allows you to determine if you need to drink more to keep normal sodium levels. * Drinking too much water can cause hyponatremia, which is when your sodium levels drop, causing brain swelling and reduced brain blood flow. * A genetic defect causing the oversecretion of hormones can cause you to drink too much. * It is best for marathon runners to drink only when they feel thirsty. * Dehydration is not a medical condition. Your body can maintain normal levels as long as you drink when needed.

7 Powerful Quotes [17:02] ‘The answer is we got to go back to eating what the Maoris were eating, or the Australian Aborigines. [T]hey were eating fish and other foods from the land.’ — Professor Tim Noakes

[21:34] ‘We’re designed to eat animal produce, which is digested in the small bowel. That's how we evolved, and that allowed us to get our hips to narrow. That allowed us to start running because our knees came closer together; we could run more effectively. And then we became bigger hunters. And that then helped us evolve further.’ — Professor Tim Noakes

[26:07] ‘I do a lot of strength work and yoga and things like that to balance things out. I feel a ton healthier — day and night healthy. I can manage my weight much better. I was fatter when I was running the distances.’ — Lisa Tamati

[28:26] ‘I do an hour or two twice a week, and it's 40 minutes really odd but really, really odd. Then I came to complement that with some running, but that's what I need. I've bulked up. I've put on five kilograms of muscle at the age of 72. I'm lifting weights that I could never even consider when I was younger.’ — Professor Tim Noakes

[29:40] ‘I was having spasms 10 times a day. Then I started doing CrossFit and I worked my way up. Now it’s been years without a single spasm. I do not have back pain and I have a very, very strong core. And I work on the core and I maintain it because the back injury is still there but I don't have any issues.’ — Lisa Tamati

[44:41] ‘He wrote to me about four years ago and says to me, “I've just read your book, and I changed my diet.” And he said, “I wish I'd been eating this diet all my life.”’— Professor Tim Noakes

[49:28] ‘You don't need to be told when to drink. Your body will tell you when to drink. So you just drink to thirst, and that's absolutely what is the case. You drink to thirst, and you'll be fine.’ — Professor Tim Noakes

About Professor Noakes Professor Tim Noakes is an author and researcher focusing on sports and exercise science. Alongside Morné du Plessis, he helped found the Sports Science Institute of South Africa. There, they expanded the limits of research for sports science and encouraged interest in the field.

Professor Noakes’ book, Lore of Running, is often considered the bible of running. His other book, Waterlogged, talks about his research on exercise-associated hyponatremia. Professor Noakes has published over 750 scientific books and articles and has won multiple awards for his contributions to sports science.

Learn more about Professor Tim Noakes by visiting The Noakes Foundation. You can also connect with him on Twitter and Facebook.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Everyone knows Lisa loves Ultramarathon running and with a career in extreme sports spanning 25 years she's knows a thing or two about the good side and the not so good side to the sport and shares in this candid podcast all the pros, the benefits to mind and body but also the much less talked about downsides and risks so you can mitigate those and have fun on the trails, mountains, roads and deserts. Ultramarathon running Pros & Cons Timestamp:

Pros

0:44 Telemers, longevity, flow

8:00 The mental side of ultramarathon

12:50 Ancestral aspect

14:25 Average age is high

16:02 why women excel in ultra running

17:15 Teaches us to face fear & anxiety

18:20 Community

Cons

19:32 can be dangerous & Time-consuming

22:00 body damage

23:30 Burnout

24:30 Stress

27:11 Injuries

29:13 burning muscle mass

31:15 lung situation

We would like to thank our sponsors:

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All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (01:03)
But generally speaking, you're going to be better. You're going to have better of cardiovascular health who are going to have no a BMI usually. So you would lose weight through doing distance running. It's also good for your, we have a lower incidence of stroke. We have a lower incidence of heart disease. We have a lower incidence. Even off came some when we flew out to marathons regularly. It slows down the aging process to some degree. In fact, one of the interesting statistics that came up and one of the studies that are made was that your telling me is I lengthened by on average and leaving the scene. Now you might be thinking, what the hell it's telling me is that I did a whole podcast on telling me is I've got a show called pushing the limits. I'll give you a small plug for that.

Speaker 2: (01:57)
And I had a world's leading experience on anti aging on podcasts who also happens to be an ultra marathon runner. That's how I know him Dr Bill Andrews and he is an expert in Telomeres which are the little caps at the end of your DNA. And as they replicate and the cells replicate themselves throughout life, these get shorter and shorter and shorter. And this is what dictates the length of our lives basically. And so ultra marathon runners t on average have 11% longer telomeres, which equates to around 16 years of lifespan on average. That's a massive, massive difference and a good reason to be doing ultra marathon running. Okay. So you're going to have long been telling me is going to have good cardiovascular health, you're going to have a lower incidence of stroke, lower incidents of cancer. And these are all based on studies.

Speaker 2: (02:53)
I won't cite all the studies here cause it would just be boring. But if you want to go out and do the research, you can find these studies as well. Now one of the other pros, just besides that, well, you also got to have the advantage of mental, more mental strength. So there's a couple of aspects. Look at this. From a running perspective, many, many ultra marathon Manas would tell you that ultra marathon running has saved them from depression, from mental health issues. That helps them overcome a whole lot of, certainly was a lifesaver for me. I dealt with depression for many, many years and ultra marathon running really pulled me out of it. Now why doesn't do that? Well, number one, being outside in nature hesitancy the spirits, it's good for the soul. It's helps you. We actually either, I think it's about an NC three that we were out in nature a whole lot boards.

Speaker 2: (03:57)
So when you're out doing ultra marathons and training for marathons who are naturally outside, you're getting your sunshine, vitamin D, you're giving up your endorphins as well the net whole times, and they're actually helping make the actually feel beat up. So for mental health, I think ultra marathon running is a really, really one of the, one of the big pros of that and helps us feel better physically and mentally and helps the, our hormones and so on. Now I will go over in the constitution, how will you do too much in the negative effects it can have on that. But when I'm doing all the parts, all right, it can also help you get into a flow state. So I read a really good book called stealing fire and it was all about how do you get yourself in the flow state, in your flow state and state.

Speaker 2: (04:49)
Stay with me. Occasionally get into when you're in a really creative space or when things are really rolling really well. And in the running world, this some site is called the violence tie. When you're actually floating here, we've gone through all the Hubstaff in a spice where it's just absolutely amazing, freezing along and just loving life. It's feeling powerful and strong and like one forever. Now that is low state and you can get into flow state when you're being creative assets, making jewelry. Like I do that also in money and this is a very hot and state. We you know, a lot of advances are highly recommend reading that book, stealing fire. We want to know a little bit about that and the runner's high all of that sort of good stuff. So you're gonna also have on average a lower BMI. You going to bet on your body.

Speaker 2: (05:41)
And this is a very good thing. I'll go into the negative sides, how it things muscle a little bit later and slowing down the aging that the telling me is, it also helps you have stronger bones. So contrary to popular belief, a lot of people come and to me, but you're going to Ricky joints running and I'm like, no, you're not going to join running. And lease you have a very, very poor running style. Yes, you could be doing some damage and great mostly. And if you've got, you know, something physically wrong, let's say we'll pose you or one foot longer than the other or those sorts of things, that's for the general average person. You're not going to Ricky points running ultra marathons. Ultra marathons are also usually done in a very sedate pace, not sprinting because for so long and so there's least impact.

Speaker 2: (06:33)
So high impact sports where you're changing direction and doing that sort of thing usually ends up with more Dwayne and breeds. Then ultra marathon moneymoon actually was going along nice and slowly. Now when you are doing the short chaps or the sports like netball or tennis for you ask, stop and start, you actually create stronger bones then runs through runners. If you take a cross section of the bones and nations for example, our action strong work and doing those spots that pop to things that for things like your knees, your hips, you're not actually going to do a heck of a lot of chem. It's some Jasper anything along in a very nice today pace. And so as an ultra marathon man and that if you're doing sprints in your or they'd run out and that can be a little bit different because you're putting a lot more load through the body, but generally you're going to have stronger bones.

Speaker 2: (07:27)
So the old method that you're going to wear your joints out and all that sort of thing is in my opinion, a myth. And I'll front I of a 70,000 case and sit by my knees and my, my hips and everything is good, touch wood. And basically my, my take on that is that no life's bad yet and you've been we're out or rushed out. So the Muslim we'd sell know you're gonna do it. And there are ways and what we do at running hot coaching is to try to spring from your body so that you don't have as much fear and tear so that you're running correctly, that you're having good planning technique and all of those sorts of parts because as well, now going back to the whole meeting side of it, ultra marathon runners tend to be very focused, very high achieving people, people with a type a personalities and sit themselves.

Speaker 2: (08:15)
Big goals. Now I don't know what comes first, the chicken or the belts marathon or having this type of thing, senility, but on average the marathon is a very focused, a high achieving people so that the tops, even one on one floor because they're going to be hitting job done. We're very good at gold seating. And we're very good at overcoming obstacles now, ultra marathon running. And to know it takes a long time. It takes massive amount of discipline. It requires sacrifice. It requires that you can push through pain, never sometimes you boredom, you have to go through all and you have to understand the whole risk of what I'm doing for. So there are lot of skills that you learn along the way as an ultra marathon runner that can really benefit every other aspect of your life. In fact, this is what my, my, what my bread and butter is, is going in talking to corporates and doing motivational speaking and talking about the benefits that you get when we push outside the comfort zone.

Speaker 2: (09:23)
You bring something like ultramarathons and it's not just there, but and how you can apply those lessons into dining life. Now if any of you know me know my story with my mum and if I had been an ultra marathon runner, I don't think I would have had, I know I wouldn't have had the skills to be able to fight through all the obstacles that we faced. The fear and bringing her back to full health again. And so I'm a real proponent on the power of all of those things that you learned while pushing the limits that will help you in life. And on that note, I've got mum's book, I've just finished writing mum's book. It's now at formatting stage and it will be being released in March, 2020. The book was called relentless and it's telling the story of what I did and how I want my mum back from being in the, not much over a vegetative state to being full back into life fully and the payment, driver's license, everything and the journey that we need bond, there's a lot of mindset stuff with a lot of personal development.

Speaker 2: (10:29)
There's a lot of toughness. It's always have lots of stories from the running because that sort of illustrates a lot of these points. So from a legal point of view, the students that you will learn and you're pushing the stuff that they wrote from their phones, I've gone to benefit for everything in your life, whether it's or you know, corporate job or whether it's new studying for something or you're just your editor or your business, you'll be able to push through barriers and keep going. You learn persistence, you learn discipline, you learn to overcome obstacles. You learn to think outside the square. You learned to deal with fear and keep moving anyway. You learn to work for massive fatigue and pain and keep going and just doing so many great things. And that fire, he liked that of going for an ultra marathon who stained you in really good state for everything in life.

Speaker 2: (11:22)
Now, on average, a ultra marathon runners also have less sick ties. So from an employer's perspective, these are the guys you want to be blind because they're going to have nice time off, especially as I get older this time off for my medical problems. And they States [inaudible] statistical fact from studies that have been done. So another good breeze. Now another one is confidence. The men, a confidence that you're going to get when you push yourself and you overcome obstacles to achieve an ultramarathon, then who are going to have a lot more confidence or anything that you're going to be facing a lot now doing ultra-marathons typically they are in places that are beautiful, amazing off the beaten track. I mean, I've had the privilege of running now raising prices around the world. I've done a 2000 cases to hire of the Moroccans to Howard's tossed the museum, the Arabian visit, the Olympian [inaudible], Jordan Gobi desert, fifth Valley and USA different paths in the Outback of Australia, the Indian Himalayas, hip laced Himalayas, you know, and build on the forest.

Speaker 2: (12:31)
So you know, these, these races typically run in some pretty out the special places where you get to experience different cultures and experience itself in these different functions, in a different environment and pushing your limits. So stuff that you learned there is also super, super valuable from an institutional point of view. I truly believe that we are born to run this. My good friend Chris McDougall's book born to onesies. We are born around this. This is what our ancestors have done throughout millennia is moved. Well, we'll run long distances every single day. And that's what keeps us healthy and strong. And we are very good at that. We back in the caveman days, we were doing consistent hunting when we would at run out pray. So this has a long, long history. It's not just Monday mean woman out the influence of marathons. This has history to it.

Speaker 2: (13:32)
Since what we've done. In fact, I've tried to get off the ground a TV series called run the planet. A friend of mine and we tried it. We ended up doing islet for the series and the Outback of Australia reenacting an Aboriginal median of the prime. And that was just one of the stories that we uncovered. We uncovered all these phones all around the world, different tribes that were proof that as humans, we've always done this long visit stuff. I mean, if you've read, born to run, if you haven't must go on, we bet book as well. That's more about the Tarahumara and the insulin non for their insurance Bates. So this really goes back to now and since from way of being and I think it's, you know, part of the reason why we, we do so well in the sport now the other exists, you don't have to be 20 years old, be successful in this sport.

Speaker 2: (14:35)
You don't, your life isn't over. It's 25. In fact, an ultra marathon running the average age is about 42 for ultra marathon manners. The average age of the first time ultrarunners is 30 sect. Your endurance apparently doesn't pick around, 48 and from there on it's only a very slow decline. So a 19 year old and a 64 year old are currently on the same Naval and there's lots of sets that I've come up with. These are from different studies, as I said. So it's the sort of thing Excel at later on life. And you also will find that the more experience that you have, the baby you will become. So it's not just about things, but physically it's very much about having experienced by some different situations and different difficulties from having the ability to overcome those affect, make seeds.

Speaker 2: (15:34)
So age doesn't have to be a barrier in ultra marathon money, which it is for most sports. Let's be honest. You can't be a professional rugby player at the age of the new can't, you know, I don't know the top of your game and netball, you know, later on in life you have to have done it early days. Certainly the things that gymnastics and so on, they'd say it's young person's fault, but this is really a sport. The people that sell in experience counts. Another great thing I think is that woman did particularly well and ultra marathon running because it's statistically Minnesota better than us over the other, the, you know, distances. But the longer the distance that, the closer that gets. And certainly in some of the biggest vices in the world, a woman has been on the top of the podium. Many fonts.

Speaker 2: (16:24)
So there's not that much difference. The plane, the sixes as there is most sports, Europe comes down to muscle, out of spring or all out speed because ultra marathoning is really more about what's up here and how come we have a, it's women. We have a I've read some studies that we have a beta ability to bring, set then advised on average. I don't know what the latest studies are on that, but it does seem in my experience of running all around the world and seeing Hogan and muse license we often would close to the top if not at the top. And I'm diff Valley for a couple of times, a woman's field top of the podium. And so it's quite exciting. Sort of labels out the the differences in the sixes and the different sense. And it also teaches you the overcome fears.

Speaker 2: (17:20)
I think this is one of the biggest advances in say we have fear every day in our lives and move by some difficult situations and huge amount of change and transformation that we're going through as a society. And learning to deal with Thea and function anyway isn't really good thing. And you do have fears when are doing out cause suspicion. If you're doing in bang like item fuck, I've done a lot of them. Or if you're running through the night in the middle of the mountain or somewhere on your own, same theory. You know, so you learn to function with that. It can also lower your anxiety if you're out wounding up cortisol and well it's not completely true. Do smell cortisol when you're actually training, but on average it no is more anxiety because we'd go outside and stuff. Okay.

Speaker 2: (18:15)
So those are all of the pros that I've come up with for ultra marathon money and four, there's a whole lot more. Another great thing is that you belong to a pretty expensive corporate people. You know, it's only like 0.0 is there. 0.1% of the population or whatever it is that actually does ultramarathons and certainly in the longer ultra-marathons. So you know, for the paddle and the social aspect because I'm so not to be underestimated, typically in not marathoning. It's not just about the winners and it's not just about winning, it's about overcoming the self and overcoming the obstacles and human nature. It's not all for most of us, it's not about being at the top of the podium. And that's not the number one thing that people cite when they were made set out to do marathon. And it isn't even worth that time.

Speaker 2: (19:08)
It's not like marathon running where it's all about what's fun to do, doing on the three hours, one to four hours or whatever you about Aaron. It's all very, you know, a measuring contest. It's not so much the same as we've certainly in trial visits. It's far more about finding out what you're made of in becoming stronger doing it. So it meets only out to some of the cons of it. This is bad. This is all running out marathons or the dangers of funny marathons. Socially, some of these are run very dangerous places. Like I said I had some pretty scary times and some of those pieces between the Sahara and Egypt and Niger, Jordan and places that were, you know, pretty dodgy. Not only from a nature to speak of but also from the people and going from bull zones and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: (20:03)
Okay. So whoever don't know phone, but we do put ourselves in dangerous situations. Sometimes we might be running for mountains in the middle of the night and what the alone. So there is an element of danger a lot on it as a, you know, the draw card of this, but it is possible just bonded. The next thing for disadvantages on say would be like sacrificing hell of a lot of time in the, in your life to do an ultra marathon. Even though like we money coaching and coaching can speak of and not high mileage poachers. So we try to keep the time commitment within reason to prepare for marathons. And we probably have spring training and Emma ability training and the nutrition and the mindset is part of all that echoed. However, it's still a relatively based in this sort of to prepare well for an ultra marathon.

Speaker 2: (21:05)
In this means sacrificing time with your loved ones, your children, your partner, your business, your life. You know, it goes on bold when you're appearing for something scary rights. And that followed back over my life. I probably asked a lot of of my, you know, my husband or my, my parents certainly and my friends to, you know, put up with the fact that I'm not really available for them cause I'm off funding some ridiculous thing every day. So there is a real big sacrifice and that's something that, you know, the last couple of years I couldn't do, I had to reborrow my life with mum being so ill and with business and you know, you can't always commit to that level of dedication that doesn't require it. Makes it difficult okay. So what are some of the other stuff right from a, from a health speak though?

Speaker 2: (22:01)
I'll tell you some of the, the, the health issues that I've come across. And these may or may not affect you. And I've done some pretty extreme things to my body. So, you know, take this with a grain of salt doing it. Okay. You're not going to have a lot of dates, but you can get problems with your kidneys. So rhabdomyolysis is a very common problem among salt marathon one. So this is where your body starts to break down. It's muscle proteins and if the crystals get pumped up into your kidneys, and this can cause kidney damage. Now this is usually temporary but rhabdomyolysis and something that needs to type seriously with new set to say like pockets and fluid and you're getting a little Tommy, you would normally wouldn't. And you're racing in. It could be that your kidneys are having a hard time keeping up with the breakdown of the muscles that's happening.

Speaker 2: (22:58)
So kidney damage is a, is a, it's a real problem, especially if you're also running dehydrated and they looked spray me hot climates. That's what I specialized in. And I had read the Milo's this dozens of times in my life and I have kidney problems. One of the reasons why I'm not doing anything don't really want to end up on dialysis and they're not near that yet. But if I want to have longevity, the net is something that has made two problems. Another problem that I ran into is burnout and adrenal exhaustion. So I have made the trouble with my HPA access to hyper cell on that three adrenal exes. My cortisol levels are got out from the amount of stress that I've put my body and my mind through the life. So not just ultra running, but we've had a big play crushing the absolute boundaries of time.

Speaker 2: (24:00)
And this is had other knock on effects for my house that can't hundred percent par light, but I believe it's contributed to a lot of the problems that I've got. So burnout is a real problem. Cortisol As a problem. Cortisol cortisol Titans, cortisol graph of, of what your cortisol is doing during the day. We can do this for we could save it. That's not good. And cortisol is the responsible for so many things in their life and their body. So we need our bodies on the streets for example. They, we are shutting down our immune system. We're not shutting it down, but we have definitely hindering our immune system. We are hindering out by distance systems so we can end up with just the problems and we could get sick and we're opening the door to lots of problems and possible diseases cause we are on the streets and since threes we either it comes in the form of maintenance freeze or from running marathons or from a emotional stress, from relationships and so on.

Speaker 2: (25:10)
All of these things, you have a stress bucket and if you're putting too much into it and ultra marathon training, aid running is a big part of that story slowed. So if you have a very bad express job and would have very hot and streets relationship and children and men, you've gone from marathon money on top of that, you can overload your bucket and you can in that major trap. Trouble. Health wise you can stress is the number one killer in the world. Okay, so in something that needs to be taken into consideration, exercise is a form of stress for your body. It's a form of stress that when we are not overloaded with other thoughts and sprays that we say good for us and causes us to adapt and change to get stronger. However, if you are overdoing it over, over committing more resources to the training thing, stress can be very, very big for meaningful to every health system in your body, from your hormones, for your adrenalin's, your cortisol, straighten your heart through United that it your budgets and system, your immune system.

Speaker 2: (26:18)
As I say, all of these affect us can be effective and that's one of the reasons why running hot coat thing, we had something called a wellness cheek, which is, it's a simple little spreadsheet that we liked to get our athletes to fill out every day to see where they're sitting. On a span of one to 10, how would your sleep, how was your experience with those? How were your injuries? And we have a homeless. The things that they go through and if they very low scores, they will pull them back on the train and if they have very high scores in, they can go for it. You can also do this with heart rate variability. If you've got a access to a monitors that will check your heart rate, your ability and we'll give you sort of similar feedback. So whether you use the analog or about thinking outage that doesn't something that we need to keep an eye on.

Speaker 2: (27:06)
The total stress. So don't get into overtraining. I mean, of course another negative effect is possible injuries, whether that's, you know, breaking language or fell over or twisting your ankle or hitting overused injuries. We'd have problems with amazement, MEPS in the back or these things. And a lot of this chain be mitigated, can't be rolled out obviously, but can be mitigated like doing run specific spring training and training. And that's what we're really big on the spring training for Latinas. It's not cross training, it is running frame. It's a part of running frame. Need to be doing a strength boot that needs strong hips, needs, strong core, we need strong alphabet needs, strong quads. And all of these things have a, a real one to one correlation with how many injuries you will face over your lifetime. So strength training is a really important aspect for that end, so as mobility, but it's strictly a straight thing.

Speaker 2: (28:02)
Your [inaudible] yoga, your myofacial release message, find Molly or those things don't complete those aspects. We were really big on those and making sure that you're doing those and don't run into these injury problems. And things like yoga can really calm the body down and get you into a parasympathetic state. So this means that you actually lowering the splits, lowering for the sole release and best for really benefit you as well. So it's about balancing them out. So meditation, deep breathing exercises, yoga or these things help balance out the running training. So running planning is a sympathetic activity, meaning it's texting the sympathetic nervous system. It's not parasympathetic, it's not meditation, it's not slowing income down. It's doing the opposite. So sometimes the need to balance that out with, with doing that mobility with doing things like meditation and the breathing and just lowering what's gained those crystals.

Speaker 2: (29:11)
And so overall street school one of the things that ultra marathon money or negative part of it is that it's a catabolic activity by nature, which means it is eating your muscles slowly and doing an ultra, a really long rope trust. They have the motto blot be earning a hell of a lot of Massimo's which is bad for your kidneys but also bad for your musculoskeletal system. And so we need to counteract that with spring training so that you don't end up losing muscle mass and see a lot of older runners especially who look like, you know, beef jerky for the one that I've been away. Very, very thin, very low B in mind, but also very low muscle nays and we don't, it is not good. It is better from a cardiovascular point of view and a B in my point of view.

Speaker 2: (30:06)
And it's not great from a muscle. We need muscles. We need strength. And we made these aspects to, to keep them strong. We don't want bowl, but we do want strong, you know, strong and muscles that can help us stay up white when we're running on times that helps out this out some of the other sorts of things. So that's, that's that side of it. The catabolic problems. You can also have some basic things happen to like problems with your eyes and you're always outside running and Bri wouldn't be fine. That's, I'm seeing quite a few iron injuries. Sleep deprivation and you're running through days doing outros and even in the training they sleep, trying to fit into your life plus training. So these are negative things. Sleep is just absolutely virtual. Obviously when you're doing an ultra marathon, you in the middle of a under model or a 200 K or what even moved on to have sleep deprivation and you're gonna be completely Gaga.

Speaker 2: (31:07)
But if in daily life at least can try and given an adequate amount of our slate. Another thing that we have more of is, is math on manners is upper respiratory ailments. So we are more like asthma, we're more likely to have exercise and boots. Asthma, we're likely to have hay fever and allergies cause we're using our lives a lot. We're breathing hard out and so we need to be aware of those and we're not the thing that it's since I've begged for, and I have this on advice from my midwife that it can be quite bad for the pelvic floor for women. And I don't know all the details of that, but we can have problems. So running super long distance, not great for the public form. We need to camp right fit once, gave with some strength exercises typically during outfits and also quite often face things like hitting the wall and nausea and vomiting and distant tree.

Speaker 2: (32:09)
It's a very glamorous sport. This one. And those are things that people typically passed pretty quickly, but very unpleasant in the moment. And Kim, we ruin your eyes. It's that bad. So I hope I've covered a lot of ground today. Talk flat stick that all the pros and the cons. And I've got two pages here that I've written notes of and I'll tell you what is twice as many pros as there is cons. So just remember that there is some, there, there is some things that you need to be aware of and mitigate. There's also massive amounts of things that are really, really beneficial. So if you've liked this a little sessions today, please give us Amin. I've left a five star rating on iTunes. These little things really help content producers like me, get our word out and get known for what, what you're teaching.

Speaker 2: (33:03)
So all of that help us. Really, really appreciate it guys. So thanks for listening today. If you've brought any questions, please reach out to me. I'd love to talk to you about your running that, your health fitness about hormones. We do a whole lot of health pissing at running hot potions and we're not strictly one coaches and also health coaches. We also do genetic testing and we also have mindset mindset Academy. So if you are interested in any of those sorts of things, please let me know, right guys, thanks very much for your time today and we'll see you.

Speaker 1: (33:34)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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Marathon des Sables, also known as MdS or the Sahara Marathon, is a seven-day ultramarathon of 250 kilometres in the Sahara Desert. It’s one of the toughest foot races, and its 2021 edition is considered the toughest with around a 50% dropout!

In this episode, Hazel Harrison joins us to recount her experience leading to and during the marathon. Ultramarathons are already tough, but with people coming out of lockdowns, it became even more challenging! Hazel shares her success was in being able to ask for help, staying resilient and learning to listen to her body.

If you want to learn more about running your best in an ultramarathon, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover Hazel’s journey to the Marathon de Sables and how she stayed firm in her decision despite the cancellations. 2. Understand how the marathon was even more challenging since it took place during a pandemic. 3. Learn valuable lessons from Hazel’s Marathon de Sables experience!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit training into your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Marathon des Sables * Have a listen to previous episodes mentioned: * + Episode 229: Cancer Treatments: Starve Cancer, Be Free From It with Jane McLelland * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Lore of Running by Timothy Noakes * Connect with Hazel: Website | Facebook | LinkedIn | Email

Episode Highlights [01:59] Hazel’s Experience with the Marathon des Sables * Hazel is a businesswoman running a dog daycare, business coaching, and run coaching. She is also a former army nurse. * Hazel shares that she first dreamed of joining the Marathon de Sables back in 1986. It was only in 2018 that she committed to join the 2020 marathon. * Six months before the marathon, she found out that she had stage 3 melanoma. * Four weeks before the marathon, it was cancelled and moved to September due to the pandemic. * Hazel shares that she was losing motivation and was even over-trained from all the cancellations.

[09:39] How to Help Your Body Perform at its Best * Hazel shares that Lisa’s epigenetics program helped her mentally and physically by pinpointing the best time for her to exercise. * Her routine was based on her time with the army. The program helped her adjust based on her body’s needs. * She also took NMN and PerfectAmino to help heal her hamstring.

[12:38] Hazel’s Journey to the Marathon * Travelling during the pandemic was a whole different story. The marathon required full vaccination and a negative COVID-19 test for participants to join. * There were only 672 participants since people were still hesitant to travel during the pandemic. * The heat in the Sahara desert was oppressive and slowed down Hazel’s body. * She even nearly ran out of water before the first checkpoint, and she was drinking faster than she should have. * There is also the danger of hyponatremia in marathons.

[22:53] Day 2 and Day 3 * Day 2 and 3 were at 55.6 degrees, and people were dropping out due to hyperthermia. * A runner also passed away on the second day. * By the third day, Hazel was not feeling well and had gastro pains. * She was reminded to not be afraid to reach out for help and asked to stay with 2 teammates for the long day.

[34:04] How Hazel Performed Beyond 50k * Hazel was able to get a second wind once she went past 50k. * Around 50% dropped out, leaving only 351 people who finished the marathon. * The Marathon des Sables was challenging due to the heat. People had to keep on adjusting their plans. * The lockdowns also compromised the immune systems of many individuals.

[40:26] Learning from Experience * Fear can impact people’s stress levels, immune systems, and coping abilities. * A 50% dropout is not typical in ultramarathons. For the Marathon de Sables, it was normally at 5%. * Ultramarathons teach you to be self-sufficient and reliant.

[44:15] Hazel’s Transition After the Marathon * The marathon forced people to live simple lives and appreciate the things we usually take for granted. * Hazel shares that she ordered a spin bike upon returning. This exercise also helped her process the experience. * She is also currently writing a book about the marathon.

[52:47] Stay Focused * Running ultramarathons is a lot like dealing with diseases like cancer. You need to stay focused and resilient. * After the third cancellation, Hazel needed to reset and rediscover the joy of running. * Training is not about being able to run 90k per week, Every run should have a purpose.

About Hazel Hazel Harrison is an ultrarunner who recently participated in Marathon de Sables. She is also a certified breath coach and a certified professional transformational coach with over 30 years of experience. Hazel specialises in directional coaching, business coaching and mentoring teenager coaching, team coaching, bespoke leadership and team workshops.. She is also the owner of Nose2tail Doggy Daycare in New Zealand.

Want to learn more about Hazel’s work? Check out her website.

You can also connect with her through Facebook, LinkedIn, or email.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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We have all done it.. set out all excited on a new training regime or nutrition plan then become derailed by something, lost our way, fell off the proverbial bandwagon.

In this episode Ultra Endurance Athlete Lisa and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff give their greatest tips for staying motivated, changing the stories running in your head, getting past limiting beliefs and changing your moods and emotions so you can stay focussed and reach those long held dreams

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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At least at one point in our lives, we will all experience body pains and headaches. However, did you know that these may be signs of a vitamin deficiency? Around 60-70% of Americans are calcium and magnesium deficient. We may be vitamin deficient and not even notice it! That's why it's vital to be tracking biometric markers.

Tracking biometric markers and our nutrient levels can be a challenge because of the need to go to clinics regularly for blood tests. Fortunately, there’s a new technology that can help you check your biometric markers in the safety and comfort of your own home.

In this episode, Miray Tayfun discusses how Vivoo can track biometric markers at home. Vivoo can monitor your hydration, liver and kidney functions, Vitamin C, magnesium, and more.

Don’t wait until symptoms start. Stay on top of your health with constant awareness!

If you want to learn more about tracking biometric markers, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how home diagnostic tools like Vivo can help you stay on top of your health. 2. Discover how tracking biometric markers can optimise your health 3. Know more about the other necessary actions you need to take to be healthier.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:02] How Miray Started Vivoo * Miray is knowledgeable in bioengineering and epigenetics. Her expertise is on the Internet of Things and biosensors. * Vivoo means being alive in Spanish. * It is a home diagnostics tool that helps in tracking biometric markers through urine. * The application can measure hydration, liver and kidney functions, urinary tract infections, and ketones.

[06:43] Why Health Tracking is Important * When you are aware of your health statistics, it’s easier to take action. * If you’re tracking biometric markers regularly, you’ll learn about their patterns and changes. * Miray shares that Vivoo is also adding new metrics like calcium, vitamin C, magnesium, salt consumption, and free radicals.

[10:43] Looking Out for Oxidative Stress * Oxidative stress is involved in cell damage and diseases like cancer. * Free radicals can lead to oxidative stress. They can be found in food, objects, and even cosmetics. * Oxidative stress is a byproduct of lipid peroxidation and malondialdehyde (MDA).

[14:21] Who Can Use Vivoo? * Many athletes use Vivoo to track their status before and after runs. * Vivoo can help people become more proactive in their health and understand their bodies’ needs better. * On average, 70% of Americans are calcium deficient and 60% are magnesium deficient.

[19:33] How Does Vivoo Measure Oxidative Stress? * When Vivoo uses colourimetric tests, speific molecules activate and change colours depending on the level of the biometric being measured. * People's health issues can be addressed by simply taking the right supplements and vitamins. * For example, magnesium can help in 600 enzymatic reactions and be a treatment for depression.

[24:17] How Medicine and the Medical Industry Should Change * Medicine often cures only the symptoms, not the disease. * While medicines and treatments can address your symptoms, they won't treat vitamin deficiencies that might cause more significant problems for your body in the future. * Medical trends point to more home diagnostic tools to help people live longer and healthier. * Diabetes and obesity threatens the life expectancy of younger generations.

[31:19] The Mindset to Become Stronger * Looking for investors is just similar to looking for customers. You contact leads, pitch your sales, and hope to get funding. * It also requires mental toughness and optimism despite uncertainties. * When you believe in negative thinking, it then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[40:43] How Vivoo Can Help You Make Lifestyle Changes * Take note that Vivoo only helps gauge biometric levels and you can make decisions based on them. * Many in the biohacking community want nutrient information. Miray's team added metrics for calcium, Vitamin C, magnesium, and salts. * Vivoo also explains the importance of tracking biometric markers. * We need supplementation because our food may not be in its prime condition. For example, Vitamin C in vegetables can oxidate to 90%. * Getting good food nowadays has become difficult due to processing, packaging, pesticides, and modifications.

[54:39] Vivoo and Tracking Biometric Markers * Miray shares that Vivoo does not check one’s overall health. When tracking liver functions, it only measures bilirubin which can check liver damage and cirrhosis. * The application also checks for proteins related to kidney function. * Remember that even if you look healthy on the outside, it doesn’t mean you’re healthy.

7 Powerful Quotes “... I want to know this for my own health, and my family's health so I can track everybody's going.”

“And people like us — sometimes I see hesitancy and people like, why would I pee on a stick unhealthy? But like 70% of Americans are calcium deficient and absorption reduces 30% by age.”

“ …if I had done an ultrasound, even of his stomach — if we would have seen what was going on under the hood, we would have been able to stop the aneurysm happening in his aorta, and we would have been able to fix them. That's just so sad that I didn't have something that could have scanned him and seen that, and fixed that before it became a deadly problem.”

“...we can have genetic disorders, environmentally-caused problems, etc. But our body has actually tools to overcome it most of the times, but they don't allow our bodies to basically find those tools and help itself. They just try to cure the symptom.”

“...this is exciting, because then we will have much more control. And we will be able to live longer and age better and have a healthier [life].”

"And I realised that my biggest weakness is when there's uncertainty, there's two ways. You can be either optimistic, believe in yourself and your dreams, and keep going, or you can go down and save."

“It's okay for you to cost a little bit, in my opinion. It's okay for you to want to live your life and to have a good retirement and some nice times before you depart this world. And it's worth fighting for.”

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Order your very own Vivoo strips now and use code Lisa25 to get a 25% off your purchase! * Lifespan by David A. Sinclair * Learn more about NMN through our interviews with Dr Elena Seranova: * + Episode 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity + Episode 189: Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity * Vivoo: Website I Instagram I Twitter * Connect with Miray: Linkedin I Twitter

About Miray Miray Tayfun is the co-founder and CEO of Vivoo, the first affordable at-home wellness tracker that utilises urine to help people in tracking biometric markers and stay on top of their health. The application can detect metric levels such as hydration, pH, ketones, kidney and liver functions, among others.

Miray graduated from the Yildiz Technical University with a Bachelor of Applied Science, Bioengineering, and finished the Epigenetics and Nutrigenetics course at Stanford University.

Interested to learn more about Miray’s work? Check out her website.

You can also connect with her on Linkedin and Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to begin tracking biometric markers and be as healthy as they can be.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

How to develop mental toughness for sport business and life

Developing mental toughness is an underrated skill in, not only sport performance, but in business and for overcoming life's many challenges and obstacles. With the right mindset and approach you can achieve more than you ever thought possible.

Professional adventure athlete Lisa Tamati who has over 25 years experience racing in the worlds toughest endurance races, takes you through her top tips on developing the right mindset and mental toughness in sport and high performance.

Such things as:
how you perceive the upcoming challenge
how to tap into your parasympathetic nervous system to control your physiology
how to deal with failure
how to deal with fear.
Includes advice for coaching athletes and putting positive frameworks around each experience -good or bad and how to build on success.
For more inspirational and educational training and mindset videos or for specialised personalised coaching plans for achieving your sporting goals please visit us at www.lisatamati.co.nz and Lisas' coaching page, www.runninghotcoaching.com
Please also subscribe to our channel and visit us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati/

If you would like to download our free 5 day run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Getting a disease is inevitable; no one is exempt from it. Some people are fortunate enough to be cured of their illnesses. However, some diseases and conditions do not have cures, such as cancer.

In a pandemic-stricken world, a deeper understanding of our immune system is crucial now more than ever. The body's immune system is the body's primary defence against sickness and disease. By learning the inner workings of our body, we can help support and prepare ourselves to fight cancer and keep ourselves healthy.

In this episode, Dr Elizabeth Yurth shares her knowledge on the effects of cancer and viruses on our immune system. She talks about alternative approaches based on scientific evidence that goes hand in hand with traditional cancer treatments, ranging from spermidine to vitamin D and zinc. Become pre-emptive and preventive when it comes to your health! Get ahead of diseases through early diagnosis.

If you want to learn more about how you can help your immune system fight cancer and other diseases, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how your immune system works against viruses and cancer cells. 2. Learn more alternative approaches to cancer treatment aside from chemotherapy and radiation. 3. Discover how early testing and screening can help improve your overall health.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights 01:04 Lisa’s Journey with Cancer and her Mom Lisa’s mother has been diagnosed with high-grade diffuse B-cell lymphoma. These recent events have motivated Lisa to delve deeper into cancer research. Understanding how cancer works and the approaches besides traditional procedures such as chemotherapy and radiation are necessary and relevant. In the following episodes, she will be doing a series of interviews revolving around the theme of cancer.

09:12 How Cancer Rewrites the Definition of Healthy When diagnosed with cancer, building muscles and promoting metabolic activity becomes less of a priority. The goal of cancer treatment is to slow everything down. We want to get rid of damaged cells and generate new ones. Dr Yurth adds that while it is vital to maintain glucose levels and everything, the general goal is to block muscle growth. Cancer begins at a mitochondrial level, and cancer cells need tons of energy to support their growth rate. We need to block all the typical pathways that make us healthy to stop its growth.

12:58 Spermidine and Autophagy Pathways The effects of spermidine are different for different types of cancer, but it appears to be very beneficial to patients suffering from colon cancer. Blocking the polyamine pathways in prostate cancer has been good in getting rid of cancer cells. A high dose of spermidine will result in a dramatic autophagy effect. However, Dr Yurth advises that she wouldn't recommend this until research reveals more information.

Another good approach is doxycycline. Mitochondria started as bacteria and have their own DNA. Since doxycycline is an antibacterial agent, it works well in getting rid of these mitochondria. Dr Yurth advises us to stick to approaches that have better answers.

17:19 Autophagy as Recycling Cancer cells can use recycled proteins as another fuel source, so it's vital to block these pathways. Dipyridamole is a drug that works well in blocking nucleotide salvage pathways. However, chemotherapeutic drugs work on only one pathway, and cancer cells tend to find other pathways to get their energy, which makes working against these cells challenging.

19:00 Fight Cancer By Starving It Dr Yurth remarks that McClellan's work that includes safe, inexpensive, and readily available drugs in combating cancer is an innovative approach. She recommends doing them hand in hand with conventional approaches to cancer. Most oncologists will discourage patients from taking unconventional practices with cancer treatments.

21:25 Taking Others’ Input, Making Own Decisions We need new scientific research about making decisions about cancer treatment. For example, there may be detrimental effects to patients undergoing unconventional approaches. Dr Yurth adds that she does extensive research in everything she does.

23:00 Drug Interactions Understanding drug interactions is vital in understanding cancer treatments. However, oncologists only look at it at the metabolic cellular level and follow their study protocols.

23:34 Understanding the Metabolism of Cancer Cancer is not just a genetic disease. While genetics causes a disposition towards cancer, the disease itself starts in the mitochondria. The mitochondria are independent and can become cancerous. There is no homogenous pattern when it comes to cancer cells mutating. That is why we need to treat the mitochondria and target metabolism.

26:20 Progress in Understanding Cancer There has been headway in understanding cancer, but you'll realise that research in the field has gotten further if we put everything together. The immune system responds appropriately to keep the cancer cells in check. However, as we age, the immune system becomes dysfunctional and can no longer get rid of cancer cells. Cancer is an age-related disease because the immune system starts to deteriorate. Viruses like cytomegalovirus, Epstein Barr virus (EBV), and COVID end up sticking around and dysregulating the immune system. Over time, these viruses can eventually link to a form of cancer.

28:40 Viruses and their Relationship to the Immune System Over time, the immune system becomes depleted in keeping check with viruses in the body. The ratio of neutrophils and lymphocytes is vital for keeping your immune system working well. Having disproportionate lymphocytes means that your immune system can't protect your body from viruses. Dr Yurth shares that her son's white blood cell count dropped after experiencing EBV and COVID at the same time. Many people don't appreciate how viruses play a role in the long haul in our immune system. Dr Yurth suggests looking more aggressively at latent viruses in the body. Getting a simple CBC can determine how your immune system is currently faring.

33:53 What Peptides Are Peptides are, in a sense, small proteins. A protein has more than 50 amino acids, and peptides have less than 50 amino acids. Our body makes thousands of peptides, each made with a specific function. Synthetic peptides are also present in the body. The thymus gland, responsible for producing peptides, becomes smaller as we age. For patients with autoimmune diseases, giving back peptide thymosin alpha 1 in doses helps their immune system fight viruses. Some countries use a drug called Daxon for this purpose or as an adjunct to vaccines. Immune system support is critical for cancer patients going through chemotherapy. However, this remains an expensive and inaccessible approach.

39:12 Emerging Home Diagnostic Tests in the Market It is vital to get ahead and find early signs of diseases through testing. Dr Yurth shares an anecdote of her patient with dementia. There is a correlation between the brain scan and the immune system test results, which pointed towards a viral influence. Your lymphocyte count can be the marker in determining the status of your immune system.

40:52 Being Pre-emptive and Preventive Your GP typically has you undergo a CBC test, but the results of this test tend to go overlooked. The risk of dying becomes dramatically higher when your blood count is above 1.5 to 1. Albumin dropping is a sign that the body is in a stressed state. This marker predicts if your body will respond well to cancer. Cell size and red blood cell distribution can also help healthcare providers determine the health status of your cells.

43:13 Background on Dr Yurth’s BLI Academy Course The course will be available in January and includes a blood test. Dr Yurth and her team will walk you through your test results and the possible diseases you need to consider. It's essential to look for markers that tell you if something's wrong with your body. There are long term ramifications to latent viruses such as EPV, which could lead to lymphoma.

46:25 COVID and How You Can Support the Immune System Vitamin D is essential to support your immune system fight viruses, and by extension, fight cancer and the coronavirus. Dr Yurth recommends 1000 IU/day of Vitamin D and taking it with Vitamin K2 intracellularly. People lacking a binding protein may experience issues taking Vitamin D naturally through sunlight exposure. Fortunately, there are substitutes, including certain wavelength lamps and supplements. Sunlight exposure and vitamin D influences the frequency of colds and flu in winter. The vitamin D levels from the sun decrease during this season.

50:07 The Importance of Vitamin D Vitamin D upregulates an antimicrobial peptide, LL 37, which fights infections. Instead of buying expensive LL 37, you can take more vitamin D and upregulate your own LL 37. It is a great antiviral agent as well. Some people fear getting too much vitamin D. However, studies have shown that you need to be taking massive amounts before it becomes toxic. Dr Yurth recollects the case of a patient taking around 500,000 IU/day. When she stopped taking massive amounts, her levels went back to normal.

52:17 The Problem with Taking Vitamin D Naturally Wearing sunblock can protect us from skin cancer and wrinkles but can also affect vitamin D absorption. African Americans and people of Mediterranean origin have skin less likely to be damaged by sun rays but tend to have lower vitamin D levels. In contrast, people who have Norwegian and similar European origins have higher vitamin D levels because their bodies aren't under the sun all the time. Through testing, you can determine if you need more vitamin D in your body.

53:54 The Importance of Zinc Viruses use your zinc to replicate. Zinc deficiency is present in people who contracted COVID, causing loss of taste and smell. A smell test is employed to determine whether a person has zinc deficiency. Higher levels of zinc can help protect our bodies against viral infections. Dr Yurth recommends a 1:1 zinc and copper ratio. You can add 2 milligrams of copper along with your zinc intake or use copper peptide face creams to achieve this recommendation. Some patients can take GHK Copper peptide intravenously or topically.

56:52 Quercetin and Resveratrol Quercetin helps get zinc into the cell. Resveratrol and Quercetin also help in treating viruses. These drugs also block glucose transport which makes them beneficial in treating cancer.

57:52 Honokiol or Magnolia Bark Extract and Zeolite Also known as Relora, it is an immune-modulating agent with antiviral properties. The drug has an adrenal function; it relieves stress and calms down cortisol present in the body at night. Zeolite is volcanic ash that forms a negatively charged structure upon hitting the water. Dentists commonly use it for mercury detox. Its cage-like structure can trap harmful toxins and viruses that get into our bodies. It also has anti-cancer properties. Ingesting zeolite while undergoing chemotherapy is not recommended because it can get rid of the toxins present in the treatment.

1:02:04 Mental Work in the Cancer Journey As a caretaker, stress shows prominent signs in physical and mental health. Dr Yurth shares that when her mother died in September, her father's prostate cancer was exacerbated by stress, which eventually led to his death. Similarly, Lisa's family experienced the loss of her father, followed by her mother's cancer diagnosis. Don't neglect the mental side of cancer.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Visit Lorraine Picard’s website for copper peptide creams here. * Interested in BLI Academy Courses? Check out their offered services here. * Learn more from Dr Elizabeth Yurth from her previous podcast episodes: * + Episode 187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health with Dr Elizabeth Yurth * You can also check out Dr Elizabth Yurth’s podcast with the Boulder Longevity Institute here! * Connect with Dr Elizabeth Yurth: Instagram l LinkedIn

7 Powerful Quotes “What happens in cancer though, is we have this accumulation of damage. And so now we have to go really aggressively at getting rid of everything that’s allowing cell growth.”

“Neutrophils, think of them as your chronic inflammatory and lymphocytes are your innate immune system. When your innate immune system starts to become taxed and not functioning well, then you’ll start to see your lymphocyte count drop,”

“I’m never an advocate of saying, Don’t do all traditional approaches, because I do think there’s some value to them, but we want to support the body along with it.”

“And yet, we know that for every point above 1.5, to 1 that your risk of dying goes up considerably. You know, it’s dramatic. And there are other little signs too, that things are going awry.”

“(A higher risk) happens as we get older because our immune system is now taxed for so long. So if we could say okay, yes, you had this virus, let’s try and eradicate it. Let’s keep your immune system as healthy as it can, you know, until 150.”

“The data really supports that if your vitamin D is robust, your likelihood of getting sick is really small.”

“The studies have shown that it has to be taking massive amounts of (vitamin D) to ever become toxic. So at 10,000 IU/day, nobody is going to become toxic. You really honestly don’t have to worry.”

About Dr Yurth Dr Elizabeth Yurth is the co-founder and medical director of the Boulder Longevity Institute.

Dr Elizabeth Yurth has more than 25 years of experience as a practising orthopedist specialising in sports, spine, and regenerative medicine.

She has a Stanford affiliated Fellowship in Sports and Spine Medicine and a dual-Fellowship in Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine (FAARM) and Anti-Aging, Regenerative and Functional Medicine (FAARFM) through the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M).

She also has a Fellowship in Human Potential and Epigenetic Medicine and is one of the first providers to receive the A4M National Peptide Certification. She also serves as a faculty member in the same organisation and the International peptide Society (IPS).

You can connect with Dr Yurth through her Instagram and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise their immune system and fight disease more efficiently.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

So much about the world remains unknown. What lies in the ocean’s depths, the composition of outer space, life after COVID — these are all questions yet to be answered. However, we can discover different solutions for many unresolved problems using critical thinking. We need to stop looking for answers today and look forward; we need to seek the art of the possible.

In this episode, Dr Joe Dituri draws from his research and experience to discuss hyperbaric oxygen therapy, space travel, and the right approach to battling COVID. One might think that it takes an advanced academic degree to tackle these concerns and mysteries. However, in the episode, we’ll learn that qualifications aren’t all there is to it. Finally, he shares how research and studying can unlock doors to a whole world of possibilities.

Tune in if you want to learn more about harnessing the art of the possible.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand more about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and oxygen toxicity. 2. Hear Dr Joe’s opinion on how we can solve the current COVID situation — and why the research and doctoral approach just won’t cut it. 3. Learn about the importance of diversity of thought and the art of the possible.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com. We can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book, Relentless, chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility.

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:03] Dr Joe’s Background * Dr Joe did so poorly in his studies that he had no choice but to join the Navy. * He has poor vision due to congenital ocular albinism. However, refusing to wear glasses impeded his learning potential. * While his mother taught him his work ethic, the Navy taught him discipline. * After finding out his learning method, he earned his bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and became a Navy Special Operations Officer.

[11:22] Becoming a Navy Commander * Dr Joe trained to walk on the ocean floor more than swim * during his time as a Navy diver. * He became a great diver and started writing papers after expanding his diving knowledge. * His papers and diving expertise resulted in him receiving a promotion as the officer-in-charge of the Deep Submergence Unit. * Upon building a dry combat submersible and bending a few rules, they came up with organisation state rules for the American Bureau of Shipping.

[18:25] Life After the Navy * After finishing 28 years in the Navy, Dr Joe decided to write a paper on the ketogenic diet. * There was a hypothesis that using a ketogenic diet could stave off epileptic seizures on one side. Joe wondered if it would work for hyperbaric oxygen therapy. * Then, he decided to pursue a PhD in Biomedical Engineering to write the paper. * After writing the paper, Dr Dom D’Agostino invited Joe to work in his laboratory and write a few chapters on a book together.

[23:19] Combating Oxygen Toxicity * When you’re diving, seizure won’t kill you; drowning will. * Joe’s PhD was about designing an early warning detection system for when the autonomic nervous system is stressed. * They also redesigned the current spacesuit.

[30:36] What Extreme Diving Is Like * If there’s a leak in your suit at 810 PSI, it would cut you in half and fuse you. * With extreme diving, he needed to be calm about his potential death. The fear encouraged more careful measures. * Being in charge of the detachment meant Joe carried a significant responsibility on his shoulders. * Coming to terms with that responsibility, he devised a robust training plan and surrounded himself with people to help him execute it.

[34:58] His Diving Experience * They did a scientific expedition on the Britannic to learn why it sank. * The black coral dive was the most dangerous dive he's performed. The swinging of the hammer in the water takes so much energy, and it attracts sharks. * Your body has compensatory mechanisms that allow you to dive as deep as 2,000 feet underwater. * They're looking to break the record by living in an aquatic environment for 100 days. This endeavour also serves as survival training in extreme conditions. * Everything we need to survive is on this planet — we just need to look in new places.

[48:05] The Art of the Possible * We’re all just trying to figure out what we’re supposed to do. * It's not about what is state of the art. Instead, consider the art of the possible. Always keep your eyes ahead.

[54:53] The COVID Situation * Viruses will kill people. * We need a common-sense approach rooted in a combination of politics, medicine, and business rather than just a blanket doctoral approach. * Shaming and blaming are fear tactics used during the vaccination period. * Rather than pointing fingers, it’s more important to find a solution to the problem.

[1:00:32] What He’s Currently Doing * He's working at the Undersea Oxygen Clinic, where they're doing clinical research and a wide variety of treatments. * Medicare doesn’t hold all the answers; we could refer to the HMO since they have good interests at heart. * Tune in to the full episode to find out his studies on post-COVID patients and why sometimes the research itself is the wrong attitude!

[1:12:52] Degree vs. Diversity of Thought * You can’t expect everything to work right away. * Degrees and titles mean nothing compared to the ability to think outside the box. The art of the possible requires looking ahead. * In the U.S., some legislations grant patients with a terminal diagnosis the right to dictate their own cure.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘There’s enough problems that can kill you, and the ocean will happily and gleefully kill you without blinking an eye. It won’t even recognise that you’re there, so… you actually have to give it a good dose of respect.’

‘... everything that we need on this planet exists on this planet to survive.’

'It's not about the state of the art; it's about the art of the possible. Because the state of the art is yesterday and right now. The art of the possible is way the hell out there.'

'I firmly believe that [the solution to COVID] needs to be rooted not in politics. Not in medicine, but in a combination of politics and medicine and business and acumen.'

‘People will do everything, and then do hyperbarics. Then they go, ‘Hyperbarics didn’t work.’ Well, yeah, because you waited until the end to try it. If you had done it, it might have helped earlier.’

‘...what degree you have, what title you put before your name, what title you put after your name, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. If you are a person that can think outside the box, I’d much rather have you in my corner.’

'If you are supposedly at the end of life and have been given a terminal diagnosis and I'm going to die if I do things the way you want to do, then why do you care?'

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Learn more about the Undersea Oxygen Clinic. * Connect with Dr Joe: Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

About Dr Joe Dr Joe Dituri is a retired Navy Commander and a consultant for the International Board of Undersea Medicine. He’s currently the President of the Undersea Oxygen Clinic and the CEO of the Association for Marine Exploration.

He earned his bachelor's degree in Computer Science from the University of South Carolina, a Master's degree in Astronautical Engineering from Naval Post Graduate School, and a PhD in Biomedical Engineering at the University of South Florida. Enlisting in the U.S. Navy in 1985, he was commissioned in Special Operations and became Officer-in-Charge Deep Submergence Unit (DSU) Diving Systems Detachment (DSD). He also won several awards during his service.

Joe has written numerous diver-training manuals, co-authored “Tao of Survival Underwater”, contributed to Hyperbaric Medical Practice (4th edition) and the Navy Diving Manual, and has been published in several journals. Currently, he is interested in writing books, skydiving, and being a civilian astronaut.

Learn more about Dr Joe's work, including hyperbaric oxygen therapy, on his website.

You can also connect with him on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can discover the meaning of the art of the possible.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

View Details

Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance.

He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions.

Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide.

I wanted to share this second episode with Dr Sherr (he was on back in episode 77) to go even deeper into the little known facts about hyperbaric oxygen therapy like making epigenetic shifts, angiogenesis, stem cell production, lymph drainage and how it influences around 8000 genes in the body. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy was a major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over 4 years ago.

Isobel was left with hardly any higher functioning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74.

But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use. What followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplementation and diet changes and over 250 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story.

This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much clearer and better than I ever could, just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine. My book "Relentless" which is out now on my website and everywhere good books are sold shares our journey with hyperbaric among other adjunctive therapies. If you or anyone you know would be interested in purchasing a hyperbaric chamber, contact lisa@lisatamati.com for more details. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Well hi everyone. Fantastic to have you back again on pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic interview with Dr. Scott Scheer, who is a physician out of the United States. Now Scott, Dr. Scott has been on my podcast previously and it was one of the most popular episodes, so I'm really, really privileged to have him back on. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a pioneer in health optimization medicine and in this episode we really going and doing a deep dive into one of my favorite therapies, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, but we're also going to be talking about meta below mix in the hollow biome. Yeah, Dr. Scott is a position certified in the health optimization medicine and in hyperbaric same time and he uses both of these protocols and adjunctive technologies. Uh, he's a father of four and he's an incredible, uh, really outside of the box thinker and I love his approach to his work.

Speaker 2: (01:04)
So I'm hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Scott shoe. Just a reminder, my book [inaudible] is now out. And, uh, my story with my mom was all, uh, one of the cornerstone therapies was hyperbaric oxygen therapy and I was, it was wonderful to connect with Dr. Scott about that previously and to learn all about hyperbaric. So I hope you enjoy this interview and if you want to grab the book while you're at it, he don't have it to my website, lisatamati.com and there was a lengthier under the shop for the books, so check them all out. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again soon. And now over to Dr. Scott. Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you on board again today for an exciting episode. I have Dr. Scott Scheer with me who is a hyperbaric specialist, uh, from the States and he is, uh, had been on my show before and he is now coming back on here. It was one of the most popular episodes on the whole show. So I'm really, really excited to have Dr. Scott Beck and he's actually sitting in his own hyperbaric chamber right now and doing the interview from inside his own hyperbaric. So Dr. Scott, how are you doing?

Speaker 3: (02:16)
I'm doing well. Can you hear me okay, Lisa?

Speaker 2: (02:18)
Yeah, it's not too bad. We might have to ramp up the volume when we're doing the either thing, but we'll give it a go. See, here we go. Okay,

Speaker 3: (02:26)
sounds good.

Speaker 2: (02:27)
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: (02:31)
Yes, I'm in my own chamber. I, um, I have my own mild hyperbaric units. Mild hyperbaric therapy is defined as hyperbaric therapy, less than or 1.3 atmospheres or more superficial than that. Um, and so these chambers go to about 15 feet of seawater equivalent. Um, and these chambers are approved for home use. Um, and I use them for a lot of different reasons, but personally I use it for just overall health and wellness, cognitive capacity enhancements, muscle recovery, jet lag, and a couple of other other indications. The chamber is nice because it's a triangular type of chamber, which means that you can actually sit up in it and not have to lie down completely. And I've been using it a lot these days, given pandemics and all those kinds of things and doing my best to stay healthy along with everybody else. At least a lot of other people that are not eating junk food all the time.

Speaker 2: (03:32)
Yeah. And we'll get into that a little bit later that year. Um, no amount of boy hacking all out to a good dog bed diet. So we definitely need to focus on that. But, so Dr. Scott, so I have my own hyperbaric chamber. I go in and every pretty much, you know, three or four times a week at least my one goes up to 1.5 atmospheres. And, but you also have a clinic that goes, uh, has, um, hyperbaric chambers that go, uh, too high up precious. Can you explain a little bit difference between the mild hyperbaric and the medical grade, if you like hyperbaric sort of things?

Speaker 3: (04:09)
Yeah, sure. So hyperbaric therapy in the United States is approved for 14 different conditions and all of those conditions have been studied at two atmospheres or greater. And so all the medical conditions for hyperbaric therapy cannot be treated in mild hyperbaric units. They can only be treated in, in units that are more medical grade. The medical grade chambers go down. Uh, there's different types of medical grade chambers. The most common, it's called a motto place or a single unit occupancy chamber. That chamber goes down to somewhere between 2.4 to three atmospheres of pressure. Three atmospheres of pressure is the equivalent of 66 feet of seawater. What's interesting about 66 feet of sea water equivalent is that when they, that's actually where they've done studies showing that at that level you no longer need red blood cells in circulation to get enough oxygen diffused into the plasma where the liquid of your blood at that level and maintain your physiologic functions.

Speaker 3: (05:10)
So it's a, it's a significant amount of oxygen that we can get into circulation. And so, um, what we're doing in a chamber is obviously driving more oxygen into circulation. And that's kind of like the quick and dirty of what's happening. When you go in there. The heart chambers are typically going down to deeper pressures, um, two atmospheres or above. Mmm. And then the soft chambers, um, depending on the type of chamber you have, it could go down to 1.3. Some of them go to 1.5. It depends on the country and the location. Well, I think what's more important for people is not that type of chamber really. But because some soft chambers can actually go to very deep pressures and heart chamber go to any pressure, they can go to superficial chamber pressures and they can go to deep pressure. What's most important, I think is knowing is treated or what the difference in treatments is depending on the pressure.

Speaker 3: (06:03)
Mmm. We think of neurologic pressure. So brain and spinal cord related pressures being somewhere between 1.3 and 2.0 and we think of things outside the central nervous system, soft tissue, um, and sort of overall hello. Outside of the central nervous system. A 2.0 and greater in general. No. From a like detoxification, lymphatic perspective, you can get benefits at both at 1.3 to 2.0 along with a 2.0 or greater. And from a STEM cell release perspective, the further down you go, the deeper you go, the more STEM cells that are released. So the indications fall into those two basic categories of neurologic versus non neurologic conditions. Although you can modulate the salt chambers to help you with some non neurologic conditions as well. You are getting more oxygen in circulation, right? So you are getting the ability to enhance your flow of oxygen to tissues regardless of the chamber and regardless of the pressure actually, although some pressure is needed. Mmm. And then you are helping with detoxification as well, no matter what pressures you're using,

Speaker 2: (07:19)
but it's more optimal at the, at the higher pressures. So,

Speaker 3: (07:23)
okay.

Speaker 2: (07:24)
So for neuro separate brain injury, like um, you know, not my story with my mum, um, 1.5 was what, you know, we were recommended is an ideal, uh, pressure for, for brain injury. So, so you're saying the neurological, the problems that people have actually better at the lower or the a then this oppression. So I should say, and for things like, um, Mmm diabetic wounds or um, healing injuries, uh, boons, that type of thing at a higher pressure would be more beneficial, but, or hyperbaric will help with detoxification. And was the limps and speeding up the healing hearing properties, the STEM cell release, is that higher when it's deeper, uh, pressure or high pressure?

Speaker 3: (08:11)
Yes. Yeah. The deeper you go, the more STEM cells are released because it's related to how much oxygen is being infused. The more oxygen infused, the more STEM cells get released. It's a, it's kind of a, it's kind of, it's a direct relationship.

Speaker 2: (08:27)
So do you know the, um, so I remember from the last podcast you're saying, you know, up to 12 times the amount of oxygen can be taken up into the body. Um, it is sad. So it says three atmospheres, there'll be 12 times in it at one and a half atmospheres. That would be, I don't know, somewhere in that for some six, seven times the amount of Mmm. Uh, oxygen that's diffusing. Now, the difference with a hyperbaric is actually, you know, like people will say, well, you know, I put an SPO two of my little thing on my finger and it says I'm 98%. I'm saturated with oxygen, right? How do I get more oxygen in? So what is the different mechanism between normal barracks, uh, pressure and hyperbaric pressure?

Speaker 3: (09:16)
Yeah, it's a question I get a lot, Lisa, and I'm sure you get it a lot too. So a pulse oximeter, it's something you put it on your finger and that measures the arterial oxygen saturation of your red blood cells. So you, red blood cells are what typically carry oxygen from your lungs. When you take a deep breath [inaudible] after going out of your lungs, as they go through the rest of your body and they to release oxygen so that you can make energy without oxygen, you cannot make ATP, which is the energy, energy currency of, of our body. And so you're right, our red blood cell carrying capacity for oxygen at sea level, he's actually quite good. That's when you put a pulsox machine on your finger. You get 97 to a hundred percent if you have normal lungs. So hyperbaric therapy is going to saturate any more sites on the red blood cells where they can carry oxygen.

Speaker 3: (10:08)
If there is like 97% sites, I already occupied those extra 3% will be occupied. But what's actually happening and the power of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in its ability to change this gaseous form of oxygen into a liquid form that actually diffuses directly into the plasma or the liquid of our blood and the liquid of our blood has very little oxygen in it at sea level. And we can diffuse up to 12 times or actually even more than that, a deeper pressures than three ATA, oxygen in circulation. And it's that extra oxygen you cannot get without having also been under pressure at the same time as getting more oxygen as well.

Speaker 2: (10:49)
So then this is really powerful when it comes to say injuries where uh, there's been a blockage to the blood supply to a certain area so that whether that's from a heart attack or a stroke or you know, Mmm. Or even as I presume with crush injuries and certain things like this we are not able to get, Lisa was a blocked in some way that you can actually perfuse the area around the injury with oxygen despite it not going through the blood vessels. Is that, is there a correct way of explaining it or

Speaker 3: (11:25)
know? The way I like to think about it is that you have all this oxygen that's now in circulation and it's kind of like oxygen, just like osmosis. We'll go to the area where there's less of it, so the more oxygen you have in a blood vessel, the more of that oxygen is going to get into the tissue around the blood vessel so you don't have to have as much vascular density potentially to get oxygen to that tissue because we've found a few, so much oxygen inside of that tissue bed itself that it could potentially factor as a way of saving tissue in the acute setting. So like you said, like the acute ischemia is the acute hypoxia is or low oxygen safe that happened with a heart attack. Well you have a lack of a blood flow in a coronary artery or a stroke.

Speaker 3: (12:09)
We have lack of blood flow, an artery in the brain or a spinal cord injury. When you have arteries that are actually broken you can actually get more oxygen to that tissue because you can diffuse more into the tissue bed around the injured blood vessel. It was also good is that when you have an acute injury there's also going to be a lot of swelling and actually injury too. The vessels that are going to cause leakage of that fluid and swelling. And actually in the chamber you actually constrict down blood vessels a little bit and that constriction actually helps you and prevents some of that fluid from releasing. And for some of that swelling to happen, even though you have this constriction of the blood vessel, you've also net had a significant delivery of oxygen to that tissue regardless because we've had all of that oxygen diffuse into the plasma. So Mmm, oxygen carrying capacity in normal settings without pressure is only dependent on how many red blood cells you have. But in a chamber we're pressurizing your body, pressurizing your breath or your whole body really. But when you take a deep breath, that pressurized oxygen is driven into the plasma or your liquid of the blood and that liquid of your, of your blood, it can go much further and diffuse much further into tissues outside of blood vessels as well.

Speaker 2: (13:26)
So for an example was, um, you know, my mom's story with the aneurysm. If I had managed, and of course at this stage I didn't know anything about Harbor about when this first happened, but if I'd been able to get her into a chamber immediately after the event occurred, uh, the cause the inflammation obviously with a broad love and Brian tissue mixing causes inflammation in the skull. Yeah. Um, that would have been hugely beneficial if I've managed to get her in a few times immediately after the event. So after she was stable, yes. Obviously, yeah,

Speaker 3: (14:03)
being stable. So I have some people, I just like to be very clear, you should go to a hospital. Did you have a stroke or you will have a heart attack and don't go to your local hyperbaric provider once you're stabilized. Yes. Um, there are some indications that the sooner that you can get treated in a chamber, the more oxygen you can get to your brain to a certain degree. I mean, not huge amounts. You don't want to go down to three atmospheres because that could be dangerous for your brain, but oxygen to your brain, oxygen to your heart after an acute event is going to save tissue in your brain and save tissue in your heart. [inaudible] they've even done studies looking at people that are getting bypass procedures, coronary bypass procedures. And if they're doing this, they get into a hyperbaric chamber right before, um, they save tissue in their heart so they, they have more harder to function, have better neurologic function after a coronary artery bypass grafting procedure.

Speaker 2: (14:56)
Wow. So, so Dr. Scott, like why is there any place in the world where this is offered in the ICU? You know, in the acute setting where people are coming in with major injuries or strokes or heart attacks or this type of thing where it's actually used as a part of the syrupy and if not, why not? Why is it not everywhere?

Speaker 3: (15:17)
Well to do acute care, hyperbaric therapy, it takes very specialized capability because if you're going to be in there with attendance or you have IVs going and you have others drugs you need to give, it's, it's definitely a specialized service. Um, in Japan, China and Russia, it's used much more in the acute setting than it is in the United States. The U S it has, and it still is used for acute trauma. So if you have like a traumatic ischemia, like we have a traumatic injury to one of your soft tissue areas, for example, it can be used. Um, but in general, um, it's not used as often in the trauma setting in the, in the U S as it is in other countries, especially China, Russia and Japan.

Speaker 2: (16:05)
Right. Okay. And it's not, it's not used here either and it's not even approved. Is it on the, in America, is it an approved treatment for, um, neurological events?

Speaker 3: (16:18)
There's no neurologic indication that's covered right now in the United States. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (16:23)
Even though it is right,

Speaker 3: (16:24)
I'm going to change that. And I mean the one that has the had the most, I think research behind it in the most interest is traumatic brain injury and concussion. There is definitely some good studies from across the world. M a U S showing how hyperbaric therapy can help people recover from concussion and traumatic brain injuries, which is another name for concussion really either in the short term and like from an acute concussion or even from hello term symptoms that may not go away.

Speaker 2: (16:53)
Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking about like there's different things here that are going on. You've got, it's detecting the inflammation is producing more STEM cells. It's a, it's Oh, sorry. Knocking off senescent cells isn't it? Which are your old cells that are not doing much of anything.

Speaker 3: (17:15)
Yeah, they're called the zombie cells. Right. So, um, can we, I like to think about hyperbaric therapy is, is relatively simply, there's four things that we do in the chamber. The first thing we do is we reverse hypoxia. We've been already talking about that. We reverse low oxygen States by getting more oxygen into circulation and over the longterm a protocol of hyperbaric therapy, create new blood vessels in those areas that have been injured. We're going to play games and then maintain the ability to get blood flow to that tissue over the long term. That's the first thing, reversing hypoxia. The second thing is decreasing inflammation. It does that immediately by constructing down the blood vessels like we talked about, but also over the longterm. It has the ability to shift our epigenetics, change how our body, our DNA expresses certain proteins that are responsible for inflammation.

Speaker 3: (18:07)
Things like TNF alpha, I'll one L six I'll eight and others. The third thing it does is releases a massive number of STEM cells. Those STEM cells all released throughout the body and they hone or they go to areas where there is more inflammation or there's more need for STEM cells to go to those areas and regenerate them. The next thing that happens is that there is, especially in higher oxygen environments, we have the ability to kill bugs, kill bacteria, fungus, and potentially even viruses. A deeper pressures in the chamber. So senescence cell populations look like they do get decreased or they do go down. We're not exactly sure how that's happening. We don't know if that's happening because those cells are being regenerated or if those cells are being killed off and either way is good for the body really. Because when they stick around and they're not replicating, and there we have a high association with cancer, with degenerative disease. Yeah. With aging overall. So senescent cells aren't cool in general. So we want those to go away. Uh, we don't know if that's because new STEM cells are coming and just the other ones are dying or if we're now getting more oxygen to the tissue. And so those cells are getting enough oxygen to regenerate their mitochondria and start making energy more effectively, which is where we make energy in ourselves. We're not sure.

Speaker 2: (19:39)
So the senescent cells are basically cells that have had past their use by date really. And they're not doing much of anything except causing trouble in the body, causing inflammation, causing changes, perhaps even, uh, in closing cancers and so on. Um, so it's really good to be getting rid of those. You mentioned the, um, I was six. Yeah. I are six from memory as one of the ones that they talking about in the Cobra, uh, scenario a that that's so interleukin six is, can you explain, um, I mean obviously we don't know whether it's good for coven Mmm. But is this potentially something that if someone has the Corona virus that they can potentially look at doing to stop the cytokine storm that's actually killing the people?

Speaker 3: (20:30)
Well, we're actually looking into it now. I have several colleagues around the United States that are starting with clinical studies to look at how hyperbaric therapy I can work on two fronts. It can work as a way to get more oxygen to the system as we've been describing it, because one of the things that's happening in covert is that they're getting very, very hypoxic. They're getting very low oxygen levels and we think this has something to do with destruction of the red blood cells or the inability of red blood cells to carry oxygen as effectively. So again, we can bypass that by being in a chamber like I am right now and pressurizing around you. And then as a result of that pressurization, I'm getting more oxygen in circulation regardless of how many red blood cells I have working or not, how many hemoglobin molecules I have working or not.

Speaker 3: (21:16)
So that's one area that we're looking at is how hyperbaric therapy can work. The other area that we're looking at is as, as as an anti-inflammatory. So it does have the ability to downregulate those inflammatory cytokines, one of them being IO six. So maybe helping with that cytokine storm at the same time. We also know for other studies over the years that hyperbaric therapy is and immuno modulator, it helps the immune system function better. Um, so we think in the early part of the process, maybe if coven 19 we don't know yet for sure, but it may help to support the immune system and allow it to sort of weather the storm better as opposed to not weathering it as well. So it's a lot of conjecture right now, Lisa, you know, we don't know for sure how it works or if it's going to work, but there are definitely some of my colleagues around the U S and around the world that are looking at how hyperbaric therapy might be a helpful adjunct to conventional care.

Speaker 3: (22:16)
Maybe prevent people from getting intubated or being on ventilators, which would be a great thing. And so they're looking at that as another having you, and they're also looking at pressurizing the hoods, the hoods that you were in a hyperbaric chamber as a way to get more oxygen into the system without being an hyperbaric chamber as well. So yeah, I've posted a little bit about this on my Instagram because I just find these really intriguing. There is actually one company that's looking to retrofit airplanes. Airplanes are usually pressurized at 8,000 feet above sea level, so they're actually hypoxic environments. There's lower oxygen on and off on an airplane. That's your breathing as opposed to being at sea level. Wow. But what they can do is that they can reverse their pressurization and actually pressurize it. Like a hyperbaric environment. No, you couldn't fly with a plane like this because it would be too heavy, but you can keep it on the ground and and make it a hyperbaric chamber. And you know those oxygen masks that come from the ceiling already, right? So they could use those oxygen masks as a way to get more oxygen into circulation. So this is just one of those sort of crazy ideas. But it's a really interesting idea where you can actually retrofit airplanes to be hyperbaric chambers. Wow.

Speaker 2: (23:31)
Because that's one of the reasons we get jet lag, isn't it? Because we're, we're, we're at this, um, you know, equivalent of 8,000 feet or 2,500 meters. Mmm. Right? So we're just, we were actually coming out with a bit of an altitude situation where you've actually not got enough oxygen and that's adding to the fact that you've been traveling for how many hours and sitting still and not oxygenating. Anyway,

Speaker 3: (23:55)
there's the circadian rhythm piece of it, but you are at low oxygen levels and you are at higher risk for jet lag and infection too, so that's why you have a higher risk for infection when you fly. Not so much because of the sanitation on the plane. Although yeah, the air itself on a plane isn't the cleanest. Yeah, and I'm hoping that one of the things that happens with this whole covert thing is that the air on planes becomes cleaner than it is now. That more is coming from the outside of the plane and be less being research related, but in in in essence the low oxygen environment is, is definitely not helping from your health perspective and like the Dreamliners. Some of the newer planes are pressurized to 6,000 feet above. See instead of the 8,000 you said it helps with jet lag and you add on circadian rhythm changes or helping urge on your circadian rhythms to be in the, the times when you're going on it's going to help significantly and that's what new plans are trying to do and that's a new health. Your hotel rooms are also trying to do as well, new hotel rooms with new lighting and things like that that are happening, which is super cool. But in essence, yes, the airplane itself is a hypo H Y P O Barrick environments. And we can make it and retrofit it to be a hyperbaric environment as well, which, so if you have any extra seven 30 sevens hanging around, let me know and we can work on it.

Speaker 2: (25:14)
There you go. We can got Richard put them together. That sounds really good because flying is one of a really big danger to our health and we've, we've seen the effects of covert going through airplanes, you know, all that sort of, um, um, I just wanted to, to touch on a couple of years, NGO Genesis. Can you explain what angiogenesis is and what is actually happening there in regards to Hochberg?

Speaker 3: (25:42)
Yeah. So angiogenesis is the creation of new blood vessels. And in a hyperbaric chamber, that acute infusion of, of oxygen, it's going to flood the body with more oxygen, but it's not going to create new blood vessels. What happens after a protocol call of hyperbaric therapy is that we have these epigenetic shifts, we have these shifts and expression of DNA and that DNA expression is shifted in a way that more blood vessels are created because of some of the various factors that are released under pressure and under a high oxygen conditions. Those are things like VEGF, which is a very common blood vascular growth factor and others. And we have these new blood vessels that form and they tend to form in areas where there is hypoxic tissue or there is low oxygen in tissue. They tend to form an areas where there have been injuries in the past. And so these new blood vessels which are created allow the sustainability of the results on the effects of hyperbaric therapy to be a longer term play.

Speaker 2: (26:43)
So if you have a heart problem, so you have to ha, you know, you've got a blockage in one of your, your arteries. Um, is this a possible way to get around that blockage without surgery in conjunction with surgery over the longer term enough stations here.

Speaker 3: (27:01)
So we're talking about collateralization of blood vessels, which which would, what I mean by that is that that's the medical term of you basically create collaterals around blockages and that's what a bypass is, right? A bypass procedure is creating ways to go around blockages. It's like, it's like going off the on ramp and taking the service road like around traffic, uh, that stopped and then going back on the service road back onto the freeway after the traffic is over kind of deal. That's a good way to describe it. What a collateral would be like a collateral road. And so hyperbaric therapy can help you create those. And we don't know about the heart specifically though because we haven't done the studies to know. But we do know from the studies that have been done that there is an increase in vascular density in the heart. There's an increase in vascular density in the brain after a protocol of therapy. And so as a result of that, you will have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue because you have more density of blood vessels. No, we haven't done the study looking at people with blocked blood vessels to see what happens under hyperbaric conditions. It just hasn't happened. But the conjecture that we have is that it would potentially help without collateralization. It goes off roads, service road kinds of ideas.

Speaker 2: (28:18)
Yeah. Going around, I heard, um, that DHEA is an interesting one for the main, at the uh, uh, erectile dysfunction can be helped with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, creating new new blood PA angiogenesis for that sort of a problem. Is that correct?

Speaker 3: (28:35)
Yeah, it's the same deal. I mean the, the physiology of hyperbaric therapy, it goes everywhere. Your, your full body is oxygenated. So decreasing inflammation, reversing hypoxia, the STEM cell release and killing bugs happens anywhere and that includes regenerating blood vessels in, in a penis or and uh, in areas around the heart or in areas that have degenerated otherwise. And so they did a study looking at erectile dysfunction in males that were relatively healthy and their erectile function improved after, I think it was 6,600 hyperbaric chamber treatments. And so that's new blood vessels that are getting created, a new blood vessel, low vascular flow and the penis. And so we have indications that happens in women as well with, with vaginal flow. But we don't have the studies to show that. Right. Often we'll get the, uh, the feedback from women and men that sex life is better in, in hyperbaric. There's people that have gotten hyperbaric therapy.

Speaker 2: (29:38)
That's a good reason.

Speaker 3: (29:40)
Yeah.

Speaker 3: (29:41)
Well, yeah, there are some studies on infertility already, uh, in helping with fertility because it helps getting it a deeper pressure helped, helps with the uterine lining. The uterine lining itself will, um, we'll get thicker under hyperbaric conditions we think. And then as a result of that, there's a higher chance for the embryo, the embryo to be implanted. And so if you have a thinner uterine lining, you can pick it up potentially in the chamber. So this is used already in Russia and in China as a fertility treatments actually quite commonly in the West and the U S it's not very common.

Speaker 2: (30:19)
No, I haven't come across the same one. You know, you the troubles with fertility for years. [inaudible] um, I'm going to get in there even more often now. That's not the reason.

Speaker 3: (30:31)
Just to be clear though, this is at the deeper pressures.

Speaker 2: (30:34)
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: (30:34)
It's shown effect. So this is at like two atmospheres, 2.4.

Speaker 2: (30:38)
The 1.5 why won't quite cut it so that, that sort of a problem. It probably can't hurt Kenneth.

Speaker 3: (30:44)
I don't think it would hurt. No. I mean, but there are certain things that I don't recommend going at less pressure. Uh, and that I'm pretty emphatic about. So the things that I don't feel are likely well-treated at 1.3 are any open wounds. Any open wounds really need to be treated at deeper pressures. If you have any ongoing infections. I don't, I feel for the most part, that 1.3 atmosphere is enough. Really. I see a significant benefit unless it's an it, a bug that does not like oxygen environments. And then in that case maybe, but the deeper pressures would likely still be better. Yeah. If you have any chemical sensitivities, these chambers can sometimes make them worse because they're made out of a plastic material. And that plastic material, uh, does off gas to some degree. And I do find that some of my patients that are highly sensitive, so plastics and to chemicals, uh, will not feel good in these kinds of chambers either.

Speaker 3: (31:46)
If you have any of the FDA approved conditions in my country, I don't recommend using a soft chamber either. Those should be done in deep pressures. The only approved indication for these chambers, assault chambers, that's insurance coverage in the U S is acute mountain sickness. So you go up a mountain too fast, you get signs of altitude sickness, you can get into one of these chambers and you can feel better pretty quickly. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why I have some interests in, Oh, there has been interested in coven 19 specifically because they're thinking that some of the physiology is similar. Yeah. Altitude tickets, how people are, how responding to the virus.

Speaker 2: (32:30)
So, so, so most of those, um, so since only the only thing that, uh, Molotov America is approved for is mountain, even though there are, but, um, from, from, yep. Okay.

Speaker 3: (32:45)
There are studies to show that these pressures can be beneficial for brain related conditions. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: (32:52)
Yep. Mmm. That's interesting. So, so oxygen oxidative stress was the next thing I wanted to touch on. So, so w when we think of oxidative stress, we think that that's a negative thing. Generally. You know, we should, we need to get rid of the oxidants in our body and we need antioxidants and we need to detox and so on. So why isn't this case oxidative stress? Not a bad thing. What is it [inaudible] is it an oxidative stress?

Speaker 3: (33:19)
Well, there's a lot of things in life that are good for us that are oxidative stress. One of the most common, hopefully his exercise exercise creates inflammation and oxidative stress. Body responds with the ability to produce antioxidants. And then as a result of those anti-oxidants being released, the body has a way of compensating and then growing stronger. And that's what's happening inside a hyperbaric chamber. Every single thing that's happening almost in a hyperbaric environment is because of oxidative stress. The only thing that's not as a result of oxidative stress is purely the oxygen infusion that's getting more oxygen to the cells and that's allowing more energy to be produced, but everything else, of course, that's very important, but everything else, the oxidative stress causes those epigenetic changes that are happening on the DNA. It causes is that STEM cell release, it causes that inflammatory downregulation.

Speaker 3: (34:17)
It causes those that vasoconstriction, that constriction of blood vessels that could be injured during an acute event, so it's oxidative stress that initially spurs the system to have a cataclysmic cataclysmic. Yup. Okay. That sounds almost like like a catastrophe. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Basically, you know, it's a huge catalyst for change. Cataclysmic and catalysts are not the same word, but I had a huge catalyst for change. But what happens is that the body, just like with exercise, has a significant ability to have a reactive antioxidant search and that antioxidant surge, it happens and equates or balances out all that oxidative stress or the oxidative stress that we gave the body initially. So it's important for me when I'm thinking about hyperbaric protocols, I think about the person in front of me, I think is this person, somebody that has the ability to have a re the reactive antioxidant surge to balance out that oxidative stress. Because if you're not healthy, if you are sick, if you're inflamed, if you have lots of chronic conditions you made, do be depleted in various things that could make it difficult for you to do this. And that's why I'm very emphatic when I can and when there's time to consider a foundational of cellular health, looking at vitamins, minerals, nutrients, antioxidant levels, looking at signs of gut dysbiosis and immune system function to understand how well somebody is going to do in the chamber before they get in.

Speaker 2: (35:54)
So that, that's a perfect segue because I wanted to go into, um, the whole foundational health, uh, and, and, and also adjunctive therapies too. Hyperbaric. Um, so it started with a couple of things like Mmm. You know, like taking things like vitamin C infusions before going into hyperbaric, uh, doing the keto diet or exogenous ketones in combination with hyperbaric. Mmm. And then looking as the next step and the conversation into the foundational things which really need to be addressed as well. Um, so they start with it junked of therapies that will benefit from a hyperbaric in combination.

Speaker 3: (36:40)
Sure. So yeah, that's a good segue I feel before getting into adjunctive, it's important I think to describe that I jumped in. Therapies can definitely synergize together, but it's really important I feel to have a good sense of your own foundational biology before you start stacking therapies on top of each other. Because synergistic tools that are both potentially oxydative, IB, vitamin C, and I can direct therapy, it can be very helpful. However, if you don't have the capacity to physiologically benefit from it or potentially have side effects as a result of the too much oxidative stress, it could be detrimental. So when I think about stacking therapies, I often try to take it a step back and say, okay, let's look at that foundation assessment first. Like your vitamins, your minerals, your nutrients, you're announcing the levels. That's the reprogram that I have that I, that I work with called health optimization medicine, which was founded by a colleague of mine named dr Ted Archer, COSO.

Speaker 3: (37:43)
And I work as the C Oh of our nonprofit that's educating doctors on how to do this. And I also have my own clinic concierge virtual clinic, really in the Bay area in San Francisco, working with clients across the U S across the world. So once I've done that, once I've looked at that foundational biology, then I think about therapies that can stack on top of hyperbarics or with it. One of the things that I think about is a low level light there. There'll be a low level light technologies because lights have the ability to get more oxygen to tissue by dilating the blood vessels in that area. And so if you're dilating various blood vessels in an area, you can then get more oxygen to that area. So that's one way for some specific spectrums of light to help. Um, infrared light is also really good for detoxification.

Speaker 3: (38:33)
So I often combine hyperbaric therapy with detox publication strategies and one of them being infrared light, I think about post electromagnetic field technologies. Wow. Those are micro circulatory pulses of electromagnetic fields that can help with circulation. And then increasing circulation is going to help you benefit in a hyperbaric chamber as well because you're getting more tissue oxygenated because there's more tissue that's dilated in blood vessels. And so we can help there. I also think about using various technologies inside of a hyperbaric chamber. If you're in a software like this one because then now you can bring in things that are portable and then you can do brain training like neurofeedback for example. And you can do other types of brain training and using computers or iPads or whatever, doing certain things to sort of work on your multitasking capabilities and, and the like. And you can do a lot of other different things. But those are some of the things that come to mind.

Speaker 2: (39:31)
Wow. This is what really getting into the whole, you know, optimizing in, in high performance and being able to, to stack the different biohacks if you like. And the different things on top of each other. I'm very interested in the infrared light therapy and um, have some of the products from vital light. Um, again, something that I've used in conjunction with, uh, for mums rehab. Mmm. And uh, very interested in the PME if I haven't had a chance to, to go down that route, but very keen cost prohibitive to have that at home unfortunately. Um, so there are so many amazing things in the biohacking world if you like, where we can actually, uh, sat to look with relatively low risk, um, the lights therapy. Um, it's an interesting one. Also the detrimental effects of blue light coming from our computer screens, stuff like that.

Speaker 2: (40:28)
Um, yeah and that's um, you know, probably a topic for another day. But what I did want to go into is as you work with dr Ted COSO who I would love to get on the show as well. He's amazing. Um, so dr Ted, uh, is from the Philippines and he has a um, uh, he has health optimization, Madison and so you are the CEO of that company. Can you tell us, well dr tin has created his own own hole. What would you call it, system of looking at so meter below mix the hollow biome. Can you explain what the heck those are? Cause I'm sure nobody listening to this podcast would have come across those terms yet. Sure, no problem.

Speaker 3: (41:16)
Yeah. So dr ten's an anti-aging doctor. He, uh, we specialize in antiaging medicine and then created his own practice that looks right. Two, I think take the best of conventional medicine. And then the best of what was under the radar in conventional medicine, which is called metabolomics, which is the field of study that we look at real time cellular metabolites. So the real time factors that are making ourselves work. And we can measure all of this. This is something that I didn't know when I was in medical school that you can actually do, but you can actually measure all of these various factors and understand how the body is making energy, how the body is processing your various foods into like from macronutrients all the way down to micronutrients, understanding how we can measure antioxidant levels. And so you can do all this. And so what Ted developed was a way to do this sort of like in the 80 20 framework, which is 80% of the benefit for 20% of the testing and focusing that testing on health and not focusing on any specific disease or condition and setting that aside for the moment and, and just doing, Mmm.

Speaker 3: (42:25)
More testing related to health and health focus. And so the program itself has seven pillars, but they all comprise what's called the hollow biomes. H, O, L, O, B, I, O, N, T. And this is the idea that we are not just an individual in a population, but we're actually up population of organisms or individuals together in ourselves, in it of ourselves. So we are made up of fungus, virus, bacteria, human. And then we're also made up of the, the metabolites or the production, the toxins and the other things that are in environment. That's all happening all on our cellular level that we can see. So the idea is to create a program for people that uses all of that data that we can measure and understanding where it's coming from and then how to optimize and balance. So the first pillar is metabolomics, which is looking at the cellular data.

Speaker 3: (43:25)
Another one is epigenetics or looking at how our environment and how are exposures overall change how our epigenetics are or express or how our DNA is expressed through epigenetics, looking at chronobiology or circadian rhythms and how light especially affects our circadian rhythms, looking at the gut immune system. So that's our gut microbiota and in detail how our gut is a very significant indicator of our overall health and our immune health and neurologic and psychologic health are all related to our gut, just on some level looking at evolutionary biology. So the idea is that we have trade offs in our evolution that some certain traits will help us when we're younger, but actually be a detriment to us when we're older. And also how our evolutionary biology is related to our ancestry. So where our ancestry as well also indicate where we should potentially best focus our diet and our and how we change it depending on seasons, et cetera. And there's also the bioenergetics pillar, which is related to energy production, other cellular level. And that's mostly our mitochondria as well, where we're making energy and exposomics, which is the study of toxins, the toxins in our environment. But in essence, this is what we call our whole bio. And we can use about 500 or so data, measure measures to look at measures of all of these things and then create programs for our clients using those metrics and these pillars. [inaudible] really optimize health over the longterm. That's the idea.

Speaker 2: (45:09)
Wow. So that's just, this is, this is unsigned and something that I'm hoping to study in that in the future. Once I get through the next lot of study, it's just seems to be one

Speaker 3: (45:19)
the chamber you can study.

Speaker 2: (45:21)
I do. I was yesterday sitting in there listening to all your lectures and preparing for today's podcast. It's a brilliant way to do it and it just seems so much to learn. Mmm. And I'm very interested in dr Tibbs work and um, you know, coming to grips with it. Um, you know, we, we, we do something in our company, you know, if the genetic testing was that dr Alberto Gralise work and we're finding that absolutely. Yeah. Fascinating. Now, adding in the functional genomics into that with document's or Mohammed's work, uh, it just gives another lens at another lens to be able to look through. And the microbiome is an, is an area anyways, you know, um, you can't have one without the other. I just wish there was more hours on a day to day to deep misinformation.

Speaker 3: (46:08)
It's a network, Lisa. I think that's what you're going at, right? It's a network effect. Our body doesn't work in silos. You don't just have a heart, you just don't have a brain. You don't just have a gut. They all work together. It's this beautiful symphony. Mmm. Bacteria, virus cells, humans, human cells, mitochondria, which can be classified potentially as bacteria cells as well. Probably back in the day became or came from bacteria that combined with another type of cell that didn't have oxygen capabilities. And that's our, so we have all these things working together. We have hormones working together. We have chemical factories called cytokines working together, um, from a distance. Nothing has to be right next to each other to get there. We have blood vessels, we have lymphatics, we have nerves and other different types of channels to get things. So where they need to go with neurotransmitters.

Speaker 3: (47:00)
And so it's very difficult to just boil it down. So just a couple of things. I think where the future is going, there's a great article that I loved. It was actually, I think published about six months ago. It was at, it was actually published at Stanford, they called it the narcissism like narcissistic, right? The idea that you'll know everything about yourself, you're no your jeans, you'll know you're genomics, your proteomics, which are the proteins get from genes, you'll know your epigenomics, you'll know you're metabolomics and you will be able to use all this data to create a personalized understanding of you, your risk factors, but also what's actually happening to you right now and getting ideas of what you need to do now so that you can optimize over the longterm. The problem with just looking at genomics is that yeah, it gives you risks of what you may have, but it doesn't tell you actually what's happening.

Speaker 3: (47:56)
That's what metabolomics does. And so the narcissism is the idea that you have access to all this information and access to the data that's being, I studied as a result of this information too. So anyway, I think we're all gonna have those in our pocket books at some point in the next two years. It's a fascinating to be able to have all of that and to be able to look through these different lenses and to look at the person as a whole. And I think that's where, um, you know, allopathic medicine has had its limitations and that every specialty is very siloed in, in not necessarily communicating with. Right. Hmm. It's still too siloed and the brain does a work independently of the knee and the, you know, whatever the case might be. Mmm. Is it interconnected, focused on, in the past I'm saying would that would be a fear?

Speaker 3: (48:52)
Well, because as human beings, we try to simplify things as much as possible. There's very good reasons for that. Um, and I'm not, I'm going to be against it, but I think it's important that you have certain people that specialized in organs and do the work that they do and be very, very good at it. But it's like not having a primary care doctor, I'm just going to see a specialist. If you're just in the conventional world, what's going to happen is that you just get opinions in the very singular lens of that particular organ system. So it doesn't look at the big picture. And then you look outside the conventional system and you have to think about this larger, this larger understanding to really get a good holistic, comprehensive plan I feel of of how to maintain your health over the longterm. Cause if you're just looking at, I want to optimize my heart function, I want optimize my, my brains function.

Speaker 3: (49:48)
It's like, well what about your gut? You know, what about your antioxidant levels? What about your, see, what about you're motion in your feet and how that's affecting your back. And there's all these other aspects of things that are important. So I tend to work with people that look at more of a holistic view of movement and holistic view of health with whatever capacity. And I do my best to help people across the world in not only hyperbaric therapy, but helping them understand the best ways to approach their goals from a holistic perspective. And so I do, I think you remember, I do virtual consultations, education, advocacy for hyperbaric across the world. And I love new challenges and ways to people. I mean, I often get the thing, it's the same things over and over again, but I love when new things kind of pop up and I go, Oh, that's super interesting. And then I get to harness the network that I've created across the world to really help people. And a lot of these things, things can be done remotely now, which is great, which is even even better given that most of us are stuck in our homes. No, anyway, at the moment, given the whole pandemic thing, I was talking to my hyperbaric chamber for a little while longer, which I'm not too sad about that.

Speaker 2: (50:58)
And, and you know, I find this just such a refreshing approach that you, you know, as a doctor, as a medical doctor, an internal doctor who's looked outside of the box you had on your website somewhere or some somewhere I read, you know, the box was broken a long ago. Um, you don't all to confine yourself to one way of thinking or one.

Speaker 3: (51:18)
There was never a box

Speaker 2: (51:20)
for me, Lisa.

Speaker 3: (51:23)
It was actually, I created a box after not having a box and then I broke it open again. I grew up because I'm the son of a chiropractor who didn't have a box. There was no such thing. And so aye created some sides of that box and some, you know, some stingy walls and pretty thin walls when I went to medical school. So I could learn what I needed to learn and then now use that information and work within that framework when necessary in the conventional framework, but also knowing that they're clumsy and that it's easy to get outside of those walls and we should, especially if there's time, if there's time to work unconventionally than work on unconventionally. If there isn't a time work eventually, but also do unconventional things if you can and you could do them side by side. And that's one of the things I specialize in too is understanding that most things in life are not mutually exclusive and you don't always have time to wait for one or the other. And sometimes you just kind of have to throw the bus at it in a very methodical way to help it. I know that's what you did with your mom.

Speaker 2: (52:31)
Yeah. By Sigma. Yeah. A multifaceted Chuck everything. It started them out at the wall and I'd hope some of it sticks. [inaudible] it has,

Speaker 3: (52:41)
yeah. Throw shit at the wall is like is the nice way of saying it for maybe the nonsense nice way of saying

Speaker 2: (52:46)
and, and

Speaker 3: (52:47)
you do that in a methodical way and that's the important, the thing that I try to emphasize is that there has to be a physiologic reason and they have to be done, at least if it's, yeah. If it's a recommendation for me, it's have to be done in a methodical way that you kind of understand what's happening. And w the factors that are playing and not just throwing shit at the wall without a plan of what shit is going at the wall. At what time

Speaker 2: (53:10)
and looking at the risk reward. Yeah. And then making sure that you're not, um, and you know, for someone like, so, you know, if my nature is, is very much a dive in and just have a crack and, um, you know, sometimes they have to pull myself back and go hang a minute. The risks too high here or yeah.

Speaker 3: (53:29)
Words. So

Speaker 2: (53:31)
yeah, it's really, it's, you know, it's one thing to do it on yourself. It's another thing with other people in being able to,

Speaker 3: (53:40)
yeah. What I was saying is that as a new Zealander, you're, you're known for your risk taking. So sometimes you gotta you gotta you gotta bring it back in a notch there.

Speaker 2: (53:48)
Exactly. Yup. Too much adrenaline. You can say it in my epigenetics, my ring finger is longer than my index finger. I've got too much to drink. Nice. Um, but you know, like doctor dr Cher, you know, we'll wrap up in a second, but I just wanted to thank you so much because the advocacy that you're doing, the work, the connections that you're boating, the network, you really are the worlds having age of, of, of Oh this new, whatever the says that sets happening with us as personalized health, uh, this new paradigm shifts. And um, I'm excited to get your message out there. So if any of the lessons sitting out there, we'd like to talk to Dr. Scott because obviously he's a super expert in everything from a hyperbaric right through to metabolomics and the holiday BYOD. Um, if you would like a bitch or a consultation with doctors, dr shear, where can they go doctor?

Speaker 3: (54:43)
So for my consultation work, my education and advocate, you can see work, I do it all through my, my website. It's integrative HBO t.com

Speaker 2: (54:52)
integrated kioti.com.

Speaker 3: (54:54)
Yeah. And then if you could also disconnect with me on Instagram to add Dr. Scott [inaudible], S C O T T S H E R R. And I also, we can set some things up through that as well if people have interest. I've been looking to post more and get more out there for people. And I know I've been doing podcasts for awhile but I feel like smaller little bits of information are helpful too given the attention deficits of our current state of affairs. So I have this like funny airplane pillow around my neck there. That's better. Okay. Um, so it was nice when I was in the other position. Um, but so those are the two major places that I do my education, advocacy and consultation. I also have a new Facebook group actually just set up called optimize H optimize HBO T with Dr. Scott Cher.

Speaker 3: (55:43)
And this is a really fun one. I'm looking to have a location where we all can kind of get along in the hyperbaric community. They have like the heart chamber advocates and the salt chamber advocates and you have to be able to know a lot about having barrier therapy in that, you know, very little. And my hope is to create a platform where we can kind of all come together and I'm going to be creating content and curating content with a team of people to hopefully bring, I think I hope the community together a little bit more and bring more information out there. So that's a new, that's a new one that I've just come out with.

Speaker 2: (56:16)
I'm definitely count me in, count me in. I'm definitely an advocate for all of us. And um, want to share, you know, um, I've just sent you actually a copy of my book. I don't know if it'll get through when the covert situation, but I really want the story to get out.

Speaker 3: (56:32)
Yeah. For sure.

Speaker 2: (56:33)
Yeah,

Speaker 3: (56:34)
we'll hear that story.

Speaker 2: (56:35)
Yeah. And that's like 250 and counting hyperbaric sessions so far.

Speaker 3: (56:41)
That's amazing what you and your mom has done. It's really beautiful.

Speaker 2: (56:44)
That is really beautiful. So Dr. Scott, thank you so much. I'll put all those links for everybody in the show notes today. I really appreciate your time. Um, it's very, very precious to me and I really, really grateful for you doing all this work. So thank you very much. Okay,

Speaker 3: (57:00)
and you, Lisa. Thanks for all your hard work and your advocacy and it's been my pleasure to be on your podcast, my first one in the hyperbaric chamber.

Speaker 1: (57:09)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Cancer treatments in modern medicine often have long-lasting and harmful side effects. While modern treatments like chemotherapy can be useful in some cases, not all cancer patients need to — or should — resort to it. When cancers aggressively develop, patients are often told how many weeks they have left to live. Why is this the case when there is still hope to be free from cancer?

Research and clinical studies have found natural therapies and dieting are possible cancer treatments. The truth is, you can starve cancer cells without harming your body!

In this episode, Jane McLelland, author of How to Starve Cancer, discusses how cancer develops in the body and what causes dysfunctional mitochondria. She shares the importance of starving cancer cells and why cancer treatments should vary based on the type you have. Don't lose hope; you can beat cancer. Understand how it works metabolically and you’ll soon be on the path to recovery.

If you want to learn more about beating cancer by starving it, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how cancer develops in our bodies and why mRNA can help us detect early cancer. 2. Learn why there is no one correct approach to cancer treatment. Instead, focus on understanding the principle of starving cancer by blocking specific pathways. 3. Discover Jane’s recommendations on what to focus on for cancer treatment.

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Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Learn Jane's four pillars to help you recover from cancer with the How to Starve Cancer Online Course * Episode 227: Fighting Cancer and Other Diseases Using the Ketogenic Diet with Dr Dominic D’Agostino * Boulder Longevity Institute * PubMed * Australian Integrative Medicine Association * Learn from Dr Elizabeth Yurth on the function of our mitochondria: * + Episode 196: Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health + Episode 187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity * Connect with Jane: Website I Twitter I LinkedIn I Email (info@howtostarvecancer.com)

Episode Highlights [04:40] Why Jane Wrote ‘How to Starve Cancer’ * Jane shares that she was first diagnosed with cancer when she was 30. Her cancer developed to an advanced stage over a prolonged screening. * Her mother had stage-IV breast cancer and passed away a few years later. * As her cancer developed further, Jane felt that the medical industry wasn’t helping her enough. * There was already research on how glucose serves as a fuel for cancer. However, Jane found out that cancer can also metabolise glutamine and protein — even lipids. * Jane wrote her book to help people starve cancer without starving themselves. Starving cancer is about being blocking the different chemical pathways that cancer uses.

[13:10] How Cancer Develops * In 1924, Warburg found that cancer cells use sugar up to 20 times more than normal cells; this an indication that cancer is a metabolic disease. * Jane argues that cancer is linked to the microenvironment and often develops when a patient has inflammation. * Inflammation can develop due to obesity, exposure to carcinogens, and more. * Hormonal influences can also promote cancer growth. These influences include exposure to xenoestrogen, plastics, microwaves, and microplastics. * These influences can change mRNA to trigger changes in the mitochondrial DNA, leading to cancer development.

[19:25] How to Detect Early Cancer * You can prevent cancer as long as you understand what’s causing it. * Dysfunctional mitochondria are a symptom and not the cause. * It's critical to look at changes in the mRNA to detect early cancer.

[20:47] Learn to be Careful about what You Take * There isn’t a lot of data regarding mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines and their long-term effects on the human immune system. * We need to be careful about what we’re putting in our bodies and their potential consequences. * For example, high doses of Vitamin E and NAC may be inappropriate for specific cancers. * Jane shares that small doses of NAC can be beneficial when you're trying to kill cancer and improve immunity post-chemotherapy. * Stopping glutamine transport is also helpful to block fuel transport to cancer cells.

[25:45] There’s no One Solution for Cancer * Cancers work differently and can have different fuel sources. No single approach will beat all cancer types. * For example, B cell lymphoma is responsive to ferroptosis. However, you need to ensure that this method kills only the cancer cells and does not affect the brain. * HDAC inhibitors are also viable cancer treatments.

[30:31] How Homocysteine can Help or Worsen Your Condition * Jane recommends having low to normal homocysteine levels by sometimes taking vitamin B. Cysteine can help provide backup replenishment for cells. * When you're trying to induce ferroptosis and have high homocysteine, the cancer cells may utilise the homocysteine instead. * This is why your homocysteine levels should be low before starting ferroptosis for cancer treatment.

[32:08] There are Better Cancer Treatments * Most medical practitioners are often not updated with the latest clinical studies and tend to dismiss them. * For example, high doses of Vitamin C can be used as a pharmaceutical, and not an antioxidant. * There are ways to treat terminal illnesses even when medical professionals tell you otherwise.

[43:50] Don’t Focus on Only One Phase of Cancer * Jane’s book is a simplified discussion of cancer metabolism and how cancer develops. * Current cancer treatments often don’t focus on earlier phases of cancer development. * You need to tackle every phase of cancer and stop the tumour environment that helps cancer grow. Diet can make a huge difference. * Ketones and hydroxybutyrate are also HDAC inhibitors and can help with ferroptosis. * Hyperbaric oxygen therapy can also help since cancer cells can't thrive with high oxygen levels.

[49:18] Cancer Treatment is Different Per Phase * Lisa shares that her mother is currently following the Riordan Protocol. They use a blend of Vitamin C, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and ketones. * Fenugreek can help stimulate the production of free radicals, but you need to avoid antioxidants like luteolin and green tea. * You need to ensure you're getting the desired effect in the right phase. The kill phase tends to be more specific. * In the full episode, Jane discusses how berberine and metformin can help lower cancer markers.

[54:29] Jane’s Recommendations * Jane recommends being careful with taking DCA since some brands can cause inflammation. * Deoxy glucose is like fake glucose that the body recognises as glucose, but cancer cells don't. * Melatonin can block glycolysis pathways. * Jane recommends being selective when taking her course. You don’t need to learn about every single pathway. She recommends focusing on glycolysis, glutamine, fats, and lipids. * Jane shares what she did to block her cancer pathways in the full episode.

[1:01:55] Remember, It’s about the Metabolic Pathway * Over the years, starving cancer has become the critical key to curing cancer. * Remember that cancer is about the metabolic pathway. You need to have the right combination of supplements and cancer treatments.

7 Powerful Quotes [01:51] "...if you're at all affected by cancer in your family, if you have high-risk factors, one in six of us is going to get cancer at some stage in our lives, and you need to know this stuff."

[09:11] "...the trick was trying to find ways that would actually starve the cancer without having to go on starving yourself."

[16:44] "I think a lot of people stop the estrogen, and I think it's a good idea, in many cases, to reduce or your estrogen exposure. That can be plastics, it can be cooking in the microwave, just all sorts of, you know. Now, it's just about everywhere. We've got tiny bits of microplastic in the air as well now. It's just pervasive."

[18:29] "There are these viruses that can cause cancer, and I think it's a combination of the influence of kind of like these things acting a bit like a parasite."

[23:38] "People should have the choice of doing that [going unvaccinated] if they want to run that risk. But the problem is it's putting other people at risk, and you get slated."

[27:03] "You have to tailor your approach a little bit. Is it feeding more on glutamine? Is it feeding more —? What are the mutations?"

[35:50] "...you have to fight for your rights. You really do. When it comes to this, they don't have the answer for cancer."

[53:10] "But it's all about getting the correct effect..you've got to be a little bit careful that what you're doing with one thing doesn't counteract something else. "

About Jane Jane McLelland trained as a Chartered Physiotherapist and was able to win the Sarah Leeson Memorial Award as a promising student. She then worked in the NHS and private practice for 12 years, specialising in orthopaedics and neurology. From 1994 to 2004, Jane battled two aggressive terminal cancers. For that reason, she put together a cancer-starving formula using natural therapies, exercise, and diet to save herself.

After her recovery, Jane advocated for off label drugs for cancer therapy and wrote the book How to Starve Cancer. In 2019, she won the title of "Amazing Women Global" from the Lifetime Achievement Award.

Interested in Jane’s work? Check out her website.

You can also connect with her on Twitter, LinkedIn, and email (info@howtostarvecancer.com).

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In today’s modern world, we have seen numerous advances and progresses in the medical sciences each day. There is an even high demand for non-invasive procedures to maintain physical and mental health. In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Lew Lim as he talks about photobiomodulation (PBM). He shares his journey in studying and inventing this therapeutic procedure for over 30 years.

According to Dr. Lim, when talking about photobiomodulation, they mean the use of red and near-infrared light. This kind of light is used in low-level laser therapy. He explains how this light is absorbed by the mitochondria in your cells during the procedure. Then, it relieves pain or stimulates and enhances cell function.

Want to know the benefits of photobiomodulation in your body, specifically, your brain? Then, this episode is created for you. You will gain an insight into the biochemical processes behind this procedure. And how it shows promising results in medicine, especially, in treating certain diseases.

Here are three things you’ll learn from this episode: 1. Discover how Dr. Lew Lim’s journey in studying photobiomodulation and how it can stimulate the brain to promote healing 2. Learn the important role of the mitochondria in photobiomodulation 3. Find out more about the benefits of photobiomodulation in our health and well-being

About Dr Lew Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer. Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.

To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to www.vielight.com

Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.

For more information on photobiomodulation and this area of medicine visit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5215795/

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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How well do you think you’re managing your stress? If you work in a fast-paced environment, this can be difficult. We tend to power through our tasks and stress, but this can lead to burnout in the long run. Burnout can then result in anxiety and depression that can make it even harder to deal with stress. Stop the cycle by going back to the basics and learn to manage your sleep and support your body with ketones!

In this episode, Damian Porter shares how he has adapted to his busy and high-pressure lifestyle as a firefighter and former Special Forces operator. Even though his training made him relentless, he has also learned the value of working smarter rather than harder. When trying to manage stress, make sure that you’re getting good quality sleep. Ketones can also help manage stress and can reduce anxiety by as much as 40%!

If you want to learn more about managing stress in a fast-paced or high-pressure lifestyle, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how Damian can keep up with fast-paced and stressful situations as a former Special Forces operator and firefighter. 2. Understand that you can manage your stress if you support your body properly. Sleep is the first step. 3. Learn how ketones, specifically exogenous ketones, can help you lower stress, manage weight loss and more!

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Episode 220: Handling Pressured Situations and Making Career Transitions with Conrad Smith * Episode 211: How Sleep Affects Our Lives and Why It's Vital with Dr Kirk Parsley * Episode 206: How to Achieve Metabolic Health with Prof Grant Schofield * Start tracking your sleep with Whoop. * Everything Harder Than Everyone Else by Jenny Valentish * Real Ketone’s study on Ketones for Weight Loss and Body Composition * Real Ketone’s study on How D-BHB Ketones Lowers Normal Stress and Anxiety * Learn more about Real Ketones: Website | Youtube | Instagram | Pinterest | TikTok * Connect with Damian: Website | Facebook | Instagram | Email

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:04] Damian’s Experiences before Joining the Special Forces * Damian shares he used to bodybuild when he was around 19 years old, and he was a Pan Pacific champion. * Then, he joined the army in New Zealand. In 2000, he was sent to East Timor for a mission. * His experience in the military taught him to be less selfish. It made him see how people grow up and learn the realities of developing countries. * Damian recounts his time in East Timor in the full episode.

[09:17] How to Cope with Trauma * Seeing terrible situations during his mission taught Damian to compartmentalise. * Talking to others can help you avoid bottling up feelings. You can start with one friend or your partner first, then your teammates. * Sleep is also important. It’s where we can disconnect our emotions from traumatic events. * Get the basics right. Have good food, exercise, sleep and connect with others.

[12:34] How Damian Joined the Special Forces * After his time in East Timor, Damian left the military and went into exercise rehabilitation. * After one and a half years, he went back to the military. By 2005, he helped form a counterterrorism team as a standalone squadron. * Selection for Special Forces is different since the job is different. Damian observes that one criterion is people’s response and management of physical and mental pain.

[17:05] The Mindset to Help You Keep Going * Damian shares that the Special Forces’ tenets are hard-wired into them and help them keep doing their work. * The first tenet is the unrelenting pursuit of excellence. Always be better than your best. * Next, have the discipline to learn and teach.

[18:45] Keep Learning and Evolving * He shares that the Special Forces constantly evolves and now supports people to rest and not go hard all the time. In fact, a regiment in Australia has sleeping pods in their camp. * He also shares that his team is able to relax before missions. Be able to switch on and off before difficult and serious situations. * Damian recommends working and training smarter, not harder. This includes exercise selection and performance. * Keep up with the times and stay humble. Be willing to learn from others, even when they’re younger than you.

[23:21] How to Cope with Changes and Transitions * In professional sports, athletes face the problem of transitioning out of their careers. * These athletes tend to be stuck in a bubble that can burst if they get injured and can’t play anymore. * Damian shares that this can be similar to those from the military. Once they come back, they often feel like fish out of the water. * Therefore, having a team of people to support you through changes is important.

[29:12] How to Manage Your Thoughts and Actions * Remember that people react to situations differently. For example, if you’re prone to be addicted to dopamine, you may find it harder to be satisfied. * Understand your genes better so you won’t beat yourself up for things that don’t suit you in the first place. * Remember that your biology will create your thoughts. If your body lacks certain chemicals, you will naturally want to fill the void. * If you want to change your thinking, start with self-awareness and reflection.

[34:01] How Damian Started Ketones * Damian is now with the fire brigade in Australia and coaches clients on sleep and nutrition. * Six years after he left the Special Forces, Damian shares he was depressed and anxious. This led him to learn about ketones in 2015.

[35:42] How Ketones Can Help Us * Ketones are a fuel source. In the keto diet, people are aiming to get into a state of ketosis to use ketones to fuel the brain. * It can also help cancer patients, sports performance, depression and mood stabilisation. * A 2019 study shows that ketones can reduce anxiety by 40%. * When you’re on a keto diet or in a fasting state, the ketones can change glutamate into GABA. Glutamate is a chemical that can make us excited or anxious. * Ketones can also inhibit seizures.

[39:51] Damian Shares Real Ketones * Real Ketones carry two products. One is a human identical ketone, which is DBHB. The other is an LDBHB mix, which is more effective for anxiety, weight loss, and brain performance. * It’s found that the latter mix has a 59.9% drop in anxiety, 159% more fat loss and 10% greater brain processing speed.

[42:18] Why Exogenous Ketones? * Regardless of your diet, exogenous ketones can significantly raise your ketone levels. * Remember, ketone drinks were invented for the Navy Seals because it’s more convenient than depending on a keto diet. * Exogenous ketones can also help fat-adapted athletes lose weight and those who are prone to inflammation.

[52:09] The Importance of Sleep * Sleep can help you manage stress better. This is the first thing you need to work on. After that, you can layer on better food, ketones, exercise and other strategies. * Poor sleep for one year can easily lead to being 7 kilos overweight. It can also increase neurodegeneration, diabetes risk, cancer risk and more. * Due to his schedule as a firefighter, Damian shares how he would do Tabata exercises to stay awake. This is 4 minutes of exercise with cycles of 20 seconds of exercise and 10 seconds of rest. * He would also get light exposure and drink caffeine in the morning, as well as take theanine and ketones. * To make up for his lack of sleep, Damian would take magnesium, theanine, tryptophan and GABA.

7 Powerful Quotes 'Sleep is where we disconnect emotions from traumatic events. As if you've been up all night, not able to sleep, of course, you're gonna feel the same the next day.

'Getting good food, getting good sleep, bit of exercise, and having connection with somebody in some way is going to help you out.'

'You're just trying to do your best and then be better than that. Yeah, not just trying to hit a standard—trying to be better than that.'

'Driven people, they can achieve anything. And then they're asking themselves to do it by themselves. And that's where they fall over.'

'Connection is the cure...Build a team before you go. And the team just could be your wife. That's your team. At no point in the military and no point in the org base did you ever do anything by yourself.’

'I'm being self aware, being able to self reflect, and then apply something and if I can't do it, I'll ask someone that can help me identify it or help me throw it off, or get their advice, and then analyze that and then apply it to myself.'

'Your three year old: would you would you let them get by six hours sleep? If you possibly think on that, you think that's insane? Don't do it to yourself because we are the same as the three year old.'

About Damian Damian Porter has over 28 years of experience in the health and wellness industry. He is a career firefighter, champion national bodybuilder, exercise rehabilitation physiologist, former Special Forces Operator and a police officer with years of experience in both military and civilian applications.

Through his wide range of experiences, Damian is able to help clients achieve their optimal body, health, and performance-based on practical and educated perspectives.

Interested in Damian’s work? Check out his website.

You can also reach out to him on Facebook, Instagram, and email (porter.bookings@gmail.com).

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Becoming a championship medalist — or an Olympic medalist — is an ambitious goal that many athletes dream of. But are we training the right way? In reality, training to be an Olympic runner is more than just stretching your physical limits; it's also about your recovery, mental strength, environment and so much more.

In this episode, famed Olympic runner Rod Dixon joins us to talk about his journey in becoming an Olympic medalist and his victory at the NYC marathon. He shares why creating a strong foundation is crucial, no matter what you’re training for.

If you want to learn from and be inspired by one of New Zealand’s greatest runners, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

  1. Discover the necessary foundation an Olympic runner used to create a solid training base.
  2. Learn to believe in yourself and avoid being influenced by others.
  3. Understand how to build a strong mentality to handle self-doubt and hesitation.

Resources

  • Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limit Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for NZD 7 and NZD 15 per month, respectively. Check out the different benefits of each in the link.
  • Rod’s KiDSMARATHON is a running and nutrition educational programme organised to help children in the United States and the world! Check out his website.
  • Connect with Rob: LinkedIn

Episode Highlights

[05:01] How Rod Grew Up with Running

  • Rod shares that his brother John was a significant part of his running career. John helped coach Rod while Rod was young.
  • He fondly remembers his time growing up and always running from place to place.
  • His father used to explore and travel around Australia by bike, while his mother played basketball and did gymnastics.

[11:42] Early Years of Training

  • Learn by doing. You can run the same race twice, but don’t expect a different result when you do everything the same. Run differently.
  • Rod grew up loving cross country racing, especially the beach races through dunes.
  • It was during this time that he was inspired to reach for the 1968 Olympics. His brother, John, immediately put him on a training regimen.
  • Once you have a goal, you need to know how to reach it and what you’re prepared to do for it.
  • Multiple amazing runners inspired Rod to keep going for his goal. Tune in to find out who!

[19:13] Approach to the Foundations

  • Get the timing right first, not the miles. The foundation is to start with running long and slow.
  • Rod's brother, John, also helped keep a logbook of his training. This enabled them to narrow down what to improve and work on.
  • Athletes don’t get better from training; improvement comes from rest and recovery.
  • Learn to prioritise your health. This will bring more results than just pushing yourself too hard on your training all the time.
  • Know that there’s a period for different types of training. There will be times when you’ll need to set your foundations and conditioning right first.

[25:20] Rod’s Journey Towards Becoming an Olympic Runner

  • Getting acclimated to an area is essential to planning an Olympic runner’s training regimen.
  • With the help of John, Rod realised he was a strength runner. This knowledge became crucial in planning for his races.
  • When you train with runners, it will be a race. Train with marathon runners, and it will be a long and slow run. Choose your training partners based on your needs.
  • Rod’s training with runners helped him learn more than just racing. His nutrition improved, too.
  • Listen to the full episode for Rod’s exciting account of his Olympic journey—from qualifications to his training!

[36:47] Handling Self-Doubt

  • Rod shares that he also had bouts of self-doubt. During these times, he would look for his brother John, his mother and his grandmother.
  • Ground yourself and just run, not for training but to clear your head and be in the moment.
  • In a lot of things, confidence matters more than ability. The more confident you are, the more it will bring out your ability.
  • Don’t be influenced by bad habits.
  • What matters is finishing the race. Finishing in itself is already a win.

[42:02] Life as a Professional Athlete

  • Training effectively resulted in Rod becoming an Olympic runner, medalist and breaking records.
  • Rod shares that he works full-time in addition to taking on small jobs to balance the costs.
  • Tune in to the episode to hear the ups and downs of being an Olympic runner and a professional athlete.

[50:07] Transition from Short to Long Races

  • After his experiences as an Olympic runner, Rod wanted to focus on cross country and longer races.
  • Once you have your foundations, you will need to adjust your training for long races. It's not going to be much different from what you're already doing.
  • Rod shares that he had to work towards the NYC marathon through conquering half marathons and many other experiences.
  • Build on your experiences and learn to experiment. Rod discusses his training in the full episode!

[1:04:47] Believe in Your Ability

  • When preparing for a big race, you need to protect your mindset and remember that running is an individual sport — it's all about you.
  • Don’t be influenced by others. Learn to pace yourself and run your own race.
  • A race starts long before you set your foot on the track. Listen to the full episode for Rod’s recounting of the NYC marathon.

[1:21:23] Build and Develop Your Mentality

  • People will often hesitate when they face a hill. When you’re in this situation, just keep going.
  • Sometimes, some things won’t happen the way you want them to. But certainly, your time will come.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode

‘John would tell me. He said, ‘You know, you've run the same race twice expecting a different result.’ He said, ‘You've got to run differently.’

'He said, 'You know, you set a goal, but I won't tell you how to do it. So, you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do. And I think, [it was] then [that] I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.'

‘You don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.’

‘Just remember to learn by doing.’

‘I just thought this [the race] is about me. It's not about anybody.’

‘I learned all that in my road racing. That sometimes, you just can't run away from people, but you can find out their vulnerable moments. And when they would come into a hill, they would hesitate because they’d look up the hill. And that's when you try.’

'My mother had said that sometimes, things won't happen the way you want them to. Sometimes, you know, you're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had one that was my defining moment. It just took longer than average.'

About Rod Rod Dixon is one of the most versatile runners from New Zealand. For 17 years, Rod continuously challenged himself with races. His awards include a bronze medal from the 1972 Olympic 1500m, two medals from the World Cross Country Championship and multiple 1500m championship titles from the United States, France, Great Britain and New Zealand. But most importantly, he is well-known for his victory at the 1983 New York City Marathon.

Now, Rod is passionate about children's health and fitness due to the lack of physical exercise and nutrition among children. Through KiDSMARATHON, he helps thousands of children learn the value of taking care of their bodies and developing positive life-long habits. The foundation has since made a difference in many children’s lives.

You can reach out to Rod on LinkedIn.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Your host here, Lisa Tamati. Great to have you with me again. And before we head over to this week's exciting guest, just want to remind you, we have launched our premium membership for our patron programme for the podcast. So if you are loving the content, if you're enjoying it, if you're finding benefit in it and you want to help us keep getting this good content out to people, then we would love your support. And we would love to give you some amazing premium membership benefits as well. Head on over to patron.lisatamati.com. That's P-A-T-R-O-N patron.lisatamati.com, and join our exclusive membership club, only a couple of dollars a month. It's really nothing major. But what it does is it helps us make this content possible. As you can imagine, five and a half years of doing this for love, we need a little bit of help to keep this going if we want to be able to get world-leading experts and continue to deliver such amazing content. So if you can join us, we'd be really, really appreciative of it. Head over to patron.lisatamati.com.

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Right over to the show now with an amazing guest who is one of my heroes, a hero from my childhood actually. Now I have Rod Dixon to guest. Rod Dixon, for those who don't know who he is, maybe you were born only in the past 20 years or so, and you really don't know. But if you're around when I was a kid, this guy was an absolute superstar. He is a four-times Olympian; he won a bronze medal at the 1972 Olympics. He's a runner, obviously, he won in the 1500 meters bronze medal. He's won multiple times championships and cross-country running, and who really one of his biggest successes was to win the New York City Marathon and absolute mammoth feats to do back in 1983. So hope you enjoy the insights that Rod Dixon is going to provide for you today. If you're a runner, you will love this one. But even if you just love interesting, amazing people then check out this interview with Rod Dixon.

Lisa: Well, welcome everybody. Today. I have an absolute legend with me on the show. I have Rod Dixon, one of my heroes from way back in the day, Rod, welcome to the show. It's wonderful to have you on Pushing the Limits. Thanks for taking the time.

Rod Dixon: Lisa, thank you. I mean, of course, I've known about you and read about you but this is our first time, and it's come about through the pandemic. So, some good things have come out of this.

Lisa: There’s definitely some good things come out of it. And I've definitely known about you sort of pretty much my entire, since I was a little kid. So you’re one of my heroes back in the day, so I was like, ‘Oh, wow’. And the funny thing is, we got to meet through a friend in America who just happened to know you. And I was talking with them, and they're like, and I'm like, ‘Can you introduce me?’ Via America we've come, but to get you to Kiwi, so wonderful to have you on the show, Rod.

Rod, you hardly need an introduction. I think people know sort of your amazing achievements as an athlete and runner are many, and we're going to get into them. I think one of the biggest, most incredible things was winning the 1983 New York City Marathon. And that iconic image of you with your hands in the air going, and that guy behind you not such good shape. That's one of the most famous images there is. But Rod, can you tell us a little bit about your story, where you came from, how did that you were such a good runner? Give us a bit of background on you.

Rod: I think, Lisa, I started… I was born in Nelson, and living out at Stoke, which is just not far out. And my brother, John, three years older, he went to Stoke Primary School. And so, I was in a centre, I think. And my mother came out to check on me. And there’s a young Rod, and he sees, and he said in the centre, ‘I'll go and take my shower now’. And that was my chance to then put all the things that I've learned of how to climb over the gate. And I climbed over the gate, then off I went. My mother got the phone call from the Stoke school. ‘Where is your son, Rodney?’ He said, ‘Oh he’s at the back, hanging in the sand’, and she's, ‘No, well, he's down here at the Stokes school with his brother’. Because we used to walk John down to school and walk and go and meet him to walk him back. And so, I knew that way. And here is my chance, so I think, Lisa, I started when I was four years old, when I ran out.

Lisa: When you are escaping? And your brother John. I mean, he was a very talented, amazing runner as well. And actually, he's got into it before you did. Tell us a little bit of his story, because he was definitely been a big part of your career as well. Tell us about John a little bit.

Rod: Yeah, well, my mother's family were from Mishawaka. They're all farmers. And fortunately, they were tobacco farmers, hot guns, and sheep and cattle. And so, we would be over with the family a lot of the time. And of course, a big farm, and John would always say, ‘Let's go down and catch some eels’ or ‘Let's go chase the rabbits’. And so we're on, outside running around all over time. And I think, then we used to have running races. And John would say, ‘Well, you have 10 yards and say, for 20 yards, 50 yards, and see if you can beat me down to the swing bridge.’ And I would try, and of course he’d catch me. So, there was always this incredible activity between us. And my dad was a very good runner, too. And so, we would go down for our, from the north we’ll go down to the beach for swim. Pretty well, most nights we could walk and run down there. So we would all run down. And then we would run along the beach to the estuary, and run back again.

And then my dad, of course, he would stride out and just make sure that we knew our packing order. Slowly but surely, you see John waited for his moment where he beat dad. And I think, dad turned around and came back to me and he said, ‘I won't run with John, I'll just run with you’. So, I knew what the story was that I had to do the same, but it took me another couple of years before I could beat my dad. So, running was very much an expression, very much part of us. We’d run to school, we’d run home. I would deliver the newspapers in the neighbourhood, most of the time I would run with dad. So, and then at 12 years old, I was able to join the running club, the Nelson Amateur Athletic Harriot and Cycling Club. There’s three or four hundred in the club, and it was just incredible because it was like another extension of the family. And so we would run on farms and golf courses and at the beach or at the local school, sometimes the golf cart would let us run on the golf club. So, there was this running club. So the love of running was very part of my life.

Lisa: And you had a heck of a good genetics by the sound of it. You were just telling me a story, how your dad had actually cycled back in the 40s, was this around Australia, something like 30,000 miles or something? Incredible, like, wow, that's and on those bikes, on those days. And what an incredible—say he was obviously a very talented sports person.

Rod: I think he was more of an adventurer. We’ve got these amazing pictures of him with his workers in those days, they have to wear knee high leather boots. He’s like Doctor Livingstone, explorer. And so he was exploring and traveling around Australia, just his diaries are incredible. What he did, where he went, and everything was on the bike, everything.. So, it was quite amazing, that endurance, I think you're right, Lisa...

Lisa: You had it in there.

Rod: ...there’s this incredible thing and genetically, and my mother, she played basketball, and she was very athletic herself and gymnast. So I think a lot of that all came together for us kids.

Lisa: So you definitely had a good Kiwi kid upbringing and also some very, very good genetics, I mean, you don't get to the level that you have with my genetics that much. We're just comparing notes before and how we're opposite ends of the running scale, but both love running. It’s lovely. So Rod, I want to dive in now on to a little bit of, some of your major achievements that you had along the way and what your training philosophies were, the mentors that you had, did you follow somebody and started training? Who were you— so, take me forward a little bit in time now to when you're really getting into the serious stuff. What was your training, structure and stuff like back in the day?

Rod: Well, it's very interesting, Lisa. This was after did, in fact, incredibly, he was working, and with Rothmans, and he would travel the country. And he would come to the running clubs to teach the coaches, to impart his principles and philosophy with the coaches. And my brother being three years older, I think he tended to connect with that more so, as younger kids. And but we were just pretty impressed, and Bill Bailey used to come in as a salesperson, and he would come and we'd all go out for lunch with Bill and he would tell stories. And we were fascinated by that, and encouraged by it, and inspired by it. So, I think what John did, as we started, John will get to Sydney in 1990. And he noticed that young Rodney was starting to — our three favourite words, Lisa, it’s learned by doing. So I would learn from this race and I would adopt something different. I would try. When I knew, I mean, John would tell me, he said, ‘You've run the same race twice expecting a different result.’ He said, ‘You've got to run differently’. And I would go out train with John and then he would say, ‘Okay, now you turn around and go back home because we're going on for another hour’. So he knew how to brother me, how to look after me or study.

And so really, as I started to come through, John realised that maybe Rodney has got more talent and ability than I do. So, he started to put more effort into my training and that didn't really come to us about 18. So, he allowed those five, six years just for club running, doing the races, cross-country. I love cross country — and the more mud and the more fences and the more steep hills, the better I ran. And so that cross country running say I used to love running the beach races through the sand dunes. And I love trackless, fascinated with running on the grass tracks because of Peter Snell and yeah Murray Halberg. And also too fascinated with the books like The Kings Of Distance and of course, Jack Lovelock winning in 1936. One of the first things I wanted to do was to go down to Timaru Boys High School and hug the oak tree that was still growing there, 80 years old now, Lisa because they all got a little oak sapling for the end, and that is still growing at Timaru Boys High School,

Lisa: Wow. That was so special.

Rod: There's a lot of energy from all around me that inspired me. And I think that's what I decided then that I was going to take on the training, John asked me, and I said yes. And he said, ‘What do you want to do?’ And he said, and I said, ‘Well, I just listened to the 1968 Olympics on my transistor radio’ — which I tell kids, ‘That was Wi-Fi, wireless’. And I said, I want to go to the Olympics one day. And he said, ‘Right, well, they know you've made the commitment’. Now, obviously, during the training, John would say, ‘Well, hold on, you took two days off there, what's going on? So, that’s okay’, he said, ‘You set a goal, but I told you how to do it. So you've got to figure out what you're prepared to do’. And I think then I realised it was my decision making and I had to focus.

So I really, there was very, very few days that I didn't comply — not so much comply — but I was set. Hey, my goal, and my Everest is this, and this is what it's going to take.

Lisa: And that would have been the 19, so 1972.

Rod: No, 1968.

Lisa: 1968. Okay.

Rod: So now, I really put the focus on. Then we set the goal, what it would take, and really by 1970 and ‘70 or ‘71, I made the very, my very first Kewell Cross Country Tour. And I think we're finishing 10th in the world when I was just 20. We realised that that goal would be Olympics, that’s two years’ time, is not unreasonable. So, we started to think about the Olympics. And that became the goal on the bedroom wall. And I remember I put pictures of Peter Snell, Ron Clark and Jim Ryun and Kip Keino on my wall as my inspiration.

Lisa: Your visualisation technique, is that called now, your vision board and all that. And no, this was really the heyday of athletics and New Zealand, really. I mean, you had some, or in the 70s, at least, some other big names in the sport, did that help you — I don't think it's ever been repeated really, the levels that we sort of reached in those years?

Rod: No, no. know. It certainly is because there was Kevin Ross from Whanganui. He was 800, 1500. And then there's Dick Tyler, because he went on incredibly in 1974 at the Commonwealth Games, but Dick Quax, Tony Polhill, John Walker wasn't on the scene until about ‘73 right. So, but, here are these and I remember I went to Wanganui to run 1500. And just as a 21-year-old and I beat Tony Polhill who had won the British championships the year before. So we suddenly, I realised that —

Lisa: You’re world class.

Rod: First with these guys, I can — but of course, there were races where I would be right out the back door. And we would sit down with it now, was it tactics, or was it something we weren't doing in training, or was it something we overdid the train. And we just had to work that out. It was very, very feeling based.

Lisa: And very early in the knowledge like, now we have everything as really — I mean, even when I started doing ultramarathons we didn't know anything. Like I didn't even know what a bloody electrolyte tablet was. Or that you had to go to the gym at all. I just ran, and I ran slow and I ran long. And back then I mean, you did have some—I mean absolutely as approach what’s your take on that now like looking back and the knowledge we have now that sort of high mileage training stalls. What's your take on that?

Rod: Well, John realised, of course I am very much the hundred mile a week. John realised that and the terrain and I said, ‘I don't want to run on the right job. I just don't like that.’ He said, ‘Okay, so then, we’ll adapt that principle, because you like to run on the cross-country and mounds all around Nelson’. Yeah. And, and so we adapted, and I think I was best around the 80, 85 miles, with the conditioning. There would be some weeks, I would go to 100 because it was long and slow. And we would go out with the run to the other runners. And the talk test showed us how we were doing.

At 17, I was allowed to run them, Abel Tasman National Park. And of course, the track was quite challenging in those days, it wasn’t a walkway like it is now. And so you couldn't run fast. And that was the principle behind bringing us all over there to run long and slow. And just to get the timing rather than the miles.

Lisa: Keep it light then, the time is for us to use it.

Rod: So, he used to go more with time. And then after, we’d come to Nelson and he would give John time. And John would, of course, I would have to write everything down in my diary. And John would have the diaries there. And he would sit with Arthur and I would go through them. And afterwards, we would give a big check, and say that ‘I liked it. I like this, I liked it. I like to see you doing this’. And because we're still the basic principles of the period with the base as the foundation training, as you go towards your competitive peak, you're starting to narrow it down and do shorter, faster, or anaerobic work and with base track. And John, we just sit straight away, you don't improve when you train, you improve when you recover.

Lisa: Wow, wise.

Rod: Recovered and rest and recovery.

Lisa: Are you listening, athletes out there? You don't get better training alone. You need the rest and recovery, because that's still the hardest sell. That's still the hardest sell for athletes today, is to get them to prioritise the recovery, their sleep, their all of those sort of aspects over there. And like you already knew that back then.

Rod: And I said once again, just remember to learn by doing. So, unless you're going to record what you've learned today, you're not going to be able to refer to that. Sometimes John would say, ‘Ooh, I noticed today that you didn't do this and this. Bring your diary over.’ And on those days, of course, it was a blackboard and chalk. And he would write the titles at the top. And then from our diary, he would put under, he would take out, and he'd put under any of those headings. And then we'd stand back and said, ‘Now look at this. There's three on this one, nine on this one, two on this one, six on this one.’ We want to try and bring the lows up and the highs down. Let's get more consistency because this is your conditioning period. We don't need to have these spikes. We don't need to have this roller coaster. I want to keep it as steady as we can because it's a 8, 10-week foundation period. So those are the ways that we used to be. And John just simply said, he would say, when you wake up in the morning, take your heart rate. Take your pulse for 15 seconds, and write it down. And then he would say ‘Look, the work we did yesterday, and the day before, yesterday, I noticed that there's a bit of a spike in your recovery on Tuesday and Wednesday. So instead of coming to the track tonight, just go out for a long slow run’.

Lisa: Wow and this was before EPS and heart rate monitors, and God knows what we've got available to us now to track everything. So what an incredible person John must have been like, because he also gave up pretty much his potential, really to help you foster your potential because you obviously genetically had an extreme gift. That's a pretty big sacrifice really, isn’t?

Rod: He was incredible. And I just saw him yesterday, actually. And he used to live in the Marlborough Sounds. And of course, now that moved back to Nelson and so it's wonderful. I mean, I would always go down there and see him, and I used to love—well, I wouldn't run around — but I was biking around, all around the Marlborough Sounds, Kenepuru Sound. and I do four- or five-hour bike rides in the head. He says to me, ‘What was your big thing?’ And I said, ‘Well, I saw three cars today, John, for three hours’, and he said, ‘Oh, yes, and two of those were in the driveway’. It was amazing. I just loved down there, but now he's back here we see each other and talk and we go through our bike rides, and we go for a little jiggle, jog, as we call it now.

Lisa: And so he helped you hone and tailor all of this and give you that guidance so that you boost your really strong foundation. So what was it, your very first big thing that you did? Was it then, would you say that for the Olympics?

Rod: I think qualifying — no, not qualifying — but making the New Zealand cross-country team, The World Cross Country Team at 1971. I think that was the defining moment of what we were doing was, ‘Well, this is amazing.’ And so, as I said, 1971, I finished 10th in the world. And then then John said, ‘Well, what are you actually thinking for the Olympics? Are you thinking the steeplechase or the 5000 meters?’ And I said, ‘No, the 1500.’ ‘Why?’ And I said, ‘Oh, Jack Havelock, Peter Snell, John Davies’, and then, he said, ‘Good. You're committed, so let's do it’. Okay. Of course, once I have announced that, then, of course, I got all the — not criticism — but the suggestions from all the, ‘Well, I think Rod's a bit optimistic about the 1500. He hasn't even broken 1’50 for the 800 meters. He hasn't yet been broken 4 minutes for a mile. He wants to go to the Olympics. And I think he should be thinking, and John said, ‘Put the earmuffs on.’

Lisa: That is good advice. Don’t listen to the naysayers.

Rod: Off we go. And then slowly, but surely, I was able to get a lot of races against Dick Quax and Tony Powell, and Kevin Ross, in that. And then I remember, in Wellington at Lower Hutt, I was able to break the four-minute mile, then I got very close in a race to the Olympic Qualifying time. And then of course, you look at qualifications. And a lot of those runners didn't want, they already realised that they hadn't got anywhere near it. So they didn't turn out for the trials. So John gave up any idea of him going to the Olympics. And he said, ‘I'm coming to Auckland to pace you. And this time, you will stay right behind me. And when I move over and say go, go’. And so because we've done a couple of these earlier in the season, and ‘I said that I can sprint later.’ And of course, I missed out at the time, but this was it. And so, he said, ‘Our goal is for you to win the trials and to break the qualification’. And he made it happen. He said, he ran in one second of every lap to get me to 300 meters to go. When he moved over, and he said ‘Go!’ I got the fight of my life and took off.

Lisa: You wouldn't dare not, after that dedication order. And you qualified you got–

Rod: I won the trials and qualified. And Tony Polhill had qualified in his and he had won the national championship. So he qualified when the nationals and now I've qualified and won the trials. So, they actually, they took us both incredible. He was an A-grade athlete, I was a B-grade athlete. You got everything paid for, be in your head to train.

Lisa: Yes, I know that one. And so then you got to actually go to the Olympics. Now what was that experience like? Because a lot of people, not many people in the world actually get to go to an Olympics. What's it like? What's it like?

Rod: So we went to Scandinavia, and to Europe to do some pre-training. And on those days, we used to say, ‘Well, no, you got to acclimatised’. I mean, nowadays you can kind of go and run within a few days. But in my day, it was three to four weeks, you wanted to have —

Lisa: That's ideal to be honest.

Rod: Yeah, if they were right.

Lisa: Yeah. Get their time and like that whole jet lag shift and the changing of the time zones, and all of that sort of stuff takes a lot longer than people think to actually work out of the body. So yeah, okay, so now you're at the Olympics.

Rod: So here we were, so and John gave me a written for a track that schedule every day, and this was a training, and he had bounced with knowing that I was going to be flying from London to Denmark. And then, we're going to go to Sweden, and then we're going to go to Dosenbach. And so he expected in all the traveling, all the changes, and really a lot of it was I was able to go out there pretty well stayed with that. Now again, I realised that that wasn't going to work. And but what he had taught me, I was able to make an adjustment and use my feeling-based instinct, saying, ‘What would John say to this?’ John would say this because those all that journey, we'd have together, I learned very, very much to communicate with him. Any doubts, we would talk, we would sit down, and we would go over things. So, he had trained me for this very moment, to make decisions for myself. Incredible.

Lisa: Oh, he's amazing.

Rod: Absolutely.

Lisa: That’s incredible. I'm just sort of picturing someone doing all that, especially back then, when you didn't have all the professional team coaches running around you and massage therapists and whatever else that the guys have now, guys and girls.

Rod: It was the two days he knew that I would respond, it would take me four to five races before I started to hit my plateau. I found early in those days that — see, I was a strength trainer to get my speed. I came across a lot of athletes who had speed to get their strength. And so, what I wrote, I found that when I would go against the speed to street, they would come out of the gate, first race and boom, hit their time.

Lisa: Hit their peak.

Rod: Whereas, I would take three, four or five races to get my flow going. And then I would start to do my thing. My rhythm was here, and then all of a sudden, then I would start to climb my Everest. I've been new. And so John said, ‘These are the races that the athletic, the Olympic committee have given us. I want you to run 3000 meters on this race, I want you to run 800 meters if you can on this race. If you can't run 800, see if you can get 1000. I don't want you running at 1500 just yet. And so, then he would get me under, over. Under, and then by the time that three ball races, now it's time for you to run a couple of 1500s and a mile if you can. Then, I want you to go back to running a 3000 meters, or I want you to go back out and training’.

Lisa: Wow. Really specific. Like wow.

Rod: He was very unbelievable. Also to that at that time, I had these three amazing marathon runners, Dave McKenzie, our Boston Marathon winner, Jeff Foster, who is the absolute legend of our running, and a guy called Terry Maness. And John said to me, ‘Don't train with quacks and all those other guys. Run, do your runs with the marathon runners’. You see, and they would take me out for a long slow run. Whereas if you went out with the others, you get all this group of runners, then they’d all be racing each other.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t race when you're training

Rod: Your ego. With the pecking order, when you ran with the marathon runners, there was no pecking order.

Lisa: It's all about pacing and —

Rod: And of course, and I would eat with them too because I learned how to eat because they were better eaters than me. I would eat more carbohydrates and more organic foods because it was the long run. I learned to do that. It was interesting because Jack pointed out to me said, ‘Now you see those two guys that were at the track today. And they were doing, and you are quite overwhelmed because they are your competitors and they were doing this incredible workout’. And I said to them, I said, ‘Woop, that what I was up against’. And Jack said, ‘Put it behind you. I want you to come to the dining room with us tonight, and we'll try and see if we can sit with them or near them.’ And I’m sure enough, there they were over there and they were talking. And they were pushing their food all around their plate and they weren't eating much’. And Jack said, ‘Look at you, you've eaten everything, and you're going back for seconds and thirds. If they're not replacing their glycogen, they won’t be able to run very well in a couple of days because they're not eating right’. So that gave me the confidence. Oh, I'm eating better than them. So they may have trained better. And sure enough, you didn't see them at the track. And the coach had taken them off because they were obviously racing too hard, they were racing their and not recovering.

Lisa: Recovering. Yeah, so don't be intimidated. Because it's very easy, isn't it, when you start to doubt your own methods and your own strategies, and you haven’t done it right, and so-and-so's got it better than me, and they're more talented. And this is — all that negative self-talk, and you found a couple of guys to go, ‘Hang on, you've got this part better than they've got.’ What a great sort of mentoring thing for them to have done, to put you in that sort of good headspace. On the headspace thing, how did you deal with the doubts? Did you ever have lots of self-doubts? I mean, I know I certainly I did, where you don't feel good enough. Like you're what am I doing here? The old imposter syndrome type thing? Did that ever rear its head in your world? Or were you able to focus and...?

Rod: No, absolutely, Lisa. I mean, I would often, fortunately, I could go to John with any question. There is nothing, no stone left unturned. He was amazing. Because he sensed it too, by the way, that being that brother, playing and training. And he was very, very connected with me because he would train with me, and he would sense things. And he'd say to me, he said, ‘Oh, you’re a little bit down today, aren’t you?’ and he said, ‘What's happened?’ There are like bit of a bullying going on in school and this or that, or ‘That girl won't talk to me anymore, and I love her’ and that stuff.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

Rod: And so he was like Marian, my mother. She was very, very on to me, too. She would sit with me and talk with me. And her mother, my grandmother, amazing, amazing people. And I will say this, right now, when my mother was 95 years old, she asked me to come and sit with her on her birthday. And she held my hand. And she said, ‘You can call me Marian from now on’. And I said, ‘Wow, this is fantastic’. And that was my mother's gift to me because I've always called her mother. I never call her mum. No. Always ‘mother’. And that relationship with my mother was very, very powerful, and it came through in my running. And John would now and again have to kind of toughen me up a little bit — that was incredible balance. So I never had anything that I had, I took to bed with me, I never had anything that I would go out.

Lisa: Get it all out.

Rod: I would say, sometimes, if you're running through the Dan Mountain Retreat. And he said, ‘I know what you get yourself wound up’. He said, ‘Stop, take your shoes off, and hug a tree.’

Lisa: These guys is just so like, what astounds me is that your mom, your brother, these good mentors and coaches that you had were so advanced. And this is the stuff that we’re talking about now, like, I'm telling my athletes to take your shoes off and go and ground yourself every day. And go hug a tree and get out in the sunlight and get away from the screens and do all these basic sort of things. But back then there wasn't that, like, there wasn't all this knowledge that we have now, and they obviously innately just nurtured. It sounds like you had the perfect nurturing environment to become the best version of yourself.

Rod: Yes, I think so, Lisa. I was very, very, — and wonderfully, even in the club, in our running club, get this, our chairman of our running club was Harold Nelson, 1948 Olympian. Our club captain was Carrie Williams, five times Australasian cross-country champion. And they took time to run with us kids. They didn't all go out and race. The club captain and Harold would come down and talk with us kids and we would run. And then, I remember Carrie Williams, when he took us for a run. And he said, ‘Right’. He said, ‘Now there's a barbed wire fence in, there's a gate’. And he said, ‘We've got the flag there and the flag there’. He said, ‘You got a choice of going over the barbed wire fence or over the gate’. He said, ‘Come on, you boys, off you go’. And of course, 9 out of 10 went over the gate. And a friend of mine, Roger Seidman and I, we went over the barbed wire. And then he said, ‘Why did you do that?’ And I said, ‘Because it was shorter.’ And they turned to the others, and he said, ‘I like his thinking’. And he said, ‘You've got to have, to jump over a barbed wire fence, you've got to have 100%, you got to have 90% confidence and 10% ability.

Lisa: And a lot of commitment. That is a good analogy.

Rod: Things like that, all started to, there's this big, big jigsaw puzzle. And all those pieces started to make sense. And I can start to build that picture. And when I started to see the picture coming, I understood what they were telling me. And once again, learn by doing — or another word, another thing that John had above my bed was a sign, ‘Don't be influenced by habits’.

Lisa: Wow, that's a good piece of advice for life. I think I might stick that on my Instagram today, Rod Dixon says.

Rod: And, of course, wonderfully, all these I've carried on with my programme that I did with the LA marathon, and bringing people from the couch to the finish line now. And when I was going through, we're putting through, I started off with five or six hundred. But I got up to over 2000 people. And basically, it's the matter that I used for my kids’ programme is, ‘Finishing is winning. Slow and steady. The tortoise won the race.’

Lisa: Well, that's definitely been my bloody life history, that's for sure. Finishing is winning and the tortoise wins the race. Yeah, if you go long enough, and everyone else has sort of stopped somewhere, and you're still going. That was my sort of philosophy, if I just keep running longer than everybody else, and whatever. Let's go now, because I'm aware of time and everything, and there's just so much to unpack here. I want to talk about the New York City Marathon because it was pretty, I mean, so you did the Olympics. Let's finish that story first, because you got bronze medal at the 1500 at the Olympics. Now, what was that like a massive, life-changing thing to get an Olympic medal? You did it four times, the first time?

Rod: I mean, my goal, and I remember, I've still got a handwritten notes of John. And our goal was to get to the sideline at the first heat. And if you can qualify for the next thing, would we give you this, that, if you're there, this is what we've worked for. And of course, and I remember 1968 again, when I was listening to my transistor radio, to the 1500 meters with Keino and Ryun, Jim Ryun, the world record holder, Kip Keino, Commonwealth champion from Edinburgh in 1970. And here he was, this incredible race, and we were absolutely going in there, listening to it, and it was incredible. And to think they said that four years later, I'm on the start line, and beside me, is Kip Keino.

Lisa: Yeah, it'd be, it’s pretty amazing.

Rod: And then the next runner to come and stand beside me was Jim Ryun, the world record holder and here I am. And I'm thinking because I don't pick it out, when we got the heats, well you've got the world record holder, silver medallist, and you've got the Olympic gold medallist in my race, and only two go through to the next leap. So I'm going for it but I never, I wasn't overwhelmed by that because John has said to me, our goal is, and I wanted to please John by meeting our goal, at least get to the next round. Well, history has shown that Jim Ryun was tripped up and fell and I finished second behind Keino to go through to the next round. And then and then of course, I won my semi-final. So, I was in the final, and this was unbelievable, it’s no doubt is –

Lisa: It’s like you’re pinching yourself, ‘Is this real?’ All that finals and the Olympics. And you ended up third on that race, on the podium, with a needle around your neck on your first attempt in a distance where the people sent you, ‘Yeah, not really suited to this tribe’.

Rod: And what was amazing is that just after we know that we've got the middle and went back to the back, and after Lillian came in into the room to congratulated me and Bill Bailey. And they said, ‘You realise that you broke Peter Snell’s New Zealand record’. And I was almost like, ‘Oh my god, I didn't mean to do that’.

Lisa: Apologising for breaking the record. Oh, my goodness. I'm sure that's just epic. And then you went on to more Olympic glory. Tell us from...

Rod: So at that stage, we went back to… New Zealand team were invited to the Crystal Palace in London for what they called the International Athletes Meet. And it was a full house, 40,000 people, and I didn't want to run the 1500 — or they didn't actually have a 1500 — they had a 3000, or two mark, this right, we had a two-mark. And that's what I wanted to run, the two mark, and that was Steve Prefontaine, the American record holder, and he just finished fourth at the Olympics. And I went out and we had a great race — unbelievable race. I won it, setting a Commonwealth and New Zealand record. He set the American record. And that was just like, now, it was just beginning to think, wow, I can actually run further than 1500.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, you can. You certainly did.

Rod: So we got invited to go back to Europe at ‘73. And so we have the called, the Pacific Conference Games in ‘73, in Toronto. So, I asked the Athletic people, ‘Can I use my ticket to Toronto, and then on to London?’ Because I had to buy—may they allow me to use that ticket. And then Dick Quax and Tony Polhill said they were going to do the same. And then we had this young guy call me, John Walker. And he said, ‘I hear you guys are going to England. And could I come with you?’ And I said, ‘Yeah’, because he didn't go to the Olympics, but he ran some great races, we thought it was heavy. And he said, ‘Now do you get me the ticket?’ And I said, ‘No, you have to get the ticket’. And he said, ‘Oh, how do I do that?’ And I said, ‘If you, can't you afford it?’, and he said, ‘Not really’. I said, have you got a car? He said, ‘Yes’. I said, ‘Well, sell it’. And he said, ‘Really?’ So he did. And my reasoning is that, ‘John, if you run well enough, you'll get your tickets back again, which means you'll be able to buy your car back again.’ And that was John...

Lisa: Put your ass on the line and forward you’re on, because this all amateur sport, back in the day. And it was hard going, like to be a world-class athlete while trying to make a living and how did you manage all of that, like, financially? How the heck did you do it?

Rod: Well, before I left in ‘73, I worked full time, eight hours a day. I did a milk run at night. I worked in a menswear store on a Friday night. And then of course, fortunately, I was able to communicate with Pekka Vasala from Finland. And he said, ‘We can get you tickets. So the thing is, get as many tickets as you can, and then you can cash them in’. Right. But then, so you get the ticket, of course, there you wouldn't get the full face of the ticket because you were cashing it in. But if you got enough to get around. And you did get expenses, double AF and those rows you're able to get per diem, what they call per diem. Yep. But by the time you came back, you kind of hopefully, you equal, you weren't in debt.

Lisa: Yeah.

Rod: Well, then you go back and comment for the Sydney Olympics. Very good friend of mine allowed us to go do shooting and we would go out every weekend and then sell with venison. Yeah. And that was giving another $100 a weekend in, into the kitty.

Lisa: Into the kid. And this is what you do, like to set, I mean, I must admit like when I represented New Zealand, so I did 24-hour racing and it's a ripe old age of 42. Finally qualifying after eight years of steps. And I qualified as a B athlete, I did 193.4 in 24 hours and I had to get to 200. I didn't make the 200, but hey, I qualified. And then we didn't even get a singlet, we, and the annoying thing in my case was that we qualified for the World Champs but they wouldn't let us go to the World Champs. And I've been trying for this for eight years before I could actually qualified. And I was desperate to go to the World Champs and then just on the day that the entries had to be in at the World Champs athletics, New Zealand athletic said, ‘Yes, you can actually go’ and I'm like, ‘Well, where am I going to pull $10,000 out of my back pocket on the day of closing?’ So I didn't get to go to the World Champs, which was really disappointing. So I only got to go to the Commonwealth Champs in England and got to represent my country, at least. Because that had been my dream for since I was a little wee girl, watching you guys do your thing. And my dad had always been, ‘You have to represent your country in something, so get your act together’. And I failed on everything. And I failed and I failed, and failed. And I was a gymnast, as a kid, it took me till I was 42 years old to actually do that and we had to buy our own singlet, we'd design our own singlets, we didn't even get that. And that was disappointing. And this is way later, obviously, this is only what 2010, 9, somewhere, I can't remember the exact date. And so, so fight, like you're in a sport that has no money. So to be able to like, still has, to become a professional at it, I managed to do that for a number of years, because I got really good at marketing. And doing whatever needed to be done — making documentaries, doing whatever, to get to the races. So like, even though I was like a generation behind you guys, really, it's still the same for a lot of sports. It's a hard, rough road and you having to work full time and do all this planning. But a good life lessons, in a way, when you have to work really hard to get there. And then you don't take it for granted.

Now, I really want to talk about the New York City Marathon. Because there’s probably like, wow, how the heck did you have such a versatile career from running track and running these, short distances? It's super high speeds, to then be able to contemplate even doing a marathon distance. I mean, the opposite ends of the scale, really. How did that transition happen?

Rod: Yeah, I think from ‘73, ‘74, I realised that John Walker's and then Filbert Bayi and some of these guys were coming through from the 800,000 meters. And so I knew, at that stage, it was probably a good idea for me to be thinking of the 5000 meters. So that was my goal in 75 was to run three or four 5000 meters, but still keep my hand in the 1500. Because that was the speed that was required for 5000. You realise that when I moved to 5000, I was definitely the fastest miler amongst them, and that gave me a lot of confidence, but it didn't give me that security to think that they can't do it too.

So I kept running, the 800s, 1500s as much as I could, then up to 3000 meters, then up to five, then back to 3000, 1500 as much as I can. And that worked in ‘75. So then we knew that programme, I came back to John with that whole synopsis. And then we playing for ‘76 5000 meters at the Montreal Olympics. Pretty well, everything went well. I got viral pneumonia three weeks before the Olympics.

Lisa: Oh my gosh. Didn’t realise that.

Rod: Haven’t talked about this very much, it just took the edge off me.

Lisa: It takes longer than three weeks to get over pneumonia

Rod: And I was full of antibiotics, of course. It might have been four weeks but certainly I was coming right but not quite. Yeah. So the Olympics ‘76 was a disappointment. Yeah, finishing fourth. I think the listeners set behind the first.

Lisa: Pretty bloody good for somebody who had pneumonia previously.

Rod: Then I went back to Europe. And then from that point on, I didn't lose a race. And in fact, in ‘76, I won the British 1500 meters at Sebastian Coe and Mo Crafter, and Grand Cayman, and those guys. So, then I focused everything really on the next couple of years, I’m going to go back to cross-country. And I'm going to go back to the Olympics in 1980 in Moscow, this is going to be the goal. And as you know, Lisa, we, New Zealand joined the World Cup. And we were actually in Philadelphia, on our way to the Olympics, when Amelia Dyer came up to John Walker, and I said, ‘Isn’t it just disappointing, you're not going to the Olympics’. And I look at John and go...

Lisa: What the heck are you talking about?

Rod: No, and we don't? New Zealand joined the boycott. So at that stage, they said, ‘Look, we've still got Europe, we can still go on, we can still race’. And I said, ‘Well, I'm not going to Europe. I'm not going to go to Europe and run races against the people who are going to go to the Olympics. What? There's nothing in that for me’. And I said, ‘I heard there's a road race here in Philadelphia next weekend. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to go and run that road race. And then I'll probably go back to New Zealand’.

Well, I went out and I finished third in that road race against Bill Rogers, the four-time Boston, four-time New York Marathon winner, Gary Spinelli, who was one of the top runners and I thought, ‘Wow, I can do this’. And so, I called John, and we started to talk about it. And he said, ‘Well, you really don't have to do much different to what you've been doing. You've already got your base, you already understand that your training pyramid’. He says, ‘You've got to go back and do those periodisation… Maybe you still got to do your track, your anaerobic work.’ And he said, ‘And then just stepping up to 10,000 meters is not really that difficult for you’.

So, I started experimenting, and sure enough, that started to come. And in those days, of course, you could call every day and go through a separate jar. I had a fax machine, faxing through, and then slowly but surely, I started to get the confidence that I could run 15k. And then I would run a few 10 milers, and I was winning those. And then of course, then I would run a few races, which is also bit too much downhill for me, I'm not good on downhill. So I'll keep away from those steps to select. And then I started to select the races, which were ranked, very high-ranked, so A-grade races. And then I put in some B-grade races and some C. So, I bounced them all around so that I was not racing every weekend, and then I started to get a pattern going. And then of course, I was able to move up to, as I said, 10 mile. And I thought now I'm going to give this half marathon a go. So, I ran the half marathon, I got a good sense from that. And then, I think at the end of that first year, I came back rank number one, road racing. And so then I knew what to do for the next year. And then I worked with the Pepsi Cola company, and they used to have the Pepsi 10K races all around the country. And so I said, I’d like to run some of these for you, and do the PR media. And that took me away from the limelight races.

And so, I would go and do media and talk to the runners and run with the runners and then race and win that. And I got funding for that, I got paid for that because I was under contract. And so I was the unable to pick out the key races for the rest of the set. And then slowly but surely, in 82, when I ran the Philadelphia half marathon and set the world record — that's when I knew, when I finished, I said, ‘If I turn around, could you do that again?’ And I said, ‘Yes’. I didn't tell anybody because that would be a little bit too —

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Praising yourself.

Rod: So I just thought I'd make an honest assessment myself. And when I talked to John, he said, ‘How?’ and I said, ‘Yes, I couldn't’. And he said, ‘Well then, we’re going to look at that’.

Lisa: We got some work to do.

Rod: He said, ‘What we will do in 1982, you're going to come back and you're going to run the Pasta Marathon in Auckland, and that was going to be my trial. And Jack Foster was trying to be the first 50-year-old to break 2:20. So, I got alongside Jack and I said, ‘Now this is my first marathon. What do I do?’ And he said, ‘I see all these runners going out there and warming up and I don't want to run 29 miles...

Lisa: For the marathon? I need to do some extra miles warmup.

Rod: ‘Use the first mile as a warmup, just run with me’. I said, ‘That'll do me’. So, I went out and ran with Jack and then we time in, started down to Iraq, and we're going through Newmarket. And he said, ‘I think it's time for you to get up there with the leaders’. He said, ‘You're looking at people on the sidewalk. You're chatting away as if it's a Sunday run. You’re ready to go’. I said, ‘You're ready?’ and he said, ‘Yeah, go’. And so, alright, because this is Jack Foster.

Lisa: Can't leave him.

Rod: 1974 at 42 years old. Jack said, ‘You can climb Mount Everest,’ I would do it. Yeah. So, I got up with the leaders and join them and out to Mission Bay. And on my way back, and I was running with Kevin Ryun, he who is also one of our legends from runners. And Kevin, he said, ‘We're in a group of four or five’. And he said, he came out, he said, ‘Get your ass out of here’. I said, ‘What do you mean?’ He said, ‘You're running too easy. Make you break now.’ So I said, ‘Yes. Kevin’.

Lisa: Yes, Sir, I’m off.

Rod: So I ran one that and then that was when I talked with John, that was going to be the guidelines that maybe not another one this year, but certainly look at 83 as running a marathon at some point.

Lisa: How did you work the pacing? Like going from such a shorter distances and then you’re going into these super long distances, where you're pacing and you're fuelling and all that sort of thing comes into it. Was it a big mind shift for you? Like not just sprint out of the gate, like you would in, say, 1500, the strategies are so very different for anything like this.

Rod: Certainly, those memories of running with the marathon boys in 72. And I went back to Dave McKenzie and Jack Foster and talked to them about what it takes. And then, John, my brother, John was also too, very, very in tune with them, and he knew all the boys, and so we started to talk about how it would be. And he said, ‘So I want you to do, I want you to go back to doing those long Abel Tasman runs. I want you to do those long road aerobic runs, and just long and slow.’ And he said, ‘I don't want you going out there with your mates racing it. I want you to just lay that foundation again.’ And he said, ‘You’ve already done it’, he said, ‘It's just a natural progression for you’.

So it was just amazing, because it just felt comfortable. And at that time, I was living in Redding, Pennsylvania, and I would be running out or out through the Amish country and the farms and roads, they're just horse and cats.

Lisa: Awesome.

Rod: I had this fabulous forest, Nolde Forest, which is a state park. And I could run on there for three hours and just cross, but I wouldn't run the same trails. I mean, you'd run clockwise or anti-clockwise, so. And then, but I kept — I still kept that track mentality and still did my training aerobically but I didn't do it on the track. Fortunately, the spar side, they had a road that was always closed off only for emergencies. And it was about a three-mile road. And so, I asked if I could put a little pin markers with some tape, and I knew that there was 200, 400, 600, 800. And I would do my anaerobic work in this trail, not going to the track point. And then I would do the odd time trial at the track, but that was only maybe once a month, I would do any track work. And if I was doing it, if I did, wanted to do 2 by 1 mile, I do one mile, counterclock and one mile clockwise. And I could run within about 10 seconds either way.

Lisa: Wow. So, you really got your pacing down. And then, when did you set your sights on doing the New York Marathon?

Rod: It was interesting, Lisa, because in ‘82, I actually went to the World Cross Country. And I realised that I ran ‘71, ‘73, 1980. And I realised that if I was going to run marathons, I got to get back to my cross-country mentality.

So, I went to the World Cross Country in ‘82, in Rome. And I remember we always just sit around and Fred Lebow, the legend of New York City. Of course, he had heard about my marathon on in New Zealand, and he said, ‘It's time for you to run New York’. I said, ‘I don’t think so. I don't think so.’ Because Boston, London, and San Francisco all wanted me to run a marathon then. I wanted to go and have a look at the course. So Chris Brasher brought me into London. I had a look at the course, I quite liked the course in London. San Francisco was fascinating, because I love the hills, but I didn't like the downhill, so.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. It was a no-go there.

Rod: And Boston was too much downhill from Heartbreak. So really, I looked at New York, and I thought New York was going to be probably my best marathon course. I had to connect to it emotionally, physically, spiritually and mentally. So, it was ticking all those boxes for me. So, ‘82, at the World Cross Country, I said to Fred, ‘Look, Fred, I will commit to running New York. But it won't be this year, because we've got 40 more races this year. I will look at 1983, and if I run one, I'm pretty sure to be New York’. And he said, ‘Well, how do I put that all together?’ And I said, ‘Well, I'll tell you what, if I have a medal here at the World Cross Country, be it first, second or third, I will run the New York Marathon’. And I thought to myself, I'm just saying that. Wow. I mean, I'm out again to the finishing third. I was coming out into the finishing, there’s somebody standing right in the middle of the finishing, and I thought, ‘What the hell are you're doing there?’. And as I got closer, it was Fred.

Lisa: You're coming out.

Rod: And I said, it would be 1983, Fred. So, I made the commitment to him then. I said, ‘I will come to New York Marathon in ‘82 and watch, and get a feeling of what is it all about and course notes’. And that was when Gomez and Salazar had this unbelievable race and right down to the finish line. And I remember I went out, ran on the Central Park the next morning, Monday morning. And I came across the finish line and I stood there — and of course, it was so weird, but it’s like a visual warning.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, visual.

Rod: And I look up and I go, ‘This is me, I can see myself here’.

Lisa: You're visualising getting yourself ready.

Rod: And it was funny because I know Arnold, Arnold would say, when I said Arnold, and I stood there and I get, ‘I’ll be back’.

Lisa: I'll be back. And you were definitely back. So the following year, you spend this year preparing solely for New York?

Rod: Yes, I came back to New Zealand and, and I did a few, I think it was called the pastor series of races, we did a few road races. And that was about mainly to come back to New Zealand for summer training and preparation. And then when I went back, I said, by this stage I had my whole schedule, and this was the first time in my life, they said, that I actually had a programme designed for one race. And that was going to be, no, these races here in between were part of that journey.

Lisa: Build-up races.

Rod: Over a hundred races. And so, and John said, ‘If you're going to be serious about this, you've got to train. No distractions, you focus’. And what was incredible is when I committed to that first day, I felt, and I said, ‘Been hugely influenced by Sir Edmund Hillary in my life and set the Mount Everest —’

Lisa: Yeah, that’s your base camps.

Rod: Yeah. And so here I was now, for the first time my life, kind of like blinkers on.

Lisa: Tunnel vision. One thing. You gotta get up this mountain.

Rod: Going in and writing that diary every day. And it didn't become obsessive, but it became very, very much my goal orientation. And what was, I could see each month is that I was going up the mountain. I was climbing up. I wasn't having those fallbacks, and I just kept going and the blocks would building that improvement.

Lisa: Ugh, you must have incredible endurance, man. Yeah, and you've got a decade or more of actual base behind you now and experience at racing at this high level, and everything was sort of coming together.

Rod: It was. It was incredible. And the time trials. And I remember I said to my brother, John, I called my brother, ‘You've got a 3000 meter time trial for me here.’ But I said, ‘I wanted run the mile’. And he said, ‘What's your reasoning?’ And I said, ‘I don’t know, John. Everything is right. Everything is done. I've done it. I've got all the texts, everything, all the ducks in a row’. And he said, ‘So what's the draw?’ And I said, ‘I don’t know. It just goes back to ‘72, I guess. It goes back to the Magic of The Mile. It goes back to snow. It goes back to Bannister; it goes back to Lovelock’. I said, ‘It's all part of my journey’. And he said, ‘Good boy, go out and run that mile. So, I went to the biker High School track. I had my mate come with me. And I said, ‘I’ll warm up. And when I'm ready, I will let you know. And you click the watch. Don't get me splits. I'm just going to go out there and run feeling base’. Now, I said, ‘I’ll come back’. And I said, ‘Don't call out the time, I will come to you, and that's when you tell me the time’.

I went out there and I did everything as I would have done in the 70s. And I came, and I ran. And I felt just right. And I came across the line, and of course, I came over to him and I said — he said, ‘What do you think you ran?’ I said, ‘I ran very close to it 4’1, 4’2, I think. Maybe. Yeah’. And he said, How about 3’58.6? Well, I said, ‘That’s it. Nothing has to be done’.

Lisa: Sub 4 minute and you're preparing for a marathon. So that's just insane. So we're going to have to wrap up in a few minutes. So we're going to get to the actual bloody — the day of the race. And I was really reading one of your articles, and you were talking about you didn't go the elite athletes’ limos that they put on. You went in the public transport, what was all that about?

Rod: Well, all those years, with the runners, and very few of them I would go. What was this teaching? It’s only a race, it's not the end of life.

Lisa: It could have changed the side.

Rod: And I will bet, because I went to the Expo, and I saw the enthusiasm and I saw everything going on. And I just was fascinated by all these people. And I just did my first marathon, really international marathon, and I was fascinated. And Fred said, ‘Well, the limo will pick you up’. And I said. ‘No. I’m going out on the bus’. He said, ‘Oh. You can’t go on the bus’. I said, ‘I’m going’. And I did and I liked it, because there are coffee drinkers and bagel eaters.

Lisa: On the way to the marathon.

Rod: And I just listened to this and I laughed all the way out.

Lisa: And they had no idea who was sitting next to them, really. That's classic. So, did you do that to protect your mindset really? So you would not see the other guys? Or just because you wanted to be one of the crew and see?

Rod: I just thought, this is about me. It's not about anybody.

Lisa: Yeah, that's a good lesson for everything guys — just block out everybody else and do your thing. So now you're at the start line of the New York Marathon. How did the day go? We know the outcome, but spoiler alert.

Rod: They were there. Of course I actually set my time, my goal at 2009 laps.

Lisa: Yep. Same for me. I just can’t.

Rod: So I put my information down, I didn't have watches or anything. And so, I did my 5-mile split, my 10-mile split, my 13-mile split, my 18- mile split, and my 23-mile split. So those were my splits and that's what I kind of wanted to go through. And it was, once again, Lisa, don't be influenced by others. So, I went out there, running my race within a race. And I stayed with these splits, and it was amazing. The first five mile, I went through within two seconds.

Lisa: Wow. You had such a expertise now at this — yep.

Rod: 10 miles, I was two seconds, and of course, you look down and you look at the clock and you go, ‘Whoa’. So you getting a shot of adrenaline every time.

Lisa: You’re setting your mark. Yeah.

Rod: The leaders were ahead of me. But I had to blink it, I didn't care.

Lisa: You didn’t care.

Rod: Once again, don't be influenced by others. Run your own race.

Lisa: So such gold lessons you're sharing here.

Rod: And it is just amazing and that's how it just progressed. And of course, coming off the Verrazano Bridge onto the First Avenue, and the roar of the crowd was just incredible. I mean, every hair on my body stood out, it was so exciting. And so I could see the leaders out and I was slowly catching some of them. And then, of course, I knew where the leader was because of the lead car with the flashing lights. So, I couldn't quite see him, but I could see like where he was and people were calling out, ‘Oh, you’re two minutes behind’. I go, that's not two minutes. ‘Oh, you only 20 seconds behind’. So you can't be influenced by–

Lisa: No, don't listen to them.

Rod: Once again, back to my goals. And then I came, I remember about 20 miles, I came around with quite, and it was starting to rain now. And I was where I created three pair of shoes, a very slick shoe, an intermediate, and a fur wick leather shoe and I went for the intermediate. Given it was going to rain hard. What was happening is when it starts to rain in New York City, the oil is on the road.

Lisa: Very slick. Yeah.

Rod: Quite slick. And the white lines are even more, it was like ice. So, I had to be very careful where I was going. And of course, you'd see the road and you'll be running and you’ve a bit of a pothole and you go down. So I was very careful. And I came around one corner and I just slipped a little bit and felt my hamstring twinge. So, I had to slow down, short my stride, and wonderfully, I was able to just do some acupressure. And a couple of times, I didn't quite get it but I got one with just, you could feel the whole release. Oh my gosh.

Lisa: That was lucky. That doesn’t usually happen, you usually like struggling for, like, ‘Aw aw’.

Rod: And then, of course, at that point 20 to 23, that little, short roads, and of course, I’d come around a corner looking up and there's nothing there. So, out of sight out of mind, and then I'll come around another corner, and just see them and they'd go around the corner. And then once we got into Central Park, it was a bit more open and I could see him.

Lisa: You can see where he was. Were you at second place at this point?

Rod: Yes, I was now on the second. And now I'm not very good at math. I wasn’t good at math. At school, I got 23%, the teacher said he gave me 3% because I spelled my name right. What I do understand is that I'm getting the times and where he is in the miles, and I think I'm going to run out a distance here, I’m catching him at three seconds.

Lisa: So, he's 20 seconds in.

Rod: He's got to slow down. And I thought well, I can't really rely on him slowing down. So what else can I do? And I thought to myself, I've got to start running the shortest route. I've got to start running my tangents. And so the good thing is what I did see is that he was still — and in those days they had the blue line for the mountain — it was in the middle of the road. And he was —

Lisa: He was running the blue line.

Rod: So, I realise that I've got, in my mind, I have another 30, 40 corners. And if I could pick him up one- or two-seconds.

Lisa: One meters, two meters, yep.

Rod: This is the minute hand. Don’t try and go any faster, stay within your rhythm. Don't think anything more than just running the tangents and running and staying within your ability. And then slowly but surely another corner and I can see us catching. Slowly, and then there’s a bit of a rise up to Columbus Circle. And I noticed, he was in the middle of the road which is the apex of a high steep low. And I sat down low, and I kept my arms more short on my stride, leap more into it. I didn't look like a runner; I'd look like a mountaineer. And I got up into Columbus Circle and into the park, and here he was, he was only 100 yards ahead of me. And so, then I realised, I wonder if he is actually waiting for me to catch him before he speeds out.

So, I was kept and I realised he was still in the middle way and here's this nice turn, right turn. I went down through the apex and as soon as I got along his peripheral, I ran as hard as I could, so that he got the shock.

Lisa: He got a shock because you were like just suddenly and powerfully going past him.

Rod: Yes and he wasn’t looking around either, too. I mean, motor racing, they have side mirrors so they can see what's going on behind.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. You guys can’t.

Rod: Now again, I would always go around the corner and just glance back, I want to know what's going on. So he wasn't looking around, he wasn't really running the tangents. So, I realised that these are pluses for me, and it’s the game of plus and minus.

Lisa: And you're just like — like I love this mentality of like what can I do in the situation where I cannot go faster? What can I do to stay, because a lot of people would break at that point, like he's 100 meters ahead of me. I’ve only got the sun, not going to make it. And you've got that negative self-talk going on. You obviously you're like, ‘Ooh, what can I do here?’ So your brain obviously goes to where’s the around-the-obstacle solution here? What can I do? That's brilliant.

Rod: So, I learned all that in my road racing that I knew that sometimes you just can't run away from people but you can find out their vulnerable moment. And when they would come into a hill they would hesitate because they look up the hill and that's when you try and get five or six ahead of them, while they try to figure out. Then you do those things and then so, I would always, if I got 100 yards or 50 yards on a runner, I’d say, ‘Right. Now settle back down again. You got that quite easy. I did that and I spent 20% of my energy to get back, I’m going to make you spend 80% to get it back’. So, I've let them come back up to me and then I would go again and that would mentally —

Lisa: Bust them.

Rod: So, I was able to play with things.

Lisa: That’s gold.

Rod: And when I sometimes I’d be running and I would say, ‘Okay I’m going to run this. They’re expecting me to run this tangent but actually I’m not going to do that because that tangent takes you up a little bit of a hill. I'm going to go a little bit longer around here but it's not as steep so I can maintain the speed better rather than slowing down then speed up.’

Lisa: Wow, you’re the master at strategy, yay.

Rod: They would come with me and then I’d go back and they come with me. And I realised they’re doing exactly what I want them to do — they're running my race, you're not going to get my race.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you've got this all sussed for your particular set of talents and skills. And so coming down that last, but there were, you’ve got them in your sights now, what was that feeling like? Did you have that feeling ‘I’m going to do this. I've got this guy’ and did you break him as you went past him?

Rod: Well I think, I knew that everything I’d been thinking and doing and planning on running was, they got me to this point. Now I’ve got to kind of shock him or give him something that can affect. If you watch the tape, when I do go past, he threw his head back. Now, I didn't see that but I sensed he got a fright. And then of course, the next turn, it’s 150 meters, but I was running scared.

Lisa: Psychologically, you’ve broken someone.

Rod: Was he going to come back for me? I just had a lot slight glance, we did the right turn and I could see that, and I saw the finish line, I said, ‘He’s not going to get me between here and there’. And of course, I’m full of adrenaline, that this is amazing.

Lisa: You’re just over. Coming he's got that psychological brokenness of seeing you slide past where he's led the race the whole way. That’s harsh. That’s harsh.

Rod: I turned around, I looked at the finish line, I said, wow I’m the first person from Verrazano Bridge to here.

Lisa: Wow. Amazing.

Rod: So of course, across the line and I went down on my knee and of course, kissed it down. And I said, ‘I was here this time last year saying I'll be back’.

Lisa: Yeah. And here you are, you’ll be back. And did that change your life? Like to win New York's just pretty like, next level really.

Rod: To put the disappointment of ‘76 into perspective, the disappointment at the 1980 boycott, and I just, and I realised, and really, Marian, my mother, had said that sometimes things won't happen the way you want them sometimes. You're watching this, but your time will come at another point or another time. And I realised then what she was saying when I had won New York, that that was my defining moment, it just took longer than other people.

Lisa: Wow. That's a pretty big defining moment, not many people get to have a life like you've led, Rod. And I do feel like we probably need a bit of a second session because we haven't even gotten to the work that you've done, which is I really want to share about the kids marathon project and all the other stuff, the couch… What's the name of the couch programme that you had?

Rod: After the finish line? Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. That’s the one, yeah. And to share a little bit of that and the work that you've been doing since then because I think that would be an important topic in themselves. But we're going to have to wrap it up to that for today. I've got a mum out there that’s like banging around, giving me signs that I need to go and take her out. So, get her to her training.

So Rod, thank you so much for your time today for your insights, your wisdom, and sharing such an exciting ride. I think the listeners have been going up on the up and downs with you the whole way. And say hi to your amazing brother, John, I think what an incredible person to do all that with you. So, thanks very much, Rod.

Rod: Thank you for your inspiration to me too, by the way.

Lisa: I haven't done anything.

Rod: Yes, you have. I can feel it. I can sense it straight away.

Lisa: It's amazing. Very, very different athletes with very, very different skill sets and very different genetics. But we both love running and we both understand the power of running to change the world. And I think we can probably very much align on that.

Rod: Absolutely we do, Lisa. Thank you for your time and I've enjoyed every second. Every second.

Lisa: Thanks, Rod.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Even the most resilient and strongest individuals are not safe from the bone-deep exhaustion that cancer can bring. Treatment protocols will vary depending on a patient’s condition, but they may cause fatigue. While it takes an average of 17 years for medical research to reach clinical practice, it is beyond doubt that there are now better ways to treat cancer.

Did you know there is now emerging evidence that a ketogenic diet combined with standard cancer treatment may help patients? We often hear about the ketogenic diet from the fitness industry, but it’s more than just for managing weight, glucose and insulin levels. Research shows it can also starve cancer cells and eventually kill them off!

In this episode, Dr Dominic D’Agostino discusses how the ketogenic diet has evolved and how we can adopt a proper ratio for our lifestyle. He also shares the press-pulse control to manage cancer, which includes utilising ketosis, Vitamin C and oxygen. Don’t wait until you’re diagnosed with a disease to become more mindful of your lifestyle and nutrition! Prevention is key if you want to live healthier.

If you want to learn more about fighting cancer and several other diseases through the ketogenic diet, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how exogenous ketones and the ketogenic diet can help make your cells more resilient and even combat cancer! 2. Remember that we need to prioritise preventing diseases. Starting early is key. 3. Learn how cancer cells function and how to kill them without suffering from side effects common from drugs.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful third-party tested NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

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Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:40] Dr Dom’s Background * Dr Dom majored in nutrition science and biology, then studied neuroscience for his PhD. * Specifically, he studied the neural control of our physiology through electrophysiology. This includes respiratory and cardiovascular controls. * His research interests then led him to study diving physiology and hyperbaric technologies. * For over 15 years, Dr Dom has been developing hyperbaric technologies and nutritional and supplemental therapies to protect people from high hyperbaric conditions.

[06:14] How to Make Cells More Resilient * Dr Dom shares that electrophysiology in hyperbaric chambers can directly measure neurons in response to the graded levels of oxygen in the chamber. * Oxygen can provide a therapeutic effect, but too much of it can lead to a seizure (oxygen toxicity). * His research on measuring the cellular response on the level of mitochondria and plasma membrane led him to study how to control the metabolic states of the cell to make them more resilient to extreme environments. * Dr Dom worked with the NAVY Seal divers and focused on treatments such as lactate, glucose and ketones to enhance cell metabolic states and reduce seizures. * Ketones can not only make cells more resilient but also help maintain resting membrane potential and have less oxidative stress.

[12:07] How the Ketogenic Diet has Evolved * The ketogenic diet is celebrating its 100th year anniversary in clinical use. It started as a standard of care for drug-resistant epilepsy in children. * Anti-epileptic drugs have been found to delay learning development in kids, while the diet can enhance development. * The ketogenic diet has also evolved over the years. The modified Atkins diet, or MADD, utilises a 20–25% protein diet. * The quantity and type of fat are important when considering a ketogenic diet. Listen to the full episode to learn more! * Over the years, research on the ketogenic diet and its applications have surged. Now, Dom is working with the Navy to not only use ketones to block seizures, but to also enhance performance.

[18:56] What is the Ketogenic Diet for? * There are two primary uses for the ketogenic diet: life-saving and prevention. * If your intent is to manage seizure disorders, neurological disorders, cancers,and other disorders, you need to implement a ketogenic diet continuously. * Using the ketogenic diet for prevention can be for controlling glucose and insulin levels. * It’s better to prevent disorders and diseases by getting ahead of the problem. * For example, those who are pre-diabetic should start monitoring their glucose levels and learn how to eat better to avoid becoming diabetic.

[23:13] Prioritise Prevention * Diabetes can be the gateway to a host of other diseases. Prevention is key. * The ketogenic diet can be very effective in controlling your glucose and insulin levels. * When tracking your glucose levels, don’t focus on single time points. Instead, observe how the levels change over time. * Understand the dynamic of glucose in your body. You can correlate them with changes in inflammatory markers. * You can check whether you’re in ketosis through biomarkers that can be measured through breath, blood or urine ketones.

[27:26] How to Adopt the Ketogenic Diet to Your Lifestyle * The ketogenic diet is four parts fat and one part combination of protein and carbohydrates. * This means around 90% fat, 8 to 10% protein, and around 10 grams of fibrous carbohydrates. This is the recommended diet used for pediatric epilepsy. * You can also modify the diet if you find it too strict and difficult to follow. * Ketones have been found to be anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective, and have epigenetic effects.

[29:23] Managing Cancer Through the Ketogenic Diet * It’s not enough to cut down on sugar. Cancer cells are metabolically flexible and can use other sources like glutamine, fatty acids, and more. * Studies show that if you take away glucose from cancer cells and give them ketones, they will eventually die. * Cancer patients will experience the Warburg effect, where cells revert to a primitive form of energy metabolism by directing biomolecules to anabolic processes. * However, this also allows cancer cells to grow, divide and expand. * Treating cancer can be done by blocking DNA replication like chemotherapy or by energy restriction. While you cannot fast forever, you can achieve the fasting state through a ketogenic diet.

[38:33] Utilise Autophagy to Kill Cancer Cells * Cancer cells naturally have higher energy demand than healthy cells. * When you restrict energy, you can stimulate autophagy, slowing down tumour growth and eventually killing it. * There may be forms of cancer that can capitalise on autophagy, but this is not common.

[43:55] How to Use Vitamin C to Combat Cancer * Glucose monitors tend to also detect Vitamin C as blood sugar since they are very similar. * However, ascorbic acid can be antagonistic to glucose by using the same transporter. When you have high physiological levels of Vitamin C, you can impair glucose metabolism in cancer cells. * Vitamin C can also help create the Fenton Effect, where it further increases oxidative stress in tumours.

[49:42] How Much Oxygen Is Enough for Cancer Cells? * Cancer cells can die when exposed to a rise in oxygen. * Dr Dom shares that his study used a 2.5 atmosphere of oxygen given for 60 minutes three days a week. This was done using a soft-shell chamber. * Lower levels of oxygen can still be beneficial for cell production. * Dr Dom recommends taking Vitamin C on the same day as getting hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

[55:29] What to Remember When You Have Cancer * Nutrition should be the core of general health and cancer therapy. * Restrict sugar, optimize glycemic control and suppress insulin. Do intermittent fasting if you can. * If you’re overweight, be more aggressive with fasting and the ketogenic diet. If you’re underweight, make sure you have enough protein and nutrients. * Dr Dom recommends foods like eggs, sardines, raw vegetables like salads, olive oil, nuts and non-glycemic fibrous carbohydrates. * He also recommends taking exogenous ketones to further boost ketosis.

[1:02:53] Types of Exogenous Ketones * MCT is useful for fat and ketone. You can also use ketone salts which are bound to electrolytes like sodium, calcium, potassium and magnesium. * Racemic compounds optimise signalling and delivery pathways. * You don’t want spikes in your glucose and ketones. * Listen to the full episode to learn more!

[1:09:08] Dr Dom’s Recommendations * Dr Dom has always been interested in fitness. Not only is he interested in the science of nutrition, but he also applies it to himself. * Our bodies can withstand fasting. The more you do it, the easier it gets, and you’ll get more benefits. * Remember to take care of your body.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘Oxygen is a stimulant to the brain, and if we get too high, it can actually trigger a seizure.’

‘...some of the anti-epileptic drugs, if they are given to kids, they can cause developmental delays. Whereas if you administer a ketogenic diet, it actually enhances learning and memory.’

‘We believe that it's very important if you're pre-diabetic, to get different wearable technologies that will tell you and coach you how to eat so you don't become diabetic.’

‘Warburg hypothesized that the cells were producing, were fermenting because the mitochondria were damaged, and they were defaulting to a more primitive form of energy production.’

‘The ketogenic diet is mimicking fasting and I think that the suppression of the hormone insulin, the reduction in glucose availability, and the elevation of ketones are all contributing to the anti-cancer effect.’

‘...nutrition is really about the patient's health and they should not be advised to just eat anything to gain weight.’

‘I think it's important to push the limit as well. I mean, I was always interested in fitness, and working out, strength training has been a form of self-medication.’

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Track your blood glucose in real time with Levels Health. * Tripping Over the Truth: How the Metabolic Theory of Cancer is Overturning One of Medicine's Most Entrenched Paradigms by Travis Christofferson * Curable: How an Unlikely Group of Radical Innovators is Trying to Transform our Health Care System by Travis Christofferson * How to Starve Cancer by Jane McLelland * Want to learn more from Dr Dom? Check out Peter Attia’s podcast episodes with him: * + Episode 116 - AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part I of II: Ketogenic diet, exogenous ketones, and exercise + Episode 120 – AMA with Dom D’Agostino, PhD, Part II of II: Ketosis for cancer and chronic disease, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and the effect of ketosis on female health + Episode 5 - Dom D’Agostino, Ph.D.: ketosis, n=1, exogenous ketones, HBOT, seizures, and cancer * You can also check out other podcasts where Dr Dom was a guest here. * The 1-Week and 8-Month Effects of a Ketogenic Diet or Ketone Salt Supplementation on Multi-Organ Markers of Oxidative Stress and Mitochondrial Function in Rats * Press-pulse: a novel therapeutic strategy for the metabolic management of cancer * Ketone supplementation decreases tumor cell viability and prolongs survival of mice with metastatic cancer * Moffitt Cancer Center * Get your exogenous ketones from Audacious Nutrition * Keto Nutrition: Website | Youtube | Instagram | Facebook * Connect with Dr Dom: Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram

About Dr Dom Dr Dominic D’Agostino is currently an associate professor with tenure at the University of South Florida where he teaches in the Morsani College of Medicine and the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology. He focuses on topics such as neuropharmacology, medical biochemistry, physiology, neuroscience, and neuropharmacology. He is also a research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition (IHMC) where he researches optimization of safety, health, and resilience of astronauts and warfighters.

Over the last decade, Dr Dom and his lab have been focused on understanding the ketogenic diet and ketone supplementation for anticonvulsant and neuroprotective benefits. He was also a research investigator and crew member on NASA’s Extreme Environment Mission Operation (NEEMO 22) and has an interest in ways to enhance resilience in extreme environments.

Learn more about Dr Dom’s work on his website.

You can also connect with him on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We deal with a lot of stress every day. From balancing our responsibilities to merely reading the news, stress is an inevitable part of life. But contrary to popular belief, stress isn’t always the enemy. A healthy amount of stress allows us to grow more resilient to tougher conditions. Too much stress, however, can lead to the downfall of our well-being. Especially during these exceedingly stressful times, we need to manage our stress levels and build resilience.

In this episode, Paul Taylor joins us to share how we can better respond to stress and build resilience. He explains how too much stress can damage the body and the role of genetic predispositions in our health. Paul also gives us tips on training yourself to handle stress better. Finally, we talk about reframing negative self-talk and forming good habits.

If you want to learn more about how to build resilience and handle stress better, then tune in to this episode.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-ageing and Longevity Supplements

NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Train yourself to build resilience and handle stressful situations better. 2. Discover ways to deal with negative thoughts. 3. Learn Paul’s tips on creating good habits.

Resources * Pushing the Limits Episode 183 - Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranov‪a‬ * You can also watch Episode 183 on YouTube * Watch my interview with Dr Seranova on The Interplay Between Autophagy and NAD Biology. * Learn more about NMN supplements on NMN Bio. * Stopping Automatic Negative Thoughts

  • Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl

  • Connect with Paul: Website | LinkedIn

  • The MindBodyBrain Project with Paul Taylor
  • The Better You Program by Paul Taylor

Episode Highlights [05:13] About Paul’s PhD in Resilience * Paul is studying psychophysiological resilience. * Gratitude, empathy and mindfulness are necessary. But they are not sufficient factors in studying resilience. * Paul is looking at the interaction between resilience, mental well-being and burnout in military guys. * Paul is developing a new measure of resilience. It uses self-reports, cognitive batteries and biological measures.

[07:57] What Stress Does to Your Brain * Consistent exposure to stress changes the brain, both structurally and functionally. * These changes make people less able to control their emotional responses. * People suffering from anxiety, depression, PTSD or burnout were found to have significant maladaptive changes in their brains.

[17:38] Daily Stressors That Damage Us * Aside from life traumas, the smaller daily stressors can also be damaging for us. * Paul believes that modern life is characterised by input overload that puts us in a constant state of stress. * Our resilience and responsiveness to stress depend on factors such as genetics, social support and nutrition. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about how nature and nurture inform how stress is processed in the brain.

[22:40] Training Yourself to Build Resilience * The Goldilocks Effect proposes that for optimal performance, stress levels must be just right. * Specific training and repetition can help people arrive at an automated response regardless of their genetic predispositions. * Learning arousal control strategies can make you act effectively under pressure. These strategies are also used routinely in training military, police or firefighters. * Breathing is one easy arousal control strategy. Specifically, techniques like box breathing and resonant frequency breathing help manage stress. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about breathing techniques and the autonomic nervous system.

[29:49] Using Attention in Stress Response * Our attention tends to be internally focused if we’re anxious, depressed or stressed. * If you’re not in danger or no external threat, shifting your attention outward can help minimise your stress. You can shift your attention to your breathing or the things you can sense. * Paul says that we all have an ‘inner gremlin’. It’s a character that is responsible for negative self-talk, anger, anxiety and depression. * Instead of listening to it, you can shift your attention to the “inner sage” or the best version of yourself. This process of “self-distancing” has been found to reduce people’s emotional intensity. * Listen to the full episode to find out how to create a character based on these figures.

[35:58] Discharge, Recharge and Reframe * When you’re feeling overwhelmingly anxious, first find a way to discharge your stress hormones. * Paul finds that even 30 seconds of intense activity helps in discharging. * Then you recharge by focusing on your breathing. * Lastly, reframe your perception by thinking about what your best character would do.

[40:44] Dealing with Automatic Negative Thoughts * You are not your negative thoughts. You can choose not to listen to them. * In Japanese psychology, our automatic negative thoughts are stories we tell ourselves. What matters is what story we pay attention to. * The concept of Hebbian learning suggests that every time you’re repeating a thought, you’re strengthening it. * Interrupt your maladaptive and unhelpful thought patterns and create new healthier ones. * Watch your thoughts with curiosity and remember that you have a choice over the ones you can focus on.

[48:10] The Importance of Getting Outside Your Comfort Zone * The small circle-big-circle analogy is used to describe comfort zones. The small circle is your comfort zone and the big circle is where growth and adaptation happens. * Since the Industrial Revolution, humans have stopped adapting to their environment. * Paul thinks that learning how to be comfortable with being uncomfortable is key to growing stronger and building resilience. * However, you can’t go outside your comfort zone and push yourself too hard all the time. You also have to allow yourself to recover physically and mentally.

[53:05] On Recovery * Seeking comfort is done during recovery. * Recovery isn’t the same as relaxation. * Recovery is doing stuff that energizes you. * If you don’t take the time to recover, you’ll run the risk of burnout. * Balancing recovery, proper nutrition, good sleep hygiene and high-intensity training drives stress adaptation.

[1:01:52] How to Make Good Habits and Stick to Them * As humans, we are more driven by immediate rewards. Temporal discounting is what happens when our brains ignore rewards that are far off in the future. * Temporal discounting gets in the way of making good habits and achieving our goals. * In making good habits, it is important to understand your values and connect your behaviours to those. * Breaking big goals into smaller and more manageable goals makes it easier to follow through them. * Engaging in enabling behaviour also helps in priming your brain to make your habits.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘And so this is what happens when people get burnout or anxiety, depression, PTSD, is that there are adaptive changes that turn maladaptive. And it's basically because the brain is being overwhelmed with stress, either way too much stress in the case of trauma, or just complaints, daily bombardment with stress, and not enough recovery’.

‘So that resonant frequency breathing or box breathing can be really really useful and to deal with stuff in and of the moment. Just, it's basically autonomic nervous system control through breathing’.

‘So if we take a step back, people who have anxiety or depression or just have a busy mind, you know, they've got a lot of negative self talk going on, they want to get rid of it, right? But these three approaches, and I say, look, getting rid of it, it's not really the objective. It's really about where you focus your attention’.

‘I like to talk about shifting your attention to the concept of your inner sage, which is what the Stoic philosophers talked about, you know, that's the optimal version of you. And that's either my best self, me at my best or some sort of other character that I'm consulted’.

‘If you're sitting listening to this, think of your biggest achievement in your life, something that you are most proud of. And I guarantee you, for almost every listener, it will involve stress and being out of your comfort zone. But we need to hang with the tension long enough for adaptation to happen’.

‘You only get bigger, faster, stronger, because you hang with the tension long enough for adaptation to happen right’?

‘And I find that there are a lot of high achievers who are at risk of burnout because they're just on, on, on. And not enough serotonin focused stuff, just contentment, relaxation, connection with others time in nature, all of that sort of stuff’.

About Paul Paul Taylor is a former British Royal Navy Aircrew Officer. Paul is also a Neuroscientist, Exercise Physiologist and Nutritionist. He is currently completing a PhD in Applied Psychology. He is developing and testing resilience strategies with the Australian Defence Science Technology Group & The University of Tasmania.

In 2010 Paul created and co-hosted the Channel ONE HD TV series Body and Brain Overhaul. And in 2010 and 2015, he was voted Australian Fitness Industry presenter of the year.

Paul also has an extensive background in health and fitness. Additionally, he has experience in leadership, management and dealing in high-pressure situations. His former roles include Airborne Anti-submarine Warfare Officer and a Helicopter Search-And-Rescue Crew Member with the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm. He has also undergone rigorous Combat Survival and Resistance-to-Interrogation Training.

In 2012, he practised what he preaches about resilience training and became a professional boxer.

Want to know more about Paul’s work? Visit his website or follow him on Linkedin.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they can learn to build resilience.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. I’m your host, Lisa Tamati. Today I have the legend Paul Taylor. Now Paul is a former British Royal Navy air crew officer. He's also a neuroscientist and exercise physiologist and a nutritionist. And he's currently completing a PhD in Applied Psychology, where he's developing and testing resilience strategies with the Australian Defence Science Technology Group and the University of Tasmania. This guy is an overachiever. He's done a whole lot of stuff in his life.

In 2010, Paul created and co-hosted the Channel One TV series Body & Brain Overhaul. And in 2015, he was voted Australian Fitness Industry presenter of the year. This guy has been there, done that, and you're going to really enjoy the conversation today—all around resilience. He has so much knowledge, and he is with us all today. So I hope you really enjoy this episode with Paul Taylor.

Now before we head over and talk to Paul, I just want to remind you, if you're wanting to check out our epigenetics, what we do with our gene testing program that we have, where you look at your genes, understand your genes and how to optimise your genes, and how they are being influenced by the environment and how to optimise your environment, then please head over to my website, lisatamati.com. Hit the Work with Us button. Then you'll see peak epigenetics, peak epigenetics and click that button and find out all about it. Every second week, we have a live webinar where we actually take you through what it's all about, what's involved and how it all works. So if you want to find out about that, just reach out to me. You can reach me at any time and the support@lisatamati.com. If you've got questions around in the episodes, if you want to know a little bit more about any other guests, or you want to find out about anything that we do, please reach out to us there.

I also want to let you know about the new anti-ageing and longevity supplement NMN that I'm importing. I had a couple of episodes with Dr. Elena Seranova, who's a molecular biologist who shares all the information about this incredible supplement and how it upregulates the sirtuin genes in the body and helps create more NAD. Lots of big words but very incredible. The information in those episodes is really incredible. And if you want to try out this longevity and anti-ageing supplement, have more energy, it helps with cardiovascular health, there's even some evidence now starting to looking into fertility. It works on a very deep level in the body and helps upregulate the sirtuin genes which are longevity genes, helps with DNA repair mitochondrial biogenesis, lots of really good stuff. You probably didn't catch all those words, but go and listen to those episodes.

The product is called Nicotinamide Mononucleotide. It’s fully natural, there’s no downside to this. Very safe to take and will slow the ageing process. If you want to find out a little bit more head on over to nmnbio.nz, that's nmnbio.nz. Right, enough for today. I'm going to send you right now over to Paul Taylor who's sitting in south of Melbourne.

Lisa: Well, hi everybody, Lisa Tamati here at Pushing The Limits. Super excited to have you. I'm just jumping out of my skin for excitement because today I have the legendary, Paul Taylor with me. Paul, how are you doing?

Paul Taylor: Hi, I'm bloody awesome. How the devil are you?

Lisa: Very excited to meet you. Paul is sitting in south of Melbourne, he tells me, in Wine Country. Is that right?

Paul: That's correct. Like any self-respecting Irishman, I moved to where they make the wine.

Lisa: An Irishman who lives in Australia, who is ex-British Royal Navy e-crew, neuroscientist, nutritionist, exercise physiologist—a bit of an overachiever, Paul. Crikey, could you do a little bit more, please? You're not doing enough.

Paul: Well, I’m currently doing a PhD in Applied Psychology, just to sort of finish it—round it all out. And I need to keep myself out of mischief.

Lisa: Crikey. I feel very intimidated right now. But I am very excited to have you on the show. Because I have come across you from our mutual friend Craig Harper, he is awesome. And I've been listening to your lectures and your work and your learnings, and just going, ‘Wow, this guy puts everything into such a lovely way - with stories and good analogies’. And so, I wanted to share you with my world, over here with my audience. So today, I wanted to do a bit of a deep dive.

But before we get into it, so you are doing a PhD in resilience. So, can you elaborate a little bit on the PhD you’re doing?

Paul: Yeah, so what I'm looking at is psychophysiological resilience, because I'm just bloody sick to the back teeth, hearing that resilience is all about gratitude, empathy, and mindfulness. And that stuff, it's important. But as I say, it's necessary, but it's not sufficient. And there is a large component of resilience that has to be earned. And that's the sort of stuff that I realized from my time in the armed forces.So, the positive side stuck is important. But there is a lot more to it. And I actually wanted to explore it and do the research on it.

And I'm very lucky that one of my supervisors, Eugene, is the principal scientist at Defence Science Technology Group. So, they work a lot with the military. And I'm actually doing—I'm just finishing off my first study with the military. So, it's pretty cool for me, having left the British military 16 years ago. Now, I’m doing resilience interventions with the Australian military.

Lisa: Wow, I mean, it just sounds absolutely amazing. What sort of things are you—because I agree, like, the gratitude and all that very, very important—but it is, you can't just decide. Like, positive thinking, ‘I'm going to be positive thinking’. It's like a little bit more complicated than that. We need to look at things at a deeper level. What is it that your PhD is actually researching? So, what is the study that you've just done, for example?

Paul: Yeah, so the one that we're doing, we basically—it's a pilot study. So, what we call a proof of concept. So, taking a bunch of military guys, and they've gone through training, so I did a full day's workshop, 34 hours with the guys. And then they went on to my app, to be able to sort of track behaviours and log habits and interact with each other and put the tools to the test. And so they did—they've done a survey on mental well-being, another survey on resilience, and another survey on burnout. So I'm actually looking at the interaction between your resilience levels, your mental well-being and your burnout, or risk of burnout in the workplace.

And what I'm hoping to do in further research is to develop further the model or the measurement criteria of resilience. Because at the minute, in the literature, it's just measured through a questionnaire, and it's pretty poor, really.

Lisa: Wow, yeah. Very subjective.

Paul: Yes, it just gets very subjective. And it's also influenced by—if you're doing a resilient survey, it's influenced by who is actually going to see that right. So, if you're doing it for your employer, a lot of people will actually think, ‘Oh, I better not answer this in a certain way, because there may be ramifications’. So there are limitations with any self-reported questionnaire.

But more lately, there's been some biological measures of resilience that have come out of University of Newcastle, which I'm actually going to be working with that group.

So, they've actually lived in something called an acoustic startle response, which is basically you'd be sitting with your headphones on, doing some sort of task. And every now and then there'd be this light noise going off in your headphones, and you'd be all wired up. And they'd look at your heart rate, your blood pressure, your galvanic skin response. And you see there's a spike from your autonomic nervous system, right?

And what they have actually shown is that people who have higher levels of resilience on these self-reported questionnaires, they actually—they acclimatized or they adapt quite quickly to that noise, whereas those who have got lower resilience or who maybe have PTSD or anxiety or depression, they don't habituate to it. So, they're still getting that response, right. So, and this is about what is actually going on in the brain, and particularly an area called the amygdala, that I'm sure we'll get into.

So, I'm looking at a sit back and develop a triangulated measure of resilience. We're taking that maybe acoustic startle and some of the self-reports stuff, and then performance on a cognitive battery when you're under pressure, right? So, trying to then get a triangulated measure or a new measure of resilience. That’s a very long winded—yeah, so we can measure it a bit more objectively.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, because you're working with, like, in Special Forces, I think, in the military. So these are guys that are under immense pressure situations. And looking at our military and vets and stuff, and a lot of them come back with PTSD, and all sorts of mental health issues. And these guys that are coming into this are tough characters, these are not—and then they're coming out with problems. And even not in military, but just in things like my husband's a firefighter. The stuff that they get to see every day. Like he's a really strong, resilient, resourceful human being, but I'm seeing the load, the PTSD sort of load that's coming up over years and years and years are starting to have some bigger ramifications.

Do you see that people that are like super hardcore tough, amazing, but when they are going into these repeated situations and being because usually like exposure therapy is one of the things we do to lower our stress response. If you don't like spiders, and you have to hold a spider every five minutes, you're going to get used to holding a spider, and it no longer will cause a response. By the same token, are you seeing this going flip the other way? Where you're actually getting worse from exposure?

Paul: Yeah, so there's a lot of academic research in this area, looking at not just PTSD, but also burnout. So, for me, there's that, there's a continuum of workplace burnout is linked in a way to post traumatic stress disorder, right? It's just that the exposure isn't as extreme. There's not that trauma, but it's the insidious, consistent exposure to stress that actually changes the brain. It changes the brain both structurally and functionally.

So what I mean by that is what we're seeing in both PTSD and anxiety and depression, by the way, and workplace burnout, with the advent of brain scanners, they're able to take a bunch of people and follow them for a long period of time—six months, a year, two years. Ask them about their stress levels, and then look and see, does the brain change over time? And what they're actually seeing in that people who are suffering from burnout or anxiety or depression or PTSD, there are significant, as I said, structural and functional changes in the brain.

So what I mean by that from a structural perspective, the amygdala, the part of the brain, one of its job is to sense and respond to stress, and it actually becomes bigger. And so there's increased cells, increased connections and hypertrophy, it's just like your muscles with hypertrophy. And I'll come back to that in a second why this is, right. But in concert with that, areas of their prefrontal cortex, that rational planning judgment part of the brain, and also, another area called the anterior cingulate cortex—they're actually shrinking. There’s damage to those neurons and there's less activity in those areas.

And what this means functionally, is it means it's a less-connected brain. And it means it's a brain that is less able to control emotional responses. So basically, the amygdala is starting to hijack the brain. The neuroscientist, Antonio Damasio, he's the first to show in his lab that with that repeated— if your amygdala becomes sufficiently activated, it can actually secrete chemicals to block your frontal lobes. Basically, it says, ‘Talk to the hand. I’m in control of this brain’. Right now we all know that as losing our shit, right? Things are hijacked. But when this is happening repeatedly, what's happening is that there are neuroplastic changes in the brain. Right? And we know that this even happens in unborn children, in fetuses, that if they're exposed to chronic stress in the third trimester, the amygdala will grow bigger and more sensitive. And if we think about it, it's an amazing adaptive response. Because it's basically, they're getting inputs through the placenta and stress hormones. If we're adults, we're getting input saying, ‘This is a dangerous word’. Right?

Lisa: Got to be vigilant.

Paul: Yeah, the brain is all about survival first, right? It's all about survival. So, and sometimes that adaptive response is maladaptive. Right? In that there are changes that no longer serve us, right? And so this is what happens with people get burnout, or anxiety, depression, PTSD, is that there are adaptive changes that turn maladaptive. And it's basically because the brain is being overwhelmed with stress, either way too much stress, in the case of trauma, or just bombardment. Daily bombardment with stress, and not enough recovery. And I know as a lead athlete, you know about the balance between stress and recovery and just dealing with what you’ve got.

Lisa: Never got it right.

Paul: And then you don’t, right?

Lisa: Burnout was my best friend. Yeah, there's a huge—because I studied genetics, there’s a huge genetic component to this as well.

Paul: There is, yeah.

Lisa: When you're looking at how long your adrenal, your stress hormones, for example, stay in the body, your COMT gene, your—the RD2 gene, the RD2B gene. Once they actually get the adrenaline, is it going to stay here in the body very long? Or is it going to be out? And they call it like the warrior gene and the worrier.

Paul: Worrier and warrior. When I say it, people go, ‘What’s the difference’? I go...

Lisa: Warrior as in a Maori warrior, and the other one as in worrying, worrying yourself to death. And there’s a genetic predisposition. And then you couple that with environmental, being overwhelmed with either an event or a series of events, or like you say, the constant bombardment. Because there's a question in my head, like, you and I, there’s history, we've both been in some pretty freakin’ scary situations in life. And those are certain traumas that you've been through and you've carried. But then there is a daily shit that goes on.

Like something that I'm dealing with currently is like, I don't know, but the level of anxiety sometimes is like as high just because I feel like a computer with a million windows open. And it's got inputs coming up. And there's so many—you're trying not to drop the ball, and you're wearing so many hats on so many levels. So that's a different type of anxiety. And it's—and that one that like the big, major ones that you've been through, they sort of self-explanatory that you've got problems with those. But these little ones can be quite damaging too, daily on the mind.

Paul: Absolutely. And I like your analogy about having a million windows open. And that's really modern life, is it's just input overload for a lot of people. And it's, even we know that reading the news a lot, and the negativity particularly around COVID is just bad juju, right? Particularly if you are predisposed, or you have underlying anxiety. Then we've got kids, we got that juggle, we got kids and parents, right? And we got work stresses, we got money worries, we got relationship issues. These are all things that our ancestors didn't really have to deal with. Right? And our stress response system has evolved over the last 2 million years in our ancestors in response to certain challenges. Right, so three minutes of screaming terror on the African savanna when you're being chased by a lion—that's your fight or flight mechanism. And then longer term or really traumatic stress, but mostly longer term stress, like famine. And that's the HPA axis and cortisol.

And as you rightly said, different people are different. There's genetic predispositions to which one is dominant, how quick the clearing is. But there's also that, as you rightly say, and a lot of people don't understand this, is that the interaction between nature and nurture. That just because you have a certain variant of a gene, it predisposes you—it doesn't mean you're going to develop that, there needs to be that event. And then we know that those events, when they happen early in life, tend to have a bigger impact. Right?

Lisa: So children exposed to trauma are in much deeper in the shit than others

Paul: Can be. Unless they have the presence of a caring, supportive adult, often, they can get through it and end up being more resilient. Or they've got a certain variant of a gene, that when they're exposed to stress as a kid, they end up more resilient as an adult. So, it's a really complicated thing.

And the thing that I also talk about a lot of people don't, is it also depends on other environmental factors going on. Like what's your nutrition like? Like, what's your sleep like? What's your exercise like? All of those things are hugely, hugely important. It’s a really complicated story, as to whether someone and develop some psychopathology because of exposure to either trauma, or just that insidious day to day stress—what we call de-stress versus used stress, which I'm sure we'll get into.

Lisa: Yeah, now that's absolutely exciting because I mean, I preach a lot about doing the fundamentals right. Getting a sleep—at the basis of everything is good quality sleep. And that's not easy. It's not always an easy simple thing.

Paul: But check if you're under stress, right?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, because your brain won't bloody turn off. And studying the gamma and dopamine and adrenaline and norepinephrine and all these chemicals that are running out and they're actually controlling us to a large degree, or at least when we're unaware of their influence on the body. But there are things that we can actually do to actually help regulate our own physiology.

So I mean, guys and girls in the armies, in the military, have to do this. Or even like I watch my husband and my brother—they’re firefighters—when they're under an emergency situation, three o'clock in the morning, called to a bloody accident, someone's trapped in a burning car type of situation. Like, my husband's just so cool and calm and collected in that moment, like he's completely present. And in daily life, he's quite a shy, introverted dude, right. But when the shit hits the fan, I've seen his like, he doesn't put on a cabbage head. When I looked at his genetics, he doesn't have that predisposition to having adrenaline much. He doesn't have much of an adrenal response. So he'll come up for a minute, and then he'll be back down very quickly, and he’ll be able to control it. And he also understands, I've taught him more about breathing and all that sort of jazz to help regulate your cortisol and all of that sort of stuff. But it is a predisposition.

My predisposition, I have a hell of a lot of adrenaline, testosterone up the wazoo, dopamine. I tend to start really responding and taking action. But I have to actually turn on the prefrontal cortex. I have to really focus on that and not just fly around like a blue ass fly going just running into the burning building without thinking about what the hell I'm doing. So, two different responses—and both are very good responses in a way, if you can learn to manage them and control them and bring them on at the right time.

Paul: Yeah, and look, that's where the training element comes into, right? And so, irrespective of what your underlying genetics are, through military training or police or firefighters, they are trained in these situations routinely. And the brain sort of habituates to it and you learn strategies to be effective under that pressure, what we call arousal control strategies, right. So, whether that is—an arousal control can be both ways can be—for people who are generally low, can be getting them up to the right level of arousal. And for people who are a bit too overactive, bringing their arousal down, so they're in that peak performance zone.

Let's say the neuroscientist Amy Ornstein talked about Goldilocks and the Goldilocks effect of stress in the brain. That it can't be too little, because when you're bored or you're under arousal, your performance is just not going to be optimal. But also it can’t be too much. And everybody's got a level of arousal that is too much.

Lisa: Wow. That's a cool analogy. I like that, Goldilocks.

Paul: It's a wonderful analogy. And she's shown, looks at the neurotransmitters that are involved in that—and particularly looking at dopamine and noradrenaline, or norepinephrine, as some people call it, how they're really important in that regulation. But as I say, training, specific training and repetition, can really help people just to get into an automated response. And no matter what their genetic predisposition.

Lisa: So if someone is prone to a lot of anxiety, and maybe depression, what are some of the practical—like, if we start talking a few practical strategies now for people dealing with different issues — and let's start with anxiety and maybe depression—what are some of the things that they can do when their amygdala hijacks you? How do you get a grip on yourself and actually change the physiology? Because you feel some big noise happens, or an earthquake happens, or something and you've got that adrenaline just poured out and you’ve got all this stress cortisol and all that, how do you bring yourself down quickly, get yourself under control? So you don't end up in a panic attack, for example?

Paul: Yeah, so there's both short-term strategies and there's long term adaptive strategies, right? So, and I'll go into both of those things. First of all, it's important to understand what's going on, right? So this is about the autonomic nervous system. And there are—some of your listeners will be aware of this, but there's two branches of the autonomic nervous system. There's the sympathetic nervous system, and the parasympathetic. And the sympathetic is probably badly labelled because it's not very sympathetic, right? It's the one that increases stress, right?

So, and if we think about the response that's going on—so in the brain, the amygdala senses a threat, it sets off a general alarm. And then, the hypothalamus is involved in this, the sympathetic branches is fired up. And for some people, it fires up more than others. But for everybody, when that's fired up, and the vagus nerve is really quite important in this, that's the nerve that connects the brain to the heart, the lungs and all the visceral organs, right? So and the blood pressure goes up, heart rate goes up in order to pump blood to the muscles to give you the fight and runaway, right. And additionally, breathing gets faster and shallower. And then, we know your digestive system is affected and all the blood that is in your digestive system, digesting your food...

Lisa: Your peristalsis.

Paul: It’s shunted away. It’s shunted away to the working muscles, right, we know the immune system is temporarily switched off, the reproductive system’s temporarily switched off because there's no point in ovulating or creating sperm when you're being chased by a lion. It’s a waste of energy, right?

If we think for a second about the long-term consequences when people are in a chronic state of overarousal, even if that's just low baseline overarousal. So, I have a suppressed reproductive system. This is why people who are chronically stressed, and they become infertile. Right? Boom. And this is why they develop digestive system issues like irritable bowel syndrome and stuff like that, which we know can change your microbiome. And then there's a two-way interaction, which we'll talk about later. And the immune system becomes suppressed. That's why people develop—they get sick, and they take longer to recover, whether it's from a wound, whether it's from training load, or whether it's from any type of illness or injury. And then heart damage can happen, right, and with that chronic stress. So that's over activation of the sympathetic branch, and particularly the vagus nerve, right?

What we now know is it's only taken our scientists about 3,000 years to catch up with the knowledge of Yogi's, right? Yeah, exactly. Certain breathing patterns can affect your heart and your brain. And I used to think, all that breathing, I used to think it was fluffy bullshit. Until I get into the science—and Jesus, how wrong was I?

Lisa: Me, too. I must admit, and now I'm doing it 100 times a day.

Paul: Yeah, exactly. So, techniques like box breathing. I'm sure your listeners have probably heard you talk about it.

Lisa: Repeatedly.

Paul: Yeah, breathe in like the sides of a box. Breathe in for four or five seconds, hold for four or five, out for four or five, hold for four or five. And you can also do a modified box breathe, which is in for four, hold for four, out for six, hold for two. And I'll talk about that in a second. There's also something called resonant frequency breathing, which is also really, really beneficial and can actually enhance your what's called heart rate variability, which is a kind of a window into overall stress on the body.

So, reso-frequency being—you need some equipment to measure it effectively. But generally, everybody listening is probably between four and a half, five breaths and seven breaths a minute. And it's been shown that if you get within one of that, then you could. So I teach people, just generally six breaths a minute, right? So that's 10-second breath cycle, but breathe in for four and out for six. Because the longer breath out—when you breathe in, you are up regulating your sympathetic nervous branch, right? When you breathe out, you're activating the parasympathetic nervous branch. So, the long breath out is really, really key, which is why I talk about the modified box breathing as well. So that resonant frequency breathing, or box breathing can be really, really useful to deal with stuff in and of the moment. Just—it's basically autonomic nervous system controlled through breathing, that’s it.

Lisa: Control your physiology in seconds.

Paul: And the other thing that goes in concert with that, and my wife uses a lot of this, she's qualified in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy in Japanese psychology. And we're both fans of stoic philosophy. And it is about attention, and all three of these great agree that attention is key. So if we take a step back, people who have anxiety or depression, or just have a beasty mind, they've got a lot of negative self-talk going on, they want to get rid of it, right? But these three approaches, and as they say, look, getting rid of it, it's not really the objective. It's really about where you focus your attention.

So, if you think of your attention, like a light, and when you're in that stress response, your attention, and it is very internal focused, if you're anxious or depressed, or you're stressed about something that's on that particular thing. But it's an internal experience that you're having. So just shifting your attention outward. If you're not in danger, this is—you just have an anxiety, depression, whatever, just look for the colour blue. That's one thing. Just shine the light of your attention somewhere else.

Lisa: Like a naughty kid who’s having a tantrum. Just distract them.

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. And I call that part of the brain your inner gremlin, that’s responsible for anxiety, depression. And but also just negative self-talk and self-criticism, and anger — all of these things. And the key thing to understand is your gremlin’s like a chameleon, right? It can take many guises. But it's like, if you remember the movie Gremlins, when you feed Mogwai after midnight, it becomes energised and turns into the Gremlin. So, when you shine the light of your attention on the gremlin, it becomes energised. So this is where you just shift your attention either to where's the colour blue or what can I smell?

Lisa: Or breathing.

Paul: Or we like to—or your breathing—yeah, that's another great combination. And I like to talk about shifting your attention to the concept of your inner siege, which is what the Stoic philosophers talked about. That's the optimal version of you. And that's either my best self, me at my best, or some sort of other character that I'm consulting.

Lisa: Ah, yes, I heard you talk about this on Craig’s show. And I was like, that analogy that you use, like there was one with your son, Oscar. And him talk, having Derek, I think it was...

Paul: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, Derek. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa: So creating a character around these two polarizing figures. I’m always talking about the lion and the snake in my head. Or Wonder Woman in this chicken shit, who’s me. And we all have this positive, amazing self. And we have the self that's full of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and I can't do this, and angry, and negative, and cynical. And so it's creating a character. So tell that story a little bit.

Paul: Yeah. So the character thing is really, really powerful. And so I get people to—you've got to bring this character to life, right? So there's a little exercise, which I'll share with you. And you can share with your listeners where, so I call them your inner Gremlin and your inner siege, right? Or you can say whatever you want. So, what do they say first thing in the morning, right? You write that down. Generally your inner Gremlin is the one that says, ‘Press snooze’ or ‘Not another bloody day’, right? But then you go, what do they say when they're faced with a challenge? And then you write down their character strengths and particularly, you focus on your inner siege, what are the character strengths that you have when you're at your best?

And then I like to do a thing called plus ones. Like what are ones that you'd like to develop or have more of? And you write down. So, if it's calm under pressure or being more empathetic, I'm going to write down that my inner siege is calm under pressure, is more empathetic, right?

And then drawing the characters is a brilliant thing because it brings it to life. And Oscar when he drew the characters, he drew Derek and he drew Flash, who has now actually being replaced with Richie. A little side story. I actually bought a book called The Real McCaw from Richie McCaw because I am a big fan of the All Blacks, and particularly Richie McCaw. And I bought his book, and I was wanting to read it, and it friggin’, it disappeared, and I couldn't find where it was. And one night, I went down to Oscar’s room. He was supposed to be asleep, and he's there reading. And he's reading that book. He'd nicked it from me, and he had a highlighter. He's 10 years old, and he's highlighting stuff what Richie McCaw said, right. So now, his inner siege is called Richie, right?

But when he drew these original ones, he actually did a speech bubble for Derek and it said, ‘I will crush the good ones and I will be the king of Oscar’s head’. How cool is that?

Lisa: And he’s 5 or something.

Paul: No, he was seven at a time.

Lisa: 7. Oh my god. But I mean, the hard cold, maybe 6, actually. But sometimes kids are so insightful. Because that's what happens, right, is that when that negative character takes a hold of the negative self-talk, it does crush the good self-talk, kind of becomes the king of your head. If you choose to let it, right?

Paul: So my inner siege is called, Jeff. So when I'm struggling, or I need to get myself up, I just go ‘What would Jeff do right now’? Right? And so this is a process in psychology called self-distancing, where you're taking yourself out of the emotional state, and you consult a character or my best friend or whatever, and it actually shows it reduces the emotional intensity. And research shows that people make better choices. They're more courageous, and they make better choices, right. And so that's one, I think, really useful way to shine the light of your attention. So, the process that I use, depending on who's around, right, if someone's having a bit of an anxiety or just a bit of negative stuff, I like discharge, recharge, reframe. So think about it, it’s stress hormones, right? If somebody’s having an anxiety, get it out. You got to discharge those stress hormones. When you run away...

Lisa: Go for a run.

Paul: ...you come back to homeostasis, right. And I find, even 30 seconds of intense activity is enough. So, you discharge the stress hormones, then you recharge by your breathing, right. So you're doing that breathing and you're focusing on your breathing. And then, so your amygdala hijack is gone now. Use you're focusing on the breathing, and then you reframe and you go, ‘Okay, what would Jeff do right now’? Or ‘What would my character do right now’? Or, if I've written down all my character strengths, what action do I need to take right now to display those characteristics? Right? So the Japanese psychology, Morita Therapy, there's this beautiful term called, arugamama, right? It is what it is. And then they say, ‘What needs to be done’? And the stoics are very much like that — what do we need to do right now? So it's very action focused. Right? And so that is something that I think works for me well.

Lisa: Yeah. Because it sort of removes yourself so that you're looking—it's like looking down on yourself. Because this brain of ours is like a thought factory, it just keeps going and talking and chattering and go, go, go, go. And yeah, emotions take over, amygdala often is in control of our prefrontal cortex. And if we can separate ourselves and sort of hover over ourselves—and I've been looking into stuff like what happens after death because I just recently lost my dad and all those questions. ‘How do I connect to my dad on the other side’? All of that sort of jazz that nobody can bloody answer, really.

Paul: Yeah, if you get the answer, let me know.

Lisa: Yeah, I’m working on it. I'm really trying to get it out. But a lot of talking about the connection to the other side and opening up those channels, and to me, it's like, okay. So just from a brain point of view, if I just separate myself out from my brain, like, if you believe that we are a spiritual being and so our brain, our body, we're just walking around in this earthly body, but we have a higher self, if you like. So, it’s this higher self looking at that brain going, ‘Oh she's running that stupid program again that she learned when she was seven. It's no longer relevant here, I need to change the recording, and I need to change up’.

So it's just giving yourself a way of separating yourself from the actual emotions that your body is feeling, your physiology is feeling like now. And for me, a lot of it is, when I get anxious and stuff, I will just go and sprint for 50 metres. Like you say, it doesn't have to be long, it might be 2 minutes. It just comes back, reset myself. Sometimes if it's a really bad situation or whatever, I'll have a little cry that discharges more energy. And then I pick myself up and we'll get on with it, and we'll do a breathing, and we'll get back into gear. And just having those little tools in your toolbox can really help you manage the day-to-day crap that comes at us. And even in the big situations, the really traumatic ones, I've used those situations regularly—just remove myself for a minute from the situation, go and get my shit together. And then come back into the situation. And that can really help if you have the luxury of doing that.

So, I think these are really, really important because people often think, well, they look at someone like you and all your achievements and all stuff that you've done—or even in all the races that I've done. ‘No, never. I could never do that’. And that's your automatic negative thoughts coming in, your angst, as Dr. Daniel Amen talks about, they just pop up. And you need to realize that that isn't you, that's just your brain doing its thing. And you can choose not to believe that brain when it tells you you're not good enough, or you're not sexy enough, or you're not pretty enough, you're not strong enough, whatever the case may be. You can go, ‘No, I'm not listening to that’. And I'm diverting, and what you're saying, is divert your attention.

Paul: Yeah, absolutely. And those answers are automatic negative thoughts. In Morita Therapy, Japanese psychology, it's basically, it’s a story. It's a story that we tell ourselves, and there are a number of different stories. And it depends what story we pay attention to. And because when you pay attention to a particular story, when we think about what's happening in the brain, that self-concept, or that idea that ‘I'm not good enough’, is basically what we call a neural net in the brain, right? It's a bunch of neurons that are firing together for a concept or a thought or a particular line of thinking.

And the Scottish neuroscientist Donald Hebb showed in the 1950s, it's called Hebbian Learning. And it's a well-accepted way of the brain works, nerve cells that fire together, wire together. Right? So every time you're repeating that thought, or paying attention to it, you're strengthening it. And he showed that eventually, after a certain amount of repetitions—and we don't know the magic number—but that circuit becomes what's called long-term potentiation. This means that this circuit is primed for firing. And it means that then even neutral information is more likely to fire off that circuit, right? And every time you're paying attention to it, you're strengthening it.

So, the other approach is to go, ‘Thanks, Gremlin’, or ‘Thanks, brain. Thanks for that story that you're telling me. But it's not helpful right now’. Right. And that's where you focus on another story, or a particular affirmation that people might have. A different story, I've got this, whatever, it's another neural net. And every time you're focusing on it, and paying attention to it, you're strengthening it, right? So it's about interrupting the old and maladaptive, unhelpful thought patterns...

Lisa: That we all have.

Paul: ...and actually creating new ones. And every time you catch yourself—this is why the first part of all of this is about being the watcher. It's about being the watcher in your own brain. And for lots of people, this is a frigging revelation, that they can actually watch their thoughts, and do it with curiosity. And go, ‘Wow, there's an interesting negative thought. And that's an interesting negative’...

Lisa: Great example!

Paul: Yeah. And then be curious and go, ‘Well, what would a more positive thought actually be’? Right? So you can trick yourself into having these positive thoughts and every time you're doing it, you're laying down and strengthening those networks in the brain, right? So like anything, like you didn't become awesome at what you did by doing it once and then boom, that's it. It's about repetition, repetition, repetition.

So, really the first step is being the watcher, and then just repeatedly intervening, and going, ‘Actually, I have a choice’, right? And what's called in Acceptance Commitment Therapy, the choice point. And Viktor Frankl talked about it, the Jewish psychiatrist who was imprisoned in Auschwitz. And I read his book as a 17-year-old, had a pretty profound effect on me. He said, in between stimulus and response, is the space where we have the ability to choose. And he talked about the last of human freedoms, is your ability to choose how you react to your circumstances, whether they be external circumstances or circumstances in your head, we all have that ability to choose how we're reacting, right. And choosing what we actually focus on. And it's this light of attention, that I think is really, really powerful.

So when we wrap it all up in those characters, and then we're repeatedly doing it, and then people are waking up in the morning, and actually spending a few minutes saying, ‘Okay, who am I going to be today? What version of me is going to interact with the world’? And every time they observe negativity going, ‘Well, I say I've got a choice right now. What would Jeff do right now’? Right? Before they walk into their office, and just before you walk in the door, just think, ‘What do I need to do to express those characteristics of my best self’? And especially when you come home, particularly if you've had a shitty day, you just spend 10 or 15 seconds going, ‘Okay, there's a choice here and what version of me, do my partner, my little kids want to see walk into the room’? Right?

And it's just that little mental rehearsal, as you'll have done hundreds of thousands of times as an athlete and every world class athlete does this mental rehearsal because that shit works. Get your game face on.

Lisa: Get your game face. I have this analogy and I've told this story before on the podcast but when I was doing this race in the Himalayas and absolutely terrified, 222 K's of extreme altitude...

Paul: Jesus Christ!

Lisa: And I’m an asthmatic with a small set of lungs, who did mostly deserts for a particular reason. And I was absolutely packing myself, and I got my crew together like two days before and I said, ‘You have to protect me, my brain. You have to like tell me how amazing I am. Every time a negative thought comes up, I want you to sort of shout it down for me and protect me from everyone else’.

And on the day of the actual event, they did that and they really helped me get my shit under control because I was really losing it. Like I was just terrified I'd had a concussion in the build-up, I'd had to rip some ligaments, so I hadn't had a good build up. And it was the scariest thing I've done at the time. And I've done some other scary crazier shit but that was pretty up there.

And on race day, you wake up and you have that moment for a second where you go, ‘Oh shit. It’s that day’. That day you've been preparing for, for a year and a half, but it's that day and you've got to get up and face down 222Ks in the mountains in extreme temperature, extreme altitude, and no air and things. And I'm putting on my gear, and then that person changes. When I put on my running gear...

Paul: That’s your thing. Right.

Lisa: It’s my thing. That's my ritual.

Paul: That’s your siege.

Lisa: When I put on a number, there's a different person in front of you. And that person is a freaking warrior.

Paul: Machine, yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, in my head. I’m not, but I am in my head, in that moment, I am Wonder Woman. I'm Gal Gadot. I can do any freaking thing and I’m telling myself the story, I'm telling myself the story in order to create the chemicals in my body that I need just to get to the freaking start line and not run the other way because I'm terrified.

And then, once you start and you're in the battle, you're in the battle. You're in it. There's no way out but through. And then you have to bring in all the guns. Over the period of the next 53 hours, I had to bring out all of the stock, sort of things, to get through every crisis that came. And these voices in your head are pretty freaking loud after 50 something hours out there.

Paul: That they bloody well are, yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, but when you go—because one of the other analogies that I wanted to bring up that you talked so well about in one of the interviews was the small circle and the big circle. And the small circle is your comfort zone. That's you, that's the life that you're living when you're in your comfy world and you're not pushing outside the zone. And you’re staying safe because you're too frightened to jump out into the big circle is what you can be, and your potential.

But out there, in that big circle, it's freaking scary, it's hard work, it's terrifying, there’s risk of failure, there's all sorts of things. And everybody wants to be that big person that does these, lives this full life, that reaches their—none of us will reach our full potential, but we're reaching a heck of a lot of potential. And not living in the safe, little comfortable, ‘I'm scared’ world. And pushing yourself every single today to do shit that hurts, that’s hard, scares the crap out of you. And then coming back and recovering.

Paul: It’s critical, right? And I called that big circle, our scientists will refer to that as the zone of productive disequilibrium, right?

Lisa: Those are scientists’ words?

Paul: Yeah, exactly. So you're out of balance, you're out of whack. But it is where adaptation happens. And this is the problem. So we are by our very nature, we are comfort seekers, right. And just because all of our history has been of discomfort, and so it's pretty natural that we're comfort seekers. The problem is that we have an ancient genome in a modern world. Our genome hasn't changed in 45,000 years, right. And for the vast majority of our human history, we had lots of discomfort, life was uncomfortable, and we became the dominant species on Earth, largely because we adapted better to environmental stressors and pressures than other species right.

Now, what's happened in the last 100 years since the Industrial Revolution, particularly in the last 30 years, is that we have stopped adapting to our environment, and we've started changing it. And recently, we've changed our environment to such a level that we're no longer optimally matched to it genetically, right. So when we seek comfort, we get soft, we develop a soft underbelly. And this is what a lot of the positive psychology people do not talk about, is that getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.

And you can just do this, quite simply, if you're sitting listening to this, think of your biggest achievement in your life, something that you are most proud of. And I guarantee you, for almost every listener, it will involve stress and being out of your comfort zone. But we need to hang with the tension long enough for adaptation to happen. And lots of people spend most of their life in that little small circle, the comfort zone, and they dip their toe into the uncomfortable zone of productive disequilibrium. They go, ‘This is uncomfortable. I'm getting right out of here’. No good shit ever happened in your comfort zone. Right?

Lisa: It’s a quote from Paul Taylor, ‘No good shit ever happens in your comfort zone’. You gotta put that one on the wall.

Paul: It’s like past 2am. Right? That's the thing, no good shit happens there. So, it is about seeking discomfort. And one of my things, which you actually exemplify much better than me, but it’s that get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Right? Yeah, that's really key. And I think we have, as a generation, particularly in the West, we have got comfortable with being comfortable. And we are comfort seekers.

Lisa: Getting cosy all the time.

Paul: It's all, it's served up to us everywhere. And we're prompted to buy things and do things that make us comfortable. And it's natural to want to go there. But it's not self-serving.

Lisa: But our biology isn't, our epi genome isn't suited.

Paul: Absolutely not.

Lisa: Getting out of that thermoneutral zone, for example, like cold showers, cold water, hot. All of these things that are outside the neutral zone are where the change happens, from a physiological point of view. If I hop into a sauna, I'm going to create heat-shock proteins, I’m gonna sweat. That's going to cause all this cascade of events in my body that will make me stronger. The next time when I go to the gym and I work out with weights, then I'm going to be sore and I'm going to be breaking down the tissues. What happens is a cascade of events that makes me stronger for next week.

Paul: And here's the thing, right, that if somebody wants, if somebody goes one, if someone hasn’t been trained for ages and particularly, they’re bloke. And they go riding got to get back and then they go to a CrossFit class or F 45 hard core. And they go, ‘Jesus. That was ridiculous. I'm never doing that again’. But then you're not going to adapt, right? You only get bigger, faster, stronger, because you hang with the tension long enough for adaptation to happen right.

Now, seeking comfort, we should do that when we're in recovery, right? But a lot of people, and we should really define the difference between recovery and relaxation. Right? Recovery isn't sitting with your feet up with a bottle of wine watching Netflix, right? Recovery is stuff that is actually energising you, right? It’s doing the breathing stuff, it’s doing the meditation, doing the tai chi, the qi gong, those sorts of things, yoga. Or for some people, it's drawing, it's reading a book, it's connecting with others, it's gardening, it's spending time in nature. These are all things that really help us with that balance between stress and recovery. And when, if we get that right, the stress becomes used stress. And if we are just exposed to that too much or don't get the recovery, right, it's de stress. And then we can go into burnout/overtraining syndrome, which then when you look at the physiology between overtrained athletes and burnt out executives and depressed people, it’s almost identical.

Lisa: Yeah. And like, I've had to try to get my head around this because when you're an athlete—and I grew up in a household where being tough was cool. And physical toughness and mental toughness were what was valued and what was rewarded in my family. So therefore, I have this complete construct in my head that if you're not tough, and you're not hard ass all the time, then you're useless. And I had to deconstruct that a little bit because that lead me to burnout, that broke me, that lead to hell of a lot of pain in sickness and all sorts of things.

Now, as I'm hopefully older and wiser, I know that my body also has a full on and it has to have a full off. And that recovery is really important. And that recovery can be cuddling the cat, it can be going to the beach with my husband and just staring at the waves for half an hour to recover. It doesn't have to be something epic, and it can be something like the sauna or your hyperbaric over the air, or something like that, that's physically going to help me recover or mentally help me recover. And those are as important—and not feeling guilty for not being hard ass all of the time. Because a lot of my listeners are athletes and people that like to push hard all the time, type A personalities. And that can be, have the flip side, when you're just outside your comfort zone all the time you’re pushing too hard for too long without any recovery as well.

Paul: And you know, there’s some interesting emerging neuroscience in this area is that people who are like that, who are those type A personalities, who are very goal driven, they tend to be very dopamine driven. Whereas when you get that out of whack, that balance between dopamine and serotonin, and it's not good, and it leads to risk of burnout. So serotonin, to simplify things really, dopamine is all about achievement. It's about goal directed behaviour and motivation. So it's pushing you to do, do, achieve, achieve, in that context, right?

Lisa: Get that reward.

Paul: But then, there is this whole serotonin driven system, which is more about contentment, relaxation and connection, that sort of stuff. And I find that there are a lot of high achievers who are at risk of burnout because they're just on, on, on. And not enough serotonin focus stuff, but just contentment, relaxation, connection with others, time in nature, all of that sort of stuff.

Lisa: And that can be genetic, too.

Paul: Absolutely. There are genes that will influence where your brain is wired. And then there's upbringing as well, that goes into it. And so, it's really about trying to discover that balance. And that balance is different for different people. Right? That’s the thing, that we all need to find our own. But it's just—it is getting the understanding that proper active recovery is not about sitting, drinking wine watching Netflix, right? That's relaxation, there's a place for it.

Lisa: There's a place for that, too.

Paul: And I’m not saying you don't do it. But I'm saying, we need to think about recovery. We need to think particularly around sleep hygiene, you mentioned that earlier on, how crucial that is. You need to think about exercise. I mean, you mentioned heat shock proteins, which I'm in love with heat and cold shock proteins.

Lisa: Yeah. Me, too.

Paul: Because they—not only do they drive stress adaptation. But there is some evidence and I see, there's going to be a shitload more right? Because in the military, the British military, British Navy has been training soldiers for over a thousand years, right. And they have just noticed that the fittest individuals seem to be able to handle greater amounts of emotional and psychological stress. So, it's no surprise that special forces guys are the fittest, right? And their training is more brutal physically.

But there's only been a few studies, actually. I thought there'd be a ton, and I'm mostly focusing on this in my PhD. It is that, what's called the cross stressor hypothesis, that when you become, expose yourself to more high intensity exercise, and high intensity interval training, that sort of stuff, and also called exposure and heat exposure. And not only do you become resistant—stress resistant in those areas, but there is a spill over into other areas of your life, right? There's this adaptive response that crosses over stressors. And I'm a massive fan of that.

And again, it's something that the positive psychology guys don't get, is that cross stressor and drive

Lisa: Of energy.

Paul: Of actually yeah, yeah, yeah, of doing that. But then as I said, again, we need to balance that out with recovery. We need to make sure that our nutrition is actually supporting us, right. And a lot of athletes, they are on two...

Lisa: I have to get you back on for a whole episode on nutrition…

Paul: Yeah. There is an absolute chasm when you get into but because a lot of your guys are athletes. A lot of those guys are too carbohydrate focused and that, that shit’s bad for your health in the long run. You look at what's called Professor Tim Noakes, who wrote the Lore of Running. And he said, ‘I got it wrong’, he said, ‘You cannot outrun a bad diet’. Right? Yeah, too much of that carbohydrates.

Lisa: Why? I started running, so I can eat more. Apparently that doesn’t work.

Paul: Yeah. But you get into glycation end products from carbohydrate metabolism. And particularly for athletes who are ultra guys, you’re looking at becoming fat adapted. And there's Professor Grant Schofield, I'm sure you know over there. He's a mega mind, who's done a lot of research in this area. Have you had Grant on your podcast?

Lisa: No, no.

Paul: You need to get Grant Schofield on your podcast. He’s an ex-triathlon and Ironman guy, and he's a professor at Auckland University of Technology.

Lisa: Yeah, I know who he is. But I haven't had him on so. So, hook me up then.

Paul: The dude is brilliant. But yeah, what I'm getting at is that the approach to peak performance needs to be a more holistic one, where you really—you're looking at your sleep, your sleep hygiene, you're looking at exposing yourself to manageable amounts of stress, and then recovery. You're doing those used stress activities, you're also fuelling yourself, right. And then you're doing a lot around your mind, your mindset, around optimising your thought processes, building those, reframing negative events.

But then there's other stuff around connecting to others, understanding your values, your virtues and connecting your behaviours to those. And then there's a whole heap of science around creating habits because there's lots of people listening, going, ‘Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. I want to do all that’. And then they don't do shit, right?

Lisa: Everyone wants to be epic, and no one wants to do the hard work.

Paul: That's exactly right. But I mean, there's a lot of neuroscience behind that. To be epic, that's a long term response. And the brain—it’s just one more concept I want to introduce to your listeners is around temporal discounting, right? So the brain will discount and rewards and benefits that are far off in the future. Because we may not live, right?

Lisa: We want the immediate.

Paul: Yeah, when someone's sitting here going, ‘Yeah, I'm really motivated. I want to do all this, I want to become really fit and whatever’. And the brain is going, ‘Yes, yes, yes, I want that. But it's actually quite far away. It might be months or years away’. And then, they're presented later on with the glass of wine, the Krispy Kreme donut, and that's immediate. It's immediate, and we are driven around immediacy, and because that reward is right there, the brain will actually give extra value to it, and it will discount stuff in the future. So that is a reason why it's so hard. Then we know that if somebody becomes obese, because they're overeating, or somebody is a drug addict or an alcoholic or has taken drugs or alcohol—a lot of them. We know that that temporal discounting is actually accentuated in their brain, right? So they are less able to control at the moment and they discount stuff that's further in the future. So, it's even harder for those guys to make decisions, right?

And then there's a whole heap of habituation that goes on in the brain that we really don't have time to get into right now. But it's understanding this is complex, right? It's not just about the science, it's about how your brain actually works around that. So, I like to work with people around, let's identify your virtues and your values. And let's match the behaviours to those things, right? Because when you do that, you're much more likely to do it, and there’s a whole exercise.

Lisa: So, it’s looking at what's motivating you deeply.

Paul: It's yes, deeply the emotional connection. So not only that I do a lot of stuff on your why, Anthony Robbins said, ‘Find your why, you find your way’. But he stole it from Frederick Nietzsche, the German philosopher, who said, ‘He who has a why to live can bear almost any high’. Right? So I do a lot of stuff on finding your why. And it's got to be an emotional connection. But then it's about identifying what are your core virtues and your core values, and then matching that behaviour, right, to those values.

So, for instance, if somebody’s way of values is family, and they want to lose weight, I would be going, right, ‘Let's connect that with family’, right. How usefully you're going to be as a dad or as a mum to your kid, if you're dead or if you've got a heart attack, or if you have diabetes, and then you become a burden on your family? So, let's connect what you're doing on a daily basis to family. And let's get a way to remind you, when you're faced with that choice, this is about family, right?

So, there are a lot of things that people can do. Hopefully, there's a few little snippets there of how they can actually use neuroscience and psychology to help them to change those behaviours, or help them to get towards their goals.

Lisa: And understanding, like, the more I learn about the things, it takes away some of the guilt and shame that's associated. Because when we fail, ‘I'm going to do the diet, and I'm going to be good’. And then five minutes later, you bloody fall over and do something you shouldn't have done. And that's part of the human condition and understanding that it's very complex.

This is why I love having these conversations, because I learn obviously a ton from people like you, but it also just helps us have these conversations around removing the guilt and the shame associated with failing. Because if you understand that it's neurotransmitters at play, and then there's the way that you were conditioned, and there is a genetic component, the choices that you've made up to now, you may have made some bad choices, because of all this combination of things. It's not always 100% your fault, but that doesn't mean that it's not 100% your responsibility to do something about it from here on and then.

Paul: That’s exactly right. Also, people need to understand that people are motivated differently with goals, right? So you're very goal focused, I could tell, and big, hairy, audacious goals drive you right. And some of your listeners will be the same, particularly those who are more athletic, we know that they are driven by that. But for some people, and big goals are not good, right?

Particularly when you have people who need a lot of weight loss. If I had clients in the past who needed that, I'd say right, ‘What's your goal’? If they said it's 20 kilos, 30 kilos, and it's months away, I'd be like, ‘Right. Write that shit down somewhere. Forget about it’. Right? And what are you going to do in the next three months? Then what are you going to do in the next month? And then what are you going to do in the next week? Write your goals, right because for some people, that big goal, say somebody, Missus Narcan Furken, or Mr Narcan Furken wants to lose those 30 kilos, he's got it written on his mirror, all of that, he's got his why there. That 30 kilos every day is a reminder that he's a failure. Because it’s really far away.

Lisa: Because it’s too big.

Paul: It’s too far away. And his brain can't connect what he's doing on a daily basis. So, some people—and I like to get people to experiment with it, but I like to break those Goldstein, longest I'd like people to focus on if they're not a gun like nutter, like you, is three months. Then, what's your one month then? Then, what's your weekly weigh point?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I need that, to. When you enter big, hairy audacious goal, you do have to break it down. Like when I ran through New Zealand, I've told this analogy before but 2250 kilometres and I'm standing at the start line, bawling my eyes out going ‘Oh, God, dude. 2000 kilometres. What was I thinking’? And my mum just said to me, ‘Get to that first bloody power pole. That's your job right now’. For the first half an hour, stop looking at the hugeness of that and just break it down into what do I have to do right now, the next half an hour?

And I use it too, sometimes when you're making a little decisions, and you're trying to make that decision. Because people think often, and I know we need to wrap it up, but people think often that, ‘Oh, you're an athlete. You just love running and you're just totally into training and you're just fully motivated all the time’. I can tell you 90% of the time when I go training, I don't feel like training. But you learn to do it anyway. And you just take—I trick my brain into going on, I just put my gear on a bit of stretching, and, a bit of jumping around, see how it feels. And when I've done that little bit, it's like, well, you're here now your mouths will carry on.

Paul: Love it. So I call that an enabling behaviour. Right? So I'm a big fan of when you come home from work, put your exercise gear on, right? Lots of people come home from work. And when I do workshops, I say ‘Who comes up for work and puts their pyjamas on’. The amount of people that go, ‘Yes, that's me’. I'm like, ‘What is that shit priming your brain to do to sit on there hours on the couch with a glass of wine or a beer, right? When you come home, put your exercise gear on, right? Because it just primes you to be more active. You don't have to do anything else. Just put your exercise gear, but then, you're a shitload more likely to be more active, to do a workout, or just to move around more’, right? And it's like, you don't want to go for a run? Fine. All you got to do is you got to put your exercise gear on. You got to get to your letterbox and then you make your decision. And if it’s, no come back in.

Lisa: Yeah, and do it all fine. And sometimes, I do come back. Like, get up the morning, you say, ‘Well, I’ll go for a kilometre. And if I'm not feeling it, because I'm really not. And if I'm really not feeling it, then there's a reason that I'm not going to be there’. And then I'll go home. And I've learned to listen to my body and do that. And I mean, I just go into my running gear all day, every day. Because if you have a crazy busy life like me, it's like, ‘Oh, I've got 20 minutes, right’. And that's the other thing I wanted to say, you don't have to have a full hour for it to be a training session. Get 10 minutes here and 20 minutes there and 10 minutes there, that adds up. So doing those micro commitments sometimes is another way to trick yourself

Paul: Yeah, I'm a big fan of movement snacks. So right over in the corner, in my office is club bells. So I can just see the club bell, go up, pick them up, do some stuff and then boom. 30 seconds a minute right? People think you have to go to the gym to be active, horseshit!

Lisa: An hour and a half at the gym. If I spend an hour and a half at the gym, I would be absolutely knackered because I only need 20 to 30 minutes generally at the gym. Because I’m in there, plus my warm up—do your warm up properly, people—I can be exhausted in 10 minutes if I want…

Paul: Oh, absolutely. I say if you're in the gym more than 20 or 30 minutes, you're not working hard enough. Unless you're doing a strength training, component big heavy and you need that, then that’s good.

Lisa: That's different because I need to rest in between.

Paul: There’s always nuance, right?

Lisa: There’s nuance to that.

Hey, look, Paul, I'm very respectful of your time. I'm very grateful for your knowledge, it’s just insane, I could really love to have you back on the show at some stage if I may be so bold to ask again and to talk nutrition perhaps next time. So, this one's been all about resilience and how to get a control your biology, and it has been absolutely wonderful.

Where can people connect with you, get you as a speaker? You do a whole lot of stuff. How do people follow your work, your podcast, all that sort of good stuff?

Paul: Yeah. So, Mind Body Brain. Yeah, and people don't understand me when I say brain. So mindbodybrain.com.au. My podcast is The Mind Body Brain Project. And actually, I’m just releasing my first ever public course, with my wife, who's the Japanese psychology person and ACT. So we're doing a Better You program, you can find out more details on that. It's all online and webinars and stuff, deep dives into all of that stuff there. So I'm really excited about that. But that's really where you find out.

But I just want to say the reason why I have to go is that I'm actually going to see a PT for the first time, probably ever. And I'll tell you why. Because I need a hip replacement, and I'm shit at doing my rehab. And I realized I need accountability. So I actually find someone who lives quite close to me, who actually did my course because I used to certify personal trainers. And there's a bit of ego going, ‘You don't need to see a personal trainer, you know all this shit’. But I actually need the accountability.

Lisa: We all need coaches.

Paul: Yeah, for accountability, because then I do that shit. And I know, I'm going to go in and see that and she's going to go, ‘Have you done your rehab’? Right. So she's holding me accountable.

Lisa: You're using that little trick to do something that you don't really want to do, but you know you have to do. And that’s the little tricks, and what I like about that too, is that you don't have to beg an ego to go and actually learn from someone that you've taught. Everybody needs coaches. I have so many coaches. I feel like I'm being bossed around all the time. Like, because I want to learn from the best. I want to be pushed and challenged and stuff, and I love having mentors and people that keep me in line where I need to be in line. And each of us needs that.

Paul: Absolutely. And the ego gets in the way and you know what? I've learned stuff from someone that did my course, which is really cool. Don’t let that bloody ego get in the way.

Lisa: No. Paul Taylor, you've been absolute legend today. Thank you so much. I can't wait to have you back on again.

Paul: And I can't wait to get you on my podcast and explore things a little bit. So, looking forward to it.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We often associate illnesses and pains with old age. But our guest today reveals that the real cause of health problems is how you’ve lived your life. Accumulated amounts of stress can change our bodies down to the cellular level. Luckily, scientific discoveries such as peptide therapy can help our cells function better. Age is not the issue. If you take care of yourself, being older can mean being at the peak of your performance.

In this episode, Dr William Seeds joins us to discuss how our cells function and how epigenetic influences can harm our bodies. He shares how peptides and peptide therapy play a crucial role in keeping ourselves healthy and treating injuries and illnesses! As we age, our bodies slowly lose their ability to perform specific functions, including growth hormone production. But with the right intervention, including peptide therapy, a 100-year-old can produce just as many growth hormones as someone a quarter their age!

If you want to learn more about peptide therapy and how to age gracefully, then this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand that taking care of our cells and helping them function properly is essential to living a healthier life. 2. Discover why diseases are not a function of age but how we have experienced life and accumulated negative influences on our cells. 3. Learn the importance of growth hormones and how peptides and peptide therapy can help with the neuroplasticity of our brains.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Peptide Protocols: Volume One by William Seeds * Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach by Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw * Pearson Chemistry by Drew Chan, Richard Hecker, Bob Hogendoorn, Kathryn Hiller, Louise Lennard, Mick Moylan, Pat O’Shea, Maria Porter, Patrick Sanders, Paul Waldron, Jim Sturgiss * Boulder Longevity Institute * Want to learn more from Dr William Seeds? Listen to his podcast, Sex, Drugs, and Epigenome. * Connect with Dr William Seeds: Website | Youtube | LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

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Health Optimisation and Life Coaching Are you struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world? Then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

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Episode Highlights [05:29] William’s Background and His Father’s Death * William used to train with his father when he was a young athlete. * Unfortunately, he lost his father on the track right before his eyes. He could not do anything to save him. * His life changed drastically afterwards. As the eldest sibling, he had to take charge. * William questioned how someone could seem like they're in the best of health but die so early. This thought led him to learn more about biochemistry and molecular biology. * In the full episode, he shares the one book that jump-started his interest in biology and chemistry.

[09:15] Shifting from Business to Medical School * William shares that he was a business major, but he spent most of his college days researching and reading more about biochemistry. * He became so good that he started helping people with their biology classes. * When he graduated from business school, he knew that his path was in medicine. Along the way, he faced people telling him that he couldn't do it. * However, he found a way to enter medical school by taking accelerated classes during the summer. These classes let him qualify for the entrance exam. * People’s advice, even disbelief, can help us achieve the impossible. Listen to the full episode to learn more about William’s shift and how he even got early admission!

[16:59] The Value of Constant Learning * When William went into medical school, there were many things that didn't make sense to him. So he used to argue and get in trouble. * He observed that the cell is more important than we give it credit for. While it's good to know its components, it's more important to understand how we can use it to treat illnesses. * His work on nutrition and the cell built his orthopedic career and research on peptides. Eventually, he taught others about the application of peptides in their practices. * Learning is not about being smart; it’s about constantly working hard to gain and build knowledge. * You have the power to explore what interests you and build expert-level knowledge based on the research you can find online.

[25:32] What Are Peptides? * Peptides are signalling agents that help maintain cellular health. * There are many different names of peptides, depending on how and where they are made. They can be called hormones, enzymes, or more. * Some of the most significant scientific discoveries started with the study of peptides. For example, insulin is one of the major peptides discovered back in the 1920s. * Peptides may seem complicated, but you can make people understand them. * William encourages everyone to learn more about it to make better decisions for their health, but it is the job of empowered people to educate people.

[34:20] Peptide Therapy and Epigenetics * Our genetics are unchangeable, but epigenetic influences can change how our cells transcribe and translate our gene's instructions. * Epigenetic influences include things that affect us every day, like stress, aging, disease, and more. * The work that William does, including peptide therapy, is all about epigenetics. * Cells have their own intelligence. We just need to give them the ability to correct themselves. * For instance, we need to maintain cellular redox — the thermodynamics of the cell.

[37:02] What Happens When a Cell is Not Performing Well * When epigenetic influences harm the cells’ performance, they become senescent cells. * Our bodies are programmed to kill these unhealthy cells, but this doesn’t happen all the time. * Senescent cells are the key to aging and diseases. * When these cells establish themselves in the body, it is hard to get rid of them, especially since they can build up over time.

[41:48] Aging and Growth Hormones * As we age, the brain loses the capacity to release the same amount of growth hormone, which is the master regulator of our body. * By the age of 30, we experience a slow decline in how much growth hormone we can produce, which decreases even more with age. * However, you will never lose the capacity to create growth hormones. * What dictates this production are the events in your life that affect your body and whether you have a buildup of senescent cells. * Peptides and peptide therapy can help you regain the ability to release endogenous growth hormones based on your body’s demand.

[44:29] How to Increase Growth Hormones * There are over 100 types of growth hormones. Each one is released based on the body’s demand. * Cells can recognise if synthetic growth hormones do not match the demand, and this can be harmful. * One way we naturally release growth hormones is during sleep.

[48:22] The Value of Growth Hormones * Peptides can help not only with improving the increase of growth hormones but also with neuroplasticity. * Certain peptides have specific uses. For example, Ipamorelin allows the secretion of growth hormone within 20 minutes of usage. This is typically used before sleeping and upon waking. * Brain injuries tend to shut down more growth hormones. This goes to show how improving brain function involves many levels. * Senescent cells suppress the stem cells' ability to perform repairs and can convert stem cells to senescent stem cells. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about growth hormone pathways and how they improve function!

[53:07] Age is Not the Issue * Even if neural pathways have been damaged, the brain can build new ones. * Age is not an issue; older people can still produce new neural pathways. * There are a lot of aspects needed to create these pathways. It involves timing, planning, building momentum, and supplements. * The gut plays an important role in recovering from brain injuries since it makes a lot of neurotransmitters. * You also need to look at the cell membrane because you can lose certain phospholipids vital to conduction in axons and how neurons work.

[56:49] There is Hope * William’s goal is to help people have enough knowledge to know that they can prevent themselves from things like a traumatic brain injury. * Certain diseases take time to incubate, so you won’t even know you’re in its path until it’s too late. * We must take advantage of the knowledge that we can improve our cell’s functions: we can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep it that way. * We should aim to live our lives to the fullest capacity, no matter our age. * William shares that even though he is already in his 60s, his capacity is at its peak.

7 Powerful Quotes [29:25] ‘If anybody tells you something is too complicated, you have to have a PhD to understand that, right away, you should call bullshit because it means [they] just can’t teach well.’

[29:48] 'We all have the same capability of understanding. So our job is to educate people of what they have out there and not to keep them thinking they can't learn this.'

[44:58] ‘The cell knows what to make when the body has the demand.’

[50:21] ‘Growth hormone has some tremendous downstream effects that are effective in so many ways, in helping people regain the ability to improve cellular metabolism in the brain.’

[57:32] ‘We can change a cell to be more protective, more efficient, and keep that cell.’

[57:41] ‘We’re not looking to live at 150 years of age… We’re looking to live every day of our lives at our fullest capacity.’

[58:13] ‘There is just so much that people deserve to know that they can be doing it, that they can change their lives no matter what state they’re in.’

About Dr William Seeds Dr William Seeds is a board-certified orthopedic surgeon. For over 25 years, he has been a leading physician specialising in all aspects of sports medicine and total joint treatments. Dr Seeds is also the world's leading authority on peptide therapy, with training in advanced metabolic and nutritional medicine.

In his constant pursuit of medical research, he has published several research papers. Among his works is the first handbook on peptides written for practitioners, Peptide Protocols Volume One. He is the founder and president of the Seeds Scientific Research and Performance (SSRP), the training institute on cellular medicine and peptide therapy for medical practitioners.

Dr Seeds is also the Chief of Surgery and Orthopedic Residency Site Director for University Hospital, Conneaut and Geneva, Ohio. He has also been honoured at the NFL Hall of Fame for his medical services as a Professional Medical Consultant for the MLB, NHL, NBA, and NBC’s Dancing with the Stars.

Interested in Dr Seed’s work? Check out his website.

You can also reach him on Youtube, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about peptide therapy and how cells play a critical role in our lives.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

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Our hormones affect almost every aspect of your body. Mood, metabolism and many physical processes are all governed by hormones. However, you might not recognise just how unique you are genetically. Our genetic profile and predisposition to certain hormones impact our daily lives more than we think it does. Learning more about ourselves can drastically improve our quality of life and allow us to make informed and empowered decisions.

Dr Mansoor Mohammed joins us in this episode to explain the importance of understanding our genetic predisposition and the hormone cascade. He also talks about women's hormones. Finally, he explains why we should take our genetic profile into account before experimenting with pharmaceutical treatments and different types of therapy.

If you want to know more about the science behind your genetics and hormones, this episode is for you.

Hormone Report with The DNA Company If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.

The Report can be purchased here: https://www.mydnacompany.com/products/lisa-tamati-and-the-dna-company-female-male-hormone-profile Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.

For any questions, please email lisa@lisatamati.com.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand why it is essential to learn about the nuances of the menstrual cycle. 2. Discover your individuality as a person going through hormonal cascades. 3. Learn more about the effect of estrogen and why being on the pill fundamentally changes you up to the cellular level.

Resources * Your DNA Company Female Hormone Profile Report * In the FLO by Alisa Vitti * The DNA Company * The DNA Company on Facebook

Episode Highlights [06:47] The Journey Going Through Hormones * Menarche is the first menstrual cycle, which is when a female enters young womanhood. After menarche comes pre-menopause, perimenopause and then post-menopause. * Our sex hormones are fundamental at a holistic, physiological and phenotypic level, as they affect functions at the cellular level. * Hormones have a circadian nature, which affects metabolism, oxidative stress and other physiological processes. * Some of the top female athletes in the world are still unaware of their menstrual cycles’ health and how it affects them. * The phases of the menstrual cycle and variety of hormones affect ligament flexibility, likelihood of injury and exercise response, among others.

[12:45] The Circadian Rhythm of Hormones * The nuances of your hormonal circadian rhythm rely heavily upon your genetic predisposition. * Women have different mental, emotional and physical responses, depending on where they are in their cycle. * We should focus on the individuality of women when it comes to the genetic traits of their hormonal circadian rhythms. * Females need to listen to their bodies and be wary of one-size-fits-all approaches to hormones such as birth control. The pill can either be a saving grace or bring complications.

[18:39] Understanding Hormones, Treatment and Therapies * Even without the extremes such as hormonally-related cancers, daily issues such as migraines, fatigue, weight gain, and nutrient deficiencies can occur. * Knowing your innate tendencies is essential to feeling healthy and optimal. * Most women enter womanhood without clearly understanding their innate patterns. This lack of understanding forces them to accept the routine or resort to pharmaceutical treatment. * Symptoms of what was thought of as supposedly lyme disease and other complications vanish when women enter pregnancy. * Some hydroxy-dominant women have a genetic predisposition to inflammation and oxidative stress due to hormones, regardless of their diet.

[29:44] Estrogen and Testosterone * Estrogen is essentially aromatised testosterone. * Four hydroxy estrogen metabolites in men contribute to prostate enlargement, leading to inflammation. * Men who have a genetic predisposition to aggressively convert estrogen into metabolites are more likely to experience benign prostatic hyperplasia. * Both men and women will benefit from understanding their tendencies when it comes to converting metabolites.

[35:57] Athleticism, Menstrual Health and Birth Control * Some women can eat the same food and do the same exercises but can never achieve the same musculature. * World-class athletes need to understand their monthly cycle thoroughly to be in an optimal state. * Being on the pill makes you estrogenised for 21 days instead of the usual five days, which can be wonderful or detrimental for you depending on your genetic makeup. * Estrogen binding to its receptors radically changes gene expression. Being on the pill fundamentally changes you on a cellular level. * The pill can be right or wrong for you; taking it is not a trivial matter. Women aren't designed to be estrogenised continuously in the long-term, as it affects mitochondrial efficiency.

[47:46] The Effect of Having a Proclivity to Produce 4-Hydroxy and Being on the Pill * Being on the pill exacerbates the effects of having a genetic predisposition to inflammatory and oxidative traits in hormones. * Women who already have a disadvantageous genetic profile expose themselves to greater toxicity if they estrogenise themselves non-stop. * Estrogen isn't evil, and it keeps us young. However, we have to find a balance. * Listen to the full episode to understand the entire process and the chemical processes and genetic pathways involved!

[53:32] The Importance of Cellular Balance * Cells have other receptors, and there has to be a proper balance and circadian rhythms to have healthy processes. * Optimal health comes when the presence of hormones come in optimal waves. * There are many nutraceutical or nutritional intake and environmental exposures that can further slow down essential processes. An example is a glass of red wine. * If you know your genetic predispositions, you can improve your quality of life. * This knowledge empowers us to make choices to either live a healthier life or at least mitigate negative consequences and know our genetic limits.

[1:03:57] Hormonal Implications for Men * Older men can erroneously assume testosterone is the magic fix to declining sex drive and athletic performance due to aging. * However, the reality is that you may have a genetic predisposition to convert testosterone into estrogen and become more estrogenised. * These have implications with undergoing testosterone replacement therapy and can undermine your goals.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Your listeners have to understand that the way in which their bodies respond to these hormones define and contribute every aspect of cellular function’.

‘Few aspects of medicine are as boldly innately different as the nuances and the individuality of a young woman's innate genetic control of the circadian rhythm’.

‘It defines why she can eat the same foods, exercise the same as her mate, in fact, exercise more than her mate and be fit and be beautiful and be strong, but never get that cut or that sort of musculature’.

‘When you are naturally menstruating, there's only a window of about five to seven days, give or take, in your 28- or 30-day or thereabouts, where you are in your unit, but recycle that your body is actively producing estrogens. Those estrogens are actively circulating in your bloodstream. And the cells of your body are actively responding to that estrogen’.

‘It's about the balance... A healthy female cell is one that is having, it's a traffic system, and it's one that is being trafficked into it at the proper ratios at the proper circadian pulses and rhythms’.

‘If you do not know these things, you're going to be at risk of using a one size fits all approach that will be beneficial for 10%, 20%, 50% of women, but that most certainly equally can be deleterious for a group of young women, unwittingly’.

‘This is about empowerment, it is the empowerment of being informed — being informed about your unique predisposition. What is your operating manual, making your more normative choices, if you will, of these cascades? And then how do you optimise the things that you want to do and the things you don't want to do’?

About Dr Mansoor Dr Mansoor Mohammed is the President and CSO of The DNA Company, a leading and innovative provider of comprehensive Functional Genomics testing, consulting and personalised health solutions.

He is widely regarded as a pioneer in medical genomics and has been the recipient of multiple academic and industry awards. He is the holder of several patents in the general fields of molecular diagnostics and genomics research and is one of the most sought-after national and international conference speakers in the genre of personalised medicine.

Prior to his role at The DNA Company, Dr Mansoor was also the former Founder and President of ManaGene, CEO of Combimatrix, Director of Genomics at Quest Diagnostics and Director of Research and Development at Spectral Genomics.

He continuously maintains an active clinical practice as a genomics consultant to some of the leading executive health clinics in Canada and abroad, has served on the Canadian Board of Autistic Research and is a consultant to the world-renowned Toronto Center of Applied Genomics.

If you want to learn more about Dr Mansoor and his work on genetics, you may visit his website. Alternatively, you can check out his Facebook and Twitter.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits this week. I have a really super duper interview coming up. I know we say that but are some of the people I have just blown me away. And this is Dr. Mansoor Mohammed who is coming on the show today, that name may ring a bell because documents or has been on the show, I think three times previous to this occasion. And he is one of my great mentors and teachers. And he's one of the world's leading geneticists, and functional genomic scientists. And it's really, really exciting to be able to work with a caliber of men, like Dr. Mansoor.

Now, today's subject that Dr. Mansoor is going to be talking about is hormones, hormones and your genetic profile in regards to your hormones. We're specifically looking at the female hormone situation today. But what I do want you to know is that the hormones cascade is exactly the same for me. So a lot—while we’re specifically focusing in on the woman today, and we'll probably focus in on the men on another episode. A lot of what we're saying here will be relevant to men too. And just understanding that you need to know about these pathways, the genetic pathways, before you go mucking around with anything hormonal. And also some of the nutriceuticals that you may or may be taking can also interfere with this pathway too. So this information that's going to be coming out to you today is absolute game changer. Really important for me.

I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, and because I'm going through the menopausal change at the moment, just being transparent. So this information for me has been absolutely crucial because I can tailor my own hormone prescription to my specific genetic needs. And then layering that on with understanding where my bloods are at as well. So it's really really key information.

If you're a woman who is on the pill, if you're a woman who's got endometriosis, or PCOS. Or if you're a male who's got prostate problems, or if you're a male who's thinking of going on testosterone replacement, all of these things are really, really pertinent to this conversation today. So I don't want you to miss out. Now do stick around to the end of the conversation because Dr. Mansoor has a company called the DNA, a company which actually has DNA reports. So you can get your DNA tested. If after listening to this session, you are curious about what the heck your hormone pathway is, and how to optimise it, then you can—you know, stick around to the end and check out the show notes as all the links will be in there as well.

Before we head over to Dr. Mansoor, I just want to remind you, we have a new system now in Running Hot Coaching, my online run training academy. We have fully personalised, customised run training plans based specifically on your goals and where you're headed. If you want to join us in our company, we would love you to come along. You're going to get a session with me to discuss all your goals and your objectives, to answer any questions around running. And then you would also get a fully—after that consultation has been done, you'll get a video analysis so we can actually look at you running and analyse your running style and help you optimise that. And then you're going to get a fully customised training plan for your specific next goal. Whether that's a 10K or 5K, a marathon, a half marathon, it doesn't matter. We will provide the plan for you which will also include all your mobility work, your strength work, as well as your run sessions. And also guidance around nutrition and electrolytes and mindset, which are very, very important pieces of the puzzle as well. So if you want to check that out, head on over to runninghotcoaching.com. And you can find out all about it or if you've got any questions reach out to me support@lisatamati.com.

Also wanted to remind you my latest book, Relentless is available for sale. You can grab that on my website at lisatamati.com along with my other two books Running Hot and Running to Extremes. I'd love you to check those out. If you love some of the content that's been on this podcast, then these books will definitely be up your alley.

My latest book is a bit different to the first two, which were my running adventures and all the highs and lows and disasters and successes that I had racing the world's most extreme events on the planet. The third one is really the journey I took with my mum over the last—how many—nearly five years now. After her aneurysm and bringing her back and rehabilitating her. But it's not just a book about rehabilitation. It's about mindsets about overcoming the odds. It's about the mental strength to be able to carry on when everybody's telling you there's no chance and there's no tomorrow. It's a book that will empower, inspire and have some very, very important messages that I'm really, really keen to get out in the world. So please make sure you check that out as well, Relentless. You can find all of those on lisatamati.com.

Right now over to the show with Dr. Mansoor Mohammed.

Well, hi, everybody, and welcome back. I am super excited once again to have Dr. Mansoor Mohammed on the show today. And Dr. Mansoor is a real repeat offender on the show. I think this is the fourth podcast. You're the only person who's been on here four times, Dr Mansoor so welcome to the show again. It's fantastic to have you back.

Dr Mansoor: It's an absolute pleasure. I'm not sure does that mean I have to repeat myself to be understood?

Lisa: No, you've got so much knowledge that we have to share with everybody. That's why.

Dr Mansoor: Absolute honor.

Lisa: So Dr Mansoor, so today, we are going to be focusing everybody on genetics and hormones in particular. And we're going to be focusing in a bit on the ladies, although this is very relevant for the men out there too. So don't turn off if you're a guy and just go ‘Well, this is for one for the ladies’. This is also aimed at men.

But Dr. Mansoor is a world leading functional genomic scientist. And we're going to be talking today about the hormone cascade and understanding our genetic pathways that we take with our hormones and why we need to understand this and how important it is for us. So Dr. Mansoor where shall we start with this journey of going through the hormones.

Dr Mansoor: I think the first thing we want our listeners to understand and it's not lost in any young woman, post menarche. And so let's just define just two quick terms menarche, the time in which a young woman begins a monthly cycle and she enters into young womanhood all the way through menopause, pre menopause, perimenopause and then postmenopausal. But in all of these wonderful stages of a young woman's life, that there's what we call sex hormones, the steroid hormones, the progesterone, the androgens, most notably testosterone, estrogens and their respective metabolites. They influence the human body at a cellular and at a holistic level, in the most fundamental of ways. Okay, so that's the first thing. Just to emphasise the importance of these sex hormones.

The second is to clarify that with this importance, it's not just about external female characteristics of breast developmental, hip flare or thigh developmental, bum developmental, factor position. It's not just “about the obvious phenotypic or physiologic manifestations” of these hormones. We have to understand that sex hormones impact every aspect of cellular behaviour. These hormones when produced—and by definition, hormones are messenger molecules that are produced in one part of the body. In this case, for example, the ovaries. They then enter into the bloodstream, circulate throughout the body, and then impact every cell in that cellular behaviour. So the second more important point is our listeners have to understand that the way in which their bodies respond to these hormones define and contribute to every aspect of cellular function, every aspect of cellular function.

Now, if we can appreciate that. The third thing we've got to appreciate and the young woman’S body, okay, is that there's a circadian rhythm or circadian, generally speaking, that there's a circadian nature to these hormones. In other words, it strikes me and I attended a remarkable conference a bit over a year ago. It was with the Red Bull team of super athletes and their clinicians. And one of the clinicians, she is from the UK. She specialises in treating female athletes. That's her series dealing with female athletes. And in her presentation, we were all presenting at this conference. She said something that was alarming, heart wrenching, but almost not surprising all at once. And what was she said, she would run a survey on these female athletes. These are like Top of the World female athletes, one of which just to begin with was one of the top—if not the top—female soccer teams in the world. And she said, not a single one of these athletes, female athletes were ever asked or made aware of the health of their monthly cycle.

Lisa: Wow. Yes. And these are the top people let alone the other...

Dr Mansoor: Yes, and so she was beside herself as a scientist and the clinician, that for something as fundamentally impactful to the human body, as those sex hormones. So for example, as she illustrated, depending on whether a woman is in her follicular phase or her luteal phase of her menstrual cycle, proclivities to injuries change, the flexibility of the ligaments, and the body changes, the response to the body to different types of motifs of exercises, changes. When is the female body—can we speak in here, at first, in generalities of the average female going through a monthly cycle, not yet on the pill, we're going to talk about the pills as a separate factor. But just is part of the normative circadian rhythm of the female body. The female body morphs physiologically, cellular metabolically at day seven of the monthly cycle is completely different. And that's speaking a little bit extreme as to the body when it's on day 15, as to the body when it's on day 20. And so you've got individuals demanding the very best from their body optimal performance. And they have not yet even come to terms with the baseline changes to the body between these stages.

And as you pointed out, so many injuries due to training in these athletes, and again, we're speaking of athletes, but we can, we can juxtapose that. Like you said the average female trying to simply be the best version of herself, could be avoided. If the young woman only knew what stage in her monthly cycle she was at. If the young woman only knew the oxidative stresses that are different during different times of the monthly cycle. So if I told you Lisa, that at a point in your menstruating cycle, you innately, naturally have surplus, oxidative stress. It really doesn't take a lot further to grow to understand in those times and days, the last thing you want to do is go—there you go. You don't want to put even more oxidative stress at that point in the body. And so on, and so on, and so forth.

So in this third category, as you said, to establish the baseline that we're speaking of, we've got to understand the importance of hormones, we've got to understand that it's beyond just the outward superficial physiology of the body. And in this case, speaking of young women, we've got to understand that there is a circadian rhythm to these hormones.

Now, once we understand these three bases, these three points,then we have to appreciate that part, a significant part of what controls, that's the circadian rhythm. And then within that circadian rhythm, what controls the nuances of one young woman versus the other relies upon their genetics.

Lisa: The genetics, yes.

Dr Mansoor: And so once we understand the functionality of the circadian rhythm of the female cycle, Lipson, once we understand the gears that are going through those 28, approximate dates, once we understand that rhythm, we understand the genes that control or significantly contribute to that rhythm. We understand that each individual potentially has variations in those genes that controls that rhythm. We begin to understand the nuances. We begin to understand the individuality of Paula versus Lisa versus Joanne versus Isabel. And so we begin to understand that one aspect of every aspect of intelligent medicine. But few aspects of medicine are as boldly innately different as the nuances and the individuality of a young woman's innate genetic control of the circadian rhythm. And one week we will talk about this, we need to appreciate this.

And the most abhorrent of complications that occur, if you do not understand this individuality, one young woman to the next, and then you take that birth control pill, I am not, of course, I have no place to be anti birth control, but I'm a man. I'm not a young woman. Now. So this is not about being controlling. No, not at all. But it's the fate. The simplest thing that we think that you can take 1000 university young woman, you know, first year university students, girls, young woman. And somehow put them on the same birth control, literally the same birth control. And somehow expect that they're getting to be the same effect, and somehow minimalise and even criticise a young woman who comes back and says, ‘I find that I'm gaining weight. I find that I'm—my mood is not the same, I find a’.. And then because five other young women don't have those issues, the doctor says ‘No, that's not because of the pill’, and they are dismissed. And they're not even appreciated as to the uniqueness of their body's response to something.

Again, sometimes the pill is a saving grace for a young woman. But what we're speaking of here is in these three pillars, the fourth pillar is the individuality of the genetics of that young woman. And all of the remarkable insights that a young woman can gain from this. Before I go any further, it's not a plug in the least I hope I'm not, you know, going against any regulation of your podcast, but there’s a brilliant book called In the FLO.

Lisa: In the FLO. We’ll put the link in the show notes.

Dr Mansoor: I have no association with the author. But it's just she did an amazing job. And I'm trying to get the name as I'm speaking about. I'll remember the name. She did an amazing job, without the genetics, of showing how radically important a young woman understanding her circadian rhythm, how different points of her month, her body responds to different foods differently, her brain response, her emotive response. She's really done a beautiful job of highlighting the awesome, holistic cellular changes that go through a young woman's body in these waves of human rhythms every 28 days. So this sets the stage Lisa, everything that we might want to talk about, is predicated on this understanding. And then the genetics that explains this.

Lisa: That’s a beautiful entry into this whole actual looking at the mechanics, if you like, of the genetic pathways that I do want to get into. Because in other words, every single woman is individual. And this is the beauty of genetics in general, is that we can actually personalise once we understand their own genetic pathways. And you know, we do this both in our profession is to understand what our genes are doing and how they're expressing and how we can optimise these genetic pathways, if you like, in this case, with our hormonal pathways.

And this has a real implication when it comes to things like the birth control pill, when it comes to—In my case, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy on the other end of the scale going through the menopausal years. Because this has implications whereas, you know, if I take biological hormone replacement therapy, and we've actually talked briefly on one of their podcasts about some of my hormonal which I'm happy to share as well.

I'm on a hormone replacement therapy. But I understand my genes, and I understand where my problems may lie. And therefore I can keep an eye by from a blood perspective, you know, keep an eye on my hormone levels, but I understand my own cascade. And I can mitigate the chances for example of developing estrogen-based cancers or, you know, like breast cancers or cervical cancers. Whereas another person, if we put them on the same regime may run into trouble.

Dr Mansoor: Indeed, even without the—shall we say, more extreme outcomes or concerns, such as hormonally-related cancers, but really just even the day to day well being of the body. You know, the risk of peripheral neuropathy is, the risk of migraines or lack before resolving them fatigue, weight gain, things that are—the way your body responds to nutrients. Again, understanding where your body innately, your your innate tendency is, as per explained by your genes. And we'll get into some profound examples of this.

And then making sure that you act in accordance because we have choices. And some of the choices we can make. And sometimes there are, you know, I think there are many times we speak about human optimisation.There are certain voices, and they have a point that can say, ‘Look, but there are universal truisms’. They're just things that we should all know, are either healthy or unhealthy. And there are a few of these things...

But what is remarkable here is, especially when it comes to female hormones, there are things that you might deem to be universally healthy, but actually can be either unhealthy or certainly not optimal for some young woman versus others. So we’re really in the realm here of not just talking about universal truisms that are relevant with or without genetics. We're speaking of nuances that are so radically important.

And may I say with that, if it's okay with you. I'd like to then set the stage of some of—just set the stage for themes, themes that your audience, your listeners. And then I'm going to say a few things. And my hope, and my goal is, for many of the listeners out there, at least a few of these things should resonate. For example, how many young women out there find that their introduction and their experience to cyclical migraines kick in post puberty?

In other words, here she is, she's living in the same home, same nutrition, healthy, or whatever version of lifestyle, and the day comes where she enters into your womanhood and break there after, right there after. Not directly related to her flow as per what she could physically and visually manifest. But this concept of now dealing with migraines, a concept of dealing with a circadian rhythm to her mood, and to her what she might find trouble for those first few years until she becomes an adult woman. And she's got life experiences, but she's always found that she's having a hard time to express, that she literally feels that her emotional resilience, that ability, that barometer to what tips are over that scale of resilience changes. And she's never—and no one has even asked her by the way. ‘Do you see that it comes in patterns? Do you find that it happens? And kicks in three to five days prior to your cycle? Do you find that that's when you see some of these changes in the month? Do you find that it kicks in a day before ovulation? Do you even know when ovulation is happening’? None of these conversations are going to happen.

So that these apparently unrelated just symptomologies of ‘Well, there's some anxiety’, or you know, ‘I get migraine’. They just brushed under the growing list of things that ‘Will you just take a pill for it’? Meaning a pharmaceutical treatment. Or they're minimised and somehow they're accepted as just a routine part of all, that's what it is to life. Okay. Or how many young women out there have dealt with some of the symptoms of migraines or pain, Fibromyalgia-like pain, debilitating fatigue. And then something miraculous happens. When they become pregnant for nine months, most of all, have their symptoms resolved. How many young women have said to me, I can't tell you, Lisa. Again, I know that being in New Zealand, I'm not sure if you have to deal with the plague of Lyme disease. It's something that we have here more in Eastern America.

Lisa: Yes, more overseas.

Dr Mansoor: But yes, but it's a bacterial tick borne disease that ruins lives. And there are, interestingly, a preponderance of women who present with Lyme disease-like symptoms. Now, we worked, I worked in a clinic and I was one of the first to describe this phenomenon. And I had to say not trivialising the horridness of disease, I said to a patient, I said, ‘You know, those ticks don't like women more than men’.

Lisa: Then why more women are presenting with these symptoms?

Dr Mansoor: Presenting with the symptoms. Unless women were more likely to go trekking and hiking and be exposed to, you know. But here's the point. It was that there was a significant—in one of the clinics that we did the study in. There were a significant number of women who presented with classically, what outwardly seemed as Lyme disease symptomologies of debilitating fatigue, almost concussion-like presentations, mental malaise, muscle aches and pains, as I mentioned, Fibromyalgia-like presentations, and they were convinced that they had Lyme disease, convinced that they had Lyme disease. And because it's such a polymorphic disease, yet many doctors were going ahead and treating them with massive antibiotics, even if they couldn't confirm the Lyme disease.

Because many doctors, almost agreeably have had to say because so many, so many true Lyme patients are being under cared for, right that there are some really good doctors wanting to do the right thing, who were treating the symptom and the presentation, per se. But amongst individuals were a preponderance of women who were not testing positive for Lyme disease. So what was going on here? And what we did when we studied these young women was, we looked at a significant number who then went ahead and became pregnant during their proposed Lyme disease. And for the nine months of pregnancy, all of their symptoms resolved. And I had to say to both the doctors and the patients I said, ‘Your Borealis, the burgdorferi Borrelia bacteria, the bacteria that causes—that doesn't just take a hike during pregnancy’.

Lisa: It doesn't just go away.

Dr Mansoor: It doesn’t just go away. It's not that. So what else is at play here? Well, how many young women understand that during their menstruating months and years, the primary estrogen in their body is estradiol? During pregnancy, your primary estrogen is estriol. Estriol is not metabolised into the same byproducts as estradiol. Estradiol can be metabolised. Every young woman metabolises this estradiol into three byproducts, 2-hydroxy estradiol, 4-hydroxy estradiol, 16alpha-hydroxy estradiol. Now every young woman produces all three. But genetically, you are predisposed to producing more of one or the other depending on your genetics.

And if you happen to be the young woman who was predisposed to producing in the ratio, more than 4-hydroxy or even the 16alpha-hydroxy, and God forbid more of the following 16 hydroxy as compared to the 2-hydroxy, the 4-hydroxy. And to a degree, the 16alpha-hydroxy metabolites are particularly inflammatory. They're literally inflammatory metabolites that the body has been designed to get rid of.

But if you were that young woman that genetically, was predisposed to producing more of these naughty metabolites, as opposed to the much, much less inflammatory two hydroxide. Then just innately, you the young woman that recycles the body, when it comes around to the body metabolising, those estradiol, your primary estrogen when you're menstruating. When that estradiol is metabolised for a period of two, three to five days, depending on your particulars, your body, literally, regardless of whether you were eating organic and living organic and breathing the best hair in the world, normally, you are producing an internal inflammogen. An internal thing that is causing both inflammation and oxidative stress. Now, during pregnancy, when you become estriol dominant..

Lisa: You're not getting it.

Dr Mansoor: You don't get these metabolised. And so when a young woman gets pregnant, and she complains prior to pregnancy, of these malaise and the symptomologies and then comes pregnancy and the only thing that has changed, and I've had young women cry in my office saying ‘Dr. Mansoor, how did you know to ask me if I felt better during pregnancy’? Because usually it's quite the opposite. People think, ‘Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna get morning sickness. And I'm gonna’... These young women were better off. And they would say, ‘You know Mansoor, wish I could stay ‘pregnant. Those were the months where I actually had a relief from symptoms’. So this is Lisa...

Lisa: Yes. Sorry Dr. Mansoor. So these 4-hydroxy in the 16alpha-hydroxy to a lesser degree, because it's a rarer situation. And this is in relation to the Cyp19a1 gene, the aromatase gene, turning our testosterones into estrogens. Is there any—so when we go on that—if we put on the pill, which is got estrogen in it. And you're one of those women who have—and this goes for me too. My husband has a 4-hydroxy dominance for example, which is a problem. He is—are we exasperating the problem when we take the pill without knowing it?

Dr Mansoor: So just to clarify and add a layer of clarity. So estrogen and the estrogen molecule and the estrogen hormone is actually nothing other than aromatised testosterone. So a lot of young women don't appreciate that, you know, they self identify with estrogen. You know, women tend to self-identify their estrogens, and men tend to “self identify with testosterone”.

In fact, I had one of these absurd pop ups on—I was watching a food vlog which is my guilty pleasure, especially doing COVID. I like watching it, you know, foods being prepared and you've got these annoying YouTube ads that come up. And what if it was this buffed, you know, male trainer and he comes on the screen on the ad and he goes, ‘Well, testosterone is what makes a man, a man’. Not quite.

But the point is, men need to understand that we too, make estrogens. And women need to understand that the very estrogens that they may or may not self identify with are really simply testosterone molecules that had been aromatised. Okay, so there is a gene, a specific gene, one gene Cyp19a1, as you have mentioned. And in fact, the parlance, the more common name for the Cyp19a1 gene is aromatase. And this gene with its enzyme chemically changes testosterone into estrogen, i.e. estradiol, estriol, as the case might be, okay.

But then once you make your estrogen, your estradiol, let's just fix it at that. Then there are other genes that make other enzymes, that make the two or the four or the 16 byproducts. So specifically, there's a gene known as the CYP1B1, CYP1—Bravo—1. This is the gene that makes the self named enzyme that takes some of your estrogen and turns it into the naughty, 4-hydroxy estrogen metabolite. Now, the point here is different women and different men—and just to clarify for the male listeners out there, if you would think that estrogen was a female issue, and if you would think that 4-hydroxy estrogen was a female issue, think again. And we now understand that 4-hydroxy estrogen metabolites in men contributes to prostate enlargement, contributes to the inflammation of the prostate for many years. In fact, for the last two to three decades, all of the research on benign prostate hyperplasia in men has focused on a testosterone metabolite, known as DHT.

So DHT, dihydrotestosterone is the product, it is the metabolite of testosterone produced by the steroid five alpha reductase to the SRD5A2 gene with its enzyme produces that metabolite. And it is true, the DHT, one molecule of DHT has the potency to bind androgen receptors as six molecules of testosterone. It's a much more potent, super testosterone. Super, right.

So here's the thing. DHT is to testosterone. As 4-hydroxy, estrogen is to estrogen. DHT is the testosterone metabolite that interacts with the androgen receptor, much in the same way as the 4-hydroxy metabolite of estrogen. 4-hydroxy overproduction and men, we have now discovered is a significant contributor to the etiology and the progression of prostate and benign prostate hyperplasia.

Lisa: I thought it was just a SRD, the DHT so I need to know. Yes, okay, I need to go and check that with my husband.

Dr Mansoor: Now for the last couple of years. Some of the actual pharmaceutical clinical trials to treat benign prostate hyperplasia has switched everything, all of our propecia and finasteride, these medications that we currently... And just for the male listeners out there, it is unsurprising that the very medications that are often used for benign prostate hyperplasia, were found or would then use for balding. It has the same DHT that promotes male pattern balding is the same testosterone metabolites that over inflames the prostate. But now we understand that the males who have the 4-hydroxy estrogen preponderance genetically, why? Because they had a version of the CYP1B1 gene that made a version of the CYP1B1 enzyme that is more aggressive at converting estrogen into this metabolite. So men, this discussion is equally important to you.

But coming back to the females very quickly, then Lisa. You see a young woman who does not know who's going about her, you know, her life and her teenage years and her 20s not even knowing ‘what is the degree—what is what is my innate tendency within which I convert my progesterone to testosterone? What is my innate tendency to convert testosterone to DHT? That more virulent testosterone? What is my innate tendency to convert testosterone into estrogen? And by the way, once I make the estrogens? What is my innate tendency and converting it into the twos and the fours and the 16 metabolites’?

Because you see, if a young woman were to understand this right off the bat looser, it defines why and how easily she develops lean muscle mass. It defines why she can eat the same foods, exercise the same as her mate, in fact, exercise more than her mate, and be fit and be beautiful and be strong, but never get that cut or that sort of musculature. As for not saying that that's what she wants to know. But so many women are going ‘I work so hard. I trained my bum off but I'm not seeing that type of’, this is going to be intimately described by the woman who is making less DHT from the testosterone, making more estrogens from making more 4-hydroxy estrogens from her estrogen from her testosterone. This is a young woman whose cellular level is estro dominant and estro toxic. And she cannot until and unless she appreciates this.

And until and unless she takes steps to reduce. And of course, that's the million dollar question, ‘Can we take us to 37:00 reduce it easily’? And the overwhelming answer is, ‘Yes, we can’. Okay. But she's even unaware of this to take the steps in the first place. So let me come back to those super athletic young females for whom their doctor, when they did the research. Here they were, no one ever even asked them what their monthly cycle health was. ‘Are you having a monthly cycle? Is it irregular? How do you feel with the cycle? Are you on the pill’?

So now I answer your question, you see Lisa, if you didn't know where you were innately on that cascade. Remember, young woman out there, all of the ladies out there, in a ‘normal’, in your natural monthly cycle, without the pill. You know, just you're 16, you're 26, you're 36 you're menstruating. How many of you realise that that estrogen that you self identify with isn't produced 24/7, 30 days a month?

Lisa: Exactly. It is when you put on the pill work.

Dr Mansoor: That's the difference isn't it? The very point that I'm trying to make is, in your natural monthly cycle, your body is only estrogenised, it is only under the influence of this hormone. And I'm going to stop beside and make a couple more points on this. But I'll finish my point here.

When you are naturally menstruating, there's only a window of about five to seven days, give or take in your 28 or 30 day or thereabouts, where you are in your unique monthly cycle, that your body is actively producing estrogens. Those estrogens are actively circulating in your bloodstream. And the cells of your body are actively responding to that estrogen. Compare and contrast that to being on the pill, where have for 21 days of a 28 day cycle, not five to seven days, 21 days, your body is under the influence of testosterone. Here's the thing Lisa, that I have to admit. And again, let me be clear, all of Lisa's amazing listeners, this is not about anti-pill. The pill is absolutely—it is your right. It is something that you control. It is absolutely a godsend for different times of your life and for different young women. But you've got to ask, Where are you in the spectrum of young woman? And how will your body respond to this differently? And you would at least need to understand that your body was not estrogen eyes for 21 days in your normal cycle.

And here's the newest thing, Lisa. That I must admit, this gives me indigestion. Again, I have no say over the matter, but down the practice of actually having no bleed, how many women are now being put on constant pill without even a bleed through? So now you go from a normal physiology of every month, say seven days of estrogenisation to 365 days of estrogenisation.

Lisa: Disaster.

Dr Mansoor: So now, Lisa I'm—and we would be remiss if I don't quickly emphasise to our listeners, what is estrogen? ‘What is this thing that you—okay, well, it's stopping me from getting pregnant. My hair is luscious, my skin might look really wonderful. So after all, shouldn't be a problem’. What you have to understand, and our listeners out there in the female body—and I can speak of the male and female body, I'm just going to focus on the female body for the time being. In the female body, Lisa, every single cell produces these receptors for estrogen. So if this is your cell, you have an estrogen receptor. And when that estrogen is produced, or it is taken as a pill, or as whatever the— even certain neutra estrogen analog or xenoestrogens and plastics, these molecules enter your body, they bind to these receptors on your cells, okay? Because by the way, estrogen doesn't do what it does in the body by just being produced and floating in the bloodstream. No. Estrogens do what they do in the body by being produced by then binding to these receptors. And what happens, this is the important point. What happens when estrogen binds to its receptor? What happens is the DNA expression, your genes in that cell, gene expression is radically altered? Literally, the genes, the instructions within your cellular operating manual changes when estrogen enters the cells. When there's no estrogen in the cell changes. So now let's come back, the female body..

Lisa: Apologies for the phone call people in the background.

Dr Mansoor: The female body in its normative circadian rhythm experiences a gene expression shift, change in gene expression for the days in which your estrogen was elevated. And yet, of course, it comes back down in the normal cycle. What happens when you force yourself to go into a gene expression shift to 365..

Lisa: Constantly.

Dr Mansoor: ...days a year without change.

Lisa: And we're talking like hundreds of genes, hundreds of thousands of genes that have been changed, turned on and off, turned on, and wow.

Dr Mansoor: These genes impact the metabolic efficiency of your cells. Well, the thyroid function, which is why how many times we see a competitive joint problem between hypothyroidism, hyperinsulinemia—your body's response to insulin, and estrogen dominance. Wow. And when these three things come together, we euphemistically call it metabolic syndrome. You know, there's a read, there's a point behind, there's an impact behind it.

And the point here that I want to make is, we often just think of the sometimes and arguably beneficial outcomes, outward outcomes of being on the pill. Okay. And I emphasise for the umpteenth time, please, this is not about not being on the pill. The pill can be what is right for you at certain points in your life. But it's about being educated, that taking this hormone is not something as trivial as stopping your ovaries from producing an egg. That's not what that hormone is doing only. This hormone is interacting with every cell in your body and it is changing the way your genes express in every cell of your body.

Now, the point here is, if we were to do—I like to call it a heat map. If you took a young woman, and you colour code her body, from white to red, according to which cells in her body have had more estrogen receptors. What you will do is the whole body isn't going to be white, the whole body isn't going to be red, it's going to be shades of white and pink and red. And of course, unsurprisingly, the region of the breast tissue will be somewhat the reddest, because those cells and the breast tissue are some of the most sensitive to estrogen. So what does this mean? It means that when estrogen is present in the bloodstream, the cells of the breast tissue are some of the most able to absorb that estrogen. But what happens when it absorbs the estrogen? Gene expression happens, gene expression changes happens. And the cells were designed to account for a circadian rhythm to their gene expression change. Not 21 days, repeatedly, repeatedly, or 28 days, for that matter, repeatedly, repeatedly.

Again, I stress not for the young woman who is seeking birth control maybe for a few months, or periods in our life. We're speaking of the travesty of the young woman that had been on the pill since they were 14. And here they are 32.

Lisa: Unable to conceive and or cancers, or weight gain, or cellulitis, or all of these implications.

Dr Mansoor: The very metabolic machinery of that cell, you're very mitochondrial efficient efficiency of the cell is impacted during—and this brings me back to the brilliant comment by the brilliant female scientists that I was speaking of earlier, where a young woman should understand that in her natural, healthy 28 day rhythm, metabolic efficiency, mitochondrial efficiency, changes in response to the ratios and the waves and thrusts of progesterone versus testosterone versus estrogen. Think what happens when you put a blanket of estrogen over everything, 24/7, 28 days, 30 days a month, 365 days a year.

Now, the point here, Lisa is coming back to even more finesse point in your question is, well, that is what I what we've just explained happens in every young woman that goes into pill, every young woman that goes into pill. But what happens when you didn't realise that you had the proclivity of making more of the 4-hydroxy estrogens? What happens when you didn't realise that your ability to then neutralise the 4-hydroxy estrogen that inflammatory estrogen metabolic, which by the way, you know, not realising that you were making more of it. You were producing—when you introduce X amount of estrogen molecules more if it was going down the 4-hydroxy pathway than the healthier 2-hydroxy pathway? If you were not aware of this, and you were doubly unaware of the molecular mechanisms that neutralise? So what is the gene? —

Let's take a look at this. What is the gene that neutralises 4-hydroxy estrogen? What is that gene? The gene that neutralises, is COMT, catechol-O-methyltransferase. This is the gene, the gene that is—makes an enzyme. The same name, that's COMT enzyme. And the job one of the jobs of this enzyme is that it recognises the production of 4-hydroxy estrogen, which is inflammatory, which is pro-oxidative, pro-inflammatory, pro-estrogen. Indeed. Because here's what happens, that 4-hydroxy estrogen—think about it, Lisa and all of the listeners—you took estrogen, which was binding to its receptor, and causing all of those estrogenised changes that we spoke of. So of course, what the body wants to do is it wants to limit the duration by which estrogen can bind to its receptor.

So it's good to metabolise the estrogen. But ironically, when you metabolise your estrogen into 4-hydroxy, estrogen, ironically it's still doing—in fact, not only is it still binding to the estrogen receptor. Some studies indicate it can bind to the estrogen receptor actually with greater proclivity within greater binding efficiency than its original estrogen. And it can induce that altered gene expression 2-hydroxy estrogen does not do it near as much, which is why we consider the 2-hydroxy estrogen prefer—to be the best pathway.

Well, the point here is COMT converts that full hydroxy estrogen into 4-methoxy estrogen. Now, 4-methoxy estrogen dramatically loses its ability to bind to the estrogen receptor. So 4-methoxy estrogen is what we can now say it's no longer estrogenising. Okay? The other thing of the 4-hydroxy, going back now to the 4-hydroxy, estrogen, if you're not removing it, if you are not converting it by methylation into the methoxy, estrogen, 4-hydroxy estrogen, it decomposes into these nasty little molecules called quinolones. Horrible, not very nice things. And quinolones decomposed into oxidants. So the whole stagnation if—let's let's clarify the statement now.

Now, if as a young woman, you did not know that you have the predisposition, when ever your body sees estrogens, whether they are internally made, or externally introduced, when ever your body sees estrogen molecules, if you did not know that you A) tend to metabolise those estrogens into 4-hydroxy by products more than we would like and B) you will not as efficient at neutralising the 4-hydroxy estrogen by virtue of COMT, what you are unaware of is you are unaware of this thing called an estro dominant burden with estro toxicity. You are unaware that in your normal cycle for five to seven-ish days, your body is under the strain of an internal inflammatory production, internal oxidative stress more than your female companions. And will you to then take that normal exposure, but then by going day in day out on an estrogen source, think of what you're doing to the body.

Lisa: And by the same take of the bio identical hormone replacement on the other end of the scale with the menarche, the menopause. And we want like, just just to clarify, estrogens are not evil things we want. The body needs estrogens and like it keeps us younger. I mean being on—this is the dilemma that I've been facing. The biological hormone placement keeps me—my bone density good, keeps me—you know, being able to hold my muscle, my skin is better. I'm not aging as quickly the inability or cells of my vessels are better, etc, etc. However, I need to keep those in a balance so that I don't get too many chicks estrogens going in or I need to keep my progesterone up and I need to make sure I know where my testosterone is. Yeah, so that.

Dr Mansoor: Because it's about the balance. It's about finding—and so here's that final point. You know how we spoke about the cells, Lisa having these estrogen receptors? Well, your cells have androgen receptors as well. And they have progesterone receptors as well. So think now, we can almost visualise a healthy soul, a healthy female soul is one that is having—it's a traffic system. And it's one that is being trafficked into it at the proper ratios at the proper circadian pulses and rhythms.

Sometimes estrogens are getting in, altering gene expression in an estrogenised manner. Sometimes androgens are getting in altering the gene expression in an androgenised manner. Sometimes progesterones are getting it, altering the gene expression and the progesterone alised manner. And it is optimal health and optimal youthfulness and responsiveness to yourself is when we get that circadian rhythm allowing the cell and allowing its operating manual, its genes to go through this rhythm of when are the—the genes that are controlled, and that are going to be expressed because of the presence of estrogen. The genes that are going to be controlled and expressed because of the presence of testosterone, because of the presence of progesterone, these waves and rhythms of gene expression, optimal health is when these waves happen in the optimal full manner, okay?

And we can replace that optimality and we can extend the optimality and therein lies the brilliance of hormone replacement, of which it absolutely is something that you know, other knowledge can afford. But unfortunately, when we do this, without the appreciation of the individuality of these ebb and flow waves, and we push the system, without appreciating what was the a priori tendency of that young woman. Was this young woman a priori andro dominant? Was she a priori estro dominant? Was she estro toxic? Was she estro dominant and estro toxic? If you do not know these things, you're going to be guilty of—you're going to be at risk of using a one size fits all approach that will be beneficial for 10%, 20%, 50% of woman, but that most certainly equally can be deleterious for a group of young woman, unwittingly.

Lisa: And this is what shocks me is that we have done this human experiment, like 85% of the population of woman on the planet who are in their menstrual years have been on or are on the pill, including myself, who was on it for 25, 30 years, I don't even know and ended up with fibroids, ended up with endometriosis, even though I don't have the 4-hydroxy dominance.

Yes, and because I was constantly on these things, and so now with these genetics—and this is the point. We are able to tweak into change. For example, I'm on organic black seed oil, which upregulates my Cyp18a1 genes, which helps me create more 2-hydroxy because I'm 57:15 red-lighted if you like for that one as well. I take them so that I can slow down the aromatase of testosterone. I have a very quick Cyp17a1. So I need a bit more progesterone support, because I'm making my testosterones very quickly. But without this knowledge, we just like throwing mud against the wall and hoping it sticks in the right places and doing so many people and injustice.

Dr Mansoor: Think about this, Lisa, that COMT, that all important—that is that is methylating those metabolites including the naughty 4-hydroxy estrogen. Well, Lisa and listeners out there, there's a variation of very, very, very well studied variation of that come to genome. For those of you who are dabbling with a little bit of genetics, this is the rs4680 variation. So you can actually go look at the code of the variation. And these variations have coding qualifications. This is the rs4680 variation. And this variation is defined by two alleles, two versions of the gene. One is a G version, G as in George, the other is the A as in apple version. Okay? Now, the G version of this gene produces a version of the enzyme that is faster, it is kinetically more efficient at doing its job. But what is it one of its jobs? Neutralising 4-hydroxy estrogen.

So much so that if you were a GG, both copies of your comt with the fast versions, the genes and versus if you were AA, both versions were slow. The AA COMT individuals, the people that have to have the slow versions of the gene, their COMT is working at 70% to 75% slower than the person that is... We're not talking trivialities, we're not talking 5% to 10%. We're saying that if you're an AA, your enzyme is doing the job. It's doing its job. It's just doing it 70% slower than if you were a GG. Now, here's the point. If you were a COMT A and you had the fast version of Cyp1B1 making more 4-hydroxy estrogen from whatever estrogens your body is seeing. Now you’re not getting rid of it.

And here's the final point. There are a number of nutraceutical nutritional intake things environmental exposures that can further epigenetically slow down COMT. So here's one of them. Several of the molecules, the phenolics, in red wine, which we could talk about whether red wine is good for you one glass, we can… But the phenolics in red wine epigenetically slows down COMT further. If you were in AA COMT, already dealing with a pump enzyme, it is doing its job. And then you will drink something like red wine that another person might have had, you know, perfectly fine having a glass of wine, or whatever the case might be helpfully. You don't even realise that you're doing something that is actually now nutraceutically—from a nutrition perspective, working against something in you that you were even unaware of.

Lisa: Wow. And then if you layer on that, that you don't have optimal B 12 levels and folate levels and your methylation process is slow.

Dr. Monsoor: Now we're really putting in—you're really putting fuel on the fire. So those listeners out there...

Lisa: Yes, this leads to things like cancer.

Dr. Monsoor: It leads to cancer, it leads to—again, I keep saying, you know, even before we get to cancers, it leads to a quality of life, that can be so radically either improved if we knew or simply a quality of life, where we're simply being told ‘Well, you know, that's just of the things… That's the way it is’.

Lisa: Wow, Dr.Mansoor, I know you've got another appointment coming up, and we have to jump off the call. And I don't really feel like we've finished this conversation. So again, I'm going to have to have you back. And we have to go over the men’s male hormone report too, because everything that we've seen today is also valid for the men in different races, same cascade.

And what I want to get across though, Dr. Mansoor is that you have the power now to be able to understand these genetics. So you and the DNA company have a hormone report, which I'm going to link to in the show notes that people can go and order. The only reason I'm doing this is because I want people to get this report. I want them to understand the genetics and I want them to optimise the genetics and make informed decisions around their hormone replacement or their pill or their what nutraceuticals to take, whether you should take them with you should take black organic seed oil, goodness knows what—all of these things that we can do to optimise our pathway. So I'm going to be linking to that in the show notes that Dr. Mansoor's company has this report now. And you can find out exactly what you should do and how to optimise your your actual personal hormone situation.

Dr. Mansoor, is there anything you wanted to add there?

Dr Mansoor: Well, Lisa, shortly, the short answer, no. A little longer than the short answer is to emphasise what you've just said. This is about empowerment. It is the empowerment of being informed, being informed about your unique predisposition. What is your operating manual, making your more normative choices, if you will, of these cascades? And then how do you optimise the things that you want to do and the things you don't want to do. And it is this empowerment that we really want. It's not about negating any choices you have. It is rather simply about empowering you to either make healthier choices, or when you make certain choices, you make them informed about the limitations of those choices, and then you do your best to mitigate any consequences or implications thereof.

And then I will end with one very quick note. As you've said, you know, we've emphasised the ladies here and the woman viewing this, but it is as important to the men and I will give you a very quick example. How many men are going through that man no pause period. I'm 48. I can tell you a thing or two about that. But how many men have come to me having felt that they were declining in their muscle mass and declining in their performance in, you know, both in the bedroom and out of the bedroom and everything else? And they thought that testosterone was the magic fix. And what they did was they went and they were prescribed in good meaning testosterone, only to find that upon taking the testosterone, they were becoming more and more estrogenised. Right. Because remember, even when you take testosterone that same Cyp19a1, that same aromatase is going to convert some of that testosterone into estrogen.

And men that Cyp19a1 gene comes in three different versions. A version that is going to convert your testosterone into estrogen, much faster, medium speed and slower. And so if you don't know which version of Cyp19a1 you have, you do not know what is your body's natural tendency to convert testosterone into estrogen, which can have so many implications on the choices you make, per going into hormone replacement.

Lisa: Yes. And that's a thing that I'm discussing with my husband and my brothers at the moment, you know, like the implications of testosterone therapy. And it's not—it's a very simplified thing, ‘I'll just take testosterone, and I'll take a heck of a lot of it because I want more muscles’. It's not. And there are a lot of men doing that. And it works for some, and it doesn't work for others because of this very intricate knowledge that we need to have before we make these decisions.

So Dr.Mansoor, I think that is a brilliant place to leave it. Thank you, once again, so much for your knowledge, for your skill at teaching such a very complicated subject. And I hope we didn't lose you guys and girls out there listening along the way. Listen to it again, if we did. But make sure you go and get your hormone report done. I think that is the key, because then you will know what to do. And we can help you interpret that so you don't need to learn all of this. You just need to know what you need to know.

Dr Mansoor, thank you once again.

Dr Mansoor: It's been an honor.

Lisa: It’s been an honor to have you again.

Dr. Mansoor: Always Lisa, thank you very much.

Lisa: Wow, wow, wow. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dr. Mansoor. It's a shame he had to go off. I could have talked for another few hours, at least with Dr.Mansoor. I just love the information that he gives, the passion that he brings to his project. So it was just absolutely an honor to have Dr. Mansoor on the show. And I hope you found that a real interest.

Now if you if your interest is piqued and you want to get your hormones tested, if you want to know whether you're a male or female, if you're a male, reach out to me, lisa@lisatamati.com and I'll send you to the right place. If you're a female who wants to get your report done, there is a link in the show notes. And the reason why we've done that separately for the men and the women is because we're going to be doing another episode on the male hormone report. But if you're already wanting to jump on that, please just do reach out to me and I can help you there.

But ladies out there, if you're wanting to know what your genetic profile is, in regards to your hormones need to get this tested, then there is a link in the show notes that you can go to, in order that test. What their DNA company will then do was we'll send out a test kit to you, wherever you are in the world. And you put some saliva into this test kit and you return it to them. Now this process does take about six weeks, depending, give or take, depending on the COVID situation, obviously.

And once that information is in, then what you can do—you'll be notified of that, I will be notified of that. You can book a session with me to have an interpretation, consultation about your genetics, and how to optimise your situation and what you need to be aware of and any other red flags that may come up. We'll be able to talk about, you know, hormone replacement or the pill or what supplements you should be taking or not taking it as the case may be. So if you're wanting to do that, the consultation is separate in the price to the test. So just so you know.

First step though is to go to that link, order the test, wait for six weeks, get the results. And once you have the results, then you can book a session with me just reach out to me lisa@lisatamati.com and I'll send you the link to make a booking for a consult with me. And we can go from there. The consult with me may cost $190. So you're all up to date on what is involved and how that whole process works.

But this is sort of game changing information and stuff that you really need to know if you want to mitigate some of the downstream consequences of getting it wrong. Especially if you're on the pill and you want to know what your risk factors are. If you suspect that you have estrogen toxicity or estrogen dominance, if you suspect that you have the inflammatory estrogen problems that Dr. Mansoor was talking about, then you want to get this checked. Or if you're like me on wanting to go and buy medical hormone replacement therapy at the other end of the scale when you're going through menopause or you're having menopausal problems, then these are you know, this is key sort of information to know. So check that out all the results, all the information is there in the show notes. And if you've got any questions just reach out to me at lisa@lisatamati.com.

I do appreciate you guys. I love doing this show. I have some fantastic guests. The information that we provide is next level because the guests I managed to get on and next level. And I do my utmost to keep up with some of these great minds. And it takes days and days and sometimes weeks of research prior to these interviews, for me to be up to speed on every area of science that I cover in these interviews, so is a heck of a lot of work that goes into what I do here. And I do really appreciate you guys giving us a rating and review.

We are going to be having a Patreon page shortly. If you want to support us in our work here at the podcast. You know, we're going to have a Patreon page where you'll be able to donate a few dollars a month in order to help the show keep running because it is a labor of love. I can tell you that much. And it's been doing that now for five and a half years providing really valuable information and giving you guys real cutting edge because it's the sort of information that I wish I'd had five years ago when I was facing dramas with mum or my own situations with my health or recently with my father, this is the stuff I go and find the people to share the information after I've been through a journey, and usually after the fact unfortunately.

So this is really about preventative health. This is about optimising your performance. This is about helping you be the fittest, strongest, best version of yourself that you can be. And I really appreciate you listening to the podcast, to you sharing it and letting others know about it if you find this content valuable. So thanks once again and we'll see you again next week.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Your hormones play a big role in how your body functions. And so, hormone imbalance signs can cause health issues. Many women live hectic lives and forget to adequately take care of themselves, leading to imbalances in their estrogen levels. Unfortunately, conventional medicine seems to focus on invasive solutions without addressing the root causes of hormonal imbalance. Functional gynecology, which integrates a holistic, whole-body approach to treatment, can help women find effective solutions for their well-being.

In this episode, Dr Tabatha Barber talks about how functional gynecology works to help patients with estrogen dominance and shares hormone imbalance signs common among women. She also discusses the importance of self-care and why women often prioritise others over themselves. Finally, she talks about the current systemic issues that plague the field of medicine. Through functional gynecology, Dr Tabatha believes that patients can overcome these challenges and live truly healthy lives.

Tune in to the full episode if you want to learn more about functional gynecology and hormonal health for women!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how estrogen is metabolised by the different organs in your body. 2. Learn more about how using medications can cause unwanted side effects and why women need more holistic alternatives. 3. Discover how functional gynecology adopts a natural approach to women’s healthcare.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #122: Dr Sam Shay – The Ten Pillars of Health + #187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + #196: Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + #212: Biohacking for a Healthier and Longer Life with Dave Asprey * Boulder Longevity Institute * Connect with Dr Tabatha: Website | Email | Facebook | Instagram * Tune in to Dr Tabatha’s Functional Gynecologist Podcast and learn more about hormone imbalance signs and non-invasive approaches in healthcare.

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Episode Highlights [05:50] Dr Tabatha's Beginnings * Dr Tabatha got into a lot of trouble during her teenage years, which resulted in her dropping out of high school and getting pregnant. * Her experience as a pregnant teenager made her realise the daily struggles of girls like her. * She learned the importance of living an authentic life in the pursuit of fulfilment. Dr Tabatha thus commits to enabling similar opportunities for other women. * She now practices a functional approach in medicine. This allows her to take care of patients without surgical interventions.

[08:56] Working Hard to be a Doctor * Dr Tabatha turned to her faith in her times of struggle. She also drew inspiration from her parents’ work ethic. * By envisioning how she wanted to be as a person, she told herself that it was all worth it. * As a female physician, she has to work twice as hard as her male counterparts. But she realised that abusing her body was breaking her. * So, Dr Tabatha wants to help women understand that their purpose, goals and dreams change as they grow. * To be happy, they have to be authentic to themselves and what they want out of their lives.

[17:21] The Importance of Self-Care for Women * The pressures of modern life push women to sacrifice their personal well-being in pursuit of success. * This line of thinking makes women lose confidence when it comes to finding solutions for their own problems. They opt to persist despite their suffering. * Many women think that self-care is selfish and indulgent. So, they don't give it as much importance as it deserves. * In truth, taking care of yourself means that you're better able to take care of others. Self-care is essential if you want to help your loved ones. * No one else will put you first, so make sure to take care of yourself first. In the same way, we should support each other in prioritising and taking care of ourselves.

[22:10] Female Hormonal Health * Most advice on hormonal health focuses on how to avoid the discomfort that comes from periods. * Unfortunately, many women are taught to treat these processes as annoyances that need to be suppressed. * All women need to be aware of their metabolism and their energy requirements to stay at peak health. * Making the effort to learn about your hormones and hormone imbalance signs can help you better understand your specific health needs as a woman.

[24:27] Birth Control Pills * Hormone pills seem to fix hormone imbalance signs, but they do so by interrupting the chemical signals between your brain and ovaries. * Issues that your birth control pills suppress tend to resurface once you stop taking them. * Without addressing the root causes of hormone imbalance signs, pills do not offer lasting resolutions for this problem. * Birth control pills are also linked to an increased risk of autoimmune diseases, leaky gut, and breast cancer.

[29:53] Hormone Imbalance Signs * Hormonal imbalance has acute and long-term effects. Therefore, it’s important to have them managed by a professional. * We make three forms of estrogen, with several organs involved in the processing and eventual elimination of this hormone. * Aging also impacts the hormone imbalance by reducing egg production and progesterone release. * Dr Tabatha discusses further details of more causes and hormone imbalance signs that lead to abnormal accumulation and how you can address them with alternative medicine in the full episode.

[39:42] Maintaining Hormonal Balance * Traditional gynecologists tend to rely on surgery and birth control pills as their go-to treatment options. * A functional approach can target the various root causes of hormone imbalance signs. * Treatments can include increasing fibre intake, reducing alcohol consumption, and taking steps to protect your gut microbiome.

[45:23] The Dangers of Exposure to Increased Level of Estrogen * As we increase the use of birth control pills, the waste we produce also causes water pollution. * Plastics in our environment also act as xenoestrogens or fake estrogens. * Because these pollutants exist in our water supply, the estrogen levels of men are increasing too. * There’s also a noticeable change in children’s bodies compared to a few decades ago.

[49:21] Fighting the System * The traditional system of medicine is strenuous and draining for both doctors and patients. Functional medicine allows both doctors and patients to gain better healthcare. * However, patients should not vent their frustrations on their doctors, as they are also victims of a broken system. * We need to keep advocating for a more holistic approach to medicine, especially in gynecology.

[54:00] Dr Tabatha's Struggles * Dr Tabatha was repeatedly told that her health conditions required increasingly invasive medical intervention. * She had thyroid issues during young adulthood, and doctors kept recommending her the same medicine. Her symptoms only improved when she fixed her diet. * The same patterns of recommending surgery occurred when she had a back injury during exercise and developed a ruptured disc. * In reality, functional medicine has provided an alternative that kept her healthy all these years.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘As a female physician, you have to do double the amount to prove your worth than a male does.’

‘Why aren’t they happy? It’s because they really aren’t being true and authentic to themselves and what they want out of their life.’

‘Self-care is selfless, and it’s necessary.’

‘Periods should not be miserable. Periods should be a mild inconvenience. And we should know why we’re feeling the different weeks and why.’

“[Birth control pills] shut down the communication between your brain and your ovaries… and gives you a fake period.’

‘Men do not get their body parts removed the way women do.’

‘Our bodies were created to heal. You need to remove the impedance. You need to support, and replace, and replenish. And things will go back into balance.’

‘You have to have time to rejuvenate, and restore, and heal all the damage you’ve done during the day.’

About Dr Tabatha Dr Tabatha Barber is a triple board-certified OB/GYN and an advocate for functional gynecology, which introduces a holistic and multidisciplinary approach to women's health. She hosts The Functional Gynecologist Podcast, where she helps women use natural choices on diet, lifestyle, and environment to gain control over their health.

Dr Tabatha struggled with health and personal problems during her youth, including pregnancy at age 17. After delivering her baby, she encountered problems with her thyroid and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis. She was able to understand her condition after completing medical school. Her experiences resolved her to help other women with similar struggles.

Her hectic schedule as a physician made her adopt an unhealthy lifestyle, eventually leading to more health problems. What seemed like a hamstring injury turned out to be a herniated disc in her spine. After an initial surgery to correct her condition, orthopedics said that her condition will only worsen and that she would need more surgery in the future.

Determined to find another approach to healing, Dr Tabatha focused on learning as much as possible on functional medicine. She now dedicates herself to helping women learn how to overhaul their lives through self-care and healthy habits.

Learn more about functional gynecology at Dr Tabatha’s website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can consider functional medicine more for their health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show.
*Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional
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We are regularly exposed to toxic heavy metals, from uranium used in war weapons to lead in our food, burning coal and even vaccines. Exposure to these toxins leads to a lot of fatal diseases, such as cancer. How does our detox system flush them out, and what is the role of amino acids in it?

Dr David Minkoff joins us in this episode to explain how heavy metals harm us and how to detoxify our bodies. He also talks about the role heavy metals play in the formation of cancer, the importance of amino acids in our body and why not all proteins are created equal.

If you want to know more about the science behind heavy metal detoxing amino acids and protein, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching. You can also join our free live webinar on runners' warm-up to learn how a structured and specific warm-up can make a massive difference in how you run.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. You will learn about heavy metal detoxing and safe ways to do it. 2. Discover how environmental influences and toxins lead to cancer. 3. Learn more about the impacts of being deficient in amino acids in protein.

Resources * Visit LifeWorks Wellness Center to learn more about natural medicine. * Metal-Free from BodyHealth * If you live in Australia, get BodyHealth products such as PerfectAmino, Body Detox Oral Spray, Full Spectrum Digestive Support and more from Stoneagehealth. Email lisa@lisatamati.com for products if you live outside Australia. * The Search for the Perfect Protein by Dr David Minkoff

Episode Highlights [06:28] How Dr Minkoff's Story Started * Dr Minkoff did triathlons and was interested in performance and health. * His wife, a nurse, investigated the mercury in the amalgam fillings in her teeth. * Mercury is volatile and is liquid at room temperature. It is very toxic and can make you sick when aerosolised. * Dr Minkoff's wife went to a dentist to get her fillings removed. The mercury aerosolised, and she began showing symptoms of mercury toxicity. * His neighbour practised natural dentistry and referred him to a doctor in Seattle. After undergoing the advised detoxification protocols, his wife got better.

[17:32] How Can We Get Ourselves Detoxified? * The body keeps an electrical balance. * If you want to detoxify, the mineral balance in your body has to be good. * The body will hold on to toxic metals and will not detoxify well if there is magnesium, zinc and selenium depletion. * The amino acid levels in your blood should also be good because all detox systems are based on amino acids. * If the liver is not healthy, a chelator or binder might move the heavy metal to another critical organ, such as the brain.

[22:14] What Are Safe Ways to Get Detoxified? * Chlorella is a good chelator. It helps bind the mercury in food and has nutritional contents such as chlorophyll. * Activated charcoal is a binder you can use as a substitute for chlorella.

[24:53] How Does Heavy Metal Exposure Lead to Cancer? * A healthy cell makes energy by taking oxygen and food into the mitochondria. It extracts energy from food and produces energy molecules (ATP) for the survival of the cell. * When drugs, chemicals or infections get into the mitochondria, it cannot use oxygen to make energy. * When a cell makes energy anaerobically, it generates only minimal amounts of ATP. In this case, the cell will either die or transform. * Growth factor genes are turned on to get a lot of sugar into the cell and make lots of ATP. * Anti-cancer strategies are working on blocking transport or utilisation of sugar in the cell.

[33:01] What Can We Do to Prevent Cancer? * Cells turn cancerous due to heavy metal and toxin exposure, as well as poor food practices. * Consuming ‘clean’ or organic food is essential. * Vitamin D is the best anti-cancer drug. * Sunlight hitting the body will activate vitamin D. * Glyphosate, a herbicide, blocks the process of conversion needed to activate vitamin D.

[38:20] What’s Vitamin D Got to Do with Cancer? * Vitamin D functions for immunity. It is more of a hormone than a vitamin. * High levels of vitamin D lowers the risk of multiple sclerosis, cancer, osteoporosis and hypertension. * Vitamin D is not the be-all and end-all of cancer prevention. Low levels of selenium, vitamin A, zinc and amino acid can also cause cancer. * When you get enough nutrition, you have more resilience against toxic factors.

[41:11] What Is the Importance of Amino Acids in Protein? * Our bodies are made up of macronutrients: carbohydrates, fats and proteins. * Amino acids are the basic unit of proteins, and they are made up of nitrogen. * There are 22 amino acids in the body, eight of which are essential. It means the body cannot produce them, so you need to obtain them from your diet. * Almost everybody has low levels of amino acids. A lack of amino acids will result in a lack of protein. * Specific body processes cannot work if there is an amino acid deficiency. Listen to the full episode to learn how it affects body repair, weight loss, immunity and athletic performance!

[1:05:11] Why Are Acid Blockers Harmful? * Pepsin is an enzyme in the stomach that initiates protein digestion. The stomach needs to be very acidic to activate pepsin. * If a drug blocks stomach acid production, the pepsin won’t be activated. * You won't get the benefit from the proteins you are eating and absorb key minerals if you can’t digest protein. * Stomach acid also kills the bacteria in the food we eat, especially raw food. * If bacteria in food doesn't get killed in the stomach, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth can occur. * Listen to the full episode for more information on how you can improve your health amid the heavy metals in our environment!

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘The search for the perfect protein was really my search for what is the perfect thing that works better than meat and fish and eggs by a factor of at least three to six times that you could take as a supplement’.

‘Medicine is not the answer. Lifestyle’s the answer. That's nutrition, and it's what you said. It's sleep, and it's relationships, and it's good nutrition, and it's organic food, and it's sunshine, and it's finding what makes you happy and the purpose. Without those things, you drugs aren't going to fix you’.

‘I think we do need appropriate supplementation, good organic food and good exercise. Good sleep patterns — all those basic things that we often also neglect to have a healthy human’.

‘You've got a bleeding ulcer? Okay, take the acid blocker. Your stomach heals. But then figure out what happened — was it an infection — or what was wrong and get off of it because long-term, it's bad for you’.

‘The more we buy the things that aren't good for us, the more we support the industries that are doing things that aren't good for us’.

‘You're going to pay. You're just choosing to pay later and down the track with worse consequences, or you're paying to be preventative. You're paying for good health’.

‘You have to be able to orient your life toward nutrition and supplementation and detoxification and healthy living’.

About Dr Minkoff In 1995, Dr David Minkoff’s wife became ill. Not accepting her physicians’ ‘We really can’t help her except for symptomatic medication’ conclusion, Dr Minkoff and his wife went on a search to find the actual underlying cause of her condition. This led him out of his emergency medicine practice and into complementary and alternative medicine to find the answers.

In the process, he gained expertise in fields like anti-aging medicine, integrative cancer care, Lyme disease treatment, hormone replacement therapy, functional medicine, energy medicine, homeopathy and optimum nutrition.

The answers he found were soon in demand when others learned of his wife’s return to good health. In response to this, he and his wife, Sue Minkoff, RN, established LifeWorks Wellness Center in 1997.

It quickly became one of the largest comprehensive complementary and alternative medicine clinics in the US. The demand for the products and protocols he discovered became a catalyst for founding BodyHealth.com, a nutrition company that manufactures and distributes these cutting-edge solutions.

Dr Minkoff is a doctor of complementary and alternative medicine, a board-certified pediatrician and an Infectious Disease fellow. He also is an avid athlete himself and has completed 43 Ironman Triathlons. Dr Minkoff has helped many pro athletes improve their performance. He tries to set an example for others so that they can enjoy a life free of pain and full of energy.

If you want to learn more about Dr Minkoff and his work on proteins, you may visit his website.

Link to the Perfectaminos tablets by Dr Minkoff. Buy them here: https://www.optimoz.com.au/products/map-master-amino-acid-pattern?aff=62 To the Perfectamino powder https://www.optimoz.com.au/products/map-amino-acid-xp-powder?aff=62 Link to the electrolytes mentioned in the podcast https://www.optimoz.com.au/products/perfectamino-electrolytes?aff=62 Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript

Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Timati: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. This week I have a fabulous interview. Gosh, it was great. It was a long one. And it's a really, really good one, with Dr David Minkoff, who is just an absolute legend. He is the author of the book The Search for the Perfect Protein. And this is all about amino acids, how your body utilises proteins, why you're probably protein deficient, all the diseases and ailments that it can help with and getting the right combination and explains just stuff that would absolutely blow your mind. It's an amazing book that's really changed the way I look at amino acids for sure and integrating them in my life.

Now, Dr Minkoff is also the founder of the LifeWorks Wellness Centre. He has a huge practice in Florida, in the USA, with over 50 staff, and he does complementary and alternative medicine. And he's an expert who has worked with many of the world's top athletes. He is himself a finisher of 43 Ironmans, including eight Hawaiian Ironmans. He is, I think, 70 years old or— and he’s still doing Ironmans. He's got another one coming up in a couple of weeks. So just an incredible man, both from an athletic point of view and from a medical point of view and is an author and speaker on these really important topics.

In the show we get into heavy metal detoxing, we get into the science behind dealing with cancer, we look at amino acids, we look at toxic environment and we look at the state of our medical world, all of these issues we get into with this really in-depth conversation. So, I hope you do enjoy it.

Before we head over to Dr Minkoff, just want to remind you, please give us a rating and review on the show, if you haven't already. And make sure you subscribe. You can always reach out to me at lisa@lisatimati.com, if you've got any questions that come up from these episodes, or you want some advice on a certain topic around what we've been discussing, then please reach out to us. And give us a feedback on the podcast as well.

And if you enjoy the content, please share it with your friends and family. It's only through networks and people—ground level movements are people sharing good information—that we can get this sort of stuff out into the world, this great information that we'd love to share.

Finally, I just want to let you know I'm taking on a small number of clients on one-on-one at the moment with consulting around health with that right mindset, if you've got a health journey that you're on, if you're struggling, if you need help navigating your health, then please reach out to me. I have a huge knowledge base and a huge network of people that I can see you to.

If you're needing help, and you can't work out, if you've got a medical problem where you can't work it out in the normal system and you don't know where to turn to please knock on our door, we might be able to help you. Obviously got a huge background in brain injuries, but also in biohacking in general and health optimisation as well as the whole mindset piece of the puzzle which I love sharing and teaching as well.

So, I work with only a very few people at a time because I like to be able to invest time with people and my brain gets occupied with just a few cases, because I tend to go off and if I don't know something, I will go and find it. So, I don't profess to know everything in the world, but I usually know someone who does. So, if you want to work with me, then please reach out.

And the last thing also we are holding every week a webinar either it's on epigenetics one week in on it and the second week it will be on our running programs and how to increase your running speed, how to improve your performance, how to do all that without avoiding injuries and burnout. So, if you want to join us for our webinars for the epigenetics webinar, go to epigenetics.lisatimati.com. That's epigenetics.lisatamati.com and register there for the free webinar. It'll be on a Tuesday in New Zealand time 12:30 and the alternate weeks we're doing it at the same time Tuesday 12:30 New Zealand time for our running masterclass, how to run faster, longer be stronger without burnout and injuries.

So, without further ado, over to the show with Dr David Minkoff.

Lisa: Welcome to the show everybody. I am super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin. I've got Dr David Minkoff, who is one of my role models and heroes, and I'm finally got him on my show. And I'm very, very excited to have you, Dr David.

You're sitting in Florida, and you are an Ironman athlete. Let's start there for starters. You've done 43 Ironmans and you're about to do your 44th. And you've actually been to New Zealand, we just discussed your time in New Zealand and it rained a lot, unfortunately.

Dr David Minkoff: The cold was worse than the rain.

Lisa: The cold. Yes. Lake Taupo, for example, can be very, very cold, the water’s just absolutely freezing. But yes.

So, Dr Dr Minkoff, you have an amazing reputation and you’ve recently written a book called The Search for the Perfect Protein, that for me was an absolute game changer and a real eye opener. And something—as an athlete, I think, unfortunately, I've sort of finished my competitive career now. But if I'd known that information 20 years ago, oh my gosh, what could I've done? Sort of information. So, I'm really, really keen to share a little bit about the book and your background.

But let's start firstly with your story, your life story. You were an emergency physician. Can you pick up the story there and just tell us how you got into what you're actually doing now?

Dr David: Yes, so I didn't really—I was doing triathlons and I was interested in performance and health. But it was sort of a crude viewpoint. My wife's a nurse, and she was always investigating things. And one of the things that she investigated was that she had a lot of mercury amalgam fillings in her teeth. And she learned that the mercury is volatile. Mercury at room temperature is a liquid. Like no other metal is a liquid at room temperature. Like lava, you got to heat it up to a couple thousand degrees, but mercury boils at only 110 degrees Fahrenheit. So hot cup of coffee or soup would be like 140, 150, 160. And it's an amalgam.

So, what they do is they take liquid mercury, and they add to a zinc, silver, copper. And so, it's—the things aren't really amalgamated together. They're separate things that bond. So, if you add heat, Mercury can aerosolise if it's hot, and it will come off. And there are lots of studies in, they put fillings in sheep, and just with their chewing, the mercury gets volatile and it gets in the air and they swallow it, they breathe it. And then they sacrifice them three months later, and they find the Mercury's in their kidneys, it’s in their brain, and it's all over the place.

And Mercury is very toxic. You took one amalgam filling, so, it's about a half a gram of mercury. And you put it in a 10-acre lake, like you grounded up real fine so that you dissolved it in a 10-acre lake. And the natural resources guy came, the Fish and Wildlife Association came to test the levels of mercury in the water. They would put a fish advisory on it, like you can't eat the fish in that lake, the Mercury concentration’s too high because it would be toxic to humans.

Lisa: And that's one filling.

Dr David: So, one filling in 10 acres.

Lisa: It’s equivalent to one filling.

Dr David: Now the square meters of a body is maybe one square meter, it's not very—one and a half. It isn't very much. So, you get these things coming off constantly. And the more you have, the more load you will get, and they can make you sick.

So, she decided that she wanted to get them out. And this was back in the middle 90s, and the dentist that she went to wasn't really proficient in doing this. And he said, ‘Sure, I'll take him out’, and he takes a high-speed drill, and he drills him out and he aerosolises it all over the place with no protection for her. And it went all over the place.

Now, subsequent to that, she'd started to feel bad. She got problems with her thyroid and problems with her liver and the doctors who saw her thought that she was at some kind of an autoimmune condition. But they didn't associate it with mercury. I didn't either. And they just thought, they didn't know what to do with her. She's a nurse. She's smart. She's a triathlete as well. And then eventually, it got to the point where one day she woke up and she had trouble lifting her arm, and her glute muscle was weak. And it looked like she had some neurological involvement. One of the doctors thought, ‘Well, maybe this is a mess’. And we didn't know what to do.

She's a nurse and she has a home healthcare nursing business. And next door, a guy moved in. And the marquee said, ‘Natural Dentistry’. And one day when I was going to pick her up from work, he was walking out of his office to his car, and I stopped him and I introduced myself. And I asked him, ‘What is natural dentistry’? And he said, ‘Well, we're dentists that believe that the mouth is actually part of the body’. It's not a separate thing. And that you shouldn't do things in the mouth that you wouldn't do any place else. He says, ‘For example, you'd never use mercury in a wound yet’, or for a while there used to have this stuff called mercurial, which was mercury liquid, but they found that the mercury—if you were putting it on a wound, it's a good disinfectant but it also will get you mercury toxic. They used to put thimerosal, which is ethyl mercury in your contact lens solutions.

Lisa: Oh, my God!

Dr David: But they took it out because they found that you could put this stuff in your eyes, and you could get toxic from the mercury that's in the solution. So, he said, ‘We wouldn't do that’. And then he told me about some other things, and I said, ‘Well listen to this story’. So, I tell him her story. And he says, ‘Oh, she's mercury toxic’?

Lisa: Oh, well...

Dr David: And he said, ‘There’s no one in this town that's going to help you because nobody knows about this, or they're just not aware of it. But there's a doctor in Seattle, and he trains doctors in diagnosing and treating this with a natural kind of approach’.

So, I flew to Seattle, I spent some time with him, I learned his methodology. And I came back and tested her and she indeed was mercury toxic. And I did the protocols that he taught me, and she got better.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr David: Over four or five months, she got better and her symptoms went away. She was fine.

Lisa: No MS, no all the other things started to disappear when she started to—So what are the some of the...

Dr David: Wait Let me just look. Let me just take it one more step.

So, then we had friends that were sort of watching this whole thing happen. And they said, ‘You know, I've got migraine headaches, and I've got rheumatoid arthritis, and I've got all cervical, I've got that. Will you help me’?

The emergency room work is shift work. So, it's a seven in the morning till seven at night or seven at night to seven in the morning, three days a week, maybe four. And I had some time and she had an extra office in her nursing business. And so, I said, ‘I'll be there Thursday afternoon, why don't you come in? I've got a success of one. I'm not sure I know what I'm doing. This will be—we'll just play, we'll just see what happens’.

Anyway, it started to work. And pretty soon it was I was being inundated when we renovated a space next to her office, 3000 square feet and we set up shop as a natural medicine clinic and I got out of the emergency room. And we got to be very busy with all these kinds of things.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr David: Oh, that was 1997. And here, 20 years later, now we have a huge clinic, lots of bright, 50 staff and people come from all over the world for—most of its chronic medical problems. They have cancer or Lyme disease or chronic fatigue or MS or Parkinson's or—they've been around the block. Many doctors, no solutions. So that's mostly what we do now. Occasionally, I saw a couple professional football players today but mostly it's...

Lisa: It's very sick people. So, I just wish you went down the road from where I live and I can come and get the help that... Because your approach—I mean, I've listened to everything that you've got out there and your approach just resonates completely with me. You've gone into the function where natural medicines and you're dealing with people with chronic diseases.

So, just following on now from the mercury story and how you helped your wife and then onwards. Heavy metals are a big problem in our world, aren't they? How do we get exposure? Okay, amalgams obviously in fillings, but I don't think people understand that there's mercury, cadmium, arsenic, thallium—goodness knows what else. There's lots of things that we can be...

Dr David: Lead, aluminum.

Lisa: Lead, aluminum, yes. We're being exposed to toxins and heavy metals, 24/7, and now horrible environment that we're creating for ourselves and our modern world. And our bodies just weren't made for this. were they?

Dr David: That’s right. That's right. I mean, you look at Fukushima, the amount of—I mean uranium is a heavy metal to heavy, it's one of the heaviest metals. So, you got scads of this released into the ocean and into the air, it flows around. When the Iraq War was going on, they used uranium depleted warheads because they were making tanks that regular warheads wouldn't penetrate.

But if you put a depleted uranium warhead on that missile, when that thing hit the tank, the temperatures were so hot that it would penetrate the tank. And so there was— I don't know how many, thousands and thousands of pounds of these things were scattered all over Iraq through two wars, which released a lot of uranium and a fair number of—I know, at least American soldiers started getting heavy metal toxicity and when they were tested, they had high levels of uranium in their body.

So, it is all over and we have sort of dumped this onto the planet, leaded gasoline on the planet for 50 or 60 years saturated the countryside. So, vegetables grown have high lead levels, and it's in the ocean. So, most fish have lots of mercury. And we—our bodies are exposed to it. And we absorb it, we breathe it, cold burning produces a lot of mercury, unless it's filtered right. Some vaccines still have mercury.

Lisa: Do they still have mercury in them? In the time when they’re sold?

Dr David: Yes! So...

Lisa: Yes. And we're giving this to our children and we’re wondering why the heck they've got autism and ADHD and cancers and things that can be a knock on. It's very hard to correlate this but I heard in one of your talks, you were talking, I think, back when you're a young doctor, there was like 1 in 250,000 kids had autism or some great number. And now it was like 1 in 40 or something ridiculous.

We're doing something massively wrong in our environment. And we seem to just bumble along as if everything's fine. And yet, we've got all these chronic diseases that are knock offs, or knock-ons from all of these things and the toxicity that we're involved with.

So how can we—if we're looking at the heavy metal situation, if we don't have access to you, because we don't live in America, and we can't come to Florida, which is a real shame. How do we get ourselves detoxified from some of these heavy metals? Or how can we test for it?

Dr David: So I think, to detox someone from heavy metals, it's really important that you make sure that they're in a position where they can be detoxified. So, the body tries to keep electrical balance, you have to have as many negatives as you have positives.

Many people are mineral depleted, they don't have enough magnesium, or zinc, or selenium. Okay? And so those are all positively charged metals, like its mercury and lead. And if you get someone who's depleted in these things, and then you try to detoxify them, some of the things that are holding on, that the body's holding on to, will be the bad heavy metals, if it doesn't have the good minerals in those places. And so, the body doesn't detoxify very well when you try to pull it off when it's mineral depleted. So, you have to make sure that they're mineral good. You have to make sure that their gut is good, they're not full of parasites, and mercury, and yeast, and bad digestion. And because then they have a hard time.

They have to make sure that their amino acid levels in their blood are okay because if they're not okay, all the detox systems are based on amino acids. And so, if you don't have that sort of ready and waiting, you can get into trouble. You can try to move a metal, which the body is stuck somewhere that it feels is relatively safe. It's in the fat somewhere. It's at the periphery of an organ, and it isn't really causing toxicity.

But then if you give a binder, like a chelator, when these things bind heavy metals, and you pull it off of there. And it gets to the person's liver and the livers already overloaded with the plastics and the Tylenol and the rest of the stuff they’re taking...

Lisa: Yes, the crap we’re taking.

Dr David: It won't move it out. And it will circulate around and it can end up someplace worse.

Lisa: Like your brain or your heart.

Dr David: Like I had a patient here not too long ago, she went to a doctor. He did a test on heavy metals for her, she was indeed very high in lead. But he didn't understand that you have to set them up—their hormones, their gut, their nutrients have to be sufficient so that you can detoxify them, and she wasn't set up. And so he put her in an IV room and he gave her an IV medicine, which will bind lead. And she ended up pretty much—I don't know if you have that expression in New Zealand — she's a bag lady. Like she wears earphones, she listened to religious music, she carried two paper bags around, and she was really like, totally out of it.

And she had been one of the most successful realtors in the area. And she turned into someone that couldn't even really take care of herself, talks to herself, and she was—her brain, the lead in her bones got transferred to her brain.

Lisa: Oh my gosh.

Dr David: And it took us a couple years to get her to the point where we could get the lead out of her brain and that she could actually wake up and get normal. But it was a medical error at the original time.

Lisa: And this is very, a dangerous—like because it would be EDTA IV, wouldn't it?

Dr David: Right. Right.

Lisa: Because I've got a case. So, my mum who had an aneurysm four years ago, and I've rehabilitated her back from massive brain injury to being now completely normal. And I've written a book on it, called Relentless, which I'll send you a copy of. And one of the things that I identified was mercury poisoning. And I've been too scared, though, to go and get EDTA chelation in her case because she's a 79-year-old with fatty liver disease, kidney.

So, for someone like, who doesn't have a doctor who is a real expert in the area, to do something like this, I can sit her body up the best I can with the right vitamins and the right minerals, and selenium and zinc and things and vitamin Ds and all of those things that are have here on. Is there any—and vitamin C is a big player.

Is there anything that I can give her without—obviously, you don't want to do something like that and cause a really, a big detox reaction. And with someone who's fragile should say, is there a safe way of doing it?

Dr David: An easy thing, chlorella is a pretty good chelator.

Lisa: Oh, brilliant. I had her on that.

Dr David: Chlorella. So, you could add like, three, four capsules of chlorella with each meal.

Lisa: Wow. Okay.

Dr David: It will help find the mercury that's in the food. And it's not really absorbed. And the chlorophyll in there is good for her and you can just start to tease it out with that

Lisa: Very smart.

Dr David: There is a product called Metal-Free—I have a nutrition company—that we make, it's called Metal-Free. It's very safe, it's natural. It's a spray. So, you can start with a little bit, and in someone like her, start with just one spray underneath her tongue once a day. Do it for a week or 10 days, she's doing okay, she’s not getting sick with it, she's tolerating it. Okay, you could go to two sprays. And you could just tease it up, where it's done slowly, over six to 12 months. You can use that with the chlorella. You can get her to get the heavy metal start coming out. And that's very workable, and a lot of people do that.

Lisa: What about activated charcoal? Is it another good chelator? Or is it...

Dr David: Charcoal? It would be a substitute for chlorella. It's a binder.

Lisa: It’s one or the other.

Dr David: Yes, I think the chlorella is better because there is some nutritional content. Charcoal just binds sort of randomly everything. Whereas with chlorella...

Lisa: Yes, you can get mineral deficiencies too if you have too much of, say activated charcoal, couldn't you?

Dr David: Right.

Lisa: Yes. Okay, that's a really good sort of framework. And I'll link to Dr Minkoff’s website, everyone, so it's bodyhealth.com. And I'll put that in the show notes in the links to those particular products, because I think, you know, there'll be good, safe ways for people who don't have access to a doctor that can do it really safely to start to detoxify themselves.

So, I wanted to move now a little bit. So that's some heavy metal and we touched on it pretty briefly, but it's a major, major problem in—when we're looking at lots of other diseases, the heavy metal can have a massive impact can’t it? So things like MS or Parkinson's or cancers. I heard in one of your interviews saying, on Ben Greenfield's podcasts, many of the cancer patients that you see or most of them have a heavy metal problem, and there's probably a correlation there.

Is it, if we move the discussion towards cancer, would that be one of the first places that you would look for a cancer patient?

Dr David: What happens with cancer and this, this has been known since the 1920s and 30s— a German doctor named Otto Warburg was looking at the biochemistry of what makes a cancer cell different than a healthy cell, or what causes a cancer cell to transform—I mean, a healthy cell to transform into a cancer cell.

And what he discovered is that a healthy cell makes energy by taking the oxygen that you breathe, which eventually gets to the cell and the food that you eat. And those two things go into the little factory in the cell called the mitochondria. And the cell is able to extract the energy from the food and make ATP, which is the energy product particle. And then the cell can live, it can do its job, it can get in nutrients, it can get rid of toxins, it can make proteins, depending on what its job is.

Because the impact of toxins and infections are around us all the time, and now they're at levels that are unheard of. And I think 80 something thousand chemicals in the environment, which have never been tested for safety, and heavy metals, and many people are on many different kinds of medications, which are just different kinds of toxins, really. I mean, an emergency someone might need a medicine, but there’s a long-term solution to a health problem, it's really not the best way to go.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Dr David: And so there are lot of environmental influences, which can—when those drugs or chemicals or infections get into the mitochondria in the cell, lock that mitochondria from being able to use oxygen and food to make energy. And that cell then, when it can't make ATP in enough quantity because when you use oxygen, it can make 38 of these energy particles, each go around. It can also make energy not using oxygen. So that's called anaerobic metabolism,

Lisa: It’s the fermentation, yes.

Dr David: No oxygen. It’s fermentation. You only make two ATPs. It can't live on two ATPs. So, it's got to change it either is going to die or it's going to change. And then if it changes...

Lisa: Does it turn on the oncogenes?

Dr David: It turns, yes, and I don't even really think they're oncogenes. These are normal genes that in a foetus make one cell into a 100 trillion in a full adult. They’re your growth factor genes. They're blood vessel factor genes. And they turn on in an adult person, they're supposed to be on, but they get turned on because this cell now needs lots, and it's the preferred fuel for that cell ends up being sugar. And so, it needs to get a lot of sugar because if it can only make two ATPs on every go around, it's got to be able to get way more sugar in that cell in order to get enough ATP so that it can live. And that's what cancer is.

Lisa: And this is why people with cancer then have these cravings for sugar. And lose a lot of weight very quickly because they're not able to produce and they’re extremely fatigued.

Dr David: Well, they have a very high need for sugar, they have a very high need for sugar. And one of the strategies—the anti-cancer strategies—is to not give them any sugar. Because our own cells could use fat, they can use proteins, but cancer cells prefer sugar.

So, there's a standard medical test done for cancer patients, which is to give them—it’s what is called a PET scan. And the PET scan is sugar IV. Sugar has a radioactive label on it and you can see where does the sugar go. And if let's say a woman's got a breast cancer, the normal cells are eating one unit of sugar and the breast cancer cells are using 25 units of sugar. So, the PET scan shows a 25 where the lump is and it shows a one in the arm, in the brain, and the other breast, or in the kidney, where there's no cancer, because this thing is so rapidly using the sugar that it sucks it up. Well, sometimes that's five times, sometimes it's 10 times, sometimes it's 20 times. The more aggressive the cancer, the higher the metabolism, and the higher the reading on the PET scan. So that tells you what the cancers do and what it's eating.

And then anti-cancer strategies have to be to figure out, can we block that guy from getting sugar or utilising sugar because otherwise it's going to use it and it's going to replicate it, it's going to make more of itself. And then you really you...

Lisa: And I've just done a series actually on in vitamin C, with a number of researchers and scientists, doctors, around intravenous vitamin C. Because I recently had a case with my father who unfortunately passed away in July, with sepsis and I was battling to get intravenous vitamin C for him in the ICU, and I was unable to, they wouldn't let me. Unfortunately. I did win in the end, but by then the sepsis was multiple organ failure and too little too late.

And so, I'm on a bit of a crusade now to get that changed and in support the doctors and scientists that are screaming from the rooftops that we should be using vitamin C, not only for sepsis, but also for things like COVID, there's lots of studies going on, in cancer.

And one of the researchers that I had on last two weeks ago, Professor Margreet Vissers, she has done a lot of study around cancer, vitamin C. And getting the vitamin C—the molecule of vitamin C is very similar to glucose, so the cancer cells can take it up and thinking it's glucose. And if we can get the levels—I think the levels were from memory 350 to 400 micromolar—it can get in there and it can actually kill the cancer cell. Don't quote me on those numbers, people, but listen to the episodes. But it can also stop the tumour growth, the health sector from being switched on that turns that gene off so that the tumour can’t develop its own blood supply. So, I know that that's a really, really powerful intervention for cancers. It's not the obviously the only one.

Keto diet is another, as we mentioned, starving the cancer cells off from the glucose and having that in combination with things like vitamin C. What else is—so that cancers are tuning on these cancer genes, if you like, or these cells are turning cancerous, probably because of our environment, probably because of heavy metals, toxins, bad foods, our food practices, all of these things are making kids a little sort of skyrocket, what can we do to prevent ourselves? I mean, vitamin C is obviously one that I'm big on as a prevention. What else can we do? We can do the heavy metal detoxing in a controlled manner as we spoke about. What else can we do for cancer prevention? Because I'm always about the prevention side.

Dr David: Okay. So, I mean, clean food, organic, super important. The actual best anti-cancer drug is vitamin D.

Lisa: Vitamin D?

Dr David: Yes, there are lots of studies that show that people who have a blood level of vitamin D, between 70 and 90, have half the rates of cancer that people have low vitamin D level, there's no known drug, or medical intervention, or anything known that is that effective.

So, if someone's listening to this, and you don't know what your blood level of vitamin D is, you should go to your doctor or your laboratory and you should get a blood level vitamin D. The levels in America run 30 to 100 is considered normal. In the studies that have been done, if the level is between 70 and 90, in America, for the average person, that means that they're going to be taking about 10,000 units a day of vitamin D3

Lisa: Wow, that's a lot. That's high. Okay, there's no toxicity with that sort of a level of vitamin D?

Dr David: Well, you have to measure it. I mean, at that level, that's the average person that I see. If I put them on 5000, they're running in the 40s. If I put them out on ten thousand, they're running in the, I want them 70 to 90-ish. If they're 65, I'll leave them alone. If they're 95, it's fine.

It's very interesting, because the way you're supposed to get vitamin D isn’t to take it with a capsule, you’re supposed to get it from sunlight. And sunlight hitting the body will convert the molecule into vitamin D and that's how we're supposed to get it. Unfortunately, now, and I think the reason is glyphosate on the planet?

So I'm in Florida, there's 300 days a year of sunshine, we're in a subtropical climate. So, the sun is high enough for most of the year, where the sun should be effective at converting our bodies to make vitamin D. I have tested vitamin D levels, and every patient I have seen for the last 20 years, except for one person, and she was using a tanning bed every day, except for one person, everyone else had a sub therapeutic level of vitamin D. And we’re in Florida, and there's sunshine. Now some people wear sunscreen and then the vitamin D doesn't get converted. But a lot of people don't wear sunscreen and the vitamin D does convert.

Now my own example. So, I am about 12 hours a week outside in the sun unprotected. I swim in an outdoor pool at noon. I ride my bike a lot. I'm outside. And I run a lot, usually without a shirt if it's warm and shorts, so I'm exposed. My vitamin D level unsupplemented is 34.

Lisa: Wow, that's shocking.

Dr David: I have to take 12,500 units every day to keep my level—last time I did it, it was 84. Now this is my theory on this: is this herbicide glyphosate roundup...

Lisa: Hmm, horrible.

Dr David: ...is so prevalent around the world. Something like three quarters of the rain samples will show glyphosate. I have measured thousands of patients for urine levels of glyphosate. I've never tested anyone who is negative for glyphosate.

Lisa: Gosh. That’s shocking.

Dr David: Like never. It’s in our food, it's in our water. We're getting it. And one of the side effects of glyphosate is it blocks the conversion of the sun's ability to produce active vitamin D. And I think that's at least one of the factors that's causing this problem because there's an epidemic of low vitamin D.

Lisa: And vitamin D is so important for your immune system, for your bone health, for hormones, for so many—I think there's no 700 processes in the body or something that it's responsible for. And here's me like I take 5000 IU a day and I'm thinking, I'm really good. And I study functional genomics, when I've discovered that in my genes, for example, because I'm of Maori descent, so native descent, my father was Maori, I have a slightly darker skin tone. I need more vitamin C because my transporters don't do their job very well and I don't get a lot of receptors. So I've been aware of this problem, and I'm taking 5000, bump up. I haven't actually gone and got it tested, I'm probably still deficient, given... And that's someone who's already on vitamin D. So that's a bit of an eye opener. And so how does—what is the mechanism? Why is cancer vitamin D, why is vitamin D so important for cancer?

Dr David: You said, it’s immune function, it's more of a hormone than it is vitamin. It's lots of different things that are really important. And they just noticed this association of cancer incidence versus vitamin D and the people at high levels, they had much less MS and less cancer, and less osteoporosis and less hypertension. So it's really important, it's a single nutrient. Now, there's lots of things that if you're if your selenium level’s low, if your vitamin A level’s low, I mean, these are all things, zinc level’s low, these are all things that are super important. You have low amino acid levels, it’s important in cancer. So it isn't a one-thing thing. But these are things that are measurable.

Like a vitamin D blood test is maybe 25 bucks, it's not expensive. I mean, these are things that regular doctors can order. And, of course, guys who were doing functional medicine or functional nutrition, they can order it. And so—and everyone, we see—I order panels of all this stuff, because you find it virtually everybody isn't getting enough nutrition from the diet that they eat to keep them healthy and well nourished. And they're in a toxic environment where you need more of this stuff, not less. And then if you can normalise these things, then the person is going to have more resilience to this huge toxic factor that we're all living in.

Lisa: Yes, this horrible suit that we're stuck in.

So I wanted to transition now over into your book, The Search for the Perfect Protein because I think this is a good segway coming. Because I didn't understand like, as an athlete, I used to always, and I've done 70,000 kilometres in my lifetime. I've run pretty much every desert there is on the planet, I've done horrific things to my body. And I will always be taking branched-chain amino acids and they certainly helped my performance.

But I'm now starting to understand after reading your book, that they aren't the whole picture. And they are only three of the essential amino acids. And I've got PerfectAmino coming, hopefully today to my house, and I'm super excited because I know I'm protein deficient. I feel that I'm constantly anaemic even I have a good diet and I do everything right. And I know a lot of the athletes and a lot of the woman especially that I work with have are fighting these sorts of battles as well.

Can you tell us what is an amino acid? Why is this absolutely crucial knowledge that people have and why they need to go and buy your book for starters? But what we need to understand about amino acids story?

Dr David: Okay. So if you look at nutrients, there's three things that are called macronutrients, the big ones, okay. There's carbohydrates, and fats, and proteins. Now, all of them are made out of three things, carbon and hydrogen and oxygen. Amino acid, amino in Greek means nitrogen. So amino acids make up protein. So proteins have nitrogen, but carbohydrates and fats don't have nitrogen. Okay?

Now, an amino acid if you think of it, if we use an analogy, like language. So in the English language, there's 26 letters. And you could arrange those letters in different sequences and different lengths to make words. And so, in English language, I don't know, there's 350 or 400,000 words, okay. Some of them are very short, like one letter, like ‘I’ or ‘A’, one letter, some of them are really long.

In amino acid chemistry, the alphabet is these things called amino acids. There's 22 of them, roughly. And so they are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, plus, they have nitrogen, so they're called amino acids. And if you put them in different lengths and sequences, you get proteins. By definition a protein has to have 30 or more amino acids in a chain. There is a hormone in the body, which is just one amino acid, tyrosine. And if you put iodine on there, you get thyroid hormone. So thyroid hormone is made out of amino acid.

Lisa: Wow, tyrosine and iodine.

Dr David: With three to four iodines attached and that’s thyroid

Lisa: Okay, T3, T4. Okay.

Dr David: T3, T4, okay. Glutathione is a well-known antioxidant detoxifier, has three amino acids. So, the body puts those three in the right order, and it makes glutathione.

Lisa: Wow. Super interesting.

Dr David: It gets more complex. Insulin has—I think, I forgot—89 amino acids. And growth hormone has—I don't know—something hundred, hundred and 20 amino acids. So, the sequence of the 22 amino acids has to be just right or it doesn't make the same thing. Every insulin has the same sequence. The skeletal muscle is made up of two proteins. One's called actin, and one's called myosin. Actin has 5600 amino acids per one actin fibre.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr David: So if your body wants to make muscle fibre, you work out, you tear it.

Lisa: That’s a lot of protein.

Dr David: It takes 8600 of these amino acids to make one fibre.

Lisa: Wow. In the right combination?

Dr David: In the right combination. So most of us—so I got injured. I was training for Ironman, and I injured my hamstring. And at the time, I was a vegetarian. Now vegetarians are on low protein diets by definition. They're not eating meat, fish and eggs, that's where the major proteins are that we take in. And beans don't cut it. So, I didn't know this. I'm just a doctor. And I'm a young triathlete. But I think I'm doing the right thing.

So I get injured, and I can't figure out how I can get it healed. I injected it and massaged it and chiropractored it and I did heat treatments and I did everything. Wouldn't get better. And I had a friend who had an amino acid mixture. And he said, ‘Try these’, he was in Europe and he got these things. And he said, ‘Try these’. And I tried those for six weeks, and my hamstring healed, they actually healed. I could do go to a track, do hardcore miles, no pain. And about three months later, I went to Canada and I did Ironman Canada, and I had my best time ever. And I thought, ‘Holy smokes, this stuff is really, something's happening in my body, that's good’.

I noticed a couple other things to my maximum heart rate went up by 12 points. I could hit 176 on a real hot day going up a real steep hill on a bike. And I could hit 176 and it went to one 184. So I got a change, I got a physiologic change and improvement. So, I started playing with these amino acids. And I started measuring levels of amino acids in the clinic of patients that I was seeing. And what I found is that almost everybody had low levels of amino acids than what they should. Especially these things called essential amino acids.

Now, eight of the amino acids are called essential because the body can't make them, you got to get them in the food that you eat or in the supplementation. From those eight, you can make the other 14. So, if you don't get the eight, you don't make proteins because all the proteins have the essential amino acids. And if you're low in one or two or three, you're not going to make the protein

Lisa: The whole thing doesn’t work.

Dr David: It doesn't work. And the proteins turn over, they're always being rebuilt remodelled, because through our life there’s stressors. All the enzymes in the body that make energy and detoxified are proteins, they're made out of amino acids. And so, if the body isn't getting enough, there are 50,000 proteins in the body that need to be made all the time. And if you don't have enough coming in, the body is going to say, ‘I'm going to fix this tendon, but I'm going to let the immune system sag’, or ‘I'm going to fix this, whatever, and I'm going to I'm going to let the bones go because bones are made out of collagen, which is a protein, and I'm going to repair something else’.

And so, the gut lining is supposed to get a new layer every three or four days. But if there's a shortage, it might be, ‘Let's put that off’. So, it's every six or seven days, or eight or nine days, or a person gets a—they get an overuse injury. And then it's weeks before it heals instead of, ‘Why isn't it healed in a couple of days, it should be able to heal up’. So, it's because there's a deficiency of amino acids. And so all these patients had deficiencies of amino acids.

And so, we put together this formula called ‘PerfectAmino’, it's eight essential amino acids. And it's in a very specific blend.

Lisa: And that’s key.

Dr David: So that when you take the amino acids, your body utilises it 99%, utilises it to make body protein. So, there are thousands of athletes, or post-op patients, or pregnant or nursing patients, where you give them these supplemental amino acids and the body just starts to work better, it heals better, it performs better, immunity is better, osteoporosis gets better. And you can make a huge difference.

So, the search for the perfect protein was really my search for what is the perfect thing that works better than meat and fish and eggs by a factor of at least three to six times that you could take as a supplement. Nobody wants to eat pills as their meal. So, you eat good food, and you eat animal proteins. And if you're a vegetarian, you don't want to eat animal proteins, then you need to take more essential amino acids, more PerfectAmino, because the amount of amino of essential amino acids in vegetable foods is low. And they just aren't good enough to really keep somebody nourished.

I have tested thousands of vegans and vegetarians on their amino acid levels. They look terrible. A lot of these people are tired. They don't feel well, but they feel like the healthy thing to do is don't eat meat. Fine, I have no argument with that. But then you gotta make sure that you're getting the stuff you need so your body doesn't suffer. And PerfectAmino is vegan, it's kosher. So, like anybody with a list of, ‘It's got to fit these things’, they can take it because it's a safe, clean product.

Lisa: And the amazing thing that I didn't understand was that when we’re looking at foods and saying, ‘Well, we'll get our protein from our food’, say, a whey protein drink or a piece of steak or a fish. You see, in your talks, I heard—whey protein you’re actually only using around 16%, as actual protein gets integrated into the body and the rest gets used and tuned into either carbohydrates. And actually, if you're trying to keep your weight down or anything like that, I’ve got lots of friends who are trying to do low carb diets, and then you taking a steak, and not realising that part of that steak will turn into carbohydrates.

So, a steak was I think 33%, and fish was around the same and in eggs were quite high with a 48%, and breastmilk was the best at 49% that actually gets utilised. Yes, utilised in the body as a protein. And I was like, ‘Wow, so half of what I'm eating is not actually being used in the right way’. And when I looked at spirulina, because I'm very big on spirulina, and I've been, ‘Oh, it's got almost 64% protein’, and then realising that actually, you're only using a tiny portion of it. Not to say that spirulina is bad because there's lots of great reasons to take spirulina, but protein source, it’s not the optimum.

And then the other interesting thing that I found is—just hopping back to my mum story, she's got fatty liver disease and some kidney issues. So, I've got her on a very low protein diet. And I've been concerned about what her ability to recover and do all the things that her body needs some protein when I've got her on a low, mostly vegetarian diet.

Now I'm excited to get the PerfectAmino because I had to have a low protein diet with her because she can't process nitrogen. Nitrogen, for listeners, is the protein, it takes the nitrogen off and then it has to be processed in the liver and to urea and then excreted in the kidneys. Now if you've got liver or kidney problems, you can't get the urea out of the system. And of course, that leads to problems where you've got too much nitrogen, which is a toxin, and you can get gout and so on and worse things.

So, this is a really good thing for people who have kidney disease, for people who are on dialysis, for people who have fatty liver disease or alcoholic liver or anything where it's impaired these detox processes and you can’t take your proteins, this is a way to get those proteins without the nitrogen problem.

Dr David: Exactly, exactly. And then so you can meet their protein needs with virtually no calories because this stuff has practically no calories. 10 grams is only four calories.

So, if you're a dieter or, you know, if you're—let's say, we're going to go super lean, we're going to do low calorie, and still a chicken breast is going to be 250, 300 calories, or beef steak. Whereas you can get more protein and 10 tablets of PerfectAmino or two scoops, it comes as a powder too. And it's only four calories.

And so, you can meet your protein needs, but you don't deplete yourself, and you don't get the calories. So, for dieting, it's good for your mum. It's perfect because see, immune wise, these immune proteins are made out of proteins. And if you're depleted, it may mean lack of immunity and a lot of these people that have chronic illness with kidneys or livers, they're susceptible to infection. And when you put them on low protein diets, their gut, they get a leaky gut, and they leak bacteria and they get infections. And then they have low immune proteins in their blood and they can get really sick, they can get sepsis, they can really get sick, they can get skin breakdown. So, mouth ulcers, lots of stuff.

So, this is something that can be used by, virtually all sick people are amino acid deficient. I mean, 100%, I don't care what's, whether you've got cancer or Parkinson's or chronic fatigue, you have low amino acids. If you're an athlete, you most likely have low amino acids and your performance will increase. We've had lots of super high elite level athletes that are taking this thing now. And I just tell people, if you're an athlete and you're trying to get performance, the guys that are beating you on PerfectAmino.

Lisa: And you've had this case in the Tour de France. So I heard that story with the guys that were on the PerfectAmino we're not breaking down like the guys because after 21 days of an extreme amount of exercise, you're smashing the crap out of your body. And at the end, they were turning out to be stronger than they had gone into the competition with these aminos, and I'm like, ‘Ah, damn, why didn't I have that during my competitive career’? It was good to have branched-chain, but it wasn't really the best option out there.

Dr David: Well, see, with branched-chains, of the eight essential amino acids, three of them are called branched-chain. So that's just their structure. But if you take branch-chains—see, every protein in the body has all eight essential amino acids. So, if you're trying to build or expand your protein, or recover your protein, if you're taking the three, you're not getting all eight, and it won't work. So branched-chain amino acids act like a carbohydrate, you might as well eat a banana.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr David: Now what I've been finding, so I'm doing an Ironman in two weeks, and I have this company called BodyHealth, so we make an electrolyte. So, it's a mixture of sodium, it's got high potassium, it's got zinc, and magnesium and trace minerals, and we put two grams per serving of PerfectAmino in there.

So, I'm putting my 22-ounce water bottles, when I go out and bike, 22 ounces of water, I put two scoops in the electrolytes, that's four grams of amino acids. And I put a scoop of the regular PerfectAmino, which is another five grams. And I'm drinking a bottle every hour or two, depending on the heat.

And I tell you that it's a performance increaser recovery. And then, it keeps your mind clear because having these amino acids trickle in, just gives your body a message that there's plenty available, you can work it hard, you don't have—there's no deficiency. And I find it just really makes a huge difference to use doses that are higher than what we used to recommend, but it actually works better.

Lisa: So, because someone like me, who's done like 25 years of extreme endurance sports, and really smashed my body, damaged my kidneys, constant problems with anaemia, and now I have really a problem with my exercise tolerance has gone down massively, in the last four years, I've had lots of stress as well, with sick parents and so on.

But is there a way back? Is there a way to build that resilience that I used to have through—like, I have a very good diet, I have very good supplementation or constantly learning but doing well on all those points, and yet the exercise tolerance is still very low at the moment.

So, where I used to be go out and be able to run 200 kilometres, now a 5k run is quite a mission. Is there a way back for me, do you think? I should book an appointment with you, but just look from an athlete's point of view, will this help with exercise tolerance, as well as the recovery?

Dr David: See your mitochondria are not, they’re not producing? Every disease condition too—it's a power failure.

Lisa: Yes, someone pulled the plug.

Dr David: The bulbs are, you got a 10-watt bulb in a room that needs a 100-watt bulb. And as long as there's daylight coming in from the outside, and you could read, you could see with a 10-watt bulb, but when it gets dark, you can't read, you can't see. And these mitochondria, they’re not making ATP.

And so while they used to be able to crank out ATP, I don't think it's at this point that their structure is so damaged, that they can't be recovered. I think they need some help, like some diagnostic help, like what are the actual issues? What are the mineral imbalances? What are the hormones doing? What shape is your gut in? Do you have parasites? Are there heavy metals? What are your amino acid levels? Like you have to do sort of a like where is the problem coming from? What is the weak link that's causing this mitochondria to not be able to produce energy?

And so, we do a thing where we actually do a test of mitochondrial function, we measure the VO2 max and we measure what their actual metabolism is, and you can say, ‘Wow, this guy can't do it’. You take someone with chronic fatigue and their anaerobic threshold. So that's where they can no longer have enough oxygen coming in to keep up with what It's needed and they start producing lactic acid. Their anaerobic threshold consists of sitting up in bed, they just hit their anaerobic threshold. Like they can't walk to the bathroom because it's too much.

And then you take somebody like yourself, you could run 200 kilometres. And you never were at anaerobic threshold, and you were moving pretty darn fast, with tremendous amount of energy being produced. And I don't think the machine is broken, I just think the machine has been stressed and it needs a rebuild process. And that you could do it, and some of its amino acids, and some of its hormonal, and some of its, there's a lot of tricks now to be able to, like, ‘How can we get this thing moving so that we can get the performance back up’? And then when the performance goes back up, it’s like, ‘Here, I’m back’.

Lisa: It’s like, ‘Oh my God’. Yes. And then, I've been working on my own issues while I'm learning all these other things and rehabilitating my mum, and I've learned a lot, and I'm certainly a lot better. But there's a couple of pieces of the puzzle missing. So that's why I'm super excited about the PerfectAmino part of the story. And I'll report back to you on how they had to fix me because I'm damn sure that there's a protein deficiency going on. If I look at my whole entire history, there's always been a problem.

And getting off my case now, but just looking at the whole gut health situation, this is where it was really an eye opener for me too. You see that the gut lining is only one self-second, it replaces itself every three, four, five days. But some people it's taking up to 10 days. And this leads to leaky gas with a zonulin and the tight junctions are getting too loose and leading protein and in bacteria and things through into the bloodstream, which is causing systemic inflammation and problems everywhere. And it becomes a bit of a catch 22 isn't it? When you don't have enough amino acids, you can't make new gut cells. But then if you don't have a good gut, then you can’t absorb the protein, and it sort of becomes a vicious cycle. So this is a way to break that cycle. And...

Dr David: I mean, these things, we've measured this, you take a dose of 10 grams of amino acids and you start measuring blood levels amino acids in 23 minutes, this stuff’s in your bloodstream, almost irregardless of what your gut health is like. Like it gets in, it gets through.

Lisa: Even with the gap absorption issues and working with a patient with celiac, for example, at the moment, whose got a lot of gut issues and so even for someone like that...

Dr David: You may have to start them easy, work them up.

Lisa: Yes, we're going to go to 30 grams a day straight off.

Dr David: Don’t go 30 grams straight off. But you can get them—but it starts the repair process. And then they can, nobody's healthy without a good gut. And hardly anybody's got a good gut. So it's always a critical piece of the puzzle to get people where they're not bloated and they don't have heartburn and they don't have constipation, they don't have diarrhea, and they wake up in the morning and they've got a flat belly that feels good. And you got to get that person there with things that you're familiar with, with probiotics and digestive enzymes and PerfectAmino, and these things. And in most people, you can heal up.

Lisa: You can fix it. The digestive enzyme piece of the puzzle. Is there any danger with digestive enzymes? I heard your story about Kelley William Donalds, the enzyme?

Dr David: Yes, those are over the top strong.

Lisa: So, digestive enzymes. Do you have a digestive enzyme product in your line?

Dr David: Yes, yes, we call it Full Spectrum Digest. And it's, it's a really good product. It's like a digestive enzymes or some hydrochloric acid in it. The tolerance level on it is almost everybody can take it without a problem. The ones I was experimenting with, they're really strong.

Lisa: Right and that was for cancer prevention. Yes. And looking, which was interesting research, actually. But so okay. So you're looking at those two sides of the puzzle. And people as they get older, we produce this stomach acid. And then there are billions of people on 59:50 bloemen acid blockers. And that's a real problem that's causing all these gut issues and then it becomes the next pill to fix, the next thing. So polypharmacy sort of situations that people get into.

So this is a way out now taking acid blockers, why are they bad? Or well, bad, long term?

Dr David: Well, the enzyme in the stomach, it starts protein digestion, requires an acid to be active. So it's called pepsin. And if the pH of the stomach, so pH is a measure of acidity, one is the most acid, 14 is the least acid. So 14 is alkaline, 7 is water in the middle. So, in order for the pepsin in the stomach to activate, it requires a pH in the stomach of one to two. So that's very acid.

Pepsin is the beginning process of breaking down the proteins that you eat. So you eat a chicken breast. So the actin fibres in that chicken muscle have 5600 amino acids in a chain. Now, your intestine will not accept that, it's too big. It will only accept it if it's chopped into little teeny individual amino acids. So if you don't break actin fibre down into 5600 individual amino acids, your body can't utilise that protein, it can't get it in.

So if you give someone a drug, which doesn't allow them to produce stomach acid—no, so now the level of acid in the stomach is seven, it's water. The pepsin doesn't get activated. The first step in protein digestion doesn't occur. And so you don't get the benefit of the proteins that you're eating. The other side of it is in order to absorb minerals, magnesium, zinc, selenium, you need an acid stomach. And if you don't have an acid stomach, you don't get absorption and key minerals. So we find 80% of the patients that we test, they have magnesium deficiency, many of potassium on a cellular level deficiency and zinc deficiency, and selenium. So, these are key things.

The other problem when you block stomach acid, the food that we eat is not sterile. Nobody boils their food until it's sterile before they eat it. We eat raw food or fruits, we eat raw vegetables, there's bacteria in there, there’re parasites in there. And you eat that stuff. And if the mechanism of the body to protect itself from bacteria in food is that there's acid in the stomach, and it kills bacteria. If you don't have acid in your stomach, you eat that broccoli raw, or the tomato. Or you went to a restaurant you had a salad but right before they chopped up the lettuce, they had a raw piece of fish on the thing that they were slicing up and he didn't really wipe off the cutting board very well. And then he puts his lettuce on there, he’s chopping it up. And so, there's some parasites in that lettuce, there's some amoebas, or something in there, and you eat that. And it doesn't get killed in your stomach, which is supposed to happen and it gets in your small intestine. There's a worldwide epidemic now, what's called SIBO, it's all intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Well, where those bacteria come from? They came from your food. Why did they get through? Because you have no stomach acid.

Lisa: Oh my gosh. So it becomes a vicious cycle.

Dr David: Dogs can eat anything because they have humongous levels of stomach acid. And so, they could go and eat out of puddles and eat all this stuff because they have a protection.

Lisa: So by blocking it, we’re actually causing way more—and that the good and the reflex, a reflex is actually not enough essence, not too much isn't it? So, and as we get older, we produce this betaine or HCl betaine. So, we need to be looking at our levels of stomach acids and enzymes. So pancreatic enzymes are lipases and proteases as well, all of the things that break down.

And so having a supplementation of good enzymes, and a good combination, in combination with the PerfectAmino, I think is a really a golden sort of—and then add on a few... And people might say, ‘Well, isn't there just a whole lot of supplementation? And can I just, you know, eat my normal food like we did back in the day’? And the answer is, I don't think we can because the world isn't a complete mess and we are not living as we did 200 years ago and how our ancestors had good food and no glyphosate and they had good organic meats and they didn't have this toxic influx of exhaust fumes and paint fumes and furniture, off gassing, and all of these things that are adding to the load that the modern day human has to deal with.

And so therefore, I think we do need appropriate supplementation, good organic food, and good exercise, good sleep patterns, good—all those basic things that we often also neglect to have a healthy human. And this is why we've got massive chronic disease now that we shouldn't be having. And the wonders of modern medicine so that they can keep us alive with great surgeries and great—but on what status so many people are in a hell of a hell of a mess.

And they just get one pill after another. When you go to the doctor often and this is not everybody, thank goodness there’s some amazing functional doctors out there, like yourself. But often you go and you get stomach acid because you've got Gerd or you get a blood pressure medication or just one pharmacy thing after the other. And this whole model seems to be skew with, doesn't it?

Dr David: Yes, it's totally skewed.

Lisa: It’s totally out of balance. Yes. Skewed is a good word.

Dr David: You know, sometimes in emergencies, they can save somebody's life. But in a long-term solution, it's not workable. And so, American healthcare is the most expensive in the world. And yet we're 29th in the world in overall health. Medicine is not the answer, lifestyle is the answer.

And so, if that's nutrition, and it's what you said. It's sleep, and it's relationships, and it's good nutrition, and it's organic food, and it's sunshine, and it's finding what makes you happy, and the purpose. And without those things, you drugs aren't going to fix you. They're never the right answer to it.

Like I said, in an emergency, it might be needed. You've got a bleeding ulcer, okay, take the acid blocker until your stomach heals. But then figure out what happened, what is an infection or what was wrong? And get off of it because it's long term, it's bad for you. These drugs are associated with gastric cancer because they're bad for you. And they shouldn't be used that way.

Lisa: And across the board, aren’t they? Just like everything, like antidepressants to our vaccinations to—these are all things that yes they may have some good things, but they're just given out like lollies, it would say, and the damage that we're doing is huge in its societal perspective, we really got some major problems. I mean, look at the whole contraceptive and I might go into that, but the damage that has been done to our whole fertility and woman's health and in so on, all of these areas.

And so, in our little way, I hope that this conversation, these open conversations and the sharing, what I love about my podcast is that I get to meet amazing people doing incredible work and just help you get that message just a little bit further, for a little bit more people. And it is basically one by one by one we’ll slowly be able to change.

And if we vote—I heard you say in one of your talks was that we vote with it with our dollar—if we start demanding food that’s not packaged in plastics all the time, if we start buying more organic, and start avoiding the things that are bad for our planet, and voting with our dollar then we're going to contribute to the solution because everything is dollar driven, unfortunately. It's a reality of our world. So, we need to actually change, each one of us add to that conversation.

Dr David: Yes, I mean, the reason why companies sell Doritos is because people buy Doritos. And they will keep making Doritos because you can’t eat just one

Lisa: It tastes so good. Oh hell no.

Dr David: It’s engineered that way. But if you eat something else and the world turns that way. That's—Amazon bought Whole Foods because it's good business.

Lisa: Great. That's good thing

Dr David: The entrepreneur’s looking for what is going to drive the business. And that's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It's just that, like you said, each of us have a choice with what we buy, and it's a vote. And the more we buy the things that aren't good for us, the more we support the industries that are doing things that aren't good for us. If all of us decided, ‘We're not going to eat any foods from now on that has glyphosate on it’. And then the farmer brings it and says, ‘There's no glyphosate in here’. ‘Okay, I'll buy it’. ‘There's glyphosate in it? I'm not buying it’. If we got 10 million or 20 million or 50 million or a billion people to say, ‘We're fed up with this, we're not even glyphosate’. You know what? They wouldn't make glyphosate anymore.

So we got what we deserve because that's what we did. And we got blindsided. And I think we got bought, and the guys that run everything control media and 70% of the media is pharmaceutical, big agriculture. So, if you watch a lot of TV, you're going to get brainwashed, and you're going to buy what they tell you. So, I mean, you got to start getting your information from different places. Like from you. And if they listen to you, and turn off the TV set, and then do what you say, and we get more and more and more and more people doing this, we can change the world in some ways.

Lisa: A move up by the people.

Dr David: You can’t blame them.

Lisa: Yes. I mean, this is exactly what I'm wanting to make a documentary around the vitamin C story. And it's going to be very hard to get funding for such a thing, because the media companies are also, it's so one-sided, shall we say? And this is a problem. We're not getting the right—we're not getting unbiased information out there. I mean, in New Zealand, they advertise direct to our consumers drugs.

Dr David: Well, here, too. The US, too.

Lisa: I mean, I just don't understand it. We don't let them put smoke cigarette advertising on television, but we let them put pharmaceutical advertising and ask your doctor for this. And it's like, ‘Really’?

Dr David: Yes. Yes. And they control Google, they control everything. So that if you're looking for things, you're going to find what they want you to see. In the United States now, the Justice Department and the US government is going after Google for controlling media of what they want people to see. And they won't let people see...

Lisa: Are they doing this?

Dr David: It’s fantastic. Now I don't know—I hope they can get it but it's really true. They have amazing health censorship.

Lisa: Oh, yes, Google is censoring.

Dr David: And so, it's moving. Just hopefully, we can get this thing moving fast enough before we extinct our species.

Lisa: Because we are, I mean, fertility rates are dropping, everything is heading downwards if we don't start to make a difference.

And just to sum up, because I know I've taken up far more of your time than I should have. But you see that a beautiful summary in your book, there is no such thing as a free lunch. For those people who say, ‘Well, I don't want to pay for tasting and supplements and good food’, you're going to pay in another way. You're going to pay, you're just choosing to pay later and down the track with worse consequences. Or you're paying to be preventative, you're paying for good health. And those are the two choices. We're making a choice. And inaction is one choice. It is a choice.

Dr David: Right. And no one bats an eye paying five bucks for Starbucks. Okay? Maybe one every day. Okay, so that's 150 bucks in a month of Starbucks coffee. Or you could buy a big canister of amino acids for that. And you could make your coffee at home for two cents a cup. And you'd be the same.

So you're right, they’re choosing and if what you choose is not pro-survival in the long run, then you're going to end up in the medical system. And the medical system is very dangerous. The third leading cause of death in the United States, I don't know how it is New Zealand, is doctor-caused illness, death. Whether it's surgeries or procedures, or drug reactions, it is a real big deal.

And if you don't want to end up as one of their statistic casualties, then you have to be able to orient your life toward nutrition, and supplementation, and detoxification, and healthy living, then you don't have to mess with them. Otherwise, you're going to end up in because you're going to get high blood pressure, or diabetes, or osteoporosis, or arthritis, or one of these things, and then you're going to go to them, you're going to get a drug. And then that drugs going to cause a problem, and then you're going to get another drug, and then that causes a problem. And then pretty soon, you're one of their guys. And if people had to actually pay for their medical care, none of this would happen.

When government starts paying for medical care, and the governments are run by the big lobbyists, and then you get free this and that, now you're really, like you said, there's no free lunch, you're going to pay. You just think it's free but actually, it's not.

Lisa: Yes. And I mean, I've just been through two huge journeys in my family with my mum, as I said earlier, with four and a half years of rehabilitation and fighting the system. And now with my father and the things that I experienced fear, not being able to get him vitamin C, when he was dying of sepsis, and he was dying. And I was told that he was, and I was still not allowed to give it to them. And I had to fight legal battles, ethics committees, I had doctors and friends on the outside that I'm connected to pushing for me, given me all the evidence to present and I am the second person in history of New Zealand able to get vitamin C in the ICU setting. But it was too late for my dad.

And this is the sort of thing we're up against. So, I want people to understand that when they get stuck into that hospital system, there are limitations as to what you're allowed to do. You don't have the jurisdiction over your own body anymore. And I wish it hadn't got to that point with my dear father. And it's something that I'm going to have to work through over the next few years, and his legacy will be that I will get those change some way, come hell or high water. It's my ultra-marathon now, is to change that one thing. And there's lots of other things I'd like to change but if I can get that through that message, then I'm contributing to that story.

Look, Dr Minkoff, you've been just so wonderful today. Thank you so much for the generosity of your time, we've done a very long session. I would love to have another team with you. Honestly, I wish you lived in New Zealand. Thank you for the work and the dedication. I know that you could be just sunning yourself in Florida, and retiring, and enjoying, doing Ironmans all around the world but you're still passionate about this work. And I love learning from masters like yourself. So, thank you very much for your service. It's really a pleasure

Dr David: My pleasure. Enjoyed it. I'm sure you can pull this off. I would hate to go up against you if I was Medical Board, you can do this thing. You just have to keep hammering on them because they don't know what they're talking about and they're stuck in a stupid idea. And it can be changed and your contribution is enormous and thanks for what you do.

Lisa: Thank you so much, doctor.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Losing someone we love is one of the most painful experiences we all have to go through. While we all grieve differently, and some people find it hard to heal even after years have passed. As they relive the suffering day by day, they forget that they have a whole life ahead of them. But at one point, you have to unburden yourself from this feeling and move on with your life. Once you do, you'll realise how amazing the mind to body connection is and how it works.

In this episode, Gunny Sodhi joins us to share a deep and intimate personal story on how he got into Ayurveda. He talks about getting diagnosed with PTSD after his brother passed from a car accident. Gunny emphasises the importance of processing your emotions and explains how Ayurveda helped him heal from his suppressed grief. He then delves into the essence of this medicine system and how its principles on the mind to body connection are ingrained in YouVeda's products.

If you want to learn more about incorporating the Ayurvedic techniques of mind to body connection into your life, this episode is for you!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand why it’s critical to process emotions properly and not suppress them. 2. Learn about the science of Ayurveda. 3. Discover the power of Ayurvedic techniques in dealing with grief.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * A new programme, BOOSTCAMP, is currently ongoing this September at Peak Wellness! * The Balanced Being Podcast: Pushing the limits with Mental Toughness Coach and Human Potential Expert Lisa Tamati * Connect with Gunny: Instagram | LinkedIn * YouVeda: Website | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube

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Episode Highlights [04:38] Gunny’s Background and His Brother’s Passing * Gunny grew up in a household with Ayurvedic practitioners. But he didn’t understand its power until much later. * In 2006, his brother got into a tragic car accident that led to his death. They were planning to meet that day. * When he heard the news about the accident, Gunny's body went into fight or flight mode. * He recalls being in a zombie-like state from the moment he arrived at the hospital until they spread his brother’s ashes.

[08:00] Facing Grief and Processing Emotions * He interpreted the advice ‘be strong’ to mean that he cannot show any emotion. * However, he has realised that true strength comes from feeling the emotions of grief and sadness. * When you feel your emotions, you allow them to be released. * Resisting emotions hinder you from experiencing the resilience of the body and the mind.

[09:56] Getting Diagnosed with PTSD * Gunny didn’t allow himself to feel his emotions. Six months later, his dad diagnosed him with PTSD. * He experienced deep anxiety and depression, suicidal thoughts, and every manifestation of suppressing his feelings. * Without allowing yourself to process emotions, your body will forcefully put you through it once you want to move on. * Gunny got to a point when he was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. He knew he had a choice, and he wasn’t going to be that way for the rest of his life. * He then went to his father for help. His dad knew about his situation but never interfered because he knew Gunny wasn't ready.

[11:33] Learning How to Deal with Emotions * His father instructed him to start meditating, change his diet, do yoga, take Ashwagandha, and focus his attention on his life. * When his father said that his situation at that time was no longer grief but suffering, it all clicked in Gunny’s head. * He then diverted his mind to creative things. He went all-in on entrepreneurship. * Gunny felt better week by week. After five weeks, he realised he was totally fine.

[13:22] The Power of Ayurvedic Techniques * Ayurveda involves different techniques on how the mind works and how quickly you can shift it. * Gunny carried on the Ayurvedic techniques he applied in dealing with his grief years later. * If he goes back to that experience now, he reckons he would have gotten himself out of it in two weeks. * He founded YouVeda to give people the resources he didn't have.

[17:33] The Mind to Body Connection in Ayurveda * Ayurveda emphasizes the mind to body connection. Furthermore, it stresses balance in the mind, body and spirit. * Each of us has a unique dosha constitution and a dominant dosha. But we can rotate in and out of doshas throughout the seasons and circumstances of our life. * Ayurveda is a 5000-year old practise that stresses the science of life. Its essence is to live in balance within yourself, the universe, and nature. * Ayurveda’s most important point is that ‘as the mind conceives, the body follows’. * It’s about continuous balance in whatever we do.

[20:18] How Science is now Validating Ancient Practices * Ancient traditions have existed for many years and are now getting scientific validation. * One example is the mind to body connection in the gut that impacts our health.

[21:05] Gunny’s Ayurvedic Background * Gunny's father studied Ayurveda in India. Because Ayurveda wasn't licensed in the US, he became a naturopathic doctor. * Since Ayurveda and naturopathy are similar modalities involving the mind to body connection, his father combined them in his practice. * His uncle and aunt followed suit from his father.

[22:06] YouVeda’s Products * Doctors with 45 years of clinical experience are responsible for developing their products. His father is also an advisor. * YouVeda has products for different modalities: mood, digestion, joints, immunity, overall body. * They’ve combined the greatest natural ingredients with modern science. * YouVeda has supplement kits incorporating everything you need in a convenient packet. * They also give resources in addition to the products, depending on the modality you choose.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘The true strength comes in feeling those emotions, being with your grief, letting your body become just overwhelmed with the sadness, with the grief.’

‘Emotions come up to be felt. It’s energy and motion. Once those emotions come up to be felt, eventually, they are released.’

‘I knew that what I was doing was not how the rest of my life was going to be, and I had a choice.’

‘If you've been through hell and your mind plays these tricks, and you've been in the deepest, darkest place, do you want nothing more than just to feel fine?’

‘In its essence, simplicity, [Ayurveda] is to live in balance, balance within yourself, balance within the universe, balance with nature.’

‘As the mind conceives and believes, the body follows.’

‘We need to understand how the body works. It's combining those lifestyle interventions with the right supplements, with some good nutrition, and voila, we have a much better chance of being healthy for a very long time.’

About Gunny Gunny Sodhi is an Ayurvedic medicine practitioner, entrepreneur, and founder of YouVeda. His company offers premium Ayurvedic holistic solutions, including supplement kits. The foundation of the family-owned business is the 30+ years of combined experience of Gunny, his wife, and his parents. YouVeda's vision is to create a healthier and happier world through Mother Nature's intelligence.

Gunny is also the host of The Balanced Being Podcast. This show serves as a guide to a healthy and balanced lifestyle by incorporating the principles of Ayurveda.

If you wish to connect with Gunny, you may reach out to him on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can also visit YouVeda’s website or on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about Ayurveda and the mind to body connection.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show.
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‘Learn to live with your pain.’ How many times have you heard this statement? For people with chronic pain, this is common but unhelpful advice. Pain is more than just mechanical damage. Context and the expectations you have around it play a significant role in how you experience pain. Remember, it’s possible to recover from pain. But you must be aware of the proper chronic pain treatment.

Pain expert Dr Kal Fried joins us in this episode to discuss how pain is more complicated than we think. If we want to recover from pain, we must first understand how it works. He also shares the role of medication and lifestyle changes and how chronic pain treatments work differently for each person. What’s important is to become active and involved in your recovery process.

If you want to learn more about chronic pain treatment and how to break free from chronic pain, this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how pain works and why it’s more complicated than just a mechanical function of your body. 2. Understand how we can deal with and recover from pain through lifestyle changes and other chronic pain treatments. 3. Discover the importance of taking charge of your healing and recovery.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * A new programme, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September to Peak Wellness! * Pain Revolution * Programmes that came out from Pain Revolution: Brain Changer | Permission to Move * Exsurgo * Explain Pain by David Butler and Lorimer Moseley * Connect with Dr Kal: Website | The Rehabilitation Medicine Group | Phone: +613 9555 7769 | Fax: +613 8738 1504 | Email

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

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Episode Highlights [04:10] Dr Kal’s Career * Dr Kal is trained as a sports and exercise physician. He oversees the medical needs of athletes and regular people. * Through his work and experience, he observed that the severity of injuries could not predict the outcome. There were cases of minor injuries leading to terrible outcomes and vice versa. * These experiences led him to learn more about the science of pain and work with the organisation Pain Revolution.

[06:52] Why Pain is Complicated * We’re taught that pain is mechanical. But, bodies do not produce pain, per se. * The body only produces electrical signals that our sensory nerves pick up. * Your pain response is dependent on how much danger your brain thinks you’re in. * Injuries are not always proportionate to pain. Pain has physical, contextual and sociological contributing factors. * Listen to the full episode to hear two stories about people who ignored — and created! — pain based on their circumstances!

[13:42] How Pain Works * Pain is more complicated than we think. Thresholds don't explain pain completely either. * Your context plays a significant role in how you perceive and experience pain. * There are other factors that contribute to you experiencing more pain, such as stress, living through a pandemic, your beliefs and expectations.

[14:52] Responding to Pain * Lisa shares how there are various kinds of pain in her life. These include the changes women undergo at different times in their cycles. * Learn to accept that there is a lot involved with pain. Understanding and acceptance will help you change your pain response. * Pain can become a habit. Injuries create a direct channel to the brain, which can remain even after someone's body heals. This is called sensitisation. * While there are medications designed to stop this direct channel, the best method is to develop habits for desensitising this pain pathway.

[21:09] The Role of Distractions and Neurotransmitters * We often experience higher levels of pain at night because nothing distracts us from the pain. This then leads to sleep deprivation and fatigue, creating a cycle of pain. * People naturally develop intuitive strategies like distracting themselves from pain. * You can transform your pain experience by manipulating your neurotransmitters through a re-adaptive program. * Through this process, you change people’s thoughts and actions.

[23:51] Medication is Not Always the Answer for Chronic Pain Treatment * The brain naturally contains morphine-like chemicals. * Pain medication doesn't work for everyone. Some people are pain-sensitive and medication-resistant. * Too much medication can also lead to addiction and negatively impact your health.

[28:50] The Hardships of People with Chronic Pain * People find it easier to empathise with those whose sicknesses are visible. * People with chronic pain often end up in a vicious cycle of social breakdown because there’s little understanding and compassion for the condition. * Not only that, pain makes people more irritable.

[31:06] Options for Chronic Pain Treatment * Meditation as a chronic pain treatment is slowly becoming more mainstream in the medical profession. * One method will not work for everyone as people relate to different things. It's vital to build an individualised program for chronic pain treatment or management. * Remember that pain is not harmful. It’s just a protective mechanism. * It’s common to hear that we need to learn to live with the pain, but this may not be effective for everyone. * Tune in to the full episode to hear Dr Kal talk about his work with Pain Revolution and the graded exposure program.

[34:56] Find What Works for You * It's difficult for doctors to understand your situation and condition fully. It would be best for you to take charge of your health by doing your research. * Question treatments and methods. Don’t blindly accept answers. * However, when you start to read online resources, you also need to be wary of false information. * Be careful how you interpret science and research.

[44:01] Seeking Science-Backed Treatments * Your health is an interconnected system. Pain can be a signal for many things. * Become more involved in your health; start with lifestyle changes. * Be careful with placebo treatments. There are cases where sugar pills seem to work because the brain believes that they will. * Placebo treatments’ effectiveness will wane eventually and lead people to seek more aggressive types of interventions. * What’s most important is understanding what methods work, their benefits and safety concerns before applying anything.

[47:24] The Pain Revolution Approach * Learn how pain works. There are a lot of reliable resources available that you can consult. * Pain Revolution has an annual outreach cycling tour. They also have a two-year course for local pain educators. * Dr Kal hopes for the community to grow and focus on non-interventional techniques for chronic pain treatment. * Know that you can adapt to pain. There is a way to recover.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I like to think of pain in terms of not causes but contributors. The physical side is important… but it’s only one contribution of many.’

‘By just getting people to conceptualise their pain properly, we can make a difference.’

‘The best model exists for understanding pain is that anytime we feel pain, or for that matter, all the sensations we feel, which are essentially produced by our brain, there are a lot of things going on at the same time.’

‘When pain persists, it takes a lot less contribution from the physical component to produce the same pain. Sometimes, no contribution at all and people remain in pain.’

‘I think the key thing is to try and avoid being too passive in your own health because reliance on external fixes can be a problem. A lot can be achieved by lifestyle changes.’

‘The people who do well in things like pain or recovery from injuries are often the people who have elected not to listen to the things they have been told.’

‘If you’ve got a problem, you just need to create that adaptation pathway for yourself, which doesn’t just involve the injury.’

About Dr Kal Dr Kal Fried is a proud member and Medical Director of Pain Revolution. Before being recruited, he was involved in the group's first Rural Outreach Tour in 2017. Dr Kal is an independent medico-legal examiner who has consulted with the Transport Accident Commission and WorkSafe as a medical advisor. He was admitted as a Fellow of the Australian College of Sports and Exercise Physicians in 1995. Ever since then, he's helped sporting teams at all levels and across disciplines.

From his experience, Dr Kal observed how the context of pain consistently predicted clinical outcomes. He often shares his findings and observations on pain science and chronic pain treatment on his website. He is also part of the Rehabilitation Medicine Group focused on creating re-adaptive programs for people in pain.

Interested to learn more about Dr Kal’s work? Check out his website.

You can also reach him on The Rehabilitation Medicine Group through phone (+613 9555 7769), fax (+613 8738 1504), and email.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about pain and chronic pain treatment.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Many popular diets and exercise crazes assume that they're going to work on everyone who tries them. However, every human being is unique. Health isn't one-size-fits-all. What works for one person may not work for you — it might even be detrimental! That's why we need to personalise our health programs to suit different body types.

Dr Cam McDonald joins us in this episode to discuss the importance of understanding your biology to personalise your health program. He talks about the role of genetics and epigenetics in determining your bodies' specific tendencies towards stress and food. We also delve into the different body types and what diets and exercises are most suitable for each one.

Tune into this episode if you want to learn more about personalising your health program based on your genetic make-up.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one-to-one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles my mum Isobel’s inspiring journey of defying the odds after an aneurysm left her with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn why personalisation is important in creating a health program for different body types. 2. Discover the role of genetics and epigenetics in determining your body’s specific tendencies. 3. Find out what kinds of food and activities are most suitable for different body types.

Resources * Take the ph360 HealthType Test to discover your body type and get your Personalised Health Plan! * Check out ph360’s website to learn more about their services on personalising your health program. * Connect with Dr Cam: Website | Instagram | Linkedin | Email | Phone: 0411380566

Episode Highlights [01:31] Why Personalisation Is Key * Every individual is different, but we keep applying the same health approaches to everyone. * Misalignment between the body and its environment causes diseases. * Personalising your health helps you align yourself with your environment.

[06:45] The Science of Chronobiology * Chronobiology is how our biology interacts with time. * Examples of chronobiological processes are our circadian rhythm, menstrual cycle, and ageing. * Our bodies have a rhythm that follows along with sunlight. * When people are active at night, it disrupts their system. This disruption creates hormonal irregularities, leading to diseases. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about chronobiological processes and how they affect our health.

[18:24] The Genetic and Epigenetic Component of Circadian Rhythms * People have different chronotypes which are based on when their bodies can tolerate stress. * Some people are ‘Activators’. Their bodies respond best to adrenal systems. In turn, they have energy that matches their strength throughout the day. * ‘Diplomats’ have bodies that respond better to their digestive and nervous systems. These people are more at risk for fluid retention, tiredness, and weight gain. * Muscle and fat production relies on the hormones stimulated by food and exercise.

[27:50] About Food Timing * ‘Crusaders’ have bodies that are neurally-driven and are not prone to obesity. * Because Crusaders are more likely to lose muscle, they are recommended to eat several small meals per day. * ‘Guardians’ have thick joints and big muscles. However, they also have the greatest capacity to store fat. * Guardians are recommended to have two meals per day (breakfast and lunch) and a very light, if not non-existent, dinner.

[38:41] Intermittent Fasting for Crusaders and Guardians * Because Crusaders are always on the edge of their fuel supply, intermittent fasting will impact their stress levels more. * Crusaders should only do one day of intermittent fasting per week. * Guardians, however, can go for extended periods of fasting because their rhythms are slower. * Being in a peaceful environment helps manage stress levels and makes intermittent fasting more tolerable. * Intermittent fasting and autophagy do not necessarily work for all.

[45:08] More About the Guardian Body Type * Because Guardians have strong and resilient bodies, they’re more likely to survive if there were a lack of food supply. * A Guardian’s body is that way because in nature, they protect their community. * ‘Sensors’, another ectomorph body type like the Crusaders, prefer nutrient-dense foods like vegetables. * Guardians, however, like high-calorie foods more because they provide a feeling of safety.

[54:48] Dominant Hormones for Different Body Types * The dominant hormone for Guardians is prolactin—a ‘caring’ hormone. * Diplomats search for a balance in serotonin—a hormone that you get as a reward for pleasurable things. This makes them assess an activity carefully if it’s going to be rewarding. * Activators search for adrenaline, so they always want excitement and action. * Crusaders' dominant hormone is dopamine, which creates drive and focus. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the different body types (like ‘Connectors’ and ‘Sensors’) and their dominant hormones.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘We know that everyone's different, but then when we go to actually doing the thing, we apply the average, or we apply what we think is appropriate thinking that everybody else is the same. So we have this disconnect between knowledge and action.’

‘The mind is also on a clock of its own. Essentially, if you're exercising at the wrong time, you set up the wrong kinds of hormones, then you can actually create complete stasis in your health.’

‘There’s a full continuum of where people are. This is based on not just their wants to wake up. . . it’s actually as to when a body can tolerate stress, and how that stress should be placed on them.’

‘Whether you put muscle or fat tissue on, it's actually not to do with your food or your exercise, it's got to do with the hormones that those foods and exercise stimulate.’

‘It's not a one size fits all when you hear everybody talking about intermittent fasting or doing these things—autophagy, inhibiting mTOR, and all those sorts of things.’

'The reason that their (Guardians') body is built the way it is is [because] when we go through famine as a community, their body goes into conservation. They essentially start growing, or they start slowing down their metabolism so that they can provide food for everybody else.'

‘If you put your body in the right environment, get the right foods, eat at the right times of the day, work and do your mental stuff, you'll get health and you'll get optimal performance and you'll get longevity.’

About Dr Cam McDonald Dr Cam McDonald has spent the last decade furthering his knowledge and skills to promote health in an easy and obvious way for people in all areas of life. He’s a dietitian and exercise physiologist, with a long-standing personal passion for health, genetics and environmental influences. His goal is to support all people to live up to their full physical potential.

Dr Cam has a firm focus on people becoming more aware of themselves, their natural strengths and their optimal behaviours for their best health. He is an informed speaker who has a passion for health and the inspiration to do something about it.

Want to know more about Dr Cam’s work? Check out his website or follow him on Instagram and Linkedin. You can also reach him through email (cam.mcdonald1@gmail.com) or phone (0411380566).

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can find out the right way to eat, diet, and exercise for their body type.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of The Episode Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits this week. Today I have another very special guest, also a repeat offender on the show: Dr Cam McDonald, who is the CEO of ph360 in Australia. He is a exercise physiologist, as well as a nutritionist. This guy's a bit of an overachiever, as are many of my guests, It might add. And Dr Cam has spent the last decade furthering his knowledge and skills so as to promote health in a way that makes it easy and obvious for his clients. So Dr Cams blends his background as a dietitian and exercise physiologist with his long standing personal interest in health, and his passion for understanding the latest research in genetics, and environmental influence on health. Now, Dr Cam is one of my teachers, and he is a mind full of information on the way your genes and how your genes are expressing. So today we're going to be talking about all about genes, again, personalized health, how you can tailor things to your personal situation and your personal life.

Before we go over to the show, I just want to remind you, if you want to check out our Epigenetics Program, please go to lisatamati.com, hit the Work with Us button and then you'll see all of our programs. And one of those is our epigenetics health optimisation program, which is all based on your genetics. And so you can understand and learn how to optimise your potential, your health, your performance, your diet, your exercise regime, and so much more. So check that out, especially after listening to this podcast, you're gonna want to check that out. So make sure you go to lisatamati.com, hit the Work with Us button and check out our epigenetics program.

I'd also like you to check out our running program, if you are a runner out there and you haven't got a coach and you don't know where to go and you haven't got a structure. Maybe you're doing your first five K's, maybe you're just starting out, maybe doing 100 miler, I don't care, we take them all. We do customize, personalized plans, based on your needs, your lifestyle, your injuries, your goals, and make that specifically for you. We also do a full video analysis to help you improve your form. And you get a one on one consult with me. And then ongoing support with the team. So please check that out. Check out the package, runninghotcoaching.com. runninghotcoaching.com is the place to go to, there. And check out our running program. Right now over to the show with Dr Cam McDonald for a very exciting interview.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. I'm super excited to have you here with me again. Today, I have another superstar, Dr Cam McDonald, all the way from Australia. And he is one of our mentors and teachers here. He is the CEO of ph360.me. So people are listening out there, you've probably heard one or two episodes where we've talked about genetics and epigenetics and how to understand your genes. Well, that's what we're going to be talking about today. And Dr Cam is an absolute expert on this. So welcome to the show, Dr Cam.

Dr Cam McDonald: Thanks, Lisa.

Lisa: Great to have you again.

Dr Cam: It's great to be here. It's been a long time between chats, but there's been an awful lot of interaction between. It's always been great.

Lisa: Yes, so you're our repeat offender on the show. But I think it was a good couple of years ago now. So I mean, meanwhile, we've dived deep into the world of epigenetics with you and learned from you and learned a ton of stuff. Way overdue that we had this conversation and started to share a little bit of your knowledge and the amazing things that we can now do with genetics and understanding how we run.

So everything in regards to epigenetics and genetics is all about personalising everything to your specific set of genes. And this has really been a game-changer for us personally and professionally, for our athletes, for people that we're working with, in the corporate setting and everything because everything should be personalised now, shouldn't it? Should we start there? I think that's a good place. Why is personalisation key?

Dr Cam: Yes, I mean there's a number of reasons why we definitely should be personalising. But the first is that we actually have the knowledge now, that's one thing. We have an understanding of how we can actually do this. I guess for our long history, and I guess for the history of the people that are alive, the people listening to this right now, we always know innately, ‘I'm different to that person’.

But then, when we go to recommendations. And when we go to how we go about our life, whether it be the job that we're sitting in, it's like, ‘You have to do this job in this way’ or ‘You can't do that great. We'll get someone else to do this job this way’. Like you must do this job this way. You must, ‘Oh, you're going to get fit? Great? You go to this gym, and you do this boot camp. Everyone goes to this boot camp because that's what is going to be great for everyone because the latest science says this’.

And when it comes to food, it's like ‘You should definitely do this because this is what the average of everyone should do’. And so we know that everyone's different. But then when we go to actually doing the thing, we apply the average or we apply what we think is appropriate thinking that everybody else is the same. So we have this disconnect between knowledge and action.

And so why we need to? I guess what we know now is that the timing of your food, the timing of your exercise, the type of exercise or foods that you're consuming, the type of work that you're doing, the types of interactions that you're having, if you don't get that right, it creates disease. If you align your body with its environment, then your body goes into a healing and recovery state, and you get healthier. But if you misalign, and that can just be getting up at the wrong time, and we see this with shift workers all the time—the longer that they do shift work, the more likely they are to die prematurely.

And this is when you get a misalignment with the body and the environment. But the really incredible thing is now, it's not just that we all should avoid shift work, it's rather that some people are going to be better suited to it than others. And when it comes to every other domain of life, there's going to be something that is great for one person. Like a big Gatorade is going to be the best thing ever for a runner during their race for it’s in the mean of best thing ever, and I'm not attached to Gatorade as a brand.

But let's say that you have some sort of electrolyte fluid as a drink. And that's going to be fantastic for a marathon runner 30K's in versus a person who's been sitting on the couch for the last six years and has a significant waist circumference and diabetes.

Lisa: Disaster.

Dr Cam: That drink is diabolical. And so, when we start thinking about personalisation, we start thinking about, well, ‘What's going to help this person align and perform’? Because if you misalign, it creates disease. So that's another motivation.

And then I guess, as I started, we now have the understanding of how people are different, what people need to do about it, and we've got some really wonderful results on if we apply that to these individuals, they're going to get a great result for themselves. It's now the time that we can act on this innate knowledge that we've always had but do it in a very intelligent way.

Lisa: And do it in a very structured way. A great example of this is that the whole fitness industry was really run by people with a certain type of genetic combinations. And so we trained, and I belong in that group, and you belong in that particular group. We train people we like to train and how we see benefits. We see benefits from the way that we train—high-intensity workouts and getting up early and training. Well, that suits you and me, right, Dr Cam? Because we're very close on the epigenetics wheel, if you like, have similar genetic makeup. So that works for us. Whereas it doesn't work for someone on the other side, so who's more that of the endomorph type of body.

So I've used this example before, but my husband, I used to make him get up at five or six in the morning and do a CrossFit workout when he's what they call a Diplomat. And now in that terms, which means he has a different set of genetics, basically, that is not suited to getting up at that time and doing that type of workout. Both are wrong for him. From a chronobiological perspective, he should be in bed because his testosterone, his hormones are doing their thing at that time in the morning. So that was a problem.

Number two, I had him doing a type of exercise that was wrong for his body type. His ATP doesn't replace as quickly, and his cells are doing back-to-back sets just seem to map on a stress reaction. So his cortisol would be up, and then it would be up for the rest of the day. And what have I done to my poor husband? I've made him actually put on weight and not get further and feel like crap all day. So whereas for me, that same class, that same set of exercises, that same time of the day, perfect, and I'm good to go, and I'm really rearing to go. So that just gives you a little bit of an example.

So today, let's look at chronobiology because this is all about at the timings of when to do what. So can you explain what the science of chronobiology is, Dr Cam, and how it applies in this situation?

Dr Cam: Yes, absolutely. So chronobiology is how our biology interacts with time. And we know about this because we all get older—that's a chronobiological effect, is that we get older. But what's really interesting as well is that within because of the sun, and it's showing its face every day or so. It comes along at about 6 am and then leaves at about 6 pm whatever it might be. Because we've been living on this planet with this big stimulant from the sky, essentially our bodies have got adapted to things happening in a rhythm.

And so, it's just like we wake up, and then we go to bed, we wake up and then, that's a daily rhythm. We have a menstrual cycle. We have ovulation. We go through the menstrual period, and that happens on a 30-day cycle. We then have our early life. We have our middle age, and we have our later life. That's another cycle.

Even a yearly cycle as well, we have the circannual cycle. And so, we have seasons. So winter, it gets colder, and our body does different things. And so, essentially, now that we understand that we got these different patterns of time that are occurring, our body is constantly responding to cues from the outside.

And so where this work first came about was they started looking at shift workers instead of wondering why all of these people were getting so much more cardiovascular disease, diabetes. And they found that if you're waking up at night, and you're getting lots of light, and you're getting food at night as well—all of those things, tell your body, ‘Hey, you should be awake’. And so it wakes the body up.

But you've got this momentum of a cycle that's coming from generations of being exposed to the sun and sleeping at night, and all of our physiological systems are actually setting up for us to sleep at night and rest and recover and do a whole lot of things that definitely don't require doing heavy work or digesting food as much. And so we get this disruption. We get things happening and things being signalled to the body that shouldn't be signalled at that time, which creates irregularity in the hormones that flow through our body. Our cortisol, our melatonin, our testosterone levels, our adrenal levels—all of those things get shifted out of whack when we give ourselves an artificial time input. So we want to—essentially, the first and foremost, the first thing that we gauge what time it is is what amount of light we have.

Lisa: How much light, yes.

Dr Cam: Yes, and then when we get—when the sun comes up in the morning, it sets off this cascade of wakefulness. It takes us from dead asleep to awake in a very short period of time. There's a big hormonal shift that occurs to make that happen, and it maps into sunlight. And so, as we go through the day, we have this homeostatic drive of ‘The longer that I'm awake, the more I want to go to sleep’. That's a natural thing that we have. The more that you run, the more that you want to stop is another way of thinking about this one. So we have this—as the day goes on, you get more tired.

And we then also have these rhythmical changes. Essentially, it's not the homeostatic drive for tiredness, but the circadian drive of tiredness, and you'll have peaks in your day, or maybe in the afternoon, you're firing. Other people are really, really tired that they wake back up at night. Some people are really energised in the morning. We have all of these different things that are happening throughout the day as well. So to simplify all of this, our body is designed to rouse with early morning light or rears with light. We then are meant to—essentially, our body is searching for the rhythm that suits our body.

And what's really interesting, if you take light away from somebody—and I know I'm jumping all over the place, but I will bring this all together. So if you take light away from somebody. A great guy did an experiment on this way back in the day. He sat in a cave for a couple of months and with no changes in light at all, just exactly the same ambient light the whole time. And what happened was, his rhythm went to 24 and a half hours for a daily period. So what happens is, if we were to not have any sunlight input, we would run on a 24 and a half-hour cycle. And the was out of sync by a few days after a couple of months.

Lisa: After a couple of months.

Dr Cam: He actually—and he thought it was only a month that passed, it was two months that passed. His time really—oh no he thought it was three months that passed. It was only a couple months because time really slowed down. And so what we know is that inside our body, we have a rhythm.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: But that gets reset every day with the sunlight. And so, and it actually keeps us on track with the hormones that have been flowing as a result of that sunlight. So sunlight is one time giver. And if we disrupt that, it creates lots of disease in that shift work. Not only does your waist circumference get bigger the more shift work you do, all of the risks—cancer, diabetes, heart disease—increases the longer you do shift work.

Lisa: Wow. Wow.

Dr Cam: And what we see is if you disrupt a body for three days with bright light at night, they start looking like they get diabetes. Their insulin resistance changes.

Lisa: Instantly?

Dr Cam: Within a few days, you can start disrupting these cycles of hormones, which makes your body say, ‘Well, there's something wrong with this environment. Why am I awake at a time where I shouldn't be? Well, there must be something wrong. Therefore, I'm going to start conserving. I'm going to start going into a stressed state so that I can escape and protect myself’, and diabetes is just the ultimate protection—starvation protection that makes you gain weight very easily. And so, after a few days, four days, you can actually start seeing some changes in metabolism if you're out of sync with your sleep alone, then four days to correct it. So you can actually get back on track very quickly.

Now, light isn't the only time giver, there is also heat that you have in your body. Food is also a time giver. Exercise is also a time giver. And so if you eat regularly at the same time each day, your body will start falling into a rhythm of ‘I expect food’, and this is what happens when you change your diet. Some people go from six meals a day to two. Let's say they're doing some fasting or something like that. They'll be really, really hungry at the times that they were eating when they're doing six meals a day for about a week.

Then what happens is each cell in our body has its own timekeeper as well. The master clock is coming from the sunlight, and then each tissue in our body has its own timekeeper. And so our gut takes about a week to correct itself, and then it starts getting on track with the new routine, and so then, it starts setting up for the new routine. Therefore food, it gives time to the body, it actually gives the schedule. And along with that food intake comes insulin release, hormone release, all of those types of things.

But then the really important thing we need to consider is if you don't stimulate the body at the right time to get the right hormonal outflow, you start going into disease. And so, if you're eating food at the wrong time, you're stimulating these hormones just as if you were not sleeping at the right time. If you're exercising at the wrong time. Let’s some bodies are really, really well adept at tolerating stress in the morning. If you exercise, that's a stress.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Cam: You give your body that ‘Stress is coming now’. And if you do that regularly, your body's gonna say, ‘Okay, stress is coming now’. It prepares itself, and it deals with it quite well. But then if you take a night owl, and you give them that same stress in the morning, it gives them the time of stress in the morning, but their body is not set up for stress at that time of day. And so they start trying to compensate later through weight gains, like ‘I spent all of this energy at the time that I didn't want to. I wasn't set up for it, so I'm going to have to conserve my energy because something's wrong’.

Lisa: That’s what I was doing to the husband.

Dr Cam: Yes, absolutely. So what you see in a practical sense—and I'll just say one more thing as well, that the mind is also on a clock of its own. And essentially, if you're exercising at the wrong time, you set up the wrong kinds of hormones, and you can actually create complete status in your health. As in it doesn't get any better even though you're working really, really hard or can sometimes take you backwards.

And we're seeing this with some diabetes now is really high-intensity exercise in the morning, in some studies is indicating worsened blood sugar levels at the end of the day because everybody goes into survival of ‘Oh, this environment is really stressful’. So where you position things in your day…

Lisa: It’s crucial.

Dr Cam: ...sets a rhythm. But if that rhythm doesn't align with what your body needs in order to be in its best health, then it creates disease. And that disease, obviously, tracks down pathways of compensation and stress, and you end up with a body that has been getting up eating five meals per day, has been doing the early morning exercise, just like your husband.

Lisa: Yes. They’re getting nothing out of it.

Dr Cam: And because they’re putting stress out in the morning, they're giving them too much insulin response throughout the day because their bodies just not designed to get five hits of it throughout the day. Some bodies are, some bodies are.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: After 12 weeks, they've gained a kilo and got a bad knee. And they're wondering, ‘What the hell is going on’?

Lisa: And they've been a super disciplined person getting up. And I mean, just to give you a couple of examples of the set of my life because I like to put things into stories.

Dr Cam: Yes, please.

Lisa: So that people actually get the science. Six months ago I went through this terrible time with my dad, who was unfortunately dying and passed away in July. In the 16 days that we were in the hospital battling for his life, I was round the clock with him. Now my blood sugar levels went through the roof. So afterwards, I was showing like diabetic levels of blood sugars—fasting blood sugars because I was so out of whack and so stressed alongside of it. And it took me a good two to three months for me to get my body back into rhythm. So that was just 16 days of sleep deprivation, being up all night, hardly any food, in this case, was actually sharp throwing my blood sugar's up through the roof and the stress hormones that were coming out. So that's a really extreme example. And obviously, that was for a specific purpose.

And I've seen this also with ultramarathons that I've done, that I've been going for days on end. You would think that a person who was exercising 24/7, around the clock, sort of thing for not seven, but let’s say two, three days, that they would lose massive amounts of weight, and so on. And I would actually put on weight when I did ultramarathon. So I typically lose it initially, and then I would have all this weight gain. And then I would have this response. And within a month, I would be usually heavier than when I started, which was really frustrating.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: So this stuff matters, and this stuff is really, really important. And I've done podcast episodes already on circadian rhythms in regards to light and why we need to block out blue light at night time because, again, that's giving us a signal to stay awake and stopping our melatonin production.

And the example there with the cortisol, right? We want cortisol. We want these stress hormones at the right times of the day. So there is also a genetic component to this. And this is where, what we do at ph360, and what we find out in the programme that we run is looking at your specific genes in relation to circadian rhythms. Can you explain a little bit?

So why is it for my husband that if he gets up at 5 am and does that, that's not good for him? Whereas for my body type, that's not so bad?

Dr Cam: Yes, sure. So when we're talking about this, there is a genetic component, and I guess what we're going to be talking about today and what we've kind of alluded to is that there's also an epigenetic component. And so when we talk about chronotypes, and whether someone's an early bird, a night owl, or an intermediate type, or somewhere in between because there's a full continuum of where people are. This is based on not just their wants to wake up, not just that ‘I can wake up’, I'd prefer to sleep in’, or ‘I'd prefer to wake up early’. It's not necessarily that. It's actually as to when a body can tolerate stress and how that stress should be placed on them.

And in our body, at all times, there is a system of stress and then recovery, and it's that balance that we're trying to fluctuate through with our rhythms throughout the day. That's actually what the rhythms protect is that stress-to-recovery balance. So waking and then sleeping and then eat and then rest or, move, eat, rest, all of those types of things.

So, we have individuals that as they're developing in the womb, they get a heightened sensitivity to testosterone, they have a greater development of their adrenal system and their response to adrenaline, and that's due to embryological epigenetic factors. And to make that simple is that there's different tissues that are developing in the womb, obviously, that make up our body. Depending on the genes that you have and in the environment in the womb, you will give more dominance to certain tissues. And this particular person, they called the Activator in our ph360 circle. The Activators have, they develop the tissues more dominantly that are related to the muscle, the skeleton, the testosterone, and the reproductive glands, adrenal glands, kidneys. And so as they develop throughout their life, these hormones and these tissues have more dominance than the other tissues.

And so, I'll give another example just to give a comparison in a second. So if you've got a body that's more sensitive to testosterone, it also has a slightly stronger adrenal system. And Lisa is a perfect example of that, and I'm not too far from that.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And essentially, what this body does really well is that it responds to that adrenal system very powerfully. And first thing in the morning is when your adrenal system is the strongest. This is when you get the biggest glucocorticoid release that's your cortisol and your adrenalines. And essentially, it's to say, ‘Hey, you were dead asleep, and now you need to be awake’.

And because they've got tissues that are also ready for that, they even take that energy. And if they use their adrenal system at that time, it matches their strength. This is what they've grown to be strong in. And so it matches their strength to be really great at this. And so, when they use it, it aligns with what their body is looking for. And then they ride that energy all the way through to the end of the day. And this is because we've put the right body into the right environment at the right time.

However, a Diplomat, which is the opposite side of the circle, and what we see with embryological development is, on a circle, opposite sides, you'll see opposite effects. And so, instead of it being the adrenal system and the testosterone system that's really sensitive within the body, the other body, we actually see their digestive system and their neuro system being more developed and more sensitive.

And so what's happening in digestion in the morning is that it's, essentially, it's regulating where all the fluid is going to go in the body. It's finishing off these really important digestive processes, clearing out the digestion, making sure that the gut is rested and ready for new meals. And it's doing that right up until 7am.

And so this body is having to focus all of its energy on its digestive system because that's the really important system for this body. And if you then stress this body, what happens is it goes, ‘Well, I was trying to put water into the right place, I was trying to get my digestion on track, and I'm running all of a sudden’?

Lisa: You’re just taking what. Yes.

Dr Cam: ‘Like this does not match at all. I don't need adrenaline right now. This is bad news’. And so what happens is the body then goes into compensation. It says, ‘Oh, God. Well, I'm gonna have to make up for this later. I've spent all of this fluid of sweat. I've used all of this energy’. And so this body goes, ‘Well, I didn't get time to put my fluid away, so where is it? Okay, I'm going to retain fluid now’, because, and this is exactly what happened in that body.

Lisa: You’ve put on weight.

Dr Cam: You have enough cortisol at the wrong time.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: They make that retaining fluid. And this is exactly what's happening—they get the adrenal burst in the morning, but if they then run with that with some morning exercise, it becomes too much for their system. They can't then do those digestive processes. Their gut goes off, which influences their serotonin production, which makes them less happy.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: What's really interesting with this kind of crowd is that the things that we'll see is an individual wakes up, like I said before, we'll get up, and they'll do their exercise. And what they'll notice is they start getting this bit of weight around the middle.

Lisa: Around the middle.

Dr Cam: And they'll also start accumulating fluid. They'll get a halo effect from exercise of two to three hours because their stress levels actually stay a lot higher for a lot longer because they shouldn't be stressed at that time. So they get this, and stress hormones make you feel alive, and they make you feel awake. And so, for the first three hours of the day, you're going, ‘Yes, I'm an early bird. This is awesome’, and then come lunch, it crashes really, really hard. And you also become more diabetic in the afternoon, for lack of a better term, more insulin resistance.

Lisa: Insulin resistance

Dr Cam: Yes. And so, this individual has been working their guts out literally, and all they've got is more fluid retention, tightness in the afternoon, weight gain around the middle, which is the thing that they're doing exercise for.

Lisa: They’re stuck.

Dr Cam: And if they just shift that exercise later in the day when their body is ready for movement because this body likes to conserve energy in the morning, make sure everything is sorted in their body, and then they can move in the stress and all that sort of stuff in the afternoon. And if they do that, there's no cortisol rise to the same extent. They have much lower cortisol all day, which means they don't deposit fat around their stomach.

Lisa: Because cortisol is a real effect on…

Dr Cam: Huge one. And this particular body, absolutely, because it's the opposite of the Activator, the Diplomat is, they don't like their cortisol so high. They like things to be cruisy and peaceful and steady as opposed to high-intensity and… Exactly. And so, whenever you put this body into this thing at the wrong time, you end up with this adverse effect. And you start questioning yourself, it's like, ‘What the hell could I be doing better? I'm waking up, I'm getting my food in…’

Lisa: ‘I’m useless’.

Dr Cam: ‘...I’m doing the things I’m supposed to do, and then I'm crashing in the afternoon’. And all of a sudden, now they're having three or four coffees, which is just another stimulant of cortisol.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And then they worsen the effect. And so we see for this person, if they just sleep in, they actually start losing weight faster than if they exercise. And this is…

Lisa: So counterintuitive.

Dr Cam: So counterintuitive. But when you think that whether you put muscle or fat tissue on, it’s actually—not to do with your food or your exercise, it's got to do with the hormones that those foods and exercise stimulate.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: You don't grow muscle from protein alone. Because we'll see people in hospital who are malnourished, and we're feeding them lots of protein and they just burn then they lose weight. What we're trying to do is we need to modify the hormones. And if we get the right rhythm to our day—cortisol is acting, testosterone is acting at the right time, growth hormone is acting at the right time—if we were able to match our day with our hormone release that's relevant to us, then our body is able to—anytime that it gets some protein, is able to put it to work rather than burn it off in stress.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: And the same thing with exercise. If you do exercise stress at the right time, you stimulate the right growth hormones, which like in ultramarathon running, and I use this example all the time, it's just so appropriate right now. If you run for three days, are your muscles bigger by the end of the three days?

Lisa: Hell, no

Dr Cam: Exactly. They’re broken down. Exercise is a stress, and it just stimulates your body to say, ‘You need to be stronger here’. So this is where—whenever you're thinking about exercise and food, you've got to be thinking about ‘What hormones am I modulating here? And what hormones do I need right now’? And that's the information that we can have. Just two very simple examples that we provided before.

Lisa: Yes, and this is why this information in the programme that we do is so powerful because it gives you that specific information along with a ton of other things about what time to do things and when, in optimising your whole daily rhythms. But it isn't just about exercises, it is also about the food timing. So let's look at a little bit into the food timings and then also the whole neurotransmitter side of things.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: Like when am I going to get the best out of my brain? All that type of stuff as well. So from a food perspective.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: So you and I are Crusader. I'm a Crusader-Activator on the cusp there, means four to six meals a day is ideal for us or regular food. My mum's a Guardian. Opposite end of the wheel, again.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: Two to three meals a day, ideal. That doesn't mean that you and I can't do intermittent fasting. That doesn't, by the way. We can still do that and get the benefits of autophagy and stuff, but it's a shorter fast from what I worked on.

Dr Cam: That's exactly right.

Lisa: Yes

Dr Cam: Yes. And that's the perfect—I was actually going to use those two examples for that, Lisa. Spot on. So we've got Activators and Diplomats, which we’ve spoken about. Then, we got the Crusaders and the Guardians. So Crusaders are, essentially, Lisa’s a really good example, I’m a good example.

Generally slight like a soccer player—taller, leaner, slender. And one of the features of their body is that they're very neurally-driven. So as opposed to adrenaline and testosterone, as opposed to digestive, the Crusaders are very neurally-driven. Everything is about mental focus, mental drive, and creation of hormones that allow you to keep driving forward. And you see these types of people in triathlons and marathons and anything that requires that long-term high-intensity focus.

Now, with this body, not prone at all to obesity. You have to really, really really push with bad habits to get this body to a level of obesity versus the Guardian. Naturally, this is your strongest, thickest jointed, biggest muscled, and also, they have the greatest capacity to store fat. So anyone that you see at powerlifting or in shot put or in those power sports, like the world's strongest men. Oprah is a good example of a Guardian. This is a body that's just more substantial.

And so what's really interesting about these two bodies is that—and I guess the most relevant one, we can start with the Guardian because it's kind of interesting. And then we'll come back to the Crusader, which is more—the most appropriate for general healthy guidelines than any other one.

Lisa: So we run the show as far as…

Dr Cam: We have the other types.

Lisa: ...we have told everybody how to do it all wrong.

Dr Cam: Well, and what's really interesting is that our bodies—because we're unlikely to be obese just with the way our body is made up. That's not good or bad. We die from other things, by the way. We may not die from diabetes.But we might get...

Lisa: What can else haunt us?

Dr Cam: Exactly. Yes. There’s Parkinson's or something not so pleasant like that. So essentially, when we're feeding a Guardian, they've got a body, they walk past a bakery, and they smell it, and they gain weight.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: They have this ability of just accumulating mass at all times. But they have these hormones in their body, and they're more sensitive to prolactin, and they produce more insulin. And these hormones are growth hormones. They make you grow. And so, they have an abundance of these things going on. They have a slightly slower thyroid, which means that they are able to conserve weight very easily. And what's really interesting, psychologically, they're being driven to care for people. So they have the most ability to conserve energy and the most ability to nurture. So you have these big, strong protective individuals.

Now what's really interesting with the timing of food, they’re recommended to have two meals per day, breakfast and lunch and then a very, very light, if not, non-existent dinner. Now, the reason that we do that, particularly with Guardians who are feeling like they wanting to—because this is the body that's most prone to excess weight gain as well. They'll be healthy and obese, but they can also really extend out past that unhealthy obese as well.

And so, what happens overnight is your prolactin and your growth hormones, even insulin release, all of these things are greatest overnight. And the reason for that is when we're sleeping, it’s the best time for our recovery. And so all of these hormones that are associated with growth are the response to the day of spending energy. ‘I spend all this energy. I burn. I then have to recover’.

Now, what's really interesting about the Guardians is that they have like a supercharged ability to grow overnight. And both protein and carbohydrates stimulate growth in different ways, and it's modulated through—insulin is a really great growth factor. It's one of the hormones that are involved. Essentially, if Guardians have a really big protein-carbohydrate meal at night, they get all of these growth factors at a time that they're about to have their biggest growth of the day.

Lisa: Growth anyway. Yes.

Dr Cam: And this is a body that all they do is grow really well. They actually have a different rhythm that's not as catabolic, or doesn't break down as easily. In fact, it's quite anabolic by nature, it grows very easily. When they get stressed, they grow. And so what we want to do is to help this person rather than top up their blood sugar levels, rather than give them protein to feel full, it's actually—these individuals don't get that hungry that often if they're eating the right types of foods.

Essentially, what we see is if we can remove the proteins, carbohydrates, and even the fats at night and have a very light dinner and on sort of that time-restricted feeding, I say, is the way that you can think about it, but it's an early window for the day. What we do is we drop those growth hormones and the growth factors, I should say. We allow their digestive system to do a whole lot more recovery overnight. They'll wake up the next day feeling so much lighter. But we also haven't triggered off their key growth factors, which they already have plenty of anyway.And so all of a sudden, now, instead of growing excess overnight, they're able to start just recovering other systems and processes in their body.

And particularly when you're getting the breakfast and getting the lunch, you're creating stability in their system, then you're just taking away their growth stimulus at night, and they can start losing weight. And what's really fascinating about this, the studies that have shown this is if you can take people with diabetes, you give them six meals per day of 1400 calories, or you give them two meals per day of 1400 calories—breakfast and lunch. And what you see is a one-kilo weight loss for the six meals per day and a five-kilo weight loss for the two meals a day.

Lisa: Massive on the same amount of calories.

Dr Cam: Exactly the same macros, exactly the same calories, it's just that we're changing when it's coming into the body.

Lisa: So these people shouldn't be doing a morning intermittent fast. They should be doing a stop at six o'clock eating type thing.

Dr Cam: Even five.

Lisa: Even five.

Dr Cam: But really, it's about two meals. And if those two meals can be earlier, that's going to be better. And with lunch, is a time when we really tolerate foods very well. There’s a lot of systems that are really supporting us. That's actually a time when the meal can be most substantial as well. And so, this is what's really important if we're thinking about, let's say, reversing diabetes, for example. If we give someone six meals per day, it almost prevents us from doing that.

Lisa: Wow, so you just can't fix it as you’re just getting it a spot.

Dr Cam: And it is why there are so many issues with so many, the dietary protocols out there because so many of that predicated on three meals and two snacks for this body. However, for the Crusaders…

Lisa: For us.

Dr Cam: ...which is the opposite function, they are much more likely to lose weight than gain weight. Obviously, in your exception, it's different when you're running ultramarathons.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: But we're more likely to wither and lose muscle, as opposed to the Guardian that's more likely to accumulate and gain. And so what food has to do for a Crusader is provide energy so that they don't break down. Because food is that important for recovery, and we will...

Lisa: And we’re catabolic by nature.

Dr Cam: Exactly. Food is designed to provide growth to a body that would otherwise be breaking down. And so when we see the need for regular three meals and two snacks throughout the day, and dinner can actually be relatively substantial because overnight, you want this body to take advantage of the recovery. Because if they don't get enough growth, then their immune system doesn't come on, and they start getting sick, and they start breaking down. Whereas the strength of the immune system in The Guardian is so much greater because that's the time that they really ramp up their growth.

So we have this newly-driven body that we're not trying to protect it from diabetes and insulin problems because they don't often have them, particularly insulin resistance, and they have a faster thyroid function so their metabolism is burning hotter. They have all of this mental energy that is burning as well, and that requires more carbohydrates. So essentially, we provide regular meals with carbohydrates to this body, and their brain starts operating really, really well, that decreases their stress. And it's the decrease in stress that allows muscle growth, that allows our waist to reduce. And so, by having more regular food, we actually end up with better body composition for this person. But if we have more regular food for the Guardian, we actually end up with worse.

Lisa: You need to know.

Dr Cam: Whereas if you put two meals per day into the Crusader, now, all of a sudden—because they've run out of fuel because their metabolism turns it over really quickly, they have to dip into their stress hormones to stay energised. So they have to use more cortisol and adrenaline. And what do those hormones do? They break muscle down, and they put fat around your waist.

And so we have this environment for a Crusader, if they're having two meals, they're having to stress and push to stay awake. And now all of a sudden—oh, and to stay alert and on. And now, we're going to have the effects of what those hormones do, which is in that body, they’re with the muscle, and they gain body, and they gain fat around their waist.

Lisa: Wow. So they can—that’s the exact opposite. So Crusaders can be overweight, but that's usually they hold it in the middle of the body around the waist, which is the most dangerous fat—that visceral fat. And with the Guardian—so this is why like some people when they get stressed lose weight, and some people when they get stressed put on weight. And this was always like, ‘Huh? How does that work? Because I thought cortisol always put on fat’. And it does for the Crusader as well, but it puts it on around the middle, and that's because the cortisol has gone up, and you haven't had enough food.

Okay, what about—this is just because I'm off on a tangent again—but autophagy? We all hear about inhibiting mTOR, which is one of the growth pathways. And I'm always like, ‘Okay, I'm an activated Crusader’. I'm on the cusp there. So do I do intermittent fasting or not? I feel like if I'm looking for autophagy and wanting to knock off senescent cells and all of that sort of thing, how do I do that without triggering my body to go into a stress situation?

Dr Cam: Great question. And so, this is what it comes down to then, we spoke about the rhythms at the start of the day—like the daily rhythm, the monthly rhythm, the yearly rhythms. Essentially, when we're looking at the rhythms of the different bodies, a Crusader has quite a quick turnover rhythm. So whereas the Guardian has a much longer slower turnover rhythm.

And so, what I mean by that is if a Crusader does a day or two of intermittent fasting, their metabolism goes, ‘Whoa’, like really hits them because they're always on the edge of their fuel supply. And so the fast hits them a lot faster, but they're their nervous system, which is the thing that's driving stress In their body, that will be impacted quite significantly if they go without food for a period of time. It'll start driving muscle loss and demineralisation to keep the body alert.

And so, for a Crusader, it might be the one day per week that you do that thing just to give yourself a bit of a top up. For example—or to give yourself that effect of autophagy. Whereas for a Guardian, they have this ability to accumulate, and their rhythms are much slower. They can actually go for extended periods of time in that intermittent fasting. It's actually quite beneficial for them because they are more likely to build up toxins, and they're more likely to conserve over time. That state of a semi-fasted life is actually appropriate for them because their body, generally, their rhythms are slower and steadier, and they aren't affected by a lack of caloric intake or a lower caloric intake as much.

Lisa: So for us to do extended fasts as Crusader types, are we putting ourselves at risk then? If so, how do we get rid of that? Because autophagy, just for those listening who don't know what the hell autophagy is, it’s basically recycling when a body goes up, there's not enough food supply around, there's not enough nutrients because their body is sensing the nutrients that's available in our blood, and this can be low protein or low caloric intake. And then it starts to recycle old parts of cells or knock off cells that are damaged and not doing the job properly. And this is a process that we want to have, but as Crusaders, we don't want to tip ourselves into the stressed out state, where we’re actually too catabolic.

So, because there's lots of things going around about fasting and the benefits of fasting. And, again, it is appropriate for one type more than another type or at certain periods of time. So how would you optimise it for a Crusader versus a Guardian?

Dr Cam: Yes. Okay, that's good call. So essentially—probably, the thing to state here is that it's not just food that creates this level of stress or rest and recovery. If you were—let's say, for example, that you're up in some sort of retreat, where they're doing meditations a lot of the day, where you're walking in nature, where it's just very, very gentle surrounds, and there's virtually no stress on your nervous system, and you're able to completely dial out, this is as a Crusader, then you're going to be able to tolerate a much lower food intake for a longer period of time because there's less requirement that's being placed on. You have food.

But if you're in the middle of a busy week and you start fasting, your brains will go in ‘Well, I still want to get stuff done.’ And so your brain is going, ‘Let's do this’. And so in order to do that, you have to create stress hormone responses to keep your brain alive and to break muscle down, turn it into glucose that you can use in your brain for fuel.

Lisa: Oh, we don’t want that.

Dr Cam: So it definitely depends on the environment that you're in as to how long you could do this. But generally, what we say is, if a Crusader is going to be doing some sort of intermittent fasting or something like that, just doing a day per week, and on a day where you can control the amount of stuff that is going on so you're not too narrowly stressed, it's really, really good way of going.

Making sure you're meditating, deep breathing throughout the day, doing some gentle exercise, some stretching, just to really calm your nervous system. You're not having to do really big meetings and really stressful thinking sessions because you want to dial down the thing that's taking all of your energy. And for a Crusader, it's their brain.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And so if that's being used lots, then the body will commit its reserves to looking after the brain. So you have to turn that off in order to do a fast without affecting yourself too much.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: Because if prolonged, you'll start continually breaking down muscle tissue to fuel your brain, and that's not good. And you release a whole lot of calcium from your bones to provide energy in your mitochondria.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: In your little, your muscle tissue within your muscle fibres as well. You need calcium to make muscles contract and do their thing. And if you're stressed and not consuming, you'll release more of that, which is not a good thing either.

Lisa: ...osteoporosis.

Dr Cam: So this is where you will essentially know...Yes, osteoporosis is a big risk for Crusaders. So you will essentially know that if you're doing a semi-fast and you're starting to have the feeling, if you're a Crusader out there, you're having to push to have your energy. When you're using your energy and flow, it should be just this flow of energy that feels good to use when you're doing mental tasks and things like that. If you've fasted for too long, it'll now be this push. It's like, ‘I have to get myself up to do this work’. And that requires...

Lisa: You repel.

Dr Cam: Yes, yes. So if you're starting to get less motivated, and you're getting to the end of a job, and you're just exhausted, I would say you're fasted too long because your body overextending itself.

The thing about Crusaders is their bodies are quite sensitive. You'll be able to pick up on those cues a couple of days in just to see what's going on.

Lisa: That’s really important for people to understand. That again, it's not a one-size-fits-all when you hear everybody talking about intermittent fasting or doing these things on autophagy and inhibiting mTOR and all those sort of things. It's not a one-size-fits-all approach once again. It really needs to be...and just talking about the Guardians to like what we've been saying, sounds all negative. They tend to hold—and I know like my mum complains bitterly when I give her this tiny little meal at nighttime that's full of veggies, and she doesn't get a big steak like I'm eating. And that’s a pain for her at times.

However, her body—to see the advantages of being a Guardian. Like back in the caveman days, she would have survived—I would have been long gone if there was a lack of food supply. She would have carried on and survived. Her immune system is incredibly strong. She's very resilient. She was in a wheelchair for 18 months, and she still had massively strong muscles. She's not catabolic in that, but she has a struggle with her weight. And now we've seem to have cracked the code on it. Because we're doing the meals at the right times most of the time and doing it appropriate for her body, we've had this huge weight loss over a very long period of time.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: And that's the way to do it. That's what you want. You want to sort of do that in a controlled manner. And so there are good—and she's never going to get osteoporosis. Her bones aren't going to break. Mine? Quite likely.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: There's likely to have Alzheimer's even given whose particular situation. So those are some of the benefits just for those listening out there who resonate with that body type. Not to think it's all negative. And we've got an ‘Oh, gosh’, and we have an ‘Oh, good’ some things.

Dr Cam: And to add to that, survival wise, we would have these individuals who are much stronger than everybody else who has a focus on looking after everybody else. The reason that their body is built the way it is is when we go through famine as a community, their body goes into conservation, they start growing, or essentially, they start growing, or they start slowing down their metabolism so that they can provide food for everybody else. There's this internal ‘I must provide’. And so, their body actually assist with that, and it slows down its metabolism, enables it to gain more or at least stop the weight loss. And this is why, for this body, you can actually extend the fast because they have this incredible resilience.

What's interesting about this body is that when you, any kind of stress—mental stress and things like that—if they experience stress, they'll say, ‘Ah, my community mustn't be safe. If I'm stressed, I'm the most resilient and I'm the strongest. So everybody else must be almost dying. So I'm going to start slowing my metabolism down straight away’. And as a result, they're going to take advantage of those hormones that help you grow, like the insulin resistance, the lower thyroid function. They're going to take advantage of those to be stronger for the community.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: And this is a really important piece for any of your Kiwi listeners, particularly Modi and Modi populations.

Lisa: Yes. They’re dominant Guardian.

Dr Cam: They stick out and generally have got this incredible capacity for protection. They're very family-oriented, it's all about protection of the family. And that thing comes from the same thing that makes them big and strong. It also makes them much more tolerant of prolonged fast because their body is designed to be a faster.

What's really interesting is their body was meant to accumulate during great times. And then when the fast came along, they just ate. And as they fast, they get healthier. Like their blood sugar start normalising, whereas the Crusader or the Sensor, that the leanest of the bodies, when they fast, they start breaking down and heading towards disease because they just lack that ability to grow and that ability to accumulate. So the mTOR pathways, which is all about growth, they're actually very protective for Crusaders and senses. And so we don't want to spend too long without them versus a Guardian, Connectors. Some Connectors and Diplomats, they have probably an excess of growth. And so, for them, that pathway is going to be more relevant to modulate or at least you'll be able to influence it for longer with greater effect.

Lisa: And this is why we see in the Polynesian community more diabetes, more cardiovascular disease, more—and then they also have a tendency to like those particular types of foods even more. So when you see with Sensors—it’s another one that we haven't gotten to, but that’s a real ectomorph body—and Crusaders have a tendency to actually want more vegetables and things, and they can actually do with more cooked, slow-cooked meats, and things like that.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: But they have a tendency to like those sort of heavier, fattier, more sugar-rich foods when that's actually the worst thing for them. And that's why we're seeing, unfortunately, so much diabetes, so many metabolic disorders, and so on.

Dr Cam: Yes, well, those foods provide a lot of safety. By having so many calories, it's like, well, ‘If I've got enough weight on, my family is now protected’. And so there's this biological drive to eat foods that are very caloric so that you can have more mass because more mass equals more protection for my family. But if you just go and lift really, really heavy weights, your body feels heavier, your body gets the sense that it's more stable and stronger, and that can actually replace. It's a really interesting one that requirement.

Lisa: Ah, is that right?

Dr Cam: That requirement to feel it. Yes. So there's a feeling of groundedness you get from those very heavy weights, and we also know that it actually creates a bit more growth hormone, a bit more recovery overnight, but it will direct it with the right nutrients and the right exercise to muscle growth rather than fat.

Lisa: So that's why the Diplomat and the Guardian body types, these stronger, heavier body types are really good at heavy weight lifting. And even though—because I have this argument with some of the clients that we have—women who are Guardians or Diplomats, ‘I don't want to do heavy weights. I don't want to put on more muscle mass’. But that it's—again, that’s counterintuitive. So they ended up doing lots of cardio-based stuff, which has its benefits as well, but it doesn't have the quickest response as, say, heavyweight sessions will do.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: Is that right.

Dr Cam: That's exactly right. Yeah. And there's a number of things that need to go on, but essentially, this body needs to feel heavy. There needs to be white in the joints, like there's a joint receptor reflex that sends signals back up to the brain to say ‘You are heavy enough, therefore your family is safe’. And I know it's a bit of a…

Lisa: It’s wow.

Dr Cam: ...a narrative piece, but you only need to get someone doing this, you only need to get a hilltop, like a Guardian or a Diplomat, doing this type of training and understand the benefits of it. It's a very...

Lisa: Visceral thing really. You know what I’m saying.

Dr Cam: It is.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: Visceral is the perfect word.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: I was thinking soulful, but visceral is definitely...

Lisa: Visceral, yes.

Dr Cam: Yes, it resonates because they feel strong.

Lisa: It resonates with the dominant hormones.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: And then there's, yes.

Dr Cam: And they’ve got these massive muscles that are not designed to lift little weights. And their biomechanics actually improve when they start lifting a heavier weight because the whole muscle is engaged in the way that it's supposed to. So it's fascinating. The form has a function, and the form directs optimal function as well if you look at it appropriately.

Lisa: And if you put a heavy weight when on your awry, we are all likely to rip something.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: A tendon or a...

Dr Cam: Or both.

Lisa: We don't like it. Yes.

Dr Cam: Yes, that’s right.

Lisa: We're better suited to medium sort of weight. So still weight training but not the heavy, heavy stuff. And we can do sort of back-to-back sessions as opposed to or back-to-back sets. Whereas with my husband and my brother, when I’m doing training with them, I get them to do a set, have a rest, do a set, have a rest. Not a CrossFit style back-to-back type of training either.

And all of these bits of the puzzle, like getting this information helps you eliminate all the trial and error about working with your body, and so that you get the results that you want and deserve without like—because I bet there's hundreds of people sitting out there now going banging their heads against a brick wall because they've done the wrong thing for the last 20 years. And I was one of them.

Like doing ultramarathons super, super long distance for an Activator-Crusader body type. Not a good combination because I have more short-term strength than I do long-distance endurance. It doesn't mean I can never do it, but it just means that I shouldn't be doing back-to-back ultra marathons, which is what I did, and I end up paying quite a high price with my health.

Whereas for another person, that might be perfectly fine thing to do. Probably not as the extreme of stupidness that I did it because it was just really ridiculous. And so you start—if you put your body in the right environment, get the right foods, eat at the right times of the day, work and do your mental stuff, you'll get health. And you'll get optimal performance, and you'll get longevity, all as a byproduct of doing this in the right... Can we just touch on there, Dr Cam, just before we wrap up? Because I know it's time to wrap up. But the neurotransmitters for each different body type—and we can just go over this quickly, and I think we probably need to spend an hour just on that, but maybe we'll do that next time.

But just as a brief overview. So you said prolactin.That's the caring hormone for the Guardians and Nurturers. This is why these people make wonderful mothers and fathers and tribal leaders and leaders of companies even. Because they're that steady look-after-everybody type. If we go to the Diplomats, what are they? What's their dominant hormone or the hormone that sticks up against?

Dr Cam: They're searching for a balance of serotonin. Serotonin is what you get as a reward for things being pleasurable and enjoyable or calm and steady. So let's say that you go for a run, the longer you run, the more serotonin you get in saying, ‘Hey, calm down. You've done well. You've achieved’. And so when you finish exercise, the thing that's kind of keeping that calm and that pleasurable craziness that you feel after some sort of exercise, that's serotonin, or if you do a job well. And so this body— because they're searching for doing a job well, they'll take more time to consider before they do anything. Because they want to make sure they get the job done well so they get their serotonin. Because if they don't get their serotonin, they get very demotivated.

Lisa: I didn’t understand aptly...

Dr Cam: So they start ruminating, and they start thinking about things. And when people rush and they go, ‘Well, I've got to think about this again because I want to make sure I do it well’. And so they'll slow down. The best example for this is kids. You got a kid who's a bit taller, stronger kind of build, just does not do mornings well. And you say, ‘Hey, let's get out of the house right now’. And they're like, ‘Oh’, and then they go slower. And this is because they're like, ‘Well, I need to get my serotonin. I thought I was going fast. I wasn't. So I'm gonna have to rethink what I was doing’. And then they reprocess the whole game again, and then they get there eventually.

So serotonin is about pleasure, but it also moderates the speed at which people make decisions and how willing they are to take action. You've got lots of serotonin, you'll be very optimistic and so...

Lisa: I'm laughing because this is my husband, and we have this fight every day. ‘Cause I’m like, ‘Let's go to the beach and do some skimboarding or surfing or something’. And he's like, ‘Oh, you've just dropped it on me’. And I'm like, ‘What do you mean? It's not a very hard thing to run down the beach’. For heaven's, he's got to have this done and that done and this ticked off and...

Dr Cam: You’re violating the plan.

Lisa: And I’m like, ‘Ugh’.

Dr Cam: You’re ruining his ability to get serotonin. It’s a violation of his biology. That’s right.

Lisa: Oh, I have to go and apologise.

Dr Cam: But then the Activator, obviously, they're searching for adrenaline.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And so the perfect example is they want change. They want unknown, they want excitement, they want action. And so, instead of thinking about something and really planning it out, it's like, ‘How boring is that? I know exactly what's going to happen. So I need to throw something in that wasn't planned, otherwise’. And this is you see kids got this in school, where they are sitting in the class with a monitor and teacher sitting down, and all they want is move and excitement, and they sit, and they start making noise. ‘Ah! Miss!’ And they start throwing aeroplanes around the room because it gives them adrenaline, which makes their biology feel great.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And so now all of a sudden, they feel really safe because they're doing something that's exciting, that is the opposite to the serotonin drive. And this is what's really important. And the funny thing is, as the universe would have it, you see a lot of couples that may…

Lisa: They’re opposite. That makes sense.

Dr Cam: Activator-Diplomat. And they are dealing with this their whole life until they realize that it's actually in their strength to work together.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And then we have the Crusader, which is dopamine. So prolactin, the Guardian, is selflessness. It's ‘I’m going to do things for other people. I've got enough so I'm going to do for others’. Dopamine is ‘I'm going to do for me to get the outcome that I want’. And so it creates drive, focus. I've got—it's going to provide energy and make you feel great towards the mission. So as long as there's a mission, there'll be dopamine that's going through the Crusaders brain, locking into their reward centre and saying, ‘I must finish this’. And everything else just goes by the wayside—people, relationships, other jobs, all of that sort of stuff. ‘Because this is the way that we're going, this is what I'm being provided reward for. So this is the outcome that I want’.

And so this hormone makes you a little bit selfish, but you can actually—for example, Lisa is doing this podcast to influence thousands of people every month for their benefit, but she's doing it for herself. And this is the thing that we allow, we—the person who cures cancer is doing it for… Let's say it's a Crusader, they do it for themselves, but it influences positively many, many people.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: It's not to say selfish and selfless are good or bad; it's just the way that the biology must interact with the world in order to feel safe. And so we must do things for ourselves as a Crusader, but it can positively benefit many.

Lisa: Yes. You can pick missions that are gonna benefit the world. I mean, the head of ph is a good example, isn't it? Yes. So you got to meet the—but you have a huge capacity to go on a mission and achieve incredible things and incredible amounts of things because you're so driven, but you have a tendency to bust yourself in the process and burn out.

Dr Cam: Yes. That’s right.

Lisa: And that's a lot of oxidative stress if you're on the Activator side of things.

Dr Cam: Lots of inflammation. Yes, for the Crusaders, that’s for sure.

Lisa: Yes, yes.

Dr Cam: And what they need is they need to turn that off every now and again.

Lisa: That’s hard.

Dr Cam: Just like Guardians. Guardians need to do things for themselves too. They need to be selfish sometimes, and if they don't, they get sick. The same thing, Crusaders need to turn off and get off mission for a second every now and again.

Lisa: And relax. This is for all body types, it's really important to do the calming breath-holding exercises and the Pilates and the yoga and being in nature and doing those things that turn the brain off. Because otherwise we're just on, on, on, and then you tend to wind up and then crash and then wind up and then crash.

Dr Cam: That’s right. But too many of those meditative exercises and you start getting anxious that you're not getting enough done. And so it's finding that balance...

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: ...of resting the mind at the best time and chronobiologically, between 6 and 10 pm, is the time when your brain is going through its best recovery. And so if you use meditation at that time, it has more impact than it would have other times, and this is where chronobiology actually comes into the mind side of things too.

And so then we have Connectors and Sensors. So Connectors are the most social, socially inclined hilltop. They have oxytocin, which is driving their response to the environment. So oxytocin is the trust and connection hormone.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: Essentially, what they'll look to do is they'll look to create trust and connection with as many people as possible. And the way that they do that, they actually have a very powerful visual cortex, which means that when they look at somebody, they can determine their emotional state from their face.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: Then they have this ability to be a chameleon. They'll then match themselves to the person, and when you match a person's state, you create trust through commonality in resonance, essentially.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: And so they have this ability to immediately fall into trust with people, which gives them their oxytocin, which they get from that connection, which then makes them feel good, and they can keep going.

The trouble with this, though, is if you're trying to keep people happy all of the time, which is an important part of this, and you're not happy within yourself, it becomes inauthentic. And so then you end up chasing little droplets of oxytocin from lots of different strangers. Whereas what we need to do is really, really need to encourage Connectors to have very strong stable relationships like a dog and his owner. And the animal totem for help for the Connector is the puppy.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: And this is because like the strength of that primary bond, what that does is it keeps a flood of oxytocin going through their body all of the time.

Lisa: They’re not chasing it in the wrong places.

Dr Cam: Exactly. And then they can go out, and they can get their little top-ups and keep the community together, which is an incredible strength.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: It's to keep people together and keep people connected. Not everyone can do that, and they have that ability. What's really interesting, though, is if they have a bad social experience, oxytocin will get tagged with that negative emotion.

Lisa: Oh.

Dr Cam: So the next time they look to connect with somebody, it might actually be harder because they remember the bad thing that happened before. So the more positive, the more transparent, and the more best friend relationships that they can have, where they can just be themselves and be completely open and completely trusted, that allows them to constantly associate oxytocin with the great thing and great feelings, which then allows them to express themselves best as well.

Lisa: It's incredible.

Dr Cam: The impact of having very honest and non-judgmental friends is going to be really, really important for a Connector.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: Versus for a Sensor. Sensors are vasopressin dominant. Vasopressin is a—it’s like a survival mechanism. It essentially helps you hold on to everything. This is the leanest, slightest body. They have the smallest amount of muscle tissue and fat tissue. And essentially, their body is set up to ‘I need to protect myself because I don't have the capacity, the physical capacity’…

Lisa: Strength.

Dr Cam: …‘to actually look after other people. I need an environment that's nice and quiet. I need food that's nice and warm because I don't have a whole lot of insulation. I need an environment that is warm as well because I don't have much thermoregulation’, all of that sort of stuff. ‘I need just sensory dial down’.

And so when you've got a body like this, when they get stressed, the vasopressin creates fluid or tension at the kidneys, and it essentially lets you hold on to all of your good stuff. It creates essentially a little bit of jealousy. ‘I like one thing at a time’. They really like monogamy in everything like, ‘One thing at a time because I can focus on one thing at a time because that's very certain’. They like certainty because lack of certainty is risky for them because they don't have much reserve in the tank. If they're out in the wilderness, ‘I need to know exactly where my food is, because I've only got a day or two of survival in my body’, or as a Guardian, for weeks. It’s...

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: So as a result, their brain will be hyper-aware of the environment. They’ll be less trusting because they need certainty, and they'll want as much information as possible. They'll want to collect as much data as possible before they trust anything. And so Connectors will just be looking for trust all of the time everywhere with no information.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Cam: Sensors will be looking for as much data, as much certainty, as much security as possible. And then they'll say, ‘Okay, this all makes logical sense. This is not a risk to me or my body. Okay, now, I'm good to put some faith in this person’. And so they'll be excellent data gatherers. They'll really make sure that they understand people, and they'll want conversations that ask for the fifth and sixth, ‘Why?’

Lisa: Why.

Dr Cam: ‘Why do you do that? And why do you do this’? We asked a few Sensors, ‘Why is that so important to you’? And they said it's because ‘The deeper I get, I get to understand this person's intentions and as to whether they're trustworthy or not’. And so they are really investigating and collecting to do that. And it's their brain that’s asking.

Lisa: And so very sceptical by nature, so very good at analysing data, and being able to sift through lots of—so they're very neurally-focused. So you see a lot of people in this type going into, say the sciences and so very neurally-driven professions.

Dr Cam: That's right. And not quite as sceptical as Crusaders. When you've got like a bit of adrenaline and testosterone and this stuff going on, that's when you get scepticism. When we're talking about Sensors, they're actually quite open, but they will only do things that make sense. And if they've got something that works for them right now, they won't change it. And I've had clients that have got a result in the first few months, and then I see them four years later, and they're still doing the same thing, even though they have actually needed to change it.

Lisa: Yes. Doing it all.

Dr Cam: And that’s where they've credit security out of this information.

Lisa: Stuck.

Dr Cam: ‘Certainty is good. I can trust this information, therefore I'll continue with it even if my body starts not feeling great. This came from a certain place, so I'm going to trust it, and then I’ll look for other things’. So they are quite open as long as the information is provided logically, systematically, and compartmentalise one thing at a time because that's how their brain really works.

Lisa: So they need to ask a lot of why's. And of this body type, you have a lot of people that are often quite often vegan or vegetarian, which is actually not the greatest for the body types.

Is that right?

Dr Cam: No. Well, this body is, generally, they don't have the strongest digestion, they will get less hydrochloric acid production. They have a greater need for minerals and a greater need for growth. And the protein is actually quite important for them in that sense for both the minerals and the growth factors. But often, because they're very sensitive to the environment, their nervous system makes them very sensitive, they tend away from things that maybe have ethical issues, or they don't feel so great about eating this meat or whatever it is, where they get huge benefits out of doing that. And eating raw vegan, for example, can be particularly bad for this individual because they just don't have the capacity to digest all of those.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Cam: Very tough fibres. And they need a bit more help. And even if the food is very cold, and they need warmth in their body because the cold will actually reduce their stomach acid even further. So going for warm cooked vegetables would actually be a really, really great start, but then aging in some protein that can provide those minerals and that extra growth.

Lisa: And stuff.

Well, Dr Cam, this has been an absolutely mindblowing episode. I think if you haven't kind of way going, ‘Wow, I need to know what I am’, and if you do reach out to us because that's what we do.

Dr Cam, thank you very much. And you're going to be a repeat offender again on the show regularly throughout the year, covering different scientific topics around the genetic side of things and epigenetics. So thank you very much for sacrificing your time today. Really, really appreciate it. And I learn a lot every time I get to talk to you so it's been a real privilege again to have you on.

Dr Cam: It's so good to be here again, Lisa. I'm looking forward to the stuff coming in the future too.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Dr Thomas Levy is a cardiologist and a lawyer and author of more than 13 books including his latest "Rapid Virus Recovery." In this podcast, we discuss ways to boost our immunity and protect ourselves from viruses. Our bodies are more capable than we think. If it has the correct nutrients, the human body can simultaneously recover from viruses and/or protect itself from them. We just need to make sure that we are supporting its innate abilities and Dr Levy gives us a list of things we can do to protect ourselves.

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Episode Highlights [02:22] Dr Thomas’ Latest Book, Rapid Virus Recovery * Before the pandemic, Dr Thomas had been researching Vitamin C and hydrogen peroxide nebulisation. * He found that hydrogen peroxide is a natural product that the human body already produces in large amounts. * The epithelial cells that line your lung airways produce hydrogen peroxide that acts as anti-pathogens. * In addition, the human body converts up to 5% of the oxygen you inhale into hydrogen peroxide. * Dr Thomas shares that people can achieve a true recovery from the virus so much faster when we optimise our body’s ability to protect and heal itself.

[06:37] Clinical Recovery Is Not True Recovery * The healthcare industry focuses on treatment methods that generate profit — hospitalisation, medication, therapy, and intubation. * Even if you clinically get better from the virus, it does not mean that you have eliminated it from your body. * 40% of novel virus positive patients become sick even after they recover from an acute episode. * All diseases involve excess oxidation, which stimulates the growth of new pathogens and toxins in your gut and cells.

[10:35] Is Hydrogen Peroxide Dangerous? * Hydrogen peroxide can kill pathogens both inside and outside the body. * Remember that many prescription drugs can be toxic when applied inappropriately and with the wrong dosage and concentration. * When nebulising 3% hydrogen peroxide, you can raise your blood oxygen level by 3% in around 1 minute. * Listen to the full episode to hear how a woman in Colombia treated twenty of twenty patients with advanced infection of the novel virus successfully in just five days!

[15:09] Don’t Be Afraid, Let Your Body Heal Itself * Don’t be afraid of the novel virus — you can address it using easily-accessible methods. * Hydrogen peroxide nebulisation is not just for novel viruses — it can also help treat cancers. Dr Thomas shares how it can normalise the gut and cure tumours in the full episode. * Cancers are caused by excess oxidative stress, which leads to chronic pathogen colonisation. * When you give your body more oxygen and nutrients, you give it the chance to heal itself. Utilise hydrogen peroxide nebulisation, hyperbaric oxygen treatments, and even vitamin C!

[24:40] How Vitamin C Works With Hydrogen Peroxide * It's vital to remember to balance the effects of what you take — there are cases when you want pro-oxidant substances, like Vitamin C. * Dr Thomas shares that taking large amounts of Vitamin C can help the hydrogen peroxide break down. * This combination then leads to an oxidative effect that kills pathogens * Vitamin C can also produce more peroxide from which cells can mobilise iron. This iron then further supports the way Vitamin C and hydrogen peroxide work together. * Listen to the full episode to hear the in-depth explanation of how Vitamin C, hydrogen peroxide, and iron all work together.

[30:43] How Iron Works * All pathogens, cancers, and infections accumulate iron. The more iron you have, the more it can fuel pathogens. * However, iron key links can bring cancers and infections under control. * For people with too much iron, also called hemochromatosis, you can manage and mobilise iron levels with vitamin C therapies.

[33:37] Vitamin C Is Essential for Health * Remember that inflammation means high oxidation levels in certain areas, which causes a depletion of Vitamin C. * Your body will fight against this inflammation using its antioxidants. * Dr Thomas argues that the immune system is all about supplying antioxidants in the form of Vitamin C. * If your cells, like macrophages, can't do their job due to a lack of Vitamin C, then you can help boost its cell absorption by combining a low dose of hydrocortisone with vitamin C.

[37:30] Vitamin C Can Also Be Used to Cure Sepsis * Dr Thomas shares that curing sepsis can be as easy as taking 12.5 to 25 grams of Vitamin C every six hours. * When you have high cortisol levels due to sepsis, you don't need to use cortisone. * You need Vitamin C to reduce the oxidised receptors and normalise your cortisol. * Cortisone is beneficial for those who have had their adrenal glands removed and can no longer produce cortisol on their own.

[42:03] Vaccine Side Effects * Many vaccines use spike proteins instead of an inactivated virus, hoping to create antibodies to protect against the virus. * However, the spike protein can replicate on its own and, in many cases, be a toxin itself. * Different side effects often depend on the spike protein’s binding site. For example, when it binds to the vascular endothelial, it can lead to blood clots. * Remember that once a pathogen enters and colonises your body, it will linger unless you eliminate them all. * You can treat viruses, vaccine side effects, and even fungal infections with vitamin C and hydrogen peroxide.

[51:08] What Happens In The Body When There Are Spike Proteins * It’s logical to think that having a lot of spike proteins in your body may deny the natural function of cells and their H2 receptors. * Side effects are not just dependent on spike protein's binding site — it can also be people's area of susceptibility to increased oxidative stress.

[55:00] How The Pandemic Will End * This pandemic can end faster when more people achieve true recovery using hydrogen peroxide nebulisation. * When people are afraid, they listen to only one narrative. * Take ownership of your health and figure out what’s best for you

7 Powerful Quotes ‘Here's something that just about killed my extremely healthy 50-year-old best friend, and when is it going to hit me? So I understand the fear. However, you should understand... you don't have to have that fear because we have the information and the techniques to deal with it across the board.’

‘The healthcare industry is not the slightest bit interested in spending millions of dollars on research on something that will generate them nothing. Quite the contrary to generating nothing, it will take money out of their pocket and take away prolonged expensive hospitalisations, and antibiotics and intubations, and you name it.’

‘Actually, it shouldn't come as a surprise because your body has a mechanism if you support that mechanism for dealing with killing any pathogen you encounter. I mean, if the body didn't have that, we'd all be dead and we would have never survived as a species’.

‘If you don't do the legwork, and study for yourself, and figure out what's best for you, but instead, just walk into the doctor's office and say, “Here's my warm body, do whatever you think is best”, it's only you that's going to suffer.’

‘If you have a physician that doesn't have the time or inclination to talk with you and discuss things that you want clarification on, don't walk — run out of that office!’

‘Unless you have a specific biofilm-dissolving pathogen-killing intervention, such as hydrogen peroxide, but it's not the only thing that will do that, you're going to keep that colonisation for life. And this is why people have bowel disorders for life.’

‘Not everybody has that ability to do that or their willingness to do that. But you have to take responsibility for yourself. Nobody else can take that away from you. You really do have to put in the hard yards.’

About Dr Thomas Levy Dr Thomas Levy is a board-certified cardiologist and a bar-certified attorney. After practising adult cardiology for 15 years, he began to research the enormous toxicity associated with much dental work, as well as the pronounced ability of properly administered vitamin C to neutralise this toxicity. He has now written 11 books. Several of them address the wide-ranging benefits of Vitamin C and its capacity to neutralise toxins and resolve most infections, as well as its vital role in the effective treatment of heart disease and cancer. Others tackle the essential roles of dental toxicity and nutrition in disease and health.

Recently inducted into the Orthomolecular Medicine Hall of Fame, Dr Levy continues to research the impact of the orthomolecular application of vitamin C and antioxidants in general on chronic degenerative diseases. His ongoing research involves documenting that all diseases are different forms and degrees of focal scurvy arising from increased oxidative stress, especially intracellular. Furthermore, they all benefit from protocols that optimise the antioxidant levels in the body.

He regularly gives lectures on this information at medical conferences around the world. If you want to learn more from Dr Levy, you may contact him at televymd@yahoo.com or through his website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you were inspired to do your hard yards, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they too can find true recovery from diseases.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Do you ever pay much attention to your feet? Our feet are our first point of contact with the ground, and we walk around on them all day. But most people just wear shoes and call it a day. And if you’re a runner, then all the more reason to maintain good foot health! So how do we take care of our feet?

Dave Liow, an exercise physiologist and holistic movement coach, joins me in this episode to discuss feet and how to optimise foot health. We talk about some common foot conditions, and he also shares advice on selecting the right shoes and improving foot mechanics.

For runners and everyone else, don’t miss this episode and learn how you can achieve good foot health!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how to take better care of your feet. 2. Discover the benefits of going barefoot. 3. Learn how to select the right shoe for you.

Resources * Holistic Movement Coach on YouTube * The HMC Footy Show, foot exercises on YouTube * How to start looking after your feet on YouTube * Exercises for bunions on YouTube * Holistic Movement Coach website

Episode Highlights [03:29] Why Feet?

  • When he started looking at movement, Dave noticed that the feet were one of the areas trainers had no idea about.
  • People have 28 bones in the feet and 55 articulations from below the knee. Over a third of the bones here are in the feet, which tells us how important they are.
  • It’s an area largely being neglected by movement experts and professionals.

[05:45] What Shoes Do to Our Feet * So much space in the brain is devoted to our feet and hands, and if you walk around with sensory deprivation chambers on them, you’ll lose that space. * The bottom of the foot (plantar fascia) is extremely precarious, full of reflectors that send information to your brain about how you’re moving and interacting with the ground. * By wearing shoes, we break that link.

[09:56] Improving Foot Mechanics and Foot Health * Keep your feet out of shoes as much as possible. Whenever Dave has the chance to go barefoot, he does.

  • By going barefoot, you are giving as much information to your feet as you possibly can.
  • Shoes provide a lot of support for your feet. Not wearing shoes will improve your feet’s strength.
  • A healthy foot is a mobile foot. If you can’t do a lot with your toes, it shows you need to do some conditioning on your feet to make them smarter and stronger.
  • Plantar fasciitis is one of the most common foot problems runners encounter. Listen to the full episode to learn more about some of the most common foot conditions!

[17:21] Bunions and How They Affect Your Foot Health * The exact cause of bunions is up for debate, but there is certainly a genetic and environmental component to it. * A bunion is when your big toe starts to go in and some calcification forms around the joint. * Bunions cause compressions in the foot, leading to problems in the nerves between the bones of your foot. * There should be adequate space between your toes, allowing your foot to move and breathe. This also applies to your footwear—your shoe should have a wide toe box to give your toes enough space. * You can do foot exercises for bunions to prevent the need for surgical treatment.

[24:10] How to Deal with Plantar Fasciitis * Typically, people who have plantar fascia issues will feel the bottom of their foot locked up, especially in the morning. * Increasing your running distance too quickly and incorrect foot mechanics are common causes of plantar fasciitis. * Icing the foot takes some of the pain away. Applying light pressure on the affected area can hydrate the tissues and make them healthier. * Adding the right kind of load to it will help line up the fibres and make it strong again. * Movement issues can disappear if you keep your body balanced.

[29:55] On Running Shoes * Dave and Lisa talk about a shoe that reportedly takes 4% of your running time. * More track records are broken lately due to the improvement in the technology used to create running shoes. These new shoes are all about sports and performance, not health. * There are different types of shoes for different purposes. * Being barefoot all time can also cause issues because what goes on your skin can absorb what goes on it.

[37:11] The Truth about High Heels * When you add an incline to your heel, it lifts you and pushes you forward, breaking your kinetic chain. * To avoid falling on their faces, people who wear high heels adjust by pushing their posture forward and arching the lower back more. * When you’re in high heels, you’re effectively pointing your toes. This shortens the calf muscles, which can end up reducing the motion in your ankle, pulling you into pronation, and collapsing the arch. * Wearing high heels often can change the way your muscles work.

[44:21] Supplementation for the Cartilage and Joints * Dave reads up on what he thinks is useful and what’s not, and he uses it on an individual basis. * A decent multivitamin is a good place to start. * Dave is a fan of probiotics and fish oil. However, if you’re sensitive to histamine, do your research first before taking probiotics. * He also recommends working fermented food like kimchi and sauerkraut into your diet if it suits you.

[51:08] Dave’s Take on Orthotics * Dave thinks if you have a foot without a structural issue or a neurological deficit, you can do without orthotics. * Orthotics provide support and are often prescribed to block motion. * Foot mechanics change when you have your foot on the ground versus in the air. A lot of the mechanics that are put into orthotics aren’t done in a closed chain, which changes the whole way the foot works. * If you think you may need an orthotic, consult first with someone who knows how they work and can give you proper advice. * Dave takes a holistic approach when it comes to foot health

[1:00:06] Dave’s Experience with Reflexology * There are different types of reflexology, but it’s often associated with feet. * The idea is your body is represented in smaller areas of your body that you can access. * Dave has tried reflexology on himself, and it worked well. * He particularly had some good results with the sinus points around the toes, which help to clear the sinuses. * He finds it relaxing, because looking after your feet is looking after your whole body—it’s all connected.

[1:02:52] How to Select the Right Shoe * Be careful of the marketing of shoe science. * In reality, it isn’t the shoe that makes the difference. * Pick a neutral shoe that feels good. * Research shows the more comfortable your shoe is, the more efficient you are. * Get the lightest and the most minimalist shoe that you are happy with.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘I’m constantly dumbfounded by how little care people have taken on their feet’.

‘The foot and the ankle are a huge player in my model and certainly one that I think having a very big impact on how people move well’.

‘Shoe choice doesn’t start and finish when you’re done running—it’s throughout the day’.

‘Be careful where you expose your feet to because it will go in you and then we'll take it into your health. There's time and place for everything’.

‘It’s not about speed and power… It’s keeping everything as best as you can in optimal performance and stopping things before they fall down the cliff and being in that preventative space’.

‘If you think you can get everything out of your diet, even if you’re eating organic, you probably can’t… So certainly, some supplementation is useful’.

‘It’s not the shoe that does the running; it’s the person that does the running. Technique and conditioning and looking after yourself and your health has much more effect than a shoe ever will’.

About Dave Liow Having mentored many coaches and trainers in New Zealand and Australia, Dave Liow is following his passion for sport and health and love for teaching. As a health professional, exercise physiologist and the founder of the Holistic Movement Coach Programme, he is constantly striving to find ways to be healthier and move better.

You may connect with Dave on LinkedIn or Facebook. You can also visit his website or watch his YouTube videos to learn how to take better care of your feet.

Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to achieve good foot health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of the Podcast! Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing The Limits this week. So I have two guests. Dave Liow this time. Now Dave is a repeat offender on the show, and I love having him to guest. He is one of my great mentors. And I hope you're gonna get a lot out of today's session.

Today, it's all about feet or so. This is one for the runners out there for sure. But also for just optimizing your foot health and also the whole kinetic chain, your feet where you connect with the ground obviously, and it affects your whole body. So we go to a deep dive into looking after yourself in regards to your feet. For the runners out there, it's all about playing for charters and bunions and picking the right running shoes. But there's also a whole lot of need for people to just have—want to know about good foot health.

Before we head over to the show, Christmas is coming. So if you want to grab one of my books, or one of my jewellery pieces, I’ll love that. You can head over to lisatamati.com. All the things are on there. And we're gonna be having a little break over the Christmas period. Maybe one, maybe two weeks from the show. I'm not quite sure at the stage, depending on the team's requirements over that period. So I hope you do have a good time of the Christmas. If you're listening to this afterwards, I hope the New Year's starting off really well for you.

Before I go over to the show, just a reminder, I do have a couple of places left. We're nearly full on our one-on-one consultations, health optimization coaching. If you have a problem that you'd like to get help with, whether it's a high performance, whether you're a top athlete and wanting to get to the next level, whether you're wanting to work on your mindset, or maybe you've got a really complicated health challenge that you're just not getting any answers for, or you're having trouble sifting through all of the information and getting the right stuff—then please reach out to me, lisa@lisatamati.com. Right. Now over to the show with Dave Liow from the Holistic Movement Coach.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone. Welcome back. Today I have the amazing, the incredible, awesomest, Dave Liow on the show. Dave, welcome back, repeat offender.

Dave Liow: Hi Lisa.

Lisa: I'm super stoked to have you today.

Dave Liow: For the podcast you mean, right?

Lisa: You’re a repeat offender for the podcast. Coming back to give us more. Not an offender in any other way.

Dave is an expert that I've had on before and he's definitely one of my mentors. And he's been to—Neil, my business partner for many years. And he is a mentor to many of the coaches and top trainers in New Zealand and Australia. So that's Dave's background. And you've got a background in physiology, don’t you Dave?

Dave: Yes.

Lisa: You have a company called the Holistic Movement Coach. And will you—we're going to talk today about feet. People are like, ‘Wow, that's really interesting topic to talk about’. But it is. It's really, really exciting. Last time we had you on the show, we talked about the science of life, and that was one of the most popular episodes. So I'm really…

Dave: Great!

Lisa: …happy to have you back on and to share some more of your absolute amazing wisdom. So today we've picked feet. What are we gonna to talk about, Dave? What are we going to share about feet and what you need to be aware of?

Dave: Well feet’s one of those interesting ones. So from—as a movement professional, which is really my background. Though, being a holistic movement coach, if you just look at movement, you're gonna come unstuck pretty soon. So when I started looking at movement though, one of the things that I noticed that was one of the areas that were neglected were feet.

So we're seeing or looking at people's lumbar spines all the time and come to wideness not losing link from the top of the head. But a lot of trainers and movement professionals weren't even looking at people's feet. They had no idea what was going on, underneath those shoes of theirs.

So for those of you who might think about maybe the back, whatever. Imagine if someone was wearing a big potato sack over their whole body, and you couldn't see where the spine was at trying to train them. So trying to work with someone and get them to move well without looking at their feet is to me just crazy.

Lisa: Yes, nonsensical.

Dave: Yeah. And we've got 28 bones in the feet. So 28 bones, and we've got 55 articulations from below the knee.

Lisa: Wow.

Dave: So over a third of the bones are in the feet there. So that tells you about just how important that area is there. We have a look at the muscles that run down below the knee too. We've got 50 muscles. So added it, 276 ortho muscles, I think that's about right muscles. We have 50 below the knee so that shows you just how important there is. And it's an area that I think has been largely neglected by moving professionals.

Lisa: Yes, it makes the total amount of sense. And we are on them all day, and we just shove them in a pair of shoes. And sometimes those shoes, you know, like ladies' high-heeled shoes, and tight shoes, and badly shaped shoes and don't do a lot barefoot—going out barefoot. Let’s start there, let’s start like—what does shoes do? When we put a pair of shoes on our feet? What sort of things are we taking away from our brain? Like, I always liken it to going around with a pair of gloves on my hands all day. I'm not going to be able to paint a picture and initiate anything, am I? Because I've just taken away all my proprioception and my ability to coordinate those fine motor controls with my hands. So we get that sort of analogy but actually, we do that to our feet all the time.

Dave: And that's a wonderful analogy, Lisa. And so the representation in your brain of your body is called homunculus. So your brain has representations of all your different body parts. And some body parts are represented very, very—have a very large representation in the brain because they may have a lot of sensation and require a lot of fine movement.

So there's a huge representation in your brain of your face because if you look at the number of expressions you can do, and the articulations you can do with your tongue, your lips—there's a lot of area in the brain devoted to the face. Same with the hands as well. So you look at the fine movements you can do in your hands, isn't it? And how pink your hands are say compared to your elbow. It's incredible how much space in the brain is devoted to the hand.

Now one other is the feet. The feet have a massive representation in the brain as well. But with that, though, we know the brain is plastic. It can evolve and it will adapt to whatever environment you're putting it into. If you're walking around with that, the gloves on your hand, or in this case as one of my mentors Phillip Beach would say, ‘With sensory deprivation chambers on your feet’…

Lisa: Wow.

Dave: ‘…you will lose that representation in your brain’. And the bottom of the feet is extremely propiocept. Isn’t it? So many on that plantar fascia, that part of the foot there, is full of receptors which send information up to your brain. Giving you information about where you are, how you're interacting with the ground, and how you're moving. And without that, and by breaking that link there, there's a price to pay.

Lisa: Yes, yes. And we just willy nilly wear shoes from the day we're born, pretty much. And if we're lucky in childhood, we might have run around bare feet a little bit. But most of us have got his feet and shoes all day. So you're saying that the—what did you call it? the munculus?

Dave: Homunculus.

Lisa: Humunculus?

Dave: Homunculus.

Lisa: I never heard one before. I did, like, hear the representations. Like I don't know where I picked this up, some podcasts, some ways, something. If you have two fingers that you tape together for say a month.

Dave: Yes.

Lisa: When you untape them, you are unable to move them separately because the brain has wired them as being one unit. Another example of this is where people—they lose a limb. The brain still has the representation of that limb, even though the limbs are gone and they feel the pain of that limb. And this is like, the brain is like, ‘Hey, why? Where's my arm gone? Where's my leg gone’? or whatever.

And we're doing this to much lesser degree but when we don't need our toes and our things wiggle and wobble and do the proprioception. Okay, and we can improve our performance. Now, as runners are listening to us, let's talk about a little bit why this is important for runners to be able to sense the grounds and have good proprioception. So what are some of the advantages of having good—taking good care of our feet and maybe going bare feet a little bit.

Dave: Oh, massive. One of my buddies, one of the things he has around feet—he has a lot of background in horse training. And he says, ‘No foot, no horse’. If you have a horse which damaged his hoof, then that's pretty much the end of that horse. They can't do a lot. And for you being an ultra-runner, Lisa, I'm sure you understand when your foot goes wrong.

Lisa: Oh, yes. I'm in trouble.

Dave: Yes, you are, you're in a lot of trouble. So I'm constantly dumbfounded by how little care people have take on their feet. I work on my feet every day without fail.

Lisa: Wow.

Dave: I'm certainly not an ultra-runner. I'm not the same class as you guys. But the amount of care that I take on one of my major movement teachers… I know this time when I lift…

Lisa: So okay, what are some of the things that you would do to improve your foot mechanics and your proprioception and stuff? I mean, obviously, it's a little bit difficult with our podcasts and we can't show. I’ve got some video but…

Dave: So there's that saying, ‘use it or lose it’. If your foot’s in a sensory deprivation chamber, you're gonna lose it pretty quick. So I like my foot to be out of things as much as possible, though...

Lisa: Like right now?

Dave: Yes. Quite a surprise, no shoe. Yes, I don't really wear shoes much. I wear [10:14 unintelligible] more than other shoes. If I'm running off-road, I'll certainly—and on concrete—I’ll wear some shoes. And we'll kind of talk about the shoe design a bit later on. But whenever I can go barefoot, I will. So if I can give as much information to my feet as possible—that's going to keep them smart, but also gonna keep them strong because shoes add support. That's what they are.

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: You will not believe how much support shoes add. And you'll notice when you take them away, if you try and run barefoot, if you've been wearing sickly shoes with a lot of stability that added in there. So by going barefoot a fair amount of time, you get a very strong foot as well. So that doesn't come down to running shoes. And I guess we'll talk about running shoes in a bit.

But if you're wearing running shoes all day, even when you're not running, well, you're adding support there 24/7. I understand that some people might want more support when you're running, when you've got high forces going through your feet, but walking around and running shoes all day or highly-supportive shoes. You're basically walking around with.

Lisa: Crutches. Yes, and making yourself lazy. You're making yourself lazy. Yes.

Dave: Yes, right. So you're certainly going barefoot as much as possible. Now I do a lot of work at night to make sure that my foot’s mobile. A healthy foot is a mobile foot. So one of the things that they’ll often say is ‘the foot is not a hoof’. A hoof is rock solid and hits the ground and off the coast. So look at what you can do with your hand. Okay, you should do an awful lot with your toes as well and get them moving. So if you've lost the ability to do that, it really shows that you need to do some conditioning work on your feet and get them smarter and stronger.

Lisa: And if you don't, this is where some problems come up. If you can wiggle your toes and all that sort of stuff, you can prevent issues like yes—let's look at a couple of a common running problems that people get. Things like plantar fasciitis is a biggie, or even going up the leg a little bit. Like shin splints, and the problems in the calf, in the Achilles. Are these coming from the feet at all?

Dave: Well, they’re coming from running. And there's some sort of mechanics going on there. But think of the foot, that's your first contact with the ground. When that goes wrong, everything in the chain will [12:37 unintelligible]. And if we think about something like a marathon, you've got 30 to 50,000 impact on the ground. That's a lot of race. So something's going wrong. This repetition over and over and over again. That's gonna end up breaking you.

And we're talking about forces, which you can't—two to five times your body weight depending how you're running. Now that’s a hell of force, a hell of a repetition. If something's not working right there, you will pay the price. Will you pay that price? Well, it depends.

But if we look at running injuries, straight off the top. Probably 15% of those will be at the knee. So the knee is normally the one that pays the price. But you know, I often say this in my lectures. Knee’s a dump. I knew that they kind of extracted and they've been—they have a little bit of rotation. But you see that one too much. And they have a little bit of sideways motion, but you don’t want too much of that either. So the knees are dump. So it's not only the knees fault that the knee gets some problems. It's normally the foot and ankle, or it's normally the hip, that's normally where I'll go.

And if you're a runner and you're getting knee pain, I'd be looking at either the foot and ankle. After the foot and ankle I will be looking at their hips straight away. There's something going wrong in those areas there. So about 50% of people will get knee pain more common in females than males by a long shot. Now, we look at kind of around, kind of Achilles as well. That's another area that can get a fair bit of problems as well. That's probably around…

Lisa: That's mum, as usual. Ringing in the middle of the podcast.

Dave: Calling mum. So around 10% of people get Achilles issues. That's another really common one and that's more a male thing. So that's the case, the 40 plus male is that actually the shoe. But then you'll get your IT band and touch that, which is probably around like 5% of the injuries. [14:32 unintelligible] can be in the foot or your tibia as well. And that's probably around 5% too.

So those are the main injuries. You'll see that getting running back, but knees if I was gonna go after one injury in running, knees are normally the one that pay the price. And there's certainly a big relationship between the foot and the knee. Ginormous.

Lisa: Right. So it's not always go up. Mechanics of the knees is the actual problem is down, or above, or below.

Dave: Yes. Almost always. Unless you've had an impact at the knee? Yes, you can treat the knee and always look at knee because if people come and see you for a knee injury, if you start playing the beat straight away, they'll go, ‘Well, hang on’.

Lisa: ‘What's this going on’? But it does make sense that the kinetic chain and the linking together and trying to find out where the original problem was coming from. Not just where—because like Neil's always said to me, ‘You know, like, if you've got a problem with your ankle, it can affect your shoulder’. And I’m like, ‘How does that work’? You know?

Dave: Absolutely. Yes. Where it goes, nobody knows.

Lisa: And how do you trace it back? How do you trace up a back problem to the ankle? Or the piriformis?

Dave: If you know what it should look like and it doesn't look like what it should look like, well, what happens if you change and make it look more like it should? How does that change things? And that's normally in a nutshell the approach that I'll take. I guess that’s where you need to have a reasonable reference library of saying that, nothing more than my fair share of runners. And I'm sure you have too. I mean, if you feel someone running down the street, now you go, ‘That's not a very experienced runner’, or ‘Oh, boy, that's very experienced runner’. Well, you know that because you've seen so many runners.

So having that, I guess, experience in that database to draw from, and then understand the mechanics, and really add into it what you got. And I know what you gotta do in your Running Hot business. Well, you understand your body and you understand running technique, you can put that together and solve some wonderful problems.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. But it is like a bit of a counterintuitive thing. I had a guy like, ‘Oh my piriformis’. Like Neil said to me the other day when he saw me, ‘Oh my God. Your bunions are getting really out of control. We got to do something about that’. And I'm like, ‘Oh, is it’? Sometimes you don't notice the things because you're just seeing them every day. You know? So let's talk about—let’s say some specific type of things that we are looking at. So let's look at bunions for that. What are bunions? And what effect can they have on the mechanics of your feet and up the body?

Dave: Yes. So bunions—the quarter bunions is up for debate. There is certainly a genetic component to it. So either your mum probably has bunions. I guess.

Lisa: Yes. Yes. Yes, you're right on money.

Dave: But that there’s also a big environmental part to it as well. So bunions, when your big toe starts to go in, then you'll end up with normally some calcification around that, well, that first joint—the joint in the big toe—that's probably a better way of saying it, around there as well.

What that does too is compresses the foot. The big toe goes sideways compared to it goes to the next [18:02 unintelligible], that compresses the foot, as well. So we get a lot of compression in that foot. They cause a number of problems. In between those bones in your foot. You've got a lot of nerves that run through there. So when those toes get compressed together, those nerves can get very irritated. Next, become very, very painful.

So and probably just as a little sideline here, if you were to pop your hands just in front of you there—if you're driving a car, listen to this, it's probably not such a good idea. But try this later on, you just put your hand down and look at your hand. So notice the space between your fingers there, that you put your foot down and have a look at your foot, you should also see space between your toes as well. Spacing’s really important to allow that room for the foot to move, to breathe. And also to get those space for all those straps in your foot to go.

Lisa: And that’s with you naturally just having the foot there and not trying to spread them but just...

Dave: Just naturally you should see space between your toes.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dave: That you see a nice wide foot there. I love it. I love a good wide foot. Yes, so compression in those toes. And that can be a footwear choice thing too. So if you have shoes, and we've talked about toe box, that's the front part of a shoe. So we go out the toe box, this area through here. So the step front pair of shoes give a wide toe box in a shoe design that lets the foot spread out versus one that narrow and pushes the toes together.

Lisa: Gosh. I should know about that. Yes. A lot of the shows that I get, I get sponsored by some brand or whatever. And then like I couldn't wear them.

Dave: Yes, the kiwi foot. Yes, and also this is a column that does this as well.

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: And with me, I've got a nice wide foot. I will not wish you for the narrow toe. It caused me nothing but problems. So footwear choice can be one of the things they also drive a bunion.

Now the other part too is that, when you've got that big toe and that big toes moving sideways, rather than going through the foot, you will often go inside the foot and fall into it. You get more pronation than what you normally have. So we lose the arch of the foot because the way the foot’s designed to move is your desire to move through and move through the big toe.

So, when we talk about the cycle of walking and running, we even have a phase of that called toe off. Because that's a really important part with a big toe pushes off. So if your big toe is going sideways, it's going to be—when you can't go through the toe, we’ll have to go around the toe. And that will cause a lot of wear and tear that can, after a while, that will start to break that foot down.

Now that may require you to drink, unless you do some exercises. In Sydney, we have some real bunion experts and my team, some of my guys love working with bunions. And you can certainly bring that foot back if you have surgery to repair bunions. So if you don't do the work, well the same thing is going to happen again. You just go straight across and they'll end up having to cut your foot open.

Lisa: Yes, yes.

Dave: My mum had bunions. But I gave her a little exercise program, and I'm pretty sure that's on my—that may be on my YouTube channel.

Lisa: Okay, we might get the link off here.

Dave: And yes, if not, I'll put it on there. And yes, she had some exercise to do for bunions. Her bunions pain disappeared and my mum's in her 70s. So you can certainly reverse that and have her feet are straighter. I’ve had some people come back from their podiatrist and I go to say, ‘What the hell have you been doing? What have you been doing? Keep doing it. Because your toes are straightening, and your foot in better condition’.

Lisa: So you can sometimes avoid surgery. Wow, that's pretty amazing. That's pretty amazing.

Dave: Well, and even if you have surgery, if you don't do the follow up, you're gonna end up having it again. It’s a huge amount of work with a huge amount of things you can do to help out your bunions.

Lisa: Okay, that's really good because I have—got a very neglected bunion. I've always like, ‘Oh, it’s not causing me major troubles yet’. You know? Now I'm thinking, ‘Shoot. I need to address it’, because it's getting, like, Neil noticed that last time I was with him, it's getting worse. And I'm, ‘Oh, this is it? I thought it was the same old, same old’. Neil exclaimed no. And I've got troubles with piriformis. And I'm like, ‘I've been looking at piriformis trying in working on that’. And that could be, could be, could be, might not be, could be a knock on the feet there.

Dave: So thinking about how that could relay. If you've got that bunion here, and your foot’s falling into pronation and it’ll take the knee with it, and it will take that whole hip and will rotate in and everything will rotate in there. What stops it? Well piriformis can stop that. So if piriformis is having to make up for a foot function issue there, well, that's worth working.

If you release piriformis, and get that guy—well, now you've got nothing holding your foot together. So where's that guy next to the public often deal on the spine? That's probably where we're going next. And then it could be somewhere else too, or it could travel to the knee.

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: So, you know, we talked before about finding the source. Fixing the foot would be a really useful one. And if you're still on your feet, a fair amount, which knowing who you are, you certainly want that contact with the ground.

Lisa: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dave: Sort it out.

Lisa: Like paying attention to the little changes that are happening in your body because sometimes you think, ‘Oh, no, you know, it's all the same’. And then you don't see changes in your own body when you don't, when you see yourself every day, or your loved ones. Or sometimes you just like got your own little blind spots. Okay, so if we can dig that video out, we'll put that in the show notes for sure.

Let's talk about plantar fasciitis because this is a major problem. One of the most common running problems, especially the people who have up the distance very quickly or done some things here, what is plantar fasciitis and what can we do to deal with it one?

Dave: So the left part of fascia is a layer of fat or connective tissue that goes right along the bottom of the foot. And as I mentioned before, that has a lot of receptors on it. So it's very rich in receptors, though can get extremely painful. And typically people who have plantar fascia issues will get out of bed and they'll try to put their foot down, and take a snack, or walk, and start walking, and the whole bottom their foot will be locked up. It'll take a while for that to loosen up so they can use that foot.

More often, you'll get that around the front of the heel, so none of them pointed the heel back in towards the centre of the foot. And sometimes that'll run up in bands as well. Now, the change in volume too quickly is your number one culprit which you mentioned. And that centre area. But certainly some foot mechanics can also have an issue there as well. So the plantar fascia is—in your foot, you've got well, definition you got 50 muscles that run below their knee—all could help control that foot. Your plantar fascia is there, it winds up, and plucky when you bend your big toe. It helps wind up that panic factor to help make the foot rigid to make it to leave so you can push off it.

That's one of the—there’s sort of two main functions of a foot. The first one is to allow the foot to splat is my technical term. Hits the ground and conforms to the surface that it goes to, number one function. Second one is it becomes a rigid lever so you can repel off it. Well, that's pretty much what a foot does. If you have kind of with a narrow down.

So we've got an issue there with that timing between backing and becoming a rigid lever. And the plantar fascia is wearing it somewhere there. Now there's—we can look at the plantar fascia, and you can try and treat the plantar fascia. But there's a lot of layers of muscles and a lot of timing that happened before that plantar fascia that’s been beaten up. So there's something gone wrong with the timing of how you're going from flat to rigid lever that's causing that.

And particularly if you overload into that. So if you've increased your volume too much, that's often the last well, kilometre, or 1000 footsteps that broke the camel's back. So I want to look at what's happening with the ankle and the foot, and I'm always interested in the big toe when it comes to plantar fascia.

Lisa: Right, so that's your big lever. Point, really big toes when you push off and you get that elasticity sort of wound up.

Dave: Massively important part that big toes. The amount of bones you have in that big toe, and for those of you with bunions, or pinchy injuries in that big toe joint as well. That's a really important one to get looked at. That can have a massive effect on everything up the chain.

Lisa: Wow. Yes. And what can you do about it? Are there some exercises that you recommend? Like, you might have fascia release, you make your ball rolling, that type of thing for the actual plantar fasciitis itself, the stretching and icing, and all that jazz?

Dave: Icing can be nice, and that takes some of the pain away because it’s very painful. Having some light pressure in those areas too can help hydrate the tissues and get them healthier again. Because during—if you have some sore spots in their plantar fascia, often they won't have the hydration and the movement, because it's still layers and layers of tissue. Now, if you can get those moving better and hydrated, that will heal better.

Adding some load to it can be useful too, you just need to be careful where you are in their injury spectrum. But it actually does require some loading because the loading will help actually line up the fibres and get that strong again. But it needs to be the right type of loading starting slowly and building up. That sort of mechanics. In big toe, you'd be wanting to have a look at and also what's happening with the ankle. Check that you've got enough dorsiflexion to get into more. How much can you bring your ankle? If you've got a restriction on the ankle and a restricted big toe, your plantar fascia—well, everything in the foot but the plantar fascia, may end up wearing that one.

Lisa: Yes, yes. And there's a couple of tricks to do with the dorsiflexion that I can link to another video there that Neil's done. Where you can push that—I’ve forgotten it—talus bone. Where you pushing it back into—because sometimes there’s some sort of a line. Yes, this one, this one. Trying to find the words.

Dave: Restoring their ankle dorsiflexion will be critical. I think that the foot and ankle, I'll look at three main zones in the body. In terms of my model for looking at movement. If you get the torso moving really well, that's very important for rotation. If you're running, you get the pelvis and hips moving really well, that would be my second zone. And the third zone would be the foot and ankle. So if you can get those three zones working well, normally I take 85% of the movement issues will just disappear. Right? And so the foot and ankle are a huge player in my model, and certainly one that I see having a very big impact on how people move well or done don’t move well.

Lisa: Yes. Now, that's really good. So the torso, the pelvis, and the feet. So working on those areas in trying to get things balanced.

Dave: Yes, well, the big thing on that that's where I missed them.

Lisa: And those are the three areas—the key areas—and obviously it's the score a lot of work Dave but yes. It's everything from drills and exercises and it's what we do, what you do.

Let's look at now, for runners, talking about running shoes, and buying running shoes, and picking a shoe that's good for you and what you're doing. You were showing me some running shoes before and for people on the podcast, you can't see, but says Kipchoge ones, what do you call them? What are those shoes?

Dave: So these are Nike's Zoom Fly shoes. So for those of you who are listening to this, rather than watching it, so this is the shoe that Kipchoge wore to get his sub-2-hour marathon. And they have fibre placement, which have an awful lot of recoil. And also, it is over four centimeters of foam here, but the foam has incredible amount of recoil.

Lisa: Wow.

Dave: So the theory is these will take 4% of your running time.

Lisa: Wow, that’s messed up.

Dave: There’s actually a spreadsheet, which I got hold up to. We can actually look at your running times and calculate how much of a difference it would make to your running performance. And yes, I mean, who wouldn't pay for 4%?

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: Mostly runners, my straight line runners, will compete in these. And you'd be a magnet to, if you want to run fast on straight lines. These are extremely high and extremely unstable. If you wouldn’t run on trail with these, no way.

Lisa: Like the HokaOnes, you know, like really deep into the thing that a big sole...

Dave: No, these are high. And they're incredible amount of recoil. They do push you very much, your forefoot style. So what I’ve noticed for days, I totally didn't want to like these.

Lisa: Cause you want more people to go bare feet.

Dave: I ran in them last week. This is ridiculous.

Lisa: Ridiculously good.

Dave: The speed and ease is something else. And certainly most of my runners who run straight liner, competing in these and certainly in the meantime and now, unless athletes have sponsors, those are the shoes they are picking up. And why wouldn't you if you can—I mean getting 4% improvement in performance is there's something else, even with training. If you can get that by paying for it, why wouldn't you?

Lisa: So basically, it's elasticity that they're using. It’s the spring, it's the coil, it's the ability to bounce you off the ground, it's like being on a trampoline. So you're gonna get more force.

Dave: Right.

Lisa: Taking your foot.

Dave: Well, yes. The energy is returned a lot more efficiently. So you'll notice that there's a whole host of track records been broken lately, and then closed the marathon. And yes, the technology had a big part in playing it. I think that the next Olympics, the shoe feature extremely heavy. And a lot of a lot of other manufacturers are using this technology now. And they have a lot stricter with the technology they can use in those events now. So there's the level playing field.

Lisa: If you want to level the playing field, it's a thing—if we start having an unlevel playing field, and that's where it becomes a bit problematic.

Dave: And they're recouping broken now. And there'll be more broken with this sort of new technology coming through.

Lisa: And from a foot health perspective, are they okay, in that respect, or you just didn't want to like them?

Dave: No, it's not about—it’s sports. Sports is not about health.

Lisa: Performance is not about health. No

Dave: No.

Lisa: It should be but it depends… It’s not always the case.

Dave: That's the point, though. I mean, if you wear these around all throughout the day, why would you do that? And having four centimeters of foam between you and the ground can be put to sleep. So look, I would—if I'm wanting to do a fast run and I don't really do much of that anymore—but if I was doing a faster training run with them, with a buddy of mine who runs pretty quick, I would definitely wear these.

I'm walking all day barefoot. I'm doing full exercises throughout my day. I'm waking up my feet all the time to look after my feet in-between. So you know, this foot choice, shoe choice doesn't stand finished when you're running. It's throughout the day. And that way, you'll choose a different type of shoe. If I was wearing a shoe during the day, my normal shoe would be something that's very minimal, which allows my foot to feel the ground and do things, if I need to wear footwear.

Lisa: Yes. And sometimes you don't, you know?

Dave: Yes. And I think that's an important thing too. We've always—there's always extremes. Yes. So I'll see the odd person is taken to the extreme, and they'll go barefoot all the time. And I think you need to be careful of that too. So from a health point of view, yes. So where I live, you wouldn't run—I have run some trails barefoot but there are sharp rocks around there. But also we have snakes there which is a bit of a problem. So I've done the odd barefoot run, but it makes you pretty nervous. The other part too, is what goes on your skin, goes in you.

Lisa: Yes, me too. You talked about that on—what was it on? Something you were talking about the other day. You were talking the skin and your feet. When your lectures that I was learning from you, right? And you were saying how your daughter was barefoot, which was great, but you went to get some picture with the car.

Dave: Yes.

Lisa: And she wanted to run across the full court bare feet and you said, ‘No, put your shoes on’.

Dave: Yes. Gotta have shoes. If you go into public toilets, or you're going on a forecourt of a petrol station, if you're walking barefoot on those, those chemicals are getting into your thing.

Lisa: Yes. So also, if you're walking barefoot too, and certainly in Asia and I have an Asian background, you bringing into your house when you go in there too. So be careful where you expose your feet to, because it will go in you, and then we'll take it into your house.

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: So yes, there's time and place for everything.

Lisa: Yes, yes, that's so true. And this is where some other minimalist shoes come in. So and like, social etiquette and stuff, you don't—you can't go to the gym without some sort of footwear on. Most places will tell you off. Well, gym maybe.

Dave: My gym, we actually have a gym shoes off policy, right? If we want people to move well, we need all the sensors working well. So we want as much information from those shoes from those feet as possible. So people understand where they are on the ground. Then we have covered where people put their shoes in.

And now not everyone is trying to barefoot. And we have some people who have some structural foot issues who do require some footwear, as well tend to move well. So, if you drop a dumbbell on your foot, having a shoe isn't really going to help you. But as one of my main etiquette contains the meat.

Lisa: And most gyms prescribe that you have to have shoes on when you go to them. They do. And these social situations, you can't go to the opera with bare feet. It's not cool. And that brings me to ladies in high heels. What are we doing to our bodies when we wear…

Dave: Oh boy.

Lisa: …lovely, elegant? We look very elegant in high heels. What the hell are we doing to ourselves?

Dave: Okay, so yes, you mentioned that word kinetic chain before. And the idea there is when you change one part, it will change something else with. That's what a kinetic chain does. Okay, a closed kinetic chain. So when you add an incline to your heel, and lift yourself up there, that pushes you forward. So if you have a stiletto on or something very high, you’ll fall on your face unless you adjusted. So where will you adjust? You'll normally do that by pushing your pose forward, by arching your lower back more. So often, the problem that you'll see with high heels will be it changes up the chain.

As well as that when you're in high heels, you're effectively pointing your toes. So if you're in a flat shoe, you'd have been in your ankles. In a high heel, your toes are pointed more. So what that does is that will shorten the calf muscles. And that’s why, if you look at a woman in high heels, she has more definition in the calves because those calf muscles are shortened up. But if you're wearing high heels an awful lot there, what that will do is shorten up that calf, it may make it harder for you to bend that ankle again, which will cause you some different issues, and for those of you who are a bit more technical minded too, peroneus longus, okay, will be one of the muscles which is a part of the action which will be shortened.

The peroneus longus comes around a riff underneath the foot and a wrench into the base of that big toe. So it pulls you down into pronation so it collapses the arch. So if you've been wearing high heels an awful lot, that peroneus longus can shorten, which can end up reducing your amount of bend in your ankle and also will pull you into more pronation. Apparently, the good thing that allows you to splat, but remember we also want to make the foot rigid after that so it can repel often.

But if you end up mucking around with muscles, and changing the way they work, and certainly by placing a high heel, and you're certainly going to do that, that will do that. And it will change the way the peroneus longus works and wears out the muscles, which will change that timing, that intricate timing that we need to have in the foot.

Lisa: Wow. And so ladies, keep your high heels for special occasions and not everyday use if you can. And I mean I—working with mum and she was in the bed for a long time, bedridden. Drop foot, you know, same thing basically. But just on a horizontal because she couldn't stand so she couldn't get that dorsiflexion happening, and then I was not aware of it at the time that this was a problem when it was happening, and I caught it quite late. And then we had to have her in a boot to try and straighten that out and now she's got a rigid ankle pretty much. So she's got no dorsiflexion, therefore she can't roll over the front of your foot and off nicely. So her whole gait is more flat footed. And these things knock on very early. And then it happens quite quickly that you start to get dropped foot.

Even if you think about life, wake up in the morning and that first time the foot hits the floor, and you've got like, ‘Oh yes, stuff. Stuff on the calf muscles feeling scuffles within the Achilles. And this is a—getting onto the Achilles toe’. If you're getting that initial stiffness when you get up in the morning, there's something brewing and maybe start to look at it. Achilles is a good—that's a good indicator that so step in the morning. How are you feeling? If you're bouncing out of bed and you can get out of bed and run down the hallway and you find you've got nothing, then you probably, not too bad.

Dave: I think that's a great point here. You should wake up feeling reasonably good. I mean it’s not a margarine commercial. You shouldn't jump out of bed, ‘Hey. Hello world’. That's probably the only thing you'd be happy about if you're eating that stuff. But that's a whole other conversation.

I had a professional athlete who I was working with, and we were talking one morning and was actually helping, deciding—standing up, deciding we were gonna go with him. And he said, ‘Yes. So how things young is young? What’s your story? I didn't have a car stand up. And then I go, ‘Sharon district’. About 40 minutes later, I'm ready to move. That's normal, right? ‘No, no, that's not normal. Your body normal is not being in pain and struggling to move. That's not normal..

Lisa: Oh but it's age, Dave. That's the next thing, he’ll tell you. It’s just normal aging.

Dave: So now I think too, you know. Let’s you've got a—sorry for those of you who are in different hemispheres. But a classic car in the southern hemisphere was a Ford Cortina. Now imagine you've got a 1984 Cortina in your garage, and it's chrome. It's beautiful. And you've looked after it wonderfully. That car drives fantastically in your own town, you think this is the best car ever. But if you take a 1980 Ford Cortina, and you don't maintain it, and you just drive it hard, you won't have it here today.

Lisa: Yes.

Dave: Okay. So if you've got a classic car, it can run really well. But you need to put some extra care and maintenance into it.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Dave: That's all it is. So, but you can have a young—you can have a new sports car. You can trash it's probably gonna be a little bit better. But yes, so the older you are, the more keen you’re taking care of your classic car.

Lisa: We fit into the classic category now.

Dave: That's another spin on that too. You know, ages is one thing. But I kind of look at these young athletes, I think you're—you can you can keep up with me. You haven't got the experience I've got. Play that card. It's not there's not just physical is a lot more that goes on to it. And take a look at the outer world. And know that certainly, the more of a mental game that's required, the better it suits your experience.

Lisa: Yes, in Roman times, like, it's not about speed and power after a 100k, it sort of starts to come down to…

Dave: Yes.

Lisa: So yes, it is. It's an attitude for life. There's a number of rounds on the clock, but it's keeping everything as best as you can in optimal performance and stopping things before they fall down the cliff, and being in that preventative space. And that's what we're both all about. And that's why you’re taking good care of your joints, and your muscles, and your hydration, and all of those exercises is really, really key. Let's talk a little bit now around, what's your take, I'd like to hear just on general and for joints and cartilage and stuff? Things like sulfur, MSM, conjugated salt, and so Glucosamine, that sort of supplementation for cartilage and joints you know anything about this? If it’s a cool thing or not?

Dave: It's really cool at one of my key areas. Look, supplements are strange one. And certainly my take on that really changed over the last few years. And now if you think you can get everything out of your diet, even if you're eating organic, you probably can't. So there's certainly some supplementation useful. I'm very big on getting an evidence base on that though.

So there's this push where we've almost seen our science as lying now. We need to be able to do our supplementation, to what you want to choose. But what I found now is basically you become a victim to marketing now. So there's a fine line between the two. So I read up on what I think is useful, and what's not, and I use it on an individual basis. But I'd like to cover the basics first, and often think that we're thinking they're tasting things like curcumin. Another problem with curcumin by the way, as well some other some other supplements here when you're not even looking at the basics. So do the big rocks first.

Lisa: Yes, I'm big on those pretty you know those ABCD. Selenium, zinc, magnesium-type base. Not sexy, but very essential for genetic functions. Yes.

Dave: A decent multivitamin is probably a bloody good place to start, and then you can start fine tuning from there. Sure. I take a few other things, as well. I'm a big fan of a decent probiotic, and veering those probiotics around. I think that's really important. And I use that as a food source as a supplement. I do like my fish oils. I think there is a part to play in that.

Lisa: Yes. Those are wild.

Dave: Wild, wild, wild small fish is the way you want to go and watch out for the processing on those as well, they can get...

Lisa: Very very important to get the right fish source, you get right fish source ,and you'll be doing the opposite to what you need to kick the company out especially... In our next conversation. I know we're getting a bit off topic but probiotics, I've done quite a lot of study around the probiotics, and some of the problems of probiotics, and has domains, and causing inflammation and allergic reactions. Have you found any one in particular that you'd say, ‘Yes, that one's been really good for a lot of people’. This got a good clinical base to it?

Dave: Yes. There's a few brands that I tend to like. These…

Lisa: Deep in here without any proof on that question, but I was interested for myself because I'm looking at our probiotics.

Dave: Syntol is a brand I quite like. Syntol, S-Y-N-T-O-L iis a brand that I've used for probably the last decade. That's an industrial strength one which works really well. Also Bio-Heal is another one, which I think is a pretty decent one. And the reason I like those brands is that they don't need refrigeration. And the Syntol is more spore one so it can be a bit bitter as well.

Lisa: Yes. Because it's got to get through the digestive, the stomach, the action, into the lower. And I know like the science in this area is still a very much an evolving space. And a lot of this, I have had a couple of clients been on probiotics that you get out of off the shelf or supermarket type thing. They ended up with histamine reactions and things like that because they do have often—so if you're sensitive to histamine and you might want to check it out a little bit more, and just be toe in the water and find out. So it's a little bit hard to know because I think the jury's still out in some regards. But I think but the spore based ones…

Dave: Yes, there seems to be built in there. I feel like most fermented foods, they won't suit everyone, for sure. They served me really well. So I make my own kimchi. I make my kombucha. I make my own sauerkraut. Do some water kefir as well. I often use a little bit of fermented foods to help my gut work. And every culture and everywhere in the world has some form of fermented food. And we realize as developing communities that we need to look after our gut health needs, and we didn't have refrigeration was probably the other thing as well. Then those are very health giving. And it still exists in most cultures today, and it's certainly something that I'd recommend if it suits you to work into your diet.

Lisa: Yes, and that is where I know—working with the PH-316 epigenetics programme that we do that there are certain biotypes. And one of them that can miss to watch the amount of fermented foods because it can again—cause histamine problems in inflammation in the body—so that is a bit of a bit more a personal genetic thing too, as rather than across the board.

But to be fair, I think that's everything needs to be personalized nowadays. And we've got a lot I wouldn't say we've got an all sass but there is a lot of science around what type of thing for what person and which genes, for which foods, and I don't think it's by any means perfect yet. The science behind it, but we can get a bit of an idea on some of these things. So just because it's healthy for Dave doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be healthy for Lisa, you know? So a little bit of experiment, and I'm a big experimenter, versus showing one of my athletes into my pantry. And it looks more like a cumulus isn't well supplement shop rather than a...

And I don't take on things all the time but I'm always experimenting on my own body, and trying to optimize, and to see what sort of things are having which effect and then trying to take note of it, and keep track of it, and trying to work out. A little bit hard when you keep chucking 100 variations at things. It's not exactly a clinical study where you do one variation. But…

Dave: Eating is one.

Lisa: Eating is one. Yes, exactly. And keeping testing. But back to the whole foot scenario talking that—I mean, you and I can end up in bloody all sorts of areas. What's your take on orthotics? I wanted to ask that again. Jury's out of my mind on orthotics and I'm not sure.

Dave: That’s a real polarizing one. I'm gonna make myself unpopular with some people here, but here's my take on it. I'm not—I'm not a [51:17 unintelligible]. If you have a foot that hasn't got a structural issue, or a neurological deficit, you can work without orthotics. Okay, so orthotics add support, and they will normally block motion. Okay, that's what they're pretty much designed to do.

So normally, when they describe orthotics, they'll look at, ‘Okay, there's too much motion. We will block that motion so that the foot can do its thing’. You block motion, some way though. What we know is that motion will be taken up somewhere else. And in that closed chain, where that motion goes will often have problems.

So let's have a look, if you've got a foot that doesn't dorsiflex well, so the ankle doesn't bend well. Now what will happen is the only way you can bend their ankle now is to roll inside or to over pronate. That's the only way you can go there. But rather than go through the foot, you go around the foot now.

So what may happen is, if you have no thoughts to stop that pronation, go, ‘What's happened now’? Okay? Now you can't pronate the foot, you can't work at the ankle, what's going to go next? You may end up taking up a knee. But now you'll end up with a knee issue, when you may come in with a foot issue. You may end up with a knee issue, or it may end up going into the hip or the lumbar spine, or as far as into the neck, which is a common thing or even to the head.

I've seen from people who've had a foot issue and they get hit out when they start hitting the pavement because it goes right through the chain. And that's it ends up tearing them up. So when you enter [52:53 unintelligible], if you've got a painful foot, it can be very useful temporarily to change what's going on, or a structure or neurological deficit. Otherwise, think of a crutch.

Okay, if I break my leg, ‘Oh, I want to break around my knee without smashing my knee to smithereens. I want to break around my knee and I want to wear crutches to start with’.

Now, oh boy that feels so good having extra support in there. And I've restricted that range around my knee because it's too painful to move. But 10 years later, I wouldn't want to be still be wearing that same brace on my knee with a crutch. And I wouldn't want to go in there each year and get that brace changed a little bit and realtered.

So I look at some of your thoughts that come into me and I look at that foot and I look at your foot and I go, ‘I have no idea’. I kind of—foot mechanics is tricky stuff. But I've put a fair bit of work into it. Like I understand how feet generally work, I think. I look at that foot and I look at that person, and I think, ‘I can’t see what’s that relating to at all’. I don’t know what you’re seeing, but that's not what I see.

And there’s a few things around some of the theory of orthotics which are a little bit tricky around foot mechanics change when you have your foot on the ground versus when you—whether your foot in the air.

Lisa: Of course.

Dave: A lot of the mechanics that are put into orthotics aren't done in a closed chain, which changes the whole way the foot works. Though, there is some stuff there. I've had piles of orthotics thrown away over the year. I have products come into me and I go, ‘What?’ And I'll test them. It'll take people with them, without them, and they'll go better without them. I had some people that do need them though, because they had some neurological issues for their head structural foot issues, where their foot is broken beyond repair, where it does need some help.

And making good orthotics, definitely—for those of you who maybe have a diabetic foot or have had some issues around there. Some of the orthotics I've seen that have come and have been worked about and are amazing, though there is some there are some amazing work on orthotics. And that's probably my outtake on this one. So finding someone who's very good at that, and looking after a foot in trouble is a real skill.

Lisa: It is. I've got a friend, Lisa Whiteman, who owns a China podiatry clinics, right, throughout New Zealand, and their stuff is next level. But the science and technology that they have in order to get the right things for that. So if you're thinking of doing it, make sure you go to somebody who really knows this stuff, and not just any sort of orthotic. And test it, and try it, and see whether you're getting something through up the train, fix that. And question with the immediate, long term—I've never had any benefit out of an orthotic. And I've only got, again, one anecdotal in me.

But we're not—like dealing with someone like my mum with a neurological problem, and limited dorsiflexion. I am considering the next opportunity I get to take down to Wellington to go and see my friend and go into her clinic and get her an assist, that might be, for example, a situation where something like that could be called for, because she's lost that motion and the ankle, so we haven't got it to work with.

Dave: So we do have problems from the bottom up. So the foot can cause a problem going up, but also it can probably be going down too.

Lisa: Yes, yes.

Dave: Okay, so life exists below the knee. So certainly, it's way useful to look at a foot, but I don't fit those other areas as well, because you're gonna have a lot of problems that are caused from up the chain that go down as well.

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes.

Dave: That's where I get a little bit concerned, sometimes where people look at just the foot by itself.

Lisa: It's reductionist. Doesn't that? It's like, yes, and I mean, we can have a conversation around reduction as sort of thinking, in medicine, and in every area really is looking at single piece of the puzzle.

Dave: And that is useful. We go to put it back through, you gotta work it.

Lisa: Got to put the screw to the chain. I love the imagery. Like, you've taught me the cell blueprint recently. That is a reductionist model, it's bringing things down onto the cellular level and saying, what is the cell going, and then what is the tissue doing, and the organ doing, and the system doing. But we are going back up through the system. And looking at it from another perspective, and when you just look at a piece of the puzzle and go, ‘Right. Oh, I got such because your ankle when I wiggle it, like this isn't doing it before you have this problem’. That's a reductionist view on it. And this is why the holistic—ike you, the holistic movement coach, and where the holistic run training system, because it says about being fit, holistic, and looking at things outside of your core focus. You know, like, when a runner comes in, they want to do an ultra-marathon, and we're gonna be looking at their health.

Dave: Absolutely.

Lisa: In general, we're gonna be looking at their mindset. We're gonna be looking at their nutrition, not just if they're running the right amount of kilometres a week. It's far more complicated than that. And then holistic look at things as really—you want to be working with coaches, and doctors and health professionals that are taking a holistic—and we're possible, a personalized approach to what you're doing. And this takes time. And this takes more money. And this takes more education. And in a broader knowledge on a lot of subjects. So you're not going to find this on every street corner but I think that approach is just a much better way to look at things in general.

And that's why, like, you might need a holistic movement coach, but you're an absolute expert in so many areas. Now, it's just insane the level of knowledge that you have. And we're trying to, I'm trying to emulate that in different other areas because... And you can't be across every game thing in the whole world. Like, I had a lady yesterday that I was working with, and some of the testing that was coming out of America on mycotoxins and all that I haven't even looked at that pile of the science and something that I want to do, but it's just like—well, that's often the distant future because there's so many other pieces of the puzzle and you can't be across every damn thing.

But if you are trying to be as holistic as possible, and being able to refer out to people who you don't know what to do in that, in that sort of case, but having that broad of you. Get on the sphere on top of the specialization as a good combi day. Dave, we’ve bloody ravaged it on again for ages. I think we've covered off so pretty much. But I did want to ask you about reflexology. What's your take on reflexology before we wrap up?

Dave: I love getting it. I love doing it. So, the idea with reflexology is that—and there's lots of different types of reflexology. We often associate reflexology with the feet. But the French often use the ear as a reflexology ear and hands often— the idea is your body is represented and in smaller areas of your body, so you can access... So for instance, the kidneys or the small intestine through the fetus, there's a theory there.

And certainly this, yes, I've had some really good results on myself for reflexology. And I remember, my first experience of reflexology was, I used to be a competitive kayaker at another lifetime. And my regular massage therapist is away. And I had this, this drastic issue, I had a torn tissue, it wasn't going well, and had a bit of back pain with it. And so she put me on for another massage therapist, and I walked in there and this messed it up is the first indicator, ‘We'd start by cleansing your aura’. I’m like, ‘Lord’. And I'm probably a bit more forgiving of that now than it was back then. But now I've just spoken to do it.

And so she starts cleansing my aura and I’m thinking, ‘Well, this is an error. I'm not going to enjoy things’. Then she starts playing with my feet. And she hits this spot in my feet. I just about jump through the roof. I didn't know what was going on. She said, ‘You've done something to your upper back’. I’m like, ‘Yes’. And she worked on it, it got less and less painful. During the standing up, that is the best my back has ever felt. So certainly it worked well. Well be open.

And, you know, certainly I learned a fair bit of reflexology about that. After that I was quite impressed by the experience. And I've had some clients who really enjoyed it. There were parts which were, I guess, a little too intense to get into straightaway. I've had some really good results with sinus type stuff. The sinus points are right around the the point in your toes here that can work really well to help clear sinuses

Lisa: Really?

Dave: Oh, yes. That one worked quite nicely for me anyway. But I do think there's something in it. And, yeah, it's lovely to get, that's very relaxing, because you're looking at your feet, going through your whole body. And it's all connected.

Lisa: Also we can learn from different traditions and different Ayurvedic and traditional Chinese. There's pieces of a puzzle. And the cool thing now is that the western sciences, catching up with a lot of the other sort of stuff and bringing it in and giving you the scientific reasoning behind it.

Dave: Maybe one thing I could leave folks with is thinking about, you know, how to select a shoe. And that's often one of the questions that I'm asked, or how should I pick a shoe then? First thing I'll say is be be be careful of the marketing, shoe science. And I've put big brackets around that one, there was an ear brackets here for those of you in radioland. Yes, so when you get a shoe, that neutral is often when you get to set a minimum, which means they have very little space between you and the ground. There's a new character called maximalist, which has a maximum amount between you and the ground. But you also have one that has stability shoes, which have a bit more supporting your up. And you have what's called motion control, as well, which trying to control the foot, particularly if you are an overpronator within control, you tend to roll in a fair bit more than normal.

There's been a few good studies showing that really, it isn't the shoe that makes the difference. There's a good study done in 2010, where they basically mixed the foot to the shoe. So people who are overpronated, were given motion control shoes, people neutral feet were given neutral shoes. And people who were in between were given a stability shoe. What they found out is that neutral people did the worst in neutral shoes. The people with motion control shoes did the worst in motion control shoes. So in other words, it's not the shoe. The shoe doesn't run by itself. You don't give someone a pair of golf clubs, a set of golf clubs and say, ‘Hey, here's the best golf. You’re gonna be an awesome golfer now’.

Lisa: You're gonna be Tiger Woods next week.

Dave: Yes. It's not a shoe that does the running. It's a person that does the running. Here's a technique and conditioning and looking at yourself and your health has much more effect than a shoe ever will.

Lisa: Yes. Yes.

Dave: So normally what I would say is, I would generally say, pick a neutral shoe, would be my first piece of advice for most people. Get one that is comfortable. So there's a lot of research showing that the more comfortable your shoe is, the more efficient you are. So make sure it feels good. So I go shoe shopping with my wife and I look at the shoe. I would never wear a shoe she would, she has different temporal quality. She needs all-foot cushioning to feel comfortable that she can see issues a lot more built up and than mine.

Also get shoes that are light. For every 100 grand that you add on the shoe there's an extra 1% of you will be able to max that you need to use it with the energy cost to having heavy shoe. So go get the lightest. I'd say also get the most minimalist that you are happy with.

Lisa: And it means that you trail running and things that you'd...

Dave: Make sure you're comfortable in itself not hurting your feet and you're not dealing with bruised feet every time you go running or four feet. So, so yes, that would be my general—spectrum of color, color combos are good too.

Lisa: Very important. I think that's you know, really some good advice. And you know, and the other thing I did want to touch on is don't go all suddenly bare foot on us now like just because this episode and go suddenly, ‘Well, I'm gonna go 100% barefoot minimalist shoes’, because the transitioning is really, really important in building up the strength and the feet before you go and start running 100 Calloway in barefoot. can be fought You got to be thrown away real fast if you do this. So make sure you build up over time in transitioning.

Dave: One of the other studies that was a really interesting one. The theory is when you go barefoot as opposed to pushing more midfoot or forefoot. That’s generally the whole idea of going—that's one of the theories of going barefoot running. Well, that helps. But there was a cool study done in 214, which are called—they looked at runners and they trained them using Vivo barefoot, the toe shoes. toasters. And what they found was that half of those runners, over half of those runners didn't change from a rear foot strike. So not the shoe that runs again. Now you generally will tend to be pushed more for foot and in a minimal shoe I'd say that's generally true, but it has to be on an indoor.

So half of those runners did not become more forefoot, finally change just like that. The half of them didn’t matter what they did, they still heel strike. So in that case, you've got no cushioning. Absolutely. So it won't—again you need to learn how to forefoot run. Yes, it's a skill running just skills Who would have thought?

Lisa: You need to drills and skills and so when we say running forefoot make sure that your heel does kiss the ground. You don't want to be bouncing up and down on your like you see some fishy girls running I just saw without the heel touching the ground and on like running like a ballerina. And so…

Dave: Oh, yes, that's gonna cause you a whole different problems. Yes, certainly there's some—they’ll say go slow but also know that you know there's a skill component to it as well. So if you want to do more forefoot yes get some get some running coach and get some expertise and some technical help to help you get there if that's something you really want to go.

Lisa: Yes, drills and skills we do the video analysis and all that sort of stuff and we can help you tailor the right drills and skills for you there.

Dave you've been amazing again as usual. I'm hoping to have you on a few more times next year because we can talk for an hour I think and…

Dave: I like to see—I wonder what the next random topic we can do.

Lisa: Oh, there's just so much we can learn from your great knowledge. So Dave, where can people find you and give us—can you search out that link if you can on the bunions that'd be great again.

Dave: My mum will be happy to be a star on...

Lisa: It’s really gonna be great. I've got one of those so I need to work on those exercises.

Dave: Yes, if you do go to the Holistic Movement Coach YouTube, there are quite a few videos on there really because it's near electronic peer but I'll have the last few years anyway. So there is a reasonable amount there. H-M, H for halo, M for maverick, dash coach dot com that’s where you can find Holistic Movement Coach. If you're looking—if you have some foot problem and need your hand there. My guys are on there too, who are trained up in this stuff? They can help you at your local area if you're living in the southern hemisphere anyway.

Lisa: Yes, yes. No. Fantastic.

Dave: That would be the place to have a look there.

Lisa: Okay. That's really, really gold. Thank you so much for your time. It's very early where you are, Dave. You're getting out of bed early. And thanks very much for sharing your wisdom today.

Dave: It's been a big thank you and thanks for having me.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Are you facing an obstacle that you fear you can’t overcome, or a milestone you can’t seem to reach? Don’t let this emotion trap you; everyone experiences difficulties when starting something new. Face the challenge head-on! Conquering will make you stronger. And what better way to challenge yourself than by running a marathon?

This week, Angie and Trevor Spencer from the Marathon Training Academy join us for a conversation on all things marathon running. They share their experiences about their running journey and the marathoning community they created. Angie discusses how she got into marathoning and how it led to their podcast. They also recount their most memorable marathons and the lessons that they learned along the way. Finally, we learn the value of facing challenges, staying in the present, and paying attention to our overall health.

If you want to overcome life's obstacles and know how to train for a marathon, this episode is for you.

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Episode Highlights [05:43] About Marathon Training Academy * Inspired by Angie's experiences with marathons, Angie and Trevor started Marathon Training Academy back in 2010. * Marathon Training Academy helps people learn how to train for a marathon. They also provide tips, strategies, and principles on how to run marathons well. * To date, the show has over 10.8 million downloads.

[08:15] Angie’s Marathoning Career * Angie shares that we need to be careful about comparing our accomplishments to others. * At first, she started running to lose weight. After giving birth to her second child, Angie signed up for her first 5k race. * Then, she decided she needed a bigger challenge, so she signed up for her first marathon. * Although the experience itself was miserable, Angie knew that she wanted to experience the feeling of finishing a marathon again. * Her personal experiences paved the way for Marathon Training Academy. She wanted to teach others how to train for a marathon so that they won’t get injured.

[14:19] Learning How to Train for a Marathon to Avoid Mistakes * Many runners think they don’t need coaches, but it’s essential to have guidance. * Seek good advice on how to train for a marathon so you can reduce injuries. * Being part of a community can also help you avoid costly mistakes.

[16:14] Marathon Training Academy’s Growth * They started in 2010, around the second wave of podcasting. Back then, many people were still not aware of what podcasts are. * We’re now in the fourth wave of podcasting, where even news agencies and TV shows have podcasts. * Trevor shared that connecting with their audience helped build the community from the start. * So, they would do shout-outs during their episodes. They are also active on social media. * Angie and Trevor also recognise the value of their audience’s time. So, they try to keep their episodes short while giving out as much valuable information as possible.

[20:31] Angie’s Journey Towards 50 Marathons in 50 States * Angie first heard about running challenges when she encountered the Marathon Maniacs. You can get into this club if you do two races in two weeks or three in 90 days. * At first, she thought that she wasn’t up to the challenge, but she proved herself wrong. * We often make excuses about not being able to do something. If you surround yourself with people taking on these big challenges, you push yourself as well. * She then challenged herself to run 50 races in 50 states. This endeavour took 12 years. * Trevor shares that Angie ran her 50th marathon the fastest. This achievement only proves that age can’t stop you from challenging yourself.

[24:47] We’re All Different * We’re all built differently, so don’t feel pressured to do back-to-back marathons. Find what works best for you and your health. * Don’t be caught up in the misconception that running marathons can slim you down. * Also, don't compare yourself to others — focus on yourself and your progress.

[29:10] Angie and Trevor’s Most Memorable Races * Trevor’s favourite race was the Jungfrau Marathon in Switzerland because of the views. He talks more about the experience in the full episode. * Meanwhile, Angie loves the Loch Ness Marathon in Scotland. She also enjoys several other races in the US. * Trevor shares that his toughest race was a 50k race in Montana. He admits that he wasn't able to train for it. * On the other hand, Angie’s toughest race is the Leadville Trail Marathon. Located in Colorado, this race starts at 10,000 feet and continues to go up.

[34:23] Lessons Learned from Running Marathons * Marathons can teach you a lot about life. As people, we're continuously changing and evolving. * Running accomplishments are good. However, you need to take care of your overall health as you train for a marathon. * We also have to learn how to appreciate the present and the challenges that come with it. Doing hard things prepares you for the struggles ahead. * Marathoning teaches you to have a singular focus to reach your goals.

[38:50] How Running Marathons Builds Resilience * When you do hard things, it becomes easier to push through the obstacles in life. This idea is called obstacle immunity. * It’s important to acknowledge difficult situations, but don’t let that stop you. Instead, use these emotions to fuel you. * Once you overcome a challenge, your horizon expands. You see the other battles you can overcome.

[43:59] How Angie and Trevor Balances Life * Angie shares that being self-employed helps them find the time to run and train for a marathon. * They also try to include their children in the marathoning journey.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Running is putting one step in front of the other and then being open to learning.’ ‘I think doing things in community makes it so much richer.’ ‘A lot of times we make excuses why we can't do something and sometimes, it seems very valid at the moment. But it's all a matter of priorities.’ ‘For most of us, it is about you versus you. I think that's the beautiful thing about this sport. That we can all do this together but it's actually each of our journeys.’ ‘It is important to have goals and everything, but I think it's also important to just look at your overall health.’ ‘If I can't be happy now, I'm not going to be happy in the future. If I accomplish these goals, there's always going to be something else to chase.’ ‘Having done hard things in the past prepares you for those challenges that you never wanted to take on in the first place.’ About Angie and Trevor Angie and Trevor Spencer started the Marathon Training Academy Podcast in 2010 to empower and inspire people to achieve better health with marathons. The show shares simple and actionable tips on how to train for a marathon.

Angie delved into the world of marathons after having her second child. However, she was plagued by training injuries. So, she was determined to find a better way to train for a marathon. Thus, the Marathon Training Academy was born.

She has since run 66 marathons with a PR of 3:19:55. She is also a Registered Nurse and a USATF Level 1 and RRCA Level 2 certified running coach. Meanwhile, Trevor is the manager and producer of the Marathon Training Academy. He has completed 17 marathons, one 50k, 21 half-marathons, and a Spartan Trifecta.

Want to learn more about Marathon Training Academy? Check out their website and listen to their episodes on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.

You can also reach out to them on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends to inspire them to seek challenges and teach them why it's crucial to train for a marathon well.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You can also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone. Lisa Tamati here at Pushing the Limits. Welcome back to the show. Today, I have Trevor and Angie from the Marathon Training Academy in the United States, really well-known podcasters and run coaches. So our equivalent, over in the States. But these guys have been going for a long time and doing fantastic things. I heard their podcast when I was looking for information on my friend Dean Karnazes's latest book and listened to the podcast. I thought these guys are really rock stars, so I reached out to them. I have them on the show today so really exciting. They're in Montana in the United States, and they’ve got some great ideas and great information for you. This is one for the runners out there, and we get into all sorts of topics as well. Really, really exciting.

Before we head on over to the show, just want to let about our epigenetics program. We'd love you to come and do our flagship program about epigenetics to help you understand your genetics and how to optimise. This is really the future of personalised health is understanding what your genes are doing. All your health professionals should be personalising everything to your own genetics, and this information is pretty damn valuable. If you want to have a user manual for your own body, understand what food you should have, what types of exercise you'll benefit mostly from, your mood and behaviour, your hormones, what predispositions you have, all this fantastic information that you'll get about yourself when you go through this program.

Then, we can help you actually put it into place so how do you actually... Because it's great to get information and reports. A lot of the DNA reports that you get, you basically get 'Oh, that's nice' and it's a report and you stick it in your top drawer because you don't know what to do with it. But that's what we help you with. It's really powerful information that can really change your life. It certainly changed mine and changed my approach to different areas in what I do, what I eat, what times I do things, the way I set up my entire day, all of these things are affected. Head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the 'Work with Us' button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics Program there.

We've also got BOOSTCAMP coming up on the first of September. You'll be listening to this after that so this round will have already started but we will be running this eight-week live webinar program again. We'd love you to come and check it out if you want to upgrade your life in all areas, understand how your biology works, understand everything that can help you achieve high performance, help you with health journeys, a really intimate small group of people who are wanting to upgrade their lives. Make sure you check that out. You can go to peakwellness.co.nz. I'll say that again, peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp.

Lastly, before we head to the show, don't forget our NMN supplements. nmnbio.nz is where you'll find out all the information about this longevity and anti-aging supplement by Dr Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist, really powerful supplement that has been doing some amazing things for me, and my life, and my family's health, and turning back the clock, basically. It's up-regulating your sirtuin genes, which are your longevity genes, helping with the NAD levels in your cells which are... Every single cell needs NAD and these deplete as we get older, so check out the science behind it, check out the information. There's two podcast episodes that I've done with Dr Elena also on Pushing the Limits, go and check those out if you want to do a deep dive into it. Head on over to nmnbio.nz.

Right. Now, just before we head over to the show, I want you also to maybe follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, on YouTube. Especially our YouTube channel. If you can go and subscribe to our YouTube channel, that really supports the show. All of the shows are actually put up on YouTube. Just, if you search for Lisa Tamati when you go to YouTube, you'll come up with my channel and make sure you subscribe. There's a ton of videos on there. We've got about 600, I think, including all my documentaries as well. Make sure you check that out and we'll head on over to the show with Trevor and Angie.

Hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have Trevor and Angie from the Marathon Training Academy. It's super exciting to have you guys. Welcome to the show.

Angie: Thanks so much, Lisa. It's great to be here.

Trevor: Yeah, we're excited about this.

Lisa: Yeah, well, I found you actually through a mutual friend, Dean Karnazes, who I know you've had on the show a couple of times. Dean's been a huge influence in my life as you can possibly imagine. I owe him so much both as a role model and as a friend. He's done lots of things for us. He's a wonderful guy, so shout out to Dean, who I think has just got out of lockdown in Australia. He was intending to run around Australia and that's been curtailed because of the bloody COVID thing. Yeah, shout out to Dean. Thanks for introducing us. I just loved your show so I thought, 'Well, I got to have you guys on.'

You guys are running coaches, and you have three kids. Let's start there. Tell us a little bit about your training academy, and what you do, and your podcast, and all that sort of good stuff.

Trevor: Yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for the opportunity to be on the podcast here. I'll introduce myself. This is Trevor. I am America's most okay-est runner.

Angie: I thought you were gonna say laziest.

Trevor: Laziest? No.

Lisa: That’s me.

Trevor: Angie is my better half. She's actually the running coach. I'm more like the business guy behind the scenes. We started in 2010. We launched the Marathon Training Academy podcast because we figured, 'Hey, maybe Angie had some knowledge and experience running a couple marathons, maybe people would benefit from learning how to do it.' We launched it and have been pretty much releasing content consistently for the last 11 years. It is not easy, as you know.

Lisa: No it is not. It is so, so impressive to keep going for that long. We've been going five and a half years, and I thought I was ancient and the podcast basically. So amazing. You've got a huge following and a huge... You're telling me some of your download stats and I'm like, 'I'm embarrassed.' You guys are rock stars.

Trevor: I guess we've been fortunate in the beginning when we've launched. I don't think there was a lot of competition for what we were talking about there. At least in the US, on iTunes, there was podcasts where people would carry a recorder out when they ran and they would just dictate breathing really heavy into the mic and stuff. There wasn't a whole lot of prescriptive training advice, which is what we tried to do. When we tell stories and we do race recaps and take people with us as we go racing around the country. But we try to be prescriptive: sharing lots of tips and strategies and principles.

Angie’s also a registered nurse as well as being a running coach, so that appealed to people. It just took off in the beginning. We got lucky. I guess it was dumb luck. I don't know, but we started connecting with people right away. Folks would email us from all over the world. We just had a great audience ever since. I just checked the numbers today. Our show’s been downloaded 10.8 million times since we started.

Lisa: That is insane. I got a long way to go to catch up to you guys. You guys are rock stars. Angie, you are a legend in the running space. You've already done 50 marathons in 50 states, for one thing. Tell us a bit about your career.

Angie: Well, I definitely don't feel like a legend. I guess that's when you are the person who is doing it all you always kind of feel like, 'Wow.' I kind of feel there’s still so much that could be accomplished. There's always that comparison trap we can fit ourselves into. There's always someone who can run faster unless you're Eliud Kipchoge. There's always somebody who's done more crazy challenges. I think that's a dangerous field to start comparing yourself to other people, but I will say that I started running off and on when I was a teenager. I didn't have a great motivation. It was more about trying to lose weight. When I didn't see instant results, then I would kind of give it up and be like, 'Oh, this isn't working.'

But I do feel I really finally became a runner in my late 20s. We'd moved across the country. It was a move that I really didn't want to make. It was for work, and I had two little kids at home. I just felt I was stuck, and I needed a new challenge. Kind of on a whim, I signed up for a 5k race and they say the 5k is the gateway drug to long-distance running. In my case, it was. It was a completely miserable race. It was hot and humid and I'm not a good hot weather runner, but I felt there was a spark inside me. This is something that really fired me up. It wasn't about beating other people. In fact, I had a very, very average time but I just kind of felt like, 'Wow, I bet you I can get better at this.'

I'd never considered myself an athlete before. I never played any sports, so running was something, it was just kind of me against me. I decided I need a bigger challenge, so I signed up for my first marathon. At the time, I didn't have any friends who are runners. They probably would have advised me against it, actually. I don't know anyone who had ever done a marathon before. In fact, at the time, we were so poor that I could either afford the race registration or a new pair of shoes. My mom actually paid for my race registration, so I consider her my first official sponsor.

I'm training for this marathon on my own. Long story short, I do everything wrong. I just run. I don't do any kind of recovery or cross-training or strength training. I'm getting injured, dealing with back pain, and IT band pain, and all the things, but I was stubborn enough that I kept going and was able to finish the marathon. Although it felt completely gruelling at times, just when I crossed the finish line, it really... I was like, 'Wow, I know I'm going to do this again.' That kind of just started my journey. I actually, after that first marathon, had to take three months off of running because my IT band was so bad. Had knee pain. The whole nine yards.

That's when I started doing yoga and kind of discovered like, 'Wow, I can really start to learn more about my body, not ignore these signals that it's sending me.' There are some areas that need to be strengthened and I think that kind of sowed the seeds for what became Marathon Training Academy. Because I wanted to help people have a better experience than I did the first time: have the knowledge, have the information to not get injured and not have to do things the hard way.

I went on to run my second marathon training much smarter and was able to break four hours for the first time, which was a huge goal of mine. I think that's kind of when Trevor mentioned wanting to start a podcast about marathon training. I was like, 'I don't feel like I know enough. Who's going to listen to us? We're just sitting in our living room recording this thing.' I had very low aspirations for where it was going to go, but he had the vision. We stuck with it and just have had a very wonderful, gracious audience. We’ve just been able to meet so many amazing people throughout the years. I think that's been the most rewarding part of it.

Lisa: That's amazing. Trevor, your wife's bit of a superstar, from what it sounds, but she's very humble.

Trevor: She's amazing. She puts me to shame. She does everything that you're supposed to do, that your coach tells you, that you see on your training plan, doesn't miss a day, doesn't miss a workout. I do 25% of my training plan.

Lisa: That's brilliant though. But I love the fact that you... Like me, when I started running, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. I just put one foot in front of the other. I was hopeless, and I was slow. I'm still slow 25 years later. Genetically speaking, not the most gifted person in the world but very, very stubborn. That's all you need with running. I love that you are all about the everyday runner. We have a running coaching arm of our company as well, and we are very much into that holistic approach to running too, with the strengths, and the immobility, and the mindset, and the nutrition, and all of that sort of stuff.

I had no idea about that back in the day and I just bumbled along, running long because that's what you did, isn't it? If you're going to run long, you run long. What the hell is strength training? What do I need that for? I think we know we've both bumbled into the space and this is the key thing, I think, from your story. That when you just keep going, and keep going, and keep going, you suddenly find yourself looking back on, 'Holy heck, I've done a lot. I've done some pretty amazing things.'

It's just like running is putting one step in front of the other and then being open to learning, getting good coaching so that you... because I like what you said, Angie, about making mistakes and then not wanting other people to make them. That is just the motivation for what we do too because I reinvented the entire wheel, and you don't need to. Do you find a lot of runners come and they don't think they need a coach for starters? Most people only come to you when they're injured. Is that happens to you guys as well?

Angie: Yeah, I think often, there is part of human nature, and I think certain personality types who are more driven to like, 'I'm going to do this myself and I'm stubborn. I'm going to see this through.' Yeah, maybe they've tried a few times to hit a specific time goal that they have, and they realise, 'Wow, it's not going in the direction that I thought it should be going or the injury issues.’

I think people's knowledge and information, it's better now. There's so much more out there that a lot of people who are probably smarter than I was are like, 'Hey, I can probably cut out the injury part, and I can get good advice and good help in the beginning and make this so much a better journey.' I think also for me, I went alone for the first few years. Just being part of the community makes it so much more special, and I think the running community is just amazing. You meet the best people and have conversations with people like you. I think doing things in community makes it so much richer.

Lisa: Oh, man. I could learn so much from you guys. I think you've got a really good approach to it. Trevor, looking back into podcast space, because you say you're the businessman behind the amazing lady, got any tips for a podcaster? Because obviously you guys are doing something right. You started off in this space like... You've grown this massively. I know what goes into it. When you come to it a bit later, it's been a bit harder, for sure. What have you learned on that journey from a community-building point of view? Because I feel we've still got work to do in that space, and I'm always keen to learn from people who are so successful.

Trevor: Well, one thing, when Angie was talking and she was telling the story of when I pitched the podcast idea to her, one thing she didn't tell you was her first response was, because this was 2010, actually '09 when I pitched the idea. Her first response was, 'What's a podcast?'

Angie: Totally ignorant.

Lisa: Yeah, we still get people not knowing what the hell a podcast is.

Trevor: Yeah, so I think getting in early, obviously, was a big help to us. Kind of to be on the front end of a trend. We actually started in what was called the second wave of podcasting. Podcasting got going in earnest around '06, so they say that was the first wave. And then around 2010 was the second wave. There's a lot more shows starting and now, we might be in the fourth wave of podcasting now where almost every major company has a podcast, every news agency and every late-night TV show host.

It's definitely a more crowded space. But on the other hand, there are still people, like you said, who'd never heard of a podcast. More and more people are coming to the medium, downloading shows. Podcasts is becoming more mainstream. I know here, at least in the US, it's not unusual to hear people on TV talking about podcasts, just in anywhere you look, you can see subscribe to my podcast. It's cool to see the cultural awareness rise since we've started.

But I think in terms of tips on growing the show and community, one thing that helped us in the beginning, and still helps us, is hearing from listeners, featuring their stories. At the top of our show, every episode, we do shout outs where kind of like a virtual high five. People are, like all of us, people like to hear their name in a podcast. It just makes them feel... Yeah, lights them up. It puts a smile on their face, and we try to do that a lot where we engage the audience that way. Then, the off-podcast stuff too is also important like our social media stuff and all that. Yeah, building community.

Angie: We also kind of try to keep in top of mind like, 'What's in it for the listener?' Because at the end of the day, people only have so much brain space and time. They're going to keep listening to shows that they feel you're giving them good value and that they connect to you in some way. I think just keeping that listener focus and stuff. No one wants to hear about a dissertation of what we've been doing for the last week in-depth. They want to get to know us a little bit, but they also want to know that we care about their needs and everything and what's top of mind. I think that's been helpful as well.

Trevor: Yeah, I edit our show judiciously. Oh, yeah. I spend way too much time. I'm just a perfectionist with it. I haven't been able to outsource that yet, so I edit our show and I'm like, I don't know what the word is, I'm just a stickler when it comes to audio quality. Also like Angie said, I know people's time is important, so if we go down a certain path in the conversation that I think is not pertinent enough, I'll just cut it. I'll take that one-hour episode then maybe sometimes cut it down to 40 minutes.

Angie: He has to edit out all my ‘likes’ and ‘you knows’, all my verbal clutter. It takes about half of the content away.

Lisa: It's so much work. It's just so much work but I love that you do that, and you're a perfectionist. I'm technically completely disabled. I have a team of people behind me doing a lot of stuff, but we can still improve and get better. I love the meandering type of conversations that we have. Let's go and talk a little bit about... For start, Angie, I do have to ask you about your 50 marathons in 50 states, like our friend Dean. How did that come about and when did this become a challenge?

Angie: Well, sometimes things just kind of sneak up on you. I think it was my fourth marathon and it was before the race. I was sitting around talking to a couple ladies and they had these shirts on that said: 'Marathon Maniacs.' I was like, 'What do those shirts mean? What's a marathon maniac?' They're like, 'Oh, it's a club where you have to run a certain number of marathons to be able to get in.’ I was like, 'Oh, how many?' They said, 'Well, you have to do two in two weeks or three in ninety days.' I was like, 'What?' That's crazy. That's a maniac.' I was like, 'I could never do that.' I said that I could never do that, and they're like, 'Oh, you could if you really wanted to.'

That just kind of stuck with me. I was like, a lot of times we make excuses why we can't do something, and sometimes, it seems very valid at the moment. But it's all a matter of priorities. That stuck with me. I'm like, 'Could I do that?' Later that fall, I did end up doing three marathons in that 90-day space, and I became a marathon maniac. When you surround yourself with people who are doing all these big challenges... I would joke that I was like a baby maniac because there was people who had done three, four, five hundred marathons in the club that you would see at these races.

Then, of course, I heard about the 50 state club. People who run a marathon in each of the 50 states. I thought, 'Wow, that would be cool. I already have a few states under my belt. Why not?’ It doesn't have to be anything like Dean Karnazes doing it in 50 days. No one cares how long it takes and everything. Both Trevor and I love to travel. It seemed like a really great way to be able to explore our very diverse country and see all these amazing places, get to run. It just kind of started that way, and it took me 12 years to finish all 50 states. But it's about the journey and not the destination.

Lisa: Absolutely and that is a really... It rolls off the tongue really beautifully. Yeah. I’ve done a marathon in every state, 50 states.

Trevor: Here's what's cool, Lisa. I don't know if Angie is going to tell you this but she actually ran her last marathon fastest. That was her fastest marathon. That's what's so cool about our sport: that even though you get older, you can still improve in so many ways. Her very 50th state was in Hawaii. She ran 319, qualified for Boston by 20 minutes and that was at age 41. She was 10 years older but ran an hour faster than when she started.

Lisa: I love it. Go, the oldie. I'm way older than you, so I can say that. I totally agree. Endurance is one of those things. I read a statistic once said a 19-year-old and a 64-year-old are on the same level of endurance or something. You peak around 48 as far as endurance goes and I'm like, 'Yeah, amen to that.' I have similar stories. I did my best performances in my 42, 43, around that age were my peak performances. I'm way after that now, so things have slid off a little bit. Of course, it's what's going on in your life. I've had a few other dramas in my life. There's reasons for things slipping off, but I love that. 319 is an incredible time. That's just amazing.

Angie: I still can't believe I did that. Was that me? I don't know. It was just one of those days where everything comes together, and you can never predict that.

Trevor: In Hawaii to boot.

Lisa: Yeah, isn't it really hot in Hawaii? Isn't that really difficult to do?

Angie: It was January so it was cooler, but it was hot compared to what I was used to.

Lisa: Amazing. Trevor, how many did you do of those states? You did a few of them?

Trevor: I have. I think I'm up to 17 marathons. I'm actually doing my 18th in about 10 days from now.

Angie: But he's done a lot of half marathons. A lot of the time where I'd be doing a marathon, he would do the half marathon so he's probably run in most of those states as well.

Lisa: I study genetics, right? We have a epigenetics and functional genomics arm to our business. Everybody is genetically different. When people listen to you and go, 'My god. She's amazing. She’s run 50 marathons in 50 states.' I want people to not take away from that that they should be doing back-to-back marathons because even though yeah, that's really cool to have these challenges, we're not all genetically set up for that. We need to respect that sometimes. It's been fascinating, this journey of learning about genetics.

When I did my genetics, it came back... Actually, I'm really not suited to the super long-distance running. I was like, 'What? Is that why I've got all these health problems?' Actually, my body is more set up... That doesn't mean I can't ever do an ultramarathon again, but it does mean if that if I want to have longevity and health for a long time which I do now, because I'm 50 so I want to make sure that I stay on top of things, then I shouldn't be doing back to back ultras. That my body is much more suited to doing shorter and high-intensity sort of workouts and lots of yoga and Pilates and things as well.

I just want people to take away from there, everybody is different. For some people like my husband, he can run super super long, and it's genetically good for him to do that. For me, not so much. One of the other things that I've found within our running coaching, and we get a lot of ladies, we're probably about 70% ladies in our run coaching community. A lot of them are in their 30s, 40s, 50s. It's not the best weight loss thing, is it?

Angie: I could gain weight while running marathons and even watching what I'm eating so yeah, it is definitely. It's tricky.

Lisa: Yeah, it's not. For people to understand, if you're wanting to do a weight loss program, that would be a completely different program that I'd set you than if you're wanting to do marathons for the challenge of doing a marathon. Because there is this misconception that yeah, 'I run a marathon and I get really thin and slim.' No. I got fatter doing marathons. When I ran through New Zealand, I put on weight, and I was running 70-odd kilometres a day. Then, I put on my... I'm like, 'The hell is this about?' Everybody is different. Respect your genes. Respect your body. And as Angie said at the beginning of this podcast, compare yourself only to yourself. Unless you're in the Olympics, then, you probably compare yourself to the others. But for most of us, it is about you versus you. I think that's the beautiful thing about this sport. That we can all do this together but it's actually each of our journeys.

Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody, and we want to keep it that way. But to do that we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's patron.lisatamati.com.

We have two patron levels to choose from. You can do it for as little as 7 dollars a month, New Zealand, or 15 dollars a month if you really want to support us. We are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us: everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power to vote on future episodes, webinars that we're going to be holding, all of my documentaries, and much, much more. So check out all the details: patron.lisatamati.com. And thanks very much for joining us.

Lisa: Trevor, what was your favourite race that you've done?

Trevor: Oh, thanks for asking. There's this marathon I love to talk about. You've probably heard of it. It's the Jungfrau Marathon in Switzerland. That's such a beautiful place. It's almost unreal. Otherworldly how beautiful it is.

Angie: Probably like New Zealand actually. Really beautiful.

Trevor: I've heard it's nice there too. Well, I haven't been in New Zealand yet, unfortunately. As of right now, Switzerland is my favourite place that I've run. They say that when, for those Lord of the Rings nerds who might be listening, when Tolkien, after World War I, was marching through the Lauterbrunnen Valley in Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland. He sees this amazing place and that was the inspiration for Rivendale in the book, in the movies.

Lisa: They did it there first.

Trevor: Yep, exactly.

Lisa: Then, we came to New Zealand to film it ‘cause it was even better.

Trevor: What's cool about that marathon is it's just pretty much all up this mountain until you get to this 7,000 feet elevation. It's pretty much a lot of power hiking. Yeah, exactly. It's pretty much a thousand... It's pretty much a lot of power hiking after the second half, which is fine because I felt like I was still making progress. But people were throwing up on the side of the trail, and I was fine because I was just I'm just power hiking. I was kind of used to it. That's been my favourite marathon thus far. Plus I had the Alps horns, Swiss Alps horns and stuff. Very transcendent.

Lisa: It was so special. I lived in Austria for 13 years and would go over to Switzerland regularly. Austria and Switzerland are very similar. And just absolutely beautiful. I really miss the beauty of the place, and the culture, and the traditions, and the cool boating. All of those sorts of things. Yeah, it's pretty special. What about you Angie? What's your favourite race?

Angie: I don't know. It's hard to hard to pick one. I would say my favourite international race was the Loch Ness marathon in Scotland. Just going around Loch Ness the lake and just incredibly beautiful. Just the chance to be able to be there and be in the country and see so many amazing things. But I don't know. There's a lot of races that I love here in the US as well. Boston is a very iconic special race. The Marine Corps marathon is really moving. Yeah, Washington, DC. Then, my home state is Montana. I've gotten to do a couple marathons there. Of course, I'm a little biased, but I love the mountains there.

Lisa: Absolutely. For both of you, what was your toughest race? Have you ever not made the finish line?

Trevor: Thankfully, no.

Angie: Actually that one race that they closed the finish line.

Trevor: Oh, yeah. I remember the marathon in... That was an Austria fact in 2019. They had to shut the course down because of the weather. I think that for me, the toughest race was 50k in Montana. I was probably undertrained because I'm so lazy, and I ended up taking lots of breaks.

Angie: Like laying on the ground.

Trevor: But I finished before the cut off and I wasn't dead last.

Lisa: You take whatever you can get when you go to the bottom of the barrel. That's not much... If you get across the finish line...

Trevor: Exactly. It was on the Continental Divide Trail so there's a lot of elevation. How about you, Angie?

Angie: There have been a lot of marathons where I finished feeling, or even ultras, that was dragging a body part behind me but I was too stubborn to quit kind of thing. But I think, probably the most difficult one was the Leadville Trail Marathon in Leadville, Colorado because it starts at 10,000 feet and it just goes up from there. There was a section, a one-mile section to get up to Hope Pass, which was the highest point, and it took me 30 minutes to go a mile. I would just walk a few feet, just breathe, gasp for air, pretend like you're taking a picture because you're embarrassed at your pace. That was very challenging because I was not... We were living in sea level basically. To go and do that not being acclimated, it was challenging. Then, to look to the side of the trail and like, 'If I make a misstep, I'm going to fall off this mountain and die.' One of those where I finished and I was just like, 'So thankful to be alive.'

Lisa: Sounds pretty damn scary. What do you think are the biggest learnings from all of these races in this journey that you've been on for however long you've been running for? What what are some of the biggest takeaways? Do you think this crosses over into daily life, and to your businesses, and to the work you do, and stuff like that, and challenges in your home life, and stuff?

Angie: Yeah, I would say the marathon and any long-distance running is a great metaphor for life because you have to look at the long picture. Like you were saying earlier, we're always changing and evolving as people, and we have to keep that in mind. I've kind of through the years, through some trial and error, my goal is to be a strong healthy runner for life. Being healthy through that lifespan is way more important than any one race for me. I think that it's very important like we see people who are taking on these challenges.

It is important to have goals and everything but I think it's also important to just look at your overall health. Is your sleep, is your nutrition, is your overall strength, are your relationships good? How is your mental, and your emotional, your spiritual life? All those things go hand in hand. I think that at some point, running accomplishments are only going to be so satisfying if those other things aren’t in place. That's been a big thing for me. I tend to be really goal-oriented person. Always looking to the future like, 'When this happens, I'm going to be happy and be satisfied.'

I finally came to the realisation that if I can't be happy right now, in the imperfect, the way life is if I can't be happy now, that I'm not going to be happy in the future. If I accomplish these goals, there's always going to be something else to chase. That's been something that I've been thinking about lately of just how to really appreciate the present. I think that really goes into running or whatever people's goals are because there's going to be a lot of the present that is challenging and that we don't want to go through. I think it's important to do hard things, take on hard challenges. But there's going to be a lot of hard things that find us that we don't want to have to deal with, that we're going to be forced to wrestle with. I think that having that long-term goal and having done hard things in the past prepares you for those challenges that you never wanted to take on in the first place.

Lisa: Yeah, when you've been struggling, going back to the genetics, you probably got a dopamine thing where you have to be chasing dopamine all the time. I know I've got that gene called the DRD2 gene where I don't have a heck of a lot of receptors for dopamine, so I'm always chasing a mission. Just coming to understand that about yourself, it's like, 'Aha. That's why I tend to...' Like my brother said to me once, 'Why are you always on a mission? Why can't you just sit on a beach and enjoy the day?' ‘It's like asking a table not to be flat. That’s who I am. I get up and I'm missioning all day, every day.’ And I'm like you, Angie. I'm trying to change the talk in my head to being present.

Sometimes, when you are going through challenges and life keeps chucking them at us at the moment, you don't want to be in the now. One of the big things that I really miss because I'm not doing ultras anymore, is having that single focus, one goal. Life was purely about being a selfish athlete who's just got on a mission. I don't have the luxury of that now with things in life. I miss it. I miss it terribly. That simplicity of life where you've got just one big huge goal and you're doing your work and stuff. But this is the one thing, and then when you're actually in the race, that's what I found beautiful about racing, you're not thinking about the mortgage and the what's going on in the family or anything else because you're just like, [imitates heavy breathing], ‘Got to get up this hill.'

Angie: To the next aid station.

Lisa: Right in the moment. For so much of my life, I know that I'm in the future or the past and that's really learning to be in the now without having that single singular focus. Really wise words, Angie, I think. Trevor, what would you say that running has bought to your mental resilience and toughness and ability to cope with things?

Trevor: Well, I know running marathons makes a lot of other stuff seem easier. Yeah. I remember how tough my first half marathon was, and I thought I was going to die because I was pretty much a non-runner previous to meeting Angie. After I did my first full marathon, then a half seemed a walk in the park. It seemed so easy even though they're still challenging, especially if you're trying to race a half marathon. We've had Joe de Sena on our podcast a couple of times. He's the founder of the Spartan Race.

Lisa: Yeah, I've been on his show. Awesome.

Trevor: Oh, Cool. Yeah. He's a scary guy. I always remember something he talks about in his book, Spartan Up and that's obstacle immunity. When you make yourself do hard things, you become immune to obstacles in life. You can just push through them, hurdle over them. But it's when you're playing it safe, when you're afraid to get out of your comfort zone, sign up for that challenge, that marathon, or whatever your challenges is, it's this when you get more timid and hard things seem harder than they really are. It's all in our heads.

Lisa: Ah, that's gold. Obstacle immunity. That's going on my Instagram today. Thanks, Joe. Because it is. When somebody or when someone tells you can't do something, that's just for me like, 'Oh, we'll see. I don't agree with you. We'll find out.' That's really served me well. The more that you realise when people tell you can't do something, and then you go and do it, that's just other people's limiting beliefs. This is an all areas, certainly in the medical space and with story with my mum that my listeners know about. If I'd listened to everybody telling me I can't do something, we would never be where we are now. I think you have this mentality. You have, 'Oh, obstacle? How do I get around that? What else can I do?' Rather than, 'Oh, obstacle. I have to stop and sit down and cry and that's it.' I think that mentality is brilliant. Obstacle immunity. Hear, hear. I love it.

Angie: It doesn't mean that you don't feel those hard feelings as you get over the obstacle. I think it's important to acknowledge that it's hard and take time to feel that frustration or that sadness or that disappointment. But I think also acknowledging those emotions helps you get over the obstacle too because you're not fighting your emotions then. You're using those and using that to fuel your fire or to just do what needs to be done.

Lisa: What I think is beautiful too is when you look back and you've overcome challenges that makes you stronger for the next challenge. You lift your horizon up every time. You get to the end of your first half marathon. For five minutes, you go, 'I never ever want to do that again because that hurts so much.' Then the next day, you're on the internet, 'What is the next one? Where's the next challenge?' You can see runners do this over and over again. I just laugh now when they say 'I'm never doing that again.' Because it's usually until the pain wears off and they're off on the next mission.

It is like lifting your horizon every time. It's not something that stays out there permanently either, by the way. You build yourself up to marathon, ultramarathon, whatever your goal is. Then if you don't do it for a while, I can tell you as someone who's not doing ultras now, your world starts to shrink back in as to what you are capable of doing. For me, I'm thinking, 'Can I do a half marathon?' That's what I would like at the moment with a load that I've got on, which is a lot, 'Can I get back to that stage?' My focus has been on CrossFit and other things.

My body's changed considerably, for the better I'd say, but when it comes to going back long, whoa. I've got to push that horizon back out again. It doesn't stay permanent. In other words, it's a constant work battle really to keep it. When you're getting older, you've also got that aspect coming into it too, trying to keep things at bay. I had Dean on the podcast last week and we were talking about that because we're both somewhat north of 40. It's like, 'Yeah, things aren't quite working like they used to do. I'm like, 'Yeah, I'm working on that. I've got all these things for you, Dean.' 'Some great longevity stuff. Come try this and do that.'

That's sort of an interesting path to go down to because you start to think, 'Well, I can keep my fitness to the best that I can by keeping up with the current research, and the knowledge, and stuff, and doing the best things, and prioritising things like sleep.' You can have a massive impact on your body, and it's not just about the training I think is what I'm... Yeah. Guys, you've also got three kids. Three kids, busy life, running marathons. Most people can’t, I can't do that. How do you find the time?

Angie: Well, we are very fortunate that now we are self-employed. We kind of can design our own schedules, and I think that's a big advantage to the training because some days, it happens at a certain time. Some days, it has to be pushed around a bit because of appointments, kids, things that we've got going on and everything. We've also tried to include our kids in the journey. Especially when they were young, they would travel with us a lot and they got to go to so many of the states that we travelled to. We tried to expand their horizons as well.

Now that they're older and everything, sometimes, he travels, he's going to Italy next week. I'll stay home with the kids, and then I'll go somewhere in September. It's just about making it work and making sure the family is supportive. It's not like your family has to be your biggest fans because there's only a certain level that your family is going to get it. Like our kids could pretty much care less that we do marathons. They're like, 'So what?'

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. I hear you.

Angie: 'What are you making for dinner, Mom? I don't care that you just ran a race.' You know that kind of thing?

Lisa: They're very good at bringing you back down to earth, family. I've got brothers and yeah. 'You ran across the Sahara? Oh, yeah. Whatever.' 'Oh, you wrote a book? Oh, that's cool. I'll never read it.'

Angie: 'What's it about?' 'Okay.'

Trevor: That's cruel.

Lisa: But that’s family, that keeps you keeps you grounded. 'Oh, would’ve been nice to get a pat on the back.’ They're not like that at all. Very supportive actually, but when we were younger, that was definitely the case. Probably vice versa because my brother does surfing and I'm always like, 'Oh, yeah, are you just riding 20-foot waves? That's cool.' Now, I'm sort of like, 'Oh, Wow. That's pretty awesome. Go guys.'

You guys have been epic today. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. I thank your podcast. And tell everybody where they can find you: Where's the best home to find you on the internet and Instagram and all those sort of good places and how to connect?

Trevor: No problem. Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity to be on the podcast, and if anybody wants to find this, you can just go to marathontrainingacademy.com. If you are looking for our podcast, if you just type in marathon training, we usually just come up as the first result, but it's called The Marathon Training Academy podcast. We're on Instagram, @MarathonAcademy.

Lisa: Wonderful. I will put all those in the show notes. Thank you very much guys for your time today. It's been absolutely wonderful chatting with you.

Angie: Thank you so much.

Trevor: Likewise. Thank you.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In our fast-paced world, everyone feels pressured to be the best and to do their best. It's easy to succumb to worry and anxiety during this time. This week, a superstar athlete encourages us to reframe pressure as an opportunity. You may not be involved in the sports world, but you can still learn from it. For our guest, overcoming high-pressure situations boils down to two things: trusting in the preparation you've done and taking things one step at a time.

Retired All Blacks player Conrad Smith joins us in this episode to talk about his experiences in the sporting world. He gives us a glimpse into his childhood and how he transitioned in and out of professional rugby. It's easy to make sports your whole identity if you're not careful, and Conrad details how athletes can avoid this trap. He also shares how we can equip ourselves to handle high-pressure situations.

If you want to hear about Conrad’s tales with the All Blacks and know how to be better at dealing with being pressured, this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Gain insights on the dangers of being too immersed in a sports bubble. 2. Learn how you can deal with feeling pressured. 3. Understand the importance of adaptability in our fast-changing world.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * A new program, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * All Blacks * International Rugby Players

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Episode Highlights [02:59] Conrad’s Childhood * Conrad’s family used to move around until they settled at New Plymouth when he was six. * His family was very close, as his parents always made time for him and his siblings. * They were also supportive of both his academics and sports. * Conrad spent most of his childhood playing sports and helping out on their family farm.

[09:03] Conrad as a Young Sportsman * Conrad wasn’t initially an overachiever when it comes to sports. * During his time at school, rugby didn’t take up a huge portion of his life. * Conrad didn’t feel pressured to play, unlike most kids involved in sports today. * He’s very grateful that he was able to finish his law degree before he started playing professionally.

[11:44] The Dangers of the Sports System * Nowadays, there’s an obsession with finding talent and training them hard from a young age. * The rationale behind this is to give these kids the best chances of success. However, Conrad is sceptical about this approach. * He believes that balancing life and sports is crucial, especially because sports is a short-term career. * Many athletes end up going bankrupt or developing depression because they don't have a life outside of playing sports.

[16:26] Staying Grounded * When you’re in a sports bubble, it’s easy to lose touch with reality. * If you’re handling a high-paying sports career, you can forget how real people live. * Athletes need to stay grounded and not tie their identity with their sports. This way, they can land on their feet after the bubble bursts. * The challenge is to find other things that you enjoy and avoid the trap of coaching after your playing career ends.

[29:39] On Career Transitions * With the rapid changes in the world, we need to adapt to stay relevant. * It takes courage to change your career. * However, you can always find support when you open up to the people around you.

[33:06] Mental Health in Sports * All athletes feel pressured with their sports—what’s important is how they deal with it. * When you look at being pressured differently, you can see it as an opportunity. * There's no quick fix for handling high-pressure situations. It's essential to find what works for you.

[36:38] How to Deal with Feeling Pressured * Preparation is critical to help overcome feeling pressured. * If you have done the prep work, all that’s left for you to do is execute. * Don’t get overwhelmed by the bigger picture. Instead, focus on the minute details. * You need to be at the top of your game if you’re playing in the Rugby World Cup. Listen to the full episode to hear how Conrad overcomes being pressured!

[45:21] Conrad’s Experiences with the All Blacks * Conrad was playing for the Wellingtons when he was picked to play for the All Blacks. * His fellow players and coaches told him not to feel pressured and encouraged him to have fun. * For Conrad, being an All Black never lost its glow. He acknowledges what the team means for the country. * He believes that the All Blacks continues to perform well because the players uphold the team’s legacy. * In particular, their jersey means so much to Conrad. Find out why when you tune in to the full episode!

[52:51] The Future of Rugby * Now working as a lawyer in the player association, Conrad speculates that women’s rugby will see tremendous growth in the coming years. * The women’s rugby players are more motivated by the sport. They want to reach more women and girls through it. * Since this women's rugby is still a relatively small industry, there's not much effort to commercialise yet. * This can be an advantage. It's similar to how small but nimble companies can overtake big industries.

[59:56] Conrad’s Advice to Parents and Children * It is much more harmful to shelter your children from sports. * As you get serious about sports, remember to stay grounded and balanced. Connect with the real world as much as you can. * Lastly, be open to opportunities and changes.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I think it's fine to keep a balance, and to play other sports, and to experience, just live a normal life. I think you can still excel.’

‘You have a crazy number of bankruptcy, crazy number of rates of depression because they haven't learned to live outside of their sport.’

‘You have a lot of retired players that feel like they have to coach because they think it's all they know. The challenge, I suppose is, then of being careful not to fall into that trap.’

‘Whatever you decide that you want to be, you can become.’

‘The bigger the moments and the bigger the pressure, it's the funny thing, it's the more important that you focus on the smaller, minute detail.’

‘If you break it down into one more step, just one more, and then you just keep going and keep going. Then, invariably, that mindset or that thing that's in your head passes and then you're back in the game.’

‘If it's a conversation you're just having in your own mind, you will never get anywhere. You just need to open up about it.’

About Conrad Conrad Smith was a long-time player of New Zealand’s All Blacks and helped lead the team to the 2011 and 2015 Rugby World Cups. He is widely known as “The Snake” for his ability to slip through tackles. At 38, he captained the Wellington-based Hurricanes in the Southern Hemisphere’s Rugby league, then retired after the 2015 World Cup.

He now serves as legal counsel and project manager for International Rugby Players, the global representative body for the sport. He is also the high-performance manager for Pau, a French club that competes in the Top 14, the highest in the country’s domestic league.

Find out more about Conrad and his work at International Rugby Players.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they can learn what to do when they feel pressured.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Lisa Tamati speaking. Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have Conrad Smith, the famous, famous All Black, who many of you Kiwis at least will know, a superstar athlete. And we share information about his career, and what it's like to be in the World Cup, and lots of exciting stuff. Also, what it's like to be post-career now, retiring, some of the issues that he sees around young athletes. Really lovely and interesting conversation with the amazing Conrad Smith who's also a lawyer as well as an All Black. Talk about an overachiever.

Before we get on to the show, just want to remind you, we have our epigenetics flagship program that we're running constantly. So if anybody wants to find out what the genes are all about, and how to optimise your food, your exercise, your lifestyle, your chronobiology, your mood and behaviour, all these things to your specific genes, and get the blueprint and the user manual for your body, then please come and check out what we do. Head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the ‘Work with Us’ button, and then you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program. That will take you over to our site where you can find out all about that. Or you can always reach out to me, and I can send you a little bit of a video, and maybe jump on a call to explain how it all works. It's a really powerful and awesome program. We've taken hundreds and hundreds of people through this program, and it's really been life-changing for so many, including myself and my family. So if you're wanting to find out about that, just head on over to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button.

Also, just wanted to let you know that I do a lot of motivational speaking, corporate speaking. I would love if anyone knows, or organising a conference, or team workshop, or anything like that, please reach out to me: lisa@lisatamati.com if you're interested in finding out about my speaking programs. Also, we do corporate wellness programs on that front as well. How can you upgrade your life and be the best version of you can be at work and at home? That's what we're all about. So thanks for that letting me do that little plug.

Now, we're going to be going over to Conrad Smith who's just been moved back to New Plymouth. I've had the privilege of meeting him a number of times and working on a couple of things. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. Now, over to Conrad.

Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week with Lisa Tamati. I am really excited for today's conversation. I've teamed up with another amazing superstar, a top athlete for you guys to enjoy learning from today. I have Conrad Smith. Conrad, welcome to the show.

Conrad Smith: Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for the introduction.

Lisa: You hardly need an introduction especially to people living in New Zealand. A legendary All Black. You played for how many years? I think it's 2004?

Conrad: 15 years.

Lisa: 15 as an All Black, as a winger. You've been a captain of the Hurricanes. You've been, I don't know, Player of the Year and Sportsman of the Year in Wellington. Your accolades are such a huge list, Conrad. You're blushing already, I can see. But really, an incredible athletic career and you were also talented as a cricketer, I understand.

Conrad: When I was a little fella, when I was little fella. I was too little for rugby so I played more cricket, but yeah.

Lisa: And then you grew.

Conrad: I was a New Zealander. New Zealand kid back then. Yeah, then I grew up. That's right.

Lisa: Yeah. Then you grew up and you were big enough to take on the big boys. Say, Conrad, give us a little bit of a feel like where you grew up. And how much of an influence did your childhood have on what you ended up doing with your rugby career?

Conrad: Yeah. So I was actually born down Hawera. My father was a policeman so we moved around with him a little bit in the early years, and then moved to New Plymouth when I was about six. We’re a very, very close family. He gave a lot of time. My mom and dad would always make time for the kids: a couple older brothers, younger sister. Yeah, it was a great childhood. A lot of sport was played but we all did pretty well academically, which my parents laughed at because both of them never made it. They did poorly in school. Really, really supportive parents in terms of... It's funny, I probably took it for granted then, but I don't ever remember my parents either not being there or having to work.

Everything we did, we always were supported. And they were there, whether it was just drive us there, or coach our teams, or try and help us with our homework. I think that was what I've, like I said, took for granted but now, being older, I realise how important that was and why we're still such a close family, and my brothers are my best mates, and my sister is. We still meet. Yeah we still, obviously. We're all sort of have moved around the world but we're sort of pretty close together again. I suppose I try to be now with my own family like my dad was to me. Yeah, so those were the luckiest break in my head, I suppose. I always say people talk about luck, especially in sport but for me, it was just the family I was born into and the sport I had as a young fella.

Lisa: Yeah. Now, that's brilliant. And you had a couple of kids yourself?

Conrad: Yeah, yeah. Now, we've got two of them, just about to go off to school. Luca is my seven, and we had him in New Zealand, and then our daughter was actually born over in France while I was over there for four or five years. She's come back with us.

Lisa: Growing up in the... You grew up in the 80s, I grew up in the 70s. Showing my age, yeah. But I think in the 80s, it was still very much like an outdoorsy lifestyle, like that good Kiwi kid upbringing, especially in Taranaki because we both come from here. Having that being outdoors in nature all day, as kids, we never came home before dark, sort of thing. Was it the same in your household?

Conrad: Yeah, for sure and like I say to all the brothers, they were pretty influential in what I did. I just sort of hung around, tail off them but very much, we were always out. I just think of my childhood, it was all about playing sport, finding areas to play sport. You'd sort of get pushed out, and as we try and play inside, then we'd get pushed out to the garden and we'd ruin the garden or ruin the lawn. We’re just constantly finding places to do what guys do with a ball and you can do anything. Then, the wider family were farming so my dad was on the farm. He sort of got kicked off by his older brother, but that was a family farm.

So we would eat out that way and that's that Douglas from Stratford on the way there with my mom in there. That's been in the family for three or four generations and that would be where we're kids. We'd help with haymaking, we'd help with carving, we'd help all sorts. That was pretty much my favourite holiday, and the same as all of us kids would be to go spend some time there and help on the farm. That was just a childhood, yeah. You just know what friends to do and always outside, didn't matter if it was raining and cold as it often is at most parts. We just put a coat on and carry on.

Lisa: Oh, man that just takes me back to my childhood, and I often think, 'Man, I want to go back.' What happened to that simple life that we had when we were kids? You're very lucky to have such wonderful parents, obviously. It's such a cool family. You also went off into university and became a lawyer, as you do, as an All Black. A slight overachiever there, Conrad. Did you always want to be a lawyer apart from wanting to be an All Black?

Conrad: As I sort of said before, I wasn't a huge overachiever on the sport front. Well, I went to Francis Douglas; it's not a huge sporting school. We had sporting teams, but that wasn’t very much. Part of it, you were there to study, you were there to get an education, and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed school. I think it is a great school, and a lot of my mates now are still from the mates I made in my school years, and yeah. So I didn't mind class and I never had a... I suppose leaving high school as it was when I was going to go to university, my brothers had both done that. That was sort of a thing to do.

Law was, yeah. It was something. I enjoyed English history. Those sort of subjects at school in Wellington wasn't too far. I sort of wanted to go down to meet my brothers down there and that was the scarfie life was. But he sort of talked me out of it just because he... I think he'd done about four years by that stage, and flying down, and getting himself back and forth was pretty tough. They sort of said, 'Well, if you have to, go closer to home.' and that was when I ended up in Wellington and I really enjoyed law and rugby.

Yeah like I say, sport was great, but it was two nights a week. It wasn't taking over my life as I know it does to a lot of kids nowadays. They make academies, and whatnot, and maybe talk about whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. But yeah, I was able to finish a full law degree and luckily, that sort of perfectly dovetailed into when I started playing professionally. Yeah, it was just sort of fortunate for me in terms of the way it all worked out and the timing. That's something I was very grateful for, obviously.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Because right now, like your career, your playing career at least is over, you've got something to do. You've got a qualification. If we dive into that subject a little bit, so a lot of the young guys now are coming through and they're sort of getting picked out early along the way. What sort of dangers do you see with that system?

Conrad: Yeah, I do worry about it, and I've spoken about it before. Because it's not just in rugby. It's in all sports. There's sort of a real obsession towards identifying talent young. Then the excuses, are you giving them the best chance of success? So we're gonna do all the work with them, and specialise them, and make them concentrate on the sport. But firstly, I don't know if that actually helps them with their sport a whole lot. I think it's fine to keep a balance, and to play other sports, and to experience, just live a normal life. I think you can still excel. But the other thing is that if it doesn't work out or even if it works out, sports are short term industry. You know, I know that that's not forever, and when you get to the back end of that, if you’re purely invested in one sport when the time runs out, you got to rebuild a lot of the... Yeah and that's a real problem.

And you don't need to look far to find a lot of evidence about that. We've been afoot and looking at American sports because they’ve been professional a lot longer than we have. Some of the statistics is just shocking. And people would think that they paid so much money, the athletes in those sports in America that they should be able to live literally after... They could do whatever they want. Theoretically, they have enough money just to retire but the statistics are not that at all. You have a crazy number of bankruptcy, crazy number of rates of depression because they haven't learned to live outside of their sport. That's sort of been taken away from them because they’re placed into their sport so young, and then just cut, and there's no real assistance around that.

So yeah, that's an extreme example and we're nowhere near at that stage here with the way the academies and that are set up. I know most of the people involved are very mindful of the things I've just talked about.

Lisa: That's pretty...just open that conversation now.

Conrad: Yeah. I just think there's a lot to be said around leading young people. I look at myself and from that period of development where maybe nowadays, I'd been in an academy, I was lead to play multiple... I played cricket, I played basketball, I ran, I did, God knows, all these things, and who's to say what lessons I learned from those other sports that I actually used in rugby? Because there's so much that you can pick up and also being able to study.

For me to have a degree, the benefits that gave me to deal with injuries, to deal with all the downsides of sport because I had a background and the education. It's really helpful. You relax a lot more. You get a perspective on the sorts of things that if you're just wrapped up in a sport and you get an injury, man that's tough. You can't do what you would like to do. Where do you turn? But I think if you've had a bit of an education, and it doesn't have to be a law degree, but if you've got some other life or other opportunities and options that you can turn to in those times, and it gives you perspective and a sense of reality, and you don't get so caught up in that, so yeah. I know it is appreciated. I just think it may be still underrated by a lot of the people that are setting up these academies and things for the young sportsmen.

Lisa: Yeah, and that's a good conversation to have and just be open about. Because you're one injury away from ending your career at any time. And then, to build... that's like building a sort of a house on a foundation of saying if you haven't got something else and you haven't got the life skills, if I just look at the opposite extreme with my sport where you have... When I started, just a bunch of weirdos doing crazy stuff, right? There's no structure, and there was no support. There was no knowledge, but it taught me that I had to go and market myself. I had to go and push everything that... Even when I represented New Zealand, I had to buy my own singlet to wear at the thing. Get a little... I'm getting here and do all of the things. So you had to market yourself, present yourself, become a speaker, do all of this sort of stuff in order to... So through that, you learn a lot of life skills anyway and then it was never a professional sport, in a sense.

I managed to live off my sport for a number of years, but that was an exceptionally... That just because I found ways to do that but it wasn't a pathway that anybody could follow. But it taught me to fight. I remember having this conversation with my brother, Dawson, who I know was one of your heroes when you were a little feller. My brother, Dawson, was a Hurricanes player and Super Rugby in Taranaki and international as well. When I came back from Australia, and I came back to New Zealand, and I was raising money to go to Death Valley, which was a big race for me, he was like, 'Why are you in the media? Where you want to be? I used to hide from the damn media.’ And I'm like, 'Yeah, but you got everything given to you, mate. You got all your clothes, all your gear, you got stuff gifted to you left, right, and centre. You've actually got no idea what another sport is.’ That structure, that framework is not there. And that's good and it's bad.

When you have everything laid on for you, but you haven’t had to fight in society for your things... Because I've talked to a lot of rugby clubs actually around the country to all the younger guys. Everything is laid out for them. They have to fight. They've got a lot of pressure as far as performance and all that sort of stuff goes, but the rest of life is sort of taken care of. So it's something to be wary of. I think you got young ones and going up through this system is to just think about, 'What is the fallback option here? What else are they going to do when their career is over?' Because it can be very short, and not everybody reaches the stardom that you did. Not everyone gets to play for the All Blacks’ 94 games or...

Conrad: We talked about the bubble. They use that term a lot within sports. So you come into this bubble. When you stay in that bubble, you lose touch with reality. You're actually... I know because I've seen it, and I'd use that same terminology and say, 'Come on and talk to the guys. I've got to get out of the bubble.’ It was always a thing of because people would... And you'd see it with people that get drawn into a sporting career and if they're doing really well. And you're right. It's only in New Zealand that it's probably only really rugby. There are other sports now that get paid really well, but they have to head overseas so... You're thrown into a lifestyle where everything is laid on and you don't actually... You forget how the real people live and the real life is, and that the bubble bursts, and it all comes about, and this is what I'm saying: The more time you spend in that bubble, when it bursts, the harder it is. The fall can really take a lot of getting used to it and some people don't.

Unfortunately, even the guys I have played with, I’ve got as many stories of guys who are struggling, still struggling as the guys who fell on their feet. I don't think anyone does straight away, even myself. People will say ‘You handled it well.’ I've been retired just over three years and I knew. Everyone seemed to me it's at least two years before you even... There’s still things you struggle with it. And that was spot on. It just takes a lot of time to understand that you're never going to get up in the morning and have that same drive. You're very lucky that when you're as a sportsman or woman to have that drive. Just do the same thing. But you got to find something else, and it will never replace that and it's not meant to, but it's a challenge for everyone. Those life experiences during that sporting career are so important so that when the bubble bursts, when you come out of it, it's just a little bit easier to find your feet. Because otherwise, that is tough, and it's a bit of a worry.

Lisa: Yeah yeah exactly. Just on even from that identity of being this athlete and you had a singular purpose. Pretty much every day when you got up, it was to train and it was to be the best for the next game or the next whatever. And that gets taken away and then the complexity of life comes in. Yeah? I retired from doing ultramarathons at 48. It's a sport where you can go a lot longer, and I've got mates that are still in their 60s and 70s doing it. But what I do see often in the ultra running community is they don't know anything else so, 'I'm going to stick with what I know and I'm just going to beat the crap out of my body until it falls into the ground.' Rather than going, 'Hang on a minute. This is no longer conducive to what I really want for me.’ And reassessing. With rugby, you're forced to because physically, at 48, you wouldn't be able to keep up with a 20-year-old.

There's that whole, have you struggled? I know I've struggled with that whole identity. Like, 'Who the hell am I if I'm not that hardass athlete and I'm not able to do what I used to do?' Because I still get it in the running scene, 'Oh, a marathon must be... you must do that before breakfast.' I'm like, 'Yeah, no. That's not...' Now, a 5K’s quite long. You know what I mean? So your horizon comes back in. So I've spent decades pushing my horizon out to be able to go longer, longer, longer, bigger. Then, life happens. In my case it was mum and that was the end of the career. It was high time; it was overdue. But that whole, you just had the rug pulled out from under you, and your identity is tied up in that performance. Have you found that a struggle?

Conrad: Yeah. Yeah, I think. Like I say, everyone does. You're lying if you say people do it easy. Again, I think a lot of the work, hopefully, athletes that handle it better have thought about that work during their career and they don't... We were given some great support while I was playing, particularly, within the All Blacks, guys like Gilbert Enoka with the background. And the whole mental side of not just the game, but of life, in terms of keeping...being grounded, keeping perspective. Part of that was your identity and not letting rugby define you. We used to say that you're a person that plays rugby, you're not a rugby player. It has this other life. You're actually... I play rugby because I like playing. Maybe that's not who I am. That's what the public sees, and I think if you get a handle on that while you're playing, then you understand that when rugby is taken away but that's not part of... ‘That's what I used to do. Now, I'm not doing it anymore but I'm still the person I've been this whole way. Now, my journey carries on.’

Like I say, that's easier said than done. There’s people that become the rugby player. That's all they are, and so that's the real challenge. For me, it was about just finding other challenges. And I think anyone in terms of rugby or any sport yourself, you find other challenges, it gives you... You realise your own identity and you find other things to do that give you fulfilment. I think aligned with that is the whole... When I think of rugby players, a lot of them who find the identity in rugby, they then just go on to coaching, and this is a real problem, and it might... I don't think that's just with the sport of rugby, but you have a lot of retired players that feel like they have to coach because they think it's all they know.

The challenge, I suppose is, then of being careful not to fall into that trap. It was easier for me. I studied. I used to be a lawyer. I'm sure I could go back and do that. Maybe not as a lawyer, but there are other skills that I have. That's a really hard message, but it's a really important message to give all sportsmen. To rugby players, I'm always telling them, 'You don't have to stay in rugby, you know. You played, you finished, you don't have to coach.' There's going to be hundreds and thousands of players finishing career and they think they have to coach. But their skills are transferable to hundreds of different professions and things that will pay them well. You can keep being yourself.

Even for me, I've stayed within rugby but it's not coaching. I'm working with the Players Association, International Players Association and that suits me. That's my skill set: a bit of the law, the analytical side of me that I've always had. And I think that was important. It's sort of my process of moving away from that identity as just 'Conrad Smith, the rugby player.' It's important to find other things that challenge me and that I enjoy.

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Lisa: That's awesome and thanks for sharing that because I think that's... Being able to openly have these conversations because there are a lot of athletes in lots of different sports struggling with this whole process of... Your career is so short, and you're not a has-been. I asked myself these conversations, and most especially in the beginning is, 'You’re nothing now. You’re a has-been now. You can’t do it.' And being embarrassed about that, instead of going, 'Hang on a minute. I'm still pretty fricking epic and I do other stuff.' Now, that's freed up a huge piece of my brain and my daily power and energy to then go and attack other massive projects.

There's so many things in the world that you can take on. It's all up to you to develop a certain passion. And I think it's not even just in the sports realm. I see people who are in careers that got friends and careers, they don't want to be there anymore but they studied it, they became it, they did it. whatever it was. Now, they're like, 'Is that it?' It doesn't have to be it, no. We live in a day and age where we can actually go and retrain. In fact, we have to be adaptable and flexible in this day and age if we want to keep up because the world is changing so fast. So many jobs are going to be gone and whole industries.

As a jeweller in a previous life, that industry got destroyed, really. If you weren't in the big game with big brands and Chinese mass production and stuff like that and you're an artisan, a person who made one-off pieces, you're struggling now unless you really got the top massive diamonds and God knows what. Everyone else is struggling, so you have to go, 'Okay, that industry’s change. I'm going to have to adapt, change, go with it, overcome it, improvise, and keep developing.' I think that's the message that we're getting here is you don't box yourself in. don't just be that one-trick pony. That's not, and Conrad is now an advocate, he's a father, he's a speaker.

Whatever you decide that you want to be, you can become. And you're not just Conrad, the All Black. I think that's a really important transition for everybody to go through. Even if you're a policeman or a teacher and you don't want to do that anymore or whatever the case is.

Conrad: Yeah, and it takes a bit of courage. Like I said before, it's easier said than done a lot of the time. And that's what people just need that encouragement. Especially with finances and people suddenly are, 'I've got a mortgage on a house. I don't want to change career because there might be a layer where I'm not earning money.' But yeah, I just think that's... You come back to some questions about who you are, who you want to be, and you've got to be... You'll be happy doing what you're doing. So I just think all the help you can get from people around you, that's where you'll draw the energy, I think. If it's a conversation you're just having in your own mind, you will never get anywhere. You just need to open up about it, speak to people close to you, and I think that's generally where the answers come from.

Lisa: Yeah. I think that's gold. On that point, how big is mental health in your work? Do you do a lot around supporting mental health, and that sort of thing, and helping people transition, and all that sort of jazz?

Conrad: Yeah, absolutely. More and more, it's a complex field. When you talk about players in the game, in the sport of rugby, it's really difficult. We were starting to appreciate the pressures I think that sportsmen and women are under in these fields. It's a lot of… it draws that back on what we were talking about before. You're in a bubble and you do lose perspective and so not as the... The challenge is to help these young, these kids that are in these bubbles to speak different, and keep living, and look at sport as this amazing opportunity, and not feel the pressure. Well, maybe saying not feeling the pressure is the wrong way to put it because it's natural, but to feel the pressure and find a way to deal with that, a healthy way to deal with it.

Again, I look back on my career and you're playing for the All Blacks, you're playing World Cups, it's easy to talk about pressure. There was never times that I didn't know how to deal with it, and that was from the sport I had, and maybe the background, and my upbringing. But it was easily... You just channel that and see and look at it differently and decide. Look at the opportunity that every time you feel pressure, you get it, it's as simple as just changing the perspective of things rather than the pressure of, ‘You have to win’. ‘I'm an All Black, I want to win because…’ Whatever. ‘I've got a country behind me,’ and suddenly, it's a burden that's lifted and yeah, you flipped it and you're puffing out your chest, and you want to do it. If it doesn't come off, it’s a game. There's more important things, absolutely, around. But yeah, like I keep saying, it's not easy for everyone and there’s people that understand that better. The challenge is getting through to people of different backgrounds, and different cultures, and different ages.

Lisa: Yeah with different problems.

Conrad: Yeah. I'm saying that because I know what works for me, but I know a 17-year-old young Samoan boy who's playing rugby, I don't know for the Highlanders, I might not be able to connect with him. The things that worked for me won't work for him. That's what I'm trying to say. Or the female swimmer who's doing, training for an Olympics. We're all different, and the challenge is finding a way for everyone to deal with that pressure and to be mentally healthy through a sports career.

Lisa: I love that approach and just coming off the back of the Olympics. It was just wonderful to watch our amazing athletes doing amazing things. Lisa Carrington just blows me away. She's mentally just insane. But I love that thing of the challenge versus threat. I think this is a really important thing to do. When you're feeling overwhelmed and overburdened and like the whole world of pressure is on me, you going out and something the World Cup, were you able, even in those extreme pressure moments, to turn that into an opportunity and not a threat? Because that does change the physiology. Like when you're running on the paddock on those days, those couple of times in your life where it's just been horrifically big pressure, how did you physically and mentally cope there?

Conrad: Yeah, I think we've spent a lot of time, and everyone did, preparing for that World Cup. Again, as All Blacks, you have to spend a lot of time because you know the pressure that comes with and the expectation that comes with being an All Black in New Zealand. But even more so a World Cup, a home World Cup, when we hadn't won, I think 2011. A lot of our preparation time wasn't just being on the field with how we're going to play but was how to deal with that pressure. For me, it was just constantly turning it around so that it was never a moment I even... I can look back and think of times in the game where the team was under pressure and it would be perceived as... Even in that final hour, the team struggled a bit with the pressure, but if I'm being honest, our preparation never let us feel that way. We were dealing with that all the time.

We just were focused on doing our job. We talked so much about whatever comes our way, we were going to adapt and deal with it and that's what you just had to keep doing. You never sort of stop, and you'll notice yourself, you just don't let yourself stop and think about that. I think if you've got to that stage, it's too late. If you're having to go through a process of. 'How do I deal with this?’ It's probably too late. You've already, hopefully, got a process in place where you're just, it's just instinctively, you're just channelling that, focusing on little details. Because you know whatever the pressure, that's not going to influence you unless you need it. You just focus on the small tasks and you get through 80 minutes of rugby like that, keep a smile on your face.

Lisa: Pull your focus into the job at hand instead of the: 'Oh my god. Everyone's watching me. Everyone's pressuring. Hang on a minute I've just got to pass this ball right now.' You're breaking it down into little tiny...

Conrad: We all have little trigger words and I know we've talked about this: ‘Be in the now.’ Be in the now, which is like just what you're talking about. It's not thinking about the mistake you might have just made, the ball you drop, the tackle you missed, and it's not worrying, and you're not thinking about the World Cup, you're going to win at the end of this game. Because you can't do anything. Right now. ‘Right now. Right now, I'm going to catch this next ball.’ Look up, keep looking, keep calling, whatever it is. It's as simple as a little thing like that that just keeps you in tune with the moment and not letting you get overwhelmed by the bigger picture. Yeah, massively important, obviously. The bigger the moments and the bigger the pressure, it's the funny thing, it's the more important that you focus on the smaller, minute detail.

Lisa: I love it. I said try to forget the consequences of what you're doing. You've done the preparation. You've done the work. You've done everything that you possibly can. You’re standing on the start line, in my case, a race, then letting go of the outcome because you've done what you can do. And now, it's up to the whatever happens in the next few hours or days, in my case. So this was no longer just in your hands then. Because the gods have a thing to say about it as well. Sometimes, if you try and control the uncontrollable, then you'll drive yourself to madness, whereas if you can go, 'I've done the stuff that I was responsible for. I've put the work and I've done the preparation. I know my strategies. I know my pacing. I know whatever it is I'm doing. I got that right. Okay. I'm going to keep my eye on the ball here. But I'm going to let go of the outcome now.' Because when you let go of the outcome, then that pressure goes and you're in that...

Being in that now is a really powerful message to people. Because when you're in the past or the future, you're either worrying about the future, or you're regretting what's happened in the past, or it's a load for you to carry. In the moment, when you're under pressure, all you can cope with is that second right now. The next minute. That's it. When I was running long distances, I would break it down into: 'What's the next power pole? I just got to get to the next power pole. If I can't even get that far, I'm just gonna take one more step.' You can always take one more step, right? If you break it down into one more step, just one more, and then you just keep going and keep going. Then, invariably, that mindset or that thing that's in your head passes, and then you're back in the game.

Conrad: That's funny, you sound... because someone I remember that came and spoke to the team when we were outside joined the team in 2004, and we had Amish Carter came and spoke with the team. It was before the 2007 World Cup and obviously, that World Cup didn't end well, but some of what he said, I still remember it. He was talking about his Olympic performances, and he said, and I think one of the questions from the players was about we're talking: the nerves and the pressure. And I remember him saying that he wasn't nervous. He wasn't nervous when he got to the start line just for the reasons you said. He said: ‘Because then, I'd backed on my prep, I'd done everything I needed to do. Now, it was just a matter of going out and doing that. You can't do anymore.’

It's funny that when I looked, especially towards into my career, the only times I would feel nervous normally, on the start of a week. So if we play the game on a Saturday, and that was because I'm nervous thinking of all the things I've got to do on the Monday, Tuesday. But by the Friday, I would have this real sense of calm. I'd have a smile and I'll be like, 'Right now, it's time to do it.' It's funny because people, it's the opposite. They're not thinking about a game on Monday, Tuesday, but they were getting nervous on before a game starts thinking, 'You must be even worse.' But yeah, that was the way I could explain it is that we're really... I was nervous thinking about the game but now, I've done all that. This is the path I've taken. This is the training I've done for this game. Now, I'm ready to... I'm going to go and do it and see if it works.

Lisa: Yeah, this is the reward phase. This is actually what you've been preparing for all along, so this is the time when you actually should be enjoying it. It wasn't always that easy especially when you're doing a couple hundred K's somewhere because sometimes it’s not that pleasant. But you've done the work to get to the start line and the times where I am being nervous is when I hadn't done the work.

Conrad: Exactly. I think of some... I don't like admitting it but normally, with All Blacks, you always have checked every box but there were games, I’d go back even the Hurricanes or Club Games and that's the ones where I'd be nervous because I'd be thinking... ‘I haven't really... now this week. I probably haven't done…’ Then, you get nervous but actually the bigger the occasion, the preparation is normally good.

Lisa: You took it seriously and yeah, yeah. I've come stuck on some short races where I've had my ass handed to me because I went in with the... That's just the short race, and oh my god. Had my ass handed to me. So yeah, always respect every distance or every game. I think it's key. What's it actually like, Conrad, to be... The first time that you put on that All Blacks jersey? Because it's every little boy and now, little girl's dream too. What's it actually like to put on that sort of thing for the first time? Can you remember?

Conrad: Yeah for sure. It's pretty special. I do think I was really lucky the way it panned out for me in terms of... It happened really quickly. I'd play. I hadn't even played the Super Rugby game. I hadn't played for the Hurricanes. When it started, I had a really... I was playing for the Wellington Lions. We made the final, and then I was picked, fortunately. So the coaching staff that had come in wanted to pick some new younger players and I was one of those. That was very much sort of out of the blue. Then, I was starting the following week. So I played a final. The team was picked. We assembled the end of that following week. We flew to Italy, and then I was playing.

But that was great in hindsight because it didn't let me overthink that. It was sort of okay, and I just was like, 'Right.' Little bit like what I said before, 'I'm just going to enjoy it.' Admittedly there were people around me. Graham Henry, Ryan Smith, Steve Hansen, great coaches, and Gilbert Enoka that were giving me those messages. Just telling me, 'We're picking you in the first game. Just go and enjoy it. Just keep doing what you're doing. We love what you're doing.' So those messages for a young guy were perfect. I didn’t actually question that. Yeah, I just took the jersey. I was still sort of pinching myself how quickly it happened. But yeah, then there I was playing and yeah, it was an amazing experience.

I'm glad to say it never really diminished. I was lucky to play for over a decade, and it was always special putting on the jersey. The team does a great job, I think, of respecting the jersey, acknowledging how important it is to their country, what we mean to everyone, and staying grounded, and all that good stuff about acknowledging the connection that you have with the young men and women who are dreaming to being All Black, wishing they were there, would give anything to be in your place. So you're always aware of that, and so it never loses its glow. Then I put my jersey on.

Brian Hoyer who was a big part of the team when I joined the team, he said ‘When you put the jersey on, you shouldn't be able to fit outside the doorway.’ You grow that big. I'm not using the words and I always... For me, I was normally marking someone bigger than me or normally not the biggest in the room but I always felt that. That I have to turn sideways to get out the door but that was the sort of feeling and you hear that even today: The way you sort of, you grow in the jersey.

Lisa: You're carrying the manner and the tradition of that, and the reputation of that, and the hopes of a nation, basically, on your shoulders, which can be either a load or it can be like, 'Wow, how lucky am I that I get to stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before?' Basically and like you said, 'Yeah, I can't fit through the door because I'm just filled with all that.'

Okay, just a very quick anecdote. I was running through in the Gobi Desert at one point and we were running through these slot canyons. These really crazy. It was hot. One guy died out there that day which was really terrible. I was running through there and I was chasing down this American woman who was in front of me and I was second. I'm like, 'I've got to plan something here if I want to beat this person in front of me that I was chasing down through these canyons.'

So I started singing the Maori Battalion song to myself and I started to... like my ancestors, and my tradition there, my heritage like, 'I'm going to bloody beat you, American. Yeah. I'm gonna chase you down, and I'm singing away to myself running along through this canyon.' I beat her, right. It was awesome. I just went dashing past her, and I beat her. But it was just like, 'Wow.' It's just like you're pulling out stuff that you... It's not just you. You're like your ancestors and your heritage, and they're powering you. So I imagine it's a bit the same with the All Blacks jersey.

Conrad: Yeah. It's powerful stuff. Like, and it's all about creating something bigger than you. There's no doubt the history of things or like you say, in individual sports. As soon as you can create that connection to a greater cause. Actually, in the All Blacks, it's actually easy. I say this when I talk to other sports teams around how they create the identity. But the All Blacks had it handed to them because they have 130 years of whatever it is of this amazing performance, of this history, this black jersey that this country that's mad obsessed with them, great air of success and also, this idea that we do unite. We're the flagship of New Zealand. Rightly or wrongly, that's the way we're saying and you got to embrace that.

The fact that every time an All Black teams practice, it's a culture we have in New Zealand. This great collection of men who are representing the country. You capture that in the right way, and it counts as something. The field is 00 but I always felt... Yeah, when we got it right, we're straight away. That's worth some points at least on the board. It's something special that the All Blacks do have, and to the credit of the team, the whole time, I was involved. I know that it's carrying on that the way they connect and acknowledge that, it's really well done. It's the reason that the team continues to perform well.

Lisa: And it does it empower whole generations. Like I said to my brother Dawson, my dad wanted him to be an All Black, and he wanted him to meet all those milestones along the way. I remember like... We lost my dad last year, as people know, if they listened to my podcast. I said to my brother the other day, 'Dawson,' because he went to the game up at the park, at Pukekura Park and they had the 25-year anniversary for the Ranfurly Shield because he was on the Ranfurly Shield team. He was excited to go to the Ranfurly Shield thing, and I remember that being the proudest moment of my dad's life. Of all the things that my dad got to do and see, all of their kids, I said to Dawson, 'You gave him the highest point in his life was when you came home with that Ranfurly Shield, and you're a part of that Taranaki Team. That was, for him, the pinnacle.'

That's beautiful because that is just like... Especially when you've lost somebody... And Dawson’s like, to be able to go and celebrate that Ranfurly Shield with his old mates and reminisce on those times. That stays with you to the end: those special moments that you get, and that camaraderie that comes with it, and all of that sort of stuff. He gave my dad a precious gift really by being a part of that team. Dad was just so proud.

Dawson said to me once, 'Lisa, you could run across every fricking desert in the world and it would still not mean as much as that Ranfurly Shield.' And I said, 'You're damn right, and that's okay.' Because he was right in that. It's okay because he loved rugby, and he loved rugby teams, and the rugby world. My dad played, what do you call that? Fifth-grade rugby until he was 45 and he only quit because people were telling him he was too old, and then he played touch for another 10 years. He was a legend. A legend.

You're carrying all that on your shoulders. There are five and six-year-old kids looking at you on screen like you did with Daws back then. Like, 'Oh, these big Taranaki players and stuff.' That’s just beautiful. I had that just wanting to represent New Zealand in something because I couldn't be in All Blacks because back then, we didn't have women playing rugby, much to my dad's disappointment. Actually watching the girls at the sevens in the Olympics, oh, I just fell in love with that team. They were just epic. Ruby Tui is my new bloody hero. She's just amazing. I think she's just epic. But just to watch the camaraderie of those girls and the performance that they put on, I'm glad that women now have the chance to do that tough stuff too. Because that's pretty special as well: seeing girls going there and giving it everything, just going hard.

Conrad: You speak to the Black Ferns, the women's rugby, it's growing so much not just in New Zealand, but around the world and that's pretty exciting, especially for Fifteens and the opportunity it's giving so many young women. Yeah and so for myself, that's really refreshing now with international rugby and the Player Association and we deal with both men and women's. The joy I hear working in women's rugby, seriously, compared to men's, especially men's Fifteens, it's a lot of established... Careful with my words, but it's just so hard. To put it simply, it's so hard to get things done even if you agree there's so much.

Whereas in the women's game, it's so refreshing. There's just an openness and the enthusiasm. They just, 'Yep. Let's get that done and this.' You will see, women’s rugby going to go great in the next few years, and it's because of... In the men's game, I don't like to say it, but it might not have anywhere near the same growth or evolution just because it's...

Lisa: Stayed in the old ways. It obviously breaks everything, isn't it?

Conrad: The money, the money at that level is so big that there's so much at stake. That's just what grinds along, whereas the women's game, they're not... Obviously, they’re trying to commercialise on the game, but it's crumbs compared to the men's for things at the moment. But they'll catch up at a huge rate because they're just open about... Like at the moment, they're motivated by having fun, being patient, at getting the product out, getting more and more women and girls playing the game.

Lisa: That's amazing and isn't that though that's a really good analogy for everything in the world? Like that the big old institutions or big bureaucracies are going to be struggling in the future, I think. Completely off-topic but from the governments, to the big corporations, to the big institutions are going to be struggling against these young, nimble, small, exponentially powered technology-based companies and the rate of change that's coming that these big state, old bureaucratic, not just talking about rugby here, but governments and things are actually going to be on the backfoot shortly.

I always think of that Kodak, the company Kodak that used to be the biggest player in the world and photography, right? They didn't go with digital evolution, then they went under. Because they were too busy trying to protect what they already had, they actually discovered digital photography. They started it, but they didn't pursue it because they thought, 'Oh, that's going to be a threat to our current existing business.' That mindset is when you get overtaken by the young upstarts that come along with enthusiasm and they can, on a company-wide level, they're smaller. They're nimble. They can make decisions quicker. They can move faster. I see this in all areas happening. Hopefully, in the right way it'll brush off as well, but the girls certainly are next level.

Conrad: They're great. And I’ve got to know a few of them, a few of the Black Ferns.

Lisa: Can you help me out with Ruby? I want to get in with Ruby.

Conrad: That is such great Kiwi so yeah, more than happy. She'd love to chat.

Lisa: Woohoo. Okay. I know she's pretty busy right now. Everybody in the world wants to see her right now. And the other girls, they're just amazing. Conrad, as we wrap it up now in a minute because I know you got to go, but what is it that you want to get across? So if we highlighted a couple of points now, if you were talking to your children, you've got two kids, what do you want them to do in the future? Or what would you, if you were talking to some young kids out there that want to have a life in the sporting world? What’s some last parting wisdom or for the parents of those kids?

Conrad: Yeah, I think if you're speaking to parents, the first thing is the value of sport, I think. I just worry a little bit. I know I'm working in rugby, and there's some crazy things being said about the potential harms of playing a contact sport. But honestly, I've had the benefit of seeing, digging a lot deeper into that and that is not at all as clear as it's conveyed because of the sensationalism of journalism. Kids are kids. They love playing. If I leave my boy and his next-door neighbour, they're gonna wrestle; they're gonna fight. There's no harm in playing.

But on the flip side, the harm of not playing sport, of sheltering them, of thinking, of sitting in a lounge with a Coke and a bag of lolly is better for a kid than going and playing rugby because he might knock his head. That's so far from the truth. That would be my wish for parents' young kids. Just play sport but... And then, I suppose, if it's to reflect on what we've talked about, when the kid means getting serious about a sport, it would be to keep you balanced, to not lose sight. If you’re put in a bubble because it's a performance bubble, then that's all well and good but now, it's a bubble and you need to step out of that every chance you get and connect with the real world as much as you can.

Unfortunately, there are dangers and there are risks when you are totally invested into a sport. The crazy thing is sport is a great thing. It should be enjoyed and if you're even not enjoying it, it's not hard just to talk to someone and step outside your sport to reconnect with the people in the real world. Then, that should give you back your love of the game, and then you'll go well and be like Lisa and I and have a life where you've had a sport that you've loved, and it's given you amazing opportunities, and literally meet great people, and you still come out of it, and you're still happy, and still meet people but doing different things.

Lisa: This is gold. Conrad, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to doing our speaking gig together shortly and that's going to be exciting. I'm just really glad to have made your acquaintance and I think that you have such a level approach, level-headed approach to this whole thing and gave us some great insights today on what it is to be an All Black, but also what it is to come out the other side and gave us some really good perspective. So thanks for your time today, Conrad.

Conrad: Pleasure, Lisa.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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When was the last time you got up and ran? Simply jogging around the neighbourhood during the weekends to keep fit may be daunting for some. Now, imagine the sheer amount of dedication, endurance, and resilience ultramarathoning requires. This type of long-distance running is an activity that tests the limits of human endurance. You might think running a thousand miles is impossible, but today’s guest continues to prove others wrong. He’s on a mission to exceed his limits and inspire others to do the same.

Dean Karnazes joins us in this episode to get up close and personal about his experiences in ultramarathoning. He candidly shares the highs and lows, the triumphs and defeats. We also find out the importance of failure and finding magic in misery.

If you’re interested in discovering how you can build your character, embrace pain and failure, and get inspired to push your limits, then this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how to cope with the ups and downs of ultramarathoning. 2. Learn about the importance of pain and failure. 3. Get inspired by Dean’s valuable takeaways from his career.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching. You can also join our free live webinar on runners' warm-up to learn how a structured and specific warm-up can make a massive difference in how you run.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books, Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * A new program, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Listen to my other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #8: Dean Karnazes - The Road to Sparta + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Connect with Dean: Website * Books by Dean Karnazes: * + Ultramarathon Man: Confessions of an All-Night Runner + A Runner’s High: My Life in Motion + Dean’s other books

Episode Highlights [05:21] Dean’s Lockdown Experience in Australia * Dean was supposed to go on a 1000-mile run across New South Wales. * After boarding a jet to Australia, he found that the pandemic situation was getting worse. * And so, Dean and Pat Farmer will be doing their run in a military base instead. * Although he’s quarantined inside a hotel room, Dean always stays moving and does bodyweight exercises to remain active. * It was challenging to go from California, where 80% have been vaccinated, to Australia, which is still in lockdown.

[11:18] Chronological and Biological Age * Chronologically, Dean is closer to 60 than 50 years old. * There are various ways to test your biological age, like C-reactive proteins and inflammation. * Tune in to the full episode to learn more about what else goes into calculating your biological age.

[14:17] Dean’s Greek Heritage * Dean's mother is from Ikaria, a Blue Zones with the highest concentration of centenarians worldwide. * People in Ikaria live long, healthy lives. * They don’t pay attention to time and live in a strong community. Therefore, they are not prone to stress. * Dean doesn’t have any back, muscle, or joint pain.

[18:50] Know What Your Body is Built For * People are built to run at different speeds and distances. Various factors affect what you're optimised to do. * What’s important is knowing the things that are optimal for your health. * Dean has run over 300 traditional marathons in his career. He has also seen people well past their 70s who are still physically able and active.

[22:04] What is A Runner’s High About? * A Runner’s High is about the changes that he, the world, and ultramarathoning has undergone. * Ultramarathoning impacts the people closest to you. * Dean wanted to write a true and honest story about his reflections over the past three decades.

[24:00] Running the Western States Endurance Run * This 100-mile trail race starts in Sierra Nevada, California. * Dean first did this race in 1994. To him, this was an unforgettable experience. * Going back after 13 times, Dean found that watching his dad and son crew for him and seeing how things changed over time was transformative for him. * Dean recounts his experiences in detail in A Runner’s High.

[25:54] The Surprises of Parenting * Kids grow faster than parents can adjust to them growing up. * Dean describes his son Nick as dichotomous, recounting how he would complain about his roommates being slobs while his own room is a mess. * Nick volunteered to crew for him. * Dean thought Nick would be irresponsible. Nick surprised Dean; he was much more responsible than Dean’s dad. * It’s a parent's burden to accept that their child is now a self-sufficient, capable adult.

[29:58] Did Dean’s Career and Fame Affect His Family? * Ultramarathoning has always been a family affair for Dean. * He would take his family to where his marathons are. Dean’s kids had the opportunity to travel to different places from a young age. * Fans that come up to him asking for autographs and selfies are decent people.

[34:44] Dealing with Pain and Failure * When you're in pain, it's difficult to interact with others. Dean admits that it can be tough when his fans come up to chat with him during this time. * He commits to setting aside his ego and always gives 100% in everything he does, including ultramarathoning and interacting with fans.

[40:44] The Value of Failing * Success builds character, but failure more profoundly so. * The emotional range that comes with failure makes one a better human. * Don’t shy away from hitting rock bottom because you’ll be missing out on a profound character-building opportunity. * In the end, it’s a matter of perspective. Most people will applaud the distance that you run, whether you come in first or not.

[44:49] Ultramarathoning is Achieving the Impossible * Dean initially thought there was trickery involved in ultramarathoning. * The moments that stuck to Dean in his career weren’t victories or crossing finish lines. * What stuck to him were the moments when he was on the verge of giving up but persisted through difficulty.

[48:04] The Importance of Character * Ultramarathoning teaches you to be resilient through the tough times. * Running doesn’t hurt when you’re doing it right. * Some people try to avoid difficult things and pain, while others embrace them. We've built our world around comfort, but somehow we're still miserable. * However, the more struggle you experience, the more strength you build.

[53:21] Dean’s Biggest Takeaways From Ultramarathoning * To Dean, it’s the little moments that are the most priceless. * Ultramarathoning is a journey, a passion, and a commitment. * Staying true to yourself is valuable, simple, and magical.

[56:11] Forming Connections Through Books * Writing is laborious, but the motivation it brings to people makes it worthwhile. * Dean dictates the things he wants to write on his phone while running. * Running clears Dean’s thoughts. To him, motion stirs emotion. * A singularity of purpose is achieved when focusing on a specific goal or mission.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Some people are built to run far and slow, and other people are built to run quick and short.’

‘In school, you get the lesson and you take the test. In parenting, you take the test, and then you get the lesson.’

‘What can you do other than just do your best? You're human. All of us can only just do our best.’

‘When I stand on the starting line, I'm going to give it my all. I'm not going to leave anything on this course. I'm just going to be the best that Dean can be. I'm going to try my hardest and the only way I'm going to fail is if I don't try my hardest and don't give it my all.’

‘I think bold failures build character. I have to be honest. Success builds character, but so does failure and in a more profound way.’

‘We've built our world around comfort: having every comfort available and removing as much discomfort and pain as we can. And I think, in a way, we're so comfortable, we're miserable.’

‘I'm just a runner, but that's who I am and I'm staying true to that. I'm going to do that to the grave. And I think in that, there's a simplicity and I think there's some magic in that.’

About Dean Dean Karnazes is a renowned ultramarathon runner. Among his many accomplishments, he has run 50 marathons in 50 days on 50 consecutive days, gone across the Sahara Desert in 120-degree temperatures, and ran 350 miles without sleep. He has also raced and competed in all seven continents twice.

Dean has carried the Olympic Torch twice. He appeared on the covers of Runner's World, Outside, and Wired, and has been featured in TIME, People, GQ, and Forbes. He was named one of the "Top 100 Most Influential People in the World". Men's Fitness has also labelled him as one of the fittest men in the world. To top it off, Dean is also a New York Times bestselling author and a much sought-after speaker and panellist in running and athletic events worldwide.

If you want to learn more about Dean, his incredible adventures and his achievements, you may visit his website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can find inspiration from Dean's stories on ultramarathoning and the lessons he learned along the way.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You can also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Trasncript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Good day, everyone. Welcome back to Pushing the Limits, your host Lisa Tamati here. Today, I have one of my longtime friends and a guy who has had a massive influence in my life both as a role model and as someone who has facilitated me with a lot of help with my books and so on. He's a worldwide legend. He is Dean Karnazes. He is the author of four books. And he has a new one out called the Runner's High, which I was excited to give me an excuse to chat to my buddy, and see what he's been up to, and to talk everything, ultramarathon running. We talk a whole lot about getting older in ultramarathon running, and the difficulties, and we talk about life in general and longevity, and the beauty of the sport. He's an incredible ambassador for our sport. He's done so much. He's brought so many people into the sport worldwide and he's an incredible human being.

He's actually stuck in lockdown in Australia right at the moment as we were recording this and was about to do a race ride around Australia with my other friend, Pat Farmer. Another incredible human being. These guys are just next level crazy, and bloody COVID has ripped everything so they're now down to doing thousand-mile race around a military base in Australia in New South Wales. But in true ultramarathon form, where there's a will, there's a way. And when there's an obstacle, you find a way around it. Improvise, adapt, and overcome as my friend Craig Harper always says. So that's what these guys have been doing. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Dean Karnazes. Without him, I wouldn't have my books. He is a very generous and caring person as well as being an incredible athlete.

Before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we have our BOOSTCAMP live webinar series coming up starting on the first of September 2021. If you're listening to this later on, we will be doing these on an ongoing basis. And actually, we have planned to set up a mastermind that goes the year long. I don't know how long it's gonna take us to get organised but that is our goal. We're all about helping each other upgrade our lives and be the best versions of ourselves that we can be. This one's called BOOSTCAMP. This eight-week-long webinar series that Neil and I are doing. This is a live series where you hang out with us once a week for an hour and get a lot of great information: the latest science, the latest biohacking, the latest longevity, everything about mental toughness, resilience, everything that's going to basically upgrade your life and help you be a better human. The stuff that we've spent years and decades actually studying, learning, and doing. So I hope you get to enjoy this with us.

You can head on over to peakwellness.co.nzboostcamp. That's B-O-O-S-T camp. BOOSTCAMP, not boot camp. We won't be making you run around doing anything. We're just going to be having wonderful chats and education. A lot of lectures and a lot of fun to be had along the way. And, I think, what's most important is you'll be networking with like-minded individuals. They say that you are the sum total of the five people that you hang out with most. And make those five people, in this case, it will be a few more, some top-quality people who are all on a mission the same as you are. So if you want to come and join us, that's BOOSTCAMP.

We also have our epigenetics program. If you want to know all about your genetics, and how to upgrade your life through your genes, understanding what your genes do, if you're dealing with a difficult health journey, and you don't know where to go to next, this is a very good place to start. This is our flagship program that we've been running for years now. We've taken hundreds and hundreds of people through this program. And it's really an incredible all-encompassing program that looks at your food, your exercise types, what time of the day to do different things, your mood and behaviour, and lots, lots more. So come and check that out at lisatamati.com and hit the ‘Work with Us’ button then you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program there if you're interested in doing that. Right. Now, over to the show with Dean Karnazes who's sitting in lockdown in Australia.

Well. Hi, everyone and welcome to the show. Today, I have my very good friend and absolute legend of ultramarathoning, Dean Karnazes, with me. Dean, welcome to the show, again. Repeat offender.

Dean Karnazes: Oh, it's so nice to be back on with you. Thank you for having me. We always have such lively conversations. I love it.

Lisa: We do, right? I just absolutely enjoy your company. Whenever I've had the chance to spend a little bit of time with you, it's been absolute gold whether it's been on the podcast, or interviewing you, or hanging out with you on the Gold Coast like we did last year. That was absolutely awesome. Dean, you've just brought out another book. Another amazing book called Runner's High, and that's why we had to get you back on, because I want to share about all this book. But before we get into the book, you're sitting in lockdown in Australia. Tell me what is going on there.

Dean: It's a long story but it started with a run across Australia with Pat Farmer. So from Western Australia to the East Coast, and that was the original idea; it was 5,000 kilometres. And this was six months ago when the world was going in a better direction, and over the past six months, boy, the world has done just the opposite. And we, like you, are a fighter and we kept saying we're going to persevere the same... Well, the run across Australia got mixed to a run across New South Wales, a thousand-mile run across New South Wales.

And we kept thinking, 'This is going to happen. This is going to happen.' I boarded the plane, I flew to Australia with 10 people on the huge jet, yeah. And when I get to Australia, I realise how bad the situation is here. And every day, I turn on the news. It's getting worse, it's getting worse as I'm in quarantine, and then finally Pat called me a couple days ago and said, 'We can't do the thousand-mile run now. We could still the thousand-mile run. It's just going to be contained within a military base because we need to stay in our own bubble.’ And I thought 'Oh.'

Lisa: He has flown away from America to Australia to run around the military base. It sounds a bit like being tactic stuff.

Dean: Oh, yeah. And not only the... To sit in quarantine. To your point, I've been in our hotel room for 12 days now, waiting to get out, yeah.

Lisa: For someone like you... You're just like me. Obviously, you're even more extreme than me. It must be torture. I just can't comprehend being in a room. This must be awful for you.

Dean: Don’t remind me, but yeah. Basically, from the moment I get up, I'm staying active. We both know the importance of movement. So from the moment my head leaves the pillow, I'm not sitting down ever. Even right now, I'm pacing back and forth in this room, and I'm doing bodyweight exercises just constantly, at least throughout the day.

Lisa: I used to... If I was travelling and I was stuck in a hotel room somewhere in a dangerous city or whatever, I'd put on something running on TV and run along with them. I was doing the Boston Marathon in Budapest in a hotel room one day. Just run along the spot. Doesn't matter. You got to do something to keep active, so I can imagine it being a bit of a mission for you. So my heart goes out to you and hang in there for two more days.

And all my love, please, to Pat Farmer. I love the guy. He's just amazing. We got to hang out when we're in the Big Red Run together, which I failed spectacularly, by the way. I had a back injury that walked me out in the middle of that race. But one of the big advantages of that run was actually getting to meet Pat Farmer because he's an absolute legend of the sport. So you two together would be a really powerful combination. I'm really sad that he’s not going to go right around Australia because imagine the people that would have come out and enjoyed meeting you two.

Dean: Oh, he pulled all the strings. He's very well connected in political circles and the Australian Army is crazy for us. So we had 13 Army personnel and they're setting up a tent city every night, and they're cooking for us. It was amazing but COVID had other plans.

Lisa: Oh, bloody COVID. It’s wrecking every damn thing. Hey, but it's ultramarathon runner and Pat Farmer who has run from the North Pole to the South Pole, people. Absolute crazy guy. Obstacle? Find a way around it. Obstacle? Find a way around. And that's what you guys are doing, and you have to be flexible. That's a good lesson for this day and age because we're all having to be very, very flexible right now, and adapt to a hell of a lot of change, and being able to cope in different situations. So I bet you guys would just find a way through it and it will be another incredible story at the end of the day.

Dean: I think the world needs it. As controversial as the Olympics were, I think it was an amazing thing, and it's so scaled back, right? But still, people are stuck in their house and now, what are they doing? They're watching the Olympics. They're getting energised, and they're thinking about the future so yeah, thank you. It's been a very emotional journey for me to leave a place... Where I live in California, we're over 80% vaccinated. So to leave a place where there was no masks then come here, it's been eye-opening and challenging.

Lisa: You should have Pat go to you and run around California. You got it backwards. I have no doubt that you guys will just find a way through, and you’ll make it epic, anyway. Say you get given lemons, you make lemonade.

Dean: Yeah well, at least we're staying in military barracks, and we're basically running. Every day, we're staying in the same place so logistically, it'll be easier.

Lisa: Yeah. Oh my god, you guys just don't stop. I admire you guys so much, and I was saying to you last year, when we're in the Gold Coast, 'I've hit the wall at about 48 but to be honest, I had a pretty hit on, full-on war with my body and....' But you guys just seem to keep going, and going, and going. I had Mum as well so I did have an excuse, guys. But pretty highly, it was a stressful last five years. But you just seem to... Because how old are you now, Dean, if you don't mind sharing?

Dean: Yeah. Well, when anyone would ask my age, I would say, 'Are you talking about my chronological age or my biological age?’

Lisa: Well, your chronological because biological, you're probably 20 years younger. Because I definitely am. That's my take on it.

Dean: Chronologically I'm closer to 60 than 50.

Lisa: Exactly. Have you actually ever had your biological age done? Because that's an interesting thing.

Dean: Yeah, I had a couple. There's a lot of good ways you can test it, and I've had it done a couple different times. One, I was about I was in my late 30s. And then on another, I was older than my actual chronological age.

Lisa: Which one was that?

Dean: It was post ultramarathon. So after racing, we spoke about C-reactive protein earlier and inflammation. And that was one of the biomarkers that they used in calculating your biological age. So when I looked at the results, I said, 'Hold it. How did you arrive at that figure?' And they gave me all the markers they looked at, and I said, 'Well, look. This is wildly elevated because just four days ago, I just ran a hundred miles.'

Lisa: Exactly. And C-reactive protein, if you've just had a cold, if you've just hit like we were talking about my dad before and sepsis and his C-reactive protein was just through the roof. So that makes sense that they would be out. There's a whole clock, which is the methylation markers, which is a very good one. I've done just one very basic one that came out at 34. I was pretty pleased with that one. At the end of the day, I think if you can keep all your inflammatory markers like your homocysteine and C-reactive protein generally under control, keep your albumin levels high, they are pretty good markers. Albumin is one that is looking at, it’s a protein that your liver makes, and that's a very important one. And if you albumin starts to go too low, that's one sign that things aren't going to good. So keep an eye on all those.

I love studying all this longevity stuff because I plan to live to 150 at least, and I don't think that that's unrealistic now as long as I don't get run over by a bus or something. With the stuff that's coming online and the technology that's coming, we're going to be able to turn back the clock on some pretty advanced stuff already. Now, my mum's on more than me because obviously, her needs are a bit greater than mine. I can't afford for us to be on all the top stuff. But yeah, I'm very excited. We don't need to age like our grandparents have aged. We're gonna have... And someone like you, Dean, who's lived a good healthy life, apart from pushing the hell out of your body, and I'll talk about that in a sec, but I think you've got the potential to live to 150, especially because you're Greek. You come from stock.

Dean: And my mom is from one of the Blue Zones. An island called Ikaria and I've been there and I've met... Ikaria, the island she's from, has the highest concentration of centenarians anywhere on Earth.

Lisa: Oh my gosh. So you're going to live to 200 then.

Dean: Well, the beautiful thing about these people is that not only are they over 100, they still have a high quality of life. They're still mobile; they're self-sufficient. Mentally and cognitively, they're sharp as a tack. They're active. The one thing that they have that we don't have the luxury of is the complete absence of stress. They don't pay attention to time.

Lisa: That's, I think, a crucial point. Stress is a killer in so, so many ways.

Dean: Even the fact that we have mortgages, and we have payments, rent, all those sort of things, I think, contribute to obviously, to stress. And fitting in with new society. It's much more of a sense of community in these villages where everyone is part of it. They all take care of each other, so it's a different lifestyle.

Lisa: I think, definitely when you're actually living the old way of being out in the sunshine, from the time you get up to the end of the day, you're working outside and on the ground, in the land, hands in the dirt, all of that sort of stuff really... Because I studied lots about circadian rhythms and how our eyes, for example, you see sunshine early in the morning. That resets your circadian rhythms, sets the clock going for the day. Your adenosine starts to build up over the day. You get tired at about 14 to 16 hours later. All of these things that we've... as modern-day humans, we've taken ourselves out of the old way of living and put ourselves into this artificial comfortable environment. But this is upsetting all our ancient DNA, and that's why that's leading to problems.

And then, of course, we've got this crazy life with technology, and the stuff we have to do, and work. Just like stress, what it does to the gut, the actual microbiota in the gut, and how much it affects your gut health. And of course, gut health affects everything. Your brain and your gut talk all the time. All these stuff so I think if we can harness the cool stuff of the technology coming, plus go back and start respecting as much as possible our ancient DNA, and then eating our ancestors did as best we can with these depleted soils, and pesticides, and glyphosates, and God knows what's in the environment, but doing the best we can, then we've got a good chance of actually staying around on this planet and still be running ultramarathons or at least marathons when you're a hundred plus. I don't think that that's unrealistic anymore, and that excites me. So I'm always learning on that front.

Dean: But I want to be that guy that's running a marathon when you say a hundred. That's my ambition now.

Lisa: I'll keep you up on the latest stuff then. What you need to be aware of.

Dean: I don't have any... People say, ‘You must have arthritis, or back pain, or knee pain, or joint pain.’ I don't have any of those things. I don't know why but I just... I'm so happy. I get up every morning and feel fresh.

Lisa: That's absolutely amazing. I think one of the amazing things with you is that... Because I studied genetics, and I looked at my genes. And actually doing really long bouts of exercise with my combination of genetics and my cardiovascular system, especially I've got a very weak glycocalyx, which is the lining of your endothelial cells. Bear with me people. This means that if I do a lot of oxidative damage, which you do, of course, when you're running, that's pretty damaging to my lining of my blood vessel. So I've got to be a little more careful and take a lot of antioxidant support. But having that inflammation means I can now take steps to mitigate that so that I can still do what I love to do. And that's really key. It's hitting stuff off at the pass and there's so much we can do now and that's really, really exciting. But I've gone completely off topic because we should be talking about your book.

Dean: No, I think it's very relevant because I think that some people are built to run far and slow and other people are built to run quick and short.

Lisa: Yeah. I do and I agree and it's not just about your fast-twitch fibres. It is also about your methylation and your detox pathways, your hormonal pathways, your cardiovascular genes. All of these things do play a role, and that's why there's no one size fits all. And that's why we don't all have to be Dean Karnazes or Pat Farmer. You know what I mean? Not everybody is built for that or should be doing that, and that's okay as well. And working out what is optimal for your health is the key thing. Having role models like you guys is just mind-blowing because it does lift your perception of what the human body is capable of. That leads the way for others, and to follow, and to test out their personal limits. I think that's important too.

Dean: Well, I've run over 300 traditional marathons. And you go to the Boston Marathon, you go to these big marquee marathons, the New York City Marathon, and you see people in their 70s and 80s that, compared to their peers, are off the charts. You say, 'Well, that running is gonna be bad for you.' I don't subscribe to that.

Lisa: I've done what, 70-odd thousand K's. Not as much as you have. And I don't have any knee pain. I don't have any back pain because I keep my core strong and that's despite having accidents with my back and having no discs. Because I keep myself fit and healthy. I have had some issues with hormones and kidney function because when we... You would have been rhabdomyolysis, no doubt a few times.

Dean: Minor, minor, but I have. Yeah. Every ultra runner has, yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, so things that. You've got to just keep an eye on and make sure you don't... You look after your kidneys otherwise and do things to mitigate the damage. Because yeah there are certain things that damage. But life damages you. Like living, breathing is damaging. It's causing oxidative stress. So you've got to weigh up the pros and cons, but having an active physical life outdoors, and having adventures, and being curious and excited, and being involved in the world, that's got to be beneficial for you. So when do you actually start with this big adventure with Pat?

Dean: It's on the 14th of August, so in about a week. Yep. They finish on the 24th, yeah.

Lisa: Oh, I'd like to get you both back on at the end of it to give me a rundown, have a go. That will be cool. Dean, let's just pivot now and let's talk a little bit about your book. Because you brought out some incredible books over the years. You're world-famous. You're a New York Times bestselling author. You've been named by the Times magazine as one of the most hundred influential people of the world. That's just insane. And now, you're brought out Runner's High. What's different about this story?

Dean: Well, my first book was Ultramarathon Man, and that was kind of a coming-of-age book. It was about me learning about this crazy universe of ultramarathon and people doing things that I thought was impossible. And Runner's High is five books later and three decades later. How am I still doing it? And how have I changed? How has the sport of ultramarathoning changed? How has the world changed? And that was the book. And it was also a very personal book and that... You're an ultramarathoner, and you know ultramarathon is an island.

If you start running these long distances it impacts everyone in your life including your family. Very much for your family. The book, it is not really about running. It's funny. People read it and they say, 'Wow. It's amazing but it's storytelling.' And you and I are both good storytellers, and that was what I just set out to write a book that was true and honest, and it was enjoyable for the reader. And yeah, it's doing really well in New Zealand, actually.

Lisa: It must be doing well around the world. And this one is very... It's really real, and genuine, and raw. No holds barred. No barred... What do you call it? No... How do you say that? It's very much a real and it's a love letter to, basically, like you say, to running. And you're actually revisiting the Western States, a race that you've done how many times? 13 times or something? But coming back in your 50s, late 50s to do this again in 2018. It was a bit of a tough road, shall we say. Can you tell us a little bit about that part of the journey and why Western States are so special to you?

Dean: Yeah. The Western States 100 mile endurance run is in the Sierra Nevada, California. And it was the first 100-mile trail race, and I first did it back in 1994. So your first is always your best. It's kind of this amazing experience that you have, and you just never forget it. I can recall literally conversations I had in that race in 1994. I can recall what people were wearing. I can recall where I saw my parent. I recall it. It gets impressed upon your mind. So my synapses just absorbed it. So going back here after 13 goes at it and thinking, 'Wow, is this going to be a stale experience? Or what is it going to be like?'

And it ended up being quite magical and quite transformative in my career as well as... I learned a lot about my father and my son, and I wrote a lot about that in the book, and watching them crew for me, and how things have changed over time. It wasn't a good race. I don't want to be a spoiler but I think good races don't make good stories. Good races, you pop the champagne, yeah, it's boring. You high five at the finish, you have some champagne, and all this good. When things go to shit, that's an interesting story.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. I've got three books full of things turning to shit. And I think it's beautiful that you talk about your dad or what a crazy guy he is, and your son coming and how your son was actually... Like you didn't know whether he was up to crewing for you really because he's a young man. He wasn't going to take this seriously because you need your crew to be on form. How do he actually do when he was out there?

Dean: Yeah. There's a saying that in school, you get the lesson and you take the test. In parenting, you take the test and then you get the lesson. You're just like, 'Boy I screwed that one up.' You lose track of your kids, especially when they go off to uni.

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Dean: As a parent, your kids grew up quicker than you adjust to them growing up, and I always treat them as a guy that needs his diaper change kind of thing even though he's 20 years old now. Nick was just such a dichotomous individual because he complained to me when he came home from uni that his roommates were such slobs. I said, 'How do you like living with three other guys?' He's like, 'It’s great. They're my best friends, but they're such slobs.' Every every time I walked past his room, I'd look in his room, and it was a Tasmanian devil had gone through it. ‘Your room is such a mess.’ When he volunteered the crew for me at Western States, claiming he knew how to do it, even though the last time he'd done it, he was nine years old, and he didn't do anything.

At this time, he was actually driving a vehicle. He was the most important support I had during this kind of foot race. And I just thought that it was gonna be a horrible experience. That he'd be irresponsible, he wouldn't show up, and this, and that. At least it was just the opposite. He was the most responsible, so much more responsible than my dad. So much more capable. My dad's been doing this for 30 years, and my son who's never done it was so much better than my dad. He showed me a new side of him that I'd never seen.

Lisa: That's him growing up, I suppose?

Dean: Yeah. I think every parent that's got a kid is kind of nodding their head as they're hearing this because they can relate.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think kids, sometimes when they can be a kid, they'll be a kid. They'll be the irresponsible... But when you actually put them on the spot and expect something from them, sometimes, they come to the party if you're lucky, and actually step up to the line, and actually do a good job, and obviously, Nicholas did that.

Dean: Yeah. I think it's more the burden of the parent to accept and to realise that this little baby is self-sufficient and capable. Let go of the fact that they once were so dependent on you. They're not anymore. They have their own life, and they can navigate their way through the world.

Lisa: It must be pretty hard to let go. What do you think it's been like for them having such a famous, crazy, extreme athlete dad? Was it hard for both of them? Because I can imagine you were away a lot. You're doing dangerous, crazy, amazing things. Everybody knows you. You're extremely well known when you go anywhere. How did that affect the family in general?

Dean: It's funny. My kids have never known me as anything different. They've always known me as this ultramarathoner, and it's always been a family affair for me. My kids, they've been to Australia, they've been to Europe multiple times, South America, all over North America. I have taken them with me. I once ran 50 marathons in all of the 50 US states in 50 days, and they were along. Yeah. How many kids... My son was nine, my daughter was 11. How many kids ever, how many people ever get to see all of the states of America, let alone when you're that age? So I think that they just accept me for what I am.

Sometimes I get the fan thing where people come up to me like at a restaurant. Like, 'Oh, can you sign this or that?’ And it's always good people. The people that come up to me in an airport and say, 'Hey, I really admire you. Can we do a selfie?' They're decent people. Like I want to go have a glass of wine with this guy or this lady. It's not like I'm a rock star or movie star where I have all the crazy people chasing around. The people who chase me around are my peers. People I really admire myself.

Lisa: Or other runners. You know what? Something I've always admired about you, too, was that you always gave every single person time of day despite... And when we did that speaking gig together last year on the Gold Coast, I was really nervous, to be honest, because I was like, 'I'm on the stage with someone who is a superstar, and I'm little me.' Right? I'm sort of like, 'How the hell am I on stage with you? Because no one's gonna be interested in what the hell I've got to say when you're standing next to...' It's like some superstar, and you're standing on the stage with them, and you've got to do... It was quite difficult in a way because everybody wanted to... The line for your books was just two hours long. The line from mine was two people long.

Dean: You carried yourself beautifully. I thought together, we were a great pair. We complemented each other.

Lisa: You are a gentleman. You would always straight to me and make sure that I was included, which was fantastic. I saw you. Like you take the time for every single person. You are present with everybody, and that's a really hard thing to do. It's not so hard in a book signing, but it's bloody hard in the middle of a hundred-miler or a hundred K-er or when you were half-dead, dragging yourself into a checkpoint, and somebody wants a signature from you or a selfie, and you're trying to just get your stuff together. I found that difficult on my level of stuff. Because when I enter in New Zealand, I found that really difficult.

I'd have people coming out on the road with me all the way through. And in that preparation, I thought that would be cool. In the reality of the day-to-day grind, did you know when you're... Because I was running up to 70K's a day. I was in a world of pain and hurt most of the time, and just struggling to keep going, and very, very breakable, you feel like. And then, you'd have people coming out and now it's been maybe 2, 3, 4 or 5K's with you, and they're full of beans, and they want you to be full of beans and full of energy, and give them the greatest advice in their 5K's when you're half dead. I found that really, really hard because I'm actually, believe it or not, quite introverted and when I'm running, I go in.

How do you deal with it? How do you deal with that without being... Because you don't want to be rude. You don't want to be disrespectful to anybody, God forbid. But there were times on that run when I just literally had to say to my crew, 'I can't cope right now. I'm in a world of pain. I need some space.' And they have to sort of politely say, 'Sorry, she's not in a good space.' How do you deal with that?

Dean: Well, it's amazing that we're having this conversation because there are not a lot of people that can relate intimately to what you just said. Because most people will never be in that position but what.. I experienced exactly you've experienced. When running 50 marathons in 50 days or running, I ran across America as well. When you're in a world of hurt, you've got this protective shell on, and you don't want to be social, and then I'd have groups of college kids show up with my book. Like 'Oh my god. Karnazes, you're such a great influence, and we love your book.' And 'Let's order a pizza.' I just feel like I just want to crawl into a mummy bag and hide and you just got to turn it on.

Lisa: You've got to step up fine.

Dean: Yeah, they're so happy to see you, and they want to see you on. They don't want to see you like this groveler just dying. They want to see you strong and engaging, and it's really tough sometimes. Yeah. It's definitely really tough sometimes.

Lisa: Yeah, and that's why I admire that you managed to do that most of the time. You turn it on no matter in what shape you were. If I were to pull it out whereas, to be honest, a couple of times, I just couldn't. I'm just like, 'I'm done guys.' Remember on the run through New Zealand that one time? This was not with fans. I was running for CanTeen, the kids with cancer. I was in an immeasurable world of hurt one night after running for, God knows how long I've been out there, 1200 K’s or something at the stage. I had a 13-year-old boy was sent into my room to give me a pep talk. He was dying of cancer or had cancer, and he was here to give me a pep talk because I was crying. I wasn't able to get up and run the next day. And he came in and told me how much it meant to him, and to his peers, and what it meant to him that I was undertaking this journey.

That was a real lesson. Like, 'Oh, get over yourself. You're not dying, okay? You're not a 13 year old with cancer. You just have to run another 70 K's tomorrow. So what?' That's a good perspective. I did get up the next morning and go again and that was like, 'Here, come on.' Some funny but really touching moments. You are human and it's very easy when you go to a speaking engagement or whatever to be what you meant to be, a professional. But it's bloody hard when the chips are down and you're in the middle of a race to do that. So I really always did admire that about you. What I also admired was that it didn't matter whether you came first or last in a race. With the Western States, it was a struggle.

You never shied away from the fact that today might not have been your day, and you're having a bad day, and you weren't embarrassed about that. I've had races with Pat Farmers, a classic one in the middle of the Big Red Run where I was just falling to pieces. I was going through some personal trauma at the time, and my back went out. Yeah, I was just at a bad place. And I was embarrassed because I failed at a race at that stage. I was in that mindset. Now, I look back and go 'Give yourself a break.' How do you cope with that? How do you... Like when you don't do what the fans expect you to do on that day?

Dean: To me, it's your ego. Yeah, it is such an ego thing. And let's be honest, when you're a public figure, your failures are public. You don't fail in silence. You just kind of DNF and walk away and live the race another day. You DNF and people are taking pictures of you, and it's on the internet. I always got crowded. But in the end, I just... What can you do other than just do your best? You're human. All of us can only just do our best. So my commitment now is like, ‘When I stand on the starting line, I'm going to give it my all. I'm not going to leave anything on this course. I'm just going to be the best that Dean can be. I'm going to try my hardest and the only way I'm going to fail is if I don't try my hardest and don't give it my all.’ And when you go with that mindset, no matter what happens, you're doing yourself a service.

Lisa: Yeah, and you're a winner. This is such a powerful message, I think, for young people listening because often, we don't even try because we don't want to risk embarrassing ourselves, and risk failure, and risk looking like an idiot. And what you're saying is just forget your ego, set that to the side, and go, 'I'm going to give it all today, and if it isn't enough, it isn't enough and that's fine. I'll learn something out of it. And it's a journey that I'm on. And I'm going to be the best I can be today.' That's such a powerful story of perspective, and resilience, and leaving the ego at the door. I did struggle with that when I was younger because I had some pretty spectacular failures, and they really hurt. They really hurt where you take a long time to sort of go, 'Do I want to do that again in the public eye?' So to speak. And you've just always just been 'If it was a good day, it was a good day, and on to the next one if it was a bad day.'

Dean: Yeah, I think bold failures build character. I have to be honest. Success builds character, but so does failure and in a more profound way. I lean into every emotion that I have. Either success or failure, sorrow or regret. All those things that happen when you have a bad race or a bad day. I want that full emotional range. It just makes you a better human, I think. Not to shy away from those deep lows where you're just crushed. I think that people that try to avoid that are really missing out. Yeah, yeah, it's painful and it hurts but it builds your character in a profound way.

Lisa: Wow. That is so deep, actually. Because we're often taught push down your emotions, and keep them in a box, and be a professional, and keep going, and keep calm and carry on type thing. And it has its place as far as when you're in the middle of a race, you’ve got to keep your shit together, and compartmentalise stuff, and be able to function. But I think it's also very important to experience the pain, the grief, the pain, or whatever you're going through, and the happiness. It's another thing. I would get to the end of a race and it didn't matter how well I'd done, and what I've just achieved, and how difficult it was.

I remember doing one in the Himalayas and a friend coming up to me afterwards and it was 220K race, extreme altitude, hell of a journey to get there, all sorts of obstacles. I get to the finish line and he's just like, 'Wow, you're amazing. It's incredible. I can't believe what you just did. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it.' And I just went, 'Oh no. Someone else was faster, and there's a longer race.' You know what I mean? And I didn't integrate it. And he just went, 'Oh, for crying out loud. Can't you just take this one to the bank and actually bank it as being a success and a huge win?' And I really took that to heart.

And now, I pat myself on the back when I do even a little thing good because it reinforces that neural pathway in my brain that tells me, 'This was great because I just got a little reward' rather than, 'You're never good enough.' Because that was what I was telling myself before. No matter what I did, it wasn't enough. And now, flip that script around to go, 'Hey, you managed to do your shoelaces and get to the end of the road today. Well, done.’ And it's the thought of it.

Dean: It is, completely. My son said something to me that was along that same vein during the Western States. I said, ‘Nicholas…’ This is maybe a mile 60 or 70 of a hundred-mile run. I said, 'My race is crap. I'm not having a good race.' And he looked at me, said, 'Dad, you're running a hundred miles. To most people, that's enough.' And I put it in perspective. That although I'm with all these super elite athletes, you're not doing that... To most people that hear about anyone running a hundred miles, they don't care if you came in first or last. A hundred miles? They don't care if my time was 15 hours or 50 hours. They're just so inspired. Yeah, blown away by it. Yeah.

Lisa: Exactly, And I think that puts it because when we hang out... Because you are the sum total of the people that you hang out with, the top five, as the saying goes. And that can have negative connotations as well as positive. It can be the fact that you think if you're hanging out with the five top guys in the world, then you are going to be not looking too good. But if you're hanging out with just the average person, and you're doing something this long and this incredible, for most people, that's just like, 'Huh? Humans can do that?' I did a speaking engagement yesterday in Auckland and the people were like, 'But that's humanly impossible.' I go, 'It actually isn't, and there's actually thousands of us that do the stuff.' And then, they're like, 'What? I don't get it.'

Dean: That was it. That was the same reaction I had when I heard about someone running a hundred mile like that. They're, 'Oh, there's trickery.' I thought there's trickery. I thought there's hotels, or just campgrounds, or something. The guy said, 'The gun goes off and you just run, and you stop when you cross the finish line.' I couldn't wrap my head around it.

Lisa: Until you did it.

Dean: Until you did it. Exactly, yeah.

Lisa: And you built yourself up to it, and this is the thing. It's a combination of so much and it's that journey isn't it? So I think what we're talking about is it being this incredible life journey that you go on within an ultramarathon and within the training of our ultramarathon. It's like living an entire life in short. You're going through the highs, and the lows, and everything in between. And it's long, and it's hard, and it's awesome, and it's amazing, and you meet incredible people. It's everything that you go through in life but just on an intensive timescale, I feel like. And it's just a beautiful experience to go through, especially with the value of hindsight. Sometimes, in the middle of it, mile 70 of a hundred-mile race, it's not looking too flash.

Dean: Well, but I mean, to that point, when we reflect back on moments that we remember, at least me, it's not the victories. It's not the crossing the finish line first to me. It's always that time where I thought, 'I'm done. This is it. I can't get out of this chair. I'm trashed.' And somehow getting through that really, really tough moment and carrying on. That's what sticks with you. It's pretty weird, at least with me. Those are the moments that reflect back on my career. It's those horrible moments that I somehow persisted.

Lisa: When you look back, you're proud of yourself and you know that when... One of the biggest values, and I've seen this with my story with Mum and, unfortunately, recently with my dad, is that when the shit hits the fan, like it did in those two situations, I knew that I could step up to do everything within my power and that I was a fighter. I knew that I was a fighter, and then I knew that I would fight to the bitter end, whatever the outcome was. And that's a really good thing to know about yourself. Because you need to know that when things are down, what character do you have? Who are you when all the niceties of our world have gone? What are you capable of? And you learn to be able to function when everyone else is gone.

And that's a really powerful lesson that ultramarathoning teaches you, I think, in decades of the sort of hard work. And that's why athletes, I think... When you're employing athletes or you going into business with other athletes, you're more likely to have someone who's willing to fight through the tough times than if you just get someone who hasn't ever experienced any sort of discomfort in their life. Then they're not liable to be able to push through and be as resilient. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

Dean: I agree with you completely. And I often wonder if people have those character, those values, and that's what draws them to ultra running or if ultrarunning instils those values. I remember coming home from a run one time, and my neighbour was fetching up the morning paper. He saw me running back to my house and I'd, I don't know, I'd run 30 or 40 kilometres, and he said to me, 'Doesn't running hurt?' And I said to him, 'It doesn't if you're doing it right.' And he looked at me, 'I do everything to avoid difficult things.’ And I’m like, ‘And I embrace it.' It's just a different mindset.

Lisa: And if you have the mindset of wanting to always avoid all sorts of pain in life, then you're not going to experience very much. And when you're in a tough situation, you won't be able to cope because you won't have experienced any sort of pain. So the more that you had to struggle, the more strength you develop from that. The old proverb: 'Strength comes from struggle' is valid in all walks of life. So unfortunately, this is the way the world is set up. If you seek comfort all the time, you're actually going to be in deeper shit somewhere along the way and not able to help yourself because you haven't learned to fight, and you haven't learned to push through and to deal with a certain level of discomfort and a certain level of pain. And I think that's a really, really valuable thing to do.

Every day, I try to experience some sort of discomfort or pain: whether it's cold, whether it's pushing myself mentally, intellectually, whether it's pushing myself physically, doing some intense extreme exercise, or whatever the case may be. Every day, I try to do something that it scares the shit out of me or pushes me in some way because then, I know that I haven't gone backwards that day. I've probably learned something, and gone forward, and I've strengthened my body and my mind in some sort of way, shape, or form.

Dean: Yeah, but I think you're an exception. I think most people just try to take the path of least resistance and avoid difficult things and avoid pain. I think we've built our world around comfort: having every comfort available and removing as much discomfort and pain as we can. And I think, in a way, we're so comfortable, we're miserable.

Lisa: Exactly. That's exactly the problem. Because by actually experiencing a little bit of pain, by doing your push-ups, going for your run, doing your pull-ups, whatever the case is, being outside and digging the garden and doing stuff that is a bit unpleasant, it actually makes your body stronger, and it makes you mentally stronger. If we all sit on the couch and watch Netflix all day every day and eat chips, what's going to happen to us? We're going to destroy our health. We're going to just be so... And this is... I think I'm scared for the younger generation, that they haven't actually... We grew up. We're roughly the same age. You're a couple years older. I grew up in the 70's where we were outside, doing something all day, every day. We came in at night time for a feed and went to bed. That was our childhood, and that was just a beautiful way to grow up. We were cold. We were hungry. We were tired. We were happy.

Dean: We were playing, right? We were exercising. I remember riding my bike just everywhere. I never thought of it as exercise. It was playing. Kids don't play that way anymore, unfortunately.

Lisa: It's a scary thing for them because we need to teach them. Because again, it goes back to sort of respecting our ancient DNA and that's what I think... That's another thing that ultramarathoning does, or even trekking, or adventuring in any sort of way, shape, or form. It's that we've come from stock that used to have to build their own houses, cut down their own trees, chase animals, whatever the case was, just to survive. And then, we now have it all laid on for us. We're in lovely houses. We've got light all day or night. We've got food every street corner. And our ancient DNA isn't just set up for that. This is where all the problems come. We could go on a complete rant, which I often do on this podcast.

But coming back to your story in your Runner's High, what do you think now looking back at this incredibly long and prolific career and this incredible journey that you've been on so far, and I do think that you still got miles and miles to go. What are some of the biggest lessons that you've learned along the way on the thirty-odd year journey that you've been? What are the biggest takeaways from ultramarathon running?

Dean: I think that it's the little moments that are the most priceless. It's not the moments where... I write about meeting with First Lady Michelle Obama. Yeah, that was great. It was amazing, and incredible, and everything else, but it's the little moments of having a moment with a crew member or your family that you just you reflect on and laugh about. So it's those things to me that are most priceless. The other thing with ultramarathoning that I've certainly learned is that it's a journey. To me, it's a passion and it's something I've committed my life to. And staying true to the person you are, there's value in that. Even though it's just running, Lisa. It's nothing hugely intellectual. I'm not winning Nobel prizes. I'm just a runner, but that's who I am and I'm staying true to that. I'm going to do that to the grave. And I think in that, there's a simplicity and I think there's some magic in that.

Lisa: Oh, absolutely. You know what you're born to do. You say it's only running but actually, you're a teacher; you're an author; you're a person who empowers others. You're doing all of that in the framework of running. So you do a heck of a lot more than just running for me. You’ve influenced an entire generation worldwide. I hope you know. Without you, ultramarathon running would not be where it is today. So I think you know a little bit more than just running yourself. This is the power of books, and this is the power of storytelling. And it's the power of having such a unique character that is so charismatic and draws people in. And those are all the things that you've managed to take.

You could have just been a silent runner who just did his thing and went away again, but you've chosen to share your journey with the world. And that's just gold because that just gives people an insight into what they can do. It's all about... when I read your books, I'm getting something for me. And everybody who's reading those books, that's actually, 'Yes, we talk. We're hearing Dean's story.' But we're actually going, 'Huh. Maybe I could do that. Maybe I could try that. Oh, yeah I've experienced that.' This is the conversation that are going on in people's heads when they read those stories, and that's why they have such an intimate connection with you. And why, even though it's weird when people come up and ask you for an autograph or any of that, they feel like they know you, and they do know you.

Dean: I've got a message from a guy. Yeah, I know. Every time I think, 'Wow, this is really laborious, writing these books. And maybe it's my last book.' I got a message from a guy a couple days ago and he said, 'I was planning on reading a couple chapters of your new book before I went to bed.' And he said five hours later, 'I finished the last page.' And then, he said, 'And then I got up. I just had to go running.' Wow. Then the book worked if it motivated him to read the whole thing in one sitting and get up and go running, then it's worthwhile.

Lisa: Absolutely. And you know when you read, I read books ferociously, and the list is long. I'm usually reading about 10 books at a time. And when I'm reading, I am distilling the world's top people and their entire experience, I get to absorb within the space of 10, 15 hours of reading their book. That's a good return on investment. If I want to download someone's experience, or knowledge, or whatever the case is, then reading books is just such a powerful way to do it and listening to podcasts as well. Because that's another way that you can do it without having to... You can be out and about, driving, or running, or whatever and absorbing some new information. And I think we're just so lucky to have access to all of this. It's just incredible.

Dean: It is and it's a pity if you don't take advantage of that because you're so wise and educated. That conversation we had before the podcast, it's amazing how... It's amazing. Your knowledge base and how you developed your knowledge base. Well, you've absorbed the best of the best and what they're thinking and the research they've done.

Lisa: Exactly. All you're doing is you're absorbing it from the best scientists, the best doctors, the best athletes, the best executives, the best business people, and then, you get to share it, teach it. This is the other thing. If I learn something in the morning, I'm teaching it in the afternoon. Usually it's to my poor husband or my mother. I'm teaching it and then, I often build into my programs, or it comes out in my webinars, or whatever. And you’re basically just regurgitating stuff that you've learned, but it's powerful when you put it into the perspective of your experience and you change it. You learn it, you teach it. You learn it, you teach it.

And that's a such a cool way to share, and get that information out there into the world, and actually help the world on your little corner of the earth and what you're doing. And that's what I love to do and that's the power of what your books are all about. So yeah, I commiserate with you. Getting a book out is a bloody long, hard journey. People don't realise how hard it is to write a book. Give me a bloody hundred miler any day over writing a book. In fact, give me ten hundred milers over any day because it's such a long process, isn't it?

Dean: Well, I do a lot of my writing while I'm running actually. So I dictate into my phone now. Because we have some of our clearest thoughts while we're running. Before, I used to think, 'God, why didn't I write that down? How did that go again?' Now, I just dictate as I'm running and then come home, put in an earbud, and just type up my notes.

Lisa: I haven't done variations of that. I do end up stopping on my runs and just writing a quick note. I haven't actually dictated. I have to start adapting that because maybe that'll make it easy because you're damn right. When I'm actually at the computer, there's distractions. There's a hundred windows open; there's notifications coming all the time, and I really find it hard to sit down and write. It is sometimes best if you could just dictate into something, so I'll have to give that a crack next time.

Dean: I think motion stirs emotion.

Lisa: Yeah, it does and it clears the mind. That's one thing I miss now that I'm not doing the ultras, personally, at the moment. It's that singularity of purpose. That cleanness the mind had before of this one goal. And I'm watching my husband's preparing for a hundred miler in November. And just watching everything in his whole day, and he has the luxury of doing this because we haven't got kids and stuff, but everything in his whole day is centred around his training and getting to that hundred miler in the best shape that he can. And that singularity of purpose, if you like, almost that selfishness but having that one thing that you're doing, oh, I miss that. I miss that.

Dean: It's funny because I have friends that are mountain climbers, and we compare notes in that regard, and they say the same thing. They said life is frenetic, and we're moving in all these different directions. It's crazy basically. But when we're preparing for a summit quest, we have a mission. There's this we get to the summit like everything we're doing is focused on reaching the summit and there's clarity in that. You're right, that singularity of purpose. That's a good way to put it.

Lisa: Yeah, and this clarity that I really, really find, I think, a lot of us are struggling with because I don't have the luxury of that sort of clarity at the moment and that singular thing because I'm building businesses, and looking after Mum, and doing a hundred bloody things that I do. And my brain never gets that quiet singular thing. It does want to go for a run, but it's a short run now. And so that's not long enough to actually get that feeling and I'm not on an athletic mission. Okay, it's a time in my life, and it's where I'm at, and that's fine. But Jesus, hard sometimes. Just not to be able to have that freedom of living just for yourself and being actually dedicated to one thing. And I find that very, very hard sometimes, especially with all the thousand things that are coming at you when you run businesses.

Dean: That's why I run, they say.

Lisa: I haven't worked that one out. I haven't organised myself for a while. What I have done. Oh, Dean, you've been absolutely wonderful today. I don't want to take up any more of your time in lockdown because goodness knows, you've got lots to do there, probably.

Dean: It's an exciting day because I think it's my fifth COVID test since showing up. So every couple of days, they show up. They knock on your door and stick a swab up your nose. I've been fully vaccinated. You've just been here five times. I don't think I'm going to get it. I've been in the hotel room by myself for two weeks.

Lisa: Yeah. Come on.

Dean: Where's it going to come from?

Lisa: Yeah, it must be very frustrating. But hey, two more days and you're in freedom and then you're going to be able to run, and run, and run.

Dean: I'd get to run a thousand miles, yeah.

Lisa: With a very cool mate so give my greetings to Pat Farmer. He's a legend, and I've got to get him back on. Actually, you guys should come on together at the end of your run. That'd be just fabulous. Mum is sitting over in the chair, waiting for me to take her to the gym so I better get my bum into gear. Dean, thank you so much for your time. I love you to bits. I think you're amazing. I think your books are awesome and what you've done for the world of ultramarathoning and beyond is just incredible. Thank you for your time today.

Dean: Well, the feeling is completely mutual, Lisa. Thank you, and I look forward to the time where we can share some footsteps together again.

Lisa: Oh, that would be absolutely gold.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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How do you handle stressful situations? Everyone’s built a little different — some people can take their hits on the chin and come out smiling.

But not everyone can take those hits. The pandemic has taken its mental toll on so many people. Others might still be struggling with past traumas and dealing with anxiety. Their situation keeps them in a state of constant worry and hypervigilance. That state of mind doesn't only harm their mental and emotional health — it can make them sick and more prone to physical diseases. More than ever, it's time to begin mental healing from past traumas, so we can better cope with our daily stresses.

Dr Don Wood joins us again in this episode to talk about the TIPP program and how it facilitates mental healing. He explains how our minds are affected by traumas and how these can affect our health and performance. If we want to become more relaxed, we need to learn how to go into the alpha brainwave state. Since mental healing is not an immediate process, Dr Don also shares some coping strategies we can use in our daily lives.

If you want to know more about how neuroscience can help you achieve mental healing, then this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how trauma can put you in a constant state of survival and affect your performance and daily life. 2. Understand that it's not your fault. Achieving mental healing will require you to learn how to go into an alpha brainwave state. 3. Discover healthy habits that will keep you from entering survival mode.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * A new program, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #183: Sirtuin and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #199: How Unresolved Trauma Prevents You from Having a Healthy Life With Dr Don Wood * Check out Dr Don Wood’s books: * + Emotional Concussions: Understanding How Our Nervous System is Affected By Events and Experiences Throughout Our Life + You Must Be Out Of Your Mind: We All Need A Reboot * Connect with Dr Don Wood: Inspired Performance Institute I Facebook I LinkedIn

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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

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For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

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Episode Highlights [06:05] The Pandemic-Induced Mental Health Crisis * The pandemic forced many people into a state of freeze mode, not the typical fight or flight response. * As people get out of freeze mode, there will be a rise in mental health issues. * Teenagers are robbed of the opportunity to develop social and communication skills during this time.

[08:24] How Dr Don Wood Started Studying Traumas * Dr Don’s wife grew up in a household with an angry father who instilled fear. * He used to think that she would be less anxious when they started to live together, but she struggled with mental healing. * She had an inherent belief that misfortune always follows good things. Her traumas and fears also led to a lot of health issues. * She also was hyper-vigilant, which she used as a protective mechanism. However, this prevented her from being relaxed and happy. * A person’s environment can dictate whether they go into this hyper-vigilant state, but genetics can also play a factor.

[15:42] How Trauma Affects the Brain * Trauma is caused by a dysregulation of the subconscious. * If your brain is in survival mode, it will access data from the past and create physiological responses to them. * These emotions demand action, even when it is no longer possible or necessary. * This dysregulation prevents you from living in the present and initiating mental healing. * In this state, people can be triggered constantly, which interferes with their day-to-day life.

[21:07] The Role of the Subconscious * Your conscious mind only takes up around 5%, while the subconscious takes up 95%. * Your subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between real and imagined. * In survival mode, people will keep replaying the past and think about different scenarios and decisions. * You’re left stuck because the subconscious mind only lives in the now. It does not have a concept of time. * This process is the brain trying to protect you.

[25:04] What Happens When You’re Always in Survival Mode * Being in survival mode will take a physical toll since it’s constantly activating the nervous system, increasing cortisol and adrenaline. * When you’re in this state, your body and mind cannot work on maintenance and recovery. It is more focused on escaping or fixing perceived threats. * Over time, this will affect your immune system and make you sick. * To truly achieve mental healing, you need to get to the root cause of your problems. * However, you also have to develop coping strategies to manage your day-to-day activities.

[30:18] Changing Your Brainwave State * Traumatic events are usually stored in a beta brainwave state. Changing your response to traumatic events starts with going into an alpha brainwave state. * The beta state is usually from 15 - 30 hertz, while the alpha is lower at 7 - 14 hertz. Anything below that is the delta state, usually when you're in deep meditation or sleep. * People who have trouble sleeping are usually in that beta state, which keeps processing information. * It's only in the delta state that your mind and body start the maintenance phase. This phase helps not only with mental healing but also physical recovery. * Learn more about Lisa and Dr Don’s personal experiences with these brainwave states in the full episode!

[34:30] Mental Healing and Physical Recovery Starts with the Brain * Recovery is about genetics and the environment. * In sleep, your mind will always want to deal with the threats first. It can only get to the delta state once it finishes processing these dangers. * Your risk for developing sickness and depression rises if your brain can't do maintenance. * Living in the beta state will make it difficult to focus.

[41:40] It’s Not Your Fault * If you have a lot of trauma, you are predisposed to respond in a certain way. It’s not your fault. * There’s nothing wrong with your mind; you just experienced different things from others. * Dr Don likened this situation to two phones having a different number of applications running. * Predictably, the device that runs more applications will have its battery drained faster.

[44:05] Change How You Respond * Working on traumas requires changing the associative and repetitive memory, which repeats responses to threats. * You cannot change a pattern and get mental healing immediately—it will take time. * That’s the reason why Dr Don’s program has a 30-day recovery phase dedicated to changing your response pattern. * Patterns form because the subconscious mind sees them as a beneficial way of coping with traumas. * This function of your subconscious is how addictions form.

[47:04] Why We Can Be Irrational * The subconscious lives only in the present. It does not see the future nor the past. * It will want to take actions that will stop the pain, even if the actions are not rational. * At its core, addiction is all about trying to stop the pain or other traumatic experiences. * Survival mode always overrides reason and logic because its priority is to protect you.

[50:57] What to Do When You’re in Survival State * In this survival state, we’re prone to movement or shutting down completely. * The brain can stop calling for emotions to protect you, and this is how depression develops. * When in a depressed state, start moving to initiate mental healing. Exercise helps burn through cortisol and adrenaline. * Once your mind realises there's no action required for the perceived threats, the depression will lift.

[53:24] Simple Actions Can Help * There’s nothing wrong with you. * Don’t just treat the symptom; go straight to the issue. * Don’t blame genetics or hormonal imbalances for finding it hard to get mental healing. Find out why. * Also, seek things that will balance out your hormones. These can be as simple as walking in nature, taking a break, and self-care.

[56:04] How to Find a Calming Symbol * Find a symbol that will help you go back into the alpha brainwave state. * Lisa shares that her symbol is the sunset or sunrise, and this helps her calm down. Meanwhile, Dr Don’s are his home and the hawk. * Having a symbol communicates to all parts of your brain that you’re safe.

[59:58] The Power of Breathing * Stress may lead to irregular breathing patterns and increase your cortisol levels and blood sugar. * Breathing exercises, like box breathing, can also help you calm down because the brain will take higher oxygen levels as a state of safety. * If you’re running out of oxygen, your brain will think you’re still in danger. * Make sure that you’re breathing well. It’s also better to do nasal breathing.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘The purpose of an emotion is a call for an action. So the purpose of fear is to run.’

‘People who have a lot of trauma have trouble sleeping. Because not only is their mind processing what it experienced during the day, it's also taking some of those old files saying “Well, okay, let's fix that now. Right. Let's get that.”’

‘I was getting maximum restorative sleep. So an injury that I would have that could heal in two or three days, my teammates would two or three weeks. Because they were living in these, which I didn't know, a lot of my friends were dealing with trauma: physical, emotional, sexual abuse.’

‘There's nothing wrong with anybody's mind. Everybody's mind is fine except you are experiencing something different than I experienced so your mind kept responding to it, and mine didn't have that.’

‘That dysregulation of the nervous system. That's what we want to stop because that is what is going to affect health, enjoyment of life, and everything else.’

‘I talked about addiction as a code. I don't believe it's a disease. Your mind has found a resource to stop pains and your subconscious mind is literal. It doesn't see things as good or bad, or right or wrong.’

‘If there's a survival threat, survival will always override reason and logic because it's designed to protect you.’

About Dr Don Dr Don Wood, PhD, is the CEO of The Inspired Performance Institute. Fueled by his family’s experiences, he developed the cutting-edge neuroscience approach, TIPP. The program has produced impressive results and benefited individuals all over the world.

Dr Wood has helped trauma survivors achieve mental healing from the Boston Marathon bombing attack and the Las Vegas shooting. He has also helped highly successful executives and world-class athletes. Marko Cheseto, a double amputee marathon runner, broke the world record after completing TIPP. Meanwhile, Chris Nikic worked with Dr Wood and made world news by becoming the first person with Down Syndrome to finish an Ironman competition.

Interested in Dr Don’s work? Check out The Inspired Performance Institute.

You can also reach him on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn steps to mental healing.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today, I have Dr Don Wood who, you may recognise that name if you listen to the podcast regularly. He was on the show maybe a couple of months ago, and he is the CEO and founder of The Inspired Performance Institute. He's a neuroscience guy, and he knows everything there is to know about dealing with trauma and how to get the mind back on track when you've been through big, horrible life events or some such thing. Now, when we talked last time, he shared with me his methodology, the work that he's done, how he can help people with things like addictions as well and depression, and just dealing with the stresses of life, whether they be small stressors or big stressors.

We got to talking about my situation and the stuff that I've been through in the last few years, which many of you listeners know, has been pretty traumatic. From losing babies, to losing my dad, to mom's journey. So I was very privileged and lucky to have Dr Don Wood actually invite me to do his program with him. We share today my stories, how I went with that, and he explains a little bit more in-depth the neuroscience behind it all and how it all works. So if you're someone who's dealing with stress, anxiety, PTSD, depression, if you want to understand how the brain works and how you can help yourself to deal with these sorts of things, then you must listen to the show. He's an absolutely lovely, wonderful person.

Now, before we get over to the show, I just love you all to do a couple of things for me. If you wouldn't mind doing a rating and review of the show on Apple, iTunes or wherever you listen to this, that would be fantastic. It helps the show get found. We also have a patron program, just a reminder if you want to check that out. Come and join the mission that we're on to bring this wonderful information to reach to people.

Also, we have our BOOSTCAMP program starting on the first of September 2021. If you listen to this later, we will be holding these on a regular basis so make sure you check it out. This is an eight-week live webinar series that my business partner, my best buddy, and longtime coach Neil Wagstaff and I will be running. It's more about upgrading your life and helping you perform better, helping you be your best that you can be, helping you understand your own biology, your own neuroscience, how your brain works, how your biology works. Lots of good information that's going to help you upgrade your life, live longer, be happier, reduce stress, and be able to deal with things when life is stressful. God knows we're all dealing with that. So I'd love you to come and check that out. You can go to peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp.

I also want to remind you to check us out on Instagram. I'm quite active on Instagram. I have a couple of accounts there. We have one for the podcast that we've just started. We need a few more followers please on there. Go to @pushingthelimits for that one on Instagram, and then my main account is @lisatamati, if you want to check that one out. If you are a running fan, check us out on Instagram @runninghotcoaching and we're on Facebook under all of those as well. So @lisatamati, @pushingthelimits, and @runninghotcoaching.

The last thing before we go over to Dr Don Wood, reminder check out, too, our longevity and anti-aging supplement. We’ve joined forces with Dr Elena Seranova and have NMN which is nicotinamide mononucleotide, and this is really some of that cooler stuff in the anti-aging, and longevity space. If you want to check out the science behind that, we have a couple of podcasts with her. Check those out and also head on over to nmnbio.nz. Right. Over to the show with Dr Don Wood.

Hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today, I have a dear, dear friend again who's back on the show as a repeat offender, Dr Don Wood.

Dr Don Wood: I didn't know I was a repeat offender. Oh, I'm in trouble. That's great.

Lisa: Repeat offender on the show. Dr Don, for those who don't know, was on the show. Dr Don is a trauma expert and a neuroscientist, and someone who understands how the brain works, and why we struggle with anxiety, and depression, and post-traumatic stress disorder. We did a deep dive last time, didn't we, into the program that you've developed. Since then, everyone, I have been through Dr Don's pro program. He kindly took me through it. Today, I want to unpack a little bit of my experiences on the other side, s the client, so to speak. Talk about what I went through.

Dr Don, so firstly, welcome to the show again. How's it all over in your neck of the woods?

Dr Don: Well, it's awesome over here in Florida. COVID is basically non-existent. Oh, yeah. Well, in terms of the way people are treating it, that's for sure. Very few people you see in masks now, everything is pretty much wide open. You can't even get reservations at restaurants. It's unbelievable. The economy is exploding here. There's so much going on. Yeah, I know the rest of the country, a lot of different places are still struggling with whether they're going to put mask mandates back on and all this kind of stuff but Florida seems to be doing very well.

Lisa: Well, I'm very glad to hear that because any bit of good news in this scenario is good because this keeps coming and biting everybody in the bum.

Dr Don: I know. Especially down there. You guys are really experiencing quite severe lockdowns and things, right?

Lisa: Yeah and Australia, more so. Australia has gone back into lockdown. I've got cousins in Sydney who are experiencing really hard times in Melbourne and we've stopped the trans-Tasman bubble at the moment. Trans-Tasman was open for business, so to speak, with Australians being able to come to New Zealand without quarantine, but it's been shut down again. So yeah, we're still struggling with it, and the economy is still struggling with it but actually, in our country, we've been very lucky that we've managed to keep it out because they've had such tight controls on the borders. But yes, it's a rocky road for everybody, and it's not over yet, I think.

Dr Don: Looks like it's going to continue, and that's creating a lot of stress.

Lisa: Oh, yeah, perfect.

Dr Don: This is what I've said. I think we're coming up to a tsunami of mental health issues because a lot of people have gone into freeze mode as opposed to fight or flight. Some people are in fight or flight. You're hearing about that on airlines: people just losing it, and getting mad, and fighting with flight attendants and passengers, and you see a lot of that. But I think that's obviously not the majority. I think most people are in that mode of just get through this, do what they ask, don't cause any waves, and just get this over with. So that's a freeze mode, and I think when people come out of freeze, you're going to start to see some of these mental health issues.

Lisa: Yes, I totally agree and I'm very concerned about the young people. I think that being hit very hard especially in the places that have the hardest lockdowns. If you're going through puberty, or you're going through teenagehood, or even the younger kids, I think, they're going to be affected massively by this because it's going to be a big before and after sort of situation for them.

Dr Don: And just the social. When we were teenagers, social was everything, I suppose. Learning how to communicate, and talk, and get along with other people, and good and bad. There were always struggles in school with learning how to get along with everybody but that is just sort of squashed. It's going to be fascinating to see when they do a study on the real true results of this pandemic. It's going to be a lot different than many people think.

Lisa: Yes, and I think the longer you ignore stuff, is we’re going to see it's not just the people are unfortunately dying and being very sick from the actual COVID, but the actual effects on society are going to be big. That's why talking about the topic that we're talking about today, dealing with anxiety, and dealing with stress, and being able to actually fix the problem instead of just managing the problem, which I know you're big on.

So let's dive in there, and let's recap a little bit. Just briefly go back over your story, how you got to here, and what your method sort of entails in a helicopter perspective.

Dr Don: Yeah, basically how I developed this was really because of the life that my wife led first and my daughter. My wife grew up in a very traumatic household with a very angry father that created tremendous fear. So everybody was... Just constant tension in that household. When I met her, I just realised how this was so different than my life. My life was in the complete opposite: very nurturing, loving. So I didn't experience that. I thought when she started moving in and we got married at 19, we were very young, that this would all stop for her. Because now, she's living in my world, my environment, and it didn't.

She just kept continuing to feel this fear that something was going to go wrong and nothing is going to go right. She struggled with enjoying things that were going well. I would say to her, 'We've got three beautiful children. We’ve got a beautiful home. Everything's going pretty good; nothing's perfect. You have your ups and downs, but it's generally a pretty good life.’ She couldn't enjoy that because as a child, whenever things were going okay, it would quickly end and it would end, sometimes violently. So the way she was protecting herself is don't get too excited when things are going well because you'll get this huge drop. So that was what she was doing to protect herself.

I just had a lady come in here a couple months ago, who very famous athlete is her husband: millionaires, got fame, fortune, everything you want, but she had a lot of health issues because of trauma from her childhood. When I explained that to her, she said, 'That's me. Your wife is me. I should be enjoying this, and I can't get there. I want to. My husband can't understand it.' But that's really what was going on for her too.

Lisa: So it's a protective mechanism, isn't it? To basically not get too relaxed and happy because you've got to be hyper-vigilant, and this is something that I've definitely struggled with my entire life. Not because I had a horrible childhood. I had a wonderful childhood but I was super sensitive. So from a genetic perspective, I'm super sensitive. I have a lot of adrenaline that makes me code for, for want of a better description, I'm very emotionally empathetic but it also makes me swung by emotional stimuli very much. So someone in my environment is unhappy, I am unhappy. I'm often anxious and upset. My mum telling me she took me to Bambi. You know the movie Bambi? From Disneyland? She had to take me out of theatre. I was in distraught.

That's basically me. Because Bambi's mother got killed, right? I couldn't handle that as a four-year-old, and I still can't handle things. Things like the news and stuff, I protect myself from that because I take everything on. It's even a problem and in our business service situations because I want to save the world. I very much take on my clients' issues. I'm still learning to shut gates afterwards, so to speak, when you're done working with someone so that you're not constantly... So there's a genetic component to this as well.

Dr Don: Absolutely. So yours was coming from a genetic side but that's very, very common amongst people who have had a traumatic childhood. They're super sensitive.

Lisa: Yes. Hyper-vigilant.

Dr Don: Hyper-vigilant. That was my wife. She was constantly looking for danger. We’d come out of the storage and go: 'Can you believe how rude that clerk was?' 'What do you mean she was rude? How was she rude?' ‘You see the way she answered that question when I asked that, and then the way she stuffed the clothes in the bag?’ And I'm like, 'Wow.' I never saw her like that. She was looking for it because that's how she protected herself because she had to recognise when danger was coming. So it was protection, and I hadn't experienced that so that made no sense to me; it made perfect sense to her.

Lisa: Yeah, and if someone was rude to you, you would be just like, 'Well, that's their problem, not my problem, and I'm not taking it on.' Whereas for someone your wife and for me... I did have a dad who was a real hard, tough man, like old-school tough. We were very much on tenterhooks so when they came home, whether he was in a good mood today or not in a good mood. He was a wonderful, loving father but there was that tension of wanting to please dad. Mum was very calm and stable, but Dad was sort of more volatile and just up and down. It was wonderful and fun and other times, you'd be gauging all of that before he even walked in the door. That just makes you very much hyper-vigilant to everything as well.

Then, you put on, on top of that, the genetic component. You've got things like your serotonin and your adrenaline. So I've got the problem with the adrenaline and a lack of dopamine. So I don't have dopamine receptors that stops me feeling satisfaction and... Well, not stops me but it limits my feeling of, 'Oh, I've done a good job today. I can relax.' Or of reward. And other people have problems, I don't have this one, but with a serotonin gene, which is they have dysregulation of their serotonin and that calm, and that sense of well-being and mood regulation is also up and down. While it's not a predisposition that you'll definitely going to have troubles because you can learn the tools to manage those neurotransmitters and things like nutrition and gut health and all that aspect. Because it's all a piece of that puzzle, but it's really just interesting, and it makes you much more understanding of people's differences.

Why does one person get completely overwhelmed in a very trivial situation versus someone else who could go into war and come back and they're fine? What is it that makes one person? Then you got the whole actual neuroscience circuitry stuff, which I find fascinating, what you do. Can you explain a little bit what goes on? Say let's just pick a traumatic experience: Someone's gone through some big major trauma. What is actually going on in the brain again? Can we explain this a little bit?

Dr Don: Yeah, this is one of the things that... When I did my research, I realised this is what's causing the dysregulation: is your subconscious your survival brain is fully present in the moment all the time. So everything in that part of our brain is operating in the present. which is what is supposed to be, right? They say that that's the key, that success and happiness is live in the present. Well, your survival brain does that. The problem comes in is that only humans store explicit details about events and experiences. So everything you've seen, heard, smelled, and touched in your lifetime has been recorded and stored in this tremendous memory system. Explicit memory.

Animals have procedural memory or associative memory. We have that memory system too. So we have both. They only have procedural, associative. So they learn through repetition, and they learn to associate you with safety and love, but they don't store the details about it. But we store all the details about these events and experiences. So this is where this glitch is coming in. If you've got the survival brain, which is 95% of everything that's going on, operating in the present, accessing data from something that happened 10 years ago because something looks like, sounds like, smells like it again, it's creating a response to something that's not happening. It's looking at old data and creating a physiological response to it, and the purpose of an emotion is a call for an action. So the purpose of fear is to run, to escape a threat. But there's no threat. It's just information about the threat. That disrupts your nervous system and then that creates a cascade of chemical reactions in your body because your mind thinks there's an action required.

Lisa: This is at the crux of the whole system really, isn't it? This is this call for action to fix a problem that is in the past that cannot be fixed in the now. So if we can dive a little bit into my story, and I'm quite open on the show. I'm sharing the good, the bad, and the ugly. When I was working with Dr Don, I've been through a very, very traumatic few years really. Lost my dad, first and foremost, last July, which was the biggest trauma of my life. And it was a very difficult process that we went through before he died as well. And there’s a lift, as you can imagine, my brain in a state of every night nightmares, fighting for his life, he's dying over, and over, and over, and over again.

Those memories are intruding into my daily life, whereas in anything and at any time, I could be triggered and be in a bawling state in the middle of the car park or the supermarket. Because something's triggered me that Dad liked to to buy or Dad, whatever the case was, and this was becoming... It's now a year after the event but everything was triggering me constantly. Of course, this is draining the life out of you and interfering with your ability to give focus to your business, to your family, to your friends, every other part of your life. I'd also been through the trauma of bringing Mum back from that mess of aneurysm that everyone knows about. The constant vigilance that is associated with bringing someone back and who is that far gone to where she is now, and the constant fear of her slipping backwards, and me missing something, especially in light of what I'd been through with my father. So I'd missed some things, obviously. That's why he ended up in that position and through his own choices as well.

But this load, and then losing a baby as well in the middle, baby Joseph. There was just a hell of a lot to deal with in the last five years. Then, put on top of it, this genetic combination of a hot mess you got sitting before you and you've got a whole lot of trauma to get through. So when we did the process, and I was very, super excited to do this process because it was so intrusive into my life, and I realised that I was slowly killing myself because I wasn't able to stop that process from taking over my life. I could function. I was highly functional. No one would know in a daily setting, but only because I've got enough tools to keep my shit together. so to speak. But behind closed doors, there's a lot of trauma going on.

So can you sort of, just in a high level, we don't want to go into the details. This is a four-hour program that I went through with Dr Don. What was going on there. and what did you actually help me with?

Dr Don: So when you're describing those things that were happening to you, what was actually happening to your mind is it was not okay with any of that. It wanted it to be different, right? So it was trying to get you into a state of action to stop your father from dying: Do it differently. Because it kept reviewing the data. It was almost looking at game tape from a game and saying 'Oh, had we maybe run the play that way, we would have avoided the tackle here.' So what your mind was saying 'Okay, run that way.' Well, you can't run that way. This is game tape. Right? But your mind doesn't see it as game tape. It sees it as real now, so it's run that way. So it keeps calling you into an action.

And especially with your dad because you were thinking about, 'Why didn't I do this?' Or 'Had I just done this, maybe this would have happened.' What your mind was saying is, 'Okay, let's do it. Let's do that.' What you just thought about. But you can't do that. It doesn't exist. It's information about something that happened but your mind sees it as real. That's why Hollywood have made trillions of dollars because they can convince you something on the screen is actually happening. That's why we cry in a movie or that's why we get scared in a movie. Because your mind, your subconscious mind cannot tell the difference between real or imagined. So that's actually happening.

You were just talking about the movie with Bambi, right? When you were little. 'Why is nobody stopping this from happening?' So your mind was not okay with a lot of these things that were happening, and it kept calling you to make a difference. That's what I never understood my wife doing. That before I really researched this, my wife would always be saying, 'Don't you wish this hadn’t have happened?' Or 'Don't you wish we hadn’t done this?' What I didn't understand at the time, because I used to just get like, 'Okay, whatever.' She’d go, 'Yeah, but wouldn't it have been better?' She wanted to get me into this play with her, this exercise.

Lisa: This is going on in her head.

Dr Don: Because it's going on in her head, and she's trying to feel better. So she's creating these scenarios that would make her feel like, 'Well, if I had just done that, gosh that would have been nice, thinking about that life.’ And her mind seeing that going, 'Oh, that would be nice. Well, let's do that. Yes.' So she was what if-ing her life. And it was something that she did very early as a child because that's how she just experienced something traumatic with her father. In her mind, she'd be going, 'Well, what if I had to just left 10 minutes earlier, and I had have escaped that?' Or 'What if I hadn’t done this?' So that's what she was doing. It made no sense to me because I hadn't experienced her life, but that's what she was doing. Her mind was trying to fix something. It’s never tried to hurt you. It was never, at any point, trying to make you feel bad. It was trying to protect you.

Lisa: Its job is to protect you from danger and it sees everything as you sit in the now so it's happening now. I love that analogy of these... What was it? Two-thirds of the car or something and...

Dr Don: So goat and snowflake?

Lisa: Goat and snowflake. And they're going off to a meeting and they're late. And what does the goat says to snowflake or the other way around?

Dr Don: So snowflake, which is your conscious mind, your logical reasonable part of your mind, there's only 5, says the goat 95%, which is your subconscious mind. Who runs into a traffic jam says, 'Oh, we're going to be late. We should have left 15 minutes earlier.' To which goat replies 'Okay, let's do it. Let's leave 15 minutes earlier because that would solve the problem.'

Lisa: That analogy is stuck in my head because you just cannot... It doesn't know that it's too late and you can't hop into the past because it only lives in the now. This is 95% of how our brain operates. That's why we can do things like, I was walking, I was at a strategy meeting in Auckland with my business partner two days ago. We were walking along the road and he suddenly tripped and fell onto the road, right? My subconscious reacted so fast, I grabbed him right, and punched him in the guts. I didn't mean to do that but my subconscious recognised in a millimeter of a second, millionth of a second, that he was falling and I had to stop him. So this is a good side of the survival network: stopping and falling into the traffic or onto the ground.

But the downside of it is that brain is operating only in the now and it can't... Like with my father, it was going 'Save him. Save him. Save him. Why are you not saving him?' Then that's calling for an action, and then my body is agitated. The cortisol level’s up. The adrenaline is up, and I'm trying to do something that's impossible to fix. That can drive you to absolute insanity when that's happening every hour, every day.

Dr Don: Then that's taking a physical toll on your body because it's activating your nervous system, which is now, the cortisol levels are going up, adrenaline, right? So when your mind is in that constant state, it does very little on maintenance. It is not worried about fixing anything; it's worried about escaping or fixing the threat, because that's the number one priority.

Lisa: It doesn't know that it's not happening. I ended up with shingles for two months. I've only just gotten over it a few weeks ago. That's a definite sign of my body's, my immune system is down. Why is it down? Why can that virus that's been sitting dormant in my body for 40-something years suddenly decide now to come out? Because it's just becoming too much. I've spent too long in the fight or flight state and then your immune system is down. This is how we end up really ill.

Dr Don: We get sick. I was just actually having lunch today with a young lady and she's got some immune system issues. And I said, 'Think about it like the US Army, US military is the biggest, strongest military in the world. But if you took that military and you spread it out amongst 50 countries around the world fighting battles, and then somebody attacks the United States, I don't care how big and strong that system was, that military system was. It's going to be weakened when it gets an attack at the homefront.’ So that's what was happening. So all of a sudden, now that virus that it could fight and keep dormant, it lets it pass by because it's like, 'Well, we can let that go. We'll catch that later. Right now, we got to go on the offensive and attack something else.'

Lisa: Yeah, and this is where autoimmune, like your daughter experienced...

Dr Don: About the Crohn's? Yep.

Lisa: Yep. She experienced that at 13 or something ridiculous?

Dr Don: 14, she got it. Then she also got idiopathic pulmonary hemosiderosis which is another lung autoimmune disorder where the iron in the blood would just cause the lungs to release the blood. So her lungs just starts filling up with blood. They had no idea what caused it, that's the idiopathic part of it, and they just basically said, ‘There's no cure. She just needs to live close to a hospital because she'll bleed out if she has another attack.’ Only 1 in 1.2 million people ever get that. So it's very rare so there's no research being done for it. They just basically say, ‘If you get it, live close to a hospital.’ That's the strategy.

Lisa: That's the way of fixing it.

Dr Don: And so both of those are autoimmune, and ever since we've gone to the program, she's hasn’t had a flare-up of either one of those. Because I think our system is directly now able to address those things.

Lisa: Yeah, and can calm down. I think even people who haven't got post-traumatic stress like I've had or whatever, they've still got the day to day grind of life, and the struggle with finances, and the mortgage to be paid, and the kids to feed, and whatever dramas we're all going through. Like we talked about with COVID and this constant change that society is undergoing, and that's going to get faster and more. So this is something that we all need to be wary of: That we're not in this. I've taught and learned a lot about the coping and managing strategies, the breathing techniques, and meditation, the things, and that's what's kept me, probably, going.

Dr Don: Those are great because they're... Again, that's managing it but it's good to have that because you've got to get to the root of it, which is what we were working on. But at the same time, if you don't have any coping, managing skills, life gets very difficult.

Lisa: Yeah, and this is in-the-moment, everyday things that I can do to help manage the stress levels, and this is definitely something you want to talk about as well. So with me, we went through this process, and we did... For starters, you had to get my brain into a relaxed state, and it took quite a long time to get my brainwaves into a different place. So what were we doing there? How does that work with the brainwave stuff?

Dr Don: Well, when we have a traumatic event or memory, that has been stored in a very high-resolution state. So in a beta brainwave state because all your senses are heightened: sight, smell, hearing. So it's recording that and storing it in memory in a very intense state. So if I sat down with you and said, 'Okay, let's get this fixed.' And I just started trying to work directly on that memory, you're still going to be in a very high agitated state because we're going to be starting to talk about this memory. So you're going to be in a beta brainwave state trying to recalibrate a beta stored memory. That's going to be very difficult to do.

So what we do is, and that's why I use the four hours because within that first an hour and a half to two hours, we're basically communicating with the subconscious part of the brain by telling stories, symbols with metaphors, goat and snowflake, all the stories, all the metaphors that are built-in because then your brain moves into an alpha state. When it's in alpha, that's where it does restoration. So it's very prepared to start restoring. And then, if you remember, by the time we got to a couple of the traumatic memories, we only work on them for two or three minutes. Because you're in alpha, and so you've got this higher state of beta, and it recalibrates it into the same state that it's in. So if it's in alpha, it can take a beta memory, reprocess it in alpha, takes all the intensity out of it.

Lisa: So these brain waves, these beta states, just to briefly let people know, so this is speed, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the speed at which the brain waves are coming out. So in beta, like you'd see on ECG or something, it's sort of really fast. I think there's a 40 day...

Dr Don: It's 15 to 30 hertz.

Lisa: 15 to 30 hertz and then if you're in alpha, it's a lot lower than that?

Dr Don: 7 to 14.

Lisa: 7 to 14, and then below that is sort of when you're going into the sleep phase, either deep meditative or asleep.

Dr Don: You're dreaming. Because what it's doing in dreaming is processing. So you're between 4 and 7 hertz. That's why people who have a lot of trauma have trouble sleeping. Because not only is their mind processing what it experienced during the day, it's also taking some of those old files saying, 'Well, okay, let's fix that now. Right. Let's get that.’ That's where your nightmares are coming from. It was trying to get you into a processing to fix that. but it couldn't fix it. So it continues, and then when you go below 4 hertz, you go into delta. Delta is dreamless sleep and that's where the maintenance is getting done.

Lisa: That's the physical maintenance side more than the...

Dr Don: Physical maintenance. Yeah, because that's not processing what it experienced anymore. What it's really now doing is saying, 'Okay, what are the issues that need to be dealt with?' So if you're very relaxed and you've had a very... Like me, right? I played hockey, so I had six concussions, 60 stitches, and never missed a hockey game. The only reason now that I understand I could do that is because I'm getting two or three times more Delta sleep than my teammates were.

Lisa: Physical recuperative sleep.

Dr Don: Yeah, I was getting maximum restorative sleep. So an injury that I would have that could heal in two or three days, my teammates would two or three weeks. Because they were living in these, which I didn't know, a lot of my friends were dealing with trauma: physical, emotional, sexual abuse. I didn't know that was going on with my friends. Nobody talked about it. I didn't see it in their homes, but they were all dealing with that.

Lisa: So they are not able to get... So look, I've noticed since I've been through the program. My sleep is much better, and sometimes I still occasionally dream about Dad. But the positive dreams, if that makes sense. They're more Dad as he as he was in life and I actually think Dad’s come to visit me and say, ‘Hi, give me a hug’ rather than the traumatic last days and hours of his life, which was the ones that were coming in before and calling for that action and stopping me from having that restorative sleep.

I just did a podcast with Dr Kirk Parsley who's a sleep expert, ex-Navy SEAL and a sleep expert that's coming out shortly. Or I think by this time, it will be out, and understanding the importance, the super importance of both the delta and... What is the other one? The theta wave of sleep patterns, and what they do, and why you need both, and what parts of night do what, and just realising...Crikey, anybody who is going through trauma isn't experiencing sleep is actually this vicious cycle downwards. Because then, you've got more of the beta brainwave state, and you've got more of the stresses, and you're much less resilient when you can't sleep. You're going to... have health issues, and brain issues, and memory, and everything's going to go down south, basically.

Dr Don: That's why I didn't understand at the time. They just said 'Well, you're just super healthy. You heal really fast.' They had no other explanation for it. Now, I know exactly why. But it had nothing to do with my genetics. It had to do with my environment.

Lisa: Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years and we need your help to keep it on here. It's been a public service free for everybody, and we want to keep it that way but to do that, we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's patron.lisatamati.com.

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Dr Don: That's, at the time, we just thought it was all, must have been genetics. But I realised now that it was environment as well. So maybe a genetic component to it as well, but then you take that and put that into this very beautiful, nurturing environment, I'm going to sleep processing in beta what I experienced that day and then my mind basically, at that point, is 'What do we need to work on? Not much. Let's go. Let's start now doing some maintenance.' Because it wants to address the top of item stuff first. What is it needs to be taken care of right now? Right? Those are the threats.

Once it gets the threats processed, then it can then start working on the things that are going to be the more long-term maintenance. So then it'll do that. But if it never gets out of that threat mode, it gets out for very little time. Then, if you're getting 30 minutes of delta sleep at night and I'm getting two hours, it's a no-brainer to figure out why I would heal faster.

Lisa: Absolutely, and this is independent of age and things because you've got all that that comes into it as well. Your whole chemistry changes as you get older and all this. There's other compounding issues as it gets more and more important that you get these pieces of the puzzle right.

Do you think that this is what leads to a lot of disease, cancers, and things like that as well? There's probably not one reason. There's a multitude of reasons, but it's definitely one that we can influence. So it's worth looking at it if you've got trauma in your life. People were saying to me 'Oh my God, you don't look good.' When you start hearing that from your friends, your people coming up to you and going, 'I can feel that you're not right.' People that are sensitive to you and know you very well, and you start hearing that over and over, and you start to think, 'Shit, something's got real. Maybe I need to start looking at this.'

Because it's just taking all your energy your way, isn't it, on so many levels. The restorative side and the ability to function in your life, and your work, and all of that, and that, of course, leads into depressive thoughts and that hyper-vigilant state constantly. That's really tiresome rather than being just chill, relax, enjoying life, and being able to... Like one of the things I love in my life is this podcast because I just get into such a flow state when I'm learning from such brilliant...

Dr Don: You're in alpha.

Lisa: I am. I am on it because this is, 'Oh. That’s how that works.' And I just get into this lovely learning in an alpha state with people because I'm just so excited and curious. This is what I need to be doing more of. And less of the, if you'd see me half an hour ago trying to work out the technology. That’s definitely not an alpha state for me.

Dr Don: That's where they said Albert Einstein lived. Albert Einstein lived in alpha brainwave state. That's why information just float for him because there was no stress. He could then pull information very easily to float into. But if you're in a high beta brainwave state, there's too much activity. It has trouble focusing on anything because it's multiple threats on multiple fronts. So when we have a traumatic event, that's how it's being recorded. If you remember, what we talked about was there's a 400 of a millionth of a second gap in between your subconscious mind seeing the information and it going to your consciousness. So in 400 millionths of a second, your subconscious mind has already started a response into an action even though your conscious mind is not even aware of it yet.

Lisa: Yeah. Exactly what I did with rescuing my partner with the glass falling off the thing. I hadn't reached that logically.

Dr Don: It's funny because that's one of the things that I talked about ,which is sort of, give us all a little bit of grace. Because if you've had a lot of trauma, you're going to respond a certain way. How could you not? If your mind’s filtering into all of that, of course you're going to respond with that kind of a response because your mind is prone to go into that action very, very quickly. So we can give ourselves a little bit of grace in understanding that of course, you're going to do that, right? And not beat ourselves up.

Because you know what I talked about with everybody, there's nothing wrong with anybody. There's nothing wrong with anybody's mind. Everybody's mind is fine except you are experiencing something different than I experienced so your mind kept responding to it, and mine didn't have that. So you had multiple... Think about we have a hundred percent of our energy on our phone when we wake up in the morning, right? Fully powered up. You fire the phone up and eight programs open up, right? And mine has one.

Lisa: Yeah. You're just focusing on what you need to.

Dr Don: Then noon comes, and you're having to plug your phone back in because you're out of energy.

Lisa: That's a perfect analogy. You’re just burning the battery. My all is a hundred windows open in the back of my brain that is just processing all these things and so now, I can start to heal. So having gone through this process with you, like you said, we worked on a number of traumatic experiences, and I went through them in my mind. And then you did certain things, made me follow with my eyes and track here, and my eyes did this, and then, we pulled my attention out in the middle of the story and things. That helped me stay in that alpha state, brainwave state as I probably now understand while I'm still reliving the experience. That's sort of taking the colour out of it so that it's now sort of in a black and white folder. Now, it can still be shared, and it hasn't taken away the sadness of...

Dr Don: Because it is sad that these things happen but that's not the response for an action which is that fear or anger, right? That dysregulation of the nervous system. That's what we want to stop, because that is what is going to affect health, enjoyment of life and everything else.

Lisa: Wow, this is so powerful. Yeah, and it's been very, very beneficial for me and helped me deal. For me, it also unfolded. Because after the four hour period with you, I had audiotapes and things that are meditations to do every day for the next 30 days. What were we doing in that phase of the recovery? What were you targeting in those sort of sessions?

Dr Don: So if you remember what we talked about, we have two memory systems. The explicit memory is what we worked on on that four hours. That's detail, events, and experiences. Once we get the mind processing through that, then we have to work on the same memory animals have, which is that associative repetitive memory. So you've built a series of codes on how to respond to threats, and that has come in over repetition and associations. So the audios are designed to start getting you now to build some new neural pathways, some new ways to respond because your mind won't switch a pattern instantly. It can switch a memory instantly, but a pattern is something that got built over a period of time. So it's like a computer. If I'm coding on my computer, I can't take one key to stop that code. I have to write a new code. Yeah, so what we're doing over the 30 days is writing new code.

Lisa: Helping me make new routines and new habits around new neural pathways, basically.

Dr Don: You don't have that explicit memory interfering with the pathways. Because now, it's not constantly pulling you out, going back into an action call. It's basically now able to look at this information and these codes that got built and say, 'Okay, what's a better way? So do we have a better way of doing it?' Or 'Show me that code. Write that code.' If that code looks safer, then your mind will adopt that new code.

Lisa: This is why, I think for me, there was an initial, there was definitely... Like the nightmares stopped, the intrusive every minute, hour triggering stopped, but the process over the time and the next... And I'm still doing a lot of the things and the meditations. It’s reinforcing new habit building. This is where... Like for people dealing with addictions, this is the path for them as well, isn't it?

Dr Don: Yeah. Because I talked about addiction as a code. I don't believe it's a disease. Your mind has found a resource to stop pains, and your subconscious mind is literal. It doesn't see things as good or bad, or right or wrong. It's literal. 'Did that stop the pain? Let's do that.' Because it's trying to protect you. So if you've now repeated it over and over, not only have you stopped the pain, but you've built an association with a substance that is seen as beneficial.

Lisa: Because your brain sees it as medicine when you're taking, I don't know, cocaine or something. It sees it as essential to your life even though you, on a logical level, know that, ‘This is destroying me and it's a bad thing for me.’ Your subconscious goes, 'No, this is a good thing and I need it right now.'

Dr Don: Because it's in the present, when does it want the pain to stop? Now. So it has no ability to see a future or a past. Your subconscious is in the moment. So if you take cocaine, the logical part of your brain goes, 'Oh, this is going to create problems for me. I'm going to become addicted.' Right? Your subconscious goes, ‘Well, the pain stopped. We don't see that as a bad thing.' I always use the analogy: Why did people jump out of the buildings at 911? They weren't jumping to die. They were jumping to live because when would they die? Now, if they jump, would they die? No. They stopped the death. So even jumping, which logically makes no sense, right? But to the subconscious mind, it was going to stop the pain now.

Lisa: Yeah, and even if it was two seconds in the future that they would die, your brain is going...

Dr Don: It doesn't even know what two seconds are.

Lisa: No. It has no time. Isn't it fascinating that we don't have a time memory or understanding in that part of the brain that runs 95% of the ship?

Dr Don: It's like what Albert Einstein said, ‘There's no such thing as time.’ So it's like an animal. If an animal could communicate and you say, 'What time is it?' That would make no sense to an animal. 'What do you mean? It's now.' 'What time is it now?' 'Now. Exactly.'

Lisa: It's a construct that we've made to...

Dr Don: Just to explain a lot of stuff, right? When something happens.

Lisa: Yeah, and this is quite freeing when you think of it. But it does make a heck of a lot of sense. So people are not being destructive when they become drug addicts or addicted to nicotine, or coffee, or chocolate. They're actually trying to stop the pain that they're experiencing in some other place and fix things now. Even though the logical brain... Because the logical brain is such a tiny... Like this is the last part of our evolution, and it's not as fully...

We can do incredible things with it at 5%. We've made the world that we live in, and we're sitting here on Zoom, and we've got incredible powers. But it's all about the imagination, being able to think into the future, into the past, and to make correlations, and to recognise patterns. That's where all our creativity and everything, or not just creativity, but our ability to analyse and put forth stuff into the world is happening. But in actual, we're still like the animals and the rest of it. We're still running at 95%, and that's where we can run into the problems with these two.

Dr Don: Because you got two systems. You got a very advanced system operating within a very primitive system, and it hasn't integrated. It's still integrating, right? So if there's a survival threat, survival will always override reason and logic, because it's designed to protect you. So there's no reason and logic that will come in if there's a survival threat. It's just going to respond the way it knows, does this Google search, 'What do we know about this threat? How do we know to protect ourselves, and we'll go instantly into survival mode.' Again, there's the reason and logic. Why would you jump out of a building, right? If you applied reason and logic, you wouldn't have jumped, right? People will say, 'Well, but they still jumped.' Yes, because reason and logic didn't even come into the process. It was all about survival.

Lisa: Yeah. When the fire is coming in it was either...

Dr Don: 'Am I going to die out now or I'm going to move and not die now?'

Lisa: Yeah, and we're also prone to movement when we're in agitation and in an agitated state, aren't we? Basically, all of the blood and the muscles saying, 'Run, fight, do something. Take action.'

Dr Don: That's why when people get into depression, it's the absence of those emotions.

Lisa: Yeah, and people feel exhaustion.

Dr Don: Yeah. The mind kept calling for an action using anger, for example, but you can't do the action because it's not happening, so it shuts down to protect you and stops calling for any emotion, and that's depression. So the key to get out of depression is actions. It's to get something happening. So in a lot of people who are depressed, what do I tell them to do? 'Start moving. Start exercising. Get out. Start doing things.' Right?

Lisa: So I run ultras.

Dr Don: Exactly. Perfect example, right?

Lisa: Yeah, because I was. I was dealing with a lot of shit in my life at the time when I started doing ultra-marathons. To run was to quiet the pain and to run was to be able to cope and to have that meditative space in order to work through the stuff that was going on in my life. And I know even in my husband's life, when he went through a difficult time, that's when he started running. So running can be a very powerful therapeutic, because there is a movement, and you're actually burning through the cortisol and the adrenaline that's pouring around in your body. Therefore, sitting still and that sort of things was just not an option for me. I had to move. And it explains what, really. It's calling the movement. Like it was a movement because I couldn't fix the other thing.

Dr Don: That's what they'll tell you to do. To get out of depression is to move. What I say is the way to get out of depression is to get your mind to resolve what it’s been asking for.

Lisa: It's going a little deeper.

Dr Don: Yeah. So it's going down and saying, 'Okay, why has it been getting you angry and now, it shut down from the anger?' Because it's been trying to get you in your situation. 'Don't let Dad die. Don't let this happen.' Right? So because you couldn't do it, it just shuts down. Makes perfect sense but when we get to the resolution that there is no action required, there's no need for the depression anymore. The depression will lift because there's no more call for an action.

Lisa: I can feel that in me, that call. Anytime that anything does still pop up, I sort of acknowledge the feeling and say, 'There is no call for action here. This is in the past. This is a memory.' So I do remind myself that when things do still pop up from time to time now, as opposed to hourly. I go, 'Hey, come back into the now. This is the now. That was the then that's calling for an action. This is why you're doing thing.' Even that understanding, that process now actually helps me in that coping sort of state as well.

Dr Don: And that's why I spend so much time on the education because when you understand that the problem is not as big as we make it, there's nothing wrong with you, right? So people will say, 'Well, I got a chemical imbalance.' I go, 'Why?' 'Well, my brain has a chemical imbalance.' 'Yeah, okay. Why?' Right?

Lisa: You're always going deeper.

Dr Don: They're talking about the symptom. I want to get to the issue, not treat the symptom. So if you come in and said, 'Oh, I have a low serotonin.' So they're just going to say, 'Okay. Well, we're going to put you on 5-HTP to boost your serotonin.' But I say, 'Well, why do you have low serotonin? There's got to be a reason. It's got to be a gut imbalance or there's got to be something going on right within your brain.' Right?

Lisa: Yeah, and this is how the whole of the medical world should operate. Like. 'Let's go back as deep as we can.' It's very difficult because you have to be very investigative in your approach. You have to sort of work out and try to work back where is it coming from. It's much easier just to take an antidepressant in the worst case, or 5-HTP in the more gentler case. Because it is the chemicals, but why is the chemical there or lack of chemicals there?

I can tell if it was my husband, he's training for a hundred miler at the moment, and he's got a full-on job as an officer in the fire brigade, and they have lots of night shifts, and they have very traumatic scenes that they experience on a daily sort of thing. I know when his serotonins are dropping, and I know why they're dropping. For him, time alone in nature, taking some time out, doing some self-care, having some extra sleep, doing those things to try to balance things, getting back to baseline is the level that I can work at as a health optimisation coach. But this sort of program is going even a level deeper, and that's really, really powerful.

Dr Don: Then giving you the tools. So first, we fixed what caused the problem, and we give you the tools to be able to stay present.

Lisa: To stay in there. Yeah, to stay on that nice balance.

Dr Don: And teach your brain what it means to go back. There's where your symbol, and statement, and anchor came in. The idea behind that is to be able to get your mind to make that associative, right? 'Oh, what does that mean when I see that symbol?' Or 'I see that, that means we're safe.' Right? Then it goes back into alpha brainwave mode.

Lisa: I do that one every day. In fact, I deliberately go and search out sunsets now whenever I possibly can, job allowing, and so on. I'm trying to get to see a sunset or sunrise, just reverse it because it was my anchor. It was my symbol, if you'd like. Then instantly, that calms me down, if I'm looking at a sunset going down.

Dr Don: It's an automatic. It's a science. Because when your mind gets... So when I was growing up, my mother, my father, my house was my symbol of safety. So as soon as I would come home, my nervous system would completely go back into regulation because it felt safe. So what we're doing is giving you the tools to teach your mind that when it sees that, hears that, or feels that, that you're safe, and it builds the association. There's what the 30 days of associating that sound, that smell, or that touch, and that symbol with ‘I'm safe.’ Then, it just becomes automatic. You don't even have to think about it. That's why the 30 days are powerful.

Lisa: I think, actually, keep practising that ongoing.

Dr Don: I use it for years. I still do it. Mine is a hawk. I see my hawk all the time. It's unbelievable. He literally buzzes my car two or three times a week. No other bird ever does this, and I see him constantly just coming right in front of my car. So a very powerful symbol for me, but it just is my constant reminder that I'm good. I'm fine. There's nothing I need to be doing. When one of those thoughts come in, you go to your symbol, your mind just goes, 'Oh, I don't need to do anything about that.'

Lisa: What were we doing when I grabbed the risks with my anchor? I think you call that, is it the anchor? So when I see a sunset and I grab my rescue, that was my anchor, what were we doing there? Is it sort of an NLP technique?

Dr Don: Well, it's also activating the parietal lobe in your brain, right? Because that part of your brain recognises touch, and then one part of your brain recognises sound, and another one recognises pictures, the occipital lobe, right? So we're basically giving the whole brain: the occipital lobe, temporal lobe, parietal lobe the same message. 'We're safe.' It gets it in different communications because it communicates differently, right? So when your occipital lobe sees your symbol, with your sunset, that's one part of your brain getting the message, then another lobe in your brain gets the message, and then another lobe gets a message. It's like, 'Oh.' We got it from every corner of the brain.

Lisa: So we must be in a safe, good place.

Dr Don: We must be in a safe place so we wouldn't be feeling this or experiencing this. If you remember, we connected it up to these great events in your life as well.

Lisa: Yeah, yes. Yes, that's right. Then, I also, and I don't know if it's right, but I built in the breathing stuff thing too.

Dr Don: Oh, no. That's perfect too because there's lots of oxygen in there. You can't be stressed out if you've got a lot of oxygen. It's impossible.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. It just pushes it down. Like that parasympathetic state. Being able to activate that very, very quickly with a couple of the tools and different breathing techniques that I have. I find myself doing that 10 times a day. Just bring me down, or when I'm swapping from one thing to the other, or just to recalibrate my brain almost, or even in training. So we go to the gym. In between the sets, if I'm doing a really hard workout, I'll do physiological size which is just double intakes and exhales. Long exhale is to reset my body because when you go into high-intensity interval training, you're actually putting your body into a state of stress, and that can actually make your cortisol and your blood sugar go up and everything else. So in between the sets, I often do this physiological side. Whether within a couple of seconds, it's like, 'Reset. Okay, go again. Reset. Let's go again.'

At the end of a really hard session I’ll do sort of box breathing exercises to just take my whole nervous system down. Then, I've given that stimulus of the training and then taking the other is if you do... Especially be doing training late at night, and I'm getting off-topic but... And you're doing cardiovascular training, say, at late night, high-intensity running or something that, that can actually stop sleeping because you're in that heightened state of stress.

Dr Don: Yes. You're not safe.

Lisa: Yeah. You're not safe and you need to bring it down and bring that parasympathetic state in. Because at the bottom of it is this autonomic nervous system branch of parasympathetic versus sympathetic state and we want to be more than that sympathetic. I'm always constantly in the sympathetic, sorry, and not the parasympathetic. You've taken me on using this technique to be able to bring me down, basically, very quickly.

Dr Don: Yeah. Because that vagus nerve is going to send a message that we have oxygen. That tells the brain that if there's lots of oxygen, we couldn't possibly be in danger. Because if you're in danger, you'd be running. If you're running, you wouldn't have much oxygen, which would then remind the brain to keep pumping because we're still in danger. That's literally where a panic attack comes in. It's that the mind is looping through something even though there's no threat.

My wife really taught me this is because every once in a while, she’d just go, ‘Huh.’ I go 'What?' 'I just wasn't breathing.' She would literally stop breathing because she was so tense. That made no sense. 'Well, why would you not be breathing?' She’d go, 'I don't know. I just stopped.' Because she was so tense, and her mind was looping. Then all of a sudden, now the oxygen, CO2 level changes, right? Then the brain gets a message that we're running low on oxygen so then the vagus nerve send in a message like, 'Breathe!' But again, that's all interpreted by the brain as threats.

Lisa: Yeah, and if you find yourself doing a lot of sighing or a lot of that type of thing and you've actually stopped breathing, then you need to retrain those breathing systems and ideally, nasal breathing. Because again, there's a lot of good reasons why the nose or going through the nasal passage instead of breathing with the mouth it's very, very beneficial as well. It's an instant thing and when we constantly... Like we're focused on our emails, and we are like 'Oh, the phone call is coming in,' and we just forget to breathe or we overbreathe and we go [imitates hyperventilating].

Dr Don: Hyperventilate, yeah.

Lisa: That just sends body, 'Panic, panic, panic, we're in panic mode,' and off you go into that whole cascade of panic situations. Dr Don, we've gone all over the place today. It's been a brilliant... I love talking to you. It's just so fascinating. It's reminding me again of some of the things that I've got to keep doing that and gives people listening some tools.

But where can people actually come to see you and actually go through the program that I've been through? I highly recommend you do this. If you're dealing with some serious, especially dealing with serious addiction, or trauma, or anything that's really stuffing up your life, you need to go through this program with Dr Don. There are a couple of different options for people. So where can they find you and how best to reach out to you?

Dr Don: You can come to our site which is... We have a website but we also have an easier way to get there which is Gettipp. The program is called Tipps so gettipp.com. And if you come to gettipp.com, then you'll be able to see all the information. You can watch some of the testimonials of people who have been on the site that have gone through the program.

Lisa: Including me.

Dr Don: Including you. Yep, awesome, and that's what we're looking for. Because you may hear one story, and that doesn't resonate with you but then you hear somebody else. These are just people who have experienced what you're experiencing, and everybody has different things in their lifetime. So when you hear somebody else and you go, 'Oh, that's me.' That's why I laugh at this because when I first met my wife, she swore me to secrecy. I could never tell anybody about her childhood and now, everybody knows about her childhood.

Lisa: That's brilliant because it takes the power out of the whole damn thing, and it's helping people.

Dr Don: That's what I said. I always said to her, 'I really believe your story is going to help people.' She was 'No, no. I'll never be able to stand up and talk about it.' Now, she can completely talk about it.

Lisa: She’s completely healed.

Dr Don: Because her system doesn't get activated. Before, if I had said to her, 'Oh, tell this person about what happened to you as a child,' she'd be sobbing. She couldn't even get it out of her mouth because her mind would be looping through. In order to start talking about it, she'd have to go into memory. When she goes into memory, her nervous system would get activated, and she'd go into a fight stage. Who could stop that?

Lisa: You can tell me, just the conversation we've had today, and I've been talking about Dad, and all that traumatic stuff that I went through, not once did I bawl my eyes out today, which I usually would have. Not to say that I'll never cry over Dad again because I probably will, but it will be not being instantly triggered in inappropriate situations. It will be when I want to think about my dad in my time, in my way, and it will be mixed of love and gratitude in the memory rather than the trauma. And that's gold. So Dr Don, thank you. So gettipps.com.

Dr Don: You have to see this. I just lost it. I have a ball. Five balls on my desk, I just throw them.

Lisa: You need Siri. You need Siri. 'Hey Siri, turn the rocks tape on.'

Dr Don: It's just motion activated because I haven't been moving. So even for performance. Because again, we'll be always built on performance more than just trauma. Because I say again, nothing's wrong with you. So the idea is when we get these traumatic events and experiences out of the loop, then your performance can go up. So that's really the key.

Lisa: So high-performing executives, athletes who are wanting to perform at the top of their game and are being drained by whatever, this is a program for them. So the actual name of your institute is The Inspired Performance Institute rather than just The Trauma Institute or something.

Dr Don: So yeah, because what's interfering with you reaching that next level of performance? As you know, as a world-class athlete, the edge between winning and second place is small, but if you get that little edge... That's really what this is all about is to give you that edge so that you can perform at your highest level.

Lisa: Yeah, this is fantastic for athletes. Absolutely. And executives as well who are high-level, high-functioning people who have to be on the ball all the time. This can be really powerful so it's not just draining energy. I know that I've been running on a battery of less than 30% for the last year, for sure. Now, I can start to rebuild my health and it's going to take a little bit of time probably in my... All of that sort of aspects. But now, I'm on the right track, and getting my energy back, and feeling a lot better because this looping isn't happening, and I'm not in that constant state of fight or flight.

Dr Don, much, much gratitude to you for your work, what you've done, and how you've developed this program, for taking me through it. I'm very, very, very grateful. and highly recommend that anyone who was dealing with stuff like this or wants high performance, go and check gettipp.com or theinspiredperformanceinstitute.com is also the full website. Thank you, Dr Don and I hope you'll be home shortly.

Dr Don: I absolutely love it. Loved talking to you so anytime you want me back, I'll be back.

Lisa: Absolutely. Awesome. Thanks, Dr Don.

Dr Don: Thanks.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Lisa interviews one of her athletes from our Running Hot Coaching Tribe, Matt Scrafton. Matt joined Running Hot with the goal to run a 100km trail race at Taupo in New Zealand. Previously he had successfully run a couple of 50km events and really wanted to push himself but as a Dad, husband and having a full on career he wanted to do this challenge without breaking himself. Matt shares his triumphs and struggles on his road to 100km glory in this no holds barred honest and raw account of what it takes to run 100km when you have a full on life and you don't have the luxury of being a full time athlete or having all the talent of a Scott Jurek or Dean Karnazes. Many will relate and find inspiration in this story. Matt describes himself as “An incurable dreamer. An unapologetic introvert. A Husband and father. Just a guy who loves life and running long distances. Since moving to New Zealand 14 years ago, Matt has swapped the rugby boots for endurance sport. He’s completed Coast to Coast, cycling round Taupo and and a few ultra races.” You can follow Matt on instagram at https://www.instagram.com/mattscrafton/ We would like to thank our sponsors

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

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Transcript of interview:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by LisaTamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you back again. I really appreciate your naughty checking in on the show every week. Today. We've got a little something special for you. I've got actually one of our athletes it running hot coaching has agreed to come on and share his story. So it's a little bit of a debrief, a little bit of a coaching call. Hopefully you guys will pick up some gems of wisdom. We're gonna, she's gonna. She has insights and the journey that he went all to get to a hundred K, which was his ultimate race recently. So welcome to the show Matt Scrafton how are you? Morning, I'm good. How are you? Very, very good. So I met his sitting in Wellington. You got to sunny day down there.

Speaker 3: (00:56)
Yeah, it's beautiful and it's, there's no wind for once. So yeah, really nice.

Speaker 2: (01:01)
That's unusual. So I met let's step back at the beginning. So tell us a little bit about yourself, where you come from and then we'll get into the running side of it.

Speaker 3: (01:13)
Alrighty, Um so I'm British. And I've be, I moved to New Zealand in 2005 where I met my now wife. So I grew up in, in the UK and political Brighton by the sea. And we live in the mighty Waikato in Cambridge and we've been all over the place. You know, Alton, Wellington, Melbourne, but Cambridge is home and some my wife and I have a baby girl, Darcy's four, and we have a crazy eight months old poodle, Daisy. So life is pretty full. But yeah, no, I've been, I'm, I found running probably about six or seven years ago. I've been doing endurance sports or Madi sports, probably longer. But as time went on, it got harder to balance all three disciplines. And then I decided that I really wanted to do something that had an endurance element to it and trail running or running was the easiest, you know, put on your shoes, get out the door and go.

Speaker 3: (02:07)
So yeah, so I got into sort of trail running proper about six or seven years ago and set myself the goal as I kind of do with, with life of, of running a 50. And and we were living in Melbourne at the time and the North face 50 was a, an annual event in may of each year around the blue mountains. It's just outside of Sydney. Gorgeous rice. Yeah. And so I spent probably about a year building up for that with a few feeder events. But the big goal of running the 50 yeah. And did that eight hours, 39. And that was really tough. It was quite a hard race. But yeah, I was surprised that what I now understand to be that mental state that you there are so important to an athlete. That went, that race went really well mentally for me.

Speaker 3: (03:02)
So I thought, yep, this is definitely not a one off. So a couple of months later, Darcy arrived and, and life changed. So took a while. Yeah. Yeah. It took a while to find that, that rhythm. We moved back to New Zealand and I then locked in the terror wearer this year, actually, 2019 and so spent it about, you know, another year building up for that. But I was kind of, yeah, so doing the, I'm doing the 50, I did have aspirations to run further, but my wife said, no, no, get another 50 under your belt before you, before you go further. You know, that it definitely wasn't a one off. So yeah, spent about a year building up for the 50 and did that in I think it's February of this year. So came home in about seven hours and yeah, it was just a really hot day.

Speaker 3: (03:55)
And I thought there's no way I'm running and as our ultra in the middle of summer, it's just crazy times. Which probably discounts the marathon disabler but there we go. But the it was, it was pretty cool race fantastic atmosphere and some really great support crew and aid station folk that rock up and make it a really memorable day. And then I woke up, I got home, woke up the next day and I had this, this kind of overwhelming feeling that it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a sense of mission accomplished. I had done that, but there was more. And I didn't quite know what it looked like. So before everyone else got up, I was looking online for big events or things to do, you know, huge running goals to chase and telco was on in October, so it was always,

Speaker 2: (04:45)
Let's back up a little bit. So you ran 50 Ks, paid him some seven hours or something and the tank wasn't in thi the next day. Like most people get to the finish line on any race and go, never again. Well that's it. Unless a very experienced one or something, they know that that's, that's going to be temporary. But you in the very next day started looking online. Usually it takes at least five days.

Speaker 3: (05:11)
Yeah, no, I think I'm really like goal-orientated I I think I, you know, you, we do what we do during the hours of nine to five to make ends meet and pay the bills, et cetera. But running is I've come to learn that it's a, my thing, it gives me that time and space. And it's, you have a, there's a fantastic mental feeling that goes with running. And if you marry that for me with huge, big, hairy audacious goals it gives me that balance. And if I don't have that big hairy audacious goal on the horizon or near, then I start, I start to struggle. Yeah. And my life is a bit out of balance. So I think it was physically I was, I was a bit poked, you know, my legs hurt and you know, I had a few tight muscle groups.

Speaker 3: (06:09)
But there was definitely a sense of there's more in the tank. And for me it was a case of you've got this base, you've legs, you've come through, okay, yeah, they're gonna hurt, but whose legs wouldn't after running 50 a day and let's use that base as a launching pad for the next big hairy audacious goal. And the counsel or guidance from my, from my wife was find a 70 or 80 K wise woman. This lady, she is, yeah, very, very wise. She's my CEO, my CFO and everything else. But to ignore that, no, she's a lovely lady. See no, I, I did ignore it and as I tend to do with some guidance and I thought, no, let's go a hundred now. Let's lock it in because there was nothing else on the horizon that was closer and telcos on our doorstep and yeah, it was on. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (07:05)
Well, so Topo 100 K for people who, let's see, from overseas. So taco is universal part of the country in the North Island of New Zealand, and I have a hundred K of the year, which is, can be a muddy, muddy, and hilly fee. So you signed up for that already straight after, straight out of the gate after Tyler WEDA. And what happened then?

Speaker 3: (07:28)
Literally I text my brother in law and said, what are you doing on the 12th of October? I have a deal for you. And I, then you came back and said, yep, nothing. What have you got in mind? I said, Oh, would you like to be my support crew for 'em a hundred K? It's like, are you sure? It's crazy idea, but let's do it. When Shelly and Darcy woke up, I kinda very casually dropped in conversation and yeah, it, you know, I gave myself a good few weeks to recover. Possibly from what I've learned from Neil subsequent after the a hundred possibly digging it myself long enough to recover which then is how I, I met you Lisa. So yeah, so I started training and, and literally followed the same sort of process and build up that I'd been doing for the 50, but obviously slightly longer distances for the a hundred. And I think it was around may or June of this year that I started to realize that what had got me through the 50 wasn't necessarily gonna get me through the a hundred. And that's when I, yeah, that's when the world changed.

Speaker 2: (08:35)
And that's when you found us.

Speaker 3: (08:37)
Yeah. So I was looking for not only coaching but a community that I could connect with. Cause I think when we run, we do a lot of this stuff in isolation. And I think I was looking for more than just a frequent, frequent contact the coach. I wanted to understand how everyone else was doing the trials and tribulations irrespective of distance and just share that knowledge. And yeah, I did my research and I think you and I had a phone call and yeah, gave it a go and yeah. Jumped on board

Speaker 2: (09:11)
And yeah, so we were, we were start the heavy onboard and we've now got this 100 K goal. And you said, I think it's what's important is a lot of people stand out on their own and they, they, they do fine for a little while. And then you start to either run into injuries or you go weeks bigger or you start to have troubles in some way, shape or form. I begin a bit burned out, maybe lose your motivation. And that is some people often come to us and say, Oh, I need a bit of structure. And it's an, it's not like probably 90% of people who join us have hit the wall in some way or hit a big, big, big scary goal that they know they need to take a little bit more seriously. So it's one or the other. Or they're just starting out that that's another thing and they want some really good guidance and structure. So what was the main difference like when you came to running hot coaching and jumped into our planes, what was the major difference that you found campaign to say and screeching off the internet?

Speaker 3: (10:17)
Yeah. So I think the catalyst for looking beyond our training in isolation on my own was I wanted a more rounded approach to the a hundred. I realized that I wasn't spending enough time on core strength for example. And I also knew that my own knowledge and experience wasn't enough and that there were people out there who had years of experience and I'd be daft not to tap into that. So recognizing that I had my own limitations. So from a knowledge perspective and actually I, the biggest thing for me is that I was starting to get a sense that I wasn't approaching my long runs fresh. Yup. So I was going into the weekend quite fatigued and I wanted a more, I wanted to know if there was a way to balance training for a hundred so that you didn't feel you know, shot all the time and fatigued.

Speaker 3: (11:11)
So that was the catalyst. And and then the conversation with yourself and then actually working with Neil, it's on pick the a hundred K plan. I was like, wow, the longest run in the week, mid week is actually shorter than my current longest midweek run. So automatically the, I'm going to start feeling a little bit fresher. Yeah. And then I started getting actually the first core strength session I did, I probably couldn't walk proper for about a day or two. I remember doing the lunges and I was like, Oh wow, I'm going to, yeah, this is, there's a reason why I'm doing this.

Speaker 2: (11:46)
Oh, that's fine. So, and like [inaudible] that is a key thing. Like you don't know what, you don't sometimes how weak you've gotten to, like when you run, it's a catabolic exercise. So it starts at eight, you eat away at your muscles. And so if you're not counteracting that with strength training, with a, also with your mobility and for, for different reasons then over time you're going to get weaker and more flacid than the, in the, in the core for example, you'll have strong leaks, but that's what, you know, run isn't going to have strong links obviously, but the rest of you will, will suffer from. And that's when things can come unstuck as well, especially if you're not 20 anymore, you know, you need to start thinking about muscle max loss, which is, which we sort of lose around 200 grams a year after the age of 40 on average. So let's say they say so we want to be counteracting that as well as the fact that you are in a catabolic sport that is actually eating away at you and you want to be able to maintain. So, okay. You started into the strength program is think, well this is, this is different. Yeah. And how, how, how was it for you when the mileage, like a lot of people think, okay, I've gone from 50 to a hundred, I have to double the mileage. Doesn't work, does it?

Speaker 3: (13:00)
Absolutely not. No. So the a hundred, the leap from 50 to a hundred was for me, surprisingly manageable. I'm working in within the a hundred K plan that you guys gave me. So midweek run automatically shorter. So there's some gains there. And actually the, the longest run was actually comparable to my 50 K. Yeah. And I think we added maybe another hour onto it just because I was questioning, well, if I'm going to take 15 or 14 hours, then you know, do I need to run a little bit longer than what I've been doing? 50. And then it was like, you know, if you want to run a little bit longer, that's okay. But there isn't a one size fits all. You've got to just make it work for you.

Speaker 2: (13:42)
Yeah. Yup. And this is a, the thing that's like, I've said to people sometimes when they think, how the hell am I going to double that? And, and I'm not actually doubling the distance and I say to them like, when I'm running or set of 200 K race or two 50K race, I don't double it again, because you can't double it. You can't keep doubling that. You're training distance to suit your and with, we've come from, you know, most people have come from maybe a marathon,udistance training. We are, you know, from half marathon, two marathon, you steeping up your mileage a lot more and your long run does get a lot bigger and you're doing sort of three quarters, you know, 32, 33 K run as your longer time before Marisol. So people extrapolate that and think that that's what happens when you're doing a 200. Okay. And it isn't, you can't, you cannot physically recover from training intents on this. You kept choking or somewhat [inaudible].

Speaker 2: (14:39)
But generally you can't recover. And that's where the wheels start to come off. People if they start to try to do this high mileage, so we're not high mileage coaches. And we get a lot of people coming to us who've come from high mileage coaches and that approach would work at the beginning and it will work when you're younger. When you've got kids in careers and you're getting a little bit older, they had approached that to unravel. If you're a lady, you can often start getting hormone problems as well. And so both sixes adrenal exhaustion is on the horizon too. So those are things that we always very aware of and you're trying to keep you from tipping over there. It's a very fine line to walk sometimes. Okay. So walk us through the next part of the process.

Speaker 3: (15:23)
So I think we're just on that around the longest run. So I training was going really well. You know, mobilization work, strength work, and then I got through what I turned my apex weekend, the longest run weekend. Yep. And I run it as per the schedule where I may be through one half an hour for mental confidence and yeah, it's about 43 K I think in total. Five and a half hours in the Hills. Yeah. And then that the following week is when it all came crashing down, fell off. The wheels did come off big time. Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm

Speaker 2: (16:03)
You run into an injury problem.

Speaker 3: (16:05)
I did. I had basically an absolute awful pain sensation in my left ankle tendonitis. They turned out and that, yeah, that happened literally on the Wednesday after my long run. I could feel it. You know, in the sort of the Tuesday morning and then I went for another run on the Wednesday, which I shouldn't have done. And it was hurting like never, like no other pain I'd had before. So I knew something wasn't quite right. And managed to get to see my awesome physio in Cambridge and and she said, yeah, you've got some, some tendonitis. And we basically worked up a plan where I would, and I, I think at that point, if I don't take it back a step, there was a day, I think it was a Thursday where I was sitting in my office in Cambridge and I was literally in tears because I thought, how am I, how am I going to get to the start line, let alone the finish line and put all this effort in. And you know, I spoke about the balance or the need to have balance in professional life and personal life. Suddenly I could see the Seesaw completely, you know, mounted as broken for overseas friends. And I I was just learning bits because I thought, I can't run. How the, what am I going to do? I can't walk this thing. So I think I flipped you guys a note and said, how do I typo?

Speaker 2: (17:35)
You were in immediately black spice and you, you reached out and I could tell from the, you know, you asking about specifically about the, the injury I think, which was part of the same, but the what, what, where I jumped in was more the, the meaningful side of it because you were, you were taking the deep dive. So when you've put your heart and soul into something massive and then it starts to unravel and then you're thinking you're fearing not being, because it's not along to the race now that you're not going to get there. And every decision that you're missing in this is very, you know, normal things that though it still starts crashing down around your ears. So how did they, so I, I jumped on a call with you and we started to work through some of the, the mental stuff. How did that help you?

Speaker 3: (18:18)
Yeah, it was, it was really interesting cause I, I went straight to the physical side. So how do I taper? How do I still do these sessions? You know, I've got an internal session tomorrow. How do I run that with an ankle that I can't run them? And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. Take a step back here. This is you, you, I think you actually said you've got this your legs have got all the miles they need to do to do the a hundred is now about the upstairs. How do you mentally stay, stay in the fight to get yourself to the start line and through the race. And I was, I was actually quite taken aback about that because I thought, well, I'm missing all these sessions or I'm going to be missing all these sessions.

Speaker 3: (18:59)
And I'm generally fairly confident person, but I guess susceptible to blows from life as, as anyone is. Yeah. And I couldn't, I wasn't listening to you, I think at first. And then you followed up in an email and it, I actually, it took me three or four attempts to reread what you'd written. And then we communicated over the next 48 hours. And you said over the weekend, I want you to read a book if you can. And the book is the biology of belief. Yeah. Bruce Lipton. Yeah. And it was a little too it took me way beyond my, my scoring. Yeah. School level science around biology, but it was the last section that really knitted it all together, which is about how your perception and beliefs influence your physiology or can influence your physiology. And I think that's when the penny dropped for me that this is all about the mind going into these next three and a half weeks.

Speaker 2: (20:06)
Yup. And that's the key point because the situations happen, the injuries happen.

Speaker 3: (20:12)
Yup.

Speaker 2: (20:13)
What we've got, we can, we can, the, the, the, the thing that you're going to do wrong is to keep training over that injury and to try and fight through it when you've got a rise at the other rains. So the panic is that I'm not going to be fit enough when the reality is if you, if you get through 70, 80% of your total training malls, you're going to be fine. And I, and as a coach, you don't, you, you trying to get your people, I'm a bit more than that, but if something happens, you, you will get there. The best race I've ever had in my life, one of the most amazing races put that way, let have, was that one that I did in the Himalaya's, which I shared with you, that 222 K rice. So of the two highest mountain passes and in the world mudroom bubble passes and I ripped the ligaments off my league team weeks out from the rice.

Speaker 2: (21:01)
I couldn't run for seven weeks and I had a hypoxic brain concussion from doing altitude training. So I didn't have enough oxygen in my body. So of course all these evictions and so on. Some of the listeners would have heard this story, but eh, when I, and I was either I'm going to pull out or I'm going to carry on. And I decided I'm carrying on because I'm put in so much. If it as you know, the effort that goes into training for something like this, we need alone the sponsorship, the foam, the documentary that, you know, the whole works just made that I couldn't just pull out. And so I had to try and face it with only a couple of weeks training at the end of that seven week. So not being able to train on my foot. So I did cross train, I didn't want to cook with my body and I spent the rest of that time on my mindset.

Speaker 2: (21:44)
And when I got to the stat line, my body was actually in better shape than if I'd smashed it right till the end because I'd actually given my, my body hadn't had a recipe years putting it, you know, mildly. And so this actually was the best thing that could've happened and it was fit. And I did the 222K race mind do like a really hard, tough, long at altitude, extremely dangerous race and, and killed it, you know, was, was briefly had, I've got documentary if anyone was walked,uI'm slightly simplifying it, but the point was you didn't need to do every one of those training sessions that you think you need to do. And when you don't have the choice, it's either you change your mindset to the whole thing and you stay on board with it and you better, or you give up and you pull out or you keep trying and you and yourself even more, and then you might be out for six months, you know?

Speaker 3: (22:37)
Yeah. And I think the, the biggest thing as human beings, we often always easy to do, is to, is to not learn from the mistakes as we go through life. You know, to the definition of madness is to repeat the same action and keep expecting the same or different outcome. Okay. And, yeah. So, so I think you know, when I spoke to you in that scenario that you described around that, that race, you said to me, the one thing you did do was you asked your support crew and those around you on that day or leading up to the event and through it to be 100% positive that you didn't want any negativity around you. So when I was going through this over that weekend I said to my wife, you know, do I pull out? She said, well, you can't because you, there's no point.

Speaker 3: (23:20)
You missed the withdrawal date. Yup. No, you might as well just take each day as it comes, see where you are. We're going to go down, everyone's booked in to come down and stay, et cetera. So that's just do it and just see what happens. My wife is a Kiwi. She's her world view is inherently positive. I'm, I'm British and naturally cynical about most things in life. So glass half full glass half, we kind of marry each other out. But yeah, so, so I I got through that weekend and I jumped in the pool and on the bike and I was having physio, physio sessions and I wasn't running and it was a really weird sensation. Weight in the sense I felt like I was getting behind. So that's when I, little things like, you know, I did that accountability mirror exercise where I took post-its and wrote down in a motivational statements or words on a mirror and I took a wee picture and I know it's a silly thing I did just to hold myself accountable going through the next three and a half weeks to do towel pose.

Speaker 2: (24:28)
And that is not silly. That is really, really good. Anything, any positivity that you can surround yourself with is, is the mental game, is everything in ultra?

Speaker 3: (24:37)
Oh, it is totally. And this is the biggest, you know, you do these events in life and I've, the one thing I've learnt this time round is that it is all mental. It is a hundred. I mean you're also, you're palsy, you know, needs to be conditioned. [inaudible]

Speaker 2: (24:52)
Healthy and you need my foot. But the rest is in your head. And Oh man, I'll say next weights, you know, finish races that they shouldn't have been running cause they went far enough to do it, but mentally they were strong enough to get through it. We don't recommend doing that because you're going to scroll your body in the long run, but it is about this up here. How much, how much pain can you suffer, how much can you overcome, how much, what's your why and how big is that? Why and how strong is that? Why you really, really want this? And then you find ways around obstacles. And, and I think having seen what I've seen in other athletes, I've seen people with incredibly bad injuries survive races. I've seen you know, people who are blind run across the Sahara. And I've seen this before. People with, with one leg run across your belly. And a whole bunch of people who carry kids who had cerebral palsy is to give them a cross them a mouth on the Saturdays, you know incredible stories. People who really believed in saving the rhinoceroses and addresses the rhinoceros the entire time across the Sahara. You know, absolutely crazy things that physically shouldn't be now able to do. But they did.

Speaker 3: (26:05)
But because of their why and their purpose, they did. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: (26:08)
In a very, very strong why. And there has to be the, the ultimate. OK. So you, you started to tune your mindset around, so this positivity and surrounding yourself with positive people and your wife's telling you, you could, you know, you got this, we started, we just starting and that is the thing. Get to the stat line, start, see what happens.

Speaker 3: (26:24)
Yeah. And I think the biggest thing they have along the way, I was training with a guy it lives in Oakland and we've done a few training runs together and I sent him a text set, ah, you know, with start together, but we'll be finishing separately. I don't know if I'm going to finish in my current state. And he phoned me and he, he's a really happy go lucky guy, positive outlook. He said, no, no, we will walk this out together if we have to. And I thought, wow, okay. That's, that's pretty cool. So yeah.

Speaker 2: (26:58)
Oh yeah. This guy gives us his name. Give them a shout out.

Speaker 3: (27:01)
Johnny. Johnny, Denise. Yeah. Nice. Good guy. So yeah, so Johnny and I were, we ended up training separately of those last couple of weeks. And I was trying not to look at Strava and you know, get envy about long runs that he was putting in. And I was in the poll in my Emma Speedos. It wasn't good. But anyway yeah, no, so sorry, go on. Yeah, it worked. It worked. Yeah. So we got through that through those last few weeks. I'm in the pool and on the bike and having some fun on the mountain bike. And actually it was really nice just to get out in the Hills and just turn around. And then I remembered actually coming down one single track in, in Cambridge that I was actually doing a race the following weekend, so I should probably take it easy and not go too fast in case it came off. But yeah, no. So I, I started just to test the run walk literally the Monday before the race on the Saturday and that was the first time I'd got back on my feet and it was a really tentative run walk. And then I did another one the next day. And then the final one I think was on the Wednesday and no reactions from the ankle. So I thought, well, yeah, big, big mental hurdle cleared. You know, we're locked in to do this and we're going to do it. And yeah.

Speaker 2: (28:18)
And that's pretty like, it's pretty ballsy to be fair. You know, like it is hard when you're facing a hundred K and you haven't been able to try and fill the last few weeks and you're in the last phone a week, people before the race and you're like, can I even walk, run, walk, run in a couple of days you can change it. We'll be trying this out. And you're standing on the start line and said, and the morning it a hundred K, you know, it takes a lot of mental strength. So well done. Thank you Chuck it all in.

Speaker 3: (28:44)
No, definitely not. And I think at that point even I think my physio had said to me you are doing this, you can do this. And that you will break, you will not break anything in your ankle if you do this. And it hurts. It's just, it's not just ligaments, tendons, just tendons and they will recover. And I think that hearing that actually, I was like, okay, so if my body hurts, it's going to have to live with it and my mind is going to tell it. And that was the process I was going through. I think I spoke to you in the buildup and you said to me that this could be the body's way of trying to tell your mind that this isn't a great thing to do. Let's just sit back and watch some Netflix on the Saturday.

Speaker 2: (29:20)
Yes. Let's dive into that for a sec. The, in my experience in nearly every big race that I've done and the week before or two weeks before, something goes wrong on my body. Like I get sick, I'll get a cold, I get the flu, I get something, some, some single play out. And I, and I S I think it's the subconscious we aiming already actually body because it knows that you've got this big race coming up and it's trying to stop you. We'll throw everything at you. Just stop you.

Speaker 3: (29:50)
Yep. And that book I mentioned earlier yeah, a lot of it was about using your conscious mind, so not drifting off into unconscious thinking, focusing on the now using your conscious mind. And there's a lot more power in, in, in potential, in the using your conscious mind rather than the subconscious mind. So if you play it forward, then my subconscious was trying to tell me not to do the race because it's going to be tough. It's going to hurt. But my conscious mind was going, no, you've got this, you can do this. It's going to hurt, but it's gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah. We are doing this. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So we got through that last week and you're headed off to Topo and it was just a really interesting segue the night before Johnny and I, we've got a big house in our families came down and my, my mother and father who I love them to bits and my father in law was chatting away with Johnny who was really laid back and Johnny was having a, just the odd beer, one beer before the race.

Speaker 3: (30:55)
And I'm quite serious about my prep. I was not talking to anyone. I was going through my mental checklist and all that stuff. And my father in law said to me, man, why aren't you more like Johnny lay back and relax? I was just like, nah, we're all different. You know, everyone's got a little different around different ways of preparing. So yeah. So there's nothing wrong.

Speaker 2: (31:17)
And by the way, cause I mean, I talked to me the night before you know, I'm in the zone, you're in the zone and, but there are people who are just totally chilled out and whatever happens happens when that, the different personality types, unless I wasn't really be confused because everyone has their own way of preparing for such a battle because it is going into Epic bed already.

Speaker 3: (31:37)
Yeah. I think physically I'd appreciated the difference prior to this race around ultras and running and athletes, you know, we all come from different shapes and walks of life, but mentally as well, I was seeing some really interesting sides of people and athletes. So yeah. So yeah, John and I were up the next day about I think four o'clock got to the start line half five. It was absolutely freezing and telco. And I actually, I've never done this before, but I fell asleep again in the car on the way to the style line is about a 40 minute journey. But for me it was a sign of just how relaxed I was and whatever was going to want to fold was going to one fold, but it was going to do so in a way that was going to have a positive outcome. I was, I was quite relaxed about it. Which was really bizarre. So

Speaker 2: (32:27)
Thanks. Turn around to the T is three weeks before and the

Speaker 3: (32:31)
Oh, chalk and cheese. Yeah. Chalk and cheese. Yeah. I yeah, so there's, so we got going and Johnny had forgotten his headlight as usual, so I let us out and I said to John, look, we're going to run, run what I call fifteens, which is you run 10 minutes and maybe walk for five minutes. And I think I said to Johnny that it's going to be the pattern for me throughout the race. And he was like, yep, sweet. I'll run with you would walk this together. You just set the pace you, you'd be mr timekeeper. And we go so we we started off and are we running really comfortably? I think we ran the first 20 miles you know, I don't know, roundabout, just under four hours or something. Yeah. and at one point we were, Johnny was leading in and we were running up the Hill, then we were running down a Hill and he said, Oh, I probably ran that a bit hard.

Speaker 3: (33:21)
How's that? Yep. So but we were trying not to get too excited and carried away with ourselves. So to got to that first checkpoint, all good. And then I think it, it started to hit home around the, you know, you get into the race and we were running this sort of 15 thing where you run 10 and walk five. And I had this little checklist in my head where I'd come up with four things to think about on a rotation deliberately so that I could focus on the now using my conscious mind. Does that make sense? Yup. Yup. Yeah. So I, I'd ran through this little cycle where I'd go you know, what's my effort? Am I running comfortably? Am I running too fast or too slow check. My nutrition you know, have I eaten in the last half an hour? Have I taken some water in fuel?

Speaker 2: (34:11)
It's called association. I call that association where you're associating, you're actually checking in with your body. Yeah. And then another strategy, which is just association, when you're in pain that you're actually go off and do your heavy place and might be visualizing, may swimming with whales or something like that, that I'm in somewhere else or I'm renovating my house or I'm doing something like that and I'm taking my mind somewhere else. So these two strategies are really, really good to open to your practice.

Speaker 3: (34:37)
So now I know that I was doing the disassociation thing around the ADK Mark, but the yeah, so I was, and the other thing I deliberately, I was checking, you know, am I in touch with my environment? Can I feel with my feet and in whatever, my body, the physical environment, just to make sure that I was using my conscious mind. And I would go through this little checklist again, every 20 minutes or so. And so we got through the first 20 miles, it felt quite, quite quickly. And we hit the farm lands, which is a really monotonous physical environment, more walking or hiking than it is running. And it's not fun. It's not inspiring. But we got through that, hit the first major aid station, I think it was around the 50 K Mark. And I said to Johnny I'm now running into territory unknown territory from a distance perspective, even though I've technically run longer time on feet, this is going to be your ground. Yeah. so they'll talk about the different approaches. Johnny and I Johnny got to that big ice station and he had a white bike fritter. And I was like, no, I cannot stand that stuff.

Speaker 3: (35:53)
So yeah, so I, as, as we left the ice station, my wife said, how you feeling? And I said, honey, I'm really suffering. She said, well, you're halfway. This is all upstairs now. I see the neck see you at 75 K or whatever it was. I was like, Holy moly. So here we go. I'm sorry. It literally felt like I was stepping off an area called comfort and known into the unknown and uncomfortable, and this is going to hurt. It's gonna hurt. And this is where growth happens. Yeah. Yeah. So and we were running together, but we were always about, I don't know, three or four meters apart just because that's how you find yourself. And I think I got to about 65 K in Kinlock or something like that. And I said, I was crying behind my glasses, my sunglasses, because I was going through this dark patch where I was like, if I stop, I'm going to stop and I'm going to let all these people down and I will have this sense of underachievement pressure, yeah.

Speaker 3: (36:59)
For hanging around my neck. And as we approached, or one of the mini stations, I said to Johnny, Oh, you run on now, I'm I'm close to DNS thing. I'm gonna work through this. He said, no, no, no. We are, we're going to walk. We start if we have to together. Wow. He's doing. Yeah, he is. He's a really good dude. So so then our run at that point became a shuffle and you know, you're tired, you're physically tired. You can't run at that same pace. So we're still running, but it was just a, a shuffle and yeah, Johnny dragged us into the into the Kinlock aid station where we picked up our pacer. And my wife's friend who's training for coast Hannah, so she she signed up to be a pacer and yeah, my my wife took a video.

Speaker 3: (37:48)
She she asked me a question and she was videoing the response at the, at the 74 K line and a station, sorry. And she said, how do you feel? And I said explicative tired. And she said, Oh do you want to do a another hundred or on 160 after this? And there were a few more expletives that followed. And she she's kept the video and I've, it's a nice reminder, but so then we, yeah, we Johnny had another white bite fritter and I was just like, my God, he's going to suffer in a minute. And yeah, so we hit the Hill behind Kinloch and off we went. And that's, I think when the disassociation came in for me, cause my, my body was really hurt and my feet were really broken, like listers, toenails, just feet were sliding all over the place in my shoes. And it got through Kinlock with a reduced shuffle. And then I think we popped out around the 90 K Mark and into the, off the Hill. And I think that's when I th I finally felt that I was going to do this or sort of finish it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (38:58)
That's a good feeling when you think, yeah, I've got this now. Like,

Speaker 3: (39:01)
Yeah. I mean I think we are our pacer was really good. She, you know, was checking in and if you're pacing someone that you've, you, you know, haven't done that sort of distance with, it's you've got to find your rhythm. And when we got to that last day station, I think, you know, eight K to go or whatever it was that's when we all thought, yeah, this is this, we're on the home stretch here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And across the finish line and yeah, happy days

Speaker 2: (39:30)
Come back to like be like you've been in the, in the hurt locker for a good city. K so 25 Ks or something, which is an awful long time by the way. And I always say to people, the rice doesn't really step from Sydney. [inaudible] Usually that's when you know, when you pace yourself, right, with you hydrated, right. Whether your nutrition was right up until that point. And there's always going to be a time in those big long races and that can laugh for hours when you're absolutely miserable and you just want to die every second and give out. And if you can get through that, sometimes what happens is very often as you come into another space where suddenly it's all good again, you don't know how or why, but you, Bonnie sort of comes back. Did you experience that?

Speaker 3: (40:09)
Yeah, I think so. I took the, I spoke about in that 60 K Mark, you know, where I was close to DNF thing and you know, when Johnny said to me no, we're going to walk this out if we have to. So let's just keep going. I think what I now understand a little bit more about, I was going through a battle with my body and mind and what my body was going. Now let's just stop, you know, there's an aid station, there should, it can come pick you up. We'd go home and my mind was like, no, no, you were going to do this. And it was, it was like there's a little war going on between the two. Totally. Yeah. And

Speaker 2: (40:39)
Welcome to the, I enjoy the devil, the lion and the snake. Yeah. Louder. And it gets more and more frantic up there. Right.

Speaker 3: (40:46)
And I, I'd, I'd heard about it from, from you and others around in that war, your, your mind is telling your body, no, we're going to do this. So just shut up and just live with the pain. And that pain that I was experiencing physically actually reached a point and it didn't go any further. It just settled, it dissipated. And and then I got into a happy, happy place where I thought, yeah, I've got a shuffle going on. I'm not gonna run this full bore, full bore. I can't, but I'm moving forward and I'm getting closer to the next stage station and we're going to pick up HANA, you know, 74K and then we're going to do the same from there, up and over. Kinlock. Uand even with my, you know, like going through that,uI found a way to keep moving.

Speaker 3: (41:39)
It was almost as if the blisters, they were just blisters, they were going to go away. Toddlers grow back. And that's how I kind of quickly processed it. But it was just keep, even if you have to walk up the Hill, walk up the Hill, yeah, it's fine. Cool. so yeah, we got to, you know, from the 63 to Kinlock, which is a 74 and I think I mentally was getting into happy site. You know, like I, my body had quiet and down. The pain had kind of reached a point but hadn't got worse. And mentally I was I was over, you know, picking up the pace of 74 was a significant milestone. And we were, I think I could see the end you know, it was, we were close and it was just a case of getting through it. Yeah. And I was, I was still trying to bring myself back to the now going through my little checklist I mentioned earlier. And it was a way of just kind of putting into a little box the different pains or feelings I was experiencing. Discomfort around my feet, discomfort around my legs, you know, it got worse or sorry I've got bad, but it wasn't gonna get any worse.

Speaker 2: (42:58)
It's quite funny on that point. That yeah, when the body starts to scream at you, it's a bit like when it does pre-race, you know, when it throws it, you know, a sickness that you at the cold or some something that or try and stop you doing it and also does it arise. We are getting to the point where you like, the pain is so bad. You're thinking, how the hell am I going to carry on? And then when you do persevere, once again, the brain seems to go, Oh well she's not stopping. We've got to keep going. So I better stop putting those signals out. I don't know how it works. And I'd be interesting to see if other athletes have experienced the same thing, but it doesn't actually get any worse than bad. It's already bad, but keep getting worse.

Speaker 3: (43:40)
Yeah. And you know, it's, I don't know whether it was a combination of you know, mental fortitude or whatever word you wanna use or we'd reached a significant milestone. So getting up and over Kinlock Hill was huge cause it in 90 K there's two little eight stations and hitting the eight, the ice station at 90 K, as soon as you turn the corner off the ice station, it was like a wall of noise from the finish area had made its way up to up. You could hear it. And it was like, wow, we are so close. So any, it was like another wave just picked you up and was going to carry you down this, this fricking mountain. And you know, you could just, where that point, we were kind of walking shuffling and it was in the dark and it was quite wet.

Speaker 3: (44:30)
So you'd probably didn't have any other choice to be honest. And it was just, you know, you could feel the end. So we just made our way down the mountain. And we were joking amongst the three of us, you know, pace from Johnny about, you know, what we're going to have to, we was our favorite post race mill, just really silly crabs that was just getting us through the finish to the finish. And yeah, so yeah, we, we, we hit that last cause like a sty that you've got to climb over and it's like a physical barrier where you're leaving the trials to a four wheel drive tack that literally throws you out at the finish line and climbed over that STI. And it was just, we've done it. We know we're almost there.

Speaker 2: (45:20)
And you can see, you know, you can see that you can hear the people and you can feel that you're getting near and you can light at the end of the tunnel after a very dark long tunnel.

Speaker 3: (45:29)
Yeah. And it was, it was funny. It's like, wow. You know, you crossed the line, we crossed the line together. I had a big of a bit of a hug and you know, like we've, I think it was a realization for me that, wow, we'd, we'd just done this. There's a huge achievement personally, yeah,

Speaker 2: (45:48)
It is a huge achievement. What did you feel at the finish line? Because some, sometimes in sunrises I felt like, you know, I've just broken down in tears, absolutely with relief and I can actually stop because you dream about being able to stop and other times it's just no emotion because you just like numb. You sort of wanted that beyond anything. What was your reaction?

Speaker 3: (46:10)
So what I didn't mentioned is on that way up and over Kinlock Hill towards the 80 and 90 K stations, I, I was going through a real roller coaster of emotion, you know, just trying to get to that final eight station. When I'd, I was on the home stretch, I was, I'm really struggling to hold back the tears. And Johnny was in front of me. My pace was behind me, so they had no idea what my facial expression was. But so, so I thought, and I actually Johnny Johnny and I said, look, there's going to be some tears at the finish line, Hannah pacer be prepared across the finish line. And my overall overwhelming feeling was done it job done. And yeah, it was just satisfaction. I think it was w with no tears at the finish line because I think that emotion had passed and I think it was just sheer bloody relief. Yeah. Keep going. And I think it was excitement of now being able to eat real food like chips or dip or pizza or just something other than you know, a gel or you know, the equivalent paleo equivalent. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (47:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the horrible stuff. You're sick to death of what in and you thought EEG and it starts really, really interesting. The emotions that you go through. I did a a hundred K rice with Neil, you know, my, my offsider running hot coaching and it was his face on hundred and I mentioned this before, but he got, you know, he's a, he's a strong, tough med, but it's 70 Ks. He was in tears. He was in so much pain and he couldn't see his way to the finish line. You know, when you get into that deep dark space of absolute despair. And it also, and I cried pretty much every race, you know there's this, I don't think there's ever been an ultra where I haven't balled my eyes out somewhere. It's just part of the thing. And what happens is that when you get, when you have given everything at your body, you are so raw and you're so emotional, like everything is like any little thing can sit you off.

Speaker 2: (48:27)
Hello D and I was like 180 Kazan or something into death Valley, 270 K the same thing guys. And I was in such a world of pain and there was a 60 kilometer strike road that was just blowing my mind. And Neo was running behind me and he exited. We hit my ankle when he was running, just, just a couple of steps behind. And he hit my ankle and he tripped me up. And the adrenaline rush of being tripped and falling just opened the floodgates of the emotions. Like, cause I was holding it together desperately. And when I fell on the drill and came out, I was just bawling for the next hour, still running up, polling my eyes out and just could not control myself, you know. And he was like mortified. I swapped people who are, who are cruising for me. And it wasn't, it wasn't about him. Just that shock of falling just released everything that you are holding on so tightly toe. It's a ultra marathon and doing something like this huge achievement that you've just done is really it's life squeezed into a 50 an hour or 50 narrow or whatever it was, timeframe.

Speaker 3: (49:46)
It's, yeah, every emotion that you can possibly feel you in a, in a human lifetime, you can, you know, you just go through a roller coaster of emotions. And I think for me that, you know, from 60 K through two sort of 80, 85 when we crossed that last day station that was probably mentally quite tough, you know, just to keep moving one step after another. And then you, it was just sheer, utter relief. Yeah. Job done. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (50:21)
Yeah. So now you've done your Europe year in the hundred K club, you're an ultra marathon now done, you've done a few FFTs already in this, your first hundred. How are you feeling? You're three weeks out, have you, what w what often happens with runners, and I won't free that with you, but how did you go through a bit of a elation stage and then a ho down the other side stage and a bit of a depression before you started coming out the other end? Are you still in that roller coaster of a post race situation? How are you keeping now? Oh, we lost you there for a sec. [inaudible] Yup, yup, yup. We know on the pool was sorry about that people. So yeah. Did you F what are you going through now? Emotionally?

Speaker 3: (51:16)
So I I think I, I probably relaxed too quickly post race. I, I'm is my wife's 40th birthday, a couple of days after. So you know, that new, that normal discipline around diet and hydration probably relaxed a bit too quickly. And I suffered that first week not only with like aching niggles and blistered feet, but I had a, a really heavy, bad, nasty cold. So my immune system was absolutely smashed from the race I think. And just my body going, I think know, thank God that's over. But I, I started walking you know, daily on the Monday. So I had Sunday off, started walking and then walk, running again by Wednesday just to keep the body moving. And I got through the cold and I'm back running. But I've, I've seen some advice in the group around from Neal around, you know, try and keep that long, run to no more than an hour.

Speaker 3: (52:14)
First month I had a chat with Neil actually around you know, what is my recovery looking like? And I wanted to I, I S I swore during the race I would never do this, but I've started to look at what next and I actually, I'm getting itchy feet around. Myla so 160 K so but it's not for, it's not for cause North burn really appeals to me from a sheer physical challenge. I don't think I wanna go back to Tara [inaudible] and do the a hundred or the 160, because the environments are similar to telco. Yeah. So I'm drawn to really challenging races, physically challenging, like really gnarly mountainous, hilly, tight races. So North really appeals to me. Yeah. So that's a 20, 21 goal, I think. I want to, somebody said to me the other day, take some time to smell the roses. And I'm just going to enjoy running and just mountain biking. You're having fun, but my body's coming. Right. yeah, I I'm just gonna still run absolutely by just, I just wanna run for the enjoyment

Speaker 2: (53:26)
Of it at the moment for my, for my 2 cents as, as when, when after a race, you often do have an immune system because you have knocked the hell out of your immune system. Really. You've, you've used that point every, a lot of your hormones, like your endorphins and serotonin. So you can go into it at depression about usually 10 days out seeming to teen dies yet is when you usually have a bit of a mental job. You can be on a high for a couple of days straight after the race because you're, you saw you're tired, but just so stuck with yourself and you're on this adrenaline. Your body's been in a fight or flight state during that race. And so it's still in that fight or flight state often for a good couple of days. And then you start to come down from it and that's when you can start to get sick.

Speaker 2: (54:10)
And you also usually ravenously hungry at this time. So you just pigging out like no tomorrow. And your body is actually goes into a repair state after, you know, a couple of days and you come down and often that can be quite a Rocky road for people. Not always, but it is number one, you've lost the big goal that you had that is now achieved and done and there's a bit of an empty space in your life and then you're, you're also, you've had a bit of a trauma, you've gone through some trauma, so there's some post-traumatic sort of stuff going on. Some you're still working through. What the hell was that that I just experienced, especially when you do overseas races and you are out of your actual cultural environment on top of it all. And then after team dies, you might start to come out of it.

Speaker 2: (55:01)
That sort of adept, which often happens and then is when your mind starts to go, what next? Because you've got a big hole and you sort of need something to be aiming towards again. Yeah. Thing is, and this phase is, it's great to have and I'm glad you say 2021 because that means that you're being like sensible in, in, you're going to let your body get over this experience and then build yourself up again. And you have some other races, no doubt along the way that will build you to Wallington northbound 2021 and North burners approach little tasks a hundred mater. Like if you, if, if you wanted an easy a hundred water, that ain't it, you know, I bet any easy a hundred motto cause a hundred most soccer balls. But that one is a particularly tough, tough, tough one. But super exciting and an amazing, have been really lovely family.

Speaker 2: (55:54)
I was cofounder of that race and loved it and I sold it last year to the guys teary and Tom and, and they, they've done a fantastic job with it. And it's really a special special event and it's a small family event as opposed to the big Tyler widow. I'll post that. It's a lot more this corporate feel. It's a lot more intimate. And I also think for me that I wanna quite life is so precious. I want to, I want to spend time being as well and not just getting lost, chasing massive goals all the time. Oh, you're so wise. Honestly, like honestly the, a lot of people go into this phase because I've seen it like, you know, after having trained so many people and gone through this process with so many people, you get to camps, you get the ones who say on never even want to do that to myself again.

Speaker 2: (56:44)
And then they gone out of, out of it. Hopefully if you've prepared people well, like don't actually fall off completely, but often they need a really decent break or you get other ones who go, that's totally lost without the next huge thing. And I, and I fell into that camp for many, many years on this hamster wheel of having to do events because I didn't know what the hell else to do with myself if I wasn't completely, this was my identity and it was very tied up with who I was and my self esteem and my confidence. And so when, like three years ago, and I actually retired from the long staff because my mom but it was overdue, it was overdue to have a break, you know, at least a break if not, you know feminine. Like, because I was just in this hamster wheel of, of trying to outdo myself all the time.

Speaker 2: (57:39)
And you can't, you know, there comes a point where you can't do more than you did. You know, you can't keep topping it and keep trying and you just blowing yourself out completely and you're not allowing yourself that recovery time in between. And I can even see it in some of the top, top elite, you know, famous super crazy ultra runners out there that I'm friends with who are still doing it as they're getting older and older and older and this like the fifties and sixties, but that, that they, they the obsessive, you know, and then not as healthy as I could be if they actually took a step back now and I'm going to take some time out for a year or two and just reassessed where my body's at. And it's really hard to do that to step away for a while because you know that to get back to that level, why are we're out now and do a hundred K or something.

Speaker 2: (58:36)
I couldn't go and just do it because I haven't been trained to get back there would be in your mind, the hard part is when you've done so many is that you expect yourself still to be there even when you are not there. And it really hard one for people coming back from injuries for older runners, people who have retired and then we'll come back out or then I they did to get I've got a lady at the moment who's been struggling with a really bad illness and was comparing herself to how she was two or three years ago as to how she is now and rebuilding and keeping and being very disappointed in herself because she still thinks she's back there instead of going, starting from scratch again in moving forward in what was, is gone and not comparing yourself to who you used to be.

Speaker 3: (59:27)
Yeah, I think, yeah. And I think you know, when I did coast 10 years ago, coast to coast I started and stopped very abruptly, the whole endurance small sport journey and it took a few years to reconnect with running. I don't want to stop running, but I, there's no way I could do why I probably could, but I, I would just, I wouldn't be best prepared. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: (59:53)
Wouldn't be the best husband and you wouldn't be the best father, the best person you are at work. You know, so it these things and this is what I try to get across to people is that when you take on these message goals, you are sacrificing some other part of your life and it's, it's and that's fine if that's what you've decided you're going to do, but to understand the impact that it's going to have on your husband and wife and your children, what impact, you know, for positive infinitive it can, but if you are doing it back to back to back to back, it can actually have a negative effect on your family and your friends on it. So what's weighing all that sort of stuff up and understanding where we are as my focus going now? It's something I battle with constantly because part of me wants to go back and do all that crazy stuff right now when I have other priorities, it's just life. Sometimes it's very hard to, to knock it down on yourself and to feel guilty cause you're not doing everything.

Speaker 3: (01:00:54)
Yes. Yeah. And, and life's important, you've gotta enjoy it as you go through it. And if, yeah, I dunno. That's so I, I, yeah, I finished and I'm happy, but I'm actually at peace now with the fact that next year is some smaller races. But the big one is me potentially in 2021.

Speaker 2: (01:01:12)
Yeah. And you've done this one and what your friends said celebrate and smell the roses. That is a fantastic principal to take away. And it's something that someone told me at the end of a big race when I just went, Oh, what, you know, I wasn't as fast as so-and-so and I didn't, you know, I bet it's a bit a longer race and they went for goodness sake, you know, after I'd just run a mess. Okay. Right. They just said, you know, cannot, can you not just congratulate yourself, celebrate your wins, integrated into your psyche and who you are before you go chasing the next goal. Yeah. Actually type this hundred K telco run and put it in your hat and go, I fricking did that in our religion for doing that. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna suck this, I'm gonna suck this one dry before I go and chase the next.

Speaker 3: (01:02:04)
Oh, totally. Yeah. So I think I think with the the English get into the rugby world cup final thing, I'm going to have a little beer or two this weekend.

Speaker 2: (01:02:14)
Yes. I was saved and then I apply. Well they were, they were absolutely amazing. And, and hits off their guys too. You know, you, you can always be no. So, Hey man, thank you very much for sharing your story. I hope this is empowered and lots of other people listening to this. I hope it's made you think maybe I can do it if Matt can do it. And to understand the journey that you go through and then it isn't or you know, roses, it is difficult along the way, but that you can overcome any final words that you'd want to. If you were talking to you two years ago, what sort of advice would you give Mitt

Speaker 3: (01:02:57)
If you believe in yourself and believe in others around you? And Oh yeah, just if you want something, go after it and, and no, no distance, no goal is too big, if you know what I mean. Life is, you get one lap in life and you've got to make the most of it

Speaker 2: (01:03:17)
I made to that one.

Speaker 3: (01:03:19)
Yeah. So thank you Lisa. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 2: (01:03:22)
No, it's been absolutely fantastic. It's wonderful to have you in a running hot coaching tribe in. If anyone else wants to join us, of course we'd love to have you come and join us and check us out. I'm sure Matt will agree it's been a a good journey with, with having a bit of structure to your training and having some goals and someone to, to ask questions to and to make sure that you're doing things right. So Matt, congratulations once again on your huge success and your mess of victory. And we'll talk to you again so no doubt. Awesome. Thanks Lisa.

Speaker 4: (01:03:55)
[Inaudible]

Speaker 1: (01:03:55)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. We showed her write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at least at www.lisatamati.com.

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We are living through multiple crises. Not only are we going through the COVID-19 pandemic, but there is also a hidden epidemic going on. Over the years, people have become more obese. In 2013, only 34% of our population was within a healthy BMI range, and this statistic is falling exponentially over the years. We need to take action now because obesity is not about how you look — it's about real health consequences.

Dr Katherine Sowden joins us in this episode to talk about women's and public health. She explains how obesity changes our bodies and causes various diseases and cancers. She shares that it’s often not even people’s fault. There’s a range of factors that encourage this epidemic. Exacerbating the socioeconomic and cultural factors is the food industry. Dr Katherine emphasises that we need to start educating ourselves on our health. Only then can we make better choices to prevent these diseases.

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Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of ageing while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:06] The Current State of Women’s Health * One of the most significant issues in women's health is the normalisation of obesity. * This situation comes from a lack of understanding of the importance of nutrition and movement to our health. * Endometrial cancer is a progressive order that is caused by having too much estrogen. One of its leading causes is obesity. * Obesity can also decrease fertility since it affects the ovulatory cycle by affecting the production of progesterone. * Before, we used to see endometrial cancer affecting women over 40, but now there are cases as young as under 20.

[07:59] Effects of Obesity * Women’s relative risk for endometrial cancer is one if they have a normal BMI. However, when they’re in the range of 30-35 and over 40, this is raised to 2.5 and 7.1 respectively. * There are now many obese young women who are in this constant state of a hyper estrogenic environment. * The definitive treatment of this cancer is hysterectomy, making a huge impact on women’s choice for reproduction. * In addition, obesity can increase the risk of breast cancer too.

[10:43] What Changes Does Obesity Make? * Obesity leads to an abnormally high aromatase gene expression, which is in charge of estrogen production. * With obesity, the body converts more of the androgen peripheral tissue into estrogen too. * This problem does not apply only to women. Obese men also have hormone issues and tend to have feminine features.

[14:04] How the Food Industry Affects Our Health * One of the main drivers of the obesity epidemic is the wide availability of obesogenic food. * Lower-income families tend to consume more of these foods since they are cheaper than healthier options. * We can remove taxes on fruits and vegetables to help address the problems in the food industry — as other countries have done. * Even if junk foods seem cheap, these are costing the country more. Public health will collapse as more young people develop diseases. * Obesity doesn't just cause cancer — it can also lead to diabetes and heart disease.

[16:19] What Needs to Change? * The market needs to change to make healthy foods more accessible. The food industry also needs to assess the way they use additives and preservatives. * It's not totally our fault that we're obese. This epidemic is driven by socioeconomic and cultural factors, in addition to the food industry. * Widespread normalisation of a high BMI is also harmful since people don’t understand its consequences. * While doctors can help treat your diseases with pills and surgeries, it will always come with risks. It’s your responsibility to prevent hospitalisation. * Medication should not be your first and only option.

[23:19] Start with Educating Yourself * Preventing disease progression starts at an early stage. * Some medical interventions may not be the cure to fix your health. There is a need for a holistic approach to health. * In public health settings, most doctors only have 20 minutes to get to know a patient. This amount of time does not give them a complete picture of what the patient needs. * Personalised health care starts with self-education. Do your research so you can ask specific questions to your doctor within the limited timeframe given to you. * Dr Katherine shares that not only does obesity have compounding effects on health, it can also affect surgeries! Learn more about this in the complete episode.

[31:13] How Obesity has Risen Over the Years * Even if our lifespans have increased because of medicine, people are also dying earlier because of diseases. * A study in New Zealand found that the standardised incidence of endometrial cancer used to be 1.9 per 100,000 population in 1996. * This rate increased to 24.2 in 2012, with the Pacific Islanders' at 46.06. * In 2013, around 34% of the population were within the range of a healthy BMI. This percentage has decreased sharply over the years. * Preventing cancers, such as endometrial cancers, starts with losing weight and changing lifestyles.

[37:05] Start Early * It’s more difficult to reverse cancers and diseases than taking preventive measures. * Diseases and cancers don’t happen overnight. It’s the result of malignant states developing over time. * Not all cancers are preventable, but we can decrease our chances of developing them, especially with estrogen-dependent cancers.

[40:20] Stop the Vicious Cycle * Nowadays, it's commonly seen as politically incorrect to discuss obesity. Remember that our physical states impact our health, whether we like to hear them or not. * Understand the consequences of obesity. These include the increased likelihood of infertility, cancer risk, diabetes, dementia, heart disease, and many more illnesses. * Start with adopting lifestyle changes in terms of nutrition and movement. * Eating unhealthy foods can cause a vicious cycle of degrading health, both physically and mentally. * You can also seek more personalised healthcare from health coaches and other allied health professionals.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘We tax cigarettes, we take alcohol. Why aren't we taxing some of this junk food? It is of no benefit to people whatsoever.’

‘We need to do something and even if it is unpopular. So for example, taxing sugary food and drinks. It's got to be worthwhile.’

‘We can do operations that do amazing things, and really cure people of cancer, and improve their quality of life, but equally it shouldn't be the first option.’

‘But I think we've always got to look at the patient as a whole person. The least invasive cure, the better.’

'The more people we can keep out of the hospital, the better because it means we can deliver quality personalised health care.'

‘The more you can educate yourself, the better. So that when you get that 20 minutes in the public system, you've got the questions to ask, you know what you're going in for.’

‘It's also seen as politically incorrect to discuss obesity. But it's not politically incorrect. That's factual and it's a crisis. We need to stop pussyfooting around it.’

About Katherine Dr Katherine Sowden is a highly respected gynaecologist and has been the Clinical Lead in Counties Manukau Health since 2014. She is also a Consultant Gynaecologist in Auckland Women's Gynaecology and Ormiston Specialist Centre.

Dr Katherine is a fellow of the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. She is currently the departmental lead for non-tertiary gynaecological oncology and focuses on the management of premalignant gynaecological conditions.

She provides a wide range of gynaecology services. You can find out more about her practice in Auckland Women's Gynae and Ormiston Specialists.

You can also reach Katherine by email.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can make better health choices to prevent cancer.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this episode Run Coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff look at the structure of a good run training system.

The many elements of a holistic program - run sessions, skills and drills, mobility and flexibility work, strength work, sleep and recovery, nutrition and supplementation and mindset.

They look at the benefits of video analysis and when to build in technique and drill work and when and how to build in strength training that is specific to running.

How mobilty work plays a part and the role of your hormones and rest and recovery and much more.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

If you want to work towards success, you need to start living a life that’s indistractable.

We know we need to be focused. Yet, how many times a day do you get distracted from doing your most important work? It's easy to get sucked into hours of scrolling through social media or mindlessly skipping channels. These external triggers often take the blame when we get distracted. However, did you know that a more dangerous form of distraction is one where we think we're being productive? The secret is that the opposite of distraction isn't focus: it's traction.

Behavioural designer Nir Eyal joins us to talk about how to form good habits and break bad ones. He discusses the four steps to becoming indistractable and staying on top of your goals. We also learn how to change our mindsets around self-limiting beliefs and pessimistic thoughts. Finally, Nir shares his expertise in creating effective habit-forming products and building an engaged community.

You have the power to become indistractable. Tune in if you want to know about how to create a distraction-free life!

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover the four steps you need to take to become indistractable. 2. Understand the true meaning of distractions and why we need to let go of limiting beliefs. 3. Learn how to make habit-forming products and services along with a strong community engagement.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * A new program, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes with Dr Elena Seranova: * + #183: Sirtuin and NAD Supplements for Longevity + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity * Connect with Nir: Website I Twitter I LinkedIn * Books by Nir: * + Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products + Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life * Steven Kotler and The Flow Collective * Mindset by Carol Dweck * Factfulness by Hans Rosling * Peter Diamandis and his books

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Despite their words, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:57] Nir’s Background * As a behavioural designer, Nir helps companies build products and services that encourage individuals to develop healthy habits. * The same strategy and technology addictive platforms like Facebook use can help people form good habits. * Nir has written Hooked to help people build good habits. Meanwhile, Indistractable teaches people how to break bad habits. * People often know what to do to create a better life but don't take action. As such, Nir believes that learning to be indistractable is the skill of the century.

[06:25] On Indistractable: Understanding Distractions * The opposite of distraction isn’t focus; it’s traction. * Traction is any action that will bring you closer to your goals and values. * Therefore, distraction is any action that will pull you away from your goals and values. * The most dangerous form of distraction is the one where we think we're being productive. * We often prioritise the urgent and easy work over the hard and important ones.

[10:40] Social Media and Addiction * There’s a widespread belief that social media will make you addicted. But in reality, this is learned helplessness. * When people believe that they’re addicted, they often don’t do anything about it. * There’s nothing wrong with social media. The problem is how we use it. * We are not powerless against technology.

[13:22] How to Gain Back Control * People don't accomplish a goal because they quit early and don't feel like doing the work. * We often blame our distractions on external forces. However, around 90% of these are due to internal triggers. * Internal triggers are uncomfortable emotions that we want to escape. We do this by distracting ourselves. * In reality, time management is about pain management.

[17:43] Letting Go of Limiting Beliefs * Nir warns against anchoring our autonomy on neurotransmitters. When we believe we have a specific nature, we limit our agency. * Before labelling yourself a certain way, do the work. * People find success when they act before they make excuses. * Believing in ego depletion is also harmful. Find out why in the full episode!

[24:49] The Indistractable Model: Steps One and Two * The first strategy to becoming indistractable is mastering your internal triggers through visualisation. * Don’t envision the outcome. Doing so can be harmful because it makes you feel like you’ve already done the work. * Visualise what you'll do when you're tempted to go off track. * The second step is to make time for traction. You can’t call something a distraction unless you know what you’re distracted from. * Having a to-do list can be harmful; plan daily schedules instead.

[27:44] The Indistractable Model: Steps Three and Four * The third step is to decrease external triggers. * Finally, prevent distractions with pacts or pre-commitments.

[30:40] What You Should Measure * We have a lot of self-limiting beliefs. You need to distinguish whether these are things you cannot do or just ones you don't want to do. * When doing something, the consistency of your actions contributes more to your success than the intensity. * Understand that accomplishing your goals takes time. * Instead of looking at your output, learn to measure your progress through your inputs, such as time and effort.

[37:57] Be Willing to Put in the Hard Work * There’s no magic pill for our problems and goals. Everything takes time and work. * Keep showing up and doing the hard work. * We now have access to so much information; you just need to get out there and learn. * Remember that if you’re looking for distraction, it will come.

[41:58] Adapting to Changes Around Us * All new things have consequences. The good thing is, we humans are highly adaptable. * In the same vein, you have the power to adapt and control how you consume ‘addictive’ social media. Not the other way around. * Nir believes that the world is getting better. However, good news does not get much media coverage. * Try to be more optimistic. Only then can you seek solutions to problems and not resign yourself to the situation. * You don't need to worry about everyone's problems. Your human capital is best directed toward issues where you can make the easiest and most significant impact.

[50:48] How to Make Habit-Forming Products * Use habit-forming products frequently and soon. It should be something that you use within a week or less. * First, tap into internal triggers and specify which uncomfortable emotion your product wants to solve. * Second, reduce friction. Make your product as easy as possible to use. * Third, create variable rewards. Uncertainty is what excites people and gets them hooked. * Finally, it helps to make people invest in the experience. Listen to the full episode to dive deeper into making habit-forming products!

[55:19] The 3 C’s of Engagement * Fostering engagement can be done through content, community, and conversation. * Curate content that will give value to others. * Empower people to help one another so you can create a strong-knit community. * Lastly, have conversations with people to share knowledge and wisdom.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘The opposite of distraction is not focus. If you look at the origin of the word, the opposite of distraction is traction. You'll notice that both traction and distraction end in the same six letters, a-c-t-i-o-n.’

‘Traction, by definition, is any action that pulls you towards what you said you were going to do. Things that you do with intent. Things that move you closer to your values and help you become the kind of person you want to become.’

‘We have this model in our heads: traction, distraction, internal, external, right? Now we know that the four big parts of the Indistractable model. So now, we work our way around these four steps like the points on a compass.’

‘One of my life mantras is: “Consistency over intensity”. I think that's how we change.’

‘We want that instant relief. We want that instant solution. Look, the things that are worth having in life, they take time.’

‘What's going to lead us out of our problems is not running away from these problems, not throwing up our hands and giving up. But rather, engaging with these problems, right?’

‘[Habit-forming products] appreciate in value, meaning they get better and better the more we interact with them because of what I call stored value.’

About Nir Nir Eyal writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, technology, and business. He helps companies create behaviours that benefit the users and educates people on building healthful habits in their lives.

Nir previously taught as a Lecturer in Marketing at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and the Hasso Plattner Institute of Design. He is the bestselling author of Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products and Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life. He also shares his insights with his newsletter at Nir and Far and has written for Psychology Today, The Atlantic, TechCrunch, and the Harvard Business Review.

Nir is also an active investor in habit-forming technologies, such as Eventbrite, Kahoot!, and Anchor.fm.

Interested in learning more about Nir's work? You check out his website. You can also reach him on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so that they can learn what it takes to form good habits and become indistractable.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

As the saying goes, trust your gut — and this isn’t only figuratively. One of the most overlooked aspects of health is our digestive system. We tend to ignore and underestimate the symptoms we experience around our gut. But with its link to our brains, our guts play a much more significant role in our overall health. The simple act of eating healthy foods can completely turn your life around.

Kirsty Wirth joins us in this episode to share how reexamining gut health impacted her and her son's life. She talks about the road to recovery, specifically her family undergoing fecal microbial transplant (FMT). Kirsty highlights the importance of in-depth gut health testing, cutting out junk foods, and consuming healthy foods. She further discusses the two types of fermented food and how we can incorporate it into our diet.

If you’re having trouble with your digestive system and want to know which healthy foods to choose, this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how an undiagnosed gut issue can lead to an autism spectrum misdiagnosis. 2. Discover the importance of eating healthy foods when looking after your microbiome. 3. Find out the two types of fermented food and their effects on the body.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * A new program, BOOSTCAMP, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Listen to my other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #170: The Search for the Perfect Protein and Why So Many of Us Are Deficient with Dr David Minkoff + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Connect with Kirsty: Instagram I Facebook I Email * Kultured Wellness * Get your Kultured Wellness starter culture here! * Join a Kultured Wellness Programme today! * Kulturing Kuriosity podcast * Lifespan: Why We Age – and Why We Don't Have To by Dr David Sinclair

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third-party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third-party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [04:55] The Story Behind Kultured Wellness * Kirsty started Kultured Wellness because of her personal experience and what her son went through. * She started having tummy upsets from age two onwards. She would constantly swing between constipation and diarrhea. * Acquiring viral encephalitis at age 13 and being hospitalised for a week was a landmark time in Kirsty’s life. Gut problems became a constant issue from then on. * Her husband, who is a nurse, told her constant diarrhea is not normal. So, she dabbled with various diets but didn't stick with them. * It’s not until they found out about her son’s conditions that Kirsty took concrete action.

[09:55] Kirsty’s Son’s Autism Spectrum Diagnosis * At 13 months, Noah suffered from infections and tummy troubles. Fortunately, his recovery progressed well. * But at 18 months, Noah became completely non-verbal, underwent behavioural changes, and suffered from constant diarrhea. * The paediatrician said that Noah’s condition was normal. However, his condition only worsened. * Then, Noah was diagnosed with autism. This gave them funding for treatment and support.

[13:56] Discovery of an Underlying Gut Issue * The possibility that Kirsty passed on her diarrhea issue to Noah was always at the back of her mind. * They found a doctor who listened to their suspicion that Noah has an underlying condition. * After testing Noah’s stool sample, they discovered that he had Clostridium difficile, a type of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. * This bacteria releases endotoxin that compromises the gut and the blood-brain barrier. * They found that the endotoxin in Noah's body had attached to the brain receptors responsible for socialisation and learning.

[17:21] Undergoing Fecal Microbial Transplant (FMT) * Kirsty and her two children participated in a research study in Canada. There, they underwent a fecal microbial transplant. * Their guts were flushed with antibiotics to get rid of everything, including the Clostridium difficile. These were then replaced with donors’ microbes. * Kirsty’s children were the youngest people to undergo FMT. While they were there, Noah started becoming more sociable. * Not everyone needs to undergo FMT to recover their gut. There are now many ways to modulate the gut, one of which is eating healthy foods. * Tune in to the full episode to hear more about Noah's recovery and development as a teen!

[25:42] Getting Diagnosed with PANDAS * PANDAS is an autoimmune neurological condition associated with an antigen. Both Kirsty and Noah got diagnosed with it. * It stands for Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcal Infections. * Listen to the full podcast to learn more about PANDAS and how Kirsty acquired it!

[33:13] Looking After Your Microbiome * Test, don’t guess. Get a comprehensive stool analysis. * Kirsty uses two tests for her clients. * You need to be intentional in choosing healthy foods. Include fermented and nourishing food for your gut. * Also, remember that diets do not work. No amount of willpower can go against our primal built-in set point.

[46:10] Two Types of Fermented Food and Their Effect on the Body * The first is the wild type. This includes histamine-forming foods or lactate-forming metabolites. * Our gut has microbes that consume histamine and help us not develop histamine issues. * The second is uncultured ferment. These are specific ferments in a controlled environment with specifically chosen strains. * People struggling with lactate-forming metabolites should choose D-lactate bacteria strains. * These strains break down and down-regulate histamines without causing reactions.

[48:50] Incorporating Fermented Healthy Foods into Your Diet * You can start with small amounts of uncultured ferment to build out your microbiome. * Then, you can start dabbling with wild ferments. * Kirsty develops cultures with nine different strains that have efficacy for autoimmune, neurological, and digestive conditions. * Kultured Wellness offers a starter culture that you make yourself. Listen to the full episode to know the ingredients and the procedure!

[53:05] On Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes * One capsule of probiotics in the market has around 3 million CFU or colony-forming units. * Meanwhile, a cup of Kultured Wellness yoghurt has 41 billion CFU. * The absence of digestive enzymes and stomach acid is a major problem today. * Fermented food helps with this problem because it has already been pre-digested from the fermenting process. * Fermented food doesn't require a robust amount of digestive enzymes. In fact, it supports the excretion of stomach acid.

[57:06] Parting Advice * Be curious and try your best to connect with your body. * You’re in a state of fight or flight all the time when you’re unwell. * We should not be focusing on DNA; it's the microbes that affect our DNA. * Being curious, taking responsibility, owning it, and wanting more for yourself is crucial.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I have seen how important your gut is and how it can completely change the pathway of your life. It can completely change who you are as a person.’

‘You don't just suddenly wake up one day and you've got cognition issues; that's coming from somewhere.’

‘So the first thing is just test, don't guess... We [can] really find out what is happening in our gut, and we can find out what it is doing to the rest of our body.’

‘If you want to make change, you've got to front up to make the change.’

‘If they don't include fermented foods and they don't include nourishing foods for their gut, they're relying on willpower. No one can get anywhere with willpower.’

‘It's what everyone finds hard and doesn't know, is that you should never rely on willpower. Diets will never work.’

‘DNA is not what we should be focusing on. It's actually the microbes and those fungi and viruses that make up our whole body that actually interacts through that.’

About Kirsty Kirsty Wirth is the founder of Kultured Wellness and an expert in cultures, gut health, and probiotics. Kultured Wellness is a company dedicated to providing knowledge and healthy foods for optimum gut health. As an integrative health coach, Kirsty's area of interest is in how lifestyle, environment, and diet can impact gut health and the immune system.

Drawing on her background and years of research, Kirsty educates people on the root cause behind underlying conditions. Her mission is to spread the word about the benefits of healthy foods, particularly fermented food in nourishing the gut's microbiome.

If you want to learn more about Kultured Wellness, you may visit their website. You can reach out to Kirsty on Instagram and Facebook. You can also send her an email at mailto:info@kulturedwellness.com.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be inspired to eat healthy foods for their gut health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

Health optimisation often involves a good diet, sleep, and exercise. But do we know how to implement practices that are compatible with our bodies? For some people, intense exercise can lead to more oxidative stress and inflammation! Not only that, some of us take medication and pills to treat pain and hormones, but are these really helping?

Small actions today can lead to big problems in the future.

Kashif Khan from The DNA Company joins us in this episode to talk about how understanding our DNA can help us make better choices for our health. Diseases can be prevented with healthy habits. But before you try any DNA testing, you should understand the nuances within the genetic industry. With Kashif’s advice, you can learn to choose a provider that can help you take actionable steps.

If you want to know more about the science behind DNA testing for health optimisation, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how our bodies are a whole system of processes and how our genes can be affected by many factors such as lifestyle and behaviour. 2. Learn the differences in DNA testing companies and how you can get the best value out of your reports. 3. Understand how to boost your immunity and prevent diseases!

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Past episodes with Dr Mansoor Mohammed: * + Episode 181 - Understanding Your Genetic Hormone Pathways + Episode 160 - Understanding Your Own DNA * Connect with Kashif: LinkedIn I Twitter I Facebook * Know how you can change your lifestyle based on your genes. Learn more on The DNA Company. * Tiny Habits by Dr. BJ Fogg * Books by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler * + The Future Is Faster Than You Think + Bold + Abundance

Episode Highlights [04:09] Understanding What Your DNA Means * Every process in your body is being driven by genetic instructions. * Kashif’s company set out to make these instructions more actionable for their clients. * You can do a quick online search of ‘DNA testing near me’ and get many hits, but you won’t get the results you want out of these. * Many of our diseases are preventable; consistently making the wrong choices can lead us to develop these illnesses. * Those choices will not be the same for everyone. You can look at your genetics to see what the right choices are for you.

[08:11] Know What You’re Testing For * Most companies offering DNA testing tend to make conclusions based on a single gene. However, the body is more complex than that. * Many of these DNA tests don’t really dive deep into your health. * To make their business model profitable, many businesses in the genetic industry sell their patient’s data to pharmaceutical companies. * The genetic industry has been used as a data collection machine. Kashif’s vision for their company is to turn this situation around and derive key insights for their consumers.

[12:35] The Role of Hormones in Health * Kashif observes that their company has had the biggest impact on women's healthcare. * This is due to the massive gap between what women need and what is provided by traditional healthcare. * There is a widespread belief that women are supposed to have hormone-related issues like PMS. However, this should not be the case. * Tune in to the full episode to find out how Kashif helped pinpoint his niece’s hormone issues using DNA testing and analysis.

[19:26] Covering Up the Symptoms * The healthcare industry tends to look at a problem in isolation and try to treat it with medication. * Treating hormonal issues is not as simplistic as prescribing pills for the hormones a patient lacks. Listen to the full episode to hear more insights on this topic! * For instance, we’re led to believe that women are prone to breast cancer when they reach menopause. However, this condition is preventable.

[24:01] Applying AI to DNA Testing * Kashif’s company found it challenging to train clinicians to interpret results from DNA testing. * To remedy this problem, they are using AI technology to create personalised reports and recommendations. * As a result, their reports are now much more comprehensive. It even analyses your mood and behaviour—crucial factors when it comes to dealing with your health.

[30:05] Understanding Your Mood and Behaviour * Lisa’s high adrenaline and lack of dopamine receptors manifest in an action-oriented behaviour. * Kashif shares that having low dopamine receptors can also lead to addiction or depression. That's because you are predisposed to not experience reward and pleasure. * Curious to know how your genes affect your mood? Find out how DNA testing can shed a light on this in the full episode! * You can view your gene expressions two-fold: a weakness and a superpower. For instance, you may think that you are irritable. But that also makes you detail-oriented.

[35:50] Change Takes Effort * Kashif’s company is focused on solving and preventing problems. * People may get great recommendations, but the real challenge lies in implementation and change. * Community and accountability are important to help people stay on track. * Group accountability with people in similar situations can increase motivation and persistence.

[42:21] Prevention is the Key * The current healthcare system is based on a reactive model rather than a preventive one. * Diseases can be prevented; we don’t need to reach a point of crisis until we take action. * In the US, the Center for Disease Control created a Diabetes Prevention Program, the first of its kind in the country.

[47:31] Health at the Cellular Level * Diseases are born from inflammation, which is based on cellular health. Cellular health depends on the body’s capacity for detoxification and oxidative stress. * Simple activities like golfing can have long term effects. Kashif shares that golfers may be in danger of inhaling pesticides in golf courses. * Exercise may work for some people. However, people with weaker SOD2 are prone to oxidative stress and more toxicity in the blood. * Your genetics will dictate what kind and how much exercise you should do. Listen to the full episode to learn more!

[56:34] The Future of Healthcare * Beyond DNA testing and analysis, it’s important to have someone knowledgeable on your end. They can help patients get the most value out of the reports. * New technologies tend to go through different phases. These involve deception, disruption, dematerialisation, demonetisation, and democratisation. * The technology in the genetic industry is becoming more accessible. It is now near the latter phases of technology development.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘We didn't go study DNA. There's enough science out there already. We studied people. We said, “Let's start at what's wrong with this person? What are they expressing as a symptom? Let's drill down genetically to see where is the system failing.”’

‘Of all the things we do, female hormone health is where we had the biggest impact. Not because we're the greatest, but because it's the worst experience in current healthcare.’

‘The DNA world looks at things in terms of disease. So you can speak at it that way. But there's so much more to it than that if you know how to interpret it.’

‘We believe coaching is primarily around accountability. So we have coaches we train that understand the reports, that can help.’

‘We're all coming out of the same model, I suppose this reactive healthcare model. Really, we're inventing the future of healthcare.‘

‘That's only then when you have that persistence and the resilience to actually go through with these changes that you're actually going to get new results.’

‘This reactive system that we're living in at the moment and the current model is just bloody bandaids on festering wounds.’

About Kashif Kashif Khan is the founder and CEO of The DNA Company, a functional genomics company. They help people understand their unique genetic code and how to unlock their physical potential. If you’re looking for ‘DNA testing near me’, their company is the one to call. They ensure actionable advice through a comprehensive genomic profile.

Kashif is also the co-founder and CEO of Younutrients. Their company provides supplement formulations personalised to people’s unique needs. In addition, he is also an investor and serial entrepreneur. He has helped build, scale, and run several businesses across different industries. He has advised early-stage startups and Fortune 500 companies including the Royal Bank of Canada and Cirque du Soleil.

Interested in Kashif’s work? Check out The DNA Company.

You can also reach out to Kashif on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be inspired to search for ‘DNA testing near me’ and optimise their health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

.You’ve most likely experienced pain at least once in your life. When you visit a medical doctor for pain relief, they might prescribe you painkillers. Similar to other traditional medical programs, you would find that this is passive. This is because your clinician is trained to treat the pain as a symptom rather than target the underlying cause of it. But fret not. There is a novel neuromodulatory approach that is now being developed by researchers to mitigate chronic pain.

This week, Exsurgo CEO Richard Little joins us on Pushing the Limits to explain how neurofeedback technology can revolutionise how we handle chronic pain. Their device is relatively inexpensive and can drastically improve the quality of life of millions of people worldwide.

If you want to know more about how medical innovations are changing the landscape of healthcare, then this episode is for you!

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third-party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand the nature of pain and how it affects the lives of those who experience it. 2. Learn the process behind neurofeedback technology which could change how we deal with chronic pain. 3. Discover why medical technology is the cheaper and better alternative to opioid pills when it comes to chronic pain relief.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Exsurgo * Dr Peter Diamandis' books: * + The Future is Faster Than You Think + Abundance

Episode Highlights [05:18] How Richard’s Story Started * He is an engineer and not a clinician by profession but got inspired by his personal history to help people in the medical field. * Their core mission is to make life easier for patients and clinicians while getting a better result and saving money. * Currently, they are in the field of neuroscience. Their products can relieve chronic pain as effectively as prescription drugs but without side effects.

[07:27] How the Neurofeedback Device Works * Exsurgo specialises in a neurofeedback device that trains the brain not to respond to pain impulses. * It was made through the concept of neuroplasticity––the trainability of the brain and its signalling patterns. * This device measures electrical activity in the brain related to pain. * When connected to a wireless device, these signals are transmitted to a game that rewards you whenever your pain signals go down. * This technology can hopefully be able to counteract the opioid crisis and the drawbacks of pain pills.

[14:46] Chronic Pain is a Negative Feedback Loop * Pain can cause difficulties in getting quality sleep, which in turn causes anxiety and negative moods. * The torture of chronic pain extends to other aspects of patients’ lives. * Richard's company has found that a biochemical and electrical change in the brain also results in positive physical changes. * Listen to the full episode to learn the story of a school headmistress who reduced her chronic pain and finger inflammation with Exsurgo’s help! * They are in the process of pushing the boundaries of what current technology can do, as research on chronic pain and inflammation are still lacking.

[19:53] Behind Richard’s Innovations * Richard's mother had a shocking and sudden stroke. Exurgo initially aimed to handle stroke rehabilitation. * Eventually, they pivoted to chronic pain as it was the most significant issue the industry faced at the time. * His friend had multiple sclerosis, which affected his ability to walk. So, they set out to build a robotic leg and exoskeleton to help patients' mobility. * Over time, many doctors have asked for Richard’s help to build medical devices for their patients. * Due to advancements in medical technology, patients’ expectations of health care have increased. However, these innovations typically cost thousands of dollars.

[26:49] Exsurgo’s Mission * Richard aims to build devices to help both patients and clinicians while remaining relatively inexpensive. * They also use gamification to make their treatment options more appealing to the public. * They offer a subscription model for their products so that patients can do their rehab at home.

[34:48] Learning About Pain * Pain diagnosis is still largely unscientific and arbitrary. * However, technology is developing at such a rapid rate. We will soon be able to predict who will experience pain after surgery. * We will be able to relieve pain before it happens using neurofeedback. * Richard’s company is looking into anxiety, depression, and concussions. Tune in to the full episode to know more about how they plan to apply their research on concussions!

[38:59] The Disconnect Between Tech Projects and Medicine * The medical technology field is heavily regulated. * It costs millions to get products out to the market, making people hesitant to invest in them. * Most technologies still fail, so having a burning passion for helping patients is necessary if you want to survive in the field. * Shareholder alignment is crucial when it comes to funding medical innovations.

[45:50] The Opiate Crisis * Due to the opiate crisis, pharmaceutical companies are now recognising that they need to do something different. * This issue needs the joint efforts of the private sector and the government to be resolved.

[47:18] Getting their Device to Market * They are currently in clinical trials, which are the value of a company. * Exsurgo hopes to launch the product sometime early next year and make it as affordable as possible. * They were surprised by the number of people with chronic pain hoping to get a hold of their product. So, they are aiming to keep up on the production side. * Richard shares that he made many mistakes and rode the ups and downs before getting to this point. * A crucial piece of his current success is choosing and working with the right investors and clinicians.

[1:00:14] The Technology Behind their Work * Brain-computer interfaces are all about understanding the patterns and applying them to solve various medical issues. * Every time someone uses their device, they get millions of lines of data. The more data they gather, the more they can improve their technology. * Listen to the full episode to learn exactly how the product works and what the whole team does to develop it!

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Our kind of basic mission is to make life easier for clinicians and patients while getting a better result and saving money. If we can do those things, then we've done something fantastic.’

‘If I can make the clinicians' life easier, and the patient's life easier to fit into both of their workflows, their daily life, while getting a good result and saving money, then we have something that would be worth doing.’

'We all know what it's like when you have exercises to do by the doctor or the physio, we don't want to do them, you know, so gamification actually really helps with that.'

‘It'd be easier to give up than it would be to keep going, I'm sure in a lot of the things that you do. It's that passion, and it's a drive, and it's that connection to the patients, once you see it, you can't unsee it.’

‘Make lots of mistakes. Keep trying. You don't start off on that journey. I wasn't sitting on an oil rig one day, and I knew I'm going to build some medical device companies.’

'The patients are too important. I couldn't live with myself if I gave up on this journey because patients are going to suffer.’

‘There's a brilliant team behind all of this, you know, there's so many specialties and so many different things. They're all driven by that same passion to actually help people at the end of the day, and it will affect millions, 10s of millions of people's lives over the next coming years.’

About Richard Richard Little is an innovator, entrepreneur, engineer, and roboticist. He is the CEO of Exsurgo, a neurofeedback company. They are developing a cutting-edge device that could revolutionise the way we deal with chronic pain and improve the lives of millions of people worldwide.

He has held different directorships and C-level positions in engineering, military, and medical businesses. One of these is Rex Bionics, where they developed an exoskeleton that could provide mobility to wheelchair-bound patients.

If you want to learn more about Richard and his work in the medical technology space, visit his company website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the future of pain relief.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

How can we hack the human body to reach its full potential — and beyond? Right now, we can't stop aging. However, we can slow it down by optimising our health to lead long and fulfilling lives. One day, we may even be able to age backwards. Through biohacking, we can use the latest medical research to our body's advantage.

Dave Asprey, the Father of Biohacking and longevity expert, joins us in this episode. Working with renowned doctors and scientists, Dave has created a solution to innovate and hack our systems to push the limits of what the human body can do. He also shares advice on fasting, longevity, and the measures he takes to live a long and healthy life.

If you want to learn more about biohacking to improve your health and well-being, then this episode is for you! You’ll find out what it takes to live a longer and more fulfilling life.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third-party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how Dave Asprey started the biohacking movement. 2. Discover more about the science of fasting and how this can be beneficial for those who want to live longer. 3. Dave Asprey shares his takes on anti-aging research and the current state of the pharmaceutical industry.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #196: Rethinking the Function of Mitochondria for Our Health with Dr Elizabeth Yurth * Connect with Dave Asprey: Facebook | Twitter | Youtube | Instagram | LinkedIn | website * Bulletproof * + Bulletproof Coffee * Bulletproof Radio * + How to Live Your Life After Great Loss – Amanda Kloots with Dave Asprey * Check out Dave’s books: * + Head Strong + The Better Baby Book + Fast This Way + The Bulletproof Diet + Super Human * Enrol for free: Dave Asprey 14-Day Sleep Challenge * Moldy documentary

Episode Highlights [05:15] Dave’s Journey to Becoming the Father of Biohacking * In his mid-20’s, Dave already exhibited the diseases of aging. * He tried exercising and going on a diet to lose weight. However, Dave didn’t reap the results he wanted. * With his experience in Silicon Valley, Dave started to look at his body's systems as a hacker would. * This change in perspective led to the birth of biohacking. Since then, he has shared his findings with the world through his programs, speaking engagements, products, and books.

[10:37] What Fasting Can Do For You * For ten years, Dave worked with a community of people teaching intermittent fasting as part of the Bulletproof Diet. * Autophagy is when the body cleans out old cells and old proteins. * You don't get the full effects of autophagy if you eat three meals a day or consume carbohydrates and sugars. * There are different benefits to having periods where you go without eating food. * Fasting is not about suffering; it’s about knowing how not to be hungry as you fast.

[14:51] Biohacking Tips on Fasting * Have black coffee in the morning. This drink amplifies your body's ability to make ketones. * You can also choose to add grass-fed butter and MCT oil. The combination gives you more hunger suppressants. * Finally, you can add prebiotic fibre to your black coffee. It’s a fibre that doesn’t raise your insulin and blood sugar levels. * As long as you don’t have any protein and carbs that raise insulin, your body remains in a fasted state.

[18:32] Fasting From All Sorts of Things * Fasting from oxygen, which is called ‘breathwork’, is a big part of biohacking. * We could choose to go without the things that are causing the biological effects we don’t want. * Fasting is about what you're trying to achieve, like getting rid of harmful proteins in your body to bring in good nutrients.

[20:07] How to Deal with LPS * When a living organism feels threatened, they react in three ways: fear, food, and fertility. You either run away, eat everything, or ensure the survival of your species. * Fasting threatens your gut bacteria. In response to fasting, they secrete toxins called lipopolysaccharides (LPS) to keep the other bacteria from competing. * In response, your liver will ask for sugar to oxidise the LPS. * Fasting can make your gut bacteria unhappy and cause cravings. Toxin binders like activated charcoal work incredibly well to counteract this effect. * According to Dave, activated charcoals induces a 15% life extension in rats who take it regularly.

[23:30] On Supplements to Take When Fasting * Your fat stores toxins. If you’re losing weight, you’re gaining toxins unless you bind them. * Advanced supplements include senolytics and spermidine.

  • Spermidine was not readily available before; it used to be a very expensive research chemical.
  • Dave instead took probiotics from Japan that helped his body make spermidine.
  • A chapter in Fast This Way has a list of safe, effective supplements to use during a fast.

[26:15] Fasting is Like Exercising * While fasting, you need a certain amount of oxidative stress. * If you were to remove all the stressors during a fast, you won't get the benefits of fasting.

[28:41] The Paradigm Shift in Our Medical System * Dave traces back the problem to when the FTC allowed pharmaceutical companies to advertise in the US. * We're good at recognising short-term patterns but terrible at seeing long term consequences. * Our reactions to COVID are exaggerated. In reality, the actual risk is much lower. * However, pharmaceutical companies amplify the risk because they make money from governments through the virus. * We need to take the pharmaceutical companies away from the doctors.

[34:57] Being Vi-Curious * Dave was not opposed to vaccines before the pandemic. He identifies himself as vi-curious, or vaccine industry curious. * In Superhuman, Dave writes about the four big killers. He notes that he’s looking forward to getting well-tested vaccines for these diseases. * Having this conversation about being preventative and optimising your health is necessary to understand how our biology works. * There are some unknown risks to both the vaccines and the virus.

  • Being vi-curious means you’re in the middle of those who are vaccine-promiscuous and anti-vaxxers. It’s where 90% of the people are.

[40:35] Doing Something We Don’t Want to Do * We’re stiff-armed into doing things we don’t necessarily want to do. * You don’t have to react with anxiety or fear. Instead, you can react with intelligence, logic, and thought. * We have a long history of not having as much control as we want. * Medical freedom is one of the most precious rights. It means you have a right to decide what you put into your body.

[42:00] Dave’s Take on Longevity * Dave believes that he can live until he’s 180. * If we don't destroy the planet, we can do 50% better than today because of all the constant advancements in technology and research. * We are cracking the core biology behind aging and our ability to replenish our systems. * Sooner or later, technology that was once expensive will be more readily available. * Dave aims to show the effectiveness of these technologies. By increasing demand and supply, prices will drop.

[47:11] Individuals Over 60 Tend to Be Happier * When we're young, we worry about what everyone else is thinking about us. * Then, when we’re middle-aged, we’re more concerned about what we think of others. * However, when we're old, we realise people don't think about us as much. People who have enough energy and don't have medical problems at this age tend to be much happier. * Dave hopes that we can go back to awake and powerful elders. * The goal of the anti-aging community is to have people whose brains work like young people but have the wisdom of age.

[49:15] How Dave Asprey Creates an Impact * For five years, Dave taught at the University of California and worked at the company that held Google’s first servers. * Biology behaves very much like how the internet does. If you can hack a system, that means you can hack the human body. * These experiences prepared Dave to start the biohacking movement. * If what you’re teaching is efficient and you keep sharing it, you can build a movement of your own. * Doing so takes a lot of time and energy, so it has to be worth it. In Dave’s case, it is.

7 Powerful Quotes

‘Fasting isn't a lack of energy going into the body. Fasting is going without. And the hallmarks of fasting are insulin doesn't go up. And your levels of something called mTOR don't go up.’

'Maybe you're in the middle. In fact, I will tell you right now, 90% of people are in the middle. And it's the angry people who yell at the extreme anti-vax and the extreme vaccine promiscuous side — they're bullies.'

‘You're already stiff-armed into doing all sorts of stuff you don't want to do it. But you don't have to react with anxiety or fear. You can react with intelligence, and logic, and thought.’

‘Medical freedom is one of the most precious rights. That means you have a right to choose what you put into your body and what you don't put in your body from a food perspective, from a supplements perspective, and from a pharmaceutical perspective.’

‘We are cracking the core biology behind aging and our ability to replenish and repair and rejuvenate our systems. So it's your job: age a little bit less quickly, prepare yourself a little bit better. Every year, the technology gets better and better.’

‘People who have enough energy and don't have medical problems as they age tend to be much happier because they've learned the skill of being happy. It turns out we can teach our younger people that, and the way we've always done that is through coming-of-age rituals.’

‘The more successful you are, the more the crazy 5% sociopaths and psychopaths yell and scream and complain online.’

About Dave Dave Asprey is an entrepreneur, author, host of Bulletproof Radio, and founder of Bulletproof. He is widely known as the Father of Biohacking. Over the last 20 years, Dave has worked with numerous medical and scientific experts to uncover and develop innovative methods to push the potentials of the human body. Through this, he has created the Bulletproof Diet and innovated Bulletproof Coffee and other wellness products.

Dave has also written extensively on his experiences with biohacking technologies and research. He’s a four-time New York Times best-selling author. His mission is to empower individuals worldwide on the techniques of biohacking to lead long and fulfilling lives.

You can reach Dave on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, and LinkedIn. You can also check out his website and Bulletproof to know more about him and his work.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your connections, so they can find out how biohacking can help them lead long and fulfilling lives.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We live in a fast-paced world, with more everyday demands. And we know that we need good health to keep up. Nutrition, exercise, and mindfulness are often hailed as important pillars. However, there is something even more fundamental for better health—sleep. Sleep ensures we can actually perform. With better sleep, we’ll be living better lives. But, how many of us actually prioritise sleep?

Dr Kirk Parsley joins us in this episode to explain how sleep affects our lives. Poor sleep can significantly change our bodies and performance. He also shares that we can achieve good sleep through lifestyle changes. A better life is not about taking more supplements or using gadgets and tools; it’s about creating new and better habits.

If you want to know more about the science of sleep and how sleep affects our lives, then this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how sleep affects our lives and why it is so fundamental to our health. 2. Understand that it’s more important to change our behaviours and lifestyle rather than depending on supplements. 3. Discover the ways we can create the right conditions for better sleep.

Resources * Get Dr Kirk’s Sleep Remedy here! * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness! * Listen to my other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + Episode with Mark Divine * Connect with Dr Kirk: Website I LinkedIn I Instagram I Facebook I Email * You can also get the free downloadable resource on decreasing stress before sleep here. * The Unbeatable Mind Podcast with Mark Divine * + Dr. Kirk Parsley - How to Supercharge Your Sleep + Dr. Kirk Parsley on Sleep And Longevity * Melatonin Supplementation with Dr John Lieurance in the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast. * Melatonin: The Miracle Molecule by Dr John Lieurance * Dr Harch’s Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy * America’s Frontline Doctors * How to save the world, in three easy steps. from Bret Weinstein’s DarkHorse Podcast

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme, all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer Without Burnout & Injuries

Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles?

Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler?

​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, goals, and lifestyle?

Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you.

If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an NAD+ precursor

Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time.

What is NMN?

NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that can boost the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life.

Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements of the highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today.

Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today.

Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all

  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules
  • NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules
  • 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules

Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combats the effects of aging while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility

Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined * Cellular Health * Energy & Focus * Bone Density * Skin Elasticity * DNA Repair * Cardiovascular Health * Brain Health * Metabolic Health

My ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection, 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Episode Highlights [03:28] How Dr Kirk Started Working on Sleep * Dr Kirk used to work for the SEALs. Later on, he enrolled in the military’s medical school. * After getting his degree, Dr Kirk became the manager of a sports medicine facility for the military. Here, he worked with other medical experts. * Those in the military will usually lie to healthcare providers so they won’t get excluded from work, but they tend to be more honest with Dr Kirk because they have worked with him before. * After testing for vitamin deficiencies and adrenal fatigue, Dr Kirk realised that many of his patients were taking Ambien, a sleeping drug. * After learning more about sleep, Dr Kirk realised that every symptom his patients were presenting could be explained by poor sleeping.

[17:31] Sleep’s Various Cycles * With a sleep drug, you are just unconscious and not sleeping. * Proper sleep needs to go through a repetitive pattern of deep sleep at the beginning of the night and then REM sleep by morning. * The different cycles are important since they affect our bodies in different ways. * Sleep can help boost your immunity and memory! Learn more benefits in the full episode.

[20:12] How Sleep Affects Our Lives * If you don’t give yourself time to recover, sleep pressure can accumulate and have progressively worse effects. * If you go to bed with high stress hormones, this can worsen your sleep. Poor sleep then leads to higher stress levels, and the cycle gets worse. * People who get poor sleep age faster, not just in appearance but also in their physiology. * Poor sleep can lead to protein structure breakdown, decreased blood supply, aged tissues, and more. * As we age, we also face the problem of not repairing as fast. This is how sleep affects our lives.

[23:56] The Foundation For Better Health * We are often taught the basics of health are sleep, nutrition, exercise, and stress management. * However, these pillars cannot function without sleep as their foundation, emphasising how sleep affects our lives. * For example, exercise becomes counterproductive when you’re sleep deprived because you’re not recovering. * Poor sleep can also change your insulin sensitivity and gut biome, which changes your nutrition levels. Because of how sleep affects our lives, it should be our priority. * Sleep deprivation is the fastest way to break someone down, this is why it’s used as an interrogation technique.

[28:35] How Do We Sleep? * We need eight hours of sleep a night. * Make your sleeping routine simple. The more complex it is, the more likely you will fail. * First, convince yourself that sleep is important. * We are all born to sleep, and we don’t need to learn how. * Before electricity, people used to fall asleep three hours after sunset. Tune in to the full episode to learn more about the neurochemical process of sleep.

[35:36] Creating the Right Conditions for Sleep * During sleep, our senses still work, but they don’t pay as much attention to external stimuli. * For our ancestors, the sunset will lead to decreased blue light, decreased temperature, decreased stimuli, and increased melatonin. * Better sleep is just creating these conditions in our environment. * If we take melatonin, we should be careful to take only small amounts.

[39:20] Melatonin Supplementation * Some have argued that melatonin supplementation does not downregulate our brain receptors, but there are no definitive studies on this yet. * In fact, measuring melatonin is difficult due to its quantity and concentration in each part of the brain. * It’s okay to take melatonin supplements but not in physiologic amounts.

[45:15] Can We Reverse Aging? * You need to understand your genetics and what ratios will work for you. * While good habits and supplements can improve your overall health, we don’t know if it undoubtedly reverses age. * Our bodies are more complex than we think. Shorting yourself two hours of sleep can change over 700 different epigenetic markers. * We can only describe biology. We don’t know how to manipulate it most of the time. * Dr Kirk also shares his experience with hyperbaric oxygen therapy in the full episode.

[1:03:36] Paradigm Shifts in the Medical Industry * There is a lot of dishonesty in both the media and the medical industry. * Many doctors and medical experts have been silenced on potentially better cures, especially during this pandemic. * Western medicine is effective in treating the sick, but it doesn’t keep people from getting severely sick in the first place. * A lifestyle change is more important than taking supplements.

[1:12:22] The Importance Of Behaviour Change * People often don’t want to work on their behaviour because taking medicine is easier. * We also need to be aware of how the food industry is tapping into our addictive mechanisms to keep us eating more. * Caffeine consumption can also ruin our sleep. More than 200 milligrams can give the opposite effect of staying awake and alert. * Learn exactly how sleep affects our lives, together with caffeine and sugar consumption, when you listen to the full episode.

[1:19:40] Widespread Impressions on Sleep and How It Affects Our Lives * People have grown to believe that sleep is for the weak and lazy. * This belief also impacts our children, especially since they are still developing. * Losing two hours of sleep can decrease testosterone and growth hormone by 30% and increase inflammation by 30%, among others. * Dr Kirk delved into researching how sleep affects kids after giving a lecture for American kids overseas to professionals in the school system. * Kids’ brains are still developing. The prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that allows us to simulate things, experiences a shift during adolescence.

[1:26:34] How Sleep Affects Our Lives as Kids

  • Dr Kirk delved into researching how sleep affects kids after giving a lecture for American kids overseas to professionals in the school system.
  • Kids’ brains are still developing. The prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that allows us to simulate things, is formed during adolescence.
  • Furthermore, adolescents also require more sleep because of a shift in their circadian rhythm.
  • Requiring kids to do more with less sleep interferes with their development.

[1:31:40] How Sleep Affects Our Lives When We are Sick * A new field in medicine called chronobiology is studying how sleep deprivation precedes any psychiatric disease or psychological flare-up. * An Ivy League hospital managed to get their patients off medication by regulating their circadian rhythm and chronobiology.

[1:34:34] It’s More Than Switching Things On and Off * Medications can be difficult to get off because they have too many side effects. * For example, most antidepressants are not just working on serotonin. Instead, they affect several neurotransmitters as well. * Physiological doses are artificial and can cause you more trouble. * Learn how sleep medication and affects GABA receptors that slow down the brain when you listen to the full episode.

[1:41:17] Dr Kirk’s Sleep Remedy

  • Dr Kirk discusses how cavemen took around three hours after the sun went down to fall asleep. In the present day, what can people do in those three hours?
  • To fall asleep, stress hormones need to come down due to lifestyle.
  • Dr Kirk’s Sleep Remedy involves getting the proper ratios of substances.
  • His product comes in the form of tea, stick pouches, and capsules.

[1:46:27] Dr Kirk’s Final Advice

  • Change your environment by decreasing blue light and stimulation.
  • Learn to slow everything down.
  • Just like how you slow everything down to get a kid to sleep, so should you do the same for an adult.

7 Powerful Quotes

‘You aren’t actually sleeping when you're on sleep drugs. You're just unconscious. Your brain is dissociated, but it's not sleep.’

‘Often, if you're sleep-deprived, more is worse for sure. You don't really need to do any exercises. You just stay active until you've recovered, and then you can exercise again.’

‘Insulin sensitivity is decreased by 30%, just by losing two hours of sleep. One night with two hours of sleep. So you go from sleeping eight hours of sleep to six. If you're pre-diabetic, you're waking up diabetic.’

‘Even though I'm known for sleep, the hardest thing for me to coach people to do is to sleep.’

‘The most sleep-deprived years are the most horrible years of the brain development.’

‘Get rid of the blue light. Decrease the stimulation. Lower your body temperature. That’s sleep hygiene.’

‘Part of lowering stress is just slowing down your thinking. You can't work on your computer until 9:59 and get in bed in 10 and think you're gonna be asleep.’

About Dr Kirk Dr Kirk Parsley was a former Navy SEAL who went on to earn his medical degree from Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences (USUHS) in Bethesda in 2004. From 2009 to 2013, he served as an Undersea Medical Officer at the Naval Special Warfare Group One. He also served as the Naval Special Warfare’s expert on sleep medicine.

Dr Kirk has been a member of the American Academy of Sleep Medicine since 2006 and consults for multiple corporations and professional athletes. He gives lectures worldwide on wellness, sleep, and hormonal optimisation. He believes that many diseases and disorders are unnecessary complications of poor sleeping habits. We can achieve the highest quality of life possible by changing this habit problem.

Interested in Dr Kirk’s work? Check out his website.

You can also reach him on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and email.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how sleep affects our lives and what we can do about it.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by www.lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hey everyone! And welcome to Pushing The Limits. This week, I have another amazing guest for you. I managed to get some incredible people. I have Dr Kirk Parsley with me. He is an ex-Navy SEAL, and also a medical doctor. A little bit of an overachiever, this one. He spent many years in the SEALs, an incredible man. He also was involved with the first sports medicine rehabilitation centre that was working with the SEALs, an incredible expert on sleep. And that's what we do a deep dive into today. We also talk about hyperbaric oxygen therapy. We also go into areas about the current state of the medical system, one of my favourite topics. And I hope you enjoy this episode. It’s really, the most important thing is around sleep.

Sleep is something that all of us, I think, are underestimating its importance. And that this is the biggest lever, not food, not exercise, not meditation, not mindfulness, not anything else. Number one of all leverage points is sleep. So how the heck do you get enough sleep? What is enough sleep, and how to get it is what this episode is about.

Before we head over, I just want to remind you we have Boost Camp coming up. This is our eight-week live online program. There, Neil Wagstaff and I, my business partner and longtime friend and coach are doing. And we're going to, if you want to come and hang out with us live every week and learn everything about upgrading your life, basically, your performance, how to optimise all areas of your life, then we would love you to check the information out, head over to peakwellnessco.nz/boostcamp.

On that point, if you're also interested, come and check out our flagship program, which is our epigenetics program, where we look at your genetics, and how to optimise those specifically, all the areas of your life: your food, your nutrition, your exercise, your mood, and behaviour, your hormones, all these important areas, specifically to your genetics. One-on-one time with us and help us to understand everything about your genetics. It's an incredible platform and amazing AI technology behind us. And we'd love you to check that out.

Go to peakwellnessco.nz/epigenetics. Or reach out to me if you didn't get that. We will also have the links down in the show notes, if you want to just click over to that. Or you can just head over to my website, www.lisatamati.com. And hit the work with us button for our programs listed on there as well. So without further ado, now over to Dr Kirk Parsley.

Well, hi, everybody! And welcome to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have a superstar, who is a good friend of Commander Mark Divine, you may have heard previous weeks on my podcast. We have Dr Kirk Parsley with us today. Welcome to the show.

Dr Kirk Parsley: Thank you. I feel very welcome and happy to be here. I'm still here. I’m happy to be sharing this airspace with you or whatever it is sharing.

Lisa: I’m really super excited. I've heard you a number of times on Mark’s show and just thought how hefty you're on because you're such an expert. We're gonna dive into a little bit into your background, but you're an absolute sleep expert. So I'm really keen to help my audience with their sleep, and their sleep patterns, and all of that good stuff. But before we get into that, we were just chatting about genetics and endurance. So, give us a little background. You've been a Navy SEAL. You've been in the military, in the naval military. So give us a bit of background on yourself, personally.

Dr Kirk: Yes. So ironically, I actually dropped out of high school. I was a terrible student my whole life, didn't have any interest in school. And after you don't do well for long enough, you just convince yourself that you can't do well. And so you're just, ‘I'm just done. I can’t do it’. I was always very physical, very athletic. Just fortunately, genetic lottery, I won, just be an athletic and strong guy. And it came pretty easy to me. But I worked hard at it because I didn't do school work. So when I dropped out of high school, to join the military and do the hardest training in the world. And that was what the SEAL training was supposed to be, as the toughest training in the world like, ‘Well, I'm gonna go do that.’ So I went to do that.

This was a way long time ago. This is 1988. So, it was long before anybody knew what SEALs were. They didn't have the notoriety they have now for sure. And when I would come home from the Navy and tell people as I was a Sealer, like, ‘What do you mean, you work for SeaWorld or something? What do you do?’ Kinda. So, I went through SEAL training, I would say I made it through SEAL training, I became a SEAL. That was pre-9/11, obviously. So we didn't have the combat that the SEALs of this generation do. So it's not really comparable. We were still mainly working in Southeast Asia doing police work and training other militaries.

I did three deployments. It was really the same thing over, and over, and over again because there was no combat. So you just did the same training, and then you deployed, and then came home, and you did the same training. And of course, I was like, ‘Maybe, I'll go do something else.’ And I thought I would be—I was dating a woman who would become my wife. She was getting a master's in physical therapy. And I was reading her textbooks on deployment to make myself a better athlete. And I thought, maybe I could be a physical therapist. And so I started working, I started volunteering in a physical therapy facility in San Diego, called San Diego Sports Medicine Center. And it had every kind of health care provider you could possibly imagine. And this building, it’s just this healthcare Mecca. It’s the most holistic thing I've ever seen to this day.

I decided pretty quickly, I didn't want to be a physical therapist, but I don’t know what else I wanted to do. But I got to follow the podiatrist around, and acupuncturist, and massage therapists, and athletic trainers, and conditioning coaches, and the orthopedist, and the family practice, and the sportsmen. I just got to follow them around and see how everybody worked. And a group of young doctors there, who were probably only five or six years older than me, and they were saying, ‘Well, you should go to medical school.’ And I was like, ‘Pump the brakes, kiddo. I didn't even graduate high school. I'm not getting into medical school.’ And then the senior doctor overhears the conversation. He comes out of the office. And he says, ‘Kirk, the question isn't, “Can you get in?” The question is, “Would you go if you've got in?”’ And I said, ‘Of course, I’d go.’ So, well, there you have it. So, he sort of shamed me into it/

I studied hard and got really good grades. And then when it came time to apply for medical school, this was pre-Internet, so you had to go to the bookstore and get your book review and look and see what schools are competitive for. And when I was going through one of those books, I found out that the military had their medical school. The military was a closed chapter in my mind. I'd done that. That’s something that I figured I'd always do in my life. But it was never meant to be my whole life. And so I had done that. I was, I figured I was done. But I was already married and had kids. And I was like, ‘Well, the military will pay me to go to medical school. Or I can pay someone else to go to medical school and my wife can work while we're in medical school.’

I made enough to support my family and go to medical school for free. And then to pay off in the military’s, they'll train you to do anything. You have to give them years of service and your job. So once you finish your medical training, you have to be a doctor for the military for eight years. And so I figured, ‘I'll get back to the SEAL teams, I'll go pay something back to the community that helped me, was hugely formidable in who I became in my life.’ And went back to the SEAL teams, really well-prepped to do sports medicine and orthopedics. And I knew quite a bit about nutrition, and performance, and strength and conditioning. I was pretty sure I had the exact pedigree.

When I got there, they had just gotten the money to build a sports medicine facility, which was actually their vision was exactly what I told you that I worked in in college. That's exactly what they wanted to build. I'm like, ‘I got this.’ So they put me in charge of building this out. And I was a significant part of us hiring everyone we hired. So we hired our first strength and conditioning coach, our first nutritionist, our first PT, our first everything.

We built our own sports medicine facility. And then orthopedics was coming through every week, and they had to do rounds there. And we'd have pain rounds, pain management rounds come through. We had an acupuncturist coming through. And we hired all these people from the Olympic Training Center, and professional sports teams, and the best colleges. And so, we had all these brilliant people who knew way more than I did about what they do.

Lisa: So you went from there to there.

Dr Kirk: Yeah. And so at that point, I was the dumbest person around, right? Because we had all these experts in every little niche that I knew this much about. We hired experts who knew that much about. And so in the military, when you're the dumbest guy, they put you in charge, right and say, ‘Well, you manage this,’ right? And so, I’m managing all these people who know more than I do, however that works. But my office was in this facility that we built.

The SEALs are a lot like professional athletes in that you put them on a bench, so to speak, right? Because they're injured, they need some help. So they can't work. It's the worst thing. Worst thing. So when they see a health care provider, they just lie because they don't want to be—

Lisa: They don’t wanna be taken out.

Dr Kirk Parsley: They will take money out of their pocket, and go into the city, and find a doctor to treat them so that the doctor at work doesn't know, so they don't get put on the sideline. But because I was a SEAL, and there were still a lot of SEALs at the SEAL team. It was close enough to my time. There are still a lot of SEALs at the team who I worked with, and I trained with, and deployed with. And so they knew me. And I had a good reputation. And so they trusted me, and they come in my office and they say, ‘Let me tell you what's going on with me.’

They reported this litany of symptoms that didn't have any pattern that I could recognise. And so they were saying that their motivation was low, that they're very moody, that they couldn't concentrate. They're super forgetful. Their energy was low. Their body composition was shifting. They felt slower, and dumber, and colder. None of them were sleeping very well. They're all taking sleep drugs. They had low sex drive. They had a lot of joint pain, a lot of inflammation. And I didn't have the slightest idea. I’m like, ‘And I know it sounds like you're obese and 65. But I’m looking at you and you’re not. So I don't know what's going on.’

I just started testing everything I could possibly test. I tested literally 98 blood markers. They were giving 17 vials of blood. Now just shotgun approaches, test everything, and see what's abnormal. And I started seeing some patterns. And they had really low anabolic hormones, so the DBTA, and testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone, pregnenolone. All of that was low. They really have high inflammatory markers. They really had poor insulin sensitivity for how healthy I knew they were, and how well they ate, and how much they exercised. But it's still within the normal range. But it wasn't. Everything was in the normal range. But everything that should be really high was just like barely in the normal range. And everything that should be really low, it's just barely inside of that range.

They didn't have a disease. And I was a medical doctor, so I had learned how to treat disease, then they didn't have disease. So I was like, ‘I don’t know. What am I going to do?’ So that led me to having to train with outside providers. And fortunately, at that time, the SEALs did have the reputation. They'd already done all these amazing things. This was in 2009. So, I think they'd already shot Bin Laden and at that point. So I could call anybody, right? I'd watch somebody’s TED Talk, read their book, I'd see them lecture. And I’ll just call them and say, ‘I’m a doctor for the West Coast SEAL team. Could I come train with you? Can I consult with you? Can I ask you some questions?’ And everybody was generous and said, ‘Absolutely’. So I get to learn a lot really quickly.

I take a lot of leave from work and just go sit in these guys’ clinics for four or five days. And just pick their brain, go see patients with them, and take notes, and learn. And then I just call them every time I have a question. And I just got to learn really quickly. It’s like this team of experts who knew everything about the alternative world.

I was trying to treat people for adrenal fatigue. And I was trying to treat people for vitamin and mineral deficiencies, which are obvious from what was going on. And I couldn't quite figure out what it was. And about 100 patients into it, and probably after 30 guys came in, I could have told everybody, they could just sit down. I'll tell you what you're going to tell me. I could have just just route it off; it's so similar. And about 100 guys into it, embarrassing that it took so long, but I remember this guy telling me that he took Ambien every night. What do you guys call it? Stilnox, I think, right?

I was married to an Aussie, so I know a lot. I mean, I know you're not an Aussie, but I know a little bit about your world, as in your language. And I remember putting a note in the margin, ‘Seems like a lot of guys take an Ambien.’ Then I go back through everybody's records, 100% of the guys who had been in my office were taking Ambien. So I thought, ‘Well, maybe that's an issue, right?’ So, let me go look at the side effects of Ambien. And it was a fairly new drug. And the pharmaceutical industry, they get to cherry-pick their data. So they were like, ‘Oh, it's the safest drug ever. There's nothing, no problems.’ And I'm like, ‘I don’t quite believe that.’

Unfortunately, like every other doctor in America, I didn't know anything about sleep. I never had a single class on sleep in medical school, didn't have the foggiest idea what should be happening. I knew what you called a mechanism of action on this drug, which means molecularly what does it do. Well, it binds GABA receptors and has an effect called GABA analog, and benzodiazepines are the same, things like Valium. And so that's about as much as I knew, Well, what is GABA doing? What is GABA supposed to do? And then you can't really understand that without understanding what's actually going on in sleep.

Then, I had to learn about sleep physiology. And what's supposed to happen during sleep? And what are the normal shifts and changes? And what does that do? And if that doesn't happen, what effects do you get? So after studying quite a bit, I figured out the general Occam's razor principle of the thing with the least assumptions is, literally, every single symptom that these men told me about, could be explained by poor sleep.

Now, I didn't think that it would be, right? I wasn't naive, but it could have, then, right? So if this was definitely the most powerful thing, because being a Western doctor I wanted to give them Cortef and raise their cortisol. I wanted to give them testosterone and raise their testosterone. I wanted to get like, I wanted to give them medication to improve their insulin sensitivity. I wanted to just go in there and do it. But I couldn't do that, right? Because you can't give SEALs medication that they're dependent upon. Because then, what if they go out on the field, and they don't have their medication, they can't do their job and it’s a waste. So that puts people on the bench, that disqualifies people. So I couldn't do that.

I had to figure out, well, what else can I do? So like I said, sleep seemed like the unifying theory. So let me see about that. And this was right around the time that everybody was catching on to the important vitamin B3. And that was associated with poor sleep. So, I tested all my guys. Every one of them had low vitamin B3. So I'm like, ‘Yeah, I'm going to give them vitamin B3. I'm going to be a hero. Everyone is gonna love me. I'm the best doctor ever.’ And it helped a little bit. But it wasn't everything.

Like I said, I had this epiphany with this sleep drug. And once I learned enough about the sleep drug, you aren't actually sleeping when you're on sleep drugs. You're just unconscious. Your brain is dissociated, but it's not sleep. Because sleep has to have, as one of its criteria, you have to have this predictable sleep architecture. You have to be going through these sleep cycles that take you through these different stages. And a particular pattern is repetitive, and it's primarily deep sleep in the beginning of the night, and almost exclusively REM sleep by morning, and you have to do that transition.

If you don't do that, then it's not sleep. It can be partially sleep, if you're just getting poor sleep. But I was having these guys do sleep studies. And they were coming back with 99.9% of their sleep study being stage 2 sleep, which is just the transition. It’s what we call a transitional sleep phase. So it's not deep sleep or REM. So they weren't really getting any of the benefits of sleep. And of course, that's an oversimplification. They're obviously getting something, or they'd be dead. But we don't know what they're getting.

That’s all we know is that healthy sleep does this, and when you go through these cycles, we know these things happen. Like when you're in deep sleep, we know that's when you're the most anabolic, and you're secreting your anabolic hormones like growth hormone, and testosterone, and DHEA is being ramped up, your immune system’s being ramped up. We know this happens. And then we know in REM sleep, what's going on in the brain: the physiological changes, forming more durable neural tracks, that neurological memories, shifting things from working memory into long term memory, pruning off useless information, these little buttons that grow on the side of your nerves that are starting to bud new information. You're like, ‘I don't need that.’ You clean up all that. You get rid of weak products and you get the brain working better.

The whole purpose of going to sleep tonight is to prepare myself for tomorrow, right? Whatever I do today, that's what my brain and body are gonna think it needs to do tomorrow. It's gonna use today as a template to try to make me better tomorrow at doing what I did today. And if I don't get enough sleep, if I don't get to restore, I still have to do tomorrow. And how do I do that? Well, I do it the same way you do anything. I’m stressed out. I use Marinol and a bunch of cortisol and DHEA. And I start robbing all my nutrients for my cells. My blood glucose is going up, I'm getting fuel sources that way, epinephrine and norepinephrine stimulate my brain and my tissues to be able to get energy where there’s really no energy there. And then I'm going to bed with these really high stress hormones, which are supposed to be low when I sleep, and then I'm trying to sleep with high stress hormones. Then, I get worse sleep. Then, I need more stress hormones tomorrow. And that's what breaks people.

In fact, when you see somebody who doesn't sleep well for even six months, they look so much older. ‘Why does he look old? That doesn't make sense. Is it just because they're tired? Is it tired old?’ But if you think about it, you're born into this contract. You're born into this contract; you can't get around. It's just like you're born knowing you're going to die, 100% certain you're going to die. There's also this other contract that certainly is your body ideally worked for about 16 hours, and it needs eight hours to recover. That's the way it works. That's what you're born into. There's small variations there. But obviously, you can't get around that.

If you don't get those 8 hours, you didn't recover from those 16 hours. And so if you think about it logically, obviously, when you're a kid, you need more sleep. So it's not a great example, when you're really young. Kids actually sleep a lot more than eight hours by and large, but you see them actually getting better every day, right? They're growing. They're getting smarter. They're getting more coordinated. You can see that every day. But if you think about, say, like, once you hit 25, and your brain’s fully formed, and everything's static. If you could recover 100% every night, and wake up the next morning as good as you were that other morning, you wouldn't age, right? There would be no aging because you would have recovered 100%.

Lisa: It’s very important, yep.

Dr Kirk: Everything that you're deficient in, if you're missing 10%, you're going to age that 10%. And if you're missing a little more, you're going to age faster. So when you see people who haven't been sleeping well for a year, they are literally older because they've been recovering less and less every night. So yeah, there's a breakdown in their protein structure. There's decrease in their blood supply, their peripheral vascularisation. Their tissues are aging. There’s a buildup of waste products that aren't getting out, and that's toxic. And that’s damaging the mitochondria and forming more senescent cells, and all these other things, they're building up. And every marker that we have, even genetic marker, when you look at your children and linked methylation on the genes. Every marker, they look older. And then when you look at them, they look older. That’s why.

That's really what aging is. It's really just the absence of being able to recover 100% every night. And as we get older, we just don't repair as fast. And that's, unfortunately, when most people quit sleeping as much. And now that's double whammy there. You're getting twice the aging effects that way. And there's no reason to sleep less when you’re old. It’s typical, but it's not something you have to do. I've had 84-year-old women who haven't slept more than 4 or 5 hours in 20 years, and I get them to sleep eight hours a night.

Lisa: I've got one over there who's rustling around, walking around behind me. She’s 80 years old, nearly. Hey, mum. And she's struggling with sleep in the early morning hours. And therefore, you know her memory and things. So I want to pick your brain on that. Can I just slow you down a little bit because we just covered a ton of ground here.

Dr Kirk: You just asked me about myself, and I just couldn't stop.

Lisa: No, but you were on an absolute roll. So I didn't want to interrupt you because there was so many things, but my brain’s just going like, ‘There's so many questions!’

Dr Kirk: That was just meant to be an overview.

Lisa: That was an overview. Now can we dive deeper into some of the weeds because now I understand why you've become, classically, the sleep expert because obviously that was the biggest leverage. In other words, this is the biggest leverage point that you see. When we think of the SEALs, we think of the SEALs as being these gods of amazingness that can do everything. But what you're saying is like these guys are pushing their limits: endurance, and in fatigue, and all things like that. And so they're going to be the Canaries in the Gold Mines in a way because they're going to be coming up against the limits of everything.

For you to say, as an ultra marathon, so I’ve come up against the limits in certain ways, like with sleep deprivation. And I sort of understand some of the things now that you were talking about. So you've ended up finding out that this is probably the biggest leverage point in anybody's life, basically, for their health is their sleep. So people, take a bit of a grip on that one. It's not necessarily the food or nutrition, it's the sleep. Would you agree?

Dr Kirk: When I first started lecturing, I used to say there were four pillars of health: sleep, nutrition, exercise. And then the fourth pillar is audience dependent. It could be mindfulness, stress medication, it could be community, whatever it is that controls your stress hormones, and your emotions, and your mood, and all that stuff. Then after a while, I shift to there's three pillars sitting on the foundation of sleep. Because if you take the sleep away, none of those are going to work. There’s nothing you can do. In fact, if you exercise when you're sleep deprived, it's counterproductive because you're not recovering. And we all know that you don't actually get better when you exercise. You damage yourself when you exercise.

Then when you sleep, you recover, and you come back stronger. When you deprive yourself of sleep, you change your entire gut biome, you change your insulin sensitivity. You change everything here. And now your nutritional status doesn't work anymore. And when you don't sleep well, as I said, you increase your stress hormones. So you can do the mindfulness training and all of that stuff, meditate and all that, but you're just going to bring yourself down maybe to where you would have been if you just slept well and didn't do any kind of training.

It's really the foundation for everything. And I say that all the time. It sounds hyperbolic, but I'm 100% convinced it’s true. There's nothing that you can do that will, nothing that will break you faster than poor sleep, and poor and insufficient sleep. There's a reason we use it as an interrogation technique.

Lisa: Exactly. Yeah.

Dr Kirk: There's a reason we break people down, intentionally, this way because it depletes all your resources. It interferes with your brain function, your willpower, your problem solving, your speech, your ability to formulate plans, your motivation, your mood. Everything goes almost instantaneously with one night of lack of asleep. Never mind keeping somebody up for three or four days in a row. They're just a mess. They’re just in input mode. They just want you to just, ‘Tell me whatever I have to do. I’d do it. Then I'll sleep. Anything I can do to get sleep, I'll do it.’ You don't have to rip people's fingernails out of stuff. You just deprive them from sleep.

Conversely, there's nothing that will improve the quality of your life and your performance faster than sleeping. Well, if you're an inadequate sleeper, which most people are. They don't even know they are. Everybody has these 30-day challenges and 60-day challenges. I'm like, ‘I only need seven days.’ Again, one week where sleep is your number one priority. And you do everything right, and you get eight hours of sleep, at least eight and a half hours in bed every night, and you're sleeping approximately eight hours a night. And give me that for a week. And then, if you're not convinced this the most powerful thing, go back to wherever you're going. But nobody's ever gone back.

Lisa: A lot of us, I can hear people saying, ‘Yeah, but I go to bed, and I can't sleep. And I wake up at 2 am. And my brain is racing and I've been told to do some meditation. And maybe it's my cortisol.’ Let's look now because if we haven't got the message across now that sleep is the number one thing that you should be prioritising about everything that you do, we haven't done very well for the last half an hour.

How do we sleep? What foods do we need to eat before we go to bed or not eat? What supplements can we take? You've got your sleep remedy that we'll get into a little bit. What routine can I do to optimise? What light-dark cycles? All of these things that can be leveraged points for us in optimising our sleep. And how do we test that we're actually in that deep-sleep phase? What are one of the best tools that you've found to work that out? So that was a mouthful, but yeah.

Dr Kirk: So the first thing we need to do is get away from that phonetic question right there, which is what everybody's going through in their heads up like, ‘What about this? What about that?’ And so my job is to make this really simple. Because simple things we can do, and the more nuanced your plan is around sleep, the more likely it is to fail. And we're doing big, macro movements here. So the very first thing is, what you said, I think we've already covered. The very first thing is to convince yourself that sleep is the most important thing. And to make it your priority for at least one week to get everything going.

Now, when I say your priority, I mean the true meaning of that word. There's only one thing there's nothing else, that’s the one, including raising your kids, and your dog, and your exercise routine, and everything else. The most important thing is to sleep. The most important thing for winning. If you aren't quite convinced yet go to PubMed, or go to Google Scholar, or something like this, then put in sleep and anything else you care about: being a parent, mood, dating, sex drive, athleticism, strength, endurance, concentration, memory, I don't care. Whatever it is you care about—strength and this, strength and business, strength and I don't care. Anything you want.

Read to your heart's content. It will convince you that the one good thing about sleep, in the sleep sciences, it’s not actually controversial. There's no one out there saying, ‘Oh, you don't really need to sleep.’ Everybody agrees. There's nuances and people are different. Everybody agrees you need about eight hours of sleep a night. And just convince yourself that is the most important thing. Once you're there, that's the most important thing.

After that, recognise, ‘Okay. I'm going to make this my number one priority.’ Recognise that you're born to sleep. You don't need to learn; you need to unlearn some stuff, right? You're designed to do this. And this should feel good. You should enjoy sleeping. You should usually look forward to going to bed and waking up in the morning, like, ‘Man, I feel so much better. I'm ready to go do my day.’ This should be as easy as selling sex but it's not. People resist this forever. I have no idea why. It's great. Why don't you like sleep? I’ve always liked sleep. So then you just think, ‘Okay, when did sleep go bad for humankind?’ Probably in the last seventy years.

Lisa: Yeah, when we got electric light.

Dr Kirk: That's about it, right? It's only been, really since rural electrification, right? Since they got electricity out to everybody. That's really when it started. When you look back in America just 100 years ago, look at people's journals in the winter, they spent like 14 hours a day in bed. That’s a certain thing they do. So if you think about it, and just say, ‘I know this is simple. I'm going to let myself fall into it.’ And then I'll tell you, there's all the sleep hygiene. You can get on the Internet, and you can find, ‘Oh, do this. Drink a hot cup of tea. Drink milk. Do this. Make your room really cold. Make your room really dark. Make your bed really soft. Make your bed really hard. And get a white noise machine. Get rid of all the EMF.’ A million people are going to tell you all sorts of different things to do. And I'll cut through all the BS, and then you can pick and choose.

The real answer is all of that stuff works, to some extent. All of that's important to some extent. The way I work with clients is at least 95% of all the successes is from lifestyle. And then all these little gadgets, and your mitigation tools, and supplements, and all this stuff back, that’s the other 5. It’s 95% behavioural. So you just look back, how did we evolve to sleep? Nobody teaches people how to sleep, right? You're born as a baby; you sleep. So how did we sleep as adults in cultures 100 years ago? Well, when the sun went down, we fell asleep about three hours later, and we woke up around the time the sun came up. It was pretty much that easy.

Okay, so let's reverse engineer that a little bit. I think most people know that blue light is a stimulus for being awake. We don't truly have a sleeping program. If you think of it like software, we don't have any sleeping software. We just have lack of awakening software. So we have things that go on in our brain and body that make us still awake and make us interact with our environment. And then when you take those things away, we're in what we call sleep.

The blue light, actually, has nothing to do with the vision. There's nerve cells in the back of your eyes. It senses blue light. That's all they do. And then they fire pathways back to the circadian pathway membrane, essentially. And then the pineal gland secretes melatonin. The melatonin is a hormone, the starter pistol. It initiates all these cascades. And then one of the cascades that it initiates is the production of this peptide called GABA, capital G-A-B-A, gamma-Aminobutyric acid. And what that does is it slows down the neocortex.

When you think of the human brain, the picture of the human brain, we all have that big, wrinkly, massive crescent shape. That's what we call the neocortex. And that is how we interact with the world, right? All of our senses get processed in that, and then all of our movement is processed from that, right? So when we're asleep, all that's really different with our sleep, about in a general sense, right? There's nuances in every neuron and every molecule. And then, in the neural sense, there's a barrier between us and our environment is how it's phrased. What it means is we aren't paying attention to our environment anymore. Our eyes obviously still work, right? You can turn the light and you can wake somebody up. Our ears still work, you can make your noise and wake somebody up. Our sense of touch still works. You can shake somebody. They can roll into something sharp, and their pain receptors will wake them up. Heat will wake them up. Cold will wake them. So we still work. Everything still works. We start processing it. We’re not paying attention to it.

What helps us do that is GABA. So GABA involves neurons. A neuron has what’s called a resting potential. So there's like an electrical current in here. And when you put in enough electrical current, it goes like this. And that neuron fires. And then, does whatever it does and forms pathways. Well, GABA lowers that. Now, it takes more energy to make that thing fire. And you can overcome this by just putting a lot of energy into the cells. So if you've ever been exhausted, woken up exhausted, didn't get enough sleep for whatever reason. Like, ‘I'm going to go to work. I’m gonna come home. I’m going straight to bed. I'm gonna sleep 12 hours a day.’ And then your friends talk you into going out or you get a cup of a drink. You stay up ‘til midnight, ‘I feel fine.’ And then you suffer again the next day, right? Because you just overcame that.

You can actually read about this because this still exists, believe it or not, they're still I think 35 or 45 pretty large communities around the globe that have never experienced electricity. And they just lived like hunters and gatherers. They go out. And the men go out and hunt. And the women pick, and nurture their kids, and weave. And just when you think of your caveman doing, they still live like that today. And we study these people. And we did actigraphy. So it's not true sleep, say. It's just movement to know when they're likely to be asleep. And what we find is, the sun goes down. Again, the blue light goes out of their eyes. It fires, the brain starts secreting melatonin that leads to a cascade of 365 billion other chemical changes in the brain, right? But that initiation has to happen. Once that initiation is going, one of the things it does is secrete GABA, increase GABA production in lots of regions of the brain that starts slowing the brain down.

The sun goes down. They don't have electricity, right? The best they have is a fire. So what else happens? Their body temperature goes down. So when the sun goes down and it is dark, we can't see well at night, we can't see very far. So there's way less stimulus, right? They don't have flashing lights. They don't have loud music. So there's not much to stimulate them. So they sit around a fire. Maybe if they're lucky, if not, they just stare around the dark, and they have some quiet, calm conversations, and then they drift off to sleep.

That's all sleep hygiene is. That's it. Those three things: decrease the blue light, decrease the stimulation to your brain, and drop your body temperature. You need a cool place to sleep. One of the things that you can do to speed these things up is to concentrate the right nutrients in your brain. If you are going to take melatonin and just take a very, very, very, very small amount. You just want to initiate. You don't want to put so much melatonin in your brain that your brain doesn't need to make melatonin because then you start running insensitivity to melatonin, and now when you take it away, you don't have, you're essentially melatonin deficient because you've downregulated the receptors, and your brain is not sensitive to melatonin anymore.

Lisa: Can I just stop in the first, one second. Dr John Lieurance is his name and he was on the Ben Greenfield podcast, and he's written a book about melatonin. And he argued that melatonin, interesting work, doesn't downregulate when you take melatonin, and doesn't cause that downregulation. All the other hormones do. If we take testosterone, we're going to downregulate our own testosterone, if we take right whatever. He said that they didn't. And he was advocating in his book for actually, super-physiological doses of melatonin. Certainly when you're doing things like jetlag, or whatever you're trying to reset, but also for a raft of other ailments to help with many diseases. Have you heard of his work or?

Dr Kirk: I’m familiar with him and his work.

Lisa: Yeah. What's your take on that? Because I was like, ‘I don’t know.’

Dr Kirk: So, I disagree, obviously.

Lisa: Yeah. That’s what I want to know.

Dr Kirk: But specifically, so what he's talking about, 90% of his work is about the antioxidant.

Lisa: Yes. Is it an antioxidant? Yep.

Dr Kirk: The studies that he's quoting are saying that melatonin doesn't downregulate. We don't know for sure. It's like, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. The only way we would know is if we could actually drop a catheter into somebody's brain and sample their fluid in their brain 24 hours a day and study this over months. And so we can't say for sure. We can do animal models. Again, it's hard to quantify because from the time the sun goes down, which is about three hours before you'll fall asleep, to the entire time you slept, until the sun comes up, you're looking at somewhere between 11 and 12 hours. That entire time your brain will only produce five to six micrograms of melatonin.

Lisa: Tiny amount.

Dr Kirk: So how do we study, right? It's really hard to study, and you think of it in a mouse model, how much smaller the quantities are we're looking at that point. And the concentration of melatonin in each region of the brain is not the same, it depends on some cells in the brain can actually be stimulated by melatonin. It's somewhere. It’s different. And same with GABA. GABA doesn't go to every region of the brain because it can stimulate regions of the brain. But what we do know, so first, I always go with, we don’t know anything. We have research that makes us believe certain things are likely to be true based on the best science we have right now. So we don't know anything. And I believe that to be true about everything in science. Just wait a week, it might change. But what we do know is that every other hormone does this.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Kirk: But if it doesn't do this, it's the only hormone in the body that doesn't. Pretty unlikely. But what we do know with 100% certainty is that it does downregulate melatonin receptors.

Lisa: Right.

Dr Kirk: It can take away melatonin receptors. If I normally have 10 melatonin receptors, and I go down to just having one, now even if I'm sprayed with melatonin, I only have one. And I have to have this supersaturation for this one receptor to do all this work. And if I go down to normal physiologic levels of melatonin and this one receptor, there's just getting an occasional melatonin coming by, I'm going to be, it's no different. It doesn't matter whether I'm not producing enough, or I don't have enough receptors, it's the same end result. You have to have melatonin binders stuffing pulled into the cell to have it function.

Lisa: So can I ask one question there like, so for elderly, who, from what I understand, in my basic research on melatonin, is that their melatonin production goes down with age, and, therefore, they could benefit from melatonin supplementation. Is that a thing or?

Dr Kirk: Yeah, I agree. And so what happens is that the pineal gland calcifies just like our arteries. And every vessel, everything in our body calcifies, right. That's sort of aging.

Lisa: One of the majors.

Dr Kirk: And so it calcifies, and you do almost certainly secrete less melatonin, right? And again, the only way we would know is to drop a catheter into somebody's brain. But I'm not saying that you shouldn't take melatonin at all. I'm just saying you shouldn't take super physiologic. So his example of when you're speaking about the melatonin work earlier, right? His example is, well, this is a great antioxidant. Now, if I do these super physiologic amounts, there's all these benefits to it. Well, if I give you 10 times the amount of testosterone that your body ordinarily has, you're gonna feel fantastic. If I give you something that secretes a bunch of epinephrine and norepinephrine, like cocaine. And you have this huge rush of norepinephrine; you feel fantastic. And you're super productive, and your brain’s really sharp. Does that make that a good idea? I don't think so. I don't deal with anything super physiologic.

Again, I'm the behaviourist, and 95% of all your health is going to come from re-approximating the way you revolt. This body takes hundreds of thousands of years to adapt to this planet. And now we're just like, ‘No, we're smarter. Like I’m a 35-year-old biohacker. I read a bunch of books. I know I can do it better than–” We know nothing about the body.

Lisa: Can we all mean for people–we also know that people tend to die. If we wanted to extend our healthspan and their lifespan, but healthspan mainly, can we, with hormone replacement therapy, there's a raging argument: should you be on hormone replacement therapy, should you not? If you’re wanting to optimise. Now, there's downsides. And you need to understand your genetics, and you need to understand all of those aspects.

There is benefits for us to taking testosterone or DHEA or all these things in the right physiological doses of, say, a 30-year-old, like, I'm 50 or 52, I want to be at the level that I was, say at 30–35. I understand my genetics, I know where my risk factors are. I can keep an eye on all of that sort of stuff. Can I all meet that so that I live and function longer? Because I think the core question here is how do we optimise? Yes, we've developed like cavemen but then they die at 70–80, as well. Can we extend that with the knowledge that we currently have?

Dr Kirk: Well, so I don't ever promise anybody that I can make them live longer. I say, ‘You might live longer from this.’ If you think about it, think about it this way: at first, we talk about what sleep does, right? And if we could catch up every night, we wouldn't age. So what are we doing when we're doing things like hormone-replacement therapy? We're doing metabolomics. And we're doing all sorts of supplementation around that, or we're doing artificial things like hyperbaric, and near-far IR sauna, and ice baths, and doing all these steps to stimulate the production of the thing.

Of course, now we have antibiotics, and we have all sorts of treatments to keep people from dying as young from certain diseases. So certainly, we should be able to either, probably add years to your life. But if not, definitely we can add life to your years, right? If you're going to die at 80 either way, one version of this, you could die hiking Mount Kilimanjaro, another one you're dying in a little chair in a nursing home. So I don't know.

The question is, even with the longevity work that people are doing, really smart guys like Sinclair and all these guys are doing all these things, and they're doing all these things with clearing senescent cells, we're doing all these things with peptides. And now I give my patients peptides for certain things. I don't know nearly as much about the longevity stuff as I’d like to. And we and we're reversing aging genetically, right? We're going in there and saying, ‘Actually, over the course of a year, with a lot of work, a lot of effort, a lot of tries, a lot of modalities, really focusing on your lifestyle and doing everything. Ideally, we can actually, probably, reverse your genetic age a little bit.’ Are we actually reversing age? I don't know, we made your telomeres longer. The increased the methylation on your genes, and those are markers for age, does that reverse it? We don't really know, right?

Lisa: We haven’t been around long enough to work it out.

Dr Kirk: Right. It's like with omega-3s. If your omega-3s are this, then we know that certain things go this way. Well, but if we supplement your omega-3s, is that the same as you having that nutritionally. Or vitamin B3? Is that the same? We don't know. We're thinking that it probably is. And we're thinking if we're reversing the markers we know for genetic aging that's making you genetically younger. But maybe there's some totally different information in there on aging that we don't know anything about yet. That's possible, too.

I think from what I know about you, you probably agree with me. I think epigenetics is more important than genetics, anyway. You have certain genetics and you change half a dozen things about your day, and your epigenetics are totally different. If you short yourself 2 hours of sleep, you change 735 different epigenetic markers from just 2 hours. All your pro-inflammatory ones are the ones turning on, and all of your anabolic ones are the ones turning off. And again–

Lisa: That's still the biggest leverage point, isn't it?

Dr Kirk: It’s still a crazy complex to think that you can decipher what 735 changes in epigenetics mean. We have some ideas of what certain things, how does all that work in synchronicity, but even though we're the smartest animal on this planet, we still have a very feeble mind.

Lisa: We’re still dumb.

Dr Kirk: When it comes to understanding the complexity of our bodies, we can't understand the complexity of the planet, much less our bodies. And life is just this amazingly complex thing. We don't have systems in our body. We divide the body up in systems as a way to learn it so that we can systematically learn and we can test about the learning, but the body doesn't work in systems.

Lisa: I have such an issue with it, too. It's nothing like the way that the medical model breaks us all down.

Dr Kirk: The reductionist model doesn't work for life. And if you think about it, most of biology is purely descriptive. All of it is, we've come up with better and better ways to test things and look at things, and then we can describe what's going on. We don't know how to manipulate it most of the time. If we do, it's really clumsy. And it's causing 500 other changes because we wanted to flip this one switch this way. Then what are the downstream effects? We don't know. We'll find out in like 30 years after 100,000 people go through this. It's really clumsy.

I don't know if can I make somebody live longer. I'd never make that claim. But can I make people look, feel, and perform better? Absolutely. I can do it all the time. And me, personally, like you're saying, I just approximate use. Their arguments, there are people out there saying, ‘Well, these hormones will cause this or that.’ I’m like, ‘Okay. If high estrogen levels cause breast cancer, why don’t young women get breast cancer? Older women, they're the ones who are getting breast cancer, why?’ That thing with men and prostate cancer, giving them testosterone is gonna cause prostate. No, it's not. If that were true, then a 20-year-old would have prostate cancer, and a 60-year-old wouldn’t, right? It's a lack of this. And I think breast cancer is a lot like prostate cancer. What we know with prostate cancer now is that if you give somebody testosterone, and they already have prostate cancer, they’re sensitive to androgen, then you can expose them.

Lisa: You can ignite it.

Dr Kirk: Or women have found for 5 or 10 more years, maybe. I think breast cancer is the same way. And it just makes sense. And so–

Lisa: And how you clearing out your liver and all that strain, all of those things that those changes that happen, but yeah, totally.

Dr Kirk: And also, every single mechanism that I just talked about that is reversing aging, or slowing aging, or whatever the phrase you want to use. Every single one of those things is improving mitochondrial density, improving mitochondrial function, and doing– There’s a thing that’s called neovascularisation and angiogenesis. So it's improving blood supply. It's improving lymphatic flow, and it's improving mitochondrial density and mitochondrial functioning. That's pretty much health, right? I'm sorry, what was your question on—

Lisa: The mitochondrial aspect of it. I truly believe that's the core of so many of these diseases. If we can get our mitochondria, and it’s just not easy than that. And if we can get those working properly, and we can– that's the downstroke, the most lowest level where we can and again, sleep and things become the leverage point.

Dr Kirk: Right. And if you think about what all of the health crazes are moving towards, all those things are doing that, right? So the ketogenic diet, intermittent fasting, both of these things are increasing mitochondrial density. Both are increasing mitochondrial function. They’re both really anti-inflammatory. Anti-inflammatory leads to higher blood supply, better immune function. Immune function is anabolic, right? So that’s what’s repairing and building things back up. The near-far IR sauna’s doing same thing: mitochondrial density, mitochondrial functioning, hyperbaric oxygenation, decreasing cytokines, inflammatory cytokines, increasing the oxygen saturation throughout all the cells, causing new blood vessels to form, carrying more. And it's all mitochondrial density.

What else are we doing? Cold ice baths. I suppose it is trying to increase, they're going to increase your blood flow to save you from freezing, right? And how you're going to do that? It has to grow new blood vessels, and how's it got to do that? It's got to get more energy. Well, how's it going to do that? It’s got to make more mitochondria. All of this stuff. And the other thing that does is it increases things like BDNF, so it’s helping to repair and restore our brains and then that's leading to better hormone functions because our brain is the hormone master; it’s the orchestra leaders, the maestro. Your pineal gland, and pituitary, that's where everything's coming from.

Lisa: Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our Patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years, and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody. And we want to keep it that way. But to do that, we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits Podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's p-a-t-r-o-n dot Lisa Tamati dot com. We have two patron levels to choose from, you can do it for as little as $7 a month, New Zealand or $15 a month if you really want to support us. So we are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us; everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power divider, and future episodes, webinars that we're going to be holding, all of my documentaries and much, much more. So check out all the details, patron.lisatamati.com. And thanks very much for joining us.

Can I ask you a little bit, because I know that you have done hyperbaric work in your naval days. And I've got a hyperbaric right behind me, there in the corner. And I'm very big on it. And it was a cornerstone of my mother's rehabilitation after a massive aneurysm and brain injury. What's your take on it in regards to brain injuries in regards to concussions, which is in epidemic levels in our world? And also for things like dementia and Alzheimer's? Without obviously, being your absolute area of expertise. But what is your take on hyperbaric for all of these things?

Dr Kirk: So I think hyperbarics is actually going to turn out to be the most effective tool in the toolbox. I think you have to use all the tools. And I have all the tools at my house. Right? I don't have hyperbarics. So I just actually came back from doing a couple of months of hyperbarics in Tampa, and I have a great recommendation for guests if you want to talk to somebody who really knows hyperbarics, and he's a longtime friend of mine. I was in the Navy with him, who's a Navy master diver, and he's just got his PhD in biomedical engineering, and he has a hyperbarics facility. He did the first research paper on the long haulers for COVID, reversing all the long hauling syndromes. He's done a paper on Lyme disease. He's doing a paper right now on dysarthria from strokes and others, and he and I were investigating brain injuries, TBI.

Lisa: Wow. I definitely want to meet this guy.

Dr Kirk: Yeah, so I was the guinea pig. And then another SEAL friend of mine. Because SEALs my age have the most problems, right? They usually are at this age. But I have my best friend from SEAL training. So he’s just my best friend overall. He was in the SEAL teams for 26 years, nearly 26,27,28 combat deployments. So he’s been blown up with a grenade, he's been blind in one eye, he’s been, in the head, 20 plus surgeries. And that's the norm. That's the norm of how guys come out when they're my age, and they stay the whole time. I don't obviously have nearly the trauma that he does. So I wanted to bring him in, too.

Much like I do with the SEALs I just said, ‘We're just going to test everything, and we're just gonna test everything we can think of.’ So I did pre- and post-EEGs, I did pre- and post-PET scans for consumption. I did–what’s it called–psycho learning batteries of tests, testing to problem solve. I did a bunch of hormone stuff. I did genetic aging before. I did all this stuff. Then I just went and did a standard protocol, which is essentially one hour at depth. So one hour bottom time at 280, at 100% oxygen, five days a week. Take Saturday and Sunday off. I did that for eight weeks.

Lisa: Yep. That’s 40-odd or 50-odd sessions, yep.

Dr Kirk: Yeah, so 40 sessions. And it’s a big commitment. It’s a big time commitment. It's expensive. But I just want to see if we can use it for the SEALs because I still do a lot of work with guys who are getting out of the SEAL teams or are out of the SEAL teams. And they break down when things are– really, really hard life. And they can’t put it in the end, they don't have their community, and they don’t have their compensatory techniques anymore. They're going to new jobs where they don't know their way around as much in there. And plus, they've been gone most of their career. Now, they're home with their wives and their kids. And it's a new thing. It's hard for them, it's super stressful. And so I do everything I can to help these guys out. And anytime there's a new modality, anybody tells me, not that hyperbarics is new, but the partial results with TBI is that we're 5, 10, 15 years old. That's a new postulate. And so we're doing our best to test that, and we're about to do it again. I'm going to go to–

Lisa: I so wanna hear the results of that, please. Because I think it's the most underrated thing that I've ever come across. And you know, and I've been studying it or a couple of years.

Dr Kirk: Absolutely.

Lisa: I know what it did to my mum. My uom went from being like a baby. No, hardly any brain function to being full driver's license, full life, full everything. She's walking and training at the gym every day. And that thing there in the corner was the catalyst for it. It gave me that stuff to do. And I've got a family member with brain injuries, I can't give him the repeated brain injuries from sport. And can't you see what this is? How powerful this is? But it's a big time commitment. Even when it's sitting in your sister's house. But it's really important that people do this and get access to this.

We just had a Sunday program, which is our current affairs, a big current affairs program on TBIs. It’s from rugby players over here, professional rugby players and how many TBIs they get in a career. And they're coming out, ending up with dementia and Alzheimer's and brain injuries and mood changes, tossed around down the toilet, and all these sorts of things. And not once did anybody say hyperbaric. And I'm just like, ‘Oh, for God's sake.’ But what do we have to do?

Dr Kirk: I don't know why we're so bad at that. And under all of the royal colonies. The Israelis and the Russians–

Lisa: The Israelis are onto it. The Russians are onto it. The Russians, the Germans are onto it

Dr Kirk: The Russians, I think of, I say they have 180-some odd approved uses. Israelis are like 116. We’re 14, and then we just added one a few months ago. And half of ours are really the same thing. It's just nuances of the same thing. It's just we don't get to use it very much. And when I was in the SEAL teams, it was super hard for me to get it for wound healing, although it's the most obvious use for it. And I would want to put guys in there after surgery. And it was like pulling teeth every single time. I had to fight them. I had to fight the machine to get guys in there. And it's a huge difference, obviously.

Lisa: Are you aware of the work of Dr Paul Harch? hbot.com is his website. He's done a hell of a lot in the hyperbaric space. Check him out. H-a-r-c-h, Dr Paul Harch, real expert in this area. And just on that point on about the machine, the medical machinery that we have, in our Western world, in New Zealand, it’s very similar to the States. What the hell are they doing? Why are we still in this preventive, in this disease-based system? Where we are only, like you were talking about, ranges before and these guys are still in the normal ranges, but they were having symptoms. Thyroid is another classic example of people that have not been picked up.

I've just been through a journey, which my listeners know, with my father who developed sepsis after a massive operation, and I won't go into the details. But I was trying to get intravenous vitamin C, and he was dying. And I couldn't. They had no other options where I've got this. I've got scientist friends, doctors who have given me the clinical evidence to proceed these to the ethics committees and all these things while I'm fighting for his life, and he's dying in front of my eyes. And I'm not allowed to give him intravenous vitamin C, which has been shown in a number of clinical studies to drop the mortality rate by 40%–50%, and I wasn't allowed to do it.

I'm just like, ‘What the heck is going wrong with our system?’ I wonder, right? But it took me 15 days. And by the way, my dad had multiple organ failure, and I lost the battle for him. The system is just– I'm getting, I'll get off my soapbox in a minute. But why is somebody who's been through the medical, the standard medical, and then gone out and done your own? Where are they going wrong? And is there a paradigm shift coming? Can you see a change coming?

Dr Kirk: Now, I really wish I could say yes to that. But I’ve become so disheartened after COVID. I don't know the politics there. But the politics here, it’s just mind-boggling to me. I’m sitting here going– First of all, hydroxychloroquine has been around for like 100 years. It's been around forever. It's over the counter in 80% of the countries in the world. It's a very safe drug. There's almost no chance it's going to cause anybody harm. So whether anybody believes that it was helpful at the beginning or not, you had teams of doctors who are actually doing the work, the clinician saying, ‘This works.’ And then you have these researchers and politicians saying, ‘There's not enough evidence of that. Use this, and don't use that.’

Lisa: And the vaccine, it’s been on trial.

Dr Kirk: There is a doctor out here, she's a doctor and a lawyer. She got thrown in jail for giving somebody hydroxychloroquine.

Lisa: You kidding me?

Dr Kirk: For prescribing somebody hydroxychloroquine, she spent four days in jail. They kicked in her house. They kicked in the door of her house with a SWAT team, with body armor and other weapons and rushed her and arrested this little 100-pound woman and put her in jail, didn't let her call a lawyer or anything.

Lisa: That’s just evil. That’s unbelievable.

Dr Kirk: There's never been anything in the news. And the news cycle that carry the news cycle to the extent of COVID period, but any really big event that I had any expertise in. So COVID was the first time that the big nation focus was on something I knew about, right? I'm not a virologist, but I know how the immune system works, right? I know what viruses are. I know their life cycle. I know how this works. I know how the medicines work. I have some expertise. And I can read what's out there. And I can learn it really quickly. And I'm just amazed at how dishonest and inaccurate the media was, and it’s probably that way for everything. I don't have enough expertise to realise that when everything else is going on. And so I've just become really disheartened.

That woman who got arrested, she was in, she was running something called the Frontline Doctors, and her and a bunch of other doctors went to the Capitol. And they held this press conference, and they told them, ‘Here's the evidence. Here's the evidence of the medicine. Here's the safety of the medicine. Here's what we've been finding clinically. We want to urge all doctors to do this.’ And the FDA cracked down and told people they couldn't do it. Why isn't a medical doctor could not call a pharmacist and tell them to prescribe hydroxychloroquine to my patients? A pharmacist could tell me, ‘No.’ A pharmacist said, ‘No, that's against the law.’

Lisa: To a doctor. And ivermectin is the other one. Have you—

Dr Kirk: Ivermectin is exactly in the same way.

Lisa: What the hell?

Dr Kirk: And then these doctors have had a website where they've been making videos, they've been posting, with their videos, all of their references, all the clinical— they’re only using peer-reviewed studies. They're going through mechanism, historical stuff. They're going through new stuff. And they're posting on there. Amazon just shut their website down.

Lisa: Have you seen Dr Robert Malone? He’s the founder of mRNA. And he was on the DarkHorse Podcast with Bret Weinstein. It was a really long interview and really in-depth. But the thing was, this was censored. I watched them take it down. And I watch other people keep putting it back up. And then now they've gone over to a platform called, obviously, which they can't be censored because it's on the crypto saying which is like— But why, when this aside, I know why. But the science is there. The clinical evidence is there. This is a safe— Ivermectin has been on the market for 40 something years? 30 to 40 years. I don't know exactly. But it's off-patent. Nobody can make money out of it. And then if they have a therapeutic, they can't do the vaccine under the emergency law.

Dr Kirk: I've heard that partial, and I think that's very realistic. Because— but the other side of it is that if there's one thing that's been proven in the last year and a half, the two years in America, is that the powers that be can do whatever the hell they want to do. So, they could have approved emergency use, even if they were 10 treatments because they just wanted to. They just do whatever they want to do right now. ‘You know, what? that's against the law.’ ‘No. Tough. We're gonna do it anyway.”

Lisa: We want to make some billions out of something, so we’re going to put it anyway.

Dr Kirk: I don't know. I'm very disturbed by it. But I would say 10 years ago, I was really excited that there was going to be a paradigm shift. I've been waiting for it to happen. I don't know why it doesn't happen. You know, like I said, I started studying all this stuff around 2009. And going well. And this makes a lot more sense. And, and now— But I'm not saying that Western medicine is all bad. Because if you're talking about somebody who's on death's door, somebody just got run over by a bus, or somebody who's severely sick, yes, Western medicine is great. But to keep people from getting severely sick, and to keep people aging well, and to perform well, that's a total different ballgame. And that's not what the medical professionals are trained to do. And the ones that are trained to do that get marginalised. They aren’t the real doctors. They’re not the natural. Pass. And a real doctor over here. It's like, ‘You're kind of like a doctor, but we're gonna put you in this little box.’

Lisa: A second-class citizen.

Dr Kirk: Yeah, you’re a second-class citizen.

Lisa: You’re not the real thing.

Dr Kirk: If there's one thing that I've proven to myself over the decade I've been doing this now is that most of my values as being a coach. I'm a doctor, but I pretty much coach people in lifestyle change. 90% of what I do is I get people to change their behaviours.

Lisa: And no one can make money out of that.

Dr Kirk: And then I give hormones. And then I give peptides. And then I give nucleo supplementations. And then we do little gadgets that you want to monitor everything about yourself and learn. You monitor your heart rate variability, your sleep, and all that. And you want to get every piece of data and continuous blood glucose. Do whatever you want. All that stuff. Let's get you sleeping well. Let's get you eating whole foods and no junk. Let's get you exercising to the level that is appropriate for your fitness level currently. Let's get your stress hormones down, and get your mood and thinking all in line with some mindfulness training, or whatever you do with that. And that takes, honestly, it takes nine months.

Lisa: Yep, exactly. That takes time. It takes massive effort. And it takes behavioural change, which people just don't want to do behavioural change because it's much easier to take a pill. It's much easier to take something simple and that's just the way humans are; we want it easy. Give me a pill of those.

Dr Kirk: And this great salesman telling them that they just eat this superfood, or like whatever this, ‘Oh, weird bacteria, we found this on K under the Amazon, like this is the key.’ Not really. Nobody's ever been able to use it before. And that's the key. Now I see. That makes sense. And people want that magic bullet. And it's hard. It's hard for some people. Unfortunately, there's never really been that hard for me. I'm just not somebody who's had a lot of hunger cravings. I don't really crave bad food, it's easy for me to eat a good diet.

Lisa: And there's a lot of genetic factors and all of these things. When you look at our evolution, it makes sense that we go after fat, and sugar, and salt because that's what we don’t have enough of and so–

Dr Kirk: –That’s what protects you from famine.

Lisa: But we need to understand how the big food industry then is tapping into those addictive mechanisms in our brain to make us want more. You can't eat one chip. Anybody knows, who’s eaten a pack, opened a pack of chips, you can't eat one chip; you're gonna eat the whole packet.

Dr Kirk: You don’t call them crisps? I thought you called them crisps over there.

Lisa: No, we call them chips.

Dr Kirk: So I actually have this postulate of where doughnuts and coffee came from in here. So what I was saying earlier, if I don't get enough sleep tonight, so I don't recover, I don't get the right deep sleep, my anabolic hormones don't change around, my insulin sensitivity shifts, my appetite regulation, ghrelin and leptin regulators, my fat metabolism regulators, all of that off because I didn't sleep well, right? So I wake up the next morning, and I have a high-stress hormone because I didn't get enough sleep, and I'm using stress hormones to get through the day.

Another thing that happens when you're asleep is you flush the toxins out of your brain. Yeah, the lymphatic glow, right? And I use that word sparingly. And part of the dual partitioning and regeneration tool source. One of the things that we're doing is we're replenishing ATP, right? So ATP is triphosphate adenosine with three phosphates on it, and it goes down to ADP and AMP and then just an adenosine binds to areas of your brain and tells your brain where to start it. We burn all this out. We need to sleep.

That's what we call sleep pressure. That’s the drive that just makes you want to crash. And you know this well from being an athlete and pushing yourself to the extent that you can lay down on cactus and fall asleep. You’re just so damn tired, and you got to sleep. And then it only takes a few hours to flush that adenosine out, right? And then if you have enough stress hormones, epinephrine, norepinephrine, all that, you can get up and go again.

Our insulin sensitivity goes down, especially in our fat cells, and then our leptin sensitivity goes down. And so we're convinced we need to actually store more fat. And then we still have adenosine. And the way caffeine works, caffeine blocks the adenosine, right? So your body now believes that it's starving. The only reason that—so we're the only animal on the planet, that sleep deprives ourselves on purpose. Every other mammal, the only time they will ever sleep deprive themselves is if they're being pursued, if they're being preyed upon. Or if they're starving to death. If they're starving to death, they need to go further for food. And it shuts off the prefrontal cortex and makes you take more risks. You'll eat novel foods; you might try some things that might keep you alive that you wouldn't have otherwise try.

You wake up, essentially, with your body convinced that you're starving. One, you deprive yourself of sleep. So every day you wake up without enough sleep, there's some trigger in your brain that’s saying, ‘Are we starving? Are we being preyed upon? What's the threat? There's a threat on us, right?’ And now you have all this appetite regulation and fat metabolism, all these regulators are off, and your body's convinced that you're starving. And what do you need when you're starving? You need glucose, right now. And then you need much of that. Right? And what is a doughnut? It’s tri glucose, right? So it’s like glucose for body fat.

Lisa: Sugar and fat.

Dr Kirk: And then you drink coffee to displace the adenosine.

Lisa: It makes sense. Why would it?

Dr Kirk: I think that’s where coffee neurals come from. It’s very theory 101. Do with it what you want. Never been published.

Lisa: But that is brilliant work. It's a brilliant deduction. And it's so true. And then we take more coffee to keep ourselves going. And then we cause these adenosines to come and then we can’t go to sleep.

Dr Kirk: This is one of the most beautiful things. So I was actually doing a sleep lecture with three other sleep experts of all different fields. There's some psychiatrists there and some sleep practitioners that do CPAP sleep disease, specialists. And we were all going to do a series of lectures during the day. And we're waiting around for our car to come get us. And we’re sitting in the lobby, and the lobby had a Starbucks. And they just happened to have propped up in one of those little poles with a new slider menu, and it was just sitting right next to the bench we’re sitting on. And it had all the nutritional information of their drinks.

I'm sitting there looking at it. I go, ‘Oh, my gosh, they have a point. I'm getting a— Look at this.’ And they're looking at it. I'm like, ‘Oh my gosh, that explains a lot.’ So when you look at caffeine intake or the effects, the beneficial effects of caffeine intake, or what we call a hormetic curve, right? So more is better until more is worse, right? And when it starts getting worse is about 200 milligrams.

Lisa: Which is what, two cups of coffee?

Dr Kirk: It's not even two full cups of drip coffee, right? So after that, though, you actually get the exact opposite effect. So caffeine actually makes you start feeling more tired.

Lisa: Wow. And wired.

Dr Kirk: And Starbucks has these 800-calorie coffees, a 100% of the calories are from sugar, right? Because they have syrups and whatever in them and cream, and then with 600 milligrams of caffeine. So what happens when you drink 600 milligrams of caffeine, you say, ‘I'm feeling better. I'm drinking this over time.’ And then I finish my coffee. A couple of hours later, I feel awful. And what do I think I need?

Lisa: Coffee.

Dr Kirk: Coffee. Go back and get another, more.

Lisa: And people go and get it. And then they don't understand how long it takes for the caffeine to be processed out of the body. And then 12 hours later, they're not going to sleep, and they're thinking they haven't equated it to the third cup of coffee that they had today.

Dr Kirk: Yeah, they have no sleep pressure like we're talking about, blocking your adenosine receptors. Plus, it’s led to some stimulation of stress hormones and their stress hormones to hide their sleep.

Lisa: And on that point, you know, I was talking about my dad before and I was in the hospital with him for 16 days. We were fighting for his life. And that time, I had maximum two hours sleep a day because I was just there at the hospital, advocating, protecting him, wasn't leaving his side. If I could stand up, I was there. At 16 days, I was diabetic. My blood sugar levels were through the roof. And all of my— so and that led to a whole lot of downstream effects that I'm still unpacking now. And it's now a year later. This is how quickly it can happen. I'm in a time like that, you want to push.

It’s the same when you're doing ultra-marathons. I ran ultra-marathons, 25 years doing crazy long distance stuff. When I ran through New Zealand, and I was running 500 kilometres a week, I got fatter. I figured that one out. Because there was over, I don't know how many calories I was burning; it was an excess of 10,000 calories a day or more. And I wasn't getting anywhere near that calories in and yet my body got fed, and my composition changed, my hormones were down, my sugar, all of these things. We think that the more we train, because this is another argument that I have a lot of my athletes that I train, is that more is always better when it comes to exercise. And that's not true.

Dr Kirk: Sometimes, more is just more. And often, if you're sleep-deprived, more is worse for sure. You don't really need to do any exercises. You just stay active until you've recovered, and then you can exercise again. But I know exactly what you're talking about. When we were talking before we started recording, I tampered with endurance marathons and things like this. It just wasn't well-suited for it. But definitely the fattest I've ever been in my life. I just wasn't suited for it. And it was too much stress. It was causing my body to put on everything.

Lisa: And it was causing your body to put on fat.

Dr Kirk: So I was just broken down. I was losing my hair. And the first time in my life that I ever had a belly. I've had plenty of times where I have like a six-pack. Where did this come from? Never had this before. And I was still pretty young, 35 at the time.

And I know for a fact that if you, there's research, it's not all tissues, but some of your tissues, the insulin sensitivity is decreased by 30% just by losing two hours of sleep. One night with two hours of sleep. So you go from sleeping eight hours of sleep to six. If you're pre-diabetic, you're waking up diabetic. If you're normal, you're waking up pre-diabetic. And then if you do that for several nights in a row, you might actually be driving yourself into diabetes within a week or two, and you don't really know.

There's not a lot of people who tracked themselves that much for us to know that certainly. But again, it's super complex because there's all sorts of hormonal regulations, and genetics, and vascular flow, and activities, and diet. But there's a lot of things going into that. But as a general rule, you can say if you lose two hours of sleep, testosterone is 30% lower, growth hormone is 30% lower, inflammation is 30% higher, leptin sensitivity is down 30%, insulin sensitivity is down 30%. This is in one night, you've only lost 25% of your sleep. And you're losing 25% to 30% of the benefit of sleep. No big surprise there. Right?

Lisa: But is a six and a half hours a day, the average scenario? And I can probably get six and a half. I don't know what the steps are. But six and a half to seven hours a day. How many people–

Dr Kirk: Americans just dropped under six the last year. But when I started this in 2009, it was 6.5, 6.45 I think.

Lisa: And we think that's enough. It's not close enough.

Dr Kirk: No. It's like saying, ‘Well, I need only need 2800 calories a day. So 35 is close enough. I'll stay lean, right?’ No. It doesn't make any sense. So it's best to get as much as you can possibly get. And if six and a half is all you can get, and I understand that some people's life in that way. This isn't to bash the individual. That's a cultural problem. It's not an individual problem.

In some cases it is, but in most cases, it's a cultural problem. They've grown up believing that sleep is for the weak, and lazy people sleep more, and really productive people get up early, get both ends, and get all the work done. And they're the high achievers, and that's who you want to be, and they're going to make the money. They're the sexy ones. They're going to marry the good spouse, and they're going to have the beautiful kids, and because they're getting after it, and you're lazy, just sleeping eight hours a day. People buy into that, especially.

I chose probably the worst two professions in the world. ‘That’s a luxury man. That's for weak people. And you get all the sleep you need when you're dead.’ Right? Now it’s a thing in medical school saying things, you're in the hospital like, ‘Sleep. Yeah, you're not getting here to sleep. There's people's lives in the line here, go make some bad decisions.’

It's a crazy, crazy world. And I tell you, people pay a lot of money to work with me. And I'm not saying that to be braggadocious. I'm saying for the point being, it's hard to get to work with me, right? There's a waiting list. I test. I seriously screen people because I don't want to work with somebody who's gonna be a pain in my ass. And I'm not working with anybody who's not super motivated. And you have to pay a lot of money because I don't work with very many people. I spend a lot of time with each person. Even though I'm known for sleep, the hardest thing for me to coach people to do is to sleep. And I could tell them, ‘We'll do anything.’ They're willing to do anything. And when I say, ‘Sleep eight hours a night,’ that's like, ‘Whoa, whoa, hold up.’ I'm like, ‘I want you to do yoga two hours a day. Exercise two hours a day. Eat nothing but kale.’ They go like, ‘Okay.’ ‘I want you to sleep eight hours a day.’ Like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can’t do that.’

Lisa: And you’re known for the sleep stuff.

Dr Kirk: That's the most important part. But it's hard. There's a lot of social conditioning around that. Most people know they don't eat well. Most people know they don't exercise enough. Most people know that they're too stressed. It's hard to convince people they aren’t sleeping well.

Lisa: And what about kids? Kids are going to school early. What sort of damage are we doing to our kids by making them— and adolescents are even worse because you never listen to your body clock changes. Can you just speak briefly to that? And then we will wrap up because I am taking up a lot of your time.

Dr Kirk: I actually did a five-hour lecture, eight hours a day for five days in a row in Germany. I was lecturing the student, the faculty, the counsellors, the coaches, and the teachers of the school systems for the American kids that were in, overseas, military kids that are, you know. And so I was lecturing all of this. And that's when I really dove into the research. I didn't know a lot of this before, and this was probably six or seven years ago.

What we're doing to our kids is tragic. It's way worse than what we're doing to ourselves as adults. It’s way worse. The really concerning thing is that, obviously a kid's brain isn't fully developed, right? That's primarily what those 18 years are about. It's not nearly as much about the physical as it is about the mental. And one of the last things to form is the prefrontal cortex. And that's the part right from my temples forward over my eyes like that little way.

That is the part that makes us the smartest animal on the planet. That is called, what Robert Sapolsky calls the simulator. It allows us to simulate things. We don't actually have to do them to figure out if they're a good idea, right? I don't need to jump off my roof to know if it's a good idea or not. I've never jumped off the roof of my house before. And I can guarantee you it's a bad idea. It's like 30 feet to the ground. I'm gonna get hurt. There's no way I'm going to do it. I don't have to do it to know that's a bad idea. I don't have to flip my boss off to know that I'm going to get fired if I flip my boss off, right? All of these behavioural gates, that’s all prefrontal cortex. Also all of our willpower is prefrontal cortex. So your ability to have a plan and stick on your plan relies on you going, ‘I want the future. I want what my plan will get me in the future more than I want the immediate gratification right now.’ That's all willpower, that's 100% prefrontal cortex.

As soon as your prefrontal cortex goes away, you start negotiating that other way. ‘It's not that big of a deal. It's only one piece of cake, and I can still lose that 15 pounds for my wedding.’ Whatever people's goals are, right? And our problem-solving ability, our verbal fluency, our ability to recognise other people's emotions when we're talking to them, our ability to actually communicate and listen and understand what they're saying, our ability to regulate our own emotions and our own speech and communicate effectively, all of that is prefrontal cortex. This is the social part of our brain. Well, guess when that part's forming? Adolescence. And this happens in adolescence. What else happens in adolescence? There's a phase shift in the circadian rhythm, and the kids need to stay up later and wake up later. That's just the way their circadian rhythm is shifted.

Lisa: They’re not being lazy. They just...

Dr Kirk: And instead, we're waking them up earlier as they get older. And these kids are having to get to school at 7:15 in the morning, which means they're getting up at 6:15. They’re probably not falling asleep until 1 a.m. And it's worse because they don't just need eight hours of sleep. They need about 10 hours of sleep. So they're getting half as much sleep as they need. And then we're shoving them off to school. And we're saying, ‘Why are you misbehaving in school? Why aren't you paying attention?’ Will it be the same thing?

Lisa: You are going to get ADHD.

Dr Kirk: Yeah, you are going to have ADHD. It would be the same as if you and I had to get up at 2:30 in the morning and go be at work at 3:30 in the morning. And we're expected to learn. We’re expected to be able to communicate effectively, and behave well, and pay attention, and be energetic, but we couldn't do it. No, kids can’t do it either. And we're interfering with the development of their brain.

The prefrontal cortex isn't fully formed until you're at the earliest, maybe 20. For women, women's brains formed a little faster. But it’s up to 25 years old. And a lot of men are right at that mark, 23 to 25. And about a quarter of the women are still 23 to 25. So the most formidable years are high school, and college, and early employment. And what do people do on early employment? They go hang out with their friends. They go to the bar. They drink. They have fun. They watch movies. They go to bed. They get up early. They go to work. They do the same thing every day. So the most sleep-deprived years are the most horrible years of the brain.

Lisa: And then we wonder why depression, and suicides, and accidents, and all of these things happen to our youth? And disproportionately is that part of it, at least because of–

Dr Kirk: There's this fascinating new field in medicine called chronobiology. And what they've discovered is that probably, we don't know for sure, but it's probably every psychiatric disease, and probably every psychological, severe flare-up or whatever you want to call that. So it's a cycle that's always preceded by sleep deprivation. Everybody who's depressed didn't sleep well before they became depressed. And now that depression’s, about half of them, it's making them sleep a lot more. But half of them is preventing them from being able to sleep. So now they feel sleepy all day. Any time anybody has a schizophrenic break, there's a period right there. People with bipolar, before they go into their frenetic phase, they have a period of sleep deprivation. And then after their manic phase, they go into their depressive phase. And that can actually lead again, half of them are going to sleep less and half of them are going to sleep more. But there's always sleep regulation around it.

They're the first book I read on chronobiology at some Ivy League hospitals, I think it was Harvard, or one those Harvard, Yale, Cornell, something like that. And in their attached hospital, they took their psychiatric inpatients, and all they did is get them out in the morning and get them to walk around the yard and do this. And it was amazing. I think it was at least 50%, it might have been 75% of their patients completely came off their medications. These are people who are inpatient. They've been on hardcore anti-psychotic medication for years and maybe decades. And they get them, not just decreased, 100% off of medications by getting their circadian rhythm and chronobiology as well.

It's deeper than I know. I haven't studied it really deep. We have the ultradian rhythms as well as the circadian rhythms. And so, how all that aligns, I can't say what the neurophysiology going on to break people out of that. But again, does it really matter? It’s lifestyle.

Lisa: It’s easy if you want to try it.

Dr Kirk: It's the same damn thing. Actually, if they lived as hunter-gatherers today, they would get up when the sun came on. And they’d have to go out and do things, right? And they'd be in the sunlight, and then it would get dark, and they would get cold, and they would fall asleep. So again, lifestyle handles 95% of this.

Lisa: Yep. And we just, our ancient DNA. We just cannot escape our ancient DNA. And when we try to when we put people on drugs, and we do all these interventions, why don't we try this stuff first? Why don't we try this basic stuff? When you look at hospitals with 24-hour lights and their beeping, and they're waking people up all through the night and all of these things in our sickest populations, just mind-blowing to me.

Dr Kirk: This is the whole philosophy of how pharmaceuticals come about that's wrong. So take sleep jokes for instance. We talked earlier about Stilnox, right? So what that does, it acts like GABA. Okay, so I told you that GABA is slowing down the brain. So when I get stressed out, when I started living in artificial light, and air conditioning and heating, and I've taken myself completely off the planet. I make it hot when it's cold, cold when it's hot, dark when it’s light, light when it's dark. I do whatever the hell they want to do. Eat stuff that's not even related to food. Like, ‘I can do whatever I want. I can totally take myself off of this planet.’ Like mankind's got it all figured out. Then, of course, I now have sleep problems. Well, and then maybe I'm overstimulating myself. I'm watching movies, or playing video games, or going out to a nightclub or whatever it is, I'm over stimulating my brain. And I can't get to sleep at night, or I'm in bed and I'm going through a divorce or bankruptcy or whatever. My brain is just racing, and I can't slow down my brain.

GABA’s job is to slow down my brain. Well, my GABA is not doing it. So what does the pharmaceutical industry do, right? So they have a receptor that binds GABA, I have GABA floating around my blood, grabs it, pulls it in the cell, and it does what GABA does in that cell. So we'll say that's a one. One GABA does an action of 1, on a scale from 1 to 10, 1. So now they come out with benzodiazepines, also act like GABA analogs. And what did they do? They bind the GABA. They bind that GABA receptor, it gets pulled in. Instead of doing 1 out of 10, it does 100 out of 10.

Lisa: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Dr Kirk: And then they came out with the Z-drugs and like, ‘Hey, we got this even better.’ Now this Z-drug binds in here, this still not binds in there, pulls it in there, on a scale of 1to 10, it does 1000. Now, I have this super physiologic effect because in the pharmaceutical world, well, all we got to do is flip this switch. And if we flip this switch harder, people are going to sleep faster, and we're going to win, and we're going to sell our medication. That’s the way they think about it.

Instead of going, ‘Well, what if we relieve all the stress hormones that are keeping the GABA from working? Then we just use this GABA? And the one does its job?’ Because we were talking about the downregulated receptor, right? Well, if the Z-drug is 1000 times more powerful than GABA, how many receptors are you gonna have at the end of six months of using that? Over 100,000, right? It's pretty simple math.

Lisa: Can you have half of it? Can you up-regulate those receptors again? When you bug it for a long time.

Dr Kirk: It takes a while. So what I did with the SEALs, now obviously, I couldn't just take away their sleep medicine and say, ‘Suck it up, buttercup.’ Right? I had to give them something. And so we came up with this concoction of these things to give them various reasons. And all the guys helped me figure out what works the best, but it kept them on their sleep drug. So what I did is I had the pharmacy make their Stilnox into a serum. So 10 drops was a full dose. So they did 10 drops for a week. And then they do nine drops for a week. And then eight drops a week, all the while undertaking the sleep supplement as well. And they're getting good sleep every night. They’ve cut down alcohol. And they've done their sleep hygiene. And they're doing everything to optimise their sleep. And over the course of about six to eight weeks, they're completely off of it. And then all the receptor density’s obviously back, and then they can just sleep fine and after that.

Lisa: Does it work for everything? Getting someone off antidepressants. And you were trying to cut like tablets down this, but this much is really hard because you don't, you can’t—

Dr Kirk: It is really hard. And it's really time-consuming. And sometimes you have to bounce back because the side effects become too much. And it's really hard to titrate off, especially antidepressants. Because especially, most antidepressants now aren't just working on one system. So they aren't working on say, like, just serotonin. They're doing a lot of things. We're working on multiple neurotransmitters. So you're down-regulating receptors for lots of things. And the ratio of neurotransmitters matters just as much as the presence of them. And not everybody's the same and so not everybody's receptors are coming back at the same speed. And not everybody's just sensitive to the same drugs. So it's hard to know how to get off of things.

I've actually had two patients over my career who just failed to come off of antidepressants. They just couldn't. We tried for the better part of a year. And it was too traumatic for them. They would have such bad side effects from getting off the medications, and they're like, ‘I'm just gonna stay on it.’ And I did my best to coach ‘em out of it. But at the end of the day, I’m there as an advocate and a coach. So I don't demand anything of my clients other than, basically, I'm dogmatic about but everything else is, we're going to work with what you want to do. And we're going to build resilience and performance in whatever areas you want to. And you're going to eat, like, if you want to be a vegetarian, be a vegetarian. You may want to be a carnivore, you be a carnivore.

I don't care what you want to do, we're just going to figure out how to get the right ratios for you of everything and get the best performance out of you. And maybe if your genetics are such that you would do better without meat, but you really love meat, you're like, you're willing to take a little bit of less performance, and I'd rather have meat than be 5% better, right? It’s up to you. I’m just really here as a guide.

Lisa: But you have developed a sleep remedy, which I've heard you say on another podcast is not a miracle. It doesn't contain some of the things that won’t actually help us without damaging us. Can you just talk a little bit about that?

Dr Kirk: It's not a physiologic trick, right. It's not something like there’s these drugs. There's not–

Lisa: It’s not magic–

Dr Kirk: It's not overdosing you on melatonin so that we're just washing out all of your weight, promoting neurotransmitters, and you’re just falling asleep anyway. So, we're talking about the hunter-gatherers, the caveman, where ancestors lived. I said, it takes about three to three and a half hours after the sun goes down before people feel like falling asleep. Well, who in America spends three hours or New Zealand spends three hours getting ready for bed? One in one in a million maybe? Right? So all I tried to do with my product is say, what would ordinarily concentrate over those three hours? What would happen? Well, as we said, the primary point would be we have [inaudible]. It's not just like a fire once and it goes. It's like this, this is flowing around the blank brain and continually made changes overnight.

Then the other thing is GABA. As I said, that slows the brain down. And that's the other part. The body temperature, not something I supplement with, do anything with. But the stress hormones, we need those to come down. Those should be coming down due to lifestyle, but maybe they're a little high. So phosphatidylserine is the only not straightforward thing that from your ultra-marathons and so forth, I'm sure you know, that decreases cortisol levels by taking phosphatidylserine. And so if you look at the pathway for producing melatonin, it’s amino acid tryptophan that becomes 5-hydroxy-tryptophan. Then with the help of magnesium and vitamin B3, that becomes serotonin. Serotonin becomes melatonin.

Lisa: Yep. And then you got your pathway without–

Dr Kirk: That's all that’s in my supplement. There's no serotonin. Now, there's tryptophan-5-hydroxy to present magnesium, vitamin B3, and a little bit of melatonin. There's some GABA in there. And then there's some phosphatidylserine, certainly, to bring your cortisol down. It's just ratios that I worked out with the SEALs over. They were great patients to have because they're super motivated, and really diligent and taking notes, they come and report to me every day. And we just figured out the ratios like, ‘Okay, seems like we need a little more of this and a little less of that.’ I had no intention to making a product out of it. I was just helping them get off in their sleep drugs, and then they just harangued me into making a product out of it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Kirk: Because this is a pain in their ass. They're having to go to three different stores. This was before Amazon, you can just order everything, they're having to go to three different health food stores. And this came in a 30-day supply. And that came in 90 days. And that was natural. And that was a powder. And this is a liquid. They couldn't travel with it. And so they’re like, ‘Just make it something simple.’ That's why I made the stick pouches. One, because I want to make a tea because I want to create some sort of bedtime routine and ritual to help you perform something like that, and not just sit in bed and pop some pills. So that's why I made it. That's one of the reasons. And then the other thing is there's little stick pouches. These things last forever like it–

Lisa: You can take it–

Dr Kirk: And they can just you need five days of sleep, you just throw five of those in your pocket and you're done. Right? You don't need to pack a bunch of different pills and all that. So it really just made it out for those guys. And then it surprisingly turned into a little side business that I never really intended. But yeah.

Lisa: This is fantastic though because— and we'll put the links in the show notes, people do to get this and I— Because I have all those things and I have to take all the pills currently. And I don't know the ratios, whether I'm getting the ratios right and I'm doing it right. And I need extra support because I sort of love it full-bore like you probably do. So we can do with some extra help. So we will put the links in the show notes to the Sleep Remedy.

There's nothing physiological, over-physiological doses, there’s nothing artificial in there that's going to cause you trouble. And that's the main thing when people, because they will just grab Ambien, or Valium, or those types of things. Because they’re desperate and I get that. But we can help ourselves with all the sleep routine things that we've mentioned that. A dark, cold, having a hot shower or cold shower, something changing the temperature, slowing your brain down, chamomile tea, all these things that we can do that are simple behavioural things. But adding that into the mix, I think, is a really key thing.

Dr Parsley, I've taken up so much of your bloody time. But I could honestly, we'd love to have you back at some stage because there was just more that I wanted to–

Dr Kirk: Yeah. There’s a lot we didn’t really get to talk about. I’m always happy to do it. I don't know how long it took to schedule this one. But I think I can get them done in a couple of weeks, usually. I'm only doing maybe two a week right now. It used to be five a week, somebody always wanted me to do it, but I don't get as many requests now. I'm not as popular. So I can do about two a week so...

Lisa: I think, and I've worked with– I've done this podcast for nearly six years. I've talked to experts in so many, many, many fields. And your wide-ranging experience, both in the SEALs and as a doctor is pretty extensive. So I think we're getting a lot more. And I think I just really enjoyed this conversation because it helps clarify a lot of things for me. And it's really put, I think the number one thing that I've also come to the conclusion of, in a roundabout way, that sleep is our biggest leverage point, not exercise, not food, not anything else but sleep. And it is not an easy one for us to just click and do. But we can help ourselves. So I think that the work you're doing is absolutely marvellous. And I would love to get your friend on who's in the hyperbaric because this is definitely one of my things that I'm good on promoting as well, big on it.

Any final things that you would like to share with the audience to just– any last bits of wisdom from Dr Parsley?

Dr Kirk: With you, specifically, with sleep since that’s what we talked the most about. And that's what people mostly want to hear me talk about. But, specifically, with sleep. But again, I just like to reiterate that it is a really simple process. And the thing that gets in the way the most is all of these fears and concerns about doing everything perfectly when you're designed to do it. All you need to do is convince yourself it's really important. And then just start with a bedtime ritual, right? The sleep hygiene stuff, you can look up. But again, all you're doing with it, to decreasing the blue light in your eyes. You can get glasses. You can do it by changing your light bulbs. You can do that by getting rid of the light, bring candles. You can put computers, programs that get rid of blue light. There's all sorts of things you can do. Get rid of the blue light. Decrease the stimulation. Lower your body temperature. That’s sleep hygiene, there's a million ways to do that.

Then of course, part of lowering stress is just slowing down your thinking. You can't work on your computer until 9:59 and get in bed in 10 and think you're gonna be asleep. It doesn't work that way. You have to slow everything down just like you do with a little kid. The other metaphor is like, if you've ever been a kid, you'll remember this 45-minute protracted period of getting a kid ready for sleep. We still need that as adults; we just don't think we need that. And it doesn't need to be as elaborate but it's the same thing. What were you doing with a kid?

Lisa: Put them in the bathtub.

Dr Kirk: Right? You're slowing him down. You don't let your kid bang trucks together and then throw him in a bed, turn off the light and walk out and think it's gonna work, right? Not gonna work. So stop roughhousing, slow down the activity, maybe watch a television show, or do a puzzle, or whatever it is. And then after you do that, you put them in the bath. Why are you putting them in the bath? You’re relaxing them, and you're lowering their body temperature, right? You don't give them a 98° bath. You might give them an 85° bath, right? Or I don't know Celsius. Now, so you're not giving a body temperature that is something below, so you're lowering the body temperature.

Then what do you do? You get them out of the bath, and you put them in really comfy jammies and put powder all over them. Decreases sensation, right? Now they're not feeling labels, not feeling zippers, not feeling anything touching them. So now they're calm, and that's one less sensation. Now you put them in a room, you make sure they're safe, they’re in a soft bed. There's nothing sharp poking them. They feel comfortable. They’re feeling comfortable next to you. You start reading them a story. What's the best kind of story? The story they already know: something rhythmic, something predictable, like Dr Seuss. It has the cadence. They know everything that's coming. And then they just sit there, and they're relaxing, you're slowing down their brain, their body temperature’s lower. There's no sensation. The lights are low. You're not putting on loud music. They're not moving around a bunch. And now they start feeling like they're going to sleep, and you convince them they're gonna be safe, and you walk out. It's the same. We need the same.

Lisa: We need to turn the lights off.

Dr Kirk: You don’t have to put on onesies but yeah, but everything else, it’s all the same. We need all the same stuff.

Lisa: Yeah, and I think, one of the things that, trying to get your kids asleep and obviously, psychologically safe, but having them in a dark room without a nightlight, if possible. I don't know if you know Professor Andrew Huberman. He was talking about the other day, the light getting to the eyes of the child, the night lights and things that we have on for kids are actually causing myopia, short-sightedness in children as well. That's another thing besides the whole sleep rhythm thing. But that was an interesting one as well.

Dr Kirk: But one final thought: if anyone in your audience is specifically having problems with stress, they know they're having problems with stress or they suspect they’re having problems with stress, I'm sure you'll post it in your show notes. But my website, docparsley.com. There's a downloadable PDF in there. I think it's a docparsley.com/stress/ And there's a downloadable PDF that gives you a whole program for how do you decrease stress around sleep.

Lisa: Okay, all right. I’ll download it myself.

Dr Kirk: You're taking an hour to describe it. So I just point people towards the PDF.

Lisa: Okay, people get on Dr Parsley’s website and get that stress download, that free download. Check out Doc Parsley’s Sleep Remedy. Make sure you start to implement all of these things and give us some feedback. Let Dr Parsley know what you think about all of this. Because I'm sure you'll be interested in feedback from people as well. Dr Parsley, thank you so much for your time. I really thank you for all the work you're doing and the amazing research and everything. This is absolutely amazing.

Dr Kirk: And well, appreciate you having me on. Anyone who doesn't know anything about it but I get to share it with people, and I'm too lazy to have my podcast.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We all have something we want to pursue, a goal or an objective we want to reach. We might not always know what it is from the get-go, but as we go on, we can find what we value doing the most. Now, there may be obstacles in our paths, making it feel like our goals are but unachievable and improbable dreams. However, when you are pursuing what you value, nothing can stop you from achieving your destiny.

In this episode, world-renowned human behaviour specialist Dr John Demartini joins us to inspire you to start pursuing what you value. He shares advice and a range of wonderful stories on this topic. Learning about delegation can greatly help you with pursuing what you value. We also talk about the neuroscience of flow states and getting people to understand the quality of your work.

If you’re mulling over starting your journey to doing what you love, listen to this episode! This might be the push you need to reach for what you’ve thought was improbable.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn about delegation and how you can utilise it to make the most out of your job. 2. Discover the two different flow states that come into play when you’re doing what you love best. 3. Listen to a variety of enlightening stories that show how pursuing what you value can change your life.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to the Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #198: How to Prioritise and Reach Your Goals with Dr John Demartini * Connect with Dr Demartini: Website | Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube * Check out Elon Musk’s interview on 60 Minutes. * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness!

Episode Highlights [04:21] Achieving the Improbable * No matter what obstacles you face, you will get up again if you have a big enough reason. * Each of us has a set of priorities. At the very top is our destiny, which is non-negotiable. * When you’re pursuing what you value, you’ll continue regardless of pleasure or pain. * By delegating low-priority things, you can go on pursuing what you value.

[09:20] The Importance of Delegation * As long as you’re doing your top priority, something that produces the most per hour, it doesn’t cost to delegate. * Delegation frees up your time so you can pursue something that makes more income. * However, when you don’t recruit the right person, you end up losing money because you’re having to micromanage and getting distracted.

[14:07] Hiring the Right People * Do the basics, such as references and background checks. * Dr Demartini specifically asks what applicants would do if they never had to work another day in their life. * If they don’t answer something close to the job description, he turns them down. * Don’t hire somebody who can’t see how the job you’re offering can fulfil their highest value. * Tune in to the full episode to hear how Dr Demartini helped one of his applicants pursue what they value!

[26:06] Job Security vs. Pursuing What You Value * Dr Demartini shares a story about how he guided a young man to chase after his dreams. He sees this man eight years later, the owner of eight franchises. * Many people stay in their jobs because of security. However, quitting work and pursuing what you value is your choice. * Dr Demartini’s recalls a time when he accompanied a ditch digger to work. He was so proud of his job, as he brings water—and life—to people. * It doesn’t matter if the job seems small, as long as you’re pursuing what you value.

[44:30] Taking Pride in What You Do * When your identity revolves around pursuing what you value, the higher your pride is in your workmanship. * You’ll excel in whatever you do, as long as you’re pursuing what you value. * People who are pursuing what they value go beyond what is expected of them.

  • Whether you start early or late, you can always begin pursuing what you value.
  • Master planning is a way to get there quickly.

[46:26] The Neuroscience of Flow States * There are two flow states. The manic flow state is a high that does not last long, as it is driven by the amygdala and dopamine. * You get into your real flow state when you are pursuing what you value—something truly inspiring and meaningful. * In the real flow state, you're willing to embrace both pain and pleasure while you are pursuing what you value. * Dr Demartini likens the two states to infatuation versus love. Infatuation is short-lived and only sees the positives; love endures even the negatives. * Manic flow is transient; real flow is eternal.

[53:33] Finding the Middle and Paying for Quality * You shouldn’t get over-excited about good things and over-depressed about bad ones. Stay in the middle. * Looking at the downsides isn’t cynicism. It shows that you have grounded objectives. * Dr Demartini’s father, who is in the plumbing business, carefully considers all variables before taking on a project. As such, he charges more than competitors. * People will be more willing to pay for your work once you explain what sets it apart from others. * If you get defensive about your work, you start to sound arrogant. Instead, try to be informative about the value of what you offer.

[1:03:32] Staying Stable and Flexible * Dr Demartini is neither excited nor fearful about the future. * He looks at both sides so that he does not become too elated or depressed. Emulating this can help you be stable enough to keep pursuing what you value. * Over support leads to juvenile dependency, while challenges encourage independence. * Adapt and do what needs to be done. If you can’t delegate it to others, learn to do it yourself.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode [05:34] ‘Nothing mortal, can interfere with an immortal vision.’

[07:00] ‘There’s wisdom in not doing low priority things; there’s wisdom in not pursuing something that’s not truly and deeply meaningful to you.’

[23:18] ‘Don’t ever hire anybody who can’t see how the job description you want can help them fulfil their highest value.’

[44:37] ‘The pride in workmanship goes up to the degree that it’s congruent with what you value most.’

[50:26] ‘Fantasies aren’t obtainable, objectives are.’

[54:31] ‘If you’re overexcited, you’re blind to the downside.’

[1:06:22] ‘People can be really resourceful if somebody doesn’t rescue them.’

About Dr Demartini Dr John Demartini has been a public speaker for nearly 50 years. He is a world-renowned specialist in human behaviour, researcher, author, and educator. He empowers people from all walks of life by sharing his knowledge on self-development and financial wellness.

One of his fields of interest is personal development where he has developed a curriculum of programs. One of his seminars, The Breakthrough Experience, uses his revolutionary techniques, the Demartini Method and the Demartini Value Determination Process.

If you want to learn more about Dr Demartini and his work, you may visit his website. You can also see him on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and YouTube

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you were inspired to start pursuing what you value, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they too can be pushed to go after their passion.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa, brought to you by www.lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: I want to welcome you back to Pushing The Limits. This week, I have Dr John Demartini. Now you may recognise that latter name. He's been on the show before. And he's definitely one that I want to have him back on again. He is an incredible teacher, and educator, and author of I don't know how many dozens of books. He's been working in the personal development in space for 50 years, I think. Incredible man.

I hope you enjoy part two of this very in-depth conversation about upgrading your life–how to grow your businesses. We talk about also how to reach your full potential. And what sort of things we put in our own way. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr John. Also, I would like to let you know we have a Boost Camp coming up. This is a, not a boot camp. It's all about upgrading your life. This is all about being the best version of yourself that you can be, upgrading everything in your life from your health fundamentals to things like sleep, and understanding your brain better your mood and behaviour. Lots and lots of science, and lots of information, and stuff that's going to be actually practical stuff that you can implement in your life to improve how you're performing your health, your vision and purpose in life. And aligning all of these things together.

I hope you'll come and join us. This is an eight-week program that is live with Neil Wagstaff and myself. Neil is my longtime coach and business partner. And he runs all the programs with me that we do with epigenetics, with running hot coaching, and so on. And he is an incredible teacher. I do hope you'll check it out. You can go to peakwellnessco.co.nz, peakwellness, p-e-a-k, peak wellness dot co dot NZ forward-slash boost camp, b-o-o-s-t-c-a-m-p. To find out more, and come and join us, it's going to be a fantastic writer and you're going to learn an awful lot and get to hang out with a whole bunch of people while you're doing it. So check that out.

I also like to remind you too, of our Patron program. We have a Patron program for the podcast to help us keep this on-air, keep us great content, to help us keep the mission going. If you're into doing that, please, for the price of a coffee or a month. Sorry, a coffee a month, you can be involved in this project. And you can also get a whole lot of exclusive member benefits for your troubles. So check all that out at patron.lisatamati.com, p-a-t-r-o-n dot lisa tamati dot com. Right. Now, over to the show with Dr John Demartini.

Hi, everyone. And welcome back to Pushing The Limits. I'm super excited to have an amazing name back again for a second round, Dr John Demartini. Welcome to the show, Dr John. It's fabulous to have you back again.

Dr John: Demartini: Yes, thank you for having me back.

Lisa: It's just–I was so blown away by our conversation last time. And I know you do thousands of these interviews and in the work that you do that you probably can't even remember what you talked about. But it was a real life-changing episode that ended up– we dived into some of your medical work earlier. We went all over the place with your breakthrough experience. I just felt like we didn't quite cover all the bases that I want to tap into your great knowledge.

Having you back again today, and today I thought we'd look at things like I want to dive into things like, ‘How do we achieve the impossible?’ I've been doing a lot of work and researching around, what is it that makes incredible people incredible? And that they had the ability to overcome incredible odds and difficulties and obstacles in order to achieve some possible things. And I'm pretty much into a lot of the big thinkers out there. So I wanted to start directly if that’s okay. How do we achieve the impossible, Dr John?

Dr John: Well, I don't know. Maybe that's a bit of a metaphor–the impossible is impossible.

Lisa: But yeah, it's a metaphor.

Dr John: Improbable, the improbable.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr John: When the why is big enough the hows take care of thems elves. When you have a big enough reason for doing something, no matter how many obstacles you face, you get up again. And there was an interview. There was an interview by a gentleman I think from 60 minutes with Elon Musk. And they asked him after having three launches explode back to back. ‘You ever think about giving up?’ He looked at the guy and he says, ‘I never give up. I'd have to be incapacitated.’ Meaning that his mission to go to Mars is too important for any obstacle that might arise to stop it. I would say nothing mortal can interfere with an immortal vision.

Each of us, as you know, have a set of priorities. And the very top, top, top priority is non-negotiable. It's where human sovereignty and divine providence come together, where you feel that it's impossible for you not to fulfil your true destiny. I feel that way with my mission of speaking. I just felt that that was my destiny when I was 17. And I've been doing it 48 plus years now, be soon 49 in a few months. So if you'd have a big enough reason for doing it, you'll see the challenges on the way, not in the way. It's like Edison, a thousand ways to that didn't work for the light bulb to get the light bulb. There was no option about getting a light bulb, he knew he would come up with an answer, he just kept, ‘Okay, that doesn't work. Okay, next. That one doesn't work, next.’

When things are lower on your value, you'll do it if there's pleasure; you'll stop doing it if there's pain. When something's tying your value, you’ll do it regardless of pleasure or pain. And you'll see both of them on the way, not in the way. So there's wisdom in not doing low-priority things. There's wisdom in not pursuing something that's not truly and deeply meaningful to you. People who do that build incremental momentum that reaches an unstoppable state, an inertia that's unstoppable. That's the key to extraordinary things. And when it's truly aligned with your value, your identity revolves around it, you feel it’s impossible for you not to do it. It's not an option; it’s who you are.

Lisa: So this involves looking at your values determination, how to sort out what your real– because I think this is where a lot of us come unstuck. We have lots of things we want to do, and we're curious about lots of things and have lots of passions, and it's sorting out the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, in order, distilling down that vision so that you're actually hyper-focused and being able to concentrate on the things that you need to concentrate on. I know that's something that I definitely struggle with, when you have so many things that you're interested in. But you're really right when you say like, for me, with my story with my mom, if you remember bringing her back from the mess of aneurysm, there was a non-negotiable. We were doing it, and I was going to get her back or die trying was the attitude that I went inwards. That means sacrificing whatever it took to get to that place. And then we do get there, you know?

Dr John: Well, the thing is not to pursue low-priority things, and to know what those are, and say and delegate everything other than what's important. I don't do anything but research, write, teach. Those are the three things I love doing. But it's all about educating people in human behaviour. So that's the one thing that is non-negotiable that I do. Then I delegate everything else away. That way, you don't have to be distracted and run down. What drains you is doing low priority things.

Lisa: Yeah. And this is a lot– yeah, this is a lot that a lot of people, especially startup entrepreneurs, and people that are just getting there, finding your way, are struggling with: the whole delegation thing when they don't have a team around them. What sort of advice do you want to give to people who are at the beginning of their career and don't have a team yet around them to help do all those aspects of it that are draining the hell out of their lives?

Dr John: Well, what you do is you ask the question, ‘How is doing this action temporarily until I can find somebody to delegate it to helping me fulfil my mission?’ Link it to your brain. Reframe its words. You see it on the way, not in a way, with the knowing that you're going to delegate it. And then, it doesn't cost to delegate. It costs not to. As long as you're doing what's highest in priority that produces the most per hour, it doesn't cost to delegate. Because you're releasing yourself to do the most important thing that produces the most income that produces more than the cost of the delegation, and that they can produce. And yet the person that would love to do that inspired to do that but doesn't have to be motivated to do that. They will spontaneously do it without even thinking about it, you can free yourself up.

In 1982, end of 1982, I hired somebody to take care of my financial things: paying payroll, paying bills, bank reconciliations, all that stuff. Because I was sitting there in October of 1982. I was sitting there doing a bank balance, like, ‘What on earth am I doing?’ I didn't want to do it. It was distracting, time-consuming. And while I was doing it, I didn't want to think about clients because it was interfering. I needed to get this done, and I'm pushing clients away. I freed that up, and I have not gone back, nor even seen a chequebook. That’s 1982.

Lisa: Gosh I would love that.

Dr John: I can’t even tell you what a chequebook in my company looks like.

Lisa: Or accounting or any software.

Dr John: I don’t have any of that stuff. I have somebody that does that. That's their job. I– because that's a 20 to $50 an hour job. And why do I value my time? Well, I can make thousands per hour, and tens of thousands per hour.

Lisa: But what about the people that can't make the ten thousands of per hour or the thousands per hour, and there's still a net, they're still in taking that leap into getting the first person in the team on board and the second person. I think there's a lot of people in that, jumping from, say, the $100,000 mark to the million-dollar mark of a turnover in a company where it's chaos. I think it's chaos beyond that as well. But it's that getting the initial, taking that risk when you don't have a solid income yet, and yet, you're taking a risk on hiring a business manager or hiring whatever, even assistants.

Dr John: If you have a clear job description and you have a clear actions that you can do that can produce more per hour than having to do those things, and you can see, ‘Well, I'm doing five hours a day doing trivial. If I had those five hours, could I go out and close deals?’ If you're willing to do that it doesn't cost, ever cost, to hire people.

Lisa: Yeah. So it's a mindset shift, really?

Dr John: Yeah. Because what happens is you think, well, if you're not going to be productive, and they're now, you're just going to pay somebody to do something you were doing, and you're not going to go produce more per hour than it's going to cost. But it frees you up to do something that closes a deal or makes a bigger deal. Makes more income. You're insane not to do it. Now, in my situation, I saw that if I was out doing presentations and taking care of clients, I can make more than tenfold what is going to cost, 20-fold to 100-fold what I was going to pay somebody to do it. It's a no-brainer.

It doesn't cost to hire somebody. Unless you do it ineffectively. You are somebody who doesn't love doing it, you're pushing him uphill, is not inspired by it, and you have the skill by it, and you're micromanaging him and you're having to distract yourself, and you're not doing the thing that produces. That's why it costs money. Not because of delegation, but inadequate delegation.

Lisa: So in other words, recruiting the right people to your team is a huge piece of this and getting the right— So what are some of the things that you do when you're analysing somebody to take on into your team? What are some of the processes that you go through from an entrepreneurial standpoint?

Dr John: Well, I do all the basics: references and checks and those things. But I just sit them down when I meet them if they get through the screening. I sit down with them. I said, ‘If I was to write a check right now for $10 million and handed it to you, and you never had to work another day in your life. What would you do with your life?’ If they're, they don't say what the job is or close to it, I say, ‘Thank you very much.’ I walk away.

Lisa: Right? Because they're not. That's not the key thing.

Dr John: That's not their dream. Can I share an interesting story? I don't think I shared this before. Sorry. If I had, just tell me, cut me off. When I was in practice many years ago, I was hiring a manager, and I was scaling up and delegating more and more. We were down to two people's potentials: one was a woman, one was a man. And the man was in for that evening, about five o'clock. I worked till six, usually, but at five, I was telling my patients, five o'clock, this gentleman comes in. He had passed much of the things I thought. But he came into my office. He had a little briefcase, is about 54, looks like a violator jet, this guy. He comes in, sits down on the edge of his chair, and he says, ‘Wow, this is a great opportunity. I've had the opportunity to work with your company would be fantastic. I'm awe-inspired.’ I said, ‘Great. Hope you don't mind. But I just got a few questions.’ And I had a check. This is back before I got rid of my checks. I got a check that my lady at the front organised. I had the check in front of me. And I said, ‘Your proper name is?’ I put his name on the cheque. I wrote 10 million US dollars.

Lisa: It was a real piece?

Dr John: I didn't sign it, but I just put it there. I made sure he saw it. Because any facade he might have, if he saw a check with $10 million on it, his name on it, that's going to distract him. Because the infatuation of that's going to throw any facade that he might try to put on me, ultimately. So I said, ‘If I was to hand you this cheque,’ and I showed him the cheque. ‘And I gave you $10 million upfront, and you never had to work another day in your life. What would you do?’

Lisa: What did he say?

Dr John: And he leaned back in his chair like this. He goes, he relaxed a second. He goes, ‘Wow, if I had $10 million. What would I do? I would manufacture furniture. I have a hobby. I love making furniture. I'd make furniture and open up furniture companies.’ I said, I got up. I said, ‘Thanks very much.’ He stood up and he was like, ‘What?’ He said, ‘Well, did I get the job?’ I said, ‘No.’ ‘Do you mind if I ask why?’ I said, ‘Very simple. I'm hiring you for a management position. You said if you had $10 million, you'd love to make furniture. If you're a great manager, how come you haven't managed your life in such a way where you can do what you love?’ He just looked at me and he just paused because that's a very good question. ‘And I have nothing I could say, except, you just woke me up.’ I said, ‘Thank you,’ and I escort him out.

I watched him walk with his head down slowly to his car and sit in his car for a few minutes to just process that. He's like going, ‘Whoa. I thought I'm looking for a job. I'm enthused, I'm really excited, everything else. And I just got slammed with a reality check of what was really important to me. And the real truth was, is I love making furniture.’ So he sat in that car, and finally slowly drove off and we ruled him out. We ruled the girl out. So we had to go through another round. Yeah.

Lisa: And so this is part of the process.

Dr John: Three weeks had gone by. And all of a sudden my assistant said. ‘Dr Demartini, there's a gentleman here a few weeks ago that was looking for a job. He's back.’ ‘Alright, okay.’ He said, she said ‘Should I just sent him back in?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ I come down to the same office, same thing, comes in. I'm sitting in the same place, you sit in the same place. But this time, he walks in with a paper bag, a big paper bag, large paper bag with handles on. He said, ‘Dr Demartini,’ shook my hand. He said, ‘Dr Demartini. I was here a few weeks ago,’ I said, ‘Oh. Yeah, I remember you.’ He said, ‘You changed my life.’ I said, ‘How so?’ He said, ‘When I was enthusiastic looking for the job, I've been looking for a job for three months. I didn't find one. I thought when you said, if I'm such a good manager, how come I haven’t managed my own life? And you nailed me. I was a bit depressed after that, and I had a soul searching, and I had a conversation with my wife. Part of the reasons I was taking on jobs is for security instead of doing what I really love to do. And so after that conversation, I told my wife that and I said, “If I was to go out and try to build my own company in furniture manufacturing, would you endure the, whatever we go through to get there?” And she hugged him, and she says, “That's what you've always wanted to do. We'll make ends meet. We'll find a way.”’

He started his company. He started telling people he's there to make furniture and he started making pieces of furniture. He made a bed, and he made a dresser, and he started making furniture and stuff. He also made it available that he could do interior in homes that were being built. He started letting people know in his network. So he's back in my office three weeks later, and he told me that that's the best thing ever happened to his life. He says, ‘I've already got commissioned $5,400 worth of product with the furniture, and that's in three weeks. I'm on track, probably for making $10,000 to my first month now. And that's more than what I was probably going to get paid.’

I said, ‘Congratulations.’ And this is what he said to me. He said, ‘You have no idea how much more energy I have, how inspired I am. I don't care about how many hours it is I'm working. I'm staying up, and I'm a different man. I'm loving it. I'm in, I now understand what an entrepreneur is, a bit.’ And he said, ‘But this is what I want to do. Because you gave me such a gift. When I came in your office, I noticed the wood. Because you filter with your polar nuclei of your diencephalonic thalamus. You put, you filter reality coin, what you value most. So he noticed the wood in my office.

He said, ‘And I noticed that you had Kleenex boxes sitting on these little rolling carts. It would really be honourable for me if I could actually take those little Kleenex boxes, and melt my Kleenex box systems on your wall that match your wood. All you do is lift them up on a hinge, put the Kleenex box and pull the tissue, put it back down to replace it. And then you have more space on your thing, because I noticed you had less space on there than probably ideal. It really means a lot to me if I can put them in all your rooms.’ I said, ‘I would be honoured to have those in there. And I want you to do me a favour. I want you to put your card on the bottom of each one. So I can, for referrals.’ He said, ‘I would be glad to do that.’ He said, ‘But that would mean a lot. Because you just changed my life.’

He ended up doing what he really loved to do, grew his business. I got complimentary things in all my rooms, which was an added bonus. But it just goes to show that people, when they're doing something that's deeply meaningful, truly inspiring, high in priority, they excel. So don't ever hire anybody who can't see how the job description you want to help them fulfil their highest value.

Lisa: Be it personal and be it roles. And not this division of the company.

Dr John: The actual actions. So you make sure you have a job description with all the actions and you ask your potential candidate: ‘How specifically is doing this actually going to help you fulfil what’s most deeply meaningful to you?’ If they can't answer it, don't hire them. If they answer with enthusiasm on all those things, you get them, grab them. If they don't, don't worry because they’re going to be microman— you're gonna have to motivate them. Motivation is a symptom, never a solution to humanity.

Lisa: And in changing that, I've got a friend Joe Polish. If you know Joe, he’s a very famous marketing man and an incredible connector and so on. He talks about, he was talking about entrepreneurship one day, I forget the context of the situation. But he teaches about entrepreneurial things, how to do it. He's hugely successful. Someone said to him once, ‘You've had the same assistant for the last 21 years, for how many years, a lot of years. If she's been hearing you talk about how wonderful it is to be an entrepreneur to do all these things, how come she hasn't gotten that information and runoff and become her own entrepreneur?’

He called the lady over and he said, ‘Why is it that you still with me?’ He knew the answer. But she answered, ‘Because I don't want to take on the risk. That's not my job. That's not my passion. My passion is to serve Joe and be the person in the backstage setting all those things up. That is my highest power. That is what I love. That's why I'm still here. I love working with Joe, and I love his mission. And that's what I'm happy doing.’ That's the key, is not everybody should be an entrepreneur. Or everybody should be having the same mission. It's that she understands what her passions, what the job is.

Dr John: If everybody was an entrepreneur, who would be working for him?

Lisa: Yeah. We'd have a hell of a mess. And being an entrepreneur is a long, arduous, often difficult, lonely road full of holes, along the way, potholes. It isn't for everybody, but for people like you and for me, it's, I can go for it. I've got to be running my own ship. And learning from people like you is great for me because then I can see what helps my next steps and what I should be doing. Instead of—

Dr John: Can I share another story?

Lisa: Go for it.

Dr John: So, right about the same time when I was hiring that other person, a young gentleman, late 20s, I'm guessing, mid to late 20s, came into my office, and asked if he could have a meeting with me. And he worked with Yellow Pages. There used to be a thing called Yellow Page.

Lisa: Yeah. I'm old enough.

Dr John: They were ads, telephone ads. You put a listing, it’s free. But if you put a listing with a little box or a little ad in it, it's a little bit more. You bought the Yellow Page ad. So he was trying to sell Yellow Page ad. So he sat in my office. And he started to do this little spiel. And I had the time. So I took a moment to do it. Because I was curious what the prices were. And at the end of his little spiel, and not even to the end, three quarters through, I stopped him. I said ‘Stop. Just stop.’

That was the worst presentation. That was so off. I said, ‘This is not what you want to do in life. What do you really want to do in life?’ And he looked at me and he goes, ‘That bad?’ And I said, ‘It was bad.’ ‘I bet you haven't sold anything.’ He says, ‘No, I haven't.’ I said, ‘This is not you. What's your heart? Where's your heart? What do you really, really, really, really dream about doing in your career?’ He said, ‘I want to be in the restaurant business.’ I said, ‘Go to a restaurant today to get a job there, and work your way up until you own your restaurant.’ He goes, ‘Well, I needed to hear that. Because I respect you and I needed to hear that from you.’ And then I sold him a little audio cassette tape that I’d done, called The Psychology of Attainment. And he bought it, it was only 10 bucks.

He walked out with his $10 thing to listen to because I knew if he listened to it, it would encourage him to keep it going. He left there. Eight years go by, never seen the guy again. Eight years go by. I had moved to a new office. And I was on my way to go have lunch with my CPA. He picked me up. I came downstairs, he picked me up, took me to this little Super Salad restaurant nearby because we both had less than an hour to eat. So it’s quick. Get in there and get a salad. You walk in and this Super Salad is a thing where you get a tray, and it's got a whole bunch of foods. And whatever it is they weigh it, and they charge you the acquired weight. So you get salad. You pay less if you get something with it.

As I walked in, and we started going to the line, I saw that young man grown up eight years older in this suit, talking to another man in a suit. And I said, ‘If you don't mind going get me a tray. And I'll catch up. I see someone I must say hi to.’ I walk over to this guy. He's talking this man. He's not paying attention to me. I'm standing right next to him. And as he's talking I'm just standing there waiting for him to finish. All of a sudden he finishes, the guy starts to walk off he turns around as if he's going to say, ‘Can I help you?’

Lisa: Yeah, he didn't realise this.

Dr John: And obviously he looks at me and he goes, ‘Oh my god. Wow, wow.’ He shook my hand, and ran off and got the other guy to come here, ‘This is the guy I told you about.’ And he told him, ‘This is the guy.’ And the guy said, ‘Oh, thank you. I'd love to meet you. He's told me all about you, he said you changed his life.’ And I said, ‘Well didn't know until today. What impact–

Lisa: What are you doing? Yeah.

Dr John: But the guy told me, he says, ‘I have eight franchises. I come into my restaurant. That was the manager. I'm checking up on my restaurants and I’ll go to the next one. I check them out once a week, I go make my rounds.’ He said, ‘That day, I got me a job at Super Salad. I worked myself into a management position for over two years. As I was saving the heck out of my money, which your tape set said to do, I bought into the franchises and I got eight franchises.’

Lisa: Jesus! Just from that one tape, that one conversation, see this is the impact–

Dr John: I said to him, ‘You just inspired me.’ It brought a tear to my eye to know that– because I thought maybe I was a bit tough on you. He said, ‘Sir, you did the most amazing thing to my life that day. Because the truth is, I wanted to be in the restaurant business. And now I am.’

Lisa: Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new Patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing The Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our Patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody, and we want to keep it that way. But to do that, we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a Patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's p-a-t-r-o-n dot lisatamati dot com. We have two patron levels to choose from. You can do it for as little as $7 a month, New Zealand, or $15 a month if you really want to support us. So we are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us, everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power to vote on future episodes, webinars that we're going to be holding, all of my documentaries and much, much more. So check out all the details: patron.lisatamati.com, and thanks very much for joining us.

Lisa: You've encouraged him basically to have faith in the dream and to– because everybody else, like your family, often your friends, often are, ‘You can't leave that safe job.’ I've had this conversation with my husband who's a firefighter. And he says like, ‘I can never leave the fire brigade because it's what I've always done. And that's how I've always, you know, it was my passion,’ and so on. And I said, ‘Yes, but you don't have to stay there. That's your choice. Opt for security and– If you want security, if you want to do something, then do it. Life is short.’

Dr John: All I know is that if you're not doing something you're inspired by, life can be pretty horrible. I see people. I didn't, I used to get, I lived in New York for a while. And we lived in Trump Tower there, fifty-sixth and fifth, right underneath Donald, so I knew Donald. So I live there for 29 years. And sometimes, you can take taxi. Sometimes, you take, when we’re going in the airport, I got a limo. But just going around the city, sometimes I'd have a taxi. I get in the taxi and I– if there was a mess, sometimes I'd pass it by. I go, ‘No, smelly. No, no respect.’ But again, in a taxi– if I'm in a hurry, it's hard to get, right? It's 3:30 to 4 o'clock march, I get in whatever I get, because I don't want to wait another 20 minutes. But I get it and I go, ‘How long have you been driving a taxi?’ And they'll say a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, whatever it may be. I said, ‘Do you love it?’ Some will look in the mirror and go, ‘Pays the bills, man.’ And I said, ‘But do you love it?’ He goes, ‘Are you kidding, man? If I got a thing in New York, you got to be nuts.’ And they have that attitude.

Of course, the car is usually a mess. It's got ripped holes in it. It's got cigarette burns. It's got a little bit of an odour. You know it’s not taken cared of; it’s not clean. But then you get in another car. And, ‘How long have you driven a taxi?’ ‘28 years.’ I said, ‘Do you love it?’ ‘I love it. I get to meet people like yourself. I meet the most amazing people every day. My father was a taxi driver. My grandfather was a taxi driver in New York. I know every city, every street, I know every part of the city. Here's my card. You want some water?’ ‘Sure.’ ‘Anything you need to let, give me feedback about my car, please tell me. If there's something not in order, if somebody left something there, if it's dirty, let me know. I’d like to make sure that everybody gets a good experience in my car. If you want to know about the city, you just ask me. Anytime you want to go anywhere in the city, you contact me. And there's my card, I will take you, and I'll make sure you got the best thing, and I'll be on time for you.’ He was just engaged. And he loved it. And of course, I got his card. And I called him. And sometimes when I was going around the city, I would use him. He would even come back and pick me up.

Lisa: And it shows you that it doesn't matter if you're cleaning toilets or you're a taxi driver or you're at the garbage disposal. Whatever job you're doing, do it well, for starters. That can be your mission in life, is to provide that service. It doesn't have to be taking on the world and flying to Mars like Elon Musk. It's just, do your job; do it well. I don’t, I just– I have issue too, with people who just doing the job, getting the paycheck, not doing the job with passion.

You can tell. I walk into my gym and there's a new lady on reception who is just beaming from ear to ear, fully enthusiastic. I see her training; she trains like a maniac. She's just always happy and positive. When somebody comes into that gym now, they get a positive smiley receptionist. ‘Come in’ and ‘How was your day?’ The contrast to the other person that works at the gym who's surly looking, never smiles. And if you, say ‘Hello, how are you doing?’ It's like, ‘Mmm.’ And you think, ‘Wow, that is just the difference between someone who's just, “I'm so lucky to be here” and “I'm working.”’

Dr John: They're engaged versus disengaged. Can I share another story?

Lisa: This is great.

Dr John: Right. My father, I started working for my father when I was four. He owned a plumbing business. He wasn't a plumber. He's an engineer, but he had plumbers working for him. And my job was to clean the nipples. And they sound a little sexual, but it's actually, these little pipes and couplings, so it's interesting. But I used to scrape them out with a brush and oil them to make sure they would be preserved because they'll get a little rusty sitting around. Then, my dad would then, every once while, not every day, but most of the time, would give me the opportunity to go out with the plumbers to go on calls to learn plumbing. Everyone, so he would say, ‘Well, you're going to go with Joe today. You're going to go with Bob. You're going to go with Warren. You're going to go with…’ And this one day, he said, ‘You're going to go with Jesse.’

I spend part of the day with Jesse. And Jesse was a ditch digger. He was an Afro-American man that was a ditch digger. And I said, ‘You want me to go with Jessie, am I going to dig a ditch?’ He said, ‘Yes. I want you to go with Jesse.’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘You'll know when you get back.’ ‘Okay.’ So I go out with Jesse. We drive to this house that is about a 35-year-old house that needs a new water main from the street, the main from the street up to the house. And so he got a T-bar out, and he got a hose, and he got some paper, and he got a sharpshooter, which is a special shovel, and a little round-headed shovel, and a level and a string. This long string thing wrapped up on this piece of wood. And some, and another stick. The stick that had string around it where there are two sticks on either end. You could open them up unravelling.

He stayed one at one place, stayed the other place, exactly where the line is going to go. Then he took a T-bar and went down into the ground to make sure there's no roots, no rocks, no anything that might interfere with the laying of a pipe. Then he watered it to make sure that you could go and if you dug it, it was just wet enough that it wouldn't crumble if you turn the sod over. And then he lined paper on one side of it. And then he showed me how to dig the ditch. I would go down to exactly the width of the sharpshooter, which is how deep it had to go. And then we would turn it over onto the paper. And that meant that the grass wasn’t even cut, it was just folded over. Right. And we had a perfectly straight ditch. And then he showed me how to create the ditch with this other little thing. And it would go on top of the sides. It wouldn't fall off into the grass. It would just be on top of the paper, and on the inside. Then he took the level and he made sure that the grade was perfectly level from one place to the other because if you have a dip in it, water will sit there and rust and it'll wear out quicker. But if it flows exactly in line, you don't get as many rusting.

We put this pipe down, pretty perfectly clear, perfectly graded. We levelled it, made sure it was perfectly level. We installed it to the house, into the main. We then put some of the dirt back over it. Put the sod back on, patted it down, watered it, squished it down, loosened up the grass so you couldn't even tell it had ever been done now. And we had a brand new waterline done. And when you're done, you could not, until you could walk around, you couldn't tell it was done. It was perfect. And then we got in the truck and started to drive off. And I asked, you know, Jesse, his name was. I said, ‘That was neat.’ You know, I'm a young kid. And I said, ‘Call me J for John.’

He said, ‘J, I have the greatest job on this planet, the greatest job a man could ever, ever, ever ask for.’ And I said, ‘What do you mean?’ I thought he's a ditch digger. He said, ‘Without water, people die. I bring life to people. My job is the most important job. They can't bathe. They can't drink. They can't make food. They can't do anything without my water pipe. I had the most important job on this planet. And I bring water to people. Without water people die.’ And I thought, ‘Whoa.’ And I came back and he said to me, ‘My job is to do such an amazing job that they call the office and complain that we never came.’

Lisa: Because they can't see where he’s been!

Dr John: It's so immaculate. They don't believe that somebody came and they’ll call and cuss out your dad. “Why is it not, why did you not do the main?” And your dad knows. Tell them, “If you don't mind just walk out. They will see that the main is there.”’ They're unbelievably astonished that there was no mess and it's perfect. And he didn’t tell us about Jesse, and the respect he does when he does water main. He knew that if I would go out there and learn from him, here's a man that does what he loves. Yeah, and he’s the ditch digger. And in those days, you didn't make a little bit, you didn't make a lot of money.

Lisa: And I love that. And it just reminds me of my dad. He was always cleaning up at the garden. He was a firefighter professionally, but he would be, every spare moment, gardening somebody's garden, cleaning up, landscaping, doing it. And he worked on films as a landscape artist and so on. He was always the one that was cleaning everything up, everything was immaculate by the end of the day. Whereas every, all the other workers were just, ‘Down tools. It's five o'clock, we're off,’ sort of thing. Drop it and run. Everything was always a mess.

My dad, he always had everything perfectly done. And was, always came home satisfied because he'd spent, when he wasn't at the fire brigade, he spends his day with his hands in the dirt, out on the sun, physically working in nature, and loving it and doing a proper job of it. So yeah, it just reminded me because he taught us all those things as we were growing up too. And would take us and teach us how to paint and teach us how to, all of these things.

Dr John: The more something is high on your value that you're doing, your identity revolves around your highest value. Whatever is highest on your value, your identity revolves around. As a result of it, the pride in workmanship goes up to the degree that it's congruent with what you value most. Because you're inspired and love doing it. And it's, your identity goes around it. So my identity would rather revolve around teaching. So I'm inspired to do teaching. I can't wait to do it.

Whatever high an individual's values is what they're going to excel at most. And they are wanting to do it not because they have to, but because they love to. People do something they love to, completely do a different job than people that have to. They’re creative, innovative. They go out of their way. They don't care if they have to work extra time. They don't care about those things because they're doing what they love.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. I love it. You have some fabulous stories to illustrate the point. So whatever you're doing people, do it properly, and do it with passion, and try to get to where you want to. You might, this just takes time to get to where you want to go. You come out of school, you're not going to end up being near the top of your game. But you have to start somewhere and head towards what your passion is. I wanted to figure—

Dr John: If you start out right at the very beginning, master planning, you can get there pretty quick. In 18 months, I went from doing everything, to do the two or three things that I did most effectively. I delegated the rest away. But my income went up tenfold.

Lisa: Wow. Yeah. Because you were actually doing the things that mattered the most.

Dr John: Me going out and speaking and me doing the clinical work was the two things that I was, because that's the thing I went to school for. That's what I wanted to do. I didn't want to do the administrative or I didn't want to do all that other stuff. Hire people to do that. That freed me up.

Lisa: Yeah, it's a fantastic message. Now, I wanted to flip directions on you if I could, and I've been doing a lot of study around flow states and optimising. How do we build into ourselves this ability to be operating at our best, which we've been talking a little bit about? What neurotransmitters are at play when we're in a flow state? How do we maintain this over time to remain inspired and not be worn down?

We think about flow state or I don’t know how to put this into words, people. By that I mean, it's that state where you're just on fire, where everything's happening really well, you're at your genius place, your talents are being expressed properly, and you’re just in it. I would get that when I'm running, or when I was making jewellery and I would, time would disappear, and I'd be just in this otherworldly place, almost sometimes. How do we tap into that? Because that is where we as human beings can be our optimal, be our best. Have you got any ideas around that as far as the neurotransmitters and the neuroscience of flow states?

Dr John: Yes. It boils down to the very same thing I was saying a moment ago: not doing low priority things. There’s two flow states though, and they get confused. Maybe people have confused a manic elated, utopic, euphoric high, which is a fantasy of all positives, no negatives in the brain that makes you manic. That flow state is a hypocriticality, amygdala-driven, dopamine-driven fantasy high that won't last.

Then there's a real flow state. When you're doing something that's truly inspiring and deeply meaningful, you get tears in your eyes getting to do it. You're not having a hypocriticality, you're having a supercriticality, where the very frontal cortex is actually activated, not the lateral but the medial one, and you're now present. It's the gratitude centre; it's grace. There you're in the flow because you're doing something you really love to do that you feel is your identity. That's where time stops.

Some people confuse a manic episode with that state. But a manic episode crashes. But the real flow state is inspired. That's when you're able to do what you love doing consistently. When Warren Buffett is doing, reading business statements, and financial statements, and deciding what companies to buy, this is what he loves doing. For me, I'm studying human behaviour and anything to do with the brain, and mind, and potential, and awareness. I'm that way. I can lose track of all time and just be doing it for hours. It's not a manic state. That's an inspired state. An inspired state is an intrinsically driven state where you're willing to embrace pain and pleasure in the pursuit of it.

You love tackling challenges and solving problems, and you'll just research and research or do whatever you're doing, and you just keep doing it because you won't stop. That's not a manic episode. Although manics can look similar, there's a difference. Though a manic state comes from the dopamine, you got a high dopamine, usually high serotonin, you got encapsulants, endorphins. But you also don't have, you're not perceiving the downsides. You're just seeing all upsides. You are blinded by little fantasy about what's going to happen. And that eventually catches you, because that it’s not obtainable. Fantasies are not obtainable, objectives are.

Eventually, the other side comes in, and osteocalcins comes in and norepinephrine, epinephrine, cortisol, the stress responses. Because all of, all of a sudden your fantasy’s not being met. But when you think you're going after the fantasy, just think of it this way: when you're infatuated with somebody, you're enamoured. You're in this euphoria. All you see is the upside, and you're blind to the downside. Actually, at this time, you say, ‘I'm in love.’ No, you're infatuated. And then when weeks go by, and months go by, you start to find out, ‘Oh, I was fooled. That person I thought was there is not who I thought.’ And you find out about this person. And that's short-lived. Yeah.

When you actually know that human beings can have both sides, and you don't have a fantasy of one side, but you embrace both sides, and know that they're a human being with a set of values. If you can communicate and articulate what you want in terms of those values, you now have a fulfilling relationship. It's a long term relationship. It's not volatile. It's not manic depressive. It's just steady. That's the one that's the flow. That's what allows the relationship to grow. The manic thing is transient. The real flow is eternal.

Lisa: So it's the difference between being in love, and infatuated, and being in actual true real long-term love.

Dr John: Well, infatuation, people confuse with love. If I have an expectation on you to be nice, never mean; kind, never cruel; positive, never negative; peaceful, never wrathful, giving, never taking; generous, never stingy; considerate, never inconsiderate. If I have a fantasy about who you are and I'm high because I think I've found this person, that's ‘Oh, well, it's all one-sided.’ It's not sustainable. No one's gonna live that way. But if I have an expectation, if they're a human being with a set of values, I can rely on them to do what's highest on their value, and nothing more. I respect their value, I see how it’s serving my value, and I can appreciate what they're committed to, and don't have any expectation except them to do what they do. They won't let me down. And I'll be grateful for them.

Lisa: Why didn't you tell her that when I was a 20-year-old finding the wrong people in my life? Relationship-wise, are you going after the wrong types of people?

Dr John: If you go after it a little infatuation, you have to pay with a broken crush. You never have a broken heart; you have a broken fantasy. Eventually, it helps you actually learn to go after what's in your heart.

Lisa: And value what is really important. Gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have had never met a lot sooner?

Dr John: There's no mistake, so much happened, because you wouldn't be doing this project.

Lisa: No. Then this is what every piece of crap that's ever come your way in life has got an upside and a downside. Because I hear in one of your lectures talking about this: don't get ever overexcited, and don't get really depressed. It's always in the middle. You put it so eloquently, it was, whenever something good happens to you, don't get too overly excited about it. And whenever something bad happens to you, don't get overly depressed about it. Because there's something in the middle of there. You're not seeing the downsides of that good thing, and you're not seeing the upsides.

I've actually integrated that now into my life. When something good, I used to have this thing, ‘Oh my god, I have this breakthrough. I've had this breakthrough.’ And ‘This happened to me.’ And then I'll go and talk about it. And, because I'm a very open person and I found actually that's not good in a couple of ways. Because I'm overexcited about it. I've ticked it off in my brain almost as being happened.

Dr John: If you're overexcited, you're blind to the downside.

Lisa: Yeah. And you think it's already happened. Say you meet someone, new possible job, or it’s a possible contract, or something like that. And you got all excited about it. Because you've got you've initiated the process, but in your brain, you've already ticked that box and got the job and you're off.

Dr John: Then you undermine it. And you said it’s related about a job opportunity. You usually have it taken away from you. You're mostly unready for it. If you're really ready for the job opportunity, you're going to know what it's going to take workwise to be able to get paid. You’ll already get the downside and your objective. And know, ‘Oh, that's gonna be 28 hours of work here.’

Lisa: That's not cynical, that's not cynicism. That's actually not realism.

Dr John: It's grounded objectives. People who keep grounded objectives don't have job opportunities taken away from them. But people who get elated about it, brag about it, talk about it, almost inevitably disappears.

Lisa: Wow. Okay. And so you got to be looking at, I've elated— a couple of opportunities come up that are possibly I'm thinking about doing. I'm like, ‘That one's gonna take so much work in this direction. That means going to be the sacrifice for you.’ And the old me would have just gone, ‘Yeah. Let's do it, jump in. And I’m like, ‘Am I just getting old or is this actually a better way to be?’

Dr John: My dad taught me something as a plumbing industry. He'd have to, they'd say, ‘Okay, we're going to build this house. Here's all the plumbing that’s going to be involved in it.’ They'd see the plans. He'd have to do an estimate. What would it cost to produce all that, put that together? If he got elated and he didn't do his cost, by the time he finishes, he didn't make any profit. But if he does his due diligence and knows all the responsibilities, what happens if it rains? What happens if there's delays? What happens if the permits are delayed? He puts all the variables in there and checks it all off. He then goes in to the customer and says, ‘This is what it's going to cost.’

He said, sometimes the customer would come to him and say, ‘Well, yeah. But this other one came in at $10,000 cheaper.’ My dad would sit there and he would say to him, he said, ‘I want to show you something. I guarantee you, the man that comes in at $10,000 cheaper, is not going to be thinking of all the variables. You're going to end up not having the job that we're going to do. Let me make sure you understand this. You may not hire me, and that's okay. But I want to make sure you're informed you make a wise decision. Because if you don't, you're going to go pay that side to save $10,000, it's going to cost you an extra 10.’

Lisa: Yep. Been there, done that.

Dr John: Well, my dad used to go through it, and with a fine-tooth comb, he explained all the different variables. He says, ‘Now, what I want you to do is go back to the person that's giving you those things and ask them all those questions. If they didn't think about it, they're going to either not make money off you and they're not going to want to continue to do the work. Or they're not going to do a great job because they're losing money. Or you're going to end up getting a thing done, then they're never going to want to do follow up and take care of you again as a customer. So here's what it costs. I've been doing this a long time. I know what it costs. I know what the property is. So I'd rather you know the facts, and be a little bit more and make sure it's done properly. Then go and save a few bucks and find out the hard way.’ Here's the questions they go check. They came back to my dad.

Lisa: Yep. When they understood that whole thing. And I think this is a good thing in every piece of, every part of life. It's not always the cheapest offering that's the best offering, which you learn the hard way.

Dr John: I had somebody come to me not too long ago, maybe four months ago, earlier this year. And said, ‘I go to so and so's seminar for almost half the price of your seminar. Why would I go to your seminar?’ And I said, ‘That's like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Volkswagen.’ I said, ‘So let me explain what you're going to get here. Let me explain what you're going to get here. Then you can make a decision. If you want that Volkswagen outcome, that's fantastic. If you want a Rolls Royce, I'm on the Rolls Royce. I'm going to give you something about here.’ And once you explain it, and make the distinctions, people will pay the difference.

Lisa: Yeah. And that's– in a business, you have to be able to explain to them as well. When I was a jeweller, when I started, I was a goldsmith in a previous life. And we used to make everything by hand and it was all custom jewellery, etcetera, back before China and the mass production and huge factories and economies of scale really blew the industry to pieces. For a long time you were actually in that hanging on to one of those and not transitioning into the mass production side of it because I didn't want to, but not being able to represent the value that actually what you were producing: the customisation, the personalisation, the handmade, and people wouldn't understand that.

You end up chopping your own prices down and down and down to the point where it no longer became a viable business. And that was the state of the industry and so on and so forth. But people could not see the difference between this silver ring and that silver ring. That one's a customised, handmade, personalised piece that took X amount of hours to produce. And this is something they got spit out of a production line at a team and other people are wearing. But people can't see the value difference.

Dr John: Yeah, you have to, you're responsible for bringing it to their awareness. If you've been to a sushi restaurant, they have this egg that's in layers. I noticed that to get some nigiri with an egg on it with a little seaweed wrapped around it, it was like $4 per piece. And the other sushi was like $2 at the time. I thought, just an egg. Why would it be that much? And then I thought, and then I watched him prepare one, and how many hours it took to prepare one of those slabs of egg because he had to do it in layers. We had to loony take a pan, take an egg, poured in the egg, cook it just a certain level. And then lay that, scramble it, laid on top layer to time while it's hot, and layer by layer by layer by layer and cut it and everything else to make that thing. And I realised that is an individual egg-layered piece of egg. And I realised after seeing him I go, ‘That's a $10 egg.’

Lisa: This is cheap.

Dr John: I was thinking, ‘How the heck does he do that for four bucks? How did he make any profit out of it?’ I never questioned it after that. Because I could see there's a distinction made.

Lisa: Yeah. And it's the same thing with the coaching I do, with running coaching, or whatever. ‘But then so-and-so’s program is X amount of dollars cheaper.’ And it's like, ‘Yes, but have they done what I've done? Do they have the systems that we have? Do they have that— you're comparing a Rolls Royce with a Volkswagen to use your analogy.’ But you know, it's hard not to come across as being arrogant when you say that. But you mean it like—

Dr John: Just don’t be defensive. If you get defensive, you can come across as arrogant. You get informative; there's no arrogance.

Lisa: Explain the process and say—

Dr John: You care about them to make sure they get— make the wisest decision. And that means inform them of the differences.

Lisa: And then, they’re accepting with our ads—

Dr John: You’re not attached to it. You’re not doing it to make a sale. We're doing it because you know it's gonna be to their advantage. When they see the integrity and sincerity of that, they'll probably—

Lisa: I think that's a really good key. I wanted to just flip that, and we've got to wrap it up, because I know it's time to go. But just, I'm really excited for some of the converging technologies that are coming our way. I wanted just your take in the two minutes that we've got left. You know, we've got AI, we've got robotics, we've got supercomputing, and quantum computing, and all of those, well, it's going to change the way that we live in the next 5-10 years. So change our health system, or finance system, crypto, there’s everything. Are you excited about the future, or are you fearful about the future? Where will you sit on this? Because a lot of people are feeling very unsafe and unsure about all this sort of stuff that's coming.

Dr John: Neither.

Lisa: Not too high, not too low, because— I should have predicted this.

Dr John: Ecologists that are optimists of the future are counterbalanced by the sceptical ecologists that dwell on the past. For every gullible optimist, there's always a sceptical pessimist to keep things in check. So I don't allow my stuff to get emotionally exuberant, because I know that that's just half of the equation and the other half is going to come anyway. I look for both sides and realise there are new technologies; there are new challenges.

We're seeing it right now. We've got a new COVID vaccine, right? There are people that are saving the day by. They think, ‘Oh, you're saving the day.’ You got another say that and you're trying to cause death in people. You got the optimists, pessimists on it. And the overly exuberant people that are manically elated about it, and the universe have to be brought back down into grounding to show the downsides. The downsides have to see the upside. And when you see both sides, you're stable. If I find myself elated or depressed, I ask new sets of questions to calm down the elation, to lift up their depression, and cent8re myself. So I can stand my objective and fulfil my mission.

Lisa: And you think that the truth always lies somewhere in between these two polarised views of the world?

Dr John: If you're blinded to the downsides, and you're elated and infatuated, you're not seeing what's there.

Lisa: So you're not actually looking at the science and what's actually there.

Dr John: You’re not looking at both sides. If you have both sides, and you can show both sides and you're prepared for it, you're stable, you're steady, you're objective, and you're prepared.

Lisa: So how do you get through there? That's the final point I want to talk about. Because you know, some of the change that's coming is going to be pretty radical. There's going to be complete industries that disappear. There's going to be new ways of doing business. And there's all these things. How do we stay flexible enough to be able to adapt? I see the older generation, and I look at my mum in here who cannot function in this world without a kid that can pay the bills and do the things because they cannot— they're not able to, she's not able to stay up with the technology.

Dr John: Well, she's able. She's choosing not to, strategically.

Lisa: Probably. You're damn right there. I'll tell her that. She's learned helpless. And that's because she—

Dr John: If you weren't there, she wouldn't just lay on the streets.

Lisa: She would, she will find someone else to do with a cushion. Smile sweetly. You're probably right there, to a degree, but it is getting—

Dr John: People can be very resourceful if somebody doesn't rescue them.

Lisa: If someone doesn't rescue them like I rescue my mum. But the rate of change, I think, is quite unsettling for a lot of people: the staying up with the technology, and the staying up with the changes that are happening.

Dr John: If somebody takes care of that, and they adapt, and they just take care of them. They have no need to. If they got nobody to take care of them, they will not allow themselves to get out, or they'll say, ‘I don't want to live any longer.’ They'll just pass on. But if you rescue them, and you don't have, they don’t have any accountability, they have no need. Over support make some juvenile dependent. Challenge makes them precocious independent, and it's a challenge to keep them alive.

Lisa: Oh, absolutely. I'm 100 on that; I'm all on board with it. I've just realised I probably had a blind spot in relation to technology because, ‘I just can't do that.’ Yet I don't need to get away with it in the gym or on the training like this, but I let her get away with it. Right.

Dr John: At one time, I thought I was going to be overwhelmed by using a cell phone.

Lisa: Yeah, and you've adapted.

Dr John: I've slowly adapted, and I know how to do the things I need to get done.

Lisa: Yeah. And you would take on more if you had to. You don't exactly have your old average brain doctor job.

Dr John: The thing is I delegate so much. If I don't want to do it, I just delegate. If I find no one to delegate to, I learn it.

Lisa: Yeah, I must try that on with my brother. He seems to, ‘I can't work that one out,’ he says. ‘You'll have to do it for me.’

Dr John: Well, my wife, who is from Melbourne, Australia. Remember Athena?

Lisa: Yes, yes. Yes.

Dr John: She was a very lovely, amazing woman. But I only saw her cook twice the whole time I was with her. One time she cooked in New York, and she broke a $400 pot, burned some food, and destroyed a plate. It cost me about $475 plus the food. That’s a $500—

Lisa: And you're hungry that night.

Dr John: And I said, ‘Honey, the time you spent going to the store, preparing anything else. This is insane. Let's just go to dinner. Go to a professional who knows what they're doing.’ She said, ‘Yeah, you're right.’ Then she did it one more time, she cooked. And then we burnt fish that we couldn't even get off the grill. I think we even damaged some store-bought bags of cabbage. But anyway, afterwards, I told her I begged her, ‘Please don't ever cook again.’ And she goes, ‘Okay.’ Now, she was strategic. Because she knew she cooked well if she had to.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So she had you wrapped around your finger like my mum has me wrapped around—

Dr John: We went to this restaurant and had fine dining.

Lisa: Nice. Nice, nice, nice.

Dr John: She knew that if she cooked well that she'd be trapped in a kitchen.

Lisa: Clever lady. I wonder if I could change the— It's hard once you've actually down that rabbit hole and they know that you can. Dr John Demartini, you've been wonderful. Thank you very much for the second visit on Pushing the Limits. It's been a wonderful hour to speak with you again and I really thank you for your work and your insights today.

Dr John: Thank you. Thanks for having me again.

Lisa: Fantastic.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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This was an interview with Lisa and Simon for the Nourish Life podcast.

From this podcast, Simon and Lisa talks Mental Toughness, Resilience & Overcoming any challenge. Lisa got a chance to share her incredible story about her mother and how to never giving up on someone when the odds are stacked against them.

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Strength training is often associated with professional athletes who need to condition their bodies. However, the general public could benefit from it as well. It’s not just people who want to bulk up who need strength training, either. Regardless of your age, sex, and occupation, strength training can have massive benefits for your wellness.

In this episode, Russel Jarrett joins us to share some insights from his 30 years of experience in the fitness industry. He talks about what makes an elite athlete and how talent is not the only determinant of success. We also dive deep into the benefits of strength training and optimising your fitness.

If you want to know how strength training can help you function better, then this episode is for you.

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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity, or want to take your performance to the next level and learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health, and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Know what propels an athlete towards an elite level. 2. Learn the various effects of strength training on our bodies.

  1. Discover the importance of hormones to our health.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to the Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #187: Back to Basics: Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + #188: How to Increase Your Self-Awareness and Achieve High Performance with Craig Harper * Connect with Russell: Website * The Australian Fitness Podcast * The Future is Faster Than You Think by Steven Kotler * Lifespan by Dr David Sinclair * Dr Elizabeth Yurth’s online course on longevity * Kultured Wellness * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness!

Episode Highlights [03:10] Russell’s Background * Russel went into athlete strength and conditioning because he didn’t want to teach.

  • He worked with various athletes in Australia for a long time while still working with the general population.

  • He has since branched out to several business enterprises related to health and fitness.

[06:03] What Makes a Good Athlete * Elite athletes have a strong belief in their abilities.

  • They stay confident and driven, regardless of their performance.

  • Some athletes are exceptionally talented and find a way to play at the highest level.

  • Even if you don’t have innate talent, you can improve. You just need the right combination of drive, dedication, and perseverance.

[11:22] Observations on Different Sports * Athletes adapt their mentality and physicality based on their sport. For instance, footballers have high pain tolerance, while golfers possess intense concentration.

  • Endurance athletes used to think that strength training would inhibit their ability to do well in their sports.
  • Now, they’re beginning to recognise the importance of incorporating the appropriate strength training for their sport.

  • Improvement of your form, minimisation of injury, and faster healing time are some benefits of strength training.

  • Our bodies are predisposed towards either endurance or strength training. The key is finding the balance between what you enjoy doing and what your body responds to.

[24:30] Strength Training for the General Public * Strength training helps to prevent accidents such as broken hips when our body starts to lose muscle mass.

  • Women tend to avoid strength training because they don’t want to bulk up.
  • However, the more muscle you can maintain in your body, the better it is for your hormones.

  • Strength training also improves your quality of life and overall lifespan.

  • If you want a body that works better and feels better, incorporate strength training into your exercise regimen.

[32:37] Optimising Your Hormones * You're not going to see results from exercise and diet alone. You also have to consider your hormones. * Your motivation also hinges on your hormones, so it’s crucial to optimise them first.

  • Strength training is a natural way to boost hormones, especially for women.
  • The story of Russell’s wife is a perfect example that training and nutrition are not the only things at play when it comes to our health.
  • During menopause, his wife suddenly felt unwell and gained weight. Then, she dropped 10 kilos in 10 weeks. Listen to the full episode to know how she did it!

[44:13] Bouncing Back From Life’s Setbacks * Training your body today can allow you to bounce back from health problems down the road. * Listen to the full episode to hear about Lisa's amazing neighbour in his 60s who rapidly recovered from his hip operation!

  • Russell had a client in her 40s who completely reinvented her body in three years.
  • Russel's client soon became fit enough to participate in a competition called The Big Red Run.

[46:45] Taking Tiny Steps Towards Change * You do not have to do everything today. Making small changes is better than overwhelming yourself.

  • Decide on a few things that you can commit to doing.
  • Once you implement those changes, you will feel yourself getting better and wanting to improve even more.

[52:35] Being Proactive About Your Health * Lisa's husband is genetically three times more likely to develop Alzheimer's due to genetics. However, they actively mitigate that risk.

  • Lisa shared a story about a man whose health was in decline at 65 but is now active again at age 75. Listen to the full episode for the details!

  • Russell advocates for self-medication through exercise, nutrition, sunlight, and being outdoors.

  • Do your due diligence—do your research and take charge of your health.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘[Athletes are] not invincible, but I think that anyone who gets to the elite level has a mental belief, a strong mental belief in their ability.’

‘Good athletes and people that are considered elite have an ability to persevere when others might give up.’

‘Strength training pretty much is important for everybody in some way, shape, or form.’

‘If you train well and if you train consistently through your 20s, 30s and 40s, then your 50s, 60s and 70s will be a whole lot easier.’

‘It's not a disease model that we should be following. It's a prevention model. It’s optimisation.’

‘You can't achieve anything in life, whether it's physical, or financial, or anything without dedication, discipline, and consistency.’

‘With your own health and what people are telling you to use or take or consume, you got to do your own due diligence.’

About Russell Russell has 30 years of experience in athlete preparation and training the general population. He has worked with the AFL, AIS, Cricket Australia, WNBL, and ABL. Today, he owns 24/7 fitness facilities and consults with clients from all over Australia.

He is also an educator and a speaker at different institutions. Furthermore, Russell built two registered training organisations and has coached hundreds of trainers over the years. He is a firm believer that physical performance improvement is for everybody.

If you want to reach out to Russell or know more about his work, you check out his website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they can understand the importance of strength training and optimising your fitness.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have Russell Jarrett with me. Now Russell is one of Australia's leading strength and conditioning coaches, owns a number of gyms with his lovely wife Tara, and has also worked with many elite teams from the AFL, from soccer, from golf, to tennis. He’s been around a while and done a lot of things. So you're going to really enjoy this conversation on strength and conditioning and how to optimise your fitness.

Before we go over to the show, just want to let you know that we have our BoostCamp live webinar series coming up on the first of September, it starts. It’s eight weeks long, we're going to be doing a live seminar every week. You're going to be we're going to be learning everything around levelling up your life, basically. So how to age like a winner, how to reduce your stress, how to deal with all the things that are coming at us, and are overwhelmed today's society. We're going to teach you how to tap into your biology through your neurology. So we're going to be looking at how to optimise your sleep, health fundamentals, nutrition, exercise, all those sorts of good things, as well as things like circadian rhythms.

It's going to be a really good life program, basically. So we hope you can join us over there. If you want to find out more, go to peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp, that's boost with an -st. No, it's not boot camp, it's BoostCamp. We won't be making you do burpees during the webinar, I promise. So make sure you come and join us over there: peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp.

We also have our flagship program running, as usual, our epigenetics. This is all about understanding what your genes are about and how to optimise your life to your specific genes. Now we use it with lots of our runners. We also use it in the corporate sector for teams and leadership teams and building strong companies. We also use it for people who are going through different health crises and wanting to optimise their health fundamentals to help them through. So if you're interested in finding out about that, just go to peakwellness.co.nz. Okay, now over to the show, with Russell Jarrett.

Lisa: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today, I have Russell Jarrett with me. Welcome to the show, Russell. Fantastic to have you!

Russell Jarrett: Thanks, Lis. Good to be here.

Lisa: We have a mutual friend who's put us in contact, and we're very, very grateful. We're going to be sharing some good stuff around health, fitness, health optimisation, strength, and conditioning. That's your jam. Now you, Russell, can you give people a bit of background? You've got a hell of a lot of experience in working both with elite athlete teams and different sports, as well as, the general population through your gyms, and your studios, and so on. Can you just give us a bit of a synopsis on your career, if you like?

Russell: Yeah, sure. So it stretches back some 30 years now. I started like many other coaches do. You know, working on the gym floor and understanding what that environment looked like and felt like. Once I finished my physio degree, I decided I didn't necessarily want to teach. I moved into athlete strength and conditioning. That was an area which seemed to really raise my interest. I got involved in that. But back in those days, it was very much a part-time role and a part-time world. There wasn't really professional sporting teams as yet. So I had to then supplement with work in the fitness industry, and with general population.

I've always had one foot in either world, and I've worked with elite athletes in various sports in Australia for a long time. But I've also had my own business enterprises and studios or RTOs, and things like that, that I've used to provide myself with a stable career. Because one thing I have learned in the strength and conditioning world is that it's a great environment to work in. It's exciting. It's high pressure. It's always different. It's challenging. But it's unstable, and it can be volatile. Because as they say it's a results-based industry. So if the results aren't coming, for whatever reason, and that may or may not have something to do with what you do, it might not. But nonetheless, if there's a change in personnel, quite often you're part of that change.

Lisa: That's so true. You know that that's what I love. You have to be flexible, adaptable, and being able to sort of go with the flow. When you're an entrepreneur, I mean, on this, similar sort of world, different but similar. You have to make that happen, basically, if you want things, if you want to keep in business, and you have to be good at your job, otherwise, yeah, people aren't going to come back.

I want to go a little bit into your experience with working with elite athletes for starters. Because I think it interests, a lot of my— so my listeners are endurance athletes, not everyone. Everyone’s a lot of average, sort of people interested in health optimisation and being the best that they can be. My background is as an ultra-endurance athlete.

What is it that you think sets a good athlete up from a mindset point of view? Before we get into the strength and conditioning side of the equation, which is hugely important, but do you think that there's—

like having worked with general population and lots of elite athletes, what is that some of the key differences that you see between the two groups, if you like?

Russell: Yeah, look, I think when people start to figure out that they have a talent, or a gift, or an ability that is above and beyond what is considered normal, I think along with that comes a strengthening in their self-belief and their understanding of what they can do. That takes time. But there are still athletes that will, by their own admission, will struggle with their own self-belief and their own levels of doubt, and so forth. They're not invincible but I think that anyone who gets to the elite level has a mental belief, a strong mental belief in their ability. They know what they can do. They know what they're good at. They're obviously passionate about it.

Then I think for the elite athletes, it's just an ongoing evolution of that ability to stay focused, stay driven, stay hungry, and stay confident when perhaps their performances are suggesting otherwise. I think that's, good athletes and people that are considered elite have an ability to persevere when others might give up. I think that's probably one of the things I noticed the most.

Lisa: Perseverance. Do you think there's a difference between— is the most important thing talent? Or is the most important thing, a never quit attitude and I'm gonna keep fighting a fighting sort of attitude? What do you think's more important?

Russell: I think there's a combination there. I think it's different for every person. I think there's definitely athletes that are extremely exceptionally talented: Michael Jordan, NBA, Tiger Woods in golf, Michael Schumacher in F1. These kinds of people are supremely talented. They're just playing on another level. I think for those people, they probably don't suffer the same levels of doubt or stress than others might.

Now, on the same environment, you've got people who are not that talented. So there were people that that played in the same team as Michael Jordan, right? So there was a guy from Australia called Luc Longley, who was one of the pioneers of Australians into the NBA. Luc Longley was a seven-foot centre, who played a couple of seasons with the Chicago Bulls. Now Luc Longley, and he'll tell you this, was in no way shape or form as talented as Michael Jordan. But he still managed to play in the same team, at the same level, and win championships alongside Michael Jordan.

Now, it's not talent that got Luc there. So it's got to be something else. Obviously, he had some talent. But he obviously had incredible desire, hunger, dedication, perseverance. He had some ingredients that he combined with his talent to allow him to play at the highest level. So I think it's different for every athlete. Some athletes do their thing because they're in extremely talented environments. They're just freaks at what they do. Then there's other people that you look at in all sorts of sports, and they don't—

Lisa: —work your ass off.

Russell: Yeah, they don't look that athletic. They don't look amazing. They don't do extraordinary things, but they just keep going and they hang in there. They find a way to play at the highest level. It's quite extraordinary.

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, that's certainly my background, I absolutely had no talent as a runner. Absolutely none. Just for sheer bloody-mindedness got sort of pretty good at it. I think, that's why, for me to ask the question because for me, talent is, if you've got it, then you're bloody lucky. But even if you haven't, if you're one of those people listening that goes, ‘You know, I haven't got any genetic abilities and talents and stuff, but I really want to do it.’ Well, don't give up on your dream.

I remember going to Millennium Stadium in Auckland with the Auckland University doing VO2 max testing and all that sort of stuff. They said to me afterwards, like, ‘If you're a young athlete coming to see whether you'll be good at endurance sports, we’d tell you, don't give up your day job. You're actually below average, below average.’ Small lung capacity, very low VO2 max. I said, ‘Well, lucky, nobody told me that back then. Because then I wouldn't have gone on to do the stuff that I did.’ That's the point now that just because you don't have the talent doesn't mean you can't. You might have to work your way around things, you might have to work twice as hard as the guy next to you. You have to be prepared for that battle. But I think you can.

Okay, so you've worked in the AFL, cricket. What other sort of sports have you worked with? And what do you see as differences between the sport arts as well? Any sort of insights?

Russell: Yeah. I've spent some time in the AFL, with Cricket Australia, I've worked with netballers, basketballers, tennis, and golf. Look, physically, all of those athletes differ because they adapt according to what their sport requires of them. So footballers have exceptionally high levels of fitness capacity, strength, endurance, agility, power. They're very well-developed and well-rounded athletes. Then you've got golfers who essentially are not always very athletic, although the sport is getting better. But they have incredible levels of coordination, incredible levels of concentration, incredible levels of focus. Because that's what their sport requires. So I've been lucky to work in different sports.

Yeah, you're right. I always see these little nuances between different sports and what they bring to the table. Footballers, generally have really high levels of pain tolerance, because to play at that level, it's quite uncomfortable. Whereas golfers have incredible levels of concentration and mental resilience. Because you can stand over a putt, which might be four feet long, but that one shot over four feet might be worth a million dollars.

Lisa: Wow. Yeah.

Russell: So you better make sure that you've got incredible focus, and that your internal dialogue is very calm and very measured. Because if you're standing over that putt worth a million dollars, and you're like, ‘I don't know, if I can do this,’ and your heart rate is pounding, you're not in a good position to make that putt.

Lisa: Wow. That's a good insight.

Russell: Yeah, isn't it?

Lisa: It is because, I've often looked at golf and thought, ‘Why the hell are they so high pay when you've got some triathlete, or Tour de France winner, it gets, a pittance in comparison.’ And you're thinking, the training and the dedication and these dangers and all of that. You think that. So it's interesting to see that there is a different lot of things at play and it's the brain. I mean, I watched Docker last night, I love neuroscience. There was a great one just on Netflix, actually, and it was looking at how the neurons in the nervous system work. It was looking at a boxer and all the stuff that's going on in the brain. It was like, wow, there is different types of coordination, fitness, reaction, emotional control, all of these things play into this game that we are, whatever sport you're into, and into life in general and staying healthy.

One of the things that I found interesting, they were talking about ultramarathon runners having the blood sugar levels of a diabetic and I was just like, ‘Really? Is that why—?’ Because I've been monitoring my blood sugar levels over the last couple of years, and I'm going, ‘What the hell! They're extremely high at times.’ I'll be doing like an interval training session and fast, evening hours and I was up at nine and a half and I'm like, ‘Oh, my God, I'm diabetic.’

I'm now like, listening to that yesterday, now I'm like, ‘Ah, ultramarathoners trained their body to respond with huge amounts of blood sugars, and they're very insulin sensitive.’ So actually, the opposite is actually happening. But if you just took that at face value, you just took that 9.5 measurements on blood glucose, you'd think, ‘Oh, my god, she's got diabetes.’ So it's a really interesting world. Or when you're recruiting, you're doing a big, heavy weight, the neurons as what you're training, not just the muscle fibers, isn't it?

Russell: Yeah. In fact, with a lot of strength training, and that's what people find, especially people who are new to strength training, they actually develop new levels of strength quite quickly. If you take a beginner, and they've never done weight training before, strength training before, you can actually get them quite strong within two to three weeks. They'll notice a difference in two to three weeks. Now, that's not a physiological adaptation in the muscular system. That is a physiological adaptation in the nervous system. So their nervous system adapts and changes much more rapidly. So that's why you see that rapid increase in strength.

Lisa: At the start.

Russell: At the start. That's right. Then after a couple of weeks, the muscular system also changes and starts to catch up.

Lisa: Wow. Is that also why you have a little bit of a plateau after your initial gains? And you're like, ‘Ah, this is great, I'm gonna keep improving,’ and then you don’t.

Russell: Exactly. So the nervous system changes rapidly. Then the adaptation to the stimulus of that starts to slow, and then you get more physiological adaptation in the muscular system. So, over time, the process of getting stronger is a combination of those two systems constantly being stimulated and constantly adapting to the changing stimulus.

Lisa: Wow. What sort of changes Is this making our body like from a health and well being and in longevity and anti-aging sort of stuff? I'm heavily into actually, resistance work, weight training, it doesn't have to be heavy, heavy stuff. But you have to be doing weight training as far as I'm concerned. So I'm coming from an endurance athlete background, that's not, that wasn't, certainly wasn't the conversation until our company, we're very big on the strength, we're big on the mobility, we're big on the not overdoing the running, not doing the high mileage models and ignoring the strengths, which is, the world that I sort of grew up in, when I was, learning as a young athlete, ultramarathon running.

There wasn't a guidance for starters. I remember ignoring strength and conditioning completely, and the strength side of it. Now realising, that's actually the base gains, the biggest weight changes, like isn't weight loss, the biggest metabolic changes, the biggest form changes for runners, strength trainers, the stability, the lack of injuries, like all of these things are just huge parts of that puzzle, even for endurance athletes.

Russell: Yeah, you're absolutely right. Going back maybe a couple of decades, strength training and endurance athletes, they didn't really talk to each other. It really wasn't part of the picture.

Lisa: Yeah. Detrimental to don't do weights if you're a runner.

Russell: You're absolutely right, there was a segment of the endurance world that believe that if you're lifting weights, that you could damage or inhibit your ability to run or do endurance sports. We know better than that now. We know that it is absolutely possible and actually recommended to combine endurance training with the appropriate level and type of strength training to benefit endurance athletes, no doubt.

Lisa: Yeah, it's a great insight.

Russell: When endurance runners, runners or cyclists or triathletes, when they get stronger, provided it's done in the correct fashion, as you say, it actually has benefits to their running technique, to their running form, to the minimisation of injury, to their ability to recover. Everything improves when you're stronger.

Lisa: Yeah. And anabolic as opposed to the catabolic nature of our sport, which is tearing stuff down all the time instead of rebuilding. We need— on that point as well, the whole ‘I'm going to bulk up’ mentality, it takes quite a lot to actually bulk up and there’s different types of strength training to reach different types of goals. And the other aspect I wanted to ask you about like I do genetic testing and epigenetics, and understand the different sort of genetic combinations. If I put someone who is strength-based by genetics, and I put them into super long-distance endurance training, I'm going to be mismatching their genetics.

How that worked out for me in my life was I did ultramarathon running when my genetics are actually built around high-intensity sort of medium weights in shorter episodes, or shorter duration is actually what my genetics want. I decided to do ultramarathoning because I decided to do it. But I didn't know that, actually, from my genetics, it's actually really important to be doing some weight training. It's actually important that I don't overtrain as in the long distance.

Now, my active career time is over. So I've gone now for longevity and things that are more important to me now. I've found that I'm a lot healthier, a lot fitter. My hormones are in better balance because I'm doing what's in line with my personal genetics. It doesn't mean I can't even run an ultramarathon again. I can. But I shouldn't be doing them back to back if I want to live a long time and not break myself.

Do you see that? I mean, you were— without going deep into the embryology and epigenetic side of it, but you got your ectomorphs, your mesomorphs, and your endomorphs as a broad categories. The endomorph population really, really benefit from strength training. Like it's really important. It's counterintuitive, especially for females and the population, because they think they’re already bigger, stronger people. And they think that when they go to do weight training, that's going to make them like really massively bulky. What would you say to that? Have you come across that experience at all? Look, I'm in the weeds here. But—

Russell: No, you’re right. Certainly, people are more predisposed to certain activities, which is essentially what we're saying. So I'm an ectomorph. But my body shape and my body composition is more ectomorphic. I'm quite slight, narrow shoulder. I don't weigh much. But I do still strength train. But what we're saying here is that because I'm not sort of genetically gifted or predisposed towards strength training, it also means that I'm what we call a slow gainer or a non-responder. For me to put muscle on my body, for me to get stronger, I've got to do a lot of hard work and I've got to eat a lot of food. Because it's really hard. My body does not want to get bigger. But if I put a pair of shoes on a winter run, my body is very happy. So you're absolutely right.

Now, with females, yes, there are people that are going to respond better to endurance work, and respond better to strength work. But I guess what it comes down to is, how do you then combine that predisposition to what it is that your goals are, to what it is that you enjoy doing, and to what it is that your body responds to? That's the I mean, if I had the answer to that Lisa—

Lisa: That’s your secret sauce.

Russell: Yeah. If I had the answer to that, Lisa, I’ll be making a fortune.

Lisa: Well, that's right. That's why I study epigenetics. It’s really key or we work with different platforms but then technologies and stuff. But what I get out of it is that gives me the black and white information and then as a coach, then I can help you piece together the right combination. So if I've got someone who's like me or is more suited to shorter, high-intensity CrossFit style workouts for the one a bit of description, and they want to do ultramarathons, then I’ll tailor their programs or our company will tailor the programs to fit that so that they can still do their goals but without wrecking their body. And that will be a lower mileage program than what it would be for you if I was training you who is an ectomorph, who can take more of the distance.

I think what's also important to understand is that strength training pretty much is important for everybody in some way, shape, or form. Especially as we get older and like when we hit our 40s and we start losing muscle mass naturally like that's what happens. This is where I see lots of runners especially our you know becoming like beef jerky, for lack of a better description, sarcopenic, losing muscle mass, then losing bone mass, and they may be cardiovascularly fit. They're not going to die of diabetes and being overweight, but where they run into troubles is with stress fractures and osteoporosis and lack of muscle. And that can kill you just as quickly as well.

I mean, a lot of people die of osteoporosis and breaking hips. You break a hip when you're above 60 and you're in trouble. That can lead to death. The stats for that is worse than it is for cardiovascular disease. That's just pretty scary when you start unraveling the whole bone. So it's really important for me to have people who aren’t just endurance junkies, if you like, understanding, especially once I've hit the 40 and above that they get into that weight training, that they get into some strength training of some sort, at least.

Russell: Yeah, with all my general population clients, if they are, if they are above the age of 50, I recommend to all of them strongly that some part, small to significant, but some parts of their weekly exercise routine has to include some form of relatively heavy strength training. Because if you want to look at one form of exercise that can improve your quality and length of life, it's strength training.

Lisa: We’re on the same page. Yeah, and that's, you know, me coming from an endurance background saying that. And this is super important for a woman to hear as well, because I think women have a natural tendency, ‘I don't want to get bulky. I don't want to get muscular.’ I can tell you now ladies, the more muscle you can maintain in your body, the better, the better your basal metabolic rate is, your human growth hormone. When you do strength training, you're going to up your levels of human growth hormone, which is going to help with your anti-aging, which is going to keep you younger, which is going to help with all of these different areas of cognitive, as well as physical, as well as sleep as well— every area of life is impacted. If you're doing heavy weight training, you go to sleep better, I’ll tell you that much.

It's not just cardio, cardio, cardio, I think is the message that I'm trying to get across here. That's very important. Everybody should be doing a certain amount of cardio. It's absolutely crucial that we sweat, that we get our heart rate up and we do all that stuff. But it's the combination. In every decade where you go through, you basically need a new approach, I'm saying. You know, the ratios. We all need cardio. We all need strength training. We all need mobility as the other part of that conversation, which is your Pilates, yoga, foam rolling, all that sort of good stuff. Then it's the ratios that become different as you age. Then how heavy are you lifting and what body type do you have.

If you're a big, strong endomorphic body type, I can put some heavier weights through your joints, that's going to be good for you. If you're an ectomorph, I'm going to put some lighter weights, but I'm still going to put weights for you.

Russell: I did a podcast with Craig Harper the other few weeks ago, you've been—

Lisa: A couple times. Yeah man, he’s awesome.

Russell: I said to Craig, ‘What I say to people all the time, “If you train well, if you train well, and if you train consistently through your 20s, 30s, and 40s, then your 50s, 60s, and 70s will be a whole lot easier.”’

Lisa: Hell yes. This is gold man. Because the older you get, the more you have to focus on this. And the more you have to train, not volume-wise, but the more you have to focus on this and get that combination right because it becomes more and more important, not less and less important. And what I see when the over 50s, and 60s, and 70-year-olds is that they go, ‘Oh, I'm older now I don't have to do as much.’ That's the opposite of what you should be doing. I'm older, therefore I can get away with less therefore I have to do more in the right context.

I have, you know, a story. People who listen to my podcast know about my mom's journey. And she had an aneurysm five years ago, and she is at the gym five days a week. This afternoon, we'll be at the gym. We'll be doing weight training, and cardiovascular work, and coordination work, and yoga. Those are all parts of her rehabilitation. Now it's relative to her age; she's 79 years old.

Unfortunately, I didn't know all this back in the day. So I missed the boat in her 40s, and 50s, and 60s. And we've started in her 70s and coming back from a massive rehabilitation project, like, five years in now. God, I wish I had known what I knew then now. Like what I knew, what I know now, I don't, didn't know then because she would be in so much better shape. So now, I have to work that much more strategically in order to keep her where she is and to keep her moving forward into her 80s, and 90s, and hopefully beyond that. It's doable.

Russell: Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. The understanding in the general population, in the general community, the understanding of our strength training is still poor. It's getting better because people like you and I are out there banging the drum saying, ‘Get strong. Lift heavy. Do your weights. You're not going to blow up. You're not going to give bulky. It's going to give you nothing other than a better, a better body that works better, moves better, feels better, functions better—’

Lisa: —and dies later.

Russell: Exactly. Well, yeah, I mean, we haven't, we probably haven't come up with the anti-aging drug. But I think weight training is pretty close.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.

Just interrupting the program briefly to let you know that we have a new patron program for the podcast. Now, if you enjoy Pushing the Limits, if you get great value out of it, we would love you to come and join our patron membership program. We've been doing this now for five and a half years, and we need your help to keep it on air. It's been a public service free for everybody. And we want to keep it that way. But to do that we need like-minded souls who are on this mission with us to help us out. So if you're interested in becoming a patron for Pushing the Limits podcast, then check out everything on patron.lisatamati.com. That's P-A-T-R-O-N dot lisatamati.com. We have two patron levels to choose from, you can do it for as little as $7 a month, New Zealand or $15 a month if you really want to support us. So we are grateful if you do. There are so many membership benefits you're going to get if you join us, everything from workbooks for all the podcasts, the strength guide for runners, the power to vote on future episodes, webinars that we’re going to be holding, all of my documentaries, and much much more. So check out all the details, patron.lisatamati.com, and thanks very much for joining us.

This year another aspect that I've been really deep in the weeds on lately is hormones. A study under Dr Elizabeth Yurth, and she's a longevity doctor and orthopedic surgeon in America, brilliant lady, love her to pieces. I just did one course with her and it was like what to fix first. She was like, ‘I'm not going to tell you to do the right diet or the right exercise program. The very first thing that I'm going to get you to do is optimise your hormones.’ Your hormones need to be— if you don't have testosterone and estrogen in the right levels in your body, and human growth hormone, and all the other hormones, and the right combination, and the right thing, then you are not going to be able to exercise.

She said, ‘If I tell someone who's severely overweight in their 60s who hasn't trained before just to go to the gym and start working out and their hormones are in the gutter, they're not going to be able to. They don't have the motivation. Because hormones are related to motivation. They don't have the ability. They don't have the energy, all of these aspects.’ So optimising our hormones is a really important piece of a puzzle. I think this is a new conversation that’s starting to open up. This is not about whether you know, like, we're not talking about, you know, illegal anabolic what bodybuilders or whatever have traditionally done.

This is about optimising your hormones as you age and we start to lose, drop our testosterone, you guys especially in the late 40s, 50s start to really notice a big drop. If we can actually optimise that. That leads you know— like I do hormone consults and stuff. This needs to be done under doctors or people that are specialised in this. But if you can get that right, then you're going to have the energy to go and do the right exercise and you'll be more likely to eat right as well. Because you won't be having this downward spiral because if you get your hormones wrong and you start to feel lethargic, you start to have less energy, less cognitive ability, and, and, and, and, and.

For me I'm actually like, ‘Right, how do we optimise people’s—?’ Or, ‘Let's have some conversations around this.’ Because to date, it's either been, okay woman, maybe hormone replacement therapy. Okay, if they're going through menopause or something like that. For guys, it's only the bodybuilders who have been getting testosterone.

I'll tell you now, men, if they get their testosterone levels checked, and if you can work with a good doctor, and that's a big if, trying to find the right one to work with. And get them optimised for your age and for where you're at so that you're actually— because then you will age a lot slower. But it needs to be done carefully because you go the wrong way and you can end up with cancer. So you need to understand your innate pathways and all that.

Without getting into that conversation, but just getting into the fact that hormones are absolutely crucial. And we can do things to boost our testosterone naturally: weight training. And women, you need testosterone as well. That's where your estrogens come from, for starters. They come from progesterone, to testosterone, to estrogens. And men when you do, so the more weight training you do, and the more, you'll have more human growth hormone and more testosterone available to you. And doing things like sauna and things also huge, huge. Like you do three days of sauna, you're going to have a 1600%, I think it is, increase in human growth hormone for the next couple of days.

Russell: You're absolutely spot on. About two years ago— my wife is 51.

Lisa: Wow. She doesn't look it.

Russell: Has always been really good with her diet, really good with her training, always strength trained, always been a strong lady, and fit. About two years ago, started to feel unwell, started to be, kind of a little unmotivated with regards to exercise. But she still kept fighting through it. And she goes, ‘I'm just going through a flat phase.’ Anyway, long story short, started putting on a little bit of weight, which was unusual because her diet was very good, her training was very good. In 12 weeks, she put on 12 kilos without explanation.

Lisa: It’s menopause.

Russell: Exactly. So got hit fair and square between the eyes by the menopause bus. But she went to three different doctors, and none of them were prepared to explain, or assist, or advise, or refer. They all said to her, ‘You know what, for your age, you're in pretty good shape. I wouldn't worry about it too much.’

Lisa: Ah, this makes me so—

Russell: Then one guy, one doctor looked at her and said, ‘Oh, you're an attractive lady. What are you worried about?’

Lisa: It's not about attractive lady. It's about optimisation. When will the doctors start to understand that it's not about the disease? It's not a disease model that we should be following. It's a prevention model. It's optimisation. That’s the change that's going to happen. I can see it coming. Keep going.

Russell: She finally, we made some phone calls to some friends. We did some research. She stumbled across an anti-aging doctor in Melbourne who was in his mid-90s and was still practising.

Lisa: That says something about him already.

Russell: Right. And he sat with her for, I guess, an hour and a half. And he explained to her what he did and how long he’d been doing it. And he said, ‘No one will tell you this.’ He goes, ‘No regular doctor refers to me or believes in what I do.’ He then met her for sort of an extended consult in which she did three blood tests over the space of six hours. He then managed her hormone profiles and prescribed her some medication and some testosterone. She lost, without changing her diet, without changing her exercise, she dropped 10 kilos in 10 weeks.

Lisa: Yup. That’s an extremely important story. Russell, I hope the hell that she's sharing that out in the world because I have to get her on and share that in depth.

Russell: There's a lot more to that story. That's the brief version.

Lisa: I want the full version. You should get your wife on my show.

Russell: Lisa, it really upset me and it really made me frustrated, as I'm sure you've been through the same process. I've heard your story about your mum. It just made me really upset that our medical profession is so— not all. I don't wanna generalise, but a large percentage of conventional doctors are so far behind. They’re so far behind.

Lisa: They’re so far behind, and this is changing. I mean I'm reading a book at the moment called The Future is Faster than You Think by Steve Kotler. Unbelievable what's going to happen in the healthcare space. The data that's coming, the AI and all this sort of stuff, it's exciting because it's putting the power back into our hands because we'll be able to have the diagnostic tools. At the moment, I'm frustrated and frightened too because this stuff I know about I want to get from my mum or for myself and I can't get them, peptides and all this sort of crazy awesome stuff. I'm a biohacker, I experimenting the hell out of myself.

I’ve just been, I'm going through menopause. I'm 52, I've gone through menopause. I started on a product called NMN which I’m now importing to New Zealand and I work with a molecular biologist in this area. And this is an anti-aging longevity supplement that Dr David Sinclair, who wrote the book Lifespan, you have to read that book if you haven't. So I've been on that now for seven months— eight months. I've reversed my own menopause. I was already aware. I'm already on TTA. I'm on progesterone. I'm on estrogen. I already am optimising. I understand my genetic risk factors so I'm on all over that because I don't just do this willy-nilly. People, if you want a hormone consult, I can do that. That's what I do now.

I'm the leanest, fittest, I'm not fit in the ultramarathon sense, I couldn't go out and run a 200k race like I used to be able to. But I wasn't fit then. I was fit in that one thing, but I wasn't— I didn't feel athletic. I was overweight. I was puffy. I was hormonal. I was up the walls. My body was in overtraining. Now at 52, I'm leaner than I've ever been, I'm stronger than I've ever been, and I've got more energy than I used to have.

When I went, you know, the last few years have been pretty rough. I've had a rough life, with mum, losing my dad, and losing my baby, and spit some shit towards their way. And still, you know, like, okay, I've been through the wringer and I've had a few things along the way. But this is why it's so important. Because you're going to get that from life. It's gonna come, sooner or later, you're going to get smashed in the face. The more stronger you can make your body so that it bounces back if you have an injury, or sickness or a virus or whatever, the better.

I mean, I've just been through shingles the last four weeks, which has been bloody awful. But now I'm back, and I'm training, and I'm back into life, and I'm optimising. That’s not surprising because the stress levels that I've been through and exposed to are the reasons why my body was hammered. So you can't always avoid these things. These things are still going to happen to you. But if you're strong and resilient, and you've got the right nutrients, and you've got the right training, you will bounce back 100 times faster.

I've got a mate up here who is 60, I think he's 65 years old, and he's a kitesurfer. Legend of a bloke. He’s been a waterman. And he’s just had a hip operation. Within two days he was out walking. Within three hours of the operation, he was up. And I see him all day, every day. Now he's on the bike. Now he's down there watching the waves. He can't get out there yet, but he's walking every day. Like, that guy's gonna come back and bounce back like nothing because he is fit and he's just raring to go.

That attitude, it doesn't matter that he's 65. He's a kickass athlete. You want to watch them kite surfing, I’m in awe of him. He's out there for three, four hours and the biggest scariest, like stuff I would never touch. I don't know where to start. This guy’s just killing it or up our mountain skiing. You don't have to accept that, ‘Oh you're now 50. So it's time for you to settle down and get a bit more sedentary. And you probably put on some weight, and you're— that’s just life.’ No it isn’t!

Russell: No, that's right. You're absolutely right. I've got it reminds me of one more little story. I had a lady who sat with me in my office about six years ago. I'll paint you the picture. Early 40s, quite overweight, very unathletic, very inexperienced with exercise, very intimidated by the gym, poor nutrition. Like the classic sedentary person. Anyway, we started talking and I managed to convince her to just gently start something. I made some adjustments with regard to her diet because it was horrendous. She started eating better, drinking less sugary drinks, eating more fruit and vegetables, meats, eating less processed food, started training, then started feeling better, losing weight, started getting more excited by the process. Three years later, she competed in an event in Central Australia called The Big Red Run.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. I’ve done that.

Russell: Yeah. Well, there you go. She covered, what was it, 160 something kilometres in four days.

Lisa: Amazing.

Russell: Just, this was a woman, when she sat with me, she couldn't run. She wouldn't be able to run more than 500 meters without stopping. In three years, she did the Big Red Run. In one day, she had to cover nearly 80 kilometres.

Lisa: Yeah, that one kicked my ass. I ended up with a back injury and didn't make it. So I know how hard that one is. Like rain, it’s hot—

Russell: It’s amazing. She literally reinvented her body in three years.

Lisa: In her 40s. Not 20s.

Russell: Yeah. In her 40s, yeah.

Lisa: That is just gold. What an incredible story. And even for me, you don’t have to— I had a lady on the podcast a couple days ago: Cindy O'Meara, nutritionist. She was teaching me stuff about numbers, and preservatives, and shit. And I'm like, ‘Oh, my God, you know. And that's even like a—’ But I didn't have any idea of that level of information and how they feed them on plastic bacteria and put it in our food. I'm like, ‘Wow, this is just horrific.’ But she said to me, ‘You don't have to go out and do everything today.’ Just decide, ‘This week, okay, I'm going to eat a little bit more organic. This week, I'm going to go and switch out for my, you know, something organic, better chocolate.’ If that's what you're into, and you want to eat chocolate, then you don't want to be having the cheap and nasty. Go and find a good one.

You know, so it's just, in other words, taking tiny steps and every day that we make those little wee changes and those little wee steps, don't overwhelm yourself, because then you'll chuck it in. You don't have to be perfect. It doesn't mean you can never ever have an ice cream again. It doesn't mean that. It just means that you're making these incremental changes in your life, and slowly you start to get better. We're all on this continuum of change. And I’d bet you don't need 100% perfect to train, 100% perfect. I have days when I have a ‘F-it day’ and you know stuff. Because I've had a bad day and I know I've done it. And then I'm like, ‘Okay, well, you know that this happened. We'll get back on the bandwagon.’

Russell: Yeah, yeah, look, you're absolutely right. We're not saying to people that you need to eat like a monk and run marathons like David Goggins, not saying that. We're just saying, as you rightly pointed out, just small adjustments over time, identifying, okay, if you're unfit, if you're not eating well, what are two or three things that you could change today that would not feel like we're making your life incredibly uncomfortable? What are just three things that you could change?

Eventually, you change them. You realise that it wasn't that hard. You realise that you feel better for it. So then you start looking for what else can I do? What else can I change? You know, what else can I optimise? Then over the process of three years, this lady completely changed and completely optimised to the point where you would consider her somewhat of an elite athlete.

Lisa: Wow, this legend.

Russell: Yes. It's a great story. But it just shows you, with dedication, with discipline, consistency, all those words, that they're not necessarily easy or pleasant, but they're irreplaceable, and they're critical.

Lisa: Yeah. And education.

Russell: Yeah. You can't achieve anything in life, whether it's physical or financial, or anything without dedication, discipline, and consistency.

Lisa: Yeah. And don’t over— then the big piece of the puzzle is don't overwhelm yourself. Just take it one step at a time. I'm studying cryptocurrencies at the moment because I can see the writing on the wall. This is what's coming at us is a complete new system, right? And I’m like at the moment, in that phase of like, ‘I don't get any of this.’ Like, you must have been talking Latin to me. But I know if I keep reading, if I keep listening, if I keep on, I will start to pick up the terminology. I will start to understand that I know the process of learning.

I know that's how I learn languages. That's how I learn medical stuff. That's how everything I don't understand at the beginning. I don't worry about the confusion. I just let it wash over me. And then my brain starts to create these patterns of recognition. Then I start to get, ‘Hey, I understood what that person says,’ and ‘Oh, I’m a little bit clever.’ Then you're away and you're off to the races. Because then you start to become curious, then you start to become passionate. Then you're like, well, then it's up to you. Like how far you take that one. And that's how you do it. You don't go, ‘I'm going to sit down here and I'm going to study cryptocurrency for five hours today because that's what I'm studying.’ That will blow your mind, you know? But if you just take that little bit.

Russell: Absolutely. Lisa and I think as I age, I'm 53. As I age—

Lisa: Same as me.

Russell: Yeah. I'm trying to become more aware of where are my weaknesses, and I don't mean physical. Because my physical— because I've been exercising for 30 years. Physically, I'm in good shape. My blood pressure is fine. My body composition is good. My strength is good. It's all fine. I'm trying to keep my mind strong. Because my, I guess my internal fear is, at what stage in my life will I cognitively start to decline? I know it's probably going to happen. But I'm trying to keep my mind strong.

Lisa: You don't need to, it doesn't need to. This is my area, man. Yeah, we’ll have the talk offline. Yeah, there are lots of things. Like having brought my mum back from a massive brain damage, like she had hardly any higher function, I do understand what it takes to keep the brain going. You'd be doing a lot— I don't— because you've got a good diet and all that sort of thing, and you're exercising, those are two massive factors for brain function, you're much less likely to get Alzheimer's and so on. And with a bit of sauna and things like that, then you can lower the risk. And then you understand what your genetics and your predispositions, and then you can understand what to do to mitigate it, then you hop and things like that, like the hyperbaric which is the corner of my room, that type of thing, that will keep your brain function going.

We don't— I don't, I don't see Alzheimer's or any of those things. Because I have so many things in my war chest, if you like, with my tools that I can pull out. For example, my husband has a genetic, three times risk of the normal for developing Alzheimer's. So I bought him a sauna. I chuck his back into the hyperbaric. I watch it. I make sure he's getting good fats in his diet. I try to keep the beers down. That's the biggest struggle I've got with that one. He's training, and he's running 100 miles, and he's doing all these good things. So I don't see it even though he has a three times risk, genetically speaking. I can control that risk by a large degree, by the diet, by the exercise by the right interventions. So we're not passive.

When people— I just had another interview with another fellow Australian this morning, Kirsty from Kultured Wellness, lovely lady. And she had a dad that she talked about. He was 65, starting to cognitive decline. She changed his diet to keto, she started getting more exercise, doing all that sort of stuff. Now he's 75 and he's back teaching. And then he's fully functioning again. You don’t need— you can't just go to the doctor and they'll give you a magic anti-Alzheimer's pill. There's nothing there yet. They are working on stuff. They've got some things that can slow things down. But don't rely on that. Bet on the lifestyle, and intervention, and this training, and the diet, and all of those sorts of things that you can control and you might not even develop it.

Russell: Yeah, well my goal is with my training, exercise and nutrition, is to self-manage my health. Because I just feel that if I can avoid interaction, If I can avoid the need to be a part of the medical system, then I'm okay.

Lisa: I'm desperate to be apart, away from.

Russell: I don't want to have to rely on a doctor, or a hospital, or a treatment, or a drug. I don't want to. I want to self-medicate through exercise, nutrition, reading, learning, being outdoors, sunlight, all of this stuff. I want to self-medicate for as long as I can.

Lisa: That's the one. That's the one. If we have an accident we’ll be very glad for their brilliant abilities, plastic surgeries. Not saying that they're brilliant, absolutely brilliant. What we're falling down is in the chronic disease management.

Russell: Yeah, but I also feel, Lis, that it's my responsibility to manage my own health. I don’t— It's not up to the doctors and the nurses. I want them to be looking after truly sick people who are injured, or unwell, or have cancer, or— I don't want to give them like, ‘Don't look after me. I'll do it myself.’ If one day, I fall over and break a leg or do something stupid, then I'll need your help. But until then, I'm happy for them to look after people that really need them. And I'll look after me.

Lisa: Yeah. And this is, even from a macro perspective, we’ll wind it up in a second, but I’m loving this, but the social, you know, from an economic point of view, if they understood that if they were educating people, then there would be less load on the health system. I mean what's coming at the health system, as far as diabetes, when you look at our teenagers and our children who are already obese, who are already pre-diabetic in some cases, who have all sorts of hormonal issues, and what's coming 20 years down the line when they reach their 40s and 50s. Oh, Crikey, we're in for a hard ride, then. From an economic, macro-economic standpoint.

Even in the slight, you know, the latest COVID situation, started again, but why is there not a bigger conversation around boosting your immune system so that if you do happen to get it, that you're at least able to cope? Because people with comorbidities that are least likely to come out the other side, or to come out with some serious— not always, it’s a part of it's a genetic thing. But also, let's be proactive again. Let's take your vitamin D on full load. Let's look at the, you know, magnesium and vitamin C's at the school. It's a simple, easy things that we can do to boost our immunity, it's lower stress levels, it's try and do all of it. Then we might, if we are unlucky enough to get hit with it, maybe we'll be able to come out the other side without, you know, dying or having some long-term consequences. Hopefully. Where is that conversation?

Russell: Well, sadly, Lis, we're not having that conversation. The simple reason for that, and I don't want to sound sceptical, but it possibly may, there's no money in healthy people. But there's a lot of money, there's a lot of money to be made, when your population is unwell and sick. And unfortunately, we're fighting big, big organisations that make a lot of money when people are unwell.

Lisa: Yeah, that's just the truth. When you're on a, even a blood pressure medication or something like that, that you're on for life, that's a hell of a lot better than them giving you something that actually might fix it and you’re off it in two weeks’ time. That's why there's no money going into antivirals, medications and things because you'll be on it for a couple of weeks, and then it's over. So they can't really make money. Well, they can't make money out of repurposing drugs that are off-patent. You know, get into the bloody weeds on that stuff.

I think what's important for us to do is just to shine a light on the positive things that we have been through and be proactive. And be aware that there are forces at play that are not always got your best interests at heart, not to just accept whatever is dished up to you. Go and do your own research. Go and talk to this. Listen to the scientists. Listen to people who are really educated in the space. That’s not me and it's not you. But I listen to the people who are at the top of this game, and then I make my decisions over what I do. We won't always get it right. But make your own mind up and be responsible for your own as best you can. There'll always be a left-field thing. The shingles came out of me even though I'm on all the right things and doing the right things. Because probably I've got too much stress in my life. And I take accountability for that and trying to mitigate that which I'm trying to do.

Russell: My summary to all of that is with your own health and what people are telling you to use or take or consume, you got to do your own due diligence.

Lisa: Always, always. Hey, Russell, you've been absolutely magnificent. I want to have you back on. I'd love to talk to your wife about her journey too at some point because yeah, really excited to meet you to have you on the show. It's been a real honour. Another you know, like-minded person, keep fighting the battle. Right?

Russell: That's it, it’s been great. I really appreciate you having me. Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa: And where do people go to if they want to find out more about you, what you do?

Russell: The best place to just go to my website where you can understand what I do, what I've done, who I work with, and how you can connect and it's just www.russelljarrett.com.au

Lisa: www.russelljarrett.com.au. We'll put that in the show notes people. Check it out and we'll see you on the other side.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We regularly buy our food from markets without a second thought. But to take charge of our health and nutrition, we have to ask: are these foods really good for us?

From produce to sauces, our food can be chock-full of harmful chemicals without us knowing about it. Even if you are a more conscious shopper, the industry labels ingredients to take on deceptively natural-sounding names. Fresh produce can also be laden with pesticides.

So, how can we be more discerning about our food?

Celebrity nutritionist Cyndi O’Meara joins us in this episode to discuss how we can watch out for harmful foods. She shares how food production and supply have changed drastically over the years. Her advice? Check the label. She also recommends being a nutrition activist by taking matters into your own hands and doing your own research.

If you want to know more about eating real food for wellness, then this episode is for you!

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand how food production and supply have changed over the years and why we need to educate ourselves about it. 2. Learn how certain chemicals are clean labelled to become more natural-sounding ingredients. 3. Discover how you can improve your health by changing your diet.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to the Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + #170: Dr David Minkoff: The Search For The Perfect Protein And Why So Many Of Us Are Deficient * Connect with Cyndi: Facebook I Twitter I LinkedIn * Books by Cyndi: * + Changing Habits Changing Lives + Lab to Table: Food used to be grown on a farm...now it's made in a lab * Changing Habits: New Zealand and Australia * Take up nutrition courses by Cyndi at The Nutrition Academy * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness!

Episode Highlights [03:29] Cyndi’s Background on Nutrition * Cyndi first enrolled in anthropology but subsequently shifted to nutrition. * She saw how dietitians viewed nutrition—mechanistically. So, she decided to study human anatomy instead. * After university, she started doing nutrition consultations. She advised her clients to shift from the SAD (standard Australian diet) to real foods. * Her approach worked wonders for her clients. But forty years later, this type of nutrition shift is no longer enough. * Due to the consumption of ultra-processed foods, many people's food sensitivities require individualised nutrition.

[09:40] The Food Industry’s Tricks * The food industry has become sneakier over the years. * Many packaged and processed foods smell and look like real food even when they are not. * For example, vanilla flavouring can be the product of bacteria's consumption of a substrate. * These substrates can be animal-, plant-, or even plastic-based. * Many food additives are a product of synthetic biology. Listen to the full episode to learn more!

[14:29] The Changing Landscape of Our Food Supply * The industry now uses genetic modification on microbes, not just on crops. * Genetically modified corn produces toxins that cause bugs’ stomachs to explode, which we then consume. * These toxins are harmful to the cells in our gut. * In Australia and New Zealand, there is a campaign to radiate fresh produce in groceries. * Cyndi argues that this move would destroy the good soil-based bugs in these foods and sterilise the seeds.

[20:06] Becoming a Health and Nutrition Activist * Question the origins of your food. You can start by asking local farmers. * Cyndi started the Nutrition Academy to promote local farmers and empower individuals to choose the food they eat. * Changing your food choices can be overwhelming. However, small steps are better than none. * You can start with changing your breakfast and learning to prioritise real foods over processed ones.

[26:57] Decoding Ingredients * Cyndi advocates checking all your food's ingredients. * For example, quality chocolate should have no emulsifiers, as these kill the bacteria that protect your gut. * Many ingredients, such as rosemary extract, sound natural but are either synthetic or heavily processed. In the food industry, this is called clean labelling. * Stop buying packaged foods. Instead, make things from scratch or buy from someone you trust. * Learn to read ingredients and make sure that there are no extracts, acids, flavours, colours, and sweeteners.

[37:00] Start to Question and Think * A lot of clinical studies nowadays are being funded by industries with a vested interest. * Start to question information. Research credible sources for yourself. * There is always a better way—make the effort to learn about it. * Many people think that diseases come with age, but this is only because they've accumulated so many bad habits.

[43:45] Improve and Change Your Lifestyle * Your body can heal and do wonders only if you change your habits. * Make sure you manage your stress and do things to lower your stress levels. * With our nutrition, we can affect which of our genes turn on and off. * Simple walks or touching soil can increase the good bacteria in your microbiome and boost your serotonin levels. * Don't just stay isolated in front of your screen. Go out into nature to become healthy.

[49:38] Longevity and Wellness * In ancient cultures, people lived up to 100 years. * Nowadays, many people are suffering from chronic illnesses or have a disability. * We need both a vitalistic and mechanistic view of health. * However, the health system tends to isolate our conditions instead of looking at the patient’s lifestyle.

[56:16] Trust and Questioning * Advertising has led us to believe that if we’re not well, we need to take pills. * We have to shift from a paradigm of trust to one of questioning. * Do your homework and learn more about what you’re consuming.

7 Powerful Quotes 'I grow my own food. Because I think we're going to get to a point where people are either going to have to do that or put up with what the food industry is doing.'

‘You're an activist because you are choosing to buy from a farmer in your area.’

‘We didn't want to eat BHA and BHT. We don't want to eat MSG. We got smart. We would look on the label, (sic) it would have that, we'd say no.’

‘It's about reading the ingredients and making sure there's no extracts and acids and flavours and colours and sweeteners.’

‘Our body has the ability to fight. But if we do not feed it the right ingredients, if we do not give it the lifestyle it needs… and if we don't give it sunshine, if we don't give it love and connection, if we don't breathe properly, and sleep, then we are going to be in trouble.’

‘You look at a lot of the clinical studies that have been funded by the industry that's promoting it, and you have to ask yourself, ‘How independent was theirs?’

‘Once you have your philosophy, you don't fall for everything.’

About Cyndi Cyndi O’Meara is a nutritionist, best-selling author, international speaker and the founder of Changing Habits, an innovative and impactful whole foods company. Cyndi also built The Nutrition Academy, an online course to teach nutrition based on vitalistic philosophies, anthropology, environment, and lifestyle.

Her passion for nutrition also led to her groundbreaking book, Changing Habits Changing Lives, and her most recent work, Lab to Table. She is also an in-demand keynote speaker, especially after her What’s With Wheat? TEDx Talk. Cyndi and her businesses are multi-awarded in Australia.

Interested in Cyndi’s work? Check out Changing Habits and The Nutrition Academy.

You can also reach her on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they can learn how to improve their nutrition.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today I have another fantastic guest with you. Cyndi O'Meara from Australia, from the Sunshine Coast, joins me today. Now she is a celebrity nutritionist. She's an author, she's an all around amazing lady. I can't believe that she's actually 61, because she looks like in her 30s. She's just an incredible bundle of energy and an incredible mind of information. So I do hope you enjoy this episode that gets really into the weeds on nutrition, on E numbers, on the chemicals and foods, on toxins, on things that you really really need to know about. So I hope you enjoy this episode.

Before we head over to the show, just want to let you know about our Boost Camp. Now, this is not boot camp, this is Boost Camp. This is an eight week long online webinar series that Neil and I are running from the first of September, and we would love you to come and join us. This program is all about you all about upgrading your life, all about being the best version of yourself that you can be. It's about ageing like a winner. It's about longevity, it's about upregulating your brain and your mind and fine-tuning yourself to being more resilient. It's about health fundamentals. It's about understanding your biology, understanding what types of exercise to do and when and how, understanding your own body types, understanding more about your genetics, this is a really full on program that we'll be delivering live. And you can join us then we would love you to do that.

So what I want you to do is to head over to peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp. Not boot camp, Boost Camp. B-O-O-S-T-C-A-M-P. I'll repeat that: peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp, and join us on this program. If you didn't catch that URL, write to me, I'll send it to you immediately. If you want to upregulate your life, have more resilience, be tougher, mentally stronger, have more focus, have more control over your life, your biology, then do join us where we really, really stoked to have you come on board.

Also, just a reminder, too: we have our Patron program for the podcast now, is open. This is a way for you to support this podcast. We've been going now for five and a half years, and every week I find incredible guests for you to listen to and learn from. This is like having a university in your pocket basically, with the best professors, with the best doctors, with the best scientists, with the most elite athletes, real high performance people. It takes an awful lot of work, I can tell you, and it's been five and a half years and I really need a bit of help to keep this on air. So we would really appreciate your support. You can join us for the price of a cup of coffee a month that really, these micro commitments that people do really help the show stay on the air. So if you like what we're about, if you like our mission, if you want to support this mission on helping people take control of their health, and be more in control of their life, then please head on to patron, P-A-T-R-O-N dot lisatamati.com. Right, now over to this exciting show with Cyndi O’Meara.

Hi everyone and welcome to Pushing the Limits. I am super excited to have you with me again this week for another exciting installment of the show. I have lovely Cyndi O'Meara with me, who is sitting on the Sunshine Coast in Australia. Welcome to the show.

Cyndi O’Meara: Thank you.

Lisa: Fantastic to have you there. Cyndi is a celebrity nutritionist, author, runs a company called Changing Habits in Australia, which is all about educating people, from what I understand, educating people around nutrition and helping them cut through the mess of the noise that's out there and get them into the right mindset and the right things to be thinking about. So today we're going to do a bit of a deep dive into the world of nutrition. So Cyndi, before we get underway with some topics, can you just give the listeners who don't know you a little bit of background about you and what you do?

Cyndi: Sure. So I graduated, well, I started my nutrition education in 1980. But I actually didn't start as a nutritionist. I was doing pre-med at the University of Colorado and one of the subjects that I did was anthropology. I did a year of anthropology and cultural anthropology and I thought, ‘Wow, it was food that was really important in the survival of humans and so that we could have babies and keep going,’ and I was really intrigued by it and I thought, well I'll become a nutritionist.

So I came back to Australia and I went to Deakin University and finished my Bachelor of Science majoring in nutrition to go do dietetics and at the end I went, ‘This is nothing like what I was taught in anthropology’. So in anthropology, I was taught hunter-gatherer, agriculturalists, paleo, herders — real food. There was no margarine, there was no low fat, there was no processed or ultra-processed foods. There was none of this, and this is what the dietitians were talking about.

They were looking at more mechanistically nutrition, as opposed to what I was taught with culture and anthropology was to look at it very bio-holistically. So I decided, well, I couldn't become a dietitian. So I went back to university to RMIT. I did two years of human anatomy. That was, I kept cadavers for two years, I did all the -ology: the pathology, embryology, histology, parasitology, everything.

At the end of that, six years at uni, I went, ‘I actually know what the human body needs, it needs real food, it needs what I learned in my first year of university.’ I could have stopped going to university, and done what I thought. I started to just do consultations, and I only did real foods. I didn't, I got them off the SAD diet, which is the standard Australian diet. We could call it the SNZD diet — too the standard New Zealand diet. The standard American diet and the standard UK diet — margarine, breakfast cereals, low-fat milk, bread, cheese, those plastic fantastic foods and gotten them onto real food. And the results were remarkable. So that was in the 80s.

We now jump to 2021, 40 years on. What I am seeing is a vastly different population, and vastly different problems that we didn't see in the 80s. Now, it's almost like we need to do very individualized nutrition, because so many people have food sensitivities, food allergies, they have the antecedents of their life. So they may have been exposed to a chemical, they may have eaten ultra-processed foods and so they've wrecked their guts or, whatever is happening in—

Lisa: Yep, these products or something like that.

Cyndi: Yeah, I only had to change their diet from the SAD diet to real food diet, and we’d get results. I can't do that anymore. So the thing is it we then have to dive deep to find out what is the root cause of what's happening, and what is the problem? I'm not just talking on an individual basis, here, I'm talking on a global basis. 78% of the US population has a gut issue. 50, I think it's 48 to 50% of their kids have chronic disease, one or more. In Australia, it's 38 to 40 with chronic disease.

Now, when I went to school in the 60s, 2% of the whole population of Australia had a chronic disease. Now we have our kids at 38 and 40%. And New Zealand won't be any different, they will be about the same as Australia. If you get to 60, at the age of 60, which I am, I'm 61 this year—

Lisa: Wow, you look amazing! You’ve done something right.

Cyndi: Well, this is what I do, I eat real food, and I look the best I can. So at the age of 60, the chances of you having chronic disease, one or more, is 80%. So I'm in the 20% percentile. Because I don't do what the rest of the population do. I am not a statistic because I don't do what they're doing. If you want to be a statistic, you do what everybody else is doing. If you don't want to be a statistic, you do something completely different.

That's what I learned very early on. Don't go with what everybody else is doing. Do something different. I would believe that that's you, Lisa. I have to tell you this, Lisa. We've already had the opposite interview where I interviewed you and what you did with your mum and your book. I went through a bit of a crisis in our family and that kept, what you said kept playing in my ear.

Lisa: Really?

Cyndi: What you did. You think you're doing something that should be working and your mum just stayed on that level, and then she shot up? Yeah, that's what was happening with us. So I'm well thank you for your incredible resilience, your persistence, everything you did.

Lisa: Someone to tell, someone to tell.

Cyndi: Yeah, and I guess that's what I've always been like, but you, your words were brilliant. Thank you.

Lisa: And we all need people to come along and confirm that we're on the right track sometimes because we are getting bombarded with ‘This isn't possible’. I mean, I've just been working with a young man today. He's had a mess of brain injury and the doctors have told him, ‘You'll never talk, you’ll never walk, you’ll never do anything again’. He's already eight months into his rehabilitation, he's talking, he's starting to walk, and I'm helping him with different things now, and he will make a full comeback. I have no doubt about it, because he has a family that's behind him, he has a mum who thinks outside the box, and is willing to do whatever it takes, and those are the people that will get the results.

This is why these sort of conversations are so, so crucial to have so that we start to understand, and you have the expertise in the area that I'm sort of, know a little bit about but I'm not a complete expert in nutrition side of it. So I'm really keen to dive in. And if I can help you with your family situation, please do reach out. I’d love to help

Cyndi: We might just have a little conversation at the end of it.

Lisa: Yes, we will. I actually was going to take you through the epigenetics, I've just remembered now, and go through that path with you. But I totally agree with you. What I'm seeing in our population now is, when I was at school in the 70s, it was obesity was a rare thing. You had the odd kid who was overweight. Now you look around, and it's like the opposite is having any kid who's not overweight, and people seem to see that this is normal.

If our kids are already like this, and they're already developing things like prediabetes and diabetes before they even reach puberty, in some cases, this is like a mess of warning alarms. For me what's coming down the road as far as a health crisis and the cost that this is going to be on, you know, and human suffering, but also on the society. We have to start standing up and saying, ‘Hey, what we're doing isn't working guys, and we need to make some changes’.

The real food is definitely we we need to be starting from and the processed foods, what is it that's in processed foods that is causing so much trouble? Because isn't like a spaghetti bolognese sauce that I buy from Domino's or something, why is it not the same as what grandma made when she got tomatoes out of the garden? Let's start there, and the weird sort of stuff, so to speak.

Cyndi: So in 1998, I wrote a book called Changing Habits, Changing Lives, and it was about the food industry and what food they were suggesting you had for breakfast, I'd say so breakfast cereal, and then I would explain how they make it, what's put into it, what is fortification? So I'd go through that, and then I'd give an example of what we could have for breakfast. Since that time, I have updated that book five times, because the food industry is not getting better as far as our health goes, but they're getting incredibly tricky, with additives and their chemicals to make you think you're eating food.

So it might smell like food, look like food, taste like food, but it is, no way is it food. Let me give you an example of natural vanilla flavoring. This is just one ingredient. So what they've done is that they've figured out if they genetically modify a bacteria, and they put in the smell of the vanilla bean, so the smell of the vanilla bean gene into that bacteria, put it on recycled plastic, as a substrate as it's eating, it eats it, it will make natural vanilla flavoring.

Lisa: Oh my God. So it’s coals. Really?

Cyndi: Really.

Lisa: That's a new one on a completely left field. That's just one little wee, soddy flavoring.

Cyndi: One ingredient: citric acid, you think it comes from citrus. They genetically modify a mold, put it on a substrate, the substrate could be animal-based, it could be plant based, it could be plastic-based. They're getting really, they're figuring out that there are bacteria that will eat plastic and produce something. So it produces like citric acid. A lot of our additives now are what we call synthetic biology. So they're genetically modifying microbes in order to make a vitamin, amino acid, or something that's going to go into your supplements or into your food supply or your medicine.

Lisa: Wow, that's frightening. That's frightening what you just told me there and I wasn't aware that that, to that degree, the genetic modifying of our food is so because you know, you stay away from genetic modified crops. This is about as far as my knowledge goes in that direction, to be honest. So you're saying that the additives and the preservatives and the stuff that they're using in there is actually, they're doing this genetic stuff?

Cyndi: Yeah, so they figured out that microbes, you know, nobody's gonna care about microbes, and don't like animals or rats or anything like that. No one's gonna care about microbes. They figured that if they genetically modify them, they can manipulate them to do anything. In the 1990s, a Japanese company manipulated, I think it was tryptophan. They use the genetic modification of a microbe and produce tryptophan, put it in tablets, sent it out into the market, and I think it was 150 people died and 1,500 people were injured permanently as a result of this tryptophan.

They figured out that the bug produced a toxin to protect itself from the tryptophan or something like that. So it was pulled from the market, they soon quickly figured out what was causing it. But it was all covered up, nobody talked about it. I think in the 90s, that kind of calmed that genetic modification down, not as many people were wanting to do it, but now it's at full surge.

Not everything is being made, of course, by genetic modification. Some things are being made with just making a bunch of chemicals and putting them together. So if I was to give you a strawberry flavoring, strawberry flavoring can have 48 chemicals in it. That strawberry flavoring and if one item is natural in that 48 chemicals, it's natural strawberry flavoring, not artificials.

Lisa: You’re kidding me. So they're just playing with these names and just putting in something natural in order to make it natural.

Cyndi: They are absolute masters at it and people don't realize. I'm just telling you one thing that is happening. So if we take it to the genetic modification of foods such as soy and canola and sugar beet and cottonseed, and things like that. If we go there, these are called either Bt, so Bt-Corn, which is a toxin that the corn produces. So when the bug eats it's a pesticide. When the bug eats it, its stomach explodes. That's still in the corn, when you eat it.

Lisa: Oh my god.

Cyndi: What we're finding is that while it won't explode our stomach, what it does is it explodes the, it destroys the gut cells, which is one cell thick. So it starts to erode them, and you start to get gaps in your gut and allow protein, chemicals, and things into your blood, which you don't want. You don't want that.

So then the other ones are Roundup Ready. So Roundup being ain chemical that has glyphosate it. So Roundup Ready soya, Roundup Ready sugar beet. But now they're starting to realize that roundup is not doing what it should be doing on the pest; or not, it's a pesticide but it's more for grass and weeds and things like that. They're finding that that's not working anymore. Now they're producing 2,4-D ready crops, Dicamba ready crops. So Dicamba came into the spotlight I think was last year or the year before when there was a Dicamba ready crop that was sprayed, and all the spray floated over to a I think it was a peach or pear farmer's lands, and killed all of these trees. He actually sued, I think it was Bayer or Monsanto and I'm pretty sure he's won that case.

Lisa: That’s a big giant to take on.

Cyndi: Exactly. This is what is happening to our food supply. We, the Australian and New Zealand Food Standards. So Food Standards Australia, New Zealand have been requested by Queensland agriculture, for Australia wide; I don't know if they'll do it in New Zealand, but an Australia-wide food irradiation process on all fresh fruits and vegetables sold in the grocery stores.

Now when you do that, what it does, is instead of you just cleaning your lettuce and, and doing a bit of a sterilization on it, which is what they do, whether it's organic or not, they have to sterilize it to get rid of any bacteria. So what they're now doing is they want to radiate it because it just doesn't get rid of the surface bugs, it gets rid of the bugs that are inside the food as well. But we need those soil based bugs, of course, they help us with our microbiome. So they're all of a sudden starting to say, we want to radiate everything.

Now not only will they kill every bug in our food, what they will also do is that they will sterilize the seed. You know, when on your compost tea, three tomatoes and your pumpkin and and then you've got this pumpkin growing out of your compost, even a tomato growing out of your compost or cucumber. That won't happen.

Lisa: Oh my god, we're not going to have seed come, and who's going to control the seed like that?

Cyndi: I do my own, I grow my own food. Because I think we're going to get to a point where people are either gonna have to do that or put up with what the food industry is doing.

Lisa: And destroy their health.

Cyndi: Yeah, and it's all ultra processed foods. So the whole vegan movement even, I can read you the ingredients of what is called ‘just egg’, and it's a bunch of chemicals. It's an ultra-processed food and it is not saving the planet, in actual fact is the worst thing for the planet.

Lisa: Jeez, oh my god, this is, I’m all terrified now.

Cyndi: I don't want to terrify you. What I want to do is make you aware of what's happening.

Lisa: Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Cyndi: Go to your local farmer, you go to your local farmers market, you support these small time farmers instead of Woolies or Kohl's or whatever you've got over there. Say, Breyer, I forget what's in New Zealand.

Lisa: New World.

Cyndi: All you do is that you change the way you buy your foods, or where you buy your foods from, because then you become an activist by yourself. Don't care about anybody else. You're an activist, because you are choosing to buy from a farmer in your area. And I'm sure you already have some incredible region farmers in your area.

Lisa: You think they are, they're not, how do you know that they're not using the same practices and the soils? And so, I mean—

Cyndi: You talk to them, they're passionate. Go to the farmers’ market, and you say, ‘Do you grow your food’? ‘Yes, I do’. Do you use any chemicals? ‘No’. What kind of farming do you do? ‘I want to actually do something called regenerative farming. Have you ever heard of that? Or I do organic farming or I do biodynamic farming, and this is how I do it’.

They’re so passionate, they want to tell you. So what I do is, I grow a lot. But when I'm not growing some foods, I will go to my farmers markets, and I know my farmers now in the farmers markets. I've done the hard work. And I have something called the Nutrition Academy. And it's a bunch of people that come and do a year with me, and they become the people that do the research in their area. People come to them and say, well, which farmer should I go to at this market or that farmers market.

I want to create a groundswell of activists who say, we're not eating genetically modified foods, or anything made with a genetically modified bug, or anything that has something ultra processed in it. We're not prepared to buy from the grocery stores, because they can't guarantee me where this is coming from. So I will find a farmers market and I’ll support, there are so many young people that want to be farmers, all we have to do as individual say, I'll buy a box from you, or a community supported agricultural box, I’ll buy a box from you every week, whatever you're growing, I’ll buy it.

Then to supplement you go to your local, organic shop, your local fruit and veggie shop, ask them the questions. It's about us becoming inquisitive. If that's what you do this, please say you're inquisitive, you went there telling me my mum's gonna be like that for the rest of my life. Surely there's something out there. What is happening, medicine’s not working, they're telling me nothing's going to happen. So I'm going to go and enquire with other people. That's what I asked people to do with their food supply, is to enquire.

Lisa: It’s not obvious! I've looked locally, and I've just found one recently who's delivering certain times, a couple of times a week, and I have to get through, and you're like, ‘Lisa’s found somebody now’. But it's always out of the way, and it's extra work, and it's, you're busy and you whatever, and there isn't a lot of farmers’ markets in our area. There isn't, and I've been looking into a couple of farms here, and then they find out oh actually they’re not organic, organic, even though they, you know, say that, but their seeds aren't in there, you know, there's certain practices. So there's thinks little problems, especially when you live in a rural area, and there's not necessarily a bigger place where these people can congregate. But I'm downloading a little bit more, time to dig deeper. Time, to really get into it.

Cyndi: Yeah, it will be somebody in your area, because this farm is everywhere, that they would love farming, and they would love to be able to sell their produce. But if we take it a step by step, and we do it like this, so let's say you're on the SAD diet, the Standard Australian New Zealand diet, let's just say you're on that. If you go from that SAD diet, and you just go to the fruit and veggie, meats, dairy section of your grocery store. That's a really good start. That's a great start.

Once that's in your life, then you go well, I want a better quality fruit and veg and meat maybe, or dairy. Because that many dairy farms and lamb and everything in New Zealand. So you go well, I want to better quality this, where can I find somebody in my area. So it might be six months after you've gone from the SAD diet to the, at least eating fruits, vegetables, meats, and making your own food that you go, I want better quality.

Then you go and seek out maybe a butcher that's doing the right thing or a fruit stand that's doing the right thing. So don't think you have to jump immediately. That's why I wrote ‘check it out’. Realize that it’s like, let's start with breakfast, then let's do salt, then let's do dairy, then let's do grains, then let's do nuts, then let's do seeds. Let's do chocolate, let's do— so it's a 52-week, one thing you change a week. Or if it takes you longer than a week to change them, that's fine, 53 weeks. Imagine when you start, where you will be in one year.

Lisa: Absolutely, it's the same with exercise is the same with everything, isn’t it. Just taking it, you don't have to jump right in at the big change, just start with one change, awaken it. That just makes so much sense in just putting in a bit more effort to find things and do things and maybe start growing, I started growing my own vegetables without having much success.

Cyndi: Greens in New Zealand grow incredibly. So it's about—

Lisa: For most people.

Cyndi: Invest in greens, because they’re like a weed.

Lisa: Yes, yeah, we've got some of those going. It's just making the time to do that, and to prioritize those, because I think I've definitely been aware of the whole processed food. So you stay away from the obvious things, but you've just taken it to another level as far as the genetically modified stuff. That's completely new to me, so that's really important. But starting where you're at, and improving it every week, and just taking on a little bit, because I'm a big fan of that in everything in life, because everything can be overwhelming.

If you get overwhelmed, then you tend to do nothing. It's better to be walking for five minutes a day than to be doing no minutes a day. It's better to be getting good fruits and veggies, and later on you work on the other pieces, if this makes a whole lot of sense. Is there a program through, that you have as an educational online content type of thing as well?

Cyndi: It's in my book. So we renamed Changing Habits, Changing Lives to Lab to Table, because that's what it is, at the moment, it's about—

Lisa: Wow, Lab to Table. So I'll put the links and stuff.

Cyndi: Stop being a lab rat and start making better choices for your table. And that's on Audible as well. So people can listen to it and just listen to one chapter and go ‘Right, that's what I'm going to do’. They can jump, they can go anywhere they want. They can start with chocolate, if they really want to. I just say well, where can I buy good quality chocolate that's got no emulsifiers? So an emulsifier is in most chocolate and emulsifiers kill the bacteria that makes the layer that protects you from the outside world, in your gut.

Even that little thing that you do by looking at a chocolate that doesn't have lecithin, it's called soy lecithin or sunflower lecithin, or something that's an emulsifier, even if it doesn't have that, so I teach you how to find a good quality chocolate, if that's where you want to start.

Lisa: Chocolate’s important, so that's a great place to start.

Cyndi: Find the white salt out and getting some good salt that’s not refined, hasn't got anticaking agents in it, doesn't have free flowing agent in it. They don't, you don't realize it because nobody reads their salt packet. They don't read the ingredients. So I just tell you, this is what's on it, go to your pantry, have a look. If you don't believe me, go to the pantry, have a look at what they put in. They'll have potassium iodide in there as well because that's the chemical form of iodine but you want natural iodide.

So an actual iodine is seaweed and New Zealand's got heaps of seaweed, you know. What I do is I make a salt with seaweed in it and it's called seaweed salt, and that's on the Changing Habits website and we do have a Changing Habits New Zealand website, so you can purchase it and and get it delivered to you not via Australia but New Zealand so I think it's changinghabits—

Lisa: .co.nz? Yeah, usually. Okay, we'll get, I'll get my team to—

Cyndi: But mine is .com.au, and we have one of my graduates who runs that and does all the deliveries and everything from New Zealand. So that was one of my graduates from 12 months’ education with me. So these people come out knowing exactly how to help people. It might be a trip to the farmers market. It might be coming into your pantry and going through your pantry. I can go into someone's pantry and I can pull 10 things out. Let's say one is barbecue sauce, another one’s tomato sauce, another one’s hot chili sauce. In other words, I'll pull out all the sauces, and all the sauces will have tomato as the base. All of the sauces will have a citric or an acidity regulator, so citric acid. All of the sauces will have a flavor or sweetener.

So the flavor is what makes the difference. It's not how you used to make your chili sauces or tomato sauces or barbecue sauces. This is an industry that has a base and then they just put a different flavor in, the sweetener might be a little bit different, the acidity regulator might be a citric acid, or it could be citric acid or it could be something else. And basically, you are looking at eating the same thing, just with a different flavor and a different texture.

Lisa: I would have thought, I didn't know that citric acid, for example, was a bad thing, because I thought that came, because you're not educated in this area specifically. You don't know that some of the things that sounds like potassium iodide, that sounds like a natural thing. And so being able to decode that, and I bet they do that partly differently, too, so that you actually think it's something natural—

Cyndi: In the industry, it's called clean labeling. So people like me, got smart. We didn't want to eat BHA and BHT. We don't want to eat MSG. We got smart. We would look on the label, it would have that, we'd say no. So what they've done is they've renamed these. So BHA and BHT is called rosemary extract.

Lisa: Really? So you're just, you just have never sure, unless you really spend some time educating yourself.

Cyndi: Exactly. I read all the labels. So what they've done, rosemary extract is yes, it started with rosemary. But they pulled out one chemical out of the rosemary bark and rosemary leaf. With that, they do all sorts of processes to it, and it ends up as an antioxidant, a synthetic antioxidant, my way of thinking. But because it's an extract from rosemary, they call it rosemary extract, and you go ‘Oh, it's just rosemary extract’. Yeast extract, you think oh it’s yeast extract, but it's MSG. So what they've done is rename, every single natural flavoring is the same as artificial flavoring, they just added one little natural chemical, and well purchase strategies that they put in there.

You might read turmeric, or curcumin, everyone does, or curcumin. 75% of all curcumin is made in the laboratory. It's not extracted from turmeric. The most of the population don't know what's happening. And that's why I go, just stop buying packaged foods. And you do have to make things from scratch, or you have to buy it with somebody that you trust. So it's about reading the ingredients and making sure there's no extracts and acids and flavors and colors and sweeteners. If it said tomato, onion, chili, sugar, salt, I'd be happy. I don't have a problem with sugar. I have a problem with all the other crap.

You’re blaming sugar. I don't mean lots of sugar. I'd like to see Rapadura sugar, but they're blaming sugar on what I believe is a vegetable oil problem, and all these additives.

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Cyndi: One of the things that we do know about this genetic modification that's happening at the moment in the microbes is that there's a disease out there called Morgellons disease, you can look it up. At first the doctors just thought that everybody was a little bit weird and psychotic in a way, that there's sort of mental illness. But what would happen is like, on the, a cut would come here and you'd get a pink and an orange and a yellow and a red fiber that would just come out of your mouth or it might happen here or wherever you gotta cut that would be these fibers, colorful fibers.

So the doctors all said, ‘Oh, you just been rubbing on carpet. You just, you've got Munchausen this disease,’ or whatever, whatever that, or you’re hypochondriac, you know, but what they're really beginning to realize is that some of these microbes, now these are microbes that make fibers. They're associating these microbes with this disease that has gotten into our microbiome. And as a result, they make them. That's their job. So I kind of figure if I'm going to eat natural vanilla, if that bug that makes natural vanilla flavor, does that mean, like, who's gonna smell like vanilla? You know, like, I just wonder. And I make a joke about it but in actual fact, it's, it's no joke. No, they are like nature. And so I choose not to support them in any way.

Lisa: No. And that takes a huge commitment. But that's, that's where we need to be heading towards and like you say, one step at a time.

Cyndi: Just one step at a time. And if in a year, you're doing that, or even two years, it's better than for the next 30 years or three decades, you've not changed and you have more Morgellons disease, or you're scared of a virus called COVID. It's actually called SARS-COVID 2. COVID-19 is the disease. Our body has the ability to fight. But if we do not feed it the right ingredients, if we do not give it the lifestyle it needs, such as exercises, you do running and yoga, and if we don't give it sunshine, if we don't give it love and connection, if we don't breathe properly, and sleep, then we are going to be in trouble. And we will become vulnerable to SARS-COVID 2 or whatever else comes along. Don't be scared of an invisible thing.

Lisa: Yeah, and this isn't mean, this is, you know, those are all my wheelhouse. And that's what I'm always preaching on every week is one of these health fundamentals that if we, in relation to the slide, as far as you know, if we were just focusing on building our immune system, and eating healthier, and doing more exercise, and things would actually be at least better off, even if we did manage to, you know, unfortunately contract it. And we don't want, listen, this whole journey that I've been on the last five years and listening to, you know, I've had hundreds of doctors, scientists, experts, like yourself, sharing their corner of the world's knowledge.

I have absolutely no faith anymore in the authorities, or to be honest, I have no faith in the standards of medical care, I have no faith. Even though you know, like, clinical evidence, can be manipulated, and pushed in a certain way to make something look like it's good and it's safe. Then you look at a lot of the clinical studies that have been funded by the industry that's promoting it, and you have to ask yourself, how independent was theirs? There's just, there's just holes all over the place. And what I think you and I are, you know, with our different expertise as and trying to do is to get people just to question. Just to not take whatever is being thrown at you propaganda wise or whatever it is to actually question, do the research yourself, start to look at it.

It is confusing and overwhelming at times. But when you take control and when you're faced with the big situations, like I have been in my life, unfortunately few times now, not just with mom's story. I've had to face and work things out. If it was up to the doctors, I would have no uterus. I'm about to go through IVF. I'm 52 years old. They told me four years ago, I will die if I do not have a hysterectomy because I had fibroids. Now why did I have fibroids probably because I was on the pill for 30 years. But that's another story. I refused to have my uterus taken out because I believe there was another way. It took me a year to work it out. But I found a way. I found another doctor who worked out exactly which of the fibroids it was a 10 minute operation that was gone. That was a year of suffering bleeding, anemia, blood transfusions every week, but I refused to have the hysterectomy because I wanted to preserve the chance to have a child. And now I'm 52 and I'm able to go through and I don't have it, I didn't die and I still got my uterus. I've only shared that story.

These are the things we have to question. We just work things out and we're just given a white little pill and it's gonna make things better and go away. And I'm sorry, it's not how biology works. It takes time and it takes effort and it takes grind and it takes research. But if you're willing to do that, you're gonna end up looking, you know, like you do at 61. Not like most people who have autoimmune diseases, who have diabetes, who have heart disease, who have all of the horrible things that happened to us.

If we can prevent some people going down that path, then you know, our job's worth doing. If we can help one person who's listening to this just to open their eyes, and you certainly opened my eyes today. I thought I knew a lot, but I know I don't know enough. I don't know enough. This is why I spend like hours every day studying. Every day is a study day, every day is a learning day, every day is a day where I get to connect with amazing people like you that can share another piece of insight that I'm like, ‘Wow, that's terrifying. But okay, let's do something about it’. Sorry I’ve gone on my slip ups.

Cyndi: You did brilliantly, because this is what's happening is there will be people like you that are proactive in your health. Then there'll be people who don't want to change. They'll go get their uterus out, they'll take that pill, they'll never eat the right foods. That's okay, we can’t help them. But there is a group in the middle that are inquiring and questioning and saying there's got to be a better way. I just don't know where it is, how do I find it. So they're the people that I hope to get to, because people like you are proactive, you're already doing it, you don't need me. But it's the people in the middle that are going ‘I know there's a better way, I know I can do this, but I don't know where to go and I can't find it’.

Then they get this aha. And from that, aha, they change their ways from the SAD diet to a different diet. And once they start to feel better, then they go and they start exercising, or they may exercise first and then decide on their food. Then there's this unbelievable effect that happens. Then they become vocal with their family and friends. That's what we want, is that we need them out there being vocal. It's all right, there will be people that don't want to change, and I don't want to even change them. That's just not my market. It's not my people. But I am here for the people who go, ‘Oh, I want to know more. How do I learn more?’

That's why I guess Changing Habits is really more education. Even though we do programs and protocols, and we've got food, my main thing is to educate you is to get you on a program or protocol, and then go, now that you've done that we feeling better, what are the things that you need to learn in order for you to progress as opposed to degress. If you think that you can come on a program or program with me, and go back to your old ways, and still feel amazing, you're delusional, you cannot go back. You have to keep going. So my thing is, if you're coming on that journey with me, please be prepared to be on this and to make major changes in your life that are sustainable, and for the rest of your life.

It's not the one big thing we do once a year that makes the difference. It's those little things that we do every single day, like the five minutes of walking, the banana instead of the chocolate bar, or better quality chocolate instead of a chocolate bar because they’re all shit.

Lisa: Yeah. We gotta find some good chocolate.

Cyndi: You've done a terrible job of making chocolate. You’ve bastardize the whole thing.

Lisa: Oh, no.

Cyndi: Yes. So this is what I want to achieve and the more people that are awoken, the less will have chronic disease, and the less will be vulnerable to whatever comes along. So we know just by the statistics that have happened in the last 16 months, that the people that are vulnerable to SARS-COVID 2 are those with chronic disease. People like you people like me, we're not even, there's not even a death rate amongst us. It just doesn't happen. But it does with people with chronic disease, and it's not the age group, it's your health. And yet they're putting us into age groups because that statistics what happens at age—

Lisa: You get all these diseases, because you've been doing all the stuff for so long and there is genetic components to it and pieces of the puzzle. I partly because I studied genetics, and I know that I actually have a, I'm missing one of the genes for respiratory protection. So I'm actually in a higher risk category, but I can know that and like that I can take my vitamin D’s and my magnesium, my things. Whatever’s going to help me be healthier and then be armed. I mean, my house is full of biohacking, gadgets, machines, things are back standing behind me. I'm ready for battle. Because I know that I can still go down because I have a genetic predisposition to certain things. However, you know, like I was an asmathic as a kid. Severe asthmatic, in and out of hospital all my childhood.

But because I now have my inflammation in my body under control, I don't have asthma anymore. We didn't know that when I was a child, what was causing it. We cut out dairy but that was about it. My parents didn't know what else, things like gluten that we talked about back then and we lived next door to an orchard that was spraying everything everywhere. So goodness knows, but now I don't have a problem with asthma. Now is that because I've changed my diet, my lifestyle and all that sort of thing? Yeah, probably because I am missing that gene completely. So I have no sort of respiratory protection. So I am more prone to that. There's different aspects that we need to be aware of.

One of the biggest, I think, things that, something that I'm big on is stress management, because stress is definitely going to, and this is something that I've been with personally, because I'm so driven and mission orientated. It's very hard not to have a high level of stress when you're operating. So anything that I can do to lower my stress levels, while still operating at a really high performance level, I’m into. That's the breath work. That's the meditation. That's the getting the sunshine that's having my little breaks, it's having my social time, all of those things that I've had to learn to prioritize along the way as well. Yeah, but again, I'm getting off topic. Oh, I've just lost your—

Cyndi: I'm using my shop in the background. You're saying the right thing. We do know, and you've already mentioned, and that's epigenetics. So what is happening above the gene that turns the gene on or off? There's nutrigenomics? Yeah. What is the food that turns a gene on and off? There's also metabologenomics, which is, what are the metabolites are made by your microbiome, which you are 90% genetically microbiome? What are the metabolites that are being made by the microbiome that are turning my genes off? What is the- like in nutrigenomics? I love it, because we know that when we go into a state of ketosis, that we're not only changing the metabolism of the brain and what energy the body uses, but we're actually affecting genes being turned on and off from glutamate together.

So these are the things that we are affecting as a result of just manipulating food, that's natural dynamics. Now, when manipulate what's happening in our body, with as far as the microbiome, if you go for a walk in the woods, and you come against some spore based bacteria, so such as bacillus, though you will breathe it in, you will touch it because you touched a tree, or a rock, or you've dug down into the dirt for some reason, or whatever, you will get this and it has the ability to increase your good bacteria in your microbiome. It can decrease the bad bacteria. This is going out into nature, we've shown this.

If you go gardening in a really good soil, you pick up a certain soil based bacteria that actually improves your serotonin and will give you a feeling of calm and helps in mental illness, there’s psychobiotics out there that we know that certain ones improve serotonin, some improved dopamine, others GABA others noradrenaline. So we have this thing called metabologenomics now, where it switches it, you're not going down the excitatory path of good mind, but you’re going down the calming path of GABA just by manipulating your microbes. And that is nature, breathing as you know, both you and I love our breathwork. Sunshine does it.

So we are giving our evolutionary body the ingredients it needs to be the best. When you do not do this and you stay in a city. You never get out into nature, you don't see the sunshine, you've got screen on. You've lost those ingredients that the body has had cues for for 400,000 plus years. We're not an modern body we're still evolutionary.

Lisa: Our DNA is old.

Cyndi: We’ll never survive on the lifestyle that this modern world is giving us. We can still live in a modern world, don't get me wrong. But we have to let the body know that it can have these other ingredients. So hiking, you know like it's one of my favorite things to do is put a backpack on and go hiking for five or six days. Or nobody sees me no WiFi. And if that's not your bag, go out for the day. Go into a park. If you're in Auckland, you know go to what's beautiful for Cornwall Park. Pet the cows and the sheep. Just go breathe that beautiful old trees in.

Lisa: This is just so basic, isn't it? You know I lost my dad recently and people know the story a little bit. But he was 81 years old. My dad was unfortunately a smoker and that's what brought him in. I could never stop him smoking and that's what ended up being his demise but he was every day all day in the garden, out in the sunshine working physically hard, and he was 81 years old. Apart from what happened to him, which was an aneurysm of the stomach. So he had arthroscopic sclerosis from smoking, but he was powerful, strong, he was exhausted, at the end of the day, he would sleep fine, he had a natural rhythm to his life: get up, work hard, eat probably too much. And not always the best things, smoke way too much. But he had this natural rhythm and he worked all day. He was in the garden all day, and his hands were always dirty, and his feet always planted on the ground. And I really think that's why he got to 81 despite having smoked for 55 years, which is a disaster, obviously.

He probably would have carried on for another, 20 or 30 years, if he hadn't had that unfortunate thing, because he lived in this natural rhythm. He was strong, powerful and fit, despite all of the stuff that he was doing wrong, but just that natural rhythm. I saw this, and I was like, wow. We are artificially stuck indoors, stuck sitting, stuck in front of screens, we need to make time to go out, have that sunshine, get that vitamin D. This is science now, like a lot of the stuff that ancient traditions were telling us to do. Everyone’s that's all woowoo and eerie theory, and there's no proof. Now science is starting to bring this proof out. That's really exciting for me, because then we start to see that these guys were right, there is acupressure pressure points and there is negative and positive ionization.

There is all of these things that people have known for centuries, and, you know, millennia sometimes, and our old DNA just cannot survive if we are only in this artificial environment, not going to do well, we're going to be going backwards in our longevity, when we actually should be going forward. We've gone forward up until now, because we've had incredible surgeries and people know about germs and we've done some brilliant things. But if we can combine that knowledge of nature in our ancient DNA, and anthropology and all of that sort of stuff, and then combine it with the knowledge that we have today, there's the power. Because I truly think that within the next 20 years, we're going to be seeing people living much longer lives, like I don't think that you are going to retire anytime soon, like your average 60 year old would have done 20 years ago, now that's lifting up, right. Then by the time you are ready to retire, it will probably be 150. You know, because that's what's coming at us, the change that's coming is just phenomenal. If we can keep ourselves well enough, in the meantime, to benefit from all this knowledge that's coming down the line.

Cyndi: Yeah, and the longevity is important. But the wellness is also important, as you said, because most people been 15 years of their life, and that's the last 15 years of their life, in a chronic condition or with some disability of some sort. So if we can change that, by what we're doing. We've seen ancient cultures. And it has shown that these ancient cultures, as long as they got past the age of five, they could live to 100 110 120, the body is able to do that. It's just that back in those days, the problem was pregnancy right through to the age of five. But once you got past that, the ability to get to 100 was here.

We are now past that point. We can get most people past the age of five. Although, in chronic condition. That's what's scary is that they're going to have that chronic condition. And they're going to be beholden to the drug companies and beholden to the medical profession for the rest of their lives. I don't have a problem with the medical profession and the medications that they use, because they are life saving at times. But what's happened is that mechanism, which is you have a heart problem, go to your cardiologist, let's not look at your gut or you're leaving your son or anything like that. Let's just check out your heart. Oh, you've got this take that drug, you know.

So that mechanism has taken over from the vitalism which is ‘Hey, let's check your whole lifestyle out. Let's see what you're doing what you're eating, your son, your connections, everything like that. Let's start changing them before we need to go down the route of mechanism’. Vitalism is prevention. But where mechanism is needed is when, like, let's just say you've been in a car accident, you've broken a leg, get to the hospital, you don't get them asking you about your lifestyle. Fix your leg. So they're both important. It's just that mechanism has taken over from this very natural, holistic vitalistic way of living. If we go back to that, then the need for emergency care is going to get less and less or chronic diseases. We’ll have acute problems that we might need another.

This is where I'd love to see the narrative go at the moment and I'm watching your prime minister, as well as my prime minister. They haven’t said a thing about this. All they're doing is social distance, lockdowns, masks that don't work, the vaccine, that's the narrative. What happened, what, 15 months ago, just imagine this, that both our prime ministers said, right, we're shutting down McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken, all foods that have got crap in it, we're stopping the genetic modification of any food coming into our country, because you're lucky you don't grow genetically modified foods. Stop all of that, we're going to give you the time to go out and exercise and to give you money to go out and do this and get sunshine and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If they've done that, can you imagine the state of health in New Zealand and Australia at the moment? It would be incredible.

Lisa. That would not be appropriate. You will be pissing off a lot of big companies. And this is what you know, people need to understand, like we tend to think, and like, you know, don't get me wrong, I have a lot of fantastic doctors and things and scientists and things that I work with, who I love, and we need doctors and so on. But the narrative is that they have all of the answers and that they are the only people that have the answers. That isn't necessarily the truth. There are big powers at play. I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist when I say that, and that's a word that people use in order to label you and discredit you.

But let's look at what is actually going on. Like in this case with the vaccine, I don't want to go into whether we should do it or shouldn't do it. But do you understand the forces behind this? The money that's involved in this? If I go to a used car salesman, he's gonna sell me that car and tell me the best things of it because he's got a vested interest in it. The pharmaceutical companies have a vested interest in promoting their products. And this is not to say whether that's right or wrong, make your you know, your own decisions. I'm doing certainly doing my research, I certainly have my own belief system. But I know that if I talk too much about what I think, then I'm gonna get taken off here for starters, because censorship is real. Then the second thing is that there is big powerful forces at play here. It's not even like our government sitting there and deciding to do evil things. It's just the power and the mechanism behind it, and the way institutions are set up and the way it's all set up. That is leading to some really, really scary things happening out there without going into the weeds on it too much.

Cyndi: When you say conspiracy theorists, it's just you live in a different paradigm. So your paradigm is about questioning. It's about being inquisitive. It's about, you know, that food and sunshine and vitamin D, and all of those things are important for your health. Whereas what we've been taught for the last, I don't know, 30 40 years on television advertising is this. If you're not feeling well take a pill, keep marching on, don't stay at home, you can do this. Life's too short, let's do this. So that's been what people have been taught. Now they're saying the exact opposite. They're going ‘If you're not well stay home’. Which one do we go with?

I think, when you're in the paradigm of empowerment, as opposed to the paradigm of non-empowerment, which is, my belief is what's happening at the moment is that most people feel very unempowered and they're scared of a virus that’s invisible, and they're listening to the government rather than going, ‘Hang on. Something's a bit fishy here. If Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine have proven to work. Why do we make 7 billion people with a vaccine? Why does somebody who has 0.005% chance of dying from Coronavirus which is our young people? Why? Why is this experimental vaccine being pushed on them?’

When you live in the paradigm of questioning as opposed to the paradigm of trusting. Trust is important at times and hope and faith and all of those things. But if you are putting your faith into what is happening out there at the moment, I really feel there's going to be some regrets. They're already saying, like in Europe at the moment, I think I saw the death toll from the vaccine alone is 12 to 16,000. I just saw it last night.

Lisa: And that’s not reported correctly, of course.

Cyndi: No, and they say that’s 1% of what's really happening. In America, it's around 12. Australia, it's... what’s the number in Australia was it like, four or five hundred. But that's the death, that's not hospitalizations. That's not anything like that.

Lisa: And that's not the long term situation. We don't even know the autoimmune or anything.

Cyndi: It's a completely experimental thing. I don't want to be part of that experiment, just to be part of the food industry's experiment or some drug industry experiment. I'm going to choose and be empowered enquire decide my fate. And if I've done the wrong thing, then that's my fault. I'm not going to blame anybody else. That's my fault that I have made this decision.

Lisa: I'm trying to get Robert Malone on. He's on the podcast, I have to send you a link to an interview with Rob Malone in Britain, Weinstein. And another guy, Steve Kirsch, I think his name was. And it's all around the whole ivermectin, reboxetine. This guy's the creator of mRNA. vaccines, like he knows, he was the dude who created the technology, and he's going ‘Don’t do it’. You know? So? This is a guy who advises the FDA, who is telling the FDA that this spike protein is alive, it's biologically active, and so on, and so forth. I mean, all I can say people is, please do your homework, I'm going to tell you which way you know, just do your homework. And I've seen the censorship that's going on.

Cyndi: You can't see things unless you are directly linked with them. So you're going out doing your homework, and they're all being censored. If there's medical doctors, scientists that are going ‘Hang on, something's happening here’. Even the Vice President of Pfizer, the ex-vice president of Pfizer, is questioning what is happening? In an interview with Dell Bigtree that’s worth listening to. And he's just going, I loved working with Pfizer, this is what we do. But what's happening now, I'm really concerned about and he just goes through the whole thing as it unfolded for him as an ex Vice President, and a wise scientist.

Lisa: These are not people you wanna ignore.

Cyndi: We have to question everything. Let's question our food supply. That's where I guess we started was, it's really important that you realize that those who control food, control the people, and if you want to be in control of yourself, you need to be the controller of where your food is coming from. Be very particular about who's growing your food, where it's coming from, is there terminated state technology in the food that you're consuming? Are you consuming genetically modified grown products and genetically modified, like synthetic biology products? So once you're aware of it, you can never unknow this. And then I'm very aware of it, and then you start to go. ‘I'm not going to be part of that experiment’.

Morgellons is a perfect example. Perfect example. What happens when that natural vanilla flavoring microbe comes out with a citric acid? So it made me become more acidic? I don't know. I don't know. And they don't know. They don’t know either. We have to become strong with our microbiome and so that our microbiome can resist these bacteria. And I think that that's our only hope. Being 10% human and 90% microbe, you have to protect your microbes, or safety assessment on all chemicals, all food additives are only done on the human cells, not on the microbes.

Now that safety assessment started in 1997, we know better, we should be changing safety assessment of chemicals. Glyphosate is a really good example. One, this one is a really good example. It's a painted antibiotic, if it's in your food supply, if it's if you're breathing it in, if you're using it in any way and there are 95 registered products in New Zealand, 596 registered products in Australia. So if you're using one of them with glyphosate, you need to dispose of it. What I would do is I would put it into a plastic bottle, I put the lid on it and I get rid of it some way that it could not be punctured. It's plastic. It's gonna be there for 1000s and 1000s of years.

Lisa: That was selling in their local hobby stores, everywhere. People are still using Roundup in their own gardens and have no idea what it's doing to our microbiome. In our food supply, you know, it's right throughout. It's that's really frightening because sometimes you can't even not have glyphosate. I had Dr. David Minkoff on the show, and he said, he's been testing every one of his patients for the last 20 years. If they have glyphosate poisoning, he's yet to find somebody who isn't hasn't, you know, that's pretty horrific. Their vitamin D statistics are going down and he believes his hypothesis is that glyphosate is one of the reasons that we're not processing our vitamin D or converting our vitamin D properly anymore, and that that's why that's going down quite strongly as well. So we don't know exactly.

Cyndi: Mental illnesses increasing because the bugs that it's killing—

Lisa: Creating the serotonin in their gut.

Cyndi: They create the precursors, like it's just, and folic acid, you notice that folic acid in 2009, was it nine, yeah 2009, was now been fortified in our breakfast cereals and our flowers because we were lacking in folic acid. Well, we've been using a lot since the 70s. But in food since the 90s. And then in the desiccation process, which New Zealand does, I have done the research on that. So the desiccation process means that they're anything like sweet potato, potato, any anything that's leafy, like grains, or legumes that have been grown in New Zealand can have a desiccation process done to it, which is Roundup, glyphosate. So it kills all the riffraff so that harvesting is easier. But then it goes into our food, and then we eat it. Like you said, you've got a doctor that he has tested everybody, and it's just like—

Lisa: Yeah, it's everywhere. You know, we're all poisoned with this stuff. And so there's lots. Yeah. So very well, couldn't we, we could, we certainly need to get together on a private basis here. But I don't want to, I want to be respectful of your time. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Being a part of this movement, we're part of the same force, we've got different areas of expertise and you've taught me an awful lot today. I'm just like, ‘Well, a new direction to go and oh, my God, I'm going to be studying even more’.

Cyndi: Just read my book, you'll be fine.

Lisa: Exactly. I will be reading your book. So tell us again, the name of the book, where to get it, where to get your website. So you know, all the sort of stuff that we need to know

Cyndi: Lab to Table is the book. There are two websites, it's Changing Habits. So it's either.co.nz or .com.au that I use. But I also have my Academy, so my 12 month education course, which is the thenutrition.academy. If you just go to that, or just look up the Nutrition Academy and make sure my name is there as well, send me an email, you will come to that and you'll see the education that we're doing. We do have an August intake and their August intake. It's like I saw what the girls put up. And like normally, it's about $5,000 to do the 12 month course, an early bird special on the intake is 3300 Australian dollars.

If you've got American dollars or pounds, you're right, you've got a cheaper than the Australian dollar fee even at the moment. But this will help you go through the process of understanding an anthropological process and vitalistic process. Then with that lens, understanding food. Once you have your philosophy, you don't fall for everything. You'll understand carnivore, vegan, paleo, keto, and where they stand in our history and which one is best for you. Instead of going, ‘Oh, this celebrity is doing vegan, I should be doing vegan, it's going to save the planet’, you will actually understand the real narrative behind the vegan movement, which I have to tell you is dangerous. But it is vegetarian: okay. Vegan: not. You’ll learn all of that stuff and that's just in one module of 12 modules. So I love my Nutrition Academy. I love my students. I love teaching them. It's just my greatest love. And like you said, I don't know what you see. Being that new, educating people I'll do probably right into my 70s and then I might find out from my grandbabies.

Lisa: Yeah, you’ll probably do even longer than that. Cyndi, you've been wonderful. I really respect you. I think you're amazing. I'm so glad that our mutual friend introduced us Thanksgiving. Epic. We'll just keep this momentum going. I think I have lots more to learn from you and I can't wait to go and grab that book. Thank you very much for your time today Cyndi.

That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how to develop a growth mindset to keep yourself young and healthy, regardless of your chronological age. 2. Understand why you need to manage your energy and plan fun and laughter into your life. 3. Discover the ways you can change your mindset around pain.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Listen to other Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + #60: Ian Walker - Paraplegic Handbiker - Ultra Distance Athlete + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #188: Awareness and Achieve High Performance with Craig Harper + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Connect with Craig: Website | Instagram | Linkedin * Interested to learn more from Craig? You can check out his books and his podcast, The You Project. * T: The Story of Testosterone by Carole Hooven * Mind Over Medicine by Lissa Rankin M.D. * Lifespan - Why We Age and Why We Don't Have To by David A. Sinclair PhD * Neuroscience professor Andrew Huberman's Instagram * Dr Rhonda Patrick's website * A new program, BoostCamp, is coming this September at Peak Wellness!

Episode Highlights [06:50] A Growth Mindset Keeps Us Young and Healthy * It's helpful to take advantage of the availability of high-level research and medical journals online. * If you’re prepared to do the hard work, you can learn anything. * Learning and exposing ourselves to new things are crucial parts of staying young and healthy. * Age is a self-created story. * With a growth mindset, you can change how your body and mind works so that you feel younger than your real age.

[12:23] Develop a Growth Mindset * It's vital to surround yourself with people with the same mindset — people who drag you up, not down. * You can also get a similar experience by exposing yourself to good ideas and stories. * Be aware of what you’re feeding your mind, on top of what you’re feeding your body. * School is not a marker of your intelligence. Your academic failures do not matter. * With a growth mindset, you can keep growing and learning.

[17:40] Let Go and Be Happy * People tend to have career and exercise plans, but not a fun plan. * We can't be serious all the time — we also need time to have fun and laugh. * Laughter can impact and improve the immune system. Laughing can change the biochemistry of your brain. * Plan for the future, but also learn to live in the now. * Having a growth mindset is important, but so is finding joy and enjoyment.

[23:31] Look After Your Energy * Having fun and resting can impact your energy and emotional system. * These habits can help you work faster than when you’re just working all the time. * Remember, volume and quality of work are different.

[30:24] Work-Life Balance * Many people believe that they need to balance work and life. However, when you find your passion, it's just life. * Even doing 20 hours of work for a job you hate is worse than 40 hours of doing something you love. * There’s no one answer for everyone. * Everything is a lot more flexible than before. Find what works for you.

[35:56] Change the Way You Think * It’s unavoidable that we think a certain way because of our upbringing. * Start to become aware of your lack of awareness and your programming. * Learn why you think of things the way you do. Is it because of other people? * Be influenced by other people, but test their ideas through trial and error. Let curiosity fuel your growth mindset. * Listen to the full podcast to learn how Craig learned how to run his gym without a business background!

[44:18] Sharing Academic Knowledge * Academics face many restrictions due to the nature and context of their work. * He encourages the academic community to communicate information to everyone, not just to fellow researchers. * He plans to publish a book about his PhD research to share what he knows with the public. * Science is constantly changing. We need to keep up with the latest knowledge.

[50:55] Change Your Relationship with Pain * There is no simple fix to chronic pain. * The most you can do is change your relationship and perception of pain. * Our minds are powerful enough to create real pain even without any physical injury. * Listen to Craig and Lisa’s stories about how our minds affect our pain in the full episode!

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘My mind is the CEO of my life. So I need to make sure that as much as I can, that I'm managing my mind, and my mental energy optimally.’

‘If you're listening to this, and you didn't succeed in the school system, that means absolutely nothing when you're an adult.’

‘We're literally doing our biology good by laughing.’

‘Living is a present tense verb, you can't living in the future, and you can't live in the future.’

‘Often, more is not better. Sometimes more is worse. So there's a difference between volume of work and output and quality of work.’

‘It's all about those people just taking one step at a time to move forward... That growth mindset that I think is just absolutely crucial.’

About Craig Craig Harper is one of Australia's leading educators, speakers, and writers in health and self-development. He has been an integral part of the Australian health and fitness industry since 1982. In 1990, he established a successful Harper's Personal Training, which evolved into one of the most successful businesses of its kind.

He currently hosts a successful Podcast called 'The You Project'. He is also completing a neuropsychology PhD, studying the spectrum of human thinking and behaviour. Craig speaks on various radio stations around Australia weekly. He currently fills an on-air role as a presenter on a lifestyle show called 'Get a Life', airing on Foxtel.

Want to know more about Craig and his work? Check out his website, or follow him on Instagram and Linkedin!

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how to develop a growth mindset.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits with Lisa Tamati. This week I have Craig Harper. He is really well known in Australia. He's a broadcaster, a fitness professional, a PhD scholar, an expert on metacognition, and self-awareness. And we get talking on all those good topics today and also neuro-psycho-immunology, very big word. Really interesting stuff; and we get talking about laughter, we get talking about pain management. We sort of go all over the show in this episode, which I sometimes do on this show. I hope you enjoy this very insightful and deep conversation with Craig Harper.

Before we head over to the show, I just want to let you know that Neil and I at Running Hot Coaching have launched a new program called Boost Camp. Now, this will be starting on the first of September and we're taking registrations now. This is a live eight-week program, where you'll basically boost your life. That's why it's called Boost Camp. not boot camp, Boost Camp. This is all about upgrading your body, learning how to help your body function at its base, learning how your mindset works, and increasing your performance, your health, your well-being and how to energise your mind and your body. In this Boost Camp, we're going to give you the answers you need in a simple, easy-to-follow process using holistic diagnostic tools and looking at the complete picture.

So you're going to go on a personalised health and fitness journey that will have a really life-changing effect on your family and your community. We're going to be talking about things like routine and resilience, mental resilience, which is a big thing that I love to talk about, and how important is in this time of change, in this time of COVID, where everything's upside down, and how we should be all building time and resources around building our resilience and energising our mind and body. We're going to give you a lot of health fundamentals. Because the fundamentals are something simple and easy to do, it means that you probably aren't doing some of the basics right, and we want to help you get there.

We're going to give you the answers you need in a simple, sort of easy, process. So we are now in a position to be able to control and manage all of these stressors and these things that are coming at us all the time, and we want to help you do that in the most optimal manner. So check out what boost camp is all about. Go to www.peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp. I'll say that again, peakwellness.co.nz/boostcamp, boost with a B-O-O-S-T, boost camp. We hope to see you over there! Right, now over to the show with Craig Harper.

Well, hi everyone and welcome to Pushing the Limits! Today, I have someone who is a special treat for you who has been on the show before. He's an absolute legend, and I love him to bits. Craig half and welcome to the show mate, how are you doing?

Craig Harper: Hi Lisa! I’m awesome but you're not.

Lisa: No I'm a bit of a miss, people. I’ve got shingles, a horrible, horrible virus that I advise nobody to get.

Craig: What it— do we know what that’s made? What causes it, or is it idiopathic as they say?

Lisa: Yeah, no, it is from the chickenpox virus. Although, I've never, ever had that virus. So I'm like heck how, you know, it's related to the cold sore virus and all of that, which I definitely have had often. So it sits on the spinal cord, these little viruses, dormant and then one day when your immune systems are down, it decides to attack and replicate and go hard out. So yeah, that'll be the down for the count now for two and a half weeks. In a lot of pain, but—

Craig: What is it like nerve pain or what kind of pain is it?

Lisa: Yes, it's nerve pain. So this one's actually, it hits different nerves in different people, depending on where it decides to pop out. My mum had the femoral nerve, which is one that goes right down from the backbone, quite high up on the backbone, down across the back and then down through the hip flexor and down the leg. I've got all these horrible looking sores, I look like a burn victim all the way down my leg and across my back. And it comes out through the muscles of your like, through the nerves and nerve endings and causes these blisters on top of the skin but it's the nerve pain that's really horrible because there's no comfortable position. There's no easy way to lie or sit and of course, when you're lying at night, it's worse. It's worse at nighttime than in the day. So I learned a lot about shingles. And as usual, we're using these obstacles to be a learning curve.

Craig: Why on earth are you doing a bloody podcast? You should be relaxing.

Lisa: You're important, you see. I had, you know, I had this appointment with you, and I honour my appointments, and I—

Craig: Definitely not important. What's the typical treatment for shingles?

Lisa: Well, actually, I wish I'd known this two weeks ago, I didn't know this, but I just had a Zoom call with Dave Asprey, you know, of Bulletproof fame, who is one of my heroes, and he's coming on the show, people, shortly. So that's really exciting. He told me to take something called BHT, butylated hydroxytoluene, which is a synthetic antioxidant. They actually use them in food additives, they said that kills that virus. So I'm like, ‘Right, get me some of that.’ But unfortunately, I was already, it's— I only got it just yesterday, because I had to wait for the post. So I'm sort of hoping for a miracle in the next 24 hours.

Also, intravenous vitamin C, I've had three of those on lysine, which also helps. One of the funny things, before we get to the actual topic of the day, is I was taking something called L-Citrulline which helps with nitric oxide production and feeds into the arginine pathway. Apparently, while that's a good thing for most people, the arginine, if you have too much arginine in the body, it can lead to replication of this particular virus, which is really random and I only found that out after the fact. But you know, as a biohacker, who experiments sometimes you get it wrong.

Craig: Sometimes you turn left when you should have turned right.

Lisa: Yes. So that, you know, certainly took a lot of digging in PubMed to find that connection. But I think that's maybe what actually set it off. That combined with a pretty stressful life of like—

Craig: It's interesting that you mentioned PubMed because like a lot of people now, you know how people warn people off going Dr Google, you know, whatever, right. But the funny thing is, you can forget Dr Google, I mean, Google's okay. But you can access medical journals, high level— I mean, all of the research journals that I access for my PhD are online. You can literally pretty much access any information you want. We're not talking about anecdotal evidence, and we're not talking about theories and ideas and random kind of junk. We're talking about the highest level research, you literally can find at home now. So if you know how to research and you know what you're looking for, and you can be bothered reading arduous academic papers, you can pretty much learn anything, to any level, if you're prepared to do the work and you know how— and you can be a little bit of a detective, a scientific detective.

Lisa: That is exactly, you know, what I keep saying, and I'm glad you said that because you are a PhD scholar and you are doing this. So you know what you're talking about, and this is exactly what I've done in the last five years, is do deep research and all this sort of stuff. People think that you have to go to university in order to have this education, and that used to be the case. It is no longer the case. We don't have to be actually in medical school to get access to medical texts anymore, which used to be the way. And so we now have the power in our hands to take, to some degree, control over what we're learning and where we're going with this.

It doesn't mean that it's easy. You will know, sifting through PubMed, and all these scholarly Google articles and things in clinical studies is pretty damn confusing sometimes and arduous. But once you get used to that form of learning, you start to be able to sift through relatively fast, and you can really educate yourself. I think having that growth mindset, I mean, you and I never came from an academic background. But thanks to you, I'm actually going to see Prof Schofield next week. Prof Schofield and looking at a PhD, because, I really need to add that to my load. But—

Craig: You know, the thing is, I think in general, and I don't know where you’re gonna go today, but I think in general, like what one of the things that keeps us young is learning and exposing ourselves, our mind and our emotions and for that matter, our body to new things, whether that's new experiences or new ideas, or new information, or new environments, or new people. This is what floats my boat and it keeps me hungry and it keeps me healthy physically, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, creatively, sociologically. It keeps me healthy. Not only does it keep me in a good place, I'm actually at 57, still getting better. You know, and people might wonder about that sometimes.

Of course, there's an inevitability to chronological aging. Clearly, most people at 80 are not going to be anything like they were at 40. Not that I'm 80. But there's— we know now that there's the unavoidable consistency of time as a construct, as an objective construct. But then there's the way that we behave around and relate to time. Biological aging is not chronological aging. In the middle of the inevitability of time ticking over is, which is an objective thing, there's the subject of human in the middle of it, who can do what he or she wants. So, in other words, a 57-year-old bloke doesn't need to look or feel or function or think like a 57-year-old bloke, right?

When we understand that, in many ways, especially as an experience, age is a self-created story for many people. I mean, you've met, I've met and our listeners have met 45-year-olds that seem 70 and 70-year-olds— and we're not talking about acting young, that's not what we're talking about. I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about pretending you're not old or acting young. I'm actually talking about changing the way that your body and your mind and your brain and your emotional system works, literally. So that you are literally in terms of function, similar to somebody or a ‘typical’ person who's 20 or 25 years younger than you. We didn't even know that this used to be possible, but not only is it possible, if you do certain things, it's very likely that that's the outcome you'll create.

Lisa: Yeah, and if you think about our grandparents, and when I think about my Nana at 45 or 50, they were old. When I think about now I'm 52, you're 57, we're going forward, we're actually reaching the peak of our intellectual, well, hopefully not the peak, we’re still going up. Physically, we got a few wrinkles and a few grey hairs coming. But even on that front, there is so much what's happening in the longevity space that my take on it is, if I can keep my shit together for the next 10 years, stuff’s gonna come online that’s gonna help me keep it on for another 20, 30, 40 years.

For me now it's trying to hold my body together as best I can so that when the technology does come, that we are able to meet— and we're accessing some of the stuff now, I mean, I'm taking some of the latest and greatest bloody supplements and biohacking stuff, and actively working towards that, and having this, I think it's a growth mindset. I had Dr Demartini on the show last week, who I love. I think he's an incredible man. His mindset, I mean, he's what nearly, I think he's nearly 70. It looks like he's 40.

He's amazing. And his mind is so sharp and so fast it’ll leave you and I in the dust. He's processing books every day, like, you know, more than a book a day and thinking his mind through and he's distilling it and he's remembering, and he's retaining it, and he's giving it to the world. This is sort of— you know, he's nothing exceptional. He had learning disabilities, for goodness sake, he had a speech impediment, he couldn't read until he was an adult. In other words, he made that happen. You and I, you know, we both did you know, where you went to university, at least when you're younger, I sort of mucked around on a bicycle for a few years. Travelling the world to see it. But this is the beauty of the time that we live in, and we have access to all this. So that growth mindset, I think keeps you younger, both physically and mentally.

Craig: And this is why I reckon it's really important that we hang around with people who drag us up, not down. And that could be you know, this listening to your podcast, of course, like I feel like when I listen to a podcast with somebody like you that shares good ideas and good information and good energy and is a good person, like if I'm walking around, I've literally got my headphones here because I just walked back from the cafe, listening to Joe Rogan's latest podcast with this lady from Harvard talking about testosterone, you'd find it really interesting, wrote a book called T.

When I'm listening to good conversations with good people, I am, one, I'm fascinated and interested, but I'm stimulating myself and my mind in a good way. I'm dragging myself up by exposing myself to good ideas and good thinking, and good stories. Or it might even be just something that's funny, it might— I'm just exposing myself to a couple of dickheads talking about funny shit, right? And I'd spend an hour laughing, which is also therapeutic.

You know, and I think there's that, I think we forget that we're always feeding our mind and our brain something. It's just having more awareness of what am I actually plugging into that amazing thing? Not only just what am I putting in my body, which, of course, is paramount. But what am I putting in, you know, that thing that sits between my ears that literally drives my life? That's my HQ, that's my, my mind is the CEO of my life. So I need to make sure that as much as I can, that I'm managing my mind and my mental energy optimally.

Lisa: Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of people if they didn't do well in the school system, think that, 'Oh, well, I'm not academic therefore I can't learn or continue to learn.' I really encourage people, if you're listening to this, and you didn't succeed in the school system, that means absolutely nothing when you're an adult. The school system has got many flaws, and it didn't cater to everybody. So I just want people to understand that.

You know, just like with Dr Demartini, he taught himself 30 words a day, that's where he started: vocabulary. He taught himself to read and then taught— Albert Einstein was another one, you know, he struggled in school for crying out loud. So school isn't necessarily the marker of whether you're an intelligent human being or not. It's one system and one way of learning that is okay for the average and the masses. But definitely, it leaves a lot of people thinking that they're dumb when they're not dumb.

It's all about those people just taking one step at a time to move forward and becoming, you know, that growth mindset that I think is just absolutely crucial. You talked there about laughter and I wanted to go into that a little bit today too, because I heard you talking on Tiffany, our friend Tiffany’s podcast, and you were talking about how important laughter is for the body, for our minds, for our— and if we laugh a lot, we're less likely to fall victim to the whole adult way of being, which is sometimes pretty cynical and miserable. When you think, what is it? Kids laugh something like 70 times a day and adults laugh I think, six times a day or some statistic. Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit?

Craig: Well, I used to sit down with you know, I don't do much one-on-one coaching anymore, just because I do other stuff. I would sit with people and go, ‘Alright, tell me about your exercise plan and blah, blah, blah. Tell me about your career plan, blah, blah, blah. Tell me about your financial plan, blah, blah, blah.’ Tell me about, you know, whatever. And they have systems and programs and plans for everything.

I would say to them, 'Do you like fun?' And they're like, they look at me like I was a weirdo. 'What do you mean?' I go, 'Well, what do you mean, what do I mean? Like, do you like having fun?’ And they're like, very seriously, like, 'Well, of course, everyone likes having fun.' I go, 'Great. What's your fun plan?' And they go, 'What?' I go, 'What's your fun— like, is laughing and having fun important to you?' 'Yeah, yeah.' 'Okay, what's your fun plan?'

They literally, like this idea of just integrating things into my life, which are for no reason other than to laugh and to have fun. Not to be productive and efficient and to tick more boxes and create more income and elevate output and tick fucking boxes and hit KPIs and you know, just to be silly, just to laugh like a dickhead, just to hang out with your mates or your girlfriends, or whatever it is. Just to talk shit, just to, not everything needs to be fucking deep and meaningful and world-changing. Not everything. In fact, it can't, you know?

Our brain and our body and our emotional system and our nervous system and— it can't work like that we can't be elevated all the time. And so, literally when we are laughing, we're changing the biochemistry of our brain. You know, literally when we are having fun, we're impacting our immune system in a real way through that thing I've probably spoken to you about, psychoneuroimmunology, right? We're literally doing our biology good by laughing and there's got to be, for me, there's got to be, because, like you probably, I have a lot of deep and meaningful conversations with people about hard shit. Like, I'm pretty much a specialist at hard conversations. It's what I do.

But, you know, and, and I work a lot, and I study a lot. Then there needs to be a valve. You can't be all of that all of the time because you're human, you're not a cyborg, you're not a robot. And this hustle, hustle, hustle, grind, work harder, sleep less, you can, you know, you can sleep when you're dead, it's all bullshit. Because, also, yeah, I want to learn and grow and evolve, and I want to develop new skills. But you know what, I want to also, in the moment, laugh at silly shit. I want to be happy and I want to hang out with people I love and I want to be mentally and emotionally and spiritually nourished.

Like, it's not just about acquiring knowledge and accumulating shit that you're probably not going to use. It's also about the human experience now. This almost sounds contradictory. But because of course, we want a future plan and we want goals and all of those, but we're never going to live in the present because when we get there, it's not the present. It's just another installment of now. So when next Wednesday comes, it's not the future, it's now again, because life is never-ending now, right?

It's like you only like, live— living is a present tense verb. You can't living in the future, and you can't live in the future. You cannot. Yes, I know, this gets a little bit, what's the word existential, but the truth is that, yeah, we need to— well, we don't, we can do whatever we want. But I believe we need to be stimulated so we're learning and growing, and we're doing good stuff for our brain and good stuff for our body. But also that we are giving ourselves a metaphoric hug, and going, 'It's all right to lie on your bed and watch Netflix, as long as it's not 20 hours a day, five days a week,' you know. It's okay to just laugh at silly stuff. It's okay, that there's no purpose to doing this thing other than just joy and enjoyment, you know.

I think that people like you and me who are, maybe we would put ourselves in the kind of driven category, right? You and I are no good at this. Like, at times, having fun and just going, ‘I'm going to do fuck all today.’ Because the moment that we do sometimes we start to feel guilty and we start to be like, 'Fuck, I'm not being productive. I've got to be productive.' That, in itself, is a problem for high performance. Like, fuck your high performance, and fuck your productivity today. Be unproductive, be inefficient, and just fucking enjoy it, you know, not— because in a minute, we're going to be dead. We’re going to go, 'But fuck, I was productive. But I had no fun, I never laughed, because I was too busy being important.' Fuck all that.

Lisa: I think both of us have probably come a long way around finding that out. I mean, I used to love reading fiction novels, and then I went, ‘Oh, I can't be reading fiction novels. I've got so many science books that I have to read.’ Here I am, dealing with insomnia at two o'clock in the morning reading texts on nitric oxide, you know. It is this argument that goes on, still in my head if there was an hour where you weren’t learning something, you know, I can't. Because I know that if I go for a big drive or something, and I have to travel somewhere, or going for a long run or something, I've probably digested a book on that road trip or three, or 10 podcasts or something and I've actually oh, I get to the end and I'm like, ‘Well, I achieved something.’ I've got my little dopamine hits all the way through.

Now I’ve sort of come to also understand that you need this time out and you need to just have fun. I'm married to this absolute lunatic of a guy called Haisely O'Leary, who I just love, because all day every day, he is just being an idiot. In the best sense of the word. I come out and I'm grumpy and you know, had a hard day and I'm tired, I'm stressed, and I come out and he's doing a little dance, doing some stupid meme or saying some ridiculous thing to me. I'm just like, you know, I crack up at it. That's the best person to have to be around because they keep being—and I'm like, ‘Come on, stop being stupid, you should be doing this and you shouldn't be doing that.’ Then I hear myself, and I'm like, ‘No, he's got it right.’

Craig: Well, I think he does, in some ways, you know. It's not about all, it's not about one or the other, it's about— and it's recognising that if I look after my energy, and my emotional system, and all of that, I'll get more done in 8 hours than 12 hours when I'm not looking after myself. So more is not better, necessarily. In fact, often, more is not better; sometimes, more is worse. So there's a difference between volume of work and output and quality of work. Also, you know, quality of experience.

I wrote a little thing yesterday, just talking on social media about the fact that I, like all of the things that I do, even study, although it's demanding, but I enjoy it. My job, you know, like, right now you and I do podcasts. I do seven podcasts a week, apart from the ones like this, where I'm being interviewed by someone else, or spoken to by somebody else. My life is somewhat chaotic, but I don't really, in terms of having a ‘job’. Well, one, I don't have a job. I haven't had a job since I was 26. Two, I don't really feel a sense of work, like most people do.

Like the other night, I did a gig. I don't know if you, if I posted a little thing about this on Insta, and I was doing a talk for Hewlett Packard in Spain. Now, how cool is the world? Right? So I'm talking here, right here in my house, you can see, obviously, your listeners can't. But this is not video, is it? Just us? I wish I knew that earlier. Sorry, everyone, I would have brushed my hair. But anyway, you should see my hair by the way. I look like bloody Doc from Back to the Future. Anyway, but I'm sitting in here, I'm sitting in the studio, and I'm about to talk to a few hundred people in Spain, right, which is where, that's where they're all— that's where I was dealing with the people who are organising me to speak.

Just before I'm about to go live at 5:30, the lady who had organised me was texting me. So it's on Zoom. There's already a guy on the screen speaking and then lots of little squares of other humans. I said to her, ‘How many?’ and said, ‘You know, like a few 100.’ I said, ‘Cool.’ I go, ‘Everyone's in Spain,’ and she goes, ‘No, no, we're in Spain, but the audience is around the world.’ And I go, ‘Really? How many countries?’ She goes, ‘38.’ I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, I'm wearing a black t-shirt. I'm wearing my camo shorts. I've got bare feet. I'm talking to hundreds of humans from this big organisation in 38 countries, and I'm talking about the stuff that I am passionate about, right? I don't have to do any prep, because it's my default setting. I'm just talking. I had to talk for an hour and a half about high performance. Well, giddy up, that's like an hour and a half of breathing. You know?

I just had such fun, and I had this moment, Lisa, halfway through, I don't know, but about halfway through, where I'm like, I remember growing up in a paradigm where pretty much when I was a kid everyone went and got a job and you went, you became a cop or you sold clothes, or you're a bricky or sparky or you’re some kind of tradie. A few of my super smart friends went to university. That was way over my head, I'm like, ‘Fuck university.’ But there was literally about 50 jobs in the world. You know, it's like there was only 50 jobs, and everyone or nearly everyone fitted into one of those 50. There was a few other ones but for the most part, nearly everyone fitted into about 50 jobs. I'm sitting there going— I won't say what but I'm earning pretty good money. I'm sitting in bare feet in my house talking to humans around the world about this stuff that I want to tell everyone about anyway.

I do it for free on my podcast and your podcast and I do it anyway. I have this great time, it's a really good experience. Then I finish at 7 pm. Then I walk 15 feet into the kitchen and put the kettle on and check my messages.

Lisa: No commuting, no travelling, no flying.

Craig: I’m like, ‘How is this a job?’ I'm like, ‘How is this real?’ ‘This is a scam. I'm scamming everybody.’ Like, how great is 2021? I know there's a lot of shit going on and I'm not trying to be insensitive, and it's smashed my business too. All of my live events for 2020 got kicked in the dick in two weeks, right? I got financially annihilated, but you just go, ‘Oh well, improvise, adapt, overcome and figure shit out.’ But, I think when you can have it and a lot of people and it's a very well-worn kind of idea. But when you're, what you love, and what you're curious about, and how you make a few bucks, when that can all collide, then life is a different thing. Then there's not work and life, there's just life.

You know, and so when we talk about this idea of work-life balance, you know, it's like the old days that talk about that a lot. And it's like, almost like there was some seesaw, some metaphoric seesaw with work on one side and life on the other. And when you get balance like that— because what happens, think about this, if we're just basing it on numbers, like all 40 hours of work versus however many hours of non-work or however many hours of recreation and recovery. But if you're doing even 20 hours of a job that you hate, that's going to fuck you up. That's gonna, that's gonna mess with you physically, mentally, and emotionally. That's going to be toxic; that's going to be damaging; that's going to be soul-destroying, versus something else like me studying 40 hours a week, working 40, 50 hours a week doing 90 in total, depending on the week and loving it, and loving it. And going, ‘I feel better than I've ever felt in my life.’

I still train every day, and I still, I live 600-800 metres from the beach, I still walk to the beach every day, you know. And I still hang out with my friends. You know, it's like, it doesn't have to be this cookie-cutter approach. The beauty I think of life, with your food, with your lifestyle, with your career, with your relationships with the way that you learn, like the way that you do business, everything now is so much more flexible, and optional than any time ever before that we can literally create our own blueprint for living.

Lisa: Yeah. And then it's not always easy. And sometimes it takes time to get momentum and stuff. Being, both you and I have both said before we're unemployable. Like, I'm definitely not someone you want to employ, because I'm just always going to run my own ship. I've always been like that, and that's the entrepreneurial personality. So not everyone is set up for that personality-wise. So you know, we're a certain type of people that likes to run in a certain type of way. And we need lots of other people when doing the other paths.

There is this ability now to start to change the way you think about things. And this is really important for people who are unhappy in where they're at right now. To think, ‘Hang on a minute. I've been I don't know, policeman, teacher, whatever you’ve been, I don't want to be there anymore. Is there another me out there? Is there a different future that I can hit?’ The answer is yes, if you're prepared to put in the work, and the time, and the effort, the looking at understanding and learning, the change, being adaptable, the risk-taking, all of those aspects of it. Yes, but there is ways now that you can do that where they weren't 30 years ago, when I came out of school I couldn't be, I was going to be an accountant. Can you imagine anything worse than that?

Craig: Hi, hi. Shout out to all our account listeners, we love you and we need you.

Lisa: I wasn't that— Academically that's I was good at it. But geez, I hated it. And I did it because of parental pushing direction. Thank goodness, I sort of wake up to that. And you know, after three years. I had Mark Commander Mark Devine on the show. He's a Navy SEAL, man. You have to have him on the show. I'll hook you up. He's just a buck. He became an accountant before he became a Navy SEAL and now he's got the best of both worlds really, you know, but like you couldn't get more non-accountant than Mark Devine. We all go into the things when we leave school that we think we're meant to be doing. And they're not necessarily— and I think you know, the most interesting 50 year-olds still don't know what the hell they want to be when they grow up.

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You know, I'm still in that camp.

Craig: You raise a really interesting point too, and that is programming and conditioning. And, you know, because we all grow up being programmed, one way or consciously or not, we grow— if you grow up around people, you're being programmed. So that's not a bad thing. That's an unavoidable human thing. So, situation, circumstance, environment, school, family, friends, media, social media, all of that stuff shapes the way that we see the world and shapes the way that we see ourselves.

When you grow up in a paradigm that says, ‘Okay, Lisa, when you finish school, you have to go to university, or you have to get a job, or you have to join the family business, or you have to work on our farm,’ or whatever it is, you grow up in that. You're taught and told and trained. And so you don't question that, you know. And for me, I grew up in the 70s, I finished in the 80s. I finished school in 1981. And I grew up in the country, and most people go to trade or most people worked in logging or on a farm or— and I would say about five in 100 of the kids that I did— by the way, doing year 12 was a pretty big deal in that time.

‘Geez, are you a brainiac?’ Definitely wasn't a brainiac. But year 12 is a big thing now. Now, even if you have an undergrad degree that it's almost nothing really enough. It's like, you kind of got to go get honours, or masters or maybe even a PhD down the track. And that landscape has really changed. So it's just changing again to— you know, and I think to become aware— like this is for me, I love it; this is my shit; this is what I love— is starting to become aware of our lack of awareness. And starting to become aware of my own programming and go, ‘Oh, I actually think this. Why not? Because this is how I naturally think about, because this is how I've been trained to think about work. I've been trained to or programmed to think this way about money, or relationships, or marriage, or eating meat, or being a Catholic or being an atheist or voting liberal law,’ or whatever it is, right.

Not that any of those things are good or bad, but it's not about how I eat or how I vote or how I worship. It's about how I think. And is this my thinking? Or is this just a reflection of their thinking, right? So when we open the door on metacognition now we start to become aware of our own stories, and where they come from. And this is where I think we really start to take control of our own life, and our own present, and our own future that doesn't exist, by the way, but it will, but it won't be the present.

Then, we start to write our own story with our own voice, not our parents’ voice, not our friends’, not our peers’ voice, you know. And we're always going to be influenced by other people. Of course. Just like people are influenced by you and your podcast, and your stories, and your thinking, and your lessons for them. They're influenced. But I always say to people, ‘Don't believe me because you like me. Listen to me, if you like me and consider what I say. If what I say sounds reasonable for you, maybe a good idea to test drive, take that idea for a test drive, and see if that works for you, because it might not.’ Right?

I think, I really encourage people to learn for themselves and to listen to their own internal wisdom that's always talking. So listen to smart people. I don't know if Lisa and I are in that category, Lisa is, listen to her. But at the same time, do your own, learning through exploration and trial and error, and personal kind of curiosity and drive.

For me, I opened my first gym at 26; first personal training centre in Australia, there weren't any. I'd never done a business course, I've never done an admin course, I knew nothing about marketing. I knew nothing about employees. I knew nothing. But I learned more in one year than I would say, most people would learn in five years at university studying business, because I was in the middle of it, and I was going to sink or swim. So in one year, I started a business and I acquired overwhelming knowledge and skill because I had to, because of the situation. But that was all learning through doing.

The way that you've learned, you know you said earlier that, like, a lot of people think that they're not academic; therefore, they're not smart. Some of the smartest people I've ever met, and I don't— and this not being patronising, but like, mind-blowingly brilliant, how they think, live outside of academia. One of the reasons some people are so brilliant outside of academia is because they're not forced into an echo chamber of thought. They’re living outside the academic paradigm, where we're not trying to restrict how you think or write or speak. There are no rules out here. So there's no intellectual inhibition.

Lisa: Yeah, I love that.

Craig: When you do a PhD, like me, and I can separate the two, thankfully. But there's a way of communicating and writing in PhD land, which is incredibly restrictive because of the scientific process, which is fine, I get that. But it's having an awareness of— this is what I'm often talking to my supervisors about is, yes, I'm studying this thing, which is deep, deep neuropsychology, and everything, the way that you do your research, get your data or interpret your data. The whole process of creating new science, which is what you're doing as a PhD, creating, bringing something new into the world. That's one thing. But you write your journal articles, which is my PhD process, you get them, hopefully, you get them published in academic resources and magazines. But then, I don't want that to be it. I'm going to write a book when I finish about all of my research totally in layman's terms so that people can use the knowledge, so that people can— because that's the value.

For me handing in some papers and going, ‘Oh, Craig Harper is an academically published author.’ That's cool, but it's not— and I'm so respectful of people who have had hundreds of things published, but that doesn't blow my socks off. I'm not really— like that's a real, you really hang your hat on that in academia. Oh, how many things he or she had published, publications, which is cool. They're all smarter than me. But I'm not. I'm like, yeah, that that's cool. But I want to connect with the masses, not the few. Also, by the way, people who read academic papers, they raise it— they're reading it generally, just like I am right now, for a specific reason which relates to their own research. There ain't too many people like you. You're one of the rare ones who just thumb through fucking academic journals to make your life better.

Lisa: Yeah. And it's just some real goals. So you've got the wisdom of having lived outside of academia and being a pracademic, as Paul Taylor says, and then actually seeing the pre— and this is a discussion that I had when I was talking to someone about doing a PhD and they say, ‘But then you're going to become a part of the establishment, and you're going to be forced into this box.’ And I said, ‘No, not necessarily because it's— I can see where you're coming from. But you can take that, because you have that maturity and that life experience and you can fit yourself into the box that you have to fit into in order to get those things done. That research done, but you don't have to stay there.’

That's what you know, one of my things has been, I don't want to spend however many years doing a PhD, and then that's not out on the world. To me that that needs to be taken out of the academic journals, wherever you go to publish, and then put out into a book or something that where it's actually shared, like you say, with the masses, because otherwise, it just collects dust like your MA does, or your whatever, you know, that sits on your bookshelf, and how you got hey, your exam your piece of paper, but you didn't actually do anything with it.

Of course, lots of people do their thing, they're going like they're in research, and they're furthering research and so on. But I— my approach, I think yours is too, is to be able to communicate that information that you've learned, and then share it with everyone, so that they can actually benefit from it, and not just the people that are in academia. The other thing I see after interviewing hundreds of doctors and scientists and people is that they are, actually, the more specialised they are, the more inhibited they are by what they can and can't say.

While they need to be doing that because they need to protect what they are doing in their studies and what they're allowed to and what they're not allowed to do and say, it also is very inhibiting, and they don't get the chance to actually express what they would actually like to say. That's a bit of a shame, really, because you don't get to hear the real truth in the qualifying everything flat stick.

Craig: I reckon you're exactly right. But they don't need to be that. And the reason that a lot of academics are like that is because they get their identity and sense of self-worth from being an academic. They're way more worried about three of their peers hearing something that might not be 100% accurate, and then being reprimanded or, rather than just going— look, I always say to my academic, super academic friends, when I talk with them, not everything that comes out of your mouth needs to be research-based. You can have an idea and an opinion. In fact, I want to hear your ideas and opinions.

Lisa: You're very educated.

Craig: You know, that's the— and as for the idea of you becoming an academic, No, you go, you do your thing you study, you learn the protocol, the operating system, and you do that you go through that process, but you're still you. Right, and there's— you and I both know, there are lots of academics who have overcome that self-created barrier like Andrew Huberman.

Lisa: Yeah, who we love.

Craig: Who we love, who, for people listening, he’s @hubermanlab on Insta, and there's quite a few academics now, like the one that I spoke on before, on Joe Rogan. She's a Harvard professor, she's a genius, and she's just having a— it's a three-hour conversation with Rogan, about really interesting stuff.

There's been a bit of a shift, and there is a bit of a shift because people are now, the smart academics, I think, are now starting to understand that used the right way, that podcasts and social media more broadly, are unbelievably awesome tools to share your thoughts and ideas and messages. By the way, we know you're a human. If you get something wrong, every now and then, or whatever, it doesn't matter.

Lisa: Well, we'll all get, I mean, you watch on social media, Dr Rhonda Patrick, another one that I follow? Do you follow her? Fantastic lady, you know, and you watch some of their feeds on social media, and they get slammed every day by people who pretending to be bloody more academic than her. That just makes me laugh, really. I'm just like, wow, they have to put up with all of that. The bigger your name and the more credibility you have as a scientist, the more you have to lose in a way.

You know, even David Sinclair another you know, brilliant scientists who loves his work. And I love the fact that he shared us with, you know, all his, all his research in real-time, basically, you know, bringing it out in the book Lifespan, which you have to read, in getting that out there in the masses, rather than squirrelling it away for another 20 years before it becomes part of our culture, and part of our clinical usage. We ain't got time for that. We have to, we're getting old now. I want to know what I need to do to stop that now. Thanks to him, you know, I've got some directions to show them. Whether he's 100% there, and he's got all the answers? No. But he's sharing where we're at from the progress. Science by its very nature is never finished. We never have the final answer. Because if someone thinks they do, then they're wrong, because they're not, we are constantly iterating and changing, and that's the whole basis of science.

Craig: Well just think about the food pyramid. That was science for a few decades.

Lisa: Lots of people still believe that shit. That's the scary thing because now that's filtering still down into the popular culture, that that's what you should be doing, eating your workbooks and God knows what. This is the scary thing, that it takes so long to drip down to people who aren't on that cutting edge and staying up with the latest stuff, because they're basically regurgitating what there was 20 years ago and not what is now.

Now Craig, I know you've got to jump off in a second. But I wanted to just ask one more question, if I may, we’re completely different. But I want to go there today because I'm going through this bloody shingles thing. Your mate Johny that you train, and who you've spoken about on the last podcast, who had a horrific accident and amazingly survived, and you've helped him, and he's helped you and you've helped him learn life lessons and recover, but he's in constant chronic pain.

I'm in constant chronic pain now, that's two and a half weeks. For frick’s sake, man, I've got a new appreciation of the damage that that does to society. I just said to my husband today, I've been on certain drugs, you know, antivirals, and in pain medication. I can feel my neurotransmitters are out of whack. I can feel that I'm becoming depressed. I have a lot of tools in my toolbox to deal with this stuff, and I am freely sharing this because what I want you to understand is when you, when you're dealing with somebody who is going through chronic pain, who has been on medications and antibiotics, and God knows whatever else, understanding the stuff that they're going through, because I now have a bit of a new appreciation for what this much of an appreciation for someone like Johnny's been through. What's your take on how pain and all this affects the neurotransmitters in the drugs?

Craig: Do you know what?

Lisa: You got two minutes, mate.

Craig: I'm actually gonna give you I'm gonna hook you up with a friend of mine. His name is Dr Cal Friedman. He is super smart, and he specialises in pain management, but he has a very different approach, right? He's a medical doctor, but look, in answer to, I talked to Johnny about the pain a bit, and we have, we use a scale, obviously 10 is 10. 0 is 0. There's never a 0. Every now and then it's a 1 or 2, but he's never pain-free. Because he has massive nerve damage. And sometimes, sometimes he just sits down in the gym, and he'll just, I'll get him to do a set of something, and he'll sit down and I just see this, his whole face just grimaces.

He goes, ‘Just give me a sec.’ His fist is balled up. He goes, sweat, sweat. I go, ‘What's going on, mate?’ He goes, ‘It feels like my leg, my whole leg is on fire.’

Lisa: Yeah. I can so relate to that right now.

Craig: Literally aren't, like, burning, like excruciating. I don't think there's any, I mean, obviously, if there was we'd all be doing it. There is no quick fix. There is no simple answer. But what he has done quite successfully is changed his relationship with pain. There is definitely, 100% definitely, a cognitive element to, of course, the brain is, because the brain is part of the central nervous system. Of course, the brain is involved. But there's another element to it beyond that, right.

I'm going to tell you a quick story that might fuck up a little bit of Dr Cal, if you get him on. He has done a couple of presentations for me at my camps. He's been on my show a little bit. But he told this story about this guy at a construction site that was working and he had a workplace accident. And he, a builder shot a three-inch nails through his boots, through his foot. Right? So the nail went through his foot, through the top of the leather, and out the sole, and he was in agony, right? He fell down, whatever and he's just rolling around in agony and his mates, they didn't want to take anything off because it was through the boot, through his foot.

They waited for the ambos to get there, and they gave him the green whistle. So you know that whatever that is, the morphine didn't do anything, he was still in agony. He was in agony. Anyway, they get him into the back of the ambulance and they cut the boot off. And the nail has gone between his big toe and second toe and didn't even touch his foot.

Lisa: Oh, wow. In other words, psychologically—

Craig: There was no injury. But the guy was literally in excruciating pain, he was wailing. And they gave him treatment, it didn't help. He was still in pain. So what that tells us—

Lisa: There is an element of—

Craig: What that tells us is our body can, our mind can create real, not perceived, but real pain in your body. And again, and this is where I think we're going in the future where we start to understand, if you can create extreme pain in your body where there is no biological reason, there is no actual injury, there's no physical injury, but you believe there's an injury, now you're in agony.

I think about, and there's a really good book called Mind Over Medicine by a lady called Lissa Rankin, which we might have spoken about. L-I-S-S-A, Lissa Rankin, Mind Over Medicine. What I love about her is, she's a medical doctor, and she gives case after case after case of healing happening with the mind, where people think placebos and no-cebos, people getting sick, where they think they're getting something that will make them sick, but it's nothing, they actually make themselves sick. And conversely, people getting well, when they're not actually being given a drug. They're being given nothing, but they think it's something. Even this, and this is fascinating, this operation, pseudo-operation I did with people where—

Lisa: Yeah, I read that one. I read that study.

Craig: Amazing.

Craig: Oh, yeah, it's look, pain is something that even the people who are experts in it, they don't fully understand.

Lisa: Well, I just like, if I can interrupt you there real briefly, because I've been studying what the hell nerve pain, and I'm like, my head, my sores are starting to heal up right. So in my head, I'm like ‘Whoa, I should be having this pain, I'm getting more pain from the burning sensation in my legs and my nerves because it's nerve pain.’ So I read somewhere that cryotherapy was good. So in the middle of the night, when I'm in really bad pain, instead of lying there and just losing my shit, and have I now have been getting up every night and having two or three cold ice-cold showers a night, which probably not great for my cortisol bloody profile, but it's, I’m just targeting that leg. That interrupts the pain sensation for a few minutes.

What I'm trying to do as I go, I'm trying to go like, can I—am I getting pain because my brain is now used to having pain? Is it sending those messages, even though there's no need, the sores are healing?

Craig: That is possible.

Lisa: Am I breaking? And I can break the pain for about 10 minutes, and then it will come back in again. But I'm continuing on with it, that idea that I can interrupt that pain flow. Then of course, during the breathe in, the meditation, the stuff and sometimes you just lose your shit and you lose it, and then you just start crying, ‘Mummy, bring me some chicken soup’ type moments. But it's really interesting. I mean, I just like to look at all these shit that we go from and then say, ‘Well, how can I dissect this and make this a learning curve?’ Because obviously, there's something wrong, but I just, I feel for people that are going through years of this.

Craig: It's, yeah, I'm the same I feel. Sometimes I work with people, where I work with and as do you, I work with a lot of people who have real problems. I don't have any problems. I mean, they have real problems. And I'm, despite my appearance, I'm quite, I'm very compassionate. It's hard for me because I, it upsets me to see people in pain. I feel simultaneously sad and guilty. How do I deserve this? But it just is what it is. But people like John and a lot of the people that I've worked with and you've worked with, you know, people like that inspire me.

I mean, they're— I don't find typical heroes inspirational. They don't really inspire me like the people we normally hold up as, I mean, well done. I think they’re great, but they don't inspire me. People who inspire me or people who really, how the fuck are you even here? How do you turn up? He turns up. He's actually in hospital right now because he's got a problem that's being fixed. But, and he's in and out of hospital all of the time. And then he turns up, he hugs me and he goes, ‘How are you?’ I go, ‘I'm good.’ He goes, ‘Now look at me.’ So I look at him. And he goes, ‘How are you really?’ And I go, ‘I'm good.’ This is the guy who—

Lisa: Who’s dealing with so much. I've got a friend, Ian Walker8, who I've had on the show, too, so he got hit by a truck when he was out cycling, I think it was years and years ago. He ended up a paraplegic. And then he recovered, he didn't recover, he’s still in a wheelchair, but he was out racing his wheelchair, he did wheelchair racing, and he's part of our club and stuff. And then he got hit by another truck, now he’s a quadriplegic.

This guy, just, he is relentless in his attitude, like he is, and I've seen him dragging himself like with his hands because he's got access now to his hands again. After working for the last couple of years, and he kind of, on a walker frame thing, dragging himself two steps and taking a little video of him, dragging his feet, not the feet out, working, they’re just being dragged. But the relentless attitude of the guy, I'm just like, ‘You’re a fricking hero. You're amazing. Why aren't you on everybody magazine cover? Why aren’t you like, super famous?’ Those people that really flip my boat.

Craig: Yeah. And I wish that, I'm with you, I wish they’re on the front of the boxes and the packages and the magazines. But hopefully we're moving in the right direction.

Lisa: Yeah. Craig, you've been wonderful today. Thank you so much for your time. I will have you back on again, no doubt, because you're just a legend. I loved hanging out with you.

Craig: Thanks, Lisa. Appreciate you. See you, everyone.

Lisa: See you mate!

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how to become metabolically flexible and fat-adapted. 2. Find out the truth about the keto diet and its effect on your metabolic health. 3. Learn how chronic stress can lead to severe brain damage.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Connect with Prof Grant: Website | Facebook * What The Fat? Book * PreKure: A place where you'll learn about health & wellness * From Prof Grant’s blog: * + Who cares about what humans have eaten in the past? + How to reverse the diabetes epidemic in 3 years. * Fast This Way by Dave Asprey * Patrick McKeown and James Nestor * ‎Huberman Lab Podcast by Dr Andrew Huberman

Episode Highlights [03:34] Prof Grant’s Background * Grant liked science and sports from his early childhood. * He wanted to study physical education in university, but his family told him to take up engineering. He eventually ended up studying physiology and psychology. * Grant then got into triathlons while he started his academic and research career. * He focuses on fitness, nutrition, sleep, and well being. * He has written books on fasting and diets for reversing sicknesses and enhancing performance.

[10:41] Metabolic Flexibility Can Be Trained * A long time ago, humans used fat as a primary fuel source when resting and moving around. * In contrast, the modern, average person doesn't burn fat, especially when at rest. * Grant thinks that people can reverse this and train to be metabolically flexible. * People who have metabolic inflexibility tend to have a low supply of readily available energy. * Grant prescribed a diet and workout training programme to a client. This person eventually became fat-adapted and broke a record in the triathlon he joined.

[17:54] The Truth About the Keto Diet * The initial process of getting into the keto diet is strict, but after around three weeks, however, it becomes sustainable. * Unless you have therapeutic reasons to do so, you don’t need to stick to the keto diet all the time. * Some people believe that the keto diet isn't good because our genetic ancestors had short lifespans. * Grant and Lisa argue that the cavemen’s lifespans were shorter because of other reasons.

[24:18] The Addictiveness of Food * Lisa thinks that the quality of our food is horrific: a lot of processed food is unhealthy and addictive. Grant also observed this through his research. * Sugar, in particular, is often overused in our food. * Sugar addiction can be especially harmful because our bodies are not predisposed to coping with it. * The food industry has many tactics to make unhealthy, addicting food sound healthy. * Listen to the whole episode to hear Grant’s research and battling the food industry’s tactics.

[34:57] The Metabolic and Mental Health Crisis * Mental health problems are becoming more and more prevalent amongst New Zealand youth. * Because of the faulty healthcare system, the youth often turn to medicine for their mental health problems. * We have a metabolic crisis involving obesity, diabetes and the brain. * Our metabolic balance can be interrupted by antidepressants. * Instead of taking medicine, Lisa thinks the youth should be taught how to manage their health better.

[43:41] About Glutamate and Stress * Our brains produce glutamate when we are stressed. * There is an inhibitory system called GABA that inhibits the effects of glutamate. * When you are chronically stressed, this amino acid keeps getting pumped out and can overwhelm your brain. * Too much glutamate in our system can kill our brain cells and damage the brain. * You can combat glutamate toxicity through various methods. Learn how when you listen to the full episode!

[58:02] Making Science Understandable for Everyone * Lisa mentions the works of Patrick McKeown and James Nestor. * Grant applauds their approach of translating science into something understandable while not dumbing it down. * Lisa thinks that most health systems treat most people as idiots and don't explain the science behind health well.

[1:03:26] Grant’s Parting Advice * It’s difficult to reach a state of good health and homeostasis in our current world. However, it’s not impossible. * Grant advocates for everyone to use their voice to overwhelm the industries that promote unhealthy living.

7 Powerful Quotes From This Episode ‘The thing is, with addictions, of course, is that people go because everyone is not addicted to it, doesn't mean it's not a thing.’

‘Sugar is definitely one of those things that is one of the hardest addictions I think, not that I've been addicted to anything else but it's a bloody hard addiction to get rid of and stay on top of.’

‘We're fighting a war here, and we've got kids that are already diabetic and before they're even teenagers, and this is a coming huge disaster for the healthcare system.’

‘We've got a metabolic crisis with obesity and diabetes, but guess what? The most important metabolic organ is your brain.’

'Now I understand the need for health fundamentals like sleep, hygiene, and movement, and exercise, and sunshine, and the right diet, because diet is a huge piece of the puzzle because your gut and your brain are connected.'

‘We weren't designed for long-term stress. We're designed for acute fight or flight.’

‘Let's treat people as if they have got a brain in the head. Just because they don't know the jargon. You can explain the jargon.’

About Prof Grant Prof Grant Schofield is a Professor of Public Health at Auckland University of Technology and the director of the university's Human Potential Centre (HPC). His research and teaching interests include wellbeing and chronic disease prevention. Prof Schofield is committed to unlocking people's peak performance through consulting. His motto: 'be the best you can be'.

Grant has been interested in human health and performance ever since he started his career. He first took up psychology, went into sport and exercise psychology, then into public health. Prof Schofield has a diverse background and has an interest in biology, medicine, public health, and productivity management. He covers various health topics in his blog and book.

If you want to connect with Prof Grant, you can follow him on Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how to optimise their health.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week I have another wonderful professor with me who is going to share some insights and the latest research and I'm really, really excited for this interview. I have Professor Grant Schofield, who is the Professor of Public Health at Auckland University of Technology. He's also the director of the University's Human Potential Center, located at Millennium Campus up in Auckland. His interests lie with dealing with chronic disease and well being and prevention around degenerative diseases, obesity, metabolic disorders. He’s a very, very interesting man, he's written a number of books along with his team. I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation. We're pretty frank and upfront about our beliefs, and they’re very much aligned so I really enjoyed this talk with Professor Grant Schofield.

Before we head over to the show, just a reminder to check out our patron program, www.patron.lisatamati.com, and I'd also love you to check out our flagship epigenetics program. Our epigenetics is all about understanding your own genes, and how to optimize them for your best health. So looking at areas from your food, to your exercise to the what times of the day to do things, your chronobiology, that's called looking at your mood and behavior, your what parts of the brain you use most dominantly, and this is a very powerful program that has changed really, hundreds of lives. We've now used it for a number of years in the corporate space, as well as in the athletic space, as well as with people dealing with different health issues. So if you want to find out more, go to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program.

We've also got out Running Hot Coaching. Don't forget that, www.runninghotcoaching.com is the website to go for our online run training system. It's all personalized, customized to you to your next big goal, you get video analysis, a consult with me all in the basic package and plan for your next event, including everything from your strength to your mobility workouts, as well as your run sessions and advice around eating and mindset. So check that out at runninghotcoaching.com. Right, over to Professor Grant Schofield at the Millennium Center in Auckland.

Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today, I have a superstar. I have a guest that I'm really, really excited about speaking to because this is a very learned gentleman and an elite athlete and someone who I greatly admire. I have Professor Grant Schofield to guest. Welcome to the show. I’m glad to have you, Grant!

Prof Grant Schofield: Hey, Lisa. Yeah, thanks for having me. And, yeah, I've been following you from a distance for years. And you know, just enjoying your achievements love, and it's so great to have you on the show.

Lisa: And likewise in reverse. So thank you very much. It's a real honor. So today we, I reckon we just gonna dive into some of the stuff that you've been researching and what's on your mind at the moment, because you've got so many areas that I could go down, you know, looking at high fat diets and obesity and diabetes and prevention. Then we can look at the weight paper that you've just recently released, which I've, I just studied and went, ‘Wow, that was all about glutamate and toxicity and all that’. Well, that's new, that was all new to me. So which direction and firstly, give us a bit of an introduction to you in your background and your sporting career and all of that sort of stuff.

Grant: Yeah. So, like, I'd always, something that always interests me in my life is things that I was sort of good at, and I was only good at it because I like doing them was, not so much school, but science and biology. I just liked it. I just like learning about that stuff. I was right from the very start of school and this is just something that continued to happen. I also like doing sports. I was just like one of those kids who is into the sports and I was okay. It was like, every New Zealand kid plays rugby. I wasn't that great, but I played it, you know, I've got on the 15 rugby and all this sort of stuff and that sort of thing. And the school I said also had rowing as a sport, which Yeah, and they did a performance level. So it was to win the national championships. And they so, the crews I was in, trained hard. And there was high-performance aspects, as long as they were in hindsight of nutrition and psychology and training and the broad range of things that good teenage athletes get involved with.

Then of course, they don't finish as when you finish the school, and I sort of found myself, thought I’ll go to uni. My dad was an engineer and he thought I should go to, I wanted to go to do physical education. That was the main thing I was interested in, and my family sort of pulled me out of it and told me I should have gone to engineering. I lasted a week in there. It obviously wasn't for me. But I ended up in a degree studying physiology and psychology, just a science degree because that's what I found interesting. And then I went from, not really been that interested all of sudden getting these A-pluses. I didn't think I was brainy. But it was just, you know, I was just used to go to lectures, and not really take notes, and just listen and ask questions, and it was really interesting. But because I wasn't that mature, there was never a point in my life early on where I was like, Grant Schofield is now capable of getting a decent job where someone's going to employ him, and he's going to make some difference to the world. That wasn't a thing, right?

Lisa: Yeah.

Grant: So I couldn't finish this one degree and go and get a job because I wasn't capable of doing any work. I didn't think I could at the time. But that's the reality in hindsight, right? So. Of course, this is the early 90s. And this sport of triathlon was coming on the scene where I live in New Zealand, there was these great personalities like Erin Baker, another woman, Erin Christie, another one, Rick Wells, and, just to a young person, and then I ended up, you know, going out training with quite large, and a lot of these people, and I just got into the sport. The thing is about endurance, especially longer, it’s as you know, what, you need to be sort of mentally tough, the pain’s a lot softer than something like rowing or, or, you know, measuring 3,000 meters running or, you know, 400-800 meter swimming, these are sports with a piano actually does fall hard on you. And so that sort of softer pain of the—

Lisa: Softer, longer.

Grant: Longer.

Lisa: There's all the pains that come with it, yeah.

Grant: But it's more of a, it's more of a thinking person sport, right, because you get to work through that. Whereas, you know, in a 400-meter is something that you don't get to work through anything. It's just falling on you, the cut score is coming in. And so I really love that stuff. And so I just did more and more of I just want to do nothing but that. The mindset of the endurance ethic that just wants to do more and more and more. Luckily, I sort of carried on with my studies and then started my academic career. And then I became a psychologist, I'm actually quite useless at psychology because, mainly because I want to give people the answer. And of course, you know, good psychological counseling is about asking open-ended questions, reflective listening, and waiting for the client to come up with a solution, which is absolutely hopeless. As my wife would tell you—

Lisa: You’re an action orientated guy, like no, there is the solution here.

Grant: Yeah. This is why this is the problem for us. It's this sort that out. By then, by the early 2000s, when it really just dawned on us that our kids didn't look like we did when we were kids.

Lisa: Yeah.

Grant: You can look. I actually was reflecting on the other day, I looked at my photo of Twizel Primary School, Year One in 1974. And, yeah, by modern standards, people will be wondering if those kids are properly fed, why the teachers are so lean. And you compare that with a modern day Year One primary school class, or later, and it's a different world we lived in.

So that was the early 2000s, that world had unfolded, right? So didn't, wasn't the same.

Lisa: It’s scary.

Grant: And as fit as I used to be, they weren't the same shape they used to be and we wondered why. And so that was really the field that welcomed me, which was that topic of nutrition.

Lisa: Wow. So that’s where you got into, yeah.

Grant: Yeah, yeah, just didn't mean to. And then, you know, all of a sudden, I guess my research career’s followed my curiosity around the world. So when you're, when you've got young kids, you're interested in young kids. When you've got teenagers, youngsters, young teenagers, When I was racing, elite, high performance, triathlons, we're interested in that. And thankfully, being an academic, it allows you to, especially in my field, allows you the freedom to roam around those and understand those different things. So I've sort of had a, maybe it's a short concentration span, but effectively just a curiosity to keep rolling my research career and practice.

Lisa: It's really good that you can do that with an academic career sort of go go like this and still stay—

Grant: You can’t go off into sort of, you know, rocket propulsion or something, but, you know, yeah, as long as I stick it to the main things, which are being sort of fitness, nutrition, sleep, well being, then those sort of four things combined, have really been my wheelhouse. But in different, the settings, and the context seems to often change. And then you just, you'll do some work and you'll discover what you think an answer is, or not an answer is, it's a dead end or it's actually got places to go, then you're sort of done with it, and you're on to the next sort of variation of something.

So that's sort of been my life. So the latter stuff is really, we've done a lot of work on low-carb and keto diets, fasting, written quite a few books on that.

Lisa: Yeah, What the Fat? and—

Grant: And yeah, yeah, and so that's been really interesting for me, you know, for, for reversing things like diabetes at one end of the spectrum, sort of net, sort of metabolic dysregulation, through to the other end of a high performance.

I'm an athlete, so I coach still, you know, being able to triple their ability to burn free fatty acids at a given intensity and really have a pretty much inexhaustible fuel supply. Before that, they would, you know, really run out of glycogen and struggle through the enjoyment and performance of an event. So—

Lisa: Let's start with that one, just if I may interrupt you there, because it's, you know, something that's fascinated me. When I was, you know, active career, I'd never become fat-adapted as an athlete. Your take is that, should endurance athletes be always fat-adapted? Or is it a genetic thing some people are good at, and some people are less so? What is your take on it now, like, given the knowledge that you have and the experience?

Grant: So I think that the normal human condition, if you wander up to a Paleolithic human before we started farming grains and wheat and stuff, that sort of hunter gatherers that they would have enjoyed this metabolic flexibility to use fat as a primary fuel source when are resting and moving around low intensities, and then as they got higher and higher intensity, then they would have supplemented that fat burning with extra energy produced from burning glucose in the body. But that doesn't exist. So commonly, and so we're just in the normal human state that lets you burn fat in some circumstances, and carbs and fat in other circumstance.

But if you went down to the local Westfield shopping mall and went to the food hall, and you you bought all those people up to my lab and put them on our metabolic card and measured there, because you can measure both breath by breath gas analysis and understand whether they've been in primarily fat or carbohydrate or whatever mix of. So we do that sort of graded exercise tissue stop at risk, just breathing into the tube. The machine’s analyzing fat and carb burning, and as you increase your intensity, like running speed or power on the bike, then you just see this greater change.

Now, your average person off the street in the food hall doesn't burn fat, even at rest. So they’re metabolically inflexible. Yep. And then the question is, can you train that? And can you train that even on high performance athletes? I think the answer is yes, and I'll give you a good example. There's a young fellow I trained, Matt Kurt and what I mean, saying this. I've trained him for a few years now. So he came from a CrossFit background. He was a fit young man. Yeah, he would be eating mostly carbs, actually.

Lisa: Yeah, we were all told back in the day.

Grant: Yeah, totally. So he wanted me to help him prepare for an Ironman triathlon. And so I started training him and say, on an April one year so over in New Zealand winter, didn't really mention diet, because we couldn't seem to get to that but we sort of got on the on the idea that he had to go bike riding, and what running would look like, and it was learning the sports. And by December, he did his first triathlon, which was a 70.3, sort of half Ironman, with a view to going through the Ironman in New Zealand three months later and beginning of March, and he did pretty well actually, like it came fourth overall in the amateurs, so he is talented young man, and he’s a swimmer. He could hit a bike, he could run a bit. But I knew he was a cub and I was like, I need to put you in my lab and we need to measure your fuel burning on that.

So in early December, we got them in there and his peak fat oxidation was about half a gram, a minute, at about 165 watts in the box. So it's not very good power, output is not going to be very fast. And he's only getting because a gram of fat has about nine calories, he’s spending half of one of those a minute over 60 minutes. He’s got about 400 to 500 calories an hour available from fat, and you know, he's going to be racing at 1200 calories an hour.

Lisa: Yeah.

Grant: So over several hours, yeah. He's simply is going to run into all sorts of trouble, because he's got this deficit of 800 calories an hour, he needs to find from glucose. He's got probably 2000 calories that he's got in his muscles and liver. He can consume another couple of 100 by eating gels and stuff, or bananas or something. So he's woefully short. And so it means he can just make a half, I mean, over four hours. We probably have eight or nine hours, he's going to grovel home. He’s going to be a really bad mess. And that's what you see. It's always frustrated me. I got things like Ironman Triathlon, they sort of, 8-15 hour events, or 17 hour events for people.

And I think the saddest thing for me is, first of all this, two thirds of the fittest still mimics the general population, which is overweight.

Lisa: Yeah.

Grant: And virtually all of them run out of glucose or glycogen and their body, sometimes during the bike or shortly into the run. And so the whole marathon experience for them is a very unpleasant affair.

They don't like doing it, they finally make it, it's been a real drain on, and they've had so much support from their friends and family over that preparation period, and it was all avoidable. So with Matt, within a mile, we're like, what this is going to happen with you, Matt. So we're stuck on a strict keto diet for three weeks, his training over that period was fairly low intensity, we didn’t really go for any intensity up until after the new year period. And then just sit them on to Iron Man training, and that includes his long run and his long bike which he did weekly, and I've been doing them fasted. Yeah, so with just water. People find that a little bit extreme but his intensity is really low. We'd go out and do you know, like a six hour bike in the end that with no food, and he’d be fine.

Lisa: And that’s the thing, you're adapted.

Grant: You get adapted. And so going back into the lab just before Iron Man, and he’d improved his maximum fat oxidation from half a gram a minute at 165 watts or something, to 1.1 grams a minute at 260 watts.

Lisa: Wow.

Grant: So now he's able to supply 800 calories an hour from fat, and he can do it at 260 watts, which is actually a reasonably competitive pair out, but he's going to get along at you know, 39, 40 calories an hour.

Lisa: Wow.

Grant: And yeah, and so in his first, second ever triathlon, in his first Iron Man, he does, he finishes, I don't know, the top 10 and 9 hours 22. So good effort.

Lisa: That’s amazing.

Grant: Yeah, we come back the next year, now with a bit more training on his belt, and he can he manages 8 hours 50. Wow. And this year, he comes back and he wins the entire age group race by half an hour, breaks the course record by seven minutes and does 8:27. And I got him back in the lab straight after that. And what we saw as further fed adaptation over that two-year period, so now he is able to burn 1.8 grams a minute of fat at 310 watts, and that's an astonishing power output. So 310 watts, yeah, you're doing 42 Ks an hour, on a decent course. And that's, he rode 4 hours 29 480 Ks, it's an astonishing time, especially for a guy who's working full time as a teacher.

Lisa: That's insane.

Grant: So that's what we mean by being metabolically flexible, and, and becoming a real fat-burning machine.

Lisa: But what about the arguments about you know, I mean, keto diet is a very difficult diet for people to, if we're talking about the general population now, and it's quite a hard diet to stick to, long term. What about adherence to things? Do you have to be strictly keto? Do you have to be really low on your carbs in order to get the ketones and be in ketosis and to get this fat adaptation? Is there any middle ground? Can you—

Grant: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I mean, the series of questions you got there, Lisa, are just crucial. And the answer is, initially getting into that. as I'm, for that three, it's very strict. And so that's three weeks. After that, it's very much cyclical. So we generate nutritional ketosis and fat burning by fasted long workouts. And on other cases during the week, we're adding carbohydrates quite a bit. So it's definitely not a strict ketogenic diet at all. And we'll have off periods where he's just eating whatever. In fact, I have trouble trying to get him off the ketone to be a bit more loose, frankly. But that's, that's an athlete, not a normal human, in that sense. This is why I introduced the idea of fasting and intermittent fasting and I'm quite keen on that. And for me, what the fast what I tried to sort of mimic what I felt was an easy, sustainable, cyclical way for me to eat that generated fat burning.

Lisa: And pursued it with autophagy? We're all talking about intermittent fasting and I do it like an intermittent fasting, a short-ish intermittent fasting. Is that going to this, I'm not gonna get into ketosis doing an intermittent fasting.

Grant: So I just, I would do this sort of pattern of Sunday, try and be reasonably good on the low carb, just eat whatever I wanted. But try and be okay with it. Monday, do some restricted eating windows. So you know, might be, a longest window. Someone who's experienced like me, I could just have one meal that day, and the Tuesday I just did the same thing. So you know, and when I hit a meal I made sure it was super filling, super nutritious, I was calling that super meals. So that's my, that's my Monday and Tuesday, my hard parts of the week, right I worked hard and I concentrated hard on my freshly generated nutritional ketosis. By Monday lunchtime, despite the weekend, Saturday being quite poor, I was back in full ketosis.

I made a bit of an effort, I managed to sort of hang on to some stuff with no real particular restriction but trying to keep the carbs down for Wednesday, Thursday. By the end of Friday, everything had sort of gone pretty loose. And Saturday it was, could be, sometimes off the route is completely out of nutritional ketosis and plenty of carbs, even the odd bit of alcohol, which I'm not encouraging, by the way, but that just seems to happen sometimes.

Lisa: Yeah. And we've got to live, too,

Grant: Yeah, yeah. So I'd be completely out of ketosis and in no shape for that at all. But by Monday morning, I'll be back in again. So I just get this period.

Lisa: So you can do that. It's been my question today is like, do I, if I go to keto, you know, go the keto diet. Do you have to do it as a religion? This is me. And then you get people like Dave Asprey and and if you read his book, Fast This Way, and that, he talks about cyclic keto, and how that's even better than just being straight keto, because keto itself can have some negative benefits.

Dr Grant: Yeah, I completely agree. And so unless you're wanting to be on keto, for some sort of therapeutic resume, I said, you know, glioblastoma, brain cancer or brain injury like a TBI, I think so. Interesting thing, some other cancers, or you're in chemotherapy, then I don't see any reason to be in that state all the time. But the point is having a bit of bollock machinery to be able to be and easily get in and out. My hypothesis is the Paleolithic one, which is really that humans are metabolically flexible, it's the normal human condition and to see modern humans that have really lost their orchestration of the metabolism to, to burn fat as a primary fuel sources as a sort of denying your own humanity type situation without being too dramatic about it, really.

Lisa: But yeah, if we, I was reading one of your blogs, and you hit another, Dr Lisa Te Morenga, I think it was, saying, oh, but you know, like, if we look at from an evolutionary perspective, the caveman because this is an argument that I've had with people too, oh, but the cavemen didn't live very long, so therefore, it's not a good diet. To say that that's, but that's not a bit that helped us survive till now. You know, like we—

Grant: I think that’s a complete straw man of an argument, by the way.

Lisa: Yeah, I think so too.

Grant: I mean, I think, you know, I mean, first of all, while the average lifespan, is fairly low for people, it’s just for other reasons!

Lisa: It’s for other reasons.

Grant: So if you didn't have those reasons, your actual survival was pretty good. And actually, the important thing to remember is that Paleolithic humans didn't have chronic disease. So they didn't have this, these, what is it a New Zealand at the moment, 12 years of disability in their life before they died, which, so subtract 12 off your lifespan, to get your health span, to health span, span with the same thing. And also question about that.

Lisa: We don't have infant mortality, like they did. And we didn't have lions chasing us, and we've got all these other things that make us live longer. But now we have to take even more care of our metabolic state, in order that we don't have these long term. And I mean, I've been living with the consequences of mom's metabolic disorders, leading to an aneurysm, for the past five years, and trying to undo the damage. You know, what I'm talking about is like, in that decline that we see with so many people for over decades, sometimes, and it's just a horrific way to go out for starters.

Grant: You know, I don't think anyone, if you ask them when they're in good health, about how they want the rest of their life to track, says they want to be in poor health with a low health span. I don't think that's a topic that people raise as being a good thing.

Lisa: No.

Grant: It's my experience. When I ask even people who aren't doing many healthy behaviors of what they want, then they'll say health, family, friends and happiness, whatever that means. But they, yeah,

Lisa: yeah. And I think this is the discussion that we need to be having, so that we find out what the optimum diet is. People I know, I've struggled with my diet over the years. One of the reasons I started running was because I wanted to eat more, because I love food. And then, then I suddenly, at some point, I realized, this hypothesis of calories in calories out is absolute bullshit. This isn't working and that really came to you know, people who hear my podcasts and hear me say when I ran through New Zealand, and I just suddenly woke up. I was running 500 kilometers a week. Yeah, and I was getting fatter because I was in a complete state of chaos. You know, my hormones were up, my water retention, all of that sort of—

Grant: High amount of inflammation, probably.

Lisa: Huge amounts of inflammation. And I ended up flaccid, losing muscle mass and getting fatter and having a slower metabolic rate. I could have sat on the couch and eaten chips and gotten better, you know, in shape?

Grant: Yeah.

Lisa: So that's when a light bulb went for me, and then it also had other reasons like genetically I'm not really made for the long distance stuff, I'm more the high intensity, shorter, sharper, is more suited to me. So I was doing that wrong as well, because some people, it's better to be doing the long. But I think having these discussions where we really dig in, and you've done the research, you know, what, from an evolutionary perspective, what we need to be eating. The state of our food now is horrific. Then you, you add into all that the whole addictive nature of all the stuff and the additives, or preservatives, the MSGs for all of the sugars that are added to our phones, and people are up against it. Like, you know, you can’t even—

Grant: Yeah, I agree. Those two topics that might be worth going into those, I've got two—

Lisa: Yes, please.

Grant: —sort of bases, working in both those areas, the first you mentioned, like you go out, the state of our food supply. So what we've been doing recently is we've been going to primary schools around the place. And we've been taking photos of all the year sixes’ lunchboxes. And whatever you think, particularly on what we call that social gradient, that sort of tipping of rich versus poor at the bottom end of that, whatever you think the food supply’s like, I don't care what you think about how bad it is. It's worse than you think.

Lisa: Yeah.

Grant: I actually cried, I actually physically cried.

Lisa: That’s what our kids are getting to eat every day.

Grant: Yeah, and how that's not a priority. Just remember that the biggest cost to our healthcare system for our kids is having to anesthetize them to extract teeth because they're rotten at age five, and we can't walk around too much if they're not anesthetized. So yeah, I mean, what society treats its most vulnerable like that? Just one little rant: in kids healthcare, we have to go and do fundraising and buy raffle tickets to pay for the hospitals for kids. And we don’t do that with adults. That sort of fundraising for that is despicable. It's not a government that cares.

Lisa: Not to mention the whole bloody ambulance service.

Grant: Yeah, there’s all of that, wouldn’t I fund that? There’s all of that stuff as well. So that's just a mess of how, frankly, Ad the second thing is I've got another student who's just really got into this, the addiction side of food. And as a former psychologist, she goes through and look at the, some, you know, use this Diagnostic and Statistical Manual DSM, DSM-5 is the latest version, which is a way of characterizing disorders.

And you look at the substance misuse disorder, which is really around addictions. And you know, if you change the word alcohol or methamphetamine or tobacco for sugar, yeah, then, you know, the sorts of things you know, sometimes feel withdrawal sometimes. I eat more than I should change unprofessional behavior and makes things worse in my life. You go across all 11 criteria, and you go, Yeah, it's pretty plausible. That's a real thing. Yeah. And the thing is, with addictions, of course, is that people go because everyone is not addicted to it, doesn't mean it's not a thing. So there's this, there's a lot of alcohol drunk where people don't turn into alcoholics It doesn't mean there's not such a thing as alcoholics. And there's, you know, for many people, it becomes a substance they can't control using and I feel the same things about sugar in your ultra processed food in general really.

Lisa: Yeah. And the sugar I mean, the I mean like people like you I know you've done a lot of work with a Pacific Island population and Maori and so on, we have a predisposition to you know, not being able to cope with the sugars and more cardiovascular disease and more metabolic disorders. So even more Prater the stuff because we've already and haven't had I don't know hundreds of years of of having it to a certain degree in I mean, I've struggled no sugar is definitely one of those things that is one of the hardest addictions I think, not that I've been addicted to anything else but it's a bloody hard addiction to to get rid of and stay on top of.

Grant: Something like smoking or alcohol like the absence of is part of it is hard but just slightly easier because it's contained whereas sugar’s so ubiquitous in the food supply, you can't stop it. It's very hard, you know, all of a sudden you put some chili sauce on your something and you're damn near 75% sugar, you know, like?

Lisa: You don't even realize it unless you start baking them and making everything from scratch.- And then you know, not to mention all the MSGs and the additives, preservatives, emulsifiers that are you know, destroying our guts and causing us to want more. I mean, there's a real reason why you can't eat one chip. If you eat one chip, you've eaten the packet,

Grant: Well, that's certainly my experience. But strangely, and I had an argument with a dietitian the other day about this, there's a total open quote and short of eating. And it's like her hypothesis was, well, the whole reason we I was like, Look, there's no point having salted chips in my house, because they’ll last five minutes, I’ll eat the whole lot. Yes. Oh, no, no, no, the way you should overcome that is just have dozens of packets on there and just eat yourself silly and then you'll get over it. That’s just bullshit in my experience

Lisa: Pretty much done that, and that didn't work. That doesn't work. I've heard that theory too. I think that's absolute rubbish, and not something that I'd recommend for starters, because you're gonna start on an either like, that's like, you know, a little bit good, then we must have just have some more.

Yeah.

Lisa: That's ridiculous. Really, they still think that.

You know there's a whole movement?

You're kidding? Okay. But how do we help people? Because people are unaware of the addictive nature of their food and we're so like, I don't have a big garden full of organic veggies. I never time, all the knowledge and I used to having my dad used to do my garden and then it was good. But now I don't. Most of us don't have access to good quality foods.

What the hell do we do? We go into a supermarket and it's just so easy to pick up a pre-made sauce, you know, tomato sauce, or Bolognese sauce instead of, you know, buying a bloody lot of tomatoes and making it. But yeah, but we've fallen into this trap. And now we're addicted all of us. Because the big food industry wants you to eat more of its crap.

Grant: Yeah, they've conspired both on research and practice. And then just in all practical ways. In fact, I wrote a paper with a couple of superstars actually a guy, Aseem Malhotra, who's a cardiologist, in London, and Rob Lustig, who's pretty famous, a pediatric endocrinologist from San Francisco about the the tricks that the food industry has pulled, which are pretty much the exact same ones as Big Tobacco have over the years, you know, creating bogus interest groups, false advocacy, sponsoring athletes, list goes on.

Lisa: I’m a part of that machinery, unfortunately, you know, when I was a young athlete being sponsored by Coca Cola—

Grant: I didn't, I was told, I was told not to come back to, I'm in New Zealand. I spoke there one time, a couple of years ago, because I had to guard the sponsors product, which was Nutrigrain, Kellogg's Nutrigrain, which is four and a half staff health rating food, that's, you know, a third sugar. It's just a disgrace. Yeah, that was not welcome again.

Lisa: When you see famous sports teams, I won’t name any, but they're nutritionists on the telly telling you to eat stuff that really is not what you want your kids eating. And you’re like, ‘Wow, that's wrong on so many levels’, you know?

Grant: I’ll tell you a story about that. I don’t know if I should tell this story. Years ago, I gave this talk on a sort of update on physical activity and health for the first-time executives of Coca Cola over this Waipuna Lodge in Auckland. I'd finished my talk, I was just at the back. And the head and corners in and go on. The next guy that got was a corporate guy from the US about how they're going to discredit various nutrition people and active tactics. I went around, and I sort of sat there and listened to it. And I was like, ‘Oh’, and then about halfway through, I was like, ‘Shit, I'll make sure I get out of here alive’. Yeah, but there was like an active discussion about, about the tactics to deal with scientists who were dissonant to the view, to the worldview, which I thought was a really interesting,

Lisa: This is a reality. And this is what's happening not only in the food industry, it's also happening in the pharmaceutical industry. It's also happening in many industries that we in the public are not, and when you've got people like you that are brave enough to stand up and say stuff, you get attacked. I'm quite surprised that my podcast hasn't been taken off here yet. But anyway.

Grant: Yeah, that's right. And yeah, it will heavily wind but people will be, there’s forces in play there. You don't want to get too conspiratorial because it sometimes requires a degree of organization that doesn't, that we’re capable of, but yeah, I think in the food industry case and pharmaceutical industry, the evidence has been there for a long time.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. And I think, my approach to it now is like, we are possible, light a candle toward the good information rather than fighting and banging your head against the, you know, because otherwise you can end up in a very bad place. But okay, so we know that there's all these addictive forces, if you like, at play. And so because you just look around town, you know, in the obesity and they are boys they’re looking like girls and, you know, the hormone regulation is just obviously affected and fertility rates are going down. We're fighting a war here, and we've got kids that are already diabetic and before they're even teenagers, and this is a coming huge disaster for the healthcare system when you’re in public health.

Grant: Yeah, yeah. The present one that I've become much more interested in because it's, I think it's become more obvious today for a bunch of reasons. I'll tell you a few stories as mental health, particularly Youth Mental Health. I've been an academic for a few decades. And, you know, a decade ago or two decades ago, okay, students will get seconds, some would have some mild mental health problems, but it wasn't really a thing that you would see very much. Now at the moment, all the time I get students, students like it's dropping out of the degree now because of their mental health.

They've got anxiety. And these are really smart, intelligent, switched-on people with, these are the top of the socioeconomic ladder, we don’t know how much worse it is at the bottom. I didn't even get there in the first place. That youth suicide rate in New Zealand, it keeps getting talked about as the tip of an iceberg for a major problem. One of the women that I work with, mid-20s, beautiful, intelligent woman. Yeah, we're talking about SSRIs, antidepressants, because I've been on those I could have knocked me over I said, are, you know, is it a common thing for your friend group and that sort of thing? She goes, I pretty much everyone I know is on them. Yeah, yeah. And, and so we've got this—

Lisa: It’s a good sequence, isn’t it?

Grant: Because the brains are metabolic. We've got a metabolic crisis with obesity and diabetes, but guess what? The most important metabolic organ is your brain. Somehow, again, here we are, asleep at the wheel, we've got this, you've got this treatment gap. So even if we could treat them with anything effective, which is doubtful. From our current system, yeah, they can only treat half the half of the 910,000 people in the country of 5 million. Because 910,000 is the number of serious mental health problems. Wow. Half of them don't get any treatment whatsoever, because there is no treatment. You bring the mental health crisis line, which we've had to do. And they will say, are they killing themselves right now? And that's just like, no, that's like—

Lisa: ‘Okay, we've got time.’

Grant: Yeah, then okay, we're not doing it, I think. And we'll go to your doctor. If you go to your doctor, you know that there's a nine month wait to see a psychologist?. It’s just unacceptable.

Lisa: And what's the answer? The course, the easy answer for the doctor is to give them a SSRI.

Grant: Which doesn't work very well. No. neuroplasticity, if they're a young person, causes them harm.

Lisa: Closes down hormones. And does it different.

Grant: Yeah, 100%.

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Grant: So to me, the unacknowledged metabolic crisis here we can see obesity. We can measure diabetes. Yeah, and those are problems. But you know, to me the most perverse one, especially having, you know, teenage kids myself and that sort of thing is this youth mental health thing. It's despicable. Like my dad, yeah, good for him. He had metastatic prostate cancer and was sorted with this keto diet, but the amount of access to expensive treatment, he was able to get in his 80s. Compared to a young woman in her early 20s, who has a serious mental health problem that's going to affect her, and even around for the rest of their lives, who can get none. It's perverse, who spends their money on health that way? Yeah, like, I want my dad to get his treatment and get better and everything, which he has, but, what sort of society prioritizes that over these young people?

Lisa: Yeah, and what can we do? Like why, there is a lot of I mean, I talk research a lot, and I know that your research is also pointing in this direction, that there's a lot of health fundamentals that we can get right, that can actually help people without costing anything even, without having to be a pharmacological intervention. How about we try to teach people how to manage themselves? And I mean, I've had, I was on antidepressants for over 20 years, and I could not get off them, because they are addictive. It took me three years to get off them, and thank God I did. I, in my early 20s, had relationship crises, was put on them, just stayed on them because I didn't know any better.

What are, what implications that’s had for me, and then trying to get off them. And of course, your body starts to downregulate your own if you're not producing your own. I've got off them now, and I'm fine, and so on, and I'm helping other family members off them. But that was the first port of call. Now I understand the need for health fundamentals like sleep, hygiene, and movement, and exercise, and sunshine, and the right diet, because diet is a huge piece of the puzzle, because your gut and your brain are connected. And there's a lot of, like you say, a fix. When you have a bad diet, and you have bad nutrition, you're going to have more mental instability, if you want to put it that way, you're going to have more problems, than if you're on a good, really robust, solid, good diet. That's going to affect your mental health. And what are our kids, they're not giving any of that information, or any programs around it.

Grant: Yeah, and you interfere with one aspect of metabolic homeostasis with an antidepressant, and you're surprised that it doesn't work very well, and there’s unintended consequences. What we're trying to do is, and humans, I think, all want to be in the state, we're trying to return ourselves to a sort of metabolic homeostasis where things are balanced and well-regulated. For the most of the body, that's the primary target, there is a sugar in your blood and the insulin in your blood, because if those aren't right, then you're an inflammatory environment and pro-growth and no chance to, you know, being that autophagy of tightening things up. So that's the big metabolic picture. But in the brain, I've just started to stitch together a much more, I think coherent view of what's going on.

Because the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain is important. I just think with the low fat revolution, we pick fat, not carbohydrates. We pick the wrong one of the three. Yeah, well, this is alright, we pick serotonin as the neurotransmitter to manage, we need to get it back to where it started more quickly. That's what reuptake inhibitors do. And actually, sorry?

Lisa: You've written a paper recently on glutamate and its role in all this. Can you explain about it?

Grant: I have, six months ago, I had heard of glutamate because I, trying to, from psychology, and frankly, I'd forgotten what it did. Until one of my smart students reminded me that glutamate is the most important and most prevalent excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. It's about 90% of your neurotransmitters, it runs in tandem with an inhibitory system called GABA. And so these two things operate together. The inhibition fine tunes the excitation. And not only that, the glutamate gets recycled onto glutamine and then back into GABA and they rely on one another to be in a sort of, you know, good, healthy relationship, right?

And so what happens is, when there's over-excitation, which chronic stress does, then glutamate because it's excitatory neurotransmitters, just keeps getting pumped out. Pumped out, pumped out, and it hits its receptor in the other side of the synapse, between neurons. That receptor, it's called the NMDA receptor, it's downregulated. So it stops seeing the glutamate as much as it could be, which causes even more glutamate to be produced. And then this glutamate starts to seep out of that cleft and to just general space. And the trouble with it—

Lisa: It's toxic.

Grant: It’s toxic, and this is called glutamate excitotoxicity. So this is not a theory, this is a thing. And it starts to kill brain cells, and the trouble with it, first of all it atrophies neurons, which is never good, and they're not there anymore when they die. But those dying neurons themselves spill out glutamate, into more glutamate into the space, and you get this downward spiral of—

Lisa: Neurodegeneration.

Grant: Neurodegeneration, exactly right. And so the most interesting thing in my mind about this, and this is why I'm so excited about it is because, and you'll see this. So the most obvious is a concussion or mild TBI, traumatic brain injury, is that what causes your initial brain cell death is just an insult, right? You bang your head, right? So you get that glutamate excitotoxicity. The initial effects of the concussion is mild, but the long-term effects of the concussion because of the glutamate excitotoxicity are severe. That's why concussions get worse and worse and worse for time after they've happened.

Lisa: Okay, thanks that somebody's saying that! Because people go to the hospitals with a concussion and they go, no, there's, you've had a mild concussion, go home and rest. And that's it. It's like we there's so much we can do—

Grant: 100% there's so much we can do. And I think we already do it when it gets really severe, right? So if you're in hospital with ischemia, lack of oxygen in the brain from a heart attack, or sometimes in some hospitals, that neonatal hypoxia, so newborns become deprived of oxygen. One way that they deal with that is they induce hypothermia, because cold exposure, especially in those areas, helps reduce glutamate. And they provide intravenous magnesium because magnesium antagonises as a receptor and allows glutamate to get back to its homeostatic levels more quick, and it's highly effective. And the animal studies are very, very convincing. And it's near a clinical practice for things like spinal cord injury.

And then you start to think about other ways that the brain gets damaged. So Alzheimer's and dementia is an interesting one. So for other reasons, including high glucose, we start to lose brain cells. But as soon as you start to do a little bit excitotoxicity, then exacerbates the problem massively. A mild or severe stress, which results in post traumatic stress disorder, is another way of damaging the brain initially through chronic, elevated glutamate but it rolls onto itself. And this is solved, then it's not a problem.

Lisa: This is why stress and trauma—

Grant: And chronic stress, you’re just stressed out, your fight or flight response is up more than it should. And it goes on a long time. The two to three minutes that it's designed to be up for is actually days, months, years, same thing. And so you've got these different pathways, getting brain damage.

Lisa: Brain damage is happening as well.

Grant: When you take, if you if you scan people with major depressive disorder, you autopsy people who've committed suicide, then you see severe atrophy and things like the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, important areas. And it's caused by chromatic toxicity. But the reason why that's interesting is that there's a lot you can do about it. And so we mentioned cold water therapy, just getting in cold water, especially you can breathe slowly and deeply through your nose, which downregulates the nervous system, as medical therapy for depression, right? Yeah. So and potentially I think for TBI and concussion and Alzheimer's and that sort of thing, because it helps with that.

But so is aerobic exercise for the same reason. So is a whole range of nutrient supplements, particularly magnesium, particularly you have to take them in the form of magnesium citrate or magnesium l-threonate. And the clinical trials of magnesium citrate and depression is a more effective medication than an antidepressant. And there is no real side effects. So magnesium, zinc, omega-3 fish oils, B complex vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin D, all anti-inflammatory, antioxidant type.

Lisa: And all stuff that I'm on every day, and my mum's on with her brain injury on, all the time.

Grant: That's right, because and they are downregulating glutamate transmission and achieving a glutamate GABA balance in a better way, as does presence of ketones in your blood occasionally, as does any sort of diet that’s anti-inflammatory, and any diet that's inflammatory, exacerbates the problem. So—

Lisa: So for things like brain injuries, like someone like mom who was in a coma and they were putting a ba- basically a glucose strip into the, you know, into feeding tubes. That's just like causing more damage than if we'd had ketones present if we'd had—

Grant: 100%, because you're, there's also a fuel cri- an accompanying fuel crisis on the brain where it can't—

Lisa: Uptake the glucose.

Grant: —uptake the glucose in the normal fashion, but you can use ketones. So you've got the glutamate part going on, and you've got the glucose fuel crisis. So you know—

Lisa: And isn't the same with Alzheimer's, and they, it's a, when you get insulin resistance, you also get the glucose not being able to be uptaken in the brain, and therefore the brain starving for glucose.

Prog Grant: Yeah. So ketogenic diet for that group is actually a pretty therapeutic diet, that would be the one situation that would be, you know, granted, for keto is hard. I mean, obviously, it's a hard population group to work with them on that, but that doesn’t make it not therapeutic. That's another whole—

Lisa: No, and that's what I put, you know, like with mum’s brain injury, once I started to realize that from the research I was doing. I was doing I had her on as good as possible, keto diet for that first couple of years. Not so much now, because she's got autonomy so it’s harder regulate. But she does do intermittent fasting, and she has got all the supplements, and she has got a very, low-carb diet, as much as I can get it to do it, when she’s not sneaking things around my back. But this is just so crucial for all of these degenerative diseases, and I'm really excited about this glutamate thing, because it's only just come on my radar through your research, and I think that this is perhaps gonna go to the next level. Are you continuing the research on this?

Grant: Yeah, and I'm really interested in, I haven't been that interested in micronutrients through my career. I sort of felt while you're eating whole foods, you know, that should be the template. And I still think that, but I increasingly started to think, especially my colleague, Julia Ruckledge, who's a professor of psychology at University of Canterbury, in her work with micronutrients. She uses fairly high doses, but how effective those have been in her clinical trials with various aspects of mental health. And just as I see also random other outcomes like they just happened to be doing a clinical trial when the Christchurch earthquake happened, and they're only halfway through it. So the randomization wasn't quite complete.

They noticed at the end of the trial that the people in the micronutrient supplementation group, about 19% of those ended up with some sort of post traumatic stress from the Christchurch earthquake.

Lisa: Yep.

Grant: Those without, who are in the placebo group, 69% have post traumatic stress. And this is consistent with other research around, you know, the stress of natural disasters, natural disasters, and that sort of thing. And all sorts of things go wrong in the brain. And it's just, there's a mess of effects. If you could get this from a pharmaceutical, the pharmaceutical company would be all over it. But, you know, inexpensive micronutrients. So, you're interested in those really.

Lisa: So that improves your resilience. Basically, you've got the right vitamins and minerals and things in your body to do the work that's needed to be required. Have you ever heard about the research of ketamine and post traumatic stress? When that ketamine is able to stop the formation of the memories, the traumatic-ness if that's a word?

Grant: Yeah, so, so yes, yeah.

Lisa: Because it's part of that there'll be part of that glutamate thing, wouldn’t it?

Grant: Ketamine is, antagonizes the NDMA receptor, as the same mechanism magnesium roles a play, plays a role on. And so ketamine is a little bit more of a difficult substance to think about it because it's an analgesic and it's sort of that pre-anesthetic and acidic and it really spaces people out. But you're right across PTSD, single treatments have been shown to be highly effective. Single treatments with major depressive or otherwise intractable have shown to be temporarily effective. The most interesting one, for me, I was just talking to an ethicist the other day about this. He was talking about ketamine with chronic pain sufferers, and about half of the people they treat with ketamine with chronic pain, they have an instant and complete alleviation of the chronic pain. And they give them ketamine at a subclinical dose for five straight days. I don't know the ins and outs of that.

Lisa: Because it stops the pathways from—

Grant: I don’t know what, I’m thinking of. Re, re —

Lisa: Receptors.

Grant: —re-tokenizes the receptors, and they go into my pathway for a start, which is the only real known mechanism amongst possible other things, but again, it's astonishing right? So this is otherwise incurable life debilitating chronic pain. Five days of treatment of the subclinical dose, you're not unconscious, you probably can't drive around, but it's gone, not there now. So ketamine is an interesting one. And equally, there's other interesting antagonists of that receptor, which, I am obviously no expert, but other people are starting to do the work and unfortunately become illegal drugs, like some of the solutions like psilocybin magic mushrooms, and, there’s are ayahuasca ceremony type things in South America.

Lisa: I hope they didn’t keep researching those. Just because they're drugs doesn't mean that they haven’t got therapeutic benefits.

Grant: So they have potential therapeutic benefits. And to understand that I think it's going to be that's, people will follow that, however I won't be doing any of that research, of course, but someone will be, and it'll be interesting to follow that as it unfolds. And you understand, just to finish it, and US in the 60s, all that came out. I was there, no one knew what to do with these drugs. So they just made them illegal, which is, you understand at that time, but probably needs to make another think about that.

Lisa: They do. So when we, so all of these things from things like Alzheimer's, to brain injuries, to stre-, chronic stress, to big stressful life events, all cause an excess of glutamate, is that correct?

Grant: Yeah. Because it's just overexcitation. Because it's the excitatory system, and you're overproducing and you haven't got a pathway.

Lisa: So you're in a sympathetic state, you're in a fight or flight response.

Grant: Yes, correct. And then it'll get there. And some of those are, just because there's, well, not the traumatic brain injury and the Alzheimer's aren't because of that. There's other reasons that they branch off. But for the PTSD, for the depression, for the, you know, chronic stress sufferer.

Lisa: This is why stress, one of the reasons why stress is just so damaging to us, isn't it?

Grant: Yeah, we weren't designed for long-term stress. We're designed for acute fight or flight.

Lisa: Yep, yep. And then be now, this is why I think there were the research and information around how to turn on your parasympathetic nervous system at will, breath work, cold therapies, or, saunas, heat therapies, all of these things that we can do to manage our stress levels, because which, you know, stress is probably not going to go away anytime soon. We've got these incredibly stressful lives that we lead now, with thousands of jobs that we have to do and things and things like when my dad passed away eight months ago, that was a stressor I couldn't control.

Grant: It's life, isn't it? Stressors evolve.

Lisa: And that's, I’ve lived a mess of post traumatic stress that, so I'm interested in all this research on how do I undo that damage, if you like? Yeah. How do I how do I manage it? This sort of stuff is really interesting.

Grant: I just think you know that the mainstream medicinal effects of cold therapy, hot therapy, and breath work, especially nasal breathing are now sufficiently well established to be mainstream. These are normal things to engage in your daily life, to manage your life.

Lisa: Absolutely, yeah. I think nasal breathing the work I don't know if you know, Patrick McKeown and James Nestor and stuff, they just absolutely amazing work that and information that we can put into our daily lives to help cope, or to help us cope with this stress that we're under, and the bad food even, can all help, and athletic performance.

Grant: And I love about those guys with that stuff, they've actually, they haven't tried to dumb down the science from the late for the lay public. They treat them with the respect that they deserve, and they just translate it into an understandable manner, but they don't dumb it down. They give you the full noise.

Lisa: I love that.

Grant: I love that. I just think, it's like I ate three plus servings of vegetables and fruit and exercise half an hour a day, and not too much gardening or do it. It's just bullshit. It's just treating us with disdain, and not with the deserve I respect, and respect that we deserve. For where’s the science in that? Now I actually get fitter, the more the better. As long as you manage it. It’s pretty friggin, like, why do they not. And I see cancer patients getting told, I just want to eat whatever makes you feel good.

Lisa: Oh, no.

Grant: No, I want the best possible information. Thank you.

Lisa: Yes. And not eating cookies while you're having chemo. You know, and that's what they're doing. And it's just like, do you not? Are you not aware? Have you looked at them for metabolic you know, approach to—

Grant: Often, the excuse that, the excuse that Lisa is, are well, they won't do it so there's no point telling them. That’s just not good enough, right?

Lisa: I know, and that is just treating you, and I've experienced this unfortunately firsthand, treating you like an idiot because you're not a professor.

Grant: Yeah.

Lisa: Just because I don't have a ‘professor’ in front of my name does not mean I'm an idiot. And don't treat me like an idiot as if I don't know anything and that is unfortunately the way you get treated in the system.

Grant: The health system’s not good for that. And they try and use jargon to bamboozle.

Lisa: Yeah. Doesn't work with me. And that's not fair.

Grant: Yeah.

Lisa: When I'm teaching people or working with people, I find that it's absolutely crucial that I explain the mechanisms of action behind why I'm giving you this information. And I try to keep it to a level that I don't overwhelm people, but I want them to understand why they're doing this in order to make, because then they're more likely to go, ‘Ah, actually, I get it now’. Just telling you that stress is bad for you, you should meditate for a day, but I don't tell you why. What are the mechanisms, and what is this actually doing in your body, then you're less likely to do it, you know?

Grant: Just today, and the reason I'm late with you is that I had a group of first year electrical apprenticeships. Young guys from 17 to 20 here at university, and we did today's Stafford is a fitness stuff with them, but I did a bunch of content. You know, frankly, I can get my master's level. These are smart guys. Probably they're interested in it. That's great. Yeah, and no one's treated them like that, they never had got tread lightly by some of the teachers office at school. They didn't get interested in those areas. But you know, like—

Lisa: Yeah, let's treat people as if they have got a brain in the head. Just because they don't know the jargon. You can explain the jargon. And when you understand, one of my great podcast loves at the moment is Professor Andrew Huberman, you know him from The Huberman Lab?

Grant: Yeah. Following that, he's done a great job of just sort of sitting on the couch and having a, no graphs, nice. Pictures, just, it's deep scientific lectures about cortisol and stress exes. And—

Lisa: Yeah, and even if you're not, they haven't spent a decade studying this stuff, you can you can understand how. He makes it very—

Grant: High grade neuroscience and medicine just available to the public, I love it.

Lisa: I know. It's so awesome. That's why you've got to get your podcast back up.

Grant: Yeah, yeah, I’m gonna get it going. You gotta remind us to get on your one and get reinvigorated.

Lisa: Exactly. Because we need, we need to, we need it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. We need it from people who are at the cutting edge of academia, of academia, the cutting edge of research to deliver it to us straight, rather than it going through the zigzag of ten, you know, professionals along the way, getting dumbed down to the point where it's of no use to anybody.

Grant: Yeah. And then it goes into the Ministry of Health and comes out on another format altogether.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s just complete bullshit. If you just look at the whole, you know, vitamin C recommendations, they've been trying for years, the scientists to get it, the recommended daily allowance, recommended daily amount that you meet to have put up just a little bit. Yeah, but no, we can't do the head. You know, even though the science says that that's not enough.

Grant: Well, I mean, the entirety of nutrition dietary guidelines, in a complete state, which is a drag so far as I'm concerned, but yeah.

Lisa: Professor Grant Schofield, you've been amazing today. I've really loved this conversation. I've taken up a heap of your time, I would love to have you on, obviously, for more sessions, if we can. Because we haven't even touched the sides, really, and there's a heck of a lot. Is there any last things that you want to share? What are you, you're a couple of takeaways from today in our conversation today that you really want to spotlight in?

Grant: I still think that. Yeah, your body wants to be in a state of the scientific ord isw homeostasis, but in a state of balance, I guess with the world that lives in. But the world is designed to live in, needs to have some mesh, or be at least somewhere close to their current world, and often those are a long way apart.

So I think that's probably the major issue isn't it is that we can't reach this homeostasis. So we end up with either glucose or insulin being really high as sort of global things, or the soul glutamate thing running amok. And it's entirely predictable, then, on that basis. So we're actually not going to be as well functioning as we would like. And so then the question is, what can you do about it? The thing is, we always put it back on us which is good, what doesn't need to start with us but I think we forget we live in you know, most people listen to this live in a democracy. And part of a democracy is everyone actually has a say. So, you know, my hope is that, you know, everyone you guys out there, become a little bit more vocal about that. I think that's a really important thing.

There is a democracy around health as a, sooner we'll be, we get to decide like the country decides. And actually we do eventually overwhelm the food industry, that pharmaceutical drug That sort of stuff, it becomes that important, it's become pretty obvious that, especially if you're young people, we can do so much better. And we just need to. And so that's up to everyone, not just me. I'll keep trying, guys.

Lisa: Please, please do. Because at least you have the titles, the credibility, the name, the books, the stuff behind you to actually make a massive impact. But if we collectively all put our two cents and so to speak—

Grant: Yeah, that's miles more than I can do. And just on that, we've been, I've written the books, it's great, have a look at those.

Lisa: Yeah, list out your books, and where can people find you.

Grant: So this, www.whatthefatbook.com. And it's got the What the Fat, What the Fast, What the Face. The latest one is What the Fit recipes. What the Fit sport performance. I'm really incredibly proud of me and the rest of the team, it's not a solo effort. Those put those together, especially Caryn and Craig Roger. We've started a company called PreKure. It's been going a few years now. And we've really concentrated on filling a sort of treatment gap and health and the health sector with health coaching. This time health coaching and nutrition and mental health aspects as well. In my opinion, if you're passionate about health, then you don't need to go to university for 10 years to make a difference.

There's some stuff you need to learn, especially on the coaching aspects around how to help people find the most for themselves, meaning where they're at, and those things and those are good fun skills to learn both for yourself and your family, but also for helping other people. So, PreKure was sort of felt such, prevention is cure, PreKure p, pre with a K.

Lisa: P-R-E-K-U-R-E.

Grant: Yeah, dot com. We're really passionate about helping you help yourself with your health, but more than that, helping help others and that sort of help, you know, taking us out of, taking an active part on this issue for us as around, you know, take advantage of democracy, but also take the advantage to help you know, when you get new knowledge and it's useful. Share it, for God's sake.

Lisa: Share it, yeah.

Grant: That's gonna chip away at the food industry and the other forces that tend to undermine any attempt at human wellbeing.

Lisa: Change and yeah, and I think this, you know, the health I mean, obviously, you had in the health coaching space, and this is a new burgeoning area. We need more people coming into this area that can share this sort of knowledge and bring it out there.

Grant: And, you know, how better to keep you on track and helping you with things for friends and family and other people around your community rather than having to go to the clinic and the doctor, and it's all sickness orientated.

Lisa: For 15 minutes if you're lucky, yeah.

Grant: But someone who's actually got a genuine interest in how you're going and wants to help you. And, you know, so I think we'll go that way. I'm really looking forward to that.

Lisa: Yeah, let's keep working on this mission. I think we're on the same mission. Professor Grant, you're just awesome. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed our conversation today, and we'll hopefully have you on again soon.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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You’ve heard it before: go hard, go long. But do we need to go hard all the time? Many people think that harder is better. However, overtraining and overexertion can reduce your gains and also be detrimental to your long-term health. Let go of this mindset and take on a healthier view of your body.

Legendary long-distance running athlete Lorraine Moller joins us in this episode to talk about how training and racing should not be about winning at the expense of your own body. It's all about your personal journey of learning more about yourself and growing from it. With the Lydiard approach, Lorraine shares how her career was mostly injury-free. Her body's performance is stellar, proving the merits of her training!

If you want to know how you can adopt a holistic approach to your training, then this episode is for you.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how the Lydiard approach to training is a safer and healthier way. 2. Discover the ways we can achieve peak performance and how to remove the obstacles towards it. 3. Understand the ways your body adapts and why it's essential to listen to it.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * On the Wings of Mercury by Lorraine Moller * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + Episode 27 - Gary Moller - Functional Nutrition Consultant, Elite Age-Level Mountain Biker + Episode 189 - Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + Episode 183 - Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + Episode 194 - Inside the Mind of New Zealand Olympic Runner Rod Dixon * Connect with Lorraine: Lydiard Foundation | Email

Episode Highlights [05:19] Lorraine’s Background * Lorraine grew up naturally active and part of nature. She was engaged in the community and local athletics. * At some point, Lorraine became more interested in her school running events and just kept going. * During the 60s and 70s, being a professional athlete wasn’t a career choice. It was commonly discouraged and seen as for men. * When Lorraine’s talent was discovered, she was brought to a neighbouring town to train. She competed against women a lot older than her. * By 16, Lorraine was representing New Zealand. Listen to the full episode to learn about Lorraine’s running journey!

[14:37] The Lydiard Approach to Training * The Lydiard approach to training is primarily based on endurance training. * Building your aerobic capacity is the core of the Lydiard approach. * In a way, Lydiard is the father of periodisation. He found what worked and incorporated it into training. * Lorraine shares that you need to understand the principles first then apply your own perspective in training.

[19:52] What’s the Overall Picture? * Some people get lost when looking at the details. You need to know the overall picture first. * When you don’t understand the overall picture, you may overshoot the mark and get burnt out. * We have a culture that thinks more is better. * But training can give you more than the capacity to win. * It’s really about the inner journey taking place and what you’re learning along the way.

[24:25] Take It as a Personal Journey * As you're growing, you are influenced by external factors like other people's expectations. * But you’ll also reach a point where you start dismantling these expectations to uncover your true self. * Running was a choice Lorraine made for herself. Through this, she developed a deep connection with her father. * When Lorraine didn’t do that well, she kept things in perspective. * She always came back to being in love with the journey of the race.

[28:51] From Track Athletics to Long-Distance Running * In Lorraine’s experience, long-distance running doesn’t make you slower. * You’ll need to do the work to run faster, but long-distance running lets you sustain your fastest possible pace. * The body responds to whatever stimuli it receives, which is why a holistic approach is vital for achieving the best results. * The Lydiard training, for example, has different phases for training that consider more than just your endurance. * Don’t neglect the foundational elements of mobility, coordination, and strength.

[39:51] Let Your Body Adapt * The Lydiard training first started with helping people with cardiac problems fit enough to finish a marathon. * The approach is considerably different from the ones professional athletes consider. But, the Lydiard training is safer long-term. * People can adapt to different situations. You can direct your body into what you want to be. * Pay attention to your body, especially when it gives danger signals. Learn to back off and give yourself recovery time. * Burnout and overtraining usually come from a lack of confidence and trust in your own body.

[46:46] What Keeps Us from Peak Performance * Hard work is redundant. Things don't have to be hard — just do the work! * Lorraine feels a state of flow and happiness in races. The flow state is peak performance manifesting as coordination of body, heart, mind, and spirit. * People often don’t reach this state of flow because of tension and excess energy. * If you don’t give yourself time to rest when your body needs it, it will become detrimental to your health over time. * You need to identify the fine line between putting your body under strain to get stronger versus pushing it until you break.

[56:22] Don’t Let Age Stop You * People need challenges and goals no matter their age. * Invite new experiences and learnings into your life. * Don’t let age stop you from living your best life. * As we get older, we also accumulate more wisdom. * Society needs to acknowledge the value of elders more from that perspective.

[1:08:11] The Strength and Beauty of Our Bodies * You don’t need to be perfect; you just need to inch your way forward on your own time. * There is a way back even if you’ve beaten your body with overtraining. * Your body is strong enough to regenerate itself.

7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode ‘What I did with the Lydiard system was look at what were the principles, not looking at the hard and fast rules. Because as soon as you start looking at rules you have limited yourself, and it doesn't work that way. It's an experiment of one. Your journey as an athlete is completely unique.’

‘I think the journey of the athlete is a wonderful way to get to know yourself and to be able to tap that in the knowledge and to learn.’

‘That's the beauty I think of the Lydiard training is that It is holistic. It puts all the energy systems and every type of training response in its rightful place. So that you can be at your peak on the day that it counts.’

‘And that's why you go on principles. So you look at what you're trying to achieve, and then how best to achieve it based on the level of that person.’

‘You want a cooperative relationship with your own body and it will give you the information that it has and which is better than if you're trying to perform to these external measures.’

‘We approach a lot of the things that we wish to do, or the things we wish to create in our lives from a state of fear… And then we can't get into this natural flow. ’

‘I think that as we get older, our world should be getting bigger, not smaller. You know, and, and I do think that a lot of what we attribute to old age is just bad habit.’

About Lorraine Lorraine Moller is the only woman to have run all of the 20th century Olympic marathons for women. She is a 4-time Olympian, Olympic bronze medalist, world track and field finalist, multiple Commonwealth Games track medalist, and winner of 16 major international marathons, including the Boston Marathon.

Lorraine’s career started as an exceptional 14-year-old middle-distance runner, coached by John Davies. This continued into a 28-year stellar career as an undefeated master runner. Her wide range of accomplishments earned her title as ‘New Zealand's greatest women's distance runner’.

Lorraine credits her mostly injury-free career and high-performance longevity to the Lydiard training approach combined with her unique ‘inside-out process' philosophy towards competition.

Since retiring in 1996, Lorraine has helped establish charity running events in Cambodia, Mongolia and East Timor, served as vice-president of Hearts of Gold and NGO in Japan and co-founded the Lydiard Foundation, which educates coaches and athletes on endurance training. Lorraine also wrote her autobiography, On the Wings of Mercury, which became #2 on the New Zealand Best Seller List.

“Sports is a powerful spiritual path. When one seeks their most excellent self, they invite the noblest of human qualities into their lives.”

Interested in Lorraine’s work? Check out the Lydiard Foundation.

Reach out to Lorraine through lorraine@lydiardfoundation.org.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn why it's vital to listen to their bodies.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by www.lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hello everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits this week. Today, I have another athlete to guest, for a change. It's not a doctor or scientist, it's an athlete. This is an incredible athlete. One of my role models from childhood, Lorraine Moller. Lorraine, if you don't know her, she's an absolute legend. She's a four-time Olympian. She won the Boston Marathon, that’s a serious marathon, that one. She has won the Osaka marathon four times. She was in the first four marathons for women in the Olympics, which is an incredible thing. She also was a middle distance runner before doing marathon.

She's also the sister of my good friend, Gary Moller, who I've had on the show previously. Lorraine, she has her insights on what it is to be an elite athlete. Lorraine is still training athletes today as part of the Lydiard Foundation. After Lydiard she came through that school, of Arthur Lydiard's training style. It was really interesting to talk to her and sort of go head to head on ideas around coaching. She is available there for help if anyone wants to find out more.

Yeah, really interesting conversation with a very, on-to-it lady. I hope you enjoy this conversation. I certainly did. It's really nice when you get to meet your heroes from yesteryear, so to speak, or when you were a kid, and they’re just as cool as you thought they would be. Before we go over to the show, make sure you check out our patron program. If you haven't joined already on the podcast family, we would love you to be a part of our VIP family. There are a lot of member benefits when you do, if you wouldn't mind helping us out. Keeping this great content coming to ear, we've been doing it for five and a half years now. It's a globally top 200 ranked podcast now on health, fitness and medicine.

We need your help to stay there, we need your help to keep bringing this content out. It's a huge labor of love. I've been doing it for five and a half years, and guys, I can really do with a bit of a hand. So for the price of a cup of coffee a month, it's really a very small contribution. If you would like to become a member, please go over to patron.lisatamati.com.

I'd like to also remind you to head on over to our website, www.lisatamati.com. Check out our image genetics program. This is all about understanding your genetics and how to optimize them, and this is our flagship program, the one that we've been doing for a number of years, we've taken literally hundreds of people through this program. It's been a huge success for people changing their lives and helping them optimize so they’re no longer doing the whole trial and error thing or the one size fits all. Medicine and fitness and all of these areas, nutrition should all be personalized now according to your genetics, and that's what you should expect from your health professionals. This is a very powerful program that can help you sort of optimize that so go and check that out at www.lisatamati.com and hit the ‘Work With Us’ button.

We also have our NMN, our longevity supplement, an anti-ageing supplement that I'm recently started bringing into the country and from New Zealand or Australia. I've teamed up with molecular biologist Dr. Elena Seranova. This is an independently-certified, scientist backed and developed product. This is a longevity supplement that is aimed at upregulating the sirtuin genes, which are longevity genes in the body and science, it’s too complicated to name here.

But I would love you to check out those two episodes that I've done with Dr. Elena Seranova. Also, head on over to nmnbio.nz. That’s N-M-N-bio.nz, if you'd like more information and more on the science behind it, or reach out to me and I can send you a whole lot of information around it. I've been on it now for over seven months and my mom's been on it too for that period of time. I've had huge changes. Actually my whole family has, and we've all had different things that it's really helped us with. It's working on a number of levels, so make sure you check that out. Right over to the show now with Lorraine Moller.

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Today, I have an amazing woman to guest, certainly one of my role models, Lorraine Moller, welcome to the show. Fantastic to have you here with me.

Lorraine Moller: Thank you, Lisa. Fantastic to be here with you.

Lisa: I'm excited for this conversation already. Before we got recording, we already dealt with some deep topics so who knows where this conversation is going to go, but I think it will go pretty deep. You are a legend in the world of running. You have so many, four times Olympian you've won the Boston Marathon, you've won the Osaka marathon three times, you're an author, you're still involved with running. Lorraine, can you just give us a little bit of your background for starters? When did you realize that you were this amazing, incredible athlete? What was your childhood like? Should we go back that far?

Lorraine: Usually, not in my childhood, although, you know, we were brought up in a time where we were naturally active and very just a part of nature and engaged in the community and local athletics and swimming and you know, all those things. Walked their feet and just went to the beach on the weekends and got sunburned. All those sorts of things. So it was a very lovely, free, close-to-nature sort of upbringing in my little town of Putāruru, right in the middle of the North Island, and where everybody knew everybody and it was just pretty easy-living, and our needs were pretty simple.

Those were the times when we had the quarter-acre section, with the garden out the back and like okay, go get a cabbage for tea. So you'd go cut one and bring it in. So it was, yeah, I suppose it sounds idyllic, but in certain terms that was. It was just a fabulous basis for growing up healthy. I had my trials as a kid. I was in the hospital a few times, and just that separation, and just the emotional eggs have been taken away from my family for long periods of time. It's very lonely.

I think that was, I think, you know, we have things that happen to us, and they sort of set you up. They set your story up, and then it's like, okay, go see what you make of it. So I had, I think, running for me was a real freedom. Something that just, I don't think it was something that I really decided to do. I just think it's something that took me.

Lisa: It happened to you.

Lorraine: One of the key events was, when I went to high school, and we graduated from the little kiddies athletics, doing 50 yards, 100 yards, you know, yeah, I met all that was. We graduated to being able to do the full 40 yards. In my first full 40 yard race at the local club, I could beat the girls who beat me in the sprint. It took me a little bit longer, but I've got your number, you know. So I was really excited by that.

So I started to get really keen and show up during the school events, and I won just about everything in the school events.

Lisa: Just naturally talented at the event, sort of.

Lorraine: Yeah, but you know, at that time, and that would be in the 60s, there was, it wasn't like the girl thing to do. It was nothing in your vocabulary. The four-bill athlete or woman-athlete, professional athlete, even, that just didn't exist back then. That was not a career choice, being an athlete. It was even discouraged, somewhat. It was considered as a man's sport. If you did too much of it, you would become manly and—

Lisa: Your uterus might fall out, as Catherine told me once.

Lorraine: That’s universal, you know. People tell you that all across the world I think, that yeah, that was just a popular meme. You had to wear clean underwear in case you got run over and taken to the hospital, they find out you've got dirty underwear on. Those things sort of just become popular culture, but nobody really thinks about how true they are or whether they really apply. We just accept them.

I accepted that as a girl, we didn't have longer events, that we didn't have official events. The cross country was unofficial, usually. So we would have a men's race. Then they would have a little short bill’s race, but, you know, that's just the way that it was, I didn't think I was disadvantaged in any way. You just get on with what's available and go like it, and I loved it.

Lisa: How did you develop, because even back in the 60s and 70s, there wasn't any official thing that you could go to. How did you actually get—I mean your later career was phenomenal. How did you actually bridge that? Was it a time change too that in the 70s, things started to open up, and or how did that sort of unfold?

Lorraine: People were really kind and the club system was very nurturing. So as soon as they realized I had some talent, they took me in hand. I was taken to a neighboring town of Tokoroa, which was sort of like a big town, and introduced to John Davies, who was the bronze medalist from the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo. They wanted me to have a proper coach. I was introduced into the Lydiard training theory, from about the age of 14, and for races, et cetera. My event was the 80 yards. I really loved it, and so laps of the track.

I also did cross country. But those events I competed in, there were no junior woman. So I was competing against women who were probably 18 years my senior. I did go to my first national championships and the senior women's at the age of 14. Yeah, and I made the final. I came last in the final. We're like a mate. We're pretty darn good. You know?

Lisa: Yeah. You were 14?

Lorraine: Yeah, sort of, like hanging on, I can remember coming around the straight. I had two people behind me, and I could just see them going, ‘I'm not letting this kid beat me.’ Yeah, threw me off, but you know. I was going—representing New Zealand from the time I was 16. That provided opportunity, and that was so damn exciting. Just to be going overseas, and wearing the silver uniform, and getting on a plane and going somewhere, and it was just the most amazing time, and I absolutely loved it. I was put into a competition at a time when I was young enough not to have any respect.

Lisa: You had no idea what was coming at you yet.

Lorraine: So I sort of figured I could run with the best of them. Yeah, so that was sort of part of my make-up or my set up. Which really, you know, it just went from there, until finally, I sort of took off on my own and went to the US and just sort of, seeking greener pastures. That makes a big wide world and yeah.

Lisa: Oh, wow. So tell me a little bit, like Arthur Lydiard. What was he like? Tell us a little bit, you know, so I've heard you say on articles or something, there's a bit of a misrepresentation of how he trained. What was his actual philosophy as an athlete that was actually in under him for a while? What was he like, and what sort of training regime did you have, and how did that develop you?

Lorraine: Yeah, I think I was really, really fortunate to grow up in New Zealand, and his system was pretty much adopted by the New Zealand running culture, and I think still has—is part of the culture, yeah. It's based on endurance training. So that's the first thing that John Davies did, was give me a training program. He used to write it, handwrite it on a— and send it to me by mail. So I would get a letter with my training program written down. It would be so exciting.

I ran with my dad. So my dad didn't want me going out there by myself, or we ran on the bush a lot. We got lost a lot, but wouldn't have me there by myself. Although I'm sure if I'd navigated, we wouldn't have got lost, but anyway. Yeah, I mean, we just—and we had a great time. It was really fun for me to get to know my dad. I don't think I would have developed that closeness without having that running. It was just fantastic. So we just ended up doing longer and longer runs. It was just building up mileage, just getting some aerobic base, which is really the crux of the Lydiard training, is that you build your aerobic capacity, and that's the main engine.

Lisa: Yeah. Because a lot of them, you know, like I had Rod Dixon on last week, on the show. He's also trained under that. Of course, a lot of the great runners that have come out of New Zealand, and there's been many, have trained on that system. Then, you know, was it a real high mileage system? Like, was it—is there anything that you do different now? Because I know, you're still involved with Arthur Lydiard? The groups that you're taking through now, is there any change in the approach that you’ve had? Because you know, a lot of the listeners out there are runners that are listening to this. So is there anything that you've learned along the way that you do differently now?

Lorraine: No, no, the Lydiard system was sound. I mean, the only thing was, as an athlete, I'd come off a season and then I'd go, ‘I'm gonna just train harder than I've ever trained before,’ and then I jump in and overdo it and sort of mess it up. That's what we do, we overtrain. So the Lydiard system itself, I think if you just take the way that he put it together, and the, he was the grandfather of periodization, we didn't call it periodization. The exercise physiologist came along a lot later and then just started to put the jargon onto it, and all there is.

Arthur was very practical. So it's just what worked, it was about 60 years in the making. So you will find Lydiard, that he evolved it with just trial and error. Then, as more people started to do research, he started to incorporate other things. But he was really like, just what works, and what he put together worked really well. What I did with the Lydiard system was look at what were the principles, not looking at the hard and fast rules here, because as soon as you start looking at rules, you have limited yourself, and it doesn't work that way. It's an experiment of one, and your journey as an athlete is completely unique. You occupy your own place, and space and time that nobody else can occupy. If you can respect that, and get away from any sort of cookie-cutter staff.

Lisa: I love that personalization approach. That's what I'm heavily into now. It's not like we have access to genetic testing and things like that now, where we can actually tailor things to people's genetics even. But back then that wasn't the case. But to make it your own, so here's the framework, and then you make it yours. That fits with you and your style of being, in your style of life, and in everything that fits to you, rather than just forcing yourself into the confines of just, this is black and white. I think that that's pretty insightful, especially back then. Yeah.

Lorraine: Yeah. So what I'm teaching now, and I teach courses through the Lydiard Foundation, two coaches, on how to apply the Lydiard training. The big thing, I think, is to look at things and the overall picture because the, you might say the devils in the details, but the details can completely tell, like the devil, the wrong story So it's very easy for people to, and most common, I think, to overshoot the mark. To put in too much. Then if you put in too much energy into the task at hand, you will get the opposite of what you intended.

Lisa: Yeah, overtraining and burnout.

Lorraine: Also we live in this culture where we think more is better. He said also, we pander to outsourcing our information, and so not tapping into this incredible vehicle that we have that can synthesize and put the information together that is specifically tailor-made to you. That is there. It's innate within all of us. We're just not tapping it. I think the journey of the athlete is a wonderful way to get to know yourself and to be able to tap that in the knowledge and to learn.

So the focus, and this happened to me, during my own running, there was, initially you're motivated by the—just winning or getting a faster time and all those kinds of things. Then you think, well, what is it really payback? It's pretty silly, you know, you're all just running around the house and in circles. Somebody goes, ‘Oh, I'm really great, because I finished in front of you.’ You get all worked up. Does that really matter, in the big scheme of things?

Well, in certain terms, it doesn't. The exercise is, and I just gave a talk to our advanced classes on the hero's journey. The hero's journey is that the focus is then on the inner journey that's taking place. Yeah, and is a path for us to get to know ourselves. Socrates said, ‘Know thyself.’ It's really sound advice, because, I mean, what else are you going to do to see, you know, you go through life, and then suddenly you get to the other end?

Lisa: You don’t know what the hell it was about. I mean, this is, this is exactly in line with what I like to talk about, which is like, you know, that we, we learn so much when we do these, you know, athletic endeavors, and I don't care whether you're good, or you're really not talented, and you don't have any ability. It's all about yours—your personal journey. That's why any athlete who's just starting out and doing the first kilometer, you know, is on a journey, to get to know their own body, their own mind, what they're capable of, and we find it, you know, and it's, I hate comparing, you know, like, the actual winning of races and stuff is amazing, but how many of us are actually going to have a career like yours, where you're actually at the top of the podium?

For 99% of the people, it's about what they learn along the way, the health benefits that they gather from the training, the strength—mentally. All of these aspects are just even more important, I think, than the, getting the gold medal put around your neck, or the silver or the bronze. It is much more about a personal journey for most people. I mean, you as an elite athlete, at the top of the pyramid, so to speak, did you find that as well? Has it had a bigger implication on your entire life and your life philosophies than just winning? Part of it?

Lorraine: Oh, yeah. In the end, though, the inner journey became more important to me than the outer journey. In a way, I think with life, you have your experiences and you're influenced by your parents and your upbringing and your ancestors and all the rest. So we have all these influences that make up who we think we are I think then—and then we go into our older adult life, and we proceed accordingly with this concept of self, which then I think starts to happen. You start to dismantle that concept themselves, and you start gradually stripping it away, so that, hopefully, when you're ready to go out the other end, you have connected with the essence of who you truly are. Not just all these roles and the expectations and put on yourself, you know.

Lisa: Was it for you,was there a lot of expectation, you know, like, I had a lot of expectation in my early years from my dad, who I loved dearly, and wanted to impress and wanted to please and so I had a lot of expectation all the way through. So a lot of the things that I did weren't necessarily what I wanted to be doing. They were things that I felt compelled to do, or expected to do. Was that a part of your journey with running? Or was that more, you just had this passion and actual, like Rod just loved running. You know? What was it like for you? Was it a cut and dried thing that this was a passion of yours, or was it more of an expectation that you would—because you were so good?

Lorraine: Yeah. No, it was mine. I mean, it was completely driven by me, instigated and driven by me. My family was really supportive. My dad got on board with it. So my dad got into running because I was a teenager that got into running. He figured he was like the canary in the coal mine. If there was—if I was doing too much or overdoing it, you know, and he did the same as me. Well, then he would clog up before I would. That was very nice of him. He did, you know he actually died while he was out running. That was the way he wanted to exit. So he did.

Lisa: Well, yeah, it's never a good thing to go. But if you're going to go, I suppose doing something and being healthy until the last moment is the way that most of us would like to exit this world.

Lorraine: My parents were, oh, they were obviously proud. I mean, you get out there, and especially when you're in an Olympics, or Commonwealth Games, or something that's really big for your country, you do feel the expectation of your country and how you do and you know it really matters. It's quite personal. Sometimes when I didn't do that, well, and you get refreshed.

Lisa: That's harsh.

Lorraine: Yeah. Yeah, it is. You just, you know—I don't know, you get over it with pursued— you realize that you have to keep things in perspective. I think one thing I could always come back to and just be in love with the journey of the race and yeah. That it didn't go away.

Lisa: That passion stayed right throughout you. So let's talk now a little bit about the actual—some of the highlights of your career because this is like for most of us, we're never gonna get to do these sorts of things at this level. What was it like to go to the Olympics? What's it like to compete in the first marathons that women were allowed to do in the Olympics? What was that like for you?

Lorraine: Well, the first marathons, my foray into marathons was another thing. That was sort of serendipity in a way. It just sort of came to me, and maybe there was a certain, I don't know, maybe openness, the new experience, I think that yeah, that just led me into different sorts of places. But what happened in—when I left school, and I was already a nationally recognized runner as a high school kid, and what to do? I didn't know what to do, so I decided to go to phys ed school because it was the closest thing that I could think of that’s for a woman.

Lisa: It is, exactly. That’s all we had back then.

Lorraine: Yeah, yeah, you just, that's what sporty girls do, become a phys ed teacher. Gary was, my brother, was already at the phys ed school underneath. So it seemed really easy to hit off down to the need. I thought that was really great because it was really a long way from home. Yeah, you know, and I just loved being a student. I just thought that was so fantastic.

So the first day I was there at the phys ed school I got, I was standing on the steps of the phys ed school, and I was sort of looking to my left and looking to my right, and I didn't know where anything was or which way to go for my run. This group of guys came running past. They were a bunch of lunchtime runners, and some of them are very good runners. One of them looked up and saw me standing there in my running shoes and shorts and said, ‘Hey, chick, you gotta come and run with the boys today.’

Okay, there's an invitation I can't refuse. Down the steps, I glommed on to the back of this group, I could barely keep up. But we did this run. The next day, I was there again, and the next day, and so I became the girl that ran with this group of guys.

Lisa: Crazy girl.

Lorraine: Yeah, and they sort of took me under their wing. So I did all the rounds with them. Sunday was like the Needham version of the white tacori run, was the white Eddie's. It’s just, just, you run out somewhere over a mountain and down the other side and you’ve gotten 20 miles, you know. So I started doing those every Sunday with the guys. As a 800-meter runner, you know, I was building this incredible base, and I just got stronger and stronger.

Lisa: Did it make you slower doing the long stuff, for the actual short track races?

Lorraine: I'm glad you asked. Yeah. No, that's not true, that. Yeah. Endurance running does not make you slow. No, it does not. Though, you do need to do the faster work to bring on your speed. But the endurance will enable you, eventually, to be able to sustain your fastest possible pace. That's the basis of endurance. So nearly all events over two minutes would derive their energy mostly from aerobic means, right? So the greater aerobic capacity you have, the greater capacity you have for any event over two minutes.

Lisa: But what about, I've never been fast, that’s why we’re long. So I don't have a comparison really, of having lost speed because I never had any to begin with. But doing the super long stuff, you know, the ultra marathon distances, I got dreadfully slow when it comes to the shorter distances over time. I always put that down to my muscle, fast twitch fibers mainly tuned into slow twitch fibers.

Now, actually, like, in the last five years, where I stopped doing the ultra marathons, and I've been concentrating more on shorter, sharper, I'm still not fast by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm a heck of a lot faster than I used to be over the short distance. So even in your 50s, you can start to go back the other way. But it’s interesting to hear you say that, no, you don't find that. Because that's—yeah, interesting.

Lorraine: With some caveats in matters that, if you—your body will respond to what you give it. In terms of training, stimulus response, so what training is, you are giving the body a specific stimulus to get a specific response from the body. It will do that really well. So the thing about the Lydiard pyramid is that you build the endurance, but you don't do that ad infinitum. Right? So then you go on and then you go through the faster phases and you develop the muscles on faster twitch and the different ones, right through to your peak events.

So, we have quite a few ultra runners who come and do our coaching courses. They get in and they get really excited about doing the phases and getting the full development. That's the beauty I think of the Lydiard training, is that it is holistic. It puts all the energy systems and every type of training response in its rightful place, so that you can be at your peak on the day that counts. What I find with a lot of ultra people is that they've just lost their flexibility and range of motion because they haven't practiced it.

Lisa: That's definitely a big part of our training and how we coach—a lot of strength and a lot of mobility, in proprioception, work and coordination and drills and things that traditionally, when I, because when I started back in the dark ages to when we had no idea, and I certainly had no coaching back in the day, I just ran and ran long, because I wasn't very fast, so just run longer than everybody else and I was good at that.

But now I understand and what you know, that whole mobility piece of the puzzle is absolutely crucial, and the drills and the form and the strength training or all the foundational elements, to be able to run the mileage, you know, it's like a pyramid for us, how we how we build it. So yeah, I totally agree, and I think most ultra runners neglect that part. That's where they come unstuck to some degree. You get very slow and stiff. There's reasons for that. But you managed to finish the distance, but the quality sometimes goes down with the length of time you’re out there.

Lorraine: Also, if you're out there for a heck of a long time, you don't want to spend much time in the air. You don't need a lot of upwards motion, or that long, beautiful stride, et cetera. You develop a bit of a shuffle, it's just being efficient at the distance that you're doing, yes.

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Lisa: Yeah, that's really fascinating. It is like, I did, like I said at the beginning, everything wrong that you could possibly do wrong, I think in my early career. It was just like, go long, go hard, though, you know, but no strikes, no mobility, no drills. I didn't know what running form was. I just ran. Incredible that you can still achieve great distances and that way, but it's certainly not healthy. It was very high mileage in those early days, and that has its own toll.

Now we try to train people efficiently because most of the people that we training are also, you know, got careers and kids and jobs and stressors. So we find that you can't train them like you would a 20-year-old professional athlete when they're a 45-year-old mum with three children and a full-on career. Then you're going to break them if you have that high mileage model. So it's much more about time efficiency and getting the best results that they can get with the level of stress that they're already under.

So yes, it's just really interesting to compare notes on all this, especially as you've come from the elite level, in a lot of the things that I find with people who are not in that elite group, don't respond the same way that elite runners would, like when you were doing your top level stuff, the amount of mileage and manner of training that you would have been able to cope with is not what your average person can cope with, because you would have been focused on that solely.

Lorraine: I think if you look historically at Lydiard training, he started coaching the first joggers group in the early 60s. So the story is that he was invited, after his Olympic successes, to the Tamaki Yacht Club to talk to the businessman there about training, etc. He was asking them about their own levels of fitness. A whole bunch of them said, ‘Well, we can't do any, our doctors told us to take it easy, because we've had cardiac arrest’. And Arthur’s like, you know typical, Arthur, you know, ‘That's absolute rubbish. If you guys want to start jogging with me, I will teach you how to run a marathon.’

He had quite a group, of which quite a few of them were cardiac patients, and had this running group. He got them to run a marathon in about nine months. You're talking more than a couch potato? Yeah.

Lisa: Exactly. He approached that differently than he would with his elite athlete, obviously?

Lorraine: He had to, because if they couldn't start out on 100 miles a week and he realized that you can't expect middle-aged men getting run out to do that kind of mileage because they spend so much more time on their feet, that they're actually doing a lot more work than an elite runner, yeah. So then he changed the distance to duration.

Lisa: Yes, that's what we do too mostly, duration, because then that's more of it. Because otherwise if you run your good marathons at incredibly fast times, but the person who is at the other end of the marathon is taking six hours, they're going to be athletes for twice as long or longer. That doesn't equate from an equivalent point of view. That'syeah, so that's exactly what we do. Yeah.

Lorraine: Physiologically, it's about the same based on duration. Not based on distance. If you spend two hours out there, and you're just jogging along, and that's as fast as you can go, you will have about the same effect as somebody who runs at the same effort but is heck of a lot faster. The system is adaptable to all levels of runner. That's why you go on principles. You look at what you're trying to achieve, and then how best to achieve it based on the level of their person, but, you know, the—we're all, physiologically, we all basically work the same.

We all have—we metabolize fats and glycogen and have the same energy systems and they are invoked at the same perceived effort or level of effort and can be developed. We all have this system of adaptation. We all are losing cells and regenerating them all the time. That is basically so, if you're becoming a new person, like they say, maybe 95% of our bodies are replaced every year, just cells dying and new ones coming on. Or in seven years you get a completely new you. So it doesn't really matter, the point is that, can you direct who you are going to be in the view. Yeah, you can. Athletes know that.

Lisa: Yeah. That's what our reputation is all about and why we do it, that’s why we train so that we get that reputation. In heavier like—what do you do with people, because we get a lot of athletes who are just head through the wall, type A personalities who want to go harder than what their bodies, and I'm putting myself in this category, to harder than what their bodies can actually cope with, they're burning themselves out, breaking themselves and not actually reaping the reward that they should be for the amount of effort that's going in to their training. How do you try to get them to back off a bit?

Lorraine: Yeah. Yeah. So, one of the key things that I teach is that we start right from the beginning, learning to pay attention to our bodies, and getting this rapport with ourselves and learning that you want to a cooperative relationship with your own body and it will give you the information that that it has, and which is better than if you're trying to perform to these external measures, which, there's so many of them because we can measure every frickin’ thing that we do, and post it some way of where other people can look at, and they couldn't care less, because they're too busy putting their’s up and wanting other people to pay attention to it.

So this constant pandering to make ourselves into somebody that we think that’s something on the outside that's going to approve of us. So people who overdo it have a lack of confidence, and a lack of trust in their own body and their own physiology. Because my goodness, your body does an incredible job to keep us alive, and to keep us going and to perform the tasks that we give to it so we can achieve the dreams that we have. Then that will bust itself, for you.

But we do have sort of certain sort of measures, then that will also put into place when you’re going to to kill yourself. But those that are well, I'm not doing this because yeah, our minds are incredible also. But most of them use our minds like a slave driver.

Lisa: Yes. I certainly did.

Lorraine: Yeah. You have to learn the hard way sometimes. But we have, being able to recognize, and to know where those danger signals are, and to be able to catch them and back off. Those, I started out my courses, were talking about the fallacy of hard work. Hard work is not where it said, everybody thinks, ‘Oh, God, you must be a really hard worker.’ Well, you know, I can knock a knuckle down, but you know, why put in more energy than the task requires? So hard is redundant. Just do the work. Don't make it hard. Because then now, as soon as you say hard, people start to stress, they tense up, you know, okay,

Lisa: It plops your brain and it becomes a negative, that you associate with, pain with your exercise and things and that it creates a negative loop.

Lorraine: It's horrible. When I won big races, it was actually you get in the state of flow, and it feels wonderful.

Lisa: Wow. So when you're actually at the top of your game, and winning these international events and things, you felt like—so it didn't feel as if you were killing yourself to get across the line on those days.

Lorraine: I always get pretty tired of the marathon.

Lisa: Yeah the in and out it. But you felt like you're prepared for this, but not overprepared for this, not burnt out and sorry about it. You actually enjoyed that, you enjoyed those top races that you really did well in? Did that feel like a flow state?

Lorraine: The system that I teach, it's a performance system, right? It's good, so that you get the best you possibly can on the day that counts. So that's getting yourself into a peak performance state from wherever you're at. Right? Everybody can do that. That feels amazing. I'm sure you felt it, that you just get there and everything's clicking right. You've got it.

So it is a coordination of body, heart, mind and spirit. It's just, they all come together and you reach that state of flow. Actually, for most of us, we don't get there because we are working too hard. We have too much tension. That getting into a peak state is actually an act of surrender. Yeah. So, when you hit it a few times, you go, ‘Man, this feels so good. I'm gonna try and figure out how I got there again’.

As I said, when I was young, I'd just go on the on the train harder than ever before, and you know, and then it seems to sort of go away from you and then you get injured or something or you don't perform as well, because you're in the syndrome of hard work, you're overcooking it, you've got excess energy. That energy has to go somewhere, and all it does is that just messes things up. So that precision of giving the stimulus that is needed for the effect. The thing is that the effect of it takes place during the recovery period, not when you’re actually doing the task. So, you know—

Lisa: That's an important point. If you had a bad night's sleep, you're being under the pump all week with work, you've got kids who have slept in, everything's going to cast it, and then you go and smash yourself, because it's on your list today to do a really long, hard run. You’re not going to get the adaptation, you'd have been better to go hang on, well, ‘Life, come at me this week, I'm gonna actually take it a little bit easier.’ Having that confidence to do that, and back off, because I think a lot of people are like, ‘Yeah, but I have to go harder’. They congratulate themselves when they slave drive themselves, and they push them through the bad event.

While that might make you mentally tougher, and there's some advantages of that approach for a while, it isn't going to get the adaptation that you're going to want, because actually, it's in the recovery, it's in the sleep, it's in the downtime that you're actually going to get that benefit. If you're not able to adapt, and then all that training was for nothing, or worse, it can be even detrimental to your immune system and to your health, your mental health. That's a hard sell, tough-minded athletes who think that they have to enter. I certainly struggled with us, and still do so on occasion, we, but I have to go harder, and I'm not, you know, doing enough, because I'm not getting the results, therefore, you know, a little is good, more must be better. That approach doesn't work.

Lorraine: Yeah, look, it's a lack of trust. I think a lot of us are brought up to sort of think in the negative all the time, and to talk about what we don't want to have happen. We approach a lot of the things that we wish to do, or the things we wish to create in our lives from a state of fear. That's a real shame, because that immediately puts us on the backfoot. Then we can't get into this natural flow. Look, the world has set up for us to be creative beings, and for us to have, be able to manifest our dreams and make works that are worthwhile and contribute it, so when we leave this life, we have lived something better, we have used our own talents and things are more enhanced, because of our being here.

I think most people have a very huge drive, I think all human beings do, to be of value in this life in some way. I think, you know, we started out talking about this, that we have these systems in our systems, they're not human, you know, they’re just systems that are put in place that eventually become self-serving, and they don't serve us.

So they will perpetuate fear, etc., because it just gets us putting our energy into the system, rather than putting it into ourselves and our own dreams. I think that what we need to realize is that it is set up in our favor. I'll give you just one really good example of that. When we train, and we give the body a training stimulus, so to meet that training task, that run or whatever we do, that workout, you have used this fuels in your body and you've broken apart all these bonds to provide energy to enable you to do the task, and then you stop doing it.

As soon as you stop doing it, the body gets busy. It starts to reconstitute those energy bonds and etc. So all these adaptations are taking place. That brings us back to normal again. But it doesn't just bring us back to normal. It gives us more, it makes us stronger, more storage space, you know, stronger muscle fibers, better oxygenation. It actually adapts itself to better accommodate what we're asking it to do. Yeah. So nature has given you a bonus. I mean, if you can't see that everything is set up in your favor just by that little thing alone, it’s like, ‘Wow.’

Lisa: Yeah, biology is just incredible. These are hormetic stressors. So when we put our body under strain, we come back stronger. When we put ourselves under too much strain, we actually break it down. So that's the fine line that we have to, for us, for each of us individually, find where those points are. That will shift as we get stronger, and you'll be able to take on more training.

But we have to honor the process, that honor the the hormetic stress, recovery, stress recovery, and then build on that so that we can then, you know, eventually you can be running at the best, if it's a training thing, but this is in every area of life, that we're more stressed, we're more resilient. Resilience, the word. We're more able to take on a load, this is just the beautiful thing of all these hormetic stressors and if we don't push ourselves at all, well then, we're going to definitely, the body is going to go well, this is a piece of cake, I can just keep being where I'm at, and then actually start to decline.

What I'd be really interested in your take with older people. One of my passions in life is to empower older people to not give up on on their lives because society sees your past that, and that you've got a use-by date, you've passed, you know, all of these sorts of attitudes that are just insidious in our culture that, in the Maori culture, it's a little bit better, where we actually respect their elders, and we value their wisdom, but in general culture, it's pretty bad.

We also have this thing—when I retire, then I'll recover and I’ll relax. For me, that's the beginning of a downward spiral. So in the rehabilitation journey that I've been on with my mum for the last five years, you know, I set her tasks every day that she has to achieve. She has goals that we're aiming for. Of course, we have phases of recovery, and so on. But she's always on a mission of some sort or another, and she's 79 years old, and we're going forward. I will treat her like that until there is no hope, you know, to the end of her days, because I believe that humans need challenge.

They don't need comfort. They don't need to be, you know, mollycoddled and stuck on the couch to watch telly all day, because you're older now. No. I'd like to see people having their challenge, whatever their challenge is, and it could be like, mum has offered art classes now and just loving the creative. She's got time to do something different and that's a goal that is helping her brain stay on point. What's your take on the way society sees people when they get older? How do you approach that from your personal standpoint?

Lorraine: Well, from my own personal standpoint, they’re getting older. Yeah, I'm with you 100%, Lisa. I think we need to continually be adding new stimuli, and you know, they can be stress, you know, stimuli stress, it's all just, you're asking the body to do new things. So then you’re just inviting new experience into your life. I think that as we get older, our world should be getting bigger, not smaller. I do think that a lot of what we attribute to old age, it’s just bad habit.

Lisa: It's accumulating it for many years and makes it the typical aging things. I mean, we are all going to die at some point, but my goal is to live an extremely long life that is healthy until the end, that's my goal. None of us know what's going to come at us from left field. I’ve experienced an awful lot, I know that some things can still, but that's the goal. That's the approach that I take. So I'm doing everything in my life and in my family's life, to make that as best as possible.

To have constant challenge and have constant goals that you're aiming for and new things that you're learning. It keeps you in this growth mindset for starters, and it keeps your body not knowing what's coming, so it's still having to adapt and go forward, rather than going backwards. As we get older, we get wiser, well, hopefully we do, most of us do, we've got more experience, we’re more able to cope with, you know, all the, the emotional things that we probably weren't able to cope with when we were 20, we've got all these experiences.

It's just fantastic if we can look to our older generations as the one who provide wisdom for the ones that are coming behind, and they're seen as a valuable resource in our society, because and not as being your past that because you're over 50, or you're over 60, or you're over 70, or whatever, you know, this demarcation line is that people have and they put on themselves, you know, partly because society does this.

Lorraine: Yeah and it's a horrible thing for you to be made redundant and society in terms of your value to it. That is largely, I think, exacerbated by what runs the show is generally money. So people are not seeing older people as being contributing into. Yet we need to start valuing other things besides that.

I think we are at the moment, just with the times and what it's for, the time of shifting, and there's an invitation here to make sure that we reconnect with our humanness, and start to prioritise what things we value as human beings, because we're in danger of losing a lot of them. We look at our older people, and we also look at our children. Now children have a life expectancy less than that of their parents.

Lisa: Yes, horrific.

Lorraine: It’s the wrong direction, and you can't cut off your old people and your young people are not benefiting from the wisdom that is available, and that wisdom is something that you can't put a price on. We need to get back to, away from this sort of outside focus and measuring everything in those sorts of terms, and start to value our human relationships and our depth of experience and our connection to the divine spark which we all have within us. To value that journey and support each other on that journey. We're all in it alone, and we're all in it together.

Lisa: That’s beautifully put. I think we are in an age of change, and I hope things will gather some more momentum. We've got lots of problems in the world but we've also got lots of opportunities now to change things. In the areas that I'm working in, I'm seeing huge changes taking place within just the last few years and that's encouraging. Then there is lots of negativity, but I like to focus on the positivity.

But I think, yeah, let's start valuing our elder, older population, and they have a lot to bring to the party. What we want to do is help people stay healthier, longer. That requires a bit of a mindset shift. When I take my mom to the gym, she's training her butt off there at 79 years old, and people know where she's come from, like being in a wheelchair for a few years, and not being able to do anything. Now she's doing all this, you know, crazy stuff, well, you know, compared to where she was there. That's a role model. She's a role model for so many older people who now have actually joined the gym, and, you know, we're doing stuff because they go, ‘Well, if Isabel can do it, I can do it.’

That's, to me, the greatest, beautiful thing that's come out of that tragic journey that we've been on. It's empowering now, other people to not give up just because they're older. To have that attitude of, ‘I'm going to fight my way back.’ Then it's a team event. I'm mum's coach, mentor and driver. She's the one who's willing to put in the hard yards and to do whatever I asked her to do to the best of her ability, and that's a winning combination. I'd like to see more people have that, if they've been on rehabilitation journeys. Even for younger people, that they've got someone in the corner that's willing to help them fight because when you're in a big health battle, you need people fighting with you and alongside you.

Lorraine: Yeah. When you're down and you don't have the energy, that's what families are for. That's what families are for. To help you when you need to help and how you can all be putting in and bringing it together. I just think this divorcing ourselves from old people and just giving them a bunch of pills, then putting them in front of the telly, what a waste, what an incredible waste of resources.

Lisa: Yep, and loneliness and despair, and all of those things, and the value of that person's life history is just disappearing, when it could be being impassioned, if they, if we can keep their minds active, and their bodies as strong as possible for as long as possible, they have a great value. It's not like, from a societal standpoint, it's often thought, well, once you retire, you're no longer adding value to society, it's measured in monetary value, and you're costing more in the health systems. Hopefully, you don't live too long. That’s just an approach to me that is just horrific. The way that society treats its young, and it's old and it’s vulnerable, as is the mark of a civilization, I think that is, you know, is that is what we should be measured by, not how strong—

Lorraine: Yeah, and I think the example of your mum, is that, all we have to do is take care of what's in front of us and do the best that we can. That is being an example to other people, it just starts to, so she's going to the gym and other people see her and they go out, and they have a whole different mindset about the possibilities and what happens and, and that's all it takes.

Lisa: You like the work that you're doing, that's imparting your knowledge. You could be sitting back on a beach somewhere and just enjoying life. Instead, you're still teaching, you're sharing, you're imparting that valuable knowledge that you have to other people, and that is gold. It's so important. Gary, your lovely brother, who I absolutely adore and admire, thinks he's crazy and awesome at the same time.

Still world-leading mountain biker at his age, and he certainly helped me on my journey when I was broken and burnt out and came to him, a few years ago going, ‘But Gary, I’m broken, can you help me?’ He put pieces of the puzzle back together again, and helped, gave me actually a role model, because he'd done the same thing, burnt himself out and blown himself apart. He had found a way back. So that was a role model for me. There is a way back when you have smashed the crap out of your body and you didn't listen to it. The work that he's doing is, I think, fantastic.

Lorraine: Yeah, well, it's the same. It doesn't matter what age you are, your cells are still regenerating themselves. You can still direct that process to make a better you than you were before.

Lisa: Day by day.

Lorraine: We do things in increments. It's just giving it just that bit of what you want, and the direction that you wish to go and go.

Lisa: You don't need to be perfect, you can just be inching your way forward with one bite at a time and one exercise session at a time, and one good sleep at a time, all of these things add up. I think we've totally aligned. Lorraine, this has been a really interesting, amazing conversation. I think we need to have a couple more privately, because I think there's a lot more that we need to discuss and maybe do some things together.

But I really just want to thank you for your time today. It's been really an insight. You are a legend in the sport and what you've achieved is just nothing short of amazing. I remember, as a kid, watching you and a lot of your fellow people in that age group who just did amazing things, and it was awesome to have, like, Rod on last week, on the show as well. Those are role models for me. I can never win in the Olympics or anything like that, but I did things in my own way. You pioneered a path, especially for a woman to be able to do long-distance running, and that's just gold.

Lorraine: Well, thank you very much, Lisa. It's been an exciting journey and I feel so privileged to have been born in this time and this body and to have had the experiences that I've had, and it's not over yet.

Lisa: Hell no! [1:10:10-1:10:12 unintelligible, garbled audio], and you're obviously still doing that. Lorraine, where can people find you if they want to, you know, learn about what you're doing, read your book, On The Wings of Mercury, where can they reach out to you?

Lorraine: Yeah, they can reach me at lorraine@lydiardfoundation.org. So you got to get your eyes in there, like Lydiard, with R-D. Yeah, just write to me. They can go to our website, lydiardfoundation.org, to see the programs that we've got. We have quite a few New Zealand coaches. They've been through the course and they're very popular and we've got a lot of wonderful things, expanding it all the time.

Lisa: Awesome. Maybe we collaborate and go and do them. Do one of those as well. always adding courses to my list of things that I have to do. That might be a good one of them that I have to add.

Lorraine: You'd be most welcome, Lisa, we'd love to have you.

Lisa: Thanks. Alright.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at www.lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Imagine yourself standing smack in the middle of a busy city. You’d get dizzy just by looking at how fast people go about their daily lives. Everyone is so hyperactive and absorbed in getting things done. Amid all the chaos, we forget to take a pause, be still and breathe.

Remember, we can only evolve into our best selves if we take a moment and be present. And no one knows this more than the ultimate warrior, Mark Divine. He joins us in this episode to share his experiences in the military and how meditation helped him develop inner strength. Mark also teaches us how to use positive internal dialogue in visualising and attracting victory.

If you want to know more about the benefits of meditation through the experience of an ultimate warrior, then this episode is for you.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out Mark’s experience with meditation and how this made him into an ultimate warrior. 2. Discover how a positive internal dialogue can train your brain to be focused. 3. Know about recapitulation and how it can help in dealing with traumas.

Episode Highlights [05:34] Mark’s Background * Mark’s experiences with his father forged his mental toughness and resilience. This laid the foundation for him to be an ultimate warrior. * He grew up boating, hiking, and running trails through the mountains. Athletics was his escape, but he wasn’t able to think about his future. * When Mark left college, he was fortunate enough to get a job in a big accounting firm; this allowed him to go to a top business school. * Despite school and work, Mark was determined to continue his athletic career. He then became interested in Seido karate. * Meditation made him realise that he wasn’t following his true path.

[15:13] Becoming an Ultimate Warrior * Mark came across a Navy recruitment centre, saw their poster, and applied to be a SEAL. * Mark graduated with his entire boat crew. He was number 1 in his class. * Mark credits this achievement to meditation training and the team building activities that compelled you to tame your ego.

[19:59] The Importance of Meditation and Yoga * Mark meditated and trained in yoga every day in the war zone. He felt stronger and more confident. * Yoga is the oldest science of mental and personal development. * Mark learned that training one’s physical, mental, emotional, intuitional, and spiritual aspects mean you can access more of yourself and your potential. * Yoga, in a sense, is integration; it is coming back to who we are and being whole. * Listen to the full episode to learn how Mark got into yoga and how this contributed to him becoming an ultimate warrior.

[26:33] The Importance of Emotional Strength * In SEAL training, most of those who quit were physically strong but lacked the emotional strength to handle extreme moments of crisis and doubt. * The person subconsciously created the injury to quit. * Mark tried to be flexible and didn’t let anything bother him during SEAL training. * Mark trains SEALs by teaching the Big Four: box breathing, positive internal dialogue, visualisation, and micro-goals.

[35:19] Examining Your Internal Dialogue * Meditation is a critical part of examining one’s internal dialogue. * How you talk to yourself has an incredible impact on your energy and motivation. * The term 'feeding the fear wolf' means to allow negative dialogue, imagery, and emotions to control and weaken you. * Positive thoughts, or ‘feeding the courage wolf’, creates a higher vibration, bringing in more energy and access to creativity. * Controlling your breathing and adding a positive mantra can be very transformative; it helps you develop concentration and increase productivity.

[41:33] Imagining Victory * Our belief systems are made out of statements that may or may not be true. * Pay attention to your thoughts and make them positive. Know that you are competent. * Although you may not feel it yet, continue meditating to get rid of that negative side. * When you understand your capabilities, you can project them into the future and have an image of your success. * When positive thoughts overcome negative ones, you can see your true self more clearly, and powerful thoughts start to spread.

[46:10] The Zen Process * Meditation is challenging, especially for active people. We have to disconnect from various distractions and be still. * You can’t evolve if you are constantly active; the only way to go inward is to slow down and be quiet. * The first step in meditation practice is box breathing. It releases stress and brings brain-body balance. * In the second step, the box pattern turns into concentration practice. The mantra is also added to train concentration and attention. * The third step allows you to put less energy into concentration and observe yourself from a witness perspective.

[53:00] The Importance of Doing Emotional Work * Doing emotional work is the foundation of meditation. * Without this, you don’t get the full benefits of meditation. * Meditation requires patience. * The process is different for everyone.

[55:44] Going into the Witness Perspective * In this part of the process, you empty your mind and allow any thought streams to come in. You experience a metacognitive split here. * You see the thoughts that come up from a perspective that’s separate from them. * Through this, you realise you’re not your thoughts and emotions. And so, you have the power to change your story. * When you visualise from the witness perspective, you see what your spirit wants you to see. You realise your true purpose. * If you do this every day, you attract the future that’s right for you, and you feel connected to the world. Through this, you eventually gain enlightenment.

[01:02:43] How Meditation Can Help Athletes * Meditation supports total health. * Through it, you’ll become more healthy, strong, and motivated. * Awakened athletes and warriors who serve the world can change it. * Athletes can do so because they are emotionally balanced.

[01:05:25] What Is Recapitulation? * Recapitulation is where we use imagery to go back into our past, relive traumatic events, recontextualise them, and forgive. * It is to see yourself forgiving your younger self and changing the image and energy associated with your traumas. * Awareness and identification of traumatic events is the first step to the recapitulation. * Recapitulation can be used to go back and overcome big traumas and to make sure you are not dragging past regrets. * Recapitulation then becomes a daily practice of letting go of regrets and resentments. Listen to the full episode and hear some examples of this!

[01:18:28] How to Be a Good Leader * Show up as the best version of yourself. Be humble, authentic, trustworthy, courageous, and respectful. * It takes time to develop those qualities and work on them with your team. * Listen to the full episode to know how Mark does leadership training in his programs!

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Listen to other Pushing the Limits episodes: * + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #199: Episode with Dr Don Wood * Connect with Mark: Website | Instagram * The Unbeatable Mind Podcast with Mark Divine * + Bedros Keulian on Learning How to “Man Up” + How to Deal with Trauma with Dr Don Wood * Check out these books by Mark Divine!

  • Staring Down the Wolf
  • Unbeatable Mind

  • 8 Weeks to SEALFIT

  • The Way of the SEAL
  • KOKORO Yoga
  • Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda
  • 2021 Unbeatable Challenge

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘It was about physical, it was about mental, it was about emotional, it was about intuitional and spiritual aspects of our being. In that, I learned that if you train those together, then you will integrate, you'll become whole again.’

‘Human beings have not learned to be whole, and they don't recognise that we're all interconnected. And every one of our thoughts, every one of our emotions, every one of our actions has an implication or impact on the whole.’

‘How you talk to yourself has an incredible impact on your energy and your motivation. Literally, we use the terminology “feeding the courage wolf” versus “feeding the fear wolf.’

‘Understanding your capability as a human being, the potential that you have, the power that we have, you can then project that into the future and say, “What does victory look like for me?”’

‘I think that there's two reasons we're on this planet. One is to evolve to become the best version, highest and best version of yourself in this lifetime. The second is to align with our calling or our purpose.’

‘Ultimately, we create our own reality. It's all basically, it's all experienced with [the] mind. So that's powerful.’

‘You can do anything, one at a time.’

About Mark Mark Divine grew up in Upstate New York. He has a degree in economics from Colgate University and an MBA from NYU. He is a New York Times best-selling author, leadership expert, entrepreneur, motivational speaker.

Mark is also a retired U.S. Navy SEAL Commander. He spent nine years on active duty and 11 as a Reserve. With 20 years in service, he served in over 45 countries. During his time in the military, Mark created a nationwide mentoring program for SEAL trainees. Because of his success, he decided to start SEALFIT. This fitness company aims to prepare civilians for the physical and emotional demands of a SEAL-like lifestyle.

Mark knows the value of emotional strength in transforming lives. With this in mind, he published Unbeatable Mind in 2011, which includes an at-home study program.

Mark also has several other entrepreneurial endeavours and books in his name. He’s also the host of the Unbeatable Mind podcast. With all these ventures, Mark’s ultimate aim is to create more resources to improve the lives of everyone he meets.

If you want to know more about Mark and his work, check out his website and Instagram.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be motivated to be their real selves through meditation.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hey everyone, Lisa Tamati here. Fantastic to have you back at Pushing the Limits this week. Now I have a wonderful man who I’ve followed for a number of years. He’s one of my heroes, I was a little bit of a fangirl in this interview I have to admit. But it was pretty crazy. I have Commander Mark Divine on the show. Mark is an ex-Navy SEAL. He was a Commander in the Navy Seal. He was there for 20 years, and he was a fantastic leader. He was deployed in over 45 countries around the world. He also trains, trains a lot of the SEALs who are going into BUD/S training. He was number one on his course when he went through BUD/S, and that’s saying something. That’s nine months of hell on earth, so if you get through that, you’ve got to be pretty cool, and to be number one in the end of the whole 190 that went on, that’s pretty amazing.

He’s the author of a number of books: Staring Down the Wolf, Unbeatable Mind, and SEALFIT, and runs a number of multi-million dollar companies. As a leadership consultant, he trains, not only does he train the military, he helps people prepare for SEAL training. He also now runs through his innovative SEALFIT and Unbeatable Mind training systems. Kokoro crucible is one of his programs. He shares the same secrets with entrepreneurs, executives, and teams through his book and through his book, and through his speaking, and through his award-winning podcast. He has his own, and I have the privilege of being on that one shortly. He runs world-renowned leadership and team events. Wonderful man to talk to, someone that I really, really look up to and respect. His discipline that he brings to everything that he does is quite amazing. So I hope you enjoy the show.

Before we go, I just want to remind you to check out our epigenetics program, if you haven’t already. Head over to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button, and find out about our Peak Epigenetics program. This is all about understanding your genetics, and how to optimise them for your best performance. So everything from food, to exercise, what types of exercise to do, what times of the day you should be training, what times of the day you should be eating, and how often. What type of diet is right for you, right down to the nitty gritty. You know, eat almonds, don't eat cashew nuts, right specific to your genetics, so to speak. It also looks at your whole mood and behavior, what makes you tick, why do you think the way you do, what areas you may have problems with, your predispositions.

That's not to be all deterministic, and negative, that's all to be like this is what you're dealing with, and this is how we can hit things off at the pass. This is a really life-changing program, and we're really proud to bring it to you. We've been doing it for a number of years now. We've taken hundreds of people through this program, and we work with corporate teams. So if you're out there and you have a corporate team that might be interested in doing either this or our boost camp program, which is all about upgrading and learning all about how to manage stress, how to reduce the effects of stress, and be more resilient and bring a higher performance to your game, then please reach out to us. Go over to lisatamati.com. and check out all the programs that we have here.

Just a reminder too, I have a new book out called Relentless: How a Mother and Daughter Defied the Odds. If you've listened to this podcast for a while, you would hear me harp on about my amazing mum and the journey that we've been on back from a massive aneurysm that left her at the age of 74 with hardly any higher function, and a prognosis that said she would never ever do anything again. And they were very, very wrong. So I want to share this book, I want to share the story, because it's a very empowering story. So if you haven't read the book Relentless, I really encourage you to go and do that. I'm really keen to get this out there because this will empower and change lives, and already has, so make sure you read Relentless. Right, over to the show with Commander Mark Divine.

Hi everyone, Lisa Tamati here. I’m super, super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin, I can't sit still. I have one of my great heroes that I've followed for such a long time, so I'm a little bit, being a bit of a fangirl right now. But I'm sure I'll calm down in a minute or two. Commander Mark Divine is with us. He has such a huge history. You are known, really, as the warrior man, Unbeatable Mind, SEALFIT. You've done a heck of a lot in your life. Mark, it's just, I can't wait to share some of your insights, because what you do and what you've done is just absolutely amazing. So, welcome to Pushing the Limits. Can you give us a little bit of background, Mark, on where you come from and what you've done and how you've, just to give us a little bit of, because you, obviously you've been in the SEALs, you're a commander in the SEALs, you're a trained SEAL. So let's start there. Let you come to it.

Mark Divine: Oh, my God, where to start?

Lisa: Maybe childhood.

Mark: I was born at a very young age in a very small town in upstate New York, a province of the United States. I'll try to keep this short because sometimes I have a few run-on sentences. Go like 40 minutes, right? We don't want that to happen. That’s when we have a good time. So yeah, I was a pretty normal kid growing up, running around the woods of upstate New York, crazy family, lots of alcohol and anger. The belt would come out pretty much every other night. My brother and I would literally just provoke my father just to do it, because we stopped taking him seriously after a while. In that regard, I feel pretty fortunate that my young spirit was like, ‘You can't break me’. I realise now that we all choose our parents, let's just say, from a spiritual perspective, I certainly believe that. For certain experiences, and for a while I played the victim, woe is me.

But now I look back and thank God, that really forged my mental toughness and resiliency. I had to unpack some crap from that, obviously, but it made me a Navy SEAL warrior, right? When I went through Navy SEAL training, you could not hurt me, because nothing was compared to my dad. Anyway, so that's a little aside. Upstate New York had a really— it's beautiful. I've been to your country in New Zealand. It's just absolutely gorgeous. I feel the same way about America in certain places, the much bigger. New York is one of those areas that, 6 million acres of unfettered, protected land in northern New York called the Adirondack Mountains, and that was my playground. And our summer home was on the west shore of a lake called Lake Placid where the Olympics were, you're probably familiar with that.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: There was no road access to my house. There was no TV, no internet. Still, there's finally internet after but no TV, and we would have to take a boat to get there. And so I grew up with boats and I grew up hiking in the Adirondacks and a lot of time alone in the wilderness, which is one of the reasons I became kind of an endurance athlete. I know you're an endurance lady. Because I was comfortable, being alone. I was comfortable running the trails in the mountains, and I used to have a friend, we would run up Whiteface Mountain, which is at the base or the foot of Lake Placid. Not a huge mountain, it’s 4,000 feet, but you know it took a couple hours. If you're going to hike up there it takes a few hours. For us to run up there, took us 45 minutes. People used to think we were crazy. When we got to the top we would wrap our ankles and our knees and we would play tag on the way down. The trails are steep and just rocks and ruts and roots. It's amazing we didn't kill ourselves.

So that was my like early childhood upbringing, nature being in the woods and in the water were my solace away from the family dynamics. That led me to be a competitive athlete in high school, 12 varsity letters and then into college, I was recruited for swimming and I became a competitive rower. And then I started triathlon. So, I was an athlete, but the athletics really was my escape and kind of my grounding rod, like it is for so many athletes, right? When I— then I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I didn't really spend a lot of time in my youth thinking about my future, I kind of accepted a lot of the stories for my family that I was going to go back and be part of the family business. That business was really the place that Divines go, you know, we don't go into the military, we don't go into academia, we don't do those things. So anyways, it's as your listeners are hearing this, they're probably like, ‘Yep, check.’

Lisa: They may have done that.

Mark: That's the norm, right? That's not, I wasn't off, but it's certainly not what I teach today, right? Because, right, I think if we're— if we don't follow our passion and find our calling in life, then we're going to have discomfort later on, and discomfort is going to lead to existential crisis. So I was very fortunate, incredibly fortunate that when I left college, I got a job with a big accounting firm, consulting accounting firm called Coopers and Lybrand, which became accountant, became—

Lisa: You were an accountant. I mean, that makes me laugh, really.

Mark: I was an accountant.

Lisa: I was on the way to being an accountant too. So because of what my dad wanted, and I'm about as far from an accountant, as you can get, you know.

Mark: I was too.

Lisa: That’s a good story.

Mark: But I stuck with it long enough to become a certified public accountant, I had to pass the exam.

Lisa: I didn't.

Mark: I got my— I tell you what, I would rather go back to BUD/S Navy SEAL training than try that darn exam again. That told me something right there. But you know, it is a great opportunity. Because here I am, you know, I got a degree from a pretty good university called Colgate. But I didn't really have any skills. And so this job opportunity gave me and sent me to a top business school in the United States called NYU, New York University. So I got my MBA in finance, and I became a certified public accountant for four years. I got to work on a lot of different companies as a consultant and auditor. So I saw a lot. But, so that was kind of formative, in a sense, like, I learned a lot. What was probably more formative, or more substantial for me was, once I got into that suit and tie, and I was working eight hours a day, mind you, they allowed me to work only 8 or 10 hours a day. Most people in those scenarios work 15 to 20. But because they were sponsoring this small group of us to go to business school at night, they had to let us off, and then we would go to school full-time during the summer, and just come in on Fridays.

It was a really cool program. So I was working 8 to 10 hours a day, going to school at night. And it's— I was an athlete, right? And I was like, ‘How am I going to, how am I going to stay as an athlete?’ Right? Most people don't. Because you know, in the corporate world, and I was like, ‘I've got to, I've got to continue my athletic career.’ And so I would get up really early in the morning and go for a six mile run. And then at lunchtime when all my peers would go have a beer or martini and lunch, I would go to the gym and do like this, what I now know is a high intensity functional workout, which back then nobody talked about. Because I had to go fast, and I was wanting to do a lot of different variety, and I had to be in and out of there in 45 minutes. And then after, they let me go at five o'clock in the afternoon, and my first class wasn't till 7:30. So I'm looking at that saying, ‘Look, I got two and a half hours. I could do some training here.’ So one night, I wasn't sure what I was going to do. But one night, I was walking down 23rd Street, I was living on 22nd in Manhattan, and I heard these screams coming out of this building. And I stopped and I looked up and I was standing under the flag of the World Seido Karate Headquarters.

‘Oh, interesting. Maybe it's a martial art.’ And I had been intrigued with the martial arts. But in Upstate New York, that just wasn't much. There's nothing as a matter of fact, in my time, and so I didn't really get a chance to study anything. So I went in there and I was floored. I was stunned by what I saw. It was an incredible art. This was the headquarters of a worldwide art called seido, they had three or 400,000 students. And the Grand Master, the founder was on the center of the floor, this Japanese man, 10th degree black belt, looked like a frickin’ tank. And he was, his name was Nakamura, and he became my mentor, my first real mentor. Yeah. Now what's interesting, he says it wasn't really the karate that changed me. It was the zen training. And he is one of the few masters who kept the old ways of training the mind and the body and the spirit, and understood that they all had to be in balance, and they all were part of the package of developing these corrupted, these trainees.

I loved the zen part, and there was a zen class we had every Thursday night for an hour, we would sit on that little wooden zazen bench. And honestly, this studio is the headquarter, had well over a thousand students. There were ten of us in this class, most of them black belts, and I was a white belt, and I was like, ‘Where is everyone else?’ I didn’t get it. And then there wasn't a lot of understanding or talk about meditation back then. But boy, I did this thing to do meditation. I had all the usual kind of resistance to it, and my monkey mind going all over the place and wondering if it really worked. I trusted Nakamura and the way he acted and presented himself as a character, just who he was, was so different than any other human I've ever seen or experienced. And I was like, ‘There's got to be something to this, right?’ So I stuck with it. And it literally changed almost every aspect of who I was and how I saw the world and what I perceived to be my calling and my purpose in life. And it was sitting on that bench that I realised that I was going down the wrong path with this MBA, CPA, working in the corporate world. Even if I went back to the family business, it just wasn't what I was meant to do. That was the first time in my life that I allowed myself to examine my core story that said, this is who I am, and to recognise it was built on a lie.

Lisa: Yeah. And you weren't following your true path.

Mark: I wasn't following my true path. But my true path wasn't exactly laid out for me, in those meditation sessions. It was more like the archetypal energy in the arc of my life was shown to me and that that art was to be a warrior, and then it would lead somewhere else that wasn't quite clear to me, but the warrior part was very strong. And it didn't— I didn't get messages while I was meditating, saying, ‘You're going to be a Navy SEAL.’ What I got was ‘warrior’ and, ‘You're going down the wrong path with this business stuff.’ It was when I finally started to accept that, that I learned about the Navy SEALs, right. Remember, this is 1987, 88, there was no TV shows and movies, no famous names.

Lisa: They weren't famous back then.

Mark: Nobody knew them. In fact, the few people that did know them were like, crazy guys. So I— one day, I was walking home from work, and I came across a Navy recruiting station. I didn't even know it was that but I saw a poster in the window. I took a double take of this poster. I was like, well, the title of that poster was, ‘Be Someone Special’. And it had Navy SEALs doing really cool shit. Jumping out of airplanes, yeah, blocking out little mini submarines, sneaking through the water. It's just so cool for me. I just sat there kind of transfixed, looking at that, and I didn't say anything about the SEALs. They said, US Navy, and I was, ‘Huh, interesting.’ So I went back and I talked to the recruiters so what, ‘Who are those people in that poster?’ They said, ‘Oh, they're crazy Navy SEALs. You don't want to do that.’ I said, ‘Yeah, I do. Tell me more.’ So long story short. I started that whole CPA, MBA bullshit, 1985. In November of 1989, I got my black belt, I got my MBA, I got my CPA and I was on a bus. I was on a bus to Officer Candidate School.

Lisa: That was the next mission.

Mark: On to the next mission. I wandered away from, I walked away from probably what would today's dollars be $200,000 salary to get paid $500 a month?

Lisa: Wow. That takes—

Mark: For heading off as a candidate.

Lisa: That takes courage. That alone takes courage.

Mark: But I didn't question that. You know, I knew it. I knew this is the right path. And when I got to SEAL training, what we called BUD/S, basic underwater demolition SEAL training. Man, I felt like I was home, and there was no way that they were going to get me to quit. I mean, other people said this, but I said this very clearly: ‘You have to kill me to get me out of here.’ And I don't think they can legally do that. Although they sure do try.

Lisa: It can get pretty close.

Mark: It can get pretty close, yeah. I sailed through SEAL training. We had 185 in my class, hardcore, awesome guys. And 19 of us graduated. I graduated number one in my class and my entire team, my boat crew that we trained together from day one, graduated with me.

Lisa: Wow.

Mark: So there's something about that meditation training, Nakamura and the skills, and the values on team building and taking my eyes off myself and putting them on others, the taming of the ego, it really allowed me to help lead my team to success, right? We made it about the team and not about me, and everyone else was about them. And they— the team's, the instructors are, their job is to select the next crop of teammates that they will go to war with.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: So what they're looking for is not who's the toughest guy, not who's the best athlete—

Lisa: Not the coolest, yeah.

Mark: Yeah, exactly, not the best looking whatever. It's, ‘Are you a great teammate? Are you gonna have my back?’ So that's something that I guess I demonstrated.

Lisa: Wow, that's a brilliant intro into your background. What fascinates me with you too is that you like— you know, because the SEALs are known for being hard asses. I mean, you know they are hard people, they have been through tough stuff, they go through tough stuff every single day that you're out there. But you've got this meditation side, you do a heck of a lot of yoga. You do, you talk about authenticity, and I know you don't like the word vulnerability, but you're quite, you're open about the stuff. That's quite the opposite of most, in the training that you get. I suppose this comes from Nakamura being your master, that he taught you that very early on, they're sort of the both sides of the coin.

I get that question quite a lot, too. When they— when people read what I've done and achieved and so on, they're like, ‘Wow, you must be a super hard ass.’ And then they meet you and realise that you're actually very vulnerable or cry a lot. I'm very full of mistakes and problems and stuff that I'm working on at all times. But the difference is, I think, that you embrace both sides. And that you are always in pursuit of excellence, and you're always improving, and you're always developing. And I found that a really interesting combination in someone who's so physically tough and mentally tough to have had both sides. Was that a hard thing in the beginning with the SEALs?

Mark: I think you're right. I did learn that initially from Nakamura and so every day, you know, I was so committed. Every day I would stretch and I would do my breathing practices and my visualisation while I was going through SEAL training. Every day in the SEALs, I do some version of that. It was you know, it's difficult for a military operator to keep a daily dedicated practice going if you're up 24 hours a day, and you're in combat. Honestly, when I went to Iraq and combat, I meditated and trained yoga every single day. And it had a profound effect on me, right? In the war zone, all my teammates are just getting frayed at the edges, and I felt strong and confident, and I knew I was going to survive, because I did, I had that vision. I was going to be home with my child, you know, my wife and son.

So it came first from Nakamura, and then I started into yoga. It's not my career, it's important people know, I did plus-20 years in the Navy SEAL, but about nine years active duty and 11 years reserve. So as reserve, so nine years after I joined, even while I was on active duty, I started to get into yoga. But when I got off active duty I had more time. I went full on in, and that was because— actually it is a blessing in disguise. I was living in San Diego and there was no seido karate out here. Otherwise I would have gotten back into seido karate. So first I got into something called goju karate, I got a black belt there. It was very similar to seido but it lacked the spirit and like the mental, the meditation, so I didn't really stick with that. And then I got into ninjutsu, thinking ninjutsu might be a little bit more spiritual. I really liked the teacher but he was a horrible business guy, so right on the cusp of getting my black belt, he shut his school down and ran out of money.

And then I found yoga kind of about the same time as ninjitsu. But I didn't really understand it until I read Patanjali’s yoga sutras and also Paramahansa Yogananda’s autobiography yoga. And those just absolutely shattered my paradigm of what was possible and what yoga was, as the oldest science of mental and personal development. So I fully went into yoga and I ended up getting 700 hours of certifications and started my own yoga program and wrote a book about it eventually, but, and started teaching it to SEALs. And so all this I was still a SEAL officer. Because I didn't retire from the SEALs in 2011, but I was able to do all this and build a business that started to teach Navy SEALs everything I would have been learning. And that's called SEALFIT. That was the business that everything I've been learning and applying in my own life, right? And this was this integrated model of development. It started with Nakamura where it wasn't just about the physical. It was about physical, it was about mental, it was about emotional, it was about intuitional and spiritual aspects of our being. In that, I learned that if you train those together, then you will integrate, you'll become whole again. What that means is you'll become more, you have access to more of yourself. You have to put more potential. You can maintain peak performance, you can serve more profoundly, you can do more, you've got way more energy, way more enthusiasm, way more motivation, way more peace of mind, way more clarity.

It's extraordinary. In a sense, it's like coming back to who we are. That's why I call it integration. In fact, the word ‘yoga’ means union or integration, and so does is zen, believe it or not. Those practices and traditions are really all about becoming whole as a human again, as opposed to fragments and separate, separate from yourself and separated from others. So I stumbled upon this, and created my own path or my own model. And then when I had started to teach it to SEALs and special operators, and other military operators, a ton of people, even from New Zealand, some of your listeners might have been to my training. Then I started to recognise that, ‘Wow, this is necessary in our culture.’ Because most Westerners have no connection to this, this way of living of, taking care of the internal while you are working in the external, the yin and the yang, the balance between being and doing, becoming whole again, so you can do your work from a whole perspective as opposed to a fragmented, separated self. Which leads to suboptimal results, at a minimum, in at least a flat out crisis or destruction at the maximum level. And that's, we're seeing that both in from the investment in violence, military build-up, conflict, as well as environmental degradation is because human beings have not learned to be whole, and they don't recognise that we're all interconnected. And every one of our thoughts, every one of our emotions, every one of our actions has an implication or impact on the whole.

Lisa: Yep. This is really good. Because I think, we live our lives very much in the doing. We're busy all day, we're busy with a billion million things, we're running businesses, we're— we’ve got families and so on. And it's really hard to find that stillness. And I know that even as an athlete who, I think for years, I was just headed through the wall, you know, taking—

Mark: Most people are, that’s how they learn, until they hit the wall, right?

Lisa: Yeah, no, I hit the wall a couple of dozen times before, because I was a bit thick. I didn't wake up, said, ‘Hang on, this stuff isn't working anymore.’ And it works when you're 20. And it works when you're 25. And it works when you're 30. And but when you start hitting your 40s, and you're still smashing the crap out of your body, and you're not really not refilling the tank, and you're not re-examining what the hell are you doing, I think that's when the wheel started, when the wheel started to fall off for me. And I'm like, ‘Hang on a minute, this— why isn't my body doing like, it wasn't what it was supposed to do?’ And when you've grown up, though, with that expectation of, you have to be tough, you have to be hard. And I grew up different to you. But I had a dad who was very, he was an awesome father, but he was a hard ass. And he expected you to be tough and mentally tough, physically tough. He didn't really tolerate a lot of weakness or sickness or anything like that. And he was an amazing dad, but he pushed really hard. And that sort of makes you think, well, you have to be hard all the time. And then when you break down, then it's you being weak. Instead of looking at the whole picture, and quieting the mind and doing these things like meditation was for me. Yeah, I know, I hear it's really important, but I can't sit still. I need it twice as much.

Mark: Yeah, well, there's a reason for that. It'd be fun to talk about. But think about, when I reflect back, and my SEAL training and all these other guys were trying to be hard, and they had the same thinking, because America has a real soft side to it. But there's a lot of freakin’ warriors in America. And we have that same kind of what your dad's talking about. Gotta be hard. Like, there's no room for weakness. It's got to be tough. You think about the metaphor, the guys who quit were just bad asses. Yeah, why did they quit? They quit because they didn't— they lacked the emotional strength to understand what was happening to them in their either most extreme moments of crisis or moments of just doubt, right? And then they're like, so they let uncertainty in, let doubt creep in and corrupt their decision making and then, one mistake leads to an injury we call, quinjury. And you've probably seen this in endurance athletes’ is when all of a sudden the injury kind of crops up and then the person's out. And then really, reality is they created that injury to quit.

Lisa: Yeah, because they wanted a way out.

Mark: Because they wanted a way out. It's very subconscious. It's not prepared. It's not preparing properly. It's not recovering properly. It's not understanding that this is a long game and getting your ego out of the way.

Lisa: It used to prop up for me every— before any big race, that in the week ahead of that race, I would get sick. And I would, I'm sure that that was my subconscious trying to stop me do it.

Mark: Yeah, I've given you an out, right. And so—

Lisa: You’ve got a cold, you've got the flu.

Mark: Think about the metaphor between, if you got a tsunami coming, like, consider tsunami a metaphor for a crisis, or a big challenge, like BUD/S or a 50 mile or 100 mile race or something like that. There's a tsunami coming. Would you rather be a mighty oak facing that tsunami, or would you rather be like a reed?

Lisa: A reed, definitely.

Mark: Yeah, if so, when I went to SEAL training, I tried to be the reed, right? I tried to be really flexible. I didn't let anything bother me. You know, structures would come up and, during Hell Week for us, which week seven back then. But now it's more like week three or four, seven days non-stop training around the clock, no sleep. Everyone's heard about that. Like a day, Thursday, like the day before, we're over it most of it, we’re down to 60, 35, maybe 45 or 50, actually, in our class from 185 already. And instructor evil comes over and he's like, ‘Mark, I don't like you, I'm gonna make you quit.’ And in my mind, I was like, ‘Good luck.’ And I even think I started—

Lisa: That confidence!

Mark: I don't know, it was just my spiritual strength saying, ‘No, you're not going to get me to quit, you can't.’ And so I actually was challenging him in my mind, and it must come through on my face. And he goes, ‘I'm gonna wipe that smirk right out that effing face.’ And he just made me start doing 8-count bodybuilders, which are like a burpee, basically. And I remember in my mind thinking, ‘Okay, all right. Let's do this.’ Right? All I got to do is one 8-count bodybuilder at a time, until he gets tired.

Lisa: Until he gets tired.

Mark: Exactly! So that's what I did. I just did one. I just want, did one 8-count bodybuilder. And then I just did one 8-count bodybuilder. And then I just did one 8-count bodybuilder. And when we got up to like—

Lisa: You broke him.

Mark: 800.

Lisa: Holy heck.

Mark: Which is nothing, right? I did 24 hours of burpees last, a couple of years ago, as part of our challenge. We did, check this out: we did 22 million burpees as a tribe to raise money for veterans. And part of that was to break a world record where our six-person team, you would love this, three men and three women, we did 36,000 burpees in 24 hours, so I did 7,500 or something like that. So 700 is nothing. Back then I didn't know if it was going to be 700 or 7,000 or 70,000. But he got bored, and he walked away at about 700, and I have to say, that worked. That's a good strategy.

Lisa: What about the burning in the muscles and the exhaustion and the running out of glycogen—

Mark: You can do anything, one at a time.

Lisa: Wow.

Mark: It's just like in a race, I'm sure you get to a point where all you have to do all you are saying to yourself is, ‘Just one more step.’

Lisa: One more step. Yep, absolutely.

Mark: Same thing. We call them micro goals. And so we teach— I started teaching these to SEALs, and the best guys already did this. But now we teach it, the SEALs are teaching what I call the Big Four. And they're teaching box breathing for controlling their stress, they're teaching positive internal dialogue, and mantras. And they're teaching visualisation, visualise every event and visualise what the end state looks like for you and then visualise the mission and whatnot. And then micro goals. Like go to BUD/S thinking about eight months of training, you go to BUD/S thinking about, ‘What do I got to do today to win this?’ And then when today gets hard, you just collapse. ‘What do I need to do to win this evolution or event that I'm in?’ And then when that gets harder, you know, it's like, ‘What do I got to do to get to the next five minutes?’ Anytime you quit, or you have the thought, ‘Well, this sucks. I think I want to quit.’ You just say, ‘Well, let me just push through to another— let me just push through another five minutes.’ Or, ‘Let me just get to that berm up there,’ if it's a run, or Log-Pt could go on forever. ‘Let me just finish this evolution, then I'll make a decision.’ And so you just keep kicking the can down the road of the pain and the quit decision and the suffering and eventually the suffering goes away, because that's a temporary state.

Lisa: And this is like that you just dropped so much golden inside of two minutes. Take a couple of those because these are things that I've took me 20 years to learn.

Mark: Play it back in slow motion.

Lisa: You know, like this. That's how that's how I break down. You know, every mess of the like, I remember and my listeners have heard me tell the story. But I ran 2,250 kilometers from New Zealand for charity.

Mark: Wow. Good for you. Holy cow.

Lisa: Yeah, no, it's like, but I've been so busy in the build-up doing— I've been at other races around the world, done Badwater in the States, just come back from that, just launched a book and then I'm standing at the start line. I've been so busy in the thing that I actually hadn't thought about actually running the— because I was just like, ‘Yeah, I got everything, sweet.’ And then I’m starting at the start line and I just had a panic attack, like the first real big panic attack. And I'm not, because you're staring down the barrel of this—

Mark: Like, holy shit, this is too high to climb. What the heck have I done?

Lisa: What the frick was I thinking? And I went home, we had media, we had all my crew and everybody there and I just went away behind the one of the cars and got my mum, my mummy ‘cuz she's my safe place, went to my mummy and I just bawled my eyes out. And said, ‘Mum I can't do this, I don't know what the frick I was thinking. I can't, and there's no way out.’ And mum's just like, ‘Hey,’ as she hugged me, as mums do. And she said, ‘You don't need to do 2,250 today. All I want you to focus on is that little box up there,’ you know, that was a couple of hundred meters up the road. ‘That's what you got to do right now. And then you're going to, you're going to get through to lunchtime, and then you're gonna have lunch. And then we're going to get through to this and that.’

She just broke it down into pieces, and she took all of that load that I was just like, ‘Oh my God, this is huge,’ and she broke it into one step at a time, basically. And that was some of the greatest learnings that I've taken away for every event that I've done when— and there have been times when I've broken and I've just crashed on the ground. I don't know how to get up and people have come along and they've got me up and walked me through the next few steps. Or the next— and that has gotten you over that hump, you know? And I just wait, you know, that's so much gold, right there, what you've just said. I think if we can do that in daily life so when we're faced with some big scary thing coming at us, how do I just get through this moment? And we're very— if you can get through these impulses, you know, like there's 30 seconds, through the 30 seconds almost, sometimes you can get to a place where you can cope again. And then you can sort of get back up.

Mark: And this goes back to like the internal dialogue. Most people don't examine their internal dialogue. And this is where meditation is so critical. And you can also consider, like running or swimming or biking, endurance sports generally, are also very good for examining internal dialogue, because you're going to meet resistance. How you talk to yourself has an incredible impact on your energy and your motivation. Literally, we use the terminology ‘feeding the courage wolf’ versus ‘feeding the fear wolf’. Feeding fear is allowing negative dialogue and negative imagery and negative emotions to kind of run the rule the roost of your psychology, and that weakens you. Negative thoughts demonstrably weaken you as a human being.

Lisa: Yeah, because—

Mark: They're gonna not just weaken your motivation but literally musculature-wise you get weaker, and that's been proven through kinesiology. So positive thoughts create a higher vibration, which bring more energy, more access to more creativity and motivation. And so you got to train positive thoughts. That's what I mean by feeding the courage wolf. And the more you feed the courage wolf by training positive mantras and positive thoughts, then the more you starve the fear wolf until he goes away, until he just doesn't have the food anymore. And those patterns dry up and blow away. So I created a bunch of positive mantras that I would say in the SEAL training, and they're still with me today.

As soon as I start a hard workout, they kick back in. ‘Feeling good, I'm looking good, ought to be in Hollywood. Feeling good, I'm looking good, ought to be in Hollywood. I can get out of me in Hollywood. I've got this easy day, piece of cake. Boo yeah, hey, got this. Easy day, piece of cake. Boo yeah, hey.’ And then I'll synchronise that with my breathing. So, hardcore, run three steps and inhale 1, 2, 3, ‘I've got this. Easy day. Piece of cake.’ Exhale 1, 2, 3. Right.

Lisa: And the rhythm is good too, hey.

Mark: Yeah, exactly. So I was synchronising those before, the big four. The first skill I said, box breathing, it's really breath control. Running, anything you're doing, always breathing through your nose as best as possible, and controlling the breathing and creating a nice rhythmic pattern with the breathing. It's going to be different depending upon what you're doing. If you're lifting weights, gonna be one thing, if you're running another, swimming another. Swimming creates its own little breathing patterns, because head in the water versus out of the water. But just starting there, controlling your breathing and adding a positive mantra, or a positive internal statement that's linked to the breath is transformative. Not only does it keep you in the game athletically or whatever, but when you do this during your regular day, day in and day out, you're training your mind to be really positive and to be very concentrated. So you're developing concentration power. So you're turning your mind from like a scattered floodlight, which is flickering on and off, the monkey mind, to a very, very concentrated laser beam that you can point that laser beam on anything, any task, any project, and it deeply improves your productivity, the ability to get things done, you know, significantly.

Lisa: Wow.

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Mark: And then the imagery, right, the imagery. Well, let me backup. The other thing that that process of paying attention to the quality of your thoughts and changing them to positive thoughts, and increasing your concentration power, as you start to look at the dialogue too, in your head. What is actually going on? And you recognise that typically what's going on in your head is a series of statements that are also based upon belief systems, but it can be framed as questions. When people say, ‘I don't think I can do this,’ what they're really saying is, ‘Am I worthy? Am I competent?’

We can begin to recognise that our belief systems are based upon questions and statements that may or may not be true. And so you want to take a look at the ones that are questionable, especially if they have a negative quality, and say, ‘Is that true?’ And you realise, ‘It’s not true. I am worthy. I am competent.’ Now, I may not feel that yet. But the more I tell myself that and the more I can see that in myself, and the more that I meditate and actually feel into my worthiness and my confidence, and the more I work to eradicate the emotional side or shadow that may have, be tied to related to that — for me, it was because of the childhood abuse, I kind of felt a little unworthiness and whatnot, even though I was capable as a SEAL, it's still kind of plagued me for a while, until I had to stare down that wolf of fear and be like, ‘Yeah, that's all bullshit. That's just a story that I'm holding on to and I was able to release all that energy and feel that worthiness now.’ Then that leads to a whole nother set of questions, which are extraordinarily empowering, right. So when I— understanding your capability as a human being, the potential that you have, the power that we have, you can then project that into the future and say, ‘What does victory look like for me?’ Right? ‘If I'm going to run this 2,000 meter, or 2,000 kilometer race, and I'm going to raise money for charity, what is that for? What's my ‘why’? And what does victory look like?’

You get a clear sense of what victory looks like. And then you can even do that with the micro parts. So you chunked it down into 100 kilometer segments, let's just say. What does victory look like for that segment for the next five days? What does it look like for today? What does it look like— this is, in a sense, what your mom was doing, but she was doing it from the other way around. What does it look like for the next six hours? What does it look like for the next three hours? You get a clear picture because you're asking the right questions, and you're winning in your mind before you step foot into the battlefield. So asking really powerful questions like, what does victory look like? Who is on my team? Who's got my back? Why am I doing this? How is it related to my purpose in my life? These are the questions that we start asking, because now we've drowned out the negative incessant chatter, which is just holding us back and distracting us. We've created this space, and I use the metaphor still water pond. We've taken our mind and we've created it instead of this choppy, you know, bouncing all over the place, turbulent thought stream, largely negative, we've calmed down. And it's now this still water, and on this still water, you can look at it, you can really see a reflection clearly. So that's kind of a nice thing, you get to see your true self more clearly, but also, what you drop into that water in terms of the thought is going to ripple out and affect everything. So you end up dropping thought seeds that are really powerful, instead of chaotic and negative.

Lisa: Because there's this whole, these automatic negative thoughts and if we think about how we evolved that was there for our survival. Because we needed to be aware of dangers and things in our environment, so we were always looking for the bad thing that was going to come at us. But in our world now, where we just, we have this constant chatter in our head. And it's, you know, I've certainly dealt with this for a long time, and I and I fought against the whole sitting still thing, and focusing inwards. Because it's very unpleasant, when you having— when you want to move, you just want to move. Give me a hard ass workout, any day, over meditation, you know, because it's just like this energy, this agitation, but that's why I need to do it. So that I can break through that piece of the puzzle. And then you can tap into strengths that you didn't know you had, and quietness, and then you start to really reflect and like, for me, it has only really been, even in the last few months where I've been—

My dad passed away, and it was one hell of a battle for his life. And I, yeah, it was a real— I was fighting against the system. And it was a mess of battle. It's all good when you win, but it's also good when you don't win. And so this one, just been— I was a bit of an existential crisis after that, because I'd lost this battle for my dad, who I loved dearly. And it made me go inward. It made me start to really question some of the biggest things because you start realising that life's short, shorter than I think it's gonna be. You want to understand why, and then going inside and doing some deep work and doing some trauma work and doing all that sort of hard stuff has been great. There's always good that comes out of shit. You never ever want to go through things like that, but when you do, you can always turn them into something, a learning curve of some sort. And having that, I was listening to you with Bedros Keulian, who's also is another one that I—

Mark: Yeah, he’s an awesome guy.

Lisa: Yeah, he's just a rock star. in you, when you were talking about how you went through the zen process where you were, for a start, you started meditating, but you're just learning to quiet the mind. And then after a few months, that became then mindfulness. Where you’re starting to observe yourself from outside in splitting the mind or somehow you put this and you're actually observing yourself as this higher self, if you like. Can you explain that a little bit? And how does that—

Mark: Yeah, so glad you brought that up. Because I wanted to talk about that. Because you're right. It's— meditation is hard, especially for active people, which everybody, everybody listening, everybody in the Western world is pretty much hyperactive. Yep, that's what we're taught; it’s reality. Like, ‘Go, go, go. Do, do, do.’ We get over-committed. Now we have, you know, constant distraction with our iPhones and social media, and it's just gonna get worse, worse, worse. Wait until we get plugged in with a neural link, you know, like, wow. So we got to push back against that. The only way to push back against that is to disconnect from all that and to sit still, or stand still, or take a walk. But don't do anything, right. Don't do it for a goal. Don't do it to check it off a box. Don't do it to be the best meditator you know.

Lisa: Tick that box.

Mark: It doesn't work, right?

Lisa: That was what I was going to—

Max: There's no goals here. Right? It's about becoming still, getting that clarity and this still water mind back, if you ever had it, but we had it when we were kids, of course, but in a different sense. So that you can evolve. You know, let me start there. I think that there's two reasons we're on this planet. One is to evolve to become the best version, highest and best version of yourself in this lifetime. The second is to align with our calling or our purpose. And those two really kind of go hand-in-hand or hand-in-glove. You can’t evolve if you're constantly doing. You actually will stay stuck. You'll keep getting your ass handed to you. You'll keep suffering. You'll keep feeling victimised. And you'll keep looking outward for the solutions. And you'll keep blaming other people, or society, or taxes, or the government, or God.

Lisa: A lot of fingers are turned.

Mark: The answers lie within, right? And so the only way to go inward is to slow down and just be quiet. Right? So it's imperative. Now, why do most people fail? A) Because everything I've just talked about, they haven't been taught this. And B) because they're body mind, their body brain is very, very agitated. It’s amped up because you've been taking all this stress on throughout your life. So what I teach is that the first step in meditation practice isn't mindfulness. It isn't a mantra practice. It's just a box breathe, which is a pattern breathe, five-count in, five-count hold, and five-count out, five-count hold, or four, or three, if you have trouble with that. And just let that nostril breathing in that massaging that the vagus nerve, stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system. And it's bleeding off stress and bringing your body brain back into my balance.

Lisa: Yep.

Mark: When your body brain is back into balance, your brain is going to experience that as a lower frequency rate. Lower frequency means fewer thoughts, right? If you're in gamma, it's like tick-tick, popcorn brain. But if you're in alpha, like listening to beautiful music, classical music, or you're maybe doing some journaling, your mind stops racing. It starts to get into—

Lisa: A lovely alpha state of focus.

Mark: Yeah, and so the box breathing practice trains your mind to get back into alpha, trains your body to de-stress, and you do this. It might take you months, usually about three months. I— my clients have this extraordinary calming that comes over them. And they're already changed. But this is, you know, just the preparatory work, right? This also, for those who are working on their physical structure in their health and their weight, this also has enormous benefits because you begin to feel a lot better. And you begin, you know, you're starting to breathe in that life force again. You're getting more oxygen with every breath, and you're retraining the breathing patterns so this becomes your more natural state. If you, let me just pause here, if you train for 20 minutes a day, have a five-count box breath, that's three breaths per minute, over time, and might take a year or more, you're gonna eventually settle into a natural breath pattern of six breaths per minute, which is now proven to the optimal.

Lisa: Exactly.

Mark: I've been doing this for years, I never knew that, it just settled out there to where six breaths per minute through the nose was standard for me, or a standard, and that's what will happen to you.

Lisa: Yep.

Mark: Yeah. But those are full breaths, full exhales, getting all the toxins out there.

Lisa: Basically the exhale.

Mark: It's enormously beneficial for your body, and everything starts to come back into balance: you start losing weight, you start eating better. Because you want to eat better, you start sleeping better, because you got all that, less cortisol and less stress. Wow, all that is foundational. Now, with all that starting to happen, after three to six months, you can start to sit comfortably, and you're starting to enjoy it, and you're starting to look forward to it. That's when we can start meditating.

Now everything looks like meditation, but you're really sitting in box breathing. But now we turn that box pattern into a concentration practice. That's part two. And so the way I teach that is to visualise the box being drawn with each side being drawn in a different color, lighting. And also adding that mantra, or one of the other, but they both work and they work together. So now you're giving your mind one thing to focus on. This then develops that power to concentrate deeper, but also gives you the ability to notice when you're— when you lost your focus, or you split your focus. You’re wandering. And then you get, develop the ability to bring it back quicker and quicker to the box better, and that's called attention control. So you're training yourself: concentration, the ability to control your attention, and the ability to be less distracted. Wow.

Now that's mind training and that's the part where I say you're training your mind first with the box breathing, then with the second part of concentration and attention control. To be like a tame, beautiful stallion that was a wild stallion. A wild stallion is gorgeous, but it's dangerous. And most people's minds are like that. They're beautiful, but they're dangerous.

Lisa: Yep.

Mark: They’re dangerous to themselves and to others. But once you train it by lassoing that mind and stabilising it and calming it down, de-stressing it and then being able to focus it, then it's much happier and it's much calmer, and it's going to serve you, instead of trampling.

Lisa: Achieve more and do more.

Mark: Right. That's step two in the process, and this might be like, again, everyone's gonna be different, but six months to one and a half years. That's step three. Some of this stuff naturally unfolds, but it's really powerful if you recognise and you're deliberate about it. You don't want to rush meditation; this is a lifetime practice. Be comfortable, get it right in the beginning, because it'll serve you for the rest of your life. So many people bounce around with meditation, they draw in it, they're off it, they quit. They're just using an audio app, you know, and they're not really training their brains. It does have some health benefits, but it's not really training their minds.

Furthermore, if you don't end up doing the emotional work, you can really do what they call spiritual bypass or an emotional bypass where you can have some nice experiences. You go for the bliss and the white light and all that. But you're not doing anything to change your character, your underlying structures of beliefs and thoughts and biases, right? I had a meditation teacher who told me, ‘Mark,’ he wasn't talking to me, he was talking about meditation. He said, ‘If you're an asshole, and you start meditating, and you meditate for 20 years, you don't do anything about that, you’re just gonna be a more focused asshole.’

Lisa: There’s just more asshole-ness. Oh no.

Mark: Right? So you want to get this right. Meditation can be transformative at all levels, but you got to do it, right. It's just like learning foot placement and proper alignment and structure to run 2,000 kilometers. If you don't, you break. Same thing with meditation. If you go straight into, like Kundalini Yoga, and you think, ‘Oh, that's it, that's my path.’ And you have a Kundalini awakening, and you haven't done the foundational work to integrate that, or to deal with that in your body, then you could go crazy. And there are people around this world who are absolutely batshit crazy, because they had Kundalini awakenings, and they weren't ready to handle it.

Lisa: Wow. Okay. So you need to do this—

Mark: You need to do this work. This is why the yogis would train for years and years and years, in the asanas, the physical postures, so that when they were ready for that experience of enlightenment, which some some had, and some didn't, and they had that massive, like lightning bolt of electricity just explode up their spine and integrate all their chakras and, and just drawing and all this life force that they were able to handle it.

Lisa: Wow.

Mark: It’s an intense experience. Now that's a little bit advanced training, probably, we don't need to go into much more of that here. But my point is that, take your time, don't be so goal-oriented with meditation. It's okay to be goal-oriented with your athleticism and with your business stuff. But when it comes to raising your kids and the meditation, it's better to be patient, and to be present and just allow the process to unfold because it's going to be a little bit different for everybody, depending upon where you are at psychosocially and physically and emotionally.

One thing I do want— so one thing I just want to finish up this part. So you have the first part, which is the de-stressing the routes of control where you're just breathing for that. Then the second part where you're breathing for concentration, power, and attention control. The third part, which you alluded to, that opens up naturally, is you start to take a little bit of the pressure off of the concentration training, and you allow any thoughts streams to arise. Where concentration training, you're trying to like— you're not trying to empty your mind of all thoughts, because you're thinking of one thing, and that is the concentration, you know, the object of concentration. And so you're putting a lot of effort into that, mental effort, which develops mental power. But eventually, you've got enough of that. And so you, you take off the gas a little bit, and you allow less energy to put it— be put into the concentration and allow other things to arise.

This is where you get that metacognitive split, which is interesting. So now it's almost like your brain has been partitioned into two hard drives. And one hard drive is your right brain and right hemisphere, which is fully online and aware now, because of the concentration. It’s not all subconscious, it's aware, say able to see context. And the second partition is the left hemisphere of your brain, which is the content, thinking. And so your box breathing softly, just, mindfully, this being aware, and you're seeing what's coming up. But you're seeing it from a perspective that's separated from the thoughts and emotions. This is a sea change in behavior. It's awakening to this understanding that you are not your thoughts and emotions. And therefore you're not the stories and you can change your stories, you can change your life by inserting new stories.

Lisa: So you're observing yourself from the outside as an extra character that's watching the emotions and the things that you're off and understanding the actual brain that's been partly programmed in childhood and our culture and everything that it's exposed to, which is running this pattern that's been running forever. And you're actually watching and saying, ‘Well, that's interesting.’

Mark: I do that in the observer. Yeah. I call that the witness.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: So then, there's two more things we do in meditation. So once you begin to open up to the witness, the most powerful way to visualise is from the witness perspective, because you're doing it from your higher self, you're visualising your future from that perspective. It's just, a lot of people start training, they start with visualisation, and they're like, I can't get a clear picture of my future. And they're really hooked to their thinking mind and they're thinking about doing in the future. When you can decouple from the thinking mind and look into the future from the perspective of your witness, you're basically seeing what your spirit wants you to see. And so that's going to be much more in alignment, if not in total alignment with what your real purpose is on this planet. And you're not seeing yourself doing, you're seeing yourself as a type of person, like an archetype or calling. Seeing yourself as a healer, as a teacher, as a warrior, as a leader, as a— and then that's gonna have a certain flavor to it, like a healer might be a healer of the earth, or it might be healer of children, or it might be healer of elderly, right, so it's gonna have a flavor to it, that's going to come to you spontaneously.

That's where intuition comes from. It's like this deep knowingness inside, or transrational, from outside of us, which really isn't, nothing outside of us. Ultimately, we create our own reality. It's all basically, it's all experienced with mind. So that's powerful. So witnessing can lead to the most incredible thing, which is, like embodied visualisation, where you're visualising from the perspective of the witness, and you are seeing your future clearly. And you practice that every day. And then that creates this massive magnetic pole. Because you're actually creating a memory of a future that is bound to happen, right? You know, we have these different kind of futures strands, which are possibilities, but we get to choose which one now, that's going to become the go from possibility to probability to destiny.

Lisa: Wow.

Mark: That's profound. And then the last thing that happens is, when you stop doing anything at all, and this happened to me on the on zen bench when I was in my 20s. Now it's routine, where you know, you can start breathing, for control, and then you breathe for concentration, then you open up to the mindful awareness, and you see what's going on and check in and make sure that everything's cool. And then you do your visualisation, and then you just stop efforting at all, you just stop trying to do anything, and you just sit and rest and let your mind rest. You're not going to sleep. But what you're doing is kind of turning inward and just letting awareness kind of search for itself. So awareness, your awareness is searching for, let's just say, absolute awareness, is trying to recognise itself in the totality of everything. And it will find itself because it is the same as that.

This is when you get this incredibly, deeply connected feeling to all that is, right? This is where you know, the ultimate road to the end of separation is this sense, this unity we experience.We're super easily connected. We all arise on same thing. Our higher selves all arise from the same thing, we have our unique aspects of it. But the metaphor is that I love to use is, you know, we recognise that we're all like waves in the ocean. But we're still all, we all have the same awareness and we're connected to the ocean.

Lisa: If we were part of the ocean, vessel in the ocean.

Mark: This is another transformative experience in meditators’ progression and evolution is that they then never, never do go back to feeling separate again. You may have moments but you remember, ‘Oh, yeah, this is just a temporary experience of separation. So let me go back and continue my training.’ And then the training starts to become integrated into your daily life, and then every moment becomes training, and then you've— that turns into a permanent state of unity experience. And that's, that would be called enlightenment.

Lisa: Wow. And this is like the whole body things, it's not just training your body because everyone wants to know, ‘What diet should I have and what exercise should I be doing?’ We’re forgetting this big piece of the puzzle that we're not just physical beings, and that we can access our neurology, through our physiology, and we can access also higher, higher things if we take the time. It was a hard sell for me, like I said. I struggled because I just wanted to be doing. I'm an action-oriented person, I want to be doing things and to actually take that time and it's not a waste of time, even though you know when people say to me, ‘But I haven't got time to meditate.’ Well then, you need to make time to do all this stuff. Because— and you start off you don't start off eight hours a day up in the mountains. You gotta progress.

Mark: You’re not sure you might want to do that. That's—

Lisa: Really great. There was one other thing that you discussed too, with Bedros that really interested me, which was recapitulation. Can you explain what recapitulation is and how that works?

Mark: I will. And before I do, I would like to just say that as an athlete, I imagine most people listening are athletes, we have a great opportunity and also great responsibility. Because most of the people, at least in the past who have been drawn to meditation don't have the physical strength or capacity that we have. And so you end up seeing you know, this might be one thing that has turned off a lot of people, you know, healthy people fit people, is there— that Buddhist monk is fat, right?

Lisa: He doesn't look like I want to look like.

Mark: Right. I don't want to look like that, or I don't want to wear a robe, check out a society and sit in a monastery woods. And yeah, yeah, and I— so those, you got to recognise that like zen monasteries, I've been to zen monastery before, and it's just not my thing. And people who are drawn to spiritual traditions, but ignore their body, and ignore their emotions, they're incomplete. They might have some advanced mental training, but they're incomplete. The physical structure— and a lot of these people fall, right, they fail in the long run, because they still get stuck in their ego, or they get really unhealthy and they fall apart. So athletes can approach this from the perspective of total health, right? Body, mind, spirit, and we say physical, mental, emotional, intuitional, and spiritual. And it's going to be a more complete process, or package. And furthermore, you're going to be able to help others because you're going to be really healthy and really strong, really motivated. And you're gonna have a lot of endurance. Yeah, and you're gonna happen, you're gonna be whole. So I think it's athletes and warriors who also become enlightened or awakened, who are serving the world, who are— who can change the world.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: Together, right, because we got the strength and the staying power. And also, because we're— you know, we have to face our fears and our shadows, because we do hard things, we tend to actually be more emotionally balanced than people who don't. So that's— I wanted to say, that's a really— that should be a motivating force.

Lisa: I mean, that's, you know, like, you know, we’ve sort of come full circle in this holistic approach, rather than a hit through the wall approach. Which, you know, in the gym, or in the training field, you have to go sometimes to, through to places that are not pleasant. But you don't need to neglect this other part of you, and that that's your whole and it's not contradictory, because a lot of people think, you know, ‘Mark Divine, what's he about, man? Is he this hard ass athlete? Or is he this amazing spiritual teacher?’ And he, well he's both, you know, and—

Mark: I’ve done my three hours of training this morning.

Lisa: I haven't.

Mark: Today was deadlifts in a nice functional lot and my yoga and meditation all together. It's all one thing. Back to your question. So imagery and visualisation is just such an incredible powerful tool for us to create our destiny, which I've already talked about, but also to heal our past. So recapitulating is where we use imagery, ideally, also, from the state of the witness, right? When we get there, to go back into our past and to relive, re-experience and relive traumatic events. And then to recontextualise them and to forgive both from your heart and from your dialogue, conceptual stuff, but also with the imagery to see yourself forgiving your younger version of yourself.

And then to change that picture, to change the image that you associated with it, and the energy associated with it. This is often best done with a qualified coach or like therapist, in the process of like EMDR, eye motion desensitisation training. It’s really valuable, and that's something I do all the time. I have an EMDR coach, and I continue to do this because there's no there there, right? You can peel the onion forever. And then many, many past lives, right work on the past life, right? There's no end to this stuff, right? Once you get into it, you realise that this is a lifetime of work. And the more you do, the lighter you feel, and the more energy you have, and the more joy and bliss you bring into life. I like, I call it akin to like dragging kettlebells of regret and resentment.

Lisa: I love that quote, because you're draining all that, like what I've felt in the last years, like I'm pulling this heavy load of shit that's accumulated from all the traumas and all the shit. And so I've been working with Dr Don Wood, I know he's been on your show, working through some of the traumas and taking the colour out of those memories and recapitulation or what—

Mark: What Dan is doing is recapitulation, it’s a form of it.

Lisa: It’s the same thing.

Mark: It's the same thing: to change the association, the energy, the emotions, and the imagery with past traumatic events. First, you have to identify those events, right? So awareness is the first step. I learned to recapitulation, I've done thousands of hours of training in different systems, not just Navy SEALs, but obviously yoga and Tibetan Buddhism and martial arts, tai chi, qi gong, and now aikido and my earlier stuff, and then even a patchy scout training and some Toltec training. Toltec training, they're— the ancient warriors. required the young men— I don't know if I don't think the women in ancient times— and the Toltecs were warriors, but the men. By the way, I only say that because of all the culture weirdness is going on in America anyways. Yeah.

Lisa: You got to be careful what you say.

Mark: I don't want to get canceled.

Lisa: Google might take us off here.

Mark: Right, exactly. So they require the young men, before they were allowed to become warriors, to spend a year in nature. Now that's, people heard of that, right? You can take your year walkabout and assuming you survive. But what they had to do during that year was what was unique. They had to recapitulate their entire lives, day by day, all the way back to birth.

Lisa: Wow. It’s heavy.

Mark: It's heavy. So this did a couple of things for them. One is it really developed their visualisation skills.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: Which then they were going to use for great benefit for their future, but they had to learn, you know, first, to work with their past and secondarily, let them see and recontextualise and heal any regrets or any wounds or any trauma that they had, or any mistakes that they made. So that when they were admitted to the warrior clan, and they actually had to face battle, they didn't have any of that energy holding them back.

Lisa: That's so—

Mark: If you think about anyone listening or even you, if you walk outside right now, and someone's standing there with a sword, first thing that’s gonna leap into your mind and your heart is like, ‘Holy shit. I don't know if I can do this.’ Or there's energy there that is going to prevent you from acting in a powerful way. Well, recapitulation and clearing all the energy will clear all that up, and you would just literally spring into action.

Lisa: Wow, so you wouldn't have that?

Mark: You wouldn’t have that, you even overcome fear of death.

Lisa: Yeah. Wow. You haven't got that heavy backpack of shit.

Mark: Right. Exactly. I love that metaphor. We use that in our Kokoro camp, which is 50-hour training that we have for SEALFIT, which, at once, in one sense, simulates Hell Week. But in other it’s really designed to train these five mountains of the physical, mental, emotional, intuitional, and spiritual. We have, the students end up in this very long, painful hike, and they've got these 40-pound sandbags in their back, and they're doing all sorts of drills and skills. At the end of this, we haven't take the sandbag out. You think about their biggest regrets, like the big one. Like everyone's got like one big one. The monster regret. And then we have them cut the sandbag, open, and then they dump that regret out. And it's so powerful, because people are literally in tears as they let that shit go.

Lisa: Wow, that is, that's amazing. Because you've literally carried it up this bloody mountain. You've exhausted yourself. You're letting that stuff go. It's absolutely brilliant. And I think, yeah, we need to be doing, and then doing this as a daily practice at the end of the day, going back over your day, so that you’re not taking the shit from this day forward.

Mark: Yeah, I'm glad you said that. So that the morning routine is to prepare to win your mind for the day and the evening routine is to look back and make sure that you won the day and you learn from your mistakes, and you let go of all regret. So recapitulation is used in two ways. One is to go back and overcome the big things, the big traumas, like you're doing with Don.

Lisa: Yep.

Mark: And the other is to go back and to literally just make sure that every day that you're not dragging any new kettlebells of regret into your sleep cycle. You deal with it right away. If you did something that you think, ‘Oh, man, I wish I hadn't done that.’ Well, either forgive yourself right away, or go make amends right there if you can. Pick up the phone. Send a text. Do it now. Or plan the critical conversation for the next morning to get it off your chest.

The faster you do, the better off you do. Then this becomes a practice of letting go and having a daily practice of letting go of regrets and resentments is extraordinarily valuable, right? Because then it frees up all the energy before it takes root and starts to create a cancer of energy in your body, or real cancer, literally.

Lisa: Yeah. And then we've got much more power to actually do the stuff that we’re meant to be here doing, to create the programs, the books, podcasts, whatever it is that you are in for. You can't when you're carrying this huge great load on your back, yeah, I don't know. My ability when I was in my 30s and I didn't have quite so much crap in there, I was unbeatable. I was like, and then as life keeps slapping you around the face, and you're getting some big traumas happen, you start to lose that energy and you start to like, live. And people go, ‘Oh, well, we’re just getting older, you know, the mitochondria and all that.’ I was like, ‘Yeah, well—’

Mark: This is where people start to give up, right?

Lisa: Yeah!

Mark: And that's, no. It's the time to get busy.

Lisa: And the older you are, the more you have to work. That's my mantra because I've brought my mum back from a massive, massive aneurysm, which I've written a book about called Relentless. And this story is really, really powerful. And, but it's about like, she's 79 years old and I train her like an Olympic athlete.

Mark: That’s awesome.

Lisa: I make little concessions every now and again, which tells me off, like the other day, she's, she's willing to go through the hard yards to rehabilitate her brain because her brain was in a vegetative state when she first had this. Not much happening upstairs at all. I’ve spent five years rehabilitating her, and spending hundreds and thousands of hours, retraining her from the time of being a baby, but like a being a baby, being an adult, and read the neuroplasticity, and all the things that I had to learn and hyperbaric, and through all the stuff that I did with her.

She hasn't given up. She hasn't ever said to me, ‘I don't want to anymore.’ Because she's a fighter. Even though she's a quiet, lovely lady, and you think well, that she's just a nice, gentle lady, she's tough as nails when it comes to just getting up and doing the work today, at the age of 79. That is a huge role model for other elderly people. Because we tend to— and I really honor our elderly, you know, they're part of my culture, I'm from Maori culture, and we do that quite well. And in normal culture, we seem to tend to think that, you know, older people are no longer worthwhile, and they should, they cost the society and though they're a burden, and they're not. This is where our wisdom and their experience if we can help them be healthy and strong, and my opinion is that they have to have goals, and they have to be working. People always told me, ‘You should make it comfortable. And, you know, hasten her exit of this world.’ And I'm like, ‘Hell no.’

Occasionally, like, the other day, I was pushing down on the back, and she's doing squats, you know, to give her some weight resistance, because I can't put a barbell over here. For once, she comes up and she goes, ‘I want to punch you in the face.’ And I was like, ‘This the first time in years!’

Mark: There’s the fighter!

Lisa: She usually just does whatever I ask her to do, but she’d had enough of me that day. But she fights every day, you know, and that those sort of stories are powerful. But you know, you have to, she just gets up and does the work every day. So it's never too late. And we should be honoring our elderly people, we should be giving them goals. I don't care whether you're five or 105, you need to be aiming towards something. When you let go and you be comfortable, and you just get into your comfy world. And this is you know, I'm going to sit back on the couch and watch Netflix and eat chips. Well then you’re on the way down.

Mark: You're toast. Yeah, that's why the idea of retirement is such a killer. It's just a horrible deceit. So get rid of that thought, don't ever retire, just change what you do and find something else you'd love to do and keep on setting goals and achieving and growing. Yeah, keep growing.

Lisa: Yeah, that's absolutely true. Mark, you've been absolutely amazing. I want to be respectful of your time, because I could talk to you for hours. Literally, honestly, I'd love to just unpack all this stuff. But you've been absolutely amazing. Now you have a number of books, you have courses online, and then you have live training camps that people can go to, which, I’ll think twice about. I think they’ll be really tough ones. But where can people find you, your books? All of it.

Mark: I love your sell there, ‘Think twice about going to his training.’ That's probably a good advice. Well, my personal website is www.markdivine.com. They're just kind of like a catch all, and my podcast can be found there. You can find my podcast at iTunes and all that. And then follow me on Instagram, @realmarkdivine. And books, if you're interested in this training, you know, here's my last like this one, Unbeatable Mind is where it all started. And I'm actually working on the fourth edition, my pandemic edition will be out in September. Staring Down the Wolf is came out last year, right before the pandemic. This is about emotionally powerful leadership. And then The Way of the SEAL is really like how to think and lead like in the lead warrior, like how to get shit done. And there's some really good stuff in all these books, and they're all, there's a little overlap, but they're all very, very different.

Lisa: That actually, just before we do wrap up. That leadership piece of the puzzle, I have to ask this, because my husband's a firefighter and he's leading teams and so on. How do you get— if I can just ask for a couple of quick tips on the leadership stuff because it's probably another bloody hour. But how can you be a good leader? How can you get people who are disengaged back into the game, into the team, being part of a team?

Mark: You know, that's a really good question.

Lisa: Yeah, I’m sorry I only thought of it now.

Mark: The first thing to do as a leader is to show up as the best version of yourself: humble, authentic, trustworthy, courageous, and respectful. To develop those qualities takes some time, and you got to work on that. And you got to work on it with the team, in front of the team, and not hide it from the team. And not pretend to be perfect, not pretend you have all the answers. So most leaders are, in their own way, in terms of being able to unlock the power of their team, because they don't, the team doesn't trust them, because they don't know they're wearing a mask. So take the mask off, develop your whole self as a leader.

Then what we like to do in our company, Unbeatable, is we like to develop leaders. We like to create teams within the companies that we work with, for the sole purpose of development, which is really cool. We call them boat crews. So imagine you're in a company or a fire department, and you're in a boat crew with guys that are working on becoming better versions of themselves. You’re working on things like we've been talking about. That ends up developing incredible trust and motivation. Because now everyone's— they're taking the mask off together, and they're holding each other accountable to be better people. And then they go out and fight a fire together. That's simple things, it's like box breathing with your team. It’s very intimate, and it creates this incredible resonance and trust with people.

You start to recognise, like we were saying earlier, that we're not separate. One of the best ways to be motivated, to help someone who's unmotivated get motivated, help them in separation themselves to feel connected.

Lisa: Yep. And how do they get him to take that mask off and let you know, because you said once somewhere, that leaders are also followers, and that when you're— like the team is the new way of the future. The team is the new leader, and leader follower?

Mark: The way we do it, is to put everyone together into a crucible experience, into some experience where they literally cannot solve the challenges alone. This is why we do these events that we have, they’re not all hard. The SEAL events, the SEALFIT events are ridiculously hard, and they’re for people like you. In SpecOps candidates for FCS or SEALs or Green Berets, whatever. But with Unbeatable Mind, my company, I'm doing mine, which is the same behind me. We do this with corporate clients. And we have 50 year old women who are out of shape and they're like, ‘Aah!’ But we don't beat ‘em up like Navy SEAL training, we just get everyone uncomfortable together. This will be like doing yoga and breathwork and ice baths, and integrated training. We teach them a lot of the skills of Unbeatable, all the skills of Unbeatable Mind.

We have them do it together as a team, we have them hold each other accountable, we have them really open up and develop more of that vulnerability. It's really uncomfortable for a lot of people. We did an event last week where two of the individuals hadn't even spoken to each other in over a year. By the end of the event, they were hugging. They were like, ‘Wow. I'm sorry that I treated you like that, and I projected all that on you.’

It really helps— we start all of our training events with corporate teams, or organisation teams, or even athletic teams with a three-day or two-and-a-half to three-day event like this, which is very, very dynamic, very integrated, it’s not all— it's only a little bit of physical training. But it's definitely there, right? They're learning all these skills, all five mountains, they're doing physical, mental, emotional, intuitional, and spiritual development as a team. After that, we work with them for a minimum of four to six months in a boat crew, in a small team setting with a certified coach. The combination of those two is just transformative, because then they're practising all the skills we talked about both individually, but all the team and they're being held accountable. They're doing challenges together, they're having really authentic communications together and they're working on emotional things, are working on their mental strength and physical strength and setting goals. It's really, really powerful.

Lisa: It must completely change corporations when you do that in teams—

Mark: Yeah, it can be.

Lisa: Because we will go to— a lot of people go to work and they have this professional persona that they put on and they're all doing their interactions with this. And then they go home and—

Mark: They take the mask off and pick up the beer or the wine.

Lisa: Yeah, because of the frustration and, ‘Oh my God, I'm not coping.’ And if we can, I often get, I know we have to wrap it up. But if we can, you know, like, just be real with each other. We're human beings. We do not have to go around like the Queen of England and observe all these protocols and stuff and be professional. Can’t we just be us, you know?

Mark: People are craving leaders who are real.

Lisa: Yeah.

Mark: And that's what we need. And that's what we need to work on. Just doing the work that we talked about today brings it right, it brings that reality back. Because you're discovering the truth of your own nature. And then as a leader, you just want to bring that to your team. First is how you show up. And then by starting to introduce these ideas, and then by starting to train together, and eventually, I think, where the world will change is when, when we all start changing yourselves. But then, we then— each organisation becomes a change agent internally, meaning you're changing the people, you're not trying to have a bunch of jerks, trying to change the world through donating to some social cause, or demanding some social cause on social media. You're all changing. The organisation is changing, because you've got the practices, you're practising breathing and mindfulness and authentic communications and compassion within the workforce. And then that shows up in how you interact with your customers and how you interact with the environment, etcetera.

Lisa: It just covers that whole area in this theme of leaders-followers and having that change around. Just because you're the one that's got the officer or whatever on your shoulders, it doesn't mean that you are always in the lead role. Sometimes you can be in the follower, if you've got that and having been comfortable with that.

Mark: That's right.

Lisa: I think that this is a good place to wrap it up. Mark, you've been absolutely wonderful today. Thank you so much. So unbeatablemind.com. The three books, The Way of the SEAL Unbeatable Mind, and what was the other one again?

Mark: Staring Down the Wolf. And I’m going to say, we have this amazing entry course that we created this year. It's a 30-day challenge course, where it's a 15 minutes training day. I have a video training, and then there's a little journaling. And it can be found at www.unbeatablemind.com/challenge.

Lisa: Wow. And we can do this online.

Mark: You can do it all online. I’ll email you. And people love it. And it's a great way to learn box breathing and visualisation and micro goals and a lot of things we talked about. It's super cheap. Like it's ridiculously cheap.

Lisa: It sounds a good—

Mark: $99 or something like that. So check it out.

Lisa: That sounds like a really good place for people who, you know, stuck in New Zealand can't fly to America together.

Mark: That's right. Yeah.

Lisa: Or something. Right. Which I'd love to. Mark Divine, you've been amazing. You're just incredible, man. And I thank you so much for your time today.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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When your loved one has a serious illness, the world feels a bit darker. But you shouldn’t lose hope. In this episode, I talk to Cushla Young, my lifelong friend and the co-author of Relentless. This book recounts my mother’s road to recovery despite seemingly insurmountable odds.

Cushla and I talk about the challenges my family and I face to cope with my mum’s sudden illness. You’ll also hear a little from my mum and her experiences through this ordeal.

Our circumstances didn't stop me from being relentless. My goal was for my mum to recover, despite the experts saying otherwise. I wanted to extend my mother's lifespan and give her the best quality of life I can. Throughout my mother's treatment and rehabilitation, I had to step up and take control. I managed to compartmentalise things before they got out of hand.

If you want to learn about my relentless effort to defy the odds, this episode is for you. You will gain insights into how I challenged myself to keep my family together in a time of crisis.

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If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover my relentless journey of helping my mother recover from aneurysm. 2. Learn important lessons about the value of health and extending your loved ones’ lifespan. 3. Gain insights from how I maintained my composure and became the backbone of my family in these difficult times.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Relentless: How a mother and daughter defied the odds * Listen to other Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + #71: Cushla Young- Seizing the Day in Paradise + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova

Episode Highlights [04:43] Cushla’s Interview with Lisa’s Mum, Isobel * As an educator, Isobel shares that she felt terrible when the doctors told her about what she can't do after the aneurysm. * Getting a driver’s license boosted Isobel’s confidence. * Isobel advises people who are going through a rough time to hang in there and continue to fight. * To maintain her health, Isobel is currently going to the gym, taking yoga, undergoing hyperbaric treatment and attending art classes. She feels amazing about herself.

[14:04] How an Aneurysm Affected Isobel and the Family * After the aneurysm, Isobel went from an active individual to someone who couldn’t function. * Lisa shares some medical mishaps on the day her mum was rushed to the hospital. These mishaps caused delays in Isobel’s surgery. * It took 18 hours for Isobel to be taken into surgery because she had to be airlifted to another hospital. * The fear of death coming to her mum was a big wake up call for Lisa.

[20:03] Lisa’s Relentless Fight for Her Mum’s Life * In the initial phases, Lisa was in shock and was extremely terrified. After processing the situation, she was in a ‘mission mode’. * Lisa’s father came up to her, saying that they needed to plan the funeral despite Isobel still being alive. * When people are in crisis, you need to take control and give them jobs, so they don't panic. * Over the next few weeks, Lisa was relentless in organising her family and the logistics surrounding her mum’s medical needs.

[26:14] Sustaining Herself Throughout This Journey * Lisa shares her experience crossing the Libyan desert with an abusive boyfriend. During that extreme situation, she learned to compartmentalise. * She will fall apart, but not right now when there’s something that needs to be done. * Lisa and her family had to stay with Isobel in the hospital around the clock for she could go any moment. * Lisa also had to learn a lot about aneurysms, medicine and rehabilitation. * Amidst all this, Lisa’s dad experienced heart problems, so he had to go home.

[32:17] The Importance of Self-Care * Lisa knows the value of exercise and having fresh air from time to time. * She made sure to take at least half an hour to an hour for herself. * When you’re in stressful situations, you tend to put self-care aside. * However, it’s vital to have systems in place to manage the stress so that you’re prepared to continue fighting.

[35:02] Lisa’s Family * Lisa’s brothers were very supportive throughout the whole process. * Lisa’s family trusted her and what she told them to do. Her father also stepped up to help. * He was relentless in caring for and supporting his wife’s recovery.

[38:25] Coming Home from Wellington after the Surgery * Lisa was happy that her mother was stable. But she is also worried during the flight because any dropping of pressure could cause Isobel’s death. * Lisa sneaked into the hospital to have a friend check her mother for sleep apnea. And the results confirmed her suspicions. * She had to convince the medical staff to provide her mother with a C-pap machine. * Her mother could breathe properly with the machine.

[44:43] Moving Lisa’s Ageing Mother * Lisa shared how they came up against people who insisted on having her mother placed in a facility. * A social worker was against them having a caregiver. * Lisa shares that she had to fight for the resources she wanted for her mother.

[46:08] Caring for Isobel at Home * Lisa and her family were willing and able to care for Isobel in the comforts of their home. * A social worker told her that they wouldn't be able to care for her mother adequately. * But Lisa remained relentless in the face of all these judgements. She and her family wouldn’t go down without a fight.

[50:57] The Importance of Mindset * Professionals show you statistics based on their knowledge and experience. Don't discount their expertise, but don't lose hope. * How you approach things is critical. You have the power to control your health and well-being. * Lisa brings her mum to the gym daily for this reason. Lisa wants Isobel surrounded by athletes pushing their limits. * If you want to stay alive, you need to work hard to keep fit and healthy.

[1:00:28] Living and Lasting Longer * Living a relentless life means taking lots of small steps and letting them accumulate. * By being relentless, you’ll find more fulfilment and last longer. * Lisa shares that she wants to push degeneration out for as long as possible. * There’s a lot of research now that helps you live longer and better. Don’t feel guilty for investing in your health. * If you want to learn more about how Lisa takes care of her body and her family, tune in to the full episode.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘She was really the rock of my world. And then that turned upside down very much overnight. And you go from being this adult kid to complete role reversal where you're now having to do everything for your mum.’

‘We need to set up systems and processes and understand our own bodies and how our bodies work so that we can manage the stress levels.’

‘What I want people to understand is you have to fight for the resources that you want for your loved one.’

‘I'm only ever going to listen to the ones that tell me I can do, not the ones that I tell me I can't do. They may be right. I'm not saying they're not right, but I'm gonna throw the book at this. I'm gonna do whatever it takes.’

‘They're (professionals) making educated guesses, based on the statistics of the past whatever and their experiences. And I get that. And we can't give people false hope. But we've also can't take away all hope.’

‘The older you get, the more effort you have to put into [working hard] if you want to stay alive... If you still want to be alive and enjoy life, then you have to fight for it.’

‘If you have some self-care and take those small steps, whatever that may look like for you at the time of your life, then you are living a life that is relentless.’

About Cushla Cushla Young is a life-long friend of Lisa. They met in a running retreat they both participated in 7 to 8 years ago. She is also the co-author of Lisa’s book, Relentless: How a mother and daughter defied the odds.

Cushla is a teacher at the St. John Bosco School, New Plymouth. She is also a Trustee and Educational Coordinator at the Taranaki Gifted Community Trust. Having an interest in gifted education, Cushla provides intellectual and creative ways to support students with advanced and complex learning skills.

The other things Cushla is passionate about are digital technology, literacy and pedagogy. Cushla currently lives in New Zealand with her family.

If you want to reach out to Cushla, you can find her on Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can find comfort and hope in fighting for their loved ones’ lives.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hey everyone. And before we get on the way with the show today, I just want to remind you to check out all our great programs that we have. We have our www.runninghotcoaching.com, where you can find out all about our online run training system, we get video analysis, your customised personalised plan made specifically for you, and ongoing support and help and education around everything running. So check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.

We also have our flagship epigenetics program, which is all about optimising your genetics and making the best out of them and how to do that. Understanding what your genes are all about and how to get the right food, the right exercise, the right timings for everything. Understanding every aspect of your life, your place, your career, your social environment, all of these things, your predispositions and much more. So check that out. Go to lisatamati.com and hit the work with us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program right there.

Also a reminder to check out the longevity and anti-ageing supplement that I am now importing into New Zealand and Australia in conjunction with Dr Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist who is behind this product. Now this is all about the sirtuin genes basically, which are all your longevity genes. Now NMN is a precursor to something called NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And this is an absolutely essential compound for every in every single molecule— every single cell, I should say, of your body. It's very important in regards to ATP production, and in regards to metabolic health, in regards to autophagy, in regards to sirtuin genes and upregulating those. Make sure you check out the episodes that I did with Dr. Elena Seranova and head on over to www.nmnbio.nz if you want to find more about the science of that, and why I am super excited about this product, this longevity and anti ageing product, NMN.

Right. Now, today I have something very, very different. I've turned the tables on myself and I have a very dear friend interviewing me about our book that we wrote together. Cushla Young, she's a, got a master's in English and she is the person who helped me rescue my book when I had a hell of a mess, basically. So I hope you're gonna enjoy this interview. This is all about my mum's story. It's about mindset. It's about going up against all the odds, it's about going against the establishment. So it's a lot of things we cover in this interview. So you're also going to hear from my very special mummy. She's going to come to work and tell us a little bit before she heads off on her coffee date. So now over to the show with Cushla Young and Isobel.

Well hi, everybody. Welcome to Pushing the Limits. Today I am doing something very unusual. And so hi everybody in YouTube land who's listening to this as well. I want to introduce my best friend, Cushla Young. Cushla, welcome to the show.

Cushla Young: Thank you.

Lisa: For starters. Now I'll give you guys a bit of background. Cushla and I have been friends for now, a decade or so. Cushla is the lady that helped me write this book. Without her it would not exist. It wouldn’t have come out before Cushla came along. The book is Relentless: How A Mother and Daughter Defied the Odds. It's my latest book, and Cushla is the magic behind that book. What we're going to be doing today is talking about what the book is about, which is the story of bringing my mum back from a mess of aneurysm, major brain damage at the age of 74, when it was against all the odds, when the medical professionals were telling me the brain damage is so bad that she's never going to recover.

Being an athlete I went, ‘No that's not happening, and we'll find a way.’ This is going to be all about that story. Now I'm going to hand over the reins to Krishna to actually interview me, but I've actually got a very, very special guest sitting here next to me, who is the actual star of the show. And so Cushla is going to, she's going to take off for a coffee date. So I'll have to let her come to work first. So I'm going to pass you over to my very special mummy. There she is, Isobel. And she's gonna talk to Cushla for a second so I'll just pass over the headphones.

Cushla: Hand over the reins.

Lisa: You’re on, Isobel.

Isobel: Okay.

Cushla: Hi Isobel, morning.

Isobel: Good morning, Cushla. How are you?

Cushla: Taking off for a coffee date soon, are you?

Isobel: Yes.

Cushla: So you are a guest of honor for a few minutes on this podcast. This is, I'm going to be a little bit different because I get to interview your daughter rather than her interview others today.

Isobel: That's good.

Cushla: So, but we'll start with you. So you have been on one heck of a journey over the last few years.

Isobel: I sure have.

Cushla: So how can we start with how you're feeling now?

Isobel: I'm feeling good.

Cushla: You're looking great.

Isobel: I can go for a coffee and I can go walking on my own. And I can do almost anything.

Cushla: When Isobel left my house after a lovely glass of wine the other day, you didn't have one, but Lisa did. You drove, didn’t you? You drove her home?

Isobel: I did. Yes. I can drive now. That's good. Especially if Lisa’s having a wine.

Cushla: You get to be a mum.

Isobel: I do, I get, revert back to being mum. Yeah.

Cushla: Yeah, and that must have given you a lot of independence that you have lost for quite a few years.

Isobel: Yes. It’s awesome. You don't realise how isolated people are. They haven't got— We all have a way of getting around here. It’s isolating. Yeah.

Cushla: And can you tell us a bit about what you have been getting up to? I understand you've been doing some art classes with your sister. How's that going?

Isobel: Not as well as I would like to but it's, we're doing all right, you know?

Cushla: Yeah.

Isobel: I'd like the results to be a bit more spectacular. But—

Cushla: It must be nice to be creative.

Isobel: Oh it is. It’s good, it does me good.

Cushla: Now, do you have much of a memory of the hospital time?

Isobel: No.

Cushla: No. What's your first memory that you can recall?

Isobel: Probably where we went to a meeting with all the big guns—

Lisa: At the hospital.

Isobel: At the hospital, and they wrote me off, really.

Cushla: Did they? They underestimated you as well.

Isobel: I can remember saying—

Lisa: I was feeling good. I was feeling good.

Isobel: I was, I was feeling fine before this. Now. I'm feeling terrible. I have been demoted, I've been, lost my independence. Just because they were talking like they were, they shouldn't have done that.

Lisa: They took away all your confidence. And—

Isobel: Yeah, they just.

Cushla: And so your background is similar to mine. You're an educator.

Isobel: Yeah.

Cushla: Have been for decades and decades. You must understand how demotivating it is when somebody tells you what you can't do rather than what you can do.

Isobel: Yeah, that’s it exactly.

Cushla: So when did it change for you after that meeting? What were some of the first things that happened that gave you a bit more confidence?

Lisa: Driving?

Isobel: Getting on a driver's license probably was a major breakthrough. Lisa took me down to the dam by the port and just—

Lisa: It’s been months.

Isobel: Happier—

Cushla: Round and round you.

Isobel: You will, ‘now you drive.’ I was totally gobsmacked.

Cushla: But you did it.

Isobel: I did it.

Cushla: And I understand the doctor was utterly shocked—

Isobel: He was.

Cushla: —when you went in to get your medical for your license.

Isobel: Totally blown away.

Cushla: Yeah.

Isobel: That was a blow away.

Cushla: It had probably been a while since the doctor had responded that way.

Isobel: Yeah, I think so. He was a nice doctor. So that was good.

Cushla: So could you give some advice to someone who might be going through something pretty tough at the moment. What would you say to them?

Isobel: Just hang in there and—

Lisa: Fight.

Isobel: Fight hard. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to grit your teeth and just carry on, really. Yeah.

Cushla: You're one tough lady, aren’t you?

Isobel: I must be.

Cushla: Definitely.

Isobel: So that's what we did.

Cushla: Can you describe some of the routines of things that you do at the moment that keep you in such good health?

Isobel: I go to the gym most days.

Lisa: Do weight training, cardio.

Isobel: I do weights, I do cardio, I do walking on the treadmill, yoga.

Cushla: And you still do your hyperbaric as well?

Isobel: Yes, every day at the moment.

Cushla: Everyday? Wonderful. Still eat the smoothies that Lisa makes you in the mornings?

Isobel: They’re pretty terrible.

Cushla: But they’re good for you, right?

Isobel: But they are good for me. Broccoli is not exciting, and it’s sickening.

Cushla: What we've noticed is, about over even the last six months, is how fit and agile and glowing that you are. That's amazing.

Isobel: It is amazing. It's amazing that you said that. I don't always feel it.

Cushla: Right.

Isobel: It's hard to know where you're at, so.

Cushla: Yeah, I think sometimes what you see is yourself reflected in others’ eyes, and that's a really good indication of how far you've come.

Isobel: Yeah, and I have come a long way.

Cushla: Really.

Isobel: Yeah, a really long way.

Lisa: A bloody long way. All right, now you can go get coffee.

Isobel: I’ll pass you back to Lisa—

Lisa: —and get yourself a coffee date.

Cushla: Enjoy!

Isobel: I will.

Lisa: Thanks, Mummy.

Isobel: Okay.

Lisa: She’s an absolute legend. Thanks, you have a nice coffee. We're now actually going to get into her backstory. Because, I would have done it the other way around and had her at the end of the show. But she needed to get to a coffee date. So she’s just rolling. Yeah, we're rolling with the punches.

But Cushla, this— can you, I'm gonna pass the reins over to you fully. Because you know the story, you lived it with me, you helped me from the get-go pretty much. So over to you. Oh now I’m an interviewee.

Cushla: Got you. We're flipping the tables, aren’t we?

Lisa: Yeah, we sure are.

Cushla: To be interviewed for once, which is fabulous. So this has been a long journey for you and your mum and your family, and you're right. I was, I had known you for a few years before this happened. I think from my perspective, the thing that was so shocking about what originally, with the aneurysm, with your mum, was just how quick things changed overnight. I think we see Isobel now and— how old is mum?

Lisa: She’s 79.

Cushla: 79. So we're going back quite a few years, and I used to often pop into the shop and see your mum, and just pop in and say hello. And she is now but she also was been a very intelligent, clear spoken woman that used to do acro-aerobics all the time, she was very fit and healthy, very independent, working still pretty much full-time.

Lisa: Yeah, she was.

Cushla: For somebody watching, to see overnight that she went from that, from a completely functioning full-time working adult, to just being, nothing was there. Overnight, the aneurysm took her from being completely functional to nothing. I think the shock in that first visit and I saw her quite a few weeks after the aneurysm, and you’re back up to New Plymouth. You'd been in Wellington. The shock of seeing her lying there, she had aged a decade overnight.

Lisa: Yeah.

Cushla: It’s hard. Hard to see. I think the shock of that must’ve ripped through your family quite viciously. You notice that change overnight.

Lisa: It was huge. Yeah, to have growing up with mum being always the one supporting me. And the one that was there for me in all the phases of my crazy, upside down life that I've had, you know, with all my adventures supporting me with all lower— dramas and relationship breakups and divorces and business growing.

Cushla: Rooting for you at most of your races.

Lisa: Oh, yes. Yeah. She’d seen, been there, done that with me, I can tell you that she had a hard life with me. She had a good life, she had exciting times with me. She was really the rock of my world. And then that turned upside down very much overnight. And, you know, you go from being this adult kid to a complete role reversal, where you're now you know, having to do everything for your mum, you are advocating, you're fighting, you grow up really quickly, even as a fully-grown adult. Obviously, I still am very much, when you've got a parent, you’re still like a kid in a way to them. That is that was a biggest shocker for me I think was to be, no, now you are the one that's caring for your mum, and you are going to have to pull out all the stops to help her and it’s you know, no longer about you being the selfish egotistical athlete, and there's nothing wrong with it, if you’re an athlete, you have to be if you want to reach, know, do the stuff that I did. But that was a shocker.

And then not, like the— we had medical research mishaps from the very get-go when mum had this aneurysm that happened early in the morning. And an ambulance driver came into the house, you know, they got her into the ambulance up to the hospital, he knew already that she was having a neurological event. And he told the doctor so much, and he just ignored it. He ignored it.

He said, ‘No, she's having a migraine, I think. So we'll just leave it for a few hours and observe her and give her some painkillers.’ Well, you know, ‘Thanks very much for that.’ The first six hours not knowing, and she was dying, basically. She was dying. And I knew she was in deep trouble. And I didn't know what to do. Because at that point in my life, I had no idea of anything like this. So I was never, you know, in a situation like this, I didn't know what was wrong with her. But I knew we were in trouble. And that was a very big wake up call. I actually got our mutual friend, Megan Stewart, who's a paramedic here and the head of the ambulance here. And she came up to the hospital at that time. She sort of rattled some bloody cages very quickly. And because she knew immediately what was happening, stroke or aneurysm or something neurological, migraines. She went and told this doctor what for. He then relented, and we got a CT scan. And that's when we saw the blood right throughout the brain. So that was a very big wake up call for me in a number of ways. Obviously, the shock of it happening to your mum, the fear of her dying, she's being very, very, very close to death at this point. And then realising that, you know, the medical system had not worked for us. And I'm not— you know, we're all human, and we all make mistakes and stuff. But that was a pretty big one. That was a pretty big one.

Cushla: I think, in those situations, we want to trust the people that are— the medical professionals that are around us. For the most part in ED, they're an amazing group of people. But I think also there is a lot to be said for your mum. You knew what a migraine looked like, you should have before. And it's a matter of trusting yourself, isn't it, enough to then think, this isn't to your question what you’re saying, and then fight as hard as you can for a different outcome. Because my understanding about aneurysm is there's a golden hour, or it's really important to be treated.

Lisa: Exactly.

Cushla: A short time.

Lisa: Surgery, that's the golden hour, they talk about getting you into surgery within the hour. It took 18 hours. 18 hours, because not only do we have the medical mishap and we also had the fact that we had to get to our Main Hospital down in Wellington, neurological. Living in a regional area, unfortunately, that's just the way it is. But we had to wait another 12 hours for the air ambulance to actually get to us, and when you're over 65, you’re sort of bumped down the hierarchy, especially if you— if they don't think you're a good, you got good odds. So, you know, we— there were, at that time we had a baby that needed help, and that was more urgent than mum. They have to make those calls. I understand. I don't like it; I understand it. It’s your loved one and you don't really give up.

Cushla: Not at the time because you're also going through the shock of what's happening and trying to process that. In that moment, can you describe, I suppose I want to focus a little bit on what was happening to you and your body. Because I think the thing about this really, this story is that it's not just about a mum surviving an aneurysm, but it's also about you and your family and how you've managed to pull yourself back together as well. So not just Isobel but yourself. I know that a lot of us, all of us will face a moment in our lives where we have to handle a bit of trauma.

Lisa: Yep.

Lisa: What was going on in your body and how did you cope so that you had the ability to fight for your mum? What are you doing in your mind?

Lisa: So in the initial phases, Cushla, you know, you are in shock, you're out, you're terrified. But very, very quickly, oh, especially after the mishap, once I realised what had just happened and the ball’s up that that was, and that it was likely going to cost your life. I just went into what I call mission mode. Like, ‘Okay, right, I am not going— I'm going to research the hell out of this. I'm going to learn everything I can. I'm going to be hypervigilant. I'm going to watch everything they do. I'm going to question everything they do. I'm going to get my family organised.’ Because I had get them down to Wellington. My father was, of course, falling to pieces because it’s the love of his life. He's been, you know, married to her for 55 years. He came up to me already in the ED and said, ‘We better start planning the funeral.’ Because they were, you know, saying to us, she's like, unlikely to survive. And I'm like, ‘Dad, we're not even considering that. She's alive, she's still breathing, and we're gonna fight with everything we have. Here's a list of jobs to do: I want you to go ring so and so, organise this, get the boys down, my brothers down to Wellington, blah, blah, blah.’

When people are in a crisis, you need to take control and give them jobs to do so that they, their, you know, their amygdala, that their permanent part of the brain doesn't go into complete full-blown panic, and which doesn't always work. And I'll relay a story a little bit later, where I did go into full blown panic. It's all very well and good to say this. But at that point in time, I was like, ‘Dad’, I shook him, I grabbed him, I held him and I said, ‘No, you've got this and this job to do, we're going to do it, and follow me, dad. Follow me.’ And that was basically how it was then for the next few years. Yeah. My brothers as well, they were very much, ‘What do we do?’ I had no idea at the time, but I pretended like I did. Fake it till you make it. What we're doing this is how we're going to operate over the next few weeks. So it was being down on Wellington together, organising the family to be down there, all the logistics that go along with that, and your jobs and your, you know, partners and all the rest of it. And then a 24-hour watch over Mum, and being hypervigilant, explaining to the boys everything that I was learning medically, because I was like, studying forever, I was just going, going, heart out, trying to understand and get up to speed on something that I was completely not aware of prior to this, learning what an aneurysm does, what vasospasms are, what I've been looking for, what they— signs.

We were only in the neurological unit, we weren’t in the ICU, which, looking back when I arrived, what the hell. When she got down to Wellington, they get straight into surgery, they started draining her blood off the brain. She started to— start to have that pressure released. But then we had to decide the next, in the next couple of days, though it had stopped bleeding at that point, but it was about to go out in time again, it could go at any moment. How do we clamp it? What do we do? Would we cut into her brain and put a physical clamp over the area? And it was a mess of aneurysm. Like we're talking a 16 millimeter huge aneurysm. We went up through the femoral artery, and we weighed up the pros and cons and you make that call. She's got a 50% chance of dying this way, she's got a 30% chance of dying that way, pretty much. So we'll take the lesser evil, but she was going to have to have two operations and in that way you know. So that was gonna be really touch and go, really touch and go. I remember them wheeling her off for that operation. I think it was on day two, through the doors, and you just don't know if it's the last time you're going to see them alive, and the whole just trying to hold your shit together.

Cushla: I know that you're very good at compartmentalising parts of the— of something when it happens. What I remember you talking about when we were writing the book, was how you were able to put the jobs that needed to be done in that box. The research you were doing in this box, your family in that box, and probably, and I know this because we had phone calls and I was in touch with you at the time, your emotions and your shock and your trauma in this box. It was a matter of kind of keeping you know, all those juggling balls in the air at one time. But also, and importantly allowing you to have that emotional spot as well. And I know that you were very good at compartmentalising and giving yourself time to do that, but not letting it overtake you, letting you drop all the other balls at the time when you were dealing with the emotional side of it. I think that's really important because I know— so when Lisa and I first met, I was a bit of a Lisa Tamati fangirl, before we became friends, and I got to know you really well.

Lisa: And then realised, oh no.

Cushla: Yeah. I mean, we just saw you as Wonder Woman. You know, there's tough, tough, you know, athlete. Then I got to know you, as a human being, of course, a woman, there’s a vulnerable side to you. But what I think is really important at that time, an immediate trauma time, as you gave yourself time to release a bit of that stress and that trauma by leaning on your husband Haisley, by your phone calls to me. But also, like, I know that you went for some runs, went to get gym, threshed it out, you probably screamed at the ocean at one point. Do you know? That's also important, isn't it? It's not just—

Lisa: If you want to sustain— we knew this was going to be a long, long, long battle. While we hoped it was going to be a long battle, a short option was not a good one. This is something that I've learned doing ultra marathons: is to— in particular in the Libyan desert crossing, where you have to read the book for the whole story. But I did an expedition across the Libyan desert with three other guys, one of them being this abusive boyfriend that I was with at the time. There was a very extreme situation that we were in, we needed two liters of water a day, etcetera. And I'm having this big domestic fight with the boyfriend right in the middle of the Libyan desert.

Cushla: In the most extreme environment on the planet.

Lisa: In the most extreme environment, walking 45 kilometers a day with 35-kilo backpacks and only two litres of water a day in a military bad zone, not a good time to breakup with a boyfriend of five years. And in that moment, when he left me and disappeared over the sand dunes, that was a turning point for me, and I fell apart initially. And I was like, ‘Oh, God,’ started crying in the rails. I can't afford to lose any more tears here. I've got to pull my shit together, because I cannot let the energy dissipate that at the rate of I want to actually survive. It was getting down to that sort of level of you know, you're going to survive this or not. And so I learned in that moment, really a very hard lesson in compartmentalising things in your brain. So like, ‘I'm going to fall apart, but not right now. I'm going to put that off right now because I have to focus on this, and getting through the desert and surviving.’ That's been actually a really good lesson. It's never a pleasant one to actually have to instigate where you have to actually compartmentalise.

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Lisa: But in this in this situation where you're dealing with— you're having to study like really hard. And we have access now to the greatest minds on the world that come in, all those information about out there that you can study. So I was studying all the drugs that they had on, all the procedures they were doing, what is the normal plan, and what happens when you have an aneurysm, what are of the some of the dangers, or of the things that I should be looking out for, what are the signs in your body. You know, all of these types of things in the initial phase and then later on at it went into rehabilitation research and study. And so that was one aspect of it. And then we had a 24-hour clock system, much to the disgust of the people at the hospital because they didn't want us there 24 hours. They don't like that. There was no way I was leaving my mother when she could die at any minute alone. No way.

So I had massive battles with the hospital, for them to be able to allow us in. And then having to fight for that. So you're fighting on all these fronts, you're already fighting with— your mum's in deep, deep trouble, and then you're fighting against these systems. And they may have some good reasons for those systems. But there was no way I was leaving my mother alone when she could die any second. A family member had to be with her at all times. And I was very, very strict on that. We had some big blow-ups at the hospital. We got through really in the end. And we tried to be as unobtrusive as possible when we did what we were. And we picked up things that they missed, because she was on a neurological ward, they only come around a couple of hours into obviously, patients. But going back to the whole compartmentalising things. I know how to manage my body really well, and how to pace myself really well from doing ultra marathons and stuff, and expeditions. And so I knew that we were going to be in the for the long haul, I knew sleep deprivation was going to be a problem, I knew that the family dynamics were going to be a problem, that there was going to be fighting because of the stress there was it we were under, and we were all living in one motel unit. And that mum was in deep crap, we had my father to look after who was just, you know.

Cushla: And he was down with you in the initial stage.

Lisa: He was here, he was; and he's very much, was a homebody. He didn't like to be out of his garden and sheep. So he was very, very stressed on that front, and of course his wife in such dire straits. He was, but he— so we managed to, had him to manage home because he started having heart problems. And so I had to eventually actually send my dad back home and actually lied to my dad that, ‘She's okay now, we've got her, Dad. She's all good.’ Because I think that we're gonna lose him. I was making those sorts of decisions and just running the ship. Like you said, I know the importance of, for me, especially exercise and fresh air for my mental well-being, that if I was going to sustain it, I had to have at least half an hour to an hour every day out from this whole thing, where I just go and do a workout.

Again, all the fear, the cortisol, the adrenaline that's running through my body flat stuck and try to manage it, and making sure that she was looked after, and that time. You know, you feel guilty and everything for leaving the hospital all. But you had to do that after a few days. You know, just a couple of days, I didn't, but after that. It was— it’s setting all these things in place. And we need to do that in our daily lives. We need to set up systems and processes and understand our own bodies and how our bodies work so that we can manage the stress levels and we can manage the movement that we need, the sunshine, and needs for sleep and recovery and all those aspects. And of course, in a situation like that, sleep deprivation was a massive, and there's not much you can do about that, you have to function at that level for as long as you have to.

Cushla: And I think a lot of people that are in stressful situations, whether or not it be something like what happened with your mum, or even at work or just in daily life, big stressful moments. A lot of people put the self-care to the side. And they just think, ‘Well, I'm not that— I don't have time for that,’ or, ‘I shouldn't have time for that.’ That's when the guilt that kicks in, and yet, it probably is one of the most important things to prioritise in terms of your day and compartmentalising your day through to handle stressful situations because it allows you to have the focus and the energy that you need and get back into the the stressful—

Lisa: Into the fight you're in. Yeah, absolutely. You need to be able to have that energy put back in. It might only be 10 minutes out in the bloody— you know, like when we, here's another situation which we'll probably get onto later with my dad. In his situation, in the hospital for 16 days, fighting for his life. It was sometimes 10 minutes in the waiting room doing press ups. That was all I could get before I went back into the battle zone if you like.

Cushla: Just to release that.

Lisa: Just to manage the cortisol. Reach, I call it discharge and recharge, and then reset. Come back into the moment. But yeah, it was a heck of a lot of lessons to be learned and then leading in a crisis situation. My brothers were amazing. They were very supportive, and they were, followed everything that I asked them to do, basically. Because I'm the study-er of the family, I'm the one that is into research and science and studies. They trusted me to do that thing. And they were like, ‘Well, you tell us what to do, we'll do it.’ And that's really great. Because you've got your roles. That is, in having somebody lead the charge, so to speak, even though you don't know what you're doing, where you're going, and there’s certainly no rehabilitation over the next years, because this process took years, having that person that's got that responsibility, got that, ‘This is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it, I just need you guys to do this bit and the other thing.’ And my whole entire family were willing to do that. They were— my dad was just, jumping ahead in time, my dad was just amazing, how he stepped up to the mark. When he had a wife that had done everything for him pretty much.

Cushla: He was, back when she came back to New Plymouth, he was cooking, and—

Lisa: He was doing all the things.

Cushla: He was doing all the things, yeah.

Lisa: It was a shocker for him, but he stepped up to the mark to the best of his ability. He was the most wonderful, caring husband. He didn't give a— he didn't care that she— when she came back home for the first time, and we actually got her out of the hospital after three months. Now, I'm jumping ahead in time. But he didn't care that she had no function, basically. She was in a vegetative state who had a heartbeat. She was alive, and we were fighting. That was all he needed to know. He had his wife at home, she was alive, she's stabilised, we were fighting together, and we were on a mission. Every day he had his jobs to do and the things to do. He was just relentless in his love for her, stepping up.

Cushla: So going back to the moment where— so she's in Wellington, and you need to read the book to find out what went on in Wellington. The moment that she was transferred back to New Plymouth was a bittersweet moment, wasn't it? You were able to come home and be with Haisley and be back at home with the family and friends around that were helping. But you knew that the care that you would receive back in New Plymouth wasn't at the level that it would be in Wellington, basically just because Wellington is way more resourced. And fair enough, you can have a very small region. Taranaki here, you know, we're a little provincial spot in New Zealand. So we knew that we wouldn't get the care that you got in the big city. So talk us through how it was like to come home—

Lisa: It was terrifying. I was happy for all those reasons, but at the same time, and I was happy that she's apparently stabilised. But she was in ICU for the good part of the two of the three weeks that she was in Wellington when she was in and out of coma. Once she'd gotten out of the coma, then they had to get the stent out of her heart, and she kept dropping. What happens when you take the stent out is that pressure can start rising in the brain again, and three times as they tried to take the stent out, the pressure went up. On the third time, they said, ‘Well, if it doesn't work, this time, I'm going to have to operate and put in a permanent one.’ And the third time, it worked. But it only worked for the next 24 hours, and then they were like, ‘Right, she's not— her pressure’s not going up. She’s keeping consciousness, she's not falling back into the coma. She's good to go.’ And I had researched, I knew that that was not the case, that she couldn't have— that pressure could go up over the next 70 days at any point, and if that pressure went up, it would happen very quickly, and she wouldn't— she could die.

So I knew that even though they weren't telling me that, she could still die in the next 70 days. If that happened in Wellington and the pressure started to go up, they were— they might be able to recognise that, they might be to go in and do something. They wouldn't be able to in New Plymouth. I was hypervigilant on trying to understand how I could notice if something in her consciousness was going down, right. All I could do was to understand some of the symptomatic things that she did which might exhibit if her pressure is starting to go up, because you wouldn't be able to communicate it to me, you wouldn't be able to see it, you would slowly lose more and more of a brain till it was gone basically. So that was a huge fear bringing her home, and of course putting her in an airplane with a pressure change. Yeah, I didn't know what it would do. In fact, it was nothing, but there wasn't a problem, really. But you know it this time you just—

Cushla: You don't know.

Lisa: Yeah, so for the next 70 days, I'm like, hypervigilant. If I noticed something down on, I’ll be like, ‘I think she's doing this and doing that.’ Then they took her off the oxygen at the same time, and that was a big problem. They didn't see it as a problem that she was, ‘Her oxygen states are alright.’ What they were forgetting was that she was sleeping 18, 20 hours a day. So when she was asleep, she wasn't breathing properly, and I believe she had sleep apnea. So I said to them, ‘I want a sleep apnea assessment.’ They said, ‘No, she doesn't need that, why should she need that? Her oxygen stats are okay when she's awake, so why would she?’ I knew about sleep apnea. So I got a friend of ours, he's actually a sleep apnea consultant, Jez Morris. I said, ‘Come into the hospital illegally, would you do that?’ He said, ‘Yeah, I'll do that.’ Well outside of rules actually, so not illegally, but you know.

We sneaked into the hospital at nighttime, put on these machines onto her, did an assessment overnight, because it had to be an overnight thing. We got the results, and when it came back, severe sleep apnea. Now, this is absolutely key. Like her oxygen levels were down at 70% SPO2. she was Cheyne-Stokes breathing, which is not a good thing. Probably going to be on your way out in the next couple of months. Her oxygen was so low that she was knocking off any brain cells that she has, the infections that are in her body were just going apeshit. So bacteria was exploding, and they're already known. That was actually the one of the signs that I picked up because I had done a lot of racing at altitude, and I was seeing a lot of the signs in her that I had at altitude when I had altitude sickness and things like that.

That was at first wind, because I had to convince the bloody staff that we needed to have the CPAP machine on here, and they weren't trained in CPAP machine, so they didn't want to do that. I'm telling what she needs, she's got this and you know, him being a sleep physiologist was able to convince them that okay, this is a good thing for her now. He said he'd been banging his head against the brick wall for decades, trying to get for stroke patients an assessment that is part of the process. Because very often, this happens that that part of the brain is damaged in the stroke or the aneurysm, and even in things like concussions, that you can have a change in your breathing situation. And that part of the brain that monitors that is not working properly. So it should be staying apart and perfect, and that's what I believe, and that's what he believes.

So anyway, we got the CPAP machine. Initially started to have little bits of improvement, but we're already two months, three months, two and a half months or something into her time in the hospital and we're running out of time. But she's stable, nothing we can do with her, basically. She's pretty bad, and we've given paid lip service to some physio and some speech therapy and stuff, and now it's time to get you out of the system.

Cushla: And I think at that point, I think they, if you saw Isobel at that moment in the hospital, you would see an old woman who was probably on her way out. You didn't see the vibrant person that we saw before the aneurysm, that was so independent, and so highly functioning. For the hospital, I think they just saw an older woman—

Lisa: Another older woman.

Cushla: —another older woman, and a family that wasn't willing to accept the fact that they had an ageing mother. So there's that little bit of not understanding who she was before, and how abrupt this change was. We knew that if we could just get her back, even if it was a little bit back, then you could take her home and start working on rehab. Can you talk about how quickly they just wanted to move her into a home?

Lisa: Oh yeah. And this is what happens very often when you're over 65 is the answer is get them out of our budget into someone else's budget. That means putting them into a hospital-level care facility. If you've got anything, that's the normal route that you go, and they will try and convince you of that route, at least in our situation. I can't speak for everybody obviously. We came up against a brick wall of this, especially the social worker who shall remain nameless, who just was totally against us being able to have the caregiver that I wanted, the caregiver for in the morning for an hour, and one in the evening for an hour, which is part of, they do provide the service and so on. But it costs more money, and you stay in the budget. That's the key point.

We were fighting over these resources. What I want people to understand is you have to fight for the resources that you want for your loved one. And we have limited resources, it's a fact of life. If you want to get some of those resources, and you think your loved one is worthwhile, worth it, because they’ve spent their entire lives paying taxes, being good citizens and have a right to have some of this, then you better be prepared for a fight because that's what you're in for. And we did have the fight.

Cushla: And it was interesting that, because as a family, you were willing to bring her home and you're willing to do a lot of the care yourself. You didn't want to be taking up a resource in a care facility. You were prepared to do that yourselves, as a family, at home. So in a sense, there's a lot of money to be saved. Because I know how much you have given up and how much it costs the family to care for her at home. But that is what you wanted, and your family wanted was to just, to have her home. I remember in the book, you spoke about wanting Isobel to hear familiar sights, smells, sounds around her to aid her in her rehab. And that in having those, you felt that she was going to make more connections, neurological connections, because she was in her own home, with her own people around her, with her own sights and sounds and smells around her. Can you talk a little bit about how positive you felt that was?

Lisa: Yeah, that's a huge piece of the puzzle. I had a friend's mum who actually worked in stroke rehabilitation. She really encouraged me to do that and said how important this was, and it just made total sense to me. I knew that when you're in the care of any facility, no matter how good they are, they can never provide the love and the attention that you can. Because they've got other people and you're just another patient and in— they provide a magnificent service and so on when this is absolutely necessary. But in this case, we had the willingness and the ability to do this. They said to me, the social worker said to me, ‘There is no way in hell you are going to cope with her. She's 24/7 around the clock care, two people at all times, there is no way you're going to cope with her.’ I actually came and threw my books on his table one night, across the table at him. And I said, ‘Read these. This is who I am and my family are, and we are not giving up without a fight. We may go down fighting, but we're going to go down fighting, we're not going to go down and take the easy route out. It is not in our nature.’

It's a fundamental difference between a family that’s a fighting family and a family that isn't. It's very much influenced by the people in power in these situations, the medical professionals, the people that are associated with all of it. And you have no confidence to stand up against all these professionals, usually. They're the ones that have been to medical school, they're the ones that have been to whatever, social work. Whatever the case may be, and you have a tendency to think, ‘Well, they know better than me.’ But one thing they don't know is you. And they don't know how strong you are. They don't know the resources that you have. They don't know your mentality. And they don't know, really, they're all guessing as to what will actually happen based on their experiences. But that's what becomes partly a self-fulfilling prophecy. So when they say to you that there is no hope. No, that's their opinion that there's no hope.

I had time and time again, people telling me, ‘There is no hope, there is no hope, she's 74, her brain damage is so massive, it cannot be that she would ever.’ I was like, ‘We’ll see.’ I'm only ever going to listen to the ones that tell me I can do, not the ones that I tell me I can't do. They may be right. I'm not saying they're not right, but I'm gonna throw the book at this. I'm gonna do whatever it takes. And it's all about attitude and effort and grinding it out then I'll take that one any day, I'll take that option. I'm a fighter. I'm a worker. And my family is too, and we're not going to go down without a fight. I've seen lots of— I saw lots of other families going through the same process, because this thing's happening every day in every hospital around the world, right? It is very much, ‘Well, statistically, this person's not a good bet. Therefore we'll just go through the standard of care, we’ll be the— do the humane thing, we'll do all this— tick all the boxes or do it all right.’ But the anomaly cases, the cases like mum’s, why is nobody coming to say to me, why do I get— no, I'm out there telling everybody that story. That’s why I've written the book is to empower other people in these types of situations, even different ones. But why is nobody asking me, ‘Well, what did you do?’

Cushla: What did you do to get there?

Lisa: They’ve been— I’ll let you know, when they mum here today, talking and walking and going off for coffee and driving up to see her friends, you would have no idea that she ever had anything.

Cushla: No.

Lisa: She’s just completely normal again. But I was told that was an impossibility. How many people are told, you have a terminal illness, you are going to die of this thing? When you plant this sort of stuff, they're making educated guesses based on the statistics of the past whatever and their experiences, and I get that. We can't give people false hope, but we've also can't take away all hope.

Cushla: No. That's a really powerful message, I think. I was talking to a friend of mine who is battling with cancer at the moment. She has the most amazing mindset, her mindset. So she's— you know, she was told she had three months to live, that was, I think, six months ago. Her mindset— and she's just been through some chemo and the tumors have shrunk. Her mindset, basically, is that cancer is not welcome back. It's just not. I'm going off to live my life. If I die of it, well, okay, I die of it. But in the meantime, I'm living my life, and I'm— it's not welcome back. She is charging in life and sure, she has her rough days. I really love how you said, it's— there's a responsibility for them not to give false hope, but at the same time not to take away. similar situation with my father, he has myeloma, so cancer of the blood. I think at the time, the doctors said, ‘After this treatment, you have between five and fifteen.’ He immediately said, ‘I'll take the 15, thanks.’

Because it puts them at that, at the point that it would have taken them to 85, and he was quite happy with it, because at the time he was 69. I love that. And we're six years down now. And I think mindset is huge—

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Cushla: —in the way that you approach things. Because, sure, we might, I might die by being run over by a bus today. But if you don't live life thinking that things are going to get better, that you have the power to do, to have control over your health and your well-being, the way that you deal with these traumas, if you don't have that mindset—

Lisa: You're definitely not going to—

Cushla: — you're definitely not, you're going to roll up in a corner. As my friend with cancer said when she went to hospital, she's like, ‘Oh, I'm surrounded by all these sick people.’ Which I loved. Because she didn't see herself in that.

Lisa: That’s one of the reasons I take mum to the gym every day.

Cushla: Exactly.

Lisa: I don't take her, I didn't take her, we did go to the physio program at the hospital. Don't get me started on that. But it was dreadful, it was shocking. The story’s in the book, if you want to read that one, that is a real battle. But they— I like her to be surrounded by athletes going for it. Because that rubs off on her. She's not a patient, she's an athlete. She's training for her Olympics. That is the attitude we take every single day. And I make no concessions that she is 79 years old, and, ‘Oh, isn't it time for her to relax?’ No, it isn’t time for her to relax. It's time for her to work harder. It's time to go harder and the older you get, the more effort you have to put into, if you want to stay alive. That is the key.

When you stop wanting to be alive, then yes, sit on the couch and do nothing. Because it's what that will lead to. If you still want to be alive and enjoy life, then you have to fight for it. This goes whether you’re bloody 10 years old, or 95 years old, or 105 years old. If you give into the easy way, if you go, ‘I don't feel like training today.’ I don't feel like training most days. But most days I train. Because it keeps me healthy, fit, and I'm being prevented. That's what I'm all about now is being in the prevention space, and then helping people who are in dire need navigate the waters of into connecting people to the right doctors in the right studies and the right information and the right books and all of that sort of jazz.

Cushla: When I was in the depths of my training for a marathon, I remember that exact conversation with a friend. She said, ‘I can't—’ You kno at the end of the day, I go for a run. And she's like, ‘You've just worked a full day.’ And I'm like, ‘Yeah, And I'm tired. But I'm going to go do it because you never regret it when you finish it.’ At the end of that 10k, you've never thought, ‘I really shouldn't have gone for that run.’ You don't. You come back thinking, ‘That was awesome.’ Sure you're tired, but you were tired before you went out for the run. So you actually end up more energised.

Lisa: You mean that will energise your cortisol in—

Cushla: My muscles might be tired, but you’re energised.

Lisa: And you’re getting stronger.

Cushla: Yeah, I think that's a really good message, that you don't regret it once you get out. It's always just those first, first few five minutes, or I always say the first 4k of any round was always more difficult than the rest.

Lisa: 20 minutes is all it is.

Cushla: Yeah, it is. It’s always shit.

Lisa: So same for me. And if I warm up properly, then it's only shit. If I'm in a hurry, and I run out the door, and I don't, then it's gonna be more shit, warm up quickly.

Cushla: The more experience you have with training, or with whatever it is that you're doing for self-care, understanding that the first little bit is always tough. And the more that you experience it, the more you know to expect it, then you know that you're going to get the buzz at the end and you start looking forward to that.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, I had that conversation with my brother yesterday, because I've been telling him, he's very funny. He does a lot. He's amazing, boaties, he does weight training. He's a surfer, and he surfs sometimes six hours a day, but he doesn't do cardio. And, you know, I monitor his blood, and his health and his everything. ‘You've got to do some cardio, we've got some issues here, we need some cardio please.’ And he's like, ‘I hate cardio, I don’t want to do cardio.’ And then we’ll do five minutes, and he’s like, ‘I don't want any—’ and I said, ‘It's about pushing through that barrier. It's the same as if you tell me, why aren't you going surfing anymore? And I'm like, “Oh, because it's so hard, and I don't want to get hit by the waves and get smashed around.’ And he's like, ‘what are you talking about? It's awesome.”’ As long as you go through that barrier. Pushed enough, long enough to get through that, and I'm having to go through that.

It's always that initial adaptation phase, that time when you're not fitting, you're not good at the surfing or the running, or the whenever, when it's shit. Let's be honest. But if you hang in there long enough, if you stay with the tension long enough, then you'll start to make the adaptations, and then you start to actually like it, and then you start to enjoy it, and then it will become like, ‘Wow, I’m actually into this.’ And you still have the days we don't want to do it. And those are the days when you have to just take action, a small piece of action, and put my running shoes on or I'll go to the letterbox and I'll see, or I'll just do 20 squats and then 10 press ups, and then I'll just stop there. Then you do those, and then you're like, ‘Oh, now I've got a couple more minutes.’ And then, you know, the next minute you've run for an hour or something.

Cushla: And, really, this is such a good title for the book. Because it's not, it's not just about your mum's story. It's about the process of taking those small actions and how those small actions all build up and all add together to make a big amazing solution. What I probably— again, going back to the fangirl in me, this isn't a story about Lisa Wonder Woman who can do everything, because she can't. She has vulnerabilities, and she has rough days and she has days where friends need to pick her up.

Lisa: Definitely.

Cushla: But what you've done with your mum, and what you can learn by reading the book is how those small actions actually build up and accumulate. That is relentless. That's what it means to be relentless. It doesn't mean that we should all run a marathon or an ultra marathon, or that's the journey that most people should take. That's not what we are saying here, but it's about how, if you have some self-care and take those small steps, whatever that may look like for you at the time of your life, that you are living a life that is relentless.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Cushla: Be way more powerful, more fulfilling, and you’ll last longer.

Lisa: You’ll last longer! We all want that. And you last longer helps me, you know, rather than yeah, it's all about for me, it's about healthspan as well. You don't want to be living in a horrific state of affairs and barely alive, but still kicking, that's not living. It's— we want to push that degeneration out for as long as possible. And the exciting thing, what I'm excited about, because I study this type of stuff obsessively, is the stuff that's coming down the pipeline with regards to longevity and anti-ageing.

I'm like, ‘Mum, if I can keep you alive for another 10 years, the technology is gonna keep you alive for a lot longer.’ That the advances in medicine, the advances in science are going to mean that you can possibly live for a hell of a lot longer. If I can hold my, you know, 52 year old body together, now, by the time I get to my 60s here, I'm going to be things that are probably going to mean that we're going to live to, they're talking 150 and beyond. Whether I'll see that or not, but my children might, or our little ones, and this next generation might, and we may. Who knows? Because things are changing so rapidly. And there's one having each and the latest and greatest stuff. I love shiny objects. I’m doing the research and in staying across all that and maintaining so that I can actually get to hopefully enjoy the benefits of it and not have something major happen out of the blue. Because most of these things that come at us, the big four, the cancer, the cardiovascular diseases and strokes, and the diabetes, and the Alzheimer's, if you take just those, they are predictable a long way out.

If I had known more about things then mum’s aneurysm was bloody written on the couch. Her dad died at 52. Now I've done our genetics and we have, I have a very poor lining of our blood vessels. They're like glycocalyx is very, very poor quality, which means we're more prone to strokes and aneurysms and stuff. So now I know that, okay, so now I can do something preventative about it. I didn't know that when mum went down, she was always struggling with her weight and always, always having problems with that. Now we've cracked that code. She's tiny now, she's very slowly, and she’s lost 35 kilos, and we've cracked the code on it. But hey, it's taken me bloody years to work that out with for here and now. But we have that science now. We have that epigenetics and all the genetic tests, and we have all that available to us, you know? And yes, it all costs, and people go, ‘I couldn't afford this.’

Cushla: Can you afford not to?

Lisa: Yes, can you afford not to? Yes, this stuff costs money, all this stuff costs money. To keep mum going, costs me over a couple of grand a month. But I would— instead of having a fancy car—

Cushla: Yeah?

Lisa: — I got a fancy mum.

Cushla: Love it.

Lisa: You know, it’s just, if you don't have anything within your—

Cushla: Yeah.

Lisa: —you can do the stuff that makes, you can get for free, which is exercise, which is not eating bad shit, and eating right and things. But if you have got a little bit of resources, where are you putting it? Are you doing it, for me superfluous things like, I don't go and have facials and massages. Well, massages will be actually healthy, so I probably shouldn't lump that in with it. But, you know.

Cushla: You don’t have fancy shoes.

Lisa: No, I don't have fancy clothes. I wear the same thing all the time. You know, but I spend it on stuff that might keep us alive longer.

Cushla: When I was going through some rough health over a year ago, I talked with Lisa and we booked in a whole raft of tests. I think it was probably just over $1,000 to get a really good picture of where things are. Sure that's a lot of money. But the fact was, my health was bad enough that I wasn't coping. I wasn't getting more excited for work. So you know, for me to be able to earn an income, for me to be able to be a functioning adult, you know, that can walk me through the world, I had to invest in it. I think that sometimes we can feel guilty of investing in those kinds of things, especially if you're a mum, or if you have other commitments. But the fact is that if you need to be around for your kids, or in my case for my class, I'm a teacher. Yeah, I need to be there, 100%. I need to be at 100%. And so they're there.

Lisa: Yeah, so it's chicken and egg scenario. You lose your job if you’re not healthy.

Cushla: Exactly.

Lisa: If you lose your job, then you're not going to be able to stay healthy. So it's a chicken and egg scenario, and I'd rather invest in those things and prioritise those things.

Cushla: Before they become something major.

Lisa: And then, you can't see everything coming. I've been— I mean, you know, the journey that I've been on with my dad, and he unfortunately passed away in July last year, after one hell of a battle. Now, I didn't see that one coming. He was, I had him, but he— Dad did one thing that I could never stop him doing, and that was smoking. And that's what basically got him in the end. That's addiction, and I was, I'm just sad about that. But you can't— and I spend a lot of time studying. I study hours every day so that I'm not caught short. And since losing Dad, even moreso. But I realised I can't know everything, and they will be curveballs that come at me anyway. But I can be as prepared as I can be, and then I can react to the situations the best I can, you know. And I can hit, I at least know where to go to get help. I know where to go if I have something. If I have something tomorrow, I'll probably find out who the heck to talk to very quickly.

Cushla: Exactly.

Lisa: To deal with it. And that's a good resource to have.

Cushla: So in that Relentless, in our book, at the back is a bunch of resources. We've listed them out. So— and Lisa said something really funny to me the other day, she got some feedback from a bloke that read the book. He said, ‘I normally would have never read a book with the two chicks on the cover.’ It was hilarious. But, and then he said, ‘But it was a rocking good book.’ He didn't— he said it was a really good book. He read it through and also provided him so much information in here. And I thought it was interesting because we— the process, of course of getting the book published and the cover, and everything was quite a major wasn't it?

Lisa: And we obviously made a mistake.

Cushla: Made, and in some things fixed. But I thought it was worth pointing out that it's not just a story about your mum, but it is a bunch of lessons and resources that you can apply to in any situation that involves either health or stress. Big—

Lisa: Big mindset.

Cushla: Big moments that require that positive mindset and real strategies in there about what it takes to survive trauma and in stressful situations that can apply to health or work or relationships, or all sorts. So I just thought, you know, I kind of do that little promotional push. When we need to do book launches, you’re all booked to the map, hadn’t we? We would join them. And then—

Lisa: The day after.

Cushla: The day after. We managed to, week one in our hometown, which was also a book launch, which was fantastic. But unfortunately, we couldn't do the big push. So as your co-author, because I know Lisa touts this book any chance she can, but as the co-author of it. I'd like to recommend that everyone does get a copy. Read the heck of it, and really gains from, really can get some benefit from reading the resources and the steps and the strategies that are in there. Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. Thanks, Cush. Yeah, it's not a book just for ladies, it's not a book just for runners. It's not a book just for people with brain injuries. It's for all of the above class. It is the people who are taking on massive challenges and who are up against it. It's for people who want to understand what it takes to succeed, want to understand what it takes to take on massive challenges and have a chance at actually coming out the other end. It is a coaching book, basically. It is written in a story form, but there is a lot of learnings in there. And there's also a lot about a lot of the therapies and the doctors and the podcasts and the books and the resources that I used in order to rehabilitate my mum.

And this is the whole point of the podcast now that we've been doing Pushing the Limits for five and a half years. I actually started it before mum had her aneurysm, but it became one of the greatest resources for me personally, because I got to get the world's greatest scientists and doctors and their latest research, and to share that with everybody. And whether it was around health and fitness and running or mindset, or high performance or longevity or anti ageing or any of those things, it was all relevant. For me, it was partly a selfish endeavor, because it did help me in that whole process. We're very passionate about the show, and we'd love that anybody who isn't already subscribed to Pushing the Limits, or as a podcast, to make sure that you head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen, and subscribe to the show, because we really get world-leading experts up on here, every single week. It's pretty, pretty fantastic. And a great resource.

Of course, it'd be marvelous today, as always. And we're working on another book. We haven’t started working. We haven't started yet. We've discussed next year. Yeah, yeah. So she's a very brave woman, because back with me on this book.

Cushla: Look, the journey has been an absolute privilege to be a part of this book, and also to be a part of your life. It's interesting, I've never written a book before. So I just like to put that out there, that sometimes you have to do brave and scary things, just to see what you're capable of. What we really hope with this is that people get a lot out of it. It's a great read, there's some comedy in there. As well good moments, as well as the hard stuff. And I think that's what I've learned is, being part of this journey is, you know, life's about putting yourself out there, do the things that are scary, that you've always potentially had in the back of your mind you wanted to do.

Lisa: Absolutely. And you know, you with the Masters in English, that was a good place to start.

Cushla: I’m afraid that—

Lisa: It's fabulous and has now made the emphasis for you to write your own novel, which is fantastic. So that's what happens when you step outside your comfort zone. You're very much good at pushing, push further outside your comfort zone.

Cushla: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Lots of beaches along the way. Yeah, I haven't told you yet. So it's—

Cushla: Not yet.

Lisa: I am being good. Cushla, thank you so much for your time today in being the interviewer, in being an author on this marvelous book, and we hope it's going to empower and help lots and lots of people along the way.

Cushla: Definitely.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Contrary to popular belief, optimum nutrition is not one-size-fits-all. What works for others may not work for you. Our body type is dictated by genes that we cannot change. What we can do is tailor our exercise and diet so that our genes respond and are expressed the way they are supposed to.

This week, Neil joins me to explain how to personalise your optimum nutrition and exercise. Throughout the episode, we emphasise the importance of knowing your body type in building the right diet and exercise for your specific set of genes.

If you want to achieve optimum nutrition and health according to your genes, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching. You can also join our free live webinar on runners' warm-up to learn how a structured and specific warm-up can make a massive difference in how you run.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Know the three general body types. 2. Get Neil’s recommendations for each body type to get optimum nutrition. 3. Discover the role of genes in shaping our biology.

Resources * Email lisa@lisatamati.com to know more about my health optimisation consulting.

  • The Search for the Perfect Protein by Dr David Minkoff

Episode Highlights [04:17] Genes and Body Types * All body types are unique. * Genes are the blueprint of the body. Everything that happens in the environment affects your genes. * The exercise and food we give our bodies dictate how our genes express themselves. * Our bodies can significantly change if we do the wrong exercise or give it below optimum nutrition. We may end up with an unhealthy body.

[09:15] The 3 Major Body Types * The formation of body types starts at embryogenesis. It depends on which layer (ectoderm, mesoderm, or endoderm) is provided with more energy. * Different bodies will respond to exercise in different ways. * Ectomorphs are taller, slimmer, and leaner with a low percentage of body fat. * Mesomorphs are shorter and have the classic triangle shape (broad shoulders and narrow waists). * Endomorphs are great at putting on fats and muscles. They have bigger bones and evenly shaped lower and upper bodies.

[14:46] Nutrition and Exercise for Mesomorphs * Mesomorphs are agile and quick responders. As a result, they are coordinated and athletic. * Activities that work well for this body type include 20- to 40-minute CrossFit-style exercise, intensity interval training and short bursts of high-intensity activity. * Make sure to have enough rest to avoid injuries and health burnout. * Have three full meals a day, with regular snacks. Get your protein up for recovery.

[24:32] Nutrition and Exercise for Endomorphs * Endomorphs are good at endurance and strength. * Get heavier weights and lower repetitions. * Start slow and exercise optimally late in the day. Also, take longer warm-ups. * Take later breakfast and lunch, with lunch as the biggest meal of the day. * Increase your vegetable intake.

[31:22] Fasting for Different Body Types * Women have to be a little careful with more prolonged fasting because of their cycle. * Fasting should be shorter for ectomorphs and mesomorphs. For ectomorphs, 12 hours intermittent fast is good. * Endomorphs can last up to 16 hours or longer. They take two to three meals per day.

[33:05] Nutrition and Exercise for Ectomorphs * Ectomorphs have a more developed nervous system and are suitable for speed endurance. * Cycling and swimming help calm their body. * Because they have stiffer and more rigid body tissue, speed, endurance and flexibility work should be balanced. * You can put a heavier load with higher repetitions — for instance, 12 to 20 reps. Do this at 7 in the morning and in the afternoon.

7 Powerful Quotes from This EpisodeWe’re all born with around 23,000 genes; we’re all born with a blueprint. That’s a blueprint of our genes, and those genes were given when born. But what we can do now in a way our body responds with the exercise and food we give it will dictate how our genes express themselves’.

Here's my genes. Here's how I can optimise them, and how I can also be aware of perhaps some of the weaknesses that I might have and how I can make the best out of my body, and out of my mind, and out of my sporting performance and out of my health’.

If you look around — look at your family, your friends, those around you — you'll see that we are all different shapes. And we should be different shapes. It's okay to be different shapes’.

You can still be a long-distance runner, but it becomes more important, then, that you rest harder’.

You can get gains without pain’.

It's okay to be me, in all aspects’.

There are advantages and there are disadvantages to every body type. The thing to take away is let's work with our advantages’.

Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can personalise their diets and exercise based on their body type.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Introduction: Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week. Coming up, I have a very good interview with Neil Wagstaff, who has been on the show regularly, my business partner at Running Hot Coaching. And today we are getting into personalized nutrition and personalized exercise. So, understanding how to build the right exercise and diet plan for your specific set of genes. So, this is related a little bit to a couple of episodes that we've done prior, but it's focusing in on the nutrition aspects, and on the exercise aspect. So I hope you really enjoy the session.

Now Christmas is coming up. So if you haven't got your Christmas presents ready yet, you might want to grab one of my books. We've got three Running Hot and my first one, Running To Extremes, both of those chronicling my adventures all around the planet. Lots of successes and failures, and lots of laughing, lots of fun we have at those books. And my recent book, Relentless—how a mother and daughter defied the odds, which is really a book about empowering you to overcome obstacles, think outside the square, take control of your own health. And it's a love story between a mother and a daughter and family. So I hope you grab one of those for your Christmas present this year. You can get them over on lisatamati.com, under the shop banner.

And before we go over to Neil, I just want to remind you, we are taking on a small—very small number—of clients on one-on-one sessions. If you have a health problem—I just was getting asked all the time, ‘Can you please help me with this or that problem’? And so we've actually opened up a number of places, we're only dealing with 10 people at a time on their health journeys.

If you've got a complicated health journey that you want to help with, or you want high performance, or you've got some big massive goal that you have, and you need some support around your mindset, or brain injuries, or a cancer journey, or stroke, or whatever the case may be, then please reach out to us, support at lisatamati.com and tell us what you're looking for. And we can see whether we'll be able to help you. We're enjoying working with a number of people and getting some fantastic results. So, let us know if you want to do that.

Please also give a rating and review to the show if you haven't. It really, really helps the show. And I can't emphasize enough how appreciated that is when I get a rating or a review from a listener, it really makes my day. I love hearing from listeners because you don’t—you're always talking into a microphone, you don't actually get a lot of feedback. So, we do appreciate you telling us what you think. And if there's guest recommendations or if there's things that you want us to talk about then maybe we can add to the list, then please let us know. Okay? Reach out to us. And yes, right, over to the show now. We'll be enjoying this conversation with Neil Wagstaff, all around personalized diet and exercise.

Welcome back, everybody. Fantastic to have you with us again. Today, I have Neil Wagstaff in Havelock North, my business partner at Running Hot Coach, my long-time coach, and exercise scientist, brilliant man, welcome to the show again, Neil. Fantastic to have you back again.

Neil Wagstaff: Thanks, Lisa. Nice introduction. I like that.

Lisa: Yes, well, got to [00:03:40 unintelligible] you up a little bit. (laughs)

Neil: Very nicely. Very nicely.

Lisa: All very well entertained, by the way people.

So today's subject and I love having these conversations with Neil because we love to learn together, develop our philosophies together, train together. Yes, it's all fantastic. So today we're going to be looking at exercise and nutrition, and how to personalize it to you, so that you are doing the right diet and the right types of exercise for your particular body.

So, Neil, where do you want to start with this? Do you want to start with the body types and that type of thing?

Neil: If we give people a little bit of an overview of just the phenotype, what we're going to be looking at and then we can go into some of the body types in there. So just everyone should appreciate and understand, Lisa, they're all unique. And it's okay to be different. It's okay to be themselves. And gone are the days of the one-size-fits-all program for the exercise and nutrition point of view. And your exercise and nutrition should be personalized to you.

Now as we look at that and sort through, it is good to look at it through the lens of—which is where we're going to be looking at it—through the lens of epigenetics. So, as you know, we’re all born with around 23,000 genes, we’re all born with our blueprint. That’s our blueprint of our genes, and those genes are what we’re given when born. But what we can do now and where our body responds with the exercise and food we give it will dictate how our genes express themselves.

So, if we're giving ourselves the wrong type of exercise, or the wrong type of nutrition, or doing it at the wrong times of day, or a different time of day, then our genes can respond in a different way. And what we get as a result that is a phenotype, with you and I looking at each other with how we look. Our phenotype can look some differently different, it can be affected from a health point of view, if we've got the exercise, wrong time of day, wrong dosage, and the wrong intensity. And the same from nutrition point of view—wrong foods, wrong time of day, and the wrong amount. And all of a sudden, our phenotype can change quite significantly. And we can end up with a body that is not in a good state from a health point of view.

Lisa: Yes, and this is where the one-size-fits-all approach of the fitness industry—up until recently, at least—has put certain body types in down the wrong direction. And you use a couple of terms there, I just want to clarify, and people would have heard on a couple of our earlier podcasts, if they have listened to a number of them. We're really big on understanding your genes and understanding how to optimize your genes and how to make the best out of your body, and not seeing the genes as something as deterministic. But seeing them as a, ‘Well, here’s my genes, here's how I can optimize them and how I can also be aware of perhaps some of the weaknesses that I might have, and how I can make the best out of my body and out of my mind and out of my sporting performance and out of my health’.

So the word phenotype is a word that we use in our daily language now. But people probably don't quite understand what a phenotype. So, if you think of your DNA, your 23,000 genes odd, we're still counting, but around about there. And then everything that happens in your environment, or your food, your nutrition, the way you think, the perspective on life, your emotional well-being—all of these things affect your genes. And what is the result of that is how you are. That includes not only the way you look physically, but also the state of your mind, the state of your body, and the state of your health. It’s a combination.

So the ‘epi’ meaning above the gene, it’s outside of the genes, what's influencing the genes. So when we talk about genes being turned on and off, this is where it gets exciting because we have the ability. So, we inherited our genes, we can't do anything about that, mum and dad did that for us. We are given the blueprint half from mum, half from dad, we got to make this or that. However, which genes are actually activated and which are being transcribed—transcription is a word that is used in regards to genes—and actually read is very much in our control.

So some people get a little bit nervous when they hear genes or ‘Getting my gene system, maybe I'll come back with some bad genes’. Well, there's no such thing really as having—well, there is some bad mutations and so on—but we don't need to say, ‘Well, that means I'm going to get cancer. I've got the bracket gene, so I'm going to get cancer’. Or ‘I've got the MTHFR gene and the methylation, and I've got some bad mutations, therefore I am going to get XYZ’. That's not the case. It's like, ‘Oh, okay, got a bit of a problem here. Right, I have to do some certain interventions, or certain things that can help support my body’. And that's what we're all about. And today we want to focus in on the exercise part of the puzzle, and also the nutrition part of the puzzle.

So, if we go now into some broad body types, to give you a bit of a framework to build this around, and unfortunately, the podcast, for those watching on YouTube, we do have slides and stuff, but we haven't got them with us today. It's a little bit hard to picture. But if we go in now and talk a little bit about the three major body types, Neil, can you explain visually how they look? And what, yes?

Neil: Yes. So somatotypes, as they're called, are basically three different body shapes. Okay, so different bodies are going to respond to exercise in different ways.

Okay? So an ectomorph are generally taller, longer, slimmer, low percentage of body fat, leaner, and generally, depending on what they're doing, we'll find—will often struggle to put more lean tissue on. And regardless of whether exercising or not, they normally keep a similar sort of shape.

A mesomorph are normally a little bit shorter in stature, then that sort of traditional triangle shape. So broader shoulders, narrow at the waist, and shorter with the lower limbs, and they're very, very good at putting on muscle mass and usually put it on very quickly. And they're usually those a little bit more agile, quick, good coordination. And usually those good in the sporting arena as well.

Endomorphs are usually bigger bones, great putting on all tissues. So great putting on adipose tissue or body fat, also great putting on muscle. So bigger, much, much bigger units from a body point of view and evenly sort of shape with upper and lower body so that that mass is kind of distributed quite nicely across the whole body as well. And if you look around you, look at your family, your friends, those around you, you'll see that we all different shapes. And we should be different shapes, it's okay to be different shapes.

If I'm an endomorph, I don’t want to spend my entire time...

Lisa: ...trying to be an ectomorph.

Neil: ...trying to be an ectomorph. But this is the way the health and fitness industry has been set up, it is the picture of, ‘This is what we should all look like we should all look like this’. And we should all be great, which for some people, they're going to fit into that box and they're going to go, ‘Yay works for me’. Others, it's just not good news. We need to trade some more individuality and personalization around it, that people getting the right results.

If we take it a step further as well, this whole process starts when you're growing in your mum's tummy. So, the science of embryology, this all happens at that phase. And if you imagine as you're growing in mum's tummy, how much energy you're given to each of your derms. So you've got your ectoderm, your mesoderm, and your endoderm. As you're developing and growing in mum’s tummy, you'll get certain amount of energy into each of those derms. So this whole process of what body shape or somatotype you're going to be starting as you're growing in your mum’s tummy.

As you're developing—I’m just kind of sit as a ecto-meso, a little more on the ecto side. So, I'm kind of taller, stroke, with muscle — I can put some muscle tissue on more than the true ectomorph could. As I was developing in my mum’s tummy, I have much more energy go into my ectoderm. So, I have more development through my nervous system. So, I've got quite an active nervous system, more sensitive to pain, and a little bit of a very active mind. And probably described the body's a little bit more fragile than an endomorph body would be, which has more development through the digestive tract, and the ability to put more on tissue. So therefore, a much more resilient body, going to be better to deal with the calibre stress...

Lisa: The human weight

Neil: Endurance wise, it’s great at taking a whole lot of burn, physical endurance. From an exercise point of view, it’s a sort of body that's going to be well suited to powerlifting and things like that, but great endurance wise,

Lisa: Dwayne Johnson is a good example of one of those, isn’t it? The Rock.

Neil: Very much so. Very, very resilient body. This whole process is starting, as you—when you come into the world, you're kind of already going to be an ecto, a meso, or an endo, or a combination of—you might be an ecto-meso, meso-endo, and an endo-ecto.

But if you can start to relate as you're listening and look at your body shape, and start to think about where, what sort of body shape I've got, and what sort of activities should I be doing for that for that body? And what time of day, should I be doing it? And how should, what sort of dose of exercise should I be applying? Then you can start to get some good wins. Okay, you can start get some real, real good wins with your exercise and nutrition plan.

Neil: And that's what we sort of want to cover off today, it’s a little bit of a broad—it's a very broad overview. So Neil, and I have a program where we actually do your genes and have a have a whole technology behind us if you wanted to go into it and do a deep dive and find out exactly what you are and where you sit and what the right recommendations are for your body—the right foods, the right exercise, the right times a day.

But to just give you a broader overview here, what are some takeaways from today, so start to think where do I sit? So, I know that I sit on the ecto-meso sort of side of things. So I'm not a true-true mesomorph but I am quite muscular in built. I'm a little bit taller than your average mesomorph. So I have some ectomorph tendencies as well. So if I'm looking for me, there are certain things that are really good for me and certain things that are not so good for me.

And so, we're going to cover off a little bit today, those from them three major groups, the ectomorph, endomorph, and the mesomorph. What some high level wins that you can just take away from this podcast today and actually go, ‘I think I fall into that category or a combination of those two’, and then you can start to experiment. I mean, of course, come and see us, ask us some questions, do the program if you want to do it, but if you don't want to do it, you can take some high level wins away from this.

So for the—let's start with a mesomorph because it's sort of the part that I fall into and know quite well. So the mesomorph from our body type is very good at putting on lean muscle mass, they're very quick adapters. So when they exercise, they get results quite quickly. They're very coordinated usually and quite athletic. From a personality perspective, they can be quite into challenge and into beating everybody else, very competitive. They love to express themselves. So they're quiet, they need to be able to share their thoughts. Sometimes there's no filter between the brain and the mouth. And they have a dominance in testosterone and adrenaline if they're true mesomorph. And this means that they have a bit more of a risk-taking personality, they have a lot of drive and determination, they can push through, and they tend to go hard out. And they like a lot of change, and a lot of like, challenge, and that sort of thing. So, you can see, possibly, that I fit nicely into that category with a bit of ectomorph in there as well.

So for that person, Neil, can you explain what are some of the high level wins for them from an eating and an exercise perspective?

Neil: Yes, no worries, Lisa. So natural strengths for the sort of body you're just describing is going to be good from sort of hand eye coordination point of view. So, getting involved in activities that involve good hand eye coordination. They're going to be quite agile and quick, they're going to be able to move quickly, and respond quickly. From a body awareness point of view, they're going to have good connection with their body. Often you'll find—if you're the sort of body, you'll be able to pick things up quite quickly. Try sport, try an activity, and get it quite quickly. As you say, quick responders, so the type of exercise you're doing, and you're going to respond quickly to.

To be fair and probably very honest, this is the message the sort of people that the fitness industry is...

Lisa: Catering to

Neil: ...screaming about for years when you should do high intensity and sport training. So CrossFit style exercise, high-intensity interval training, short bursts of high intensity exercise worked very, very well for this body. So if you've got this body, those shorter sessions are sort of 20 to 40 minutes, is going to work very well for your body.

And things to be careful of here exercising for too long. So exercising for long periods of time, it's a lot to involve in, resulting in additional information and additional load on the body. So one of the biggest wins—and we've worked a lot on this, at least ourselves as well with your programming—is making sure that there’s enough rest in the program. Here, it's all about going hard but then resting hard. Going hard, resting hard.

Now what often happens is, a lot of our athletes, the runners that we work with, and just people looking for general health goals as well, we find that they go hard really well, but they don't rest so well. So, you end up with that inflammation, that additional load on the body, and then the next one, you end up with the injuries, niggles, and health burnout as well.

So just, yes, rest hard and all right to work out, make sure the rest hard is there as well. Move daily, the regular movement. As I'm talking to Lisa, now she's moving around on a...

Lisa: Rocket board.

Neil: Rocket board. So she's rocking back and forth. That’s great for her, it means we can do what we're doing. And she can stay in flow and she can stay in flow because she's moving regularly. For this body type, leaving it sat still, desk all day, is a recipe for disaster.

Lisa: Kills me.

Neil: So don't be sitting in the tree in the afternoon. Okay, be conscious about moving in that 2 to 4pm window, getting out and moving. If you sat at your desk, then stuff where you can work and move is very useful as well.

Lisa indicated that about having a competition—the challenge, whatever you’re doing, exercise-wise. This is why for the mesomorph programs like CrossFit works so well. You get a workout after the board, it’s like, ‘Right. What is the challenge for today? I don't know what it's going to be, what is it? We've got the challenge, it’s up on the board, the way we go, and now the whole group of people I can be’. So that’s why it works so well for the mesomorph.

Looking for opportunities as well. Working out earlier in the morning. Some good wins when you work out through the afternoon. But make sure that you are dipping things down and going through your working install exercises in the late afternoon and evening.

So you turn in the body down, mobility work, meditation work, stuff that's going to slow the system down and get you into a parasympathetic state. So, you're then ready to rest and recover and go and do the same thing the next the next day.

Lisa: Don't go hard out all night, which I used to do, day and night (laughs). Relinquish.

Neil: Rest, rest, rest hard. Food wise, you can start to see that it's a similar—it's going to be with the amount of movement that we're encouraging for the mesomorph. It’s like, ‘Right we're going to need to feel that’. So food to this body is like kindling on a fire. If you put it in and it burns through it quickly, transit time from mouth to bomb is pretty quick.

So you need to keep fuelling. So, three good meals, with breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then regular snacks. So, you're going to be looking at up to sort of five or six meals a day, that paleo style food recommendation, again has come out from the fitness industry, is great for the mesomorph.

Lisa: This type...

Neil: Okay? And enough protein. Protein is going to be key. Often we find that a lot of mesos we work with, and some are even vegetarian or vegan, where we get some massive wins, is getting the protein up. So protein is needed for the recovery, it's needed to see more so for this body type, so getting that happening and increasing that can be can be key.

Lisa: And to that point, quickly we did a podcast was two weeks ago, I think, with Dr. David Minkoff, make sure you go and listen to that podcast because it was all about the perfect amino combination and getting the right—so amino acids bring the building blocks of proteins, and this is a game changer for a lot of athletes, especially people who are in the mesomorph interview.

Definitely if you're vegan or vegetarian and try in your office body type, or if you're like me, and you're constantly dealing with a protein deficiency, then that can be really detrimental to your health. And there's a product that Dr. Minkoff has put out, which is just next level. I've had some great ones with it already with a couple of people that I'm working with and with myself. And just healing much better, much more calmer and so on because you're finally getting all the proteins that you need in the right combination.

So make sure you go and listen to that because when you have a steak, only 33% of that steak is actually going to turn into protein. So just because you eat meat, don't think you've already got it covered. So make sure you go and listen to that episode a couple of weeks ago.

Just as an aside, but the mesomorph does need a lot more protein. The mesomorph also has a lot more oxidative stress—they have a lot more oxidants. So, they need a lot of antioxidant support. So these antioxidants are things like your vitamin C, which I've just done a massive series on as well. Very, very important for this body type to define as your master, antioxidant bioflavonoids.

So, getting your fruits and your veggies and your things that have got this antioxidants in there can really help this type as well.

Neil: Connecting the dots a little bit for the listeners as well, Lisa, is that we're recommending here, when we said sort of dosage wise, we were talking about that sort of 20 to 45 minutes short session.

Now it could be, we got some runners listening and doing ultra-marathon runners like you used to, with your big distance you've done in the past, is looking at right, it doesn't mean you've got to stop running long distances and you've got to cut back to doing 20 to 45-minute sessions. You can still be a long-distance runner, but it becomes more important then that you rest harder. So the rest dosage needs to go up. Plus, really conscious then, are you getting the right amount of food in each day? And is there enough protein to support that additional workload?

So it's getting clever with going, ‘Right. There's other exercise that I want to do, which isn't necessarily the best choice of exercise for my body type, but I love it. So I'm going to carry on doing that. But now I can use the other information I've got to go right. What do I need more of to support my body through this’?

Lisa: And that's working in the grey, if you like. We've got our personal goals and then we've got our genetics and what they want. So, it's that's what we help with people to work in that grey area to make—like I wanted to do ultras, I did it for 25 years and had some fantastic times and successes but it did come at a cost because I wasn't aware of all this spec being and not necessarily covering all my bases which lead to problems, as shall we say.

Okay, let's move over now to the endomorph body type. So, these are those—the types of people that are bigger boned, like literally bigger boned, and they have more muscle mass, more bone mass, and they tend to be conservationists in their body type.

So, my mom's a classic example of an endomorph body type. Can level the smell of an oily rag basically, as far as food goes for a long period of time, and not lose weight and also not lose muscle which can have huge advantages and huge disadvantages.

So Neil, what are some of the exercise and food recommendations for the endomorph body type?

Neil: But generally, these guys' bodies we said when we're talking about the embryology side with the body shapes, these bodies are going to be good for endurance, they're going to be great for strength, you can put a significant amount of load through them.

Okay, so we've talked for now you start to see some differences coming in. We talked about the mesomorph, short, sharp, high-intensity, fast, explosive, quick style movements, Cross fit style stuff. Now we're going to talk about getting heavier weights. Okay? So heavier weights, lower repetitions, could be in the sort of five to eight rep range with good rest periods in between. So, you can get gains without pain. That message again, that's come out of the fitness industry over the years is, ‘Got to keep pushing. No pain, no gain’. Yes, we can get gain without the pain, that's fine. Just let the body take its time, put some good loads for a bit.

Things to take into care in here as well as we've got runners listening, which we probably have with the audience. Lisa's looking at making sure you've got a longer warm up. So, this body is going to take longer to warm up, if you're going to do some endurance stuff, give it a good 15, 20 minutes. A mesomorph body type might not need as long to warm up. Okay? There's going to be differences and care for the perfect repetitive impact and jumping without the extended warm up can still do them, but you need the longer the longer warm up for it.

Now, and generally in the morning, this body type—we said with a mesomorph get up early and get into some stuff. What we're saying here with this, the endo body shape is start slower. This body is going to have a different hormone balance as well. So, getting up early and loading the body with a high intensity class at 6am is probably going to result in that body putting on all adipose tissue and body fat tissue.

So you could do bootcamp, literally three days a week. You can train like a HIIT train and get better or not change at all. So both are just crazy concepts. I train three mornings a week, I eat six meals a day, and I'm getting better. So it's looking at—the morning should be about improving your circulation and rising slowly. So if you want to move, move, but keep at low volume.

Lisa: Low stress level. Go for a walk.

Neil: Low stress level. Ease into the day, spend time in nature, and then slower heavy lifting will start to get you better results.

Optimum times—when doing some training is going to be later in the day. So, the later you can push your training in the day, the better against slow start, pick up steam, and then go hard. And then use your energy before you go down into the latter part of the day.

And yes, just look at low reps, try it and test it. Okay? Like you said at the start, if you want to get the exact, here you are, come and look at the program. If you want to play with it and test it, see what results you get. Some more traditional style lifting, bigger compound movements, get some good weights through the body, and that weight will—sorry the body will respond well to that additional resistance. And that applies to guys and girls. Ladies, don't worry that you're going to start getting bigger. The result of this will start to change shape in a positive way by getting more load through your body.

Lisa: Exactly, and muscles are good things, girls. And an example of this is my brother Dawson, who looks like The Rock actually. And his classic training style is heavy, heavy weights, and doing them quite slowly. Whereas if you watch us two at the gym, I'm going hard out hard out, like back-to-back seats, changing. And he's sitting near with his music on and he's doing one set, and then he's having a rest, and then he's doing another set and having a rest.

And I used to think, ‘Shit, I don't want to do that because that's wasting my day. Like I don't want to spend so long at the gym’. And then he’s cut it down to the size he wants. But that's the right way to exercise for his body. Conversely, with my husband, Haisley—and I've said this before—I used to make them do CrossFit at 6am in the morning, which was a complete disaster for his body.

Neil: You’re a hard woman, Lisa.

Lisa: Yes, I am a hard woman. Poor Haisley.

And now that he does super long-distance running. And he does heavy weights, he doesn't like doing the weights particularly, so I got to drag him to the gym. But that—his body responds to that heavier slower weights but don't make him do CrossFit, he won't get the results and it won't be a good experience for him.

From a meal perspective, let's talk a little bit about their eating times and the chronobiology of their—when they should eat.

Neil: Yes. We talked about with the mesos that five or six times a day, the food is like kindling on a fire. Now we're going to change that. For this body type, we're looking at potentially changing the meals to say 10, 2, and 6. So later breakfast, later lunch, with lunch being the biggest meal. Lunch being the biggest meal of the day and then a smaller dinner as well. And in some key cases, depending how close you are to the meso and how close you are to the ecto in some cases, looking at—for the endomorphs looking at getting rid of breakfast all together and having a longer fast in the morning. Higher vegetarian. High vegetarian intake for these bodies as well.

And it's amazing, some of the local wins we've had with some of the guys working with locally in Hawke's Bay. Big guys, big sportsmen as well, and just going from eating sort of four or five times a day, lots of meat, reducing that meat down, increasing the vegetarian portion of food that's going into a diet, longer fast in the morning. Their energy has gone through the roof, their clarity of mind has gone through the roof. Their resilience with regards to niggles and injuries that they had before, which was probably down to inflammation, has now started to go. And the results they're getting is phenomenal.

Now, again, you see in the media that everyone should be fasting’s next best thing. What we're seeing now that for some people it is the next best thing, it's the perfect thing.

Lisa: For these guys, it’s great.

Neil: For these guys, it’s great. For others, if you put me on a fasting process like that, when we talked about the ectomorph having the high nervous development in the nervous system, need carbohydrates for the brain. I'd be out cold by lunchtime, if I follow through a meal time like that. I would have probably eaten one of my limbs.

So the more time for a person...

Lisa: I mean, you could do a fast. But you do a shorter fast don't you, Neil? So you do a 12-hour as opposed to...

Neil: Yes, so generally I won’t eat after seven in the evening and then don't eat until seven again in the morning.

Lisa: So it’s a 12-hour fast type of thing? Yes

Neil: So, to kick start my day, I need to eat the carbs.

Lisa: Yes. And so that's just working in with your thing. Because there is good things about fasting, don't get me wrong here. Like there is really good things about fasting for all body types to a certain degree. Woman have to be a little bit careful with a longer, longer fast, in relation to—so I find and if you're of an ectomorph side of the wheel then, and to a certain extent, a meso, then your fast should be a little bit shorter.

There are some great things about fasting, especially if you're dealing with weight issues or inflammation on the body. Or if there's some specialized reasons why you want to do longer fasts for autophagy, inhibiting mTOR and things like that. But that's outside today's discussion.

But it is a general rule, a good 12-hour intermittent fast for an ecto is a great thing to give your body a rest. For an endomorph, if you can last for up to 16 hours or even longer, brilliant. And you can actually even go for longer periods of time if you're really on the endomorph side of the scale without too much detriment.

So it's a learning to understand but definitely only two to three meals a day. And not five to six meals a day is probably a key takeaway point.

Neil: Correct. And the way we've had the biggest wins just as a little summary for these guys is changing the exercise time. So, moving the exercise the later in the day, and going to three meals, at 10, 2, and 6. Huge, huge, huge wins.

Lisa: Already.

Neil: So it's simple changes, massive results.

Lisa: Yes, slower, slower periods in between your seats, or long-distance slow sort of aerobic activity perfect for these guys.

Okay, now let's go to the ectomorph, the last sort of group on the spectrum, if you like. What do these guys need?

Neil: So these guys are generally going to be your speed endurance guys and girls. They're going to be the ones that got the ability to live on that threshold. So, they often be your triathletes, your sort of middle-distance runners, those people that—and some people also long-distance runners—but they can live on the edge, that lactate threshold quite comfortably and enjoy it for quite long periods of time.

So high drive to do that as well. So, they want to do that, enjoy doing that. And we talked as well about them being more developed in the nervous system. So, the rhythmical exercise of cycling and running and swimming, that helps calm his body a little bit as well. So the rhythm is a good exercise, almost like a meditation, will help calm that I find being able to process my thoughts of mine while I'm on a bike or running is the best place to do it.

Things to be careful of. This body will often be stiffer through the spinal cord and will often have to tie some more rigid tissue. So, you need a balance of that speed endurance work and but also to complement that, you're going to need a lot of mobility work, flexibility work. Okay? Stuff that's going to mobilize, moving up the spine.

From a repetition point of view, we've just talked about the endomorph having higher reps. I am personally, historically would always come out...

Lisa: Oh right. Actually.

Neil: ...generally done a strength block a couple of times a year. I would end up doing reps of sort of five to eight heavy lifting and that's when I'd usually pick up most of my injuries. The reason is my body just wasn't, is...

Lisa: Not designed for that.

Neil: Not capable—capable is not the right word—it’s not designed, as you say, to do that. I can put some heavier load through it but we need to be a lot more careful than an endomorph body would. So high reps, 12 to 20 reps, lots of mobility work and really going a day of high intensity, endurance base work followed by a day of recovery, yoga, mobility work, and peaking and troughing like that.

Okay, and good windows of opportunity with exercise around seven in the morning. And then again in the afternoon, depending on what works best for this body type. Okay, again, seeing quite big differences. Differences in body shape, therefore differences in the type of exercise you're going to respond to and the results you're going to get from it.

Lisa: Yes. Now, I think that rounds it out really nicely.

So you got your ecto, your endo, and your mesomorph. And this is a helicopter view, guys. If you want to dig deeper into the whole science of the genetics and epigenetics, then we can get really granular. Like we can tell you, ‘Don't eat kale, do eat spinach’, like down to that root sort of level.

But just to keep it so you can take away some wins for today, those that I think, try and identify what you are. Whether you're like me, a bit of a mixture between a mesomorph and an ectomorph, and where use it on that scale, listen to this, again. Pick out some of those—because this is about low hanging fruit and getting a couple of wins. And if you take away from this that you should be eating a little bit later in the day and doing your exercise later in the day, then that's a little bit already a positive one then, that’s an understanding.

I think one of the biggest things that I've gotten out of this whole genetics, this whole genre of it, you and I’ve gone down, Neil, in the functional genomics and the epigenetics is, it's okay to be me. In that in all aspects, whether it's us working together in our business, in the way our brains work, in the way our personality is, in the times of the day that we do things, right through to the nutrition, and right through to the social, and understanding, ‘Hey, I was born this way’.

Not that this is an excuse to be not great at something, but it does explain why I do things in a certain way, and why my brain works in a certain way, why my body reacts in certain ways. And that gives you permission to be you because like as a young woman, I know that I was always wanting to be an ectomorph. I always wanted to be the super skinny model type girl and I was a muscular athletic girl and that was not okay because that was not what I wanted to be. And I know Neil's struggled with the same thing here. Small calf muscles and thought, ‘If I do a billion reps of calf muscle exercise, I’m going to have big calves’. And you're pushing should have basically, aren’t you, Neil? You can’t be what you’re not.

Neil: They weren’t enough.

Lisa: Now you love your calves because you can run a lot faster than I can, that's for sure.

Neil: Yes. They’ll look great in heels.

Lisa: Exactly. And you know, for someone like mum who struggles with the weight because of the endomorph tendencies. I tell you what if she hadn't had that type of body, she wouldn't have got up out of a wheelchair after two years of being unable to walk. Because she still had muscle mass. She still had good bones, she still didn't have osteoporosis, or anything.

So there are advantages and there are disadvantages to everybody type. The thing to take away is let's work with our advantages. Let's be aware of our weaknesses and let's accept ourselves, I think, as we are and understand ourselves better. And that's probably a good place to wrap it up...

Neil: Nicely.

Lisa: ...for the day.

Neil: We'll wrapped up. Very good.

Lisa: Okay guys, well thank you very much once again for listening to us. Please do reach out to either Neil or I if you want support doing this program. We'd love to have you join us of course.

Or if you've got any other health issues or whatever you want to talk about, or your fitness journey, you're running, you've got some goals, please reach out to us. You can get us at support@lisatamati.com. Give the show a rating and review and share this please with your friends. We love doing this type of thing, aren’t we, Neil? If we could just do this all day, we’ll be stoked.

Neil: Would be nice. Would be nice.

Lisa: We love teaching, we love sharing, we love having good content out there in the world. So, thanks very much, guys and we'll see you again next week.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Have you ever wondered what it must feel like to be a world record holder?

It may seem like their experiences are so different from yours, but you’ll be surprised with how alike they are to you. They may share the same hobbies or be in the same industry as you before they made their record. Or they may have faced the same struggles you're currently confronting. No matter where they come from, great people are still people, just like you.

Today, ex-Special Forces soldier, security specialist, and record-breaking adventurer Dean Stott joins us. He shares his experiences, from his military background to his Pan-American Highway cycling adventure. His is an inspiring story of pushing the limits and redefining the meaning of ‘adventurer’. Just like everyone journeying through life, he has also faced challenges on the way to the finish line. After listening to the episode, you may gain the motivation to try something you've never done before.

If you’re thinking of one day achieving a world record or if you want to know the meaning of being an adventurer, this episode is for you.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find inspiration as Dean shows us the meaning of adventurer. 2. Realise your similarities in experiences with a world record holder. 3. Gain insight into how long-distance cycling is both a physical and mental feat.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Listen to other Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #192: Mental Resilience and Endurance: A Journey Across the Ocean with Laura Penhaul * Connect with Dean: Website | Instagram | Facebook | Twitter

  • Relentless by Dean Stott

  • The Black Country Buddhas Podcast Episode #55: Dean Stott- Human Performance, World Records And The Unrelenting Pursuit Of Excellence!

  • 13 Hours (2016)
  • Heads Together UK
  • Windy TV

Episode Highlights [04:53] Dean’s Background * Dean’s father was a tracksuit soldier or the football manager and coach in the army. * Dean was an active child growing up. * While he was never forced to go into the military, he ended up joining anyway.

[09:00] The Fruits of Dean’s Military Training * Dean’s time in the military helped him put on some muscle and gain height and weight. * He didn’t feel pressure to choose a department because he wasn't aware of how difficult each option would be. Dean ended up in the SBS (Special Boat Service) as he was more comfortable with water. * He learned that rehearsing over and over helps you prepare for different scenarios. * Dean’s training also prepared him to expect things to never go according to plan. He was taught how to react and plan for the best outcomes.

[16:57] Dean’s Turning Point * Unfortunately, Dean had an accident while on an aircraft jump during pre-deployment training. * Luckily, he landed successfully. However, he tore numerous supporting muscles, particularly in his knee. He couldn’t even run 100 meters due to these injuries. * Dean left the military. After retiring, he experienced an identity crisis. * Dean's wife, Alana, was also pregnant. So, he was under a large amount of mental pressure. * Alana helped him during this challenging period.

[22:35] Experience in the Security Industry * With his training from the Special Forces, Dean went on to the security industry. He carried out projects for the British and Canadian embassies. * Dean bought weapons and communication tools to sell to his clients. Additionally, he also made and sold evacuation plans to oil and gas companies. * Ad-hoc security projects were a better option for Dean as he didn’t want to join organisations. * He helped in the aftermath of the Benghazi assassination of the then American ambassador. With his safe houses and contacts, he was able to transport people from Benghazi to Tripoli. * Despite the numerous tribal and ideality differences between these two places, Dean helped people safely reach their destinations. He did this by communicating respectfully and humbly with the locals.

[31:33] The Effect of Fear * The media largely contributes to the world’s perception of high-risk places. * Dean is fully aware of the threats present in his job. But he learns to appreciate and look at another perspective. * Despite terrorist threats and danger, these high-risk cities have hospitable people and lovely surroundings.

[37:03] Looking for the Meaning of ‘Adventurer’ * Dean became fixated on working to gain money. Then, he realised he was losing physical and mental wellness. * Before turning 40, Dean experienced a midlife crisis. He wanted to leave a legacy. And so he chose to break a world record on cycling. * Dean chose to cycle from South Argentina to North Alaska via the Pan-American Highway, the longest road in the world. * To beat the record of 117 days, Dean's goal needed to cover the distance in 110. So, he trained to cycle in different weather conditions and altitudes. * Dean cycled for Heads Up, the mental health campaign of Prince Harry, Prince William, and Kate. He set a target of ₤1,000,000.

[48:11] Preparation Phase * As Dean was doing his research for cycling, he also spoke to previous record holders. * He asked them questions that he learned from his experiences in Special Forces debriefings. * Dean learned that the previous record holders experienced issues in South and Central America, the second half of the challenge.

[49:27] Dean’s Journey Across South and Central America * Dean decided to start in the south first to get all the issues out of the way. His adventure began in Southern Argentina. * He became physically and mentally stronger after four weeks on the road. Most of the time, Dean would also go beyond his daily-set kilometres and hours. * He divided his milestones into countries, cities, and days. He also divided his days among four stages. * With smaller and more manageable milestones, Dean didn't feel overwhelmed. He instead felt like he was training, nothing more. * Dean looked forward to small rewards after each milestone. These motivated him to move and be better the next day.

[55:47] Dean’s Trip Across North America * By this time, Dean learned that he was invited to Prince Harry’s wedding. This meant he had to finish the challenge in 102 days. * So, he cycled at night. * Dean also saw a post of a recent world breaker, saying he’ll break a record within 100 days. * Dean’s family was also at the end to greet him; this thought motivated him. * So, Dean cycled for 22 hours every day, even at -18 degrees, to beat the record.

[1:01:50] The Cycling World Record * Dean's adventure lasted for 99 days. He spent ninety-four days cycling and five days on logistics. * He averaged 147 miles a day with a speed of 16.8 miles per hour. Dean also lost 12 kilos. * Most importantly, he raised $1.2 million, or ₤900,000, through corporate donors and sponsors. * He was even able to attend the royal wedding.

[1:03:19] Events Following Dean’s Adventure * Dean experienced two highs in a week and felt a depression phase after. * Dean did a Q&A with Prince Harry shortly after returning to talk about the amount they raised. * It's weird for your family to go on with their everyday lives while you’re still riding the highs of your success. * Dean feels lucky because his family is involved in his activities. So, they can be with him throughout his journey. * Anyone can do a world record when they have the luxury to just focus on their craft and immediate goals. Mortgages, physical health, and family responsibilities may get in the way of those goals.

[1:08:44] What Lies Ahead for Dean * His next goal is to kayak from Rwanda to Egypt, which is a 4,280 mile-long feat. * This time, he will raise awareness on issues such as human trafficking, modern slavery, and pollution. * This new feat will also promote African people and their beautiful and natural environment. * Kayaking is more skill-involved since he'll be encountering wild animals and overcoming water currents and waterfalls. * Listen to the episodes about the specifics of Dan’s preparations.

[1:14:54] Final Thoughts and Advice * Don't compare yourselves to other people, especially on social media. * Anticipation is worse than participation. * Start with small steps and progress from there.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘If someone disagrees, “I didn't think you're gonna do it”. The best way to prove them wrong is actually physically doing it.’

‘You can't control the uncontrollables, you know, as long as you have a plan. One thing I saw, really take from the military is that meticulous planning and detail that goes into it.’

‘What I really took from the military is that unrelenting pursuit of excellence, trying to be the best you can be.’

‘The world's very quick to tarnish certain societies with one brush because of what they've seen on TV.’

‘Before you get, sort yourself out, you know, we'll sit down, and we'll ask three questions: “What worked? What didn't work? And if you're going to do it again, what would you do differently?”’

‘And then it was just, look at the next two hours. Look at the next stage. I didn't look at the afternoon, didn’t look at the next day. And before you've done it, you've done a day, you've done a week, you've done a world record.’

‘Don't worry about what other people are doing. Just focus on yourself. You know, I always say anticipation is worse than participation.’

About Dean Dean Stott is a former member of the British Special Forces, where he travelled to dangerous places for 16 years. After an accident, he was forced to find other ways to use his time and skills. With his experiences in the Special Forces, Dean is now a world-leading security consultant and avid adventurer.

Indeed, Dean redefines the meaning of adventurer in everything that he does. He has set the world record, cycling the entire 14,000 km Pan-American Highway in less than 100 days.

Apart from these successes, Dean is also a motivational speaker who helps others overcome fear and adapt to change. His positive mindset and wide range of skills also enable him to work with brands and charities. He also incorporates advocacies into his adventures, with his most recent world record supporting mental health.

Check out his website if you want to know more about Dean and his next adventure. You can also reach him through other platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can understand the meaning of being an ‘adventurer’ and go on their own adventures.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back everybody. Lisa Tamati here, your host. Fabulous to have you with me again for another crazy episode of Pushing the Limits. Before we get underway with today's guests who I know you're going to find very, very exciting and interesting, just a reminder, to check out our epigenetics program, our flagship program that we do. One of our main programs besides our online run training system, where we look at your genes and how to optimise your life, your nutrition, your food, your exercise, all aspects of your life, including your social, your career, what parts of your mind you use the most, your dominant hormones, all this information is now able to be accessed and we can identify the lifestyle changes and the interventions that we can make to optimise your life. So if you want to hit know a little bit more about that program, head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the work with us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program, go and check that out.

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Right. Today's guest is oh he's a bit of a legend. Dean Stott is his name. He's a ex-Special Forces soldier, he was in the special boat service, British Army's where he came from originally. And he spent 16 years going into the most dangerous places on the planet and doing his job as a frogman. That's his nickname on his website. Even, as The Frogman. He is the author of a book called Relentless. Go figure, we've both got books called Relentless. I think we knew that we were going to get along. He's a motivational speaker. He's also a world record holder. Most recently he cycled the entire Pan-American highway. What are we talking- what is it, 14,000 miles or something ridiculous. And he did it in under 100 days. He's an absolute legend. And he had to get it done in time to get to Harry and Megan's winning. So he was desperate to get it done under 100 days. It's a really interesting story. This is a guy who's lived life on the edge in every which way you can possibly imagine. So I'm really looking forward to sharing his insights and his story with you now. Right, over to the show with Dean Stott.

Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Your host Lisa Tamati here, sitting in New Zealand and ready for a fantastic interview today. I have a bit of a hard ask with me. I think it's a bit hard to describe this man, what he's done. I have Dean Stott with me. Dean, welcome to the show. It's fantastic to hear you. Yeah, you're sitting in Orange County?

Dean Stott: I say, yeah moved to move to Orange County in California six months ago, actually in the middle of the pandemic. Just took advantage of the world pause, and just changed scenery.

Lisa: Just change the scenery. Right, Dean we're gonna have a really interesting conversation because when I discovered you actually through another friend's podcast, My Home Vitality, shout out to Sean and everyone over there. And I realised that we had the same title of our books, was your one right?

Dean: Yeah.

Lisa: My one's been smaller. I thought, you, ‘This guy's probably right up my alley’. So you are known as the frogman, you've been in this Special Forces, Special Boat Services. You have also become an expeditionary athlete and adventurer and, in many years. But I want to go back a little bit, and it's starting to, were you always this determined and crazy and head through the wall type of person? And tell us a little bit about your background for starters.

Dean: Yeah, so I don't know whether I was on reflection, you look back and think maybe I was slightly, you know, you touched when I was in the military, my father was in the military. And I grew up surrounded by that, in that environment, but was never forced upon me to continue any sort of tradition and things like that. My father was the army football manager and coach. So he was very sports-oriented, what we would call a tracksuit soldier. He very much that, you know, his career was based on his sport and abilities. So there was that competitive drive anyway, that I had from my father. My parents split up when I was a young age. And when I was about eight years old, I moved away with my mother for a couple of years. My father then got custody of me and my sisters, we went back to live with my dad, so I only had the single parent, and we just went everywhere with him. And it was all with the military and all these sporting events. I wasn't, you know, the children of today, with technology, you know, when we were younger, as you will know, we know you weren't allowed in the house unless it was absolutely raining.

So we had some natural physical robustness. And by, I joined the military, I approached my father and told him my intentions of joining the military, when I was 17. And he, he told me, I'd last two minutes. I don't know whether that was reverse psychology for me to push harder and prove him wrong. And, but I was about 65 kilos, and five-foot-seven, so I wasn't, you know, the figure, the man that I am today. And, but when I did join the military, I then went through training and things. And I didn't have aspirations of being Special Forces or commandos or anything like that. And I didn't, I wasn't really aware about the structure of the military anyway, because it was just sport. That's all I've seen where my dad, I hadn't seen the bigger picture. So then when I pass basic training. It’s only 10 weeks long, you know, you then get a little bit of confidence in your abilities. And then you started in a short period of time, by the age of 20, or 21 actually, I was a para-commando diver and a PTA, done every arduous force within the military. But I'd grown so quick over those two or three years, and I will be about 85 kilos, now. I'm five-foot-eleven. So I was getting confident in my own abilities. And I was also growing into the individual that I was today. And I mean, once you pass a certain threshold, or pass a course, you then sort of look at, ‘Well, what's next?’ You know, I wasn't the best on the courses, but I just gave it my 100%. And then you sort of, your career then starts channelling in one direction, you then those before you or your peers, the mentors are all going Special Forces. And then it's like, the next question is, ‘Why not? Let's have a crack.’

Lisa: Yeah, that it takes a special type of person to be able to, like, I grew up in a family with lots of stories, like my dad was only in the military for a short time, but he was a firefighter. And so, you know, my husband's a firefighter, my dad's a firefighter, my brother's a firefighter, we’re a firefighter family. And when I was a girl, when I was a little girl, we couldn't, I couldn't grow up to be a firefighter. It wasn't, it wasn't you know, unfortunately. Thank God, you can now. And, you know, if my dad had had his way, I would have been a firefighter, I would have been an SAS soldier, I would have been like, because he was a hard ass And he wanted all of that for me. And, you know, unfortunately, society sort of stopped some of the things. So I ended up doing it in other ways that I could do it. But wasn't there a lot of pressure? Did you feel like you had to live, you know, your dad saying that to you? Was it sad and just a thing? Or did that really bite with you that, ‘Hey, I'm going to prove you wrong,’ you know what I'm going for?

Dean: Yeah, I think for me, it was. And we'll talk about other stories in my career, and it seems to be a common theme. I know, I fought. There's no point in arguing my father, you know, and or anyone, if someone disagrees, ‘I don't think you're gonna do it’. The best way to prove them wrong is actually basically doing it. Yeah. And then you don't even need to say anything. You just need to just leave that pause. And so I think for him, I don't know. I think it was a throwaway comment, you know, the fact I still talk about it now. And you know, a lot of people say to me, would you say that to your son? So of course, you know, I mean, I and, but for me it was that drive. Now, my father we talked about, you know, he really, he was sport oriented, actually when I joined Military I got sent to Germany to play football as well, because they knew I was Dave Stott’s son.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dean: And see, after a year of being there, I said, ‘No, I don't want to follow the same footsteps as my father, I want to carve my own path.’ And that's when I then went, commando, para and things. So I was going a different path from my father, he wasn't a para commando and things like that. So for me, it was like, this was new territory to me. I wasn't really put under pressure from him. I know a lot of guys who I served with, you know, from a young age, from young boys, all they ever wanted to be was a Royal Marine, or a para, they wanted to be SAS and things. I didn't, I wasn't, there was something that I didn't–

Lisa: You weren’t conditioned.

Dean: Look, I wasn't even aware of it. That was why. So when I approached these courses, I didn't put myself under that self-induced pressure with some of these guys– guys and girls do. And I think that helped in a way. I sort of approached it in a, you know, it is what. It is not being naive, it's not what was involved walk in the park. But, you know, I was aware how difficult it was. But it wasn't the be-all or end-all. You know, some guys who did it, don't achieve the grades or, or the standards, and then they're broken. That’s all their life. And I think it's actually too much pressure on themselves. So sort of going into these situations, you just need to be a bit open-minded.

Lisa: And what was the training like to go into the Special Forces and to know what you do? What is it like to go through– because we see the stuff on the telly, and you know, everybody knows about how hard ass all that type of training is. And what do you need? What did you get out of it? What was the experience like for you to do those extreme sort of courses?

Dean: Well for me, it’s very much a grown-up course. You know, the way that then, you've got this stuff on TV, where you have the perception it's hard-ass and everyone's swearing and shouting here. And it is night and day from that, you know. I understand with TV, there's a fine line between authenticity and entertainment. Actually, if you film selections, it’s actually quite boring. You know, these guys just get told where they got to go. And they just do it. So, and that's what I liked about the course is that the fact that you're– you all grow– you’re all treated as grown-ups. There was no shouting, and they just told you what to do. They didn't need to shout, the selection was that hard in itself, that they didn't need to put that additional pressure on you. So I did what I can. And in fact, they gave you some sort of independence. To think on your own. I was fortunate to be an instructor on the commando course and also the senior dive instructor. So I've seen it from an instructor's perspective. And on those sort of courses, you do give the students some motivation and inspiration as well.

But on this one, you don't get anything. Yes, you get the reverse when you go to the jungle, and they tell you about how you're not doing well. And you know, just give up now and save six months of your life and things out. But again, I got that reverse psychology as a young boy telling me I couldn't do it. So yeah. And for me, I didn't go– you're– I was from, I came from the army. So I, the normal traditional route was especially SAS. I went SBS. I was one of the first army guys to do that. And that was because I'd spent eight years with three commando brigades, Brigade Iraqi force and I was a senior dive instructor. So water, I was more comfortable in water. So the special boat service was that natural transition for me. So they say when you go on selection, be the gray man, you know, just don't don't stand out and bring attention to yourself and things. I’ll be the gray man for about two minutes. Because they will react, they’ll scream my name out. And that's why I was going this way and not the traditional, right?

Lisa: Because you came from the wrong place.

Dean: Yeah, although I didn't put myself under my own self-induced pressure. I had that sort of hovering above my head. But again, once you– if you're confident in your abilities, and there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance at that age. I was a 28 year old sergeant. And I spent seven years in Brigade Iraqi. I've seen those who've gone before me and I knew that I was just as good as then. And you sort of know that they're going to play these mind games and when they come, as long as you identify when they come in and just deflect it.

Lisa: Yeah. Has it really helped you in everything that you've done since like, what are some of the key learnings that you take away from doing such arduous, tough, scary stuff?

Dean: Um, I think, you know, you can't control the uncontrollables you know, as long as you have a plan. One thing I saw, really take from the military is that meticulous planning and detail that goes into it. And the fact that we rehearse, rehearse, and rehearse. You know, we do that over and over and over again. You know, I've been guest speaking alongside some, like, some of the England rugby players. They talk about the World Cup, now that how they repeat an exercise, until they get 1% better. You know, we'll rehearse, rehearse all these different scenarios. And, but ours is a bit of a different situation. You know, if we get it wrong or pause or hesitate, you know, we don't lose five points in a row, we lose lives. Guys, people will get killed.

So yeah, so there's that which what I really took from the military is that unrelenting pursuit of excellence, trying to be the best you can be. But also, as well as the planning, and that we talked about that, we'll probably talk about it later when we talk about the bike ride, is the fact that not– nothing always goes to plan. Plan is the best plan in the world, you know, and things never go to plan. And don't worry about that. And that's what I liked about the Special Forces is there were a lot of, ‘Well, if you don't go as planned, you just react to the situation that's in front of you.’ And a good friend of mine told me a quote, ‘You can't be experienced without experiences’. And that's what I got from the military. The military, a lot of these big corporates around will, would love to try and replicate the scenarios or, or conditions that these people have been in, but you just can't. And that's the great thing about the military. They put you in some high octane environments, in difficult positions, difficult environments, and having to make difficult decisions. But you learn from that, you know, my decision, when was the wrong decision? You know, when you have to make? Yeah, you just reflect back on what worked and what didn't work.

Lisa: Wow. So you were in the military for, I think it was 16 years, was it, or something?

Dean: Yes, yes. Yeah.

Lisa: And so it was a big chunk of your life. And then and then what happened? Tell us about the accident.

Dean: Yeah. So I joined, I joined a special forces in the height of the war on terror. So I was the pinnacle of my career, everything was going really well. I was doing what these children nowaday plays Call of Duty. That was my lifestyle, day in day out. And we're just about to get pre-deployment training to go back out to Afghanistan again, and we're out training in Oman. And I was doing what's called a HAHO jumps, it’s a high altitude, high opening jump. So unlike freefall, where you're free aligned, you're actually still connected to the aircraft. You exit the aircraft at 15,000 feet. And you do that, because that's the limits of oxygen. Any higher and you need oxygen. You open the aircraft and the parachute will open– pull open straight away. And when you travel up to 50 kilometers, or 30 minutes in the air to the target area. So I've done– no– we've done hundreds of these jumps before, I think it's about the third or fourth jump in a day.

And I just exit the aircraft as I normally did, no different from any time before. But this time, when I look, there was something wrong and my leg was actually caught in the line above my head. So I was trying to clear my leg in time before the parachute opened and potentially rip my leg off. But I couldn't clear it in time. The parachute opened, pulled my leg up over my head and the right. Thankfully made my foot released. And otherwise wouldn't be here having this conversation. But straight away I knew there was a problem. The pain was so severe that I was vomiting and because of how thin the air was, I was drifting in and out of consciousness. But no one else in the team knew there was a situation so I wasn't going to come over to net and tell them that I had a sore leg. So I managed to stay with the team, assess where the other parachutes were coming in against the wind.

And my first challenge was to land it because if I didn't land it correctly, you know, on one leg, you know potentially, you could damage your good leg. So, but I did. It was a great, great landing, landed one-legged. And fortunately, the damage sustained on the exit show in my career. As I tore my ACL, my MCL, my lateral meniscus, my hamstring, my calf and my quadriceps, so all these supporting muscles–

Lisa: Just got ripped.

Dean: Yeah, just got ripped. But you know, in the ideal world you would go straight back to UK and you start physio, you just start working on it. But it was the same time as the Icelandic volcano which grounded all aircraft. I was there for about nearly five weeks just thrown in a hotel with painkillers.

Lisa: Are you kidding. So that was it.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, I sort of missed that, and then got back to UK. I remember I made it back to UK, got sent home for six weeks and leaves. We’re now talking about 11, 12 week period from the injury. Then they lost my MRI scans. It was just a spiral of failure in the medical system there. And so yeah, so I left. But all I've ever known, it’s 16 years. Military, even as a young child growing up. So I didn't have, I didn't look beyond the military. For me, I was a lifer. That was me.

Lisa: Wow. So how did that, apart from the gun to the physical injury, but how did that affect you mentally? Like you suddenly– you're at the top of your game, you've been training for this forever, you're doing your job. And then all of a sudden, you're out of the game. And you’re completely sidelined. What happened to you mentally from that side?

Dean: My wife will tell you a different–

Lisa: You didn’t get divorce. So that's good.

Dean: But the one of the things I scored an identity crisis. Well, it is whether you believe in the military, whether you're a professional sports person, or whether you're just someone who works in an organisation or a team, but I've been– I've gone from working in a tight-knit unit, having a role and having a purpose, knowing what I was doing for the next two years, to like, ‘Where do I now fit in society? What was my role and purpose?’ But I got to where I got to, because of my physical robustness. That had now been taken away from me as well. I couldn't even run 100 meters without my leg being in pain. So I had that going on in the background. Also, to add to the pressure, my wife was eight months pregnant. So also wondering whether there is going to be any work there. How am I going to support my family? And thankfully, for me, my wife is very entrepreneurial. You know, you hear horror stories of men and women when they leave the military, about that transition can be quite turbulent. Mine was quite smooth. You know, the military, like your mother and father, you know, they clothe you, they feed you, they pay you on time. You don't even know what, who provides the water or what to eat. You’ve just got a job to do.

But when we leave, we're not aware of who we need to speak to in the council's or the state. There. So my wife was a bank manager for three sons and their banks in Aberdeen. So the stuff that I would normally be worried about, she was, ‘Yeah, I've got all that.’ And she sent my first security company on a Blackberry watching TV, you know, done the right paperwork. So when, so whatever I was going through a hard time having to talk personally, you know, thankfully, wasn't that bad, because my wife had sort of–

Lisa: Yeah, she's awesome.

Dean: But yeah, I just had, you know, talking to the security industry, the pressure of trying to, if there's any work. And I was very fortunate. Within 48 hours I was asked if I can go out to Libya, which I know you're familiar with, to help set up the different project restart the British Embassy during the Arab Spring. And so that's what I did. So wow, look at me, I had work straight away. And I was out in Benghazi, helping sell that project.

Lisa: Can you tell us a little bit about that story? Because that sounds like a bit of a movie.

Dean: You know– familiar I did– when I left, I wanted to find a niche within the security industry. I didn't want to go to Afghanistan and Iraq and do the hostile action, because I've sort of done that, you know, I've done that bit. And you know, I was very lucky to survive. So why would you take another risk? And I looked at the security industry, and actually, a lot of my friends from the special boat service. They were, they had their maritimes companies who are dealing with the Pirates of the east coast of Africa. So I didn't want to be competing with them either. My wife's from Aberdeen, so I moved back to Scotland with her. It’s the only gas capital of Europe. So where is all this trouble? So I was looking into more in the corporate clothes protection sort of industry, that's where my head was focused.

But when I got to Libya, I soon identified that Libyans didn't want another Libyan, another Afghan or Iraq once Gaddafi had fallen, they wanted to take control. But also these larger security companies, the big five, now sort of like dominate the industry. They were charging crisis management in evacuation plans, when actually we just scraped the surface, there was nothing in place. So I flew home, my wife gave birth to our daughter, Molly. And I said, ‘Look, I have a plan. Do you mind if I take our savings out of the bank?’ And that's what I did. And I went back into Libya, there was a huge proliferation of weapons at this point. It's actually ammunition was difficult to get hold of, weapons are not a problem.

So I bought 30 weapons off the black market, and I buried them between Tunis and Egypt and buried them with communications equipment money, and just designed my own evacuation plan, spent a month in the desert. These in design. And I mean, I sold them to a couple of the oil and gas companies on a retainer and just just sat on them. Then the security industry. You know, for me, I didn't want to work for an organisation and be on rotation and things like that. I took a gamble and it was very ad hoc. So each time I got a phone call was a different job. So you know, for example, we did London Olympics. And then next thing you're taking the UAE royal family superyacht from Barcelona to Maldives, and you're training the Kurdish Special Forces in Erbil.

Lisa: Wow! Fascinating!

Dean: It's very diverse. When you tell people in the security industry, I mean, they think you're a doorman from the local nightclub.

Lisa: Surely not.

Dean: I'd like to help people as well. And I'm for me, but what it what it was good for me was– is I was seeing– some of these countries that I've been to anyway with the military, but seeing all the cultures and seeing how things, not from a military perspective, because it was almost a little bit blinkered, there, you know.

Lisa: Yes. Like you say, your head, your role.

Dean: You know, it’s understanding more the politics, the demographics and things like that. So I just come back from the London Olympics. I was in Benghazi. And in the evening, the American ambassador got killed. And they made it into a film called 13 Hours.

Lisa: Yes, that's what I thought, it sounds very familiar, I'm sure.

Dean: I know, I always say, ‘Right place, right time’ or ‘Wrong place, wrong time’. And I was there in Benghazi. And I was asked by a German oil company if I could get some of their German engineers from Benghazi to Tripoli. So I had safe houses in the desert. And that's what I did over the three days. I took them back out. And then two years later, I was in Brazil, covering the World Cup.

Lisa: You’re just like… You just got them out through a hole and you do that like going to the supermarket.

Dean: There's no real, no threat to them, no direct threat to them. the only issue I had with that one, you know, we could have– I had drivers from Benghazi, who took us out initially. The problem in Libya, you have 167 tribes. And this is where there's real issues. Because, I mean, you have, you know, those in the East in Benghazi, don't like those in the West in Tripoli. You know, the politics are in Tripoli, the oils are in the East. And so it's understanding that as well. And that's why, so we did it over three days, and the reason we did that is, I was actually, I had the drivers from Benghazi in the safe house. And now that will, ‘You know, Mr. Dean, we can go on because Tripoli is only, you know, it's not far, 300 kilometers’. But they didn't realise I had drivers coming in from Tripoli.

Lisa: And you didn’t want them to–.

Dean: And I didn't want the drivers to compromise us when we go in. So I woke up that morning that we were setting off and the drivers that arrived from Tripoli, the drivers and Benghazi in there. They all had their guns out.

Lisa: Oh, my God.

Dean: I say I mean, I mean, they’re worried they weren't gonna get paid. I said, ‘No, you're paid. I just can't take you to Tripoli.’ And so it's just understanding that sort, rather than just driving as fast as you could to Tripoli and potentially running into issues along the way. And so yes, that was a success. And two years later, I was in Brazil covering the World Cup. And we now had the Tripoli war, which is a civil war between the militias and the government. And I think that's just ended now. And I got a phone call from the Canadian Embassy saying that they'd been stuck in Tripoli. And so they had 18 military within an area close protection team with them, but they weren't allowed to leave the city. So they'd never seen the coastal road out and didn't really have eyes on. So in the days leading up to that, the British Embassy got shot at every checkpoint between Tripoli and the Tunis border. So I went out with my fixer, and just spoke to the tribal elders in those regions at war and everywhere else. And it was actually just showing them courtesy and respect. Just let us know who we are, when we will come in, we were no threat. And again, it's that understanding the politics and the demographics, which was a success to that. And yeah, we got 18 military in four different maps safely back to back to Tunis.

Lisa: Wow.

Dean: But you know, I've never like they said in Hollywood, I never needed to dig up any of the weapons. They're still there. It’s more of an intelligence-led security thing. But I came home from that trip and my normal procedure would be to wash my kit, repack my bag and everything else, and then get ready for the next phone call. Yeah, one of my shirts was covered in blood. But I've been doing first aid and RTA. And I said to my wife, ‘Can we get the blood out of the shirt?’ And she said ‘Yes, but I’m more concerned why there's blood in there’. Totally what I just got yourself is like a throwaway comment. Yeah, you see, this was the second time in my life, I realised the pin dropped. There was something more mentally, I was just five years now from the military and I was trying to match the adrenaline rush that I had been, without coming to terms with the fact that I'd left and I didn't have that support network. If something had gone wrong, my friends were gonna come in and parachute for me. And so something had to change. And my daughter was young, and my wife now is, you know, she had a very successful property development business. And she said, ‘Look, this was actually all about communication’. She thought I wanted to go away. And I thought she needed me to go away.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. Because you've been used to that sort of setup for so long.

Dean: Yeah. And I've just been disconnected from society. I just thought that was the norm. You know, I was going to Somalia on my own. Yeah. Just doing–

Lisa: Were you not like, like most people listen to this, I mean, it's such a foreign world for the average person who's never been exposed to any of this. And I've never been anything military. I've been in some tricky situations, and self-caused, gone into shit places which I wasn't really for or shouldn't have been in. But for most people, this is a terrifying thought to even go to some of these places, let alone to do the job that you do. Did you never have a fear of like, do you not have the normal fear responses that most people have?

Dean: I think I do. I think the problem that we have in today's society is TV, is media. You know, it's very, you know, dramatised about these places. These places they go. I use Somalia as an example. I'll go there on my own and have a walk from the airport to the hotel, I won't– because that's where the business is. That's where I think things are happening. And then I've been, you know, yes, there's bad places and things go on. But it's no different from any city, you know. Yes, there's a bit of a terrorist threat and things. But I've been sent on a mission, south of Mogadishu, and in some of the most beautiful waters. I see parts of the country that people don't see. Now, I'm not naive to think there is no threat at all. You know, the success of a lot of my projects is having the right fixers and local influence. The world's very quick to tarnish certain societies with one brush because of what they've seen on TV. For me, they’re the most hospitable people. You know, the Canadian Embassy, the KCA Deutag and a few others, they wouldn't have been successful if it wasn't for the locals.

Lisa: The local people. Yeah.

Dean: And I think that's where somebody's security companies or individuals who think they can just come in with weapons and guys like me, very arrogant, they think they're going to do, to get away with it. And, and it's just showing respect, and humility. And that's my approach to it. So I am obviously conscious there is there is a friend, you know, I have friends who–

Lisa: And you can handle yourself there as well.

Dean: –things that, but yeah, I think that as long as–

Lisa: Yeah, I know what you'd be like when you go to some of these places, you have these preconceived ideas. And some of the places I've been to, like Niger. I went to Niger and you know, Niger, I don’t even know how to say it properly, Niger. Never got that right. That was one place where I landed there. And we were doing a 333k race through there. And I didn’t like go, ‘Holy shit, this place is pretty damn scary’. And you know, you're running across the desert on your own, and there was a lot of military, sort of oil problems. Chinese doing exploration in the desert against the wishes of the tribal people. So there was lots of military convoys coming through with all the arms and things. And you're a little girl running across the frickin’ desert on your own. It's pretty, pretty hairy moments here where you think you can just disappear, you know. But generally speaking, most of the places that you go to where you think are gonna be terrifying, aren't that terrifying. And the people are pretty amazing, too. And you've got to be aware of yourself and, you know.

Dean: Yeah. Having the responsibility, you know, those sort of places as well if they're running an event like that, and, you know, these countries want, you know, it's all about tourism and try and promote and put the country in a good light, you know, they'll do this. Yeah.

Lisa: This one was a bit out there, though. Like this was a French Foreign Legion guy who was running it. He didn't give a shit about anything except making money, right? We went into it naively. These particular ones thinking it was gonna be like the marathon on Saturdays or something. You know what I mean? And it wasn't. It was like 17 runners, nothing was organised. It was like, we ran out of water, we ran out of food, we, you know, I ended up getting food poisoning on top of it all. So that was a really– that's when I realised that most of the races are really super well run, but then there are the cowboys out there. And, you know, we were in their very hands really, you know, and we were lucky to get out the other side on that one. But so how do you like, for your wife? What's it like having your husband off doing God knows what, and having to keep the, you know, the business going, and the life going, and that fear of you being away?

Dean: Yeah. And I'm very fortunate. I've got a, my wife is part of the business anyway, the scoop is anyway, so she would always be doing intelligence bits anyway. So having her being part of that helps. Yeah. Well, rather, you just go in, and she's not knowing what's going on. Yeah. I mean, a part of that. And when we talk about the bike ride, you know, she was the campaign director that so–

Lisa: Sounds amazing.

Dean: –but gets involved in everything. Because then it's very easy to explain why you're doing something or why you're going away because, yeah, the full picture. But no, very, very fortunate to have an understanding– and she, you know, Alana's got a book coming out soon as she talks about why she fell in love with me, because I showed a world that she hadn't seen before. I mean, I was very, we had very similar mindsets, and like, achieve whatever goals you want. So for her to then say, ‘I couldn't do something,’ or you know, would go against, you know, what she believes in, and why we got into it. So obviously, now I'm a bit older and we've got kids and obviously I need to be a bit you know, she needs a little bit more. Yeah.

Lisa: She sounds like an amazing lady. I'll have to get her on.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, she is. She's got a cracking story herself.

Lisa: Yeah, she sounds like it. So I want to transition now into going into life after this chapter of your life, if you like, in becoming this professional adventurer. Because in what you're doing now, what you've got coming up, and the whole world record that you have. Tell us about that.

Dean: Yeah, so we actually stem from coming back from that Canadian Embassy job. You know, something had to change. In chapter 16 in the book, it’s called ‘Dead or Divorce’, so that's the stage we're talking about. Obviously, it's been five years since my leaving the military. I’ve sort of neglected my own sort of physical and mental well-being. I’ve been so fixated on work and bringing in money, and I take like a TRX with me around, just throw it in the suitcase. And I haven’t done any sort of cardiovascular stuff. My injured leg like now was two kilos lighter than my good leg, which is an awful wastage.

So I just that’s when for Alana said, “Come do property development.’ And that's what I did. I hung up my security boots and just bought a pushbike of farmers, and just cycled to and from the office. There's only about eight miles there and eight miles back. You know, nothing big but straightaway being physically active again, you know, I felt like there was a big, big weight off my shoulders, and that's what I did. I cycled to and from the office. But you can imagine my story, you know, sat in these architects and planners meet. So it’s about a month for my 40th birthday. So I was getting a midlife crisis around. What have I done with my life? I'm going to have a legacy and things. So I said, well, ‘I've always fancied doing a world record.’ And Alana said, ‘Well, what in?’ And I said, ‘Well, cycling is good, because it's not impacted– well, you need to consider my knee injury.’ And something that wasn't the knee injury wasn't going to compromise it.

So I said, ‘Well, what about cycling?’ And you know, being in Scotland, I was thinking maybe Aberdeen to Glasgow or something. And my wife then found the world's longest road, which runs in southern Argentina to northern Alaska. So for the listeners, it's probably equivalent to say it's the equivalent of cycling from London to Sydney. Yeah, 30,000 miles.

Lisa: And then another.

Dean: Yeah. Because of the curvature of the earth. So having only cycled 20 miles, this is what I did: I applied for the world record in it. We had looked at Cairo to Cape Town. But I– majority of my security work was in Africa. So I'd be in those days anyway. So for me, I wanted to, as part of the challenge, I wanted to see places that I am– someplace that I hadn't been to before and also because of where you started, and when you're finishing, you're going through all different temperatures and climates and things like that. And so Guinness came back. And the world record when I apply for it was 125 days. Six weeks later when it came back, and said you were successful with the application. And we've been beaten by eight days, the new world record was 117 days.

So that was my target. And my wife and I do a lot charity work. We have been doing since I met her really and, you know, do a lot of stuff with the military. You know, it's part of a special boat service, ambassador for Scotland. Legion, which is the oldest military charity in the UK. But I’m gonna name drop now massively. So Prince Harry and I are good friends, and we've known each other.

Lisa: Is he though?

Dean: Yeah. And as you’ve seen. And I've been friends about 14 years, met each other on a community training course. And, you know, he’d come to some of my events; I've been to some of his events. You know, I– in Mozambique, Tanzania had an intelligence fusion sale, which would identify smuggling routes for the ivory, you know, which I could then relay back to him. So he's doing a lot of stuff in the background. So I rang him up, and I said, ‘Look, I’m gonna cycle, the world's longest road, you know, what campaigns should we do it for?’ And this is back in 2016. So him and his brother and Kate, were just about to launch a mental health campaign called Heads Together in 2017. And he said, would I do it for that campaign? And I said, ‘Yes, of course’. So I now have the challenge of the campaign. And in the end, I set a target of a million pounds.

Lisa: Wow, that’s a big-ass target!

Dean: For me it had to be the enormity of the challenge to reflect how much you're trying to raise. You know, you couldn't– you know, you can't go– can’t say I'm going to raise a million pounds and run the London Marathon because it just doesn't add up. The size of the challenge and the size of the ask here, you know, was balanced. And also to add to that I'd never cycled before as well, which is even more of a–

Lisa: Mental.

Dean: Yes, yeah. So I did a train for a year, you can imagine what it is like trying to get sponsorship at the beginning.

Lisa: What the hell!

Dean: I will perform, break a record, and we'll record and raise a million pounds in mental health and a lot of them thought had mental health problems themselves.

Lisa: But you had a track record of what you've done? I mean, I would have taken you seriously, as far as the–

Dean: A lot of people say to me, ‘How do you get sponsorship?’ You know, I got– and it was just, it was the right messaging at the right time. You know, the Heads Together campaign is launched in the UK, and it's very much the topic of conversation. So a lot of these big corporates wanted to get behind.

Lisa: Wonderful. Yep, yeah.

Dean: So it was the right message at the right time. And, yeah, I got a great sponsor. And, you know, that was only about two months before setting off. You know, I funded it, funded 50,000 of my own money up until that. I had to believe in it

Lisa: And put something on the line?

Dean: Yep. Yeah. So. So that's what I did. Yeah, I mean, I set off on the first of February 2018, the– when I was doing all the early stages when I was doing the planning, and I'd never cycled with I just took a military set of orders, put it on there and just crossed out ammunition. And then as I started learning about saving, I then introduced that into the plan. But there's things that, you know, there are things that are out of my control, like natural disasters, coups, third party influence. So the world record was 117 days, but I was aiming for 110. And it wasn’t– I was going to beat it by a week.

Lisa: You’re in that buffer.

Dean: Yeah that buffer. The buffer, the fudge they call it. Encounter that is eating into the fudge and not your challenge. So that's why, where I set off aiming for 110 days. You know, I was very fortunate to, being in the military and worked in the desert, the Arctic, and the jungle, and things that I've never done on the bike. I had to then simulate those situations. So the Atacama Desert in Chile is the driest non popular desert in the world. It's 47 degrees. What I decided to do so, I went out to Dubai and did two weeks heat training in Dubai. The altitude in Ecuador, of cycling. You know, the biggest climbs in Tour de France ranges in 21, 23 kilometers, minus 67 kilometers and sea level to four and a half thousand meters. So I had to train altitude. So I know that on the day of the event, you know, you do 8 to 10 hours on the bike.

Lisa: Altitude. Yeah.

Dean: So, yeah, I did that. And there's a famous bike ride in the UK called Land's End to John O'Groats.

Lisa: Yes, I know that one.

Dean: Yeah, so I did that twice. I never mean to sound arrogant, but for me, it was a training ride and actually it’s training ride because the challenge was 15 Land's End to John O'Groats back to back. So if I couldn't do one, how was I going to do 15?

Lisa: Yes. It's funny how your perception changes, the bigger your current goal that you're going for, the other stuff becomes small, but what I've learned too is that it goes the other way as well. When you stop doing the big stuff, your horizon comes back in pretty quickly. And then you know, it can be gone the other way.

Dean: You can never replicate what you're going to do with some of the ultra marathons, you won’t go run the exact distance.

Lisa: No, no, you're running near it.

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Dean: Yeah, what I got from doing those Land's End to John O'Groats, you know, I did about nine days, is the fact that the first four or five days are always whether you're at your peak, or wherever you're below peak is always going to be hard and then by the end of the first week, your body then knows what you're asking of it.

Lisa: I found that like too, when I did– because I ran through New Zealand, and I did you know, 2250ks in 42 days, which I was aiming for 33 days, but I had again, I didn't add in the fudge, did I? And I got slower and slower and more injuries and so on. So it took me a bit longer than I was planning. But at the two-week point was when I was at that absolute, like I don't know how to take the next step point, you know. And somehow I had to drop the kilometers a little bit, but then I was able to– my body actually got better from that point on. And I would never have believed if I hadn't lived through it. I thought I was like, absolutely, I don't know the how I'm going to take the next step to then actually the end of the 42 days being like, ‘I could carry on now’. You know, it was quite a phenomenal thing to go through. And I've heard other expeditions that athletes go through the same sort of thing that it bottoms out at the worst point. I've got a couple of mates who ran across the Sahara, and I mean, right, right across the Sahara, 7,000 kilometers. And they said the same thing that they you know, two weeks, and they were thought, you know, ‘We're about to die here. We're not gonna make it.’ And then it's sort of you know, and you have the ups and downs. But if you can push through that mentally, that point you seem to come through it.

Dean: Yeah, you do. I think, you know, for me, I set off from sort of going back slightly when I was doing my research, I, you know, was reading books and magazines learning about cycling. You know, it evolved so much since I was a young boy in a BMX, and I wasn't getting the information I really wanted. So I spoke to the previous record holders, and they're very open, which was great, really, they're very receptive. but they– you know, one of the things we do in the military, especially in the special forces is, it's like a hot debrief. So when, as soon as you've done a job or operation, you come. Before you get, sort yourself out, you know, we'll sit down, and we'll ask three questions: ‘What worked? What didn't work? And if you're going to do it again, what would you do differently?’ So I just asked that question to the previous record holders, and all their issues were in South and Central America: bureaucracy, the borders, languages, first to the base. So they all started in North America, and it was the second half of the challenge which had the issues, right. So I turned on its head, start in the south and get those issues out the way early. So one thing I was quite proud of– just because everyone did it that way didn't mean it was the right way.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dean: But yeah, but I set off from Southern Argentina in the first week, you know, relentless winds, it was like 40 mile an hour, approximate speed. I've never known anything like it. But once that had– I had targets each day, you know what I had to hit each day and I was hitting those targets. I think by the end of the first week, I was 39 miles behind target, but my target is still a week ahead of the world record, right? Yeah, yeah. The weather sort of changed for the better and now the winds have abated. I got through Peru, I got tailwind all the way through Peru. That's 2500 kilometers of tailwind. We did you know, I crashed the bike in Chile, I got food poisoning in Peru, you know, coming out with issues and, you know, got to Ecuador, got the big climb-ins. But before they're gone on the challenge, I've never done more than 150 miles on the road, on the road. I've done 10 hours on a turbo trainer, but never done more than 150 miles. By the week four when I was in Peru, anything less than 150 miles wasn't enough for me. I was physically and mentally stronger as I went. I started at 90 kilos. I was too big.

Lisa: Yeah, but I but you needed it.

Dean: Yeah, but I knew from my time in the military that special forces selection six months long, you don't start day 1 100%. You carry that timber and weight, and then that will shed and you'll get fit. And that's what I did. And you know, when I finished I weighed 78 kilos. Almost 12 kilos. And you know you have to– it’s almost like a polar expedition, you're losing weight from the start. So you just need to try and try and keep it on. But I got to Cartagena on day 48 on March 21. That took 10 days off the previous world record for South America. But that wasn't the world record. And a lot of people called me said, ‘Oh,’ they said, ‘The pressure’s off.’ I said, ‘That's not world record. Call it Brucie bonus. That was a Brucie bonus or a marker to aim for rather than looking at the full challenge. As you know, you don't look at the– Right down into–

Lisa: You get overwhelmed pretty quick.

Dean: What do you do on the flight? So I did. I broke it into countries into days, and then broke the days into four stages. Food and hydration were paramount. So just have a big breakfast. And then just cycle as fast as I could for two hours. You know, I didn't then– just get off the bike for 30 minutes and have food and water and then I'm back on the bike. I was disciplined in my time into 30 minutes, 30 minutes and then chat to someone or the llama you know, he was like, ‘Back on the bike’.

Lisa: Okay.

Dean: That creepage thing gets bigger. And then it was just, look at the next two hours. Look at the next stage. I didn't look at the afternoon, didn’t look at the next day. And before you've done it, you've done a day, you've done a week, you've done a world record. And so that's how I did it. So I was just doing four training rides a day, I wasn't doing a world record.

Lisa: I love it. And you just chunked it down into bite sized pieces that you could make–

Dean: That you can manage. And then I– you see people when they do that– a lot of people do their challenges in the lab. Well, you know, 10 miles behind today, you know what, I'll catch you out tomorrow, but you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. You could have another bad day and then be 20 to 30 miles behind. So for me, to be in the right headspace, mentally, I made sure I hit my targets or I was ahead of targets. After that first week, I was 39 miles behind target. From then on, I was way ahead. So I was in a good headspace at the end of the day, knowing that I was where I should be. Because as you probably accounted with your New Zealand, when you know that you've set a target and you're not– may not get there. You can start messing–

Lisa: I did, yeah. Yeah, it does. Yep.

Dean: So for me, I always say to people, ‘Just stay on the bike or do those– run an extra two or three, just hit the target you set for the day because you, mentally you're going to be in the better.’

Lisa: You can get that nice dopamine hit, that neurotransmitter dopamine, it gives you that little reward and that motivates you to do the next round and keeps you going.

Dean: You know, next morning you know you're not right, I've got to do 30 miles before, your way should be all ahead.

Lisa: Overwhelming you away when you're certain to go backwards. It's yeah, I found that brilliant.

Dean: And then I used to trick myself in the fact that, or give myself a treat, so I had like four stages for South– North America we'll talk in a minute, that’s a different way of psyching, and but for South America because of the security issues, you know, I had a support team and a documentary team and we were very much risk averse, more risk averse than myself. We stay on but I had to consider their welfare. And so we were saying– I'd say go from first light to last light. So that was my depth. That was my cycling period. And the– sorry yeah, I broke it into four stages. So in the morning was fine because I just had a breakfast. So the first two hours, I'd be able to gauge how long I would be on the bike for the day. Because unlike when other people go for bike rides at home, they'll go for a ride and they'll do a loop and they'll come home. So at some point they'll have a headwind or a tailwind or a side wind. But on this ride, if I had a headwind, it was all day. So that would really gauge up to the rest of the day. So that was the first stage. The second stage I had lunch to look forward to. And the third stage– sorry, the fourth stage. I had the end of day to look forward to. The third stage I had nothing to look forward to. So I would make sure– so my look forward was a can of Coke or an ice cream. Yeah, just something simple. And something to look forward to after the two hours.

Lisa: Yeah, let's get reward thing. You just need it little, ‘Yeah, I’m going for something.’

Dean: ‘They’ll arrive in, oh, just another two hours after that.’

LisA: I'd find that sometimes my reward, and this is getting like pretty sad like, yeah, ‘I'm gonna be allowed to go to the toilet,’ you know, like, ‘I'm gonna have a wee’. Like shit! That’s pretty, pretty shit when you actually, when that's your reward.

Dean: It's probably looking with a bit more–

Lisa: What the hell. And so, you know, because I watched the little short. Can people watch the documentary? Is it out yet? is it available?

Dean: No. So we've got the footage, we've got all the footage together. We– the sort of plan is maybe because we're talking about the next challenge shortly here, rolling onto that and doing a double. And they do it through a series of them. Where we were sitting on that, which is good. But yeah, I took, you know, a broader South America record, which is great. From the cycling perspective, you know, it was a great decision going south-north. From a logistics perspective, it wasn't. We're having to change vehicles in every country in South America to slow me up. So we bought an RV and a 4x4, which was going to get shipped from Fort Lauderdale to Panama. And that would then take us all the way to Alaska, because I had to fly from Colombia to Panama, there’s a Darién gap, which you can't cross. This is the only bit you have to fly. And I was in Ecuador, two weeks before my wife Alana rang me, told me, the vehicles hadn't been loaded on the container in Florida. So my wife, my PA, and a couple my friends, I think it forced them, they flew out and they drove the vehicles 4000 miles in eight days from Florida through Mexico all the way from Central America to Panama.

Lisa: This location.

Dean: So when I broke the record in the morning, flew across, they came in an hour late and handed over the keys. So that then really helped us for the second part of the challenge. And I got to North America on day 70. And I was 14 days ahead of that. Perfect, you know? Okay, you know, i can take the foot off the gas, or I can have a day's rest here or there. Then my wife kept ringing me and you know, she's very good in keeping all those distractions away from me. So my initial thought was the children, or something wrong with the kids. And then she told me we've been kindly invited to Harry and Megan's wedding. Changed the dynamics completely of the challenge. So you get home, I had to be finished by day 102, which is 15 days ahead of the challenge. So going into the challenge, going into the phone call, I was 14 days ahead. 10 minutes later, I'm now a day behind.

Lisa: Oh my God.

Dean: It doesn’t matter what you've done, it's been taken from you. So yeah, mixed, mixed emotion cycling off from that phone call.

Lisa: Yeah, like excited for the wedding. Shit! I’ve got to go faster.

Dean: And then when I got to Lubbock in Texas next day, we have 60 mile an hour winds and tornadoes, so I was stuck for another 24 hours. So I was now two days behind and there was an app on your phone called Windy TV. I don't know if you've come across it. It gives you the strength and direction of the winds every hour for the next two weeks. But 95% accurate real time I stepped away from the challenge when looking at Windy TV, but unlike South America when I sit outside first light, last light, in North America we had the luxury of security. Cycle at night. So I took advantage of that and I just played. To get out at Lubbock, I just cycled 340 miles in 36 hours to miss the next weather window coming in and just play chess with Mother Nature through North America. I had 17 days planned, and I cycled in 11 and a half days in Canada. We also use it to my advantage: I picked up a tailwind in Cheyenne in Wyoming and did 260 miles in 11 hours and 10,000 feet of climbing because I had a 50 mile an hour tailwind.

Lisa: And some luck and some–

Dean: Yeah exactly. Though it’s not about having a plan but having to change the plan to the situation on the ground and then I got a week outside and I was that, right? This will record smashed. I'll be back in time for this wedding unless I get eaten by a grizzly; we’re in Canada and Alaska. And then I was made aware about this professional cyclist who's got three other endurance world records. He's about 26 years old, sponsored by old Red Bull, all the brands, and he come out on social media that day and said that he was going to do the Pan-American Highway in August and be the first man to do 100 days. Dynamic’s completely for me so I just cycled. You know, every time I thought I hit my objective, my objective then kept moving. So I am, I cycle with– for 22 hours in the last 30 hours in minus 18 to come in maybe nine days, 12 hours and 56 minutes. So it wasn't the original plan. It was so fast. Yeah. And I couldn't tell anyone I've been invited to the wedding. You can see friends comment that, ‘He's picked this right up, you know, he's now– he's going,’ and people said, ‘He's rushing back for his mate’s wedding.’ I couldn't tell them. Yeah, so I just had to do it. But my family were in line and the kids had flown into Prudhoe Bay, which is an oil field on the top of the Arctic Ocean. They'd come in with all these oil workers. They’d never seen kids there, so I knew they were there at the end. So that was that final bit of motivation.

Lisa: Oh yeah. And when you're in that last spurt before the thing, it's like, let’s just get this shit done. Get over the damn line.

Dean: Like the last day, last two days, I had 250 miles to do. And I thought well, I'll do 150 miles a day. I mean, and this leaves me 100 miles in the last day. And I'm well under the 100 days. So I did the first 50 miles and got to this roadblock at noon. And they were at, ‘No, you can't pass until eight o'clock tonight.’ So they took eight hours off my streak. So I got into the RV. And again, I just put pen to paper even on the last day. But thankfully because it landed at midnight sun, it doesn't get dark. And I said, ‘Well, it's eight o'clock tonight, I will cycle until I get there.’ And I cycled at seven o'clock the next evening. But doing about eight, nine mile an hour because the winds were so strong. I was taking in coffee every couple of hours to stay hydrated. So even to the very last day, the plan to get–

Lisa: That’s insane.

Dean: So yeah, we crossed the line, you know, from any cyclists out there, you know, it worked out 99 days. So ninety– five days off. Three to get where you’re into and two logistics. There's 94 days of cycling, which is 147 miles a day. And I burned– I lost 12 kilos in weight. And the app speed was 16.8 mile an hour, which is fast because it was just short, sharp sessions. And more and more impressively was the money we raised. We raised over $1.2 million, or ₤900,000.

Lisa: You’re kidding me! That is insane.

Dean: Mental. Yeah.

Lisa: Congratulations.

Dean: That was through corporate donors and sponsors. And I might seem like those guys, showing no emotion, they like, see people suffering, with their hands in their pockets. But for me, I was trying to promote, like the unrelenting pursuit of excellence if you're going to do something you do it to the best of your ability. So me crying on the camera wasn't gonna happen.

Lisa: There was a few tantrums on there, right?

Dean: But that was it, yeah. So I'd never looked, you know, we couldn't– we came back two days later, we had the royal wedding was sort of then for me, overshadowed everything I did you know, all the plan was like, ‘How was the wedding?’ I was that, ‘Really? I'm just–’

Lisa: That's a bit sad really, isn't it?

Dean: I wish I'd had a bit of time to sort of absorb what I've done and achieved. You know, I was still just getting used to being with my family. Never mind–

Lisa: Harry and Megan they kind of waited another week for you to get your shit together.

Dean: No press. No revenues. No ads, you know, we talked about, you know, as well, but you have depression when you come back, when things taper things like that. You know, for me, I had two highs in one week. And then it was like, pfft! We had a big fundraiser six weeks later and Harry came, you know, did a Q&A session on stage and we raised it.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dean: And that was my sort of short-term focus after the bike ride. You know, I was supposed to taper my training and I did a 10-mile bike ride to the coffee shop. And you know, when I came back, I'm very objective. I need to have a target or something to go for. So for, just to go cycling 10 miles wasn't– on the way back then these cyclists spotted me. I just needed to put on my PB for that strays, I knew I wasn't actually going to be taping. So I just put the bike in the garage.

Lisa: It's really either, like, if we can just touch on the mental health side of it afterwards. Because, that's something that I've found after every big thing that I've done, especially when it's been overseas environment and some out of place or something. You come back and you're like, you come back to your family, especially when your family not involved, and then like everybody else is just going about their normal business and you're like, just like, ‘Do you know what I just experienced?’ And everyone's like, ‘Oh, that's nice, darling.’ And you might, you know, that's really– I found that quite devastating at times, when your family just didn't get in, you feel like a fish out of water.

So I have this bit of a crisis of luck with– and you’re saying you also have a crisis of like, ‘W8hat is my, what is my role in life?’ Like when you got out of the army, it's like, ‘Well hang on, my whole bloody safety net of who the heck I am and the framework that I built is just suddenly been taken from me. Now, what the heck I am?’ And then you've gone and become this adventure athlete and doing this crazy sort of stuff. So you've filled that, that void, if you like, and in like, with my mum's story, now with the same book name that we've got, like that was Relentless it was– I was suddenly thrown into this new world of like, I'm no longer an F, you know, I couldn't be a full time more I was. I was always working, but I was an athlete at the same time.

And now it was just mum, you know, like, full bore to rehabilitate her or she's going to die. So, but you adapt. Everything becomes the ability of the human mind and body, you go through a transition phase, but then you learn to adapt. And some, you know, for a couple of years, I found it hard. It's like, ‘Who the heck am I if I'm not that anymore, and I'm not doing that anymore and I’m not doing that? But you have other priorities. You've got kids now and stuff, and you don't want to be in dangerous situations involving–

Dean: Yeah, I was probably used to that. Because at the time in the military, you know, when we were, it was the same sort of situation, you'd be away on tour, and you come back, and everyone's just going back there to their normal day to day business. And it's– there's no point in trying to talk. So I was used to that anyway, from the military, and in the private security. I think we're, um, I'm lucky with Alana and the kids is that they get fully immersed in it. They're part of that project as well, you know. Our daughter cut her hair, she had really long hair, cut her hair and raised ₤1000 for the charity. So they really go all in everything. Alana does the campaign and, and the fundraising. So it's not me and then the family, coming back to the family. They're in that with me. So I think I'm very lucky.

Lisa: You are pretty lucky, I reckon, with your family, you've got a pretty good combo with your wife. And–

Dean: Then I believe that anyone, and I don't mean to sound arrogant, anyone can break a world record if you take away all those distractions, the mortgage, and things like that. And then who's looking after the kids who's picking the kids up from the school and all you've got to concentrate on is your–

Lisa: I totally hear you, because I think that's the fix, the actual key to it, you know. when you've got the luxury and it is a luxury now not having that luxury to be able to be a you know, selfish athlete, who can do what, and can focus fully. And then you can, of course you can do crazy, amazing things. Unfortunately, life does come and chuck, you know, curveballs at you. And you have to go with the flow you know, but it doesn't negate what I've decided too is that I’m reaching an age now, you know, like my body started to break the pieces by about 48 things have gone pear-shaped. Is that you know, it doesn't negate what you did. And you know, because you know you sort of have this mentality ‘I’m a has-been I've been there, done it’. No, it's just like I could use a new stage in your life. And what is the challenge now? And there are some other big challenges that you're on. And you've got a big– speaking of big challenges, you've got some other crazy mission coming up. Tell us about that.

Dean: So my unique selling point in the athlete world is I take a sport or discipline I've never done before. So, you know, we're going to– we’re actually going back slightly when we- when our sponsored marketing team did the SWOT analysis on the lockdown. Right?

Lisa: There's mum ringing in the middle of my bloody podcast.

Dean: We’ll end this. The strengths, the weaknesses, the opportunities, and threats. And the only weakness it came out was my arrogance towards the cycling community. But, you know, thankfully, no one ever said that, you know, but I took that as a strength. You know, it's that fire in the belly to say, ‘Well, you know, that's what they think then’. But no, look, no one ever said that innovation was good. But then, you know, now, I've enjoyed cycling. Now I'm going to be arrogant towards the kayaking community. I just say that back. The kayaking community really, really great in coming around on this challenge. So I’ve cycled the world's longest road. The plan is now, or the plan is next year, first of February, I set off, is to kayak the world's longest river from source to sea, from Rwanda to Egypt, which has never been done before as in paddled from one end to the other. There’s been stages, but never completely. So 4,280 miles is that long. But unlike the last challenge which was promoting mental health, you know, will still always be an ambassador and push the importance of physical activity and mental health. You know, this one, my wife's very passionate on modern slavery, human trafficking and–

Lisa: Yeah, wow.

Dean: –doing a lot in that area. But I didn't want to channel myself down just that one topic. So I've left it open. And so we're going to talk about poverty, pollution, sustainability, conservation.

Lisa: Amazing.

Dean: Six-episode documentary, and really, for me, promote Africa. I, we talked about the security industry and how people see a continent from what they see on the TV. For me, it's my favorite continent. I love Africa. I know the people don't have two coins to rub together, but they're probably the most friendliest, happiest, and hospitable people.

Lisa: Totally.

Dean: I really want to promote that as well. And unlike the bike ride, which is mostly physical this is, you know, there's a lot more skill involved in this. You know, it’s everything from flatwater to grade six waterfalls.

Lisa: Yeah, isn't there some big waterfalls and stuff?

Dean: You got crocodiles, you got hippos, you got civil war in South Sudan. So it's gonna, it's gonna have it's gonna have some issues along the way.

Lisa: You're going to hit some more adventures, and I can't wait to hear about those. I have to actually connect you ahead on the podcast. Last week, a lady by the name of fellow countrywoman of yours, Laura Penhaul. And Laura is, she rode across the Pacific. And she's a bit like you. She didn't, she never rode before, when she took on this challenge. So she did it with three other ladies, she got a team together. You have to have a listen. I'd love to connect you guys because she might get I mean, it's a different rowing, quaking, but you know, pretty, pretty phenomenal. Lady is–

Dean: Amazing. Yeah, no, please do. Yeah, but I've left this one open if anyone wants to come join me at any stage, more than welcome. You know, we approached Guinness about being a world record and you know, Guinness, no one's ever done it before. So they just took the Amazon guidelines and dropped it on this, but Amazon's a different river. Amazon's quite flat and they said ‘Oh, you're allowed to use one boat.’ But if that was the case, you’re carrying the boat about halfway around so we then changed it to self propelled by paddle which means I can use either a ocean ski, a creek boat, or a raft. But actually then, in reflection, looking at you know, when you do Guinness World Records, there's so many guidelines you need to adhere to. Which is fine when you're cycling on a road or something. When you're paddling the river which has never been done before. I mean, there's Civil War, there's animals that are gonna eat you and things that, you don't want to be– you're gonna have to make some key decisions and you don't want your decisions to be blurred because you've got to stick to these guidelines. So actually, we just push that out and said ‘Well, we're not going to do it for world record.’ Not at first anyway. We'll collect the data, but I don't want that to sort of hinge long decision.

Lisa: And I think it stands on its own, Guinness World Record or not, you know, like that's not– I don't know, it's not important. This is about the actual beast you're gonna go on this crazy adventure.

Dean: Yeah.

Lisa: So we can– do you know– I'm you know– I'm just absolutely fascinated by your mindset and the way that you approach things and all the stuff that you do and I'd love to have you on at another stage in the future. And your wife. Because I think you need a double episode to find out what the hell makes a lady like that tick as well. But where can people follow you, get involved with your project, the next one that you've got coming out, your book, etcetera?

Dean: So I'm obviously on social media. You know, social media for me was a taboo when I did the last challenge because Special Forces. But I now understand it’s a platform where you need to be sort of promoting. So I am on Instagram as @deanstott and then I am on Twitter @DeanStottSBS, and I’m on Facebook. And so I'll start, you know later on in the year you will start seeing posts of me training and you know, talking about my nutrition and things I didn't really do before because I didn't think people were interested in that, and in the mindsets, we add that. And then the website www.deanstott.com.

Lisa: Dean Stott with two T’s.

Dean: We've got the frogman on there and then you can then– and we're going to be posting up there as well. You can buy the book from there or you can get the book from Amazon or audio.

Lisa: And it's got the same title as mine so buy both Relentless books, people, when you're on Amazon or wherever the heck you are, both buy Relentless. Buy Dean Stott’s one and my one, that would be really, really good. Dean, is there any last words that you want to share like to people out there listening, who are just over– like to look at someone like you and they just go, ‘Well, you know, he's amazing and I could never be like that.’ What's your words to them?

Dean: Yeah, you know, I always say don't compare yourself to other people. You know, the problem you have nowadays is social media and the people like, ‘Well, I can't do that’, you know, well you’re not that person. You're unique. And you know, I did it when I was doing the cycling. People out there, ‘Look at Mark Beaumont.’ I'm not Mark Beaumont and things like that. So don't worry about what other people are doing. Just focus on yourself. You know, I always say anticipation is worse than participation.

Lisa: Yeah, I love that. I've quoted that from you.

Dean: A lot of people will tell you why they can't do it. And, you know, just block out those out. And just take it in bite sizes, what I say. You know, if you're gonna, for example, a marathon 26 miles. You wouldn't go try and do 26 miles, you probably wouldn't achieve it. I mean, you'd be so deflated and your self-esteem is– but just set yourself a manageable target: five kilometers, hit that and then you just grow from there.

Lisa: Yeah. There's some fabulous advice. Dean, thank you so much for your time today. You're an absolute superstar. I, you know, or have your, you know what you've done. And thanks for, you know, raising so much money for charities and doing good in the world and being a positive force out there in the world. I think it's really, really important. So thanks.

Dean: Thank you. You’re more than welcome to come and join me anytime on the now.

Lisa: Oh, man. Now I would love to do that. Mum might have something to say.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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So many things seem to be beyond our control in this fast-paced world. As a result, we've developed anxieties and worries that we carry every day. With their weight, we may find it more challenging to achieve even the most minor goals. So, how do you get through these thoughts and feelings? How can you reach success and improve your well-being?

Carly Taylor joins us today in this episode to teach us how to deal with things outside of our control. Through her discussion, you'll hopefully learn about how to recognise and optimise your thoughts and emotions for your greater good. Carly also shares about helpful tools she's discovered and practised, including Morita therapy and Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT).

If you want to deal with the daily pressures of your life healthily, you'll learn helpful things from this episode.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how to manage your thoughts and feelings to live a fuller life. 2. Gain some insights on how to recognise and manage seemingly uncontrollable situations. 3. Discover what ‘being present’ means to you.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * More Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Elena Seranova + 189: Increasing Your Longevity with Elena Seranova * Connect with Carly: Instagram | Carly Taylor Coaching * Visit the Mind, Body, Brain and start optimising your psychological capital for productivity, resilience, and peak performance with the 8-week programme.

Episode Highlights [04:32] Carly's Background * Carly is a mindset coach who follows multiple Japanese ideologies. * There are three Japanese ideologies she knows about: Morita, Kaizen, and Naikan. However, she only mainly practices the Psychology of Action of Morita Therapy. She also includes Stoicism and commitment therapy. * Kaizen therapy is making changes incrementally yet continuously. It involves encouraging yourself to become better. On the other hand, Naikan therapy exercises the art of self-reflection. Both can improve your well-being. * She had backgrounds in music and advertising. These supplied her with the skills to help other people. * Her husband learned about a 10-day course. The next thing she knew, she was on the way to Vermont to attend it.

[10:27] The Reason for Automatic and Anxiety-Inducing Thoughts * Assess which things in your life are within your control. * You cannot control automatic thoughts and emotions. They pop out when you encounter a situation. However, you can manage them and improve your well-being. * You have to monitor and observe your thoughts. Assess whether or not they are helpful. Some negative automatic thoughts used to be beneficial for survival during ancient times, but not anymore. * The amygdala is responsible for these emergency responses and automatic thoughts. The amygdala can also help when you need to make now-or-never decisions. * To balance it out, the prefrontal cortex lets you analyse whether these automatic thoughts are logically sound.

[18:50] How to Approach Things Out of Your Control * Most people worry about what other people think about them. * Back then, we had to empathise with other people's needs to thrive within a tribe or community. * Nowadays, we have too many connections through social media. We get pressured because of the appearances our friends and acquaintances share online. * Assess whether your thoughts and feelings are helpful. Redirect your energy and be productive to improve your well-being. * Make room for your thoughts and feelings. Tools like breathing and exercise can help you improve your well-being. Listen to the episode to learn more helpful tools.

[21:09] The Use of Comforts and Discomforts of Life * Morita therapy uses two opposing thoughts: the desire to live fully and the desire to be secure and comfortable. * Even successful events give you a level of discomfort and anxiety. * We seek comfort all the time. Sometimes we may not even want to go through the emotional, physical, and financial challenges. * But you can take the discomfort with you. You can coexist with it while still achieving great things.

[24:39] Teaching Yourself to Improve Your Well-Being * Suppressing your fears or intense emotions will get you stuck. * Practice getting uncomfortable or harvesting discomfort. * Start with minor and straightforward tasks so you can have more control. Do it incrementally so you can train yourself to become more resilient. Do this to improve your well-being. * You'll learn how to improve your well-being in more complicated situations. * Daily rituals are essential. It can be as simple as having a cold shower, much like Carly does.

[28:02] Know Your Limits * Pushing the limits can be a great thing. * However, psychology and biology set a limit. You have to work within this limit. You may get burnout instead of crossing this line. * You can't always go through hard times. It defeats the purpose of life, which needs to be a dynamic journey. * You can still prevent adverse outcomes from happening by staying healthy. You can improve your well-being.

[31:13] Reflection Exercises * A simple yet powerful question is, ‘What would you do differently?’ * Spending more time with the family is usually the top 1 thing people want to do. * Think about the regrets you may have when you are on your deathbed and act on them. Aligning with your most significant priorities will let you live a fuller life. * Take every opportunity to be with someone before it's too late.

[34:54] Helpful Routines * Carly follows a waking-up-early challenge. She tries to avoid phones and computers and instead enjoys silence in her mornings. * Carly also journals about minor things. She remembers the little things she appreciated from yesterday. * You should be able to pay to enjoy good things more to improve your well-being, or at least in the same way as you linger on with painful thoughts. * The simple silence helps. It can help instead redirect your attention from stressful thoughts and improve your well-being. * You can calm down and find what you're in control of instead of what you can't. Then, you can achieve calmness and peace of mind.

[44:33] Being Present Makes All the Difference * A study found how people were happier when they were living in the moment. A wandering mind achieves the opposite of this. * It matters to focus your full attention on what you are doing. Finish your inherent task at first, even if they're boring. * Sometimes your brain will tell you you're not fit for the task at hand. But know that these thoughts are often your excuses preventing you from improving your well-being. * Prioritise the most urgent and important tasks first before moving to the following systems and processes. * Don't feel guilty about giving time to the people who matter in your lifetime. They are also important.

[52:35] Final Thoughts * Having a purpose-driven life instead of an emotionally-driven life can improve your well-being. * Your purpose can be minor things in the moment, like cleaning the kitchen or learning new technology.

[54:02] Carly and Paul's 8-Week Program * Carly and Paul do weekly sessions every Tuesday and reflect on the significant aspects of their lives. * They use an app where you can check on your daily rituals.

7 Powerful Quotes from the Episode 'I use the modalities of Japanese psychology and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and I also throw in a bit of Stoicism as well. Because all three of those modalities are just so intertwined. And it's just what I find incredible is what's relevant today is what was relevant back 2000 years ago.'

‘I then looked at life coaching, and it kind of didn't really resonate with me, then by the time I kind of was, you know, trying to figure out what direction I was going to go that my background is completely different.'

'I mean, we're all individuals. And we're productive, you know, from when we are born right up to our experiences, right up until this present moment.'

'But what makes us unique is that we're able to observe our thoughts. And if we can create that space between us and our thoughts, we can look at that thought more in an analytical way rather than in an emotional way.'

'So that's sort of the acceptance part of what's in our control, what's not in our control, and the big one is those thoughts and emotions.'

'Well, I mean, what other people think is a huge one for the majority of my clients, it is the number one fear if you want to call it or or anxiety or worry is what others think of them.'

'But it's that sort of everyday anxiety that we feel. And it's this, sort of focus on the discomfort and wanting to get rid of it. And when that's intense, this is not easy.'

About Carly Carly Taylor is a certified nutritionist, health trainer and personal coach. She is also a qualified Japanese Psychology therapist who applies Morita therapy and Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT).

She shares her tools and learnings through her Mindset Coaching. As a guarantee to her clients, Carly also uses the tools she teaches in her coaching sessions. Through her coaching, she helps people change their mindset and break barriers that used to hold them back. As a result, her clients develop skills and achieve success despite their situations.

With her passionate approach towards research, she continues to learn about new practices and tools to navigate life. Along with her husband, Paul, Carly also helps groups of people achieve peak performance through the Mind, Body, Brain Performance Institute.

If you want to learn more about Carly and her coaching approach, you can visit her website or Instagram.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn new tools to improve their well-being.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back, everybody to Pushing the Limits. And this week, I have the lovely Carly Taylor to guest. Carly is the wife of Paul Taylor, who was also recently on this program, and who I absolutely loved. The amazing woman who is with Paul is Carly Taylor. Now Carly is an ACT therapist and a Morita psychology therapist. So what the heck is that all about, you might be thinking. Well, she's somebody that helps you if you have problems with anxiety, with depression, with overthinking, all of those things that many of us really deal with. So today's episode is all around giving you the tools to help with all those from the point of view of ACT therapy or Acceptance Commitment Therapy, as well as the Japanese psychology, Morita therapy. Now, Carly is also a qualified nutritionist, a certified personal trainer, and a certified health coach. She brings over 10 years’ experience in the area of behavior change. So I'm really hopeful that you're going to enjoy this episode with Carly. She's a very lovely lady, and she has a lot to give you. So enjoy that.

Before we head over to the show, make sure that you check out our epigenetics program. This is our flagship program that we use as a framework for all people that we're doing health coaching with, the people that we're doing running coaching with. And it's really helping you optimise your genes. So learning about what your genes are all about, who you are specifically, unique you, and then optimising you. So in all areas, we're looking at mood and behavior, we're looking at your dominant hormones. We look at the career path that may be right for you, we look at the way your brain thinks, at what time of the day you should be doing different activities. We're also, of course, looking at exercise and nutrition specific to your gene. So if you want to find out more about that program, head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the ‘Work With Us’ button, and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program. Come and find out all about it, or drop me a line at support@lisatamati.com, and we'd love to help you with it. We do run webinars so we can send you some information on it. It takes a little bit to get your head around, but I tell you this is the future of personalised health. No longer is it a one size fits all approach. This is all specific to you. It's very scientific and very evidenced-based. So I hope you'll come and join us on that program. We've taken literally now hundreds and hundreds of people through this program, and it gives us fantastic results. We also have a course, our online run training system that's personalised, customised to your specific goals at runninghotcoaching.com. Find out all about the package and what's involved there. This is not, by no means, just for elite athletes. I don't want people to think that it's just for ultra-marathon runners or just for people that are doing crazy adventures. This is for you. If you're just getting off the couch, if you're doing your first K. It's also for you if you are doing your hundredth marathon, ultra-marathon or marathon. So find out all about that at runninghotcoaching.com. Right now, over to the show with the lovely Carly Taylor.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. It's fantastic to have you back with me again. Today, I have the lovely Carly Taylor with me. Welcome to the show, Carly, it's fantastic to have you.

Carly Taylor: Oh, thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

Lisa: Super excited. Carly is the famous wife of Paul Taylor, who I've had recently on my podcast too, and who I really connected with. I think he's an absolute legend, your husband. What he's doing is absolutely—I think he's probably as crazy as me, if not worse.

Carly: And he’s passionate, I think.

Lisa: And is passionate, and silly, and crazy. So I thought, ‘Who is this amazing woman that is with Paul Taylor? Because she'd have to be probably something special.’ I started researching into what you do. And I thought, ‘Oh, I have to have you on the show as well.’ So welcome, Carly. It's really exciting to have you. Today, we're going to talk about Morita therapy, and ACT therapy. I'll let you explain what all that is and give us a bit of your background. But can you just tell us who you are, where you're from, and all that sort of jazz?

Carly: I do one-on-one coaching. I'm a mindset coach, but with a bit of a twist because I use the modalities of Japanese psychology, and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and I also throw in a bit of Stoicism as well. Because all three of those modalities are just so intertwined. It's just—what I find incredible is what's relevant today is what was relevant back 2,000 years ago, and also in the Eastern, in the Japanese psychology as well. So with Morita—so the Japanese psychology there were three components to it. So it’s Morita therapy, which is also known as the Psychology of Action. Which is kind of unusual because you kind of think of Eastern philosophy and what you think of meditation and contemplation and all that sort of stuff. But Morita therapy is very much about purpose and action. Then there's Naikan, which is the self-reflection exercise that you can do, and then Kaizen as well, which is that sort of incremental things that you can do to improve over time. But my main focus is Morita therapy.

Lisa: So, how did you get into this? What was your background before you got into? How did you get into mindset coaching? What's your personal story?

Carly: It’s really evolved. I've always been someone who likes helping people. Over the years, I was kind of the go-to whenever friends had problems, and I looked at—

Lisa: The shoulder to cry on.

Carly: Yeah, exactly. I was always the shoulder. But, I started off looking into life coaching. I did when we're in Scotland, I did voluntary work with ChildLine Scotland. That was such a brilliant organisation, and they have really good training. So I kind of started my training with that, and counseling over the phone with young people. I really got a lot out of it. I then looked at life coaching and it kind of didn't really resonate with me. Then by the time I was trying to figure out what direction I was going to go - my background is completely different; my background is music and advertising - so I kind of did it and adapted then and tried to sort of play to my strengths, I guess. Had kids, and so, my focus was on the kids. Paul was building his business and doing a lot of traveling, doing a lot of extra educational stuff, just continually learning. And I was doing that, sort of in the background as well, but not with the intensity that he was doing because I was with the kids.

And then he was listening to the Art of Manliness podcast. Greg Krech, who is a Morita therapy expert, was on and talking about the Psychology of Action. Paul was just like ‘Oh, my God, this guy is amazing and so aligned with the stuff that we're doing,’ and looked into it a bit further. We worked out that he did this certification course over in the States. And Paul just said to me, ‘Right, it's your turn.’ It's like, ‘This is all you. If you don't do it, I'll do it, then it's your turn.’ So I was way out of my comfort zone. First time I left the kids, and that traveled over to Vermont, in the States. Did a 10-day residential component of the certification, and then came back, and then studied for a year and a half. That's how I got into it. It really, that 10 days at the ToDo Institute really completely changed my life. It was the first thing. Jumping to one of the components of Morita therapy is around attention and where your attention is. One of the first things Greg said in the course was, ‘Your life is not based on your life. Your life is based on what you pay attention to’. And I was just like, ‘Well, that's an—,’ and it kind of just took it from there. And then when I got back, I started just slowly getting clients with the Japanese psychology, and then I discovered ACT, which is Acceptance Commitment Therapy, which was started by Steven Hayes in the 1980s. It is more of a modern approach, but same principles. It's Japanese psychology. So I combined both of them, and I just loved them, and I use the tools myself every day.

Lisa: And you've turned it into the Carly therapy.

Carly: Yes, Carly therapy.

Lisa: Yeah. Because you do—you take, I do this too. Like bits of this, and a bit of that, and a bit of like your own recipe or what resonates with you. What you find is working and so—

Carly: Yeah, and what I actually love about it is it's not just about, it was started by Shoma Morita who was the Japanese psychiatrist in 1920. He started it for patients with anxiety, a form of neurosis. It started as an in-patient program. He had quite a strict protocol that they went through. But what I love is that you can apply these principles into just your daily life. So it's not just about emotional well-being. it's about living fully every day using these principles.

Lisa: So let's dive into it a little bit then. If someone comes to you with anxiety, depression, something like that, where would you start with them? So like we can—what I want to get to is how do we pull out some of the tools and some of the learnings that some people can take some value away from this conversation today? So where would you start? What's this type of thing that you're looking at? What sort of tools and processes do you go through?

Carly: One of the first exercises that I will do with them is to look at their life and identify what's in their control, and not what is not within their control. It's a really interesting exercise, because it gets the thinking process going. Because that list of what's not in your control becomes very, very long. And the things that are within your control is actually quite short. So you look at the things that aren't in your control, the obvious ones, like the weather, COVID, a lot of political decisions, that sort of stuff. But you drill it down, and you can't control what other people think. You can't control what other people think of you. You can certainly influence it, but you can't control it - what they do, what they say, how they behave. And you cannot control what you think, or the thoughts that come into your head.

Lisa: The automatic sort of thoughts that jump out of your head.

Carly: Yeah, the automatic thoughts and the automatic emotion that comes up. Of course, once those thoughts pop up, you can reframe and do all that sort of stuff, or positive affirmations, all that, all those sorts of things. But as soon as that thought pops up into your head, that's beyond your control. We have between 70 and 80 thousand thoughts per day.

Lisa: Yeah apparently. This is crazy! We’re just thought machines! We are just churning these things out all the time. Dr. Daniel Amen, who I follow, he talks about ANTs, automatic negative thoughts. And where do you think there's this, you’re saying that we're not in control of those, they're just coming through. Are they coming through from our programming or, subconsciously, or what?

Carly: Yeah, I mean, we're all individuals. And we're productive from when we are born right up to our experiences, right up until this present moment. But it's also good to have an understanding of how the mind works because those automatic negative thoughts, if we didn't, as humans, have a negative bias, we wouldn't see the human race today. So, back in caveman days, you probably heard this before, it's like, we had to have anxiety. We had to have that negative skew because otherwise we were going to get eaten by a saber toothed tiger. But in our modern world, it's those negative thoughts. It's like, ‘What's our boss thinking of us? So why do we get that many likes on our Instagram posts?’ It's not helpful. A lot of the stuff right now that's causing those negative thoughts. It’s not helpful for us to live fully. So in Morita therapy, the first step is the acceptance. First of all, it's awareness of thoughts. And that's where it's good to use that metacognition of observing your thoughts and something. So I love that I'm constantly observing my thoughts and I’m like, ‘Oh, there it is again’.

Lisa: Because I first heard that from Craig Harper, our mutual friend at the You Project. I've been using that a heck of a lot since I heard that. When you step outside your house, when you watch yourself, as if you were above, as if I was above looking down my spirit self or whatever you want to call it. Looking at my brain. Just tuning out this shit, basically. Bringing forth this. And then looking at it and go, ‘Hang on. Is it good? Is it serving me right now?’

Carly: Exactly. And that's the question to ask. It's like, if you can create space, because then Craig would have talked about the different cells and we are not our thoughts, and we're not our anxiety. So there's a part of us, as humans, animals can't do this, but what makes us unique is that we're able to observe our thoughts. And if we can create that space between us and our thoughts, we can look at that thought more in an analytical way, rather than in an emotional way. It's not about whether that thought is right or wrong. It's whether it's helpful.

Lisa: Yeah. And something right now.

Carly: Yeah, exactly. That's sort of the acceptance part of what's in our control, what's not in our control. The big one is those thoughts and emotions. And then have been aware of creating that space and observing them, that's kind of the first step. Any act, we call that diffusion or unhooking. When we get hooked by our thoughts, it's almost like they're pushing us around, and then they start dictating what we do without necessarily taking us towards the person that we really want to be. So if we can observe them and unhook from them, then that gives us that space to choose our behavior, and choose it aligned with our values or our purpose and takes us towards the person that we want to be.

Lisa: That's brilliant. So it's really getting the executive functioning part of our brain, our prefrontal cortex talking to our amygdala more or being more connected to them. This frontal area of the brain that only humans have really developed, and in some primates have to a certain degree. But because a lot of us go around being hijacked by our amygdala, all the time. So that's the reptilian part of the brain that’s sort of a more primitive part of the brain, that is responding very, very quickly, quicker than the prefrontal cortex, to dangers in your environment, or negative things happening in the environment. Was it here as a survival mechanism? Talking about this the other day, and I said, how fast my amygdala switches on when something in my environment happens? Say, someone cuts me off in traffic. Those automatic thoughts that come out from the amygdala before I switched my logical adult brain on, ‘I'm going to punch that dude in the face’.

Carly: Thank goodness, your prefrontal cortex switches in then and says, ‘Don't do that!’

Lisa: But when I was younger, I was less able to do that. And I was very fiery, very angry. Now as I've gotten older and understand that sort of process, I can go, ‘Okay, come on, take a couple of deep exhales here, and we're going to calm ourselves down and get a grip of it’. But it's also a very protective thing. Sometimes I catch a glass that's falling off the table before I've even registered it with my prefrontal cortex. And that’s also your reaction speed. Your amygdala is working at, I don't know what it is, thousands of a second faster than this. And so you're catching things. It can be a very positive thing, but it can also be - our jails and our justice system are full of people whose amygdala is more dominant and more able to control. And so they've done things in the spur of the moment without getting political on it, but it is something that we need to practice and work on. And it's something that you as a parent would know that the younger the child is, the less control that they have up there. So they just do whatever their emotional brain tells them to do - scream, yell, kick, whatever. As we get older, we learn to handle a bit more. But there's still this disconnect going on.

Carly: Yeah, our brains aren't fully developed until the age of 25. But, you look at that, and there's decisions being made by young people that are going to affect them for the rest of their life, and that their brains aren't fully developed to be able to make those long-term decisions. So, it's really interesting.

Lisa: So that's the awareness and stepping out and unhooking as you said, or diffusion, and looking at yourself. So that's the first thing that you can do. And looking at what is in your control and what is not in your control. So how do you approach the stuff that's not in your control, that makes you fearful, for example?

Carly: What other people think is a huge one. To the majority of my clients, it is the number one fear, if you want to call it anxiety or worry. It is what others think of them. Even that is a very normal thing. So the next step is about acceptance. It's not acceptance in a passive way, but it's an acceptance of what is a natural part of the human experience. Wiring what people think is actually quite normal because back when we were in a tribal setting, we had to care what others thought. We had to know that we were adding value to the tribe, and the survival of the tribe. Otherwise, we'd get kicked out. So it's just that now, there's too many people. We have so many connections. Not only our physical connection with people, but also through social media. So it's almost like this connection overdrive that we have, and this worry about what others think, this worry about the posts that young people post on social media, their appearance, and all that sort of stuff. So I guess I approach that, first of all, with my clients that this is just a natural part of being human. That looking at that thought of if they're worried about what somebody is thinking of them. Looking at that is not right or wrong. But is it helpful? If it's not helpful, then do that by observing self. Defuse or unhook from it. Create that space, and then redirect attention into what needs to be done in that moment. Acceptance isn't about that passive, “I’ve got to put up with it.” It's not about tolerating anything, but it's about making room for it, and making room for those thoughts and those emotions that come up. And using tools like the breath and exercise that manage it. But I think the main thing is about discomfort tolerance levels, because we don't, and I know you would talk about comfort zones a lot.

So Morita, he believed that in radiotherapy there were two sets of opposing forces. One was a desire to live fully, and the other one was this desire to be secure and comfortable. So they're opposing each other. But as you would know, any success, like all my achievements in my life has involved some level of discomfort. And sometimes we're willing to feel that discomfort. Even on your wedding day, you feel nervous and everything, but you still get married. But it's that everyday anxiety that we feel. It's this focus on the discomfort and wanting to get rid of it. And when that's intense, this is not easy. I don't want to lighten this because I know that these intense feelings can be quite debilitating to people. But using these tools, you make room for it, make space around it, and be able to do what's important to you, coexisting, bringing that discomfort with you, in the hope that it's going to turn down like the intensity. It's a bit like a radio playing in the background. If the radio is really loud, it's taking your attention, it's hard to focus. But using these tools of diffusing or unhooking, it's, slowly the radio just starts to turn down. And it might just be a little murmur in the background.

Lisa: And hanging with that tension long enough, so stepping, being brave enough to take something on. Say a challenge - you're going to America to learn this thing a bit. You're leaving your kids behind, and your husband behind, you're off to this new place. And you're like, ‘What the hell am I doing?’ All that sort of stuff. Me and my life going off to run like in the Himalayas, or the Sahara, and absolutely shitting myself. And it sounded good while he was signing up, and you'd had a glass of wine. And now, you’re like, ‘What am I doing? I'm in this so deep, there's no way out now, so I have to go through’.

So I know that tension very, very well. And I know that those are the times when the growth happens, isn't it? When you're pushing, but you are also risking failure, you are risking being, and this is the sort of dichotomy, or how it's contradictory. We, as human beings, seek comfort. We seek safe because that is our DNA programming. But because we live in such comfortable societies with comfortable couches and comfortable Netflix's to watch in houses that we live in and cars that we drive, we don't ever get out of that comfort zone if we don't want to. We can have our food delivered to our door and order our clothes online. And we can be very, very insular if that's the way that we decide to live, but we are never going to grow in that state. We are never going to challenge, we're never going to fulfill our potential. And so when you talk to people, they all want to change. They all want to be epic. They all want to do like, ‘I wish I could be like you and run ultra-marathons, or run a business, or whatever the case may be.’ But nobody’s wrong. But a lot of people just are not willing to put up with the pain, the discomfort, the fear, the financial investment, the time investment, the hard yards, in order to reap those rewards. So how do you teach yourself to be a little bit tougher? A little bit of, ‘I'm going to do this. I'm scared anyway. But I'm doing it.’ How do you teach yourself that sort of toughness or resilience?

Carly: Because if you try and avoid or suppress those strong, intense emotions, it's going to affect your life. You're not going to be able to live fully by staying in that comfort zone. And I love what I want to do. It just reminded me of the cold shower thing, I have my current shower this morning. So we're running this eight-week course with Jonah. We might talk about it later. But part of that is this ritual of the cold shower. Now I don't particularly like the cold. And I like being comfortable as well. It's like being anxious or nervous, it's not a nice feeling to have. But what you can do is practice getting uncomfortable. So deliberate practice. And I think Paul called it discomfort harvesting or harvesting discomfort.

Lisa: That's what I should do, a PhD in the weekend.

Carly: There you go, we've got your PhD. Cold shower is such a good tool to get out of your comfort zone. Because you have total control at the end of your nice warm shower, which is nice and comfortable. You have control whether you turn that to cold and spend a minimum of 30 seconds under that cold water, being uncomfortable. And if you can't do that, then the likelihood of when something goes wrong, and these intense emotions come up, then the likelihood of you being able to handle that could be low if you can't even handle having a cold shower. Cold showers, as you know, they have huge benefits on the immune system, and even emotional well-being. Everything that comes from me and my experience of them. It is about getting out of my comfort zone. Because I need to practice that as well.

Lisa: We all do, all the time. This is the misconception, too, that you've done it. In my case, I had done one ultramarathon, therefore you're tough for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. This is something you need to use it or lose it. So that's why that daily ritual stuff is very important.

Carly: Absolutely. And you were never exonerated, we'll count until the day we die, we'll keep doing this stuff. Because we're human. And that's the acceptance part of it, it’s that life is hard. I loved Matthew McConaughey. That speech that he did for the students who are graduating. But one of the things he just said, ‘Life is hard’. There's nothing original in that, but it's just the way he said it. It's like you need to get used to it, you need to prepare for it. Because life as humans, we will not stay in this comfortable environment, something will happen, somebody will get sick, jobs will be lost. Just like COVID happened and businesses, it's like stuff happens to us. So what we can do, while things are going well, is put ourselves out of our comfort zone on just small things on a daily basis. And then when the shit hits the fan, we can really cope with it.

Lisa Tamati: And this just summed up my entire books, really, in a mouthful, because it is about scaring the crap out of yourself, pushing the limits, and finding what you can do. Not all the time. We've spoken about this before about rest and recovery times and coming back so that you can recover from that big thing you just took on. You can't just go back to back to back, scary big, awesome, huge things all the time, because that leads to burnout and PTSD and goodness knows what else. So it is about everything that I study in biology and psychology and all the areas that I study, it seems to be this flow, life loves this even flow, right from our nutrition. So eating the same thing all the time, always being on keto is not good. It's about this up and down. With biology, you want to have a little bit of this, and then you want to pull back, you want a little bit of cold. And when it comes to hermetic stressors, doing things like saunas, like cold showers, like training and exercise. If you do too much, you're going to—if you look at those four phases of stress, where you've got the alert phase, and then the resistance phase, and then the recovery or exhaustion phase. If you're going overtraining, you're not going to get there. You're not going to get that response, that compensation.

It's the same thing here. You want to be going flowing in and out of tough times, come back, recover, see how that went, then have another crack at something else in a different area of your life perhaps. And that this even flow of life is, if we just stay in the static, then we're actually going backwards. What really matters for me and the stuff that I do is when it comes to health. Because if you're not in this willingness to put up with things like cold showers and going training when you don't feel like it, and eating good food and trying to have these stable fundamental health habits and working on them, I'm not perfect and no one's perfect, but working on these things, you are going to pay the price with your life, your health. Yes, we're all going to die one day, but I hope that I will live a healthy long lifespan, a very long one. I want to have health for as long as I possibly can. And so by studying all this, by learning all this, you can actually, hopefully hinder the worst things happening. I mean, a lot of things, you can't prevent everything because like I said, some things are outside of our control. And we have to acknowledge that. But what can I do to up the odds, then I'm going to live long. Up the odds that I'm going to be healthy until the end. All of those types of things because the price, and I've seen this in my own life and in my own family, unfortunately, when they didn't acknowledge all those things along the way and then the big freight train came in, and then you're pushing the proverbial uphill.

Carly: There's a reflection exercise that I do with my clients. And it's, imagine that you're 80, and you're reflecting back on your life, but it but it's your life today. So you don't go back in the past. It's like you're reflecting back on your life today. And one of the questions is, what would you do differently? And it's a really powerful question, because it gets you to look at your life in a more analytical way and go, ‘Well, actually things like I’d exercise more, or I’d drink less’. Spending more time with your family is a huge one, that's usually the number one thing I would spend more time with my kids or it's more time with my family. And once you've got that list, you can look at that, and then you have the power today to choose those things moving forward. So if you project yourself into the future, reflect back, you then are able to almost design your life how you want to live from this point onwards.

Lisa: I've heard what people that are on their deathbed are thinking, what are the greatest regrets that they wish they had done. And it is things like that, it's not, I wish I'd worked more. I wish I’d earned more money. We need a certain amount of work. And we need a certain amount of money, all of these sorts of things. But what are your highest priorities, and then aligning your values and what you're doing to those priorities. And there really isn't a dynamic thing, it changes a little bit and your values and all the things change over time. But being in alignment with your greatest priorities now is something that we need to keep reevaluating, and are we on track for that? I'm talking to myself here, because I'm definitely a workaholic. And I want to, ‘Oh, that sounds like a great idea’. Write another book, do a PhD and whatever dreams and things that you've got. And then you're like, ‘Hmm, that's going to take me away from my family’. Early in my life, I wouldn't even have thought that I would have just been so excited about the thing. And now I've got to stop and think about those things. Because you realise now, I'm 52 and I'm running out of time to do the things that I want. And when you lose a loved one, like I recently lost my dad, that's a real rough. Because otherwise, when there's no major thing like that has happened to you yet, you’re just bumbling along and everything's okay. When I talk to my family members and stuff about my father, it's like, ‘I wish I'd taken him fishing more. I wish he had more time. I wish I'd learned from him’. And we're all wishing we had done this together. So it is that wake-up call that is like, how do you want to be thinking in the next 20 years then?

Carly: And that's kind of a silver lining thing as well, isn't it? Even though something as sad, and the loss of a loved one, that silver lining is that you can learn from that and go, ‘Well, I wish I'd done that.’ And then is there an opportunity now to do that with somebody who's here and with you? Do you know, I was thinking, one of the things that I've started doing consistently now— with life, the modern world, the way it is, and its rush, rush, rush, rush. And we're getting out there almost, a lot of us are on autopilot. And I know I was. Even with it's like, ‘Right, I'll do my exercise. I'll go to my CrossFit class or my exercise class, and then I'm going to work. And I’m doing this’. It's like, go, go, go, go, go. For me inputs, like emails and text messages and social media, everything's kind of input. It's overwhelming.

So what I started doing, and it's actually Craig Harper was on his podcast last year, and right at the end of it was before Christmas, I totally walked into this. He was like, ‘So what's something that you want to achieve in 2021?’ And I said, ‘I want to get up earlier’, because I thought I was funny, even though I was still getting up at 6:30. But I was just fine. I was just going straight into it. And so he sent me his 100-day challenge to get up at 5:30 each day. And what I did was I started this pre-input routine, I don't know, do you do this. So I get up, and there's no phone. Do not touch my phone. I don't have my phone in my room. It's uncharged in the kitchen. So don't go near it. Don't go near a computer. What I started doing is the first thing I do is, I journal. It's not a journal where I'm writing paragraphs of stuff. It's all dot points. But the first thing I do a metric. So I just say, the alarm went off at 5:30, got up at 5:45. Or maybe I did get up at 5:30. Or maybe I got up at 6:00, but I measure it. Over time, I've kind of been able to say: well, what influenced me whether I didn't get up or whether I did get up. Most of it is what I did the night before. The morning starts the night before. So you can see patterns there. But the big thing that I found is that it gives me silence. And I think silence is something that we're missing in today's world, because of all these inputs. If you can sit with silence, that's when you can really think about things, you can observe your thoughts. You can start being creative when ideas come up. So before any inputs or journal, I look at what my wins were yesterday, and really celebrate those. Have you heard BJ Fogg?

Lisa: Yeah, Tiny Habits.

Carly: Tiny Habits. So, he says to celebrate the small things, and you get that little dopamine hit. And dopamine is also the neurotransmitter of motivation. I will journal even micro moments that I've had with people outside in the community that I thought that was really, just like my barista. She makes me a great coffee, and she has a chat and tells me my hair looks nice. It's those sort of little things that I think we need to have more focus on, and to celebrate those sort of moments in our life, because otherwise, they just pass up. They’re just fleeting, and we’re onto the next thing.

Lisa: And when we tend to just be looking at the big picture all the time, like the big goals - the program we are writing, or the book we're doing or the project at work, or whatever the case is. We don't celebrate those. I've started to, because I'm running three companies, I've got a disabled mom that I still look after 24/7, 7 days a week. It's full on. And a lot of the time, some days, I'm just like, ‘How the hell does any human brain do this?’ I'm just like, ‘I've got a pretty good brain, but I am not keeping up.’ When you drop the ball and you're like, ‘Oh.’ Like I said to my husband, ‘I dropped the ball on this appointment the other day and I'm such an idiot,’ and he said, ‘Stop, stop. You're not an idiot. You're telling yourself that.’ And of course I am. Thanks for pointing that out to me. And yet you're doing the best you bloody will can and in this very difficult situation. Give yourself a break. And we're all doing that, we are all trying to keep up because things seem to get faster and more.

And so taking moments out, like an appointment fell through this morning, ‘Oh, an opportunity.’ Now I can either get into some work, which has plenty to do. Or my husband comes out and he looks at he's looking all down on the dumps and exhausted, and I’m like, ‘Let's go for a walk, darling. It's a beautiful day. Let's go and just walk for 20 minutes. Get some sunshine on our eyes, wake ourselves up, have a talk about the day before,’ then come back and then ‘Wow, it's a different start to the day’. Because usually it's just back, back, back. And then you find yourself at 10 o'clock at night when you finally sit down for the first time. Turn the telly on or something to just zone out, to compensate for this whirlwind. Building into your day, those little micro times we say, ‘Oh it’s a beautiful flower’. Being in the, ‘Oh, what beautiful sunshine,’ and all this, ‘Someone’s smiling at me.’ ‘Hi, how you doing?’ Just those little wee things that can help you get enough energy to get through to the next—

Carly: And that's where attention comes in too, which is part of Morita therapy, is that we can pay attention internally to our problems and our thoughts or feelings or our pain. Or even with all that going on, we can still pay attention to a beautiful flower. It's about one of the most simple, and it sounds crazy, but using your senses can get you out of your head and into the present moment. And we were talking about, I think Paul may have mentioned this, I don't know. One of the exercises is looking for the color blue. So if you find you're ruminating in thoughts, or if you're driving in the car, I find that that's when I started, all the thoughts come up when I'm driving, because it's such an automatic thing that you do. So I really try and redirect my attention. There's a metaphor of a torch. So the beam of light is your attention. And you have control over where you shine that. It's so effective. So am I shining that torch in my internal world? Or can I redirect it with all this going on, redirect it to the outside world? And I'll just look for things for color blue. Look for tiny things for color blue look for, obviously, the sky hopefully will be blue. Look, they're different shades of blue. And what that does, it doesn't get rid of what's going on internally, but it just redirects your attention.

Lisa: Distracts you from the internal looping that goes on in your brain, when you start to just, those thoughts just keep going around in circles. And there's actually no solution coming out of it. And this is the sort of thinking that goes on at two o'clock in the morning when you wake up. Cortisol has gone up and you've got some project that you're struggling with or something and it's just a loop, loop, loop, loop. And you've got to break that loop.

Carly: That's the hardest time, because at two o'clock in the morning, you can't really look for the color blue. You can ask yourself a question, ‘Is this happening now? Oh, no, this is not it's a statement. This isn't happening now’. Because you're thinking about the future or you’re thinking about the past. But it's not happening now. And what's happening now is that you need to sleep.

Lisa: I focus on my breath doing breath work. And apart from that, it doesn't happen so much to me. Now that does on occasion. But do some breath work where you're concentrating on the exhale. And there's lots of different breaths - box breathing or 4-7-8 breathing. I like to do what you're doing this massively long exhale. And that really slows down the parasympathetic nervous system, and can actually help you fall back to sleep. And I find that very, very powerful. But it's just breaking that cycling in your head, when you find yourself with a specific problem, that you're just not getting the answers to, going round and round, that's when you need to go either meditate, breathe, go for a walk, go for a run, do something that actually changes your mood. You're allowing space, because a lot of the time people think, ‘I have to stay here and not solve this problem right now. Otherwise, it's going to get worse’. Actually, when you let go, and you let it have time and space, that's when the answers come to you.

Carly: Yeah, that's right. And looking at what's within your control at that moment. It's not within your control that those ruminating thoughts keep coming up. But what is within your control is how you respond to them. So what you do in that moment, and a really good question to ask is, what needs to be done now? We’re only at a series of moments. It's that we only have the present moment. And most of the time, the anxiety or the ruminating thoughts are not related to the present moment. They're about the future or the past. So getting back.

Actually, that reminds me, there was a study done. I don't know if you've heard of it by Matt Killingsworth. He's done this study on the wandering mind, and how it relates to happiness. He created this app, and there were 35,000 people involved in this study. And what he did is throughout the day, people just getting on with their day and throughout the day, these questions that pop up like ‘What are you doing now?’ I had that list of 50 things I might be doing. Like, I'm on the train, or I'm at work or whatever. And then it was, ‘What are you—are you thinking about what you're doing? Or are you thinking about something else?’ So it was measuring their wandering mind, and then measuring their happiness levels. And it showed that even if you are stuck in traffic, which is a very frustrating thing, especially if you're running late, if your mind was wandering, you were less happy than if you were in the present moment, just observing your surroundings. You are even happier being in the present moment stuck in traffic than if you were in a pleasant moment but having a wandering mind, if that makes sense. So being in the present moment, and I think we need to practice it. It is a skill. Attention is a skill. And being aware that our attention is constantly being robbed, just like advertising, and social media. It's just constant attention. So if we can take control of our attention and get into the present moment, then that can have such a huge impact on our well-being.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And this is one of the things that I love about a podcast like this. I am fully focused on you in this conversation. Nothing is pulling at me right now. Whereas when I'm working on the computer, and there's a hundred windows open, and I'm back and like, ‘I'm just going to jump on messenger so that I can do this task, send a message to so and so’. I get on to messenger, this is an example. And then, ‘Oh, there's another message coming. Oh, who was it from? Oh, I'll answer that’. And then you're off, and you're over here, and you're over there. And that original thing that you were actually meant to be doing in that moment is gone. And this is the difficulty. Even though I know that this happens, and I'm trying to control it. Shutting those windows down is not always an option, because you have to have the windows open, otherwise, re-find the bloody websites every time. But having the control to go, ‘No, I'll work on that later’. I'm working with a guy at the moment who I'm sure I'm driving insane on systems and processes, because this is a thing that my brain does not do well. And it's driving my business partner mental, because I am constantly like chasing shiny objects, super excited about science, running here and there, learning everything, wanting to do a hundred courses, not focusing on the things that need, the systems and the processes, and they're boring.

And so this poor guy is trying to help me. Shout out to Mike Drone. Get my calendar sorted, get my scheduling sorted, get my inbox under control, get these basic systems. It was an interesting, the Calendly thing, that you have to have, all professional people have. I have, ‘I can’t do it, I can’t work it out. All I have is a fare overseas. And I don't get it.’ And then there was this resistance to it because I didn't want to waste my time learning something that I'm not interested in, or the outside take care of that. I tried to get my assistant to take care of it, and tried to get my husband to take care of it, and nobody would take care of it. They kick me back on my lap. And then Mike said, ‘You have to do it’. And so I actually spent yesterday, a good two three hours setting it up. And I was so proud of myself. Stuff I hate, but I did it.

Carly: Did you do this? Did you just focus on that task that you did anything else come in?

Lisa: Yeah, I had things coming in. But I keep bringing my focus back and I actually managed it for the first time in history. On a thing that I'm not interested in. Because if it's a thing that I'm interested in, if it's science, man, I know, I kind of watch or listen to stuff and learn stuff and read stuff for Africa hours every day. That's what I love. That's my happy place. But when it comes to doing the admin, the text, the accounting, the learner, and learning that software, oh God. But it's not because I thought, ‘Oh, I've always thought, are you just too dumb for that. You just don't get it. Your brain doesn't work’. That was an excuse really. Because I can, I know I have a good brain that can cope with it. It's just that I never gave it the attention because I didn't want to be there. And it is still going to be a battle.

Carly: It reminds me too, that this morning, the sort of pre-input routine that a lot of people do is deep work at that time. So if there's something really important that you need to work on. Like if you're writing a book or like whatever it is that you want to spend two hours on or however many hours on without any inputs. Do that first thing in the morning. And don't have your email open or don't have those. But if you can, turn off your notifications, but have that as your deep work and get that done. And then you get on with the day with all the other stuff that you need to do. There's a lot of...

Lisa: [50:42 unintelligible]

Carly: Yeah, exactly. And it's that Stephen Covey thing that, the important not urgent stuff, do that first.

Lisa: That's really hard to do. In prioritising those lists, and having, and this is where the systems and processes coming in, as I'm finding out now, as I'm working on this, as this is urgent and important, you have to do that right away. And if it's just urgent, but not important that can wait, I’ve forgotten all the whole list of things that you sort of - but doing that in an automatic fashion, so that you actually know what then. If a free space comes into your life, like a cancellation or something, “Okay, what is the thing that I can grab out of my to-do list?” That should be filling that space. And I'm still working on that one, instead of getting dragged any which way, which I still tend to do, which is easier to do. And there's a billion things when you got your own company, and you're working, there is a billion hits you have to wear every day. And that becomes just, you can work 24/7 and still be behind.

Carly: Yeah, it's crazy. And that's why, what you were saying before, when you had that opportunity, when you had that space because you missed an appointment. You had that supposed to choose where you were going to go, and you chose a walk with your husband, which is just such a good recovery thing today and a time to be present, and a time to spend time with somebody that you love and grasp those opportunities.

Lisa: Yeah, and not feel guilty, which is what I do. I really should have picked that other project up. I really should have given my husband the time when he needed it, or my mum, or whatever the case may be. In that moment, and take those little opportunities that come up.

Carly: Yeah, so important.

Lisa: Carly, this has been such an interesting conversation, I feel like we could go for another couple of hours. And maybe I'll get you back on. Because we get into the rest of the ACT therapy and the different areas. But is there anything, as we start to wrap up now, anything else that you think that we haven't covered that we should that would really help people out there listening?

Carly: I think the sort of the overarching thing with this approach is having a purpose-driven life rather than an emotional-driven life. And what I mean by purpose is that it's not the sort of big goal, what's my purpose of life, but the purpose of the moment. So even with worry, or anxiety, or ruminating thoughts, just looking at what is my purpose in this moment. It could be as simple as “I need to clean up the kitchen.” Because that's having your house in order, it's something as important to me. And so it's those sort of small things that we do every day, that kind of creates purpose in our lives. I think that's an important thing to— because it's so easy to have our emotions drive us and respond depending on how we're feeling. But if we can look at the purpose of the moment, then we can make those choices that are going to help us live more fully.

Lisa: And not relying on motivation all the time, but taking action and doing the things that are on your highest priority. You and Paul have an eight-week program. So you're doing an eight-week program, which is all around. Will you tell us a little bit about that, what you're doing at the moment?

Carly: So we're running an eight-week program. We've got about 93 on it, which, it’s our first one. So we're really, really pleased. So we do a weekly zoom session, every Tuesday night for about an hour and a half. It's basically, we go through all the different domains of our lives and the different areas - nutrition, mindset is a big one, exercise. So each week, we have sort of a different topic. And then there's an app that goes with that. So there's like a ritual board, everybody has daily rituals that they can tick off. Culture is one of them. And they get points to that. So it's a bit of healthy competition going on. There's a leaderboard on who's doing what. We've had such good response from people. It's been amazing. So yeah, we're hoping to do another one soon after this one’s finished. We're halfway through now.

Lisa: Brilliant, brilliant. I think this is the sort of stuff I love and I eat for breakfast. Love the stuff. I think it's so important that we're working on this sort of thing. So where can people find you and reach out to you and to Paul and what you're doing? What's your website and your social media handles and so on?

Carly: Yeah, so mine is carlytaylorcoaching.com.au and Instagram is Carly Taylor Coaching. And then mindbodybrain.com.au, which you'll find more about the Better You course, which is the behaviour change course. So that's the eight-week program.

Lisa: Put all those notes in the show notes.

Carly: And then Instagram is Mind Body Brain, which was right.

Lisa: Look, Carly, you've been fantastic today. Thank you so much for your time and your input and your passion that you bring to the stuff.

Carly: Thank you so much for having me. It's been great to meet you.

Lisa: It's just been epic. I've really, really enjoyed a conversation and I think a lot of people will have got a lot of practical tips to take away from this conversation as well.

Carly: Yeah, they'll be looking for the color blue today.

Lisa: Exactly.

Outro: That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Vitamin C is a potent vitamin with many benefits to our body. Although many studies prove it can cure diseases and prolong lifespan, many doctors are still wary of this unconventional treatment. In hospitals, it is not a protocol to deliver IV vitamin C therapy to critically ill patients.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:

  1. You will learn about the uses of both oral and intravenous vitamin C in many diseases such as cancer and sepsis.
  2. Discover the latest clinical trials that show how IV vitamin C therapy exerts its healing abilities.
  3. What are the problems facing functional medicine versus allopathic medicine and the pharmacological model dominant in our system today?

Resources

  • Find out more about the Riordan Institute and access Medical Mavericks Trilogy through their website.
  • Follow the Riordan Institute’s YouTube channel.
  • Learn more about the Riordan protocol for cancer patients.
  • Cornell University's clinical trial on IV vitamin C therapy and cancer
  • University of Iowa's clinical trial on vitamin C and pancreatic cancer
  • Watch the case of Allan Smith on an episode of 60 Minutes Living Proof.
  • Explanation lecture of the CITRIS-ALI study by Dr Fowler
  • Learn more about Dr Paul Marik's protocol for sepsis using vitamin C and steroids.
  • Access the VICTAS trials designed to investigate the efficacy of combined use of vitamin C, thiamine and corticosteroids versus indistinguishable placebos on patients with sepsis.
  • Watch Professor Margreet Vissers’ lecture on her work on vitamin C.

Episode Highlights

[05:16] Dr Ron’s Background

  • Dr Ron went to medical school wanting to learn more about health.
  • He specialised in family medicine because it is the best opportunity to deal more directly with patients.
  • Dr Ron met Dr Hugh Riordan, an orthomolecular psychiatrist who was interested in general health and well-being, particularly cancer. He created the Riordan protocol.
  • The RECNAC Project was created to look for non-toxic ways of dealing with cancer.
  • Vitamin C was used in the project as an in vitro treatment to stop cancer growth and determine its mechanism.

[11:56] IV Vitamin C Therapy for Cancer

  • Oral vitamin C is essential, but in extreme illness, IV vitamin C is more crucial to get higher doses.
  • Vitamin C reduces iron.
  • Reduced iron interacts with oxygen, forming a hydroxyl radical.
  • Hydroxyl radicals interact with water to create hydrogen peroxide, a potent killer of cancer cells.
  • Various studies illustrate the importance of IV vitamin C as an adjunct to cancer care.

[16:55] Humans’ Inability to Produce Vitamin C

  • We cannot make our vitamin C because of a mutation in the L-gluconolactone oxidase gene.
  • This gene is responsible for converting glucose to ascorbic acid.
  • There is a misconception that taking vitamin C is a one-and-done scenario.
  • When you are sick, the body’s need for vitamin C goes up.
  • You must take vitamin C at specific dosages and frequencies to maintain adequate levels in the body.

[21:53] Oxygen Deficiency in Cancer

  • Lack of oxygen is the starting point of cancer.
  • In the absence of oxygen, hypoxia induction factor (HIF) triggers cells to shift back to glycolysis, drastically decreasing the number of energy molecules we produce.
  • The body starts cannibalising itself to provide sugar to the cancer cells, creating the early signs of cancer: profound fatigue and cachexia.
  • Vitamin C suppresses HIF.

[28:33] Finding a Doctor Who Knows the Protocol

  • Go to the local health food store or find people who are recognised in the area of nutrition.
  • Some doctors who follow the Riordan protocol keep a low profile so as not to get in trouble with the medical board or get into a political battle.
  • Intravenous vitamin C is a tremendous synergistic adjunct to natural methods of helping the body heal itself.

[34:46] Use of Vitamin C in Chronic Illness Care

  • Most chronic illnesses are mitochondrial dysfunction diseases.
  • Vitamin C would be a rescue molecule for threats to life.
  • It works holistically and goes to the very heart of mitochondrial repair.
  • Oral vitamin C would have to be taken frequently throughout the day to get high enough levels in the blood.

[38:29] Liposomal vs Normal Vitamin C

  • Liposomal vitamin C is packed with phospholipids and omega-6.
  • The advantage of liposomal forms is that they get into the lymphatics faster and do not cause an upset stomach. Omega-6, however, can cause mitochondrial dysfunction.
  • You can dose 100 to 150 grams of sodium ascorbate orally without causing diarrhea.

[34:46] Why Is Vitamin C Given at Low Doses?

  • Doctors are afraid high doses of vitamin C will cause renal stones or dysfunction.
  • Vitamin C does not cause kidney stones, but having a history of renal stones will not stop its formation.
  • Vitamin C is metabolised to oxalate, but you have to have an excess of calcium in the kidneys for oxalate to combine with it and form stones.

[52:51] Oxidative Basis of Disease

  • The reduction is the process of donating electrons; oxidation is the process of removing electrons.
  • There is a dynamic balance in electron flow when we are healthy.
  • When there is injury, oxidation is a signal to start the healing process.
  • Oxidation is not necessarily harmful. However, when it is out of balance, it can cause chronic infections, abscesses and sepsis.

[54:55] Vitamin C in Redox Medicine

  • IV vitamin C continuously gives electrons.
  • Glutathione also donates electrons. But when it does, it becomes oxidised and can no longer function. Therefore, IV vitamin C works better.
  • Our red blood cells have a redox system to rejuvenate vitamin C, but it is very slow.
  • You need to get vitamin C through your diet and intravenously to take in large amounts during emergencies.
  • It has a short half-life and must be supplemented orally three to four times a day.

[59:33] When Can Endurance Athletes Take Vitamin C?

  • Some endurance runners take too many antioxidants to gear up their body and become stronger. However, this is an inappropriate way to use antioxidants.
  • Let the injury occur first and take vitamin C after for recovery.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode

‘Vitamin C is probably, as one friend of Dr Riordan said, the most interesting molecule in the world and does things that no other molecule can do’.

‘This is why we're seeing these incredible death tolls is because, once again, vitamin C has not been recognised even though the International Orthomolecular Association has put out several studies and protocols that would work and would really solve the crisis very quickly if they would start using vitamin C’.

‘Science is not about belief. Science is about trying things and trying to see how things work and what we can do, especially in the field of medicine. If it can save a life, do it’.

‘I don't want people to think that if you don't have access to intravenous vitamin C, you're out of luck. I think it's just a matter of learning to dose yourself more frequently if you've got a chronic illness’.

‘All progress in medicine is met with resistance. It's not just vitamin C. Anything new, unless it's a big profit maker in the realm of something that people already know, then it can weave through fairly quickly. But if it's something that's really original and unique in the realm of medical thought, it's a huge, huge battle to get something new in’.

‘We cannot win politically; we cannot win economically. The only way we can win is if we completely show that the science does play out accurately and people do live better, longer. They get better faster’.

‘It's not that all oxidation is bad and all antioxidants is good. It's the cycles that occur within the body that are part of life and you just need to learn how to nuance your supplementation so that you get the best results’.

About Dr Ron

Dr Ron Hunninghake or Dr Ron, as patients fondly refer to him, is a family medicine doctor. He began his career as a small-town doc in Minneapolis, Kansas, where he first started teaching clinic-based wellness. Later, he joined nearby Salina Family Physicians and was instrumental in founding WellPlan, a comprehensive lifestyle modification program.

Seeking even greater involvement in helping patients learn innovative ways to rebuild and maintain their health, he joined the Riordan Clinic in 1989 as its medical doctor.

Following in the footsteps of Dr Hugh Riordan after the clinic founder’s untimely death in 2005, Dr Ron set about articulating the Riordan approach in seven core precepts:

  1. The primacy of the doctor/patient relationship
  2. Identify and correct the underlying causes.
  3. Characterise the biochemical uniqueness of the patient as co-learner.
  4. Care for the whole person.
  5. Let food be thy medicine.
  6. Cultivate healthy reserves.
  7. The healing power of nature

In addition to his full-time practice as a holistic medical doctor at the Riordan Clinic, Dr Ron has made multiple trips to Japan, Spain, Ecuador, Columbia, New Zealand, Canada and South Korea to lecture on the Riordan IVC protocol for cancer.

Here at the Riordan Clinic, he has presented more than 300 lectures dealing with all facets of nutrition, lifestyle and optimal health. He has co-authored three books on subjects including inflammation, energy-boosting supplements and how to stop pre-diabetes.

You may contact Dr Ron through Riordan Clinic or contact him at +1 316-682-3100 on Mondays, 4:30 to 5 PM, CST.

Enjoy the Podcast?

If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so that they can learn more about the benefits of vitamin C in cancer therapy and how to access these protocols.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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It’s common to hear that a good diet and exercise can significantly improve our health. But health is more than that. Your thoughts and beliefs can change your genes and brain structure! 85% of our genes are malleable, and you can change them for the better with good practices.

In this episode, Dr Dawson Church joins us to talk about the benefits of meditation and EFT tapping. He shares that changing our mental states can significantly impact our bodies and even our environment. The key to happiness and calm is in our hands; we just need to invest time to achieve it.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover the ways you can influence and change your genes and body. 2. Understand the benefits of meditation and achieving a flow state. 3. Learn how to become a force of good in the world by being an emotional contagion.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * More Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Elena Seranova + 189: Increasing Your Longevity with Elena Seranova + Pushing the Limits Episode with Dr Don Wood * Connect with Dr Dawson: Website | Twitter | Facebook * Check out these amazing books and resources from Dr Dawson Church

  • The Genie In Your Genes

  • Mind To Matter. Get it for free here!

  • Bliss Brain. Get it for free here! You’ll also get eight meditations that accompany each chapter of the book.

    • The EFT Manual
    • The Immunity Meditation: Receive Your Complimentary EFT Mini-Manual and BONUS Immunity EcoMeditation!
  • EFT Universe
  • Stealing Fire by Steven Kotler
  • Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
  • ABC’s Catalyst - Meditation
  • The Muscle Intelligence Podcast with Ben Pakulski: Using energy therapy to heal trauma and illness, increase productivity, up-regulate gene expression and build character traits with Dr Dawson Church

Episode Highlights [05:52] The Benefits of Meditation and Alternative Practices * Dr Dawson shares how his research shows that our minds can turn thoughts and ideas into reality. * People who practice meditation become really happy. * Dr Dawson shares that he studied meditation, energy healing, and psychology. * Through this, he transformed from a miserable teen to the happy character he is today. * Dr Dawson believes that his purpose is to give the gift of happiness to others.

[10:18] Quantifying Ancient Traditions with Science * Dr Dawson shares how he was able to measure acupressure points using the galvanometer. * His findings proved the integrity of the Chinese practice of energy flows. * Energy treatments have shown astronomical results. Listen to the full episode to hear the breakthroughs in these treatments.

[13:55] How to Influence Your Genes * While we can influence our genes with diet, recent research shows that you can also change it with your beliefs and attitudes. * 15% of our genomes are fixed, while the remaining 85% are malleable. * In his practice, Dr Dawson learned how anxiety spikes cortisol levels, depletes the immune system, produces calcification in the brain and more. * This finding shows that it’s important to manage our thoughts and beliefs. * Through this, we’re able to influence our physical bodies positively.

[16:36] How EFT Tapping Addresses Trauma * EFT tapping has shown its effectiveness in resetting your emotions, especially when you’re feeling stressed, anxious, or angry. * Normally, your stress response creates re-traumatisation by sending high levels of signals in your body. Over time, this can shrink the brain. * When you remember a traumatic event while tapping, you can reduce the signals and break traumatic associations. * Once you break the association between your traumatic memories and fight or flight response, it stays broken. * EFT Tapping is a powerful tool. Learn how Dr Dawson uses this to help war veterans in the full episode!

[25:44] Break the Trauma Loop and Calm Down * When traumatic memories and experiences haunt you, you fall into a trauma loop. * We have evolved to become highly attuned to potential dangers, even if they’re just possibilities. * Our modern world doesn’t help with this condition, where people say that it’s hard to find time to meditate and calm down. * Dr Dawson shares that a few minutes of mediation will pay off. Not only will you be calmer physically and physiologically, but you will also perform better. * You cannot afford not to meditate.

[31:55] How to Get into the Flow State * Scientists found that when someone is in flow, they have a characteristic brainwave state. * They sought to re-engineer this and train ordinary people to achieve the same state. * We can achieve the flow state through mediation like the mystics do or through peak performance. * Once you hit this state repeatedly, your brain will be naturally addicted to the boost in anandamide. You get into the same state of bliss that you achieve through drugs. * There are several other benefits of meditation. Listen to the full episode to hear what it can do.

[37:10] Letting Go of Local Reality * Dr Dawson shares that great figures throughout history have let go of ordinary states to achieve the extraordinary. * In meditation, you have the opportunity to let go of local reality and go to a field of consciousness. * This place is where we can deliberately change our belief systems and then affect our local reality. * When you enter the non-local reality, you can change the hardware of the brain. * Immerse yourself in meditation, and it will change your mind and brain. Then it starts to change your whole life.

[44:18] Mindset Changes on Sports and Exercise * Athletes often get injured when they’re not in the flow state. Athletes who have a long career tend to know how to pace themselves. * For people looking to lose weight, it’s important to associate exercise with pleasure rather than pain. This strategy helps to stretch people’s limits without burning out. * Learn to listen to your body and stop when it tells you to do so. * Athletes are typically expected to push themselves. It’s the same principle: they need to learn to listen to their body and understand their limits. * The way we build strength and endurance is through recovery. Don’t forget this part of the training.

[56:11] Be an Agent of Positive Emotional Contagion * People can affect their environment. Our emotions and moods are contagious. * We don’t know how far our positivity can reach. It can affect hundreds and even thousands. It can even save lives. * Become an agent of compassion and love. Not only will you help others, but you also help yourself. * Listen to the full episodes to learn about the research on spreading positivity and happiness.

[1:05:36] Living Longer * On average, optimists live ten years longer than pessimists. * Negative emotions are like corrosive acids that will damage your body. * You need to work on being optimistic and healing your trauma simultaneously. * Note that this is a continuous process.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘I just said, “You know, universe, what is your purpose for me in the coming year?” And the universe, I heard these words, they said, “We've given you the gift of happiness. Now, go give it to everyone else, too.” So that's really what I see myself doing now and where I came from originally and where I am today.’

‘It's [EFT] like pushing the reset button for your emotions. So you're upset, you're angry or you're stressed whatever way, then you simply tap on these points very, very quickly.’

‘You cannot afford not to meditate. The gains in productivity, problem solving ability, and creativity is so enormous that if you don't spend that hour or that half hour, you are missing out on your biggest single leverage point for success in your life.’

‘In meditation for a little while, you let go of local reality, and you simply identify with the field of consciousness that is the cosmos. There's this huge information field in which we swim in it. We're like fish looking for water when we're looking for God or spirituality.’

‘I wrote in my journal, “My heart is just burning with love and bursting with gratitude”. Because you come down in the states of such ecstasy and the rest of the world in your life, and it is a world of magic. You then create that magic all around you.’

‘Athletes, first of all, when they're in the zone, when they're in flow, they injure themselves less and their performance goes up. It's that old Yerkes-Dodson law, currently referred to a little bit of stress is fine.’

‘Jesus said, “Love your enemies,” to go to them that hate you. Yeah, very good advice, even though it's 2,000 years old. And when you do this, you're producing emotional contagion around you. You have no idea how far it's going.’

About Dr Dawson Church Dr Dawson Church is a leading health writer and researcher whose principal work includes The Genie In Your Genes, Mind To Matter and Bliss Brain. His research linked the connection of consciousness, emotion and gene expression. Moreover, he has looked into the science of peak mental states, flow states and happiness.

With his research, Dr Dawson conducted clinical trials and founded The Institute for Integrative Healthcare to promote groundbreaking new treatments. To date, his largest program is the Veterans Stress Projects which has offered free treatment to over 20,000 veterans with PTSD.

Dr Dawson further shares his research through EFT Universe, one of the largest alternative medicine websites. In addition, he is the science columnist for Unity magazine and has written blog posts for the Huffington Post.

In his undergraduate and graduate courses at Baylor University, Dr Dawson was the first student to graduate from the University Scholar’s program in 1979. He earned his doctorate from the Integrative Healthcare at Holos University under the famed neurosurgeon Norman Shealy, MD, PhD, the American Holistic Medical Association founder.

Are you interested to know more about Dr Dawson’s work? Check out his website and EFT Universe.

You can also reach Dr Dawson on Twitter and Facebook.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they learn the benefits of meditation and the science behind EFT tapping.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa.

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Your host, Lisa Tamati, here with you and today I have another very, very special guest for you that is perhaps going to change your life. A really very interesting man. Dr Dawson Church, PhD, who is an award winning science writer with three bestselling books to his credit. The Genie in Your Genes was the first book to demonstrate that emotions drive gene expression. So that's all-around epigenetics, epigenetics and how your emotions can actually change the way your genes are expressing. The second book Mind to Matter, which is really something that you must read, shows that the brain creates much of what we think of as objective reality. And his third book, Bliss Brain demonstrates that peak mental states rapidly remodel the brain for happiness.

Now, Dawson has conducted dozens of clinical trials and founded the National Institute for Integrative Healthcare to promote ground-breaking new treatments. Its largest program, the Veteran Stress Project has offered over free treatment to over 20,000 veterans who are suffering from PTSD. All for love, no money involved, an absolute amazing project. Dawson now shares how to apply these health and performance breakthroughs through his EFT universe. It was just an absolutely fascinating conversation with him. I'm very, very interested always in neuroplasticity because I was told, with my mum story, as you all know, that there was no hope that her brain would not be able to remodel and not be able to learn again and that is so far from the truth. In his new book, A Bliss Brain, award winning science writer Dawson Church focuses on the positive and negative mood and negative thinking and how it's associated with activation of brain regions like the prefrontal cortex - the state of yourself, and positive emotions such as altruism and compassion.

He blends cutting edge neuroscience with the stories of people who've had first-hand experience or brain change. And Bliss Brain really examines the effects of emotional states on brain structure. Suffice to say, you have to listen to this episode. I think if you're struggling with anxiety, struggling with stress, feeling the effects of ongoing long-term stress on your body and with illnesses and sicknesses and depression and all of these things that hamper just so many of us, so many of the people that I work with, and certainly I struggle with it on occasion, as well, then this is a book for you.

Dr. Dawson really emanates happiness and joy. But that wasn't always the case, he was someone who had suffered from depression quite badly in his early years. And this is what sent him down this great path. He manages to marry the science with the traditional things like Chinese medicine and Meridians and energy medicine. He's been able to quantify it so that people like me who love science in general open minded sceptics, I like to call myself, can actually understand why these things work. And that's really, really important.

Before we head over to Dr. Dawson. I just like to remind you, we have now our Patron membership for the podcast. If you'd like to get involved with the podcast, if you'd like to support what we do here at Pushing the Limits. We've been doing it now for five and a half years, and near on 200 episodes. I can tell you, into each episode goes a heck of a lot of work and a lot of research, and a lot of book reading, a lot of time. And we really need — to keep this on air — we really need your help. So if you'd like to come and support us and get a whole lot of extra member benefits, then head on over to patron.lisatamati.com, that's patron.lisatamati.com. You can join us in our tribe there. I would really, really appreciate you doing that. And as always, please give us a rating and review for the show because that really does help us as well and share it with your family and friends if you get benefit from us. I'd also love to hear from you, if you've got a question about one of the guests. If you want to dive deeper into one of the topics, please reach out to me, support@lisatamati.com.

I'd like to remind you too, that we also have our epigenetics program, which is our flagship program that we have that looks at your genes and how to optimise your genes, and how to understand the nuance of what foods, what times of the day, what types of exercise, what are your dominant hormones, what are your dominant neurotransmitters and how that plays out in your life. So if you'd like to join us for that, please head over to lisatamati.com and go under the Work With Us button and you'll see all the information there.

Now over to Dr. Dawson Church.

Lisa: Hi everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. I'm super excited to have you here with me today. I have an absolute legend, a man who has done so much research and so much good in the world, Dr. Dawson Church with me. Welcome to the show. Dawson, it's really, really exciting to have you with us today. Thanks for taking the time.

Dr. Dawson Church: For me, too, Lisa. We have had such fun now and the next hour. We just had off the air, this would be a fabulous time for you and me and everyone else combined.

Lisa: Exactly. We already had a couple of really good connections. That’s fantastic.

So, Dawson, well, you are an incredible man with a number of books. You have your research, you're an expert on the brain and the mind and body connection. Can you give us a little bit of background about how did you get into the space and what you've been studying? I mean, it's a big question, but we'll start there anyway.

Dr. Dawson: Well, let’s start right in the middle. I worked at a book about five years ago called Mind to Matter. It was really off the cuff project — I was interviewing scientists, I was trying to trace all of the scientific pieces, the links, the chain between having a thought and a thing. And I thought, “Well, I'll find some links to the chain, not others.” But I found all of them. It was so interesting to see how our thoughts literally become things, how our brains function like transducers, from the universal field of information and we then manifest those things all around us. While I was doing that I got into — so I've been meditating everyday for like 20 years plus — but I own some really esoteric forums, our meditation practice by masters who've done it like 10,000 hours. By the end, I find myself getting really, really, really, really happy. I was already a really happy person. But at the end, I had to find myself getting super happy, no matter what the circumstances. But we had to look at all why people who do certain styles of meditation gets so happy. That's why I wrote the book, Bliss Brain. I began the process, 50 years before that, as a teenager, when I was so toxically depressed and anxious and miserable. I was suicidal, I mean, I want to just kill myself when I was 12, 13, 14 years old. And I looked into my own eyes, walked past a full-length mirror one day when I was 15, looked into my own eyes, and I said to myself, those are the saddest eyes I've ever seen. I realised I was so messed up inside. So, I went to live on a spiritual community for many years. I learned meditation, learned energy healing, studied psychology. Wanted to figure out how I could make myself happier, and got a little bit happier over the years. And then when I began to meditate every single day, I didn't have to use energy therapies like EFT tapping, suddenly I got a lot happier. After Mind to Matter, doing these esoteric meditations, got super happy, I want to then just tell it to the world. So I had this epiphany. But I don't want to retreat every New Year's Eve and spend about two, three weeks just really getting quiet meditating, asking the universe, “What are my marching orders for the coming year?”

I was walking the labyrinth with a group of about 40 people at a meditation centre in New Year's, couple of years ago. I stood at the centre of the labyrinth at the stroke of midnight. And I just said, “Universe, what is your purpose for me in the coming year?” And the universe, I heard these words, they said, “We've given you the gift of happiness. Now, go give it to everyone else, too.” So that's really what I see myself doing now and where I came from originally and where I am today.

Lisa: Oh, wow, that is beautifully put in. So, Bliss Brain because you’ve written a number of books. Mind to Matter was the last one and then Bliss Brain is this one. And when people are listening to this, a lot of people will think, “Well, yes.” But is this, especially a lot of the people that are scientifically, believe in the science and they want evidence. What I found so interesting with your work is that you've met managed to marry the science, the quantified effects of energy medicine, of meditation, of pressure points, of EFT, all of these things is energy, things and actually quantified those with science in very rigorous-based, evidence-based, which for me is always a fascinating thing. Because I'm very much an open minded person, but I like to have that rigor, that sceptical mind, that prefrontal cortex that often jumps in and goes, “But is this real?” And you said, on the cusp between, being open minded and being scientific and you've seem to marry these two, just beautifully in your work and being able to quantify some of the ancient traditions the Chinese medicine, the Meridians, these types of things that have been known for thousands of years, but are now actually being shown to be correct and with science. Can you tell us about that?

Dr. Dawson: What's amazing is if you're taking a pedal instrument, handheld instrument, called the galvanometer. It's battery powered, it picks up the electrical resistance on your skin. And so, at my live workshops, I will run this over people's skin, and the little muscle device makes beeping sound whenever it hits an acupuncture point. And it's because those points are very, very high conductance, low resistance. You'll run this little deal over the person's face, nothing's happening, it'll hit an acupuncture point like this over here is on the bladder meridian, this point over here, and suddenly the machine goes crazy and starts beeping and flashing only in this tiny point about a millimetre in diameter, and no other surrounding skin. That's the exact point shown in a 2400-year-old Chinese scroll.

These ancients knew about all these points, energy flows, the chakras, the meridians, and so on. Now, we have instrumentation to measure them. At least the cool thing about the measurement process is, as we're measuring the effects of energy therapies, energy treatments, we're finding that as we quantify them, the effects aren't tiny. They aren't 3%, 5%. Sometimes they're astronomical. Like for example, the EFT. So in meta-analysis, meta-analys-s gathered together 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 studies into a bundle. And then, they extract all the information on a scale of how effective a therapy is. An effective therapy gets a score of two. A really effective therapy gets a score of five, and an extremely effective therapy is a score of eight. So two, five, eight, those are the three points in a meta-analysis that tells you whether a therapy has some effect or a huge effect.

In studies in meta-analysis of EFT tapping for anxiety on that 2-5-8 scale, the effect of EFT is 12. It’s off the odds, off the scale, off the chart. Same thing for depression, same thing for PTSD. So now that we're quantifying these therapies, meditation, EFT, other kinds of therapies, we're applying some of them, have incredible results at the level of the genome, proteins, proteins expression, enzymes, all kinds of processes in our bodies.

Lisa: Wow, that is, okay, because you've written a book called The Genie in Your Genes. It was a marvellous title because I studied epigenetics and genetics. I know that you collaborated on the book with Dr. Bruce Lipton. I was like that’s one of my favourite books of all time, and actually got me down this rabbit hole of epigenetics. And so, I've looked at epigenetics in relation to the food and the nutrition and the social environment and your neurotransmitters and these sorts of things. But when I heard you talking about how it affects, like meditation — you're able to see, I think it was 72 genes or something, where it actually changes the expression of those genes in real time, when you're doing these meditations. And these were areas, I mean you know the areas better than me, perhaps you can talk about it. Because I think a lot of people don't understand that we have a DNA that we've inherited from mum and dad, that's our code if you like. But all throughout life and throughout every day and with everything that we do, we're turning genes on and off for the want of a better description, up regulating or down regulating certain genes with our environment. So what sort of things can we influence through meditation and through EFT, and so on?

Dr. Dawson: That is the key question to ask me, Lisa. We can influence our gene expression with things like diet. You eat certain foods and eat really healthy foods is to turn on certain genes and result and certain processes in your body. And so, the early after they studied and study, 1999, 2002, were all about introducing dietary factors usually in experimental subjects of rats, mice, and then seeing how that affected their gene expression. But what I am much more interested in than things like drugs and external factors like food, is I am super interested in what we can do with this thing behind our bars over here and our beliefs and our attitudes and our energy. It turns out, I mean, that's funny you just mentioned, by done by remarkable, insight-filled therapist called Beth Maharaj. And she found that in an EFT session, a one hour EFT session of psychotherapy using EFT acupuncture tapping, all those acupuncture points, 72 genes were changed. And again, about 15% of our genome is fixed, like I am two metres tall, I have grey eyes and brown hair, not very much of that anymore, and I just have certain physical characteristics that are what they are. Those are fixed genes, but those are only about 15% of the genome. The other 85% is changed. When I have a negative thought, I start producing cortisol, I send a signal down to the medulla on my adrenal glands, my adrenal gland starts producing cortisol, and adrenaline. Adrenaline is your fast-acting, stress hormone; cortisol is your slow acting, but still, it hasn't two minutes and two minutes is turning everything on and off all kinds of other processes off in your body.

And so I'm doing that with my mind alone. If I'm having high cortisol day after day because I'm worried, because I'm stressed, because I’m anxious. Now, what I'm doing is I'm driving my body into this fight or flight state over and over and over again, chronic stress. It's depleting everything else, my body, my immune system, it results in muscular wasting. It literally, over time, produces calcification of the brain's learning memory centres. And you want a lot of calcium in your teeth, a lot of calcium in your bones. You do not want calcium in your brain, but it does. It literally deposits calcium in your brain's memory centres. So that is the effect epigenetically of our thoughts and our beliefs. So, it's so important that we take control of this, like there's a saying in the biology of belief that has positively positive thoughts releasing the ones going our way as having a dramatic effect on our physical bodies.

Lisa: And this is like, because I've seen those scans where you have the shrunken brain that's been exposed to a lot of stress. The hippocampus shrinks and the prefrontal cortex and then you have the healthy brain that's nice and plump on the other side, if you like. It is a very good visual because this is very much like we tend to think, ‘Well, yes, I'm stressed and but that's neither here nor there, toughen up and get on with it’ type of attitude. I think that this, I think we need to distinguish between short term hermetic stressors, which are good for us - the things like going in the sauna, or going into cold water or going for a run and exercise and things like that, that are slightly outside the comfort zone. But not these long-term or even medium-term stressors that are going on day for day and week upon week, and month upon month. Those are the ones that really, when you are affecting the genes on a daily basis and your cortisol, and your adrenaline are just pumping all the time.

And this is something like with my genetic makeup, I have a deficiency in receptors of dopamine, so I'm constantly after dopamine. I'm always chasing the source that I can never reach, right? And I have a lot of adrenaline and I was exposed to a lot of testosterone in the womb. So I have that personality that take action, risk taking, jumping, still playing, no strategy, that type of a personality. And these things really affect us.

However, I can take control of that through practice. I can do things that can actually help me control my innate biology if you like. So, how can people, I wanted to ask, because I think a lot of people won't know what EFT is, per se. Would you explain what that particular type of energy work is?

Dr. Dawson: EFT is very popular. It's used by over 20 million people worldwide. It's grown purely by word of mouth, there is no drug company, there is no advertising campaign, people study each other on EFT. It is often called tapping because you simply tap like this on acupuncture points. There are about 13 W's, commonly they're linked to the 13 meridians of the body. It's amazing. I'm working on a video now where I have to describe EFT in two minutes. And it's like the body's reset switch. A therapist used that in a paper, in a peer-reviewed journal recently. It's like pushing the reset button for your emotions. So if you're upset, you're angry or you're stressed whatever way, then you simply tap on these points very, very quickly and it resets you.

So, there are several of these points. While you are thinking about the bad stuff in your life, you combine that reflection of ruminating on the stuff that bothers you with the tapping. And if you ruminate on the bad stuff, what happens normally, if you're just thinking about the bad stuff, is you're sending a signal through those neural bundles and they're getting bigger and bigger and faster. That's what we call re-traumatisation. That's when you re-traumatise yourself and we find over time, that shrinks the brain; the brains of people who are traumatised as children are on average 8% smaller than those who weren't traumatised as children. Traumatic stress is, it isn't psychological, it's physiological. So that's what you're doing if you're retraumatising yourself.

If you remember that bad thing at the same time you tap, then what we see in MRI EFT studies is that the emotional midbrain gets all upset, it's all aroused as a result of thinking about the bad things. When you start tapping, all that arousal just goes down. For example, one veteran I was working with, because we work with over 20,000 veterans, giving them free treatment free of charge. What one veteran was really bothered by a memory when he was in Iraq, he was a medic. And right in the beginning of his tour of duty, one of his friends was shot. And so, he had to deal with all the gruesomeness of that friend's death. One of the things he had to do was he had to clean the uniform of his dead friend to send back to his mum and dad back in the US. Cleaning the human remains and tissue out of the uniform was tremendously triggering for him. He remembers this event, he was cleaning them out in the medic’s hut. And then he'd have to run outside to take a breath of fresh air because the smell was so bad that he'd run back in a little more cleaning, run back out again. We tapped on this terrible traumatic memory. He just then had this complete sense of relaxation. He said, ‘I'm so glad I was the person who got to clean that uniform because it was my way of honouring my friend’. And as his emotional midbrain calmed down, his story changed to where it was no longer one of tragedy, but one of honouring and one of love and one affection with his friend, and you do this act of service. So if he shifts brains function that way, and it shifts it in just a few seconds like that. There's no therapy, there's no elaborate attempt to understand how you are the way you are, you just tap while you're remembering the bad stuff, while all of those new neural pathways are fully engaged, that then calms the brain down immediately. And then I met this young man again, I saw him again, about three months later, talked about the uniform, talked about his dead friend, he was still totally calm about it. And we find in long-term studies, that once you break the association in the brain between that traumatic memory and going into fight or flight, the association stays broken, and people find later on down the road.

Lisa: That is absolutely amazing because I think, the longer we all live, we all end up with traumatic, hopefully not as horrific experiences as that. Are you aware I had last week on the show Dr. Don Wood, who I'd love to introduce you actually to. He is also a trauma expert who works with vets and PTSD and everything, addiction and so on. He has a four-hour program that he takes people into the, out of beta into alpha brainwave states and takes that high definition sort of movie that's playing in people's heads around this event or events. And he says, as a description, puts it into black and white, and it's no longer triggering. So probably a different direction to get to a similar result. But you think we can do this actually, in minutes with EFT, where you can actually take away the power of that memory. Because I mean, I've been through, unfortunately, my listeners know, I lost my dad, just seven months ago, eight months ago. It was a very traumatic event and process that we went through. The intruding memories, the recurrent nightmares, all of the horror that surrounds that event is very powerful, how much it drains your daily life and your energy. I've found, since that event, I've been doing various things, but it's still very, very raw and very real to me. You are triggered a hundred times a day, and it's just draining your power to be able to work fully in the world, and to be the best version of you that you can be. I sort of know that and I'm trying to work out ways. So this is definitely one that I'm going to jump into.

Dr. Dawson: Sorry, you lost your dad and what you'll find is that you don't have to let go at the normal sense. In fact, we encourage people to really grieve, really get into their feelings, that and then do the tapping as well. What happens is you process them very quickly. So we aren’t telling these veteran, ‘Don't think about the bad thing. Don't think about the death. Don't think about all the trauma’. We say, ‘Do think about it, but tap while you're doing it’. And then that breaks the association in the brain between that traumatic memory and going into that stress response.

So I really encourage you to do that because we've seen so many people do this now. We work with examples, with kids who lost their parents in the Rwandan genocide. Many of them, still 25 years later, have severe PTSD. We work with victims of school shootings in the US and various places. And again, mothers and fathers who've lost their kids in school shootings. We work with them successfully with EFT. So it's not like we're just working on superficial stuff, but it is that we're trying to work on what you’re being worried about in the report you have to turn it into your boss next week, and it also works on severe psychological trauma.

Lisa: This is so exciting. And it is like resetting the brain. I mean, Dr. Woods mentions that it's sort of like a error glitch, and you're just going round and round and you can't get out of this sort of pattern of things.

Dr. Dawson: Yes. The trauma loop, we call it the trauma loop. The trauma loop, it's literally a loop between the thymus, thalamus, hypothalamus, the hippocampus, the amygdala in the centre of the brain. What's supposed to be happening is that input associated be referred to the prefrontal cortex and other regions to moderate emotions. And it isn't; it's stuck in an emotional midbrain, looping and looping and looping. Here’s the thing is, you can't talk yourself out of it. Like I was worried about a situation at work a few weeks ago, and I would say to myself, ‘It's time to meditate now. It’s 6am in the morning, I'm meditating. I will not think about that thing at work’. Well, of course, within nervous sighs, obsessed with a theory, I say that ‘Dawson, I'm going to let that go. It's meditation time now. I'm not thinking about thing at work, I’m going to return my mind to the meditative state’. Now, the thing at work, we cannot talk ourselves out of it, our conscious minds hard, because our brains didn't evolve that way. Our brains evolved to be extremely attuned to the tiger in the grass, or the remotest possibility, the tiger in the grass. And if you had an ancestor who took her mind off the potential threat to focus on smelling the flowers —

Lisa: You wouldn't be here.

So it makes sense that we have this hyper vigilance. When you've got a PTSD situation going on, you're really hyper vigilant, and you're in this constant state. But it is even all the little things, like in preparation for this interview yesterday, I was just so into researching and stuff. And then all night, my brains just going about Dr. Dawson and what he's doing. Like at three o'clock in the morning, I had to get up and read, keep reading one of your books because it was just, it's not leaving my brain. And then I did my breathing exercises, I did my meditation and eventually went back to sleep. So, you gave me a bit of a sleepless night last night.

Dr. Dawson: I’m so sorry about that.

Lisa: But in a good way.

Dr. Dawson: At least you’re reading something good.

Lisa: Yeah, well in a good way, because I was excited about all this stuff. I think it's very powerful. As a health coach, and I work with people on a daily basis. Probably the first thing that people come to me with is depression and anxiety. And then all the health problems and in follow on from that, and that seems to be what so many people are dealing with on an absolute day to day basis. In our modern world, I think that a lot of these things, not that our ancestors didn't have stressors, because they obviously did. But we have perhaps, a hundred tigers coming at us a day in the form of grumpy emails from our bosses or whatever. The amount we have to process in a day for many of us, especially people working on computers and all that sort of stuff with a thousand things coming at you all the time. And it can feel like and so, often, I say when I say to people, ‘You need to do some meditation, and you need to calm the mind. You need to get out in nature’. But they go, ‘I haven't got time. I haven't got time. I'm working 17 hours a day, and I’m a mom of three, how the hell am I going to find time to meditate?’ What's your answer to that?

Dr. Dawson: Actually, you don't have time to meditate. In one piece of research, I talked about several of these in my book, Bliss Brain. One piece of research done by really forward thinking US agency called the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, they've been at the forefront of all kinds of parts of the human potential movement for the last 50 years. They did a study of complex decision-making. Now, this isn't whether I should have grilled cheese or macaroni for lunch, this is when you have to do a scenario that’s meant to solve global warming, or reduce the deficit or solve racial violence in a city. It's the really complicated problems. What they found was that when you're in a kind of flow state, generated by meditation, that people are 490 times better, percent better at solving complex problems; five times is good. Another study by the McKinsey Consulting Group found a 10 year study of high performance executives found that they are five times as productive when they're in these flow states. We're measuring flow now as people meditate, we're finding the same thing. So that even 15 minutes, 20 minutes spent at the end of the day will literally pay dividends. Another series of studies done by Harvard University found that if you do that for only an hour, meditate for an hour, you are more productive and more creative for 48 hours in the future. So you cannot afford not to meditate. The gains in productivity, problem solving ability and creativity are so enormous that if you don't spend that hour or that half hour, you are missing out on your biggest single leverage point for success in your life.

Lisa: Well, that's a really good argument for it. Have you read the book, we’re talking about Steven Kotler, have you read Stealing Fire?

Dr. Dawson: I love Stealing Fire, I’ve seen Steven Kotler several times on that and I use — and I have five books, in Bliss Brain and the acknowledgments say, ‘This book, Bliss Brain, was based, there five people really influenced me’. As Steven Kotler’s Stealing Fire was one of those five.

Lisa: His book really influenced me, too. It was like, ‘Wow, this is incredible stuff, understanding how to get into the flow state’. As an athlete and my background as a ultra-endurance athlete, we did stupid distances. I would sometimes get into that flow state, and I still can't do it at will, unfortunately. Maybe I need to meditate more. But the performance that you could bring when you were in that state was far beyond what you normally could bring, and understanding how to tap into that on an actual day to day basis. I find it, too, in a previous life, I was a jeweller as well, so I was a goldsmith in head shops, retail shops. And that I would get into the flow state making jewellery when I was creative, now in painting. So when I get time, do those types of things like painting and making something, do they qualify as meditation? I mean, what actually qualifies as meditation because a lot of people seem to think you have to be sitting on your floor or with your legs crossed and humming or something, doing a chant. Is that the only way to meditate?

Dr. Dawson: After World War II, there was a British engineer who worked on the radar system in the defence of Britain and his name is Maxwell Cade. And he put together a simple EG, and they had hook up spiritual masters. This EG, he was reading the five basic brainwaves — now, we know there are more than that — but he was reading the simple brainwaves. What he discovered is that he took up a Pentecostal faith healer, or a Taoist healer from China, or he hooked up a Confucian or in like a Buddhist or a Hindu or kabbalistic Jewish mystic. What he found was that even though their religious backgrounds and religious practices were totally different, they all have the same brainwave pattern. So that was the pattern of the mystics, we now knew what it was.

I talked about this in Bliss Brain, this void of discovery, as Maxwell Cade was doing this in the 50s and 60s. And then he had a student, at a wise he had hooked out. They said, ‘Well, let's hook up other people. Let's hook up Louie Armstrong. Let's look up jazz musicians in flow’. And they found same bliss brain pattern in them. They said, ‘Well, let's hook up some high performing executives and business people who are at their peaks and scientists’. So they found that regardless of the profession, whether in flow, they all have this characteristic brainwave state. The next thing that we had to realise over the last 20 years of MRI research is, now this is crucial, we used to think that it was just one of those happy accidents. There are only a few Louis Armstrong's. There are only a few Hussein Bolts. There only are a few Swami Vivekananda’s. We used to think these were special people. Once we discovered the brainwave state, some smart scientists then said, ‘Let's reverse engineer this. Let's train ordinary people to attain the same brainwave state’. And lo and behold, bliss brain, they could. We now like — I do seven, eight retreats sometimes. I'm doing virtual retreats now, but we do live retreats, usually once or twice a year. And the first day, it's going to take people, maybe we can induce that state, usually within 30 minutes. By the end of the retreat, start four minutes, they have learned to hit the state of a 10,000-hour meditation master. And they're doing it in under four minutes at the end by the end of the retreat.

So they're trainable now that we're reverse engineering them. And so one state, one way into the flow state is through meditation like the mystics do. The second way is through peak performance. Either way, you can get to that same state and be ignited by flow triggers that put you into that state, and they're reliable. They put you in that state every single time. And once you hit that state, Lisa, over and over and over again, the cool thing in bliss brain is all about addiction. For example, the one molecule that you generate in your brain in these deep states is called anandamide. It has the same chemical structure as THC, the active molecule in marijuana, docks the same receptor sites in your brain.

So you're flooding what are called your endocannabinoid receptors in your body and your brain, with natural THC, just generated by your own brain. It's a very big boost of serotonin. You're mentioning dopamine earlier, and I'm going to send you a meditation that, I've just been playing with this recently. This isn't available to the public and won’t be for about two years. But Mind Valley is working on a huge new program, and we're training people in this one meditation. They literally feel the rush of dopamine they get because dopamine is the same reward system as engaged by cocaine and heroin. So they're sitting there doing this meditation. They're getting serotonin, which is the same as suicide and magic mushrooms. Same Lego structure, they're getting anandamide, THC. They're getting the same molecules that are getting in ayahuasca cocaine and heroin and alcohol, all in one meditation. And so what we're now having to do, it's so crazy, we're bringing people to these ecstatic states, when you read Rumi and St. Catherine of Sienna. I mean, these people were in absolute bliss. Essentially their brains were full of these endogenous drugs. And so, we’re actually learning to generate these in people's brains. What we now have to do at the end of my meditations is you have to spend a few minutes, talk people down, talking them down off this high. They are so spaced out, they can't drive a car, they open their eyes off meditation, they don't know what planet we’re on. So we spend some time doing some orienting. ‘By the way, your name is what's the name again? What time of day, is it? Which country do you live in? What's your job?’ So we have to help them back into reality because they get so far out there, in just a few minutes of meditation. We’re now able to do that.

Lisa: Without any extraneous sort of, chemicals and things that can damage your impulse?

Dr. Dawson: No, none whatsoever.

Lisa: I have to ask this — because and this maybe outside the wheelhouse a little bit — when you're in those sorts of states, do you think you can connect? Is there a spiritual, wouldn’t you know? Do you believe that there's a spiritual dimension to what's on the other side, when people pass away, when we die? Is that what the mystics and some of the spiritual healers are tapping into something higher? I mean, I know we probably can't measure this, although I've just read some books on NDEs like near death experiences and the scientific rigor that a couple of these amazing scientists have spent years studying. What's your take, just your personal take on these higher states and being able to connect perhaps, to something beyond us?

Dr. Dawson: Albert Einstein wrote in the 1930s, he wrote that also the big discoveries have been made in that altered state of oneness with the universe. In chapter 15 of his book Think and Grow Rich, people think that Napoleon Hill's book from the 1930s Think and Grow Rich is about money, but it's actually about spirituality. It's about letting go. Napoleon Hill says, ‘I let go of my ordinary states, I enter an altered reality. And there I commune with St. Francis of Assisi, and Thomas Edison, and Napoleon Bonaparte, and all these great figures from the past. And that's where I download all of my answers, these questions from’.

So throughout history, people have been letting go of — what I call, now in my books, I call this local reality and non-local reality. And so in meditation, for a little while, you let go of local reality, and you simply identify with the field of consciousness that is the cosmos. There's this huge information field in which we swim in it. We're like fish looking for water. When we're looking for God or spirituality, we're like the fish looking for water. We're swimming in consciousness, and our brains are not generating consciousness. Our brains are transceivers of consciousness from this universal field. They then translate this universal appeal information into what we think of as local reality. But we're making up or making it up and we change our minds. When we shift our belief systems, when we orient ourselves deliberately to non-local reality, our local reality shifts dramatically and super quickly. Our brain shift, Lisa, in one of the examples I give in Mind to Matter, I talk about a TV reporter called Graham Phillips, who has a show called Catalyst. He went on an eight-week meditation retreat. They took his whole TV crew into a lab. They did a whole work up on his brain, his body. They use the high resolution MRI to measure the volume of neurons in each part of his brain. He then learned to meditate over the next eight weeks, and they brought him back to the lab after eight weeks ran the MRI scans again and the piece of his brain that is responsible for coordinating emotional regulation across different brain regions called the dentate gyrus — it's really tiny, it's about the size of a little fingernail, but it's right in the centre of your brain. It has tentacles going all over the brain and helps regulate being upset, being irritable, being angry, being annoyed, being stressed. That, the hardware of his dentate gyrus grew 22.8% in eight weeks. When you enter a non-local reality, it's changing the hardware of your brain, and it's not taking 10,000 hours, it's doing it in just a few hours. And he then started to see very different as your transceiver, transducer changes, then it is very different results outside of yourself.

So we are pure consciousness, we happen to be the body for a little while. We won't have a body forever. What you can do is every morning meditation. You can simply let go of local reality, you become one with non-local reality. The other cool thing there is when you come down from that space, Lisa, you are so full of love. I mean, I just cry when I come down. I walked on the beach the other day after meditation, I was just weeping with gratitude. I wrote in my journal, ‘My heart is just burning with love and bursting with gratitude’. Because you come down in the states of such ecstasy and the rest of the world in your life, and it is a world of magic. You then create that magic all around you. That's how I write my books. That's how I live my life, how I do my marriage and children and friends and everything. Well, I just can’t tell you how let's call this brain. It isn't like I'm feeling a little bit of hay brain, it is an ecstatic brain. I mean, in this exciting state, and becomes your new normal. Every day, it starts to change your physical brain. It starts to change the hardware of your brain, and then that starts to change your entire life.

Lisa: That sounds like a piece of something that I want. And I think, everybody who is listening will be like, ‘I want what that guy's got’. Because you emanate this. I've listened to many of your lectures and your talks and your podcasts and stuff, and you emanate this beautifulness — for want of a better description — it just seems to pour out of you. That is obviously the work that you've done. What I find, I was listening on Ben Pakulski, my amazing man. You're on his podcast, that was one of the ones that I listened to. He was talking about, as an athlete, and I've had an athletic background. As a young athlete, especially, and he said he was the same, we're actually running from stuff and we were fighting and we were forcing and actually probably brutalising our bodies in order to deal with something that was going on in our brains and trying to prove things. I think a lot of athletes live in that state and it's actually encouraged to live in that state, if you have a burning and I've even propagated the state and others. Where you're using the fire of anger, of being put down, of being let down to fuel your performance. And into a certain degree that works. I mean, being obviously, an incredible bodybuilder in my life that turned into running ridiculous kilometres and across deserts and so on. I don't run any more though stupidly long distances. One of the reasons is, I don't have the massive issues in my brain anymore. I have not needing to run away from something, prove something. I'm not saying that all athletes are doing this. But I do think that there is a large number of people who are handling things through expression of this sports, and how do you change that mindset? Because I still very much have that mindset. When I go to the gym, I'm there to smash myself, I'm going to punish myself, I'm going to work hard. I'm going to push through the pain barriers because that is the culture we've grown up as athletes. You work hard. If it's not hurting, then you're probably not doing it enough. How do we change that conversation and reach still these very elite levels without having that type of a mentality? Sorry for that.

Dr. Dawson: If you aren't in flow, you will injure yourself. I remember interviewing members of American football players and these are usually very large men. They’re very large men and they're very athletic, and they can jump like a metre share, vertical jump, and they reach remarkable speeds. They can start running and running really, really, really quickly, the catching. I remember this one young man said, ‘This is my million-dollar hand’. He was going to pay a lot of money as an American football star and he said ‘I've broken my fingers, at least one sometimes two or three times every season. And I can't afford to have this happen to my million-dollar hand’. After he learned EFT, after he learned to meditate, after he learned centring, getting into flow each game, he never broke another finger. He had one injury when he was just learning to meditate and do EFT. And they said, ‘Oh, it's the Achilles tendon injuries. You'll be out of the game for at least 12 weeks or maybe 16 weeks.’ Three weeks later, he was fine. And so, athletes, first of all, when they're in the zone, when they're in flow, they injure themselves less and their performance goes up. It's that old Yerkes-Dodson law, currently referred to a little bit of stress is fine. Anyone has a little bit of stress. Now what I'm what I'm getting at right now, I mean, to you and me, if I didn't have a fair amount of cortisol and adrenaline, I'd be a really boring guest.

Lisa: To some degree, we want that when we’re ready.

Dr. Dawson: We want that. Absolutely, but not too much of it.

Lisa: And like we're in a flow state, I'm in a flow state right now. Because I feel like I am because I just love learning from people like you. I'm just, give me more, all the heroes and stuff, because I'm learning and that is for me, one of my flow states studying and science. That really helps me. But how do we change that conversation for athletes? So that they're not going out to deliberately hurt themselves, but still able to reach those. I remember one story if you don't mind sharing, I think it was with your niece? Was it Jessica or something?

Dr. Dawson: Yes, Jessica.

Lisa: Do you mind sharing that story?

Dr. Dawson: Yeah, she is the national champion at rhythmic gymnastics. She meets me out there after the rank every year. So four years in a row, she was the US national champion. But again, she was pushing herself, she was collapsing inside. She was not doing it all well. On the outside, her performances look great. On the inside, she was just suffering and she eventually just couldn't go anymore, and just had withdrawn from the sport and collapsed. So that's not sustainable. What you find for the athletes who have a long-term career usually is they've learned to pace themselves. They've learned to reach that state of flow and stay there over time, they aren’t pushing themselves.

The other cool thing that happens, I've done a lot of work with women who are overweight or obese. They are often at war with their bodies, they have been ignoring their bodies, turning their bodies out, hating their bodies for over four decades. They don't like exercise on the whole. And it's hard for them to exercise. Like if you're heavy, there’s strain on your joints and your muscles. It's difficult to exercise, there's no great reward for exercising. So what we try to do, we don't even call that module of our program exercise, we call it joyful movement. Joyful movement. And so I say, ‘Go to the gym. Grab that maybe a 10-pound weight. And if you're just doing dumbbells and doing 10-pound weight, that's fine. If you have a goal of doing 10 reps, do as many reps as you feel good doing. Wait for the endorphin rush to kick in when you feel good. And the moment you feel bad, stop’. Now what they do is they then do eight and then they start to feel bad or stray, they stop at eight. Now they’re feeling an endorphin rush today. And maybe in the next week they feel the endorphin rush, and they're doing 11. But what has then happened is that they are associating going to the gym with pleasure neurochemicals, not with pain. And then you can't keep away from exercise. I mean, once you've learned to rejig your neurochemistry, to re-associate those exercise bands, or that piece of exercise equipment, or your kayak or your mountain bike with pleasure, rather than with compulsion and pain, then you find people are highly motivated to exercise. So we retrain them to do this. It also has the effect of listening and listening to their bodies. No longer is your body a threat and a problem. It's now something to listen to. It's a signal, ‘Hey, this doesn't feel good’. You stopped right away. So in my own workouts, if I decided to do 20 reps or something, and after 17, I'm no longer feeling good. I stopped at 17, then my body is saying, ‘Wow, 17 feels wonderful’. And then you completely change your conditioning to make that exercise a joy and a pleasure. After a while, you can't stop people going to the gym, if you use your own neurochemistry in an intelligent way like that.

Lisa: Well and you don't limit your performance when you do that? Because like, as an athlete you know that you have to endure a certain amount of pain to reach the next level, or that's what we've been told at least. You have to high intensity interval training and better back in CrossFit and rah, rah rah. The gentle approach, I can see being super good for somebody who's never exercised and just wants to break into this field, does the same apply for elite athletes wanting to get to the best that they can be? Because you're up against the competition that are training in this way of brute force training type of way. Is that as well?

Dr. Dawson: Yeah that too is a way of training, one way of training is the brute way of training. The other way is the supported way of training. That's a very good question. So that way works great for people who are getting into exercise for the first time. But what about people who are at that elite level?

There is a time to push yourself and there’s a time to back off. Only you know that. No one else can really tell you what that point is. But you know yourself. Like me, for example, I do a lot of mountain biking. There are sometimes where there's a long, steep hill. I’m exhausted and I think, ‘I'm exhausted, there's a steep hill ahead. I am just kind of go for it’. And it feels so exciting to do that. But if I had a coach saying, ‘Go for it’. If I was riding with somebody, and they would say, ‘Go for it’. I was trying to keep up with them. And I wasn't listening to my body, then probably I'd injured myself. That's what I have injured myself actually, in the past. So, you tune into yourself, and no one else is something no coach knew for you.

Are you meant to just put in that extra burst of effort? And then transcend yourself. We don't know for another person, we only know for ourselves. So it's really an interesting meditation. And again, it means being sensitive to yourself to know when to do that. The other thing is, it's not the same every day, we have by rhythm. Sometimes, we are just so in rhythm. That's the time to say, ‘I was planning on this 35-minute routine, I need to do the 55 minute routine instead.’ And you just know that day, ‘I’m so in-sync, my body wants to do that.’ You get good at reading your body and you know. I think the best lead athletes and how are some football players, the average football player in the National Football League in the US has about a 4-year career. How does someone like Tom Brady have a career that spans decades? You want these great athletes often, or great musicians or great scientists. They aren't a flash in the pan, they’re sustaining peak performance over time. I think they're the ones who are pacing themselves.

Lisa: Yeah. And are the ones that are listening to the body. I think, with training athletes, I often say, ‘If you start, you have to sort of look at how has your day been? How much sleep did you get? Did you hydrate? Have you had a lot of stress?’ Before you decide what your training is today. Even if we've put it on your plan to do a big, hard long training session, but you had a very bad night or something went wrong yesterday, then maybe today, we want to shift that out. And it's learning to be that sort of intuitive and rather than rigid, ‘This is what coaches said, and this is what I'm doing because I have to do that.’ The give and take means that you will eventually have more performance. I think, while others also, is in the recovery phase is where you actually get the benefit, not on the training phase. Contrary to people think that when we’re actually doing the weights is when we’re getting the strength. No, it's actually in recovery. So if you're not recovering properly, and you're just smashing yourself again the next day, then you're not going to get there with those wins anyway.

That’s just a new perspective for me to take on and maybe I'll be a little bit more gentler on mum in the gym today. She might be thanking you later, Dawson. I had her yesterday in the gym and we were doing weights. She doesn't like weight. She doesn't mind the treadmill and the bike and so on but when it comes to weights, I'm pushing her quite hard, “Come on, mom. You can do it.” Maybe I need to be a little bit more, how shall we say, sensitive.

Dr. Dawson: Yeah, also, if somebody you trust, like for example, a teacher will challenge you. A teacher will, we mentor people, we train people in EFT, in meditation and we train trainers, we train practitioners and that certified what's called clinical EFT, using EFT with other people. We push them. We definitely say that that's a challenge and we recommend you go for it. And sometimes your coach will see a possibility in you, you don’t see in yourself. Well very often we see that this person could be a brilliant healer, they might be a bus driver or a hairdresser, and we’ll say, ‘You can do this’. And we’re experts, we know that they can. So it does take an extra lie sometimes.

Also on the spiritual journey, take somebody that you talk to. I train thousands of EFT practitioners. I wrote the book EFT Manual, the most recent edition of the book. I've written about EFT and have done more research than anybody else in EFT and I have my own practitioner who may say to me, ‘Dawson, you need to sharpen up in this area. I think you can make a shift over here’. So we are living past the point of needing a trainer, of needing a coach, of needing extra eyes to look at us and to guide us, very, very useful at every stage of our development. We require even people who've been doing this for 50 years, they'd love to have their own therapist and do their own inner work. Because if you think you're past needing a therapist or doing your own inner work and alluded, there's always stuff to work on.

Lisa: That's a brilliant way of looking at it, and a very humbling approach to life. Now, I wanted to just shift gears a little bit, if I may, and talk about the bigger ramifications of changing our brain. Because when we change ourselves personally, we are also affecting our environment, our family, and then our community, and then our country, and then the world. If we're looking at the bigger picture, our world has some big major problems in it that we, and I think, we're not always focusing on the positives that are happening in our society because our media very much concentrates on just the negative. But if we all started to meditate today, and we all really adopted Dawson's approach and these other great researchers and scientists, and these people’s approach, to changing our own brains and how they're functioning in our own lives, and we're happy and nicer people, what sort of effect can we have on the environment do you think?

Dr. Dawson: I have a whole chapter in my book Mind to Matter on this. This is a phenomenon that's been studied over the past since the 1970s, called emotional contagion. And it began when one person noticed that in her workspace, in her office environment, there are good days and bad days. There are generally days when everything seemed to flow, people were nice to each other, the work flows smoothly. And then there were a lot of bad days as well. When people were grumpy and things didn't work. She realised that the good days were when one particular person was sick and took a day off. That one person was removed to the equation, everyone functioned better. And she realised that this was a phenomenon and she named it emotional contagion. We’ve now, have applied the — epidemiology is the study of infectious disease — we've now applied this in various research studies, to emotions, and we find that emotions are contagious.

So in one long-running studies, from guys since the 1950s called the Framingham Heart Study in Framingham, Massachusetts. And now includes five generations of inhabitants at Framingham. The researchers have found that a happy person is highly contagious, and actually produces contagion in her neighbour, and her neighbour’s neighbour, and her neighbour’s neighbour’s neighbour, who she's never even met. So when we are happy, you will literally — there’s this old saying Frank Sinatra in 1950 saying — ‘When you smile, the whole world smiles with you’. And it does, happiness is contagious. So when we do that, we're going to see a therapist, use EFT, take care of our physical bodies, love ourselves, tune into the infinite, tune into a non-local mind. It floods our hearts and our bodies, we feel so much better and we're just nicer to everyone around us. And they're nice people around them, that effect travels a long way.

In one study, I talked about in Mind to Matter, the researchers tweak the feeds of Facebook users, just a few dozen Facebook users, for a few days to make them either a little more positive or a little more negative. Just a tiny touch, more positive, more negative. And those people then pass those certain stories along in their feeds, and others and passed further stories along in their feeds. Within two weeks, they produce emotional contagion in 600,000 other people. So we are highly contagious, our positive energy.

I'll give you one example. Donald Trump is the previous president of the US and a tremendously polarising a triggering figure. And so, people talk about Donald Trump and I've been told so that we just lie or done something really harmful to other people, they get so offended. And so I really counsel people to stay in your heart and just hold Donald Trump and everyone in his party, in compassion, just hold. Take the people who offend you the most and hold them in compassion. Tune into their suffering and hold them in that way. When we do this, when we are as Jesus said, ‘Love your enemies,’ to go to them that hate you. Very good advice, even though it's 2,000 years old. When you do this, you're producing emotional contagion around you. You have no idea how far it's going. But as the Facebook study found, just a few people could produce emotional contagion in hundreds of thousands. So by becoming happy yourself, you walk around happy.

During the pandemic, we all like to wear masks all the time. One study found that when I talk behind the mask, so no one can see whether I’m smiling or frowning. People can hear by the tone of your voice, if you're smiling or frowning. They can tell with a very thin slice of information, what it is. So you're just talking to somebody kindly and nicely, that's using emotional contagion. There’s one story I tell in one of my books, Lisa, that just touched me was this guy who was having a really difficult time. His wife had left him taking with him, their two kids, he couldn't see the kids and missed the kids terribly. And then he lost his job. He just spiralled downward and decided to commit suicide. He’d been suicidal for a few months, but that was the day he decided he was going to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. He literally drove to the Golden Gate Bridge. There's a parking lot there, he parked his car, that he had to cross the serious bester and crossings to get to the bridge. And as he was having chills, I tell the story because such an emotional impact. But I just think of this guy. And so he was stopped at a light waiting for the traffic light to change. He looked at the car next to him. There was a woman, an elderly woman with long grey hair in the car, also stopped at the light. As he looked at her, she happened to look at him. And she smiled, she smiled at him. Suddenly he realised life was worth living. He turned around went back to stop with suicide. You have no idea of the effect you're having on other people. We're reducing emotional contagion and other people all the time. It might be your smile that stops somebody from doing something harmful, or gives them a sense of hope about their lives. So, we support each other, we love each other. And after a while you just live in this world where there is so much love, your sensitised love. You attract loving people into your life, you attract time people into your life, compassionate people. And so now suddenly, you're in this environment that is beautiful.

Are you struggling to deal with people who are homicidal and suicidal and nasty and mean and angry and stressed? Absolutely. And when I drive down the road, sometimes they'll be, maybe a young man and a pickup truck. And he'll be weaving in and out of traffic. They'll be angry. It'll be having episodes of road rage, and maybe have a finger. And that used to really trigger me. And now I say, ‘That guy is probably having a terrible day. He probably does not have a very good life. And I need to just love it.’ So I will just drive in my car in the slow lane. I shower him with love. Now, is that affecting him? Who knows? Is it bringing my cortisols down? Oh, yeah, absolutely. My cortisol is going down. I am now a better driver. I am now making waves to the people around me. So, we are agents of emotional contagion. I urge people in my books, go out and be an agent of conscious, positive emotional contagion with every thought you have, every word you say, you have no idea who might be affecting, and you will certainly be lowering your cortisol. But the other cool thing is, in one study I did recently, we show that when you lower your cortisol, this is people tapping and meditating for a week, they were doing this and they lower the cortisol. The cortisol went down by a huge amount, 37% drop in stat and baseline cortisol in only one week. Their immunoglobulins, which are these molecules are antibodies that attack coronaviruses, emitted lobules globulin is a y-shaped molecule that attach to the spike protein on the coronavirus and neutralise it. Those molecules in those people's mucous membranes went up 113%, more than double, in one week of tapping and meditation intensity in the retreat center. So we now know that, am I affecting the young man? I have no idea. Am I driving my own cortisol down and my own immunoglobulins up? Absolutely. I'm much healthier and I'm able to exert that influence on the world around me. So it is powerful to practice these things and be the agent of positive emotional contagion.

Lisa: That is so powerful. I've been guilty of this in the past when someone's cut me off in traffic, before I've even thought, before my prefrontal cortex is actually turned on the amygdala has gone, roar. And you're doing the bird out the window at this person, swearing at them. And then you can like now. When I was younger, I was a lot more volatile, and I come from a family of very strong people and a warrior background, if you like, from my native population. We tend to be quite, warrior-orientated. And now I am very much like that, I'm like, ‘I'm going to damage myself, if I react to this situation then I'm just hitting my cortisol up’. And one of the things, when I was studying our blood sugars and what happens with the blood sugars, how the cortisol sends your blood sugar's up and you actually put on weight — well, that was a very good deterrent from getting angry.

Dr. Dawson: Absolutely, weight gain.

Lisa: Weight gain because I got angry in traffic.

Dr. Dawson: One study found that optimists live on average, 10 years longer than pessimists. This was a 30-year study, both men and women over the course of three decades. The optimists live 10 years longer than the pessimists. So negative emotion, its battery acid inside your body, it's corrosive, it's really damaging your organs, gives you a much shorter and much more disease-filled life than optimism. So be optimistic, be altruistic. I mean, you feel good doing all those things, you feel much better. And of course, your health is dramatically better. Your longevity is at least a decade more than otherwise.

Lisa: And you do this through not just through positive thinking, because we all know I think that just, ‘I'm going to be positive today and the network's for five minutes’. The Positive Psychology thing. What he says, right? But through meditation, through connection, through being out in nature, and through all these things, that we've just talked about the last event is the way to get us more positive responses. That's what I'm hearing. And that's where it becomes more seen.

Dr. Dawson: Yes. Well, yes and no. There are two kinds of focuses that I've found are necessary. And I'm just putting a level playing field on the surface plane over here. One of those is being into the subconscious healing trauma. If you try and go for positive thinking, without healing trauma, it becomes the dark side, becomes repressed anger, repressed rage, and it actually will surface the subway and make itself known often as self-sabotaging behaviour, or repetitive negative thinking. So you have to do both. My initial — all my initial research for more than 10 years was with veterans with people who are traumatised, dealing with trauma. And that's great. So you need to go and deal with all that's holding you back. Then you want to go not just be at a neutral point where you don't have trauma, you’d want to explore peak states. Like imagine being in ecstasy every day, having those need and that serotonin that anonymise, that oxytocin, all these wonderful neuro chemicals flowing through your brain. And now you're hitting a peak state, you're starting your day in flow, and then you just go on from there and have a wonderful creative day. So you want to be doing both of those things simultaneously. This isn't the work of a week. This is the work of a lifetime, but it is so worth doing. Both the trauma, healing through EFT, EMDR, all these other wonderful energy therapies, and then cultivating these elevated states, bliss brain. And again, people reach these states, and they feel wonderful, as well as they're incredibly creative. And of course, their health improves as well. So both of those things.

Lisa: Yeah. Dawson, we’re going to have to wrap it up in a moment and I want to be respectful of your time. But I would love to have you back on because I don't think we've really covered everything.

Would you do me the honour of coming back in a month or two months, whenever your schedule, your crazy schedule allows. But I think we need to dig deeper. And I would like to actually put into practice some of these things that I've learned today and to go a little bit deeper into these things and see. And then be able to have that discussion with you and how our progress. So I think that would be a nice way to come back and actually look at a case study if you like.

Dr. Dawson: Yes, absolutely. Love to do it.

Lisa: Oh, so Dawson, how can people reach you? How can they find out more about your work? Obviously, your books, Mind to Matter, Genie —

Dr. Dawson: Genie in Your Genes.

Lisa: Genie in Your Genes and Bliss Brain, your main books that you have. Where can people find you online, find out about EFT, maybe start training with you, all that sort of stuff?

Dr. Dawson: Yeah, there are three places that you can go to. To get Bliss Brain, you can go to blissbrain.com and you get the book there, you'll see eight meditations that accompany each of the chapters of the book. And these are brief, they're under 20 minutes each, but they really help you get to those elevated emotional states. Mind to Matter is all about manifestation, about the link between thoughts and things, that’s mindtomatter.com. Then the Immunity Meditation I mentioned earlier is at dawsongift.com. So that's worth doing. We actually once, we got the results of two studies in showing these big rises in immunoglobulins and a special meditation to actually help people hit those peak states. And those are at dawsongift.com. So the two books mindtomatter.com and blissbrain.com and then the meditation is at dawsongift.com, those are the three best places. You also get a portal there for example, because we have practitioners who work with people 24/7 live video sessions in real time. We do a lot of workshops. I do Bliss Brain workshops, we have a big one coming up that's going to be in German, French, Spanish, as well as English. Lisa, I'm just obsessed with getting people this material. And also I'm so moved by people suffering. When I see people suffering, and I realise wow, if only they had this little piece of information, their lives would be so much better. So I just,

Lisa: You're beautiful. You’re amazing.

Dr. Dawson: Everyday obsessed with how to do that.

Lisa: Thank you so much for your service to everybody. I think this is incredibly important work. This is changing lives and I really thank you for digging really deep into the sciences and bringing this all to us. Because I'm seeing everyday people who are just completely – and in my own life. I've experienced my own traumas and so on, who have so much anxiety, so much trauma, so much PTSD, and being able to elevate a few people in your environment and change the way that you're living your life would just be absolutely fantastic. So thank you very much for your time today, Dawson.

Dr. Dawson: Oh, it's been a joy. Thank you. I look forward to our next get together.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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There's a stigma associated with unresolved trauma. Many people don't talk about their traumatic experiences. Unfortunately, we're only taught short-term solutions like coping with stress and managing our emotions. With these short-term solutions, the root cause remains unresolved. The trauma is still present and can affect our everyday lives.

In this episode, Dr Don Wood joins us to talk about how unresolved trauma can directly affect our health. He aims to remove the stigma around unresolved trauma, and the first step towards healing is understanding the pain we've gone through. He also talks about the power of our minds from the different stories of his past patients.

Tune in to this episode if you want to learn more about how unresolved trauma can affect your health and life.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn how unresolved trauma can affect your life and compromise your health. 2. Discover Dr Don's alternative ways of how he sees addiction. 3. Understand the power of our minds and how it can do anything to protect us from feeling pain.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for $7 and $15 NZD per month, respectively. * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * More Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Elena Seranova + 189: Increasing Your Longevity with Elena Seranova * Connect with Dr Don Wood: Facebook * Inspired Performance Institute – Learn more about Dr Don's books and the courses they're offering by going to their website. * The Unbeatable Mind Podcast: How to Deal with Trauma with Dr Don Wood * Brain Wash: Detox Your Mind for Clearer Thinking, Deeper Relationships, and Lasting Happiness by David and Austin Perlmutter * Emotional Concussions: Understanding How Our Nervous System is Affected by Events and Experiences Throughout Our Life by Dr Donald Wood

Episode Highlights [05:32] What Inspired Dr Don to Start His Career * Dr Don founded the Inspire Performance Institute because of his wife and daughter. * Dr Don shares that he had a quiet and idyllic childhood. He didn't experience any trauma. * His wife had a rough childhood which contributed largely to the unresolved trauma and fear she lives with today. * His daughter also inspired his research. She was diagnosed with Crohn's disease at 14.

[11:10] Dr Don Shares About His Childhood * He remembers he used to get bad stomach pains when he was young. They would go to their family doctor for a checkup. * His grandfather mentioned that he has stomach pains because of the stress at home. * Later on, Dr Don realised that he felt the pressure in their home. The stress from this manifested as stomach pains.

[15:00] Impact of Unresolved Trauma in Later Life * Dr Don believes that unresolved trauma creates inflammation in the body. It compromises a person's immune system and neurotransmitters. * A person gets sick and starts feeling bad because of serotonin neurotransmitters. They are affected by our guts' inflammation. * Unfortunately, the only things taught to us are managing and coping with the stress. We do not get to the root cause of the problem.

[18:10] Dr Don's Career Before Inspired Performance Institute * Dr Don has been an entrepreneur all his life. Before he founded Inspired Performance Institute, he was in financial services. * He realised that committing to Inspired Performance Institute meant studying again. * To add credibility to his name, he went back to school and got his Ph.D.

[20:31] What Causes Addiction * Dr Don doesn't believe that addiction is caused by physical dependency. It's more about how the mind connected using drugs and survival. * Because people feel bad, they find a way to stop the pain and feel better temporarily. Most of them find it in using drugs. * The subconscious mind tries to find a way to feel better. The conscious mind builds a habit based on it. * The interaction between these two memory systems is a factor in developing addictions.

[25:39] Subconscious and Conscious Mind * 95% of our mind works on the subconscious survival base. The remaining 5% is concerned with logic and reason. * The 5% uses reason and logic to make brilliant things in life. However, when survival needs arise, the part dedicated to survival overrides the other. * To learn more about Dr Don's analysis of the Time Slice Theory and how it's connected to how we respond to our day-to-day lives, listen to the full episode.

[35:08] Effects of Brain Injuries on Brain Response * People with repeated brain injuries might have problems with logical and survival thinking responses. * Brain injury patients have lower blood flow in the frontal part when faced with survival situations based on brain scans.

[36:03] Available Help for People Who Have Brain Injuries * Dr Don's son had three head injuries since he was young. The third one affected his communication skills and emotions. * He believes that his son has functional damage to his brain. Once they discovered that, they got him into hyperbaric oxygen therapy. * He started getting his blood flow into the areas of his brain that process his experiences.

[40:18] Probable Use of fMRI * Dr Don shares that fMRI can be another procedure that can help people with brain injuries. * fMRI can detect abnormalities in your brain that other methods may not pick up.

[42:26] The Story of Dr Don's Daughter * His daughter was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. It affected her career as an actress. * His daughter's condition made him realise: inflammation responds to unresolved trauma. * They managed to resolve her unresolved trauma that happened when she was six years old. Her mind understood that, and her negative response stopped.

[46:01] Talking About Depression * In cases of depression, the person's mind puts pressure on them to do something in the past. * Depression then becomes the absence of emotion. It tries to numb you from the stress in your mind. * When they get to the cause of what their mind needs and resolves it, their depression eases.

[48:02] Story of Rebecca Gregory * Rebecca was a victim of the Boston Marathon bombing. She came to seek help from Dr Don five years ago. * She has PTSD. Dr Don helped her realise the connection between her response to daily life and the memory she has. * To know more about the process on how Dr Don helped Rebecca tune in to the full episode.

[51:43] Similarities of Dr Don's Approach to EMDR * Dr Don shared that he also studied EMDr * In his practice, he used some of the techniques in EMDr He enhanced them to become quicker and more comprehensive. * Unlike EMDR, Dr Don's approach is faster and more straightforward. The patient can choose which way they would like to do it.

[54:36] Dr Don on Talk Therapies * He believes that talk therapy is good. You must deal with a current problem. * They aim to resolve the old issues that aggravate the new experiences.

[56:22] How Dr Don's Program Helped His Daughter * Crohn's disease is incurable. However, since his daughter underwent their program, her Crohn's didn't flare-up. * He believes his daughter's body has more energy to do maintenance and repair issues. It's possible because her unresolved trauma has been resolved.

[56:22] How Stress Connects to Our Other Unresolved Traumas * The daily stress that we encounter every day might pile up and affect us in the long run. * They might also connect and add up to our trauma, making it harder for us to cope. * We misinterpreted experiences when we were young that still affect us as we grow older. * Dr Don shares stories of how unresolved childhood experiences may affect a person as they grow up.

[01:08:15] People Have Different Filters * Dr Don says that people have different atmospheric conditions they grew up in. These factors affect how they filter and deal with their everyday experiences. * Our brain acts as the filter, and all of our experiences pass through that filter. The differences in how we operate upon those experiences are based on them. * Dr Don proceeds to share different stories of his patients regarding the differences in people's minds.

[01:15:06] Dr Don on Smoking * Dr Don says that smokers are not addicted to nicotine. They need the sensation of feeling better. * The mind of a smoker associates feeling better to smoking. This link causes addiction. * You can break the habit by introducing a new, healthier factor.

[01:19:17] A Better Approach Towards Addiction * Many approaches to addiction make the person feel useless. They surrender to never getting better. * Dr Don pushes a system that empowers people. He makes them realise they can overcome their addiction by understanding the cause.

[01:24:42] How the Mind Reacts to Pain * Dr Don shares that the mind is powerful enough. It will do anything for you to stop feeling pain. * People who commit suicide act in desperation to stop the pain they're feeling. * He shares the story of the German sniper. It can represent the power of the mind in reaction to pain.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I really started the Inspired Performance Institute because of my wife and daughter more. Mostly my daughter than anything else.’

‘So if I had been a little frustrated with something that worked that day, or is, you know, some other thing that was nothing related to her, she could pick up on that tone change. And then, in her mind, what her mind would be doing is saying, “What do we know about men when they start to get angry?” And a whole bunch of data and information about her father would come flooding in and overstimulate her nervous system.’

‘And so when my daughter was 14, she was diagnosed with Crohn's. And they just told us that you just kind of have to, you know, learn to live with this.’

‘And that's really what led me to develop the program, is I realised that when my daughter was 16, she disclosed to us some sexual abuse that she had had when she was like six years of age that we had no idea. So my wife was, obviously both of us were devastated, but my wife was extremely, she had experienced, you know, sexual abuse as a child and thought she would never let that happen to her child.’

‘How could the body crave a substance that it doesn't know? It doesn't regulate heroin. How could it crave something that doesn't regulate? I believe it's the mind has made a connection between the heroin and survival.’

‘What's happened is your mind has been calling for an action for many, many years, that was impossible to accomplish. But your mind doesn't know that and it keeps putting pressure on you. “Do it, do it, do it.” And because you don't do it, it's using these emotions to call for the action, it stops calling for the action, it shuts off the emotions. And so now depression is the absence of emotion.’

‘I believe in a lot of cases, that's what they're doing, are trying to desensitise you to it. You know, talk about it enough, maybe it doesn't feel as dramatic. And talk therapy has its place so I'm not against it. I think where talk therapy is really good is when you're dealing with a current problem. Where I think the difference between what we do is we're able to get the talk therapy much more effective when you take out all the old stuff that keeps aggravating the new stuff.’

About Dr Don Wood Dr Don Wood, Ph.D., developed the TIPP method after researching how atmospheric conditions affect our minds and impact our lives. In his search for answers for them, Dr Wood connected trauma and their health issues. He also recognised the daily stress they lived with. The only solutions provided came from medications. His experience with his family provided the determination required to develop a cutting-edge neuroscience approach.

The program has benefited individuals all over the world. The results have been impressive. Dr Wood has helped trauma survivors from the Boston Marathon bombing attack and the Las Vegas shooting. He has also helped highly successful executives and world-class athletes. Marko Cheseto, a double amputee marathon runner, broke the world record after completing TIPP. Chris Nikic worked with Dr Wood and made world news by becoming the first person with Downs Syndrome to complete an Ironman competition.

The Inspire Performance Institute was built on this simple phrase, ‘There's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with your mind’. Some events and experiences have created some glitches and error messages for your mind during your lifetime, and all you need is a reboot.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can understand how unresolved trauma can affect our overall health and well-being.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Lisa Tamati: Welcome back, everybody to Pushing the Limits. Today I have Dr Don Wood, who is sitting in Florida. And Dr Don is a wonderful man. He is a trauma expert. He is someone who had a problem in his own family and sought about finding a solution. He is the developer of the TIPP method, T-I-P-P method. He spent years researching, and to understand how our minds affect our bodies. Dr Wood made the connection between trauma and health issues. In addition, he recognised the daily stress that people live with when they've been through trauma, and that the only solutions provided in the normal conventional world and medications. But his experience with his family provided the determination required to develop a cutting-edge neuroscience approach, a real holistic solution that provides immediate and long lasting relief for people who have been through trauma of any sort, whether it's small or large. The TIPP program developed by Dr Wood has benefited individuals all over the world. And he really wanted to create a solution that removed the stigma of trauma. Too many people are afraid to ask for help because of that stigma. And that's why he named the program around increasing performance levels. The name of his institute is the Inspired Performance Institute.

I really love this episode with Dr Don Wood, he is a lovely, amazing person with a way of helping people get rid of PTSD, get rid of trauma out of their lives. So that they can get on with being the best versions of themselves. And that's what we're all about here. He's worked with everyone, from soldiers coming back from wars to victims of the Boston Marathon bombing campaign, to highly successful executives and world-class athletes. He's been there, done that. So I really hope that you enjoy this conversation with Dr Wood.

Before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we have our new premium membership for the podcast Pushing the Limits. Now out there. It's a Patron page so you can be involved with the program, with the podcast. We've been doing this now for five and a half years; it is a labor of love. And we need your help to keep this great content coming to you, and so that we can get the best experts in the world and deliver this information direct to your ears. It's a passion that's been mine now for five and a half years and you can get involved with it, you get a whole lot of premium member benefits. And you get to support this cause which we're really, really grateful for. For all those who have joined us on the Patron program. Thank you very, very much. You know, pretty much for the price of a cup of coffee a month, you can get involved. So check that out at patron.lisatamati.com. That's patron P-A-T-R-O-N dot lisatamati.com.

And just reminding you too, we still have our Epigenetics Program going. And this, we have now taken hundreds and hundreds of people through this program. It's a game-changing program that really gives you insights into your genetics, and how to optimise your lifestyle to optimise your genes basically. So everything from your fitness, what types of exercise to do, what times of the day to do it. What, whether you're good at the long distance stuff or whether you be a bit more as a power base athlete, whether you need more agility, whether you need more work through the spine, all these are just information that's just so personalised to you. But it doesn't just look at your fitness, it looks at your food, the exact foods that are right for you. And it goes way beyond that as well as to what are the dominant neurotransmitters in your brain, how they affect your mood and behaviour, what your dominant hormones are, the implications of those, your predispositions for any disorders and the future so that we can hit all those off at the past. It’s not deterministic, that is really giving you a heads up, ‘Hey, this could be a direction that you need to be concerned about in the future. And here's what you can do about it.’ So come and check out our program. Go to lisatamati.com. And under the button ‘Work With Us’, you will find our Peak Epigenetics program. Check that out today. And maybe you can come and join us on one of our live webinars or one of our pre-recorded webinars if you want to you can reach out to me, lisa@lisatamati.com, and I can send you more information about their Epigenetics Program. Right, now over to the show with Dr Don Wood.

Hello, everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have another amazing guest for you. I've found some pretty big superstars over the years, and this one is going to be very important to listen to. I have Dr Don Wood, welcome to the show, Dr Don.

Dr Don Wood: Thank you, Lisa. I'm excited to be here.

Lisa: This is gonna be a very interesting, and it's a long-anticipated interview for me, and Dr Don is sitting in Florida, and you've got a very nice temperature of the day, isn’t it?

Dr Don: Oh, absolutely gorgeous- low 80s, no humidity. I mean, you just like I said, you couldn't pick a better day, it's very fast. I would have tried to sit outside and do this. But I was afraid somebody would start up a lawn mower.

Lisa: Podcast life. I’ve just got the cat wandering, and so he's probably start meowing in a moment. Now, Dr Don, you are an author, a speaker, a trauma expert, the founder of the Inspired Performance Institute. Can you give us a little bit of background of how did you get to where you are today, and what you do?

Dr Don: Well it’s sort of an interesting story. I really started the Inspired Performance Institute because of my wife and daughter more. Mostly my daughter than anything else. I talked about this, is that I led this very, very quiet, idyllic kind of childhood with no trauma. Never had anything ever really happen to me. You know, bumps along the way, but nothing kind of that would be considered trauma. And I lived in a home that was so loving and nurturing, that even if I got bumped a little bit during the day, you know, was I, when I was a kid, I'm coming home to this beautiful environment that would just regulate my nervous system again.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: So I believe that that was critical in terms of having my nervous system always feeling safe. And that really resulted in amazing health. I mean, I've been healthy all my life. And as an adult, when things would happen, I could automatically go back into that nervous system regulation, because I had trained it without even knowing it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: that I was able to get back into that. Well. And so when I met my wife, I realised she was not living in that world. And amazingly enough, Lisa, I thought everybody lived like, because I had no idea that a lot of my friends were being traumatised at home. That I had no idea, because everybody's on their best behaviour. If I come over, everybody's behaving themselves and you don't see it. My friends, a lot of times wouldn't share it because of either shame or guilt. I mean, my wife, nobody knew what was going on in their home.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And she had one best friend that knew, that was about it. And if you met her father, who was really the bad guy in this whole thing, everybody thought he was the greatest guy. Because outwardly, he came across as this generous, hard-working, loving kind of guy. Loved his family, but he just ran his home with terror.

Lisa: Wow. Terrible.

Dr Don: And so, oh, it was terrible. So when I met my wife, I realised, wow, this, because we got close very quickly, because I had the chance to play professional hockey in Sweden when I was 18. So we got married at 19. So very quickly, I was around her a lot, while we were sort of getting ready for that. So I got to see the family dynamic up close very quickly. And that's when I realised, boy, she's not living in that world, which is living in fear all the time. And that's why I sat down with her one day, and I just said, ‘Tell me what's going on here. Because I can sense this tension in here. I could sense that there was a lot of fear going on. What's going on?’ And she started sharing it with me, but swore me to secrecy. Like I could never tell anybody because of all that shame and guilt, because nobody really outside the home would have been aware of it.

Lisa: Or probably believed it.

Dr Don: Or believed it. Right.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And then it was again, that ‘What will people think about me? What do they think about my family?’ That's really common, when you have people who have experienced trauma like that. And so, I sort of follow along and said, ‘Okay, this will be our secret,’ but I thought to myself, ‘Well, this will be great now, because I'm going to get her out of that home’.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And she's going to be living in my world. So everything will just calm down, and she'll be feeling that peace that I've experienced all my life.

Lisa: Not quite so simple.

Dr Don: I was like, Well, how is this not helping? Like, why now? She's living in the world that I grew up in because I was very much like my father. I wasn't gonna yell at her, scream at her, do anything that would have made her feel fearful. But she was still living in fear.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And if, yeah, and if I said something like, ‘No, I don't like that.’ She could tear up and start going, why are you mad at me? Yeah. And I would be like, ‘Oh my God, like where did you get I was mad at you for?’ I just said. That made no sense to me at the time. Now I understand it perfectly. What I didn't realise at the time was that people who have been traumatised are highly sensitive to sound—

Lisa: Hypervigilant and hyperaware of noise and people raising their voice.

Dr Don: Any kind of noise. And what she also, as a child, she had learned to listen very carefully to the way her father spoke, so that she could then recognise any kind of the slightest little change in my vocal tone. So if I had been a little frustrated with something at work that day, or, you know, some other thing that was nothing related to her, she could pick up on that tone change. And then, in her mind, what her mind would be doing is saying, ‘What do we know about men when they start to get angry?’ And a whole bunch of data and information about her father would come flooding in and overstimulate her nervous system.

Lisa: So then it's like they Google search, doing a Google search and going, ‘Hey, have I had this experience before?’

Dr Don: Yeah.

Lisa: And picking out, ‘Yeah, we've been here before. This is not good. This is dangerous. This is scary.’

Dr Don: Yep. And that's actually what led me to the research that I did, mainly because of my daughter, though. So my wife lived with that, she developed Hashimoto’s. So she had this thyroid issue with, because she was constantly in a fight or flight state.

Lisa: Yeah, the cortisol.

Dr Don: More flight than anything. Yeah, cortisol. And so when my daughter was 14, she was diagnosed with Crohn's. And they just told us that you just kind of have to learn to live with this. And she's going to be on medication for the rest of her life. And we'll just continue to cut out pieces of her intestines until she has nothing left and she’d have a colostomy bag. That's just the way it is.

Lisa: Oh. And she’s 14 years old.

Dr Don: She was 14. Yeah. She ended up having for resections done, she would go down to you know, 90, 85 pounds. She’d get so sick, the poor thing. No, because she just couldn't eat. Yeah. And she couldn't hold anything down. And they just told us to have no answers. My wife did unbelievable research, trying to come up with answers and really couldn't come up with anything except this management system that they've been given her. And so, I was adopted. So we didn't know my family history. Yeah. So our family doctor was my grandfather. And I didn't know this until I was 18.

Lisa: Oh wow.

Dr Don: I always knew I was adopted. But my mother shared the story with me when I was 18. That he came to my parents and said, I have a special child I want you to adopt, right. Now. I guess you just knew that my parents were just amazing people. And you know, at that time, you know, unwed mothers, that was considered a shame. Right? You didn't talk about that. So that was a quiet adoption.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: In fact, his wife didn't even know about it.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: Could be my grandmother. And that's, it's interesting, the story, because I should share this too. Because what happened was, is I never understood why my birth certificate was dated two years after my birthday. And what happened was, is that my parents adopted me, like immediately upon birth. But my grandmother found out about it, his wife found out about and sued my parents to get me back.

Lisa: Oh.

Dr Don: And so they had to go into this legal battle for two years.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr Don: Now I remember when I was really, really young, I used to get these really bad stomach pains. And I, and they took me, I remember going to doctors, I was really young. I remember going to doctors, but my grandfather was very holistic at the time for an MD. So you know, I was on cod liver oil, and you know, all these different things like, and so what he said to me, he says, No, he's just stressed out because of the stress in the home. You have to take the stress out of this home. He's feeling it.’

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Don: Right. So it's not that my parents were yelling, screaming.

Lisa: He’s ahead of his time.

Dr Don: Oh, way ahead. But what he realised was that, because it was so hard financially for them, that had a major effect on their life. So I guess I was feeling it. And so they went out of their way to take all the stress out.

Lisa: Wow. What lovely parents.

Dr Don: Oh yeah. So it created this unbelievable, unusual home life. And so I never had any real tension in the home.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: Well, that was, I guess, as my wife said, we were the perfect petri dishes for this because I was living what we want to be, and she was living in the opposite world of what a lot of people do live in. And so at least I knew what the model was, what we were going for.

Lisa: And when we're exposed to trauma very early in life, it has a much bigger impact on your health and everything then when it happens later in life. Is that right?

Dr Don: Absolutely. Because we've never learned how to balance our systems, so then it stays, you know, in dysregulation a lot more than it did. And that's really what sort of led me to develop the program, is I realised that when my daughter was 16, she disclosed to us some sexual abuse that she had had when she was like six years of age that we had no idea. So my wife was, obviously both of us were devastated, but my wife was extremely, she had experienced, you know, sexual abuse as a child and thought she would never let that happen to her child.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: So now my poor wife has also got a new, you know, trauma onto her. And so that's where it really came down to, is, you know, she said to me, ‘You could research this and find out what's going on, because I have no answers.’ And that's when I started to research and I made the connection between trauma and these autoimmune issues, for example, that my wife had, and my daughter. And so what I discovered is that I believe that unresolved trauma creates inflammation in the body. The inflammation compromises the immune system and your neurotransmitters. So we start getting sick, and we start feeling bad because our neurotransmitter, serotonin is produced mostly in the gut. So the serotonin is affected by the inflammation, which was from my daughter, right? She's not going to feel good.

Lisa: Nope.

Dr Don: And then that just leads to a host of other problems. And it's, it's really, really sad that the only solution that we currently are using is to teach people to live and manage and cope with it.

Lisa: I think, yeah, so we, we know, which is, which is good. You know, we're learning things, how to cope with anxieties, and breath work and all that sort of good stuff. But it's not getting to the root cause of the problem and being able to to deal with it. So when we're in a heightened state of stress and cortisol, and when we’re taking energy away from our immune system, and blood literally away from the gut, and and from a neurotransmitter production, and all that sort of thing, so is that what's going on, and why it actually affects the body? Because this mind body connection, which we're really only in the last maybe decade, or 15 years or something, really starting to dig into, isn't it? Like there's and there's still a massive disconnect in the conventional medical world where this is the mind, and this is the body. And you know, from here, up and here, and it's separate.

Dr Don: And so on and so forth? Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. And it we’re one thing, you know. And so this has a massive effect on our health, and it can lead to all sorts of autoimmune diseases, or even cancers, and so on. So you were at this time, so you didn't have the Inspired Performance Institute at this stage? What were you doing professionally? And then, did you go back and do a PhD? And in...? Wow.

Dr Don: I've always been an entrepreneur all my life. So I was in financial services, we did a number of different things. We, my son and I, still have an energy business, we do solar energy and stuff like that.

Lisa: Oh wow.

Dr Don: I decided if I was going to do this, I needed to go back and really study. So I went back and got by, went back to school, got my PhD.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: And, you know, to truly, to try to add credibility, number one, to what I was doing. Because, you know, people are gonna say, ‘Well, who are you? Yeah, you know, why should we listen to you? You never had any trauma and you're supposed to be an expert? Like, how does that work?’ You know, it's the same thing with addiction. You know, I help people with addiction. I've never had a drink in my life, never touched a drug in my life. Now that I say, but I know what addiction is.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: I don't believe addiction is a disease. I believe it's a code that gets built from pain.

Lisa: Yeah, let's dig into that a little bit. And then we'll go back to your daughter's story. Because addiction, you know, it's something I know from a genetic perspective. I have a tendency towards, towards having addictive nature, personality traits. I chase dopamine a lot. I have a deficit of dopamine receptors. And so I'm constantly going after that reward. Now that's worked itself out in my life, and in running ridiculous kilometres and working ridiculous hours, and not always in negative things. Luckily, I've never had problems with drinking or drugs, but I know that if I had started down that road, I would have ended up probably doing it, you know, very well.

Dr Don: You’d be a star as well.

Lisa: I’d be a star in that as well. And luckily, I was sort of a little bit aware of that and my parents never drank and they, you know, made sure that we had a good relationship with things like that, and not a bad one. Have struggled with food, though. That's definitely one of the emotional sort of things. And I think a lot of people have some sort of bad relationship with food in some sort of way, shape, or form on the spectrum, so to speak. What is it that causes addiction? And is it a physical dependency? Or is there something more to it?

Dr Don: Yeah, that's why I don't believe it's a physical dependency. Because here's the way I look at it is, people will say to me, ‘Well, if I stopped this heroin, the body's going to crave the heroin, and I'm going to go into withdrawal.’ And my response to that is, ‘How could the body crave a substance that it doesn't know? It doesn't regulate heroin. How could it crave something that doesn't regulate?’ I believe it's the mind, has made a connection between the heroin and survival. Because you have felt bad, right? Because of trauma, or whatever it is, whenever you took the heroin, you felt better.

So I had a lady come in who had been on heroin. And she said to me, she's, ‘Well, I told my therapist, I'm coming to see you. And he told me, I had to let you know upfront and be honest and tell you I have self-destructive behaviour.’ And I just smiled at her. And I said, ‘Really? What would make you think you're self destructive?’ And she looked at me, because this is what she's been told for a year.

Lisa: Brilliant.

Dr Don: She says, ‘Well, I'm sticking a needle in my arm with heroin, don't you think that's self destructive?’ And I said to her, I said, ‘No, I don't think it was self destructive. I think you're trying to feel better. And I bet you, when you stuck the needle in your arm, you felt better.’ That nobody had ever said that to her before. And so I said, ‘Now, the substance you're using is destructive, but you're not destructive? What if I could show you another way to feel better, that didn't require you having to take a drug?’

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: And I said, ‘You're designed to feel better. And I believe that the brain, what happened is, is it because you felt bad, you found a resource that temporarily stopped that pain.’ And you see your subconscious mind is fully present in the moment. So when does it want pain to stop? Right now. And if that heroin stops the pain right now, then what happened was, is that system, you have two memory systems, you have explicit memory system that records all the information in real time. So it records all the data, and stores. No other animal does that. We’re the only animal that stores explicit details about events and experiences. We also have an associative procedural memory that we learned through association and repetition over time. So, because the explicit memory kept creating the pain, because we kept thinking about it, and looping through this pain cycle, you started taking heroin, then you engage your second associative memory, which learns through repetition and builds, codes, habits, and behaviours.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: Because you kept repeating it your mind built a code and connected up the pain being relieved by the substance.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: Now, your subconscious mind is literal. So it doesn't understand negation. It only understands what's happening now. And so if your mind says that substance stops the pain, it doesn't look at the future and consequences of it. It only looks at what's happening. It's only our conscious mind that can think of consequences. Your subconscious mind, which is survival-based only understands. That's why people at 911 would jump out of the buildings. They weren't jumping to die, they would jumping to stop from dying. Yeah, if they didn’t jump, they would have died right now. So even if they went another two seconds, they weren't dying now.

Lisa: Right? So it’s really in the right now, there's really no right now. It's really in the seconds.

Dr Don: And the very, very milliseconds of what's happening now. And there's no such thing as consequences, it’s basically survival. So now, if you keep repeating that cycle over and over using heroin, and then somebody comes along and says, ‘Lisa, you can't do that. That's bad for you. I'm going to take that away from you.’ Your survival brain will fight to keep it because it thinks it'll die without it.

Lisa: Yeah. Makes a glitch.

Dr Don: It's an error message.

Lisa: Have you heard of Dr Austin Perlmutter on the show last week, David Perlmutter’s son and they're both written a book called Brain Wash. And there they talk about disconnection syndrome. So the disconnection between the prefrontal cortex in the amygdala and the amygdala can be more powerful when we have inflammation in the brain. For example, like inflammation through bad foods, or toxins, or mercury, or whatever the case may be. And that this can also have an effect on our ability to make good long-term decisions. It makes us live in the here and now. So I want that here and fixed now; I want that chocolate bar now. And I know my logical thinking brain is going, ‘But that's not good for you. And you shouldn't be doing that.’ And you, you're trying to overcome it. But you're there's this disconnect between your prefrontal cortex and your amygdala. And I've probably butchered that scenario a little bit.

Dr Don: No, you got it. But 95% of your mind is working on that subconscious survival base. It's only about 5% that's logical. That logical part of your brain is brilliant, because it's been able to use reason and logic to figure stuff out. So it created the world we live in: automobiles, airplanes, right, computers, all of that was created by that 5%, part of the brain 5%. However, if there is a survival threat, survival will always override reason and logic. 100% of the time.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: So you can't stop it. And it's what I talked about was that time slice theory. Did I mention that when we were going?

Lisa: No.

Dr Don: When I did my research, one of the things that I found was something called the time slice theory. And what that is, is that two scientists at the University of Zurich asked the question— is consciousness streaming? So this logical conscious part of our mind that prefrontal cortex, is that information that we’re, as you and I are talking now, is that real, coming in real time? And what they discovered is, it’s not.

Lisa: Oh.

Dr Don: The 95% subconscious part of your mind, it's streaming. While let's say your survival brain churns in everything in real time, processes that information, and then only sends pieces or time slices, because your conscious mind cannot handle that detail.

Lisa: Oh, wow. So they’re filtering it.

Dr Don: Filtering it. And yeah, so as it takes it in, processes it, and then sends time slices or some of that information to your conscious mind. Right? But there's a 400 millionth of a second gap in between your subconscious seeing it, processing it, and sending it. And when I read that, that's when I came up with the idea that what's it doing in that 400 millionth of a second? It's doing a Google search, see? And so in that 400 millionth of a second, your survival brain has already calculated a response to this information before you're consciously aware of it.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: And so the prefrontal cortex has got a filter on there to be able to stop an impulse, right? So it's the ventral lateral prefrontal cortex is sort of the gatekeeper to say, ‘Okay, let's not go into a rage and get into trouble. Let's try to stop that.’ So we have that part of our brain. However, here's where the problem comes in— You're driving and traffic and somebody cuts you off. And so your first response is, you get angry, because this person is like, ‘Oh, I want to chase that guy down and give him a piece of my mind.’ But that part of your brain can say, ‘Let's think about this. Hold on,’ you know, even though it's 400 millionth of a second later, the first anger response, then it should be able to pull that back. Here's where the problem comes in. If getting cut off in traffic looked like you had been just disrespected. During that Google search, your now, your subconscious mind has filtered through every experience of being disrespected. And so much information comes in that it cannot stop the response. It overrides it, because now it feels threatened. And our prisons are full of people who had been so badly hurt, that that part of their brain can't do that. You and I can probably do that. Right?

Lisa: Sometimes.

Dr Don: Because we can say, sometimes? You know, you can run them down. You can leave the car. But that's where the problem comes in. Yeah, can't stop that, then that rage and all those things come in. And that affects your relationships could affect all kinds of things. And people would say, ‘Oh, you got an anger management problem. We're going to teach you to live with, you know, and manage that anger.’ What I'm saying is ‘No, it's a glitch. We don't need all that data coming in.’ Right, good response, a Google search is creating the problem.

Lisa: Like there's so many questions while hearing what you just said that, and I've experienced in my own life where with my family, where the initial response is so quick, that someone's punched someone else before they've even thought about what the heck they are doing. In the, when you said that, disrespected like this is, you know, I think when I've gotten really really angry and overreacted to something, when I think about it logically later, and a couple of times were of, like, in my early adult years, I was in a very abusive relationship. Thereafter, when I would get into another relationship, and that person tried to stop me doing something, I would just go like, into an absolute fit of rage. Because I was fighting what had happened to me previously, and this poor person, who may have not even been too bad, got the full barrels of verbal assault. Because I just reacted to what had happened to me 10 years previously. And that's the sort of thing where I felt like I was being controlled, disrespected when he went in. So that Google search is happening in a millisecond.

Dr Don: 400 millionths of a second. you couldn't have stopped, impossible for you to stop. And then people would say, ‘What's wrong with Lisa? She's just normally a great person, but where is that coming from?’ Up until now, you may not have known that. But that's what it is. And it's impossible for you to have stopped. It was the same thing when my wife and I would say, ‘No, I don't like that.’ And she would start to cry. I'd be saying, ‘Gosh, what am I doing to make this woman cry?’ It wasn't what I said. It was what I said that activated her Google search, which then flooded into data about her father. She was responding to her father, not to me. We both didn’t know that; we all thought that she was responding to what I just said.

Lisa: Isn't this always just such complex— and if you start to dissect this, and start to think about the implications of all this, and our behaviour, and our communication and our relationships, so much pain and suffering is happening because we're not understanding, we're not, we're angry at people, we’re disappointed with people, we’re ashamed of things that we've done. And a lot of this is happening on a level that none of you know, none of us are actually aware of. I mean, I liken it to, like, I know that my reactions can sometimes be so quick. Like before, my, just in a positive sense, like effect glasses falling off the beach, I would have caught it with my bare hand before my brain has even registered it. I have always had a really fast reaction to things like that. That's a clear example of, like, that permanent brain that's in the here and now, has caught it before I've even realised that's happening.

Dr Don: You know, and that's why I always say to people, ‘Did you choose to do that?’ And they'll say, ‘Well, I guess I did.’ I go, ‘No, you didn’t.’ Didn’t just happen that happened before you could actually use the logical part of your brain. And because it was so much information, right? Even though the logical part of your brain would say, ‘Well, you know, don't lash out at this person. They didn't mean that.’ It would already have happened. Yeah, I worked with a professional athlete. He was a baseball player playing in the major leagues. And I explained that concept to him. And then we were at a, one of his practice workouts, and his pitcher was throwing batting practice behind a screen. And so as he threw the ball, this guy, my client hit the ball right back at the screen, and the coach, like, hit the ground. Right? And I stopped right there. And I said, ‘Great example.’ I said, Did your coach just choose to duck?

Lisa: Or did he automatically do it?

Dr Don: He had no, he had no time to use exactly. The logic. If you use the logical part of your brain, what would you have said? ‘This ball can hit me; there's a screen in front of me.’

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. But you know—

Dr Don: No way logic is going to prevail, when there's a threat like that coming at you. Yeah.

Lisa: This is why it's important because we need to be able to react in that split second, if there really is a danger and there's a bullet flying in ahead or something like that or something, somebody is coming at us from, to do us harm, then we need to be able to react with split second timing.

Dr Don: But you don’t want that logic coming into it.

Lisa: No, but we do want the logic coming in when it's an emotional response. Do you think like, when people have had repeated brain injuries, they are more likely to have problems with this, you know, the prefrontal cortex not functioning properly and even being slower to respond or not getting enough blood flow to that prefrontal cortex in order to make these good decisions?

Dr Don: Yeah, absolutely. And if you look at SPECT scans or brain scans of people who have had those kinds of injuries, you'll see that that part of the brain, that frontal part of the brain, the blood flow will drop when they get into those situations.

Lisa: Wow. And then they can't make a good decision. And here we are blaming them for being—

Dr Don: Blaming them for being—

Lisa: —and they end up in prisons, and they end up with hurt broken lives and terrible trauma. And, you know, it's not good if they react and hit somebody or kill somebody or whatever. But how can we fix this? And that one of my go-tos is the hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And I've heard you talk about that on a podcast with Mark Divine in regards to your son. And that is one way we can actually help our brains if we've had had a traumatic brain injury or PTSD or anything like that, is that right?

Dr Don: Yeah, my, like I said, my son had three head injuries, one in elementary school, one in middle school, one in high school. And the first one, we didn't see as big an effect. But he did have a problem. The second one, he ended up with retrograde amnesia. And then the third one, we just saw him go downhill and just really couldn't communicate very well, didn't have any energy, had a lot of anger issues and they just kept saying he's got major depression, you need to medicate them. And I was like, ‘No, I believe we've got traumatic brain injury.’ But I could not get them to give me a script for a SPECT scan or an fMRI. It was impossible. And I wasn't looking for the structure, because they'd look at an MRI and they'd say, ‘We don't see any damage.’ Well, it wasn't the physical damage we're looking for, it was a functional damage that we were looking for.

Lisa: Yeah, the blood flow. Yeah.

Dr Don: And once we discovered that that's what it was, we got him into hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and he started getting the blood flow into the areas that he needed to process what he was experiencing. And so if you can, you can imagine how difficult that would be, somebody saying, well just go over there and do that. And you don't have the ability to process it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And so that frustration there is anger would be coming from just complete frustration.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: That he just couldn't do it's like, you know, you ran in somebody and you couldn't lift your right leg.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: Right. And somebody said, ‘Just start running.’ ‘I'm trying.’

Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

Dr Don: It would be very, very frustrating.

Lisa: Yeah, I mean, having worked with, you know, my mum with the brain injury for five and a half years, and I will tell you, man, that is so frustrating. And still, even though she's had well, you know, must be close to 280 or something hyperbaric sessions, and gone from being not much over a vegetative state to being now incredibly high functioning. But there are still some pieces missing that I cannot get to. Because obviously damage in the brain where parts of the brain cells are, have been killed off. And we, you know, I'm really having trouble with things like vestibular systems, so, or initiation of motivation, and things like that. And hyperbaric can do a heck of a lot, it can't fix areas of the brain that is actually dead. So I, you know, and we don't have SPECT scans over here, this is not available. We don't do them.

Dr Don: Yeah. And they’re hard to get here. I just don’t understand them.

Lisa: They're very frustrating, because they just are so powerful to understand. Because when you see you've got a problem in your head, that it's actual physical problem, then, you know, it takes away the blame the guilt, and you know, like, I was having this conversation with my brother, and I'm, you know, talking about Mum, and why isn't she doing this, that and the other end. And I said, ‘Because she's got brain damage, and we can't get her to do that thing.’ ‘But she's normal now. She should be doing that now.’ And I'm like, ‘She's much, much better. But in that part of the brain, I haven't been able to recover.’ It is still a thing. That is the year. That is, I am, not that I'm giving up on it, but you know, there are just certain things that we haven't quite got the full thing back.

Dr Don: The SPECT scan would show that. And you'd probably see it, or do they do fMRIs there?

Lisa: I haven't checked out fMRI because yeah.

Dr Don: Check out the fMRI.

Lisa: I only heard you say that the other day, and I didn't, I knew about SPECT scans and I knew about. Dr Hearts and all the SPECT scans that he's done, and Dr Daniel Amen and the brilliant work on it all and I've searched the country for it. And New Zealand there's, they've got one that does research stuff down in New Zealand and I think but it's it's nobody can get access to it. And it's just, oh gosh, this is just such a tragedy because then we can actually see what's going on. Because people have been put on antidepressants. They've been put on, you know, antipsychotic drugs. Some things that are perhaps not necessary. We could have, we could have dealt with it with other other ways, like hyperbaric and like with, you know, good nutrients, and even like your program that you do that would perhaps be the first line of defense before we grab to those types of things. But—

Dr Don: The fMRI would definitely probably help you. So it's, you know, a functional MRI. Yeah. So it's going to give you blood flow. I just had a young boy come in, nine years, nine years old, having real issues. And anyway, his mum's gone everywhere, tried everything. And I said, have you done an fMRI? She says, oh we’ve done the MRIs. But, and I said, ‘’No, you need an fMRI.’ She'd never heard of it. No, I was telling her about it.

Lisa: I hadn’t even heard about it either.

Dr Don: She didn’t want to do SPECT scans, because SPECT scans are going to put something into your system, right? So she didn't want any kind of dyes, or any kind of those, you know, radioisotopes and stuff like that. So the fMRI is the other answer to try to get that.

Lisa: Oh, okay. I'll see whether they've got that, they probably haven't got that either. I'd say, probably having Dark Ages with a lot of things.

Dr Don: There's so many things like that, that would give you answers that they just don't do, which is surprising to me. Because when you think research, I mean, you find out how effective they are, why wouldn't they do it? You know, they just won't.

Lisa: Oh, yeah, like one of those doctors who was on my podcast, and we're talking about intravenous vitamin C. And he said, I said, ‘Why is it taking so long when there's thousands of studies proving that it's really powerful when there’s critical care conditions like sepsis, what I lost my father to?’ And they said, ‘Yeah, because it's like turning a supertanker. There’s just 20 years between what they know in the clinical studies to what's actually happening in the hospitals.’ He says at least a 20-year lag. And this is just, when you live in New Zealand, probably a 30-year lag. We’re just just behind the eight ball all the time, and all of these areas of what's actually currently happening.

I wanted to go back to your story with your daughter. Because she's got Crohn's disease, 14 years old, diagnosed, having to hit all these restrictions, and that she's going to have to manage it for the rest of her life. And she will never be well. What actually happened? Because we didn't actually finish that story.

Dr Don: Well, like I said, so she had, you know, suffered for many years with that, and she's an actress, so any kind of stress would just aggravate it. So she would constantly be getting sick, because, you know, the more stress she has, the more inflammation she's creating, and then she would just get sick and go back to the hospital. So it has really affected her career. So that's when my wife said, ‘You've got to come up with some answers.’ And so I did the research. And I really believe that it was a trauma as a child that continued. Because this is when I made the connection between unresolved trauma and inflammation. Inflammation is the response to trauma, whether it's physical or emotional. And the purpose of the inflammation is to protect the integrity of the cell. So the cell gets into an enlarged space. So it sort of puffs out, gets enlarged and hardened to protect it from getting penetrated from any kind of foreign invader.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: So the idea behind it is, it's a temporary pause, because there's been an injury. So the idea is, we need to protect this area. So let's protect it and not let anything get into the cells while, until the danger has passed. So this temporary pause in the system, temporarily suspends the immune system, temporarily suspends the processing of the cell until the danger passes, and then the immune system can come in and clean up, right and take care of everything. The problem was, is that my daughter's trauma was never resolved. So those cells in her intestinal area stayed in an active cell danger response, in an inflamed response, because as far as it was concerned, she was continually being assaulted.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: Because it kept looping through the trauma. Yeah. So once we took her through this program, and we resolved it so that we were able to stop her mind from constantly trying to protect her from this threat as a six year old, because your subconscious doesn't have any relationship to time. So if you think about something that happened to you when you were six, that's happening now. So in her mind, she was being hurt now. And until we got that updated, so it’s like a computer, I say your brain is a computer. Your body is the printer.

Lisa: Oh, wow. That’s a good analogy.

Dr Don: And so if the brain has an error message, it’s going to affect the printer.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Don: So in her mind, that trauma kept on looping. As soon as we got that corrected, and her mind understood that there was no memory— the memory was still there, but the activation of our nervous system stopped, the inflammation went down.

Lisa: See, that's it, like your body's calling for action. I've heard you say—

Dr Don: That’s when it processes the emotion.

Lisa: Yeah. So when you think back to a traumatic event in your life, and you start crying and you're reacting as if you were right there in the in, which, you know, I can do in a split second with some of the trauma that you know, been through. That means that there is a high-definition in your brain, that those moments in time are just locked in there, and causing this, the stress response, still now. And that's why you’re crying years later, for something that happened. And it's actually calling for action. It's telling you to do something. But of course, it's a memory you can't do something.

Dr Don: So action required, you know I think that’s the glitch, the error message that I talked about. So if you think about something that happened to you five years ago, and you start to feel fear, or cry, your heart starts pounding in your chest, your mind is saying ‘Run,’ five years ago, because it's seen it in real time. Now, it's impossible to run five years ago, but your mind doesn't know that. So it's going to continue to try to get you to run. And so a lot of times when I talk to people who have depression, one of the things I asked, I'll ask them is, ‘What are you angry about?’ And they'll go, ‘Well, no, I'm not angry, I'm depressed.’ And I'll say, ‘What's happened is your mind has been calling for an action for many, many years, that was impossible to accomplish. But your mind doesn't know that and it keeps putting pressure on you. Do it, do it, do it. And because you don't do it, it's using these emotions to call for the action, it stops calling for the action, it shuts off the emotions.’

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: And so now depression is the absence of emotion.

Lisa: Right.

Dr Don: And so what is done is to protect you, it's shut down the request.

Lisa: Everything down. So you go sort of numb, numb and apathetic and just—

Dr Don: Because you can't do what it’s been asking you to do. And so it's been calling for that action for many, many years. You don't do it. And so it says, ‘Well, this isn't working. So let's just shut the system off for a while. We won't ask for the action anymore.’ And so that's why the people are depressed. And as soon as you get to the cause of it, what has your mind been asking you to do and you resolve it, then your mind stops calling for the action. And then the depression will lift.

Lisa: You had a great example of a lady that you worked with. Rebecca Gregory, was it from the Boston— can you tell us that story? Because that was a real clear example of this exact thing.

Dr Don: Yeah. So Rebecca came to see me five years after the Boston Marathon. She was three feet from the first bomb that went off. And so her son was sitting at her feet. So when the bomb went off, luckily she shielded him, but she took the brunt of the blast. She lost her left leg. And five years later, she's having post-traumatic stress, right? And she says, ‘I have nightmares every night. I heard about your program. I heard that you can clear this in four hours.’ She says, ‘Iy sounds too good to be true.’ But she says, ‘I'm completely desperate. So I'll try anything.’ And so she came in and sat down. And what I explained to her as she started to talk is, I said, ‘Rebecca, do you know why you're shaking and crying as you're talking to me right now?’ And she says, ‘Well, because I'm talking about what happened to me.’ And I said, ‘That's right. But your mind thinks a bomb is about to go off. And it's trying to get you to run.’ And I said, ‘But there's no bomb going off. It's just information about a bomb that went off. But your mind doesn't know that.’ And that, she'd never heard before. And so what we did is over the next four hours, we got her mind to reset that high-definition data that had been stored about the bombing into a regular alpha brainwave state, right, where it's very safe and peaceful.

So she could recall it and she could talk about it without the emotion. Why? Because, now we're not going for happy, right? You know, it's still sad that it happened. But what we're trying to stop is that dysregulation of the fear, the call for the run. That stopped. And you can watch your testimonial on her on our site, and she just talked about, she goes, ‘I just couldn't believe that you could stop that.’

Lisa: But in four hours.

Dr Don: And then now she can go out and she spoke all over the country. You know, she was a very high-profile lady who did a lot of great work in trying to help people. But she was still suffering with post-traumatic stress. Yeah, trying to help people who were experiencing post-traumatic stress.

Lisa: She knew what it was like.

Dr Don: She was living it. Same thing. I tell the story, it’s another dramatic one was a US Army sniper who had to shoot and kill a 12 year old boy.

Lisa: Oh, gosh.

Dr Don: And when I first sat down and talked to him, he was just sobbing. And he said, ‘I just can't live like this anymore.’ And by the time we were finished, he could then describe everything that happened that day, including shooting. And he said to me, goes, ‘How the bleep did you do this? Like, how am I able to talk about it now? And I said, ‘For eight years, your mind's been trying to get you not to pull the trigger.’

Lisa: And you can't go back in time.

Dr Don: But your mind knows you're not pulling the trigger now. So it stopped calling for the action. It's just information now.

Lisa: And so, is this similar to EMDR? I did a few sessions of EMDR when we lost our little baby boy a couple of years ago. And in that time, when I was doing it, I thought, this isn't working. But when I look back on that traumatic event, I no longer have the response, really, to— it’s sad, but I don't, but I'm not like I was in the months after that. And I don't, I wouldn't say I'm completely, you know, out the other end of that particular trauma, there's been more since that I'm still dealing with. But it definitely did something. And I don't know what, it was a lot of eyeshifting and going home. What was it? Is it similar to what you do? Or is it different?

Dr Don: Yeah, I studied EMDR. So what we do, so that's a technique some of the techniques I use in EMDR I'll use. But I think what we've done is enhance it even more. I've made it even quicker and even more comprehensive.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Don: And EMDR. How many sessions did you do in EMDR?

Lisa: I think I did four.

Dr Don: So yeah, so they're gonna be between 4, 8, 10? Right. We're doing one.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't sure immediately after it had done anything. But I must admit, yeah.

Dr Don: And it does, because what it's doing is getting that memory reprocessed, which is what we're doing. But we do it much simpler, like I don't need much detail at all. In fact, I've sat with people, you know, a person said, if a woman had been raped or sexually assaulted. The last issue was to sit there and do is start describing what happened to her. So what I do is I say, we got a, we got three different ways of doing this one, you can talk about it if you'd like to, and I'm going to take you through the techniques, right, to get your mind to reprocess it. Or two, I'm just going to do strictly visually. So I have no idea what you experienced. I'm not going to know any of the details, which feels very safe.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: Or third, what I say is I'm going to teach you a new language, and it's called flowing. There's only one word and the flowing language, it’s flowing. So instead of saying, I walked into the room, you're gonna say flowing, flowing, flowing, every word is flowing. The advantage to that is she has to go into memory to see it and bring up the images.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: But I have no idea what it is.

Lisa: Yeah. You don’t need to hear it.

Dr Don: I don't need to hear it. And then I take her through basically a two to three minute technique. That's all. And at the end of that, it's updated.

Lisa: That's incredible.

Dr Don: And my wife used flowing with me, right? Because it was some things that were, for me, she didn't want to share.

Lisa: Fair enough.

Dr Don: Right? Yeah. And that was fine. And so I tell them, whichever way you want to do it. I said, ‘If I needed to know, I would ask.’ I said, ‘But if I'm asking, it's just from curiosity.’

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: But it's not necessary. That is radically different. Right? For people who have experienced really severe trauma. And it's very, very, you know, safe and very pain free.

Lisa: And what, so what is it, what, we have talked therapies where we, you know, go to a counselor, and we spend years sometimes working through our childhood traumas and our, whatever traumas have happened since and we don't seem to get anywhere, which is a lot of time. It might feel good in the moment that you're sharing, and being able to express yourself, but it doesn't really work. In my experience, at least. What is the difference here? Are we just reliving and actually enhancing these memories when we just talk about them all the time, and not actually deal with them?

Dr Don: I believe in a lot of cases, that's what they're doing, are trying to desensitise you to it. You know, talk about it enough, maybe it doesn't feel as dramatic. Yeah. And talk therapy has its place so I'm not against it. I think where talk therapy is really good is when you're dealing with a current problem. Yeah, current stress maybe in your marriage, whatever, and learning how to handle what's going on right now. Where I think the difference between what we do is we're able to get the talk therapy much more effective when you take out all the old stuff that keeps aggravating the new stuff.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Don: So if you're in a current stressful situation, and it's been aggravated, because every time you talk about it is bringing in all the data of the old stuff, then it's very difficult to deal with. So that's, I think what we do, which is really different, and makes everything much more effective.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense to me. And with, going back to your daughter, because we so we, she is now managed to get on top of her Crohn’s. I mean, Crohn’s is an incurable disease, apparently.

Dr Don: That’s what we were told, yeah, that there’s no cure for Crohn's.

Lisa: What did you do with her to actually because it's that physical thing, and there are a lot of people out there listening probably have Crohn's or IBS, or something like an autoimmune disease, or can, how did that work out with her? And, you know, why is that sort of a really amazing story?

Dr Don: Well, all I know is that after we took her to the program, she hasn't had a Crohn's flare up. So I'm not saying that we can cure Crohn's with our program. Exactly. What I do know is that after she went through the program, she hasn’t had a Crohn's flare up. So to me, there's a correlation between her nervous system and the activation of her Crohn’s. And so once we got that settled down, so Crohn's could be, may not be just from that. There could be other reasons for it. So you never know. So somebody could do our program and not have that same reaction. But what we do see is a lot of different, because when we talk about, I believe that there's imagine more like a cell phone, you plug in your cell phone at night, right? We go to sleep, we charge up, we wake up with 100% of our energy. Then how much of that energy do you have available to do maintenance. So if you've got a lot of maintenance and repair issues, you're draining a lot of energy.

Lisa: Oh, yeah.

Dr Don: And if your mind is looping through a lot of trauma that's pulling a lot of energy away from your ability to do maintenance and repairs. Yep. And so I talked about when I played hockey, which is a pretty brutal sport, I had six concussions, 60 stitches, and I never missed a hockey game. Now at the time, they just said, ‘You just heal fast, faster than most people.’ What I didn't realise is, I believe the reason I healed fast was because I was getting much more maintenance done.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: At nighttime when I slept. Because I didn't have a lot of trauma that my mind was constantly looping through. So it wasn't pulling energy away. So if I'm getting two or three times the maintenance and restorative sleep, of course, I'm going to heal faster. How could I not?

Lisa: Gosh. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Really. Yeah.

Dr Don: And that's why I've been healthy all my life, I just don't get sick.

Lisa: So super immune system.

Dr Don: Very powerful immune system that can fight whatever comes at me. And again, we talked about vitamin C, if ever, I feel a little tickle in my throat, or I start to feel that, I just pound in vitamin C, you know, 4000, 5000 milligrams, vitamin C, and it’s gone.

Lisa: Immune system jumps into gear, because you don't have these stressors. So when we talk about stress being so detrimental, you know, we talk about it all the time, stress is bad for us, and what you know, excessive stress, there are good hormetic stressors, where we go for exercise, or we get in a sauna, or we do cold therapy, and these are short, temporary stressors that cause cascades of changes in the body that make us stronger. But when we're exposed to chronic stress, which is like what we're talking about, traumatic events, and you know, like I also wanted to say there's not just, somebody died, someone's legs been blown off, someone's you know, been to war. These are not just those big, big, traumatic things. These are these daily little things that start to add up as well that can be traumatic stressors, can't they? It's not just the big ones.

Dr Don: That's what I wrote my second book called Emotional Concussions. So they're those bumps, right? That little concussion that you feel like, ‘Oh, I'm okay, right. Yeah, I had a bump on my head. But now I seem to be okay.’ Those add up, those little emotional concussions can add up, or can also get connected to other ones. And so you don't realise how they're affecting you.

So I've had people come in who will say, you know, ‘I've never had any real trauma in my life, I've been fine. There's nothing wrong.’ And then all of a sudden waterworks will start when they start thinking about something that happened to them when they were a child. As an example I had a lady come in. She had been adopted by the stepfather, her mother got pregnant at 18, didn't marry the father, then married another gentleman who then ended up adopting her and having two other children. And so when she was about six years of age, the original, her natural father wanted to meet her. And her stepfather said something to the effect that ‘You were a mistake.’ And she said, ‘I hated my stepfather. I made his life agony for him.’ She'd never connected up that event. She just said, ‘I just never liked him. I gave him such a hard time all the time.’ She goes, ‘My brother and sister loved him.’ She says, ‘I just hated him.’ And it came down to that event. And so in her mind, right, once we got and we got that event resolved, and here's how we resolved it. I said, ‘Is it possible—’ So once I've got you in this very, very peaceful restorative mindset, right, then we start looking at some of this information. So when we looked at it, she was crying when she talked about she's, ‘I remember my stepfather saying that I'm, I was a mistake.’ When we look at it, when she's in this very restorative mindset, I said, ‘Is it possible that what he said, isn't what he meant? Is it possible that's a saying that people say, “Oh, that was a mistake.” But they didn't mean you're the mistake.’

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: Right. It probably wasn't the best thing for your mother to have a baby at 18 out of wedlock, right. However, that that had never really occurred to her that that could, because a six year old child doesn't have enough life experience to understand that statement. In her mind, ‘I was a mistake. He thought I was a mistake.’ And so as we're going through this, all of a sudden, she said to me, she says, ‘I just had this flood of energy coming into my chest right now.’ And she says, ‘You know, what just came into my mind? him sitting there braiding my hair when I was little.’ She said, ‘He was a good man, I just never gave him a break. And now I sort of see what my brother and sister saw. He really was a good guy.’ Right? So this in her mind—

Lisa: Just one event. Just that one event. One slip of the tongue, so to speak, or, you know, taken the wrong way, or, you know, an adult conversation that a child’s misconstrued, it doesn't even have to have bad intent behind it.

Dr Don: With sometimes no ill intent. My wife had a similar situation where when she was really little. She's living in this dramatic household and gets invited to when she was like, six, seven years of age to a tea party by the mothers in the neighbourhood. And the grandmother dresses her all up nice and pretty. And she goes there. And I remember her telling me the story and crying. And she says, when she got there, the mothers as she walked in, looked at her and one of the mothers said, ‘Oh, look at this one, this is going to be a real heartbreaker. Oh, yes, this is going to be a real heartbreaker.’ My wife as a child has been so hurt already. What she hears is they see something bad in her. She grows up and hurts people. And she says she felt sick to her stomach, she just wanted to go home.

Lisa: Wow, completely at the wrong—

Dr Don: As an adult, still had that impact on her until we got it resolved.

Lisa: And so these little things that as parents that makes you go, ‘Oh, my God, what damage have I done? Just because I yelled at the kids the other day because they couldn’t have any lollies or something if I did, it’ll damage them.’ It does make you feel a bit panicky about you know, all that all the trauma that you could be causing to your kids.

Dr Don: So I'm working on a third book, like for just talking about that, on how those kinds of things after studying our program, saying, ‘How can we help parents be able to understand the impact those words?’ Because again, with the best of intentions, right, you could be saying a particular phrase or saying or action that is being misinterpreted by somebody who doesn't have any kind of experience.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And it can have far-reaching effects that was way beyond what should have been.

Dr Don: Another great example, I had a lady who again, same thing, uh, no trauma in my life, great childhood, you know, and I said, ‘Can you come up with any kind of an event that you remember that was upsetting or disturbing.’ And so she says, then she had to think about it. And then she says, ‘Yeah, I remember one day she said, I was in church since I was about six years old.’ And she says, and all of a sudden, I see her eyes starting to fill up as she started to talk and she started to choke up, and she says, ‘I was talking and my grandmother took out the brush from her purse and hit me on the head with it and said, ‘Stop talking. You're in church.’ And then the waterworks came. And she says, ‘I just realised I lost my voice that day.’

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr Don: She says, ‘I don't speak up for myself. I don't.’ Yeah. And that had never connected to her. And she realises, ‘I just let people tell me what to do.’ She says, ‘I don't ever speak up for myself.’ And that was a revelation to her that she had never connected.

Lisa: And it was such a minor thing.

Dr Don: Did her grandmother decide to do that? No, it was just like, ‘Stop talking, you're in church,’ right? Yeah, just a little thing.

Lisa: You're like, wow.

Dr Don: Another one, which is really fascinating, just to show you how the subtlety of it. A gentleman telling me that his father who never really was an angry person or whatever. But there was one particular time, he says, ‘My father really hurt me. And it was shocking to me.’ He started to tear up. And as he explained it, what he said is his father hit him on the back, tapped him on the back of the head, he says, but he felt like he just whacked him like full speed. Until he realised, he said, ‘I'm thinking about it now, my father wore this big ring.’ And so when he, his father probably meant to tap. But the ring was like a shock, like a big hit. So the child, ‘You really unloaded on me?’ But he probably didn't mean to, right, and probably couldn't understand why his son was overreacting to this little tap on the head. Right? But then again, that was a situation that affected the way it was a an event that he said, his father overreacted. And he realised he probably didn't mean to do it the way he did it, but had an effect on on him.

Lisa: And then you add to that whole works, your genetic predisposition to either having you know, the warrior gene or the worrier gene, you know, in the, whether you hold on to adrenaline and anxiety and have more anxiousness. And in general, you know, and, like, I remember, as a kid, my mum saying to me, ‘You were just such a sensitive kid. You would cry at the movies if Bambi got,’ you know, she just couldn't take me to any movie, or anything, because I was just very sensitive, always-trying-to-rescue-the-world kid, you know. And trying to atone for everybody else's misdemeanors that they did, and you know, I probably still am. And that, you know, so you have this genetic thing that you come in with, and then you add on some of these things. So while somebody may have had a much more traumatic childhood, you can still react with that, those, you know, if you've got the disposition much more violently, or much more strongly to those as well. So we're very complex, little, little beings. It's a wonder any of us managed to do anything really.

Dr Don: Well, what do I refer to that when I start talking is your atmospheric conditions. Your atmospheric conditions, your Joe Polish, who there’s that saying is he goes, ‘I love the way you say that because your atmospheric conditions are different than my atmospheric conditions.’ So if you grew up in very dark, stormy atmospheric conditions, and I didn't, but then, of course, I'm going to see the world differently, because I'm going to filter through those.

Lisa: And you know, what Joe talks about too, as a mutual friend of ours is an incredible guy. Addiction and taking away the shame and the guilt and all of that that's associated, then the blame for and seeing people for actually what's happening instead of apportioning blame. And that stuck with me what he said about that. I think it was a film that I watched that he made. Like, let's remove some of the judgments that we have on people who are dealing with drug addictions or alcohol addictions. We may not like their behaviour, we may want to help them get out of that situation. But judging people when we never walked in their shoes, when we never had any of those experiences that that person has, how the hell are we, any of us really, able to judge other people?

Dr Don: And that's what I talked about in the program too, because what I get to, as I say, think about it, if our brain is a filter, right, and we take water, which are our thoughts and we pour the water through the filter, and it comes out clear, right? But if we pack mud into that filter, and we pour the water through it and it comes out, muddy, we say, well, what's wrong with that water? There's nothing wrong with the water, it filtered through the mud. How is it not going to be muddy, which is your thoughts? Yeah. And so if you've had a lot of packed mud into your filter, right, and your thoughts come out very dark, right and very muddy. Right? How could you not do it?

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: So when I sit down with somebody who's in addiction, what I say to them is I said, ‘It's impossible for you to not have done what you did, based on the way your mind filters. So that doesn't— there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with your mind. All you've done is you've had a certain set of experiences and your mind filters through those.’ And I said, ‘I've never had a drink of alcohol in my life. I've never had a drug in my life, but I've never experienced your pain. So if I had experienced your pain, and you had experienced my life, you would be sitting where I am. And I'd be sitting where you are.’

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: How could I have done it differently? Yeah, it's not what I say is addiction is not about character, willpower, morals, or ethics. Right. And so you take that that's what Joe and I've talked about, you take away that shame and guilt, because shame and guilt is what got them into it, and probably keeps you there. And so you take away that. So there's a young lady, Michelle, who, when I met her, she's 33, 17 years since she was 16 in active addiction. I mean, everything you can imagine. And the first thing I sit down with her, and as I say, ‘Michelle, there's nothing wrong with you. You don't have a disease. You've built up a series of codes to protect you from the pain.’ And I said, ‘You've had a lot of trauma.’ She goes, ‘Well, how do you know I’ve got a lot of trauma?’ And I said, ‘I can it in hear your voice. Your voice is shaky. And so I can hear the trauma in your voice.’ And I said, ‘What I'm going to do is show you how we're going to update and reset that so that you now can then filter properly. And then that's going to stop the need to feel better, so that's the only reason that you wanted to feel better.’ So she was smoking cigarettes as well, as well as the drugs within four days, she completely stopped smoking. She hasn't smoked, since. It's over two years, has never touched the drug since.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Don: She had zero withdrawal. When I said the withdrawal is coming from the mind saying, ‘You better get it or we're going to die.’ So I believe the mind creates the physical pain, which they call withdrawal. Because it's saying, ‘If you don't get this, we're going to die.’ So it's going to create physical pain to make you— it’s like bending your arm up your back. Because I've talked to drug addicts who will tell me that as soon as your dealer says they're on their way to bring the drug, the withdrawal stops. Because they know they're gonna get it.

Lisa: So the brain just shuts up because you're going, you're getting it.

Dr Don: That's in the mind, because how could the mind crave heroin? I said, if the mind could crave anything, what would it crave? Water. Or if the body could crave anything, what would it crave? Water. But we don't have waterholics, we don't have water rehab centres. That’s what people would be craving. And with you running, right?

Lisa: You’re only craving water.

Dr Don: But you didn't have a problem drinking too much water.

Lisa: No. And when you're, when you're in the sands, like a desert, like across lots of deserts. And there was one day that we only had two liters of water a day, you're not hungry. You're not anything else but thirsty. That's the only thing you can think about, and it's the only thing that you want. And then you know, the addiction to chocolate that I had in my normal life is gone.

Dr Don: Sure. Survival-based, your brain is survival-based, and it wants more. And so if somebody says, ‘I'm going to take away your drug.’ Your mind says, ‘But we'll die.’ It's an error message. And so that's why we'll create the physical pain to get you to go get it. And then as soon as you get it, you feel better. Right? That says nothing about your character, willpower or morals or ethics, that’s just biology and chemistry, right? And the brain is so powerful to survive, it will do amazing things to stay out of pain.

Lisa: Yeah. And this is why the evolution of how we've evolved in, you know, where our DNA has come from. And then you stick us in this artificial environment that we've made for ourselves, you know, like looking at food addictions, for example, you know, you're going to McDonald's on every street corner and fast food everywhere and ultra-processed and with our old DNA, we’re programmed to go and look for fat and salt and sugar. And that's what we’re wanting to get.

Dr Don: It makes us feel good.

Lisa: It makes us feel good. It stops the pain, it stops temporarily, you know, unfortunately, and it's available now everywhere. And this is where, you know, we get into this whole problem with you know, obesity and all sorts of degenerative diseases and the follow on from that. And we're really just fighting against our biology, you know?

Dr Don: And when does it stop the pain? Right now—

Lisa: For five minutes.

Dr Don: When I eat that Big Mac, I feel better right now.

Lisa: And afterwards I feel like—

Dr Don: Logically thinking about, if I continue to do this, I'm going to destroy my gut? No, because all I want to do is stop the pain.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: So I'm working on a smoking cessation program. And this is really, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of it explained this way. But this is how I explained smoking. I'll say to somebody, ‘What do you think you're addicted to?’ Most people will say it's nicotine. And you know, nicotine is harder to get off of than heroin. Right? And I'll say ‘So you think you're addicted to nicotine?’ That's a yes. And so what if I tell you you're not addicted to nicotine? ‘I'm not?’ And I said, ‘No, you're not addicted to nicotine.’ I said, ‘What happens is that when you smoke a cigarette, the nicotine enters your bloodstream and goes to your brain.’ I said, ‘Now nicotine has almost the exact chemical compound of a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine.’

Lisa: Oh.

Dr Don: So when that nicotine hits your brain, your brain thinks it's acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that's the precursor to the release of dopamine.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr Don: So what happens is your brain then starts releasing more acetylcholine to start releasing dopamine. I said what you're addicted to is feeling better.

Lisa: Yep. So God has some eggs instead because that’s a—

Dr Don: But you've trained your brain, to recognise, to associate the associative memory is what's creating the addiction. And it says, ‘When we take that, we feel better.’ It doesn't understand the chemistry that's involved. That's all you're doing. So now, you're, that your best friend that you sit with all by yourself right outside that building because nobody wants to sit with you while you're smoking, right? Now, this cigarette becomes your best friend and somebody says, ‘Well, you can't hang out with your best friend anymore.’ Right? It's like, ‘Oh, no, I'm not giving that up.’ So what you have to do is we have to create a replacement for your best friend. The reason why it's so hard to quit, is because somebody is coming along and saying, ‘Lisa, you just can't hang around with Debbie anymore. Debbie is not good for you.’ And you say, ‘But I don't have any other friends. I feel better when I hang out with Debbie.’ Yep, we've got to find a replacement for Debbie. And another way to do it. And then your brain will then create another way, right, to feel better. Wow. Which is healthier. That's how you break addiction.

Lisa: That is fascinating. So how do you do that with something like heroin though? What do you replace it with? You can't, you know, there isn't, was there—

Dr Don: Here’s the best thing is once we get that unresolved trauma cleared, you automatically start feeling better.

Lisa: because you don't have the pain and therefore you don't need them.

Dr Don: Then we work on the associative memory. So you have to go through our four hour program, we have a series of audio. So if you are an addiction, I have a 30-day addiction audio series that is basically getting your mind to reset the neural pathways of the behaviour. But it's a lot easier to do that when we don't have the pain activated.

Lisa: Wow. Okay, and now you’re establishing new rituals.

Dr Don: Now all we have to do is work on the pathways, new pathways and start questioning, ‘Why did I use to do that? I remember I used to do that, but it didn't make any sense.’ Now your logical part of your brain can get involved and help because there's no pain involved.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And now you can use that intellectual part of your brain to say, this doesn't make any sense, let's come up with a better way of doing it. It couldn't do that before when the pain said, ‘Shut up, get out of the way, we're gonna die.’

Lisa: So you're taking that whole piece of the puzzle layer away and then retraining the brain after the fact, after the four hour program. But so that is an essential part of it as well to reestablish new neural pathways and grooves in the brain to do, have behaviours that change. But without that first piece of the puzzle, all of that—

Dr Don: A variety of very, very difficult system to override.

Lisa: Yeah, we—

Dr Don: And almost sometimes impossible.

Lisa: Yeah, I’d say impossible for him for many, many people in many different situations and people are dying left, right, and centre of addictions and you know, the follow-on effects. And they, yeah, we can't stop them.

Dr Don: And they're told that they're broken.

Lisa: And they're useless.

Dr Don: And they just surrender, and then understand that they will never ever be better. And you're, you know, you're a world-class supreme athlete. Can you imagine, with all the training that you did, if I was your coach, and I said to you, ‘Lisa, you're gonna have to put in this tremendous amount of hard work, but you will never win a race. You'll never accomplish anything. But you've just got to put up the hard work.’ No, I'm looking for the little medal at the end of this. I'm looking for some reward at the end of this. Yeah. And what they're telling you is ‘No, you'll never be able to get it.’

Lisa: You’ll never get it, and they take away all your power. You know, they take away all you’re disempowered, and you're like, ‘Oh, well, you're never gonna, you're never gonna do this.’ See, I mean, I never listened to any of that rubbish.

Dr Don: I don’t believe you’ve trained any human being to accomplish any goal by telling them that they can surrender to it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: That they're going to just have to accept the fact that this has control of them.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: I, no, I'm not going to argue that they haven't helped people because they have. So, but I just say, wouldn't it be better to take the approach of, that you can defeat this?

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Don: And you can overpower it. And you can take back control, because now you understand the science behind it.

Lisa: Exactly.

Dr Don: And why it happened.

Lisa: I love it. That's my approach, you're singing from the same core sheet there. Because I, you know, like, in, whether this is an addiction, or whether this is a diagnosis for something, and you're told, there's no chance, and there's no hope, the amount of people that I get writing to me, because of my story with my mum, telling me I was written off, I was told I'd never do this. Oh, my loved one was, and now look at us go. You know, how many times have people been written off when they didn't need to be written off? Because some expert has told them that there is no hope? No, that means that you don't know. Somebody in the world that doesn't, that knows. And that approach I think, in you know, whether it's addiction, or whether it's dealing with a big health crisis or problems, you know, we've got to take this approach.

Somebody out there, like Dr Don would, might have a solution for my problem. And it's the whole point of the show is to be able to bring those people and the messages to, to people who need it, so they can connect with those people and maybe get help with a problem. And I certainly want to get help with some of the trauma that I've been through recently, and hope to get over it. Because, you know, no matter how many, like I've always, have had a strong mindset. In some ways, I'm incredibly strong when it comes to sport and overcoming obstacles and taking on big challenges. But I am completely weak in other areas, and I know, my own weaknesses, and my own, you know, I'm very self-aware of my limitations and stuff. And we're all working on different areas of our lives. And I might be a black belt at doing this, but I'm very much a white belt at doing that, you know. And finding new information and new things that can help you improve different areas in life, I think it's just, you know, just absolutely gold.

So Dr Don, can you tell us where can people find you? What courses do you have? What books do you have? And you know, how do people reach out to you and work with you?

Dr Don: Well, I know, I think we were gonna do something for the listeners who are listening to your show. So if you go to get G-E-T tipp T-I-P-P, that's the name of our program, T-I-P-P dot com slash Lisa, I think you'll get all the information. So it's www.gettipp.com/lisa, and then all the information on how to get the program, learn more, I think there's some offers, I think that you're doing in there as well for information.

Lisa: So that's absolutely brilliant. So gettipp.com, with two Ps, all the information about Dr Don's work, his courses, books, you know, we'll make sure that people can get access to that. Dr Don, thank you very much for your time today. It's been very, very valuable over the last few weeks of, you know, really been enjoying studying some of your work. And it's given me a little bit of a hope for my horizon after you know, going through some pretty traumatic things in the last five years that I need to sort of work through and you know, realising that on a day-to-day basis are half of my energy now. Like I often look back because I'm no longer doing the ultramarathons, and I don't have the energy to do them anymore. Not because of my age or anything else, I think because a lot of my energy is just going into you know, fighting a lot of demons. Yes, the trauma of losing my dad, going through what I did with my mum, losing the babies. There's a heck of a lot of stuff that's gone on in that time. And all of us are facing these types of situations. Your situation may be different than mine. But at some time in life, life's gonna come along and give you bang over the head.

Dr Don: Your mind is not okay with some of those things and it wants to— And so when people say to me, ‘Oh, I sabotage myself,’ right, or, ‘I'm doing these things and it's, it's interfering.. I say ‘You can't sabotage yourself. The brain is not designed to do anything but survive.’ And so it, some people say, ‘Well, why would I go and do this crazy thing over here that would sabotage my career or sabotage my relationship?’ And it's not trying to sabotage; it’s trying to protect you from pain. So it will go into crazy areas to protect you from the pain that looks like sabotage. And that's how people describe it. I say it's impossible. That, your brain cannot sabotage yourself. Even when people say, ‘Well, how do you explain somebody taking their own life or committing suicide?’ I said, ‘They're not trying to die. They're trying to stop the pain.’ The pain is more powerful than death. That's the way— did I tell you the story about the German sniper?

Lisa: No, do tell me that.

Dr Don: This, I know, we're trying to wrap up here.

Lisa: Oh no.

Dr Don: This was fascinating when I read this story. It was about the German sniper from World War II, that when they fought against the Russians, he said the Russians had almost no weapons, but they had a lot of people. So their plan was to charge at the German stations, right, and try to overwhelm them with people. You know, they were carrying sticks and shovels or whatever they had. And he says, ‘And they would—’ I remember, somebody I knew, told me about that they were a German during the war. And they said the Russians would just overwhelm them, get into the bunkers, and then just, you know, take their weapons and try to kill them. He says, so this sniper, for the Germans, he said his job was to shoot them. And he said, ‘But every time they would shoot them, another wave would come.’ He says, ‘And it was just endless, endless.’ He says, ‘And then I figured out how to stop them.’ He says, ‘I shot them in the stomach.’ He says, ‘Then what happened was, is when the next wave would come, they would see all the comrades lying on the ground screaming in pain.’ And he says, ‘And that was the bigger deterrent than to actually dying.’ And he says, ‘And that’s what slowed it down.’ This shows you the power of the mind not wanting to be in pain, what it will do to go to avoid pain.

Lisa: And this is the desperation that some poor people get into. And that's what they're trying to do when they commit suicide is just stop the pain.

Dr Don: Stop the pain is so overwhelming that they would rather stop the pain. They're not thinking about dying, they're thinking about stopping the pain. Because the brain won't try to die, it will try to stop the pain before that.

Lisa: Wow. And this is where the biology is just too simple in the fact that it doesn't think through the logical stuff. It just works in the here and the now.

Dr Don: None of that stuff is logical.

Lisa: Like you see the future prediction. Yeah, there's no, the consequences of me doing this are X, Y, Z is they don't think that far.

Dr Don: They can't, because the reason logic are overwritten every time by survival. Yeah, by the survival in this exact millisecond.

Lisa: This knowledge is just powerful on so many levels. And it's just given me a new dimension of how powerful this is. And again, it's about taking the blame off people, and let's find ways to fix this. And to work through that and to help people so that we don't, so just apportion blame and you’re a person lacking willpower, you’re a person with addictions, and you are lesser than me. We all have biology, and we are all struggling on some level. You know, most of us are just better at, you know, doing the day-to-day stuff. But, yeah, I think you're a humanitarian, and the work that you're doing is really, really helping people, Dr Don. So thank you very much for the work you do.

Dr Don: Thank you. When I first met you and Joe introduced us, I saw the work you're doing, you're doing phenomenal stuff. So I was so excited to meet you and get an opportunity to share with you, you know, and work together because we’re better, have our message out there.

Lisa: Absolutely. We're both going to get messages out there. We're both got to help spread this to a few more people around the world. And this is what this episode’s done. So thank you very much for your time today. Dr Don Wood.

Dr Don: Thank you. I enjoyed it.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn about the Breakthrough Experience and how it has changed thousands of lives. 2. Discover how to prioritise and determine your top priorities. 3. John shares his secret to retaining Information in the quickest way possible.

Episode Highlights [05:00] About John * Dr John is an educator, researcher and writer. He has spent over 48 years helping people maximise their potential. * John wanted to know what allows people to do extraordinary things. That's why he distilled information from great minds throughout history. He made them into practical things that people today can use. * John had speech and learning challenges as a kid. At a doctor’s recommendation, his parents took him out of school and put him into sports. * After having a near-death experience at 17, Paul Bragg inspired John to overcome his learning problems. With the help of his mom, he eventually learned how to read. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about John's inspiring story!

[15:42] How Surfing Changed John’s Mindset * Surfing has taught John that people are not going to excel without perseverance and commitment. * John converted his determination for surfing into persistence in reading.

[17:57] The Breakthrough Experience * The Breakthrough Experience is a philosophy and program changing lives globally. * This system teaches you how to prioritise and structures life by priority. It breaks through limitations and helps achieve life goals. * John teaches people to use any experience, even challenges. These are catalysts for transformation and progress. * John has helped people learn how to prioritise to get their breakthrough experience in different areas of life. These include businesses, careers, health, relationships, among others. * Lisa relates the Breakthrough Experience philosophy to when her mom had a severe aneurysm.

[24:14] John Shares a Miraculous Experience * At 27 years old, John handled a family with a son in a three-year coma. * The family went to different hospitals in Mexico and the United States. However, they found none to help their son. * They then went to John, and he thought of a maneuver to help the child. However, the treatment also came with significant risk. * Listen to the full episode to find out how John helped a child get out of a three-year coma.

[33:34] Jesse Billauer’s Breakthrough Experience * Jesse Billauer, a surfer, decided to go to the Breakthrough Experience after a surfing accident. * At the time, he was depressed because he was physically unable to surf. * After the Breakthrough Experience, he learned how to prioritise and what his top priority was. Jesse became determined not to let anything stop him from surfing. * Jesse developed a way to surf as a quadriplegic person. He taught others how to do the same.

[38:58] Herd Mentality in the Sciences * New ideas are violently opposed and ridiculed. That's why people fear going against the norm. * People who aim to survive follow the multitude. People who want to thrive create a new paradigm. * Each person can excel at anything if they focus on that, not on others' opinions.

[41:37] How to Prioritise * John made a list of every single thing he does in a day over three months. * He then placed multiple columns next to that list. The first column contains how much money each task produces per hour. The second column contains how much a job inspires him on a scale of 1-10. He also considered the cost and the time spent on each activity. * After doing that, he prioritised the activities that made thousands of dollars. He also focused on ones that scored ten on the inspiration scale. * John hired people for the low-priority tasks. This choice allowed him to be more productive in his top priorities. Within 18 months, his business increased tenfold. * Listen to the full episode to learn how to prioritise and about investing in your top priority.

[56:19] How John Stays Looking Young * John is almost 67 years old. However, Lisa describes him as someone who looks like a teenager. * John doesn't eat junk. He drinks a lot of water, has never had coffee in his life and hasn't had alcohol in over 48 years. * Doing what you love every day also slows down the aging process.

[58:03] Some Lessons from the Breakthrough Experience * Nothing is missing in you. When you compare yourself to others, you'll try to live by their values or get them to live by yours. Both of these are futile. * Sticking to your values and priorities is key to resilience and success. * People are different from each other, but no one is better than the other. * If you don't empower your own life, others will overpower you. * Your mission is something that you're willing to get through any means necessary.

[1:06:38] How to Get Your Amygdala Under Control * The amygdala is associated with emotions and the "fight-or-flight" response. * Because we have neuroplasticity, we can remodel our internal system. * Perceiving challenges and feeling shame and guilt trigger an autoimmune reaction that attacks your body. * Every time we choose to live by the highest priority, the amygdala calms down. The prefrontal cortex is reinforced.

[1:12:03] The Mind-Body Connection * Our psychological processes also affect our physiological processes. * People are used to blaming external factors. They don't take accountability for the things they experience. * John uses the example of when people get symptoms after eating unhealthy food. They don't face the fact that they brought it upon themselves. * Our bodies do an excellent job of guiding us. That's why we should learn how to listen to them.

[1:18:13] The Journey to Financial Independence * There is nothing evil about having money. * John believes that you can be a slave to money, or you can be a master of it. * Nothing is stopping you from doing what you love to do.

[1:21:28] How to Retain Information * Teaching what you've learned is the key to retention. * Teaching compels your mind to organise ideas and reinforce them. * Teach the concepts as soon as you've discovered them. Don't wait until you're an expert on the subject.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for $7 and $15 NZD per month, respectively. * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * Related Pushing the Limits Episodes * + 135: How To Make Better Decisions Consistently + 183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Elena Seranova + 189: Increasing Your Longevity with Elena Seranova * Connect with John: Website | Facebook | Linkedin | YouTube | Instagram * ‎The Demartini Show * Demartini Value Determination Process * The Breakthrough Experience program * Join John's The Mind-Body Connection course * Learn more about Jesse Billauer and his story. * High Surf: The World's Most Inspiring Surfers by Tim Baker * The Time Trap: The Classic Book on Time Management by Alec Mackenzie and Pat Nickerson * Brain Wash: Detox Your Mind for Clearer Thinking, Deeper Relationships, and Lasting Happiness by David and Austin Perlmutter * The Top Five Regrets of the Dying: A Life Transformed by the Dearly Departing by Bronnie Ware

7 Powerful Quotes ‘I'm an educator, a researcher, a writer. I do a lot of interviews and filming for documentaries. I've been spending 48 years now on doing anything I can to help human beings maximise their potential.’

‘I love studying and learning anything I can from those people that have done extraordinary things and then passing that on.”

“I love anybody who's done something extraordinary on the planet in any field. I love devouring their journey.’

‘No matter what the teacher was trying to do, I just couldn't read. And my teacher and my parents come to the school and said, ‘You know, your son's not able to read. He's not going to be able to write effectively’ because I wrote kind of backwards.’

‘Well, I'm surfing the cosmic waves now. And in surfing big cosmic waves, radio waves that are big waves. Yes, that's the move from water waves into electromagnetic waves.’

‘And so the Breakthrough Experience is about accessing that state. And breaking through the limitations that we make up in our mind and transforming whatever experiences you have into “on the way” not “in the way”.’

‘She said that there was something that took over me, I can't describe it. It was like a very powerful feeling — like I had a power of a Mack truck. And me? I don't know how to describe it.’

About Dr John Dr John Demartini is an author, researcher, global educator and world-renowned human behaviour specialist. Making self-development programs and relationship solutions is part of his job. Among his most popular programs is the Breakthrough Experience. It is a personal development course that aims to help individuals achieve whatever goal they have.

As a child, Dr John had learning challenges and could not read and write well until 18 years old. He has now distilled information from over 30,000 books across all academic disciplines and shares them online and on stage in over 100 countries.

Interested in knowing more about Dr John and his work? You may visit his website or follow him on Facebook, Linkedin, YouTube and Instagram.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can achieve their life goals by learning how to prioritise.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week, I have Dr John Demartini. He is a world renowned speaker, teacher, educator, researcher, medical doctor. He's written I don't know how many books, countless, countless books. He's an incredible, incredible man who teaches literally thousands and thousands of people every year in his breakthrough experience. The information that you're going to get in this podcast could change your life. So I've given you a fair warning. He's an amazing, incredible man that, and I've talked to a lot of incredible people but this one is really next level, he started out as a big wave surfer in Hawaii, way back in the day. Even knew Laird Hamilton and people like that. Had learning disabilities and could hardly read or write, and yet managed to overcome all these things to become one of the greatest scholars that there is. He's read over 30,000 books. He has distilled the knowledge from people right through the ages, through leaders and philosophers and stoics and scientists. He's an expert in so many different areas. He teaches people in business, he teaches people how to overcome massive challenges in their life. So I really hope that you enjoy this episode. It is going to get uncomfortable in places because we’ll talk about really being accountable, really understanding our own physiology, and just so much more. An absolutely amazing interview. So I hope you enjoy it.

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Now over to the show with Dr John Demartini. Well, Hi everyone and welcome to Pushing The Limits. Today, I am super excited for my guest. My guest is an absolute superstar. Welcome to the show. Firstly and foremostly, thank you very much for taking the time out today. Dr John, I'm just really excited to have you. Whereabouts are you sitting in the world?

Dr John: I am in Houston, Texas. I'm in a hotel room in Houston, Texas, even though it shows that I've got a library.

Lisa: Yeah,I love that background. That is a fantastic background. Really great. Well, greetings to Texas and I hope that everything is going well over there for you. Today, I wanted to talk about you, your work, the breakthrough experience. Some of the learnings and the exciting mission that you've been on for now. For 47 years, I believe. Something crazy like that. So Dr John, can you just give us a little bit of a background on you and your life and what you do on a day to day basis? Big question.

Dr John: I'm an educator, a researcher, a writer. I do a lot of interviews and filming for documentaries. I've been spending 48 years now, over 48 years, on doing anything I can to help human beings maximise their potential, their awareness potential, and achieve whatever it is that they're inspired to achieve. So that could be raising a beautiful family to building a massive business to becoming fortunate or celebrity, doesn't matter. It's whatever it is that inspires them. I've been studying human behaviour and anything and everything I can get my hands on for the last 48 years to assist people in mastering a lot. That's what I love doing. I do it every day. I can't think of any else I'd rather be doing. So I just do it.

Lisa: It's a bit of a role model for me, Dr John, because I think what you have achieved in this time, the way you've distilled information, I mean, you've studied, last time I looked on one of your podcasts, that was over 30,000 books, probably more now. And you've distilled the information from great masters throughout history into practical things that humans today can actually benefit from. Is that a good assessment of what you basically have done?

Dr John: I'm writing right now a 1200 page textbook on philosophers and great minds through the ages. I summarise it. I love studying and learning anything I can from those people that have done extraordinary things, and then passing that on. So yes. Right now, I'm actually, I just finished, I’m just finishing up Albert Einstein, which is one of my heroes. I had a dream when I was young. When I saw that E = mc² drawn on that board, I wanted to find out where that board was. I went to Princeton, and met with Freeman Dyson, who took over his position at Princeton in 1955. Spent part of the day with him and we're talking on cosmology. I wrote my formula on that same board, exactly the same place, because that was a dream that I had since I was probably 18, 19.

Lisa: Wow, and you got to fulfill it and actually love it.

Dr John: Yeah. Took me a bit of time. So what? But yeah, I love anybody who's done something extraordinary on the planet in any field. I love devouring their journey and their thinking. That's every Nobel Prize winner I've gone through and every great philosopher and thinker and business leader and financially or spiritually, to try to find out and distill out what is the very essence that drives human beings? And what is it that allows them to do extraordinary things? So I wanted to do that with my life. Most of the people I get in front of want to feel like they want to make a massive difference. They want to make a difference in the world. They want to do something that’s deeply meaningful, inspiring. And so yeah, we're not 'put your head in the product glue and let the glue stick' and then pass it on.

Lisa: Instead of having to reinvent the world, why not? So Dr John, can you give us a little bit of history though, because you're obviously an incredible scholar,have an incredible mind. But as a child, you struggled with learning and with reading and writing.Can you give us a little, how the heck did you go from being this kid that struggled with all of that to where you are today? One of the greatest minds out there.

Dr John: Yeah, I definitely had some learning challenges. I had a speech challenge when I was a year and a half old to four, I had to wear buttons in my mouth and put strings in my mouth and practice using all kinds of muscles. Went to a speech pathologist. When I was in first grade. No matter what the teacher was trying to do, I just couldn't read. My teacher, and my parents would come to the school and said, 'You know, your son's not able to read. He's not going to be able to write effectively,' because I wrote kind of backwards. 'I don't think he's going to mountain and go very far in life, put him into sport.' Because I like to run. And I did sports there for a while. But then I went from baseball to surfing. I hitchhiked out to California and down Mexico and then made it over to Hawaii so I could ride big waves and I was doing big wave and stuff when I was a teenager. So I didn't have academics. I dropped out of school. I was a street kid from 13 to 18. But then right before 18 I nearly died. That's when I met Paul Bragg, who inspired me one night in a presentation. That night I got so inspired that I thought, 'Maybe I could overcome my learning problems by applying what this man just taught me. And maybe someday I could learn to read and write and speak properly.' That was such an inspiration, such a moment of inspiration that it changed the course of my life. I had to go back. And with the help of my mum, I went and got a dictionary out, started to read a dictionary and memorise 30 words a day until my vocabulary. I had to spell the word, pronounce the word, use it with a meaningful sentence, and develop a vocabulary. Eventually doing that 30 we would, we wouldn't go to bed. I didn't go to bed until I had 30 new words, really inculcated. My vocabulary grew. And I started to learn how to do the reading. It was not an easy project. But, man, once I got a hold of it, I never stopped.

Lisa: And once you started to read, you didn’t stop.

Dr John: I've never stopped. I've been a voluminous reader now. You know, 48 years.

Lisa: That’s just incredible.

Dr John: I can’t complain.

Lisa: So was it a dyslexia or learning disability? I just asked because my mum was a teacher of children with dyslexia and things like that. Was there specific ways that you were able to overcome the disability so to speak?

Dr John: Yeah, I just, sheer persistence and determination to want to read and learn. I remember, I took my first, I took a GED test, a general education high school equivalency test. And I guessed, literally guessed, I close my eyes. I said this little affirmation that Paul Bragg gave me that, 'I'm a genius, and I apply my wisdom.' And some miraculous thing made me pass that test. I didn't know how to read half the stuff that was on it. I just went with my intuition and guessed. And I tried to go to college, after taking that test and had the test. I failed. And I remember driving home crying because I had this idea that I was going to learn how to teach and become intelligent. Then when I got a 27, everybody else got 75 and above. I got a 27 and I thought, 'Well, there's no way it's going to work.' But then I sat there and I cried and my mum came home from shopping, and she saw me crying on the living room floor. She said, ‘Son, what happened? What's wrong?’ I said, ‘Mum, I failed the test. I guess I don't have what it takes.’ And I repeated what the first grade teacher said, 'I guess I'll never read or write or communicate effectively, or amount too much. I guess I'll go back to Hawaii and make surfboards and surf. Because I was pretty good at that.' And she said to me something that was a real mind bender. She put her hand on me and she said, ‘Son, whether you become a great teacher, philosopher and travel the world like your dream, whether return to Hawaii and ride giant waves like you've done, return to the streets and panhandle like you've done. I just want to let you know that your father and I are going to love you no matter what you do.’

Lisa: Wow, what a mum.

Dr John: That was an amazing moment. When she said that, my hand went into a fist of determination. And I said to myself, ‘I'm gonna match this thing called reading and studying and learning. I'm gonna match this thing called teaching and philosophy. And I'm going to do whatever it takes, I'm going to travel whatever distance, I'm gonna pay whatever price, to give my source of love across this planet.’ I got up and I hugged her. And I said to myself, ‘I'm not gonna let any human being on the face of the earth stop me, not even myself.’ I got out of my room. And that's when I decided with her help to do the dictionary. That was an amazing turning point.

Lisa: And I can feel it, the emotion and what a wonderful mum you had. I mean, what a perfect thing to say when someone's down.

Dr John: It was the most. If she hadn't said that, I might’ve come back to surfing. I might be a surfer today.

Lisa: Which would have been a good thing as well, probably because surfing is great.

Dr John: It didn’t make money in those days. I'm in the mid 60s and 70s, early 70s. But,, now, the guys I served with, Laird Hamilton and-

Lisa: Wow. He's a hero is amazing.

Dr John: Both Ben Aipa, Gerry Lopez, and these guys, those are the guys I served with. And so those guys went on to be incredible.

Lisa: I wasn't aware of that.

Dr John: I lived at the same beach park in Haleiwa, where Ehukai Beach Park is, near Pipeline, between Rocky Point and Pipeline. Laird Hamilton was dropped off by his mother there and lived there on the beach. I lived up on where the park bench was. We lived right there and I saw him on the beach each morning. He was seven, I was 16. He was going on seven, I was almost 17. We live there at the same place and Bill Hamilton saw him out there and grabbed him and took him in and trained them on surfing and found his mum and then married the mum. That's how I became. I hung out with those characters.

Lisa: Legends. You became a legend in this direction and they have become a legend in a different direction.

Dr John: Well, there's a book out called The High Surf by Tim Baker. That’s from Australia. He wrote a book on people that rode big waves. And he said, 'I'd like to put you in there.' I said, 'Well, I didn't go on to be the superstar in that area like these other guys.' He said, 'But I want you in there because you became a legend.

Lisa: Became a superstar.

Dr John: Yeah

Lisa: Do you think that there's, you know, I come from a surfing family. My brother's a big wave surfer in New Zealand. I've tried and failed miserably, stuck to running. I was better at it. But do you think there's a correlation between the mindset that you developed as a surfer? Because going in those big waves is scary. It's daunting. It's frightening. It's challenging. It's teaching you a lot. Is there a lot that you took from that for this journey that you've been on?

Dr John: Yeah, I didn't surf anything more than 40-foot waves. So I think that was about as good as about as big as you get back in the 70s. At 70s is when I was-

Lisa: Oh, just a mere 40, it’s okay.

Dr John: Well, 40-foot waves was the biggest thing out in outer reef pipeline was the big thing. They hadn't had tow-in surfing yet. That was just, that wasn't begun yet. So there was that idea, we had to catch those waves. That was not easy because they're too big to catch. you got to have big long boards, and you got to really paddle to get into those waves, and it's usually too late. But I think some of those, I used to surf 11 hours a day sometimes. When you're really, really committed to doing something, that's... Einstein said perseverance is the key to making things happen and if you just stay with something. So, if you're not inspired to do something, enough to put in the hours and put in the effort, and you don't have somebody that you can bounce ideas off of, kind of mentoring you, you probably are not going to excel as much. But I did that. And then I just converted that over into breeding 18 to 20 hours a day, feeding once I learned to read, so I just and I still voluminously read I mean, I read every single day.

Lisa: That is incredible. And so you've taken that big wave mindset a little bit over into something else. So obviously, everything you, do you do to the nth degree, we can probably agree on that one.

Dr John: I'm surfing the cosmic waves now. And in surfing big cosmic waves, radio waves that are big waves. I move from water waves into electromagnetic waves.

Lisa: Wow. Now, you run something called The Breakthrough Experience, which you've been doing now for 40 something years. This is a philosophy and a system and a program that really changes lives and has changed lives all over the planet. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've distilled from all this information that you have in your incredible mind? And what you teach in this course, and how this can actually help people? Today, right now listening to this?

Dr John: Well, the breakthrough experiences, sort of my attempt to do with what that gentleman did to me when I was 17. I've done it 1121 times into that course. I keep records, and I'm a metric freak. Every human being lives by a set of priorities, a set of values, things that are most important.

Lisa: Podcast life.

Dr John: Welcome to it. I thought that was off, but I didn't quite get it off. But whatever is highest on the person's values, priorities, whatever is truly deeply meaningful to them, the thing that is spontaneously inspiring for them to that they can't wait to get up the morning and do.If they identify that and structure their life by priority, delegating the lower priority things and getting on with doing that, they will build momentum, incremental momentum and start to excel and build what we could say is a legacy in the world. And so, the breakthrough experience is about accessing that state, and breaking through the limitations that we make up in our mind, transforming whatever experiences you have into 'on the way' not 'in the way.' So no matter what goes on in your life, you can use it to catalyse a transformation and movement towards what it is that you're committed to. And if you're not clear about it, we'll show you how to do it because many people subordinate to people around them. Cloud the clarity of what's really really inspiring from within them, and they let the herd instinct stop them from being heard.

I think that The Breakthrough Experiences is my attempt to do whatever I can, with all the tools that I've been blessed to gather to assist people in creating a life that is extraordinary, inspiring and amazing for them. And if I don't do whatever it takes in the program, I don't know when it's going to be. I've seen six year olds in there write books afterwards. I've seen nine year olds go on to get a deal with Disney for $2.2 million dollars. I've seen people in business break through plateaus. I’ve people have major issues with relationships break, too. I don't know what's gonna be. I've seen celebrities go to new levels. I've seen people that have health issues that heal. I mean, every imaginable thing, I’ve breaking through. I've seen it in that course. And it's the same principles applied now into different areas of life. In any other area of our life, if we don't empower, the world's going to overpower something. And I'm showing I want to show people how to not let anything on the outside world interfere with what's inside.

Lisa: And you talk about, it's on the way, the challenges that we have to look at the challenges that we have and ask how is this going to actually help me get wherever I am. And this is something that I've managed to do a couple of times in my life really well, other times not so good. But where I've taken a really massive challenge, I had my own listeners, I had a mum who had a massive aneurysm five years ago, and we were told she would never have any quality of life again, massive brain damage. We know that's not happening on my watch. I'm going to, there is somebody in something in the world that can help with her. And this became my mantra that I was going to get back or die trying. That was that total dedication that I brought to her because of love. When you love someone, you're able to mobilise for the last resources that you have. And that nearly bloody killed me as far as the whole effort that went on to it, and the cost and the emotional costs, and the physical and the health and all the rest of it. It took me three years to get it back to health, full health. She's now got a full driver's license back and a full independent life back and as my wonderful mum again. And that was coming from a state of being in a vegetative state, not much over a vegetative state at least. Hardly any higher function, no speech, no move, be able to move anything.

Dr John: That’s a book there. That's a book or a movie.

Lisa: It's the book.

Dr John: That's a book and a movie for sure.

Lisa: Exactly. And this is very powerful. Because I saw this and when you're in the darkness, everybody is telling you there is no hope, there is no chance. And these are medical professionals who have been to medical school, who have a hell of a lot more authority than you. You just go, ‘No, I am not accepting it because that alternative means death, basically, decline and death in being in an institution. And that is not what I'm going to answer. I'm going to find somebody who can help me’ and I did. I found hundreds of people, actually, and this is what tipped me into doing what I'm doing now, is finding world leading experts to give me the next piece of the puzzle for her and for the people now that are following me so that I can help empower people, not to be limited by the people who tell us we can't do something. It's because that means basically they don't have the answer. Not that there is no answer, is my understanding. And they were right. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. But I did it and my mum is alive and she's well, and that book. I really want to empower people with a story. I see that same like they're obviously your passion. What you went through with your learning problems when you were young and your mum standing beside you has actually propelled you into this lifelong journey that I find absolutely fascinating because that passion, and I can see that passion in you, is still very much alive 48 years later because you're doing what your priority is.

Dr John: I'm definitely doing what I love doing. It's interesting that your story reminded me of something that happened to me when I was 27. If you don't mind, I'd like to share this. So I graduated from my professional school. I had a bit of a reputation there of being kind of the taking the cream of the crop clients, patients that were turned down everywhere else. I just tackled it, see what we can do with it. And I got a family from Mexico, with a son that fell three stories off an apartment complex onto the ground on his head. He went into a coma, been in a coma for three and a half years. And the mother, they assumed he was dead a few times, but there was still a breath. There were still something. It wasn't a strong breath. You couldn't see it but you could put a mirror in front of you and get a little bit of breath out there. So he wasn't dead. And he had decerebrate rigidity. So his whole body was so rigid that when I saw him, you could lift up his feet and his whole body would rock. It was so stiff. His hands are like this. A classical decerebrate rigidity. And he had gone to, throughout different hospitals in Mexico, where he was from, and nobody checked them. They came to America, they went to the Medical Center in Houston, which is the largest Medical Center America. And they got rejected. No one would accept it. There's nothing we can do. They went out to the professional school that I'd gone to. And they said, ‘We can't do anything.’ But we know this interesting character. West Houston, if there's anybody that would try something this guy might try, who knows? And they sent him to my office. I remember when they came in, they carried him wrapped up in a white sheet, and laid him on the armrest of the chairs on my office. I looked out there and I saw this Mexican man and woman and seven or eight other kids in a family. I'm in this. At first, I didn't know what this was, this thing wrapped up in this sheet. They came down my hallway and I saw him going down the hallway. And like, ‘What on earth is this?’ Then they unveiled him in my exam room. And there was this 58 pound tube in his nose, coma case that was so stiff. It was ridiculous. I mean, he had gauze on his chin and his hand was rubbing on it and to protect the chin from having an ulcer. It had an odor to him in the head. It was just nothing. Just stare. He just sat there. But the mother and father said, ‘No, he's still alive. Please help.’ So I didn't really have much to do an exam with. So I got him, we took him in and did a film of his spine and his skull from the history. We found his foramen magnum, his skull was jammed down on a spinal cord and his spinal cord is up in his foramen magnum. This opening in the bottom of the skull. And I thought that night, when I was developing those films, and I looked at that I thought, 'I wonder what happened if I lifted that skull? If I've got that off? It could? Could something happen?' And I was scared because you just don't do that. He could die just instantly. I sent them over to this health food store to get him some liquid vitamins and minerals and amino acids to try to get nutrients in him because they're feeding him beans and rice with liquid. It was just crazy. So the next day came in. We had four doctors on a preceptorship visiting my office, one doctor that was working for me, one assistant, the seven or eight kids plus him and the mother and father in this little room. It was packed. And I said to him that I saw that on the film something that might have make him, help. I don't know, I can't guarantee it. But if we, if I did a particular manoeuvre, it might open up the brain function. And the little woman held on to her husband and she said, 'If he dies, he dies. If he lives, we rejoice. But please help us. We have nowhere else to go.'

Lisa: Yeah. Wow.

Dr John: She said that there was something that took over me, I can't describe it. It was like a very powerful feeling, like I had a power of a Mack truck in me. I don't know how to describe it. And I had this manoeuvre that we could do this, what they call the Chrane Condyle Lift, that can actually lift the skull up the spine. And I said to myself, if I'm not willing to have him die in my hands, I can't raise the dead with my hands as a little quote that I learned from an ancient healing philosopher. And I thought, 'Okay, we're, I'm going to take the risk, and just see what happens.' Because, I mean, I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna do it. Because I mean, they've got no place to go and I only took a rip. As I lifted that skull with this powerful movement. He came out of his coma. He came right out of the coma. He screamed, and this whining noise you couldn't. It was not coherent. It was just this whining sound.

The whole family went on their knees, they were Catholic. They just went to their knees and prayed. I was blown away. I saw the four doctors one of them ran down the hallway and vomited, couldn't handle it. The other just stared. And here's this boy squirming on the table. I walked out to let the family be with the child for a minute and just sat with one of my doctors. We sat there and just cried. Because we knew that the spinal cord expressed life in the body. But we didn't know what would happen if we took the spinal cord, it just scanned off. Theoretically, it could kill you. But there was some still life in the spinal cord. Anyway, this boy went on to gain 20 pounds up to 78 pounds. We took him off the tube, we got him to move, we had everybody in the family take a joint in his body and move his joints to remobilise him. Sometimes I think we probably tore some ligaments doing it. But we got mobility. And this boy came out of it. And I have a picture here with me of the boy actually graduating from high school.

Lisa: You’re kidding me? Why is this not an? What is not? Why have I never heard the story?

Dr John: I don’t get to share it too often. I didn't many years ago. I haven't practised in a long time. But all I know is that that was a moment that you just, it's probably like you had with your mum when you saw incremental progress.

Lisa: Yeah. Just grind.

Dr John: And I think that that's a metaphor. That's a metaphor. It doesn't matter where you've come from, doesn't matter what you're going through, doesn't matter what you've been through. What matters is you have something that you're striving for. And are you willing to do some incremental movement towards that? What else just said is, he's got a diagnosis. Diagnosis means through knowledge, supposedly, but it could also mean die to an agnosis. You don't know. Even the doctors don't know. But the reality is, he came out of the coma. And I had over the next few months, I had some amazing cases of a boy that was blind and couldn't walk, and all of a sudden see and walked again. I had a boy that was paralysed quadriplegic, was able to walk. I mean, I had some amazing stuff happen. When you're willing to do what other people aren't willing to do, you're willing to experience when other people don't get to experience.

Lisa: Yep, it is just so powerful. And I'm just absolutely blown away from that story. Because, I mean, I know with my mum who was only in a coma for three weeks, and had stroke and so on, and in the specificity and the things that I've had to deal with. The whole vestibular system being completely offline, she has like a rag doll, having to read, programming her from being a baby, basically, to being an adult, within that three year period with a body that is now like 79 years old. And the doctors going like, your brain can't change that much. And in just going, I'm going to keep going. I'm only listening to people who tell me I can do something, I'm not listening to anybody who tells me I can't do something. And this is something that I've really integrated into my entire life like as an athlete, doing stupidly long ultramarathon distances. I was always told you can't do this, and you can't do that. It's impossible. And I was like, 'We'll see.' I'm going to throw everything in it. And that was my passion at the time have now retired from doing the stupid distances because I've got other missions on in life. But whatever it is, is always the big mission. And then everybody comes up against people who tell you, you can't do it. This is one of the biggest limiting things that I see.

Dr John: That's what Einstein said, greatness is automatically pounded by mediocre minds.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr John: I had a boy, a boy attend my breakthrough experience, who had a surfing accident and became arms and legs not working, He could move his neck. He got a little bit of function slowly into the hand that was about it, just a tiny bit. And I remember a man wheeling him in and having them kind of strapped to a wheelchair. I knew the father and I knew his brother. There were doctors who were colleagues of mine. And they brought him, they flew him literally from Los Angeles over to Texas to come to the breakthrough experience. I remember him looking straight down really depressed, suicidal, because he was a surfer and he was on his way to being a great surfer. If he couldn't surf, he didn't want to live kind of. I remember getting on my knees and looking up at him at this chair, and I said, 'It all determines inside you what you decide. I don't know what the limit you have in your body. I don't know what you can repair. I don't know what you can do. I don't want to say you can't. But all I know is that if you're going to, you're going to have to put everything into it. You're gonna have to have no turning back kind of attitude. There's got to be a relentless pursuit of your master plan to serve.'

His name is Jesse Billauer. He made a decision at the Breakthrough Experience that nothing was going to stop him from surfing again, nothing. He is really, in the room was absolutely applauding him. The before and after in that weekend was so astonishing that it was tear jerking. Well, about 17 years ago, 16 half years ago, I had the opportunity to get, I was living on the Gold Coast of Australia. I had many homes in New York and different places. But I had one in the Gold Coast of Australia in Aria, lived in the penthouse of Aria. And all of a sudden, I found in my entrance of my penthouse, which you only can get into with my key somebody from downstairs, put it in there like mail, a DVD video of a surfing movie, called Stepping Into Liquid. And when I pulled that up and put that in there, there was Jesse Billauer, surfing.

He found a way of using his head muscles, and designing a special vehicle, a transport system, a surfboard. He had to have somebody take them out into the water and push him. But once he got on a wave his head movements were able to ride and he was riding like 12 foot waves, which is 20 foot face waves. He was doing that. And he was an inspiration. He became friends with Superman who had quadriplegia and they became friends and he created a foundation to do something but he taught people how to go surfing as a quadriplegic. So when the wise big enough to house take care of themselves, you've proven that in your book. What little I've done in my life compared to some of these kind of stories is just astonishing what I see sometimes people do. I mean, mind blowing stuff that people, that determination to overcome that are absolute inspirations. Inspiration is a byproduct of pursuing something that's deeply inspiring and deeply meaningful, through a challenge that people believe is not possible. That's inspiration.

Lisa: That's how we grow as a human race. We have these amazing people that do incredible things. And these stories, I mean, these are stories that aren't even out there in the world, in a huge way. There are hundreds of these stories and thousands of these stories and miraculous stories. These are the things that we should be talking about. Because why are we not studying the outliers? Why are we not? When I look at my book, or my story, which I share publicly and not a single doctor that had anything to do with my mum ever asked me, 'Well, how did you do it?' Nobody is interested in why she has not taken the normal path as long gone. Nobody has asked me what did you do? People do. My audience want to know why. The people that follow me, etc. But nobody that was involved in that case. And I see that over and over again.

Dr John: It's forcing him to face their own, you might say, belief systems about what they've been taught. There's an educated awareness by the herd and then there's an innate yearning by the master. The master transcends the herd, if you will. You can be a sheep or a shepherd. The shepherd is the one that goes out and does things that the sheep are not willing to do. But then once they do it, they'll rally around it. They are there watching you to be the hero instead of becoming the hero.

Lisa: Wow. And why is it in the medical fraternity that there seems to be a very big herd mentality, like no one is scared to step outside of their norms, and they get slammed. I see this in academia and in science as well, where people who have brilliant ideas and hypotheses and studies and so on, they just get slammed because it's outside of the current paradigm.

Dr John: William James, one of the founders of modern psychology, said 'To be great…' And Emerson followed in suit, 'To be greatest, to be misunderstood.’ William James basically said that the majority of people fear rejection from the multitudes because that was survival. People that are into survival follow the multitude. People that are in thrival create a new paradigm. At first they're going to be ridiculed. They're going to be violently opposed to Schopenhauer and Gandhi said, but eventually becomes self-evident. And you're either following a culture or building one. The people that do that build a new culture. They build a new culture of idea. Emerson said in his essays on circles, 'We rise up and we create a new circle of possibility. And then that becomes the new norm until somebody comes up and breaks through that concentric sphere with another circle.' It's like the four minute mile. I had a gentleman on my program the other day who is striving to be the fastest runner in the world. He's got bronze and silver medals, but he hadn't got the fastest running. And he's not stopping. He's working sometimes eight to 13 hours a day on this project. I believe that the way he's so determined to do it, and how he works on it, and he doesn't need a coach telling him what to do. He just does it. He's inspired to do it. He'll be the fastest runner, he won't stop till he's the fastest runner in the world. And that’s determination, that to be great at that one thing, find that one thing that you really target like a magnifying glass, on that you become the greatest at that thing.

Mine was human development, human behaviour. I want to have the broadest and greatest width of information about that. That's my one thing. But each individual has something that they can excel in, if they just define it, and give themselves permission at it, and say, thank you but no thank you to the opinions. The opinions are the cheapest commodities on Earth that would circulate the most as a use value. There’s ton of those. But those opinions aren’t what matter. It's not you comparing yourself to other people, it's you comparing your daily actions to what's deeply meaningful to you, and the highest priority actions daily, that’s what it is.

Lisa: How do you, this is a problem that I face, get to a certain level of success and achievement, and then you start getting lots of offers and opportunities and so on, and you start to lose the focus. You get distracted from the things that are happening in this day and age where the internet and everything that ends up like I get the shiny object syndrome. And say, 'Oh, this is an extremely interesting area of study, and I should go down that path. And then I go down that path, and then I go down that path.' It is adding to the whole picture of a general education. as someone who studied as much as you have, you've obviously encompassed all of these areas. But I think what I'm asking is, how do you find out what your highest priority is? And how do you get a team around you, so that you're not limited? I think there's a lot of business people that are listening to this, me included in this, who has struggling to get past a certain ceiling because the area of genius is one thing that they love and excelling at, and you'd like to spend all of your time doing that. But you're stuck in the groundhog day of admin and technology in the stuff that you hate. And not busting through because financially, you can't delegate to people. You also got to find people that are a good fit for you who can do the jobs, and then also have the finances to be able to break through to that near next level. Can you talk to that about?

Dr John: Yes, absolutely. When I was 27 years old, I was just starting my practice. I was doing a little of everything, anything and everything, just to get the thing cranking. I had one assistant that I hired. But I realised I was doing way too many trivial things. And that'll burn you out after a while if you're doing stuff that's not really what your specialty is. I went to the bookstore and I got a book by Alec McKinsey called The Time Trap. I read this book. As I read it, I underlined it and extracted notes like I do. I decided to put together a little sheet for it. I'll share that because it was a goldmine. I made a list of every single thing that I do in a day, over a three month period, because each day I had sometimes different things to do. But I wrote down everything I might be doing in those three months in a day. I just wrote them all down. And I don't mean broad generalities like marketing or this type of thing or radiographs or whatever. I mean, the actual actions. The actual moment by moment actions I do in those categories. I made a list of those and it was a big list. And I looked at it. Then right next that list, every single thing I did from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed, everything — home, personal, professional. I wanted to know what my day looked. I want to be an honest, objective view of what am I actually doing with my day. Because if I want to create my life the way I want, I've got to take a look at what I'm actually doing because if I'm not doing things that give me the results, no wonder I'm not getting there.

I made that list, and right next to it, in column number two of six columns is how much does it produce per hour. Which is a measure of actually meeting somebody's need as a service and people willing to pay. How much is that produced per hour? And that was humbling because there are whole lot of stuff that I will do without pay. I was minoring in majors and majoring in minors. I was doing all kinds of stuff that was just cost, no return. I stopped and I looked at that, and that was humbling, and frustrating, and a bunch of stuff went through my mind. I mean, I just, but I had to be honest to myself, what does it actually produce? I extrapolate. If I spent two hours on it, what is it per hour? Cut it in half. If I spent 30 minutes, I’d double the number to get an idea what it is per hour. There's a lot of stuff that was not making anything and there was a few things that were making a lot.

The third column I wrote down, how much meaning does it have? How much is it that makes me inspired to get up and do it? I can't wait to do what people can't wait to get. Those are the things I want to target. So I looked at it on a one to ten scale, how much meaning it was. I made a list on a one to ten scale of every one of those items, how inspired am I to do that? And there's a lot of stuff on there that was not inspiring, that I didn't want to do. I thought, 'Hell. I went to ten years of college for this?' I made this list and I put this one to ten thing. And then I prioritised the tens down to the ones. I prioritise productivity down from the ones that made thousands of dollars an hour to nothing an hour. I just prioritise them. And then I looked. There were some that were overlapped, where the thing that was most meaningful and inspiring match where it’s most productive. I prioritise that based on the two together. And that was really eye opening. Then I went to the next one because I realised that if I don't delegate, I'm trapped. Then I put what does it cost? Every cost. Not just salary, but training costs, no hiring costs, parking costs, insurance costs, everything. What is the cost of somebody excelling at doing what it is I'm doing at a greater job than me? What would it cost? On every one of those items? The best I could do? I had to just guess on something, but I definitely did the best I could.

And then I prioritise that based on spread, how much it produced versus how much it cost. Then I put another column. How much time am I actually spending on average? The final column, I wrote down, what are my final priorities with all these variables? I did a very thorough prioritisation system there. I sliced those into ten layers. I put a job description, I put a job description on that bottom layer, and hired somebody to do that but bottom layer. It took me three people to get the right person because I had to learn about hiring. I didn't know how about, hiring. I finally got the first person there, and that was free. That allowed me to go up a notch. And then I hired the next layer. What I did is it allowed me to go and put more time into the thing to produce the most, which was actually sharing a message of what I was doing publicly, with speaking. Public speaking was my door opener. I just kept knocking out layers.In the next 18 months, my business tenfold in increase in income and business. I had 12 staff members and five doctors working for me in a 5000 square foot office from under 1000 square foot original office in 18 months. Because I said goodbye to anything that weighed me down. Anytime you do something that's lower on your values, and anytime something hone your value value yourself and the world values you when you value. It's waiting for you just to get authentic and live by the highest values, which is your ideological identity. The thing you really revolve around you. Mine was teaching, so I call myself a teacher, right? So whatever that highest value is, if you prioritise your day and fill your day with high priority actions that inspire you, it doesn't fill up with low party distractions that don't, because it's now you're allowing yourself to be authentic. And it doesn't cost to properly delegate if you get the right people, and you go on and do what produces more per hour, it doesn't cost it makes sense.

Lisa: That's the hard part, isn't it? As is growing.

Dr John: You do your responsibilities. Go do the thing that knocks down the doors and goes and does the deals and then go and let them do all the crazy work. Like when I was 27, that's the last time I ever wrote a check or did payroll or looked at bills. I never looked at that again. Because that's a $20 an hour job and I could make way more speaking and doing my doctrine. So I thought, 'I'm not doing anything that's going to devalue me ever again in my life.' I've never gone back. 38 years, I've never gone back.

Lisa: So systematise. This is a thing here, where I have a bit of a problem, a bit of a chaos, right?

Dr John: I'm an ignoramus when it comes to anything other than research, write, travel, and teach. I'm useless. I'm not. I do jokes and say when I'm having I want to make love with my girlfriend. I tell her. I put my arms around I said, 'If I was to organise and have Hugh Jackman or Brad Pitt take care of lovemaking for you on my behalf and things like that, would you still love me?' One time if she said, 'No, I will still love you more.' I'm joking. That’s a joke. But the point is that if you're not delegating lower priority things, you're trapped.

Lisa: And this is the dilemma, I think, of small businesses is giving that mix right and not taking on people before you can go to that next level.

Dr John: But you go. You go to the next level by taking them on if it's done properly.

Lisa: If it's done properly, because I've-

Dr John: You want to make sure. That's why I have a value determination process on my website to determine the values of people I hire because if they're not inspired to do what I need to delegate, that's not the right person.You gotta have the right people on the bus, this column says. I have to be clear about what I can produce if I go and do these other things. And me speaking it, and doing the doctoring on the highest priority patients was way more productive financially than me doing those other things. So once I got on to that, I put somebody in place just to book speeches, and just to make sure that I was scheduled and filled my day with schedules with patients, it was a updated day and night. I've never gone back to that. I only research, write, travel, teach. That's it.

Lisa: That's my dream. I'm gonna get there.

Dr John: I don't do it. What's interesting is I became financially independent doing that because of that. I learned that if I don't value myself, and I don't pay myself, other people aren't going to pay me. If they're waiting for you to value you add when you value you, the world values you. You pay yourself first, other people pay you first. It's a reflection, economically, there. And that's what allowed me to do it. Because financial independence isn't for debauchery and for the fun life, in my opinion. It's for making sure that you get to do what you love because you love it not because you have to do it.

Lisa: And having an impact on the world. But if you're stuck doing the admin and the technical, logical stuff, and the crap that goes along with the business. You're not impacting the world like you want to be impacting.

Dr John: Weel, the individual that does the administration is impacting the world through the ripple effect by giving you the freedom to do it.

Lisa: Exactly.

Dr John: If that's what they love doing. That’s not what I love doing. But there are people that love administration, they love that stuff and love behind the scenes, I love doing that. Finding those people. That's the key.

Lisa: Finding those people. I's given me a bit of encouragement because I've been in that sort of groundhog days I had to get through the ceiling and get to the next level of reach.

Dr John: I finally realised that the cost of hiring somebody is insignificant compared to the freedom that it provides if you do your priority.

Lisa: If you get your stuff right, and know what you…

Dr John: Because the energy, your energy goes up the second you're doing what you love doing. And that draws business to you.

Lisa: Absolutely. I mean, like doing what we're doing. Now, this is my happy place.

Dr John: We’re both in our element. This is why we're probably going to slow down. The point is, when you're doing something you love to do, when you're on fire, with kind of an enthusiasm, people come around to watch you burn. They want to see you on fire.

Lisa: I mean, they do, they do. And I've seen that in times in my life where I've been preparing for a big race or something, and I need sponsors. I just go out there. At the start, I didn't know how to do a sponsored proposal, I didn't know how to do any of that fancy stuff. I just went out there and told the story. And by sharing the story, people were like, 'I want to get on board with this. That's exciting.' People would come on in and and when you don't know, one of the things that I've found in life is the less you know, sometimes the more audacious you are. When you actually have too much knowledge sometimes about the implications of what you're doing is when you can actually limit yourself.

Dr John: Yeah. Because you get in the herd instinct running on all the limitations. When you're inspired by something and there's no turning back. Everybody deep inside wants to be like that. So when they see something like that they want to engage. But you want to invest in inspiration, not rescue desperation. That's a basic law. Invest in inspiration, not rescue desperation. Nobody wants to rescue desperation unless they're compassionately in desperation and they're feeling hurt themselves. But if you take somebody and you show them what's possible, when Elon Musk goes out there and he has three explosions in a month on the way to Mars, they don't make any. He doesn't give up, he just goes, 'We're going to build another one.' There's no, 'Okay. It's a billion dollars. Let's spin 5 billion if we have to, but we're going to Mars.' Setbacks are nothing more feedback. That's the person who's inspired.

Lisa: Yeah. And that perseverance. I’m thinking that. You know the title of my book there is Relentless for a reason because you have to be like, no matter what, in that journey, there were months without progress. There would be months when we would see absolute nothing. And that was with all day every day working on it then seeing nothing. People would come to me and they'd say, 'Why are you putting her through this torturous regime every day? Why don't you just leave her be? Make her comfortable.' I don't do comfortable. Comfortable is not part of my vocabulary. Comfortable is 'We're going to die.' We can be comfortable for an hour in the evening, while I'm watching Netflix. That's the rest of the day.

Dr John: That's what I say about breaks. I say my job is to make you feel comfortable being uncomfortable.

Lisa: That's comfortable being uncomfortable.

Dr John: I’m gonna make you comfortable being uncomfortable. Because unless you are outside your comfort zone, it's not gonna, there's no stretch. there's no stretch. Just like in bodybuilding, if you don't push yourself a little further. I started out doing this year. The last year I started out doing 25 push ups, I went to 50 push ups, went to 75 push ups, went 200 broke 100. And I just kept adding another one. Just doing, trying to go and get my push ups up.

Lisa: And on that point, how have you stayed looking still like a teenager? What is it that? Is this the knowledge that you have that you just don't seem to age for a while?

Dr John: I was 17 when I started, I'm almost 67 now. All I did is that, means I only added 5. 1-2-3-4-5. So every decade was just one number. So I've only added five, five numbers to my age, since I was 17. That's the way I look at it.

Lisa: Well it looks like that. Are there some secrets to that? What is it that keeps you looking in?

Dr John: I don't live to eat. I eat to live. I don't pig out, I don't binge. I don't eat junk, I make sure that I'm eating performance. If you have something deeply meaningful that you want to do on a daily basis, you refine your diet into something that gives you performance. That's that's it, and I drink a lot of water. I haven't had coffee my whole life. I don't, I haven't had alcohol in 48 plus years. I've got a pretty simple life.

Lisa: Pretty simple life.

Dr John: And I’m doing what I love every day, I love what I'm doing. And that makes a difference. You don't age as much. Your cytokines, your inflammatory responses are down. You don't have distress. You have your stress, you have armies, and you move forward when you're doing something you really love to do every day.

Lisa: Wow. So no stress, good diet, none of the bad stuff.

Dr John: I’ve delegated all my stress to other people. You know, Hugh Jackman, they got the stress. They're the ones that gonna have to go through all that gyration and make love. I'm joking. I delegate stress to other people who would love to take it.

Lisa: Yep. And that's, oh, man, there's just so much gold in that. So what are some of the stuff as that you do, you talk about in the breakthrough experience? Talk me through a little bit of the process that you get people to take and so in a way, how can help people can join the breakthrough?

Dr John: One of those is owning the traits of the greats. I always say at the level, the essence of the soul, which is the real authentic self, you might think. Nothing's missing in you. But the level of your senses, things appear to be missing in you. And sometimes we compare ourselves to others. We put them on pedestals, we put them in pits, we put them above us or below is greater or lesser than us. We don't have an equal sign. So there's no equanimity and equity in there. Well, and as long as we do, we're going to inject their values and try to live in their values, which is futile, or project our values and try to get them to live in our values, which is futile. And all that futility, energy is what drains people. When you actually start to do something that is authentic to you, and are more objective, filling your day with high priorities. Think about when you really got, really knocked it out of the ballpark, and you stuck to priorities in the day you come home, you're resilient, you can handle anything. But if you put out fire and just had nothing but low priority stuff during the day, and you felt like 'Man, I never got to what was important today. What a day.' You're a bear when you come home, and that runs your immune system down. So,owning the traits of the greats finding out what it is around you, the heroes and villains around you own them. So you're not thinking, 'Oh, I need to be like them, or they need to be like me.' Just own it all. Give yourself to realise that if you're admiring somebody it's because you're too humble to admit what you see in them inside you, it's not missing, it's there. You haven't seen it. Become aware of it in your own form in your own value system. Don't compare yourself to them. Compare your daily actions to what you value most and stick to priority.

Lisa: And so when you start to think that someone else, because we do this all the time. We're comparing ourselves, you meet someone on the street and you're like, 'Oh, they're better looking than me either. They're richer than me. This or that.' Doing that act actually diminishes what you feel.

Dr John: But they don’t have a better life than you. That's what's so funny. I've met a lot of celebrities, a lot of impacting people, probably three or four thousand of them now. They're just human beings. And we think, 'Oh, my God. They got this great glitzy life.' No, they don't. I know some celebrities that can go outside without the paparazzi. They have to go flying into an island to hide somewhere. They have challenges that you probably don't want. But the reality is, they're not better. They're just different. And that's the realisation. They have a different set of values. They have a different set of 'successes and failures.' And if you compare yourself to them, you're going to minimise yourself. But if you actually go and find out what you see in them inside you in your own form. Otherwise, you're going to do what Einstein said. You're going to be a cat trying to swim like a fish and beating yourself up or a fish trying to climb a tree like a cat beating yourself up. Honour that you're a cat. I'm a professional speaker, I honour that I don't try to waver from what I know I'm here for.

Lisa: Yes, I love that. It's like understanding your genetics. I teach genetics and epigenetics, and that's a part of it. Understanding who you are owning who you are, instead of trying to be someone that you're not. Looking at the bad and the good, and the ugly, it is what it is, and how do we make the best of us.

Dr John: No matter what, no matter how ugly you are in the world, there's somebody out there that is going to love to look at you. That’s what’s funny. I was in Antarctica, I live on a ship as you know. We sailed down to Antarctica. There were penguins along I mean, as far as you can see is penguins. And I've watched the penguins. There were some really gimpy looking penguins that weren't that attractive. But I found if I waited there and watch long enough, another gimpy penguin found them and they made it with them. It was lovely. And then there was this really flaring debonair penguin, right? There's that perfect tuxedo on. There's this beautiful penguin, there was a penguin for everybody. I could see all my friends and their personalities in these penguins. It was quite interesting. So it's in the eye of the beholder, beauty. The same thing, we tend to think, 'Well, they've got a better deal.' No, they don't, they have a different deal.

Lisa: They have a different deal. Yeah. It's about you finding your priority, living your best life, living your optimal performance, and not getting yourself in the way and not letting other people control.

Dr John: What that is. If you don't empower your own life, people overpower you. Rose Kennedy had a mission statement. I actually was given a book by a woman who was a patient that her father gave her the book and her father got that book from the Kennedy family. So this was handed down from the Kennedy family to a father to a daughter to me. And in there, I was going through this book, and it was on magnetism. It's amazing book. In there was a handwritten note by Rose Kennedy. It was our mission statement. And it said, 'I dedicate my life to raising a family of world leaders.' That's her mission.There's a mother. And I've had mothers come up to me and said, 'Well, is that enough?' And I go, I read that to them. Anytime I have a mother that's thinking, 'Oh, I should be a businesswoman. I should be this. I should be that.' They really, really want to raise kids. But they're comparing themselves, and think that's not enough. I read that to them. Because she created world leaders as a mother.

Lisa: And that’s a ripple effect, isn’t it? That's the ripple effect that…

Dr John: Because her heart was there. Her heart was a way to be a mother. And we sometimes go, 'Oh, well, they're doing this so I should be doing this.' Anytime you hear yourself saying I should, I ought to, I'm supposed to, I got to, I have to, I must, or I need to, you're living under the imperatives of other people that you've subordinated to. You're injecting values, which is clouding the clarity of your own mission. Giving yourself permission to get your mission back and saying thank you, but no, thank you to options, who you are, and give you no truth to who you are. That's what’s liberating. Being unborrowed visionary, not a borrowed visionary.

Lisa: One valuable bomb after the other I think and this conversation, and it's just so empowering. Because you as human beings, we have this imposter in the head that's telling us we're not good enough. We aren't this, we aren't that. And we also have the subconscious that's running the ship. So we downloaded a whole lot of stuff when we were young that we didn't. When did you choose your beliefs? When did you choose your value system? When did you choose that you are going to be limited in this way or that way? Was probably before you even were able to understand how the people get into that subconscious and start to reprogram. Because a lot of people listen to this guy, 'Yes, yes, yes, I want to be like that.' And then …

Dr John: The thing is they set up a fantasy. Saying that as long as you have a fantasy your life becomes a nightmare. You got to set a real objective, something you're willing to embrace pain and pleasure in the pursuit of. If you're not willing to embrace both pain and pleasure, support and challenge, ease and difficulty in the pursuit of it, it isn't your mission because that's the sign of the mission. You're willing to do whatever it takes. Travel whatever distance, pay whatever price is, as that happened to me. So if you're looking, if you're in your amygdala, you're going to want to avoid predator and seek prey. Avoid pain, seek pleasure in the hedonistic pursuit, which is immediate gratification and short term outcomes. Person attend the executive centre has an executive vision. And they have a strategic planning, they want to think it through. When you go and run massive marathons, you sit down and go, 'Okay, what's the diet? What am I? What's my workout? What are the obstacles? What happens if I get too hot? What happens?' You think of everything and prepare. You have foresight and people with foresight get ahead. And people that live in hindsight, are always reacting. Number one thing to stops that is giving power to other people that you put on pedestals. We're not here to put people on pedestals, we're not here to live in their shadows. We're here to stand on their shoulders, as Newton did. So our job is to whatever we see, and other people own the traits of great. That's what I do in the breakthrough experience. What is it I admire about them? And where do I have it until it's quantitatively and qualitatively equal. So they're no longer up on this pedestal, and I'm no longer minimising because if I set a goal that matches their values, I'm going to beat myself up. You have self critical statements inside your head. That's not a bad thing. That's letting you know you're pursuing something that's not you. That's a feedback. The second you get on to what the navigation you, you don't have that. I've demonstrated that on thousands of people, the second they get on to them, they get tears of gratitude, they know what it is, that disappears. That's a homing device to try to get you to set real goals with real objectives that are deeply meaningful and quit trying to be somebody you’re not.

Lisa: Wow. So what about things like your amygdala you talked about the amygdala and your prefrontal cortex and your view executive function. What happens with people who have, I had Dr Austin Perlmutter on the show, Dr David Perlmutter. He's written a book called Brainwash. He talks about the separation between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex of the connection that the conversation isn't going backwards and forwards. And in people with brain injuries, for example, or with a lot of inflammation because they've been eating wrong foods are exposed to toxins. So there's an actual physical thing. How can people get their amygdala under control? Because we have so many people, whether it's from a brain injury or from bad foods, or whatever, living in this amygdala state where they're in a reactive, immediate gratification, make the short term decisions not looking at. This is affecting us worldwide. This is not only on the individual level, but also…

Dr John: Even some leadership levels. People are doing it. We have neuroplasticity, you know that. Neuroplasticity allows neurogenesis. They can reactivate neurogenesis and we can remyelinate with our oligodendrocytes, we can remyelinate that internal system. They ask them sites and oligodendrocytes are sitting there building and destroying he seems remodelling his house. Yeah, yeah. Now, every time we live by the highest priority, the highest value, the prefrontal cortex starts getting mileage and the neurogenesis and the neurons going from the prefrontal cortex with glutamate and GABA, the regulators of the amygdala, calm down the impulses and instincts, the amygdala they cause us to have these fantasies and nightmare states, these distractions.

So the second we start to go back to priority, the blood glucose and oxygen starts going up in the forebrain and starts myelinating that air, the brain, and we can neuro plastic to do if we stick to priority. But what we do is we're subordinating and fearing rejection and holding on to fantasies as a result of that, that aren't matching what we really are committed to. And we think we know ourselves, but we don't. Getting clear about that's why I have on my website, the value determination process to get clear about what you really value. Because most people, if I ask people, how many want to be financially independent, every hand goes up. And then I say, Well, how many are financially dependent? All the hands go down. I said, you really don't have a desire for financial empowerment you think you do, you have a desire to spend money on immediate gratifying, you know, consumables that depreciate in value, that's what your life's demonstrating.

You need to face the fact about what your values are, and know what those values are, if you want to really achieve what you say you're going to achieve. So a lot of people don't really have that they say they want something, but that's not really what their life's demonstrating. I want to know what their life's demonstrating they're committed to and structure their life around that. That's what upgrades the myelinisation on the forebrain.

Lisa: Wow. And so it's not just the foods that we’re eating.

Dr John: Food’s part of it! Inflammatory responses, but a lot of the inflammatory responses are associations made in the brain on things that are supportive or challenging of your body. So if you perceive something challenging you, you'll have a kind of an anti effect on it you'll have a you know, I always say that if you've got shame and guilt or whatever you're going to literally have an autoimmune response attacking parts of your body. Your body And brain is doing that it has this capacity to do that and, and the little microglial cells are actually part of the immune system, they're actually doing that to help apotosis to destroy cells in the brain that are being used if you don't usually lose it. And if you're looking for immediate gratification, you get a quick fix, because you're unfulfilled, you'll, you're not going to spend the energy on glucose and oxygen, and blood up in the forebrain, because you don't need it. That's why you have to set the priority, fill your day with the highest priority actions on a daily basis and rebuild your brain.

Lisa: Well, and that filters down onto all of these other levels, the physical levels, the order of many systems.

Dr John: Self-image changes. your momentum starts to build up, your confidence goes up, your self worth goes up your space and time horizons expand, you automatically start walking your talk instead of limping your life and your amygdala calms down. It's myelinisation and the forebrain pick it up. Welcome to the executive.

Lisa: Welcome to the executive the one that the adults back in the room and the kids.

Dr John: The adults are not the wild animal. Yeah, what's interesting is, is the executive function that forebrain has fibres ago to V-5, V-6 in the visual cortex and activate vision. And he goes down into the decision makings for strategic planning, and it goes to the associative motor functions to get spontaneous action. And it calms down the amygdala, the nucleus accumbens and the palate, and that calms them down and gets them ready for an inspired action.

Lisa: Wow, I'm not I'm just absolutely mind blowing and your knowledge of the brain and how that all that all works. Because this is the I mean, I've been, you know, deep in the study, obviously, with brain injuries and repair and in the short term thinking problem that we have in society in general. And in my own life, I've seen it, you know, I see, you know, when I go and do things that I don't want to be doing, because I'm looking at it out of balance state, I’m stressed for some reason, and so you go and do something that you go, ‘Why did I do this?’ You know, and it's understanding this whole interplay of the body and the mind, that is just so powerful. And for people who have diseases or autoimmune diseases, or, you know, cancers, and what is your take on how much the mind actually affects your bodily systems in given what we've just talked about?

Dr John: I wrote 1000 page text on the mind body connection, which is a, you know, what the messages of the body kind of thing. And through perception, the ratios of perception, impact through perception going into autonomics, the autonomic nervous system, if you have a perception, you've got more support and challenge your parasympathetic comes online, you get more challenges where your synthetic comes online. Yeah, those create neurotransmitter ratios, those create epigenetic impacts, because they literally cause kinase and phosphatase, responses and acetylation and methylation. Yep. And these, these are basically changing our physiology creating symptoms in our body. And most people don't take the time to look at applied physiology. I've been focusing on applied physiology since I was 23. Wow, and studying exactly what exactly is that cell? Do? Yeah. So I take a cell and I look at every receptor, and I look at every neurotransmitter and every modulator and hormone and and you know, and I look at those neuro regulators. And I look at what triggers those what parts of the brain what what autonomic component, what hypothalamus component, you know, what, what transmitters are involved in that. And I look at that, and I look at what are the symptoms that are coming out of that. And then I look at the combination of symptoms that we call a condition. And there's no doubt in my mind, there's psychology sitting inside there, no doubt in my mind, watching that and paying close attention that I wrote this big textbook on that just for that reason. And then what happens is people are so used to not wanting to take accountability for their own thing. They want to blame some outside source, and they want to look for some sort of solution, the bug and the antibiotic, right? The evil spirit and the Saviour kind of thing. And they're all dissociated, they're not taking accountability for their perception, decisions and actions in life. And I'm more about educating people on what their physiology is doing. Yeah, for instance, if a person goes in binges and pigs out which most everybody's done at least once. When they do, they wake up with kind of puffy eyes, nasal congestion, a little bit of a headache, a little nausea, stomach cramps, maybe some diarrhea the next day. Well, you go to the the allopathic physician, and he's gonna say, Well, you've got an antacid, you need. They give you six pills, and I and all your body was doing is creating the normal physiological response when you pigged out.

Lisa: And then you're going to add all of these problems to it.

Dr John: But the thing is that those symptoms are health. That's a healthy response to a pig. If you're a pig, you're gonna get that response. Yeah, if you don't eat that way, you don't have those symptoms. So the symptoms are feedback mechanisms. guiding us to an authentic life where we have self governance. That's the mission.

Lisa: And when we get when people get into this downward spiral of eating the wrong stuff, and then they have more cravings for the wrong stuff and you know becomes a mess. And they don't, when you don't understand the whole how the physiology works, and they don't even link together that the headache today was the headache last night.

Dr John: They're looking for the immediate gratification pill, wherever you're at, and the pharmaceutical industry loves to make the cash. Their medical reps are out there selling it. And you know what, I it's not bad or good. It's just that if you educate yourself, and you have options, and you're aware, you now realise you have the power to make a difference in your own life. That's the last resort. I haven't had a medication in my body for 49 years. Wow. No aspirin, no drugs, nothing. I don't take anything. I drink water. I haven't needed it. I don't have a headache. The only time I ever had a headache when I was doing bark mulch one day spreading bark mulch and I then got inhaled all this dust, and I got a headache. But my body let me know that. But if you listen to your body, it's guiding you very wisely. Eat wisely and fill it with wise things. And think about how you want to feel your life. If you feel it prioritise your life and do something you really love doing with the people you love doing it and make a career doing it and get paid for it. And eat wisely to live, not live to eat. You'd be surprised what your body is capable of doing.

Lisa: Yeah, and how long it can live and how well it can live and you're living proof of that.

Dr John: I’m still cranking. When it happened to me tomorrow, but I'm still cranking it out. I still got more energy than most people and 30 year olds that can't keep up with me.

Lisa: No. In the brain power is not diminished. You know, because this is what a lot of us fear. I don't fear it because I know what to do with it.

Dr John: The purpose of losing the purpose of losing your mind with Alzheimer's is just to be able to say that I don't know my kids anymore because you want them to move out.

Lisa: That might be a good point. You got it. You got it. You gotta laugh.

Dr John: That's a strategy to go. I don't remember my kids. No, no, no, no.

Lisa: Unfortunately, it's not. And we can see this coming 20 years out and you still talk to people on a daily basis who are facing this and their family and they don't think they have any power except the drugs.

Dr John: I was contacted by Bronnie Ware, who's out there in Australia, on the Byron Bay Area. And she wrote a beautiful book on you know, the five regrets that people have as they're getting ready to die. And most of them are because people weren't authentic. They did a job they didn't want to do with people they didn't want to do. And were afraid of people rejecting them. And their whole life was basically living and learning and excelling. And that's what that's what kills people. And then what happens? They got Monday morning blues, Wednesday, hump days, Thank-God-it's-Fridays and week friggin ends. And then they go in and they do and then blow it on some vacation to escape. And then they're in poverty. And then they're distressed and then their life went by. If you're not doing something you love doing and getting remunerated and handsomely paid doing what you love you missed out on your life.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And there is nothing evil about having money. I think this is another thing that we subconsciously think people who are wealthy must be bad. They must have done it in a way. And we think that on a subconscious level.

Dr John: I've been a bad person my whole life.

Lisa: You must be terrible.

Dr John: I was 27. I'm a bad person. No, what I found is that I made a commitment that I was going to master finance just like any other field. And I, you know, I read about 1400 books on that topic. And so I'd learned how to do it. And I started to save and invest and started doing things. And then I worked my butt off, I got a little ass because I worked. Yeah, and I've been serving and serving and serving and serving seven days a week. So I have no problem doing that. And I'm a believer that, you know, if you can be a slave to money, or you can be a master of it. If you're slave to you're gonna work your whole life for it. The people that say, well, all you I don't want money, it's bad and evil. They work their whole life for it. Yeah, I want it working for me, I make more money off my investments, than I do working doing anything else. I'd rather have it working for me. And so I can then decide what philanthropic thing I can do with that. I can do a lot with that.

Lisa: This is the power of having financial independence. Not that I've got there yet. But it's been able to have a bigger impact. You've been able to do more with your life. And this is the frustrating thing that so much talent in the world and so much people with big visions and skills are limited because they didn't have the resources to do it. And that’s it.

Dr John: Are any of you like, 'You don't empower somebody to overpower you.' I made a commitment to empower. I'm working on ideas that serve people and wake up genius. Yeah, I wanted to create a new national business globally, which I've done. I wanted to be able to have financial independence, which I've achieved. I want to have a global family. My partner lives in Turkey. Yeah. Wow. Right now. She just left. Just the other day just left. She's on her way to Turkey right now flying. Yeah. And she's magnificent. She's one of the top singers, actresses and models in the world. So I mean, you can have exactly what you set your mind to do. And I'm a believer that you can have influence and you can have a vital body and you can be inspired and create an inspiring movement for people. There's nothing stopping us from doing what it is that we would really love to do, except us not willing to do the actions to get there.

Lisa: Yeah. And getting the knowledge and getting the teachers and getting the books and getting the mentors and, and we have access to it all now. We have the damn internet. Like, why? Well, we just have access to anybody who says to me, 'Well, I can't go and how did you do that with your mother, you're not a doctor? I don't need a doctor, I don't need to be in here.'

Dr John: Mere onlining. You start digging and start researching.

Lisa: Exactly. And you can become an expert on your particular field pretty quickly. If you're really dedicated to doing that.

Dr John: I learned a long time ago when I was in my 20s that if you spend 30 minutes a day on a particular field, studying it intensely, at the end of seven years, you can be at the cutting edge. Wow. If you do an hour, no, an hour a day, you could do it in four years. If you did it two hours a day, two and a half years if you did three hours a day and do it under two years. Wow. And I did I demonstrated that in astronomy. I demonstrated that in dentistry in my field of neurology. I demonstrate I prove that. And so I'm absolutely certain you can intensify time sometimes intensity gives results.If you intensify your actions in a shorter period of time, you can get the same results quicker than most people think

Lisa: How do you retain that information? Because that was one of the problems that I've been you know dealing with I'm processing so many books, so much information, so many podcasts, so many things all the time then in a lot of it keeps falling out the other side of my I like to say it goes in on ear and comes out the other.

Dr John: I give it out as fast as I could. The sooner you give it out, the moment you get it, give it out, teach it the faster the faster output with input, the more the retention. It’s a basic law. So if I'm reading something I, I used to get up at two o'clock in the morning, do yoga up till two thirty speed read four to seven books by six thirty. I used to just read, read, read. And then I would go to jog and I go and clean up and I go to class and I go to clinic. And then I come back home at seven and I taught from 7 to 10 PM. 10 PM I went to bed and got up at two and I did it again. Wow. Each night. Each night that night, I would teach what I read that morning. And I planned out like what I was going to read I planned out my teaching. And I had classes every night people came to there and paid me. You know, while I was a student I was 23 years old made over $100,000 a year just teaching every night. And now that is a result of just the faster I get it, the faster I give it out. And that catalysed a retention and an integration of information. And so keep using it, you use it you don’t lose it.

Lisa: Don't wait till you're an expert. And you know, don't wait two years before you start teaching. Just get an idea right now.

Dr John: Teaching is the fastest way to learn it. It organises your mind and present in order to present it to you. You have an accountability, like put a deadline on it and teach it that's that's how you learned.

Lisa: Yeah. And that's forcing yourself to retain it.

Dr John: It's like saying, if you just saved money, you'll get ahead if you wait until you have extra money you won't. You never wait for you just you always pay yourself first I learned a long time ago. Don't wait until you have extra money. Just pay it. And watch how more money comes to you. When you manage money wisely you get more money to manage. That's the law.

Lisa: Dr John Demartini, you are a legend. I've learned so much today. And in this one hour session with you. It went to places that I wasn't expecting because you know I've studied your work. I know what you do. And yet this absolutely blew me away, actually meeting you face to face to feel your energy, your passion, your compassion for humanity is just next level, it's really made my day. In fact, I'm gonna go and change some things up I think because you spoke to me with some of my frustrations that I'm dealing with in my personal life. And I know that people that are listening to this will be like putting this on repeat. So thank you so much for your dedication to, to the work that you do. I know you could just sit back and relax now and not do anything, but you haven't. And then you never will, I don't think because you just have a passion for humanity in helping with their suffering in changing people's lives. So thank you so much for doing all that.

Dr John: Thank you for but some people think I caused the suffering.

Lisa: Well, I do I agree you probably do in the short term while we're getting the change.

Dr John: I have people they go, 'You’re going to make me accountable?' I said, 'Yeah, you want me to punish you, I'm making you accountable. Let's go, that's the suffering.'

Lisa: You haven't done a little one pill for me?

Dr John: If you feel that your life was suffering that you love, it's inspiring

Lisa: It is absolutely. Strength comes from struggle that's on my boxing club wall. You know and that is the more you have to fight against something the more challenged you are by something the more you are forcing yourself to learn, to grow, to develop, get stronger. That is one of the roles of the world, so you better be comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Dr John: That's it. Thank you.

Lisa: Brilliant.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand the different phases of the stress model and how to manage stress optimally based on your body type. 2. Learn the ways your body type responds to stress, fasting and immunity. 3. Discover the key pillars of building a robust immune system.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limits Podcast by becoming a patron! You can choose between being an official or VIP patron for $7 and $15 NZD per month, respectively. * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * Pushing the Limits Episode 36: Epigenetics - The Future of Personalised Health, Fitness, and Understanding Your Uniqueness * Pushing the Limits Episode 185: Personalised Health: Looking at Different Body Types and Genetics with Dr Cam McDonald * Connect with Dr Cam: Website | Instagram | Linkedin | Email | Phone: 0411380566 * Take the ph360 HealthType Test to discover your body type and get your Personalised Health Plan! * Check out ph360's website to learn more about their services on personalising your health program.

Episode Highlights [04:39] Understand How Stress Works * Stress is anything that takes our body away from homeostasis. * The stress cycle includes recovery so your body can learn from the experience. However, prolonged exposure to stress can cause lasting damage. * Many things can be considered stress. Exercise, work, undersleeping, and relationships are examples. * Resilience requires exposure to stress. Learning how to manage stress is essential to building strength.

[09:17] The Alarm and Coping Phases * The first two stages of the stress model are the alarm phase and the coping phase. * The Alarm Phase is when we become neurally alert and anxious to pick up helpful information. * The Coping Phase is when our body adjusts to cope with the situation. This stage can mean higher blood pressure and blood sugar levels to sustain our energy. * During the Coping Phase, your body focuses on giving you fuel instead of fighting infections. Hence, immunity is usually lower during this phase. * Listen to the full podcast for an in-depth explanation of the two initial stages of stress.

[16:09] The Recovery Phase Helps Make Us Stronger * The third phase of the stress model is the Recovery or Exhaustion Phase. * This phase is a crucial part of stress. Our bodies need time to grow and learn from previous strains. * Once in this phase, your body can now tackle all the viral infections. It can replenish your nervous system. * This phase is why you feel tired after a long day's work. It's your body's way of telling you to relax and recover.

[19:03] Resilience and How to Manage Stress Optimally * Suppose you're always in the coping phase of higher blood pressure and blood sugar levels. This exposure can lead to the body shutting down completely. * If you recover correctly, you can take on stress again. * Resilience is about the ability to take the time to recover and learn lessons. It's not about how much you can take. * Having a better mindset, awareness, and mindfulness can help improve your immune system.

[21:16] Different Body Types Respond Differently * People have different responses to stress. Naturally, the way we manage stress is also different. * People are different on a physical, mental, and even behavioural level. * How we develop in the womb determines which organ and hormone are dominant. * For example, lean individuals tend to spend more time in phase one of stress. Their ability to handle stress is generally lower. * Also, the temperature is essential for this body type. Staying warm is difficult, so cold areas can raise their stress levels.

[30:05] How Guardians or Connectors Respond to Stress * Guardians or Connectors tend to have more muscle mass prolactin levels. Their instinct is to protect other people. * When these people are stressed, they conserve energy and store as much as possible. * Guardians or Connectors usually get stressed from social disconnection. * When they do morning high-intensity workouts, they can put on more weight. * People who have a heavier build tend to put on weight when stressed. Hear Dr Cam's explanation on how to manage stress for this body type in the full episode!

[37:28] How Activators Respond to Stress * In contrast, Activators have naturally high adrenaline levels. They constantly look for uncertainty, variety, and competition. * For this body type, being limited and trapped stresses them. Activators need to expel and use energy continually. * Recovery is then crucial for this body type. They must keep looking for high adrenaline activities.

[45:06] How Fasting Affects Your Body * People should fast depending on the body type. * For leaner individuals, it's ideal to have shorter fasting periods. Guardians can handle more extended fasting periods. * Activators will need to reduce their activities if they want to fast. They can instead take on more calming exercises instead of high-intensity ones.

[48:30] Building Blocks of Immunity * There are three main pillars to building a robust immune system. These are sleep, environment, and movement. * In general, all body types need 7 to 9 hours of sleep to recover. * Next, personalise your environment according to your body type so you can heal better. * All body types need movement and exercise. Learning how to manage stress optimally involves knowing when and how to exercise. * Listen to the full episode to hear some ways activity can be different based on your body type.

[57:16] Listen to Your Body to Learn How to Manage Stress * Your body is always looking out for your best interests. * Listen to your body and acknowledge when it's time to rest and recover. * When you start taking care of your body, your immunity will naturally improve.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘And so if you prolong that, or put the wrong kind of stress on somebody, then it creates damage. But then the really cool thing about the stress cycle is that if you recover, then that your body learns.’

‘What happens in your resistance phase? It essentially assumes that you are being chased by something very urgently. You need to get away from like a saber-toothed tiger essentially.’

‘And one of the biggest problems just to expand this to one final timeline is that you do this for 10 years. Yeah. And your body says I need you to stop completely. And that's a heart attack.’

‘So what's so fascinating about how we develop and how we grow as individuals from the womb, and we've discussed this on previous podcasts as well, is that we have certain stresses that will be more stressful for us than for other people.’

‘And so what we know is the type of things that stress this person is cold. Firstly, if they're very, very cold, their body doesn't have the muscle or the fat tissue to stay warm. And that really drains their energy levels.’

‘So this individual, they have more hormones like prolactin, and they are more likely to be insulin resistant. They have a slightly slower thyroid as well.’

‘So those leaner, more delicate bodies will go within themselves, they'll try and be alone, so that they can create certainty, because certainty in their future creates safety for them and warmth as well.’

About Dr Cam Dr Cam McDonald has spent the last decade furthering his knowledge and skills to promote accessible health. He's a dietitian and exercise physiologist. He has a long-standing personal passion for health, genetics, and environmental influences. His goal is to support all people to live up to their full physical potential.

Cam has a firm focus on people becoming more aware of themselves. He wants them to know their natural strengths and optimal behaviours for the best health. He is an informed speaker who has a passion for fitness and the inspiration to do something about it.

Want to know more about Dr Cam's work? Check out his website or follow him on Instagram and Linkedin. You can also reach him through email (drcam@yourgeneius.com) or phone (0411380566).

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn how to manage stress optimally.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential. With your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today I have another super interview with Dr Cam McDonald, who you may recognise from previous episodes that we've done. Now, Cam McDonald is the ph360 CEO in Australia. And he's one of the world's leading experts in personalised health and the use of genetics and epigenetics. He really understands when it comes to individuals being able to understand the strengths of the unique biology, and how it gives them an exact pathway to better health in a way that makes it easy for them. He's a leader and educator, a scientist, motivator, and he is a crusader on a mission is what Dr Cam is. And he is a wonderful guy.

Now today we are going to be talking about the stress response, what happens in the body when you are under stress. We're also going to be talking about how that pertains to your specific health type or your body type with your specific genetics, and how different people react in different ways to stressors, and how genetics actually makes a 50% contribution to this whole thing. We're also going to be looking at resilience and stress management and how to build a better, more resilient, stronger you. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr Cam McDonald.

If after listening to this episode, you're keen to do the epigenetics program, which were steeped in and have been using for a number of years now with our athletes and with corporates and with individuals wanting high-performance people dealing with very difficult health journeys, then we'd love you to check out what we do here on over to lisatamati.com and push the button ‘Work With Us’ and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program here, you can either jump on a live webinar with us, we have one every couple of weeks, or just reach out to us or just sign up for the program, it will be life changing for you. It will help you optimise every aspect of your life: not only your your food, and your exercise, which everybody wants to know about and what's right for you, but also everything to do with your mood, behaviour, the brain function, what social environments you'll do well and what physical environments you do well, and we touch on some of these topics in today's episode. So head on over to lisatamati.com, under the ‘Work With Us’ button, you'll see that there.

Before we head over to Dr Cam, just reminder that we have our premium membership for the podcast Pushing the Limits open now, we would love you to come and join our VIP tribe. We've been going now for five and a half years with this podcast and it is an absolute labour of love. And we really need your support to keep us on air, to help us spread the information from these world leading experts to you. So if you like what the whole podcast is about, if you can spare just a few dollars a month, that's really a cup of coffee or two a month, depending on what level you want to join us at. We would really appreciate that, and for your troubles, of course we have a lot of premium member benefits for you there over on that www.patron.lisatamati.com URL. So that's patron, P-A-T-R-O-N dot lisatamati.com.

And lastly, before I head over to Dr Cam, please check out my new longevity and anti-ageing supplement. I've co-founded a company here that is doing NMN supplements with Dr Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist. And this is a, NMN is a very powerful compound that some vitamin D, vitamin B3 sorry, derivative that helps upregulate the sirtuin genes and improve longevity and autophagy and lots of great things in the shell. So if you want to know a little bit more about the science behind the NMN and why you should have it, then please check out our website at www.nmnbio.nz That's N-M-N bio.nz.

Right, over to the show with Dr Cam McDonald.

Hi, everybody and welcome to Pushing the Limits. Super excited to have you with me here again today. I have a repeat offender on the show Dr Cam McDonald, who's coming on for how many times is this? Number three, I think, Dr Cam?

Dr Cam McDonald: I think yeah, it is number three. Yeah, we've done a combo, we've done a solo and now another solo.

Lisa: Yeah. Today we're going to be talking about resilience, stress and immunity, and how to personalise your protocols and your lifestyle interventions for your particular genetic type to increase your resilience and immunity. So Dr Cam, where should we start with this big topic? It's a big, it's something that everyone's talking about at the moment as immunity and lowering stress levels.B ecause when we're stressed when we got lots of stress hormones running through us all the time, which I think you and I probably both do, to a certain degree with our jobs and our lifestyle and our genetics. How do we manage that on a day to day basis? And how do we personalise that and understand that in regards to our own sort of body make-up and health types?

Dr Cam: That's a great opening question, Lisa, that is as broad as your life. So probably, I reckon the best way that we would start with this is, is just by defining these things like stress and resilience and even immunity. So I guess stress can be defined as anything that takes our body away from homeostasis. So we're calm, we're cool, we're collected, we're lying in bed. Waking up and putting your feet on the floor actually creates a stress on our vascular system. Our blood has to start moving harder, because it's now moving against gravity, that creates a little bit of a stress that's taken us away from that resting state. And so if you prolong that, or put the wrong kind of stress on somebody, then it creates damage. But then the really cool thing about the stress cycle is that if you recover, then that, your body learns. So it goes, alright, I've got damaged here. And I'm now going to learn about that, and in my recovery, I'm going to get stronger so that that same stress, when I get exposed to it again, doesn't affect me as much.

And so I guess some examples of stress might be, exercise is a stress. We don't think about it that way, we think what's positive exercise is positive. Yeah, but exercise is actually a stress. It makes us feel, it actually puts a demand on our body. And you will know, running your ultramarathons, that your body is not in its best health at the 90 kilometre mark. It is at its best, they'll probably before the race starts, and then your body is exposed to a prolonged period of stress. But then you do that your body then rests and recovers and you get stronger so that you can get up and do it again.

But then there's other stresses, you know, like our workload, and being underslept, and eating the wrong food, and being in relationships, that great stress. All of these things put a demand on our body and our mind. And this tells the body that there's some sort of emergency. And so in that emergency, we have to take action, we have to cope, which we can expand on. And then we have, then we get very tired and we get exhausted. And then that's when we need to recover. So for me, a stress is really anything that takes us away from that rested state.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Cam: If it's short, and the right kind of thing, and then we recover, we get stronger. If it's prolonged, and there's no recovery, then it can help us deteriorate and lead to very poor health and lowers our immune system as well. And then when it comes to resilience, resilience is about being exposed to stress, but being able to handle it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: And so, when, it's different to recovery in that you're getting stronger resilience, as in you are in the stress. And generally if you have, I like to think of resilience as having resilience juice. You've got a certain amount based on your capacity to tolerate stress. And so you know, the training that you've put in, the mindset that you have, gives you more juice so than in any given stress, you can tolerate a better and push forward. And I'd have to say that resilience, or stress is essential. And so we have to have stress to grow. Therefore, we must have resilience to be able to tolerate that stress so that we can continue growing. If we run out of resilience, we don't want to expose ourselves to stress ever. But this doesn't allow us to grow then. So this is where I see those two things into playing. And then the immune system is one of those things that you can have an underactive immune system that isn't mounting a good response. Or you can have an overactive immune system, which has actually been attacking your own body, autoimmune conditions. And so we're really looking when we're talking about immune health, we're talking about that sweet spot right in the middle where we're aggressively fighting things from the outside, but protecting our own tissues and organs at the same time. So I reckon that's a place to start. We can go from there.

Lisa: Yeah, that's, he just done, he did that so well. So I think so stress, resilience and immunity are all interlinked. And we need a certain amount of stress. And we talk about hormetic stresses, and how good they are for our bodies because they cause a cascade of events. When I hop into the sauna, it's hot and I'm sweating, and that's causing a response in the body. I don't want to be in there for three hours, though, because that's going to kill me, probably. But a small, short, sharp shock can often be helpful in creating a hormetic stress. So what we're trying to do is avoid the chronic stressors, the sort of stuff, excuse me, that builds up over time and the stuff that's going to be negative for our mindset, and our ability to cope.

So when we have our stress response, Dr Cam, what actually happens in the body? So—I don't know—someone cuts you off in traffic, or you get a nasty email from your boss or something like that, or you have a fight with your spouse or, what's actually going on on a physiological level?

Dr Cam: Yeah, awesome. So there's a really beautiful model that talks about the stages of stress and design by Hans Selye. And this has stood the test of time, and it's definitely the way that we need to understand stress. So we have our—it's a four-stage model, with the first stage being homeostasis, when you just chill out, like you're sitting in the car, there's no real stress, you're just driving along. What happens when you get cut off, or the boss yells at you, or says', I want to see you in’... probably the boss saying, ‘I want to see you in my office in 10 minutes in an hour, even better’.

And so what happens in that first stage of stress is you become neurally alert. Alarm stage, it's called. Essentially, all of your senses will become more alert to say, ‘What's going on here? And what kind of information do I need to pick up from the environment to make sure that I'm going to be okay'? So you go to alarm phase, it's like, ‘What's going on? what's happening’? And so that's where we get anxious, which is worrying about the future, it's like what could possibly be coming in our future. And so that alarm stage, and another way to think about it is you're standing on the start of a 800-metre race. So you've got that, that nervous energy, the gun hasn't gone off yet, all in your brain. Yeah. So that's alarm stage one.

Alarms, sorry, and then we go into resistance stage two. Resistance stage is where we are now in the fight. We're now in the boss's office, defending ourselves. We are 500 metres through the race, where our body, it's now no longer a matter of ‘I've got to be alert to the environment', but rather, ‘I've now got to get in and fight. And I've got to cope'. And so this coping thing is something that we're doing all of the time. So, and in the, the great example, obviously, would be yourself in a long-distance run. Your body has to cope with all of the stress of continuing, when your body wants to stop. And genuinely it says, ‘I want to stop. This stress is not fun, I want to stop, please'.

The same thing goes for your—you've had a bad night's sleep for five nights in a row. And now you've got a front up at work. And you have to cope with the tiredness. And so that coping is resistance stage two. What your body does to cope in stage one, our nervous system becomes aware in stage two, our blood pressure goes up, our blood sugar levels go up. Now, blood fats go up. Everything that's going to support energy release in the body, and making sure that we can maintain a very high level of energy, they are going to be the systems that go up. And so you know, because when you're 500 minutes to a ratio of blood pressure, if it drops, you won't have enough blood to pump around your body.

So in order to cope, it has to keep your blood pressure up. If you're tired and underslept your body in order to cope with the workload, it needs to have a blood pressure that's going to allow you to stay awake, you need to have blood sugars that give you fuel, you need to have blood fats that give you fuel.

And so in stress, your body breaks down muscle.

Lisa: Can’t avoid.

Dr Cam: And turns that into carbohydrates for your brain, and it breaks down fat tissue and turns it into fats for your body, your blood pressure goes up. And so now we have this. Essentially, if you have a 500-metre race, it would look, I haven't made the race, it would look like you have sort of diabetes and high blood pressure if you want to take a snapshot of that race.

Lisa: And I'm done that in the middle of things. And it’s like, the individual training sessions and I took, I remember taking my blood sugar. I've been fasting for 18 hours, did an interval training session, took my blood sugar and it was at 9.5 and I had a heart attack. Like, what the hell!

Dr Cam: Exactly. Hopefully you didn't have a heart attack.

Lisa: No, I don’t.

Dr Cam: But you know, looking like a profile, your profile would have. So this is what's so important is that exercise, that under sleep, it makes your body cope. And blood pressure isn't bad, blood pressure is keeping you awake. High blood sugars aren't bad. They are providing fuel for your brain. Blood fats are bad, high triglycerides aren't bad, they are keeping your body fuelled. And so we see these things as bad things but in fact, they are our coping mechanisms. Without them we wouldn't be able to get through the day.

Lisa: Right, in the short term.

Dr Cam: in the short term. And this is the problem is that you'll then persist with this. But before we get there, what happens in your resistance phase? It essentially assumes that you are being chased by something very urgently you need to get away from, like a sabre-toothed tiger, essentially. Yeah, and so on. Your immune system goes, ‘Well, I don't have the energy to tackle these bacteria, to mess with this virus. I just need to make sure that I can supply as much fuel down to my bones and my muscles as I can so that we can get out of here. And then I'll worry about my bacterial infections later’.

And so while we're in this coping phase, your immune system gets suppressed, it goes down. And this is why, in some autoimmune conditions, they actually use very strong immune suppressants and reduce the immune system because the immune system, in stress, depresses. And so in coping phase, if it's really short happy days, because your body can tolerate that, that's what it's designed for. But then it's been 12 weeks of low sleep, lots of coffee, which increases your alarm stage, pushes your blood pressure up, you're working really hard so you’ve got that mental stress as well. And then, over a prolonged period of time, your body hasn't had a chance to recover. And so then you then go on holidays.

Lisa: And what happens? Yeah, you get sick.

Dr Cam: You get sick! And you think that this is your body being even more sick, we think I'm sick. So therefore my body is even worse than it was at work. But what's happened is that you've just delayed your immune system to turn on, even though your body was just as sick, probably more sick. What happens now in stage three is exhaustion phase or recovery phase.

Lisa: Right.

Dr Cam: And so your body, in order to gain growth, like get stronger from a workout, you know, you take a muscle to temporary fatigue when you're lifting weights. And what happens? Your muscle gets exhausted, can't lift another weight, it then rests for 48 hours, and it comes back stronger. So this exhaustion phase is actually really important. But what happens when you get sick, your body, your brain, it's like, as you turn off work, your brain finally dials down that internal stress, that reason to cope. And so now you don't have to cope anymore. And so all of your recovery mechanisms now increase.

And one of the best ways for your body to recuperate as quickly as possible is to lie flat on your back for a week. So I'm gonna make you incredibly sick. I'm going to tackle all these bacterial, these viral infections. I'm going to recover your body; I'm going to try and replenish your nervous system. And I'm going to do that as quickly as possible. And so I'm going to drive a lot of symptoms that help our bodies slow down, so that you do take some rest. Because our body is speaking to us!

Lisa: ‘I’m gonna knock the crap out of you!’

Dr Cam: Saying, ‘Hey, you've been going too fast for too long, you need to rest and recover. I'm going to make that happen now, I'm going to make it hard for you to get up'. Your body is actually on your side. And we see this even at a day to day level where if you get tired throughout the day, so you wake up in the morning, you've got some really important stuff on, you have some coffee that puts you even more alert and coping your system. You’re then pushing hard all day long. You're on your best behaviour at work. Yeah, you then get home and your brain switches off. Yep. And you're not yet sick. But your brain is so exhausted that it switches off, at least the prefrontal cortex does.

Lisa: Yeah, and then you become a horrible person.

Dr Cam: Your control, you become this person who hates their family, all of us don't understand why.

Lisa: Irritable, shifting. Hey, guys last night–

Dr Cam: Exactly. We all do, I think I've stepped out of a few of those myself. And so we have this short-term experience of stress, and then recovery, which is exercise. Short-term stress, recover, get stronger. Short term stress of day to day, you know, but it's probably a bit longer than what our body would like. We get stressed, we have to recover, we have to recover with rest. And if we don't get that rest, then it'll express itself through shortness, we won't have that tolerance that we had at work. Because we don't have that as much cope on, we're exhausted. Yes.

Lisa: Wow, that's just really, that’s so pertinent to what I did last night. Got very shitty, had to go for a very long walk. And because I had a hard, stressful day, and this exactly what happened, you know. I had a bit of a meltdown, and then came home and got my shit together. But I know I should do, I know I should go for a walk.

Dr Cam: Exactly, exactly. And one of the biggest problems just to expand this to one final timeline is that you do this for 10 years.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: And your body says I need you to stop completely. And that's a heart attack. You know, it's like you've been coping for long enough, your blood pressure has been high enough for long enough, your cholesterol has been high enough for long enough, so much that it has created damage because there's been no recovery. So now I'm going to stop you for six months.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: Because it's been so long since we stopped last time. And so the key part of this stress piece is you can expect any stress, but it's about the recovery that is most important. If you recover appropriately, you get stronger, and then you repeat that stress again. And this is where the resilience comes in is because if you see stress as a positive, even stress at work, and you have like a really tough day at work, you go, ‘Whoa! I've learned how my body responds in stress. I'm gonna learn, or I now know how to deal with that situation better’. That resilience mindset right there, that allows you to actually lean into those lessons, recover, and actually get a lesson for next time as well.

But if you've got a mindset that this stress is killing me, then you don't fully recover, and your mind will actually create more stress on top the next time you experience the same thing as well. And so this is where that resilience base in that mindset is not just physical, is how much can you tolerate? How much can you cope physically before your body cops in? But also, how much—how you’re shaping your thoughts around this stressful experience as well. So and just having a better mindset and more presence and more awareness and more mindfulness, essentially, will actually improve your immune system, because you don't go into the same level of stress, because you've got a mindset that is able to… Yeah, exactly.

Lisa: You can see things coming sort of thing and in trying to try to hit it off in the past sort of thing before that, because we you know, we all, I think for years and years, I hear people say, ‘Oh, stress, you know, stress is bad for you, or you're going to have a heart attack'. If you keep going at that rate, that type of talk that you hear, but you don't understand, really, the mechanisms that are at play in this game, and what's actually happening. And the situation with our lives at, presently, you know, what we've got, you know, COVID in the world, which has caused, as a society, a huge amount of stress, and uncertainty and all these sorts of things. So now is a particularly important time to work on these tools and to be able to, you know, build our resilience.

And one of the things I wanted to mention there was that, if you're, as you know, hard charging type A personalities, got a lot of stress hormones anyway. You have, you know, when I was younger, this especially was like, just toughen up, just go harder and just deal with it. And if you're tired, work bloody harder instead of going the opposite. And that works for a certain amount of time, until it doesn't, and then you burn out. And, you know, so let's look at now, how different health types you know, because Dr Cam, as everyone knows, hopefully you listened to the podcast is the CEO of ph360. This is a genetic program that we look at the epigenetics and how your environment is affecting your life and your health. So let's look at how do, and why do, different people react differently to the same stressor? You know, why can somebody have something horrible happen to them, and get up the next day and carry on, and the other person's down for the count? You know, what were the realisation coming in?

Dr Cam: Yeah so, what's so fascinating about how we develop and how we grow as individuals from the womb, and we've discussed this on previous podcasts as well, is that we have certain stressors that will be more stressful for us than for other people. For example, you look at a sumo wrestler, right? A sumo wrestler, if they get pushed by a 60-kilogramme, 15-year-old boy, they're gonna go, ‘Oh. That's not a stress at all. In fact, it tickles a little bit'. Versus then you look at him that 15 year old boy push an infant, that's very, very different to the experience of stress. And so obviously, that's a quite an extreme example, but I wanted to make the point or even if another 60 kilos, 15 year old person, they push them, it creates a different type of stress. So physically, we're different. Mentally, we are also different as well. And behaviourally, we genetics determine over 50% of our personality, or at least 50% of our personality. And so how we respond to different things is built into our biology as well, and into our genetics.

And so what we see is that different people will actually appear in these phases of stress differently as well. And so a person like us, so we've got, we've got Crusaders on the census in the pH360 model. Essentially, the wedges are a quick background. So how we develop in the womb determines which organs and hormones are going to be dominant in our body. Those then contribute to how our body shape and size actually develop.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Cam: So we have some individuals that develop from the layer of the embryo that is more predominant in the nervous system, so the nervous system gets more fuel, the musculoskeletal system and the digestive organs, they get less fuel. And so we end up with a body that has less muscle, less fat, less bone, generally a very fine delicate structure, and hormones that make them—and our nervous system that's very heightened, and hormones that make them very heightened as well, lots of noradrenaline, dopamine.

And so when we look at a very lean, delicate individual. When we think about how they're going to tolerate stress, if they get left out in the jungle, we know that their ability to tolerate that stress is going to be lower because they have less reserves on their body. They have not as much time before they starve because they're fat tissue and muscle tissue just isn't as great as somebody with a much more substantial body. And so these things are being determined very early on in their life.

And so when we talk about stress for this individual, their nervous system is the thing that protects them from stress, because they don't have big, strong muscles that are gonna help them fight. They don't have a big reserve. They have a very hot nervous system. And so they spend a lot of their time in stage one stress. When they go into stress, they immediately start thinking about the future, and where is my certainty in the future coming from. So they're much more prone to be anxious in a stress, because as soon as their environment gets disrupted, they, they start processing neurally to escape. They have to think their way out of trouble. And the things that stress them...

Lisa: They can't fight their way out, so they have to use their brain.

Dr Cam: They have to make a sweet recovery station up in a tree somewhere where they're safe from predators, and set some traps because they don't want to be in hand to hand combat, like they need, really need to be strategic about it. And so what we know is the types of things that stress this person is cold. Firstly, if they're very, very cold, their body doesn't have the muscle or the fat tissue to stay warm. And that really drains their energy levels. And so temperature is huge. So if you put this person in lots of air conditioning, it actually makes them stressed. This is why we have so many people in offices, stressed by sitting in air conditioning, or while wearing three or four scarves. Because temperature is so important to be controlled, but they can't control it, they actually need external heat to control their temperature.

We also know that their nervous system is more heightened, because the way that they protect themselves is to be in stage one most of the time. So they need to essentially be on high alert. So any noise, people doing random things. And when I say random things, lots of people around them, people are a little bit unpredictable. So their brain is alert to unpredictableness or unpredictability I should say. And so we have cold, we have lots of noise, we have lots of people, people touching them, watch all of these things is going to overload their nervous system, which is the thing that they need to be safe. Yeah, and this creates an enormous amount of stress. As a result, this person is going to need to spend more time in the warm by themselves. And this is because that allows them to dial their senses down and come out of stage one. Because any noise, any cold is like an alert to their body saying this environment is not safe.

And when it comes to how they can manage stress, their mind is very, very important. If they can calm their mind, and also have very, very clear dot points on what they're trying to achieve, and very clear outcomes and guidelines, that brings a whole lot of peace to their brain. Because if they're working with known rules, ‘I have my rules. And if I apply this rule, then my future is now certain. And I don't have to worry about the future anymore, because I'm following the rules'. And so everything for their body is very neural inside, how do I create certainty? How do I reduce the amount of mental alertness that I have? And you need to reduce the amount of mental stimulation.

So this will often come along with long, slender bodies with less muscle tissue, less fat tissue. And in order for them to feel best, they need to have a very clear mind, a calm mind with a very calm environment. And so, you can see though, they would spend a lot of time in stage one constantly checking out the environment.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: And that itself can be very exhausting. And so if they're in an environment where they're constantly on like in a really crowded place, or in a nightclub or a festival where there's lots of people and lots of noise, it will, they'll be in cope, just trying to manage all of the nervous stimulation and they'll become exhausted quite quickly because their physical resilience is not as great. They get drained very easily because their nervous system gets tired very easily. Whereas it's very different for other people.

Lisa: So let's for the slender, slight built, not much muscle person, let's go to the opposite end of the scale and look at someone like a Guardian or a Connector, who has a lot of muscle mass, a lot more predisposition to having more adipose tissue and so on. And they've developed in the womb with a lot of energy going into the digestive system.

Dr Cam: Yes, that's right.

Lisa: Yeah. Can you explain the opposite end of the wheel? So what are these people going to, when is it going to be stressful for them? And how do they cope with stressors?

Dr Cam: Yeah, perfect. So this individual, they have more hormones like prolactin, and they are more likely to be insulin resistant. They have a slightly slower thyroid as well. We know subclinical hypothyroidism is very common for these individuals. These are bodies, which are much more like a sumo wrestler, they are bigger, stronger, the most amount of muscle, the most amount of fat tissue, they can accumulate it, they don't have to. They have the strongest bone structure. And essentially, all of these hormones set up, and these metabolic environment sets up for conservation of energy and to protect other people. Prolactin is actually a very protective hormone, it's I need to protect other people. And they respond very well to connection. And so when you've got a body, so the first body that we spoke about is actually quite selfish, I need to look after myself first.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Cam: Versus this body, the way that it's built psychologically, and behaviourally, due to the hormones and it has in the genes that are playing out, they will be very protective and very nurturing of the people around them. Why are they able to do that? It’s because they have this capacity, they have prolactin and insulin and growth hormone, and IGF 1, all of these hormones actually help you become bigger. For any given circumstance, if this person has more fuel, they will put on more weight as a result of that same amount of fuel. They will conserve better, they will add mass better. And so when you've got this really strong body, very substantial body, you are able to protect others and not be at risk of draining your own energy levels, because you have so much more. And so what happens here is, when this person goes into stress, it's when other people look like they're in stress, the people that they care about them closely. If those people are in stress, their nurturing protective hormones fire up and go up, and they go into a worry state. And then they start worrying about everybody else.

And so, but what's really interesting about this, evolutionarily, this body, when the community experienced stress, their body would go into conservation. Because if everybody was experiencing stress, it means the food supply was about to run short, or we're about to go to war, or about to move camp, and we're not certain about our food supply. So the way that I'm going to manage this is I'm going to gain as much weight as possible, so that when the famine does come, I'm going to be able to support everyone and not have to wait. So it becomes this incredible famine protection.

And so what we see when this person goes into stress, they want the opposite. They conserve energy, they actually go into exhaustion phase, they rest and recover more, they eat more food, which puts them into rest and recovery. They do less exercise, because if they use energy when they're stressed, they think, oh but what is everybody else going to have. And so their body instead of going into hyper-alertness and hyperactivity, and use all of your energy to think this through, this body actually goes into laziness, into cravings of food.

And often the stresses that are created, it's not the temperature, this person is very well-insulated. It's not the nervous system, because this body can really tolerate a lot of physical stress, stress and strain, and mental strain, for that matter. It is disconnection from the family. If they feel disconnected from the people that they’re close, if they see stress in their family, they will feel like the community is threatened. And that will create stress for them. If they're eating very high sugar foods in fact, it represents a stressful result all if my blood sugars are high, then I must be stressed and therefore I need to conserve more. And so the body is able, so that actually creates a stress as well. Doing very, very high intensity exercise in the morning can be a stress for them.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: Because this is when prolactin levels are highest when nurturing is going to be most well executed by this person. I guess you wake up in the morning and you nurture the people around you. If you're out there burning all of this very high intensity energy. It actually sends the stress levels, the cortisol levels higher, which is a coping hormone. Yeah, that's stage two. And then this person—they will actually experience a higher level of cortisol for the next few hours, which then makes them insulin resistant and helps them store weight. It's like, ‘I’m spending all my energy and running around in the morning, then there must be something wrong with my family because I'm not looking after them’.

Lisa: And so he put on weight when they do high intensity.

Dr Cam: And it's so fascinating. We'll notice we have people all the time who do 12 weeks of a boot camp first thing in the morning, exactly what they're told, and they don't lose weight, or they gain a little bit of weight.

Lisa: Yep.

Dr Cam: And so this person gets stressed from that social disconnection, first and foremost. And then they can actually live faster to quite well, they're very, very good at it. But when they do get stressed, instead of going into stage one, and more alertness, they don't have to be alert, because they've got resilience. They go into late stage two, they go on to cope. But they also crave, and they use less energy, and they conserve. And so without late stage two and stage three is where they enter into the stress cycle. It's, they don't go through this big worry of the future. They go more into reflecting on the past and feeling down, and their energy levels come down as well, which is the recovery state.

And this is why they're able to gain and grow. Because in recovery, you grow and you gain. In stress you spend and you wither. But as these guys grow and gain in stress, and that's because they enter the stress stages at a different place.

Lisa: And they so that's why for the slighter build person actually will lose weight when they're under stress and...

Dr Cam: And bone. Osteoporosis is... Exactly, yes.

Lisa: And the heavier person will actually put on weight when they're under stress, because the same stress hormones, but they come in in different stages, and for different reasons in that person's life. And so the person who's of a heavier build and a heavier bone structure, they are going to be craving more of those bad foods when they're in a stressed out site. So they'll be searching out for the, you know, the deep fried. Because from an evolutionary perspective, that's what's happening, isn't it? We’re driven to find those high caloric, high GI foods, which were very scarce back in the day, and unfortunately, they're not so scarce now. And so that becomes a real problem for this group of people.

Dr Cam: Yes.

Lisa: And then let's look at the third one. The mesomorphs. I’m sort of, I'm a little bit of mesomorph, a little bit ectomorph. But more muscular, high intensity people who do well under that. What's happening in their bodies?

Dr Cam: Yeah, cool. So just to give a bit of a summary right now, essentially, what we've got is different bodies in stress will go towards their safe zone. So those leaner, more delicate bodies will go within themselves, they'll try and be alone, so that they can create certainty. Because certainty in their future creates safety for them, and warmth as well. Versus and so they will crave to provide warmth, they'll go for warm foods, and for high sugar foods that supply their nervous system. Versus the Guardian will go towards safety in, the heavier that I am, the safer my community is. Because I'll be able to protect them for longer. And so if I go for these low end, like if I don't do much exercise, and if I eat lots of food, the brain will actually motivate them to do exercise and eat lots of food. That then creates weight, weight creates stability, stability, creates safety for the community.

And so when we go to the activator, the activator is that the pure, the body that's developed predominantly with their muscular skeletal system, their adrenal glands are very, and their sex organs are developed. And so they are higher in adrenaline. And it's very sensitive to testosterone. And this makes them, when they are thinking about their best form, it’s uncertainty, is high adrenaline, which makes them feel good also, a competition, and winning. Variety also creates uncertainty as well.

So this body is searching for variety, uncertainty, competition, a bit of risk in order to feel normal, which is very different to the other bodies as well. And so with the things that create stress for them, is the feeling of being trapped. The feeling of being limited, because they like to break out, they like to be free, they like to be in charge. And they don't like to be told what to do. They don't like rules. So anytime that there's a rule in place, they'll be irritated by that look to break it out. And they have to, they have because I have this big adrenal outflow, they get all of this energy just generate very, very quickly and it must come out. And so the thing that creates stress for them is when that energy can't get out, so why don't have someone that I can express with. Or I can't move my body. Movement is actually the way that they can use a lot of this energy as well, because their musculoskeletal system is all tied into their dominant development.

And so when we're talking about this body in stress, it actually kind of likes a bit of stress, because adrenaline is there. And winning is kind of stressful as well, the thing that's going to create problems for them is that if they can't step into this space, they can't step into competition, they can't step into a bit of risk, they are told exactly what to do. They also have more oxidative stress as well, when they do things. They do things at high intensity. And so the body that gets developed out of this is shorter, more muscular than typical. If you look at the top 10 crossfitters on the planet, particularly in the guys, that's a really good depiction of a shorter, muscular, fiery, short and... Exactly. That body is exactly what we're talking about right here. Love a bit of challenge, love a bit of competition, CrossFit is made for this environment, made for this body.

And so what we need to do for this body is not stop it from experiencing stress, because it actually will move towards that in order to get its adrenaline, we actually need to make sure that it recovers appropriately. And so what happens for this body is like it'll be walking around in their day. And they'll say, ‘Oh, hey, we've got this new thing over here, do you want to do that'? They go, ‘Yes, I'm gonna do that'. And then they're at work, and they got all these new projects. ‘Oh, yes, I'll be part of that. Yes, I'll be part of that'. Because their adrenaline is–

Lisa: It’s starting things.

Dr Cam: …’I’m gonna do this, I love this!’ Exactly. So they go high intensity into action, because they've now got so many things stacked up, and they're happy to drop one thing and then move straight to the next. That means that they never get a break from their adrenaline.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Cam: And so when that happens, they get more oxidative stress, their joints start getting very sore, they get pent up and frustrated, and they can just become quite exhausted. And so they enter into stage two with their stress response. So they don't, they don't think about the stress, they don't think about worry, and what's going to happen in the future, they don't go through that alarm phase, they go straight into fight, like I'm going to cope with this, I'm going to get into a fight, I'm just going to take action. And so immediately, they go from doing nothing to doing everything very, very quickly, very high intensity change.

And so when that happens, they need to expel their energy. And they, the way that they can expel their energy is by verbalising it and just talking it out. And they've got to have someone who doesn't argue back. And I'm at fault with this many times with my partner, she's an activator, and to express and I want to just sit there and listen like I should, but rather I fight back. But this, essentially, these bodies generally, they need to expel energy. It can be verbal, but the best is physical exertion. If they do really high intensity physical exercise, it will make them feel a whole lot better. But it only goes for 20 to 30 minutes, and then they have to stop. Then they have to stop completely and turn their adrenals off. And one way that you can do that is by lying on your back for 15 minutes, which actually turns off the outflow of ACTH, which is your adrenocorticotropic hormone. It's the one that comes from your brainstem. It says, ‘You should release adrenaline'.

And so if you lie flat on your back, it allows this body to fully recover. So this body is going to naturally step into stress, it's actually a timebase, is to be in a bit of stress. But what they miss out on is recovery spending time with fun people, calm people. Spending time light, like just absolutely resting, stopping throughout the day, and just allowing their body to calm down. That's actually what this body needs.

And so when we're talking about managing stress, the first thing we need to do for this body is not make sure that everyone's okay like and make sure their social circles, okay, it's not make sure you've got all the rules and the processes of time alone, while you have for the other couple of bodies. Now for this body, we need to make sure that they exert their energy and then eat regularly. So because what eating does is it puts them into a stage three of recovery. And so if they're eating six meals per day, they're putting themselves into many recovery sessions throughout the day because their body has to digest. And what happens to this body when they don't eat is they get very hangry. This is the hangriest body. And so we have this situation where they're acting frustrated or intolerant. And it's not because they're not a good person. It's because they haven’t eaten. And if they eat, then all of a sudden they feel so much better. And they deal with things in such a different way. The same thing goes after exercise. And so we have very, very different strategies. We've only spoken about three type generals, where there are six and then everybody's individual within that. But these give you the major, major types of variations that you see based on how we develop and how our genes work.

Lisa: Just a quick question on that, and the activator, on the mesomorph ther. In regards to autophagy, because we—I think we briefly talked on this last week, but I did a whole session on autophagy with Dr Seranova. And, you know, intermittent fasting is a big thing. But how do we—how does an activator do it then? If they want to get the benefits of autophagy, but they can't go without food for long periods of time when they need six meals a day, which is the opposite of what you would advise for someone on the endomorph side of the wheel?

Dr Cam: Yeah.

Lisa: How are we getting—do autophagy going without causing the hangries? And without...

Dr Cam: Yeah, great question. So the first thing and I guess you can apply this question to all of the groups, like the longest, leanest group are going to do the least well with lots of fasting because they've got a metabolism that just needs lots of fuel to stay up and about. And if you make them fast, for too long, they actually get very, very tired, which is a little bit destructive. The, but short fasts, no problem, you know, like a meal or a day.

But generally, it's still providing some carbohydrates is going to be important throughout their day. But they can get away with it. But it's just going to be for a shorter period of time. The more substantial body can deal with fasting for extended periods of time. And so their body is actually set up to benefit significantly from fasting. Yeah, the third version that we've spoken about the high intensity, high oxidative stress type individual, if they are going to be engaging in using lower food intake or fasting to stimulate autophagy, then they want to be reducing their activity at the same time. And they want to be practising some really calming activities, because they need to make sure that they can dispel the energy or not dispel the energy through like a calm activity, as opposed to relying on the high intensity activity or not be stressed in the first place.

So they need to get themselves into a very calm place, environment, with less competition with less things that they can say yes to, with things that allow them to essentially not use their adrenaline energy to jump into things. They need to kind of create a fairly blank environment so that they don't get stimulated by things so that they don't have this requirement for extra energy. So that's essentially we just need to consider the other components to it.

Lisa: Yeah, that really sort of puts it into picture because you want the autophagy you want the cleaning out of the broken proteins and the stuff that you know, that makes us live longer when we do that on a regular basis. And you know, stopping in tour and upregulating your ANPK and all of that sort of stuff. But I was still a bit of a mystery in my head. But how do I do that when I'm an activator, activator Crusader, I'm on that cusp. So for you know, I get it that people on the Guardian side, they can go without. But for me, you know, that's always been. So if I'm going to do a fast, I need to make sure that I'm in a really non-stressed out situation and calm, which doesn't happen very often. Let's move now just briefly, we will wrap it up shortly. But immunity, we're in, in relation to all of this stress responses and so on. What's happening on a biochemistry level when, when we're under the stress in, right now with COVID. And all the other winter coming down here in the Southern Hemisphere, we don't want to get sick, we want to make sure our immune system’s on fire. What can we do to improve our immune system in regards to these different body types?

Dr cam: Yeah, perfect. So, and the most important thing here is in order for our immune system to come on, then we have to get into stage three and homeostasis. That may—the stages that we need to be in in order to stimulate our immune system. And so what that means, we have to put ourselves into recovery. And so one of the most profound things that we can do straightaway where all of, most of our recovery happens from the day, our mental recovery and our physical recovery is sleep. We need to make sure that we get enough sleep. There are different things that create sleep for different people. But seven to nine hours is recommended for everybody. And it's very, very important that we get that sleep to stop it. So that's the first piece.

The second piece then is every part of our environment is creating stress. And so we need to make sure that we understand what's happening in the environment and how that's going to affect different people so that we can recover from that stress appropriately. And so if we were to go to the three groups once again, and I'll just preface this by saying that every single person's journey to an improved immune system is actually fully personalised. And it needs to be tailored specifically to you. And this is something obviously—that we work with you on Lisa with ph360, we got personalised immune protocols that actually allow you to do that and get all of this stuff that I'm about to address in principle, but for you specifically.

So we have—if we were talking about the donor, reverse, or from last time, we talked about the activator, and the activator connectors versus a bit of Crusader in there too, that top left of the circle. Essentially, we're going to be looking at what are the things that remind—bring safety to this body movement will support that. So if we do exercise, a high intensity exercise for this individual, and then we have full recovery, what we know from one bout of exercise, you can get increased immunosurveillance, that is your immune system is now more alert to the environment, rather than waiting for bacteria and virus and ready to pounce on them stronger.

We also know that if you're exercising regularly for eight to 12 weeks, you will see less chance of getting an infection, less chance or lower amounts of severity and lower amounts of time sick. So just being physically fitter, has a profound effect on that. However, if you're a Guardian or a Diplomat, and you're doing high intensity exercise in the morning, it actually adds to your stress load. Yeah, so but if you do it in the afternoon, then that's going to really improve your immune function and your recovery throughout the night. So exercise is a stress, it is a particularly potent way of enhancing your immune system. And the same goes to sleep as well. Sleep, just one poor night's sleep can ruin 70% of your immune response. And so having enough sleep, really important. Making sure that you're moving in a way that's appropriate for your body at the right time, very important.

And it's even more important for the activators. Because they're their body is so requiring the release of that pent up stress. Then when we start talking about, if we start talking about guardians, then just to talk about a couple of different sort of topics, the Guardians and the diplomats or even the Guardian, specifically here, they need a really connected social environment. And if they're experiencing a lot of stress socially, like they're isolated from their family, they disconnected from the people that they really believe are very close. Or if there's a lot of infighting and arguments and all that sort of stuff in the family home while they're in lockdown, for example, yeah, that social stress is going to create a whole lot of stress for this individual, put them into cope and then downregulate their immune system.

And you'll know this as well is that if you're in a, you know, stressful work, relationship or social relationship, you don't feel at your best and your immune system is actually being decreased with time. But it's even more for the guardians and the connectors key. And we have, you know, that the senses and the Crusaders, they're very neural in the way that they stress. And so body type. Yeah, exactly the lot of bodies often more delicate. And so some movement is going to be great. But ultimately, sleep is going to be important. Social is not going to be as important for this individual, what's going to be really important is that they can actually calm their nervous system to bring them out of stage one stress, if they're doing meditation regularly, if they're going for slow jobs, either have an evening or have a morning, or they're doing stretches and yoga, that actually calms the nervous system very well, which then takes them out of stress one at stage one and stage two, which allows their immune system to come back on. And so we have these different priorities. We've got, you know, movement for the more mesomorphic bodies, we've got social connectedness, movements also going to be very important here too, as is food.

And then we have the neural calmness and environmental calmness of warmth is going to be very important, but then we get into food, food, you know, it has all of these incredible little compounds that specifically drive your immune system to pick up or push down or to be able to, melylike, you need enough protein to build your immune system. Generally, you need, you need your you know, the right fats to control inflammation, you need the antioxidants to help reduce some of the damage that's going on when we're finding all of these bugs from the oxidative stress. And so activators are going to need lots and lots of antioxidants for that reason because they experienced more oxidative stress.

Guardians are going to be better served to do some fasting and the fasting will really support them in bringing their blood sugar levels down, helping them go into recovery, really supporting their digestive system, controlling their blood pressure in many cases as well versus—and so, versus the the sensors and Crusaders are going to actually need a bit of carbohydrate. I’m going because the carbohydrates provide mental calm for them. Because if they don't have carbohydrates, their brain can go into a stress state to provide fuel breaking down protein turning into carbohydrates, with lots of cortisol. And so the compounds that you need specifically are individual. But we have these general principles that govern what different people need. And this is why, if you know, you say ‘I'm going to improve our immune system through this generic program, right here’, there's a very good chance, it's not going to be appropriate for you. And so you really need to understand what your body needs so that you can get the best benefit.

And most people will benefit from low calorie intake for a few days, at least, you know, activators, any five days of no protein, no fats, fats versus guardians will actually do very well on broth only, fluids only, non-caloric fluids only for 10 days. Whereas the diplomat will need 10 days of just fruits and vegetables, but very little protein, very little fat as well. So there's a different protocol for different individuals. But the lower calorie really helps to reset the immune system in many ways. And there's been some lovely research by Professor Longo on that stuff around fasting and how it stimulates stem cell production of your immune cells.

So if you're taking care of the whole body, you're understanding, you know, what kind of environment you need to be, what kind of movement is going to be appropriate, what kind of social environment is essential, then you put the right types of foods in as well, you're going to see a whole system wide increase in your immune system. And then the studies that we ran last year, we looked at very detailed immune markers. And we saw significant change applying the protocols that are found in pH 360. We show significant change in the immune aggressivity and readiness in 10 days. So you can really change these markers very, very quickly. And really, the only thing that we have is a strong immune system. That's that's the thing. That's what vaccines lean on as well. Yeah. It leans on your ability as a non response. Yeah. And this is why vaccines are effective as effective in some individuals with suppressed immunity. So we definitely, we need a strong immune system, irrespective of what path you take with this.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. And that's just so important right now, and to understand the nuance between the different types of detoxes, and the different types of ways of dealing with the different body types is just so, so crucial. And autophagy and cleaning out, and it's like taking out the garbage regularly. I can put in all my antioxidants and all my good vitamins and all my good nutrients. But if I'm not taking the garbage out on a regular basis, and doing that appropriately for my body type, and then you know, you're going to have suboptimal performance and suboptimal immune system. And yes, so stress, resilience, immunity, huge pieces of this giant puzzle that we're all trying to put together. And we're very complex. It's not, it's not easy, it's not easy. But giving this framework to the whole thing with the different body types. I've never seen this in any other system that that I have learned and or researched or read about where it's actually personalised, you know.

And that's why I think it's so powerful, because you can read a book on fasting and go, Well, I'm going to do that. But you need to know how to do it best for your body. And that's, you know, and how to detox for your body, and how to do all this. Dr Cam you’ve been brilliant today, again, as usual, a mine of information, and just brilliance. So thank you very much for jumping on again, I really appreciate your time, and the work that you do. And if anybody wants help with understanding what health type you have understanding this specifically to you, then that's what we do, please reach out to us. I'll have all the links in the show notes. But just head on over to lisatamati.com, hit the ‘Work With Us’ button, you'll see our peak epigenetics program. And this is the sort of people that we're working with Dr Cam, the CEO of ph 360, in Australia, and he's one of our great teachers. And this program is really, really beneficial for people who are wanting to optimise the genes, not just for stress and immunity and resilience, but also an optimal performance in every area of your life.

So thanks very much, Dr Cam, anything to add today before we hop off?

Dr Cam: Yeah, I will say one thing and that is your body is always on your side. Som and the thing that we think is that our body is fighting us or not cooperating with us or essentially our response to stress, whatever we think in our brain doesn't really matter what's going on in our body. And the information we take from that is very, very Very important. So when your body is genuinely tired, it's saying, ‘Hey, I don't have quite as much energy as what this activity requires, I need rest’, it's actually speaking to you and saying, ‘I need rest’, I'm saying, ‘Oh, my body sucks, I'm going to get better at not being tired’. Yeah, and I'm just going to have more coffee'. Your body is not deficient in caffeine, it's, it's actually deficient in the appropriate recovery for it.

And the biggest realisation that I had is that your body is always trying to do the best for you. And if you start listening, you'll find that that stress-recovery cycle is far easier to manage. And we didn't even get into resilience, which I'd love to talk about another time. Yeah, know how—when you're in that state of that balance between stress and recovery, you are able to mount an attack on anything that you want, from a very, very strong place. And so the—know that your body is always, always on your side, start listening to it more. Because you'll start getting keys into when you need rest, when you can push. There's a bunch of things that you can do around that. But I just want to really get you to start listening a lot more, because that's where this can, this can all start.

Lisa: And I think you know, especially for some of the audience, who are athletes and hard charges, and people that you know, go go go, it's all very well and good. But just remember, you still made of flesh and blood. And you need to respect the biology. And there are times when we can push outside the norms and do crazy things and amazing things. But then afterwards, you need to go into that recovery phase, and you're not bulletproof like you think you are. And there was one a good analogy, you know. Your body will give you a little tap on the head saying, ‘Hey, I need a raise, or I need something from you, and if you ignore it', then it will be a real hit on the shoulder, ‘Hey, I need a rest'. And next time it will be a mech truck that comes in flattened shoe. And it will be something major. And we don't want that. So listen to the little tests. Before you have to get a mech track to put you on your back.

Dr Cam: Absolutely. Just being a little bit fatigued after two hours of work is a little whisper in your ear. It's Yeah, very, very good to listen at that point. Absolutely.

Lisa: Yeah. And I'm going to do that just now go and go out for a walk in nature for 15 minutes and digest this wonderful information that you've given us today. So thank you, Dr Cam, really appreciate it.

Dr Cam: Thanks for having me on. It's great to be able to talk about this stuff.

Lisa: Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Dr Cam McDonald. He really is a mine of information. He is brilliant at the way he brings things across. He does it far better than I ever could. So I hope you enjoyed that session. If you're interested in doing the epigenetics program, we will discuss everything and learn everything about your specific set of genes and how they can be optimised through the right lifestyle interventions, the right diet, the right exercise, and everything that we've just talked about in this interview, then please head on over to lisatamati.com. Hit the ‘Work With Us button and you'll see our Peak Epigenetics program. Go over there, check it out. If you've got any questions, please reach out to our support@lisatamati.com. Happy to jump on a call with you want me, or one of my colleagues can jump on a call, explain more about what it's all about and how it all works. So make sure you do that.

And thanks very much for listening again, we really do appreciate your time and attention. We don't take it for granted. And we love you. Thank you very much for all the help you've given this podcast.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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As the powerhouse of the cell, mitochondria are associated with producing energy. However, studies regarding the function of mitochondria suggest that it does way more than powering the cell.

In this episode, Dr Elizabeth Yurth discusses the function of the mitochondria in our overall health. For instance, it signals the nucleus to repair the damage done by oxidative stress. Furthermore, the role of mitochondria is also to facilitate improvement in metabolism. Dr Elizabeth also explains how increasing butyrate levels in your gut microbiome is beneficial. This stimulates your mitochondria to release PGC-1α and NPK. As a result, it will have a greater capacity to eliminate waste and harmful substances in the cell. Additionally, we discuss fat tissue, blood sugar levels and metabolism.

If you want to know more about the function of mitochondria and how it informs your overall health, this episode is for you. Listening to this podcast will also help you understand your digestive health.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand that the function of mitochondria is not only to produce energy but also to enhance cell growth and healing. 2. Learn about the effect of butyrate and antibiotics on the mitochondria, as well as the diet and activities to boost mitochondrial performance. 3. Find out more about the function of the mitochondria in regulating stress, blood glucose and ageing.

Resources * Gain exclusive access and bonuses to Pushing the Limit Podcast by becoming a patron! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-ageing and longevity with NMN Bio. * Listen to my other Pushing the Limits Episodes: * + #183: Sirtuins and NAD Supplements for Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova + #187: How to Slow Down Ageing and Promote Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth + #189: Understanding Autophagy and Increasing Your Longevity with Dr Elena Seranova * Connect with Dr Elizabet Yurth: Instagram * Boulder Longevity Institute — Learn more about research-based longevity medicine developed by Dr Elizabeth Yurth. * Sign up at the Human Optimization Academy to access resources on taking control of your health! * Mitozen’s Pro ByoMax™ – Probiotic / Butyrate Suppository * If you are interested in getting Spermidine as mentioned in this podcast, Lisa now has it available In New Zealand.
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Episode Highlights [06:33] What Is the Mitochondria? * The mitochondria are bacteria classified as anaerobic organisms. * Humans have a symbiotic relationship with the mitochondria. With their help, we can survive outside water and air. * Mitochondria also have their own genome. You inherit them from your mother. * The communication between the nucleus and the mitochondria is imperative to our health.

[11:00] The Function of Mitochondria * In theories of ageing, mitochondria produce free radicals damageing our DNA. * The mitochondria release mitochondrial peptides when activated by oxidative stress. * These mitochondrial peptides are messages sent to the nucleus to signal it to heal your body. * When the mitochondria are stressed, it also activates the unfolded protein response (UPR). The UPR either gets rid of bad protein through autophagy or fixes them. * Tune in for more details about how the mitochondria initiate growth and healing.

[17:05] Damage in the Cells * The body tries to get rid of dysfunctional proteins. * You need to be careful of the amount of antioxidants you take. Taking too much may inhibit your body's response to bad proteins. * You should take your body through a cycle. * You go through an autophagy phase where you clear out the bad cells. * Then, you go through the growth phase, where you induce more toxic stress. In doing so, you can initiate growth and healing.

[19:32] Mitochondria Permeability Transition Pore (MPTP) * This pore is a gate that opens and closes the mitochondria. * As you grow old or when you are in worse health, it stays open longer. Then, it allows bad stuff to go in and out more often. * Melatonin keeps the pores closed most of the time. * Spermidine also induces mitochondrial biogenesis by restoring this pore structure. * Antibiotics like minocycline may have some very significant benefits to your cell health.

[23:14] The Effects of Butyrate on the Gut Microbiome * Your microbiome is most affected by butyrate. * To consume antibiotics and probiotics, you first have to keep butyrate in your microbiome. * Higher levels of butyrate may also help the cell, specifically the mitochondria. It improves aerobic metabolism. * High butyrate also regulates your PGC-1α gene to improve your aerobic endurance. * Sick people usually replenish butyrate by doing rectal suppositories. To know more about the full effects of butyrate, listen to the full episode.

[32:33] Relationship Between the Function of Mitochondria and Gut Microbiome * Butyrate increased the PGC-1α and NPK in the mitochondrial level. * As a result, your oxidative capacity is restored, and the mitochondria become healthier. * After inducing autophagy and getting rid of the bad stuff, Dr Yurth restricts the food consumption of her patients. Then, she will use spermidine at a higher dose. * At this stage, the mitochondrial peptides released will induce the nucleus to have a healthier genome.

[36:57] The Effects of Melatonin * Melatonin also affects the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (MPTP). * Interleukin-1 beta (IL1β) causes damage to mitochondria. High dose melatonin blocks IL1β. * Melatonin also creates a homeostatic reaction in the mitochondria. It’s therefore anti-cancer. * High dose melatonin also restores your circadian rhythm. When you should take it depends on your genes. * 20 mg is a high dose of melatonin. This dosage is for people with cancer.

[42:18] The Importance of Mitochondrial Peptides * Mitochondrial peptides like the SS-31 helps the endoplasmic reticulum to be healthy. * Exercise helps induce mitochondrial peptides. * MOTS-c as a drug is an alternative for people who can’t exercise. * You can also produce MOTS-c when you exercise. * MOTS-c helps with glucose metabolism, fat loss, turning white fat to brown fat, and overall metabolism.

[44:44] Why Brown Adipose Tissue Is Metabolically Active * When babies are born, they need something to keep them warm. Brown adipose tissue is functional for heat production and burns calories. * White fatty tissues are more common as you get older. It only coats your organs and provides little benefits. * Butyrate can convert white fat to brown fat, which can help you boost your metabolism. * Fat is also metabolically active. Men who are fatter convert their testosterone into estrogen. * Dr Yurth emphasises that a good diet and quality exercise is worthless without looking at hormones. Listen more to learn about how hormones affect your metabolism.

[54:20] Regulating Blood Sugar * As your blood glucose rises, you will feel temporary stress which is good for you. However, long-term high levels of glucose in your blood are damageing. * Dr Yurth mentioned the benefits of continuous glucose monitoring (CGM). * Go for a walk after a meal to regulate spikes in your sugar levels. * Chromium and cinnamon help maintain blood glucose. However, the positive effects rely on genetics. * A recent study revealed that eating protein before carbohydrates shows a lower blood glucose and insulin level.

[1:00:36] Enzymes and Breaking Down Proteins * Evidence shows that the dysfunction of the metabolic process starts in bile acids. * In treating neuromuscular weakness or building muscle, you should focus on your digestive enzymes. Integrate mass proteases and lipases into your meals. * Dr Yurth reiterates the importance of keeping your gut microbiome healthy through consuming butyrate. * Good bacteria such as probiotics, which are anaerobes, will not survive the colon site. * If you don’t have a healthy gut lining, your immune system will see probiotics as foreign materials. This can cause a histamine response.

7 Powerful Quotes from the Episode ‘I'm gonna make the case that actually every single disease, from cancer, to cardiovascular disease, everything related to ageing, osteoporosis, everything comes down to mitochondrial dysfunction.’

‘I’m just a big advocate with diet, and with exercise, with everything, everything's done cyclically. Because we want to go through phases all the time where we're getting rid of bad stuff and then regrowing.’

‘We’re able to use the butyrate for fatty acid oxidation and actually improve aerobic metabolism.’

’As you're learning, the gut is everything. And now we're learning it may even be imperative to the mitochondria.’

‘I think what it's going to come down to when we look at this mitochondria, it's not going to be trying to figure out what is my perfect dose of antioxidants. It's gonna be figuring out how do I get that mitochondria with the pores, letting the good stuff in and letting the bad stuff out?’

‘What it's really trying to get across is just, you know, sensible stuff, we just did a thing you know, about just taking a walk after dinner, right?’

‘That little bit of stress, like I said, what you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.’

About Dr Elizabeth Yurth Elizabeth Yurth, MD, is the Medical Director and co-founder of the Boulder Longevity Institute. This institute was established in 2006. Dr Yurth is double board-certified in Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation and Anti-Ageing/Regenerative Medicine.

She also has a Stanford-affiliated Fellowship in Sports and Spine Medicine. Here, Dr Yurth specialises in Sports, Spine, and Regenerative Medicine. Additionally, she also has a dual-Fellowship in Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine (FAARM) and Anti-Aging, Regenerative and Functional Medicine (FAARFM) through the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M).

Dr Yurth serves as a faculty member in SSRP (Seeds Scientific Research and Performance) with 25 mastermind physician fellows. Here, she allows herself to stay abreast and teach others in the emerging field of cellular medicine.

An active athlete herself, Dr Yurth has worked with numerous sports teams at both the collegiate and professional levels. At present, she works as a consultant for high-level athletes from across the country. She aims to aid them in recovery and optimise performance.

Dr Yurth resides in Boulder, Colorado, with her husband and five children.

To know more about Dr Yurth’s work, visit Boulder Longevity Institute and connect with her on Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about mitochondrial health and include butyrate in their diets.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Lisa Tamati your host here at Pushing The Limits. Super excited that you're here with me again today. Thanks for tuning in. I do love and appreciate your loyalty. And I would love to hear from you. If you've got something to say about the podcast, you’ve got some comments and questions about some of the topics that we have raised, please do reach out to us. We love hearing from our listeners. And if you can give us a rating and review if you're enjoying the content, that really really helps the show.

We've also got our Patron VIP premium membership now open. If you love our show, if you love what we do, what we stand for our values, our principles, the work that we put into this podcast, which we've been doing now for five and a half years, without any money or any—just for the love of it and for the passion of it. If you want to help support us and keep us going and want to get a whole lot of premium membership benefits, then head over to patron.lisatamati.com. I would love you to join our VIP tribe. That's patron.lisatamati.com. For the price of about a coffee a day or a little bit more, you can be involved. There's two tiers in there, with different levels of premium member benefits. And we would love you to join us there. So if you can please do.

Now today's superstar is Dr Elizabeth Yurth. And if you follow the podcast, you might have remember that name because she was on just a few weeks ago. And she is now one of my favorite teachers. I have been learning from her at the Bone Longevity Institute of Human Optimization Academy. And she is a brilliant teacher, and a brilliant orthopaedic surgeon and longevity expert. And she offers the world's most advanced research-based health care. And it's all customised to you. And the information that we're going to share with you today—today's topic if you like, is all around mitochondrial health. Now we do deviate a little bit because as we do in these conversations, we go off on a few tangents. But it is really all about understanding what your mitochondria are, why you need to know about it, how to keep them healthy, because these little bacteria if you like, and these little powerhouses of our cells are absolutely crucial to health and longevity.

And Dr Yurth says that the mitochondria, she thinks, are at the very basis of all diseases. So when these little guys go awry, that's when diseases come into play. And everything from cancer, chronic fatigue, to all of the diseases right across the spectrum can be affected by mitochondrial health. So we do a bit of a deep dive into that today. So I hope you enjoy this session with Dr Elizabeth Yurth. She's a lady who walks the talk. She's an incredibly amazing person, athlete, orthopaedic surgeon. She loves this. She breathes it the way she loves, as you know, in complete alignment with what she also teaches, so make sure you check out all her links in the show notes. Right.

Now before we go over to the show. Just want to also let you know about our NMN, our supplements. They’re longevity and anti-ageing supplement. We are into longevity. We are into health span. We are into increasing our lifespan and healthspan. So if you want to get into having—to boosting your NAD levels in your body, we've recently done a couple of episodes with Dr Elena Seranova on this topic, then head over to nmnbio.nz. And grab your NMN supplements over there to get your longevity regime underway.

And in today's podcast, we talk a little bit about this. We talk also about spermidine, which we've also mentioned in other podcasts. There are some amazing compounds out there that are going to help us stay healthier and longer. And there's a lot of techniques and things that we can actually engage in. We don't have to be passive bystanders to our ageing, we can do things about it, we can slow it down, and even reverse it in some places. So I hope you enjoy this episode. So do check out my Longevity Supplement over at nmnbio.nz. And enjoy today's show with Dr Elizabeth Yurth.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Super excited to have another wonderful guest that we've actually had on before and back by popular demand. That was a very, very popular episode. So I have Dr Elizabeth Yurth with me. Hi, Dr Yurth, how are you doing?

Dr Elizabeth Yurth: Lisa, thank you for having me again. I love being with you.

Lisa: Oh, it's just that, our last episode was just so full of information that I've had it on repeat going, for me, because there's so much in there and so many people have written and have been asking questions. So I want to get started by saying if after this interview, you want to talk to Dr Yurth and one of her team at the Border Longevity Institute, you can do that even when you're in New Zealand or Australia, you can do teleconsults. And yeah, so if you are facing some difficult health problem, and you really want some help, make sure you do that. And we'll have all the links in the show notes and so on. And before we get underway, there is a Bold Longevity of—what is it called, optimisation?

Dr Yurth: Human Optimization Academy, right? Yeah, from the Border Longevity site, or just go to bliacademy.com and sign up. But you guys have definitely signed up for that we actually are trying to really put together tons—and all the information you guys need to try. And you'll have one place where you can go get all of these things that we talked about, and all the things that Lisa talks about, and really be able to learn about them. Because as we know, doctors don't really learn this stuff very well. So you guys have to do it yourself. And so we're trying to give you a place to do. It's coming from a very experienced...

Lisa: Yeah, and if you want on the latest, so make sure bli.academy.com. And I'll put that in the show notes too guys, so you can find it.

Now today's subject is mitochondria, one of Dr Yurth’s favorite subjects. Okay, for starters, what is a mitochondria?

Dr Yurth: What's really so cool about mitochondria, right, is they're actually they were actually their own little bacteria. So they invaded us back when we were threatened to kind of moving from an anaerobic to an aerobic environment. So when we went from sort of anaerobic organisms to actually living in air, we couldn't do it. And so these little bacteria got into the cells, and they formed a symbiotic relationship, so that we could survive outside of water and air. And so they were responsible for us being able to move out of the ocean and into an air or an aerobic environment. Well, they're actually their own little organism. Right? I mean, that that is weird, right? That we have this essential part of our cell. Now our essential part of survival is actually its own organism.

And it was a one celled organism, it gone to formed a symbiotic relationship, it allowed the bacteria to survive living inside ourselves. And if we allowed ourselves to survive, so amazing. And that's why they're so unique is that they actually contain a whole genome that is separate from your nuclear genome, right? So they have a mitochondrial genome that's completely different. And it's only inherited from your mother. So that mitochondrial genome is not inherited from your father at all. It's probably one of the reasons your mother's health at the time, because even though the mitochondria has its own genome, that genome is impacted by things you do. So if I have a baby, and I'm super unhealthy, I've altered that mitochondrial genome. And then I've transferred that mitochondrial genome only from me—the dad was great and doing everything right—to my children. So that's one of the...

Lisa: So that’s the epigenetic…. Because I'm just about to go through IVF, as I said before, very interesting for me. So even though I'm going to have an egg donor...

Dr Yurth: You wanna make sure she’s healthy, right?

Lisa: Yeah, she's just—she is, and we've got her on everything. Her DNA is coming into the egg, but actually, my mitochondria will be a part of this baby, if we have one.

Dr Yurth: So you will alter—so basically, she's, you're going to be, the baby will have her mitochondrial DNA. But because you will be growing this baby, you will be altering that mitochondrial DNA by epigenetic influences that you're doing, right. So now you're going to be changing some of that DNA structure, or the genome of that mitochondria by things you're doing. The mitochondria, so even though it's coming in, and again, you want her to come in with this great mitochondrial DNA in the first place. Right? So we want this good genome in the first place, which is why you do want her to be healthy and fit and all those things. And younger.

But then you know all about the epigenetics, and so you're going to be potentially altering some of that, too. So that's one of the really amazing things. Now, what we used to think is, all the mitochondria did was do oxidative phosphorylation, and make energy, make ATP. And that's what they did. They were our energy powerhouse. That's all we ever learned, right? High school was like, ‘Oh, the powerhouse of the cell’.

So we now know, they do a whole lot more than that. So they're not just responsible for aerobic metabolism, and making ATP. So they're not just energy production. And in fact, there's the communication back and forth between the nucleus of ourselves and these mitochondrial DNA that's imperative to health. Well, I'm gonna make the case that actually every single disease, from cancer, to cardiovascular disease, everything related to ageing, osteoporosis, everything comes down to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Lisa: Wow. So this is pretty–

Dr Yurth: It's imperative and, and you're gonna start reading more about this, is that the key to fixing our health is going to be fixing the mitochondria. And we've already figured out like, you know, you I know you're big into NAD that, improving NAD and I know you have a product that does that. And that is— that's critical, right? To mitochondrial health. We know that's critical to mitochondrial health. But there's more to that story. And the big thing is that is that piece of communication, that mitochondria sends messages out to the nucleus, and the nucleus sends messages back to the mitochondria.

Lisa: Okay, so what are these messages that they’re sending backwards and forwards? And why does this have to do with the function of the mitochondria itself?

Dr Yurth: Well, there's, as the body goes through the oxidative phosphorylation pathway, that Krebs cycle, that cycle that makes energy, right. And we know that we create these free radicals. And that's been one of the big theories of ageing is this free radical theory of ageing, that mitochondria produce all these free radicals, as free radicals overwhelm the body, they damage cells, and we get damaged tore into our DNA? Hmm.

Lisa: So we all thought that antioxidants would be the answer, recommended…

Dr Yurth: Right. We just take a bunch of antioxidants into the mix, and you're going to be great, because now, all those free radicals, you're not going to have any damage. The problem is that we know that there's been this—the mitochondria has a very, has a way to handle this oxidative stress. So there's a few things that happen. Obviously, stress is really critical to the mitochondria’s health. So as it creates these free radicals, and and it's rust by things, it actually produces what are called mitochondrial peptides. So it has its own genome, right, that's now been activated by this stress. And it creates these—its own peptides that no other structure in your body can produce. So it's producing these little chains of amino acids.

And there's quite a few being developed now or that or that we were learning about, but the sort of the three main ones that we kind of have a pretty good knowledge about right now are something called MOTS-c. There's another one called humanin, and another one called SS-31. And those are what—the SS-31s, and a group of them are called small humanin-like peptides or SHLPs. Those peptides, so once the mitochondria is stressed, it encodes this DNA to say, ‘Oh, you need to go out there and tell the nucleus to do some good stuff’.

So these mitochondrial peptides now go outside of the mitochondria, and they tell the nucleus to to heal things and get stronger and do better. And then that sends messages back to the mitochondria. So that stress, that oxidative stress actually, it's just like, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Lisa: And actually it’s a fact on this.

Dr Yurth: It’s really a fact that mitochondria health, that these medical peptides are imperative to health. In fact, humanin which were first developed actually was looking like a cure for Alzheimer's. And it may be really—well, it may be actually very, very baffling here, but very, very helpful in dementias and a lot of other diseases. We know that higher levels of humanin, people who live to be a hundred and above have much higher levels of humanin, so we know that these mitochondrial peptides, the higher they are, the healthier you are. No mitochondrial stress. If I just impound my body with antioxidants all the time, then I'm actually probably doing some damage. So cancer, right, so where—now again there, I can also overwhelm, right?

There's also another response, the mitochondria have, it's called the UPR, unfolded protein response. So as the mitochondria are stressed, and these damaged proteins that are produced when we're under stress, right, we get damaged or proteins, that's where we're kind of linking that to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and some of the plaques that form...

Lisa: The tau proteins and things.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, yep. When the mitochondria is stressed, it actually sends messages out to the nucleus to activate what's called the UPR, the unfolded protein response. A little protein response actually takes these bad proteins and it strings them back out and makes them normal. Or it says, ‘These guys are so damaged. Let's just get rid of that mitochondria and initiate basically autophagy or mitophagy, eliminates the bad mitochondria that are too damaged. There's too many damaged proteins. We've overwhelmed the unfolded protein response’. Now it initiates this response to kill off the bad mitochondria.

See, if I'm just now taking a ton of antioxidants. Maybe I've blocked this response to get rid of all these bad proteins. Right. And I'm actually inducing more of these bad, abnormal proteins that are going to cause damage.

Lisa: I've talked on a couple of episodes with Dr Elena Seranova about—who is a molecular biologist on autophagy. And I think we talked about it too last time. So that's getting rid of the damaged proteins in the cells or in the mitochondria itself, getting rid of it. And we talked about fasting last time and how critical fasting is for autophagy in getting rid of these bad proteins and clearing things out.

So if we—so you're saying we can overwhelm this protein, and what do you call unfolding...

Dr Yurth: Unfolded protein response, UPR.

Lisa: Yeah, we can overwhelm it with too many antioxidants and actually stop it...

Dr Yurth: Stop the UPR from being activated. So now we don't actually kill it, we don't actually—either fix the damaged protein or get rid of the cells that are too damaged.

Lisa: Wow, okay. And so in this is this two-way communication between the mitochondria and the DNA, this is the nucleus of the cell. This is all within the—if we picture a big, nice fat round cell, and inside, you've got thousands of mitochondria per cell. And you've got the actual nucleus, which has that nice double helix, you see in the graph–

Dr Yurth: Where all the DNA is.

Lisa: –where the DNA, your code for life is–

Dr Yurth: Right.

Lisa: And these are talking backwards and forwards to each other to keep the health of the cell good. And then when we do autophagy, or mitophagy, we're getting rid of the damaged parts of the proteins that have been damaged through—is this through, so the damage that occurs in the cells is happening because of DNA breaks? And what are toxins and things like that, right?

Dr Yurth: Exactly, these reactive oxygen species that you know, they're starting to damage the DNA too much inside the mitochondria and creating abnormal proteins. Right? So now we've created these dysfunctional proteins that are going to do damage, so the body tries to get rid of them. And it's not, I'm not gonna say there's no place for antioxidants, right? But what you have to be careful of, is sort of cycling through phases where you're off of your antioxidants, and maybe inducing more autophagy, right. So we now want a little more oxidative stress to induce this healing response to give the cell some stress, and then maybe going on antioxidants for a little while to make sure that we don't ever have too many.

Lisa: Yeah, if you've gotten a lot of antioxidants, or sorry, or oxidative stress, because maybe you're exercising a heck of a lot or you've had an infection, or you've got something other high stress...

Dr Yurth: You eat like crap, or you're fat or… Then you might need extra antioxidants. And just to support the baseline of your functional health. But even those people, right, need them off and on, they should not be constantly. They should do phases, right? They should cycle it. I'm just a big advocate with diet, with exercise with everything, everything's done so quickly. Because we want to go through phases all the time, where we're getting rid of bad stuff, and then regrowing and getting rid of bad stuff and regrowing. Right?

It’s just like cleaning your house. You got to get rid of all the crap, but then you're gonna…

Lisa: Bring the new groceries.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, right. It's get cluttered again. And then you got to go clean it all out again, and things get cluttered again. Yeah, I mean, that's the world's clutter wouldn't happen, but it does, right. Even the most pristine non hoarder person, there's still clutter that happens, and you still have to do your spring clean outs.

And that's—so I like to think about the body in the same way, you know, going into the spring clean outs where you go through a big autophagy phase where you're fasting, we're using hydro spermidine, where you're using things that will help to really clear out all the bad cells, all these damage, mitochondria that are producing too many reactive oxygen species, right? And then going through growth phases, where where I'm now maybe I'm inducing a little bit more toxic stress, I'm exercising harder, I'm lifting more weights, I'm running more, right, I'm inducing more oxidative stress. Maybe I'm eating more calories during that time. Now there's more oxidative stress cells a little bit stressed that actually initiate some growth and some healing. Right. And then I can do the same thing over and over again.

But there's really interesting new research leads when you kind of look at ‘Okay, well, how does this all make sense’? So it's probably going to come down more to this. This is what's called the MPTP or mitochondrial permeability transition pore. And what they've now found is that that's probably where we need to focus is this little pore is letting stuff in back and forth through the mitochondria. So the right amount of things get through. So we know this little pore opens and closes. As we're in worse health, or older, it stays open longer, allowing more bad things to go In and out. So it's designed to open periodically, closed periodically. So for brief periods.

So what a lot of focus now is on anti-ageing. And mitochondrial health is focusing a little bit on this mitochondrial transition pore. In fact, there's a really cool study just came out where they're actually taking out these mitochondria and actually changing the pore structure for treating cancer. So they can actually make the pores in these cancer cells more permeable, so they can get drugs with a little nanobot that's poking holes in the mitochondria.

But on our home base, is what we really would rather do is keep these little mitochondrial transition pores closed most of the time, let them open periodically. So there's some interesting things that do that, melatonin does that? Oh, so higher dose melatonin seems to work primarily on this pore to actually regulate keeping it closed more often. So it’s spermidine, that's one way spermidine induces cellular or mitochondrial biogenesis is by restoring this pore structure.

Lisa: And we're big into augmenting spermidine. I've just got my first shipment, I'm working on getting that down here guys.

Dr Yurth: Spermidine is kind of amazing. Because it really is so good for mitophagy, getting rid of bad mitochondria, but also mitochondrial biogenesis probably because it does focus a little bit more on this pore. Making more mitochondria, right. Right, make more mitochondria, we need more mitochondria.

The other thing interesting, I don't know how many of—how you or your listeners have looked at things like minocycline, right? Antibiotic, we always think antibiotics are bad, right? Yeah. Well, interestingly, minocycline and doxycycline. And minocycline is a little bit better, probably actually has a very nice anti-ageing effect, used periodically, to actually close off these pores, and let the cell kind of develop and grow more than mitochondria grow more. So minocycline has a really distinct effect on the mitochondrial transition pore as well, for this permeability pore. So there are a few simple things that you can use, and I like.

Lisa: And it doesn't want your good microbes and stuff when you take them.

Dr Yurth: You know, definitely antibiotics have the downside of changing the gut microbiome. And we know that there's downsides to that, which is why you're not going to stem minocycline all the time. But like anything, it appears to have some very significant benefits in our cell health. So by doing that, maybe twice a year, doing like a 10-day course of minocycline, you can actually restore cell health. Now, after that, do you have to really work on gut health? Probably depends on how bad your gut is. So if my gut is super healthy, it's probably gonna regenerate, divide, right? Otherwise, it would, I have a lot and I know you're really interested in some gut microbiome stuff. Because you're gonna be a really—you're gonna see a really big connection coming up here soon between the gut microbiome and mitochondria even. But we know the gut microbiome is most affected by butyrate.

So using tributyrate, which is sort of pre-butyrate that can turn to be right in your intestine. So if I had somebody on an antibiotic, do I throw—I'm just gonna throw probiotics into the mix? Well, no, because the probiotics aren't gonna survive. So what you have to do is first throw butyrate into the mix. Remember what the good bacteria in our gut do that we eat fiber? The anaerobic bacteria. Turn that fiber into butyrate. Butyrate has all these far reaching effects. Number one, it's imperative for the colonocytes, the colon cells to be healthy, that's what they—that's what they use for energy is butyrate. So they're different from your other cells, they use butyrate for energy. So when they use butyrate, for energy, I have these nice healthy colonocytes, they create a nice anaerobic environment where my anaerobes can thrive. And they can make more butyrate. And you have this nice cycle.

But butyrate has some really interesting effects. There was a great study for your distance runners using butyrate to increase performance. Because higher levels of gut butyrate also seemed to help the cell, the mitochondria, and actually produce you actually, were able to use the butyrate for fatty acid oxidation and actually improve aerobic metabolism by having higher levels of butyrate.

Lisa: Was it like yeah, the athletes with keto. Yeah, because butyrate is like, isn't butter got butyrate in it? Or am I? Butyrate, butter.

Dr Yurth: Oh, butter. So butter does have butyrate in it, yes. So you can even increase butyrate by eating a whole lot of butter. You'd be—so your medium chain triglycerides, the short chain fatty acids do have butyric acid in them. The problem with when you eat butyric acid, when you eat butyrate, it doesn't really reach this lower intestine very well. Okay, and so even though it has some benefits, probably some other places, you really have to get the gut bacteria. And so the only way to really get butyrate to the lower intestine is either to take a pre-butyrate form, which is I like tributyrin, one has research behind it, or to use it rectally. So that's the other thing you can do is use it rectally.

Lisa: Okay, then that gets direct into the colon and then can get the right to the cells there.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, and this actually has a genetic—do you remember your PGC alpha gene? So when you get hired to get butyrate, you actually upregulate PGC alpha. And that's one of the things that improves aerobic endurance in your long distance athletes. You can actually—they did a study with butyrate on improving endurance in sort of your distance runners, your higher level endurance athletes, and besides, it's significant improvements. Also in race horses. Same thing.

So butyrate does affect mitochondria in other places, including skeletal muscle, and around that. So there is this big connection that we're just learning about between the gut microbiome and mitochondria. So if I'm going to put somebody into minocycline. I'm going to also make sure I have them on tributyrate so I'm keeping that nice anaerobic metabolism going. I'm making sure I'm getting butyrate to myself. Now I've repaired the mitochondria. I've given it another source to work better. And I'm going to have overall better endurance, better health, better aerobic metabolism. Better Vo2max.

Lisa: Yeah, wow, that's just crazy. So butyrate—but if we just taking butyric acid or in through butter or that type of thing. Brother just arrived in the background. It’s all good. Podcast life. At least the cat’s not running from down as well.

So butyric acid, when I take it in the form of say medium chain triglycerides or butter and stuff, it's not going to help my colonocytes and my colon, but I still get through to the mitochondria and help.

Dr Yurth: Yeah. I mean, there's significant benefits to it, but you really want to replenish the butyrate in the lower intestine, where you really need that for overall health. You really have to either do it rectally, or take it as a pro butyrate or a pre-butyrate form or tributyrin–

Lisa: Tributyrin. I'll put that in the links.

Dr Yurth: You know what is interesting, my patients who have the worst, now are the sickest, like I take care tributyrate. I have no problems with it. I'm fine. I feel good and most people. But if you're sick or not well or have a bad gut and you take it, you'll feel pretty miserable. Because you actually can't turn it into butyrate very well and it actually causes a lot of GI distress. So some of those really sick people the only way to replenish butyrate first is to do a rectal suppository. So you can get rectal suppositories of butyrate right. You do like a high dose, like two grams of a rectal suppository, butyrate, replenish the butyrate then you throw like a spore probiotic or probiotic and now I've created this nice anaerobic environment I've replaced the good bacteria. Now actually they do fine as a maintenance with the tributyrate now that I've restored the gut health.

For people who are not well, and I'll tell you, if any of you patients or your people, you talk to your clients, you talk to them use him take tributyrin, and they get they're like, ‘Oh, I'm nauseous, I can't take it’, or ‘Gives me diarrhea’, but it's because they have a bad gut and you've got to work, you know, right? Yeah. So tells you, right, that you need to replenish the butyrate. And again, the only way to do is rectally.

Lisa: Can you buy that as a consumer without a doctor who's until….

Dr Yurth: But there is a company and I don't know that, here in the US that's called MitoZen. That does make a pro-butyrate, it's a suppository. It's a two-week course, you have a high dose butyrate and it's actually pretty cool as a spore biotic mixed in. So I use that product a lot. It's on the pricey side like all this stuff. But I really find like a two week course of it. People do pretty well. All you do is two weeks of it, and then you can get them into the oral much less expensive form. The rectal butyrate smells bad. One of my patients, like ‘All my dogs are following me everywhere’. Other people—when you're doing I don't think other people can smell it on you but you can kinda smell it when you do it. It’s kind of like urine. Some people don't like the smell of, I don't mind the smell of that, but some people say they don't like the smell of that either.

Lisa: Okay, men and tributyrate, so if he’s not really sick, so if they’re really sick. So if you've got something like Crohn's disease, or IBS, or something–

Dr Yurth: Those people you wanna do the rectal, and they do amazing. I will tell you, they do amazing. There's a big stage just coming out with Crohn's being a mitochondrial disorder, too. It's got mitochondrial disorder, but IBS, your SIBO patients, you put them on the rectal butyrate, two weeks so that they do absolutely amazing. Honestly, it's incredible how well they do in a lot of illnesses. I mean, it's been our go to for a whole lot of different disorders. And it's amazing how well it works. As you're learning the gut is everything. And now we're learning it may even be imperative to the mitochondria.

Lisa: So how does it connect with mitochondria? So that piece here I've sort of like, haven't quite got in my head. How does—like you said, mitochondria are the basis of health, because they are the ones that are producing the energy for the cell, talking to the nucleus, they're causing this cascade of different events in the cell. They're actually producing ATP, which is our energy. So if you look at things like say, as you get older, your EGFR goes down, your function of your kidneys, in other words, starts to deteriorate. And this is, as an ultra endurance athlete, we smash the crap out of my kidneys with rhabdomyolysis a hundred times. I've had real battles getting my EGFR back up and managed it to quite a good degree, but it's still a problem. And as we get older, we sort of lose about 1% a year they say, of kidney function.

So then it’s just another example of it's actually the mitochondria that in this case, and the kidney cells that are not able to do their energy production to do what the kidney cells should be doing. So how can we reverse that train and get our kidneys working in this case, or our brain or in another case, or heart cells? All of these areas are affected by the mitochondrial function. And how does that link connect to the gut situation?

Dr Yurth: So it connects to the butyrate because what butyrate does, at the mitochondrial level, is increases PGC-1 alpha and AMPK. And so you're, you're inducing on a genetic basis, a better oxidative capacity, right? So you're restoring the oxidative capacity to the cell, the mitochondria healthier. And so it's really working—the butyrate and searching fatty acids are really working on a genetic level, probably primarily at PGC-1alpha, I think we'll probably find more and more because this is very new. But it looks like that PGC-1 alpha is where it's happening is a very distinct effect on mitochondria. And then the AMPK through the ACC pathway.

So basically, I think, if you think about it, probably from your training and everything, think about it as an epigenetic influence changing genetic output, right. So that's probably where the short term fatty acids are working in terms of mitochondrial health, I think there's going to be more to that story. You're right, kidney disease brain to these, everything comes down to we have to have mitochondrial health. So exactly what you said, first, have a healthy gut, let's replace the butyrate. Because we know that that's important for those pathways, then, what we have to do is go through phases where we really induce mitophagy. That's where you're fasting and your spermidine comes in, right. So we've got to basically induce, get rid of all the bad mitochondria. So that's gonna induce mitophagy right. So get rid of all the bad stuff.

And then we want to do more of a build up phase. So what I'll do is all patients go through different courses, 6-12 weeks of really kind of more real time food restrictions, and using spermidine at a higher dose, and I'll get them sort of clean slate right. Now I want to regrow and that's where I want to actually regrow in. So I'm gonna have them now, get a little bit less out of eat a little bit more a little less calorie deficit, I want to create a little bit of oxidative stress because now I'm going to induce those humanin-like peptides, those mitochondrial peptides, my MOTS-c, SS-31, the small humanin-like peptides, humanin itself. So we know that those are so imperative for ageing, and that when those peptides are released, they induce your nucleus to have a healthier genome. So now I'm going to have everything else be healthier, because it's going to send messages back to the mitochondria, mitochondria is going to be healthy, but then that's gonna get overwhelmed after a while. So then we go back into our, you know.

So when you think of things that way, always that sort of breakdown-cleanup, breakdown-cleanup, kind of an easier way to live right? Don't get bored. Always live in this super restricted capacity.

Lisa: Especially with calorie restriction and things.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, like caloric restriction and right eating very low calories. Yeah.

Lisa: It makes you miserable too.

Dr Yurth: That’s right. And so when you can tell—when you tell people listen, I want you to do this for 12 weeks, and then we're gonna let you kind of, you know, have a little me, I'm not gonna tell them go eat cake, but we're gonna be able to, you know, do a little bit more and go through growth phases. And people feel better, and they look better and they have more muscle mass, if you're always in that AMPK state right, that break down, but not really break down state but that more longevity stat, more catabolic state more, yeah. Which is good for longevity, right? But when you look at those people, they always look so healthy. I'll look at someone's people. And you're like, I mean, sometimes they don't have much muscle mass, their hair is thinner. So we do want to go through these phases where we allow the body to kind of grow a little bit, right, especially if you want some muscle, we know that muscle is imperative to health.

And thenI think we're sort of in the long term now they've got the mitochondria in this good homeostatic balance state where I've gotten it, but how do I keep that reactive oxygen species as low as possible? That's going to be where you look at them. That mitochondrial transitional pore, where, how do I keep that balance? And I think that's where maybe a lower dose spermidine every day, like one or two tablets every day of spermidine but I love melatonin for that purpose.

Lisa: I wanted to come back to melatonin. So I understood like melatonin—I was a little bit hesitant to take melatonin because it can change or can fix your circadian rhythms and so on. But after listening to you a couple of times talking about melatonin, why is it not a problem then? Do we take it at nighttime? And what sort of dosages do we need to take?

Dr Yurth: It’s interesting. I mean, we will dose—so for my osteoarthritis patients who have, for instance, high levels, most patients who have diffuse arthritis, or degenerative discs have very high levels of a cytokine called interleukin 1 beta. Interleukin 1 beta is very damaging in mitochondria, that's probably one of the reasons you get cell death and, and your chondrocytes all die off. So one of the things we know blocks interleukin 1 beta is higher dose melatonin. We also know that that's very anti-cancer, right? Probably for the same reason it's creating this balance, this homeostatic reaction in the mitochondria. So I actually like, in those patients, high dose melatonin, a high dose melatonin sounds interesting. Unlike the lower dose melatonin, it sometimes actually has more of a stimulating effect. But it actually does help restore your own circadian balance at a higher dose.

I have a lot of people who take it in the morning, because if they take it at night, they actually are stimulated by it. If you take in the morning, they're sleepy at bedtime, and they sleep through the night. While I'm working with your own. Your super charismatic nucleus and tinea, we're kind of brain level, a kind of balance you back out.

Lisa: So what sort of level is like, I'm at the moment, just me personally, anecdotally, I'm taking a five milligram dose of melatonin at night time to optimise my sleep. And is that a low dose? Is that or is that a high? Yeah, what is the high dose?

Dr Yurth: So high dose is like 20 milligrams. We use the high doses in our people who have osteoarthritis primarily, cancer, we use high dose melatonin, especially your breast cancer patients will use high dose melatonin. So we'll use that, you know, as a trigger adjunct. Not always, you really have to kind of work with people, there's people who do great take in at night. One of my sons does great, it's 20 milligrams of melatonin at night. Sleeps through the night and wake up early in the morning. Me, I actually take it in the morning. If I take it at night, I'm wide awake all night. But if I take in the morning, I have a really nice, good sleep with good deep sleep on my Oura ring. I get a good hour and a half of deep sleep. So it seems very different in different people and how it's interacted. And I'm sure that has to do a lot with kind of genetic, what are your clock genes? So I think that that probably has a little bit of a genetic influence. And I do have people who just don't follow—can only tolerate very low dose. You know, but we're finding more and more reasons to be very cautious with oh, you don't really want to take more than three to five milligrams of melatonin. Yeah, really finding that the higher doses seem to have a very advantageous effect on...

Lisa: Without putting your body clock out. You're super right.

Dr Yurth: Actually, potentially really benefiting your body clock, your circadian rhythm, which is critically important. And right now, that's one of the sort of easy things we can do that we know is going to be working. And as I said, I think what—it's going to come down to when we look at this mitochondria, it's not going to be trying to figure out what is my perfect dose of antioxidants. It's gonna be figuring out how do I get that mitochondria with the pores, letting the good stuff in, letting the bad stuff out?

Yeah, in the right sequence because we know that, for instance, cancer cells that port stays open all the time. There's this very imbalance in this other mitochondria are really getting all this stuff all the time. So we know that a huge factor to health is trying to restore this normal port. I think that we're—there's a drug that's coming out. I can't remember the name of it. Yeah, I can't remember the name of it, but that will probably be actually really, if we can get it will be actually really interesting. It's actually coming out for the treatment of ALS. But that looks like it might be really helpful for that pore.

Lisa: They’re shutting the mitochondrial pore.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, I mean, if that will be something we can get. I don't know. But we'll find more things. Like I said, I think minocycline is a really nice thing to go to, like twice a year, I'll use a 10-day minocycline course, really benign.

Lisa: Minocycline. How do you spell it?

Dr Yurth: So, minocycline, M-I-N-O-C-Y-C-L-I-N-E. Cheap antibiotics. I mean, it's like a $10 antibiotic. Right. And that has, but it has really—and it's been looked at in the anti-ageing field for a while, but we kind of weren't so clear of its effect on the mitochondria. Well, now we actually have found it's actually working on this pore, to actually balance out and keep the pore closed more, which is what you really want. When we're young, the pore is not open as much as it does when we’re old, there's less bad stuff coming through the mitochondria.

Lisa: So itis getting porous, isn't it? So basically, the membrane is getting porous.

Dr Yurth: Exactly, that's probably where—like some of the mitochondria peptides like SS-31, which was the cardia lipid membrane, which helps them that endoplasmic reticulum inside the mitochondria to be healthy. So that's why peptides like that are so beneficial.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. And there's lots of, you know, we can't get these fancy peptides, unfortunately, that easily. The caveolae pan is an enzyme that is a very important enzyme for us. It's a stabilising enzyme, isn't it? So, we want more of this and this is what one of these peptides is right. And so hopefully, there's going to be more research around that and more drugs even coming out around that.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, and remember that one of the ways we induce some of these mitochondrial peptides is exercise. Right? MOTS-c is a little bit of stress for our body, right and so it reduces the mitochondria to produce some of these mitochondrial peptides. MOTS-c which is kind of considered exercise in a bottle because you can actually give at least mice you can give them MOTS-c— basically this mitochondrial peptide and it acts just like exercise.

Lisa: Exercise hermetic.

Dr Yurth: Yeah. So it's very cool. Of course, it's very expensive and... But way cheaper to go exercise, but it's a nice thing to offer people who can't exercise for some reason. Like, you'll have an injury or elderly people who are just so sarcopenic and trying to get them to do anything until you build a little bit of muscle is almost impossible. So things like that are going to be really nice in that realm as peptides like MOTS-c.

There's a whole company here that is actually just working on these mitochondrial peptides as drugs for treating things like this. Right now, we know that one of the best ways to produce MOTS-c is to exercise, stimulates your mitochondria to be a little stressed. Mitochondria produces more MOTS-c. MOTS-c helps with glucose metabolism, it helps with fat loss, it helps with turning white fat into brown fat helps. It helps with kind of overall aero metabolism.

Lisa: Just briefly on that. What is white fat versus brown adipose tissue, you know, brown fat? And why is brown metabolically active?

Dr Yurth: Yeah, so you know, white fats what—that fat we get as we get older and you know, it's really doing nothing beneficial. Brown fat is what little kids have, right? Brown fats—we look at babies or you look at little kids and they have that little chubbiness. Well, that's usually brown fat. Why? You know, maybe boys made fun because I'm always cold and so I'm way overdressed. My kids, but little kids don't get nearly as cool. We don't have to like them quite so bundled up as we do, because they're really covered with brown fat, which is metabolically active, that's what it was designed for. And when you're born you have this brown fat, you can stay warm. I mean, really, we were meant for survival, right? These babies who are born, they need something to keep them you know. Also there when you were caveman and you were just laying there in the cave, you survived.

So brown fat is metabolically active, it's helping for warmth and heat production. It's actually burning calories. White fat is what we get as we get older and we just eat too much and we sit around too much. And all it does is coat our organs and do nothing beneficial. So brown fat actually you can convert white adipose to brown adipose, so you can turn it into metabolically active tissue. Then you're actually going to be able to burn more calories and you'll be way more metabolically active. You actually want brown fat. You can convert white fat to brown fat. You know, and that's probably does come down to—that's one of the things that when you looked at butyrate it was one of the places that butyrate actually worked was actually helping to convert more brown fat and white fat. So there was a big problem putting people on butyrate can really help with fat loss using butyrate and if you're overweight people who are all have metabolic their guts are horrible. Yeah, uterine those patients can really help with fat loss.

Lisa: I just had Dr Austin Perlmutter on you know, probably… And he was talking about the white fat cells, the visceral fat cells having not a consciousness but they have an ulterior motive to keep themselves alive. So they seem that all these—make you hungrier, send out inflammatory compounds and so on to make sure that they stay alive. They end up killing the host in the end. But like a cancer cell, they although they have their own agenda independent of what was actually healthy for your body. So they don't want you to do fasting. They don't want you to do any of these things, because they're not going to get knocked

off.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, I mean, fat is metabolically active too. Remember it converts—fat cells have—they convert testosterone to estrogen. So men who are fatter will start converting all their testosterone into estrogen. So it's one of the places that that we have, you know, aromatase is inside fat cells. White men tend to have bigger breasts, and you know, is that fat cells actually are converting very mostly into this bad estrogen. So even your testosterone, you put them on testosterone, a lot of them just convert it to estrogen.

Lisa: Wow. So that's independent of your innate genetic pathway for your hormones.

Dr Yurth: Fat cells have aromatase. Fat cells have aromatase.

Lisa: Oh, wow, that's—I didn't realise that. I mean, I thought your genetic pathway was your genetic pathway. And you'll be converting your testosterone to estrogen is more if you have that genetic predisposition.

Dr Yurth: It's certainly genetic there. But yes, that fat guys have breasts, right? You look at breasts because they're very estrogenic. And so if you try and get—if you take some of your overweight males, and you put them on testosterone without using things to block estrogen or getting rid of fat first, then you just keep making more estrogen, making more fat. They’re making it worse, right?

Lisa: So okay, so it's not just to do with your genetic pathway, but also to do with how much fat you have. And the more fat tissue the more estrogenised you’ll be. That's in the new—okay. So that's why. Because you see, a lot of young people nowadays are thinking over probably growing up with less quality food than what we grew up with in our generation, seem to be more estrogenised and have more of these issues, and the actual body shape, the phenotype, the way it secretes, is this more estrogenised than past generations?

Dr Yurth: We're seeing a lot of twenty-year olds who come in, who have high estrogen levels, low testosterone levels. I think drugs have to do with that, too. I mean, here in Colorado, we have legal marijuana, which is unfortunately not very good for testosterone.

Lisa: Oh, wow. I didn’t know that either. Marijuana is not good for testosterone.

Dr Yurth: It's not good for testosterone levels at all. And then our food, right, bisphosphonates all these things that are so we're seeing this you know, these really young guys with testosterone levels that that you're a god awful.

Lisa: And then estrogen levels higher than the...

Dr Yurth: Estrogen levels that are high, right?

Lisa: Yeah, I just did my estrogen levels and my—I know mine are low because I'm going through menopause and so on. And I was looking at my husband's and I was thinking, ‘Oh, it was about…’

Dr Yurth: You do start good to see that right. You start to see that these men—these older man look like woman, it switches. Yeah. You know, and they start taking on more female build, right? They get the bigger breasts and bigger bellies and they start getting this more female build to them.

Lisa: I mean, I've had lots of things so that it's not it's you, going the other way and there's testosterone is good and bad. Yeah, that is what you see in older and older men is that tendency to go and eat. It's really really hard to get testosterone replacement therapy or hormone replacement therapy for men or—for woman a little bit easier. They've seen you know, the doctor seems... I am willing to give it to woman but well, this integrated medical fraternity for bioidentical hormone replacement? And, you know, it's so easy...

Dr Yurth: It kind of kills me because I get this—we're putting together this course called what to fix for us to kind of help people. In this journey of getting healthy, what do I do? Because I'm overwhelmed. And as I was putting together, I was like, ‘Okay, well, you start with exercise’. And that's it. No, actually, you kind of have to start with hormones. Because if I take somebody who has no testosterone, and no hormones, they have no progesterone, so they can't sleep, they have no testosterone, this is both men and women. So you know that their joints hurt, because there's progesterone receptors on joints, they've no testosterone. So trying to get them to go into the gym, and is impossible.

So for me to say, follow a good diet, do exercise without replacing hormones. It's really kind of not right, right. I mean, as I was putting together a talk, I said, you know, actually, the first thing I do is get these people hormone stabilised, because then I'm going to go to motivate another, their testosterone levels are good, they feel more motivated, they're going to build muscle, they're going to lose fat, they're going to feel like they can actually exercise, you know, they’re making progress, they can sleep. And that starts young.

And so to listen to, you know, your story of people not being able to get access to these things, and just, you know, it is almost criminal in my mind. To just say, you know, well just eat better and go exercise. Well, you can’t get it like that, right. You can't, right. You can't get out of bed much less go to the gym.

Lisa: And I know you'd like in my life, you know, when I was doing ultra marathon running and doing absolutely ridiculous amounts of training, I got fatter, because my hormones were going out of whack and my adrenals were totally, yeah, and fluid retention, and so on. And so, it's so counterintuitive, and now I train, it’s still hard, but it's short. And I'm not knocking the crap out of my hormones, and I'm on hormone replacement therapy. And, and I can get leaner on a 10th of what I was doing. So it's not all about exercise. In that case, I should have been skinny before and I shouldn't be so now.

Dr Yurth: Yeah, it's not, you know, I mean, obviously, exercise is critical, but not—you don't have to be doing extreme exercise. What I’m really trying to get across is just sensible stuff. We just did a thing about just taking a walk after dinner, right? The metabolic control of taking a walk after... Nobody does it. But it makes a huge difference in fat storage. And so there's some simple things you can do. You know, we always talked about all these big, you know, cool things and that are amazing. Yeah, peptides and hyperbaric and all that cool stuff. But there's some really simple things that cost nothing.

Lisa: So let's talk about that briefly. Because the blood sugar levels we're talking about in this case. So regulating your blood sugar is absolutely crucial. And nobody like—when I talk to the average person around me and clients and so on, that I'm working with, none of them have even ever taken their blood sugar once. Or maybe the doctors done at once every year and they don't understand the—and this is what I take constant glucose monitors. I mean, I want to get one, one year.

Dr Yurth: Pricey. But they're cool.

Lisa: Exactly. Yeah. Again, it's always a matter of where to put my results first. Constant glucose monitors give you that feedback of where your blood sugars are, what's causing them to go up and it's not just food by the way, it can be your emotions and your stress levels and so on and get like—I've been taking—I you know, prick my finger 10 times a day just to see where I'm at and to keep an eye on it.

Funny story: I thought I was getting, I was becoming diabetic, right? Because I was getting up in the morning and my blood sugar levels were very high. And I was like, ‘What the hell you know, I'm really slim’. What's going on? And I've been through a very stressful time and I thought maybe that's it. I've been doing in the morning cold showers and then Wim Hof sort of breathing. I was getting my blood sugar levels high, which is fine for the…

Dr Yurth: ...short periods. Fine, right. And again, those of those little stresses mean is that what about the mitochondria? Right? That's one of the things that causes mitochondrial biogenesis is that cold shower for the same reason. That little bit of stress, like I said, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And that's what that cold shower, the cryo does or you know, just taking that two minute cold shower. It creates that little shock response to mitochondria like ‘Shit!’, and they start producing more mitochondrial peptides which creates more mitochondrial biogenesis. So, you are right and just like the blood glucose going up, these little temporary stressors are good for us. It's the big long stressors that aren't.

Lisa: Yeah, and so regulating our blood sugar is really porting and understanding what does that and I just found out that doing that tumor breathing in the morning and stuff does. And that's fine. It's a great old story. So that's for a specific reason. And for my cortisol levels to go up in the morning isn't a bad thing, because that helps… etcetera, etc. But I did panic thinking that I was hitting towards diabetes. ‘I don’t want to see peptide tiers? Because I must have type one because I can't even type two’. And it's just a funny story.

But when you're measuring these things, you can actually see what things are doing. Yeah, like you might eat a banana thinking a banana is a healthy food, but it seems your blood sugars right through the roof. And when you know that you're going to avoid bananas. You know?

Dr Yurth: I mean, I think they're going to be sort of a critical piece to understand because, you know, it is hard to figure that out. I mean, there are things that like, in certain people, you can't figure out why their blood sugar is out of control. It could be very specific activity or something like that. That's doing it. So I do love the CGM. I wish they weren't so expensive. I wish there was some access to them. You know, it was not so pricey, because, you know, again, that's like $400 a month for the CGM.

Lisa: You can't afford it, and so many people.... And we could be like, this is like, for me from a regulatory perspective wouldn't that be great if we did this prevention stuff. And then we wouldn't have so many people with diabetes, because diabetes is the entranceway to cardiovascular problems, and urine, and all the rest of it. This is why blood sugar levels are really, really important.

So one of the things that Dr Yurth did recently was to challenge everybody listening out there on Instagram, when you've had your evening meal, or your big, big meal at lunch is big, to go for a 20 minute walk after, a 10 minute walk even. And that will actually slow the release, so you won't get that big sugar spike. And so I've started instigating that as well.

Dr Yurth: It’s so easy, right? And it's really nice and peaceful. My family took everything to drag them out. But you know, it was like, because of COVID, my kids are done at home. And you know, and but we don't talk, we don't see each other. And actually these little walks at night, were such a nice thing. I say that I got them to do for the week, and then we're done.

Lisa: But there are a couple of other things that we can do to lower our blood sugar levels. What do you think about things like Vanadyl and cinnamon and chromium and these sorts of things that can actually lower blood sugar levels as well, just to help you….

Dr Yurth: They can work really—honestly I used them a ton. I tell people just to use you liberally you can use it until, you know. I think chromium works on some people really well. And some people not so well, there's probably a bit of a genetic basis, or just if you're depleted it kind of basis to that. So that can be really helpful for glucose maintenance too. I do think people forget about cinnamon, put some on your coffee, put some on your oatmeal, but you know, you know it.

And then I just did a little Instagram thing yesterday, because there's a very interesting study that came out from American Diabetes Association of eating your protein before your carbs. So if you've got a plate with broccoli, and a little piece of bread, and some grilled chicken, what they did was they took people and they had them for one week, eat the protein first, actually at the car person, their salad and their bread first and then the protein. And then they measured blood glucose and insulin levels at 30-60-120 minutes. The next week, they did the opposite. They ate the chicken first. So the protein first and then the carb, the impact was 40% difference in blood glucose and insulin levels at 120 minutes. And the people went just by eating the protein…

Lisa: That makes sense, right? Proteins a little harder to break down.

Dr Yurth: So you start the digestive process and you know, yeah. Very simple, right? So if you're going to eat some carbs, if you're eating and remember carbs, even your vegetables, that you're gonna have lot less glucose impact and insulin impacts simply by eating the protein first and then in the carb. Or if you want to have something—I mean, what do we do right here in the US, at least we eat our salad first and then you know, hey, then we're eating the breadbasket. And then we eat our chicken last. Switching that around, so even if you're gonna have your little bread, your little ciabatta roll or something, you eat that after you finished your protein, and eat that last there was much less glucose in that.

Lisa: Wow. And then this is also true for fat and sugars. And I mean, not that we're advocating but if you having Coca Cola or some terrible drink my bed versus—which you shouldn't, I'm not saying that but—versus having an ice cream. Because the fat is in the ice cream, it will slow the response to the sugar compared...

Dr Yurth: Exactly, right. You’re actually, right. You're better off eating something like fatty sugar loaf than you are just eating a Coke. Which is why Coke is so bad for you. It's just so bad. Yeah, those are just easy things, right?

Lisa: Oh, yeah. I'm never—I'd sort of—what about enzymes like a lot of people are dealing with not having enough betaine, hydrochloric acid. Not enough digestive enzymes from the pancreas. And some of this is genetic. And some of this is age related, not breaking the proteins down and so on. Is there a rule of thumb without having tests and testing for all your pancreatic enzymes and so on.

Dr Yurth: There's some evidence that—maybe like the gut, a lot of things start with dysfunction and bile acids. In fact, one of my friends who's a physician, or medical practitioner, that takes care of a lot of very sick ALS patients, really has a belief that things really begin with the dysfunction of the bile level, you know, the bile acid level, and that we really do need to focus on that more. And I love betaine, you know, and I will—in any of my patients who are sick, or who have kind of more neuromuscular weakness, things like that, or I'm building muscle, I will always focus a little bit on, even if you're not testing digestive enzymes, I'll focus on actually having them use a digestive enzyme. So using just the sort of mass proteases and lipases and using that with their meals, because I do think there's a piece of that we are way overlooking in a lot of people. And that may be the start up of a whole lot of diseases. Is that that level?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. That makes sense to me. Because when you look at the protein levels, a lot of people or you know, working with a lot of athletes, of course, you're stressing yourself—a lot of repair and so on, having enough protein in the body…

Dr Yurth: Having it low in a lot of people, right.

Lisa: And you're given a new globe and are very important for longevity. And it's not always related just to what you've eaten, but the right function. But having optimised protein breakdown, so the amino acids, so a lot of—I think I've mentioned this before, but I had Dr David Minkoff on the show who's a really amazing doctor. And he has a product called Perfect Aminos that I've got a lot of my athletes on. And that just breaks down within 20 minutes into the body into the amino acid. So if they've got problems with absorption, they can't digest steak very well, they can at least get these perfect tomatoes, and they can get through and do their jobs specifically within a 20 minute time period. The recoveries that I've seen from injuries just from taking the Perfect Aminos blend has been fantastic.

I had a ripped hamstring performance and just your injury for five years and couldn't—oh, we have to have surgery and so on. I was on the Perfect Amino for a few weeks, and it was gone. So this is a big piece. Because if you're not absorbing your proteins, you're not going to be repairing a heck of a lot.

Dr Yurth: Curious to see how many people to—if you actually just went back that butyrate gut microbiome level, how much then that would sort of downplay into the—I think you probably want to tap on both—but I do wonder how many people you might, if you if you get the gut, the microbiome healthy again. And again, you guys are just throwing probiotics in the mix is not gonna work, you've got to get the colonocyte healthy. The only way that I do that is to fix butyrate. For please remember that remember nothing else. I see all people throwing tons of probiotics, I see doctors all the time say, ‘Oh, just take a probiotic’, the good bacteria, the anaerobes can't survive. Unless there's butyric acid, that for the colonocytes to have a nice healthy colon. So you're just throwing things in that aren't going to survive. You've got to fix butyrate and then you can throw the probiotics in if you want. But I do wonder how much—if you fix that how much the digestive process would correct or not? I don't know.

Lisa: Exactly. probably Yeah. Right. Make sense? And you know, the probiotics just as a last thing before we wrap up, so now we have to go. But the probiotics, they can have a histamine response, can't they? I’ve compared to a couple of clients who have put on probiotics. And then I've actually had an adverse reaction to probiotics, because they're histamine levels of…. What's going on there? Is our spore based probiotics in that case, better?

Dr Yurth: Yeah, that's probably a little bit better. But I think what you're doing again, is if you don't have this healthy gut lining, right, and you're now throwing a bunch of bacteria into an immune system, remember that all your immune systems are in the gut, serotonin levels are off, everything's off. The anything you put in is going to be being seen as a foreign thing and you're going to create an immune response or histamine response but not immune, basically an autoimmune response. Just because your body's seeing this stuff right now is a foreign invader because you don't have any—it's not it's not a normal environment for it yet. So you gotta quit. environment for it so that you know you have this nice—you don't want this where you want that gut bacteria in the, in the gut. So if I have bad claws, sides and it's leaking out of my gut into my bloodstream, not where they belong, right? They create this histamine immune response, right?

Just think of your colonocytes as you want this nice thick layer of cells, they're all bound together really tight. And the only way you can have healthy colonocytes is to have high butyrate levels, right? Wow, it's a really interesting study that came out that people who had good butyrate levels actually were more popular. So even came from a pheromone perspective. We can sense that those people are healthier. So you actually are actually liked better if you have higher butyrate levels?

Lisa: Wow. Okay, another reason to take butyrate inhibitors. So butyrate either, as tributyrin, as a pre-butyrate, right? Or rectally would be really better for two for two weeks if you can afford it, and you can get that. Which I'm gonna do…

Dr Yurth: A good way of doing it. It's just people don't like suppositories. But it is a better way of getting it there initially.

Lisa: Hey, whatever it takes, you know? Gonna stick something up your bum? Do it. I do use ozone every couple of days. So for me it doesn't work.

Dr Yurth: You’re used to it.

Lisa: Yeah. Dr Yurth has been absolutely amazing again today. This conversation went in directions I had no idea and I'm…

Dr Yurth: That's right, Lisa. We just go here, there. But that's kind of—but that's a cool thing.

Lisa: Yeah, that's a really cool thing. And people please go to bli.academy.com or the Boulder Longevity Institute. You will also find the direction there. And that's the education arm of the Boulder Longevity Institute. And it's free at the moment so go and hurry up, get in there, get the courses, get the information from Dr Yurth. She is really, I mean I've come, I've worked in, had on my podcast, hundreds of doctors and scientists. You are one of my favourites. I just have to say, because I just learned so so much from the academy and the work that you're doing and even on your Instagram and stuff. I just love watching that every day.

Dr Yurth: I appreciate that. Thanks, Lisa. You know what you're doing because you're amazing too. I love being on your show. Thanks.

Lisa: We'll have you back again and we'll keep people coming with this great information. So thank you very much, Dr Yurth.

Dr Yurth: All right. Stay well. Bye.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Challenges, obstacles and painful experiences — these are just some of things life throws our way when we least expect them. But no matter where you are in life right now, remember that you can push past the hard times. You can learn how to rise above life’s challenges. And if you feel lost, here’s a little secret: help others. Being of service to other people can help you find strength and a way out of your problems.

In this episode, Robert Joseph Cappuccio, widely known as Bobby, joins us to share his inspiring story of defying hardships and helping others. It’s easier to succumb to self-sabotage and addiction. But you have the power to make your experiences an opportunity for change and hope. Bobby also shares the importance of helping others, especially as a business owner and leader.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how to rise above adversities. 2. Understand the importance of intention and knowing who you serve. 3. Learn the difference between internal and external customers and why you need to start focusing on the former.

Resources * Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Connect with Bobby: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram * The Self-Help Antidote podcast by Bobby Cappuccio * PTA Global * The You Project Podcast by Craig Harper * The Psychology of Winning: Ten Qualities of a Total Winner by Denis Waitley

Episode Highlights [05:49] Bobby’s Childhood * Bobby was born with deformities. He was adopted by a man who had cancer. * After Bobby’s adoptive father passed, his adoptive mother entered a relationship with a cruel man. * Bobby experienced all kinds of abuse throughout his childhood on top of having Tourette’s syndrome. * Doctors had to put him on Haldol, which damaged his brain. * Yet, Bobby shares that these painful experiences helped him resonate with others and thrive in his industry.

[12:48] How Bobby Got to Where He is Today * Bobby initially wanted to become a police officer for special victims. * He almost passed the written and psychological assessments, but there was an issue because of Tourette syndrome. At this time, he started working at a gym. * Bobby worked hard. Eventually, he caught the eye of the gym owner, Mitchell. * Mitchell became like a surrogate father and mentor to him. * Listen to the full episode to hear how Mitchell shaped Bobby and put him on the path to success!

[20:31] Complications from Abuse and Empathy * Some adults tried to intercede for Bobby when he was being abused as a kid. However, he avoided their help because he was scared of being harmed further. * You can't just leave an abuser — it's difficult, and even simply attempting can hurt you. * We should understand that abuse can affect anyone. * Confident and intelligent women may be particularly susceptible to abuse because they find themselves in a situation they didn’t expect.

[28:58] How Abuse Isolates People * Abusers progressively isolate people by creating enemies out of strong alliances. * This can make someone lose their sense of self, making them more vulnerable and dependent on their abusers. * Assigning fault or blame to those being abused will not help anyone. * If anything, that stops people from coming forward.

[30:34] Help Others to Help Yourself * Bobby learned how to rise above his traumas and negative emotions. * His mentor taught him to look beyond himself. * It was only by helping others find a way out of their problems that Bobby found a way to help himself too. * He started to focus on helping people who were going through something similar to what he went through.

[33:32] Focus on the Intention * While working as a trainer, Bobby focused less on the transactional side of training and more on the transformational. * He wanted to help people find what they need at that moment and give them the support they need. * By focusing on his intention, he was able to get high rates of retention. * For Bobby, helping others means understanding their goals and wishes.

[36:12] Bobby’s Promotion * Bobby’s exemplary performance led him to a promotion that he didn’t want. He was scared of disappointing Mitchell. * He did poorly in managing his team of trainers, which is when a consultant sat him down and gave him advice. * Mitchell also had Bobby stand up and speak in team meetings. * You need to know who you work for and who you serve. When your perspective is aligned with your work, you will bring that to every meeting and interaction. * Are you taking care of the people you need to be responsible for? Hear how Bobby figured out his answer in the full episode!

[43:14] Lessons on Leadership * Companies often adopt a top-down mentality where bosses need to be followed. However, a company should not be like this. * Companies are made up of people. Your business needs to care for your valuable customers, both internal and external. * Treat your team members with the same level of tenacity, sincerity and intention as your external customers. * You can accomplish a lot if you hire the right person, set clear expectations and understand each individual’s motivations. * Through these, you can develop the team’s capacity and channel it towards a common vision.

[51:19] On Recruiting the Right People * David Barton hired Bobby to work as his head of training. * Bobby asked David what two things Bobby should do to contribute the most to the company. * David wanted Bobby to be a connoisseur of talent and to train them, train them and train them again. * Bobby brought this mindset throughout his career, and it’s served him well. * Don’t be afraid to hire people who are smarter than you.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘When you know that there's somewhere you want to go, but you don't know exactly where that is. And you don't have complete confidence in your ability to get there. And what a good guy does is they help you go just as far as you can see.’

‘We form and calibrate and shape our sense of identity in the context in which we navigate through the world off of one another. And when you're isolated with a distorted sense of reality, and you lose your sense of self, you become highly incapacitated to take action in this situation.’

‘So I started focusing on things and a mission and people outside of myself. Who's going through something similar to what I have gone through, even if it's not precisely the same situation? How do I help them find their way out? And by helping them find their way out, I found my way up.’

‘I never saved anyone; you can't change anyone but yourself. But the reason why he called me that is anytime someone would think about joining the gym...I approached it from a transformational perspective.’

‘And your job is to create and keep your internal customer by serving them with at the very least with the same tenacity, sincerity and intention that you are serving your external customer. If you don't do that, you're going to be shit as a leader.’

‘I think the only people who don't have impostor syndrome are imposters. Because if you're fraudulent, you wouldn't engage in the level of self-honesty, and humility, and conscientiousness, to go, “Am I fraudulent; is there something that I’m missing?”’

‘Anything I've ever accomplished, it's totally through other people. It's because I hired people that were a lot smarter than me.’

About Robert Robert Joseph Cappuccio, or Bobby, is a behaviour change coach, author, consultant, speaker and fitness professional. He is a trainer of trainers and at the forefront of the life-altering and ever-evolving industry of coaching.

For over two decades, he has been advocating and pushing the industry-wide and individual shift of perspective in development. Behaviour change is rooted in a holistic approach, not just goals to health and fitness. With his vision, he co-founded PTA Global. It has now become a leader in professional fitness development.

No matter how successful Bobby seems, it didn't start this way. His childhood was filled with neglect, abuse and traumas that could lead anyone on the path to drinking and addiction. Bobby is no stranger to hardship and challenges, but he uses these experiences to connect and relate to others, using his past hardship as a way to help others. Bobby is also the former head of training and development at David Barton Gym, former director of professional development at the National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM), content curator for PTontheNet, development consultant for various companies including Hilton Hotels, Virgin Active, Equinox, David Lloyd Leisure and multiple businesses nationally and abroad.

With his forward-thinking mindset and work ethic, Bobby champions practical programs that help both corporate and industry personnel, including individuals, get what they truly want. He advocates the process of change mixed in with the mantra of ‘you can be free to play’.

Interested in Bobby’s work? You can check out his website and listen to his Self-Help Antidote Podcast!

Reach out to Bobby on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends to offer them one way to rise above their trauma.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits, your host Lisa Tamati here, and today I have a fantastic guest all the way from America again, this man goes by the name of Bobby Cappuccio. And he is a world-famous fitness professional. He trains a lot of the trainers that are out there. But Bobby has an incredible story that I really want to share with you today. So, Bobby was born with a severe facial deformity. And he also had deformed legs, and he was given up for adoption. His mother couldn't care for him, and he ended up being adopted by another man. But he had a very, very abusive rough childhood. He also developed Tourette Syndrome at the age of nine. In all this adversity you'd think like ‘oh my gosh, what sort of a life is this guy going to live’? But Bobby has had an incredible life. He's a fitness professional, as I said, he's worked in many gyms. He was the founder and co-owner of PTA Global, which does a lot of the professional fitness development. And he has devised his own strategies and ways of educating people. And his programs are just second to none. When I told my business partner, Neil, that I just interviewed Bobby Cappuccio, he's like, ‘Oh, my God, he's a legend in the space.’ So yeah, he was really a bit jealous that I got to speak to him. So I hope you enjoy this interview. It's some rough topics in there. But there's also some really great gems of wisdom. And the funny thing is what Bobby is just absolutely hilarious as well. So I do hope you enjoy it.

Before we head over to the show, though, just want to let you know that we've launched a premium membership for the podcast. This is a patron membership so that you can become a VIP member of our tribe, help support the podcast. This podcast has been going now for five and a half years. It's a labour of love, I can tell you. It takes up a huge amount of my time and resources in both getting these world-class gifts for you, and also in study and research so that I can talk really, and interview very well all these crazy, amazing doctors, scientists, elite athletes and performers. So if you want to support us in keeping the show going, and like what we do in the world, and you want to keep those valuable content being able to be put out into the world, we'd love your support. And for that, we're going to give you lots of member, premium member, benefits. So, check it out at patron.lisatamati.com. That’s patron.lisatamati.com. That’s P-A-T-R-O-N dot Lisa Tamati dot com.

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Lisa: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today I have another very, very special guest and I was recently on this gentleman's show and now we're doing a reverse interview. I have Robert Cappuccio with me. Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert Cappuccio: Oh, thank you. When you say you had a very special guest, I thought you were bringing someone else on.

Lisa: You are a really special guest.

Robert: Had a lot of anticipation like who is this person? What a surprise!

Lisa: Well, you're a bit of an interesting character. Let's say that, throw that.

Robert: Just the microphone.

Lisa: No, I'm really, really interested to hear your story and to share your story with my audience, and to give a bit more of a background on you. And share gems of wisdom from your learnings from your life, because you've done some pretty cool stuff. You've had some pretty hard times and I'd like to share those learnings with my audience today. So Robert, whereabouts are you sitting at the moment, whereabouts are you in the States?

Robert: Okay, so at the moment, I'm in a place called Normal Heights, which is probably a misnomer. It's not normal at all. But it's a really cool, funky neighbourhood in San Diego.

Lisa: San Diego, awesome. And how’s lockdown going over there, and all of that sort of carry on?

Robert: Oh, it’s great. I mean, on St. Patty's day, I've got my skull from our own green. I've just had a few whiskies. So far, so good.

Lisa: This is a very interesting interview.

So can you give us a little bit of background? Because you've had a very interesting, shall we say, difficult upbringing and childhood. And I wanted to perhaps start there and then see where this conversation goes a little.

Robert: Is there any place you want to start, in particular? How far back do you want to go? Do you want to start from the very beginning?

Lisa: Please go right at the very beginning, because you're intro to your backstory is quite interesting from the beginning, really isn't that?

Robert: Okay, so I was born, which is obvious, in Manhattan, and I moved to Brooklyn early. So I was born, rather deformed. I was born with a significant facial deformity. And my lower extremities, my legs, quite never— like, if you saw my legs now, they're great. I have a great pair of legs at this moment. I'm not going to show you that because that would be a little bit rude. But my legs were kind of deformed and contorted. I had to walk with braces for the first couple of years of my life.

I was given up for adoption. I'm not exactly sure, I have the paperwork on why I was given up for adoption, but I'm not really certain about the authenticity of that story. And I wasn't adopted for a while. So as an infant, I was parentless and homeless and really not well-tended to. I'm not going to get into why I say that because it's pretty disgusting. And then I was adopted. And then my adoptive father, this is kind of interesting, he had cancer, and he knew during the adoption process that he was probably not going to make it. He wanted to make sure that I found a home because nobody wanted to adopt me. Because when they came in, I was physically deformed. It's like, ‘Oh, this baby’s, it's broken. Something's wrong. Do you have a better baby’? And when he saw that, he thought, ‘Right, I've got to give this kid a home.’ So he passed.

He passed when I was two. I didn't know him for more than a few months. And I hardly have any memory of him at all. My mother who adopted me, to be fair, she's developmentally disabled, and so she was a single uom with not a lot of skills, not a lot of prospects, terrified. And she basically, I think she met a guy when I was five, who I don't know if there's a diagnosis for him. He was mentally disturbed. He was a psychopath. I don't know if clinically he’s a psychopath, but that's pretty much how it felt.

Lisa: You were a child experiencing this. Yeah.

Robert: Yeah, I'm not like, I'm never sure in what direction to go with stuff like this. Never sure what’s valid, what's relevant. I spent my childhood in stressed positions, being woken up in the middle of the night with a pillow over my face, having bones broken consistently, and a series of rape, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and just every sort of trauma. Like imagine when I was nine years old, I was diagnosed, on top of that, with Tourette Syndrome. So I was physically deformed, going through shit like that at home. And then on top of it, I started losing control of my bodily functions. I started exhibiting tics, I started exhibiting obsessive compulsive behaviour. At some point, it was uncontrollable, like lack of control of my impulses, of the things that I would say, vulgarity. At some point, the doctors just thought that perhaps I was Scottish.

Lisa: And you’re funny as well.

Robert: And they put me on Haldol, which damaged my brain. That and the fact that, it's estimated, I've had at least over a half a dozen major concussions within my childhood —

Lisa: From the abuse.

Robert: — half a dozen to a dozen massive concussions. Yeah.

Lisa: Absolute horrific start into life.

Robert: When I was 10, I started binge drinking. And I thought this will help, this is a solution. But you know what? It's not. It's a little bit weird when you start a story off like this, because in some sense, it's not me being delusional, or Pollyanna, because I tend to think that I'm a little bit of a realist, sometimes too much, sometimes to the point of walking a fine edge between being hopeful and being a cynic. But I have to say that a lot of things that I experienced when I was growing up, turned out to be quite beneficial. It’s shaped me in a way and it helped me engage in certain career paths and certain activities that I don't think I really would have sought out, had this stuff not happened. So it's not like me, delusionally trying to create like all silver lining about stuff, it was shit. I understand the severity of what I went through. But I also understand where that led me. And I understand the good fortune that I had of running into certain people that resonated with me, and I resonated with them, largely in part because of my history. I don't think I would have related to these people had I not come from where I came from.

Lisa: So you’re talking like people along the way that were, ended up being mentors, or teachers or friends or helping you out and through these horrific situations? Is that what you're meaning, sort of thing that would actually helped you? Because I mean, given a background like that, if you were a complete disaster and drug addict, and whatever, nobody would blame you. You didn't have a good start in life, whatsoever. I mean, look at you now. Obviously you don't have any facial deformities, and you don't exhibit, right now, any of that stuff that actually you were and have been through. So how the hell did you get to where you are today? Because you're a very successful person, you have a very successful and a very strong influence in the world. What, how the heck do you go from being that kid, with brain problems and concussions and Tourette’s and abuse and rape and all of that, to being the person who comes across as one, number one, hilarious, very crazy and very cool? How the heck do you get from there to there?

Lisa: Just listening to, I can tell that you're someone who's highly intelligent, perceptive and an amazing judge of humour. So thank you for that. I think a lot of it was quite accidental.

So I had thought when I was younger, that I wanted to be a police officer, originally. And I wanted to be involved with special victims, even before that was a TV show. Brilliant show, by the way, one of my favourite shows on TV. But even before that was the TV show, I thought, if I'm going through what I went through, and it's very hard because I had Child Services in New York City, they were called ACS. They were at my house consistently. But the problem is, I believed at a young age that my stepfather was nearly invincible, like nobody could touch him.

Lisa: You were powerless against him. Yeah.

Robert: And when they came to the house and like, look, I had broken bones, my arm was in a sling. A lot of times, I broke my tibia. They won't take me to the hospital because they thought they would suspect stepdad of doing it. I couldn't even walk. And these people were sitting down, said, ‘Well just tell us what happened.’ And I somehow knew that, at a critical moment, my adopted mother would falter. She would not have my back. She would rescind on everything she says.

Lisa: She was frightened too, no doubt.

Robert: She was frightened. I don't think she had the emotional or intellectual capacity to deal with the situation. That's all I'll say on that. But I knew once they left, I just knew they couldn't do anything, unless I was all-in. And if anything went wrong, he would kill me. So I would have to just say that, ‘Well, I fell.’ And it’s like, there's no way a fork, like I would go into camp and I would have stab wounds in the shape of a fork. And people are like, ‘What happened?’ And I said, ‘I was walking, and I tripped, and I fell onto a fork that went through my thigh and hit my femur.’ It's like, okay, that's just not possible. But I kind of knew. And I kind of felt like nobody's coming to the rescue. And I thought, if I was a police officer, and I was worked with special victims, maybe I could be the person that I always wished would show up for me. But then, there were issues with that. So I think I got like, out of a possible 100 on the police test. I did fairly well. I think I got 103, there were master credit questions. And I thought, right, yeah, I'm going. And then I took the psychological and by some weird measure, I passed, that seems crazy to me now. It kind of seems problematic. I think they need to revisit that. But then when I took the medical, and with Tourette's, it was kind of like, ‘Ah, yeah.’ It was a sticking point. So I had to petition because otherwise I would be disqualified from the employment police department.

And during that time, I started working in the gyms. And when I was working the gyms, I kind of thought, there's no way I'll ever be as intelligent as some of these other trainers here. I'm just going to make up with work ethic what I lack in intellect. I would run around and just tried to do everything I could. I would try to clean all the equipment, make sure that the gym was spotless. But again, kind of like not like having all my wits about me, I would be spraying down a machine with WD-40. And what I didn't account for is, the person who was on the machine next to me, I'd be spraying him in the face with WD-40 when he was exercising.

Lisa: They still do that today, by the way. The other day in the gym and the girl next to me, she was blind, and she was just spraying it everywhere. I had to go and shift to the other end of the gym, is that right, cause I don't like that stuff.

Robert: I mean, in my defence, the members were very well-lubricated. And so, people would go upstairs, and like there is this fucking trainer just sprayed me in the face. And the owner would say, ‘All right, let me see who this guy is. What do you talk? This doesn’t even make sense? Who hired this guy?’ We kind of had like the old bowl, the pin. And like you could walk up top and look down into the weight room, and there I was just running around. And there was something about someone running around and hustling on the gym floor that made him interested. He's like, ‘Get this kid up into my office. Let me talk to him.’ And that forged a friendship. I spoke to him yesterday, by the way. So we've been friends for like three decades. And the owner of the gym became kind of like a surrogate dad. And he did for me what most guides do and that is when you know that there's somewhere you want to go, but you don't know exactly where that is, and you don't have complete confidence in your ability to get there. And what a good guy does is they help you go just as far as you can see, because when you get there, you'll see further. And that's what Mitchell did for me. And he was different because I have a lot of adults.

So I grew up with not only extreme violence in the home, but I grew up in Coney Island. I grew up living on the corner of Shit Street and Depressing. And there was a constant violence outside the home and in school and I got picked on. And I got bullied until I started fighting, and then I got into a lot of fights. And you just have these adults trying to talk to you and it's like, you don't fucking know me. You have no idea where I come from. You can't relate to me. When you were growing up, you had a home, you were being fed. You were kind of safe, don't even pretend to relate to me. And he was this guy, who, he was arrested over a dozen times by age 30, which was not why I chose him as a mentor. But he had gone through some serious shit. And when he came out on the other end of it, he wanted to be somebody other than his history would suggest he was going to be, and he tried harder at life than anybody I had ever met. So one, I could relate to him, I didn't think he was one of these adults who are just full of shit. I was impressed at how hard he tried to be the person he wanted to be. So there was this mutual respect and affinity, instantly.

Lisa: Wow. And he had a massive influence. And we all need these great coaches, mentors, guides, surrogate dads, whatever the case may be, to come along, sometimes in our lives. And when they do, how wonderful and special that is, and someone that you could respect because like you say, I've had a wonderful childhood. In comparison to you, it was bloody Disneyland, and so I cannot relate to some of those things. And I have my own little wee dramas, but they were minor in comparison to what you experienced in the world. So how the heck can I really help you out if you're a young kid that I'm trying to influence. And not that you have to go through everything in order to be of help to anybody, but just having that understanding that your view, your worldview is a limited, privileged background. Compared to you, my background is privileged.

Robert: Well, I don't think there's any ‘compared to you’. I think a lot of my reaction to adults around me who tried to intercede — one, if your intercession doesn't work, it's going to get me hurt, bad, or it's going to get me killed. There have been times where I was hung out of an 18-storey window by my ankles.

Lisa: You have got to be kidding me.

Robert: Like grabbing onto the brick on the side of the building. I can't even say terrified. I don't even know if that encapsulates that experience as a kid. But it's like you don't understand what you can walk away from once you feel good about interceding with this poor, unfortunate kid. I cannot walk away from the situation that you're going to create. So it was defensive mechanism, because pain is relative. I mean, like, you go through a divorce, and you lose this love and this promise, and somebody comes along, ‘Oh there are some people in the world who never had love, so you should feel grateful’. You should fuck off because that's disgusting. And that is totally void of context. I don't think somebody's pain needs to compare to another person's pain in order to be relevant. I think that was just my attitude back then because I was protecting my existence. I've really changed that perspective because, like, my existence isn't threatened day to day anymore.

Lisa: Thank goodness.

Robert: So I have a different take on that. And I understand that these adults were well meaning, because I also had adults around me, who could have probably done something, but did nothing. And I don't even blame them because my stepfather was a terrifying person. And the amount of work and energy, and the way the laws, the structure, and how threatening he was, I don't blame them. And me? I’ll probably go to prison. But I don't blame them for their inaction.

Lisa: Yeah, and this is a problem. Just from my own experiences, like I said, this is not even in childhood, this is in young adulthood, being in an abusive relationship. The dynamic of the stuff that's going on there, you're frightened to leave. You know you are going to be in physical danger if you try and leave. So, I've been in that sort of a position but not as a child. But still in a position where people will think, ‘Well, why don't you just go?’ And I’m just like, ‘Have you ever tried to leave someone who's abusive? Because it's a very dangerous thing to do.’ And you sometimes you’re like, just, you can't, if there's children involved, even, then that's even worse. And there's complicated financial matters. And then there's, whatever the case may be or the circumstances that you're facing, it's not cut and dried. And as an adult, as a powerful woman now, I wouldn't let myself be in a position like that. But I wasn't that back then. And you weren't because well, you were a child. See, you're even more.

Robert: I just want to comment on that a little bit. And this is not coming from clinical expertise. This is just coming from my own interpretation experience. I think, obviously, that when a child goes through this, you would think, ‘Okay, if this started at age five, what could you have done?’ But a lot of times we do look at, let's say, women who are in severe domestic violence situations, and we say, ‘Well, how could you have done that? How could you have let somebody do that to you’? And I think we need to really examine that perspective. Because powerful, confident, intelligent women might be especially susceptible.

Lisa: Apparently, that’s the case.

Robert: Because you have a track record, and you have evidence to support that you are capable, and you're intelligent, and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't anticipate. And I think it's easier to gaslight someone like that. Because it's like, ‘How could I have had a lapse — is it me?’ And it creeps up on you, little by little, where you doubt yourself a little bit more, a little bit more, and then you become more controlled and more controlled. And then your perspective on reality becomes more and more distorted. So I think we have to be very careful when an adult finds themselves, yes, in that position, saying, ‘Well, why didn't you just leave? How could you have let yourself very easily?’

It can happen to anyone, especially if you have a strong sense of confidence and you are intelligent, and because it becomes unfathomable to you, how you got into that situation.

Lisa: Looking back on my situation, which is years and years ago now, and have no consequences to the gentleman that I was involved with, because I'm sure he's moved on and hopefully, not the same. But the fact that it shifted over many years, and the control shifted, and the more isolated you became. I was living in a foreign country, foreign language, unable to communicate with my family, etc., etc. back then. And you just got more and more isolated, and the behaviour’s become more and more, more radical ways as time goes on. It doesn't stop there. Everybody's always lovely at the beginning. And then, as the power starts to shift in the relationship — and I've listened to a psychologist, I’ve forgotten her name right now, but she was talking about, she works with these highly intelligent, educated women who are going through this and trying to get out of situations where they shouldn't be in. And she said, ‘This is some of the common traits. They're the types of people who want to fix things, they are the types of people who are strong and they will never give up.’ And that is actually to their detriment, in this case. And I'm a very tenacious type of person. So, if I fall in love with someone, which you do at the beginning, then you're like, ‘Well, I'm not giving up on this person. They might need some help, and some, whatever’. And when you're young, you think you can change people, and you can fix them. And it took me a number of years to work out and ‘Hang on a minute, I haven't fixed them, I’ve screwed myself over. And I've lost who I am in the process.’ And you have to rebuild yourself. And like you and like your case is really a quite exceptionally extreme. But like you, you've rebuilt yourself, and you've created this person who is exceptional, resilient, powerful, educated, influential —

Robert: And dysfunctional.

Lisa: And dysfunctional at the same time. Hey, me, too.

Robert: And fucked up in 10 different ways.

Lisa: Yeah. Hey, none of us have got it right. As our mutual friend, Craig Harper would say, ‘We're just differing degrees of fucked-up-ness’.

Robert: That would be spot on.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And totally, some of the most high functioning people that I get to meet, I get to meet some pretty cool people. There's hardly any of them that don't have some area in their life where they've got that fucked-up-ness that's going on, and are working on it, because we're all works in progress. And that's okay.

Robert: The thing you said that I really caught is you lost your sense of self, and the isolation. And that is what abusers do, is progressively they start to isolate, and create enemies out of strong alliances and allies. And when you lose your sense of self, and you're so isolated — because as much as we want to be strong and independent, we are highly interdependent, tribal people. We form and calibrate, we shape our sense of identity and the context in which we navigate through the world off of one another. And when you're isolated with a distance sense of reality and you lose your sense of self, you become highly incapacitated to take action in this situation. And you develop, I think what Martin Seligman, called learned helplessness. And I think assigning fault or blame or accusation either to yourself or doing that to somebody else, not only does that not help, it stops people from coming forward. Because it reinforces the mental state that makes them susceptible to perpetual abuse in the first place.

Lisa: Yeah, it's so true. So how did you start to turn around? So you meet Mitchell, Mitchell was his name, and he started to be a bit of a guiding light for you and mentor you, and you're in the gym at this phase stage. So, what sort of happened from there on and? So what age were you at this point, like, your teenage years, like teenagers or?

Robert: I met Mitchell when I was like 19 years old. And what he allowed me to do, and it wasn't strategies, he allowed me to focus outside of myself. Because every emotion, every strong emotion you're feeling, especially in a painful way, resides within you. So if you feel a sense of despair, or you feel disgust, or loneliness, or isolation, or any type of pain, and you would look around your room and go, ‘Well, where's that located? Where's my despair? I searched my whole desk, I can't find it’. It's not there. It's not in your outer world. It's your inner world. And what he gave me the ability to do is say, ‘Okay. I grew up physically deformed. And despite everything I was going through, my physical deformities were one of the most painful things’. But the irony, more painful than anything else because you could see me out in the shops and go, ‘Okay, this is a person who has been severely physically sexually abused, who's suffered emotional trauma’. You could see that as I walk through the aisles, because you say, ‘Okay, this is someone who doesn't look right. This is someone who —', and I can see the look of disgust on people's face when they saw me physically. And then there’s nowhere to hide, you couldn’t mask that. I started thinking, ‘Well, what about people who feel that about their physical appearance and they don't require surgery? What are they going through? And how do I focus more on them? How do I take a stand for that person? What's the areas of knowledge? What are the insights? What are the resources that I can give these people to be more resourceful in finding a sense of self and finding their own way forward?’

Lisa: Being okay with the way that they are, because it must be just—

Robert: People are okay with the way they are, seeing an ideal version of themselves in the future. And engaging the behaviours that helps them eventually bridge that gap, where their future vision, at some point, becomes their current reality. So I started focusing on things and a mission and people outside of myself, who's going through something similar to what I have gone through, even if it's not precisely the same situation? How do I help them find their way out? And by helping them find their way out, I found my way up.

Lisa: Wow, it's gold. And that's what you ended up doing then, and within the gym setting, or how did that sort of work out from there?

Robert: Well, I became a trainer. And in the beginning, I was like an average trainer. But I became, what Mitchell called, like the person who saved people. I never saved anyone; you can't change anyone but yourself. But the reason why he called me that is, anytime someone would think about joining the gym, if they would sit down with someone, they approached it from, ‘Well, what can we do? Can we give you a couple of extra months? Can we give you a guest pass to invite some —‘. They approached it from a transactional perspective, where when I sat down with these people, I approached it from a transformational perspective. ‘What did you want most? What do you want most in your life in this moment? And what hasn't happened? What missed? What was the disconnect? Where have we failed? What did you need that was not fulfilled in your experience here and how do we give you those resources? How do we support you going forward?’ And it was also like, ‘Look, if you want to leave, we totally respect that. You've given us a chance to help you. And obviously, the fault was ours. I never blamed anyone. But if you had the chance to do it again, what would have made the difference? And give us that opportunity’. It’s like, ‘Oh, this person is like a retention master’. It's not that, my focus wasn't in retention, it was the intention rather, to relate to the individual in front of me.

Lisa: I’m hearing about the actual person and their actual situation and their actual wishes and goals, rather than, how can I sweeten the deal so you don't leave?

Robert: Precisely, and that had some unintended consequences, because it put me in a bad situation, because I got promoted against my will. And I didn’t want to get promoted. And I thought, ‘I'm just getting a reputation for being somewhat good in my current job. And now they're going to promote it to my level of incompetence. And now I'm going to disappoint Mitchell, he's going to find out this kid's actually an idiot, he's a fraud — ‘I was wrong.’ And the one person who believed in me, I'm going to lose his trust and his faith, and that's going to be damaging.’ So me being promoted into management led to a series of unpredictable events that shaped my entire career.

Lisa: Okay, tell us about that. Tell us about it. So you were pushed out of your comfort zone, because you just got a grip on this thing, the crazy worker.

Robert: So Mitchell had a consultant, and his name was Ray. His name still is Ray, coincidentally. And he said, ‘Yeah, I think you should promote Bobby, just a small promotion to head trainer. Not like fitness manager, just head trainer’. And when they approached me, it was almost like they told me like, I had to euthanise my pet. It was horrible. I was not excited about this. I was like, ‘Oh, thanks. But no, thanks. I love where I'm at.’

Lisa: Yep. ‘I didn’t want to grow.’

Robert: Well, they had a response to that. They said, ‘There’s two directions you can go in this company, you could go up, or you can go out’. And they fired me that day.

Lisa: Wow! Because you wouldn’t go up?

Robert: They’re like, ‘You've chosen out. And that's okay. That's your decision’. And I was devastated. Like that my identity is connected to that place. And on my way out the door, Mitchell's like, ‘Come into my office.’ And he’s sitting across from me, and he kind of looked like a very muscular, like an extremely muscular version of Burt Reynolds at the time, which was very intimidating, by the way. And he puts his feet up on the desk, and he's leaning back, and he's eating an apple. He says, ‘You know, I heard a rumour that you're recently unemployed. And so I would imagine, your schedules opened up quite a bit this week. You know, coincidentally, we're interviewing for a head trainer position. You might want to come in and apply because you've got nothing to lose’. What a complete and total cock. And I say that, with love, gratitude, gratitude, and love. So I showed up —

Lisa: Knew what you needed.

Robert: I remember, I showed up in a wrinkly button-down shirt, that is not properly ironed, which was brought to my attention. And I got the job. And I was the worst manager you've ever met in your life because first of all, my motivation was not to serve my team. My motivation was not to disappoint Mitchell. And that was the wrong place for your head to be in, if you have the audacity to step into a leadership position. Whether you tell yourself you were forced into it or not, fact of the matter is ‘No, I could have chosen unemployment, I would have done something else. I chose this. Your team is your major responsibility.’ And that that perspective has served me in my career, but it well, it's also been problematic. So I had people quitting because for me, I was in the gym at 5am. And I took two-hour breaks during the afternoon and then I was in the gym till 10 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock at night. I expected you to do the same thing. So, I didn't understand the worldview and the needs and the aspirations and the limitations and the people on my team. So people started quitting.

I started doing horribly within my position. And then Mitchell brought in another consultant, and he gave me some advice. I didn't take it as advice at the time, but it changed everything. And it changed rapidly. This guy's name is Jamie, I don’t remember his surname. But he sat me down and he said, ‘So I understand you have a little bit of trouble’. Yeah, no shit, man. Really perceptive. ‘So, just tell me, who do you work for?’ So, ‘I work for Mitchell’. He said, ‘No, no, but who do you really work for?’ I thought, ‘Oh. Oh, right. Yeah. The general manager of the gym. Brian, I work for Brian’. So nope, who do you really work for? I thought it must be the fitness manager, Will. So, ‘I work for Will’. He’s like, ‘But who do you work for?’ And now I'm starting to get really irritated. I'm like, yeah, this guy's a bit thick. I don't know how many ways I can explain, I've just pretty much named everybody. Who do you reckon I work for? He said, ‘No, you just named everyone who should be working for you?’

Lisa: Yeah, you got that one down.

Robert: ‘Have a single person you work for? Who are your trainers?’ He said, ‘Here, let me help you out. Imagine for a second, all of your trainers got together, and they pooled their life savings. They scraped up every bit of resource that they could to open up a gym. Problem is, they're not very experienced. And if they don't get help, they're going to lose everything. They're going to go out of business. They go out and they hire you as a consultant. In that scenario, who do you think you'd work for?’ I was like, ‘Oh, I'm the one that's thick. I've worked for them’. Because in every interaction you have, it made such a dip because it sounds counterintuitive. But he said, ‘In every meeting and every interaction, whether it's a one-on-one meeting, team meeting, every time you approach someone on the floor to try to help them, or you think you're going to correct them, come from that perspective and deliver it through that lens’. And things started to change rapidly. That was one of two things that changed.

The second thing that changed is Mitchell believed, because he would listen to self-help tapes, it inspired him. So he would have me listen to self-help tapes. And he believed that oration in front of a group public speaking was culturally galvanising. And in a massive team meeting where we had three facilities at the time, where he brought in a couple of hundred people for a quarterly meeting. He had me stand up and speak. Oh, man. I know you've done a lot of podcasting and you do a lot of public speaking in front of audiences. You know that experience where you get up to speak but your brain sits right back down?

Lisa: Yeah. And you're like, as Craig was saying the other day, ‘It doesn't matter how many times you do it, you're still absolutely pecking yourself.’ Because you want to do a really good job and you go, ‘This is the day I'm going to screw it up. I'm going to screw it up, even though I've done it 10,000 times. And I’ve done a brilliant job. Then it’s coming off.’

Robert: If you’re not nervous in front of an audience, you've got no business being there. That is very disrespectful. I agree with that. I mean, this is coming from, in my opinion, one of the greatest speakers in the world. And I'm not just saying that because Craig's my mate, and he gives me oatmeal every time I come out to Melbourne. I'm saying that because he's just phenomenal and authentic in front of a room. But I had that experience and I'm standing up brainless in front of the room. And as I start to realize that I am choking. I'm getting so nervous. Now this is back in the 1990s, and I was wearing this boat neck muscle shirt that said Gold's Gym, and these pair of workout pants that were called T-Michaels, they were tapered at the ankles, but they ballooned out. You know the ones I’m talking about? And I had a lot of change in my pocket. And all you hear in the room, as my knees were shaking, you can hear the change rattling, which wasn't doing anything for my self-confidence. And just instantly I was like, ‘Right, you're either going to epically fail at your job right here. Or you are going to verbatim with intensity, recite word for word, like everything you remember from Dennis Waitley’s Psychology of Winning track for positive self-determination’. Sorry, Dennis, I did plagiarize a bit. And I said it with passion. Not because I'm passionate, because I knew if I didn't say it with fierce intensity, nothing but a squeak will come out of my mouth,

Lisa: And the jingle in the pocket

Robert: And the jingle in the pocket. And at the end of that, I got a standing ovation. And that’s not what moved me.

Lisa: No?

Robert: What moved me was weeks ago, I was clueless in my job. I got this advice from Jamie on, ‘You work for them. They are your responsibility. They are entrusted to you. Don’t treat people like they work for you.’ Now I had this, this situation happened. And my trainers avoided me a month ago when I got promoted. But now they were knocking on my office door, ‘Hey, can I talk to you? Would you help me’? And it just clicked. The key to pulling yourself out of pain and suffering and despair is to focus on lifting up others.

Lisa: Being of service.

Robert: That was it. I thought I could be good at something. And what I'm good at is not only, it's terrifying before you engage in it, but it's euphoric after, and it can help other people. I can generate value by developing and working through others.

Lisa: This is like gold for management and team leaders and people that are in charge of teams and people is, and I see this around me and some of the corporations where get to work and consultants stuff is this was very much this top-down mentality. ‘I'm the boss. You’re doing what I say because I'm the boss’. And that doesn't work. It might work with 19-year-olds who have no idea in the world.

Robert: It reeks of inexperience. You think you're the boss because you've had certain qualities, and that's why you got promoted — do what I say. You are a detriment to the company — and I know how many people are fucked off and calling bullshit. I don't care. I mean, not to toot my own horn. Like anything I've ever accomplished, I've learned I have accomplished through hiring the right people and having a team that's better than me. But I’ve been in so many management positions, from the very bottom to the very top of multiple organizations I've consulted all over the world, you are only as good as your team. And to borrow from the late great Peter Drucker, ‘The purpose of a business is to create and keep a customer. And your most valuable customer’s your internal customer, the team that you hire. Because unless you are speaking to every customer, unless you are engaging with every customer complaint, unless you are engaging in every act of customer service on your own —' which means your business is small, which is fine. But if it's a lot, you're not ‘— you could scale that, it is always your team. And your job is to create and keep your internal customer by serving them with, at the very least, with the same tenacity, sincerity and intention that you are serving your external customer. If you don't do that, you're going to be shit as a leader. And honestly, I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks about that. Because I have heard so many opinions from people who are absolute — they've got a ton of bravado, they beat their chest, but they are ineffective. And it's extraordinary what you can accomplish when you know how to be, number one, hire the right person. Number two set expectations clearly — clearly, specifically. Number three, understand what motivates each individual, as an individual person and as a team, and then develop that team's capacity individually and collectively to channel that capability towards the achievement of a common vision, of a common monthly target. Period.

Lisa: Wow. So that's just, that’s one whole lot going on in one.

Robert: That is leadership in a nutshell.

Lisa: Yeah. And this is the tough stuff because it's easier said than done. I mean, I'm trying to scale our businesses and grow teams and stuff. And number one, hiring the right people is a very big minefield. And number two, I've started to realize in my world that there's not enough for me to go around. I can't be in 10 places and 10 seats at once. You're getting overwhelmed. You're trying to help the universe and you're one person, so you're trying to replicate yourself in the team that you have, and provide the structure. And then you also need those people where you're weak, like I'm weak at certain aspects. I'm weak at technology, I'm hopeless at systems. I know my weaknesses. I know my strengths, so.

Robert: I resemble that comment.

Lisa: Yeah, In trying to get those people where you, that are better than you. Not as good, but better than you. And never to be intimidated because someone is brilliant at something. They're the ones you want on your team, because they are going to help with your deficits. And we've all got deficits and blind spots and things that we're not good over we don't love doing. And then trying to develop those team members so that you're providing them and treating them respectfully, looking after them, educating them. And that takes a lot of time too, and it's really hard as a smallish business that's trying to scale to go from there wearing a thousand hats. And a lot of people out there listening will be in similar boats as ours, like, wearing a hundred hats and trying to do multitasking, getting completely overwhelmed, not quite sure how to scale to that next level, where you've got a great team doing a whole lot of cool stuff. And then realizing the impact that you can have as tenfold or a hundredfold.

Robert: Absolutely. And I'm not really a good business person, per se, like I've owned a few businesses myself, I've worked within quite a few businesses. And I think what I'm good at, and this goes back to another person that I worked for shortly after Gold's Gym. So Gold's Gym was sold, that's a whole story you don't need to get into. This is an interesting guy. I was doing consulting, I was just going out and doing public speaking, I had independent clients. And I crossed paths with an individual named David Barton. This is someone you should get on your podcast. Talk about an interesting individual. And David Barton had the one of the most unique and sexy edgy brands in New York City. And that's when you had a lot of competition with other highly unique, sexy, edgy brands. And he was the first person — he coined the phrase, ‘Look better naked,’ it was actually him. That's the guy. It was on the cover of New York Magazine. I mean, he was constantly, like his club in Vogue, at Harper's Bazaar, he ended up hiring me as his head of training. And his company at that time in the 1990s, which is quite the opposite of the mentality, the highest position you could ever achieve in his company was trainer. It was all about the training, and it made a difference culturally, and it made a difference in terms of like we were probably producing more revenue per club and personal training at that point than almost anyone else in the world, with the exception of maybe Harpers in Melbourne. So this is how far me and Craig go back actually.

Lisa: Wow. It’s that right.

Robert: Yeah, because we had found out about each other just a few years after that.

Lisa: Some of that Craig Harper.

Robert: Craig Harper, yeah, when he had his gyms. So we were introduced by a guy named Richard Boyd, a mutual friend who's like, you got to meet this guy, because he's doing what you were doing. And it all started when I went into David Barton gym, and I just thought, this is a different world. This is another level. Am I in over my head? So again, it was that doubt, it was that uncertainty.

Lisa: The imposter syndrome.

Robert: But I did. Yeah, and I think we all have, and I think the only people who don't have imposter syndrome are imposters. Because if you're fraudulent, you wouldn't engage in the level of self-honesty, and humility and conscientiousness, to go ‘Am I fraudulent, is there something that I’m missing’? Only a con artist never considers whether or not they're fraudulent, it's ‘Does that keep you stuck? Or does that help you to get better and more authentic, more sincere?’

So I had the presence of mind to ask David a very important question. And I said, ‘David, if there was like two things, or three things that I can do in this company, exceedingly well, what two or three things would best serve the member, the company as a whole, and of course, my career here with you?’ And David leaned back and he did one of these dozens of things he gave me, literally. And he sat there for — it must have been like five seconds — it felt like an eternity and I'm thinking, ‘Oh my god, that that was the stupidest question I could possibly ask. He probably thinks I should have this whole, like sorted out. After all, he hired me, or am I going to get sacked today?’ And then I was like, ‘I can't get sacked. My house just got ransacked by the FBI’. That was a totally different story. He comes, he leans forward. And he says, ‘Two things. Two things you got to do. Number one,’ and a paraphrase, but it was something very similar to, ‘I want you to be a connoisseur of talent, like a sommelier is a connoisseur of wine. I want you to hire interesting, and great trainers. That's number one.’ And he just sat there again. And I'm like, I think it was a power move. Looking back, it was a power move.

Lisa: Using the silence.

Robert: What’s number two, David? And he said, ‘Train the shit out of them. And when you're done with that, here's number three, train them again. Number four, train them again. Number five, train them again.’ And that stuck with me. And a year later, I wound up leaving David Barton, and I come back to work with him periodically over the course of many years, and I personally loved the experience every time. We’re still good friends today. And I went to NASM, and I became a presenter, senior presenter, and eventually I became the director of professional development for the National Academy of Sports Medicine. And I brought that with me. And trust me, there was times when I was quite a weirdo, because I thought quite differently than then a team of educators and clinicians. But it helped, and it served me well, and served me throughout my life. So I am shit at so many aspects of business. But I am really good, and probably because I'm very committed to recruiting people with the same level of insight, precision, intuition and sophistication that a sommelier would approach a bottle of wine.

Lisa: Oh, I need to talk to you about my business at some point. I need the right people because I keep getting the wrong one.

Robert: That, I'm very confident I can help. When it comes to recruiting and selection and hiring and training and development, that is my world.

Lisa: That’s your jam.

Robert: And because anything I've ever accomplished, it's totally through other people. It's because I hired people that were a lot smarter than me. It's funny because that's another piece of advice I got way back in my Gold Gym days, where one of the consultants was in the room and said, ‘You'll be successful to the degree that you're able and willing to hire people that are more intelligent than you’. And Mitchell quipped, ‘That shouldn’t be too hard for you, Bob’. Okay, yeah. Thanks, Mitchell. Yeah.

Lisa: Oh, yeah, nice, friend. You need those ones, don’t you? Hard case ones.

Hey, Bobby, this has been a really interesting and I feel like we probably need a part two because we haven't even touched on everything because you've had an incredible career. And I just look at you and how you how far you've come and there must have been so much that you haven't even talked about, have been all the really deep stuff that you went through as a child —

Robert: No, I've told you everything. There's nothing else.

Lisa: But how the hell did you actually turn your mindset around and how did you fix yourself and get yourself to the point you know where you are today, but I think we've run out of time for today. So, where can people engage with what you do and where can people find you and all of that sort of good stuff?

Robert: Okay, well, I just started my own podcast. It's decent.

Lisa: Which is awesome because I've been on.

Robert: So if you are looking for, like one of the most dynamic, interesting and inspiring podcasts you've ever encountered, go to The You Project by Craig Harper. If you still have time after that, and you're looking for some decent podcast material, go to The Self Help Antidote, that is my podcast. And I'm on Facebook. Social media is not really where I live. It's not where I want to live. It's not where I like to live, but I'm there. I'm on Facebook. I mean the rest of the older generation, yeah, piss off kids. And I'm on Instagram. I'm occasionally on LinkedIn, but not really. I will be on Clubhouse because I got to find the time

Lisa: What the hell is Clubhouse? I'll never come along.

Robert: Clubhouse — you know, it’s funny, I'm going around talking about Clubhouse. I'm promoting Clubhouse. I don't even know exactly how to use it. I don't know what it is. But I've been invited on it a couple of times to join in and to speak in a seminar. I'm like, “This is amazing. This is a game changer. I love it.” I don't even really talk about, but I'm intending to get on Clubhouse. It's one of those things where, it's like you see someone across the room. It's like, I don't know who she is or what she's about, but there's chemistry.

Lisa: We'll have to look in the Clubhouse.

Robert: I just realized, I'm way too excited about Clubhouse but anyway yeah.

Lisa: It's the beginning of a love affair, you always get over excited at the beginning.

Robert: It’s going to burn out quickly. I will wind up using all the social media platforms.

Lisa: So Bobby, so The Self Help Antidote is your podcast. It's the best way to connect to you. You’ve got a website, too, that people can go to?

Robert: Okay, I'm constructing a Self-Help Antidote website. My website developer is moving a lot more slowly than I thought. I'd have to sack them.

Lisa: Welcome to my world. Everything moves slower in the world of, the new world today.

Hey, Bobby, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for sharing so openly and vulnerably about your past, your childhood, some of the dramas that you went through, and I love your sense of humour. I love what you stand for and how you help people, and you help teams be the best that they can be. And I really appreciate you and I'm very glad that Craig has connected us and Tiffany. Thanks, guys. You guys rock. And we'll get you back again, alright then.

Robert: Thank you so much, Lisa.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Sleep is the time for our mind and bodies to reset, regenerate and repair damages that may have accumulated during the day. Undoubtedly, this is a part of our daily routine that is important and can impact our health. Sleep affects our emotional well-being and mental ability, as well as our physical health and energy levels. If you want to face the day with your best self, a good night’s rest is what you need. Thus, we need to learn how to optimise our sleep.

Unfortunately, millions of people worldwide suffer from sleep problems, including snoring and sleep apnoea. These disturbances in your nightly rest prevent you from making the most out of your sleep. Furthermore, you most likely don’t have the tools or knowledge on how to optimise sleep. Frances Anderson is with us today to share her story on how she decided to create a solution for sleep problems after not being able to find one for her snoring.

Listen to this episode of Pushing the Limits to hear more about Frances’ tips on how to optimise sleep.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how changing your pillow can give you a better, deeper and restful sleep. 2. Learn how sleeping disturbances like snoring and sleep apnoea can negatively impact your health and everyday performance. 3. Discover what you and those around you can gain from knowing how to optimise sleep.

Resources * Connect with Frances: Email | Instagram * Pushing the Limits Episode 150: Sleep Apnoea and its Implication with Jez Morris * Pushing the Limits Episode 153: The Science of Light and Other Foundational Health Principles with David Liow * Pushing the Limits Episode 180: Breathing as the Key to Better Healthy with James Nestor * Pushing the Limits Episode 182: How to Breathe Better with Patrick McKeown * Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! * Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. * Lifespan by David Sinclair * Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor * The Oxygen Advantage: The Simple Scientifically Proven Breathing Technique that Will Revolutionise Your Health and Fitness by Patrick McKeown

Episode Highlights [04:58] The Story Behind Frances Anderson * Frances has always been a snorer since she was younger. * Her snoring worsened as she grew older and progressed to sleep apnoea. * This condition impacted her health and emotional well-being. * She tried looking into ways on how to optimise sleep, but none of them worked. * Taking matters into her own hands, she developed the sleep positioner.

[11:26] What Is the Patney Sleep Positioner? * The Patney Sleep Positioner is a special pillow with a particular shape and design. * Its latex properties contribute to its durable and hygienic characteristics. * It supports your jaw, head and shoulders while sleeping. * This pillow promotes good sleep posture and opens up the airways. * It’s designed in a way that prevents your head from dropping down.

[15:27] The Negative Impacts of Snoring and Sleep Apnoea * The deep sleep phase is vital. This is why our sleep shouldn’t be interrupted during this phase. * Disturbance of your sleep occurs when you wake up gasping for breath. * These disturbances negatively impact your cognitive abilities and may cause neurodegeneration down the road. * It can also affect your partner’s well-being as their sleep gets interrupted too. * In turn, your relationship may get strained. Both you and those around you end up tired throughout the day.

[20:35] More on the Patney Sleep Positioner * The Patney Sleep Positioner has a 86% success rate. * Patney has a 30-night money-back guarantee. * The product has been tested in the WellSleep Centre at the University of Otago. * The pillow helps people who snore or suffer from mild to medium sleep apnoea.

[23:28] True or False: Big People Are Snorers * This is a fallacy; Frances herself falls within the 58 kg size bracket. * 25 to 30% of sales to women fall within the same size bracket. * Men who buy the pillow include those who are 5.9- to 6-feet tall, weighing 80 to 100 kg. * 42% of Patney Sleep Positioner sales are to women, 58% of sales are to men. * After menopause, 60% of women snore.

[27:38] Is the Patney Sleep Positioner Unique? * While there are similar products, the Patney Sleep Positioner has been patented in multiple countries. * Each pillow is individualised for the buyers. * The pillow considers the user’s weight, height and shape to give them the best support for sleep.

[29:35] What’s the Story Behind the Name ‘Patney’? * Patney is a made-up name that stuck when Frances was brainstorming. * Frances’ mother is named Pat. * Her grandson called her Patney once, and it stuck. * The brand name became a tribute to Frances’ mom who passed away from dementia.

[31:03] What’s Your Approach to Life? * Frances wanted a non-invasive solution to her problem. * The goal was for it to be non-invasive, comfortable and effective in preventing episodes of snoring and other sleep problems..

[36:45] Will It Help People With Asthma? * Patney has had customers with different medical conditions. * However, they have not conducted studies on these yet. * People with a cold or the flu report that the pillow can help open up airways. * There is anecdotal evidence that it may help.

[38:30] Why Do You Think Some Don’t Find the Pillow Successful? * Sometimes, there are more complex health issues than just snoring. * Some just can’t get used to using the pillow. * Others might have more serious sleep apnoea. If this is the case, Frances advises that they go to a sleep clinic. * Listen to the full episode for more information on the Patney Sleep Positioner and how to optimise sleep.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘So it's opening up their whole airway. Because when we’re snoring, you know, we have a normal pillow [and] we’re snoring, what's actually going on [is]—there we are tipping our chin forward onto the chest and blocking off these airways.’

‘And so what often happens is people get woken up by their own lack of breathing, and they've been constantly pulled out getting into that deep sleep phase, which is just absolutely crucial if you want to avoid neurodegeneration.’

‘If you're not sleeping well and getting good quality sleep, you're really going to age quicker. You're really going to damage your cognitive abilities, your memory. And you know, neurodegeneration is a likely chance of it happening further on down the road.’

‘But it's also a relationship issue too. You know, you've got the clinical issues with habitual snoring and sleep apnoea. But you've got relationship issues, too, that there's more than one person involved with this.’

‘But we knew we had a product that was going to solve a problem. And that problem was habitual snoring and mild to medium sleep apnoea.’

‘Without good sleep—all of those things: you can be eating perfect, you can be exercising perfect. But if you’re sleep’s out, you're not going to get the optimum out of your body.’

‘So it’s a wellness product, absolutely… While it was developed for snoring, you don’t have to be a snorer to use it.’

About Frances Frances Anderson, the founder and Managing Director of Patney, had suffered from snoring for most of her life.

She has experienced the negative effects caused by interrupted sleep and consequent fatigue. Frances could see the detrimental impact snoring was having on her health and her relationships. But it wasn’t until Frances’s husband told her one morning that she had scared the life out of him during the night because she had stopped breathing; this comment meant she was heading for sleep apnoea.

She had tried various anti-snoring products, including surgery, without success. So she decided to take things into her own hands. She set out to solve a problem that she and millions of other people experience.

Fast forward to today, the Patney Sleep Positioner pillow is no longer a dream. With the product being non-invasive, comfortable, and individualised, it is proven to control snoring for thousands of customers.

Connect with Frances and learn more about the Patney Sleep Positioner on her website. You can also send her an email at goodnight@patney.com or find her on Instagram.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know how to optimise sleep.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Lisa Tamati, your host of Pushing the Limits. Welcome back again for another excellent episode. I hope you're going to enjoy this one. I have Frances Anderson, who is the founder of Patney pillows, to guest today. You may think, ‘What? Sounds really weird’. But this is a very important topic. This is all about sleep optimisation, how to stop snoring, looking at sleep apnea and helping improve your health through correct sleep.

So, Frances is the founder of a company called Patney pillows that has sleep positioners. And this has all been clinically tested to help people with snoring, and this is an episode around sleep optimisation basically. So I do hope you enjoy this. If at the end of this interview, you're interested in trying out one of Frances's pillows, you can use the code ‘Lisa’ at checkout for a 5% discount on the actual product too. I don't usually do episodes where it's all based around a particular product. But this invention is pretty unique in the world. And it is helping people with their health and their sleep. So I'd really like you to listen to this and get some good information if you're dealing with anyone who has snoring, anyone who has sleep apnea, if you want to optimise your sleep, then this is the episode for you.

I'd also like to refer you back to a couple of other episodes that I've done around these topics. One are with James Nestor, one with Patrick McKeown and one with James Morris: two on breathing, and one on sleep apnea. If you're interested in further finding out more about optimising your sleep. There's also one with Dave Liow, on the science of light and how that affects your sleep. So make sure you go and check out all those podcasts as well in the back catalogue.

Before we head over to the show a reminder we have launched our premium membership group, our VIP group. If you want to come and join us at the pushing the limits podcast if you want to support us getting this great content out and we would love you to come and join our membership group, our patron group. It's only a few dollars a month. You know, really is a cup of coffee a month to be involved, and we have a lot of member benefits and we would love you to check it all out. You can go to patron, P-A-T-R-O-N patron.lisatamati.com for all the information on that.

And another reminder to check out my latest and greatest longevity and anti-ageing supplement NMN, which stands for nicotinamide mononucleotide. Now this is a supplement that helps upregulate the sirtuin genes which are longevity genes in the body. Without going into all the science. If you want to check out the episodes that I've done on this with Dr. Elena Seranova, a molecular biologist, then check those out on the podcast as well. And if you want to find out about this longevity and anti-ageing supplement if you're like me and you're getting on in, but long in the tooth, and you want to make sure that you slow the ageing process down and that you optimise your your health and your vitality and your lifespan then head over to nmnbio.nz, nmnbio.nz. And I highly recommend going and reading the book Lifespan by Dr. David Sinclair, a Harvard Medical School researcher. That is why I got into this. So if you want to know and do a deep dive into the science behind NMN and upregulating the sirtuin genes in autophagy, and know all about the sort of stuff that's going to help you live a longer, healthier life, then please go and check out all those resources. Right, now over to the show with Frances Anderson.

Lisa: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits today. And I have an amazing, lovely guest. And we've actually got a bit of a backstory. We already recorded this interview and then I went and lost it all on my computer somehow. Don't ask me how.

So Frances Anderson, thank you very much for joining me again. Very embarrassing situation when you go and delete an entire interview. So I know you probably want to throttle me but, today we're going to be talking a little bit about your story and this amazing invention. I want to call it invention that you've made. Now Frances is the founder of the Patney pillow or sleep positioner. And this is going to be an episode all about optimising his sleep and why snoring is bad for you and all of that sort of good stuff.

So welcome to the show, Frances again. So I think we'll start with a little bit of a backstory. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and then why you got into this, making this invention?

Frances Anderson: Well I'm the snorer, it's as simple as that. I had tried all sorts of things, including surgery, and that lasted about as long as it took the swelling to go down, so that wasn't effective. And I've tried most things and they just didn't solve the problem. And it got to the stage where I was beginning to get sleep apnea, so stopping breathing and my husband, one morning said to me, ‘You frightened the living daylights out of me last night, you stopped breathing. You got to do something about this.’ And so I sort of walked away and thought, ‘I don't know,’ What am I going to do, I’ve tried everything’.

And so I set about trying to find a solution for my snoring. And that took a little bit of time. I have to say it's not a great thing to try and invent something to sleep on, at two o'clock in the morning you're busy trying to design this thing, how the hell do you stop snoring. So eventually I did and then I felt that I'd solved my problem and carried on working like everybody else in my normal job and then a couple of friends said, ‘Can I have one’? And at that stage I thought I was the only female that snored.

Lisa: Let's dig into that little bit for a second. A lot of people have issues with snoring and for me that's sort of acceptable. Sort of it's like one of those things, I mean sort of, ‘Yeah, you snore, so who cares’? For women it's a little bit more embarrassing and like you thought you were the only woman who snored, and you're a tiny lady, very slim and, you said you struggled with snoring even in your young years, like in your teenage years. How did that make you feel?

Frances: Well I first knew that I snored at 13 when I went to boarding school. And of course you're in dormitories, and got horribly ostracised, and found I found that incredibly embarrassing. But also incredibly stressful because I didn't know how to solve it. And you know it's fine for people to say, ‘Stop snoring’, but how? So I went to the boarding school years and but still the snoring was a problem, but as I got older it became kind of a more of a problem and but I inherited from my mother, so it's probably not quite right that I thought I was the only female that there was that snored. My mother did and she was a chronic snore and with the knowledge we have now, obviously she had sleep apnea or really bad sleep apnea. And my problem, she died of dementia, and they are now looking at links between dementia with—sorry, with chronic snoring or sleep apnea, you're starving your brain of oxygen. Because it can stop breathing as much as 100 times an hour. So sleep apnea is huge.

Lisa: And we've done a—I've got a backstory with us too with my mom having sleep apnea after her stroke and I think she probably had it before it even, and doing a sleep assessment and realising that her SpO2 levels were down at around 70% at their worst time in the night, and that she was stopping breathing hundreds of times a night and actually knocking off her brain cells at a point we you know after the aneurysm which he didn't have a heck of a lot left.

And so this work came on my radar then and getting a sleep apnea assessment and realising that she was in deep trouble and having to have a CPAP machine and this is a problem that, as you know, not really well understood people sort of think snoring is just annoying. It's not just annoying, it's disrupting the sleep of the partner, obviously, in the bed which has its own health consequences for that person as well, or the other people in the dormitory in your case. But it is also really damangeling your health and there is a huge correlation now between Alzheimer's and dementia and neurodegenerative diseases and sleep apnea. This is—hence doing this podcast because it is a very important health topic.

Snoring is not just a pleasant thing and it's not just overweight old men that snore, Which is the common sort of perception. And we had a couple of experts on the show breathing experts, James Nestor and Patrick McKeown have both best-selling authors of breathing books, Breath and The Oxygen Advantage. And they talk about, you know, just how important the breathing is to the whole health and, you know, nasal breathing and in the talk of how important that piece of the puzzle is. And, you know, they go so far as to tape the mouth shut at night, which I do, actually, in order to help with the nasal breathing, which is optimising my breathing. I don't have sleep apnea, I don't snore. But that helps optimise if you like.

So you managed though, without doing, having a CPAP machine, to get on top of your snoring. And I think a lot of people would be interested in this because having a CPAP machine is brilliant. And thank goodness for them as I don't think my mum would be here now. But they're also very intrusive. A lot of people just won't comply with them. You've got this big mask over your face. And it's a very important machine. And the invention that you've made, the sleep positioner that you've made, doesn't replace CPAP. CPAP has its place. We need those. But for certain people this can help.

So you managed to—what is the sleep positioner? What is the special pillow that we're talking about?

Frances: Yeah, well, it's interesting. It took me four years to actually bring it to fruition. While I solved my own snoring within a few months, I had only just made it out of retail materials. So to commercialise that I needed to have a molded product. And so that took even more time to be able to then move it into latex. And we chose latex because of the properties. Because it's antibacterial, antifungal, anti-dust mite, it's temperature neutral, and it’s got a long life to always make from the rubber from the rubber trees, it’s close to memory foam which is made from petroleum.

Lisa: Yeah, I didn't know that. That's amazing.

Frances: So we wanted a natural product. And when I got in touch with the manufacturer, I thought I could just show them the drawings, and they could whip me up a mold, and hey, we'd have our pillows. But no, I had to say instead about trying to cut latex and build it into a shape that could be molded. And I learned that I could only do that with a scalpel. And I saw—I had made about 60 of these and my trialists would have a gallery session and let me know, said there are wedges on all sorts of exotic and make it the right shape. So eventually then we went and got the bulk made.

So the pillow is about—we call it a pillow because—sorry, we call it a sleep positioner. But in pillow is short for your life. So it looks nothing like your normal pillow. And some people get a bit of a surprise when they see it because it's a slightly different shape. But then your normal pillow doesn't solve snoring. So obviously has to be a particular shape and design. If I said to stand up straight, you find your chest comes up and out a little bit when you do that. And so there's a shoulder pad. And so the shoulder pad lifts your chest so that you can breathe right through your nasal cavity right down and into your lungs. So it's opening up your airways, like you do when you stand up straight. And then the main body of the pillow has a magic spotlight, if you like, called the sweet spot. And by positioning yourself here, in this shoulder pad, we can control the snoring.

Lisa: So it's opening up their whole airway so—because when we’re snoring, you know we have a normal pillow and we’re snoring, what's actually going on there? Are we tipping our chin forward onto the chest and rocking off the airways? There's probably a number of reasons, people who are overweight or have a big circumference of the neck, bodybuilders and so on. They have a lot of pressure going on to the airway just from the size of their necks. So is there you know is this is this really just it's repositioning that whole airway so that it's opened up. That's the whole premise behind it.

Frances: Yes, it is. It's about good sleep posture, and about opening up your airway and it's for both back and side sleepers, and sort of half tummy sleep on it. But it's not for pure tummy sleepers. And so the shape of the pillow supports the jaw when you sleep on your side, and on your back. And of course, keeping yourself in that nice position so that you can’t easily drop your feet down. The whole thing is to prevent the feet from dropping down and cutting off your airway. And getting—ike people who wake themselves up in the night. They sometimes hear themselves snore. Yeah, but they've actually stopped breathing, and they’re hearing themselves actually gasping for a breath..

Lisa: Wow. So they've actually been working out and saying, well, you know, on the podcast that I've done around sleep and breathing, when we, when we sleep, we need to get into this deep sleep phase, which as we get older, gets more and more difficult. We have not, you know, non-REM sleep and REM sleep. And we have different levels where we're in a deep, deep sleep where we're actually paralysed and unable to move, and their body does it in order to, we have all these dreams, otherwise we'd be living them out. But when we're in this really deep unconscious state, we're completely unaware of the position of our body and what we're actually doing and what's actually happening with our circulation and our breathing and, and so what often happens is people get woken up by their own lack of breathing, and they've been constantly pulled out of or getting into that deep sleep phase, which is just absolutely crucial. If you want to avoid neurodegeneration, you need that deep sleep.

So when you're being pulled out, and you're in only getting into a shallow state of sleep, and then being pulled out again, as you have to gasp for air and wake yourself up, the body is waking yourself up, so you don't bloody suffocate, basically. And it does it very well, but it is stopping you getting that really restorative, important deep sleep happening, which is really going to have effects on things like your emotional state, your ability to deal with stressors, your ability to function properly, basically, during the day.

And as time goes on, then it can affect your memory. And then it can affect, you know, the whole neurodegeneration side of things where you're not cleaning out the tau proteins that they talk about in relation to Alzheimer's. And we're doing this, there's something called glymphatic cleaning at night. And you know, I'm not an expert on sleep, I'm going to get Dr. Matthew Walker, I hope, on who can explain this way better than me. But there is this brainwashing effect that's going on when we're in certain levels of sleep, and it's the glymphatic system. And if we're not getting that really deep, you know, continuous sleep, we're not getting that. And so we're not cleaning out these damaged proteins, if you like, and they start to accumulate in the brain. And these can lead into neurodegenerative diseases. And I've probably butchered that from a science perspective. So, but you get the whole point.

If you're not sleeping well and getting good quality sleep, you're really going to age quicker, you're really going to damage your cognitive abilities, your memory, and you know, neurodegeneration is you know, unlikely chance of it happening further on down the road as you experienced with your dear mum. So this was really crucial for you because you didn't want to go down that same path having seen your mum go down there.

Frances: No, absolutely not. But it's also a relationship issue too. You got the clinical issues with habitual snoring and sleep apnea. But you've got relationship issues, too. There's more than one person involved with this. There’s generally two people involved with this.

Lisa: The one is the sufferer.

Frances: Oh it’s the sufferer. And so it's really important to try and resolve this for your partner's sake. Because while you're not sleeping well, and you will find that he'll be tired in the daytime, really tired sort of mid-afternoon, falling asleep at night,before bedtime, if you like. And it also, just that general well-being that fuzziness in the head and and such like. But your partner is also suffering from sleep deprivation. They're the ones that have been woken on a regular basis while you supposedly sleep through.

And you know, there's that lock in the morning that says, ‘Here's your star rating from a’... Generally the partner that has to go to the spare room, because they're the one that's being disturbed. So they're having to go and get into a cold bed somewhere else in the house. And or, you know, people don't necessarily have a spare bedroom and they're sleeping on a couch to try and just actually get some sleep. So it is, it's a social problem within your own home. And, you know, it creates arguments.

Lisa: It definitely does.

Frances: It’s very disturbing and, and you've got two people feeling very tired during the day. So it is important to get both parties to get a good night's sleep. And so now and again, you may store a little, but just turn over and you know, reposition yourself on the pillow and you're satisfied again. And so we have an 86% success rate, which we're really proud of.

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.

Frances: And you know, we've sold thousands of these now. So we know our statistics are right, because we give a 30-night money back guarantee if somebody is not happy. So we know for a fact that we have the same 86% success rate. But also we didn't go into this blindly there and just you know, hit the back with a second session. We put it through the Otago University, the WellSleep Center, at Berlin Hospital in Wellington. And a wonderful lady, Dr Angela Campbell who was in charge of that study. And it came out really, really well there too. In fact, we wouldn't have commercialised it if we didn't put all these resources into it, if we didn't believe in our product. But we knew we had a product that was going to solve a problem, and that problem was habitual snoring and mild to medium sleep apnea. We don't advertise it as a product that's going to solve serious sleep apnea because those people do have a serious condition,

Lisa: It can be a neurological thing. So in the case of mum, it's actually brain switching off in the wrong times in the night. Yeah, you know, so we can’t affect that. However, you know, like, even in a situation like with mum, I get up at four in the morning to check on her. And often she's taken the mask off, because she's had enough of it. And her argument to me is ‘Well, I'm not sleeping properly. You know, like, I'm not in the deep sleep at that hour. So it's okay.’ I’m like, ‘Mum, when you're asleep, have no idea what level of sleep you're in. And why would you think that in the early morning, you are not going to have sleep apnea, whereas at midnight, you are? This will be an extra backup system for me.

Frances: We do, we get people that buy the pillow because they know that they whip off this CPAP machine during the night. And so some people sleep with the CPAP machine and the Patney when they whip that CPAP off, they still have some protection for the rest of the night,

Lisa: Because neither—you know, like, even the CPAP machine isn't 100% coverage, you know, like it's blowing air down into your lungs, which you know, has its own certain amount of problems. You can't nasal breathe really when you've got a sleep apnea machine or at least mum can’t. And it dries your mouth out, and it does all these, it's not very nice having this you can't turn over very easily et cetera, et cetera. So it's, it is a little bit difficult having one of these. But in combination, and this is the perfect, you know, situation to be able to have it as a backup. If she does take it off in at least hopefully her chest is more open. Hopefully she'll breathe better, if not 100% perfect.

Frances: I mean, we talked before about big people being the snorers. Yeah. That's a bit of a fallacy. I believed that too. But no, I'm 58 kgs. Yeah. So I'm not a big person. And probably 25% to 30% of the sales that I make to a woman in that size bracket. So our problem is narrow airways.

Lisa: Yes.

Frances: But then if I look at it, the male, my male customers, majority of them would be five foot nine up to six foot and be in that 80 to 100 kg bracket. So they're not huge. They're not huge men. And they’re not overweight. You know, the big fellas, I don't see that much of.

Lisa: Really?

Frances: Yeah. But also, you know, if you're looking at females in particular, 42% of my customers are female, and 58% male. So that's quite a big number of females.. And also, after menopause, about 60% of women snore. But yeah, something else to look forward to ladies here.

Lisa: Yeah, we're in the middle of it. Thanks very much. It's awesome fun, this menopausal thing. So when your estrogen levels drop, and there's a big correlation between menopause and then worsening cardiovascular outcomes and so on. I wonder if part of that has to do with the sleep issues that come along with that, or whether it's because of the drop in the estrogen, which is particular for the heart. It's probably a combination of many things. But as your health starts to deteriorate because you're not getting good sleep, then you get things like, when you're not sleeping well, like shift workers for a start.

For example, you know, I've been dealing with this issue with my husband as well, he's doing shift work, shift workers die earlier. But that's pretty much a given. They are more prone to diabetes and cardiovascular, metabolic disorders and cardiac neurodegenerative disorders. If they're doing shift work where they have to be awake at night, they tend to be more overweight, they have problems with their appetite regulation, their hormone situations, all of these things are affected by sleep. So okay, that's for shift workers. And we need our shift workers because they keep the country going when we need them to be. But they need extra help. And then they also—we need to realise that, okay, so that's what's happening if you have to stay up all night, and your Circadian rhythms are all out of whack. And the rest of us get to sleep normal sort of hours. But if we're not sleeping well, again, this is going to have all of those knock-on effects.

And this is why I think this episode is really important. I don't usually do an episode with something on a particular product. But I think that this is a product that I've found that is actually going to help change people's lives. And therefore, it's really worth doing a whole episode on this because it's something that's easy to try out and see whether it works for you and see if it improves your thing, because it's the basis of all health is sleep.

As a health coach, as a running coach, before I deal with what exercise I'm going to get you to do or what nutrition I'm going to get you to eat or what times a day and all that sort of thing. I have to look at your sleep first. Your sleep is the basis. Without good sleep, all of those things, you can be eating perfect, you can be excising perfect, but if your sleep’s out, you're not going to get the optimum out of your body. So I think this is actually at the base. This is the thing we need to sort out first is your sleep. And a part of that is making sure that you're not snoring. And so I think trying their Patney pillow is a really good thing to have a go ahead if you are dealing with this.

And I haven't seen this type of product anywhere else in the world. I mean, I haven't searched the world. I'm sure there's somebody else maybe in the world has come up with something similar. But is this pretty unique?

Frances: Yeah, it is. We have actually paid into it and several countries and the major countries, because it is quite unique. I suppose the other thing I should tell your listeners about or your viewers about is that it's actually individualised. As far as we know, we are one of only three commercialised individualised pillows in the world. And so the pillow is unique to the user. And so we have an algorithm and we're developing that further and further all the time to determine what weight and size, well the size doesn't change. But what weight the pillow is, in the depths of it. So we compression test them, we know exactly what height it is. And so we measure that to the customer.

So we ask our customers some basic questions like, do they have a broad, very broad, average narrow shoulder. And if you cut them other questions like that, they don't need to measure themselves, all they have to do is compare themselves to their peers who are their height, roughly their height or weight. So we've been able to do that. And that is incredibly unique.

So our biggest customers being two meters tall and 170 kgs, so a fairly big boy. But we can cater for bigger still. And for everybody underneath that they're smaller, slightly about 4 foot 6 and about 45 kgs. So from the teeny, tiniest little lady who did snore, and through to the biggest fellows so we can cope with any body shape. In particular, we get a lot of tradies, strummers, sportspeople in particular, who have built up a lot of muscle around the necks or shoulders.

Lisa: Bodybuilders have issues with this.

Frances: We can deal with that though. So it's quite a unique product.

Lisa: Now I want to dive into a little bit the story of the name because this was a very cute story. It's called the Patney pillow. When I first talked to her I thought your name was Patney. You said it, but it's not quite right is it? Tell us about the story behind this.

Frances: My surname is Anderson, so very Scottish surname. Patney is a made-up name. My mum's—because my mum was a major snorer, and I inherited it from her. We were trying to think of what we would call the pillow. And so one day, one of my grandson—not my grandson, my mum's grandsons—walked into the house. Her name was Patch and he called ‘How you going Patneyneckers’? And she grabbed hold on for calling her that. The Patney stuck. And the grandkids used to call her Patney, and so we thought well what better name for the company and the product. We’ll call it Patney.

Lisa: What a lovely tribute to your mum. It's a cute name so the Patney pillow and it sort of sticks, rolls off the tongue quite nicely. And you know, this is the thing like you lost your mum to dementia. You were fearful that that was the track that you were going to be going on, and therefore you came up—and this is what I love the number eight wire mentality of you like, ‘Okay I've got a problem no one else can fix this for me I've had surgery I've tried every other thing there is around, I'm gonna fix it myself’. Are you very much like that, is that your approach to life?

Frances: Well I get all the things yeah. It has to be non-invasive, that was the other thing that was really important to me. Because I had tried a lot of invasive products like surgery and found that that didn't work. And so for me, it was really important that it was non-invasive.

It’s interesting we did a survey before we commercialised and asked people what was the most important thing about a product that could stop snoring and the partner said, ‘Stop snoring’, that was the most important thing, that they would stop snoring. We had a list, then it was ‘Comfort and such’ like. The snorers said ‘Well comfort is the most important thing’. For the partner, they didn't give a toss about comfort. They just wanted it away and if it's a torture chamber, I don't care you know. It's non-invasive, it's very comfortable and it has to be both for me that was for sure.

Lisa: Yeah and you know I sent you a photo of my husband using his one and you know he's loving it. He stopped snoring and that's you know improved my sleep knowing and improved the marriage because I'm not hitting him in the middle of the night waking him up because he's snoring like a trooper. And I'm worried, like your husband like when he would be snoring in and he would stop breathing and that would terrify me because I'm like, you know ‘When are you going to take a breath, are you gonna take a breath?’ And then you're like this the whole night you know worried that they're not gonna breathe. So I think it's just fantastic. I don't have to worry about that now. Now he just does the occasional sort of snoring noises and then when he's turning over and that's about it and then he goes back and he's good.

And he's very much like, because I, you can imagine in my household I'm the biohacking queen, right. I've got every gadget known to man. And I come home with all of these things for him to try and he's like, ‘Okay here we go again another thing that I'm going to have to add to my daily routine and regime of what Lisa is telling me I've got to do, you know whether it's from hyperbaric to ozone to you know shaking machines and all sorts of infrared light things that you stick up your nose’. And he's always like my guinea pig but he's taken to this like a duck to water.

So I was stoked because I did think he might go, ‘Nah, not doing that’ because you know very much he does that on occasion and ‘I'm not doing it’ you know. I tried to get into the mouth taping thing, that was never in a bar of that. But this is at least something that he's actually adopted. So sorry poor husband he's not here...

Frances: Yeah it reminds me of a story when I had trials when I was back in the prototype stage, and so I've given out these prototypes to the testers and I thought back about four days later to follow them to see how they were, how he was going. And he wasn't there but his wife was there and she said, ‘Oh’ she said ‘I had a terrible night's sleep the first part’. I said ‘What didn't work?’ She said, ‘No I've listened to him snore for 20 years and I thought he was dead’. So I was like, ‘What’s happened?’ ‘He's not doing it!’ Yeah, that upset you.

Lisa: Because you can get actually quite used to that sound a little bit it becomes quite comforting in a weird strange way. It's a bit like that white noise apps that you have. You turn on the white noise to help you sleep sometimes, a little bit like that. But yeah, you slept pretty quite, quickly if they’re not snoring.

So Frances, where to from here for your company? We're going to share the links and so on in the show notes. But can you tell everybody, where can they find out? Where can they reach you, there is a 30-day money back guarantee on this sleep positioner if people want to try it out, where can they find you?

Frances: They can find me on www.patney.com. That's P-A-T-N-E-Y dot com. And there's a wealth of information on our website about how to use. There’s not a lot of testimonials, there's blogs. And there's the story there too. But obviously, we will be offering some special through Lisa as well, too.

Lisa: Yes, we're gonna have a discount code. And we will organise that afterwards. And I'll put that in the show notes too, guys. So if you want to try this out, if you're dealing with snoring, if you're dealing with someone who is snoring, try it out, it's risk-free. Give it a go, it might change your life.

Frances: I think the other important thing too, is you don't have to snore to use it.

Lisa: This is the point.

Frances: Absolutely not. And we get a lot of people who their partner has one. And they've come back to us for one for themselves simply because it just opens up your airways, gives you good sleep posture and breathe easily through the night. And so a lot of people buy it because for more about wellness, as opposed to just snoring. So it’s a wellness product. Absolutely. As well as, while it was developed for snoring, you don't have to be a snorer to use it.

Lisa: A question, and this may be outside the remit of it, but would it help with people with asthma? Because when I was severe asthmatics, especially as a child, I used to sleep like half up, because it would take—would be less pressure on the lungs. Have you had any experience in that realm with asthma at all?

Frances: We've had people with different medical ailments, if you like, like reflux and aspirin and things like that. But we haven't done a study on that to say, ultimately, we get a lot of anecdotal evidence of it. But also people where they've got a really big cold or flu, they find it helps open up their airways as well too, during those years. So I can't say you know, from a medical perspective, that it's going to help. But because it does put you in that very good sleep position, and it does maintain an open airway, it may well help with. Like I said, we have anecdotal evidence.

Lisa: And I think, when you're trying out new things, especially when it's you know, something like a pillow, it takes a little bit of getting used to, isn't it? You'd need a couple of nights for sort of I know with Haisley, he—the first night he was like, ‘Not sure not sure’. And then after that, after a couple of nights he got used to it. And it's the same with mum’s CPAP machine. I've tried to change the mask that she wears so that it's less invasive, but she actually just wants to go back to the thing that she knows, you know, so it is very much a habit-forming thing. And once you push through that initial sort of pushback that you get when you try anything new that can help.

So what do you think—I mean, I think an 86% success rate is huge. And the 14% would just be people who aren't willing to push through that little difficult phase or just don't, you know, aren’t willing to try it. I bet you get a lot of partners buying them and then the person won't even try it out.

Frances: Yeah, the odd one. I mean, there's a myriad of reasons why, you know, that 14%. If I said it was 100% nobody would believe me. Yeah. Nothing, nothing is 100%. So we believe that you know, 86 is pretty good.

Some people have quite complex health issues. And there's more going on than just just the snoring. Some people will, they just can't get used to it. And some of the perhaps the older folks, you know, find that a little bit. But majority of people, it's fine. And we can’t solve everybody's problems. Sometimes plain doesn't solve the snoring problems. And they get their money back, and so there's no loss. We've tried it and for some reason, it doesn't work. There's some people who I believe have got serious sleep apnea. And I advise them to go to a sleep clinic and actually get there what's causing their problem, their snoring to be actually diagnosed and and sorted.

Lisa: Especially if it’s neurological—absolutely obstructive sleep apnea, and then there's neurological reasons for it like mum’s. Like where the brain’s been actually damaged, the brain stem’s damaged, and we can't fix it. And I've just had mum at the sleep clinic last week assessing her data because they record her data every weekend. Unfortunately, she hasn't improved everything else and your brain sort of come right but that aspect hasn't. So she can't ever get off that machine. We need it for life. And thank goodness we have access to that. So there is things, but she can still benefit from this pillow, especially when she takes it off in the middle of the night.

So I think all of these aspects—I really encourage people to go and listen to the episodes with Patrick McKeown and James Nestor. To understand more the whole, ‘Why our jaws even have developed differently than our ancestors, the different reasons for that the foods, the breathing, the nasal breathing, all of those aspects are also very crucial, important pieces of this particular puzzle. And I also did a episode on sleep apnea with James Morris, who used to own all the eating clinics throughout New Zealand and was very instrumental with us and with mum’s situation. So those are—if you're interested in this topic, make sure you go and check out those episodes as well. And try out the Patney pillow just go and order one find out. See if it works for you. If it doesn't send it back.

Frances: Well, you talk to us first.

Lisa: Yeah, find out, ask Frances all about it. See if it's going to be for you. Try it out. And then yeah, see how it goes and give us some feedback.

Frances: But the other thing is too, that if somebody does have a question, we’re only fire ways to telephone. And we've got lots of tips and tricks anyway. Because of course, we don't know what your bedroom environment is like, we don't know how old your mattress is, things like that. But we can overcome those problems as well.

Lisa: Yeah, brilliant. Thank you so much, Frances, for being somebody who thinks outside the box. And, one number eight wire mentality. I've got a problem. I'm gonna fix it. Now I'm going to fix it for everybody else, because this is exactly how I am too, and that's how I've come to do when I do. Have a problem, fix that. Okay, now I can help other people with it. So thank you very much for your time.

Frances: Thank you, Lisa. Thank you.

Lisa: Hi, again, it's me. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Frances. I actually got the code wrong. It's actually a 10% discount. If you want a 10% discount on the Patney pillow, then use the code ‘Lisa’ at checkout. I said 5% in the intro, but I got it wrong. It's actually 10%. So thank you very much Frances for the discount, and go over there and try it out now.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Failure happens to everyone; we will experience it at some point in our lives. Despite our sacrifices and hard work, we may not achieve what we set out to do. It is, however, important to approach failure not as the end of a journey but as a crucial lesson. And it doesn’t matter how many times you fail—physical, emotional and mental resilience will take us one step forward towards our eventual success and victory.

Laura Penhaul joins us in this episode to share the story of her expedition across the Pacific Ocean. She describes the preparations she undertook, from planning the expedition to gaining financial support. Laura also talks about the importance of breaking down the journey and being clear with team dynamics in the expedition’s success.

If you want to know more about the makings of strength and mental resilience in a person, then this episode is for you.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Gain valuable insights through Laura’s journey and expedition across the Pacific Ocean. 2. Learn about mental resilience and adaptability in dealing with failure. 3. Discover the importance of team dynamics in the success of Laura’s expedition.

Resources * Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! * Support healthy ageing through the NAD+ boosting supplement, NMN! Visit NMN Bio for more information. * Watch Losing Sight of Shore, a documentary about four brave women rowing across the Pacific Ocean, from America to Australia. * The strength of adaptability: achieving the impossible, Laura Penhaul on TEDxTruro * What it takes for a team to survive 9 months at sea, Laura Penhaul on TEDxClapham * Endurance podcast with Mark Beaumont and Laura Penhaul * Endurance: How to Cycle Further by Mark Beaumont * Connect with Laura: Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn

Episode Highlights [05:12] Laura’s Background * Laura worked in elite sport for the Olympics and Paralympics for more than 14 years. As a physical therapist, she was able to see people through their journeys as athletes. * In the face of adversity, Laura found two types of people: those who bounced back from it and those who gave up because of it. * She was inspired by those who wanted to thrive and make the most out of life. * She never experienced rowing before, but she was searching for a challenge. Ocean rowing was something she found ideal. * The expedition gave her a lot of learnings.

[12:58] Gaining Confidence * Reach out to those who have done what you want to do or to those who have expertise. * Laura had to break down the journey and prepare for it: planning the possibility of the route, gaining logistical and structural support, planning out the time frame and preparing the team. * She expected to finish in a year but didn’t. It took four years of planning before they could carry out the expedition. * She had to learn from her failures, figure out her blind spots and reach out to other people for help.

[16:12] Gathering Financial Support and Sponsorships * At first, Laura could not ask for money to support her journey. * She reached out to people who worked in business and sponsorship. They helped her shape her deck, brand and business model. * She also reached out to Mark Beaumont, an elite expedition athlete. She learned from his experience and failures. * With Mark’s help, Laura could have a structure for the timeline, budget and sponsorship.

[20:06] Physical, Emotional and Mental Resilience * Optimise your own elite performance. * Break down the journey and plan everything. Being prepared makes you feel confident when dealing with the unknown. * Have the courage to step away from comfort and the norms. * Push outside of your comfort bubble to reach your full potential.

[25:40] Going Beyond Your Comfort Zone * Laura considers herself a calculated risk-taker. * She does not leap blindly and makes sure not to leave any stone unturned. * It’s not a failure if you learn from it. * Have the physical, emotional and mental resilience and robustness to bounce back and ask where and why you went wrong.

[29:36] Dealing with Failure * You can prepare everything and still fail. * There are things you can’t control. Be adaptable and flexible in your performance. * During difficult times, the strength of Laura’s team was able to support a struggling individual. * Different perspectives help you see things you can and cannot control. It can prevent you from being ill or injured.

[34:42] Team Dynamics * Compared to individual sports, being in a team is difficult. * Expeditions bring out the best and worst in people. You won’t know unless you are in the situation. * Laura wanted her team to be cohesive and transparent. She always confronts an issue and steps forward to speak about it. * A performance psychologist helped them understand the differences in each other's personalities, which helped make their journey a success.

[44:05] Keeping Mindfulness in Moments of Struggle * Leveraging each member’s strengths and differences can end up holding the team together rather than pulling it apart. * When you are struggling, you may show a part of yourself that is cynical and selfish. * Remember: we are all working on our character. * In extreme circumstances, the bad side of ourselves could come out. Dealing with it is part of resilience and teamwork.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘There's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive’ they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up’.

‘How can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up? And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up [and] we've only got one option’.

‘It's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance’.

‘It is not a failure unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be’.

‘You kind of just got to crack on and then there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific’.

‘You've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible’.

‘The girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. I just had to put myself in the barrier first. I be like, “Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out”’.

About Laura Laura Penhaul is one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and the Paralympics.

Laura is known for her nine-month, 9000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat. She managed a team of four women known as the Coxless Crew; she was the expedition's team leader and organiser. The expedition is featured in a documentary called Losing Sight of Shore.

Connect with Laura through Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about stories of strength and mental resilience.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits once again. Today, I have another world-leading, actually world-record-holding, superwoman. Now, this lady is Laura Penhaul from England, and Laura is one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and in Paralympics with people with disabilities. She's done an awful lot in high-performance sport. But what Laura is really known for is that Laura did a 9,000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat, you heard that right. Right across the Pacific. Nine months it took and she was the team leader and organiser of this whole expedition. She got four women together to do this epic event. And there is a documentary out called Losing Sight of Shore.

And today we discuss this mammoth expedition that Laura undertook. The funny thing is that Laura hadn't even been a rower before she took this on. But because she had worked so much with high-performance athletes, people pushing the limits of endurance, and people with disabilities doing crazy things. She wanted to understand what is it that makes some people so resilient and strong, and other ones want to give up when they're faced with a trauma. And she thought, 'I don't need to wait until something drastic happens in my life, and my health has taken off me or my mobility, or I have an accident or I have something to wake up. I can actually take on some mammoth task so that I can start to understand what it actually takes and what resilience and strength is all about'. And she felt like she didn't have the right to be leading and guiding other people if she didn't have that experience herself. So she set off on a mission, what she thought would take them a year to do for a status to organise this expedition across the Pacific.

And they knew that taking it four years of preparation, we go into the, all the details of putting together such a high-performance team, it's a fantastic interview. She really is a superwoman. I'm in awe over here, I can't imagine being in a 29-foot boat for anything more than about two hours, I reckon, before I'd start going nuts, so she's pretty impressive, this lady. And before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we've launched now, our patron program for the podcast. So if you want to become a premium member of our podcast tribe, if you like, we'd love you to come and join us here on over to patron.lisatamati.com. And we'd love to see you over, the, it's all about keeping the show going. We've been doing it now for five and a half years each and every episode takes me a long time to put together to chase these world-leading experts, to do the research that I need to do, especially when it's dealing with scientific topics, and a test takes an awful amount of time.

And to keep it going we need your help. And we wanted to give you lots of benefits too so people who do get in behind the podcast and help us provide this super valuable content to everybody get a whole lot of exclusive member benefits. So we'd love you to check it out. Go to patron.lisatamati.com for more information on that. And on that note before we just hit over to Laura, I just want to remind you about my new longevity and anti-ageing supplement NMN Nicotinamide Mononucleotide. You would have heard a couple of times in the podcast I had Dr Elena Seranova and we're going to have her on more often. She's a molecular biologist and tells us all about the ways that we can help with anti-ageing. And one of those things is by taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, which is a very, very powerful supplement. It's an NAD precursor that helps up-regulate the sirtuin genes, helps provide a bigger pool of NAD to every cell in the body and helps on a very, very deep level. The ageing working against the ageing process and who doesn't want to know about them if you want to find out all about it and all the science behind it, please go to nmnbio.nz. Right, now over to the show with Laura Penhaul.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. Today I'm super excited. I have an amazing, amazing guest for you. I really do find the most incredible people and this lady is a superwoman. So welcome to the show. It's really, really nice to have you Laura. Laura Penhaul is sitting in Cornwall in England. Laura, how's your day going? Well, you're not going.

Laura Penhaul: Oh I was gonna say yeah no, it's been great. Do it. Yeah, it's now eight o'clock in the evening. So yeah, no, it's all good. It's been a beautiful sunny day.

Lisa: Oh lovely, lovely. So Laura is an amazing person who does expeditions and as a physio, Laura, can you give us a little bit of background? I want you to tell your story in your words, give us a bit of a synopsis about what you do and what the critical things. I mean I've done a bit in the intro so, but I really want your words, if you like.

Laura: Yeah, no props well, firstly, yes. Thanks, Lisa for having me on the show. It's been an honour because I think you're a superwoman more than me.

Lisa: Hell no.

Laura: But no I mean yeah, my background is I worked in elite sport, in Olympic and Paralympic sport for over 14 years. Sort of went to Vancouver, London, Rio, Tokyo cycles. And yeah during that kind of journey, and that was as lead physio in different sports, whether that was downhill skiing, whether it was with British Athletics Paralympic team. And more recently, I was with the British sailing team. And during that sort of journey as a physio like, the role that we have, as physios, physical therapists are very much kind of, you know, you're seeing somebody through a journey. And like when I worked with them and we've worked with patients in trauma, worked versus kind of, you know, in spinal cord injuries, and then straight to Paralympic sport, I've been surrounded by people that have been faced with significant adversity.

And it's sort of, it's always along my journey of my career, have I been fascinated by understanding the person in front of me and kind of going, there's usually two types of people when they've been thrown a massive curveball, like an RTA or road traffic accident, or something horrendous, that is completely changed their life for the rest of their life. Those two, there's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive, they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up.

And as a physio dealing with those two people, you've got to have a very different approach. And in the, kind of—to me, understanding that person that wants to give up and actually being able to change their mindset and facilitate, go shoulder to shoulder with them is really powerful. And then those people that do wake up and want to thrive, like they're the ones that have inspired me to do more stuff, because I'm like, why do we wait for adversity? Why do we wait for something to be a curveball before we then, like, start to go, ‘Oh, my God, I need to make the most of life like I’m fit. And I'm healthy. I need to make the most of life because clearly stuff could happen in an hour’s time.

Lisa: At any time.

Laura: Exactly. So that's kind of what then drove me to start to do more and more personally, and kind of a bit of exploratory expedition space. And then the real, so that led me to ride the Pacific Ocean, which is kind of you know what, we're talking about.

Lisa: You said it again, you just rode the Pacific Ocean is, I just dropped it as a, to yeah, and then I rode the Pacific Ocean. So you were into sailing and into rowing and into all of that sport, as prior, this was your thing?

Laura: No. Well, that's the thing, no wasn't in all honesty. I was, I'm kind of a jack of all trades like I love anybody, any athletes, anybody that I work with, I want to understand them. And I want to understand the sport, the environment that they're in. So when I was working with skiers, I went off and did a ski season. I learned to ski when I, and I'm somebody that, yeah, I love to do different sports and outdoors, the sort of outdoor environments. And if I was working with marathon runners, I was like, I can't fully treat them if I don't understand, if I haven't run a marathon like, to me, I need to experience what they've experienced, even in a small way to kind of get a glimpse of the environment.

So I would run a marathon, same with triathletes, and, you know, not to the extent of your, sort of did a half Ironman, and then the point was the Paralympic cohort when I was working with them. I was like, this is an area that I can't untap you know, yeah.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: I can do it, but I can't understand what it is to be a Paralympian.

Lisa: Yep.

Laura: However, how can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up. And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up you know, we've only got one option.

Lisa: Yep.

Laura: So I kind of, that's what I was searching for, for a couple of years of searching for something that was going to be out of my comfort zone completely and was going to be a challenge on multiple levels.

Lisa: Sure must have been.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess at the time, I was doing, sort of, triathlons. I was enjoying them. But anything that was cycling, running, swimming, I felt like this would be expected and I kind of would already be a bit familiar with it. So when I suddenly heard about ocean rowing, I was like, ‘Oh my god, this is ideal'. I've always wanted to row but never did it. Then never got a chance to, so I'd never rode before. I've never lost sight of shore. Like, you know, I've never been out at sea properly, never sailed or any of that stuff. Well, a bar like going on a few trips. But yeah, not a sailor by anyway, shape or form.

So it was, I was, and that just connected, you know, when something, an opportunity comes up and you're like, ‘This is exactly what I've been looking for'. And it was a proper light bulb moment. And the thing for me, it's the one time in my whole life that I've been so focused, like, ‘I have to make this happen'. Because I know, in my heart of hearts, I know what I'm going to get out of this is going to be huge.

Lisa: Wow.

Laura: And that basically is why starting point with it, it was kind of, I didn't know how to row, I went from being a marathon weight of like, something stupid, like 58 kilos up to, I had to go up to 72 kilos to grow on mass, you know, to be not skinny, because we lose a lot of weight out there. I had to put a team together, whereas, in my personal sport, I was doing quite individual sports. So, you know, I had to work out the team cohesion, the whole team dynamics, and recruitment. I had to figure out what the boat was, get it built, like then set up this as a business, you know, so. So yeah, so the whole journey it was, I mean, now on reflection, there's so many learnings from it. But I absolutely thrive from the self-awareness piece, how much I've learned about myself, and the different perspectives. And you know, approaching that row, my approach is very much like, this is all brand spanking new. So if I can approach it with a blank canvas, if I can have a real adaptive mindset, and if I surround, if I've now gone on the other side of the table, rather than surrounding athletes, if I surround myself with the relevant expertise, how far can I get? And how far can I really experience that athlete?

Lisa: Yeah, sorry, just my brother's just come in the middle of the podcast it’s all right. There. Come on Mitch, get around the other side. Yeah, this is podcast life for you. Didn't tell your brother you’re recording.

There was so much here that I wanted to unpack. Because there was like, you just skipped over a ton of stuff. Number one, you had no idea. So what gave you the confidence, what was the little voice inside you saying, ‘I can do this’, when you're in a completely unknown sport? Like what was it that made you think, ‘Oh, yeah, I can ride across the Pacific on a row across the Pacific, you know, for nine months, and that all worked out well'. You know, how did you even come up with a concept for something so audacious?

Laura: Well, I mean, it's all about small pieces, isn't it, and kind of reaching out to those that have done stuff and those that you respect and have the expertise. So it was basically breaking it, breaking the journey down. First of all, one is that route even possible? So initially, somebody had asked me to be part of the Indian Ocean, and they were putting a team together and then I evolved it into the Pacific. And then somebody, I was like, well, actually, originally, it might have been the new ocean wave race, which just goes from San Fran to Hawaii. And I was like, well, that's not the Pacific. That's a third of it, like so if I'm going to say I'm going to row the Pacific. I want to row, can I row all of it?

Yeah. So it was then reaching out to somebody from a logistical point of view and a support structure point of view saying, ‘Is this even feasible? And what would it look like?’ And when they said, 'Yes'. I was like, right, okay. So that's route can get involved, this is what it's going to look like. We're going to need to start, we're going to need to replenish, but it's doable. But it's going to take this time frame. And then it was kind of like right, in order for me to get prepped and the team to get prepped, what's the time frame that it's going to take to do that? Let's be realistic. And I wasn't realistic. I was naive, I thought it would only take us about a year to get to the start line. And hell no. It took four years to get to start, like four years.

Lisa: Four years. That’s massive.

Laura: Yeah, so it was. But interestingly, there's so many parallels, you know, like working in Olympic sport, everything's in four-year cycles for the Olympic cycle. And so there's so much that I learned through that process of, I thought I was only going to go in a year's time. That didn't happen. We didn't have the funding. I didn't got the team, the boat wasn't finished, you know, it was like, right, I need to go again. I need to reset. I need to sort of keep the ball rolling. But I need to learn from what failures have had here. And how do I overcome them?

Lisa: Wow.

Laura: The second year, I didn’t quite have to win I thought it was but it's all that sort of stuff. You go, yeah, you can give up why it's such a clear vision with it. And the question in my head was, ‘There's going to be an all-female team that is going to do this at some point. Like, why can't it be me? And I'm sure that will happen in my lifetime'. So what am I missing? What are the things that I can't see? That's in my blind spots. And that's where I started to reach out, to pull in different people to say, right, ‘This is the problem I've got, how can you help me’? How can you see and it was that reaching out for help with the right expertise that got us to the start line? It wasn't me. It was the collective bigger support team around us.

Lisa: How did you even, like the resources and the money in the financial and the sponsorship, when you didn't have a—I mean, you had a backstory as a high-performance expert, and helping other people in training and so on. But, you know you didn't have, you weren't—there were no huge amount of resources behind you. How did you—I know what I had to go through to get to the races that I did. And that was probably a heck of a lot less than what you had to go through. How did you face that? And what did you learn on the business side of the journey, the marketing, all of that sort of stuff?

Laura: Yeah, I mean–

Lisa: Selling the idea to people.

Laura: Yeah, the money. It kind of—it’s exactly that. I think it's showing the belief, like the absolute dogged determinedness, that this is going to happen, and you know, like, I put in my own swag to it. I paid for the boat built in the first place. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this, like, do you want to be part of it or not? But I want to do this regardless. Yeah.

Lisa: So basically, how I did too.

Laura: This is not my approach. But you know, I mean, I say that, but let's face it, I was useless at kind of asking for money, like, you know, it's great, you're doing it for charities. But to ask to support me, and like our journey. I was crap. You know, I'm a physio, I like to help people. I don't like asking for help. You know, at the time, I was very much in that poor sort of leadership style. And that's a big, that was a big learning point. But then reaching out to people that do work in business and do work in sponsorship. And they were the people that then helped me to shape sort of your sponsorship deck and how you need to brand it, what's your, you know, the colours, the language, all of that type of stuff.

Lisa: Wow.

Laura: And I loved it because I mean, I love learning. So suddenly, I was entering a snippet of a different world that I knew nothing about previously. Same with like the PR side of it, I had no idea but that was great fun, and, and the business model itself, like yeah became a business and I thought it was all about the physical and that was totally not it was 10% of like the project. And then yeah, so like you say, setting up a business no Scooby-Doo about and so simplicity was reaching out to people that had been successful had done it before. And the likes of, you know, Mark Beaumont, that we've talked about before like Mark. Mark is somebody that's an elite athlete, expedition athlete, he'd actually at the time rode the Atlantic, and unfortunately, they nearly died at sea. So I'd reached out to him to learn from his experiences from the actual failures, more, I don't want necessarily the successes, but, and he then was great at providing me with a bit more of the structure for you know, the timeline, the budget that this, that in the other room.

Lisa: Wow.

Laura: How you sort of need to get the sponsorship. And yeah, so I think to me, it's about as you know, if you hold, if this is a new space and you hold an ego thinking you're going to, then you're never gonna get anywhere.

Lisa: You’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Laura: Yeah, basically, just whereas for me, yeah, well, I don't mind. I don't mind saying I don't know something. I'm happy to ask why and how and who can help…

Lisa: You can be very humble, we can tell that five minutes of talking to you, you know.

Laura: Thank you very much.

Lisa: And how did you get a team together? Because you get four ladies, you rode the Pacific and people were talking like nine months and a rowboat unsupported, like from California to Cairns, wasn’t it? It's great. Yeah. There's a documentary out on it. If people want to find out we'll work out with it with the link sir. And how they can get hold of it perhaps afterwards. Four ladies in a rowboat, rowing across the lake. I mean, to the average person who doesn't know anything about rowing? It sounds absolutely insane. And I, like, I said to my husband, I was interviewing this morning and I said I couldn't last 24 hours in a rowboat. I probably couldn't last four hours in a rowboat. How do you comprehend nine months like that for me? Is, I mean, I've never done anything on that scale, of that long. You know, like, the longest thing I ever did was run through New Zealand which was a sustained effort over 42 days. And that well nearly bloody killed me, you know. But that's not nine months, you know, little logistics and all that. Wow.

Laura: Yeah, but you know what, I've been, flipping heck, you know. 40 odd days that you're running the lengths of New Zealand, like that is insane. So you could have...

Lisa: That’s a hell lot easier than rowing.

Laura: It’s not though! I mean, it's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance, like, not comparative to anybody else, like, what's your—so what you're really is your achievement of like, 42 days and everything else you've achieved is huge. Whereas somebody else's 42 days of running, will be running a marathon like that will be—it's about that gap analysis, like, where you'd got yourself to, to then be able to take on the 42-day sort of challenge. Like that was a big old leap, but you're already like, sort of—your experiences, and you'd prepped yourself for that.

Lisa: Yes, years and years.

Laura: Yeah, and where is somebody who's on a couch, but then is setting their sights of running a marathon. That's their 42 days, like, that's their elite performance for them. And the row for us? Yeah, it was a big old leap, but it was fundamentally, it was broken down. Like I think sometimes you must have found this with the run, you're talking about there and everything else. You've got to break it down, like you certainly in the preparation phase, you've got to plan every inch and every sort of crook of it within its life so that you don't leave any stone left unturned. You feel like you're best prepared, that gives you confidence, to then have capacity to deal with the unknown when you're faced with it. So to me, that sort of, I always wanted to leave, like, at least 30% of capacity in my headspace to make sure I can react to when I need to.

Lisa: You can handle it.

Laura: Exactly, and deal with the unknown. If I mean, if we'd gone on that row in that first year, Jesus Christ, like most of it was unknown, like that. I was so naive, it was ridiculous. But by the time you know, it's four years down the line, I felt so confident in actually we've trialed the boat, we've done 72 hours, we've done a couple of weeks. We've done team testing, we've done routines, we've done steep depot, we've done the training, we've done the site support, you know, all of those, every aspect of it. I feel like we took out and then it was a case of right, well, then we just need to do this on a day and day out. And then however long that's gonna last for it's just sticking to routines, which you know, the same in whatever you do.

Lisa: The more you do the more it becomes normal.

Laura: Exactly. And then it's kind of like, Well, actually, once you lose sight of shore, whether you're out there for five days, five weeks, five months, actually doesn't make much difference.

Lisa: You’re in this shit anyway. Too far from home anyway, you've lost sight of shore!

Laura: Yeah, you kind of just got to crack on and then, you know, there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about, you know, having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific. And for us, you know, yes, we rowed the Pacific literally, but to me, it was the essence of everybody's got their own Pacifics to cross like...

Lisa: Yes.

Laura: ...our film’s called Losing Sight of Shore because it's about having the courage to lose sight of shore, like, have that sort of courage to just step away from the comfort, step away from the knowns. And like, Oh, my God, you know, that's where life just opens up and expose.

Lisa: Because you know, I had Paul Taylor, who's a neuroscientist, and ex-British Navy guy, and exercise physiologist on the show last week, and he's talking about the small bubble where you can live in or the big bubble. And the big bubble is where we all want to be, you know, where we’re reaching our potential and we are filling and where are all these amazing things that we could do. We know that that bubble was there. But we're all scared living in this little comfort zone. And how do you push outside because that outside is risk of failure, and in your case risk of dying. You know, there was so much that you put on the line physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, relationships, you know. You name it, you put it on the line for this one thing, and that is living in that big bubble and scaring the crap out of yourself and doing it anyway.

Most people have this tendency to want to be comfortable in and I see this as a massive problem in our society today is that we are all cozy and comfortable and sitting on the couch watching Netflix and we are warm and we don't push ourselves for the gloom we don't push yourself. And this leads to disaster when it comes to resilience and being able to cope because you're been through this amazing adventure and expedition and you've risked everything, you must have an inner confidence that is just—and I know that you won't have it in all areas of life because this is certainly specific. And I know how that works because I'm really good and some things and really crap in others and I'm still working on my mindset in this area and that area or whatever, we're work in progress but you when you've lifted up your horizons to that big, nothing must daunt you in a way. Like he must be like, ‘Okay, whatever is coming at me, I can probably handle it'. Because you know, inside you have that resilience, which is so important.

Laura: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. It's about context, isn't it? Like I—you know, I'm a risk-taker, but I'm a really calculated risk-taker, right.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: Exactly. So kind of the Pacific seems like it's ridiculous, and it's life threatening. I mean, I didn't leave any stone left unturned. I had military guys helping us to make sure we'd sort of not left stuff unturned. We went through survival practice. We, I mean, there was everything and the amount of sort of, you know, routines we had on the boat, leashes, and kind of safety equipment was next to none. Because I was like, the risk we've got is getting separated from the boat. So I'm risk-aware, really risk-aware. And, and kind of, and make sure that sort of don't leave any stone unturned so then I feel confident to go forwards. I wouldn't just leap into it like blindly.

Lisa: Yep, you shouldn’t.

Laura: Yeah exactly.

Lisa: Because you will die.

Laura: Yeah. But I mean, it's no different if you watch, I don't think like, you know, you watch Alex Honnold, climbing free solo, you know, the El Cap, sort of the climb, if anybody’s seen that film. I mean, it's phenomenal. And anybody would, you know, you watch it. You're like, ‘Oh, my God, that's insane. He’s free climbing that like, what if he just slipped’? What if this? What if that? But look at his meticulous approach to it.

Lisa: Yeah, one hand wrong.

Laura: Exactly. But then his meticulous approach, he hasn't just woken up that day one, right. So I'm going to climb up, you know, sort of freestyle at this thing. He's like, he's been off top-roping with it, he is kind of lead climbed it. He's, kind of, known every single holding place he's written it, he’s drawn it, he’s visualising it. And he's only done it when he feels completely ready, prepped. And that actually, there's no move in that that is going to be a risk. So, therefore, he's a calculated risk-taker. And it is extreme when you watch it, but the preparedness is totally there.

Lisa: I couldn't do it. I didn't put the parachute on as I'm halfway down. You know, you do learn from that, you know. I remember going out into the race in Niger, which was 353Ks across one of the most dangerous landscapes in you know, places on Earth, countries on Earth. And we were meant to have food come from France, and it didn't arrive. And I wasn't prepared. I didn't have my own stash, I didn't, my husband at the time, my ex-husband there. He did, you know, like, and when you're doing things like that, and you end up with food poisoning, and you're, you know, vomiting and shitting your way across the Sahara. And you realise, you know, you could have avoided that. That’s sort of a big lesson and do your preparation better, you know. Don't be so cavalier with your, ‘I am going to go and, you know, run 100 miles, and I haven't even trained for a marathon yet'. No, no, you know, and I had to learn those things the hard way because I had a tendency just to dive in. And this is all exciting. And let's do it.

Laura: But then you learned that didn’t you?

Lisa: Yeah, but it's not a good way to learn in the middle of the Sahara. It’s better to learn previously.

Laura: Yeah, that is sure. But yeah, I mean, you still but you learn and I think that's one of the biggest takeaways, of whenever we talk about failure and stuff. It is not a failure, if you, unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: So yeah, just it's having that like you say, that the sort of the robustness, the resilience or whatever it is to bounce back to kind of jump back up to ask the questions. ‘Well, why didn't that work? And let's try it a different way', or learn from it and do something.

Lisa: Yeah, like you said, You reached out to Mark and he'd had, you know, nearly died and had actually failed in that particular expedition, done lots of other crazy stuff, but you know, and that one and it is those things like you are risking failure and you have to understand it from the outset. That you can take care of all the things you can prepare. You can get everything and you're still risking because, if this was easy, everyone would be doing it. And you have to be okay with the—this is something I try and get my athletes to understand. When you're actually done the work, you've done the boulder, you've done the—all the hard stuff that you knew now standing at the start line, that's actually to have time to celebrate and go, you know, ‘I've done the hard work. Now it's up to whatever's going to come my way'. And like you say, being able to adapt and to have the flexibility to take whatever's coming at you, which isn't always easy, but you have to sort of give up those—I think the consequences of what if, what if, what if, because if you’re constantly asking yourself, for ‘What if I don't make that time?’ You know, say you're running a marathon, or I want to do it in under three and a half hours, or whatever the case may be, and then you're so like, ‘Oh, no’, and then it takes you three hours and thirty-two and you know, ‘I'm a failure’, you know, like, hang on a minute, no, hang on. That's not how it works.

Laura: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah, you've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible. And that was one of the things in your website, talking about adaptive, being adaptive in your performance. And I think that's a really good thing because we cannot control like… You can be having a bad day at the office and get up and you feel sick and your immune system’s down and you've got your period and you've, you know, whatever the case may be. And you weren't bargaining with that, you know, so you have to be able to work, ‘I need to still go because there's no way back. How do I deal with it’? You know?

Laura: Yeah, and I think it's a really valid point. Because I mean, even in the row halfway through, and it's in the films, it's not kind of confidential stuff. One of the girls, like, she just completely changed her personality, right, because that was exactly the problem. She thought she could control the boat. She thought, you know, she was a rower. Out of all of us, she was somebody that actually had rowed since she was a kid and stuff. She thought ocean rowing was, you know. She didn't want to lose the passion. Unfortunately, yeah, it killed her passion. She didn't know then, she lost the sense of identity, all of that stuff.

Lisa: Oh yeah, real tough.

Laura: Yeah, awful. And, but because she was trying to control the boat, you know, like, the current, the wind was against us, like, those are things you cannot control. It’s a one ton boat, not one person is going to be able to control moving that in the direction you want it to go in. And so, but it was the collective of the team that enabled us to be able to rally around and understand, first of all, recognise the change in personality, it was a behaviour, it was yeah, there was something underlying. It was not her—well, it was, but there was something emotional that she couldn't verbalise straightaway. So hence, she just changed her personality type.

Lisa: Wow.

Laura: And then it was like the strength of the team to be able to rally together to support that. So kind of come at it from the right approach that she was able to share it, to then collectively go, we just need to see a different perspective on this stuff. And I think that's where, you know, a vast dynamic sort of team, you know, a diverse team sorry is what I meant, has got so much strength in it, because you know, what, when you see it through your own lens, there's only sort of one way. Whereas if you've got some diversity there, I just think it brings a different perspective. And suddenly, you're able to see, you can't control the uncontrollable, you know, you can only control the controllables. You can't control what's out of control.

And those things are the weather that is, you know, yes will prevent being ill or injured. But that might well happen. That, you know, is what it is. And if the boat sort of fails, but you whatever, then those are only three things that are going to be out of our control. And if anything happened there, then I wouldn't be. I would have been upset, I would be upset, but I wouldn't be throwing my toys out the pram because it isn't something we could control. And if the row didn't happen, we didn't finish because one of those three things, that is what it is.

Lisa: Yeah, it is what it is. And you've done your utmost. And I mean, I've failed on different expeditions and things that I’ve done, like really fallen on my face, you know, with, you know, documentary crews there have captured all on film as you just absolutely completely faceplant. And, you know, and it takes a long time to get up again, and it knocks the crap out of you. And, you know, but it's part of that, okay, well, this is the game wherein, you know, we’re pushing the limits, and sometimes, you know, you are human and you don't have the resources or one of the things that I find really, really I'd love to and I think this probably needs its own podcast is the whole team dynamic thing. I mean, it's one thing to be a solo athlete that does things, you know, but it's a—couple of times when I've had to be in a team situation. I find it really, really tough because you were reliant...

I did one in the Himalayas, and we're trying to do the world's highest marathon ever done. And I was with a guy who was a mountaineer and used to altitude and very at home in that space. And I wasn't. And I don't—I've done a couple of things at altitude and sort of survive by the skin of my teeth. I'm an asthamtic and I don't really do well on the mountains. So take on, you know, the world's highest mountain. Good idea. And we'd be in shape. And I got sick. I got altitude sickness, and I couldn't even start my body. I couldn't even tie my shoelaces.

But the worst thing was that he changed. The person that he was down here was not the person that he was up there, and, it ended up being quite nasty, and quite, detrimental. And he's not here to defend himself. So I'm not gonna say anything too much. But it wasn't a nice situation to be in — I did not trust that if I was in the shutout there, that we would work together as a team to get through it. I felt like, now, he wouldn't do that.

And then so now I'm like, very, very always aware of if I'm teaming up with people like we've got at the moment, this weekend in my hometown, that Oxfam 100, it's 100-kilometre event where lots of just normal everyday people are doing 100Ks, which is like amazing, walking, and they're doing it in, you know, teams of four, and the staff are going to go through... And there'll be people that are, you know, expeditions bring out the worst and bring out the best in people. And you don't know until you're in the situation with them, which way are they going to go, and which way you're going to go. I mean, I can become, I've been a really horrible person on some of my, you know, with my crew on different occasions where I've just lost my shit because I'm in so much pain, sleep deprivation, motions are up the wazoo. And you just, you know, you're snappy, irritable, you know, just horrible. Afterwards, I’m heading to go and say, ‘I'm very sorry'. You know?

So how did you deal with that over nine months like that on steroids? Like the dynamic—four women—everybody's having their highs and lows at different points in there. How did you cope with that? I mean, you're obviously, you've mentioned the one person and how you helped pull together, it takes incredible leadership to keep a team like that together for nine months, no matter how wonderful you all are.

Laura: Yeah, that I mean, don't get me wrong, you still have arguments and stuff, but it was all in the preparation. And it was, we knew I mean, so it is a 29th version rowing boat, right. So it's kind of the size of Greg Rutherford's, it's got the world record for the long jump, right? So it is, kind of, his long jump is the size of our boat. So it's a really small space. And then when you're cramped into the cabin, there's two of you. And if it's stormy, then all four of you are either in that or two in each cabin. So it's a tight, confined space. So it was really clear from the outset that this team had to be, we had to be cohesive, we had to be really transparent. And something I was particularly pedantic about was, I never want to leave a permanent issue. Like if there's an issue, we need to confront it, we will have to step forward into it. We can't, I don't want any bitchiness like, there was, that was always been, sort of my approach to most things. Like, I can't stand the whole talking to other people, rather than talking to the individual that you've got an issue with. You just need to step into that as much as it might feel uncomfortable.

And I guess, working in a performance context, we're scrutinised on a daily basis, you know. We're kind of everybody's asking you why what are you doing, you know, type stuff, you've got to justify, you feel like you're under a spotlight all the time. So you start to feel this kind of separation, you know, look kind of right. No, this is they're asking me that because of the person in front of us or the, you know, the end goal, that's what it's about. It's got nothing to do with me personally. We're just trying to optimise what we need to do. So when, my, I pulled this, the sort of the team came together, a lot of it, I was like, how do we stress test this, like, we have to stress test it because–

Lisa: Hell yeah.

Laura: –exactly. And that's where I, you know, I started working with Keith, the performance psychologist. I reached out to him so I was like, there's got to be more depth to this, you know, we need tools we need to I need to know what I'm going to draw on when I'm wanting to give up like, what's going to be my go-to’s, I'm going to, I need to know how I can respond and react to different personalities and stuff and how they're going to react to each other.

So Keith was the absolute rock to the success of our journey, in all honesty. I worked with him for four years and I still worked with him. I still work with him, sorry, to this day. And Keith, sort o—he enabled us to sort of understand the differences in our personalities from the basics of just doing psychometrics and stuff, but pretty in-depth ones. And then analyzing that a little bit more and playing it out in different scenarios, and then really forcing us to kind of do the round table. Yeah, because—and the girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. Yeah. So I just had to put myself in the barrier first. So I be like, ‘Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out'. ‘So this is what's not going so well. And this is not going so well. Right now give it back to me, hit me’, like because then as soon as I've given it they're happy to give it back to me because I think I'm being—yeah exactly. That's fine.

And then I would show them that I was learning from it because I was. And there was— I— they would call me, I would have Laura number one, Laura number two, my personalities. And they—I didn't realise that until sort of, you know, going through the row and they're like, ‘Oh my god, it's Laura number two'. And Laura number two is somebody that when she starts getting, like, tired, hungry, all of that gubbins and, and sort of just a bit over it, I start getting really assertive. I'm very tunnel vision, and my empathy just goes. Whereas normal time, like I've got heaps of the empathy, until it gets to a point…

Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So like me.

Laura: And so they’d be like, all right, Laura number two. Because we then had a language that was a little bit disconnected to the personal and it made a bit of fun of it, then we sort of were able to sort of take a pause, hear it and stuff.

But we had loads of loads of methodologies that we built, we'd worked on to try and get to that point. And that was sort of to the point with there, though, is that is not to say we didn't have any arguments, because we did like, I mean Nat and I, in particular, completely different personalities. She is like a, she's a beautiful character. She is Miss Mindful, she is in the moment, and she is just totally there. She's talking about the sky and the sea and the colours. Whereas I'm Miss Planner. Like I'm already in Cannes, I'm thinking about fear, I’m planning, and what do we need to do, what do we need to sort out? So, you know, when we did the team testing before, this was during selection of the team. I remember when I met Nat, I was like, ‘Oh, god, no, we are poles apart. There's just no way', you know because I was trying to see it through. I was only seeing it through my own lens of who I was getting a rapport with.

But I brought her onto the team testing weekend, which was, I'd gone to some ex-military guys. And I said, ‘Look, we need to be tested. I need to see what we're like when we're cold, we’re hungry, really sore, in pain. You need to physically push us. You need to mentally push us'. Well. And so we did like a 72-hour sleep depot type thing, you know, in the Brackens in Wales, yeah. On reflection that was like, yeah, that was it was great fun and obviously hated it during. I remember, like during it, sort of Nat in particular, as a personality that stood miles out because when she came on to it, I was thinking oh she can come along. But she's, I don't think that I’m going to be selecting her. And then Nat was the one that, you know, she might not have been the fittest. But even when she was struggling, and she was in pain, she had a sense of humour. When I was starting to struggle, she made me laugh. And I was like, ‘Oh my god, there's not many people that can do that while I'm in that space'.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: And I'm like, this isn't just about me. But for the comfort of the team, like we need that. Because otherwise, I will make this too serious. I will. When it gets into it, it will be too boring and serious. I need a sense of humour in this. And she is, she's got it in abundance. And she kept us at the moment.

Lisa: Wow, yep.

Laura: As well. Like, I needed that mindfulness when we're out to sea because otherwise, I wouldn't have remembered half the things that went on and I wouldn't have recognised and seen it.

Lisa: Isn't that amazing? So looking at the strengths and differences can actually end up being the thing that holds you together rather than pulls you apart.

Laura: A hundred percent.

Lisa: And I just think in this space I have to connect you with Paul Taylor, he will love you. He's a resilience expert that I was mentioning before and yeah, I think it when you have characters and I've started to do this just with for myself even now I have these different characters, you know, there's the good me and there's bad me and the good means like Wonder Woman, she can do anything and she's amazing.

And he has all these character traits that you know I aspire to and want to have and that side of me and then the other side's a real bitch, you know, she's a horrible, cynical, selfish person and those are both of me. And I know when you put this on—Paul talks about doing like cartoon characters and putting speech bubbles on them and actually giving them life and because it puts you outside of these characters that are fighting in your head, and you're trying to be that good one you want to be, but when you're hungry and cold and freezing, and you haven't slept in three days, and you're struggling somewhere, and God knows where. And you just want to go home and cry and hide under the covers and get mummy to give you a chicken soup. Well, you—it puts it outside of you, and it helps you see what you're doing.

And even in daily things like, you know, I've been rehabilitating my mum now for five years, seven days a week. And you know, beginning first three years, it was like eight hours a day. So it was just, it was full, full-on. And then even longer than that in the first year. And I catch myself sometimes being so short and irritable because I'm like trying to multitask and trying to run my businesses and she's waiting for me and you know, like, you just find yourself snapping at somebody when you just feel like, you know, that asshole is sure is present, you know, and you're just like listening to yourself going, ‘How the hell do I get a grip on this?’

We're all human. And we're all working on this. And, you know, I go to my mum and I put her in bed at night time and a cuddle. And tell her, I say, 'You know, I'm sorry for being a bitch today, Ma. I’m sorry for snapping at you'. And she's so lovely. She's like, 'Oh, that's all right'. Like, you know. But we have moments where we're just not nice, and when you're in these extreme circumstances fad, the ones that come out, and this is a part of the dynamic thing that I find really, really fascinating in that whole resilience and teamwork, and how do you bring it all together? So, you know, we're going to have to wrap up this one, because I've really enjoyed talking to you, Laura. But I really would like to have you on a couple of times, because I think there's much more to this actual story because we haven't even got to talking about well, what was it actually like to row? How did you, you know, do, what did you actually do on a daily basis? And how do you plan for such a thing? And how do you have such a big project and deal with it? And so I'm really glad that we've made this connection, and I'm very, very keen to have you on the show again, if you, because we've really just been part one, I think.

Laura: Let's see… No, I’ll be honoured to come back on. There’s so much I think we connect with in, and we can talk about for sure, especially in that headspace how we can be… What we've both learned from the experiences that we faced and continue to learn, I think is always an exciting journey.

Lisa: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, I'd be honoured to come back on it. It’s been great.

Lisa: That would be fantastic because I think also the work that you've done with Paralympians and, you know, people that have worked with disabilities and trauma, we haven't even unpacked that either. Because I think that, you know, we can learn a heck of a lot from people that have gone through, you know, all these dramas and so on, me, I learn every day from Mum, like, her mindset is just like, incredibly strong, resilient. And so I'd like to unpack some of that stuff as well. So Laura, thank you very much for your time today. I think you're a rock star, where can people find you? And where can they get involved in what you're doing? And, you know, do whatever you got available? Because you've got some really good lessons to share with people. So tell us where we can find you.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, on usual social media, sort of, the Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn, just @laurapenhaul. And that sort of, you know, P-E-N-H-A-U-L is my surname. So yeah, reach out to that we've also got our endurance book. So where we've sort of added science behind, kind of some of the endurance sort of focus is on GCN, which is a Global Cycling Network website, or our podcast is Endurance as well, which is where's Mark Beaumont, which I co-author on.

Lisa: So I'm very keen to meet and hopefully get on the show as well. Yeah, hook me up there.

Laura: Yeah, Keith will get you on that as well. I think you've got a lot to add and share their experiences for sure.

Lisa: I'd love to. That would be an absolute honor. Laura, you're one hell of a strong woman. I can't wait to see where you go and in the future in what you know, what you take on. God forbid is probably going to be big, and thank you for sharing. I think you have such great knowledge to share with people and you have a duty to get that information out there because this is the sort of stuff that helps people. So thank you very much for your time today Laura.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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When people think about today’s guest, tenacity is probably the first word that comes to mind. Everything she accomplished today stems from her unwavering self-belief and deep understanding that you must also take care of yourself. Through this perspective, she has taught herself and countless others how to overcome challenges. And like her, we’ve encountered countless adversities. We’ve all been in a place of anger, frustration, guilt or sadness.

How do we begin to accept and love ourselves and learn to grow from it?

In this week’s episode, Kim Morrison joins us to teach us all about self-love. She shares how she questioned human existence and purpose after a life-changing event and what we should be asking ourselves whenever we go through intense emotions. Kim also tells us how to overcome challenges and trauma, and discusses different helpful processes like hypnosis.

If you want to find out how to overcome challenges, achieve self-love and accomplish your goals, then tune in to this episode!

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Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless.

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how to overcome challenges. 2. Discover the things you need to work on and achieve self-love. 3. Learn about goal setting and the importance of aligning it with your values.

Episode Highlights [05:57] A Little Bit About Kim * Kim grew up in New Zealand. She’s married to Danny Morrison, a former cricketer and fast-paced bowler.

  • Their world turned upside down when they lost a sister to suicide. They then lost their house and a lot of money that they had invested.

  • Seeing her husband go through a world of emotions made Kim question what makes humans tick and why we struggle and go through such tough times.

  • This led her to write several books around essential oils and started her passion for plants, aromatherapy, and connection to nature.

  • Lately, she has been interested in mind work like neuro-linguistic programming and hypnosis.

[10:09] What She’s Learned in the Past Years * You are the result of the five people with whom you spend the most time.

  • We can have a significant event happen in our lives that causes us emotional trauma. Depending on our filter system and body physiology, it then affects our behaviour.

  • A fascinating thing Kim found out is that the meaning we put into our early childhood can then affect what our lives become.

  • When you have awareness around it, you can undo this.

  • What happens to you does not matter. What matters is your reaction and perception of it.

[18:44] How Trauma Affects Us * Humans are made up of 50 trillion cells, and every one of those cells is communicating.

  • Unconsciously, so much is happening in our body because of homeostasis.

  • It takes time, effort, energy and real work on how to overcome challenges presented by trauma.

  • You must seek professional help. There’s also a lot of free services out there.

  • You need to take the time to take care of yourself.

[24:02] How to Overcome Challenges * Most people’s excuses for why they do not work on themselves are time and money, but those are not true. In truth, it is about whether or not you make yourself a priority.

  • Own up to your emotions with power instead of having a victim mentality.

  • To have a friend who is a good listener, or to be that friend, is one of the best fast-track pathways to self-care.

  • Lastly, to learn how to overcome challenges, you need discipline.

  • Life has its highs and lows, and if we can come to accept that, then that is self-love. To heal, we have to truly feel our emotions.

[33:35] The Reticular Activating System and Goal Setting * The reticular activating system is a part of our brain that stores memories. It has filters and a whole belief system.

  • We receive 2 million bits of information every day, but we only have access to 136 bits.

  • Sometimes, your goal does not match your value.

  • You have to have your goal aligned with your top three values. To do this, you need to do some work.

  • What we believe, perceive and focus on is where our energy goes. If our goals aren’t aligned, we look for excuses to not accomplish them.

[43:23] The Hypnosis Process * Hypnosis is about tapping directly into the unconscious mind.

  • When someone uses hypnotic language, it puts us into a subconscious trance.

  • Your mind can then go on a journey, and we can tap into the heart space. It allows us to bypass the critical factor and create change.

  • When you come out to the other side, you see possibility and opportunity instead of negativity.

  • Breath is the essence of life. When we go into a state of hypnosis, we are letting go of the breath and accessing our energy.

[50:37] Our Perception of the World * Everything we have ever experienced is just a belief or a perception; it is never the truth.

  • If we imagine the world from someone else’s perspective, we gain more understanding.

  • Every time you feel yourself going into a place of anger, frustration, guilt, or sadness, ask yourself, ‘For what purpose am I feeling this?’ or simply ask, ‘Why?’

[56:47] On Negative Thoughts * As negative thoughts enter your mind, ask seven whys. * We often have two characters in our head, one who is positive and another who is negative. * If you ask the seven why’s to those characters, you will find out that both have the same purpose – to protect you.

Resources * Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! * The Art of Self Love by Kim Morrison * Self Love Podcast with Kim Morrison * Learn with Kim on Kim Morrison Training * Join Kim’s Self-Love & Wellness Mentorship program with this special offer! * Twenty8 Essentials: Website | Facebook * Connect with Kim: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter * The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell * The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton * The Wim Hof Method * Breath by James Nestor * The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown * Change Your Brain, Change Your Life by Dr Daniel G. Amen * The Secret by Rhonda Byrne * Pushing the Limits Episode 180 - Breathing as the Key to Better Health with James Nestor * Pushing the Limits Episode 182 - Science Behind Nasal Breathing and How to Breathe Better with Patrick McKeown * Pushing the Limits Episode 190 - How to Build Resilience and Get Control of Your Biology with Paul Taylor

7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode ‘And the thing I love about it is that when you realise it and have an awareness around who you are and what you've been doing, the world becomes your oyster, and we stop blaming; we stop becoming the victim, we stop being in denial, we stop making excuses for our life. And we actually take accountability, responsibility and ownership for every single thing.’

‘And I say that with a disclaimer, that it's really important that in these times of worry and fear and stress and overwhelm, that you seek help. If you're feeling like your world is closing in, you're not your own coach; you’re not your own best coach; your partner's not necessarily the best coach or mentor for you through these times, neither are your parents. So sometimes we need professional help.’

‘Often, as we talk it to someone that's listening, truly listening without trying to fix us. When you're listening, we often talk through the process out loud because I believe all humans have all traits. And all humans have all resources within them to help heal themselves. But sometimes we just need to hear it.’

‘And if we could just understand that it's at our darkest times, we actually are revealed. Your strength comes through your courage, your determination, your tenacity, your resilience is what shows up.’

‘So we know that life is ebb and flow, high and low, in and out, dark and light. If we can come to accept that, then that is self-love.’

‘So the important thing to realise is that you have to have your goal aligned with your top three values. And if it's not aligned with any of your top three values, you're going to need some integration work to bring it up there if it's something you really want. Because otherwise, that's where the excuses come in.’

‘Just keep your mind stimulated with possibility. Because it's through the possibility we have grown, and through the growth we become way more powerful individuals. And with that, we start to then look at our higher purpose, and what legacy are we going to leave in this life.’

About Kim Kim Morrison is a speaker, author, facilitator, health and lifestyle educator, self-love expert and entrepreneur. She set the world record as the youngest female to run 100 miles in less than 24 hours in 1983.

Kim has been an Aromatherapist for 27 years. She has diplomas in Holistic Aromatherapy, Sport and Remedial Therapies, Fitness Leadership and Homeobotanical Therapies in Melbourne and New Zealand. She is also a qualified Personality Trainer and completed studies in nutrition, reflexology and counselling. In 2009, Kim launched her company, Twenty8 Essentials.

To learn more about Kim, visit her website. Check out her podcast and connect with her on Instagram as well!

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about how to overcome challenges through self-love.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing The Limits with your host Lisa Tamati. Today I have the lovely, dear friend, Kim Morrison, to guest. Kim is an absolute sweetheart. She's a speaker. She's a six-times author, a facilitator, health and lifestyle educator, podcaster herself. She is a self-love expert. And there's so much more to come than meets the eye. She's an absolute gorgeous woman inside and out. Tenacity is probably the first word that comes to mind. In her journey and all she’s accomplished today have all stemmed from her unwavering self-belief and her deep understanding that you must also take care of yourself first and foremost. She recently wrote a book called The Art of Self-Love, which I encourage you to check out after you've listened to this podcast. Kim is also, she’s an entrepreneur, she owns the company Twenty8 Essentials with essential oils. She does a lot of mentoring, especially with women's empowerment. She has her own podcast. She's also a world record holder as the youngest female to run 100 miles in less than, in 24 hours. So she's a very amazing athlete and mother. She's also the wife of Danny Morrison, the famous cricketer, and she's just an absolute legend. She's been through a lot in her life, and she shares in this episode a lot of her learnings along the way so I do hope you enjoy the episode with Kim.

Before I head over to the show, just want to let you guys know we've just launched our premium membership for the podcast. If you love Pushing the Limits, if you love what we stand for, if you'd like to support the show and get a whole lot of extra benefits as premium members, and the list is long on the extra benefits, then I would love you to hop on over to patron.lisatamati.com. That's patron.lisatamati.com and become one of our VIP members. One of our premium members that supports the podcast and the work that we do, and helps us keep getting this great content out there and get a whole lot of benefits, as you know to be a part of this exclusive club. So we're really, really stoked to get that up off the ground and we really appreciate your support. Of course, if you give us a rating and review for the shows too, that would be absolutely fabulous, and share it with your family and friends. We put a lot of effort into this. Sometimes some of the guests we have, top scientists, top doctors and researchers. It takes often many weeks to prepare for an interview and a lot of study, a lot of reading, a lot of books and also chasing celebrity guests and people that are of note that are hard to get hold of. So if you want me to be able to keep doing this work, I’d really appreciate your support over at patron.lisatamati.com.

And while we're on that note, if you're into interesting reads, please check out my three books I have Running Hot, Running To Extremes which both chronicle my adventures running around the world doing lots of crazy stuff, succeeding, failing, having lots of fun and experiences and disasters along the way. So if you like a good novel, well, not a novel, they're actually autobiographies. But if you'd like good running stories and adventures then please check those out. And my latest book, Relentless: How a Mother and Daughter Defied the Odds is available on my website as well as on Amazon and IngramSpark and all the audiobooks and all of those sorts of places as well as Book Depository. You name it, it's out there. That one’s called Relentless and it's the story of bringing my mum back after a massive aneurysm left her with hardly any higher brain function, in a diagnosis where the medical professionals were telling me there was no way back for her at the age of 74, the brain damage was just too massive. They were wrong. This book is about empowering people. This is what this whole podcast is about. And what my whole life is about is taking control of your health, being preventative, educating yourself, and looking outside the square and connecting with the right people and, doing all that sort of stuff. So I'd love you to go and grab that book. And please share it too with your friends. If you like the book, get them to buy a copy too and help support the book. Getting it out there, and reviews and ratings for the book are really helpful too on either goodreads.com or you can just email me. I'd also love to hear from you if you are enjoying the podcast. Reach out to us if you've got any questions around any of the topics that we've brought up. We'd love to engage with you on support@lisatamati.com. Right well, now we'll go over to the lovely Kim who I absolutely treasure. She's a wonderful woman. I do hope You enjoy this podcast with Kim Morrison.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to pushing the limits. Today I have one of my very dear friends Kim Morrison back on the show. Kim, welcome to Pushing the Limits again.

Kim Morrison: Such a treat to be with you, my friend.

Lisa: We're just being ravishing. We couldn't stop talking to actually get the recording done, because we just got so much to like, (blah blah noise).

Kim: We almost should have recorded what we just created.

Lisa: All the cool people we've got to meet. I've got to introduce you to this person and this person. So yeah, we love swapping and collaborating and doing lots of crazy things.

So Kim, for those of you who don't know, you and most people should because you're world-famous and you're the author of six books. You're a mum, you're—you have your own amazing company. But tell us a little bit about Kim Morrison. Who’s Kim Morrison? Where are you sitting at the moment?

Kim: On the Sunshine Coast. World-famous and world tellers is what I’d say. I'm here on the Sunshine Coast. Obviously a kiwi, grew up in New Zealand, married Danny Morrison, a former New Zealand cricketer, fast-paced bowler and we had an incredible life. Then our world got turned upside down when sadly we lost a sister to suicide. And then Danny went through his own world of emotions. And as you can imagine being a top international athlete, to now a father of two, a mortgage, losing a sister, and then we lost our house. Then we lost a whole lot of money that we'd invested. All of a sudden, I think Danny started to question who the frick he was.

To watch that as a wife, a partner and someone that you love kept pushing me further down the rabbit hole and understanding what makes us tick. Why do people struggle? Why do people go through tough times? What is the meaning of it? So that took me on a journey after writing a number of books around essential oils. My passion was plants and aromatherapy and our connection to nature. And I've really, I've dabbled in a whole lot of things like nutrition and home-botanical therapy. And then lately, in the last few years, probably since writing my book, The Art of Self-Love, it's really been a quest, the last, six to ten years on, again, why do we have to go through tough times? And what does it actually mean?

So lately, I've been doing a whole lot of mind work around things like neuro-linguistic programming, hypnosis, and really getting to understand how we tick and what makes us put meaning into life situations which then can calibrate into our physiology, which then calibrates into our immunology, which then calibrates into our health and wellness.

It's been a really cool journey. Lots of ups, lots of downs. I'm not sitting here saying my life's been easy. I've been through a lot of downs myself. And knowing that often hitting the rock bottom parts of life, whilst you're in it, the worst thing is to think that there's a lesson in this. ‘Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be coming out so amazing’ when you're in the throes of it. If someone even suggests that you're going to have come out of–

Lisa: Both!

Kim: Yeah, exactly. But we all know when we look back on our lives, dear Lisa, there is always a learning, there is always an opportunity for growth. But you can take it one of two ways you can turn it into a power part of your life or a petty part of your life. You can become the victor or the victim. And that's where I love working with people who choose the victor strategy. How do I learn from this?

Lisa: Wow, the victor strategy. You either become a victim or a victor. I love it. It's just so beautifully put. We've both been through rocky roads and most people have, if you get to our age. You've had some shit thrown at you. Some of your own doing some not your own doing. And okay, what can we learn out of this? And how can we grow from this so that we just are able to carry on and we were talking before about the journey I've been on with losing my dad six months ago or seven months ago and how, trying to stand back up from that. Trying to make something positive out of the horrific situation which is still too fresh to fully have that formed. But it will be his legacy. He will have a legacy because of this. And I believe that he's helping me on the other side. I'm pretty damn sure of that. That he's making things happen and the good time. But we all go through these things and we all go through times where we think ‘I can't get up again'.

So you've written a book called The Art of Self-Love. You do a heck of a lot. You have a podcast all around the space of loving yourself. And this isn't just whoo-whoo stuff. This is real stuff. This is like, how do I accept myself? Love myself? Learn from this? Grow from this? You've had some amazing people on your show, some amazing guests. What are some of the things that you've learned just in the last year working on your podcasts and so on?

Kim: It's been phenomenal. I think the biggest thing that I love is you are the result of the five people you spend your most time with. So that includes family, and sometimes that can be tough. Therefore, the most important thing of all is—look, we can have a significant event happen in our lives that can bring us to our knees, which causes a whole lot of emotional trauma. Then we perceive that event. Then depending on our upbringing, our circumstances, our values, our beliefs, our meta-programs. How we generalize, distort and delete things. How we actually filter for what we're thinking of that meaning. Then creates a physiology within the body, which then creates a state, and then our emotions come out, which then drives our behaviour.

So it's fascinating, and the way I can explain this is if you grew up with siblings, and you had the privilege of having, say, the same mom and dad the whole way through. If you asked each of the siblings what they thought of their childhood, you may find a very different perception or meaning of what they've put onto that. And that's based on the filter system.

We all know that between the ages of naught and seven is pretty much the imprinting stage. So whatever happens usually in those naught to seven years, we create meaning. We're an absorber of information. So if you grew up with a mom that was frantic and full-on and was doing the best she could. Let's face it, everybody's done the best they could with the resources they have or don't have. But let's say that you heard, as a little four-year-old girl, your mom and dad fighting one night. They were having an argument, and let's say it was about money. Maybe your dad just lost his job. But as a four-year-old, you don't understand all of this. But you come to the door because you're worried you can hear and it doesn't feel real. And then your dad says to you, ‘Go away. This is not to do with you’. Or says something that you've heard it in a way that now means you'd now go into your room, you calibrate that into your physiology, that the next time a male or a man shouts, you've taken it to mean, perhaps you're not good enough, or it's your fault.

Now you can imagine throughout your life now, you start building scenarios. Your reticular activation system is now on alert. That now every time you hear a man or a male, argue, or fight, or scream, or yell or have anger, you’re now drawn to it. So you're now filtering for it. Because on the other side of that, because to have a problem, you also have to not have a problem. Or to have heat, you also have to have cold to understand the polarities of that. You now also know that to look for love in your life, you're now going to look for the polarity opposite of that, which is mean yelling. Or maybe it could be in the form of your boss. It could be in the form of a teacher. It could be in the form of a friend.

Lisa: You're going to be a travel expert.

Kim: So it fascinates me, Lisa, that the meaning we put into our early childhood can then become what our life becomes or doesn't become. Now the cool thing about that is when you have awareness around it, you can also undo this. If you've had the physiology or a life of not having great relationships, and you've never. If we could take you back through hypnosis or through different timeline strategies, and we can get you back to the place where you first put meaning and had a limiting belief around that, then we can easily take the lessons from it, learn it, and undo everything. And it's not about unwinding or stopping those memories. It's not about that. It's just realizing why you've created a certain behaviour to have that result. And the thing I love about it is that when you realize it and have an awareness around who you are and what you've been doing, the world becomes your oyster. And we stop blaming, we stop becoming the victim, we stop being in denial, we stop making excuses for our life. And we actually take accountability, responsibility and ownership for every single thing.

Now that means we're things that happened to us like you just said. So again, it doesn't matter what happens to you. It's your reaction to it that matters. It's how you perceive it that matters. Because we can't control their outside world as much as we've tried to change partners and kids and parents and families and friends. As much as we've tried to change people, do any of us want to be changed or told we're doing it wrong? Probably not. So it actually teaches you a way on how to perceive it in a way that you do it with love. And as far as I'm concerned, I can speak to the biggest scientists on the planet. I can speak to the most intelligent humans on this planet. And ultimately it all comes back to us desiring the ability to love and be loved.

Lisa: There is a whole purpose of us being here, I'm pretty damn sure of it. But if, without getting into the whole spiritual silence, what I've been looking at—wWhen you lose a loved one, you start looking at what's on the other side, and what is the reason of life. And I do think it is all connected to love. That is so fascinating.

I just met a Dr Don Ward, who I'm going to introduce you to, who works with trauma, and people who have been through trauma. And he said we have this like—talks about the reticular activating system and how we filter for things. I can so relate to that analogy that you gave there. And he gave a story in his life with his wife who'd had a difficult childhood and a dad who would do a lot of yelling. So then he said his wife was hyper-vigilant to that in his voice, even if he just said, ‘Oh, I don't like that’, and she would immediately be filtering for that. ‘What have I doing wrong’? because of that fear response that was already programmed into her.

He talks about taking these memories. It could be a minor trauma, but it ends up being a big thing that you frame yourself for and limit your beliefs. And I think, like, when you're a child, you don't have that understanding of, mum might have been just a bit stressed and told you ‘you're just a naughty little girl', And then you've just taken that away, and I'm a bad person. Forever and a day, now it's in my life. It can be that simple. And yet it was just mum having a bad day and was a bit stressed and yelled at you, which really shouldn't have had that impact. And as an adult, you wouldn't have taken that. But as a child, you've not been able to filter that.

So what he does, and also with big trauma, he's worked with lots of vets and people that have been blown up and bombs and lost legs and horrible things. He says, you have this memory that is in High Definition movie. And it's trauma, right? And it’s so real and vivid in your memory banks. And anything can trigger it. So it might be a song or smell, a person, an event, and it will just, you're immediately back there in that trauma, and you're reliving it. That creates an emotional response in the body. And what he does through his program is similar to what the hypnosis, I imagine, is take that high definition movie and turn it into a black-and-white picture that's still in your brain, but no longer causes a physiological response because we get stuck in this loop. We're looping around those thoughts and that experience and experiencing it in real-time because your brain doesn't differentiate if this was 20 years ago or it's now. If you think back to a horrible event in your life, that was really traumatic feeling for you, you will have all of those physiological responses in real-time right now because the brain doesn't know. You're actually bringing it out into your body.

And this is where the whole thing about psycho-neuro-immunology comes into it. Where everything that's going on in our brain is fixed and is stuck in our biology and expresses through our biology. And you've obviously been deeper into this world than I have of late. I'm really just scratching the surface. But how do you think that affects us from a health perspective?

Kim: If you think we are made up of 50 trillion cells, and every one of those cells is communicating and it's got a whole incredible unconscious way of sustaining life. And when we think about it consciously, I mean, you're not thinking about your left finger now growing right now, although you might be now because I brought attention to it. But unconsciously so much is happening because of the programming, because of the ability of the body to do what it does and create what we call homeostasis.

So if you have a traumatic experience, and you get triggered by that, let's say, well, I've got a girlfriend who was in—sadly, her story's amazing, I'll get you to get her on your podcast. But basically, she lost her fiance to suicide. She was so traumatized, but within a year, she just couldn't get over it so she decided, on his one year anniversary, she'd go to Bali to take her life.

She had two girl friends who knew that she wasn't right so they went with her. That night, they went out to the Sari Club, and we all may be aware of the Bali bombings that went off. Now, one minute Karen's thinking of going to Bali to take her life. The next minute she is pushed through a burning wall and running for her life. So her physiology—and by the way, she lost her two friends out of that experience so now she feels responsible for three people stiff.

So you can imagine for her what that meant, and her story is phenomenal as she goes into a world of six years of depression. Now what brings her out of it is obviously a lot of self-work. But her dad talking about, his nickname for her as Buffy. And he says to her, he had her on his knee, she's a woman in her late 30s at this point, and he has her sitting on her knee and says ‘Buffy, we've all got to—some time, the caterpillar has got to go through a transformational process to come out the other side and become the butterfly’. And, for some reason, maybe he’s been saying it for those six years, but for some reason, on that day, she heard it. And she has gone on this exploratory path of what is it that has us physiologically turned into this thing called depression. And these are her words, not mine. She believes depression is a choice. So she says you go to sleep every night, you fall asleep, you might be depressed as you fall asleep but as you go to sleep into the unconscious part of sleep, you are no longer depressed. But the minute, not the minute, the moment you wake up, you're not depressed, until the memory kicks in, of who you are, your story in your life, and now all of a sudden, you're living depression.

I'm not undermining depression for anyone listening. And I'm certainly not an expert in that field. But I found it interesting that she feels depression is a choice. So when you think about that, your biology, and what's happening at a physiological level like you say, at a cell level, if you are believing—and by the way, the reason why I said that is if a balloon popped, or champagne cork went off, the explosion of that triggered her exactly into that time and place. So it takes time, effort and energy and real work on self to overcome these traumas.

Now we're not born with a rulebook or a guide book. And our parents aren’t born with a book on how to help us psychologically. We're all traversing this pathway with the best that we possibly can. And so I share that in the hope and realisation that for many of us, suicide is not the answer. And I say that with a disclaimer, that it's really important that in these times of worry and fear and stress and overwhelm, that you seek help if you're feeling like your world is closing in. You're not your own coach. You're not your own best coach. Your partner's not necessarily the best coach or mentor for you through these times. Neither are your parents. So sometimes we need professional help.

And what I love about these days is, if you're seeing a psychologist, in my mom's day, you're seen as a little bit weak. Whereas today, I think you're seen as profoundly intelligent, emotionally intelligent to get that support. So whether it's hypnosis, aroma-therapy, psychology, NLP, getting a coach, getting a mentor, it doesn't matter what it is. And there's a lot of free help out there. If you search it in podcasts like this, that really dive into one realm if you go down the science link, but my real passion sits in the heart space. And if you love who you are, then I believe you have awareness when you're not in love with yourself. And if you take care of yourself, then we know that that helps you one step, one moment, one breath at a time. You're better off, doing something nice for yourself making a green smoothie than you are drinking a bottle of wine. I'm not saying that a bottle of wine with a girl friend and pouring your heart out and having a good cry isn't healthy. But it’s not your crutch. Anything can become a crutch too.

Lisa: It’s not to become your crutch, right? Anything can become an addiction.

Kim: An addiction is not a great place to be either. So we know that if you can find a way one step, one breath at a time. Whether it's free, or if you have the money to invest. And let's face it, most people's biggest excuses for why they don't work on themselves is time and money. And I'm here to tell you that I think it's absolute bullshit, that it's not time and money. It's about whether or not you make yourself a priority because we all know if you, let me say this to your listeners. If someone that you loved was hanging off a cliff, and that means that in order to save them you had to have a weekly message until the end of this year. To save them you would find the time and the money to do it. Now that might seem a bit extreme. But I promise you when you are faced like you have been with your mum and your dad, everything goes aside until you put that at the forefront. So it's about prioritization and the moment you–.

Lisa: And I’m not even feeling guilty for it.

Kim: Except when we look at guilt, sometimes that, even that emotion of guilt is an interesting one. So we feel guilt because we're doing something for ourselves, which is taking away from something else perhaps. And even that's interesting.

So when I look at the emotion of guilt, it's because we're doing something maybe selfishly. Well, what if we could reframe that into investing in ourselves. As a mum, putting a child into daycare, or having a babysitter every now and again so that you can go out or going for a weekly massage? If we look at that as guilt, if you really look at this—this is something interesting and I just want you to think about this. That lot of guilt is it that we're using that as a frame to hide the fact that some days being a mother is fricking hard work. And some days, we actually may hate it. And some days, maybe we are so exhausted, so mentally, physically, emotionally exhausted that we hate it so much. That we then feel bad because we've yelled, we've screamed, we've not been the best version of ourselves. And then we put it into mother guilt. We frame it in that where some days, we just fricking—we don't like it.

I think if we could own those emotions more and own the fact that it doesn't feel great some days, own up but with power, not victim mentality, then I think we would actually be more honest. And we would actually say, that's when I always say, have a bestie that you can call who's not going to go into the gossip-victim mentality, but the ‘I'm hearing you girlfriend’. And then at the end of that, you say, ‘What do you want to do about it? And what's your purpose for this belief, or this feeling right now? And what can you learn from it’? To have a girlfriend or a mate or partner or a friend who says ‘What can we learn from this’? is one of the best friends you could have in your corner. That is psychotherapy and psychology at its best.

What can you learn from this? And sometimes it's very hard to look at the lessons when you're in the throes of it and when emotions are high, intelligence is very low. So that might not be the question that we ask when someone's highly volatile and emotional. But to be a good listener, to hear someone pour their heart out. Often as we talk it to someone that's listening, truly listening without trying to fix us. When you're listening, we often talk through the process out loud, because I believe all humans have all traits and all humans have all resources within them to help heal themselves. But sometimes we just need to hear it. And I don't know about you, Lisa, but sometimes as I'm talking through my problem, I realize how stupid it is, or how benign it sounds. Or how relatively benign it is compared to what someone else is going through. So to have a good listening friend, or to be that listening friend, is sometimes one of the best fast track pathways into self-care which motorizes you right into the heart of self-love.

Here's my third thing. I'm gonna put a caveat on that. That takes discipline. Without discipline, you can care for yourself and go on to the airy fairy land of woe and spirituality, and, oh, my gosh, this is all teaching me lots without responsibility, then that is not serving you. The discipline of waking up every day and physically doing something with that beautiful vehicle of yours with 50 trillion cells. Whether it's five minutes of tricep dips and push-ups just in your bedroom before you get dressed. Whether it's going for a 30-minute walk. Whether it's push and pushing yourself. We know the physiology of pushing the body actually puts you out of your comfort zone, which changes your cell structure. And when you change that, you get more clarity. And when you have more clarity, you make better decisions.

As you get to know yourself more and understand the triggers in your life, your responses, the victim mentality, you start to realize that you don't stop having problems, you just have bigger problems, Lisa. So you might be having a problem that's, ‘I'm not sure whether I should run in the Gold Coast hinterland this weekend because I've got the weekend off’ or whether your problem is trying to emotionally deal with the fact that your father never told you he loved you. Well, they're both problems. But I can tell you which problem I'd rather be traversing and working out. Because I've worked out the fact that maybe, and this isn't me personally, but my dad didn't tell me he loved me or maybe I experienced a very significant abuse. Or maybe I had a traumatic experience that now I'm working on to understand what it means to me.

I think you'd agree with me. Every person you've had on your podcast or every person you've ever met, the ones we admire and love the most are the ones that have actually gone to hell and back. But they've found a way out. It's the comeback story. Google and The Hero’s Journey by Joseph Campbell. It's a six minute video to watch. We all go through The Hero's Journey where we want adventure, we want to go out on a limb, we want to do things. But then we find dragons and people putting us down or pulling us out. And then we traverse through that hardship, and we come out battered and beaten and torn and spat out.

But as we come through that we realize the adventure becomes amazing treasure. And through the treasures we find, we expand and evolve. And as we expand and evolve, we become a better human. And we then go on a new adventure. There’s more dragons. There's more people spitting on us and things. But that is the circle of life, right. If we could just understand that it's at our darkest times, we actually are revealed. Your strength comes through, your courage, your determination, your tenacity, your resilience is what shows up. Or you have the potential to discover when we go through it. Because when life's great, it's great. We don't tend to push ourselves so much when it's great. And that's the cool thing, we get to have a rest when life's great.

Lisa: I always say this to people when I'm speaking.

Kim: I say this with hand on heart, to those of you going through a tough time I have something for you—this too shall pass.

Lisa: One of my favourite sayings of the world.

Kim: Absolutely. And then I also say to those of you in a really good place in your life, I've got some advice for you—this too shall pass. So we know that life is ebb and flow, high and low, in and out, dark and light. If we could come to accept that, then that is self-love. That is realising that actually when life's good, I'm going to learn more. I'm going to listen to different podcasts. I'm going to maybe study something. I'm going to read something. And I say read, not on a technology thing, I mean read a book. I’m going to immerse myself. I'm going to go to a retreat or a breakthrough. I'm going to take on coaching and mentoring. Because we don't want to just be great versions of ourselves, we want to be exceptional versions of ourselves.

And to do that, it's great to work on ourselves when life's great. Because then when the life hits us or the storm, or I'll say you either get a tap, a whack or a Mack. You'll get a tap when someone taps you or something upsets you. You'll get a whack when maybe you're thrown off guard or you've lost your job or your relationships over. We get a Mack Truck, major illness, losing someone, and it sideswipes you to the point where you're on your knees and you can't breathe. But if you've got those tools of resilience inside of you, or you know where to go as you breathe through each moment.

And let's face it, in order to heal it, you truly have to feel it. So that means we can't hide the emotions from any of these. Or that we say ‘Oh, everything's great’ when it's fricking not. Owning it with power and not telling your story as a victim is painful. But owning it and then saying but you know what I'm seeing someone or I'm doing this or I'm using my oils or listening to this podcast with Lisa Tamati. And I've literally met this amazing supplement that I think is actually going to work for me right now. Whatever you hear, don't take it for granted. And always trust that what you're hearing in the moment is a beautiful sign. There's always signs and opportunity of growth, passion, love and development. It just means that what your reticular activation system is filtering for. And whether you're looking for the good or more of the shit that you've just been through.

Lisa: Explain that RAS, Kim. What is it?

Kim: Well, we know there's a part of the brain that has memories. It has filters. It has this whole belief system. But let's look at it this way. What's your favourite car? Or what's a car you dream to own if you don't have it right now?

Lisa: Probably…

Kim: You’re not really probably not that materialistic.

Lisa: I drive around in a 20-year-old car. Let's just say a Ferrari just for the sake of… A red Ferrari.

Kim: A red Ferrari. Sometimes we could call that a penis extinction or a mid-life crisis awakening. But anyway, what's a nice car you like?

Lisa: Oh, I like Jaguars.

Kim: Jaguars. Let’s go with that. And what colour?

Lisa: A wine-coloured one.

Kim: Ah, wine-coloured. So that beautiful burgundy wine-coloured Jaguar?

Lisa: Yeah, not very common, probably. So probably not a good example. But you know what I mean?

Kim: However, it's now in your mindset. It's now in your memory. It's now in your reticular activation system. It's now a part—it’s become out of the 2 million bits of information we receive each day, we actually only have access to 136 bits. So I want you to think about that 2 million bits of information that is coming at you. But we are actually only able to process 136 in our consciousness. Because if you think about it, to access and process 2 million bits we'd be in constant burnout and overwhelm. So those 136 bits now we've just been spoken about a burgundy coloured Jaguar. That's come really close into the forefront of your reticular activation system. So you may find over the next 24 - 48 hours, you might just happen to see one. That's because you're now filtering for it.

You've got 136 bits of that seed. And particularly if we put it to the front of our values, and it became a value. Let's say, car’s not necessarily a high value. But being able to transport yourself or take people to and from places or you love adventure, and travelling. You have a real high value for adventure, a car is part of that. And so now, adventure is one of the highest values on your list of life values. Within that, if we dig deeper is the burgundy-coloured Jaguar. Now you're actually going to see it every time you're thinking of adventure. You might think now, actually ‘Bloody dammit, I've worked really hard, I deserve this’. And now all of a sudden, you start seeing ads for Jaguars or you start thinking. That's what we mean about pulling in the 136 bits of information into the reticular activation system. And now you're seeing it, now you're proving it.

Lisa: And this is why goal setting works, isn't it. Because you've set a goal. You've made that as a priority. So it's a scary one. And then everything that will help you get towards your goal, your subconscious is picking up those things and then saying, ‘hey, be aware of this’. So if you decide you want to run a marathon, it's probably a good example with us two crazy runners. Or ex-crazy runners. You start seeing articles about running and videos on running. You'll be aware of runners running around your neighbourhood that you might have ignored before because suddenly this has become a goal.

So your brain is going, ‘Oh, you wanted this? Well, I'm just making you aware. Here's some tools to get there’. So that's a really good example of the RAS selection really.

Kim: You got to remember too, and I want to make this really clear, it's something that I've learned just lately. If you have a goal to run a marathon, and it's really high in your priorities. You start off in the first week, and you're doing the pro there's maybe a 12-week program. Maybe they're doing one of your the Neal's program. Maybe they've got one of these things. And they’re in week one. They're highly enthusiastic and excited. Week two, they’re a bit sore. It’s hurting a bit, and they have DOMS setting in and now it's like it's not getting easier. In fact, the more you train, the more you realize that even though you don't realize you're getting better and stronger, you're pushing yourself more. And, so you're feeling worse. So by week three, usually within those 21 days, we're starting to go maybe a marathon isn't the goal at all. Or you still keep saying it's a marathon but now you're not going out for the longer run. Now what's happened is your goal is not matching your value.

Now, this is the real essence of the work. How do we make running a marathon one of your highest values? If I listed all your values, you may find health or adventure or pushing the limits or expanding yourself is number 10 on the list.

Lisa: And therefore won't get–

Kim: It's not gonna get done. Which is why so many of us, we set New Year's goals. We join a gym, we go along. And then we basically make a donation to that gym for the rest of the year. So the important thing to realize is that you have to have your goal aligned with your top three values. And if it's not aligned with any of your top three values, you're going to need some integration work to bring it up there if it's something you really want. Because otherwise, that's where the excuses come in or you get an injury. Was it an injury? Or was your subconscious mind delivering you the possibilities that you didn't have to do it? I find health and injuries and disease, and all of those things.

I think if you've read Bruce Lipton's book, The Biology of Belief, you'll know that what we believe we perceive. Where focus goes, energy flows. So if you have all of these things in your mind, if your focus is now on all sore and injury and it's too hard, I don't want to do it. Bang! You're going to find your energy goes that way. It flows that way. And hello, now you've got a reason, an excuse to physically pull out of the marathon. So you know, people would say ‘oh, no, I didn't mean to trip over the washing basket'. Well, how come for the last 365 days, the washing basket could have been there but you never–

The unconscious mind is one of the most powerful places to work, which is why I love hypnosis. Which is why I love timeline therapy. Which is why I love getting into. If you look at a mountain, the snow part on the top is your conscious mind. But in fact, everything underneath which is driving your behaviour, is driving your feelings, your beliefs and your values is actually the tip of the iceberg. That's right 95% of it is definitely coming from the unconscious mind.

Lisa: Yeah, and this is why we need to do the deep work. You just reminded me of a couple of things. Everytime that I do a big mess of a race in the past, I would get sick, or I'd have an injury or something would happen. And usually in the week or two weeks before the actual event. It was like my body's going, ‘I'm gonna stop you because I want you’... A part of me doesn't want to do it’. So you’re going to chuck a few obstacles.

You have to understand that when you override that, and you keep going, often that injure or that niggle, whatever that was, disappears. I saw that, firsthand, time and time again. And even when I was running through New Zealand, and I was doing 70Ks a day, and I was getting weaker and sicker and really, just absolutely blown apart after two weeks. And I didn't stop though, because I had an amazing team and I had a big why. Why I was doing this: charities and big responsibilities, so I keep going despite horrific pain and all the rest of it. Then my body went, ‘Oh, it's just not stopping, we better get on board with this’. And it got stronger and stronger. From the two-week point up until the six-week point, I actually got stronger and stronger. And I thought that it's all over. I could have a walking stick. I was walking, I wasn't running. I was having to go down sideways downhills, because my shins were so bad. And when I still kept going, then the brain went, ‘Well, we better get on with it because she's not going to stop, obviously’. And that's a really good example.

One of the other things I wanted to bring up because motivation follows action, not the other way around. So like when you don't feel like going training today, which is pretty much me every day. I don't feel like it, but I take action, I do something I might be just putting on my gym gear. And I've said this before, put on your gear, walk out the door, go to the letterbox and then see. Often, when you've just taken that couple of steps of action, then you're in the movement and you're like, ‘Oh, well, I'm out here, now muscle go’. Then it gets easier and easier and then you're in the flow of it.

It's the anticipation, sometimes, that stops you. And when you just get up, doing the press-ups in the morning, before I do anything else. I go and have a cold shower or do my heart rate monitoring my HRV. All the breath-hold techniques, and then I come out of the shower. Then I often do like my press-ups and stuff before I sit down at the computer. Because I've done it and if you have little tiny habits that you build in. It might be just teeny press-ups or teeny sit-ups. Every time you go to the loo. Whatever the case maybe you set these little wee micro-goals that you can't fail it. And that action creates motivation. Because you've actually done a little bit and you're pleased with yourself and that creates its own reward loop type of thing.

A lot of what you were saying was just lots. That's exactly what Paul Taylor, I've just had on my show. I'm gonna do Dr Don, would you know. All of this is very, very similar.

So, Kim, I want to go now into hypnosis because this is something that fascinates me. I haven't studied it. I want to, it's on my to-do list at some point in time. Tell me how the heck does that work and what's involved with the hypnosis process?

Kim: It's pretty cool. It's tapping directly into the unconscious mind. And I could use language with us right here and now where I could get us all into a very relaxed state. And every breath that you're taking, we're getting more and more relaxed. And as we relax more, we learn more. And the more we learn, the more we hear. And as we’re hearing new thoughts and opportunities, the more we realize we're capable of everything and anything. That's because we're extraordinary. So as I talk like that, and as I speak to you like that, it's almost putting you into a subconscious trance, which is kind of has your mind scrambling and not having to consciously think.

Your mind kind of goes on this beautiful journey. It's in that space, where you, I believe, we tap into the heart space. And when we tap into the heart or the unconscious space, we can put new meanings past the critical factor, past that critical person who knocks you or puts you down all the time. Here’s another question. If you hear yourself knocking yourself, who's talking? If you're listening, who's talking? And if it's you're saying it, who's listening? So I love the rabbit hole of the unconscious mind because it gets you realizing that everything is about programming. Everything is programmed. And so we want to program excellent computers.

Which is why when we watch people who do amazing things, we want to model ourselves off them or we want to learn how they did it. Which is why I love NLP and hypnosis together. But hypnosis really is the ability to tap into the unconscious mind, bypassing the critical factor so that we can get to the heart, the juice, the unconscious mind to create change. So that when you come out the other side, you see possibility and opportunity. Not all the negative shite that you were saying before, we may have had the session.

And I think it's just accessing it. We spend most of our time consciously thinking. Yet as I said at the beginning when was the last time you gave thanks to your fingernail for growing or your digestive juices for doing what they're doing or your hair growing or those bald maybe not growing, but it's a really beautiful thing. And I think things like flotation tank massage. Times when you get to deeply truly relax, when we let go of the physiology of tension around us actually allows the cells to almost breathe. If we breathe, if you followed Wim Hof or any of the amazing work with breath or James Nestor whose book I just—I love James Nestor’s book.

Lisa: I’ll introduce you.

Kim: Who, James or Wim?

Lisa: James. And Patrick McKeown as well.

Kim: I love that book Breathe, changed the way I looked at my breathing. I’ve been taping my mouth at night because we can go without food for a month. I've heard of people go a year without food. We can go weeks without water. But we can't go many seconds or many minutes without breath.

Breath is the essence of life. And when we go into a state of hypnosis, we are really letting go of the breath. And as we let go of the breath, we actually are able to access the intelligence of the cells. Intelligence of the higher vibration. Without going too wacky, I guess the other way to look at it is that we operate, we're aware that we can measure the speed of light. And I can't remember the exact measurement of it right now but it's bloody fast. But everything below that is all measurable. And from a conscious level, we understand it, you know, we've got vibrational frequency of plants, of oils, of food. We understand that there's a vibrational frequency to all things. But above the speed of light, where we go into the zero point field of quantum physics and true possibility and infinity. That's where the mind just– . It's so big and so bizarre, that you actually can't do anything but surrender to it and feel all possibility.

I guess the way to look at that, to try and bring it into some realm, is if we put one of our blood cells, if we put blood under a microscope, we would go down, and we'd see there's a whole lot of cells. Then we'd go further into the cell and then we'd see a whole cell and within the cell is a whole lot of stuff and life. Proteins and cytoplasm, DNA and RNA. But then if we go right into the DNA and RNA, we go further into that you'll see there's even more microcosms of cells and systems and structure. And if you keep going, the more you go, the more you see. There is nothing but space.

Lisa: There is only vibration.

Kim: And space. And then there's just the vibration.

Lisa: And this is science. There is nothing there. They’re just energy.

Kim: And we could do it to the chair you're sitting on. We could slice through a piece of that. And when the more we go into each of the wooden chairs, or this chair that you're sitting on structure, you'll see that that becomes nothing. And we can go the other way where we go up into us, here right now. From our cells into our blood systems, to our body, to our human system, to our environment, to our community, the place we live, into the planet, then we go beyond the planet into the galaxy, and then we realize the galaxies beyond the galaxies, all of a sudden, we're back to nothing. So we can go macro or micro. but the joy of this ride into quantum physics is that it means that everything means nothing, and nothing is no thing and no thing is everything and everything is something.

When I start doing that with my mind, it makes you realize that actually, if I bring it right back into that significant emotional event that occurred when I was a five-year-old girl. I just, through my own filter systems, through my own values, beliefs and upbringing, my personality, all of those meta-programs going on, I made it mean something. And I love this idea. What if life had no meaning? And it had no meaning that it had no meaning. What if we could actually realize that everything we think is true is actually just a limiting belief of perception of our idea of reality. That in fact, the only reality, the only truth I could actually give you right here right now, is that you and I both know, there's two truths, probably. One truth is that the sun will come up tomorrow. Whether we see it or not is another thing but we do know it’s the truth, the sun will come up tomorrow. And the other truth is we will all die at some point. But even that's up for debate because do we die? Or do we go to another realm in which we didn’t have past and future lives and soul journey? So I don't know.

Lisa: We could go like a huge, and I’ll be– no, I'm fascinated by quantum physics. And most of it, to be honest, is beyond my grasp, it’s a little brainy. But I know that there’s these bigger things out there and I'd love to riff with you for a couple hours on this subject. But we'd probably, people will be getting ‘what the hell are they talking about’?

Kim: What I'd love to say though, is just to finish off there, is just to realize that everything you've ever experienced is just a belief. It's not truth, it's just your perception. So it's never the truth. It's always up for bid, based on how you believe and see and perceive the world. Which is why there's conflict, which is why we have arguments.

But wouldn't it be beautiful, if I could just for a minute, put my shoe, try because I never could. But if I put my shoes and feet into your shoes just for a moment, and imagine it from your perception, your beliefs and your reality, I actually have more understanding.

Lisa: And more empathy.

Kim: I may not agree with it, I may not like it. But, my gosh, it's interesting that it's from your perspective. So every time we feel ourselves triggered, or every time we feel ourselves going into a place of anger or frustration or guilt or sadness or whatever that driving emotion is. Rather than sitting in the whirlpool of mud pit of it, ask yourself this question: For what purpose am I feeling this? Why? Or even just the question why? Why am I sad? Well, I'm sad, because he said that. Why does what he says make you sad? Well, because it's not fear? Why is not fear, not fear? Well, because I don't feel like I'm listened to. Why is it important that you're listened to? Because I feel so alone. Why are you feeling alone? Because I don't love myself.

If you really go to the core of all of it, I promise you, it almost gets back to the fear of not being loved or the fear of not being accepted. That's what everything that drives these emotions in our behaviours comes from.

Lisa: Wow, that is just absolutely amazing. And it's all automatic. Like we had these, Dr Daniel Amen talks about these automatic negative thoughts that just pop up all the time. And if we can separate ourselves out from our own brain, our own subconscious, our own programming, and just observe how these automatic thoughts just keep coming at you all the time. And then if you let them go, they'll go again.

Kim: Or know that those negative thoughts are part of the human experience. They are actually from an evolutionary, anthropological development point of view. We had to be on alert for the sabre-toothed tiger, we had to be watching our tribe or our kids, we had to be there. But we actually spiked ourselves into sympathetic dominants very quickly with that. Years gone by we also pushed ourselves very quickly back down into parasympathetic place. We had peace just to digest. Years today, we're living in the sympathetic dominant’s world.

So I just say with you, as the negative thought comes in, even ask that question, why am I thinking that and keep doing that? I always say our seven why's, and be really honest with yourself. Ask seven why's: Why didI feel that? Why am I thinking that?

I remember my grandmother. Here's another nice way of saying it. I was driving down the freeway once. This is years ago when she was still alive. She emigrated from New Zealand to Australia at 90 years of age. So I always say to people, if you think you’re too old for anything. I always say no. That's a limiting belief, right? So anyway, we're driving down the freeway, I was driving back to King’s Row which she was living over here. And she always used to put her hand on my knee and she'd say, penny for your thoughts. And this particular doubt, obviously had my jaw was clenched. I tell Grandma, ‘I can't talk about this one'. And she said, ‘Oh, Sweetheart, come on. A problem shared is a problem half solved’. So I turned the music up. So the children couldn't hear behind me. They were in their car seats. And I leaned over and said, ‘Grandma, I had this terrible thought, I'm going to have a car accident. A hit on car accident’. And the awful thing about that is that I've just read a book called The Secret which is all about the law of attraction. The more you think it, the more you might attract it. ‘Darling, that must be awful. Terrible’, she goes. ‘Oh, darling, you know, sometimes when we have a thought like that, did you ever stop to think that maybe it's your angels just asking you to drive more carefully’.

So ever since she said that whenever I've had a negative thought come in, like ‘Oh, I don't feel like going for a run God, you're useless. Might you go for a run’? I then go ‘Maybe my angels are asking me to go for a walk today instead'. Or maybe it's just important that I go outside on earth on sand or the grass and just take three deep breaths. Maybe the angels are just saying to me, ‘Your body just don't feel like a good run today, but do something more gentle, be more gentle’. And I think having that reframe ability is one of the most powerful things we can do as humans on the planet.

Lisa: Wow, what a wise Nana you had. Especially since you have a history, you've got a world record as being the youngest to do 24-hour racing.

Kim: Well, it's nothing to these days now. I ran 100 miles in less than 24 hours and I was the youngest woman.

Lisa: It’s not nothing and it’s crazy. I know what they take...

Kim: On a 400-meter track.

Lisa: Yes, I know exactly what it takes. You're not coming from a place of laziness, You’re coming from this place of being sensible and listening to your body and tuning into that. And I love what your Nana said, your grandma said, ‘What an amazing lady’.

There's another thing I just said, we'll wrap it up in a second because I have to go and pick up my mummy. But Paul Taylor talked, who I'm gonna introduce you to, who's doing all this crazy stuff. And he's been on the podcast. He talks about these two characters that you have in your head and he gets you to draw them. Your epic, uber you and your not so great, you. The one that's negative, or the one that's always pulling it down. And they actually put them into figures that you actually draw little cartoon bubbles, and what they are saying to you? And by doing this you're creating the distance to make it real. It puts it into a cartoon perspective of what's actually going on in your brain and this fight because otherwise, it's very ethereal. You know that you are, part of you wants to be this amazing, good person doing these amazing, incredible things and pushing outside your boundaries and being brave. And the other part of you just wants to crawl up and be negative and horrible.

Kim: And the beautiful thing of that, just on that note, is we could call that shadow or golden shadow. And if you ask the seven why's to each of those characters, you will be amazed. And this is why I love the work that I do, is that they both actually have the same purpose.

Lisa: Wow, to protect you.

Kim: They’re both to protect you, to guide you, to love you.

Lisa: They just don’t know the best way.

Kim: Exactly. And sometimes, it’s beautiful to actually integrate the two together as well. I just wanted to add that.

Lisa: I think that’s great. Because there’s what’s that negative one. If you think about it, why is it telling you something negative? Because it's scared?.‘You can't run a marathon? Who do you think you are? You're not good enough to do that’. That's the negative voice speaking. It's a negative little Lisa that didn't go. And then the other ones. ‘Yes, you can. I know you can make it. Come on, keep going’. And then when you put that into the perspective of why is that negative voice saying that? Because it doesn't want you to fail, it doesn't want you to get hurt. It's like your overprotective mother, who's actually holding you back from what you can achieve. And then you've got the other one on the other side, the mum that's going ‘Come on, you can do that. I'm cheering for you!’ And just understanding that this process is going on in our heads.

As runners we know that voice very, very well. Because when you’ve been 100 miles out there, it's screaming. That negative voice is screaming that you just stop.

Kim: You know what’s so funny with it. I just finished with this one. I remember running this world record race and I remember this voice inside of my head for the first probably, I'll be honest, 14 hours of the race. It was saying ‘You’re a dork. What a stupid thing to do. Who does this? You're never gonna do this. What? You're a dork’. All of these things. And then I go ‘Oh shut up’, and I carry on.

Anyway, finally at about we call the graveyard shift, between 12 and 6 am. And the doctor comes out puts me on the scales and I was looking terrible. I'm dragging my sorry back around the track. He puts me on the scales and he goes, ‘I'm sorry, Kim, you've lost seven kilos, nearly seven kilos. We're going to take you out of the race. It would be wrong with me to let you race’. And in that moment this voice went, ‘You can't tell me I can’t run. You can't tell me’. I begged him to let me stay in the race. So for 14 hours, I've been fighting it then someone tells me I can't do it. This voice turns around and goes you can't tell me what to do. And then he said to me, ‘Listen to your team. You're gonna eat all this stuff. You're gonna have to take these supplements’. Then I ended up rising above it and then setting a world record and then when they said tom me I set a world record, I turned around and I was receiving the trophy I sat there and I thought, ‘Imagine what I could have done if I hadn’t spent fourteen hours on the track whinging’.

Lisa: All that energy being sucked into that negativity and I still haven't worked out how to shut it up completely. But it's a rebellious nature that comes out when anybody tells me I can't do something. It's like a red rag to a bull.

Kim: I think that's why I love so much with my–. I have a mentorship program where I have women every week coming into this. Every Tuesday night they show up with me and I pull their minds apart and I give them and I dance with it because now I have such a love. Whoo. We do that.

And then I'm super pumped that we now have live events happening, which are the essential self, key weekend, which then are the immersion events. Because for many of us to learn this, it really takes a process. But imagine immersing yourself into it for a whole weekend. And sometimes I think we make greater shifts in it by immersion rather than week by week or month by month.

And I'm only sharing this because I know that a lot of your listeners around the world, the ones on the Sunshine Coast, and ones going to be down in Victoria and Melbourne. But I just want people to know that it doesn't have to be my event. But look at something around you. What's going on? Even if it's someone doing a library talk, someone's offering something at the local—YouTube. Just keep your mind stimulated with possibility because it's through the possibility we have grown. It’s through the growth we become way more powerful individuals. And with that, we start to then look at our higher purpose, and what legacy are we going to leave in this life.

Lisa: Keep being curious. And I really encourage anyone who wants to reach out, to come on, maybe join her mentorship program where you’re doing that every week, and that's ridiculously good price like, it's super good value. So if you want to reach out to Kim and join her mentorship program there or join her in one of your retreats, we will give all the details in the show notes. But just briefly, Kim, where can people find out about you, contact you, ask you about all your own work that you do, your books and so on.

Kim: So two places. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you asking because I just really want this to work out. I really want people to know, the more love they have for themselves, the more they have to offer. But really to look it up kimmorisontraining.com is where you'll find the mentorship stuff. But also my beautiful products and oils, which I use throughout the whole time is twenty8.com. You can find me on Instagram, Kim Morrison and the number 28.

I love Instagram, I love being there. But I really, even if you just wanted to have a chat or to see the work that I do. Even the one-on-one mentoring that I offer. There's some breakthrough sessions that I now do that is a real 8-hour deep. You book me for eight hours straight, or we break it up into two-four hours, but do we have breakthroughs. But there's a whole lot of stuff. Plus I do international retreats and I'm launching later this year my spa, immersion and integration which is success, purpose, alignment, immersion. So that will be later this year, which I'm super pumped and excited for. It’s the goals I really live. I just, I'm so pumped.

Lisa: When do you ever have a rest?

Kim: You speak for yourself! Oh my god. Talk about you see what you see in another isn't totally present in yourself. So I see you and I go, well. And I see and realize and appreciate and respect. It's because we have this beautiful duality of love for one another.

Lisa: We do, we definitely do. You're a very special person. And I've got that little negative voice in my head gang. ‘You're not as good as Kim because she's doing all of that'. And the other one’s going ‘Yeah exactly’. And the other side's going ‘You should figure it out. You're also, you're doing amazing stuff too'. This is a classic example. I had to give that example because it's quite funny. And when you when you're self-aware enough to care crap, you're stupid busy.

But I really encourage people, kimmorrisontraining.com and 20, the word twenty8.com. Word twenty and the number 8 dot com. Check out what Kim does.

Thank you so much, my dear friend.

Kim: I love you and thank you for all the work you do. And I'm going to talk to that beautiful little inner critic right now. And she's just protecting you because she knows how much work it takes to do all of this work. She's just saying to you maybe not right now. Launching all those other ideas you've got in your head because I know we talked about our fear. Stop.

Lisa: Yeah, stop over. Thank you so much for your time today. You've been absolutely epic.

Kim: I love you lots.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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From our physical appearance to our body's mechanical functions, our whole being is encoded into our genes and kept in each cell that makes us. These basic biological units have their system to keep everything functioning and our body alive and moving. They have housekeeping functions: cells perform autophagy to get rid of accumulated waste materials. Maximising the effects of these processes can help in increasing your longevity.

When the autophagic processes fail, it can damage important parts of the cell such as the DNA and accelerate ageing. In this episode, Dr Elena Seranova explains the science behind autophagy and how it connects to NAD and sirtuin genes. She also shares her own experience and research on using this knowledge to live a longer, fuller life.

Join us in this episode to learn more about autophagy and how this process is useful in increasing your longevity and giving you a boost in life.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program that is all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how cells stay healthy. 2. Find out Dr Elena's tips and advice in increasing your longevity by activating autophagy. 3. Learn more about the science behind NMN supplements and their revitalising effect.

Resources * Read about Dave Asprey’s work around the keto diet. * Lifespan by Dr David Sinclair * Pushing the Limits Ep 170: The Search for the Perfect Protein with Dr David Minkoff * Visit NMNBio if you want to learn more about NMN supplements in New Zealand.

Episode Highlights [04:33] Getting to Know Dr Elena Seranova * Dr Elena Seranova is an interdisciplinary scientist. * She holds a degree in Psychology, MSc Translational Neuroscience, and a PhD focusing on autophagy and cell biology. * With her expertise in her field, she co-founded a biotech startup and is now the the founder of NMN Bio in the United Kingdom.

[06:06] What Is Autophagy? * Autophagy is a catabolic pathway that degrades unwanted materials within the cell. * The cell needs to avoid the build-up of unnecessary materials. * There are different pathways for activation like mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) and PI3K (Phosphoinositide 3-kinase). * Impairments at various stages of autophagy lead to its failure and cell death. * Once autophagy fails, apoptosis, or programmed cell death, can activate.

[11:25] NAD as Fuel for Sirtuin and PARP * PARP and sirtuin are different classes of enzymes that use NAD for multiple vital processes, including DNA repair (both) and gene expression (sirtuin). * Sirtuin 1 is one of the pathways that can initiate autophagy. initiates the autophagic process. * When DNA is damaged, PARP activates and depletes NAD stores. The decrease in NAD levels inhibits sirtuin's ability to carry out its functions, including autophagy, accelerating a cell's death.

[15:34] What Is NAD? * Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide or NAD is a substrate for enzymes. * It plays a vital role in different reactions within the cell. * You can supplement NAD levels using boosters such as nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN).

[18:44] mTOR-Independent Pathways * Activation of autophagy using Sirtuin 1 is an mTOR-independent pathway. * It is essential not to activate autophagy through mTOR pathways. * mTOR is responsible for cell growth and translation.

[25:04] How to Activate mTOR-Independent Autophagy * Autophagy is dependent on nutrient starvation. Intermittent fasting can activate it. * A generally healthy lifestyle includes supplement intake, proper sleep, and healthy foods. * Avoid too much sunlight because it damages the skin and DNA. It activates PARP enzymes. * Take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil which contains oleic acid. This good fat has the same effects as resveratrol. * Induce artificial stress through cryotherapy, saunas, and exercise to activate sirtuin 1.

[33:22] Why Did Dr Elena Decide to Bring NMN to the Market? * She came across NAD and NMN during her doctorate studies and saw their importance. * Her own experiences showed better focus and energy levels after taking NMN supplements. * There are not enough reliable suppliers that offer good regulation and quality control. * She wanted to provide the best for herself and her family. * NMN Bio has complete transparency on suppliers and quality regulation

[38:28] Can Weight Loss Occur from Taking NMN? * Lisa Tamati's experience in taking NMN shows fat loss but no muscle loss. * Dr Elena's mice studies show evidence that NMN can improve insulin sensitivity and lipid metabolism.

[40:42] Do NMN Supplements Have Any Downsides? * They found no side effects in studies with mice despite an increase in dosage. * Current studies are still ongoing to determine the ideal dosage for humans. * Most people take 500mg to 1g. Doubling this still shows good tolerance. * Take supplements in the morning as NAD affects the circadian rhythm.

[53:57] How Do Autophagy, NAD and Sirtuin Genes Fit Together? * Autophagy recycles various damaged organelles. * Sirtuin 1 genes activate autophagy and mitophagy. * NAD functions as a substrate for sirtuin enzymes to work. * NMN supplements can increase NAD levels. * Listen to the episode for the full explanation of how these three work together.

[58:43] Can NMN be Taken as an Infusion? * This is not something that Dr Elena has studied in-depth and she is curious as well about how viable this procedure will be. * There is a low concentration of energy in intravenous injections, but it's present. * Oral administration is more reliable in giving boosts and it costs cheaper.

[01:00:01] Do Antioxidants Help in Increasing Your Longevity? * Studies have shown that antioxidants don't suppress ageing. * Lifestyle intervention and autophagy activation are proven ways to slow ageing.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘Lysosome is another acidic organelle that contains acid hydrolases that are able to digest this cargo...and if it doesn't work, well, the cell is basically in trouble because you have all this garbage floating around, and there is nothing to remove them. So this is why autophagy is important.

‘When things are preserved across species, then that gives a scientist an indication that this is probably a very important biological function’.

‘I think that in order for your body to function properly, you really need to have a kind of a healthy routine in general’.

‘So I think that when it comes to being healthy, and activating your autophagy levels, and having a healthy lifestyle in general, you need to start with the basics first.’

‘Another small tip that I can give is to actually avoid sunlight, which is something that people don't really consider. What happens when we're exposed to sunlight, when our skin is exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods of time, we start getting the DNA damage’.

“The important part is not to just increase your age, it’s to increase your healthspan.”

‘And if you have if your mitochondria are not healthy, and they're dying, and you're not having enough mitochondria in your cells, then you are going to be sick.’

About Dr Elena Seranova Dr Elena Seranova is a scientist, serial entrepreneur and business mentor who has founded multiple innovative biotechnological businesses.

She first studied at the University of Ioannina with a major in Psychology. She started a private practice before developing an interest in neuroscience. She continued her studies and earned her Master’s Degree in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield. She now also holds a Doctorate Degree in Stem Cell Biology and Autophagy from the University of Birmingham.

Her expertise in these fields has led her to become the co-founder of a biotech start-up, SkyLab Bio. She has written a number of peer-reviewed articles and multiple research articles on autophagy throughout her career.

Aside from these accomplishments, she started her own business, NMN Bio. Her own experiences with the use of supplements have inspired her to expand the market to supply the public with cutting-edge anti-ageing supplements. NMN Bio reaches New Zealand, UK, and Europe.

Dr Elena found her passion for drug discovery and autophagy. She has endeavoured to share this with the public through her research and work as an entrepreneur.

To learn more about Dr Elena and her work, visit her website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, especially those interested in increasing their longevity, so that they can practice the activation of autophagy in their lifestyle.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This week I have Dr. Elena Seranova, who has already been a guest on the show. And today, we're talking about autophagy and NAD, and the interplay between these two. Now that might sound extremely boring, but it isn't. It's all about longevity and anti-aging. So, we're going to be talking about the science between about NAD precursors and the sirtuin genes, and how to upregulate the sirtuin genes, and all about autophagy, which is really the recycling of old and damaged parts and proteins of a cell that need to be gotten rid of. So, it's a bit like having a good garbage disposal unit happening. And there are many ways to activate autophagy, which we go into in this episode. We talk about intermittent fasting, we talk about cold and hot and hormetic stressors like exercise and yes, of course fasting. But also, mTOR independent pathways to activate autophagy, it'll all be revealed in this interview.

Now this does get a little bit technical in the first 20 minutes or so. But hang in there and listen to this a couple of times. Because if you want to slow down aging, if you want to slow down the generative decline of your body and you want to have a long and healthy lifestyle, then this stuff is really, really worth paying attention to and trying to understand.

We talk about NMN, which is nicotinamide mononucleotide, which is a supplement that is now available, is a longevity compound to upregulate the sirtuin genes. And we're really lucky to check that out. You can go and find that supplement, which has been made and produced by Dr. Elena Seranova and her company, NMN Bio. So if you head hop over to nmnbio.nz, we're now importing this into the country. So, this is one way that you can really fight aging and degenerative decline that we all fear and don't want.

And when you listen to this episode and really listen to it a couple of times, you'll understand some of the incredible anti-aging things that are coming down. This is not pseudoscience. Dr. Elena is one of the most amazing neuroscientists out there. So please listen to this episode, enjoy it, get a lot out of it and get the takeaway. So, if you don't understand some of the terminology, don't worry, keep going. And by the end, you'll start to pick up certain bits and pieces. And if you listen to it again, you'll be able to pick up a little bit more and a little bit more. And at the end of the day, it's about the takeaways, what can you do to slow aging down and all that information is in there. So, I hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Elena.

Before we go over to that we are all about health optimisation, high performance, athletic performance. So, if you need any help with any of those areas of your life, please reach out to us, Support at lisatamati.com. Go and check out our website, lisatamati.com. You'll find all our programs, our Epigenetics Programs, our online run training system that's customised and personalised totally to you, and check out what we do. We love helping you be the best version of yourself that you can be. Now over to the show with Dr. Elena Servanova.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here and very excited to have you hopefully join us this morning. It's 7:30am in the morning here in New Zealand. And where Dr. Elena Seranova is, it's very late at night. How are you doing, Dr. Elena?

Dr Elena Seranova: Good, good. How are you? Happy to be here again.

Lisa: Yeah, very excited for today's topic. So, we're going to be doing a discussion around autophagy and NAD boosters and sirtuin genes. So it’s going to be a really interesting discussion that is really beneficial for you if you want to know how to live longer, live healthier, and optimise your body and your mind and your potential. So, Dr. Elena, can you just tell us briefly a little bit about yourself?

Dr Elena: Sure. So, I started my journey as a psychologist. So I'm an interdisciplinary scientist. I majored in psychology at first and then I had my own private practise for five years which turned out to be a successful wellness centre. And I really got fascinated by neuroscience and the brain. And for this reason, at first I started studying the brain myself and then I found an amazing master's degree at the University of Sheffield in Translational Neuroscience, which basically combined the research and neurodegeneration with applications that could translate into therapeutics. So, this is what translational neuroscience means, is basically the combination and the outcome of the research—the hardcore biology research that can be utilised for therapeutic approaches and patients.

I really enjoyed that. So that was quite cool, being in the lab and doing molecular biology experiments and so on. So, I kind of fell in love with the lab, and I decided to do a PhD as well. I continued my studies in autophagy and stem cell biology and it was quite challenging, but at the same time, I really enjoyed it. And I can definitely say that science is a big part of my life.

Lisa: Definitely your thing. Okay, so autophagy and stem cells. So in relation to neurodegenerative diseases in that case? Okay, but what is autophagy? Because a lot of people will be listening to it and go, ‘What the heck is that big word, autophagy’? It's sort of big word in biohacking circles, but perhaps not in the general public. Can you explain what autophagy is exactly?

Dr Elena: Yes, sure. So, autophagy is a catabolic pathway that degrades dysfunctional organelles in the cell or protein pro aggregates. So, any material that is basically unwanted in the cell, autophagy can degrade. It's like the stomach of the cell.

Lisa: So, it’s like eating it? It's eating, sort of...

Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly. And what happens when autophagy is activated, we actually have the formation of the so-called phagophore, which is a membrane structure that basically engulfs different organelles and materials that need to be degraded to form the so called autophagosome, which is a round organelle that basically has this cargo that needs to be digested. That eventually fuses with lysosome.

And lysosome is another acidic organelle that contains acidic hydrolases that are able to digest this cargo. And this process is very essential for the cell, it’s very vital. It's evolutionary conserved in all species, from yeast to models. And if it doesn't work well, the cell is basically in trouble because you have all this garbage...

Lisa: Floating around.

Dr Elena: ...floating around and there is nothing to remove them. So, this is why autophagy is important. And we have different pathways that autophagy can be activated through as well. So, one of those pathways is mTOR, mechanistic target of rapamycin. And then we have other pathways that can activate this process such as AMPK, GSK3, and so on.

Lisa: So is this like, sorry to interrupt, but like because I know that people out there might be like, ‘Wow, that's a lot of big words and a lot of information’. So, is it like that the cell has to do a housecleaning, and it's got stuff inside the cell that is not working optimally, and needs to be gotten rid of, or is it the whole cell? So, it's not apoptosis. So it's not where the host is disintegrating?

Dr Elena: No. Yeah, it's actually a—it's a pre-apoptotic pathway. So, before apoptosis is activated, we have autophagy. And if autophagy fails in what it needs to do, then we have activation of some apoptotic pathways. So, it's one step before that. And if everything goes well, and autophagy is functional—and by the way, in different diseases, we might be having different autophagy impairments at different stages of autophagy. So, it's either the initial phagophore formation, for instance, that it's not working well, and it can’t engulf the cargo, or it's insulator stages of autophagy, such as the acidic hydrolysis and the lysosomes that are actually not that acidic. So their pH is not acidic enough to digest the cargo. So, we might be having different defects in the autophagy pathway in different diseases.

Lisa: That leads to apoptosis. Am I right?

Dr Elena: And yeah, if autophagy is not doing its work correctly, then eventually we will have apoptosis. And actually, this is what we're seeing in in vitro models of neurodegenerative diseases as well. So, for instance, if autophagy is not working well.

And we have, let's say, dysfunctional organelles, such as mitochondria—dysfunctional mitochondria that are not working well. Let's say they are depolarised. And there is an excess production of reactive oxygen species going on. Now, if nothing can degrade these dysfunctional mitochondria, you'll keep on having this accumulation of reactive oxygen species, which eventually will lead to DNA damage and deactivation of PARPs. And it's basically a death spiral that will keep on leading the cell towards death.

Lisa: Okay, so what is a PARP? You mentioned PARP there. And just for the listeners, too. So, apoptosis is basically cell death, programmed cell death. So, this is not—what's the other one necrotic or something?

Dr Elena: Necrosis?

Lisa: Yeah, necrosis, where the cell dies for—necrosis. But this is sort of a natural programmed cell death. But we only want that if we're actually renewing the cells and we are wanting new stuff. So, before that, the body tries to do this autophagy process, is that how it works? And then what so what is PARP? What is PARP, because that’s the word again...

Dr Elena: PARPs are a class of enzymes, and in order for them to function, they need a molecule called NAD, so nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And they're actually competing for NAD in the cell. And whenever we have increased DNA damage, we would have the PARP activation as well. And this would lead to NAD depletion, which kind of brings me to my next point about what other enzymes consume NAD. And one of those enzymes are sirtuins, which are the so-called longevity genes that are basically responsible for multiple processes in the cell, including epigenetic regulation of gene expression.

So, they do—because sirtuins are a class of enzymes that are also dependent on NAD, and they're all the deacetylase enzymes, meaning that they remove acetyl groups from the DNA. And as a result, they control which genes will be expressed in which tissues, which is very crucial for the cellular identity and for the proper function of different cells.

So, sirtuins in a healthy cell, so sirtuin should be upregulated and they should be having this housekeeping gene—housekeeping function where they basically control what's going on with the DNA repair and also with the gene expression as well. And if we do have—when we do start having impaired autophagy, and let's say there is increased reactive oxygen species, because there are increased dysfunctional mitochondria in the cell, you will have in more activation of PARPs, and all of the NAD will start being drained from... And sirtuin will not have enough energy to function. So, those are actually quite an elegant interplay between autophagy and NAD and sirtuins.

Lisa: Okay. Okay, can I just want to like put that back to you, so that we can slow down because we are going technical quite fast. And I think a lot of people might be like, ‘What the heck are they talking about’? So, the sirtuin genes, basically longevity genes, and then one of the jobs is DNA repair. And another of the jobs is to say which genes are actually being activated right now. And these sirtuin genes are also responsible, I think, for cell replication, is that correct?

Dr Elena: The sirtuins are responsible for multiple functions, directly or indirectly. So, for instance, the sirtuin 3 gene is also responsible for mitochondrial biogenesis. And it's implicated in the amount of mitochondria that are being produced by the cell, which is related to cell replication eventually, because you do need to have enough ATP levels to replicate.

Lisa: Right. Yeah. So, this has definitely to do with ATP production as well and mitochondrial health. So, these are doing all of these jobs, the sirtuin genes, they're very, very crucial genes in our genome. And these are preserved across every species, I believe? Every species on the planet?

Dr Elena: Yeah. Also from yeast to humans, it's also—sirtuin genes are preserved very well.

Lisa: And when things are preserved across species, then that gives a scientist an indication that this is probably a very important biological function and we need to have a look at this one because it's—from what I understand.

Okay, so when you have activated PARP because you're not doing autophagy well and there's things going wrong, it's taking the NAD. So NAD is basically like a fuel source that both the sirtuin genes. And when PARP is activated, it's using to fuel its job. And so, this is competition for competing fuel sources. So, like if you imagine, you've only got one tank of fuel for your car, but you've got to go in two different directions and do two different jobs. You go, ‘How am I going to divide up my energy’? So, then it becomes important as to how much NAD we have in the body? So, what is NAD again? That says nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide? But what is that and how does it work?

Dr Elena: Yeah, it does serve as a substrate for all of these enzymes, including sirtuins and PARPS and is basically a master regulator of metabolism. So, it's a very important molecule and it serves as—without NAD, the cell is not able to function properly just because this crucial molecule is implicated in so many different reactions. So, NAD is found in all living cells and organisms. This is also evolutionary conserved across species. And it exists in two forms, NADH and NAD+, which is the reduced and the oxidised form, respectively. And both of them are important. And both of them are implicated in multiple cellular reactions.

Lisa: Is it going backwards and forwards in a cycle, NADH, NAD+, by donating electrons back and forth, sort of thing?

Dr Elena: Yeah. Through electron transport chain in the mitochondria, yeah. So, this is why it's so important. And so, what we're seeing now in the latest advancements in longevity research is that we actually can supplement with different precursors of NAD, such as nicotinamide mononucleotide, for instance, NMN. And this is the supplement that my company...

Lisa: See, you've now got that available on the market because this is such a crucial thing.

Dr Elena: Exactly. And I think that it's really interesting to also say that when it comes to the interaction between autophagy and sirtuins, there is also another regulation of autophagy there. So sirtuin 1 is actually responsible for activating some transcription factors such as TFEB and FoxO3 that have to do with initiation of the autophagy process.

So, for this reason, when we do have dropping levels of NAD, decreasing levels of NAD, and there is not enough NAD for sirtuins to do their job. And let's say again—let's talk about that previous example in neurodegeneration when you have increased reactive oxygen species, and you have increased the level of stress and oxidative stress and decreased activity of sirtuins.

And not only the situation is already bad, but because sirtuin 1 doesn't have enough energy to function and to activate the TFEB and the FoxO3 transcription factors to initiate autophagy, now you have all of this dysfunctional mitochondria floating around and autophagy starts being impaired as well because we activated enough. So, it's a negative feedback loop which actually accelerates the scenario where the cell is going towards cell death, basically.

Lisa: So that means like, if you don't have enough NAD, then your sirtuin 1 gene is not going to be able to initiate autophagy and clean up the cell and you're going to have dysfunctional mitochondria. Is that independent of the mTOR pathway? Or is that—am I getting confused?

Dr Elena: So, okay. So, good question. So, what happens is there are some molecules that activates sirtuins. So, for instance, sirtuin 1 is activated by resveratrol, and this is something that has been demonstrated many years ago. So, when you have sirtuin 1 dependent activation of autophagy, you will be having it through an mTOR independent pathway.

Lisa: So it's a fasting mimetic resveratrol.

Dr Elena: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, because we now know that the mTOR activity is not affected by intake of resveratrol. And this is quite crucial because actually, even if we want to activate autophagy, we shouldn’t do it through the mTOR pathway, this is not the preferred way, because mTOR is also responsible for growth and translation in the cell. So, this is not—it's also quite a key player in the cell. So it's a serine threonine kinase, and you actually don't want it to be activated at all times because this may lead other conditions. So, what we're focusing on at the moment is to find molecules that can activate autophagy in an mTOR independent manner.

Lisa: Okay, so. So if the mTOR—cause MTOR is usually what's for growth it’s anabolic, it's causing growth. So for example, a bodybuilder goes to the gym, they're in an anabolic state, they are in an mTOR growth state. And when you have autophagy, that's sort of the opposite. So, it's a catabolic state where it's starting to eat itself. So, it’s mTOR, most people like do fasting for that reason to activate autophagy?

Dr Elena: Yeah, this is another good point there. So, when we're fasting, and there is actually conflicting evidence out there as to when autophagy is fully activated. Usually, people say that around 24 hours, you start having the autophagy activation. There are others that swear by the ketogenic diet, and say that if you don't consume any carbs, you will get autophagy activation anyway. However, from what other researchers have found is that, if you are in a ketogenic diet, and you do consume meat, it depends on what kind of meat you consume that will either activate autophagy or not. And it all has to do with levels of different amino acids in the cell because autophagy is quite sensitive to nutrients and to nutrient starvation to be activated. If you have an abundance of amino acids, again, it will not be activated.

So, for instance, one amino acid that activates autophagy very well is leucine. And if you're eating certain meat that are rich in leucine, this is probably not good for your autophagic state. Something else to keep in mind, and I've heard, I think it was Dave Asprey saying that if you can manage to be on under 15 grams of protein per day, you will probably keep the autophagy going.

Lisa: Because a lot of people on keto think I can eat a lot of protein, which is a mistake, really. It isn't about having—that's interesting, because I had Dr. David Minkoff on my podcast, Pushing the Limits a while ago, and he has a product called PerfectAmino, which is really a 99% usable form of amino acids and combination. And I was interested, ‘Well hang on, if I'm heading there, which is going a lot of good things in the body. But is that going to inhibit my mTOR, or autophagy’? Sorry, because I've got too much leucine in there?

Dr Elena: This is a very good point for all of this process food as well. So, for instance, there are some ready meals you can get or some protein bars that claim to have all the low carb and everything. And then they slam a badge on their pack saying that it's vegan as well. But then, why is it vegan if it has all the amino acids because that's one of the selling points when you're actually on a vegan diet, or you have some days where you are on a vegan diet. You want to get yourself in a state of partial amino acid depletion to get this beneficial effect of enhanced autophagy. And on intercellular toxins and so on.

Lisa: Right, so for certain periods of time, you want to do this, and it's a cycling thing, you don't want to be completely deficient of aminos for too long because then your body will start to break down.

Dr Elena: This is what I do personally as well. So, during the week, so I am a fan of cattle/carnivore diet. So, this diet is quite comfortable for me and I enjoyed it quite a lot. But then during my week I try to have some days where I'm either vegetarian or vegan, just because I want to have those benefits.

Lisa: Yeah. Up and down. And then this seems to be a theme in biology all the time is that it's not one thing. It's not staying on keto for ever and ever, amen. It's about doing cyclic keto or cyclic vegan and it’s cyclic. And our body loves this push and pull—when there’s recovery and there’s growth and then clean up phase, growth clean up. So autophagy can be activated through fasting. It can also be active through having resveratrol and upregulating the sirtuin 1 gene, how else can we activate autophagy?

Dr Elena: So there are different ways, there are different things you can really implement in order to activate autophagy. And I think that it all has to do with how you build your lifestyle in general. So, I think that in order for your body to function properly, you really need to have a kind of a healthy routine in general. And an analogy that I can give you there is that there are people that would buy a couple of supplements, and then they would be so proud of it. And then they would say, ‘Oh, yeah, but I'm taking those supplements now, and I'm so healthy’. And then their biorhythms are all off. They sleep at 5am every day. And they're eating crappy foods or super processed foods.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s not going to work.

Dr Elena: It’s all good. So, I think that when it comes to being healthy and activating your autophagy levels and having a healthy lifestyle in general, you need to start with the basics first.

So, the intermittent fasting is definitely the first step to take in order to become a bit healthier. And from the research that I'm reading, and from the things that I'm implementing, I definitely believe that both anecdotal and scientific evidence point towards the fact that intermittent fasting is actually the way to go. I mean, there are conflicting opinions out there and there are pros and cons in every diet, and so on. And I get that. But I personally believe that with intermittent fasting, if you try to narrow down the window where you're uptaking food, this is very, very good for you. So, this is step number one.

But then again, so either you're trying to raise your NAD levels, or you're trying to activate your autophagy, because those pathways are quite intertwined. And what you eventually want to do is you want to have increased levels of sirtuin, and sirtuin 1 in particular, and sirtuin 3, of course, and so on. And for this reason, in order to preserve this pool of NAD that is available for the sirtuin 1 to activate itself and activate the autophagy pathway.

Another small tip that I can give is to actually avoid sunlight, which is something that people don't really consider. But what happens when we're exposed to sunlight, when our skin is exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods of time, we start getting the DNA damage. And when you get the DNA damage, you have PARP activation, and then again, you NAD pool...

Lisa: Wow. I never connected those dots. That's really interesting. So, because—I mean, we need sun. We need sun for vitamin D and for our mood and all that sort of stuff. So, you're not saying don't have any sun.

Dr Elena: Yeah, sure.

Lisa: But because the sun is causing DNA damage, it's going to cause more PARP activation, it’s going to have the sirtuin genes going to repair the DNA, that's going to use up the body's resources is what you're saying.

Okay, wow, that makes sense. Makes sense. And then by the same token, like things like smoking that breaks DNA, like no tomorrow. This is why smoking ages you is because of all the DNA breaks. And this is why, when you're in the sun for hours every day, you get wrinkly skin and you get collagen lost and all the rest of the things that are happening. So, anything that's going to be causing DNA breaks is going to cause you to age quicker.

Dr Elena: Exactly.

Lisa: Using up the resources basically. Wow, okay.

Dr Elena: So it's obviously—you don't have to become a vampire and dissipate walk in the sun when you want to go somewhere. But sunbathing for hours is definitely not something you want to do with—to get your body go through, basically. So that's another tip.

And then something else, really, really simple that can be implemented on a daily basis in order to maintain your sirtuin levels, and as a result, your autophagy levels, and your NAD levels is also to take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil, which contains oleic acid. And it basically does the same job as resveratrol. And it's interesting—I think that there's been a recent research article out that shows that like oleic acid might even be more efficient than resveratrol, in terms of activating sirtuin 1, which I think it's really, really cool.

Lisa: So yeah. Well, combine the two. I do.

Dr Elena: Yeah, absolutely. You can do that. And then, you need to make sure that the extra virgin olive oil is actually of a very good quality because there is a bunch of...

Lisa: There is a bunch of rubbish out there. So, make sure it's from an orchard that you know, it's cold pressed, it's all those extra virgin, it's all that sort of good stuff. And not—how do they do it with solvents and stuff? Or that it's come from multiple orchards and being cut with other oils. It's a really, really important point. And then oleic acid does so much good things in the body. But isn’t that fat, Elena? Like lots of people are like, in their minds are going, ‘But oil is fat. It’s the same with MCT oil. Isn’t that going to make you fat when you eat fat’? Just going to put that around.

Dr Elena: There are good fats and there are bad fats. So, olive oil is good fat. MCT oil is a good fat. Avocado is a good fat. So, not all thoughts are made equal. So, this is definitely something important to keep in mind, especially with a good quality extra virgin olive oil.

Lisa: Because each one of our cells is a membrane that has a phospholipid, isn't it? So we need that, actually, this building of ourselves into the integrity.

Dr Elena: We have a phospholipid layer in the brain as well. And this is why we actually supplement with omega 3 fatty acids, because this is what it does. So, this is what omega 3 fatty acids do. They go into the phospholipid membrane, and then they basically...

Lisa: Make the integrity of that membrane better.

Dr Elena: Yeah, they contribute to the healthy phospholipid layer in the brain.

Lisa: So that's why it's very important for neurodegeneration to have omega 3s going in and again, people get quality omega 3s. Not your cheap supermarket ones that are perhaps oxidised and have been sitting on the shelves for six months. So really important to get a reputable source here. And omega 3 is of course in fishes as well, and krill, and so on.

Okay, so but is there a downside to fat? Because I studied epigenetics and a lot of people's profiles come back with don't have too many fats. And it's been one of those things in my head is like ‘Why would some people not come back with you shouldn't have too much fat’? I mean, there are things like gall bladders been removed. That's a pretty specific thing. But is there a genetic component? And probably not your wheelhouse, really, but is there a genetic component to your ability to process fat?

Dr Elena: There is a genetic component, and I've actually seen this with a family that has a history of very problematic digestion of fat, and so on. Absolutely. But yeah, again, not all fats are made the same. And when you cut off the bad fats from your life, things change and everything changes really.

Lisa: Yeah, it really is very satiating, too to have a little bit of fat and that can really help with cravings and blood sugar spikes—we're getting off topic.

So you have a company, NMN Bio, which produces nicotinamide mononucleotide supplement. And you've got a whole range of other stuff coming as well. Why did you decide like, you need to get this out there on the market? Based on your research and your knowledge around this area, why is it important that people take NMN if they're serious about slowing aging?

Dr Elena: So first of all, I came across the biology of NAD and NMN during my PhD studies and my research kind of led me into this field because I was studying autophagy neurodegeneration. And actually, I still cannot disclose my research.

Lisa: Yeah, it’s not published yet.

Dr Elena: My research paper from my PhD is not published yet, but hopefully soon, so we're about to submit it quite soon actually. So for this reason, I started studying the biology of NAD and I actually saw how important and how crucial NAD is to the cell and what happens when we have a lack of NAD and depletion of NAD pools in the cell. And I've been supplementing with different kinds of vitamins and supplements my whole life really. So, I was watching closely this space for a while, and I was taking different supplements myself for a while.

And so, when I came across NMN and I realised that actually there is this strategy where we can supplement with a precursor in order to increase our energy levels, I found it really, really interesting. And I thought to give it a go myself and try it out and see the results. And then what shocked me was that the immediate effect of the supplement—so within a few days, you can already feel a difference in your energy levels and your focus. And this comes from the fact that sirtuins are responsible for so many molecular processes in the cell. And this is why you have this effect, including the mitochondrial biogenesis, which gives you basically increased ATP, consequently.

Lisa: You get actually more mitochondria. So, like, if you got heart disease...

Dr Elena: The production of more mitochondria, and then they produce more ATP as a result. And then you have this magic energy, yeah. This is why I thought to bring this product into the market. And the other reason was that there was not enough reliable suppliers on the market, which is crazy, because it's actually quite a popular supplement. It's been on the rise, the interest was rising for the past couple of years, but what we're seeing is there is a lot of white labelling companies that don't offer any certificates of analysis and so on. And also, you have even big companies not offering proper certificates of analysis, which was me like, it was…

Yeah, I don't understand. You have a big company, and you have just the purity report from like, 18 months ago, and you don't have any other analysis, such as heavy metals, or pH or microorganisms. So, the consumer is actually not confident in buying from you. And I wanted to deliver the best quality for myself and my family. And then I said, ‘Wait a minute. This is not done, right’. And this is why I launched the company because I wanted a company that was completely transparent. And I even say it on the website, that if you're interested in finding out who our suppliers are, and so on, and have any questions about our supply chain, just feel free to reach out to me. And I would be happy to disclose all of those things.

There are other companies that you can't find any registration number, or who the founder is, and so on. And it's quite confusing, really, because like you— you don't know who you deal with.

Lisa: This is the same with the whole supplement industry. On the one hand, it's good that it's not regulated by the FDA, and whoever else, there are authorities around the world. Because like, then—they are turned into the pharmaceutical industry, which don't get me started. But on the other hand, there's not enough regulation around the quality control.

And one of the things when I was searching for NMNs, searching the world for it, I had to go overseas and import it to friends in America and get it out of there. And this is why I like—was super excited to discover your work. And then, we've since now made it available down here. So, we're going to branch down here in New Zealand for New Zealand, Australia. And I wanted someone who I could trust, who has all the scientific knowledge behind it, there's all lab tests, etc. And that was really important for me for quality.

Just on a side note. So I've been taking NMN now for—I think—so five, close to six months. I've had a massive weight loss and so as my mum. Why would that be? Like, I didn't take it for weight loss. I wasn't overweight, per se. But I had a couple of kilos that I was quite clear to get rid of. And what I've noticed—because I'm an athlete, that's my background—I haven't lost an ounce of muscle, which has been really awesome because most people are struggling to keep muscle mass, lose fat mass. My mum has lost 11 kilos. And she is of a genetic body type that really struggles with weight loss. She's conservation metabolism, from a genetic point of view, very, very hard for her to lose weight. So, I've never seen this in the history of her entire life, since I've been around. The weights just dropped off her.

Is this some sort of upregulation in the metabolic pathways? Is it improving the insulin resistance? What's it doing there to cause such weight loss without muscle loss?

Dr Elena: Well, in my study so far, there's definitely evidence that it does improve insulin sensitivity, and it also improves the lipid metabolism profile. So those two are very important. And unfortunately, we don't have those studies in humans yet. But more clinical studies are on the way, and hopefully we'll have very good results this year with the NMN besides the safety studies that we already have in humans.

So in mice, what we're seeing is that there is basically a reverse of type two diabetes, which is really impressive. And if you want to correlate this data into humans somehow, I would say that, obviously, I'm not a medical doctor, and this is not a medical advice, but I would say that it does have to do something with the metabolism, and it basically improves the way your body metabolises everything. And...

Lisa: Worth trying and there's no downside to NMN. There's no, it's a vitamin B derivative, well then you will say to me, ‘Well, can I just take B3 and be done’? and it's like, no, it doesn't work like that, which should be a lot cheaper.

Dr Elena: That’s the other impressive thing about this compound is that it actually doesn't have, if any, side effects at all. So even in studies with mice, where the dosage that they use in mice is actually much higher than it is in the one that we usually have in humans. So, for instance, if someone would take 500 mg, or one gram of NMN per day in humans. And then in mice studies, they use something like 200 mg per kilogram of weight, which is much, much more, and it still doesn't have any side effects.

Lisa: Does it mean that we need higher dosages? Like in the human, or has it only been tested to one gram and why has it not been tested higher, if that's the case?

Dr Elena: No, I think that there are studies underway for this as well. So eventually, we will find what is the ideal dosage for humans. I think that from anecdotal evidence, people can already see results from 500 mg or one gram and so on. There are people that take more. So, some biohackers say that they take two grams or four grams, and is still very well tolerated. But yeah, so far, it does not produce any side effects in terms of…

Lisa: Any downside.

Dr Elena: Basically. And, for instance, for myself, my stomach is quite sensitive. So, when I'm on an empty stomach, I can't take vitamin C or caffeine and I get nauseous and so on. And this is not the case with an NMN. So, I can take it first. It is very well tolerated on an empty stomach, very mild. I really love it. There’s so many reasons to love it.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have my morning and night. So, I'm on a gram a day. And is there any reason not to take it at night? So I split the dose—reasoning, thinking, keeping the levels up?

Dr Elena: I mean, I would probably take it all in the morning, I think. There's been a study out that it can affect the circadian rhythms as well. And interestingly, it actually affects NMN—sorry—NAD levels affects the circadian rhythm. But it's not the other way around. So, NAD actually dictates the circadian rhythm in the body. So, for this reason, I would suggest to take it in the morning because then your whole body synchronise, then you wake up and you tell to your body that look, it's the morning now, and we're going to have increased NAD level.

Lisa: Increase. Ohh okay. So, okay, I got that wrong. I haven't noticed that I've had worse sleep or anything like that, or any rhythm has been out. But I would definitely swap to doing—my thinking process around that was keeping the tissue saturated over a 24-hour period, as opposed to all at once and then perhaps dropping, but I don't know. What is the half-life of it? Do you know? Is there any sort of evidence around that?

Dr Elena: I actually, not sure. No, no.

Lisa: There’s no evidence yet. And so yeah, there's a ton of studies still being done that are currently, like this year, like going to be coming out, which is going to be really exciting. So that we're going to get more evidence. I mean, there's this stuff that I've been reading around fertility in animal studies, and they're starting to do human studies, which I personally am very interested in, in reversing aging of the ovaries and even with... I mean, the mice study was incredible around fertility, where the mice were postmenopausal, they actually knocked off any existing eggs with chemotherapy. And then gave them NMN and the mice went on to have babies. And there was a whole study.

Dr Elena: This is why I get so excited about NMN and this is why it's my first product because frankly speaking as a scientist, I've never seen results like that with a natural compound.

Lisa: No?

Dr Elena: Because there is a bunch of natural compounds out there, there is a bunch of other supplements. And what we're talking about spermidine the other day...

Lisa: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

Dr Elena: ...another autophagy activator. Quite an interesting supplement, yes. By the way, it's also an mTOR, independent autophagy activator, which is good.

Lisa: Another very good reason to take that as well. And we were looking into that aren’t we, Elena about adding that?

Dr Elena: Yeah, absolutely. We will look into this, but again, you don't see results, like the ones that you see with NMN in multiple studies from other compounds, it's really fascinating.

Lisa: Wow, so yeah, so there are other products that are going to... And this is a super exciting thing, like were our grandparents or our parents even didn't get the chance, like, with aging was aging, and there was nothing that you really could do to influence how fast you aged. They weren't aware of it. And later on, it's become well, if you eat better and you exercise a little bit more and you stop smoking and, and stuff, you’ll age slower. But now we're taking exponential leaps in our knowledge.

I mean, I fell into this realm when I was reading Dr David Sinclair's book, who is a very prominent scientist at Harvard Medical School, and made his book, Lifespan, which I totally recommend people reading. I was just like, ‘Oh my gosh, if I can stay healthy now’, because I'm 52, ‘if I can stay like, really, in top shape for another 10 years, by then we're going to have stuff that will help me live really long’. And that really excites me. And not just live long, but live healthier.

Dr Elena: That’s the important part. The important part is not to just increase your age, it’s to increase your health span. So, the time that you're spending being healthy. And what you're referring to is actually called the aging escape velocity, where basically we’ll have more advanced research coming in every year of our lives. And this will eventually expand our lifespan, which is amazing. And I also think that if we preserve ourselves well, we might as well see this in our lifetimes, which will be amazing.

Lisa: Absolutely. And I want another few decades, please. Listening to Dave Asprey, who by far, got...

Dr Elena: I want another like, few hundreds.

Lisa: Yeah, well, I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous right now. But if you listen to Dave Asprey saying conservatively, and Dr. David Sinclair, too, like, conservatively, we could live to 150, 180, and beyond. Then once they crack the code, and they're actually able to turn the cells back to which they are working on right now. And which they can actually go in the petri dish, from what I understand like with skin cells and make them immortal. And they can't do it in humans because it's too risky, they could turn you into a tumour and stuff. But with the Yamanaka factors that were discovered a decade or so ago, they're actually able to turn the clock back to the point of you being a 20-year-old again. And this is like, ‘Wow, this is pretty exciting. Being able to regrow nerves, spinal injuries, people who have gone blind from macular degeneration’ — all of these things are coming down the line. This is very, very exciting.

Dr Elena: There are several advancements in this field. So, as I said, my PhD is also in stem cell biology. So, I was working with human embryonic stem cells in the lab, and what they can do on a dish is just mind blowing. Because what I was able to do was to take human embryonic stem cells, and then dictate their fate, basically, with different growth factors, and then differentiate them into neural precursors at first. And then to push them further in order to become terminally differentiated neurons. And like four weeks later, you basically have a human brain in a dish and it's a primary human cells. And it's an amazing, physiological irrelevant human platform as well to study disease. And this is what I was doing during my PhD.

So, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And every time I would do, I would go through this process, I would differentiate the human embryonic stem cells into neurons. It would be as exciting as the first time because of what it represents, because it does represent the progress that we've made so far. And I personally started human embryonic stem cells for the sake of drug discovery. So, I wasn't interested—my project was not focusing on different therapeutic applications. However, I know that there are many advancements in this field as well. So, we do have clinics in America, where you can have a total body rejuvenation, stem cells, and so on. And this technology is definitely advancing.

And I've been actually thinking about the application of this for myself. So as you know, I recently had a dental injury. This is something to keep in mind for the future. So perhaps in the near future, I can just inject myself with a bit of a stem cells there...

Lisa: And that’s already happening to a degree. I mean, I've got a doctor friend up north, who's doing stem cell replacement for joints, and so on, for degenerative joints. Because stem cells, basically, for people who don't understand why this is important. The stem cell is the original like cell, but before it decides, ‘Am I going to become a skin cell, or a neuron or a liver cell’, it differentiates. So, it's a pluripotent stem cell, it can become anything. And so, in the lab setting, you're going to be able to say, ‘Well I want your cell to become a liver cell’. Will we eventually be able to grow organs that can be used for transplantation? Is that sort of one of the end goals?

Dr Elena: Absolutely. And it's already been done with some organs. So for instance, I've heard that there is a research group that basically 3D-printed a functional thyroid gland from stem cells.

Lisa: Wow. 3D-printed. So, the printer gets these differentiated cells somehow, and then makes it into a functioning organ that they will eventually—they're going to be able to actually transplant this into people and save the whole organ donation, horrific troubles that we have currently.

Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly and I think that we're not too far away from this from whole organs being recreated in the lab. We already are able to actually do a 3D culture in the lab and create the so called organoids. So for instance, from stem cells, you can do a brain organoid, where you have a liposphere and it basically consists of different kinds of cells that you see in the brain. So it would have neurons, it would have glial, it will have astrocytes, and then it would have this brain organoid and then you can study it.

So, we're already getting there. We’re close, we’re much closer than we thought we were 20 years ago. And I think that we're not far away from having different kinds of organs being grown in the lab for transplants and so on.

Lisa: Hopefully not our brains because it's the seed of who we are. Honestly reading Dr Sinclair's book, I was like, ‘Am I in a Star Trek movie or something’? because it is pretty, pretty amazing. But when you do this, you also ask that to understand the whole process and how the whole thing functions, and then you can actually really slow down neurodegeneration and optimise things.

And so the NMN that we're talking about right now is the beginning of this really exciting road, which we're going to be staying abreast of. And hopefully adding to what we have available to the consumer right now for prices that are not moon money, that it's out of anybody's reach, but actually what you can do today so that you can preserve your health. So that in 10 years’ time, when the real crazy stuff starts coming on line, you'll be able to live longer and healthier lives. And that's the whole goal of it.

So before we just wrap up, I just wanted to reiterate again, so how is autophagy—can you just put that—how is autophagy related to NAD and sirtuin genes? Can you just put that two pieces together again, just repeat that a little bit?

Dr Elena: Sure. So basically, what happens is that you do need autophagy to recycle different damaged organelles in the cell when something goes wrong. So, and this is quite prominent in neurodegeneration because the reason we have—let's say, aggregate from proteins in neurons and dysfunctional mitochondria and so on is because neurons are terminally differentiated cells. This means that they don't divide anymore. So, they rely on autophagy in order to have their housekeeping function because they can't divide the junk away. Okay. So that's the reason why autophagy is important in terminally differentiated cells such as neurons.

Lisa: So there's no hay flick limit for a neuron. There is just only one—when a neuron becomes a neuron, that's a neuron. Okay.

Dr Elena: Yeah, yeah. And then that's it. And what happens with the activation of autophagy, one of the signals is—comes through sirtuin 1, which basically can activate the transcription factors that are related to autophagy activation, which is the TFEB transcription factor, EB and FOXO, which are basically influenced the activation of autophagy. And more specifically, the mitophagy as well. So, mitophagy is the arm of autophagy that is responsible for the mitochondrial clearance in the cell.

Lisa: Yep, so mitochondria, just for people, are the powerhouses of the cell. This is where a lot of—so all of the energy is produced, if you like. And so, this is why mitophagy, as opposed to autophagy, so mitophagy is doing the same process, but within the mitochondria to keep your mitochondria healthy. And if your mitochondria are not healthy, and they're dying, and you're not having enough mitochondria in your cells, then you are going to be sick. And that could be heart disease, it could be neurodegeneration, that could be anything. So, keeping your mitochondria healthy is the basis of all bloody disease, blatantly.

Dr Elena: Yeah, exactly. So then, if you have impaired autophagy in the cell, and then you also have some sort of DNA damage going on, such as the one from reactive oxygen species, for example. And then what you have is the activation of the PARP enzymes. And PARP enzymes heavily rely on NAD levels in the cell in order to function. And NAD is also a substrate for the sirtuin genes that are responsible for also regulating a bunch of very healthy, a bunch of processes in the healthy cell. And for this reason, if you do have increased activation of PARPS, you will eventually get this NAD drain out of the cell. And this will not be enough in order for the sirtuins to function properly. And this will also deplete your autophagy. So, both NAD levels and autophagy are important to the cell. And fortunately for us, we can actually replenish the levels of NAD by supplementing with an ad precursor such as an NMN.

Lisa: Okay, and so NMN has been proven to be by most of our bio available, because there's also like nicotinamide riboside which is used in a number of supplement companies that I know have nicotinamide riboside, but not many, there are some now, but have nicotinamide mononucleotide. Nicotinamide riboside is also a great molecule, but it's two steps away from becoming NAD. As long as it’s available.

Dr Elena: Yeah, so nicotinamide riboside needs to be phosphorylated and fast converted to nicotinamide mononucleotide first. And then this will enter the cell and then this will increase the levels of NAD in the cell. And for this reason—so first, this area of research was focusing on the NR molecule, the nicotinamide riboside. But then when they started studying NMN, they actually saw that there is increased bioavailability and there is increased levels of energy that come after supplementation with NMN.

Lisa: Can you take—because NAD is a molecule, you cannot just take it as a capsule, and then it's all good to go. Can you take it as an infusion because I have heard of NAD infusions. I mean, it’s not available here.

Dr Elena: Well, and I'm curious myself about this, and I haven't done it, I haven't tested it. And from what I've seen—so the concentration of NAD in those intravenous injections is quite low. And I think that the same way that we have many opportunistic companies in the supplement field, we also have many opportunistic clinics that offer this kind of treatments. So, again, this is not something that I have studied in depth, and I actually don't know how much will it help. But yeah, I mean, this is another way to boost NAD, I guess, and you can try it out.

But with oral administration of NMN, we do have evidence that it can boost the levels of NAD in the tissue and in liver tissue and muscle tissue, and so on. And also, it's much easier to do and it's obviously much cheaper because those injections cost a lot.

Lisa: Yes, yeah. Just one last question in relation to antioxidants, because I mean 10 years ago or so we used to think our reactive oxygen species ,oxidative stress happens through the electron transport chain. When we're metabolising, and so on, we get all these oxidative stresses and free radicals running around. And if we take antioxidants, we're going to be counterbalancing that. Does supplementing with antioxidants, like vitamin D, like glutathione, like vitamin C, and so on, alpha lipoic acid, is that going to contribute, too, to the slowing of aging, because it's going to down regulate the PARP enzymes?

Dr Elena: People were very optimistic about antioxidants, something like 20 years ago. And everyone was talking about it and so on. But actually, the big studies that have been done, have shown that by taking antioxidants, you actually do not suppress aging. And there are some biomarkers that might have changed in those studies. But most of the biomarkers that they measure stay the same. Basically, saying that antioxidant is not the...

Lisa: Not the holy grail.

Dr Elena: ...that everyone was thinking about.

Lisa: Was hoping, yeah. Not to say that antioxidants don't have their place because they definitely do. Especially if you have a lot of oxidative stress, and you need to, like with vitamin C, if you're infected, or—I've done a whole series on vitamin C. But then it's not the holy grail for stopping the aging process, but it probably does help with not having so much PARP activation. I don't know, as a non-scientific brain, I'm just connecting dots.

Okay, so I think it's probably we've— so from a lifestyle intervention, apart from taking NMN and resveratrol, and oleic acid or olive oil, intermittent fasting, is there anything else that we can add to our anti-aging regime on a lifestyle intervention side?

Dr Elena: Intermittent fasting, and then avoid exposure to sunlight, as we said. And sirtuin genes are being activated from any kind of stress. And what we can do is we can also induce some sort of an artificial stress, which could be done, let's say with cryotherapy. This is what cryotherapy does. When you're exposed to cold, you also have this stress signal that activates sirtuins, or the other way around, so you can try out a sauna. And this will also have the same effect. So, I think this is also something to keep in mind.

Lisa: Breathing, breathing. So, sort of tumour breathing, or, like what one half does all of that sort of stuff. So, there’s hormetic stressors, there’s exercise obviously, that cause a cascade of changes and make you stronger. And yeah, it's sort of a balancing act. You don't want to be doing exercise for Africa or really freezing yourself to death, but you just want to have a little stress to cause a change in the body. So these hormetic stressors can be very, very helpful.

Okay, well, I think we've covered a very, very, very complex topic and I hope we didn't lose everybody on the way. But at the end of the day, take NMN, take resveratrol, take olive oil, do your exercise, get in the sauna, if you have a chance to do cold therapy, do that as well. Get your exercise, get your antioxidants in there as well, to a certain degree and you're going to be able to live long enough but until other things come online, and you'll be able to improve everything.

Dr Elena: Sounds good.

Lisa: Brilliant. So Dr. Elena, thank you very much. Dr. Elena has been on the show, NMN Bio. So we have nmnbio.co.uk in UK and in Europe, and nmnbio.nz if you're down at this end of the world. We'd love to help you over the air. If you've got any other questions, please reach out to us. And thanks very much for being here today. It's been really exciting.

Dr Elena: Thank you, Lisa, thank you so much for having me.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We're often told not to care too much about what other people think of us. However, understanding how others perceive us can play to our advantage. Sometimes we fail to see our own mistakes or flaws, and to overcome this, we need to develop self-awareness by looking at ourselves from a different perspective. Once we realise our flaws, we can do better and achieve high performance.

Craig Harper joins us in this episode to discuss how self-awareness can lead to high performance. He also explains the importance of external awareness or the ability to understand how others perceive us. We also talk about events that changed our life perspectives and how to live aligned with our values.

If you want to increase your self-awareness and achieve high performance, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program optimising fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance for your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again. Still, I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes, chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection 'Fierce', go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover what external self-awareness is and how it can help you achieve high performance. 2. Find out why motivation alone doesn't work. 3. Learn how to live in alignment for a healthy and meaningful life.

Resources * The You Project Podcast with Craig Harper * The You Project #360: Embracing the Suck with Lisa Tamati * Check out Craig's books. * Connect with Craig: Website | Instagram | Linkedin * BrainPark

Episode Highlights [03:44] About Craig * Craig used to be the fattest kid in school until he decided to lose weight at 14 years old. * Curious about fitness and nutrition, he started working in gyms. * Craig eventually set up his first personal training centre in Australia. * At 36 years old, Craig went to university to study Exercise Science. * Realising the importance of understanding human behaviour, he's now taking a PhD in neuropsychology.

[08:58] External Self-Awareness * Being self-aware means understanding how other people perceive, process and experience you. * You can make better connections when you know what it's like for people to be around you. * Going into a situation assuming others have the same mindset can create problems. * Acknowledging your lack of awareness is the first step in overcoming it.

[15:20] On High Performance * High performance answers the question of how you can do better. * It applies to all aspects of life. * For Craig, high performance means getting the most out of your potential, resources and time. * Listen to the full episode to get a rundown of the principles you need to achieve high performance.

[16:14] Recognising Your Programming * Humans have the power to recognise and change how they see the world. * Because we do the same things daily, we fall into living unconsciously. * When our approach doesn't give us the results we want, it might be time to try something different. * It may be not easy, but going out of our comfort zones makes us stronger.

[28:43] Working Around Genetic Predispositions * What you're born with doesn't change the fact that your choices have power. * Focus on things you can control and own the situation at hand. * Be careful that self-awareness doesn't become self-deprecation. * From there, focus on how you can attain high performance.

[33:42] Reflecting on Your Relationships * Despite his nutrition expertise, Craig faces a constant battle to make good food choices. * Reflect on your relationship with food. Is it good or bad? Healthy or unhealthy? * You can apply this to other aspects of your life as well. * Doing this opens the door to self-management and self-awareness.

[37:51] Where People Get Their Sense of Self * We learn that self-esteem, self-worth and identity is an outside-in process. Craig's theory is that it's an inside-out process. * The external and observable things don't matter as much as the things happening internally. * Listen to the full episode to find out how two experiences in Craig's life put his life into perspective.

[1:00:38] Motivation Alone Doesn't Work * A lot of people rely on their current state of motivation to get things done. * What's important is how willing you are to put in the work despite the inconvenience and discomfort.

[1:02:25] Live in Alignment * Ask yourself if you're willing to put in the work to achieve your goals. * You can live in alignment with your values by following an operating system based on them. * Listen to the full episode to know the questions you need to ask yourself to create this operating system.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Firstly, I've got as many issues as anyone that I work with. And this is not self-loathing; this is me just going, "Okay, so how do I do better?" And this for me is the process of high performance’.

‘Nobody is totally objective or open-minded because the human experience is subjective’.

‘Real awareness and consciousness is to first be aware of your lack of awareness’.

‘The only person that can ever really get in my way is me, you know. But also, I'm the solution to me’.

‘So we get taught directly or indirectly that self-esteem and self-worth and identity is an outside-in process. My theory is that it is the other way around—it is an inside out journey’.

‘Of course, there's nothing wrong with building a great business... or whatever. That's not bad, but it's not healthy when that's the totality of who we are’.

‘I don't care what you get done when you're motivated; I care what you get done when you're not motivated because everyone's a champion when they're in the zone’.

About Craig Craig Harper is one of Australia's leading presenters, writers and educators in health, high performance, resilience, self-management, leadership, corporate change, communication, stress management, addiction and personal transformation.

Craig has been an integral part of the Australian health and fitness industry since 1982. He has worked as an Exercise Scientist, Corporate Speaker, Consultant, University Lecturer, AFL Conditioning Coach, Radio Host, TV Presenter, Writer and successful Business Owner. In 1990, Craig established Harper's Personal Training, which evolved into one of the most successful businesses of its kind.

Craig currently hosts a successful Podcast called 'The You Project'. He is also partnering with the Neuroscience Team at Monash University, where he's completing a neuropsychology PhD. There, he studies the spectrum of human thinking and behaviour.

Craig speaks on various radio stations around Australia weekly. He also hosted his weekly show on Melbourne radio called 'the Science of Sport' for a decade. Craig currently fills an on-air role as a presenter on a lifestyle show called 'Get a Life', airing on Foxtel.

As an Exercise Scientist, Craig has worked with many professional athletes and teams. While still working with groups and individuals regularly, Craig delivers more than one hundred corporate presentations annually.

Want to know more about Craig and his work? Check out his website, or follow him on Instagram and Linkedin!

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so that they can develop their self-awareness and achieve high performance.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. This week I have Craig Harper to guest. Now, Craig is a very well-known media personality, exercise scientist, crazy fitness guru, owns some of the biggest personal training gyms in Australia, has a huge track record as a corporate speaker, motivational speaker, worked with Olympians, worked with all sorts of athletes across a number of different sports. And he's absolutely hilarious. I really enjoyed this interview, I was on Craig's show a couple of weeks ago, The You Project, you can go and check that one out as well. A great podcast. And today we sort of did a deep dive into everything around self-awareness and understanding your potential and realising your potential. And just it was a really interesting conversation with a very interesting man. He's doing a PhD in understanding the experience that people have when they meet you. So, understanding how people see you. So it's a really interesting conversation. So, I hope you enjoy that.

Before we go over to the show, please give us a rating and review. We really appreciate any ratings and reviews that you give us. It's really hugely helpful for the show. It is a labour of love. We are about to if we haven't already, by the time this podcast goes live, developing a way that you guys can get involved as audience members of Pushing The Limits if you want to support the show. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, if you need help with your running or you need help with your health, then please reach out to us. You can reach us at lisatamati.com. You can check out our programmes on lisatamati.com. We have our epigenetics programme and our running programmes where we do customised run training systems, video analysis, working out a plan customised fully for you and you get a consult with me. We also do health optimisation, coaching. So if you are needing help with a really difficult health journey, then please reach out to us as well. Right, over to the show with Craig Harper.

Lisa Tamati: Well, welcome back everybody to Pushing The Limits. Today I have an hilarious, amazing, crazy, awesome guest for you, Craig Harper. Who doesn't know Craig Harper? If you're in Australia, you definitely know who the heck Craig Harper is. If you're in New Zealand, you probably know who Craig Harper is. And if you don't, you're about to find out. Welcome to the show! Craig, how are you doing?

Craig Harper: Now I feel like I've got to live up to some kind of bloody pressure, some expectation. Nobody knows me in New Zealand. Let's start, you do and your mum. That's about it.

Lisa: Me and mum, you left quite an impression on my mum.

Craig: And my family, and relatives, and a few randoms over here, know who I am. But thank you, Lisa, for having me on. I'm really glad to be here.

Lisa: It's awesome. Now, this is gonna be a bit of a hilarious show because Craig is a bit of a character. I was on Craig's show in Australia, The You Project and it was one of the most fun podcast interviews I've had. I mean, I love getting into the science and deep with stuff, but it was really fun to just slip my hair down so to speak and rant and rave a little bit in here, but it’s fun, so today there'll be no doubt a bit of it. Craig, can you tell the ones who don't know about you? You're in Melbourne or just outside Melbourne in Hampton, Victoria in Australia. Can you tell us a little bit of your background, your crazy amazing career that you have had?

Craig: Sure. So I'll start with, well, maybe I'll go a little bit before my career because what happened before was a bit of a catalyst. So I had a pretty good childhood, all that stuff. I won't bore the listeners. But one of the things that was part of my growing up was being a fat kid, the fattest kid in my school. So that became a bit of a catalyst for me to explore getting in shape and all that stuff. So when I was 14, I lost a whole lot of weight. I was 90 something kilos, I went down to about 60 and I started training.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: I started running and I started doing bodyweight stuff I lost about—I literally lost a third of my body weight in 15 weeks. And it wasn't like I had a horrible childhood, it was fine. But I was called jumbo all through school. That was my name so the kids called me that, parents, teachers all that but believe it or not, it wasn't really hostile, or horrible, it was I don't know it's because I was this big, fat, pretty happy kid, right? But anyway, so, I got in shape, and that led me into a lot of curiosity, and exploration, and investigation in fitness and nutrition. And so I started working in gyms when I was 18 and had no idea what I was doing. The qualifications and the barriers to entry then were very low. So, I started working in gyms, Lisa, when I was 18, which was 1982. I'm 57 and I ended up in 1989, I think, I set up the first Personal Training Center in Australia.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: So, lots of other things around that. But I owned PT studios for 25 years at the biggest centre in the southern hemisphere in Brighton a few kilometres from where I'm sitting now, which was 10,000 square feet. It was bigger than lots of commercial gyms. But it was just a PT centre. Worked with elite athletes, work with the AFL over here Australian Football League with St Kilda footy club, Melbourne Vixens in the national and the Trans-Tasman League, it was then Netball League, Melbourne Phoenix, Nissan motorsport, a bunch of Olympians, blokes in prison, corporates, people with disability, normal people, abnormal people. I put me in the abnormal category.

Lisa: Yeah, definitely.

Craig: And later on when—I didn't go to uni until I was 36 for the first time.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: Did a degree in exercise science. It was hilarious because I'd already been working with elite people as a conditioning coach and a strength coach. And yeah, lots of stuff. I did radio over here for about 20 years. I started my podcast a few years ago, I did television for a few years, three years on national telly. I wrote for the Herald Sun, which is the main paper in Melbourne for a while. Lots of magazines, I've written a bunch of books. I've written seven, I've written nine books, I think seven or eight of them are published. I'm looking at the books on my table, I should probably know that number.

Lisa: Can’t even remember, there's so many.

Craig: And, like, but really the thing that I guess where we might go today, but for me was, I realised by the time I was about 19 or 20 working in gyms, I realised that how much I knew about bodies wasn't nearly as important as how much I understood human beings. And so while my understanding of anatomy and physiology and biomechanics and movement and energy systems, and progressive overload, and adaptation and recovery, and all of those things wasn't great, to be honest, like I was 20.

Lisa: Yup.

Craig: But it was all right. And it improved over time. But what really mattered was how well I understood human behaviour. Because as you and I know, we can give someone a programme and direction and education and encouragement and support and resources, and not knowledge and awareness. But that doesn't mean they're going to go and do the work. And it definitely doesn't mean they're going to create the result. And it definitely doesn't mean they're going to explore their talent or their potential. And so yeah, it's been from when I was 18...

Lisa: So you've gone in it?

Craig: Yeah, from when I was 18 till now, it's just been lots of different roles and lots of different places. And I guess the other main bit before I shut up was I realised when I was about 20, that I didn't like having a boss much. And not that...

Lisa: We got that in common.

Craig: In my back, my boss was a good dude. But I thought I don't want to be, like, I could do this for me. I don't need to do this for you. And so the last time I had a boss was 32 years ago. So I've been working for myself since I was 25.

Lisa: Wow, that's freaking awesome. And what an amazing career and so many books, and I know that you're actually doing a PhD at the moment. So what's your PhD? And why did you choose this sort of a subject for your PhD?

Craig: Yeah, so my PhD is in neuropsychology/neuroscience. So, I'm at Monash over here, we have a facility called Bryan Park, which is cool. There's lots of cool stuff there. That's where I'm based. And my research is in a thing called external self-awareness, which is understanding the ‘you’ experience for others. So in other words, it's your ability to be able to understand how other people perceive and process and experience ‘you'.

Lisa: Wow, that is a fascinating subject.

Craig: Which is, very little research on it. So I'm, I've created a scale, which is to measure this component of psychology or communication or awareness. And so I'm doing—I'm putting that through the grill at the moment, getting that validated. I’m doing two studies. The first study is being run kind of soon. But yeah, the whole research is around this thing of ‘What's it like being around me and do I know what it's like being around me'? Not from an insecurity point of view, but from an awareness point of view because when I understand, for example, the Craig experience for Lisa or for an audience or in front of all for the person I'm coaching, or the athlete I'm working with, or the drug addict, the person with addictive issues that I'm sitting with, then if I understand what it's like being around me, I can create greater and deeper connection. But one of the mistakes that a lot of leaders, and coaches, and managers, and people in positions of authority make is that they assume that people just understand what they're saying. Or they assume that people think like them. When in reality, the only person who thinks exactly like me in the world is me.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And the only person who thinks like Lisa Tamati exactly all the time, 24/7 is Lisa, right?

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: So when I go into a conversation, or a situation, or a process, or a negotiation, or an encounter with somebody, and I assume that they think like me or understand like me, or that my intention is their experience, which is rarely the case, I'm more likely to create problems and solutions.

Lisa: Yeah. And you're not going to hit the nail on the head and actually get the results for where that person that you are wanting to get.

Craig: Yeah, and that is...

Lisa: This is a real powerful thing because you know what I mean, just maybe as you were talking there, I was like, ‘Well, how do people perceive me?', that's an interesting thought because you just sort of go through your daily interactions with people, and you think you're a compassionate, empathetic person who gets everything in, you’re sort of picking up on different cues and so on. But then to actually think how is that person experiencing me, and I like, as a coach, as I develop as a coach, I've had problems when I'm doing one on one, and that I'm overwhelming people sometimes because I'm so passionate and so full of information. And I've had to, and I'm still learning to fit that to the person that I'm talking to. And because, for me, it's like, I've got so much information, I want to fix you and help you. And I was like, ‘Woohoo', and the person was like, ‘Heh'.

Craig: So you and I connect because we're kind of similar, right? And I love that, I love your craziness and your energy, and you're full-onness. But you and I, unless we are aware around some people, we will scare the fuck out of them.

Lisa: Yup.

Craig: So, that's why it's important that people like—all of us really not just you and I, but that we have an awareness of what is the leisure experience for this because like, let's say, for example, you've got five athletes, and you want to inspire them and get them in the zone, motivate them, and they're all in front of you. And so you give all of them in the same moment. And let's say they're five similar athletes in a similar, if not the same sport with a similar goal—doesn't matter—but the reality is they are five different human beings, right? They've got five different belief systems and backgrounds and sets of values and prejudices and like and emotional states, and so you're not talking to the same person. But when you deliver the same message to five different humans, and you expect the same connection? We're not thinking it through.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: So and of course, you can't create optimal connection with everyone all the time. But this is just part of the, ‘What's it like? What's their experience of me like?' And again, it's not about ‘Oh, I'm insecure, and I want them to like me'. No, it's about, ‘I need to understand how they perceive and process me so that I can create connection'. And look, the other really interesting thing about psychology and the human experience, and metacognition, thinking about thinking more broadly, is that all of us think we're open-minded and objective, but none of us are. Nobody is totally objective or open-minded because the human experience is subjective.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: So, even me who understands this and is doing a PhD in it and teaches it. Well, people go back and you objective and I go, ‘No, I wish I was in it. I'd like to say I am because it sounds fucking great, but I'm not'. And the reason that I'm not is because wherever I go, my ego, my issues, my beliefs, my values, my limitations, my biases, go with me.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And they are the window through which I view and process the world, right?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: So, our ego wants us to say, ‘Of course, I'm objective. Of course, I'm open-minded'. But the truth is, and with some things, we will be more objective and open-minded because we don't really have a pre-existing idea about it. But on a global or a broad level, our stuff goes with us everywhere, and the beginning of, without getting too deep or philosophical, but awareness—real awareness and consciousness—is to first be aware of your lack of awareness.

Lisa: Love it. That is amazing. Yeah.

Craig: You can't overcome the thing you won't acknowledge, or you can't get good at the thing you won't do. Right? And so I have to go, 'Firstly, I'm flawed. Firstly, I've got as many issues as anyone that I work with.’ And this is not self-loathing, this is me just going, ‘Okay, so how do I do better?' And this for me, this is the process of performance, high performance, whether it's at sport, at life, at recovery, at relationships, at connection—doesn't matter—high performance is high performance. For me, high performance means getting the most out of you and your potential and your resources and your time.

Lisa: Yup.

Craig: And so the principles that work with becoming an elite athlete, most of those principles work with building a great business.

Lisa: Yep, they grow further.

Craig: Which is why physicians follow through, get uncomfortable, do the work, show up, don't give up, ask great questions, persevere, roll up your sleeves, pay attention to your results, improvise, adapt, overcome. Like, this is not new stuff.

Lisa: Know that it rolls off your tongue pretty damn well because you've been in this space for a long time. And a lot of us like to go into that whole, our bias and yell at the future that we see the world through the lens, which we look through. We're not aware like, we love the programming. And this is what I had done a lot of work on for myself, the programming that I got as a kid, that I downloaded into my subconscious is running the ship, basically, and I can, as an educated, hopefully, wiser woman now, go ‘Hang on a minute, that little voice that just popped up in my head and told me, ‘I'm not good enough to do that', is not me talking. That's the programme. That's the programme I downloaded when I was, I don't know, seven or eight or something. And it's a product of that conditioning.’ And I can actually go in, and then it's that to change that story. Because that, and I think a lot of us are just running on automatic, we're still playing.

I'll give you an example. So when my mum was a kid, she was up on stage and doing a speech at school when she froze, right? And she got laughed off the stage. And kids can be nasty. And so forever in a day, she was like, ‘I will not ever speak in public again'. Because she'd had this experience as a what, a seven or eight-year-old. And she was telling me the story as a 40-something, 50-something year-old. 'No, I'm not ever getting up in a public space because', and I'm like, 'But that's just—you are not that seven or eight year old now. And you can have a choice to make that changes', and she couldn't make that change until she had the aneurysm. And then she forgot all those memories, some of those memories were gone, and that inhibition was gone. And now she'll get up and talk on stage in front of like 500 doctors.

Craig: That's amazing. I love it. And what you just articulated beautifully. The core of a lot of what I do, which is recognising your programming and where does my stories, or my stories finish? And where do I start?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: So, you think about it, from everyone listening to this from when we could reason anything, or process any data around us or understand anything from when we—I don't know, two, three months, really probably earlier but until listening to this podcast right now, all of us have been trained, and taught, and told, and programmed, and conditioned. And then, now here we are. And it's being aware of that and me to everyone is like, ‘Well, my beliefs', like think about when did you choose your beliefs?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Pretty much never. They’re just there, and they’re there as a byproduct of your journey. Now that's okay, that's not bad or good. That's normal. Well, the next question is, are all of your beliefs, do they serve you? Well, the answer is no. Do any of them sabotage you? Well, a shitload! Okay, so let's put them under the microscope. So you know that word that I used before metacognition is, in a nutshell, thinking about thinking where and this is where we go, hang on. Let's just step out of the groundhog-dayness of our existence which you also spoke of, like, and let's go hang on. Because what we do, on a level we live consciously that is I've got to think about where I'm driving, and I've got to figure out what I'm giving the kids for dinner or what I'm getting, what time I'm training or, but really, on a real fundamental macro level. We live largely unconsciously...

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: ...because we kind of do the same shit the same way...

Lisa: Everyday.

Craig: ...same conversations, even you and I know. Like, I've been training in the gym since I was 14, that's 43 years, I watch people go to the gym who always do the same fucking workout.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Same rep, the same set, same treadmill, same speed, same inclines, same boxing, same everything, same intensity, same workload, same machines. And then they say, why isn't my body changing? Well because it doesn't need to.

Lisa: No. Given the status quo, you don’t.

Craig: Because you're stimulating it the same way.

Lisa: I was working in that for years.

Craig: And we can expand that to life. Whereas we, kind of, I was talking to a lady yesterday about this, and she was telling me about a conversation she has with her son who's got some issues, who's 17. And I will be really honest, ‘How many times have you had a version of that conversation with him?’ She goes, ‘1,000'.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: I go, ‘And how's that going?’ Now, that might be an exaggeration. But the bottom line is, but nonetheless, despite the fact that it didn't work the first 999 times, she's doing it again.

Lisa: She’ll keep doing it.

Craig: So it's about, and again, it's not about beating ourselves up, it's about gamble, whatever I'm doing, whether or not it's with this relationship, or this training programme, or this habit, or behaviour, or this business, whatever I'm doing isn't working. So let's have a new conversation or no conversation, or let's try a different protocol, or let's change the way I sleep.

Lisa: Isn't that like the circuitry in the brain, when you do something for the first time that’s really hard. Because you're creating a new connection in the brain. And therefore, we go into these old routines and habits, even though we don't want to be doing them anymore, but the groove and the brain is so well-worn, that path is so—those synapses of connected or whatever they do in there, and that path is so well-worn, that it's the path of least resistance for our lazy brains, and our subconscious to do what it does all the time. So, when you're driving a car home, and you can have a conversation and be singing a song, and thinking about what you're cooking for dinner, and then you get to halfway into town, and you realise, ‘Hell, I can't even remember driving there', but you were doing it, and you were doing it safely. Because it was all on that subconscious, automated level. When you were first driving the car, it was a mission. And it was like, ‘Oh my god, I got to change the gears and steer and keep an eye on,' and it was all like overwhelmed, but then it got easier and easier and easier. And then with our rituals and habits that we develop, we make these well-worn grooves, don't we? And then we just follow the same old, same old even though it's not getting the results that we want. And when we try and step out of our comfort zone and start doing a new habit and developing a new way, there's a lot of resistance in the brain for the first few weeks, isn't there? Until you get that groove going. And then it gets easier and easier and easier once you've done it 100 times. Is that what you're sort of saying here?

Craig: Yeah. I mean, that's perfect. I mean, you nailed it. Look, the thing is that everything that we do for the first time, for most of us, nearly everything, unless we've done something very similar before, but it's hard.

Lisa: Very.

Craig: So I always say everyone starts as a white belt. In the dojo, you start as a white belt.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: When as an ultramarathon, if I went, Lisa, which I wouldn't, but if I went, ‘I'm gonna run an ultramarathon'. Well, if I started training today, metaphorically, today, I'm a white belt.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: I'm a black belt at other stuff.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: I'm a green belt. I'm a yellow belt. Depends what I'm doing. Depends what—I'm not bad at talking to audiences that's... I should be pretty good at it. I've done it a million times. But take me to yoga, and I'll hide in the corner because I'm as flexible as a fucking ceramic tile. I’m a white belt. Right? I bet, put me in the gym lifting weights, I go okay, right? And so, again, this is all just about awareness, and development, and ownership. And, but the thing too, is that you're right, everything is very—we do create not only neural grooves, patterns, but also behavioural, and emotional, and cognitive grooves too, where we’re very comfortable in this space. And one of the challenges for us, it's like, it's a dichotomy. Because if everyone listening to this could somehow be involved and put up a show of hands, and we said, ‘All right, everyone. How many of you want to change something about your life or your outcomes or your situation or your body? Or your operating system or your current life experience?’ Nearly everyone's going to put up their hand.

Lisa: Yes.

Craig: For something, right? Something. Then if you said, all right, ‘Now, at the same time, be brutally honest with yourself, how many of you like being comfortable?’, everyone's gonna put up their hand. So the problem is, on the one hand, we say I want to be strong, and resilient, and amazing, and produce great results, and do great shit, and grow, and develop my potential and fucking kill it, and but I don't want to get uncomfortable. Well, good luck, princess, that isn't working. It doesn't work.

Lisa: The world’s a bitch really, isn't it? I mean, like it is the way it works. You need resistance.

Craig: How can you get strong without working against resistance?

Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

Craig: Yes.

Lisa: This is just the… in my boxing gym, there was a saying on the wall, ‘Strength comes from struggle', and it's just like, ‘Oh damn, that's so right'. Like it's not what we always want. And I wish sometimes that the world was made another way. But we constantly need to be pushing up against what hurts, what is uncomfortable, it's painful just from a biology point of view being in the thermonuclear range, being nice and comfortably warm and cozy is really bad for us. And for you in that all the time, we need to go into an ice bath or cold water or go surfing or something and get cold, we need to be hot, go into a sauna. And when you do these things outside of those comfort zones, we need to lift weights in order to build stronger muscles, we need to do fasting in order to have autophagy, we need—all of these things are those stuff that is outside of pleasant. And you better get used to that idea. It's not because I want to be, like, masochistic in my approach to life. But it's just the way that the world works. If you sit on your ass being comfortable eating chips all day watching Netflix, you're not going to get the results that you're looking for.

Craig: That's right. And also there's this—because we only live in the moment. And because we are, and I'm generalising, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners are not what I'm about to describe. But because many of us are very instant gratification based.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Right? It's like, the story is I'll eat this, I'll do this, I'll avoid that. But I'll start tomorrow, or I'll start Monday, or I'll start January 1. And that goes on for 15 years, right?

Lisa: Yep. We’ve all done it.

Craig: And now I've backed myself into an emotional, and a psychological, and physiological corner that's hard to get out of because now, I'm 49. And my body's kind of fucked. And I've got high blood pressure. And I've got all these issues because I've been avoiding, and denying, and delaying, and lying to myself for a long time. Again, this is not everyone, so please don't get offended.

Lisa: And It's not a judgment. It's just the way it goes.

Craig: No, because, I mean, this is what happens. Like, we live in this world where you can't say the truth.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And I'm not talking about being insensitive or moral judgments on people. But the thing is, it's like, when I talk about being fat, I talk about myself because then no one could get injured, insulted...

Lisa: Insulted, yup.

Craig: ...or offended, right. So when I was fat, I wasn't thick-set, or full-figured or voluptuous or stocky? I was fucking fat. Right?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And, but I was fat because of my choices and behaviours.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Now, there are lots of variables around that.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: But at some stage, we have to say, and again, there are people with genetics that make stuff difficult...

Lisa: Absolutely.

Craig: ...for medical conditions and all that we fully acknowledge that, but at some stage, we need to go, ‘Alright, well, I'm making decisions and doing things which are actually destroying me'.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: ‘They're actually hurting me'. And this is just about ownership and awareness and my, like, the biggest challenge in my life is me, the biggest problem in my life is me. Like, the only person that can ever really get in my way is me. But also, I'm the solution to me.

Lisa: I think it's a willingness to work on it. And like, I've looked into addictions and things quite a lot too, because I know that I have an addictive personality trait. I have genetics that are predisposed to that, and I do everything obsessively. So whether that's running for like a billion kilometres, or whether that's running five companies, or whether that's whatever I'm doing, I'm doing like an extreme version of that because it's just, like, I have that type of personality and it is genetics. And I find that that's one of the study of genetics for me, it's so interesting, there's a lot of predisposition in there. However, that does not negate the fact that I can still make choices, and I can turn the ship around. And I need to be aware of those predispositions, just like mum's got some predispositions towards cardiovascular disease and putting on weight very easily. That's just a fact of life for her, and it's not pleasant. And compared to other genetic types, it's a bit of a disadvantage. However, it is a fact. And therefore, she can still make the right choices for her body.

And this is why I like working in the genetic space is really, really powerful because then I can say, well, it's not my fault that my genes are like this, but they are what they are, and we can remove some of the judgment on ourselves because I think when we—if we're judging ourselves all the time, that's not helpful either, because that stuff we’re like, ‘Oh, well, I'm just useless. And then I'm never gonna do anything,’ rather than empowering and say, ‘Well, it is what it is, the genes that I've been given are these, the environment that I've exposed to is this, the advertising and all that sort of stuff that's coming at us with McDonald's on every street corner and all of that sort of stuff, I can't influence there. What I can influence is I can educate myself and I can start to make better choices from my particular body and start taking ownership of that process and not just going, well, it's not my fault that I'm bigger boned.’ You may be bigger-boned or bigger, have genetics that are all about conservation. Then you need to be doubly careful. And put in the education, and the time, and the work, and I think it's about taking ownership and not judging yourself by getting on with the job. Like I know, like, I know my own personal and—what did you say to me the first time I met you? Something that was real self-aware anyway, without self-deprecating, and it was self-aware? I can't remember what it was that you said, it is a man who knows his own weakness and is working on it. And I think that's really key. Like, I know what I'm shit at and...

Craig: And that’s not self-loathing, that's self-awareness. And here's the thing, we're all about learning and growing. And I love my life, and I'm aware that I've got some skills and gifts. I'm also aware that I've got lots of flaws and shit I need to work on. And for some people, that's part of just the journey for other people, they are in a bit of a groundhog day. I always say if you're in a bit of a groundhog day, but you're happy then stay there. Because don't change because this is how I—don't be like me, for God's sake be like you. But if being like you, if your normal operating system equals anxiety, and sleeplessness and a bit of depression, and a bit of disconnection, and I'm not talking purely about mental health, I'm just talking about that state that we all get in, which is a bit like, ‘Fuck, I don't love my life, this wasn't where I thought I would be.’

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Then maybe start to work consciously on and acknowledge, there's some things that you can't change, some you can, and literally what you were talking about a minute ago, which is literally, ‘Okay, so there's what I've got, which is I've got these genetics, I've got 24 hours in a day. I'm 57. I've got this, these are the things I have, then there's what I do with it all.’ So I'm an endomorph. I walk past a doughnut, my ass gets bigger. That's my body type, right? So I need to go, ‘Alright, well with these, or with this disposition, how do I manage optimally with 24 hours in a day without them using the least?’

Lisa: You’ve done a lot by the little sea, Craig.

Craig: How do I manage my 24 hours optimally?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: How do I? It's like, I eat two meals a day. I don't recommend anyone else does that.

Lisa: For even the most, it’s great.

Craig: But for me, I don't…

Lisa: For an endomorph, that’s great.

Craig: I’m an 85-kilo dude with a bit of muscle. I don't need much food. Like, I would love to eat all the fucking food because I love food. What happens when I eat what I want versus what I need is I get fat. So I differentiate between: what does my body need to be lean, strong, functional, healthy versus what does Craig the fucking ex-fat kid want to inhale?

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Because, and the other thing too. And this is probably a bit irrelevant. Maybe relevant, though, for a lot of people. Like I would say, of the people that I've worked with closer over the years, which is thousands and thousands.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: I would say most people, including me, have a relationship with food that’s somewhere on the scale between a little bit disordered and an eating disorder, right?

Lisa: Yup.

Craig: And a little bit not always...

Lisa: I’ll cook my end up then. It’s always an issue.

Craig: At the other end of the scale, I'm a fucking lunatic around food, right? Now, you're educated, I'm educated, but I tell people all the time. So if I was an addict, and by the way, I've never drank, never smoked, never done drugs. But if I have started drugs or alcohol, I would have probably...

Lisa: Done it well.

Craig: ...a drunk and used for Australia, right? I probably would have been a champion because I'm like you. I'm addictive. Now my addiction is food. So you know people think, ‘But you're educated. But you're this, you're that.’ It doesn't matter. Like, I need to manage myself.

Lisa: Still won’t hit pie.

Craig: Yeah, I need to manage myself around food.

Lisa: Yeah, daily.

Craig: Because if I open the cheesecake door, get out of the fucking way.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Right?

Lisa: I hear you.

Craig: If I open certain doors that derails me, so I need to know. And this is the same with everybody. And it's like, we all have a relationship with food. Okay. Is yours good or bad? healthy or unhealthy? Don't overthink it, just be real. We all have a relationship with our body. How’s that going? We all have a relationship with exercise, activity movement. How’s that going? We all have a relationship with money. We all have a relationship with our ego. It's like, this is opening the door on self-awareness and self-management law to a new level.

Lisa: Yeah, love it. Yeah, and this is going to be a fascinating PhD. I really—I can't wait to find out more about it. And I think just having that self-awareness, like I will freely say like, I've struggled with my body image, and who I am, and am I acceptable, and I was always trying to be the skinny little modern girl when I was young, and gymnast, and as a kid, and so struggled immensely with body image issues. And people will look at me now and they go, ‘Oh, whatever, you're lean and you're fit obviously and you don't ever—you wouldn't understand.’ Oh, you have no idea how much I understand. And there's still a constant daily battle: even though I'm educated, even though I know exactly what I should be and shouldn't be doing, I don't always succeed against my —that in a sort of drive that sometimes when you get out of balance, and this is why for me like keeping myself, when I say imbalance, I mean like keeping my neurotransmitters under wraps like in a nice, ordered fashion because I have a tendency to dopamine and adrenaline being my dominant hormones, right?

So I'm just like, go, go, go! Do your absolute blow, take a jump and risk, don't think about it, do go and then burn out, crash bang! And so I need to, I need to have constant movement, I need to do the meditation thing regularly. Like before this podcast, I took five minutes to get my brain back into this space because I wanted to do a good interview. And I wasn't going to do that in this stressed-out body, I'd been doing too much admin work for 10 hours. So, I know how to manage those things. And it's the management on an everyday basis that I think and having those tools in your toolkit so that you know how to pull it up, I can feel my adrenaline going, I can feel the anger rising, I better go for a sprint out to the letterbox and back. Whatever it takes. Does it resonate with you?

Craig: Yeah, 100%. What's interesting is I've been around—I worked, one of the things I didn't mention, I worked at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation centre for three years just as their kind of, what’s my title? Buddy health something, manager something, but I would only work there one day a week with them, but work with lots of addicts and alcoholics, and also athletes and all those things. But the thing is, especially with athletes, athletes tend to get their sense of self and their identity from their performances.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: And not all, but a lot, and which is why I've known many athletes who got retired earlier than I thought.

Lisa: Broke down.

Craig: And well, they went into straightaway, most of them a depression or form of depression. And so this is a really interesting thing to just talk about briefly is—from a happiness and a wellness and a cognitive function, and a mental health, emotional health point of view, is to think about where you get your identity and sense of self from. Now, one of the challenges for us is, we live in a culture which is very much externally focused.

Lisa: Totally.

Craig: So who you are, Lisa, who you are is what you have, and what you own, and what you wear, and what you look like, and what people think of you, and your brand, and your performance, and your outcome. All things, your shit. And I grew up in that because I was an insecure, fucking fat kid who became an insecure, muscle-y bloke. And then I woke up one day, I was 30. And I was huge, and I had muscles on my eyelids and veins everywhere. And all I was was just a bigger, more insecure version of what I used to be. Because I was still a fuckwit just in a bigger body, right? Because I wasn't dealing with the issues. Because my problem wasn't my biceps or deltoids and being my problem is, I'm mentally and emotionally bankrupt, and perhaps spiritually depending on your belief system. And so, we get taught from an early age that who you are essentially is about all things external. So we get taught directly or indirectly that self-esteem and self-worth and identity is an outside-in process.

My theory is that it is the other way around. It is an inside-out journey. It is, it's differentiating between who I am and my stuff, and recognising that everything that I have and own, and earn, and do, and my profile, and my podcast, and my results, and my brand, and my house, and my biceps, and all those physical, external observable things don't matter nearly as much from a mental and emotional health point of view as what is happening internally.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: So, and I'll shut up after this.

Lisa: No, that’s brilliant.

Craig: But this is cool not because I'm sharing it, just this idea is cool, is that is the duality of the human experience. And what that means is that we live in two worlds. So where we do life is in this physical external place of situation, circumstance, environment, traffic lights, other humans, government, COVID, weather, runners, running, sport, all that external stuff, which is not bad. It's awesome, but that's where we do life. But where we do our living, where we do living is that inner space of feelings and ideas and creativity and passion and fear, and depression and anxiety and hope and joy, and overthinking and self doubt and self-loathing, and excitement and creativity.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: It's trying to understand—because you and I know, at least a few people, maybe many who from the outside looking in their life is fucking amazing.

Lisa: Yeah, yeah.

Craig: It's the Hollywood life.

Lisa: It’s so nearly like that.

Craig: It's a life on the outside of shiny.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: But I've coached many of those people, trained them, worked with them, set with them. And not all, of course, some are great. But there are many people who from the outside looking in, you would go, they're really successful. That would be the label that we use in our culture.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Why are they successful? Oh, look at all of their stuff.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: All of that stuff. Those outcomes, that house and that equals that money, that equals success. But when you sit in, you talk to that person, you go, ‘Oh, this successful person doesn't sleep much, this person needs to medicate to sleep, and also for anxiety, and also for depression. And also they hate themselves, and also they feel disconnected, and also they're lonely.’ And, or if not all of that, some of that, if not all the time, some of the time, and you got all the outside and the inside don’t match.

Lisa: Don’t unlatch. Yeah.

Craig: And so it's going. And by the way, of course, there's nothing wrong with building a great business and writing five books and being an awesome runner, or whatever, building an empire. That's not bad. But it's not healthy when that's the totality of who we are.

Lisa: Yeah, and spending time on the inside, and being okay with who you are. Because I often ask myself this question. What if it was all taken away from me again and I've lost—I went through my 30s, lost everything, hit start back from scratch. We've been there, done that. I've had to go through the wringer a couple of times. If everything was taken off me, my house, my achievements, my business, which could happen tomorrow, who am I? And would I be able to get back up again? And I reckon I would, because I've got tools to rebuild. And I know that resilience is the most important thing.

Craig: Yeah.

Lisa: The question I ask myself sometimes, so, is it whether, like, I lost my father this year, last year, sorry, six months ago, so that knocked the crap out of me...

Craig: 100%.

Lisa: ...out of my resilience because that was like, up until that point, it didn't matter. If I lost my job, my car, my career, and anything else, but my family were safe, and they were all alive, then that's all I needed. And then when the chief gets taken out, the cornerstone who'd been a rock, my mum was too, but that was a cornerstone, then it didn't, it was a bit of an existential bloody crisis for me because I was like, ‘And now, life is never going to be the same again.’ And that resilience, I really had to dig deep to stand back up again. And I think, so grief is one of those things. So I asked myself constantly, and one of the reasons I drive myself so hard is to protect my family, and to look after them, make sure I don't miss anything. And this one of the things I study so hard for. Just sharing a personal story there to sort of get people to understand, ‘If you lost everything, could you get back up? What would it take to break you?’ That nearly broke me, to be brutally honest.

Craig: Well, I say to people who are in a bit of a—and thanks for sharing that, and sorry about your dad. God bless him.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Like, I say to people, ‘Okay, let's forget all the fucking KPIs and the deck and success mantras and all right, that's good.’ I can stand in front of people and motivate, and inspire, and make them laugh, and tell stories. And that's all good. But I go, ‘I've got three words for you one question three words. And the three words and the one question are, what really matters?’ Now, what really matters is not your fucking tally. It's not your bank balance. It's not your biceps. It's not your hair colour. It's not your fucking lippy, or it's in my case, it's not your abs or and none of those things of themselves are bad. But I've been really lucky that I've worked with people who are in a really bad way, people in prison who got themselves there, of course, but then probably more impact for me was people with really bad injuries.

Lisa: That’s amazing.

Craig: I work with a bloke at the moment, a mate of mine who got blown up in an accident. I trained him three days a week, and he was literally given zero chance of living like, or having any function similar to your mum.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: And he started. He was in, like your mum, he was in a coma. I started, they said he'd be a quadriplegic. If he—firstly, they said he wouldn't live, and he lived in our luck out, mesmerised how that happened.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Got through the operations, he got blown up by gas bottles, which were in the back of his unit while he was driving.

Lisa: Oh my god.

Craig: That blew the car apart, that blew the roof off, they shattered windows for 800 meters in the houses. And he was given zero chance of living. And he was in a coma for a long time. And I'll go in and talk to him. And when he obviously was not awakened, all the stuff that you did, and I just say to him, that I don't know, like, that'd be gone. I don't know. Like, I don’t be guessing. I don't know, I might just get well enough to get out of here. And I'll start training him. I started training him in a wheelchair, with a broomstick. And so and the broomstick literally weighed, I don't know, maybe 100 grams. And so I would put the broomstick in his hands. And I would pull his hands away. So his arm’s away from his body.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: And I'd say now try and pull that towards you.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: And that's where we started.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: With a 100-gram broomstick.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Now it's three and a bit years later, I've trained him for three and a bit years.

Lisa: Wow.

Craig: He is now walking with sticks. He drives himself to the gym. His brain function is fucking amazing.

Lisa: Oh my god.

Craig: He’s still in constant pain. And he's got a lot of issues. But the bottom line is the dude who they went, you will never ever walk, you will never talk.

Lisa: You’ll never survive.

Craig: They'll never be any—you'll never have any function, right?

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: So my two big perspective givers. That's one and the other one is—so...

Lisa: What a dude.

Craig: What’s that?

Lisa: What a legend.

Craig: Yeah, he's amazing. He's amazing. So about 14 months ago, I was at the gym and I was training with my training partner, who's like me and he’s all buffed. He's in good shape. He’s fit. He doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, him and I are very similar. Anyway, one of the stupid things that he does is he takes I don't want to get in trouble. But he takes pre-workout, doesn't do drug. Don't do anything. I don't know. But anyway, he took a pre-workout. We're training and he's doing a set of chins. And he did 30 chins, Lisa, and he held his breath for the whole time because that's what he does. He thinks he gets more reps when he holds his breath. By the way, folks, not a great plan. Holds his breath for 30 reps.

Lisa: He’s training his chemoreceptors. This for sure.

Craig: Yeah, comes down, falls on his face on the floor. And I think he's having a seizure.

Lisa: Oh.

Craig: And it had an instant cardiac arrest.

Lisa: Oh my god.

Craig: So, not a heart attack, a cardiac arrest. So, his heart stopped. So it took me kind of 20 seconds to realise it was that, and not... And there was—I won't describe what was going on with him.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: But as you can imagine, turning all kinds of colours...

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: ...stuff coming out of his mouth. It was messy, right?

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: So, he was dead for 17 minutes.

Lisa: Oh, my God.

Craig: I worked on him for 10 until the ambos got there or the paramedics and God bless him. fricking amazing. But what's interesting is in that, firstly, that 17 minutes could have been 17 days. That's how clearly I remember those minutes.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And I'm on the floor, kneeling down next to one of my best friends in the world.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: And I'm doing compressions and breathing, and I'm trying to save his life.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And it's funny how in that moment, everything comes, without even trying, to everything comes screamingly into perspective about, ‘What is bullshit?’

Lisa: Yes.

Craig: What matters?

Lisa: Yes.

Craig: What fucking doesn't matter?

Lisa: Yes.

Craig: What I waste energy and attention on. And literally those seven, eight minutes. I mean, I think I had pretty good awareness but they really changed me.

Lisa: Yeah. I hear you.

Craig: Nothing matters except the people I love.

Lisa: Exactly.

Craig: I'll figure the rest out.

Lisa: Yep. It's an amazing story. Did he survive?

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's five-to-two here in Melbourne.

Lisa: And he's waiting for you?

Craig: We're training at five.

Lisa: Brilliant. Say hi for me.

Craig: He’s still an idiot.

Lisa: He’s awesome, he's lucky he got you.

Craig: He’s still an idiot, but at least he prays when he chins.

Lisa: Yeah, but like just the experience I went through with my dad. And I haven't done a whole podcast on it, and I tend to, because the two weeks fighting for his life in the hospital and fighting up against a system that wouldn't let me do intravenous vitamin C in that case that I was trying to because he had sepsis, and fighting with every ounce of my body and every ounce of my will, and in knowing that, and for those—it was 15 days that we were there, and they all blend into one because there was hardly any sleep happening in that time, a couple hours here and there and I'd fall over. But they changed me forever, in the fact that because I'm a fixer, I like to fix things and people.

And when we're in the fight, I’m the best person you want in your corner of the ring. If we're in a fight for your life, or not as an, like, I'm a paramedic, but if you want someone to fight for you, then I’m the biggest person to have in your corner. But when we lost that battle, man, I was broken. And to actually not to come out the other side and to have that win and to get him back and to save his life, especially knowing I had something that could have saved his life had I been able to give it to him from day one. And you said that about your friend who got blown up and you said, ‘Just get out of here, mate, no, take it from there.’ And that's what I was saying to my dad. And as he had, ‘You just get yourself—you just hang in there, dad, because I will do what I can do here, and I've got all my mates and my doctors and my scientists all lined up ready to go. As soon as I get you the hell out of this place, I will do whatever it takes to get you back.’ But I could not do anything in a critical care situation because I had no control over him, his body, what went into him. And it was a—he was on a ventilator and so on. And so that was out of my control, you know? And that's fricking devastating.

Craig: Yeah.

Lisa: To know that and to feel that.

Craig: How did that change you? Like, how did that change you in terms of...

Lisa: It's still an evolving process I think, Craig, and there's a burning desire in me to get that changed in our ICU for starters, to get recognition for intravenous vitamin C, which I've done like a five-part series on my podcast for status, but I'm working on other ideas and projects for that because we're talking thousands and thousands of doctors and scientists who have the proof that this helps with things like sepsis, like ADS, like pneumonia, and it's just being ignored. And it's, we’re just 20 years behind this is one of the reasons I do what I do, is because I know that the information, like going through that journey with my mum too, the information that latest in clinical studies, all of what the scientists are doing now and what's actually happening in clinical practice are just worlds apart. And with like a 20-year delay in from there to there, and the scientists are saying this, and the doctors at the cutting edge are saying this. And so things have to change. So that's changed me in a perspective because I've never been a political person. I don't want to really get—I love being in the positive world of change, and it's, do things. But I do feel myself going into this activism space in a little way because I need to get some changes happening and some systematic things and you know you're up against the big fight.

Craig: Yeah.

Lisa: This is a big base to take on. But I'll do what I can in my corner of the world, at least but it has changed. And all that matters to me now is my family and my friends, and then from a legacy perspective, is impacting the world massively with what I do know and the connections that I do have and bringing information like we've been hearing today and these very personal real stories to people's ears because it changes the way people have their own conversations and hence start to think.

Craig: Well, I think also, and thanks for sharing that. That's it. Somebody's got to step up, and you're stepping up and quite often the things that we need to do to live our values are not the things we want to do.

Lisa: No, scary.

Craig: Like, Fuck this. Yeah, I'd rather watch Netflix too. But that's not what I'm about. So it's good that you recognise that and you step into that, but I think what's encouraging about this conversation for everyone is that neither of us, well, I was gonna say, particularly special, you're quite special with what you do. But even with what you do, as an elite athlete, really, you've just put in an inordinate amount of work. Like, you've done all of the things required to become elite and to become an exception, but in many other ways, like with me, you've got issues and bullshit and flaws. And that's why I think—I'm not saying this is a great podcast by any means that or this is great conversation because that's very fucking self-indulgent. But what I mean is, I think people connect with podcasts, conversations that are just that.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Where it's not like two people who are...

Lisa: Scripted.

Craig: ...just shooting off like experts. It's like, yeah, we're both figuring it out, too.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And by the way, I'm a dickhead too. By the way, I don't know, I've got a lot of shit wrong. Don't worry about that. It's like, I'm just having my best guess. And I always say, even as a coach, I've never changed anyone. All I've done is influenced people, but I've never done the work for them. They've always done the work. So, everyone that I've coached that succeeded, it's because they did the work. Like I didn't run the race. I didn't lift the weight. I didn't play the sport. I didn't go to the Olympics. I didn't walk out onto the arena. I didn't do anything. I'm just the guy going, ‘Fuck, come on, you can do it.’ And like, here’s a plan and here’s—it's like, I'm just the theory guy. I don't put it into—the only life that I put it into practice in is my own.

Lisa: Yeah. And that's powerful. And as a role model, too. I mean the shape that you're in and the stuff that you do, and you walk the talk, and those are the people that I want to listen to. And those are the people I want to learn from.

Craig: Well, my dad, my dad used to say to me, a couple of it, my dad's like a cranky philosopher. But he used to say to me a couple of things. This is irrelevant. The first one but it's, ‘You can't go to university and get a personality', right. Which is funny because my dad's like, ‘And university, it's overrated'. I agree, dad.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Second thing.

Lisa: For most things.

Craig: Second thing. He used to say, ‘I wouldn't trust accountants or financial planners who weren't rich'.

Lisa: Or trainers who are overweight.

Craig: It's like, I remember him saying to me, like a friend of his disrespect Toyota, but not a friend, but a dude he knew. He was a financial planner or an accountant. And he used to drive this old beaten up Corolla, and my dad's like, ‘Why would I listen to him?’ Like, look what he drives, like, if he knew anything about making money or maximising whatever.

Lisa: He’s got a point. He’s got a point.

Craig: So, yeah, I think the thing isn’t—when I listen to somebody like you, apart from being an elite athlete, what I know is that it's not like you've been given this gift, and you've just milked the gift. I know, you've obviously got a talent and a gift. But also what you've done is maximise everything around that from nutrition, and sleep, and supplements, and recovery, and decision making, and periodisation, and planning and prep.

Lisa: Yeah, I’ll swipe a stimulus for a long period of it.

Craig: And you've done all the work around, like, a lot of people are gifted, but don't do anything with it. Like a lot of people have got potential.

Lisa: Huge, huge and I have no potential, I had no talent, I really didn't, and I still don't but I did hear that just persistence. And I think one of the biggest things in life is persistence. And not expecting, like, how I hit a, so I'm doing this anti-ageing supplements that I've got coming in that I'm importing into the country called NMN, amazing. I've looked into science, I know what I'm talking about. I know these things are good, right? I get a client, they’re taking the supplements for three days. And then they're like, ‘Oh, it's not working.’ Like that sort of sums up a lot of people's approach to fitness and health.

Craig: Yeah.

Lisa: And looking for the pill that does it in three days. They're looking for that one workout that's going to change them and they're going to look like it's gonna happen, instead of the fact that it's a multi-pronged approach. You have to check a whole lot of other things to get some of it to stick, and you have to keep throwing it forever, not just one. It's a constant persistence set that sees success. I mean, that was definitely with your mate that had that got blown up and with mum, it wasn't one therapy that got them there. It wasn't one therapy that got mum where she is, it was this and plus that plus this plus that. And then we went backwards here. And then we tried that, and that was a dead end. And that wasn't too good. But overall, we kept going, and at the end of the day success and then ongoing work.

Craig: 100%. Well, I always say to people, I don't care what you get done when you're motivated, I get—I care what you get done when you're not motivated, because everyone's a fucking champion when they're in the zone.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: That it's about your ability to persevere, persist, do the work. It's how effective and proactive and productive you can be when you're not inspired. Because the problem is that a lot of us rely on this state of motivation. And in this sense, I'm talking about that emotional state, excitement, arousal, I mean, there's, whenever I heard Lisa, I heard Lisa talk, and I was pumped, but the next day, I wasn't pumped, so it didn't do it. So there's this. And it's interesting because I get pigeonholed in corporate as a motivational speaker.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And one of the first things I say is that motivation doesn't work.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: And people look with dismay, but ‘Aren’t you a motivation...?’ I go, look, you might get inspired or motivated while I'm here. And if that's happens, that's cool. But what I actually care about is what you do, I care about your behaviours, your choices, and your ability to keep doing what success demands when you can't be stuffed. Because that's more important than me inspiring you for an hour or a day.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: Because everyone can get it, which is why everyone makes the, not everyone, but a lot of people start a new year's resolution with this whole story and whatever and it’s like well, January one's the day. And that's just a story: January 3 is too late and December 28 too early. Because and it all, this is all bullshit psychology. But we think that magically, it's got something to do with a day or a date. Well, now it's got everything to do with you and nothing to do with the calendar.

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: Everything to do with: do you really want to do that thing? Because that thing you want to do is hard, and uncomfortable, and inconvenient, and uncertain. And it probably won't be fun, quick, easy or painless, the journey.

Lisa: And very expensive often as well along the way.

Craig: That's right. And so with all of that in mind, do you still want to do this thing?

Lisa: Yep.

Craig: And the answer is ‘Nah’ most of the time.

Lisa: And are you willing to put in the work? Every time you take on a project, every time you do something, it is going to set you, it's going to cost you somewhere else in your life. So you have to decide, yes, a lot of people say why aren't you doing ultras anymore because I've got other priorities. And I could be a selfish person and carry on doing the same old, same old and not be learning and developing anymore. Or I can be doing something that's actually going to benefit my family, my audience, my crew, me in another way, and it's more beneficial. ‘Oh, but don't you miss it?’ No, no, I don't. I've been there, done that. That was that time. And this is this time. And I think having that confidence to say that, took a couple of years to say that and to be okay with it. But I think that that's an important thing, too.

Craig: Well, for me, that's maturity and growth and so, what will work for you? What worked for me when I was 30, in terms of what I was doing lifestyle work, and it was awesome. But it didn't work for me when I was 40.

Lisa: No.

Craig: It doesn't work. And it's not good or bad. We just change and I've—what I do now, like, for example, what works for me, which is working independently, having a recording studio at home, I've got two offices at home, upstairs I've got an office, outside I've got an office called the Zen den–internal and external–and the way that I work which is no holiday pay, no sick pay, no guarantees. I don't know how much I'm gonna make this year. I don't know what bookings I'm gonna get. Fuck all that. There's so much uncertainty. Most people would hate my life, but I fucking love it. So, it's trying to figure out what's my best operating system based on me, life values, what I love, what I want to do, be, create and bring to the world. How do I want to serve? How do I want to show up? What do I want to be, and how do I live my truth and how do I live my purpose and how do I live my values and how do I walk the talk and yeah, I'm going to stuff up and but and then based on all of that what is my operating system need to be and once we start to get—we talk about this idea a lot in self-help and whatever about living in alignment, I get asked a lot what that means. And for me, all it means is living your values. That's it: what are your values? Create an operating system that reflects those values, you're in alignment.

Lisa: Yeah. And it is like this entrepreneurs were both in that same sort of space, we're creating our own world, doing this podcast, for example. It is, you have to be pretty brave and courageous, and sometimes stupid because it's a scary road out there, but I wouldn't have it any other way. And I can't work for anybody else. So I think it's a bit of a rebellious spirit in me, and it just doesn't want to be told what to do. And so I like to run my own ship. And sometimes that ship has sunk along the way. And sometimes it's been very successful. So you just have to pitch in living. Like, I just could not live in a corporate setting. Like my dad wanted me to be an accountant. Oh, my God, I would have died as an accountant. I would have been long dead because I would have just not wanted to live with that was my life and no, no offence to accountants. Great profession, we need them. But not for me, and I had to be my own person and run my own ship. And that's hard sometimes it would be—I sometimes think, God would be hell of a lot easier to go with someone else, and the hours I have to do and the amount of work I have to do and the mistakes that I've made, and the money I've lost and the education I've had to invest in, and the years and years of development, but oh man, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Craig: Yeah, that's because, for you, it's not about money. Money is one of the things but if someone said to me, ‘Craig, you can make twice the money, but you've got to drive to work, sit in a cubicle and do ABC, you'll make double the money.’ I'd be like, not only am I not interested, I wouldn't even give that one second of consideration. Because for me, it's about my life experience. If my costs are covered, other than that, I'm good.

Lisa: Yeah. As long as when it, yeah.

Craig: Like, I live the cheapest life of all time. I literally drive a $20,000 Suzuki, I spend 23 hours a day in bare feet. I walk around with $10 shorts, I go to the gym every day. All I do is talk to people and think about the meaning of life and do my research. And my life is fucking awesome.

Lisa: Yeah.

Craig: Like I don't need more stuff like, we tell ourselves this story about all the shit we need. You don't need it.

Lisa: Yeah, you don't need the fancy watches and the fancy clothes.

Craig: I used to do it, I tried it. I always say to people, I tried being selfish. I gave it a really good go for a long time. It didn't work.

Lisa: And in the simple life, I mean, somebody, if you if that's what floats your boat, then cool have all that stuff. But for me it's, I've got sponsored clothes, I've got a $2,000 car, I don't care. It skips me from A to B, as long as it doesn't break down. You know what I mean?

Craig: Yeah.

Lisa: It's not where my values lie. It's not who I am as a person. And if you are judging, you know how successful I am by the car I drive? Well, jeez, I’m not doing too well.

Craig: I mean, but exactly. But people know who you are beyond what you drive or what your own. It's like the prize is you, like, you're amazing. You're shit’s amazing. Your message, your inspiration, your energy. It is amazing. Like, you're great. And I'm not pissing in your pocket, you're great. I've told a hundred people about you, so.

Lisa: I really appreciate it.

Craig: No, you're awesome. I love it.

Lisa: And likewise, and I think the, like, being on your show, just what was it a week or week and a half ago, like, I've just had such a response from there because you have such a big following. And you have such a big following because you do an amazing job. And you're funny. And I could learn a bit on the funny side, I think that would be helpful.

Craig: Could you work on that a bit? [1:09:04 unintelligible]

Lisa: Yeah. I’m a bit serious. I'm really too serious. I like to be cheeky.

Craig: You know what I think is that I always think, like, if I'm going to go talk to an audience, and this, and all I've got is information and data and facts. I'm not going to create a whole lot of connection. But if there's stories and a bit of humour, as well as some quality information, if you can create an emotional connection with people, then the teaching and the sharing of thoughts and ideas is much easier. And I, no, don't set out to get a laugh or but it's like I know if I sit and listen to a speaker who to me, that person he or she is engaging. I mean, but if I listen to someone who's got three PhDs and a fucking Nobel Prize, but they're boring, I'm out. It doesn't matter, I'm like, fuck, dude. Come on. I'm nodding off. It's like because you want to, I mean, ultimately, we're still emotional, social creatures. And we want to be a bit amused and entertained.

Lisa: That’s true.

Craig: And we want to connect with the person who's in front of us.

Lisa: And that's a good teacher that can bring across the passion, and if it's through humour. If it’s through just a really engaging style, then that's fantastic. Hey, Craig, I know you got to get to another appointment. And I've really taken up a lot of your time today. But I just want to thank you, and I can't wait to do a few more things with you. I don't know what and we're in COVID, and all that sort of jazz account pops over and says, ‘Yeah, I'd love to'. But I hope we can do some more stuff together. I think what you're doing is fabulous. Your PhD sounds absolutely fascinating. And here, I'm going to go and read your books now. So we actually on that point, tell us where people can find you. Your books and all that sort of good things.

Craig: Probably just, so where to look at lots of stuff would just be craigharper.net. Where to—probably I mean, probably the easiest access just to follow my day to day stuff is Instagram, which is @whiteboardlessons.

Lisa: @whiteboardlessons. Yep.

Craig: @whiteboardlessons because I do a lot of, I write on the whiteboard.

Lisa: I shared one of them today. It was good.

Craig: I saw that, thank you. I incessantly write on whiteboards. And then I take pictures of what I write and post it which people seem to resonate with. So just Instagram, @whiteboardlessons, social media, sorry...

Lisa: And The You Podcast, The You Project.

Craig: And of course, The You Project fucking project.

Lisa: Project

Craig: Project. Right, the project or the project, is my podcast. So yeah, it's been great. Lisa, and I love what you do. And I think you ace in—I didn't know of you a couple of months ago, and I'm very impressed. And it's a privilege to come on your show. And it's great to meet you. And I'm looking forward to hanging out with you, one day.

Lisa: Absolutely. We’ll absolutely do that. You can teach me to do some better chin-ups because I'm not very good at them.

Craig: Well, we're definitely not going for a run. I'll give you that too.

Lisa: Oh, man. I’m not too long. I don't do so long anymore. So you'll be actually fine with me running.

Craig: All right.

Lisa: All right, matey, thank you so much for your time, and we look forward to having you on again at some stage.

Craig: Perfect. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks, everyone. Take care.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We all want good health and a long life. That's why we subscribe to health fads that offer promising benefits to our bodies. But, for this same reason, we tend to neglect foundational health principles. While these are easily accessible to us, there is still so much we can learn and get from them. By going back to the basics, we can take better care of our health, prevent diseases and boost longevity.

Dr Elizabeth Yurth joins us in this episode to talk about the importance of cellular health in longevity. She gives an overview of the benefits of foundational health principles in the disease process. Dr Yurth delves deeper into fasting, autophagy and the specifics of spermidine.

If you want to know more about slowing the ageing process and boosting longevity, this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are Three Reasons Why You Should Listen to the Full Episode: 1. Find out the importance of hormone metabolisation and cell fixing in preventing and addressing diseases. 2. Learn the importance of going back and forth between different health routines. 3. Discover the benefits of spermidine in improving health.

Resources * Pushing the Limits Episode 181: Genetic Predisposition and Understanding Your Hormones * Join the Human Optimization Academy for FREE at Boulder Longevity Institute! * Bulletproof Radio * Abundance 360 * Low Protein Intake is Associated with a Major Reduction in IGF-1, Cancer, and Overall Mortality in the 65 and Younger but Not Older Population * PubMed * Seed Scientific Research and Performance * Boulder Longevity Institute’s Facebook page * If you are interested in getting Spermidine as mentioned in this podcast, Lisa now has it available In New Zealand.
Grab your cell renewal Spermidine here:
https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations/products/the-worlds-first-awarding-winning-spermidine-supplement

Episode Highlights [01:54] Dr Yurth’s Practise and Boulder Longevity Institute * Dr Yurth has been practising orthopaedic medicine for 30 years. Fifteen years into her career, she became frustrated with the band-aid solution process in orthopaedics. * She started looking at the way to stop this downhill decline. She did a fellowship in functional and regenerative medicine and incorporated it into her practice. * However, short consultation sessions for such proved to be inefficient, so they opened the Boulder Longevity Institute. * They started the Human Optimization Academy to educate people about orthopaedic regenerative care. * Every single disease comes down to the mitochondrial level that requires systemic treatment.

[07:16] Foundational Health Principles * There are a lot of cool fads on taking care of your health. However, we have to start with the basic principles. * Metabolising the hormones is very important. A urine metabolite test determines the pathways where hormones are going. * Simple lab studies, including CBC and CMP, can give an estimation of longevity comparable with telomere length testing and DNA methylation. * Looking at albumin can predict longevity. Listen to the full episode to have an in-depth look at how albumin works! * You have to train people to go back to understanding these foundational principles.

[21:33] An Overview on Cellular Health * Every organ system comes back to cellular dysfunction. When you have damaged mitochondria, the cells are in an altered state of energy. * Senescent cells are cells that sit in the body without doing anything. Zombie cells become toxic to the cells around them. * To heal any disease, we have to clean out the bad cells. They use fasting in the disease process because it causes autophagy. * The biggest mistake people make is to try to have many antioxidants and NAD in the body. * To clear out the bad stuff, Dr Yurth and her team use rapamycin and spermidine. Tune in to the full show to know more about these cell-restoring methods!

[27:45] Fasting and Autophagy Mimetics * There’s a lot of questions about fasting that even experts have no answer to. * Autophagy is self-eating. You can have autophagy without being in ketosis. * One of the benefits of fasting is oxidative stress. Taking resveratrol reduces this benefit because it has a potent antioxidant. * You don’t want to be doing any protocol and patterns continuously. You have to go back and forth between different things. * A balance between mTOR and NPK keeps things in a homeostatic state.

[35:08] Muscle Building and Longevity * Muscle building is not the key to good health and longevity. * The genes that stayed in our body’s genetic evolution are those that will help us survive famines. * While research has shown that low IGF people live long, they don’t have good energy. * It's about repeatedly bringing IGF levels down and building it up. The cells need a push and pull for them to become healthier.

[38:36] All About Spermidine * Spermidine is present in every single living organism. It is prominent in our guts and in some food, with the richest source being wheat germ extract. * The major research of spermidine is its benefit in cardiovascular diseases. Myeloperoxidase is an inflammatory cardiovascular marker, of which they have seen high levels in post-COVID patients. * Research has also found that spermidine can lower Lp(a). * Immune system support is another place where spermidine has been studied. Spermidine, along with the peptide thymosin alpha 1, can improve lymphocytes. * The early studies in spermidines are on hair growth. It affects the body's overall regeneration process.

[46:29] Using Spermidine * Starting from a low level, it takes a while for spermidine to make you feel better. * One of the things Dr Yurth did when she started spermidine was to monitor her heart rate variability (HRV) and her Oura ring. * HRV is predictive of almost every disease state. * Getting a higher dose of spermidine comes at a great cost. But it's putting your health at a priority.

[50:35] Why You Should Trust the Research * Fixing the cells at the very base level takes time. * Dr Yurth is part of the Seed Scientific Research and Performance along with 25 mastermind doctors. Through this, they weed out what works and what doesn’t. * If you want to learn more about how Dr Yurth applies her practise, listen to the full episode! * There are a lot of inexpensive things you can do that are effective. If it doesn’t respond, that’s the time to pull up the bigger stakes. * The Boulder Longevity Institute bridges the gap between research to save lives.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘It is not that you run too much; you wear your knees. It's that there is a disease process going on in your body that is now making your joints wear out, and so you have to treat it systemically, or you're not going to make any progress’.

‘The cool stuff is cool, and there's a place for it in all of us. But you still got to start at the basic stuff’.

‘There's so much information in these really simple lab studies that you've gotten from your primary care doctor’.

‘I think even the functional medicine space sort of went beyond the step of looking at some very basic things that are inherent to life’.

‘You're never going to train doctors; you've got to train people’.

‘There's not really anybody who has one disease that does not have something else wrong; it's just impacted lots of times in different ways’.

‘We want to go back and forth between different things. And we want to make sure we're cycling. Any of you are staying on the same patterns all the time, that's not serving you’.

About Dr Elizabeth Dr Elizabeth Yurth is the co-founder of the Medical Director of the Boulder Longevity Institute.

She is a faculty member and a mastermind physician fellow in Seeds Scientific Research and Performance (SSRP). She specialises in Sports, Spine, and Regenerative Medicine and has double board-certification in Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation and Anti-Aging/Regenerative Medicine.

She has a dual-Fellowship in Anti-Aging, Regenerative and Functional Medicine (FAARFM) and Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine (FAARM). Dr Yurth is also an active athlete and has worked with numerous sports teams at collegiate and professional levels. She does consultations with high-level athletes to optimise performance and aid recovery.

If you wish to connect with Dr Yurth, you may visit her Instagram.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

You’re listening to Pushing The Limits with Lisa Tamati. Fantastic to have you guys back with me again. I hope you're ready and buckled down for another great interview. I really do get some amazing people and this lady is no exception. So today I have Dr. Elizabeth Yurth, who I originally heard on the Bulletproof Radio Podcast with Dave Asprey, who I love and follow. And she is a longevity expert. But Dr. Yurth is also a medical director of the Boulder Longevity Institute, which she founded in 2006. And she's double board certified in physical medicine and rehabilitation and anti-ageing and regenerative medicine. So she's a specialist in sports, spine and regenerative medicine.

She's an orthopaedic surgeon, and she's also heavily into the whole regenerative stuff. So from stem cells to different supplements to working with the latest and technologies that are available to help us slow down the ageing process and to help people regain function. So it was a really super exciting episode and I'm going to have Dr. Elizabeth on a couple of times. She's also a faculty member of the 25 mastermind physicians fellows at the Seeds Scientific Research & Performance group, which allows you to stay abreast and teach others in the emerging cellular medicine field. She's also been an athlete herself and works with numerous sports teams and both of the collegiate and professional levels. She's a wonderful person and I'm really excited to share this interview with her.

Before we head over to talk to Dr. Yurth, I just want to let you know about my new anti-ageing supplement. Now this has been designed and developed by Dr. Elena Seranova, who is a molecular biologist who is also coming on the podcast very shortly. And this is an NMN. It has nicotinamide mononucleotide. I recently read the book Lifespan by Dr. David Sinclair, who's a Harvard Medical School researcher in longevity and anti-ageing. And he's been in this field for the last 30 years. And his book was an absolute mind blowing, real look into the future of what we're going to be able to do to stop ourselves ageing to slow the ageing process down. And very importantly, increase, not only our lifespan, but our health span so that we know we stay healthy for as long as possible and don't have this horrific decline into old age that most of us expect to have.

So Dr. Sinclair in this book talks about what he takes and one of these things is an NAD precursor called nicotinamide mononucleotide. I searched all over the place for this. I couldn't get it in New Zealand when I was searching for it. And so I went and found Dr. Elena Seranova, who has developed this product and I'm now importing that into New Zealand. So if you want to find out all the science behind it, please head on head over to nmnbio.nz. That's N-M-N bio dot N - Z and all the information is on there. And you can always reach out to me lisa@lisatamati.com, if you've got questions around that.

We've also updated our running coaching system. So the way that we are offering our online run training system is now on a complete new look. We are doing fully personalised, customised training plans for runners of all levels and abilities. So we will program you for your next goal doing a video analysis of the way you're running, improve your running form through drills and exercises. Build your plan out for you. You get a one-on-one consult time with me as well. And just really help you optimise your running performance and achieve those big goals that you've got. So head on over to runninghotcoaching.com to check that out. Right now over to the show with Dr Elizabeth Yurth in Boulder, Colorado.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Today, I have Dr. Elizabeth Yurth with me from Colorado—Boulder, Colorado, and she is a longevity and anti-ageing expert. She's an orthopaedic surgeon. She's a real overachiever. And I'm just super excited to have her on because I have been diving into Dr. Yurth’s world for the last couple of weeks since I heard about her on the Bulletproof radio show. So Dr. Yurth has kindly given up an hour of her time to come and share her great knowledge. I know we're only going to skim the surface, Dr. Yurth, but it would be fantastic if we can gain some amazing insights on how the heck do we slow down this ageing process. So, Dr. Yurth, welcome to the show.

Dr. Elizabeth Yurth: Thank you so much, Lisa. I've been actually stalking you ever since you asked me to do this. And I've been fascinated with all the things you've been doing and teaching and I love it. I love that there's people like you out there who are now getting the masses involved in this and interested in this because doctors aren't doing it and so it has to be that educate the public. And people like you are paramount to that, so thank you.

Lisa: Thank you very much. Yes, I think, yes, this is the beauty of podcasts and such things and will in the internet whenever we can go direct to the best minds on the planet, get the information direct to the consumer, cutting out all the middle people, so to speak, and really get this information out there. Because what I've found in my research in the last few years is that there is so much amazing, great science out there that has never seen the light of day and certainly not in local clinical practice being utilized.

So Dr. Yurth, can you tell us a little bit about the Boulder Longevity centre before we get underway and what your work there is all about and your background?

Dr. Elizabeth: Sure, I'd love to. So basically, I've been in the orthopaedic medicine world for 30 years. And about 15 years ago, I actually became very frustrated because I saw people coming in and they would get injured or just have arthritis, chronic pain and we would sort of patch them a little bit and nothing ever really got better, and then something else will get hurt. And it really was just this downhill process from square one. I mean, I tore my first anterior cruciate ligament in my knee at the age of 18 and subsequently, had torn two or three more times between the two knees, had four more surgeries and then it was just a downhill decline.

And so, we started looking at is there a way to stop this, because you don't learn it in medical school, and you don't learn in orthopaedic medicine. And when I started looking into—and this was a very early time in the whole functional medicine space, it was really early, there wasn't a lot. And so I went back to American Academy of Anti-ageing Medicine, which is really the only thing available at that time, and did a fellowship in functional medicine and regenerative medicine and tried to incorporate that into my orthopaedic practice as much as I could. But it's difficult in 10 to 15 minute appointments to do that. So we realized that you can't really do good medicine in that model, and so we opened Boulder Longevity Institute about 15 years ago now.

And I really sidelined did both practices, because what I found is that people are still looking for that insurance-based practice, and I try as much as I could to educate them there. And then some of them would transition over to here and over time for 15 years, Boulder Longevity Institute has really grown and developed, and subsequently is now my full-time practice. But we do a lot of orthopaedic regenerative care here, the targeting, taking care of people and getting them healthier in that realm.

But much like you, our focus is very much now on education and we have a whole, what we call, Human Optimization Academy. We're trying to bring the just like you said, the research to the people. Peter Diamandis, who runs Abundance360—is very well known, you probably know him — he has a great quote where he says, ‘Researchers don't do medicine. And doctors don't do the research and learn the research and use on their patients’. And so, there's a lag of about 15 to 20 years since when something is available to us that will make us better and ever getting to us.

Lisa: Exactly. I had the exact same conversation with another doctor, Dr. Berry Fowler and we were talking about intravenous vitamin C and I said, ‘Why is it taking so long and critical care to get this in?’ And he said ‘because it's like turning a supertanker’. He says, ‘It's just so slow’. And so people are not getting the benefit of the latest research. And for an orthopaedic surgeon to go down this anti-ageing functional medicine route is a very rare thing, or at least in my country, it would be a very rare thing.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, orthopaedics does not cross over this line at all. And ultimately, it's one of the reasons I had to leave my other practices because my partners were very much like, ‘Stop talking about medicine. That's not what we do here’. And you have to—even arthritis is a disease. It is not that you ran too much and wore out your knees. There is a disease process going on in your body that is now making your joints wear out. And so you have to systemically treat it or you're not going to make any progress.

Lisa: Oh man, people so need to hear that because it is an inflammatory process that's coming like out of the immune system. And I've heard you say a couple of times on some of your lectures, I listened to one on mitochondria. And mitochondria is sort of the basis of where a lot of other things are coming from, isn't it, and diseases are probably...

Dr. Elizabeth: Everything. Honestly, I think what we're going to find is that every single diseases—every single disease is going to come down to mitochondrial level. In fact, I was just reading a new research article on autism and mitochondrial dysfunction, that they're actually linking this mitochondrial dysregulation in even autism. I don't think that we're going to find any disease that is not linked first to mitochondrial dysfunction, which is fascinating because mitochondria are fascinating. So it's really my passion is, is how do we repair mitochondria. But that you start looking at—you can pretty much do that. You guys go out there and Google mitochondria and any disease you can think of and you will find research to support it.

So, in arthritis it is exactly the same, right, Lisa? You're right. It's damage to now the mitochondria and the chondrocytes. And that damage—you get these damage from chondrocytes, which then are actually spewing these reactive species that are damaging the next cell and the next cell. And simply sticking steroids in that joint is not going to help it.

Lisa: Wow. So we want to talk a little bit today, like we talked about our foundational health—a few foundational health principles so that we can then get on to some of the cooler, more sexier stuff that I want to talk about, like things like spermidine and peptides and NAD precursors, perhaps, and all of these sort of really cool things.

But what are you seeing in your practice—like you're seeing a lot of people who are becoming aware of their health, they're looking at everybody knows the basics about nutrition now, I think. Like, fried foods are not good for us, sugar is not good for us—the basics. But what are you seeing as missing in that foundational side of things?

Dr. Elizabeth: So I think this is the biggest thing I've seen over the past—probably a year. And as I've done more podcasts, and I've listened to more podcasts, and now you have all the bio hacker groups and the peptide group, so everybody is doing all this cool thing. So now, like, ‘Oh, I got to go do my hyperbaric and I have to go take my growth hormone, peptides’. And they come in to me, and I was just telling you about a patient I saw who literally had a worksheet, spreadsheet of all the things he was doing. And I said, ‘Well, are you taking testosterone’? And he was 56 years old, I said, ‘Are you taking testosterone’? ‘No’. And I said, ‘Have you ever looked at your nutrient pound’? ‘Nope’.

So, what I really want to encourage your listeners is the cool stuff is cool, and there's a place for it in all of us, but you still got to start at the basic stuff. So, when we look at people we have to go through and we have to fix—so we look at all the hormones and you just did a great podcast looking at hormone metabolism, right? Because people are so scared of hormones and they’re terrified that these hormones are going to cause cancer. And we know that's not true. It's how you metabolize the hormones that's important, which has genetic and environmental. You just gave an incredible podcast with your guests the other day on that.

Lisa: With Dr. Mansoor; he's wonderful.

Dr. Elizabeth: Right. And your epigenetic background, that the key is how these hormones are processed. So when we look at hormones, we actually do a urine metabolite test. So we know exactly where those hormones are going, and are they going down bad pathways or good pathways?

So you've got to repair all that, first, fix all the pathways, which you do, and you know your CYP genes and all that kind of stuff. How do you alter it? There's nutrients that you can use to do that. There's tons of things, exercise. So, fix all the hormones first. Men and women all need hormones. I think testosterone’s neglected in women all the time, right? They're on estrogen, progesterone, and I'm like, ‘You’re not on testosterone’? Like, ‘No’. And so even within the realm of our type of medicine, we are neglected in that realm. Right?

Testosterone is huge for women. If you want muscle, you need testosterone.

Lisa: I basically got good muscles.

Dr. Elizabeth: Right, that’s right. So, you've got your testosterone on board, and it has to be not alternating into estrogen—all that has to be involved. So you've got to fix that. And then, there's so much information in these really simple lab studies that you've gotten from your primary care doctor. So, a complete blood count, a CBC, a CMP. Everybody has them, and everybody's doctor looks at and goes, ‘Yep, looks good. There's no reds in there, everything's perfect’. You can actually take that—and Dr. Levine, anti-ageing expert, did a whole algorithm that just taking some of these blood work give you very comparable estimation of longevity as doing telomere length or doing methylation.

So, we have all these expensive tests to look at DNA methylation and telomere to look at age, and you could come up very close to the same number, simply by feeding some of these parameters, like your albumin level and your metabolic calculator that would...

Lisa: Wow! Is that available publicly, that calculator?

Dr. Elizabeth: I'm not sure how publicly available it is. We actually have access, and we utilize that in our patients to follow it. But it's great, because these other tests are expensive. And if I want to put you on a protocol and then see if I'm making headway, how do I follow that? So, I don't think people know that, for instance, what is one of the most valuable numbers on your CBC? It’s actually the size of your cells, the mean cell volume, and the rest of distribution?

Lisa: Yes, I'm just studying cell distribution.

Dr. Elizabeth: Isn’t that fascinating?

Lisa: We are completely unaware.

Dr. Elizabeth: And have any of your listeners have had the doctor ever mentioned what their MCV is? Or their RDW is? And those are very, very important. So is albumin. So albumin alone, which is not just dietary. There's a great study that you could predict who is going to get out of the hospital alive based on their albumin levels. And so simply looking at things like that. So if your albumin levels are low, maybe it's because you're not eating enough protein, but that doesn't—it tends to be something else wrong.

Lisa: Liver not doing something.

Dr. Elizabeth: Definitely. And sometimes that's the need for more beta carotene. Sometimes it's need for more copper. Copper has to help carry the albumin and copper deficiencies are super low. Nobody measures copper. So, you can look at a low albumin and try putting somebody on a little copper, it’s quite GHK copper as a peptide, I might get to the fancy stuff. Using copper as a peptide is an amazing peptide. It's very longevity promoting because copper is super vital to our health. And so sometimes just putting people on two milligrams of copper can markedly improve their health.

Lisa: But isn’t there copper’s also a toxicity problem? Isn't that quite a lot of people have high copper levels?

Dr. Elizabeth: Less than you think. So it's gotten a lot of market to that, right? It has to be that zinc copper balance has to be imbalanced. So that's one of the things. But actually, copper toxicity is pretty easy to tell. When people become copper—toxic on copper, you'll see the lunula, the fingernails start turning, a little discoloured, a little bluish in colour. So it is a little harder to get toxic in copper than people think. I use it a lot for wound healing in my patients. So, it really helps with wound healing. It's why it's in all skin, expensive skin creams, copper peptides are because it's so good for collagen function, it’s so good for wounds. So I think we may scare people a little bit from copper. But it actually has some value.

And a lot of times, it's not so much that you have too much coppers, you don't have enough zinc and that balance is not there. It has to be balanced between zinc and copper. So those are simple things that you can actually look at and measure. And you can—I don't have to do it on everybody.

So I see somebody who has a low albumin, I might say, ‘Hmm, we better look at your zinc and copper level’. So we take the CBC and CMP. And how about simply creatinine? If your creatinine is above point eight, that is not good for longevity. So, why is that?

Well, maybe you're eating way too much protein, right? We will erase any high protein diets, super high protein, the kidneys can only process so much protein and your kidneys depend on your genetics, maybe less. So that's all things I think you have to go back when you talk about foundational health.

I spend literally 30 minutes going through a CBC and a CMP with people. They’re so valuable, and those are $12 tests. Not these big, fancy, expensive tests, they don't cost $500 or $600. And by the end of that test, I can give them, this is what your biological age, your pheno age, this is where we really need to target and start with them some very basic, inexpensive things.

Lisa: Crikey dex, that's amazing. I didn't know we can get to that. I mean, I've only been studying blood chemistry for a couple of months and like it's a big topic isn't it?

Dr. Elizabeth: It has some really cool value to it that you can actually look at. Some ranges that—we have all gone from the normal range, right? All your listeners now know this the normal range, there's an optimal stage. Within that optimal range, right, there's one number above that you'll see you start to see a change in ageing. The curve on your projected longevity, you look at albumin levels, and you look at the curve on your projected longevity. If your albumin levels are less than 4.6, your projected longevity is five to 10 years less than somebody who's above 4.6.

Lisa: Crikey. No one's ever told me any of these things and I’ve been studying blood chemistry and from functional doctors, like that's all news to me.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, I think that that's the problem. I think even the functional medicine space sort of went beyond the step of looking at some very, very basic things that are inherent to life. And now start focusing, ‘Oh, let's look at hormones, right? Let's look at the gut microbiome’. All super important, but all going to be messed up, if the other stuffs messed up, right?

Lisa: You’re basically not in the right place.

Dr. Elizabeth: And so I—that's where I get a little frustrated. So now we're targeting back to that whole cellular health, it all comes back down to the cell, fix the cell. As the cell gets fixed, the mitochondria get fixed, everything else falls. So once you've refined that now, we can look at gut microbiomes, if the person is not doing well. We can look at things like micronutrient profiles, and I love micronutrient profiles because I don't know if how much vitamin D you need or how much vitamin B12 you need. Micronutrient profiles, particularly one that gives me intracellular and serum levels, as you know genetics plays a huge role in your micronutrients.

Lisa: Yes, vitamin D, for example. I mean, I know I have bad vitamin D genetics, so I need to supplement with vitamin D. Right?

Dr. Elizabeth: And B12, you've got the SUV people of B12. I’m one of those who need a lot of B12. It's all very genetically based. So, you can predict it from genetics. But then are you accomplishing your goal? I think you need some…

Lisa: Measurements. And this is where the combination of what I'm—like the combination of doing your genes and finding out your innate pathways and what they do, and then seeing actually where you are, getting that snapshot of ‘Okay, we are actually in their hormones and stuff’. And it's quite complicated.

And this is the problem is that you go to your local doctor, at least here where I live, and none of this is offered. And none of this is—and so you left as a lay person trying to work this stuff out yourself. And that's quite frustrating and quite difficult.

Dr. Elizabeth: It's hard. And it gets caught up again, in the glitz and glamour. I'm going to be attracted to my podcast that's talking all about the coolest, newest thing, it's just our nature is to want the coolest, newest thing. And we just talked about that. We want that cool new thing, because that is on the forefront. And we use those cool new things to help fix the basics. But you still got to know where you are in that standing, and that's really now become, I think, one of my frustrations as I'm seeing more and more people walk in my door, who are doing everything they’re thinking of.

And so we are trying to teach people this. We're trying to teach people how do you interpret your own blood work? How do you look at every one of those parameters and say, ‘What should my albumin be? Okay, it's too high, it's too low. What can I do to fix that’? Whereas, if my MCV is, mean cell volume. If your mean cell volume, and you look at your own. As we age, I look at my 19 year old son, he has a mean cell volume of 83. If I look at your average person who's in their 50s, and 60s, who's our age, it's going to be 97, 98. So the higher that number goes, the more your stem cells are wearing out, the more your bone marrow is wearing out, the more that whatever you're doing isn't working.

So we can use those things, like you can use your infrared, you can do all those great things. Me, I infrared, I cryo, I do all that. But I will tell you some very basic stuff that sometimes has been the things that made changes in those numbers. I want people to know, that's them that, honestly, is why we decided you're never going to train doctors, you've got to train people. But we've also got to get people back to understanding that you've got to sort of learn these things and kind of a fashion of can learn this, learn this, learn this. When I understand everything about how hyperbaric oxygen improves my cell function, have I really learned how to just look at the cell at that molecular level from looking at basic labs? And that's what we're trying to teach people. Start there, and then we give them tools.

Lisa: Fantastic. So people can join Dr Yurth, and get us some of this education. And I've started delving into it and I can't wait to see what else comes along because I mean, this sort of stuff, I'm like already going, ‘Oh my god, I didn't know that’. So I've learned something today already as well. And I'm very definitely guilty of going after the shiny object and love it.

Dr. Elizabeth: It’s human nature. That’s human nature.

Lisa: Yes. And so people can go to the Boulder Longevity website and I'll put the links in the show notes and there is a Human Optimization Academy, join up for that and it's actually free at the moment, isn't it, Dr. Yurth?

Dr. Elizabeth: Right. Right now, it's free. And we'll start putting together—so right before COVID hit, we actually had an in-person course. We're actually going to teach how to look at your own CBC and CMP. And COVID hit, and it all sort of fell apart. But we'll be putting that back into sort of a virtual course with people so you can actually get your bloods run. We will walk you through. So, here's how to interpret every one of those little numbers you see on there because I will tell you, every one of those little numbers is important. Everybody just looks at it as a piece of paper, and there's no red marks highs or lows, they sort of discard it. And we'll show you how to look at that and give huge value.

And just from those simple things, you can now say, ‘Maybe I better get a micronutrient panel’, or at least test a copper or zinc or a B12, or D based on some of those numbers that you see being off. And then take the tool, now fix the basics. ‘That's not working? Okay, now, maybe I need to add this, this, this’.

Lisa: And then now we can get fancy. Well sign me up for that course because I need it. And I'm already up on some of it, but I wasn't that familiar with some of the things you've just said. So like, that's just like, well.

Okay, so we're looking at foundational stuff. Now let's go and look at cellular health, per se, because it all comes down to the cell. The more I look into things, the more everything seems to be about mitochondria in the cell, and what they're doing. and when we're made up of what? 10 trillion cells or something ridiculous. So cellular health, can you give us a bit of a view—it's a big topic, isn't it? But where should we start?

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, well, I'm going to start with first kind of explaining what that means. So, functional medicines, we went from a disease-focused medicine, right? And then we all got very savvy—well, not the doctors—but the rest of the world who got very savvy said, ‘Oh, this isn't working. It's making somebody money, but it's not working to make anybody happy’. So we went to a functional medicine part. Let's look at organ systems and let's start. So then we went to the organ system, let's look at the adrenal glands and let's look at the liver in this and let's now fix the organ system that's dysfunctional. we got to fix the thyroid, we got to fix the endocrine organs and we have to do all that.

And then now, and this is really super recent, we're realizing that every organ system comes back to a cellular dysfunction. And there's not really anybody who has one disease that is not have something else wrong. It's just impacted lots of times in different ways. So if I have osteoarthritis. So if you have osteoarthritis, your risk of dementia is about fivefold higher. So why is that? Right? Osteoarthritis... because I ran 800 miles a day. But that's not the case, I have patients who run 800 miles and they're fine.

Lisa: Oh, I'm fine. Like, my joints are fine, and I haven't got any osteo.

Dr. Elizabeth: And then you have people who are like, ‘Oh, yes, I just wore myself out because I ran too much’. No, not the case. So, there's something wrong. So now we have to go back and look at what is wrong in the cell. So if you think about what power, what is the cell all about? It is the mitochondria. Mitochondria, what gives the cell energy, right? And so as we start getting damaged to our mitochondria with time and life and environment and genetics, and we start getting damage at the mitochondrial level. So, now have these damaged mitochondria. And now we start getting these cells that are in this altered state of energy. And that's when you start getting that senescent cell—cells that are basically sitting there…

Dr. Elizabeth: They’re zombie cells.

Lisa: And there's zombie cells, right? And they're producing these reactive oxygen species. And that's why they're called zombie cells, it's because the things that are being spewed out, are now toxic to the cells around them and then toxic to those cells. And so, it truly is like a zombie takeover.

So that's where we look at when we're going back to a cell level. First thing we have to do to try and heal any disease is clean out the bad cells. Clean up the zombie cells. That’s why fasting has been utilized for years in every disease process because we know that fasting causes autophagy, causes bad cells to go away, and now we can rebuild. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that if I start throwing a lot of rebuilding things into my network, tons of NAD and I'm trying to always be in this state where I've got a lot of antioxidants going. I'm throwing a lot of NAD and well then, I'm actually contributing to that cell senescent state. I've got to get rid of that first.

Clear out the bad stuff and do that periodically. And we use things like rapamycin, you can use it for fasting. And most recently what my go-to has been this spermidine for that talk. And I fell in love with spermidine a few years ago, actually and couldn't get it here in the US. That basically—it came onto my radar because there it worked at a very sort of primal level. Every single organism has spermidine. Anything that every organism has, is vital to life. And so we know that—and then all these studies that show that well, if you have higher level spermidine, you live longer, so.

And it was only available in—I don't know if you guys could get it—but it was available in Europe.

Lisa: I’ve just got my first order on its way. But I had to get it via Colorado, and I've actually being in contact with the guys in Austria. So, working on that one, I'm getting it down here.

Dr. Elizabeth: We couldn't get it. And like six months or so ago, we finally could get it here in the US. And it works as an autophagy inducing agent. It basically tells the cells to get rid of the bad stuff, it helps to restore the good parts of the cell. And really, at a baseline level is probably the one supplement that I know of, and probably the only one I know of, that is going to be actually balancing cell health continuously.

Lisa: So it's homeostasis as opposed to...

Dr. Elizabeth: The homeostatic state. Right.

Lisa: So like, just to backtrack a little bit there because we covered a heck of a lot of ground in a very short time there. So, fasting, I mean, we've heard, like fasting and intermittent fasting and longer fasts are very, very good for us and all that. While a lot of us don't want to do it because it's not very nice... I do intermittent fasting, but I must admit, I don't enjoy it. And I certainly—when it comes to doing longer fasts, I struggle. So I'm always like, fasting mimetics, how can I get some fasting mimetics going? Because like you say, if I'm going to put in the antioxidants, the precursors, which I do as well, which are very important piece of the puzzle, but just that is not enough. So, this is like we've looked at in the past, like resveratrol as being a possible fasting mimetic. And wouldn't it be great if spermidine turns out, and it looks like it is going to be another fasting mimetic that's actually even more powerful. So, I know you do a lot of fasting, you're very disciplined, unlike myself.

Dr. Elizabeth: No extra weight, I still have extra weight so fasting’s easier for me.

Lisa: But yes, it is a difficult thing to do. So intermittent fasting is probably for me is the easiest go-to because I can sort of coke for it.

Dr. Elizabeth: Time-restricted eating. Really, yes, more doing a 16, 8, kind of thing as opposed to the longer fast. And there's a lot of questions, we don't really know, do you need to long fast? We actually don't know the answer to that. There's a lot of people who say, ‘Oh, you've got to be hit the 48 to 72 hours to really get the full autophagy phase’. There's not a lot of data that actually really says that. You may still be able to get the same benefits from doing time-restricted eating. So we don't know the answer to all these questions.

Lisa: But so what we're targeting with fasting is autophagy. So, autophagy, just to define what autophagy is, is getting rid of the bad stuff, basically. The bad proteins that are damaged, the mitochondria, or mitophagy, in that case. And recycling the parts that we can reuse and getting rid of it. Does the body sort of lock at it when you're fasting, and you haven't got anything coming and going up, ‘I've got no fuel supply, I better start recycling the old stuff’.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, exactly. Yes, autophagy is self-eating. And so basically, the cell basically says, ‘Oh, I need to preserve. I'm going to take the good things from the cell, get rid of the bad stuff I don't need. It’s a waste of energy. Getting rid of cells that shouldn't be utilizing my energy’. So and then really by going into a ketotic state, and that's, not utilizing glucose has a huge benefit.

Lisa: So ketosis and autophagy, are they hand in hand? Are they part of the same thing? Can you have autophagy without being in ketosis, or are they very much married together?

Dr. Elizabeth: No, you can actually have autophagy without being in ketosis. And you can basically be in ketosis and not necessarily have autophagy. So that all kind of depends on the cell, the state the cells in.

One of the problems with resveratrol as a fasting mimetic, you mentioned taking resveratrol continuously, is there's also very potent antioxidant. Remember, one of the benefits of fasting is oxidative stress. So, I want oxidative stress while I'm fasting. If I'm taking resveratrol, for instance, while I'm fasting, I'm actually not getting as much of the oxidative stress. So, it's working a little different level. That's why I like spermidine a little bit better as it doesn't have that same effect to sort of negate the oxidative stress.

Lisa: And for how long for people to get their heads around? I know because I mean, I've been struggling with this one, like the antioxidants sort of paradox. Yes, sorry, you carry on.

Dr. Elizabeth: I think the key to remember is you really don't want to be doing any protocol continuously. I was just talking to a guy and he said, ‘What do you do to look like you do’? because I have more muscle. And I said, ‘I don't do anything continuously’. There's nothing—workout, nothing continuously. My food, my eating is never continuously, my supplements are never continuously.

And I think it's a problem as people get in these patterns where they are taking all these antioxidants continuously. I always am going through build-up, breakdown phases. So there's only a few supplements that I will continuously take. One is, I will take spermidine at a baseline level. But if I'm doing a sort of a fast autophagy phase, where I really want to do a big tie up off of everything, I want a very high dose spermidine, much higher dose than just until that time of day.

Lisa: Because spermidine works at a level lower if you like, at the base level. So, when we're talking about antioxidants, what the job is in the cell is to basically scavenge and donate electrons to where you got oxidative stress, and reactive oxygen species and to get rid of it there. But we're actually going a step back and actually stopping the reactive oxygen species, or oxidative stress from happening in the first place. And this is why spermidine at that base level, seems to be one that you can take continuously. And it even builds up to some degree, perhaps in your body or upregulates some of the bacteria in the microbiome. And whereas, antioxidants, we want to sort of cycle in and out. It's like exercise, isn't it? Like when I go to the gym, I'm not going to have my vitamin C right next to when I go to the gym, because that's going to mitigate that cascade of effects that vitamin C has. Yes.

So I'm doing things. I'm taking my vitamin C away from that. And so there's, none of this is good or bad, it's cycling. And I think the more I've looked into things, the body likes this push and pull. It likes a medic stress. It likes to be cold. It likes to be hot. It likes to be pleasant, but it likes to be fasted. It likes to have a good amount of food. It's this whole—because that's how we've evolved, isn't it?

Dr. Elizabeth: That's the way life for it was, yes.

Lisa: We didn't come from this neutral environment where the temperature is the same all the time. And we're sitting on comfy couches, and we're not exercising and we're not cold, or we're not hungry, and we're not hot, and we're not not anything, and we've got an abundance of everything. And therefore, if we look at our evolution, and how we've come about that sort of a push and pull seems to go right through nature.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, you're exactly right. Remember, there's that balance between mTOR and AMPK, right? We know that AMPK is breakdown. And we know that when we block mTOR, our lives are longer, but we also don't build as much muscle and we don't have as much energy. And what you do is go through phases, build up mTOR, build up AMPK, build up and do that balance, so that you keep things in a very homeostatic state. And you said exactly right, there's great benefits to being hot. You have all the, how great being cold is and doing our cold showers in our cryo and everything. But there's a study that came out recently, I think I quote it in some podcasts I was in recently, that showed that in hotter environments, bone density is much better. So why is it that?

Lisa: Yes, I heard that.

Dr. Elizabeth: There's some effects from the warmth on our body too. So you're exactly right. We want to go back and forth between different things and we want to make sure we're cycling. Any of you who are staying on the same patterns all the time, that's not serving you. Your body needs to have this back-and-forth balance. And you're right, that is—whenever you give the quote of well, ‘That's how cavemen lived’. You're like, ‘Well, but cavemen died in 18 whatever’.

So how our evolution occurred, right? It's still what, what got us to survive. And it really is how our world is designed, and it's how our cells are designed.

So I think that the use of thinking about your body as ‘Okay, I'm going to go through a fast, autophagy phase, and then I'm going to build up and I’m going to build my muscles’. You can build muscle while you're in a fasted state, but it's not nearly as easy as it is when you're eating a lot of food.

Lisa: Yes. And but we're wanting to keep everything in balance so that it doesn't get just mTOR because, if we're in a state of like, activated mTOR all the time, then we are growing, but we were possibly growing things like cancer cells and things like.

Dr. Elizabeth: And we know that mTOR activation all the time is closer to death.

Lisa: But isn’t it weird, like there's nothing simple about...

Dr. Elizabeth: It actually, honestly, it makes very little sense to me, right? The things—the mTOR, everything's muscle building. Super high IGF all the time and it is muscle building. You would think it would be kind of pro longevity, right, and healthy, and yet, it's not. And the only way I can really—in my mind, reason that out is that if the zombie apocalypse hits, you're better designed to be able to survive without any food and without any—nothing just huddled away in your little house, right? And so maybe the evolution of our body that's for longevity, the genes have kind of stayed there are the ones that really make us survive through famine, right? And yet, that's probably not where we all want to be. We don't want to be huddled in the back of our houses not moving.

And so yes, if you look at Valter Longo and his research on—really low IGF people live longer, they don't have cancer. Yes but they actually don't necessarily feel great. And they don't necessarily see low IGF people all the time, who are fatigued, who don't have good energy, who can't build muscle, who don't exercise. So I think that the thing here is build your IGF, bring it back down, build it up, bring it back down. So, I think that that's where we really need to look at things, as this kind of waxing and waning of everything we do.

In our cellular medicine fellowship program, it's one of the things we're really, really focused on is that's what the cell needs, is a push and pull to it, to really help it become a healthier entity. And I think if we start doing that, we're going to start seeing that that's really where we're going to see that big focus to health and longevity occurrence. It's not going to be ‘Everybody eat this diet’.

Lisa: No, no. And this is like, even as a coach of athletes and stuff. And I did this in my athletic career where I didn't know all this stuff. I ran long, because that's what I do, it was ultra-marathon running. And that's all I did. I didn't train at the gym. I didn't do—and I was not fit. And I was not healthy. I could run long because I've trained that specific thing, but I wasn't healthy. I was overweight. I was hormonally imbalanced. I ended up with hypothyroid. I couldn't have sat on the couch and ate chips all day and probably come out better than I did. Because I'd been doing one thing and one thing that was actually not suited to my genetics either, ideally. And so understanding all of this is not as simple as well, ‘I'll go and do the same old thing, same old and then we'll be good’.

I want to sort of flip now and go a bit of a deep dive into spermidine because I think spermidine is the one thing that, this is going right down to the base level of before. Because we want anti-ageing. I mean. We compared ages before this podcast and I mean, I won't share your age, but I was shocked. You look amazing. And I'm like, ‘I want a piece of that’. What is it that you're doing? So spermidine is a part of your—that is one of the things you do take on a pretty much a daily basis. Can you dive into the research? There’s 10 years behind the spermidine and it's only just becoming available. Guys in New Zealand, it's not here yet. I'm working on it. Give me time, I'm getting, I'm working on it.

Dr. Elizabeth: So, what we know is as we talked about spermidine is on every single living organism. So, we know it's critical to life, it's what's called a polyamine. It's what a three poly means is spermidine, spermine, and putrescine. And they all have some value. Putrescine is what's in rotting meat. You're probably not going to go eat rotting meat. But there's actually some value to putrescine in our bodies, too. Spermidine appears to have—spermidine is converted typically this into spermidine. Spermidine is innately in our gut. So, it's made by our gut bacteria but it's also in some foods. It's in some a lot of fermented foods, in wheat germ extracts. It's in some peas and mushrooms. It's in some algae.

Probably the richest source of it is a specific type of wheat germ extract. It's apparently very difficult to extract, it's only a certain type of wheat germ that has it's difficult to extract a pure form of it. And so, there is companies that make it from algae as well. But you have to take—actually before we could get spermidine from spermidine life which is wheat germ extract, we actually bought an algae extract one. You really had to take 40 of these little green pills. I mean your hands are green, your teeth are green all the time. 40 of them, I mean, I did that because I wanted it but once we got spermidine.

I get the question all the time about well, it's wheat germ extract. Interestingly, I've celiac patients on spermidine and even though it's not advised for celiac patients, it probably actually is perfectly safe because it's actually working on one of the pathways, that's what makes the gluten exactly unsafe those patients. So, it's probably even if you're—I'm very gluten sensitive, I don't do gluten. I have no problems in spermidine. So, it tends to be pretty well-tolerated in those people.

Lisa: Yes, but I've got a brother who’s recently examined and she said, ‘Yes, I can’.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, I have two celiac patients on who've done fine. And again, the bio says not to take it if you're celiac, but I think cautiously, there is some research that supports it actually may be useful in treating some of the celiac patients.

So basically, the study is now—there's so many studies on it. In terms of preventing almost every disease in the book, and that's where you and I come back to that whole, is mitochondria the answer to everything? Because we've seen spermidine—you can Google spermidine. I do this. I mean, Google ‘spermidine and Alzheimer’, Google ‘spermidine and cancer’, there's not a disease that we don't have a study on where you can find some connection to higher or lower levels of spermidine being better.

Some of the major research has been on cardiovascular and its benefits and cardiovascular disease. It's one of the things we've been using when we see high inflammatory cardiovascular markers in our patients. We measure what's called myeloperoxidase, which is an inflammatory cardiovascular marker. It's interesting, we've seen it very high in our lot of our post-COVID patients. So patients who have had COVID recovered, coming for labs, we're seeing very high levels of myeloperoxidase. So, we think that's probably from some of the vascular damage that COVID seems to create in some people with certain genetics. And that’s very hard to bring it back down, and spermidine has been one of the things that's been really helpful there for us.

So, it's also any of your patients who have a high Lp little a. Yes, so by Lipoprotein little a, you'll know is basically genetic.

Lisa: Yes. And there's not much you can do.

Dr. Elizabeth: Nothing much you can do about it. You use high-dose niacin, but it's hard to take, the liver toxic. Spermidine actually has some research to support it in lowering Lp little a and we've seen that in our practice, it's one of the things we lower Lp little a. So the other place that's been really studied is an immune system support. So we've seen improvements in lymphocytes. So, one of the other labs that you want—when you're looking at that CBC is looking at your neutrophil-lymphocyte ratio.

Lisa: Yes, I've just like I've got a problem with my brother at the moment, lymphocytes, neutrophils down. No, sorry, your neutrophils down, lymphocytes, high.

Dr. Elizabeth: That's a little uncommon, that might indicate some kind of viral illness going on. Typically, what happens as we age is, we start to see the lymphocyte number go down and the neutrophil number go up. So that ratio, which should be around 1.3:1, 1:1, 1.3:1, starts climbing. If you look at the typical person our age is, 3:1. And so, it's hard to get—how do you get back lymphocyte function? You don't have thymus glands anymore. And so the two things that we've been able to utilize to really restore lymphocyte function in our patients who have ageing immune systems is spermidine. And then the other one is a peptide, thymosin alpha-1, which is a thymic peptide.

What our thymus gland does is it takes those two lymphocytes, it tells them what to do and, and once—your best immune function is at puberty. After that, your thymus gland starts getting smaller. And by the time you're 60, you don't really have much thymus gland. And so your immune system starts going a little haywire, it doesn't know what to do. And so what we can do, because really crazy people are trying to transplant thymus glands, or eat sweetbreads, which doesn't work. They do it in France, maybe they taste good, but I don't think it replaces your thyroid function. But you can get thymic peptides. So, two of the things that the thymus gland really makes is thymosin alpha-1 and thymosin beta-4. And thymosin alpha-1 is a very immune modulating peptide, and it really helps to restore normal immune function. So, the combination of spermidine and thymosin alpha-1 and your people who have immune dysregulation, autoimmune diseases. You could start normalising the immune function. So instead of attacking self they start attacking viruses.

Lisa: Wow. And autoimmune is just like, a huge, huge problem. I mean, it's just epidemic levels now.

Dr. Elizabeth: It is epidemic.

Lisa: Sorry, so this would help with that. Oh, my God. Okay. So that's another reason to take spermidine and the peptides. I mean, peptides are harder to get hold of like…

Dr. Elizabeth: It’s still harder to get hold of. Your people who are in Europe, thymosin alpha-1 is actually a drug. It's called Zadaxin. We can't get it here as a drug. We've made us a peptide but it actually is a drug. They use it in their chemotherapy patients in Europe and Asia. And so oddly, it's available as approved drug. Probably pricey.

Lisa: Most of these drugs are for some unknown reason.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes. Spermidine—someone's early studies and where it actually sort of panned out, as people went after it initially was actually hair growth. And again, if you think about, the tissues, we're talking about, like cardiac here, those are all fast-growing tissues. And that's where spermidine sort of had its nice effect and sort of that whole regeneration process. And so even in guys with thinning hair, spermidine has huge benefits. Just taking on like a milligram a day dose will start the thickening of hair. I noticed when I first started, my nails grew really fast means, I mean, super fast. And so even in those basic things, like hair growth, nail growth, spermidine has some really marked effects.

Lisa: Fantastic. We’ve got to get it here.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, it is amazing. I mean, honestly, I feel a little—whenever I see my patients now and I see something wrong. I'm like, ‘Well, spermidine, oh’.

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And this is all to confirm because it's such a wide panacea, and it works at base level of the ageing and pathologies and things…

Dr. Elizabeth: It’s too good to be true.

Lisa: It's too good to be true, but actually now, it makes sense. And so, it’s fantastic if we find something that is a panacea for many, many things. And also, I've got my first shipment coming from the States, and I'm super excited.

Dr. Elizabeth: One of the hard things in what we do, right, is it takes you awhile to feel better, and just starting from a low level, right. Or if you're like us, and you're at a high level, then making this little extra. And so, what I tell people to monitor, because one things I noticed was, when I started spermidine was a pretty—I don't sleep enough, I study too much. But I use my Oura ring, and I monitor my HRV. And so, I know a lot of your listeners have the Oura ring and HRV is very fluctuating. And so it's one of those things, it's very easy to see a change.

So, if I do something like start taking spermidine, I can say no, and you can look at the trend on your Oura ring. And you can say, you can take—started spermidine here, and I had about a 15 point jump in my HRV, which I won't say what it is because it’s just from starting spermidine. So I know it's doing something at a very basic level because HRV is predictive of almost every disease state; so low HRV, you know you have a higher incidence of all Alzheimer, we know we have a higher incidence of cancer. So I know if I'm affecting my HRV, I'm positively affecting my health.

So something really simple that you can do to say, okay, I started this here, and then look back in two weeks, go to your little trends thing and see ‘Wow, look, my trend is going this direction’.

Lisa: Wow, I can't wait to see that because yes, I mean, I haven't been able to move the needle on my HRV really.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, me neither. And mine's not good.

Lisa: Yes, and mine isn't great either.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, the downside of sometimes what we do is we're reading all the time and staying all the time and trying to do too much and…

Lisa: Brain doesn’t turn off.

Dr. Elizabeth: And that's not so good.

Lisa: Adrenaline driven.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, so it is really, honestly one of the first things I did that really made a dramatic change.

Lisa: Wow, I will let you know how I go.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, let me know.

Lisa: When mine comes, whether my HRV is now turning up.

Dr. Elizabeth: I will say sometimes you need a higher dose which gets pricey.

Lisa: And this is the problem with everything, it's the same with the deep precursors and all the stuff that's fantastic, it does cost. But you know what? I don't have money to burn but I would rather go without a fancy car, go without fancy clothes, go without cosmetics, go without all that to have supplements that work or to have biohacking technologies that work because that's my priority, it’s my health. Because what good does it do me if I have a fancy car, but I'm sick?

Dr. Elizabeth: I know. And it is funny, I was giving this lecture and this woman came in, she asked how much this program we do cost? And she said, ‘Well maybe when I pay off my Lexus, I'll be able to do that’. And I'm like, ‘You’re really willing to spend a lot of money, a $1,000 on an iPhone and’...

Lisa: Priorities.

Dr. Elizabeth: …and car and we just still have to keep putting this focus on your priority, absolutely has to be this your health? And it’s so hard to convince people of that.

Lisa: And I'm constantly shocked at people who expect to like, they take a supplement and they don't see anything change for three days and then they're like, ‘It didn't work’. And I'm like, ‘You've got to be kidding’. Like you know your hair is growing, right? But do you see it growing every day? No.

But if you keep going—and with my listeners have heard me rabbit on about my story with my mum and bringing her back from a mess of aneurysm. The reason I have been successful with her is, is not any one particular thing. I mean, yes, hyperbaric, yes, all of these things were a big part of the puzzle. But it was the fact that I keep going when there was no signs of improvement. And I keep going every single day for five years, and I still go. And that is the key is that persistence. And that just keep doing it and prioritizing this, even when you see no results. And that's a really hard sell because people want to see, how long will it take for this to kick in?

Dr. Elizabeth: I think it's one of the hardest things about our jobs is—listen, it is very hard. But this is stuff that I'm looking at a future that's 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years down the road, I know these things—I know that they do, they've been proven. So to say they're not working for you is why in every study did they work and oddly, they don't work for you? It just doesn't make sense. It's just that if you go back to that cell level, by the time my knee is arthritic, number one, I've already lost 25% my cartilage, that process started 30 years ago. Now I've got to go and fix the cells at the very base level and then start repairing that cartilage.

Lisa: And it takes time.

Dr. Elizabeth: A long time. Right?

Lisa: And you didn't wake up one day with wrinkles and grey hair, it happened as a process over time. But I know that if I'm doing all these things that I'm doing, in my anti-ageing strategies that in 10 years’ time, I'm going to look better, feel better than if I don't. And that's the bottom line, or hopefully still be alive and avoid cancers. Those are my goals.

Dr. Elizabeth: You have to trust the research to some degree, right? If something's—there's not research—and that's hard cause you have to weed through a lot of research, right? And you have to say ‘That study is trash, that study’s trash’. Well, actually, ‘Here is a good study. This, this, this, here's a good thing’, and then put it all together. And I do this. There’s a fresh article, I go, ‘Here's an article that says this, this, this’. And it's not until the articles that outweigh the articles that say that the negatives by a certain amount that I even say, ‘Okay, this is a reasonable thing to do’.

Lisa: And that's where you like your spermidine, there is 10 years now because it's 10 years of full-on research and in many places and in many different diseases, where like, now that you're willing to say, ‘Yes, this stuff is actually looking really bloody good’.

And we are learning all the time, the science is changing. And I think this is what frustrates people too, is that you can go on—I do this, go into PubMed, and I do a deep dive and then you end up like, ‘Whoa’. One contradicts the other one and some of them are poorly designed. And so, that's why we need people like you who can interface that for us and go, ‘Hang on. I've distilled down into the most important things. This is what you need to know, guys’.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, I'm involved with this group, it's called Seed Scientific Research & Performance among Faculty with it, and it's a group of really—we're doing a fellowship program in cellular medicine, but it's 25 mastermind doctors are kind of the group that we've been getting together and we meet quarterly. And we talk about the stuff and now you've got these brains, you have 25 brains of people who are not only reading and utilizing this stuff, and you can put it together and you can start weeding out what works, how does it work? Who doesn't work in? And that's what it takes. It takes people like that getting together and actually now meshing their minds and using their experience and all their knowledge and all their reading.

And so this group has been phenomenal for me because it's I'm forefront leading thinkers. Because even when you go to the conferences, if you go to my orthopaedic conferences, I just learned the same old stuff. So this fore group, but actually talking amongst ourselves.

Lisa: Such top-level people, I wish I could be a fly on the wall of such.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, I mean, it's amazing stuff. And that's where we're going to make a change. And then you have to trust that we will bring that to you guys, but you got to stay tuned to people like you, Lisa, and the people who are trying to bring this to you because if you rely on medicine to do it, and your doctor to tell you it, you're going to be dead before it happens.

Lisa: That’s exactly what’s going to be.

Dr. Elizabeth: Or feel horrible. I mean, I just lost both my parents in the past and also lost mum. They were in their 90s but my dad really kind of gave up. His arthritis has gotten so bad. He was a guy who at 80, he was climbing mountains, but at 90, he couldn't hardly walk because his arthritis was so bad. And none of us want to be that way.

Lisa: No, and this is why we're desperate.

Dr. Elizabeth: You've got to do this stuff now. Ideally, in your 20s.

Lisa: Yes, exactly. Oh, we've missed that boat. I’m so sorry, you lost your parents. I mean, I just lost my dad six months ago. And again, he was super fed, 81-year-old, but he smoked and I couldn't ever stop him smoking and had an aortic aneurysm. And then I was stopped in the hospital from giving him intravenous vitamin C because once again, they are way behind the eight ball in our local hospital, in our ICU unit, they'd have no idea of what vitamin C like they think it's an orange you take. And my dad died as a consequence of that.

And I can't say for sure, but I believe in my heart that if I had been able to give him the things that I wanted to give him from day one, ozone and intravenous vitamin C, and all the other stuff that I had up my sleeve, my dad will be with us still. And that just breaks my heart. And because I know that there's these things available, and we can't get it for our people?

Dr. Elizabeth: I know, it's horrible. And then you've got the doctors—I mean, like with hormones. I put patients on hormones, their doctor takes them off the hormones.

Lisa: Oh, my God. And you've looked at the genetic pathways, you're not doing this out of—you’ve looked at it all. Like you know the risk factors and stuff.

And so Dr. Yurth, do you do teleconsults? Because I think after listening to this, people are going to want to make sure...

Dr. Elizabeth: We do. In fact, I would say most of our—I'm licensed in a lot of places and we have a lot of people actually out of the country, too, Europe and Canada and Australia. And so we do almost everything now is telehealth. We have people come in because we do some procedural stuff, too. But we do tons. It's so easy now, because we can hook them up with labs that are close to them, they can get the labs, we can go through them and do these very detailed concepts. We can give you what is your biologic age, and then we can start following. You just follow that, every three months, you see, ‘Am I changing my biologic age’? We can help you look at parameters, like using the Oura ring or other devices to help look and see if what we're doing... But it does really come down to having somebody help you walk through some of the basic stuff. And once you learn some of it, there's a lot you can do on your own.

Lisa: Yes, yes. And this is why this is so exciting. So I'm sure there's going to be lots of people wanting to do that. And I know all this stuff costs, it will cost people. It costs but again, what do you want more? And what is more important to you? I would give away my house and my everything to get my dad back.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, to be healthy and live healthy.

Lisa: And I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on my mum, and I...

Dr. Elizabeth: And there's nobody who is 60—once people get sick... I just lost one of my patients, I've been taking care for 15 years to cancer but we kept her alive for 15 years in stage four cancer. But she gave—I mean, she spent a lot of money on her cancer. The problem is, none of us think like that until we have the disease and we have to think like that ahead of that.

Lisa: And this is where like prevention, prevention, prevention is just worth a ton of cure. Because it's just you're pushing so much that uphill, really, once you've actually got the cancer or you got the whatever. So, if we can get a—even just a simple blood test and work out a few of the basics and then later on.

Dr. Elizabeth: And I will encourage that there is a lot of inexpensive things that you can do as well. I mean, intermittent fasting, obviously, that's really cheap. Saves you money. But the lab perspective, you can do—get a lot of information. Like I said, from a basic blood panel that cost 20 bucks, and you can get a lot of information. When you say, listen, the suspicion is this, let's try doing this and see if these parameters change. So there's a lot of actually things you can do that are on the more inexpensive realm. You have to understand them and know them.

And then when things don't respond, that's where you do have to kind of pull up the bigger stakes and pull out the bigger guns and do things. And for those people who do have—I do think you have to look at where are you spending your money. And we have to show our change, and you guys are in a different place in the US. But medicine here is so messed up by insurance companies, basically. Now everybody expects that their health insurance is covered, and when something's not covered, well, no one pays for spermidine, so I want my health insurance to pay for something. So we're really have messed the whole game up.

Lisa: Yes. And the whole insurance. Yesh, and let's not even go there because the whole political—the mess that has been created over time is just yes. And in the States, it's really bad. And here, it's not a heck of a lot better, slightly better, perhaps, but not a lot.

But yes, and you know what? I was listening to somebody, I can't remember who it was, and I said, Dr. Perlmutter, Dr. David Perlmutter, ‘Stop cursing the darkness and light a single candle’, or something to that effect. And I thought, that's the attitude. Instead of banging my head on the brick wall, because sometimes I do feel like that, just keep bringing this information out to the people.

Dr. Elizabeth: That's what we can do and the people, and you help more people listen. And so yes, and I do love that you've brought your stories to light and you're a real person. It's funny, most recently, when I did a five-day fast, I actually brought in two of the girls who I work with who had never fasted before. And actually, when I Instagram post, I Instagram with them in that post. And people we’re like, we love that because they were like real people.

Lisa: Yes. ‘They’re like me’, then I want to be doing this.

Dr. Elizabeth: Like, well, she's not human. She'd like to do all this cool stuff. But if you can bring this stuff to the real people and have them really start spreading that word, it makes a big difference.

Lisa: Oh, absolutely. So Dr. Yurth, we'll have to wrap up in a minute. And I can honestly, I really love to have you back on again, if I can impose on your time the next month or two, to do a part two, because I think we didn't go into—I would really love to dive a bit deeper into the whole mitochondria.

Dr. Elizabeth: Yes, let’s spend a whole talk just on mitochondria.

Lisa: That would be great.

Dr. Elizabeth: That's an amazing topic. Yes, there's just so much cancer perspective, I mean, probably going to come down to mitochondria are the basis for a lot of cancer, so.

Lisa: Yes, so the metabolic—this is something I've been studying lately is the whole bit metabolic nature of cancer, as opposed to the somatic—what's it called? I’ve forgotten the correct term, the somatic theory of cancer. Genetic mutation theory. So, I'd love to yes, maybe do an episode on that.

Meanwhile, Dr. Yurth, where can people join you and your Human Optimization Academy, get teleconsults, get help from you if they want to?

Dr. Elizabeth: So if you just go to boulderlongevity.com, that'll lead you—there's a click for the Academy, so you can join the Academy, please do because we really are trying to get this information to people. We bridge that gap between research and actually using it so we can save lives. And just on that realm, the insulin—by insulin took 20 years and time it was discovered, think of the lives that were lost, and we have a whole lot of things in our realm that are like that. So please learn about this stuff, so that you can spread the word.

So boulderlongevity.com, go to the Human Optimization Academy, follow me @dryurth on Instagram. So we try and keep people updated there as well a little bit, and on Facebook. So just go to Boulder Longevity. But the Boulder Longevity website will guide you along from a learning curve, sort of helps you—and we're working on kind of where do you fall into this pathway? Where should you start? Am I somebody who knows everything already? I'm going to start here versus the basics. So we're trying to go... Yes, we'll try and get it, so it's more easy—easily managed from all of your people who are watching. So they know, where do I fall into this curve?

Lisa: And that is a lot of work. I know. I do this sort of stuff, too. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. So thank you. Thank you for being so amazing.

Dr. Elizabeth: That’s why I charge Lisa.

Lisa: I think you're absolutely incredible. I think the passion that you bring to everything, I just love—absolutely love having guests on of your calibre that just—like I had Dr. Mansoor Mohammed last week, he’s another—must connect with him, he’s amazing. And people like yourself that just are at the cutting edge and passionate about it and actually try to disseminate the information so that nobody has to go through things that we've unfortunately both experienced with our families. So, thank you very much for your dedication to your job.

Dr. Elizabeth: You’re welcome.

Lisa: And I'm really looking forward to having you back on the show.

Dr. Elizabeth: I'd love to. Thanks, Lisa.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Athletes, especially long-distance runners, sustain a lot of injuries in their career. Their injuries mainly affect the lower extremities, like the calf or the foot. Wearing the appropriate gear and proper shoes, as well as using orthotics, can make a lot of difference.

Dr Colin Dombroski joins us in this episode to explain the benefit of orthotics to foot health. He also talks about common running injuries and how wearing the correct shoes can prevent these.

If you are a runner and want to know more about orthotics and the science behind shoes, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover the benefits of orthotics and modern imaging techniques in foot health. 2. Learn more about common running-specific injuries and ways to prevent them. 3. Know about the brain-foot connection and the knock-on effect of footwear.

Resources * The Foot Strength Plan by Colin Dombroski * The Plantar Fasciitis Plan by Colin Dombroski * Born to Run by Christopher McDougall * The Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast * SoleScience * Connect with Colin: Website | Email | Facebook | Skype: solescience

Episode Highlights [03:14] Colin’s Background * Colin designs and manufactures custom foot orthotics. * His researches revolve around general footwear, lower extremity therapy, and how these things interact to make people better. * Colin works on 3D printing orthotics, which shows how the foot works or moves in real-time. * He works with people to get them back on their feet and do what they want to do.

[04:36] How Foot Imaging Works * Colin uses a 3D motion analysis lab to study the workings of the lower extremities. * Alternatively, he also partners with the WOBL lab to do biplanar fluoroscopy. This procedure maps out somebody’s foot in 3D space. * It helps understand what is happening to the foot in real-time; it shows feet in a shoe under different circumstances. * Colin looks into the best way to make an orthotic for someone. * Imaging helps to see what is happening in the foot when a person is barefoot, in a shoe, or using orthotics.

[09:56] Are Orthotics Generally Good? * Orthotics are neither good nor bad; we cannot generalise. * It may be suitable for someone with arthritis but may not be beneficial to someone with no problems. * Orthotics are used as tools to help people with recovery and performance. * Colin’s job is to tell people whether they need orthotics or not. * When they have done their job, they’re removed.

[12:57] Rehabilitation vs Orthotics * In mild foot aches, over-the-counter devices can work well. * Orthotics are not a first-line treatment for some conditions. * Look at other things first before going down the route of orthotics. * Foot strengthening is very beneficial. * Do simple things that make feet work as feet.

[16:55] Does Wearing Shoes Result in Weaker Feet? * Not walking for a few blocks is just as harmful as having shoes that do not fit you. * Poorly fitting shoes can be bad for you. * Women wearing high-heeled shoes for a long time can have a lot of foot problems later on. * Colin recommends we exercise moderation when wearing heels.

[25:15] How to Prevent Running Injuries * Injuries usually result in a mismatch between the style of a person’s foot and the kind of shoe they wear. * Footwear should fit into your foot design so you don’t cram your toes. * Some shoes may fit while you are buying them in a store, but they may end up not fitting at all or when you are already running long distances. * If you don’t know how the sock liner, width, toe spring, and heel drop of the shoe interact, the potential for injury is more significant. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the running injuries that Colin has encountered and how to prevent them.

[32:42] Running on Concrete vs Running on Natural Terrain * The natural terrain is easy to run on compared to concrete. * Mitigate the force of initial contact to avoid injuries. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about what type of shoe you need for different surfaces.

[34:29] On Transitioning Your Footwear * If you want to go barefoot, do it gradually. * Scientific literature has discussed the importance of transition shoes. * If you’re going to drop your 10- to 12-millimetre heel drop shoe to 4, you need to have a 6- to 8-millimetre transition shoe.

[37:22] How Often Should We Change Shoes? * Do not let shoes sit on shelves for more than two years because the material stiffens. * In general, alternating shoes are good after 6800 kilometres. * However, this still depends on how quickly you wear out the outsole of your shoes. * Having shoes with different heel heights for different types of running would be very beneficial.

[42:59] The Brain-Foot Connection * When you ignore stabilisers and prime mover muscles, you get a mismatch in balance and performance. * It’s important at the lower leg holistically. * Colin acknowledges that we get a different sensation if we’re barefoot versus when we have socks and shoes on. * However, it’s a misnomer to say that putting on footwear reduces your proprioception or sensation. * Your brain adjusts to the sensory input being thrown its way.

[48:39] Achilles Injuries * Achilles injuries result when people change the drop of their shoe or change their running style too quickly. * There is a genetic predisposition for people with Achilles issues. * Using things like heel lifts in footwear takes some load off the Achilles, allowing it to heal. * Any ankle restriction can make you use your Achilles differently. * Listen to the full episode to learn about the importance of a multidisciplinary approach in looking at conditions.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘If someone's not getting the right kind of results, it could be that they just need to be adjusted. But then some people don't believe that they need to be adjusted. They believe your foot functions best one particular way’.

‘I think that a lot of people have lost the ability to connect with their brain and their feet and they need to get that ability back’.

‘It's not putting everything into a box of good or bad, you know, but it's looking at it holistically’.

‘We get back to my point where [we do things in] moderation. There's a time to spend time in the sand, there's a time to spend time in the trail, and there's time to get on the road’.

‘If you can get that little bit of variability where you're lengthening some days, you're shortening some days, you're doing different things and your body is used to that, then you're going to be more adaptive. But if you lock into that one pattern, it's going to be so much harder to change’.

‘You also need to have a really good understanding of the whole anatomy of the body because you have to be holistic in your approach’.

‘You know your limits better than somebody else. But I think that there's also a time when you do need to respect the knowledge that someone's gone and spent time attaining.

About Dr Colin Dombroski Dr Colin Dombroski is a podiatrist and a foot specialist of 20 years; he is also an author and a researcher. He works in the world of shoes, orthotics, rehab, and range. He specialises in any feet issues, from plantar fasciitis to Achilles injuries.

Connect with Colin through his website. You may also reach out to him through email or Facebook.

Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can know more about the proper shoes to use for running.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: You're listening to Pushing The Limits with Lisa Tamati, your host. I have a fantastic gift again for you today. Gosh, I managed to come up with some amazing people. So I have the guest Dr Colin Dombroski, who is a podiatrist and expert on everything foot. He's known as the foot specialist. He is the author of two books, Healthy Strong Feet, and The Plantar Fasciitis Plan. He's a researcher, and also has a shoe—a specialist running shoe shop. He knows everything about the cutting edge of foot health.

So this is a topic that's really important, obviously, for all the runners listening out there. Or if you're having any sort of issues with your feet, maybe you're dealing with plantar fasciitis, maybe you have to have orthotics, or you've got arthritis, or you've got bunions, or you've got problems with your Achilles or further up the kinetic chain, then this is the episode for you because we're going to be talking about the cutting edge of science. Dr Colin is really up on the latest thing. He has all the fancy gadgets in his lab that he does. And so it's a really, really interesting conversation that I have with Dr Colin.

Now before we go over to the show. If you are also looking for—doing a running training plan that fits your life and without having to think about how to assemble the entire plan yourself, then please come and check out what we do at Running Hot Coaching. We have a brand new package that we now offer and there's a fully customised package to you, to your goals, to your injuries, your lifestyle, anything that's holding you back, and we can customise it to you. And you'll also get full video analysis done with this package and a one-on-one consult with me in a personalised plan for your next event. Whether that be a marathon, a half marathon, ultramarathon, 10K, it doesn't really matter that's up to you. And you get 12 months of access to Running Hot Coaching’s whole resource library and all the other plans that are available on me, so it’s a super, super deal.

You also get access to our community of over 700 runners from around the world that we get to coach nowadays and hang out with them. And also we do live events on occasion and do regular educational webinars and so on. So everything running. If you want help with it, then we would love to help you get in—make the best out of your running. Okay, so check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.

Right, over to the show now with Dr Colin Dombroski.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hello, everyone. Welcome back to Pushing The Limits. It's your host, Lisa Tamati here. And today I have Colin Dombroski with me, all the way from Ontario in Canada. So welcome to the show, Colin. Fantastic to have you.

Dr Colin Dombroski: Thanks so much for having me.

Lisa: It's really, really exciting. So I am going to be talking to you today about feet. You are the foot guy. You are known as the foot guy. Colin, can you give us a bit of a brief background, why are you known as the foot guy?

Dr Colin: Well, I mean, I'm a Canadian certified podiatrist first and foremost. So I'm trained in both the design and the manufacturer of custom foot orthotics, foot orthotics in general, footwear and lower extremity therapy care, and how those things interact to get people better. And so, we started that back in 2002. And since then, I've gone on to do PhD work in Health and Rehabilitation Science, and research and everything from the basic 3D printings of orthotics to how the foot’s actually moving in a shoe using things like a biplanar fluoroscopy and CT imaging to really understand what's actually going on, as opposed to just kind of guessing and thinking about it or looking at video without actually being able to see inside the shoe.

And so we've seen tens of thousands of patients. We've worked with people over the last 20 years, really working to get them back up and on their feet and doing the things that they want to do to stay healthy. And for some people, it's as simple as walking around the block and for other people it's going to the Olympics in Tokyo.

Lisa: Wow, fantastic. So you're deep into the science...

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: ...of the absolute cutting edge of what we can do now for foot issues and optimising foot health. So tell us a little bit about some of the fancy stuff that you can do, like, how that—you said there you can look into the inside a shoe or...

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: ...rather than just looking at video. How does that work?

Dr Colin: I'll tell you on the research side, there's all kinds of fancy stuff that we were able to do. And so, right now I have an academic appointment through Western University in the School of Physical Therapy. So, I'm lucky enough to be able to do research in what I do specifically. So—and we can do that in a couple of different ways. One is that we actually have a full 3D motion analysis lab at our main business in London Ontario. So it's seven Vicon cameras, much like the way you would see motion analysis for video games or for the movies.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: Well, we use that to study how the lower extremity works in the human body. And so we can either put markers on the foot and cut windows into the shoe, so we can see how things move. That's one way to do it. The other way that we've done it is working with another lab called the wobble lab, and they have two movie x-rays, or what's called biplanar fluoroscopy. And then what we can do is have a CT of somebody's foot, we can take those bones out, we can map them in three-dimensional space. And at 17 times per second, we can move that bone model on top of the actual movie x-ray model to understand what's happening to the foot and the bones in real-time in a shoe, under different circumstances, whether that's no orthotic, orthotic, and we can compare that to their walking barefoot as well.

Lisa: That is insane Colin. I have no idea.

Dr Colin: Yes. it's a cool thing. And if you go on the website, if you go on—I think we have a fluoroscopy video up on stuff about feet. But if we don't, there's certainly one up on the research section of SoleScience, and you're able to actually watch, you can see what we're looking at through this thing.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: And it's really cool to know. And what's really interesting when we look at this stuff is that we wanted to know when we make somebody an orthotic. What's the best way to do that for someone? There's different ways that we can capture somebody's foot, whether we use a foam or a wax method or a plaster mould of somebody's foot, we wanted to know kind of based on a couple of different styles, which one might actually control the motion of their foot a bit better. And we were able to show that one was more effective than another—made a small amount with a very specific foot type.

So, if you have a flatter foot, there are ways of making it that are more effective. But what was really interesting out of that was to look at what was actually happening with the foot when someone was just walking barefoot, when they were just walking in their shoe, or when we put an orthotic in there? Because you know if I can go on a bit of a tangent, there's lots of scary stuff on the internet these days about how, ‘Oh, you don't want to walk in shoes and orthotics because it makes you act like you're walking in a cast. And why would you want to do that'?

Well, what's really interesting is that when we looked at someone's foot walking barefoot, and we compared that to the most supportive thing that we use, they still kept up to 96% of their original motion.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: So, think about that for a second, 96% or one motion.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: So, you're really at that point, if someone's keeping that much of their original range of motion, you really have to wonder, ‘What are we actually doing with these things?’ And I'm going to argue that it's more than just the shoe on someone's foot. It's more than just the device in that shoe, that there could be a lot more actually going on with these things than we fully understand even though we have the best research methods to be able to look at it.

Lisa: That's amazing. I mean, I'm really, really interested because with orthotics, I've recently gone and got my mum an orthotic and you don't know my mum's story. But she had a massive aneurysm five years ago, has dropped foot on the right side, incredible rehabilitation journey, written a book on it. But we're not having such success with the orthotic yet. We are having success with a Dictus where it's helping lift her foot. And I've had in the past two experiences with orthotics when I've had different issues, like, I can't remember now what specifically, I think it was plantar fasciitis. And I've tried different things, admittedly a while ago, and things have obviously moved on. But I haven't had that much success.

So I'm like, as a running coach, I should know more about the latest in science as far as orthotics go. And whether they're my initial reaction back then was, ‘Well, I don't think orthotics are really working for a lot of people’. That's been the feedback from other people as well. So obviously, the science has moved forward and it is offering new insights and you can actually see in real-time what our bones are doing. I mean, it's just absolutely mental, that's crazy and cool. So do you think—isn't it like walking around with a cast on your foot? We've got this whole barefoot craze that's been in the last few years and then we've got brands like Hoka One One coming out with really cushions. So, I think people are a little bit confused as to what they should be doing.

Dr Colin: Yes, and rightfully so.

Lisa: Our orthotic is good. Our orthotics in general is—can we generalise when it's very specific.

Dr Colin: Nope. Not at all. We can’t generalise it all and that's the problem when it comes to this stuff is that people are trying to fit everybody into a box. And saying that either it's really good, or it's really bad. It’s either of those things? Like, to the end of the day, if you really need them, if you have rheumatoid arthritis, and you're unable to walk around the block, and I'm able to get you active again, they're really good for you.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely.

Dr Colin: Right? But if you have no risk factors, if you have no biomechanical abnormalities, if you have no foot deformities and no other issues, then what's the benefit of wearing them at the end of the day? And so to that end of things, a lot of the time, I feel as though we're missing the middle ground. We're missing the fact that people can use these things, either as a tool to help them with recovery and performance that we can then work to wean them off, if they so choose, or if they need to be, or we use them because there's a real thing where structure dictates function and injury.

But again, why are we looking to see whether or not people are either yes or no, off or on? It's more of a continuum. And I kind of like to look at people and the fact that over on this end of the spectrum, here, you've got people who are so gifted biomechanically that they can do anything they want to do, despite doing it wrong. They can go couch to marathon in old worn-out shoes with poor sleep with bad nutrition, and they can do it and they don't get hurt. And you've got people on the other end of the spectrum that can do everything, right, and work with the best coaches and get the best equipment and eat and sleep and everything else. But they're plagued with injury, right?

Most people are going to be somewhere in the middle, the question though, so, which side of the spectrum do you lie more towards? And that's where I feel my job comes in, is to figure out where that is, and then how to appropriately apply these things, whether or not you actually need them. And I build a business on telling people when they don't need them.

Lisa: That's brilliant.

Dr Colin: And when they don't need them anymore. So, it's actually quite shocking when someone comes into my office for their ninth orthotic, and I say, ‘Well, tell me about it'. And so they—we talk about stuff, and we come to the conclusion that they just don't need them anymore.

And they're shocked, they think that these things are like a lifelong sentence. And they're not. For some people, they are the difference between being able to be active or not. And for other people, there's simply a tool, and we use that tool appropriately, and we remove it.

Lisa: That is absolutely gold, Colin. And what a fantastic approach in, like, working with people with disabilities and stuff, I know there are definitely times when we do need them, and they're going to benefit and it is very much about the skill of the person who's fitting the orthotic and knows, obviously, what they're doing. And there’s a lot of advertising out there; rubbish sort of advertising that you see with different standard gum, pick it off the shelf type things, what's your opinion on those types of orthotics?

Dr Colin: Well, I mean, if those—so, if something like that, like if an over the counter device works for you, for—let's say you have a mild case of metatarsalgia. Let's say you have a small ache in the front part of your foot when you're active, and you've done all the rest of the conservative therapy things. You're strong, you're flexible, everything else is ticked off, and you're still not doing well. Sometimes removing that little bit of mechanical stress can be enough that allows the tissues to heal and you can move on. Right? So in those cases, yes, they work quite well.

But in some cases, if you have a foot type that doesn't match up with that shaped plastic that's pushing against your foot, it might not work so much. And kind of to your point where you were saying you had them for plantar fasciitis before, and they just didn't work for you, it could be a multitude of reasons why they didn't work for you. And we see that all the time.

And if someone's not getting the right kind of results, it could be that they just need to be adjusted. But then some people don't believe that they need to be adjusted. They believe your foot functions best, one particular way. And they say, ‘Here, this is for you. This is the way it should be, get used to it'.

Lisa: And then it's the whole side of: you should be doing strengthening exercises and rolling and stretching. What's your take on the whole on that side of it? So the rehabilitation side of it as opposed to the orthotic side of the equation?

Dr Colin: Well, so my—the way that we teach about orthotics is that orthotics for some conditions are not a first line treatment unless you have significant risk factors. If you're diabetic, then yes, 100% we're making you orthotics. But for a lot of people especially let's take plantar fasciitis for instance. If you come to me and you've had plantar fasciitis only for a few weeks, there is a whole host of other therapies that you can try before you even need to think about that. Is removing the stress off the tissue, the strain off the tissue with the device and footwear appropriate? Heck yes, it is. But there are other things that you need to look at first before you even go down the route of orthotics which is actually why I wrote my first book. And it's to tell people the things that they can do at home to be able to get themselves better for four to six weeks before they have to see somebody like me to think about orthotics.

Lisa: Okay, so what was the title of that book, Colin?

Dr Colin: Oh, it's called The Plantar Fasciitis Plan.

Lisa: The Plantar Fasciitis Plan and that is available on Amazon?

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: Okay, so in New Zealand, we might struggle with Amazon, but we don't have Amazon down here, believe it or not.

Dr Colin: I have no idea.

Lisa: We can access it, but some things can ship from over the air and some not so. But we'll put the links in the show notes for sure for those listening who are overseas and want to read that book. Okay, so you mentioned...

Dr Colin: And to speak to your last question...

Lisa: Absolutely.

Dr Colin: ...which was, what do you think about the whole foot strengthening part of it?

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: I think it's very important, I think that a lot of people have lost the ability to connect with their brain and their feet, and they need to get that ability back, it's shocking how many people I see that can do something as simple as move their toes, or lift their arch, or do some of the simple things that they need to do to make feet work as feet. Right? And so, getting them back to that foot connection is only a positive thing. Like, the only good things are going to come out of that.

Lisa: So, is this like, is this a problem of the modern human because we've walked around in shoes. Did humans, before shoes come along, did we all have great feet? Strong powerful feet because we were barefoot from the get go? So is this a problem of the modern human but like with—I've just done a couple of episodes on breathing and the way that we are chewing is affecting our structure of our mouth and therefore we're not having such good breathing and so on. Is that similar sort of case?

Dr Colin: I really think that when you talk to a question about that, it's really hard to compare those two things because we're just not there right now. You know what I mean? So, yes, if we didn't wear clothes, and we didn't drive cars, and we didn't eat the way that we did, yes, things would be different than where they are. But like, we drive our cars to go five blocks down the street to get to Starbucks, we don't walk. So, that alone is just as deleterious as footwear that doesn't fit you properly.

So when it comes to shoes, again, there's lots of scariness out there on the internet, talking about how these things, again, make you walk like your cast or is deforming your feet. And yes, I would agree that a poorly fit shoes that are way too tight cramming your toes, putting stress on nerves and tissues certainly can be a bad thing for you. But do I think that there's this gigantic conspiracy out there that's making the collective feet of the world less strong and everything else? No, I really don't, to that end. And again, as a recovery tool, they can be marvellous things if done correctly.

Lisa: Yes, it's a really good approach. I mean, it reminds me of my dad's feet. My dad who recently passed, unfortunately. But my dad had the most amazing, strong, powerful feet, he grew up in the first 13 years of life and not wearing shoes. Came from a very humble background with eight children, and they only had one pair of gumboots in the family. So he grew up with these incredibly powerful feet.

By the time he was in his 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, he could walk around barefoot all day, never have any sort of problems. The state of his heels weren't the best. But muscular feet, really strong powerful feet, because he didn't wear shoes until he was older and then still like to go barefoot whenever possible, actually connected to the earth, weed garden all day, and their feet at the most jungles. So I did see it in that. Quite the effects of having that real connection to Mother Earth if you like in developing those sort of strong muscles in our feet.

And then on the other side of the equation. I see people with diabetics or close to being pre-diabetic problems with extremely tender feet and poor circulation in the feet and their feet are just not moving well and have always been in shoes. So it's like opposite ends of the scale via. So, where was I going with this? There's a real broad range of where people are at. Another thing that I think is to consider is women in high heeled shoes, what's your take on that sort of a problem? Like, were lifting your heels up and having a shortened calf. And that's sort of a problem.

Dr Colin: Well, I mean, that for too long of a period of time just gives you a whole myriad of problems from metatarsalgia, and progressing bunion issues, and nerve problems, and chronically short Achilles because of that shortening specifically, yes. I mean, we see that all the time. I'm very much a fan of moderation when it comes to these things.

And so for a lot of my patients, if they want to spend an evening, every now and again, where they're primarily sitting in a pair of heels, then I feel as though the trade-off for what they get out of that is okay, comparatively. Again, it's not putting everything into a box of good or bad, but it's looking at it holistically.

Lisa: Brilliant. I think it's a really good approach.

Dr Colin: Yes, if you're a retail worker, and you're spending 10 hours a day, on your feet, heels are definitely not the thing you want to be wearing.

Lisa: Yes, you've got to sacrifice the elegance, ladies. Sometimes you help that little pushes.

Dr Colin: A little bit sometimes. And you know where I end up seeing that a lot? It’s in lawyers. A lot of my patients who are lawyers. There is definitely a culture of dress code and professionalism that comes from wearing heels. And I see a lot of injured lawyers because of that, specifically.

Lisa: Isn't that interesting? So yes, really take heed because I do think doing that on a daily basis, yes. The odd night out in a pair of heels to look elegant is fine, but not doing it every single day, were you really shortening, I mean, just, I'm always sort of relating things back to my life. But with mum having aneurysm, being bedridden pretty much for 18 months before we could get her standing. And I didn't understand at the beginning about drop foot, I missed the boat. And by the time I realised what drop foot was, that had happened very, very quickly, that her foot was now dropped until we're still working on that right through now, to be able to lift set front of the foot up and having to use a Dictus in her case, which lifts the front of the foot up. So it happens very—it happens quicker than what you think.

Dr Colin: It can, certainly. Yes. Now the brace that your mum's using, do you mind if I asked you a quick question? Is she using an over-the-counter one or a custom one?

Lisa: So it's an over-the-counter Dictus one as I didn't know there was such a thing as a customised Dictus. So it's just a leather strap that goes around with a rubber that goes over inside these two little hooks at the bottom of the shoes that pulls the shoe up. So is there something better, Colin?

Dr Colin: Well, so, take a look for something called an Allard ToeOff AFO. And we use them a lot in clinics for patients with drop foot and they're actually designed to be to run marathons and events and they're quite robust.

Lisa: Okay, I’ll take note of that.

Dr Colin: And it might be a great training tool too. They're very light. You should wear them under a pair of pants. A lot of people like the fact that they don't see the direct brace.

Lisa: Yes, yes. Yes, exactly. This one's quite ugly. So, is it Allard?

Dr Colin: A-L-L-A-R-D.

Lisa: Oh, brilliant.

Dr Colin: So as in Allard ToeOff.

Lisa: Allard ToeOff, I will check that out. See, this is a selfish reason why I get to talk to experts.

Dr Colin: There we go.

Lisa: Because you never know when it's gonna help somebody you know? It's fantastic. I'll check that one out. Yes, because that is a real problem. And there's so many—this is not a rare thing, drop foot. It's a very, very common thing with people with strokes and aneurysms and the like.

Dr Colin: It is.

Lisa: So, there's a lot of people dealing with it so going into the rehabilitation side of things. We have a shoe that has a rocker so she's able to toe-off slightly better in that rocker and keep her center of mass moving forward. Rather than sitting really back which she was doing. So yes, so I'm always looking for the next best thing for my mum from the show. So, appreciate that.

Dr Colin: No problem. And since you're a runner and all that stuff, the Asics Metaride is my favourite carbon shoe rocker. We've got so many people who really require surgery, fusions, things like that because of osteoarthritic toes or ankles or mid feet that can get into a shoe like that.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: And for people who are that age, they're not nearly as flashy looking as some of the other carbon rockered shoes that are available.

Lisa: Yes, but who cares as long as they function properly. Okay, Asics Metaride. Okay, we'll check those one out too. Now let's jump ship and change direction a little bit and go into running specific injuries. So we did touch briefly on playing to the shortest. But what are some of the common injuries that you see? And what are some of the ways that we can prevent? And how does it have a knock-on effect? Like what happens in your feet, knocks on the kinetic chain, doesn't it?

Dr Colin: Of course. Yes. So what I take a look at, the one of the biggest things are going to be mismatches between the style of foot that somebody has and their mechanics and the kind of shoe they wind up getting into. And so there's nothing like being able to mismatch the way that your foot wants to move, and then a shoe that's going to either work completely and pushing it in the same direction. So for instance, if you're a supinator, where your foot rolls to the outside, and then you get into an anti-pronation shoe, which a lot of people are—there's actually been research to show that runners are poor judges of their own foot type.

Lisa: Right.

Dr Colin: And if they get into that kind of footwear that makes them into more of a supinator. I can't tell you how many lateral column foot pain problems we see and perennial overuse problems and things like that. So simply mismatching your footwear to what your foot is doing can be one of them.

Lisa: Okay. Getting on and off the shelf is not, and diagnosing yourself is probably not a good idea if you're a serious runner who wants to do some serious racing.

Dr Colin: Well, maybe it's a good idea to run your findings by someone else who can take an objective third-party look at you. And so some people think, ‘Oh, my foot is so flat, I need to get into this kind of footwear'. And that might not always be the case when it comes down to it. So the footwear component of it is so big. Making sure that it actually fits the way that your foot is designed. So if you have a particularly wide forefoot and a narrower rear foot, looking for things that actually match up with that, so that you're not cramming your toes into a pair of shoes.

Lisa: As a run coach, if I can just pipe in there that has been one of the biggest mistakes that I've seen so many athletes buy. They go into a shoe shop that does foot analysis, and they proceed them on a treadmill and so on. So they may have the right type of shoe, but they're after buying the shoe in a cold state. So i.e., they've just walked into a shop, they haven't been on their feet all day, they haven't been running for 30K's, their feet are not swollen.

And then they go and if they do marathons, or especially ultramarathons, their feet are swelling. And especially I've seen this in women where we tend to swell tissues in my opinion, not scientifically-backed or anything but my observation is that women's feet swell more than men. And the size of the shoe is then way too small, especially in the toe box. And this often leads to pain on the top of the foot and the cutting off of circulation there. And I've seen problems with the shins and so on.

Have you—is it a thing? Have you seen this sort of a trend as well, where they're going into the shop, and it's fitting in the shop on the day that they buy it, but when they're long-distance runners, that becomes a problem, especially when they're running under heat?

Dr Colin: 100%. Yes, I mean, fatigue is one of those things that wrecks everything. But at the end of the day, when you're not fatigued, and you're ready to take a pair of shoes, and you're trying it on, you don't know how the inside of your ankle is gonna rub against that shoe until you've spent 30, 40, 50k in it to really understand what's happening there. So the idea that something is going to ‘break in’, in quotation marks is something that I like to try to shy away from as much as I possibly can.

The biggest issue that we see from most people is they just fit them incorrectly, right? They fit them too short. And so if things do swell, if there's movement or any of that stuff, you're going to get problems along with the feet, whether it's friction and blisters or black toenails, or what have you. The length of that, and then especially the curve of the toes, makes such a big difference.

And so, a lot of footwear stores these days might not carry the full breadth of width available. And so for instance, New Balance comes in ladies from a 2A to a 2E and everything else in between.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: So it comes in a 2A, and a B, and a D and then a 2E. So when you have to carry four widths of shoes from a size 5 to a size 13...

Lisa: That’s expensive.

Dr Colin: ...including half sizes, that's expensive. And that's only for one colour.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: Right? So when you think about that, you understand why you might not be able to find the full breadth of width in a lot of these things. Because shoe stores will have a hard time selling through and if they can't, they can't make money and stay open. So, but if you're one of those people that are on either end of the spectrum, then you need to find a place that will cater towards those kinds of things and that understand the nuances and the differences within brands. So, I mean I've seen people go up a full size in between different models of shoes within the same brand of a company.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: So, for instance, the New Balance 880 and the New Balance 840 fit completely different. The sock liner is three times as thick, the width is more, the toe spring is different, the heel drop is different, all of that stuff. And if you don't know how each one of those things interact with someone, then the potential for injury is just greater.

Lisa: Wow. And yes, I can definitely relate to that having had—I've had many different sponsorship agreements over my career. And some of the companies, a couple of them, I had to actually leave because I just could not wear their shoes and they were so different in other ones that I just absolutely loved and were able to stick with. And I've got a very wide foot. And so I have to be in a men’s shoe. But when I was doing desert races in extreme heat in Death Valley and the likes, I had shoes that were two sizes too big for me.

Dr Colin: Wow.

Lisa: So, that's what I worked out was the sweet spot. So at that point, I wouldn't get the blisters and I wouldn't get the black toenails, and I wouldn't get the foot just swelling so much that it's boosting out the sides of the shoes and putting pressure on top of the foot and causing—and I've had it all awful shin problems by having that circulation cut off at the top of the foot.

I remember a race I did in Germany 338 kilometres in five days. So, we're doing 70 kilometres a day. And after day one, my shoes were just way too tight. And by then the damage was done. And an old-timer, who was in the race, said to me, ‘Hey, you need to cut your socks and open your shoes right up'. And that was a piece of advice that I carried with me being from the norm because, and I ended up doing that very often. So even something like a pair of socks that is too tight around the ankle can cause shin problems. I mean, I've experienced that firsthand, and on the top of the funnel as well. So it really makes a heck of a difference, isn't it?

Dr Colin: Oh, it's so does and you know, when you're looking at the trail shoes and things like that, the choices become even more frustrating.

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, let’s talk trail because what trail—we weren't as humans, like, we didn't evolve to run on concrete and pads. So what's your take on how bad is it to be running on roads and concrete versus the natural terrain of a trail so to speak?

Dr Colin: Well, I mean, certainly the natural trait of a trail is going to be easier for you to run on versus concrete and asphalts and those types of things. And when we looked at the literature, and some of the research said that it's—there's been a lot of fun running research that's come out in the last 15 years. But a lot of our initial contact strategies, so whether you stride on your heel, your midfoot or your forefoot, a lot of it has to do with mitigating the force of that initial contact. And so if you're running on an incredibly hard surface, you might adapt to changing your initial contact to be able to mitigate those loads of that initial load.

Whereas when you have a softer, spongier service to do on, you have a bit more leeway to be able to stride in a different pattern. And so for people who are rehabbing from injuries, yes, getting into something that's a little bit spongier is certainly going to be more forgiving. Now, you can take that all the way to running on the beach, and that causing some problems as well just from the increased biomechanics that that causes too. So to get back to my point where moderation.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: There's a time to spend time in the sand, and there's a time to spend time in the trail, and there's time to get on the road.

Lisa: And this trend it transition times, like when the barefoot craze hurt when my friend Chris McDougall’s book came out Born to Run and it sort of revolutionised everybody's thinking was like, ‘We gotta go barefoot because Barefoot Ted was doing it’. And we saw a lot of injuries come out of that. And no, no, no detriment on the book. It was a fantastic book. But people just went too fast, too far too fast. And we really need a transition time if we wanting to go barefoot. Would you agree with that?

Dr Colin: Oh, it's not a matter of me agreeing with it, that that's just a matter of scientific fact.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: I mean, if you want to go from—which so I do agree with it. To that end, yes. There's nothing that's going to increase your risk of getting hurt more than taking off your footwear and going for a barefoot run. If you're used to wearing a maximalist style of shoe, taking it off going barefoot for 21K, you'll be lucky if you don't come back with a stress fracture. And certainly, my practice has been a mirror of that, right? I mean, at the end of the day, I see injured runners all day every day. That's what I do.

So, I like to joke that the greatest predictor of running injuries is running. But to that end, if you want to make these changes, I think they're great for people. And I think that they're able to make these changes in a proper informed way. And so even looking to what some of the scientific literature says they talk about a transition shoe specifically, right? If you're going to go from a regular 10 or 12 mil heel drop shoe to 4, 0, having a 6 to 8 mil transition shoe wouldn't be a bad idea.

There's one company that will remain nameless that when they changed all their heel heights from 12 mil to 8 mil, and no one really understood what that meant. I can't tell you the number of Achilles problems and things that came into the clinic two years after that.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: Because making even that 4-millimetre change in someone who puts in 60 to 80 kilometres a week, and they're used to loading their tissues in a particular way when you all of a sudden change that with up to three times your bodyweight up to 10,000 steps, that's a huge change for your body all of a sudden.

Lisa: Wow, that is insane. Just from a very small change. And look we all—lots of people just swap different shoes ‘Oh try those ones, or this time, I'll buy those’.

Dr Colin: Yes, exactly.

Lisa: And so is it—and this is the other thing, brands keep changing.

Dr Colin: Yes, every season.

Lisa: ‘Ugh, damn. It's something new, it was perfect. And now it's gone again, I can't get it’.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: So by a couple of pieces, when you do get something that's right.

Dr Colin: 100%. But even that, don't let them sit on the shelves for more than two years.

Lisa: Oh, okay. Why is it? Do they degrade after that you sort of leave them?

Dr Colin: Actually the materials get stiff, the longer you leave them there. And so, that pair that felt really cushy a couple years ago, they let them sit for a couple of years, they're going to be harder...

Lisa: Oh, gosh.

Dr Colin: ...when you take them out of the box.

Lisa: Oh, okay.

Dr Colin: So you can't just let them sit for years on the shelf.

Lisa: And onto that note. How many kilometres? Like, how often should you be changing? I've always said between six and 800 kilometres max, what's your take on that? Is there a new science around that?

Dr Colin: Science is interesting when it comes to that. I mean, there isn't a lot of actual hard science on that. The soft science of it is to look at the bottoms of your shoes and see. If you're a heavier person, at your initial contact, and I don't mean heavy, like actually just a larger BMI. But some people, my wife is a light woman but she sounds like she's going to come through the floor, two floors down when she walks. And so she'll wear out the outsole of a shoe much faster than somebody who strikes the ground a little bit lighter. And so if you look at the bottoms of your footwear and let's say you're only 400K into a pair of shoes, but there's an angle now where the lugs are totally sheared off one side, that shoe was now forcing you to walk that way. And it's not helping your biomechanics at all.

And so yes, I think as it—as a general rule, 6 to 800 kilometres is okay. But if you're not, if you're training on consecutive days, and if you're training in one pair of shoes, you're going to break down the EVA material much faster because that material needs about 36 hours to rebound fully, before it's ready to go again. But if you're training 24 hours, you're going to break down your shoe much faster.

Lisa: Wow, that's a good point. I knew that. And I'd forgotten that fact. Thanks for reminding me of that because yes, alternating shoes on different days is something that I used to say, and I’ve forgotten completely about that one. So, that's a really good point. So, having a couple of pairs of shoes on the go, is a really, really good idea.

Dr Colin: Yes, 100%. And to that end too we were talking about, with transition shoes, and whatnot, having them even a different heel heights for different types of running would also be great. I mean, so while you're doing a fartlek training, or tempo run, or a long day might be different than what your ratio is, or the all day everyday shoe. And so that little bit of variability, I think, is a really positive thing.

When you get locked into one movement pattern all the time, then your body comes to predict that. And if you can get that little bit of variability where you're lengthening some days, you're shortening some days, you're doing different things, and your body is used to that, then you're going to be more adaptive. But if you lock into that one pattern, it's going to be so much harder to change.

Lisa: That seems to be the thing for everything in biology column. It seems to be a push and pull in a variety. You don't want to starve for too long, you don't want to eat too much for too long, you don't want to be too cold or in a thermoneutral zone for too long, you want—the body wants variety change. Not the same diet every day, not the same everything every day, and just by varying things up, we're giving our body a chance to get what it needs, and to have that variation—that push and pull that biology in all levels that I've been looking at seems to be cycling things. Cycling diet, cycling supplements, cycling shoes, cycling, changing in variety keeps the body guessing and keeps it changing, and keeps it so it doesn't go, ‘I've got this. And it's a piece of cake'.

Actually, I thought it just popped in my head. What do you think of Kipchoge shoes? The sub-two-hour marathon, the Nike shoes.

Dr Colin: Oh, yes. Yes, I mean, wow, there—this is a fun time to be alive for nerds like myself. So yes, I mean, there's some really cool stuff that Nike’s doing in some of their footwear. And they're—I mean, one of the leaders. But I mean, everyone now is coming out with a carbon plated shoe, and really aggressive rockers, and a lot of this stuff from a performance standpoint. And it'll be interesting to see how it's controlled and how it's covered. And to what lengths can we go to be able to increase the performance of humans? We developed things like oxygen deprivation to be able to increase your red blood cell counts, to be able to increase your performance. Changes in footwear like this are not that dissimilar from that. It's just a question of, how much can we use them? And how does it work with you?

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: Yes, and what's gonna be legal.

Lisa: And at the moment, it is, isn't it? Like it's...

Dr Colin: It is.

Lisa: Yes. And I had a friend, who's a holistic movement coach, I had on the show, actually, a few weeks ago talking about feet as well, the health of feet. And he said, ‘I didn't want to like those Kipchoge shoes', but I— because he's very much into barefoot when possible and developing strength in the feet. He said, ‘But I put’...

Dr Colin: Well, that certainly is the opposite.

Lisa: He said, ‘I have to admit, I run a hell of a lot faster when I'm soaked’.

Dr Colin: Sure. Yes. But that comes back to the point of moderation, right? Is that there's a time for that shoe, just like there's a time to be barefoot. And it's using it in the appropriate fashion.

Lisa: Wow, that's brilliant. And okay, let's talk about the knock-on effect of how the feet which have and you know this 100 times better than me, there's just a ton of nerves, a ton of bones as most complex structure that we have, the proprioception, and the connection between the brain is just so important that we actually have that neurofeedback from our feet. So, what sort of a fix do—what sort of things can we expect to have happen on a good side from proprioception when we're doing lots of activity? And we're doing lots of different movement types and varieties of training? And how does it help our brain? The brain-foot connection, I think, is what I'm trying to ask you here.

Dr Colin: Well, I mean, anything that's going to make you more aware of what your foot’s doing in space is, again, only going to be a positive both from a balance and a performance perspective. It's striking to me that I can see some people perform incredible feats of athleticism, but then can't balance on one foot to do a pistol squat.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: Do you know what I mean?

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: Because they just don't have control over their ankle. And so when people think of their feet, that's one thing. But I mean, the actual foot itself, though, those deep intrinsic layers of muscles are more stabilisers than they are prime movers, right? The prime movers are going to be higher up in the leg, and the tendons of those larger muscles in the leg support the ankle, right? They're the ones that are tibialis posterior, and the perennials and the things that actually wrap around the ankle. So it's a matter of looking at the lower leg holistically, not just the foot itself.

Yes, those little foot muscles are important. But I think oftentimes, some of the higher stuff up is overlooked as well as the actual prime movers and the actual real good stabilizers that way because those things are going to fatigue out relatively fast, and then you're left with the larger muscles to be able to do some of those things. But when you're not paying attention to one of those two, then you're going to get a mismatch in balance and performance. And so it's a matter of being able to look at more. It's about being able to use your abductor hallucis appropriately, being able to use all of those intrinsics to raise up your arch a bit and reduce some strain in your plantar fascia.

I would never go as far as saying you're going to change the structure of your foot by making your foot muscles strong, but certainly, you're going to get a better grip on the ground and you're going to be able to use your feet like feet and not just like a meat slab that hit the ground to be able to get to the next step.

Lisa: Yes, is it a bit like if I was to go around with gloves all day, and I wouldn't have the dexterity that I would need to do typing and learn to play an instrument or anything like that. Is that what's happening with our shoes, when we’re in shoes all day, every day, we're just taking away that connection to the brain and the brain's ability to be able to make those subtle adjustments with those little tiny muscles doing their thing?

Dr Colin: You can look at it two different ways, right? Because one might say that yes, if you're barefoot and you know you've got skin on the ground, you are going to get a different sensation than if you have sock and then something else between you and the ground. Right? There's just different feedback when it comes to it.

But to say that putting footwear on reduces your proprioception, or your sensation completely, is a bit of a misnomer. Because if you have something that's, let's say, a little bit squishier, and your foot’s moving around a bit more, well, that's also a signal to your brain too in terms of where to fire muscles, and how to fire muscles and using those muscles on top of it. So, I think we can go in both directions. And again, there is a time when it's going to be appropriate. And there's a time when you want to be barefoot and getting that sensory input in just a different fashion to say—because, at the end of the day, I just don't think it's realistic in the society that we live in that we're not going to be out of it completely.

Lisa: We don’t want to come from class, and you know...

Dr Colin: And so yes. So it's a matter of figuring out how to do that, in a fashion that's most appropriate, given the circumstances that you find yourself in.

Lisa: A bit of a left-field question and a bit of a non-scientific well, oh well, there's probably stuff coming out now. What's your take on having though the connection to Mother Earth and grounding? And that type of thing, and being in the dirt, so to speak, and having the actual contact with the earth? Is there anything to that side of things? Or is it just no scientific data really around that?

Dr Colin: There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, at the end of the day, and from a data and a science standpoint, I'm the first one to tell you that I'm not 100% up on that.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: But I was listening to another podcast. It was Ben Greenfield recently.

Lisa: Yes, I like him.

Dr Colin: Who was talking about some of—yes, yes, yes, same—as some of the science around that specifically. And I believe that there might be some science that has come out, I just haven't read it to be able to be up on it to be 100% honest with you.

Lisa: Yes. I mean, I've heard various things and even like getting your hands on the dirt and gardening and how much of a good effect that can have on your body and your mind and your mood and things like that.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: And I mean, we are in science starting to actually see why is it important to go out and have early morning sunlight and circadian rhythms and all of these sorts of things...

Dr Colin: True, true.

Lisa: ...and connection to the ground and the effects of the medicine, and I don't think we're there yet with all the science. But my take is—on that is yes, go out and spend 10 minutes a day with your hands and the dirt and connect with the ground. And if nothing, the being in nature is definitely going to calm you down and make you feel better.

Dr Colin: 100%.

Lisa: Yes, so that's already, I think—okay, so just looking at some most common running injuries before we sort of wrap up the call. If we can look at like plantar fasciitis and perhaps Achilles and calf muscle injuries and perhaps knees. It's a picture you will cover in a few minutes, isn't it? If we want, the second podcast, Dr Colin.

Dr Colin: Yes. We can do a podcast on each one of those actually.

Lisa: Well, actually, I think I will be getting you on because your knowledge is next level.

Dr Colin: Thank you.

Lisa: So let's talk a little bit about say Achilles.

Dr Colin: Sure.

Lisa: It's one of—it's a very common problem.

Dr Colin: It is. Yes, yes, it really, really is. And Achilles is a difficult one. Again, depending on where things are at and what we know, whether it's insertional, or midportion, there are definitely are two different protocols when it comes to it. So, from the physio side whether you do eccentric loading, which is raising up on two feet, lowering down on one or whether you're doing a different kind of strengthening programme that really is sort of the physio side of that end of it, where I tend to come in on that and where I tend to see a lot of Achilles injuries are people who wind up changing the drop of their shoe too quickly. And so they're used to running in something that's either too low or too high and then make it an abrupt sudden change, or they change their running style too quickly.

So, it's very common to see people who go—who are heel strikers who want to try forefoot running for the first time and if they do it improperly when you load the ground with your heel, I mean, yes, we know that if you overstride braking forces and everything else are really bad for you and smashing your heel into the ground might not be ideal for everybody.

But if you're running on your forefoot, you're striking, your initial contact is with your forefoot, then you touch your heel. Then you push off your forefoot again, right? So, one is heel midfoot toe, one is forefoot heel, forefoot. So, to that end, you're going through a much larger cycle of Achilles loading. And so for some people, especially who—if gene, you were talking about genetics earlier, we know that there is a genetic predisposition for some people, or Achilles issues specifically if you're one of those people, then that can certainly be a bad thing if you do it too quickly.

And so to that end, we talked about the very first thing we do is deload the Achilles. So using things like heel shoe, heel lifts, and footwear, to be able to, for a short period of time, take some of that load off the Achilles, allow it to heal and then gradually reloaded it as they've been working with their physio to be able to gain back strength and mobility and everything else. The one thing that I like to look at everybody who comes to my clinic because I think it's so incredibly important, is their ability to move their ankle appropriately because their calf musculature is flexible enough.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Colin: And I'll get into trouble there because some people say, ‘It's not coming from your calf, it's coming from your hip'. It can be coming from your hip certainly if you have things that are changing your pelvic tilt, and it's lengthening your hamstring, and it's doing that, and then you're getting the effect of change that comes with it, it's a matter of just looking at it to understand where that change is coming from. But any ankle restriction in your range of motion can make you use your Achilles in a different way, the simplest way for your body to compensate for that is to out-toe and pronate more, well, you're going to get a rotational stress on your Achilles, for some people that's just going to be too much combined with the kind of running programme that they're doing. And so one thing to think about for sure.

Lisa: Wow, this is like, you're a foot specialist, but you also need to have a really good understanding of the whole anatomy of the body really, don't you? Because you have to be a holistic in your approach because, and then this is one of the issues that I have with the medical world in general, now speaking is that they’re so siloed. If you've got a lung problem, you go to the lung specialist, or the pulmonary, if you've got a heart and then the ear, nose and throat are separate, and yet it's to do with your lungs, like, we need to have a holistic ‘Look At It systems’ in the body or the—not even systems, but the entire body, so everybody has to have it.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: And it's difficult because you have to have a specialised education in feet, you can't be an expert in feet and an expert in hips.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: But you do need a general education to be able to understand: what the roles of the other therapists or doctors or whatever it is in order to have a good understanding. And I think that holistic approach were possible, into sort of disciplinary communication, is really, really important. Would you agree with it?

Dr Colin: Oh, that's the only way that I work is multi-disciplinary. And so if there's one specialist that thinks that they can fix everything, then that usually makes me want to run away screaming. And because there's just isn't enough flexibility in your thinking to understand that, maybe what you're doing won't be enough for somebody. And again, can't tell you the number of people that come in to say, ‘I've seen my ex-specialists who said, there's nothing else that can be done. We get them back running within six weeks'.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: You know what I mean? It's only because we were flexible enough in our thinking to be able to say, ‘Yes, we're gonna change this little thing over here. That might be the thing that's going to get you back to what you want to be doing'. So, it’s so...

Lisa: I could go in a rant on that, really. I could go on a rant about the amount of times that people have been told, ‘You can never run again'. I was told I would never run when I broke my back when I was a young lady. And that were wrong, 70,000 kilometres later.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: If I'd lifted up to so-called experts who, with my mother who had a massive brain aneurysm five years ago and who said that initial, ‘You’ll never have any quality of life again’. She's got massive brain damage. They were wrong. I spent five years rehabilitating her, but they were wrong, and she's completely normal again. So, it's not just accepting—what I think is important to realise is the limitations of your knowledge and saying, ‘Hey, I don't know, I'm at the end of my abilities'. You might have to look somewhere else, or outside the square, or try something else to talk, to so and so.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: And that's fine. That's good if we get there but not blanket saying, ‘Well, you can never run again because you've got a knee injury.’ The amount of times, amount of runners who have come on doctors said I should never run again because I've got some slight knee problems, and I was like, ‘Really?’

Dr Colin: Yes, no, I agree. So, a case in point in my own life, I have congenital arthritis. That's so bad. I had my first hip reconstruction at 17.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Colin: That left me with a four-centimetre leg length discrepancy. So I've got some real orthopaedic problems. And was racing mountain bikes at almost the pro-level in Canada in downhill at the time, and wanted to pursue that. And I was told, ‘Never ride a bike again', this kind of stuff. And I'll be doing a half Ironman in Muskoka in July...

Lisa: Wow. I love it.

Dr Colin: ...25 years later.

Lisa: Exactly.

Dr Colin: So, yes. At the end of the day...

Lisa: And if we keep founding way round the problem. Yes.

Dr Colin: Yes, I mean, you know your limits better than somebody else. But I think that there's also a time when you do need to respect the knowledge that someone's done and spent time attaining. But if they'll put aside all of your own expectations and things, then they're not doing you a good service.

Lisa: No, no. And sometimes they're wrong, and they're just not up—what I'm also saying, and we're getting off on a tangent here, but it is a—if your life is different there's definitely a 20-year lag between what's actually the latest in science and what's actually happening in clinical practice.

Dr Colin: Yes, true.

Lisa: And not so much in the area like you have, but saying things like critical care and things like this, it's just so far behind the eight ball because there's so many hoops that they have to jump through in order to get anything changed, that the science can be saying, ‘Hey, this is what you need to be doing'. And they'll be like, ‘Yes, we need another 20 years before we got adopted'.

Dr Colin: Yes, knowledge translation is difficult.

Lisa: Yes, it just seems to be this huge lag, and in some areas of medicine but I've gotten completely off-topic. But I love talking with people that are on the cutting edge of stuff, and I find your knowledge is absolutely next level.

Colin, I think we're gonna have to get you back because we didn't even get to plantar fasciitis and hips and knees, and all the rest of it and...

Dr Colin: I'd love to.

Lisa: Yes, what you're doing... So, before we wrap it up, where can people find out your books and obviously, you've said on Amazon, but give us your websites, and where people can follow you on Instagram and all that sort of good stuff.

Dr Colin: So we're just starting to build out a website called stuffaboutfeet.com. So that's probably the best place to get me right now. You'll be able to see some of the books that are on there, other podcasts that I've done, you'll watch some videos, and then that's going to be built up just more and more and moreover the coming weeks and months.

And through that site, you'll be able to get to me whether it's a personal email or you want to get on the socials or what have you. And so I've been kind of locked away in both the research lab and the clinic office for too many years. And now we're going to get me a bit more online and doing a few more of these things.

Lisa: Yes, and you're so talented at this interviewing and stuff. So it's really easy to be able to share your knowledge and to get it out there. And then you can have much more of a massive impact worldwide rather than just locally, which is fantastic. You know that we can do that now with technology. So I love getting world-leading people on the show and sharing the amazing insights. And you definitely right up there, Colin. So thank you very, very much for sharing your insights today. So stuffaboutfeet.com, was that right? Was that correct? And that you've been listening to Colin Dombrowski.

Colin, any last words that you would like to share with people out there?

Dr Colin: You know, I really hope at the end of the day that you use your knowledge, the best to be able to get out there and do the things that you want to do. And don't put yourself in a box, really understand that you're capable of the things that you think that you are, it's just a matter of figuring out how to do them appropriately.

Lisa: Yes. And getting the right people with the right info.

Dr Colin: Yes.

Lisa: And we've just done that, haven't we? Brilliant. Thank you so much, Colin.

Dr Colin: Thank you.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Starting a business can be incredibly tricky. Statistics say about 80% or more of enterprises end up failing. If you’re a business owner or a founder, you know how there are so many factors to consider. Overcoming obstacles every step of the way is far from an easy feat. Moreover, starting a business requires a ton of research, but research alone won't guarantee success.

So what's the secret?

In this episode, Daryl Urbanski joins us to share the secret to building businesses and scaling them. You’ll learn about how his background taught him to be one of the leading business experts of this generation. He also discusses how to overcome obstacles and take your business to the next level.

If you want to learn how to be a successful entrepreneur, tune in to this episode!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within three years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Hear Daryl’s insights on raising children and lessons gained from martial arts. 2. Learn the secret to overcoming obstacles and building successful businesses. 3. Find out what you need to become an entrepreneur.

Resources * NMN Bio by Elena Seranova * Lifespan by David Sinclair * The Dream of Life by Alan Watts * Learn more about Daryl’s group coaching and pay-for-performance model! * The Best Business Podcast with Daryl Urbanski

Episode Highlights [7:02] How Daryl Started Out * Daryl was orphaned as a kid, and his stepdad was an entrepreneur. * His father showed Daryl that an entrepreneur was someone who is of service and respected by their community. * He wanted to be like that too, so he shovelled driveways and did a newspaper route for money at a young age. * Since Daryl was an orphan, he felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed. * At 17, he joined a company that was one of the early pioneers of early marketing, got interested in growing businesses, and the rest is history.

[10:45] Katimavik * Daryl was part of Katimavik, a Canadian social program in which ten children aged 17-21 live, travel and work across Canada.

  • Katimavik was a turning point in Daryl's life.

  • Daryl initially lived in a dangerous city. Katimavik was his way out.

  • It was a source of many experiences for Daryl.

[21:52] Youth Development * In raising his daughter, Daryl has a thing called neglect under supervision, where he tries to carefully neglect her in some ways to let her develop, grow and overcome obstacles. * He won’t stop her from falling, but he’ll try his best to catch her. * Growing up in a city is more about surviving in social dynamics than the social and environmental dynamics you find when you grow up on a farm. * Children would benefit from more physical activity in their lives. They'd develop differently, and would not feel the need to lash out violently. * Children need a better sense of responsibility and consequences — power and skill are earned.

[27:17] Lessons from Martial Arts * Martial arts teaches progression: your skills will develop over time, through with observation and training. * You learn about people and how your emotions impact decision-making. Martial arts isn’t just about training but also about recovery and rest. * The best way to get out of a bad situation is to prevent it from happening. * When he first learned martial arts, he thought it was about doing things to people. In reality, it’s about self-control and boundaries. * Martial arts also taught Daryl about overcoming obstacles and testing himself.

[39:04] The Secret to Building Businesses * There are many great places to start, and one of the hardest ones is getting something new going. * Always start with a market. Find a problem you’re willing to solve for people. * The purpose of a business is to locate a prospect and turn that into a customer who returns. * Figure out what problem you want to solve, then design it and do it in a scalable way. * The critical success factors for businesses are self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing, strategy, market intelligence, money management, business operating systems, business intelligence and government and economic factors.

[46:05] The Next Level * Ask yourself where the customers are and where they want to go. Can you take them there? * Fix what makes your customers unhappy, find out how to get busy and aim for consistency. * What helps your team grow is documentation and training. Create systems. How do you communicate your vision and keep the team productive?

[50:23] Getting Out of the Startup Gate * The hardest part is dealing with the imposter syndrome and self-doubt. * It’s all about managing stress and avoiding burnout. * Many people sacrifice their health to make money but end up spending all their money trying to get their health back. * It is better to collect money first and then develop a product.

[56:39] Daryl’s Current Core Focus * Now, Daryl is focused on group coaching. * For people who want more dedicated attention, he has a virtual VP of Marketing service. * He also has a pay for performance model, where people only have to pay if they make a profit.

[1:00:05] On Keywords and Google Trends * Keywords can tell you how many people are thinking about this particular thing. * Keywords are a powerful tool from a market intelligence standpoint. * From keywords, you learn what people are looking for, where they are and more. * Make your marketing about your customer.

[1:04:03] What You Need to Be an Entrepreneur * Be transparent. * People need to trust you for them to give you their money. * You’re going to need all eight success factors, but most importantly, answer the question: ‘What problem are you solving’?

7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode ‘Life is full of challenges and hurdles, and through overcoming those we develop our character’.

‘Pain often…makes you stronger and makes you more able to withstand—that’s what exercise is all about. You hurt yourself, you get stronger’.

‘It’s not just training, but it’s also how to recover and rest…Silence is part of music just as much as music is’.

‘Prevention is so much better than cure…the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Know it, recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens’.

‘It’s not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It’s about making the least mistakes’.

‘You don’t know what you’re capable of until you do it’.

‘Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles’.

About Daryl Daryl Urbanski, Founder, President of BestBusinessCoach.ca & Host of The Best Business Podcast is best known for his ability to create seven-figure, automated income streams from scratch. First as Senior Marketing Director for Praxis LLC, now Neurogym, he generated over USD 1.6 Million in under 6 months with a single marketing strategy. This became almost USD 7.5 Million in just under 3 years.

After repeating this success with multiple clients, he set on a mission to help create 200 NEW multi-millionaire business owners. How? They’ll do better when they know better.

Daryl has quickly climbed the entrepreneurial ladder, gaining respect from thousands of business owners worldwide. From author to speaker, marketer to coach, Daryl's multifaceted business approach sets him apart as one of the leading business experts of his generation.

Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends, so they overcome the obstacles in their lives or start their own successful businesses.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: You're listening to Pushing The Limits with your host, Lisa Tamati. Thank you once again for joining me. Today I have another exciting podcast with a man named Daryl Urbanski. Now, Daryl is a very well known business coach. So today, quite something different for you. This is all about what it takes to be an entrepreneur. Daryl is also a martial artist. So, he uses a lot of analogies from his sporting as we do in this podcast, from a sporting life and how that helps him in his career and also helping others build businesses. Now, he's helped over 1,000 businesses in his career in 50 different industries, and this guy knows how to grow and scale and overcome problems. So, he's a real expert in this area, and I really enjoyed our conversation.

Before we head over to Daryl in Vietnam, just wanted to remind you, if you're into finding out all about your genes, and what they have to say about you and how you can influence your genes to live your optimal lifestyle and be your best self, then make sure you check out what we do in our Epigenetics Program. So, this is all about understanding your genes and how they are expressing at the moment how the environment is influencing them, and then optimising everything, from your food to your exercise right through to your mindset, your social, your career, all aspects of life are covered in this really revolutionary programme.

Now, this programme is not something that we've put together; this has been put together by literally hundreds of scientists from 15 different science disciplines, all working together for over 20 years to bring this really next level cutting edge information about your genes and how you can find out how to optimise them. No longer do you need trial and error; you can work out what the best diet is, when the best time to eat is, exactly the right foods to eat right down to the level of, 'eat bok choy, don't eat spinach', that type of thing. And as—but it's so much more than just a food and exercise. It also looks at your health and anything that may be troubling you and future and how to deal with it. So, it's a really comprehensive programme, and I'd love you to check it out. You can visit us at lisatamati.com, hit the Work with Us button and you'll see our Epigenetics Program.

We've also got our online run coaching as normal, customised, personalised, run training system, where we make a plan specific to you and to your needs and your goals. And you get a session with me—a one on one session with me and a full video analysis of your running so that we can help you improve your style, your form, your efficiency, plus a full-on plan that includes all your strength training, your mobility workouts, and great community, of course. So make sure you check that out at runninghotcoaching.com.

And the last thing before we go over to the show, I have just started a new venture with Dr Elena Seranova, who is a molecular biologist from the UK, originally from Russia, and she is a expert in autophagy in stem cells, and she has made a supplement called NMN. Now, you may have heard of this nicotinamide mononucleotide. It's a big fancy word, I know. But you will be hearing more about this. It's been on the Joe Rogan show; it's been on Dr Rhonda Patrick show, some big names now talking all about this amazing longevity compound, anti-aging compound. Now, this is based on the work of Dr David Sinclair, who wrote the book, Lifespan: Why We Age and or How We Age and Why We Don't Need To. He is a Harvard Medical School researcher who has been studying longevity and anti-aging and is at the really the world's forefront of all the technologies to do with turning the clock back and who doesn't want to do that?

So I've teamed up with Dr Elena to import nicotinamide mononucleotide, our supplement from NMN bio into New Zealand and Australia. So if you are keen to get your hands on some because this was not available prior in New Zealand, I wanted a reputable company, a place that I could really know that the supplements that I'm getting is quality, that it's been lab-tested, that it was a scientist behind it, a lab behind it, and this is a real deal.

Now, I've been on this now for four months and so as my mom and my husband, and I've noticed massive changes in my life. Certainly, weight loss has been one of those things, that stubborn last couple of kilos that I've been fighting have gone without any muscle loss which has been really very interesting. It improves also cardiovascular health, your memory cognition, the speed of your thinking; all the things that start to decline as you age. And the reason this is happening is because we have declining levels of NAD, another big word, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And this NMN is a precursor for NAD.

So, lots of big words, lots of science. f you want to find more about that, you can head over to lisatamati.com, under the Shop button, you will find out all about our anti-aging supplement NMN, and we're about to launch a new website which will be nmnbio.nz, but that's not quite up there yet, but it probably is by the time this podcast comes out. So, check that one out to nmnbio.nz, bio, just B-I-O. If you want to stop—well, not completely stop aging, but if you want to slow the clock down and get the best information that's out there then make sure you read Dr David Sinclair's book, Lifespan it's an absolute game-changer. You'll be absolutely amazed at some of the stuff that's happening and what they consider my mononucleotide can already do. So check that out. Okay, without further ado over to the show with Daryl Urbanski.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. Today I have the lovely Daryl Urbanski with me who is sitting in Danang in Vietnam. And Daryl, this is gonna be a little bit of a different episode because usually I've got some health science-y thing or some are elite athlete doing—well, not to say that Daryl was not an elite athlete because he is into martial arts. But Daryl’s specialty and what he's come to share with you guys today is, he is a business expert and a marketing expert, and also a mindset expert, I would like to say. So Daryl, welcome to the show. Fantastic to have you.

Daryl Urbanski: Yes, it's an honour and pleasure to be here. We've had some good conversations, like minds, two birds of a feather. Just an honour and a pleasure to be here.

Lisa: Yes. Thank you so much, Daryl, for coming on today. So, Daryl and I cross pass by his lovely lady who organises half my life as far as the business side of things goes. So it's been a fantastic liaison. And—but Daryl was actually here on his own accord. And he's—so Daryl, I want you to give us a bit of a brief background, where have you come from, how did you end up in Vietnam? And what do you do for a living?

Daryl: Right, so I'm Canadian. So I'm from Canada, travelled all over the world, and I don't know if it's too short. So that's where I come from, I ended up in Vietnam. That's a long story. So I guess I'm Canadian. I'm in Vietnam. I help businesses or websites get customers and keep them to make more money. And that's really kind of it in a nutshell. It's been a long journey.

When I was a kid I was an orphan and my adopted family, actually my step adopted dad's the one that really raised me and his brother, my uncle. We would visit him every time we went to Toronto, and he was a bit of an entrepreneur. He also did some property management in that and every time we went to visit I almost felt like he was kind of like the Godfather. What I meant was people were always coming by with like, a gift basket or to thank him for something. So the impression that was put in my mind was like to be an entrepreneur is to be of service to the community, and to get people's respect and adoration for the good that you're bringing. And that was really like—I know, there's all sorts of different like your salesmen, and everyone's got different images. But that was when I was a young kid, I was like, ‘Wow, I want to be valued by my community, too’. So that really laid an impression on me at a young age.

Again, I didn't have the lemonade stand, I didn't mow lawn, but I did shovel driveways. We have so much snow in Canada in the wintertime. We would shovel driveways for money. I did have a newspaper route. And just at a young age, I just kind of felt, maybe because I was an orphan, but I felt the need to be self-sufficient and self-directed. Yes...

Lisa: How to be your own ship, really.

Daryl: Yes, sort of. Yes, I just—I also had issues like I did air cadets when I was a kid. There's some other kids, they were using their authority outside of cadets to try to, like, lord over people and stuff. And right away, I kind of learned at a young age, you kind of have to be careful—you can manage up, let's just put it that way. It's not just managing down, but you can manage up, and you can choose who's above you too, it's a two-way street. So I really laid an impression on the young age. And then when I was 17, I added a co-op in university with the company called marketme.ca and they were just one of the early pioneers of online marketing. Got me into the whole business growth avenue and that...

Lisa: The rest is history. Yes, now that's fabulous. So you from like, in my young years, like I was an entrepreneur from the get-go. I never fit in in anybody's corporate square box. Tried—I tried, I failed. Did you have that feeling like you were just outside of like, you just wanted to be in charge? Because you've been in business, basically, since you were 17 years old. And you've learned a heck of a lot on this massive business journey that you've been on. And you've helped—I know that you've helped over 1,000 businesses in 50 plus industries. And you've really grown into this role of helping businesses scale up and grow and develop your own systems around this.

But did you have an idea when you were that 17-year old that this was where you were going, and this is the direction? Or has it sort of meandered throughout time?

Daryl: No, I was—because I think I had a lot of, they say, like everything, I'm not maybe everything that I am and not knowing my biological roots, and that as a kid left me really to kind of be given the path of self-discovery, you could say from a young age. A lot of confusion, maybe anger in my younger years as well. But what really made the difference, at least in the earliest days, was that when I was 17, I ended up at Canadian government programme called Katimavik, which means ‘meeting places’. Inuit, which a lot of people call them Eskimos. But now we say the people of the North, the natives of the North they’re Inuit, which means snow people. Eskimo means meat-eater or flesh-eater. So they don't like being called Eskimos, you call them Inuit, but Katimavik is an Inuit word, and it means ‘meeting place’. And it's a government programme that's been on and off over the last 40-50 years in Canada.

And really what the—when I did it with the terms of the programme where it's a social programme sponsored by the government, 17 to 21-year-old youth, and then what they do is they put a group of 10 kids together, and the group of 10 kids is supposed to represent Canada. So, what that means is that they grab some from the east coast, the west coast from up north they try to make it, so it's representative. Like we had half guys have girls. French, we have three French speakers, right? Then the English speakers. We had an Inuit guy Kenny, who when he came, he actually didn't even speak English. We always knew when the phone was for Kenny because we didn't—it all be like, '[mumbles] Kenny this is for you, I don't know what's happening, either it's a bad connection, or this is someone who talks in their language'.

And that programme, what we did—when I did it was we spent three months in British Columbia, three months in Alberta, and three months in Quebec and in every province, there was a house. In that house, there is a project manager, project leader...

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: ...basically he was someone that would go to the house, and they were there, the whole duration of the programme. And this isn't a pitch for the programme, but I feel like it was—my life was really before and after.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: Because life skills I got from this...

Lisa: That's cool.

Daryl: ...so every place would have a project leader, and they would organise full-time work for all ten kids. And you were like a volunteer full-time worker, and in exchange, the government and I think this businesses may be paid a reduced hourly wage, I don't really know the details of it. But you worked for free, and in exchange, the government paid your grocery bills, they paid your rent and your travel expenses, and you got 20 bucks a week for like toothpaste and whatever else you wanted. And that was—it was a fantastic programme. I learned so much when I was in Alberta and British Columbia. I worked at a native band office, which is in Canada, we have a lot of native land, and that's land, like, we were the original immigrants. We took over the landmass, and then we gave the natives, ‘This is your land’, and so it's like a country within a country, and a band office is like their government office.

Lisa: Right.

Daryl: So, I actually worked at an Indian band office, Similkameen Valley band office and Iwe helped build sweat lodges. We did all sorts of stuff. I work there newsletter, helped communicate with the community. In Alberta, I was a seventh-grade teacher's assistant at a middle school, and a social worker assistant and I worked with a librarian as well. And then in Quebec, I was actually a mayor's assistant for three small town, 150 people. But you had a full-time job in each place, and then after work when you came home, the 10 of you were basically instantly signed up for any community events that were going on.

I remember in the small town of Karamea we built something like 20 out of the 25 of their Christmas floats for their Christmas parade. We did soup kitchens, music festivals, like, you name it, and there's just like, instantly—if there was something out of the community like the project leader would know about it and just drag us, and we just show up be like, 'Hey', and it was like ten pairs of hands. Like just we were coming just to make things happen.

So every three months, you had a full-time job, evenings and weekends, except for Sunday. You basically anything in the community, you were instantly signed up as a volunteer, and every two and for two weeks, every three month period, you would build it, you would stay with a local family for two weeks to like, see how they live. And that was really insightful because I didn't know any other family or how the family operated. But then I got to see inside the workings, like,

I remember this one family, I stayed with the three, the parents, the father was in finance, and he was always, like, his suit and his hair's so proper. He was very strict and very like this. And his kids on the other side, they had like mohawks, spike collars and black nails and eyes. And it was so funny because I felt like it was a yin yang. I felt like the kids were the exact opposite in the extreme of the parents, and just watching the dynamics of people. And also every week, a boy and a girl would stay home from their full-time jobs, and they would be the mum and dad in the house because we had a budget like for groceries and they would have to cook and clean. So that nine months experience when I was 17, I came out of that with more life experience than a lot of people and…

Lisa: What an incredible programme and how lucky...

Daryl: Yes.

Lisa: ...for you, like, because so many kids go off the rails, as they say at that point yet, and they get lost and to have the sort of a structure of development and experience must have been a real game-changer for you.

Daryl: Yeah, I mean, we moved around a bit when I was a kid, but we ended up settling in a city called Kingston, Ontario, which also happened to be the penitentiary capital of Canada. And so it was a unique community because you've got Queen's University, which is one of the top three universities of Canada. You've got the second-largest military base. It's almost one of the largest government employment cities. So you've got these high-income earners in the public sector, and then you've also got this great university. Some of the largest businesses out of Canada, actually, even in Kingston, like we've got one of the largest real estate investment trusts. There's a company that makes the shafts for all the pro golf clubs outside of Kingston. It's kind of weird, you got these unique massive spikes of success. But then because of the penitentiaries, a lot of families move to Kingston to be closer to the family. So then you have these areas where there's like when you get out of jail, you just settle in the town that you're in, and so it's weird, and I actually didn't think I was gonna see my 21st birthday.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: I was in high school, and I didn't—I had a friend that was found in a lake rolled in a carpet...

Lisa: Oh, gosh.

Daryl: ...and things like that. And I didn't think I was really gonna make it.

Lisa: So, really dangerous areas to be growing up as a youth.

Daryl: But then, I always say when you live in a city, you don't live in that city, you live in your bubble in that city. So my bubble was mixed. It was a mixed bag. I was in the middle—I grew up in a nice suburb, but through school and all that, I got involved with lots of different things. But in this group one day, they spoke at my high school, and they're talking about, 'Yo, we're getting to travel Canada for free'. Like, I was like, 'Hey, that sounds great. I need to get out of here. I don't see a future. I don't see a future', and I signed up and that was what I did. And then after that because of being involved and so I almost got kicked out.

Now, after the first two months, I was on my last warning, you get three warnings, and you get sent home. And every time you make them, you have to write a commitment to improve. And I was like, I just thought I think that project leader didn't like me, but I was like, on it by a hair. And it was so funny because I remember when I made the first three months, we moved to the second location, I was like, 'Wow even if I get kicked out now. Now I've learned everything that I could learn from this programme'. Three months, Alberta and I met all sorts of new people and new experiences. And I was like, 'Wow, I made it to six months. Now that I'm going to Quebec, now I've learned everything, I mean, so good'. And then the next three months, and then I finished it like, 'Wow, I made it to the end. Now I've learned...

Lisa: You're an expert.

Daryl: ...programme, right. But now here it is years and years later, and I met because they were like family, the other ten kids, right? And I still catch up with them every now and then, like I learned through, 'Why? You got a kid? You got three kids'?

Lisa: In other words, we all say we're no’s all the time. And then we're actually just at the beginning of our next journey. And it's all stepping stones to the next part of learning and stuff. But what a fantastic I wish we had a programme like that here because I mean, it must cost a lot to run and be really difficult to organise. But man, they could change lives, say for kids who are just lost and don't quite know what's the next step and how many of them are be.

Daryl: It's a fantastic programme. It's actually I don't think it's running in Canada anymore. Again, because of the cost that it gets government funding, it gets taken away. The Trudeau lineage is the one that started—they tend to be behind it. There was a big scandal in Canada 'we something charity' and it sounds like that they were going to give a billion dollars in one organisation that does something like that. But of course, it got into, like, where's money going and people arguing and is that a good use and I think nothing happened at it. But it's a shame because...

Lisa: It changes your life.

Daryl: Well, I think right now there's a ton of people, especially the younger kids who need a sense of responsibility. I think in some ways, I don't want to go on a big rant. But I think life is full of challenges and hurdles. And it's like, through overcoming those we develop our character. And some people, they just have such a cushy like...

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: .Things have become so politically correct. We've softened all the hard edges. I remember seeing in Toronto, they replaced a bunch of the kids playgrounds, because kids were falling and getting hurt.

Lisa: Yes, yes.

Daryl: Like, yes, but that's, like, you climb a tree, you fall, like, you don't...

Lisa: There's no consequence to anything anymore. And there's no, like, yes.

Daryl: It's like participation awards versus achievement awards. Like, we really, in some ways, become a society of participation awards versus achievement awards. And that's...

Lisa: I totally get it. I totally agree. Because I mean, I'm showing my age, but I grew up in the early 70s and stuff, and it was a rough ride. I'm lucky to be alive.

Daryl: Not everyone. Not everyone made it in adulthood. Yes.

Lisa: And, but you know what, I wouldn't change that for the world because I don't want to be wrapped up in cotton wool and bounce around like a bunch of marshmallows for the want of a better expression. I want to be able to climb trees and cycle. I had to laugh yesterday. We live in a little village that, sort of, no police around here. And you've got all sorts in, and it's a lovely village, it's a sort of a beachy resort-y place. But you get the kids, they got no helmets on, and the other ones are on scooters, and there's three of them hanging off it and other people with their youths, and the kids are on the back, which is all illegal, right?

Daryl: Right.

Lisa: And I'm not saying it is good, but I do have to smile because it reminds me of my childhood because that's where...

Daryl: A little bit recklessness, a little bit of foolishness. We don't want it, but the world has real limits.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: And especially as a parent, like I have a daughter now and it's like, I call it careful neglect. I try to carefully neglect her in some ways to force her to develop and grow.

Lisa: Beautiful.

Daryl: It's like neglect under supervision, that's probably the best way to do it. Because if I always do it for her, and then I'm not there like they say kids who grew up with a single parent tend to be more independent than kids that have two parents, although kids with two parents tend to do better overall. I want a blend of that. The kids with single parents, they are more independent because that's expected of them. There's not all—you can't...

Lisa: backup.

Daryl: It's not all the swaddling.

Lisa: Yes, no, I totally agree. And like, not even just for kids, but like dealing with my mum with her disability, I had to—and people would criticise me heavily, but I used—I make her do the hard stuff. Like, if she's struggling to get out of a chair at night and she's tired I don't get up to help her and not because I'm an asshole but because I need her to learn which muscle it is to push and people would, like when we're out in public that'd be standing there watching me watch her struggling and I'd get abuse sometimes. Like, ‘why aren't you helping’?

Daryl: Yes, yes.

Lisa: That's all I'm doing. I have to do it all the time with her because I'm teaching her new difficult tasks all the time. I'm having to put her through some painful regimes and training. And because I've been an athlete all my life, I understand that pain often, when in training, in difficult training sessions and stuff make you stronger, and make you more able to withstand. I mean, that's what exercise is all about: you hurt yourself, you get stronger, you hurt yourself, you get stronger. And with mum's training, it's very often like that. So okay, she's not a kid, but it's the same principle. I have to let her go.

Or winching out when she got her driver's license, and I would let her drive my car and go around town. I mean, I'm still panicking half the time, a nice—and for the start, I would shadow her, like from behind. She didn't know that I was following her way right through the town where she went so that she had that backup. But she didn't know she had that backup.

Daryl: As I actually had been saying that to Kathy, but my daughter, I'm like, I won't stop her from falling, but I'll do my best to always catch her.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: I'm not gonna try to stop because sometimes you're like, 'Your daughter and you try to pad the room'. And I'm like, 'I gave her a pair of scissors'. This is when she was really young, gave her scissors, 'Don't, she'll cut herself', and I'm like, 'Yes, and it'll be a valuable lesson'. 'You're right'. And I'm right here, and it'll be a vet ship. She'll learn a valuable lesson; I don't know if she doesn't, I feel like that's partially where we have things like all these school shootings and that. These kids aren't growing up on farms. They've never been kicked by a horse or a goat, or they've never hit themselves in the foot with an axe. So they playing these video games of extreme violence and sexual violence in the movies and they feel these emotions, like really common as a teenager. They have access to such powerful tools.

I'm Canadian, but in the States, they sell guns at Walmart and so you've got a kid that's angry, he's got no real sense of the reality of the world around him in terms of like, what happens if you fall out of a tree and break your ankle, that's so distant because they grew up in a city and it's just, it's more just surviving and social dynamics versus a social and environmental dynamic.

Lisa: I totally agree.

Daryl: And I go to school, and they lash out with guns, I really feel that if those kids grew up with more hard labour in their lives, more physical—even if they just had more physical training conditioning. You play hockey, you get hit too hard, like something like that, it would have less school shootings because they still feel the same emotions, but one, they'd have different outlets, and they would also kind of respect it better. It's like my jujitsu. You mentioned I do jujitsu.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: I feel like it's very—when you guys are new, you get a lot of these strong guys, and they try to tough on everybody. And they just, it's useless. And they get beaten up by the more skilled ones. So then when they develop skill, they're kind of like a 'Hey, like, I know what it's like to be the one getting beaten up'.

Lisa: Yes. Which is the correct method.

Daryl: Like, the power, the skill is earned. So, you treat it with better respect.

Lisa: Humility is always a good thing. And I think learning.. I've taken up skimboarding with you, and I don't bounce very well at 52. But it's really important that I do something that I'm really useless at.and I'm having to learn a new skill. And I sometimes ski myself because if I don't get the stage, that's when you start losing those skills. And I don't want to lose any of my abilities, and I've still got good reactions and stuff like that, so I want to keep them. So I constantly want to push myself outside that boundary.

So let's dive in a little bit to your martial arts, and then we'll get onto your business side of things because what you've done the years is just incredible. What sort of lessons have you learned—I mean, that was one—but what sort of lessons have you learned from doing Jiu Jitsu in the discipline that's required for this very tough sport?

Daryl: Yes, that's great. So yes, I did jujitsu for about six, seven, maybe eight years. I haven't trained, probably in a couple years now. I've been doing more kind of CrossFit and my own physical training, but I think the lessons are through any—you learn about progression over time. You learn things like the fundamentals are fundamental. You kind of learn the basics, but then you get bored with those, and you want to learn the fancy, advanced stuff, but then it's hard to apply it and get it to work. And then through just time and observation and training with the greatest you understand it really is about the fundamentals. Virtue is doing the common uncommonly well.

The fundamentals that we learned are the stuff that's actually working against the highest level black belts. The basics that you learn, you see that happen at the highest level World Championships in the biggest competitions, and the really great to the ones that can do the basics and just walk through everyone with them. Like, 'How are they able to do that so well'? Everybody knows what's happening. Everyone knows what to expect, but they can't stop it from happening anyhow.

Another lesson was it's a game of inches in the beginning because jujitsu is kind of like a submission wrestling, submission grappling.It's not so much punch and kick.It's more about pull, roll, and just and using things like gravity. So there's things about drilling how practise makes perfect. You learned the rule, like 10,000 hours that it's if I've been training for 200 hours, and you've been training 10 hours, generally speaking, I have a major advantage. If I've been training 2000 hours, you've been training 100 hours, typically speaking, I'm gonna just mop the floor with you because I've—there's nuance detail and you can almost endlessly drill into the fundamentals.

And then there's just the progress. You've talked about learning new skills. Last year, I learned how to handstand walk. I can now handstand walk about 20 feet, I'm gonna be 38 in a couple of months.

Lisa: Wow, I can't do that.

Daryl: Yes.

Lisa: I'm jealous.

Daryl: It’s specifically for the skill development, for the neurological developments, to like to balance in a totally different way and physical development. So I mean, you just see you learn about people, you learn about how your emotions impact your decision making in certain respects. You learn about how it's not just training, but it's also how to recover and rest. And we talked about this I think before I interviewed you for my podcast, like, silence is part of music just as much as music is, the difference is it's intentional.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: Silences, intention. So it's about doing things with intent. Taking a concept like I want to learn and get good at this and breaking into pieces. And I was talking about this to my friend yesterday. Actually, I forget how it came up. But he's talking about something, and work, and the situation, and how to avoid, and I remember I was training and I was fortunate to do some training with Rickson Gracie in my early parts of my training career, legendary fighter guy.

And I remember I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. Triangle choke is a type of choke. And I kept getting caught in these triangle chokes. I remember asking, like, 'How do I get out of it'? He says, 'Well, don't let them put you into it'. I'm like, 'Yes, I know. But I already got into it. Now what do I do'? he's like, 'Don't let them put you into it'. And I just wanted—I wanted the cure, and I was like, 'Yes, but I want it' and there are, there's some things you can do. But the real answer is...

Lisa: Prevention

Daryl: ...prevention is so much better than cure. Like, well it's good...

Lisa: Great principle.

Daryl: You're in it, like, you gotta panic, you got two or three options, you got to panic, you're gonna spend a lot of energy, you're gonna flail and struggle, it's gonna be close. We can talk about how to do it. But really, the best solution is, don't let them do it to you in the first place. Note and recognise the signs and protect yourself before it happens.

Lisa: That is a great law for the whole of the health paradigm that I live under.

Daryl: Yes. How do I deal with heart problems?

Lisa: Prevention, prevention.

Daryl: Prevention. Yes, exactly. And you know proactivity.

Lisa: Yes, occasionally,you will still get caught out and you will still and then you want to know those tricks. But in the first line, let's learn prevention and then we'll look at how do we get out of this mess?

Daryl: And another really—which kind of ties in and then we can if you want to move on, move on. But this one, I think is also really, really, really important. When I first learned martial arts, I always thought it was about doing things to other people, I'm going to do this too, or I'm going to use your leverage against you. I'm gonna do this to the world. What I've really realised is two things. One, it's not even necessarily about doing things. It's about two things it's about not doing things externally, it's about self-control. It's about boundaries.

So we just talked about 'Don't let him put you into it'. That means that I have to have boundaries around things. Will I let him grab me here? Well I’ll not allow that. Well, I let him grab me there. And I'll be like, 'Okay, whatever. And I'm going to try to do some'. So again, when people start and forgive me, I don't want to go on a huge long rant on this. But when you start, I'm going to do this to you, going to do that to you and I'm trying to do this...

Lisa: You got to be kidding.

Daryl: ...and so I don't even care what you're doing to me. When you get—later, it's like what do I accept? What are my boundaries?

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: What situations do I let myself enter into? And that was—and then the other thing is that a lot of times it's not about what you do. It's not even about winning. It's about who makes the fewest mistakes.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: It's really—it's not even about being the best, the smartest, the brightest. It's about making the least mistakes.

Lisa: Wow...

Daryl: In this situation, how many doors do I open for my opponent?

Lisa: I totally...

Daryl: These things are great, right?

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes.

Daryl: There’s just me posing on the world and more about controlling myself.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: And am I allowing myself to be manipulated this way? Am I allowing myself to be grabbed here? Am I allowing his energy to mess with my mindset?

Lisa: Wow, that is gold.

Daryl: In a tournament, I've seen them lose the match before it even begins. Get you two guys step up, and the rest get in there, and they like their eyeballing on each other.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: You see one guy like and he's just kind of coward. Like he lost before we even get started. So...

Lisa: I haven’t seen that in ultramarathons are—another sporting analogy, but I've seen when people start bargaining with themselves and you do during an ultra. You start saying, 'Well, if I just get to there, I'll be happy with my results’. Or if you start to negotiate with yourself as how far you can get. And when I'm when I see people going, 'Well, I've at least done more than I've ever done before and therefore it's a success'. And when I start to hear talk like that, I know we're in the battle, like we are in the battle. And if they don't change the mindset, they're not going to because they're no longer in that, 'I'm gonna do this, come hell or high water there in the' Well, it's okay to fail and it is okay to fail. But in the battle, you don't want to be in that mindset. You want to be in that mindset, like, 'I'm going for this and I'm giving it everything I have.’

When you start to negotiate with yourself where ‘It would be okay if I got to that point, and therefore this is the longest I've ever run and therefore that's still a success'. When you start doing that type of bargaining with yourself, you're in deep shit basically because you've got to tune your psychology around too because otherwise, you're going to give yourself a way out.

I remember when I was running in the 220k race in the Himalayas that extreme altitude and I had a point where I just completely broke after going up the second path, and it was about—I'd been out there for 40 plus hours in a massive snowstorm. I had hypothermia. I had altitude sickness, asthma. I was just completely good enough reasons to be pulling out. And one of my guys came back to me, and I said, 'I think it's only two kilometres to the top of the mountain because you're calculating in your head'. And he came back and said, 'No, it's six kilometres to go'. And that just completely broke my mentality because six kilometres, I was going out 3k an hour, it was two hours of hell, and I couldn't, and it broke me. And I just fell into a heap and started bawling my eyes out, and everybody was giving me permission to give up. They were like, huddling around, 'You're amazing. We're so proud of you and you did everything you could', and then there was one guy. And he came over, and he shocked me, and he wasn't smiling, and he wasn't patting me on the back, and he was like, ‘Get the F up now’.

Daryl: You're so close.

Lisa: ‘You're so close, you're not failing, and I'm not letting you fail and get your ass up off the ground. And I'm going to stay here with you. And I'm going to walk you up top of that mountain’. And that was key because it got me over that psychological break—I broke, but he picked me up, and he got me back on my feet. And I followed his instructions. I just did what he told me to do, put one foot in front of the other, and he got me over that hump, literally. And it's this type of stuff that you learn through sports; it's just so valuable.

Daryl: It's just overcoming obstacles and just testing yourself. You don't know what you're capable of until you do it. You can spend all day reading a book about tennis, but until you're out there actually playing it. And there's learning you have to learn, you can learn through reading through lecture through conversation, personal experiences, and through other people's experiences and that's...

Lisa: That's what this is about.

Daryl: Yes, I mean Alan Watts has this great video called The Dream of Life. Imagine if every night you went to sleep, you could dream, however many years of life that you wished and because it's your dream, you can make them as wonderful as you want it. And so for the first—let's say you're dreaming 100 years of life every night. And maybe you do this for a couple of years, every night for a few years, you're dreaming 100 years of life. And all these lives that you're living, they're all the most filled with all the pleasures and all the wonderful things that you could possibly want. And what do you think would happen? And over time, you would kind of get bored, and you would want some risk and some adversity. And then eventually, you would want to be able to dream and go to sleep, and not know the outcome. ‘I want to go to sleep. I want to have this adventure, but I don't want to know the outcome’.

And that's kind of like that's almost like life. And if you could dream a lifetime every night in your—in a life of eighty years, you could possibly dream the life you're living right now. And that's the whole thing of evolution. Evolution is about growth and challenge and overcoming obstacles and...

Lisa: Yes, obstacles like phone calls coming in the middle of your podcast.

Daryl: But, we got—everyone’s with me.

Lisa: I think people listening to my podcasts are quite used to interruption. You just cannot stop the world from functioning half the time like somebody's phone is somewhere.

Daryl: Murphy's Law, you just gotta keep on recording. If you wait for perfection, it's never gonna happen.

Lisa: Exactly. You could panic now and start editing for Africa or another way, you could just get it out there and apologise for what happened, which we'll do. So, Daryl, I want to move now because I think there was absolutely brilliant and really insightful.

I want to move into the business side of things. And you've had a really successful business. You've taken lots of businesses to the million-dollar in a plus businesses from scratch, you've done that over and over again. You've helped people scale up and develop these systems and mine the data and work out all this complicated world of online, which is I'd struggle with daily so I want to know from you, how the heck do you do this? And what are some of your greatest secrets from building businesses over a long period of time now?

Daryl: That's a great question. There's a lot of different places to start; I think one of the hardest places and where I've had the most failure myself is getting something new going because well, one, it's just not my superpower. But if you've got someone that's got a proven concept, and that's really how in the beginning, I should look it up.

But I got my seven-step rollout system. It's like you always start with a market first. So that means you always have to start with a need and or want so because you can't—the idea of selling ice to Eskimos. It's not about doing mental gymnastics and pushing something on someone that they don't want. That might happen in the world. There might be people that invest a lot of time, energy and resources in that but I have no interest. It's really tough to be like I'm gonna generate this demand. It's not there. The demand already exists. People already want to feel beautiful, people already want to be entertained, people already want to travel and to explore the world. So these needs and wants and that already exists. The idea is that you want to stand in front of it. The demand and want is already there and it's constantly evolving. And every time someone a business comes out, and you create a new product or service to fix a problem there'll be a new problem.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: Because now, like before the internet, the issue was how are we going to have these conversations like we can? You’re New Zealand, I'm in Vietnam, how will we do this? Well, now Zoom is created. These companies created tool, and they created tool. And now here's Zoom, but then what's the next issue? And then what's the next problem? So problems are markets, not demographics.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Daryl: Not demographics, the problem is a market. This is the problem that we solve for people. Once you've got that a lot of it—for me, it's like different ways that you can go, but the purpose of business is to locate a prospect, turn that prospect into a customer and then make a customer your friend.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: It's really a big part of it. It's tough to have a business survive. There are businesses that survive off one-time sales, but the vast majority of businesses need recurring business, recurring freight, ongoing relationships. And a lot of businesses aren't thinking about how to do that. And so, your business is a service to the world. And so the first thing you have to figure out on a small scale, ‘What problem do I solve’? And when you solve a problem, you kind of need to create, I call it a black box. This black box maybe is a mystery to the outside world; we can use a dentist's office people come in crying and in pain on one side, they go through the black box, which is a series of checklists, checklists for this, checklist for that, checklist for next thing, okay, check that we did this, this, this, this is this, boom, they leave smiling and happy on the other side. So that's the black box. That's the problem-solving box.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: The problem-solving box, all the company is one group of people solving a problem for another group of people via a product or service.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: Before that problem is, and you've got it, now you need to design it. Here's some people solve problems really well, but they don't do it in a way that's scalable. So the rule of 10,000. Now I know how to solve the problem. Now I know THE kind of the type of people having that problem. How do I solve 10,000 of these problems for people, think, if I had to bake a pie if I'm trying to bake one pie versus bake 10,000 pies...

Lisa: It's going to be more efficient.

Daryl: there's a different mindset that you got like, I need a bigger kitchen, I got to do that. You've got like planning in batches, and food storage, it changes the nature of things. And then you got to kind of go out and find those people and that's like a marketing function.

So there's—actually, I can share this. So last year, I actually spent like $40,000 hiring all these research teams to help get down to what are the critical success factors for small and medium-sized businesses?

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: We came up with eight, there's actually nine, but the ninth one is government and economic factors. And it's not realistic that a person is going to influence.

Lisa: No.

Daryl: Not one person.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: No, it's not realistic. So the ones that we can influence is things like self-efficacy, which means your ability to be effective with your time, your energy, just yourself and through others. So it's like leadership is part of that, right? Your time management is part of that like mindset might be part of that. But self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing strategy, market intelligence. So these are different market intelligence is understanding the needs, wants desires, problems of the people of the marketplace, and the competitors, the available options.

So it's market intelligence is like, what's going on out there? And then marketing strategy is how am I going to get my message across. Then you have sales skills and strategies, sales strategy. And then you have money management. You have business operating systems, which is—it could be technology, it could be simple checklists, it could be meeting rhythms, it could be a hiring process, that's the operating systems.

And then you've got business intelligence, and business intelligence is like the awareness of different things. So for example, like you are working with my partner, Kathy. She's helping you with your podcasts, you're getting greater awareness on how many downloads are we getting and how many people are sharing the downloads and how many people are listening and then coming my way—that's all business intelligence stuff.

Daryl: It's the idea of not just doing activities, but to actually measure… Right. But it needs to be aware. It’s like wearing a heart rate monitor, right? Like how's my—that's an intelligence system. How's my heart rate doing? How's my heart rate variability?

Lisa: Yes. I do all of that.

Daryl: What's my sleep pattern?

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: Am I waking up twenty nights? That's like business intelligence. Those eight factors really are the critical make or break focus points for business.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: And anything that you would do for a business should back into one of those. So, team building activity. Well, that's kind of self-efficacy, maybe operating systems, it depends. You're going to do a podcast, well, that's a marketing strategy, right? And then the strategic planning is the plan strategically of how you're going to pull the strings together. And like, we know how you plan you develop, how you plan to meet people, is there a thought process and from all this stuff?

Lisa: And the hard thing is for the young entrepreneurial. I know we have a lot of people who, in business, starting businesses, or in developed businesses and wanting to scale further. You’re wearing so many hats at the beginning, like you're in charge of all of those departments if you like, and that is the very hard thing at the beginning. Once you get a team around you like we're at a stage now where we have small teams that are helping us with different aspects of what we do, and we're trying to outsource the stuff we're not good at. It's not our specialty, because we don't want to waste... But at the beginning, you have to do it all. And so you're just constantly wearing these multitasking hats and not being very efficient.

Daryl: Right.

Lisa: How do people get to that next rung on the ladder? And this is something that where we've been backwards and forwards going on for a long time. How do you get to the next stage? And how do you make an effective team? And how do you outsource certain things, but not the other things? And it's getting to that next level, isn't it?

Daryl: Yes.

Lisa: And at the beginning, you just forbought everything.

Daryl: If you've been doing a lot of activity, and you're not really sure what's working, a simple way to think about this is forget Uber and Grab and these other...

Lisa: Yes, this huge...

Daryl: Originally, if you were a cab driver, you would have a car, and your idea first figure out where are the people who need to be driven places and then pay money to do it. Maybe it's taking kids to school, maybe it's picking people up at the train station, or the bus station or the airport, maybe it's doctor's office appointments, right? Like every week for whatever.

But first, if you were the taxi driver, first, you'd have to figure out, how do I keep my schedule full every day? How do I keep myself busy every day? And so first, it's where are the customers? And where do they want to go? Right? Where are the customers and where they want to go? Can I take them there? You get paid in size over the relationship, and the problem you solve. What that means is if I want to get across town, but I have all day to do it, I can walk, right? But if I'm in a hurry, if my child is sick, and they're bleeding, and I got to get in the hospital in half the time, that's a bigger problem. I'll pay whatever, right? I can rent a car, I could bike, right? If I don't want to rent a car, I could pay more to have someone, you get what I'm saying?

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: I could pay someone to drive me. So there's a scale of problems. So first, like, where are the customers? What do they need? Where do they want to go? And then how do you get yourself busy? Now that you're busy what's going to happen is now you have to do is you have to train someone and had it on quality control. How do I deliver this consistently? What is my doing? Because when you do something for someone, why—what's making people really happy? What's making them not happy? Right? How do I make sure I have a consistent good experience for people? Good.

Now, how do I help more people? And then if you're the cab driver, you might have to take a pay cut? Because at some point, you might have to bring someone in and have them drive the car for half the day.

Lisa: So you can focus on the business. Yes, yes.

Daryl: You can focus on getting another car and getting that. And so there's this weird period where it's like, 'Hey, I'm busy full time, but I can't be any busier'. So I can charge more money, or I'm going to hire someone, give them some of the work.

Lisa: Yes. Big portion of the money.

Daryl: Right. They're gonna take a pint of the money. And now I'm going to get the second part going. And that's actually how Kathy got started. So Kathy is working with you. And one of the beginning she had some clients online, and I was like, 'What do you like doing the most? What's the one thing that you think you can do a lot of? And she really enjoys the writing component', and so we got her really busy. And then she hired someone, and then right? And then she was busy, and they're busy, she hired another person. And she had another person on now she had like a team of six, she's got some, like 26 people now. But in the beginning, she had like four or five, six, 'Hey, now you need a manager'. 'Okay, well, now I need a manager', okay, and that's your manager for the team and the next problem and building that out. And that's a really natural way to grow.

And part of what helps you do that is documentation and training, an edge explained, demonstrate, guide, and power. First, explain how you do it. Let me demonstrate it for you. So you can see it done. And then let me guide you in doing it with you. And then I'm going to empower you to do it on your own, make some mistakes and learn from them, and just repeat that process.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: So it's an edge thing. And that's creating documentations and systems. But then you've got to actually keep—now you're getting into a different level. How do you communicate a vision? How do you keep a team productive? How do you monitor progress? How do you—because we're talking about self-efficacy, right? If you hire someone that could be brilliant, but if they don't get the work done, and now you're getting into people skills, and how do I communicate? And how do I help them tap into their own internal motivation? So they're not just showing up, clicking on the paycheck, and just clocking out, going home just on their phone all day. So these are different tiers of problems that people fall into. So I don't know if I read a whole of...

Lisa: No, these are perfect, Daryl, and it does highlights here. There's always the next level.

Daryl: Crazy amounts of entrepreneurship.

Lisa: No, but, like getting out of the startup gates is the hardest part and you dealing also with self-doubt and imposter syndrome often, and can I do this? And people telling you you can’t. Your family members or friends going, 'What the hell are you doing? And you've tucked in your regular job for this'? And you know, that 80% or more of businesses fail. I can't remember what the statistics were, but they're pretty horrific. And you're wearing all these hats. And what you then see is a lot of people starting to burn out. And that's really like part of what we do is all about managing stress and not burning out and how’s the basics of health because you need to do all that in order to be successful because there's no use having millions of dollars in the bank, but you are dead because that isn't going to help anybody.

Daryl: I've seen that. I've seen people sacrifice—I see people make money and keep their health at the same time. But I've also seen a lot of people sacrifice their health to make money and then end up spending all that money trying to get their health back.

Lisa: To get their health back. And I must admit like I've—not for the—just for the business but saying in rehabilitating mum cost me my health. I ended up nose diving because you're working 18 hour-days sometimes and you just go and helpful either trying to make the mortgage payments at the same time by the hyperbaric chambers, or the whatever she needs and trying to rehabilitate, and running all these juggling balls that we all have in various combinations. And you can't work yourself into the absolute—into the grave if you're not careful. And that's why health and resilience and stress reduction and stuff is what we do.

Daryl: Yes, it's always best to have people—one of the biggest—and I've done this before, I've done this a couple of times, unfortunately. Better to collect money first and then develop a product. What I mean is like in my hometown, they're opening up a gym, and they were building, they bought this building, they were kind of doing rentals on the inside, and they set up a trailer outside. And they were actively marketing and were signing up people for the gym that was not yet finished being built...

Lisa: Brilliant

Daryl: ...so they're not yet open. And what happened was at some point, they just closed down the whole operation and left. And what it was is they had a pre-launch goal for themselves. ‘We need to generate this many new members in order to breakeven, or we stop’. And that's a really good thing, and you don't, it's like if you just get pre-orders, Elon Musk did this with, I think, the model three. He made $100 million having people prepay $1,000 on a car. He hadn’t built the factory to make it.

Lisa: Wow. But then it’s Elon Musk.

Daryl: Well, no, but, yes, okay, but I mean...

Lisa: Reputation.

Daryl: In any way you shape or form it because he built a prototype so he had something he could show people, and they could see and they could—he could articulate what his vision was.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: And then he said, 'Hey, if you want to get one and be one of the first you have to make a non refundable $1,000 deposit' and he created $100 million, which is proof of concept.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: Use that $100 million to build a factory and then charge them the rest of the money for the car.

Lisa: Brilliant.

Daryl: And that is of demand. And this is where people go wrong. For example, I like baking pies, my hobby is baking pies. I like baking pies. People praise me all the time for my pies. Man, it would be so great if the whole city just praised me for being such a great pie maker. I'm going to build this business for me and how great my pies are. I'm going to plan this logo, and I'm going to plan the layout. I'm going to plan the menu, and all this stuff. And then I make all these pies. And then what I do is I tell all my friends about my pie shop, and they go, 'Wow, Daryl, your brand color is so nice, and wow what a nice logo and what a nice menu', my friends come in and make an obligatory purchase.

Lisa: Yes.

Daryl: Because they're my friend, but that doesn't last. And then I go through the seesaw where they buy the purchase. They make a purchase. So now I stopped telling people about my pie shop because I'm busy making the pies. But while I'm making the pies, there's no one getting people to come.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: I deliver those pies, but they're just my friends. They're buying out of social, like social contract, you're my friend, not because it's something they need. And this business is to fulfill my ego as a business owner, it's not to provide a service to the community.

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: Because to provide a service to the community, I might like making pies, but I need to figure out who needs pies and I might find that there's some office buildings where these people are so busy, they don't have time to cook they're always on the go. And so I would make pies to go, and I would make a custom for their dietary nutrition perhaps. And now it's a symbiotic relationship. It's not a self-serving ego-driven business. It's fulfilling a need. That's something—that's why the market intelligence part is so big of those eight because it's how—you might not have everything else in line, but if you're trying to sell gourmet food to people as they leave in all you can eat buffet...

Lisa: And I've done this before I've made a course because I think it's what people want, and then worked out later on that, no, that's not quite what they wanted. They wanted something slightly different. So, we all always do now like questionnaires and polls, and ‘what is it that you need’? And how do you want this?

Daryl: It’s in the phase.

Lisa: Yes. And then start—yes because you can think you know what your customer wants and needs, but they will tell you better what they actually want and need. And so always listening to your customers and always seeing what direction are they going in and what do they need next is another good thing. So okay, I've done this part of the thing, but can you actually add on something else another service that will be a benefit to them, that you can provide to them, and create what you call the value ladder so that you have more things ready to go.

And all this is really, really complicated, but you've done this with lots and lots of people and lots of businesses and scaled them up. So, if anybody wants to like—coming to wrapping up the session now, Daryl, if somebody wanted to work with you as a business coach, where do they find you? And what sort of work do you do nowadays? What is your sort of core focus?

Daryl: Yes, good question. So, they go to bestbusinesscoach.ca, that'll redirect them to my main site, they can go check me out there. They can look up Daryl Urbanski on all the social media platforms.

Lisa: Yes, you’re pretty famous.

Daryl: Well, we're all famous now. We all have social platforms, so. But I am king in my own universe, that's true. I mean, that's it. And right now, really, what I'm focused on is group coaching. So when I had my martial arts school, I used to love being a part of an environment where people came to get better every day. No one goes to the gym, and they're like, ‘I want to break a leg today’, literally, ‘I want to get sick today’. They come and, ‘I want to get better, I want to fix this part of my jiu jitsu game’, or ‘I want to do squats because I want my butt to be’, whatever it is. But the idea of improving and improvement.

So I'm really focused on my group coaching mastermind, where I'm putting groups of people like that together. So it's a group coaching. And then for people that want more dedicated attention, I have a virtual VP of Marketing Service, where it's like, I can work with them or their team and be present in the meetings, it's a consultation, or I'm a consultant. I'm not necessarily executing or implementing.

So there's a good coaching programme, there's a virtual VP of Marketing. But then I also have a pay for performance model, which is with select people where it's a good fit, win-win-win. There might be an upfront payment just for some setup fees, $1,000, or two, or whatever, depending on the scope of the project. But really, they're only going to pay if they profit because I think that in the B2B space if you want to be a doctor and engineer and architect, you have to pass exams that demonstrate knowledge and capacity. But in the B2B space, anybody can say they're a life coach, anyone can say they're a business coach, anyone can say they're a marketing agency. There's no real way to separate them.

And you can get a certification. But there's not really any real scientific validation of these certification programmes. I just—these companies just create them, and you pay them a thousand bucks and go do a weekend boot camp. And now you're a business coach, and someone should bet their future, their life, their ability to pay medical bills and put their kids in school, on your weekend or dayment of so. I, like, I got away from providing marketing services and being paid a retainer. And I don't think there's anything wrong with people that do that if they provide... Well, I look for more for partnerships. I'm getting away from clients and more towards partnerships. We're like, ‘Man, I know some things. I've done some stuff, looking for people I can partner with, and it's a win-win’. And yes, so they just sort of…

Lisa: If I’m not successful, you're not successful.

Daryl: Right.

Lisa: So if you don't make it, you don't make it, that's the end of the partnership and move on to the next thing. Yes. And I think that's a great model. I think that well it works, it's really good.

Well, I think we've bloody covered a whole lot of areas there. Everywhere from use development through to martial arts through to Jiu-jitsu, and building businesses and overcoming obstacles. So it's been a real fascinating ride with you. I'm really stoked to meet you and Kathy. I think you're brilliant people. You're good people.

And I just want to give a plug to your podcast as well. Can you tell everyone where to find you? So you've mentioned your website, which we'll put it obviously in the show notes and stuff, but where can they find you on the podcast?

Daryl: Yes, just Google, The Best Business Podcast with Daryl Urbanski. It's not to be egocentric. It's just when I did the keyword research when I launched my podcasts, the most searched word term was best business podcast, so I was like that's gonna be my name.

Lisa: I didn’t do that, I wouldn have known to look for an SEO keyword search back in the day. I just went, 'Oh I'm all about pushing the limits, therefore I'm Pushing the Limits'.

Daryl: Keywords are fantastic, sorry to interrupt. Keywords are fantastic because in the privacy of my own home while I'm alone, I go into Google and I type in what are my actual thoughts. So keywords can actually be a sign of like mindshare. How many people are thinking this on what sort of ongoing basis. So if you check your keyword search volume, and not all businesses have to use keywords, but it's great from a research and market intelligence point.

I actually call the Google A to Z. A lot can be learned just going to Google and if you're a chiropractor, put in ‘chiropractor space A’ and look at what shows up. And then chiropractor space B, chiropractor space C, and just take note because these are suggested things is; Google's going, this is what people are looking for.

And if you just take an inventory of A to Z around your keyword and what you do, you can learn a lot about where people are, what they're looking for, the results that they want, you go to Google Trends, you put your keyword in there, you can see the trends over years of the search volume. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to relate to sales. But if there's 100,000 people that are interested in the topic, you might have greater success, instead if there's only a thousand. It just depends on your ability to reach and get a lot of…

Lisa: Google and all of that.

Daryl: Keywords are great. The internet is such a powerful tool. You can go on Amazon and look at other products and read the reviews. And you can go on Reddit, put your keyword in Reddit, you can see what people are saying in the forums, you can learn their language, their pain points, their wants and needs. There's a ton of—it's just the world's become so transparent, so well connected.

Lisa: I just learned half a dozen things that I didn't know, so…

Daryl: Yes. It's so great. It can just really make a difference, where are the customers? What do they want? What problem do I solve for them? And then how do you build a relationship? How do you get them to raise their hand? That's typically the first step.

Who here, who would beat you next? I call it the food court test. So, what I mean is a lot of companies—so think of a mall food court. Let's say I want to sell ice cream. So I could go into the food court, and I could get up on a table, and I could go, 'Baskin Robbins' and look around. A lot of people be like, 'What'? and the people who know me might come over and be like, 'Daryl, what are you doing on the table, man? How are you doing'? Like, 'What's going on? Come on down, how you doing? What's going on'? and be like, ‘Hey, what's going on? I got this nougat ice cream from Baskin', okay, whatever, right? That's one type of marketing. And that's about me, my company, my logo, Baskin Robbins. That doesn't mean anything to anybody. But if you instantly got on a table at a busy food court and I went free ice cream. Totally different things. People come to you, like, what free ice cream? ‘Yes, here we have eight flavours. You can get a free sample if you like. And then it's $3 for a tub of ice cream for $5 for two, which flavour would you like to try first’?

Lisa: Brilliant.

Daryl: Totally different analogy. Totally different situation. Totally different, right?

Lisa: Yep.

Daryl: And the flavours that I would make. I can make the flavours that I want. I could be like, 'Ooh, Cheez Whiz and pickles or a bubble—or like nuts and bubblegum' together at last, right? Like, but that's for me, and you can experiment with that. Or I could just go on to Google and go Ice cream, ice cream A, ice cream B, ice cream C, and be like, what are the top—go to Google Trends. What are the top ice cream flavours?

Lisa: Wow.

Daryl: Hey, these ice creams are the top. Now I'm delivering something the world wants and needs and is looking for.

Lisa: It was such a good analogy, Daryl. It's really good. I'm gonna go on to Google Trends and see. This just so—I think the hard thing for entrepreneurs is that there is so many things you need to be good at, that you don't even know where to start half the time. Is it product development is it...?

Daryl: It fails because people put their money down. And it looks—you can even go—look, you just be transparent. Look, I don't even have the product ready yet. This is what I'm thinking of doing. Would you be willing to put a percentage down to save your spot? Would you be willing to get a discounted deal if I give you...?

People like they say the two hardest things to get people to do with you is have sex and give you money. They require the highest level of faith and trust in a relationship. And we all know people who maybe it's not so hard. If I just walked into a stranger on the street and asked him for money, it's going to be they're going to react as if I asked them to just have sex with me like, 'Who are you? I don't know what? I'm just gonna give you my money'. It's gonna be the same sort of reaction. So you have to build that trust. And but you also need to say, 'Hey, if I'm going to build this amazing product. Are you in or not’? like what's going on?

And then after that, it's really those eight categories: self-efficacy, strategic planning, marketing strategy, market intelligence, sales strategy and skills, money management, operating systems of the business and then business intelligence. And again, you need all of them. You need all of them. Those are the eight areas, but the number one thing is, ‘what problem am I solving? And are people proving the demand is there with their wallets’?

Lisa: And it's not just my—what I want for my ego, but what is actually required out there in the world. And I think that's a really—even that answering that first question was a biggie. That pie analogy was a good one.

Hey, Daryl, look, I've taken up enough of your time today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. I highly recommend everyone go and check out The Best Business Podcast and then hop over onto Best Business—what was it .ca?

Daryl: bestbusinesscoach.ca

Lisa: bestbusinesscoach.ca, go and see Daryl over there. Thanks very much, Daryl.

Daryl: Goodbye, everyone.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Aging is a gradual process of cell deterioration, but while it is a natural process, there are ways to hack its biological mechanisms. Certain supplements paired with sirtuin enzymes can lead to better well-being and suppress the effects of aging.

In this episode, Dr Elena Seranova talks about the role of sirtuins in maintaining cell health. She also discusses how several supplements, including NMN and resveratrol, work to enhance the beneficial action of sirtuin.

Listen to this episode to learn how to promote longevity and overall health.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Find out how sirtuins play essential roles in promoting longevity. 2. Learn how NAD influences sirtuin activity and how several compounds can increase NAD levels in the body. 3. Discover the best methods for taking resveratrol supplements.

Resources * Dr Elena's study on stem cell models of neurodegeneration for studying autophagy * Study on NAD supplementation by Dr Elena's collaborator * Research paper on the benefits of trehalose by Lisa's supervisor

Episode Highlights [03:24] Elena's Background * Originally a psychologist, Elena ventured into neuroscience through her work on a neurofeedback device for patients with psychological and neurological diseases. * She eventually pursued a master's degree in translational neuroscience and joined a biotech startup. * She continued her studies through a PhD focusing on the molecular pathways of autophagy.

[09:41] Sirtuins and Gene Expression * Sirtuins are enzymes arising from various genes found across multiple species. They play crucial roles in evolution. * Sirtuins assist in epigenetic regulation, where different cells have different active genes. * Events such as taking a sauna or engaging in exercise change the environment of your cells. Evoking changes in gene expression helps you adapt to these conditions.

[19:09] Longevity Impacts of Sirtuins * Sirtuin 1 is heavily involved in repairing DNA damage, while sirtuin 3 contributes towards mitochondrial health. * The enzymes coming from both sirtuin genes require the molecule NAD for proper function. * With insufficient NAD, sirtuin enzymes might be unable to fix DNA and mitochondrial damage sufficiently.

[25:59] NAD Boosters * NR and NMN are two promising energy booster supplements that might boost NAD+ levels. * NMN shows higher bioavailability and more positive effects on aging mice. * Elena herself experienced improved energy levels when she started taking NMN supplements during her PhD years.

[37:05] Resveratrol and Sirtuins * Resveratrol activates sirtuins, allowing them to function. * It works well with NMN — resveratrol handles activation, while NMN provides energy. * To increase the bioavailability of resveratrol, consume the supplement with dairy products or food items with oil.

[40:01] Apigenin, Sirtuins and NADases * Several enzymes compete with sirtuins for NAD. These NADases mean that sirtuins cannot function without a large NAD supply. * Apigenin, which is present in parsley, blocks a certain NADase and leads to increased NAD levels.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘We'll be having different sets of genes being activated, and this will be in response to different external stimuli, environmental stimuli, amino acids, even availability of nutrients’.

‘What sirtuins do is they upregulate many physiological processes in order to deal with potential danger’.

‘[Sirtuins] do need a molecule called NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, and without this molecule, they cannot perform its functions. And what's happening when we age is unfortunately we do have reduced levels of this molecule as we age’.

‘From anecdotal evidence from myself and people that I know that have supplemented themselves with both, everyone just pretty much mentioned to me that they do like NMN much more than NR and they can see the effect and this is the reason why I ended up supplementing with NMN myself’.

‘So within three, four days, I actually felt a different “different”. I felt different energy levels, I felt an increase in my energy levels and I felt an increase in my focus’.

‘Basically what activates the sirtuins is the resveratrol molecule, but in order for them to function properly, you do need the NMN because this is what they consume in order to function, and so this is why it's such a good synergy’.

‘Besides sirtuins, there are different other enzymes called NADases that also consume NAD and if they do that consistently there is not enough NAD for sirtuins to do their job’.

About Dr Elena Dr Elena Seranova started her ventures into medicine through psychology. She established her private practice as a wellness centre, where she encountered neurofeedback therapy and decided to pursue neuroscience studies.

She took up her MSc in Translational Neuroscience at the University of Sheffield, followed by a PhD in Stem Cell Biology & Autophagy at the University of Birmingham. Her work focuses on the molecular pathways involved in autophagy.

Dr Elena is also a serial entrepreneur. Aside from her wellness centre, she also co-founded a biotech startup before her PhD studies. She is the founder of NMN Bio, a company focused on NMN and other anti-aging supplements.

To learn more about Dr Elena and her work, reach out through her website.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hello everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Super excited to have you again with me. Today I have Dr Elena Seranova, who is a molecular biologist to guest on the show. And really exciting. We’re going to be having Dr Elena on regularly to talk different aspects of longevity and anti-aging. And today we're talking about longevity. We're talking about sirtuin genes. You might be thinking, ‘What the hell are sirtuin genes’? but you're about to find out. And why it's important and what you can do to upregulate and support these genes, these anti-aging genes or longevity genes.

So before we get over to the show, just want to remind you. If you are wanting help with any sort of health journey that you're on, if you want some one on one coaching and please reach out to me at lisa@lisatamati.com. If you're looking for help with gene testing, epigenetics, anything of that nature as we've spoken about before on this podcast, you can also reach out to me there, or check out the programme via our website, at lisatamati.com. Everything in health now is about personalizing everything to your genetics. So that's the nutrition, your timings of the day when you eat when you exercise, what parts of your brain you use the most, what your dominant hormones, your personality traits, because of your genetics, all of these aspects are covered in our epigenetics programme. So I'd love you to go and get that.

And for all you runners out there, come and join us at Running Hot Coaching, that's our online run training system. We'd love to coach you. We have personalized customized training plans specifically made for you for your specific goal, along with side video analysis, and you also get a one on one session with me. So go and check that all out at runninghotcoaching.com. That's all for data today.

I am really stoked to have you back. I hope that 2021 is going well for you, that you've had a good break over the last few weeks. And if you're in the southern hemisphere, you're enjoying our beautiful summer. So without further ado, Dr Elena Seranova over in Dubai.

Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. I'm super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin. I have an amazing lady with me, Dr Elena Seranova. Hello Dr Elena, how are you doing?

Dr Elena Seranova: Hello, hello, it's really nice to be here today. Thank you for the invitation!

Lisa: It is super exciting. So Dr Elena is sitting in Dubai, and we're going to be having a really in depth conversation today. And it will get a little bit scientific but hang in there with us people because this is all about longevity and anti-aging and who isn't into that?

So Dr Elena is a molecular biologist. And she's going to be sharing today some really critical information about the sirtuin genes. you’d be going, ‘What the heck is a sirtuin genes and what do they do? And why do I need to know about them?’ But these are really important things.

But before we get into that, the nitty gritty of the science, Dr Elena, can you give us a little bit of background on you and where you've come from? And what you've done in a nutshell, so to speak?

Dr Elena: Absolutely, yes, so I'm actually an interdisciplinary scientist. So I started my studies in the field of psychology. And then I opened my private practice. So that was my first business that grew into a wellness centre and was in operation for five years. I had two branches. That was back in my home country in Greece.

And I ended up working with a neurofeedback device that was basically retraining the nervous system of different patients with psychological and neurological diseases. And this is how I got interested in neuroscience. And I started studying it myself. I took a couple of those online courses. And I realized that this is such an amazing field.

And in order to understand the symptoms that I see my patients, I actually need to understand the proper science behind it.

And when I started digging deeper, I realized that it's actually the genetic component that is the crucial part that produces all the symptoms. So then I found this amazing master's degree in neuroscience and genetics, and specifically in translational neuroscience in the UK. And back in the days, in 2015, the Greek crisis was bad. So I couldn't grow my business as much as I'd like.

So I decided to move to the UK to do this master's degree. And after this, I ended up, co-founded a biotech start-up that also had to do with the biochemical assays that were aimed at elucidating gene to gene regulatory networks.

And with that, I also realized that I'm even more fascinated by the science, and I really want to stay in biotech. And my co-founders were making fun of me because I was the only person in the office not having a PhD. Yes, that was a traumatic experience. And at the same time, they were surprised when I said that I'm leaving the start-up to do my PhD.

Lisa: They shouldn’t have said so.

Dr Elena: Yes, exactly. So yes, this is how I continued my studies. And my research was focused on the molecular pathway of autophagy. And I was using human physiological cellular platforms of neurodegeneration, utilizing human embryonic stem cells and induced pluripotent stem cells to model neurodegeneration, which was very, very interesting.

And I actually have a review in the Journal of molecular biology that got out a few months ago, in April 2020, on the modelling of neurodegenerative diseases and studying autophagy in those models in human pluripotent stem cells. For anyone interested, you can go check it out. It has an open access.

Lisa: We’ll put the link in. Well done. Congratulations, that’s pretty amazing. And that brings me to a point I'll have to have a separate conversation with you about neurodegeneration and what we can do for the elderly. I've got a vested interest in that one. So we'll definitely put that on our calendar because Dr Elena is going to be coming on the show actually quite regularly in the next few months. So we're going to be doing a bit of a series because I think the information that Dr Elena has is just going to be crucial for you guys out there listening. So really, really excited.

But today's subject is all around sirtuin genes. Now these are—I'm going to try and explain it because I've been deep in this research too. So what tipped me down to this path and longevity and anti-aging, obviously, I've been in that space for a while. I listened to Dr David Sinclair on a podcast and subsequently read his book Lifespan, which I recommend everybody go out and buy. It's called Lifespan: How We AgeAnd Why We Don't Need To.

And Dr David Sinclair is a very, very prominent scientist at Harvard Medical School. And he has his own lab and he’s been studying anti-aging and longevity for decades now. And he was actually the one of the scientists who discovered resveratrol, which we're going to get into today and what resveratrol does, and it's very pertinent to the conversation. But it is also in this book, really giving me an eye opener into what's coming down the pipeline as far as longevity and being able to turn the clock, actually literally back to when you—so, our cells become young.

It sounds almost science fiction-y, some of the stuff that he's talking about that is just around the corner. It is like absolutely amazing stuff that we are going to be able to live longer, healthier lives. And for me, it is about health span, as well as like I obviously want to live long, but most importantly, I want to live healthy till the end. And I think that's probably the priority for everybody. Rather than having the typical degenerative, long, slow, drawn out process.

So anything that I can do to help my friends, my followers, my family live healthier lifespans, I'm into that research. So Doctor Sinclair is an expert on sirtuin genes, this is an area that he studied. And Dr Elena knows all about this. So Dr Elena, can you just tell us, for starters, where do we start on this big subject of longevity genes? And what they do in the body? That might be a good place to start.

Dr Elena: Yes, sure. So sirtuins are enzymes, basically. And it's a group of genes that is quite well conserved across multiple organisms, which means that they play a very important role in evolution and in our biology. And what they basically do is they control the epigenetic regulation in ourselves. And this means that when—in different tissues, there are different genes being activated at a different time. So we'll be having different sets of genes being activated, and this will be in response to different external stimuli, environmental stimuli, amino acids, even availability of nutrients, things like that. And what they really do is they control that all of the important regulatory pathways in the cell are functioning as needed, and they are quite responsive to external stimuli.

So for instance, you mentioned resveratrol, which is a molecule that is found in grapes and in other berries and different plant sources. So, resveratrol is actually found when the plants are stressed. So when there is some sort of either fungal infection in the plants, or there is no water and so on, resveratrol is the molecule that is being secreted. And what's happening is that sirtuins can sense this molecule, and as a result they do get upregulated.

And the reason for this — I guess this evolved from a revolutionary stand point of view is that, so you would have let's say, some small animals running around and consuming different plants, things like that. So the small animals cannot really distinguish consciously between danger, different dangers or lack of foods and things like that. So this process had to somehow be automated. So for this reason, again, resveratrol is like a signal that says to the little animal that there is some sort of danger in the environment. And then what's sirtuins do is they upregulate many physiological processes in order to deal with potential danger.

And there are different stimuli like that in our environment, and we can actually artificially activate sirtuins. So for example, with the use of sauna. We do have this heat shock response, where there is a stress signal from the environment, and then again sirtuins get activated because there is some sort of stressor coming into the body. Another one is exercise. So what happens? And actually not any kind of exercise. But let's say if you're just going for a walk for 20 minutes, you won’t get sirtuin activation. But if you're going for a run, and you start being out of breath, so that your body goes into slight hypoxia. And this is the signal that activates the sirtuin. So for all of the healthy living enthusiasts, don’t just go for a run. Absolutely.

Lisa: So just to recap on that, so this sirtuin genes which code for this enzyme. This enzyme is really important, and we'll get into a little bit more than nuts and bolts of this enzyme, but it does some very important activations on the genome, which is what we want.

Dr Elena: It basically regulates which genes will be switched on and which genes will be switched off. So it allows for a very tight control, for a very tight regulation of the functionality of different genes in the cell.

Lisa: Right. And then so sauna, which produces heat shock proteins, I've just bought a sauna recently for that reason. Yes, yes. Well, I heard about heat shock proteins, what sauna can do, how beneficial it is for so many things. I didn't make the connection to that and sirtuin genes. So that's really something I've learned today.

I did know about the exercise, and this is why like high intensity interval training, in moderation people — not like go and do this every day, please, but in moderation. It has a longevity benefit, has an improved actual VO2 max and endurance. And all of these great cardiovascular benefits is partly in relation to the sirtuin genes.

And just going back to the resveratrol, this is a xenohormesis, isn't it? So a stressor that the body goes, ‘Oh, where our environment—is there's something wrong in our environment. So we need to hunker down and get ready for battle’, rather than going forth and multiplying and everything's easy and happy.

So we want to push and pull in regards to all of these things like exercise, like sauna, like resveratrol, you want times of actually pushing things and in times of recovery, so it's not just going in one direction, is it? It is like balance.

Dr Elena: Definitely. Definitely. And then yes. And then another trigger for the sirtuins phase, caloric restriction. And this again comes from what we just described about the animal being hungry, potentially in the near future. So the sirtuins get activated. So it’s the same when you're on a calorie restriction and you're doing intermittent fasting, you will get this reaction again.

And this is tied up to autophagy as well, which has been activated. So you actually need to be fasted for several hours for autophagy to be activated. And research suggests it could be around 18 to 20 hours or more in humans. So I'm personally trying to do this on a daily basis. I'm having a very narrow window where I consume food probably three, four hours a day. I mean, it's not possible, always, especially when you're traveling around like I do at the moment. It might be challenging because I also want to eat high quality food. So I don’t want to be eating junk at the airport.

Lisa: Pretty hard, isn’t it?

Dr Elena: Yes. I mean, sometimes this actually pushes me to fasting even longer.

Lisa: Great discipline. I can't—I struggle to go over the 16 hour. And I think partly with autophagy—so autophagy, people, this is when the body basically, there is a pathway called mTOR, which we're going to probably do another episode on. And this is a growth regulation pathway where we are actually—if we are activating there's a lot of amino acids, a lot of proteins in the body and a lot of nutrients in the body sort of goes into growth mode. So like bodybuilders want this growth mode for example.

And when you go hypocaloric for a while and you restrict the calorie intake, then the body goes into a state of autophagy, which is where it's basically eating and recycling it's old cells that actually need to be gotten rid of. And these cells are called senescent cells. So these cells are alive, and they're putting out inflammatory chemicals or cytokines, and then not actually replicating, and that causes problems in the body. And as we get older, we eat more senescent cells.

So you don't want to be in a state of starving all the time. That's not what we're saying here. This is why it's intermittent fasting. And you don't have to do this every day, people. I know, I don't. I'm not as disciplined as Elena. But doing this on, I think something like five days may be normal and a couple of days, where it's sort of a longer fasting period. And just giving your body that change. If you go hypocaloric for weeks on end, you're going to down regulate your metabolism. So that's not where we want to go. And then you're going to have nutrient deficiencies and so on from that point of view. What we're trying to get is this seesaw, the body seems to—like in all of the studies that I've done, it seems to like the seesaw, like cycling. It likes going up and down, up and down. And that actually helps it keep its ideal balance, putting it very bluntly and simply.

So autophagy is something that we want. So fasting, mimicking sauna, exercise, all of these things are going to upregulate the sirtuin genes and these sirtuin genes. Now can you tell us—there are seven sirtuin genes in the human genome, can you just go briefly over what one up to seven does?

Dr Elena: Yes, I mean, there are quite a few functions that those genes have. So I don't think we'll have time to go through all of them. The important ones for our subject today for sports and longevity, and so on, is sirtuin 1 for sure, which is a very important protein that can be found both in the nucleus and the cytoplasm. And actually, its expression is different in different kinds of tissues and it also depends on its necessity and its function. And it's actually what we’ve seen is that sirtuin 1 is one of the first genes that would go onto the side of a double stranded DNA break to recover it. So it is heavily involved with DNA repair, very important gene.

And then sirtuin 3 would be the other very important for longevity, which has to do with mitochondrial health and mitochondrial function. So those two, they both are enzymes that in order to function, they do need a molecule called NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide. And without this molecule, they cannot perform its functions. And what's happening, when we age is unfortunately we do have a reduced levels of this molecule as we age, of NAD. And it just keeps on decreasing and decreasing, basically leading into death but a literal death spiral, where you don't have this beneficial effect of the sirtuin genes repairing your genome, repairing your DNA. And the epigenetic regulation becomes basically loose. So this is what is directing the loss of cellular identity as well. So this is one of the hallmarks of aging, where the cells are losing their identity. And then everything that is happening in the cell, all of the functions, they’re being so tightly regulated. So this is what's happening there.

And then NAD, it's worth mentioning that it exists in two forms and both forms are important. So NAD+, which is the oxidized form and NADH, which is the reduced form. So the reduced form, it's actually something that not many people talk about in the aging space and the supplement space, so they barely know NADH and NAD+. And NADH is actually important for the maintenance of mitochondrial membrane potential. So if you don't have enough NADH, your mitochondrial membrane potential will not be preserved as needed. And this would also lead to decreased mitochondrial function. And decreased mitochondrial function means that you will have a less ATP production and less energy as a result.

And the reason why this is so important for neurodegeneration, as you mentioned previously, because actually, the central nervous system is perhaps the first one that is being affected as we age. So it's very important. And the reason for this is that the postmitotic neurons that we have in the brain, they are heavily relying on massive ATP production in order to function.

Lisa: So let's stop there, Elena because your brain is so big. We might have lost a few people on the way there, we might have to backtrack a little bit. So NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide plus or NADH. So is this a little bit like oxidized, like vitamin C oxidizes and then reduces, oxidizes and reduces. And electrons can be donated backwards and forwards. Is that the same thing, sort of pathways?

Dr Elena: Yes, yes. Yes. That’s right. So NADH gains two electrons.

Lisa: And that is recycled through?

Dr Elena: Yes, this is happening through electron transport chain in the mitochondria. And we need both of those molecules in order to maintain proper cellular function. And so this would bring us to our next subject, which is what we can do in order to fix this decline of NAD.

Lisa: Before we go there, let’s just hang on a tiny bit on this NAD, because — so NAD, I know Dr David Sinclair said, arguably the most important molecule. So people, note this name, NAD, NAD+, or NADH. This is the most important molecule in our body next to ATP, and ATP is our energy production. So without energy we’re dead in 30 seconds, and without NAD, we're dead in 30 seconds as well. So either or we're both pretty much up the creek if we don't have either.

As we age, the NAD levels go down. And one of the things that regulates the NAD, or needs NAD sorry, is the sirtuin genes to do their job of DNA repair, is one of their jobs. There are many jobs that it does. And if the NAD is being used by the sirtuin genes to repair DNA, then it's not doing its other jobs. And as we get older, like we have something like 2 trillion DNA breaks, it can be wrong, per minute or something ridiculous. Dr Sinclair said, every minute in our body — so, these enzymes are running around trillions of times in our body doing the DNA repair. And also we need to replicate ourselves and do all of this sort of work.

So if the sirtuin enzymes are busy doing one thing, they're not doing another thing. So we want to have more of these enzymes available for all of these jobs. And especially as we get older, and we need more support. So that's just a bit of how that sort of explained what the NAD is.

Now, we should go on to the next part of the equation. So like there was an NAD salvage pathway, the body needs grams of it every day and we don't necessarily just get it by our food. But there is NAD boosters. What can we do to increase our NAD levels in the body?

Dr Elena: Yes, so yes, this is exactly where energy booster supplements come in. And there are various supplements out there. and recent evidence points towards two particular molecules that are being researched. One is an NR, nicotinamide riboside and then the second one is NMN, which is nicotinamide mononucleotide.

So now the NR molecule, in order to boost the NAD levels it needs to be converted into NMN first. And for this reason, scientists are focusing predominantly on NM. And I would say now there is increased interest in the NMN molecule at the moment because it looks like it has increased bioavailability, is being absorbed better. And in tests in mice, it does have a better effect on NR in terms of boosting NAD, but also in terms of the—in terms of improving the phenotype of aging mice with different studies that we've seen that have come out in the past couple of years, from gene expression to energy metabolism, lipid metabolism, insulin sensitivity. A bunch of other markers being improved in my supplemented with NMN. And I have to be honest with you I haven't looked in depth into the research for NR, however the evidence from NMN studies so far is quite overwhelming for me.

Lisa: Exactly, wonderful with all the research, too.

Dr Elena: Yes. I mean we would need to have more comparisons but from anecdotal evidence from myself and people that I know that have supplemented themselves with both, everyone just pretty much mentions to me that they do like NMN much more than NR, and they can see the effect. And this is the reason why I ended up supplementing with NMN myself.

So basically, I started studying NAD biology in block during my PhD. And unfortunately, my research paper is not published yet, so I won't be able to share that out. Perhaps next year hopefully I'll be able to share my data with you.

There is a paper from our collaborators lab though that is on bio archive already. And it's from Viktor Korolchuk in Newcastle. And they showed there how basically functional autophagy can maintain NADH pools, which is quite an interesting paper. And it does intertwine a bit with my work. But unfortunately, I can't share right now.

Lisa: Yes, you have to keep zip right now until it's published. So we can link to the bio archive, the one you mentioned there, at least, do some research and also I’ll also link to Dr David Sinclair's work, in his book, obviously. Because it does put it in in a way that people can understand, which is really, really important.

Okay, so NMN, nicotinamide mononucleotide is one of the in NAD boosters, and we need the in NAD to...

Dr Elena: Yes. And it's the only direct precursor of NAD. So this is the beauty of it. So from NMN, it converts straight away to NAD. So this is why it has such an enhanced bioavailability. This is why it has those effects because NAD is quite a large molecule by itself. So it's actually hard to—if you supplement orally with NAD. The absorption of the—it will not be high, because of how big the molecule is. So this is why it's called dinucleotide because it has two nucleotides that would need to penetrate the cell. But NMN is a mono nucleotide. And this is why it absorbs better

Lisa: It's actually made there—it's put together in the cell. So the nicotinamide mononucleotide enters through the membrane into the cell, from what I'm understanding, and then it becomes a dinucleotide. So it's a phosphorus molecule, I think or something that's added to the NMN. And then it's an NAD.

Dr Elena: So yes, so basically it's NMN is a phosphorylated NR molecule basically.

Lisa: Okay, phosphorylated NR molecule, okay, and then when it goes to NAD...

Dr Elena: And that’s the reason why NMN is actually a bit more expensive than other supplements. Because in comparison to other supplements that are just, let's say, plant extracts or something like this, there is quite a lot of biology implicated in the production of NMN. So there are several steps it would need to go through. And it's quite complex and laborious to produce. And this is why it's a bit higher in terms of price.

But from my personal experience again, so I started supplementing with NMN over a year ago, while I was still doing my PhD. And at that point—when I found NMN, I already had a burnout. So, which is something that a lot of PhD students experience and my project was quite, quite challenging. And human embryonic stem cells require quite a lot of cell culture in order to just survive, let alone to expand them and do experiments on them.

So yes, at some point during my PhD, I literally was doing 18 hours, from 6am till midnight. With eight or ten hours of cell culture during that day, let alone the experiments I had to do. So yes, quite challenging. However, it was a priceless experience. I learned a lot. And I think that it was definitely worth it.

So yes, back in the day, so while I was experiencing this burnout, I found out about NMN. And I thought to give it a go. And it was basically amazing the fact because I've been supplementing with different supplements for the past 15 years or so. And I'm a biohacker myself.

Lisa: Yes, yes. Like me.

Dr Elena: I transfer with different supplements and stuff. And this was the supplement that I felt the effect of within a few days of taking it and I've never experienced that before with any other supplements. So within three, four days, I actually felt different. I felt the different energy levels. I felt an increase in my energy levels and I felt an increase in my focus. And I remember my partner calling me at some point in the evening at 8 or 9pm, something like that. And we were talking on the phone and he just said ‘Oh, so you're not tired yet’. And I’m like, ‘No, I'm not tired. I actually feel great’.

Lisa: ‘This stuff's working’.

Dr Elena: Absolutely. Yes. And this is how my current business was born. And this is how NMN Bio was born. And I was so excited to actually have a product in the market that is pure, potent and I know that it is what it is. And because I have been struggling to find a good supplier of NMN for quite some time.

Lisa: Tell me about it.

Dr Elena: Yes, because of its price, I think that there are quite a lot of opportunistic companies out there that just white label the NMN powder, and they don't even have a certificate of analysis and you don't even know what's in there and things like that. And they just totally diluted with niacin or something else.

Lisa: Exactly. Yes, this is a danger and this is why having a significant analysis and having it scientifically backed in every batch tested and stuff is really important. I've been on—prior to meeting Dr Elena—I've been on in NMN for maybe five, six months now. And I've had my mom and my brother on it and my husband on it. But I had to go through, jump through all of these loops to get it out of America. Get it sent to someone there. Get it shipped over here and it's not been available down the scene of the world. And finding a reputable source is absolutely key with this molecule.

I remember David Sinclair saying, when you do get your NMN do keep it in a cool, dry place. So don't stick it in a hot place under the sun somewhere. Ideally, probably in the fridge if you can, to give it an extended shelf life and for it to do its job properly.

So you've founded a company NMN Bio, at the UK, and I'm really excited to be working with Dr Elena and I'm going to be importing it down to Australasia.

Dr Elena: I'm super excited about this too.

Lisa: Yes, me too. Like it's just super exciting for me. Because I'm spending a fortune a month, giving this to my family anyway. And I could never test what I was doing. And now I have a place where I can trust that it's coming from a good source.

So nicotinamide mononucleotide is the one aspect but that's not the end of it all. Is it though? That's not—so resveratrol we mentioned before. This work in combination—and on that point, it should be trans-resveratrol that you take, if you're taking resveratrol with it.

Dr Elena: Yes, absolutely.

Lisa: And we don't have this yet in the cater of products. But this is in the pipeline, isn't it, Dr Elena?

Dr Elena: Absolutely. Yes, this is coming in 2021. Super excited about it. Hopefully we'll have it on the market in the next few months.

Lisa: In the next months.

And but resveratrol, trans-resveratrol you want to be taking that in combination with nicotinamide mononucleotide. So an analogy that Dr Sinclair said was resveratrol is like the accelerator pedal and nicotinamide is the fuel. I think that’s the way around.

Dr Elena: Yes, absolutely. That's correct, because basically what activates the sirtuin is the resveratrol molecule. But in order for them to function properly, you do need the NMN because this is what they consume in order to function. And so this is why it's such a good synergy. And as you said, trans-resveratrol is absorbed much more. And also in order to increase the bioavailability of resveratrol, it's good to take it with some sort of full fat dairy. So for instance, a yogurt. David Sinclair says that he does take it in the morning with a full fat yogurt.

Lisa: With some fat, yes..

Dr Elena: In fats, or you could you could do some cheese, probably. I do yogurt as well.

Lisa: Does it have to be dairy? I've been taking it with oil, is that okay?

Dr Elena: Yes, this could work as well. So yes, absolutely. There are a few people doing olive oil for this type.

Lisa: So it just needs a fat in order for it to be bioavailable, because it’s a dry powder. And so the oil in the fat helps. Because it's a very insoluble molecule.

Dr Elena: And then what I do for my personal anti-aging cocktail...

Lisa: Which is obviously working, because Dr Elena is actually 110 years old.

Dr Elena: No, just 32.

Lisa: She’s just 32 but looks like—honestly, I thought, seriously 32? I would have thought you were 22. So something's working. The good diet. It can't be that overworked because you've been definitely overworking for the past few years. And this is obviously helping.

And I'm 52. So I'm old enough to be your mom. And I'm definitely super excited about anything that's coming down the pathway that's going to slow down the degeneration. Because over the years, and after smashing the crap out of my body, I've definitely got some repair work to do. And my mom is 79 years old, she's in the corner over there, taking her NMN as we speak, and her resveratrol, along with their hemp seed oil and all the other supplements and a big green smoothie of broccoli juice. So she's like going, ‘ugh’, it'd be quite funny for you to see her face right now.

Dr Elena: You should also add apigenin to her cocktails. So, this is another molecule which is very interesting. And perhaps in a later podcast, we can also talk about a couple of different things that have to do with raising your NAD levels in different ways. So, basically, what happens, besides sirtuins, there are different other enzymes called NADases that also consume NAD. And if they do that, consistently, there is not enough NAD for sirtuins to do their job.

So such enzymes are called parks, which are activated when there are some stress signals in the body. So, for instance, one such signals when let's say your mitochondria are going bad and there is some sort of stress related to mitochondrial function, you will get a secretion of cytochrome c from mitochondria. And then as a result, you will get some sort of activation of the park enzymes and they also consume NAD.

Another NADase is CD38. So, this is an enzyme that is activated when there is increased inflammation in the body. So, as we age, CD38 levels increase. And what has been demonstrated very beautifully in a recent study in mice was that CD38 actually controls the functions of sirtuin 3 in an NAD dependent manner. Because they did quite an elegant experiment, where they did have CD38 knockout mice, and the wild type mice or regular mice. And in the CD38 knockout mice the levels of sirtuin are two and a half times higher. And then when they put a saturating amount of NAD in the wild type mice, what happened is basically the function of sirtuin is also increased. And it was similar with the function of surgeries in CD38 knockout mice. So this means that if CD38 is absent, then sirtuin3 in this instance is upregulated and is working much more. But when CD38 is present, it consumes all of NAD and then there is not enough NAD for sirtuins.

Lisa: And this is so this is why we need a bigger pool of NAD, basically for all of these problems as we age.

Dr Elena: So this is one point and then the second point I was going to do there is that apigenin, so the supplement that I mentioned to you, which is actually present in parsley and predominantly in dried parsley. So you can actually get it for cheap.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Elena: Have a teaspoon of dried parsley every day. So apigenin is a molecule that actually blocks CD38. So this means that it can also increase the levels of your NAD and make it available for your sirtuins.

Lisa: Wow. I'm off to get some parsley. I just ripped my parsley plants out of the garden. Bugger. I will get seeds, so I'll have to plant some more. And you do need to dry it in order for it to intensify.

Dr Elena: If you dry it, it will have even apigenin. So, the bioavailability increases somehow, I'm not entirely sure of the mechanism. But yes, dried parsley.

Lisa: Yes. Sorry. There's a noise in the background with my mum washing out a broccoli.

Dr Elena: No worries.

Lisa: Yes, yes, yes, this is my podcast life. Real.

So activated immune cells. So like I've had an infection for the last couple of weeks. So I've been under a hell of a lot of stress in the last year, like really—losing my father and so on, a hell of a lot of stress. And the day before Christmas, I stopped working and I started to relax and my immune system then went, ‘Okay, cortisol levels are now going down. We're going to make you sick. We’re going to do some repair work’.

Dr Elena: That’s how it’s usually done.

Lisa: Yes, yes. That's what happens when you relax. So my whole Christmas period was spent with a head cold and a chest cold. Now, when my immune system is activated like that, I'm going to need a lot more NAD because of this in NADases. You call them, NADases? And the CD38 would have been one of those things that was probably more active when I was sick. Would that be right? Okay, so we need to increase that in order to help our immune system.

So does this—random thought—does this help with other autoimmune diseases as well? Like, does it help deep down regulate some of the inflammatory pathways?

Dr Elena: I don't know, this is not my area of expertise. Wouldn’t be able to comment on top of my head on this.

Lisa: Yes, just me connecting the dots going—that would make sense but okay. So all right, so we've covered quite a lot of ground today. And I think we'll probably wrap it up there, Dr Elena. And we'll go on to mTOR and autophagy and other things in subsequent podcasts, and so on.

So we're going to put all the links. If you guys want to get some NMN, and in a few months, we will have resveratrol as well. I'm going to put the links in the show notes to the new website. And we're going to be importing it down to here to New Zealand and Australasia. And I'm really excited about that. Because there is one other company that has it here and it's not got any certificate of analysis, there's no sort of thing. So you want to make sure that you know where you're getting this information from all your supplements from, and you want to know who's behind it.

So I'm really, really excited about working with your Dr Elena. I think this is brilliant. I know we've got a whole lot of products that are in the pipeline that are going to be coming down in the next year or so. Other things—so we will be covering those in future episodes. Things like, I don't know epistane...

Dr Elena: We should definitely talk about senescent cells and what we can do in order to combat them. And then of course, the subject of my PhD, which was around autophagy. So, this is definitely a very nice subject for discussion, because as you mentioned, mTOR is not something that you want to mess with on a regular basis. And actually, the good news are that there is the mTOR- dependent activation of autophagy and mTOR independent activation of autophagy. So my PhD supervisor was the one that discovered during his PhD probably 20 years ago, 15 years ago, the mTOR- independent regulation of autophagy and different molecules that value also can work and activate autophagy in an mTOR-independent manner. So one such molecule is already on the market as a natural sweetener. It's called trehalose.

Lisa: Trehalose.

Dr Elena: If you want to supplement your...

Lisa: How do you spell that?

Dr Elena: Trehalose. T-R-E-H-A-L-O-S-E. This is what I use for my coffee.

Lisa: Oh, trehalose. So that will help you increase your autophagy?

Dr Elena: Trehalose has been shown to activate autophagy in an mTOR-independent manner. Yes.

Lisa: Wow. So I don't need to starve myself in order to activate...

Dr Elena: I mean, there is not that much data in humans yet on this particular molecule, to be honest. I actually don't know what is the dose that you would need to have this effect, but I still prefer it over sugar.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. And anything that supports that pathway anyway and getting rid of these senescent cells. So senescent cells just for those wondering what the hell we're talking about. Senescent cells are basically cells that are still alive, but they're no longer replicating. They're not doing the job properly. And they're sending out inflammatory signals into the body. So they attract cytokines that cause inflammatory responses.

And so what we want to do is we want to knock these cells off them to have their autophagy, meaning their cell death. And when we recycle the parts of the cells for the new job, and that's what we want to happen. As we get older, we get more and more senescent cells and there's actually literally ways our body down and stops and increases inflammation and causes a lot of the effects of aging, if you like. So that's definitely a subject for next time.

But Dr Elena, you've been fabulous today. Thank you so much for the work you do, for the patient you bring to the project. I'm super excited about our collaboration and helping lots of people stay younger for longer. I think that will be.

Dr Elena: Absolutely, that’s the goal.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. Have a wonderful evening because it’s around midnight in Dubai. So thank you very much for staying up late for me over in Dubai. It's probably too much.

Dr Elena: My pleasure.

Lisa: And we'll see you again soon. Thanks Dr Elena.

Dr Elena: Okay, thank you. Bye bye.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Every day, we spend an average of 20,000 breaths with 11,000 litres of air, primarily made with subconscious effort. If you want better health, changing your breathing technique probably isn’t the first option that comes to mind. We don’t even think about it; we don’t pay attention to how we do it. But it turns out that how you breathe has far-reaching effects on many aspects of human health. Discovering what it means to breathe correctly is crucial for greater wellness.

In this episode, author and journalist, James Nestor, joins us in seeking to unlock a person’s full breathing potential. He discusses the myriad of health benefits controlled respiration can provide. You’ll also learn how industrialisation made it harder to breathe correctly and how various exercises can improve your respiration.

Listen to this episode to discover simple methods to maximise the benefits of each breath you take.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Discover how carbon dioxide is necessary for getting enough oxygen in your body. 2. Learn how soft foods and bottle feeding during childhood can impact your health as an adult. 3. Understand how oral exercises and breathing practices can significantly improve your wellbeing.

Resources * DEEP: Freediving, Renegade Science, and What the Ocean Tells Us About Ourselves by James Nestor * Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor * Wim Hof Method * James Nestor’s website

Episode Highlights [04:03] How James Got into Breathing * James is a journalist who once covered a world freediving championship in Greece. * Despite being a swimmer and bodysurfer himself, he was astounded by participants who can dive 300 to 400 feet in a single breath. * Upon returning to San Francisco, James decided to write a book about freediving. His research exposed him to the art of breathing and its importance to wellbeing. * He learned that improper breathing is damaging to the body.

[10:29] The Physiology of Breathing * Contrary to widespread knowledge, it’s possible to have too much oxygen and not enough carbon dioxide in the body. However, it is essential to have a balance between these two. * Many standard breathing methods deplete carbon dioxide levels, leading to lower oxygen saturation and more unsatisfactory performance. * A study found that by holding their breath comfortably for 25 seconds, 85% of the athletes will not have a breathing dysfunction. * Instead of compensating, learning proper breathing techniques can increase your bodily tolerance for carbon dioxide. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the process of breathing!

[19:57] Basic Breathing Techniques * Most people breathe faster than the optimal rate without realising that many of their health problems come from their breathing rate. * The point of breathing exercises is to acclimate your body to breathe through the nose without thinking about it. * Slower breaths while maintaining the same volume of air can increase efficiency by 35%. * Transitioning to slower breathing will temporarily reduce performance, but you will eventually see improvements as your body acclimates.

[27:11] Nasal Breathing * Listen to the full episode for James’ points on running and breathing! * Nasal breathing leads up to 20% more oxygen absorption compared to mouth breathing, all else being equal. * Nitric oxide is a potent vasodilator that increases blood circulation. Nasal breathing increases nitric oxide concentrations six times more than mouth breathing. * Breathing through the nose is more effective in defending your body against viruses than any other form of breathing.

[38:36] Why Aren’t Breathing Interventions More Popular? * There’s not a lot of money that can come from breathing interventions. Hence, the development of this alternative practice isn’t promoted widely. * That said, James believes that alternative medicine isn’t always the answer. Conventional Western medicine is still crucial for many health interventions.

[41:38] How Modern Diets Changed the Way We Breathe * In antiquity, people always had perfectly straight teeth and larger mouths. * The introduction of industrialised food removed the need for a larger jaw. Evolution drove the shrinking of the human jaw, so more people have crooked teeth or impacted wisdom teeth. * Smaller oral cavities also made breathing more difficult, and the incidence of upper airway resistance syndrome rose.

[44:24] Childhood Feeding * Improper oral posture can root from habitually breathing through the mouth. * When we were younger, chewing was essential. The introduction of baby food prevented infants from performing the right chewing exercises. * Breastfeeding changes the face structure and promotes more efficient breathing. * Children need to eat hard foods to develop a proper jaw and airway.

[48:20] Oral Exercises * Even adults can see improvements in their breathing efficiency by doing basic oral exercises. * After a year of oral exercises, James was able to improve his airway size by around 15% to 20%. * Palate expanders are an option for people who need them. However, oropharyngeal exercises and myofunctional therapy are easier and more effective methods for improving your breathing.

[54:33] Relaxation through Breathing * Slow, focused breathing activates the parasympathetic nervous system, leading to greater relaxation. * Doing breathing exercises several times a day will immensely help you cope better with stress. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about how slow light breathing diaphragmatically stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve.

[59:14] Hormetic Stress * The quickest way to reduce stress is to breathe. It is all about working your respiratory system and working out your stress. * James suggests starting with the foundations of nasal breathing, slow breathing and awareness. * Similar to exercising at the gym, breathing exercises promote hormetic stress. At moderate amounts, hormetic stress is beneficial to human health. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the Wim Hof Breathing Method!

7 Powerful Quotes from this Episode ‘By mastering this sort of breathing, we can not only dive deep, but we can heat ourselves up, heal ourselves, and do so many other things’.

‘Scientific papers were published about this 115 years ago, showing very clearly that you need a balance of carbon dioxide and oxygen to operate effectively and efficiently. When we breathe too much, we can offload too much CO2, which actually makes it harder for us to bring oxygen throughout the body’.

‘That slower breath with that pressure allows us to gain 20% more oxygen breathing through our nose than equivalent breaths through our mouth.”

‘I think our bodies are the most powerful pharmacists on the planet and that’s been shown, so why not try to focus on your body and health a little bit’?

‘By having a smaller mouth, you have less room to breathe. And this is one of the main reasons so many of us struggle to breathe’.

‘Start slow, start low. See what your body can naturally do. If after six months, you’re like, ‘I’m still not, this isn’t working’, go see someone and take it from there’.

‘I talked to dozens and dozens of people who have fundamentally transformed themselves through nothing more than breathing. I want to mention it again. I’m not promising this is going to work for everyone, for everything, but it needs to be considered as a foundation to health’.

About James James Nestor is a journalist and bestselling author. He has contributed to many newspapers and publications such as The New York Times and Scientific American.

His first book, DEEP: Freediving, Renegade Science, and What the Ocean Tells Us about Ourselves, took inspiration from his journalistic coverage of a world freediving championship.

James also authored Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art where he combines thousand-year histories with modern research to shed light on proper breathing. His investigations have revolutionised the conventional understanding of breathing and have helped many people live healthier lives.

His other projects include speaking engagements for institutions, radio and television shows, and collaborations for scientific research and communication.

Learn more about James Nestor and his work on diving and breathing by visiting his website.

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Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can include more amino acids in protein in their diet.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to Pushing the Limits in this new year. I hope you're enjoying yourself. You've had a good break over the holidays, and I have a fantastic guest today. Wow, this guy is insane. So his name is James Nestor, and he is an author, New York Times best selling author, Wall Street Journal best selling author, London Times New York Times bestselling author of a book called Breathe. So it's all about breathing. You might think, how the hell do you write a book on breathing. But I tell you, this is going to be a really exciting interview, and you're going to learn so much that you wish you'd been taught years ago.

He's also the author of Deep, another best selling book that he did on freediving. And he's a filmmaker and science writer for many of the science magazines. Now in this book Breathe. He explores the million year long history of how the human species has lost the ability to breathe properly. And why we're suffering from a laundry list of maladies from snoring to sleep apnea to asthma to autoimmune diseases and allergies. And in this, on this journey in this book, which was absolutely fascinating. He travels the world and spends a decade in the attempt to figure out what went wrong and how do—we fix it.

And, you know, the links that the sky week two—for his research has just absolutely next level. I really enjoyed doing this interview with James. He's an incredible person. And just so very, very interesting. So I hope you enjoy the show. Before we head over to speak with James in San Francisco, just like to remind you to do a rating and review if you came for the show. This is a labour of love. And it really really helps the show get out there if you can give us a rating and review, either on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. Or if you can't work it out, just send me an email with it. And we'll gladly receive those as well.

And if you want to reach out to me if you've got any ideas for podcasts, or people that you would like to see on here, or if you have a question, health question, if you want help with health journey, health optimisation, epigenetics, run coaching, that's our day job. That's what we do for a living. And that's what we are passionate about. And that's what we love. So if you're having trouble with a tricky health issue, if you wanting high-performance, if you're wanting to do that next ultramarathon or first run your first five-kilometer race, whatever the case may be, please reach out to us, lisa@lisatamati.com. And you can find all our programs also on that website, as well as this podcast and lots of other goodies. So I hope you enjoy this interview with James Nestor. Over to the show now and thanks for listening.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. It's fantastic to have you with me and I am jumping out of my skin for excitement today because I have someone that I've been just so looking forward to interviewing. An amazing author, James Nestor, who is going to be sharing his research and his book, which is really a game-changer. Breathe is the name of the book. And James is coming to us all the way from San Francisco today. So welcome to the show, James. Fabulous to have you.

James Nestor: Thank you for having me.

Lisa: So James, can you just give us a bit of a background into your—who you are in your background? And how the heck did you end up writing a book about breathing? And why do we need to know about it?

James: So I'm a journalist, and I write for science magazines and outdoor magazines. I've been doing that for years and years and years. And I think the real jumping off point for me was when I was sent out to go to Greece to write about the world freediving championship. And even though I've spent my life near the ocean, I'm a surfer. I'm a swimmer and body surfer, all that, I had never really spent too much time under the ocean. And I had never seen anyone freedive before because the water is very cloudy here on the West Coast. There's not a lot of places to do this. So I remember going out in this boat, it was the first day of the competition and just watching these people take a single breath and go down 300, 400 feet on a single dive there. And come back four minutes later and—just it was like they we're answering emails just like.

Okay, next up, back for lunch. It was what the hell is going on here? I had understood that this was absolutely impossible. And yet here these people vary sizes, various forms - big, tall, large, small, all that - that had mastered this thing. And I got to be friends with a few of them who took me into this other side of freediving outside of the competitive freediving, which I just thought was pretty insane. And they allowed me to understand free diving as this meditation. And of course, breathing is at the core of this meditation. And by mastering the sort of breathing we can not only dive deep, but we can heat ourselves up, heal ourselves and do so many other things.

Lisa: Wow, so that was the jumping off point in, for those interested. Yeah, I've taken an interest in freediving too. And my gosh, what they do is pretty next level, insane. I don't think I'm crazy enough to really have a go at it. To be fair, but absolute admiration for what they do and how they do it, in—the everything that they have to overcome. But okay, so if we just jump in now, the into—how does we know? What can we learn from these free divers and other traditional breathing techniques? And why is it important for the everyday person to be understanding how the breath works in the physiology, which we'll get into which I found absolutely mind blowing and thought, why is nobody told me this? And why did—why does, why should someone listening to this actually be interested?

James: So the free divers told me that the only way to hold your breath is to master this art of breathing. And it was also something interesting to see all of these different people. And they all had these enormous chest, they had expanded their lung capacity. Some people double the average adult lung capacity by forcing. Well, they were not born this way. So it made me think about how malleable the body is depending on what inputs we give to it. And so I got back to San Francisco, and I wrote another book that featured freedivers. But in the back of my mind, that book was called Deep. And it looks at the human connection from the very surface to the very bottom of the deepest sea, magnetoreception echolocation all that.

But as I was researching that book, and writing, I just kept finding more and more information about breathing, about how so many of us in the West, including in the medical world view breathing as just this binary thing. As long as we were breathing, we're healthy, and we're alive. When you're not breathing, that's bad, your dad or you have a serious problem. But that is such the wrong way of looking at this. It's like saying, as long as you are eating, you're getting food, you're getting nutrients. But it's what you eat. That's so important. And it's how you breathe. That's so important.

So I was lucky enough to then meet a bunch of leading experts in this field who have been studying this stuff for decades, even publishing in these weird scientific journals. No one's been reading their stuff. I thought, why the hell hasn't anyone told me this? Like, I'm middle aged, I've been mouth breathing, through most of my life. I've been whenever I was working out or surfing, I'm just thinking I'm getting more oxygen in. And this is so damaging to the body, and no one was talking about it.

So this book took me so long, because I couldn't understand why some researchers on one side were saying how you breathe has no effect on your asthma, has no effect on your body, on your brain. And this other side was saying they're 100% wrong. Here's all the data. So it was going through all that and weeding through all that that took me a while. But I think at the end, I finally found the truth behind all of this.

Lisa: He certainly did. And the book is such a deep deep dive like you know, and I've been talking to some friends about you know, reading this book and, and everything. How can you have a whole book on breathing? And I'm like, you have no idea. You could probably write 10 books on breathing and it's so powerful. And as an athlete I've, you know, I was just saying to you prior to the recording, I've spent my entire life as an asthmatic since I was two years old. I have a very small lung capacity. I have a low VO2 max, despite that I decided to become an endurance athlete. Go figure that one out, got some mental issues, obviously.

But I'd spent my entire athletic career breathing in my mouth in places like Death Valley, in the Sahara, in the Himalayas, and altitude, and you know, freezing cold temperatures. And all of the problems that that brought and so this book has been a life-changing thing for me personally. Unfortunately, I'm no longer a competitive athlete bagger. You know, like I didn't get the memo back then. But now training hundreds of athletes. Wow, I can start to influence them and change them and are already started to adopt some of the information into the programs that we're using. So super powerful information, and in really important. So, okay, now let's go into a little bit—the physiology of breath because we sort of think if I take deep breaths, and breathe often in faster, if I'm running, then I'm going along. I'm getting as much oxygen as my body can get. Why is that completely upside down?

James: That is upside down. And it's so counterintuitive. It took me months to get my head around this, even though we've known these scientific papers were published on this 115 years ago, showing very clearly that you need a balance of carbon dioxide and oxygen to operate effectively and efficiently. And when we breathe too much, we can offload too much CO2, which actually makes it harder for us to bring oxygen throughout the body.

If you don't believe me right now, you can breathe 20 or 30, heavy breaths. You might feel some tingling in your fingers or some lightness in your head. This is not from an increase of oxygen to these areas, but a decrease of circulation.

Lisa: Wow.

James: Because you need a balance of CO2, for circulation, for vasodilation. This is—it is integral to providing blood and nutrients to our body. And for some reason, as Westerners we just think more is better, more is always more. That is not the way of the proper way of thinking about this when you talk about breathing, you want to breathe as closely in line with your metabolic needs as possible. Why would you?

It's like being in a car. Why would you be revving the motor? Everywhere you're going, I had a stop sign just revving the motor. When you were over breathing. That's exactly what you're doing. You're causing a bunch of wear and tear on your heart on your vascular system. And you're sending stress in those—to your mind. People like you are very strong willed and we'll fight through it right you'll just keep going you're in pain, I don't care. I'm gonna finish this race. I'm gonna make it happen. Compensation is different than health. Oh, and and so this is why so many professional athletes, they'll be really good for a few years. The minute they stopped, diabetes, chronic health problems. Our body..

Lisa: Thyroid, diabetes, metabolic problems. Yeah, like no hell, you've spent your life being a disciplined athlete. I'm struggling with hypothyroid, for example, and high blood sugars. And I'm lean and I'm, you know, it's like what the heck. Like, wow. And I hope through the breathing in some of the other stuff that I'm doing that I can remove some of the damage because you're because it is so counterintuitive. So that carbon dioxide there was a real mind bender for me, because I've always understood carbon dioxide as a negative thing. You know, we want to breathe it out. We want to get it out of the system. That's the end result of you know, what do you call it the electron chain in the ATP production, and we're producing this carbon dioxide, we're gonna give it out.

And that's not the case, isn't it? It's a controller of the acidity in the blood is something that we want to train, our chemoreceptors need to be trained in order to be able to tolerate more carbon dioxide. So this just dive into the winds a little bit on the actual physiology that I've just touched on the air so that we can actually get to the bottom of this carbon dioxide, your mind bender, really.

James: So when we take breath in, it enters into our lungs and the bronchioles, to these little air sacs, the alveoli, and from there it goes through various layers and enters into red blood cells. The vast majority of oxygen enters into red blood. So there's some free floating but not much. So in those red blood cells or something like 270 million hemoglobin, and so then it enters into this hemoglobin. And it's, you know, it's funny, why would when we're working out, why would we get more oxygen in one area than another? So CO2 is the signaling molecule. So where oxygen is going to detach is an areas where there is CO2, and oxygen isn't going to attach otherwise. So you need this healthy balance of CO2, we have 100 times more CO2 in our bodies than we do oxygen.

Lisa: Wow.

James: Okay, so this is this very carefully controlled system that needs to be in balance, and our bodies are so wonderful at keeping us alive. So when we become imbalanced, all these other things happen. If we become too acidic, we'll learn to breathe more, right? We’ll trigger that if we become too alkaline, our kidneys will release bicarbonate. So all of this is incredible and so important.

Compensation, different than health. We can compensate for a very long time. Imagine you can live maybe 40 years eating garbage crap food eating Fritos. That doesn't mean you're healthy. No offense to Fritos. Delicious, absolutely delicious. But, you know, it doesn't mean you're healthy. So…

Lisa: Yeah.

James: ...the reason why you have to understand this balance of CO2 and oxygen is because you can't just understand CO2 as a waste product. It's still considered this a medical school. Yeah, you don't need it. But people who study this know that is—it's absolutely essential to have that balance, you don't want too much. But you don't want too little. You want your body to be able to operate at peak efficiency without having to go through all those compensations, right? To keep you there.

Lisa: Exactly. So when we breathe in, we.. When I say, we don't hold our breath, and I'm holding my breath for a long time, as long as I can. And then that's horrible urgency that comes up and you start to—your diaphragm starts to make that sort of hiccup thing. And this is actually the chemoreceptors in the brain, which is the area that is what I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that is measuring the CO2 levels more than anything in the blood, not the oxygen levels. And it's so, the CO2 going up, and then the body's going “Oop, time to breathe,” and it makes you do that, you know, hiccup thing in order to make you breathe. And when I'm doing my breathing exercises that I've learned from you, I let that reflex go for a while while I'm training my body and to be able to accept more carbon dioxide. And that will help me be a better athlete with a bit of a EO2 mix hopefully, and make me faster and so on. But it's the CO2, that's actually pushing the oxygen into the cells as well, isn't it? And that was another, a mind bender as well.

James: It's an exchange. So you can think about those red blood cells as this cruise ship, right? So and they're full of oxygen. And they cruise to areas where there are other passengers that want to get on this is CO2, and they exchange. The CO2 hops on as oxygen hops off. And this is just how it works. So that need to breathe, you're 100% right. A lot of people think, gonna exhale, hold my breath. “Oh, I don't have enough oxygen, I need to breathe.” No, that is dictated by rising carbon dioxide levels. And so many of us are so sensitised to CO2, that we can't hold our breath more than 10 seconds without going.

But they've done a study with athletes. And they found that to very comfortably hold your breath, over 25 seconds, 89% of those athletes will not have any breathing dysfunction. So this is a great practice to do. And this is why this is used in so many different breathing techniques for so long. The ancient Chinese were doing breath holds. Pranayama ancient Hindus were doing breath holds for thousands of years—is to exhale softly. And to hold your breath calmly. You don't want to be struggling and feeling your diaphragm moving. Just calmly, when you feel a little teaspoon of discomfort. You breathe and you calculate how long that is.

Don't look at this as a competition. I know that there's a lot of people out here. No, you can compete later. So what you want to do is to get your CO2 tolerance higher, because by having a higher amount of CO2, which is really a normal amount of CO2, your body can operate better. You will have more circulation. Oxygen will detach more easily. And when you're doing endurance sports, this is what you want. You don't want to use energy for things you don't have to use energy for. You want to be burning clean and tight. And that's what this allows you to do.

Lisa: This is about efficiency isn't and maybe you're saying that the average person is breathing 12 to 18 times a minute, on average. And ideally, we should be around the five and a half or six times a minute would be ideal. “So breathe light to breathe right” was one of the catchphrases that stuck in my head. And that's my trigger for all over breathing again. And so it's actually slowing down our breathing rate and not increasing the volume so much as diaphragmatic breathing. So using the deep, lower lobes of our lungs to actually get the breath end and doing it a lot slower. And why are we all you know, doing it 12 to 18 times a minute and overbreathing? Which is yeah. It is...

James: Sometimes a lot more than that. I mean, I've talked to clinicians who see people breathing 25, 30 times a minute just and they've been doing this for decades, and their bodies are just destroyed.

So it's, these things become a habit after a while and our body gets used to that cycle of compensation. And we start acknowledging this is normal. We started thinking having migraines is normal, having cold toes and cold fingers all the time is normal, being exhausted all the time is normal. None of this is normal. And especially if you look at modern populations of what's considered normal now, I mean, what 15% of Americans have diabetes, 25% have sleep apnea, 10% have autoimmune like, what is going on here? And that this is just accepted that, “Oh, just you know, I've my diabetes...”

Lisa: Aging.

James: ...my drugs. So anyway, I'm getting off track here. You when this becomes a habit, again, compensation different than health. And a wonderful practice to try is to breathe in at a rate of about five to six seconds, and breathe out at around that same rate. I put in the book 5.5 yet, but then people have been writing me, saying, 'I'm a half a second off'. Oh, my God. So now I'm saying anything in that range. And if that's too difficult for you, slow it down, go three seconds in three seconds out. It's perfect.

This is not a competition. This is about acclimating your body. So we can't breed this way all the time, that's going to be impossible. But whenever you become aware of your breath, that you're breathing too much, you can bring your breath back by breathing this way and recondition it. And the point of all these exercises is not to think about them. You want to do them often enough, that you're always breathing through your notes that you're always breathing lightly and slowly.

And that range of diaphragmatic movement, especially for athletes, I cannot tell you how essential this is, when you're breathing too much. Okay, here's what's happening, you're breathing up into your chest, which is extremely inefficient. There's more blood further down in your lungs, so can participate much more, much better in gas exchange. But you're also doing something else. You're taking air into your mouth, your throat, your bronchi, bronchioles, none of which participate in gas exchange yet do you bring it in? You go? I'm using maybe 50% of that breath.

If you slow down with the same volume, six laters a minute, to about six or seven breaths, right? Per minute, your efficiency goes up 35%. 35%. And if you're not gonna make a difference, you're running for five hour days. You're crazy. If you look at Kipchoge, check out how he's breathing, you know, an hour and a half, extremely light. He's completely in control, you can hardly see his chest. And he is in the zone.

Sanya Richards-Ross was the top female sprinter in the world for 10 years, check out how she's breathing through the nose in control, destroying everyone else and all of our competitors. So it takes us a while, which is why people don't, you're going to see a decrease in performance when you switch. Okay, guaranteed that it's gonna to go down. If you stick with it, it's gonna go up. I don't want to say that it's true for everyone. But I would say 95% and the breathing experts, the elite trainers I've worked with have told me 100% of the people they've converted, their performance goes up and the recovery is cut by half.

Lisa: Wow. And then I mean, who the hell doesn't want that as an athlete, you're fighting for 1%. So when we're talking, no such mess of possible changes that don't rely on your genetics and don't rely on you know, things that you can't control anyway. And like, for me, transitioning has been hard. I'll be honest, because I was completely congested all the time. And that's why I'd heard that nasal breathing because that’s the next thing we'll discuss that nasal breathing was very, very important for a number of reasons. I didn't really understand why. But I was like, well, I can't breathe through my nose is just blocked the whole time. And I don't have a show on hell of doing that. So well.

Well, I'll carry on doing my breathing. And then when I learn how to decongest my nose and sometimes it will take me two or three breaths. And the first time the first couple of weeks when I was doing it, my nose was running and I wasn't getting anywhere and I'm like, this is not working. But I pushed through that phase. And now I can run for like a team case at a fairly good pace, completely nasal breathing, if I do the warm up phase properly, if I go out the door and just try and do it straight out, the gate won't work, I need to do the walking, holding my breath, and get that cleared first, and then I can get into my training. And then I can hold it in the first 10 minutes, I'm still finding it a little bit like I want to breathe with my mouth, but that instinct is there. But I'm slowly training myself into that system.

And saying, I can actually, you know, I can actually run for a good hour just through my nose without any problems. And I've also not done the high-intensity. So I backed off the super high-intensity, because I know I'm automatically going to open my mouth when it gets to that. So while I'm in this transition phase, I'm not doing anything beyond that sort of aerobic capacity level. And I think I need this just to adapt. So these are huge types of people listening out there, if you are congested, and you think, well, this is all well and good guys, but there's no way in hell that I'm going to be able to breathe through my nose. Think again, there is, it's just a matter of being taught how to do it. And that's a pretty simple couple of exercises that were, you know, that's in the book. It can really, really help us if you persevere through it.

And then I expect to see improvements and my VO2 max and all the rest of it. Now, let's talk a little bit about the reason why it has to be nasal breathing. And so it's not just about breathing slowly. We've talked about breathing slowly, we've talked about diaphragmatic breathing. We've talked about CO2 and the role that we don't want our CO2 levels too low in the body. Let's talk now about the whole. Where was I going James? Help me out. I've just hit a..

James: You wanted to talk about breathing, you want to talk about fitness, you want to talk about nasal breathing.

Lisa: I hit a moment. So nasal. So we want to understand the physiology of the nose and why the nose is what we want to be breathing with rather than our mouth.

James: So I want to mention a few things. A few more things about running. This may seem overkill, but just a couple of points. So what I've heard from various instructors, Patrick McKeown is a world renowned breathing therapist, top got Brian Mackenzie the same thing. Never work out harder than you can breathe correctly. So if you're entering the zone, your mouth is open, slow it down and build your base and work up from there. Sometimes it took Dr John Douillard took him six months to fully acclimate. But once you get there, you are going to find a power in yourself that you did not know existed.

And this has been proven time and time again. When Carl Style was working with the Yale running team and the US Olympic running team. He said that these people suffered way more sicknesses, respiratory problems, asthma, COPD than anyone else. And he said, “They push through it because they're competitors. They're gonna push through it.” A complete mess. So there has to be a slight shift and thinking of like, you have to accept your performance is going to go down for a little bit.

Right now's a good time to do that. We're still in a pandemic. So you know, once things open up, you'll be kicking everyone's ass. And that's not a bad thing. But just know that this is a wave. This is a process. So the reason why you want to be doing this, we'll get to nasal breathing now is I will bring on my guest. He's been waiting over here patiently. Steve, for the people who aren't watching this, I'm holding up a cross section of a human skull. You can see the nose right here. When you breathe through the nose, you're forcing air through this labyrinth.

It's so similar to a seashell. It's called the nasal concha. So seashells have their shells this way to keep invaders out to keep pathogens out. Right? Our noses serve the exact same function. This is our first line of defence. So when we breathe through our nose, we're heating air which is important in cold climates where humidifying it, which is very important in dry climates. We're pressurizing it, we're conditioning it, we're removing particulate which is important, if you live in a city or basically anywhere else now. We're helping to fight more viruses. So there will be a smaller viral load breathing through the nose. And we condition this air so by the time it enters our lungs, it is properly conditioned to be more easily absorbed. When you're breathing through your mouth. You can consider the lungs as an external organ. Yeah, because they're just exposed to everything in your environment. So not only that, not only is this the most effective filter we have is it forces us to breathe more slowly. This is a self-regulating device. Yeah. How long did it take me to take that breath took a while? How long does this take? Yeah, nothing. So that's slower breath with that pressure allows us to gain 20% more oxygen breathing through our nose than equivalent breaths through our mouth. Again, if you think this is gonna make no difference to, you you're absolutely crazy. And this is simple science. You know, this isn't controversial stuff.

Lisa: No, this is simple science, but not well, knowing until your book came out and became a worldwide best selling book. Thank goodness because this stuff needs to be out there. And I'm called silly because I'm deep in the waves and in researching all the time. And by hacking and the latest longevity, and the goodness knows what I'm just always into the latest and greatest. And I'm constantly surprised at how you know that some fantastic information never sees the light of day, because of the systems that are in place, or traditions and laws and stuff. And it's like, wow, we have to get this information out there.

And this is one of those times when I'm thinking thank goodness, someone has put this into a book that's readable for people to understand the science without having to do such a deep dive themselves. And I think that that's really important. And that nasal, you know, nasal breathing. Also, it does another thing that I found really, really interesting was all about the nitric oxide. Can you explain what nitric oxide is and what it does in the body and why the nose is so important in that regard?

James: Nitric oxide is this amazing molecule that our bodies produce that plays a central role in vasodilation. Having more nitric oxide will decrease your chances of having a stroke, will decrease your chances of having a heart attack. It will increase circulation to your brain. I mean, I can go on and on here. It's no coincidence that the drugs Sildenafil also known as viagra, guess what it does, it releases nitric oxide in your body. That's how it cleans. Yeah, we get six times.

One study showed that we get six times more nitric oxide breathing through our nose than we do through our mouth. And if we hum we get 15 times more nitric oxide. So this has an incredible effect on the body and especially now there are 11 clinical trials right now where they're giving patients with COVID. Guess what? Nitric oxide. And apparently, according to Nobel Laureate, Louis Ignarro, oh, it's working wonderfully well in these. Studies are going to be out soon. I heard something. My brother in law's an ER doctor, my father in law's a pulmonologist. So we talk all about this stuff. And the vast majority of the people suffering the worst symptoms of COVID are people with chronic inflammation.

And as an opposite, very observational study. There are also mouth breathers. Yeah. And this was known 100 years ago, they were saying 75 to 80% of the people with tuberculosis are mouth breathers, chronic mouth breather. So there's been no official study on this just this is just observational stuff. Don't go write me about this, that your nasal breathing got COVID. It can happen.

Lisa: Can happen still, we're not saying that.

James: It's to me, but we know that can happen. But we also know something else. That breathing through the nose will help you defend your bodies so much more effectively, against viruses. And this is what Louis Ignarro again, he won a Nobel Prize. So listen to that guy, if you're not gonna listen...

Lisa: Yes and I've actually I've heard Dr Ignarro speak a number of times, and I'm hoping I can get him on my podcast to actually just to talk a whole session on nitric oxide and what he discovered, because he he won a prize for discovering this, this gas if you like in the body, because nobody really understood what it was or how it operated.

And it is being used for Viagra. And the reason it works for that is that it expands and dilates the blood vessels, but that's what's actually doing it and all parts of our body. And therefore when we're doing this nasal breathing, and we're getting more of that nitric oxide and I mean, a lot of the athletic supplements that you can get now in your corner supplement store are about, you know, drinking beetroot juice or whatever increases your nitric oxide. So this is another way to get at an info for you athletes out there. You want better performance, you know, a lot of my athletes are on beetroot juice and things like that. Just nasal breathing is another way of doing that. You know, so that's a really big piece of the puzzle, I think.

James: And those don't work. They certainly work but the key was so much of this just like with a key with oxygen. You don't like, go and get a bunch of oxygen for five minutes, then walk away so I'll fix them. You want to constantly be producing this stuff. So beet juice, you know what we'll work for a short amount of time. But to me, it seems like a much better idea to use something that we're naturally gifted with to use our nose. And to constantly be having a body that can constantly produce a healthy healthy level of nitric oxide. I drink beet juice.

I'm a big fan of that, the nitrates and other vegetables can help release more nitric oxide. Great stuff, right? But nasal how often can you be drinking beet juice, you don't want to be drinking that 10 times sugar in it.

Lisa: No. There's a lot of sugar in it.

James: There’s a lot of sugar in it and you know, occasionally is great, but there's other ways of doing this. And you know, I think our bodies are the most powerful pharmacists on the planet and that's been shown so why not try to focus on your body and health a little bit? Well last thing I want to mention that I just find, is so frustrating here in the US is all this talk of COVID all this talk of you know wear a mask, which I'm a believer in that stay at home. I'm a believer in that. Zero talk about not eating four double cheeseburgers a day.

Lisa: Hey, mean.

James: Ola, like getting your health and breathing through your nose. like where's that conversation? Getting vitamin D, getting vitamin C. And so anyway, we've seen what the government's you guys have a much more progressive government, let me tell you, we're so jealous of it. But now we have the whole...

Lisa: We’ll be a medical society, though there's nothing. It's not that late. But yeah, and I've had a number of episodes, I've just done a five part series on vitamin C, and intravenous vitamin C, and cancer, and sepsis. And, you know, the whole gamut in the problems there. In this, every single doctor has said to me too, when it comes to COVID, why aren't we building up our immune system so that we don't get people in our ICU on ventilators? You know, so that we don't get to that point, or we have less people and, you know, that just seems like a no brainer to me, but we're still promoting eating crap and drinking crap. And, you know, and not taking into account. It's, yes, I mean, the vaccines and all that, but how about we just take a little bit of self-responsibility we might not have as bad if we do get it.

You know, like I've got a mum. I've just written a book called Relentless that my listeners know about and it was about rehabilitating my mum back from an aneurysm four and a half years ago, where she hit massive aneurysm. Hardly any higher function, I was told, like, should never do anything. Again, I spent four and a half years rehabilitating her and she's completely normal. Again, she's driving the car, she's walking, jogging, everything's fine. And this is why I've ended up doing what I do, because I'm very passionate, because none. And I mean, none of this was offered in the standard medical system that we were in. They were great at the surgeries, they were great in the crisis.

But when it came to rehabilitation, there was just nothing there, and so I discovered all of these things. And one of the passions I have is just staying one step ahead of here and giving her the next thing now she's 79 years old, I want to keep her healthy. So when COVID threatened us, you know, I've, you know, got over there in the corner, my hyperbaric oxygen chamber, my ozone over the air, and, you know, you name it. I've got it so that if it does come, we prepared as prepared as we can be. And that is a good approach, I think prevention, rather than waiting for the disaster, and then trying to pick up the pieces at the end of the day. You know?

James: Yeah, and I just want to be clear, and I know that you're saying the same thing here. There's, doctors in my family that practice Western medicine who've helped people, when I get a car accident, last thing I want is acupuncture. I want to go to the ER and have somebody say, “Sir, I break a bone. I'm not doing pranayama breath work, I'm going to go and get a cast.” But about rehabilitation. This is 100% true, because it costs a lot of money.

There's no way a system can support full rehabilitation. And one thing that I've heard from almost every expert in the field, whether it's a professor at a university, or an MD, or a nutritionist, or whatever is they believe, this isn't my view. This is their view. I want to be objective here but they believe that there's a reason people aren't talking about breathing again. It's, there's no money in it. There's a money. Oh, why the US government isn't saying “Don't go to McDonald's today.” That's going to shut the economy down. So the good news about this is people who are interested want to take control of their health. There are now other means of getting information from people who have studied this stuff, people who are into scientific references, who are looking at science in a real objective way.

And so I view this thing, hopefully, this is going to be a lesson we can all learn then that we can acknowledge how incredible the human body is, how we become susceptible to illness, and how to better defend ourselves in the future.

Lisa: I'm just so on board with all of that. And I think it's our right and this is a problem we do. You know, we love Western medicine, they do some brilliant things. I love naturopathic medicine, I love alternative, complementary, whatever you integrate, or whatever you want to call it.

We've all got deficits, and we've all got blind spots, and every single piece of this. And it's about bringing the whole lot together, and not letting money rule the world. I think is, if we can ever get to that point, that would be fantastic because it is at the moment. And there's a lot of things that are being hindered, like things, simple things like breath work, like stress reduction, like intravenous vitamin C's, like things that don't, nobody can make money at, or hyperbaric oxygen is not going to make millions for anybody. So it's not getting out there, that information is not getting out there. And it needs to be out there.

We got I reckon we could talk for days, the job's because we were obviously on the same track. But I wanted to touch on a couple of areas. One was the whole skeletal muscle record of our ancestors and our facial, you know, our whole facial development and why that's part of the problem and the food problem, the mushy food that we eat today. And then remind me to talk briefly about the immune system and all this inveigled the vagus nerve and stuff. So let's start with though, with the skeletal record, and the difference between our ancestors and how we are today.

James: So early on in my research, I started hearing these stories about how humans used to have perfectly straight teeth and I don't know if you're like me. I had extractions, braces, headgear, you name it, every single person I knew had the same thing. It was never if it was just went this is what how it was done. At wisdom teeth removed. If you think about how weird that is, you're like, why are we removing teeth? From our mouths? Why are teeth so crooked? Where if you look at any other animal in the wild, they all have perfectly straight teeth. And what I learned was that all of our ancestors, before industrialisation, before farming, any hunter-gatherer all had perfectly straight teeth. So I went to a museum and looked at hundreds of skulls, and they all stared back at me, these perfectly straight teeth. Completely freaked me out.

They had these very broad jaws, wide nasal apertures forward, growing powerful faces. So if you have a face that grows this way, and you have a mouth that's wide enough for your teeth, you have a wider airway. Having a smaller mouth, you have less room to breathe. And this is one of the main reasons so many of us struggle to breathe, we have upper airway resistance syndrome, sleep apnea, snoring, and so many other respiratory issues is because there's less room in there. And what happened is this came on, in a blink of an eye with industrialised food in a single generation.

People went from having perfectly straight teeth, wider nasal apertures, to having crooked teeth and smaller mouths and a different facial profile. And this has been documented time and time again. Yet I had learned in school, which for me, it was zillion years ago that this was evolution-meant progress we're getting we're always getting younger, you're getting taller, we're getting better, look around the day and ask yourself if that's true, it's complete garbage. And then I went back and looked at the real definition of what evolution means. All it means is change and you can change for the better, or for the worse. And humans, as far as our breathing concern is concerned, are changing very much for the worse.

Lisa: Wow. And so we're, I mean, I'm saying I grew up have had so many extractions and teeth completely crooked and a tiny little mouth and all of those sort of problems that you're describing. So what was it that their ancestors did differently? So it was just the food being not we not chewing as much was that basically? Yes, like that's that was a real chain game changer for us when the industrialisation happened and we got mushy food.

James: There were many inputs, chewing is the main one. So when you live in an extremely polluted environment, sometimes your nose can get plugged, right? You start breathing through your mouth, that can create respiratory problems, but if you breathe through your mouth long enough, your face grows that way actually changes the skeletal picture of your face. So that's another input improper oral posture is what that is called, but it's for when you're younger chewing is so essential and it starts with breastfeeding.

There were no Gerbers food. I don't know if you have that out there, but there were no, like, soft foods. Just a few 100 years ago. So if you think about it, so now we're eating the soft processed foods right out of the gates. We're going, we're being fed on a bottle, soft processes. All of our mouths are too small and too crooked. So this chewing stress starts at birth. They've done various studies looking at kids who were bottle fed versus those who are breastfed.

When you're breastfed, your face pulls out your mouth, gets wider because it takes a lot of stress to do. Two hours a day, like every day, every two hours, you're doing it. And literally, and I've talked to parents who had twins, I just talked to a lady yesterday who bottle fed one did love not want to be breast fed breast fed the other. They look totally different. One has crooked teeth, one has autoimmune problems. One has swollen tonsils, the other doesn’t. So that is anecdotal.

But there's been studies in the 1930s they did tons of studies into this. So I'm a dude, I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone they breastfed people for that is not my point yet. But some people just can't. But I think it's important to acknowledge that the physics of how this works. And after that, if you have bottle fed a kid that's fine. But they need to start eating hard foods baby led weaning, this is what needs to happen to develop that proper jaw to develop that proper airway.

And even if you don't do that, if you then go to soft foods, and your kid is two to three years old, and it's snoring or sleep apnea, which is so common now it's so tragic, because that leads to neurological disorders, ADHD, again. This isn't crazy New Agey. This was at Stanford, there's 50 years of research on this from the top institution here. So there are direct links between those things, but luckily we have technologies now that can help restore to the mouth to the way it was supposed to have been before industrialisation. They actually widened the mouth of these small little kids, and open their airways, and it drastically improves their health.

Lisa: Today so it's palatal expanders that you you tried out and actually isn't even as an adult was you developed I remember it was at eight coins worth of new bone in your in your face and in a year or something crazy so we can still so if you've missed about if you've not received your kids or your you didn't get that yourself or whatever, it's not all over there is things that you can start doing even starting just to chew now like that to eat some carrots and whatever you know, whatever hard foods you can find to actually use those that powerful joy in order to make it stronger.

It's just like every other muscle in the body isn't it? And when we're mouth breathing to our remember you saying or the muscles here get lax and flattered and just like any other muscle that we're not training, if we're if we're going to mouth open all night and we're you know, then we're causing those muscles to be lax and over time that that leads into sleep apnea and things as well can do. So yeah, so this is something that we can practically get a hold on now even if it's a bit late for you and I think.

James: Yeah, I talked to my mum I was bottle fed after like six months my mum was like six months is a long time when I was growing up bottle fed soft foods industrialized crap my off intel I was you know 25 and it discovered these things called vegetables. But you know, so so this isn't pointing the finger at anyone we were sold this story by our governments that said you shouldn't eat mostly refined grains, eat your Cheerios, eat your bread, or crema wheat eat your oatmeal like that this is eat your sugar, that's good. Eat your chocolate milk, you know, so we have knowledge now we know the folly of our ways.

But the one thing that was inspiring to me this is easier to do, when you've got a developing kid quickly growing it, you can set the foundation and their face will grow around like their faces grow different. It's just, it's beautiful to see how the body forms to its inputs. So I, you know, youth was several decades ago for me, for far too long. I was a child of the 70s and 80s. Right? Yeah, we thought I thought once you're in middle age, you're completely screwed. What can you do, but that is just a convenient excuse for people to say, “Oh, it's genetics. Oh, I inherited this.”

Like genes turn on but they can also be turned off and so I wanted to see what how I could improve my airway health in a year and so I took a CAT scan, and I did proper oral posture, you're 100% right when, when you're just eating soft, mushy food in your mouth is open. All of those tissues can grow really flabby just like anywhere else on your body. But if you exercise them if you exercise the jaw, the strongest muscle in the body, you know, for its size, the tongue, extremely powerful muscle, you exercise these things, they get tone like anything else. And this can help open your airways. So this is just an anecdote, this was my experience, it'll probably be different for other people. But I did a number of these things.

And a year later to the week, I took another CAT scan, and the results were analysed by the Mayo Clinic, which is one of the top hospitals here. And they found that I increased my airway size about 15 to 20%. In some areas, and I can't tell you just as a personal story, it has absolutely transformed my life because I can breathe so much more easily through my nose. At night. I am silent. I didn't snore before but I was knowing that my wife would always tell me, totally silent now. And of course I am because I have a larger airway, things are more toned air can enter more easily.

Lisa: Is it easy to find palace expanders are these like any a couple of dentists in the world doing this sort of stuff?

James: Not everyone needs palatal expansion. I've gotten so many hundreds of emails of people, you know how we are, it's like, what's the latest thing, oh, there's a new pill, there's a new device. Oh, I get it, that's gonna solve all my problems. So they can really help people who need it just like surgical interventions. For people who have severe problems in their nose are a huge help. They're transformative. What I found is a lot of people don't need that. And what I firmly believe is start slow, start low, see what your body can naturally do. If after six months, you're like, ‘I'm still not this isn't working,’ go see someone you know, and take it from there.

But palatal expansion absolutely works for people who really need it, but you would be amazed by just doing something called oral-pharyngeal exercises. There was a study out in chest, which is one of the top medical journals, you know, they found this significantly cut down on snoring, not lightly, significantly. And all it is, is exercising the tongue, roof of the mouth, proper oral posture, just working out this area. Toning it, of course, that's gonna help you if this is flabby and hasn't been to..

Lisa: The gym for your mouth.

James: That's what it is. And I view that world, there's a whole separate school called myofunctional therapy that is helping people do this, which is so beneficial. They focus mostly on kids, but they also work with adults. And this is what they do. They are the instructors, the gym instructors, for your mouth and for your airwaves. And I strongly recommend people looking that up, there's a bunch of instructionals for free on YouTube, you can go that route as well.

Lisa: Oh, brilliant, we'll link to some of those on your website. And, you know, I get people those resources. It's just, it's just amazing and fascinating stuff. And who would have thought this conversation would go so deep and wide, I wanted to just finish up then with talking about the immune system and stress reduction and vagus nerves and all of us area too, because, you know, me included in this and most people are dealing with, you know, massive levels of stress, and breathing can I've, since I've read your book, and I was really, you know, quite aware of how to bring my stress levels down and movements and the importance of you know, yoga and all those sorts of things.

I've had that piece of the puzzle sort of dialed in, if you like, but the breathing exercises and actually calming the nervous system down within minutes. Now I can fall asleep in seconds. And you know, what seconds is a bit exaggerated but minutes, and I can I can take myself from being in this emotionally, my god and i tend to be like that because I'm like, you know, busy, busy, busy. And then go, “Hey, I'm spinning out of control. I've lost control of my breath. And I hear myself and I pick myself up on it now.”

And I go and do two minutes of breathing exercises. That's you know if that's all I can afford to do, and I can switch into parasympathetic now, that's been gold. Can you just explain why the heck does doing this slow light breathing diaphragmatically stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system and the vagus nerve from what's actually going on there?

James: Sure. So what people can do now is take a hand and you can place it on your heart. And you can breathe into rate of about three seconds and try to breathe out to about six to eight seconds, just whatever's comfortable. Now, breathe in again. 123 and exhale. And as you're exhaling out very softly, you're going to feel your heart rate, get lower and lower. And lower. So when you are exhaling, you're stimulating that parasympathetic side of your nervous system, our breath can actually hack our nervous system function.

And by exhaling more, and taking these long and fluid breaths, you can trigger all of those wonderful things that happen when you're parasympathetic. You reduce inflammation very quickly. You send signals to your brain to calm down. You actually change how your brain is operating the connectivity before the between the prefrontal cortex and the emotional centers of the brain changes when you slow your breathing.

So throughout the day, if you want to remain balanced, you take those soft and easy light, low breaths, to account of whatever's comfortable, three, four, even up to six, and six out. But if at some times you feel “My stress levels are starting to increase. I'm feeling my mind slip. I'm making rash decisions.” Start extending the exhale. An exercise I like to do is inhale to about four, exhale to six, you don't have to do it that long. Inhale, two, three, exhale to five, whatever's comfortable, as long as that exhale is longer, you're gonna feel your body slowing down.

And if you don't believe me, all you need to do is get your heart rate variability, monitor your pulse oximeter and take a look at what happens after 30 seconds of slow, focused breathing. And you will see this transformation occur in your body, if that can happen in a couple minutes, what's going to happen to you after a couple of hours of taking control of your breathing, or a couple of days, or a couple of months.

I'll tell you what's going to happen. I talked to dozens and dozens of people who have fundamentally transformed themselves through nothing more than breathing. I want to mention again, I'm not promising this is going to work for everyone for everything. But it needs to be considered as a foundation to health.

Lisa: And you need to stick at it for a little bit. And you know, I do my HIV monitoring every morning before I get out of bed and do my breath holding exercises and look at my boat score from Patrick McKeown. And you know, all that sort of stuff. Before I even put my feet on the floor, and I yeah, I can control my heart rate to a degree just through my birth weight. So I know this works. And I know that when I do a longer exhale from that, and compared to the inhale, immediately, I just feel a bit more calmer, and a bit more in control.

And it's reminding myself and this is the trick because we, when we're in the middle of work, and we've got meetings and phones are going and emails are coming at us, and it's like the “Lions are chasing me.” And it's been trying to remember to breathe in. Bring yourself down and calm yourself down. And just take that couple of minutes many times a day, you know, depending on how stressful Your life is. And in doing that on a regular basis, over time will have massive implications. Because we're talking here, your digestion. You digest food better if you're in a parasympathetic state versus a sympathetic, your immune system.

Again, coming back to COVID in that conversation, you're going to be improved, you know, your hormone balance. Yeah, just to fix everything, the way your, the brain waves, all of these things are going to be affected by your stress levels. And what is the easiest quickest way to reduce your stress? You breathe. So I think you know, that's a that's a really, really top tip. This just before we wind up and I've taken enough of your time, James but I you did in the, towards the end of the book, you went into some extreme super breathing practices, which because I was like, wow, okay, because I you know, read all about Wim Hof and looked at his breathing techniques.

And I was like, wow, how how does that work, then? Because I'm over breathing when I'm doing that. How does that work? What is there a specific time when that type of breathing or the extreme breathing one pops just one of them? But you know, is there a reason to be doing that type of extreme breathing stuff? Or can it help? Or is it just for crazy like good, crazy, but crazy.

James: Seems so counterintuitive, after learning about all these benefits of breathing less and breathing lightly, to then practice something where you're breathing like this. Yeah, and I was like, What is going on here? These are two completely opposite things. But think about those breathing practices like going to the gym. You're not going to go to the gym for 24 hours a day you're going to destroy your body, but going to the gym for half an hour and working out going to the gym for an hour and working out says huge benefits to so these breathing practices are all about working out the body and working out the respiratory system and working out your stress.

Okay? So they purposely stress you out. A lot of people think “I don't want to stress that, why do I want to do something that stresses you out?” The point is, they teach you to control your stress, you consciously bring stress on, and then you consciously turn it off. And this hormetic stress, these short bursts of stress are so beneficial to our bodies, because we are not meant to be sitting on soft sofas and soft beds, eating soft foods, watching soft TV programming all day, we're meant to work out sometimes. And that's what these are so effective for doing. Some people find them jarring if they haven't done any breath work.

So I suggest people start with that foundation of nasal breathing, breathing, awareness, breathing slowly and all that. But for some people for whom nothing else's work, no other drug has worked. I'm talking about people with autoimmune diseases, rheumatoid arthritis, even amass of psoriasis. I mean, the list goes on and on. I've seen this time and time again. And the science is very clear that this hormetic stress, doing this in a controlled way, allows you to decrease inflammation for the other 23 and a half hours of the day, which is exactly what the parasympathetic state does.

So I love what you call Wim Hof Method, he's the first person to say I talked to Wim semi often I love what he's doing. He's such a cheerleader, he changed people's lives. Love the guy. He knows this isn't his method. This is 1000 year old stuff, you can call it Sudarshan Kriya, you can call it pranayama. Whatever all these methods are so similar, because they do the same thing. They have you breathe very intensely. And then they have you hold your breath or not breathe at all. And then they have to breathe very intensely.

So this is the interval training, you see what's going on here. So this is HIT training for the respiratory system. I'm a huge fan of it. I use it as much as I can. I've seen big benefits to it. And it so happens to be right down the stream from me at University of California, San Francisco, Dr. Alyssa Apple, who is the expert in telomeres, had a famous book out a couple years ago. She's now studying this stuff, breathing and arthritis. And her study is coming out next month. I'm talking to her next, next week. So this stuff in, in my view, especially with athletes, the people getting the calls now are people that are focusing on breathing Brian Mackenzie elite in stride, length is Brian. He's doing this is all he's doing now.

Lisa: Yeah, these guys are just on the next level. And when I first read the book, and I you know, read Patrick's too. And I was like, hang on, I don't get this because I was into the Wim Hof stuff. And I was like, yeah, I'm doing that sort of stuff. And but, you've just really clarified that for me, actually put that into sort of mistake, that part of it. That it is, like the intense interval training. So you don't want to be doing this 24 seven, you know, you want to do this with a specific purpose for a specific short period of time to create a stress just like you do when you go in train your backside off, and then you come back and you recover from that and it just that push and pull.

And on you're so right, like, we and this is an issue in our, in our world now we are so comfortable. We are so warm all the time and cozy, you know, in our clothes, clothes and their cozy houses and our cozy cars and now we never get outside and we need as human beings to be pushed and pulled and out in up and down and have challenge, you know, challenge both mentally and physically. I think to keep ourselves strong and we don't, that's when we you know, fade away and have problems and get sick and all those sorts of things. So I'm a big, you know, mean, pushing the limits is the name of my podcast for crying out loud. You know.

James: I actually talked to Patrick quite often, we correspond all the time. He and Anders Olsson told me at the beginning they're like, Oh, this heavy braid. This is bad. This is bad. Yeah, Patrick's come around now. Worst wins book. He's like, Wow, this is great stuff. So he's starting to incorporate this stuff. Because again, it's Westerners, it's we always think, it's needs to be one or the other. You're the slow breather, you're the fast breather, your paleo or your vegan, your kid. These things all have benefits to me. They're more tools in the toolbox to use at different times. And we're showing this these short periods of intense breathing can really be this pressure release valve for stress.

And I'd be surprised if someone does the Wim Hof Method or Tummo. I'd be surprised if anyone is feeling more stressed after that. I mean to me, I find this is a very powerful tool. I use it before sleep sometimes, man the second my head hits the pillow. I'm gone in about eight hours. And that's what you want. That's brilliant. And it's good to Yeah, that Patrick's saying that, that Toby and Patrick's coming on the show in a few weeks time, so I'll ask him about it. Because I, you know, like I've been fooled do I, you know, because I've been doing the Wim Hof stuff previously, and now I've like, all backed off of it.

But now I might have another crack at it again, and go a little bit deeper and just see if I can, you know, get to the next level. Because I mean, there's slow breathing for most of the time and certainly controlled in the in the training, and then there in the running and so on, is what you want to be doing most of the time, but we want these little stressors, these are medic stressors in order to improve and…

James: Guess how one breathes the rest of the time. He rolls through his nose. Yeah, really slowly. And he hums a lot. Increase nitric oxide. So this is everyone sees him as the maniac screaming at you to breathe, and they don't see him the other 23 and a half hours a day where he's very chill, you know? So this is again, it's not one or the other. It's able to look at the benefits of all these things, just like the benefits of all these different foods that pick out the ones that work for you and to use them.

Lisa: Excellent. I think that's a beautiful place to wrap it up. James, thank you so much for writing this incredible book, and for sharing your knowledge and spending so many years because I know this was a lot of years of research that went into this. Please everybody go out there and buy this book. Get the word out there, share it with your friends and family the links will be in the show notes. But James, where can people find you and in your book and where they best to get it?

James: My website is a good place to start. I've listed all of the scientific references because I know this stuff sounds completely wacko. You can see videos, you can see expert Q and A's with a Harvard professors. There's exercises from Johns Hopkins. All of this is free. And it's at mrjamesnestor.com. There's links to the book too, because the how of breathing is the easy part. It's to me I found the more interesting story was the, what does it do? Where does this come from? You know? In what ways can it help benefit us and that's what I focused on. I'm also on Instagram trying to get better at this social media crap. And I'm posting things related to only breathing there.

Lisa: Yeah, Instagram, you probably need to do a bit of Wim Hof before you jump on it because all the social media has drives me nuts too. But we have to do it. We live in this world. We do James, thank you so much. It's been an absolute honour to meet you. And I'm really, really grateful to you.

James: You have to promise in six months after continuing to nasal breathe and work out. I want to hear a full report on where your endurance levels are and your performance levels.

Lisa: You got it, maybe I'll be competing again with Lenovo. That's great. Thanks a lot for having me.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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No one is exempted from exposure to environmental pollutants. While this may sound worrying, there are steps, backed with scientific and empirical evidence, to rid our bodies of these harmful pollutants. However, there is still a lot of misinformation about detoxification that we need to uncover.

In this episode, Dr Bryan Walsh discusses the common perception about detoxification and explains the actual science behind it. He talks about the different phases of detoxification and its complexity. Dr Walsh also tackles the importance of excretion as a widely ignored aspect of detoxification in diets and weight loss programs. Detoxification may seem challenging to start, but it begins with getting to know your body and blood chemistry.

If you want to know more about the science behind detoxification, then this episode is for you!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

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Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn about the phases of detoxification. 2. What is the assessment criteria for detoxification? 3. What is the importance of context in detoxification?

Resources * Try out a Metabolic Detoxification Questionnaire here. Alternatively, you can look for other questionnaires by searching for ‘metabolic detoxification questionnaire’. * Detoxify or Die by Sherry A. Rogers * Fasting Mimicking Diet Program by Dr Valter Longo * Metabolic Fitness * Curious to start your detoxification? Try out the Walsh Detox Program!

Episode Highlights [04:47] How Dr Walsh Started Studying Detoxification * Dr Walsh was interested in health and fitness from a young age. He eventually ventured into massage therapy and became a fitness professional. * He took a postgraduate degree to become a naturopathic physician. * After his education, he felt that he had to study more to serve his patients better. * His goal is to connect conventional Western medicine and alternative medicine.

[09:56] Views on ‘Toxin’ and Detoxification * Dr Walsh cites some ridiculous notions surrounding detoxification. In the 80s, it used to be rehabilitation for addiction to alcohol and drugs until everybody started hopping on the ‘detox bandwagon’. * Xenobiotic or commonly known as ‘toxins’ is something foreign to the body that can cause damage in excess. * When water leaves the body in any form, water-soluble toxins leave as well. Meanwhile, the body still needs to turn fat-soluble toxins into water-soluble toxins to get rid of it. * Our bodies are naturally built to detoxify pollutants through biotransformation. * Listen to the full episode for an in-depth discussion on toxins!

[16:11] Categories of Pollutants * First is heavy metals. This category includes aluminium, arsenic and mercury, among others. * Second is persistent organic pollutants, which include phenol, dioxins and pesticides. * The last category is volatile organic chemicals (VOCs) that are usually inhaled. * In essence, pollutants are everywhere.

[17:41] Everyone Is Exposed * While everyone is exposed to pollutants, the levels may vary due to location and lifestyle. * For instance, Dr Walsh believes that athletes may be less toxic due to sweating during exercise. * Listen to the full episode to know the body’s pathways for getting rid of environmental pollutants.

[23:04] The Difficulty in Assessment Criteria * There are a lot of variables and testing methods to consider in assessing toxin exposure. * The fat biopsy is regarded as the gold standard test. However, because different body areas store different amounts of fat, there’s no consistency in the body. * Taking these tests can guide you to make different lifestyle changes. However, keep in mind that they cannot determine your body’s toxicity level quantitatively by an absolute number. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about the complexity of detox questionnaires.

[30:00] Nature of Pollutants * Toxin gets stored in a cell or area with low concentration. This is called the concentration gradient. * If there’s more toxin in the blood and less in the cell, it will get stored in the cell. * When fasting, you go into a catabolic state. Studies have shown that xenobiotics in the blood increase in this state. * All detoxes are cellular detox.

[33:43] The Phases of Detoxification * Phase 0 starts with the fat-soluble toxin entering the cell. * Phase 1 is the reaction with the addition of a hydroxyl group. * Phase 2 concerns conjugation reaction of adding methylation, sulphation and the like. * Finally, phase 3 is when excretion happens. * Tune in to the full episode for Dr Walsh’s analogies and a detailed explanation of each phase!

[42:06] The Three Pillars of Detoxification * The keys of detoxification are mobilisation, biotransformation and excretion. * Mobilisation is getting pollutants out of storage. * Biotransformation encompasses phases 1 to 3. * Excretion should take the toxin out of your body.

[47:34] Effects of Dieting * Dr Walsh recommends doing a weight loss program in conjunction with a detoxification program. * During periods of weight loss or catabolism, xenobiotic levels increase. * The problem with rapid weight loss and yo-yo dieting is the redistribution of toxins in the body without excretion.

[53:22] Nutrients and Detoxification * Being nutrient sufficient is enough to support phase 1. * Phase 2 is driven by amino acids. * Phase 3 can be blocked by three inhibitors: milk thistle, curcumin and green tea. However, note that the effects of these three inhibitors are based on its dosage and the context. * One protocol will not work for everyone; you have to look at the totality. Listen to the full episode for more details about nutrients and botanicals!

[1:05:00] The Nature of Symptoms * For Dr Walsh, thyroid dysfunction may be secondary to another issue. * Once symptoms show, you should consider if it is a protective reaction.

[1:11:32] Advice for Detoxification * Dr Walsh shares details about his detox course, including a practitioner-based programme and The Walsh Detox for the general public. * Your blood chemistry is essential in determining your detoxification programme.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘I’ll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life that are the most important things — relationships and love and how we try to study how the brain works — and I don’t think we have any idea’.

‘This is part of my problem with the industry is we can’t even decide on what a toxin is. . . So what I would suggest, the one that people are most talking about, that’s why I think environmental pollutant or environmental toxins make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind’.

‘They will test their blood, their urine and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it’s not in the blood, it’s not in the urine, but it is in the sweat’.

‘Everybody’s toxic. Everybody needs to detoxify. . . It’s not necessarily exposure; it’s we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, is it because of that or not? And so you can’t run around screaming everybody’s toxic because I don’t know that they are’.

‘And so it’s [toxins are] concentration gradient-based, which also means so that’s how it gets stored. If there’s more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that’s when it gets stored’.

‘There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘The body won’t release toxins if it’s not healthy enough, and it doesn’t think it can deal with them’. That’s not true’.

‘I’m against protocols; because one protocol will be brilliant for one and harmful for another same protocol’.

About Dr Walsh Dr Bryan Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for over 25 years and has been educating others in health for 20 of those years. When he isn’t teaching, he spends his time poring over the latest research and synthesising his findings into practical information for health practitioners to use with their clients. He has given lectures to members of the health care industry around the world and consistently receives positive feedback in his seminars and courses.

His online educational platform, Metabolic Fitness, helps health professionals to stop guessing and start knowing what to do with their patients.

Dr Walsh is best known for challenging traditional dogma in health and nutrition concepts, such as questioning current models of adrenal fatigue, glucose regulation, detoxification, mitochondrial dysfunction and more.

As such, he has been sought out to consult with multiple companies, academic institutions and wellness organisations. Dr Walsh is also a board-certified Naturopathic Doctor and has been seeing patients throughout the U.S. for over a decade.

Outside of his professional endeavors, you can find him spending time and having incredible amounts of fun with his wife, Dr Julie Walsh, and five children.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the science behind detoxification.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. And today I have just a super superstar for you, Dr. Brian Walsh, who's sitting in Maryland in the USA. Dr. Walsh is someone that I've followed for a long time and learned from. He is one of the great teachers in biochemistry and physiology. And today we are discussing detoxing very relevant to this time of the year. And this is all really next level information. Because it's all about detoxing, like what are the actual physiological steps of a detox process? And what is the latest and current research. This is not something you read in a two page magazine article detox type of thing. But this is the real deal with someone who really, really knows his stuff.

Now, Dr. Brian Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for many, many years. And he spends his time sort of poring over the latest research and synthesizing all of that information for the layperson to be able to understand. And he also lectures at Western States University in biochemistry. And as a healthcare professional, he's a doctor of naturopathic medicine. And he has an online educational platform called metabolicfitnesspro.com, where he helps other health professionals like myself, and many, many others, as well as lay people with his programmes and courses.

And we're going to be discussing today, as I said, detoxing, how to do it properly, when not to do it, what to be aware of if you are doing it. And he's you know—Dr. Walsh is someone who's really known for challenging traditional dogma in health. And he actually goes and does all the research, does deep deep dives into all of the clinical studies into PubMed, and then brings us the latest and information. So he's really someone that you want to have on your radar, someone that you want to know, if you want the latest and greatest in information.

I hope you're enjoying your Christmas time, by the time this episode comes out, Christmas will have been passed. And we're into the new year. And hopefully the world is on a new trajectory and that 2021 is going to be a hell of a lot better. And what better way to start the year than with a discussion around detoxing and getting your body in good shape for the year ahead. So without further ado, I'll be heading over to Dr. Brian Walsh.

And just a reminder too. If you want help with any health issues, if you are dealing with anything, please reach out to us lisa@lisatamati.com. You can reach me on email. If you're wanting information about our online run training programmes at Running Hot Coaching, want personalized run training, please do reach out to us as well. We just launched a new package that will be coming out in the next few weeks. So keep an eye out for that where we're going to be offering video analysis, as well as fully customized programmes and a session with me—all included in there in a package price. It's really really a no brainer. So if you want to find out about that, please reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com.

Of course our epigenetics programme is still open, if anyone wants to know and understand the genes—understanding everything to do with your genes, eliminating the trial and error for your body, understanding what foods to eat exactly, which areas you're predisposed to have problems with, how your brain functions, what your dominant hormones are all of this sort of great information. Please also reach out to us and we can put you in the right direction. We've done a few webinars already on our epigenetics programme. And in the coming weeks, we're also going to be having Dr. Ken McDonald on from PH-316, who's going to be going a little bit more deeper into this. So I hope you enjoy the session though for now with Dr. Brian Walsh. And we'll head over to him right now.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to the Pushing The Limits. This week, I am super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin. I have a man who I really, really admire. I love his work. He's got an incredible brain. Just absolutely mind-mind conversation we were going to have today. I have Dr. Bryan Walsh with me. Welcome to the show, Dr. Walsh.

Dr. Bryan Walsh: Thank you so much for being here.

Lisa: It's a really, really an honour to have you on. Dr. Walsh, you’re still in Maryland, in the States? Can you give us a bit of a background just on who you are and sort of a quick synopsis and your background as a physician, etc.?

Dr. Bryan: Well, yes, I guess I should say it all started out, I was very much into health and fitness, even at a young age, quite honestly. I became a fitness professional—that’s how I started. And then I did a lot of orthopaedic work, so that led me to massage therapy. So I did massage and I was a fitness professional. And the problem is my clients would ask me health advice. And here in the States—I'm a law-abiding citizen—I could have talked to them about nutrition and supplements, but I wasn't allowed to with those things that I did.

So then I looked—and there's something in the States, it's a naturopathic physician, naturopathic doctor. I know you guys have naturopathic there. They're a little bit different. It's a four year postgraduate degree. So you go to four years of university, and the traditional four years. And then you have your doctorate. That sounded really good to me because I was already into alternative health. I was devouring books, on health, on herbs, on homeopathy, everything in the health. And that was the umbrella for all these things that I was interested. And I thought, wow, that's great, perfect.

So I went through four years of that. Spent way too much money. But it's also where I met my wife. So that is money rally well spent. Yes. Although we both went to school there. So we doubled our debt, essentially, by marrying each other. But what we quickly realized is that it didn't really prepare us to do what we wanted to do. And it didn't take long. I was sitting in front of patients, and I honestly—I didn't think I know what I was doing. I didn't feel qualified. I spent all that money over the four years of school with great classes, but it sounded like all these great topics but...

And so that started me—and this is all to tell you this story— where I realized I had to teach myself everything, that I had to reteach myself physiology. I know we're going to talk about detox today. But how I stumbled upon that what I'll call is the truth about detox. And so where I am today is I believe in old medicine, I believe in the body heals itself. But Western science and Western medicine is incredible. I mean, we owe much of what we know about the human body, in terms of mechanisms and pathways and how herbs even work in the first place, to Western science.

So what I tried to do is bridge the best of both, is to take the alternative nutritional functional health world, which is great for some things but horrible in others, and combine that with conventional Western medicine, which is great in some things, but horrible in others, and I try to connect the two. So I hope that gives you much of...

Lisa: That’s brilliant.

Dr. Bryan: I love science.

Lisa: And I love the way you sort of combine the traditional or the alternative with the allopathic sort of model because they do both have good things, and they do both have problems.

Dr. Bryan: Absolutely. And I can tell you, I love science. But I'll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life—of the most important things, in relationships, in love, in health. We try to study how the brain works and I don't think we have any idea. We try to—we're doing genetic testing now, I don’t think… We talked about the microbiome, I don't think we know much of anything when it comes to these things. So, science is fascinating. It's so fun. It can occupy you for hours upon hours upon hours of reading and the rabbit hole of PubMed, but I don't think it will ever offer some of the answers.

So that's kind of where I live is that we live in this expansive universe full of all sorts of possibilities. But here on Earth, science really helps us a lot understand certain things, but it doesn't contain all the answers.

Lisa: It's a very humble approach. And I think a really good place to start because we know a lot, we don't know a lot more. But we have to sort of work with what we've got and the best knowledge. And this is something that I've really enjoyed out of like, I think I've devoured everything I could find on the internet of yours. And I must say sometimes, I'm like my brain is spinning, trying to keep up and it's fantastic. And I was talking to a colleague who's also really into you and he's got a master's in physiology and he said, ‘Well, I struggled, too, so don't feel bad’.

But you do have a way of putting things into analogies that I have just found absolutely fascinating. And today we're going to go into detoxing. And there is an analogy in this story that I've heard you speak of a couple of times that really went, ‘Aha, I get it now’. So definitely want to delve into that analogy. But so just to start with, with detoxing. Let's look at what detoxing in the public realm—if you like—in the popular—the magazines. People talk about detoxing a lot. And I think that we don't understand what detoxing is. So let's start there. What is a proper detox?

Dr. Bryan: So what you just described, that's the problem. It's a mess. I was just in the checkout line at the grocery store, two days ago. I even took a picture of my phone to send my wife and it was like, ‘A faster way to do a liver detox’, and it was some medical doctor. I thought, ‘I'm not even going to open that magazine. It's going to be garbage’.

You’re right. People say, ‘drink a little bit of lemon juice in the morning, and that's a great way to detoxify the body’. And then I was in the airport one day, and I saw these foot pads that you put on your feet to help pull toxins out of your feet. And then there's the foot pads, and there's colonics. And there's all these different things, and that's why conventional medicine doesn't believe any of this because you have these people saying, ‘Well, when you skin brush, then you're detoxifying yourself’, maybe, maybe not. But no wonder they think that we're a bunch of quacks because if you stand back and look at all that nonsense, it does look like quackery.

In the 80s, detox, the only detox there—unless you were like a hippie—in the 80s, was like a celebrity going through some kind of rehab for some kind of addiction, alcohol or drug addiction, then they would go through some kind of rehabilitation, so that was a detox. That was the only detox there was. And then all of a sudden everybody started getting on this detox bandwagon. And the thought is that we are bombarded with—we’re basically these toxic waste cesspools of disgusting that’s inside of our bodies, and the only way to get rid of it is to do these to detoxify.

Now, there's some truth to that, some truth. But our body is designed to—a better way to say detoxification is biotransformation, first of all. So there are two different types of we'll call—I don't even like the word toxins, quite honestly. You can call them xenobiotics, starting with it with an ‘x’. Xenobiotic means it's something foreign to the body. You can also call them environmental pollutants, environmental toxins, whatever you’re going to call it. Some people say synthetic, but that's not true because Mercury is toxic to the body in high amounts. So, for lack of better terms, we can call them toxins, xenobiotics or whatever. But they're things that are foreign to the body that in excess can cause damage.

There's essentially, for simplicity sake, two forms, there's water soluble, and there's fat soluble. Water soluble, by and large, I don't think we have to deal with too much, because our body is really good at getting rid of it. Our body is so much water already, we don't have to do anything to it. If we have access to something that's toxic, and it's water soluble, our body's pretty good at getting rid of it.

And when you look at the ways of getting rid of something, it's anywhere that water goes. So sweating, obviously, urinating, it's quite a bit of quite a water. In faeces, there's a small amount of water that gets expelled there. And even technically—and people have measured this but in tears or saliva, you can get rid of toxins too. So anything where water is leaving the body, then water soluble toxins are leaving as well. And I personally believe that those aren't much of a concern to us because our body... It's kind of like if you take a whole bunch of B vitamins. Technically, those can be toxic in high amounts but they're water soluble in your urine turns glow in the dark yellow if you take too much of that because your body is getting rid of it. Same with vitamin C or any of the water-soluble vitamins.

Interestingly—and I hadn't thought of this as a way of describing this, but the vitamins that they say to be careful with are the fat-soluble ones like vitamin A, D, and K because they can accumulate and then those are the toxic ‘vitamins’ if you look at conventional medicine. So fat soluble toxins, those ones are more of concern because they can get stored and the body has to work a little bit harder in order to get rid of them. In other words, you have to take something that's fat soluble, turn it into something that's water soluble, and then the body can get rid of it and all those pathways that we talked about.

So the body has built in detoxification or bio transformation processes—everybody says it's the liver but it's not. The enzymes and steps necessary for this are found in a number of tissues and in quite a bit. So, things that have exposure to the outside world, the skin has this disability, the liver does, the kidneys do, the lungs incidentally do, the testes in a guy does when we consider the location as exposure to the outside world more so than some of the internal organs. And we can go into the details of this but basically this fat-soluble toxin that can cause damage to the body gets metabolized or bio transformed, turned into a water-soluble toxin, if you will, a compound. And then is easily excretable in—again sweat, tears, saliva, urine, or a little bit in faeces. So yes, that's kind of a nutshell version of it, I think.

Lisa: Okay, so. So let's look quickly at what are toxins and what sort of a fix they have in the body? So we're talking things like your heavy metals, your Mercury's that you mentioned, your pesticides, your preservatives in your food, there's chemicals that were exposed to.

Dr. Bryan: So that's honestly—this is part of my problem with the industry is we can't even decide on what a toxin is because the toxin if you think about it, a toxin is something that could cause damage to the body. Right? So then you could say a reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress is a toxin, technically. Hormones, if you have too much of a hormone, can that cause damage to the body? It absolutely can. So, then all of a sudden is a hormone a toxin.

And so that's where we start to run into problems, is that we just throw out these terms like toxins. Well, what is that something that? Something that damages the body? Well, a hammer, if you hit me on the head is going to damage my body. Is that a toxin? Let's say, oh, it's internally. All right, well, so how about lipid polysaccharides from a gram-negative bacteria? That's an infection. Is that a toxin? Yes, it is. So that's our—aflatoxin, you have mould in your house. And so, it ends up being this really broad term that people have a hard time describing.

Now, so what I would suggest. The one that people are most talking about, that's why I think environmental pollutant, or environmental toxins, make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind. And there's three, let's just say major categories of that there's actually more. One would be things off the periodic table. So that's the heavy metals, by and large, so aluminium, arsenic, mercury, all those types. Even copper, copper is toxic. Iron is toxic.

Then there's—loosely the category that you can call persistent organic pollutants. And that's all the ones that get all the press, like this phenol and phthalates and dioxins and all those different things, pesticides. And then there's the ones that you could call them volatile organic chemicals, or VOCs, those ones are usually inhaled. So, you paint, you’re repainting your house, or your apartment and the smell that you get, or cosmetics or toiletries, cleaning products. If you buy a brand new piece of furniture and that off gassing, carpets. So those are the— mean, there's more, but those are the three major categories that I consider so... But then you consider where those come from, in the food that we eat, in the water that we drink, in the air that we breathe, it literally is everywhere.

Lisa: Yes. So we are toxic.

Dr. Bryan: Well, yes. We are. And I long time ago would say that we're all toxic, and everybody needs to detoxify. And I've tempered that a little bit because like for example, there's one published paper that suggests—well, okay, I should take a step back—everybody is exposed, everybody is exposed, period, end of story. To prove otherwise, I would need to see that proof.

Now, it's going to be different considerably, however, based on your location, where you live. In New Zealand versus America. Here in America, I'm in Maryland, but that's going to be a lot different. I'm near farmland. So, we might have exposure to pesticides, but not so much some of the other things that might have been more of an urban area. In New Zealand there’s other different things.

So also that depends on one's lifestyle. So me and my family largely eat organic food as much as possible. We use—I don't say green cleaning products, but we use better cleaning products than just the standard things. And so we probably have less exposure than somebody following a standard diet using standard toiletries, cosmetics, yes, and all those different things too. So, we all have exposure. Yes, that's it. I think I believe that's irrefutable.

Is it stored in all of us? And I'm going to go ahead and say yes, but to different degrees. For example, you said you're a professional athlete. You have sweat a lot more than the majority of people. There's also some really interesting evidence showing that exercise actually upregulates certain detoxification or bio transformation enzymes. So you might actually be more adapted to that.

Lisa: Another good reason to do it.

Dr. Bryan: Absolutely. You know what? It’s so funny, like, you know you're supposed to, but then you just see more and more reasons. And it does, it absolutely has been shown in papers, to upregulate certain detoxification enzymes. In addition to the fact that you're sweating more so than somebody who's sedentary. So, I haven't seen any literature on this, but I believe that most athletes are probably less toxic than the general public.

Lisa: The sweat is also a preferred pathway for some of the toxins to leave the body.

Dr. Bryan: If used badly, yes. The skin has been called the third kidney before, which is kind of a cute thing to call it. I mean, is it or is it not? I mean, it's not like you're urinating out of your skin. So that should be gross. Next time you sweat, think of that. No, but it's a major excretory organ.

And I will add this, there's some really interesting, really interesting scientific papers — small, unfortunately, not a lot of money in this industry to test this stuff. But they will take a group of people, and they will test their blood, their urine, and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it's not in the blood, it's not in the urine, but it is in the sweat.

Lisa: Exactly. Yes. The preferred pathway, yes.

Dr. Bryan: That's an indication that a) it's being stored and b)... Yes, whether it's a preferred pathway or not, what that means to me is that it's probably stored in the tissues. Because you think about the blood, the blood is circulatory and it's bringing things around. The kidneys are filtering the blood. So, if it's not in the blood, that makes sense, it's not in the urine. What that means is it's stored. It's if it's not coming out in the urine, that means it's not in the blood, that means it's stored in tissues. And so, it isn’t going out. So whether it's preferred by the body or not, I don't know. But that just means that it's right there, right close to the tissues.

Lisa: Yes, In coming out.

Dr. Bryan: Right close to the periphery, and it's coming out via the interstitial fluid and stuff surrounding itself. But here's another thing to consider, too, when you talked about the demographic of the population that listens to this is, while most athletes probably have less—I mean, when it gets a broad state, you can't say yes, might have less because of exercising, because of firing. But are they exposed to something more than might somebody else be?

So for example, if they're drinking out of plastic bottles that have been warmed up sitting in the sun all day, like might they have more excess pollutants...

Lisa: More BPA...

Dr. Bryan: ….these people are outside exercising in polluted area.

Lisa: Exhaust fumes.

Dr. Bryan: Exhaust fumes. I mean, you think about your respiratory rate when you're exercising, your respiratory rate is quite a bit higher than somebody who's sedentary. So then all of a sudden all those...

Lisa: And oxidative stress

Dr. Bryan: Yes, absolutely. So there's a lot of factors to consider for sure.

Lisa: Yes. So we've looked at—these are the broad categories of toxins. And yes, we're probably all toxic, and we need to be doing or thinking about doing a detox—I don't want to say protocol—but to thinking about it constantly detoxing. And you touched on the couple of studies here where they measure the sweat, they measure the urine, and so on, and they got different measurements for different things. That's one of the problems, isn’t it? The assessment criteria. Because obviously, if we're doing a detox, we want to be able to assess, are we actually getting—and when you dived into the literature of assessments in defining out which is the best—how do I see if I'm toxic? What did you find in the literature around all the assessments?

Dr. Bryan: So in the functional medicine world, there's no shortage of—well just tests in general and really attractive, good looking tests that when you look at them, you want to run them. Like, ‘Well, I would like to run this on myself. forget my patients or clients I want to run these tests’. The scientific validity on a lot of these tests is not there at all, despite what people might say or think.

Yes, so I'm not opposed to testing for toxins. But there's so many variables to consider, and the practitioners that are running them, I don't think are considering these. So I think a lot of people are using them—they're wasting their money on them because they're not considering all these variables. So, for example, the first question to ask is, ‘what tissue do you test’? Do you test the blood? Do you test the urine? There are hair tests. Technically, in the literature, they test fingernails for toxin exposure. There's so many different ways of testing–fat biopsy, you want to take a needle into your fats, take some of it out and test that.

And actually—I'll say since I said that—fat biopsies are considered to be the gold standard for internal toxic burden, and that would make sense if that's where they're stored. But the problem is, according to research—and this is done on humans, mind you—that different fat depots in the body store differing amounts of things. So, you might inject it into your, your, your butt fat, and find a whole bunch of one thing, and then you do it to your abdominal fat, and you come up with a higher amount of something else. So, if that's the gold standard, and you can't even have any consistency in the human body, then that's not going to be accurate, either. And if that's the gold standard, then that's not accurate, then none of them are going to be accurate.

So, the short version is there are some—I guess I'll say, like validated as much as you can questionnaire—subjective questionnaires that one can take and get an idea of how toxic they may or may not be. Now, it's not quantitative. It's quantitative in the sense that you get a numerical value for the score. But it's not quantitative, in terms of like, This is how toxic I am. I am 80% toxic out of 100’. It's just a subjective questionnaire. But if somebody were to take a questionnaire like this, and scores high...

Lisa: We've got a problem

Dr. Bryan: ...and then does a few detox rounds or whatever, for a few months, six months, nine months, whatever it is, and then does it again and their scores are lower, that's good enough to suggest that they're doing better. And what's interesting about some of these questionnaires, is they not only asks things like, ‘do you live around industry? Do you have exposure to petrol or to gas’? But your symptoms as well. And so it takes all of these considerations, like, ‘Yes, I live and work around a lot of chemicals, but I don't have symptoms’ versus somebody that has a whole bunch of symptoms that are associated with toxic exposure, but they don't live around them. So, it does—they really are comprehensive.

Lisa: I’d like to get a couple of the links to those if we could possibly see.

Dr. Bryan: And listen, it's free. That's the very nice thing. You don't have to spend 300 US dollars on some blood tests that may or not be accurate. And what people are really interested in is, ‘how toxic are you’? Well, if my surroundings and my symptoms suggest that I am, based on these questionnaires, that's good enough for me. And as opposed to test, if you do it six months later, and it's approved, then I think you're probably doing a little bit better.

Lisa: It's a little bit like your cell blueprint, which I found brilliant, by the way, and if anyone wants to check out that we can put the links. That questionnaire that you've developed there gives the practitioner the direction to go and we don't have a specific, ‘This isn’t definitely but hey, you might want to check your thyroid. Hey, you might want to go and check if you've got a parasitic infection, or whatever the case may be’. And I find that a brilliant system really.

Dr. Bryan: But isn't that what a practitioner wants to do? I mean, the patients come in, and they want to know, ‘Well, where should I head first’? And detox questionnaire—and again, so everybody is exposed period, everybody's exposed. Everybody has some degree of storage. Now, I don't know how much. They might be really toxic. They might be cut. Who knows? But everybody has some degree of storage. The question is, then, is, ‘Are your symptoms—because of xenobiotic exposure—are in storage or not’?

And that's where these questionnaires come in handy. If you take a questionnaire like that, and I mean, because there's people out there, believe me, there's plenty of them. Everybody's toxic, everybody needs to detoxify. There's an old book called Detoxify or Die. I mean, if that's not scary enough. It’s a good book, but I mean, it's not necessary. So we all have exposure, it's we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, Is it because of that or not?

And so you can't run around screaming ‘everybody's toxic’ because I don't know that they are. But if you score high on one of those questionnaires, then that's the direction you'd want to look into. And if you score low, I mean, listen, people will still argue it, ‘Well. We're still all toxic’. I wouldn't go down that road. It wouldn't be the first thing that I’ll thought about.

Lisa: It’s not your first protocol

Dr. Bryan: Oh, no. The questionnaires... Absolutely.

Lisa: Yes, I think that's what I do as a practitioner too, as epigenetics practitioner, and a health coach, is go for the low hanging fruit first. Because we can go in 100 directions and I can confuse the hell out of my clients and they can be like, ‘what the hell am I doing’? But if you are going for the ones late tackle, best piece of the puzzle, and then work your way up the food chain is so to speak—and actually find out which ones are the most important.

Dr. Walsh, I mean—we're going to put the links in the show notes—you've developed your own detox system if you like, which I'm really keen to share with everybody and for them to check out. But let's go in now to the actual four phases of detox: zero, one, two, and three, and you have four, isn't it? In most people—or some people are at least aware of phase one and two detox within the cell. And when I first heard you talk about this, I was like, ‘Wow, okay, there’s a zero and there’s a three’. Okay, can you explain in a nutshell, what the body does when it gets a toxin? It's in the blood for some reason, it's gotten there. What actually happens next in these detox phases?

Dr. Bryan: All right, well just to make it really comprehensive. I'll tell you, when you said when it gets into the blood, what happens? So when it gets in the blood, it can be detoxified, biotransformed, and excreted. But the best way to describe this is, so if it's in the bloodstream, wish I have something to sort of model this with but so like, so the bloodstream, and then you have you have a cell next to the bloodstream. Now there's—in physiology, there's what's called a concentration gradient. And these membranes… And so let's say we have the bloodstream in a tube—I really wish I had some kind of props here. I’m looking around. I have—my son has a Santa hat, razor blade, I don't know, I don't have much around here. Anyhow, so you have the bloodstream and here you have a cell. Now, if there's more in the blood of this, whatever it is, and less in the cell, it will tend to go into the cell. And it's usually fat cells, because it's fat soluble, it will tend to go into adipocytes or fat cells.

And so it's concentration gradient based, which also means—so that's how it gets stored. If there's more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that's when it gets stored. There's a really, really cool paper that discusses how adipocytes used to be considered to be just an energy repository, but then turned out to be an organ because they excrete over a hundred different things. But one of the additional roles they suggest is that it is this. It is to store toxins or xenobiotics, or things that could otherwise damage the body—they're fat soluble, which would make sense.

Now, if that's a concentration grid. Now let's say we're in a fasted state, and we haven't eaten anything and or exposure. If there's less in the blood, and more in the fat cell, then it will leak out. And it's based on a concentration grade, it's based on homeostasis. There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘the body won't release toxins if it's not healthy enough, and it doesn't think it can deal with them’. That's not true. What I've seen is that it leaks out from a homeostasis for a concentration gradient if there's less than the blood and more in the cell. So we are constantly leaking this stuff into our blood, if it's stored. Now this gets amplified. And I talked about this in the course, during lipolysis. So in a fasted state, in a catabolic state—not even not even losing fat, but just in a catabolic state which we go through at night. So if you stop eating at 8pm and you're sleeping, you're in a catabolic state, for example.

If you're in a state of fasting, or lipolysis, then that's going to speed up mobilization. So now—and all the studies I've ever seen on mammals or humans show this. In a hypocaloric state, or fasted state levels of xenobiotics go up in your blood. And I'll say it again because that's huge. In a fasted state or a hypocaloric state, like dieting, then if there's stored xenobiotics, it will dump into the bloodstream, and those levels go up. And they always show that every single time because that's a state of lipolysis as a catabolic state.

So then now we're back in the blood. So whether it's at an immediate exposure, or it was just released, the rest of the story remains the same. So then what happens? And I should just say too, I mean, I get frustrated with pieces of the industry. There's some people that will say, ‘Well, it's not a detox if it's not a cellular detox. If you don't detox yourself, then you're not’... This happens at the cellular level, as all detoxes is a cellular detox. So what I'm about to describe next is the cell.

So let's say we have that xenobiotic it's floating around in the blood, we either just had exposure, or it came out of a fat cell. So in one of the cells, like the liver, the kidneys, the skin that we said has the ability to do this, there are four phases of detox. So if you picture just a cube, all I have is a mug, but I have a cube. Then there needs to be a door coming in and a door coming out, that's going to be two of the phases. And then once it's inside, there's two other things that are going to happen to this.

So here's our cell, we have a fat soluble compound—I'm looking around for some—we have a fat soluble.

Lisa: It’s like your room, isn’t it?

Dr. Bryan: Well, that's the way that's why I've said it before. So yes, I mean, you could just use it as that. So in the room that you're in, or even a car quite honestly would work. So if you're in a room, you’re the cell, that's the cell, let's just say it's a liver cell. So when the door opens, that's phase zero detoxification. That's an actual phase. It was recently discovered in the early 2000s. Most people haven't heard of it but it's legitimate, things can block this. So if that happens, then that's a problem, clearly. So phase zero is when the door opens and the fat soluble compound comes into your room, into where you were.

Lisa: Into the cell.

Dr. Bryan: Into the cell, right. And once it's there, it has to go through two phases of detox. And you said I use analogies—quite honestly, I kind of make them up on the fly.

Lisa: That’s awesome.

Dr. Bryan: Well, I mean, I don't even know what I said. But I think in the past, what I've said...

Lisa: It was an angry dude—a person—we make the person a toxin who’s just entered the room.

Dr. Bryan: Oh yes. All right. I make him up on the fly until now. So all right, yes, yes, I can go with that one. So you have the room, the room’s a cell, a person is on the outside of your room, they come in, that's phase zero. And that's all it is in the cell is just a little protein tube. So the person comes in, they're fat soluble person. And they're angry. So what did we say?

Lisa: You stick a sticky note on the head.

Dr. Bryan: Is that what I said?

Lisa: Yes.

Dr. Bryan: Let’s make them more mad. That's right. Okay. See, listen, I'm telling you make it up right then and there. All right, you're right. You're right. You're right.

So the person comes in, and they will damage your room. But to incite them and make them even more angry. Yes, that’s right. You put a little sticky note, like what was your little yellow sticky notes, and you put them on the forehead, that makes them really mad. Even more mad than they were in the first place. And now you can calm them down. But if you don't, they're going to start flipping over your desk, and just totally, totally worse than they were in the first place. They were angry when they came in. But now they're even angrier. But you can hand them a $100 bill. And they're going to say, ‘All right, I was angry but now I'm not anymore. I'm good. You just handed me something. So I'll go ahead and quietly leave the room now’. And then when they walk out another door of the room, then that would be phase three.

So to put that—and thanks for reminding me of my analogy. But biochemically speaking, so you have a fat soluble compound, like a phthalate or a dioxin, or whatever it might be. So it literally has to get in the cell in the first place. Now, researchers used to think it was a fat-soluble membrane, fat soluble compound, and would just go right in. And that's not the case. It needs a channel in order to bring it in. That's phase zero, literally it is phase zero. And why is it phase zero? It was because they discovered this after they already knew about phase one and phase two, but they didn't have any numbers before then and they didn't even know it existed. So in the early 2000s, they said, ‘Well, we'll name it phase zero’. So that's the entry of a fat-soluble toxin, let's just say into hepatocyte, liver cell.

Phase one: reactions. There's a few different kinds. They’re like oxidation reduction type of thing, hydrolysis. Basically, what happens is that when in the sticky note what it had on it, it had an OH, hydroxyl group. So you put a hydroxyl group on this person, or you exposed a hydroxyl group that was already present but wasn't fully exposed. Now the problem is after we put that sticky note on their forehead, and they got even more angry is that toxin beforehand could cause damage to the body. It could cause oxidative stress or DNA damage or endocrine disruption or citric acid cycle, mitochondria, whatever was unique to that particular toxin. But now that it has OH exposed or added on to it via phase one, it is water soluble, first of all. It's water soluble, which is cool. Now your body can get rid of it. However, it's considered to be an intermediate metabolite, and is considered to be more damaging than the original xenobiotic.

Now, it's not true of every single time. And that's the thing, there are too many of these compounds to make blanket statements. People will say it's more toxic. No, it's not. It may be more damaging—I'm not going to say more toxic. It may cause more damage now that it's water soluble with this hydroxyl group exposed. But then phase two, when you handle this angry—now really angry person, a $100 bill US dollars. I wouldn't let you guys—you hand them a $100 bill or a bunch of money, they're not angry anymore. They're still water-soluble, they were but now phase two is considered a conjugation reaction and conjugation is adding something to it.

And so people that are familiar with phase two are familiar with things like methylation or sulphation, or glucuronidation, or amino acid conjugation, any of those things but what gets handed is this: so sulfation, you hand them a sulphur group, methylation, it hands them a methyl group, amino acid conjugation, it's usually glycine, glycine will go, glutathione conjugations glutathione, so acetylation and acetyl groups. So the xenobiotic gets handed to it, what's unique to that particular one, if that makes sense. You can make it really easy to talk about hormones like sex hormones, go through the same pathway—the testosterone, the estrogen. They go through the same pathway.

Lisa: They do, and neurotransmitters as well.

Dr. Bryan: Yes, cytokines, immunoglobulin, antibodies

Lisa: And dopamine and all of that?

Dr. Bryan: Yes, by and large, by and large, yes. So then it gets phased two. It gets something handed to. Let's say, it gets a sulphur group and went through sulfation. Now, it's no longer damaging to the body. Now it's relatively benign. It was damaging as its original compound. It came in through phase zero, it was made potentially more damaging by exposing or adding on a hydroxyl group, depending on what the compound was, and depending on the biochemical pathway went through, but then when it gets conjugated, it's still water soluble, but now it's not damaging. And can there—if phase three, that second door is open, can go out of the door.

Now remember, so all that does—and this is a really important part—there's a lot of misunderstandings of what phase three is. Phase three is merely a tube, leaving that cell, which means that, this thing now, in terms of physiology goes into the interstitial fluid surrounding cells.

Lisa: And it’s water-soluble at this point.

Dr. Bryan: It’s water-soluble in the interstitial fluid, and can be excreted in sweat. It can go through the lymphatic system, which is going to pick up some of the junk of the interstitial fluid but that just dumps itself in the bloodstream anyways, which that means it'll probably end up in the kidneys and get excreted out in urine. But a lot of this can end up going in—since it happens in the liver, the liver will get rid of its these...

Lisa: ...products

Dr. Bryan: ...through bile because the route from the liver to the intestines is via bile.

Lisa: Why is this not phase four, then? Like phase three should be the thing leaving the cell.

Dr. Bryan: It is, that's phase three.

Lisa: Phase four should be like actually the excretion method.

Dr. Bryan: You can call it phase—or at some point, you're going to have too many phases. You’ll be like, the 10 phases of detox. It will just confuse everybody. But after it leaves the cell, the most critical piece is excretion. And I mean, we're not talking about this part yet but I'll just say, the three pieces, there's four phases to detox. But the three things that must happen for somebody to actually detoxify, and I say must with a capital MUST, is one is they have to be mobilized. You have to get them out of the storage in first place. Two is you have to go through biotransformation, which is the phase zero, one, two, and three. The third part is they have to be excluded. If they're not excreted—and this is a really important part—if it's not excreted, it can go into another cell. That conjugation reaction that can get undone, there are enzymes that will undo that conjugation. So you handed this sulphur...

Lisa: You’re backing in the shot again basically.

Dr. Bryan: Well, and then it becomes this damaging thing again, and can get stored in another tissue if it doesn't get excreted, which, incidentally, is why I have a major problem with most fasting programmes. Honestly, most weight loss programmes in sedentary people. I mean, if you take a fitness competitor...

Lisa: An athlete’s all right, they're going to sweat it out.

Dr. Bryan: They'll probably be okay. But if you take somebody who has just been storing their whole life, they've never really exercised, they get to be 45 years old. They wear a certain weight during their wedding. Now, they're 45, they don't feel sexy anymore. Maybe it's a good time to do a real weight loss programme, the chances of them flooding their system with these things is tremendous. And if there is not an active role in, especially that's the mobilization, that's the first part.

But to properly detoxify these, and more importantly, excrete these things, then it's just going to go somewhere else. And I will say there's some evidence. It's weak evidence, unfortunately, there's not a lot of research on this, but midlife weight loss might be associated with an increased risk of things like dementia and certain chronic diseases.

Lisa: I want to sit on this topic a little bit and dive into, because I had some questions when I started to understand this whole process, it really rang some alarm bells for me. For people who do like yo-yo dieting, they're losing weight, they're gaining it, they're losing weight, they're gaining it. They're actually doing a lot of damage than somebody who's just lost it. Another thing is if you're losing it slowly over time as compared to just dumping it all because you've done a juice fast that someone told you was a fantastic detox. And then you've dumped all this into the system. And this can have impacts years later, like we just mentioned, like dementia, Parkinson's disease, all of these things.

Because I was listening to one of your biochemistry or blood chemistry lectures, I can't remember which one, something to do with cardiovascular system. And you were talking about the triglyceride molecule, or whatever you call it. And how—if the legs are broken off—it’s free fatty acids get into the system and then this can clog up the system, cause insulin resistance, be a contributing factor to diabetes, all of these things. And I was like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, when I'm losing weight, which I think is a good thing for my body, I'm actually also doing some damaging things because I'm releasing these toxins or these free fatty acids or, or things that are actually causing trouble’.

So when we have a detox programme that's in the latest magazine, and even some of the scientific like Dr. Valter Longo’s Fasting Mimicking Diets, which is a great—lot of research gone into it, but it's looking at the mobilization, the autophagy, the mitophagy, all of these good pieces of the puzzle, but it hasn't actually considered the excretion. It does look at the micronutrients required for phase one and two, which is fantastic.

So you've got three pillars here that you're talking about. First is mobilization, of the fats or the toxins into the bloodstream from stored places, like your fat cells. Then we've got phase one and two, where it's processed, the detox—actual detox situation. And for that, we need a whole lot of micronutrients, which I want to touch on briefly like using your selenium and your B vitamins and goodness knows what. If you don't have those—your sulphur groups. If you don't have those, you're going to have trouble. And then we need to look at how do we get this stuff out. So what can we do to support the body to do binders or I don't know what the sweating protocols or saunas or whatever?

I had one question that for me personally, I've got a mum that had a massive aneurysm four years ago, and my listeners know about my story. I've just written a book about her journey back for massive brain damage. Now she's lost 30 something kilos over this last four and a half years, when I have been rehabilitating her. She does not sweat. And she's 79 years old, she's never really sweated. She doesn't do that very well, naturally. And she also now at 79, can't exercise intensively enough to sweat. I can't put her in a sauna because here temperature regulation has gone with her brain function. I have to be really, really careful, then if I make you lose any more weight, don't I? With brain damage...

Dr. Bryan: Well, it’s a hard thing to say for sure. I mean, first of all, with all that weight loss already—I don't want to say the damages—you have no idea.

Lisa: Yes, so hopefully it was not a big dump.

Dr. Bryan: Yes, so there are some interesting human studies, looking at slow versus more rapid weight loss and how much xenobiotic levels go up, and how it affects thyroid hormone, and the basal metabolic rate and all these different things to which is their recommendation is to do slower detox, but like I said, I would recommend how about, I mean start a weight loss, I would support doing detoxification pathways while you're doing the weight loss programme so that you can get rid of these things better, and it doesn't cause damage.

Yes, so in terms of yo-yo dieting, again everybody's a little different. I can't say this happens to everyone. It depends on your diet, your lifestyle, where you live, and how much you've accumulated. I mean, some people don't have a whole lot, I would suspect. But yes, so there in fact, there is at least one study that comes to mind using mice and yo-yo dieting. And what basically it showed with them is that during periods of weight loss or catabolism, that their xenobiotic levels would go up. And then when they stopped in the hypocaloric state, they went back into a more of a hyper caloric state, that the xenobiotics that weren't excreted went somewhere else. And when I mean somewhere else, like a different tissue, so it absolutely can go from one tissue. Absolutely. Absolutely.

In fact, I wanted to tell you this. Anecdotally, I just talked to a guy—I don't know about a month ago—who used to work at a water fast detox clinic in Thailand. And he worked there for a really long time. And he's said that their people would fly to Thailand to go to this water fast detox clinic that had no business to do so. They were not healthy, it's more of a novelty. Like, ‘hey, let's go to Thailand and go to the water fast place for two weeks and do a detox, then we'll go back and live our life normally like we did before, eating a bunch of garbage’. And he said, they had no business doing it, but they would come back once or twice a year. And the same people he said would get worse, that I mean, and horrible, like liver problems or teeth were falling out, and just wrecking them. And it was fascinating to hear that story. He didn't know why.

Lisa: Yes, and I can guess why.

Dr. Bryan: Well, that's what I mean is to actually have real world experience, possibly. There's no proof of this, but to see these people that would do a one week, two weeks supervised water fast and then come live their life and then come back, and their health was worse. And I think if I had to bet I would say that's probably why. And consider, it's just a water fast. So what were they not doing, is they weren't exceeding, they weren't sweating. They didn't take any binders. They weren't doing anything. All they were doing is just water. And so, to me, they were flooding their system in a very—almost completely fasted state except for water, which is essentially fasting. Flooding their system, potentially with xenobiotics, not excreting them all and then reabsorbing them, putting them in different tissues.

Lisa: Re-depositing them in your brain or something. So you could shift the mercury molecule, for example, from your fat cell where it was pretty safe. Put it into your blood and then it get redeposited in your brain and cause real strife.

Dr. Bryan: And he hasn't contacted me yet. I think he will probably be angry. But Dr. Longo you mentioned, I mean, the guy's brilliant. He's brilliant, he’s great.

Lisa: Oh, yes, no doubt.

Dr. Bryan: And it's super, super cool what he's doing, that's a huge concern that I have, though: is that you take an average person and you put them on what's essentially like, what 300 to 500 calorie diet for a period of time, and if you don't support the biochemical—so that's mobilization for sure. If you don't support the second part, which is detoxification pathways, and then the third pick is excretion, then you're potentially making them worse longer. And again, who cares about autophagy and mitophagy if you're just redistributing these xenobiotics somewhere? And it’s a huge concern. It's a legitimate one. And I’m not saying what he's done is bad, I just think it's a piece that is missing.

Lisa: A discussion needs to be had around this.

Dr. Bryan: Yes, well, and that's true of... So, take the Gwyneth Paltrow juice test. It's the same thing. You're not binding or excreting anything. You're hypocaloric, yes. Are you improving detoxification? Well, not if you have things like celery and carrots because those might actually inhibit as it turns out. So you're not detoxing. So you're mobilizing, not detoxifying and not excreting—that's bad news, I think, long term.

Lisa: Well, let's look—talk about a couple other things that are in the phase one and two, in phase three, actually, more specifically. Some of the compounds that we consider great compounds for a lot of things, like you mentioned celery and carrots. I mean, that's what people juice with. I mean, I know I just had a celery juice for breakfast. I'm not into detox, but celery in itself is not a bad thing. But it can be a mild phase three. I believe inhibitor is in curcumin, milk thistle, some of these things that we consider detox herbs, if you like, and especially in supplement doses versus food doses can actually have the opposite of fate. Can you go into just a little bit of that, what nutrients support phase one and two and three, and which one's actually inhibited? And why is it counter-intuitive?

Dr. Bryan: Well, the counter intuitiveness of it has to do with the dose, turns out. So well, and again, I mean, as humans, good lord, we've been wrong far more times than we've been right. I mean, as a husband, I can tell you, that's true. And father, it's like a daily basis. But so what we did with milk thistle was we say, milk thistle is good for liver liver detox is there for milk thistle is good for detox. And that's not true. And that's fine. I mean, that logical progression of thought makes sense, but it's not how it pans out. So it's dose related.

So, phase one. There's a lot of talk about phase one out there. Phase one are very basic, rudimentary biochemical processes. Oxidation reduction hydrolysis, if those suck in a person, detox is not your problem. They get highlighted a lot—phase one pathways. But in the end, people will say technically you need some B vitamins for this, but you need B vitamins to run most of the basic biochemical processes in the first place. So, honestly, phase one is not a phase I worry about too much in people. As long as they're nutrient sufficient, which basically means taking a good quality multi, they're probably—and I say big probably—they're probably fine with phase one. There are things incidentally, like some of those vegetables that you mentioned.

So this is where it gets crazy. In high doses, things like celery or apples or carrots can inhibit phase one a little bit. And it's dose dependent. And so it's in the concentrated form. Well, what's concentrated form?

Lisa: Supplement

Dr. Bryan: If you juice a whole bunch of carrots and apples, yes. I mean, most people will juice more than they would eat the raw fruit or vegetable. So you might juice five or six celery sticks, three carrots, two apples, and, I don’t know, spinach, Well, turns out that all those things will probably inhibit phase one in that concentrated amount. There's nothing wrong with the fruit or the vegetable eating raw. And I will say there's nothing wrong with it, juicing it either but it's all context. I'll get to phase three in a second.

Phase two. Again, these are very basic biochemical pathways that if you can't run them properly, you have bigger problems than just detoxifying. Phase Two are very amino acid driven. So amino acids make glutathione, for example. So you need amino acids just for glutathione, you need the amino acids for the amino acid conjugation pathway. Things like acetylation, you need acetyl groups, those are pretty easy to come by in the body—sulfation, methylation. So you need certain nutrients, usually, amino acids do a pretty good job supporting that.

And problem comes in phase three. So if you consider that analogy of we use the angry guy. So if you want to get rid of the angry guy out of the body, you need to have door zero, and door three wide open. So like I mean, if you consider just like—let's say you have a line of angry people outside, all you need is a sticky note and $100 note to be able to shuffle them through, right? The problem or in the body has a fair bit of sticky notes and $100 notes, not everybody, but as long as they have sufficient micronutrients like vitamins and minerals, and as long as they're sufficient in amino acids, which again, not everybody is, they’re probably okay.

Now, again, it's going to vary with people a little bit. But you need to have those doors open. And the problem really arises, and think about this, where—this is putting our whole story that we've talked about together. If that, if the exit door is closed, you can undo. You can essentially take that $100 note back, and now, it's super angry and super angry again. And so if that third, or I'm sorry, the third phase or that exit door is closed, that's where problems arise.

And so this is where it gets super interesting to me, super interesting. Curcumin, milk thistle, green tea extract, those are extremely potent phase three inhibitors. They close that exit door. And when people question me on this, well I'll show them the papers. But I'll say, ‘Look into the literature’. Because in conventional—and this is what I say Western medicine is brilliant and thank God, they do what they do, because we're learning about things that we need to use for ourselves.

So in cancer therapy, Western medicine is trying to find out how you can keep a chemotherapeutic drug inside of a cell longer, so it can interact with cancer better. And so in medicine, they talk about these pathways, because they don't want these pathways to work because then you need a higher dose. These chemotherapeutic drugs, they don't want them to exit the body. They want them in the body, so they can act against the cancer. And so you know what researchers are using to block that phase three in cancer treatments is milk thistle, and curcumin, and they're even using green tea extract and some of those types of things. They're using those in doses that people would take as a means of keeping the chemotherapeutic drug inside of the cell longer by blocking phase three.

Lisa: So this is all about context, isn’t it, Doctor Walsh?

Dr. Walsh: It’s totally context.

Lisa: We're not saying green tea is bad for you. We're saying if you were doing a detox and you're mobilizing all these toxins, don't take green tea at that time, or curcumin, or milk thistle at that time. If you're trying to do something good in the cell, go for it.

Dr. Bryan: Well, so milk thistle, I think—and I don't have a list of 10—deserves to be on a top 10 list of herbs. Milk thistle is amazing at what it does. It's so broad and all of its mechanisms. It is truly, truly an amazing botanical.

It turns out, and one of its big roles as people know is it's hepatoprotective. I mean, it can regenerate the liver. But it turns out the reason why, and this is where it really gets cool, the reason why it's so darn hepatoprotective is it blocks its own exit out of the cell. So why can milk thistle be so awesome for liver cell, because it blocks phase three, allowing you to do its other stuff to do inside of the cell longer. So that's why it's so great as a liver herb. It's horrible as a detox herb though, because it blocks phase three. And if you don't let that angry guy out, you're going to take your $100 note back and he's going to be even more angry again.

Lisa: So we need to know what you’re after, what you wanted.

Dr. Bryan: Well, one thing and understand this too. So I came at all this research in the same—where everybody else did. I was, my mind was blown by this. My eyes were open and I thought ‘Holy cow’. And just to give you an example. Well, I'll just make my statement, and then I'll tell you why. Unless proven otherwise, I think most botanicals, most herbs, most stuff don't have a place in the detox programme because people truly don't know what its effects are.

Now I'll qualify what I just said. You can take any nutrient like quercetin been studied with, there's a bunch that have been studied. And here's the problem when it comes to detox, is the same compound like quercetin will increase detoxification in one tissue of the body, like the kidneys. It will decrease detoxification enzymes in another tissue of the body, and I'm making this up, like the liver, and it will have no change on the exact same enzymes, exact same enzymes, same quercetin, same dose, different tissue or cell will have a different effect on the same enzymes.

So what that means is so you can say well, is quercetin a detoxifier or not? You say, well, I don't know because it does in one cell it inhibits at another cell, there's no change in the third. Listen, if someone wants to use quercetin, go for it. But in what I've read, in my understanding of this until proven otherwise, I don't think quercetin deserves a place in the detox programme. And I don't care who says what or shows what, when you look at the dearth of studies in that one area on quercetin, you end up like I have no idea of what a quercetin is, does it detoxify or not? I have no idea.

Lisa: So it's analytic, isn’t it?

Dr. Bryan: Unless proven, otherwise, you don't take it. So that's true but it turns out, it's dose dependent. And so the amount of quercetin that’s been found in onions, however, is probably beneficial for detox. The amount of curcumin found in turmeric is beneficial. It's helpful. It stimulates phase three, in a high potent dose inhibits phase three. Same with green tea. Like green tea as an extract in a capsule is going to cause problems. A single cup of it, I don't think but it is context. Milk Thistle, curcumin, these things are all amazing. Apples, celery, it's all amazing. But it's all about context. If you're actively detoxifying, I don't think they have a place in a detox programme.

Lisa: So quercetin is—for people who are listening, it's basically a senolytic, isn't it? Like, it’s mental health counterpart. Yes, senescent cells and things that might be useful for that. So what we're saying is that these are all great things, but at the right time, in the right context for the right person is the key. And this is the good part.

Dr. Bryan: Quercetin is step further. So quercetin blocks histamine release from a mast cell, it also inhibits the thyroid. So...

Lisa: Wow. I got—oh my god.

Dr. Bryan: You have to look at the totality. No, that's it. So, that's fine. So somebody who has hypothyroid with allergies, maybe quercing is not the best idea. But somebody with normal thyroid and allergies and possibly it will work. And well I mean, this is if you followed my work, you know I'm against protocols, but that's why. Because like one protocol will be brilliant for one and harmful for another, they're the same protocol.

Lisa: Yes. And that's why it was so great with all their blood chemistry stuff was like trying to understand the actual physiology rather than just going one plus two equals three, and therefore this person has XYZ. And to be honest, as a health coach, it’s a lot of work trying to get that into your head. It's harder than working from protocols.

Dr. Bryan: It's a pain in the butt.

Lisa: It's giving me more work to do.

Dr Bryan: That's horrible. No, it sucks. It's horrible. But I mean, listen, no. And here's the thing: as a practitioner, you can either decide—and I don't judge, I don't care what somebody does—if you want to go down the easy route and just use protocols on people and not think much, that's totally fine. For me, it's integrity. I mean, if people come to me and want me to try to help them, I will do my due diligence in trying to do so. And knowing that I can't just give out protocols, which sucks because then you bang your head against the wall for every single patient sometimes, and it's not easy, but it's good medicine.

Lisa: Can we just touch on—before, and I know we nearly have to wrap up shortly, but thyroid? How does all of this affect the thyroid? And if you need a suggestion for the next thing that you want to bring out, I need help with thyroid. The thyroid is an epidemic sort of problem and...

Dr. Bryan: And it's not easy to fix in nutrition.

Lisa: And trying to do it without, just taking levothyroxine or eltroxin or whatever isn't fixing it for most people. A lot of people are subclinical and the toxins that we’re having and the state of our hormones, estrogenic, if we’re dominant estrogen or testosterone, it's all having effect on our thyroid and our thyroid is just so important. Have you got any words of wisdom in regards to the thyroid in all of us?

Dr. Bryan: Okay, so as it pertains to toxins, I can briefly discuss that. Here's my take on thyroid. Thyroid dysfunction is very downstream. Meaning, in my opinion, it's not usually primary, it's usually secondary to something else, whether it's inflammation—I mean, who knows what. Another thing that the practitioners must ask themselves, so they have to ask themselves this is I mean, if people don't remember anything else, just remember this, is when you observe something in the body is to ask if it's on purpose.

So for example, I did a workshop on adrenal fatigue. Maybe it's low cortisol because the body wants low cortisol, and maybe low cortisol is protecting the body, and I have a lot of evidence to suggest that it is. Maybe low thyroid… So this is a thing, is it a thyroid issue? Is it something that's causing the thyroid issue? Or is it an organic thyroid issue? And if it's organic, does the body want it to be that way? Hypertension is protective in some cases, I will tell you. Insulin resistance is beneficial from an evolutionary perspective, as is PCOS. So, these are areas that I think that medicine has wrong, but...

So when you think about quickly the physiology of the thyroid. So there's the hypothalamus, it makes TRH and then the pituitary makes TSH and thyroid makes T3, T4, and there's a conversion of T3 to T4, there's binding and there's receptors and all that. So there's probably about 10 different spots. Xenobiotics, in the literature, scientifically proven, has been shown to affect every single aspect of thyroid physiology, from the stimulation of production in the hypothalamus, TRH, TSH, thyroid hormone production inside the liver, thyroid hormone release, thyroid conversion, thyroid binding, and then eventually thyroid binding on the thyroid receptors inside of itself. Every single, every single aspect of thyroid physiology is and as I say this, because it's a potent effect of xenobiotics.

So to make it clinical, if somebody is having thyroid dysfunction, subclinical thyroid symptoms, or it's showing up in a lab, what do you do? You have to be willing to be subjective and do the questionnaire. And if they score high, say, ‘Listen, I don't know if this is going to fix it or not, but you've scored high on this, it's worth a shot’. And so then you do a few rounds of a detoxification programme over the course of a few months, six months, whatever they have, however high their score was. And then have them retested. If their thyroid rebounds, then yes. I've seen some pretty crazy things with that detox. In fact, this is more of a male thing.

But I have a patient right now that reached out. Long story, really chronic guy, probably Lyme disease, just wrecked him, like neurological wrecked him so so bad. I feel so bad for him. But because of that he developed low testosterone, low testosterone symptoms, erectile dysfunction. And it's just—he's an awesome guy. I say he's awesome because he had accepted these things well. This is in his upper 30 years old, he's not even that old. But he kind of accepted it, he’ll be like, ‘This is my life. A certain amount of erectile dysfunction is going to be my life’. And he did my detox. 10 days, for the month afterwards, totally normal. He was on fire in that area. He retested his testosterone, his testosterone went up. So I'm not saying my detox does this. But what did he do during that 10 days that was able to—he had such an amazing effect. Was it the calories? Was it the food he was eating? Was it detoxification? I don't know.

So I say all that because if somebody has symptoms, do one of these symptomatic—I'm sorry, subjective questionnaires. If you score relatively high, that's the best assessment that you can do. And I would try a few rounds of doing a detox programme. If it wasn't high, I wouldn't bark up that tree. I would consider something else, some subclinical infections or micronutrient deficiency, or genes. A lot of people like to jump on the genetic train but that's a possibility as to why, too and mental emotional.

Lisa: And how we process these things.

Dr. Bryan: Yes, mental-emotional issues, absolutely. All those things.

Lisa: Yes, and the genetic some right into the whole functional genomic stuff. And that definitely plays a part in how we process things out of the body, good or not for good or whatever, and it’s part of this thing. So okay, so if we’re looking at—so the thyroid in this case, look upstream, have you got toxin exposure? If you have, well, let's look at avoidance for starters, how can we avoid some of these, clean up your house, clean up our personal hygiene products, clean up your food, organic when possible—all of these things, then we'll look at a detox.

Now, your detox programme is a 10 day programme that you can do on—regular depending on how toxic you are. And the first—sort of six days—I think it is six days is sort of based around the fasting mimicking. So a low a low calorie diet with a good mix of macronutrients to make sure that you've got all the stuff in the body to do the phase one and phase two. And what is the second part of your detox? And how do people get this protocol if they want to do it for themselves, or practitioners listening out there, how can they get this to help with the clients?

Dr. Bryan: Yes, so our main website right now is metabolicfitnesspro.com, that has all of our courses, including the detox course, there's a practitioner based one, which, I mean, that's the one I like I will say, but that that has all the science of all the paths because it goes deep into the science, basically, for practitioners. So they have a better understanding when they're talking to their patients, and they just know how the processes work. We have a more watered down version of it, The Walsh detox, that's available to the general public. Practitioners can buy that one, too, but it doesn't have as much science, it's a lot more watered down. But it's the same protocol, essentially. So yes, those are available metabolicfitnesspro.com.

Lisa: We’ll put the link in the show notes.

Dr. Bryan: So the second part of it—I mean, since recording that, I might do an updated version of it soon here. That whole 10 days was for somebody who has never done the detox type thing, any kind of dietary modification. So just consider the average person, you know who they are, who’s never really done much with their diet, minus trying to lose weight at some point.

For people that are more experienced with dietary modifications, that are probably a little bit healthier, going into something like this, like yourself. What I have been doing with people is we will do instead of one 10-day detox and a month, we'll do two of the latter half. So two 4 to 5 day, if that makes sense. So it's really just fasting mimicking diet. So it's five day the more intense version, but we'll do those. So first week, and third week in a month, we might do five days of that. And that's arguably the more...

Lisa: Practical

Dr. Bryan: Well, a potent part of it, too. Yes, it's more potent than the ones with the mung beans and all of the things in the protein. So there's a couple ways of doing it, but it just—again, it depends on where somebody is. We've had people with multiple chemical sensitivity, that didn't feel real well, and they had to modify their program, more binders, more foods, so they weren't as hyper caloric, longer saunas at a lower intensity. So it's not a protocol, it's principles, if that makes sense. They are modifiable depending on somebody. So somebody like yourself, I wouldn't bother doing those first six days, I would just do the last four days a couple of few times a month, if you wanted to.

Lisa: Yes, and keep processing the stuff and it really is just final on the binding. How can we help our bile, like bind up our bile, and some of the things that we can excrete, the sauna you mentioned is a great thing. Exercise and sweating and sauna. What about laxatives and diuretics and things? Are they bad? Because to help once you've got the stuff out to get it out or binders like activated charcoal, chitosan.

Dr. Bryan: So those are on the programme. Well, and here's the other thing, there's so many, I think garbage detox programmes out there that I wanted to try to make what I thought was the first truly evidence based one looking at the scientific literature. So there are binders that exist that I didn't include, because I couldn't find any literature on them like zeolite or bentonite clay. I love them. I think they're great but I couldn't find literature on it.

Things like charcoal, chitosan or ketosan, however, you want to pronounce that, fibre, soluble insoluble fibres, modified citrus, pectin, they all have some evidence behind them that they actually either increase bile excretion, or when they increase bile excretion, increase xenobiotic excretion as well, which is faster, that's what we're after.

So you ask a really good question. What, somebody’s liver health going into this? What is their bile production going into this? What is their bile going into this? Yes, all that stuff. So I've been meaning to do sort of a follow up to that programme because I have like a phase two of that where you can modify some of these things.

Lisa: For difficult patients.

Dr. Bryan: Well, yes. So kind of—I mean, it eventually puts all this stuff together. So you're doing the blood chemistry stuff you said. So like, if you determine that somebody has fatty liver, they probably don't have very good bile flow, and they may need some additional nutrients to do a detox that you don't or I don't know, or probably most of your listeners don't. There's pH comes into this as well, which is kind of a big piece when it comes to the kidneys and whether they reabsorb things or not. But just the fundamental principles, is designed to help somebody who's relatively healthy do a good detoxification programme and see results. If somebody is particularly unhealthy then there are some modifications that would need to be made.

Lisa: That would be a great update to the whole thing. Yes. For people like in mum's case, no gallbladder, liver enzymes. Not too bad, but they're not the greatest, all of those sorts of aspects. But I mean, it's going beyond today's discussion.

Dr. Walsh, thank you so much for all the work that you do in this area. It’s absolutely mind blowing. It's opened my eyes to a lot of things. I really hope people go to metabolicfitnesspro.com. Check out Dr. Walsh's detox programme, but not just his detox programme. If you are a practitioner, there is a whole lot of education stuff that you can—I have a lot of colleagues who I talk with and Dr. Walsh is a hot topic. He is a hot topic. Everybody's learning from Dr. Walsh. So people out there listening, if you want to get it from the best, if you want to know what's really in the literature, and you don't want to sift through PubMed for months on end, and do it yourself, which I really don't have time to do. Then, I'd rather get it from someone like Dr. Walsh.

So, thank you so much for your time, Dr. Walsh,

Dr. Bryan: My pleasure. Thank you.

Lisa: Thank you very much.

Dr. Bryan: You, too.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Have you ever done something without knowing why you connect to it so much? That was how it happened for Tiffanee Cook. Coming into the world of boxing and fitness, a world full of people who have stories and reasons behind their drive, she felt like she was the only one who didn’t have a ‘story’. Tiffanee soon discovered, however, that finding yourself, developing self-awareness and confronting your past can all happen in the boxing ring.

In this episode, Tiffanee joins me to share her journey from the corporate world to the fitness industry. She recounts how a traumatic past allowed her to connect with boxing and being in the ring. Tiffanee also talks about how her experiences changed her outlook and helped her learn how to set boundaries.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Gain valuable insights from Tiffanee’s journey into boxing and fitness. 2. Discover how finding yourself and developing self-awareness despite the odds is possible. 3. How can you let go of your conditioned responses?

Resources * Connect with Tiffanee: Facebook | Instagram * Tiffanee & Co. Fitness: Website | Facebook * Roll with the Punches Podcast * Roll with the Punches on Instagram

Episode Highlights [04:45] How It All Started * Tiffanee is from Tasmania, but she moved to Melbourne when she was around 20 years old. She’s been in Melbourne for almost 17 years now and has worked in the corporate world for the majority of those years. * She watched a talk on resilience by former British Royal Navy Aircrew Officer, Paul Taylor. * Paul showed her around his gym, where she saw a poster about a 12-week corporate boxing challenge. * Tiffanee was riddled with anxiety the day before the fight. Despite the odds, she won.

[09:14] Finding Her Way in the Fitness and Boxing World * Tiffanee ended up buying a Certificate of Fitness from Personal Training Academy at the fundraising event during the first fight. * As she was finishing her fitness training qualification, a friend trained with her. The next thing she knew, other friends also started training with her. * While initially not interested, Tiffanee felt like she needed to give it a go and grow in that career path. * Looking back, Tiffanee can see her transformation from a disengaged employee to an engaged employee, to a coach, to a business owner. * She launched an online coaching program three years ago. While it fell away quickly, she loved how people opened up to her and shared their stories.

[15:16] Confronting Your Emotions and Finding Yourself * The boxing ring is the one place where Tiffanee trusts who she is. She developed more self-awareness. * In the boxing ring, you react before your conscious mind catches up. * When she was younger, Tiffanee was a victim of sexual abuse. * Confronting her doubts and fear in the boxing ring also gave her the opportunity to look back and think about how her childhood experience changed her.

[25:42] The Connection Between Her Past and Boxing * Through the boxing ring, Tiffanee saw her inability to connect with her emotions at the moment. * She copes by compartmentalising, only accommodating what is happening. * She resonated with how there was support on the outside but none that could step in the boxing ring to help her. In the ring, she can come out on top and handle what’s happening. * It took a lot of reflecting and writing to see how past experience allowed her to connect with boxing. * Listen to the full podcast as Tiffanee shares more about taking a break, training and learning more about herself and her emotions.

[34:26] Changes in Tiffanee’s Outlook * Her story allows Tiffanee to meet and connect with people in the boxing ring. * We all yearn for a resolution on some level, especially if we are not happy in all areas of our lives. * Boxing has an opinion-based judging system. As a boxer, you are essentially putting your self-worth and identity in the hands of other people. * We all want to win. But at the end of the day and in the years and months to come, you’re just the same you. * What you do is not who you are.

[43:33] Helping and Finding a Connection with Paramedics * Tiffanee met a paramedic in one of Craig Harper’s camps. When COVID hit, they started an online fitness program to help other paramedics who are single and need to go in isolation. * The project eventually evolved into her podcast. * She found herself connecting with the paramedics. To be a great paramedic, you have to learn to suppress your emotions, and she knew how that felt and its repercussions. * First responders experience a lot of horrific situations and are working under a lot of stress. This can take a toll on them physically, mentally and emotionally.

[51:21] Epigenetics and Your Physical and Mental Health * There is no divide between mental and physical health. * Epigenetics allows you to look at the various aspects of your health to get the best out of your body — from improving your performance to finding ways to prevent health problems. * For Tiffanee, one of her conditioned responses to signs of conflict is to be accommodating. Now, she has learned to set boundaries. * Having boundaries is vital to avoid burning yourself out and depleting your resources.

7 Powerful Quotes ‘The one thing I did love about online coaching was people would just open and bare their soul in a way that you don’t get when they walk in person in the boxing environment’.

‘The boxing ring is the only place where I feel that even for myself I am unmasked. It’s the one place where I can trust who I am’.

‘I resonated with standing inside a boxing ring with somebody standing in front of me that was there as an opponent to inflict pain. I resonated, that there was all of this support on the outside but none that could step inside and help me’.

‘It crossed my mind, “If I touch this area of myself, I'm changing who I am as a boxer”. So how much does it mean to be this boxer? How much of my identity revolves around that’?

‘If things have changed, but that in itself was beautiful. I went back to boxing not for boxing’s sake also, and I box not for boxing’s sake, for the sport, but for getting a handle on who I am’.

‘So it’s like what do we fight for? You’re putting your body on the line. And this one fight, this one result, this means the world to you. But guess what? … At the end of the day, in two month’s time, you’re just the same you’.

‘What you do is not who you are’.

About Tiffanee ‘Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face’.

Tiffanee Cook has learned this as a businesswoman, performance coach and boxer. The comfort, predictability and safety provided by the corporate world, to the lessons and let-downs in and out of the boxing ring. Coming to the realisation that to have one’s hand raised in triumph, adversity, discomfort and combat must be navigated. In the face of the messiness of life, do we fight or do we flee?

Tiffanee speaks openly of her own personal experiences (good and bad) and how those experiences have enabled her to develop self-awareness, resilience, courage, independence and the skill to maximise passion, possibilities, and potential. She talks about getting knocked down (literally and metaphorically) and what it is that makes some of us get back up and some stay down.

Working in business, sport, high performance and personal development, Tiffanee explores a range of ideas, tools, skills, resources, philosophies and strategies to empower individuals, teams and organisations to improve everything from productivity, efficiency, culture and communication to physical, mental, emotional and social health.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so that they can learn as much as you did about self-perception and finding yourself despite the odds.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing The Limits with your host Lisa Tamati. And this week, I have an exciting interview with a young lady Tiffanee Cook, all the way from Melbourne in Australia. And I came across Tiffanee because she's a fellow epigenetics coach, and we bonded and enjoyed over that topic.

And I was just really fascinated with her story. She's an incredible athlete. She's a personal trainer in Australia, has her own podcast, called Roll With The Punches for obvious reasons. She's into her boxing and really incredible. I love watching her on Instagram and doing her thing. She's extremely fit, extremely strong minded and a really intuitive young lady. It was just a fascinating conversation over what it takes to be in the ring. And how it transformed her life from being a non-athlete, at the age of 29, going into the corporate boxing scene for the first time and then completely that revolutionising her life.

And how going into boxing actually opened up a lot of old wounds from her childhood. She had been through some traumatic events in her childhood, which she shares about, which was very nice of her to share, and some reflections on that and some learnings from that. So a really interesting interview ahead for you.

Before we head over to the show, though, if you can give us a rating and review, if you enjoyed this content, please do share it with your friends and your family. I do really appreciate you doing that. Slowly, one by one we're trying to build a community of people who love good content, who find value and good content, who want to listen to experts in different areas. And I have some fascinating interviews coming up in the very near future with some really heavy hitters, some big names, and some really extraordinary experts in the field. So make sure you stay tuned for that.

Just a reminder, too, as we head over into the crazy, silly season. I hope you've all survived okay this year 2020. Come out the other end of it. Let's hope that 2021 brings something a little bit better. It's been the toughest year of my life for sure. And I know many, many others have had horrific challenges to face both personally with businesses, with loved ones, with health issues, and fear. There's a lot of fear around in this last 12 months. So I hope you've survived that, okay.

If you are wanting some help with any issues, whether you're dealing with health problems, if you have come to the end of your tether with the sort of standard medical and if you want to get some alternative—looking at some alternative approaches to things and you want some help navigating a health journey, health optimisation, whether you want gene testing epigenetics, whether you just want some help in reaching a huge goal, some mindset support and some mental toughness training, then please reach out to me, lisa@lisatamati.com. You can send me your emails on there. And we can have a conversation and see whether working with us would be something that would be of benefit to you.

We also have our standard—other programs that we're running. Our epigenetics coaching programs, which looks at your genes and how to optimise every aspect of your life according to your genes and how they are expressing right now. I know Tiffanee's right into that as well. So it is next level information to help you be the best that you can be.

We also have our online run training system, Running Hot Coaching. We'd love you to come and join our family. We've got over 700 athletes now from all over the world, that we train for various events, whether you're starting from absolute beginning, don't know where to start, want to make sure you do it in a proper structured manner, then come and see us. Or even if you've run hundred hundred miles and you still just want to optimise and reach the next level of performance, Neil and I and our team would love to help you with that. So please reach out to us at that. lisa@lisatamati.com or head on over to lisatamati.com, or our running website which is runninghotcoaching.com. Right. Without further ado, over to Tiffanee Cook.

Lisa Tamati: Well, welcome back, everybody. I'm so glad to have you with me. I have Tiffanee Cook with me, and I'm super excited for this conversation. Wow, what an amazing young lady. Tiffanee, welcome to the show.

Tiffanee Cook: Hey, Lisa. Thank you.

Lisa: It's just so exciting. We connected through our mutual love of ph360 in epigenetics. Tiffanee is also an epigenetics coach and fan. And we have a few mutual friends. So we connected through that. And then I sort of delved into Tiffanee's website and what she was doing and a podcast and thought, ‘Wow, what a What an amazing young lady’. So I wanted to get her on the show.

So, Tiffanee, can you give us a little bit of a background in who you are, and what you do, and all about what you're up to now, that's what we really want to get into the weeds on.

Tiffanee: Yes, awesome. Oh, thanks for the intro. So I'm from Tassie. I'm a young Tassie lass Tasmania, that's this, we sit down at the very bottom of Australia floating around. I grew up there, and I screwed it over to Melbourne when I was almost around 20 years old, mainly because I just felt like I was twiddling my thumbs in Tassie. It just wasn't enough air to keep me occupied.

I’ve been in Melbourne for the last 17 years. And I've worked in corporate for the majority of that. At 29 years old, I was at a talk for resilience. Actually, I went and watched a talk on resilience by a former Navy Seal. Actually, he's been on my podcast, Paul Taylor and that was fascinating. And after the talk, we went downstairs to have a look at—he had this gym called Acumotum, and it was all based on human movement. It was quite a forward thinking gym, and associated with PTA global to be honest.

And we went downstairs to the boxing gym. And there's this big poster on the wall with dudes in suits and boxing gloves on and it said, Executive Fight Club. And I looked at that, and I was like, ‘Oh, there's something that gets attention. I’m in’. So on the spur of the moment, I decided to enter corporate boxing challenge, which was kind of crazy, because I certainly was not someone that knew how to throw punches all too well. And so that experience took me in the ring for a 12-week challenge. And then we were to fight on stage, on cameras, on Foxtail, in front of a thousand people and you know all the bells and whistles that you can hear in a professional boxing fight.

Needless to say it was an enormous experience—enormous experience. And it brought with it a huge amount of growth. So I can remember my fast forward to the day before and I did not sleep until 6am in the morning. I got to sleep. I had to wake up at 7:30 to go to the airport to pick my mom up, who's coming to watch the fight. So I remember texting my trainer, ‘6am, going home soon. Still no sleep, this is not good’. And he was, ‘Yes’. And then I was just socially useless for the day. Mom went out for lunch and then I was just riddled with anxiety. It hit me all in the last hours, riddled with anxiety. ‘What the hell am I doing’?

We get to the fight night and I'm sitting there and I'm watching my best friend. She was the first fight of the night and I watched her. And she won and of course that was amazing. And I was like ‘Yes right we're on the winning team’. Then they handed me the microphone. I remember this second bout of panic hitting me because I thought well, ‘I don't want to win because I can't. What am I going to do’? Now I’m about to get in the ring to win a fight that I don't want to win because I don’t want to speak to people. But long story short I did and I won that fight and you could not get the microphone out of my hand.

After saying before the fight I will never ever ever ever do something like this again because whatever's on the other side could not be worth what I've been through the last 24 hours—that dissipated. And the feeling on the other side of that, the feeling having done it anyway was 10 times stronger. It was amazing.

Lisa: So cool.

Tiffanee: Yes so continued on. Fought with amateurs, had a great experience, ended up over the next couple years becoming a boxing coach, getting into health and fitness, and the evolution just keeps rolling on. I won't talk about it, it’s two or four o'clock here and we'll have to wrap it up.

Lisa: Oh and you've got a couple of titles and some image titles and you've—Victoria titles I think. And yes you came right into the boxing from then on and then dived into this world of fitness and coaching and more or less. So have you left the corporate job?

Tiffanee: I have left the corporate job. It was funny when I was doing the qualifications for fitness because in that first fight, we held a fundraiser that went to the Australian Save the Children trick. So held a fundraiser and Personal Training Academy donated a certificate of fitness to be auctioned off. And on the day, no one bid for it. So I purchased it for $500 which was super cheap. Yes, super cheap.

So I ended up doing my qualifications. And as I was finishing them, it took me forever, because I never planned to use them. It was out of interest. And as I was finishing, it was a couple years later I finally realised, ‘I should finish this course’. One of my good friends and a friend that I network with sort of said, ‘Oh when did you finish that course’? And I said, ‘Sunday’. ‘Thank God, because—all right. Well, as of next week, I'm training with you, you just tell me how much and how often’, and I was like...

Lisa: Oh my gosh, you're gonna be a trainer.

Tiffanee: Yes. And I was like, ‘Oh, okay’. And then a couple of friends did that. And then next minute, within six months, I was like, ‘Something has to give. I have to start saying no’. But I just looked around and went, ‘There's people that choose this career path that want to be where I am, and grow this quickly’, and I just feel like, ‘I have to give this a go’. I have to feel like I have the right to not throw in the job and give this career path for yes, I've never looked back.

Lisa: Wow, that's amazing. And, you know, when I go to your website and what you do, and the videos of you doing boxing, it's like you are a machine. Girl you are a machine. Your one tough nut. And so who wouldn't want to be trained by you? You mean? Yes, I was looking at you doing your boxing exercises that when you jump and go into the band there. Wow, that's really cool. You know I might finally want to get better at boxing.

Tiffanee: Oh, yes. It's an amazing sport.

Lisa: Yes it is, I mean, I only dabbled in it when I was looking. I nearly did a corporate fight. And then I didn't end up doing it in the end. But the training was great. It was a great thing. So from the fitness side of it, absolutely love it, absolutely get it. It's really, really awesome. And to say, a kick ass girl like you just doing what you're doing. It's like, ‘Wow, that's so cool’. It's like, ‘Oh’. And diving into the hole, this is now my new passion where I need to be hitting. Obviously, the universe is sort of telling, ‘Here. Go here’. And having the net, the courage to jump out of your corporate job was at a big scary moment.

Tiffanee: Yes, look at what it was huge. It was huge on a couple of levels. So there's level number one, where I looked back over a couple of years of doing the corporate fights. And what I saw, when I glanced back was this girl who went from a disengaged employee that just did this job in this industry that she did. And if you ask me now why I did it, I loved it. I always loved my job. And everyone always thought that I was always really passionate and happy at my job, because that's the sort of—whatever I do, I'm pretty into it.

But why I was working at the print industry, just because I fell into it out of school. And so that was my thing. But I looked back and saw this disengaged employee that had over the last couple of years, turned into an engaged employee that turned into a coach and a business owner and an entrepreneur for lack of a better word. I went, ‘Wow’. That wasn't deliberate that happened hand in hand with this stuff that happened in the boxing ring. And I always call the boxing ring walk my metaphor for life.

So my passion when it came to coaching people was understanding. The cool thing was, it gets you super ripped to get you super fit. So people will come to that. They want your energy, and they want your enthusiasm. They want your empowerment and they want your abs. No, that's all this side repercussions. I was like, ‘What I love is that I know that you as a person are changing when I teach you this stuff in the boxing ring, I know what's happening. And you don't even have to know what’s happening’.

Lisa: You’ll look back...

Tiffanee: Yes. But one day, you'll look back and realize your whole life has changed.

Lisa: Very insightful. very insightful. It's really weird, because it isn't about the abs. I mean, like, right.

Tiffanee: Yes, it was funny. I did online coaching—I launched online coaching nearly three years ago, super successful. I launched it. And within the first two months, I'd sold $10,000. And I was like, ‘Wow, I don't have a huge following to be selling it like this’.

Lisa: That's cool.

Tiffanee: But it fell away really quickly, because I found so many people coming to me. I guess I wasn't equipped with my messaging and getting it out there and how to cope with things. But yes, people came to me wanting carbs and counting macros and counting whatever they ate. ‘Wait, we're not counting calories. We're not counting this. That's not my jam. I don't care. Like, yes, you have abs, yes right at the end of this. We're not doing it by measuring stuff and counting things’. So, a passion for that side of things really dissipated.

But one thing I did love about the online coaching was, people would just open up and bare their soul in a way that you don't get when they walk in-person in a boxing environment. You get right to the crux of why am I here. People sitting in front of you saying—you know that they're beautiful, they're not overweight, they're super fit looking, they're gorgeous, and they're saying, ‘Well, I'm fat and when sometimes I don't go out for lunch with my friends, because I'm having a fat day’. I’d be like ‘Wow. I've seen you in the boxing gym for three years. You're so fit and gorgeous. And you’re still sitting there telling me this story’. That's getting stories out of people.

Lisa: And you know, you write them in the online training space. I mean, we have an online run training system and stuff. It’s been through hundred iterations. And it's super powerful in one way, because you can connect with people all over the world, and you can help people... But having their—it's a real struggle to create that energy that you have when you're live in a room with somebody. And so there's this problem between you're only one person and you want to reach a lot of people. You want to help have a massive impact. And then you're struggling with the systems that are available today and the way—and then you're having to learn a whole new language and technology and my God, what. All these marble black things that you have to know what you're doing in the space. And we sort of persevere because we've frickin stubborn.

Neil and I, my business partner and I, had huge learning curves. And by no means have we got it all sussed by any stretch of the imagination. And now we do both. We do the combination of things. And because you need to have one-on-one because you have a high touch and you also hone your skills when you're working one-on-one with people. And when you're in the online space, then you can reach a broader audience. It's more affordable for people. So you want a bit of both. Because when it’s high touch, it costs more, it's just the way it is. And so having that combination of things is really powerful, too. I wanted to dive down a little bit into—we got talking before we started the recording—a little bit about some challenges that you had as a young person, and how that sort of came out in the ring. Are you happy to share a little about that Tiffanee?

Tiffanee: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I spoke to this—just recently shared it for the first time on my podcast. Roll With The Punches.

Lisa: Roll With The Punches, by the way people.

Tiffanee: Roll With The Punches.

Lisa: Roll With The Punches is a podcast.

Tiffanee: Yes, so I guess I found myself at 29, I was inside the boxing ring and I had some really strong traits. And I had a really strong idea around who I was as a person and my identity. And like I mentioned to you before I had all these strengths. And at points inside that boxing ring—the boxing ring is the only place where I feel that even for myself I am unmasked. It's the one place where I can trust who I am. Because we build this identity. And I think sometimes that that identity is so strong that even we…

Lisa: Big believer, aren’t you?

Tiffanee: Yes. I can be the master of having stories and reasons that I believe. So what I see in the boxing ring and it’s this developing a self-awareness, is this raw honesty of how you react before your conscious mind can catch up. So if you're scared, you react before you can pretend anything. You see, if you're aggressive, if you're scared, if you have self-love, if you see all of these things. And it's quite confronting.

I found that within two years of the sport, and I'm now questioning—I'd start to go for walks around town and I would have these memories, I would start thinking of memories of when I was a child. And when I was a child for quite a quite a few years, I was at the hands of sexual abuse from a person, a neighbor, a family friend. And it was something that I'd pushed down and I'd never ever spoken of for so long that I guess it really felt like it never even happened.

Lisa: You thought you’re over it.

Tiffanee: Yes. So here I am strolling along and all of a sudden, that would pop in my head. And I think about running into this person, I'd start to get angry, bad. And I start to think that ‘Why is this coming up. This is weird’. I start to Google it. ‘What are the repercussions of an adult who has experienced childhood sexual abuse’? I had a best friend at the time, who was a clinical psychologist, and we were on a walk and I was like, ‘Oh, so what…’ I explained the question to her, and I remember her answer was like, ‘Ah, no, I haven't dealt with anything’. And I was like, ‘All right’. And then a couple weeks later, we’re there speaking about so and so. And I was like ‘Nah just speaking about myself’? All these frames feel differently.

But yes, basically, I questioned why am I in this boxing ring? Something is drawing me in on a level, because I'm not someone who keeps coming back. I find the next shiny object pretty quickly. I said to you before, when I was at school I was not—I was smoking when I was 14 like smoking cigarettes. I wasn't turning up to do fitness and things. But when it came to sprinting, I'd come first in that 100, 200, 400 meters and anything jumping and I loved it because I was good at it.

The boxing, I never felt I was good at it. It was a skill I didn't have that I had to work hard for. I'd work hard and consistently and self doubt and fear and all of those hard-to-cope-with, confronting emotions and I was doing it. So, I started writing why, what's going on here. And these emotional breakdowns were coming up. And it really just started peeling back that hard shell and making me look at how that experience as a child had changed me. And it really gave me the opportunity to face that.

Lisa: Wow, that's amazing. Because you were digging so deep in some really confronting stuff in the ring. It's sort of opening up your personal—because like you say, you can't run anywhere when you're in the ring, or your boxing, or in your training, and you're pushing your limits and you're feeling fear, and you're feeling anxiety, and you're outside of your comfort zone pretty much the whole freaking time. And that makes you start to think, ‘Well, who the hell am I and what am I doing? And where have I come from? And what am I’?

I mean, for me, and I use ultramarathoning as my metaphor for everything, for obvious reasons. So as you in the boxing ring. I was running. When I started doing ultra marathon, I was running from the pain. And the pain that I felt physically was a metaphor for the pain that I was in internally. For me that's the masochistic side of really pushing my body to the absolute limit in the early days, was about listening in the pain that I was experiencing in my soul, in my heart, in my mind, and the talks of incessant negativity that was in my mind.

I found when I pushed my body and was in pain, and suffering, and pushing to the limits, and achieving things as well, that changed the conversations that I was having with myself, and it opened up avenues for me to let that pain out and to start to work through it and start to heal from it. And then of course, you're surrounded by amazing, incredible people in the sport.

And you're doing incredible things. And then people are starting to say, ‘Hey, that's pretty amazing what you're doing’. And slowly over time, you start to build—rebuild, what's broken inside, and people don't see this on the outside. They don't see the broken heart that's on the inside. When I was young, I had no self esteem, no confidence. I'd never been doing this sort of stuff. Like for God's sake. I was like a timid, very broken person. I hadn't experienced sexual abuse, like you, thank God, in my childhood, but I had been in abusive relationships. And been through that experience, and had some other stuff in my youth, again, through sport, and being pushed too hard, too early in my sport, and things.So I was dealing with a whole lot of crap. In other words, and this was my outlet.

And as time went on, running, rebuilt, who I was and what I thought I could achieve. And when I started to open those doors, just like you've been through in the last few years, it's like, ‘Holy shoot. I can do a heck of a lot of things that I didn't think I could possibly do. And if I can do that, maybe I can do this’. And your horizon starts to open up as to who and what you are and what you're capable of. And in that time, your things are changing as to how you're dealing with stuff because that's the other great thing with sport and training and discipline and perseverance is you start to develop a toolbox of ways of thinking, of skills, of ways of managing your emotions, and you learn all these tricks.

And then when you dive into the whole world of epigenetics and you start to understand your own genes, that's the next level stuff. You start to realize, ‘Hey, I’m on this chemical bomb and I've got to move and I've got to do my breathing and calm myself down. And I know when to turn myself on. When to push and when to pull back’. And you know, come 52. So I'm starting to slowly work stuff out, not touch wood. I can still have breakdowns quite regularly. Don't get me wrong. But you know what I mean? And you start to feel as if like, ‘Ah, this is sort of making sense’. And then you know, as you get older, life’s even more shitty. So you've got stuff to look forward

Tiffanee: Yes. I can’t wait. I can’t wait.

Lisa: But you know, you've got some—at least some coping mechanisms or some ways of dealing with it. So what started to come out? So how did the sexual abuse as a child? I mean, a lot of people have been through this. And it's so cool that you're willing to share it because it is about how is it affecting you today as an adult, what happened to you back then. Because it's this stuff, that programs your subconscious, and you don't even know it?

Tiffanee: Oh, big time, big time. I'm taking it back into the boxing ring. What I saw in there, and it was a real strength in the boxing ring. So what I saw in there was this inability to connect with emotions in the moment. So I was a very technical boxer. I was inside. And I wasn't—definitely wasn't talented. In fact, in that first fight, I think everyone with myself and everyone around me was like, ‘Oh shit, look at this chick. How are we gonna fix this in 12 weeks’? We only sparred once or twice before the fight. And the time that we jumped in and sparred, the trainer came over and he said, ‘Is that the first time you've sparred’? Then he goes, ‘Wow, you did really well’. So you can't tell what you're gonna be like in any situation. So I did really well.

But what made me do really well was this inability to connect and feel and deal with emotion. So I had built this coping mechanism that I guess it was: accommodate what's happening. Accommodate what's happening. Emotions will come back in three days later.

Lisa: Yes, yes. That’s called compartmentalising. And there can be a real strength, compartmentalising, being able to not be emotional in the moment.

Tiffanee: Yes. And in most of my early fights, I'll walk back to meet the enemy like, ‘What happened’? Really, my awareness in there was, I was just on full fight or flight. Go. I couldn't feel the punch. It’s winning and losing felt was ours. My defenses weren't great. But I was strong. And I was resilient. And I would just walk in and I would go. I knew I was there for a job and I'd do it.

Over there, what I found really interesting—so I guess let me talk about what connected with me there, was that idea of: I resonated with standing inside a boxing ring with somebody that was standing in front of me that was there as an opponent to inflict pain. I resonated, that there was all of this support on the outside, but none that could step inside and help me. I resonated with the fact though in this ring, they could see, I got a chance to show them that this is happening to me. And I'm going to come out on top and I can handle this.

Lisa: Wow.

Tiffanee: It was all this stuff. It took a lot of looking at that and writing it out and seeing how it felt to say and think like that, to know whether it connected.

Lisa: Very intuitive.

Tiffanee: Yes. So, in 2015, I left work and became a coach. So I stopped competing for a little bit just to adjust and get in three years passed before I hopped back in the boxing ring. And when I did and that was only last year in 2019 or 2018. Sorry. I jumped back in the ring, and simultaneously as I opened two gyms. But mind you, so I don't know who whatsoever. Does it all at once. On that person, whoever it is.

So I jump back and walk through. And my biggest curiosity—I don't say fear, I say curiosity—was in that time, I've done a lot of work. I've done a lot of therapy. I'd sought out help. I knew what I needed to resolve in relationships—and we can touch on that later. You wish but I knew that my biggest strength is inability to connect with emotions had now been tampered with a lot and that I'd worked on that. And I thought—to be honest in working on it, it crossed my mind. ‘If I touch this area of myself, I'm changing who I am as a boxer. So how much does it mean to be this boxer’? Yes. Oh, yeah. ‘How much of my identity revolves around that because of it. Because I don't play in this space’...

Lisa: You may not be the boxer that you were prior when you were emotionlessly be.

Tiffanee: Exactly.

Lisa: Yes. Can resonate with one.

Tiffanee: Yes. So I went back and I went to training and I remember I had a hard trainer. I've had a few trainers over time. He was my first amateur trainer, really loved his style of training. But you know, I think million dollar baby. He was brutal. He was… Yes, he did not come without the work.

So I went down and trained with him. And at this gym down in Dandenong. A lot of—mostly male boxers there. Quite an intimidating space, really. I hadn't sparred or done anything for a couple of years. Aside from the—I had to throw the gloves on, hit the bag occasionally.

And I remember jumping in the ring with one of his fighters, and he was a southpaw. He is a heavy hitter, he has a—without even trying he lands these punches that are like a freight train. Hitting like a really strong lad. And I hopped in the ring. And I wore an [31:08 unintelligible] that I thought broke my nose. So I've never had a broken nose.

Lisa: Pretty pretty nose.

Tiffanee: I know I always thought I've got quite a—for the listeners, I've got quite a sharp pointy straight nose that you just wouldn't think that a boxer could hate this nose. Basically the amount of punches are away. Anyway, he lives in Africa. And I thought, ‘For sure that’s broken nose in it’, quite a lot. I felt anxious. And it was the first time three minutes felt like three years in there. And I remember being hyper aware that my heart was—I felt naked. ‘I knew that you can all see my emotion. I'm feeling it. And I don't want to be here’. And I feel like for the first time I don't even want to finish this round. I felt so exposed. And yes and it told me you know, all I needed to know was ‘Yep, things have changed’, but that in itself was beautiful. I went back to boxing not for boxing sake. Also I boxed not for boxing sake for the sport but for getting a handle on who I am. And saying that—it's like my… Like I said it’s like...

Lisa: Like your measuring stick?

Tiffanee: Yes, yes, absolutely.

Lisa: So, are you competing now. Or are just back from the competitive side so that you can focus on all this sort of stuff?

Tiffanee: COVID certainly—well, by the end of last year, I'd burned myself out again because I was the head of all the gyms and all the training. I was doing way too much. Now that I know my about my health side, I understand what has always pushed me to the break point, into that zone.

Lisa: Yes. People, so sorry. We're talking about the language. So we are very similar health type. So we tend to—just for the listeners, we have a lot of adrenaline so we go, go, go until we go bang, and then we’d crash. And recognizing that pattern and because we're both very similar—similar place in the wheel, and is a really important thing so that we don't burn out so that we learn to back off before we have the crash. It’s not great

Tiffanee: Yes, as an activator. So I would get up at 4:30 and I would do a five hour shift holding pads in my gyms. Then I'd drive down for an hour and I'd gonna do a two—usually a two hour boxing session but we're talking three minute rounds and probably sometimes up to an hour straight of sparring. So it was two hours of high intensity brutal work yet five nights a week. So I look at that and I'm like, ‘Okay, well activators aren’t built for to last in. It's no wonder’. But before knowing about epigenetics, I was just like, ‘I don't know why I'm burning out’.

Lisa: Pretty obvious now.

Tiffanee: I mean, it should have been obvious anyway.

Lisa: It’s also not born for running for days on end either. As I found that quite later to piece through.

Tiffanee: The Crusader coming through.

Lisa: The Crusaders a little bit more. But...

Tiffanee: Yes, it's kind of nice to be on the cusp of both.

Lisa: You get to have the best of both.

Tiffanee: Yes.

Lisa: You mucked up both ways. But did you see—did it change? Doing this emotional work, and she—and I've never seen this before. But, I often get asked, ‘Why are you not doing ultra marathons now’? And one of the reasons was obvious. My mom got sick and my whole life focus changed. And then you know, life's come at me with a full throttle and I haven't been able to do that. I can't dedicate 20 hours a week to my sport anymore. It's just impossible.

But on the other side of that equation is that I've now spent so long studying the body and human physiology and epigenetics and all the rest of the stuff that I actually don't want to do that to myself anymore because I want longevity and I want health and I am 52. And I did it for 25 years and my body isn't the same. And I've taken some health hits from it.

I also have been in a place in my life where I feel like in the early, long part of my career, I felt like I had to prove something to somebody. And I was doing it to be something, prove something that I was tough, that I was strong, that I was able, because I've always been told, ‘You’re useless and weak, and you can't do this’. So that was my reaction to try to prove that I now no longer have that desire, and therefore the hunger is gone. If that makes sense. So I no longer have that absolute desire to go through whatever it takes to the finish line, and you need it in that sport. if that's what you—if you want to reach the top.

And that played with my identity for a long time. ‘Then who am I if I'm not that tough, you know ultramarathon running girl’? And now I'm like, ‘No, actually I've got bigger, different’, or should I say, ‘different things to do on this earth. And that was a great time. I've taken these great experiences that I can now share. And it's okay to be doing—being a badass in other ways’. And that's okay.

And I think a lot of athletes have this real difficult time when they shift from their active career into something else and feeling like you are nobody now. And that is not true. You now have a huge amount of things. You're not starting from scratch, you're starting from a place of wisdom and you've got these experiences that now you can move forward and—just pushing, repeating. I've seen some of this in a few other athletes—really top level athletes, who I've had conversations with and they've said to me, privately, ‘I don't want to be doing this anymore. But I don't know who I am if I'm not doing this’. And that's not a good place to be.

It's time to do something different. We've got a short life, we want to do some—we can move on without feeling like we're losing ourselves. It’s as surprising that as a change in the transition. Does that make sense?

Tiffanee: Yes, I love that you asked this question because in my early podcast, I've tried—a couple of times attempted approaching this question. But I felt like I hadn't quite landed where I wanted it to with the people. So my question, because boxing is one... Because of my experience when I say boxers, when I walk into a boxing ring and somebody walks into the boxing club, especially a female. Through the first fight, we got to know everybody so you know everyone that you're training with. And I remember saying—I hadn't said this before—I remember saying in the early days, to like my parents, ‘I'm the only one there without a story. Ah, people have had marriage breakdowns, oh they're on drugs, oh they've got this, oh they've got that. They've got this big story and I'm just there like, this is me little not—no self-awareness me going’. Obviously I have a great time because I'm awesome. You know, like, did I not know what was coming.

Lisa: You did have a story. Everyone has a story. Everyone.

Tiffanee: Yes. And that's why I really connect with people in the boxing ring and people that walk in all boxing gym. You know that there's this deep story, don't know whether they know it or not. And I asked that question a couple of times to various people in this space, ‘If, do you think that the reason—so we have this we all have this drive to success, but what is the reason that’... The only thing that makes us succeed in one thing is this yearning desire for a resolution on some level.

Lisa: Yes.

Tiffanee: And we're either aware of it, or we're not. If we weren't totally fulfilled in all areas of our life, we wouldn't—especially when it comes to things like boxing or ultra marathons where it's attacks on your bollock. I have a friend and she's a really good friend of mine and we both started boxing, Judith Courtney I spoke to her on the first fight. For a couple of years, her life really revolved around boxing, again someone with a story and a metaphor and it was strong. But boxing meant so much it was her identity at that time on such a level.

But when you break it down, especially for boxing, especially for females, especially for Australia, you know like it's sport where the decision is based on a couple of factors sitting around the ring saying whether you want to last. You know, it's an opinion based judging system. And it's often tampered with whoever decides. ‘What are you scoring? And well I like this style of fight, so I’m gonna score it this way.’ So you’re putting your head, your self worth and your identity, and your win right into the hands of other people.

And boxing is a sport, especially for females, especially in Australia, where if you're not in, if you don't have a passion for it, nobody knows anything. If you walk out and say some of the top boxers in Australia's names to 90% of the population, they'll go ‘What? Who’? They take someone in just doing amateurs. You know, I know some of the top amateurs in this space. But if I say their name to most people, they'll go,

Lisa: ‘No idea’. You know, famous...

Tiffanee: Yes, exactly. So it's like, ‘What do we fight for’? You’re putting your body on the line. Yes, and this one fight this one result? This means the world to you. But guess what? We all want you to win, you might want you to win. Yes, the accolades are all waiting for you. But at the end of the day, too much time, you’re just saying you.

Lisa: They don't believe the hype and that's a really good point. Sometimes, when you get even into podcasting, or you're in the public eye, and you get people telling you, ‘you're doing great, and you're amazing, and you're awesome’. Never believe that shit. Totally, they go to your head, because this is real. And you want to take your cues from the people that you love and respect and that are close to you at all times. Never take your cues from people— and this is not to—it's fantastic, having people love what you do and things like that. I’m not saying that. But what I'm saying is don't ever let that stuff get to you because it will change you.

Tiffanee: Because what you’re doing is not who you are. And if people are loving you for what you do, you stop doing it and they drop away.

Lisa: They drop away, and then all of a sudden you think... So in other words, just like in the boxing ring with the dudes in the corner are judging you and they have control over how you feel about yourself. If you lose, you're nobody you know. And if you don't finish that ultra marathon or you failed, not in my camp, that's not the way I operate it. That's not the way I coach. People who put in the hard work, do the discipline, go through the life-changing training, start on the startline, those are the people that I'm stoked about.

What happens on the actual day, and you're going through the race, that's all up to the gods really. Hopefully, you give it your all. And if you gave it your all, then that's all you had to do. You gave it everything, you prepared your body right, you did that... Whether you won last, didn't finish, whatever, that's all about the learning curve. And then it's about standing back up again. So don't like—failure is— people say, ‘Oh, you know, you learn the most in failure’. Well, it's damn true. You do. And it's not pleasant always. But the journey in other words, the journey as we are doing the changing and developing and stuff. It's not all about race day or boxing day in the ring. It's all about the rest of the stuff.

So, Tiffanee, you've done a project recently, and you're talking about on your recent podcast. You've sort of wanted to help people with paramedics. You were talking to—the trauma that they go through and or first responders in general. What was the correlation there between what you do and how you've been helping in that arena?

Tiffanee: Yes, cool story. So when COVID hit— so, a couple years ago I did a camp with Craig Harper. I was on Craig Harper's podcast quite a bit. And he does a camp once a year for people to go down and spend three days, bit of luck, self-development camp, it's amazing. And I met one of the paramedics there two years ago. And from that, I'd done some boot camps and things a couple years ago with them. Now when COVID hit, Ryan had put a message in the Facebook group of support to the paramedics who was single, who will go into isolation, and it was gonna be a shitty time.

And I commented on that, and I was like, ‘You're amazing. You're such a good soul’. And so she rang me up, she said, ‘I've got this idea. And she goes, ‘I'm going to get some funding together and give you a gig helping us stay fit online. So we're going to create a wellness hub’. Yes, so I put together this training program. And with that, I said, ‘Let's get together on Friday afternoon and feel good Friday, and we'll have a drink or whatever I have... Honey, soda water or just get together so people don't have to be alone’. And that quickly evolved into getting speakers on which involved into—evolved into this podcast.

But, I found myself connect really strongly with paramedics and it was around this boxing analogy in my experience. But what I connected with is I look at these people, and they've chosen a career where they where they walk into trauma. And into walking into that trauma, in order to be a great paramedical first responder or a law enforcement officer or firefighter, you have to train yourself the ability to suppress emotions.

So the first thing I saw was all you guys suppressing emotions. And I saw what that did to me. And I saw how that played out and the negative repercussions that I had to deal with. So I realized that this connection, there’s curiosity around these people and why do they deal with it, and what are their levels of self awareness? And how is it playing out for them? Is it playing out for them? Is it the same thing? Or am I on the wrong track? I'm still asking that question. And I've had so many conversations around it. And it's funny because I'm like, ‘Oh my god, you just these Tasmanian chicks sitting in front of my phone, zero qualifications in this area, but a huge amount of curiosity’.

Lisa: Would you let that stop you Tiffanee?

Tiffanee: Well, that's it. And I've sort of gone. I just—from any of the research that I've done, I haven't come across anyone asking these questions. Sometimes you find out great answers from a place of complete ignorance. And that's definitely where I come from in this space.

Lisa: You ended up making conversations, and you're living here. Our first responders—I come from a—as I was saying before a family, firefighters, my dad, my brother, my husband, all firefighters. And they are exposed to inordinate amounts of horrific situations, let's just be honest, and the trauma that they go through, and that they see is a very big impact. Without getting into any details, like my husband's lost a few friends over the last few years to suicide. And to say it's not job-related, and we don't know all the details and so on, but it can be bloody well, bet your bottom dollar. A lot of it is what they've seen, what they've been through, and the lack of support around them.

And especially I think, for me, they're expected to be tough and handle the gentle. And when you are—you have to be able to function in these sorts of traumatic situations, which is super, super important. You also need to not suppress our emotions and to realize we're humans that have emotional responses to what we're seeing. And that needs to be dealt with some freaky now, and I don't—you don't have the answers. I don't have all the answers, but we need to shine a light on it. And say, ‘Hey, people in all of these really caring professions—doctors, nurses, first responders, all of these people. We want these people to be compassionate, we want them to have a high level of humanity. And we need to support them in what they're doing and what they're facing and what they're seeing in the aftermath of that’. I don't think I could cope with it. Day in and day out. It's pretty phenomenal the job that they do,

Tiffanee: Oh, it's huge, it's huge on an emotional level. And then on top of that, after looking at them, that these guys are—they're working under those conditions. But then just the conditions of shiftwork and which affects their diet, their exercise, their everything that creates a being that is resilient, is getting sorted out the walkthrough. It’s getting poked and prodded in every direction and then put into such a high-performance environment. I sat down with a friend of mine who has just recently joined the police force, and obviously he was getting into the academy and I was like, ‘Oh, no, whoa’.

Lisa: What are you doing?

Tiffanee: I said to him, ‘We want to have you on a podcast’. He says, ‘Give me a few years in the force’. I'm like, ‘No, right. because this may seem with you having breakfast asking you in your first year of becoming a police officer’, because he said, ‘Uh, yeah, I've become hyper vigilant from day one is now when I walk into a restaurant I check the exits I check the things’. That doesn't happen without your body...

Lisa: Responding.

Tiffanee: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Your amygdala switched on. You're having these physiological responses. You're putting yourself into hyper awareness all the time. You can hear. When you start responding to things like you said, you hear a certain language or something in a background conversation and you become aware of it like that you switched on, switched on, switched on.

Lisa: I can see it on my mind, my husband. you know, like, if I put the smoothie blender on, without telling him, his cortisol is up like that. He's very sensitive to loud sounds. In their job, they're exposed to the sirens and tones going off all the time. And so he's hyper responsive to those noises, the phone going. That in every single time it sends his body into a fight or flight, and trying to help him sort of bring that down really quickly, but that’s what they’re programmed. 23 years of responding to tones.

And in the middle of the night when you're in a deep sleep phase, and then, whatever the case may be, that stuff has an effect on your—you just constantly—and you think about it, like a bus will go past and lead out to your brakes. Immediately the—’what's happening’? It's just because they're good at their job, they're good at responding really quickly. And it keeps them in a state of—for the next couple of hours, the body's got a whole lot of cortisol running around, and that puts up your blood sugar levels, and that causes insulin resistance, and that causes weight gain. And all of these knock on effects.

Tiffanee: Yes. A conversation I always have is, there's no divide between your physical and your mental health. I'm a different person mentally, when I'm underslept, undernourished, and your physical body creates the chemicals that give you mental balance and equanimity.

Lisa: Yes. And this is why I think like, why I love epigenetics is in the programs that we both do, because we can help people look at the chemistry and the hormones, it's because they all want to know about the food and the exercise. But actually understanding your hormones, your personality type, what part of your brain you use the most, how you respond in different situations, and from a genetic perspective, really helps you understand how to get the best out of your body and not to play into your problem.

So we both been very close to being very similar body types. We know we need movement. If you stick me at this desk all day, I'm going to be one angry person. I need regular movement breaks, I need little bits of food. I need, throughout the day, I'm burning very high. And I need them to shut down at night. I know all these things. So I'm called constantly aware of those, and that helps me balance out. And I wouldn't say, I've got the site's down because, gee sometimes I still have big meltdowns. But I'm watching myself—even when I have a meltdown, and I lose control whether I'm crying or I'm angry, or whatever the case may be, I'm watching myself, and I'm observing my behavior. And I'm thinking, ‘How did I do that? And why did I do that? And how do I bring myself back down’? So we're really on bringing awareness to the problem, even when I haven't mastered it, if it makes sense.

Tiffanee: Hmm. We're talking about conditioning. And you asked earlier how some of this conditioning plays out from the abuses. And what I noticed over the last few years was this accommodating—like my first response to things is to accommodate. So what I would find is I'd have constant—I remember having a conversation. I can't remember conversations. I remember being at work, I was a trainer and the owner of the gym and said, ‘Oh, can we do blah, blah’? And almost before people finished speaking, I'm like, ‘Yes, yes. Yes, cool, cool’. I just—I don't want conflict, I just want to be everything for you. Whatever you need

Lisa: Whatever you want me to be

Tiffanee: Yes. And then I'd find myself laying around a bit like, ‘Did I just agree to that’? You know and it took me a long time to realize that, ‘Ah, this is a conditioned response that you will accommodate the other person and it doesn't matter what you think or feel because you don't think or feel right now. You just accommodate and deal with it later’.

And so what I've learned to do, which is hard for activators because we like to react and to respond. What I've learned to do is listen, try, and think and feel in the moment and then say, ‘Can you give me a day or so before I commit to that’? So this new setting boundaries. I don't have boundaries before, zero boundaries. So it was kind of a—I used to just dodged through life trying to keep massive distance between people because I didn't know how to set boundaries. So it just would avoid it and avoid conflict. And yes, so that was my way of keeping myself safe then. But now it is, I just say, ‘Hey, I think that that sounds good. But do you mind if I just commit and get back to you’...

Lisa: And that though, is a perfect answer. I really, really struggle with this. I'm still struggling with this one as my business partner Neil is like, ‘Just stop doing stuff for people and saving everybody in the planet. You've got to make a living’. And I’m like, ‘I know, but that other situation, that situation, excuse, excuse, excuse’. And I'm like, ‘Listen to yourself. You’re burning yourself out. You can't put your resources into our things. You're not helping them’. But you know, I'm like, ‘I know, I know. I know. But’... It's something I struggle with on a day to day basis, because I just want to heal the world, fix everything.

I have to make a living. I have to have money in my bank. Now. I can't just do what I want. And I really struggle with it. I really struggle with saying no. And that no is a perfect answer. And that's definitely a work in progress. You know, on the other hand, it's like, ‘Okay, well, deal with things that you know that you can be’. But it's hitting boundaries because I do burn out because I'm doing too many things with too many people and trying to help, too. And spreading yourself too thin and then you don't do a good job. That's the other thing

Tiffanee: Yes. And maybe beat yourself up over it.

Lisa: Yes, then you fail. It’s an ongoing problem.

Hey, look, Tiffanee, I've taken up so much of your time already. It's been absolutely fabulous to have you on the show firstly. And to get to know you. I think we'll be doing things in the future together, I hope because you're a pretty cool young lady. I think you're amazing. I want people to go and listen to Roll With The Punches with Tiffanee Cook. And Tiffanee, where else can people can find you if they want to reach out to you after hearing your amazing story and what you do?

Tiffanee: They can find me on Facebook, Tiffanee Cook, Tiffanee, with a double E. Or @tiffaneeandco Instagram. More @rollwiththepunches_podcast on Instagram. Yes, all the usual places.

Lisa: Okay, we'll grab all those links on getting seen them all over to me and we'll share them in the show notes. Tiffanee, thank you so much for being on the show today. It's been absolutely fabulous.

Tiffanee: Lisa, I have loved it. Thank you.

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this fast-paced world, it seems the only way to move forward is to push harder and harder. But where is this relentless rat’s race taking us? Never has there been a higher prevalence of chronic disease and mental health disorders globally. If we want to change this dynamic, we must understand that rest, recovery and effective stress management are equally important in driving results.

Neil Wagstaff joins me in this episode where he explains the science behind stress. He outlines the various stages in the stress curve to help you identify where you might be in the spectrum. We also talk about the importance of awareness. With a better understanding of stress, it’s possible to make small lifestyle changes to reduce its toll on you and take greater ownership of your health.

Don’t miss this episode if you want to develop your resilience and learn effective stress management!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

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Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Understand stress better by learning about its symptoms. 2. What is homeostasis, and what are the stages of stress? 3. Discover the importance of awareness in stress management.

Episode Highlights [03:15] Defining Stress * Stress is a normal part of life. It can be good if it’s used in the right amount. * Picture stress as a bucket. When the bucket is filled in too quickly, it can overflow. * With proper balance, stress can be managed, and you can avoid the bucket from tipping over. * The Goldilocks Principle shows that the amount of load or stress we put on our body should be well-balanced to get a positive result out of it. * Stress should be balanced with recovery to get optimal results.

[11:59] Symptoms of Stress * Feelings of depression, anxiety and anger start to rise in times of distress. * A weak immune system reflects stress in your body. * Stress happens when there is a lack of balance between work and recovery, when there is a lack of resilience. * Take the time out, time to reflect and to show gratitude so you can move forward.

[20:13] Health and Homeostasis * The goal is to maintain homeostasis, when the body is well-balanced and stable. * The alarm stage usually comes after experiencing homeostasis, especially when you’re anticipating something new or big in your life. * This can bring about an arousal of emotions, which can be overthrown using stress management techniques. * Being always on the go can lead to chronic mental health problems like anxiety and depression. * The key to maintaining homeostasis is giving yourself time to recover.

[24:16] The Resistance Stage of Stress * After the alarm stage comes the resistance stage, where you actually put stress on your body. It is when you can feel really stuck. * This stage can result in a chronic state of exhaustion. * This puts you in the position to address the stressors by changing habits, perceptions and behaviours to bring back homeostasis.

[26:41] The Exhaustion Stage of Stress * This stage happens when your stress peaks and things get out of control. * We want to prevent reaching this stage as much as possible. * Stress can activate the body’s fight or flight response, which can have a negative spiral effect on the body, both physically and mentally. * It is crucial to bring awareness to your behaviour and decisions when in the exhaustion stage to avoid spiraling down further.

[31:41] On Awareness * Increasing our awareness around stress and personal wellness has made a big difference on the things we do. * Individuals with lower awareness tend to externalise their problems and not have control of their lives. * The greater your awareness, the more likely you are able to take ownership of your problems and control your mood, health and how you look at the world. * Awareness is also vital for teams. It allows you to help your teammates and prevent things from spiraling out of control. * It starts with being aware, but you don’t have to tackle your problems all at once. There is no instant fix, not even coaching.

[36:16] 7 Questions to Increase Awareness * What is the biggest stress you have at the moment, and how is it expressing in your body? * What normally causes stress for your body? * How is stress showing up — does it come in certain environments? * When is stress showing up? * What can be done immediately to alleviate the feeling and support your biology? * What can you do to manage your stress response better? * Finally, what are the long-term strategies you can implement to lower your residual stress?

[42:36] Stress Management: Start with the Small Things * Look after your stress like you look out for your body. * Do any mobility work (or breathing work) that is right for your biology. * Spend time with nature. * Perform habit stacking or the art of doing simple things to get complex things done every day. * Start doing things in practice to increase your awareness.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘...the resilience is found in rest. But society will say to us that resilience is found in pushing harder, pushing, doing more, doing more and doing more, but it's found in rest’.

‘So this is why it’s important to remember, in daily life and business, you need the recovery aspect in there. It should be like a training program’.

‘Finding joy in something is the real key to my mental balance. I’m not being selfish when I take half an hour to paint a picture. I’m not being selfish — I’m being sensible, and I’m looking after my own health, and therefore, the health of my loved ones’.

‘Sometimes the answer isn’t actually just addressing what’s under your nose and addressing your work. It could be addressing your food, your movement, how you’re looking after your mind and all those things. And then change your perception of work totally so you can manage it a whole lot more effectively’.

‘It's really important for corporate teams or sports teams to start recognising signs and others. And if you are more aware than the other person, then you can help them more… so that you can actually prevent things from spiraling out of control’.

‘If you find yourself blaming everybody else for the situation, then you're probably not very aware of things that are going on because you're just externalising. If you're moaning a lot… Then you might want to have a look at the way that you're actually processing things and understanding things and take more ownership’.

‘You don't have to tackle the whole thing at once. But it's being more aware. Am I a person who goes through life blaming everybody else, blaming the system, blaming that? Or am I someone who does something about it, takes ownership, starts to make a change in [my] own life’?

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week everyone. I hope you're having a fantastic December. Can't believe we're already here, Christmas is just around the corner.

I have an interview today with Neil Wagstaff. He's a repeat offender on this show. And I love having my business partner and my coach, exercise, science men, Neil Wagstaff with me. And we're going to be talking resilience and stress, how to control stress, how to understand what it's doing to your body, and some of the techniques and things that you can do to cope with stress. And I really hope you get benefit from this episode.

It's an ongoing theme. We have lots of stress in our lives generally. We live in stressful environments, we've got families and financials and sicknesses and illnesses, and all sorts of things that we have to deal with on a daily basis. So here's some really good advice and tips around managing stress and being resilient.

Just before we head over to the show, please give the show a rating and review if you enjoy it. And make sure you share it with your friends and family. And if you're looking for stocking fellows, make sure you head over to my shop on lisatamati.com, my website. You can check out my fierce jewelry collection, there you can check out my books.

And of course, if you are having trouble with any sort of health issues, or you've got a big goal, or you want to deal with some mindset issues, I am taking on a very, very small number. I've pretty much meet the quota. But I've got a couple more spots left. If you want to work one on one with me reach out to lisa@lisatamati.com. And I can send you information about my health optimization coaching.

Okay, now over to the show with Neil Wagstaff.

Lisa: Well, hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits this week. Today I have my wingman Neil Wagstaff, with us again. My gosh, you're coming on the show a lot, now, Neil.

Neil Wagstaff: Like you make me feel really popular, man. I love it.

Lisa: It's really good to have you here because you just got so much knowledge. And it's just fantastic being able to share all your knowledge with everyone out in podcast land. So if you're a new listener to the show, thanks for dropping by. And if you're returning listener, thanks very much for coming back again and please don't forget to give us a rating and review. We love hearing from you guys and you reaching out.

Now today, the subject is stress and how it affects your body and health. A big topic for so many people, especially given 2020, it's been a disastrous year on many, many fronts for many, many people. Certainly been the worst one of my life. So we're going to talk about how to deal with stress, how to recognize the signs and symptoms of when you're getting overstressed, how to just to manage your physiology so that you can get the best out of your life without tipping yourself over the edge. So Niel, over to you. More to say what’s it all about.

Neil: Firstly, it is a normal part of life, it is definitely a normal part of life. And it can be good. It's often given a very negative, negative sort of press and people see it as a negative thing. It can be that definitely, but it's also something we need in our daily life. And something we want—you and I personally we thrive off it and love having things to do, we love being busy and love getting things done. So that's good.

For some of the good stresses that people be aware of when just understanding they're putting them into that stress category is these things will have an impact on our body and can put load on it. And therefore they're putting load on it they can cause inflammation and effectively cause stress of some sort. So exercise is a stress and it's a very good stress if it's used in the right amount. Okay? It can also be bad stress.

Lisa: Dosage.

Neil: Yes, exactly the right dosage. Food can be a stress and it puts a load on our body. Again, use well, it's a good one. Work, again, manage well with good balance is a great stress to have and we all should enjoy doing it. Mental challenge can be a good stress. You like being pushed to our limits, you're definitely a great example of someone who loves pushing the limits, Lisa.

Lisa: Yes, mentally and physically.

Neil: So there are good things in that. New environments, new experiences. They're all great stresses that you can put on your body. General ones on the bad list would be things like poor sleep, and lack of exercise, social stress, prolonged challenge—the stuff that goes on for too long without rest and recovery. And then significant physical or mental trauma as well.

Now if you manage those two buckets. We often talk about the bucket of stress and you have heard us discuss that on previous podcasts as well. But these things, if they're thrown in the bucket, and the bucket gets too full too quickly, then some things on the good list can actually be the things that actually cause the overflow and cause too much stress. But manage well, manage those lists well, and you're going to be in a position that is part of normal life, it should be good. Stress needs to be there. The key thing is that you've got balance with it. And that's what we'll go on to talk about a little bit more, a little bit more today.

Lisa: Yes, so I think things like exercise people don't often recognize as a stress and it can be added into that same bucket. And we have talked about that principle before on the show, where, that can be the stressor that tips it over, if you've already got a very full bucket. So even though you think, ‘Oh, doing my training today is a good thing’. It is, if your body's ready for it, for example. And if you've had a lack of sleep and lack of social interactions and your food was crappy, then that extra stress of exercise, or doing it too hard on that day might not be a good thing. So it's about balancing it. And it's about recognising when your body is in a state of excessive stress.

So now we're going to talk about the Goldilocks principle. And I love the Goldilocks principle, it's pretty much a metaphor for everything in life. The more I study biology and chemistry, the more I start to understand that everything in the entire world is all about the Goldilocks principle. Not too hot, not too cold, not too much, not too little. Just getting it right. So how do we get it right, and what is the Goldilocks principle in regards to stress, Neil?

Neil: What you said, is so true, Lisa. It is so appropriate to so many aspects of life, it really is. One of the examples we often use is quite an easy way to look at it, it is looking from a training perspective, and especially from my background, that's what I understand well.

So when someone goes through a training program, or an exercise program, goes through rigorous exercise classes, you don't want to create a training stimulus in the body. You want to create a effect on the body under load. So you're going to cause some stress, it's going to break it down, so you'll get a response. And it comes up after a period of time and it could be sort of that four or six week period. We then start to get some great results. Otherwise what’s known as super compensation, where your body compensates and responds really well.

Now the reason it does that is because you've put the right load on it. So you put the right amount of stress from an exercise point of view, therefore, you're going to get the nice result at the other side. Now if we do put too much—or sorry—too little stimulus on the body, then the result is going to be smaller, and we won't have such a great result at the other side and four to six weeks time. If we put too much stimulus on, which we see a lot of people doing in our work, and not enough recovery, and you don't get any results at all.

Now stress works in a similar way. And what we're looking at in this example is we want to put stress as in the exercise load on a body to get the result. But in our daily life, should be a similar process. The amount of load we put on our body each day should be enough that we get a great result at the other end.

And we had a, Lisa and I were away doing a court presentation about a week or so ago. And we had a great discussion there with one of the one of the team we're working with. And he gave the example of in sport like I've just given, you've got the chance to recover. Now in business and daily life, you don't often get the chance to recover. So you have these periods which becomes longer and longer and longer, where you're putting yourself under excessive load to get a result. But you missed that super compensation because the amount of load you're putting on means there's no recovery and that means that the result you get it, but you get it it's such a hopper that after a long period of time you end up burning out, and that's what we want to avoid. So this is why it's important to remember there in daily life and business you need the recovery aspect in there, it should be like a training program.

Lisa: And there was a really good example last week. High end executives really pushing the limits on a business point of view and in doing that day in day out, year in, year out and leading—but leading to problems. And this is a societal problem where we all under the pump all the time, or a lot of us are. And that does lead and it's trying to manage your—the physiology because our physiology is still old. And the fact that it’s ancient, our DNA hasn't necessarily evolved to our current lifestyle and so trying to manage this as best we can to get the best results.

Now talk about super compensation, I did a really hard CrossFit workout yesterday, and I've got very sore ass cheeks today. So I'm not going to go and smash myself again today, and that because I want that super compensation. The fact that I have sore muscles, sore glutes, and sore legs means and I caused a training stimulus. So right now my body is weaker and I need to give it a bit of recovery, and recovery might mean doing a bit of yoga today and a gentle walk and maybe a light jog. But it doesn't mean going and smashing myself again today because that will likely lead to a negative adaptation. And I want to get the most out of that painful workout yesterday. So I know to back off a little bit today.

And that's what hold training plans are about—getting that combination right and that periodisation right for your particular goal. And that's what we do with Running Hot, with all our athletes that we're training is periodisation. So that they peak at the right time, and they get the most super compensation and not the negative adaptations that can happen when you start to go into that overtraining. And it's quite counterintuitive, isn't it? Because as athletes, you just want to go hard and go hard again the next day and then go home. You've had a sleep, you've had some food, you should be good to go again. But you do need that recovery time, both on a 24 hour hourly basis, as on a monthly basis, as on a yearly basis. So we're going to talk a little bit about that as we go through the session. These are micro and macro cycles we're talking about. So let's talk a little bit about this and what it is to get this just right? And how important the accumulation of stress can lead to your downfall? And why resilience is really found in race?

So what are some of the symptoms for somebody, either as an athlete, or as a corporate athlete, or someone who's got three kids and two day jobs, what are some of the signs that that stress is starting to take a toll on their physiology and on their psychology as well?

Neil: For mental health point of view, we've got people on too much load and too much stress is where depression will start to come in—anxiety, anger. And those feelings, the risk of chronic disease goes through the roof that just jumps up, jumps up massively and puts more load on the body, and then the immune system just starts to drop as well because that additional load, there's no rest on the body.

On the flip side, if you've got the balance just right. So we're talking about that super compensation, you're getting the balance, right, so you're getting that result, then you're going to feel calm, you're going to feel more proactive. There'd be lots of growth and recovery. And from a health point of view, your health is optimised, and your immune system’s strong.

Now, a lot of people we're speaking to in the trap of going hard, going hard, going hard, it’s going hard. And then we get those feelings of anxiety, anger, depression, and more disease issues. As we work through people's blood with them, we're seeing higher risk of disease when we're looking at bloods now than what we have done in the past, which has a bigger impact, obviously, on immune system and future chronic disease as well.

So taking in those and listening, you will have found those times in life where you felt that productivity was good, you felt calm, there was good growth, and you feel on point. I guarantee you, when you look at those times, you'd have had good balance, and you've had enough rest and recovery in the day, in the week, the month, the year. It means that you're getting those benefits you should from a stress management point of view. And some of you listening as well will have experienced the others and most of us—Lisa and I have at some different points in life, where you experienced the anxiety, the anger, because you've got the balance wrong. And that's an easy—easy is the wrong word to use. But once you understand that, it is an easy fix to make.It's just understanding the how to make the fix so you get the resilience.

And as you said earlier in the exercise example, it's counterintuitive because the resilience is found in rest. But society will say to us that resilience is found in pushing harder, in doing more, doing more and doing more, but it's found in rest. And that's where a lot of the happy feelings and emotions are found as well, by taking time out, time to reflect time to show gratitude, and to allow you to move forward. And at the end of the day it's in—you've used this example recently as well, if you haven't been healthy.

Lisa: You got nothing. You have zero.

Neil: Exactly. So you need it.

Lisa: Yes, and I think like that depression, anxiety and anger part of the puzzle. So these are all your neurotransmitters that are at play here. So your dopamine, your GABA, your serotonin, your adrenaline, your cortisol, all of these things that are actual chemical things in your body causing you to feel a certain way.

So when you see yourself—and I mean this is definitely talking to me here. When I see myself getting irritable and angry and snapping and being anxious about the future, then I know, “Hang on.” And Neil will say to me, or my husband will say to me, ‘Hey, you're getting out of control again’. And I’m like, ‘Well, okay, I need to take more time out’. And just sometimes like taking a couple of hours out for yourself is not being selfish. And I really, really struggle with this one because it's for me, it's like a guilt, ‘But I should be doing this’, and ‘I should be doing that’. And I've got a billion things on my to do list. And so I hear the people when they say, ‘But I haven't got time for that’. It's like, yes, but do you want to be an asshole to your friends and family?

Like, if we get down to it, that's what happens, and depressed and miserable and losing the joy of life. When you don't have enough GABA, which is one of your neurotransmitters, and you don't have enough serotonin in your body, that's what you're going to feel. You're going to have lose the love for life, you're going to lose the love for your passions, that your hobbies, you're going to like—not be interested in them anymore, you're not going to have that dopamine hit where you want to get up and go and you're motivated to drive towards something.

So when you feel that those neurotransmitters are off, by just backing off the accelerator pedal, having some time out to do some health and self care, like I love getting into a sauna, or going for a walk, or doing some stretching, or doing some meditation, or breath work for me is huge. All these things help me manage my emotional state and help my body recover. And we often think that, ‘Ugh, I've just got to get over it. And I'll have a good sleep tonight, and I'll be good’. But if you're not giving your body, the right ingredients, the right nutrients, the right time out and play, then you're not going to have the right combination of neurotransmitters running around in your body. And no matter how much willpower you have, you're probably not going to have a positive outlook on life. And it's something I've really had to learn the hard way.

Now, after going through a very stressful few months that I've been through with losing my Dad, I've had to prioritize just doing something I love. And for me that might be—I'm into painting at the moment, following my dad's footsteps, and that gives me joy. And finding joy in something is a real key to my mental balance. I'm not being selfish when I take half an hour to paint a picture. I'm not being selfish. I'm being sensible, and I'm looking after my own health and therefore the health of my loved ones. And that does have an effect on our people around us. And none of us want to be that horrible person that's grumpy all the time. It's not much fun. So.

Neil: Definitely, it’s a great, great example. And thing as well, as people are listening is understanding that what is worked for you won't necessarily work for everyone and vice versa. So it's finding your thing, and your rest and relaxation, self care, it's going to be different for each person. And if you try things, and they're not working for you, resonate with you, then try something else. And once you find your sweet spot, like you described the painting, then you will find those feelings. So, I wouldn't necessarily get it from painting, just because I can't paint.

Lisa: Neither can I.

Neil: There’s other things I definitely get it from. So it’s understanding that you find what's your sweet spot, and what's going to have that impact on your body. Once you understand that, then it becomes a lot easier to do.

Lisa: And don't think you're being selfish because you're doing it. That's the real key message and trying to prioritize us because it's like where the corporate executives last week. You have to perform. Yes, but underpinning your performance is health. So if you don't have health, it shouldn't be something that you optionally do on the side, it’s one of the things you get around to, it underpins everything.

So this is part of your health, regime, your practice. And if you see health and looking after yourself, and that's nutrition, that's fitness, that’s all of those things. If you see that as the foundation on which to build your house, that's a different approach, than to seeing it as a pillar on the side that you want to get around to, that you never do get around to.

For Neil and I, it is fundamental. It is our priority. It is also our business in our case. And we can't be good examples to you guys if we're not performing the best that we can and looking after ourselves. And just reprioritising—having those conversations in your own head is about, ‘it's not being selfish, this is being sensible’.

So now, I'm going to talk a little bit about the stress curves and the phases that you go through from good health and homeostasis, right through the exhaustion stage. Neil, can you explain this concept a little bit?

Neil: Yes, so we look at different stages as we go through the stress curve. So if we're looking at homeostasis, as you saying good health, this is when the body's in balance, and it's stable and hasn't been pushed, there's no stress on it. And we've got in a calm, there's nothing that changes, changing the environment. So that'd be a nice place to be all the time. But most of us would get bored quite quickly, and would generally get anything done. So good space to be for your body but that's the sweet spot. So we want to spend some time in that. And we want to spend ideally some time in that each day, each week, each month, each year, so we manage those peaks and troughs.

The alarm stage, which comes next is where we start thinking, readying ourselves for the future. So this is where we've got heightened awareness, increased speed of thinking, higher attention, and generally a higher state of arousal. Nothing's happening yet, but we're readying ourselves for this. So this one of Lisa’s example, could be getting ready for a marathon, or a race, or a running event. It could be getting ready for a big, big meeting, or big presentation where you're preparing yourself for it. You've been going through the process, your body starts, the blood pressure will go up, heart rate will go up. You get a physiological response going on in your body to prepare yourself to what's to come.

Now that's healthy, if you're not in it all the time. Okay, so that's healthy, it’s good if you're in all the time, we want to be able to ready ourselves for that. Where we're seeing quite a lot of problems at the moment, as people aren't coming out this, they're always on.

Lisa: Staying on the alarm stage.

Neil: They’re always on, they’re always switched on, they're lively. They're always twitchy and ready to go. And if you don't come out of that, then your body's not going to have the chance to recover and you're going to start to get—from a physiological point of view, those stress hormones flying through your body at a great speed. And that's what starts to put more problems on the body and problems with health. And that's where we see more issues with chronic disease and where we see bigger issues and those feelings of anger, anxiety, depression, and mental health.

Lisa: Mental health. I mean, I've got like an example there with just being open about my life with going through the drama with my dad and losing him. And being in that alarm phase, where we're fighting for his life for a couple of weeks in hospital and going harder, harder, in that absolute. I was in the alarm stage, and then the next stage, which is the resistance stage, where you're actually in the doing. And now we lost the battle, in that case.

And now, the anxiety that comes with being in that state for a few months, means that my body needs a massive amount of recovery right now. It doesn't need to be smashed and smashed with really high intensity workouts constantly and I'm slowly—but rebuilding, but it's the understanding that that's had a trauma on your life. And that has led to a very bad state of affairs, as far as all your exhaustion, all your stress hormones were concerned. And if I don't do something about that now, what that could lead to as real big health issues.

And I saw this when I went through it with my mom, four and a half years ago with her journey. I went hard out for the first 10, 11 months like to the point of like, absolutely blind myself to pieces, and I had to because she needed that. But then my body shut down, and then I was in and out of hospital. And I was in shit creek basically for the next year because my body was in that exhaustion stage, which is what we're going to talk about next. And so it's understanding—just as that's an example of my life, but we are going in and out of these stages on a daily basis, but also on a weekly basis and on a monthly and yearly basis.

So we just talked about the alarm stage where you're ready for action, but nothing's actually happened yet. So you're all anticipating and then you're in the actual resistance stage, which is the doing part of putting stress on your body. So you're taking action, you're making your body adjust and cope with the environment and you're in the fight. You're using the fuel and your body is resisting the stress. So this could be doing a workout. It could be situations like I was in, this is where you're going under slipped, maybe you're tired, you're pushing through, your stress hormones are very, very high. And this is a stage you can also get really stuck, isn’t that Neil?

Neil: Yes, it's spending too long here as well. A good example where we see too many people doing it is—I was having this conversation, someone today is just not getting enough sleep. We've all done it where we've had deadline at work or lots going on, but so many people are pushing it further and further and further now. So even though you're tired, you push through, using your stress hormones to stay on it, and there comes a point where your body will just stop producing the stress hormones as it should. And then you're really into the neutral phase. And that's when you start to get the risk of the chronic disease and the other feelings that we talked about—anxiety, depression, and the mental health side of things.

Lisa: There is a reason why chronic disease is just going up exponentially in society today, I mean that and toxins and environment and all that sort of jazz and food chains. But one of the big problems is this chronic state of exhaustion all the time I think, so that actually...

Neil: To add to your point earlier, you shouldn’t add the other things in it like poor food. You then add pollution, you add in toxins we've got around us.

Lisa: Heavy metals.

Neil: All of those things have all increased, and they've increased massively over previous years. And we're looking after our bodies less than we ever have done. So now we're in a position that they add those other things on top, and all of a sudden, the load just comes more and more and more.

So it's been where as well—where your stress is coming from, like we spoke about the start. It could be that simply by changing your eating habits, or the time of day you're eating, and what you're eating, and when you're eating, all of a sudden, that actually takes a load off your body. So you manage your work a whole lot more effectively. Sometimes the answer isn't actually just addressing what's under your nose and addressing your work, it could be addressing your food, your movement, how you're looking after your mind and all those things and then change your perception of work totally. So you can manage it a whole lot more effectively.

Lisa: Yes, absolutely. So the last stage that we wanted to talk about is going into the exhaustion stage, which is what we just explained, Neil, where you're absolutely been on the go for—God knows how many weeks, months, years, and your body is starting to shut down. And this is where you are starting to get chronic problems, and serious ones.

And this is the phase you don't want to get into because this is where you're going to be set on your ass, whether you like it or not, where your health is going to go down like mine did. And you will be forced to take a break. But we want to prevent that whenever possible. I mean, sometimes life is just going to throw a curveball at you. But if you understand this process, and you can perhaps stop getting to that exhaustion stage and understand that those stress hormones, I think most people think, ‘I've heard stress is bad for me. But how is it bad for me’?

Well, if we just go back, and I have talked about this a couple of times, but your parasympathetic and your sympathetic nervous systems, you've got these two systems, your rest and recovery and your sort of go-go-go state of affairs. And that sure is sympathetic, and most of us are sympathetic dominant. We're not having enough time for that rest and recovery, and our ancient biology is just really not keeping up.

And when you are in that fight or flight state, and you've got lots of cortisol and you've got lots of adrenal and you're taking energy away from your immune system, you are taking energy away from your digestive system, you're taking blood flow away from different parts of your brain, so you're not unable to make good decisions. You're unable to digest your food, and then you're affect your absorption. And that can affect your thyroid and it can affect your immune system, and on and on it goes.

So this is how stress actually has a physical effect on the body. It's not just a mental thing. I think people think often it's just a mental—under stress as a mental—no, it's very much a physical reaction of the body about where the body is putting the resources. You have a limited finite amount of money in the bank, or energy in the body, and their body is going to prioritise the areas that are most important.

So if it thinks that you're running away from the lion, it's going to put all the energy into making stress hormones, to making sure your blood is in your muscles so that you can run and you can fight. It's not going to be—in helping your immune system repair. It's not going to be in fighting infection. It's not going to be digesting and this is where the resources are being put. So it's like you spending all the money that you earn from your job in one particular area of your life and not paying the mortgage. That's what's happening. And you need to be paying that mortgage otherwise you're going to lose the house. That's a really good analogy, actually isn't Neil?

Neil: Yes, it’s a great comparison. And it brings us back to where we were talking about the start is where you're allocating your time to. In that example where you're allocating your money to, but if you're allocating all of your funds, all your time to one particular area, then something else is going to suffer.

Lisa: It's going to crash. We like to think we're superheroes and Neil you’re very, very close to being a superhero. But we're not really, we’re not really both.

Neil: Thanks. For me, I’m a little bit of one.

Lisa: Yes, for your kids.

Neil: And understanding as well that these different phases that we've just been talking about. You can go through these levels in one day, which was what we call a micro cycle, or you can over a longer period of time, months, years—go through them as a macro cycle, so a bigger cycle.

So we've talked about what happens if we stay in these phases, each of these phases too long. And Lisa has given some real good examples from her life is what does actually happen, from a mental and physical point of view, as well. So the fact that you can go through them each day, the exciting thing about that is you can put yourself in a position that you can control them each day. So you might feel like it's a big mountain to climb. And you've got to do a lot before you can get a grip of it. But you can actually make some quite significant easy changes each day to mean that you can start going in and out of these.

And sometimes just little micro rests, small rests, small windows opportunity where you actually can switch off the body, switch off the mind. And again, different things work for different people. But once you find your thing, start doing more of it because this will get you longer results in work, family, and sport as well. It applies to every aspect of the puzzle.

We talk a lot as well with getting people become more aware of themselves. So when we talk about awareness, we will look at the load that’s going to put on people's body. And I know that this has made a big difference that hasn't at least just been increasing our awareness around stress and our own personal wellness. And as we've increased that, it's made a big difference to what we're doing. And generally, we've seen those with lower awareness will generally tend to externalize their problems more, lose control more, the factors influencing their mood in life, and often will blame others more—it's someone else's fault, someone else's problem.

The greater awareness is, you’re more likely to take ownership of our problems, more likely to deal with them, and control our mood or health and how we look at the world. So it puts us in a much better position. Generally as well, we've seen that awareness will increase with age, although this isn't always the case.

Lisa: Not always.

Neil: Not always the case, the increase in experience. So as we've dug deeper into the science of what we do, how we do it, is definitely increased our awareness to the point that as we've experienced more things, coach more people through these things, our perspectives changed and as well, the way we self-reflect. And that's all led to low levels of stress because we've now got a better understanding of what's going on, why it's going on, and what load is having on our body so we can do something about it.

Lisa: And we can look after each other better, just as business partners, right?

Neil: Great point. Great point.

Lisa: It’s really important for corporate teams or sports teams to start recognizing signs and others And if you are more aware than the other person is then you can help them more and that is your responsibility then to be aware of other people and their needs around you. So that you can actually prevent things from spiralling out of control, and support each other a little bit better. And back off when things are getting tough for somebody and push a bit harder when someone needs a kick up the jacksy. So it's all about helping others and being more aware.

So if you find yourself blaming everybody else for the situation, then you're probably not very aware of things that are going on because you're just externalizing. If you're moaning a lot, ‘Well this is shit and that is shit. And my boss's this and my things that’, then you might want to have a look at the way that you're actually processing things and understanding things and take more ownership.

I'll give you an example of this with some of the people that come to ask for health problems and health consulting and health optimisation. I can sort of pretty much tell in the first 10 minutes whether this person is taking ownership of the situation, or whether they're just blaming everybody else and they're angry about it, but they want a magic bullet. And the ones who want an instant fix in blaming everyone else and not taking ownership over the situation are very difficult to work with from a coaching perspective and also very unlikely to get great results. And will likely blame you in six week’s time because they didn't get the result.

And they will go through 10 coaches and they'll go through 20 coaches and they will still have no results at the end of it. And it’s not necessarily the coaches’ problems, or the health professional problem, it is often the fact that they are not taking ownership about the things that they can take ownership on, in educating themselves and working on it.

So you can start to work on pieces of the puzzle. You may have a big health issue, for example, and now we work with some people with some pretty serious freaking health issues. And when you can work on a piece of it today and this piece of it, and we can work like a detective, and we can work through problems, you don't have to tackle the whole thing at once. But it's being more aware, ‘Am I a person who goes through life blaming everybody else, blaming the system, blaming that? Or am I someone who does something about it? Takes ownership, start to make change in your own life, and affect what you can as well as trying to influence the world around you’? Does it make sense?

Neil: It makes perfect sense, Lisa. It really does. It's a great, great takeaway for the listeners, as well, just ask yourself that question, ‘Where am I at from a self-awareness perspective with regards to my own personal wellness’? And you can use those examples you just went through there, put a scale on it.

But we've got a great list of questions, Lisa. We can start to get the listeners to use to increase their awareness around their own stress. The thing we wanted to point out as well as we start to wrap things up is that everyone will respond to stress in a different way. So therefore, the way we respond to stress is going to be different. So therefore, the way we manage it is going to be different as well.

So as you're going through these questions, there's no right answer, there's no correct answer. It's an answer that should be individual to you and should be personal to you. So ask the question, What is the biggest stress you've got at the moment? And how is it expressing? What is the stress you're expressing in your body?

Number two, what normally causes stress for your body? So you'll be very aware how your body reacts and feels in different situations. So take time to listen to what it's saying, where you feel stress increasing, you feel your anxiety levels climb, and just feel your body tensing? If you start to get signs and symptoms—and again, it's going to be different for everybody and take note of them and do something about them. We work with so many people that get the signs and symptoms, but don't take note of them and don't do anything about them.

How's the stress showing up? Is it coming in certain environments? Is it around certain people? Is it around certain conversations? So again, ask that question, when is it showing up? When is it arriving? Can you change anything there to make sure it doesn't show up? And what can be done immediately to alleviate the feeling and to support your biology? You made the great reference earlier in the conversation about painting and what that does for you. For me going and moving and I know this works for you as well, Lisa, but going in and moving, getting something, going rhythmical is great for my mind. That could be walking, swimming, running, cycling doesn't have to be anything high intensity, but just movement helps massively. Rhythmical movement will help calm my body, calm my mind.

And what can those around you do to support you? Now as we've been throughout our career as coach and athlete, and now in business, we're very aware of how we can support each other. But that's taken time to have the conversations and work through it and talk to each other about it. I know you do with Haisley, and I do it with my wife, Sam. Once you understand those things, and we've set it up with the people we work with around us as well, it makes a massive difference. If people understand how to support you, and are aware that there's different ways that different people are going to get stressed—what stresses you is going to be different for me. So if I don't take the time to understand that, I'm going to be going through thinking, ‘Now it doesn't worry me, it's not going to worry Lisa’, and that work in both directions.

And number six, what can I do to manage my stress response better? So again, just asking the question would increase awareness. The fact that we're drawing attention to it increases awareness, which means we're more likely to do something about it. Then finally, what are the long-term strategies that I can implement to lower my residual stress? So once I work out the answers to the previous questions, then what can I do long term? And it could be as simple as we're big fans, as we always say, of what's the low hanging fruit? Is it simple now that I go to question five and go, right, ‘What can others do to support me? Am going to make those around me—my family, my friends, my close work colleagues—am I going to make them aware of what's causing me stress, so that they can help me and pull me up’?

Like we do with each other will often pull each other up and go, ‘Right. This is clearly getting a bit much’. Going this direction, we'll do this differently, or you give me time to do things and process things because you know that helps keep me calm. And when you're going fast and hard, I say well, ‘Time to slow down. It's great but you’re getting too excited, come back’. And that works for us. So increasing awareness really does help you get results rather than just accepting that, ‘I'm going to carry on with the back pain. I'm going to carry on the inflammation in my body. I'm going to carry on with the upset stomach. And not connect them back to something external that’s causing it.

Lisa: That’s a really good one because like I had a conversation with someone today and I've got repeated inflammation in the body, repeated pains in the neck, and then not connecting the dots. They connected one dot today that I went, ‘Hah, finally something is starting to drop’. When you are having pains every which way in the body, if your initial thing was to go, ‘Well, I've tweaked my back’. Instead of going, ‘Hang on, why am I having ongoing injuries? Or why am I having a stack of things happening to me? Or why am I getting pains here, and then I'm getting pains there, there's something underlying going on’.

And what we're saying is often that underlying thing is an inflammatory response is related to stress, very often you'll find a component at least of stress. And then it can you know, as we see, it can be from a food stress or toxins, through a psychological stress, from lack of movement, stress, or lack of sleep, dehydration, but these are all forms of stress. And so understanding what is the trigger and trying to connect the dots and this is where that self-awareness.

And in using these simple tools that we've been talking about on this podcast and other podcasts that we've done—the breath work stuff, the meditation stuff, and the movement stuff, the routines for habits, the healthy habits that you develop over time, and you start to stack one on another. And these little things that help you manage your biology, and help you manage your dopamine levels and your serotonin, all your good neurotransmitters, and your hormones and all these things. And it is about tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak, until your life starts to look better, feel better, and be better. And then it will be a constant thing. It's not like you're going to do this once and you're good to go.

Neil and I have a whole lot of tools in our kit that we can pull out in times of stress to help us get through. However, we're still going to have times when we tip out of balance, and then we need each other and their family members and other—my friends to put us back in the balance again, and just make us aware. It's not a one and done thing. It's a constant tweaking, learning, growing process, about trying to keep yourself in a good, a good state, both physically and mentally.

Neil: A lot more and more, Lisa. I'm asking people, it should be like with some of these things that you do to look after your body. It should be like brushing your teeth. I ask the people I'm working with one on one, I say, ‘Right, did you brush your teeth today’? Now know what I mean? I've asked two or three people, really say, ‘We brushed our teeth’. And what I meant was, ‘Have you done any mobility work? Have you done the breathing work and what's right for their biology? Have you been out, spent time in nature, and I might get responses like their response that they're actually a bit fluffy today.

But we do those things every day. And you talk about habit stacking. And it's exactly that. If you can brush your teeth every day, then you can do the other things that will control and maximize your health and do them as well, the simple little things, it’s not just about brushing your teeth. So let's start putting some other things in practice that do that crucial awareness. We don’t do it, isn’t it?

Lisa: We think we have to have the most expensive piece of equipment or the best supplement or the greatest course or—actually if we just did the basics right, often that will give us a good foundation. Yes, we can get fancy fancy stuff later and get more into it if you want to really tweak your biology which we love doing and testing and trialing and experimenting, but just getting those basics right. And yes, making it the underlying underpinning philosophy of your whole life, that has to be at the core of it. Health, looking after yourself has to be at the core of it, and it is not being selfish.

Again, I had someone else today, very stressful life, a lot going on. I’m telling them the same thing we can week out, they're coming back with this problem and that problem, and they're not hearing what's going on, and they're not willing to invest in the right things, or to buy the right foods, or to sit down and actually go through the process of actually making the small changes. Because they want the quick answer and you have to look after yourself and they also don't prioritise themselves. Everybody else comes before them.

And therefore they are going to be unhealthy ongoing until they can come to that point of self awareness that they have to be doing these small changes and getting the micronutrients and avoiding certain things and changing just little behaviors so that they can actually be a good father, a good husband, a good wife, a good friend, a good colleague, whatever the case may be, put your own oxygen mask on first before you help somebody else. It's not being selfish. So I think that's a pretty good place to wrap it up for today, isn't it Niel?

Neil: I agree. Agree. As always good chatting mate, good chatting.

Lisa: Good chatting. And if you enjoyed this, please let us know. We'd love to get here. You know what you thought about the shows that we're putting out, the information that we're putting out. We'd love to get comments and feedbacks, of course rating and reviews are always appreciated. But just yes, if it's helped you let us know.

If you want more information, and of course, we'd love to work with you. Reach out to us as we have our epigenetics program, which is all about understanding your genes and how they interact with the environment and how to optimise and getting rid of trial and error, and knowing what to do for your body. Then we also have our online run training programs, of course, which we love, training athletes, going and doing amazing things all around the place again, or a holistic approach to everything that we do.

So reach out to us, support@listamati.com. We'll find both new life and thanks for listening today. We really appreciate your time and attention. Any last comments, mate?

Neil: I’d like to say good chatting. We're looking forward to another conversation soon.

Lisa: Right. I'm going to go and do some movement in nature. Brilliant. We'll see you next week, everybody.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Whether you are a beginner or experienced ultramarathon runner, you need to be well-prepared for every run you do. Ultra running has its bright side — the uplifting community, the sense of accomplishment, and the goals of becoming stronger. However, there are certain risks involved in the sport, and as an athlete, you need to keep yourself informed.

In this episode, Eugene Bingham joins me to explain the dangers of extreme sports and marathons. We share personal stories about the damage it could do to the body — experiences that should serve as a warning to runners. Eugene also discusses things to be aware of before and during races that can endanger us, giving us five specific tips for preparation and self-management.

Don’t miss this episode and learn more about the risks of and preparations for ultra running and other extreme sports!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition, and mental performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

One-on-One Health Optimization Coaching If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research, and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn about the risks and dangers of extreme sports and ultra running. 2. Gain valuable insight into the things you need to be aware of before and during marathons. 3. Understand the importance of listening to your body.

Resources * Death of a runner: The rare condition that tragically claimed a life by Eugene Bingham * Desert Runners on TVNZ

Episode Highlights [04:01] The Dangers of Extreme Sports and Ultramarathons * Eugene participated in the 2020 Tarawera 100-mile race where an experienced runner died. * The runner’s death certificate showed that he had a multi-organ failure, acute respiratory distress syndrome, and rhabdomyolysis. * However, it was difficult to pinpoint the true cause of death since it can be a result of accumulated health conditions.

[09:50] What Is Rhabdomyolysis? * Rhabdomyolysis, or muscle breakdown, is quite common for runners. * As the muscle breaks down, myoglobin from the muscle is released into the bloodstream, clogging the kidneys. * It can be difficult to tell when this happens since symptoms can be easily mistaken for simple muscle soreness. * This can happen to everyone, not just those who do extreme sports and ultra running.

[16:27] Importance of Self-Management * At some point, we have to ask ourselves if the damage we’re doing to our body is worth it. * There are risks, and you have to be prepared for them. * There is a culture of not quitting unless you’re taken by the ambulance. However, we have to listen to our body before it gets to that point.

[20:19] Mental Toughness and Listening to Your Body * As we grow, our physical abilities and mental maturity changes. Accept that the body may not be able to take what it could years ago. * The goal of pushing your limits is good but keep in mind that you also need to train and prepare yourself. * Being mentally tough also means knowing when to stop and rest.

[22:53] Ultra Running: 5 Tips to Remember * Do not take drugs like ibuprofen and Voltaire. * Drink when you’re thirsty and do not over drink. * Be prepared for a range of weather conditions. * The race does not end at the finish line. Replenish yourself after every race. * Look out for each other.

[28:08] Always Have Support * Eugene shares his experience of having hallucinations but was kept safe by his companions. * Form connections and friendships with the people you meet in races. They are bonds that last forever. * Listen to the full episode to hear Eugene and Lisa share more stories about how people have helped them during races!

[38:33] Conditions to Be Aware of * We need to be careful about dehydration. * Symptoms of hyponatremia (having low sodium levels in your blood) are swelling, nausea, and lightheadedness. * Low levels of potassium and electrolyte imbalance can result in tetany seizures. * Electrolyte tablets are beneficial — make sure they have all the nutrients you need. * Having no appetite after a race is dangerous. We need to replenish our bodies straight away.

[47:10] Risks Are Exponential * When you exponentially increase the distance you run, you exponentially increase our risks as well. * All races are relative to pace. Never underestimate a race by distance. * Take every race like a big deal and don’t become complacent. * Recovery after a race is also crucial. Don’t succumb to peer pressure and sign up for a race immediately after.

[51:53] Quick Checklist * Do not expect that you can do it just because you’ve done it once before. * Be aware of conditions such as rhabdomyolysis, heat stroke, hyponatremia, dehydration, seizures, electrolyte imbalances, and breaking ankles. * Plan well — note altitudes and paths. * Running is just like driving. Driving is considered dangerous but we don’t avoid it; we just take extra measures and precautions to make sure that we are safe.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘People need to be really conscious of the risks — they need to be prepared to put the time in. You've got to prepare your body and you've got to know your body’.

‘Having lined up at the start line with someone who didn't make it home — that really reinforces that these are real risks and you have to be prepared for them’.

‘The race doesn't end at the finish. Some of the most dangerous time is after that: when people get to the finish line and drive home, they're tired — you can crash easily’.

‘Sometimes there's a bit of competition, isn't there. But, number one, you've got to look out for each other. You are comrades — you've got to have each other's backs’.

‘It is incredible, those connections you make. Even if you don't see each other again, but yes, you've got that bond. That's forever’.

‘Take those precautions. Just be a bit careful. We want to push ourselves. Yes, we want to be out there. Yes, we want to find new limits, but we also want to get back home’.

‘Respect the distance. You cannot run something like this without respecting it’.

About Eugene Bingham Eugene Bingham is a senior journalist at Stuff, co-host of the Dirt Church Radio trail running podcast with his mate Matt Rayment and an ultramarathon runner. In a career of almost 30 years, he’s reported and produced news and current affairs, winning multiple awards as an investigative journalist. His work has taken him to three Olympic Games, and a number of countries including Afghanistan, the Philippines and the Pacific.

No matter where he goes, he always packs his running shoes. He has a marathon PB of 2h 43m and his longest event is the Tarawera Ultra 100-mile race which he ran in February 2020. Eugene is married to journalist Suzanne McFadden and they have two grown-up boys.

You can listen to their podcast on Dirt Church Radio. You can also follow and support them on Patreon, Instagram, and Twitter.

Have questions you’d like to ask? You can reach Eugene at his email.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be aware of the dangers of extreme sports and ultra running.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript For The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host, Lisa Tamati. Brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of Pushing the Limits. Today, I have journalist and ultramarathon running legend, Eugene Bingham, to guest. And Eugene is the host of the podcast, Dirt Church Radio, which I hope you guys are listening to. It's a really fascinating insight into the world of running and trail running. And he has a really unique style, him and his friend, Matt Raymond, run their podcast. So I hope you enjoy this interview.

Today we're talking about the dangers of extreme sports, not just ultramarathon running, but doing—pushing your body to the limits. While, you know I'm definitely a proponent of going hard and mental toughness and pushing the body and all that sort of good stuff. We also need to know about the downside. We also need to know about the risks. And recently there was a death, unfortunately, at the Tarawera Ultramarathon of a very experienced ultramarathon runner. And so we're going to dive into some of the dangers and some of the things that need to be aware of when it comes to pushing the body to the limits. And so you have an informed consent and an understanding of what you're getting into when you're doing these sorts of things.

Before we head over to the show, though, please give them a rating, review to the show if you enjoy the content. Really, really appreciate the comments and the reviews and if you can do that on iTunes, or wherever you're listening, that would be really, really appreciated. And if you haven't sold your Christmas stocking yet, please head over to my shop and check out my books, Running Hot, which is chronicling all my running adventures in my early days, Running to Extremes. Both of those books bestsellers, and my new book, Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds, which is really a book about overcoming incredible obstacles, the mindset that's required, the stuff that I learned while I was running and how it helped in this very real world situation, facing a very dire situation within the family. I hope you enjoy those books and if you have read them, please reach out to me, give me a review. Again, if you can, I'd really appreciate that you can reach me at lisa@lisatamati.com.

And just a reminder too, we are still taking on a few people, on one on one health optimization coaching, if you're wanting to optimise your health, whether it be with a difficult health challenge, that you're not getting answers to mainstream health and you're wanting some help navigating the difficult waters that can sometimes be, please reach out to us. And we deal with some very intricate cases. And I have a huge network of people that I work with that we can also refer you out to. I am not a doctor, but I am a health optimisation coach and an epigenetics coach. And we use all of the things that we've spent years studying to help people navigate and advocate for them, and connect them to the right places.

And this is a very different type of health service if you like and it's quite high touch and it's quite getting into the nitty gritty and being a detective basically. And I'm really enjoying this type of work and helping people whether it be with head injuries, with strokes, with cancer journeys, thyroid problems, or all these types of issues. Not that we have it or every answer there is under the sun. But we're very good at being detectives working out what's going on and referring you to the right places where required. So if you're interested in that, please reach out to us lisa@lisatamati.com. Right, now over to the show with Eugene Bingham.

Well, hi, everyone, and welcome back to the show. I have Eugene Bingham. I know he's so famous, he actually sit down with me to record this session. So fantastic to have you here. Right? How are you doing?

Eugene Bingham: I'm very well, thank you. And thank you for having me on. Such an honour.

Lisa: Fantastic. Yes. Well, I was lucky to be on your show. And you've been on mine, and we just really connected. So I wanted to get you back on because you've just written an article, which was very, I thought was an important one to discuss. And it was about the tragic death of an ultrarunner last year or this year in the Tarawera Ultramarathon. And while we don't want to go too deep into the specifics of that particular case or we'd like to know what you know about it...

Eugene: Sure.

Lisa: ...but wanted to have a discussion around the dangers of extreme sport or ultramarathon running and some of the things we just need to be aware of. So, obviously Eugene and I—neither of us are doctors or any of this should be construed as medical advice, but just as—have to give them out there...

Eugene: Absolutely.

Lisa: But as runners and people who have experienced quite a lot in the running scene, and I've certainly experienced enough drama, that it is something that we need to talk about. So Eugene, tell us a little bit about what happened? And what are you happy to share

Eugene: Sure.

Lisa: ...and what you wrote about in your article, which we will link to in the show notes, by the way.

Eugene: Yes. Thank you. Sure. Yes, so I was a competitor in the Tarawera hundred mile race in February, which as you said—when you said last year, it does feel like last year, doesn't it? Oh gosh, it feels like it was five years ago. But it was February 2020, all those years ago. And in that race was sort of about 260 of us lined up. And then that race was a runner an older—oh, he’s 52. So from Japan, a very experienced runner, had run Tarawera previously, had run lots of other miles, and ultraraces. And unfortunately, about a kilometre or so from the finish, he collapsed, and about 34 hours into the race. And although people rushed to help them, and he was taken to retro hospital, and eventually to Auckland City Hospital, he died. And I remember, I remember the afternoon we heard about it, and Tarawera put it up on its Facebook page to let us all know that one of our fellow runners had died and I stopped. It was a shock.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: You know we do this thing, because we love it.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: And because we get enjoyment from it. And he was someone who paid the ultimate price.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: So I—we're a couple of hats, and one of them is a journalist, and so I—but really, what first kicked in was, I really want to know what happened. I really wanted to know what happened. I've had health issues myself, had a few scares and so on. A few wobbles and races, and I thought—just from my point of view, I was really curious to find out. But I also thought it was important to find out for other runners...

Lisa: Yes, absolutely.

Eugene: ...or say, I listen for others. And so I started to see if I could find out. COVID got the way a little bit and distracted me. But eventually I did manage to track down what happened there. Yes.

Lisa: And what was the result of the findings in this particular case? I mean, we're gonna want to discuss a few.

Eugene: Sure.

Lisa: I think, in this case, it was a couple of things, wasn't it? But this is without picking—and we're certainly not picking on anybody or any, not race, or anything or saying this is bad or anything. But what was it that you discovered in it?

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: So with that, research.

Eugene: Sure. So initially, I remember the talk was that he might have had a stroke, or there might have been some sort of underlying condition.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: But I got a hold of his death certificate and it shows that he had multiorgan failure, and acute respiratory distress syndrome, which are both conditions that they can be in multiple causes of those sorts of things. But the one that jumped out to me was Rhabdo. You're gonna make me say that? The proper name for it.

Lisa: Rhabdomyolysis

Eugene: Thank you.

Lisa: I'm an expert in rhabdo.

Eugene: So yes, that was the third one on the list. And that was the one that really jumped out at me.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Months earlier, I'd spoken to Dr Marty Hoffman, who's in a University of California Davis in the States, and he's sort of recognised around the world. Basically, if there's an ultra—there's a paper about medicine involving ultrarunning, you'll find Marty Hoffman's name on it, he knows this stuff.

So I'd run to him months ago, at the suggestion of a friend, Dr John Onate, and I had a good chat with him. And he sort of ran through the list of what we could be looking at here, but he was really—it was a stab in the dark at that point. But he told me then that they’re hipping no deaths from rhabdo, knowing deaths from rhabdo from ultrarunners.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Yes. And no knowing deaths from ultrarunners of the AH, exhausted and just talking it, ‘How can I train you’?

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: So we were kind of that, like, ‘What could it be’? Yes. So when rhabdo appeared on the desk fit, I rang him back and said—I actually emailed him and said, ‘Hey, this is what it says’. And he was very surprised because he keeps track of deaths of ultrarunners around the world. And as he said, there hadn't been one recorded before, doesn't mean there hasn't been one, of course.

Lisa: Yes, it doesn't mean.

Eugene: It's just no one, yes, no one knows what causes.

Lisa: And I think a lot of these things will have contributing factors in—completely unrelated but going through the journey with my dad recently it was at the end, he had multiple organ failure.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: He had sepsis however, and before that he had an abdominal aneurysm.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: So it shows the progression like it. What did he actually die off?

Eugene: Yes. Yes.

Lisa: He was born with the failure probably, or zips as chicken or eek scenario.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: So these things, one leads to an acute respiratory syndrome

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: And they all lead on from one to the other when the body starts to shut down, basically.

Eugene: It's a cascade isn’t it?

Lisa: It’s a cascade. That is a very good way of putting it. So rhabdo—and while there is perhaps no documented case of a death from rhabdomyolysis, I don't know if they—I know in my life, I've had rhabdo. I can't even remember the number of times I've had rhabdo.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: I took away kidney damage from it and the last few years, I've been trying to unravel that damage and undo that.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: I'm getting there slowly.

Eugene: Yes, yes.

Lisa: So it is a very as if quite a common thing.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: So we don't know whether in this case that was actual final, what actually did it? It certainly would have been a major contributing factor.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: Well, what is rhabdo? I suppose we better explain what rhabdos are.

Eugene: Yes. So I mean, well, from your experience, you will know better than me. But I spoke to Dr Hoffman and to Dr Tom Reynolds, who's the race doctor for—one of the race doctors for Tarawera.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: And they explained it as the muscle started to break down and the myoglobin from the muscle being released into the bloodstream. And then it basically just starts clogging up the kidneys and just causing real damage in your kidneys. The problem with it is the symptoms for sort of sound like a lot of other things and also can just sound like what you might expect running an ultramarathon.

Lisa: Yes, the kind of that also.

Eugene: Yes, tenderness of muscles, a bit of confusion, and so on. And then even some of the blood tests that you can do to pick it up. So they look for CK—you're much more proficient in the medical world than me.

Lisa: Not more.

Eugene: But the thing that they test for—it basically there was an experiment at Western States a number of years ago, where they tested bloods of people in Western states and they tested something like 160 runners, all of them had elevated CK levels.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: So in part, it's just a function of ultrarunning, your muscles are gonna break down to some extent. So that makes it very, very tricky to find out, to discover it. And Dr Hoffman said, ‘Sometimes the first sign that you get that someone's got rhabdo, is they have a seizure’.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: So it can be a tricky, tricky condition to pick up. Yes, that's really—it's hard, isn't it? It's really hard.

Lisa: It is hard and—but when you are going for—and some of these races are 24, 36, 50 something hours, you're going to have some breakdown of muscle and you…

Eugene: You are.

Lisa: I mean, keeping an eye on the colour of your urine or if you are not producing…

Eugene: Yes, that’s an important one. Yes.

Lisa: It is probably the easiest thing to think about. Because like you say, the nausea and headaches and confusion and fatigue are all very general parts about running anyway. So keeping an eye on it, like getting a pouch of fluid. What I would find is that in the lower abdomen, and I don't know if whether this is an actual medical symptom or not. But in the lower abdomen, I've developed this pot gap running and, it wasn't fat, obviously.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: ...within a couple of hours. It was fluid, and would usually coincide with my kidneys—they’re not producing or producing very little output. So I think there might be a sign that something's going on there.

Eugene: Right.

Lisa: In rhabdo, like, we're talking ultramarathons, but I have seen a case of rhabdo in a half marathon in summer.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: Yes. So a mild case, but enough to be taken to hospital. So it's not even just people doing the extreme extreme stuff.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: But it is a very—and you have to ask yourself, how much damage are we doing every time we do and I often asked, ‘Why are you not running anymore’? ‘Why are you not doing it anymore’? And apart from life's gotten a bit crazy. Am I? Indeed yes.

Eugene: Yes, yes.

Lisa: Should I have not got the time to be doing offers? I want longevity and while I love ultras, and I love the culture. And I love what I got to do. And I'm certainly not, I mean, I train lots of ultrarunners. I for myself, don't want to put myself at that risk anymore. Now that I'm also 50 and I want longevity. And therefore my health comes before my sporting ambitions now. It didn't when I was younger, but now with—unfortunately, one of the side effects of studying medical stuff for the last five years, is that I'm now a little bit more cautious.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: Because ignorance is bliss.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: What you don't know, you just go and do.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: You don’t actually know the implications and sometimes, you don't actually know the implications until well down the track, like, you use to check.

Eugene: Yes. yes, sure.

Lisa: That's where I'm sitting at the moment, as far as the sort of the dangers and the risks. I mean, how did you feel as a runner, who—you were in the same race doing the same distance? You're a little bit north of 25 now.

Eugene: Jump 47.

Lisa: You're 47?

Eugene: Yes. 47, yes.

Lisa: And did this make you stop and think about, ‘Do I want to keep doing this stuff? How do I feel about it’?

Eugene: Yes, it sure does. It sure does make your family think of that, doesn't that? I think it reinforces that you need to have really good self management. You need to be well prepared. I spoke to—when I spoke to Dr Reynolds, and I said to him, ‘We had this big conversation about all the cold coloured urine and all that sort of stuff’. That sounds a bit odd, and a little different other conditions that can come about. Yes, and so on. And I said to him, ‘Boy listen to all of that. Do you recommend people run ultramarathons’? And he said, ‘Look. At three o'clock when the medical team is full. And I've got my hands full, I look around, and I go, What the hell have we been doing this for’? But he says, ‘But it's a small proportion that gets badly affected. And as long as you manage your risks, and you're aware of it’, he said one of the things that he's really concerned about is people jumping up the distance too quickly.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Or the runner suddenly, ‘Wow, I'm gonna run 100 miler’, because it has become, I think it's…

Lisa: The new marathon.

Eugene: I told him, I spent more time trying to talk people out of doing milers than I do in trying to talk them into doing milers. I don't think I talk to any other or talked anyone into doing a miler. It's a very personal choice. I spend a lot of time talking to people out of it, makes me so again. But again, I don't know if that's a good idea, mate.

Lisa: Me too.

Eugene: Yes. And it sounds bad.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Try running podcasts.

Lisa: I know. You know, my buddy out running.

Eugene: Yes. But I just think people need to be really conscious of the risks.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: And they need to be prepared to put the time in. And that's one of the things that you've identified. You've got to prepare your body. And you've got to know your body. I mean, I took—I've been running my whole life. And I didn't take the decision to enter the miler, lightly, certainly would now knowing what I do know now. And when I say no, I mean, I'd always heard of rhabdo. I'd heard of AIH, I'd heard of dehydrational systems.

And you sort of think about you sort of like, ‘Yes, yes, yes’. But having lined up at the start line with someone who didn't make it home that really reinforces that these are real risks, and you have to be prepared for them. You have to be ready for them. So, I'm not gonna stop ultrarunning, I don't think. But I'm certainly going to be a hell of a lot more careful. And listen to my body.

Lisa: Exactly.

Eugene: Sometimes you can get that. I find one side of ultra running that I struggle with a little bit is the whole kind of ‘You're not going to quit unless the ambulance takes you off the course’ kind of thing. I don't like that. I don’t really like that.

Lisa: I totally agree.

Eugene: You know, I agree. I love the whole mental toughness thing out of it. Don't get me wrong. That's one of the things that I enjoy about it. But you have to listen to your body. You have to listen to your body. I've pulled out of a 100k race, where I could have pushed on. You know. Looking back, it's like, ‘Yes, I could have pushed on, at what cost’? You know?

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Yes, it just wasn't worth it. Could I push through and be out there for another hours and hours and hours and hours? Putting myself...

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Yes, sure. I could have but what was the risk? What could have happened? And what do I get out of it? Instead I actually came away from that race having learned a hell of a lot of lessons. And they prepared me for the miler, actually.

Lisa: Yes. And I think that’s some beautiful attitude and in a very wise mind. Some of the things that I did in my younger years or even—I’m talking 40s.

Eugene: Yes, yes.

Lisa: We're stupid. There is no other word for it. And especially in the 30s, my 30s, I thought I was bulletproof and I could push and I had that mentality, you're going to have to drag me away, framing and I have seen lots of others. And I have nearly pushed my body on a number of occasions to the point of death and I've been very, very lucky not to have died.

I've had tetany seizures, which is where your potassium level and your electrolytes are so out of whack that the whole body cramps and so I'm having a heart attack. I was luckily at that at the point that I head out, I was in Alaska, and I'd been for six weeks out in Yukon with poor nutrition and so on and pushing the body every day. I just come off a mountain when this tetany seizure hit. Luckily, I was two minutes from a hospital, and they saved my life.

Eugene: Wow.

Lisa: But that would have been deadly very quickly. I've experienced extreme levels of dehydration in the Libyan desert where we only had like one and a half to two litres of water a day in 40 plus temperatures. And gone to the point where I no longer was in control of my body, and my—not only just hallucinations but the central nervous system starting to shut down. Massive kidney damage, and taking nearly two years to recover from that.

I’ve had food poisoning while running across Niger, and again bleeding at both ends pushing it to the absolute limit I did pull out of that race at 64 hours after 222Ks but that was way too late. I've gotten away by the skin of my teeth. Not to mention going through war zones or military body areas

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: Or being in really dangerous situations and that's a whole podcast in itself. But it wasn't worth it. Now I think I was just so afraid of failure I was so afraid of not achieving that, which I'd set out to do that. And I have to think about it now and go I wasn't in—people who are in war scenarios or some survival situation where you have to freakin go to the limit alive.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: But I wasn't in there. This is a—well, Libyan desert ended up like that, but you know what I mean?

Eugene: Midnight summer bitches.

Lisa: Oh yes, it’s some stupid shit. It really was. But at what costs? Now, I've had a lot of health issues in the last five to six years and a lot of that comes from—I haven't been able to have children you know and so on and so forth. And these are the contributing factors

Eugene: Sure enough.

Lisa: That's the only reason for certain things, but now as a coach and as an older wiser woman, I don't want to see people pushing their bodies to that point where they actually close to dying or causing major damage to the body.

Eugene: Yes, yes.

Lisa: It really is not worth it.

Eugene: I mean this pushing the limits isn't there. And mentally, I think there's a lot to be said for having a goal that's going to stretch you when you are going to go for it. But the key is to be prepared, isn’t it? To actually have done the training...

Lisa: The training

Eugene: ...to prepare your body. To test—so that you know when your body's screaming at you, you know it’s saying, ‘Okay, you know what, you know to pull the pen or you know to stop and rest or whatever’. I think there was some good—Tom Reynolds had some five tips which are really good.

Lisa: Yes. Let’s hear them

Eugene: To prepare yourself for an ultra especially ultras but even marathons I suppose

Lisa: Absolutely.

Eugene: Number one on his list, and I think he would make this number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 is don't take drugs like Ibuprofen and Voltaren and those sorts of things.

Lisa: Super important.

Eugene: Do not take them. Yes, super important. The second one is drink to thirst. You know that you can have problems—your own problems if you have too much liquid.

Lisa: Yes, which we’re talking about in a sec.

Eugene: Yes. Be prepared for the conditions. Have a plan for a range of conditions. So make sure you've got thermals. Make sure you've got your jackets and sawn and layers that you can take on and take off especially if you're going to some of these remote areas that we go to as ultrarunners.

Number four, the race doesn't end at the finish. Pack warm clothes, get some food ready that you can eat, some liquids. And another thing that he pointed out to me is actually some of the most dangerous times is after that finish line. When people get to the finish line, and drive hard, and they're tired.

Lisa: It's so true.

Eugene: You can crash easily for a second crash.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: And number five is look out for each other. and I think that's so important. Sometimes there's a bit of competition isn't there? But number one, you've got to look out for each other

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: You are comrades in this together and you've got to have each other's backs. And there's little relationships that you build up with someone you've never met before. I still remember having a good chat to a farmer from Jordan. I spent a lot of hours with him at Tarawera. Haven't spoken up since, never met him before in my life, but there we were together at Bizmates on the trail.

Lisa: Awesome.

Eugene: Keeping an eye on each other. Looking out for each other. You make sure they've got their bottles filled at the aid station. You make sure that they're not getting confused or anything like that—just looking out for each other. Simple isn’t it?

Lisa: That’s gold.

Eugene: And that was the five tips that he gave. Actually, they're pretty good tips.

Lisa: They are very good tips, and a couple other ones to pick out like the training. In my early days as a coach, I remember taking an athlete who went from half marathon to running the Big Red Run 250Ks.

Eugene: Wow.

Lisa: Inside a month.

Eugene: Oh.

Lisa: Now on a red mat, that was stupid.

Eugene: YeS.

Lisa: He came over to do 100k to be fair, and he was doing so well. He just decided to carry on and to do the whole thing. And it was an incredible achievement.

Eugene: Oh, yes.

Lisa: However, broken my butt. Like, it never was quite the same afterwards. And he wasn't ready. He wasn't, like, his body wasn't ready. So when you prepare your body, when you're training, you doing these long runs, and you're doing back to back running, and you're doing strength training, you're doing mobility work, all these things are preparing the muscles so that they don't break down so quickly and they don't need—you don't need about rhabdo.

And another big piece of the puzzle is the experience side of things. Because then you can actually start to feel when your body's doing a chick or not. As I run, I used to do like little chickens every half hour or an hour I'd go right I'm doing a control like a pilot would before he flies the airplane. ‘How is everything? How am I feeling? Have I ever drunk in the last 10 minutes? Have I eaten anything? When was the last time I weighed? When was the last time’... Just doing a mental checklist as often as you can.

Now one of the hard things with ultra though is that you start to lose your brain function, so all the blood flow is going away from your executive function up here and you become like a bit of a moron. You’re like, ‘Oh, oh’.

Eugene: Absolutely. Solving maths? Impossible.

Lisa: Impossible. Or maybe doing a 24 hour race, the one at the Millennium Stadium, and there was some guys they’re testing us just for a laugh, doing Noughts and Crosses as we run around the track and our brain function is a day and night wore on just we weren't even able to add up one plus one anymore. We just completely like, ‘Eh’?

He’s got low blood and my brain is not functioning. So what that does mean is that your ability to make good decisions is also impaired. I remember saying to one of my friends who was a paramedic and she was with me in Death Valley, in the second time I did Death Valley. And she says, I said to her, ‘You are responsible for my health’. I was lucky I had a crew in that situation. If you pull me out, you pull me out. I know that you won't pull me prematurely because you know what, it's taken me to get here. But my life is in your hands and I respect that. I respect you. I respect your knowledge as paramedic. If you tell me it's over, it's over. And she will be able to make that decision because I knew from my personality and from my matter that cost me to get there wasn't going to be pulling out anytime soon.

So sometimes if you can have in the case where you have a crew have somebody say, ‘This is now getting dangerous’. And it's a fine line. Like I pulled my husband out of a race once, Northburn, a race that I co-founded a few years ago in the South Island. And he was doing the 100k and he actually rang me on the cellphone, and it seem the case, we had a massive storm up in the mountains. It was wild. It was his first 100k, he was in the mountains. He was scared shirtless. He was hypothermic. And I was like, ‘Oh my god, darling, just come home’. You know? So that was—and he could have pushed on.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: And mentally that cost him a lot because he pulled out, and he didn't push over that hub. So there's this fine line between it should’ve been ours...

Eugene: But he lives to tell the story.

Lisa: Exactly, and he's done that, so it wasn’t...

Eugene: Exactly, that doesn't matter, you know? We love those stories. I love reading your books. I love reading the things that you've been through. But, my gosh, when you think about the risks as you say and the cost, and that's a common story. You're not alone in there, That's the sport we’re in.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: It's ridiculous to me. But you know, it's a tough one. And it's, I think that's a really good idea. Having someone who's who's got your back. Someone who you can trust, like you say, they're not going to pull you out you know just because you stub your toe. Oh gosh...

Lisa: Just because you’re...

Eugene: Exactly. Exactly. Who hasn't? But you can trust them so that when you've gone to that thin line, bang!

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Come on my area.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: And I was lucky to have a really good mate who phased me. I went through some hallucinations. Nothing major. But he thought it was—I had my mate. And he was looking out for me. In fact, he laughed at me.

Lisa: What did you see in your hallucination?

Eugene: Oh, I hit home. So we were running around on an unfamiliar course. We were coming around the back of Blue Lake. Up towards the Blue Lake aid station. So about 120km. And it was just before sunrise. So, you get that funny light.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: It's still dark, but the light is changing. And I swore coming up to the aid station, I swore I saw a robot sitting off to the side of the trail. And in my photo frame mind, I justified it as ‘Oh, it must be like reading, it must be scanning us telling the aid section that we're coming’. And so I saw it. And said to my mate, ‘James, there’s a robot. It's pretty cool’. And he's like, ‘The what’? ‘The robot there’. And he's like, ‘There’s nothing, man’. And I think it was a tree or something. I don't know what it was. But it's funny how I justified it to myself. So it was fine. And then after the light changed, I got a couple of situations where it's quite unlikely to cause hallucination or is vision going. But I—the ground was just like liquid glass.

Lisa: Wow, that’s cool.

Eugene: I was like, ‘Oh, should I put my foot down or not’? And James said, ‘What are you doing? Come on’! It was like, ‘What's going on with the ground’?

Lisa: [32:58] inaudible the glass. Well.

Eugene: So that was but—people have some great hallucinations, don't know. But the point of that was, I had my mate there. It was never unsafe. And I'm grateful for that. So I think that's a really good tip, Lisa, to have a crew with you.

Lisa: I think hooking up. Or if you're in a race where you don't have crew—which most of them are. And that you do hook up with somebody. If you can try and not too many people because then your pacing will be all out. But if you can just hook up with one person or maybe two at the max.

I remember running the Gobi Desert in the Sahara with same gash who was in the desert runners movie together and this is great footage and desert runners is playing at the moment on TVNZ if anyone wants to check it out, it’s a cool movie. And yes we're running along holding each other's hands, bawling our eyes out, and but we got each other through both of those messiest days, both in the Sahara, and in the Gobi. And we ran together in India as well but with crews in that case. But that comradeship that we have there was just gold. It just helped.

When you [34:17] escaped shirtless you hit someone the and we did get lost and we did fold our paces and we did have all sorts of dramas and we kept each other going through all those hard times and I think that's one of the beautiful memories for me that I take away from that. And there were other people I've done the things with... And the depth of connection that you have with a human being when you've gone through something like that it's just next level. And that's one of the beautiful things because we’re talking about all our negatives here but it is just like—she’s a very amazing woman that one. She’s done incredible things.

Eugene: It is incredible, isn’t it. Those connections you make.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: The friendships you forge. Even if you don't see each other again, but you've got that bond. That's forever.

Lisa: Yes.

Eugene: Those moments that you shared when you're vulnerable.

Lisa: When you're up [35:11] Creek and literally. Guys who didn't even speak the same language or a woman I remember running in the Sahara at one point with a—I was crying, she was crying. She was from South America somewhere, didn't speak a word of English, or another French guy picked me up in Jordan when I was running across there and I'd passed out and he came along, picked me up, got me into the next checkpoint. The French guy and Niger, it's just like, ‘Wow’. The stuff that you help each other through. It's gold, but does this do happen, you know?

Eugene: They do. They do. Yes.

Lisa: We have one in the Gobi Desert. We had a young man, Nicholas Kruse was only like 30 or 31, I think. And he was first time doing it. And he wasn't trained enough, I don't think. And he—I think he underestimated the thing. And he unfortunately probably paid the ultimate price. And then you've got also the dangers. I mean, you got cases like with Turia Pitt, the forest fires in Australia, or there are things that could go wrong.

Eugene: Yes, absolutely.

Lisa: Even in these organisers' races. You have falls where you've hit your head and concussions and... Just because you're in an organised event, do not think that there isn't an element of danger, or that you're going to have to be self-reliant, you cannot. And inside these countries is beyond the abilities of the organisers actually to cover every base.

Eugene: Absolutely. Well, even in races in New Zealand, we go to some remote places, and races route is difficult to get. You're not just going to be able to ring up 111 and get an ambulance there.

Lisa: No.

Eugene: It's not like that. I've been in a 100k race where—because there have been lots of runners going through this. It was a narrow bit of the trail. And it was really dry there. And runners have been going over this bit of land. And basically, as the day wore on, it sort of started to break down a little bit. And I was just the unlucky one stick on the trail in a way. And I slid down this bank...

Lisa: Oh my god.

Eugene: ...and down, down, down, down down, thinking, ‘Uh-oh, when's this going to stop’? Luckily, I hit, I came to a stop on a tree, not badly. And then basically had to scrape my way back up. Now, I was fine. But you know, those sorts of things can happen if I stumbled in a wrong way as I came off the trail and hit my head, whatever. So you are—yes, you will, I mean, it’s not... Well, I mean, when we've been out on a run in a cotton wool, so [37:57] do we. But we don't want to go everybody. But you don't need to be conscious.

Lisa: I'll be conscious of it. I think...

Eugene: And even when you're training too, when you're training, when you are going out in remote areas. Make sure you tell someone where you're going. Preferably run with some other mates. Maybe think about taking a locator beacon with you if you're going somewhere really remote.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Eugene: Have a phone with you, do those sorts of things. Take those precautions. Just be a bit careful. Yes, we want to push ourselves. Yes, we want to be out there. Yes, we want to find new limits. But we also want to get back home.

Lisa: Yes, we want to come home to our families and not die on the way.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: If we can. I mean, people can take it to the level that they want to go to, but just don't want people going and thinking that everything's safe because it's an organised event or because hundreds of other people have done it, means absolutely nothing.

Eugene: Absolutely.

Lisa: I’ll tell you, like how many thousands of people have climbed Mount Everest, but it's still a frickin dangerous thing to do.

Eugene: Absolutely.

Lisa: Doesn't mean it's safe just because lots of people have done it. I think like—if we just went through a bit of a list now of some of your things that you'd like from a medical perspective, that you should gone this research on and find out about.

One of them, so we've talked about rhabdomyolysis. Dehydration is the opposite, is well known, dehydration is what we think about more, and that's certainly something that can then can lead to troubles. And you've got hyponatraemia or EAH, so hyponatraemia let's just talk about that one briefly because it's a biggie. Hyponatraemia is a low sodium level in the body. I've had it. Lots of people give this. And it's again, a hard one to diagnose because it is very similar to the opposite problem, which is dehydration. So hyponatraemia you've actually got too much water on board.

One of the signs of this I'm even doing was 100k, one of those Oxfam ones. And because we'd been walking for so long, it was a walking running situation thing. And I got really bad hyponatraemia in that one. I was drinking a lot. I wasn't having my electrolytes, right. And my hands were like elephant hands.

Eugene: Wow.

Lisa: So that's an indication that there's something going on. So look for signs like that, look for swelling, edema. And yes, that could like...

Eugene: Nausea, lightheadedness, those sorts of things as well.

Lisa: Coordination, going haywire. And the problem with hyponatraemia is you don't want to just be thinking it's dehydration and then drinking more. So it's an—it's a low sodium. So, your potassium and your sodium are having antagonistic relationships in your body. And you have, for every three bits of sodium that gets pushed out of the cells, three bits of potassium come into the cells. And it's like, it acts like a pump. And it's actually what helps your muscles contract.

So if you get that sodium, potassium, ainger, other electrolytes out of whack, there's a whole lot of things that can happen. hyponatraemia being one of them. In another one being a tetany seizure, which is what I mentioned what I had in Alaska.

Eugene: Yes, so what's that?

Lisa: So this is where—in my case, it was a potassium that was really, really low in the body at 1.4. Like it’s deadly...

Eugene: Wow.

Lisa: Deadly low. And I'd had in the couple of weeks building up to this actual seizure. My hands were doing this, and I was cramping all the time. And that was so—if you ever start doing that, like this weird thing where your hands are starting to spin.

Eugene: So, like dinosaur hands on.

Lisa: Yes, so your fingers—for those listening can't see me do my funny thing here. It's the muscles contracting and your fingers are pulling in. So I remember, swimming at some point, and the lead up to this with this was happening to me. I was like, ‘What the hell's that’? And then it would go off again. But there was a sign that I didn't have enough potassium as I found out later.

Eugene: All right.

Lisa: So then I had, a couple of weeks later, this tetany seizure, and it started with the whole body. Just like every muscle in the body cramping all at the same time, the most painful thing you can ever—like really bad pain, including your face muscles, including your heart, which is the problem.

And in there, the pain was horrific. I thought I was dying, I was. Luckily I just come off a mountain, or was taking shelter in a public library because it was pouring with rain and freezing cold. And this happened in the library. And there was a paramedic in the library who just happened to be fixing a light bulb. He saw me go down.

Eugene: That’s one of the 43:10 [inaudible] moments.

Lisa: Yes, that was very lucky. He put a gel straight into my mouth. He just happened to have a gel on him. And that gave a little bit of glucose and stuff too, and managed to release the seizure for a couple of minutes before it happened again. But by then he got me into the ambulance and around to the hospital pretty quick, smart. And they were able to save me. But that could have been deadly. That could have been a massive heart attack on the way out.

I've seen that also happen and we were in the outback of Australia with friend Chris Ord. And he had a seizure at mile, coming in at 90 sort, and we've been running in 40 odd degrees heat and he'd been taking electrolyte tablets. So people electrolyte tablets are absolutely crucial. You've got to have them. The ones he was taking didn't have potassium. They had everything else in them but their ratios weren't right. And he ended up—we had to—again incredible pain, whole body seizing, racing him into the hospital Alice Springs.

What I did do and what you can do in a case like that is give him three cans of Redbull—not advertising for Redbull or because generally that’s a shit thing to be drinking. And this case, with what it's got in it and the sugars and stuff that helped. So yes, but that's just a potassium sodium balance.

Eugene: Yes .That's the thing, isn't it? We're missing with our chemistry. We're missing with the body's chemistry. I don't know what it was but I had one race where I just finished and as soon as I finished, I started shaking.

Lisa: Oh, yes.

Eugene: Shaking and shaking. I couldn't stop for hours. And it wasn't cold. I wasn't cold.

Lisa: Oh, I know what it is.

Eugene: Well, what is it? Because...

Lisa: I don't know the name of it. But I've had that many times. It's basically where you've just got nothing left in the body.

Eugene: Yes, somebody said to me, glycogen. Yes, just the glycogen is gone.

Lisa: You just got nothing, you got nothing to heat because you know we heating ourselves all the time with our glycogen supplies and our glucose is running out of their body. And you were just on absolute zero basically, taking your blood sugar, I bet you’re in a really, really low

Eugene: Right.

Lisa: And so like, in Death—I’m telling my bloody stories, but...

Eugene: Why not?

Lisa: A member in Death Valley. We be head like 55 degrees during the day, I’ve had heat stroke and had all that. And then at nighttime, it was 40 degrees. And I got shivers. I was doing that. I was like this and it was 40 degrees.And I was like, ‘Really, what the hell is going on? It's 40 degrees’. It was a lot colder than it had been, but I just had nothing left in the tank and therefore I was shaking.

And that can be a real danger when you say in the Himalayas, which I've also done and that's where you just cannot warm up. You can't keep your heat going. And these can run into other problems where you just stuck—your blood sugar just keep dropping, and you can end up when—going into a coma just because your blood sugar is too low, and you got hypothermia.

Eugene: The other problem that happens. And I've had this a couple of times after ultras is I just have zero appetite, I can't, I just can't face the thought of food. You got to get something into you, you go start replenishing your body, you got to look at soups or something to get some nutrition back into it. Because like you say, it can be dangerous.

Lisa: And that's a recovery too, like, if you can get something in it will help you recover a heck of a lot faster even like just generally fully training runs, if you can get something in within an hour. But usually within an hour, you just do not feel, you just feel like vomiting if you eat too much. So you just have to take a little, little, little nibble, nibble, nibble. And something that you're really—usually savoury salty things that you will get have a taste for. So soup or things or something like that. Just trying to eat something in. My gosh, there's a lot to be worried about.

Eugene: And that's the thing, that's the thing. These are all things that you need to be conscious of. But you manage your rests, don't you? You can manage them. And what one of the other things that Dr Reynold said, and I think is pertinent today, what just what we're dwelling on the bad things is that these risks are exponential. So he says, ‘Don't think that you run 100k all year, well, then 160Ks, that's only another 60k’. It's an exponential increase, and an exponential increase in those risks as well. So conscious of those things as well.

Lisa: So watch when you're jumping up in this.

Eugene: Yes.

Lisa: And also don't fall into the trap of thinking, ‘Oh, I did it once. Therefore, it's a piece of cake. I could do it either’. I've run into this where I came off the back of a Himalayan one. I just done 222Ks. I thought it was the bee's knees. And then I went and did it just a couple of weeks later and I hadn't recovered properly a 50k in Australia. And the wheels freakin came off at 25k. It wasn't the—I had to be risky for some beer drinking Ausies in the middle of the bush. I'll tell you your ego suddenly deflated.

Eugene: Yes, absolutely, Lisa and it's—I learned that lesson even just with the map just for the marathon.

Lisa: Don’t say that.

Eugene: But just for the marathon. I ran my first marathon when I was 21 and I trained for it. And so I found it actually quite easy. I don't mean that—I wasn't fast but but it was I got to the end of it. I can't keep waiting for the wall. The wall never came. I got—I thought, ‘Ah’! So I made the mistake thinking marathon is easy. A piece of cake. Yes, run up on the next one. [49:13] ecruzi hardly did any training.

Lisa: Oh.

Eugene: My bad, so bad. And it was like it was just the marathon telling me, ‘Sunshine’...

Lisa: Respect.

Eugene: ‘Respect the distance’. You cannot run something like this without respecting it. And it was a good listen.

Lisa: Good listen.

Eugene: Good listen, I'll let my listen. But I let my listen.

Lisa: And in by that token, respect any distance. People often say to me, I'm just doing it, I'm just doing half marathons, or I'm just doing marathons and because I've done lots of ultramarathons they think, ‘Oh, that would be nothing for you’. And I'm like, ‘Hell no’.

Eugene: Hell no. Absolutely.

Lisa: Every distance has to respect because it’s sort of basic thing for starters. 100 metres is a long way when you're going at Usain Bolt and 5k is really fast when you're going at your maximum. And a team K is an attunity. It's all relative to pace for status. And the second thing is never think because you did it once. Next time, it's going to be sweet. And Eugene has given us an absolute good example of that. And it is. It’s like take every race is that first is a big deal. And you have to prepare your body for it.

And don't—oh, another mistake I made this was awesome. Another embarrassing thing. So you know. Done 25 years of stupid stuff and then when my mum got sick I didn't train obviously properly for 10 months and then I ran across the north on and raising money for charity a friend who’ve died, Samuel Gibson a wonderful man that we lost. And I was so moved. I decided I'm going to run anyway. And I have not been training for 10 months because I've been looking after my mum and I sort of thought out, this sweet, have done this backwards and upside down. I can do this.

Oh my God, my ass got handed to me. And I got through it. But oh, hell, it was hell. It was not funny. So prepare. And even though you've done it a100 times doesn't mean you still got it.

Eugene: That's right. That's right.

Lisa: I assume I don't got it now.

Eugene: And that point you made earlier about recovery, too. I did a 100k race and then you had this plan to recover, to take weeks off, got peer pressure. Mates we're doing a 50k. ‘Come on. Come on, man. I don't want peer pressure. Peer pressure’. ‘Okay. You’re already lined up to this 50k race’. Oh boy. And it just set me backwards. It set me back so far, you know?

Lisa: Mentaly too.

Eugene: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, yes, respect things.

Lisa: We've got to respect things. We've got to not expect that our bodies got it just because we've done it once before. Be aware of things like rhabdomyolysis, heatstroke, hyponatraemia, altitude if you're doing altitude, podcasts in itself, be aware of burnout...

Eugene: Hypothermia.

Lisa: ...hypothermia, dehydration. All of these things are things that we can and do happen to be seizures, electrolyte imbalances, getting lost, going through dangerous places, breaking ankles, and all that sort of thing. So part, it is, can happen. So, be aware of that. And we're not saying don't go out and have adventures, because that'd be really critical. But prepare for those adventures. Get proper training. Get proper coaching. Know what you're in for.

Eugene: It's like driving a car. One of the most dangerous things we do. But we make sure we wear our seatbelts, we make sure our cars have got a Warrant of Fitness and the service, and everything. We make sure there's air in the tires, we make sure there's fuel in the tank, and our bodies have got to be like that as well.

Lisa: Exactly.

Eugene: That driving is so so dangerous. You know, so many people a year die on our roads.

Lisa: Yes, more than ultras.

Eugene: Yes, so we don't not drive. We just make sure that when we drive we are prepared and our cars are prepared. Well, that's the same as running. There are risks, not as much as driving. But there are risks, but we just make sure we've got air in the tires, we've got fuel in the tank, that we're serviced, and ready to go when we line up for races.

Lisa: Brilliant. Eugene, you've been fantastic today. And now you've got another thing to get to. So I want to thank you for writing that article. And thank you for your honesty and openness about this because it's really important that we do talk about it in our running community and to share the good, the bad and the ugly. So I think it's important. And keep up the great work. Of course, people should go and listen to Dirt Church Radio. It's a fantastic podcast that

Eugene: We have great gear that’s wireless.

Lisa: Honoured to be on your show, mate. And I love talking to you and I love what you do. So thanks very much, mate for being on the show today.

Eugene: Anytime. Thanks, Lisa.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Have you ever felt that you are not doing enough and not achieving enough? It may be easier to look at our current situation and feel sorry about ourselves but rest assured that everything is part of the process. Growth means doing things one step at a time and taking ownership of our situation and life.

In this episode, Geoffrey Woo interviews Lisa about her experiences with ultramarathons and the importance of mindset during these difficult races. Lisa also talks about how all her experiences created a character that never backed down, even when her mother almost died from an aneurysm. Developing strength meant that she needed to pick herself up from failures and disappointments time and time again.

If you want to know more about building strength and resilience, tune in to the podcast episode!

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching. You can also join our free live webinar on runners' warm-up to learn how a structured and specific warm-up can make a massive difference in how you run.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn about the power of mindset when facing difficult situations. 2. How do ultramarathons build your resilience and mental strength? 3. Discover how compounding experiences can uncover your true potential.

Resources * Check out Geoffrey Woo’s podcast at H.V.M.N. Podcast, Apple Podcasts, and at Youtube. * Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art by James Nestor * The Oxygen Advantage: Simple, Scientifically Proven Breathing Techniques to Help You Become Healthier, Slimmer, Faster, and Fitter by Patrick McKeown * Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen by Christopher McDougall * The Oxygen Revolution: Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy: The New Treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Traumatic Brain Injury, Stroke, Autism and More by Paul G. Harch M.D. * The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science by Norman Doidge * Concussion Rescue: A Comprehensive Program to Heal Traumatic Brain Injury by Kabran Chapek * Register at Broken Brain to keep updated with Dr Mark Hyman’s documentary series!

Episode Highlights [07:45] Lisa’s Journey Into Ultramarathon Races * Lisa has been doing ultramarathon racing for over 25 years. * Her ultramarathon races have been mostly located at deserts. * While she was not born with the genetic ability, Lisa owes these achievements to her strong mindset.

[09:49] How Lisa Faced Challenges * Lisa used to be on track to become a national gymnast. * Going through puberty changed her body and made her unfit for gymnastics. This led to her poor body image, self-loathing, and low self-esteem. * In her early 20s, Lisa felt that she was never going to be good enough. This culminated when she crossed the Libyan Desert. * Find out more about Lisa’s harrowing experience, both physically and emotionally, at the Libyan Desert in the full episode!

[15:57] Surviving The Libyan Desert And The Aftermath * In addition to the difficult and illegal crossing, Lisa also broke up with her then-boyfriend. * Surviving the Libyan Desert meant focusing on just one step after another. * The whole experience made Lisa physically and emotionally wrecked for two years.

[23:58] Lisa’s First Encounter With Ultramarathon Races * One day, Lisa saw a Moroccan race that only required 240 kilometres, 9 litres of water a day, with support from doctors, journalists, and helicopters. * These paled in comparison to the Libyan Desert crossing, where Lisa’s team had to travel 250 kilometres with 2 litres of water a day and 35-kilogram backpacks. * This comparison led Lisa to join the ultramarathon and she loved the experience. * She notes that the community in ultramarathons was so uplifting that she kept signing up for more.

[25:34] Developing Emotional And Cognitive Resilience * Pushing your body’s limits with ultramarathons can build your resilience. * Failure is a part of pushing to the limits and you have to get over that. * Resilience is not taught enough in our society.

[28:15] Building Resilience * We don’t have the benefit of hindsight when we’re experiencing highs and lows, but trust in the process. * Lisa talks about losing her son and how painful experiences can have moments of joy too. * Listen to the full episode to hear how Lisa turned heartbreaking and difficult experiences into sources of strength and courage.

[38:27] Society’s Disconnect With Nature * People tend to live vicariously through others and not go through experiences themselves. * We have become disconnected from nature that affects our health and well being. * We cannot depend on anyone to save us. We have to make things happen ourselves.

[43:44] Compounding Experiences * Create momentum with small successes. * When you hit roadblocks and failures, deal with them as they happen. * Know that there is no limitation on what you can do. * There is a misconception that running is bad for the joints. * You have to train for a marathon by building up strength and endurance.

[52:53] Mindset During Difficult Times * Lisa talks about how she used to have a prideful mindset of needing to prove that she can do something. * Nowadays, her experiences with charity races developed a gratitude mindset. * Lisa also thinks about how she would do anything for her loved ones. * For more details on how a New Zealand race and her mother taught her how to break down a situation step by step, check out the full episode!

[1:00:51] Value Of Learning From Experiences * It's hard to convey experience and until you've lived through it. * When Lisa’s mother had an aneurysm, Lisa went above and beyond to help her. * Tune in to the episode for Lisa’s extensive research into hyperbaric oxygen therapy, functional neurology, and the ketogenic diet to save her mother!

[1:16:27] Improving The Standard Of Care * We can change the standard of care and improve the current medical system. * With the current age of technology, information and research are more widely available. * Take ownership of your health and do the research. * No matter the age, people need to have goals and be challenged. * We have to respect and care for our elders better for they have helped shape us to become who we are today.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode “And so no matter what you're going through in life, try to think of it as well, this is going to be a part of something that I'm meant to be learning and I can turn this around.”/

“When I decided I want something, I just do it until I get good at it, even if I'm hopeless at it at the start.”

“None of us have to be limited anymore. Certainly not this day and age by one profession.”

“It's all a matter of the motivation. It's how bad do you want this thing.”

(My mother) “poured my focus back into the here and the now, instead of projecting into the future, which was overwhelming and terrifying. And that's how we broke it down step by step.”

“If I hadn't had the belief that the human body and mind are capable of far more than what the average person thinks it is, then I would have listened to the naysayers and I would have given up.”

“We've got to do better. And we've got to respect our elders. They're the ones who made us who we are.”

About Geoffrey Woo Geoffrey Woo is the Co-founder and Executive Chair of Health Via Modern Nutrition, or H.V.M.N. With the core mission of redefining human performance and longevity, the company offers quality nootropics to the market. The company is guided by rigorous research and development based on science, coupled with label transparency and evidence grading.

Geoffrey is also the host of the H.V.M.N. Podcast, where he regularly interviews experts on health, nutrition, biohacking, and entrepreneurship. With over 100 episodes, you are sure to learn about optimizing your health! Tune in to the podcast!

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can be inspired to take ownership of their health and life!

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Intro: Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing The Limits this week.

Now today I have something a little bit different than my usual format. I've actually used a interview that I did on the H.V.M.N. podcast with the amazing Geoffrey Wu. He has an incredible podcast and company that I'd love you to check out as well. I'll put all the links in the show notes. And he did this interview with me and I told my story and a little bit of my background. And particularly we went into the story behind the Libyan desert, which was an illegal crossing that I did across the Libyan desert, a long, long time ago, beginning of my career. And I thought it would be quite interesting to share this little backstory with you. And also, you know, we go into a deep discussion around high performance and being the best that you can be.

So I hope you enjoy this interview. something a little bit different than having my usual guests which will be back to next week. I do have coming up in the next few weeks, some fantastic guests. I have James Nestor who is the author of Breath, which is an incredible book, all about the art of breathing. And you would be amazed at the science behind optimizing your health and everything with breathing.

And then I also have Patrick McKeown who is also the author of The Oxygen Advantage, again, all about nasal breathing [0:01:43]and the particular breathing techniques and just absolutely incredible. Both New York Times bestselling books, top authors, top experts in this field. So, I hope you make sure you tune into that.

Also coming up on the show in the next few weeks. I have Dr. Brian Walsh, who is one of my teachers and incredible, incredible — a super brain of a man — who's going to be talking to us about detoxing. So those are a few episodes coming up in the next few weeks. So make sure you do stay tuned.

Now before I go over to the interview, I just want to remind you, now Christmas is coming up. If you haven't got your Christmas presents, check out my jewellery collection online, it's called The Fears Collection and it's all about inspiring and motivating people with while you're wearing some blink, while you’re wearing something that's pretty cool. So sports jewellery, it's hardwearing, it's the sort of things you can dress down or dress up with. And I hope you enjoy that collection. You can find it in my shop on lisatamati.com.

Also, on that note with Christmas coming up, got to remind you to go and grab one of my books, either Running Hot, which was my first book, Running To Extremes, which was my second. Both of those chronicling all my adventures around the world. And my third book, which has just come out this year, Relentless, telling the story of bringing my mum back after her massive aneurysm and all the brain damage that she had and being told that there was no way forward. It's an empowering, inspiring story — a love story. And it's a story that is really — a book that it's actually, I'm getting feedback all the time from people telling me how much it's changed their lives, their approach to taking ownership over their own health and not just leaving it up to everyone else. So, I hope you enjoy it.

Now head over to the show in just a moment. But if you could also do a rating and review for the podcasts I really, really appreciate that. And I say it every week. But I do really appreciate getting any reviews. And if you've got any questions, please reach out to us. You can reach me on lisa@lisatamati.com. We're also taking on a few clients at the moment on a one-on-one which we don't usually do just because of the sheer volume of work that we have. But I am taking on a very few people. If you've got to have health journey that you want help with, you want someone to help navigate some tricky waters that you're going through, or challenge, or if you're setting yourself up for a mess of big sporting challenge, obviously, mindset or anything like that, then please reach out to me. I do enjoy working one on one with just a handful of people at a time because it does take a lot of resources. So, if you're interested in that reach out to me at lisa@lisatamati.com.

And now over to the show with the interview with Geoffrey Wu.

Announcer: Coming up in this episode

Lisa: Our little boy Joseph suddenly came early and he only survived for two hours and he died. And this was like heartbreaking. Our last chance basically, to hold your baby and to watch him struggle and die and that was like the worst thing I've ever been through.

And even in this horrifying situation, if you like, there were moments of joy, moments of blessings and the blessings that our little boy brought to us. It took me a few weeks. when I now think on my little boy, I think, what he left behind, like the changes he created in me, the changes he created in my husband, our surrogate parents — were extremely close now — to our surrogate parent family, to their children. My husband is a firefighter, and he's now become an officer, which he wouldn't do before. Because he was like, “Ah, I'm too shy, and too, whatever.” And now he's like, “No, my little boy didn't get to live, I'm [0:05:48]going to live full bore, I’ve suffered.” So little Joseph bought blessings in a way that we couldn't see at the time. And I don't wish that on anyone. And I certainly don't want to go through that again. But it could either break you or you can try to find something in there that has meaning for you, and a reason for you.

And so, no matter what you're going through in life, try to think of it as “Well, this is going to be a part of something that I'm meant to be learning and I can turn this around.” And that's I think your job when you're on this earth is to try and have these lessons and become stronger and better and not let it break you.

Announcer: Welcome to the H.V.M.N podcast, what we do with our bodies today becomes the foundation of who we are tomorrow. This is Health Via Modern Nutrition.

Geoffrey Wu: Hey, everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the H.V.M.N. podcast. And this is going to be an especially fun one because my guest today is Lisa Tamati. I had a wonderful conversation on her podcast. So, for today, we're going to flip the script, flip the table and have Lisa share her experience.

In a lot of my conversations over the last few years now, when you really talk to World Class specialists in one specific domain, they oftentimes touch and become generalist experts across a multitude of domains. I think that's just the world that we live in. To be really, truly world class. One can't just be in that one specific tunnel. One really gets the best practice from a number of domains. I think Lisa really encapsulates that for me. So Lisa, great to have on the H.V.M.N. podcast.

Lisa: I’m so stoked to be here. Geoffrey, it was wonderful to have you on my show. And yeah, now the flip-the-script is going to be exciting. I can't wait to do a deep dive.

Geoffrey: Yeah. One area that you have a tremendous amount of experience and I have a little bit of a taste of is ultramarathons, long distance running. I think that seems to be your initial entry point into high performance, human physiology. Love to hear your background story of how you got into it, competing Badwater, some of the most prestigious well-known ultramarathon races. What was your journey into this specific field?

Lisa: Yeah, thanks, Geoff. So I've been doing ultramarathons now for over 25 years, and I've had, in that time, the chance to sort of run and compete and train over 70,000 Ks in that time. So that’s three times around the equator, if you add it all up.

I've done mostly desert so I've done a couple of thousand kilometres in the Sahara Desert from the Moroccan Sahara, a couple of times to the Tunisian, Arabian Desert, the Libyan desert, Niger, Jordan, also the Gobi desert in China, Death Valley in the USA, a couple of times, in different parts of the outback of Australia, which is closer to home. And I've also at one stage ran right through New Zealand, doing 52 marathons in 42 days, raising money for charity. So that was another a really amazing mission.

But the funny thing about my story is that I'm a so what from average, as far as talent goes. I don't have any special genetic abilities. No Dean Karnazes or David Goggins, or anything like that, as far as ability and speed go. But what I did have was really, really super strong mindset. And when I decide I want something, I just do it until I get good at it, even if I'm hopeless at it at the start. And certainly, I was asthmatic as a child, so I was in and out of hospital, I had a very poor lung capacity. Very poor v02 max. So I wasn't really made or built for this type of thing, but I never let that stop me doing anything, really.

Geoffrey: Yeah, so what kicked it off? When I talked to a lot of folks that end up being, just long careers in endurance sport, oftentimes, it's realizing that in middle school that they were really get the 5k compared to the other middle schoolers?

Did you have a story like that where you ended up running and you realize, “Hey, I'm pretty good at this. Everyone else is tired, I'm pretty good.”

Lisa: That was absolutely bloody, hopeless setup. To be honest, Geoff. What happened is I was really into sport, I was a gymnast as a kid. I was good at gymnastics. And so, I did that from the ages of 5 up to about 15. And I was on sort of track to be a national sort of gymnast.

But then when I went through puberty, I grew up too tall, and I grew up very muscular and athletically built. And I just didn't have it. Once I went through puberty, I knew I just wasn't going to make it.

And so that was a real blow to me because that was all I'd done. And I've grown up in a family, where the expectations were really, really high. And I was expected to represent my country and I was expected to be the best at everything that I did. I had amazingly loving, amazing mum and dad, but my dad was also very hard on us. And that, I think having that early childhood — being pushed into that really strict discipline that gymnastics requires, was, in some ways, a really good learning curve and other ways it was quite damaging.

So as a young woman — so from 13 to 15, before I started, stopped, gymnastic — I really struggled with my body image. And I was the heaviest, biggest girl in the group, if you like and, and was always constantly ridiculed for that. And so they that started a path of self-loathing, and very low self-esteem.

And when I failed at gymnastics, I thought, “Well, that said, I'm never going to represent New Zealand.” But I sort of had that dream in back of my mind the whole time. And then in my early 20s, I met an Austrian guy who was cycling through our country here and had an accident on our mountain, got hit by an avalanche. And my mum, being the sort of mum she was, she always picking up strays and bringing them home and looking after them, as mums do. And she bought this young gentleman home, and we fell in love and doing lots of adventure stuff around the world. So we cycled around 25 different countries, climb mountains, quiet, did all that sort of adventurous stuff. And that sort of opened my eyes to the world of travel because I've never been outside my country prior to that — into the world of adventure and to what I was capable of. But it was also at the same time, a very abusive relationship. And once again, I was never good enough. I was never what I was supposed to be. It was it could never live up to the expectations. I wasn't fast enough, strong enough, good enough. I was accused of having bad genes.

And this sort of culminated. I did a crossing of the Libyan desert, an expedition with a partner and two other guys, this was a really extreme illegal crossing of the Libyan desert. And we only had like two litres of water a day because that's all we could carry on our backs with this distance of 250 kilometres that we had planned. And no one had been through — no Europeans have been through this part of the desert at this stage. There were no maps. We managed to get some pilot maps of US military don't ask how. And we started off on this crossing and two litres of water a day, and 40 plus degree temperatures with 35 kilo backpacks. It was a recipe for extremely on the limits.

Geoffrey: That’s a serious rock. Yeah, that’s a serious rock. Wow.

Lisa: Yeah, especially when I was like 58, 59 kilos at the time. So, it was more than like, now, nearly two thirds of my body weight. And this ended up being not only physically really demanding, but the boyfriend ended up leaving me in the middle of the desert on day four.

Yeah. So that you can imagine you have your relationship breakups. We've all been there and done that, but to do that in the middle of the Libyan desert, in the middle of this crossing. And the reason was, we were all suffering and very irritable, as you can imagine, when you can't, you got no water. And so, timbers were short, and he wanted to move faster. And we were doing a book on the expedition. So, photographing it, and he was a perfectionist, and wanted to set up all these photos and wanted me to help.

And the leader of the expedition said, “Look, we got to keep moving. So, you can take your pictures, but you got to keep up with us.” And so he wanted me to help with that. And I physically was just unable to run around, do anything extra other than put one foot in front of the other. And so that went down like a ton of bricks. And after a couple of days of frosty temperatures in between us, he said, “That's it, I'm leaving, I'm heading off over the sand dunes. And you can stay with the other two guys.” And that's it, the relationship’s over.

So that was a real deep turning point. And it sounds quite funny now, but it wasn't at the time, I can assure you, and we're in desperate straits by this time. The dehydration is so, so bad. I don't know where the heat is going to survive, whether we're going to survive, what's going to happen. And in that moment, I really learned I had to compartmentalize things in my brain. So I had to be able to function despite the emotional turmoil that I was going through. And that was a really good lesson to learn so that you can actually still function and do what you have to do to survive to get out and not fall to pieces. And of course, I owed it to the other two guys, too, who are like, “Oh, my God, we've got a hysterical woman here. Now, what do we do now?”

Geoffrey: This story deserves more attention. I mean, just from the emotional capacity, obviously, a breakup with a long-term partners of emotion is a massive emotional turmoil. And then it sounds like there was questions of even surviving. So-

Lisa: Yes, there was.

Geoffrey: – at the time, did you think that everyone could have died? How serious? I mean, it sounds like it was pretty serious. But did you have regrets or thoughts racing through your mind? Were you like, “Hey, like, why did I do this? Am I going to die in the desert? I'm stupid.” Can you walk us through that kind of a thought process there?

Lisa: The thirst was just unbelievable, like the suffering that goes on when you don't have enough water is really, really horrific. So your mouth swells, your lung, your tongue swells, you just got no saliva, so you can’t eat, obviously. And we were covering around 45 kilometres a day, or we were trying to so that we would have enough to get out. So we had a schedule that we had to keep. And we were trying to avoid going in the very hot hours of the day, but there was often no shade, so you just like sort of put your backpack up and try and hide under it.

So it was extreme, as far as would we survive, and it was a military bad area as well. So leaving the Oasis was really dangerous and getting out from outside the military camp and then disappearing into the desert without being followed. And by the same token getting back. And so you had all that sort of stuff going on as well. If you've been caught in this area, you would have been in deep, deep trouble, shall we say?

So, there was there was all sort of elements to it. And then, when the partner left, I had to just stop thinking about whether he would survive or not. I knew that he was extremely strong and strongly fed, but all it takes is one twisted ankle. And you're gone, there was no there's no one to come and rescue you. There's no one to help. There was no outside help at all. And there was no water on route. So there wasn't much chance of survival of anything went wrong. Now as with the other two guys, and the leader of the expedition was a survival expert from Yugoslavia and he was amazing. All I had to do was really follow him and do what he said. And that's what we did.

On day five. I had real we had a sand storm hit and just as the evening broke, and it came in so suddenly. Because I was doing most of my drinking the water in the night-time and because that's when your cells could take it up. If you if you drank during the day, it would just evaporate out of your body really quickly. So, we were trying to drink the bulk of our supply for the day in the evening. And I'd also been squirreling away part of that two litres a day. So I was actually only getting a litre and a half and because I was so scared of running out so that I had more left in the backpack than I was meant to have and on this particular night, the same storm came in, and I didn't get to drink my water because it we just got an hour sleeping bags and just hunkered down and we basically got buried by the same storm. You couldn't do anything for the next five or six hours while this pass through.

And then at about three in the morning, we got up again and we got going really quickly and I only had a small drink and then I got underway. And finally, by now I was not really feeling the thirst anymore and was walking in the early hours of this morning and I just kept passing out and my body was starting to shut down. But Elvis was on such a mission to get to the certain point that we he'd see on the map. So, then he would know where we were exactly and that we would survive that he was just on a mission, he wouldn't stop to let me get water out of the backpack. And they keep pulling me back on my feet. I'd go along for another 20 minutes, and then I pass out again, they’d put me back up again, I'd walk along again, the pass out again. This happened like five or six times, until we got to this place where we could see this — it’s called the barbecue depression.

So you were up on this table top, landscape, and then you're looking down. And so, then he knew where we were. And by now I was hallucinating. So, the, the rocks were becoming monsters. And I didn't even know to ask for a break. If that makes sense. All I was doing was functioning by putting one foot in front of the other, and I couldn't think straight, my vision was closing in, hallucinations, and so on.

Geoffrey: What kept you going? I mean, it sounds like — was it just reptilian survival instinct, just one foot after another? Was there something higher? Or like, “I'm not going to die today?” Where were you in this state? It just sounds like you are so —

Lisa: So close

Geoffrey: — baseline functioning, right? It was just like you're essentially just baseline survival function at this point?

Lisa: Yeah, at this point, there was no higher thinking at all. There was just, I'd been doing this for days, just following the footsteps of the guy in front of me. And that was what I was mesmerised on, this little white flicker of his shoes in front of my eyes. And that's all I focused on doing because just could not think any higher thoughts. When you run out of glucose and when you run out of water, your brain function is it's like being completely out of it.

So I was just doing everything I could just to stay upright and keep moving forward and not thinking and not being intelligent. You're unable in this case to make clear decisions or anything like that or to say, “Look, hey, I need to stop and get some water guys.” And you're on the sort of mission, and you're just going, and it's just pure survival that keeps you putting one foot in front of the other. And then once we got to this place, he helped me down these cliffs and we got to the bottom and he said, “Right, I want you to get out your water and you're going to drink and we're going to sit here for the extra hours. And you're going to slowly drink your whole day supply because your body's starting to shut down. And he said to me, “Look, he'd been in the desert a lot.” He said “I've known of people who have died in the desert with 20 litres of water and next to them because they've been squirreling it away for so long.” He said it's better in your tummy than in the backpack. In other words, I hadn't been having enough just to keep surviving and you can actually die next to a whole big ton of water because you're squirreling it away for too long. And then your body shuts down, and then you're gone, can’t go too far.

So the upshot of this adventure was anyway, we did get out, we did survive, obviously. I had some major kidney damage and health problems after this. The boyfriend also got out and there was a lot of undoing of misty relationship stuff, as you can imagine, in the aftermath. But that was a time in my life where I went and never again, when I let myself be controlled by anybody else. Never again, am I not controlling my own destiny.

And it took me two years to do anything again because my body was just wrecked and emotionally, I was wrecked. But then one day I was reading this magazine. And it was about the Marathon des Sables, which is a very famous ultramarathon in Morocco. And I was reading the statistics and comparing it to what I've been through the Libyan desert. So we've done 250 Ks, we'd had 35 kilo backpacks, two litres of water a day, right? And Marathon des Sables is touted as, that time, as the toughest race on Earth — 240 kilometres, 9 litres of water a day, doctors, journalists, airplanes, helicopters support—

Geoffrey: You’re like, “This sounds easy. This sounds like a luxury clamp glamping.”

Lisa: [laughs] Luxury cruise.

Geoffrey: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. So, you had to carry everything in your back, as far as the food goes, but that was like, between 9 and 12 kilos. And I thought, “Hang on a minute. I reckon I could do this.” And so, I hadn't even run a marathon but I signed up for this 240 k event. And that was the first time I'd done something on my own. As girl on her own now, it was really important to me to prove to myself that I wasn't useless.

And I went and I did this race, and I just absolutely loved it. I did really, really well. I didn't win anything but I was in the top 10 woman and I just had an absolute ball. I was surrounded by people who were positive and encouraging and empowering, and there was 700 people in this race and the whole camp moves every day. It was like a huge military operation. It was just mind blowing.

And then after that experience, I started to get my self-confidence back that had been on the ground for the last two years. And I became addicted to that experience if you like because I was like, “Ugh. Give me more of this, this is awesome.” And I was good at something for change. I was told I was doing really well, and the other people were so uplifting, that then I became like addicted to ultramarathon. So, then I just signed up for every race I could possibly find, interested in one after the other, and sort of worked it out as I went. And so long story short, that's how I got into ultramarathon running.

Geoffrey: Now I understand why he put mindset as first year as well, the ultramarathon. I mean, it sounds like almost from your perspective, your mindset and that emotional and cognitive resilience to go through when you were 13 and 15. As an adolescent, athlete towards some of these survival trips. Would you say that's accurate? You almost see yourself like a mental ninja or a mental resilience expert ahead of being an endurance athlete at this point?

Lisa: Yes. Yeah, definitely. Certainly, it's become that over the even the last 20 years, especially. Whereas like I've said, I never hadn't had a lot of talent. But I realized I had I did have really good mental strength when it came to certain areas, especially in sport, I had a mindset that I could just go and I would go to the point of killing myself, nearly, which also became a problem on occasion, because you just wouldn't pull out when you should pull out. And now I'm a lot wiser and don't advise people to do that. And now we coached, you know, hundreds of athletes around the world, and we try to get them to pull out way before that point.

You know what the greatest benefit of doing all these ultramarathons and pushing your body to the limits like this is that it teaches you mental toughness, it teaches you resilience, it teaches you that failure is a part of the game as well. That if we only go through life being scared of failure, we're never going to take risks, we're never going to push the envelope, we're never going to find out what we truly capable of. And if there's one thing I've learned through this whole journey, it's that failure is a part of pushing to the limits. When you're going to that sort of level, even in business or in whatever it is in life, you are going to have failures and that is part of it. And you have to get over that and you have to learn resilience.

And I think resilience is a word that is totally underutilized in our society. And something we should be teaching all our kids about the resilience to be able to get up when you're knocked down. The resilience to be able to believe that you can still achieve them when things are stacked against you or when people are telling you no and it's impossible. That’s the thing that has helped me most, running from A to B and some artificial human made race, if you like, or climbing a mountain or doing any of these things, it's a conduit to learning who the hell you are.

Geoffrey: Yeah, it's an artificial construct. It's like a game to actually bring out that resilience at that person, that character, that integrity. This is something I've been thinking a lot about, I'm glad you're bringing this up. For the specific resilience, where do you think that resilience came from? Do you believe — I mean, this might be like a nature versus nurture question — do you think that there's some sort of genetic disposition that predisposes certain people towards having this kind of emotional and cognitive resilience? But also part of that is that sounds like through your childhood, through your environment, through your upbringing, you had pretty early, shall I say, traumatic or formational experiences as you're competing that probably gave you some sort of either a trauma that you healed really well from, or gave you a lot of experience that people never actually face with like a happy normal childhood or whatever you want to call it. Do you think those were powerful formational experiences that led you down that path?

How do you think about it, when you coaching clients coaching different folks? Obviously, you realize that some people just seem tougher than others, right? Like you hear like, yeah, I think your story is reminds me a lot of David Goggins’s story who was a former Navy SEAL, ultra-endurance athlete, had a lot of trauma through his childhood. How do you synthesize your personal experience as well as the experiences that you've called and pulled through your coaching and your journeys around the world?

Lisa: Yeah, that's a really good question in and yes, like David's stories are incredible and his childhood — terrible, obviously. And it's what who made him who he is, a lot of it.

I actually think there's a combination of nature and nurture. So I'm right into epi genetics and we use a system called Ph360, which is looking at different types of people and different health types. And I am what they call a crusader, which is someone who's always going to be dopamine driven and on a mission, tendency towards addictive behaviour, whether that's running stupid distances or eating too much chocolate. Same sort of thing. And so this, I think — and my brothers often say to me, “Why are you always on a mission? Why are you trying to conquer the world all the time in everything that you do? Why can't you just sit back and relax and have a day at the beach like we do?” And I say, “It's like asking a table not to be flat, this is who I am, this is my makeup, this is the way I made, and I can't do anything much about that.”

So I do think that a big part of the drive and the determination is genetically predisposition. Like mum said, even as a three-year-old, I would be off, diving into the pool when I couldn't swim, or I just had no fear, I would be doing stupid stuff. As a kid without any sort of idea of what the heck I'm doing. And that is always been characteristic of my nature to just jump into things and work it out on the way.

So I think there is a big portion of genetics. And by the same token, I think the combination of that with some very harsh experiences. And these are experiences, too like, don't get me wrong, the self-esteem, the lack of confidence in after that relationship, there were massive depression, suicide attempts. There’s a lot of staff that are not going into the details have to come out the other end, if you know what I mean.

So it wasn't like you're just like, wow, the super resilient person who just gets back up again. It certainly wasn't in that young years, when I didn't have the toolkit, either to be able to cope with the emotions that I'm feeling. And when you're younger, you've got a whole lot of hormones and stuff going around, and very dramatic, as you know, with all teenagers are all dramatic. I was probably super dramatic.

So, there was a lot of stuff and this is a process. And I'm old now, it's very easy for me now look back at the journey. I'm 51 going on 18, I still think I’m a teenager. Looking back over that time and going, actually, I can see the progression, I can see how I developed I can see the highs and the lows, and it all makes sort of a sense now, if you like. And we don't always have that benefit of hindsight when you're in the middle of it, all you know is that you're depressed and you don't want to be here anymore.

But if you can actually look at things from a longer term perspective and go, “This might be a part of making me who I am.” And now every situation that I get into that really blows me to pieces or is really hard or tragic, and I've been through quite a lot in my life, I now look at it and the first thing I try to think is where is the learning here? Where is the silver lining? What is it that I'm meant to be learning from this experience? And how can I turn this into a positive?

And it doesn't always come to me quickly. I mean, last year, we had a situation with my husband and I've been trying to have a baby for four years. We've lost one when I was 46 in a miscarriage. And then I had a surrogate mum, and we were over the moon, we thought we were finally going to have a baby. And six months into it. Our little boy, Joseph, suddenly came early, and he only survived for two hours and he died. And this was like, heartbreaking. Our last chance, basically, to hold your baby and to watch him struggle and die. And it was it was it was like the worst thing I've ever been through.

And even in this horrifying situation, if you like there were there were moments of joy, moments of blessings and the blessings that a little boy brought to us. It took me a few weeks. But when I when I now think on my little boy, I think what he left behind, like the changes he created in me, the changes he created in my husband, our surrogate parents — we’re extremely close now to our surrogate parent family, to their children. My husband is a firefighter and he's now become an officer which he wouldn't do before because he was like “Ah too shy and too whatever.” And now he's like, “No, my little boy didn't get to live, I'm [0:35:06] going to live full bore, I’ve suffered.

So little Joseph bought blessings in a way that we couldn't see at the time. And I don't wish that on anyone. And I certainly don't want to go through that again. But it could either break you or you can try to find something in there that has meaning for you and a reason for you. And so no matter what you're going through in life, try to think of it as “Well, this is going to be a part of something that I'm meant to be learning and I can turn this around.” And that's I think your job, when you're on this earth is to try and have these lessons and become stronger and better and not let it break you.

Geoffrey: Yeah, well, I think that's an incredible framework that you've really, I think, internalized and really test it to the limits, right? How do you turn every single injection, eruption, happenstance that occurs in one's life? And how do you take the positive from that, and it sounds like you've been able to really internalize it so well, that you're really testing the bounds of, of human experience there.

Lisa: I think, and also, I mean, we've gone pretty deep, and it's pretty emotional in this topic. To lighten things up a little bit. I mean, I've had the most crazy adventures and most fun, running things like Death Valley in the US, which is a really well known race that you probably know about. And our friend, David Goggins has done Dean Karnazes and in doing those events, where it's just been absolute highlights of my life to have those achievements.

So by the same token that you have these horrible things such happened to you, and you have to get through them, then you have these amazing experiences that were obviously challenging and hard and the discipline and all that sort of stuff that you learn along the way. But these are also life changing moments where you've achieved something, like Death Valley was a dream for 15 years of mine before I actually got there and got a slot in that race and had enough money to go.

And the boyfriend that left me in the Libyan desert, he'd cycled through Death Valley in the middle of summer. And so, he was always like, “A year, I cycled through Death Valley.” And so in the back of my mind, I was like, “One day, I'm going to run through these valleys” like —

Geoffrey: I’m going to show him

Lisa: — later [laughs] I’m going to show him, and I did. I did. I ran through it twice, I've done it twice and it was a crazy — that was another life changing event for me because it opened up the world I ended up doing a lot of documentaries after that books and so on.

So, there's been some amazing things, and this is the beauty of life. We don't have to be stuck in a box. We have the ability to reinvent ourselves. I mean, you Geoffrey are a prime example of somebody — Stanford University, computer scientists, now you're just creating a new you in a new world and a new direction that actually is what you want to do now. And none of us have to be limited anymore and I certainly not this day and age by one profession. Like, I write what I do, it's everything from podcasting, to filmmaking, to book writing, to coaching, to mental toughness courses to everything. And none of that is a contradiction.

Geoffrey: Yeah. I want to step back and just maybe turn us into more of a culture commentary because I feel like a lot of modern society and culture is, at least I sense, there's a lot of its form of anaesthesia, just numbing, kind of an existential angst of why, what is one's purpose? And then I think there's also a big stream of living vicariously through others, right? People aren't doing the Death Valley run themselves, they're watching you, Lisa, doing that Death Valley run — are watching and living through other people.

Lisa: And that is a hallmark of our time, really. With all the movies and social media. It's very easy just to sit on the couch and think, “Wow, I've just been to all over the place.”

Geoffrey: Right, and I think it's a little bit of both because I think a lot of people have this, they live vicariously through others, which gives us that excitement, but it's also the anaesthesia for the day to day, boredom or anx of not being satisfied with what they're doing. I mean, do you sense that with the broader cultural context of our times?

Lisa: I think there's a real massive disconnect nowadays from the way human beings used to be — so out in nature all day, digging the fields, hunting deer, building their houses, doing whatever, pushing the limits exploring. We don't have to do any of that anymore because we live in a world where it's all that's all done for us. And yet we live in the stressful times of computers and technology and crazy jobs and a lot of confinement. And we're going from one box of in their house to another box in the car to another box at work, in an office. And all of us as disconnected us from our true roots in our ancestral way of being and this is at odds with our DNA, I think, and the way our bodies are meant to function.

And so I think this is causing a disconnect, especially with young people who don't know that they have to get outside and get in the sunshine and get their vitamin D on their skin and get away from those damn computers and video games and all that sort of stuff. And so, when that happens, we have all sorts of problems come up, hormone dysregulation, circadian rhythms are stuffed up, woman with their cycles are stuffed up. We disconnected from nature. And I think the more that we can get outside, get back to some very basics that the human body needs.

So I run my businesses, I'm 24/7 sort of thing around, going for it all the time, but I make sure every day I get time to train in nature push my body out in the physically outdoors, and connect with the see the forest, the mountains, wherever I can. And even if I've only got 10 minutes to sit in the city park, I know that it's important for my soul to be able to connect with nature. And that's important on a hormone level, it's important on a personality level, and all of these areas that are just being neglected now.

And we can sit at home and be entertained 24/7 on our devices. And this is a huge danger, I think for the human race because we shouldn't be living in the matrix. We need to be out there actually experiencing it ourselves, getting in the water, going for runs, walking in the park, whatever it is, and interacting with other human beings on a eye-to-eye level. I mean, we luckily have this technology, and I can connect with you, which I never would have been able to do in the past.

But by the same token, it's important that I go today, and I see my family and I look them in the eye and I have that social interaction with them. And all of these things are missing from many people's lives. So there's the element of loneliness, there's the element of all these dysregulation that's going on in our bodies and our circadian rhythms, and hormones, and so on.

This all leads down a track of very often depression, being dissatisfied in life. And then maybe you're in a job that you feel trapped in or you don't have a job. You don't know what you want to be. We have to create our own framework and our own destiny, and we have the power. We live in a time where we can actually — through this amazing technology — access so many things that we never could have before. There is no reason for any single person to not be doing something on a mission, creating their own business, doing something on the side to get them out of the job that they don't like, whatever.

But it's up to you and your mindset to understand, there is no white knight in shining armour coming to save you. You have to make things happen. And you just do that, obviously. You just decided I'm into the keto and the intermittent fasting, right, and I don't know the whole story, obviously, I'm going to go and make this happen. Then you start a new business and you started the business and sold it at 23, you know, like I didn't know which way was up at 23. To be honest.

Geoffrey: I think if you look at just how every single story, every single interesting, whether it's historical figure, everyone started from somewhere and someone decided to do something, and it compounded and grew and you learn over time, right? And I think one interesting, maybe first step, to inspire people to build that mental toughness, at least for my experience was doing some of these longer runs.

I remember the first time some of my colleagues at H.V.M.N. who are marathoners and triathletes, they kind of just challenged me casually do a half marathon. And never was a good endurance runner and the notion of running for an hour was just seemed like very intimidating. And I imagine for most people that are casual athletes, casual folks that go the gym, running a mile on a treadmill is like a pretty solid day, warm up or pretty solid effort. But I think what I took out of that experience and having done a couple ultramarathons was that going back to your point, I think is more interesting for me as a mental challenge than a aerobic bout. It just being in your own head for a couple hours for three hours, four hours, five hours, not listening to music. That's almost a forced meditation, in some perspective.

Lisa: It is. It is.

Geoffrey: And I think, especially in our day and age, you never are really alone without your devices for a 2, 3,4 or five hours. I think that's an interesting little small entry point into tapping into that notion of resilience and self-actualization.

So, I'm curious to get your thoughts on that route, but also just going back to the notion of creating one's own destiny. And I think just from a historical perspective, you look at all the great historical figures — from a Steve Jobs to Genghis Khan — everyone was some child with some interesting upbringing and they figured out some things went well, they made some mistakes. But I think the thing is, I did they didn't really stop right, I think your story is definitely a story of not stopping.

Lisa: Yeah, congratulations for stepping up to those challenges and doing those runs. Because the thing is, when it's the same as when, like, someone might look at you and go, “Wow, what a brain and he's super intelligent, and I could never do that.” And I bet you just when I'm just going to take this one step at a time, or start my degree or do this paper or do in suddenly you will start to expand, doesn't it? And you're capable, and then you find out, “Holy heck, pretty amazing what I've achieved.”

And it's the same thing with running, you start off and we coach 700 athletes now, and I've coached thousands over the years. And I've taken people from running from one lamppost up to running hundred miles. So, I know that process. And you start with people, you don't talk to them like “One day, you're going to run 100 milers”, you start with them like, “We just got to get to that lamppost down there and I'm going to teach you the way to run and the way to breathe.” And a lot of people don't even know how to breathe, and then they suddenly realize, “Oh, heck, I actually can run for half an hour, I thought that would be impossible.” And once you have those initial successes, you get the breathing correctly, you get and taking smaller steps, for starters, you teach them a few technique things, and then they get that there's that those first initial wins. And that's where you start. And then within weeks, you can have them running the first 5K, often. If they're healthy, normal people, they just don't know how to run. And all of a sudden, now the horizon is lifted to that level. And then you repeat that process up to 10 Ks up to 20KS and then they run into a brick wall, and they don't know how to get from a half marathon to a marathon. And then you show them the way through that and they may have a couple of failures on the way where they run out of glycogen. And you deal with these things as they happen.

And then all of a sudden, they're signing up for the first ultra, and then the world's open to them, then they understand that this is just one foot in front of the other, having a good coach, having good structure, not burning yourself out, doing things in the right order, getting your recovery, doing all of that sort of good stuff. And then all of a sudden, the horizons are lifted. And this is a beautiful thing when you cross the finish line or something like Death Valley, it is a moment that is a combination of in that case, 15 years’ worth of work to get there. And you've stood on the shoulders of all your teammates, you've learned so much about who you are along the way. It's not just about that journey, and then you're capable in your life, there is nothing that is going to hold you back. There is no limitations into what you can do.

But you also have to realize you have to be willing to pay the price for all of those things. You have to be willing to go to the [0:48:44]anx degree, you have to be willing when you did those runs, I bet there was times where you're in a lot of pain and your suffering and your body's screaming at you why, Geoff, just sit down? Why are you doing this? Who are you trying to impress here?

Geoffrey: Yeah, I remember that. One of the first half marathons is like it was on the team lunch, I think on a Wednesday and then, my former colleague Brianna, who wrote for Great Britain and converted to doing Iron Mans was like, “Hey, you should do a half marathon this week.” And I'm like — just like running around the Embarcadero in San Francisco — I'm like, it's like mile like seven and like, “Why am I doing this? Like my feet start hurting?” It's just like by herself, everyone, all the tourists are just like confused like, why this person's like running like these back and forth along the Embarcadero. Maybe I don't want to be overly conceited but I feel like at a certain point, like humans were just designed to be able to run 5, 10 miles. And I feel like in a more healthful society should be almost table stakes to be able to just blast out 10 miles on a dime, right? Like, I think I would love to live in a society where that just tables where you would expect people to be able to walk across the street? Any healthy person should be able to run a few miles.

Lisa: Yeah, I mean, obviously you've got disabilities or whatever, it's different. But if you're just a normal, healthy human being, then yes. There’s a book go by my friend, Chris McDougall, Born to Run. And that's all about the fact that humans are born to run and we had a TV series along this line that we tried to get off the ground, we got the pilots down, and we looked at, in historal stories of long distance running in different cultures all around the world, from the mountain [50:37] to monks to the Kalahari Bushmen to the Navajo Indians to the Maori in New Zealand, all of these ancestral people covered huge distances on foot. Whether that was running walking, but they were moving pedestrian, that's fit what we are. We’re made, were born for the stuff. We're probably not born to do 100 miles, [0:50:57]veins, to be honest, like I think we do those things because we want to find out where the limits are, but we all made to be doing 10 to 20Ks a day. I truly believe that that's what our bodies.

I often get asked, “What are you be wearing at your joints?” My joints are fine, and I've run 70,000 Ks, and I don't have knee troubles, and where the problems come is when you don't do your strength training, when you don't do your mobility work. So, in the past that would have been working in the garden and stretching and lifting and all of those things that we often just run and then we come sit at a computer. And that's a bit of a dangerous combination.

Geoffrey: Yeah, I think the argument that running is bad for your joints is definitely a misconception, right? Like, when you actually have looked at studies, that's basically an untrained person going from zero to 10 miles, and it's like, yeah, you don't expect someone that's untrained to be able to become like a computer programmer without – some probably some ego damage, not necessary physical damage, or you go from not being able to bench press 200 pounds is expecting someone to just lift a lot of heavy weights.

Lisa: Yeah. And that is actually a bit of a danger. Like I see people going on — I'm an ambassador for a race next month, my husband's running it as well. It's an 80 K, and I'm watching some of the people who have signed up in in the Stryver[52:19] accounts and then not training and I'm like, “Oh, shoot, we're going to have carnage.” Because you need to prepare your body. Like going out and running a half marathon because you're a fit young man, and you do other stuff, you can get away with it. But that's not what like if you were to extrapolate that and go “Well, next week, I'm going to run a marathon”, well, then we'll start running into trouble because you do need a structure and build up and periodization and all those other good things, too. Because your ligament, like your cardiovascular system will do it — no worries, your ligaments and your tendons will not.

Geoffrey: Like it's not used to the pounding.

One thing that I wanted to ask about, it’s actually, I'm curious in terms of talking to folks who have done incredible endurance feats is the mindset during the bout, and I think you reflected upon it just a little bit earlier, where in the moment, there's oftentimes we're in pain, you want to stop, you want to quit. I remember a conversation with Pete Jacobs, who was an Ironman World champ, talking about trying to harken back to a notion of gratitude of love and trying to pull up that emotion as he's trying to finish some of these longer races. I'm interested in some of your mental tricks as you're doing Badwater your, your hundred miles in, it's really hot.

Lisa: You're sick and dying [laughs]

Geoffrey: I mean, autopilot survival mode. Yeah. Are you trying to recall a happy moments? Or are you more of like a David Goggins, where you trying to recall like painful hate hateful moments? Are you a Zen monk? What are your tricks?

Lisa: I've got a few tricks, definitely, and it's a bit of all of the above. The gratitude one, he's a bit of man, I find it quite hard, and at one I'm definitely a bit more David Goggins style. [laughs].

As far as, especially in my early days when I was trying to prove something and wanting to be loved and accepted basically and being okay. And so a lot of the motivation here was to prove that I could and that I was strong and that I was not useless. And that's a really — I don't care even if it's a negative motivating factor, if you like it some negative rather than the gratitude one — but it's a powerful one because you will pull out all the stops. You can hear that person's voice in your head going “You're useless.” And you're like, might be breaking down and you might be in hell pain you're going you but I cannot let that I cannot let them win, I cannot give up. And that can be a powerful force.

Now later on in my career, it became more things like doing things for a charity and especially during things for a particular person who had a disability or something, that would get me going. Because I'd be like, “Well hang on”, I've run for kids with cancer and things like that. Then you start to pull on other things, like, “I'm so grateful, I don't have cancer and get over yourself, because these kids are dying of cancer and going through chemo and all of this, and they're putting a brave face on. Get your shit together”, basically. And so you put things into perspective.

One of the couple of the other tricks I use is, if I was really in a desperate situation in a race, I'd say to myself, things like, “Okay, you've just crashed in a plane in the middle of the jungle, or the desert, or wherever you are. And you've got to run 200Ks to save your mother because she needs help. And she's stuck in that plane. Now, you're exhausted, and are you going to quit? When your mother's life depends on it? Or are you going to find the power to run another step?” And the answer was always, “I would not give up I would fight, I would find another way to take another step.” And therefore, you can do it. It's all a matter of the motivation. It's all a matter of how bad do you want this thing. And if somebody, one of your loved ones life depended on it, you can bet your bottom dollar that you would run that 200 K or that hundred mile or whatever it is, you wouldn't give up. You’d die trying, wouldn’t you?

And that when you can pull those resources out of yourself and fight through, there’s this constant battle. So when I'm running along, I'm often got this battle, what I call them, the lion and the snake and you've got the lion who's going “Come on, you can do it, you're so strong, and you're amazing, and you've got this.” And all the positive people that have been in your life represent that line, and then you've got the snake on the other side going “You’re useless, you’re never going to make this. What are you thinking? You couldn't do this, sit down, no one's going to care.” All of this sort of baggage things going on in your mind. And as the day wears on, and the nights or the days wear on, this battle gets bigger and louder and stronger. And this snake tends to get more and more control and you're just hanging on for dear life trying to not let that snake bite you.

Like when I ran through New Zealand and I had 2250 Ks ahead of me. And I've been busy, so busy with the logistics of it, I hadn't actually thought about running what it takes to run 500 Ks a week. And I got to the start line, and then all of a sudden it's set on me like an elephant and I had a panic attack. And my mum was — and this is like five minutes before I meant to start I've got all the media, I've got the crews, I've got everything right, been planning this for four months, raising money for charities, etc. And I just had a meltdown, I went over to my mum, and I'm bawling and I can't breathe and I'm having a panic attack and I go, “Mum, I can't. I can't. 2200, I can't do it and cry my eyes out.” And she like, mum’s puts them in a bear hug and she says, “Stop, stop, stop stop. I want you to think about getting to that power pole up there. That's all you have to do right now. You don't have to run 2250 Ks, you have to run to that power pole. And then we're going to get through the first half an hour. And then we're going to get to lunchtime, and then we'll see.” And by doing that she pull my focus back into the here and the now instead of projecting into the future, which was overwhelming and terrifying. And that's how we broke it down step-by-step. And there were many times along that journey with a pain was just so intense, and my body was breaking down, and I just could hardly even got to a point at one stage where I couldn't even walk without sticks. And I had to let alone run.

I managed to just keep moving forward. And all of a sudden, after two weeks, my body hit the absolute rock bottom and then it started to actually improve again, it was like — and I've heard other ultramarathoners like Charlie Engle and Raisa have crossed the Sahara. Say, it gets worse, worse, worse, worse, worse. And then you hit the rock bottom and it's almost like your body goes “Well, she hasn't quit. So we better get our shit together. We better get organized here because she's keeping going anyway, we're throwing everything at her and she's still going.” And then I actually got better and better as the whole time went on and got stronger. And by the end of that race, well that run was actually stronger than when had been in the first two weeks, which was really bizarre to understand.

Yes, these are these are some of the tricks like you know, association and disassociation, like taking yourself off to your happy place. I often go swimming with whales in my head, someplace, it's completely away from what I'm dreaming. And then if I have a crew which is some races you do, they’d be telling these stories and trying to keep my mind occupied so that I just keep out of my own body. And then other times I'll be in my body and checking in with it and saying, am I drinking enough? Have I had my electrolytes? Have I had my whatever — enough food? So, you're doing all that checklist stuff going through your head.

So, it's a combination of all these things to keep fighting through the hard moments, don't for a minute believe that you get to the Zen state of flow, and you stay there, and that's it. And you're just amazing. There are people that do. And like the guys that run the self-transcendence race, 3100 miles from New York City. That's what they're aiming for this zen state of transcending their body, I've never got there. I tried and I would have, are there moments of it, or even a couple of hours of it, we know completely in this flow state where I can even feel my body, it's like a camera, like, my eyes are like a camera, and I'm just floating through the air. But those times the short loads done fortunately for me because I haven't cracked the code. I haven't probably meditated enough to get there. But it is probably there and it's probably doable.

Geoffrey: Definitely an interesting spiritual, I think, concept I think I've tapped into very rarely as well, or just everything just feels easy. And it's like, wow, I could just do this forever. And if you can hold that, that seems like it would be a magical if you want to get tapped into that consistently.

One of the things I thought was interesting was this notion of just breaking down decomposing a large problem to smaller and smaller bits. And I think this is an adage, or a maxim that I think everyone has heard about, through teachers or stories. I think one thing that I've found through people that really live well-live lives is that you have such visceral experience, pain, scar tissue that anchors that adage to a real experience. And I think that when I step back and think about all the different — whether that's Zen Cohen, or these books with all these best practices and best tips — they're very curt, nice little encapsulated sentences, but they're really almost raisins, or all the juice behind those simple statements of “Hey, break down the marathon into just running to the next lamppost.” But someone who's never done that is like, “Oh, of course, that makes sense. I get it.” But they actually don't get it. And it sounds like you've collected so many of these adages with just truly a broad spectrum of life experiences both very, very positive, and some that are quite sad and quite unfortunate.

A kind of opening up, I mean, are there other kind of interesting adages that you just feel like you have real a depth of understanding, because you've just lived through it?

Lisa: Yeah, and you’re so right. I mean, sometimes it's a good Instagram posts that you see with little quotes, and I've used them too, and you don't actually — it's hard to convey the actual experience. And until you've actually lived through it — and these things have a real value, like breaking things down into minor chunks and keeping your focus close to you and so on. But it is hard for someone who hasn't experienced that to actually know what the hell you're talking about until you're faced with a situation. But the more you learn about the stuff, then when you are doing your next marathon ultramarathon, Geoff, you will have more of these tools already in your head and you say “Oh, Lisa said, have a go at trying this.” And then you try it out in your own body and you realize, “Hmm. This is working, I'm going to work more on this aspect of this tool.” And you do get better at things once you've actually had the experience yourself.

I did want to share one really life-changing event with your audience if I may, Geoff, just go into the story of with my mum.

Geoffrey: Please.

Lisa: Yeah, so throughout the interview, I've mentioned my mum a couple of times as being this amazing, wonderful woman and she's always supported me and all my crazy endeavours and so on, and never ever limited me in my belief of what I can do or was just an amazing woman. And she four years ago had a aneurysm which is a bleed in the brain and was rushed to hospital. We got that horrible phone call rushed up there, mum's collapsed. The ambulance driver said to the doctor, I think she's having a stroke. The doctor decided to ignore that and said “Ah, she's just having a migraine”, which was an absolute disastrous misdiagnosis, if you like. |We spent six hours in the [1:04:22] ED there, not knowing I got caught out. I didn't know what to ask for. I didn't know what was happening to her I knew she was in deep trouble in the doctor was just ignoring us. Painkillers weren't working. She was in extreme pain.

And I had a paramedic friend who crew for me on many of my races and I rang her and said, “Please can you get up here? I don't know what I don't know what to ask for. But there's something major wrong with mum.” So she came out and took one look at her and since she's having a neurological event of some sort, went and got the doctor and shook him out of his stupidity. And to get her a CT scan right now. She's having a stroke or something like that.

They took her through after six hours and had a CT scan and it came back blood right throughout the brain, aneurysm. And they didn't expect that she was going to live, it was horrific state of affairs by this time. And that experience was for me, like my mum's life's hanging in the balance. And I've been caught short not knowing what to ask for what to do and being too damn polite to push the doctors for more and it could cost of my mother her life. We had a we had another 12 hours wait for the air ambulance to come because they had to transfer her to another hospital because we live in a small town. And we didn't have the things, took 18 hours to get her into there. And in that time, and I just like, if I get a second chance to help my mum bring her back then I'll do everything in my power to to make this right.

And she had a operation, and she was in and out. She had two operations in the next couple of days. And she was in and out of a coma fighting for a life, in a critical condition, they didn't think she was going to make it. And in this time, I started to study everything about brains and aneurysms, and brain rehabilitation and everything I can possibly find on their wonderful world of the internet, Dr. Google. And I started like, I'm not going to be caught short again. And upshot of it was after three weeks, she stabilized and she was taken out of the ICU and she'd survived. But she had basically no higher function juice, she had a couple of words, but no real speech, she had no memory of who she was, what she was, or that I was her daughter, or anything like that. She had no ability to control any of your bodily functions, like massive mess of brain damage.

And after three months in the hospital, they said, “Look, she's never going to do anything again. Make her as comfortable as possible. She's 74, the brain damage is so extensive. We have to put her into a hospital level care age facility. And yeah, that’s it.” And as you might tell them quite a stubborn person, I was like, “No way am I leaving my mum in a place like that and I'm taking their home. And they said, “Look, you're not going to cope, she's 24/7, round the clock here.”

So I had a hell of a battle on my hands to get her home. And this time, I'm studying everything around, supplements for brain injury, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, sleep apnoea, all of these things that could be affecting her. And I worked out that she likely had sleep apnoea, and she was sleeping 20 hours a day anyway. The doctors ignored me again, I got an outside consultant who came in to sleep apnoea test, and it came back severe sleep apnoea. And she was knocking off her brain cells. And so we're not when we got that onto her and the CPAP machine, she started to have a little tiny bit more function. And I was like, right, what else can oxygen do?

Now I've done a lot of races or three races, sorry, at altitude in the Himalayas. And I know what it is to have oxygen deficit. And I had a situation where I'd been in one of these altitude training teams for a number of weeks, sleeping at night, and I'd been up too high at six and a half thousand meters. And I'd knocked off a lot of my brain cells and ended up with a hypoxic brain concussion myself, and ended up with infections going crazy because when your body doesn't have enough oxygen, it produces a lot a lot more bacteria and infections run wild and I was seeing this in my mum. And I'm thinking she's not getting enough oxygen despite the sleep apnoea machine and everything, what else can I do to get more oxygen? They wouldn't let me put supplemental oxygen on here. They said she didn't need it. And so I was at odds with the doctors from the get go. They were feeding her absolute crap.

Geoffrey: So I'm like, that’s basically corn syrup or something. I mean, if you look at the bags of the hospital, it's a bit of food. It's literally like corn syrup is one of the main ingredients. Kind of shocking, actually.

Lisa: It’s shopping for brain injury, actually,. [1:09:05] do you find that? No, because when you put glucose into a person who has a brain injury, it suppresses their own ketone production. And the ketones are the only things — when you have a brain injury you have a metabolic dysregulation where you can't use glucose. So, by giving someone glucose you're actually suppressing the little amount of ketones that they do have and that was all of their brain was running on and now they're giving a glucose right and Ensure and all this crappy stuff.

I didn't know that at that time. But this is why research is important. I now know that. I did start to put her on fish oils and a keto diet as soon as I couldn't get her out of hospital — high fats, good MCT oils and ketones, exogenous ketones, etc. Long story short, we were finally got her home, after a massive fight at the hospital to get her home. I had to get my brother who looks a bit like Dwayne Johnson to help me convince doctors to give us the resources we wanted which is just a caretaker in the morning and someone in the evening so to help with their personal cares and we got her home.

Then I've been studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And now this is a super powerful. People, go and research with hyperbaric is amazing for brain injury, also for gangrene and burns, diabetic wounds. They use this as a totally underutilized therapy. And I found out that this could help brain injury, I studied the work of Dr. Hatch in America, who has written The Oxygen Revolution, which is a book on hyperbaric. And I thought this is mum's chance, if I can get her a hyperbaric access to a hyperbaric chamber, I could maybe save her.

And of course, we didn't have one in our hometown or so I thought. And then I found a dive company that had one because they use these for dive accidents when divers get the beans and we have a port in a commercial dry facility. And so I approached these guys, and I said, “Can I use your facility? This is my situation.” They said, “Yep, sign a legal waiver. We know the power of hyperbaric and we know it's powerful. We'll give you access to it.” These are kind amazing people gave me access to this chamber.

So as soon as I got her out of the hospital, I took her down to this factory, strap her on a forklift and put her into this big hyperbaric chamber. Everyone thought I was completely nuts — excuse me — as you can imagine, this fragile delicate lady could hardly even sit. Stuck her in this chamber, we had two to three sessions over the next few weeks. After 33 treatments, she started to come back live, all I can say is that she started to wake up, she started to have words, she started to remember who I was, she started to move her arms. And she wasn't getting up and walking, but she was doing things. I could see a flicker of life in her eyes again. And I'm like, “Oh, my God, this is working.” And then they had to take the chamber off on a contract and I lost access to it.

So then I mortgaged the house and I bought a hyperbaric chamber, but I bought a mild one, Geoff. That only goes to 1.5 atmospheres, that was all I could get access to. But this is perfect for brain injury, actually. It’s almost as good, I'd say it's about 90% as good as what the big ones are for brain injury because you don't need the really low dips. For brain injury, you only need 1.5.

So anyway, I put it through another 250 sessions over the next couple of years and I still continue to put her through. As she started to come back, I had more to work with. So then, I studied Functional Neurology. I studied everything to get her balance and spatial awareness back. I studied nootropics, which you know a lot about. I studied the keto diet and keto and did physio with her.

So, I developed a protocol and a program basically an ADR program every day that I started to put it through as she started to come back. And I've tried to stay one step ahead of her therapy. Now I'm no doctor, but like you, Geoff, I just go hard out into the research and do deep dives and find the answer. When I don't have an answer, I go and I find somebody who knows the answer. And one of the selfish reasons I started my podcast was so that I can have amazing people like you and doctors and scientists on there so that I could get access to the best minds in the world for this thought.

Geoffrey: Don't give away our secret, right? Don't give away secrets. That's honestly one of the best perks of having a podcast it's you get the great meet great people. It's true.

Lisa: It is. It's the greatest reason to do a podcast. And so I would get these experts in different fields and I would learn from them and a lot of people helped me with different aspects that they were specialists in. And together we've created a miracle. My mum — now four years on — my mum is completely normal. She is reading, writing, walking, she walks a couple of kilometres a day. She goes to the gym six days a week. She has a full driver's license back, she's regained her peripheral vision even, all her reaction tests are back to pre-aneurysm levels. And this is 78 years old, Geoff. Like she's this, neuroplasticity in someone of this age is pretty unheard of.

I had one example of this and Dr. Norman Doidge’s book, the brain The Brain that Heals Itself, of Dr. Becky Rita, who was a scientist whose father had a brain injury, a massive stroke, and he had brought him back and he was in his early 60s and he had taught him. So I knew that somebody in the world had done what I needed to do, but they were like 14 years younger. So I had nobody really who could pave the way for me, but I had at least that sort of information.

And so now mum is a full driver's license, full power of attorney back over her life, full independence. We still work every single day. Unless I'm traveling for work, I'm working with her, pretty much five to six hours a day now. And we still have to keep the pedal to the metal, there’s a few things like her foot drags, and so on, on the right side, and she has a few issues. But I've got my mum back for crying out loud.

It's an amazing, miraculous story. And I was so amazed at this whole journey that I ended up writing a book and it’s called Relentless, it tells the story of bringing my mum back and the lessons that I took from the running. So there's a lot of the running stories in there. But it takes some of those lessons and how I applied it in this real-world situation. Because if I hadn't had that bit resilience, if I hadn't had the belief that the human body and mind are capable of far more than what the average person thinks it is, then I would have listened to the naysayers and I would have given up. But because I've seen crazy things like blind people running across the stairs [1:15:55], someone on crutches doing the marathon the sob lays that with multiple sclerosis, I've seen a dude run across the valley with one leg. I've seen people with hip replacements, people with broken back. And I know the power of the human spirit if they don't give into the naysayers.

And that's why I was so passionate to give back getting this book out because I wanted to share those mental insights plus all the protocols that I used for them, and, and give other people hope, who are going through whatever the difficult time is that they're going through whatever crisis.

Geoffrey: Yeah, it's an incredible turnaround and an incredible end result here. I mean, my understanding of the prognosis is that if you kind of miss diagnose an aneurysm for that length of time, it's, I mean, either deadly, or I think what it sounded like from your conversation with the doctors, they essentially were saying, “Hey, we're kind of giving up, she's going to be a kind of a vegetable, like, kind of a expectation –

Lisa: That’s exactly the words they use.

Geoffrey: And then to turn around and see that now, what, 78 she's a fully —

Lisa: Fully normal

Geoffrey: She's back. Have you gone back to the doctor? Have you tried to get like a —

Lisa: Get them to try it [laughs]

Geoffrey: have you turned this into a case study? Yeah, I think it just like — this is not even a buy in or show that, “Hey, you're wrong.” This is more of a, “Hey, this is something that a lot of people could potentially learn about to adjust a standard of care and to help improve the medical system. Right?” It's just like, what you have here is a very interesting “n equals one.”

I think the critics would say, well, it's not randomized. There's not controlled, fair enough. Fair enough. I think that's like valid critique, it's fair critique. But there's clearly some signal here. Right? There's definitely something that was anomalous in terms of the turnaround, can we actually take lessons and take protocols, and potentially get them through more of a randomized control trial to see if this replicates and across a broader population. But at least there's some signal and hope for any open minded scientist that's trying to say, “Hey, like, let's improve the current standard care.” I'm curious in terms of as you've been sharing, and working their publishing process, have you come back to the traditional standard of care practitioners, clinicians, and help them adjust potentially their standard of care?

Lisa: I've desperately tried to do that. And one of the reasons, the main reason for this book is to try to get a movement around this because everybody who's going through any sort of brain injuries is facing the same problems, whether it been on a lesser scale or like this.

And what I found is there are so many amazing doctors in the USA and unfortunately, they're in the USA. People like Dr. Hatch, I had a Doctor Kabran Chapek on my podcast two weeks ago, who I highly recommend for your show, actually, and he has written a book called Concussion Rescue. And I was reading just the chapter titles as I first got this and going, “Holy shit. This is exactly the protocol I've used.” And it's been put into a book by a doctor, thank god! And I was absolutely ecstatic to have him on the show. And he ratified all the things that I had been through, and he is desperately trying to get this information out there because this is relevant for people with dementia and Alzheimer's, just as much as it has relevance for stroke in aneurysm victims and concussion victims.

This is right across the board information for brain health. And so I have failed in the local doctor level. But I'm starting to be asked to speak at medical conferences. I've just been invited to speak at the world [1:19:39] outside mother and dementia conference. And I'm hoping that that will actually happen because I'm desperate for the doctors to understand the limitations in our system. And a lot of it is a lack of resources and it's also sort of institutionalized ways of thinking and the siloed ways of thinking.

And now there's some major Doctors like Dr. Chapek, but also like Dr. Mark Hyman, David Perlmutter — Dr. Perlmutter, and Dr. Austin Perlmutter, and they're putting these protocols together now, and they're putting them in the mainstream. I don't know if you've heard of the Broken Brain series by Dr. Mark Hyman, and Dhru Purohit, from Broken Brain, the podcast, and the work that they're doing, that type of information is starting to now permeate through. But it's so slow, as you know, even in this day and age with social media and the power or all this. I am one voice, I am one story. And the doctors who generally go “There's not it's not relevant, there's no clinical studies.” We didn't have spec scans. We weren't because we didn't have access to any of that to categorize, to see this process. So I don't have any proof except the videos that I took, my little amateur iPhone videos that I took all the way through this process. And I'll send you a little, just a two-minute clip, Geoff that you might want to put in the notes. And you'll see mum going from not being able to sit properly to mum being able to do a little 50 metre run and they can see for themselves that that transformation. And it's unfortunately very amateurish, and very, iPhone family videos. And that's all I've got is proof, the rest is just my anecdotal stories.

But I'm hoping that I can add my voice to the movement, I can add my voice to those of like Dr. Hyman and co, who are changing this world, and even what you're doing in the nootropics space. This isn't just about brain injury, but optimal brain performance in the keto space. That information is you combine a keto diet with hyperbaric and nootropics, and you got a combination for a great healing potential with brains?

Geoffrey: Yeah, I think that's what's exciting. There's clearly much more to be understood and much more science to be done. And I think this is how, if you get a look at the history of science, who knows if the Newton's story of an apple falling on his head, made him think about gravity, but it's just these observations, these interesting signals that guide us towards testing and understanding and making good hypotheses and testing them. And I think that, especially in this faceting and turnaround story, it's clearly signal here. And it's clearly, it sounds like it's being replicated across other folks who have been going through similar protocols.

And it's okay, hopefully, we can have this body of evidence that build momentum to hopefully change standard of care. And I think that's like a hold. I think, ultimately, what we all want to hear, it's not like, I don't think you have like a dogmatic reason to make something up. But just like, “Okay, this really helped my mum, other people should know about it.”And yes, if people want more evidence, and let's run the studies, people want to try something because they're desperate, here's a potential option. I think that's ultimately what I believe it's like, the world's going to bend towards truth. And if we can accelerate us, like the humanity as a whole, to get to truth faster, because it will help more people. I'm all about that.

Lisa: Exactly. And this is what the power of the day and age that we're living with these podcasts and in all the research that is now becoming available, we're starting to see the power of just people movement — this is a movement of the people to start to change the systems. And this is not to, we had a discussion on our show about some failings in the system, and we're not pointing the finger at any one particular person here.

But what I want people to take away from the story is take ownership of your own health. Research. Even if you're not science nerds, like Geoff, and I, go and find the research, do your due diligence. People spend more time buying a car and researching the car than they will for their own health. And for me, that's ridiculous. You know, instead of just taking somebody's word for it, your local doctor’s word for it, that this particular drug is going to fix all your woes, how about just looking a little bit deeper and finding out your own research and taking ownership of your own health and then implementing some good basic healthy structures to your diet, your nutrition, your exercise regimes, the things that we know work for a start.

And then we can't wait. I could not wait with mum’s situation for the clinical trials to come through. I had to weigh the risks. And I did play doctor and a lot of cases, I had to weigh the risks and make educated decisions. And a lot of it was like, “Well, what's the alternative? The alternative is she's going to die very soon.” So it was that much of a desperate situation that I was willing to take some risks to get some something back.

And I've been criticized immensely for a lot of stuff that I did and for pushing my mum so hard and putting her through a torturous regime of training. But I believe it no matter how old you are – whether your 5 or your 105 – people need challenge. They need goals, they need things to be working towards. When we make older people are treasured valued older citizens who should be treasured in our society and who often aren't, when we make them feel like your past your useful day and you're no longer useful. And we just want to make you comfortable because that's what we do as humans, but we're not going to actually treat you like as a person with a history and a story and wisdom to share. And it’s terribly patronizing and horrific.

And I come from the Maori culture in New Zealand, where our elders are very respected and loved and revered for their wisdom. And unfortunately, that's not the general society that I live in. It's within my culture, but not within the wider New Zealand culture and I believe in other places as well. We have this attitude, “Well, you use your past, you're used by dates.”And certainly when it comes to resources and medical funding, I had to fight like crazy for the resources because she was an older adult. And for me, that's we've got to do better. We've got to do better. And we've got to respect our elders. They're the ones who made us who we are and we we’re all heading there, we're all getting older. Do you want to be treated like that? Ask yourself, is that what you want for yourself? For your loved ones? Then, we've got to do better and our standard of care, I think for older people. And that's a completely different topic. I could rant on about, too.

Geoffrey: Absolutely. I think the title of the book, Relentless, very apt title. Not just in terms of the relentlessness in terms of taking care of your mum, but also just your life story, just not stopping, being relentless. And it sounds like you have a number of projects going on all the time.

So what's in store for you in 2020? For the folks follow what you're up to? Where do what are some of the upcoming projects they're really excited about in 2020 and onwards?

Lisa: Yeah, look, I’m really excited from a business perspective. So, we're doing deep dives and we teach already epigenetic testing and do that with our clients. And now we have an online run training program. So we're expanding that and growing our business, from that point of view. We're looking at a couple of Venture Capital Partners and going into the pro aging space and looking into developing programs around piecing together some of the pieces of the puzzle we already have in place with our epigenetics and DNA testing and supplements, and so on.

So we're not quite sure where these negotiations and things are going to take us. But it's really exciting times for us as a company, and we're starting to expand and grow quite fast in and it's bringing its challenges with it as well, as you would well know. And it's exciting times for me on that front. So I'm not doing any long distance running myself personally anymore because I have to look after my mum seven days a week and run these other companies. So that combination is enough for me to cope with at the moment.

And that's okay, we all have times in life where sometimes I catch myself going oh, I’m a has-been, I can't do it anymore. And then I’m like, “Pull yourself together, you've got a mission now. You're on another mission and that requires sacrifice and that sacrifices I can't go off and expeditions at the moment and do more crazy stuff.” But that's okay, I've done enough. And my body certainly said to me a few times I've had enough. So yeah, really excited for the time of the day and age that we're living in, in getting to network with people like you is just gold. It really is. I really love this sort of stuff, just it inspires me to keep going.

Geoffrey: A hundred percent. Well, I can't think of a better note to end on. So Lisa, really, again, I had a lot of fun on your podcast and equally as if not more fun, actually just listen to your story, reinvigorated, re inspired, of what we're doing what you're doing.

So thank you for taking the time. We have to get in touch in person and maybe do a little bit of a light ultramarathon together.

Lisa: Absolutely. I would love to train you out for one. Anytime you need some help and structure and coaching, reach out to us. And I hope now that we will stay connected Geoff because I really admire the work you do on this podcast. I love listening to all your interviews, it's some gold and here. And I just love being around, inspiring and inspirational people who are out there empowering other people and doing what they love.

So I think we'll stay connected for sure and I'd love to invite you to New Zealand at some stage when you want a holiday, so let me know.

Geoffrey: Alright. I'll hold you to that. All right, thank you so much.

Lisa: Thanks!

Outro H.V.M.N: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the H.V.M.N podcast. If you're interested to learn more about H.V.M.N and our offerings, visit hvmn.com/pod. Please remember to subscribe. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please give this video a like and remember to hit that bell to get notified whenever we post. We also have a dedicated Discord server which you can join by first taking a short survey and then I'll personally send you an invite to join the community. The link to that survey will be in the description along with any other relevant links, and we'll see you all next week.

Outro (Pushing the Limits): That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure

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The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Exercise gives our body a physical and mental boost. It’s good stress, but it’s stress nonetheless. Thus, doing a running warm-up before an interval run or training is integral to get the most benefits out of running.

Neil joins me in this episode to explain the steps in preparing for a running workout. We emphasise the importance of setting your mindset before training. We also cite different examples of run-specific movements, drills and breathing exercises.

If you are a runner wanting to do a running warm-up right, then this episode is for you.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. You will learn about the role of stress levels and mindset when preparing for training. 2. Know more about running warm-up and breathing exercises. 3. Discover the importance of run-specific movements.

Resources * Email lisa@lisatamati.com to know more about my health optimisation consulting. * Visit my YouTube channel to watch warm-up, workout and training videos for runners.

Episode Highlights [03:47] Understanding Your Bucket of Stress * The bucket of stress is filled with things going on in your daily life. You layer exercise on top of it. * Having an overflowing bucket and doing high-intensity interval running will cause more stress to the body, causing injuries and pain. * Conduct a wellness check to assess your current state. The checklist includes sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, energy, body, and stress. * Listen to the full episode to learn more about computing your wellness score! * Change your warm-up and training to suit how you are feeling.

[12:13] Shifting Your Mindset * Neil is a father of three. He works out because he wants to be a superhero for his kids. * Figure out what training means for you. * Mindset is essential when doing a workout. You need to shift from work mode to training mode. * Incorporate diaphragmatic breathing exercises to activate your body’s parasympathetic state.

[18:47] Activating Your Muscles * Spiky balls, rolling sticks and foam rollers are some of the tools you can use to activate your muscles. * Expose your feet to neural stimulation to get them to move freely. * Because the feet are connected to other parts of the body, activating it will start to relax the muscles and tissues above it. * Activation may vary from person to person. Some people have a lot of tension in their bodies, while others are hypermobile.

[22:11] Static vs Dynamic Stretching * Static stretching is holding a single stretch in one position for 30 seconds or longer. * Doing a static stretch lengthens and switches off the muscles, making them too relaxed. The body thus becomes too floppy. * Static stretching has its benefits after a run or during a yoga session but not before a run. * Dynamic movements allow the body to move more freely.

[25:48] Warm-Ups and Fascia * The fascia connects the different parts of our body from our head to toes. Fascia lines run across the body. * Warm-ups should help open, lengthen and move the fascia. * Stretching and moving the fascia allow you to move better and run more freely.

[31:47] Doing Drills * It is best to do run-specific movements and drills. * Ball of foot hops and carioca are some of the drills to help you warm up. Listen to the full episode to learn how Neil does his warm-ups! * Listening to music helps to have cadence. You may create playlists for before and after you run. If you’re doing a recovery run, you can use calmer music.

7 Powerful Quotes from This EpisodeThat's what training is about. It's not about the actual run where you actually get the results. It’s in the recovery phase’.

How you prepare your mind is going to be key when you understand your “why” before you warm up’.

A lot of people find their toes are bunched together and tight. If we can get some movement through those, we start to get more benefit from our running as well’.

Gone are the days of static stretching and standing on the doorstep during your quad stretch, holding. All you're doing there is switching the nervous system off and increasing your likelihood of injury and discomfort’.

You take which bits of the tools you want out of the toolbox, and then you start using them from your perspective’.

Looking at what you're currently doing, who you are and how much in a warm-up — what percentage you use each tool for will be quite different for each person’.

You will have — and I promise you this — a much more fun run, and you'll enjoy it more if you've put the time into this warm-up piece of the puzzle’.

Enjoy the Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can optimise their running warm-up.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Welcome to Pushing The Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential, with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to this week's episode of Pushing The Limits. Today, I have Neil Wagstaff, who is my wingman at Running Hot Coaching, and we're going to be talking everything about running and preparation for a good training session — how to tell if you're ready for that session that's on your list today.

We're talking about stress levels. We're talking sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. We're talking activating muscles. We're talking lymph and circulation and a whole lot of great info that you don't want to miss if you're into exercising, fitness or running. Before we go over to the show, though, I just want to remind you please give a rating and review to the show if you enjoy it. Share it with your family and friends.

We've been going now for five and a half years, and we've been in the top 200 globally ranked shows in health and fitness genre, and we really appreciate your support. And every one of those reviews and ratings really helps the show get seen by more people, heard by more people, so that they can get this great information that we're getting out.

Just want to also let you know, we are taking on a small number of clients on one-on-one health optimisation consulting. If you got a really tricky health situation, if you're not getting the results that you want in the normal world, if you are needing help navigating some complicated situations, then we'd love to help you. We only work with a very, very few people at a time. And that requires quite a commitment from us, from the research side of things in helping people optimise their health or navigate their way back to health. So if it sounds like something like you would like to know about, please email me lisa@lisatamati.com. We only work with a very few people at a time at that level. So just letting you know that that's available.

Now over to the show with Neil Wagstaff in Havelock North. And I hope you enjoy this fantastic interview.

Lisa: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing The Limits. This week, I have my wingman, Neil Wagstaff. Neil, how are you doing?

Neil: I'm good. Thanks, mate. I'm very good. How are you?

Lisa: It's very hot here. I'm sweating as well.

Neil: Here as well.

Lisa: Very humid! Right, people. Today, we have a really good webinar for you, podcast episode for you, all around the importance of — this one’s for runners, really — and it's all around runners warm-ups. Why do you need to do one, what's included, why you need to incorporate breathing into that warm-up routine. It's more than just running warm-ups, believe me, you'll get some great value, if you're a runner in this one, or if you're into fitness.

And we're going to be talking about the importance of running specific movements to prepare for your run. And we're going to be going over some of our top drills to activate your body and get you ready. So, Neil, we did a fabulous session yesterday on this, and it was so valuable we decided we got to record this for the podcast, so… Over to you, mate.

Neil: Thanks, mate. Thanks, and as you say, it is a lot more than just the runners warm-up, but it's… Gone are the days we just lace up your shoes and run out the door. That's what many, you know, we definitely did in the older days. And a lot of our clients we work with do, a lot of people, as you said in the introduction, as well, it’s not just the runners. It's in an exercise environment as well. So we put a lot of emphasis on this in the gym environment. So important, there should be some good nuggets for everyone.

So the first thing first before you even think about the warm-up is understanding about what we call your bucket of stress. So the bucket of stress, if you will imagine you've got that bucket sitting in front of you. And within that bucket, there's things that will fill it up. Now some of those things are going to be what's going on in your daily life. They're going to be your kids. They're going to be your work. They're going to be family. They're going to be other stresses that are happening, and then you layer exercise on the top of it.

So with the bucket stress, it’s understanding how full yours is. If you're going to go out and do a high-intensity interval run, where you're doing 1K intervals at 80, 90% of your max effort, and your bucket is already overflowing, then that run, those interval runs on top are just going to cause your body more stress or more loads, which will give you a pretty harsh response, which will then result in injuries, niggles and pain.

Lisa: Yeah.

Neil: On days where your bucket is full, what you want to be doing is really changing your workout or changing your routine to suit how you're feeling. Okay, you know, I've had massive conversations over the years about the bucket.

What's your— give us your perspective of it and how you manage your routine a little bit differently now.

Lisa: Yeah, and I'm still probably a bad example some days.

Neil: You’re a good work in progress. You’re a good work in progress.

Lisa: Do what I say not what I preach sometimes. But it's really, I have really adopted the fact that it is important to do a warm-up when you're preparing for a run. And also to understand what we're trying to get across here is that just because stress is good for your body— I mean, sorry, running is good for your body or exercise is a good stressor, if you like, it is still adding to your total stress load.

So the level that Neil used to run it when he was not a dad of three little children and had a bit more time and didn't have a massive German, a couple of businesses to run, he could dedicate more intense time to training without breaking himself, if it makes sense. Now, because his energies are split in every which way, he has to be a little bit more careful how he prepares for an event, the time that he takes for it, and the time that he prepares his body.

So if your training plan says today, you should be going out and smashing a really long run or a really intense run, but you haven't got the resources because you had a really shitty night sleep, and you didn't drink enough yesterday, and you didn't eat properly, and the kids have been up all night, and goodness knows what else — you've got a lot of stress and a lot of worries on your mind — then you're probably not going to get to that adaption— adaptation, sorry, when you do that training, which is what you're actually doing it for.

It's not just about ticking the box because my coach said or my plan said that I had to do that today. And I've ticked the box, therefore I am good to go. It is about saying, 'Is my body going to respond to this training session today’? Yes or no? Or, ‘Would I be permitted to postpone that really intense workout to a little bit later, maybe tomorrow? And I'll get to bed early tonight. And I’ll drink well, and I’ll hydrate well. An I’ll do all the other bits and pieces as well. And then I might be a bit more prepared for that'. Does it make sense? So you’re not doing things when your body is not going to get the adaptations because that's what training is about. It's not about the actual run where you actually get the results; it’s in the recovery phase. So understanding where your body is at, which is a really good segue into our wellness checklist. Isn't that, Neil?

Neil: Yeah. So yes, you go through as well as, just asking yourself each day, where you're at a number of different things and things we get with our wellness checklist. And you can all do it at home as you listen to this. It’s a simple scale of 1 to 10. So 1 to 10 on these things we're going to talk about. How well did you sleep? That's the first one. How well have you eaten, and where you're at from nutrition point of view? Lisa's already mentioned hydration, number three. So how well have you hydrated? How well have you moved? What sort of exercise movement have you done in the past day? On a scale of 1 to 10. And then energy wise, where's your energy score at? 1 being the toilet, 10 being at rock and roll levels, you’re ready to party. And body, any niggles, any injuries? And your stress score, so 1 with the stress will be low and 10 will be good. That gives you a total score.

If you've got a score up over 50, and it'd be a good indication that you're ready to go and do a warmup that relates to what's in your program. If it’s saying that, we're doing the example, the 1K, then that puts us in a position that we should be ready to do it. If my score is lower, which some days it is, then I'll look at my program and go right, I've got intervals. But I mean, my score’s down at 40. So those two workouts don't match up then. So what I then do is go, ‘I can still go train, but my training may be a recovery run instead so I feel my energy levels back up’.

If you are continuously having low scores with this full stress bucket, it's not a runner's warm-up you want to be considering. It's about— it's really another strategy, which is how am I going to empty some of my stresses out of my bucket? Because your bucket should be managed on a daily basis. So that you, you know, 80, 90% of the time you're doing what your program says, it's just having the confidence and understanding that some days when things don't go perfectly you can tweak it.

Okay, so just to recap: sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, energy, body, and stress, scale of one to 10. 1 being in the toilet, 10 being rock and roll. And we can send the, or add the…

Lisa: Yeah, we’ll put this in the show notes, actually, the checklist.

Neil: Wellness check to the show notes. Yeah, so that's understanding again really helps you manage your bucket. So before you've even warmed up, you're asking, what's my session I'm going to do? Now, I know what type of warm-up to do. The other bit to consider as well is really, really a little bit about your why. If you are… Many programs out there, what we've looked at over the years, designed by ex-professional runners, often male, without giving them a hard time, and often by men.

And in our business, we work with a lot of ladies. Over 70% of our business is working with females. And a lot of our athletes we're working with, mums or dads, and they have got busy work lives, busy family lives. So those programs are running five, six days a week just doesn't work. So ask the question as well, what's your why? And who are you? So for me, personally, as Lisa knows, my three little ones, Ellen, Cameron, Annie, I love the idea of getting dressed up as Superman. Okay, and we shared a couple of pictures of me dressed up as Superman.

So it's understanding what your why is and why you're doing it. I want to be a superhero for my kids. Therefore, the type of workout is different now, as Lisa said earlier, than I was doing in my… pre-kids. And when I was back in my 30s, then I was thinking more like a professional parkour athlete and wanted it to be doing. So therefore, the warm-up is going to be different. So what we're trying to do, and the big thing especially from Lisa's perspective as well, is how important mindset is. We're really big on that with what we do as well.

So understanding what mindset you're going into this workout in. So for me, I'm going in as a superhero, wanting to be a superhero, for my kids. Some people who are listening will be going in with a professional athlete mentality. So how you prepare your mind is going to be key when you understand your ‘why’ before you warm up. There's no need for me to warm up like a professional athlete if I'm wanting to go and warm up like a superhero. It’s a different mindset as I do that. Does that make sense?

Lisa: Yeah, it does make sense. And I mean, like, I'll give you an example out of my sort of, you know, day. So if I'm, like, full on busy with the business all day, and I'm sitting a lot at the computer and meetings, and blah, blah, blah. And then comes five o'clock and I go right, I'm shutting the computer, I'm out the door. And if I go out without any preparation, and we've had arguments with people, they said, ‘Well, I've just slowly increased my pace. Isn't that a warm-up’? No, it's not a warm up. And I'm still guilty of this on occasion when because you're like, you've got half an hour, and you got to get out the door. And you don't want to do a warm-up, and so…

But there's a couple of pieces missing out of that puzzle. One, there's a really important reason why you— firstly, you want to shift your mind, you've been in work mode all day. And now you got to, ‘Oh my gosh, I got to go and train’. And the last thing you feel like when you've been sitting for hours in a static position is to go and do a full on workout. So you have to change your mindset because you can fail before you get out the door. And a lot of people have this argument with themselves every single day. It's like, ‘That’s on my list, but I’m knackered from work, and I don't feel like going out the door. And I just want to go home and eat a packet of chips and sit on the couch’.

And so there's a couple of tricks that I use to get myself out of that thought process. So the couple of rituals that I do. So when I go and I go, ‘Right, I'm going to get into my training gear, regardless of whether I'm going out the door or not because I'm just going to do that’. And when I just go and do that, I put my training gear on, that is a ritual for me that I am… My body starts to go, ‘Oh, when we're heading for training. We better get ready’. And it gives you enough, a couple of minutes, just to get your mind in that new space. You've been in the work space or the driving space or whatever you've been in, and now you're entering a new phase, and you're bringing yourself into the present moment. You're getting your gear on, and for me, putting my running gear on as always, for me, like putting on my armor, and I'm getting ready for a battle of sorts. It doesn't always have to be a hardcore workout, but I'm getting ready for action.

Then the next thing I do once my gear is on, it's like, well, ‘I might as well just do a little bit of a warm-up and see how I go’. Like this is when I'm having those days when I don't want to train, you know, you know those ones. These are the tricks that I do to get myself out the door. So then I start to activate my muscles. And we're going to go through a whole list of things with Neil, right now. But just from a mindset point of view, when I start doing my dynamic stretches and my activation and my thing, and I'm getting my heart rate up. And then by the time I've done that for a few minutes, my mind is ready for the actually going out and then my body is also woken up.

So that's just a little bit of a mindset tip to get yourself out the door and bring yourself into the present moment. We also like to incorporate in that some breathing exercises, just, we could talk for hours on breathing. There is so much to learn about breathing. But just to give you just a simple quick exercise that you can do before you go out. So you've just come from work. You're going to do a box breathing exercise, where you're breathing in for four in the inhale, holding it for four, out for four with the exhale — a nice strong exhale — and then holding it for four. And you just do that box rhythm for maybe three, maybe four breaths. And in that time, close your eyes, seem to yourself into your body, start to feel your heart pumping, start to feel how do my arms and my legs feel, and you're just pulling your focus in, and then you'll be ready. Once the time you've opened your eyes, you'll be ready to get underway or get your warm-up sorted. So those are just a couple of little quick mindset tips to help you over that hump, whether it's in the morning and you get out of bed and you're going training or after work or whatever the case may be.

Neil: Perfect, Lisa. Let’s go with the breathing just to add in as well, it’s the… often, when you've not just flipping the mindset, you're also flipping things like the diaphragm. A lot of the time, if people have been in a sympathetic state throughout the day, which a lot of us are throughout the day now. Then if we go to, we're breathing through our upper chest and breathing through our shoulders, a lot of people will get massive results, just by them realizing that they can breathe properly into their lungs, and they're actually going out with not having enough energy to run because their breathing patterns, off. So getting that breath going, and as Lisa said, with the nasal breathing is a great thing to add in, a very simple thing to add in as well. As we go through this, this already, we haven't even got to the moving part yet, we've already had quite a long discussion, we want people to realise is we're creating a toolbox for you. That's a toolbox of things that you'll be able to pull out when you need them.

Some of you won't need the breathing as much as others, depending on what else has happened in your day already. It's a great thing to do. But some of you may find you've had quite a relaxing afternoon before you go run, and you're already breathing very nicely. So you don't need to use the breathing as much as someone that's been in a stressful situation for the afternoon or is in a very sympathetic state before they head out.

Lisa: Just briefly on the sympathetic and I think I've covered this in a couple of podcasts. But just to recap.. Sorry, took the computer over. You have a parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system. So you, when you're in a sympathetic state, what we're meaning by that is that you're in a hypervigilant, alert, stressed out state, where you are producing quite a lot of stress hormones. Your cortisol levels might be up. Your adrenaline might be up. And your heart rate might be up, and your breathing, very often, is in the upper third of the chest.

And this is telling your body, 'I'm in fight or flight mode. There’s dangerous things happening to me’, even if those dangerous things are just emails and a shitty telephone call from the boss. Yeah, that isn't necessarily a lion or a tiger that, you know, used to be chasing us when we were back in the caveman days. But it's the same response in the body. And so what we’re wanting to do with this breathing exercise is to doing some diaphragmatic breathing, so that's breathing into the belly, and we're going to do sessions on breathing because honestly, that's a couple of bucks worth.

But it's all about flipping it, getting that sympathetic nervous system activated. So you have nerves in the bottom of your lungs. And when you do very good strong exhales are really important in breathing in with the diaphragm, you're actually activating those nerves at the bottom of the lungs and tuning on that parasympathetic state. Now that parasympathetic state is all about rest and digest and recovery and immunity and all those repair processes. Now, we are going into an exercise situation, but to start off in a place of not being stressed is a good place to start. So flipping your mind and flipping your body over from one thing into the next thing. So that's just a very brief touch on sympathetic versus parasympathetic states.

Neil: The next piece in the… or the next tool in the toolbox is going to be our rolling or myofascial release. So the tools we use for this are spiky balls, one of our favourites, rolling stick, which like rolling pin and a foam roller. Easy wins and low hanging fruit are always going to be your feet because they spend most of the day wrapped up in a shoe. And generally, our feet don't move as well as they should. Our feet should ideally move like our hands do, and our toes should move like our fingers. For most of us they don't so getting them out, getting them exposed to more neural stimulation and releasing any tight bits in the feet and getting them moving more freely makes a massive difference. You got...

Lisa: Can you explain the neural stimulation? I think that's— it’s really why they're activating those fibers in the feet is the connection to the brain and the coordination and…

Neil: Connection to the brain. One thing it does, it's like waking your feet up. So if I spent all day with my hand, for example, in a big glove and deprived it of senses and deprived it of being able to feel and touch things, I'd lose connection with what was going on around me. So I start to lose connection with understanding what was hot, what was cold and what things should feel like. If I can have that stimulation through my foot, and the great thing with a spiky ball, we're not going to smash it, is it starts to wake the feet up again.

So all I'm saying is, wake up, wake up! I'm sending messages from my feet through my nervous system up to my brain going, ‘Ah, that's how I move my big toe’. Ah, that's the big toe, with running real important. But that's how I move it. And that's how my other toes move. A lot of people find their toes are bunched together and tight. If we can get some movement through those, we start to get more benefit from our running as well.

Other people are going to have calves that are locked up and feet that are locked up, everything in your body is connected. So if we start to stimulate the feet, we get massive results with people who've got lower back pain or people who have got shoulder pain or neck pain, because the connection with the fascia in the bottom of your foot, it then runs up the back of your body up across your calf, your hamstrings, your hips, starts to relax a tissue above as well.

So simply two things that are going to happen as you do that. One is you're going to get some muscles relax that need to be relaxed. Then the other thing, you can actually start waking the feet up. Okay, depending on where, and it's gonna be very much dependent on where you're at as a person. Some people are carrying loads of tension in their body, and some people are hypermobile. So those that are hypermobile aren’t gonna need these tools as much as those that are rigid and stiff. Yeah, do I make sense?

Lisa: Yeah.

Neil: You need these tools for what you need. And that's the emphasis we want to make is doing this whole thing when we finish talking about it. And its shortest version would be between five and eight minutes or longer version might be 12 to 15 minutes, but some of you are going to use more tools than others.

So some of you, what we've discussed already, may use the breathing more than the rolling. But feet is an easy win, calves are an easy win. Rolling around the hip area, the glutes is a very easy win, the quads and getting those areas both, switching off muscles that needs to be switched off. But also starting to wake up muscles that need to be woken up. And it's easy ways to do that with those tools. Gone are the days of static stretching and standing on the doorstep during your quad stretch, holding. All you're doing there is switching the nervous system off and increasing your likelihood of injury and discomfort.

Lisa: So just to explain what static and dynamic is for those who perhaps aren't familiar with that term. So static stretching, where you're holding a single stretch in one position for, I don't know, 30 seconds or something or longer. And that's not a good thing to do prior to a run or exercise because you're actually lengthening that muscle, and you're switching it off and making it too relaxed and then you're going to be able to flop it, for lack of a better description when you go out. And so you want to be waking it up, activating it, getting the blood flowing through it, but not turning it off.

The static stretching has its value but that comes after the run or if you're doing, say, a yoga session or something like that, then it's a different thing. But you wouldn't go into a yoga class and then go for a run, for example. That would be a recipe for injury, but you're wanting to activate these different areas. The other thing to note with the foam roller was don't smash the crap out of yourself like, it's not go hard or go home.

Cause I used to do that, to be fair, you know, when I first started with foam rolling years ago. It was like, ‘Ah, the more it hurts, the more I have to do it’, and, you know, as with everything, yep, you fight through the pain. But actually, the more we've learned about lymph and all the other stuff that we've learned in activating, you don't need to go full ball hard. If it's that painful, you should be around, what, six and seven, right, Neil, for what you're doing with the foam rolling. And you know, we have lots of videos and stuff on our YouTube channel if anybody wants to check it out, or, of course, joining our club and you'll find out all that sort of detailed information. So that's the activation phase. Your hips, your calves, your feet are a good place to start.

Neil: It's a good technique, just simple techniques to work with are released with awareness. So we've already talked about breathing. If you find a sensitive spot, you can apply some pressure to that, getting no more than sort of six or seven out of 10. Use your breath, in through your nose, out through your nose to actually release. Your nervous system, we’ve already talked about and your body is fully connected. So by using my mind to tell my brain and to tell my foot or the muscles in my foot to switch off or switch on, I can have that control over my body.

I'm using the spiky ball to stimulate it, which gives me something to feel and then I can say, right, wake up or tone down. So use the breath with awareness or release with awareness by using the breath to actually switch things off. If something feels tight, you can imagine the muscle actually switching off, toning down, almost like it's got a volume button on it and you're turning it down.

Okay. The next technique, which is a good one, is a pin and stretch. So if you find a niggly spot, thinking about rolling the calves. I'm sitting on the floor with my calf and leg up on a roller. If I find a niggly spot, then I can actually pin it. And then I can move my foot backwards and forwards. So I'm pinning and then stretching. I'm moving my foot in and out of plantar and dorsiflexion. Okay, and then actually flushing the muscles as well is another great technique. We're rolling up and down and across the muscle and a great way to… almost like imagining like your muscle’s like a sponge, where you're you're wringing it out and then putting it back in a bucket of water so it can absorb again, and wring it out. So you’re flushing out and getting fluid moving backwards and forwards.

Lisa: Yep. And so on. Yeah, that's absolutely, that’s key.

Neil: Right So next on our list. So now we've breathed, we've worked out where we're at, if we come back from the top, we've worked out more from mindset, breathing, rolling. And now we're going to look at our — the body is all connected — so we're going to look at our fascia. So the body is connected, again, like static stretching — gone are the days where we should be looking at the body in isolation, and looking at warming up or moving specific muscles like our chest on its own, or biceps or triceps on their own, or our thighs on their own.

The body is connected from toes to head. So the fact that it’s connected from toes to head, and there is myofascial lines that are running right across our bodies — front, side, back. We want to be in a position that the movements we're doing in our warm-up should help open, lengthen, move. Imagine your fascia like a superhero suit. I love talking about superheroes and the superhero suit. And you can— that superhero suit should move easily; you should be able to move easily in it. So what we're doing with these big fascia movements, is you want to be in a position where you're getting that superhero suit just to fit a little bit better or fit a bit more comfortably. And if you do that, then it fits more comfortably when you start running. You're running more freely, we haven't got any sticky bits. Okay.

Lisa: So like, just explain a little bit, you know, in two seconds, it's like the chicken skin is. I know. It's like each of these subjects we could do an hour on that seriously, but the fascia, so we all know we've got ligaments, we've got tendons, we've got muscles, but a lot of people really have a struggle. What the hell is fascia then? And what do you mean it's all over my body? And you get that? Like, you know, that…

Neil: Connects absolutely everything. In two seconds, fascia connects everything. It will connect the tissue, like you described the chicken skin on chicken. It's on the superficial level. It connects muscles, it connects bone, it connects your vital organs. So if there's anything locked up in any of that fascia, it's almost like a, like a web, if you look at it.

Lisa: That’s a good analogy.

Neil: And have a look at it. And depending on what parts your body you're looking at will depend on how dense that web is.

Lisa: Like a spider cobweb’s like.

Neil: Exactly, exactly that. You move that to the… To move freely, if I've got something as locked up and my fascia’s sticky, or it's not moving as well as it could, then it could be that I've got a shoulder pain on my left shoulder. And that's actually my right foot. So it’s looking at, and all we're doing with these big fascia movements and looking at myofascial lines, and very simply speaking of the anterior, posterior and downside of the body as well, you’re starting to get that suit to fit more comfortably. We're starting to iron out any of those sticky spots.

Now, if you find that as you're moving through some of these movements, that you find that you are stickier in some areas and others, it starts to let you know that you've got some imbalances there. Now on top of that, as part of dynamic movement, you then want to add in some run-specific movements. So if I'm going to run, I'm going to be spending time on a single leg. I want to, at some point in my warm-up, I want to be doing something that ideally is on a single leg and is involving opposite arm and opposite leg, like running will.

So the warm-ups and dynamic movements we include as part of our warm-up will include stuff that resembles running, gets blood flow and heart rate up, gets tissue open and ready to move and work and gets me ready for the run. So when I get into the run, I'm not spending the first 2 or 3K trying to iron myself out. Open up my fascia, I'm actually running comfy, my body is now awake; my blood pressure, heart rate, breathing rate and tissue are all up and warmer. And I'm in a position where I can move more freely. Yeah, do I make sense?

Lisa: Yep. So without having been able to show you visually here how to do the exercises, what we are working on is giving a little, some sample runner’s warm-ups to do that will show you some of the dynamic movements that we're talking about here to open up and get that fascia going. We haven't got that organised yet, have we, Neil. Hopefully, by the time this comes out, we might have something or coming soon. To give you a bit of an example of the types of things that we're talking about here.

So just to recap from the top once again because it sounds like a hell of a lot to do before every single run. But actually, we're talking five to eight minutes. Or if you're doing a really— that's the other thing, if you're doing a super intense workout, you need to warm up longer. Like today I did an interval session, so I spent more time on the rolling and the activating and the getting the heart rate up and doing the drills, which we'll cover in a second.

And before I actually went hard, because I don't want an injury. And the harder the training session is, the more I'm going to be engaging all my muscles to sprint, then I need to have everything at operating temperature. If you think about a car on a winter's morning, if you turn the motor off and then jam your foot on the accelerator and tear off, what's going to happen? Your car's not going to be very happy with you because it hasn't been able to warm up, get the blood going or the petrol going or whatever it is in a car, and get it up to warmth, get it up to speed, before you go flat tech if it makes sense.

So we've done the mindset, changing your mindset, putting your gear on, getting your head in a good space, tricking yourself into just getting out the blumming door for starters. Then we've covered off some breathing. We've covered off some activation exercises — rolling the feet, rolling the calves, rolling around the hips with the foam rollers and the balls. Then we've gone and looked at some warm-up exercises, which is activating all your fascia or getting your heart rate up and so on. And the last piece of the puzzle — and this should all take you five to eight minutes, 10 minutes if you're doing a hard session — the last part of the puzzle, Neil, what's it?

Neil: It’s the drills. So we do some run-specific drills that are same with the dynamic movement. And this becomes part of the dynamic movements, there's quite a lot of crossover here anyways. It's part of that movement. So things like we were talking about — opposite arm, opposite leg movement. So things like, some of our favourite ones are simple things like ball of foot hops, which is like a skipping movement, where we're just bouncing, landing on the ball of the foot with the heel kissing the floor.

So warming the body up, starting to get the elasticity and the muscle doing the job it should and getting ourselves ready to roll. We use some other run-specific movements like forward land, which is simple opposite arm, opposite leg movement, where we're starting to really work on the pull of the leg and the action of running. And then another good one that we get some great results with is our carioca, which is a crisscross of the legs. And you can do carioca and have a look, and you'll see that all, we've got videos of these drills, if anyone wants them.

Lisa: Yeah, email us.

Neil: Please let us know. And the whole idea of these is that, again, everything — hips are open, heart rate’s up, blood pressure's up, we're ready to move. And we've done some movements that are run-specific, so when we go run, we're actually ready to run. So to break it down and give you an example of what my normal warm-up would look like — I'll always run my feet. Okay, I will always go through my breathing, sort of goes from my breathing start and then go through and roll my feet, and I roll my calves, and I roll across the top of my hips and up either side of my back. So they’re my go-tos. From there, I will do three usually big fascia movements, one for the front of the body, one for the solid body, one for the back of the body. And then I go through two or three drills. I’ll go and run. On a recovery run that will take me about five minutes.

Okay, on a higher intensity run, as Lisa was saying before, on interval run, that might take me sort of 12 to 15 minutes. But it's you… You take which bits of the tools you want out of the toolbox, and then you start using them from your perspective. The other bit to throw in, just throw the mix, finally, is just looking as well, I'm a big fan of using music. We've talked about this quite a lot before as well as. So music helps me have a cadence. So if I'm doing an interval run, I find music really helps me with cadence to help me keep my cadence up. I'm doing a recovery run, then I don't enjoy using music as much because I'd rather you know, hang out and make it more of a meditative state and chill out from there.

So thinking as well about what's in your playlist. Does music motivate you and help add to the mindset? Or does silence help add to the mindset? Working out what you need for each run and should it be part of that session; I use music often in my warm-up. And the music I choose for recovery run is significantly different than one I use when I'm warming up for an interval run. One's going to be really lifting me intensit-wise and mindset wise, the other is going to be letting me know that this is going to be cruising, it's going to be laid back, it's going to be about recovery. Using music as well can make quite a significant difference.

Lisa: Because it's… Sorry. It's all about the mind part of the puzzle really. You know, you put, I don't know, Thunderstruck on when you're trying to do an interval session. And you're like, yeah! And you going for it, and the cadence helps you and so on. And that's using your body to activate those that, again, in that case, you're activating some adrenaline and getting that going, which you need for that session.

And then you know, you want to calmer ones with you if you're just doing a recovery where you don't want to be smashing yourself and you just want to be cruising, then you want a more cruising music. But just on that note, though, just be aware, if you're in traffic, you know, it can be really dangerous. And I've been hit by a car because I had bloody things in my ears, and I was unaware of the traffic around me. So just being a little bit cautious if you are out running on roads and crossing streets, especially when you come to intersections, and you can’t hear that car coming around the corner.

Neil: Pick what you're doing and where you're doing it.

Lisa: Be aware, be aware of your environment.

Neil: Looking, then you should have that toolbox in place now. Looking at what you're currently doing, who you are and how much of a warm-up — what percentage you use each tool for will be quite different for each person. So as we said at the start, some people will need to spend more time breathing. Some people will need to spend more time rolling. Others might need to spend more time with the dynamic warm-up. You'll all do a little bit of each but it's going to be, the percentage will be different. And when you use each tool, it’s going to depend on what you're doing and what's on your program.

Lisa: And one other point here is that you will have — and I promise you this — a much more fun run, and you'll enjoy it more if you've put the time into this warm-up piece of the puzzle. Because I know a lot of us are under time pressure and stress. And we've got like, ‘I've got 30 minutes, I've got to get my running today. That's all I've got, I don't want to spend 10 minutes warming up’. Okay, negotiate with yourself and try to do at least five minutes, because it's better to get that five minutes because that other 25 is going to bring you more than that extra five minutes of running, if that makes sense.

Because you— if you talk to runners, most people and if you're a beginner, you might not be aware of this, but the first 20 to 25 minutes are absolute crap for everybody all the time. You know, it's very rare, where you just run out the door, if you haven't warmed up, that you'll be enjoying yourself and your body will be stiff, it'll be sore, it'll be not activated, you won't have a good posture, you'll feel like your heart and your cardiovascular system isn't woken up.

All of that can be avoided if you do all of this in the preparation. It's like laying the foundation of a house. If you do it on quicksand, you're not going to have a very stable house. If you do it on concrete and you put your foundations and your poles in properly, you're gonna have a house that stands for a long time. You're going to enjoy your run a lot more. You know, today's session was was a classic example of that, you know, interval session full on, hardcore, big good workout, warm-up prior and the session wasn't nearly so difficult than if I just jumped out the door and done it. So don't underestimate that.

Neil: Good polling, Lis. I liked it.

Lisa: Don't underestimate a good warm-up. So people, if you've enjoyed this content, please share this with your friends and family. Share it, get it out there, get it out in the world, we really appreciate you doing that. And if you, you know, want to come and join us at Running Hot Coaching, this is what we do. And what we love is to help people with their running journeys and inform people. And as you can see, we take a very holistic approach to our running into our health programs and to all of the programs that we do.

Because we look at people as whole people and not as runners or not as ‘You've got a health issue or specific health issue’. We look at the whole person the whole time so that you can actually get the best performance because there's no optimal performance without optimal health. That's probably a good place to leave it, actually.

Neil: I like it.

Lisa: Well, thanks for joining us today. Thanks, Neil, for your wisdom as always — epic. Really appreciate you, right. And we'll see you again next week. Thanks, guys!

That's it this week for Pushing The Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Sepsis is a massive health issue worldwide. According to WHO, nearly 50 million people get sepsis every year, killing 11 million. Here in New Zealand, one in five ICU patients dies because of it. Thus, raising awareness about the role of vitamin C in sepsis can help save lives.

Dr Anitra Carr joins us in this episode to expand our understanding of the role of vitamin C in our body. She also explains how vitamin C functions not only as an antioxidant but also as a cofactor in many different mechanisms, particularly in fighting cancer and sepsis.

Everything we share in this episode will be helpful for you should you find yourself or a loved one admitted to a hospital, so tune in.

Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.

You can also join their free live webinar on epigenetics.

Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.

Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.

Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/

For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.

My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn more about vitamin C’s antioxidant properties. 2. Discover how vitamin C helps patients with pneumonia and sepsis. 3. Learn about vitamin C’s role as a cofactor and how it ensures the proper functioning of different body processes.

Resources * Read more about Dr Carr's study on vitamin C levels in patients with pneumonia. * Access Dr Carr's review on recommended doses of vitamin C. * Health and Immune Function Benefits of Kiwifruit-derived Vitamin C by Dr Anitra Carr * Read more about Dr Carr's ongoing clinical trial on vitamin C and its effect on COVID-19 patients. * Learn more about Dr Paul Marik's protocol for sepsis using vitamin C and steroids. * Learn more about Dr Fowler's Phase 1 safety trial of IV vitamin C in patients with severe sepsis. * Watch Professor Margreet Vissers' lecture on her work on vitamin C.

Episode Highlights [04:40] How Dr Carr’s Research on Vitamin C Started * Dr Carr’s research began in 1998, where she studied how reactive oxygen species (ROS) produced by white blood cells react with our tissues. * White blood cells produce ROS to help kill bacteria. However, they can also react with the tissues and create inflammation. * Dr Carr then began investigating how vitamin C’s antioxidant properties help decrease inflammation. * She also studied the benefits of vitamin C in preventing atherosclerotic plaques and the development of cardiovascular diseases (CVD).

[09:42] Vitamin C as an Antioxidant * Vitamin C has real antioxidant properties. * Metal ions produce oxidants in the body; vitamin C donates electrons to these ions, converting them to the reduced state. * The recommended daily dose to benefit from the antioxidant potential of vitamin C is 60 to 90 milligrammes in men and 75 milligrammes in women. * You need a higher dose (120 milligrammes) of the vitamin to protect yourself from CVD and cancer.

[17:57] Vitamin C in Food vs. Vitamin C Tablet * Dr Carr conducted a comparative dosing study between kiwi fruit and vitamin C tablets. * She found no difference in the vitamin C obtained from food and tablets. The body recognises the same molecule and takes up the same amount.

[21:36] Vitamin C in Sepsis and Pneumonia * Patients with pneumonia can develop sepsis, resulting in multi-organ failure, septic shock and, eventually, death. * In observational studies in patients with pneumonia, Dr Carr found that the lower the vitamin C levels, the higher the oxidative stress. * The body's requirement for vitamin C goes up by at least 30-fold when you get pneumonia and sepsis; it is hard to get those amounts orally. * ICU patients need a vitamin C dose of 100 milligrammes per day. * In these patients, the actual levels of vitamin C measured in the blood is lower compared to the amount they are receiving.

[25:25] Why Is Vitamin C Testing Not a Protocol in Hospitals? * Doctors are not familiar with the importance, recent research and mode of action of vitamin C because it is not taught in medical schools. * The hospital system is not set up to routinely measure vitamin C. * In trials, vitamin C is treated as a drug rather than a vitamin. * We need to know how vitamin C works to create proper and adequate study designs.

[32:27] What Are Some of the Future Vitamin C Studies We Can Conduct? * We need studies about the frequency, dosing and timing of its administration. * We need to learn about the finer details of the vitamin rather than doing the same study designs. * It is tough to obtain research funding due to the misinformation surrounding vitamin C. * We also need to educate doctors and patients alike about the science behind vitamin C.

[43:16] Vitamin C as a Cofactor * Our cells rely on enzymes to carry out chemical reactions. A cofactor helps enzyme function. * Vitamin C functions as a cofactor for the enzyme that synthesises noradrenaline and vasopressin. These hormones help in blood pressure regulation. * It’s better to give ICU patients vitamin C than giving them vasopressin drugs. This allows the body to naturally produce the hormone, preventing the side effects of getting vasopressin externally. * Vitamin C is also a cofactor of collagen, which plays a role in stopping cancer metastasis and wound healing.

[54:30] Vitamin C in Epigenetics * The expression of DNA may be regulated by adding or removing methyl groups. * Vitamin C is a cofactor for enzymes that modify DNA methylation. * It controls the switching on and off of genes, playing a possible role in personalised medicine.

7 Powerful Quotes from This EpisodeI’m much more interested in the whole person and how they're feeling, not what's happening inside a single cell’.

Don't wait until they're at death's door and at septic shock. It's hard for a vitamin to do something at this stage, even a really high-dose vitamin’.

A lot of these studies were designed to reproduce the first studies that came out to see if they could reproduce it also. That's why they’re using similar regimes. But now that we know more about it, each study adds another piece to the puzzle’.

There’s bigger issues at play with the whole pharmacological model that our whole system is built upon, and that nutrients and nutrition isn't taught in medical school. So, we're up against this big sort of brick wall’.

People go into a hospital setting or something, and they expect to have the latest and greatest information available, that the doctors know all that. And unfortunately, that's not always the case’.

Every person's life that is saved is a family that's not grieving’.

It’s the reason I’m doing this podcast, and it's the reason you're doing your research. And hopefully together and with many others, we can move the story along so that people get helped’.

About Dr Anitra Dr Anitra Carr holds a PhD in Clinical Biochemistry/Pathology. She started researching vitamin C when she undertook a postdoctoral research position at the Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, USA, and was also awarded an American Heart Association Postdoctoral Fellowship. Dr Carr produced a number of high-impact publications in the field of vitamin C in human health and disease.

Dr Carr is currently a Research Associate Professor at the University of Otago, Christchurch, School of Medicine. She has established her own research group, the Nutrition in Medicine Research Group, and undertakes translational bench-to-bedside research comprising observational studies and clinical trials on the role of oral and intravenous vitamin C in infection, cancer, metabolic health, mood and cognitive health.

Dr Carr endeavours to understand the underlying biochemical mechanisms of action as well as improve patient outcomes and quality of life. She also pursues various ways to improve clinician and general public understanding of the roles of vitamin C in human health and disease.

You may contact Dr Carr through anitra.carr@otago.ac.nz or call +64 3 364 0649.

Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!

Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the benefits of vitamin C in sepsis and pneumonia.

Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.

For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.

To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Full Transcript Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to the show! This week, I have another fantastic interview with another amazing scientist. But before we get there, I just want to remind you please give a rating and review to the show if you're enjoying the content and share it with your family and friends. I really appreciate that.

And if you haven't already grabbed a copy of my book Relentless, make sure you do, you won't regret it. It's an incredible story that is really about taking control of your own health and being responsible for your own health and thinking outside the box. And it's the story of bringing my mum back to health after a mess of aneurysm. And it will really make you think about those—the way our medical system works and about why you need to be proactive when it comes to health and prevention, preventative health. And it's really just a heart-warming story as well. So, you can grab that on my website at lisatamati.com. Or you can go to any bookshop in New Zealand and order that or get that and it's available also on audiobook for those people who love to listen to books rather than reading them, I know, I certainly do a lot of that.

And just to also remind that if you have any questions around some of the topics that we've discussed on the podcast episodes, please reach out to me lisa@lisatamati.com. And if you want help with one of your health journeys or your performance journeys, or you want to work on some goal setting, on some mindset, please reach out there as well. We'd love to work with you.

So today I have the Dr Anitra Carr, who is a scientist at Otago University. She's currently a research associate professor at the University of Otago, Christchurch School of Medicine. She's established her own research group, the Nutrition in Medicine Research Group and undertakes translational bench to bedside research comprising observational studies and clinical trials on the role of oral and intravenous vitamin C in infection, cancer, metabolic health, mood, cognitive health.

And she endeavours to understand the underlying biochemical mechanisms of action as well as improve our patient outcomes. So, she's a person who loves to actually not just be in the lab and looking at petri dishes, but to actually help people in human intervention study. She currently has a study underway, which I'm really, really excited and waiting with bated breath to see what comes out. It’s a sepsis study, in the Christchurch hospital with 40 patients. And we talk a little bit about that today.

And we talk about the role of vitamin C today. Continuing the conversations that we've had with some of the world's best vitamin C researchers. We're looking at the antioxidant properties, we're looking at the pro-oxidant properties, we're looking at vitamin C as a cofactor in so many different mechanisms in the body. We talking about its role in the production of adrenaline and vasopressin, in hypoxia inducible factors, in relation to cancer, and especially in relation to sepsis, which is obviously a very important one for me.

One in five ICU patients in New Zealand dies of sepsis. This is a massive problem. Worldwide, between 30 and 50 million people a year get sepsis. This is something that you really need to know about. You need to understand it and Dr Anitra Carr, also shares why you may not get a doctor in a hospital situation, actually understanding all the information that we're going to be sharing with you today. So, educate yourself, learn from this and enjoy the show with Dr Anitra Carr.

Lisa: Well, hi, everybody. And welcome back to the show. Today I have Dr Anitra Carr, and today we're continuing the series around vitamin C. We've had some brilliant doctors and scientists on in the last few weeks and it's been really exciting to share some of the latest research and we have one of our own Kiwi scientists with us today, Dr Anitra Carr from Christchurch. Welcome to the show.

Dr Anitra Carr: Hi, Lisa!

Lisa: It's fantastic to have you. So, Dr Anitra, can you just tell us a little bit of your background and how you got involved with vitamin C research?

Dr Anitra: Well, I first started researching back in the late 90s. So, 1998 and I had just finished a PhD with the University of Otago and I had been studying how reactive oxygen species that are produced by white blood cells react with our own tissues, damage their own tissues because these white blood cells produce these really reactive oxidants, such as hydrogen peroxide, which is hair bleach, and hypochlorous acid, which is household bleach. So very strong oxidants and they produce these to help kill bacteria in our bodies. But these oxidants can also react with their own tissues and that's what contributes to inflammation and the processes of inflammation.

And so, I've just been studying how these oxidants react to certain components in our tissues. And when I finished that, I thought it’d be really interesting to investigate how antioxidants, such as vitamin C, which is one of the most potent antioxidants in our body, and help potentially protect against this damage. So, scavenge those oxidants before they react with our tissues, and help decrease the inflammation associated with them and features and conditions.

And so, I applied to various people in the United States, I wanted to go to continue my research in the United States. And so I applied to several people over there who are doing research in the area that I was interested in, and they'll write back and say, ‘Yes, we have postdoctoral positions available.’ And so I selected one, on the advice of my PhD supervisor, and this was Professor Balz Frei. He was at the time in Boston. And after I said, ‘Yes, I'd like to work with him.’ He wrote back and said, ‘Oh, by the way, I'm moving to the west coast to Oregon. And I'm going to be the director, the new director of the Linus Pauling Institute.’

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr Anitra: Great opportunity it is. I like the West Coast of the United States. I've done a bit of work in California during my PhD. And so, I was quite happy with it. And so Linus Pauling had died just a few years prior to that. And so, the Linus Pauling Institute, which was in California, at the time, kind of needed a new home, I think they're in Palo Alto.

And so they ended up going to Oregon State University because that was—for a couple of reasons—that was Linus Pauling alma mater. So, he had done his undergraduate research when he was in a cultural college. And also, because the library there was going to be able to host his papers. And so he has this collection of his writings and papers, thousands and thousands of documents, because as you've stated before, he's one of the only people to have been awarded two unshared Nobel prizes. So one was in chemistry around his work on the nature of the chemical bond. And the other one was a Peace Prize for his anti-nuclear campaign.

And so the Oregon State University Library has his complete collection, it's called the Linus Pauling Special Collection. And so I spent a few years at Oregon State University researching how vitamin C can protect against oxidation of low density lipoprotein particles, which are what the body uses to export fat and cholesterol around the body, because the cells need cholesterol. But most people know low density lipoprotein protein as bad cholesterol. I mean, it's not intrinsically bad. But if it becomes oxidized, it can contribute to the development of atherosclerotic plaques and contribute to cardiovascular disease. And so I was looking at how vitamin C can protect against oxidation of this particle, and thereby potentially peak against development of atherosclerosis. And I was...

Lisa: What was the outcome of it? That would be really interesting.

Dr Anitra: Yes. So, I was particularly interested in the oxidants produced by white blood cells, because these can react with these low density lipoprotein particles and oxidized them. And vitamin C is a great scavenger in particular, and I was interested in how much do you need and how the particulars—is the real biochemical level?

And, but also during this time, so late 1990s. We were interested—Professor Balz Frei was interested in the recommended dietary intakes for vitamin C. Because in a lot of countries they are very low—these recommendations, primarily to prevent deficiency diseases, such as scurvy. Whereas, we believe you know, that the recommendations should be high to help reduce the risk of chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease and cancer and that sort of thing. That's a bit helpful to the outcome.

So, in the late 90s, in 1998, the Food and Nutrition board of the Institutes of Medicine was re-examining the recommended dietary intake for the antioxidant vitamins, the A, C, and E in the United States. And we write a comprehensive review around all the scientific evidence at the time for what sort of doses of vitamin C appear to protect against cardiovascular disease and cancer. And so, we made a recommendation of 120 milligrams a day, which was, at that time twice what the recommended dietary intake in the States, it was 60 milligrams a day at the time. And so we submitted that document, and it was considered by the Food and Nutrition Board. And also another review, I'd written around vitamin C's antioxidant roles in the body versus its pro-oxidant roles. Vitamin C, referred to as pro-oxidant.

Lisa: Yes, I’ve heard that. To get hit around the antioxidant and as a pro-oxidant.

Dr Anitra: Vitamin C is an antioxidant. It's not a not oxidant, pro-oxidant. But what it does is it can reduce—so antioxidants donate electrons, and they reduce oxidized compounds. So, it reduces transition metal ions such as copper and iron. So, these are metals in our body that can read off cycles so they can produce oxidants.

Lisa: Yes, and we've talked about redox before in the podcast.

Dr Anitra: Yes, so what vitamin C does is it converts these metal ions into a reduced state and metal ions can go on and generate oxidants.

Lisa: So it gives ion and copper a longer life, does it? It sort of gives them—ion and copper away to keep going?

Dr Anitra: Regenerates them so that these metal ions can keep producing oxidants. But in our body, these metal ions are all sequestered away and protected by proteins, they're not floating around free. In the body, vitamin C doesn't seem to do that, based on the evidence, it seems to just have it’s true antioxidant roles, not this kind of prooxidant by-product, as you might call it.

So, this sort of evidence was considered by the Food and Nutrition Board and they decided, ‘Yes, it does have an antioxidant role in the body.’ And, and so they also referred to Mark Levine's seminal work to kind of work out a dose, a daily dose of vitamin C, they thought would be good to help foster this antioxidant potential on the body—potentially protect against these other chronic long-term diseases such as cardiovascular disease and cancer.

And so they did end up increasing the RDA for vitamin C instead from 50 to 90 milligrams a day for men, and 75 milligrams a day for women. So that was good, not quite as high as we would have liked to see, but still a step in the right direction.

Lisa: A very conservative, aren’t they? They are slow to respond and conservative? Because you think like being the preventative space would be a good thing, if we're trying to...

Dr Anitra: It is. Prevention is a lot cheaper, a lot easier to prevent a disease.

Lisa: Exactly. But I think New Zealand's even worse, isn't it? I think we're at 45 milligrams, which is I think it is.

Dr Anitra: One of the lowest in the world, yes.

Lisa: That’s got to change, sorry.

Dr Anitra: So we're trying to generate the evidence to help support them increase in RDA.

Lisa: Gosh, so it's also slow, like you've been doing this for what? 20-like years. And still...

Dr Anitra: They do say that translation of science into medical research into clinical practice takes 15 to 20 years.

Lisa: Wow, that is a really interesting statement. Because this is why I think, like sharing the sort of information direct from the experts, if you like, and I sit this was Professor Margreet Vissers too, that we have to make sort of educated decisions as people in trouble now. Whether you've got cancer or whether like my case who have a dad who had sepsis, you have to make an educated decision now based on you're running out of time. And we're waiting for the research and the research will be great, but it will be another 10 to 20 years down the line before it actually…

And then in the medical world, it seems to be a very slow—Doctor Fowler said that beautifully when I had him on last week. It's like trying to shift a supertanker, Critical Care he was referring to is very, very slowly coming around. And I had Dr Ron Hunninghake on as well from the Riordan Institute, another fantastic doctor, and he talked about Medical Mavericks. Dr Hugh Riordan had written three books on people who were really ahead of their time, got in trouble for it and then actually the research and everything caught up with them later.

So that's interesting. So, if you’re listening to this, New Zealand has got 45 milligrams as the RDA, that's just to keep you out of scurvy. Right?

So, okay, so you've done all this antioxidant research and this with RSS and at the Linus Pauling Institute, when did you start to develop an interest in the infectious diseases, sepsis side of that, because I'd really love to...

Dr Anitra: Yes, that's, that's more recent. So, after a few years—three years at the Institute, I decided to have our first child and move back to New Zealand. And I made the decision to quit science and just focus on bringing up our family, ended up having three children. Stayed home for nine years looking out after our children. And I made the decision that they were more important than my career

Lisa: Wonderful. That's an interesting fact, as well as a mom and a scientist, like, an incredibly dedicated career that you'd have spent years getting there and then trying to juggle mum roles with scientist roles, and taking nine years out of your career. Has that hurt your career massively? Or I would have catch up so to speak?

Dr Anitra: It hasn't hurt my career. I mean, I'm 10 years behind my contemporaries, my colleagues because I took that time out. But that's the decision I made. And I stand by it because the first three years of a child's life are very important. So I thought I'll dedicate myself to the children in the early years. And after those nine years, right? I've done my time and really can’t get back to work.

Lisa: Mum's going to be a working mum from now on.

Dr Anitra: But I just went back to work part time, so, within school hours, so that I'll still be there for them after school hours. And one of the things that drew me back to work—I was recruited back to run a human intervention study. What really excited me because when I was in the lab doing lead-based research, I always felt too removed from the need to be helping. And so I’m much more interested in the whole person and how they're feeling, not what's happening inside a single cell.

Lisa: Yes. Yes, it makes sense.

Dr Anitra: I was really excited and really grateful to be recruited back, especially after taking nine years out for my... Discoveries have been made during that time that I had no idea until I went back and I've got a bit of catching up to do. And...

Lisa: So what was that first intervention study, that human...

Dr Anitra: This was a kiwi fruit study. So kiwi fruit is very high in vitamin C. In summary, we're interested in how many kiwi fruit do you need to eat to get adequate and optimal vitamin C level. So it's just kind of a dosing study?

Lisa: Brilliant.

Dr Anitra: Then we went on to compare kiwi fruit with tablets. So, animal research had shown our food sources of Vitamin C seemed to be a bit better than tablet sources. And so we would—we thought we'd translate that into a human study. And what we found is there's no difference

Lisa: There's no difference. Uptake of vitamin C from food versus tablets, the body is really good at it. Because we need vitamin C, our body has adapted ways to...

Lisa: Take it wherever it gets it.

Dr Anitra: Take it up, regardless of the source.

Lisa: Wow, that's...

Dr Anitra: The structure of vitamin C's the same in foods as it is in tablets. So the body recognizes it the same, takes up the same amounts. I mean, the benefit of food is that you're also getting all the other vitamins and minerals and fibre. So, we still recommend food. But it is in our daily diets these days, it's very hard to get 200 milligrams a day of vitamin C.

Lisa: Just fruits and veggies. Yes.

Dr Anitra: That’s just fruit and vegetables. And as you know, different fruits and vegetables have quite different amounts of vitamin C, which a lot of people aren't aware of.

Lisa: No. No.

Dr Anitra: I mean, people know that kiwi fruit and citrus are high, but they may not realize that apples and bananas are actually quite low in vitamin C.

Lisa: Or capsicums are quite high… You wouldn’t think that broccoli… And if you decide to take a supplement, is there a bit of supplement? Like, I have heard concerns about corn-derived vitamin C because of the glyphosate discussion, and that’s a bit hard to track really, the types of vitamin C. But is there any sort of research around—I mean, I've talked previously with a couple of doctors and scientists around liposomal delivery. Have you seen anything in that department or any supplementation method that's better?

Dr Anitra: Not convincingly better. I mean, there might be trials that show that’s slightly better than just your normal chewable vitamin C. But I just go for the standard, cheap vitamin.

Lisa: Yes, doesn't have to be super special. Like it's a pretty simple molecule, isn't it? Like, the body is pretty, like you say, it needs it, it knows it.

Dr Anitra: Liposomal vitamin C kind of wrapped up in lipids, and the body doesn't need it because like you said it’s designed to recognize vitamin C in its natural form, in foods and such like.

Lisa: Yes—who was that? I think Dr Thomas Levy was saying it bypasses some of the digestive issues because with vitamin C, you can get digestive stress when you take a bigger...

Dr Anitra: When you take a higher dose. Some people, we're talking about more than four grams a day, and some people can get stress, it does but you can use that.

Lisa: Okay. So then you've moved into—and forgive me for jumping here—but very keen to talk about the role of sepsis and pneumonia and patients in ICU reasons

Dr Anitra: So, after about five years of doing that research part time, I managed to get at Health Research Council, such as speakers Health Research Fellowship, which allowed me to move into the more clinical arena of studying infection, which was an area I was interested in.

And done some observational studies where we have recruited patients who have pneumonia, measured the vitamin C levels, and levels of oxidative stress. And found that they have very low levels of vitamin C and high levels of oxidative stress. And the more severe the condition, the worse it is, the lower the vitamin C levels, and the higher the oxidative stress.

So, if those patients with pneumonia are going to develop sepsis, and sepsis is kind of this uncontrolled inflammatory response to a severe infection. And that can develop into multi organ failure and the patient’s taken to the intensive care unit. And it can go on further to develop into septic shock due to failure of the cardiovascular system. And up to half those patients die, it’s the major cause of death in critically ill patients.

Lisa: Yes. And that's what I unfortunately experienced with my dad. And so, with the organs are starting to break down. So, when you get anything like pneumonia or sepsis, the body's requirement just goes up, a hundred-fold or more.

Dr Anitra: Yes, at least 30-fold. Yes. So, it's very hard to get those amounts into a patient orally. And so, when the patients are in the intensive care unit, they're generally sedated because they're being mechanically ventilated. And so, they're given nutrition in two different ways because they can't eat. And so, the main way is to drip feed it directly into the stomach, liquid nutrition in the stomach through nasal gastric tube. The other way is to inject it directly into the bloodstream. And so, the recommended amounts of vitamin C by these means is about 100 milligrams a day.

Lisa: That’s nothing.

Dr Anitra: But what we did on one of our studies was we looked at how much vitamin C these patients should theoretically have in their blood based on how much vitamin C they're consuming. Because 100 milligrams a day in a healthy person is more than adequate to—provides adequate plasma, what we would consider adequate plasma levels. And so, we mapped out what it would look like in these patients based on how much they were getting. And then we compared it with what we actually measured in their blood, it’s way lower than what theoretically should have been. And so, this, this was an indication that you still need a lot more vitamin C than they're getting in the standard liquid nutrition. And that the body also has these much higher requirements, which has been shown previously by other researchers.

Lisa: And so this leading to almost a scurvy-like situation. I mean, some of these severe sepsis people—I mean, seeing one of your [unintelligible 24:53] that sort of normal community cohort of people, young people, middle aged people, and then down into the more severe pneumonia and then sepsis, and severe sepsis. And they are just over the scurvy level. So basically, their bodies are falling apart because of that, as well as the sepsis if you like. and it's...

Dr Anitra: And that’s even on top of being given a day of at least 100 milligrams a day, that's still really low.

Lisa: That's just not touching the sides.

Dr Anitra: Yes and...

Lisa: Why is this not like—for people going into the hospital, why is it that even though—okay, we may not know the dosages, why is not every hospital testing at least the really sick patients, what their vitamin C levels are, and then treating it the nutrient deficiency only? Even apart from the high dose intravenous stuff, but just actually—with my dad, I was unable to get a vitamin C test done to prove my case. I couldn't prove my case because I couldn't get it tested.

Dr Anitra: Yes, no, it's so true. It's because doctors don't learn about nutrients in medical school, it’s not part of their training.

Lisa: At all, yes.

Dr Anitra: So they're not familiar with how important they are for the body. They're not familiar with all the recent research around all the different functions and mechanisms of action that vitamin C carries out. Over the last 10 years, all these brand-new mechanisms and functions have been discovered, and they think we know everything there is to know about it.

Lisa: Yes, and we don't.

Dr Anitra: [unintelligible 26:34] the time. It’s basically exciting.

Lisa: Yes, it is.

Dr Anitra: So basically, they don't understand. The hospital system isn't set up to routinely measure it. It is only ever measured if scurvy—if someone comes in with suspected scurvy. And even then, a lot of doctors aren't used to recognizing the symptoms of scurvy. It's not something they're familiar with because it doesn’t...

Lisa: They think it no longer exists because it’s what sailors had in the 1800s.

Dr Anitra: ...the parents and the wisdom.

Lisa: It’s basically in the sick population.

Dr Anitra: It is. But I think... So when I first applied for funding to carry out these studies, in pneumonia and sepsis, there were only a couple of papers have been published at that time looking at vitamin C sepsis, and that was Berry Fowler's safety dosing study.

Lisa: That is phase one trial.

Dr Anitra: And another one, small one in Iran. So, there was very, very little information out there at the time. And so, I put in an application for us to carry out an intervention study in our ICU at Christchurch. So just a small one, 40 people—20 placebo control of vitamin C and 20 getting intravenous vitamin C.

And not long after that, Paul Marik's study came out and that stimulated real explosion and research in this field because of the media interest. So the media picked up on it. And it hit the world. I've been talking about this for years to doctors. I see doctors and they're trying to get to talk about it. But it wasn't until it hit the media, and they heard about it through the media, they thought, ‘Okay, maybe there's something here.’ So that just goes to show how important media can be.

Lisa: Exactly why we're doing the show. I have not seen it. But you know what I mean? We've got to get this from the ground up moving.

Dr Anitra: Yes. And so since then, there's been many studies carried out around the world, all of different quality. And so we're learning more and more information, real-time clinical trials, they take a long time to run. Recruitment being the most difficult part.

The other thing is that, a lot of the clinical trials, the clinical researches are used to running drug trials and so they treat vitamin C like a drug, but it's not a drug. It's a nutrient, it’s a vitamin, that the body is specially designed to take up and use very different from drugs. And so they don't always understand how vitamin C works in the body.

And it's important to know how it's working in order to design good studies, good quality studies. So a lot of the data that's come out may be impacted by how well the study was done and thought out. So we still don't know all the important essays about the dose, how often should you give it, when should you give it? I mean, ideally it should be given you know, as early as possible.

Lisa: Early as possible.

Dr Anitra: Don't wait until they're at death's door and septic shock. It's hard for vitamin C to do something at that stage even really high, even a really high dose vitamin. The earlier that you give it, the longer you can get it for digest. Most of these trials have given it for four days and they stop.

Lisa: Yes, I've wondered that.

Dr Anitra: The whole time, they're in the ICU because once pharmacokinetic study showed that when you stop that vitamin C, some of those patients just drop straight back down to where they were. Now they need to keep that continued input.

Lisa: So why? Why has it been made that it's only—all of those I've seen, I think have been 4-day, 96 hour studies. And occasionally one of them is or for the latest day in ICU, but most of them have been 96 hours and most of them have been very, very conservative dosing. From what I understand conservative dosing. And I know Dr Berry Fowler said where there's some consideration about oxalate in kidney function. And I'm like, ‘Yes, but this is still a very low risk for somebody who's got sepsis.’

Dr Anitra: If a patient has kidney dysfunction in ICU they put them on haemodialysis anyway, so which clears that excess vitamin C. So it's not such an issue for those patients. But yes, a lot of these studies were designed to reproduce the first studies that came out to see if they are reproducible. so, that's why they’re using similar regimes. But now that we know more about it, each study adds another piece to the puzzle. And so hopefully, future studies will look more into what dose we actually need and it only varies depending on the...

Lisa: The severity

Dr Anitra: Severity, etc. How long? And I believe, once they leave the ICU... So patients who survived sepsis, they can go on to have real problems, physical disabilities, cognitive issues, psychological issues, like depression, anxiety. And so, I really believe they keep taking vitamin C when they leave the hospital just orally, that might help with those conditions that hasn't been researched yet. That's a whole area of research that should be carried out to.

Lisa: So, if I was to ask you, in your dream world where your resources are unlimited, and you had lots of money, and you had lots of people to help you do all these and you have enough patience to enrol. What are some other things that you would like as a scientist and you understand some of the mechanisms and the cofactors—which I want to get on to as well—what are some of the studies that you would like to see happen? So, we can move this along faster. What are some of the key things? So, quality of life afterwards? Yes, like dosages, what?

Dr Anitra: Really practical things that the doctors need to know, I think, what's important, like, how much to give, how often to give it? Most of the studies are done four times a day because that's what was done in the initial studies. Is it better to give it continuously? So, when they're in the ICU, can you just use drugs continuously, rather than this kind of bolus dosing? So, do more research around that.

So the frequency and dosing and timing like when do you administer it, how long should you administer it for? I mean, there's so many important aspects around that. And we've got the foundational research done now, we can start teasing out the finer details now, I think. Rather than just doing the same study designs over and over again,

Lisa: Yes and reproducing.

Dr Anitra: Modify their study designs to start addressing these other issues. And there's some really big studies underway at the moment. One in Canada with 800 people. I mean, they'll give us really good information, those sorts of studies, rather than the little studies. Unless you live in small countries.

Lisa: Small countries that can’t afford those things that cost millions and millions of dollars. And is there a trouble with funding because it's not a drug that we're developing here? Does it make it harder to get funding?

Dr Anitra: It's extremely hard to get funding because often on the CSUN committee, it's often medical people on these who don't believe in vitamin C. The bad press or the misinformation don't understand the importance, the relevance and so, that's why this outreach is really important. It's just educating people about the science behind it. It's not hocus pocus.

Lisa: Yes, I mean, if I can share—I mean, I've shared a little bit on the past episodes with my case with my dad. I know and I felt they just put me in that, wackery quackery caught and they paid lip service to listening to me. They didn't really and but I’m quite—well in this case, I had to be quite forceful because my dad was dying. And I didn't go away, most people would go away because—and I just wish I knew then what I know now even because I wasn't that deep into the research. And now I am deep into the research and really an advocate for this.

But I was treated like—there was one really good doctor who listened to me, who advocated, he didn't believe in it, he didn't understand the mechanisms of action or any of that sciency stuff. But he did advocate for me at the ethics committee, whereas everyone else would just roll their eyes basically.

And this is why I think it's so important to share this, to come back again and again to the science for science for science, and for them to just open up their eyes just because they didn't learn it in medical school. And it's not in the current textbook for, like you say, because it takes 20 years probably to get it to the textbook. Because it's a vitamin, they just immediately shut down, it’s how I felt. They just immediately, ‘Well, just eat an orange and you're good to go.’

I mean, the surgeon—I had a friend that was going into surgery, and she was like, ‘Should I have intravenous vitamin C, before I go into surgery to prepare my body?’ Very logical thing to do in my eyes. It’s like, ‘You don’t need that, just eat an orange,’ and it's like, ‘Oh, you don't get the whole why and how, and what happens when the body goes through a trauma and a surgery, or a sepsis or any of these things.’And I don't know, like there's a bigger issue at play with the whole pharmacological model that our whole system is built upon. And that nutrients and nutrition isn't taught in medical school. So we're up against this big sort of brick wall.

And when I tell my story to people just, sharing with friends and things, they’ll be going, ‘But where's the downside? He was dying anyway, why couldn't he have it?’ And I said, ‘Well, you're up against machinery, you're up against ethics committees, legal battles, and a system that is just very staid and conservative in its approach.’

And that's not to criticize individual people within the system. I'm not wanting to do that. I'm just trying to make people aware because people go into a hospital setting or something, and they expect to have the latest and greatest information available that the doctors know all that. And unfortunately, that's not always the case. Do you find that frustrating?

Dr Anitra: I mean, it's not the doctors’ fault as such, because they're very busy people, they don't have time to keep up with all the literature, and they're not likely to be going into the nutrition literature in the first place. Which is why we try and publish as much of that stuff and the clinical literature, they're more likely to see it then.

And they have the patient's best interests at heart. They've just heard the bad things about vitamin C and the misinformation. And so they don't want to do harm to the patient, I guess. It’s the view that they’re coming from and they don't have time to read all the latest information. And that's why just piece by piece, chip away at theirs, and educate them and hopefully it'll come into the training of the new doctors. And future hopefully, more nutrition courses will be introduced into training because it's not just vitamin C.

The body needs all the vitamins that are all vital to life. That's where the name comes from. You don't hit them, you die. It's as simple as that. So, yes, I think that it is vital that this information gets into the appropriate arenas.

Lisa: Yes. And I think that's why I'm passionate about the show is that my sort of outlook on the whole thing is, ‘Yes, I'm not a doctor, but I can give voice to doctors and researchers. And I can curate and I can investigate and I can share.’ And this is a very emotional topic for me or for obvious reasons, but I'm trying to take the emotion out of it because that doesn't help the discussion.

And it’s really hard but I understand the importance—because I know that if I share things in an emotional manner, then I'll get shut down as having mental health problems in a group being a grieving daughter. When actually I’m an intelligent person who's educated herself in this. I've got the best people, and the best researchers, and the best scientists, and the best doctors sharing the latest research. And I hope that by doing that you can get one mind after the other and just get them to understand rather than the emotional side of things. Because what I do want to also share with the story is that every person's life that is saved is a family that's not grieving. These are not statistics.

When Dr Berry Fowler's research, with Dr Merricks research and you see a drop from, I think Dr Merricks was 40%, mortality to 8% and Dr Berry’s was something like 49, down to 29. Don't quote me on the numbers, but big numbers in drops and mortality. And you go, those are just dozens, if not hundreds of lives that are saved. And those families are saved from that grief.

And worldwide, I've heard a couple of estimates between 30 and 50 million people a year who get sepsis. Of those, one in five—I've heard in your research—one in five in New Zealand ICU dies of sepsis. This is a huge problem. This is as big as cancer and actually is one of the complications often of cancer therapies. So, I don't think people understand the enormity of sepsis itself. And then pneumonia, and then we can go into the discussion of COVID, and cancer, and all those other things. It's like we're talking millions of lives every year around the world. So this research is just absolutely crucial. Sorry, I've gotten on my bandwagon a little bit. But I really want to get this information out there. And that I think it's really, really important.

And let’s change track a little bit and just talk a little bit briefly because I haven't covered this subject with the other vitamin C interviews that I've done. Around the cofactor, so vitamin C is a cofactor for so many different areas. So I remember from one of your lectures, it has epigenetic influences and hairs like with collagen synthesis, and that's not just for your skin and your and your nails, but also has implications for cancer. You've got your health, which Professor Margreet Vissers talked about your hypoxia inducible factor, tumor growth.

Can you just go and give me a little bit of information around—the vasopressin one would be very good and anything else that pops to mind there.

Dr Anitra: Yes, so the cofactor is a compound that helps enzyme function. So everything in our cells relies on the functions of enzymes to carry out reactions in ourselves or the chemical reactions require enzymes. And so a cofactor supports that function.

And so early on when I was just starting in this area of research in the field of sepsis, I was looking at the different cofactor functions of vitamin C, and one of them is a cofactor for the enzyme which synthesizes noradrenaline. And noradrenaline is one of the main drugs, as you might say, that's given to patients who are going into septic shock. So it's given to the patients to try and increase the blood pressure. And it works by making the muscles around the blood vessels contract. Makes the blood vessels a bit smaller, so it increases your blood pressure.

And so vitamin C is a cofactor for the enzyme that naturally synthesizes noradrenaline in our body. And there's another enzyme which synthesizes hormones, one of which is vasopressin. And this is another drug that's also sometimes given to these patients to help your blood pressure. And it works by increasing the re-uptake of water by the kidney. So, that increases your blood volume and hence, your blood pressure. So, for a lot of ICU patients, they're given noradrenaline and sometimes they're given vasopressin on top of that. Really try and get the blood pressure up.

Lisa: Yes, their collapsing cardiovascular system.

Dr Anitra: And I realized, ‘Oh wait a minute vitamin C is also cofactor for this enzyme that synthesizes vasopressin.’ So here it is, a cofactor for two quite different enzymes that synthesize vasopressors naturally in our body. And so, if these patients are coming into the ICU, very low in vitamin C, and going into shock, is one of those reasons because they don't have enough vitamin C in the body to support natural vasopressor function. The doctors have to give them these drugs but if we're able to get them vitamin C, early enough that it can potentially support their own natural synthesis of these vasopressors in the body, which is a much better way to do it. Because if drugs are given from the outside, they're often given in high doses and not regulated, and so can cause side effects. There is a difference being produced in the body, the body knows what it's doing. It regulates how much and how often, all those sort of 46:07 engineering emails and so you don't get the nasty side effects.

Lisa: Can I share a bit of a story there? Because both my mom and her case was—she had an aneurysm four years ago, she was on noradrenaline, and could only be given in an ICU. And originally she was in the neurological ward. And they couldn't do it there. And I only realized like she was going into a coma. So she had massive brain damage going into a coma. That when they took her up to ICU, they could give her the noradrenaline that opened up that the vessels in the heat it a little bit, or keep the pressure up, so that the vessels were open to stop the vasospasm in her case, which was killing parts of the brain. But she'd been in the neurological ward where they couldn't give any of that earlier. And so the damage had already been done partly.

And then with the case with my dad, back then I didn't know anything about vitamin C, of course. With the case with my dad in July, this year, I got vitamin C, but it was on day 13 of his 15-day battle, because I had paid to go through ethics committees and all of that sort of jazz. So he was an absolute death's doorstep, should have been dead days ago, according to the doctors. They couldn't believe he was still going but he was one tough man. I don’t know how he was still alive but he was. And the very first infusion that we got a vitamin C, immediately we were able to take him off norad for a period of about eight hours. We needed the vitamin C again, that took me another 18 hours before I could get permission to get the second one. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it in the six-hour bolus, which was ideal.

We gave him initially 15 grams. So this was again, multiple organ failure, fecal matter, and the creatinine, desperate, desperate, desperate straits. His CRP, c-reactive protein dropped from 246 down to 115. His white blood cell count improved and his kidney function went from 27% to 33%. And I was able to take him on vasopressors and noradrenaline for about eight hours. That is incredible for someone who could die at any moment. And we eventually—we failed because I struggled to get the second and I struggled to get the third infusion and it really was too late.

But even at that point, I thought it might be interesting for your research—I have all the medical records by the way, if you want to have a look at the data exactly. But it really was a strong—he doesn't need the noradrenaline, his blood pressure was going up. And that was a really, really good sign. As the dropping of the CRP, which was still very high at 115 but it was way better than where it had been.

So goodness, what would have happened if I'd had him on day one from the surgery? Yes. And, and none of it is understood. So that's one of the cofactors that… And that brings to mind just as someone who's connecting the dots, if you have an HPA axis problem, like your adrenals aren't doing the job well. And your cortisol, vitamin C would probably be a good thing to take to support.

Dr Anitra: And sometimes it’s referred to as a stress hormone because it is involved in the adrenal response. And people who are under stress, or in animal studies who have stress animals they appear, they use more vitamin C, and they generate more vitamin C, the animals they can synthesize it themselves, they generate more vitamin C to compensate for that. We are not there anymore. So we have to take more if we're under stressful conditions.

Lisa: Exactly. And that's a really—it's just a funny thing of evolution that we've lost the ability to synthesize more as we like animals, like the goat, especially it can synthesize like a ton more when it needs that. We will give them big brains so that we can make vitamin C so we can take it.

What are some of the other cofactors? Just as we start to wrap it up, but just a couple of the other important cofactors. And collagen? Why is collagen important apart from you want my skin and hair, and your joints? Well, I did hear in one of the lectures about collagen helping stop metastasis of cancers?

Dr Anitra: Right, yes, that's one mechanism. It's also very important in wound healing. And, interestingly, a lot of—a reasonable number of surgeons are aware of this and that they're a lot more open to people taking vitamin C around surgery before and after surgery just to help affect wound healing.

Lisa: Oh, wow. Yes.

Dr Anitra: Which is great. And

Lisa: And oncologists, are they sort of open to...

Dr Anitra: Least so

Lisa: Least so. Yes. In fact, I've had friends who have told us, if you take intravenous vitamin C, we won't do any treatments. And this is...

Dr Anitra: And that is primarily around all the misunderstanding around those early, early trials around intravenous. What I'm seeing is when Linus Pauling showed a feat of vital intravenous vitamin C. The clinicians at the Mayo Clinic who tried to reproduce those studies, they used oral doses, so just small doses over a day.

But back in those days, they weren't aware of the different pharmacokinetics of vitamin C, they thought oral and intravenous, are just the same, like the drug. But it's quite different. Oral uptake is a lot lower, much smaller amounts are taken up versus intravenous, you can get really high doses. And very quickly,

Lisa: Up to 200 times. I heard Professor Gabi Dachs, saying that intravenous is up to 200 times for short periods, but that short periods makes a difference, because you can get that into the tumor cells and to—so that… And this is the problem. Professor Margreet Vissers was saying the original controversy around Linus Pauling’s work and because they didn't have an understanding of how can possibly this mechanism of action been working. They just pursued it, basically. And it caused this big rift, those on the side, and those on that side, and for the next—what are we? 40 something years later—we'll still actually, it's problematic.

Dr Anitra: Yes, it wasn't really till Mark Levine did his really detailed pharmacokinetic studies that people realized the big differences between oral and intravenous. And also there’s more recent discoveries of vitamin C's cofactor functions around regulating genes through herbs and through the epigenetic enzymes. These are all mechanisms, which could be involved and its anticancer mechanisms as such. And so the epigenetic area is a very, very exciting, very interesting area of research. And I think it'll enable us to personalize medicine in the future.

Lisa: Oh! I mean, I have an epigenetics program as one of my health programs. And yes, that's looking at okay, how genes being influenced by your environment, and let's optimize your environment to your genes. And the vitamin C helps serve to give people an understanding, so is vitamin C helping produce the enzymes that read the DNA? And then therefore having the reactions. Is that how it works?

Dr Anitra: It works as a code.

Lisa: the transcription

Dr Anitra: Yes, so it helps the function of the enzymes which modify the DNA. So genetics is about the DNA itself. Epigenetics is above the DNA. So it's a way to regulate the DNA as you know. Usually through adding methyl groups to the dynast DNA, adding and subtracting and that affects how the DNA is read by the enzymes that read DNA and transcribe it.

Lisa: Turning them on or off, or simplify.

Dr Anitra: So vitamin C, regulates the enzymes which modify the methyl groups and stimulates them coming off or stimulates different mechanisms happening. So switching certain genes on, switching certain genes off, now it can teach you to regulate thousands of genes in our body through stimulation of these enzymes.

Lisa: Wow. So yes, I've heard somewhere, I think it was seven or 8000 genes that are possibly affected by this. So we are really at the beginning of the vitamin C journey, as far as the epigenetics mechanisms is concerned. Yes, that's exciting.

Dr Anitra: A lot of its functions, not just in cancer, but in all areas of health and disease, these functions could be playing a role. So yes, huge areas of research possible there.

Lisa: Yes. Yes. Yes. Is there a—I remember Professor Margaret, talking about Tt? Is that one of the enzymes? The Tt one?

Dr Anitra: It is an enzyme, that's right.

Lisa: And that's important for cancer in some way?

Dr Anitra: Now, the enzyme search modifies the methylated DNA, some regulation that epigenetics. And it's definitely difficult.

Lisa: To replicate it in the cancer process. Wow. Okay, we're getting quite technical here.

Doctor Anitra, I just want to say thank you very much for your dedication because I've listened to a couple of interviews with you. And you've actually sacrificed quite a lot to do the research that you're doing because there isn't a heck of a lot of funding and things are out there. So, thank you for doing all that. It's a labour of love, I can imagine. It's a long, slow process, getting the information, getting it to be watertight—scientifically watertight, so that we can actually get people help, who need help. And that at the end of the day it’s the reason I'm doing this podcast. And it's the reason you're doing your research, and hopefully together and with many others, we can move the story along so that people get helped.

Is there anything that we haven't covered that you think would be an important message for people listening today?

Dr Anitra: Well, I think—I mean, of course, infection is very relevant these days with COVID. There’s a lot of information and misinformation floating around out there about vitamin C and COVID. And at this stage, the studies are still at the really early, early stages. Americans have done a study which shows that patients with COVID in the ICU do have low vitamin C levels, like other similar conditions. COVID is a severe respiratory infection like pneumonia and sepsis or complications with COVID. And so, I think that the key is to stay healthy, eat a good healthy...

Lisa: Boost your immune system, yes.

Dr Anitra: Yes, to support your immune system, it doesn't mean you won't get COVID. But it may decrease the severity and the duration, so it doesn't go on to become the more severe version, the pneumonia and sepsis.

So I think that's an important message and if you do get infection, your requirements, dear God, so you do need to take more vitamin C, you need to take gram amounts, rather than milligram amounts. Want you to prevent getting even more severe. So, I'm all for prevention as much as possible, not leaving it till it's too late. So, I think, yes, just look after yourself, eat well.

Lisa: Yes. And get your vitamin C. Come buy some kiwi fruit, and some oranges today, and some lemons, and capsicum. And some supplements maybe.

Just as a final thing, you yourself, have a study that's currently underway, which is really, really exciting. And this is based in the Christchurch hospital, I believe, in 40 patients and with sepsis. Can you just tell us a little bit, the parameters of that study and when you think you'll have some results from it?

Dr Anitra: So this was patients with septic shock. So once again, at the end. And they were administered either placebo control, so half the patients and the other half were given intravenous vitamin C at a dose of 100 milligrams per kilogram body tissue per day, which equates to about six to seven grams a day. The reason for that, I have wanted to use the high dose, Berry Fowler. But the ethics committee—because when I put this into the ethics committee, there were only the two studies out, which was Berry Fowler's and the small study headed by Iran. And they said, ‘Well, slightly more people have received a lot lower dose versus the higher dose. So we'd rather use the lower dose.’’ Even though there'd be no adverse events at any dose. And subsequently, no adverse events and any studies.

Lisa: No.

Dr Anitra: And so, we've used the lower dose, we've only just finished recruiting the last patients. It took a while and we had issues of lockdown. And so now we're in the process of analysing the samples that we've collected analysing the data. And so hopefully, we're about to pull that together, sometime next year and publish the results next year.

Lisa: Brilliant. I can't wait to see that. And yes, that's a little bit frustrating because I would have liked to have seen a study with the 15 to 18. And even that I thought was still very conservative compared to some of the cancer dosages. But I understand from what Dr Berry Fowler said because of the decreased kidney function often in septic patients and so on, but it's just like yes, but the dying often. And it's because that was one of the arguments that was thrown at me, I could damage my dad's kidneys. The sepsis was doing that quite nicely and he was dying anyway. So why the hell?

So, but I think even at those dosages, we’ll hopefully see some fantastic results come out of it. And hopefully, in future we'll be able to do slightly more high-powered dosages.

Dr Anitra: Yes. Well, the key is also the size of the study, our study is very small. And we were interested in being a scientist. I'm interested in how it's working in the body because once you understand how it's working, it makes it easier to design better studies and not our future studies.

And so, our study will be too small to show a yes or no, it decreases mortality or not—that we're leaving it up to the large studies to show there. And hopefully, we can put a bit more science behind how it's working, what's happening in the body.

Lisa: And it's such a complicated thing to design a study. People don't probably realize how the parameters and the limitations and the number of variables that you can look at and the primary outcomes and the secondary outcomes and so on.

Dr Anitra: Sepsis is such a complex variable that comes in as unique in this situation. So there's huge variability in the data. And that's where the biggest studies are good, because it helps decrease...

Lisa: The statistical...

Dr Anitra: The statistical analyses of those studies. Yes, I'm looking forward to the results of the big studies coming out.

Lisa: Yes, but these, these smaller ones are really, really important. So, and it's great that we've got one going in New Zealand. So, thank you very much for your work, Dr Anitra. It’s been absolutely fascinating. And thank you for your dedication to this. I really, really appreciate you.

Dr Anitra: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

View Details

Ascorbic acid or vitamin C is a known antioxidant. Clinicians have conducted numerous studies to discover its role and effectiveness on life-threatening diseases such as sepsis, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), cancer and COVID-19.

Dr Alpha 'Berry' Fowler joins us in this episode to share his work on vitamin C and its role in improving the survival of critically ill patients. He also talks about ongoing trials on vitamin C and its possible benefits on COVID patients.

If you want to know more about the research backing up the success of vitamin C in disease treatment, then this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. Learn the mechanism of sepsis in lung disease. 2. Discover the role of vitamin C in treating patients with sepsis and ARDS. 3. Find out more about past and ongoing trials on vitamin C.

Resources * Learn about Dr Fowler's Phase 1 safety trial of IV vitamin C in patients with severe sepsis. * Explanation lecture of the CITRIS-ALI study by Dr Fowler * JAMA publication on CITRIS-ALI * Article on the sequential organ failure assessment (SOFA) scores and mortality of patients involved in the CITRIS-ALI trials * Dr Paul Marik's protocol for sepsis using vitamin C and steroids

Episode Highlights [04:02] How Dr Fowler's Research on Bacterial Sepsis Began * Dr Fowler started working on mouse models to investigate sepsis. * A solution made from mouse pellets was injected into ten mice, five of which received a treatment of vitamin C. * The septic mice in the control group all died while those treated with vitamin C were crawling around, drinking water and eating. * Dr Fowler then started using animal models to determine how vitamin C treats sepsis.

[09:05] How Sepsis Damages the Lungs * In sepsis, the lung barrier is injured. * The progression of sepsis traps activated neutrophils in the capillary space of the lungs. * Activated neutrophils release their DNA and enzymes, damaging the capillaries. * Plasma then fills the air spaces, causing the patient to drown in their fluid.

[09:34] The Role of Vitamin C in a Septic Lung * In vitamin C-treated mice, the lung’s barrier function is preserved. * Vitamin C stops neutrophils from disgorging their DNA into the extracellular space. * Free DNA has become a marker to predict mortality. * Blood reanalysis showed vitamin C lowered free DNA circulation as a result. * Vitamin C completely inhibits the expression and appearance of inflammatory proteins.

[16:15] Phase 1 Safety Trial Outcomes * In a randomised, blinded trial, 24 patients were enrolled to determine the safety of vitamin C. * Organ failure score was tracked in all patients. The higher the score, the higher the incidence of mortality. * Patients treated with vitamin C saw a dramatic and significant reduction in their organ failure score. * Vitamin C also improved their chance of survival. * Intermittent infusion of vitamin C every 6 hours could get the plasma level up to 3000 times the normal level.

[25:47] Phase 2 Proof-of-Concept Trial Outcomes * Patients enrolled in the study had septic ARDS. * The vitamin C treatment resulted in no adverse event. * After 96 hours, 19 of 83 placebo patients died while only 4 of 84 patients with vitamin C died. * Upon follow-up after 28 days, 46% of placebo patients died while only 30% of treatment patients died. * This was the first blinded trial to show vitamin C’s impact on the mortality of patients with ARDS.

[28:17] Explaining the Inconsistency of the SOFA Score * Jean-Louis Vincent created the SOFA score. * Jean-Louis Vincent sent a letter to the editors of Dr Fowler's work that the data was incorrectly analysed. * Reanalysis showed the patients who died had the top SOFA score. * Vitamin C significantly impacted organ failure scores. * Vitamin C treatment resulted in a significant number of ICU-free days, improved mortality and more hospital-free days at day 60.

[36:05] Is There Another Trial Underway? * The NIH tasked the Prevention and Early Treatment of Acute Lung Injury (PETAL) Network to turn towards COVID treatment. * Dr Fowler started a trial on vitamin C as a treatment for patients with early COVID pneumonia, and the results are dramatic. * There is another trial for sepsis and vitamin C planned by the PETAL Network involving 1000 patients across 69 medical centres.

[39:48] Why Larger Doses of Vitamin C Are Not Administered * The primary concern for higher doses of vitamin C is the formation of renal stones. * A safety trial is first recommended before vitamin C treatment for COVID pneumonia can begin.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘The cage that the mice got the sepsis and the vitamin C, they were all crawling around, drinking water and eating. And I knew at that point that we had stumbled on something pretty significant’.

‘One of the first things we found was that the lungs of the treated mice that were septic, they weren’t injured’.

‘Most people understand sepsis as being a bacterial infection, but they don't understand that it's actually taking all the organs and causing oxidative damage to multiple organs, not just the lungs’.

‘We had kind of a basic grasp on the immune system and how vitamin C could alter the septic immune response and how vitamin C could protect the lung’.

‘Vitamin C was actually improving the possibility of survival’.

‘The amount of vitamin C that you administer is critical. Dose matters’.

‘You’re going to save not only thousands and eventually more — hundreds and thousands of lives. You’re going to reduce hospital bills enormously’.

About Dr Fowler In his 35 years of service at VCU, Alpha A. ‘Berry’ Fowler, M.D., Professor of Medicine and Director, VCU Johnson Center for Critical Care and Pulmonary Research, has had a profound influence at VCU and beyond. Considering his robust grant support and over 300 publications and abstracts in clinical areas including adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and sepsis, he might well be lauded for that alone.

Likewise, with over 16 years as Pulmonary Disease and Critical Care Medicine (PDCCM) Division Chair, with numerous ‘Top Doc’ awards and other honours, his pursuit of excellence in clinical care, impacting thousands of patients and their families, might well be the highlight of most careers.

To learn more about Dr Fowler’s research on vitamin C, you may contact him at 804-828-9071 or send a message to alpha.fowler@vcuhealth.org.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Hi everyone and welcome to Pushing the Limits. This week I have an exciting interview with intensive care medicine doctor, Dr Berry Fowler, who is an intensivist from the Virginia Commonwealth University. The director of the VCU unit via 35 years of service at the VCU Johnson Center for Critical Care and Pulmonary Research. And he's also the author of a number of studies around vitamin C.

So today we're continuing that conversation that we've been having in the last few weeks around the importance of vitamin C. Last week, we had Professor Margreet Vissers on, from Otago University, talking about—who worked with vitamin C in cancer. She's been studying this for 20 years. And Dr Berry Fowler has been studying vitamin C in regards to sepsis and pneumonia and how to use it in COVID. And he's been researching in this area with vitamin C for over 15 years. So some really amazing insights into this incredible vitamin and how it can help with all of these things. So please don't miss this episode.

If you enjoy the content, please share it with your family and friends. You know, there’s some important messages that we're wanting to get out in this vitamin C thing that I've been doing, because I lost my father recently and this would have been a major player and I was desperate to get him help with intravenous vitamin C, and I was unable to until way too late. And so I'm desperately wanting to get out the information about this research about the clinical studies that have been done, the research that's been done, to share this really important information.

As always, I really appreciate a rating or review for the show. If you can do that, that'd be so so appreciated. And if you've got any questions, please email me at support@lisa tamati.com, if you want to discuss anything that was brought up in these topics, in this podcast. I'm also doing some one on one consultations. I have a limited number of spaces available for people who are wanting to work with me one on one. If you are facing difficulties in areas from whether it be around some of your health aspects like head injuries, obviously I've spent five years researching head injuries. I have a lot of knowledge around vitamin C. I have a lot of knowledge around biohacking, around epigenetics trained as an epigenetics coach, gene testing, and so on. And I work with a very small number of people who are needing help with these areas. As well as of course run coaching and mindset in high performance. So if you're wanting to get some one on one support with me, please reach out to me it's lisa@lisatamati.com. And I can send you the information there.

Right over to the show now with Dr Barry fellow who is sitting in Virginia in the USA. Well welcome everybody to Pushing the Limits. This week. I have a very special interview continuing our series around intravenous vitamin C or vitamin C in general. I have Dr Barry Fowler with me, who is sitting in Virginia and Dr Fowler has agreed to come and have a little chat today about his work in this area. Dr Fowler, I've done a wonderful extra introduction. So we won't go into all your amazing credentials and your achievements, of which there have been many. But Dr Fowler, can you just give us a little bit of background? You are the director of the VCU Virginia University over in the States. Can you tell us a little bit about your work and your background?

Dr Berry Fowler: Okay, well, I am professor of medicine in the Division of Pulmonary Disease and Critical Care Medicine and I'm one of the ancient doctors in the division, just turning 71 last week. I trained at the Medical College of Georgia in the US, then went to the Medical College of Virginia in the US, then went to the University of Colorado for pulmonary and critical care disease training, and then came back and joined the faculty at Virginia Commonwealth University which used to be the Medical College of Virginia, it's now VCU, in 1982 and I've been here ever since.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: I rose slowly through the ranks. I led the pulmonary division for a number of years, for approximately 17 years, and then stepped aside in 2016. And all during this time, at least for 13 years now, we've had this interest in vitamin C. And it's interesting how our interest in vitamin C developed. It first started at a very molecular level where we were studying cardiac ischemia, but some of the heart attendings. And then slowly began to get back to what we have been doing for years which was bacterial sepsis. And we had some molecular reasons that drove us towards vitamin C.

And so first thing we did was we created an animal model of sepsis. And let me explain that. It was pretty straightforward to create. We had 30 gram mice and we went to the mouse cage and collected mouse pellets. Then took them to the laboratory and sonicated them really hard until it became a solution.

Lisa: So this is the fecal matter. Yes.

Dr Berry: And we would take that solution and centrifuge it really hard so that all the solid matter went to the bottom of the tube and we just took off the liquid from the top, which contained multiple different kinds of organisms.

Lisa: So all the bacteria. Yes.

Dr Berry: Yes. And so we took that, put it in the refrigerator overnight and then came in the next morning. And we had 10 mice. We had 5 control mice and then 5 treatment mice. So all the mice first were injected into their peritoneal space, you mentioned that earlier, with a tenth of an mL of this solution containing all this bacteria. And so all 10 mice. And then in the mice that were going to receive the vitamin C, we injected a tenth of an mL, which was 200 micrograms per gram of bodyweight of the mice and then closed off the light. By that point, it was about 4:00 in the afternoon. And just let the mice sit in the laboratory where we had left them and I always get to work at 6:00 in the morning and I was thinking, ‘Holy cow, I got to see what's going on.’ And so I went into the lab where we had the mice and the cage that was the control mice that were septic. They were all dead. In the cage that the mice got the sepsis and the vitamin C, they were all crawling around drinking water and eating.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: And I knew at that point that we had stumbled on something pretty significant. This take us back to around 2010. Maybe 2009. My laboratory has had this intense interest in sepsis ever since I finished my training at the University of Colorado. And so what we decided is that we would begin to use the treatment animals and some control animals to determine exactly how vitamin C was working.

Lisa: To look at the molecular, the mechanism of action. Why is this happening? Why are they surviving better?

Dr Berry: So what we did was—in these studies, we were always comparing the control mice to the treated mice. And one of the first things we found was that the lungs of the treated mice that were septic, they weren't injured.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: And we have a number of ways to determine the way a lung is injured. One of the things that happens in sepsis, and this might have been what you and I were talking about earlier, is the lungs barrier function, which is the ability to keep the blood in the blood and keep the air in the air.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: It gets injured. And so the bloodstream floods into the airspaces of the lung.

Lisa: And fills it.

Dr Berry: Yes. And one of the things we discovered was lung barrier function was preserved and the vitamin C treated septic mice.

Lisa: Wow. So you're perceiving that it’s stopping the plasma and the neutrophils getting into the alveolar space.

Dr Berry: Exactly.

Lisa: And the NET— of one of your lectures, you talk about neutrophil extracellular traps (NET). Is that a part of the barrier function?

Dr: Berry: Very nice. When are you starting medical school?

Lisa: Thank you, Dr Fowler.

Dr Berry: So what happens as sepsis progresses is that there are a bunch of molecules that live in the capillaries of the lung that begin to get expressed. And what they do is they trap neutrophils that are activated in the capillary space of the lung. And one of the things that happens in a highly activated neutrophil is they disgorge their DNA and all of the enzyme systems inside a neutrophil begin to damage the capillaries. And then what happens as the capillaries get injured, the plasma from the lung, just a vein from the bloodstream, just flows into the lungs.

Lisa: So you’re basically lost—it's like your skin barrier, if you like, between the ear and your insides is disintegrating.

Dr Berry: Well, one injury from sepsis is like drowning.

Lisa: Wow, so you fill it with your own fluid.

Dr Berry: The airspaces of the lung fill up with your own plasma.

Lisa: So when you have, cause sepsis—I don't think most people are not aware of the progression of sepsis to acute respiratory distress syndrome. That this is a sort of a linear progression that happens, isn't it? That you actually get lung—because most people understand sepsis as being a bacterial infection but they don't understand that it's actually taking all the organs and causing oxidative damage to multiple organs, not just the lungs, but particularly the lungs. And so this is a very important finding that what you've had here because this means that if you can stop the vitamin C, if the vitamin C can stop the neutrophils from disgorging their own DNA into the extracellular space, which is then, that's in a marker, isn't it? That cell-free DNA, when you take a plasma drawn and you see that cell-free DNA floating around at a certain level, that's a predictor of mortality, isn't it?

Dr Berry: Listen, you've done some fabulous reading. But let me just tell you, it's been known for several years that in septic individuals, one of the unfortunate things that will predict mortality is how high the cell-free DNA arises in the circulation. And I don't want to jump too far here, but I will tell you and the vitamin C trial that we reported one year ago this month, that when we reanalyzed the blood from those individuals, we found that vitamin C dramatically lowered the cell-free DNA in the treated patients.

Lisa: Wow. That was in the CITRIS-ALI study?

Dr Berry: Exactly.

Lisa: Oh, okay. That's a new finding from that study because, yes, we will go through that progression of how you got to do that study. So let's bookmark that for a moment and backtrack because that is a very important finding for that study. So let’s backtrack a little bit.

So we are talking about vitamin C being able to protect the lungs if we put it very simply and protect the barrier function of the lungs, stop the neutrophils from disgorging the DNA and causing these traps, which is a predictor of mortality. What are other things is vitamin C doing? And why is a septic patient, without fail, going to be very low in vitamin C? So you’re using that for Vitamin C.

Dr Berry: I'll get to that in a minute. But what we demonstrated in a huge number of murine mouse studies is that the septic lung in a control animal, the septic lung began to express many inflammatory proteins. And that's just your endogenous immune system trying to protect itself. But we showed in the next cage, in the septic mice that we had treated with Vitamin C, that the expression and the appearance of those inflammatory proteins was totally inhibited completely.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: Yes. The idea of leaping from preclinical animal studies into humans was that we had kind of a basic grasp on the immune system and how Vitamin C could alter the septic immune response and how Vitamin C could protect the lung. Well, protecting the lung in terms of septic critical illness is very, very important.

Lisa: Absolutely. And so then you went to a phase one safety trial, which was really to look at some basic markers. Is this going to be damaging for people if they get vitamin C and look at hypertension? And is it going to affect the kidneys and so on. I think some of those safety mechanisms. Can you tell us a little bit about that phase one safety trial and then the outcomes of that trial?

Dr Berry: Well, I can tell you, I had this really close colleague. His office sat right next to mine. He's a molecular biologist, basic scientist. And after we'd done all these murine studies, one day he walked in, he looked at me, said, ‘Fowler, this needs to go into the hospital. We've developed all this data. You've got to make it happen to get it into the hospital’. We designed this little safety trial, enrolled 24 patients. The safety trial was randomized and it was blinded. And so half the trial was just controlled sepsis. The other half was septic patients treated with Vitamin C and we had no idea who the hell was giving vitamin C to people who were critically ill.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: And we found it had no impact. But one of the things we were shocked at, and we were just trying to define, was vitamin C safe?

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: One of the things we tracked was what is called an Organ Failure Score. And we found that all of the patients treated with Vitamin C, their Organ Failure Score reduced dramatically and significantly.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: And the way Organ Failure Scores, basically you're counting numbers. A higher number is a higher incidence of mortality. Lower numbers are improved and that vitamin C was actually improving the possibility of survival.

Lisa: So this is like, in my father's case, is the sepsis progressed and I was unable to get him Vitamin C as we discussed earlier, Dr Fowler, early enough for him to get to survive. But as I watched his sepsis progress, more and more organs started to fail. So his liver started to fail. His kidneys started to fail. His heart started to fail. And so this is the Organ Failure Score. If this person's Organ Failure Score is going up, that is a very strong predictor of mortality.

Dr Berry: Yes.

Lisa: Okay, so this was reduced with the people who received the Vitamin C in the small trial.

Dr Berry: So what we did, we took the data, we combined it with our preclinical data, and applied to the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute. They had just published an announcement where they were asking for anybody who could think of some clever trial. And we said, ‘Well’. And so we submitted an application. What the NIH wanted, they wanted the proposal for a phase two, proof of concept trial.

Lisa: Right.

Dr Berry: And so what we proposed was a trial that had seven medical centers. I have friends in seven medical centers around the US. And with this application in and that was I guess you guys don't remember Hurricane Sandy.

Lisa: Yes, I do.

Dr Berry: Hurricane Sandy was just—it killed the Atlantic Coast of the US. And the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute happens to sit on the Atlantic Coast in Washington, D.C. And it was a year and a half before we found out that we had received the highest priority score because of the application that we had submitted. And the NIH gave us 3.2 million dollars to do a multicenter, randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled trial, proposing to administer 50 milligrams per kilogram of intravenous Vitamin C every six hours for ninety six hours. Patients were continuously receiving vitamin C.

Lisa: Can you explain why that continuous topping up that level is important every six hours?

Dr Berry: That's a great question. So from the safety trial that we had performed, we analyzed the plasma Vitamin C levels that we had achieved by infusing. So basically someone your size, for example, would probably get maybe 3 1/2 grams intravenously every six hours for ninety six hours. And what we showed was, we could get the plasma level up to basically three thousand times the normal plasma level. So from a normal diet, human plasma levels of vitamin C are about 70 to 80 micromolar. When you give the protocol that we had settled with, we got the Vitamin C levels up to five millimolar.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: Yes. And so that's what we were shooting for in this NIH trial. And that's what we did. We charged into it, the trial. What we had proposed again, was the Organ Failure Score as well as the two biomarkers. We also proposed in the secondary outcomes, days on mechanical ventilation.

Lisa: Yes, which is hugely important.

Dr Berry: And what we were studying specifically, was patients who were septic, who had gone on to develop acute lung injury called Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome, ARDS. And so when a patient was septic, like your father, we would become a fly on the wall and visit the patient every day until a lung injury developed. And that's when they would get randomized.

Lisa: This was a critical—from my analysis of the data, that was a critical thing in the phase. So you had to wait until I basically had developed ARDS before you were able to put them. So this wasn't really a sepsis trial, but more of an ARDS trial. So the progression of the sickness comes into play here, doesn't it? If you’ve gone through day one, like in the phase...

Dr Berry: In the safety trial...

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: The second aseptic individual walked in the door, that's when they got random.

Lisa: Which is a much better, more effective with the timing.

Dr Berry: We had a couple of patients who got Vitamin C in the emergency room.

Lisa: Yes, wow.

Dr Berry: You know you have to get informed consent. You have to get the pharmacy on board and get the patient enthused.

Lisa: I wish I'd had you tending to my father. We could have had that from the moment he got to the emergency. That would have been, I think we would have had a different outcome. But so this was a key point that you had to wait until I had developed ARDS. So in this CITRIS-ALI trial, so here you have, I think it was 47 patients in the control and 47 in the intervention group, was it right?

Dr Berry: 83. And 84 in the Vitamin C treatment.

Lisa: Oh, 83. I'm sorry. Sorry. So 167. One of the big questions I had in my— why was mortality not one of the primary objectives of the study?

Dr Berry: That has been the most frequent question. When we answered the NIH, they had put out a program called, UM1, and we applied to the UM1 program and they were not interested in mortality as a primary outcome. Part of it was this. There had been hundreds of sepsis trials and nobody had ever shown any impact on a treatment for sepsis. And so NIH didn't want to get burned again so they said that they wanted a physiological outcome. That was the Organ Failure Score. And they wanted a biochemical outcome. Those were the biomarkers.

Lisa: It's the C-reactive protein, procalcitonin and thrombomodulin. And yes. So the reasoning was that we don't want to shoot for the stars here and automatically hope for a decrease in mortality and a decrease of days in hospital. We're going to go for something else just to see if this has legs, so to speak, if this treatment is possible, possibly going to work. And that's why they went for the safer scores, rather than the mortality. Looking back, do you think...

Dr Berry: By the way, we haven't talked about this yet, but SOFA stand for Sequential Organ Failure Assessment Score.

Lisa: Thank you. Yes, it's amazing the jargon that you pick up and then forget that you haven't explained yourself. So what actually was the outcome? This was a seven multicenter trial. You did a double blinded. This was incredibly important because I know Dr Paul Marik had also done a study with intravenous Vitamin C, thiamine, and hydrocortisone. And one of the criticisms that was thrown at him was that it wasn’t a double blind, randomized controlled trial, so it didn't have any meaning, which is absolutely tragic. So this was—what was the outcomes of this phase two trial?

Dr Berry: So we enrolled 170 patients. One of the placebo patients we had to take out because that patient did not have septic ARDS. They had Acute Eosinophilic Pneumonia. That's something else to discuss later. And then in the Vitamin C arm, we had two patients with Acute Leukemia who had no coagulation in their bloodstream and they were hemorrhaging into their lung and that was not sepsis. So as I mentioned, we had 83 in the control placebo and 84 in the vitamin C-treated group. First of all, we saw no, and I emphasize capital N-O, adverse events. There was not a single adverse event.

Lisa: Exactly.

Dr Berry: All right. And so what we showed was in 96 hours, placebo patients in the trial, 19 of 83 died within 96 hours.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: In the Vitamin C group, 4 of 84 patients died. And if you look at the statistics and the analysis of that, the difference is P=0.0007. We then followed the patients out because in sepsis trials, there's always this demand to see what is happening to a patient at 28 days.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: And what we showed was 46% of placebo patients died and only 30% of the Vitamin C treated septic patients with ARDS died.

Lisa: Wow, that's a huge result in my mind.

Dr Berry: And that was the first trial. I'm not slapping myself on the back, but I will just tell you, that was the first trial to ever show in a blinded fashion, an impact on ARDS.

Lisa: Yes. On mortality of ARDS.

Dr Berry: Yes.

Lisa: And this was extremely sick people. Now, unfortunately, the SOFA scores didn't show any difference and the C-reactive protein markers didn't show any difference.

Dr Berry: So let me explain.

Lisa: Is it because... Yes, is it because of the mortality.

Dr Berry: So we thought publishing the results of the trial in probably one of the most important journals on the planet, JAMA, which as it turns out, is a very, very conservative journal. And they had their ideas about what we could and we couldn't say. So we published, and this is very important for you to listen to and all of your listeners, we published that there was no difference in the SOFA scores at 96 hours. And immediately, letters to the editor started coming in and one of the most important letters to the editor was the person who created the SOFA score. His name is Jean-Louis Vincent in Brussels, Belgium. He told us that we had analyzed the data incorrectly and that what we were reporting was a survivorship bias.

Lisa: What does that mean?

Dr Berry: And what he said we needed to do, and he provided five publications where he had important statisticians tell him that analyzing the data, like we reported, as a worst rank, best rank scenario, that we had to reanalyze it so that the patients who died, what we were reporting was the SOFA scores on the people who had survived.

Lisa: Not the ones who died.

Dr Berry: We had not considered the SOFA score on the patients who died.

Lisa: And because they died so quickly.

Dr Berry: So what we did was we went back and the people who died along the way, those 19 patients, they got the top SOFA score. The patients who survived and left the unit, they got a low SOFA score. And so when we reanalyzed the data, according to the way these letters that had come in from Dr Vincent and two or three other colleagues, it turns out that Vitamin C significantly impacted the Organ Failure Score.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: And then we—here's the important thing, we reported that February 25th of 2020. So you can go to JAMA, you can look it up and you can see our response to the SOFA score reanalysis.

Lisa: Because this was a key factor in my father's case. They threw the CITRIS-ALI trial at me and the original data from JAMA, which said negative result, which when I analyzed...

Dr Berry: That lets you know that the doctors were not reading JAMA.

Lisa: Exactly. And they weren't on the up to date and they did not look at secondary outcomes and they did not look at the parameters of the score and I was not able to present the case. They had just read it briefly.

Dr Berry: Let me go on. We had a strong trend to ventilator-free days and the people who got the Vitamin C, but it just missed statistical significance.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: But we had a strong significance for the people who got Vitamin C in Intensive Care Unit-free days.

Lisa: Which is huge.

Dr Berry: So the people who got Vitamin C had a significantly higher number of ICU-free days. There was an improved mortality. The other thing is patients who got Vitamin C had significantly more hospital-free days at day 60.

Lisa: Wow. So they were actually out of the system altogether. Do you think—now this is controversial, I'm playing devil's advocate here. But do you think the fact that it costs so much for someone to be in ICU when they have sepsis—I think in America it's something like, to the order of 60,000 dollars US a day—and the medications that they are typically on are costing around 20,000 dollars a day, do you think that if you come along with Vitamin C and you start dropping the mortality rate, you start dropping the days? Is that part of the resistance to accept and acknowledge these findings, that the pharmaceutical companies are going to lose out on profit?

Dr Berry: Oh no no no. No, no, no. At VCU, Virginia Commonwealth University—that Anitra knows well—the average care cost per day is about 46,000 per day because that accounts for medical care, nursing care, radiology, all laboratory data, respiratory care, caring for the ventilator. All of that is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 45 to 50,000 dollars per day. And so, if you have a treatment, first of all, that gets people out of the ICU earlier and keeps them out of the hospital, think about the impact on the cost of care.

Lisa: Yes, it’d be huge.

Dr Berry: But here's the other thing. There's not going to be any drug company out there who would argue with that. They are all trying to do the best they can with their different antibiotics, but the common antibiotics that are administered in an ICU when patients are septic levofloxacin, meropenem, vancomycin. Just one day of meropenem is 1500 per day.

Lisa: Exactly. It's a lot of money.

Dr Berry: Yes.

Lisa: So you don't think that...

Dr Berry: And listen to this. That's the cost of the drug. That's not the cost of pharmacy preparing the drug, cost of nursing administering the drug and so on and so on and so on.

Lisa: Okay, so all right. So if you can work this problem out and if you can get this in all ICUs around the world, we're going to save not only thousands and eventually more hundreds of thousands of lives, you're going to reduce the hospital bills enormously. So this is incredibly important work. And you've proven—so the statisticians proved in that phase two trial that the way that you are measuring it was incorrect because a lot of people, as you said, 19 died in those first four days in the control group and only four, so that skewed—if you like—the statistics to initially look like we hadn't had a win here. Now, that's been rescinded and you've managed to get JAMA to publish it in a different light, that the SOFA score was impacted. What has been the effect now? Have you got another trial underway or have you got one in sight? Because this work’s too important, obviously, not to be taken further into a phase three.

Dr Berry: All right, so you are in New Zealand where there's not much COVID.

Lisa: No.

Dr Berry: We are in the United States, where it's a pandemic, where we are close to 220,000 people who have died from the virus. We are at 50,000 new cases per day.

Lisa: Oh my God. It's so...

Dr Berry: And there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,800 to 2,000 patients dying per day of COVID. And so because of that, the network that I'm part of, that unfortunately—I'm going to have to jump off and listen to it, because it's been going on since 2:00, the annual meeting of the Prevention and Early Treatment of Acute Lung Injury Network, abbreviated P-E-T-A-L, the PETAL Network. The PETAL Network was tasked by the NIH to turn sharply towards COVID treatments.

Lisa: Yes. That makes sense.

Dr Berry: And so we were thinking, ‘Well, maybe vitamin C to treat patients with early COVID pneumonia’. And so what we did was we started a trial. We have studied 20 patients now and that trial is complete, where patients who develop COVID infection and develop early COVID pneumonia, so it's just at the start of an oxygen requirement, are treated with Vitamin C and the results have been pretty dramatic. We are in the midst of writing that up. But again, it's a—open label trial. It's not blinded. Everybody in the world knows that an open label trial does not have the power like we did with CITRIS-ALI.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: And so what is happening at a world level is that all of the health organizations around the world have come to bear to try to design treatments for COVID pneumonia.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: And that is ongoing right now. And there are like 9 or 10 major networks in, across the world. Probably, I'm not sure if New Zealand is included in that, but Europe, the US, possibly Australia. I don't know if they commit to participating in what is called the network of networks formation.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: So right now, the next trial for patients with sepsis that's not COVID is going to be conducted by the PETAL Network where we will be probably next April, starting a trial with a thousand patients.

Lisa: Wow.

Dr Berry: Using vitamin C conducted by the PETAL Network.

Lisa: Gotcha.

Dr Berry: And the PETAL Network has 69 medical centers. So doing a trial that would get a thousand patients can be done within a year.

Lisa: Wow. So this is exciting stuff because this is hopefully you'll be able to reproduce and show a strong correlation between intravenous vitamin C and I'd like to see the decrease in the mortality rate. That would be a key factor. Some centers are already using vitamin C because as you mentioned before, there were no adverse reactions. And this is like in all of the studies that I've seen there has never— this is a low risk intervention and my argument when fighting for my father was that, ‘He's dying. There is no other options. Why can't I throw the bus in? Why can't I put intravenous Vitamin C’? And they were like, ‘You still have to go through all the ethics committees’. I had to sign off from every single doctor and every single nurse in the ICU unit of which there are many.

Dr Berry: Well, let me make another statement. So Paul Marik, who was using 1.5 grams of Vitamin C, 200 milligrams of thiamine and 50 milligrams of hydrocortisone, administered every six hours. That meant that the patients were only getting 7 grams.

Lisa: Very small amount.

Dr Berry: In the CITRIS-ALI, I mean, some patients got 16 to 18 or 20 grams.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: According to body weights, 50 milligrams per kilogram. In the aftermath of that article that you mentioned that Marik published, there have been efforts to repeat that trial. The vitamins trial came out in January, using that and it failed. Then another trial, the ACTS trial using the Marik protocol failed. And then a trial that I just participated in called the VICTAS trial completely failed. And so the Marik protocol is not an effective treatment for sepsis. And well, look. As I think Anitra Carr mentioned to me a couple of years back, the amount of vitamin C that you administer is critical.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Dr Berry: So dose matters. And the adult, again, of your size, you probably weigh 120 pounds or something would probably get somewhere in the neighborhood of about 12 and a half to 13 grams, spread out over a 24-hour period. And then you would get it for four days.

Lisa: Yes. And that is still a relatively low dose.

Dr Berry: It is.

Lisa: When I'm doing intravenous vitamin C with my mum, I did it with my dad prior and unfortunately, months prior to his aneurysm. Too little, too late. We were getting 30 grams. We get 30 grams a week. When I take my mum and niece today for an intravenous Vitamin C is a prophylactic as I try to keep her, as a 79 year old healthy, 30 grams. So why—I had this question certainly with Dr Marik’s protocol. It seemed to me to be very low, although the six hourly is obviously a very important point as well. Why not do the bigger dosages? Like in Japan, I know they did a study with up to a hundred grams of Vitamin C in a burns case, a burns trial, where they had some markers of sepsis there. Why are you not trying higher levels?

Dr Berry: Let me come in here quick? Because I'm going to have to jump off in about 8 minutes. But listen to this. The major concern for those high doses of vitamin C, and if you talk to the oncologists who have been using it for years, they will give, like you said, they will give massive doses. And I'm talking massive, like in somebody with pancreatic cancer, they will get 60 to 80 grams intravenously, Monday, Wednesday and Friday for seven weeks.

Lisa: Yes.

Dr Berry: But the major concern, in somebody who's septic, who's hypotensive, in shock, that you're giving vitamin C, one of the major concerns is that it causes a significant rise in oxalate crystals formatiion in the kidneys. Now, I will mention here in the CITRIS trial, we had no evidence of renal stone formation.

Lisa: No. And I mean, that was one of the arguments that the doctors had at me, ‘You could have damaged his kidneys’. And I said, ‘Well, the last time I looked, being dead damages your kidneys too’. To me, that wasn't even a consideration. And he had—after the very first vitamin C, and for my dad, his kidney function went from 27 percent to 33 percent. He's actually improved his kidney function overnight. And I know that's just one anecdotal case, but kidney stones are not going to kill you either. So surely that's not the most important consideration here when you've got a septic patient who is on death's doorstep.

Dr Berry: With vitamin C struggling in the United States after the CITRIS trial, the Federal Food and Drug Administration, they always have to be concerned about adverse events. And we have put together a trial randomized and double blind using Vitamin C in patients with COVID-pneumonia. That's about to start.

Lisa: Wonderful.

Dr Berry: And we had, I unfortunately let my IND, Investigational New Drug lapse after CITRIS. And so I've had to claw our way back into the good graces of the FDA. And one of their major, major, major complaints was, ‘You're going to be forming renal stones’. And we're using the same protocol that we used in CITRIS. So FDA got their nephrologists involved and finally gave us the IND. But for us to begin treatment of COVID pneumonia, they have demanded that we first do a small safety trial to show that we are not causing any renal stone formation. We can get that done. We currently have somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 COVID patients in the MCV hospitals right now.

Lisa: Wow. Well, Dr Fowler, look, I know I'd love to spend another five hours with you discussing all this because I think it's incredibly important, both for COVID and for the sepsis and for pneumonia and for obviously, for cancer. I just want to thank you for your dedication to this. I mean, you could be in retirement and sunning yourself somewhere, relaxing, but, you know...

Dr Berry: That's right.

Lisa: You know that this work is critically important. And I heard one of your lectures is the equivalent of two 747 planes going down every day filled with people.

Dr Berry: Every day in the United States.

Lisa: In the United States alone.

Dr Berry: That’s just in the U.S.

Lisa: Yes. And these people, thousands of families being destroyed with losing loved ones. I'm one of those, unfortunately, sitting here all the way in New Zealand. And so this work is incredibly important. So please keep going. And I'm desperate to hear what comes from this COVID clinical trials and the other sepsis trials, obviously. So thank you so much for your work, Dr Fowler, and I really appreciate you.

Dr Berry: It's been wonderful meeting you and speaking with you, and your and your audience. And when you have Anitra on a couple of weeks, give her my regards.

Lisa: I will definitely do that, Dr Fowler. That's been awesome. Thank you, Dr Fowler. And all the very best there in Virginia.

Dr Berry: Take care. Bye.

That’s it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends, and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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The battle against cancer has been ongoing for hundreds of years now. But recently, interest in using vitamin C to improve outcomes for cancer patients has been growing. And the results of these various studies look promising.

Biochemist and medical researcher Professor Margreet Vissers joins us in this episode to explain her current research on vitamin C and how it helps the immune system fight cancer. She also talks about the other health benefits of vitamin C, as well as some of its limitations.

Is vitamin C the cancer treatment we’ve been looking for all along? Tune in to find out.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. You will learn about vitamin C’s role in controlling tumours. 2. Discover how humans metabolise vitamin C differently from other animals. 3. Know how intravenous vitamin C turned around a leukaemia patient’s relapse.

Resources * Watch Professor Margreet Vissers' lecture on her work on vitamin C. * “The power of C” on University of Otago Magazine * Das, A. B., Kakadia, P. M., Wojcik, D., Pemberton, L., Browett, P. J., Bohlander, S. K., & Vissers, M. C. M. (2019). Clinical remission following ascorbate treatment in a case of acute myeloid leukemia with mutations in TET2 and WT1. Blood Cancer Journal, 9, 82. doi: 10.1038/s41408-019-0242-4 * Vissers, M. C. M., & Das, A. B. (2018). Potential mechanisms of action for vitamin C in cancer: Reviewing the evidence. Frontiers in Physiology, 9, 809. doi: 10.3389/fphys.2018.00809 * Ang, A., Pullar, J. M., Currie, M. J., & Vissers, M. C. M. (2018). Vitamin C and immune cell function in inflammation and cancer. Biochemical Society Transactions, 46, 1147–1159. doi: 10.1042/bst20180169 * Carr, A. C., Vissers, M. C. M., & Cook, J. S. (2015). Parenteral vitamin C relieves chronic fatigue and pain in a patient with rheumatoid arthritis and mononeuritis multiplex secondary to CNS vasculitis. Case Reports in Clinical Pathology, 2(2), 57–61. doi: 10.5430/crcp.v2n2p57 * Dachs, G. U., Munn, D. G., Carr, A. C., Vissers, M. C. M., & Robinson, B. A. (2014). Consumption of vitamin C is below recommended daily intake in many cancer patients and healthy volunteers in Christchurch. New Zealand Medical Journal, 127(1390). Retrieved from https://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Carr, A. C., Vissers, M. C. M., & Cook, J. (2014). Parenteral vitamin C for palliative care of terminal cancer patients. New Zealand Medical Journal, 127(1396). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Carr, A. C., Vissers, M. C. M., & Cook, J. (2014). Relief from cancer chemotherapy side effects with pharmacologic vitamin C. New Zealand Medical Journal, 127(1388). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Pullar, J. M., Carr, A. C., & Vissers, M. C. M. (2013). Vitamin C supplementation and kidney stone risk. New Zealand Medical Journal, 126(1384). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Carr, A. C., Pullar, J. M., & Vissers, M. C. M. (2013). Beating the blues: The association between fruit and vegetable intake and improved mood. New Zealand Medical Journal, 126(1384). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Carr, A. C., Vissers, M. C. M., Lewis, J., & Elder, P. (2012). Multiple nutrient insufficiencies: Hypovitaminosis D and C in young adult New Zealand males. New Zealand Medical Journal, 125(1364). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal * Carr, A. C., & Vissers, M. C. M. (2012). Good nutrition matters: Hypovitaminosis C associated with depressed mood and poor wound healing. New Zealand Medical Journal, 125(1362). Retrieved from http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal

Episode Highlights [04:50] Vitamin C and White Blood Cells * After killing bacteria, white blood cells destroy themselves so that the toxicity doesn’t spill into tissues. * Vitamin C plays a role in regulating the cell death pathway. * Margreet observed that white blood cells low in vitamin C did not go to resolve the end of the infection.

[07:15] How Neutrophil Extracellular Traps (NETs) Work * NETs are a variation of vitamin C’s mechanism. * Neutrophils are cells attracted to infection and eat hundreds of bacteria. They have oxidants that kill bacteria. * Neutrophils eject ‘niche’ or the DNA package inside them. The niche has microbicidal proteins. The niche forms ‘traps’ that localise bacteria on the site of infection.

[13:18] Vitamin C Production in Animals * All animals make their vitamin C mostly in the liver; some produce the vitamin in the kidney. Animals that can make vitamin C do it on demand. They can increase production a hundred times to keep blood levels saturated. * Humans lost the gene to make vitamin C; thus, we are dependent on food for supply. When we are sick or infected, our body consumes vitamin C fast. If we do not replenish our vitamin C, our body levels will decline.

[16:35] Route of Vitamin C Administration * Plasma vitamin C levels go up to a maximum level of 100 micromolars. * Kidneys filter and regulate vitamin C. Saturated tissues will not absorb any more vitamin C; the excess will be released in the urine. * Oral intake is suitable for day to day intake while people with severe illnesses will need infusion. * Vitamin C infusion results in high plasma levels for a short period. Any excess will pass, and the plasma levels will be back to normal in 8 or 9 hours.

[22:01] Function of Vitamin C * The enzyme needed to produce collagen needs vitamin C; thus, the vitamin is good for the skin. * It plays various roles in inflammation, wound healing, controlling infection, and even brain function. * Vitamin C regulates gene expression. * Vitamin C supports the production of serotonin, as well as other hormones that regulate mood and reproduction.

[27:48] What Vitamin C Dosages Do We Need? * The Ministry of Health recommends 200 milligrammes a day for wellness. * Foods high in vitamin C, such as kiwi fruit, capsicum, and broccoli, are recommended. But only a few people eat a good range of fresh fruit and vegetables. * Margreet says if the aim of vitamin C intake is to alleviate illness, it is usually not achievable through our daily diet. * Each condition requires a different recommended intake.

[34:17] The Role of HIF Protein in Cancer * Hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF) is a transcription factor protein that switches genes on and off. * HIF is present in all cells at all times and responds to low levels of oxygen. * Under low oxygen levels, areas with poor blood vessels are provided with oxygen by generating new blood vessels. * Cancer cells hijack this mechanism to have their supply of blood vessels, making the cells grow more. * Hijacking the HIF protein also results in switching the cancer’s energy source to sugar.

[39:06] The Role of Vitamin C in Cancer * The HIF proteins need to be shut off to prevent cancer from worsening. * Enzymes that need vitamin C can switch off HIF proteins that need to be shut down, slowing down the tumour’s growth rate. * Though it is tough to prove preventive action, many cancer rates have significantly decreased to half when vitamin C status is good. * To maintain your well-being, keep vitamin C levels at optimum levels.

[45:07] Does Vitamin C Pose Any Risk? * Vitamin C’s oxidation products need to be cleared out of the body. * No toxic dose has been identified, provided you have good kidney function. * There is no actual risk of kidney stone formation and kidney injury. * People getting an infusion must be tested for kidney function.

[49:10] IV vs Oral Vitamin C Administration for Cancer * Any amount of oral vitamin C has not shown potential to benefit solid tumours. * Infusion is more advantageous than oral administration because it gets vitamin C to the core of the cancer to switch HIF protein off. * Margreet shares the story of Anton Kuria, a previous leukaemia patient on IV vitamin C who experienced remission for two years. * Vitamin C restored the normal functioning of the cells and wiped out most of the cancer cells. * He relapsed not because he stopped vitamin C but because the cancer cells acquired new mutations.

[59:30] How Vitamin C Contributes to Quality of Life * Vitamin C regulates adrenaline and boosts energy because it is key to making molecules that help energy production. * It also alleviates the side effects of chemotherapy. * Vitamin C also improves brain fog, concentration, mood, pain, nausea and fatigue. * It does not interfere with other cancer treatments.

[1:06:02] Applications in the Clinical Setting * Vitamin C is probably not going to kill cancer, but it can control it. * Vitamin C gives an insight on how to manage the disease in the clinic. * The excellent response to vitamin C is an opportunity to make it work better with other treatments. * There will almost certainly be a quality of life benefit. It can alleviate the side effects of cancer and the disease itself. * The beneficial effects manifest, so it is worth doing.

[1:16:56] What Needs to Be Done? * We need to figure out how to apply vitamin C clinically and under specific circumstances. * Give people the best information so that they can make the right choices. * With better information, clinicians can also make informed choices for the benefit of their patients.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘All of these things that cancers do to promote their survival is mediated by this response, and right at the center of this is the vitamin C off switch’.

‘Vitamin C is a very labile molecule, so very easily lost. And if you're not putting in more supply, then your body level is going to drop’.

‘If there's any wealthy people sitting out there, if you want to support this sort of research — it is absolutely essential because we're losing people left, right and center to these horrible diseases like cancer, like sepsis’.

‘I'm excited about this research, I really am, because it's going to save lives’.

‘That's why we try to do the research — because doctors have the patient's best interests at heart’.

‘Our clinical people, they’re at the coalface, and they're having to make life and choice decisions for their patients all the time’.

‘Many cancer rates significantly decreased by up to half for a number of cancers if your vitamin C status is good rather than bad’.

About Professor Vissers Professor Margreet Vissers is a biochemistry academic from Waikato University and is currently the Principal Investigator and Associate Dean (Research) at the University of Otago in Christchurch, New Zealand. She has written and published journals and books about how vitamin C can help cure and prevent cancer.

If you want to learn more about oxidative medicine from Professor Vissers, you may contact her at margreet.vissers@otago.ac.nz.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome everybody back to Pushing The Limits. This week I have Professor Margreet Vissers with me who is sitting in Christchurch. Now Professor Vissers, I'm just super excited. I'm a little bit nervous and excited to be talking to you today. Margreet, so can you tell us firstly, what your background is? Give us a little bit of context. You have a PhD done, free radical research and oxidant research from what I understand, and now you are very much deep into vitamin C research. Can you give us a bit of your background first?

Professor Margreet Vissers: Okay, yeah, yeah. Morena, Lisa. it's lovely to chat with you. I've trained originally as a biochemist. So when I was at Waikato University, I had this lecturer who kind of got me excited about biochemistry, it was a new thing at that time. And so I continued, that's become my passion, just understanding how things work in our bodies. So, I became interested in white blood cells. When I was doing my PhD, my PhD was on white blood cells that fight infections.

And something we know about white blood cells is that they need a lot of vitamin C. They have a lot of vitamin C and we never knew why. So, all our white blood cells have a lot of vitamin C. So, there was always this question as to why do they need that. And that kind of percolated away in the background while we were researching other things. And then one day, these experiments where you added vitamin C and to kind of knock out any oxidant fixed because it's a well-known antioxidant. And it has this remarkable effects on the cells that I was working with which was the complete opposite of what I had expected. And when this happens in the lab, you usually think, ‘Are my samples in the wrong way’? I've got the best hunches.

So instead of acting as an antioxidant, it seemed to be enabling cell death. And which was like really paradoxical. And, and so we did it again. And you know, same thing happened again. And not only was it a really strong effect, which antioxidants usually are, they're usually more graded. It was also an on-off event. So, if there was no vitamin C, it didn't happen. And if there was just a bit, it happened really well.

And so we're looking for another activity. This is not an antioxidant, actually. We're looking for a different kind of function. And so this was in about 2001. And at the same time—so that wasn't work with white blood cells, that I was doing that, and that was a cancer work.

And so, around about the same time, there was a discovery made overseas about this new class of enzymes that regulates hypoxia, the hypoxic responses, survival response, and that those enzymes require vitamin C to function. And I realized that what I’d—because I've been gone on thinking, ‘If it causes cells to die. Maybe it does this in white blood cells because that's the one thing that we need our white blood cells to do’. Apart from kill bacteria, we then need them to die themselves off.

Lisa: Yes.

Prof. Margreet: And to die tidally. Without, we need them to devastate the tissues around. It's a very controlled process. And I thought, ‘Maybe that's what vitamin C is doing in the cell. That it’s regulating the cell death pathway’. And so I did these experiments with white blood cells that didn't have any vitamin C and essentially showed that exactly to be true. That if white blood cells were low in vitamin C, they did not go on to resolve this what would be the end of an infection. So…

Lisa: So they wouldn't end up...

Prof. Margreet: They would end up. So, normally you have your white blood cells that kill the bacteria. They then destroy themselves in that process, because it's an endpoint reaction, and we need to clear those white cells. And so you need to clear them. They're full of all kinds of toxic things. You need to clear them in a way that doesn't spill all that toxicity into the tissues. Other white blood cells come along and eat those white blood cells. So they—it's like wrapping your garbage.

So that if they didn't have vitamin C, that didn't happen. So, the other white blood cells would come in, but they basically couldn't see those other cells around them. And so they get the cell death and cell leakage. And I thought, ‘Ah, so scary. There's all kinds of things that happen when you're low in vitamin C’. And so this, and then I realized also that actually, this factor that controls this process, is also the thing that allows cancer cells to grow. And, and so this is a normal response in ourselves, and we need it for survival. You know, I swear, every day survival is dependent on this process working well.

Cancer cells hijack the system to enable them to survive. And so, that means that it allows them to grow outside of an oxygen supply to make new blood vessels, to create a different energy source, so they can live on sugar instead of a more complex energy. It enables them to evade chemotherapy and enables them to undergo metastasis. All of these things that cancers do to promote their survival is mediated by this response, and right at the center of this is vitamin C off switch.

Lisa: Code that. So can we just pick up just a tad there. So, I've listened to a lecture by Dr. Berry Fowler that we mentioned earlier, talking about NETs, Neutrophil Extracellular Traps. So, is that what we're talking about here? So the neutrophils are coming along, eating the bugs?

Prof. Margreet: That's a variation on that thing. So yes, neutrophils are astounding cells. And so, their function is to kill bacteria. The primary way that they do that—so they are attracted to any place where there's an infection. The primary way that they act is to first of all, eat the bacterium so that one neutrophil can swallow hundreds of bacteria. And then inside that pocket inside themselves, they pour onto those bugs within minutes, toxic enzymes and oxidants, including chlorine bleach that kills the bug.

So, what they also do is they can inject from themselves, from the cell, they can inject their DNA. They can kind of melt the nucleus inside the cell with the DNA package. They can unpackage that, and then they can inject that from the cells, and that's what we call a niche. And that niche is coated with some of those microbicidal proteins. DNA is, as you might have seen pictures of it, that's a really sticky line…

Lisa: Yes, like egg white.

Prof. Margreet: …molecule. And so that can basically go a long way, and it doesn't degrade very easily. So, your body doesn't have a lot of DNAs floating around that can chew up DNA. So, these traps can sit there and they trap the back. They literally physically trap the bacteria onto the site of the infection. So, that can basically help localize that infection so that it's not traveling to other parts of the body.

Lisa: Does it even cause things like, if this infection was, say in the lungs, you'd get whiteout and that's the whiteout. Actually, what you're saying…

Prof. Margreeet: The whiteout in the lungs is either lots of neutrophils, just a lot of neutrophils, or a lot of fluid. Where we're seeing new neutrophil NETs, or their traps, and in the lungs as in COVID patients. So, there are these peculiar things going on in the lungs of COVID patients, where they're seeing quite localized and didn't wash out. So, not the kind of diffused whiteout that you see in a pneumonia, someone with respiratory distress, but very localized pockets. And we think that looking like, as all this information’s unfolding pretty much as we speak. It looks like neutrophil NETs central to that process that enhances that cytokine storm in COVID patients who end up with severe disease. So currently, the literature is jumping with…

Lisa: With vitamin C, and what would be helpful or not in the COVID scenario? No one's know it yet?

Prof. Margreet: No, it's not jumping with vitamin C and COVID. The Chinese, interestingly, published protocols for how to handle COVID patients. And they have they recommend, as soon as the patient comes into, into the hospital, should be giving them intravenous vitamin Cl to keep them out of ICU. And, or as soon as they get into ICU, to prevent them progressing. They've got very careful protocols about… Actually, their protocols say that helps. This is definitely a helpful step. We haven't taken that up, the rest of the world, despite some people advocating for it.

Lisa: So why would that be? Is it because… or we don't want to go into that?

Prof. Margreet: That's a very good question. I've struggled with answering that question we come up against it all the time. That people will give vitamin D before they get vitamin C. Even though people have been—we've shown that patients who are really ill, have low vitamin C, unless you give them more.

Lisa: So, the sicker we get, the more vitamin C—and I've seen some of your lectures where you've shown graphs of people coming into hospital, and then the levels of plasma vitamin C are very low compared to the generally well, population. And I know from other research that I've done too, in this case, like my father's with sepsis. He would have been probably at the level of scurvy. I can't show that because they couldn't explore it, and would have been needing massive dosages of vitamin C. So the sicker we are… so, this is what's funny people is that animals produce their own vitamin C. The goat is the king of vitamin C making. I believe from Linus Pauling’s work. And the goat can produce up to 70 grams a day of vitamin C. We don't

Prof. Margreet: So yes. All animals bear a few, make their own vitamin C in the liver, and some animals in the kidneys. There's a few miscellaneous animals, including all primates, of which we have one—so, chimpanzees and gorillas and monkeys in us, who way back, lost the gene to make it. And so we're dependent on eating it. Guinea pigs similar, and fruit bats are the other most common species.

So, we're dependent on eating it for our supply. Now, all animals that make their own, make it according to demand. So, they keep their blood level saturated, no matter what. So if they get sick, and their body starting to consume more, their liver makes more. And so they just keep themselves saturated. And they can increase production up to 100 times, in order to maintain that level. So we can't do that. So we're totally dependent on what we put in our mouth.

And so, once we get sick, and our bodies consuming more, if we're not compensating for that, then our body levels will decline. So it's totally about supply and demand. So, when you're normally well, your body's just ticking over a little bit. A good diet is good to keep you optimal under those circumstances. You get a cold, you're consuming a little bit more. Now most people, when they get a cold, they run off and get some citrus or something because that's what that feels like eating them naturally. If you get a flu, that demand goes out even more. If you get pneumonia, it goes up even more. And so the sicker you are, the more vitamin C your body's consuming. Not all. Some illnesses are more oxidative than others.

But any infection, like the minute you ramp that up, and that can be like a local infection. It can be burn infection. So it doesn't have to be like a whole body infection. We just recently did this—have been doing a study with people with chronic wounds like leg ulcers, and most of those people have low vitamin C status. And that won't be helping the wound. So as soon as your body has a demand to put on it, vitamin C is a very labile molecule, so very easily lost. And if you're not putting in more supply, then your body level is going to drop.

Lisa: And then we're also limited out with the oral administration of vitamin C. Our bowels can only tolerate, before we get diarrhea, or something like that. So if our power intake to the levels that we might need if we were severely ill, we wouldn't get up—because our plasma levels only go to 100 micromolar from what I understand. We can't actually get higher than that from all dosing.

Prof. Margreet: Oh well, only a little bit transiently. So, if you wouldn't take a one gram tablet, your plasma level would go up to above 100 for a little while. So maybe that might get up to 150. But your kidneys will clear that. And so I always kind of give the analogy of a dry sponge. So if you imagine that you're pouring water on a dry sponge, that your body is... Your blood is only the delivery mechanism, so vitamin C is going to get from your blood into the cells. If your blood levels are low, your tissue levels will be low. So that's a dry sponge.

So if you pour more vitamin C onto there, it will go into circulation. But as soon as it's in the blood supply, it will be sucked out into those tissues. So your kidneys will never see that above 100 micromolar. Once your tissues are saturated, so the whole sponges which you might, if you pour more on and then you touch, and then your blood supply goes up over 100, stays over 100 because your tissues are not taking up any more than they need. Then there's a filter in the kidneys that regulates that all vitamin C passes out, and then it's like, ‘How much is in the bloodstream’? ‘Do I need any more’? ‘And then I'll take it back up’. So it gets taken back up or not. And if the body's got enough, then no more be taken up and end up down the toilet which is fine.

Lisa: Yes, it's not going to hurt you. But if so, then intravenous vitamin C has a different mechanism though, isn't it? We can get the micromotors up quite high.

Prof. Margreet: Intravenous delivery is such fast, express delivery. And so it's to be what—it can do two things. What we think, it can be useful in under two circumstances. So normally for your day to day health, oral intake, this is ample. If you are really—a lot people in ICU, or who are people with severe pneumonia who are turning over vitamin C at a great rate, it's really hard to get like you might need to give those people seven or eight grams of vitamin C a day, in order to restore, get their plasma level sit close to normal. So it's hard to give that amount of oral intake to people who are that sick.

And so under those circumstances, the easiest thing to do is just to inject that, and that's what we call infusion. So then you bypass the gut, you can just infuse it straight into the circulation. And the rate of infusion determines that that plasma level will be very high for a very short time, then it will go out into the body where it needs to be. And any excess will pass out. And then urine. So after about eight or nine hours, you're back to normal. But your tissues, your sponges.

Lisa: Yes, so that they are in what they need. The vitamin C that's actually in the cell will stay around longer than, won't it? And do its actual job, if it's in the mix.

Prof. Margreet: It's doing its job, that’s right. So those cells that had become depleted and now have a function restored. And what we've discovered is, it's not just one function anymore. So in the last 10 years, vitamin C has been shown to be involved in supporting... So initially there—everyone will know about... Walk into any chemist and you'll see vitamin C creams for sale, cosmetics. Rub it on your face, or whatever. But because we all believe that vitamin C is good for our skin. And it is good for your skin, actually. It's really good for your skin. But getting a few rubber done, it doesn't actually get into your skin when you rub it on.

Lisa: Right. Don't waste your money on expensive cream.

Prof. Margreets: We know that... That's right. We know that it makes collagen juicy. So the enzyme that makes collagen, that needs vitamin C to work, was the first member of a family. Of about at the moment, there's about 60 members of this family. So, and apart from making collagen, they do all kinds of other things. So including regulate all about gene expression. So what we've discovered is that, it's really important to support enzymes that determine how your cell function changes. So…

Lisa: It reads the DNA so to speak. So this enzyme, one of these enzymes..

Prof. Margreet: These enzymes apply or remove marks from the DNA that say, ‘Read this gene, or don't read this gene’. And that's changing all the time. As cells respond to different stresses in different scenarios, and go through different growth phases. And vitamin C turns out, is absolutely critical for that process to be working well. And so you know, sort of…

Lisa: This kind of fit everything in the body. Pretty much like every single cell in your body.

Prof. Margreet: To greater and lesser extent. And so that said, that's at the most fundamental level. It seems that that process is actually quite extraordinarily sensitive to changes in Vitamin C. So, I kind of make the analogy, about a car running, when running on three cylinders, or two cylinders, instead of four cylinders. Yeah, you can still get it to go along the road. But, you know you're not getting the best ride…

Lisa: Not the best of your motor.

Prof. Margreet: ...that you might get. And so you know, it is we're discovering so many things, so many fundamental processes that require vitamin C to work optimally. And also that they are responsive to small changes— relatively small changes in vitamin C status. So there are mood enhancing enzymes that do the same thing. We've just published a study with students from Otago, who are all extremely well. Probably one of the wealthiest populations we've ever studied but they don't eat well. When we gave them kiwi fruit today, it just brought their vitamin C levels up. They felt well, then they’re already well.

Lisa: They're already healthy. They don't have...

Prof. Margreet: They are surely well. So, they were—and even not at the extremes of deficiency. So it's like you can… we should be where animals are—optimal all the time.

The dialogue around vitamin C for decades and decades was about avoiding deficiency. The only thing that became a problem was when you had scurvy, and were dying, and anything else was fine. And so what we're discovering now is that—it’s not fine. You need to be the best you can be in order to avoid all kinds of scenarios. So it's…

Lisa: It's about optimizing…

Prof. Margreet: Probably the most, of all the vitamins that we've—well actually, vitamin B6 has a very fundamental… But probably the most diverse in that section of all the vitamins. So it's doing many things, in many places that affects an awful lot of functions.

Lisa: So we're talking like inflammation, wound healing, infectious states, and controlling infection. We're talking about skin collagen production...

Prof. Margreet: Absolutely, our brain is loaded with vitamin C.

Lisa: Well, it is one of the biggest users of the vitamin C.

Prof. Margreet: Yes, yes. So it's… Our brain is very hungry for vitamin C. So it's near for many reasons, including the support of molecule size serotonin, which is like your feel good moods. The production of other hormones that regulate mood reproduction.

Lisa: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Prof. Margreet: The list goes on and on.

Lisa: My mind just goes wow. This could help with things like brain injuries, which I'm heavily into helping...

Prof. Margreet: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Lisa: And RDA is one of the lowest in the world, isn't it? It is 45, I think milligrams or something ridiculous. That is not okay. Why can't we get this changed? You know we need 200 to 500 at least, don't we?

Prof. Margreet: Yeah, there is a recommendation from the Ministry of Health that 200 milligrams a day as the recommended target for wellness. But RDAs are a confusing measure because they're actually the number at which 90% of people will avoid deficiency. So which is, right at the bottom, what do we need, in order to not die, basically? And so that message gets a little bit confused with, ‘This is how much we need, total’. And so 45 milligrams a day is, most countries around the world have up to the limit to at least double federal muster around 100, which is still in the minimum. But we just want bet our aims to get the New Zealand RDA…

Lisa: So maybe say one of your cats in a… I think it was work by Dr. Levine or [29:00] Maggie’s showing the rates from the 45 milligrams type thing up to 2.5 grams a day. It was a steep curve. Well, 50 milligrams in 500, where you get a huge benefit and then, even if you wanted to optimize, you could go even up to two and a half.

And of course then if you have one, oh no some horrible disease, or you have a lot of stress, or you have cognitive issues, or you have sepsis, or you have pneumonia, and then you may need like up to I don't know how many times. And that's one of the questions, isn't it? That you are trying to elucidate is that, ‘What are the dosages that we need’?

Prof. Margreet: That’s right, and I think we were hoping to hit, as instead of seating a whole new RDA for everything, is to have a recommended intake for different conditions.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Prof. Margreet: So that you'd know if you hit a few, or if you do have a medical challenge of some sort. They use vitamin C infusions for burns patients.

Lisa: Yes.

Prof. Margreet: Because we know that burns patients chew through vitamin C. So that kind of massive inflammatory response does require your body who needs to be given a lot more vitamin C. So there is your, I can recommend it to intake for burns patients.

Well, if we knew that, when you have the flu, ‘Here's your recommended intake’. But when you have, if you have issues with this or that, you should be taking this amount. So which I think might be easier for people to get their head around than just one level, because we think that if we sit a daily intake aimed at alleviating illness, then that's normally not that achievable through our daily diet. And so you can't see it as an unachievable target for people to take vitamin C that they can't get from their diet because... So we always recommend food first and that is, so, 200 milligrams a day is what you would get if you did as you were told, an eight five plus. One of those five of the high vitamin C food, then you'll be fine.

Lisa: You're in the range.

Prof. Margreet: So easily. So one kiwifruit, or some capsicum or a good amount of broccoli, or just if you can mix it up. But if you are eating a good range of fresh fruit and vegetables, you would be there.

Lisa: But if you're eating just bananas or something that is on the five a day, but isn’t high on the vitamin C level, you won't be meeting those recommendations. So we need to get a little bit more specific.

I want to go now into the cancer story, because I know like in the 1970s, Linus Pauling, who was a brilliant man, double Nobel Prize-winning scientist, sort of jumped in two feet first—if you like—with cancer. His studies that he did with cancer and vitamin C have extended the lives of these cancer patients that he was dealing with, four times as long.

But he sort of started a storm—if you like—of controversy, because back then there was no mechanism of action that was understood as, ‘How could this be happening’? And from there, it was sort of, plucked out of the year. Where is this vitamin C thing’?

You and your colleagues around the world have now sort of elucidated some of the mechanisms of action, and actually given some validity to what Linus Pauling was saying and later researchers.

So now if we go into the cancer story, there's still—I mean I've lost two friends this week to cancer. We desperately need this research to be completed or furthered fast. So if there's any wealthy people sitting out there, if you want to support this sort of research, and is absolutely essential, because we're losing people left and right to these horrible diseases like cancer, like sepsis. We know that they're going to be beneficial. But you've actually discovered, so the HIF. I wanted to talk about the HIF protein… the HIF-1.

Prof. Margreet: Yeah, that's the protein that I was mentioning…

Lisa: Yes, earlier when I'm…

Prof. Margreet: It’s also active in the white blood cells.

Lisa: Yes. Can you explain what the HIF protein does in regards to tumor growth, and why vitamin C is so important in regards to that.

Prf. Margreet: Okay. So what is that, that's an acronym for Hypoxia-inducible Factor. Scientists are great at giving meaningless acronyms to meaningless terms. So, it’s a protein, it's what we call a transcription factor protein. So it's a protein that travels to the DNA, and switches genes on and off. These are master regulations proteins in these families of transcription factors.

So HIF is a major transcription factor that is present in all our cells all the time. Its role is to respond to low levels of oxygen. And so, if for some reason our oxygen supply is cut off. For example, if you had a tourniquet applied to a part of the end, and you cut off your blood supply, those cells in that tissue would get hypoxic. We need that not to die off. We need that to survive, that tissues, that when you restore the blood supply, that everything's actually fine. That's the normal function of the HIF protein, under conditions of low oxygen, just switch on a survival response.

It also does that, if you know has a lot of responses to basically regulate oxygen around your body. So it will, in areas where there are poor blood vessels, it will regenerate new blood vessel formation. You can't live without this protein. So we can't generate an animal that doesn't have it, doesn't survive beyond birth.

So this process is hijacked by cancer cells. So if you imagine, you will have seen pictures of a growing tumor starts off as a few cells. When that tumor, when that little clump of cells gets to be two millimeters across, it's very small, that doesn't have its own blood supply. And no oxygen will get to them, will get to the center cells, and they'll die. And this two millimeter tumor will die off. So but what happens when those cells run out of oxygen, because they switch on this HIF protein. And so when that switched on, those cancer cells now say, ‘Aha, I can make new blood vessels’.

Lisa: They grow.

Prof. Margreet: And it does that, it makes new blood vessels, can grow bigger. And as it grows bigger, every time it starts to run out of oxygen in the center, it makes new blood vessels. And so the tumor can grow, and grow, and grow. As well as switching on that formation of new blood vessels, it also turns those cancer cells into, ‘If I'm not getting enough oxygen, I need to get my energy from sugar now. I can't use our oxidative mechanism of energy creation’. So they become glycolytic. So then they start to depend on sugar for energy. We know that this is a property of tumors, that they're totally switched on to that. And when they get switched on to that, they stay on that. And so then they're able to become acidic, and they get all of these properties that cancer cells have. And it's all switched on initially by this protein.

And so the more HIF is expressed in your cancer cells, the worse off—the better off the cancer is, and the worse off patient is. So there's a huge effort being put on to trying to switch HIF off than cancer cells. Unfortunately, switching it off is not as easy as switching it on. And because it's switched off by a mechanism you have to turn on. And so the turning on of that mechanism requires either supplying of these enzymes. The switching off of HIF is done by these enzymes that need vitamin C. So when you supply vitamin C, you're then supplying energy to the off switch. And the off switch will dampen down that tough response. So that means doesn't come on as easily, you know, much how you keep it going...

Lisa: Not grow as fast...

Prof. Margreet: And the HIF is ramped down and the cancer will grow more slowly. So that's one mechanism that we have now very good evidence for, indicating that giving vitamin C to cancer cells…

Lisa: Slow tumor growth treatment

Prof. Margreet: … is a really good idea.

Lisa: So this, I saw another one of the charts with the mouse model that you had on the tumor growth showing the ones who had the vitamin C, the tumor growth was much slower than the ones who didn't, so that was because the HIF was switched—in effect switched off by the vitamin C.

Well, I'm excited about this research, I really am. Because it's going to save lives. And this is the whole point of the call. And I don’t know if this conversation gets a little bit scientific, but hang in there with us people because this stuff's really important for life.

So can this prevent cancer? So if I want to be prophylactic, I want to be like, I don't want I've got cancer, perhaps genetically in the family, and I've got a higher risk. Can I take higher dosages of vitamin C with the hope of keeping the HIF from ever been switched on? Would that mean...

Prof. Margreet: We know that having optimal vitamin C makes it harder to switch that HIF on. The other thing we know, it's very hard to prove any kind of preventative action, because you need to have huge studies to do that, with thousands of people. Those studies that… there's a lot of epidemiological work out there that has looked at people's vitamin C status, and their susceptibility to different cancers. And so, but there can be many factors can play a part in that, and we don't know whether that's just the HIF, or whether that's a boost in your immune surveillance, or whatever functions there may be. But many cancer rates significantly decreased by up to half for a number of cancers, if your vitamin C status is good rather than bad.

Lisa: Wow. Being over the 50 micromolar level...

Prof. Margreet: Yes. So if you’re—people who are that kick themselves to optimal level, have lower incidences of many diseases, actually. And they live longer, and just all measures of well-being are improved. But they also have much lower cancer rates.

Lisa: Wow, so there's a reason, even if we don't have the whole answer yet for dosages and so on, would be to keep your vitamin C levels at the optimum, not at the minimum, your entire life, if that’s possible. What you mentioned before that there is a technology that's perhaps underway, that will be able to just, with a fingerprint, a prick of blood, be able to tell us what is in our blood, that would be amazing. I want one of those exactly where we are.

Prof. Margreet: I think your doctor’s surgery once…

Lisa: Yes, they definitely don't, because that would be just gold. I mean, in a situation like with my dad at the hospital, I couldn't get a vitamin C test to prove that he had a nutrient deficiency and so therefore, didn't treat the nutrient deficiency because I couldn't do the test.

Prof. Margreet: Yeah, it's very difficult. It's a very… it's not an easy test to do. And so a lot of standard labs don't do it regularly. So you got to be fussy with the blood sample. And it's often a challenge in a clinical setting.

Lisa: Okay, I hope that they do manage to do this because this would be very beneficial for everybody's health, because it's everything from heart disease to blood—we mentioned collagen to having good skin, to all of these sorts of things. But we would be well advised to make sure that we are getting our optimal vitamin C dose.

Is there a danger, like I’ll be completely upfront, I have an intravenous vitamin C once a week at the moment and my mum's on it for once a week. I won’t keep that up forever. I'm also taking oral vitamin C as well. I usually take between two and four grams a day, and I'm not saying that I recommend that for anybody but that's just what I'm doing because I want to... There is no toxicity with vitamin C, is there? There's no risk, I mean on one hand an expensive way but that's...

Prof. Margreet: Yes well. No, no toxic dose has never been identified, provided you have good kidney function. So you do need to be on the clear. If you can't clear it, or if you're dehydrated, and you're not producing any urine, you'd need to be on the clear because it will oxidize in your body. And when it does, those oxidation products need to be cleared out. And so you know it is, that’s the waiver.

So your body clears it to 100 micromolar for a reason because you don't actually want to have massive amounts running around all the time. And providing your tissues is saturated, any additional excess that you put on, it's not going anywhere, just going out.

Lisa: So I had down Dr. Ron Hunninghake on the podcast a couple of weeks ago there. He's a doctor from the Riordan Institute. I don't know if you know the Riordan Institute. And he said he's overseen personally as a doctor over 200,000 IV, vitamin C sessions, if you'd like. And I said to him, ‘Well, you know, one of the arguments that I face with doctors with my dad, was that it could damage his kidneys’. Apart from the fact that they did damage your kidneys too, which was my argument back. They said that kidney stones could be an issue. And that was one of the problems.

Dr. Hunninghake, I posed that question to him. And he said in his 200,000 IVs, he's had three people with kidney stones, but they all had them previously. And he doesn't think there is—again, he hasn't done the clinical studies—but he doesn't think that there is a huge risk for kidney stone formation that is also dependent on the calcium being in the kidneys from what I understand. So that that is one of the arguments. That is…

Prof. Margreet: That's right. Yes. Because it’s the thing you will hear. It’s the first reason why you wouldn't want to take vitamin C. And I think we are trying to… it is important that you can clear it. So you do need, and I think for, rather than causing kidney injury, you don't—You need a functioning kidney. You need functioning kidneys to clear it. Otherwise, you will end up with problems. But anyone who's given an infusion is usually tested or checked for that. But...

Lisa: Or in a case, like with dad’s, there wasn't any option. So like, it was that or nothing. He wasn't going to survive.

Prof. Margreet: You only need to clear... as long as you're making urine. Unless your body is, as you know, completely deficient. It is something that you need to lift. So it's a little bit… do say to people… if our patients are dehydrated, we give them a drink, right? Because we give them fluids if they're dehydrated, we give them fluids. So if your body is missing something that it's supposed to have to function, should give them some.

Lisa: Yes, it would be a simple thing, especially if we can test it.

Prof. Margreet: It would not, it's not a big deal, really, to give them some. I think the cancer story is a little more complex than that. Because what we think with solid tumors is that, because any amount of oral vitamin C has not been shown to benefit solid tumors paricularly. And what our hypothesis was, is that if you give intravenous vitamin C, you achieve a higher level in the plasma. So you're basically trying to get the vitamin C to the place where the vasculature is poor, which is that hypoxic center of the tumor. The oxygen can't get to because the blood vessels are poor, vitamin C can't get there either. And you need both to get there. So…

Lisa: To kill the chamber basically,

Prof. Margreet: ...to switch that HIF off in that place. So we think that if you give infusions, then that increased dose actually gets to that core of the tumor.

Lisa: And this is where?

Prof. Margreet: So this is where an infusion is an advantage than oral vitamin C. This is where Linus Pauling got into, where he got into strife bit, and he was giving intravenous doses. He maintained that they had an additional benefit. The conditions at the time, didn't believe that. And they repeated his experiments with oral dosing, and found it to have no effect. And so he didn't, that time we didn't know about half, and he didn't. So he was arguing back and forth. And so it just became a bun fight, actually. There was no resolution, and a lot of acrimony, and never did the cause any good for him, or the clinicians either, and certainly not the patients.

Lisa: This is such a shame, really, because it is also something.

Prof. Margreet: So, kind of tone was set at that time. And, and it's taking a long time to pick that conversation. I think now we have not only the health mechanism, but we have these epigenetic, or the genetic regulatory enzymes that are also involved in many cancers. And in fact in a number of cancers, those enzymes are the mutated enzyme. They're the mutation in those enzymes that will drive the cancer. It's very common in hematological cancers, common in some glioblastoma, so brain cancer, and bowel cancer.

So there are two mechanisms whereby vitamin C might work. And so, we have just recently shown with myeloid leukemia that if you have a mutation in that enzyme, and you give additional vitamin C to those cancer cells, then… So if you have a mutation, you have two copies of every enzyme. If you take one out, 50% left. That 50% is trying to do the job at a hundred percent, and it isn't able to. So if that enzyme, that last 50% needs vitamin C given a vitamin C boost, within upping its level, you can upregulate it. And we think that it's now restoring normal function to those—they didn’t stop behaving like cancer cells...

Lisa: And actually...

Prof. Margreet: ...and just behave like normal cells. And so this would be a great treatment adjunct for chemotherapy. Famous illogical cancers, because you now have cells that would respond normally rather than be these aberrant, crazy cells.

Lisa: I know that you had a case, so I won't mention the name in case and that's not okay. But I know that you…

Prof. Margreet: Oh, it is okay to mention the name. Because Anton's family have actually asked me to mention his name.

Lisa: Okay. So yes, I heard about Anton Kuraia's journey with leukaemia and how he had intravenous vitamin C, and that put him into remission. And he unfortunately lapsed later on and if you pick up the story there, but you got a tissue analysis, or you managed to get some tissue when he relapsed later on. In the two enzymes, the TT2, is it? And the W . . .

Prof. Margreet: That's one of these enzymes. So Anton is the case that we've learned a lot. And he, very generously when he read that… So he had this turn around, like a miracle response to vitamin C. And which really piqued our interest at the time we didn't know about the TT enzymes, and I almost lost my money on that. And thought, he wouldn't surprise me if he had one of these mutations, but he was in complete remission for two and a half years. And while he maintained a vitamin C regime, so he was taking it continued with intravenous vitamin C, each injectable, for couple of weeks, or something during that time. And when I spoke with him, I said, ‘You know what? I'd really like is I'd like to figure out just why this has happened and lapsed some of your cancer cells. But you haven’t got any sign’, which is great.

Lisa: Yes, which is great.

Prof. Margreet: And we had no idea, quite what was going on, and how long that remission would hold for. And, unfortunately, two and a half years later, he relapsed. But at that point he said, ‘You know how you wanted some cancer cells? Well, I have some, and I don't want to know that’. But he pushed through and sent us a sample. And it was of his bone marrow, which, we had one sample, and I'm like, ‘Well, we need to think about what we do with this one’. We had a really good plan. And, and we managed to get a bit of funding from the local bone marrow cancer research trust for a project. And they're like, ‘If you got a good project’, and I’m like, ‘I do actually have a really good project’.

So I put a young post-doc onto that, who has been absolutely marvelous, and together with the clinicians in Auckland, we tracked down the risks of Anton samples that were in the Auckland clinic, and ran the DNA analysis, the genetic analysis on his cancer, and discovered that he had not one but two mutations that involved a requirement for TET2 activity. And so both of the clients, so myeloid leukaemia is a clonal disease. One clone can have one mutation, another clone can have another mutation or both. They're two clones, each one with a mutation that required TET2 or a feature TET2 activity. Both of those clones were wiped out by the vitamin C.

Lisa: Wow. So they kicked them alive?

Prof. Margreet: Yes, yes. But what we discovered was that, that didn't wipe out the cells completely because that one of the clones came back.

Lisa: Was it because he stopped the vitamin C, like if…

Prof. Margreet: What we discovered was that when it came back, that clone had acquired additional mutations, as they do often. And so cancers do that, they cause you to be more and more aberrant as it continues. So the original mutation was still there, but so were additional mutations. And so the second time around, the vitamin C treatment worked a little bit. It seemed like it was trying to work. He went and had more chemotherapy. And then that didn't work, got sent home again. With weeks to live anyway, back onto the vitamin C, and got better. But the blood cell count never came down to zero again, and…

Lisa: So basically the cancer was stronger the second time with more aberrant mutations.

Prof. Margreet: Yes. But he didn't, he didn't seem to know what's going on. But my gut has got really good.

Lisa: So something was, so that brings in the quality of life because that's proven, isn't it? If you're having to have chemotherapy, and having vitamin C can be very beneficial for quality of life. Least fatigue, least nausea, all of those sorts of horrible things that happened to poor chemo patients can be...

Prof. Margreet: That’s a story we believe, of just replenishing the depleted supply in your body. So basically, you're giving your body these toxic cocktails, you're expecting your body to function, and then respond. And at the same time that's running out of a vital nutrient. And so if you, if you can restore that, then your fatigue levels… so one of the things that vitamin C does is it supports the promotion of energy. So it regulates adrenaline. Absolutely key to making adrenaline, to making molecules that support energy production, energy metabolism.

And so, if you're starting to run low on those things at the same time as you're undergoing the chemotherapy, what can be written off as a side effect of the chemotherapy can be alleviated. A few can restore some of those normal functions. So a lot of the kind of brain fog, things, ability to concentrate, mood things, pain, and nausea and fatigue, a lot of the measures improve.

Lisa: Wow. So that alone is a reason to be considering it.

Prof. Margreet: It's a very important consideration.

Lisa: Absolutely, it’s quality of life.

Prof. Margreet: Absolutely, as far as we can tell, it does not interfere with any other cancer treatments. Because that's the other worry that people have, doctors have, that, ‘I don't know, because it might interfere with the treatment I'm trying to give you for your cancer’.

Lisa: And this is a problem when people go to their oncologist, their local oncologist. They’d be saying, ‘Don't do vitamin C’. This is why this information is so key to be able to share it.

Prof. Margreet: Well, that's why we tried to do the research. Because doctors have the patient's best interests at heart. And they worry when patients come in and say, ‘You know, should I take this? Can I take that’?and they're throwing everything they can at the cancer. And they worry that something else that you’re doing might work against that. And so they are always very cautious and rightly so. Because we want our doctors to be working from evidence, from an evidence base.

And currently, we don't have those answers here. That we can absolutely say… I mean, this is why we're working so hard to try and identify the causes, and how vitamin C is working. So that then we can give that information to the clinicians, who can then put that together with their patient information and say, ‘Well, for you on this drug, this will be fine. You do that, you know, and in fact, it will help with this and this and this’. So or, ‘Under these circumstances, now, I'd rather you didn't do that, until you've got this out of the way’, or whatever. So we can manage better advice and give patients an idea as to what they can expect.

So like, with the haematological patients, we’re starting to identify what genetic subgroups of the cancer might respond. So then you might be able to say to you, to a cancer patient, ‘Looks like you've got this mutation. This is very likely to be helpful for you’, or ‘It looks like you don't have this mutation. It's unlikely that it's going to help you. You can try, but it's unlikely’. So we can be a little bit more…

Lisa: more nuanced?

Prof. Margreet: …real, rather than just a kind of blanket response.

Lisa: The hard thing is and when people are in dire straits. You haven't got the luxury of waiting another 10 years perhaps until the research is done. And so you're in this catch 22 type of situation. And you have to, as a patient or looking after a loved one, sometimes make calls on the direction that you are going to go based on this that you acknowledge without actually having 100% proof in. This is an argument that nobody can really win because I mean, it's a really tough situation.

And I certainly, with it with my dad, but in with my mum's story as well. And so I understand the frustration of people and what they’re going. But with Anton for example, he obviously went and got the intravenous vitamin C, prior to it being proven to help, and it obviously gave him a few more years.

Prof. Margreet: That's right. And at the moment, we're at the point where we're learning a lot from patients like that. If he hadn't done that, he hadn't done that, no one would have done it. And we wouldn't know what we know now. And we're learning from other patients like that, as well. So let's see…

Lisa: Anecdote versus...

Prof. Margreet: So there is anecdotal evidence, what I say to people and often get asked by cancer patients, ‘Should I do this or not’? One of the things that we're learning and we've learned, we are moving the story forward. The things that we've learned, even from Anton's case, is that vitamin C is not probably not going to kill your cancer. So in his case, even when he went into complete remission, the vitamin C was controlling his cancer. That was it. It didn't eliminate it. So that knowledge is gold.

Lisa: Yes. Actually.

Prof. Margreet: And because that gives us an insight into how we might manage that in the clinic. If we were going to do this in the clinic. We would know that if we're seeing a response from a cancer patient, we're seeing a good response to vitamin C, there’s an opportunity. It buys you more time. But it can give us insights into how we might work better than with other treatments. So that information is gold.

The one thing that you know, I can understand entirely how any individual cancer patients like, ‘Well, I need the answer now. I have this in my own life, with my husband. I'm not waiting for the research. I’m not going to wait for that’.

Lisa: Exactly.

Prof. Margreet: ‘You need to announce it now’. But suddenly my priorities can then change upfront. I now have voice inside and I want, ‘We want an answer now’. And so, as far as, you know, the vitamin C treatment does, I often think, ‘Well, what would I do myself’? And I think from what we know now, knowing that, we know, there will be a quality of life benefit. Almost certainly. And that in itself would be worth raising payment for. So just to alleviate, as many of the horrible scientific treatments, and the disease itself.

Secondly, is that, if what we know is that if you are going to see a benefit from vitamin C infusions in cancer, you would see it quite quickly. So, this is not something that would take months and months to manifest. So, if it were doing something, you would notice something quite, quite soon. I mean, Anton's case was quite remarkable. In a case with a cancer like that, within two weeks he was beating it. Nearly tears.

Lisa: From nearly dead to better.

Prof. Margreet: A month later, he had a bone marrow biopsy taken. And he was back to normal. So if it's going to work, and I think even with a solid tumor, if it were having a beneficial effect, you will know quite quickly.

Lisa: So it's worth doing.

Prof. Margreet: So if you wanted to try, then you first try, but you have to pay to try.

Lisa: You have to find a doctor to do it.

Prof. Margreet: So it is, there are good people around who . . . It’s an unproven treatment.

Lisa: And that's what you're working on.

Prof. Margreet: And so, we're trying to move that story forward. It's inordinately slow.

Lisa: And it's a shame that the arguments, or the problems, the controversy that has surrounded the original research, if you like, has colored some of the reactions you get, now. You get this polarizing effect that hopefully reason will calm things down eventually. We can just talk about the scientific evidence, the evidence, the evidence, the evidence. And then perhaps we can just bring it back down to a non-emotional level. Because as a loved one who's just lost somebody, because I believe we could have had a chance to get him back, my dear back, if we had had access to vitamin C from day one, but not day 14. It's hard not to be emotional about that.

Prof. Margreet: Absolutely. It really is. And I can understand that entirely. And this is why we're not giving up.

Lisa: Yes. But it's so important, the size, it’s so important.

Prof. Margreet: But the controversy around this is what it is. I’m trying very hard to walk a line between that were drawn by either side. And my argument is always, for what do we actually know, and what if we actually measured?

And let's just stay with it? Because we can… I thought that's what I’m trained to do, actually. So that's what I should do. The narrative is being influenced, I think the discovery of the new enzyme activities is helping a lot. Because people are starting to see how it might work. And just showing how it's working, is very key to getting people to accept what just what they need to do. So, little by little.

Lisa: Little by little we’ll get there.

Prof. Margreet: Little by little, I hope I live long enough to...

Lisa: Long enough to… yes. In the meantime, we can make our own educated… This is what—that you've coming from a scientific background, I'm coming from an anecdotal background, or a background of I have to make decisions, life and death decisions for my loved ones. I'm going to take certain risks because the alternative was not a good one. And so, I think both—as a loved one of a patient, I desperately need that research to be done. I want that hurried up. We all want it, we want the results.

Prof. Margreet: Me too. I want it hurried up.

Lisa: And meanwhile, I'm going to make some educated decisions myself, on what I do for me and my family. And I think that's the best approach that we can do. Because we can't always wait until, when we haven't got the timeline, when we love somebody who's sick. And so we’re headed to make those educated decisions ourselves, and then live with the consequences.

But what I think is important that we have informed consent, informed discussions around these things, and that we try to take the emotions out of the whole thing. And actually, instead of—in the hospital I was sort of shut down because, ‘You're not a doctor, and you don't know anything’. And that's not true. And there was no willingness to even look at the clinical studies that I presented, that they were coming from my doctor friends who are supporting me on the outside, to try to present this on the inside of the hospital. It came down to legal arguments, more than anything else. And that's frustrating to think that perhaps you lost somebody because of a legal situation. The work that Dr. Merrick has done in this area and Dr. Berry Fowler, who’s coming on the show next week. It’s really, really exciting for me.

Prof. Margreet: Well, those two clinicians have some very compelling stories to tell. I do, I do understand. I understand entirely, that I sit here in my office just above ambulance bay watching, and above the ICU board, and seeing…

Lisa: seeing people struggle every day,

Prof. Margreet: …thinking, there are things we could be doing better. And it is about getting those conversations going. So far, I think we're getting good traction in New Zealand with getting with conversations. But it's, it is extremely…

Lisa: It is extremely slow. But then you and Doctor Anitra Carr, looked at his stuff as well. And that's exciting that we are making progress. And so I just want to, we've covered a lot of ground today. And we've really gone through in all sorts of places, but I just want to thank you for your sacrifice, because I know this is a huge amount of work. This is your life's work, basically. And I don't know if everybody was recognized for what their contribution, they're actually making to humanity. And I think and what you're doing is just absolutely wonderful. So thank you, because it is going to save lives. It has, has already saved lives.

Prof. Margreet: Well, I don't know that I have. But we have some wonderful colleagues globally as well. And so, there is a network of people who support each other on this, and some very good people doing excellently in a lot of places. Quote Mark Levine. What that man has done is extraordinary. In terms, he has provided the best information that we've ever had on vitamin C. With his own interesting stories to tell about how his colleagues’ treated...

So, some wonderful work has been done, and eventually people will just see. Actually, this is just, I just keep saying, this is just a thing that we need to eat. It's a vitamin that we need, an orange to keep our bodies functioning. Just like we need food, and we need to breathe, and we need water to drink. Now, we don't argue with those things.

But this is just one of those things, when we need to figure out how we do this, how we do this piece. And under what circumstances so, you know, let's try to take the emotion out of it…

Lisa: Yes, you're very good at it.

Prof. Margreet: I think it's the only way forward. And to give people the best information so they can make fit, so they can make the right choices, so clinicians can be making informed choices that they know is for the benefit of their patients. Because our clinical people, they're at the coalface and, and they’re having to make life and choice decisions for their patients all the time. And so they have high degree of caution around that. And that's what we want from them. So we need to provide them with the best information that we can get for them to make those clinical judgments.

Lisa: I think that's a perfect place to wrap it up. Professor Margreet Vissers, you've been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for the work that you and your team are doing. Please continue. And if there are any rich people out there listening, please fund this research. Continue to fund this research because it's very, very important work and we desperately need it. So thank you for your time today.

Prof. Margreet: My pleasure.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Sepsis, acute respiratory distress syndrome, cancer and COVID-19 are seemingly incurable illnesses. We say ‘seemingly’ because there is a way to battle all of these diseases.

Cardiologist and lawyer Dr Thomas Levy joins us in this episode to explain vitamin C's role in disease treatment. He also talks about other essential therapies and nutrients that can help prevent illness and improve our health.

If you want to know more about intravenous vitamin C's benefits and how it can save lives, then this episode is for you.

Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: 1. You will learn how oxidation causes disease. 2. Discover how vitamin C fights oxidation. 3. Learn more about the other key players in oxidative therapy and other useful nutrients in health and disease.

Resources * Join Lisa's free live webinar on epigenetics to know more about personalising health according to your genes. * You can also join her free live webinar for runners to learn how to run faster and longer without burnout or injuries. * Grab a copy of Lisa's book Relentless from Amazon, her website or in bookshops near you. * If you want to develop mental toughness, enrol in Lisa’s online course, MINDSETU. * If you love running adventures, stream the documentary Desert Runners on TVNZ. * Access Dr Levy's books through his website. * Learn more about Dr Paul Marik's protocol for sepsis using vitamin C and steroids. * Access the VICTAS study investigating the efficacy of combined use of vitamin C, thiamine and corticosteroids on patients with sepsis. * Learn more about the controversy surrounding the CITRIS-ALI trial investigating IV vitamin C in patients with sepsis-induced acute respiratory distress syndrome. * Watch Professor Margreet Vissers' lecture on her work on vitamin C. * Read on Dr Rhonda Patrick’s assessment of clinical data on Vitamin C and her findings.

Episode Highlights [06:10] How Dr Levy’s Vitamin C Research Began * Dr Hal Huggins, a leading biological dentist, asked Dr Levy to do medical consultations on his patients and follow them long-term. * Dr Levy saw a patient with an advanced neurologic disease but remained energetic after numerous dental work. * He began his research into vitamin C when he learned that Dr Hal gives the woman 50 grams of vitamin C through an IV.

[18:46] What Causes Disease? * When you have an excessive amount of oxidation among your biomolecules, it causes disease. Oxidation happens when a molecule loses electrons. * A biomolecule in an oxidised state loses some or all of its functionality. * Toxins cause toxicity and secondary disease by oxidising biomolecules. * Toxins have different physical and chemical characteristics that allow them to penetrate organs and tissues, resulting in various clinical diseases.

[21:52] How Does Vitamin C Work? * Vitamin C is a small molecule with a structure similar to that of glucose. It also uses the same cell uptake mechanism as glucose. * Vitamin C battles oxidation by reduction, a process by which electrons are donated to biomolecules. Vitamin C donates two electrons instead of one. * The give and take of electrons induce a microcurrent. * The process of oxidation and reduction helps relocate the energy-containing molecule where it is needed.

[26:46] How Is Vitamin C Administered? * IV administration gets enormous amounts of vitamin C into the body more quickly and at a higher concentration. It is usually given to patients in dire straits, but if you are needing higher doses due to things like sepsis, ARDs, pneumonia or cancer then IV vitamin is the best method. * Liposome-encapsulated vitamin C gets absorbed almost completely into the gut, unlike other oral forms. * Liposome itself is a complementary supplement. It contains a lipid called phosphatidylcholine, which is identical to the natural cell wall of our body. * All modes of vitamin C administration (intravenous, oral, liposome capsules) are equally important, depending on a patient's situation. * In the hospital setting, vitamin C is given at constant levels every six hours. As a result, this keeps a more or less steady state of vitamin C in the body.

[31:59] Controversies Surrounding Vitamin C Studies * Dr Levy says controlled trials are necessary only when a drug with potentially positive effects also has potential downsides. * Since vitamin C is an essential nutrient, Dr Levy thinks it’s not necessary to do a trial with a large sample size. * Large trials are designed to support pharmaceuticals.

[53:09] What Are the Other Key Players in Oxidative Therapy? * Hydrogen peroxide kills pathogens and hydrates and oxygenates tissues to heal them. * Nebulisers with 3% hydrogen peroxide or less help with acute viral infection, respiratory problems, and coronavirus. * Ozone is the most potent anti-pathogen agent.

[58:07] Why Are Vitamin C & Oxidative Therapy Not Mainstream Treatment? * Mainstream medicine is ignoring broad-spectrum treatments such as hyperbaric therapy, ozone, hydrogen peroxide and vitamin C. * Pharmaceuticals are multibillion-dollar companies. Doctors can only implement treatments in such a fashion that does not threaten those profits. * There is more politics in medicine. Patients are being told something that is factually not true and, sometimes, a deliberate lie.

[1:06:10] What Are Other Nutrients Beneficial to the Body? * Magnesium is the most important single supplement. It antagonises intracellular oxidative stress caused by calcium. * The recommended dose of magnesium is 600 to 1000 milligrammes. * No other nutrient can substitute for magnesium. Magnesium deficiency can cause and worsen many diseases. * People should never take iron supplements unless you have iron deficiency anemia. * Keep ferritin levels at 25 or 30 microgrammes per millilitre. Only take enough iron to get the blood level back to normal.

7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘Take responsibility for your own health and understand that we are all humans and that one person’s education may not have included some of the things that are happening now’.

‘We are co-learners with our patients’.

‘If you have a doctor who is annoyed by your questions or not open to explanations don't just walk away, run away from there and find one who is willing to work "with" you’.

‘Deal with your emotions, talk to some family and good friends, start your own research track and be the captain of your health care’.

‘Be preventative, not the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. And if you are in deep trouble, make sure you are vigilant. Make sure you ask questions’.

‘If everybody on the planet had access to hydrogen peroxide nebulisation and started doing it, there wouldn't be a single case of coronavirus on the planet in a week’.

‘If you're a clinician, and you've given just one patient who is just absolutely on death's doorstep intravenous vitamin C, and the next day they're well or 90% well, you don't need to repeat that with a thousand patients. You don't need to repeat it with five patients’.

About Dr Levy Dr Thomas Levy is a board-certified cardiologist and a bar-certified attorney. After practising adult cardiology for 15 years, he began to research the enormous toxicity associated with much dental work, as well as the pronounced ability of properly administered vitamin C to neutralise this toxicity.

He has now written 11 books, with several addressing the wide-ranging properties of vitamin C in neutralising all toxins and resolving most infections, as well as its vital role in the effective treatment of heart disease and cancer. Others address the important roles of dental toxicity and nutrition in disease and health.

Recently inducted into the Orthomolecular Medicine Hall of Fame, Dr Levy continues to research the impact of the orthomolecular application of vitamin C and antioxidants in general on chronic degenerative diseases. His ongoing research involves documenting that all diseases are different forms and degrees of focal scurvy, arising from increased oxidative stress, especially intracellularly, and that they all benefit from protocols that optimise the antioxidant levels in the body.

He regularly gives lectures on this information at medical conferences around the world. His 11th book, Hidden Epidemic: Silent Oral Infections Cause Most Heart Attacks and Breast Cancers, was published in September of 2017.

If you want to learn more about oxidative medicine from Dr Levy, you may contact him at televymd@yahoo.com or through his website.

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To pushing the limits,

Lisa

Transcript of the Podcast

Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com.

Lisa Tamati: Welcome, everybody. I'm absolutely excited about this next interview that I have for you today. It is with Dr Thomas Levy who is sitting in Miami in America. And he is a board-certified cardiologist. He's also an attorney at law, and he has written 11 books. Now, talk about overachiever, this man is amazing. But above all, he is a humanitarian. He is someone who writes about what he believes. He's a straight talker. And today we're going to be talking about vitamin C, continuing on this journey after my experiences in hospital recently with my father who died of sepsis, and I was unable to get him vitamin C. I am on a mission to let people know about how intravenous vitamin C works in the cases of things like sepsis, pneumonia and corona.

And I'm getting a series of experts, we've already had Dr Ron Hunninghake on the show a couple of weeks ago. And this is his colleague, Dr Thomas Levy. You know, Dr Thomas has written a book called Curing the Incurable about vitamin C and its history, which is over 80 years old, a huge amount of evidence, a huge clinical experience with vitamin C. And Dr Levy, he knows how it works, the mechanisms of action, some of the reasons why this is not in the mainstream hospital care for these for viruses, and for cancers, and so on. And I really hope you get a lot out of today's episode.

You know, he is a man who does say it as it is. And I really, really respect him for doing that. Because, it's very, very hard for a doctor to criticize anything within the medical world and the way things are set up. But Dr Levy sort of tells us how it is—some of the systemic problems we have. And it's a really interesting interview, above all, about vitamin C and its mechanisms of action. So please take a good listen. Take heed of his advice. And make sure you share this with family and friends, especially if anybody is dealing with any major sort of health issues; it would be really beneficial.

Just as a reminder, we are holding every couple of weeks with our company Running Hot Coaching, a running master class every second Tuesday at 12:30pm, New Zealand time. You can register for the next one at runninghotcoaching.com/webinar. On alternate weeks at the same time on a Tuesday at 12:30, New Zealand time, we are holding our Epigenetics webinar, which is all around personalizing health according to your genes and helping you understand this great set of genes that you inherited and what you can do to optimize your life, your fitness, your nutrition, your mindset—everything according to your genes and your epigenetics, how they are expressing right now. So register for that at epigenetics.lisatamati.com. That’s epi—E-P-I—genetics.lisatamati.com

And as a reminder, go and grab my book Relentless, my new book. If you haven't read my old books, Running Hot & Running To Extremes and you like running adventures, make sure you check those out. And just as a side note too, Desert Runners, which was a movie that I was involved with, is now playing on TVNZ OnDemand. It's on the Pulse Channel, I believe, under Documentaries. If you haven't seen that movie and you love adventures and running adventures, please go and check that out on TVNZ if you're in New Zealand.

Right before we head over to Dr Levy, just a reminder, please, please, please give the show a rating and review if you enjoy the work that we do. This is a huge amount of work that goes into each one of these episodes. And it is for love, definitely not for money. And I really appreciate a rating and review. We are going to be introducing a way that you can support the podcast as a Patreon if you'd like in the coming weeks, so that you can actually support the work we do and get some bonuses for doing so. So stay tuned for that. Right, over to Dr Thomas Levy in Miami.

Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. This is Lisa Tamati here. And today I'm absolutely jumping in on my skin from excitement because I have Dr Thomas Levy, who is one of the world's most renowned researchers and doctors in vitamin C among a whole lot of other things. Dr Levy is also a board-certified cardiologist and a lawyer to boot. Go figure that one out. But Dr Levy is sitting in Miami, and he has given up an hour of his time today to share information that I think is absolutely crucial that you guys pay attention. So whatever you are doing, drop it and listen to this interview, because the work that Dr Levy and many of his colleagues have been doing, it’s been 40 years in the making and we're going to be talking today about vitamin C.

Now recently, I had Dr Ron Hunninghake from the Riordan Institute on the show and we had a great interview. And now we're going to continue that conversation with Dr Levy, with his experience. So welcome to the show. Dr Levy. It's fantastic to have you.

Dr Levy: Thank you, Lisa. Glad to be here.

Lisa: So Doctor, can you tell us a little bit—just in brief—your background and your journey towards vitamin C?

Dr Levy: Well, in a nutshell, I was a garden variety, mainstream cardiologist some 25 years ago. And through a bunch of circumstances that I won't go into it's—I don't know, call it karma or destiny or something like that. At the same time, I decided to wind down my cardiology practice, I met Dr Hal Huggins in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Dr Huggins, in my opinion, was the first and the world's leading biological dentist. He just wasn't a tooth mechanic, he took care of the whole body while addressing what was going on to the mouth.

And anyway, to make a long story short, he ended up asking me to do medical consultations with his patients and follow them up long term. But that only occurred after I visited his clinic a few times. And I saw things that, well. In med school, you're taught: don't exist. As an intern and resident in internal medicine, you're taught these responses can’t take place. And in addition to seeing just overall dramatic improvement in patients—and I'm not going to say this is routine, don't get me wrong—but I saw a couple patients that had been wheelchair-bound with MS for over a year. And they took a few steps at the end of two weeks. I mean, so there was clear stuff going on physiologically.

But the thing that really hooked me was, one day, early on, he had this very elderly patient with advanced neurologic disease. He was getting a ton of dental work—extractions. I mean, the type of stuff that puts a college kid in bed for a week. What he did, he gets his wisdom teeth yanked out, he just goes. ‘Ugh, I got to rest’. Well, at the end of several hours of this work, this woman was energetic. I couldn't believe, and I said, ‘Something's wrong here’. I said, ‘Hal, what's going on’? And if you knew Hal, you’d know Hal is a very dry, sarcastic person. I loved it.

And he just pointed at the IV, I said, ‘Okay, yeah, that's an IV, Hal. Thanks’. ‘What does that have to do’, I said, ‘What's in it’? ‘Okay Hal, what’s in it’? And he said, ‘50 grams of vitamin C’.

Lisa: Wow. 50 grams...

Dr Levy: And that just came from left field, smacked me between the eyes, and I literally and figuratively went rolling across the room. And as the expression goes, ‘I wasn't going to be misled by my lying eyes’. I saw something. It happened. Something was going on here and at that point in time that began my research with vitamin C and just about everything else.

Lisa: Wow. So that's the story. And this is coming from dentist—Dr Hal Huggins was very, very famous for making us aware of amalgam fillings from what I understand and root canals. I need to go back and read his books after discovering him in one of your lectures and thinking, ‘Crikey, I've got a heck of a lot of those’. So I need to look into those for myself.

Dr Levy: Absolutely.

Lisa: Yeah. Got me a bit worried. I've already spent a bloody fortune on this. So I don't know. So, you've come from cardiology and internal medicine and to this. And then you went to a law degree. Just to add to the achievements that you've had. And then...

Dr Levy: I might add, Dr Huggins has taught me more real medicine than I ever learned before. So, my really—my second medical education was the one that counted.

Lisa: Wow. And so this is really important. So, because people I think, Dr Levy—and we were talking previously—a lot of just people listening, when you go to your doctor, they are not God, and they don't know everything on the planet. And what I try to advocate—and I'm not saying that your doctors paid or whatever—but what I'm saying is take responsibility for your own health and understand that we are all humans, and that one person's education may not have included some of the things that are happening now.

Dr Levy: So along those lines, I like to tell people that, just as you pretty much said, you have to take responsibility for your health. And you need to understand and you need to proceed at your comfort level, which means if you have a doctor, he or she who is put off or doesn't want to take the time or is irritated by you asking questions, don't walk out of that office, run out.

Okay, so you need to find physicians, medical care, that will work with you. And as we all know, I mean, hey, physicians like to believe they're brilliant, but it's mostly in their head. Okay, so, you know, they spend their time, they do their time in school, but in my humble opinion—and I know this is somewhat snide and sarcastic, but I gotta say it anyway—I find that most physicians view getting a medical degree as the validation that they no longer need to think the rest of their lives. ‘I'm a doctor, now I don't need to do anything else’. Okay, that's obviously only the beginning. And you should be continuing to learn and realize that you made a lot of mistakes until the day you die or lose cognitive function.

Lisa: Yeah. And this is remaining humble in your process to learning. And this is not just for doctors, this is for everybody. You know, like we have to be constantly learning. I love what Dr Hugh Riordon said in one of his talks, that we are co-learners with our patients. And I thought, ‘That is brilliant’.

Dr Levy: That’s a good way of putting it.

Lisa: That's how a doctor should be approaching this. Okay, let's dive deep into the weeds here with vitamin C. So Dr Levy has written a book called Curing the Incurable, please go out and get this book, among many other books. He's written over 11 books. One was Death by Calcium, The Magnesium Reversing Disease. Yes, I'll find my notes here. Primal Panacea. His website, by the way, before we go any further is peakenergy.com. If you want to find out more about those books, really, really highly recommend people go and do that.

But let's go into Curing the Incurable when I listened to this book, unfortunately, Dr Levy after my father passed. I was just like, ‘What the hell? And why has this been such a battle? And why is my dad not with me still’? Because I am sure if you had been his physician from day one, my father would be still with us. And that's a big call to make, but this is what I believe based on your book and other research that I've done around this. Can you tell us, Curing the Incurable, you talked about Dr Klenner, you talked about Linus Pauling, Dr Iriwn Stone. Can you give us a little bit of background—this is 40 years that you guys have been saying this stuff, you and your colleagues that vitamin C is a cleanser...

Dr Levy: Well Klenner in 1940, that's 1940. So that's 80 years.

Lisa: 80 years? Wow. Okay, got that wrong. 80 years with Dr Klenner. And then Dr Linus Pauling—Linus Pauling Nobel Prize winner, two times in the 70s I believe, was the next sort of step in the process. Yeah. So like, we’ve known about this for so long, why is it not getting that message across? You know, why?

Dr Levy: Well, this is not a medical issue. But you asked a the direct question, I'll give you a direct answer. Money. Money runs everything. And the pharmaceuticals are multibillion dollar industries. So what I've said many, many times is, ‘you don't bump out a billionaire’. Billionaires who will not be excluded, they're not being minimized. The only way you get something done is to hopefully analyze the situation and implement it in such a fashion that it doesn't threaten those profits. Okay?

So I mean, if you can put an additive into gasoline to make it a little more efficient, but not eliminate the gasoline, and the companies will probably let you be. But if you come along with something that replaces gasoline, don't think the gasoline, oil companies are gonna take it lying down.

It should not come as something surprising to people, except for the fact, and this is what people need to realize, doctors are the same type of people as any other profession. All right. We beat our chest and we try to make ourselves angels, if you will, but we're not even close. You have wonderful politicians, you have vicious politicians. You have wonderful physicians, you have, I won’t say vicious, I'll say physicians that do not place the patient's welfare as their number one concern. Whereas you have other physicians, unfortunately, of a tiny minority who would give their life for their patient.

Lisa: Yeah. And you really put them first, and these are quite rare. And this is why, you know, this is, like, having Dr Ron Hunninghake on, recently. He's one of those, you know.

Dr Levy: Yes, he's spectacular.

Lisa: He’s spectacular.

Dr Levy: He is one of my best friends. But that's one of the reasons why he's my best friend.

Lisa: Yeah. Because, and we just connected so well, because I could see the heart and the man and the compassion. And, you know, I have had the privilege of having some of those types of doctors, and scientists as well, on the show because I searched those types of people out who are not cowards. I mean...

Dr Levy: Let me say this, since you mentioned Dr Hunninghake. I don't have a clinical practice. But I often get emails from around the world of people, ‘How can I see you? How can I do that? Can you recommend somebody’? Well, there's only one person on the planet that pretty much practices the way I would practice, and that’s Dr Hunninghake. So for someone who would be interested in following up on the type of concepts—in our, we're in this day and age of Zoom conferences and everything like that. They have the facility to offer video consultations in which he can analyze the data. And even if you could never see him directly, he can get you going in the right direction.

Lisa: Absolutely. That's a really good recommendation, you know, especially if you're fighting something serious. So back to the vitamin C story. So Linus Pauling, or Dr Klenner firstly, was using this in practice back in the 40s. And had some miraculous—and that word is probably not a good one to use because it implies something—but had some incredible recoveries and saw this. And then Linus Pauling’s work where he had cancer patients who lived four times longer in his study. And he was only using quite small doses of vitamin C. And then of course, the Mayo Clinic coming along and replicating his study. But using oral vitamin C, that's not a replication, and that one is still being quoted.

So what is it that vitamin, C does? Let's get into a bit of biochemistry here and help us understand. Why is it such a broad spectrum panacea? Why can it help sepsis, coronavirus, any virus, hepatitis, shingles right through to cancer?

Dr Levy: Well, first, I would say let's understand what causes disease. there. And when I say that I mean all disease. I'm not talking about a percentage of the disease. What causes all disease is having an excessive amount of oxidation among your biomolecules relative to their normal state of reduction. So oxidation is when a molecule loses electrons and then it's in an oxidized state. When you have a biomolecule, RNA, DNA, protein, fat—you name it—enzyme, and that molecule gets oxidized, it loses one or more electrons. It either becomes less functional or completely devoid of function. So you completely take one biomolecule out if you will when it’s oxidized.

Now you have different ages that oxidize and they're known as toxins. Toxin is the same thing as a pro oxidant, free radical, they're synonyms. So the enemies of health if you will are toxins no matter how you encounter them, because all toxins cause toxicity and secondary disease by oxidation, nothing else.

Now you might say, well, how could then just that cause so many different diseases? Well, that's because the toxins have different physical and chemical characteristics. One toxin goes in the fat, others goes in water soluble, one penetrates membranes, one's ionic, one concentrates in this tissue—that gives you a variety of clinical disease, because different areas and different biomolecules are being concentrated to varying, in different degrees throughout the body. That's the entirety of what causes the disease.

So when we hear this idea that oxidation causes disease, well, yes, that's true, but it's much more accurate to say, oxidation is disease. Okay? A tissue of a given disease, liver disease, whatever, there's not an additional ill-defined thing that's wrong with that tissue other than the unique array of oxidation. Now, having said that, your basic overall goal of therapy is to reduce—in other words, donate electrons back to biomolecules that have been oxidized. And the extent to which you can do this pretty much dictates the extent to which you can either stop the progression, reverse the progression, and in early stages even resolve chronic disease, no matter what the disease. So this is an antioxidant. Okay, the toxin is a pro-oxidant, an oxidizing agent. And the antioxidant is a reducing agent. A toxin takes away electrons, antioxidant donates electrons.

Now vitamin C, even though there are many, many antioxidants out there, they all have a positive impact. The thing about vitamin C is, number one, it's a small molecule. Number two, it's very closely structured to glucose. Now we know every cell in your body takes up glucose. So vitamin C tags along and uses the same mechanisms as glucose for uptake into the cell, right? Number three, each vitamin C molecule can donate two electrons rather than one. So that makes it doubly important. Number four, it has an intermediate stable state. We know we talked about how vitamin C gets used up quickly, that's true. But it's sort of a biochemical phenomena type thing, when the vitamin C loses one electron it can stay indefinitely in the intermediate state where it can either donate another electron or actually go in the opposite direction. And when you have a lot of vitamin C in the cell, what happens when you reduce, oxidize, reduce, oxidize? Give, take, give, take, give, take? You induce microcurrents.

So electron flow is a current. Right. The more effectively vitamin C can do this trillions of times a second, determines as to how well you can establish healthy microcurrents inside your cells with healthy transmembrane voltages across the membrane.

Lisa: So this is meaning— oxidation isn't always a bad thing, is it though? Like when I...

Dr Levy: No, not at all.

Lisa: So when I exercise, I'm causing an oxidative stress onto my body and it's causing a hormetic effect that hopefully my body's going to see more soldiers to build my muscles stronger or whatever the case might be. And so this is like a redox, it’s like a cycle that is important and it's for cycling of the electrons that creates this microcurrent.

Dr Levy: The whole thing is designed—you're right—there's oxidation reduction and oxidation is part of it. The thing about a toxin is, a toxin takes electrons and keeps it.

Lisa: I gotcha, so yeah.

Dr Levy: Vitamin C gives electrons and then when you take them away from electrons it goes back and forth, back and forth. But the toxin once it takes the electrons it becomes electronically more stable, biochemically more stable, and it doesn't give the electrons up. So that's a net fact of electrons from the tissues.

Lisa: Wow. Yeah. So this is stealing your energy.

Dr Levy: And the thing about it is with the oxidation, you need oxidation to stay alive. The thing about—one of the things oxidation does is it helps you relocate the energy-containing molecule where you need it. Okay, so, when you have vitamin C in the blood, you need active transport, you need to consume energy to get vitamin C inside the cell. And so the purpose of part of the energy is to get your energy providing substance in an area where it better does its function. So yeah, you absolutely need oxidation to balance back and off this.

And the other thing, too is, when your oxidized vitamin C level gets high in the blood, then you pass into the cell without the consumption of energy, but then you need to consume energy inside the cell to restore the vitamin C back to its reduced state. But the important thing there is, the vitamin C, has unique ways of taking that energy and getting it where it's needed. So just because you're consuming another antioxidant to reduce vitamin C back to its normal state, that's not a loss of energy. It's a translocation of energy.

Lisa: Yep. So that's when things like will define we know it's going backwards and forwards. So this is the transporter of—what was that—the SVCT2 transporter that's getting it into the cell, that’s getting the vitamin C into the cell. So if we go and say intravenous versus oral, versus liposomal delivery of vitamin C. Oral has certain limitations, although important for everyday use. Liposomal vitamin C, like we're all hearing about liposomal vitamin C, is that a better way of delivery? What is the difference between intravenous, oral, and liposomal—in short, perhaps?

Dr Levy: Well, first of all, when somebody says, what would you use? My answer is all of them.

Lisa: All of them, yeah.

Dr Levy: Okay. And I'm not going to arbitrarily if I'm sick, just use one and not the other. They all have their own unique contribution. Intravenous, obviously allows you to get an extremely large amount of vitamin C inside the body much more quickly and at a higher concentration than you could by any other form. However, I also just told you that the vitamin C in the blood, you need to consume energy to get the vitamin C inside the cell, and it's reduced for.

Okay, well, when you take liposome encapsulated, vitamin C, because it's like a little cell, a little fat, globule cell-like structure that's got the same construction, around the liposomes as the natural cell membranes in your body. So that gets absorbed almost completely and very properly in the gut, unlike the other oral forms. And then once it's inside there, it's either in the lymph or the blood. The lymph eventually makes its way into the blood. And then as the blood circulates, the liposomes can then get inside the cell without the consumption of energy.

Lisa: So if you've got a very sick patient who isn't really responsive to recovery, like can't handle a lot of oxidative stress. This would be a better delivery system, perhaps to get it to them without...

Dr Levy: Well, certainly if you have a loved one who's in the hospital, and…

Lisa: He can't get intubated.

Dr Levy: ...the doctors are giving you a hard time and they're don't they don't have a tube down the throat.

Lisa: Yes. And I would have done that if I had my case with my father. But he was unfortunately intubated. So I was stuffed in that. I had liposomal in the hospital room ready to go for when he was extubated. But unfortunately, we never got there. So I was really reliant on the intravenous way. And the intravenous is, like you say, a very, very powerful way for someone who is in such dire, dire straits. You know, as my father was in sepsis.

Can we answer just one question on the liposomal? I was concerned about the number of omega-6, like that’s a phospholipid, and there's a lot of omega-6 in the delivery mechanism. Is that going to be a problem when you've got—we tend too many omega-6 and not enough omega-3 in our diet. If you're taking a lot of liposomal vitamin C that way, is there the issue? Well, not really?

Dr Levy: I don't think so. The type of lipid that's in the liposome—in this case, we're talking about the LiveOn product, I got to say that because there's a lot of fraudulent liposomes out there. That LiveOn became so prosperous so quick. Everybody wanted to jump on the bandwagon. And in the process, not realizing that it's a very complicated process to make quality liposomes. But those other companies had no problem with it; they just lied.

Waiting to get the letter so that they can stop, but have been made an ungodly amount of profit until they're told to stop. But, the liposome lipid is past the phosphatidylcholine. And this phosphatidylcholine is identical to the phosphatidylcholine that’s in the natural cell walls of your body. So, really it's the liposome itself is a positive supplement in addition to what's inside the lens.

Lisa: Uh-huh. Oh, that clears that one up for me. Because I was concerned about the amount of omega-6 that I might be giving to my mom, in this case, recently through liposomal delivery.

Okay, so now let's go into—I was fascinated by the work of Dr Marik, Dr Paul Marik. I think you know of his study with intravenous vitamin C in the ICU setting. Unfortunately, it wasn't a double blind, placebo controlled trial. But he had a small trial with 96 patients, 47 in the control and 47 who received vitamin C. Now these were very small doses. And Dr Berry Fowler has also done this similar work. And Dr Berry fellows coming on in a couple of weeks.

So Dr Marik—he reduced—this is the statistic that got me and what I used when I was advocating for my father, a 40% mortality rate was in the control group with sepsis; 8%, when they got the vitamin C, along with hydrocortisone, and thiamine and that's a hell of a drop. And those are all people. Those are people that are still walking around now, and this is a small study.

Dr Levy: And the thing that maddens me is when you want to try something different, some of the standard opposition is where you don't have a double blind placebo control bla bla bla. Number one, if you have something, which as a competent clinician, you know has helped, and very importantly, has no defined toxicity, and is not experimental, and is inexpensive. The only time the trials that you're talking about are warranted, is when you're using a drug that has the potential to have a greater or positive effect, but also has the potential downside for negative side effects. So you need to balance one against the other.

When you're talking about something like vitamin C, which is the most important nutrient in your body, it's a ridiculous and foundationless argument. So it's, to me, unethical to the highest degree, if you're a clinician, and you've given just one patient, who is just absolutely on death's doorstep, intravenous vitamin C. And the next day they're well, or 90% well. You don't need to repeat that with 1000 patients. You don't need to repeat it with five patients. Okay, so we really have—if you'll excuse the expression—a back-ass-wards way of approaching research. But it's all designed, as I said before, to do one thing: support the pharmaceuticals.

Lisa: And this is a legal thing, isn't it? Because evidence-based, it really was—and this is Dr Ron Hunninghake said this to me, ‘Evidence-based is not evidence-based, it was designed for the pharmaceutical companies so that they could defend their drug in a court case that they did with a placebo controlled group that didn't get it, so that they could prove it’. But it's not a practical approach for all of medicine to do it in this style.

I mean, hyperbaric, I’ll use as an example. I do hyperbaric oxygen therapy. It was a key player in my mother's rehabilitation for her brain aneurysm. Also in the oxidative medicine family. They did a trial—a clinical trial—but the people know if they're getting hyperbaric. So they did, the control was 1.3 atmospheres and the other one was 1.5 atmospheres. 1.3 atmospheres, it's not a placebo, that’s a treatment. So they all got better. And they said, ‘Well, they all got better. So therefore there is no’... And it's just like, seriously? Or in Dr Marik study with a— or in the CITRIS-ALI study, sorry, where the SOFA scores were taken as the primary endpoint and not mortality is sort of backwards in my head. Surely we should be looking, ‘Did these people die or not’? Rather than this sequential multi-organ failure score. I get why they did it, because they were an early stage study, but it did throw a spanner in the works. And that wasn't a sepsis of study. That was an ad study, because they already had sepsis for too long. And that's why we probably didn't see the dramatic results in that one. Because that was one of the studies that was checked back at me when I was fighting for my father, the CITRIS-ALI study, bla bla bla. Didn't help with the SOFA score. Didn't help with the CRP. Didn't help with a couple of the other markers. And I was like, mortality and days in ICU, it did help with. And these people were already extremely sick because when they came into the study, they were already very far along the process.

Dr Levy: Which is what Madison likes to do with their prescription drug. Right now with the coronavirus in the US, I suppose elsewhere in the world, they have Remdesivir. And they're doing trials over Remdesivir with the endpoint of looking for less days hospitalized. So I mean that the same thing that they trashed on the one hand, but that's their endpoint with this insufficient drug therapy, if you will. ‘Let's see if it helps a little bit. And now we're going to get all excited. We took our prescription drugs, and we lessen the hospital days by 10, 20, 30, 40%’.

Lisa: Yeah, and ‘But we'll ignore vitamin C that could actually get the people and prevent them from dying’.

Dr Levy: Even though it's also been documented by Hackney studies to decrease like the hospitalization as well,

Lisa: As well. And they have been studied around the world now with the coronavirus with vitamin C. So, a really sarcastic question. Do you think President Trump is getting vitamin C right now? Or is he on Remdesivir?

Dr Levy: Well, I don't have a crystal ball. But I think he is getting what was reported, which was—this is significant. Nobody talks about this but had this happened at the beginning of the pandemic, it would have been just incredible news, but shows like yours, the articles on the orthomolecular medicine news service, all this stuff… It’s absolutely mind blowing to me that it's in the mainstream news, very casually mentioned, that President Trump was getting zinc, vitamin D, melatonin.

Lisa: Oh, wow.

Dr Levy: Yes. Okay, and I mean, that was out there up front. What the medical community must have just choked on their tongue when they saw that our president was getting at least some natural approach to bring his virus under control? I doubt he was using vitamin C. But it's possible.

Lisa: Wow. But at least he’s on the melatonin and the zinc. I mean, that is a step forward. So but you know, like, you hear this coming from the head of the FDA, ‘None of that has been proven to help. Vitamins A, B, C, D, zinc, melatonin, vitamin C, none of those has been proven’.

Dr Levy: That's where politics gets into medicine. I've often said—and I'm sad to say it, and I don't mean to be sarcastic at all—there's more politics in medicine than there is in politics.

Lisa: Yes, yeah.

Dr Levy:You have a better chance of a politician giving you an honest statement about a controversial issue than you have a drug representative or a physician representing a drug company, giving you the straight scoop about drugs. What you just said, and they'll say it all the time, ‘There's no study this. There's no study that’. It's a bald faced lie. What could you say beyond the fact that they're just lying? Now, let me say, let me backtrack with lie. I should say they're telling something that's wrong. Lie means intent. So I can't tell you whether it's their intent to lie, like, ‘I know I'm telling you something that's wrong’. But there's no question that most of the time, they're just telling you something that's factually not true. And I dare say most of the time, a deliberate lie.

Lisa: And it's ignorance.

Dr Levy: No, nothing wrong with ignorance,

Lisa: So they won't go and look at the damn study and its data.

Dr Levy: Ignorance can’t be remedied because ignorance doesn't mean, you have to have a closed mind. It just means you have a mind that hasn't been exposed.

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, don't we, you know, with the situation with my father. I had the studies, I was working with doctors outside who were helping me get the studies, present the studies, and they said ‘Don't want to see them. Won't be presenting them. All you're worried about is, is it legal? And with our staff are not trained in doing vitamin C infusions, and whether we are allowed to do it’. It was not about the clinical

Dr Levy: Well in New Zealand it was a registered medicine.

Lisa: And not in the hospitals. I was told point blank is an unlicensed medicine in our...

Dr Levy: I think, I'm not sure but I think you can say that was another lie. A lot of times our pharmacy, they'll do, they'll lie like anybody else. It’s something they don't want to do. So they'll just toss it aside, always not allowed. Until you take the law book, and stick it in their face, and say, ‘You're wrong, Stop lying’.

Lisa: But you, you know, as a lawyer, and as someone who's brilliant, can do that. A loved one who's fighting for their family who hasn't slept in two weeks, who doesn't know about the law is buggered to be quite fear [41:16]. And so this is—why I'm doing these interviews because I want people to be just made aware of this sort of situation.

So, okay, vitamin C, can help. And we've seen the studies now. And perhaps we'll link to some of the studies in the show notes with sepsis. And Dr Berry Fowler said, used this analogy, just in the States, ‘Two 747s of people are dying every single day of sepsis who don't need to be dying’, who are crashing into the ground, basically. There are a number of people, are dying daily in the States alone. Let alone the rest of the world from sepsis, which could be drastically helped with intravenous vitamin C. Do you think, like Dr Marik included thiamine and hydrocortisone? Is there a necessary additive or a beneficial additive to that protocol? Or is vitamin C the key player here?

Dr Levy: Yeah, no, they're not necessary at all. That's not to say they didn't have a positive impact. I mean, like when people ask about supplements, ‘So what supplements should I take’? And I mentioned something, that they ‘What about this, this, and this’? I said, ‘Well those are all good, too, but as far as being vital to the response, no’.

And in fact, predating Dr Marik’s study about a year earlier, they did a study in Iran, of all places, with patients with sepsis getting roughly the same dose of vitamin C every six hours. And that was it. And they got the same response and mortality rate.

One thing about the hydrocortisone that makes it especially unnecessary in sepsis is, sepsis is a state where you have massive infection, massive increased oxidative stress throughout the body. When you have increased oxidative stress, what are you going to do? You're gonna, like we talked earlier, oxidized biomolecules? Well, as it turns out, in addition to oxidizing a lot of biomolecules, you also oxidize the cortisol receptors. Cortisol has receptors they bind to. Well, I just said, what happens when you oxidize a biomolecule that doesn't work? So those receptors aren’t taking up the cortisol anymore, so the body's natural reflex is to produce a large amount of cortisol.

In fact it is documented in sepsis patients, that there's already a high level of indiginous hydrocortisone. So then what happens when you give vitamin C? When you give vitamin C, one of the first things it does, is it starts reducing those oxidized hydrocortisone receptors, and then the hydrocortisone that's already circulating in the body can bind to the receptor, gets taken up into the cell. Okay, and one of the primary functions of hydrocortisone—not well known, I don’t believe—is that it profoundly increases the uptake of vitamin C inside the cell.

Lisa: In that way it would be beneficial? Is it why Dr Marik perhaps used it in this case? We don't—can't really…

Dr Levy: No, I don't think so. Because if that was the case, he wouldn't have given the hydrocortisone at all. I mean, you're already, there’s already present and high amounts of it inside the body. So I can't say for sure what his reasoning was.

Lisa: Yeah. Well, maybe it was a limitation of the study. And he had to use a drug. Possibly we conjecture here. So when you release cortisol—just for the people listening—it is an anti inflammatory, isn't it? It is one of the stress hormones and it basically takes energy away from you making inflammatory responses. And that’s its beneficial use

Dr Levy: Right and it's my opinion, based on the evidence, as I reviewed over the years is that vitamin C, of course is a powerful anti-inflammatory. And I would tell you that the reason hydrocortisone is a powerful anti-inflammatory, is because it gets the most important anti-inflammatory vitamin C inside the cells where it's needed.

Lisa: That makes good sense. Are you aware of...

Dr Levy: Remember anti-inflammatory just means you're in an area of increased oxidative stress that needs more electrons brought into it, that's all inflammation is. And another point to just to buttress all of this is when you have inflammation starting anywhere—often talking about the coronary artery getting inflamed, vitamin C levels go down to nil. So you have a lot of oxidative stress inside the blood vessel. Okay. And what's the first immune cell to show up?

Lisa: Neutrophil

Dr Levy: Neutrophils more specifically, the macrophages. The macrophages has 8,000% more vitamin C inside of the blood. So all you're doing in my humble scientific opinion, I think—personally and scientifically—that the primary role of the immune system since it’s precipitated always by areas of increased inflammation increase oxidative stress. My opinion is the primary—not the only but the primary—role of the immune system, is to bring vitamin C where it's most depleted.

Lisa: Wow. And that's what the macrophages are doing. So are you aware of the work of Professor Margreet Vissers? She's a professor here in New Zealand at Otago University and Dr Anitra Carr as well. But Professor Vissers is coming on next week, on the show.

And forgive me, I don't have a scientific background. I'm trying to get my head around all this science, biochemistry, but she had showed on one of her lectures, the neutrophils coming to the site of infection, say, pneumonia or sepsis, eating the bacteria into into the neutrophils, they gorge on those bacteria, it's a good thing. The bacteria then inside the neutrophils and if the neutrophils don't have vitamin C in them, they vomit out—for the want of a better description—their own DNA. Eventually, they sort of explode and leave out and put all this DNA into the cytoplasm? And this is causing—so when you get wiped out on the lungs, that's lungs being filled up with neutrophils. And then the macrophages are made to come along and eat the neutrophils from what I understand. And they will only do that if there is vitamin C in the neutrophils.

Dr Levy: Both the macrophages and the neutrophils are phagocytic. Okay. And even though the macrophage has the most, I said 8,000% more vitamin C than the blood. The neutrophils have 4 to 5,000% more vitamin C in the blood. So they're sort of like—with regard to vitamin C content—they're right up there with the macrophage. And both the macrophage and the neutrophil, gave these phagocytic Pac Man like qualities, if you will.

Lisa: Yeah. And they're eating the bugs and getting rid of them. So she was talking about—no, Dr Berry Fowler—god I’m mixing my things up. NETS, neutrophil extracellular traps), have you heard of those? And the vitamin C prevents—from what I understand. And we'll have Professor Margaret on next week—that it stops the neutrophils from regurgitating basically their own DNA and poisoning the space around them and then the macrophages won't eat them. And then in the case of say, as acute respiratory syndrome, you've got white out and you can't get rid of it. It's not going to go away and it's not going to be taken out by the macrophages. Yeah, it’d be interesting to work to look at those NETS, neutrophil extracellular traps. That was Dr Berry Fowler that was talking about that. But I've got so much research in my head, I'm probably mixing professors up. I don’t have a biochemistry degree anyway. I'm doing my best. So hopefully I haven't butchered it.

Okay, so what should people do—on a practical standpoint—if someone is in hospital with a loved one, they've got pneumonia, they've got coronavirus, they’ve got sepsis, how can they get their doctors to give intravenous vitamin C or liposomal delivered vitamin C? What would be your—so they're not in a situation like I was fighting against the machinery.

Dr Levy: So we're talking about someone who's not intubated yet.

Lisa: Yes. Because when they're intubated, you’re buggered. But you gave me a couple of things that I never thought to bring into the conversation with the doctors. I brought them the clinical studies, I brought in the evidence. But I was saying to the doctor, ‘I'm going to come after you. And I'm going to sue you if you don't do this, because the evidence is there’.

Dr Levy: And draw the vitamin C level and when it comes back low, ‘This doctor is a nutrient level that's low, please treat it’.

Lisa: Yep. Okay, so get the vitamin C treated, by the way, in my local hospital, they were unable to test it. Okay, so that's just ridiculous. So is it a very difficult thing to test for vitamin C levels?

Dr Levy: I think so. Not that I know of. It involves a certain technique, and you either have the technique or you don't, but it's not something sort of exotic or out there.

Lisa: Oh wow. So anyone who is in that situation, basically, you need to get vitamin C, in somehow. And ideally, you're having it in six hourly, intermittent, constant levels, so that your, because vitamin C has a very short half Life, can you explain that a little bit? Why the intermittent—the every six hours is crucial?

Dr Levy: Well, it's just excreted, that rapidly of the blood, once it's in the—it’s excreted that rapidly in the kidneys, once it's in the blood. Like that, it goes down quickly. And that's why you have every six hours, so that as it starts going down, you have another bump up so that you more or less keep a steady state. Which is also why liposomes are so good because once they get taken up inside the cell, they effectively become a long acting form of vitamin C because they've been taken out of the area where they can be rapidly excreted.

You know, you're talking about what to do for a patient in the hospital. And this would help anybody but it will especially help with the acute viral infection, respiratory problem, and the coronavirus. And believe it or not, it actually relates back to vitamin C. And that's the nebulization or inhalation of hydrogen peroxide.

Lisa: Oh, yes, I wanted to ask that.

Dr Levy: Hydrogen peroxide. Okay, little known facts, number one inside the body and inside the lungs, after it kills the pathogen, you know what's left? Oxygen and water. That's the breakdown products of hydrogen peroxide. So at the same time, you kill the pathogen. You do the two things that are most important for healing tissue. You hydrate it and oxygenate it.

Lisa: Yeah.

Dr Levy: Number two is we now know, that the respiratory lining of the lungs naturally produces and excretes hydrogen peroxide 24/7. So that you actually have hydrogen peroxide, existing already endogenously to protect you against new pathogens as you breathe in. And when you get an infection, that production increases, so all you're doing with hydrogen peroxide nebulization is you're augmenting a natural response.

Lisa: Wow

Dr Levy: And add to that the fact that there's been no infections, pathogens of any type that have been found to be resistant to hydrogen peroxide. Now, vitamin C and hydrogen peroxide. The Fenton reaction, vitamin C goes in, donates the electron to iron which passes along to peroxide, make hydroxyl radical oxidized, kills the cell or the pathogen or whatever.

Another thing, little known fact that vitamin C does, is outside of the cell, it stimulates hydrogen peroxide production. So it causes more peroxide to be produced, which then passes easily into the cell and continues to give the vitamin C inside the cell more fuel to resolve the oxidative reaction that kills the patch.

Lisa: Wow. So okay neutralizing hydrogen peroxide. So just a normal 3% food grade hydrogen peroxide that you can buy at the chemists or the...

Dr Levy: Right. 3% or less. So only 3% percent is a little potent but if it's not, that's great but you could get a very positive response with half a percent or a 10th of a percent but I said don't I say, why not go up to the percent that you easily tolerate and get the job done a little more quickly’?

Lisa: Is there any danger with people you know going out buying nebulizers? So when you buy a little nebulizer, is it like the essential oil sort of thing that you have? You need to have a towel over your face or like you do when you get a cold and you put menthol or something in it. If you've got one for me. Oh, okay. No, that wasn't what I was picturing. Okay. Oh, great. nebulizer. Okay. And you just put it in here.

Dr Levy: Put the liquid in.

Lisa: Yeah. Yep. And then you just breathe it. And for 5 to 10 minutes, sort of, a day.

Dr Levy: Yeah.

Lisa: Yeah. And if you've got a cold or something like that, it would help or flow things like that.

Dr Levy: That sounds grandiose. But I want to say to anybody that's listening, if you have this device, if you have your peroxide, you need never suffer from a cold or respiratory virus again, which also means influenza or flu. Wow, you should never suffer from that again. I don't know. I can't make it any clearer than that.

Lisa: No, that's amazing.

Dr Levy: But once you have the nebulizer, you know, how much the vitamin C cost? To heal your cold or flu? Less than 10 cents.

Lisa: Really? Like the vitamin C side of things?

Dr Levy: No, it's much cheaper than vitamin C.

Lisa: The hydrogen peroxide.Okay, so, hydrogen peroxide and vitamin C...

Dr Levy: And if people want protocols or articles, you could give them my email. I don't I don't try to hide from people who I get all upset and agitated about something. And I mean, I can't do consultations. But if people want information, a little guidance, you can give them my email address.

Lisa: Wow. Are you sure?

Dr Levy: Yeah. No problem. It's been available for many years now.

Lisa: Okay. That's, that's amazing. What is the email address that people can get you on the inductance?

Dr Levy: It’s my initials, T-E, Thomas Edward. Last name, Levy, L-E-V-Y-M-D. televymd@yahoo.com.

Lisa: Wow, that's very, very, very generous of you. Is ozone, because I have been studying ozone as well. I've got a home ozone machine here. Is it—that’s related to hydrogen peroxide too?

Dr Levy: Yes, it’s interesting. Hydrogen peroxide, ozone, ultraviolet light, hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Yep, they're all basically doing the same thing, just but by different routes and different points of access. Well, I gotta say it for the peroxide too. But ozone is probably, if you had to pick one, the single most potent anti pathogen agent, there is. You put ozone in the presence of a pathogen, pathogen’s gone. Okay. But most of these therapies that I'm telling you about have an equal impact if you apply them correctly.

And of course, the only reason that ozone shouldn't be at the number one on top of the list is, access, ozone machine, position, control. What I said with hydrogen peroxide, unless you don't have current, you can use batteries, you can do in the Serengeti in Africa. So you can have access everywhere on the planet to—and the other thing too, is even if you don't have a nebulizer, and you're really want to take it down to bare bones, you can take a little spray and spray the back of your throat several times early on, and that will probably do the trick as well, just not as effectively if you've already let it get down into your lungs, whatever the infection is.

But this is, you're using nature's natural antibiotic. Peroxide is produced in every cell of the body in the extracellular space. And it breaks down into water and oxygen what horrible metabolic byproduct.

Lisa: So there's all this whole family of oxidative medicines. I mean, I've studied hyperbaric, I've been in a hyperbaric clinic, I've got ozone here, I'm gonna get the peroxide, I’ll definitely do intravenous vitamin C, and all sorts of vitamin C. These are all in the oxidative family and they all have the ability to get more oxygen delivered to the cells and more nutrients, in the case of vitamin C, to the cells. So they all have a very similar basis or mechanism of action, don't they?

Dr Levy: Yes

Lisa: And this is why they work on such a broad spectrum, from corona to cancer in the powerful agents, because I think the pharmaceutical, they don't like broad spectrum things either. Because if you've got something that can fix that, but that and that as well, then ‘Oh, I can't possibly be right. And we can't sell the drug for this, for this, for this if we’ve got that’. And then for this oxidative medicine family it’s just being ignored across the board. So ozone is also facing the same issues. Hyperbaric is facing the same issues. As is vitamin C. I haven't studied UV radiation, but that's next on my radar as well. So it's the same problem right across.

And I have seen with my latest book, telling the story with my mom, bringing her back, that hyperbaric oxygen therapy was a massive part of her brain's recovery. We could get oxygen to the cells. I got into vitamin C later in the piece, and she has an intravenous vitamin C, every week. And we do six grams a day for her orally, as well. And my mom is now 79, and she was at 74 and a half. Or she's turning 79. And we were told she would never do anything, again, never have any quality of life, put her in an institution and she'll be gone within a few months very likely. And I just absolutely refuse to believe this. And not—even though I'm not a doctor, I was able to find all these great things by accessing great minds like yourself, reading the books, doing the hard yards, doing the thousands of hours of retraining the brain, and doing the research, doing the hard yards. And now I've got my mum back.

And so that really makes me want to fight for people too, because I get frustrated. I've lost a friend this week to cancer. I've lost parents of friends a few weeks ago. People, unfortunately, when I go to tell them something and send them off in the right area of research very often go, ‘No, my doctor says, ‘That's rubbish. And therefore I'm not listening to you’’.

Dr Levy: But I just said let me put a little punctuation mark and an exclamation point of what I just said. But if everybody on the planet had access to hydrogen peroxide nebulization and started doing it, there wouldn't be a single case of coronavirus on the planet in a week.

Lisa: Wow, wow. That's a really big call. So we should be getting this in our arsenal at home right now, all around the world, because this is something that's achievable, easy, cheap, and something that we can do proactively. Are there any dangers with people doing peroxide, can we overdose? Can we do anything?

Dr Levy: Only if you start going to very high concentrations, anything that's pro-oxidant. And obviously hydrogen peroxide is pro-oxidant. Because it's killing the pathogens. You're not killing the pathogens with an antioxidant effect. If you continue on high dose peroxide, yeah, you can start causing oxidative damage, just like with anything else. But at 3% or below, the only thing you might notice if you're doing too much is you might start getting a little irritation in the nose, a little soreness in the throat where you've really gone too far. But only because you've killed all the pathogens. And now you're starting to irritate the normal tissue.

Lisa: Right? So with ozone it's different. So like with ozone, you can't breathe ozone.

Dr Levy: You can take it just about anywhere else but the lungs don't like the ozone at all. And the interesting thing too is I told you, too, about peroxide breaking down to water and oxygen, if you use an oximeter. And you read it about 95 and then you start to nebulize after 30 seconds to a minute, you're going to start seeing that oxygenation level go up 96, 97, 98, 99, sometimes 100.

Lisa: Wow, that is absolutely—I've got oximeter coming up because breathing techniques are another thing that can actually change your whole chemistry in your body with carbon dioxide and so on. This is also a very interesting and powerful mechanism I don't know if you're aware of the work of Patrick McKeown, the great book The Oxygen Advantage, and again it's helping the body use its own mechanisms, breathing in this case, to optimize the delivery of oxygen by raising our tolerance to carbon dioxide levels, which has been a very fascinating read that I'll be covering off in another episode.

Dr Levy you've—just before I let you go because I know we’ve recorded on for a few while [1:05:36] and covered a lot of ground. I heard you talk in one of your lectures and I haven't read this book yet The Magnesium Reversing Disease. Briefly touch, was in the Death By Calcium book as well. This was news to me, that calcium—if we start there—calcium, we need in the body is an essential nutrient, but if it's in the wrong places, we can be running into trouble and this is causing...

Dr Levy: It’s a toxic nutrient. Iron, copper, and calcium are your three toxic nutrients. You absolutely need them in low levels. And above those levels, they're all absolutely toxic. Okay, so every disease cell, I don't care what the disease is—whether it’s an infection, toxin, lupus, scleroderma—every disease cell has increased intracellular oxidative stress, which is always caused by calcium.

Increase the calcium, you increase the stress and then magnesium is the yin and yang. You increase your magnesium, you decrease your calcium, They’re physiological antagonists. That's why magnesium is, hey this may shock some, people your most important single supplement. Because when you're magnesium deficient, nothing can substitute for magnesium and most people are deficient. But let's say you're deficient in vitamin C, you can partially compensate by taking other antioxidants.

So when people like to just play well, ‘What's your most important oxidant, supplement’? Yeah, magnesium. Of course, I'm going to take vitamin C and vitamin D and vitamin K, too, as well, and iodine. But magnesium is the only one that cannot be substituted—for well, vitamin D can be substituted for either—but a magnesium deficiency causes many diseases and makes all diseases worse.

Lisa: Is there a good type of magnesium? Because there’s like carbonate, threonate…

Dr Levy: You know the really good ones, you have the anion and you have the cation. Okay, you've got the magnesium, the cation, and the anion can be of no consequence or major consequence of clinical impact on your body as well. Magnesium Chloride, interestingly, is extremely important in inhibiting and eradicating infections, especially viral. So I'm going to talk about coronavirus. I say your magnesium supplementation should be in the magnesium chloride form. You know when you're dealing with a brain problem, well then your magnesium three and eight, that gets across the blood brain barrier well. But all of the glycinate and the carbonate, they all have their own unique features. And it's just a question of what else you want to take along with it.

Lisa: So you take a mixture of different types of magnesium perhaps to cover all your bases ideally. Yeah...

Dr Levy: If they’re not covered within the supplements. Yes.

Lisa: Okay, so 600 to 1000 milligrams, I've heard you say is a good, is it correct?

Dr Levy: Yeah, that's about right. The thing is the magnesium is like the vitamin C orally. You take too much, too quick, you get the asthmatic diarrhea and the loose bowels. So you're probably never going to take enough magnesium if you take a one single dose a day rather than spreading it out. Because if you spread it out, you can get a lot more in without causing the loose bowel

Lisa: That’s why you get the diarrhea. So go to that point but just before diarrhea and then have this intermittently throughout the day. You mentioned iron as being a new—essential nutrient but a toxic and higher doses. I'm a little bit concerned because I have suffered with anemia my entire athletic career so I've been an extreme endurance athlete. and I've taken a lot of Iron. Have I done myself damage?

Dr Levy: No, you do a lot of aerobic and you do a lot of sweating. And the one study they show way back then was, roughly 50% of young, athletic men and women in different schools in different sports, were able to push them themselves into an iron deficiency anemia by the end of their athletic season. Which it just reflects how much iron you can lose in your sweat. So without looking at your ferritin levels, I would say statistically speaking, unless you just took a ton of iron, you're probably still in a nice low range of iron because of the fact that sweating is part of your lifestyle.

But you should never supplement iron unless you have, got an anemia. But an iron deficiency anemia. Which is not just any old anemia, it has to be an anemia, secondary to iron deficiency, which has a characteristic morphology, what's called hypochromic and microcytic. Tiny, tiny, blood—tiny blood cells with small amounts of hemoglobin inside, that's an iron deficiency anemia. And then you only take enough iron to get your blood level back to normal because you don't want your ferritin going above say 35, 25, 30 or so.

Lisa: Wow. Okay, so mine in my mind is always, you know, hovered around the 10 to 12. And it's always been good.

Dr Levy: But, the 10 to 12 probably indicates that your anemia was iron deficient. So, just without knowing about detail, it sounds like you're minimal and taking the iron was appropriate for your particular condition.

Lisa: Yeah, because I was constantly as an athlete, of course, my ability to carry oxygen, with my hemoglobin being low. And my, iron deficiency, it was always a problem for a competitive athlete, because you just couldn't have the lungs or the ability to carry enough oxygen. Okay, and iodine, is there a danger? Because I've heard Dr Brownstein talk about the essential nature of iodine. If someone has Hashimoto’s, is that a caveat for having iodine though? Because I gave my mother iodine, and she has Hashimoto's.

Dr Levy: I can't get a yay or nay on that. I'm not really an expert on that particular thing. So, my inclination is, it's still fine to take the iodine, but I don't have a sophisticated level of knowledge on that. So I don't want to give you an absolute—it's important though, with thyroiditis, inflammation, autoimmune, all autoimmune comes from oral infections.

Lisa: Oh, okay.

Dr Levy: So the teeth, the gums, the sinuses and the tonsils. In one way or another, with your thyroid gland draining all the garbage in your mouth. It's like a toxin screen for everything that's in your mouth.

Lisa: Okay, so get your mouth cleaned up, get your hydrogen peroxide, get your teeth looked at, all that sort of stuff. When we’re going to our dentist, who isn't Hal Huggins? What are we asking them to look for apart from amalgam fillings being removed? That's an obvious one. But so I've got root canals. Have I got an issue there? You know, what are we looking for? Is it something that they've put into it? I haven't read Dr Huggins book.

Dr Levy: Well, first of all, 100% of root canals are infected. They're all infected, okay? Because they take out the nerve and the blood supply. So there's no way the body can keep the tooth sterile up there, that's just not a possibility. And this has been documented with toxicological studies and over a 5,000 consecutive extracted root canals that Dr Haley—Dr Boyd Haley—and Dr Huggins did.

Now if your thyroid status is perfect, if your supplementation is perfect, if your CRP is perfect, well below one, like below point five. And interval change shows that the level of infection in your root canal is not changing, they can be of inconsequential impact on your health, but that's a really small percentage. And we're talking about a perfect reverse T3 T3 ratio. Because when that gets out of balance, infections metastasize, just like cancer metastasized. The title of my book Hidden Epidemic, the subtitle is, Silent Oral Infections Cause Most Heart Attacks and Breast Cancers.

Lisa: Okay, yeah.

Dr Levy: So you send me an email, I'll send you the e-book on there. Because what you need is a 3D Cone Beam examination of the mouth. Because many times even other teeth can be affected but do not hurt.

Lisa: That's got me really concerned because I got a really, you know, got a whole lot of implants too.

Dr Levy: That's where the 3D would be important too, because it could tell you whether the implants are stable or infected.

Lisa: Okay. Wow. So people, Hidden Epidemic get that book as well. You've got a lot of readings after this episode. Dr Thomas Leavy, you've been absolutely amazing. I really just thank you and honor you for your work, the passion you bring, the compassion that you bring, it's phenomenal. And I just wish there were more people like you on the planet. So thank you, so, so much for everything.

Dr Levy: You've done a lot of passion in this too. So...

Lisa: I do.

Dr Levy: We're doing it together.

Lisa: Yeah,I'll put my two cents and make a difference in this world. And hopefully we can make it a better place for people.

So if people want to reach out to Dr Levy, in his website and his email, we'll put in the show notes website is peakenergy.com. Go and get those books Curing the Incurable, The Magnesium Reversing Disease, Death by Calcium, Primal Panacea, The Toxic Tooth. There's so many, there's 11, I can't say them. You probably can't say them. Go and get some of them. Start reading, start learning, start educating yourself, and take responsibility for your health. Any last words Dr Levy?

Dr Levy: Well, we touched upon it earlier, but just that people realize, it is difficult, I know when you're sick, you're frightened. You don't want to be thinking a lot. You just want to put yourself in the hands of somebody and let them take off with it. All I could say is that's a mistake. You got to collect yourself. Deal with your emotions. Talk to some family and good friends. Start your own research track and be the captain of your health care.

Lisa: Love it. And that is everything that I believe in and stand for in a nutshell. Take as much control as your heart can. Even if you're not a doctor, even if you don't have a background, we have access through things like this podcast to get the best information and be proactive in your health. Be preventative, not the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. And if you are in deep trouble, make sure you are vigilant. Make sure you ask questions. And if you get pushed back from the doctors, find another doctor, if you can.

Okay, Dr Levy, thank you so much for your time. It's been absolutely amazing.

Dr Levy: Very good. Thank you for having me, Lisa.

That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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This week Lisa sits down with Major League Baseball Player/ Ironman Athlete and Business Coach Andy Neary to discover how Andy has taken the habits and rituals he used to compete in professional baseball and Ironman racing to help business professionals EXCEL IN BUSINESS AND LIFE. When you mix discipline with accountability, you create massive action! The work you put in when no one is watching is the key to professional success. Andy's Bio Andy Neary is a former Professional Baseball Player, a two-time Ironman finisher, Business Coach, and Founder of the Complete Game coaching program. Andy's mission is to help business professionals build the mindset, habits, and rituals "off the field" that lead to all-star performance on it. It's about developing a #majorleaguemindset. As an undersized athlete, Andy's ability to master the daily habits and rituals helped him far exceed expectations on the Pitcher's mound. He attributes all the work he put in when no one was watching, to his successful college career and the opportunity to pitch at baseball's highest level. With discipline and accountability anything is possible.

    Completing an Ironman race is one of the most grueling tasks on the planet. Swimming 2.4 miles, biking 112 miles, and running a marathon (26.2 miles) in one race, requires a clear mind and high-performing body. To "show up" on race day, one must put in consistent daily work on the bike, the road, and in the pool. Andy attributes his success in Ironman competitions to the same daily habits and rituals he applied to his professional baseball career. You can find out more about Andy and his work at www.andyneary.com   **We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:**

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this weeks episode Lisa sits down to talk with Joe Cohen serial entrepreneur, biohacker, genetics expert and founder of Self Decode a genetic testing website, Lab Test Analyzer and SelfHacked.com They dive deep into DNA and what it can teach us about ourselves and how to use the latest in scientific information about our genes to improve our daily lives, prevent disease and improve our health. If you are not knowledgeable about your specific genes you are just guessing in everything that affects your health. From your diet to supplements, to exercise to mood and behaviour influences, to gut health to detox abilities to cardiovascular health, even through to medications. This world is not a "one size fits all" and having such an approach can never help us optimise our lives, our performance and health. Learn how you can discover what your genes are doing and how to interpret them using the fantastic program and tools Joe and his team of scientists have put together. You can find out more at https://selfdecode.com/?a_aid=lisatamati and use the code Lisa10 at checkout and if you want help with your results and implementing a personalised approach to your health visit Lisa and her team at www.lisatamati.com or email support@lisatamati.com for details on working with them. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Wouldn't it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise? Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents. These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalised health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with! No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research. The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home. In this episode Lisa and Neil discuss how they use the program to help people optimise their health, performance and well-being. For more information on the epigenetics health program visit https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/ or to join Lisa and Neil on their next live epigenetics webinar register at https://epigenetics.lisatamati.com/ We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this interview Lisa sits down with one of the most successful running coaches in America Jason Fitzgerald of Strength Running. Jason is a USATF certified coach and he and Lisa whose running training philosophies collide get deep into the weeds about what makes up a good running program, how to listen to your body, why mindset is so important and how strength and mobility work is an integral part of running success. Jason has a wealth of knowledge and with a PB in the marathon of 2:39 he also walks the talk. www.strengthrunning.com and check out his blog on common mindset mistakes: https://strengthrunning.com/2020/06/mindset-traps-mental-self-sabotage/ About Jason: Jason Fitzgerald is the host host of the Strength Running Podcast and the founder of Strength Running, an award-winning running blog with hundreds of thousands of monthly readers. A 2:39 marathoner and USATF-certified coach, he's coached thousands of endurance athletes to faster finishing times and fewer injuries with his results-oriented coaching philosophy. He's the winner of the 2011 Morraine Hills Half Marathon, 2012 Maryland Warrior Dash, and the 2013 Potomac River Run Marathon. During his collegiate career, he was a member of the 2002 National Championship-qualifying cross-country team and a top ten finisher in the steeplechase at the 2006 New England Championships.

Jason is a member of the Greatist Expert Network, a speaker for industry conferences and major brands like Anheuser-Busch, and an instructor at adult fitness retreats and running camps. His work has been featured in the Washington Post, Runner's World, Health Magazine, Lifehacker, The Huffington Post, and other major media.

He lives in Denver, Colorado where you can find him trail running in the nearby Flatirons or at the playground with his wife and three children.

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

Recently Lisa had her own DNA tested doing a comprehensive Genome report and Hormone report - testing offered by The DNA Company (www.thednacompany.com) and in this episode Dr Mansoor explains Lisa's genomic results and the implications for her health. The depth of the normal report means they only got to touch on a few of the gene results but the full comprehensive genomic report covers areas like: * Cardiovascular health * Mood and behaviour genes * Methylation genes * Metabolism genes * Hormones

The insights garnered from these reports can help you avoid the possible major problems that could be coming your way if you aren't aware of them. This information is by no means fatalistic or deterministic but rather to empower the individual to be aware of where certain risk factors lie and how you implement the diet, lifestyle and exercises changes required to avoid problems further down the track. Hormone Report with The DNA Company If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.

The Report can be purchased here: https://www.mydnacompany.com/products/lisa-tamati-and-the-dna-company-female-male-hormone-profile Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.

For any questions, please email lisa@lisatamati.com.

WHAT IS FUNCTIONAL GENOMICS?

Functional genomics is the study of how our genome interacts with the world around us. Because it's not just about where you come from. It's about where you can go.
Through a simple sample of your saliva, The Dna company are able to extract the information they need to provide you with a customized health report. To order a report contact support@lisatamati.com to arrange testing today. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

View Details

This week Lisa shares her insights into what Heavy metal poisoning is.

It is the accumulation of various heavy metals in your body. Environmental and industrial factors expose you to high levels of heavy metals every day, including the foods you eat and air you breathe.

Some of these metals — such as zinc, copper, and iron — are good for you in small amounts. But overexposure can lead to heavy metal poisoning over time.

Heavy Metals damage our bodies and brains in so many ways and none of us living in this toxic soup environment of our world is immune to it's effects so what can we do to support our bodies in detoxifying from things like Mercury, Arsenic, Lead, Cadmium, Thallium and co. In this webinar Lisa shares her heavy metal detox methods and what you need to be careful about.

Symptoms of heavy metal toxicity vary depending on the type of metal you're overexposed to. Mercury, lead, arsenic and cadmium are some of the more common overexposed metals.

Acute symptoms associated with these metals include:

  • headaches
  • abdominal pain and cramping
  • nausea
  • vomiting
  • diarrhea
  • fatigue
  • difficulty breathing

In more severe cases of chronic heavy metal poisoning, you may experience symptoms including:

  • burning and tingling sensations
  • chronic infections
  • brain fog
  • visual disturbances
  • insomnia
  • paralysis

This Webinar was developed as part of Lisa's new Brain Optimisation course.

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/pag...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatam... for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this interview Lisa and Dr Wayne delve deep into what Prolotherapy is and how it can be used with joint, tendon and ligament problems, what Prolozone is, what Ozone therapy is, it's mechanisms of actions and much more. With nearly 30 years experience Dr McCarthy has used these therapies on thousands of patients and teachers other doctors and medical specialists in these therapies. You can find out more at https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/ Prolotherapy & Prolozone therapy Prolotherapy is a non-invasive, cost-effective solution to many problems associated with the wear and tear of joints and back problems. Especially effective with knee and shoulder damage and lower back issues.

An injection of dextrose and lidocaine are used to perform prolotherapy. The injection is given into damaged tissue (ligaments and tendons) which causes it to inflame and then heal. In the healing process more strength is added to bony connections.

Ligaments hold joints firmly so they move in correct alignment. Tendons attach muscles to bones. Tearing of ligaments and tendons off bones causes sloppy joint movement and pain.

Prolozone involves injecting ozone into the painful or inflamed areas, similar to prolotherapy.

Once repaired non-surgically with prolotherapy, muscles can then strengthen around the joint. Once the joint is strong, it remains so unless another accidental injury occurs. Prolotherapy increases circulation and nutrients that help tissue repair itself. This collagen strengthening technique can be used for all joint injuries, old or new.

Ozone Therapy

What might it do for you? Essentially ozone restores oxygen saturation to the body's tissues. With any form of illness the oxygen levels drop and if they get depressed 40% below normal cancer is encouraged to grow. Low oxygen signals fatigue, usually becoming chronic. The oxidative (Life Force) power of the body is reduced and metabolism goes down to a less efficient level. Conversely, when the oxygen saturation is returned to normal there is a strong chance of recovery of normal physiological function i.e.: A return to better health.

Ozone therapy is unsurpassed as a method of oxygenation and is a cousin of hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Six treatments are required to receive the ozone effect and as metabolism improves vastly resulting benefits are very long lasting.

Using the body's own inherent self-healing properties to regenerate tissue in the body. Ancient systems of medicine such as acupuncture and manipulative medicine have tapped into this capability to varying degrees by enhancing blood flow, nerve conduction and oxygenation to areas that need to be healed. As our understanding of the body's own mechanisms for healing has matured, we have developed new techniques with a more robust healing potential.

In the field of Musculoskeletal Medicine, Prolotherapy, using a concentrated Dextrose (corn sugar) solution injected at the area requiring regeneration, can initiate the healing response. The first phase of healing is inflammation, where the blood flow to the area is increased bringing white blood cells to clean up the area and platelets with growth factors to stimulate stem cells to regenerate tissue.

The next evolution of Prolotherapy involves isolating the growth factors found in platelets and white blood cells in the blood and injecting them directly into the area to be healed. This is called Platelet Rich Plasma. Platelet Rich Plasma can be used to stimulate regeneration of muscles, tendons, ligaments, and cartilage, and it can also be used for a variety of aesthetic conditions like hair regrowth, facial regeneration and scars.

Dr.Wayne McCarthy N.D. is a Naturopathic Physician.

Wayne's background is as a practicing Naturopath in New Zealand until moving to the U.S.A in 1989, where he furthered his education and training by going to a private medical school in Oregon called National College of Naturopathic Medicine. After graduation Wayne was licensed as a primary care physician in Hawaii where he practiced for 15 years.

Wayne is registered with NZNMA, and certified by Natural Health Practitioners of New Zealand in Naturopathy, Nutrition and Herbal Medicine.

Email Wayne, Waipu Clinic: 09 432 1325

Websites https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/

and https://nehc.co.nz/

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

If you like this week's podcast, we would love you to give us a rating and review if you could. That really, really helps to show get more exposure on iTunes

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Today, I have the wonderful Dr Wayne McCarthy, who is a Naturopathic physician primary care physician up in Whangarei in New Zealand and works at the Waipu health center. He is a specialist once again, in ozone therapy. We've done a couple of episodes on ozone, but Dr. Mccarthy uses ozone in a couple of different ways, as well as the standard practices. And he shares today a little bit about Prolozone. He also talks about prolotherapy, which is all about fixing a joint and ligament and tendon damage. So if you're struggling with an injury that you can't fix, you want to tune into this episode. We also talk about his approach to natural health and how long he's been doing ozone therapy, all the things that he's studied around the world. So a really great episode, especially off the back of last week with dr.

Speaker 2: (01:10)
Tim Ewer, who I head on another integrative medical specialists. And you know, I think between the two of them, these two doctors both in New Zealand are absolutely fantastic people to be listening to and finding out about more. So I hope you enjoy this interview with dr. Wayne McCarthy. Who's given up a Sunday morning to do this with us. So I was very, very lucky. Before we hit over to dr. Wayne just want to remind you, my book relentless is now out and available. It's available in bookstores throughout New Zealand. It's also available internationally on Amazon, on audio books or the audio book platforms as a Kindle, as an ebook, pretty much you name it, it's out there. You can find it on my website at lisatamati.com. Also. It's yeah, it's been out there for a few weeks and now that we were at a COVID, if you want to just pop into your local bookstore or store, if you're in New Zealand, you can do that.

Speaker 2: (02:04)
And just a reminder, too, that every couple of weeks we're holding a live webinar about epigenetics health program. This is all about utilizing your genes and understanding your genes and how to optimize your genes for your, for your optimum health, from nutrition, right through to your social environment, your work environment. This is absolutely powerful wellness program that we're using in the corporate setting. It's also very good for individuals, for athletes wanting optimum performance, as it covers off every area from your nutrition, your exercise, right through to your how your brain works, your dominant hormones and neurotransmitters, your it's, everything, everything is covered covered on this. It's a really a amazing program that we're delighted to be able to deliver your, you you can join us for that live webinar, which we're holding pretty much every second week the moment you can find out when the next one is at epigenetics.lisatamati.com. Okay. EPIGENETICS.Lisatamati.com if you want to find out anymore.

Speaker 2: (03:12)
Let me know. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review because that really helps the show get exposure. And on that point, I just want to thank you all for those who have listened to have done ratings or have done reviews, because we're now ranked as one of the top 200 podcasts globally for in the health and fitness genre. So I'm really, really appreciative. It's a combination of five years of hard work, and we're really, really stoked to be in that top 200. So thank you to everyone who has done a rating and review or share this with your friends and made that happen. Now over to the show with Dr. Wayne McCarthy.

Speaker 3: (03:54)
Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with a lovely day, Dr. Wayne McCarthy, who is sitting up near Whangarei who is the a founder of the Waipu natural health, and also is a doctorate, the natural environmental health clinic. Welcome to the show dr. Wayne.

Speaker 4: (04:19)
Good morning, Lisa. Nice to be here with you.

Speaker 3: (04:22)
It's fantastic. I've Sunday morning, no less cutting into your family time. So I really, really appreciate you coming on the show today, but we had a fantastic discussion yesterday. So I've been really, really excited to talk to dr. Wayne today and to share some of his insights and some of the work that he's doing in his clinics. Dr. Wayne, Can you give us a little bit of a background on, on who you are and what you do?

Speaker 4: (04:49)
I'm in New Zealand, I started life as a natural path osteopath. I went to

Speaker 3: (04:58)
The

Speaker 4: (04:59)
Natural therapies college in Ellis Lee, and then after five years in practice, I went to America and got an opportunity to go to national college of naturopathic medicine in Portland, Oregon, where I trained and studied and also taught. And then I got licensed as a naturopathic doctor in state of Hawaii where I practiced for 15 years. Wow. so in America we call primary care doctors, but we're working as a GP would work here in New Zealand.

Speaker 3: (05:35)
hmm.

Speaker 4: (05:36)
During that study at a national college of naturopathic medicine. I met James Hutton who was a year ahead of me as a student, but he was the understudy of dr. William Tesco. Now William Tesco was a naturopathic medical doctor. One of the first doctors to come to America from Germany. He was an ozone doctor. He wrote the first papers on bio oxidation. And I think of bio oxidation as the life force, if you want to sort of give it a lay term. And he was the understudy of Dr. Tesco. So he was telling me about ozone while I was at medical school. And then when I graduated, he taught me how to do ozone therapy. From that time forward, ozone therapy became my main therapy and I just, it's what I do with every person I treat. And that's how I got the name, dr. Ozone back then, 25 years later, I got an opportunity to go and train with in Russia.

Speaker 4: (06:39)
Initially Novgorod 500 K's East of Moscow with professor oly and professor Claudia of consortia Kovar, the mother and father of those own therapy and Russia. Now, the important thing about Russia is that they've been using ozone for decades in their hospital system, across all their medical specialties, oncology, gynecology, obstetrics, neurology, dermatology, pain, medicine, burns, and many other areas, neurology. So they've had the, they've done the most research of any country in the, in the world. And I trained with them for two weeks. It was one on one and I had a, a Russian lady Eugenia, Shasta Kober. Who's my interpreter. And I'm still in touch with her. We communicate regularly. She sends me information on Russian research. I collaborate with then two years ago, I went and trained with dr. Adriana Schwarz in Honduras, but she also works out in Madrid. She's the president of the international medical ozone Federation and the secretary for the international scientific committee on ozone therapy of which I'm a member. And our mandate is to improve and update the Madrid declaration, which is the world standard on how to use ozone medically.

Speaker 3: (08:12)
Fantastic. Okay. So ozone therapy my listeners have heard a little bit about ozone therapy at all, but you are, you know, dr. Ozone, as you say, in New Zealand, you've been practicing this for over 30 years.

Speaker 4: (08:27)
I've been practicing for 27 years since 1993

Speaker 3: (08:33)
In the law. I want to go into some of the therapies that you use and what's actually happening with the ozone. Like I know that you said to me yesterday, you're trying to get it into the mainstream and New Zealand. How, how has that looking

Speaker 4: (08:48)
It's already starting to happen because we have GPS around the country starting to pick up train with us and use ozone therapy because I'm, I'm in Amer the Australasian integrated medicines association. And basically these are like-minded doctors, GPS mostly, but there are natural paths in there as well. So we're really having to greater the medical and the naturopathic through this association. And there's a lot of holistic medical doctors. And so this is sort of my clan. And if you will pick up my only naturopathic doctor in New Zealand, there might be some others, but really, I think I'm the only one just by the mere fact that nobody else has gone and trained in America where I did. Yep, exactly. Okay. So this is great because it means ozone. It is it's hopefully going to be accepted into the mainstream soon because in 12 countries where ozone has been regularized, and we believe we have all the documentation to go to our ministry of health and say, here's a new therapy.

Speaker 4: (10:00)
We want you to regulate it. They would look at all the work we've done and they'd go, well, you haven't left much for us to do this already. Self-Regulated, you've done a really good job. We know, yeah, you've really done the race. Now we can start to train other people. So I've trained two natural cats that now work with me. But they've upgraded to be ozone experts. All the ozone therapies are done intravenously or by injection. So it's always needles, but it's a feel good therapy. It leaves people with an overwhelming sense of wellbeing. And the primary function of it is to saturate the body with oxygen. This will do several things. It will improve athletic performance by giving the athlete the five to 8% endurance advantage, which means that it prolongs the time of maximum anaerobic output before you hit the wall and I've worked with triathletes and the iron man in Hawaii, and I've worked with many other athletes would chop those canoeists Walker, armor, paddlers people who are doing tennis, some of our out Ines players and New Zealand and swimmers.

Speaker 4: (11:29)
And of course you work with every form of illness that comes our way. We do see quite a few people that have various forms of cancers and the primary cause of cancer, doctor Otto Warburg won two Nobel prizes. And he proved that the primary cause of cancer is a lack of oxygen. The tissues, wow. Though, the respiratory enzymes have been toxified and therefore the body cannot process oxygen. So what we do is we saturate the body with oxygen, removing the prime cause of all cancers. So that's all I really want to say about that. That's the rationale we don't, we don't actually treat diseases. You support health. We treat people when we treat people and we're just pushing them toward greater health by restoring their bio oxidate of capacity in the body. As you know, the main cause of a lot of underlying the underlying cause of most chronic diseases is a chronic inflammation, which is free radical damage, ozone reverses, free, radical damage.

Speaker 4: (12:51)
Wow. So that's the key point of it. And it also, so it's oxygen is three and it's we talked briefly yesterday about it being a relation of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is also increasing the amount of oxygen getting to tissues. That's right. So hyperbaric oxygen, H202, which is hydrogen peroxide, vitamin C therapy, high dose intravenous and ozone therapy, intravenous they're all in a family called bio oxidate of therapies and hyperbaric oxygen. We use it it, that is better for central nervous system injuries, brain damaged spinal cord ozone is better on infection and improving circulation. So they have some overlap. I've chosen to do exclusively ozone therapy for the fact that it's cheaper to administer. It's a lot more readily available and it's a lot more versatile because I can treat the blood with it, but I can also inject it into joints or I can inject it into pain and pain is shortage of oxygen in the body.

Speaker 4: (14:10)
What we've learned as ozone therapists, where we inject those own pain will go really. So I can just sort of go into a little bit of that on the sports or athletics side, I feel like we'll sort of go, well, I'll start with the ozone therapy. So where does pain in the muscles? We can inject those zone and saturate those tissues with oxygen that will remove the lactic acid. And the athletes will have a faster recovery from their training and we saturate the blood and the body so that the is processing oxygen much more efficiently, which gives us a higher prolong, physical energy output during sports, the international Olympic committee. I have read their documentation on blood doping and, and how we can't cheat. You know, we're not, we're not supposed to cheat. So their ruling basically is ozone could be used for a medical purpose with an athlete during times when they're training.

Speaker 4: (15:24)
Yes, that's legal to treat an athlete, just cry to a competition would be considered cheating a bit. Not that you could really pick it up, cause I don't think it's terrible in the body. However, they could see that the the saturation of oxygen and their blood would be very high. It would be a bit like a altitude training. Yes. Blood doping or altitude training. It has a very similar effect, which is athletes could do ozone therapy and their training periods to recover from training. But we just wouldn't do it within sort of three or four days before an athletic event. And no one can hear enough. Okay. So how does it increase? Like what is the mechanism by which it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells. Now I understand from the Realogy, Oh, the red blood cell increases the, what would you call it? The pivot, the flexibility of, of the red blood cell is that correct?

Speaker 4: (16:33)
Makes the red cells more pliable, more slippery, more flexible. So they can squeeze through the small cappelary and get to even the hardest to reach tissues. So if you've got damaged or inflamed tissues yeah, that's right. Any kind of injury where you've got inflammation, swelling, pain. Mmm. We save limbs from amputation with those own. Wow. Because we restore a good blood flow. Also the red cell, we increase a enzyme on the red cell called two, three di phospho glycerides two to three DPG. We call it what that does is it weakens the bond between hemoglobin and oxygen. What this means is blood flowing through the lungs will still pick up at school compliment of oxygen, but it will release it to the tissues a lot more easily. It's like a, it's like a wind that's blowing into the tissues rather than having to pull the oxygen off the red cell with osmosis, trying to use energy to tug it off.

Speaker 4: (17:48)
The blood's just good sort of way more freely. And in this way we saturate the body with oxygen. I believe it's the only way of doing it. Unless you have a hyperbaric chamber and this would be a really powerful combination I can see. So it's, it's pushing, it's basically pushing the oxygen into the tissues as opposed to it having to be pulled. Now, like as someone like that, I'm an athlete. Mmm. I've had problems constantly with anemia and not enough red blood cells. Mmm. And getting enough oxygen carrying capacity to work the muscles. Does it help with that? Or is that, it's just that that's an independent thing because number of blood cells, no, I'll speak to that issue, Lisa, because we see people that are me anemic often kicks, you know, they're wasting away. Yep. They've got bone marrow suppression, not producing enough red cells or white cells or just whatever it might be.

Speaker 4: (18:46)
But when we treat with the, when we treat the blood where those zone, where rejuvenating the bone marrow. Wow. And so the bone marrow starts to produce, what's called super gifted red cells. And that's actually the scientific term, super gifted. So real knife gifted, dr. Bilio Bachi Theo CCI. He wrote the book ozone, a new medical drug. And I work with dr. Adriana Schwarz, who was Dr. Bachi Sort of Lieutenant right hand person, you know, his protege really. And she's now leading the charge around the world, promoting ozone therapy, God gives excellent courses. Where was I going with this? You were talking about the Realogy and the, the, the really bad cells, the red blood cells coming out of the bone marrow are called super gifted, which means they're more resistant to oxidative stress and they're better at delivering oxygen around the body.

Speaker 4: (19:53)
So even when we've stopped and ozone, even though we've done a course of, let's say six to eight ozone therapies, let's say we're treating a person for a condition after six to eight ozone therapies. We've usually established a healthy bone marrow production of red cells overcome anemia. Wow. And the person is starting to feel a lot more energetic and the overnights will last for six months in the body. So they just have to realize ozone is a very reactive molecule. So when we're treating blood, the ozone has reacted with the red cell within nanoseconds, it's gone, it's undetectable and it becomes a nose annoyed. It becomes a nose denied, which is a weaker form of ozone. Or we have a it's more durable and they last six months, wow. Are there for after we finished the course of those own therapy, the patient basically to put it sort of bluntly gets their money's worth during the six to eight treatments. Cause they feel great. And their blood work's usually improving. However, over the next six months, they will be continued improvements even though we've stopped the treatment because the theology of the body has improved. We've blown all the cobwebs out of the bio oxidate of pathways or the hundreds of enzymatic pathways in the body, such that the biochemistry is now working perfectly or optimally. And remember oxygen is the primary, primary nutrients for optimum health. Absolutely.

Speaker 4: (21:42)
It's used at every step of every chemical reaction in the body. And we see that the underlying reason for chronic illness is the body is not processing oxygen.

Speaker 3: (21:56)
It's just what you see. And this isn't, Oh, well, I'll just take a big, deep breath of air. And then there I go, I've got my oxygen back. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Isn't it?

Speaker 4: (22:06)
No, not really. I'd say that people breathe easier. They feel normal again, and they've recovered a healthy metabolism.

Speaker 3: (22:14)
But when I say like we don't take my SPO two sets here at senior level, I'm at 98, 99%. So I'm like, Oh, well my oxygen's okay. I don't need extra oxygen support, but I know with like with hyperbaric, I can get a heck of a lot more like up to 12 times the amount of oxygen and the right and the right.

Speaker 4: (22:37)
Yeah. So what's happening there. Lisa is, you're measuring the SPO2 of the blood. You're measuring the oxygen saturation of the red cells and the blood. And they may be 98 or 99%. However, when we treat somebody we'll often see that 98 or 99% straight after the treatment has dropped down to 95 or 93%, where's all the oxygen gone. We've just poured it into the blood. Where's it gone?

Speaker 4: (23:11)
Well, it's absorbed into the tissues of the body that were desperate for it. And that were low in oxygen. And it's this way that we saturate then very quickly that oxygen level return back up to 99. We know the course of ozone treatment is complete. When a patient comes in they're 98 or 99%, we treat them and the blood is still 98 or 99 cent. It didn't drop. Therefore that tells us the body is saturated. Blood is saturated. They now have what we call the effect and they will stay self saturated at a very optimal level for a very long time.

Speaker 3: (23:53)
Wow. So if, if I want to, you know, like I'm definitely coming to see you, doc, Dwayne, I'm going to bring my mum. Then we're going to get some treatments as soon as I can get up to away. It's a long way away. But w H w over what period of time would, would, it would a person who's traveling to see you? How many, like the six to eight is required? How many do they need sort of back the team they get back to back.

Speaker 4: (24:19)
So over a period, what we do, people that come from South Ireland or Australia or Singapore or overseas, we get people from everywhere. We ask them to come and stay in the Waipu area, and then we'll treat them nearly every day for about a week. Wow. Okay, great. Yup. And we see a lot of chronic conditions where everything else basically is filed. And so therefore we treat people every day. We start with a very low dose of ozone because we're working in millions of a gram. We work between zero and 80 micrograms, which is zero to 80 millions of a gram of Bozon middle of, of oxygen ozone and the syringe. So we're working with micro dosages, but we've got equipment that we can dial up. Yep. 1000000Th of a gram.

Speaker 3: (25:15)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (25:16)
And so we can do one or two or three or up to 80. So we start with very low concentrations. And over the course of the treatment, we build it up to a maximum. So we might go up to maximum for us would be 80 micrograms. And then we drop it off again, the last several treatments back down to about 20 micrograms. So we vary the concentration and the dose in this way, we will, we will be constantly building up the antioxidant capacity or the antioxidant reserve capacity in the body so that that body can now tolerate a higher level of ozone. And so we can build the dose up like that. And that's how we, that's how we pull people up very quickly because we keep increasing their antioxidant capacity. As we increase the dose of those zones, then we drop down at the end, but we leave them with a seriously improved antioxidant capacity, which means we leave them with a permanent or very longterm ability to overcome chronic oxidative stress and or free radical damage.

Speaker 3: (26:26)
Okay. So then, then if you wanted to stick, say other oxidative therapies or vitamin C infusions or other things that would have more of an effect, or even even supplementation with antioxidants or good food would have a better effect on the body.

Speaker 4: (26:40)
So we do do that at Northland environmental health Center where I work with Damien Wojciech and we do high dose vitamin C therapy there, he goes up to 200 grams. Wow. And he does culation therapy and high dose vitamin C therapy as well as being a general practitioner. So collation therapy, some patients come in and they have, you know, vitamin C one day ozone the next vitamin C ozone like that. Wow. Yup. Yup. That's a very good protocol. Fantastic. And he does collation therapy, which is heavy metal detox thing. So I'm hoping I can get him on the podcast as well. That would be fabulous. He's a, that's an area that I think a lot of us need to understand as well. The heavy metal detoxing. Yeah. Dr. Wayne. I wanted to pivot a little bit and go into prolotherapy. We discussed prolotherapy and I was really excited to hear about this yesterday.

Speaker 4: (27:42)
There's something I haven't really being aware of. Can you explain what prolotherapy is? Okay. So we're leaving ozone therapy. Now ozone is for general health improved performance of our bodies. And just before we do leave ozone, go back to it a little bit, but we leave the topic and we're going to prolotherapy, which is proliferance therapy. This is now musculoskeletal. We look, we're talking now about injuries, physical injuries to the joints. Fabulous. What were you gonna say? I was just going to say with the ozone, cause we, we haven't touched on the, the they at home remedies, but we have talked about them in the past. I'd like to address this issue because it's an important one. Two years ago, we formed the ozone therapy association of New Zealand and we're taking applications now. And mostly for doctors we have some nurses, some natural paths.

Speaker 4: (28:53)
But we've also opened it up because we know that there's a lot of people in New Zealand who are practicing those own using what we call lay methods. You use that term it's respectfully used and they're doing all kinds of variations. There can be insufflation of the colon, vaginal insufflation air, insufflation cupping, limb bagging, whole body bagging. There's the hocket, which is the ozone steam sauna. Hmm. Which is actually a very good treatment. And ozone can be used in facial treatments and for beauty therapy with beauty therapists. So what we're looking to do is to regularize the practice of ozone and New Zealand so that these can all have access to a professional body, guide them on safe and effective methods to use at whatever level they're trained. We're inclusive, include everyone that's doing ozone. So that patients, athletes, the interested people who want those zone, I can get it throughout New Zealand, just depending on what their needs might be.

Speaker 4: (30:09)
So quite often what will happen is people will come to us. We'll do the intravenous methods. And then where do you live? Right. You're in Palmerston North. Okay. So let's see, who do we have in Palmerston North? Well, we have people using cockpit, which is the ozone steam cabinet, and we have people doing installations. And so on where the ozone gas is put either into the rectum or the colon very simple, safe, easy to use method or vaginally or other topical way, or you should make ozone oil for rubbing on the skin for dermatological conditions. You can make those, the naked water. You can breathe it. Yep. We also use ozone generators that we get from Kim sex and violence.

Speaker 4: (30:57)
She provides really nice equipment that we can use for ozonating the clinic meeting, any building remove smells or toxic odors and that sort of thing. And so when we were gearing up for the recent epidemic, yes, we were. Ozonating our doctors and nurses and our staff. I was receiving intravenous vitamin C. This is for our protection. And the clinics were being ozonated every morning at 3:00 AM automatically. Yep. With Kim's can Sexton's machines. Fantastic. And therefore we knew we were coming into a sanitized environment and then we treated one suspect that COVID patient. And then we saturated that room with those own immediately afterwards, it was off clinic. It was outside in the carport, the old sauna room. And so we knew that room was now sanitized. So if we had another COVID patient, we'd be able to go into that room, be sanitized. We were safe wearing our PPE, but we can deliver the treatment.

Speaker 4: (32:03)
Fantastic. And we will get up for that. So, and this has been like, just to briefly touch on the Corona situation. There is now proven studies coming out of Spain. The ozone is affecting the client of ours. Yes. There have been clinical trials in China and Spain and the conclusion at the moment. It hasn't all been gone into print yet. I don't think we ever, because we're working with doc date around and Schwartz, she was on the front lines and Spain treating COVID and the reports coming back, or that ozone was effective phenomenally. And what that meant was patients were recovering within 24 to 48 hours after one to two ozone treatments, they were fully recovering. And I think 98% of the patients that were in serious enough conditions that they were going to be put on ventilators. 98% of them did not need to have ventilation.

Speaker 4: (33:06)
Wow. Which is a good thing because nine out of 10 people who get ventilated die. Yeah. It's not really an effective therapy for COVID, but ozone proved to be very effective. We know this because we've been treating all viral conditions since since day one, really a hundred years with it's a hundred years with research and ozone. Now I have to say, it's not the only thing that will do that. High dose vitamin C will do that. I've heard an India homeopathy was very effective. And if you read the journal of the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, I don't know if you know of that, but the New Zealand journal of natural medicine, there's lots of articles in there on other useful natural therapies. And they all work pretty good. So actually there's a plethora of effective treatments that we can use against this horrible thing. That's why we weren't afraid to treat people because we knew we were safe.

Speaker 3: (34:13)
Yup. Yup. And I had dr. Rob dr. Rowan on last week and it's talking about Ebola and his getting shut down, unfortunately. But

Speaker 4: (34:26)
That's right. He went to him and Howard Robbins stopped. The Rowans went to Sierra Leoni and they were invited there by the minister of health. They treated doctors that had got Ebola. Some of them opted for the ozone, all the ones that are all the ones that said yes to ozone therapy, survive all the ones that denied it and said, no, I don't want it. They all died.

Speaker 3: (34:53)
And then he was shut down. Unfortunately,

Speaker 4: (34:55)
When he got shot down, you can't be using effective therapy.

Speaker 3: (34:58)
No, it might mitigate the drug sales. We can't have that comment. Right. Moving right along. Let's talk about therapies, prolotherapy. Cause this is a very,

Speaker 4: (35:14)
Yeah. Sorry. I don't want to confuse everyone. So everyone on the side. Yup. We're on a different topic. We're now looking at joint pain. I'm very excited about Prolotherapy because it will effectively treat all musculoskeletal injuries. It will, it is an effective treatment for all sporting injuries. And it's permanent. This is amazing when you've done product therapy, you'll no longer have knee pain, back pain. Retruding disc pain, low back pain, ankle, elbow, rotator cuff, you know, anything like that, anything where the ligaments tendons are involved in the is involved. That's right. So let's just talk about knees. Cause we see a lot of those. So what we do is somebody comes in, they've had a knee injury, the body is healed, but the injury doesn't go away. It keeps flaring up when we strain that joint. And it's because the ligaments and all the tendons or the cartilage have thinned, you know, if you could imagine stretching a thick, rubber band over a rock and then just tapping it with something sharp or happen, then that rubber will just split.

Speaker 4: (36:36)
It'll still be in tech, but not as strong. Think of your ligaments like that. Now you've got a little bit of a slop in the joint and that's what causes pain. And it's what grinds away the cartilage. So what we can do now is we can do prolotherapy, which is proliferant therapy. And we inject a thick solution of dextrose. So it's a sugar, but it's hypertonic, which means it's extra thick, especially compared to the body fluids. So when we inject that into a ligament, it will stimulate the fibroblasts to create more ligament. Yep. What that means is we thicken and then shorten and tighten that ligament that returns the joint back into its normal alignment. Cause that's what the ligaments do. They hold the joints in the alignment for the movement that joint has to me. Yep. And so we had this week or Lex ligaments, they've stretched, they've torn off the bone partially and it's always easy to find.

Speaker 4: (37:47)
You can just poke on them. They do it. And people jump you inject bet spot. And what will happen is new ligament will grow over a three week period and return 50 to 80% of the strength. Wow. Then we need to repeat it a month later. Again, you'll get 50 to 80% improvement. So after generally two or three treatments, we've got a hundred percent improvement. Wow. At that point it's permanent and you'd no longer have that injury. You no longer have a weakness there. Your mind can let go of the doubt of your ability to use that learning in a maximum athletic, competitive sort of attitude. So you get your confidence back and your athletic performance is not hindered by chronic injuries. And so we treat a lot of athletes and we keep the top people in the game and young, young athletes sometimes in their teens, cause we work with some calm, competitive swimmers and they, you know, they pushing their bodies to the max, pushing the limits. As you say, they get these tears. Now that would, that would slow the down their training. And of course, if you have a week off training, it takes three weeks to get back to where you were, where you had the injury. So you lose five or six weeks really out of your, out of your schedule with product therapy, we can keep those athletes performing without pain. And this is something so simple as, as dextrose.

Speaker 3: (39:30)
This is so is this like reconstructive therapy? I had a,

Speaker 4: (39:34)
Yeah, yeah. It's called injection reconstruction therapy. Cause I had a,

Speaker 3: (39:41)
A boyfriend back in my early twenties who had a very bad ankle injury and he had to go to America for, we construct a therapy. It was called

Speaker 4: (39:50)
Yes. Will be injection reconstruction therapy probably mean it is an American technique. Yep, yep. I did learn it there. Yup.

Speaker 3: (40:00)
And the body's own reaction and info. This is where information is so interesting. Isn't it? Because inflammation, when we, when we cause an injury to the site we've deliberately actually causing and introducing something that's gonna irritate and cause injury. And it sends the body's a body starts to send fiber blast to actually make it stronger. So we're using a game just like with the ozone and with hyperbaric, we're using the body's own resources at the end of this. Right.

Speaker 4: (40:27)
Which is where natural path. So we're, we're always working with the body's own natural healing abilities. And with those own and product therapy, we feel like we can get maximum advantage there. Yup. So we also get a lot of patients often in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, even eighties and nineties who have health conditions and the generative joints it's often called osteoarthritis, which I believe most people think if they're told they have osteoarthritis, they get this idea in their mind that it's something to do with their bones. Yes. Is that your take on that? Yeah. I would say it's inflammation.

Speaker 4: (41:19)
Yeah. Most people would say it's bones. They think it's bones and we think we're bones as well. It's my bones, they're old and they're down and so on and nothing really too much you can do for bones. Well, we, we don't take that point of view. We see osteoarthritis as joint inflammation, so it'll always be the soft tissue, the ligaments, the cartilage and the tin. And we can repair all of those now. Yeah. So by injecting product therapy into a knee joint, for example, we can reconstitute the cartilage. And so we take people with bone on bone. Wow. And we can, we can thicken that Cartlidge enough that it takes the pain away and on x-ray we'll see an increase in the lower back, you know, like a lot of us, me included, I've got like four different set of basically go on by nonbinary, very close to being bone on bone.

Speaker 4: (42:17)
Okay. So I'll come at this from two angles. Number one, where you've got a bulging disc, the surgeons have told us, and we've known this since the 1950s, is that the ligaments on the posterior aspect of the vertebra or the vertebrae, you mind those posterial ligaments, the inter spinus and supraspinous ligament, usually a weak and stretched. And so one of the vertebra has moved forward slightly and it's put pressure on the disc and pushed it out, all that space in between the, when a disc protrudes, the chances are that it might impinge on one of the major nerves coming out of your back and going either down your bottom or to your internal organs. So what we do there is we prolotherapy the ligaments on the backbone that we'll tighten those up and it'll pull that vertebra back into its correct alignment, thereby taking pressure off the bulging disc.

Speaker 4: (43:31)
Wow. Then we have two ways that we can treat that bulging disc. We can either inject those zone down the spine in the muscles, running down the spine as close to the disc, as we did go and inject ozone, it only takes a few minutes. It's 98% effective for joints for bulging disc 98% effective. That's where you expect to win with bulging discs every time it's insane. And sometimes we can go in through the quarter, which is a little opening at the base of the sacrum. And it allows us to go into the spinal cord. I know this sounds risky, but actually it's a very safe procedure and we can inject those own into the quarter Aquinas. Which thing goes, the ozone travels up the spine to about thoracic that are bred number 10.

Speaker 3: (44:35)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (44:36)
Mmm. Which means it travels all the way up the lumbar spine and into the first few discs of the thoracic spine is where the ribs start and 98% effective for reducing bulging discs. So we prevent a lot of surgeries.

Speaker 3: (44:55)
This is what I mean, this is what,

Speaker 4: (44:58)
Mmm.

Speaker 3: (44:59)
Surprises me that, you know, this isn't more known and it isn't out there. And I did know of this 20, like I said, 20, 30 years ago, but this was an option and I've never seen it come back or, you know, proliferate and then people know about prolotherapy and certainly not Prolozone this is good. This is definitely going to help people avoid having to have surgery. And, and, and you'd think this would be well, let's try this first. It would be a great approach. Why isn't this right throughout everywhere? Why, why isn't every doctor offering this or is it a very specialized difficult thing?

Speaker 4: (45:36)
You know, I can only relate to it in terms of my own personal history. You know, I went and trained in Oregon and I learned things that are not taught here in New Zealand. One of them was the other one product therapy and actually put product therapy in its basic form was actually taught to me by a osteopathic surgeon. I'm just trying to think of his name now. I'll dr. Wilson. I think it was, he was a Harley street physician. He was doing it back in the day. And so we learned some of that often in, there was a famous New Zealand doctor called dr. Only who went and did product therapy and he was doing it in Mexico. So a lot of Americans would go down to Mexico. A lot of Gridiron athletes would get prolotherapy injections. So I heard about him and it turns out he was in New Zealand. Then when I came back 14 years ago to New Zealand, I trained with dr. Ken or

Speaker 4: (46:45)
Which he dr. Ken or at that time was I think, 92 years old, gosh, and still practicing and Remuera. Wow. And and I still liaise with Fraser Berlin, who was his nephew and doctor, or he was sort of a phrase, a Burling was dr. All's sort of protege if you will. And so he treats a phrase that treats a lot of people that have, and I always get this name wrong, but yeah. Disease, which is a, I think I've pronounced that. Right. It's an odd one. So sometimes I mispronounce it. Anyway that's a generalized disease where ligaments just sort of dissolve. So it's a serious condition. There's about eight or 900 people in New Zealand. Well, he's treating all of them with prolotherapy and it's the best thing they've ever had. So he's another doctor, great work there with prolotherapy. He uses stronger prolotherapy agents than I do.

Speaker 4: (47:55)
He uses if the NOLA mean and Tetra or sulfate, I believe which is a stronger tightening agent, but you know, we're natural paths. We like to stay with the more natural methods I have used other substances like fish oils, sodium moral weights. You can use those in eyes, blood, you can use vitamin B 12, you can do strong ozone and do the prolotherapy with strong ozone. That's what they call pro Prolozone. But I use dextrose, I use dextrose and I treat the ligaments and then we inject those own around them. And we usually put ozone into the, into the joint. Wow, this is this is incredible. And I think you probably going to be inundated with people wanting to come and see you because it got to be I didn't have a life outside of, and so, you know, I had to train other people.

Speaker 4: (48:57)
Yeah. I could have time to smell the roses or, and buy things. Exactly. Cause yeah, I mean, you're obviously very, very passionate about helping people and getting the most out of your time. And I mean like just, just you giving up your Sunday morning and spending an hour with me yesterday too on the phone, just so's what sort of a person I had dedicated you are to, to this. And I think that that's just absolutely fantastic. And to have someone with this sort of knowledge and background, a very different approach to what we're perhaps used to seeing here is exciting for me because I can see this is great changes happening. And Amer I think is going to be the, the association for integrative medicine, I think is going to be a fantastic thing. I'm, I'm trying to I want him to become a member.

Speaker 4: (49:53)
I think it's a, that's the things that are coming down the line now. Pretty exciting aren't they? Oh, they are. And what's happening is doctors and therapists sort of the lines of demarcation are breaking down. Yes. Because it becomes more, not about the doctor. Well, the practitioner it's really about the patient and what are we going to do to help the patient. Yep. And that's because we're all coming from that angle. Yep. We just always looking to, with people of conscience and we're doing the best work we can to recover the health of our population. We use all methods that we think can work and ozone and prolotherapy have enough scientific research behind them. We, we, we can explain in detail exactly why they do work. Yep. And this is, this is just brilliant. And so critics of which, you know, usually I just people that don't know, they just don't know about it.

Speaker 4: (50:54)
We've been, we've had critics. Mmm. Yeah. We've had mid safe and ministry of health. Everyone's investigated us. And yeah, we provided them with dr. Work, you know, we've provided the scientific literature. Yup. That proves what we're doing is safe, efficient, effective. And and this isn't like, this is really become a family is critical and many of them become active supporters. So we can turn a critic into an active supporter just through education. Gosh, that would be great because I do, I do find in the, you know, the, the straight laced allopathic medicine is still so blinkered. Certainly in my experience and I can say this cause I'm a non-licensed nonmedical professional. It has been very, very frustrating in my own, you know, with my own family's health with my mom's journey, for example. And, and I, and this is one of the reasons why I do the show because I want to create change in movement. And it's not all about pharma pharmacology. It's not all about just surgery. Those are great. And let's look at those, but let's look at the other sides of the coin in trying to connect fantastic people and share this education worth the public. I mean, last week I had Dr. Tim Ewer.

Speaker 4: (52:23)
I know he's fantastic. And he was on the show last week. And again, he too has had, you know, I know issues okay. The, the, the approaches that he takes, I mean, there's a reason why there's such a mess of waiting lists. And so many people wanting to see people like you because it's not being offered. Unfortunately, you know, dr. Terms down, down South, you're way up North, it's hard for a lot of people. If this was this sort of thing was available. And every time we'd have a lot less people, we would, and we'd save our country, billions in healthcare costs, but really you'd have a happier population being able to work to their full potential rather than have their abilities curtailed because of pain. Really. you asked me why aren't more doctors doing it. I think what's happened is ligaments and tendons have really just basically, I'm going to use the word overlooked.

Speaker 4: (53:24)
I think doctors are really just overlooked. They'll treat organs and muscles and such but ligaments, well, what, what are you going to do for ligaments? Well, we don't, you can't do anything for ligaments. So we won't put too much attention there cause we can't do anything for it. Yup. Yup. Well, the gap that is the gap in the system where we've come in with product therapy, that's our specialty. We treat ligaments, but all chronic injuries are ligament based. And so our typical patient has been to acupuncturist, osteopath, chiropractor, orthopedic surgeon, GP, soft tissue therapists, CMA, if they've done everything. And when we start to hear that history, it confirms for us, this is great. It's telling us it's a ligament problem. Or yep. Then when we investigate, by the way, all those therapies are very helpful. But if they don't resolve the issue, we know it's a ligament problem.

Speaker 4: (54:26)
So then we do our injections and the pain goes away. People recover the function of their alum and they ask, how come I never heard about this before? How come no one's ever told me about this? And I said, but we have told you about it. And now we've treated you, what's the issue. You know, people find things when they look for them, but this is, I just wish it was, you know, and this is why the show's important. And this will have a small portion of people that were here at, and hopefully the people that go come to you will also share their experiences, but it's a very slow process to get it out to the, the 98% of other people who are unfortunately unaware of it. I mean, yeah, deep into all of this sort of stuff. Zealand, we only have what, two degrees of separation here.

Speaker 4: (55:18)
So the work that I'm doing, I know is sprayed right throughout New Zealand, because lots and lots and lots of people have now heard about it. So I've been doing it for 14 years here. And so within New Zealand, most people that have these types of problems, my, my past patients usually we'll tell them to come and they have at least have a look at this therapy. And so I think we have New Zealand pretty well covered. Yeah. This show maybe more people might even think about prolotherapy is that yes, it's needles. Yes. It's injections, but you know what? It only takes a minute or two. But when I start working on a joint within a minute or three, I'm usually completely finished with that area. Fantastic. And then they've got lifelong strength back and it's, you know, $300. Yeah. As opposed to a surgery or continual care that costs over years, many thousands of dollars and especially avoidance surgeries, which can be very expensive.

Speaker 4: (56:31)
We prevent a lot of knee replacements. We get people that have had knee replacements or joint replacements where it hasn't worked perfectly. They're still in pain. So, you know, you hear, you do hear a lot of horror stories, but I also hear a lot of people that have had joint replacement that they're very happy with. So I'm not sort of a critical of it, but if you've had a joint replacement, you're still in pain consider product therapy because he taught me. And so the doctor can, or that we can do product therapy around a joint replacement and it still works very, very well surprisingly, but it does.

Speaker 3: (57:12)
Yep. Fantastic. I mean, I, it makes sense to me. You know, so I think, you know, dr. Wayne we've covered quite a lot of territory today. We we've done, I was on therapy, a little bit of the background, what it's doing now, how it works, we've gone into prolotherapy and even into Prolozone therapy.

Speaker 4: (57:32)
Yeah. Prolozone is doing prolotherapy, but just using strong ozone irritating and you just inject the gas. Cause I was owns always a guest. We inject strong ozone into the ligament using the product therapy, needling technique. Mmm. Because just the needle itself going in and out through the ligament creates the ligament, the bikings use fish phones and they would just prolotherapy a ligament with fishbone. Oh, sounds terrific. Shot. And it would create new ligament by us doing a little injection at the end of it. We of course maximize the effect. Mmm.

Speaker 3: (58:13)
Well, if you think about it, anything that causes a rotation, the body seems more stuff there to fix it.

Speaker 4: (58:19)
Mmm. You know,

Speaker 3: (58:21)
So dr. Wayne, I want to say thank you very, very much for your time today. I really appreciate it on a Sunday morning. We can people find you and we're, you know, where's the best place to connect with you and come and see you.

Speaker 4: (58:34)
You can look up waipu natural health, waipu natural health. So we're in Northland or they can look up dr. Ozone doc, T O R O Z one, So doctorozone1@gmail.com contact the Northland environmental health center in camo. And we do all these therapies there.

Speaker 3: (59:05)
Fantastic. And I would love an introduction to dr. Damien Wojciech at some stage. That would be really fantastic.

Speaker 4: (59:13)
I'll share with them that while I did this podcast. Yeah. And I can put you in touch with them.

Speaker 3: (59:18)
Sounds brilliant. Dr. Wayne, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate the work, the passion, the education that you've invested in all of this and bringing this to New Zealand that's really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for the opportunity of sharing it with our people. Oh, it's fantastic.

Speaker 1: (59:36)
That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Doctors Robert Rowen is a world renown Ozone and oxidative medicine clinician who creates personalized treatment plans that strive to address both the symptoms and the underlying causes of disease.
The most common being energy-blocking "interference fields", toxins in the body, a compromised metabolism, stress, unbalanced emotions, and poor nutrition. Removing these hindrances often helps your body to heal.
Dr Rowen uses a myriad of therapies including Ozone therapy which we do a deep dive into in this interview. Ozone and the other forms of oxidative medicine he uses helps people recover from chronic pain, chronic fatigue, arthritis, Lyme Disease, autoimmune disorders, chronic infections, immune/allergy issues, and cardiac/circulatory system conditions. The Clinic also provides supportive therapies for patients challenged with cancer. The Need for an Innovative Approach Western medicine has made great strides in emergency medicine and surgical techniques. Despite this progress, some ailments stubbornly resist conventional treatment. There is also increasing evidence that some pharmacological treatments do more harm than good. For patients with difficult medical conditions, "incurable" diseases, and for those who seek to restore their health, standard medical practices are usually not the answer. About Dr Rowen Doctor Robert Rowen has been practicing medicine for more than three decades. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Johns Hopkins University before attending medical school at the University of California, San Francisco. Following medical school and residency, he attained Board certification in two fields: Family Practice and Emergency Medicine. Finding that pharmacological medicine could do more harm than good, Doctor Rowen made the leap to integrative medicine in the 1980's. He practiced in Alaska from 1979 to 2001 before joining Dr. Su in Santa Rosa in 2001.

Dr. Rowen has developed an international reputation for pioneering work in oxidation and other innovative medical treatments. He spearheaded Alaska's first initiative to provide statutory protection for integrative medical treatments and was appointed to the Alaska State Medical Board. He is a frequent lecturer on oxidation, food and nutrition, the limitations of conventional Western medicine and other topics. Dr. Rowen uses YouTube and Facebook to provide public insight into his approach, often accompanied by commentary from his patients.

Dr. Rowen has received awards from the American College for Advancement of Medicine (ACAM), International Oxidation Medicine Association (IOMA), Society for Oxidative and Photonic Medicine (SOPMed), American Academy of Ozonotherapy (AAO), and other organizations for his work in oxidation medicine and advocacy for medical freedom. Dr. Rowen was awarded the Cancer Control Society's Humanitarian Award in 2013. https://drrowendrsu.com/ Link to the video on how to use ozone therapy by Dr Rowen and Dr Su. https://drrowendrsu.com/our-blog/ozone-without-borders-home-ozone-demonstration/ If you are wanting to purchase an at home ozone therapy kit please contact Kim Saxton who was on this podcast in episode 151. Kim owns www.naturalozone.co.nz and can help get you set up for using ozone for a myriad of uses at home. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

We are happy to announce that Pushing The Limits rated as one of the top 200 podcast shows globally for Health and fitness.

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In this interview Lisa talks to Dr Tim Ewer an integrated medical practitioner about his approach to medicine some of the complementary therapies he uses besides conventional allopathic medicine and what exciting research is happening around the world - they get into everything from laser therapy to light therapy to hyperbaric oxygen therapy and beyond.

Dr Tim concentrates on individual and personalised patient care and combines the best of current western medical practices with evidence-based traditional and complementary medicines and practices.

Integrative medicine takes into account the physical, psychological, social and spiritual wellbeing of the person with the aim of using the most appropriate and safe evidence-based treatments. Lisa sees this integrated approach and open minded attitude that is constantly looking at the latest research and technologies and that focuses on the root causes and on optimal health rather than disease as being the way of the future.
Dr Tim's Bio in brief Dr Tim Ewer (MB ChB, MMedSc, MRCP, FRACP, FRNZCGP, DCH, DRCOG, Dip Occ Med, FACNEM) is vocationally qualified as a physician and general practitioner. Tim has been working as a specialist in integrative medicine for the last 30 years, before which he was a hospital physician for 10 years after gaining his medical degree and specialist qualifications in the UK. Dr Tim's website https://teora.co.nz/ We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/running/

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetu-mindset-university/

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Well, hi everyone. And welcome back to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you this week. I have dr. Tim Ewer, who has an integrated medical practitioner and physician who is based on the beautiful region of in the South Island of New Zealand. And Dr. Tim came to my attention because he has a really an amazing hyperbaric facility in this area. He used to work at the Christchurch hospitals and he's a hyperbaric trying to doctor he's also does a lot of complimentary and integrated medical approaches. So looking at everything from Eastern medicine through to, you know, acupuncture through to laser therapy. And in this conversation today, we have a good real in depth. Talk about where, you know, things are going some of the greatest and latest research and technologies that are coming on stream and some of the exciting developments and his approach to healing people and helping people.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
I just like to remind you, before I hand over to Dr. Tim my book relentless is now available in stores right throughout New Zealand. It's also available worldwide on Amazon, on audio books. It's in my website at lisatamati.com. I'd love you to go and check that out. And the book is titled relentless. And as the story of bringing my mum back after a mess of aneurysm and being told that she would never do anything again, and this was our journey back, it's a really insightful book that looks at the mindset of overcoming massive challenges. And I really love you to go and read that and to share that with your networks as well. Lastly, before I go, I'd like you to also follow me on Instagram. I'm quite active on Instagram and on my YouTube channel as well. Have over 600 videos on the YouTube channel and including a whole lot of my documentaries that I made from my beaches around the world. If you want to have a look at the YouTube channel that's just it just search for Lisa Tamati on YouTube, and that will come up and on Instagram, it's @lisatamati right now over to Dr. Tim Ewer and of the mapper health center in mapper.

Speaker 2: (02:23)
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show this week, I have a special guest, dr. Tim Ewer, Dr. Tim is sitting down and mapper and the views of DePaul sort of Nelson area. How you doing dr. Tim

Speaker 3: (02:36)
Very well. Thank you strangely a rainy day to day, but that's probably the rest of New Zealand a bit rainy. And normally it's always sunny here.

Speaker 2: (02:46)
Very sunny place. I was just saying I used to live down there for a few months when I was picking apples back in my young years, and it was hard work, but I'm very a beautiful area to live in. So yeah, you live in a piece of paradise doctor you are as an integrated medical professional and has a hyperbaric clinic down down that way. I don't want it to get dr. tim To talk to, I don't know if we have a doctor, Tim doctor, you are, what would you prefer? I've got to go back to share a little bit about the work that you do and talk about traumatic brain injury in particular as an area that is obviously my interest with my mum's story. So can you give us a little bit of background, your background and how you got into doing what you're doing and the integrative and hyperbaric side of things?

Speaker 3: (03:41)
Sure. I guess my story from that point of view, start it off. I'm originally from England. So I trained in England at one of the English universities. And even when I finished my training and I'd come out with distinctions and all of those sorts of things I thought there must be more to what medicine's about or what health is about. Let's say than what I have been told. And ever since then, I've been looking to find other ways to, to improve people's wellbeing. So I continued on with my specialist training became what's called a specialist physician. But at the same time, I would sneak off at weekends and go to the London college of acupuncture and learned acupuncture. And I learned medical hypnosis, and I ended up studying nutrition and some homeopathy and a variety of different things, including bioenergetic medicines over the years, of course I spent a bit of time working in hospital as a specialist.

Speaker 3: (04:45)
And that's actually where I came across hyperbaric medicine. That was in Christchurch where they had a big hospital. I was working in the hospital as a specialist and they had a big hyperbaric chamber there. So I spent seven years helping to run that we did it free and we spent our weekends or nighttime sometimes helping people with the Benz and carbon monoxide poisoning and all sorts of things like that. And at that point, I had a little bit of an existential crisis and decided that I wanted to leave the hospital side and develop my own integrative clinic, which I did. So we're going back 20 or more years now. Wow. And I moved up to this beautiful area and now in, and found a little place to work from and thought, well, if everything goes well, people will eventually just come to me and find me.

Speaker 3: (05:35)
And that's really what's happened. I started off way back then with just myself and a wonderful Mary receptionist. And now we have 23 staff and that part of the clinic so much so that I've now moved across the road to have a separate integrative clinic so that I can continue to just doing what I like to do with a couple of nurses and myself and two other integrative doctors and an integrative psychologist and these sort of people. So it was a matter of pulling things together over time to, to have a variety of options for people, a variety of it in a way of languages, how to understand disease and wellness. And what I've found over all of those years is that there isn't necessarily, as, as the great sages have often said, there's many paths to the top of the mountain. So it's a matter of finding the right one for each person versus a lot of Western medicine, which is very much scripted in terms of you have this diagnosis, you have this treatment versus you are this person with this variety of different things going on in your life.

Speaker 3: (06:54)
How can we find ways of getting either balance or detoxed or whatever needs to happen in that process to get it back towards house.

Speaker 2: (07:06)
So it's sort of looking more towards the root causes and, and as opposed to dealing just with symptoms and looking a little bit outside the box, did you, did you cop a lot of flack for that in the early days with, you know, coming from their sort of allopathic, conventional medicine world and, and looking then at things like acupuncture and you know, things that are outside of the, the standard box, if you like, has it been a difficult road or a in, have you seen that change over the last few years?

Speaker 3: (07:42)
It's a good question. I think originally I had to do it secretly and it wasn't approved and it was separate too. And I had to, I had to have two different lives as sort of Jekyll and Hyde components going on and you can decide, which is which out of mainstream or holistic. And so that was kind of difficult. But over the years what I found is if I started applying some of these techniques and people simply started getting better my colleagues would say, well, what are you doing? You know, what's, what's happening to those people that don't normally get better and now they're getting better. So that started me, gave me the opportunity to start talking about some of the things I did, but to be honest, while working in the hospital environment, it was quite difficult. So it wasn't until I moved up and started my own separate clinic that it gave me much more space, if you like to practice other things. However, I will say that the conservative elements of the mainstream still quite antagonistic to some of the things that we like to do in integrative medicine. And so there is that sense of walking along the brief tight wire, some of the times and having to basically practice really good medicine in a mainstream way, plus all the other things of both sides.

Speaker 2: (09:17)
Yeah. Being brilliant in both sides of that. So yeah, I, I mean, I th I see as a, someone who's come, not from a medical background but had a few issues along the way, shall we say, and going, okay, this isn't working, I'm going to look outside the box for myself. And having, you know, a couple of, with my mum, with myself with my brothers some very great success in, in looking outside the box. And I see a a massive movement of, of change and change in mentality now because we have access via the internet and the, and the stuff that we have available by a pub med and all those sort of great places where you can go and do your own research, that it's no longer completely controllable what what we do. And we can take ownership more, and we have the ability to take more ownership that we didn't have when we didn't have the internet and the ability to access great minds and great people and great research and the information that's coming out, you know, on a daily basis.

Speaker 2: (10:25)
I mean, no person on earth can stay up with it all. It's just so much. So if you wanting to do your own deep dive into a certain area, you can certainly find yourself down some very deep rabbit holes and becoming quite expert in a, in a, in a narrow field that you're trying to research. And do you see that in the people that are coming to you, that there is a shift in the people that are starting to come to you and say, Hey, I've seen this, I've heard about this, I've read about this as this something that's gonna help me. And people taking more ownership in that, in the, in the clientele that you sort of have,

Speaker 3: (10:59)
I think you're right. I mean, we're part of a informational revolution that's going on at the moment. I did say it's escalating all the time and it's growing and growing, which is a wonderful thing. Most of the time, it's the song, which is either contused or fake news, as they say. And I think being well-informed as the main thing, a lot of this, it is about helping a person become informed about what's going on. And so they can then take more control over themselves because they understand what it's about. And so that's the journey in a sense, it's helping to understand the person to some extent, walking in their shoes a wee bit to see, okay, what's going on? How can I put this together and express it back in a way where that person can make the right changes to bring about what they need to do?

Speaker 3: (11:51)
That's an edge, a very general of looking at it. Sometimes I had a great example this week of a person who came in a woman who was in her forties. She was well educated, but she had a whole selection of what, in Western medicine, we might consider the bizarre symptoms from neurological ones to skin, to all sorts of things. And she'd seen urologists and various people, and they'd all been scratching their heads about what's going on. She's obviously not, well, we can't put it together. But I said, look, why don't we, why don't we try a different language for this? And I then talked about the whole concept of low kidney energy and how it related to her tinnitus to her lack of mental agility to all sorts of components. And it's not to say it was just a way of bringing a whole raft of things together in a way that had a sense to it, rather than a sort of chaos, that, that chaos can be very unsettling and you don't know how to make sense. And particularly the experts can't make sense of it. Then you're kind of stuck with what the heck's going on. I might just going mad and, and she wasn't, she was just having a whole series of different things, which we could start bringing together under an umbrella of understanding. And even though we didn't have to use TCM as part of the treatment necessarily it gave it, she felt so much more at ease by the end of that, with an explanation that seemed to bring things together.

Speaker 2: (13:36)
Yeah. And it enabled her to maybe take a new approach to the way, say if you're getting disparate sort of information. Cause it was really hard when you're looking at sometimes your, your symptoms and then trying to go, well, where is this coming from? And what is it, you know? And it could be a myriad of things and trying to piece it together. You must have an incredible brain to be able to hold all of these, facets it without any sort of contradicting you know, dogmas even with an, in the knowledge that you have. Do you find that a bit of a juggling act at times,

Speaker 3: (14:14)
Strangely enough, not much. There are various possibilities for that. One is if you're into astrology, I'm a Gemini. I'm not a great, astrologist mind you, but there's two of me. And so we can talk to each other. I was brought up in a way where I, interestingly I don't want to get into my personal background particularly, but at one point I was went to a very expensive English school, but I actually stayed with my mother in a council house in a really poor area. So I went from one group of, in the morning to another one in the evening. Wow. And you had to talk the language of both. Yeah, yeah. To work it through. And I think that a sense of dance of life is good because it makes one, I'm able to cope with lots of different things at the same time, try and bring them together

Speaker 2: (15:15)
And being able to relate to people. It was, it wouldn't be a brilliant training and being able to be on every level and, and talk to people and communicate and, you know having this wealth of knowledge from all of these different disciplines and science areas, it must be very, you know, like to have that broad spectrum integrated approach. I think, you know, I wish there were more doctors available in New Zealand. There was, you know, we were starting to see more functional and integrated practitioners coming out and then you've got, you know, your, your whole health coach coaching in different areas. But it's a, it's a, certainly a changing world. And I'm hoping that there was going to be some change hopefully in the mainstream.

Speaker 3: (16:02)
Yeah. I mean, I've put up a little plugin and I may about those an organization called Amer the Australasian integrative medicine association, which is a mix of both doctors who do integrative medicine and also other health practitioners. And so on their websites, you can often get information about integrated doctors around New Zealand and Australia.

Speaker 2: (16:25)
Fabulous. That's a really good tip. I'll put that in the, in the show,

Speaker 3: (16:30)
Dub, dub, dub, amer.net.edu, but New Zealand.

Speaker 2: (16:35)
Okay. Well, we'll check that out. Cause you're getting in all sorts of lists of people. Now let's go a little bit into hyperbaric and I wanted to sort of touch on today. Some of the possible treatments for brain injury whether that's, you know, from stroke or traumatic brain injury or you know, concussions or aneurysms, in my case with mum your, your experience with hyperbaric in the, the medical grave facilities, I've had a mild hyperbaric chamber. My mum who might listen, sort of know my story with my mum. Four years ago, we had this disaster after three months in hospital, we've told, you know, put her in a, in a hospital level care facility and she'll never do anything again, she's major brain damage. I found hyperbaric on the internet and I managed to get a a commercial dive company that let me have access for a while.

Speaker 2: (17:38)
And then I had such success there that I ended up buying a mild hyperbaric chamber and installing it and out in their home and put her through she's had over 250 sessions now at 1.5 atmospheres that combined, and that, wasn't the only thing I did. And it ended up being an eight hour protocol every day that I sort of put together from pieces from functional neurology and nootropics and epigenetics and functional genomics and really diving deep for the last four years into the science and doing what I could, you know, it was either do everything I can or lose my mom. Those were the two options. So I was desperate to get her back. And on that journey, I've, I've hyperbaric is so powerful. His has so many things that it can be really good for. What, what are your experiences where that and the work that you did in the hospital and what it's actually recognized for versus what it overseas, perhaps as being used for two different things, aren't they, what's your take on that

Speaker 3: (18:51)
Sort of conventional set of indications for using hyperbaric? We still hospitals use we only have two hospital hyperbarics in New Zealand and one in Christchurch and one in Devonport which is really the Navy one rusty open hospital used us. Other than that, they're all private ones. So the hospital ones really is the history they came from. They came from a Navy based history for treating the bins really, or in the ancient days, you go back a hundred years, a case, some workers, which of the people that put in pylons for building bridges on the go of the water, they had to put the pylons in and they would get the bins and the bins. It was because when they came up, they were in pain and they were bent over because they were having gobbles coming out into their spine and their muscles.

Speaker 3: (19:49)
So yeah, the hospital based ones are really a very strict set of criteria. Like as I said, the bins various forms of severe infection, gangrene infections a few other conditions like carbon monoxide poisoning, possibly cyanide poisoning. But there limited number of conditions. It doesn't include brain injury. It doesn't include strokes. It doesn't include neurodegenerative diseases. It doesn't, Incruse clued fibromyalgia, a whole raft of things where we now realize there's reasonable evidence that it has some impact. One of the troubles with medicine is you'll know, is that it relies on this gold standard thing called a randomized controlled trial, where you have to do a very difficult process of having a placebo group and a treatment group. And for doing that, the hyperbaric is a nightmare because to try and have a treatment that isn't a treatment that looks like a treatment is quite hard.

Speaker 3: (20:59)
A lot of the work that's been done is kind of on the edge of how good it is. So most of the research we tend to see about is where we've used it lots of times and have said, ah, this seems to be working it's anecdotal it's case series. And there are some great researchers used, you'll know, like poor hearts in the States and so on. And to give some credit, the Russians have been doing it for much longer, but a lot of this stuff is unpublished. So there's a huge amount of volume of work going on around the world. And now one of the best units is in Israel. They've got some great work going on there. So, but these are the kind of these are the people going outside, the normal bubble of what's accepted as, okay. And yet they're getting good results as far as we can tell until you get that ask TT of gold standard, the conventional systems unlikely to change, that's the problem.

Speaker 2: (22:02)
And the, the having, you know, the randomized control trials is just not going to happen. And something like hyperbaric that hasn't got a patentable drug, realistically, the costs are too high aren't, they,

Speaker 3: (22:14)
It is high and there have been some trials, but they nearly always stop at 20 treatments. That that's the number that they stop at. Yeah. That's, it's kinda like I'm saying you've been on a drug per month and let's see how it's worked is it's kind of that way of thinking

Speaker 2: (22:35)
The genetic shifts happening, right.

Speaker 3: (22:37)
200 hours of training as a whole lot of things that aren't going to happen in that time period, or they are, it's going to be fairly mild, not, not as far as you could. And as you know, one of things with the poor hearts researchers, he kept doing spec scans and checking up on patients and he found that they were still improving at 80 treatments, still improving. I mean, Hey, so we stop at 20 with our RCTs. It's not a great place to design. Is this working or not?

Speaker 2: (23:08)
And, and, you know, I mean, I know with, with mom I've yeah. Like I said, put her through 250, you know and I still continue to see improvements and I do it in blocks now, and then I give her a break from it. And it's in those breaks when you often get the next level of, of improvement.

Speaker 3: (23:27)
I think that is the epigenetic effect probably saying,

Speaker 2: (23:32)
Yeah. You know, to fix apparently 8,000 genes that can be influenced by these epigenetic shifts. And it's, it's, it's I like going to the gym, you know, I'm not going to go to the gym and then three weeks time out looking like taught. So they got, or, you know, it doesn't happen that quickly, but the NGO Genesis the inflammation, the STEM cell production, certainly at the higher or lower pressures they happen over time. Do you see also a benefit and stacking it for the ones who have a better word with other protocols? So, so other things like ozone therapy, for example, or P myth therapy or anything else that you find beneficial combining?

Speaker 3: (24:23)
I think, I mean, I would say yes in a, in a clinical sense of experience, but I couldn't say that there are trials with trials to say, like to have only one or two variables. They don't want to throw a whole lot in at once. You agreed, I would start probably with nutrition and there are a number of nutrients, which you know about that you can throw into the equation. I think as auxiliary treatments my particular interest at the moment is photobiomodulation, it's using laser treatment.

Speaker 2: (24:56)
Oh, I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about photos.

Speaker 3: (25:01)
So I think this to me is an up and coming thing. I've spent the last two or three summers going to a conference in Germany, a laser conference where some of the, the experts get together from around the world. And they talk about these things. I've also been to one in Australia last October. What, what we're now what we've known about. Okay. Let me tell the curve.

Speaker 4: (25:28)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (25:30)
Phases. We're not talking about cutting lasers, which are where you focus the beam to a point. So drill holes and things like James Bond. You know, that's not one of those, okay. We're talking about parallel, light photons. That is they're going side by side. So they're not drilling holes in you. And what happens with that? And there's a lot of great research, and this is where there's far more research out there than most people know about, because unless you're interested in this field, you don't go looking for it. I've got quite a big database now looking at all this stuff. And what we w one of the things that, that does, it does a whole rock to things a bit like hyperbaric. But it particularly affects the mitochondria because your mitochondria are the little components in every cell of your body, pretty well, that produces energy in terms of ATP and NADH as well.

Speaker 3: (26:27)
And those mitochondria, well, if we go back a little bit in time, those mitochondria, I actually what's called proteobacteria in the ancient of days, they were bacteria that had been incorporated into you carry out excels and also the cells, because they needed a bigger energy source. These provided the energy. So we became part of the place, if you see what I mean. So the interesting thing about mitochondria in their rules are what we call chromophores, which are proteins that react to light because that's how the bacteria actually got their energy originally, like plants. They were converting sunlight into energy. Okay. So how about how mitochondria respond to light at different frequencies? So different frequencies do dislike your different chemical reactions in the mitochondria. What so that's one little pack to hold onto it. And when that happens, a number of things happen.

Speaker 3: (27:31)
One, you get obviously the ability to produce a whole lot of repair mechanisms get stimulated energy mechanisms get stimulated. You turn off excessive inflammation, a whole lot of things you want to happen happen by getting your mitochondria to work properly. And in fact, one of the concerns that even about getting older and aging is that our mitochondria are not functioning properly, or we have less salt. It is the basis of aging really isn't it? Mitochondrial dysfunction, certainly one of the big, big keys. So different frequencies will do different stimulate different components. So we now know with lasers, we use different colored blazers to get different effects. However, the big problem is that if you try and print, since you use blue or yellow, the penetration is very small. So, but as you go towards red, you get more and more penetration.

Speaker 3: (28:30)
And what most of us now use is infrared. Infrared is the most penetrating of all colors. And what you can now do is, is get lasers that will penetrate right through bone, even through the skull, into the brain very effectively. I can give you a story if you want a story. It depends on what, what got me really interested in this area was another bit of serendipity where a number of years ago a patient in Oakland well, it's man in Oakland phoned me. I said, look, my wife has got this terrible thoracic vertebrae, vertebral abscess. So several vertebrae and unless she has continuous antibiotics she gets very unwell and in a lot of pain. And so she'd been on antibiotics for 18 months and every time she stopped it, it flared up badly to the point that they said, look, the only next thing we can do is do an operation where they go in through the past the lungs, through the anterior approach, which is to scoop out the dead material and pass and try and rebuild the spine, which is a dangerous operation horrific.

Speaker 3: (29:53)
And so the husband who was not an entrepreneur, he had did some research. He's a very bright guy and he came across hyperbaric oxygen. And so he found me because I, at the time was the only person with a high pressure, private hospitals refuse to do anything. That's fine. When in doubt we started treatment and we were part way through the treatment. And he came in to me and he said, Hey, Hey Tim, what do you know about lasers? And I said, well, not a lot, really. And it's developed, have you seen these papers? How power lasers at certain frequencies will kill bacteria, including staphylococcus, which she had. Wow. I thought, wow, that's interesting. And I read up on some papers and I then researched more and I came back to him a day or so later and say, Hey, look, you're right. This looks quite promising.

Speaker 3: (30:50)
He then said to me, okay, look, you find me the right laser. And I'll get it here in three days from anywhere in the world. I thought, wow, that's a good, I haven't been asked to do that before. So I found this one in the States, which was 25,000 U S wow. He had it there in three days. Boom. Wow. And we just started treating with both. And the long and the short is after two sets for treatments, she has been able to stop all her antibiotics and has stayed role for the last 18 months, two years while having any problem, it's amazing basically, and the MRIs improved and everything's, you know, there's new bone growth and so forth. So it just gave me that insight of, wow, there's so much information out there. Why didn't I know about it. So I got to know about it.

Speaker 3: (31:42)
I've been to these conferences. So now I'm starting to use a similar laser to the one he got just by the way, anyone who wants to get one, I found that his was actually made in China and I got it for a third, the price, what was it called? Because I'd love to have a look into that myself. Yeah. So it's a, it's a nice, it's a classical advisor. So you don't want to play there ladies as have class one to four and four is the most powerful, so you've got to be married. Yeah. So you've just got to be careful. Don't China in people's eyes and things like that. But anyway, so I've been using this for a number of different situations and there's some great research, randomized control trials of various things. One of them, which I found quite amazing is using it to depression, where they showed that if you did the left frontal area that in a randomized controlled trial, they improved similar to drug treatment. So there we go.

Speaker 2: (32:46)
Is that something looking at the vitamin D pathways or something like that? Or is it,

Speaker 3: (32:53)
I don't think so. No. I think it's a separate effect on we know from, in terms of depression also that often it's, so their frontal area on a QEG that's the main area, or if you do a functional MRI. And so it's just that, that was the area of this one to work on, to improve its functioning. So the thing with the laser is it's simply trying to restore a normal cell function as best it can.

Speaker 2: (33:18)
Is that laser available? Like, can you as a nonmedical professional get one of these, I mean, this gentlemen

Speaker 3: (33:27)
Far Mark Palmer exciting because a lot of this work's been done with the sort of laser that I would have the cost for, but then I'm realizing that low level laser treatment, L L T low level laser treatment, which is class three, but even on art seems to work. And what, when I say that, believe it or not is that this is something that's in the usually 50 to 500 milliwatt versus I'm using 15 Watts or 15,000 milli Watts. So what we initially thought is Hey, how can that possibly get through the skin, the underlying tissue, the skull, and into the brain and that level of power. It just didn't make sense. And yet the trials showed that it does. And what we now realize is that the skull, when you look at it with very high powered electron microscopes sections actually has this lattice works of tubules going through it, which the light can probably pass through. Wow. Because otherwise it just didn't make sense that something could hit this solid bone and still get through when, if you did it on the, on something similar thickness without those channels, it wouldn't so that, but anyway, so low level lasers are looking very good at the moment and they're much cheaper and much easier to use different ones.

Speaker 2: (35:06)
Yeah. I've got I've I've got two from via light. The 16, yes. I've got the two ones that go up up the nostril at the nasal ones at the, what is it? The eight, eight 55 or something in him.

Speaker 3: (35:21)
That's the nanometers. So that's the actual wavelengths of which is infrared. But then they piggyback onto that they what they call modulator. So that I think the one I've got the neuro one as well, which is still the 40 Hertz one. I haven't got that one, but 10 Hertz one. Yeah. That's the one that goes across the skull. Is it doing that? It's the actual, so what, this gets much more kind of exciting in a way, from my point of view, if you get, if you're excited by tech technical things, is that they, the wavelength of the infrared, which is the 800 to 800 to a thousand nanometers, roughly yes. Infrared that wavelength is what is going through into, in this case, the brain what you can do is you can pulse that process and that then becomes a frequency that's received by the tissue.

Speaker 3: (36:24)
So to some extent, the wave length going in is doing one set of things. And then on top of that, you can what I call piggyback, but the correct name is modulating the, so that you get a frequency, which has different effects. Now I'll give you an example a year or two ago a patient who was a local barista fell off his mountain bike and did the usual over the handlebars, hit his head, got concussed and tried to go back to work, but he is it problem with it. He had a cognitive deficit where he couldn't tolerate much noise people or anything, as soon as there was a lot going on his brain sort of short circuited, he couldn't think. And as a barista, that didn't work, he couldn't interact with people. So he had to stop working and this went on for months and he wasn't recovering.

Speaker 3: (37:24)
So he came to steamy and I said, look, okay, we'll use the laser. And we did a few sessions without obviously much improvement at what we call a continuous rate where it's just the infrared process. But then I looked at some of the research and I thought, what I can do on my laser, I can actually put in any frequency I want, I can change it. It's a sort of fairly clever one. And I, so I put it at 10 Hertz frequency that session from then onwards, he just got better and better and better and went back to work and he knew it the next day. He'd said, look, I'm so much better just from that one session once we did the 10 Hertz. So what we're understanding now, there's a lot of research going on around the world here. The guy cut in the States called Michael Hamblin.

Speaker 3: (38:15)
Who's one of the sort of gurus of this, but also in Australia and in Tasmania, interesting enough, they're doing a whole load of research. Look at these frequencies, looking at what's bears, looking at what how much you need and what they're finding. It's a little bit like hyperbaric. When I started doing hyperbaric, we used very high pressure as well, partly because we're treating divers, but a lot of the therapy was based on two to 2.4 atmospheres treatment and everything, as you know, what, what requirement is actually, some of the lower pressures are better for certain situations restore brain function. And they're finding that with the lasers, you don't necessarily have to hammer it in hard with a very high level. It's more of about the subtleties of the right frequencies, the right dose, the right evidencing. So this is where a lot of work's going on. I don't think we've got all the answers by a long way, but I think it's a very exciting field risk, low risk, you know, very low risk. What we do know about, as you're saying these lays, this sort of laser is pretty well without risk providing you don't look at it. And with the sort of laser I've got that if you hold it in one place, it gets too hot. So there's a heat element. Whereas the low level that doesn't happen, they using led lights now instead of laser. So

Speaker 2: (39:43)
I saw one just yesterday when I was doing some research on tinnitus I've forgotten the name of it, Luma meat or something like that. Laser therapy that they're doing the doctor in Australia was doing it for the inner ear to regenerate the hears on the inner ear to help, you know, tonight as suburb sufferers and his disease suffers. And then we're getting lots of success with that. And I certainly, you know, when I heard about it and did some, some research on it for mum, I think it's been a part of her recovery as well. I only had internet-based the nasal ones and I had one at the 600, the 600 in him and the other one at the eight, eight 50. But I'd like to look into this more. It seems to be a lot going on around frequencies general, whether it's light frequencies or PEMF pulsed electromagnetic field. Do you know anything about the PE EMF at all?

Speaker 3: (40:42)
Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really exciting area. It's it's, to some extent it started off with someone called Royal rife in the, in the States. Do you know, do you know about him? He's a, he was a doctor back in the 1930s, forties, fifties. It was really quite a brilliant doctor, but actually ended up in a sad situation because, well, I'll come to that. So he started looking at how frequencies could be used in medicine. And what he found is that by using, he had a cathode Ray tube in those days to produce them. And he also developed at the time, the most powerful microscope light microscope that existed a very intricate complex microscope that allowed him to look at cells while they're alive. What's called dark microscopy, which was very new at the time.

Speaker 3: (41:43)
And what it could do is look at cells and then the mom with his catheter, gray different frequencies and see what happened to them. And what he found is that he retained some frequencies and see different things. So he kept saying, you know, if you're trying to kill this by this seems to be the right frequency or this cancer, this frequency seems to be the right frequency and did a of research over a years and started getting some really quite astounding success with these patients. And a number of his close friends started their colleagues. We started using similar instruments and again, started doing very well until the FDA got winded at all. And they came in and Congress skated every part of his equipment that he had, and he was left in ruins. But and yet there's a huge amount of information left behind about what he was doing. And so a lot of the ideas of different frequencies for different illnesses came from his early work.

Speaker 2: (42:49)
That's right. I do remember that story now. And there is a few of his machines that have been

Speaker 3: (42:54)
Absolutely. So there are some original ones possibly when they say original, it's really hard to know because we don't know really what the regional ones, cause there's some sort of stronghold by the FDA got rid of them, but there's also some very modern versions of them now, which are computerized, which obviously he couldn't do. But so just to say that I think the electromagnetic field concept I mean, we're, we're in a very low electromagnetic field when we're not around other gadgetry and we're inside the field of the earth, which, you know, the Schumann frequency, which are an important frequency that have been there since, you know, we evolved. So they are part of our evolution. So they're part of what is normal for us. And so those frequencies are quite important frequencies. When we start coming in with very set frequencies, like 50 Hertz for electricity and all these other things, we're actually interfering with a whole normal ability to stay in homeo homeostasis, to some extent.

Speaker 2: (44:06)
And this is where, yeah, the EMF side of the argument, or, you know, the, the problems that we're possibly facing with, with CMS, it's from all our devices and 5g coming, goodness knows what's X gonna do. And PEMF is very different though. It's using the right frequencies

Speaker 3: (44:24)
That's and it's also using the therapeutic way. And by and large, in, in at a low level, rather than a level, you don't necessarily, again, have to use these massive magnetic fields to get the effect that you want. You can use really very subtle ones.

Speaker 2: (44:39)
And again, it's working on the mitochondria, I believe from the research that I've done, it's actually having an effect on the mitochondrial health and function. And I, I just, I wish we had a, I wish everybody could have access to a place where we had all of these things lined up next to each other and, you know, the ones that are lower risk at least that we could all, you know, be able to use without huge costs involved in a utopia, perhaps something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (45:08)
I think we're moving a little bit towards that and I expect, and maybe on another occasion, I'll talk about sound therapy and how the that's another component of frequency, but I, I agree you can use to CS, which is cranial electric stimulation very simple devices like the alpha STEM, very expensive, what it is that almost immediately induces a sleepy, relaxed state.

Speaker 2: (45:40)
Yes. Yeah, I'll be, I'll be in that one too. So yes,

Speaker 3: (45:46)
It's kind of bizarre that you can just put two clips. I kept on each year and start the machine. And within minutes you're feeling drowsy and very relaxed,

Speaker 2: (45:57)
But it's mentioned and Ben Greenfield, he's a famous biohacker and trainer out of the States and his new book boundless, which is quite an amazing book. It's got, you know, everything known to man, and then he mentions the CES and using that to, to go to sleep every night and how it's improved as her sleep. So there's just so much things that are coming. And I, and I find it really exciting if we can integrate the traditional medical model with some of these like you are doing. And it's a really exciting thing for me. And I just wish we had more access for more people. It is, you see, before I don't need any promotion because I have so many people wanting to come to me and I can, I can truly believe that because there's such a need out there.

Speaker 3: (46:49)
The wonderful, unfortunately there are a few old phrases in medicine. One is that medicine changes coding. When the previous generation dies. It tends to prove slowly

Speaker 2: (47:04)
It's hard,

Speaker 3: (47:07)
People vote with their feet. And I think that's what we're seeing. A lot of people are actually saying, I don't want this. I want that. Rather than just accepting what's there, that's very healthy on the whole saying, okay, I'm, I'm getting quite informed about what I think I need. I just need someone to guide me through that process and if necessary me with some of the resources. And so I think that's a very important thing. And I think by and large, it is being embraced a bit in general practice to some extent, but probably less so as you move up the ladder into secondary and tertiary care, which is a kind of specialist areas,

Speaker 2: (47:48)
And this is why I think it's important that you know, where, you know, want to be in the preventative space where possible, so that we, you know, are looking at things before it gets to the point where everything's taken out of your control, because you're now in the intensive care or in the hospital, some where it's actually impossible to get any of these things. And it's important that we take control and ownership. And this is what the show is really all about is, is educating people about the things that are out there and the things that they can do their own research is it's a curation. If you like of information from brilliant minds in different areas, so that we can have, these can have these conversations and open up these discussions so that we can start to realize that there is more than just a pharmaceutical model or a surgical model, which is mostly what we were offered. I mean, those are very important and very good, but

Speaker 3: (48:44)
Yeah, they're largely the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. To some extent they have much more difficulty dealing with chronic longterm problems. They're good for the acute and the end, if, you know, if I break my leg, I'm going straight to the hospital.

Speaker 2: (49:00)
Yeah. Yeah. And then you might come home and do a hyperbaric session on the way home.

Speaker 3: (49:07)
Most of my I'd live in it.

Speaker 2: (49:09)
Exactly. I would tell you if I have one that you've got, that's brilliant. Just coming back to hormone sorry. I wanted to talk about hormones in relation to brain injury. Is there something you're seeing yes, under diagnosed often with traumatic brain injuries, especially

Speaker 3: (49:28)
A very interesting point. You bring up in time. I should I have a whole presentation on all of this, but one of the papers I'm just kind of going to,

Speaker 2: (49:38)
I have to get you back on to, to take us through the whole presentation.

Speaker 3: (49:43)
Okay. So this is, I'm just reading from my slide now, the prevalence of hypo pituitary ism. So you put your three glands just behind your eyes and produce several homelands in mild, moderate, and severe brain injury was estimated at 16.8% for mild. So that's nearly 17% interesting, only 10.9 for moderate and 35% for severe TBI. But what that saying is that people can have interference with some of their hormone production or a relatively mild event. TBI is common. We now realize one of the big things that's only recently kind of come to is how frequent TBI and what we call MTBI mild, traumatic brain injury, and eh, from sports through to domestic violence, through to all sorts of things where people are getting minor injuries all the time. When I say all the time, several in a row or within a period of time.

Speaker 3: (50:49)
And it can be that I had a sort of patient just this week, for instance, had come up from Christchurch to see me who had had an injury a year ago, where he had walked into a metal bar, cause he was looking the wrong way and wasn't actually knocked out. Then when I started talking about it, he said, Oh, well, yeah. And the previous year I did that. And then I fell over and hit my head, did that. And before that, and we had this whole series of minor traumatic brain injuries, and this was a store on the camel's back because since his last one he's hardly been able to work. He can't concentrate all these things that are familiar to us with MTBI. And so it's often that kind of background of quite a few, and then something knocks you out when they're not bad words, but something pushes you over the edge.

Speaker 2: (51:42)
And then you start to have, well, actually a year, we he's had some consult consults with me as well. And I've it, it, I think people think that they have to have her knocked out, had a major car accident before anything is actually a real problem or if they had it. So in the case of my brother who was a professional rugby player some of the things that I'm seeing in him now, and I have permission to talk about us information are signs to me of a delayed response to brain injury and, you know, helping him work through all of those, but often you, you won't know that it was the thing that you did 10 years ago, perhaps that can still be affecting your brain or that your personality has changed because of a brain injury or your energy levels, your hormones and so on. And this is why it's really important.

Speaker 3: (52:42)
And I'd also add in there that that store on the camel's back of that minor injury may actually be because there are other things going on, like other toxins, whether they're heavy metals are related to what you're working and so forth. So there can be a variety of other things that was sitting there in the background and until really challenged, didn't seem to have a problem with them yet when you're challenged, you do, and you then have to deal with those as well, come right through a detox process quite often to deal with some of the oldest. Well, some of the background stuff I should say.

Speaker 2: (53:26)
Yeah. And so, you know, looking at like with brain injury and optimizing brain health, we need to be looking at foundational health issues as well as okay. For the fancier things like the hyperbaric and the laser and all of those, the hormone assessment and, and starting to, to educate people around, you know, systemic inflammation and the job of mitochondria and all of these aspects, which heavy metal detoxing, which is something that we should all probably be interested in. And then layering on top of it. Some of these other therapies and that multipronged approach is something that I think has been the reason that I think I've been successful with mom is that having those, those layers and then continuing to look, what is the next thing, what is the next area that I can explore to bring the next but back? And as you say, it can build on each other. And as we get older, we build more toxicity in our body from metals. Most of us have got some sort of,

Speaker 3: (54:27)
We don't have history.

Speaker 2: (54:29)
We do, and we collect it and then it starts to it's that bucket there's that we sort of manage it to here and then it overflows and then it's all sorts coming out. So let's, you know, being in that preventative mindset of, okay, I'm going to help my body detox before I perhaps get something else happen to me. You know, it can be a good, a good way of looking at it. W we've covered a whole lot of areas everywhere. Just one last question for me, an area that I'm interested in, I've just got a new kit, new ozone therapy kit. What's your take on ozone? This is something I've just been getting into the last couple of weeks and researching is it, you know, like it seems to have some of the same benefits as hyperbaric in, in a way a different process and delivery, but it seems to be quite similar in some aspects. Have you had any experience with those on, at all

Speaker 3: (55:30)
A bit? I'm not an expert on it, so I'll say that, but I've read a fair amount on it. And I have a colleague working for my clinic now who has a perfusion equipment, which kind of topics I think like many things, it's a double edged sword. So people, first of all, must never have agree. Those are toxic to the lungs. So the idea that, Oh, I'll just get a kit and breed. Some is the completely wrong thing to do. So it has to be introduced into the body. And that's where we run into problems. First of all, because you can put it in through various artifices yep. Other than the breathing one. And that makes it plain or it can be given and it can be given intravenously in two ways. One literally as a bonus ozone, which is somewhat, could be risky.

Speaker 3: (56:36)
And although those that use it say that it isn't or you can take some blood off, mix it with Arizona and reproduce it, which is the one in Germany has been done for many years now. So there's quite a lot of research from them about its use. And I think it, it has a definite role as a, as a strong antiseptic for the staff. So in terms of killing bugs within the organism it probably has an anti cancer component. The problem with when we say probably is actually getting the research done. So again, this is more anecdotal evidence but it, it has a way of re oxygen icing, very similar, I think, to hyperbaric, but also sterilizing as well, which is slightly different from hyperbaric to barricade. It has to be an anaerobic bug for that to work. So I think it does have some definite roles. I think if you're doing your run, you you're talking, it's going to be very careful

Speaker 2: (57:46)
The home therapy. Yeah. That's ear insufflation and rectal insufflation cupping, that type of thing. But yes. Yeah, I think, I think it's a good thing to have a few obviously need to be taught and doing some training in it this week how to, how to use it safely. Definitely don't want it anywhere near your lungs. But it, it, that dangerous side, as far as the lungs is concerned, a very good thing to have as a basic first aid for any infection that you get, you know, speak Corona even maybe they are looking into the research at the moment is if it can help with the coronavirus. And I've got a dr. Rowan coming on my show next week, who's one of the world's top experts and ozone therapies are really excited. He actually went to Africa and the Ebola crisis got shut down, unfortunately by, shall we say the mafia somewhere over the, there, when he was treating patients and treating in training the doctors and it, but it is a very, it seems to have a lot of research over a long period of time.

Speaker 2: (58:56)
And again I think a very interesting one to do more research on yourself and to maybe add into the, to the, to the list of things that you can do.

Speaker 3: (59:08)
I definitely think so. And of course, you know, for me, I would be probably if I was concerned about personally concerned about Kobe, be using high dose intravenous vitamin C, which we do here anyway. So that's part of the same. But you brought up than I did. One of the research the Germans had done in Africa on malaria was using one of the blue lasers intravenously or into the vein while taking one of the B vitamins, which so this is using PDT, which is photo dynamic therapy. So photo meaning the laser dynamic, meaning you give something which sensitizes, whatever the target is to the laser in this case, it's the bacteria, or at least in his, but it's actually the malaria parasite I should say. And they showed very definite success with doing this wow light and the vitamin B irradiation.

Speaker 3: (01:00:18)
I think they call that. Yeah, there's UV radiation too. So this is a this is using PDT, which is similar, but using, for instance, one of the things that I've been working with is PDT here, where we use the infrared laser with the sensitizing agent, which is called InDesign and green. It's a green dye that they eye specialists use to look at the back of your eye and cancer cells taken up preferentially to normal cells and hold on to it. Whereas normal cells pass it through within 30 minutes. Wow. So what you do is you give this an hour or two before your treatment and then shine the laser light at the cancer. And I've had one remarkable disappearance of a cancer just doing that. So again, for everybody, before I get too many times, this is an area of interest and it's cool PDT photo dynamics.

Speaker 3: (01:01:25)
So using light with an agent that don't and I also use an ultrasound machine and the thing that sensitizes you to Roxanne is curcumin. So and using ultrasound and because Tim was hold onto it for a long time, you can use that to, Hmm, goodness. Isn't that funny? That's without me now, they won't go SPD T so no photodynamic therapy, right? I'm going to have to look at that one. Now this is experimental. So it's research stuff. So that's not something that's out there for everyone to go and get it's something being looked at around the world. There's a huge amount of research going on in medical circles and sciences to find the right agents, the lights frequencies and so forth, but a promising area using nanotechnology to deliver the sensitizer to the cancer as well. There's a lot of very fancy stuff going on.

Speaker 2: (01:02:34)
Wow. This is very exciting. Well, I think we've covered a lot of ground today. Heaven. We thank you so much, dr. Tome. I really appreciate your time. And the fact that you, we, you know, we have such a great doctor in our midst and who is looking at all of these very exciting areas and integrating knowledge from all areas and having such an open approach to it. I think that's absolutely brilliant. I wish you were bit more local. It would be good. I would love to have you again on the show to talk about, maybe do a presentation and the, the the information that you were talking about the just earlier at some stage when you have time, but I'm super appreciative of your time. Did I know that you're an extremely busy man? Is there anything that you would like to say to wrap up the show or any, any final words?

Speaker 3: (01:03:28)
I think just I'd support the whole idea of, of integrative medicine as a. And I think that can involve a whole load of different health practitioners working together to get that model by the way, rather than just one person as the way forward to the future for getting, not just from disease to some degree of wellness, but getting to full wellbeing, the next layer up. And I think that's really where we're heading and a lot of ways through lifestyle, you know, diet, all of these different things. And to me, like you've been talking about today, what excites me particularly is the idea of using light color sound and vibration as part of that journey. I think it's fascinating. I think we're only partway there. We haven't mentioned sound yet. That's another whole area, so there's some interesting things going on to try to make that happen.

Speaker 2: (01:04:21)
Very exciting times ahead. I can't wait for a little bit more research to happen and to make it more less expensive in more doable for people so that they can actually get up. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. And we hope to, Hey, hope to have you on again soon.

Speaker 1: (01:04:42)
That's it this week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this interview Lisa interviews top Holistic movement and health coach David Liow of www.hm-coach.com. Lisa and David do a deep dive into why our circadian rhythms are out of whack, what blue light blocking glasses can do for your health and sleep dysfunctions. They also look into health optimisation and foundational health principles. David Liow completed a post-graduate MPhEd (dist) at Otago University and became a Occupational Therapy lecturer in rehabilitation, anatomy, and kinesiology, then a senior lecturer in Exercise Rehabilitation and Resistance Training. While teaching in higher education, he kept following his passion in sports training and spent a decade working with High Performance Sport New Zealand as a lead strength and conditioning coach. This gave him the opportunity to work with a wide range of world class athletes. Some career highlights so far are: * Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns * Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns * Head trainer and regional trainer for NZ Women's and Men's Hockey for several Commonwealth and Olympic Games. * Head trainer for the NZ Titleist Men and Women's Golf Academy for several Espirito Santo and Eisenhower Trophy Championship teams. * Trainer for numerous Commonwealth and Olympic athletes in athletics, basketball, through to swimming. * Regularly speaking at FitEx NZ, Filex, Asia Fitness Conference, ExPRO, Asia Edufit Summit, and other international health and fitness events. * Health coaching pop bands on international concert tours around the globe. * Co-directing Kaizen Exercise Physiologists to develop a world-class team of exercise physiologists * Co-founder of the Kaizen Institute of Health

David says the Holistic Movement Coach Programme is the perfect vehicle for him to live his mission and share his life's work. He is obsessed with finding the best ways to be healthier and move better. To balance out his obsession(s) he is also a tai chi and chi kung practitioner and teacher, and practices the lifestyle that he teaches Findo out more about David and his work and courses at www.hm-coach.com To get a discount on the blue light blocking glasses mentioned in this podcast use the coupon code Lisa at checkout at https://hm-coach.com/index.php/store/ Grab your blue blocking glasses here in our shop https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/clothing-and-accessories/products/blue-light-blocking-glasses-v2-0-free-postage We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

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ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

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—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)

Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Today I have a special treat for you guys. I have David Liow on the podcast from the sunshine coast, originally a Kiwi. Now David is a Legion and the fitness industry in New Zealand and Australia and Australasia. Uh, he has, uh, MPH ed from Otago university and was an occupational therapy lecturer in rehabilitation and anatomy and kinesiology. And then a senior lecturer in exercise rehabilitation and resistance training. He worked for a decade with high performance sport New Zealand and was the head trainer of the New Zealand black socks, was two successful world series campaigns. He's also worked with golfers and a number of Olympic athletes and athletics, basketball right through to swimming and he as a holistic movement coach. And today we're going to be diving into the topic of light and blue light blocking glasses. Um, something that David has developed his own range of blue locket, blue, blue light blocking glasses and why you should be interested in this.

Speaker 2: (01:17)
We get into sleep, uh, dysfunctional sleep. We get into, um, holistic movement and what that's all about. So a really, really interesting interview with David. Uh, before I go over to David, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available in the bookstores right throughout the New Zealand. If you're listening from New Zealand, you can grab it at any bookstores around the country or of course if you're overseas or you want to grab it off my site, I'd love you to do that. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com To do that. Um, just reminder too, we also have a regular epigenetics webinars that we're holding. Our next one is on the swings day night, but if you're listening to this podcast later, go to epigenetics.lisatamati.com for the next webinar. Now this is all about our epigenetics health program, which is using the latest in genetic science to understand your genes and how to optimize them and what's, what's the best environment for those genes.

Speaker 2: (02:16)
So information about every area of your life from nutrition of course, and exercise, what to eat, when to eat, how often to eat, what types of exercise will suit your genes right through to your social, your mental, your intellectual talents that you may not be aware of, what the way that your brain works brought through to the neurotransmitters and the hormones that are dominant and how they will affect your personality. So it's a really amazing insight for health program that we're using both with corporates and individual athletes and people interested in optimizing their health. If you want to check that out, go over to the programs tab on our website at lisatamati.com right now over to the show with David Liow. Well hi everyone. Lisa Tamati to hear back at pushing the limits and I am with David Liow How are you doing Dave?

Speaker 3: (03:08)
I'm very well this morning. Thanks Lisa. You're over on the sunshine coast. I am, which is looking quite sunny this morning and we had a lot of rain last night, but the sunny coast is a sunny coast today.

Speaker 2: (03:17)
That was perfect. We've already, uh, um, Rick the morning for your whole family, trying to get on the same call and waking your daughter up and getting your laptop and stuff like that. So apologize to you, to your family, but you, we've got you on here, so I'm really, really privileged to have you on. Again, Dave, you're a return offender to my, uh, podcast. Um, you were on a couple of years ago I think goes so well, but so really excited to catch up with you. And today we're going to be talking a couple of different areas and we'll probably wander off path, but today everyone, it's about light and blue light blocking glasses that you may have heard about and why this is important and sleep. Um, Dave's an expert in this area and there's actually gone out and designed his own, uh, glasses for people. Um, so we're going to be getting into all of that good stuff. But Dave, tell us what you've been up to in the last couple of years and what you do over there on the sunshine coast.

Speaker 3: (04:12)
So in the sunshine coast, I have a exercise physiology clinic, which unfortunately isn't shut down at the moment. So we're on a, we're doing a lot of remote work, which is why communicated well, zoom has become a big commodity here at the moment in my household. So I also mentor a group of, uh, some of the best trainers in the world, many of which are based in New Zealand actually. So I worked with that group there and take them right through their education work. I do a lot of presenting to, so I'm often in Asia and New Zealand. I spend a lot of time in New Zealand. In fact, I was in New Zealand pretty much the whole of February. Just got back in time before things went the Casta key way. Of course, I am of course a Kiwi. Absolutely. So, but I've been, I've been over here for about 10 years now. Um, but certainly, um, I still do a lot of work in New Zealand in particular and a fair bit in Australia, funnily enough. Cause that's where I live.

Speaker 2: (05:08)
Yeah. And you have a hell of a reputation, uh, in the, in the personal training and the fitness training space. Um, you talk to anybody who's done anything, you know, above the sort of basic stuff and they know who you are. Um, so you've got a long, long history. You are a holistic movement coach. Can you explain what that is?

Speaker 3: (05:27)
Absolutely. So holistic movement coach, the idea is it's more than movement and that's pretty much what they're, what the logo says. So much more than movement because what I found is, I guess I've been doing this for over 25 years now and what I've, what I've always specialized in is the, the mechanics of the body. Yep. So I look at what's connected to what, look at how the tissues work, look at how joints work, look at how people move. And that was my world. But what I found after a while is that's not enough because we're more than just joints and leavers so much more. So if you don't look after the other part, that's where the holistic part comes in. If you don't look after the whole person after everything from their mindset through to the asleep, through the nutrition, there's just no way you can, you can get your results. So you can have the best training program in the world, the best corrective exercise program in the world. But if, if your minds are, you're stressed out of your brain or sleeping, I don't care what you give someone that's just not going to work.

Speaker 2: (06:23)
That's so funny that you come to the same conclusion and we, I mean a lot of people have late. I think as we do more research and starting to see also when you're training somebody or two people and you're getting completely different results and you're giving them the same program and the same goals and they're the same type of person and same age or whatever and you're like, why is that person getting results? And they're not. So really being that personal spaces in that holistic looking at, cause I truly believe like our mind is so like important for healing. You know, it's not just mechanical isn't, it? Isn't just when you've got a sore back. It isn't just necessarily about the back. Oh no way. Can you explain

Speaker 3: (07:03)
cliques and I know you've had some speakers talk about pain as well. Pain is extremely complex. That said output not an input. So certainly when you're talking about pain and injury, there's so much going on with the brain with there. Surely some mechanical parts that can have a role. But I mean the top two inches are just absolutely vital and you know with your background only. So you know that in terms of a high performance, but you can apply that to any field. You know, I guess one of the big differences there that I've come across is we're so focused on loading people. That's been our thing. How do we train people? How do we add more load onto people that's adding more stress on the people. So, and you know, I'll talk at a conference, there'll be, you know, there might be 50 talks on at the conference, 45 of them will be about loading, how to lot people with heel bells, how to load them with power bands, how to, how to Olympic lifting.

Speaker 3: (07:55)
Those things are great. Don't get me wrong. And I teach those and I do those. But where's the other part about getting people recovering? Well, getting them in the right place. So one of the key fundamentals and holistic movement coach is getting people in the right place so they can accept load. And then that's a really big point of difference. So if you can get people in the right space, then you apply your load, you can apply whatever load you want and they'll be fine. But until you're in that space, you're going to have nothing but breakdown.

Speaker 2: (08:24)
Yeah, and this is like, this is a real mind shift because like I know you've worked with a lot of elite level athletes and you know, in, in, in my stupid career, and I don't count myself as an elite athlete, I count myself as one of those stupid stubborn ones. But that I had that mentality just go hard or go home, you know, go harder, go harder, go harder. It was always the answer. If I wasn't getting results go harder. And it took me a long time to realize, especially as I got older, that approach was no working. And how do you reconcile that for people that are in the elite space set are just used to going full bore and then that suddenly not getting the results they used to get.

Speaker 3: (09:06)
Yeah, it's funny, I had a conversation with a group of athletes the other day and what I normally find is you are the classic woman, high performance athlete. You really are most of the guys, well I always find the individual athletes work harder than team athletes. Um, ones that work in funded sports and you know, great athletes here. And this is a massive generalization, sorry guys out there who are listening to this and going, hang on when work with you, I worked hard. But you find that the individual athletes work harder. Most of the men, you need to kick up the ass. You need to hold them back. So you, you're the classic one, but you live, you got smarter as you train. And I've read your journey and how you, how you run. You're constantly there to listen to, you know, when the, when the, when the student's ready, the teacher appears and, and you know, you certainly, um, you know, you figured out some, some pretty cool stuff and you know, that's the stuff that you apply in your program now. So yeah,

Speaker 2: (10:14)
you know that someone like Neo because I would argue and argue and argue with him, but eventually I came around cause what I was doing was right.

Speaker 3: (10:22)
Hello. He was right to have it

Speaker 2: (10:27)
fancy that I had to, Murray was right all along. But it is, it's a really hard shift and I think, you know, cause you get away with a lot when you're 20, well you knew 40 and you're still trying to be at the top of your game or your mid thirties even. You start to have a different things going on and things aren't recovering as well as they were. And even though you're doing the same thing, it's just not more of the same to every decade. I reckon you need a complete new approach.

Speaker 3: (10:56)
You need to do it smarter. And I've got a guy who, um, is in, he's, he goes to the world championship, um, uh, triathlon every year and he's been doing that for, I've been working with him for the last, since I arrived here, nine years now. And he got a three fastest times last year actually. The last one was blue, which is the last triathlon event before they closed down all the events here. So he's getting faster and faster and faster and know when he sees 50, 53 now. And we had a chat the other day and we were laughing about it and he's saying, you know, my three fastest times I've been in my last, you know, my last year, he said, yeah, we were actually starting to get the hang of it now. So look we can, we can flip the age card. Look there is a part to play I'm getting on as well, but we're looking at that experience you can bring to the table there. And I'm often training with young guys and I'm not going to, you're doing it right for an old guy. And I say, you got really well for young guy. He hasn't got nearly experienced I have,

Speaker 2: (11:55)
but don't ever compliment them so I can find out the hard way. But there is, it just has to be done smarter, so much smarter. And you know, we all look at ourselves as young athletes and go, Oh man, I had so much raw ability there. But then you look at how you're training now and go, boy, I'm so much smarter now. If you can take the, I'd much rather have a smarter than a roar athlete, get combined the two and you've got something really special and give it time. And I think like now we're starting to crack and this is an area of study that really interests me is longevity for obvious reasons. I'm getting older, my parents are getting old and I want to keep everyone alive and healthy. So that's the focus of my study in a lot of ways. Um, and we are working things out now to slow that aging process and reverse a lot of the danger, a lot of the problems that we've caused ourselves.

Speaker 2: (12:47)
So, um, I'm excited for some of the stuff I've been getting, you know, reading all sorts of stuff. I'm on peptides and all this sort of stuff and just wishing I could get access to some of the stuff and try it all out cause I'm a tree blew by a hacker, you know, try everything out on your own body, see how it works. Um, and there's some amazing stuff coming in. The information that's coming, uh, down the pipeline. If we can just stay healthy long enough, we, we've got a good chance at living really long, healthy lives. I think, you know, in the next 10 years there's going to be so much change happen that, you know, good things are gonna happen if we're onto it and we know we're aware of what's coming in the space. So I'm really excited for the, you know, being able to maintain performance for longer and have, you know, health and longevity, you know, beyond the hundred.

Speaker 2: (13:35)
I think that that's, you know, well and truly possible. So exciting. Um, and of course too, because health has that foundation. Yeah. We call it health and fitness. I mean it has to be healthy. Then fitness. You can't have one without the other. I know you had some real challenges in the query there and when that health goes, you can forget about the other part of it cause it's just not going to last year that's still undoing some of the damage I've done to my body. I've managed to save my kidneys and get them back on track, but then, you know, hormones came into the picture and um, you know, uh, troubles in the lady department and all that sort of jazz that's not on a fix and he has a lot to unravel. If I'd done it differently, um, back then. And of course, you know, doing extreme ultramarathons brings with it dangerous. It's not, you know, it's not, um, you know, a couple of hours running around the roads. It's doing really, really at the limit things and what is a coach now, I'm always like concerned. Sometimes I find myself like being that old mother be, it's like, Hey, no, don't push that hard. Go to those lengths because you know, sometimes it's not worth it for a competition. You know, um, one of the things that I often find myself saying to people as they, you know, they, they equate,

Speaker 3: (14:52)
uh, fitness with health. But boy, you know, sports not about health. It's about seeing how hard you can push yourself before you or your opponent breaks. So, you know, and that is the pointy end of performance. So you know, the way you've been pushing yourself, there's, there's, that's where you've, you've got to have everything covered and that's where a lot of that approach you said about your health and getting all those bits and pieces there. Because if you can get all those, those bases covered, you have got potential to push yourself through. Well, but a lot of people don't bring that health to that, that base health to the

Speaker 2: (15:26)
they face table. In other words, yeah. High performance sport or extreme endurance sport in my case is not healthy in of itself. Um, and I like, I truly believe like I was extremely fit in one way. I could run for hundreds of Ks, but I was sick. And if I look at myself in the way I looked and the way my body and my phenotype, my body was presenting, I did not look healthy. I look healthier. I look, funnily enough, more athletic now because I'm not holding all the fluid and my kidneys and working again. And my, you know, I was always four or five. I was quite puffy, you know, I was quite, um, I was always a muscular build, but I was puffy and unhealthy looking. And I always sort of was carrying white, you know, and wondering why when I'm doing millions of kilometers a year. And, um, and now I know why. Cause my body was just complete in hormonal hell and adrenal hell and, and, and so I was fit, but I was not healthy. And now for me, it's all about being healthy and longevity in having foundation or health.

Speaker 3: (16:36)
Yeah. And bringing that to you, you runners that you're working with in your groups. That's, that's, um, you know, that's gonna make, uh, uh, people enjoy what they do, so much more in it, achieve great things. So that's the way it should be done. So good on you for learning the lesson.

Speaker 2: (16:51)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then being able to share the insights. And it's funny that we both come to the same sort of conclusions. Well it's probably logical. I suppose it's also a part of the age that we're at and having that maturity to be able to not just, it's not all just about much Muchow call I go go. It's about being strategic and you know, and I look at you, a lot of young athletes that are, you know, it's all about their abs and it's all about, you know, how sexy they look and that approach has also not healthy. Like it's not going to bring healthy just cause you're like ripped. Um, especially when it comes to woman. I think, you know, like we have this, you know, the ideal that isn't actually necessarily or always a healthy ideal. It's uh, it might look good for five minutes and your beginning ideal, but it's not exactly, we should be health wise and hormonally and all of that sort of stuff. We've gone completely off track cause today was me talking. But I love talking to people like you. So let's get back to blue light blocking glasses. Um, and why, why these are important, what they do and how, how does, um, having the wrong light at the wrong time affect your health?

Speaker 3: (17:59)
I guess we need to kind of talk about light to start with. And you know, if you think about the foundations of health, we think about the foundations of who we are as as humans we've always been exposed to light and dark. Those are two things that have never changed. We've had ever, and the way that we've operated, well, most and most cultures is that you are active in the day. That's the time you hunt together and at night that's the time you sleep. Because as cave men and cave woman, we were the fastest beings or strongest. So if you go hunting at night, unfortunately that say with two tigers got a better night vision than you have. So that's not a logical time for you to go and do your thing. So we've always been exposed to that as a way of regulating where our systems at and where we are.

Speaker 3: (18:46)
Every cell in your body has a circadian rhythm. So it's Acadia means about a day. So every cell in your body knows has a certain function at a certain time. And there's a neat little Wikipedia article on this, which basically says at different times where your reaction times best and you know this yourself, you get up, you have a certain routine that you'll go through. There are times you'll feel hungry, there are times you'll go to the toilet. There are times that your your most awake, most alert times that you want to go to sleep. So we have a whole rhythm built into our behaviors. In every single cell in our body has behaviors and actions that are governed by Diana light. So this is one of the foundation rulers of how our body works.

Speaker 2: (19:29)
Absolutely. So, so, okay, so what we've done in the last couple of hundred years, or I don't know how long we've actually had electric life, but ever since we've had electric glide, we've tipped everything up on its ear and we now have light at night time, whereas in the caveman days, and this is where our DNA hasn't evolved with the way that we've changed our lifestyle so quickly. Um, so we were exposed to, you know, televisions and lights and artificial lights and fluorescent light and horrible, lots of light, uh, at nighttime when our bodies are producing the hormones to go to sleep, your melatonin and things like this. Um, if, if we even go back, like I've just been reading a book by T S Wiley on hormone or health for woman and so on. And she talks about the fact that back in the old days when we were only governed by Moonlight, all woman's cycled at the same time. And I was like, wow. So we used to be all in sync with the moon and, and, and like how much light male camping trips that are out there. Months. We're outta here. But isn't that interesting that we, you said we used to be completely governed and this is, you know, back in the cave man days by those cycles of day and night and now are who is so, um, you know, bombarded with other types of light that are all about cycles, have now become individual.

Speaker 3: (20:51)
They're that light exposure. That's a better message. That's a, that's a great point because we used to have real light and real dark. So if I'm looking outside now, it's a pretty sunny day here. Um, so lights measured and what the units called a lax. And ALEKS is the amount of light put out by a candle when it's one meter away from you. So that's one Luxe. So, um, if you're looking at Moonlight, we'll go with Moonlight. Moonlight is around maybe 0.5 to one Luxe. So it's a very light amount of light. Well, it's a very small amount of night. So if I'm looking at a room, let's say you're, um, soft lighting in a, in a bedroom that's 50 Lux. If you were sitting in your room, you're in your dark room. That's not a dark room. That's 50 lacks. And what's happening now is with all the artificial light.

Speaker 3: (21:38)
And um, for me, I live in the suburbs so my neighbors have their light on it. It puts a, you know, I can, if I walk outside I'll see that. So we're not exposed to real dark. Our darks not dark, right. If we flip it the other way too, our light's not light. So I'm looking outside at the moment. I've probably got 50,000 Lux of natural sunlight out there. If I'm sitting in an office though, I've probably got 300 Lux. So when I'm in day sitting in my light, I'm not sitting in real life. And when I'm at night, I'm not sitting in real dark. So now we have 50 shades of gray thing going on at that movie. We've got that all the time. So we're not seeing real dark and real life. Some of the people that probably, well hopefully watching, listening to our interview today, um, they may get up in the morning, it might be dark where they are too.

Speaker 3: (22:29)
They might flick on a light bulb, they'll hop in their car, they'll go to their office underground, they'll go to their office where they'll sit in their cubicle all day with their first flight. They can't get out for lunch, cause are busy. They'll come home by then it might be getting a bit dark too. They'll go and they'll sit in front of their TV. So I get no exposure to real dark or real life. And boy that is a foundation for how our body operates. You get that wrong, you miss that up. Um, you can get a whole range of interesting symptoms. Every system, every cell in your body is affected by that. So we're at see where it goes. Nobody knows, but it's not going to be good.

Speaker 2: (23:06)
No. And this is, it fixed. So many systems like we have, you know, a hormonal system as a, as I mentioned before, we've got out melatonin production and now our eyes. Um, and, and also the fact that like, that's getting to the, you know, uh, the subject of, of why sunlight's important and we've all been told like, you know, don't put sunscreen on and make sure you're covered up when you go out in the sun and so on. And that is actually, we're not giving enough vitamin D. I mean, everyone knows that we produce vitamin D when we go in to the sunshine, but I don't think people know how important vitamin D and all of the processes is actually a prohormone. They're calling now, not a vitamin because it's so many parts of the body and so many organs. Everything from your, your mood, which we do understand that, you know, that produces it seasonal, um, disorder.

Speaker 2: (23:56)
Um, but it also like is, is a, is the building block one of the building blocks of your hormones, of your, your, uh, your mood in, you know, all of these things are being affected. Even your bone health, you know, like vitamin D is one of those crucial things. Um, and we can supplement with vitamin D. And I think for a lot of people that's a great thing to be doing if you can't get the normal amount of sunlight. Um, and I was reading, but yeah, we need to actually go outside and get sun on our eyes and sun on our skin. What actually happens when we go out and we get that sunlight, cause I used to wear a, I still do most of the time because I've got very sensitive eyes to light. So I've been wearing my sunglasses forever and a day outside. Why is it important that I take my sunglasses?

Speaker 3: (24:44)
So what are doing Mary can mean particularly for people who have sleep problems is they get some real sunlight in your eyes, particularly in that first half of the day. So their morning sun. So that's the most important time. So when that light comes through, so lights made it a whole lot of different colors. So all the colors of the rainbow, the Roy Bev thing, but typically a daylight or or, or a real real life. It's very high in blue light. When that comes through, it goes through your eyes and there's some photo of, there's some fairly sensitive ganglion cells. So there's some specific cells in your eyes which are right in your written to the there which, which sends signals to your master clock in your brain, which then sends signals out to the rest of your body letting you know what time it is.

Speaker 3: (25:31)
So that morning sun. So sunglasses, I've got no problems with sunglasses. If you're out in the sun all day, but getting up, you know, being in sunglasses all day, that's going to do you a disservice. So ideally you want some, some real light in your eyes. Take the 15 minutes is great, you know, thirties fifteens, but even five minutes better than nothing, right? So if you are struggling with sleep, even if you can eat your breakfast outside or get a little bit of a walking from your car to the office or around the block, getting some real sunlight that will help your brain distinguish, okay, this is daytime. Then if you can get some real dark, okay, then your brain can start thinking, okay, now I understand what time of day it is so I can start getting my cycles right.

Speaker 2: (26:14)
Wow, that's, that's powerful stuff. And then, and then so many knock on effects for our health and we'll do that and when we do it wrong. And you know what, um, I'm working with a few different people that are unfortunately in hospital at the moment with, you know, various problems, um, delights in the hospital. Like we were sticking our sickest, most vulnerable people under these horrific lights that are going all night. I mean, of course the nurses need to move around and see. So it's a bit of a, I don't know how to fix the problem. Yeah, jeez. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (26:44)
so there's the fluoro. So flouro and led lights are particularly high in blue light too. So when you're in those hospitals, um, Chang airport says another place if you wish. I'm obviously not at here at the moment, but I go and the amount of light in their places, often they're at 3:00 AM in the morning in between places. Those lights. Singles are incredibly strong and that's effectively that blue light coming from those lights here is telling your brain that it's, it's middle of the day. So I always thinking about the nurses that work in those places too. That's a know that's a real health hazard for them. So unfortunately we've got all these lights in our houses now too. So led lights are very energy efficient but also extremely, extremely powerful. So you've got a whole of intensity but also very, very high in blue light.

Speaker 3: (27:34)
The old school filament, like light bulbs are very low and blue lights. So the old school lights though, they do more energy. We're actually far better for your health, for your health. Wow. That's no good. No, not unfortunately not. And that's where you, you candle lights really great too. And you know, when we were thinking back to our roots, and this is, you know, if we look in the past to find out how we need to kind of operate for our health today, um, you know, fire is also very low and blue light. So sitting around a fire is actually very common. It doesn't wake you up unless you're sitting too close to the fire. That's out candle lights.

Speaker 3: (28:16)
Um, just on that, you know, um, a change of temperature, but before you go to bed is also another good sleep. You know, this is why when you, when you increase the warmth or what, um, or even cold would actually, well, as long as you change the temperature that you've been in, that signals to your body is a change coming at something you go to sleep. So that's another little trick and you know why? Probably sitting around the fire that doesn't have blue light and that will help you go, go and not off afterwards. That idea of sleep routines is just fantastic and yeah, you know, and you know, having a good receipt routines, fantastic. And we do this with our kids where we're grading it, you know? Yeah. Okay, we're going to get ready to go to bed now. Okay, we'll brush your teeth.

Speaker 3: (28:55)
Now we're going to do a story here. Okay. We're going to put on your bedside lamp. We'll turn the light down and we'll go to sleep. But when we're adults, we kind of forget about that. And you go, Oh, okay, I'll watch till the end of this program here. And it might be one big, one time you'll go to bed, might be 9:00 PM. Next one, it's 1130. It's all over the show. We don't do that with our kids. And we forget about those routines. And part of that is, is light light's a big part of that. That's the most important part of your sleep routine is getting your light source right. That's exactly right. And this is why. So you learned this and then you said, right, I'm going to go and buy some blue light blocking glasses. Yeah, I did that too. And um, you know, you go on the internet, you Google up somewhere on Etsy or eBay or somewhere and you buy something.

Speaker 2: (29:41)
And what did you find with those glasses?

Speaker 3: (29:44)
Yeah. Um, so achieve one of your, I know we um, a previous speaker you head on was talking about sleep apnea and positional sleep apnea. So look, I've always thought I slept pretty well, but when I started working on my sleep apnea and my breathing boy, I went to another level and I got quite excited about it and once I fell out of a blue light and the effects that have, I thought, man, I've got to get that right. So exotic executive, same as you. I went out and I bought about 20 pairs of glasses from, from all sorts of people. And when I did my research there, I found out, okay, I need to find out about transmission spectrum or in other words, what colors or what, what frequencies of light were blocking, uh, with those glasses. So every pair of glasses that I bought, I emailed the manufacturer and said, tell me about your glasses.

Speaker 3: (30:36)
What transmission spectrum are they are and what have they been tested? Most of them never even got back to me. And the ones that did had no idea what you're doing. I started thinking, well come on, this can't be right. And it didn't seem to matter what price I paid for those glasses either. Even some of the so called blue light glasses websites. They had no idea or no data supporting what they're actually doing. So what you were getting was all over the show. Sometimes I'd actually find, I'd get the same pair of glasses from, from two different manufacturers and they were the same pair of glasses, but they were totally different. I had totally different stats on them. All the lenses were different colors and they said they were the same.

Speaker 3: (31:17)
Absolutely. Here's an example of when I got here and I'll just put that this is what a typical, yeah, blue light glass looks like. It's got a slight orange tinge to it and that blocks certain colors. So particularly the blue is the color we want to block. And what that does is that takes away the signal to our brain that it's, it's, it's daylight. So the idea with blue light blocking glasses is to tell your brain you with them at night to tell your brain that it's not daytime. So that was a so called blue light blocking. These are cheap here. I think that was maybe, maybe 40 bucks or something off some internet site and that's mine. And if we have difference in color block the same amount of light. Wow. I completely different. No they don't because I actually ended up getting an optometry lab, um, to produce mine cause I got so disappointed with the quality of, of glasses and I said there's no way I'm going to wear these myself and if I shouldn't wear them, why the hell would I ask other people to wear them? We

Speaker 2: (32:18)
had as a lay person, you read the advertising material and you, you know that the science is correct. Like the, the, you know what we've been saying about and it makes sense to you and then you go and buy some and then you're disappointed because it's not doing well. You don't notice. You just think I'm doing it right. And I, and I've got it right and I haven't. So now you've got these available. So, um, I will be putting, uh, the links of course to, to your glasses and uh, in the show notes. Um, but just let us know where we came. Can we grab your glasses from?

Speaker 3: (32:49)
Yep. So holistic movement coaches though my company, so it's H M with a-coach.com and they are available in the store there and I'm sure if we ask Lisa nicely, she might put a coupon code in for you.

Speaker 2: (33:04)
We're going to do that and I'll put that in the show notes or I'd actually like to list them up on our site and drop, you know like yeah. So that people have them available. So yeah, either go to Dave's website or my website and you'll be able to grab those ones. We'll, we'll sort that out afterwards. Um, so

Speaker 3: (33:21)
Lisa, you were talking about melatonin before then. That's one of the things that got me really excited when I started looking at the glasses and there was one study there that kind of, I looked at it and went, wow, that's amazing. And they had two groups of people. One had a clear lens and the other one had a blue light blocking glasses lens and that it was good quality lens. It was pretty much the same as mine. Yup. And they showed the melatonin levels creeping up during the night and that's what should happen. So melatonin is, is it's basically a hormonal signal for dark. It's your body's way of saying it's dark and those levels creep up as soon as it starts getting dark and they were going the same, um, until what happened is the blue light blocking glasses guys had a much higher level of melatonin than the ones that were wearing the clear lenses.

Speaker 3: (34:10)
So since I were in a, they were in a, a room, which was about 150, lax, which is a, uh, and average lounge. Yep. Um, the blue light blocking glass folks had a much higher melatonin level so that we're getting the appropriate signal. But what was interesting though was after they went to sleep in the morning, the folks at block blue light had less melatonin first thing in the morning. Absolutely. Because the last thing, when you're awake, you don't want melatonin running around your body. So they wake up drowsy. So typically people who don't block blue light will struggle to get to sleep because they're not getting their chemical message from melatonin that it's dark. But then in the morning they get stuck with that excess melatonin and find it hard to get going. There are a few, one of those folks that struggle to get to sleep and also struggle to get going in the morning. That exposure to light could be a really big factor

Speaker 2: (35:03)
and this and the melatonin and the cortisol are related and I'm not an expert on this, but I, I started taking, cause I was having trouble sleeping melatonin tablets, you know, um, supplements and I was, you know, it was good. I was sleeping much better. Um, then I did a blood test and I'm not quite sure, you know, but my, my doctor rang me up in a bit of a panic going, you know, your melatonin levels are 10,000 times too high. Um, uh, and um, your, your blood, I think you've serum levels or whatever. It's not, you know, actually 10,000, but it was, it was a lot higher and I had no cortisol like when they, cause they did the cortisol tests and I don't know whether it was related to the melatonin or not, but since stopping the melatonin and implementing some other things to be fair, um, my cortisol levels are now back at the top end of normal range. So they're toppings. But um, so it's a bit of a uh, uh, so you're just taking a supplement of melatonin, um, can be a good thing, but you have to be a little bit careful with that as well.

Speaker 3: (36:09)
Melatonin's is a strange one and I used to recommend people to take melatonin once upon a time, but you know, melatonin is the only hormone that you can buy across the counter or even online and get it shipped to you. I mean, imagine doing that with testosterone or, or any other hormones you've got in your body. It's, it's, it's a strange one and it's very unregulated. So when you get a melatonin, if you're taking a pill or a capsule or drop, the dose you get is often very different from the dose that you experienced in your body too. So it's very unregulated. So you pay a little bit tricky with the brains you're using. Now what you found nearly so in your perfect example of that is your levels went sky high because often what happens is melatonin builds up and production peaks around the middle of your sleep cycle. If you were went to bed at 10 and woke up at six, halfway through that would be about 2:00 AM. So that's when your melatonin levels are really cranking. But when you take a melatonin before you go to sleep, you're going to get that peak very, very early as well. So now you're going to get a hormonal message, which is in the wrong time of that cycle too. So they can still sit up some, some little issues there. And if you're getting crazy high levels of that, that can cause you some issues.

Speaker 2: (37:22)
And this was only one tablet, a little wee tiny tablet. So it wasn't, you know, like overdosing or anything. And then the cortisol, which is your stress hormone, but it's one we want in the morning, absolutely was in that gutter. So I was like waking up like, Oh my God, do I have to get out of bed because I don't want, you know, there's just no get up and go. And it was just sheer grit to get up

Speaker 3: (37:41)
flooded with melatonin. That time there and you know, you did right cortisol as you'd get up and go in the morning. So melatonin should plumb it in the morning because it's no longer dark. It's time to get up cortisol levels. It should be the highest there to get you out of bed. So you start playing around with that system. Um, bye. Introducing foreign substances in. Yeah. You

Speaker 2: (38:02)
know, you can get some varied results, which you may not be wanting to do it under controlled if you're going to do it, you know, Drake that you're measuring it too though, you know, at least you know what's working for you and what's not working for you. Yeah. And, I mean, unfortunately we can't go and get a cortisol test every week or a blood test every week. So it's always a time and point. Um, but you know, and when you, because I've, you know, struggled for a long time with adrenal insufficiency, surprise, surprise, and, you know, a lot of people have high cortisol, whereas I was like, no cortisol, like not producing any hormones of any sort for everything in the gathering, wondering why, why, when I'm training my ass off, things aren't working, you know. Um, and, and starting to, you know, over the last couple of years, starting to unravel that mess and get it back.

Speaker 2: (38:54)
And it's not a, it's not easy and it's, it's, it's hard in course when you're going through the change changes in life anyway, and you've got all that going on. But we, um, you know, we can optimize this if we, if we, if we learn enough, if we get the right doctors, if we get the right support and this and getting our hormones right so that we stay in the best optimal ranges I think is, um, but you do need to do that under the auspices of a good, hopefully a functional doctor if you don't want to be playing around with these things Willy nilly, you know, even melatonin, even though you can buy it over the counter, can have adverse effects. Um, as a culture we're always looking for that quick fix or that pill always. I think melatonin is like step 42 and ways of getting better sleep.

Speaker 2: (39:44)
A good way of putting it is it is one of the tools and the cats, it needs to be done in a regulated fashion and it needs to be done a little bit carefully. And the other things are lower hanging fruit. The natural way is a better way. If we can go what it looks like looking glasses and angel. Certainly, you know, if you can sleep in a dark room, I love that temperature. The idea of temperature you had before. Get the temperature right in your room. If you can dim your lights as well and try and keep away from bright lights at night, that's got to help. And look, something's better than nothing. But you know, certainly if you are really struggling with your sleep and you want to get that back on track, working with light and dark is number the number one thing I work with with sleep disturbances.

Speaker 2: (40:25)
That's the first thing I'll look at. Yeah, absolutely. And then, I mean we had that lovely interview last week with James Morris on the show. Um, it might be a couple of weeks back by the time people hear this. And that's a really important one to to go and, and understand. Cause you know, like someone like you, you said you have positional sleep apnea. Um, you know, you are extremely fit and extremely, you know, uh, into health. And most people are quite amnio with people who are overweight. To people who drink too much, people who you know have diabetes perhaps or, or those sorts of co-morbidities. Um, how did you discover it? If you don't mind sharing and what, do you have to be on a C pap machine? Or are you just doing the mild sleep apnea, which a lot of us will have by the way? Absolutely. So I've always been a snorer. My father's a snore and my brother's a snorer. Yeah. So, and it comes down to airway. So when you sleep, part of sleeping is, is relaxation. And that's where the repair happens. That's why we spend a third of a bedroom, a third of our life there. But, um, when you're, when you're relaxing, part of the issue too is that your, the muscles around

Speaker 3: (41:34)
your, um, your jaw relax as well. So if you're lying on your back, and particularly what that means is the tongue can come back and it can block the airway. The railway is only about as thick as a straw. It's a, it's a very small thing. So, particularly if you have a jaw that doesn't sit very far, if you don't have a big, unfortunately like my jaw comes back and shuts off my airway and I'm the victim. It's like someone's smothering me in the night so that that causes snoring, but also, um, it can totally block my away and wake me up. So, um, yeah. So I ended up measuring a lot of sleep and I looked into measuring sleep. I did that for looking at every device under the sun. And um, I tend to use this one here called a night shift. Okay.

Speaker 3: (42:19)
See on the picture there, you can actually put it around your neck. That's the idea. And that's a medical grade. Um, sleep, sleep measuring device without people going into a sleep lab, it's the best, um, the best device you use. And so here we go. You just pop it off you go. And basically what I ended up doing is measuring my own sleep, then hundreds of people after that. Then teaching lots of people how to do that and how to analyze that and figure out what's going on with people's sleep. We can we get those, you know, it's a medical one, so not easy to get by because not everybody wants a full blown stuff.

Speaker 3: (43:01)
So what we actually do with my guys and holistic movement coaches that I train, they're actually trained to actually, we actually hire them out. We get people to actually click the data, they send them back to us, and then we actually take them through what the data means. So, wow. Yeah. You've got your watches that you can wear, which you know, which can give you some sleep sleep. That's called actigraphy. And the idea is you put your watch on your wrist. When you move your wrist, it means you're awake. When you're, you're not moving, you're asleep. That's probably a little bit too simplistic. That's kind of looking at, you know, looking at the Speedo and your car saying, okay, that's how my car is running. There's a lot more going on on the surface. Just that one reading. So, yeah. What a, what a, what a sleep study does.

Speaker 3: (43:45)
And what they do in a sleep lab is I'll put, um, that leads onto your head looking at your brain activity. They'll look at your breathing, they'll look at your heart rate, they'll look at movement. So the movement, the actigraphy, Pat's only one small part of it. So what a, what a night shift does is it actually attaches around your neck because if you're moving your, your neck device on the back of your neck, you're awake. So it's much more accurate for a staff, but it also measures snoring as well. So snoring, volume and also any position you're in. So what I found is when I'm lying on my back, well that's the time we, my airway is mostly when I'm laying on my side, it's not so bad. So, um, and there's also a sitting on there where you can actually get it to buzz you when you're on your back so you can use it to retrain sleep on your side, which is what I did.

Speaker 2: (44:33)
Wow. Okay. So, uh, I'll be really interested. Maybe we can talk afterwards where we are, uh, get work. Cause like, um, I've got Jesus as a friend and so on. Um, but convincing your father or your husband to go and have a full on sleep study is one thing and they won't.

Speaker 3: (44:52)
That's what we found as well. So if I'm going to measure something, if I'm going to do something, I want to do it the best I can and certainly, and look, the aura ring is also pretty good at getting orders on your hands. So you move your hand around, kind of give you some misleading data there. The night shift is the most accurate way I've found of measuring sleep in the home. That's great because if you want to change sleep, I mean measure it so you can measure it to manage it. There's also some questionnaires which I'd really recommend and we get our guys to fill those in as well because we want to kind of find out how they're feeling as well and also getting an idea of their sleep habits, but there's no lying. The amount of data that comes out of that is incredible. I've had some people really change their sleep habits around once they see what's going on.

Speaker 2: (45:38)
Oh gosh. Yeah. When you put them under the data, cause everyone's like, ah, I'm okay. But I was like, you know, and I probably shouldn't say as well as, you know, listen to my husband sleep the other day and he like, he stopped breathing for like three minutes. I got the, I actually got the thing out and I timed and I was like, Holy crap, he's not, you know, and then he would go back onto his side and then he would, you know, do that. And I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 3: (46:01)
Oh,

Speaker 2: (46:02)
and he's not overweight and he's fit and the next, you know, like he's, he's like, okay, how can I have a problem, you know? Um, so I'll talk to you after this thing, but can people virtually contact you in, in, in, um, do that or is it has to be an in person thing?

Speaker 3: (46:17)
No, we do that remotely. So the idea is, you know, you don't have to come and sit in the lab and get hooked up with a hundred leads around your hand. We send it out, you wear it. We get a couple of nights data to make sure we've got a reasonable, we want a reasonable, um, if there's such thing as an average night's sleep, you have some questionnaires as well. You send that back to us, we get all the data off it and then we remotely, we take you through and go, okay, here's what's happening with your sleep here and here's some of the patterns you've got. And just like you'd have a training program for your running. We have one for sleep as well, so you can get your sleep more on track. I'm doing that, I'm getting that for the family,

Speaker 2: (46:54)
you know, like, um, the reason I had sleep apnea and GS on last week was because it saved my mom's life. It's that important. You know, when you have a stroke, especially, you need to get a proper full Braun, you know, sleep tests done. If you've had a brain injury. It's, this is something that's really, really under no, and it's just not knowing that this is a problem, uh, in the general medical world. Um, and I'm like, that's why like I do not believe my mum would be alive if I had not gotten a sleep apnea machine and got a C pet machine. That was the first step.

Speaker 3: (47:27)
I think there's a lot of really good that goes on in sleep and particularly around the brain. So you know, there's a lot of prices where they, where you're there, the little cells are going around cleaning up all the debris, they're cleaning out the brain also cleaning out the psyche as well. So if you can optimize sleep there, boy, it make such a big impact on, on people's health and particularly if they've had, um, central nervous system damage. Yes. In fact, that was one of the, when I first put these glasses out, I actually gave a talk, um, to a group of physiotherapists and um, some of them were working civically with concussion and they looked at the stuff and they went, Holy cow, can we try all these? And, and with our patients, I said, yeah, of course you can. And data's got back to me, said, wow, the different sets making is incredible because you know, think about when you get central nervous system damage, it's hard to filter in with all that information that's coming at you. And if you're getting abnormal light signals all the time, particularly at night, um, that's another stress your body has to play with. So often they were getting some great results with people sleeping better, feeling a lot better. Is that key with concussion types, um, and heat injuries, uh, by using blue light blocking glasses.

Speaker 2: (48:40)
Yeah. And this is why we're having this conversation because this is going to go in my new course on brain optimization and longevity because this is a big piece of the puzzle for people who have suffered, whether it's strokes or concussions or, uh, you know, even for people who have vascular problems like dementia or Alzheimer's I think is all foundational health things that we need to be addressing. And those people especially,

Speaker 3: (49:02)
and sleep is the, you know, there's, there's, there's is the foundation of our healing, our self healing. So you get that right. You know that that's, that's money for jam and I'm looking for these fancy things and he's got an inbuilt system. We've got all these inbuilt systems, we just need to use them and tap into them. So what you've got, you've got those sleep cycles, which I'm sure has been covered elsewhere, but you've got your non-REM and your rim sleep. So your REM sleep is when you notice that your eyes were moving a lot. But that's the one where you get your dreams a lot more. So what happens, you get cycles of non-REM and REM sleep throughout your night when when you first go to bed, your non-REM cycles are longer than your rim cycles. But as those no cycles repeat over and over again, as you keep into your sleep, by the time you're getting closer to the morning, you will rim, sleep, other bigger parts of the cycle. Now the non-REM sleep is really important for physical repair. So if you've got, if you've got some, if you've got clients who are ill or have physical illness that's really important, they get to bed early and make the most of those, those in REM cycles. So they need those bigger long cycles at the start because if you go to bed really late, you're going to miss some of those longer, uh, in rim sleep cycles.

Speaker 2: (50:19)
I knew that, but I didn't know why. Like I knew that that was when the physical healing, psychological healing sort of stuff as later on, but I didn't.

Speaker 3: (50:28)
Yeah, that's, that's it. Right? So you've also, if you, if few have got a lot of emotional stress going on and you may have both as well, that's where it's really important to make sure you're not getting up at 4:00 AM in the morning cause you're missing that. You're missing that, that, that, that REM sleep, which helps clean out all those emotions there, the stress you've got going on. Um, and also consolidate a lot of learning processes as well. So both of those cycles are really important. And respecting where you are and which ones you need is a big determinant on probably how you should be kind of using your sleep as well.

Speaker 2: (51:00)
And that's like, um, so short term memory processing would be done in that phase two so that you're actually putting the stuff that you learned yesterday into the filing cabinet, so to speak. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (51:10)
that's right. Tidying it up in the library in a box away

Speaker 2: (51:14)
and the MIS, which is what happens and when we, when we go to sleep, we have this, um, what, what scientists have only recently discovered, from what I understand is that our brain actually shrinks in size and the cerebral spinal fluid comes in and does a brainwash, so to speak, and gets rid of the amyloid plaques. And so we have these beta amyloid plaques, which you may have heard from people who've have Alzheimer's. And one of the, the risk factors for people getting developing Alzheimer's over time, over a long period of time is a poor sleep because they're not washing out these, these speeder amyloid plaques

Speaker 3: (51:51)
disease and inflammatory process. Sleep will have an effect on every single one.

Speaker 2: (51:57)
[inaudible] I, I'm just doing the section in the brain optimization longevity course on uh, information and people do not get the concept. And I didn't for a long time either. And what the hiccup, I may have had this conversation with my mom yesterday cause I teach her all this stuff as I'm learning stuff and she's going, but I'm not inflamed and

Speaker 3: (52:20)
chronic disease. You have inflammation and I see

Speaker 2: (52:22)
you don't feel this type of information, man. This is on the inside. This is the endothelial linings of your vessels. This is from the brain injury, the mixing of the blood in the brain and causing inflammation. You don't feel that. It's not like, cause we all often think that our information, Oh that's when I've cut my hand and I've got that red thing around the cat. That's information. Now that is information too. But that's not the type of information we're talking about. And we're talking about systemic inflammation and there are so many aspects to lowering inflammation in their body. And sleep is a big piece of that puzzle. As with just heard and the right nutrition for your body, the right amount of exercise for your body at the right times. And all these things can help lower the inflammation levels and our systems and information is the cause of so many degenerative diseases, which are our biggest killers.

Speaker 2: (53:17)
You know, heart attacks or heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's cancers, even all of these have their root, one of their main things is in the inflammation process is going on the body. So if we can allow our inflammation, if we can look after our mitochondria, which has a little battery packs in the hour, each one of ourselves and help them produce more energy efficiently and not, you know, doing new, taking the DNA and things like that because of the inflammation, because of the free radicals and so on. Um, and you know, this is a topic for another 10 sessions, but that then we have foundational health and then we can do and be a lot more for a longer period of time. You know, and, and this is, it's all, it's also interconnected. So having the right sleep and wearing your blue blocking glasses and doing all these little bits and pieces will add up to longterm health.

Speaker 2: (54:14)
Do you agree? Brilliant. What a great summary of health. You went right from cellular health, right through to inflammation. That's a really great summary. If you've been doing your homework for this stuff, you know, and I just wish I had more brain power and I'm, you know, I'm well to optimize my brainpower to put more in, you know, so that you can understand more so that you can help more and the more you get into this world. And I mean, you know, that was just a very, um, you know, simplistic overview of, of things. Uh, and we have so complex and there's so many other things to learn, you know, immune systems and you know, God knows what, um, but it's all pieces of the puzzle. And I think when we have the attitude, I'm going to learn about my, and my health and what happens in my body because we spend ages, I don't get this, but we will spend ages planning our next holiday.

Speaker 2: (55:07)
What car are we going to buy and all the details of it. And we won't spend the time to actually look at what's going on in our, in our health and our body because we've outsourced that to the doctor. And I just think that that is the biggest disaster that we can do for ourselves. We can't outsource our health to any one person. We have to take ownership of our health and we have to be vigilant if we want to live long, healthy lives. If we don't, you see the consequences, you know? And unfortunately with, uh, you know, quite a few of the people that I get to work with her at the bottom of the cliff already, you know, trying to save them at a stage where it's already, the train's already left the station really desperately trying to get them back in. Sometimes you do, you know, but gosh, it'd be a hell of a lot easier if you're working with people at the top of the class before they fall off, which is what you're doing and what a wonderful rent. Oh, I'm proud of it. That's so good. I'm good at renting. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (56:11)
Wow, that's fantastic. Oh, we could, we could probably get on a soap box and um, but we're passionate about this because it affects people's lives. It affects people's, you know, your people losing loved ones. People, you know, having horrific, you know, the last 20 years of your life is absolute crap because they've slowly degenerating in them. They've lifted the health in the hands of doctors. And this is not an indictment on doctors don't get me wrong, but they have a, you know, a specific way of thinking. They have a certain amount of time to spend with them. They're under resourced, they're under, you know, they're overworked. I've got 10 minutes with you. How the hell are they going to get to the beds about disease too? It's not about health. We're about health, which is, we're about health side of the coin. We're on the functional side of the equation, meaning the, Oh, I say you get hit by a car. You don't want me standing over you going, how was you sleep last night? Well, you should be wearing these glasses. In fact, you shouldn't be wearing those glasses if it's not.

Speaker 2: (57:14)
Certainly, um, you know, that's, that's what it's about. And you know, that's amazing the job that they've done it, I'm sure that you've experienced some amazing, Oh gosh, yes. I'm wouldn't be alive either without, you know, without the surgeries and the incredible surgeons that there are in acute trauma. We don't know. No argument, no argument. We need the other side. We look at the health to stop people getting into their state is what? Well, so if we can respect a respect and go use the best of all those worlds, that'd be great. Yeah, exactly. Let's have their end that it's not an either or situation. It's an end. It's an end situation. They thank you so much for your time today. You've been absolutely so generous and I know you do so much in the, in the world and you're giving and teaching and so many trainers that I, you know, have the pleasure of meeting along the way.

Speaker 2: (58:05)
Just everybody is one of your students that seems to have some of the best ones, the best ones where you attract good people. So some of those ones that are around you. So I'm really pleased to hear that. Yeah. And I can't wait to do more within the future and to get to hopefully some of your courses as well cause I certainly want to learn more. Um, and I love, I love networking with such amazing positive people. Dave, any last word. So people go to H M hyphen coach.com. Grab the glasses. We're going to get them up on our site too. If we can. Um, the sleep stuff, they can reach out to you just via the website or is it, can they follow you on social as well as we'll pop something on your show notes about that and let's get, let's get you involved in that as well so you can experience it and see how that works as well.

Speaker 2: (58:54)
I'm very keen learning about your sleeping and what's going on there is, you know, measure it to manage it. That's the old saying. And um, yeah, this is an important thing to measure and manage, particularly if you know that maybe there's some, some room for you to grow in that area. It's definitely, and certainly for my, the male counterparts in my family who will not listen otherwise. Let's put the numbers in front of them. Exactly. And then they might, they might go, Ooh. Okay. So thank you very much Dave, for your time today on over on the sunshine coast. We wish you well over there and yeah, we'll see you again soon. If after listening to this podcast, you'd like to grab a really great quality pier of blue light blocking glasses from David. You can use the code Lisa at checkout HM-coach.com. That's hm-coach.com. Use the code coupon code Lisa at checkout and get a discount off your,

Speaker 1: (59:50)
yeah, that's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Te Whatarangi Dixon is a man with much "Mana' (The Maori word that means to have great authority, presence to command respect).

Despite his relative youth at age just 30 he has twice already stared his own mortality in the face.

He was the victim of Guellain Barre Syndrome or GBS for short. Guillain-Barre ) syndrome is a rare disorder in which your body's immune system attacks your nerves. Weakness and tingling in your extremities are usually the first symptoms.

These sensations can quickly spread, eventually paralysing your whole body. In its most severe form Guillain-Barre syndrome is a medical emergency and in this case is what severe and meant Te Whatarangi was months in hospital.

The exact cause of Guillain-Barre syndrome is unknown. But two-thirds of patients report symptoms of an infection in the six weeks preceding. These include respiratory or a gastrointestinal infection or Zika virus.

Te Whatarangi lost all control over his body and literally watched his body fail and start to die while his brain remained fully conscious. The fear, the uncertainty, not knowing if he would live or die or if he lived if he would ever have any quality of life again or be trapped in a body that no longer worked sent Te Whatarangi through a long night of the soul. But he eventually emerged. Stronger, more resilient, more empathetic and more driven that ever before.

This is a comeback story of survival and of love. The importance of family and how they helped him through.

Te Whatarangi is now a qualified neuro-physio and knows exactly what his patients and clients are going through. He knows the battles they face and he guides them back on the path to their goals.

Heartwarming and raw this interview will inspire you and make you grateful for the blessings you have.

Te Whatarangi's greeting to you all in Maori

Ko Putauaki te māunga

Ko Rangitaiki te awa

Ko Mataatua te waka

Ko Ngāti Awa tōku iwi

Ko Te Pahipoto tōku hapū

Ko Wayne Haeata tōku matua

Ko Kay Mereana tōku whaea

Ko Blair Te Whatarangi Dixon ahau

I have come from very humble beginnings. I am a product of my whānau (family) and I would not be the man I am today without them supporting me every step of the way. Everything that I am and everything that I strive to be is a reflection of not only myself but my whānau. I represent them and I hope to make them just as proud as I am of them. I was diagnosed with Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) in 2014 and again in 2019 where only 1 in 100'000 people are diagnosed globally with a 1% chance of contracting it twice. Always an optimist and through my journey of self-discovery having faced the possibility of my own mortality, I am now proud to call myself a Neurophysiotherapist. My journey has been challenging yet unique and I wish to share my story with the world in the hope others feel inspired and to allow their light to shine.

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"
Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:
When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.
This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.
Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.
This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
You're listening to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati. Today I have a guest to Te Whatarangi Dixon from Rotorua who is an amazing young man. He's a neurophysio something I'm very interested in. But he is also a victim of the Guellain Barre Syndrome. Very hard to say. We'll call it GBS. Now this is a syndrome that's a rare disorder in which the body's immune system, attacks your nerves, weakness and tingling in the extremities are usually the first sort of symptoms and the spread right throughout his body and it can be fatal. And he was certainly in deep die trouble for many weeks in the hospital and he shares his story today and his comeback journey. It's a really interesting, I'm very interested in people who have overcome the odds in comeback. Journeys for obvious reasons. And I think this journey just really that fax has been on is incredible and why he's tackled it in the way he's coped with it.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
He was then gone on because of this to become a neurophysio. So he's used what was a terrible thing in his life to do something good. So it was a real honor to have him on the show. I just want to remind you before we go over and talk to te there, my book is now available on audio. It's available on ebook, on Amazon on my website every which way you can get it now. Relentless. It's also in the bookshops. I had the greatest pleasure the other day when I walked finally into a shop and there was my book. So that was a pretty exciting moment. After seven weeks on lockdown, it's finally out there. So if you're interested in getting that, the book is called relentless and you can grab it on my book, my website at lisatamati.com Right now over the to the show with Te Whatarangi Dixon.

Speaker 1: (01:54)
Them.

Speaker 3: (01:57)
Well, hi everyone. Welcome back to the sharp pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again. I am sitting with Te Whatarangi Dixon all the way over in the Rotorua. How are you doing mate? Good, thank you. Good. Thank you. Super excited to have you on the show. It's really cool. We've connected through your father in law who is a lovely man, Steven who I spoke for. He is a great man. He is a lovely man. And he just said, you've got to talk to my son in law. He's so interesting and I thought, yes, he is very interesting and I want him on my show. So today I was going to hear a little bit about Whatarangi and we're going to call them facts from here on. And and now Whatarangi is a equally a neurophysio. You're just just qualifying right now, sort of in the midst of finishing things up and getting him into a new career and job.

Speaker 3: (02:49)
But the reason, one of the reasons I want, I want to talk to you about that, but I also want to talk to you about you've got an inspiring comeback story. Can you tell us a little bit about GBS we, we you've had GBS twice and we're trying to pronounce it before Guellain Barre Syndrome, something like that. So yeah, it's a very big word. So we'll call it GBS and can you explain what that is and your, your journey with us a little bit and a little bit who you are for status.

Speaker 4: (03:22)
Yep. Okay. So my story basically starts from a little town called tickle. So that's where I'm actually from and my family is, and I grew up pretty much in the Bay. TNT. I think probably people will always think that my story is interesting is because Guellain Barre Syndrome or GBS as we call it is as 100, a hundred thousand people, I think contracted, well that's the neurological condition. And then basically a textual, your peripheral nervous system. So it's quite similar. That's how I kind of describe it to people. I'm totally on the stand that getting into the technical kind of tends of things is similar to that. You miss you miss the textural central nervous system either and GBS a textual peripheral nervous system. Wow. Cause people get what that is so they can proceed. It's kind of similar but there are differences.

Speaker 4: (04:20)
So I had a strength called ampersand, which is what's a text basically or your motor neurons. Annual sensory neurons. You can have different trends with the tech, just primarily your motor neurons or your sensory or I think he got five different Sharon's, I'm not, can't remember specifically about each one, but yeah, those two. Yeah. I had em send, so I took an attack my motor neurons in my, in my sensory neurons. But the potential for it to recover as higher because you have a special cell called Schwann cells in your peripheral nervous system and they can regenerate over time. So that's why if you have, if I wouldn't wish it upon anybody, but basically if you had GBS your what your and you and you were able to stop it from progressing, quite possibly, even people have, it can't be fatal.

Speaker 4: (05:11)
But if you at the interventions from the hospital placed on you I think within three to four weeks until you sat on told JPA starts to kind of overtake your body, you'll be lucky to recovering this quite high but post four weeks and you haven't had an intervention with they call it immunoglobulin therapy or plasma faceless where they basically take our, your white blood cells and replace it with others. Wow. so basically you'll be your pasta, your, your ability to recover. That's a lot higher with your peripheral nervous system because your central nervous system are made out of oligodendrocytes and that's what they make up are once they damage, they don't rip you. Wow. So if you about a motorway system, once you've got an issue major, such a major highway, so one roads basically destroyed, it'll never be recovered.

Speaker 4: (06:05)
You'll be able to actually try and tap into other areas and go off road and then come back on, wow, I want to kind of destroy their part of the road and we'll never recover. Whereas Guellain Barren Syndrom, once that Schwann cell is basically damaged, if they're forced to before the damage, its ability to, to re regenerate as higher Scwh is in. This isn't the bird Swan. Swan. So S C W H. Okay. So that's a german. SCWH. Okay. So how does it manifest itself in your body? So you've got the, luckily not the central nervous system one, but more of the peripheral. How did that sort of manifest and what were the symptoms? Okay, so for me in 2014 mindset of half the thing is they don't actually fully understand why it HIPAA or like what actually causes causes a bacteria virus.

Speaker 4: (07:09)
We don't yet, but they understand what happens to once it starts. What's a, what's a begins to happen. So for me how they described the words, I, I basically called a guarantee Stein bug basically a month before GBS kind of started to could have been related. I go to my body, yes. So what they, what they perceive as what happens, it's an auto immune disease. So I had discussion or anti Stein nonfiction and I recovered from that. But however, what happened is you obviously when you get sick, you build up your immune cell or your immune system starts to kick in and you build get your killer T cells and then eventually you'll have resistant T-cells to action to buy down the killer T cells. Cause they've already destroyed the bug. Yep. What's happened is in my immune system, my resistant T cells to to actually hinder and stop the killer T cells from producing and actually start to generate around the body, they don't actually start to kick in.

Speaker 4: (08:12)
So your immune system had all these killer T cells floating around. And then I think obviously then I just got another random cold bug about a month later. And because you had these killer cells, so floating around in my body, I'm talking kind of later and I used to help you find fully understand it's important. Yeah. And so basically what's happened is my immune cell, my immune system has decided to, they've got this new bug, these qualities are the floating around. I have no idea what to do with this new bug and all of a sudden have started to just manipulate itself and then attach in a tech my, my peripheral nervous system. So phone cells instead of that classic auto immune shoot all the goodies and the baddies at the same time. Yeah. So it spawns my, my immune system starts to attack my own body.

Speaker 4: (09:03)
Yep. Essentially. Yeah. And so you don't, you don't know whether it's coming from there you know, that that gastrointestinal thing or not, but quite likely that that's caused that caused this reaction in the body. Obviously when you, when you're sick, obviously you get increased inflammation, which means that increases your immune system. And so it just, just helps you like a, like a, like as if you're standing in front of her train. And so basically how mine started was I just started getting pins and needles and my peripheral, like basically in my hands and my feet. Yeah. And it slowly kind of, I started basically just getting pins and needles and it started gradually kind of coming out of my arm of my legs. And then I started losing sets on my sensory kind of went, went away first. So SABIC losing sensation.

Speaker 4: (09:54)
And then basically as it came up through my, through my feet and into my ankles, we have a thing called proprioception. And they basically tell us it helps you understand its joints on the stand we are in relation to space. And that's that it's to dissipate and actually kind of disappear for me. So I started losing balance. It wasn't anything wrong with my brain, it's just that I couldn't get the right signals from my feet and from the white bearings, my weight bearing joints to my brain to understand and tell my body where I was. I had that with mum, but from a brain injury. Yeah. And so she didn't know who she was away. She stopped the way the world started. Special awareness because it's very hard to explain. Yeah. So this all just started happening. I don't know why, what's happening?

Speaker 4: (10:43)
You just kind of just randomly came on. So I started losing sensation and eventually started losing weakness in my hands. My jaw. I just knew something was wrong. I went to the doctors. The first time when I started getting pins and needles actually seeping into a physio, like some form of nerve issue of my lower back or, or something. Cause at the time I had, I had an injury, I'm a little bit. Yep. So say me, the basically nothing happened. A week later it started getting worse. Went back to my GP. He doesn't know, he didn't know what was happening. Obviously we could have the GP and had, you know, had I had signs of symptoms, they kind of live on possibly being meningitis as well. Yeah. He's sent me into, he see me in hospital, showed away basically after their next visit.

Speaker 4: (11:31)
So this was two weeks after that sort of started happening. A huge and obviously because he sent me diagnosed me possibly with a hypothesis of possible, possibly meningitis. I was treated for meningitis when I got there. By winter it wasn't, it wasn't I went and had my spinal taps. Yeah, spinal tap generally for meningitis in GBS cause they do present quite similar if they, if they think so. They're trying to cross the cross all the T's. We then, and then as they actually, when I went into hospital, I started getting huge migraines. I was getting migraines and I was skinning photophobia. So I've kind of actually optimized the life would just penetrate and just give me huge headaches. So I, when I was presenting what's, you know, and that's even another sign of possibly being in Jarvis and migraines. I, however, I didn't have a rash. That was, I need public one real, something they usually would get from in a data cell. We then had my spinal tap done, went for a CT scan. And then I was isolated basically because if I'm in a ditis spread it out at this point they still didn't know what I actually had. They were just going on. You know, the signs and symptoms on me, possibly heavy meningitis skins fascination and hits the spinal tap, then CT scan.

Speaker 3: (12:55)
Yep. Carry on. Mum's bringing in the middle of the webcast. She always does. Everybody who listens to the podcast knows this is a key ring from Mark to carry on mate.

Speaker 4: (13:08)
Yeah. And then and then I'll, then they for a week nothing basically improved. So all the all the drugs that they go to me throughout the time to help me try and beat meningitis were working. I was getting worse and I started losing what I'd done in relevance to that. I was actually getting really weak, but I couldn't actually convey that to them because I started getting, you know, I started losing my, my, I couldn't breathe and I started, I get to be on a ventilation also just so much pain. So I started getting hyper sensitivity. So basically cold felt like hot hot, felt like cold, a polo felt like a waste of time. I felt like I was driving into into the beat. So when I was just lying on the bed, I felt like I was getting pulled down by gravity. So [inaudible] rotation or anything kind of going out of whack, you everything just becomes imbalanced and it might, your brain can not understand or what, and it's trying to rebalance itself. And in that process that's kind of having, it's actually being detrimental to your, to your ability to kind of actually understanding the world just cause everything. Like basically if you'll need to bombard your nurse to actually understand, you know touch smells like every foot of sensation that you can basically think of.

Speaker 3: (14:27)
We had for granted so much and we know that this is, yeah, something's touching my right hand or I'm feeling my left hand or,

Speaker 4: (14:35)
And then basically third weekend I had an MRI and then the neurologist was actually away at the time. So the neurologist said that was actually from the house and told him the hospital for us. He was a white, you ever sees on a, on a spent sabbatical at another hospital. And so the neurologist from Palm smelt was coming up two or three times a week. Yep. So he came up and he basically once they won't say best, so he thought busters, a meningitis B bike. And I started and I had an Ida, my sister in law, she found a possible link to being something more neurological because I had this window of opportunity. We actually felt, you know, everything kind of normal, a little bit full for a time. And I asked Glen to kind of do some, do some assistance on me, who's my sister in law.

Speaker 4: (15:25)
She's now registered, now open a hospital. Wow. and she just chose a fifth year medical student at the time and she just done some systems on me and she felt my reflex is going through. I couldn't, my sensation was, was basically gone and she just went straight to straight to my consultant. My consultant got the neurologist to come in and they're all just basically look there, make straight away any new show way that ITVS basically Australian. I went straight into HDU. I was throwing spirometry, so I actually checked around my lung capacity was gone of the migraines. They organized for me to go for an MRI just to see what type of thing my body information was. And all of my, you know, all of my CRP scans, we were just through the roof. White blood cell counts were through the roof. So they knew that your, your menu system, but they couldn't, they didn't know what was happening on it. And obviously people, it's so rare you know, you, you come across that every, I don't know, once or twice in your lifetime.

Speaker 4: (16:33)
Okay. So now you're, you're in the, the finally worked out does it, is this thing. Yep. What sort of a battle did you have on your hands then? I was in the battle. Basically, they're trying to save my life. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So my, my, basically my, my lungs started to shut down. I immediately went down to about 50% capacity. As soon as I went into HDU I was intubated with mechanical ventilation to the full Monte, so conscious, so my brain's still, they're not just getting migraines. Stuff's like, it's still kind of occupational life. Nothing's happening mentally. It's all just the, my physical body shutting down. I can't move. I started all like, basically I lost all control of my bowels and whatnot as well. So there was things we didn't see wise. It was just, it just, everything went away.

Speaker 4: (17:29)
So like a massive brain damage. Yeah, something's happened to the brain, but it's just a little bit, it's just my, my peripheral nervous system is shutting down. So I was 23. Wow. I was 20. It started 2014 and yeah, so that, that all happened aren't you baited? And they basically, they started me on what they call immunoglobulin therapy, which is basically other people's antibodies. So, and that's about $1,500 a bottle. And I had about, I don't know, I think it was a call center of over five days, three bottles a day. Sorry, I'm trying to overpower it with, with normal white blood cells. Yeah. So basically trying to combat my immune system so they're pumping and you know what white blood cells from other, basically it's basically a blood transfusion into my body to basically, it can't stop DBS, it can only spoke.

Speaker 4: (18:41)
So the progress of it. So like I said before, you know, these, they're four week kind of if their month window that month window to try and stop it to get possibly from being a fatal condition. So I was in the third week, halfway through the three weeks, so they just water them. And you know, I already got to the stage where basically I was a vegetable and basically I was just trying to save my life. So I was intubated, heading immunoglobulin, stuck to a wall hours days. And I was in the hospital for about three months in ICU for about a month and a half. And then I went up to just the general ward. So it was amazing. So once they open up here, but it's just a waiting game, you can't really, you can't do much, they can do something else.

Speaker 4: (19:30)
You can do. You just watch you just hoping that, you know, me being a young kind of 24 year old at the time, it was going to kind of, that was going to be in a box, which to me, thankfully it was. It was. Yeah. And that's very grateful. Someone under the age of basically 50, 40, 50 to get genius. Wow. cause you, have, you got, you know, I, I love diving into the body. Do you think you have a predisposition to immune and overreactive immune system? Have you even thought about functional genomics and doing some testing along that lines to see? Well, you know, I've always thought that I'd always thought about looking at basically my DNA cause but you know, when I look at my, look at my look at my family, but I look at my family history, I've got none of that in my family. No kind of history of a neurological emission. We've got you know, quite a, the only thing we probably have in my family is the Alzheimer's cancer in our family. We don't have you know, you know, really what do you call it? Systemic kind of conditions, you know, mommy and my family have died of heart attacks. I think one. Yeah. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (20:50)
We've got type two diabetes, but that's not genetic. That's just, you know, your modifiable risk factors that you can change. Well there is genetic fathers did it as well. Yeah. But it would be interesting. I mean I'm just fascinated by functional genomics and looking at understanding of why your immune system would kick into overdrive and actually cause an S is this likely to happen again? Not GBS. Well, we'll get to that in a minute, but you know, for other immune responses now here on land. Yeah, I'll definitely be interested in looking at research that we can. When I'm working with the DNA company and I've had dr mincer on the say they've just opened their labs up again and it'll be a few months before I'm qualified. But I can definitely connect you this if you want to have a look at that just to, I mean it's, I think it's something that everybody should do once in their life anyway.

Speaker 3: (21:49)
Yeah, it's fantastic, Dan. The stain, it can definitely help you plan and prepare for your future. Not stupidly, but just preparation was, you know, you'll tell him to stay on what's happened. Like what could possibly happen for you and what, you know, change it while you can change in regards to modifying your lifestyle to be able to enjoy, enjoy your, you know, your quality of life to the full extent. And even like things like, and this is getting a bit off topic, but you know what medications you might interact with in a, in a bad way or you know what your detox pathways are like. So do you need to be super vigilant when it comes to outside toxins, that type of thing or your hormone pathways or everything like that is involved at, so it's pretty, pretty, pretty good information to have. It's like, I reckon it should be like passport.

Speaker 3: (22:43)
So you have it, you know, and then you take the interventions to stop problems. But back, back to give a story. So you, you, you're fighting for your life now in your, you've, you've gotten through that really bad, horrific stage. How were you mentally coping with us as a 23 year old when you started to come back to life, if you like what you've been through, this traumatic, horrific experience. Have you dealt with that? You know, I've probably, I'm a very optimistic person, just like as a put my personality. I have a very optimistic look and I'm just in life in general. It was really tough. So at the challenge me a lot I wish I knew my wife, that's, it would've been easier, definitely been easier. You know, just being, you're being 23 and I'm very much a mum mama's boy. Yeah, absolutely. Nothing wrong with that. And my mum at the time

Speaker 4: (23:47)
You know, after raising my brother, my sister and I her entire life as a single mother. Wow. yeah, it's off to half. Yeah. I have a lot of, a lot of things in life. She was in Spain, so she decided, you know, how all of us, we're all growing up, we're living our lives. We started our new careers and, you know, looking, you know, what's going on in our own adult lives. If you took this opportunity, you know, to actually just enjoy this and go off on another Valium sabbatical for six, seven months over in Spain, lift my lift, my stepdad, he just say, I'm going to Spain. I'm going to go off and have all that. And she was basically two months in over there, and then they'll say, great. Trip as well. You know, I tried to, we rang basically nearly ever tried to ring every night through Oh, he used to be called Viber, you know, the original kind of. Yep. I guess. And you know, I basically said to every single time, as hard as it was to me, just to say on the phone was, you know, I said, I kept on saying to mum, don't come back. I'm going to beat this. And I'm not gonna pray, I'm not going to buy as much as I probably cried a lot of the time thinking that I was going to die.

Speaker 4: (25:17)
Yeah. To face your own mortality though, I mean ridiculously young age you know, like how do you see that now? What's your relationship with it now? I mean it's a pretty hard thing to buddy. Others that's I think I look at it more is I don't ever look at it as a, it's a fear concept. I probably look at it as a, as an opportunity to kind of, like I said, like before we even started a podcast, that's just an opportunity to actually still learn. Even though, even though I was going through this, I was like knocking it, if I get through this, what am I going to learn from this? So that's how I actually probably got me through. A lot of it was, you know, I'm not going to let this beat me, so what can I do with my life if I, you know, not if I was going to, it's like I was spicy.

Speaker 4: (26:06)
I was trying to tell myself that I wasn't going to, but you know, facing, facing that possible. Yeah, it was either I have my down moments. You know, you sometimes you're probably just thinking about wanting just to give up because it was just so that was quite hard and you know, seeing my family and my family and my family just probably, which has definitely been, you know, my Maori being from a Maori family, my and my mum overseas, I'd always had someone next to me. So yeah, my aunties, my uncles, my brothers, my sisters, my Dad, they all kind of took their time out of their days to kind of one at a time, go on a roster and just be there 24, seven basically, isn't it? It's so important to have that support. Yeah. And you know, like I'm a big, I'm a very holistic kind of person. Then before MALDI back home we have a thing called all, you know, like mother that can be, and so basically in anything, so a person, an object or you know, any inanimate kind of thing. But by them being there, they actually predicting them announcing me, if that makes sense. Absolutely makes sense. You know, if I didn't have them, I don't know if I'd even be here. Being beside your loved ones and having walking with them and their dark times is just so, so, so crucial. Like very family orientated person. So yeah.

Speaker 4: (27:36)
And you got a good one. I didn't have them beside me. I don't think I definitely would not have probably made it on my own. Because they were actually my thyroid, my motivation to actually fight and fight cause you need to fight, you need to fight when you're in deep, deep trouble and to find that fight when you're in pain and in, in terror and fear and all the rest of it. And the reason probably why I say I would show my wife at the time was because she's actually given me that strength and power to actually on the same or separate afflictions. Yes. I never actually fully understood it and she comprehended it. So I was obviously me being a 20 young, 23, all these just think of the physical aspects of life. And I never really considered, you know, how impactful the mental side of things, the emotional side of things and the spiritual side of things.

Speaker 4: (28:25)
But it's actually, she really helped me also is actually trying to understand who I am, what my identity is. Wow. I shocked. Cause if I had that back then as well, you know, I definitely would. Mmm. Fully understand and actually I would have been a hell of a lot better position to actually get full without ever even thinking or considering those kinds of things I would consider and think about them, but I wouldn't have, I wouldn't, you know, consume me. Yup. Yup. If they make sense. So I'm a big believer in if you have a strong, I didn't say even cultural identity, if you understand who you are, yeah. It gets you through. So, and that's, you know, being honest to yourself, being yeah, even on the others. And just taking them one step at a time, you know, it's not going to, you need to fully appreciate it.

Speaker 4: (29:17)
I understand that sometimes you do need that time to just kind of look at yourself and understand who you are. Cause if we don't, then you struggle. So this has brought you wisdom beyond your years really, isn't it? Yeah. So, okay, so, so you, you were in the rehab now for over a year trying to come from this thing and what was that better like? Like was it like coming back from a stroke or a brain injury? Was it like that now? Yeah, so basically it was really weird. So for me, I actually quite enjoyed it, but obviously obviously food through. I, I enjoyed the rehab, but the time that I was in the hospital, that was the tough part. So yeah, it wasn't until I probably got past it every elevation there point where I knew I wasn't going to buy. Yeah. Basically once they, once their fear of my own mortality here to pass, I was, you know, basically they basically told me, I was like, I've been in it and now all I have to do is put the work in. Yep. So be able to give myself from where I am right now, being dependent and now becoming, you know, my independent self again. Wow. I'm still alive so I'm stoked.

Speaker 4: (30:39)
I'm going to fight like crazy to get better. So I'd never looked at it as being, you know, I never looked at myself as being disabled ever. Maybe sometimes I maybe shouldn't because I know I probably pushed a lot of stress and, and you know I'm on my family when I was going through it there first time cause I, you know, obviously I think we forgot to mention them. I got this last year as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what we've got to get to yet. So, yeah. So that, you know, I wish I probably was able to be honest. If I say, you know, on, on basically my family going through a lifetime because I know how stressful it was for them to kind of see me in that position and all they wanted to do was just help me and all in all I would do was just kind of internalize it and just keep it to myself and say, no, I almost went homeless and do it myself.

Speaker 4: (31:36)
Right. But, you know, that was a very selfish thing. Like when I look back on it, it's a very selfish approach that I had on it, even though I know they called me it. But that's because I was only ever thinking about the physical side of things still because you were young and I was young and you know, for me, being a 23 year old, you know, the physical side of life, very, very important. And being a man, you know, you messed the and he gets challenged and it was very, very hard to kind of get through that without ever feeling like I was burdening my family. So, you know, and that way when I look at it now, I, that was the wrong approach. But yeah, so basically once I got past, they pointed at this past the point that I wasn't going to be, that wasn't going to die. I was in hospital until basically I was my, I wasn't head. I took out the mechanical ventilation and I started doing some form of physiotherapy in the hospital and then they had organized me to go to a festival or a Ferguson. I know I

Speaker 3: (32:40)
Tried to get mum in there, couldn't get her and sorry.

Speaker 4: (32:43)
I got, I don't know where I got my funding from yeah since I was three months in hospital. And my rehab basically consisted of a lot of it was orientated around my goals and what I wanted to reach back to. However, when I read what I really enjoyed about lower foods, and it's basically like a campus that's a rehabilitation campus and it's for people that are under the age of 60. So it's not a, it's not a retirement village. It's actually for people that are, wants a big goal, be there long term. They had some of them who have long term conditions and took some of them terminal to a certain extent, but they're all there for the purpose of what's in there. Try and get better.

Speaker 3: (33:29)
Love that. I love that. Yeah. I did try to get my mum in there. She was too old to get there and we couldn't get funding and so on. But it did feel like a place where you were going to actually do something because I must say you're a neurophysio now, so we'll get to that shortly. But I must say the physio care that we had in the hospital was nothing short of atrocious. Yeah. I could have done it in my sleep. I think they went, they'd eat the lunch. That's pretty harsh. But that's, that's how I felt.

Speaker 4: (34:02)
And it's, it's really hard when I think about that because they are quite restricted in a lot of what they can provide. You know, me being like going through placements in one note as well in the hospitals, they all want to change how they approach things on the hospitals. That's why they're trying to implement, you know, code rehabilitation, gems and whatnot there as well to get more involved. But at the same time it's really tough because systems at the system is built around, you know, you've got so many patients that you have to see on a ward and you've got what, 10, 2030, 30 minutes at the met with them.

Speaker 3: (34:41)
I must say I must, I must re repair what I just said. The ones that were came round to us on the ward during the acute phase were lovely. Awesome. Yeah. When we were later put into the rehab with mum I fought to get her back into the system to get, you know, cause they said at the beginning she's never going to do anything again. We're not going to bother basically. And I fought and after a year I got her back in for two times a week and there was atrocious. And I felt like a box ticking exercise. The ones on the ward were different. They were very passionate and really, really wanting to help. So in, and this is no indictment on any one person or thing, but there was a systemic problem and there is a systemic problem with the way that the, the things are run at least an hour, the, our hospital and the way that you are judged, I remember and don't want to take her out for the interview, but six weeks she had as a block of two times a week.

Speaker 3: (35:43)
And honestly what she would do in that six weeks I would have done in a day with her. The tests that they tried to put her through, she was intimidated. She felt like a school girl, so she was not interacting with them. Because they were very judging her all the time, whether she should continue in the program. And at the very end of the program, they had a big panel where they all came in to decide your fate, whether you'd be considered to continue in the program. And they, they talked to me not to hear who's sitting next to them and says she's below the level of the worst dementia patient we've ever seen. You know, she's never going to do anything and this is a waste of time. And I turned to my mom and I said, well how does that make you feel mum?

Speaker 3: (36:28)
And she said, you know, well I was feeling quite empowered until I came in here. Now I feel totally, you know, down before. And they just looked at me and then jaws drop cause I had never heard her speak because they had never spoken to her as a intelligent person. So she had responded because she was intimidated by that medical setting and I knew that she was a nurse. I knew she had a, you know, stuff going on and she was intelligent and she was coming back. I believed in her and I just said to them, you can stick your program up there somewhere. I'm going to bring my mum back. And I did. From that point on I was like, right there is no help. I will go and do this all myself. And that's, you know, that's, that's just that particular bunch of people in one particular place. And that's not an indictment on them all. But that was, that was quite sad. And then I had a wonderful neurophysio. So let's get onto your neurophysio cause you've gone down this path now after going through this. Was that the reason that you went and studied neurophysiology?

Speaker 4: (37:35)
Yeah, definitely swung my Martha sessions that go that way. Yeah. I wasn't actually through PSI. I had an amazing neurophysio and when I went, when I was at Laura, focus on the reason why I decided to go down this path though you know, it was just, she just knew how to push me in the right ways and I wanted to do that for other people. And even when I was at Laura Ferguson, I met so many amazing people that had never asked the, you know, to have a stroke, to have no image, to have Huntington's disease, to have pockets. And so, you know, they never, never, they never asked for that. And just to be able to have it's just you know, the, the, the thing I think about the most is people, there's dependent, you know, if you're, if you lose your independence, I feel that's the huge, like the biggest thing as a human, you don't read it like it, it's that old cliche of, you know, you don't know what you have until it's gone.

Speaker 4: (38:36)
And so basically it's a pout. Somebody that does the pendant become independent again. That's the most rewarding thing that I can even think of from from, from absolutely. When I, when people ask me why I wanted to become a pussy, I say there's three things. So one of those I knew I always wanted to help people work from a health perspective. And originally I actually wanted to become a doctor and do medicine. So they laid onto their leads onto my second reason. That was the reason why I toasted the physio and it's purely because I probably had hit the, you know, Gordon, she was amazing. I'm going to start her name out there because she is amazing. They she made me understand that being a physiotherapist you just were able to have. And there's just this natural and therapeutic relationship that you just can't have as a doctor is, you know, as a relationship proficient.

Speaker 4: (39:34)
Yeah. Your ability to be able to have those real deep connection with, with your patients was like, there was, that's the reason why I really got back to where I am today because of that. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm a very people person. So having that intense of kind of relationship with each other collectively, you know, having that shared goal of kind of getting to that, to that same, to that shared place where they want to, that they want to achieve. As you know, second to none. It's a bond for life really, isn't it? I can see how much you love and respect what she did for you and how much it means. And this is why it's on me to becoming a physiotherapist rather than a doctor. The complete opposite of like, I had a neurophysio too who came to our house afterwards and he was wonderful.

Speaker 4: (40:31)
He gave me the belief that we could do this. He gave me the basic tools so that I could work every day with here cause I couldn't afford obviously everything. But he gave me the information that I could then put that into practice on a day by day by day basis. It's really common sense. It's just being able to apply it in the right way and try to break movements down. Now how do you teach someone to, I specifically look at it in three ways, you know, narrow cause as I think of it as he got function, strategy and impairment, that's basically, that's, that's my, that's like my go to for anything basically. So you know what you wanna achieve as function, you have strategies to achieve that function and then by you have an impairment which affects the strategy to be able to perform the function.

Speaker 4: (41:18)
Yes. Yep. So obviously the goal is function by why you have to do a specifically time work on the impairment and then effectively your strategies should try and improve and then you start, that's how you progress to the next kind of thing. And then, then what happens is you'll be able to perform their function again. It's like a soap tech. I'm like, I'm trying to simplify it, but that's how I try and approach things. Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense to me. Yeah. That's like free three steps and there's a variety of ways of how you can integrate your treatment methods. So there's a variety of treatment methods that you can use, but that's the ultimate call it, that's the, that's the basis of it that I run by. Wow, I'm going to bring them up to see you one day, what's the next thing I can do with it?

Speaker 4: (42:06)
So they basically, when I funded, when I recovered, I decided to become a therapist. So I enrolled into A A T and started in 2016. Obviously because I got a dog, cause 2015 had already started because I had a bit of paper and I just kinda wanted to give them my stuff that either actual year where I just worked and just got back on it to actually get back to normality. And then I decide to go on on the intake in 2016. And AAT is now I'm gonna fly should be an, it should be an advertisement for them or something. Yeah. Yeah. They're amazing. So I love that. I love being a part of that. They invest like the way our lectures were, they all came from a clinical experience. They weren't, they were heavily based on the theory.

Speaker 4: (43:02)
So, you know, they, they basically, they, they pushed down a farts to be able to have a clinical reasoning. And maybe I want to think on a fetus practitioners as clinicians, I want us to be clinicians. They want, they don't want us to be bookworms and lab and just writing, research things out all the time. Cause at the end of the day, you know, our, we're providing a service and we want it to be based around real good quality service. Not just, you know, anyone go on Google and find out and do this, you know, you know, I can do that. We want it to be able to, so they've really and forced their kind of encourage and encourage that type of learning. So it was very practical. And I'm a very practical kind of person. And it's really weird, you know, obviously when I was going through my rehab with his 2014 and they're learning and become in basically going through my physiotherapy degree, I look back on when I was through my rehab and I could see all the little tricks that you said. They will create these signs and your physio you create like the games and really it's actually, it's an objective measure for being. So I didn't really realize that it was actually like a, she's, she's testing me but I didn't know that. Wow. We've got them on or big take tests in all photos just to help me with like picking up things and putting them in. But secretly she had been timing me.

Speaker 4: (44:37)
She had made it basically. She made a lot of things cause I'm very sport all of my sports. So she made a lot of things in the games like paying the, we you know, you just, you can be as creative as you like as a neurophysio just to get that function back. Yeah. and you know, you learn, you learn basically all the main three, which is cardio, musculoskeletal and neuro. You always remember the principles of all three. Highly effective when you come out of uni, you kind of the side, we really want to kind of stop that all like basically to down and down. And so I obviously obviously matches. Obviously neuro, I do have a miscarriage. I do like that as well. And most people do do musculoskeletal. That's like your normal, full possessive, your body. Everybody knows about.

Speaker 4: (45:28)
But yeah, my interest is always possibly always going to be neurons just purely from an empathetic point of view. Having that rewarding feeling of being able to help someone get from a to B and just being a part of their journey with them. Yeah. They've ever wanted to be a credited with any of the, you know, them getting there. It's because it's all in. It's just being able to share their journey with them. But it's amazing to be able to, to provide that framework for people to, to learn from and to grow from. And so I just wanna like wrap up in a few minutes, but I want you, you got this again. Yes. You went through this whole thing again in January this year.

Speaker 4: (46:12)
August last August, 2019 so I was the special 1% of the entire world to get GPS twice. Wow. That's insane. It's super, super unlucky. But this time I have my wife, yes. Father-In-Law. I can never be grateful and thankful enough for them because this time, at least they, we knew what we were dealing with and we see Australia and stuff. It was just a lot and was still very tough and I still kind of, you know, internalized a lot of things. And you know, that, that same thing that the last time when I kind of found my cell phone with regards to my, you know, challenging my masculinity and keeping things internalized, trying to get through myself instead of feeling like I'm burdening everyone else with what's going on with me. But you know, Claire and Steven definitely helped me get through that. And I should apologize to my wife because I know it's probably very, very, very tough on it. Anyone you love and when you're going through hard times, you're always going to have moments where you didn't do what you wanted to do. When you look back afterwards. I mean, I've had times like with where I've been, like

Speaker 3: (47:30)
Afterwards gone, shit that wasn't good behavior, you know, on my behalf and, or you think, you know, but you're just in a desperate state of exhaustion and fatigue and the grind of it all and you did things that you're not surprised of. Now, you know, in my case where you think, you know, we have yelled at her for something or you know, just gotten frustrated and gone, Oh for goodness sake, you know, and then you're like, that's

Speaker 4: (48:03)
Time is as much as I was plus time round. It was amazing. Effectively Steven was my head of Gordon the farm. That's, you know, we went, we went to the polls basically three times a week and we went into the hospital twice a week. And he was the one basically taking me through all of my exerciser and whatnot and you know, clearly had to obviously go to work every day. But at the end of the day, she's like my biggest inspiration, the person that I aspire to be like, cause she knows who she is. She sounds awesome. Gotta meet. He's he always makes me want to be a better person or just a better man. Yeah. She, she sees me like she, she can, she sees through me if they make sense, she feeds me. She knows me better than I did myself. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (48:52)
You can be, you can be real with her too. You, you are who you are and she loves you for all the, all the good, the bad and the ugly. And isn't that what it's a wonderful thing. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (49:05)
Well the whole my kids look, I mean to me I couldn't make it bad side loss basically up to my elbows, into my knees as time. So I still had function and my, you know, basically my, it wasn't as bad, but it was still GBS even still take like six to seven months before I can actually, he's coming out the other end of this couldn't have been on myself. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (49:31)
Right. We're gonna wrap up now. What's the message? You know, there's a couple of good messages that have come out of today saying like, as a, as a young Mari, you know, men, you've faced us with amazing strengths and the wisdom that you are beyond your years. I mean, what are you now, 29, 2030 29 30 turning 30 wisdom beyond your years because of what you've been through and that is going to help so many people and your career and what you, what you do. And I'm very excited as it is. I know Steven is to see where you go in life because you know the power and the money that you already have now because of what you've experienced and your openness and your thing. I just think it's fantastic. And you're going to really be empowering lots of other people going through and this is probably, you know, your life's call and you know, is to help people and to do this and to share your story. You know, I think it's important. So this is hopefully the first time you were sharing it and won't be the last, I guess

Speaker 4: (50:37)
My take home is search after everything that I've been through with everything and all the people that I met. And then I have my wife and Steve and everyone inclusive my family. I think the biggest thing for me will be I think I'll probably look at it at this time of the kind of leader that I want to be like. So it's really, as I said before, it's being able to understand and having their perception of others, you know, never worrying, never caring about the perception of myself. You'll never, if you, if you can understand the perception of others you want to have, you always have an empathetic point of view on my fear. You'll be able to actually stand on the feet, stand in their shoes, sorry. And then understand, tied on the stand, what they're going through and instead of a sympathetic point in life, because at a point when you can become too sympathetic in not feeling sorry for them and then that's not going to help them at all. Empathetic, sympathetic. So that's the kind of leader that I want to be like. And that's what I want to,

Speaker 3: (51:41)
You're well on your way to doing that and you have a lot of money. You can see it. It just comes out through the screen. So thank you very much for sharing so openly and honestly today, your journey because it is empowering to other people who are going through difficult times. And this is, you know, part of the job of the show is to educate people around, you know, health and fitness and the latest science and the latest stuff. But also to make us understand like we're all human and we all have these feelings and we can get through tough times strategies and tools to do that. And you obviously found a few along the way. So I wish you well and you know, I'm excited to see where you go mate. And any last words, any last words before?

Speaker 4: (52:29)

Speaker 3: (52:35)
Love it. Thanks. Thanks. Bye.

Speaker 1: (52:37)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this episode Lisa speaks with NZ's top Ozone Therapy Machine providers and expert on all things Ozone, Kim Saxton of Natural Ozone (www.naturalozone.co.nz)

What is Ozone Therapy?

Ozone Therapy refers to a collection of procedures and protocols which have been developed by medical experts using medical ozone to treat a condition or reduce symptoms. They include:

Injection - Auto hemotherapy; or direct injection into a vein or joint.

Insufflation - in the ear; vaginal; rectal.

Inhalation - breathing ozonoids given off from ozonated oil.

Ingestion - Ozonated water, ozonated olive oil in capsule form.

Transdermal - Cupping with a funnel. Sauna.

All of the above therapies except for injection can be administered safely in the comfort of your own home using the equipment available through Natural Ozone.

From improved immune system function to stimulating the uptake of life-giving oxygen, delivering anti-microbial benefits and enhancing the function of the mitochondria (our cells energy powerhouses), your decision to begin ozone therapy is a health-enhancing one!

Ozone therapy refers to the process of administering ozone gas into your body to treat a disease or wound.

Ozone is a colorless gas made up of three atoms of oxygen (O3). It can be used to treat medical conditions by stimulating the immune system. It can also be used to disinfect and treat disease.

How it works

Ozone therapy works by disrupting unhealthy processes in the body. It can help stop the growth of bacteria that are harmful.

Medical ozone has been usedTrusted Source to disinfect medical supplies and treat different conditions for more than 150 years. For example, if you have an infection in your body, ozone therapy can stop it from spreading.

Ozone therapy can be effective at treating infections caused by:

bacteria

viruses

fungi

yeast

protozoa

Ozone therapy also helps flush out infected cells. Once the body rids itself of these infected cells, it produces new, healthy ones.

What it helps treat Ozone therapy is used for a variety of conditions.

Breathing disorders

People with any type of breathing disorder may be good candidates for ozone therapy.

By providing more oxygen to your blood, ozone therapy can help reduce the stress on your lungs. Your lungs are responsible for supplying oxygen to your blood.

Clinical trials for people with asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) are currently in progress.

Diabetes

Ozone therapy also shows promise in reducing the risk of complications from diabetes.

Complications are usually caused by oxidative stress in the body. If ozone therapy can bring new, fresh oxygen to the blood and tissues, people with diabetes could have much better outcomes.

People with diabetes also experience poor wound healing. According to a 2015 study, ozone therapy could be helpful for repairing skin and tissue.

Immune disorders

Ozone therapy may have benefits for people with immune disorders because it can help stimulate the immune system.

Some links of interest mentioned during the podcast:

Natural Ozone https://naturalozone.co.nz/collections/ozone-therapy-1

Natural Ozone Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NaturalOzoneNZ/

Frank Shallenberger The Ozone Miracle: http://www.theozonemiracle.com/

Library of medical studies, journal publications and references on Ozone Therapy https://www.zotero.org/groups/46074/isco3_ozone/items/JWHQISE3/library

Dr Robert Rowen https://drrowendrsu.com/

Ozone therapy clinics in NZ:

Dr Wayne McCarthy https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/meet-the-team/dr-wayne-mccarthy-naturopathic-physician/

Michelle Roberts : https://www.michellesoxygen.co.nz/

About Kim Saxton

It was back in 2007 when Kim first encountered the extraordinary power of O3 gas while working with a small local company. Her background in business development and MSc in International Management brought that enterprise onto a good business footing while she gained formidable knowledge of this fascinating branch of science. Armed with these years of research and experience, Kim independently founded Natural Ozone in 2016.

Natural Ozone supplies all the products and associated equipment required to harness the full range of applications for ozone including air and water purification, room and car sanitisation, as well as health treatment. With well-established partner companies who have manufactured to their exacting standards for over a decade, Natural Ozone is uniquely placed within Australasia to supply high quality, reliable equipment.

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Today everybody to pushing the limits today. I have another exciting guest for you, Kim Saxton of naturalozone.co.nz, the leading ozone machine providers in New Zealand is to guest on the show today and Kim has going to be explaining what exactly ozone therapy is, how you can use it, the various ways of getting it into the body, why you should do that and all the conditions that can be helped with ozone therapy. Now this is something that's been on my radar for a while, so I was really, really excited to finally catch up with Kim and I'm going to be trialing out the ozone therapy over the coming weeks. So I will let you know how I go. And thanks very much to come for doing this interview. Before we go over to kim, just want to remind you two things.

Speaker 2: (01:00)
We have our next epigenetics public webinar that we're holding online via zoom on the 27th of May at 6:30 PM. If you want to find out about it, if a genetics program, which is all about personalized health and understanding your genes and how they're expressing themselves, then go over to epigenetics.lisatamati.com to register for that webinar 27th of May at 6:30 PM New Zealand time. You can come in and find out all about the epigenetics program that we offer and how it can help you. And finally, before we go into the show, just another plug for my book, relentless, which I bought out a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now. Really, really great read in this time of Coburn and all that uncertainty and taking on big challenges cause that's what that book is all about. You can grab that on my website, lisatamati.com. It's available on all the audio books, the eBooks, the Amazon, the Kindles, the, you name it, it's available everywhere. So check that out. It's called relentless. How a mother and daughter defied the odds right now over to Kim Saxton from natural ozone.

Speaker 1: (02:16)
Sorry.

Speaker 3: (02:16)
Good. All right. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tamati at pushing the limits and I have the lovely Kim saxton with me. Kim, how you doing?

Speaker 4: (02:24)
Very good. Hi Lisa.

Speaker 3: (02:26)
It's really cool to have you there. Kevin is setting an initial 10. What was the name of the place? The villains.

Speaker 4: (02:32)
Cool. Cool. See at Bay actually, which is yeah, one Bay around from Luton.

Speaker 3: (02:38)
Yes. Actually that's been in the news lately, hasn't it? And of course, thereby Bay, I think when the cruise ship was off there was,

Speaker 4: (02:45)
That's right.

Speaker 3: (02:47)
I just remember that somewhere popped into my head. So Kim is with us today to talk ozone and ozone therapy and Kim owns a company called naturalozone.co.nz. Then I'll put them on links and things after to comes website and the products that they do and she's going to share her knowledge today. Everything around ozone. And I'm really fascinated by this and it's something that's been on my radar for the last couple of years and I just haven't got there to do it. But I'm hearing amazing things both in relation to the coronavirus you know, if we want to be current and also many, many other areas. So can, can you tell us a little bit, so you've been in the ozone world now for quite a few years.

Speaker 4: (03:33)
Yes. So basically about 15 years I first came into contact to ozone and, and well, the amazing things that it can do via my former partner. And he had been already had been involved with ozone therapy and ozone products for about 10 years. Before I met him. He had actually contracted hepatitis B while traveling through India and after, yes, lots and lots of conversations like you do with people. Lisa I had come across ozone therapy and actually cured himself of hepatitis B which, you know you, you say that to a GP and they'll go, yeah. But yeah, I was on therapy alone. He took himself hepatitis B and, and got into building machines. I came along and made a business around it. So

Speaker 3: (04:40)
So you have a background as the masters in international management, isn't it?

Speaker 4: (04:45)
Yes, that's right. Yeah. So I studied that in London, university of London at Southwest university, which is a school of African and Asian studies and that's a, yeah. Yeah. Basically you got a big international management college with focus on Asia. Yeah, it's run through the university of London.

Speaker 3: (05:08)
So you're able to use a lot of that skills to build a business around something that you knew was powerful and good, but

Speaker 4: (05:15)
It's coming from a family that's, yeah, pretty, pretty business oriented. So like, yeah, I was telling you earlier that you know, when my family gets together at Christmas, everybody's talking about the latest startup and latest technology and yeah, you know, we're also debating about what the government's doing and all that. You know, but everybody's like jumping right in there with their ideas and innovation and I've got three older brothers and very supportive growing up. They're, they're all awesome. And we were all good friends, so and support of each other. So yeah. And, and actually now what we're saying is a lot of international connections and things like that. And, and particularly, particularly from Asia, like I'm already quite well established in Asia Australian and New Zealand markets, but wow, they were getting from India and Singapore and, and things like this and this part of the book.

Speaker 3: (06:29)
So share this year, this powerful therapy with people. So, okay, let's go into ozone. People would have heard, probably let you know, I think most people's knowledges, I've heard about it. Some people have said it's great dunno where I can get it done. Really one of those, or this seems to be, and even for me, I've read a couple of books and things. I'm still a little bit confused about all of the variety. It seems like it affects everything and the different applications and the different ways you can use it. Can we just start at the beginning and say what is ozone you know, from molecule point of view and what did the ozone machines do?

Speaker 4: (07:09)
Sure. So ozone is a gas and it has three atoms. So oxygen has two atoms and ozone has three. So where is oxygen is stable. It wants to the two oxygen atoms. They want to stay together and main stable and bond. But ozone is relatively unstable, so it's highly active. I like to think of it as enhanced oxygen. With the oxygen atom. It's it's very powerful when you can harness it and use it which there's tons of ways that we're going to get into and I'm really excited about that. But yeah, if you can harness that power, that extra oxygen atom, then it's very powerful. So the way that ozone is created naturally in the atmosphere, so it's in the higher, I'm answering the lower atmosphere, but with your, they liked and lightning storms and any kind of energy that will come along and will spoon your oxygen atoms. And what, what then happens is a lot of other oxygen the Adam's will bond and form oxygen and that's majority of what's happening. But also what's happening is it will give off ozone. So this a strong base get off and all form with another two oxygen atoms and form for my zone. And,

Speaker 3: (08:56)
And we have an ozone layer, don't we? We all know that the ozone layer having holes in it.

Speaker 4: (09:00)
Yeah, yeah. And, and you can, you can actually smell ozone. So after, after the lightning storm, when it's at really fresh smell, after we've had this big storm at night and you wake up in the morning and there's sun shining and you can really S it smells so good, smells really, really fresh. And that's, that's ozone. And also a few go and stand under a waterfall or go to the beach and there's big crashing surf. That's all giving off ozone. Wow. Basically breaking up those oxygen atoms and it's all given off ozone. So and, and in low levels it's it's very good and very healthy for us, but in high concentrations which he can produce conditionally to ozone generators then it is an irritant to the lungs. So and that's very non, so about the, when we get into ozone therapy about the only thing you can't do with those own therapy is breathe directly the ozone guests in high concentrations and low concentrations. It's absolutely fine. Yep.

Speaker 3: (10:10)
Cause it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't pick the lungs in the negative way and can actually lead to death if you have a really, really high dose of advisers. Is that right?

Speaker 4: (10:20)
Or just damages just really damages the lungs in particular people with asthma. Yeah, for a strong irritant to actually know you've, you've done too much ozone cause you'll, you'll have a horrible coughing attack which can, which can go on and be you know you know, quite severe. But actually if you, if you stop puffing I'm, I'm Mike, you know, like you were saying before that you want to have a laboratory and doing all sorts of experiments and things like that. So one of the things I do is make ozonated oil, which can take about a month. And sometimes when it's kind of on its last legs, then the ozone, after it's fully infused into the oil, we'll start off guessing and I've walked into the room and there's too much ozone in there and I'll breathe too much and my stop coughing. But if I reached for the vitamin C and take the vitamin C straight away, then immediately you're, you're fine. It's also not the end of the world.

Speaker 3: (11:26)
Yeah. Yeah. And it would have to be pretty, pretty hard to assess, to do some serious damage, but you don't sit at the end of a ozone generator. And sucker. Okay. So what are some of the ways we can harness, before we get into what it helps, what are some of the methodologies or the delivery mechanisms that we can get that the ozone to the right part of the body and get it inside?

Speaker 4: (11:52)
Yeah, so that's a great question. And, and often the first one that people, people ask me then I'd say, Oh dude, do you breathe it? And I'm like, well, no, it was never said, we can't, we can't do that. But yeah, basically there is, yeah. Every, every other common way that you can, you, you can get into the body. So I was just mentioned the ozonated oil, what you can do is breathe the ozonated oil. So when I was zone is infused into olive oil, which is a traditional medium that's usually used and it's actually changing its state very, very quickly because, yeah, this ozone is, is reactive, it's unstable, and the olive oil will actually hold, hold the ozone. But it, it changes it Satan to something called Oh, it's annoyed. And when you breathe that that I was annoyed from the olive oil as it's been infused, then that's really good for lung conditions.

Speaker 4: (13:01)
So that's how you can help breathing conditions and the lungs, which is very relevant at the moment. So that would be like in a sort of essential oil diffuser type situation. It's, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not really in the realm of essential oil. Ozone does have a very restaurant smell. And a lot of people will be put off actually by this strong smell. But it's, it's actually, you know, and fish tanks, you diffuse the stones to just bubble oxygen and to the water clear and plain in the fish tanks. So these diffusers stones, what were you as as it was on, it's very corrosive. So we always use ozone resistant materials. So I have, I import diffuse the stones from America, we can't make it here. And my dad of ceramic and stone. And you basically diffused that the pure form of the guests into a, the olive oil and that will form owes in words and you complete that.

Speaker 4: (14:14)
And so that's, so that's one of the modems and then everything under the sun. So the most powerful way to get ozone into the body is actually to go to a clinic and do what's called also hammy off the or I the ozone. And this is systematic. So it's, it's working on the, on the, on the total body because basically the medical grade ozone is getting into the body and getting into your blood system and then your blood declining. It's really doing a lot of amazing, amazing, powerful things that we can get into also. But w we all say medical grade ozone, that's, this is a really important point because of, we've talked about how unstable the ozone is and basically reacts with whatever is around it. So if we just have like a normal ozone generator then that bull jaw and ear, and we know that the air in which we brave is only about 21% oxygen and year and the rest of the ear is whole lot of other guesses.

Speaker 4: (15:29)
Yeah. So if you, if you bring that normal ear into the ozone generator, then what? Then the guys are more react to that normal air and produce a whole load of yeah. Different, different kinds of guesses. And some of these will be nitrate kind of guessing. And that we definitely do not want to get into the body. So what we want to do for medical grade ozone therapy is to get harness at ozone and it's very pure form. And we do that by inputting a very pure form of Austin's, which you can get from an oxygen tank, which is, yeah. Not over 98% purity. It was a medical grade oxygen,

Speaker 3: (16:14)
Which has its own regulations and problems having it on oxygen clarity clinic. We have, we have ways around that. I a woman here mafia, the boom and oxygen situation.

Speaker 4: (16:31)
Yeah. So that so when you get up Purifill mobile oxygen and and that's drawn into the ozone then with a very specifically built or its own generator, and we call it a medical grade ozone generator because all of the parts within the ozone generator are all the parts and because, yeah, yeah. Offsides everything. So things like glass, titanium, Silicon, stainless steel yeah, ceramic these things are, have got really good zoned resistancy and, and so these are the kind of materials that you are looking for when you're, when you're going out to buy a medical ozone generator. And that's really important question to ask whoever's in back. And so it's and it also has a built in a specific way that it has a session amount of output. So with ozone therapy, basically the measurement that we use is mg per milliliter or America.

Speaker 4: (17:46)
They, they use gamma. And anything on the 20 mg per ML is not going to do anything. And anything over 95 is shown to be detrimental to the, to your body cells. So you don't want to go above that. So it's a very non and very specific window of effectiveness when you're using ozone therapy and and ozone therapy units are, are built that way. And because I built that way, then it's knowing that if you follow the protocols, it is known to be the most safest therapy. There are no side effects. There's only the only thing that can happen is a little bit of detox. Fine. Yep. And they also prevented

Speaker 3: (18:39)
Yeah. When you guys finally, okay, so, so just going back to the Ivy so you go, you have to go to an ozone clinic. Is it doctor only situation, you know, you have to be a medical doctor to do ozone therapy or how is it regulated?

Speaker 4: (18:56)
So yeah, different, different countries have different regulations. We're so pretty fortunate to New Zealand with, with our regulations. Yeah, as long as we're transparent and, and we're backing everything up with good science then, then we're good. And in America as ozone therapy is got, comes with messages of things surrounding the FDA. And Australia and Australia also, it's a stricter legislation, but they're academics and they're nice and bright people to refer to. And but actually in New Zealand, nobody is offering the IV ozone. So nobody. Wow. Yeah. And now the, and the reason being is the space where I was on therapy has had a bad reputation and the past is because of the IV ozone and somebody that doesn't know anything about how, you know, hasn't been trained, how to handle needles and things like that, then I mean, of course a blood ambulance is a real danger. And so if you don't know what you're doing then, then that, that's absolutely shocking. We shouldn't even go there. So it needs to be a case to me. It takes me to try and post them ministering it. So there has been a couple cases of ambulances in the past and that send your sin and not good, but it's got nothing to it.

Speaker 3: (20:50)
Putting needles in your body in the wrong way.

Speaker 4: (20:53)
So

Speaker 3: (20:55)
Okay, so, so Ivy's off the, off the menu and New Zealand at the moment in team past ozone, which I've read about don't do it when you're really powerful and really unfortunate if we don't do that. So what types of therapies are offered in New Zealand, for example? That, you know, like rectal some inflation. Yes. Vaginal supplication. What other ways can you get it into your body?

Speaker 4: (21:25)
Yeah, so so what, what we do at natural ozone is set people up for home ozone therapy and there's a few other clinics that also offer these kinds of treatments within New Zealand and the clinic environment because it's, yeah, a homos went to therapy is it's very well known to be extremely safe. I can yeah, feel very assured to offer equipment and help people set it up in their own home and, and, and getting started with it. So the best thing that you can do outside of clinic is to do the rectal insufflation. And that's because it's systematic. It's getting into your yeah, it's true. You call on and into your blood system. And that's this way for this total body exposure to the beneficial effects of ozone therapy.

Speaker 3: (22:23)
Sounds glamorous. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (22:28)
Considerably less expensive than going to a clinic. And you've basically got this equipment for life and don't even need to get colds and flus anymore, let alone chronic disease, biohacking, all of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (22:46)
rectal insufflation Is probably the most powerful that we can do in the, in home setting. So, sorry, carry on.

Speaker 4: (22:54)
Yeah, so it's quite straightforward. You just have a bag and, and a catheter and you'll fill the bag with with certain concentration and start off with small amount and and that connects to a a very thin and long catheter. And you can insert that on you takes about a minute. And, and that's the best to do after an enema or at the very least bowel moves

Speaker 3: (23:21)
After a movement. Yeah. So do, so it only takes one minute. So you don't have to lie there for an hour with this thing attached to you.

Speaker 4: (23:29)
No, no. It's quite comfortable. You do try to hold it, hold it. And and, and there's there, there has been otherwise of, of doing that in the past. But this is become the kind of gold of, of the men's name, Richmond's flashing.

Speaker 3: (23:48)
And this is the liver isn't it? Cause it goes directly to the liver when it's erectile.

Speaker 4: (23:53)
Yup. Yeah, yup. Yeah. Directly, directly tied in liver and helps everything flush out that way. So then there's other yeah, ways that you can administer ozone therapy. So there's the vaginal that you mentioned and you got 10 minutes and you can build up to about half, half an hour. And yeah, and, and you can minister that directly from those on generator and, and the, and that's really good cause it's actually primarily targeting the immune system and giving that a good boost. And, and any, yeah, so the, the ozone is working both systematically and locally. So basically wherever you can get it in that you, you go for the, the protocols depending on, on what issues you're trying to do. A few but just generally everybody can prevent disease by doing direct ones, deflation, system wide. Also doing saunas are excellent because we know that our skin is a biggest poorest mess it up body. So a lot through our skin and, but we also know that we can't breathe those zones.

Speaker 3: (25:17)
Yes. I had an idea hit out, so I wonder what is box?

Speaker 4: (25:24)
I get a sauna with your end. You just have you hit up, tie a towel around it. So none of the ozone is getting braids and and you can get stained soreness, tents and just sit in one of one of those in your bathroom, sit up in your bathroom and portable and yeah. And then you put the certain concentration of oxygen, pure oxygen ozone mix into the sauna, steam stoner and, and sit there.

Speaker 3: (25:55)
And so it comes on trains too late, so it's transdermal cool. Okay. So that's another way you can get it. And, and, and do you offer at your company the tents and the, the whole, the whole shebang for that or,

Speaker 4: (26:10)
Yeah. So yeah, I, yeah, basically offer all the homophone therapy accessories and gear and everything you need to get cited before that. There's also like you can administer through the ears. And we have modified stiff scopes. That's all made out of ozone resistant material, like Silicon and things. And you just put that into his and that's targeting the brain area. So that'd be good. And things like that then yeah, it's,

Speaker 3: (26:44)
It's directly targeting that area. So I was, I was really effective. Yeah. Was that local, that local graphs of, of just wherever there is a problem area, if you can target it, then, then it can be very effective. Okay. So, all right, let's, let's transition now into what, what ailments that can help with and we are, so let's start at the head, because you just mentioned there, what is the mechanism or you know, like, I don't wanna get too scientific, but what is the mechanism of action? Is it going through into the ear? And you mentioned also tonight us, cause my husband's got that. So I'm selfishly asking about that. How is that the place for, for tinnitus as well? And how does that work?

Speaker 4: (27:30)
Yeah, so I, I would actually let's take a step back and you can actually look at what is the cause of disease itself. Yeah, I'll stop there. And yeah, this is, this is where I was on therapy as kind of the biohack is goat ticket to longevity, don't get disease, but you don't really hear of people dying of nothing, you know. There's, there's usually a associated disease. So I would really, really highly recommend, I don't know if you've come across him, but Dr. Frank Shallenberger

Speaker 3: (28:27)
A little might be a bit, yeah, I'm working on that one.

Speaker 4: (28:33)
So he, he was, he was one of the forefathers of ozone therapy and in America so 40 years on he had smoked it all. He administered therapy and trained from the first guys that invented the James Bond style, ozone medical ozone generators out of America. And have messes of research university and papers backing them. He trained from them. And, and basically one of the guys that have just been administering ozone therapy in a clinic environment and seeing thousands of patients throughout the years. Yeah. W what he talks about is, is really important. He's basically going into what is the root of cools of disease itself when now when we go out and about and and we'll go to the cheapy cheapy and we'll, yeah, they'll do some bicep tastes and yeah, they might say, okay, we've got healthy lungs and we're breathing healthy ear and they'll send us home and say, we're fine. What Dr. Frank Shallenberger is saying is saying, well no, I can, I can actually run my tests and I can show that you are not actually utilizing that oxygen. You might be breathing plenty. We might be like tricking up on these beautiful mountains that we have in New Zealand and breathing really fresh air and even doing yoga and having really great lung capacity for me and whatever. But we might not have the capacity within our body to utilize that oxygen. And so he's coined this term oxygen utilization.

Speaker 4: (30:35)
Now it's how can be described as similarly, you know, any vitamin that we that we're told that we, we have two that were depleted, all of them. W we should take. So, so we go to the doctor and they run some tests and they say, okay, your deficient vitamin basics. And so we'll go home and we'll take sort of one of these, but you six now, just because we're taking that everyday, it doesn't actually mean that our body is, that's a really well known within like we need other kinds of vitamins also. So we can actually utilize vitamin. Don't we need the genes to be able to do the right things?

Speaker 4: (31:20)
So same with oxygen. Just because we're breathing, that doesn't mean that necessarily mean that our body has capacity to utilize it. I mean, certain amount we're obviously using as it would be dead and the best way. And, and that's where yeah, he, he will then run, run some kind of test where he'll is his Scott Paul Murray a certified gadget that he can actually test how well you are utilizing oxygen. So and, and it will actually run the test and it will show, okay, you're using a certain amount. And he also test amount of carbon dioxide that we're expiring. And so what does his show is if you're utilizing oxygen, if you're taking it, if your body has ability to take most of it, and then you're actually, you don't, you don't expire much of the CO2.

Speaker 4: (32:24)
So that's also great. New cure pump change, but you're really healthy ourselves and no, he's good. He'll link that. For example, we can go onto pub med and we'll run a search for yeah. Basically you mitochondria and aging and we'll come up with heaps and heaps of like thousands of papers and we'll also want to search for mitochondria and disease and it will come up with tens of thousands of papers. So, and it's well established that mitochondria are extremely important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if, if our levels of mitochondria are really good, then then actually that is a sign that we are utilizing oxygen. So for utilizing oxygen our mitochondrial functioning is, is excellent. Now what he, what Dr. Frank Shallenberger saw from all these thousands of patients over, you know, 30 years of them coming to the clinic is that Mmm, anybody that had any kind of disease, whether it be cancer or order, immune disease and any kind of disease, then he would run this test and it will show that their oxygen utilization is poor.

Speaker 3: (34:06)
Wow. Man. He'll be fantastic for us all to do to, so no, we were a mitochondria because they're at the basis of all but an agent.

Speaker 4: (34:14)
That's right. Yeah. And he will also get healthy people coming into the clinic. So that was, you know, and that also Ronald, the other tests showing that they don't have any disease and the, what his tests will show is that the oxygen utilization is excellent. You know, their body's ability to take that oxygen and at the cellular level is really, really amazing. You'll also get like some seemingly people some people that come in that that are functioning quite well and same like they're pretty healthy, but they might have a tumor in the breast for example. And interestingly that tests that he'll do will show that actually the oxygen utilization is not that great. Wow. So he's, he's what is basically showing is he can actually see if the road, to me that's the dog by looking at your oxygen utilization and and so,

Speaker 3: (35:32)
So what does dr Shallenberger's, he's got his book, the title of his book. Have you got that in your mind? Because it's on my list, but I haven't got there yet. The ozone, the miracle is one of the miracle of ozone miracle. That was a miracle. There we go. I was AmeriCorps. So if you want to dive deeper into dr Shallenberger's work gone. Great bit. Okay. So, okay. So he's looking at the mitochondria cause we're running at a time. You can, we're going to have to speed it up. The, so your, your ability to use oxygen. So how can a ozone Theraphy help it?

Speaker 4: (36:13)
Sorry, I was on therapy. It's basically directly helping with, with that uptake of oxygen. So when you get this medical grade ozone into the body, it's, it's doing two things. It will have because it cha so it changes it sites very, very quickly because it's reactive. So it will have a little bit of oxidating power and we'll go directly after you know, disease cells themselves. And we all know that disease cells do not thrive in an oxygenated [inaudible]. Same thing. The other thing I was able to do when you get into the body, it will change its state and well form peroxides these yeah, these peroxides clicked flea and honors opioids. And this has a systematic function on the body where you're, yeah, just as something similar to create an upstate of stress. When, when you exercise for example, then you're creating a certain amount of free radicals and your system has to regulate, keep those free radicals in check. That's what it says. Therefore, so, and that's really important. So when, so when you when you get done and similar to when you exercise and your antioxidant system is enhanced and your body is basically stronger so systematically as helping your body fight, whatever's wrong with it,

Speaker 3: (37:58)
Whatever's wrong with it. So this is, this is why it's good. So what sort of diseases or problems can it be beneficial for? If we, if we did a, a list from a to Z or you know, some of the major players

Speaker 4: (38:13)
And we did a list from a to Z, then you can pretty much go through absolutely everything because it's going at the Coles of diseases.

Speaker 3: (38:23)
Sorry, sorry guys. Carry on. My mum has a tip habit of doing that and every one of my podcasts.

Speaker 4: (38:36)
So mostly when, when people come to ozone therapy though, they'll call me and they've gone to the doctor and they'll be diagnosed with a chronic disease, chronic condition. And that's stuff searched out there for everything known to man. They'll come across the ozone therapy. And honestly, it's such a broad spectrum humor. I've had people come to me and I've had every kind of thing under the sun and they'll say, can this help? And they'll tell me a little bit about it and I'll and I'll, yeah. Also, you know, trick the because it's, it's, there's over 1500 articles. For example, in the American society of ozone therapy on peer reviewed studies of ozone therapy. So, you know, I always like to point people directly to the research that's been done. What's the, is there a website that C A I R R T.com.

Speaker 4: (39:38)
Dot com if anyone wants to go and do some research. Okay. So it helps a broad range of diseases because it's getting to the actual base cause of the down, down low and what's happening. And you can also treat so you can treat systematically by, for example, going to the clinic during the auto homeopathy or direct IB or during your the Tampax Asia. Or you can do the home ozone therapy and it's easy at Texas. It doesn't cost very much and you can do it more often and it's, and it's just as powerful if you do the rectal insufflation systematically and then you can do the local administration the, the other kinds of routes depending on what your issues are. If you've got brain issues and you can do the air insufflation, anything to do yeah, anything going on up there and the ladies. So it will not thrush out after a single, really, at the very least, you can breathe those and edit oil for any kind of blind condition. Allergies, asthma, Candido. Yeah, yeah. So, and candida like often through the ear, that's where your husband and son, your son often widespread can do that. Yeah, it's often a sign of that. And so you can actually director directly through the ear and transdermally so you can do those notes on and that's really great for heart prevent heart disease prevention, prevention and treatment. And then you can actually bag any of your limbs.

Speaker 3: (41:38)
The plastic bag, top thing on sale, on the internet. Yeah,

Speaker 4: (41:41)
Yeah. Problems with veins or just, just aches and pains nerve issues or skin, particular kinds of skin conditions to trying to get it. Then we can either bag or you can use this as an oil. So basically the ozone is howled and the, and the oil and yeah, so I've been liking that for, for 15 years now and it's amazing. Like all the time. People come along and now they'll use it and I'll go, you know, cam, I've tried everything for my ex mouth. All my psoriasis. I've tried, I've honestly tried everything under the sun, but this is the only thing that's actually worked. Likewise for any kind of skin condition and also for gum disease and tastes and things.

Speaker 3: (42:40)
Dentists have actually used us, you know, that was one of the first, they were the first adopters of the suite. They, because for, for training their equipment. Yeah,

Speaker 4: (42:48)
That's right. Yeah. So you can so it's really, really powerful at disinfecting it as it will oxides any microbes. So bacteria yeses and every nook and cranny and used in dentistry. And they can also get directly into a root canal itself. And

Speaker 3: (43:16)
But it's before they put a tooth on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: (43:20)
And, and dentistry, so, so used you can inject directly into joints just straight into your, your back and you've got a bulging disc or, or osteoarthritis in the knee. You can inject directly into the joints with those own instead of use and cortisone.

Speaker 3: (43:38)
Oh, Rocky. But again, you can't get that New Zealand probably

Speaker 4: (43:43)
You can and opened up to wine McCarthy. He offers it and fully trained and, and he does a range of ozone therapy.

Speaker 3: (43:56)
I have to get all those links off you show notes. Okay, so, so you've got these three molecules inside and it's, what's it actually doing? What some, so you've got either up, you know, the rectally vaginally in the ear through the oil transdermally Ivy, however you've managed to do it. What's it actually, so it's knocking out pathogens, it's taking out viruses. What's it doing in there?

Speaker 4: (44:30)
Yeah. So yeah, when, when it gets into the body there's two things that does there's limited effects from the ozone itself because ozone is very reactive so it changes it Cypress Cyprus quickly. So, but when it is set ozone, it will go after viruses, bacteria and oxidize them. It's very powerful oxidizer. The second thing it does is as, yeah as, as I mentioned before, it will change the state very quickly and to the proc sides. And yeah, basically getting yeah, your body into check systematically by creating that oxidate of stress, anti antioxidant, it's activated to balance out any theoretical sort of form from, from that. So keeping them in check and that has this wide systematic effect of yeah, really going at the root of cause of disease itself. And it's amazing. I tell you, well, I've had people that have been sent home, you know, various illness and told that, you know, it's so much more than I can do.

Speaker 4: (45:44)
And they get onto ozone therapy and the most powerful ways, and actually they do, they do really well. And if they get enough training, this is why we wanted to share all this information. Tell you something amazing that's going on with coronavirus at the moment and ozone therapy. I'm like the yeah, so the therapy has it has always been very, we're very well known treatment for infectious diseases. So and it was proven successful with SOLs. Oh, he had success with AIDS and we've got sort of studies on that and you can there's, there's one doctor, dr Robert Rowan. I highly recommend that you follow him on Facebook cause you have a time and now he actually went to West Africa and he had, you know, mess. He had real kind of your bureaucratic and get through and push him, push his way through the medical establishment there. But he was allowed to oversee the administration of direct. I was on auto hand me ups, the two, five Ebola cases and, and had really great success. And where as you know, there's this very made a coma if you come in and shut them down. Right? Yeah. It's an incredible story. Basically who actually contracted

Speaker 3: (47:30)
It weren't allowed to get their, and some of them died. And the ones who managed to the health workers who managed to get the ozone therapy survived. And this highlights a lot of the problems.

Speaker 4: (47:43)
Yeah. He's actually in New York city at the moment and he is administering ozone therapy to everybody that wants to yeah. Once he, he's right in the heart of New York city. So, you know, that's, that's what he's doing is offering ozone treatment for anyone that wants it if they can't afford it. Because we all know how the healthcare system is as an American. So he's, he's offering it for free if you can't afford it. And and, and people that are in the early stages, if they've been told that they should be in the hospital and on an NG beta, then legally he's putting everything at risk by trading them and the kind of suppressing that. But if, if you're in the early stages and then he'll treat people, but what's happening and places like Spain and Italy, also China there are, there they are treating we kind of have 19 patients and hospitals and coming out of Italy now is they've actually on their third report and they're just following the, the progress of COVID19 patients in a hospital environment.

Speaker 4: (49:01)
So two hospitals are in the study and now the retina, the stirred report of 75 covid 19 patients and what it's showing so the, so when, yeah, just understanding that if you go to hospital yeah, then you're already not in a very good way. So and actually for example, they're treating these people the, and they're and you can see all the statistics and the bladed it all out, but there's basically 14, nine non-integrated patients that that they've seen and of of those yeah, that stuff saying really messages of improvement. Yeah. For the ones that have been.

Speaker 4: (50:04)
And eventually, yeah, the Pope has really recorded it at all. I can give you the study that's saying a hundred percent efficiency for the, for the patients that were non intubated and in the early stages of COVID19. So they're calling it stage one and stage two. If you get in that early stages, then and you treated with the ozone therapy and getting them Derek direct divey then that getting bittering getting sent home basically there if you're intubated there, there are some that got extra debated so they got you know this is really super invasive. By the time you've got something stuck down your throat, then you're, you're already in extremely deep trouble. But I've managed to get some of them off there if they've managed to finish this round of I was in therapy treatment. They were, they showing that there were overall nine people that did die, that were in this hospital environment of the 73 patients that were treated. But those nine people, they were also showing that they didn't actually, they were in such bad state that they can actually finish.

Speaker 3: (51:25)
They were already intubated and they were already, they couldn't have enough of the ozone. It was too little, too late.

Speaker 4: (51:31)
But also what the shine as said only takes five sessions of this ozone. Oxygen therapy are painful to get. Right. So it's really quick. And that's also what I find with people that come to me, the various problems, chronic diseases being going through everything so long, they'll get onto ozone therapy and then quickly start getting better very, very quickly.

Speaker 3: (51:53)
This is super exciting. So we're going to have to wrap up again cause we've, we've, we've done a little, I know this is a big subject day and this, I was trying to push it along a little bit, but I wanted to get to the good stuff. Okay. So I want to get some of those links off you and, and you know, Dr. Wayne McCarthy and dr Robert Rowan. Perhaps you can give me the links. I can put them in the show notes. And your, so we can people reach out to you to find out more about what you are offering your machines. Where's the best place?

Speaker 4: (52:28)
So I'm a naturalozone.co.nz and all my details are, yeah. On the website. Just quickly, I'll just want to mention what's also extremely relevant in this, this time is actually our air resonators here, air ozone when you're not in the room. Because it's, we're basically, yeah. Going after really powerful, strong concentration of ozone and blasting a room. Then it will remove all viruses, bacteria, pathogens. It's week.

Speaker 3: (53:08)
No, you could, if someone's being like, you know, in a, in a office environment or factory environment or wherever someone's had the coronavirus or whatever, and you want to make sure you're home, you want to kill the virus, you get a, you'd get one of these, the room, get out of

Speaker 4: (53:26)
The room while you're doing it. Right? Yeah. And you know, every, like, honestly, every single public area, if it's used safely and you've, you know, after half an hour you can enter back into the room. Those zones dissipated. It's done. It's saying it's oxidized, it's environmentally friendly. It doesn't leave any chemical byproducts. I'm worried about that. That's right. You know, they're like, they're spraying everything with bleach.

Speaker 3: (53:55)
I want to go back to the gym, but I'm not going back to the gym. Not because of the Corona, but because of the chemicals that they're all spraying around everywhere.

Speaker 4: (54:02)
We've had this in daycare centers, I'll run it at night when everybody's gone, gone home. And this was before this all hit. But just to stop this spread of flus and colds and we've actually shown 30% reduction and yeah, colds and flus within the kids and stuff. And yeah, so cars, houses, what we're doing is becoming home with our groceries and sticking everything in a box. And I've just got these really small ozone generators and you just put the end of the tube in there and run it for a half an hour and all get into going to try and get touch all the surfaces. If you can get the high concentration, then it is proven that there is no microbe, that it's resistant to ozone

Speaker 3: (54:53)
Shoot. That is powerful come so that we can really, really protect yourself from whatever else.

Speaker 4: (55:00)
Yeah. So when, so when all this crisis set my phones yeah, it's just, it's still a, there's still a lot, not a lot of people that really know about it. And also this is kind of you out there are ozone, it's dangerous as bad if you breathe it, you're going to die and things like that. And all we're saying is if you cutting safety labels and everything, and if you, if you operate this machine safely,

Speaker 3: (55:30)
Every, everything is dangerous. If you use it the wrong way, car is dangerous. If you don't follow the rules on the road, you know that that should not be prohibited from us, from, from using it in, in the, in that when it's going to actually benefit their health.

Speaker 4: (55:47)
Correct. Yeah. And not, and not ruin the environment, you know, so, so it'd be the penetration than anything else in the market that we can see actually, because it's because it's a guest that we'll get to just to see the hidden areas and things. So

Speaker 3: (56:11)
What about ozone water? Just last thing. So putting ozone into the water

Speaker 4: (56:17)
Water is amazing for us. Yeah. And yeah, so we actually have just small resonate ozone generators. If all you want to do is drink ozonated water, it's getting enhanced active oxygen into the body. We should be drinking water anyway. Why not super charge oxygenated water. You can drink up to eight classes a day and you start off slowly and you and you build up drinking on an empty stomach and it's really great energy boost. Boost your immune system also on a water. The students, you know, the hand sanitizer is outside of all the supermarkets at the moment on a hand and these pop paper was skin conditions and things like that. We've got studies that show that ozonated water is significantly more effective than hand sanitizer and it's, and it's good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to dry. Our skin is actually really good for us. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (57:30)
Wow. That's powerful. Okay, so everybody go to naturalozone.co.nz. Check out all the machines that come here and what the different applications and you can, you can educate people to people. Buy something, a machine of you, you can educate them in the use of it and do that virtually or how do you do, do that?

Speaker 4: (57:52)
Yeah. Yeah. So give me a call if you're unsure where to start. And join our newsletter and we will have, we'll be coming out with more videos soon. And we also have oxygen concentrators when, when, what happened, when all this, when we started to go into lockdown because I have oxygen concentrators and stop cause I used in conjunction with industrialized zone and I was doing therapy then. Everybody started panic buying, well my oxygen concentrators. And we, we stopped up for on public and, and, and generally people are getting these as if you've got a lung condition and breathing oxygen or see if you've got SIO PD or if you're an S medic or something like that. Having a oxygen concentrator is a really good idea.

Speaker 3: (58:54)
Yeah. We've got one extra tour, hyperbaric just to top up, you know, mum's levels, you know, if she doesn't want to get into the chamber cause it's a big mission. Just to, just to have a top off, you know, it's a really good thing to have I think, and especially if you're going to get sick or anything, so.

Speaker 4: (59:12)
Sure.

Speaker 3: (59:14)
Okay. So you've got those as well. So you've got a whole re array of, of different devices and you know, the rectal staff and all that. You can explain it cause people would be like, how do I do that?

Speaker 4: (59:26)
Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, like usually, yeah, if you want to prevent disease and live a long and healthy life, I would really say, you know, at home I was on therapy is biohacking dream. And, and will save you lots of money in the, in the long term, cause you won't need to go to the doctor anymore and you won't need to get some fluids.

Speaker 3: (59:51)
But prevention isn't it? That's what we're all about, not being there,

Speaker 4: (59:56)
But usually what's happening. People get disease and they find out about ozone therapy that come to me. Right. But if you're not comfortable with our zone, at the very least drink that water, it's really good for us. Yeah. And, and drink that daily.

Speaker 3: (01:00:11)
Put it in your ear like that. That can't be too painful.

Speaker 4: (01:00:15)
Yeah.

Speaker 3: (01:00:16)
That's fantastic. Kim, thank you so much for your time and your information. I'll grab all those links off you. So naturalozone.co.nz. You've got any questions for Kim? Michelle, she'll answer those heavily for you. Get this word out there. We need to be sharing. This is why we have the show so we can share great information with each other and get, get that to the people that need it. So thanks very much for your time today. Come any last words before we go,

Speaker 4: (01:00:41)
But just, just thanks so much, Lisa, for having me on the show. Really enjoyed talking to you and yeah, look forward to your upcoming podcast and reading your book.

Speaker 3: (01:00:51)
Great. And now that we're connected, we'll be dangerous.

Speaker 4: (01:00:54)
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: (01:00:57)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this interview Lisa interviews Jez Morris, a clinical sleep physiologist on everything sleep apnoea and also cardiac testing. They do a deep dive into the symptoms and treatments and consequences of not picking up sleep apnoea. Lisa has a personal interest in this as it pertains to brain function and rehabilitation and it was one of the key factors in saving her mum Isobel's life after a major aneurysm and stroke. Jez explains the different types of sleep apnoea and co morbidities and risk factors. You can visit Jez and his team at Fast Paced Solutions www.fastpacedsolutions.co.nz About Fast Pace Solutions It was a common belief in the need for equitable health care – and improved accessibility for all – that led to three healthcare professionals joining forces to provide primary-based diagnostic services to GPs, specialists and concerned patients themselves. Fast Pace Solutions offers a range of cardiorespiratory diagnostic tests aimed at early and fast diagnosis of heart, lung and sleep-related complaints. Working closely with a range of health professionals and operating out of their new premises in the Strandon Professionals Centre, Michael Maxim, Jez Morris, and Alan Thomson want to encourage more people who have issues with breathing, dizziness, palpitations or sleep to get themselves checked out.

Visit them at www.fastpacedsolutions.co.nz

  Ambulatory Blood Pressure Monitoring   Ambulatory blood pressure monitoring (ABPM) is concerned solely with detecting problems related to high blood pressure – a hugely significant health risk which is currently on the rise.   Blood pressure monitoring involves wearing a cuff linked to a small device which measures your blood pressure every half hour (or hourly during the night) over a 24-hour period, while you go about your day.

Many studies have confirmed this method is superior to clinic blood pressure testing in predicting future cardiovascular events and targeting organ damage. This means your doctor can provide a much more accurate diagnosis and effective management plan

       Holter Monitoring   A Holter monitor is a small, lightweight heart rate monitor that measures the rhythm as well as the rate of your heart for a continuous period of 24 or 48 hours.   The monitor has three leads which are attached to your chest via ECG electrodes. The Holter monitor's primary purpose is to correlate symptoms such as heart palpitations, rapid breathing or dizziness with the ECG (see below) and rule in or out any abnormal rhythm activity. The patient is required to document all symptoms in a diary.

24 Hour Holter Monitor
Exercise Tolerance Testing

     An exercise tolerance test (or ETT) requires a patient to exercise on a treadmill in the clinic while being monitored by a 12-lead ECG (electrocardiogram) and blood pressure machine and is often used if we don't pick anything up on a Holter heart monitor.   The ETT replicates how your body behaves under stress and can pick up issues such as angina and demonstrate how adequate your heart function is as well as your exercise tolerance. Chest pain and shortness of breath while exercising are common indicators for this test.

     Cardiac Event Monitoring     Similar to a Holter monitor, but worn for a full week, cardiac event monitors (or cardiac event recorders) are used to correlate a patient's heart rate and rhythm to their ECG (electrocardiogram) over a period of 7 days.

A cardiac event recorder is preferred when symptoms are less frequent and allows a patient to activate an "Event" button to snapshot a rhythm when they experience any abnormal symptoms. It is often used for younger patients.

7 Day Holter

       ECG and Oximetry     An electrocardiogram (ECG) measures the electrical activity of your heart via 12 leads attached to your chest and body. It takes only a few minutes and records your heart's rhythm, checking for abnormal activity which may indicate damage to your heart or blood vessels caused by high blood pressure. An ECG can detect problems long before they become significant issues. In fact, everyone over the age of 45 should have an ECG.

Oximetry measures your oxygen levels while you sleep, or for selected hours of the day.

Resting ECG

       Sleep Studies     Getting enough quality sleep at the right times can help protect your mental health, physical health, quality of life, and safety. Snoring is one of the most under-acknowledged symptoms in the management of health. Although often seen as a benign problem, it can cause disharmony in relationships as well as significant disruption to sleep.

Ongoing sleep deficiency can raise your risk for some chronic health problems such as high blood pressure, heart failure, diabetes and many breathing disorders – sleep apnoea is a major cause of cardiac and respiratory issues. We offer an advanced at home sleep study to assess the severity of snoring/sleep apnoea and impact of cardiac and respiratory health.

Level 3 Sleep Study

Level 4a Sleep Study (Oximetry)

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Welcome back to the show. This week I have an exciting episode with a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, who's been a friend of the family for years and we've actually been in business together. We had a hyperbaric oxygen therapy clinic, but today we're going to be talking about sleep apnea, what it is, what the risks are involved when you have sleep apnea, how to assess it. The symptoms and sinuses are really, really important topic. It's so important that, you know, I don't believe that my mum would be alive if we hadn't picked up that she had sleep apnea. So it's a very interesting episode to learn all about sleep, what it does for your body, and it's a really fantastic interview. So I hope you enjoy the show with, jeez Morris. Um, just a reminder to I have my new book relentless out, which is available on my website.

Speaker 2: (01:03)
Um, it tells a story and part of that story, uh, from bringing her back, uh, from a major aneurism, a part of that rehabilitation journey was, uh, diagnosing her with sleep apnea in dealing with that. So it's really pertinent to today's topic. Um, I am currently working on a brain rehabilitation course that I'm going to be offering to people since the release of my mom's book and the story of her, um, incredible, amazing comeback journey, um, from being not much over a vegetative state to being now fully functioning again, um, fully healthy. Um, I have been inundated with requests for people wanting help with brain rehabilitation, whether it's strokes, dementia, Alzheimer's, uh, TBIs, concussions and so on. So I'm in that, in the throws of making that course because, uh, you know, I just can't deal with so many one-on-one. Um, so look out for that. It's going to be available hopefully within the next couple of months if I can get my energy. Um, and really looking forward to sharing that with the world as well on the back of this book. So right now let's go over to James Morris and learn all about sleep apnea.

Speaker 2: (02:16)
Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here. and pushing the limits. So thank you for being with me again today. I have a friend of mine who is a sleep physiologist, a clinical sleep physiologist. Jeez Morris, how are you doing? Geez. Oh, very, very good now. Um, jeez and I have a bit of a history together. Um, I'm uh, he, when my mum had a stroke and everyone knows that she had an aneurysm and a stroke a few years ago, um, and I was doing better with the hospital because I wanted the sleep apnea test done and I couldn't get one done. Um, saved for going to my friend dues who is asleep physiologists and saying, geez, can you come and help me please? Can we do a test? Um, we did that um, slightly against the roles

Speaker 3: (03:00)
at the hospital at the time, wasn't that, uh, we came back with severe sleep apnea with oxygen and then was at the worst point at around 70% during the night, which is pretty disastrous. So I'm going to talk to you today with uh, jeez about, um, sleep apnea, what it is, what you need to be aware of. And we're also going to go into a new cardiac system that is, that got there. That's going to be really interesting. So jeez, firstly, thank you for helping me back then. My pleasure. I don't know if my mum would be sitting here today. I'm healthy and well, if it wasn't for you coming in and doing a stake assessment, it's that important and this is why the subject is really important to me to get out there and to let people know about this. So just can you just tell me a little bit your background, um, and then you know, what is sleep apnea?

Speaker 3: (03:52)
Okay. My background is actually an anesthetic technology. I used to work as an anesthetic technician here at base. Um, and as the years went by I got approached by a colleague of mine yeah. And T surgeon David Tolbert who was on a real interest in sleep, Mmm. Apnea because of the upper airway and asked me if I could help him with regards to treatment. And that the relationship developed and I got really interested in this area because it's so fascinating that eventually we set up I primary based sleep clinic that then sort of spread a bit and there's quite a few around the country. Um, because sleep is something we all take for granted in some respects, but it actually has a significant role within normal health. Hmm. So that, that's, that's how I started in this field. I'm still doing it 18 years later.

Speaker 3: (04:47)
Yep. And you've, so you've had a series of clinics throughout New Zealand at one stage and um, yeah, sleep apnea is what is it defined as specific place? So w w how, you know, people hear this word but they don't often know what the heck it means. Okay. So sleep apnea is a condition that has pretty sure, I realize it basically pauses in breathing during sleep, uh, for a number of reasons. Um, it affects about two to 7% of the population. However, that's with moderate to severe. Um, basically, but what we talk about now is sleep disordered breathing because we know there's a range of respiratory sleep issues affecting the patient. So sleep apnea itself is fundamentally, you can tell, cause if you've got obstructive sleep apnea, which is the main one [inaudible] it's a classic symptom. So all sleep obstructive sleep apnea, but not everybody who shores has obstructive sleep apnea.

Speaker 3: (05:56)
Okay. So that's key. So snoring is, is like, um, a pain in a joint. If we are a runner or sports person, if you get pain in your neck, you don't tend to ignore it. Yeah. You want to know what's happening because it's an abnormal process, right? Shoring is an app, normal process. And as a symptom of something, it could be benign, it may not. So we actually say that up to about 20% of the population will suffer from pathological or issues related to snoring. And that's the key here. So if you snore to start, you really should just get it checked out. We know that snoring gives you a higher chance of developing high blood pressure. Hmm. Um, from there, high blood pressure can lead to other cardiac and physiological issues. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's where we start. Okay. The most common is obstructive sleep apnea.

Speaker 3: (06:57)
Then we move into things like central sleep apnea. That's what mum has. Yeah. Because basically if we see these conditions, there's lots of reasons why we'll see central sweep here. We see it in severe cardiac problems and basically it's a miscommunication where you just physically stopped breathing. So obstructive apnea is the, is the airwaves physically shutting off? Yeah. So you get this jerky movement of patients who have got it until they breathe. Central sleep apnea is a pause, just a stop in breathing. Wow. So they will be breathing quite normally. Then they stop, go silent. There's no effort to breathe nothing. Um, and you can see it for a number of reasons. In your mom's case, it was due to a stroke, uh, that caused her to stop breathing. But we see it in neurological conditions. We see it in change. Stokes breathing is a common cause of central apnea change.

Speaker 3: (07:58)
Stokes is a word that sort of worries me when I heard that. It's what we tend to see in the pre pre mortal issue. So just before people die, they go into this change. However, there's 31 reasons we see more, more that we can see, change, dehydration, heart conditions, all sorts of things because there's not, it's a metabolic condition. It's why we get changed up. So anything that can cause a metabolic issue can cause change steps. Yup. And this is this waxing and waning of, of the respiratory pattern. The center of a nice smooth process. This is what got a particular sound to it.

Speaker 3: (08:48)
It's usually, it's, it's a form of hyperventilation. She'll see the patient sort of get deeper and deeper, deeper, and then weighing off again and then flat. So people refer to it sometimes as like a death rattle. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a scary, scary way. And so that's, and so that's happens when you've got a central problem that can happen. Central sleep apnea can be caused by different Cheyne Stokes is one pot, one tile of central apnea. Some people just physiologically stop breathing. Yeah. Because of a stroke or a head injury, a neurological condition. Something in the brain that's been affected by the strokes, our blood supply to a particular gland or a particular part of, uh, of the primary. Primarily. Yeah. Neurological. Yeah. Primarily. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right, so that's two of them. Is there a, is there a third variation? There's a few other ones.

Speaker 3: (09:50)
We've got hyperventilation, which is, um, a reduction of breathing of at least 50% in the, in the volume of breath, but taking with a subsequent, um, reaction. So in other words, you know, your oxygen level starts to drop or you physiologically wake up. Yeah. Uh, hyperventilation in itself, I mean, everyone will stop breathing and the brief assert, so about two, about five times out, we're not going to stress too much about it from a risk perspective, but hyperventilation, we're seeing more and more because like obstructive sleep apnea, one of the main cause of that is weight. Obesity is, is, you know what I mean? Again, within healthcare, I know that people feel that we pushed away question a lot, but obesity with good is a significant health issue that we're not, we don't seem to be successfully addressing. Yep. So you've then got hyperventilation syndromes, you've got obesity hyperventilation syndrome that can be significant, uh, detrimental to long term health.

Speaker 3: (11:01)
Yeah. Okay. And this has seen a bit of a, um, you know, a circle because what's your, what's your obese and then you have this, then you'll get more obese because there's, there's a big, big connection between things like leptin levels and stuff that control appetite, especially in fragmentation. Yeah. So theoretically you mean the worst you sleep the hungry you are. Because at the end of the day, that's how we function as, as a survival mechanism, as a building. Yet, if we're feeling low on energy, we tend to eat to get fuel to feel energetic. Unfortunately, a lot of the foods that we might grate to when we're feeling like that tend to be the highest fat snacky type foods. So in a lot of cases, people who are, who are significantly overweight may not eat big meals, but they eat are very, but a lot of very small, high fat milk, which compounds the issue. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (12:01)
And that's done in Graham on as being a part of that equation. Yeah. So your satiation mechanisms aren't quite as good and of course when you, when you're not sleeping well, I mean there's, there is a whole lot of knock on effects, which I've talked about on a couple of episodes on the podcast. So it all starts to tie into to each other and has huge impacts on your, your mental health, your physical health, your brain, you know, mission, everything.

Speaker 3: (12:29)
Yeah. Well what we tend to see in people who to be, cause that's what we're really pushing her obstructive sleep apnea. These patients will first of all go to bed. They'll then start to sleep, start to snore. So sleep in itself. It's a very complex process. People always think you're awake, you're asleep. That's it. It's not. We talk, we talk in w we talk about sleep architecture, how your sleep is structured. So for the first seven minutes or so stage one sleep, that's the time you're getting comfortable, your eyes are closed. It's not true sleep. It's that like pre sweet sort of process. Then then we're supposed to drop into stage two, which is what we define as true sleep is when you actually go to sleep physiologically things start to settle down. You're hearing still going so you can still be erased at that stage and we spend 20 to 25 minutes there and then we move into what we call Delta wave sleep stages for him. When the brain goes into that slow wavy pattern, so you've basically got an inactive mind instill a veritable active body so you can still Twitch and stop after about 90 minutes of these processes you then stack and drop into what is REM sleep,

Speaker 2: (13:44)
which is that

Speaker 3: (13:46)
dream fell asleep. Yeah. Which is very, very important within a human, so like, and then we just cycle through that every 90 minutes or so. So you get to have about five, six, seven periods of REM during the night. What we tend to see in people with obstructive sleep apnea is that they'll start to snore at stage one too. Stages three four they'll start to obstruct. Once they stopped breathing, about six seconds later, their oxygen levels start to drop. We then get this sympathetic nerve activation that causes them to physiologically wake up to their heart, beats faster, that blood pressure goes up. Um, and it brings them back to a stage where the obstruction disappears, which may be level one, level two, but that Reiki did deep sleep. And then a lot of cases that these patients don't get true REM periods, pure sleep architecture.

Speaker 3: (14:43)
It's completely fragmented. And we're talking, and we, I've seen people stop breathing, I mean over a hundred times an hour, which means is that our heart rate variability is phenomenal during the night. So in effect, these people are working harder to sleep, to stay awake. So of course, but the body's a learning mechanism, it starts to say, well, I'm burning more energy doing this than I am by just staying awake. So people tend to start to develop this really bad sleep pattern where they can't get to sleep properly or they wake up frequently during the night. So you mean, you mean sleep is really important for things like growth hormone production, cortisol productions, all of these things. Your adrenals have hormones. They have very poor short term memory, their fatigue, blood pressure tends to be high and you mean eventually things are going to shut off.

Speaker 3: (15:40)
Yeah. And, and your health is going to seriously be a farrier, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And this is, this is so it's so important and just not, you know, all the sort of stuff needs to be taught at school. So what happens in the sleep process? Cause we all just fake. We go to bed and we go to sleep. You know, we don't know about deep sleep and REM sleep and in the life stages of sleep and how it, how it actually affects our physiology the next day and how our brain function isn't going to work. And what about the, I read a study recently on the brainwashing. Yeah. Function that happens when we're in asleep and that the brain shrinks. You're talking about, yeah. You're talking about amyloid. Cool. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 3: (16:24)
Which is good when we're young because I think, I mean, this is getting into real neurophysiology. So, excuse me. So basically when you're growing or developing synopsis, it sits with that neuro logical function. Mmm. It's a, it's a byproduct of metabolism, of neurophysiological by metabolism and needs to be washed out. Um, which tends to happen during sleep while you were asleep and we beat her is dispersed ready for the next day. So it washes out the break. Yeah. Yep. It's a brainwash. That's what they're calling it. Yeah. They flush it out. Yep. And is it important a protein, but it flushes out all the and the rent. However, what we find sleep apnea patients or insomnia patients and where is that? I don't fully do they, that's why they wake up feeling groggy. Yeah. Yeah. Confused sometimes. Um, we noticed in outside of ms patients that there is a significant higher level within Sam or in place. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that is an important function as well. And we can see that not just in sleep pattern. We can see that in insomniacs and people. Wow. Wow. That is fascinating because if we not washing out those plaques every day and getting rid of them as that cause they build up when we're awake, from what I understand, we're functioning. Yeah. It starts to up over time. And this,

Speaker 2: (17:50)
you know, over a period of 20 years can lead to where they're suggesting it can lead to Alzheimer's. Early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long side process. So if we can get it early, we can, we can stop that process happening. Um, and this is really, this is the whole point of this conversation is, is to get people to be aware of what are the signs of sleep apnea, what are the things that are going to happen when you're asleep as off. Um, and what we can do about it. Um, uh, you know, we referred, um, just a bit earlier to mum's story. Um, and mum was in the hospital, excuse me, um, for three months and she'd been in Wellington, uh, in the acute phase and the ICU and then in the neurological ward down the air and she'd been on supplemental oxygen.

Speaker 2: (18:36)
Um, when, when she came back through to new Poloma, she was taken off of supplemental oxygen cause she was now stabilized if you like. Um, and I noticed that she was gone from terrible to really, really terrible. Like there was hardly any higher function going on at all. Um, and that's when my brain started to tick over and you know, my history with, you know, um, training at altitude and data races at altitude and I'd seen like things like she had a bacteria in the mouth that was just doing gross, horrible things. Yeah. And that was a really a signal to me like, Hmm. Bacteria, lack of oxygen. Uh, jeez. Sleep apnea basically was the connection that I made there. Um, oxygen in the body, you know, and lack of oxygen causes bacteria to spread and, and proliferate. Um, so it's really, really important that we, we address this. This is not something we should be putting off. So you is inherit in your clinics, you would do the sleep assessment on people, which is an overnight procedure or a test.

Speaker 2: (19:44)
Then if someone comes back with sleep apnea, they get a C-PAP machine? Well, it depends, right? So first of all, the key to anyone as to acknowledge that they have sleep patient. So the reason we can tell people who have sleep issues is people always say, you're mean I have sleep problem, but during the day they still function. Normally people with a true sleep problem don't function so well. So that constantly fatigued. Yeah. Tired, short term memory, it's usually quite poor because they're not dreaming. And part of the process of dreaming is the burn information to a hard drive if you like. So if you're not dreaming, you're not retain that information. So short term memory tends to disappear. There's petite. Quite often they're slightly on the higher. So those are the key things. Now I definitely, yeah, if you're not snoring, it's not obstructive sleep apnea, but it could be upper airways resistance syndrome or something like that. So in other words, you're having difficulty breathing during the night.

Speaker 3: (20:47)
People often wake up for headaches. They often wake up during the night,

Speaker 3: (20:51)
um, maybe once or twice. Um, so these are the common symptoms we see meet. But 70% of most GP consults will involve the word fatigue. Tired, no energy. Yeah. So that should be your key. If you're feeling tired during the day, most people come by their GPS because the GPS are becoming more and more aware of sleep specific. Um, because we spend one third of the day doing it. Yeah. Um, we would then go through a simple questionnaire like you're tired and scale Epworth sleepiness score is that, is that common tired and scale that we use to address how try it or how it affected people. And this involves eight simple questions about the ability to fall asleep doing certain things. And I would have run this through with Uma and basically it's things like if you sat reading a book, what's your chance of falling asleep? Yeah. Not possible. Moderate be high or high or sitting at traffic lights. Um, you mean what's the chances of you falling asleep? And believe it or not, there are people who want to positively, hi. Oh God. Every question. I remember one person telling me in Oxford, he said, I said, yeah, I mean, it's not very good if you're falling asleep at traffic lights. And he said, yeah, we can, we can sit for 20 minutes to traffic lights. So maybe we need to readdress it so that we're sleeping.

Speaker 3: (22:17)
Then we would probably carry out for most people who complain of sleep. The first thing I think to do would be to carry out a very simple respiratory sleep study and there's a couple of types you can do at home. There's all this imagery which surely looks up to gin levels during your sleep and that's a little clip that you wear on your finger, touched with a little monitor, some of wireless, they go on the watches and that's the simplest way and it has a very good correlation to sleep apnea so we can use it as a very simple cheap test. Yeah. As an a level three sleep study, which looks at as a thoracic efforts. So we're looking for specific obstructive central events or under breathing with a nasal cannula, an oxygen saturation monitor, and they can be done at home. Yeah, every simple test I can give us really detailed information, but level two sleep studies is when you're getting into neurophysiology side of sleep.

Speaker 3: (23:16)
Now 96% of sleep disorders. Alright. There were spiritually, mostly the very small percentage are the neurological disorders that we see that REM behavior disorders, the narcolepsy's, all of those more complex disease States that really require much higher levels of Oh, acuity and testing. Right. But the majority, and that's a medicine what we're supposed to address, the majority of patients can be, can be looked at from a respiratory. Yep. Um, once we get a test, we can then identify the severity of any underlying respiratory problem. No. Talk about sleep. Obstructive sleep apnea, which is where we get airway physically closes during the night. Yep. We talk about mild, moderate, severe. Yeah. Mine is any and vent above five to 15 events. Then we talk about moderate, which is 15 to 30 events an hour and anything over 30 we talk about severe. Yeah. This scale is really more focused on funding of therapies.

Speaker 3: (24:27)
Yeah. It's on impact of disease. That's terrible. Well, we know that people with certain tend to have a higher risk morbidity, mortality, but we also know that people with moderate with other pathology, awesome have significant risks. But more and more evidence is saying that if you don't treat the mild, they will become exactly there. Related to it is at the bottom of the cleft problem that we have. It's like fun. It always comes down to funding not how healthy you're going to be, but you'll be basically that's sleep apnea. Yep. Obstructive sleep apnea, obstructive sleep apnea can't be treated. Yeah. That's the good thing. What we talk about is things like conservative measures. Conservative measures are always going weight loss. Yeah. Fitness levels. Yep. Cause obviously the fitter you are just sending you out in the majority of cases. Yes. Um, so those are, those are simple things you can do to help.

Speaker 3: (25:40)
However the research is not green. Yup. Yup. For ag. And then we're moving more into the surgical options. Obviously you've got the weight related surgery, which is very difficult. Very Patrick. Yeah. To get, quite often we look at the upper airway as being part of dish mechanism that's causing the issue finish things like the obvious nasal deviations that we can. But you can see the obvious ones from rugby Plains, but obviously there are also, there's also subtle deviations. Then there's things within the knees or pathway that can cause problems. Their adenoids leaving you. Now tonsils is a controversial area in the area of sleep medicine. Yep. Because tonsils or something that's roughly what disappears. We get, Oh yeah, yeah. Um, however, saying that it would be the conversations I have with GPS about this is quite interesting because being in this, but I look at tonsils and everybody, well look at the back of the throat cause I'm looking at what we call a modern putty index, which is how far back the larynx and the size of the tongue.

Speaker 3: (26:54)
Um, but also I'm looking at tonsils and quite frequently you'll see extremely large asymptomatic in males predominantly. Wow. So if you've got tonsils that are kissing but asymptomatic, which means you don't get tonsillitis as such, then they're going to be causing an issue. Yeah, sometimes. Yep. Yes. Well in children now for sleep disorders. Um, the first line of therapy, children who might snort snoring to all the parents out there in children is not, it's not cute. It's not cute. And noise from a child while they sleep, um, is not cute cause they're supposed to be perfect breathers. Yup. But the first line of therapy, now children, but snoring or anything like that, just taking out there, don't bother with sleep studies. They just take out the tonsils and the admins, which in a significant number of cases can improve it. And there was a study out of the States where they took, uh, patients, children diagnosed with ADHD, trying to remember the study.

Speaker 3: (27:56)
Yep. And what they did was, uh, they took this group of patients were all treated, remove tonsils and adenoids. And what they found was that 50% of them, I think it was 50% ended up being taken off that Ritalin medication because it was hype. Children react differently to tiredness than adults. We get, we get authentic, we get children get hyperactive when they're tired. And we've seen that because everyone who knows your kids and then they crash. Yeah, exactly. Cause what they are is tired. Yeah. So when they get tired they send them like they run around.

Speaker 3: (28:33)
So surgery, surgery can help in some cases with obvious deformities. Um, success rate surgery for sleep apnea in the mild to moderate, probably about 63%. Wow. And surgery like anything carries Chris from an aesthetics from the surgery itself. So it's not a guaranteed cure. Then we're moving into things like most guides, uh, mandibular splints that designed the whole, the jewel in a prominent position pulling the, pulling the tunnel way from the back of the throat because as you fall asleep, nobody can physically swallow that up. Yeah. But their tonnes can drop back and include the airway. That's why in recess we pull the jaw forward. If you pull the jaw forward, your pull the tongue away from the back of the truck making that larger space. Monday splints can work very well. Um, there's different types of over the cancer, not so successful, but one is designed by a specialist orthodontist of which there are a number now in the country, um, can have an 80 plus percent success rate.

Speaker 3: (29:39)
That can be very good, but I probably won't be able to do that work very well. Okay. Yeah. Um, for more mild cases and some moderates, there's a thing called microvalve, Serafin therapies, Sarah events. These are the things you stick a little plastic over your nose and what they do is you breathe in normally through lots of holes, but as you breathe through your nose, lots of the valves closed down and one valve remains open. So you get like a, what we call a valve silver effect, like blowing through your nose and that back pressure keeps the airway splinted open. Wow. So it's a physiological form of C-PAP, which is what, yeah. Yeah. What's his, what mom's got like a sticking plaster that you see some athletes or is it on the inside? The strips on the outside. I for anatomical for collapse where the AOS actually collapse.

Speaker 3: (30:45)
So those things pull the nose. I was slightly out. These things stick over the, there's over the holes here. Oh yeah. That there. Interesting to work with. Very interesting feeling. But they can work. Probably don't use that run ongoing costs. You've got to use them every day. If you don't use them, it comes back. Yeah. So they're quite expensive. Right. But as an alternative to seatbelt, there's also this tummy device that don't think we turn the stabilizing device, the TST, very bizarre looking device that basically works upon the fact that if your tongue falls back, you pull your tongue forward. Now in the old days, very old days of anesthesia, we used to have a thing called a tongue clip, but we could collect the tongue, pull it out to open up the airway. Um, we've moved on from there. This is a TSD is like a suction device that you squeeze, stick your tongue in and it sucks your tongue forward.

Speaker 3: (31:47)
Yup. They read it to be cheap. Some people swear by them. I've tried most of these things. I couldn't sleep with it. This is the, it isn't, but it is an option. It is an option to try the only thing guaranteed to reverse sleep apnea. Yeah. Or it is what we call continuous positive airway pressure. Yup. And basically in simple terms is a pneumatic splint, so it blows air into the airway via either a nasal mask or a full face mask. Yup. While you're asleep, um, you can get very little cushions now that you wear like oxygen, things that can also be used for this machine. Um, and that blows air in. So when you breathe, you're breathing out against pressure so that then hold the airway open. Yeah. It's a new magic process. So you breathe in and out again to this flow or like that if you can wear it is guaranteed to reverse obstructive sleep apnea.

Speaker 3: (32:55)
Yeah, it's gold standard for therapy. And interestingly enough, it's only been around since about 1982 so relatively new therapy, but is now widely used worldwide for, that's the one that mum's got. Um, and she has to wear it every night and all night. Um, and you know, it's quite an invasive thing to have on. It's not pleasant for her. Um, having the central, uh, sleep apnea is guaranteed in that case? Like with obstructive or is it a bit, a bit more, it really depends upon that the, the, the reasoning behind the central event. Yeah. Um, in most cases it can improve it to an extent that it's okay. Um, in some cases it doesn't, but we stop an obstructive component. It proves your physiology changed to make the change they him and go away. There are some machines that are specifically designed to treat certain types of breathing, like Cheyne Stokes, the ASB system.

Speaker 3: (34:03)
Yeah. That can only be used. There are certain, a very small group of patients who can't use ASP because there's a higher risk of problems. Right. Like with any therapy, there's always risks. CPR tends to be generally safe if used appropriately in the right patients. And there are then machines that will provide backup. Correct. So if the machine senses that you're not breathing, it doesn't ventilate you, but it reminds you to take a breath. Yep. So we can use things called by levels or bilateral S T's with, with a minimum respiratory REM required. Yeah. So it will, it will. If you stop breathing, it will cook you with air to say take a breath. Is it the machine that mum's got? You know, because it regulates when she's breathing it's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then when she stops breathing or you hear the machine crank up, yeah, you might, your mom's on auto type ventilate auto sheet. We'll have backup, right? Yeah. Right. And this is similar to what I've been delayed heroes in the hospital and not flight.

Speaker 3: (35:17)
C-PAP is not ventilation. C-PAP. C-PAP is stopping a reverse vacuum cleaner to your nose and away you go. It's, it's, it's helping. It's not breathing for you. It's like a walking stick. It's making your breathing more effective than if you weren't using it. I know ventilator is physically breathing for you. Now there are two types of ventilator says invasive ventilation. Well there's noninvasive ventilation. Noninvasive ventilation is legacy pap, but basically that the pressures are split. So you breathe in at one pressure and you breathe out at another pressure. Yep. And there is a, that can be a backup rate added to that. So that's, that's term. There's noninvasive ventilation. Those are the ones we tend to see used on patients with hyperventilation syndrome or severely large patient who cannot tolerate time levels of C-PAP. Breathing against the pressure of 10 centimeters may not be as bad, but the minute you start to get to 60 18 prep coming sent to me is a pressure that's a hurricane blowing, you know, so then we need to look at how we change. So we have an inspiratory pressure pressure, noninvasive ventilation. So in any form of respiratory failure, which is the end game of some disease States, they work really, really well. And it's becoming more and more used as opposed to inter invasive ventilation in a lot of cases. Now I've just read some reports out covert, they're starting to look at noninvasive ventilation as an alternative, right? Probably with noninvasive ventilation.

Speaker 3: (37:04)
Oh yeah. So you've gotta be really tough and the other ventilator, no, see, perhaps not recommended covert patients anyway, even though it's starting to be used as an alternative, but needs to be used very carefully. And we've got, um, uh, I've been looking at the research. Of course, Jason and I had a hyperbaric oxygen clinic, which we opened up to mum's story. Um, but the hyperbaric and covert, um, it's showing promising results. Uh, I, I saw, I saw that, yeah. The issue with coach, we're in the infancy of a disease state. We don't know what the longterm benefits, risks, outcomes next 10 years, 20 years of research is going to be around the last three. But hell's happened to us. So we keep on sleep apnea.

Speaker 3: (38:07)
Yeah, very true. But yeah, so, so, so treatment for sleep apnea with with C-PAP is very, very common. It's effective. Um, we really started to look at muscle diseases well because what we noticed with patients with mild disease, so they can still suffer all the same as severe disease. They can still be cycling, hypertensive or control. They can still be difficult to control diabetics. They can still suffer extreme daytime tiredness, um, and things like that. So, so C-PAP can be used as a management tool from mold too severe. Yep. So we were one of the first groups that probably made it more available to the mind. Yeah. Cases because in our opinion, the benefits fired out, weighed and the risks associated with treatment and at the end of the day, every therapy of any kind should be the decision that the patient not absolutely.

Speaker 3: (39:10)
Depending on what that treatment is, of course, and something like that. I don't see very low risk with a high reward in medicine. That's what we're looking. Is there any difference between when you were, say I'm now reading a sleep thing study last week is sleeping on your side versus sleeping on your back and can you actually sleep, and this is a question after I read that I was on your back all the time because of the sleep app machine. Is she actually able to sleep on the side? Yeah, of course she is. The machine she has got will automatically adjust for any change impression, so it will go up or down as required. Yeah. That's the benefits of that type of machine that that algorithm look. Positional sleep. Yes. You can talk to any partner who has suffered a partner who snores after a glass of wine or beer or whatever.

Speaker 3: (40:05)
We always poke them to roll them onto their site. Positional treatment for snoring can work and it's one of the conservative methods we recommend you. I mean there are very fancy machines are designed to be worn around the neck. Um, tell it when you were starting to. Sure. And then it plus as you would look for the electric shops to turn you on your side. Wow. The, the, the most practical tool you've got for positional sleep apnea is what your grandmother would have said, which is show up button in the back of your pajamas or get a tennis ball with a loop of elastic. Thread it through. I'm wearing like a backpack and that physiologically keep you on your side. There's no doubt that we can see. So obviously Pat on the back because all this depression is pushing down on their side. All that is moved away from, especially on the left side. Wow. If you turn onto your left, it's easier to breathe. That's why in the recovery position we turn people to their left. Wow.

Speaker 3: (41:09)
Pressure on their, on their venous return helps improve blood pressure, but it also moves and everything away from, from where your track here. So, um, you know, I, I sleep on my side but when I sleep on my left I can always feel my own heartbeat and then I always get worried. I'm putting pressure on my heart on the other side. If anything, if anything, probably be more on the right cause that's why we talk about pregnant women with debt gravid uterus. If you, if you lay on your side, that weight comes on to the vena cave on the right side. So actually restricts blood flow, especially return. Yeah. So your blood pressure theoretically needs to be higher. So in medicine we tend to turn people onto their left side and especially pregnant, when will we say light his left side. Great tap. Positional sleep can work very, very well in those people who are purely shorts.

Speaker 3: (42:09)
Yep. Yeah. It makes slightly improved sleep apnea, but because of all the other factors involved, it's not always there. Okay. But a sleep study, you can tell us that because part of the sleep study told us which side the patient is sleeping on when is happening. Yep. And we can, we can see that so we can recommend position therapy. What about like, um, I know it was several and you probably have a, have a crack at me for talking about him on the phone. Guys. I, he, he sits on his back and he sleeps on the couch. He wants to sit. I sit him up higher with pillows, um, in behind them and then a snoring is a lot less. Yeah, if you laying flat, yeah, it's okay to raise the head of the bedside. If you get a raise, the head of the bed, it's always been to put a pillow under the mattress as opposed to empty your head because the biggest problem is it a head forward and you make this more obstructive. Oh, if you want to put it in the yourself and put it in the shoulders, your headsets slightly flat or sniffing the morning air. This is the position we used to call it an anesthesia. So their head is flushed back, straightens the airway and it's easier to temporary sleeping in a chair. It's not a cool thing because you're not going to, you're not going to sleep, you're not going to sleep as well. Especially in patients who let's say have respiratory problems COPT they've got what we call overlap syndrome, so they've got sleep apnea.

Speaker 3: (43:42)
They tend to sleep in chess cause they feel they can breathe each year. The problem is is it's not very good for you from a health perspective and sleeping setup because of venous return, pressure on the kidneys and the heart. Other things probably blood flow to the brain. Yeah. Yeah. So if, if people are sleeping checks because we find it easier to sleep than they really need to be assessed to find out. I've got another fatal on my hands coming up. I can say yes for a number of reasons. Sleep apnea. Interestingly enough, we talked about it being related to obesity and other disease States, but it's also predominantly higher in men than women until about the age of 50. So postmenopausal women trach it to men very fast and it tends to be the effects of, it tends to be than what we see on men.

Speaker 3: (44:33)
Um, is that the weight gain side of what happens is because of the loss of certain hormones in postmenopausal women, especially around respiratory issues, um, we tend to see more in Mali, men especially but also higher percentage. So there is a ethnic link, we're not sure if that's because of body habitus to that. So the shape of the body and the upper airway rather than that, it just isn't working out, whether it's the increased weight, shorter neck, things like that. So yeah, so you mean there is, there should be a definite and I think there is a definite push within modem to check sleep apnea. If you've ever been onto a Mariah, not a pilot in a positive way. So you want me to probably one of the best places to have a sleep person would be on my mind very quickly identify and this is why, you know, sharing this sort of information so that people can directly, because it's with all, you know, all the health stuff that I talk about.

Speaker 3: (45:40)
Um, you know, it's being informed. It's knowing that the stuff is out there. It's being aware that there is a, perhaps a problem that needs to be checked as the first line of getting people in the door. You mean if you want to look statistically around research, you know what I mean? You ask three times more likely to have a stroke. If you have sleep pap, you're three times more likely to die. If you have sleep apnea, you're significantly more likely to develop diabetes. If you have sleep or especially what we call uncontrolled diabetes, you're more likely to develop heart problems, more likely to develop respiratory problems. I mean, we're talking significant percentages. If you look at something like what we call label hypertension, so blood pressure that is difficult to control. 80% of patients with difficult to control blood pressure will have some varying levels of sleep.

Speaker 3: (46:29)
Disordered breathing. Yup. 55% of cardiac patients, especially at S patients will have a compending or causative sleep disordered breathing. Yep. So the numbers start to stack up more and more and more. We're looking at nighttime physiology as a D as a predictor for daytime, especially around things like blood pressure. 24 hour blood pressure now is something that's becoming standard practice because we've historically treated blood pressure on one off. Yeah. Precious. Yeah. When we're noticing that nocturnal hypertension is a better predictor of cardiovascular mortality and morbidity than daytime blood pressure. Wow. So more and more GPS now are moving towards 24 hour blood pressure. You know, you go to your GP and he asked for it.

Speaker 3: (47:23)
Yet there's a few GPS in town who will do 24 hours. Most of the GPS will refer into somewhere like this where we were doing quite a few 24 hour blood pressures and Holter monitoring. Because my area of special interest has always been the impact of sleep on cardiovascular disease or on on cardiac health, which was why I've sort of moved into that sideways, into more cardio-respiratory physiology than I was sleep. So tell us about, a little bit about the clinic that you're in now. Fast based solutions, which is based in your Plymouth. If anybody wants to talk to jazz and come and see you guys. What is it that you do? You showed me a machine before that you can actually wear. Yeah. So basically we moved sideways and I teamed up with two other guys. Mike Maxim is a cardiac physiologist and Alan Thompson, who's a, who's an anesthetic technologist, we looked at what we could provide to primary care as a, as a midway step between primary medical care and secondary medical care.

Speaker 3: (48:26)
So we sort of set out to say, wow, we can bride these tests a lot faster probably because we have less restrictive process. Yep. Um, and so we're doing things like Holter monitoring. Holter monitoring is monitoring the heart over 24, 48, seven day period depending on, on what we're looking for and basically monitors cardiac speak to the variation. So it's great for identifying an arrhythmias. This is ASA Fletcher, all of those conditions. Uh, atrial fibrillation is something we're seeing more and more, um, potentially a significantly life threatening condition if not picked up and manage because of the increased risk of stroke and things. Um, so we brought in more and also we're seeing a higher demand from people wearing wearable technology who have started to notice that happy changing, going faster, slightly out to be, yeah, because they're exerting and it causes concern. And part of medicine is to address concerns and fear.

Speaker 3: (49:38)
So we do, we do Holter monitoring. So we're using small halted co monitors that allow us to monitor patients in a more free fashion. The old ones used to have lots of wires that restrict things. These things you can run cycle. So they're great for people who are active because that's where they notice the problem. So we can monitor the patient in the situation in which they noticed that problem. It's a lot more effective. The older, bigger ones are cumbersome. So you can't run in them cycles when you can with these. Yep. So it allows us to monitor patients or effectively, and we can even do cardiac ones on there so we can get really tiny patches. So we do those, we do exercise tolerance testing to check for narrowing the vessels. So it's a a test that you run on a treadmill and we'd look at your ECG 12 lead ECG. So quite in depth in ECG while you're doing it. Um, would you ambulatory blood pressure, 24 hour monitoring spiral Metairie cause that forms part of the cardiac paradox. You know what I mean? You talk about cardio respiratory disease cause they both obviously work together and they affect each other. Yeah. So that's what we're doing here. We're doing more direct to patient management.

Speaker 2: (50:58)
Are you working with athletes?

Speaker 3: (51:03)
We get a lot of athletes come through because they're the ones who, who noticed a change. Yeah. And they just want to be reassured that what they're feeling is not a problem, which is fine. Yeah. Optimize performance. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (51:21)
Yeah. A lot of, um, uh, I've got a few colleagues, you know, I've been doing, you know, ultra marathon stuff for years and they've got

Speaker 3: (51:29)
over-sized carts, um, as a result. Okay. Yeah. That's exercise induced cardiomyopathy. Yeah. Um, it's not very common, but we do see it and some patients who've been exercising to an extremist for long periods, any muscle that you can overwork can become hypertrophic. You know what I mean? That's the whole point of bodybuilding damaging tear muscle to develop definition. And we see that in things like guilt, um, and insomniacs would that, but their cortisol, they're a highly stressed person who can get adrenal atrophy, atrophy, hypertrophy from that because you're constantly kicking out high levels of cortisol. Why they can't sleep and it's all at the wrong time of day. So you mean that's, yeah. Exercise-induced Caribbean cardiac conditions. They're not common, but there's some that we can check for. Yeah. Probably more common amongst people are hanging out with,

Speaker 2: (52:39)
you know, it's not common. I don't have it. Um, but I, yeah, my wife's husband used to have that problem. Um, been exercising for just, you know, huge amounts for many, many years. Um, and it's mostly mean isn't it? Then

Speaker 3: (52:53)
it is mostly men, mostly men that they're giving. It's like with rugby players in that it'd be interesting to look at their sleep at the same time. Yeah. Because that's why we've moved this way. Cause sleep hearts, lungs all work together for good or a bad reason.

Speaker 2: (53:11)
Yeah. I mean this is something that I've been trying to educate people on. You know, the difference between um, you know, like functional medicine and naturopathic medicine and the need for more integrated as it were, more integrated. Look at the whole person and not just, we here in lines near in the hat near you, study the brain and study the kidneys. But having people make can look at the whole sort of system or systems within the body that can really take a more holistic or overlooking approach.

Speaker 3: (53:41)
Yeah. Look, I think you mean one of the issues we face in any form of health care is the fragmentation of the system. And that we are so busy these days that predominantly we only look at the field in which we are so much. Whereas you, I mean you sit at the GP level, you've got to try and work out. So you're a policeman if you like, or a police person trying to work out which way you need to go. So it's very difficult when you send someone, let's say for a heart test because you think it's a cardiac issue and the test comes back, not a cardiac issue, but that doesn't help you. All it's told you is what we're trying to develop probably more so here is to look at the patient that's been referred for a heart problem and maybe just looking a bit wider and saying, well look, if it's, if it's not your heart, we should be looking at your sleep or if it's not your sleep, we should be looking at other physiology. Um, and trying to give a more packaged answer to provide the same. Well, Nope, we've done a Holter. It's fine. However they mentioned they should and we noticed that they have.

Speaker 2: (54:52)
Yep. Sort of overview a little bit wider. I mean obviously you can't be an expert in the mechanics of the feet at the same time as being doing what you're doing, but you know it,

Speaker 3: (55:05)
it's similar. It used to occur I think long time ago when we run much smaller population, people could have more time as a specialist to look at all areas healthcare, but obviously as, as the health system that was invented back then didn't take into account that would be a population of 5 million with significant ability to study more areas of healthcare. So a lot of the people who are in specialties are just overwhelmed with that specialty. And what we'll probably need to be doing more of is having a step that allows people to look more broadly house. And that may include, as you said, homeopathic or alternate providers because my treatment to just purely disease, most practitioners I think health or otherwise would agree with that, that everything should be more patient focused as opposed to outcome.

Speaker 2: (56:03)
It's really important to have educational programs like this one because it does take the pressure off the GP knowing everything about everything. If you're aware of what's out there, what could possibly be going on and some of the, you know, sort of just, um, you know, comorbidities that can exist. You know, like I'm doing a brain radio rehabilitation course I'm doing at the moment, um, to help people. And the, the, the interrelatedness from whether it's looking, it's not a good word, but you know what I mean. Um, from brain injury and hormones or adrenal insufficiency and hypertrophy, tourism and thyroids, um, they can all really be affected through brain injury. Um, and then, um, the knock on effects of those and the signs and symptoms and things that I always look at within the course. I'm building out what's the foundational aspects of good health, you know, some of the basics around hydration and nutrition and, um, sleep. Um, and then looking at the next layer to be introduced because there's no use me giving you or giving you, uh, telling you to go and have a hyperbaric session,

Speaker 3: (57:15)
which will help your brain,

Speaker 2: (57:16)
which we know has beneficial things for neurological problems when you're eating fish and chips every night. [inaudible] you know, got, I've got some underlying other problems and not exercising and not doing the other pieces of the puzzle. So we need to have, um, an approach that looks at how do I build some foundation with health basics for status as well as the dressing, the actual no problem

Speaker 3: (57:40)
that we've got on top of that. Yeah. Yeah. You mean, I think you mean if I can say that it's a key to what we've been talking about is, is, is we take what happens during the day very seriously, but health should be a wider conversation. Human sleep is important. Not every reason you can sleep is insomnia. Yeah. So tablets don't always fix sleep issues. They're a great tool and it can actually be more problematic than the issue. So that's the main thing. It's the snoring is not good. If I could get that point across. Yes. And if, if you don't think you sleep well, which is probably majority of population, just check it out.

Speaker 3: (58:28)
I'm sorry, I probably sounded a bit garbled. But sleep is such a few, Gerry, to try and look at sleep in its entirety is, is quite a difficult area. I mean, the simple ones are asleep, happier snoring, tiredness during the day, no matter how old you ask, snoring is not good. Yeah. As a matter whether you're male, female, adult kids, get it checked. And it's a simple case of just talking to your, your practitioner, especially if you've got chronic conditions. Um, and, and, and look at your sleep health as, as importantly as you do your daytime health. That's probably a key.

Speaker 2: (59:07)
That's a key takeaway. And I think, you know, go and get yourself a seat. Go and find out if you, if you think you have a problem, uh, if someone, you know, has had a stroke. Um, I mean, I, I, I think it should be standard practice for everybody who's had a injury to get some sort of sleep assessment done at some level. Um, you know, I'm, I'm absolutely convinced my mum would, wouldn't be here if we hadn't done that. And then subsequently also hyperbaric was a key factor in her success. Um, so obviously very passionate about sharing this message today. Um, jeez, just as we wrap up, um, so we've talked, we've given people a couple of takeaways, you know, and if they're snoring through something about it, if you, if you're feeling absolutely in the gutter, uh, and not get a good night's sleep, if you are waking up a number of times, uh, we've seen about sleeping on the side, it's on the left side is, is, is really ideal.

Speaker 2: (59:59)
Weight loss is really important. If you're obese, you need to be taking this seriously. Seriously. There's a lot of comorbidities that they come along with having sleep apnea and it can be a bit of a, what do you call it, a circle that leaves a vicious circle that leads into each other. Um, so I think that's some really, really key takeaways. And from the cardiac perspective, I'm very keen to come and check out what, what you guys are doing there. It's a new clinic. Um, and um, relay that back as well. Um, I think, uh, having these new facilities and this new technology available to us is just absolutely awesome. Um, and there's so many great things happening in so many different areas of medicine that we, you know, just sharing a bit of information about it is really key. So if anybody wants to reach out to you at the clinic, we can, they find you guys.

Speaker 3: (01:00:52)
Okay. So, yeah, I mean you can do the usual webpage, www fast pace solutions.co. Dot. NZ. Um, you can call it, we do have a phone number, but as you notice that,

Speaker 2: (01:01:06)
so I'll put that in the, in the show notes so people can reach out.

Speaker 3: (01:01:10)
We're available on Google. Most of the GPS in turn know where we are as do the specialists at the hospital because we're obviously working very closely with the hospital supporting us. So that's really good. Um, with regards to your mom, I just like to say, I mean from a medical perspective, I'm pretty stunned at the way your mom's recovering. I, I, I have to sort of put my hand on my heart as a medical person when I first went through with your eyes. Yeah. I wasn't positive, but it's not purely that the sleep, why does he like that? I've got to acknowledge that what you and your family put in to that was phenomenal. Yeah, it really works. Um, and I think you need to take a little bit more credit with you and your boys, your brothers. It gave you that a reason to come and do my garden, which was awesome. Excellent. I tell him to give me a call anytime. Look. Yeah. So do, do take some credit for that. It wasn't a medical outcome. It was

Speaker 2: (01:02:15)
faceted approach. And you know, I always look at the silver linings and things. Geez. And when I, when I went through this horrible situation with mum, there are people like you and others who came out of the woodwork and all gave me their expertise in that area that I was searching and I was hungry for help and information. And that having that open mindedness and being able to research and I continue to do it has now lead to a complete new profession. You know, um, it's interesting where you end up in a, in a book that I hope is gonna, uh, empower other people to fight like crazy. I mean there was, you know, we weren't given no hope from, from the hospital. We would tell her, put her in a rest home and she won't be with us for very long. And um, you know, mum is getting stronger still today.

Speaker 2: (01:03:02)
Every day she's improving. Like it's, it's quite, uh, at the age of 78. And you know, she had her a few, you know, underlying issues. Obviously that's why she had the aneurysm and the stroke. Um, and I still met her with her on the nutrition side of things, but, um, on the daily police on there. But now she's, you know, fully got a full driver's license. She's fully independent. The last thing, last week, she's now got, she's now even able to put her own shoes on, which was the last thing because the flexibility of course was really poor. She's now even managed to do that. She's doing weights every day in the garage with me at the moment, cause we can't go to the gym and she's, she's a little miracle. But she, you know, I'm not, uh, I'm the, I'm not the one in the million and mum's not the one in the million. What's, what is different about this case is the relentlessness of keeping going and I'm looking for answers outside of the,

Speaker 3: (01:04:03)
you mean again, I think you should take credit cause I think sometimes using the term miracle, it would suggest the divine intervention. This was a determination of farmer that's, uh, to get a positive outcome. It shows us sometimes that we just need to step back and engage more with the wider family unit. Yeah. Do take some credit please. You,

Speaker 2: (01:04:29)
it really means a lot coming from you because again, without your expertise and bring in the, in the hyperbaric that that we did as a clinic together, which was difficult times and a hard thing. But I was different to get this therapy out there into the world. And you know, we did that and we have made more people aware and, um, people are still coming to me every day to learn about hyperbaric. So, you know, we did our job there. Um, and it is, it has there, you know, there was beautiful things that have come out of a tragedy and that's the way I see everything in life now is to try and say, well, where's the learning? So even in this covert situation that we're all finding ourselves in and the chaos it is about, um, we cannot learn something out of this. What can I benefit from this? How can society benefit this? I gonna come in and change, but we got to come out stronger. If we have that mindset. Yeah, totally agree. Thank you so much for everything, for helping me all along the way and um, I can't wait to come down and see your new clinic. No, just give me a shout when you're ready. Fantastic.

Speaker 1: (01:05:39)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

Many of us have dealt at sometime in our life with depression, anxiety, burnout or stress. Many of us know what it's like to fight on a daily basis with the black dog. In this very candid and honest interview with Author Matt Calman we dive deep into the how depression and mental health struggles can catch anyone of us out and how we can courageously fight our way back to health and happiness. Matt used the challenge of the Coast to Coast to work through the demons in his mind and the importance of having a physical challenge and goal when dealing with derailed emotions. His book "The Longest Day" chronicles the ups the downs of his journey back to health culminating in the successful finishing of the ultimate challenge NZ's Coast to Coast multisport race The infamous Coast to Coast is a multisport competition held annually in New Zealand. It is run from the west coast to the east coast of the South Island, and features running, cycling and kayaking elements over a total of 243 kilometres (151 mi). It starts in Kumara Beach and traditionally finished in the Christchurch suburb of Sumner, but since 2015 finishes in New Brighton. You can find out more about Matts book at https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/books/other-books/The-Longest-Day-Matt-Calman-9781988547305 We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Today I have another special interview with a very lovely friend Matt Calman. Now met is a journalist and he is the author of the longest day and matt shares his journey today through a very bad depression and coming back and using the coast to coast is his journey back to health. So it's a very, very interesting and insightful and really real interview, which I'm very pleased to bring you before we get over to matt just want to remind you my book relentless is now out in available on all the platforms, on audio books, on eBooks, on Amazon, on Kindle. You can find out all about about it at relentlessbook.lisatamati.com. That's relentlessbook.lisatamati.com I'd also like a word to all the runners out there. If you've been sitting on the fence about joining our online run training club running hot now's a good time to do it during the covid crisis, we have made a special so that it's more affordable for people.

Speaker 2: (01:14)
We have a 12 week excess membership excess for 49 us dollars at the moment for 12 weeks and get access to all of our programs from 5k up to a hundred miles. And we have a very holistic run training approach. So if you've never run before, this is your first time that you have having a go at it or whether you're doing your hundredth a hundred kilometer race. We'd love to talk to you and help you build a very structured plan and a holistic approach based on our five pillars, which are the running, the mobility, the strength and nutrition and the mindset. So check that out. That's on my website, at lisatamati.com. Now, before I go, please do give the show a rating and review. I really, really appreciate that on iTunes if you could. It really helps the show get exposure. And I love to hear your feedback of any of the episodes have really touched a chord with you. Or if you've found great help with this, please share it with your networks and also write to me and let me know. Really, really appreciate it right now over to matt Calman

Speaker 3: (02:17)
Well, Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tammany here and I am with matt Calman. Matt, how you doing? Good, thanks Lisa. Thank you for having me on. Oh, it's very, very exciting to have you met as a fellow New Zealand author. and, as I said, you don't know. He has written the book the longest stay recently, very recently telling his life story. And I'm going to share my story. I'm going to share his story with us. There. It is the longest life as I was watching on YouTube. I must grab a book met you know, really excited to delve into your story a little bit today and your backgrounds and how this book came about and your, your history. So give us a bit of a rundown on who you are and where you come from and your family and so on. And then it still haven't your story.

Speaker 4: (03:03)
Well, I'm, I'm 43 now. I was born and mastered them and it's very small town Amsterdam. Then my dad worked there as an insurance man then got transferred to Christchurch when I was about three years old. So like, yeah, I don't, I didn't know, I don't know Amsterdam then very well, but I had the roots there, a lot of friends there, and then we put down some roots in Christchurch and that's where I grow up. So I spent all the way through to my sort of early twenties and Christchurch. And then I met my wife, ah, when I was 19 and she was 17. She was just finishing up high school, took it to the bowl. And you pretty early on actually throw me and I know that she was going to be the ones who may, yeah, but a fairy tale really.

Speaker 4: (03:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're still dealing. We've got a couple of daughters now teen and nearly seven two girls and I've been, I'm at home with them for the last nine years. So when my, when my first, our first daughter was about seven months old I left my job as a journalist. I've been a journalist for a few years of the dominion post. I was living in Wilmington at that time with my wife's where she started her legal career. She's now a partner at a, at a sort of a good sized law firm and Christchurch. And we're living, you know, living the dream. But yeah, it's a, it certainly hasn't been a straight road life pays its ups and dances. You know, Lisa, I've read your book and I read about all your ups and downs and yeah, pretty inspiring stuff.

Speaker 3: (04:48)
Oh, thanks man. Yeah. And I'm keen to Delvin zoo story because you know, I love, I love people who share, they are the real stuff, the, the stuff that isn't perhaps pretty in the stuff that isn't glamorous, the difficult times. And your, your story is certainly inspiring. So let's start with where it all went wrong. You know, cause this sounds like a fairy tale. You meet your beautiful wife, you, your kids and lost going. Great. We did it all. We did things start to go wrong for you.

Speaker 4: (05:15)
Let's see. In Congress thing about all of us about depression, about how it doesn't discriminate it, it touches people who've had wonderful life like I've had. Well, and it touches people who struggled. It doesn't, yeah, it's not really about how good your lifers. Yes, from the outside, my life was perfect. Two beautiful children, amazing wife. We don't want for anything. We were pretty comfortable financially. Live in a lovely house in Christ, in a leafy suburb internally for probably it had been years, you know, it was like a tap dropping, slowly dropping, dropping, dropping and building up on this internal struggle I was having with Myla identity with my direction in life. There were a number of factors. There was, there was some sort of, at the time I had my breakdown and at the end of April, 2017 come off the back of a very stressful situation with, with someone who had kind of lied to us and taken the money and not a lot of money, but I took it very personally coming out of the back of that I had had some panic attacks like the year before, my first major panic attack was off the back of a situation.

Speaker 4: (06:32)
When I started to realize that things weren't right. And so I've been, I've been in hindsight dealing with depression and anxiety, social anxiety for most of my life. So before I knew what to call it, because I'd always, you know, I compared myself with other people and you look at the worst case scenario, the worst of the worst person who has suffered terrible mental illness and there's a full range. You're somewhere on, everyone's somewhere on the spectrum. So I never thought that I really had a problem with, with the time to, to fix or to try and address. So for years, this tape dropped and dropped and dropped. But it finally got to the point where I reached my breaking point and, and that's where the book really kind of begins. You know, I, this is, this was where my life kind of fell apart and I was diagnosed with depression, something that one, and for New Zealand as well experienced in the lifetimes. It's very, very common. We don't talk about it, but from the time I had my breakdown, that was when I started to she and to reach out and actually address it properly. Yup.

Speaker 3: (07:42)
And I mean, this is, this is, you know, like we do sometimes think that because I didn't, you know, love through the most horrific thing. The four don't have a right to be depressed in any way. And that's really a dangerous thing what you say, because then you don't address it. You don't know. Look out front. And you know, having had depression myself and having it rock bottom a number of times in my life I can totally relate to this feeling. So what actually had of it? How did it manifest itself when it really crashed? And this is what usually happens, you have a big crash.

Speaker 4: (08:19)
Well, basically I had been building out for months, weeks and months really seriously to the point where I was, I was desperate and feeling you really love myself. I was really irritable. Which is, which was a number one symptom and, and nightly mean like does anger where it's a rational, you don't really know what it's about, where it's coming from. And so like I was snapping it feeling really bad and apologizing straight away. And then, Mmm, in rhino it was sort of aware that things were about off, but she didn't, I, I mainly had it from everyone around me and I was just feeling internalizing everything. I was feeling all this mental strain, a lot of it, very subconscious. And it was just building up on me, building up and when it really crashed my, my daughters that had their cousins around for a sleepover extra.

Speaker 4: (09:15)
And so, Oh, it was under a bit of a bit of pressure there and I wasn't feeling good in myself. And I kind of had a boat, an outburst in front of all the kids in the kitchen over breakfast. I went upstairs and I was just sort of sliding back on my bed, really searching for what was going on, a real, I was feeling very desperate. And then, and then I looked over and I saw a vision and I'm actually in my bedroom now, so I looked over at the on suite away and a version of myself hanging in the doorway. No. Did well flashed into my, I w it wasn't, it wasn't even in my mind, it was like Alison nation. There was signs of it and a real that it just scared me straight. It gave me a white to, to the real problem that was there was head name.

Speaker 4: (10:07)
And I, it was, it was very frightening. Mmm. They fleshed up and then it was gone. You know, very quickly, and I described this in the book and that was the moment I reached out. I already had a and they haven't used for help. I've been seeing a counselor for, for the panic attacks I'd had the year before, but I got through that sort of put the bandaid on there, which was great, but hadn't really dealt with the main thing, which was this depression that was coming. Yep. And so I reached out for here and cold out for my wife and from there moment there was, there was no more facade of, of being okay. And it'll come down and it was just relating,

Speaker 3: (10:52)
No. How was that for a man on an eye? Like, you know, woman generally have a, a slightly perhaps easier time or sharing their emotions and how was it for a, you know, good Kay, we broke two to open up about something like this and you know, even to write about this afterwards is, is it quite, you know, like difficult and how's it been? How's it been received?

Speaker 4: (11:15)
I think for me it maybe was a little bit easier for me than for maybe other men who don't have an outlet. Yeah. I'd been a writer, you know, for a long time in June, freelance for a long time. I've been writing a blog about my life at home with the children in the early days. The ups and downs of life in a really honest blog about parenting and which was pretty entertaining to people were in serious, you know, I touched on some serious topics of miscarriage and grief and the stresses of being a parent and, and the identity of being a, being in the workplace and then coming home and not having that anymore. And then when I gave up alcohol in 2016 my blog, I'd started blogging and The signs, Diane is, is a good friend of mine, a lot of Dane has written books about her sobriety and, and keeps up the website living sober, which I joined.

Speaker 4: (12:09)
I'd done an article for drug foundation on her. And she inspired me to one of the people that really inspired me to give up drinking and, and just say, you know, get rid of that depressant. Yes. It's like they had a way basically taking that away rule the mental health staff to the four that was already bubbling away. I no longer had alcohol to kind of put the bandaid on the problem. I had to deal with it. So this is a very common thing that people would give up. Alcohol, I have to kind of deal with life in the war and without, without that thing, help them. So yeah, so like probably losing sight of the questionnaire, which often happens with me when I go on and on. But I have been blogging about, I've been doing this daily blog on those pseudonyms.

Speaker 4: (12:54)
So man, three, six, five. And actually if you, if you Google sideman three, six, five, the blogs are start up online. I, I blog for a year, the first year of sobriety that about seven, six, seven months and it became a blog about more about depression and about, about the struggles I was having. Wising up to that stuff. I'd already had the panic attack and that started writing about that. And then they know I, you know, I had my big crash and I stopped writing for a period of probably at least a week or a week and a half. We are obviously just trying to get through and getting through each moment really. And I wasn't able really to do anything. You know, I was, I was stripped back and control. I couldn't drive. I couldn't do much more than lie on the couch and just try and get, you know, get through the day.

Speaker 4: (13:43)
And so when I started riding again, I reentered the blog. Mmm. Talking about the depression. So being open about it, it already happened. So I win. You know, I decided to write the book, you know, I knew, I knew that writing as honestly as possible, it was really important. So you don't just talk in generalities and let people fill in the gaps. Oh, I've got my experience. I'm not an expert on depression, but I'm an expert on my own depression. And in that way, there's this universality of it. No, I mean everyone has a very unique experience in different ways that they can coping and get stroller. But I, I put my roadmap down in the book to help out other people you know, build their own roadmap. So

Speaker 3: (14:27)
You've come through this time and I know that you know, and it's moving to the part of the story where, you know, it's called the longest day for a reason.

Speaker 4: (14:38)
What happened there also in February, 2018. So I'm sort of, I'm throw the worst part of the depression, the, the railway early days when I'm getting on the medication, you know, I'm getting back to functioning and, and my, my heat's clear and the fog is lifting and I'm starting to look for the challenge, the next thing that I can do because basically you guys stripped all responsibility. I just stopped. I was a big being at home. It was actually easier for me and I don't know how people who work do this. Rhino, he was able to take all that pressure off me and I could just work on my recovery. And so then I was looking for the next thing to actually do the next challenge. And my friends were finishing the coast to coast, which is a rice that goes from the West coast, New Zealand tomorrow, serpentine beach.

Speaker 4: (15:27)
And then it goes all the way across the country over the big mountain. And then you're on down the road down the why man and then you're cycling correct across J 70 case last bike ride into this terrible kid, went on the straightest route and use the longest straightest road in New Zealand. CFA arrived and you're finishing it and you brought in a new youth Sumner that can the day speed do any, it was one of the famous Cathy lunch, all these famous famous people writing Curry, Sam Klein as the Legion, the rice in the moment, four time winner and the most iconic race and captured it beautifully between one side of the country and the other, my friends were finishing and I decided to go out for the first time either to see the finish of this race. I've lived in Christchurch most of my life, always been kind of kept divided by this rice, nivo bean physically there, this is the mistake I made.

Speaker 4: (16:12)
I go into the race, you go to this race and you get drawn into the rice and you get inspired by all these amazing people. No half of them don't look like acting like that prepared within an inch of their lives. And I are all finishing this rice. You see what it means to them you see on their faces but the struggle. Yeah, the joy, the hardship that the just getting over all these little struggles along the way to get across the Island. And it's, it's not, it's not a sure thing. You start this race and you don't know what's going to happen. You can prepare for everything, but it gets, stuff gets chucked in you. And this is just like as a metaphor for life, this race. So I've seen my friends Spanish, I see Sam clot actually finish. You finished about half an hour before my friends cause the one day people, you even do it in two days or one day.

Speaker 4: (17:02)
People, we don't know that was raised the two day people start on the second day and sorry, the one night people start on the second day of the rice. I winner in the late people, I pass a lot of the highly end of the two day field, so the flower people. And so I stay in class one time. I say the winner of the rice, I say my friends finish. I see them embraced by their families. They run the last bit of the kids and I'm like, I want to buy the of this. I'm going to. So I decided, I left, I left the race and I'm biking back to my house, 10 Ks away. And so, and as I was biking home I already knew I was going to sign up in 2019 and just would be the vehicle I would use to prep does doing things differently in my life to approach challenges differently because a lot of my problems had been, I've been so hard on myself. The things that are tried or not tried, I'd mainly been a spectator on the sidelines of my own life. Wanting to do some of these things and thinking, no, that's not for may because God, I know I couldn't do that and I decided, right. All right, I'm going to do it. If my friends can do this, I can do this.

Speaker 4: (18:14)
I mainly knew that this was the vehicle for my book because I'd always wanted to ride.

Speaker 3: (18:19)
Yes. This well in sport, you know, like, I mean, you know, I've got different, but some of stories really.

Speaker 4: (18:31)
No, I'm not. I'm Lisa, the late on sort of a, I would, NASA, I'm on a little bit higher than a weekend warrior. But well, no, kind of just hanging under there at a late level.

Speaker 3: (18:42)
Yeah. Well that's the funny thing Matt. I'm totally not a late and never have been. Oh, hold on. Ever done his work for 25 years at something and got, you know, halfway good at it.

Speaker 4: (18:55)
It doesn't matter though, isn't it? Yeah, it's the price you say,

Speaker 3: (18:58)
But, but you know, like as far as ability and like, you know, you put me in a race with you. If I had to go for a jog for you with you, you'd be like off I cry. That like, come on. All right. My husband does it every day. You know, I like, I'm slow. But that doesn't matter. Right. It's, it's the journey that you go on on the inside. That's really what's important. And your, your story actually reminds me of Charlie angle's story a little bit, except he was much more extreme metallic. Charlie is he's the one at random right across the Sahara and he's legend. Widowed in, in, in his story was well, much more alcohol and drugs. So he, yeah, he took, yeah. Now stories to the other end of crazy, but on both ends.

Speaker 3: (19:46)
But, but this, this, this, the same reason nights through so many of our lives. And when we take up a sport that is hugely challenging, whether it's the coast of ghosts or deer Valley or doing something crazy, it is the hardest thing you've ever done, but at the same time as the best, most rewarding experience. And it changes your perception of who you are. I mean, I, I remember even like when I met my husband at the beginning he was coming to me for running coaching and you know, he wanted to do this charity of running 27 case in full BA. He's a firefighter and full caps, you know, the yellow plastic suits with full BA for charity. And he wanted to know about running in the heat. So who better to ask, right?

Speaker 3: (20:32)
Teach teacher may touch him in any, any does it. And it goes, it raises lots of money. Awesome. And he, he always thought that ultra marathon runners had to be special types of people with super talents. And he started when he started to get to know me to realize, hang on, there's nothing special about this church. She's just funny. And it realized that, hang on, I could probably do this. And then his life, you know, he's gone on to do lots of ultras and so on. And this story of head over and over and over and over again because we sit ourselves, limitations of what we're capable of, don't we? And we, and we think we can overcome them. And you saw in your friends, so you considered perhaps equals to you that they could do this and therefore that was a gateway for you to

Speaker 4: (21:17)
Absolutely. And I think also like, you know, really on our mind, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to do the coast to coast until the end, you know, so I turned up. So yeah, so it's not like it's not 243 kilometers across a mountain and across the country and down the river. It's a million States. And so you just start walking towards her and then why it's all that process stuff. So, and there was also a massive antidote to the depression as like depression really does. I mean, they say that old saying goes a depression lives in the past and regrets and the things that you've done and things you're holding on. So anxiety lives in the future and worries about what's going to happen up here. And I had both of those things going on. So, so the coast to coast and training, like you know, you've got to be in the moment.

Speaker 4: (22:04)
You described this many times Googling down evens pass at 70 Ks an hour on your bike. There's potholes all over the place. It's very much you should, you really need a P in the moment. So, so the poster goes, training draws the past and in the future into the present in the end. So, so you are, you are just soaking up that experience. Like in the past when I trained, I would off be beating myself up about God. I wish I was better and and, and I'd have pain in my body. I some thought, I wish I wasn't hurting and all the stuff, you know, and, and I'd be just fixated on this little rigid small goal of I have to run a certain time in my half marathon. I've always wanted to break an hour, an hour and a half so I could consider myself a good runner.

Speaker 4: (22:50)
I was like, well, okay, a lot of people would have killed to do, do my best time of, of an hour, 31, whatever it was. And so, you know, I'd never quite made that. And maybe one day it doesn't matter to me now it's, it's really more about the duty because like the, all that time I spent or writing myself and being so hard on myself, and then I wouldn't reach the goal and then I would be like, Oh, there's just another reason why I'm not good enough. Yeah. You know, you know, a lot of people think like this and like, I thought like this all my life. Yeah. The first thing the first thing I had to fix, Mmm. When I was recovering from the, from my breakdown, well, it was my relationship with myself. So you're like, you know, you're talk about you need to lock yourself.

Speaker 4: (23:37)
That is really important. But to really truly like yourself and say, Oh, my K is so powerful. Mmm. And it does just the mindset tweak. It's just a shift in mindset to the point of, Mmm. From that moment on, you don't hear about all that external stuff. You don't hear about missing up, you don't care about falling out of your boat. So from that point on, once I've fixed my relationship with myself and I, and I went into this training, Mmm. Like a fraud. If I'd been the old man, I would have fallen out of my diet and I would have packed it all up and said, fuck it. I'm not going to do it. I'll, sorry. Sorry. Did y'all eat a data and, and carried me through the year because I'm embracing making mistakes and knowing that it was all a learning process and nothing's perfect.

Speaker 4: (24:28)
And my race, my two races, I edit coast to coast. Neither of them were perfect. I loved every minute of both races. The one, the one which is encapsulated in the book and then the one that I did this year earlier this year the best experiences of my life because you know, I've, I've now gained this massive community of people. Oh, I'm so connected now to hundreds and hundreds of people that do this race. It's opened my life up instead of like me going, God, I wish, I wish I had more friends. So I wish that I hadn't with deep friendships in my life, all that stuff was there all along, but he still wasn't being a very good friend to myself. I didn't feel I deserved it. Now that I'm, that I know that I'm okay, I realize that and I'm embracing that, but everything else has just improved. So I still struggle with depression and fate.

Speaker 4: (25:19)
Two days ago I really crushed again, like it had been building up subconsciously. My, my lockdown experience has been like a dream can be to a lot of people's and like kids have been so wonderful, but yeah, but I haven't, I need this space. I need the aligned time. And I need the time to just risk that, you know, when the kids are at school, if I'm not doing well, yup. You know, I say it's okay for me to risk cause I need to do that or there's certain strategies I've put in place and I haven't been able to do that. So that boat up to the point where it just all came out and, and, and I was like the irritability and the anger and the just feeling side low and just the brain fog was bad. And, but I've been here before. I lived experience, I know passes in the news today I signed up and did a yoga class and 9:00 AM to just get my day rolling in the right way and, and just yeah, like in street, like your home, I'm homeschooling. I'm not a teacher.

Speaker 3: (26:18)
You're not alone in this panel. I think there are many linear, many parents now they going, hell yeah, I get you.

Speaker 4: (26:25)
So you'd be a stay. It doesn't matter. Really the bigger picture is that you're okay. Yeah. And that everyone's happy.

Speaker 3: (26:32)
You know what? And what I find powerful about data to say, sometimes people write about, you've written a book, I've written three books. People think you've got it all together now you've written about it in a year together and you're, you're on top of it. And nothing could be further from the truth. We are all on a journey and as you said before, there's a spectrum and there's a, you know, we're all improving our mental health and I've been doing a lot of study lately on functional genomics and looking at genes and your predisposition to certain ways of you know, how long adrenaline stays in your body, how fast the dopamine mean is take, is processed, all of these chemical things and actually have an influence, which I'd love to talk to you about actually separately. I'll, I'll on that topic. When you, once you start to understand your genes, I think that all and what you can do to, to help support that that will be a really another great thing to, to, to have in your toolkit.

Speaker 3: (27:24)
But we need talkative. This isn't talking about like every time I go through a horrible experience and hard times, I really have a little bit more then I can use it. It can, it can either break me and there've been things that have nearly broken me and where I thought I was broken. And that was that. But you know, I managed to stand up. And then when you do stand back up, you've got another tool that you've been able to overcome. And this is why [inaudible] this story is so powerful and I really encourage people to go and get the book the longest day. Mine's on its way. And I'm looking forward to diving into it and into the story. And it really, if, if this, if this interview you guys sitting out there listening to this, if this is the reason I did with you, what's Matt saying?

Speaker 3: (28:12)
And you think that this could help you know, ground. Grab that book the longest day, shake it out, see what Mets all about and, and see if, if there's something in there for you that can help you. We write these books because we're just sharing Ella stories and we're not experts necessarily, but the, the value lies in the [inaudible] okay. In being open sharing honestly. Yeah. And giving other people a new perspective on the crap that they're going to, cause sometimes you cannot see the forest for the trees when you're in the middle of it. And another thing is, yeah,

Speaker 4: (28:49)
That your experiences as, as you need better does really quite universal. And the more you share about what's happening for you, then then you're giving other people permission. Feel connected. But also to share about, back to you, like, so you get back what you reflect out. And I, I've, I've seen it, what's going on with me with a lot of people, perfect strangers in a way, within 20 seconds of meeting a perfect stranger. I've gotten really good at being able to just sorta segue into a real deep conversation. And it's really one voice because, okay, we're, we're all, we're all sort of wandering around the planet aimlessly and then we collide with each other and we can make these really kind of amazing connections. And you don't have to be the best friend or the person you'd leave them. You might never see them again. But if I felt quite special way and then

Speaker 3: (29:40)
You feel and

Speaker 4: (29:42)
Going around being, I mean we have to do with our professional hats on and network and song be a certain way and so on. Well I don't have to, cause I'm sad I'm gay so I'm the most unprofessional person.

Speaker 3: (29:52)
But this is a thing and this is why I think we buy some, you know, we both kept them of our own ship cause I don't go to work either. I work my ass off but I wasn't going to work is that I can be who I am and that is the most precious thing to me and I can be the real person and not the person that, you know, people want me to be, you know, at least my son. You can just be you and [inaudible] and you can connect and this is what the other are that sport does. And when you're out doing the, the either coast to coast or an ultra marathon somewhere, you go through so much shit and that period of time and so much hardship and so much pain and so much doubts and so much whatever and the preparation and everything that the person that's running next to you or your crew or whatever the case may be, that going through it with you and they're experiencing.

Speaker 3: (30:40)
And that creates a bond that can, that is better than what the normal bottoms when you just go to have coffee with your friends, you know, and it's like, you know, when soldiers go to war together and they come back, they have a bond that I don't think we as outside people can ever actually understand because they've wrapped together and there is a beauty in this, even though it can be hard at the time. There is a beauty in that as well. And having those deep connections with other humans is a real human need. And you know, we, we sort of sometimes think we can be lone wolfs and we can, I mean, I used to definitely try and be the lone Wolf and I don't need everybody and and it was only because I was hurting, you know, it was only cause I didn't have that connection that I really sought needed. And you do dumb things in, you know ma, I know you've got a, an appointment to get to and I've got another coaching session to do. I would really like to continue this conversation, you know, maybe in a second or a little bit later on because I think it needs to be really explored so we can people buy the book, where can they find out about you and your blog and all the other work that you're doing that.

Speaker 4: (31:49)
So, so the book is published by element on one. I just hear from them that that wall are not fulfilling orders at the moment, but when it starts back up again, you can order it. Online. You just, you just Google the longest day met Kellman at all. They all know at links pop up, you can get it for Kindle on Amazon and for a reader on ebooks.com. Which was another instant way to be able to read it in the lockdown. A lot of people have done that yet.

Speaker 3: (32:19)
ebooks. And do you have a website met that you personally have?

Speaker 4: (32:24)
Yes, mattcalman.com so MA, T, T, C A L M A N . com l and he's a lengthier actually to to buy the book. And you sit on my photos. thats from my racing in falling out a client days, which

Speaker 3: (32:40)
Will continue. I wouldn't even, I had a certain one, one of those rice ones you haven't loved until you said. That's nice. Good. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today. I really appreciate it. It's been an honor to have you on and to meet another fellow author, you know, doing, doing cool stuff in the world. So thank you very much for your time. Thanks so much. Been great.

Speaker 1: (33:08)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

Founder of Be Pure Ben Warren talks to Lisa about what you can do to boost your immune system, give your body optimal nutrition and attack systemic inflammation, a major cause of many chronic degenerative disease. Lisa and Ben discuss everything from your hormones and how they work to our gut bacteria and nurturing your microbiome to getting the key nutrients you need to stay healthy. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni...

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige...

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Welcome back to pushing the limits this week. I have a special interview with Ben Warren of Be Pure. Now Ben is a celebrity nutritionist, very well known in New Zealand and an absolute authority when it comes to health and wellbeing and I had a really great interview with him so I'm going to pass over to him in a moment. But before I do, just a reminder, if you want to join me on my book launch tour and holding online book launches every Thursday night at 6:00pm if you go to booktour.lisatamati.com you can register on there and join me live meet my amazing mum. Here are background stories behind the book, relentless and if you want to grab the book really is to straight away. You don't want to wait for the book launch, then head on over to lisatamati.com you can grab it as an audio book, as a paperback, Amazon Kindle, every which way known to man. It's available. So head on over to lisatamati.com Right now over to Ben Warren of BPO. Well, hi, everybody Lisa Tamati here. Today I am sitting with Ben Warren, who is our famous national treasure in regards to nutrition and healthy lifestyles. Welcome. It's great to hear. That's very humbling. You're a legend in this country already. So for those who don't know, BenI know when you, you know, you would have missed that. But Ben as the founder and owner of Be Pure, which is a, what is it? It's actually been explained what Be Pure is because it's not just some,

Speaker 3: (01:52)
What is it? No. So true. Yeah, it is. We're, we're, we're basically an education company and so essentially we're an education company that educates people well around diet and lifestyle factors to improve people's quality of lives. People's help people on their health journeys. That looks in a variety of different ways. We have, we do have nutritional supplements, we have educational resources to help people eat better, to live healthier. We have a laboratory that does very advanced hormone testing. So there's a number of why is that we come in to try and ah, yeah, help people on their health journey really. Because, you know, we're all on this journey trying to be, be healthiness and enjoy life as much as we can. And yeah, the, the company is really a platform to help people do that more.

Speaker 2: (02:44)
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm fascinated to watch your journey, you know, like as a, as a company Be Pure as is being a role model for our company and learning from you guys and what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's been quite fascinating. And you know, you've been kind enough to share tips over the years. And one of the big tips that I have to tell people and also saying executive vain. He was the first one that put me onto hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which of course was absolutely key in my mom's rehabilitation. And his, his, you know, I ended up being then have now solve the clinic, but it's, it's European available might be more, well now in the, in the, you know, area for Brighton rehab and for many other areas as well. So that was a huge step that been just, you know, off the cuff, taught me one day when we were talking about mum and has her situations, I think that was really key. You're welcome, you're welcome. And it's so, so otherwise they say you're so inspiring in whatever you're doing and, and you know, where'd your mom and tell her story and her recovery. That's just kind of what we expect from you now.

Speaker 2: (03:57)
You know, the sorts of research and things that goes into any health journey. And it's never just a, you know, like I think one of the providing mentality unfortunately with a lot of people is that we go to the doctor, we get a single pill and we take the pill and we're all good. And you and I know that, okay, health is really a motive faceted thing that we need to be always tweaking and learning and developing in being open minded as to how to improve. And we, our knowledge is of course in, you're at the cutting edge of, of research and so on. And always learning the next thing, and this is, this is what leads to being along team health I think is having that attitude, that open-minded attitude to, you know, looking at what the latest research is saying and building the blocks that are required from the exercise to the sleep, to the meditation, to the supplements, to the photos. You know, all of these aspects play a huge role, don't they?

Speaker 2: (04:56)
Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more or less, or if it is, you know, for all of us, we were on this journey, on the shot's journey and, and life throws, throws things at you, you know, you suppose curve balls at you and then you have to be able to pivot and respond to those. You know, just as we're recording this right now, we'll see during the COBIT 19, knocked down in New Zealand. And so a guy in a whole different set of challenges around health. Right now I'm from social isolation through to boredom, eating, emotional eating you know, something, you know, [inaudible] but having to deal with a lot of different things. And so, you know, life changes and but, but it's certainly the more you can do those fundamentals really well, like you mentioned those lifestyle factors, we know that you, you know, you're going to weather it better.

Speaker 2: (05:44)
Exactly. Exactly. Instead today they are wanting to talk with you some of the key learnings that you have around, you know, because we are in this coronavirus, time building immunity and voting our bodies up to be strong so that they can cope with, with virus and things that come at us. In delving deeper into, you know, some of the areas that you've been working in and also some of the nutrients that we really need to think about being edited into our, into our diet, whether that's through supplements or whether that's through food. So what would be your top tips for boosting immunity? Okay.

Speaker 3: (06:25)
Yeah, I think, you know, when we start looking at diet and lifestyle factors for immunity, Mmm. There's probably sort of three or four key areas, but we can improve our foods. What are we eating, our nutrient levels and then lifestyle factors and, and, and I mean the full one, which kind of comes in under, under the food's weightings, also our gut. Yeah. So let, let's, let's start at the started the, the food aspect first. And so ideally we want to be eating, you know, this foods we want to be adding [inaudible] there are going to be benefiting to try immune systems. So these are, these are going to be a whole foods nutrient dense foods, so lots of vegetables, high quality fats and proteins. And so there's a number of factors, you know, the fats and proteins are the [inaudible] tools to build immune molecules.

Speaker 3: (07:14)
[Inaudible] [inaudible], Bye diet or you know, light. So by seeding a lot of plants, vegetables, that's going to have a ride the best environment for the, for the beneficial bacteria and the microbiome, which is [inaudible] the first line of defense really for an immune system. And then you know, from from from a whole food aspect. There's also things we want to be then eliminating. So you ideally trying to minimize sugar as much as possible because sugar feeds the unfriendly bacteria, which then impacts our immune system. And then really trying to minimize also, Mmm, sure. I, I'm not a big fan of gluten containing foods for a lot of people. They really struggle with glutinous protein, your immune system's responding to gluten as a protein. And so minimizing gluten as a protein. So the first step would be that the whole food step. Mmm. Yeah. And then so I go on to talk about nutrients.

Speaker 2: (08:07)
Yeah. Well, so this was just a sick that, you know, when you say like gluten's not good. I mean, I mean, I'm of the opinion that gluten is probably bad for all of us, which is a really hard pill to swallow because I like Brandon, I'll be honest, I really struggled with the braid one. It is, it isn't good for any of us as a, it's not just people who are good you know gluten intolerance or celiac disease people. But it, it, what does it actually do? Why is it such a insidious, isn't it? Is that one of the LinkedIn's, you know, is it one of the, in the LinkedIn family?

Speaker 3: (08:42)
Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, there's a number of factors to it and you actually, rightly so, the research does show that the, the gluten has been shown to be inflammatory for everybody. So in this study they took people who are celiacs, who we know have a strong immune response to gluten and non-celiac, and they found that it didn't matter whether they were celiac or not, whenever they gluten increased inflammation. So we know that it is inflammatory for everybody according to the research. And so why is it so inflammatory? Well, I guess there's a number of reasons, but let me see if I can sort of put this together succinctly. On a basic level, the red wording now is nothing like the bread that your grandmother was eating. So you know, if we go back, okay. Over the last 50 years, the hybridization of grains has, has, has meant that the gluten content has increased.

Speaker 3: (09:30)
It's meant the unbeknowing to the, you know, actually Norman BOLO, who, who, who did a lot of the hybridization got a Nobel prize for it. [inaudible] Did concentrate the lectin levels. So they are higher, much higher levels of blood jeans in modern wheat varieties. Now, lectins are a molecule plants make to stop insects from eating them. And so it looks like in increasing the lectin levels in weight, modern weight they, they, they basically made it so the insects can't hate it, but it looks like humans can't tolerate it either now. And so definitely the lectin component of it is [inaudible] [inaudible]. Also a contributing factor together with in the modern world we seem to have, Mmm. A lot of leaky gut issues and this is where the junctures in your gap start getting loose and the food particles we're eating start getting into the immune, into the bloodstream where we get an elevated immune response. And so we don't know, maybe it's the sugar, maybe it's the lifestyle, maybe it's nutrient proficiency. So we don't know exactly what's driving this perfect storm of gut leakiness. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that seems to be coupled with this increased intolerance, the bread and gluten.

Speaker 2: (10:35)
Right. And that's a really good one. Let's, let's talk a little bit about what happens when you get the leaky gut syndrome. So the particles are passing through, partly on digested in, in toxins and chemicals and things that are you. You're inadvertently ingesting when you, when you have food [inaudible] unchecked into the blood system and dissolving into the blood. So that's causing systemic inflammation and toxicity in the NSLS. Is that, is it half works?

Speaker 3: (11:04)
[Inaudible] Yeah, exactly. So 70 to 80% of our immune system is centered around the are associated with [inaudible] lymphoid tissue, which is in our gut. And the reason being that the easiest way to get a pathogen into your body is to eat it. And so this is the new primary interface between the outside world and now our inside world and our bodies. And so when these junctures start getting loose, we start, like you say, start getting from particles. Mmm. And toxins from the foods we're eating. [inaudible] Big and molecules start getting into the bloodstream that shouldn't be there. And now our immune system then recognize these things, proteins. And, and when we look at you know, I'm interested in, it's constantly looking at the foods we're eating, particularly the proteins going, is this protein food or is this protein a virus or backup Syria because viruses and bacteria that just pertains to, so if basically looks at the proteins and if you got a big in there that shouldn't be there, the immune system goes tags it as, as non-self tags as an invader. And we build specific and new molecules to that.

Speaker 2: (12:02)
And then

Speaker 3: (12:03)
Our immune system talks systemically throughout their whole body. And so if you start getting an elevated immune system in your gut so for example, the macrophages which are a big immune molecule, they will talk to the other macrophages in your body and say, Hey, we're getting attacked,

Speaker 2: (12:17)
Regulate, start looking for anything that looks like.

Speaker 3: (12:20)
And so we start thinking, getting increased inflammation throughout our whole body, our immune system more than even start taking proteins that are,

Speaker 2: (12:29)
Oh,

Speaker 3: (12:30)
Not us. And we start attacking proteins that are us. And I mean that, that can be in the joints as in the case of rheumatoid arthritis. Often it can be in the thyroid, in the case of autoimmune Arthur autoimmune, Hashimoto's and these kinds of conditions. So it then has a, yeah. A systemic effect for our whole body.

Speaker 2: (12:49)
Wow. So, so a lot of the auto immune diseases which are rifle in their world, you know, like Hashimoto's and thyroid, a classic examples of the body just attacking itself and killing your own tyroid at the end of the day because it's [inaudible]. And even with this coronavirus from what I understand, it's interleukin six is what they've identified as being the, they problematic. Is it cytokine that is Mmm. Yeah. Closing this huge immune response in this or the body overreacts in seats. So many songs just to fight it that it actually starts shooting everything for, you know, as an analogy it starts killing off the good end. The bed. Yeah. Over-reactive immune system. So when we, when we're talking about inflammation, cause most people still are saying inflammation is like when I cut my leg, it goes a bit red and sore and that's inflammation or they get a sore knee when they've tweaked it or something and that, but this is, this is information that is right, the body because it's in the blood system and it's popping out in different areas.

Speaker 2: (13:51)
So one of the like I've got a brother who's got some very bad Becker shoes and I'm, you know, very much convinced in the work that I've been doing with him that it's a systemic inflammation problem as much as it is a disc problem. And that's a bit of a leap [inaudible] people to make because they think, no, I've got a sore back, I've got a disc problem or I've got a new problem. And they don't actually equate it to actually know the, the, the body's immune system is in overdrive, the inflammation is going, you know, and we need to, we need to address that as well as perhaps looking at if there's a physical injury. But it's actually, you know, looking at that whole, the whole body looking at the gut health. Okay.

Speaker 3: (14:36)
Absolutely. It's, it's, it's the whole environment. The immune system is talking to the immune system throughout the whole body and, and so the more that we can kind of create environment that that is calming down the immune system, the more that we can have the a wonderful point you raised up around the, you know, the coronavirus instances, the cytokine storm with where the immune system gets out of control and that's actually then becomes dangerous in of itself is we want to well controlled immune system. And this is actually where nutrients like vitamin D comes in [inaudible] controls and modulates your immune response. And so if if we looked at your immune system like a we want your immune system to be like a really good heading dog. And so we want you like, so if you've got a dog in with the sheet you don't want Labradors in the shade because it's just going to cause a whole bunch of collateral damage.

Speaker 3: (15:25)
That collateral damage being inflammation. What we want is a really good heading. Dog knows exactly when to go in and exactly when to stay sitting here and not just the shape. And so Benjamin Day is like the shepherd with the whistle, the controls, the immune system. It controls when the dog goes in and out. And so having adequate vitamin D, and this is one of the reasons why adequate vitamin D is so important for our immune system is cause they actually modulate some controls. This immune response as do Omega three fatty acids, Omega three fatty acids as found in fish oils and only fish salmon. They, they, they make specific molecules that can help turn off that interleukin six inflammatory marker. And so they modulate and control the immune response

Speaker 2: (16:06)
That is, that is quite fascinating. Vitamin D is not just, they, they're actually pulling out a whole mine of [inaudible] now that it has, because there's so many influences throughout the body and vitamin D also in relation to calcium. So I'm taking it with keto and vitamin a is a good combination help you.

Speaker 3: (16:27)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. They used the nutrients. They, Oh, they, Oh they work together. And depending on which biochemical pathway, they have different cofactors for of the bone. A bit of a D controls you uptake of calcium and vitamin K two controls the deposition of calcium as where you're putting the calcium in your body. Cause we want to put the calcium in the bones. We don't want to put it in the soft tissue like Andres because that's associated with increased Heartland speeds. And so borons also required with bone factor. And so yeah, when you start looking at M D for immunity, it's coupled then with C, it's a couple of grips saying it's a couple who are a bit of an eye. So you did it. It's like a it's like a symphony and orchestra and different parts of the orchestra need to be playing at different times for, to create this harmony of, of human health.

Speaker 2: (17:15)
So that's a beautiful way of putting it. I'm in the middle at the moment and you know, I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I've been studying functional genomics inside of looking at different DNA specific DNA genes and the different pathways at nighttime. And yeah, it's been fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And one of the interesting ones was the vitamin D. Jane the name escapes me right now. Yeah. Can't remember what now, which switch. Yeah. Something like that. And what was interesting was that if you have the poorer conversion of vitamin D so that you, if you, for example, come from it's necessities that are closer to the equation or where there was a lot of sunshine in your ancestry, then you have often lower level of serum vitamin D in the body. And it can't be carried in by the transporter either very well.

Speaker 2: (18:15)
And so you need to have extra vitamin D, especially if, say somebody who's come from one of the hotter climbs and sisterly, and then you're living in a colder climate with this list, you know, sunlight and so on. So that was a really interesting Simon vitamin say was all side is there's a Jane that regulates the amount of vitamin C that's going around in the body. In some people who have the wrong variation, can not be able to process or not carry the vitamin C as efficiently as others. So again, I need an increased amount of vitamin Sansar. It's this really fascinating area science when you start looking at, Oh, so that's why somebody might react better to, to supplementation then, then somebody over here. And, and going into all of those, those, the specific Jane's, it's just been absolutely mind blowing.

Speaker 2: (19:08)
And I, I wish I had it off the top of my, my, my, well I hated the moment when I die, but it's just like I'll be studying under dr Mansell Mohammed who I hit on the show rates and a couple of times in the last couple of weeks. And it's, I'm really, really important to know, like to understand your Jane's, to get Jane profiling done. Cause then you can actually gauge which way your, you know, your hormones are going. I mean, I know that you do hormone testing when we're getting a bit off topic, but so you're looking at the pathways and so on that, you know, with the if you've got, so what are you home on T stone actually been, can you explain them a little bit?

Speaker 3: (19:48)
Yeah. So that, yeah, that's a great point. And so I completely agree with all that Lisa. Like, like the the future of Oh, nutrition is in personalized nutrition. And so I've always been a big believer that it's about finding what's right for you and, and absolutely on a, on a nutrient level. And just, just on that, on Benjamin Day, just to, so the highlight to your listeners, you know,

Speaker 2: (20:10)
Mmm.

Speaker 3: (20:10)
84% of new Zealanders in one study, 84% of new Zealanders are tested low in vitamin D and that's 18 animals. So, you know, we, we've got massive Bitterman deficiencies and, you know, obviously we're using sunscreen, we're not getting out of the sun as much, et cetera. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of, lot of different issues there. So when you start looking at the hormone testing. So let's jump back to the hormones. Yeah. So we were using urine metabolites. So with you in metabolites, you really pretty much get to see the whole hormone cascade. Whereas if you go get a blood testing the hormones you just go into yeah. Get one form of estrogen usually eat too. [inaudible] We'll do progesterone, but they're not gonna

Speaker 3: (20:47)
Necessarily see your types of gesture. And how is that guiding and, and also the timing of your progesterone is very important cause your progesterone is only going to really peak around day 19 to 22 of your cycles. So you need me to be getting the timing of that blood test. Exactly right. So what, without testing, we've got and incredibly advanced in the bar too. Actually one of the most advanced machinery in the world, liquid chromatography, mass spectrometry, where we are taking the urine and looking at it, how your body's breaking down these hormones so that we can then see how many hormones you have. And we can see the whole humor, new cascades. So you can not only see whether people, you know, the estrogen, but, but how is your body breaking down that estrogen? Because some forms of best, Jerome as it breaks down, are actually fairly toxic. One form is [inaudible]. It's actually the most researched molecule for breast cancer.

Speaker 2: (21:36)
Yes.

Speaker 3: (21:37)
So you, you're starting to see the whole cascade of what's going on. And, and yeah, obviously that's really useful for women who you know, having menstrual pain, menstrual difficulties, fertility issues, PMs, symptomology, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome, really useful for them to see what's actually going on and to help them and to help normalize their cycle.

Speaker 2: (21:59)
Yeah, it's really fascinating because this is an area that I've focused in on too with the Jane tasting. So looking at the, you know, the 1781 and the SRD five 82 and the sip 1981. And whether it's going into the two hydroxy or the four hydroxy pathways or you got it. Yeah. It's, yeah, we need to know this before we put a woman on the pill or what we put before we put a woman on board. I didn't go home therapy. These things need to be checked because we're, you know, we're, what, what might be perfectly fine for one woman can be a complete disaster and lead to cancer for another person. And so having this sort of testing available and understanding what pathway your body is, you know, because the four hydroxy estrogen, what you talked about there as being very inflammatory and the Quinones and the [inaudible] that are produced from the Fremont doxy and then if you have a slow comped Jane, so you can't get rid of it very well.

Speaker 2: (22:56)
We CLO. Yeah. It's a very complex matter that needs to be and we need to dissect this before we go and give somebody you know, certainly the contraceptive pill or the hormone replacement therapy. We need to understand those factors before we go and do that. I think it's quite shocking to me that is a, is a young woman is most young woman, you know I was put on the pill and all of the the downstream problems that that has caused for me in my body a thing quite horrific, you know, whereas for another person, that might've been fine. So I th that's an area that I think, you know, having the case done and understanding your personal pathway and your body's at right now and how old you are and with your producing is stroller or still extra dial or you know, all these things have a risk factor for the cancer situation.

Speaker 2: (23:55)
So it's really exciting that you've got that testing here now and there's, it's available for people to be able to understand their own gene pathways. There was a taste recently done the, the name of the scientist, it Skypes me, but they absolutely, it was out of Harvard. Absolutely. Conclusively have now discovered that the pill causes leaky gut syndrome, that, that it increases the permeability of the gut lining. [inaudible] [inaudible] With absolute certainty. So this is something that we need to be aware of because as we've spoke about before, the inflammation that that's going to be causing in a young woman's body. Is it scary, you know, and if you're on the pill for 20 years or 30 years, like I was you can imagine the downstream problems of that. Have you heard about that study at all?

Speaker 3: (24:51)
Ah, I haven't been, it doesn't surprise me that, you know, a number of medications have been shown to increase leaky gut and gut permeability. We know that, you know, a lot of research around the nutrient deficiencies, the being on the concept of pill drive. And so, you know, ideally it should be given with a high quality motivated man prescribed with a high quality motivated to mitigate the, the, a lot of those side effects. So. Mmm. Yeah. [inaudible] it's a different, a difficult question. I said in a day you work with be empowered around controlling whether they have a pregnancy or not, but you know, at the moment the side effects of, okay, or the pill for some women,

Speaker 2: (25:31)
Quite severe. And, I mean, this is not to say that the pill is not correct in the, in certain circumstances, but it's informed consent that we want, we want, we want to know what it is, the possibilities instead of just blindly going in and, and having and being on this without a breath he is and not knowing that there are consequences to, because you're basically shutting down a whole system in the body and that is going to have less of consequences, you know? Mmm. But we've gotten way off topic cause we were on absolutely. It's over licensed. But I find that I love to sit down and talk hours with you. That'll be sort of things. So what are some of the other things that we can do to build our immunity? So we looked at vitamin D, we've looked at our gut health. So probiotics, probiotics are very important as prebiotics. What is the difference between,

Speaker 3: (26:26)
Yeah, so probiotics are the beneficial bacteria or the bacteria that have been shown to have a, a known benefit to human health. Okay. So there's obviously a lot of, a lot of now Australians and species that have been researched for all sorts of different benefits of human health, whether that's reducing inflammation, increasing mental, improving digestive health. And so yeah, probiotics are the actual bacteria. And then prebiotics are the foods that feed the back Syria. And so prebiotics, you know, really think [inaudible] think vegetables here. But but you know, the, the, the real standout performer is going to be garlic, onion lakes, the beans and legumes. And so they've got a lot of very complex pumped sugars. [inaudible] The way, don't break down, but the bacteria alive. And so we want to be feeding, you know, it's not only about having the right species and strains and diversity within the microbiome and the gut, but it's also about feeding them, feeding them. So like try.

Speaker 2: (27:23)
Wow. So when you're taking a probiotic, you're trying to put good, big bacteria into your gut and when you're eating the prebiotic, so, you know, prebiotic, fiber and vegetables and you're also supplements now available.

Speaker 3: (27:36)
No

Speaker 2: (27:37)
That's actually giving them the right food to be able to, to thrive. And, and, and get stronger. Mmm. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (27:44)
Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a combination of those two.

Speaker 2: (27:48)
Yeah. You've got a probiotic.

Speaker 3: (27:50)
Yeah, we have. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a probiotic gut renew. It's an incredible probiotics, 18 strains, you know, researched and then they strange for, for human health 30 billion viable bacteria, very, very strong. It's an enteric coated actual, so that delivers the, delivers the bacteria, so through to the large intestine where we want it. And so we, yeah, we get a lot of very, very good results with that.

Speaker 2: (28:17)
That sounds excellent. Okay. So that's probiotics, vitamin D, what else is on the list for immune building supplements and foods?

Speaker 3: (28:27)
Yeah, let's talk about vitamin C. Obviously a bit of is required to build immune molecules. We don't make vitamin C anymore as, as a mammo. And it's interesting when you look at the genes around that most likely we don't make it cause we didn't need to make it cause we were eating so many fresh vegetables and fruits that we were getting adequate vitamin C that our body was like, you know what, there's a pathway here. We don't use it anymore because we're getting so much. So that's most likely turned off over the millennia. And so, but in the modern world, we're not getting enough vitamin C, again, a study out of a target of new Zealanders showed that a lot of new Zealanders were deficient in vitamin C, which is surprising because you know, you sort of think, are we not eating fruits and vegetables?

Speaker 3: (29:11)
Yes, but we are, but we're not eating necessarily fresh fruits and vegetables. So Mmm. Benjamin CB grades quite quickly. So the older the fruit based with the less Bitterman Cedar isn't it? And so, you know, a lot of the fruits and vegetables you're eating, unless you're growing them yourself aren't necessarily as fresh as I could be. And therefore I see content is actually as high as it could be either. So supplementing with vitamin C, very, very important on a daily level for sure. The skin, the hair for sleep. Mmm. The mood. Very, very important. Specifically under, under times of immune stress, we need more vitamin C because vitamin C is required to build immune molecules. And so so we have a product called [inaudible] [inaudible], which is very strong. I'm sorry, Scott. 1500 milligrams for half a teaspoon. And then, and then another aspect around vitamin C is the bioflavonoids. I recycle the electron vitamin C. Do you really want a two to one ratio of bioflavonoids and you've determined C because then you're getting kind of like double the vitamin C once it gets in your body. The activity levels.

Speaker 2: (30:11)
Mmm.

Speaker 3: (30:11)
And so permanency requirements. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (30:16)
It's a, it's a bioflavonoids net. Like a transporter of the vitamin C in the body or how does that work?

Speaker 3: (30:23)
Yeah, it's actually an electron donor. So it's like a, so you have a, a cascade of like, so they give their electrons or being an antioxidant means it can give, it's electron away, a spare electron. And so what it does is when vitamin C gives its electron to a for sell to stop it from being oxidized that vitamin C has lost its electron and it can't give it to anyone else, but the bioflavonoid can give its electron to the vitamin C and kind of recycle it. And so the, and so there's a whole, so when you ate a [inaudible], when you eat a deep fried, when you eat deep fried tired of shit for example vitamin a will give its electron to stabilize that fatty molecule. So then, and it's a bit of money is a very nice antioxidant for fats and in Bermondsey will give its an electron to beta mundane and bioflavonoids. We'll give it to the next one. So a bit of SI. And then your body makes a molecule who glutathione, which is a base antioxidant to give its electron to the bioflavonoids. So you have this kind of cascade of recycling of protection throughout your whole body. And, and so and so, you know, this is just one, one reason why a bit of, and CS, okay. Kind of off subject, but it's part of it. Part of this cascade.

Speaker 2: (31:29)
Yeah. No, very fascinating. This whole block chemical processes fascinate me as like how one donates to the other and gives it to the other elements changed into that. And that's all part of this thing that we, this is why we slow, intricate out, outweigh. We are such in one way was super robust. On the other hand, we're extremely complicated and you get one little thing roles and you start to get problems down the track. Vitamin C and collagen production or [inaudible]. So collagen is needs vitamin C two to be sense of size. Is that the right way of putting it?

Speaker 3: (32:03)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So sort of like, so a lot of these Bitcoins and minerals are the enzyme catalysts. So yeah. So they're actually for enzymes to work, which are like the catalyst to make things happen. They need these mineral mineral cofactors for, for the way I look at it is like, you know, you got a factory [inaudible] know if we looked at the immune system, you've got to factor in your body that builds immune molecule. So at the end of the factory line, yeah. I mean, molecules can go out there and fight. Yeah. You have the raw materials coming into the factory. You've had some proteins and then you have all the stages production, which involved different Benjamins and minerals. And so if you're deficient in one of those vitamins and minerals, it holds up the whole production line so that you can no longer produce as many immune molecules.

Speaker 3: (32:50)
And so, and so these are these enzyme catalyst cofactors. And so, yeah, Bitterman sees, you know, many, many functions throughout our body as in as easy as is and think it's gonna of a days. And so, Mmm. Yeah. The ability to turnover [inaudible] and build more collagen is, is that right? Limited [inaudible] deficiency. Wow. And the college, it is so important for our skin, obviously I hear and I always, but also for our gut lining, building the gut lining, our joints, we've got a lot of pain. Having good levels of vitamin sane can help with the pain levels. It, it's, it's, it's, yeah. Okay. So, so really is it really and, and you know, yeah. [inaudible] Hmm. Carry on baby. [inaudible] No, that's, I'm, I'm good.

Speaker 2: (33:45)
That's a lemon recording guys. As we've got to, we're going to like a, one second delay. And it's causing been an honor to talk over each other. We're not normally so rode down with me.

Speaker 3: (33:56)
Okay. So now,

Speaker 2: (33:58)
Well we've gone through, okay. Vitamin, vitamin C, probiotics, prebiotics as zinc. You've mentioned. What does zinc do in the body?

Speaker 3: (34:09)
Yes. Okay. Zane controls over 200 enzymes in your body. Really important for wound healing. Really important for the gut integrity. Very, very important for energy production. Very important for the immune system to build immune molecules. Really important for melatonin. Sleepy time. Oh my own production. Serotonin feel good. Yeah, the happy neurotransmitter. And so you know, zinc is, zinc is really high. Zinc foods can be [inaudible] oysters. W yeah. [inaudible]. Hi, zinc. [inaudible] Egg yolk. Milk. Okay. Pumpkin seeds. Seeds. We generally, when you look at zinc, you think we're getting enough, but many, many, many people are low in zinc. And, and so I'm a [inaudible] big fan of [inaudible] getting the same adequacy.

Speaker 2: (34:54)
Yeah. I think most new Zealanders I'm from. I remember being in one of your talks years ago and you're saying

Speaker 3: (35:00)
You gave us all some zinc and whether we tasted it or not and yeah. [inaudible] Then it was a huge problem that we have a deficit in, in, in zinc, in New Zealand especially. Along with selenium. I think the other major one let's just talk on mega threes. Like a mega threes are crucially important. I know for brain health it's been something that's been important for mum and her recovery is Omega threes. What else do I make us priests do in the money? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, well threes, I liked the, the substrate [inaudible] you're really important to the brain. So the brain is 80% fat. Particularly these foams of Omega three are really important. Excuse me just a moment. I'm just going to talk to my daughter. I understand. A cool mate. Okay. She was just cooling the dog. So we're obviously in lockdown.

Speaker 3: (35:58)
So this is make a three [inaudible]. Absolutely. No, it's pretty special. And so the make it raise help build specific, the immune system helps build resolving molecules to help turn off your immune response. Okay. So this is, you know, really one of the important things is we want our immune system to be really tightly controlled and have having a bigger three is this is why Omega threes are so beneficial for heart disease is because make the Omega threes turn off inflammation and essentially heart disease is an inflammatory disease. So, you know, 19, late 1990 stupid group of German scientists showed its implemation that causes heart disease. And so yeah, this is what you're saying. If we can have adequate mega threes to ensure that we have the ability turn off the immune response when our body [inaudible] safe to do that. Yeah, very, very important for that.

Speaker 3: (36:53)
Very, very important. Okay, so Amiga three, lower inflammation all throughout the body. So with heart disease, you know, again, I'm going back to the genes. There's a couple of genes that are responsible for how much cholesterol was laid down, how much cholesterol was picked up again, and recycle and police row. [inaudible] Absolutely no itself, not the big bad Wolf and the roam, like we used to think cholesterol was bad, but cholesterol was actually the is bomb for an inflammatory response, but it's the inflammation that's causing us to put the, the cholesterol down that we actually want to actually want to get to. And this is where they are making threes. I'm going to help calm that hole. All the blood missiles in the, yeah. [inaudible] Integrity, Palacio cells can be very, very beneficial. Okay. So then you've got a really great Omega three.

Speaker 3: (37:51)
Now some of the ones on the market and not so great. Can you explain why people should not go cheap when it comes to fish oil? Okay. Yeah, there's a number of factors really. I guess the first factor is around oxidization. You want to make sure that it's not damaged or oxidized. And so, you know, a study came out in New Zealand showing that many of the, pretty sure it was word damaged, oxidized. We actually do third party testing to ensure the hours. There's an oxidized and then we a bit of an [inaudible] to protect it. We also have a, a special capsule that protects it. Mmm. The new one really wasn't the active ingredients of Omega threes. The keys is, you know, a lot of fish oils, they might sell 2000 milligrams official, but they actually only have 120, 190 milligrams of, Oh actually we do aliens, DHI and epi.

Speaker 3: (38:40)
And so whereas ours has 1400 milligrams and so they actually get a clinical dose that's effective. To give you an example, you know, make threes are a very [inaudible]. Mmm. Yeah. And the research has been shown to be very beneficial treatment for the depression, but you need to be taking between 1,003 thousand milligrams of EPA [inaudible] for it to work. And so many fishers just don't have [inaudible] simply enough. And then also the concern with officials is, you know, heavy metal toxicity in the fish is also around heavy metals. So it's very important that the the, the, the officials, Mmm. You know, coming from kind of pure sources and then also have been molecularly distilled to eliminate those heads to eliminate those heavy metals.

Speaker 2: (39:22)
Wow. And that's why, yeah, that's why it's very, very important that you get the right ones when it comes to Omega threes and you know, not, not the $7 ones perhaps. Okay. Well thanks for your time today. It's been really insightful. I, I just, we don't want to wrap this all up now in, in a couple of scenes that says, so why is the immune system like we stress and the immune system is very another key factor, isn't it? Why is that important that we lower acid?

Speaker 3: (39:56)
Yeah. So there's a very complex relationship between stresses and our immune system. But the, essentially what happens is when we experience chronic stress, our immune system becomes kind of fatigued and suppressed. And so and so it's really, you know, we've got to manage our stress levels so that we don't run into this immune fatigue. And, and you start heading towards a more of a compromise, the immune picture. And so this is where you're managing stress. It's, it's so vitally important. And you know, exercise can be a good stress release. And your meditation, very good. Adequate sleep, really important. And so you're all of these things. Yes. To try and manage these festivals as much as possible.

Speaker 2: (40:39)
[Inaudible] Sums it up really nicely. We've got to get our stress levels down in order to give your body some energy to actually do the, do the good work and having strong immunity. So I've been I just want you to tell people where they can find you, where they can find out more about your work, your blogs, your education, your compliments, of course.

Speaker 3: (41:04)
Yeah. Best place. We've got incredible blog and information at www dot [inaudible] dot co.nz, the P U R E. Dot co. Dot N Zed Oh, on social media channels, BPO, Ben Warren on Instagram and Facebook. And so, yeah, if you have any questions, please look us up. Feel free to direct message us and they, and we look forward. So I'm helping you on your health journey is going forward. And just want to thank you, Lisa, have me on your show. You're, you're such a huge to so many of us. I was just in our morning meeting with our marketing team this morning and I said, I'm, I'm, I'm on your show. And, and yeah, one of the girls was like, Oh my gosh. So she was pretty excited to have me talking to you. And so yeah, you've been [inaudible] huge inspiration for her and you know, for all of us about how to how to, how to live life. Oh, thanks so much. Everything you do.

Speaker 2: (41:59)
Oh, really appreciate that Ben. Cause it is, I love, I love [inaudible] just hanging out with people that are like-minded mentality and who are doing good in the world. And, and I do encourage everybody out there listening to go and check out being on Instagram, on, on Facebook and in follow the BPO blog. Because I am, I get regularly convene and I'm always learning. It's always something new and it's always something that's really key for our health and performance, which is what the show was all about, elevating human performance. Ben, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it,

Speaker 3: (42:34)
Go on, hanging out. Thank you, Lisa, and we'll say, well, I will play safe everyone.

Speaker 1: (42:42)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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We are all facing scary and uncertain times right now and learning ways to mitigate fear and anxiety and tools to help reduce stress and help you make better decisions are really important right now.

Mental toughness coach Lisa Tamati shares her insights on how to thrive in the tough times and how to keep control over your physiology.

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to
https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni...
Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program
https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige...
measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:
https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. Welcome back again, I hope you guys are okay during this coronavirus crisis. That's certainly a big change for us. And today because of that, I wanted to do a session on how to not meet fear, get the better of you all my tips and tricks for helping stay focused at this tough time and how you can stay on track. Um, before I go over to the actual interview, I wanted to, um, remind you that I've just released my book relentless. It is available on my website. Um, you can, I'll put it in the show notes, but you can just hit on over to lisatamati.com and under the shop button you'll find it, the F I'd love you to check it out. And it's actually really good book for this type of crisis because it's all about mindset and it's all about how to keep focus and how to deal with, you know, going up against great odds and really difficult and uncertain times.

Speaker 2: (01:02)
So you want to check that out. That's relentless how a mother and daughter defied the odds. Go over to my website and check that out. Also at running hot coaching, we've got a special going on at the moment for 12 weeks during this whole lockdown time and in the whole coronavirus wanted to be able to offer extra value and to make it, you know, really affordable for people because we have a whole, not only the running programs now we have a full live workout program that you can do and it's only $49 US dollars to join for the 12 weeks. So if we'd been sitting on the fence for awhile thinking about joining us now would be a perfect time to do that. Especially if you're in lockdown and you want your running training programs and at home workouts. All of it's in there right over to the show.

Speaker 2: (01:46)
Hi guys, just want me to do a session on not letting fear get the better of you. So about the mix of crosses with the coronavirus, we're probably feeling a lot of fear right now. There's a lot of uncertainty there. Jobs are in dangerous and some of us are incomes and so on. So I wanted to do some practical tips that you can do to control the fear response in your body. Because number one, if you have a fear response going on right now, your immune system is going to be compromised and that's not going to be good as if you're going to be fighting this far as which we hope you won't be. But if you are, you want to make sure your immune system is, is up and running. So the first thing that I want you to look into is done for medic breathing, deep dogmatic breathing.

Speaker 2: (02:30)
Every time you start to feel out of control, feel triggered, feel stress is to do some deep breathing in through the nose, holding for about four seconds out for four seconds and hold for four seconds. Now that is called box breathing. Now you can do it in a different rhythm. If you've got a really good set of lungs, you might get to seven or eight holding it for that long and doing this just I do this 10, 11 times a day. It's, it's my go to as soon as I'm feeling triggered, as soon as I'm starting to feel upset. Now what does deep do? Well, it stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system. You have to submit two nervous systems, your parasympathetic and sympathetic. You want to be stimulating it this time. And there's a lot of fear around a lot of anxiety. The parasympathetic. Now when you stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, you are lowering the levels of cortisol and adrenaline that are being produced.

Speaker 2: (03:23)
Now these are hormones that are really for fight or flight. So back in the caveman days, which our body is still, you know, back there, we haven't evolved to being really where we are in our current world. So we still react to, uh, outside simulates some, you know, I was fear. So back in the day we might've been running away from a tiger, right? And so we needed this fight or flight response. So the amygdala, which is a part of your brain, deep in your brain, that's your limbic brain, that reptilian brain and its mediate responses to put up your heart, a heart rate, increase your breathing rate, uh, make you shit shallow breathe. It causes in your vision so that you have tunnel vision. Uh, it takes away blood from your prefrontal cortex and gives it all the blood into your muscles and so that you're ready to either fight off or run away.

Speaker 2: (04:13)
One of the two, the final fight syndrome, you'll know the SES. So that's all control where the medulla, now when you do this, you are taking away energy from your immune system, from your rest and recovery system. And you know, this was a great thing back in the day when we were had periodic stress was situations where we needed to run away from the line really fast. But in our day and age we are constantly bombarded with things like emails or problems with work or a phone call from your shitty boss or something that causes the same response. And it can get to the level where it's chronically your chronic amount of stress and you are constantly in this fight or flight state. So at this time when the coronavirus is here and you've got all this uncertainty, it's really, really important that we start to calm down the parasympathetic nervous system or stimulate, sorry, the parasympathetic nervous system and get things quiet and down.

Speaker 2: (05:10)
Stop the release of that cortisol and that adrenaline going full bore. And now you want those things at certain times but not constantly because you want your immune system to be operating well and you want to be thinking really clearly and there is a break in your decision making ability when you are in the stressed out state. So going back to the deep breathing now, this deep breathing technique will instantly, and I made really, really quickly start to calm the body down. Another great technique of course is meditation. And this doesn't have to be, you know, sitting on the floor, cross legged in an absolute silence that works for a lot of people and it's fantastic if you can quiet your brain down that way. But it also could just be going for a walk outside and we're all a little bit limited in what we're still at the moment allowed to go outside into get some fresh air.

Speaker 2: (06:01)
And that brings me to the next point. It's taking, you know, um, control of, of some of the things that you can and not focusing on the things that you can't control right now. Taking control of the basics, good hydration, good nutrition, good sleep habits. All of these things are going to help you to stay in control and make good decisions. Okay. And not focusing just on the negative. The next technique that I wanted to give you is visualization. Now I use this a lot with my athletes and I've certainly used it in my career as an athlete. Visualizing a positive outcome. Visualizing yourself as if it's in a, if it's an a running race, obviously envisaging the whole race and the more real you can make this visualization, the bidder in the cause that we are facing, visualize yourself being in control and being healthy.

Speaker 2: (06:51)
Visualize yourself and being able to adapt really quickly to this, to the situations at hand and you're getting on top of it and your business is going to be okay and your job is going to be all right. And when you visualize, your brain doesn't differentiate between what is real and what is imagined and okay, you can't control whether you're going to lose your job next week. You can't control movies outside variables, but you can stop your body going into this panic state because that isn't going to help anybody. What you want is your decision making ability on fire. So these visualization techniques can help you to start to regulate that into see a positive outcome. The next thing I want you to think about is the challenge versus threat scenario. So if we see something is a threat, and let's be honest, the crime viruses a bloody big threat right now to everything, to our health, to our loved ones, health to our society.

Speaker 2: (07:50)
But if we can start to really position they in their minds to see it more as an opportunity or a challenge, then that changes the way we perceive it and we are able to then coat a whole lot better. I'll give you an example from a noncurrent divorce situation, but again from my aesthetic Korea, okay, so if I'm looking at this massive race that I'm doing, it might be in death Valley, it might be in the [inaudible] and the Gobi desert or a Niger. Now, as I'm saying that as a threat and it's going to be terrifying and it's gonna be horrific, then guess what's going to happen? My body's going to shut down. I'm going to be in the fight or flight mode. I'm not going to be reacting really well. I'm not going to be coping when you, well, if I can reframe it in my mind to being an amazing opportunity to have this wonderful adventure and to have to turn it into a challenge in an a, an ability to be able to see this in a positive light.

Speaker 2: (08:48)
And I want you to think about this. Cisco rhino virus is going to give us some benefits. There are some good things that are going to come out of it for each and every one of us. It might be a complete pervert in your lives and you're going to end up doing another job and get out of that dead end job that you've been stuck in but too scared to leave and now you have to leave. So you're going to have to think and learn and redirect. Maybe that's going to be a good thing at the end of the day, none of us actually know. So they're good. They could be real positive things. Going back to a situation like with my mum and I've, you know, I've got my books here in the background. This the story is a really powerful one for the situation that we're going through.

Speaker 2: (09:28)
When I was faced with mom's aneurysm and that's the fact that she was probably not going to survive and if she did, she was going to have massive brain damage, which she did have and that she was never going to do anything again and I could've taken that prognosis. And just accepted it and taking no action and stayed on decided, no, I'm going to use this. These people telling me that there's no chance and there's no way I'm going to use that as motivation to prove them wrong and I'm going to make this the greatest comeback story and I'm going to get my mum back. And those were the thoughts that I feed into my mind so that I was able to take big, strong action and so that I was able to cope with the stresses that were come at us and it's been, you know, a four year long battle, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2: (10:12)
There were times when I was on the ground balling my eyes out and not knowing which way to go forward. The thing is I did keep moving forward and I did keep looking for the next decision. I hate to make the next situation. The next opportunity and that attitude of going all in is one is lead to him miraculous recovery. This is a one in a million recovery, but it's not a one in a million because she was anything special or because I'm anything special. It was a one in a million recovery because we never even gave up and we kept fighting and we looked for the opportunities and we saw the beauty in this process, and this is why I've written the book, is because I want other people to have a blueprint for your mindset and what it takes to go all in on a challenge.

Speaker 2: (10:57)
And in this Corrado bar situation, we're going to have to go all in. Some of us, this is gonna be, you know, a threat to our incomes and our lifestyles and a massive of change. And we can either crawl up into a facial ball and start crying our eyes out and go, well I can't take any action or we could be warriors and we can stand up and go. Not a lot. I'm not going to take this line down. I'm going to go down sliding if I'm going to go down in going all in with this, with a situation with mum, I know that I could have done all of that and still failed and still lost here. That wasn't the point though. I had no option but to go all that because the alternative was certain days in certain loss. So I had a tiny chance and I took that tiny chance and when everybody told me it was impossible, I just kicked all moving and kept ignoring the people that told me it was bad.

Speaker 2: (11:49)
So right now what you also want to be doing is surrounding yourself with positive people. If you're listening to this, but you know this video, then you probably want of those people that is looking for a positive input and good messages. And that's fantastic because you are the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So if you are around positive people who have a direction, who are saying, right guys, this is the way we're going and this is why we're going to think this is the way forward. And you start listening to positive messages instead of the ones who are, Oh my God, the world is ending. It's apocalypse now and it's all going to be horrific. And you know, like we all have moments like there, don't get me wrong that I don't have those moments, but I keep them in check.

Speaker 2: (12:34)
And then I turned my mind around again and I tune it again and I tune it again. Every time those negative thoughts come up, I start to turn them around. So I wanted to now talk about, uh, exposure therapy. Now this is another therapy that can be really, really helpful if you are feeling a lot of fear. Now this is not exposure to the virus. We don't want that. But this is like when you are feeling fear for a certain situation or a certain thing that you have to do. And it might be like having to change your profession because you know someone's going to has to. Um, I want you to understand that the more you do something, the more it's going to be, the less you're going to be reacting to it. So I'll just give you a simple example of getting on phone calls.

Speaker 2: (13:19)
If you hate sales calls, which I used to hate doing sales calls. Now I've changed my perception of what that call is about in term repetition and doing it over and over and over again. It becomes actually a conversation with a friend if the coms nothing to be scared of and most of the things that we face in our life that we are scared of are actually not physical threats. Okay. The coronavirus could be a physical threat to you or your loved ones. I'm not mitigating them, but a lot of the fee is that we have running around in their tummy and then their minds at the moment that it's just going around and around like a hamster wheel is things that I'm never ever going to happen. I even say that the thoughts that we have in our head, the disasters scenarios that we're playing out are not going to happen, so why focus on it?

Speaker 2: (14:07)
Why not put your energies into focusing on how can I make this the best opportunity for me, for my business, for my profession? How can I help other people? How can I turn this into something that is good for me and my world and my business? I am using this as an opportunity to pivot, to change very quickly, to be adaptable. And I've lost my income. I'll be honest with you, at least six months, I don't have any income. Now I'm a speaker. That's what I do. I go around to conferences, well there are not conferences going on, but I'm not going to sit here and start crying about it. I'm gonna change my perception of what I can do. And then I'm going to pivot really quickly into doing other things and focusing on the positive and they don't get to be prepared also for when life comes back to normal.

Speaker 2: (14:52)
And we'll we go again. So it's your perception of things is controlling your thoughts. Now I want you, I'm also studying at the moment the functional genomics and this is the study of DNA and genes and how they affect the way everything in your body from methylation to mood and behavior to cardiovascular health, to um, detoxification. All of these areas. Okay. But I wanted to talk to you briefly about a couple of the genes that are in your head and I won't go on to the specifics. I'm going to be writing a couple of blog posts, uh, over the next few weeks and I'm still studying this area of science, but it's absolutely fascinating. There are a couple of genes that really, um, control or give you a predisposition to thinking a certain way and you can get yourself tested and DNA and all that sort of stuff later on when all this crosses over and you find out what you have a predisposition for, um, your edge or to being a gene for example, sample, which is y our adrenal, uh, Jane, if you like, the pains are which variation of the gene as to how long that adrenal and is going to be active on your sip as in your body.

Speaker 2: (16:03)
And if it's, if you've got the gene where it's going to be attached it to the recipients for a long time and active, you're going to have a harder time meeting golf things. You're going to have a harder time, you're going to have a stronger emotional and printer reaction to things. Um, then another person, another saying is that the brain derived neurotrophic neurotrophic factor, which I'm writing a blog post on now because this has to do with brain rehabilitation, but it also has to do with your mood and your behavior and the how, how susceptible you are to depression and a negative frame of mind. And if you have that, the hamster wheel brain that goes over and over and over. So what I want you to take away from this, without getting into the specifics of which Jane is to realize that every single person is different.

Speaker 2: (16:49)
Hey, do have a different set of genes. And so we all do experience things in a different way. So if you have someone in your most ho is very prone to panic, is very prone to having neurotic thoughts or the hamster wheel going over and over and getting stuck in a thought pattern and not being able to shift at least understanding some of the factors that are in play here and that their genes just may be predisposing them to doing that. And I'm going to share this blog post that I'm writing at the moment on BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor and what you can do to increase set, uh, in order to help elevate your mood. One of those things for example, is to uh, for the baby and is a example. This is to go and do exercise. Now if you're doing at least 30 to 45 minutes of exercise at 70 to 75% of your heart rate, you're going to increase the production of brain derived neurotrophic and that's going to elevate your mood.

Speaker 2: (17:51)
And this is why I run, let's get the run is high and I know all of us just enjoy running for the running site. Sometimes we don't even feel like going out there, but after half an hour out there, what happens? You mood elevates. What's that? There's some brain derived neurotrophic factor, inaction, other things that also stimulate that and what elevates your mode. Things like having a hot shower or hot bath or being in a hot warm environment or getting more sunlight to make more vitamin D, which will also help you produce more brain derived neurotrophic factor. All of these things are really important also in the brain rehab side, but I won't go into that right now, but just to understand, genetically speaking, we all have different ways of processing things in our brain and having some love and care and empathy for people who've, who don't see them.

Speaker 2: (18:39)
Some things the same way as you do, who react very differently and some people will have more a deeper emotional imprint. Then other people, some people will be able to get over things much easier because they have the right combination of genes and another person doesn't have that. That is not to be fatalistic and say, well, those people are babied, is to find out the what can you do? Like the saunas and the hot bows and the exercise and the right supplementation and all of that sort of stuff to help you if you are one of those people affected, increase or head of HIPAA. What resilience when it comes to your emotional wellbeing. So more about that later, but for today's podcast it just wants you to think about some of those things that I've covered off. So I want you to be stimulating your parasympathetic nervous system.

Speaker 2: (19:31)
That means calming your body down. That means stopping the stress and the adrenaline, the cortisol from pouring out all day, all day long. How are you going to do that? You're going to do that through meditation to that true connection to nature, which I've forgotten to mention. You know, like going outside, listening to the birds, looking at the beauty in the trees, looking at the flowers, standing and staring at the beach. If you're still allowed to do that, anything that will connect you and ground you to mother nature will calm your system down. Doing a exercise of course is also going to do there anything that's going to calm the system down. However one portion, don't go and do extremes, amounts of exercise because that will have the opposite effect. Don't overreach at this time. Firstly for your immune system and also for your, you don't want to upset your whole minds and get everything out of balance.

Speaker 2: (20:23)
Okay, so you want to be, um, a little bit conservative with your training at the moment. Just nice chain tool and doing things like working in and state of just working out. So not just the, you know, running and breathing and hard, hard work, but also aiding and the stretching, the, the yoga, the plankung. So things that are going to calm the body down, especially in the evening when you're wanting to get that slate. Because remember, sleep is absolute King, so doing these basics right and getting good sleep, if you can get it. I was sleep right now would be really gold. It'll help you emotionally cope with the situation and not fall off the DPN and be short tempered and doing all those crazy things. Now, just before I go, you have this thing in the, in the Brian like I said, called the amygdala, which is a very formative part of the brain that controls a lot of these trigger responses.

Speaker 2: (21:16)
And you know, in the past, I'll be honest with you, I've had a lot of problems with anger management. So I think I've got some warrior dreams from my, my Maori side, either that or the German or Irish sort of data. Um, and I've been triggered in the past and reacted in ways that I, you know, was not proud of afterwards. Um, and also learning to, to manage these reactions. Now a lot better. I wouldn't sound perfect, but I'm a lot bitter. The amygdala reacts before your, uh, your prefrontal cortex kicks into gear. It's very primitive. It's very lightning fast. So if you're feeling triggered right now, you know one of the things that I'm worried about in this crosses is the mystic piece going up is people doing things that they wouldn't normally do because they are stressed out and they're frightened and they're doing all these things and they were make deliver, starting to take control.

Speaker 2: (22:07)
So I want you to learn just a couple of trucks to keep it under control. One of them is that deep breathing, if you're feeling triggered, if you started to have fights in the family cause you're in close quarters, you've got the kid screaming, you don't know how you're going to pay the bills, your businesses going on the and you're fighting and you know this, this is all us. I think we are all feeling this type of stress right now. Then getting a controlling amygdala and not acting in a triggered state. You know, walking away, going to the other end of the house, doing some deep breathing, starting to tune your logical brain on the way I do this. And getting blood back to the logical brain. Cause the amygdala takes it away from the and helps you, makes you make bad decisions. The rang, I get a controller that as I start to do some logical problem solving things in my brain, like counting backwards from a hundred and lots of seven and I have to go, Oh, how much is that 193 and so on.

Speaker 2: (23:04)
And I have to actually think about it. And that makes me calm down again and gives me a chance to get on top of that adrenaline and cortisol that's come out and makes me want to have a scratch. Um, cause that's not good. And what you're doing when you get into this triggered state also in, in the anger response is you, uh, releasing the cortisol, which is, which is pumping out your blood sugars. So remember those begin angry and you're going to weight problems. You making things worse. You're going to put on more weight because you've increased your cortisol, you're going to leave the four have, have more, a whole warfare. Okay. So there's one, there's a really good reason not to get angry and to stay cool and calm. And this is one of the reasons why doing yoga and [inaudible] and all of those debriefing and all that actually helps you lose weight, which is not the topic of today's conversation, but it does say it because it's actually lowering the cortisol, the stress levels in the body.

Speaker 2: (24:01)
Interesting, isn't it? How we, uh, such complex characters and if we understand more about our physiology and our biology and how things actually interplay, then they can really, really help us in overcoming all these challenges that we're facing. So that's makes us very, guys, I hope this has been helpful to you or please decide that the, or if you want to reach out to me, please do. I'm, you know, this is what I, I'm begging to the mental game. I'm big into the mindset and mental toughness and leadership in, you know, um, some of the lessons that I've learned along in my now quite long nights, um, and sharing those insights with you. Not from a place of I know better because God knows I still have a hell of a lot of things to learn. But from applied, so via I've, I've experienced a few things, bring around the block a few times and wanting to share some of these insights.

Speaker 2: (24:53)
I do that also on my podcast, which is called pushing the limits. I would love you to go and subscribe to pushing the limits because I have some of the greatest minds. I don't know how I get some of these amazing people on the air, but I do, if you look back over the episodes that I've managed to record in the last four years, you've got Nobel prize winning scientists. You've got, you know, some of the top scientists actually in the world, some of the top doctors in the world, some of the top athletes in the world. And I'm not exaggerating, there's been some absolute legends on my show. Say, you know, I be a good way to spend a few of those nails we stuck at home. Um, uh, listening to the podcast is called pushing the limits. You can find it on iTunes, on Lipson, on Stitcher, or via my website, at least at [inaudible] dot com and while you're the gone grab one of my books, one of my friends, uh, especially running this right now is a super book for you to be reading, to strengthen your mind. And, um, really thank you for your time today. And we'll see you again soon.

Speaker 1: (25:49)
that's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Everyday runners Krista and Guy share their ultramarathon experiences int his candid interview with Lisa. This lovely couple from Vermont in the USA are the voices behind "Blue Collars Runners" a site and blog dedicated to sharing the stories of everyday people doing crazy ultramarathons. Their mission is to entertain and inspire you by sharing the stories of everyday runners. People from all walks of life, with different backgrounds, challenges, abilities and dreams. Krista and Guy are so honored to tell these stories, of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, as they shine a light on the human spirit. You may even find yourself wondering what you are truly capable of. You can read their wonderful inspiring stories at: www.bluecollarruners.com and in the prestigious "Ultrarunning" Magazine. Guy and Krista Alderdice live in the hills of Vermont with their two teenage sons, Justin and Jase. Guy found his passion for running later in life, running his first marathon at age 35. Krista, having run in high school, reconnected to running after a serious horse accident. Through their love of running, they've made many connections with folks just like them. Blue Collar Runners is a place to rejoice in the everyday runners. Whether you love to run on dirt, pavement, treadmill, beaches or mountains. If you are a streak runner, mile runner, 100 mile runner or somewhere in between. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to
https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni...
Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

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measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:11)
Hi everyone. Welcome back this week. I hope you are doing all fine in your bubbles, wherever you are in the world and staying safe this week. I have a very interesting interview with a couple of very experienced ultra marathon runners guy and Krista odor dice from Vermont in the USA and they are going to share a few of their stories and they're also writers and founders of the website, bluecollarruners.com where they share everyday running stories with, with the audience. Now they also write for outdoor running magazine and I've done the Vermont 100 a famous race in the United States. Oh, I think seven, eight, nine times. And it's a really, really interesting interview about what makes them tick and about why ultra marathoning isn't just for the super athletes of the world, but for everyday people. And I hope you enjoy the show. Before I hand you over to Krista and guy, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available. You can go to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com that's relentlessbook.lisatamati.com to grab your copy. It's available right around the world. It's available in paperback, on audio and Kindle and Amazon. You name it. It's a net version. So check that out. I hope you enjoy the book. If you do get it. And I would love a review if you've read it already. So without further ado, over to Krista & Guy Alderdice.

Speaker 2: (01:44)
Well, hi everyone. Lisa here pushing the limits. Thank you once again for joining me on the show today. I've got a little treat for you. I've got some lovely, lovely, amazing runners with me all the way from USA. I've got Krista & Guy Alderdice. How are you guys doing? You guys are sitting in Vermont. Many Ultra runners will know about the Vermont 100, which is a really worldwide famous, you know, ultra Mo ultra marathon in the States. And you guys walk past your doorstep, guys, right? Yeah, we're a mile 80, 87 passes right by our driveway. Oh, you were right in the corner, right where it gets tough. It gets real tough.

Speaker 2: (02:32)
Says it today. You guys at the listing, I wanted to introduce you to Krista & Guy. These dear friends of my dear friend Ben from Yulara who's really our key man in our company at running hot coaching and he is in Connecticut and he's introduced me to these lovely people. So they're going to share a little bit these stories today around ultra marathon running and Krista & Guy, I have a website which has blue collar runners. So just www.bluecollarruners.com isn't it goes which is telling the stories from everyday runners. Is that right? Yeah, we're just spotlighting the everyday runner who just kind of inspires us people all over the U S we've spotlighted. So yeah, says entered pretty cold. So I want to dive into the background and we've been talking before we started recording and I, and I'm getting a bit of background and we're gonna have to repeat a lot of it guys.

Speaker 2: (03:33)
So you two are married, you've been together since your like high school sweethearts, is that right? Yes. Yeah, we had, we had our first date in 1991. Wow. And you've got two young boys, 15 and 17 years old. And you were finding it to a printer guy and what do you do Christopher, for a day to day job? Where are you at home or are you working? Yeah, I work for him. So kind of do the business side of it, the admin side, and then I'm helping with the writing. Oh, the hard stuff by the chef. Well, the real stuff is that it seems to be like in my household, I do all the, the, the public facing stuff and then behind me, Neil, Ben and my husband has the trying to pick up all the basics and actually do the hard yards. So so you guys are ultra marathon runners and you've been doing this now for a decade now and you super talented runners or how did you get him?

Speaker 2: (04:42)
Well, actually Krista was much more accomplished. I mean, she was a, she was a great cross country runner back in high school and, and did real well. I on the other hand, was, was not a gifted runner by any means. I played, played basketball and did very short distances in my twenties and into my mid thirties didn't run. We're more than a couple of miles over 15 years. So yeah, no, not a gifted, no gifted background for us at all. But of course if you were, you had to go to spades. I crossed it. So you had see back in high school? Probably. that's, that's since gone away and now it's run long. Yeah. I was more of an endurance rider. So I did the a hundred mile and 50 mile races on horseback. Wow. And I would see all these crazy ultra runners at the Vermont 100 when I was riding it back in the early two thousands.

Speaker 2: (05:39)
Just wondering what the heck are they doing? Like is this run simultaneously that the horse race and the the running race? Yes. It's like one of the only ones left that you are on the same course at the same time with ours in the runners. So it's pretty fascinating. Yeah, it's neat. Yeah. Huge background as an endurance horse rider. But what sort of changed that for you? I know you, you know, you had an event. Yeah. And 2015 I was badly kicked by a friend's horse, so it was a pretty bad shatter of my elbow shattered in about 10 places. So I had three surgeries and about a year. And I just needed to take a break from that side of my life and I was wondering, you know, what, what am I going to do? Like I need that kind of physical push. And luckily guy was in the midst of, you know, doing his ultra stuff, I had kind of dabbled a little bit. I had done a couple of 50 K's just more socially. Honestly just to kind of be in the community, but it was much happier on horseback. But once that was kind of shifted, then running really became kind of my, I love how you say, I just set up a couple of things.

Speaker 2: (07:03)
They were not fast. I was just kind of getting around with friends. And as far as you know, our community, we have the Vermont 50 and the Vermont 100, like right in our backyard. So it was kind of a, what do you always call them?

Speaker 3: (07:18)
Yeah, our, our town. We've also just said that this town is kind of an outlier because we're a switch, only about a thousand people in this town and, but there's the per capita ultra runners are pretty crazy because it's, you know, it's right in our backyard. All these big, big events,

Speaker 2: (07:32)
Easy entry. It's kind of easy to get sucked in. Yeah. You sort of saw it happening in going past your doorstep literally everyday. So you sort of sucked into that world. And it's a beautiful part of America, isn't it? It's a beautiful place. It's gorgeous. It's quiet. It's a beautiful place to raise kids. And I think in, in our oldest son Justin's class, I would say out of the 20 parents, didn't we figure if Dean had done like the Vermont 50? I mean it's pretty, pretty fascinating. Like I think everybody is outdoors a lot. It's

Speaker 3: (08:11)
Yeah, I mean you can, you can literally walk out, you know, you walk out of your back door and you're on dirt roads, trails. The amount of Scott is, is a mile two miles away. So there's a playground right outside of our door that we, you know, so we're really lucky.

Speaker 2: (08:24)
You're very lucky. You were definitely very lucky. So I mean that's quite interesting. When you say like so many of the parents that you could saw with a ultra marathon runners, do you think, cause a lot of people think that ultra marathon running is only for the elite and only for the super gifted and the super tough. What do you, what do you say to that? What do you think about that?

Speaker 3: (08:47)
Oh yeah. We, we know from experience that nothing could be further from the truth. Then the first year I ran my first 100 I ran it with two friends, lived in town,

Speaker 2: (08:56)
A guy named Fred and a guy named Jim and myself. The three of us were, I mean, we had no special skills. We had, we weren't great planners and we all went out and tackle this a hundred mile run. You know, despite people telling us we were crazy and family members, you know, no one can be, most people never heard of it. You know, this wasn't even an event. So, but over the next few years, the three of us went out. We all, at one point, we all got to finish all of us. And so, and we just, it was just what I learned is, I mean, 90% of this I think is mental, you know, just that mental toughness. Yeah. And along the way isn't it? Yeah. so I know you said back in 2011 when you guys sort of started or you know, you got underway and that you did have no idea.

Speaker 2: (09:48)
You would just, like you said, you turned up on the format socks and, and we had, we, our gear was, was I ran, I was running in just like 86 basic road shoes. I had a Socks from Walmart. I had no special foods. I mean I hadn't done any research and, but we just went out there and you know, my aid station to aid station and we just, what we've found over the years is we just, it really became about being outside and just, you know, seeing how far you could, you know, how far you can push yourself. And, and honestly, I think we, all of us pushed each other, you know, and it was just that social part of it was a big thing. I think I was starting to wind down and then Krista, you know, got into it and then I kind of rejuvenated me because some of my friends were moving on and doing other things. And so when Krista came in 2015 and then we kind of just, you know, if it started doing more, I know it is the famous just one more. That's right. That's right. So yeah, there's a lot of things always sound good on paper. You know, when you come up with these ideas on runs with friends and you're like, what did I agree to? And you know, I can do that. I definitely know that problem when you're reading something on a website.

Speaker 2: (11:20)
I've had a few, I've had a few times where I opened my email and I've been, and I get an email saying, you know, thanks for signing up for this race. And I'm like, I didn't, I have no idea. Come to find out. Krista's signed us up for a race and I guess now I just get used to it. That's right. I hacked into his ultra sign up to how many things that you do? Oh, you running together? You know, hadn't you find it as a couple? Like I met with my husband, I can't, we did do runs together, but we don't run much anymore together because we're a different paces now. He's got better. I've also slowed down and got up, gotten older and been doing it for too long in the tooth, I think. And he w w we, we end up arguing.

Speaker 2: (12:16)
How do you guys find that as a couple? I think, I think for us it's like really therapeutic. Like we figured a lot of things out in the runs, like whether it's, you know, things we talk about, about the kids, like any issues they're having or I don't know, I don't really know how to explain it, but it's a time that we can just be really free of anything. So like it just, everything comes out. Mmm. And, and literally like, like I said before, before the podcast, like we do everything together. So like I said, if anyone sees one, it's usually the other. And he's way faster than me. Yeah. There's, if we're doing any sort of speed work, like he'll just go ahead and then come back or any sort of like speed work, which we're not the greatest staff. He'll just kind of go, go a little bit ahead and I'll just, it gives me a push to try to keep up with them.

Speaker 2: (13:10)
As far as, yeah. And then I think, and then when in terms of like race day, we're kind of both on the same page, is that we're, we're not really that worried about, you know, how great our time is. We're, we're, we're definitely finishers. You know, first we wanna we want to finish and, and know, we know we're never gonna be elite, you know, we're never going to be in that cream of the crop. I mean, some of the times these, these are the athletes put up or just they blow my mind. Unbelievable. So yeah, we're pretty happy being just kind of, you know, we just chug along and, you know, crank the miles out. So yeah. So that, so usually we just, you know, we run one of the hundred miles we ran the whole thing together. That was a special start and finish the whole thing together. Pretty magical. That was 2000. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all have to be on the same page as far as, you know, Asha or, yeah, yeah, yeah. Feeling good when well occasionally, you know, on a, on a, on a long run, in, in a, in a event, if one of us is feeling junky, the other one would say just go ahead. And, you know, cause I'm usually when you're feeling, you know, you feel junky, you want to be alone anyways. Yeah. You're a grumpy, horrible person.

Speaker 2: (14:29)
I'm nauseous and I hear like a little rapper opening on like, Oh, I can't eat, eat. So just go ahead. Don't eat around me. But how many of the promote 100 if you've got a son, a hundred miler. So I've done three and I've done eight on horseback. So three on foot.

Speaker 3: (14:53)
Yeah. And I, and I'm the CEO and this, let's see, I've, I ran in I ran nine of them and I've finished seven at a nine. Wow, that's amazing. And we always tell people it's such a family thing for us because yeah, since 2001, I think we've been to every single year except for, well, 2002, she had our our son, Justin Christie given birth a couple of weeks before. So we missed that year. Other than that, other than she was a slacker, slacker that year. But yeah, we've been, that we've been to and seen since our kids were babies. They've been to every single, because when they were babies, she was riding, I was crewing and so I'd be changing diapers and you know, strollers at aid stations and then now our kids and that's come full circle where the kids are crewing us. And now last year our oldest son ran the last like 13 or 14 miles in with Krista. Yeah. So we've seen it, you know, from little infants to now, you know, they're taller, taller than us.

Speaker 2: (15:59)
So the future is bright. We want, we want to see some more. So now I want to talk to you, a rotting guy in the blue, calmer that we call a Rana's website and the stories that you tell and you write for ultra running magazine, which is a very prestigious ultra marathon running naked scene. What sort of stories do you tell guys? What, what's sort of you know, the background into that?

Speaker 3: (16:30)
Yeah. So, so we always were fascinated. I mean, my whole life I've always been fascinated me reading memoirs and curious about people's stories. So this was kind of a natural thing for us. We've met a lot of nice people in town through the sport and in, in, in races. So we just said what we were out for a run about a year and a half ago and we just had this idea, you know, we've always called ourselves blue collar runners cause we're always just kinda like, did we always felt like we were just, you know, scraping by and getting through it. So yeah, he just started. We just say, well, and what we've found is with law as we've, we said, well, every once a month we just interview, we interview someone. And then we, we write their story and ultra running magazine and their online column. Well, we just found that people that are doing these crazy, you know, feats and challenges generally, there's a really good story. You know, why they're doing it. And we've, we've talked to people that have been through addiction of I tried to commit suicide too. Health issues to family issues to, and you realize some of the people that we knew in town pretty well once we interviewed and we found out things we never knew. And so we just, we bunked you've just met really cool people and now it's, we have this neat platform to tell their story, you know, tell it does again, average runners,

Speaker 2: (17:50)
You know, have jobs and have families or, and, and running is kind of a side thing. It's not the way they make their living, but they're doing just incredible things. And then any, they all have really big hearts like theirs. You know what I mean? There, there's just this neat push to do something big. Mmm. But they're just, yeah. I mean, this is, this is a couple of themes running through those stories by the sounds of it. And this is my experience too in dealing with lots of, you know, ultra runner, crazy people and myself as well. I know that, you know, running, saved my life. Literally. I, you know, I'm going through some terrible things and, and again, and again that's picked me up and given me my life back and my confidence back and my self esteem and channeled my Oh, I've got a bit of an addictive personality and if I don't do, if it didn't do running or working, I think stupid. So I it is a way of channeling my energies and so on. And I think a lot of people can, can understand that who are ultra marathon miners said it and it helps you deal with issues and helps you rebuild your life. And, and these are sort of byproducts that, that people outside of the running or the ultra running community especially, but even the running community don't, don't see as a benefit of running, but it's actually a mental health based mental health thing I've ever done.

Speaker 2: (19:23)
Yeah. And that seems to be a same that that does run, you know, you do get some deep stories when you're interact with people and some people have been through some terrible things and running his saved them and help them out of the muck, you know? Yeah, a lot of them weren't runners per se, you know, they didn't grow up, you know, running cross country or they didn't grow up. Having someone that they ran with it, it's how running kind of came into their life at that perfect time and they really needed to lean on it. So you know, and I know for me personally, it came back, you know, after I got injured and I, I did, I leaned on it big time and outside and to, you know, feel your heart pounding and feel that wind in your hair.

Speaker 2: (20:10)
And you know, it doesn't matter how far you go or how long you go or how fast you go, but it's just there and I feel lucky for that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like they've primal, there's a primal instinct that is missing in our everyday lives, mostly now in our modern day world. And it answers a lot of those biological and instinctive and ancestral sort of needs for us. So that need to push our bodies to, to survive and the in the outdoors and to be able to overcome and to actually, you know, like expel all this energy that we have which is sometimes a negative and or an anger or a grief or, you know, I I often come back from long runs, especially where you've given your role or rices and you just, you, you, you, it's so fantastic. The pain that you go through physically sometimes is, is it's a mean tool release part of the draw card and it's not what like I don't think you and I would sit here and say we like pain cause a lot of people, you're a masochist or something.

Speaker 2: (21:31)
Not at all. I don't like, I do see the benefits on pushing through pain or through suffering or had moments in a, in an event or training because it does teach you so, so much about who the heck you are. And that's something that my listeners hear me preach a lot, but I think that is, that is a very true thing. And he'd agree with it. Yeah. More. And when we always talk about it, we'll be doing something, whether it's work related or life w we, we always say we lean back on those ultra lessons that we learn because we're just, you just some of the things you're doing out there, you does, it converts over to, to real life situations and mental toughness kind of, you know, pushing through hard times. Yeah. And then the metaphors are there all over the place, but yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: (22:25)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, people hit me to have my story with mom and that's definitely like a Humvee, 100% of all of that, that, that resilience, that consistent, that real manelessness come from being an athlete and doing this sort of stuff. And so, so many benefits of people. And that's why, you know, I love encouraging people to get into running or any sport. But running is a, is a, is it, I think it's one that, again, going back to our ancestral ways, this is how we used to communicate this and how we used to get from one village to the next, the one, you know, we didn't have cars and everything else and, and it's the most instinctive, natural form of movement that we don't. And even in thing, you know, walking, running, you know, whatever in doing ultra-marathons there's a heck of a lot of walking isn't there? Oh my gosh. Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: (23:21)
Race. The race is a loosely defined term, you know, death shuffle, shuffle. So you know, I love to share some of your stories like I've asked you guys, you know, hopefully we can share some of your stories within the hour, you know, running hot coaching out online club and also on our websites and stuff. And you know, what I love about this is a being connected through our frame vendors that we've disconnecting. You know, the USA with new Zealanders, with Australians who listen to this podcast. It's mostly my audience, New Zealand and Australia. We have got other people in other places as well, but at say international illness, you know, but we all have the shared love of, of running and ultra marathon running and Beecher and nature and you know, for one side of the road to the other with these stories. And I think that that's, that's pretty damn cool.

Speaker 2: (24:16)
I just love that. You know, I think it's exciting. I think that's really neat. Yeah. It makes us feel more together and it's not in this crosses right now. We need to feel together. You know, like you guys are facing some really, really tough times in America. I think way worse than what we are experiencing. And if we can, you know, again, in this Karina time, we need to pull together, we need to focus, we need the strengths that are run as heavy, you know, push through these tough times and not give up. Tom's, he gotta to get tough for a lot of people. And you being a financial advisor guy would probably know, you know, lots of horror stories coming your way. And, and being able to help people through this sort of a crisis, I think you know, in having good stories always does that.

Speaker 2: (25:07)
So, you know, I just wanted to say thanks for coming on today and for sharing your, your stories and for connecting with us down at the other end of the ears. And I hope one day that I'm actually going to be able to come and poverty won't run for malts anymore. I'm retired now, but I might come and know what you guys do. One that would be so cold. You never know. What would be your, like if you had a couple of messages for people listening out there who have never run in their lives and think that this is only for the super Tufts super cold, super amazing athletes, they want me to say to that? Yeah, I think I would say aye. I think we, I think as, as humans we just, we always are putting limits on what we can do.

Speaker 2: (26:00)
And we're always kind of, you know, it's almost like I hear so many people say, well, I have bad knees or I can't, I just can't do it. Right. There's, you know, and Jen, obviously some people probably can't do it, you know, not everyone can. And we're lucky to have you know, I've, I've run the show I'm with, with, with farmers and carpenters and Marines and every, every segment of life out there. I've seen people doing these things and I mean age. Yeah. I mean just people in their, in their seventies doing, doing a hundred miles. So we see the whole spectrum. I think the biggest thing is, you know, just get out there and do it. Just start with something, you know, even if it's a couple of him and if it's walk a half mile, walk a mile and just get out there. And if it's something, I think you'd be amazed what you can, what you can do. And then, and again, we're, we're here to tell you we are, I'm Todd, we are his averages. Again, there's nothing special about Austin.

Speaker 2: (26:59)
I mean you can, you can do a lot more than you than you think is possible. I think that's my, and I think to have the courage to try and then, and not worry about failing and running for me, like a little tidbit is I don't care if you, if you run a hundred miles a week or one mile a week, that first mile is the hardest every, every day, every night. So I think sometimes he will get to that mile and they're like, it's just too hard. But if you know that it's hard for everybody, no matter how often you run or how long you run. I mean, I think that's my biggest take is have her smile. But after you get past that first mile, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. But that first 20 minutes of everybody's run and was even sitting, but it's for some people, right?

Speaker 2: (27:46)
For me can be worst part. And most people give up and before that, like, you know, the runners and they think that the whole time is going to be like that. And you're like, she's just getting to the good stuff. Guys. You're just warming up. Cause man, when you get to that warm up part, everything was clear on the fog goes away. Yeah. And that's why the warmups bloody important people listen for you even by writing. And then I'm preaching to myself here because I'm still, I know that I should be warming up every time and I have a much better one when I do warm up properly, we all have a tendency, I've got, I've got an hour, half an hour or an hour, I've got to go straight out the door and I'm fixing my miles and I've got to see it on Strava, you know, warm up doesn't count, so I'm not doing it. And that's dumb. That's a good way to look guys. I really appreciate you coming on today and I want to hear more. I want to she's some of the stories that you've already written and I'd love to do some more connections, you know, have some more discussions with you and the heavier now running hot sharing in being involved with us. Cause I love what you're doing and I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. We love what you're doing. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: (29:19)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over. Visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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After being hospitalised three times with stress related heart problems and burnout, which included flat-lining in the emergency room, Craig Johns realised that he needed to be more than a leader of high performance and become a high performing leader. He has now transferred those strategies into working with CEO's, senior executives, coaches and leaders from some of the world's leading companies including Nestle, P&G, Standard Chartered, JP Morgan, AIG, Boyden and Nike. Born in New Zealand, Craig has 25 successful years of experience leading, managing, coaching and providing sport science around the globe. As an elite athlete he competed at the Hawaii Ironman, four World Triathlon Championships and continues to play competitive golf. A hip replacement and second pacemaker, at the age of 30, meant a full-time shift to focusing on being a high performance leader, CEO and National Head Coach. He has coached and managed 3x Olympians, 10x World Championship athletes, 21x national champions and a 3x Ironman Japan Champion. He has worked with world leaders such as the Dalai Lama, Mind and Life Institute, WTA Tennis, IRONMAN Triathlon, United World College and over 100 Olympians and World Champions. Living in 5 countries. In this interview Lisa and Craig do a deep dive into avoiding burnout and managing your perfromance over the long haul. About top leadership and how to manage your health and mental wellbeing in order to be the best you can be. You can find out more about Craig at www.nrg2perform.com and about Craigs speaking services at www.craigjohnsspeaker.com We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by LisaTamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:11)
Hi everyone and welcome to pushing the limits today. I have a fantastic episode with the amazing Craig Johns now Craig Johns is originally from my hometown from Taranaki, but living now in Canberra, in Australia. Now. Craig is the CEO and founder of energy to perform. He's a CEO himself. Uh, he has a background in 25 years global experience working in the sport health, mind, education and hospitality industries and he loves to help him become high performing leaders. He's also coached at the elite level Olympians, triathletes, world champion athletes, um, across a number of areas. And he is really at the top of his game as far as, uh, human performance. And I was really privileged to be on his show last weekend. He's agreed to become, come onto my show this week. So you're in for a really interesting session. If you want to know about being a high performance leader.

Speaker 2: (01:07)
If you want to know about high performance and sport, then this is the man you need to listen to. Um, just before I hand over to Craig now, just want to remind you my book relentless is now available and still seeing now copies. So if you hop over to relentlessbook.lisatamati.com you can order there and you can order audio books, eBooks, Kindle, Amazon, you name it, all the options are there for you to see, uh, to, to purchase that book. Um, I had the privilege of having a wonderful online book launch just a couple of nights ago and we're going to be doing, uh, a weekly one of these. So if you want to join me on one of those sessions or live session with me talking about the book, of course my mum will also be there. Um, then please reach out to me and I'd love to let you know when the next one is happening. Um, you can reach out to me at Lisa, at lisatamati.com and if you enjoy the show, please don't forget to rate and review this podcast. It really, really helps us get more exposure and we have some brilliant people sharing their incredible knowledge. Right. Without further ado, over to Craig Johns .

Speaker 2: (02:19)
Well, how everyone Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you with me again. I hope you guys are all staying safe out there as best as you can in this crazy time. Yeah, I'm sitting today with the lovely Craig John's from Canberra and Craig is the CEO and founder of energy, uh, the energy to perform. So welcome to the show, Craig. Thanks for coming on board. No, Lisa, it's great to be on your show after we had a great interview the other day. Yeah, it was fantastic. So I had the privilege of being on Craig show as well. Um, active CEO, if anyone wants to go and check that out. Active CEO. Now, Craig, can you give us a little bit of background about your life and your story and what you do these

Speaker 3: (03:00)
days? Yeah, so I grew up in Taranaki as well. So from the same region, grew up on a farm, you know, a families were pretty simple. Yeah. And dad, you know, worked on a farm since he was 14 years old. He, it went through kind of the school of hard knocks and it was around our pretty rough crowd. And the teachers would say to him, look, you know, you're not going to make it in life. And when he was 14, him and his mate, they like to mess and like pee and light eating their lunch. And so they went to the principal and say, look, you know, we're wasting your time, us being here and you're wasting our time. So how about we build the furniture for your school? And so they're great to it. So they get access to the woodwork room and middleweight room and started building furniture.

Speaker 3: (03:47)
And then at the age of 14 he lifts school, went farming and retaught at 45. So I think the, uh, sort of prove them wrong in that sense. I'm a mum also came from a farming and hospitality background, her banana under a famous pub and pop Tia and you know, they, it's a lot of time spent on the farm and I think that grounding from both of them, very simple. I appreciate the small things. You work really hard and then the benefits will come and uh, from uh, an also from a sporting side. So I had a, had a fortunate too, both sides of the family have coaches, so dad's side where all around field hockey and my mom's side were all around cricket. So I had this great grounding from a sport point of view and also from coaching and leading people, which was just fantastic.

Speaker 3: (04:42)
I moved to Oakland to study, no sports science at university. I went on to do things around masters and biomechanics before hitting overseas. Uh, so my work in Auckland during that time was around sports science with some of the Olympic teams, some of the professional sports and was always coaching from the age of 15. So I love coaching swimming. So fly saving and triathlon in was working with some pretty amazing athletes during that time when I was 24 I got this call too. We've got a swimming coach opportunity for you in Taiwan. And that's kind, kinda like, well, I'm living at middle wide. I've got a beautiful view over the middle wide beach in Oakland and I've got these amazing opportunities. But I just thought, you know what, hi, I'm 24 years old, is this incredible world out there. I know nothing about Taiwan. All I think of as these, this big tall buildings. And my friend was like, no, it's really cool. There's like massive mountains. There's beautiful beaches. Amazing people. And so I thought, you know why not? So I packed up my bags at 24 and that started my worldwide adventure and have now lived in five places and wow. Currently based in Canberra. And you've done a of work in

Speaker 2: (05:58)
the triathalon space, is that correct? So tell us a little bit about some of the sort of work you've been involved with there.

Speaker 3: (06:05)
Okay. Yeah. So I've been a triathlon since I was nine years old, was my first triathlon. Wow. And so it was in my blood from quite an early space, and I naturally transitioned into triathlon where overseas I was coaching the Taiwan national team and went through to work at one of the Oh sort of most famous and beautiful splices and [inaudible] Peru kit called Tonya Perro, which is the only vice where they have, or mind how education, hospitality as an integrative approach. And so we're working with a lot of the world's top triathletes there. And then the last five and a half years I've been in Australia as a CEO of, the sport of triathlon in Canberra, and then working with the national team. So quite a, quite a big involvement. And it's just a beautiful sport with a great community.

Speaker 2: (06:55)
Yup. Okay. So what have you learned as a, as a person from being an athlete that you've taken over into your corporate world, if you like, into your business and you know what you're doing now?

Speaker 3: (07:07)
I think when you're very young and you're in sport, you learn some great basics for

Speaker 2: (07:11)
Mmm.

Speaker 3: (07:12)
Succeeding in life. So you have time management, discipline, hard work, um, overcoming adversity. You know, resilience. If we look at what's happening right now in the world around COVID-19 and coronavirus,

Speaker 3: (07:25)
it really sets you up to handle those situations well. You've experienced loss before, you've experienced hurt and pain before. You've experienced the unknown and I'm overwhelmed many times and you've always made a way out of it. Yeah. You just don't give up. You, yeah, it could be out on a, I know I bike ride and you're stuck three hours from home and you've run out of energy and battling a IDK in our headwind in it's five degrees in. You just don't want to go on any longer, but you stop playing mind games. You think positive thoughts and

Speaker 3: (08:02)
Nixon it and you just go from lampposts or lamppost or town to town. And then next minute you're like, Oh, I'm ready 20 minutes from home and you get home and it kind of feels a bit tiring and then you kind of wake up the next day and go, huh, what's next? Where's the big Nick's big talent? So I think those aspects are really good. And a sport like triathlon you, you wouldn't less than you loose. So you know, in a team sport you've got a 50% chance of winning every single time. And I was fortunate to be in a field hockey team where we never lost the game. The Stratford hockey team in the Taranaki league, they went something like 270 games straight without losing a game. So it's a record in New Zealand for any sport. And it was a phenomenal time to be part of that because I learned how to win end this awesome, great listens winning all the time.

Speaker 3: (08:56)
However, in triathlon there's also potentially a bit of side where you are learning so much because it is so difficult to win when you might have, you know, a couple of thousand people. On a start line or even if it's 50 on the start line, your chances of winning are not that high. No, you have to [inaudible] learn to deal with winning isn't everything, but what is the winning? So it may not be first across the line, but it might be okay, I've improved my swim or I was able to stay with that pack longer or I felt better on the run. So there's always ways that you can be winning, but it's might not just be that gold medal around your neck.

Speaker 2: (09:36)
Then Neva comes instantly. Th th that actually standing at the top of the podium as always a progression of years to get there. And many, many

Speaker 3: (09:43)
in the, in the, in the individual sports,

Speaker 2: (09:45)
um, you know, and lots of semifinalists and problems along the way and overcoming it. And then when you get to the top, you don't stay there either. So it's learning to manage that whole system and keep going. Um, so the biggest, listen, they would be, yeah, definitely. Keep, keep working towards your goals. Would that be right?

Speaker 3: (10:03)
Yeah, just small steps and appreciate the small things. I think in times like these where you need to have a bit of gratitude for yourself. Yes, you need a lot of gratitude for other people and acknowledge and sank and be kind to them. But a lot of people forget to do that with themselves. Worst predict. So it is so important to be, you know, looking everyday what is something I did really well today, well done. Yeah, that's great. Boy I'm off the couch this morning and I'm out running and no one else's. And, and there are lots of little things that you can just look after yourself a lot more effectively and you can do that in day to day life. And I think people, as much as this is going to be a very challenging time, I think people have the opportunity to learn, to appreciate the small things in life and be around their families and yeah, maybe Potter in the garden or whatever it may be and realize how important that is to success in life over a long period of time.

Speaker 2: (11:01)
Yeah. In taking the long view on this one now, Craig, and now you have a bit of a story yourself, um, a story of, of going home, you know, working so hard and burning out and um, coming into a bit of a drastic situation. Can you share that sort of background story, because you know, these are the stories that really teach us.

Speaker 3: (11:20)
Yeah, they are. I think from a very young age, I've always, you know, push the limits. For me it was, I'm trying to find that new space, um, where can I take my body? How much can it handle? And you know, I, it wasn't the most talented person out there, but I had, damn, I had some grit and hard work if they can be. And I think that comes from there from my mother. Yeah. I think we both the same there. And you know, a lot of people go, Whoa, you know, you did really well, you succeed into world champs. And I said, yeah, there was a lot of hard work in that. And you know, there are a lot more talented people, but I managed to get ahead of quite a few of them just because I was more determined and dominant approach to say, you know what, I'm going to prove people wrong.

Speaker 3: (12:02)
I'm going to prove science or medicine wrong and I want to see if I can get there. I love it. So I triggered hot problems and probably stress and burn out to a certain extent, not always burnout, but pushing that limit three key times in my life. So the first one was, who knows, uh, 15 and I'd come off a week long swim camp at Christmas time. I had done some things I've never done before. I had people stopping in the lines watching me do a set and which is absolutely flying and this felt amazing. And the next day was new year's day. I got out of bed at six o'clock in the morning when to go to the bathroom and find and went out for very long time. Um, my dad, who had just had a hip replacement was on crutches and sort of come along and tap me.

Speaker 3: (12:54)
And he thought I was, could have been dead because he, he couldn't been over at time and he said my eyes were in a state that he'd never seen before. And being knocked out for over five minutes is, um, yeah, fairly scary for a lot of people. Hmm. You know, that opportunity. I spent some time in intensive care, uh, and, and word was spreading around the community that I'd had heart attacks and all sorts of things that happened to me. Um, and it took a little while for, um, the cardiologist to try and make sense of what was going on at that time. And they initially, he said, look, you know, you have to give up sport. That's it. Your resting heart rate is too low. Um, it's, it's still 32 right now and I get down to 24 at night. My next spot right is still over 210. Wow. And I've always had an extremely low blood pressure of 90, over 60. Yeah. So all those things with their, and if I stressed too much, there was a recipe for disaster in a way.

Speaker 3: (13:58)
so they, but they couldn't find an actual reason to why I was having these heart problems at that time. And while I was really struggling. And so in the end, they just say, look, you can go back to sport, but you need to monitor and listen to yourselves. And I made two New Zealand teams within a year, um, and, and obviously had a very successful career after that. The second time I did it was I was working in Taiwan. I was qualified for world half iron man champ. So I was pushing the limit about six weeks out from the event. We had a big period of work where I'll be working around 60 hours a week plus those training 30 hours a week. Um, and just, I mean I was always some to try and find where is that balance on the high performance edge and I just pushed it too far.

Speaker 3: (14:46)
And so I had the same thing happen there, not to the, I wasn't feinting, uh, so much because I had a pacemaker and by then it was stopping me from doing that. Ah, so that was the second time. And then the third time I in Thailand, I was working, uh, 70 to 80 hours a week. Loved every single minute of what I was doing. I was worth 302 days straight. Yup. And woke up and did the big find to gain and um, you know, obviously this time I'm married and my wife's freaking out. She, I had never been in a hospital apart from being born pretty much. And you know, this took a big toll on her and I spent quite a bit of time in hospital again and Thailand and was during that time I realized that wasn't right about me anymore. And it was more too, you know what?

Speaker 3: (15:37)
Hey look, yeah, my heart's struggling a bit here and I'm not feeling well, but you know what, I'll, I've got the resilience, I'll bounce back from it. Right. You do it all the time and training, you know, you work hard, you smash yourself to bits it and you'd get a better recovery and your bounce back and away you go again pretty quick. But in this instance there was a lot more to it and I could see the effects on the staff. You know, we had 500 stops, so you could see how that affected them and especially my wife. And at that point I was like, you know what, I need to change. I'm, I put on 14kgs, I'd stopped exercising. Aye wasn't eating well even though I was at the healthiest place in the world. Mmm. And I was only getting four to five hours sleep a night.

Speaker 3: (16:17)
So I wasn't allowing my body to, to recover. Right. So I wasn't giving it a chance whatsoever. And what was really, and, and, and obviously at that time I decided the term breaking the CEO came up for me at that time, breaking the CEO code and [inaudible] that concept is now sort of really developed out in working with CEO's and executives around that and also building out programs for corporates. Exits are as well. So that's where that came from. But one of the real interesting things is when you're in athletes, you base everything. Everything's based around recovery. Yes. You've got the hard work. It's based around recovery because that's when the gains happen. That's when the high performance gains actually occur. And you have really strong trees. So when you push the limit in training or at a rice, your body tells you, you know, your times aren't as good.

Speaker 3: (17:15)
Your heart rate might be up, your sleep patterns go off. Um, appetite can change. And so there's a lot of really strong triggers that you're aware of. And generally you're recording a lot of data, so you, or you've got a coach that can see things as well when you're in the working world, [inaudible] have that. It's not a physical fatigue unless you're in certain [inaudible] industries. Yeah. So it's a real psychological fatigue. And unless there's a catastrophic event, yeah. Don't realize what's happening. So, excuse me to interrupt. But when you're an athlete, you only value breaking yourself physically.

Speaker 2: (17:50)
So you think any mental stress, it's just like, Oh, you know, grit. You haven't run 200 cases today. You know, like it's not that bad. You underestimate how much that they can put on the actual your system when your brain is stressed and when you're, when you're pushing the limits. Mean to me it takes a lot of energy. I mean, 20% of our energy goes just into our brain. 20% of our calories, for example. Yeah. Which is, you know, and part of it. So what's happening when you're in psychological fatigue or in your work spaces, the change in fatigue and energy levels is so gradual and our bodies so clever at adapting, you don't understand what's going on, you don't feel it. And it keeps dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping until it's too late. You don't realize it. And generally it's either you take a couple of days off or you go on a planned holiday and you get sick quite often.

Speaker 2: (18:45)
Well, you get to a point where I did where I had just worked at 302 days straight, full on 100% the whole time there was, it was go, go, you know, 24 seven never stopped thinking and the body does soon. You know what, okay, I'm going to have to put the brakes on here. I'm going to put the handbrake on it and we're going to hit real hard and you're probably going to hit a lamppost at the same time. And yeah, that's what happened. [inaudible] it a big lesson. The body is a very clever thing when it, you know, even in the, in the athletic world like, um, when you're running specific boat, you know, when I ran through New Zealand, my body was like shattering my body down in your mind is so strong that you pushed through the pain and you carry on and then my body actually pick up, carry on till the end of it run.

Speaker 2: (19:32)
But I paid the price for the next, but he is, well actually I'm still lost if I'm honest. I mean I think cause she pushed through those, you pushed through that, that survival limit. Okay. And you do do damage. It reminds me of a really funny story. Um, I was racing autumn in Austria back in 2005, so would have been my first right man. Oh uh, yeah. First Imam. So week before I had, um, Oh go, this is going in my head, uh, not boil. Um, and then fiction, uh, [inaudible] on my head anyway, so I had, I had a, had a medical problem and yeah. Um, so from that they said, Oh look, you know, you may not be able to race. And so during the rice, like I felt good beforehand and I said, okay, look, yep, you've got the clearance, go for it. And I felt amazing. I swam really well up with the front packs out onto the bike and feeling good. Got 50 K, and then I just started vomiting from 50 K right through to the a hundred into the 190 K ride. And I'm sitting here going, I don't know how I'm going to get through this rice if I can't get food. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (20:46)
got onto the felt good,

Speaker 3: (20:48)
you know, I felt pretty crappy near the end of the bike and then got on the run and felt good for the first 10 K and going along nicely. And then I'm like sitting there going, I need to eat and I need to drink because I'm kidding. Anything down all day, you know, we're a six, seven hours into the rice by them. And I remember, I remember sitting down at the 21K Mark it was a loop, a double loop course. You come back past the finish line a couple of times and I could hear on the loudspeaker, a friend of mine ran out to sink being called out and saying, I went to our champion for today, ran out two sinks about to cross the line. And so I remember that and that's the last thing I remember. And, and I woke up in the medical tent [inaudible] I was like, how do I do? And they're like, what do you mean? I said, where did I finish? And they're like, Oh, we found you at the 22 K Mark or running down the wrong road and we were trying to stop you. And you're like, no, leave me. I'm about to catch the widow completely out of it. Just lost it. You know, body wanted to keep going. But I had, isn't it amazing how strong the mind is though, that you can push yourself to almost killing yourself? Yeah. Yup, yup. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (22:02)
and like you, you know, through all this, these, you know, the cycle if you like, of of going had crashing, growing, had crashing, going hog crashing. It just started to learn something that you've actually like used today and you are in your world today. Okay. Yeah. So when, so when I was sitting there and I talked about, you know, being in that position, hospital, yeah. A couple of years ago and okay, I realized I needed to break the CEO code. And the big thing for me was I have all this amazing knowledge and lessons learned from the athlete world, from coaching, from being a sports science in that high performance space. And I was using none of it, none of it. And here's a lesson for everyone in life. There are four basic fundamentals to performance. Anyone, no matter what you do, it's exercise, nutrition, freeing your mind and recovering with purpose.

Speaker 3: (22:57)
Now all of those have effects on your ability to perform mentally, physically, emotionally. Okay. [inaudible] they have huge effects on things like your mood on your ability, your cognitive function, your ability to, to actually process information [inaudible] okay. Don't have those imbalance, then you will limit your performance potential. So I was, look at it this way, your talent sits, your minimum performance ceiling, your exercise, your nutrition, you're freeing your mind and you're covering with purpose determines how high you can lift the ceiling. All right? So that is what controls that your talent controls just your minimum height. So you could be the most talented person in the world, but if you don't look after yourself, you're not going to get anywhere near your potential. Hmm. And so obviously we say that quite often they get lazy and know everything's too easy for them when they're younger. And then finally, some people who actually really look after themselves come through and Sean above them, and that works in whatever space it is, whether it be a musician or a speaker, a coach, an athlete, a parents, whatever it may be, that will determine it.

Speaker 3: (24:16)
And then the second aspect is, uh, that are really thrived on and tested and tried many times is paradise nation and of the term that CEO paradise relation. Now puritization initially comes from cataloging in the library system and it was cataloging on periods of time. Then the sporting world took it, especially in endurance and used it to paradise. There they work in stress loads and balance it with recovery periods so that they can get jumps in performance over time. So as they recovered, their performance would go to a high level. I would stress it, they dropped down their performance, but then when they recovered it would go higher again. So I applied that to work. Um, and as we talked about before, you don't recognize the fatigue that's going on and you push and push and push. And because it's the stimulus is that the change is so small and it's a catastrophic event, then you don't, you, your body is adapting to it. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (25:12)
so important to actually plan the recovery and, and that can be on a daily basis, weekly, monthly, yearly or career basis. Now, the Korea one is fascinating because I've only met two people so far who do this extremely well. One is Anne gripper, who used to be CEO of triathlon Australia and she's now working at new South Wales office of sport as their CEO. And she is into a fourth cycle of five years in a job, one year off, five years on, one year off. And she planned that, you know, uh, what are we looking at about seven, eight, nine years ago now? Nearly 20 years ago. Yeah. Each of her breaks, she's done something completely different. Yeah. And some might think of it as a sabbatical, but no, this is actually planned. It's not seven or more years. It's, it's every or five years on, one year off.

Speaker 3: (26:03)
And so she cycled the world for one of them. She set up a philanthropy, uh, in another one and the other one, she has gone off and done her masters at one of the prestigious Mmm postgraduate schools in Switzerland for school, the lighting. So I'm looking forward to what's next. I don't know. I haven't actually spoken to her. What's next? The other one is Del Beaumont. Del Bowman is a bit of a legend in the personal development and kind of marketing spice and has a huge following in Australia and around the world. And he's been working for 17 years and kind of that personal development space for the last 10 years. He works two months on, one month off. Wow. Three months on, one month off. And so during that one month off, he generally goes to a new country around the world. He takes his, his wife has young children and he's been, I think he's over a hundred countries now.

Speaker 3: (26:58)
He's been to, and so that's the approach he's taken now. He has a, he's built a team behind him. He's put trust in them. I'm sure he will really hard during the two months, but then he has a full one month off where it's completely off work. Yeah. Extremely good. Uh, if we took a look at it from a year point of view, most people will go, all right, I've got four weeks holiday. I'll take them off inside the Southern hemisphere. They'll take them off for Christmas and they'll spend time with the children. I've a summer, a Northern hemisphere would obviously be July, August period. So what they do is they work 11 months and then they just have this recovery there. So it's a long time to be staying on and performing at a high level. Exactly. Yeah. And so what's more effective is if, how do we look at, can we put things in every three months or every four months and actually scheduling those [inaudible] your diaries before the start of the year, like an athlete would.

Speaker 3: (27:52)
They plan the recovery periods at Welland avant, sometimes up to four years if they're into an Olympic cycle. [inaudible] and you sit there with your family and you plan that so that you're both offered the same time, if that's what you want to do. If you're married, if you're not, then obviously you just need to look after yourself. It's a bit easier. Um, but as you plan that time away from the work that you're doing away from the passion that you're in, get out in night, go see some new places, change your environment and allow that mind to refresh and the body to recover and that as well. Uh, and then obviously we can type that down to even into a WIC space where, how do we cycle those periods? What has been fascinating through the research with Don [inaudible] pretty much in, in endurance athletes and also in anything that's done in business, it works out to be about a three to one work to rest ratio.

Speaker 3: (28:43)
Yeah, three, two, one. So say an athlete will generally go three weeks on one week off, three weeks on, one week off. Now if sometimes they may do a longer period up to five or six weeks and then, but then they need a longer recovery period to balance that back. But it's still equal somewhere around three to one, unless they're doing something really extreme. And in the, it might need to be a lot more recovery in the working world. They do stuff, uh, say on a daily basis where they look at how long can a, a high performer achieve high levels of performance and productivity over period of time. Now there's some that say 52 minutes, um, of work at that level and before they start to lose the, the performance and lose the productivity and it takes about 70 minutes to get that back.

Speaker 3: (29:33)
There are others who say 45 minutes, 15 but most of the studies are still based around a three to one where it's risk ratio. So it's a great place to stop. Now if you go through what a lot of CEOs and a lot of businesses and a lot of families are going through right now, which is a massive stress load with dealing with [inaudible], you actually go into needs more recovery in there. Yup. Or a longer piece of recovery coming up. Now we're pretty much going to be forced to doing that because you're working from home. Yup. There might be some stresses, yes. But you're pretty much going to be forced to do that, which will be really good for you. Really good for you to take that time out to recover [inaudible] and we're using it to recover, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so the key message is here that it's all around proactively planning recovery so you can sustain high levels of performance and productivity all the time.

Speaker 3: (30:27)
And that's what I've been able to do since then. I don't drink coffee, I don't have sugar, I don't um, touch soft drinks. I don't have any caffeine whatsoever. I can't cause my heart anyway, but I have consistent energy all day. I don't get to a point where I fall over. I don't get to a point where I feel it declining. If that happens. It's extremely rare because I plan my recovery, I've got my exercise, nutrition, freeing my mind and recovering with purpose embedded every single day. And if I do need to do a period of how to work, then I will, I will plan a longer period of recovery in there. So I will look at it and go, okay, this project is going to take quite a bit of time. So I know I need to have some recovery in it. Yeah. At the moment, I am having to stop pretty early in the morning because of dealing with some stuff with covert 19 from a local, national, international level in multiple areas.

Speaker 3: (31:21)
So I have to start at five Oh six in the morning and I might not finish till nine at night, but I'll go out in the middle of the day and I go for a two three hour bike ride and have some recovery. So I'm in the middle of the dice. So I ensure that I can perform at a high level. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, it's really about planning in doing the very basic things. Well, you sleep, you know, when you were doing in Taiwan and you hit that four to five hours a night's sleep, it's a disaster. Well, your hormones now, when do you put on my, you know, I don't order those sort of things. Uh, really those sort of things are really crucial. But their sleep, the hydration, the nutrition in the meantime breaks. If we all would agree on that and they exercise. Oh, absolutely. No, we are, we're singing from the same song shake Theo thing. Yeah. And it's certainly important. I like it. There's been a whole thing of the last sort of 10 years around that the hype before or that the people can go without slave and they'd be performing a massively. Now there's something trying to me what the statistic is.

Speaker 3: (32:27)
Oh yeah. I think it's something like 7%. It may even be less than that of people that can survive, that can function at the highest level off around five to six hours. Yeah, it's very few,

Speaker 2: (32:40)
but most people, it's around eight to nine hours. And every time you reduce that, like say if you reduce it by half an hour, you probably won't notice it too much because your body's adapting to it. But it does have quite a big effect [inaudible] on your IQ. Obviously your intelligence, your emotional intelligence, as you said, your hormones, which you fix, uh, things such as energy to fix, such as things as your mood. It affects your ability to cope under pressure. Alright. Really important things that you need to have firing in all cylinders. So the people that are thrived, Oh, sorry. Yeah. People that are thriving at the moment rather than just surviving the coven 19 and coronavirus people that actually [inaudible] sitting quite healthy and are able to make decisions rationally. I will too go through thought processes and um, ensure that they have the cognitive function, deal with things effectively.

Speaker 2: (33:37)
Those that have come into it a little tired that don't, don't have a healthy body are the ones that are struggling the most. Yeah, yup. Mean to the end physically and [inaudible] sleep deprivation one, um, that really over time leads to cognitive decline, you know, which I'm, you know, specialized in learning about brain rehabilitation and, and the correlation between Alzheimer's and dementia and lack of sleep over many years is it's a very strong one. Mmm. So for that reason alone, you know, you need to, if you want to have a brain that is performing into, you know, like the stats already in your thirties and your forties, you know, this is already a map to climb. Okay. And you, you know, optimizing every area of your life so that you can cope. What's the [inaudible] you know, I like, I've got a [inaudible] well it shouldn't be healthy fit. [inaudible] and I can face this courses with a beta lot of energy [inaudible] to focus on, you know, like I've got more to, to, to more resilience.

Speaker 2: (34:47)
And at the moment we're all going a little bit, well some of us are going and sign the hat, um, and we have to for this short period of time and that's okay. As long as we're the planning and as soon as this one's down that you've got some recovery in there somewhere. Otherwise you will. Hello. I mean, I know this, like with my mum, I'm having that aneurism and you know, the book that I've just [inaudible] for that relentless, the first three years were seven days a week, you know, operating two companies working with her all day and not a day off. Never a day off. Yeah. Oh, you know, in the first six months it was round the clock and there was hardly any time for sleep. It was, yeah, four to five hours of sleep. And you know, I paid, I paid a massive price, but I had to, to survive. And now I have to, my body isn't quite as as it should be.

Speaker 3: (35:38)
And I have to rebuild those resources again. And that is an extreme, you know, situations that you had to, you know, and we know as athletes how to do that for a period of time. The thing is [inaudible] don't, don't mistake mental toughness with, you know, you're, you're, you're still a human, you're not Bulletproof. I would like to think we are as athletes, we're not, and we will have limitations and we need to respect their bodies and gives them time to come back sooner or later and hopefully sooner. Mmm. So Craig, I now need to ramp up shortly and I know that you've got lots of things to get onward. So the periodization, the three two one is a really important factor adhering to the basics. Uh, got you. What else did you like? What would ask, would you like to leave as parting words for people to think about and we can they find you and reach out to you if they wanna work with you?

Speaker 3: (36:36)
Yeah. Brilliant. I think one of the best [inaudible] the most important things is here is it. It's about the basics. You know, if we look at the most effective sports teams in the world are most effective athletes, they focused a lot on the basics and getting them right. What we're seeing a lot now in say the sporting world as we're seeing a lot of people going for the shiny things, they want to mimic the plays that the all blacks do. They want to be trying to do the same sessions as and the Olympic. A runner. Yeah, Stitcher, and so they want to go for the shiny things first. It is or about the basics and that's the same thing when it comes to looking after your body. [inaudible] no matter whether you're a mum or your a CEO or you're someone going to work or you look after the [inaudible], the [inaudible], the community bridge club.

Speaker 3: (37:23)
It's about the bicycles. If you want to [inaudible] high performing person, I think that's really, really important. [inaudible] the second thing is that you need to obviously make sure that you're preparing to perform every day. If we look at athletes, singers, dances, songwriters, artists in what people would term is the performing areas. Um, and what they don't realize everything is performing. But I would consider those as performance ones. They spend over 95% of their time training, preparing, planning, and less than 5% of their time actually competing. Now when it comes to the business world, corporate world, it's the complete opposite. So they actually spend more than around 95% of their time actually competing. Yeah. And very little time planning, preparing training to be better, to improve their performance and to get the best out of their team. So I have the second phase of breaking the CEO code is performance is the three P's of leadership performance touched on CEO paradise [inaudible].

Speaker 3: (38:31)
The second one is CUI prisons. Now CEO prisons is around, how do you turn up? Oh, sorry. How do you show up and turn it up? So it is how do you prepare for a meeting or an interaction or for a project? Cause most people just roll in. Yeah. We see quite often in the corporate world where people will go back to back to back meetings. Um, and even if they don't, they'll just rock into a meeting. They'll pull out their diary and go, Oh, we're talking about this today. Can someone brief me what's happening? Yeah, absolutely. Zero preparation. There's no preparation to right. Sometimes. Ah, yeah. And we all get caught in it sometimes, but wouldn't it be more effective if you actually plan for it? You thought about what you were going to say and what impact you are going to have on people. Uh, and, and you speak. So generally as a speaker, one of the key things you focus on before you get on stages, you visualize how you want the audience to react and feel afterwards. How do you want them to react and fill afterwards? So [inaudible] you've got to bring the performance, bring the energy, and you've got to evoke the emotions that are required. So that's in any meeting, in any discussion, any sales. Yeah. Any relationship that's so important. Evoke the new bright emotions, not any emotion. The right emotion.

Speaker 3: (39:56)
Okay. And then once you evoke the emotions, you then need to make sure that you leave them with a message and something to do next. So what, what is the action that is going to occur? So prisons is all about your nonverbal communication. It's around your communication as well. Content you are going to say. So go back to nonverbal. It's around your body language. It's the way you bring your energy to the room. Mmm. [inaudible] the most important aspect because people feed a lot more off the nonverbals than they do the verbals. So we actually react. And so 97% of the message comes from the nonverbals, not the actual verbal content. Well, not what you're saying. Yep. That's how you say it. Yep. And how you deliver it. Yeah. Yeah. So that prison is so important. So a lot of the time we start, we talk with our, with the say CEOs executives to go, alright, let's cut yours, schedule your meetings in half.

Speaker 3: (40:53)
And it freaks them out. And we know we have to get the pay on the to do it and it teaches him to delegate the low and medium priorities to other people to look after. And so they just focus on the high priorities. And this is so important right now during covert 19 and coronavirus. You need to identify what are the high priorities and then determine what is going to have the greatest impact with the least amount of effort. And you move the medium and low, um, priorities and delegate them and empower your staff to look after those and given some responsibility. Don't take all the responsibility yourself. Hmm. So that's a really powerful thing right now. Mmm [inaudible] then obviously once we've reduced the number of meetings, we, we then go, okay, we need to put some time in beforehand. So you plan not just understand the content and maybe your outcome, but how you're going to deliver.

Speaker 3: (41:47)
And then after the meeting you need to make sure you've got a debrief and some time to recover because we need to make sure that you're performing at three, two, one work to rest ratio throughout the day. [inaudible] come four or five o'clock when you might need to be making some really key decisions. You still have the energy, you still able to perform [inaudible] best to bring the best out of the people you've got. So powerful. The third phase is CEO performance and CEO performance is around developing high performing habits and high-performing habits. Uh, [inaudible] around making sure that you have your and your [inaudible] mental state that you're removing any obstacles, any, uh, things that are cluttering your mind, anything that is preventing you from being your best. So it does integrate. So that first one, that first phase of your foundations of exercise, nutrition fraying and modern recovery does include those.

Speaker 3: (42:45)
But there are also other things. It's around ensuring that you don't contaminate the home space with workspace. Yeah. This is really, really important right now I working at home. So maybe I think for this, uh, I would just go into what's really important right now for those that haven't worked at home before. You need to set some boundaries, create a space where you do work only and only work. Do we need to make sure that it's, you can keep the children away if possible, unless they're really young. You may need to adjust this, that drinks can't be spilled, etc. That distractions are put to the side. You need to make sure that when you step out of that room, you go from being in work. So now being in home life, yup. Or release life, you put the new hat on, you need to make sure when you get up in the morning, you keep your routine as consistent as possible to what you would do from a normal working day.

Speaker 3: (43:41)
Keep that routine because then your body's not reacting to stuff. Your body reacts when it's [inaudible] doesn't, it's unfamiliar. Yeah. It would be proactive. So get up, have a shower hugely out of your pajamas. Cause I'm sure there's a lot of you that are sitting in your pajamas and your boxer shorts, et cetera right now or your underwear doing your work at home. No, you've got to step out and get into the right mental state and you know, I have breakfast stopped the day as you would [inaudible] then you need to make sure that you've actually got planned time in there to step out and get some exercise, recharge the batteries, clear them on freedom mind, um, and, and have a break from things cause it's so easy to get caught up, especially when you're at home. And for those that are normally used to being in a really busy office with lots of calls and emails going on, now I'm going to find you actually probably not this week, but in the next couple of weeks you'll find you have a lot more time for yourself and you'd be able to get in the zone and standard zone a lot longer.

Speaker 3: (44:42)
So when you're in that space, it is still important because if you want great performance throughout the whole day, through the whole week, through over the next few months, [inaudible] got to proactively put in the recovery now otherwise you will struggle later on. Yup. Mmm. And that is so important. Now there might be some if you're like, um, let's see how, so if, if you've heard of the five love languages. No. So there are Gary Chapman, check it out. [inaudible] fascinating, fascinating stuff. And it talks about one of the five love languages and how if you can understand what your love languages and you understand what someone else's is and then you know how to work with them. So my love language is acts of service. So I like it when people do things and I do things, that's my love language. Whereas my wife is physical touch and quality time, so she likes to be close to me.

Speaker 3: (45:33)
We don't need to speak, don't need to talk much. And she dislikes to be close to me. So there might be an instance where say [inaudible] because they might be a bit more work to do right now is I might go out in the lounge, but we know clearly that I'm still working. We're, we're aware of that if we want to. And so it can be close to each other. If we want to have a discussion, I close the laptop, take it back, put it in the office, and then we sit down and have our discussion and talk through things or discuss whatever we want to. That's a good tip for me actually. Cause I'm, yeah. Tend to just be 24, seven hovering around the computer and sometimes the husband, it doesn't get detention in dates when he needs it. Yeah, because you were always, that delineation is really, really, yup.

Speaker 3: (46:19)
And relationships are absolutely number one priority. It's so easy for us to brush them off to the side and get busy with work in the end. The people that are always going to be there when things are struggling, uh, when, when times are tough, when overwhelmed sitting are your family and your friends. And so if you [inaudible] [inaudible] them right anytime of the year, you can do it for a little bit. But if you do it over a long period of time, that relationship will deteriorate. So make sure if you've got healthy relationships, you have a healthy life and you have healthy work, um, and productivity and performance. Excellent. All right. It gives it a nice wrap I think for that. Perfect. Wrap up. So Craig, we can people reach out to you. I know you have a whole bunch of things that you offer in courses and a work that you do with [inaudible] CEO isn't so on as a speaker is a drug.

Speaker 3: (47:10)
Can you just give us where they can find you and we can put that in the show notes? So, yeah. Brilliant. So we have WW dot [inaudible] uh, J, the number two, the form.com and that's where we have everything around coaching these details there. On the speaking that I do workshops, I have yet to see your on there. And also a range of videos that I'm doing at the moment. So at the moment I'm doing a daily video [inaudible]. It brings the breaking the CEO code principles and relates them directly to coven 19 and coronavirus. So there's a three to seven minute video coming out every day you can get on social media, YouTube, um, and also on the website and that's around leadership, wellbeing and performance in the business space and for home life in that as well. So there's some great opportunities there. I also have a brand new website, which is still in construction, but [inaudible] you can view it at the moment.

Speaker 3: (48:05)
And that is Craig, John, speaker.com. So Craig, John speaker.com and that just focuses more around speaking that I do an emceeing as well. Sorry. [inaudible] yeah, great. So you can grab me on LinkedIn. Ah, always got stuff happening every day on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram and Twitter sort of not so much do stuff there, but my main focus is around LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. Fantastic. Craig, thank you so much for your insights, your wisdom, your knowledge today and sharing it in this difficult time. I know that some of these practical w tips and in life tips and help and support, um, well be well received and are going to help people during this crisis. And you know, right now more than anything, I think that the work that you do and what we do as well as is very passionate and very relevant to today's crisis and keeping people safe and healthy, uh, immediately healthy to get through this, this horrible crisis that we're all facing. [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (49:04)
Craig, thank you very much for your time and your energy today and thanks for having me on your show. I really appreciate that. Yeah, we'll be, um, anything else you want to say? We've got Lisa, thank you very much. It's absolute pleasure. A lot of speaking and connecting with you. Bring out some really interesting questions and some great, uh, topics to discuss and really there to help people, you know, it's pushing the boundaries to go, you know, what, let's do things better or even different to what we'd done before because it's so important that we have more people out there being high performing leaders and high performing people who are having are really positive and calming and effective influence on the people around them right now. So thank you very much. Thanks, Craig.

Speaker 1: (49:48)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

As part of our commitment to our community, my coach/business partner at Running Hot Coaching Neil Wagstaff and I are going to be releasing a whole raft of new content aimed at getting you through this coronavirus crisis.

Information aimed at boosting your immunity, keeping you fit despite the movement restrictions we are facing, and mindset and motivation advice to keep you on track and focussed and ready to take on the challenges this time will bring.

First up we have done a session immunity-boosting and doing a wellness check. Steps you can take to make sure your mind and body are ready to cope and there you will be strong to help others in your care.

If you want help with personalizing your nutrition, fitness training or help with your mindset during this time please reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com and check out our programs at www.lisatamati.com

For our free 8 weeks at home, strength training program go to https://strength.lisatamati.com/

Check out our free weekly podcast "Pushing the Limits" - a show all about everything health, fitness, biohacking, the latest breakthroughs in science, elevating human performance. https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

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For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com

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Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

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measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:
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Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information

ABOUT THE BOOK:

When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book:

"There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us."

—Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.

"A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path."

—Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
This week I have my wingman, Neil Wagstaff, who's been my coach and my business partner for well over a decade now. Today of course we're living in some pretty unusual times with the Corona virus hitting hard. It's very, very frightening and we're not sure what to expect. And last week we had a fantastic episode with dr Manson Mohamad on that subject. If you want to find out all those details about everything that you need to be aware with, with coronavirus, they make sure you check out last week's episode. But this week we turning our focus now to in positive responses to the crisis that we're facing. So immunity, boosting our immunity, lowering stress levels, and learning how to take care of yourself through the crisis is the focus of today's session. We're going to be doing a wellness checklist. We're going to be talking you through the different areas and what they will mean for you and how you can implement some easy wins into your life.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
So I will now going to pass over to my mate Neil Wagstaff who sitting over and have lot North. But before I do, just a reminder, I do have my book just out. It's March last week, literally in the middle of the pandemic. Don't match a book in the middle of a pandemic. It's not a good idea, notes herself. But relentless is now available. You can get it on my website. You can also get it in bookstores throughout New Zealand and you can also get it on audio and on Amazon and it's available worldwide by the printer on demand services pretty much everywhere that you can possibly think of. So if you want to check that out, head over to my website, lisatamati.com And you can grab it there or I will put the link to my international sales page in the show notes so you can click on it if you are overseas. Right. Without further ado then over to the show. Hi guys. Lisa Tamati here and I'm here with my wingman and Neil Wagstaff and today we're going to be talking a wellness check in how to increase in boost your immunity. So if you're listening via my podcast, pushing the limits, welcome. And if you're on video or you're on Facebook listening to this, welcome again to the show. I'm Neil. How you're doing over and have a lot lighters. We had times, isn't it

Speaker 3: (02:26)
In a strange way, in a strange way, Chi personally off a lot of, been part of a science fiction movie. Very bizarre. It's a weird, it's a way week. But what has worked for me this week? I'm not going to lie. There's been some anxious moments, there's been some stressful moments. But what works for me again, again is just coming back to the, the easy wins and low hanging fruit. The bits I can control and if I'm focusing on the bits I can control on feeling, I'm feeling a whole lot better.

Speaker 2: (02:53)
Absolutely. And this is what we want to do with you guys. We're going to start putting out a whole lot more content online to help you cope with the stress and being stuck at home and what you can do to, to optimize your health over the this corona virus time that we are all going through as a, as a, you know, the whole humanity basically. And to keep yourself well. So Neil yeah, we'll give you a quick introduction. My name is Lisa Tamati. I'm an ultra endurance athlete for 25 years. I'm now retired and Neil was my coach for over a decade and saved my career and we've since gone into business and we have a company called running hot coaching together that helps train people and athletes, both has health coaches in as running coaches and epigenetics coaches. We try and have a 700 people all around the world. So we love what we do. We're very passionate about sharing our knowledge and we're going to share a little bit today with you. We didn't want to start new.

Speaker 3: (03:54)
Let's start with a, a wellness check. My, so this is something that we use with our members at the gym, at peak fitness and health. We also use it with our athletes through running hot as well. And I was thinking of how we could, we could share some, some stuff that'd be useful to some people at this time. And I kept coming back to this lady so I just kept coming back again and again, it's simple, it's straightforward and a lot of people look at these things and think they're too simple. But if we can get control of these things through these tough times, then it's going to make a real difference to our to our bodies, our health, most importantly on mental health and wellness as well. So looking at what we want you guys and girls do at home is write these things down and we can send you a copy as well if you want.

Speaker 3: (04:37)
So just let us know afterwards. We're going to write ourselves on a scale of one to 10. You can do this each day, but I suggest you do check in on a regular basis because it's going to be easy at the moment for these things to get carried away. So we're going to rate ourselves on a scale of one to ten one being that we're, we're feeling like we're in the toilet and nothing's going well. 10 being rock and roll, we're ready to part a. We are all guns blazing. Now if all of us, we want to be all guns blazing. Okay. What we're going to want to do is that's going to vary throughout the day, so I'm throughout the week as well. So if we can see where we're at, then it makes it easy for us to identify which areas we can work on. Some weeks we might be low in just a couple of things, some weeks just one, some weeks you might be loading more things, but what allows us then to do is take control and make decisions on where we're at with our own personal health and wellness. And more importantly, if we get these things up and get all schools up, guess what's going to call them as well, which is so, so important at the moment is their immunity. If we can get the community out that is so important for us as well, but also our loved ones around us. And especially our parents or grandparents as well.

Speaker 2: (05:35)
Yes, very much so. They're elderly so we want you to scale one to 10 for each of these sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, energy, body in stress and give yourself a writing a one to 10 and if you're coming out with some pretty low scores, you've got lot ones and twos and threes and pores. Then you need to sort of understand your body is not in a good place and you need to be adding in some more teaching to the areas that you've got deficit on. Now we use this, where are isolates when they're judging how hard they should be training. Because if they've got poor sleep, poor nutrition, and they were really dehydrated, used to then maybe they had five beers, then we're probably not going to go out and put them into the really hardest transition of the wake. And the reason is because we're not going to get the effect that we're after and we're actually going to cause the body more stress.

Speaker 2: (06:19)
So this is a tool that we use with our isolates, but this works also with just general people going through the population and just knowing where you are on all of these neighborhoods so that you don't end up, you know, with too much stress and putting your body on to too much load at a time when we're all naturally going to be under a lot of stress. So that's the wellness check. We can seen that out to anybody who wants to reach out to us from seeing you a little spreadsheet with us on. Yeah. So make sure you've taken, you know, take note of this and actually use it.

Speaker 3: (06:49)
So where I'm from there, what we're going to do guys is just take you through some of our really easy wins or low hanging fruit for each of these. So you've got some takeaways to actually work with and do. So looking at sleep, sleep is essential as we all know for ultimate recovery of the body and the mind. So it's not just the body is going to be the mind as well. If we sacrifice sleep, we are going to be putting yourself at higher risk and we begin to put in those around us and looking at how we organize our jobs, our day routine and structure, we're going to be key moving forward. We think a lot more clearly when we're well rested. So some easy tips of sleep because you are, the more stressed you are, the more stress you feel, the more important the need is to rest and recover. So our message to our athletes and our message to those that are training hard in the gym is if you are working hard, then rest hard. Okay, rude and Paul and you're gonna work hard, rest hard, even more important. Now. So if we are going hard, putting more time and effort into things, make sure we allow time for the rest. Then we're going to split rest down into three different things. I'll total rest reduced workloads and then meet on important that we've got all three of those types of rests in our lives

Speaker 3: (07:51)
To ask before. Midnight is worth four hours of sleep after midnight. It's your adrenals. So if we're out of the stress load then gets a better like 10 o'clock should be the cut off. Real simply speaking, that can vary from person to person. But simple low hanging fruit is think about winding down nine o'clock and then being out lights out by 10 o'clock make a big difference to how your body's responding. Our body will follow the natural rhythm to life. So slow down, relaxes the sunsets and wa and get up. I'm ready for the days of sunrises.

Speaker 2: (08:23)
We have very much Heidi and based something we Neo, we need the natural rhythms and within, you know, artificial light. One of the tricks that I've got for you there is the blue blocking glasses. I use those at nighttime. If I'm watching telly, if I'm on, have to be on the computer or anything like that, I've got my blue blocking glasses so that I don't affect the melatonin that has been produced, which is inhibited when I've got the blue light exposure at nighttime. And that can stop me going to sleep. So that's a really good quick and simple tip. They're easy to get online for 20 odd bucks. So grab those blue blocking glasses and dim your lights and try to follow the natural rhythm of the world because that's what our body developed from. And your adrenals are just so important right now and your stress levels and your hormones and getting that sleep is when your hormones are know doing their thing is when your adrenals are doing the thing. So if you're, if you're, you're burning the midnight oil and you know, a lot of us are going to have to be because we're, we're you know, stressed out with work, we're losing our jobs and that, but just don't underestimate the power of sleep is very, very important.

Speaker 3: (09:29)
So physical repair journey happens between 10:00 AM I'm sorry, 10:00 PM that should be in and 2:00 AM psychological repairs will happen between 2:00 AM and 6:00 AM. So simply speaking, if you've got a high physical stress load, same him to bed at the latest. That's when you're getting your bodies recover. You've got high psychological stress and stay in bed a little bit longer in the morning. If you can't do every day, pick some days where you can, again, low hanging fruit if it doesn't work every day, pick some days where you can so you can let your voice, your body and your mind recover. Again, simple things. Look at that. It's based on good science and good facts and you all know and when you've had a good night's sleep, how much better you feel? Don't let it accumulate, so don't let the low sleep. If you've been nailing happily I L sleep and you've started letting it drop to six and a half or seven, just don't let it accumulate.

Speaker 3: (10:17)
You can control it. Take this as one of the things you can control in your life and put it to the top of the priority list and reduce work load, allow you your body to take some risks, empty your bucket. We'll move on and talk about that later on the stress bucket and a bit more detail, but allow yourself some, some options to reduce and have a lower workload. Okay? Yup. So what we mean by that is sort of going, some still say that. And what we mean by that is should you a lie a lot a week of exercise, you're training hard to refreeze four weeks, you should have a lot a week of exercise as well. Okay. So is period bicep periodization. But more important now that you do LA cell, some weeks they just have an off week. I have a week where you reduce intensity, reduce loads and that applies not just to exercise to the other bits in your life as well.

Speaker 2: (11:04)
Yeah. So what about the rhythms again? And of course we could break this down and go into a lot more detail for different body types and epigenetic genetic types. And all that sort of thing, but just keeping it simple for you to at the moment. It's a nice rhythm of things.

Speaker 3: (11:19)
You're talking about lists.

Speaker 2: (11:20)
Yeah. So growing up my we were back to the number one.

Speaker 3: (11:25)
You got that there?

Speaker 2: (11:26)
Yeah, we were on the fifth grade. Now we're on the first grade. So next one should be all about while you're trying to fix that, Neil, I'll go on to the you know, the title, the title, race one. If you can pull that one up. Number six.

Speaker 3: (11:40)
it's

Speaker 2: (11:42)
Sorry guys, this one's a soul about having a little bit of me time. Now this is not being selfish. I want you guys to understand that having time for yourself, if you're a mother and you've got kids and you think, Oh, I just need to give, give, give, give, taking a little bit of time for yourself. We'll give the kids more than online because you'll be less irritated, irritable. You'll be laced short with the kids. You'll have more energy to actually cope with the whole stuff. So taking this a little bit of may, Tom isn't weakness and isn't being selfish. It's being sensible, just sensible. You need the time to heal and repair and to have time out and you need to just do things that will lower your stress levels. Now, I mean this is a sound very simple like going and having a boss, but like going and having a boss before going to sleep.

Speaker 2: (12:33)
For example, changing your body temperature signals to your body that you are really getting ready for bed and actually helps you fall into a sleep. Meditation is a wonderful toe. It doesn't actually have to be just a sitting meditation or aligned meditation. Some people can do like meditating. Like I really made a tight end movement really well. But it's giving you the time away from the problems of the world, from the bloody computer, from the, the kids screaming at you. Just getting some time at, you know, like I love reading books too and I have a, usually a pile of science books this big on my, on my table. But actually just before I got asleep, I tune off all of the sciency stuff and I actually got on read a stupid novel, some crazy adventure novel because I actually don't want to be continuing the work mode at 11 at night.

Speaker 2: (13:22)
I need a little bit of just some, you know me time and I need that before I power down. Now sunshine is another very important aspect here. Getting a sunshine means getting your vitamin D precursor. A new vitamin D is really, really essential for so many functions in the body. You wouldn't believe how many things that vitamin D is responsible for. Things like your calcium absorption, the strength of your muscles and your bones your mood. Of course everything is is related. A lot of it is related to vitamin D and that comes from having enough sunshine on your skin every day. So really, really important things. Anything dad they knew

Speaker 3: (14:04)
Nice, but again, keep it simple guys. It's looking at low hanging fruit or some little things that you can add in and just keep just checking is the whole point of this, this discussion is, is is checking in with you yourself so that you know that if things are not feeling good, that you can add these things back in and sometimes as simple as reading a bit what Lisa said is enough to just allow your body to go, ah, thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Yup. Right, and nutrition. Now, the reason we've added this thing, guys and girls, this can put a big load on your body if it's the wrong stuff, and it really jumps out to me when I went into the supermarket yesterday to get some stuff that dinner and I saw how much of the processed food had been emptied off the shelves.

Speaker 3: (14:43)
Now what worries Lisa and I about that massively as if the processed food has been emptied off the shelves and it's not actually needed. Then what lot of people were worried about we'll be doing is then using that because it's in the cupboard. So all of a sudden a good diet changes so bad though, which then adds more load and pressure on the body and creates more inflammation. So simple way, just simple advice and very basic care. But the standard diet or the standard diet, the where we're seeing with the amount of food that's been taken off the shelves is, is crap. So much crap is in your diet is more than 20% or two out of 10 foods and we need to change that. So removing poor choices from your diet, what would you say? Additional stress on your body and and start to take out the information which is going to be better for your immunity.

Speaker 3: (15:27)
So don't fall into the trap of thinking, I'll stock up on a couple of extra bass, a packet food or some what pastor, what bread and things like that and go, Oh cause it's in the cupboards. I'm going to use that instead of what I'd normally, sorry, the correct carbohydrates. I'll, what breads or what flowers are what sugars? The white devils refined foods packet foods versus closer to the source. EG Apple versus Apple juice. So, and then looking at what's in the food. So read your packets, how many items are listed on it. If there's a long list of items on the foods and there's, you've bought something for just in case you need it. If there's full, the numbers, if there's a long list of stuff, don't put it in your body unless you really, really have to all this stuff. We'll just put more load on your body, which then in the, in, in the current world is gonna make a stressful situation feel even worse, cause your body's now full of stuff that is not used to.

Speaker 3: (16:19)
So make, continue to make sensible choices around your, around your food. So making the change. If you're gonna want to stock up with foods and you're doing that, that's fine. Don't, there's a need. We've already been given the information. There's no need to, you know, start ordering stuff. But if you want to get some extra stuff and then make some choices that are healthier. Okay. one of our favorite books by Paul Check, how to eat, move and be healthy as a great resource and a great ones. Put them on a list and we'll take you through this information in a little bit or a lot more, a lot more detail. Okay. Yeah. And if you want to add there,

Speaker 2: (16:54)
Yeah, it's just very high level stuff. But you know, when we're under stress, when we facing the coronavirus, we want our immune system in tip top condition of course that, you know, our supplements and their vitamins and all that. But we are, most of our vitamins going to be coming from and now minerals and so on. It's going to be coming from my phone. So if we're eating too much processed food, data's royally or crappy food with bad fats and so on, that's really going to put a drain on our resources and our body needs everything. It doesn't. If we do get the Corona Vos, you need everything to be able to flush it. Or if you want to stop it actually getting, then the more your immune system is working, the better you're going to have, a bit of chance you're going to have. So we could go into all the details of all of the different types of people and what you need for all of that. And if anyone wants to find out about that, you can reach out to us. We have an epigenetic program which looks at your genes and how you do it, but just as a general thing, keep away from less processed foods, cut deep fried stuff that's crappy. Vegetable oils and so on and cut the sugar. You know, if you just do that eight times out of team, you know, no one's perfect and he was not perfect. I'm not perfect, but it's all about what you do on the regular basis,

Speaker 3: (18:05)
Not be the case. Remember, because Gail's food is designed to fool your body, so after you eat, you should feel satisfied. You shouldn't be craving sugar, sugary foods. Food should restore energy and improve our wellbeing and mental clarity. So if we're feeling sluggish, tired, jittery, or hyper, it's a strong song. The food we're putting in is not agreeing with us. So listen to what your body's saying. All point in the wellness check when you think about your nutrition is has it done the job? It shouldn't for me. So these again are an easy win. If we're putting stuff in that's going to make us feel sides, Cheerio hopper, then replace it. Try something else and see how it makes you feel. Because often then that it's going to cloud our judgment. It's going cloud our thought process and make things feel, feel worse than they are.

Speaker 2: (18:47)
Yeah. And that decision making process, you know, when, you know, they've proven that when you have a crappy foods, you make worse decisions in life in general. So you know, like it's a really good thing to stay away from. And one of the biggest culprits I see is all the sugary soft drinks that we, you know what you see kids just pouring them down. It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, like data's really the easiest way to get into trouble really in a hurry. So the next home we've got is a, you know, hydration and water. So not so much soothing in it as drinking it

Speaker 3: (19:17)
So I can, it's fun as well though. It was funny. Good point. So I didn't lace you to talk about a little bit of the exercise, but it's made me smile. Just thinking about that. So stuff you enjoy as well. Big, important part of your health with the hydration is one thing, but still doing things, the reason that you can do and you eat and then working out. Why is that? If you, if you can't do something that you really love, what's, so what's the plan B, they're still there and we still need to laugh and get those good hormones flying through our system as well. So at least go for it.

Speaker 2: (19:47)
Now we'll go into that. On the exercise thing, you know, if you ask doc in isolation at the moment with a virus overview, you know, being on lockdown because you've got loved ones who need protecting. And there is lots of stuff that we can still do at home and we'll get to that in a minute. But this is some recommendations for hydrating yourself and keeping yourself really in a good tip top condition. Now why is, why is water so important, Neil, you explain it.

Speaker 3: (20:07)
So it's basically the morphine is a big part of our life and keeps us, keeps us, it keeps us, keeps us moving, keeps going. It's a clean name for a porous is important. Straight in the right amount each day based on the weights. Simple guidelines there in front of you. So the simple way to work this out for those you are listening and can't see the slides is North point North three three times your kg body weight. Okay, so that will give you a rough liters. So for 60 kgs it'd be roughly two liters, 75 two and a half liters, nine kg, three liters, 105 3.5 kgs. Sorry, 3.5 liters. So you should plan to increase that if you're exercising for about around 500 meal for every hour of exercise and then an additional glass for every tea or coffee you had. So most people are walking around the hydrated.

Speaker 3: (20:56)
Yeah. Most people are walking around, they hydrated. And we need to make sure that our hydration is good and that we've got what we what we need in our body. Again, use good quality water and drink regularly throughout the day between meals to treat the required amount. We shouldn't need too too much more with meals if we're chewing properly and eating properly for a digestion and not rushing off food. If you're paying those, which we see with a lot of our, our clients and athletes is that they come back and go, I've got my waters and what you recommended and now I'm paying loads. That's an indication that the water's mineral content is not high enough. So a simple win for that is adding a pinch of good quality sea salt, Himalayan pink salt, perfect into the into the water. And that will make a big big difference to how you hold onto the water as well. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (21:46)
Yeah. Sorry. It's electrolytes versus water. You need that right combination. So if you're just having water and you're diluting your potassium and magnesium, you know you know, it would have your mineral content, then you're going to end up with an imbalance in your electrolytes and that can cause trouble. So you need to up both of them and keep them in balance. And this is what we see, you know, during, you know, as a, as an ultra marathon runner, this is always the biggest game that you're playing when you're running, you know, a hundred K, 200 K races is, is getting that balance right and get it wrong. And you know, I've gotten the wrong with you times and nearly kicked the bucket even from a potassium deficiency for example, cause you just not holding onto the, the, the fluids let you should be or if you don't have enough sodium. So just being aware of that. If you are paying loads and not replacing the mineral content, then yeah, you need to be aware of that. If you have any specific medical conditions, same place obviously can help your doctor because that can, but this is for the general population. Okay.

Speaker 3: (22:44)
Instruction and your Walter will will help as well. So not just so lemon will help. Using essential oils is good as well. So structure in the water will allow the body to hold onto it that little bit more.Looking at exercise and as we work our way down, the wellness checks the right type of movement. Exercise is important. So we still need, we know that the, the evidence is there for exercise and immunity and exercise and resilience and mental strength makes a huge, huge difference. So, but what is important to understand the exercise is still a physical stressor. So if we've already got high stress levels, will exercise help? Yes it will. As long as it's the right type of activity. So we want to encourage you to definitely be moving and exercising. But if your body, some weeks or some days it's got a high level of stress, which we'll know from your wellness check, then just change the type of activity you're doing. So we'll look at our work and university on working out, working in should create energy. So this is a type of session that you should create an injury with getting the mix of working and working out, right? That's what we want to, we want to do. So an example

Speaker 2: (23:46)
Of working in session, you could perform it on a full stomach. So he's telling you already it's going to be lower intensity. It would involve some good breast control. No, my just sparks in heart rate or breathing. You'll be able to move with your breath and you should find it relaxing as well and feel light at the end. The more energized. Where are all our festivals over the years with this is feeling like it's not really a session. Yeah, me too. I have, I know you definitely have many times, but once you get the feel the benefits, then you realize that some days it's fine. If you're having to do a working in session every single day, then you know you're putting these some real risks. But you should find the a few times a week if you are switching incentive session for working in session, your overall energy throughout the week, your wellbeing, your mindset will be a whole lot better because you've allowed your body a little bit more time to recover while still doing some movement.

Speaker 2: (24:38)
So what, so the types of things that we've spoken about here are things like or yoga or some just scheme stretching, some myofacial release, maybe some foam rolling. Keeping the body mobile and in the all your joints lubricated but not, you know, going for a high intensity interval training that wouldn't count as working in session. Even like meditation and deep breathing exercises as a part of this process. And the reason this is really important and this is so counter intuitive and this why I argue with new for many a year in my mind a workout was where you're sweating your asset and you puffing your ass off and you are out of brace and you are gone. You know, I mean, I was happy with myself. And, and there was a time and a place for that. Absolutely. You know, we want to get stronger and fitter and all the rest of it and get all the brain derived neurotrophic factor and all these other things that are really, really good in hunting.

Speaker 2: (25:31)
It's fantastic how Eva, you need to balance that with this working in. And the more stressed you are and the more trouble you're having with your, with your body, the more uniquely leaning towards this way and not overdoing the other stuff because your hormones are involved here. And this is a very important one for ladies, right? Especially, you know, we've got some very complicated hormone sessions and you know, later on we'll, we'll get into more complicated stuff like that. But you don't want to be smashing your hormones every day. You, you won't want to be sending your cortisol through the roof because that's what you are doing. That short term when you're doing the high intensity and you need to be controlling that. If you're having a stressful life, you don't want to add more to the mix and end up with adrenal burnout and cortisol problems and that sort of thing, which will lead to more information and so on and so on and to decrease in your immune system.

Speaker 2: (26:22)
So any surfing these sessions are gold for reducing inflammation. So we get, we send you some gums besides, we will post them some videos over the next week and some examples of a working session because they are just, they're really all game changers. Oh, you type channel or winning? Actually Neil, so yeah, we've got a huge YouTube channel. I'm just on the Lisa tamari. If you go on YouTube, you'll find over 500 videos on everything like this from full full documentaries right through to, you know, working in and working out and all sorts of injury prevention. And more

Speaker 3: (26:59)
So I'm looking at the working out so we are designed to move and when not designed and equipped to sit in front of a computer in a car or on the couch. Okay. We're really not designed to hunt and gather, not to sit so real. Simply speaking, when you're putting together and this is what we're going to help you with over the coming weeks as well. If you can't use the gym, if you having to try and go home and exercise at home, then this is where we can help massively, but a real simple way to look at it, to start with is if you're doing some exercise that involves a squat, lunge, bend, push, pull, twist, and some sort of walking or running and you were covering. A lot of the primal movement patterns that we used to use when we were in were Hunter-gatherers. Now if you're covering those as well and you're moving through different ranges of movement, you'll be moving in this three dimensional movement. You'll be moving through all planes of motion, which means your body is going to get a good workout. It's going to get a good a good amount of exercise and also you're going to be looking after your your, every part of the body should do that so you're not just moving in one place. That makes sense.

Speaker 2: (27:58)
Absolutely. Like working, having worked with my mum and people might know my story. Mom had an aneurysm and I've just released a book called relatedness about your journey back. But one of the things like, because she was a basically Bader and from for almost two years, you know, emotionally she's lost all the ability to do all these various things and getting them back. I'll tell you, as I had had, you know, I was trying to treat you the other day to do the twist, you know, the twist that's hit the music going on. She couldn't, she didn't know how the body, the hips go one way. The upper body goes the other way. So I had to teach her or these things. Again, these, we on the other hand, my dad who's 81 and doesn't have the healthiest lifestyle and try arguing with him. But anyway, but he does have a healthy lunch. He's a hot, he's a hot cool. He does have a healthy last start on that. He's gotten in old day pretty much every day. So he's been doing squatting, Pauling lifting heavy loads. He's in funny awkward positions and that makes them extremely mobile, extremely strong for an 81 year old. So even though he doesn't go to the gym and he doesn't do any of those athletes things, he is working his body and all those planes and that's what keeps him strong at 81.

Speaker 3: (29:10)
Yeah, that's a perfect example when he's looking bloody good as well. So energy, it's on the wellness check as well. It's there for a reason. One of my continuous goals on a daily basis is to get out of bed like a kid on Christmas day. And you'll all know what that feeling feels like, that excitement that, that just that high energy that, Ooh, I can't wait to get up. That's what we should be. And I'd encourage all of you to strive for, strive for that as well. A lot of, a lot of us, even if we get half of that where we're going to be failing a whole lot better than we and we currently are. So check each day how much energy you got, how should you feel? Where's your expectation? Where do you want to be failing because you, with all the things we've been talking about on today's session, you can change that and then put some expectations around yourself that it doesn't have to be the norm, that that's how you feel when you get up in the morning.

Speaker 3: (30:01)
It really, really doesn't set a standard and work through it. And then I know that if I lose a bit of sleep, but I'm not gonna feel like a kid on Christmas morning over. If I do focus on my sleep flux and all the things we've been talking about, good foods, good exercise and the hydration, then I'm a lot closer to running out of bed. So I'm right in the presence and that's what it should be like every day. So keep the energy tanks full and don't feel one of the best bits of advice I was given. By it's actually by a client I was working with as I was talking to him about these things and he said, do you know what makes sense to me now is that this, the building up your energy stores should be like a bank account. So don't fool. You've got to spend it all at once. What a lot of us do and go w you just go, well I'll feel great today. I'm going to go and use all this energy out and so we'll have to save a bit so that we're keeping to increasing our savings up. And then we had a bit more energy and we use a bit but always, always got surface there. So think of it like that rather than MC in the MTV account all at once.

Speaker 2: (30:56)
And the way we think in the positivity and we'll be going into this in the, in the near future without they'll call producing is very much around mindset and the way you approach big challenges. We are all facing, you know, an unprecedented time. We've all got huge challenges to deal with both financially from a business perspective, from a health perspective of our loved ones. We were feeling a lot of fear and you know, none of us are immune to that but it's how we then deal and this is why this sort of information is super, super crucial. Cause if you're doing all the physical stuff then you'll be able to cope with the medial stuff a hell of a lot better. If you're going out and you're drinking a lot of alcohol misuse, praised, and if you're not exercising and you're just, you're giving up on each other's nerves cause you're trapped in the house together and all of those sorts of things and you haven't done the exercise and you're not getting the right stimulus at the right times, then that's going to access abate.

Speaker 2: (31:45)
This whole process that we're all being forced into. So try and change the direction of the way your thoughts are going. Try look for the positive things from this experience that we're going, it's gonna make us reflect on who we are, the direction we're going and they will be good things that come out of this if the do right now is to protect the vulnerable in our society and that means our elderly are immune compromised. People who have had cancers or transplants or have for some reason got an immune system problem that is the ones that we are doing this for. We are not just staying home and protecting, you know like ourselves. We are doing that to protect the people on the front lines cause more we stay home the more we're going to be protecting them and also our L vulnerable hourly and so on.

Speaker 2: (32:36)
Those are the ones that we had staying home for. So if we can look after ourselves and make this as a time of reflection and a time to change direction and to make us a more caring society, things of value, then something good will come out of it. And I'm really big on always finding the silver lining and every damn cloud that's come, you know, like I've just released a book called relentless and it's about the story of bringing my mum back after her aneurism. And we were left in a state where she was like hardly any how I function. And it was, I couldn't find anything in the silver lining for status. But after working with her for four years, after bringing her back after this, the discoveries that I might have along the way, and now having written the spoken, helping hundreds of other people on their journeys, they was the silver lining.

Speaker 2: (33:20)
You don't always see it on day one. Okay, we're on day one right now, but there will be some silver lining things. It will be some benefits that we'll get out of this. But what we have to do right now is consolidate as a society and to protect the vulnerable that is that as absolute. So stay safe, I think that's all we've got for the day. We're going to be producing much more content. Please subscribe to our podcast. We have a poll, Costco pushing the limits and I put out a container every week home. Nia, we'll be hearing some of these episodes on there and we've also got, you know, our YouTube channel where you can reach out to us on Facebook. We're pretty easy to find at least the time of or near Wagstaff. You know, anything you want to add to before we wrap up for today?

Speaker 3: (34:03)
One thing, just a, an easy one. Just to really kick in your cause. The other one, the other things you've got on the, on the list is just around stress. So really spending some time activating your parasympathetic nervous system. One of the easy ways to do that is to is to just focus on a simple box breathing technique. And one of our favorites, which we'll leave you with is, is I'm just simply doing a simple count of four where you breathe in for a count of four, you can hold for a count of four, slowly breathe out for a count of four.

Speaker 3: (34:41)
Then you hold it again before you breathe in. So you're literally going through count a full and a breath in a hold, a breath out, breathe hold. Try and do that through the nose. Be much better for your personal clinic system as well. Once you get comfortable with it, you can then look at it. Increasing that up to five seconds, six seconds, go with where you're comfortable. But bringing that in as a simple way just to flip yourself into your parasympathetic system each day, which will take more stress and load off your body. A lot of us will be very sympathetic or the moments are high heart rates, high sweat rates, high breathing rates. And we need to just spend some time bringing that, bringing back back, back down.

Speaker 2: (35:17)
It stops the, the cortisol and the adrenaline production and I can, you know, cause I do this many, many times that I throughout the day, as soon as I can, you know, and I'm a very adrenaline dominant person. I know from my epigenetic type that I am. So I have to like stop every, every half an hour, a couple of hours, especially when I'm doing a lot and sit there. And just do three breaks and that box pattern and immediately I can feel the cortisol drop. It really it has a benefit. So just keep practicing that and use it to your advantage to lower those stress levels so your immune system stays on fire because when those cortisol and adrenaline are high, what happens? It takes energy from your immune system running and we need that

Speaker 3: (36:00)
Simple breathing. But guys, girls, thanks ladies. There's great is always talking to you. And the other thing they'll say that was, there was nothing else, but I'm going to, I've got one more thing is, is is great at all, just even connecting with you today. That social connection, it really is nice to spend some time talking with ya, with you mate. And even having these conversations today, I can feel from our body now smart a bit more. I've lost a bit more. That's good. So make sure whether that's done in person via face-time, via messenger, over it's done. Just keep it there because the social aspect as well as so important for our health,

Speaker 2: (36:33)
Social distancing does not mean social disconnection.

Speaker 3: (36:37)
Well said my faith. All right, let's talk soon.

Speaker 2: (36:43)
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Speaker 1: (37:33)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Lisa interviews this week Dr. Mansoor Mohammed immunologist on what exactly makes the Covid-19 virus so dangerous, how it's transmitted, how it enters the body and what it does once it's there. He talks about who exactly fits in the high-risk group and how long the virus can live outside of its human host on various surfaces. They also discuss how containing it and taking drastic action will not stop the spread but slow the spread and therefore the load on the public health system so as not to collapse the system and to give those suffering severely the best chance at surviving. He talks about the history of this strain and our past experiences with it and the long term implications. He also brings to our attention the need to especially protect `our elderly population and the immune-compromised. This is a time to consider other people and to avoid hysteria and panic but to take the risk seriously so as to avoid the worst possible scenario. Dr. Mansoor also discusses the need to boost the immune system to lower stress levels and the need to continue exercising and staying fit and avoiding poor food choices. These are unprecedented times but with good strategies, in place and coherence from the majority of people, we can and will be stronger as a community. Dr. Mansoor is the founder and president of The DNA company who specializes in functional genomics and DNA testing. You can find out more about Dr. Mansoor at www.thednacompany.com Hormone Report with The DNA Company If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.

The Report can be purchased here: https://www.mydnacompany.com/products/lisa-tamati-and-the-dna-company-female-male-hormone-profile Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.

For any questions, please email lisa@lisatamati.com.

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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to pushing the limits. This is Lisa Tamati again. And once again I have the fantastic doctor mental all the way from Canada who has sacrificed and I mean sacrifice in time to give you guys the, the rundown on what the Corona virus is all about from a scientist point of view, point of view from an immunologist point of view. Dr main soar is not only a leading functional genomic specialist and you heard him on the show just last week, but he is also a immunologist. So welcome to the show again, dr. Mansoor, it's, I'm so pleased to see you. I just,

Speaker 3: (00:50)
Well thank you so much for having me back

Speaker 2: (00:53)
Then. This no, it's fantastic. So Dr Mansoor, you've written a couple of articles that I've also had up on my blog and sharing it with my, my audience. It certainly gave me pause and it was very much the facts and not the hype. But still very, very concerning. Can you give us a rundown on the history of a coronavirus for staff and you know, how do we get,

Speaker 3: (01:21)
Well I think not to trivialize or make light of a serious situation, but to start off at a point that highlights something and that is the more of these podcasts and video custody I'm doing in the coming weeks. I am pretty much self isolate and not pretty much I am and I don't have access to a Barbara anymore. So as these videos go on, I'm looking grapher and you know, sort of scrub your, as each video goes on. So that's a good place to start that you know, we are taking this seriously, but to make something of, you know, to, to lighten the mood for the audience members yet this is what documents are, looks like, what he does not have access for the company.

Speaker 3: (02:10)
So coronaviruses the first thing I think as a community, we've got to understand, we've been exposed. So the SARS cough too, which causes, which causes the covered 19, this, this pandemic. So this pandemic is caused by a virus, by bacteria, by a virus, number one. Number two, the pandemic, the disease, the infection to the degree that someone gets it, it's called the covet 19 pandemic. The covered 19 disease as it might be infection and it's caused by the SARS called to a virus. Now, it's not by chance that the the agencies that had to come up with a name for this, they used that SARS as a prefix to that. This virus comes from the same species of the virus that we dealt with almost two decades ago. I saw ours acute respiratory syndrome, which of course at the end of the day, that will be likely the clinical concern for anyone who gets a clinically concerning infection.

Speaker 3: (03:18)
It typically is manifesting itself as acute respiratory syndrome. I E difficulty breathing up to an including needing to be hospitalized. We'll talk a little bit about that a bit later on. But the point of this then is this, this is a virus. It's a virus that we've seen the, the, the family of this virus, the Corona viruses, humans have been interacting. In fact to deal with infections for coronaviruses for several decades now. So to the population out there listening to this know that this is not some sort of, you know, came out of the blue monster virus. Have no ever, no one ever knew about? No, not at all. It's the same family of viruses that do tend to crop up. They tend to come from animals, specific animals that tend to, you know, they act as vectors. They act as carriers and ever so often these viruses that we're evolved to live or to reproduce an animals ever.

Speaker 3: (04:16)
So often as they mutate, they develop the ability to leave an animal host and come to human host. Okay, so this, this is what we're dealing with. We're also dealing, this is this virus, this thing that we've seen before. It's not actually that much more virulent. In other words, the, not to some too cold, but the mortality rate of this virus, the number of people that will ultimately die from this virus is actually, it is more than the common flu. The common flu tends to have a mortality rate of about a 1% give or take, depending on the ethnicity, the country's health factors and so on and so forth. SARS, for example, that virus that we dealt with a couple of decades ago had a mortality rate closer to 10% Merz, same family. The middle Eastern respiratory central virus had a mortality rate that was even higher than that.

Speaker 3: (05:13)
The current virus has what we, based on the current epidemiologic studies and the data, which is still young, we're still collecting data. It looks like the mortality rate is about three to 4%. So it's not something to Scott that, but in the big picture, it's not something that human beings haven't had to deal with in the past. Okay. Now on the note of that, mortality rates, so there's a virus that we can be infected by. We'll talk about some of the factors of infection that for the most part, and for many individuals, the symptomology, what they're going to deal with is going to be nothing more than the common fruit for the vast majority of individuals. But for that smaller percent individuals, it can and it will develop into something more serious. We've got to understand this. Three to 4% on percentages are averages. Okay?

Speaker 3: (06:07)
So we take a hundred people, we take a thousand people that we knew that were infected and then we follow the course of their disease. How many people didn't even know, they didn't even know they were infected, they went above luck and they will never know that they were infected because it just never got to the point where it was serious. And by the way, a large percentage of people will fall into that category, which is what is unique about this virus. And it creates a dichotomy. On the one hand, the virus for so many people, the symptoms are so mild, so as took for the person not even know they've got the virus or think that it's just another just passing flu. And on the other hand it can and will kill a small percentage of individuals. This duality is what makes this virus so concerning in reality, because what is happening is many, many people are asymptomatic, they're traveling.

Speaker 3: (07:01)
And of course until and unless the countries that's countries are now starting to seriously the spread rate. And this is what is concerning. The spread rate of this virus is higher than previous strains. So I'm going to start divvying up these points and we'll address each one of them with a little bit more care coming back to those. So we've got this virus, we've got this percent. I need individuals to understand that when we talk about percentages, there are averages. So the mortality rate on average is three to 4% but when we isolate the at risk group and who are the actress group individuals that are elder, okay so we say 65 70 years old and above that there's no hard line there. But basically those are the folks that we're seeing that can be at significantly greater risk. Individuals that are there does seem to be Lisa, a male preponderance and there are some, there's some reasons for that.

Speaker 3: (08:02)
We're still sorting through the data without getting into that, which we know without getting into that, which we're uncertain of and we have to be so careful in these times. So only represent what we know. Okay. So it is not absolutely clear when the data is all looked at, whether we will see a greater number of males versus females. Currently it seems that way and currently there does seem to be some indicators as to why that might be the case. Okay. Regardless, 65 17 older individuals with existing all motor, all form, all community cardiovascular disease, so hyper hypertension, bonafide beyond hypertension, bonafide cardiovascular disease, individuals who've had strokes before, individuals who've had cardiovascular events before. Okay. Second to that risk factor seems to be a diabetic individuals and again there's a reason why these things are clustering as such. So if we were to put the highest based on the thin data we have, we would say men above the age of 70 who are hypertensive, who who've had cardiovascular events in their life are at the highest risk.

Speaker 3: (09:20)
Then we would say like age men who may be diabetic. Then we would say like aged woman in either of the categories and then we fall into a broader category that seems to transcend age. So other than above 65 70 and that is anyone who has been a greater risk. And of course this now expands the population for asthma, bronchitis, people that may have had pneumonia in the past and they find themselves more susceptible to it, I. E. these are individuals that you know from the basis of their physiology, there are greater risk of what hyper inflow inflammatory responses in the respiratory track. And that's a no, that's independent of the age two genes independent of the race to gene if, and this is age a, this is not age limited, independent of age independent if the a sturgeon and very quickly for the audience, the ACE two gene is the gene that makes a enzyme receptor on the surface of your cells.

Speaker 3: (10:31)
And this receptor has been found to be the doorway. The thing, the door through which the saws called to virus enters the human cell and it's always important for viral ologists epidemiologists to know how the virus is getting into the human cell. Keep in mind that viruses, unlike most micro organisms or other living organisms, viruses can also exist independent of a host. So a virus needs to enter a cell and animal cell or human cells in order to survive. And what do they do? And, and I, I made reference to this to be, you know, if you actually looked at what happens when a virus enters a cell, it's something out of an alien movie. You know, literally the virus co-ops it, it sabotages the, the human cell. It hijacks all of the machinery of the human soul and directs it towards reproducing that virus.

Speaker 3: (11:33)
And then when the virus has basically usurped, it has basically used up all of the resources of the human cell. It releases itself from the human cell and now you have one human cell bringing forth from it, many, many copies of that virus. Okay, so the virulence of the virus, just how dangerous it can be are in pots. How easily kind of enter the human body. You know, is it something that you've got to go, you know, lick the floor before you get infected? Is that something that you just have to breathe it from a ma, you know, from meters away. So that's the first couple. The second component is often it enters the human body, which cells of the human body is the virus getting in six different viruses can enter an infect different cells and depending on the organ system of the body, you might imagine that a virus that is able to get across the blood brain barrier and affect the brain, the neural cells or virus that can get into, you know, the liver of ours.

Speaker 3: (12:38)
There are certain organs that depending on if those cells were being ruptured and being taken over, you can imagine correctly that the impact of the health impact on the human being is going to be more severe than other organs. Now, for the most part, the coronaviruses, when they infect the human being and they get it, they're entering into cells involved in the pulmonary cardiovascular system. They're basically infecting the lining of the lung and other cells. Mind you. Okay. Now. So the other components that makes up when we look at how dangerous are viruses, we want to see how easily can it be contracted when it gets sensitive body, which cells are going, are they going into, how quickly are they usurping? How quickly are they using up the resources of the cell? Okay. Compared to how quickly can the immune system of the body attack and get rid of the virus.

Speaker 3: (13:37)
Right. So there's a game being played here, awarded as being waged. The virus gets into ourselves using a PA cells to multiply. At the same time, our immune system is trying to respond and decorative those microorganisms from the body. Okay. And for the vast majority of people that come in contact with coronal viruses, including the SARS to our immune system is beautifully equipped to stop it from going beyond that, which is tolerable. Okay. No, any infection, it will be beneficial. And this is something that we might touch upon. Lisa. So many scientists, so many health professionals, we are looking at the immediacy as we should be the acute infection. But what we're not considering is this because of the ramifications of this infection. What do we see happening? People are having to stay indoors. People are stucking up in food. They're there. They're afraid to go out and shop, so we're stucking up a non-perishables which happen to be processed foods Laden with sugar Laden with salts.

Speaker 3: (14:48)
We're not getting the type of activity that keeps us healthy, that sleep cycles are disrupted. Our stress levels are up when we're stressed out because we've got to go and we've got a lineup for two hours in order to get, because of frankly hysterical buying patterns that should not be in our communities. We are doing a disservice to ourselves, to our loved ones, to the actress population. By that uncalled for hoarding and rushing out and buying. Why you creating stressful environments, these stressful environments elevates your cortisol levels. That elevated cortisol suppresses the immune system. Okay. Then we're going, what are we buying? Are we buying fresh fruits and vegetables and no, we're buying canned foods. We're buying pasta, we're buying processors because those are the non-perishables and then we're thinking of a journey where for the next four months or however long we're cooped up, think of what this is going to do to not just the immediacy effect on health of the infection but the longitudinal effect of people not exercising for months and then being cooped up eating horrible foods, stress levels up.

Speaker 2: (16:08)
Yup, and I mean this is one of like I'm an oil company, obviously we're a health and fitness company and we, we look at all the health suicides we are pivoting is you are with your company into providing online training programs online, you know, lives passes to people in their living room in, in making them think about lowering their stress levels, getting into meditation and deep breathing and all those things that are going to be great.

Speaker 3: (16:32)
I cannot stress enough from a scientific perspective, from a medical perspective and unfortunately our medical communities because we're swamped and having to deal with the immediacy of the acute care. Few people are speaking about the radically important component that you're dealing with, the service that you're providing. The, the lesions of individuals for whom they don't have to be worried, even if they were infected about it being an overly dangerous infection, it will be, they'll have a flu and there'll be down for the count for a few days. But what they're not looking at is the transients. And yes, it may be transient, but the, the, the impact on our cardiovascular system, the longitudinal impact on our immune system, the impact on our mood, mental behavior, wellbeing. Right. I just read an article just before coming onto this, onto this podcast that in one of the, in one of the provinces that here in Canada, their, their, their, their assault domestic abuse, sorry. So they're, they're domestic abuse hotlines are ringing off the clock now because what you're getting is this ripple effect. Now you're getting people having to be locked up in homes exacerbating latent behavioral, you know, misgivings and tendencies, these repercussions. Lisa, I'm going to have greater societal impacts than the repercussion of the virus.

Speaker 4: (18:05)
Okay.

Speaker 2: (18:07)
I'm so glad you brought that up. I mean, I know with myself like, you know we got some financial impacts from this for their business. Is you know, most people at this time and that is creating stress. You know, and this is just an, you know, not too much of we have people. And what, what I've been trying to put in, in, in my social media and in my videos and things is the importance of having honest, calm discussions with each other and being positive about finding the opportunities because every horrible, you know, cloud that comes upon us all side brings benefits and it's like, okay, what, what, what is the benefit of this? Instead of just looking at the threat and changing it into this is a challenge. This is an interesting time we're living we have a chance to pivot and you have a chance to have more time with our loved ones to reflect on our direction of our lives. And we have this world is going and the will be benefits and not to just go into a panic state. And it's very easy to do when you are losing your income and when you're stressed about your elderly loved ones

Speaker 3: (19:17)
And you know, God forbid and horrible and me to say that I can sit and be a pundit when you know, if I'm not entirely concerned about next months, you know, rental income over paying the bills and that there are individuals for whom because their store was closed or because their day job was affected and they can't. So please to the audience out there, I cannot, it would be utter hypocrisy of me to say that I can understand the stresses that that will bring. But what I can say is this, that regardless of what you're facing, no, that those stresses are in and of themselves further exacerbating your own health, number one. Number two, two, two, two, two do have in the, the sooner and the greater portion of the society that takes up a positive outlook of this is the sooner that the society is going to get back to the operationality that we need to get back to.

Speaker 3: (20:17)
And of course that that operationality we will find that there are different things. Ingenuity, often sprouts from times of hardship. And again, I'm not trying to publicize from a lofty position. I know that there are people out there, I can't imagine, I can't, I can only empathize the struggles some individuals are facing. But you know, the incredible thing of the human condition is that when we band together, when we, when we show the care that is needed, the and we step out of ourselves, that we suppress that narcissism and we watch out for the greater community, we will find that there will be things. When this is over, we will have inventions, we will have things, we will have a way of going about business that is now more resilient to the next thing that we will face. I will always face these things as human beings.

Speaker 3: (21:12)
So coming back to I, I really want to emphasize that yes, we must look out at the virulence level, the virus and the, the direct causation, all things we need to look at. But it is so important and Lisa, what you're doing. And in fact, where your business can grow with this, this is not the point of this podcast is to say people more and more individuals, the individuals that are reading books, because there's, what are you going to do? Your home, you're reading, educating yourself, picking something that you see. You know what? I know have some time. Let me use that time and, and let me pursue something that I otherwise didn't have because I was stuck in traffic two hours every day going back and forth. So in gender, that, and then nothing can be better purpose, nothing can be better positioned than in gender and helping individuals.

Speaker 3: (22:01)
Here's something that's going to happen, Lisa. So when this event has passed, a much greater percentage of our society will recognize, I need to take my health seriously. I need to, you know, I need to, I need to recognize that. You know, what if I were entirely dependent on my governmental institution that are doing amazing jobs on my medical institutions to take care of me, you know, I'm putting myself at some risk. Okay? So, so let me take the steps to improve my wellbeing. So here's the point. Absolutely. Regardless of whether it's Corona, viruses, SARS, Cabi two specifically. If we are healthier as human beings, just in all of the definitions of healthier, we are better equipped to deal with infections and that's a very generic statement but it's a very accurate statement. So now let's get into a little bit of more of the specifics and we can tie them back.

Speaker 3: (23:00)
We got to the point that when the virus, this particular sauce copy to enters the body, here's the two things that are making this virus. Three things that are making this virus a bit more despite the lower rates of mortality, a bit more concern. Before we get to those three things, let me finish the point on the percentages. As much as the average mortality percentage is about three to 4% that number significantly rises. When we look at the population, it's closer to eight to 10% of people in the actress elder population as we defined. And so of course at that point now we are getting to a number that is concerning our loved ones who yes, they're 70, but that, you know, they've got beautiful long lives. I've lived them, but certain factors can make them quite at risk for this virus. Now other than what we've mentioned in terms of age possible sex, dimorphism hypertension, cardiovascular disease, diabetes of obviously we have to be super careful these smaller percentage of our population that are recipients of organ transplants and therefore they are immunosuppressive medications.

Speaker 3: (24:18)
These individuals, their caregivers, their families. We've got to be so concerned about making sure we do not expose this segment of the society patients that aren't chemotherapies. And therefore because of the, you know, the real pounding the chemotherapy does to the human body, cancer patients and patients on chemotherapy should also a need to also be added to that ultra protective part of the population. Okay. Now let's the, there there was, and so I would be hypocritical to say that the data is clear to the degree of making a final comment. It appears actually, and by God's grace, it appears that the youth are much less affected by the virus, much less effected. Okay. And, and what's that timeline is a toddlerhood our baby's back in the risk category. But, but then from two years to 15, we don't have those ages. But what we know is that when we look at the broad epidemiologic data, we're not seeing much comorbidities or mortalities in the youthful pay population with the exception of obviously any children, you know, gosh, that are dealing with cancers or that are dealing with you know, individual increased predispositions to asthma new pneumatic pneumo pneumonia.

Speaker 3: (25:52)
If you are that person, regardless of age, what are these symptoms? A person who when they get the cold or to get a flu, you know, we all tend to have different responses. You know, some of us will get a sore throat, we'll get a stiffly nose, we'll get a headache, we'll get maybe some achy joints. And that's it. And then there's some individuals, the first thing that happens is, you know, they'll say, it's my lungs. I, I get that. You know, I'm, I'm at risk for the upper respiratory bronc bronchial infections and I get the lung pump, okay. If you fall into that category, what it means is individually, physiologically, and actually very often genetically the lining of your, the alveoli, the little sacks, the little air sacks of your lung, the lining is at risk for what we'd the hyper inflammatory reaction. Okay.

Speaker 3: (26:48)
And so I, and, and this is where, this is where we have to be a bit more careful. Okay? So, so if you know, you fall into that category, then anything that causes inflammation of the lining, the luminal linage, which could be, for example, these individuals would have known never be the person locked in a close back through using harsh chemicals. That alone can bring on a really bad episode of shortness of breath and something worse than that. In the case of the virus. Well, of course this particular virus coming back to where we started, these viruses are entering these cells because this H2 gene happens to be expressed. The doorways, the cells with the doorways through which this virus enters happens to be expressed in the lower respiratory tract and it happens to be expressed in different parts of the cardiovascular system, which is why it's unsurprising that the deleterious symptoms of the virus are exactly in those parts of the body.

Speaker 3: (27:49)
Okay. Now let's come back to the virus. We said there are three things that are that are making these, this virus and this pandemic dangerous, not because of what you would think it to be, not because it's killing high percentages of individuals, but for the following reason. Number one, ironically, this virus is dangerous because when it does enter the human body and we said viruses have to enter the human body, co-opt the cells and then reproduce it can be so mild, Lisa, every governmental agency knows for a fact and it's not to create a steric hysteria. Many more people than are being tested positive, have the virus. Actually have it. Okay. But that's okay. In some ways they're not, they're not going to have any deleterious health outcome for themselves, but they are going to be the transmitters without knowing they're the transmitters. So this is where a degree of maturity and a degree of ownership and a degree of responsibility comes in where you've got to be able to say as far as humanly possible, did you travel recently?

Speaker 3: (29:04)
Do you fee how you know? And of course using how you feel only goes so far because you may be feeling Sosa really hold yourself to account. Have you been traveling while you in hot zones? And keep this in mind because the first of the three things that make this virus so dangerous is actually it is so mild, but mildness does not equal the the, just because you're mild does not mean you're not emitting the virus. Okay? So a person who can be asymptomatic next to a person in bed with a fever, with a sore throat, symptomatic and they both cough or they both just happen to Excel too much. The virus in the sputum, which of course is the saliva. And the mucus that comes out of the mouth of the nose. Both individuals can have as many viral particles. The person that is asymptomatic and the person that is symptomatic, so lumps is there in fact.

Speaker 3: (30:06)
So this is the first thing that makes this virus a bit more dangerous. And it's actually the thing that we're not even talking about, number one. Number two, the second thing that makes this virus quite dangerous is so one of virus enters the cell as we said, and it, it, it has, it hijacks that. So for its own, its own reproductive, you know and goal, we, there are these metrics, what these metrics are, we say for every one human cell that the virus enters, how many red, how many baby viruses, how many offspring viruses are leaving that, you know, when it's used up the human cell, this is where the saws Covey to virus is showing a little bit. If it's dangerous colors, again, not because it was causing really harmful symptoms, but it is emitting what appears to be, no, this is early data. Okay. But it's, it's emitting per ruptured per, per human cell that, that it tie jacks up to a thousand times more viral particles than, than previous. Coronaviruses

Speaker 2: (31:19)
That means in your Spotium when you're breathing, when you're coughing is

Speaker 3: (31:24)
Yeah, you have, it doesn't mean that it's any more serious of virus, but it means that it's transmitted ability. How many people? This is huge. Okay. And this is why we're seeing that classical exponential doubling. Now this is what we call the row of a virus R O. So for example, influence a row might be around, let's say about one also the row numbers, just a number is that estimates for every person that has the virus that has it and that is reproducing it and that is transmitting it. How many people do they stand to infect the current SaaS? Coby two seems to be about two to three times as much infect ability than the common flu, for example. Okay.

Speaker 2: (32:21)
Wow. So, so for Everage and I know get it early data, but so for one person who has a bar,

Speaker 3: (32:29)
Well of course that absolute number just has to do with how many people they're coming into contact with. But what the point is, is mano a mano, the person with the comes. So here's how you want to at it. The person who has the common flu versus the person who has the saws copy two virus, both of these individuals walk into a supermarket and they're going about their own daily business because they didn't think anything was also ultimately wrong. The saws Cabi two individual will infect almost three times as many people as the common flu person. Okay. That's the way you want to look at it. And again, these numbers may seem a three. No, you have to look at what this happens with doubling criteria. Exactly. So the other, it's 100% 100% all we need to look at is we need to look at the data that came out of Italy in one day, one day only.

Speaker 3: (33:26)
I think it was March 15th on March 15th alone. The number of infected people jumped by 50% 50% in other words on a document. And then we had 10,000 people infected and then on the next day we had 15,000 people that were infected within one day. Okay. When you take these factors, again, not fear mongering, keep in mind most of those people infected are not going to have any really, you know, trouble some health concerns. But we're getting there. Now the third thing that is concerning about this virus, so we spoke about the actually the fact that it's so asymptomatic but doesn't mean that you're not transmitting it, that you are transmitting are lot more viral particles than previous coronaviruses or other viruses. The third thing is this, that yes, because of the symptomology, and this is really now putting aside the ripple health effects that you and I addressed a little early in the conversation on the acute side, on the direct viral concerning side of things.

Speaker 3: (34:39)
Here is the thing that I highlighted in my first message because when you add up the transmitted bility of this virus as per what we've said, it's just a numbers game and I'll, I'll tell you how this plays in the U S we have X number of beds per per thousand individually per thousand population. So it means that at any given point in time in any healthcare system, your system in New Zealand at any given point in time, God forbid, X number of human beings can go to the hospital and receive care and we'll host the hospital to receive care from a broken limb because they fell off a bicycle to, you know, needing to give birth to a child, to something more serious than that at any given, all of these requirements in our hospital system are fixed. They're only X number of ventilators, X number of anesthesiologists, X number of respiratory and so on and so forth.

Speaker 3: (35:41)
Now when you take the rapidity of spread of this particular SARS COVID 2, and you take the percentage that will ultimately develop concerning enough breathing concerns concerning enough short breathlessness, not mortality, just enough. You know, and for anyone who's ever had an episode where you can't breathe, it's a horrible thing. It's a very visceral response. You need care. You need to be, when we look at the capacity of the healthcare system and we look at what these numbers, even if they're non life threatening going into the medical facilities, this is what is breaking the system. Okay. And that's what's, that's the part that I, that's the part that every intelligence scientist researcher, biologist, epidemiologist has said this is the concern, not the concern of ultimate Lee, the severity of the viral infection. Ultimately the percentage of the mortalities, but the ripple effect of when more and more people are infected.

Speaker 3: (36:50)
It just becomes a numbers game that more and more people will show up at hospital facilities requiring care. And of course at those facilities we have acute trauma care patients that are there. We have cancer patients that are receiving, we have expecting mothers that are giving birth. We have all of these things that our healthcare system on a daily basis has to handle. And this is exactly what Northern Italy experienced. It's what Spain is experiencing right now is what the British government has had to try to say, we know this is going to happen. So we just have to figure out, you know, and they, some of the press releases from the British government seemed very stock that they just said, look, we can tell you this is going to happen and we're going to tell you you're going to lose loved ones. And now it's a matter of mitigating as much of that as possible. Okay.

Speaker 5: (37:43)
Okay

Speaker 2: (37:43)
So the, the, the pandemic paradox, the the flattening of the curve as what we want to achieve. We know I watched a video from an epidemiologist who was saying if, if it all happens very quickly, we're going to hit this. We can have a long tail and, and the S. So that's why the self isolation and the that can containment nations as so important. The total number of people going to be infected is going to be similar. But it's from the right at which the heading, the hospitals and the

Speaker 3: (38:19)
That's that is the critical, that's the break points. And so the only way that we can do this with any degree of in the, and I'm going to say this carefully in the best case scenarios, which of course are often hard come about. You know, we, if you look at how Singapore has addressed this issue, it was a best case scenario. You know, and now mind you, that has a lot to do with the history. They were better prepared than most countries. They took the threat of it. The moment they heard rumblings from China before it even became a news, you know, they acted. Of course not every country has the control population that they do and the resources that they do. But what I'm trying to say is that we can learn from both what happens when the system was broken as well as from when the system works.

Speaker 3: (39:07)
And what we can draw from this is exactly what you pointed out. There has to be a balance. You know people who have been talking, and in fact I'm so sad that some people have been talking a bit uneducated about the concept of herd immunity for herd immunity to work. When you enter into the realm of saying that, okay, let's quote unquote that herd immunity take taking space. The first thing is you've got to know is you've got to be willing to lose a certain percent of your community. Okay? And you've got to make a value proposition of what is that percentage, number one. Number two, all right? Okay. All these things flippantly, if it doesn't impact you. Number two, for her to unity to work, and this is again from a core scientific perspective, there's several provinces that people are so uneducated, Lee, not talk, but one of the promises of herd immunity is it cannot be a transient population.

Speaker 3: (40:00)
A herd immunity has to be a closed population. If you've ever population where people actively coming and going, you don't have a herd. What you're doing is you. It's the opposite of a herd immunity number two and number three that you assume there's homogeneity in the response to the infection, but we know there isn't homogeneity in the response. We know that there is a relatively benign response in about 80 to 85% of the population. That's a good thing, but in that 15% there's the individuals with whom they are preexisting conditions and then there's that 10% 5% 7% that is a not really, really high risk category. Then the fourth component of herd immunity is those individuals are not somehow excluded from the herd. They're embedded in the herd. They're there. There are parents that are living in our homes. They are, you know, God forbid, but for the families that have to deal with patients that are dealing with organ transplants and cancer, our myths, so the parameters of herd immunity do not match in the way that people are talking about it.

Speaker 3: (41:17)
So ideally what you do want to have that curve flatten. You do want to the 85% of the population that can get the infection so that they are been immune after a period of time so that they're longer emitting the viruses. This is what matters so that we can have 85% of the population walking around going back into communal businesses and communal discourse, not emitting the viruses so that sooner rather than later that that that curve starts to flatten flat. But we do our best for the 15% of the population to shield them. They cannot be included or be thought to have the means safely to address the infection. So we need the infection to die off before they can. Again, I'm speaking here in utopia. I'm not saying this is easy, but the sooner we do this is the sooner that we can reintegrate this actress part of the population back to normal activity and not be concerned about them then being infected. And of course not having the means to successfully deal with this infection.

Speaker 2: (42:39)
So anybody who is in that at risk category, whether it be through having asthma or being elderly or having cardiovascular disease or diabetes or any of those talks of things

Speaker 3: (42:50)
As best as possible. But then being an absolute isolation is a very little value unless the community around them are taking the steps to flatten the curve. Right? So, so what we need this almost a dichotomous response to what needs to happen. We need to be one can even say a triad response. We need to ultra protect that actress population as best as we can. Recognizing that they will be the ones that if infected can quickly cascade into an unhealthy outcome or mortal outcome for the individuals that are, that are conclusively infected. We need to have, you know, proper isolation so that they can healthily, cause you know, they're not in that office, they'll go through their infection. It's just, you know, it's going to be a few days, sometimes very little, sometimes three to five days I prefer. And we allow them to get through without being properly isolated so that they're not passing it on.

Speaker 3: (43:57)
And of course then the other part of the society that will never come into contact or hope not comes into contact and as the viral load, think of the space that we're in as the sum total of where that viral load can be. And what we need to do is we need to keep reducing the viral load. How do you reduce the viral load by reusing that which is emitted? How do you reduce that which is emitted by reducing and secluding the individuals that need to deal with their infection and let it go away so that once you're, once you went to immune system has dealt with the virus that is in you. Then once you're over the infectious phase, what happens is once you go back out, you're not spewing it, number one and number two, even if you were exposed to it, you no longer go back into the cycle and then now we have to really a little careful here.

Speaker 3: (44:51)
We don't yet know the full immunity curve. We don't yet know the full immunity behavior to this virus. Okay? So we have to be careful there. Okay. And this brings up, wow. So, so you know, all things equal for the most, for the most part, when the human body, when the immune system both the, what we call the humoral and the innate. So both these for, for viral infections, we need both antibody response, but we also need our innate T cell response as well. We need, we need all aspects of the human immunity. When we deal with a viral infection for the most part, as we recover, we are immune to that virus such that, and here comes such that if the same virus we were exposed to it, we are now able to deal with the virus. Potter comes into the body, but we're all immune system snuffs it out before it starts to replicate. And before we become spewing engines again, right?

Speaker 3: (46:01)
We develop antibodies and we develop your immune system is not just for example in viral infections, IGA, one of the major subgroups that are involved in viral protection, but also innate. There are your T cells, there are natural killer cells. There are cells that bring about the inflammatory response. And here we speak of inflammation as a good thing. All right, so, so we were bringing about the, the, the, the alarm bell response to deal with the infection. Now not every virus has such a clean cycle in the human body. Some viruses, the, there are ripple effects, the immune system, we were able to get rid of the first wave and you know, you've got better, but you may not be completely immune to the virus such that if you are re exposed to it, you do, the virus can enter yourselves, can reproduce for a period of time, often shorter, often not as vigorously before we snuff it out again.

Speaker 3: (47:04)
So of course during that little period of time, again, you become a spewing engine, right? You're spewing out. So we've got gotta be careful about that, but there's something else we have to be careful about. And that is one of the things that is a little bit noxious about the coronaviruses is they have a fairly high rate of mutation. Okay? And so, so the evolution of the virus means that you may become immune to one virus, but then the second or third or fourth iteration of the virus is a beast. All F all on its own and your immune system is not equipped to handle that one. Okay.

Speaker 2: (47:47)
Nope. Is this like, why are we being exposed to these viruses? Is it, are bad animal husbandry processes? Has, is always affected humankind since time and Memorial. We just don't not aware of it. How are we going to see this happen?

Speaker 3: (48:04)
It's a question that I am not entirely equipped to answer. I know what, what I know where my strong points are and these are people far more intelligent than me and broader topics. But here's what I can add. Here's what I can give to that question. We've always been exposed to these things. Viruses are there viruses that fine as the original hosts, the animals that we either interact with through animal husband read through food sources. We've always, as a human species been exposed to these. But the one of the ways that it's controlled is, well, depending on the virulence of the virus and those that are affected die off much faster. All the populations were not as dense. And so these things leave animal sources, get into humans and then whittle out from the sharp curve and then they flatten. And then we move on several factors that as you does have to human population how much more we're interacting with animals and what is the context within which we're interacting with those animals from Dame that was simply wild game to now animals that are on them through animal husbandry closed through simply because of our expanding populations.

Speaker 3: (49:20)
We were encroaching into areas and interacting with the animals or the ripple effect of animals such as one of the major transmitters are carriers of the coronaviruses or bats for example. I mean, you know, there's very few societies do bats play a role of some active interaction with human life. And you know, we're not few societies, we're not eating it, we don't keep them as pets. We are not, you know, and so on and so forth. But as we do encroach upon areas, you know, we're going to start being in greater interaction with animals that we previously weren't as interacted with or we interacted with offshoots, whether it'd be the feces, if those animals, whether it be those animals infecting bats that are infecting the animals that we do live from and so on and so forth. So there is a bit of that going on.

Speaker 3: (50:12)
A radically important thing here and it's just our new world. We are much more mobile world than we've ever been, right? That's, that's, you know, we're a much more mobile world. On any given day you could have someone literally on one half of the globe and within 24 hours, that person's on the other half of the globe. And this is not to be hysterical or hysteria causing. This is just a reality of life. And it is something that we have to be cognizant of. Does this mean that we close our borders and definitely does this mean that we're suspicious? These viruses have no ethnic bias? None whatsoever. None whatsoever.

Speaker 2: (50:51)
Okay. This is the danger that I see too happening is as becoming fearful of people from other you know, from overseas or from other ethnicities and stuff. And I hope that the, the society is mature enough,

Speaker 3: (51:07)
Did not,

Speaker 2: (51:08)
You know develop developer are bias

Speaker 3: (51:11)
Any human being or simply a matter on it and really are their hygienists use that can contribute to this. Yes. But at the end of the day, hygiene or all the hygiene in the world, if you're in contact with you, if you, unfortunately, second, you know, through direct means or secondary means are in contact with this virus, especially viruses that can transmit at such alarming rates, you will be infected. Okay. And so coming now, let's, let's take all of this and package this into something that is, as I keep saying, moderated of the first of the things and if the first of the statements, our population, our societies, we need to look beyond the fear mongering and we need to recognize this is not in the big picture an overly deadly virus speaking in plain terms, just in plain terms. You know, it's kind of he or she had, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a violence money.

Speaker 3: (52:10)
Many more people than think they know have this virus already or have had this virus and they've gotten over it and they don't even know what they had. They thought they had the regular January flu. Okay. So, so number one, put that into perspective number two. Having said that, recognize that if this virus does make it two segments of the population that are at risk, it is a killer or it can be a killer. And then beyond the segments of the population for which it can have rapid unfortunate health outcomes, there is that buffer eight to 10% of the population that if they get this infection, it will not be a mortal infection, but it will be an infection that causes them to require hospital care. And eight to 10% of any society needing hospital care is more than the usual machinery of our healthcare system at any given point in time. Absolutely. Usually it's about we can handle change 3% you know, in terms of times of peril. Okay. All right.

Speaker 2: (53:21)
Not 10% okay. Can I ask one question? The flu vaccine, the normal flu vaccine at a time like New Zealand, it's going into winter. And I'm dividing with myself. Do I take my parents to get a normal flu vaccine because we don't want a double whammy, you know? It will, it won't have any effect on the Coronavirus, but for,

Speaker 3: (53:45)
I must admit again, for the audience listening, this is, this is more than I am capable of answering. So what I will give now has to be colored from the perspective that it is beyond my, my knowledge base. But what I would say is this, I would say of course the regular flu vaccine is precisely a vaccine against a strain that is not the size, at least not as yet the SARS cognitive strengths. So the immunity that that flu vaccine will bring about or could bring about will not benefit them if they're in contact. Now having said that, the two more considerations, of course, what you don't want is what you have highlighted or what you hinted at is absolutely a person can be infected with multiple strains, can get infected with the regular flu, be dealing with the health consequences of the regular flu and then get the size coffee too.

Speaker 3: (54:42)
And of course the simultaneous or additive impact on the human body to the degree of additional inflammatory responses. We have what is called the cytokine storm response, which by the way is what is causing the real, it's one of the real killers for this particular this particular strain. It's the cytokine storm syndrome where because of the inflammatory response, because it came about so quickly, you go from not breathing to not being able to breathe or you have a vascular event because of rapid inflammation of the vascular lining. Okay. So I think what you were hinting at, and that is what I would concur with, if we could at least bring down the potential risks of co-infections during this period, I might say it's a reasonably enough objective that you should consider. That being said, recognize that when a person, especially some segments of the population, when you get certain vaccines, including the common flu vaccine, you do go through a period of inflammation and you do get a micro inflammatory response, which really then becomes a throw of the dice. You do not want elevated inflammatory responses coupled with, from what we can tell, you just don't. And that's why things, you know, something is why were type two diabetes via co-morbidity? Well, diabetics are dealing with an increased risk of what inflammatory responses. So the name of the game here is we've got to be careful about the inflammatory, an acute and uncontrolled, and that storm response is what we've got to be careful with. It makes sense. Okay. So, yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2: (56:40)
It's a, is a, is a funnel, and I know you've probably got other interviews to get to documents or in you explain the contagiousness of the virus outside of the human body. How long is it sounds, surfaces.

Speaker 3: (56:52)
Oh, this is, this is, this is, this is where we and others have put you know, some degree of effort in, in, in looking at these things. So once the virus leaves the body, so in the body, it co-ops to cells, it multiplies, it erupts in the body and of course it rubs in the body, but then it can leave the body via what we understand. Obviously sputum is the major source, those little microdroplets that leave the body, whether it's leaving the body via blood, it's a question. And whether it's leaving the body via feces are fecal contamination is another question that let's leave that alone for the time being. So sputum. Now, once it leaves, we have to know that these sputum droplets are exceedingly small. And when a person is speaking, just as I'm speaking to, if I'm not, I tend to be passionate about certain things, you know, and I've got, I've got my computer screen in front of me.

Speaker 3: (57:54)
If I, if I given, you know, and one hour podcast at the end of the podcast, when I look at my computer screen, right? It's a little bit gross. It needs some cleaning, but it shows how much leaves the mouth. Okay. For the general person. So we're to warning and we'll get to this, these little things. Horrible transmitters, horrible transmitters. We'll get to that shortly now. So when the spirits and leaves, what were the simulation of studies that are going on? These droplets can actually survive in the air for several hours. They just, they're like little dust particles, you know, being carried along by the waves of here. Several hours. Your sputum can exist in the air. That period the virus in the sputum that's been emitted appears to be able to live in the air before it settles for about three hours.

Speaker 2: (58:59)
Wow. So you can just walk into someone else's cloud of, of spirit that they were talking to you. They

Speaker 3: (59:05)
And you are breathing. And that's what we can talk about this containment area. Now, having said that, obviously there's a big difference walking by someone in a park that you are walking open air versus someone in a building of which there's, you know, industrial air flow versus versus versus a, now you get to a closed, you know, I don't know, being a room full of people poor ventilated and of course going into the winter times, all your windows are closed. Your, you know, your ventilation may not be as good as you otherwise wanted or plain, you know, and you know, these times or, or a, and this is why governments are correctly attending a conference that might otherwise not be a concern, but you packed 500 people into a room, you know, and the air circulation wasn't the best design for that. So, so we've got to be careful three hours once in the air, the virus can exist and stay, stay animated, I.

Speaker 3: (01:00:05)
E infectious for up to three hours. Now once they settle, once they settle on different surfaces, they can survive for different periods of time. And it's, it's a whole field of study as to why viruses exist in the air versus surfaces. Let's leave that alone. Here are some important ones. It seems to be able to survive on cardboard surfaces for up to 24 hours. Now you might ask why in God's green earth that someone studied viruses, COVID 2 on Cabo? Well, all of our food supply and all of the things that were in 24 hours, 24 hours, it seems to be able to survive on harder surfaces. Wooden surfaces steel surfaces for up to three to five days. Okay. This is, if I were to add a fourth characteristic when we said three that make this virus pretty naughty, the fourth would be this.

Speaker 3: (01:01:09)
It's surviving outside of the host for longer periods than others. Some, some other viruses, which of course simply adds to why it's rule value. It's contagion. Value is about double some of the previous viruses we've seen because of these attributes of this particular virus. Again, that's survivability doesn't mean that it's more or less deadly. No, it just means that it survives and then you can pick it up and then you'll have a mild flu, but then you are transmitting. All right. So, so we've got to understand the transmitter ability. This is the thing we've got to keep coming back to. And of course the more that we can do to avoid being in those areas, the more that we can do to practice the hygiene. There was an intelligent article it went a little too much in one direction and w w what the medical expert was highlighting was of advising that people not wear mass.

Speaker 3: (01:02:09)
Okay. That's no, we've got to understand this wearing a mask, assuming that it is a mass that has the filtration properties that can withstand to five micrometers, because those spits those, those sputum three to five micrometers. Not all mass can filter for that. So you've gotta be, if you're going to wear a mask, make sure you're wearing one. That ma that meets the filtration characteristics associated with this, number one. Number two, what the, what the medical proof, what, what the, what the expert was trying to convey is don't think that that mass, which is, which is an important protection or certainly by the way if you think you, if you think you have the infection and you have no choice but to have to deal with and take care of, you do wear the mess so that you're not putting those spirituals out into the environment that you're in now, but for your own protection. On the other hand, what we're noticing is people when mess and then they think that, okay, that's it. And then they're no longer aware of their touching, rubbing of the eyes, rubbing of the nose. They're constantly shifting the mass, which of course is constantly putting that and what they're not realizing is the mask is protecting you from something of a three hour circulation. The mask is not protecting you for the two, three, five days of the surfaces that you're in contact with.

Speaker 6: (01:03:36)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (01:03:39)
So it is a good thing to be doing, but don't, don't forget the hand washing. You know, I am never, ever, ever, ever a fan of those, you know, Senator re, you know, this time, you know what, no, you do. No, you do. You know, there's a time and place for everything. Right. so let's, let's just, let's just track now and maybe we'll close the miss Lisa, just the average person, if you have to go out, you have to go and get your groceries. Okay. Be mindful of your environment. Try, try, if possible to not go during high traffic times. And I realize how silly that might sound. Thankfully, certain chains, certainly here in Canada, they're actually establishing hours for the elderly, so they're actually parceling out the hours of open store to account so that they can vow and keep the environment and the store as healthy as possible.

Speaker 3: (01:04:42)
Okay. When you go into such environments, any mindful of your environment, it's not to be schizophrenia, but be mindful, you know, on a, on an average day you were pushing your cart. Maybe you're eating while you're pushing your cart or drinking your coffee, rubbing your, this is not an average day. So still, you know, don't be drinking your coffee and have an open lidded something as you're going about your daily affairs right now. That's, that's, that's not for now. Okay? So avoid those things. Be purposeful. You want to go shop, you say, I'm going, you know what you need. You know where it, you get in, you get out, you try to touch as few surfaces as possible. It doesn't mean, did you call me pleasant? You're not shaking hands, you're, you know, hi Mrs. Jones. Nice to see you and you get about your business and everyone just knows that we're here to protect each other.

Speaker 3: (01:05:33)
Okay. When you come home, make it a habit. We don't quite know. It's seems that the fabric, the poorest fabrics, you know, cotton jacket or whatever have you. They seem to be a shorter half life for the virus, but, but not zero shorter. Okay. So you come in, dedicate a closet, you know, whether it's in the garage or whether it's at the opiate or at the entry of the home where you come in and you take your outer garments and you hang it up there. For example. Okay. And that you don't enter into the rest of the home. You know what your outer garments and sorts of take your tip, take your jacket out, hang it up on that closet out, nothing else in there. The next time that you're gonna use it, all things equal. That seems that the virus isn't gonna survive that long.

Speaker 3: (01:06:21)
Getting yourself to a washroom, wash your hands. Ideally, you know, just you'll know to what extent you've been exposed to the environment. And ideally, ideally, again, not trying to increase wastage here and water load. Ideally to the extent that you are out there, to the extent of what environment that you out there. You may be take your clothes and you put it into the washer, right? But, but, but you know, if you knew, do you in and out, you had an outer garment. That's the only thing you need to hung up. That should be perfectly fine. What is the end point of this? The end point of this is we do not need to be hysterical. We do need to be more purposeful. We do need to be more aware of our environment and just aware the things that we wouldn't have thought of walking around with an open lidded coffee as we're shopping or you know, whatever it might be.

Speaker 3: (01:07:10)
Not now, not, no. Okay. You know, you know, and I'm so just being are these things may seem as, Oh my gosh, but life can go on doing these things. Right? So, so in other words, taking these steps do not mean that we stop living. We're just going to be a bit more careful. Okay. We're a bit more mindful, I'm sure by now it goes without saying gyms and recreational facilities are not the place that you're going to be in this period. And that is not to put an onerous you know, to, to, to snakes stifle these businesses. It's to say that, look, when you go to an enclosed environment, what are you doing more? If when you're exercising, you, you're, you're, you're, you're emitting a lot more spirituals and you know, and there's only so much we can do to keep surfaces clean just for this period of time. And this is where you come and Lisa and people like you helping individuals know what can you do at home, you know, what can you do to, to, to still maintain some activity. You can control your surfaces a little bit more than, you know, in a commercial setting. These are the practical things. I underline, I on the line, do not make this something that it's not, it's not something that is a killer virus for the vast majority of individuals. It is for a small segment. We need to protect.

Speaker 2: (01:08:36)
Yes, we need to protect the bat. Indeed, it's about protecting vulnerable. That's a massive systemic approach that we have to have is it's all of that. But people who are vulnerable and not so much about ourselves and the economic pressures are definitely there. But we need to, we need to prioritize health over economy right now. We can survive economic downturns. They won't be nice. It won't be pretty, but we can survive them. Can you tell me in, in China the AP seem to have where the status because they're weeks ahead of us. Most certainly.

Speaker 3: (01:09:15)
I think there is an absolute positive, again, the positivity and we, we, we diverged, we didn't get too much into the more basal health things like reducing one stress, trying as best as possible to eat healthfully and so forth. Because what I'm trying to say here is another part of this that we need to be positive. We're not, part of the benefits of the global connected community is that we're not in silos with an unknown of what's going on. We can see the examples, both the good of them and the bad of them. Okay. And even from the bad of them, we can see what this curve looks like. In Wuhan in China, you know, where the epicenter appears to have started from with mind you, some fairly draconian steps. Mind you. Okay. They have been able to dramatically flatten that curve dramatically. Okay. And also all things equal.

Speaker 3: (01:10:16)
It was, you know, by the time they were really in gear, it's been about a month and a half. Okay. So in a highly populated area at the epicenter of the virus, but with pretty, you know, severe or strong steps strong. The potato has the, the, the, the, the, the peak has been plateaued. We've, as we call it, we flattened that viral spread rate. Okay. So, so we know, and this is, this is about as worst case scenario. Unfortunately, several other high populous countries did not take the warning the way it should have been taken, have not taken steps. And then the steps they're taking seem to be sort of two steps behind. And then each day there they're catching up. And so what that means, it doesn't mean that it's a wall. It just means that what they've done is they have pushed the ability to flatten that curve. They pushed it out. So we're now not only looking at a peak, we're looking at a broader period of time to bring this, to heal, to bring this to heal.

Speaker 6: (01:11:25)
Yeah.

Speaker 2: (01:11:27)
So China is actually done pretty well. And places like Italy and I run a

Speaker 3: (01:11:33)
There's certain places, another Italy have also done through some fairly draconian measures. A brilliant job of bringing it to halt by the way. But what they're dealing with is they're dealing with the rip, the ripple effect in Italy, what really crippled ruefully Italy was the ripple effect of all of the pressure on the healthcare system. It broke the system. And then so what is happening in Italy and what happened in Italy was you broke the system. So this is no longer just about the virus. This is about every other doctors and now you know, just literally at wit's end, you know, physiologically they can't even stand nurses. You know, if we want to see heroes, Lisa, look at these medical professionals, look at these young women, these nurses, these doctors. Those are your true heroes.

Speaker 2: (01:12:26)
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We must be totally grateful to our first responders, their doctors and nurses, the people who are putting themselves on the line. While we can go into isolation, they can't.

Speaker 6: (01:12:38)
Yeah.

Speaker 2: (01:12:38)
And we need .

Speaker 3: (01:12:39)
Yeah. I guess the complete the clarity. The last question you've asked. So if we find ourselves as in a society and within the governmental framework that are taking the proper steps and that we contribute to that by playing the part in the occur, we could see ourselves walking out of this worst case scenarios. No, no, no. I have to be very careful. Remember I'm saying if we do everything that we should do and if that is happening at a societal level and if that is happening with the government taking the Jew precautions, we can see this being something that two months from now we, you know, we come out on the other end as we have had data from, from Singapore, from Taiwan. If we don't do those things, we get into that bit of a bullish fortune. You know, in terms of the, the, the folks that are painting pictures that we don't want to see.

Speaker 3: (01:13:43)
That could be real, but I would urge your community, I would urge audience to be positive. Not, I'm not trying to sugar coat anything. I don't sugar coat anything that we can, we will and can get through this. The sooner we adopt the measures is the sooner we flatten. That curve creates enough immunity in the health and to return society to it to get over the the financial hub. The longer we spread, this is the great opportunity. We cripple our medical system and of course all of the ripple effects. So it starts with the individual Lisa. It starts with that individual through the incidence they have in their families, educating their children, their spouses, their, you know. And if we do that, we can build the societies that will get over this as we've gotten over as a human race. Many of the challenges in the past,

Speaker 2: (01:14:43)
We are very, very lucky that we have people like you and educated people who can tell us what is to expect. People in past generations did not have that knowledge. So we, we've got, we got a chance to make the best of this very bad situation and to turn it around into new positive directions as a society and to take personal care and to really take this seriously not being on, and I have to admit, even a week ago myself, I was not aware of the acute ness of the situation because we are a little bit removed and New Zealand and we haven't been hit to bam. We've got 20 cases also as obvious today. And we've been a bit, you know, and now we're not being glassy and, and it's more information and in, you know your colleagues that are getting this information out to us is absolutely crucial and will save lives.

Speaker 3: (01:15:38)
Well, it's a pleasure, Lisa. What you do, the passion, the care, the concern comes across from halfway across the world. Keep doing what you're doing. I wish you the absolute best to you. Your family, your elder mom, that book that was written, the love that is there. And so of course, you know, what's going to come out of this, Lisa, one of the most beautiful things is we are going to have no choice but to bring back that sense of community caring, the empathy and some of that Mimi narcissism one way or the other. It's going to get squashed one way or the other.

Speaker 2: (01:16:16)
Yes, absolutely. And you know, wealth and material things mean to nothing at the end of the day if you're not well and if you're not looking after your loved ones and, and, and a change of priorities can do us all good I think in that respect, you know, but thank you documents or I really

Speaker 3: (01:16:35)
There we go. And likewise

Speaker 2: (01:16:39)
To get to know you and your company, the DNI company, if anyone wants to find out more about dr mentor's work, you can go to the DNA company.com doctor mentor is one of the leading what world's leading functioning genomic specialists. And then she appeared today also immunologist and he's, you know, sacrifice a lot to be here and is doing back to back interviews as I can imagine. So thank you very much for your time.

Speaker 3: (01:17:07)
One day. Still do hope sooner rather than later

Speaker 2: (01:17:10)
To be able to come visit you guys when it's safe to do when it's safe to do so. We wait. We're definitely still working on that plan document. It's going to be a down there.

Speaker 7: (01:17:24)
Yeah.

Speaker 2: (01:17:26)
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Speaker 1: (01:18:18)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Dr. Mohammed is the Founder and President of ManaGene considered one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomics space. In August 2018, ManaGene merged with Youtrients (www.youtrients.me) to form a new company known as The DNA Company. The DNA Company represents the evolution of functional genomics and is focused solely on the optimization of human health and performance. Dr. Mohammed is widely regarded as a pioneer in medical genomics and has been the recipient of multiple academic and industry awards. He is the holder of several patents in the general fields of molecular diagnostics and genomics research and is one of the most sought-after national and international conference speakers in the genre of personalized medical genomics. In this interview, Lisa and Dr. Mansoor dive deep into the power that lies in understanding your unique genes to change the outcome of your health. Some take the fatalistic view that if you have a bad gene or combination of genes you are powerless against them so it's best not to know but nothing could be further from the truth. Understanding your genes through DNA testing is like getting the user manual to your body and learning how best to care and treat it. The granularity with which you can start to understand processes and how these affect you and how you impact these is astounding. This s actionable knowledge that will help you make informed decisions regarding your health in such areas as your hormones, your cardiovascular risk factors, your methylation, your detoxification processes and even your mood and behavior, why for example some have a tendency to more problems around depression or PTSD than others. Never before in the history of the human species have we had such deep insides into the way our intricate and complex bodies work. This episode is set to blow your mind and the work of Dr. Mohammed and his team is set to change the future of the world's health. We have the opportunity for the first time to take control of our own destinies rather than falling victim to our genes through a lack of knowledge. Once you start to see and understand the power of functional genomics you won't be able to go back to the way you understood yourself and your body before. Your level of self-acceptance and the ability to help yourself heal and be healthy and whole will be taken to a whole new level. If you would like to get your hormones or your whole genomic profile tested you can find out more at www.thednacompany.com Hormone Report with The DNA Company If you would like to have your hormone test done, understand your genetics in regards to your hormones and would like to then have these interpreted by Lisa, please go to this link to get the test done. Lisa will then contact you once the DNA has been processed to have a consultation. Please note the consultation will take an hour and will cost $190, which is extra to the actual report.

The Report can be purchased here: https://www.mydnacompany.com/products/lisa-tamati-and-the-dna-company-female-male-hormone-profile Please note The DNA Company is based in Canada and this price is in Canadian dollars. It may take up to 6 weeks depending on where you are located in the world for your results to get back to you.

For any questions, please email lisa@lisatamati.com.

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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Hey team. We're this week I have an absolutely superstar, the world's number one leading functional genomic specialists, Dr. Mohammed from Toronto and Canada. Dr Mansoor, Mohammed has two guests now. He is a scientist and entrepreneur in the field of genomics and is regarded as one of the most innovative leaders in the emerging personalized medicine and lifestyle genomic space. Dr Mohammed is a PhD and president and scientific officer at the DNA company and is really considered to be a pioneer medical genomics. He's a classically trained molecular immunologist who has received academic and industry awards, published numerous papers and holds patients in the general fields of molecular diagnostics in genomics. Now functional genomics is about understanding the DNA and how it behaves in every definition and this Dr. Mentor was very different than many of the other DNA companies that I've looked at recently and that he doesn't just look at the single litters, if you like, of the DNA, but it looks in combinations of genes.

Speaker 2: (01:22)
And how they're playing out. And this makes him very, very different. This, he sees DNA like a language rather than a vocabulary and language that has grammar, sentence structure, Syntex and nuances. And you've got to be able to read genetic structure at the holistic level. Now I'm super excited about document's all his work and I'm studying functional genomics at the moment and it is the next level in personalized health. I'm really, really excited to bring this interview to you. It's taken me months to get documents or on this podcast and I'm hoping later on the year to get Dr. Mansoor Down to New Zealand for a lecture tour to speak to functional medicine practitioners down here as well as the public. So if you'd like to know more about that, please reach out to me and let me know. I'm just like to remind you before I hand over to Dr. Mansoor that my book launch is happening just next week over the time of this recording is the 6th of March and on the 11th of March.

Speaker 2: (02:26)
So by the time this recording actually comes out, my book will be live. It's called relentless and it tells the story of bringing my mum back after a major aneurism myth. You're fighting for a life and lift her in and basically not much over a vegetative state. Massive brain damage at the age of 64 and what I did to beat all the odds and bringing my mum back to health, all of the CRPS I used, the protocols, the attitude, the mindset, the obstacles that we had to overcome, the problems that I've discovered in our medical system in on it goes. So this book is really, I'm, I'm so pleased to be able to bring it out. It's taken me two years to get this together and to bring it to the public, but I really want to pay it forward and I want to help thousands and thousands of other people facing difficult challenges to take them are hit on with the right mindset to overcome great obstacles.

Speaker 2: (03:18)
So if you'd like to check that out, we can head over to my website. I have Lisatamati.com Hit the shop button and you'll see all of my books there and my jewelry collections. But make sure you check out the neatness. It's really going to be worth a read for anyone who has major medical problems at the moment. Or of course anyone who has a stroke aneurysm Alzheimer's dementia, and wants to know about brain rehabilitation or optimizing your brain function and who isn't interested in that as well as the whole mental attitude and mindset that it takes to do all this. So without further ado, over to Dr. Mansoor Mohammed. Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again. Now I am just grinning from ear to ear. I can't stop smiling because I've been waiting for this interview for weeks. I have a very, very special guest, Dr. Mansoor Mohammed, all the way from Toronto in Canada. Dr. Mansoor How are you going?

Speaker 3: (04:17)
I am great, Lisa. And likewise, it's been something that I've been looking forward to, to the audience. Please forgive me. I'm a little bit sleepy from Jeff blog from last night, but Lisa has been pumping me up and so we're going to have some fun of this

Speaker 2: (04:31)
Now. I know what it's like when you're a little bit jetlagged and you have a main very much in demand. So I'm just so excited to have a little bit of time with you now. Dr Mansoor, I do the whole introduction on a separate recording, but dr Mansoor, can you give us a little bit of background about your what you did your PhD in your, your, a little bit of a brief history of your back.

Speaker 3: (04:55)
Sure. genes. Genetics has always have always been my love. The study of how this operating manual, just just thinking, just, just dialing it back and thinking that the human being, we've got this operating manual that by every definition of the word it behaves like an operating manual. And to think that it's there and to think that one date might be accessible and that we could read this and we could read it intelligently and just simply understand myself much less, much less. Anyone else has always been my love. And so I started, my PhD is in applied molecular genetics and immunology. So I was looking at the genetics of the immune system. I was very, very fortunate to have an awesome mentor. She was then the chair of molecular biology at UCLA invited me to UCLA. So I had an awesome couple of postdocs there where I got deeper and deeper involved in eugenics.

Speaker 3: (05:47)
But a real pivotal point happened when I was done, invited to come to Baylor college of medicine and Houston, Texas. And it was that heavy time just about the human genome project, its, you know, sort of pinnacle. And I was asked because of the work that I had been doing with UCLA to come over to Baylor and start a company, the goal of this company was to begin looking at multiplex genomics. In other words, to really do the, you know, the barrage searches into the human genome. Not one gene at a time, but looking at the entire genome in pathway type manners. Now initially we applied this knowledge to cancers. We apply this knowledge to developmental disorders syndromes, Prader, Willi syndrome, autistic spectrum disorders and so on and so forth. And about 15 years ago, after many years of doing what I call disease genomics, looking at the operating manual, looking at when the operating money was broken out of what happens from a disease perspective.

Speaker 3: (06:45)
Then I sort of thought, okay, well that was fun. That was good. That was, but why should I not look at the operating manual? But nothing is purportedly broken, but just the operating manual. So then still we can tell presumptively healthy individuals how to stay healthy or how to get over the type of chronic illnesses. So this is what I've been doing for the last 15 years, studying, researching and applying the knowledge of the human genomic operating manual. So we've been, we can just simply understand it. How does the body work, which clearly there's an individuality to that, obviously. I mean, we are human beings. We all, our cells, our organs, our bodies, all have to accomplish the same jobs that we do. These jobs with nuance differences, some of us less optimal, more optimal, more efficient, less efficient. And when we can zone into that, when we can read this operating manual from that perspective, really Lisa miracles happened with the sort of insights that you get, the nuances that you can tease out. It really has transformed the clinicians. We train the patients, we work with the transforms, it empowers the individual to understand how their body works and what they might do to obtain that optimal health.

Speaker 2: (07:59)
This is, and this is a super exciting and I can feel your passion coming through despite the jet lag for this area and it's now mind you, passion is of the last maybe two months or six weeks or however long it is now that I've been diving into this world and just going, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, this is just, this is just the next level and the information that I've been searching for to try to understand because everything seems so generic. And this a personalized house and yeah, doctor man saw you the president and founder of the DNA company, which is offering direct to public and in conjunction with conditions. A couple of reports. So our full genomic report in a hormone report and I want to tease apart a little bit today, why should people even consider having a look at these, the sort of testing what benefits they can get out of it.

Speaker 2: (08:58)
And I'd like to also tease a little bit about looking at other, like I've, I've looked at a lot of gene companies and that do gene DNA testing. And you had an analogy on a Bulletproof radio that I heard you on the same show who's amazing Dave and his work that was about the most people are looking at it DNA as a vocabulary and not a language. And that just seems them light bulb up in my head where I realized, okay, so it's not the siloed genes looking at them individually, but looking at cascades and pathways and combinations of genes as we are then interpretation has been missing today.

Speaker 3: (09:43)
Oh, 100%. So I always say, you know, Lisa, anyone that is in the data business, regardless of whatever data you're collecting, data is really quite dumb. Data in and of itself doesn't mean anything unless you know what to ask of the data unless you know how to triage, how to approach the data. So when we use the analogy as DNA, the operating manual, the genome, it really meets all the classifications and descriptions of a language. Thus far we've been looking at DNA and genetics from a language perspective purely as a vocabulary exercise. The more words we know, the better we presume to think we know the language. And as much as that is important as per the analogy that I drew with on Dave, show a person simply knowing more vocabulary by no means mean they understand the language. And so when it comes to DNA, when it comes to genetics, when it comes to how this awesome operating manual, the architecture of it, it's not just about vocabulary, it's not just about the individual genes.

Speaker 3: (10:51)
So here are the two layers implicit in your question that we do a bit differently and why we need to do that differently and why it's important that it's done this way. The first is this. When you're looking at the DNA, if the person are either genetic makeup, the vast, vast majority of companies right now, they're looking at things called snips, single nucleotide polymorphisms. In other words, they're looking at places which is absolutely important. They're looking at spelling variations in this operating manual. And of course these spelling variations, these single nucleotide polymorphisms will impart to you mean Jane, Paul, Peter, the same cellular job that we all want to do. These spelling differences can impact the efficiency with which we do that job and that is important to know, but while we're at that point of spelling, you see per any language, if I wrote a paragraph, I might have spelling errors in that paragraph, but there are examples where I may have inadvertently deleted a sentence or deleted a couple of sentences in that paragraph.

Speaker 3: (12:00)
Now, if the analogy here is that the gene is the paragraph, so your operating manual are these 23 volumes. Think of it. Think of a 23 volume and psychopathic set these awesome, huge volumes. Now we're going to inherit two of these 23 volumes. One from mom, one from dad, and these volumes are properly arranged and when we open up any page, let's say we go to volume three from mum volume three from dad, we open up page four on each of those volumes and we look at paragraph five page four, volume three we, I see the same paragraph. We're going to see the same information from dad's gene paragraphs of genes and mom's gene. We're going to see the same information, but when we look really carefully, when we look at those paragraphs, really collect carefully, we might find that there's some spelling differences. Those are the snips.

Speaker 3: (12:57)
We may also find that on either dad or mom's paragraph, a sentence was missing and I just taught this over the weekend. So I was in the auditorium and I said, okay, here's an instruction that was waiting for me coming to this auditorium to give this lecture, Dr Mansoor, go to auditorium B and to the left door approach to podium from the right side, press the enter button, begin your lecture. That's an instruction. That's a paragraph. That's an instruction and that's the equivalent of a gene. Now in that paragraph they make has been a few spelling errors or changes that may have confused me a little as to what the instructions are. But when I look at it carefully, I could sort of still figure it out. Okay. But if in that paragraph, the sentence that says go to auditorium B was missing at, of course there are multiple auditoriums, all of the other parts of the instructions are there.

Speaker 3: (14:03)
But I can really be confused as to what is the ultimate thing that I'm supposed to do. It's called an indel. So in our genes, not only do our genes have slips, many important genes actually have places within them that I'm missing. So until we test for those type of changes, we're by no means getting the full picture of what is happening. The third thing is this, not only do we have slips, not only do we have in Dells, there are occasions where the entire gene is missing is show I'm supposed to show up. I got to the hotel where the conferences are and the instruction just telling me what it's just not even there. So here I'm in the lobby going, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. This example is a genetic phenomenon keeping the analogy, this is called this C and V copy number variation.

Speaker 3: (15:03)
We see because we were supposed to have two copies of that. Paragraph five page four, volume three. Sometimes believe it or not, when we go to page four we've opened up mum's volume three dad's volume three. There they are. We're going to read both of the instructions cause that's what yourself has to do at any given moment. When there's a job to be done, your cell goes and pulls the volume that has that instruction, takes down a mum's copy, takes down, dad's copy, opens up and reads the instruction. Now in the case of a CMV copying of the variation, we can open up mum's volume three page four there is paragraph one, paragraph two, paragraph three paragraph four paragraph six. Oops, wait a minute. Where's part of our five? It's gone. There's part of four. There's part of six. I look over a dad. He's got all of the paragraphs or vice versa.

Speaker 3: (16:02)
Sometimes Lisa, both paragraph fives are gone. Okay. So the point of the first answer to your question, why we do things a bit differently is we're not just in the business of collecting data for data's sake. We're collecting data. Are you were doing gene testing to understand a process. When we designed genetic tests, we don't begin with genes. We begin in a whiteboard saying, what is the thing in the human body that we want to study? What is the thing that we want to study? Genetics, just good old fashioned medical textbook, human physiology. Do we want to study the way the newer chemicals are produced and bonding and response? Do we want to study how the human body makes sex hormones? Something we should talk about when it comes to human performance. So how does the male and female body makes progesterones androgens Astros? And then we mapped that out.

Speaker 3: (16:56)
Forget genetics, which is not about how does the human body do that? No, of course, if the human body's having to do something, then it means there are genetic instructions for that film. So only when we map out the cellular, the cellular biology, the cascade, only when we met that out, then we come in and we pencil it. This gene is responsible for here. This gene is responsible for there such that at the end of the exercise, we've got a genetic test that already tells a story. The result from that genetic test is telling you the entire cascade. Step one, step two. We look at each of those genes that are telling us the story and we ask are these snips that are important? Are there entails that are important? Are the CNVs that are important because all three make a wow. And so the first part to the answer to your question is if you've been looking at genetic tests that are only reporting snips, you are dramatically limiting the variations that you and I and every other person have within our genome. So you're missing the nuances that are in your language to clarify the job to be done. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: (18:16)
Absolutely. So that actually puts them together in my head because I've been starting this, I don't know, like for example, the GSTT one gene and the detox and antioxidant pathway, one of those types of genes that can be completely done.

Speaker 3: (18:31)
Completely. Totally said, absolutely. And of course it belongs to super family. So there are multiple G S T genes, but two minutes on that. If you're going to design the human body and you're going to say, listen, one day we're going to make this thing called human being and we're going to put him or her in this wonderful world, but mind you, he or she is going to have to deal with some toxic insults, both from without and from within. Where would you, and you know that, where would you put your detox defenses? Well, they're about four places. If you're an intelligent designer, you would put your detox, different defenses at least in four places. You would say, how and where do things get into the human body, dermal skin, the nose, nasal Bronxville lung, the GI track. Okay. So those are how things get it.

Speaker 3: (19:23)
And unsurprisingly you would want to make sure your detox genes and the things that you'd want to make sure there's super active in those places. And then you, you'd also say, well look, at the end of the day, things are always going to get past borders inside of the body, their waste products. So then I'm also going to put a detox organ. The liver, when we go to the human body, this is where we find these detox genes expressing themselves. And each of the GST is have sub specialties. Some of them are more important in the nasal bronchial track, some of them more important in the GI track and so on and so forth. So when you know the story that you want to read about the body, you know how to read the manual and interpret, is the GST T one gene deleted or not? This is a massive implication to the human body.

Speaker 3: (20:16)
Can you imagine the GSTT one gene is one of, if not the most important bio transforming antioxidizing enzymes in the body per its name and its gene and its enzyme. And if a person doesn't have it, literally it's not in mere manual. The GSTT one gene is on volume 22 and if that paragraph you have not inherited it from either mum or dad, you are missing an enzyme in your body. That is one of the most important detox. Now doesn't mean that you're not compatible with life, but it most certainly means you could not be the person who says, well you know what do you have a metals mean after all they're not that bad. Oh you know what, my uncle smoked until he was 80 years old. I'm going to smoke as well. Well you can't compare yourself to that person cause you don't have one of the most awesome detox genes.

Speaker 2: (21:13)
You don't have a good defense mechanism. And so like the detox is actually the first port of call before the immune system even does this job. So I'm, I'm excited to get my tests back cause I haven't gotten gotten through the reports yet. I'm, I'm suspecting that I have a problem in my GC jeans because I'm a very young age. For example, I've been the next medic as a, as a severe asthmatic, as a child, and I'm very hypersensitive to smells and anything. So I'm like a Canary one C one, which is theta. Yes,

Speaker 3: (21:54)
Very important in the liver. Key one PI GSTP one is the one that's really important in your nasal bronchiolar lung cavity. Individuals with a suboptimal P one are at extreme risk of early ectopic asthmas. They're the ones that if they go into the shopping mall, you know, the perfume resection, they've got to avoid the perfume resection. Right? Those are the GSTP ones.

Speaker 2: (22:21)
Wow. I'm obey. Fascinating to see if that's what comes back. And so if you want it deleted into them, we'll get onto hormones next because I really want to dive into there, but just to, to to look at the GST genes. If you don't have, you either have only one inherited GST, one gene, your mother or your father and you're missing the other ones or you're missing both altogether, are you more likely to have you're more likely to have toxins coming in that you can't deal with as well. And then your immune system is this way or auto-immune or part of the

Speaker 3: (22:57)
Brilliant, brilliant question. Just before we answer that, I had mentioned there were two layers to differentiate yourself, so just so that we close the chapter on what we do differently. So I'm going to come back and, and so now we will take it forward. We just mentioned that there you have to be mindful of the three different layers of variations, snips in Dalles with pieces of the genome missing and CNVs where the whole gene may be missing. The other quick differentiator, bringing back the analogy of a language, bringing back the story of the human body, it's this, and I told the audience this, there was an audience of clinicians in Phoenix this weekend. I said, have you ever read a really good, you know, suspense novel and not suspense novel, the novel that the author's painting the character and you're thinking he's the bad guy, you know, and he's falling around the heroin and he knows he looks a bit shady.

Speaker 3: (23:51)
And then until or unless you've read the entire book, you only find out that he was a protector or he was something. He was a guardian and words. He wasn't about that guy. Now what the heck does this have to do with genes? The second player, when we mentioned that we do things differently, we said that DNA is really a language by all of its definitions, with its nuances is this, there are many genes, Lisa, where if you were to look at that gene as a standalone and if you was to look at the genotype of that gene, in other words, what version do you have? You think you have either the best version or the worst version depending, and you may think you have the best version for example, but it is not until you look at a completely independent gene that has nothing to do with this gene, that the version of that independent gene wow colors, whether your actual optimal version of gene a will stay optimal or not.

Speaker 3: (24:52)
Or conversely, whether you thought you had the suboptimal version of a bad guy, you read the full story, something else tells you what you fought was the bad guy was not the bad guy. Wow. And this is what it's called at peace basis. You see we're all concerned about epigenetics, which is important. FP genetics. How are we reading? Are we actually going to read that paragraph on the page or are we not going to read? That's at the genetics, but nobody's talking about epi. Stacy, this is Stacy. This is often, we've read the page after we've read the paragraph. We cannot yet make a conclusion until we read 10 pages later, 15 pages later, something there. We'll bring it to life. We'll color what we read on page three.

Speaker 2: (25:48)
Yeah, so, so for example, if you're, if you're looking at a specific gene and it has an, that is say the faster for the sip, 79A1 gene and the hormone a kiss guide. If it's a fast one that's not in and of itself a good or a bad thing. It depends on the other things. It depends on the, so that's what you're meaning. So one of

Speaker 3: (26:14)
The best examples of that is this, the BDNF gene, the BDNF gene, brain derived neurotrophic factor. What are the most important genes in the brain? Well, in the whole human genome that tells the brain how to secrete this awesome thing that heals the brain. You and I were having a conversation about a loved one, so that loved ones B, D and F was going to be hugely important. And how that loved one recuperated from the challenge that she had met BDNF. Now the beating of gene has an important variation. A snip this time, which is either a G version or a version. Okay. TheG version, Jews and George as in guanine is the optimal version of BDNF, the optimal version. So if you're a GG blessed, that's good. You are naturally predisposed. You have the in Harrods, the innate ability to make more BDNF.

Speaker 3: (27:13)
And let me tell you that's a good thing. Any which way you slice it. Wow. An independent gene, the TPH to gene the trip to five hydroxylase gene to TPH, two gene, which is involved in how the body deals with serotonin. K two has a sip. It comes in a G version and a T version G as in George T as in Thomas. The G version is considered optimal but hold on. If you happen to be GG fatigue, pH two and GG for BDNF ostensively both those genotypes for each affair genes are optimal, but if you were GG for both, it creates a haplotype. It creates a combination that is an act risk combination and it is, it is the negative combination. It is the, it is the deleterious combination when it comes to certain aspects of human behavior. These individuals, when you're GGGG, they exhibit poor inhibition of negative emotional stimuli.

Speaker 3: (28:28)
In other words, when something negatively emotionally affects them, their ability to kinship, the ability to say, you know what, I'm not going to focus. I'm not going to hamster wheel constantly play that over and over over again. They haven't, they have a hard time giving up that when something gets under their skin. So to speak emotionally, they have a really hard time getting over it so they have a strong imprint. The memory imprint, very strong EMI, emotional memory imprint and of course the stronger you EMI emotionally memory imprints, the easier you emotional memory recall EMR is because the deeper something is imprinted then the smallest cue. You have a love, you have a partner and you know you love each other to bits, but like human beings, you're going to have your ups and downs. I mean it's where human beings after all, and on one particular evening you were both getting on each other's nerves and she was wearing that beautiful red dress and that was the evening that you both said things you shouldn't have said and it hurts the person who has this phenomena.

Speaker 3: (29:36)
Whenever he sees his wife, would that red dress down the road, everything's perfect. You, you're going up for a birthday party, you're both happy, it rises back up. He remembers that evening more than he should. It brings back to the surface and vice versa. This is that Paul, inhibition of negative emotional stimuli that lead to profound memory imprinting and therefore profound memory. Recall. The point of all of this and the reason I mentioned this is, and we're going to come back to the GSTT one, was to clarify, you see Lisa, it's not just about even the type of things you're looking for. What matters is the interpretation we sell the combination, we are reading the manual, not just flipping, picking words out.

Speaker 2: (30:24)
This is we have a calmer is well we are the, the apostrophes are this is someone that is what they would be more prone to PTSD

Speaker 3: (30:36)
100 that's the point actually and that is further exacerbated based on the no adrenergic pathway which dramatically increases the risk of PTSD. It is exacerbated based on how quickly they are removing their dopamine and noradrenaline via content. So what happens is you begin to pixelate a picture and you've got a low resolution picture and then the more intelligence information you put in, you start to increase the resolution of that picture. You start to get a clearer picture of the person that you're looking at. But to do so, you've got to know where to pick slate. If I'm trying to get a better look at what Lisa's face look like, I don't really be pixelating your toes. I need to pick slick your face and this, this ability to read intelligently. Lisa, I stress intelligently. Riyadh, human genome. Yeah, that's what we do. We do

Speaker 2: (31:35)
That is absolutely insane. And they've vacations because yeah, I would have seen, Oh, you've got a G G G is good, but I've just understood that nuance, that combination of things. And now I can't wait to get my reports and my family reports so I could because this helps us also understand like the speed in which you are dopamine is processed and gotten rid off or the speed of which we're saratonin tone and all of these things have a fixed on your personality and that we're not 100% to blame for some of our differences.

Speaker 3: (32:12)
Oh gosh, no. Gosh, no. In fact, what this needs to do on the one hand, it creates the empathy of appreciating, look, this is how some of this is their predisposition. Now, on the other hand, it is not to create a sense of fatalism. While that's the way I am, I know I have found and I have done. The only thing that I've done, probably somewhat unique and special Lisa, is I have reviewed thousands upon thousands of profiles. In terms of my in the world, most of my peers that work at the level I do would say Dr. Mansoor Probably reviewed the most genomic profiles in the world. I don't know if that's true or not, but I certainly have reviewed several thousand meaning meeting the patient, speaking with their doctor, looking at their health profiles and looking at underlining genetic phenomena to see if we can understand what's going on.

Speaker 3: (33:00)
You know what I found, at least as a fellow, when you empower a person to understand a predisposition, you, you might think that leads to fatalism, but when you explain the functional reality, it actually does the opposite. It gives the person a sense of ownership and then they can finally say, you know, I have dumped with my entire life, I've been this way and I just, I didn't even know why it was that way. Now that I can even understand what's going on, it gives me some closure. Yes, but it now gives me something to appreciate. I can, I can envision how this is working, how my emotions are working. I can now go, you know what? As soon as I see that stimulus that would have got me on that slippery slope, I'm going to stop. I'm not going to go down that slippery slope because I know if I do, there's no coming back for the next two weeks.

Speaker 3: (33:52)
So what we've found is that this crew all around it just creates empowerment. Which brings me now to the question that you asked about GSTT one and you are, your connections are on point, Lisa, the connection between the detox mechanism of the body. Here's the threefold, and of course it's a bit more complicated, but it's also remarkable. You can take complex systems, break them down to building blocks and keep the acuity. So there are three building blocks we need to look at when we connect detoxification pathways in the body and the immune system. And the, the only thing missing is the inflammatory system. So the triangulation between toxins and immune responses goes like this. The human body's insulted with whatever. It's insulted with the intentional, the unintentional of our daily lives, those toxins enter the body or they try to enter the body. Step number one, how individually efficient is that person at negating bio transforming, neutralizing those toxins either before they can enter the body, such as in the mucosa of the lung, the alveoli lumen, the the lining of the lung, such as the GI mucosa and so on.

Speaker 3: (35:16)
And so what can we, can we neutralize it so the toxin doesn't even get into the bloodstream? And of course to the degree that it gets into the bloodstream, can we live a hepatic re detoxified so that at least it does not by you accumulate in the body so that at least it does not reach levels that are unsafe. First step number one now too, there are genes, there are whole gene families, their whole cellular processes, GSTs, glutathione, ionization, UGI, Ts, glucuronidation, methylation, self, phonation and acetylation. These are the major enzymatic steps linked to genetic genes that are responsible for bio transforming neutralizing things in our body, okay? So what we need to do is we say, what is the lifestyle environmental context of the person? What are they getting exposed to? I'll be living in a home that has written with mold, are they living and so on and so forth.

Speaker 3: (36:17)
Okay, step number one, step number two, how good are they at individually neutralizing those toxins so as to not bio accumulate them to the degree that those, whatever. The answer to that question is we're going to have an individualization and with some individuals are better at getting rid of toxins and others are not. If a person is not genetically, innately efficient, optimal at getting rid of their toxins, then what happens? Well, what do toxins do? Toxins cause cellular inflammation, okay? And they cause inflammation via any number of methodologies. They can inflame cell surface receptors, they can get into the cell and create overproduction of oxidants as they can hamper the energy modules, the mitochondria. That's one of the places you'd never want toxins getting to. And of course they can get into the nuclear eye. They can get into the libraries of the operating manual and they can start to change gene expression.

Speaker 3: (37:23)
So toxins do all of these things. Ultimately, you see Lisa 15 not even 15 years ago, 10 years ago, if you told that a medical conference, there's this concept of inflammation. You'd have a lot of professionals. Well, come on, you gotta be more specific than that. We actually now know that there is a phenomena called chronic inflammation, and regardless of what stimulated that inflammation, bat bacterial toxin B, it's an inorganic chemical. It be it a physical inflammation. It does not matter the way the sun looks, the way the cell begins to behave when it has been insulted with toxins, with exposures, remarkably is the same regardless of the stimulus. Because chronic inflammation has hallmarks that are similar regardless of the stimulus. Now at that juncture, when the cell is inflamed, when the machinery in the cell isn't doing the job that it's meant to do properly, that cell now starts to be like this pulsing red thing just by analogy.

Speaker 3: (38:35)
In other words, the body is looking at it going, something's happening in there. It's not behaving the way it should. Okay, so now we're going to have two steps. The body now has an anti inflammatory set of steps to quiet us, to bring the cell back into line cause they Whoa, Whoa, hold on. You're starting to misbehave. There's too much inflammation. This is where it's selling the process known as methylation comes in. Cellular methylation can be viewed. It's a detox reaction by the way, but it is a cellular cascade that is radically responsible for bringing your soul from that humming, inflamed, you know, ticking bomb type of modality back down to acquire essence behavior. That's cellular methylation. Now, to the degree that you're able to do that, because suddenly methylation is a multigene cascade, multiple places where things could be not as optimal as we would like.

Speaker 3: (39:36)
So to the degree that we then triage, we stratify the patients based on their detox potential. We then stratify them based on their anti inflammatory potential. Now, to the degree that we are not quite yessing that chronic inflammation, this is where the immune system can be activated. Immune system was meant to be activated in acute episodes, not chronic episodes. The more you ask the cell to produce antibodies, IgG, IGA is IGMs, particularly IgGs. The more you keep telling that the body pump out IgG, something's not working right, something is there, which is why chronic infections are now very well understood to be linked to autoimmune diseases. The infection did, did not go away, constantly demanded of the body to produce antibodies. And somewhere along the line those antibodies begin to forget what was the bacteria or what and what was the self. And now we just start shooting friend and foe alike. Wow. This is the triangulation that has become now a focal point of so many diseases. Some diseases being more relevant to the whole, you know, things like lying disease. Do you guys have lung disease down in New Zealand?

Speaker 2: (41:05)
I think, yes, we do. And I think you know we have a massive problem with like thyroid, Hashimoto's sort of autoimmune diseases, crones, IVs. So this is, this is where the body is actually going in overdrive. So the, the original detox genes haven't been able to do their job because combination.

Speaker 3: (41:26)
There's that one. Exactly. There's inflammation. Yup.

Speaker 2: (41:33)
Yes.

Speaker 3: (41:33)
Methylation didn't do the job that was supposed to do and now we're triggering. So there are meta-analyses meta-analyses that show the deletion of the GSTT one gene or overall poor Ghouta finalization has been strongly linked with ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, IBD, strongly linked with ectopic asthma, particularly GSTP one in early childhood asthma. Then of course, if you, if you double down on poor math on poor detoxification with poor methylation, you really start seeing

Speaker 2: (42:10)
Clinical outcome. Yes. Yeah. So, so if we then we, we, we find out all this about ourselves. We find out we've got either the good or the bad and the ugly. And these combinations are not ideal. Then how, you know, we've got this information now, now we want to know what the heck do I do about this? I can't change my DNA. Of course, all things that these reports that your company does, for example, where it can actually lead to some successful outcomes. Obviously avoiding cigarette smoke or exhaust folk tunes and things your GPS deleted. But, but beyond that, nutraceuticals, new nutrients what can be done to help people.

Speaker 3: (42:52)
So it starts with, so the first thing I would have to say is we take our reports only so far. So the actual report, we take it to the point of explanation of what's happening. And there are certain recommendations, but the real magic must still come from a trained population, you know? So what, so what we do is through also training a certain class of healthcare providers. We might call them the, the new modern day biohackers. The healthcare providers who are really sniff, they're no longer just, you know, pill pushers. They're looking. So I just wanted to clarify. We take the reports, we explain the systems, we explain what's happening, but we also have to be careful so that people aren't jumping to conclusions and self-treating based. So you still want to have someone who understands the bigger picture. And by the way, that's the second part of what our company does.

Speaker 3: (43:47)
As per my travel schedule, I'm constantly traveling, teaching people, teaching auditoriums full of doctors who are now saying, listen, if I keep practicing medicine the way that I'm practicing, I'm just dealing with a disease population. I'm not healing people. Okay, so with that minor clarification, now we come to, let me paint a picture, paints a thousand words not to be, you know, blahzay here's what I like people to picture and here's what you would want to picture for yourself. Lisa. Picture slide. Okay, so there's a slide your screen, okay, and a circle. And then picture a circle on that screen somewhere on your screen. There's a circle. Now because you're a human being, your circle is going be on the screen. In other words, this is the screen of all human beings and your circle, you, your circle is somewhere on the screen or what does the circle represents? It represents your genetic makeup, which represents a part of your genetic makeup for whatever biochemical process we were studying. So this circle is Lisa's genomic pathway. Okay.

Speaker 3: (44:56)
I want you to then think of an equilateral triangle that equal three sided triangle that just perfectly encompasses your circle just perfectly. Your circle is perfectly encompassed just right in that triangle. And the emphases of this triangle are labeled environment, lifestyle and nutrition. Yes. What we're learning and what we're recognizing more and more is other than extreme cases, other than extreme cases, and there are mind you extreme cases where a particular genetic combination was really just a real doozy. And in other words, we're going to see some, you know, with the best of efforts, we're going to see some probably deleterious outcomes. Fair enough. But other than those extreme cases, for the vast majority of us, the spite, any inefficiencies we might have if we find the right triangulation of lifestyle, nutrition and lifestyle, nutrition and environment. If we could figure that out and it perfectly matches, I would circle.

Speaker 3: (46:08)
This is optimal health. So image, the image of optimal health is when you can find your genomic makeup, your circle for whatever you're studying and contextualize it perfectly within the right for you. For Lisa Laughlin, sir, not for Joanne Felisa. What is leases? Optimal lifestyle, nutrition and environment. Now the problem is, Lisa, when we begin working with a patient, obviously and clinicians with their patients, the vast majority of individuals, they do not know their circle. They don't know what's the economic influence. So they don't, and if you don't know your circle, your triangulation, choices of lifestyle choices, nutrition choices, and environmental choices offers skewed and they are not synergistic with your circle. So first objective of this, did you get that picture? Do you know when people say, well, it depends on your genes, your genes. It depends on how you're using your body. If you are, if you took, if you took five identical individuals, they were, you know, quintuplets identical, contemplative.

Speaker 3: (47:27)
If such a thing exists in today, the same genes and you give those five people at 35 years old, the exact diet. But if those five, one of them was an ultra marathon runner and extreme sports enthusiasts, the other was a couch potato, I don't know, doing whatever the other was a, you know, an accountant who had a nine to five job. We can exercise worrier, but from Monday through Friday really just goes to work, comes home, eats, goes to that and so on and so forth. Even with the same jeans, you can put the nutrition and an obviously not expect the same outcome because they got to know the genomic legacy. You've got to know what is the lifestyle context, what is the nutritional context, what is the environment or context? If one of the things quintuplets moved from your gorgeous country and move to massive metropolis with, you know, air quality, that breathing for one day is the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes in your beautiful country.

Speaker 3: (48:36)
He or she may have gotten away with a GSTT one or GSTP, one suboptimal ability. He's living in those, you know, that wonderful country views. He's practicing otherwise good, not eating foods with pesticides and herbicides and so on and so forth. And he was going about life actually, not really realizing there was any suboptimal ability until one day his job took him to a big metropolis somewhere. He lost track of the quality of his foods. He's just so busy. He's day in, day out breathing the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes and then six months into this, all things ELLs as equal, his jeans are equal, but he now starts to show symptomologies that he would never have had any different environment and a nice clean environment. Right? So this triangulation is so important. Now coming back to the specifics, once we understand the pathways, we begin first with the dose.

Speaker 3: (49:31)
It may seem simple, but it actually enters Lisa into, it's not just about the obvious things that you might imagine. I give the example, Lisa, and by the way, it's relevant to the GSTT one gene. Now, juice, TT. Let's focus on the T one. It's the big sister in the glue, the fine fabric. So GSTT one no, it's what's called a phase two detox pathway. Phase two detox. Because when it talks and enters the human body, we typically go through two steps. We take toxin a, we converted into an intermediate B. Yup. We take B further, convert that to C. C is what leaves the body, the B to C part of the transformation. That's where the GSTs come in. The a to B. This is where your cytochrome P four 50s come in. That's the phase one. Bio transforming enzymes. Now if I were to ask you something, when you say fiber to say, would it be a good practice for person to start drinking a nice cup of green juice?

Speaker 3: (50:38)
You know, like some juice, juice, broccoli and some maybe put a little bit of a baby spinach in there. A bit of ginger, maybe some cute, cute curcumin at the end of it. Would that be a really healthy drink? Yes. Something I do every day. Beautiful, beautiful. And it is healthy generally speaking. So now someone puts a blog together giving this recipe of something that's ostensibly so healthy and there's this mechanic who works in a shop all day with fuse and so on and so forth. He read this blog, she read this blog and she decides that before she goes to work, she's going to have this beautiful juice. This green juice that they read was so healthy and it was a detox juice and they feel good about themselves. Hold on, hold on. Many of the ingredients and not green juice. Many of the ingredients in that green shoes turn on certain phase one sip four 50 enzymes so as to accelerate the conversion of a to B.

Speaker 3: (51:54)
Now some of the toxins a that this mechanic was facing in her shop, in the, in the, in the mechanic shop that she was working at, when she converts a to B, we know that the B, the intermediate is truly more toxic than wow. And by the way, she did not know she was a GST one deleted individual. Oh, so what did we do to this young woman? We encourage the things that is that we're getting into her body. When she drove that beautiful healthy green juice, she more rapidly converted her A's into B and then ups B's and to CS very well. Wow. Even something that would ostensibly be really healthy by normal standards. Do you see that's a healthy nutrition on the triangle, but we did not ask what was the environment on the triangle and so now we have skewed her triangle away because her genetics circle, she does not have the GSTT one. Do you get that picture? This is a little bit frightening for people who are listening to this or who might be going well, what's the point being?

Speaker 3: (53:16)
This is weird. The reports have the super value, isn't it? That's the point. It's, it's actually not discouraging. It's, it's finally, and this is all gold. It's finally meant to unravel those nuances that there is such a thing. Have you been? How many of us, you know, we do something that 20 or the coworkers swore was the best thing since sliced bread and then we tried it and not only did it not work, we actually felt like crap or less healthy, and we, we're all aware of this until it's what is it led? It's led for most of us to become numb. We're just kind of get to that point where we're like, well, I don't know what's right for me or run for me. Plus today it says one thing tomorrow it says another thing. So creating some sanity from this confusion is what this goal is about and it can be done.

Speaker 3: (54:11)
Lisa, when you take your time to read things, intelligent meals, explain things. That's why we've got these epiphany moments that constantly, I like my consults with patients because I feed off of the energy. When a patient just, you see that epiphany admission and they light up and they go, Oh, that's why this hasn't been working with. That's why that was better for me. That's why I took methyl B12 because everyone's telling me methyl B12 is the best version. But every time I take methyl B is it just in my head. I get a headache every time I take micro B12 I get a, and then I go, no, actually I got one too. I can't take methyl before. That's an actual thing. I can't take methyl B12 because my methylation cascade is inconsistent with me taking methyl Beto when I take a dental Sobe 12. Oh, completely different.

Speaker 2: (55:07)
Wow. So this is getting really granular for each individual. And this is what makes me so excited. And, but before we go on, we have to go and cover off the hormone report. This is something that I and, and this is, you know, for me and any woman, but I wanted to focus a little bit more in on the woman. We've got very complicated hormones, households, but this was the cascade for men and women is very, very similar, isn't it? Yes

Speaker 3: (55:33)
It is. It's just remarkably, this is what we taught at the cost on the weekend after introducing genomics, it was the first open to eyes that the cascade, the circadian rhythm with which the human body converts progesterones into androgens, androgens to estrogens, men, we do not have a monopoly over androgens. Women, you do not have a monopoly over estrogens. In fact, your estrogens come from androgens. Men, we have estrogens. It's just a matter of the circadian rhythm. When is it happening? How quickly is it happening? And of course, ultimately how much of any of these hormones are produced. And then the final component is how responsive are you, the the woman's body, all things equal. She's designed with the estrogen receptors to be more responsive to estrogen. She responds to androgens as well. Conversely, for men. Now keep in mind something as simple as, I can't believe how many clinicians do not realize how an androgen or estrogen receptors.

Speaker 3: (56:32)
Now let's stop there for this cascade. We can talk about all of the things about how hormones are produced and how they're metabolized and so on and so forth. But ultimately, how is estrogen affecting your body? Lisa, you're a young woman. You're making estrogen as if you're menstruating or if you want hormone replacement, there's likely some estrogens in your body, one way or the other when estrogen binds to your estrogen receptor. And to the degree that that can happen, mind you, because there are variations to that fidelity, this complex estrogen. So the estrogen receptor androgen to Stastrom, DHT to the androgen receptor. These complexes are some of the most potent DNA transcribing complex. They go into the nucleus and the churn on genes. This is how estrogen and testosterone impacts the human body. They live. They're not just, I don't know, causing breast development or, or, or, or Andrew demise in the book.

Speaker 3: (57:39)
They do that by churning on the genes that cause the cells to behave in a more underutilized manner or more estrogen. So the first thing I want, our audience needs, our clinicians, we need to re re climatize reacquaint ourselves with that. These hormones potently DNA transcribing, they go into the nucleus and they turn on and off genes. That is why they are not to be dealt with trivially. Number one. Number two, in a menstruating woman. Now I just told you when estrogen enters a cell, I did binds its receptor. It's not just staying in the, in the Maloo of the South, it's going in to the volts, the nuclear volts and churning on and turning off genes. Wow. When you look at the ministerial cycle of, of a, of a relatively normal, repeatable menstrual cycle, you will notice something radically important over the course of 28 days.

Speaker 3: (58:43)
The human female body isn't exposed to estrogen at the same amount every day, not at all. The human female body in 20 days only has about a six day or so window in which your estrogens that are really elevated and then it comes down. In other words, what is this telling us from a human biology perspective? It's saying that the type of gene expression changes the epigenetic phenomena that estrogens cause on your operating manual. You don't want that to be consistent and constant across the month, and this is very frightening when you look at contraceptive pill or hormone replacement therapy. So it's most certainly very frightening. That is not, let me be clear. That is not to say that there isn't a place or a time for these things. You know they are absolutely a young woman has to have the right to how she treats her body and what she does.

Speaker 3: (59:47)
But there is a place in time you at least be equipped, at least be empowered before you make this decision as to a knowing what it's doing for you. Say, okay, look for these few months of my life, for these couple of years of my life, this is going to be a bit more important that I take these precautions, for example, but you should know that to do so indefinitely, month after month, year after year. Now they've got clinicians encouraging young woman not to even have a bleed through. There's no point for even the bleed. So just stay on the, you know, constant level, 24 seven three 65 15 years. How is this compatible with normal human physiology? When you understood what I just said? Yep. Now let's go a step further than that. You see estrogens do what we just said. They bind their receptors, they go into the cell so they go into the nucleus.

Speaker 3: (01:00:47)
They change gene expression as they're meant to for brief periods during the month. Fair enough. Now, once those estrogens have done what they've done for those days, then the point of it is there's a circadian rhythm. The body breaks down those estrogens metabolizes them by a transforms them so that they're no longer active. They've been neutralized, and then we hit repeat, rinse and repeat, and we start a new cycle. But here's the point. Every a woman, Lisa, every a woman, a man for that matter, but let's focus on the ladies when she made her estrogens or she took her estrogens, because even whether you take it or whether you make it innately or you take it, it doesn't matter. You've got to metabolize the estrogen. Now, every young woman can metabolize estrogens into three byproducts. I estrogen 400 Z estrogen, 16 hours for hydroxy estrogen. Every human being does this, and this is a crucial point.

Speaker 3: (01:01:49)
Absolutely. But these three metabolites do not impact yourselves in the same way you say. If you thought of it, you've made the estrogen small window. Now you want to neutralize it so that the body isn't under its constant influence. So you want this metabolite, this estrogen, this hub light to have lost bind to the receptor. You want it to last. It's estrogen Ising properties. Lo and behold, four estrogen, one of those three metabolites retains the ability to bind the estrogen receptor. In fact, some studies show it might be an even more potent comm when it, when it binds and it creates this, this common, a tutorial, Leiden and receptor, it's DNA. Transcribing effects are even more potent, much like the analogy between DHT and the androgen receptor versus testosterone. DHT dihydrotestosterone, which is a metabolite of testosterone, has a higher potency binding affinity to the androgen receptor.

Speaker 3: (01:03:00)
Four hydroxy estrogen is to the estrogen receptor as DHT is to the androgen receptor. Wow. The ability innate tendency of a young woman when she's faced with estrogens to make either the two hydroxy which is considered protective because has lost or the four hydroxy that inmate differentiation is radically genetically determinable. Now, if something as simple as that, Lisa, when you stitch these things together, when you understand, look, estrogen should be my body needs security and rhythm. I do not want estrogen is constant. When I break down those estrogens, I want my body to have had a break from them. And you did not know whether you were four hydroxy dominant or not. If you had a tendency to make more of the four hydroxy than the two and why is four hydroxy so naughty? Three reasons. A, it binds the estrogen receptor, not giving your body a break from the estrogen ization one to four hydroxy estrogen if you are not flushing it out of the body and how do you flush out for drugs, the estrogen through methylation, the comp gene, which is catechal methyl transfers an oops.

Speaker 3: (01:04:29)
Can you imagine if you were innately genetic info, hydroxy dominant and have the slow comps because now you're making too much four hydroxyestrone you have a tendency to do so. You do not have the enzymatic ability to get rid of it. Now you buy your stagnate, your four hydroxy Astrid. Do you know what full hydroxy estrogen does other than binding the estrogen receptor and Quinones? Quinones? Listen, my God, you're speaking more than some of the best medical biologists that I've spoken to. So the, the decompose into Quinones and do you know what Quinones do? They get into your DNA. They stick to, they are mutagens. They stick to your DNA, causing the DNA to not be able to unravel and repair itself and by the Quinones then cause accidents. So here's what you don't want to be. You don't want to be the young woman who is genetically predisposed to overly produce four hydroxy estrogen simultaneously, have a poor comp, simultaneously, have a low GSTT one GSTP one, which was the thing, Quinones, and then have a poor mitochondrial superoxide dismutase or antioxidation to get rid of the oxidants

Speaker 2: (01:05:52)
And add to that. You're in your forties or your 50s and you're making more EstroZen,

Speaker 3: (01:05:57)
Which is a breast tissue because it's not in the liver anymore. The liver organ, at least it was designed for that type of metabolism. You're doing this in the breasts, you know, God forbid. Okay,

Speaker 2: (01:06:10)
This is where the cancers can come in

Speaker 3: (01:06:13)
This is weird and just why we have the the epidemiologic rise during that shift where the woman's body shifts from doing that grunt work in her liver, which was designed for it to doing that grunt work in such as breast tissue, cervical tissue, an ovarian tissue and so on and so forth. Which of course the human body, the female body does not express estrogen receptors, the same level for every cell type. You know, when you were, we lobby at nine years old and you could have gone outside, you know, flat chested like any other boy and you know, and then when, when men awe kits and the body changed your elbows and forms didn't change, it was suitable zone. Those are the zones that have more estrogen receptors.

Speaker 2: (01:07:03)
And this is so this is how we can see like when you're looking at the phenotype, if we can go look like the the the hormone cascade just for people that are listening, it's going from producer owns and pregnenolone's into testosterone's which can sometimes go into DHT and which then go into the estrogen. Is thrown in your estradiol if you're pregnant when you're older you have more strokes coming in which are, that's coming from the the other top of testosterone isn't it? One on one and then it's means a lighter than these three path rates into the two hydroxy four hydroxy and 16 alpha hydroxy, two hydroxy being the good pathway and anti inflammatory. The four hydroxy being the dangerous one and this is where you've got a lot of PMs symptoms. If you've got your breast tissues like talking person on the end, this is probably too much information, but month like I've been on hormone replacement therapy and this is why I'm so excited about the hormone situation because obviously I've been put on a standard dose all the way through. It's DHT.

Speaker 3: (01:08:16)
Now all of those can turn into, other than the DHT, the progesterones testosterone, even D H E A to the estrogens. The DHT will have gone past a pathway that it's not going to come back to estrogen. It can, by the way, reverse pathway affects certain things. They send signals back up the chain, the body. Oh yes, absolutely. The body is always looking for, you know, but I mean that's the whole way in which the hormone in which the pill, the contraceptive pill works, that when you give estrogens to the female body, the female body says, well, hold on. If I'm getting it from somewhere, I no longer need to make it internally because it's just showing up. We don't know where it's showing up from the body speaking to itself, which by the way is why when a lot of women, when they take the, they go on the pill, they find certain degrees of waking, loss of libido.

Speaker 3: (01:09:12)
Why? Because when you took this premade us, of course, this is not for all women because it depends on the genetic cascade, but for some women you give them estrogen premade and the body goes, well, I know mama need to make estrogens. If you don't, if you no longer need to make estrogens, what were you making? Estradiol from testosterone. And so if I go give the female body just extra dial and she goes, well, I no longer need to make my own Estradal do you know what? Ellis is not going to be made very efficiently. You have to start strong. That's why so many young women, they go on the pill, they find not all. They find the libido tanks on them. They find that they gain weight, they find that their body goes into an estrogen dominance and of course they OBG or they go, Oh no, that's, don't worry.

Speaker 3: (01:09:58)
No, that's just normal occurrence. Well, it's not a normal occurrence on this. You know what your pathway is. Are you shutting it down permanently? Like if you're on the pill box, these are, these are epigenetic feedback phenomena, right? Because remember when that extra dial enters the gene expression profile. So think of a think of a Rubik's cube, okay. And think of a Rubik's cube that has been mixed up. Okay. And it's, you know, it's been, it's been altered in whatever way, all of the combinations of the colors of that Rubik's cue in that time and that mode that's representative of the genes that are on and off at a given period of time. And so think of a particular Rubik's cube and that particular mix is what happens when there's estrogen izing going on. Okay. Now the Rubik's cube needs to go back to its pre solved mode where everything is nice and set, okay.

Speaker 3: (01:11:02)
The time with which the gene expression, the time with which it can revert. This is a critical phenomena. It does revert, but it tends what the storylines, so for example, the gene expression, the pro inflammatory gene expression changes caused by the insulin insulin receptor complex, almost an identical phenomena. When insulin binds to the insulin receptor, it leaves the cytoplasmic membrane, goes into the nucleus, just like the AR testosterone, ER estrogen receptor and causes gene expression, the insulin insulin receptor motif. The gene expression that it causes is very pro inflammatory, very proinflammatory. Now the body can return to its non-interest inflammatory status within hours to days for the estrogens and the hormone cycle. It takes longer.

Speaker 2: (01:12:06)
So you can this will be affecting woman's fertility. I mean, I've had fertility issues and I was ill from the age of 13 because I had issues. So they put me on the pill to mask these issues. Now what I'm expecting to see in my reports when they come back, and I don't know that I have a dominance of four hydroxy because I've had fibroids and so on and infertility and, and all of these sort of concomitant sort of problems. Now I just want to go in a little bit deeper into this. What is your take then? Is it possible to have hormone replacement therapy? Because obviously there are benefits to having these hormones in our body. The aging, can I, will I be able to, you know, and not just me, but will I be able to tweak it so that I can get the right amounts on the right days of the produced around the insurgence and the DHI and be able to do that safely without causing cancers and so on.

Speaker 3: (01:13:07)
So it's a brilliant question. Now we've must answer that question is, and so let me just say this, and this is not just to be a blanket disclaimer. I am absolutely emphasizing being on a birth control, whether it's a pill or not being on hormone replacement, BHRT or versions of it. Not only is it appropriate in certain separate circumstances, it's lifesaving. It's life transformative in a positive way. In many circumstances, we were by no means saying, or even trying to hint that it should, that women, young women meant menopausal, but should be deprived of this by God. No first to begin with, despite any evidence of the O the other. That's a young woman's body. She makes the decision what's happening to her body. So no two ways. We're not tenting of that. What we're saying is everyone and the scientific literature, we understand that the outcomes of these things, the outcomes of a hundred young woman going on the same birth control pill, a hundred young, middle aged woman going and home and replacement, we absolutely know that there are differential outcomes visiting risks for certain deleterious outcomes, be the strokes on the pill, be the country effects or others on hormone replacement.

Speaker 3: (01:14:25)
We know this happens. So what we're trying to say is do we just leave it as a statistic? Do we just say there's a 10% risk increase? Or do we say, look, you fall in the bucket where we can really tease out, are you specifically the person that is at risk or conversely beautifully, you're not the person that is at risk. So if you do choose to be in BHRT, you can do so now without necessarily that ghostly whisper, a fear that many young women have even when they choose to go. So it works both ways. Now. Now to answer your question, when you understand that these hormones are causing gene expression changes and these gene expression changes are what bolters cell behavior to any number of outcomes, we need to stop looking at hormone replacement. If we're going to do it intelligently, we've got to start to understand that the human body is a cicadas Ian creature.

Speaker 3: (01:15:29)
Yeah, we are. We are circadian within our 24 hours. We have circadian within monthly. It's why ancient wisdom talks about the moon cycles and so forth. There's actually wisdom in these things that the human body is a sick Cajun creature. Even the foods we eat, the different seasons. Often when you look really carefully, they, they and the people who were indigenous to that religion, it's speaks to certain nutrients that the body needs more at certain times versus other times. It's one of the reasons when we coach people, when we talk to people about taking micronutrients, we are by no means a four. In fact, we are against the one-ton, you know, 50 million things. If micronutrients every morning at 7:00 AM gobble, gobble, gobble. Because that's not how the human body was designed. You know, even if I told you you needed these 15 ingredients at these different concentrations within 24 hours that you need your body needs, that it doesn't mean that I can give you the 15 things all at once at 7:00 AM no, these nutrients, the body, because neutrals do what they get into the cells.

Speaker 3: (01:16:42)
They act as building blocks, but they also act to change gene expression. And again, I want you to to, to focus on the fact coming back to the hormones that these hormones are causing gene expression changes. So the first thing we have to do is we need to become better acquainted with what are the healthy changes that hormone replacement is accomplishing. Not just what is healthy, but when is it healthy and the amplitude of the changes. All three things are different, but yet correlated the what, the when, and the how much of the change. Okay? Now secondly, we have to understand that when we take hormones as part of an anti aging or or rejuvenating or simply actually therapeutic, forget auntie, just simply therapeutic. For this, for this menopausal young woman to be able to sleep, for heaven's sakes, and to be able to know these are things you can't tell this young woman, she shouldn't try a healthy BHRT protocol, but when did we realize what the home ones are doing?

Speaker 3: (01:17:53)
Think about it. Are we supporting the mitochondria? Are we changing gene expression causing the cells to behave differently? But we've paid no attention to other mitochondria. The energy power plants keeping up with the changes that we're bringing about because of the gene expression, because of the hormone replacement. Are we doing that? Are we are we accomplishing based on nutrient protocol that which was better suited for these changes? So the, that's the long lens. The short answer is this. Therefore most certainly can. We come to a genomic to a hormone replacement protocol, but we need to look at the individuality. You see, quick granularity. A woman converts her pregnant alone into her androgens via the gene sub 1781 CYP 17 alpha one. This gene and its associated enzyme comes in a faster version and a slow version. Slow here is not bad. Slow is actually desirable.

Speaker 3: (01:19:01)
It's the beneficial version. So in other words, by comparison to the fast version of the enzyme, the slow version of pregnant loaned to androgen is universally considered all things equal, healthier. No, just that one. This one piece of information a young woman has the fast sub 1781 a young woman has the slow sub 1781 I choose to put them on hormone replacement. She chooses to go home with a bracelet with pregnant alone progesterone. But by giving these two women the same progesterone dose, the potential that is brought about in the young woman who had the fast sub 1781 is more than the Andrew divinization potential than the young woman that had the slows, etc. And then of course I made my androgens, but then of course my sip 19 a one aromatase is going to take that to Stastrom and converted into extra dialogue or that understand beyond and converted into a strong, and by the way, the aromatase, 1981 comes in a faster medium and a slow version.

Speaker 3: (01:20:10)
Did I know which version this young woman has? So should she be on a protocol that is progesterone to SaaStr and the estrogen is she was, she had the fast 17 I'm fascinating. A woman that has a fuss sip 1981 and the fast sub 1781 and this put on a triad hormone replacement. She's going to be a young woman that quite likely we are all over estrogen [inaudible] because everything in that cascade, the progesterones are going to androgens. The androgens are going to estrogens, the estrogens. We're giving our estrogen problems, God forbid, and there will be a disaster for that. When a woman says she would be at risk for both, this is what we've clearly shown and repeatedly shown in the data at least I can't tell you how many young women fall into the buckets that they were four hydroxy dominant with poor content or poor detox and they should.

Speaker 3: (01:21:19)
Again, we're talking about we see thousands of patients, not tens or hundreds, thousands. And I can't tell you how many young woman, if that category came to the clinic thinking they had Lyme disease because it's a phenomena and it's a problem here in South Ontario, Northeast America. Why? Because four hydroxy estrogen and Quinones cause the same neuro inflammatory effects as newer Berlioz's you don't, I just had to ask them one question and they were convinced they had chronic Lyme disease and by the way, the tests were coming back negative, are you for Lyme testing at the most sensitive levels. And I said, have you been pregnant in the last six years that you taught? You had lying? And then the young woman said, yes. And I said, did you notice that while you were pregnant, your symptoms went away? And her eyes opened up and she began to cry and she goes, [inaudible], I actually told my husband, I wish I could just stay pregnant because when I'm pregnant I get a relief from all of my symptoms.

Speaker 3: (01:22:21)
And then I had to point out to her, when you're pregnant, you as trial dominance and your body isn't making the four hydroxy estrogen, what are you getting when you're pregnant? Is you getting a relief from extra toxicity if you had Lyme disease, Lyme disease, this doesn't take a holiday during pregnancy. Right? And so the estrogen dominance and estrogen toxicity, I was a two different, two different, absolutely. A woman can be estrogen dominant and be perfectly nontoxic. She, you know, she, she has a certain physiology that's consistent with her estrogen dominance. She lives her life perfectly healthy because when she makes those estrogens maybe a bit more, you know, body type, but she's breaking them down efficiently. She's methylating the two hydroxy efficiently and a little bit of four hydroxy. She's detoxifying the GSTs and the soup and she's as healthy as can we being all things equal her how her diet or lifestyle environment.

Speaker 3: (01:23:26)
So you first should determine what we call the androgen estrogen balance. So where are you on the, on on the spectrum from androgen dominance to estrogen dominance? Rubin, this is relevant to men and women. Okay. So where are you then off to that you go, depending particularly for the woman, depending on your estrogen dominance or not. Where are you with extra toxicity? See how many young woman Lisa, they were extra toxic, extra toxic, meaning they, they had the predisposition, there's sip one B, one surgical P for 51 B one which is the enzyme pathway to go to the full Hydrox agent that was dominant in them. They may or may not have had the low comp and other features. They will extra toxic, but they will, I'm sure dominant. Then we go. So that as a, as a teenager, these young women, they were more athletic, leaner. They did have some irregularities with their menstrual cycle. Mind you often times, but they were lean or they were able to put on, you know, not very, not much wisdom development, leaner cut, muscle strain and so on. And so they were Andrew dominance.

Speaker 3: (01:24:46)
But then because of wanting to normalize their menstrual cycles, sometimes they get, now during this period of time they were underdominance blessing, which was come a flashing, the extra toxicity. Now you put this young woman and you go and you give her premade estrogen, which her body had not been doing in an almost self preserve in this, in this beautiful, miraculous way in which things tend to occur in the right combinations. But now you go there for estrogens, what have you done? You have literally pulled the Komodo open and exposed her extra toxicity and then all the things that you start seeing happening. And by the way, we've had ideal thanks to brilliant young scientists, dr Dan Turner and his mentor before him and the Walsh at the red bull high-performance division. So of course you certainly know, but the red bull, high performance athletes, we, Dr. Turner and I, we have screened many of the most elite Redbull high performance athletes in a, in a, an amazing program, but that the chairman has put together, including the genetics and the genomics that we do.

Speaker 3: (01:26:06)
And along the way we met these, you know, goober, athletic young movement that works so high-performing, but at a certain point, you know, early twenties for other personal reasons, stuff went on the pill and all hell broke loose in terms of health body weight metrics and you know, per per performance that is only to very classically observe that she was the very fact that she was such a really good triathlon. Try athletic young woman per the body type was, she was a very unsure Dominic JIA woman. She was antra dominant but didn't realize she was extra toxic and that extra toxicity only showed its ugly head once she went on the birth control pill. Wow.

Speaker 2: (01:26:52)
And then does the sporting performance change? Do they get more hip FLIR brace development and new light? You know,

Speaker 3: (01:27:03)
I mean I'm somewhat embarrassed by the degree of accuracy. If I see a young woman's genomic profile without ever having seen them, I could actually predict body type. I can predict proclivity to Southern lights. These are not by the, these are not Lucy goosey. This is real post inflammation, vascular events, propensity for adipose tissue development. And that position, they're all driven to a large degree

Speaker 2: (01:27:33)
Awesome pathway. And this is where it's so frustrating, you know, when you're dealing with we, you know, we coach 700 athletes and we've got a lot of women who are athletes and who are striving with the weight despite perfect diet, what you would consider a very good diet, exercising crazily. And then they, they, they still putting on weight. They still got cellulite, they're still got, and they're like, what do I need to do? Why don't I look like that girl down the road? Who's exercise one iota? Like, you know, Elle McPherson? What is the difference? You know, it's very, there's a really

Speaker 3: (01:28:10)
Personal things that, that can really needle away, can really erode away at yourself. Confidence. Not because of not being body encompassing and being proud of yourself. No, that's not the point here. The point is to the degree of what you, a young woman or young man thinks they're putting in and they're not seeing what they perceive to be the outcome, you know, they begin to go,

Speaker 2: (01:28:34)
One, am I doing it?

Speaker 3: (01:28:35)
Why am I doing it for right? And so to help them a have that epiphany, the epiphany moment it says, by the way, when I asked a young woman and I say, look, have you started noticing, well do you notice per your Pernod looking at their profile? So they're like, why are you asking me this? When I say, have you noticed the three to five days prior to your menstrual cycle, you really get a bit more breast tenderness and you know, nipple tenderness. Yes. So those three to five days prior to menstruation are the days that your body is particularly to the degree of your, the, the, the hydroxy, the four hydroxy two hydroxy, that's when those things are accumulating in the body. And if you happen to be more four hydroxy dominant, you're going to show profoundly more signs of inflammation. And of course as you get closer and closer to that pre perimenopause period when you become more estrogen dominant, and hence the four hydroxyl Strohn is showing up in the breast to Seymour and hence the symptomology, right?

Speaker 3: (01:29:36)
So once you can show these young woman that thought was that they just fought, were, you know, just a narrow personal, crazy perception, they just never could understand it. And you join the dots for them. What you've done here, Lisa, is you've empowered them and it's not fatalistic. And then brings to the last point to the degree that you see the pathway is to the degree that you might then often, not always, I want to be clear there, they're still phones. You know, when I teach Lisa, the first slide that I put up says humility have to have the humility that by no means do we understand everything far from it far from it. But should that leave us feeling and capable to act? No. Because of the things that we do know. And as we're continuing this, this has been the way that any type of health and medicine is practiced.

Speaker 3: (01:30:33)
You practice what you know to the best of your ability and the more you understand, you bring it in without choking on it. You bring it in bit by bit until you find that happy place where your body and, and the other thing, Lisa, is once you understand these gene expression changes, keep in mind the diet, the lifestyle that was potentially the work for those things that were potentially optimal few in your 20s you might often the not copies sitting in your forties going, well that's what worked for me in my twenties well the way in which your genomic manual was being used in the 20s is not the same. It's the same genomic millennial, but it's not being used in the same way 20 years later or 25 years later.

Speaker 2: (01:31:22)
Oh this is just absolutely mind. Like talk to me. So I could honestly, I'd love to just sit for days like this, learning from you.

Speaker 3: (01:31:33)
I've, I learned, I learned more honestly and I don't, I'm not just saying that because these are the conversations that you know, as you digest these things and this is what's going to happen, Lisa, God willing when you and you will, we will do your profile together. You are the N of one, right? So when you learn about these things, what happens is you, the person who then starts to sit in soup a minute, hold on, is this related to this is this symptomology, is this? And that's where the data comes from. That's the only that cause no one collects N of one data points. In fact, it's the variant of a meta analysis. It's the antithesis of that analysis. But data is at the end of one. That's where your data is out, you know. So for example, you know, this is a coolant and maybe as we wrap up with this I know ask individuals, I say, you know, do you happen to be one of those individuals?

Speaker 3: (01:32:32)
And when you get an insect by just, just a regular regular insect, like are you the person for whom that insect bite stays flared up? You know, it, she and ERC's some much longer than the average person as we know, some of us that have. And if you say yes, it's an awesome predictor that your methylation cycle is suboptimal. Oh wow. And not just that. It is almost always associated with the suboptimal SHMT one. And MTR suing hydroxy methyltransferase and methionine synthase. Those two genes when suboptimal in the methylation cascade is extremely closely correlated by asking a completely benign, completely mundane question, what insect bites you would be amazed by the acuity of the association. Because the inset back inflammation we said very early in the Columbus, inflammation is inflammation. It doesn't matter what initiates the inflammation. If you are unable to douse the fire of your inflammation, whatever caused it, be repetitive joint injury, be it surgery, be it bacteria, infection, viral infection, toxic inflammation, your methylation isn't working properly.

Speaker 2: (01:33:50)
Wow. So these, Oh man, these insights have just absolutely this, this is gonna change the entire one. I'm hoping it will. The entire medical model, you know, w drugs that we're taking, the hormone stuff that were taking [inaudible], I mean T S Wiley and the cyclic nature of the hormones. Going back to the hormones. I'm in the middle of her book at the moment and the whole cycle. And joining the dots. And then, you know, we, we do also epi epigenetics, which is again, another important piece of the puzzle.

Speaker 3: (01:34:25)
Hugely important, hugely important. Lisa in New Zealand. What's the first new one for fatiguing, baby teething and, and fevers. What's the first drug? What's the first do you guys use baby Panadol baby Tylenol?

Speaker 2: (01:34:40)
Yeah, Panadol. Panadol I think. Yup.

Speaker 3: (01:34:43)
So in, in North America more so. It's acetaminophen. BBC. You Tylenol. Okay. So here's a drug, Lisa, to this point, when you talk about honestly changing a mindset, so if you take as human beings, literally the first and most used drug in the human population is often a set of manifests from an Crawler is acetaminophen Tylenol is that pain? Is that analgesic thick? Antipyretic that we use from the earliest from BBT, they and fevers vaccination posts factors into adulthood. Okay, fair enough. Acetaminophen, what it is metabolized by sip to E one to Edward, one is converted into a noxious, it's in the same family as the Quinones, not Q. So acetaminophen, which is the analgesic when it is first metabolized from a to B by cytochrome P four 50 to Edward, one to Epsilon one gets converted into a potent liver toxin, not Q. Q remove from the body via GSTT one.

Speaker 3: (01:36:02)
Now, if he knew that you had the fast sip to E1 and the deleted GSTT one, do you really think you one Tylenol is your go to medication from the time you were four months old onto do you just just stop? One thing that one thing that when we open our medicine cabinets in developed countries or in any country, you open that cabinet, everyone's giving their children. Again, I am not saying don't treat a fever. I'm by no means say don't use Tylenol if you're in pain and it happens to be what's appropriate for you. But I am saying, can you imagine? We said we're not more intelligent about these things. Ibuprofen does not go through that pathway. So if you have this potential combo, consider using ibuprofen as your pain killer, not acetaminophen and so on and so forth. So these are all parts of the same puzzle. What is the puzzle? The human genome, what is the solution? Intelligent, non superficial, meaningful reading of the manual. That's what has to happen. That's what we've committed our lives to. And that's what I hope God willing to leave as my legacy.

Speaker 2: (01:37:24)
You're definitely doing that Dr. Mansoor I'm just a comic. So excited for that. What this will bring in the future, the suffering that this is gonna save the the people's lives. This is going to say and you know, I'm, as I'm as passionate and my way about this as well now and I'm, I'm going to be a part of this. I'm bringing this out to the world. So I'm super excited. We're going to try to get dr mentor those listening. We're trying to bring dr mentor down later on this year to New Zealand. My big goal, I've got to go and work out how the heck we make this happen. But you know, with oil there's a way,

Speaker 3: (01:38:01)
If you, if you invite me, I'll, you know, just it just, it's just I'm, I'm, I'm beyond honored. I'm, I'm tickled pink. I will find my way down there and, and to whomever would want to listen and, and just, you know, we're just, we're trying to create something that is based on good knowledge that is created on by flow of information and by flow energy. Just people that want to make a change and not, not make a change because, you know, there's sometimes we change just for change sake. No, we want to make a change where it matters and, and empower people and this is where it comes to. It ultimately comes down to empowerment. It comes down to your energy leases. Just awesome. It's such an honor speaking with you. Please. Whenever, if ever you need something from me or you feel like there's something else that I might be able to help with, it would be my single on her to help you.

Speaker 2: (01:38:53)
Oh, documents and what you just absolute gold. I can see like your passion comes through in your words and the abs. Talk to Sanjay, one of your colleagues that you have on your team and he just says, Dr. Mansoor Does not have any hobbies. This is his life. He is timesing the world and I totally get this guy and you have a, a massive vision and I can see that vision and I can see that this is going to help so, so many people. So thank you so much for your time today. Document or it's just been

Speaker 3: (01:39:26)
Absolute honor and to, to all of the, what do we call New Zealand is the Kiwi. There we go. So to all of the Kiwis and beyond the Kiwis, I have actually a different story, a different time. I have a, and I'm not saying this to be a locating or to be in, you know, self engendering to your community. I have a particular love. Someone that is exceedingly dear to me is from New Zealand and as a whole, it's that this love the people there. You got your governance there. It's just a different modality. And so if I ever come down though, if I have the honor to come in September, October, September, I think

Speaker 2: (01:40:02)
Maybe he's more, we're hoping for September. That's what we're aiming for. So I'd be the one that would be grinning from ear to ear to mid. So thank you so much for your time. I know you've been because Austin and you're still stuck on here for an hour. This is, I'm sorry my apologies. Fucking carried on too much.

Speaker 4: (01:40:23)
If your brain is not functioning at its best and check out what the team do at www.vielight.com Do now vielight producers, photo biomodulation devices. Now your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light, revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and for other age related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at that's V I E L I G H t.com and use the code T A M A T I at checkout to get 10% off any of the devices.

Speaker 1: (01:41:13)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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  In this interview, Lisa talks to physiotherapists, entrepreneurs and podcaster Brodie Sharpe on the science of pain, how pain starts in the brain and how we can negatively reinforce or positively intercept pain and the experience of it.  Lisa and Brodie do a deep dive into the psychology of pain and injury and how to optimize your healing abilities.  They also delve into REDS - Relative Energy Deficit and it's implications for optimal sporting performance and health and much more. Brodie is the host of " The Run Smarter Podcast" and is an online physio you can find Brodie at the following links.         Links to facebook group: 'Become a smarter runner' https://www.facebook.com/groups/833137020455347/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brodie.sharpe/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrodieSharpe Website: www.breakthroughrunning.physio     Bio: Graduated from Masters of Physiotherapy 2012. Owner of The Breakthrough Running Clinic: Online Physiotherapy for runners of all abilities. Podcast host: The Run Smarter Podcast.   **We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:**  www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com  For Lisa's **New Book Relentless** visit the website below to order *https://shop.lisatamati.com/products/relentless*  *When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.* *She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.*

**For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and** documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com  **For Lisa's online run training coaching go to** https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. **Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program** https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes

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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
If your brain is not functioning at its best checkout what the team at vielight.com do now be like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at vielight.com that's V I E L I G H t .com and use the code Tommasi at checkout to get 10% off any of their devices. Now this week I have running physiotherapists, Brodie sharpe, two guest from Melbourne. Now, Brody has been on the podcast earlier talking about prevention of running injuries, but today we delve a little bit deeper into the science of pain, how much our brain influences and the way we frame a pain in our minds and our perceptions of it and how that actually affects our healing process.

Speaker 2: (01:28)
So it's a really, really interesting topic. We also get into a relative energy deficit which is looking at overtraining in the problems associated with pushing your body too hard, too fast when you don't have enough nutrients going in. So make sure you check this out. Now before I go and hit over to Brody, just want to remind you my book relentless is coming out next week. So the time of this podcast is the beginning of March and it's going to be out on the 11th of March. So if you're listening to this after that date, it will already be published. We are going to be launching starting a new Plymouth and we have a launch tour going right through New Zealand. So if you're keen to come and meet me, if you want to find out more about the book you can come and meet me at one of the launch events.

Speaker 2: (02:14)
Head on over to Lisa Tamati And you'll see the book launch tour and you can also already preorder the book now at my show in my shop. So Lisatamati.com Push the shop button and it will take you over to the box and the shop. Okay, so now over to Brodie sharpe in Melbourne. Well, hi everybody. Welcome back to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati today. I have Brodie sharpie with me, Brodie is in Australia and he is a physiotherapist with a bent for running people by putting an eyebrow Barney. And Barney has been already a guest on the show. We don't have many repeat these solar shy, but Brody's knowledge is just insane. He has really some specialized areas that he's working in that and I want

Speaker 3: (03:00)
It to Shay with you guys, his latest insights and also he's got a brand new podcast themselves. So he's going to tell you a little bit about that. But for only welcome to the show. Thanks Lisa. Thanks for having me. And congratulations with the new book as well. Oh, thanks. It's not a Coke maybe know two weeks and I can at least get this baby out, but it's been a rough road now Brodie, just because people haven't heard your first interview that we did, can you give them a quick sort of synopsis of who you are and what you do? Yeah, sure. So I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I've been a physiotherapist for about seven years. This go into my it and now, and it was about two years into my physio career that I started running and becoming a runner and just realized as soon as I started running and went through my own running injuries myself, that I just became a lot more passionate seeing Ramez.

Speaker 3: (03:59)
And as soon as the Ronald would come in the door, I'd have this like and passion and just want to talk about all things running all like, do you measure your cadence, what are you training for, what shoes you're wearing, all that sort of thing. And yeah, I just was really passionate about ah, getting them back onto the track and seeing them achieve their running goals and just overcoming the injuries, getting back to whatever goals I have and sort of bound a need and wanted to just address that more. I want to say more runners. I want to say more people getting back to the running goals. And so started a couple of things. I started everyday running legends podcast, which was like a passion project of mine. Trying to inspire a lot of people. And now I've just transitioned to a bit more on the business side of things.

Speaker 3: (04:49)
Starting my new company, it's called the breakthrough running clinic and I'm offering a online physio for runners. Yeah, yeah. Has taken me into then the last couple of months starting another podcast called the run smarter podcast. Wow. That's a whole lot for a to be doing one at once. Cause I know what it's like to start a new company in online especially. So congratulations on that. And you know, the last time we did speak gosh, it must be a year and a half or something like that ago. Yeah, you were thinking about the sentence. It's really nice to see that you've actually taken the leap in starting to transition out and onto your own and then into your own employer and you know, in your editing all the time to your knowledge base. And that's what I really love about you, is that you're, you're constantly on the search for the next and the, you know, constant learning. So we've, we've got a lot to talk about today. So Brodie, I wanted to start and yeah, everybody go and check out the run smarter podcast. So make sure you do subscribe to that and, you know, take advantage of meeting these core people by the forecasts

Speaker 2: (05:57)
And get more knowledge from Bryony. But probably let's talk about now going into pain and what is pain? And we've all experienced it. Well, none of us like it. Well, most of us don't. There's a few myths that's around, but what does Brian, and why is the brain what does pain and what does the brain have to do with it and why is it so important to be looking at deeper levels of pain and what, what's going on?

Speaker 3: (06:23)
Yeah. Cool. I should start with like, I'm no expert on the actual pain science, but I have delved into a lot of the books in a, all of the research and I've put together a little bit of a mini series a, my new podcast about this. It's the pain science explaining the pain science and it's hard for people to kind of wrap their mind around because a lot of people get really defensive when a health professional or doctor talk to someone about their chronic pain and say, it's all in your head. And, Hmm. I've had clients in my clinic come in with years and years of low back pain or knee pain and they sit down, they're a bit frustrated and they say, the doctor says it's all in my head, but it's not all in my head. I can feel it and I kind of associate it all being in their head, like they're making it up. Yeah. But that's not the case at all. And we have known for a long time now that 100% of the pain that you experience is from your brain. That's where the science lies and saying it's all in your head is kind of poor. Mmm. Well it can be misinterpreted really. Yeah. Really quickly and well they're trying to say is it's from your brain and it's how your brain perceives a threat. That's when all the pain signals arise. Like you could have,uyou could have someone who

Speaker 3: (07:51)
Believes has certain beliefs that increases a threat. Well, certain beliefs that day crisis, that threat and the pain signals generated signify that. And a couple of examples I use on my podcast is, Mmm. Like you hear a lot of stories of people of not knowing like that been mugged and yeah. Adrenaline is pumping and I don't really know that they've actually been stabbed in the back or it's just like, Oh, go on too quickly. They don't realize and yeah, I have no idea. It's not until later on when they realized that's when the pain starts. There's also a could go the other way where someone has some really, really Manet pain

Speaker 3: (08:32)
And okay. The, the level of damage is really, really low. But the brain starts to think, ah, had knee pain in the past. My mom had knee pain and she was limping for three years and she was on crutches for two months. And what about if I can never run again? I've got this marathon in two weeks. What about if I can never run again? And old days messages that you send yourself fades that Brian and the brain starts to assess the level of threat and we'll produce that adequate level of okay. Depending on what, yeah, not necessary what the thread is. Yeah. So to paraphrase it that it's reinforcing. So yes, there's a, there's a small tissue damage, but it's reinforcing the fact when you, when you focus in on it in a negative way with negative stress towards state of being, and sometimes it can be blown out of proportion.

Speaker 3: (09:25)
And I love the analogy with the, you know, you've been stamped in the back, but you don't feel that because you're so adrenalized. So that's, yeah, it's actually, you know, a neuro transmitter actually dampening down the pain responses. So just a question that pops to mind. They're like, I know when I've had a huge, horrendous blusters for example, right? And you'd stop for a break and then you get back out there and the pine isn't signed for the first 10 minutes and mean it, it's a really possess sort of, I don't know if people have had that experience where every time you stop and have a break and then restart, that's when you notice the does a hundred times more. You know, it's more extreme and then after 10 minutes or so it's like the endorphins or something kicks back in and the pain level becomes manageable.

Speaker 3: (10:15)
So what's going on in that sort of a case? Can you, do you know what's happening? Oh, I could try to answer it the best I can. The first, the first concept I talk about in the podcast is a context. What, what sort of context do you give? The scenario and I played a clip on the podcast, this guy called Lorimer Moseley. He has the, is the author of this explained pine book. And he uses the example of he's walking in the Bush and he trips over a twig and scratches his legs. Nothing really happens. He's like, Oh, it's this used to watch your legs all the time. You used to scratch your legs on twigs when you were a kid. This is not a big deal. And it turns out he was bitten by a snake and he was in hospital and his a life threatening scenario.

Speaker 3: (11:05)
Yeah. But he didn't experience any pain until he realized he was bitten by the snake. A couple of years later on that same track and he finds that he clips his foot on something and he's in extreme pain because the Brian things hang on you a, he, he is a guy I knew almost died. Level of threat goes up. And uho he's in extreme levels of pain, but then realized it was only a twig. And so it's what the, the Brian tends to interpret. So going back to your blister question, as you can stop running, the Brian can say, Oh look, I'm running and I'm not dying. I'm okay. There's no real threat. Yes, it hurts, but I'm not limping. I'm not. Um'm still continuing. Like it's not the, the level of threat isn't as bad as like another injury per se. And so the, ah,

Speaker 2: (11:54)
I guess you could say the level of threats starts the day, Christ and then nice and really say it as much of a priority. I wonder if there's some neurotransmitters involved here. You don't like endorphins and stuff that was 200 or something that it actually dampens down the pain response or whether it is your cause. Another, another example I'll give was around, you know, when I ran through New Zealand and we're doing 2,250 and 42 days at two now. Mmm. And at the beginning, the first two weeks it was just getting worse and worse. And like the pain was horrific in my body was falling to pieces and noon system was going up. And watching all the rays. And it got to a point where I just had absolute rock bottom and I didn't think I could continue, but I did continue. When I did continue, I actually, we back up the other side.

Speaker 2: (12:39)
I actually got stronger and stronger and it was almost like the body's way of going, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You're over. You know your apps that you're going to kill us, so I'm going to throw everything at you to stop. And then you didn't stop. So it went like, shit, we've got to get on with it. And we've been dealing with it and you actually got better and stronger. And I've heard that phenomenon from other ultra runners who've done thousands of kilometer races that that's what happens. And actually gets, goes really down to the rock bottom. And then if you don't stop at sea, it comes back up. And you see it even an ultra marathons where you think you're at the end and then you, you keep pushing on somehow slowly, you know, groveling your way forward and then all of a sudden you back, you know, and you don't know why or how or, or, and that's not just a pain thing, but it's more of a,uan energy thing as well.

Speaker 2: (13:31)
But it is bizarre. Had a body like we, when it perceives a threat, sorry, I say an example when I'll stop. I promise I'll stop giving examples, but let's say an example is every, almost every major race that I've done where it's been a big steering horrifying, these threatening rice if you liked, you know, 200 K or something like that. The days ahead of the race, I, I seem to always end up with either an injury, a cold or something happens in the end up not being in good shape. I think it's the body's knowing this battle is coming in. It's trying to stop you from actually standing on the start line, if that makes sense. Do any way you it teams to be a nonevent. It's like the body is faking it. Just try and stop you actually taking on this because it sees it as a threat and knows a threat is coming.

Speaker 2: (14:32)
Yeah. I think when I was talking about the pain science side of things, I tended to stay, I guess I didn't cover the endorphin side, like in the heat of the moment type of pain because that's definitely a science that is proven and shown that if you have these endorphins they can get you through these like a really intense moments. Insurance athletes. I just have another mindset that is far beyond what anyone else can experience. But it's funny that you have that story because if it's a really long endurance rice and you're doing month's wakes, so like days and days of these intense exercise, your body's going to think, not ready for this. Let's start. Yeah. Giving out signals for the body to slow down because this is a threat, right? As soon as you go through that dip and you sort of see the other side has gone through its shock and it's almost like you're convincing it, yeah, we can do this.

Speaker 2: (15:36)
Let's, let's go do this. Then there's definitely these peaks and troughs in those troughs usually come at like the halfway point where you lock audits, don't know if I can do this, but then when your mind is so strong, yeah, you're like, no, I don't care how bad we're feeling. We're doing this. The body's like, okay, let's do it. And so, Mmm. Stop prioritize other things rather than pain and say, okay, let's do what we can to get through this. Yes, I really believe that. So I mean, this is transgressing from just purely a painting, but also, you know, and that whole mindset thing and when you go in it, you know, same with the story with my mom. When you go all in and when you have an open mind to the possibilities of therapies outside of what you know, you were told as possible.

Speaker 2: (16:22)
And this is the issue that I have with doctors taking away people's hope or giving people terminal Tim prognosis. You know, you've got terminal cancer and you're going to die in three months. Well, you've just bloody he and did before by sick late because you, you, you've seen that seed in the, in the brain in and that becomes a reality. You're like, it's a self fulfilling prophecy often. And there've been examples of this where people, you know, subsequently died within the time frame they've done the autopsy and there's nice no cancer misdiagnosis off that or something. And people go, well, why did they die in that timeframe? Because you've set your mind onto something and whatever you believe. And so one of the things that, with this book is that I want people to understand that either even when the doctors is telling you there is no way you have to, if you want to chance it, success, you have to go all in and ignore the naysayers completely.

Speaker 2: (17:23)
Whether they have a scientific point or not, you know whether they're actually correct or not. If you want a chance at beating the odds, then you have to go in with an attitude of not, not listening to that. Absolutely rejecting that I'm doing it my way and this is why we going because only thing do you have a tiny chance of actually making it. That's not the same. You will make it but then is to say that you have a chance because your mind is at least going on that road and you'll see things, you will learn things, you will find things that you wouldn't otherwise find. And one of the problems that I've, you know, cause I work now with a lot of people with brain injuries of nature or Alzheimer's or things that it's icing pretty major going nicely in. The problem they have with a lot of people is they don't in to what I'm saying 100% and they don't have an open mind and they have that.

Speaker 2: (18:16)
I'll try it attitude and then try it. Attitude is never ever going to get you there. Not with something as major as what, you know, when you're dealing with a mess of running a vein or a mess of healthy, you have to be, I'm going all in and my mind is open and I'm taking all this information and I'm going to price this as that and I'm going to actually be proactive. And if you go on, you know with a halfhearted attitude towards it, you don't have a show, you know, because we are talking about beliefs as well, like whatever you believe is what the brain is going to perceive. And so if you go in half-heartedly, that's not shifting your belief at all. It's I'll still believe my old thing. Yes, this one a try. It's not shifting any of that belief and you won't be successful.

Speaker 2: (19:07)
And I, and I've seen this time and the time of the game with the people and I can almost predict who are the ones that are going to have at least some level of success because they're all then that, you know, if you tell me to jump and put a Karen up on eyes, I'll do it because they are all in on the process in. And it's not about even what therapies are you doing or what are you, what are you achieving? It's the mindset first, go in with an approach into any challenge that you're facing in pain. And the hard thing with pain is that it's so intense, you know, and it's so immediate. I've been in situations, you know, I've had incredible create a big bad pain with a few of the health issues that I've dealt with. Without going into the details where I was, you know, trying to mobilize all my mental power to control the pain and was still unable to, you know, I was still unable head to get morphine shot or whatever for it to go.

Speaker 2: (20:06)
But the mass boy to get in there, like when you've got an acute pain happening and you're trying to breathe through it and you're trying to, you know, you see the ladies and giving birth and they're told to just breathe and relax and it sounds so ridiculous. But the more you fight it worse it actually is. And that's what they're trying to portray. But it isn't as easy as just, Oh well, you know, I'll take myself off to a happy place and it'll go away. I wish it was that easy, but it isn't quite that easy with intense, really intense finds at least. So what else can you tell us about the pain? You said fear plays a part, you previous experience plays apart. The context that you associate around this pain by a major Norman most Mosely or Mosely. Was it hard to say? I know I saw his Ted talk on that and actually I've seen it to my brother who was dealing with some back injury issues. And I think that was, that was really gold, you know? Yeah. And you thought that the snake was like, so it is already good. Thing. Okay. So anything else you want to add onto the painful session?

Speaker 3: (21:24)
Yes. If we're talking about beliefs and if someone does have a running injury, I ask people to have a, a good self reflection of what beliefs you have held onto. Because I say a lot of injured runners and especially those ones who have multiple running injuries or really chronic running injury, they have certain beliefs. They'll say, ah my health professional in the past has said that I have one leg longer than the other and my glutes on the left side doesn't fire right. And my hips go out of line. If I run 10 Ks and I just need to readjust that and stop firing up my glutes again, I don't know how, I don't know how to activate my glutes, but they're just not working right now. And my fate collapse and all this sort of stuff. And it's this extremely disempowering belief that they have.

Speaker 3: (22:19)
And how are they meant to thrive if they keep fading that Brian with these beliefs? As soon as I go for run, the Brian's going to be like, but why you have a one leg longer than the other? And those messages will stop fading the body and they will start arising as like I said, it's really, really disempowering. And if you play yourself victim to those beliefs, you just going to continuously have these injuries and it's not until you shift your focus and all those things I mentioned these leg length discrepancies and hips out align, there's no, you like science around that. If you have a one centimeter leg length discrepancy, it's not going to affect you by mechanics or what's firing or anything. There is science. Once you get beyond 20 mil leg length discrepancy, that's when it comes Flowly start to yeah, change of biomechanics. But it's extremely rare that someone has that level of discrepancy. It's like usually a couple of mail here and there. And so really what those beliefs, you give yourself a, has some self reflection and say if, what if the beliefs you have, if they really, really serving you or if they're hitting in the other direction.

Speaker 2: (23:30)
They definitely are. And then I kind of agree with you more and things like, you know, I'm an aesthetic need for our current run. You know, the amount of times that I've heard that. And it's like, do you want to seek an ominous meadow? I know lots of other rest medics who run and we, you know, like as a child with severe asthmatics, when you, when you, when you program that, that means I cannot do this. That's when you're going to limit yourself as into your potential. And on the other, the other extreme, you know, I've seen people with crazy injuries doing crazy things like, you know there's one league running for Steve's belly or a blind person running across the Sahara and Morocco or a person with model's crisis going across the desert on crutches cause they couldn't run anymore. You know, like it is up to you as to what you believe and how you think that they can be dealt with.

Speaker 2: (24:21)
And you know, one of the, the areas of study that I'm that we do an air company called epigenetic testing and it looks at the different phenotypes and health types of people. And there are certain people and within the, you know, the, the differences of human con isn't like a, there's six different health types and these are a broad overview and there are a couple that have a heightened sensitivity to neuro pain and sensitivity to the environments and seminars. So these are what they call people who are st sores, which are usually very a lot of the development we know are an embryo went into the nervous system development. So they're very brain and nervous system focused and they're very sensitive to the environment into they feel pain more intensely. They are reactive more than they are environment.

Speaker 2: (25:19)
They usually very slim eco, more body types. And they've usually very much in the O'Brien, very cognitive, like very big thinkers. And, and they have a tendency more to be, to feel the pain than say someone who is like an activator, which is another of the types in there. The short, muscular body types, very good coordination, very athletic, and they are dominant hormone is adrenaline in the adrenal and means that they can withstand more pain because they have more adrenaline going through the system. Now it has other disadvantages by having so much adrenaline. But they don't, they're not as sensitive to the pain. Well, they don't experiences it as intensely in someone over have a sense or makeup who's you know, more a similar but hard to explain but limit the sensory overload very quickly. So I think there's some gene genetic reasons why people, some people feel it more than other people as well.

Speaker 2: (26:24)
And again, this comes down to the whole chemical makeup and the dominant hormones and the dominant neurotransmitters that we have running through our bodies to how much we will experience pain and other, other areas as well. So it really, really fascinating talk next time. Yeah, absolutely. Another thing on the fee on the injury side, you know, like again, working with someone who has a back injury and they definitely have a mechanical back injury lessons, couple of disks that are, that are than a bulging and so on. But I'm convinced that the pain is not only from the back injury because I've had that for years that it's suddenly intensified. And I think there's a lot to do with other health issues going on and that's exacerbating it. Things like the gut health is affecting the, the pain levels in the body and the inflammation in the body.

Speaker 2: (27:22)
That put on weight a little bit around the middle, which is pulling me back in a different way. They mop and you probably dehydrated and not doing enough a aerobic exercise. So then stagnant in the periphery. Circulation is stagnant. What are these things contribute to the back pain? And so you can't just go and take an antiinflammatory and think you know, you'll be right or even have surgery and think you'll be alright because you're not addressing the system. And he can eat. We can have a tissue related mechanical reason that you have an injury, but it's not the only part of the equation that you need to be addressing. I mean, I've got four disks that are completely, but there's nothing in between my destiny. I don't have any pain because, but I did, but I spent a lot of time working on, on things like hydration, my immune system, my gut health my core strength in all of these aspects to it and not focusing just on I've got to go and get surgery to fuse the back, which was what was recommended. And I now don't have any touch word time, which I used to have on an absolute, you know, debilitating

Speaker 3: (28:41)
Navel. I'll quickly add, like when we're talking about mechanical pine and a law of back in discs and things like that we need to be really careful with how we explain these to patients and how people interpret their scan findings. And there's, if you're beyond 40 years old and into the 50 sixties, there's going to be date generation, there's going to be disclosures, there's going to be all these findings. Which can lay like which can be asymptomatic. And if you have, if you scan a hundred healthy paper with no pain whatsoever, you scan their backs up to, well, depending on the age, let's say if they're about 50 up to 80% of them are going to have some disc bulges. They're going to have some degeneration, they're going to show some findings and they're all healthy. They're showing no pain. So with back pain comes in and they're like, I want to get a scan and I scan that show these disc bulges.

Speaker 3: (29:33)
Okay, is this related to their pain? Who knows because they're you know, you've got all these studies of all these healthy people that have these findings. How can we correlate the two? There are very, very low percentage people that will have like a really significant disc protrusion that's obstructing one of the nerves or impinging one of the nerves, which usually causes like weakness and like permanent numbness down the leg. That's a very serious condition. But when I have someone come into my clinic and they've had years of back pain, they like, well, could all this look at all these scans. I like shelve these results into my face. And they're like, look, look at this level, this level, this level. And you have to really peg them back a little bit and show them, okay. You need to give them a little bit of reassurance as well because they are panicking and it doesn't really serve them with their rehabilitation. So you need to be really careful with how you deal with these sort of clients.

Speaker 2: (30:26)
Yes. And, and then actually, you know, doing proactive things before you grow up to surgery. You know, like, let's try strengthening the core. Let's try sorting your gut bacteria out. Let's try re reducing the inflammation load in your body through other means. You know, cutting out the bad stuff and doing more, more aerobic exercise and, and doing these things in more sleep. And you know, all of these basic things, they, a lot of people neglect because they, they want the more complicated answer they want. The more the surgery, the pill though, whatever that might, it's going to make it this magically go away and see the taking a systems approach and it, everything that we don't, we always looking at the whole system as best as we can with our knowledge. You know, it's understanding what could be possibly contributing it before we go and get code under the knife, which is addressed at thing for anybody to do.

Speaker 2: (31:18)
So like it's worth my opinion trying everything else before we try that route, you know. And you know, if I hadn't done what I'd done, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be speaking from experience, but yeah, it was either get four discs fuse, which would be a huge, I'd never be as mobile again or I'd probably never be able to do a lot of things if I'd done it. And now just spending a huge amount of time in the core. There's a lot of exercise and work that goes into keeping my core and my, you know, my back and all that happen or these areas strong but on pain-free. And I know this is only one anecdotally example of this, but it's not an isolated case and same. Sure. But, okay. So now let's, let's leave the pain conversation now. Read one of your blogs on read East. Can you explain that and what the heck you mean by by that?

Speaker 3: (32:18)
Yeah. Relative energy deficiency in sport is a recognized condition. It used to be the female triad which I'll explain in a second, but now it's applied to males also cause they say this and it's a condition where you have like your body. The best I can explain it is like your body has a certain amount of energy that it can dissipate when you exercise. And if you, you need to replace that energy with things like nutrition, like proper diet. If you really exceed the app, put your energy output and your input doesn't make that level. Your body is going to stop producing, I guess you could call it output energy by extracting minerals from your muscles, from your bones and just try, they have to get the energy from some way. It can't be just created out of thin air.

Speaker 3: (33:15)
And so if you're starting to do more and more work, if you're starting to really push yourself and get into ultras and all that stuff and you're not feeding yourself the right energy, then you're going to get into this energy deficit. And so the energy deficit, if it's over a longer period of time it can take enough minerals out of the bone and stop causing things like stress fractures. It can redirect the energy from say your internal organs and you can start having gut issues and all they sort of things. And it can just be a really downward spiral into a lot of injuries, a lot of stress, a lot of chronic issues and it can get really, really dangerous and can start to lay to a lot of real health complications. And so it used to be very common in females who were in adolescents who were very like had a lot of body image issues and was like under a lot of pressure to perform as well.

Speaker 3: (34:20)
And so they would really work hard but also not feed themselves enough because they wanted to have a better image of themselves. And if they were told that any to lose a few kilos or whatever have you. So they're working hard on the track and they're also not feeding their body and they would start having like an altered menstrual cycle or because their body is redirecting preferences away from the internal organs and they started having gut issues because we're redirecting that we need to prioritize the, the energy output like the running and the body's always going to give your energy to the the physical activity that you're giving yourself. Because if you think evolutionary, you need to run away from a predator. That is the highest priority that the body's going to give is the physical output. And so then the internal guts and the, the minerals from all the other stuff that is gathering all those resources and putting it into that energy output and can lead to really, really serious consequences over training syndrome or adrenal adrenal burnout would also play into this. So I'm full of today

Speaker 2: (35:38)
As a young girl was a gymnast. And of course we would tell we had to lose weight all the time cause we had to be tiny, tiny, tiny and I was way too heavy. And that lead to a whole lot of complications. And that's very common thing with young pubescent girls, especially when they, you know, chatting the body shapes changing as well. So they hope, you know, self-image just changing. And then you're told you're fat all the time. It's brought in taught senior girls to gymnastics or something. I can say old ballet unless they're really, really tiny and don't have an issue with us. And then looking at even things like I'm studying DNA at the moment in looking at the hormone cascade and which which costs you, your body type. So if you're an anger dominant female, a female who produces quickly from your progesterone into testosterone, but very slowly into estrogens, then you're very likely, if you overtrain you, you're very likely to lose your mutual stock cycle, which is a very big red flag.

Speaker 2: (36:38)
If anybody is experiencing that. It's not something to go, well let's describe it on you have a period every month. No, this is a serious health events. You need to be looking at why that's happening. So if you yeah, if you and your dominant and you, you know, usually you have this small embrace and you're very likely to lose your, your cycle very quickly so you can go into over-training quite quickly. And if your Easter dominant, then you can, it depends on which way you cross this in the estrogens and that's another conversation. But what, what is really important at known here is that you are running the rest when you over train, you're not actually improving when you're actually training to the optimum levels. So when you overtrain all that hardware that you're putting into it is then being wasted because you're not recovering and not giving it the nutrients.

Speaker 2: (37:34)
And when, like you said, when you are under stress and your body will prioritize the physical energy because of the fight or flight syndrome. So you then you're producing your cortisol and your adrenaline constantly, which a lot of us in dealing with, not on the athletes but just with the lifestyle that we have constant demands from computers and emails and bosses and sewn bows. So we are in this constant cycle fodder flight and that takes energy away from your immune system, takes energy away from, excuse me, mum's ringing energy away from your immune system, from your ability to fight diseases and infections, your hormonal cycle, everything, your digestive processes, your recovery processes are all in deficit. And this is why optimizing your nutrition on top of, of your training is really important in prioritizing the right amount of recovery. And this is very difficult territory for marathoners, especially if you had the mentality, I'm tough, I can handle it, I can just push her and push her and push Sheree.

Speaker 3: (38:42)
And that can be really problematic, you know because it's a, it's a problem that I've dealt with definitely. Because you, you on the one side you want to be tough

Speaker 2: (38:53)
And push through and you can, and that has great benefits.

Speaker 3: (38:57)
But on the other side, you're actually doing yourself health, the service and you can be fit but unhealthy. Which is a really important point. You might also be interested, I've got a an a podcast episode on this interwoven relationship between sleep and stress and recovery. And I do mention this cortisol that gets released through the body and the importance of that and it's this really interwoven relationship that all those concepts have and the impact it has on your running and your injury risk and performance. It's, it's a really interesting concept that not a lot of people would take into consideration. Like you were saying, people just care about Apple, they just care about running. If I run faster, if I run further, if I do it more frequently, that's how I'm going to get stronger. But it's not really the case. You get stronger, faster when you actually go and sleep better and eat properly. Good. Yeah. To try and hydrogenate a Islay pod. I've been told that a couple of times and it rings for absolutely. So yeah, we have a like a thing like a check list that we get our athletes to do. And you can do this with your HIV apps as well. They, they measure your heart rate variability. But then you can see if you're actually going in.

Speaker 2: (40:14)
So over training, you know, if you're just writing on a scan of one to 10, your hydration is today. Your sleep, your stress levels, your injury levels, your mood, all of these things will give you an indication are you getting in the wrong direction? If you're coming back with low scores and you've got a big training day to day, it might be what do I do? You not to do their training and then leave a love responsibility and not feeling guilty and understanding your body is really something that you have to learn and grow with over time. Or if you've got a great coach, you can say, your numbers aren't looking good on your HIV or whatever you need to call back today. I want you to have a day off. And that's scary for athletes. You know when you're training for some great huge beat and you've got to have a day off, you don't want to go, ah, it's all going to go to custard, but I can tell you if you can, if you start to this and then read your body better, you have a bit of performance on lists on this training.

Speaker 2: (41:07)
Then if you're pushing it to the absolute Instagram and you see this like with athletes in the last three weeks, I haven't done enough training throughout the program and then the last three weeks they're trying to cram in what they didn't do because Oh my God, the rice is around the corner

Speaker 3: (41:21)
And that's the worst thing you can do. Yeah, not going to recover enough to be, I want to run. I'm glad you're talking about this because this is the idea of the podcast. It's called the run smarter podcast because you could train hard, but you actually need to base Mott, and I say this all the time, like Ron says, don't make the best decisions. They really, really don't. And they come into my clinic and they're injured and they tell me about their story. And you feel like you just want to slap people ahead with your hand because they're just talking through their story and you're like, why are you making these decisions? Like why? It just seems that it's Ava, just their drive, their personality and they dislike their perfectionist and I want to perform and they just have to do it. Sometimes it's a bit of an addiction, but sometimes it's this lack of knowledge and they just don't understand the consequences certain things can have and the importance of sleep and recovery and having rest days and having the slow recovery days and, yeah. So it's all about training smarter and being a smarter runoff that's going to lead you to be a better runner.

Speaker 2: (42:21)
Yup. And then that then is, and this is just runners, but for everybody in learning and understanding and having that maturity and you know, having, having done everything wrong in the early years of my career or even in 11 years of my Korea. But now that I'm talking about, I mean, not going back to the release syndrome or would he be Kona? I'm even doing the rice in the Himalaya's. It's 222 K rice and I came back the next week and three, three teeth fell out, you know. See something doesn't it? That the minerals in your body, it just getting smashed the hell XY even in loose to lose teeth means sure. I shit, that's crazy. Yeah. it was pretty extreme. Three tastes and awakens, it speaks of wait for failure. A lot of implants. I mean this is a, you know, I like, I have the speed, an absolute fortune of my mouth as a mortgage in my mouth in a lot of that is because I just over trying to overtrain for years and lost TAFE. Yeah. So and you can imagine what that's doing to your bones and all the other things you cycle and everything else. So sometimes being, being tough and having a strong drive and having a willpower in it and having a mainstream toughness and all that is right. But not at the expense of your health. And you have to sort of have a little bit of experience and wisdom and listen to these sorts of things to try to understand when am I just being an idiot and when am I, you know, really being sensible.

Speaker 3: (43:54)
I think it's like, well, when you talk about that, like how do I know if I'm being sensible? Take her like a birds eye view of your performance in your training over the last six months, 12 months, couple of years. Like have you been battling injuries constantly? Have you been increasing your performance? Have you been increasing your running times? Have you do you feel like you can jump out of bed? Do you feel like you can like stop the day? It's really like, I don't know if it's just a running thing. I think it's like a human thing. We really struggle to like get a mental image of what it's been like the last 12 months. We see in this like little one though and say like I need to perform, I need to get better and to get better and you need to really, really take a step back to analyze all of that thing.

Speaker 3: (44:41)
Like, you know, I know for myself, I haven't really, like I say, if I stopped performing now, I'm going to in one year's time I'm going to be at this level from a two years time. I'm going to be at that level and you can just say it happening. But in the last three years I've got no idea that, so it's taking a, a good bird's eye view of how you're tracking. It could really be a good helpful tool to, like you were talking about saying am I making smarter decisions? Am I you know, taking the goals I want to NMR making the right decisions.

Speaker 2: (45:12)
And, and that's so true. And you know, we are, we are also individuals and this hap spec to the epigenetic stuff, like not everybody's going to respond the same to each training regime like that. We can have a, an athlete that we're training and two of them, they've got the same dog, they've got the same, maybe the same age, the same, seeks the same goals and they'll get completely different results because one has different set of genes and the other one in understanding that they will, and being able to personalize it to the genes. Well that's, you know, just next level information that we can add into the conversation and change the way the times of the day that you do it and the foods that you are eating and all of that sort of information. So it's exciting times that we're living in because we never had insights into this sort of nation area.

Speaker 2: (46:00)
So now, you know, you see people making new records in, in things being broken all the time and even the average person getting much more good results. But I think from this whole conversation and we'll wrap up now, Brodie you know, you've given people a lot of food for thought, a lot of food for thought about the brain, the limitations in your, you know, are you limiting yourself with your pain, the way you're experiencing it, with the way you're experiencing your belief systems and how it's influencing your injuries. Also the release, the what does it, the energy and relative energy deficit and overtraining and just wisdom. Like, you know, for a young guy you've got a great mature outlook and obviously your education, your ongoing education has enabled that. So once again, where can people find you, your podcasts, your links, how can they reach out to you if they need help?

Speaker 3: (47:00)
Okay. So on Instagram it's bertie.shop is my handle. I've got a Facebook group called become a smarter runner and it kind of backs off like links in with the podcast. If you want to follow the podcast, it's called the run smarter podcast and it's available on all the platforms, wherever you listen to your podcasts. My website is breakthrough running.physio and that has my blogs

Speaker 2: (47:30)
And as well as like my Facebook groups and stuff like that, I'll just post my blogs, I post to evidence and couple little tips, couple of exercises here and there. So I think that's all the links will penalize links in the show notes. Alrighty. So thank you very much for your time today and your expertise and your insights and it just makes me smile because you know, a lot of the stuff I can actually relate to, obviously with my crazy anecdotes, but also it reinforces the learning that I have is that you have another, another, another means in another way of bringing it across. So really, really appreciate your time today and look forward to doing some stuff with you in the future. You're very welcome. It was a lot of fun. Good luck for the next two weeks of just grinding out this book. Thanks night.

Speaker 1: (48:16)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. We showed her write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at Lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Catharine Arnston is the founder and CEO of a company called Energybits which produces some of the world's best Spirulina and Chlorella products. Catharine has a 30-year career as an international Attache for the Canadian and British Governments, publisher of an international magazine and founder of three startups. But in 2009 when her younger sister was diagnosed with breast cancer and advised by her oncologist to change her diet to an alkaline one because it would help her heal, Catharine put her career on hold to help her sister. In the process, she discovered algae, the most alkaline, nutrient-dense plant in the world that no one seemed to know about. Catharine knew algage would be a game-changer for the world if she could just help people understand it and so she founded her company Energybits. Algae s a multi-billion dollar crop in Asia where it has been used for decades. Algae is endorsed by NASA and the UN as the most nutritionally dense food in the world. There are over 100,000 studies documenting its benefits, some of which include increased energy, improved focus, strengthened immune system, reduced inflammation, removal of toxins, enhanced longevity, improved sports performance, removal of hunger and revitalized skin and hair health. All this from a 4 billion-year-old, single-cell organism that has forty vitamins and minerals, the highest concentration f prten n the world, ne calres and one ingredient. The only thing wrong with algae is that it is virtually unknown outside of Asia. This podcast interview is set to help change that in our corner of the world By the end of this interview you will be rushing out to get yours. Workout Fuel
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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of The Podcast Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by www.LisaTamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:13)
If your brain is not functioning at its best, and check out what the team at www.veilight.com do now, be like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related decline issues and also for my mum's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at www.veilight.com. That's V I E L I G H T .com and use the code Tamati at checkout to get 10% off any of their devices. Pushing The limits this week. I have a wonderful guest, uh, who you're about to hear from Catherine Ernston of www.Energybits.com. Now, Catherine is the CEO and founder of a company that deals with spirulina and chlorella.

Speaker 2: (01:18)
Doesn't sound very interesting, but I can assure you this interview will have your mind blown as to how beneficial spirulina and chlorella are for your health. Um, and we will do a really deep dive. There's um, did you know that spirulina has 64% protein, that it has over 40 vitamins and minerals, that it is backed by the United Nations and by NASA they use it for astronauts in outer space. It is an eco-friendly crop. It's got over 100,000 studies done on it, showing the different benefits of these, uh, blue green algae. Um, and the founder, Katherine Amston, got into this through her sister having breast cancer. And through that she decided she wanted to help her sister and started to look at the plant based diet. She started to look at what alkalizing diets were all about and she stumbled across Algie and found out just how powerful it is.

Speaker 2: (02:21)
And so for the past decade, Katherine has been on a mission to let them world know just how important the nutrients I'm involved with a spirulina and chlorella. So it's a really, really interesting conversation. Make sure you stay to the end. Right. I just want to remind you too, I have my book, we'll link this coming out and just a couple of weeks time from the time of this podcast. It's the story of bringing my mum back after a major aneurism and left her with massive brain damage and hardly any higher function left. And we were told that she would never do anything again and that she wouldn't be with us long at stage. My mum had no ability to speak to communicate. She had no memory. She had no ability to control any bodily function, so the lights were on and no one was home. And this is a book about the desperate search for answers and looking outside the box and everything, the protocols, the therapies, the doctors, the research that I did, uh, and the work that I've done with her over the past four years to now have it back to full health again.

Speaker 2: (03:25)
So it's really heartwarming and amazing book. I've spent two years in writing this book and I really hope it's going to help thousands and thousands, if not millions of people. If I had my way, there's so many people suffering out there from brain injuries who need to know. Um, and this is not just for strokes or aneurysms, but across the board, all different types of brain dysfunction, whether it be Alzheimer's, dementia, strokes, uh, concussions, uh, aneurisms, all of these things. Um, this is a real good book if you facing any of those things, but also for anyone who wants to know about mindset and mental toughness and overcoming massive challenges when the odds are stacked against you, um, and who hasn't faced situations like that. If you're a human, you sort of get check these things at life. So I'd really love you to go over and check that book out.

Speaker 2: (04:15)
It's on my website now available for preorder at www.lisatamati.com hit the shop button and that will take you through to my shop with my books and my jewelry collection. So make sure you check that out. If you do that now you would also get access to mindset you, which is my online mental toughness and emotional resilience course, uh, that's valued at $275. You'll get that for free if you order the book before it launches on the 11th of March, but only up until then. Okay. So make sure you go and do that now. Um, and I really appreciate that right guys over to Catherine Amston

Speaker 3: (04:53)
well, hi everybody. Welcome to the show. Once again, it's wonderful to have your loyalty back with us for another exciting episode of pushing the limits. Today, I have the amazing Kathryn Anson with me. How are you doing Catherine? I am a well and wildly excited for being here. Now, Katherine has been traveling for the last couple of weeks, then conferences, so and so have I. So we're both sitting here very tired but very passionate about what we do. So Catherine is in Canada, sorry. She is a Canadian but she's living in Boston. Um, and she is the founder and CEO of a company called ENERGYbits, uh, which, uh, is a company that deals with spirulina and chlorella. So we'll start there. Katherine, can you tell us a little bit of your background and why you ended up down the spirulina and chlorella? I know algae who knew algae could become the love of my life?

Speaker 3: (05:51)
Uh, well I, you know, I started with a traditional career. I have an MBA, was doing international business, blah, blah, blah. And then my younger sister in Canada in Toronto, uh, developed breast cancer. And fortunately her oncologist advised her to change her diet to an alkaline one because they said it would help her with her healing process. She was going to do the chemo, but they didn't tell her what it was or why it worked. So she called me. Cause of course I love my sister, but also I'm just a really good researcher. I probably should have been a scientist. I said I have no idea what I'll go on a diet is, but you know, I know how to get on the internet and we'll figure this out. And it turned out to be mostly a plant based diet because of the phytonutrients and mostly the chlorophyll that helped build your immune system.

Speaker 3: (06:34)
And so when you're doing chemo, having a strong immune system is critical. I mean it's important at anytime, but certainly when you're doing chemo. So she did change her diet. She did heal from her, uh, breast cancer and 10 years later she's still cancer-free. And in the process of helping her with her research, I read about 10 books on plant based nutrition. Now this is 10 years ago, nobody was talking about plant based nutrition then as they are now, it's mainstream now. And I was like this outlier and I said, I was crazy, blah blah blah. But I just saw the science. I said, no, this is, this is important stuff. Somebody should tell the rest of the world that, well I have no nutrition background, but I saw what it did for my sister. I know I can help other people. I'm going to give it a shot.

Speaker 3: (07:16)
I have no idea how I'm going to do it, what kind of education I'm going to get. But I gave up my 25 year corporate career for a year for a health coaching certificate. But you know, gave me a little bit of science. Um, after I graduated, I taught nutrition for a year at corporations and hospitals anywhere who would let me in, cause I put a curriculum together and to try to teach people how to, you know, to incorporate more greens into their diet. And I learned two important lessons from that. One is that everybody knows they do need to eat more greens and to most people either don't like them or it's too much work or their kids or their husbands won't eat them. So they're, they're stuck. So I thought, okay, if I'm going to help people get healthier, prevent all these chronic illnesses or recover from them, I've got to find something that's green, fast, easy, doesn't require any work.

Speaker 3: (08:11)
And back to the internet. I went and I started digging around trying different things and I found the algae. Now I found it for my sister originally but hadn't really dug deep into it. So I dug deep and I was like, Alison wanted landfall in the rabbit hole because I found out that algae is the most nutrient dense fit in the world. It's the most alkaline fluid in the world. It's the most studied food in the world. There are 100,000 studies documenting the various athletics, um, physical, mental, any aspect of algae. It pulls out toxins, you name it, but there's 100,000 studies. And the problem is this knowledge hasn't gotten out of the scientific community and into the consumer world, but it has an Asia where it's a multibillion dollar industry and they've been using it for 50 years. And you know, in Japan, they don't take supplements.

Speaker 3: (09:03)
They just take chlorella, algae every day. And I point out to people that in Japan they have some of the best longevity, the lowest cancer rates, the best skin and hair. And I think a lot, you know, some of it is I attribute to the algae. So when I started seeing how powerful algae was and how easy it was to take, cause you could just swallow it and you're done. Um, and you know, it's endorsed by the United nations as the answer to world hunger is adores by nationals, the most nutrient dense food in the world. And they feed as the astronauts. I thought, okay, that's it. I'm spending the rest of my life to help people understand algae because I think it's the last chance we have to get nutrients into our bodies at the same time. By the way, we're also helping the environment because it's ecofriendly sustainable and we can talk about all that as well. So it's been a very exciting, challenging ride because everyone in my family and my friends thought I was off my rocker, but, um, but I, and I was on a show called shark tank. I don't know if you're familiar. Yeah. And, um, they made fun of me of course. And they said, we don't think you're in love with being an entrepreneur. You're just in love with algae. And I said, well, you're right. I am in love with algae and if you knew as much as I did about algae, you wouldn't love it.

Speaker 3: (10:15)
Oh man. There I am. 10 years later, uh, I feel algae is my, my, uh, super child that I'm, I'm helping to coax into the world. Uh, and it's about to be discovered in a big way. In fact, um, here in America there's a, um, uh, fast, uh, food. It's healthy food. It's called sweet greens, very, very healthy chain. They've got a hundred, a hundred and some stores. And just today they announced that their, um, their, their biggest effort this year is they're going to create a kelp salad bowl. Kelp is, they said, wow. You know, 2020 is the year of Kelp. And of course, kelp is part of the algae story. It's all part of the same family. So it's like, okay, we're getting closer. I have to stop you there because you need five minutes. You've just given us a condensed version of 10 years and there's a number of areas we can go down the list.

Speaker 3: (11:09)
So, uh, we talking, so algae, so the blue green algae, we're talking spirulina in chlorella and in particular, right? We talking spirulina being one of the most perfect foods on the planet, the most nutrient dense. Is that correct? Yes. So, um, I'll step back a little bit cause it really helps me, it took me a while to figure this out. So I'm eager to share the simplicity of it. It's like anything, once you know how to do something, it's easy. But until then it's a big mystery, right? So algae is just another food group. You know, we have fruits and we have vegetables. algae is a its own food group and it subdivides into two subgroups. So let's take fruits for example. Um, you might have bananas and apples as two subgroups. Well, within algae you have, um, seaweed or kelp and micro algae.

Speaker 3: (12:02)
And then taking the analogy of the fruits with apples, there's different types of apples. There's granny Smith apples, there's delicious apples. Well within the micro algae category, there are two main types. There's blue green and green, and one blue green algae is spirulina and one green algae is chlorella. Now these two are really the only two that are harvested as a crop. So it's number one to point out that algae, spirulina and chlorella are not a supplement. They are a food crop. And also equally important is they are not grown in the ocean. They are grown and cultivated in fresh water. It's called a hydroponic. A lot of lot of farmers grow hydroponic salad and tomatoes. algae is the same way. It's just grown in fresh water. Now I mentioned this because there are thousands and thousands and thousands of other strains of blue, green and green algae all growing in oceans, lakes, swamps, warming pools, your aquarium.

Speaker 3: (13:08)
And those are all poisonous and toxic. So if anyone is listening to this and they, and they go online and they read about toxic blue green algae, yes. That if it came from the ocean, not spirulina or chlorella, they are not toxic. And the reason why is cause algae will absorb whatever's in the water. So if it's in a contaminated water supply, of course it's going to be toxic. And I spent, I've spent a lot of years making sure that because we sell our products from doctors and functional medicine and wellness clinics, so they needed to be sure ours was pure and clean. So we do third-party lab tests here in the United States by an FDA approved lab. We even test for neurotoxins. Well, I think I'm the only company, algae company in the world that proves that there are no neurotoxins that are algae.

Speaker 3: (13:58)
So I just mentioned this because people will go to the internet and they'll start Googling algae and they'll find some information about toxins and then there'll be panicked. And I want to assure you there is no, there are no toxins. Certainly not an R spirulina or chlorella because we grow them very carefully and monitor them and test them, but they're grown in fresh water. It's a crop, not a supplement. Gotcha. And now if we go into the breakdown of, of the spirulina in the, um, chlorella or as far as the, the, it's, it's packed with protein. It's packed with um, pretty much everything to sustain. When I, when I started looking into it, I'm going, well we actually, we don't need to eat anymore. We can just say spirulina. That's true. She didn't live forever on spirit and although the only nutrient it does not have is vitamin C, which is really interesting.

Speaker 3: (14:55)
But other than that, or not much vitamin D, but other than that, in fact I'm the one and I should put a press release about it. I would about this. I know, I noticed, I saw it years ago, I saw a chart that identified all the nutrients in mother's breast milk, especially all the amino acids. Yes. Gosh, that looks awfully familiar. And sure enough, I checked our amino acid profile in spirulina. Exactly the same aminos. Exactly the same portions. So, and that helped explain to me why in Japan if babies are born and they cannot digest mother's breast milk, the only thing that keeps them alive is spirulina and water in it. Now I understand it's because the nutrient profile is very similar to two mother's breast milk. But of course, everyone knows mother's breast milk is the perfect food after the age of two, it's a little tough to get right.

Speaker 3: (15:44)
And actually I was just, I've just been reading a study on um, uh, brace, smoke and its anticancer properties with the, uh, what is it? The LBM and the, the, Oh, there's the name of it. One of the, and I wonder if part of it is cause it say well, you know. Yeah. Um, so, uh, and we can talk to, I would like to explain to your listeners the difference between the two allergies because they, they do completely different things in your body. But just while you're talking about the cancer thing, um, as I mentioned, spirulina is a blue green algae and chlorella is a green algae. And the rate, the reason why they're called that is because spirulina has two pigments in it. The one that everybody knows is chlorophyll, which is a green pigment and that, and chlorella only has the green, but spirulina has another pigment in it that's blue and it's called phycocyanin.

Speaker 3: (16:34)
Now, the interesting, and we won't dwell too much on this, but the interesting thing about phycocyanin as it relates to cancer, is that it has what's called anti-angiogenesis properties. I know that's a mouthful, but basically what it means is that when there are cancers or tumors, they find a way to literally hijack the blood vessels to reroute them to feed the cancer or the tumor. And there are different nutrients that will stop that process. Cause that process where they hijack the blood vessels is called angiogenesis. And so something that's anti angiogenesis stops that process. And this pigment called phycocyanin has been proven to be able to do that. Well, if you have a blood cancer, obviously it's not going to help because there's no cancer or tumor. Everything else, it's, it's very powerful. So, um, but aside from that, spirulina is generally known as an energizing algae, um, and it has the highest concentration of protein as you mentioned in the world.

Speaker 3: (17:39)
Now, this is why in 1974 the United nations had a global conference on spirulina and, and endorsed it and it, and still does as the answer to world hunger because it has three times the amount of protein in it that animal protein. And of course it's a crop that you can grow. So it still is the answer to world hunger. And if I can get my company growing and we get to be as big as I want it to be like, believe me, that will be one of the things that I try to help accomplish in my lifetime is to teach other people in other lands to grow this, to feed their, you know, their countries and yeah, people. But so, so the reason why spirulina is so energizing, number one is it has all this protein and the proteins already in amino acid form, which means your body as an athlete, you know this, you have your, you already doesn't have to break down the protein to get access to it.

Speaker 3: (18:34)
And what's even cooler is that, and most people don't know this, but spirulina is technically a bacteria. It does not have a cellulous wall. So the reason why this is important, particularly for athletes is because again, there's nothing for your body to break down to get access to the protein and the other Koreans. So it's absorbed virtually instantly. And uh, so normally do you get all the aminos? It's loaded with B vitamins, which convert the glucose into energy. And it also has the highest concentration of iron in the world. Iron carries oxygen in your blood. It helps my body. I know. It helps your body. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's pretty cool. I can, I can go even geekier on the oxygen today cause I've got, you know, like a lot of athletes have anemia, like problems since runners, amino acids are a part of, you know, the, the things that I get my all my athletes on so that they can get access to it.

Speaker 3: (19:32)
So anything that, um, and, and since listening to you on, um, our mutual friend boomer, uh, Edison's podcasts, I've had my husband now who's training for an ultra marathon in four weeks time. I'm tasting this Berliner and his regime as it was for us, for his training, um, and finding fantastic results. And I've never, I never made the connection before between, okay. You know, I knew about spirulina, I knew the basics, but I didn't understand it could actually be the perfect food for endurance athletes. It is the perfect, we in fact field, so many Olympic athletes during the associate winter Olympics that I sent two of my team over to Sochi and because I'm Canadian and we were getting known by the Canadian Olympic teams, we had full access to the Canadian Olympic village and I had a previous Olympic athlete on my U S team here. And so we got complete access to the us Olympic village as well. So it was pretty, it was pretty cool.

Speaker 3: (20:32)
Uh, athletes who competed in that winter Olympics were metaled and they publicly, uh, I have declared, you know, the, you know, congratulate us for helping them get there. So it was, it was a pretty low, yeah, we interested to tastes of it more, uh, with your products and the, um, in the, in the super long distance. And endurance's which is my background and we train a lot of experts in that area. So how would, what sort of results you could get if you were doing like mega long distances? Cause uh, digestive issues are a major problem for ultra endurance athletes like GI pain. Um, jeez, because all your bloods in your muscles of course, when that's right in your yeah, it's not doing well as far as, so the big problem comes in, how do you get enough energy in while you're running for two days, three days, whatever the rice is.

Speaker 3: (21:24)
Um, and this could be a perfect solution for a whole, well, April, it is the perfect solution. And in fact, I used to speak at triathlon clubs about this and they used to at first nail me because they said, well, I don't believe how anything with one calorie per tablet can give me energy. So I had to do the deep dive in the science and I have all the answers. Why not only that, I have anecdotal evidence because I can give you a list of, you know, 20 ultra runners who were run a hundred miles only on our algae and water. That's it. Nothing else. Wow. And to your point about the, um, anemia, um, I've learned for a long time, there's something called the foot strike. There's something about when the athlete's foot hits of Ash halt, it causes the iron to dissipate. And it's a real problem for, for Addie.

Speaker 3: (22:18)
Yeah. Yeah. That's Brenner's, Vimeo, yadda. Well, this is my answer. I'm really excited because I have to have constant, um, like iron infusions. Um, Oh, Oh, Oh. And my, my, and I'm not alone in this problem. There are a lot of female athletes especially, um, who are always at the bottom means, and of course their performances in and P because you can't carry enough blood and enough oxygen and, okay. Well we'll, we'll get you hooked up with some our cause. So, so the, uh, so the spirulina, you also have to be sure you take enough of it. We'd say we recommend 30 tablets for someone who's going on a run. Oh wow. Okay. So you know, if you only take three or four or you can, if you're just a mild runner, you know, he can take three, four. But if you're going to do a, you know, more than three or four miles, we suggest the full 30 tablets and there is never, this is why the athletes love it.

Speaker 3: (23:11)
Not only do they get the energy, it's steady energy. It's not a rush. It's not a crash. It's just steady. It's not just physical, it's mental. Because you also know as you fatigue, the first thing that goes is your focus, but you never get stomach distress because it literally gets absorbed into your bloodstream before it hits your, your GI track. It's that because there's no, you know, selling as well. Yeah. Yeah. The protein is already in aminos and all the other, um, the iron and the B vitamins and they make it three. Everything is attached to the amino. Everything just gets absorbed so quickly. It's, it's, um, it's amazing. So it's also got a mega three. So does it have B12 or is the B12 missing? Yes, it does have. B12. Um, and I'm, I have to admit, I'm on the fence. I don't promote the B12 because I honestly don't know whether it's functioning as a B12, but it's there.

Speaker 3: (24:07)
Cause we do the, you know, the lab test and it does have a mega three, so it's a sustainable source of, of Omega three. And it's also vegan of course. excuse me. So, uh, it's, uh, it has things like boron, which helped with your, your, uh, mental focus in the telomeres, um, and helps with coordination. So there's, I have a document I'll send you that itemizes about 20 different reasons why spirulina is the perfect fuel in every single possible way. Um, so it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's super excited to try have half of our athletes and I've always seen what being like my husband obviously not dosing him up enough. I think I need to get more. Yeah. Well and, and you just, um, and so when you go on the long runs and then every, you know, hour, a couple hours, when you're starting to feel a little fatigued, take another 10 or 15 you'll, it's like anything, you kind of have to play around with it and see what works for your body.

Speaker 3: (25:05)
But in general, spirulina is that energizing algae helps with your physical energy, your mental focus. It satisfies hunger. So we have a lot of people who are biohackers keto, paleo who use it for intermittent fasting because it is ketogenic. It does not decrease your ketones or both. We've had a test that I was just at a Quito conference where I, I saw boomer, uh, and, and so it's very in embrace it also a lot of people when they're on the keto diet or they're not eating many greens cause they don't want the carbs. Uh, so this answers your solution cause there's zero carbs but it has the highest concentration of chlorophyll in the world, but you need to maintain your health. So it's truly the perfect food. And, um, as I say, spirulina, I will say it doesn't taste very good. So people either swallow it or put it into a smoothie. So that's your best way to, it's totally chewable. I, I do eat mine, but you know, it's my company and it's sort of like my dropped, so to sneak. So don't feel we, in fact, we have these sassy stickers that we send, we give out at particular, you know, some only select events, but then the sticker says it's okay to swallow.

Speaker 3: (26:25)
We have a sense of humor, right. Probably not as bad as much nutrients as both of those things. Well, you know, there is so much nutrition that um, even if you take five a day, it's probably more nutrition than your body is getting an entire week. It's that crazy. Yeah. So between protein and the 40 vitamins and minerals and all the B vitamins and the Omega threes, it's off the charts, the antioxidants and we, it really, it's off. The antioxidants was an interesting one. So it helps. So it can help your LDL your cholesterol, LDL and your triglyceride profile too, can't it? Yes. Yes. oxidation. I understand. So it can help reduce the oxidation effect that, yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And while we've had people who, who have the first normal blood pressure reading after even two days of taking the spirulina, it's that fast. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty, Oh, all drug free.

Speaker 3: (27:23)
Noninvasive, just nutrient dense mother nature at her best. It's, it's pretty cool. Ready, simple answer. Like, so some of them were like a brain injury, like my mother. Um, what sort of like dosages would you say for here? Like if I had not been giving her enough? Probably. Um, and is it safe to go to a higher amount because it is only a food, isn't it? Yes, it, I tell people, well, you can't, you can't overdose on salad. Um, so we sell single servings of her of 30 tablets. And originally we were telling everybody to take 30 tablets a day or 30 tablets before a workout. Um, that's because we were working initially with elite athletes and that's how many it took for them to feel the improvements. But now we're really working with a lot of consumers who are very nutrient deprived. So any small amount will will make a difference. So we're suggesting three or four or five a day, but you know, feel free to take 30. And I personally have about a hundred a day and half for the last eight years. So, so there's no bloody good.

Speaker 3: (28:28)
You would be surprised how old I am. Um, so for my age, I do look very young. I was in LA recently and I took a sub, a train, a rapid train. I was in a suburb and taking the train to, into LA and um, seniors could ride for 35 cents and I qualified as a senior. I'm a senior now. Why? To go just and, and I'm very much like into the, like I'm, I'm, I'm getting old too. I'm 51 at the moment and I'm like, I want to age like a superstar. I don't want to give the normal aging things. I'm like, Oh no, it's not. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not aging gracefully and nor should you and I'm way over, I'm way over that. So, uh, so obviously you're doing something right. So blue, green algae.

Speaker 3: (29:28)
So chlorella. So, and also by the way, fear Lena was the first life on earth almost 4 billion years ago. Chlorella developed about a billion years afterwards. And it does belong to the plant kingdom, although technically it is not a plant. It's a sea vegetable because it doesn't have any phytates or um, any of the anti-nutrients that you know, that, um, can cause some problems with people. So it's, it's its own little category. So chlorella, unlike spirulina, does not give you energy, but what it does is it build your immune system and pulls out toxins. So it helps you cover from anything. It helps you recover from any kind of illness. In fact, it prevents them. Uh, and it does this in a number of ways. First of all, it has the highest concentration of chlorophyll in the world. Remember, that's what got my sister her. The oncologist advised her to change her diet to an alkaline one because of the chlorophyll which builds your immune system.

Speaker 3: (30:27)
Chlorophyll is a fat-based pigment. And why that's important is because your health starts at the cellular level. So it's the cell walls and the mitochondria. Now if the cell walls are not healthy and they need healthy fats to be healthy, um, that causes, um, disruption in your homeostasis and nutrients can't get in and toxins can't get out. So chlorophyll, you know that people always say how greens are cleansing. Well, this is what's cleansing about it. It's the chlorophyll that heals the cell walls. So did you can get in and toxins can get out and at the toxins. And if neither of that is happening, your mitochondria is suffer, your ATP is lower. You start to get rogue cells that don't communicate that which lead to cancer cells and it's a downward spiral from there. So chlorophyll is very important to maintaining your health. And there is nothing in the world that has more chlorophyll than chlorella.

Speaker 3: (31:22)
It even has 25 times more chlorophyll than liquid chlorophyll because liquid chlorophyll is made from alfalfa sprouts. It has a, I think 200 times more chlorophyll in spinach, a thousand times more than you know, cabbage. And I have this all on a chart from the Linus Pauling Institute showing all the different concentrations. Um, so, so chlorophyll very, very important. But in chlorella. Second, chlorella has never, I said spirulina has no celly. This wall with chlorella has the hardest in the entire plant. Kingdom is that hard cell wall that attaches to toxins and pulls them out. So oppose that led mercury. Aluminum athletes use it after any kind of sport because it pulls out lactic acid so your muscles aren't sore the next day. Um, people use it for, um, after drinking wine, beer or anything because it attaches to the alcohol. Well, the, the chemicals, the toxins that are released by the alcohol and pulls them out.

Speaker 3: (32:21)
So you are sober in an hour and a half and you never have a hangover. Seriously. I know. It's crazy. Good old chlorella. So it pulls out toxins. We have customers who use it to pull out excess chemotherapy after their treatments. You need to wait two days after your treatment because it will identify the chemotherapy as a toxin. And we want you to be sure to get your treatment and then pull it out. But they used it at a Chernobyl Hiroshima Fukushima, because in Asia, they all know that chlorella is the only thing that pulls out radiation. So in fact, after the Fukushima disaster seven years ago, the entire Asian supply of chlorella was bought up and there was nothing available for two months because it takes a month, bro and a month to dry and all that sort of stuff. So, um, so it's been documented, um, all around the world for pulling out toxins.

Speaker 3: (33:15)
We work with, um, a biological dentist who use it to, um, when they pull up, um, AMA grams because of course it's mercury and they use it for themselves as well as their patients. Cause of course they're inhaling the fumes from the feet. Wow. Chlorella also has the highest concentration of RNA and DNA in the world, which is important as you age because this will help your, your own RNA DNA to grow back healthier. It has something called chlorella growth factor, which speeds up the growth of yourselves. So if you injure yourself or have surgery that combined with the RNA and DNA and all the other stuff, you heal literally half the time. It's unbelievable. It's really unbelievable. Chlorella also has the daily requirement of a vitamin called vitamin K too. Now, listeners aren't familiar with K two. It's a very important vitamin only discovered 25 years ago.

Speaker 3: (34:08)
Um, they attribute a lot of heart, a heart disease and Alzheimer's to too much calcium in your blood vessels or your brain wrinkles in your skin from too much calcium. Um, uh, kidney stones. How much calcium, cause we're all taking calcium and we're all taking of calcium going into the softest. It's absorbed in the wrong places. Zorba in your bones. So what's happening is gathering in your soft tissue like your blood vessels, your brains and only K2 will activate the two proteins that move it out of soft tissue and put it into your bones. So at the same time, it prevents osteoporosis, which is a classic problem for, for women. Um, and the only places you can get K2 from naturally from food is grass fed animal protein. I know you guys have a lot of grass fed animals in New Zealand. Um, there's a disc called natto, which is a Japanese dish, which is really slimy and nobody likes to eat it.

Speaker 3: (35:06)
But I found out I did lab test. It's also in the algae, there's twice as much in the chlorella as there is in the spirulina. So it has your daily requirement of K2 in the chlorella. I mentioned this because, Oh, in general, I want people to understand that spirulina is an energizing algae and chlorella is a wellness and health and detox algae. It's a wellness LG. So if you want to recover from anything or prevent any illness, chlorella is your answer. Um, and spirulina will always give you energy and help keep you focus. So there's two of them. Yeah, I didn't understand that distinction. And I mean I've hooked into the, the um, vitamin D Kate in K2 and vitamin a, um, combination to get the calcium out of the soft tissues and then to the bones where it shouldn't be. Yeah. I didn't realize that the K2 was incorrect.

Speaker 3: (35:59)
So that's a real, yes. Well, I think I'm the only one that I think I'm the only one that knows that as I'm this closet researcher and I'll be, cause I need to know the answers. I need to know why this works so well because nobody else has explained algae the way that I explained it. And I could only, as you know, you only become um, you become a good teacher when you have dug deep into complex matters and then you, you find a way to simplify them for people. So I was, I needed to go through the complexity and now, I mean simplify them for people so they don't have to, but I have the research in case they want the backstory so they know that it's all legitimate and documented and all that sort of stuff. So I'm pretty amazing. And so in people, when people ask me when to take the algae, well you could take either of them alone, together with food instead of food morning, noon, night.

Speaker 3: (36:57)
However, in most cases people want energy in the morning and during the day, maybe before a workout, before an important meeting or a school or whatever. So take your spirit, you know, whenever you want energy and take your chlorella at anytime you want to eat it. Uh, but certainly at nighttime, because if you've done a workout, it will pull up the lactic acid. If you've had any wine or cocktails, they'll pull the alcohol out. Um, it helps your, your body goes through detox cycle when you sleep anyways. So this Patil is facilitates the detox. Speaking of which, uh, about the brain health. You know, when you're sleeping, your brain has a lymphatic system of its own. What? And so the important, one of the many important reasons for getting a deep sleep is it will not activate. And unless you're in that, I think Delta, whatever, again, number one sleep pattern.

Speaker 3: (37:49)
So, so it washes your brain. And so while it's cleaning out these talks as it's pulling out things like aluminum that caused things like Alzheimer's. So if you have the chlorella in your system while you're sleeping, it will facilitate that cleansing process, not only of your body, but of your brain. I mean it's going to happen anyways. But the true, you know, street washing, if you want to say of your brain occurs when you're sleeping, yes. Go. So it's important to have the chlorella when you're sleeping. I think every single person in the world should be taking chlorella every single day because, um, I was reading, there's something like 280 chemicals in America that have been released since world war II and about 200 of them, of the 200 have been tested. So there's, we're surrounded in our, in our air, in our clothing, and you've got to get those things out, uh, and were there also buried in ourselves.

Speaker 3: (38:42)
So, um, until you get rid of them, they're just going to cause silent damage and inflammation. So it's in all of us is adding to the aging, you know, we, we, we have in this society, we have this belief that aging is inevitable, but you know, like there's so many aspects to it. And if we tackle them one by one, I'm sure you know, if you're a divest Bree fan or not, I don't know. But yeah, not attacking all the different pillars of aging and you know, one of them being like this sort of stuff, getting into this stuff, getting the right nutrients and the right amounts at the right times and understanding we don't have to age like how our grandparents aged or even our parents age, you know, we've got a chance at it in this day and age that we can change our, uh, you know, the time that we are going to be healthy for and the time that we going to live for.

Speaker 3: (39:33)
And you and I being, you know, North of, uh, 40, both have a vested interest in making this crackly. Yeah. Well, um, the other good thing about chlorella is it actually tastes pretty good. So, um, particularly if you put a little sea salt on it or eat it with the best is if you eat it with macadamia nuts, which is great because macadamia nuts are loved by the keto community. And when you eat macadamia nuts and chlorella are at least ours, it tastes like you're eating potato chips. I swear to God, it is unbelievable. And so if you can learn to like my tastes pretty good with almonds as well, or banana chips or coconut chips or whatever, but the macadamia and the chlorella and a little bit of sea salt is the magic just snack guys. And not only is it a healthy snack, it's truly a healing snack.

Speaker 3: (40:27)
You can be pulling out toxins and you can be building your RNA and DNA and you can be cleansing yourselves at the same time. I mean it's, that's why I call it efficient nutrition. It can do all of these things so effectively in such small quantities like nothing else in the world. So it's pretty funny. I'm now starting to see why you are so passionate about, Oh, I know with all that responsibility to share this. So funny. You know like you, you with your sister starting off of the studio. I've been on a journey with my mom and ma and my own health as well. And you just like, you get the answers and this is why I do this podcast and you're like, I want to share this one. Everybody knows this. I go like dog. And so you like this, what we try to give your knowledge to, to people and to share it and, and you just can't have a big enough impact fast enough.

Speaker 3: (41:20)
I know, you know. Well, I'm so glad you know that podcasts have developed because people like you, um, have an audience that is eager to learn. I'm eager to, I'm eager to educate, but you know, the average person on the street doesn't want to learn. They want to go home and eat their crappy food and watch TV. You know, I don't even know. I haven't had a TV in 10 years. And it's like, why would you watch television when you can learn about the science of things that are going to change people's lives? I mean, seriously. Here may, I'm sitting on the plane in between conferences and I'm either listening to a recording from some scientific lecture or, or I'm, uh, reading something and every moment is filled with stuffing things in my brain. And sometimes it gets to the point where I have to actually stop and go, no, I am going to just watch a movie or something because the brain fried. But I'm like, uh, time is short and I've got so much to cram in there. Keeps popping out the other side. I know that, right.

Speaker 3: (42:25)
Well that is shining in that. And I'm so grateful to folks like you and also other vendors who are trying their best to get products to the community that wants to preserve their health or, or encourage their families to preserve their health. Because we're so surrounded with sugar and carbs and toxins and, uh, we have to be proactive too and take charge of our lives because nobody else is gonna do it for us. And ICP, all the people with walkers. And I'm thinking, that's not going to be me. So, yeah. And, and, and, and that's, we've, we've lived, we've grown up in a world where you were told, the doctor knows everything you're like of doctor is God and what they say goes in and, and this nothing, nothing. He gets doctors. Um, but we cannot give up a responsibility for our own health to somebody else because that busy, they've got a hundreds of patients, they've got 10 minutes to see you.

Speaker 3: (43:23)
They are definitely influenced by the pharmaceutical companies. You cannot rely on that as being the only place that you get your information to ask to be responsible. And we live in a day and age where we can be responsible, we can go, we can't access the studies we can. And not everyone's a science news like we are. Um, but you can still find some really good information even on a surface level. Um, and this is why it's important that people take ownership of their own health in ways we even eat better, get connected with nature, you know, understand what these rhythms in our bodies so that we can optimize it. Well, it's a, it's a great time because, um, uh, you know, I'm also a Reiki healer and I've just, I've been interested in nature all my life and, and it's, and I do yoga and I also do high intensity workouts and it's not woo woo.

Speaker 3: (44:15)
Like, it's just, you start to understand that we're all connected and if you treat your body, uh, holistically and the environment holistically, you will just feel better and you'll be more loving and you'll just, everything will work better. So anyways, I truly believe algae is part of that solution. Also from an environmental perspective because you know there are a lot of the oceans are being overfished for their fish oil. The algae. Where do you think the fish get the Omega three from? They get it from algae. They only can, yeah, that's where it comes from. So go to the bottom, the original source of the mega three, get it from the algae yourself. By the way, almost all um, fish oil goes rancid in the PR and the production basis three a day and the Omega three and algae never goes rancid. Speaking of which, our bags, we have to put an expiry date on it.

Speaker 3: (45:07)
So it's usually two or three years out, which is pretty long and its own right. But technically it never goes bad cause it's just a dried vegetable. And you could keep this for 10 years and open it up and still be fine. Absolutely fine. So mom, and that's because algae is a unique, um, as I said, it's not really a plant. Um, I read recently a group from national geographic went up to the Antarctic and they took a chunk of ice that was carbon dated to almost 4 billion years old. And they took it back lab. Yeah. And they, some of it in a Petri dish cause they saw some algae was attached to the ice and they, and they put on it and the LG started growing like over 300 years old and starts growing again because LG never dies. It just goes dormant. Isn't that crazy? It's amazing. So if we ate the LG thin, perhaps we won't ever die. It would be great to have people taking it because I'm going to live forever. So I need friends who are going to be with me, take my allergies. I'll have someone to hang out with.

Speaker 3: (46:11)
You got to have that attitude at least. So we can't lie. We can, we can do me and Dave Asprey will be the last one standing and stuff. And with the chlorella, I, um, I remember you saying on boomers podcast that it does have a hard cellular wall. So the way that it's broken down that cellular wall so that you can digest it as a human, um, has implications from where you should get your core hours. Yes. Well, thank you for mentioning that. So I, um, first of all, the whole, um, LG industry has started with chlorella in Japan and there's a company called sun chlorella that started this all but 50 years ago. And I'm very grateful to them because it took them 10 years to figure out how to grow chlorella for mass consumption. And they, and they, that they're the ones that found out that you had to crack the cell wall because it is so hard.

Speaker 3: (47:06)
Um, and if it wasn't cracked, your body would not be able to absorb the nutrients. So, uh, it still will pull out toxins, but you won't get any of the nutrients. So they developed and patented a technique called dynamo, which, um, virtually the entire industry uses, uh, chlorella industry because of course, spirulina has no cell wall. Um, and they, they tumble the chlorella with glass beads. Now what happens is the glass heats up and there was always concerned that led from the glass leaked into the chlorella and they always declined and said, no, that didn't happen. Didn't happen. But, um, about 10 years ago, just when I was starting the company, the state of California tested their chlorella and did find it had excess amounts of lead in it. So they said, well, you can either stop selling here or put a warning on your package, which is what they did.

Speaker 3: (47:55)
So by sun, chlorella and America, you'll see a warning on the package. But the bigger problem is it's not just them that uses this technique. It's virtually an entire chlorella industry. So when I started the company 10 years ago, I, I heard that this was a potential problem. And I said, there's got to be another way to crack the Corolla. We've got to find some, but some other way. And there was a new technique that had just come out and that's what we use. It's um, you pass the chlorella through a sound chamber and it's the vibrations that crack LA chlorella. It's very similar to how an opera singers voice can crack a class. So it's the vibrations that are cracking the cell wall. I told this to somebody recently and they said, Oh well your, your chlorella has good vibrations. Yes. Yeah, we're all, we're all buy, buy, buy, buy, buy bations cause I'm also a regular so I owe all about energy and I if you haven't, if your listeners are not familiar with dr Joe Dispenza, um, yeah, yeah. I would encourage you, cause DePaulo him as well is incredible. And we sent him some product actually recently. My dream is to have our stuff at his seminars. I hope to go to one soon. He's, he's, he is, he's unbelievable. Unbelievable. He, he has between him and algae, I think we can, we, we have a future, we have a future and maybe add in a couple of others. Like I'm Dr. Bruce Lipton and divest and yeah.

Speaker 3: (49:30)
Yeah. Oh man, those guys, I, I'm so grateful to them. I've been reading their books for 20 years and I'm now getting to learn even more. And it all makes sense when you start to read about these different techniques and what everyone's doing. It all starts to make sense. So, and this is an exciting age to live in and I, we're getting off track, but the science is catching up with the Woodward community community where it was considered, you know, these, some of these things were considered like Reiki and like other things. Then it was a bit off the beaten track and no science. And now the science is actually proving a lot of the Eastern rights and things and you know, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, medicine, um, course, you know, acupuncture, all of those things. And now I've got scientific backing that they are actually, um, and this is a really interesting convergence now and that's what I loved about Dr. Bruce Lipton's work toe was he actually managed as a, as a molecular biologist to connect the spiritual world.

Speaker 3: (50:30)
Even with the cellular bio, you know, biology and epigenetics. It was a visit and sign book there. The biology of life. I love that, that book. Um, and to see it all coming together. And I think as we get into quantum physics and things that are coming up down the road, I think, wow, you know, there's into the quantum realm, it's going to probe. A lot of these things have real value in real science behind it. Well, and as a small segue, that's one of many reasons why I'm in love with algae. Cause I tell people, Hey, before algae earth was just water and gas, there was not anything living on earth 4 billion years ago. Now I don't know why spirulina showed up, but it did. It's a single cell organism. And after, and it releases, oxygen was growing. So after a billion years, it released enough oxygen that other life forms could, could grow, which brought chlorella, which then brought more oxygen to earth, which allowed more life forms.

Speaker 3: (51:31)
And then eventually we had life in the ocean. And then we had terrestrial life. And then the old, only 800 million years ago did life. Humans show up. But there's gotta be, I think there's something mystical about allergy because it was the first single cell life on earth. Um, and it's still here and it's, you know, they would prove that it's got something about it. It doesn't die. It doesn't, you know, it's, it's been around a long time. They might be something more to it even then than the size of it. Right, right. So I, I'm Kiffin I know you're, you're, you're extremely tired and busy. Um, I'm gonna wrap it up there in a moment, but I, I just wanted to talk about where people can get your product and make sure that they're getting a good quality supplements. And, um, Catherine's been doing this way obviously for a very long time.

Speaker 3: (52:24)
A new company is energy buts.com. Um, and so anybody who's in America, Canada, we're asked you ship to, or we don't ship internationally, although ironically, we stopped shipping to New Zealand and Australia and we have a, um, a distributor who has a lovely couple, uh, Chris and Fria, they have a website called, uh, eat clean, live dirty.com. Dot. A U and they sell our products through their website, the eat clean live durney.com dot. A U. But if you buy, if you live anywhere other than a event that's usable and for Australia, you can buy from our website energy bits.com and we ship internationally into Canada, obviously throughout the U S uh, and when you shop on our website and use the discount code, Lisa L I S a could be uppercase or lowercase, it doesn't matter. Then you get 20% off your purchase and it works on everything all the time. But that's only on our website. Not that you need energy, but unfortunately Kiwis and Aussies, you have to just support the um, uh, eight clean lifts, dirty a website and you don't get the discount. But if you do, if you live in the States or Canada or anywhere else, you can get a 20% discount. So that's a really, really con thing. Thank you very much Catherine for that.

Speaker 3: (53:52)
And I'll, and it's very concentrated, so it's very high quality. If you also live in the United States, you can purchase from Amazon. We sell everything on Amazon, no discount codes work. And also on Amazon, we sell little pouches that have 30 tablets. On our website. You can only buy large bags that have a thousand tablets or boxes that have single single servings. But on Amazon you can buy for a $4 single serving and tested out if you'd like before you met to a large bag. And um, I'd also encourage people to come and visit us on Instagram. Our handle is at energy beds. Same with Facebook, it's in it at energy bits, um, or Twitter. And if you come to our website, you'll see we have two brands of spirulina. One is called energy beds, but we have a second brand of spirulina called beauty beds because it also builds your skin and hair health.

Speaker 3: (54:41)
And we wanted something that would be appropriate for spas and a little bit more girly, but it's exactly the same product, just different packaging. And then the chlorella we talked about, that's called recovery. That's, and then we have a fourth product called vitality bits, which is 50% spirulina, 50% chlorella in general, particularly if you're an athlete. We encourage you to buy them separately because you want to split, you know, load up on the spirulina before your workout and during your workout or run. And then you want to take the chlorella afterwards and then, or if maybe you had a little extra to drink extra chlorella or maybe you've got, you're sick and you're detoxing extra chlorella. But that way you have more control over the two different allergies cause they do completely different things in your body. That's important distinction because I didn't understand that really.

Speaker 3: (55:30)
So that's, that's really good. So endurance athletes, go and get your spirulina and chlorella and do it separately and have the S the spirulina before your workouts, the Corella after or in the evenings to you repeat it. So www.ENERGYbits.com I'll put the show notes. Of course you can get on my website, at least@tammany.com on the podcast, under the podcast button. We would have this all available for you. Um, and if you want to reach out to Katherine, can they reach you somewhere or just by your website? Yeah, they can. The customer carrot energy bits.com. I've written about a hundred papers on different aspects of LG white helps with different things. I'll send you a ton of stuff, Lisa, and you can put, you can post things. I'll send you a PowerPoint about widescreen for athletes. Um, yeah, like I said, we were, we were a sports nutrition product when we first started because the runners discovered us and then they told everybody else and that was that. And we'll, we'll keep spreading that word to the runners down on Stan, the sins of the world. So Katherine, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it. I know you're super busy lady. Um, wonderful that we're connected. I'm sure we'll stay connected. Um, so yeah, all the best with your big mission in life to solve world hunger. And I tell people we're tiny but mighty and you will be too when you do geology. Fantastic.

Speaker 1: (56:53)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at www.lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Molecular Biologist Dr. Keith Booher talks about the Horvath epigenetic clock and the why and how behind finding out your biological age. Keith Booher received his PhD from the University of California, Irvine in 2011 where he conducted research in the field of cancer cell metabolism. He then began work at Zymo Research Corporation developing methods and assays for the investigation of epigenetics. Along with colleagues, he contributed to a high impact study evaluating methods for DNA methylation validation in 2016.

Keith continues to study epigenetics in his current position as Application Scientist at The myDNAge company or Epimorphy, LLC, in Southern California where his research is focused on healthy aging and longevity.

In his free time, you can find Keith either on the dance floor, at the local library, or spending time with his family.

"The world population is aging, especially in the West and the industrialized countries of Asia. In fact, the percentage of the population over the age of 65 is expected to more than double by the year 2050. An aging population presents many societal challenges as advanced age is the number one contributor to chronic ailments such as heart disease, cancer, neurological disorders, and more. It is imperative that meaningful and effective anti-aging interventions are identified and deployed in order to ease the transition from a younger to a gradually older population. Epigenetics involves the modification of gene expression without changing the underlying DNA sequence. Importantly, many recent scientific studies demonstrate the connection between epigenetics, especially DNA methylation, and aging. To date, analyzing changing DNA methylation patterns at key genes is the most accurate way to quantify the aging process. Understanding the connection between epigenetics and the aging process allows us to gain deeper insight into the mechanisms that cause aging, with the ultimate hope of devising interventions that will potentially lead to better health and longevity. Dr. Booher highlights the use cases for this new type of testing and it's used for those individuals or teams wanting to understand what protocols, training regimes, food plans, supplement regimes etc impact their own aging and how you can maybe even turn back the clock ticking on us all. Get yourself tested and find out your biological age at: https://www.mydnage.com/ Use the code 'LISA15" to get a 15% discount on the cost of the test Watch Dr. Keith's Ted Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeT1RcwsDMc We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
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These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.
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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com welcome to pushing the limits.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Let's see everyone. Thanks for joining me again today. I have a scientist to guest on the show, Dr. Keith Booher. Now, Dr. Keith is a molecular biologist and he works for a company called mydnage.com. Now this is a company that uses Dr. Steve Horvath's epigenetic clock. This tells us our biological age. So we have a very interesting conversation around the difference between your biological age your, your chronological age, and also the method of telling how old you are based on your DNA. So we're looking at DNA methylation as opposed to some of the other processes that look at biological aging from other factors. And we get to into a deep dive about looking at your biological age. Now this is really interesting from a perspective from coaching, from I'm trying to draw a line in the sand to see where you are now.

Speaker 2: (01:08)
And I can see this having benefits. We are looking at it for our mastermind program where we're thinking about having this as our baseline to start from where we can actually see what your biological age is at one point in time when you start. And then using that as we go through our program to see how you come out at the other end. And hopefully you would have lost a number of years off your life as far as your biological ages going. So this was a very interesting deep dive into this topic. So I hope you enjoy the show. And just before we go over to Dr Keith just like to remind you that I have my book relentless coming out in just a couple of weeks time or four weeks time and it's on the 11th of March and launches, it's available for preorder now you can jump on my website, hit the shop button and preorder it.

Speaker 2: (01:57)
And at moment you'll get access to my mindset Academy mindsetu for free. If you join or buy the book in the preorder stage, you'll also get a discount. It'll normally be retailing for $35. You'll get it for $29 plus you get access to mindset, you a value of $275. So really good idea to go on and jump and now and get it. And that helps me get the book rolling, get it out into the world. It's been a two year long process. So really excited to see that baby launch. As always, reach out to me if you've got any questions on this episode or on any of the other episodes that we've recorded. And I really appreciate your help with ratings and reviews on iTunes that really helps the show get exposure and of course sharing it with your friends and family if you got value out of it. So thanks and now over to Dr. Keith Booher from mydnage.com.

Speaker 3: (02:49)
Well, hello everyone. Lisa Tamati speaking and here I'm pushing the limits. I thank you once again for joining me today. I have a wonderful guest, Dr. Keith Booher who is a biochemist. Is that correct case?

Speaker 4: (03:02)
Yes, that's correctly. So thank you for having me.

Speaker 3: (03:04)
Yeah, it's wonderful to have you. So Keith is going to talk to us today about the biological clock. He works for a company called mydnage which does testing of the biological age as opposed to your chronological age. And this is a very interesting area we in our company through it continued existing without athletes and clients. So this is something that I'm very interested in finding out more about in cases coined the agreed to come on the show and talk to us about it. So. Okay. Can you give us a little bit of background about who you are and where you come from and, and the work that you're doing?

Speaker 4: (03:46)
Yes, certainly. So, so my name is Keith Booher. I'm a scientist. I worked for the company epi Morphe that offers the mydnage test. This isn't a epigenetic, a base test to quantify aging or biological age. And my background I got a PhD in biological chemistry. I'm from the university of California, Irvine here in Southern California right now. They've worked and where the company's headquartered. I then joined a research companies. I'm a research, Oh, also in California when I started doing epigenetics research in an industrial setting and then transitioned to a, working with the epi Murphy and offering the mydnage test.

Speaker 3: (04:28)
Wonderful. So can you tell us a little bit, well, for the listener, what is epigenetics and the area of study of epigenetics and what is on those a biological clock?

Speaker 4: (04:39)
Yeah, so I think, so the scientific, no definition of epi genetics, so it's a biological term. So simply refers to any changes in gene expression that occur without altering the primary DNA sequence. So what that sort of means in lay context is any, any instance where our genetics interacts with the environment. So sort of nature versus nurture a concept. So what epigenetics then does at the molecular level is to help control gene expression or to help turn genes on or off, or how strongly genes are expressed in the cell. I think an analogy that I've heard before, which is it's not perfect, but I think gives you the idea would be that our genes, our genetics, it'd be the hardware with which we operate. And epigenetics would be the software or instructions that tells that hardware what to do.

Speaker 3: (05:33)
Wow. Okay. So, so in other words, our environment, what we eat they, the, the, the, the toxins in our environment. Eric's the size, whether we do any or not, all of these things will have an effect on how our genes express themselves. So we've gone as sort of DNA code, which we can't really change. Yeah. What genes are turned on and off can be affected by environment. That, correct.

Speaker 4: (05:58)
Yeah, that's absolutely correct. So there's lots of studies looking at how epigenetics change in response to environment. So this, you know, in the past decade, decade and a half, there's been a lot of progress made by the scientific community. So we know that you know, people that go on a controlled exercise regimen you know, when they start versus a, when they stop after six months and compared to control group. So there are genetic changes that, that occur in a skeletal muscle. So we know that people have also looked at adipose or the fat tissue and also seeing epigenetic changes in response to certain exercise programs. We also know that smokers have a different epigenetic, I'm marks highly correlative with smoking. Mmm. That these epigenetic marks behind people in certain occupations where they're exposed to a lot of environmental pollutants such as coal miners, a certain factory workers also have pronounced epigenetic changes compared to those that aren't occupied in such fields.

Speaker 4: (07:04)
I think another, sorry, maybe another example just to really, it would be easy to understand is if you look at twins. So twins are genetically identical individuals. However, through the course of their lives. So we know what, you know, when they're young, we can take it classmates in grade school with some twins. I mean, you couldn't tell them apart. Right. But if we think of older twins, you know, throw the course of their lives, you know, they maybe move to different places there obviously the families that they no start you know, they have different sort of traditions, different diets perhaps they like to eat, you know, brought in from their own partners and all these different influences impact their epigenetics. Right? So these still genetically identical individuals but the epigenetics change based on their environment and their lifestyle and when they're older, they actually don't resemble each other as much as they did when they were. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3: (07:59)
That's really good example of, of, of the, the power of epigenetics isn't it? I saw a photo of a pair of twins that I think were on the Oprah Winfrey show years ago. And two ladies, one very, very overweight one, one not and the identical twins. It's a really, it's an easy way to understand how much your environment fix your epigenetics of fakes your and how you end up. So in other words, we can't just blame mum and dad and our ancestors for what we've got. We have some responsibility for how we tune out. Is that right?

Speaker 4: (08:37)
Yeah, that's right. And I think it's it's actually allows us to take control and you know, kind of dictate where we want to be so we can, we're not destined for some, you know, fate just based on our, our genetics. We, we can actually influence what those genetics do.

Speaker 3: (08:55)
Yeah. So is this so I'm, I, I've read a lot of Dr. Bruce Lipton's work and books. And you know, I have found this whole area really, really fascinating and it's pretty new, isn't it? In the scientific world, like we're talking what the last 30, 40 years or Mmm. Oh, that, that scientists have really understood that the, it's not just your DNA that makes you who you are. Is it pretty new field?

Speaker 4: (09:22)
Yes and no. So I think we're all familiar with the Charles Darwin and in his theories on evolution. He's one of the preeminent scientists, the modern world. Actually before Darwin, there's a French, a scientist and philosopher, a Lamarck who, you know, he actually predicted that the, you know, wow. What are our, our parents or the mother and father the type of lifestyle they live. Okay. Their environment will impact. Mmm. The children. So it's actually a heritable trait passed on just based on, so he said that if you were, if your parents, did you follow with a blacksmith, you know, all the hard work that makes them strong will then be passed onto to his children. Mmm. And like a giraffe that you know, needs to a stretch to reach the the leaves from on the tallest branches of the tree will, you'll get a longer neck and then that'll be passed down for the next generation.

Speaker 4: (10:17)
And this is, this is a way that, okay. Drafts have evolved. Mmm. Once Darwin's theories came out and were tested you know, Mendell then proved how genes, I kind of demonstrated how James can, can, can behave. A lot of the marks, theories were just you know, kind of put in the, the dustbin of history and he was sort of left off, you know, these were, these were sort of thought as ridiculous principles, but a sure enough, as you, as you just mentioned, Lisa, in the past several decades, actually, the Mark's original theories have been proven to be a, have a lot of Yeah. He was before his time. And we know this to be true. I mean, the, the biology is clear that and then we're learning more about it all the time. And even in I think 2014 as these studies were coming out more and more showing the power epigenetics you know, a portrait of what Mark was on the cover of nature magazine and they kind of featured and, you know, paid homage to his, his original theories.

Speaker 3: (11:15)
Wow. What a shame. He wasn't around to say that a bit. That would have been the kinds of a lot of things. So in other words, so when we're talking evolution here or intergenerational . I, I read some way that, for example, when a mother smokes and the baby's in the, in the womb, that that can affect the baby's DNA and then it can affect also who children's DNA. Is that correct? The intergenerational nature, or is that a Zeta? It's not, is it epigenetics or is that more genetic changes?

Speaker 4: (11:54)
Oh, well, so any genetic change that's altered in a, what we call the germline. Oh, you know, the the male gametes are the chemo sites. That's certainly genetically heritable changes that occur in our you know, the scan for example, know if we know examples that give rise to cancer or something don't. So those wouldn't be heritable. Right. So like if something like skin cancer epigenetics, then, so, so for it to be heritable, it has to occur in the germline so that that would be the same for genetics or, right. Yeah. So we, so certainly genetic change is hard. I mean, that's, that's very clear. Epigenetic is it seems to also be true. There's lots of circumstantial evidence. It's very difficult to do these studies in humans for obvious reasons. Hmm. Other studies and other types of model organisms, the biologists often used to study different phenomenon indicates that indeed epigenetic inheritance inheritance is, is a observed phenomenon. I think it's very strong evidence in plants. I mean, these, these, these traits are, I mean, they persist for it. Dozens of generations in mammals, you know, maybe more temporal. So two to three or even four generations, but not not, not that stable, but it appears that they are here.

Speaker 3: (13:16)
Wow. Okay. So so we can affect our whole, yeah, the intergenerational aspect of it is quite interesting, but if we, if we just back up a little bit now and go into the dr Steve Horvath's work in the Horvath clock and I believe that is the basis of the work that has his work is the basis of, of the testing that you do. Can you explain what dr Horvath discovered and what that means for biological age and what, you know, how, how, how we can use it perhaps?

Speaker 4: (13:50)
Yeah. So this biological aging or epigenetic aging clock. So dr Horvath I think is the worldwide leader in this research. So he originally published a study in 2013. There was actually another study that came out actually a little before his that did something very similar. So I should mention too, it, he's, dr Horvath is a professor at UCLA. Oh. Petitioning biologists, computational biologists. So what both these research groups did, so her about that UCLA and then another group led by Hannah at a UC San Diego. So both in Southern California. So what they did was they looked at the epigenetic, a data for thousands of individuals and the applied some complex statistical mathematical algorithms. And what they found was that there were patterns of a change, epigenetic change that occurs with age. And so by of tapping into these different patterns, they could develop a model that would predict [inaudible] predict age based on epigenetic information. So, so that's where the clock came from. So basically, depending on what your epi genetics show, you can then assign a biological age

Speaker 3: (15:05)
Without any information. On the individual yourself. If you can take just a drop of blood, you can actually say with, with pretty, hi Jackness call it 98, the single thing. How well would that individual is based on the work from dr Hova? So most people fall into this, this Linea Patton that would say, well, this person has these markers on the DNA before that person is the Savage, is that how it works?

Speaker 4: (15:42)
That's correct. That's correct. So I think there's one. So it's not, it's not just that you want to predict an age, but it's actually a signing up biological age. Yes. So I think that's a key kind of thing to keep in mind. So no, we talked about the twins earlier, you know, a few moments ago and we can see that some based on, you know, one was overweight and the other was more fit based on their lifestyle choices. So the did the choices that we make in our lives. So whether we exercise or eat a healthy diet other things, Mmm. Influencer epigenetics, which can turn in turn influence our aging. So we can actually have and accelerated aging compared to an average person or actually a slower rate of aging compared to someone else. So the Horvath clock measures that, that biology based on the epigenetics. So, you know, you may be 10 years younger biologically than your chronological age, which would be indicative of, you know, good health or good cause I've stopped choices you've made.

Speaker 3: (16:45)
Do you see big swings in the like, you know, 10 years or is it mostly that most people are in the, you know, within a year or two off via at their actual chronological age.

Speaker 4: (16:56)
So most people will be within a year or two. That's, that's Mmm, that's what you know, Horvath and others have shown. And that's what we see in our data. However you do see outliers. And I think every time we see a case where someone is okay, we do see 10 or, or greater years difference. Wow. It, it seems to be associated with, I mean, it almost in every case, there's some reason why. So some known this person may be suffering from a genetic disease or I think one thing common in, and you know, people we've looked at is, Oh, they've been treated with chemotherapy. So these are very powerful drugs that you know, obviously to, to treat cancer, but I have very strong side effects. I mean, this is very well known. These, you know, some are just not tolerated well at all. And we know these, these type of people have actually accelerated aging, very rapid aging compared to an average person. Mmm.

Speaker 3: (17:53)
Do you see the other way like, people who have lived a, you know, extremely good, healthy lifestyle with good food, good exercise not too much stress you know, 18 or more years younger than there a chronological edge.

Speaker 4: (18:08)
So I don't think just for lifestyle choices, I don't think we've seen a huge effect in that regard. But there we have seen some strong effect. I think for certain people are doing certain targeted interventions, it's a little more and just trying to eat more vegetables or run a little further. These are taking drugs. So I think Metformin

Speaker 3: (18:32)
hmmm

Speaker 4: (18:33)
There's one that's looked at very seriously for some of these anti-aging effects and we do see a pretty consistent, strong effect towards a slower aging. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (18:44)
[Inaudible] Is a, is an interesting one because it doesn't let up think though negatively the, the mitochondria. And, but, but it was a little bit confusing when I looked into just some surface level research on Metformin thinking, gosh, this sounds interesting. I want to have that. It, it produces more longevity, but it can damage the mitochondria. How would that work? Because your mitochondria, your rap part of this whole metabolic pertussis, I mean, it's probably too deeper questions to ask you, you know, but do you know why?

Speaker 4: (19:20)
Well, that's, that's a very good question, huh? The short answer is no one knows why. So, so yeah, there's sort of a antagonistic effects on or seemingly that would, that would associated with adverse health outcomes. But the data showed, we know it has been prescribed for type two diabetics years and has very good outcomes. And it seems to be off target prescribed for other melodies as well. You know, that the side effects are, are small. I mean, that's just based on you know, lots of people taking the drug. It seems that small side effects and clearly the benefits in most cases outweigh the whatever side effects may occur. Mmm. As to the reason why, I mean, it may be that the positive affects to regulate glucose metabolism, insulin,

Speaker 3: (20:16)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (20:18)
Maybe more important than the damage it causes or we have you know, just backup systems to deal with mitochondrial damage or stress that we don't have as robust. I mean, just as you know, living human beings that we don't have for when our glucose metabolism goes awry.

Speaker 3: (20:35)
So you know, that would be especially the case for, you know, people with diabetes or prediabetes. It has the same effect then on the healthy, you know the healthy person who doesn't have insulin resistance or any glucose

Speaker 4: (20:49)
Problems. So, yeah. So we get this, I get this question a lot. I would be very careful about just taking any drugs, you know, getting home from certain websites for example, I would, I would consult a physician for that. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know your listeners are probably very interested on what types of things they can do to, to help them.

Speaker 3: (21:15)
Nobody don't go out there and do anything solid, not advocating this. We definitely won't. But, but it's interesting to look at the data. I know that there was a study done just a couple of years ago, I think by dr Horvath where they were able to reverse the, the epigenetics

Speaker 4: (21:33)
Clock

Speaker 3: (21:34)
In a small clinical study by giving people growth hormone and to diabetic medications, I believe. One. Mmm. And they took two and a half years off the year.

Speaker 4: (21:49)
Mmm.

Speaker 3: (21:49)
I'll say biological

Speaker 4: (21:51)
Age.

Speaker 3: (21:53)
That's, that's pretty exciting to actually be able to reverse. I mean, I know this was a small clinical trial and, and certainly not a big one. And obviously it's a very difficult area to do big blocks studies end, but a w would suggest that we're going to be able to in future reverse the aging process, which is super exciting rather than just slowing it down.

Speaker 4: (22:17)
Yeah. So this was the study you mentioned was a, that was a big one. So there's a lot of I don't know a lot, but there's a, there's a decent amount of studies you know, the Horvath and others have been involved in showing on ways to slow the rate of aging. But I was at a, a, a conference actually I gave a presentation along with the, dr Horvath was a keynote speaker and there was another, a surgeon Jim Watson. No. And Jim Watson said, you know, we think that we will be able to reverse actually reverse the clock. And Horvath was, this was January, 2018. He was pretty, he pushed back pretty hard on that idea. He said, you know, there's, there's nothing we found that can actually reverse aging clock. I, there's nothing in the data that shows that, you know, Jim Watson, he's a, he's a prominent Sergeant, you know, he works with patients and you know, from his medical person, he's like, well, I respectfully disagree. Yeah. And if you look at the authors on the paper, you mentioned Steve Horvath, but actually Jim Watson is, I think he's a senior author on that. Mmm. They ended up collaborating after this, you know, and [inaudible] looking into ideas from the medical side and then from, you know, dr horvath, you know, using this, these, these epigenetic aging clocks. And sure enough just as you mentioned, the study showed it was small, but it showed clearly that the aging was reversed to these individuals

Speaker 3: (23:39)
In a, in a very short space of time too, which is exciting to think what would happen if these interventions were, you know, extrapolated over a longer period of time. Mmm.

Speaker 4: (23:52)
Yeah. That's, that's right. I, you know, if you look at the, the intervention in that case, it was a drug cocktail. It was a two, two hormones, DTA I think human growth

Speaker 3: (24:05)
Yeah.

Speaker 4: (24:06)
And then I met foreman again was a drug they use to kind of help regulate some of the hormonal side effects of those drugs. And it was this three drug cocktail. Mmm. The the original goal of that study was to help reverse some of the immune decline. It had been well documented. We know our immune system starts to decline and as we grow older and the famous of course this organ that it functions in immune, you know, healthy immune function tends to get weaker and shrink. And so that's what the, the study was originally designed to just boost thymus function in the immune system. And okay. The authors showed clearly with, yeah, with, with clinical measurements, famous enemy and functions were restored and it was then shown, that's when Horvath came in and looked at the the epigenetics to show that actually reversed in these people who had responded well to the treatment. So

Speaker 3: (25:04)
Yeah, that's a short time frame as you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. Very exciting. There's hope for us who are aging that we bought. So hurry up. You guys get started in so with the, the Magii and H test which people, you know, the public can go and get the SKUs. So if you wanting to actually, after listening to this episode want to go and just what your biological ages, I'll give you the address. It's just my, my DNA h.com. So DNA G a.com and you can order a test the and have the stun, which I, I'm, I'm finding fascinating from a coaching perspective and from an athlete's perspective to be able to draw a line in the sand and say, well, this is where we started from. And then we, you know, instigate L a epigenetic program for example, and our training regimes and nutrition and so on.

Speaker 3: (26:00)
And then perhaps in six to 12 months time retest to see what the I need a fake was. So I'm, I'm excited to be able to hopefully incorporate this into some of our, of our programs. And one of the reasons I reached out you today when we, let me go to the, look at the the testing that you do. So you're looking at the DNA methylation, is that right? Mmm. Can you explain what the United w what exactly that you're looking there with the, when you're looking at the methylation marks on DNA?

Speaker 4: (26:36)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. So we're looking at DNA methylation. So know anyone who wants to use our test, I might, do you need

Speaker 3: (26:44)
To test?

Speaker 4: (26:45)
We would send them a kit. Mmm. We would it comes with you know, slow land so we can take a blood drop. Mmm. That's put into a, you know, a special preservation stage or buffer solution.

Speaker 3: (26:57)
[Inaudible]

Speaker 4: (26:57)
Your preserve the integrity of the sample and then it can just be mailed back at room temperature. So it doesn't need to be frozen or cold or anything. I think also send a urine sample as well. So it's, it's, it's up to the it's each individual if they feel comfortable with, Mmm. That's sent back to us from the blood or urine sample. We will extract the DNA and then perform some fancy chemistry to quantify DNA methylation levels at a panel of genes that are known to be highly associated or highly informative of aging.

Speaker 3: (27:32)
Huh.

Speaker 4: (27:33)
Based on those values, we can then plug it into a mathematical model to predict the biological age. And again, this is, this is based off of a, you know, Horvath and others of the based on original publications. We sort of make it a economic one available too. And

Speaker 3: (27:54)
Sorry, Carry on.

Speaker 4: (27:58)
So we can make that that technology, which would otherwise not be accessible to non scientists. The general public, we can make it accessible to them. So they can, they can get their own biological age assessment.

Speaker 3: (28:10)
Yeah. It's really, really exciting. So, so you're looking at around 2000 different James. Mmm how do you, how do you express it? He was signs on there. They had assigned basically there was damage here. So you're looking at damage, Marcus.

Speaker 4: (28:30)
It's not, it's not famous markers per se. So specifically it's, it's DNA methylation. So a methyl group is a, you know, if you think from your organic chemistry, this is the most the oxidized form of carbon. A ch three is added to DNA and basis known as cytosines any basis on the cytosines. And when it's added biologically, what's going on at the molecular level is it's influencing gene expression. So helping genes turn on or off, on or off. Mmm. And these levels change over the course of our lives and it's this change that can then be related to, to, to the

Speaker 3: (29:12)
Marcus. Okay. I get that. Yeah. So does it take into consideration things like inflammation or cardiovascular health or kidney and liver function or metabolic metabolic state as well? Or is that readable from the DNA?

Speaker 4: (29:32)
Not with, not with the mighty age test. So if there's something specific like that, again, I'm in consultation with a physician. If you're worried about your

Speaker 5: (29:41)
Kidney health, metabolic health, Mmm. Then, right. You know, there's more specific tests to directly look at. Right, right. I think as a pan health indicator it gives you some information. Right. Cause I know that there is you know, other companies that do biological age tests that are based not on the Horvath clock, but on, I'm looking at these are the tops of biomarkers, like your inflammation, inflammation, they've always been your, your cardiovascular health. And I was trying to understand what is the difference in the, in the approach, you know, in the approaches and which one is, Mmm. Well going to give us some more exact calculation if you like. Do you know of the other ones and the difference between, well I mean, so there's, there's a lot, you know, people have been using like in a doctor's office, just a grip, the grip test, your vape.

Speaker 5: (30:39)
How will you walk? Yeah. The way you walk. But you know, there's a really broad era for those, for people you know, between the ages of teen until some point in your, your older years. Mmm. It's just not very, not very good. It's very precise, very precise. There's other molecular tests. Even if you look at DNA methylation or epigenetic tests, they may focus on a single gene or just a few genes having a, a more focused, you lose a lot of robustness so they can be more susceptible to small changes or small, Mmm. Environmental insults that may actually not have a big impact. So by incorporating thousands of sites into the tests, which, or my teenage test does, it's more robust to small changes. So overall picture. Yeah, that would be it. You know, cause when I heard about things like grip strength and stuff, I was like, well, if I got into the gym a lot, obviously I'm going to have a lot more grip strength.

Speaker 5: (31:39)
It doesn't necessarily, I'm biologically younger. Right, right. Yeah. Basically you say, I have a normal or we're better than average. Right. Or it's not good. Right? I mean that's, you get kind of a yes or no kind of a yes, yes. But it's not, it's difficult to say, you know, you know, you're looking at the also your body type, you know, like, and with your, you're a muscular person or you're a someone who is more of a flexible person, you know, there's, there's just too much. Okay. Wavering in the air. I mean things like inflammation markers of course. Can you look at the state of your health but perhaps notch the actual, you know, whether it's having damage, you mean you can have inflammation markers because you've got a cold as well, which would be skew the data satisfied. and a bad week.

Speaker 5: (32:35)
Yeah. And this wouldn't happen with the, with us taste. So how w I know you've done a Ted talk that I listened to that was very interesting thing and wants to look that up. We can put that in the show notes as well. We've got an aging world population and we have huge problems all around the world without, but their health care system. I think we probably can all agree with that. We're heading into times where chronic disease is going to be costing economically, governments in, in, in, you know, a lot of suffering around the world and a lot of resources. Mmm. So increasing health span is, is a very important piece of being able to lower the costs involved with chronic disease. Would you see that as being one of the areas where this this theory or science is really, really key and an important from a, from an economic standpoint as well as from the personal suffering standpoint?

Speaker 5: (33:39)
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Right, right. I think the potential to benefit society is really there's a, there's a lot a DNA aging test, epigenetic aging tests can, can provide. So it is clearly the best tool, two, assess, aging accurate and precise way. Mmm. And so by using this tool, I mean, whether it's, you know, our company and our researchers doing, you know, in their own labs are their own ways. Mmm. Those interventions which will have the greatest benefit can be more rapidly identified and no, very okay track to be very cheap. I'm an actress. So this, I think this is, you know, beyond just individual testing, which I think is important. And, you know, very interesting people empower themselves by getting some information here, but broader for the broader impact it can have on society. It can be really profound. Yeah. And I know you've, you've done a little bit of work with you mentioned the, in your, in your talk you know, looking at things like sporting H, you know, like how if kids are really in the right age group or people who don't have documents working out how old they are.

Speaker 5: (34:56)
When they coming into countries perhaps as, as refugees without, without any paperwork and things like that. There's a, there's a, there's a whole lot of areas that this could be utilized and couldn't it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So the the youth age testing I think that's, there's sort of a, the, the, the consequences are not as, as grave as like, you know, that aging population in Europe, you know, to some extent, North America and Asia. But but I, it just goes to show the potential applications for something like that. And I actually just learned that, you know, I did some work with [inaudible] law enforcement in Germany a couple of years ago for some for forensics application of using this aging. You can sort of the gauge person of interest in different law enforcement investigations. And in part thanks that work actually I just found out that lie in Germany changed December Oh about 2019.

Speaker 5: (36:01)
Sort of allow this scientific approach, you too well know wow. To work out someone's is being adopted in a lot of different areas. And I mean, Oh yeah. And, and for me I think in working in the, in the health as a health professional and, and training people and so on, it's just going to give us another, I'm wiping the Nantucket toolkit to get people motivated and moving and having a benchmark is really important I think for us to, well, this is where we started from and hopefully through different health interventions, we can see other results. Is there any way that we can, is there any of those things that are quantified, like what, what people are, you know, that are doing your tests perhaps and then doing different interventions, obviously not as a clinical study, but are you gathering any of the data of the interventions that people are undertaking to change the biological age?

Speaker 5: (37:01)
Let's see. What has it effect? So I mean, we have to be sort of careful about this, right? So that, I mean, the personal information of ours customers is yes. Obviously I can only do so much, right? I mean we're not, we're not trying to but so what I can say, we work with clinics, certain clinics doctors. So the doctors are incorporating this test into part of their medical practice and whether they're advising certain, you know, dietary interventions or different exercise programs or they can use this for their medical practically, I mentioned Metformin earlier. We are working with the group by testing this. So that's something that we, yeah, we can say has had a, yeah, a two. The rate of aging in these, in the samples, the subjects that we've examined. Mmm, yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. So that's got an interesting future too. I mean, what, what are you think, so are there any interventions which have been proven besides a Metformin and growth hormone? Mmm. To actually slow down the aging or to pervasive stop the aging process? Mmm, well that have been proven to be beneficial as it, you know, like lifestyle interventions. So yes, yes, there are. So, but I, I needed qualify that. So this has been clearly shown to occur in laboratory animals, so model research organisms and a lot of these,

Speaker 4: (38:34)
These pathways a

Speaker 4: (38:35)
Evolutionarily shared all the way from, you know, simple East to or complex organisms like fruit flies and more recently into mammals like mice lab, mice rats or even nonhuman primates. So there's clearly potential. Mmm. You know some of these interventions are related to altering metabolic pathways, insulin response. Mmm. Mmm. I think one that's gained a lot of interest in you know, the broader news media is this compound resveratrol. Yes. Resveratrol found in a grapes in higher concentrations, in certain nuts. I'm certain it's been shown to activate certain pathways related to protecting our DNA or protecting our genes and genomes and also influencing that metabolism in certain ways. So in laboratory animals, there's clear evidence to show that aging can be slow to reverse. In humans it's not as clear. So again, it's more difficult to do these types of studies.

Speaker 4: (39:39)
Okay. Ethical and logistical reasons. Yeah. But the Metformin is a hot candidate drug especially because it is well tolerated. So, so this may be something that can be easily prescribed. And individuals we mentioned the study that came out last last fall where the the growth hormone and Metformin combination reverse the aging in this was in a small court of men from the ages of 52 late sixties, I think. Years of age. Mmm. In terms of those are for reversing the aging clock. There's also evidence showing that the clock can be slowed from simple lifestyle changes. So if you think about diet, so it appears that, you know eating more plants plant based foods, so fruits and vegetables. So right carotinoids levels in the blood. You know, indicators of the.

Speaker 4: (40:37)
Okay. Metabolism are associated with slower rates of aging. Interestingly, a fish, actually, those who consume more fish, it seems to have the greatest impact on a slowing the rate of aging. Well, okay. That's interesting, huh? Yeah. Even greater than the vegetarian diets. That's what the data indicates at this time, at least. Right. Also you know, we can look at things that accelerate the aging clock. Mmm. So certain corn oil certain insulin levels a triglyceride levels you know, elevated or, or, or levels that are out of whack or associated with an accelerated aging. So these are indicators of a poor diet. Yup. I think one that's a, everyone's sort of interested to hear or happy to hear is that actually moderate alcohol consumption. It's associated with a slower

Speaker 3: (41:34)
Rate of eating. So, so we have an all glass of red wine with berry in it,

Speaker 4: (41:40)
I think. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. But this has been a also shown to have beneficial effects on heart health. So it's interesting to see that the studies our agreement, you know, coming back, coming at it from different angles, but, you know, finding beneficial health, mental health.

Speaker 3: (41:55)
So the, the things that we sort of intuitively know that exercise lots of fruit and veggies and you know, that type of thing. It can definitely slow down the aging clock. It's an exercise aspect of it as Sierra, any sort of data or omit, it's how much and what types of exercise or anything like that.

Speaker 4: (42:22)
So not that I'm aware of. So not that I'm aware of. But that's, but that's interesting. What you say is, you know, people hear this and they say, okay, great, eat more vegetables. You know, I already knew that. Right. But it's interesting the study, but I think you can see, right. So, okay, yes, vegetables are associated with slow rates of aging. So increase that. So it gives, we can show that in the data, but but what's really interesting about the clock of the state, but if you want, if there was one thing you could pick to slow your rate of aging, actually it's fish, right? So it's, it's a it kinda shows you you know, we can kind of rank these. So what's the most important thing? So, you know, vegetables are important, but actually according to the data fishes is even more important. Mmm. And you knew, and also people that die. While I've been doing vegetables, I've been actively trying to do better in, and so I've already incorporated that, but, well, what else is there that that might be, it might be missing. Oh, so a olive oil seems to be also beneficial. A dietary component. It can be incorporated absolute rate of aging. So, so what the clock does is it's able to quantify these and really pinpoint with some precision what,

Speaker 3: (43:33)
Yeah, yeah. Rather than just one out a feeling as and what we've, you know, at the top, some studies have seen what about ketones and the key she turned on us. Any, any data there on MCT oils or ketone esters or anything like that?

Speaker 4: (43:52)
Again, I'm not familiar with those studies. We haven't conducted any and we're not working with anyone specifically looking at this sort of thing that I'm aware of some. Again, you know, a lot of institutes and clinics are incorporating different things. We don't necessarily know what they're doing. I mean, it could be very well be that, you know, some of these changes are being prescribed or administered in certain way. I simply don't know the answer to that.

Speaker 3: (44:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, fair enough. So this is, you know, to actually get the data to get some concrete data is actually really, really helpful. And strengthening the arguments for reaching the goals and cutting out the, the donuts and the, the the biscuits in the sugar and so on. And, and the more data we have behind that, the beta what I had dr Andrew go Andrews on, on the podcast. We all would go, I'm looking at telling me and like something and NTA aging. Is there any sort of crossover between those sort of areas, like in the anti aging sciences in do you look at it telling me length is or anything like that in these biological tests or are they completely different area of science?

Speaker 4: (45:11)
It is different. It is different. So Tila mirrors have been I think before Horvath and Hanham's studies a few years ago came out showing the power of epigenetic aging assessments tumors were probably the most popular, well, I color test to look at this since then. You know, clearly that these DNA methylation clocks are by far the most accurate, most precise and robust to measure biological aging. Horvath and others tried to kind of assess how this interaction between Tealium or Lang and you know, epigenetic change and they found that they're not measuring the same thing. So they in the biology is they're looking at different things. And you know, I, I think for, you know, telomeres, you know, I just, in my opinion, I, I think they've been Sur surpassed by the power of the, you know, yeah.

Speaker 4: (46:07)
Inherent robustness of looking at epigenetics to assess aging. I think, you know, concrete example of this is so the telomere length, so the longer the telomeres, sort of the slower aging or more youthful, that's, that's the basic idea. And as those shrink, it indicates increased age or advanced age. That's, that's the basic idea. We find that this, you know, completely breaks down. When you look at something like cancer where a hallmark is the ability to increase the length of telomeres to kind of okay. You know, maintain the integrity of cancer cells or tumor size. And if you knew, if you look at it from that perspective, they would look biologically young. If you look at the same type. Okay. Tissue cancer tissue according to the epigenetic clock. I mean, these show very accelerated aging. So it's, it's clear indication of it for health. The telomere tests wouldn't be able to show that at all. You were so good. Sorry. Okay.

Speaker 3: (46:59)
Thats Really you know, emerging area of science that that's, I'm going to be interesting in the next few years to watch. Mmm. Keith, thank you so much for your time today. Is it, I, I think we've, we've, we've covered quite a lot of ground. Do you think there's anything we've missed out that, that people should hear about? In regards to doing, you know, like doing mydnage test can you actually, because we're sitting in New Zealand and obviously a lot of my lessons are in Zealand and Australia. Can you do the test from that far away when you're going to be seeding it in the post?

Speaker 4: (47:33)
Yes. So the test, so I think we're just trying to get the but just logistics, business-wise, just the paperwork in order too. We've gotten a lot of demand in Australia, New Zealand, you know, it should be a broadly. Yeah. Currently we're only offering and North America, Mmm. In Europe. Mmm. Canada, U S and . But we're trying to get to a New Zealand, Austria. That should be soon. So any listeners in New Zealand or thereabouts, that should be available very soon. Technically there's no issue. So the once the kids arrive the blood or urine sample can be mixed with the preservative solution. This is preservation. Yeah. Shipped back to our labs in California at room temperature with no problems.

Speaker 3: (48:22)
Nice. So we should be through that. Still already the tastes, even though you haven't got the laboratories and stuff down here, we came can already, you know, through that and seen it. But look, thank you so much for your time today. I think this is a really interesting area of science. And I'm encouraged people to think about doing these tastes because, you know, I will give you a line in the same tree to motivate you. I think a lot of 'em, you know motivation is a big key to being successful in your, in demons to be better and stronger and be there and plaster and normalize going to good things and tuning the, we're slowing down the clock with tuning back even. So having tastes like this that are available to the public, the weekly is exciting. You know, I think it gives us another thing that we can do that we can then use to help better our lives, you know, as we, as we move forward.

Speaker 4: (49:20)
Yeah. That's the mission of you know, making this test available to the broader, the broader public,

Speaker 3: (49:25)
The more things that are available direct to the public, the there or my opinion, it's not dangerous and you know, but being a bit of a biohacker, obviously I have a bit of a, a boss towards having your own power and making your own decisions. But I think this one is a, you know, it's a no brainer. It costs so obviously, but apart from that, if you you want to try this out I'll have the links in the show notes and case thank you so much for your time today. I wish you well with all your studies and with loved side contact and yeah, very, very interesting conversation today.

Speaker 4: (50:03)
Oh my pleasure. Lisa. It was great to, to speak with you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: (50:07)
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Speaker 1: (50:58)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Geoffrey started off as a computer scientist after graduating from Stanford but after creating a successful start-up that sold to Groupon, a public company he decided to change the trajectory of career and used his incredible intellect to learn more about optimising human performance at first concentrating on enhancing cognitive performance through Nootropic stacks and then delving deep into the science behind the keto diet, intermittent fasting, metabolism, ketone esters and supplements.

He is the founder of the company H.V.N.M (Health via modern nutrition) that licenses the world's most advanced keto ester developed in conjunction Professor Kieran Clarke of the University of Oxford to develop H.V.M.N. Ketone Ester, the world's first ketone ester drink, based on Prof. Clarke and Dr. Richard Veech's (NIH) seminal work on ketone esters and exogenous ketones. Geoffrey is a serial entrepreneur. He previously was CEO and co-founder of Glassmap Inc., a software technology company backed by YCombinator, a top venture capital group In this conversation, Lisa and Geoffrey discuss the power of intermittent fasting, the keto diet, exogenous ketones, the future of biotech and the development of biomarker tracking devices along with a host of other biohacking topics of discussion. Learn more about living longer, healthier lives. You can find out more about Geoffrey Woo at https://hvmn.com/team/geoffrey-woo and his supplement line at https://hvmn.com/ He is also active on instagram @Geoffreywoo You can also subscribe to Geoffreys podcast "HVNM" which Lisa highly recommends. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid?
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These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.
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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Hi Everybody Lisa Tmati here and welcome back to this week's edition of pushing the limits, elevating human performance and helping you optimize your health and sporting performance. This week I have a very interesting man on the show by the name of Geoffrey woo. Now Jeffrey is in San Francisco and Silicon Valley. He was a computer scientist who graduated out of Stanford who then made a startup company that he sold to a public company way back when he was just 23 years old. And then he decided to change tech after having such so much success in that area. He turned his considerable intelligence towards bio hacking and approving and optimizing cognitive performance and now physical performance as well. He has a company now that is called HV him in and he concentrates in the area of keto, the keto diet ketosis ketone esters which is a really interesting area to be involved in.

Speaker 2: (01:20)
He's also very interested in biomarkers and continuous tracking of biomarkers and net technology. And he's really at the cutting edge of what is happening out there in the biohacking world and optimizing performance. So our conversation goes in all sorts of directions. It's a really, really interesting deep dive into what's coming around the corner. What's happening now. We also dive deep into the subject of the keto diet and ketone esters versus keto salts exogenous ketosis versus doing the keto diet it's uses for changing your metabolism and becoming a fed adapted and you know, real deep dive into all those good top topics. So I hope you enjoy the show. And before we get underway, just a reminder, hop on over to our website at lisatamati.com check out our flagship programs. We've got our online run training Academy running hot where you can optimize your running, get faster, get stronger without burnout and injuries and have my 25 years of knowledge to help you get there.

Speaker 2: (02:30)
Along with my business partner, Neil Wagstaff, who's been my coach for over a decade and who absolutely saved my bacon. So check that out. If you want to improve your running, whether you're doing your very first five fiveK or whether you're doing your hundreds 100 miler,uwe can help you. And we also have our epigenetics testing program, which we are super excited about. This is a program that we've been running now for the last two years with our clients and it is absolutely next level and giving you personalized about your health and uhow to optimize your abilities,uinsights that we've never before head. The last program we have is the mindset you, which is our mental toughness and mindset Academy,uwhich is an online course and how to develop all the resilience and mental toughness skulls that we'll see you right in life and help you in all aspects.

Speaker 2: (03:22)
Now I also have my book relentless coming out in March the 11th. It's available now for preorder. This is my third book and it's been one hell of a mission to get it out. So I'm very glad that this baby is nearly born. This is the story of bringing my mum back after her major aneurysm four years ago, and all the protocols, the, the therapies that I use, but most importantly, the mindset and the approach that I talked to this huge, huge challenge of bringing her back from the brink of death. So make sure you head on over to Lisatamati.com Hit the shop button and preorder that now, right over to the show with Jeffrey. Woo.

Speaker 3: (04:01)
Well, how everybody needs to tell me the here now. I am sitting with Jeffrey. Woo Jeffrey. Good morning. How are you?

Speaker 4: (04:09)
Good morning. I know you're dialing from New Zealand and it's still morning in San Francisco, California. So a proper good morning.

Speaker 3: (04:16)
It does, but you are living in the past. So you're a vet. We need something else behind us or anyone else behind us. So I always find that quite weird, but very, very cool that technology allows us to connect Cindy. Now Jeffrey is an amazing man. Oh, you listeners out there who don't know Jeffrey, you assume. Well do. Mmm. He's a, I'd love you to go into a little bit of your background. You're free. You've had an incredible stat life. You were a Stanford computer scientists, but he's gone in a completely different direction, but you've also had a startup company that you've sold on to a public company. I believe ahm what really interested me, I'd love to know a little bit about your background and how the heck you go from computer science to doing what you threw out because that's really a big leap fish, shall we say. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah,

Speaker 4: (05:11)
Thank you for the very kind introduction there. I think it may look like a large leap from a academic perspective, but really the way I think about my career and my, you know, my life's work at this point is really looking at systems thinking and engineering thinking and applying that approach towards different domains. So obviously you can use engineering techniques to look at computing as a way to solve competing problems. And about five, six years ago I started becoming more and more interested in how do you apply some of that same systems thinking that systems training towards the human system. Right. And I think that in one way you can look at health and wellness and the performance medical sports physiology space as obviously quite quantitative. But I wouldn't say that it's relatively bottoms or maybe like tops down in terms of trying to find an approach.

Speaker 4: (06:19)
And I think from an engineering perspective, how do we really develop a first principles approach to really understand the quantitative approach, how to optimize, optimize these, these outcomes. So to me, Mmm, a little bit about like the sort of the personal insurances that I realized that a lot of my smartest friends in Silicon Valley where we're applying their big brains to making robots better, making AI better, essentially. That might be a nice way to put it. But most people in Silicon Valley are helping people click, right? Like they are essentially optimizing and targeting people based on their previous experiences. How do I drive traffic and $5 and I was in that industry. And how to mobile app companies so that coming into Groupon, Mmm. And that gave me a little bit of a perhaps a luxury to just think about what I really want to think about and work on. And I thought that human performance was just the next frontier. And that got me down the rabbit hole of being very plugged into the biohacking community. So very much self experimenting and learning just glucose ladders but measures two now starting and running a company called HVM N which stands for health BMR nutrition. Where are we create products and technologies that support a human performance. And you probably have heard of our ketone Ester drink, which a very interesting piece of technology.

Speaker 3: (07:45)
Yeah, I was really excited to hear about that and we'll get into that later because you are a very big expert on ketosis and Keto and everything. Can you tell me basically and I just found it really fascinating. Was there a personal health process or someone in the family or anything that you decided you wanted to go into the spice? So it was just purely I want to optimize my moments in the performance of people. In general.

Speaker 4: (08:10)
Yeah. Actually the ladder. And I know that many people in the community of what I've talked to, literally thousands of people in the broader community. I feel like most people make very drastic life changes when there is a crisis. There's a health, and I have to admit, I was just fortunately in a very different space where I was just healthy and I was wondering can I even be any better? So is very much very focused on the optimization perspective. But now in retrospect, I think it's very much the same problem. Yeah. We're all on the spectrum of being sick or being a deficient state and we all want to move into other directions to be better. And our starting location on this section can be a little bit different, right? We can some healthier than others. Some are more deficient than others, but we all want to move in that same factor of being better.

Speaker 4: (09:01)
Mmm. So to me, my initial interests started off in cognitive performance. And now it's just essentially based on this notion that humanity has become more and more focused on cognitive output as a way to create our likelihood. It's whereas 2000 years ago our physical output was our primary mode to play to Libby. And my interest there was that especially in this new economy, there's a very much interesting sort of winner take all dynamic. If you can pick out a few more percent of cognitive performance kid creativity that has a disproportionate leverage in terms of the outcome that you get well economically as well as amongst competition. So my initial interest was focused on cognitive performance and as I started more and more new tropics, Mmm. It became kind of this rabbit hole diving deeply into metabolism. Mmm. The entry point of nootropics led to fasting and I was, I would say one of the, you know, early are people on the wave of fasting about four or five years ago or started experiment fasting.

Speaker 4: (10:17)
And then that really became a trend in Silicon Valley in the larger work. Now, intermittent fasting is like a very common parlance term that of people talk about. It was very interesting that you know, four or five years ago, if you Google fast people that I live in, maybe not drastically, but it was just like, Oh, [inaudible] for few days, that seems kind of insane. Is that even possible? Intermittent fasting led to kitchen diets and w it was became like, because as you look at the mechanism of why fasting works, fasting basically the pleats are glycogen into glucose reserves and it forces your body to convert fat into ketosis in the kitchen. That was a very interesting way to also in Dutch produce ketosis. And there was a very interesting, again, relatively early in the phase of I would say the influx of publication research going on in the QJ today at the time, you know, more of a nascent field.

Speaker 4: (11:22)
And then as I'm looking at the ketogenic diet, like, I mean, interested in things like ketone masters or any of the other enzymes just keeps on how can you [inaudible] induce a very rapid details ketosis in some sense. It was just like a very crazy journey from being a Stanford computer scientist and a software entrepreneur to now being the human performance space. But if you just look at the five, six year journey of looking at the problems of that I was interested in, and then just pursuing and digging and researching and going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole, it kind of all makes sense in retrospect. And I think that's kind of the fun journey of life. I don't know if you thought that you would have a podcast five years ago. Right. And just like, same with me, I didn't know no conversations with people around the world about health, you know, world champion athletes. But that's really, you know, when I have a bit of time to reflect and just really the beauty of life, enjoy the journey.

Speaker 3: (12:20)
Oh absolutely. And I think, I mean I'm the same. I've gone from being an athlete to now, you know, specializing in brain rehabilitation and writing books and doing podcasts. And I don't think we should limit ourselves to, because we learned something at university or at school and it set for us for life. I think that's the beauty of the time that we live on that we can go like this for richer, you know experience, you know, and, and and you bring a completely different lanes too. The health side of it. That, and I don't have, you know, that you're [inaudible] amazing brain that you've bought too, you know, from being in computer science and then applying that sort of modeling [inaudible] to the human body. And and I've heard a few people obviously along these lines site. There's so much similarities and I think there are, it's exciting to think of it in that, in that way.

Speaker 3: (13:16)
So you go into the ketosis in the, in the keto diet because this is that's something that's very, very interesting for many of my lessons for sure. So I come from, you know, an extreme endurance background where you're doing like mega long races. And when I started out, it was all you had to be having calories and carbs all the time. And you know, the high points of my career are you eating up to 10,000 calories a day? Two, yeah. Move, got fuel yourself. And if you didn't get those calories and you've hit the wall and now, you know, there were quite a few Phanatic for the athletes. What's your take on, you know, like with extreme endurance, like doing ultra marathons and so on? What are the, what are those bandages and disadvantages that you would say? I mean, I know that you, you've done a half marathon yourself or, or a couple I think. Yup. You get Running sort of analogy. What is your take on, on, okay. The use of oxygen per year per unit. I, I, and the stain is much, much higher when you're on keto, but I've never actually tried it when I was competing. So I'm really interested to see what you want. Well, it's our own map.

Speaker 4: (14:29)
Yeah. I think it's nuance and I would say I don't think it needs to be overly complicated. So the way I think about it is that there's perhaps I would say two categories of athletes. There's, I would say the category athletes are looking to the world championship caliber level and looking to optimize performance perhaps at the detriment of longevity and lifespan and health. And there's a second category of athletes that are more lifestyle. They want to, let me just, let me just put, excuse me. Yeah. And the second category of athletes that are more lifestyle and amateur, right? So I think even at that level there's different recommendations and I would even slice up the categorization in another way. There are training periods and the competition periods. Right? And I think for endurance athletes, that's, and again, athletes are more serious. That's like a very, it's a known a practice, right? You guys are training your psych, your training towards, no, even with that there's like literally before different subsets of talking about the same thing. Right. And I think within the broader common discussion, it's very easy to say, Oh, you should have carbo. And it's like, well, are you voting for training? Are you trying to win the marathon? Are you trying to like have a good day?

Speaker 4: (16:04)
I think simplification, you already missed my little subtleties in those four quadrants that we already subsets segmenting out. Mmm. And then if we just know specifically for ultra endurance or highly anaerobic activities that is a very different performance profile or it's power lifting, etc. Yeah. Mmm. So a traditional best practices is the assumption of art, bloating and there is good reason why one wants to have a lot of carbohydrate reserves and then you constantly supplement sugar or gurus or, yeah. Let me think as you, as you compete. Mmm. Now the ketogenic diets and being more fat adapted is becoming theoretically and the research perspective has always been interesting and I think within the last few years there are now a world champion ship world record breaking results that are being created using fat adapted athletes. Again, there's like the randomized controlled trial world which are done on serious athletes, not necessarily like you are the best person in the world, right?

Speaker 4: (17:17)
Like there's a difference there and Zach bitter is an interesting case study of work. He just recently the world record for the a hundred mile Ryan, very, very ultra endurance. I think he also broke the world record for the 24 hour distance cupboard and Mmm. The whole notion [inaudible] and he's a sort of a fat adapted athlete. So what, what so, so I think like, so even so, so the basically would say that the study research is based on serious athletes and there is good results or decent evidence that being fully keto adapted is comparable to being a carb driven athlete. Now the question is if you want a world record and performing performance, how would you protocol against that? And if you actually talked to Zach better, he will take carbs for the actual performance. But in the training blocks you will train fat, adaptive or fasted. That's an interesting subtlety that I don't think it's covered really well. So when we talk to athletes and when we work with athletes people really understand that you guys, your training blocks your physical activity alters over time. And I think what will be the emerging trend is that you will cycle, you knew your nutrition along with the training blocks to optimize the peak for a certain performance. I think that is implement at the very, very top levels and I think that will be translate at two lower. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (18:58)
The next one very interesting point. That cyclical nature of ketosis or you know, I like to be in ketosis constantly can be, can present its own issues. Context.

Speaker 4: (19:08)
Okay. Yeah. I mean there's no reason to think that it is necessarily bad, but there has been an interesting research coming out of the buck Institute showing that a cyclical ketogenic diet has similar health span impact then on permanent kitchen and dining on an animal, on a mouse model and a rat or rodent model. So this is really, I was at the cusp of cutting edge science. I think some of these answers are still going to be unpacked. And I think just from a public perspective, if I were to Kim like guidance and I just want to make it like a punchy resolution. So like just kind of like just mentioned one of the nuances that if I were looking at endurance performance, I would consider doing fat adapted training fasted or using fat as a fuel in early parts of my aerobic training block.

Speaker 4: (20:07)
And then as you get closer and closer to performance day, I will start reintroducing carbohydrate and then on performance day I would have a blend of both. Like he's like exotic, just keep telling me like ketone Ester and on race day itself. So basically on race that you want to fuel as much substrate as possible and in the preparation to that performance day, you train and maximize the metabolic flexibility of your body. You want your ketone metabolism to be high, you want your fat oxidation to be high and you also want to be able to use carbohydrates.

Speaker 3: (20:41)
Okay, so you need a ball flexibility. Can you explain to the listeners a little bit, what is that like so how hard is it become fat adapted and what is the power with your ketone? Is that your company producers compete to an MCT oil Im sorry as a two part question, but or you know, your normal sort of exogenous ketosis, you know, compete to the level of the ketone ISTA yeah, yeah,

Speaker 4: (21:09)
Yeah. So I'll answer the first part around metabolic flexibly. I think that's definitely one of the buzz words being thrown around in the community at this point. And it's really a simple concept in the sense that it's your body's ability to metabolize, which means like use as energy the different macronutrients or substrates that exist. So what are, what are macronutrients? There's simply just food stuffs that have calories, right? Like carbs have some calorie count that has some calorie value and putting out some calorie value. Something like or caffeine there like micronutrients. They don't have calorie sources, but they support metabolism or, you know, caffeine is not really my patients. It's, you know, blocks and things that you feel less tired. Right. But it's like, you know, people talk about that as like an energy. It's not necessarily an actual calorie substance. It's just like, yeah. Tricks your brain into feeling less tired.

Speaker 3: (22:06)
Yeah.

Speaker 4: (22:07)
Mmm.

Speaker 4: (22:08)
So what is it about flexibility? Well, when, especially in a standard Western diet context, we eat a lot of carbs. So that essentially trains your body to be really good at carbs as a feel substrate. So all the enzymes that relate to glucose metabolism are upregulated and your body isn't really using the metabolic pathways to process fat or ketosis. And it's dotted. Those pathways are done regulated. So if you actually look at like fat oxidation Bates, you can actually measure this in people. Mmm. People that are less metabolically flexible will burn less fat as thesis versus someone that is more math, metabolically flexible.

Speaker 3: (22:54)
Wow. Another reason too, you know, trial, the cycling that links into ketosis,

Speaker 4: (23:00)
Right? So you can, you know, so you can do what's called like respiratory quotient test, so you can breathe. Mmm. You know, you breathe in and out and then you measure the ratio of CO2 and OTU as you ramp up intensity. And people that are quite metabolically efficient can inflect quite fit and burn fat to a very, very high level. Whereas people that are less Mmm. Metabolically flexible and not very fit, they instantly turn into using anaerobic or glucose as energy as opposed to being able to use that. Yeah. So so when we say metabolic flexibility, it's the ability for your body to use and burn all these substrates at the same time. Mmm. And and I think I think that touches upon like so much other sort of cascading into like in talk about insulin resistance. Yeah. It's really just touches this whole span of how metabolism works. I think just in the cons of this specific topic, it's just essentially the notion that you can switch fuel sources relatively efficiently.

Speaker 3: (24:11)
So if, if you know, I'm going to go on a keto diet, a lot of people have, you know, the keto flu and then they give up because it's pretty hard. Horrible. Mmm Hmm. Does something like keto Ester that the product you have or even exogenous ketosis of any form speed you up to get you into ketosis? And does it help you avoid the KIDO flow or not?

Speaker 4: (24:34)
Yeah, so this is actually a good bridge. I didn't answer your question. It's like what is the difference between other and goddess ketosis? I think that's like a nice segue or transition. So when people go through the keto flu, that's essentially a sign of metabolic flexibility. So why is that? Well, when you suddenly cut off your carbohydrates, again, your body is used to using carbohydrates as a fuel substrate. So when your body runs out of carbs, it's like it's in an energy deficit. It's like, Oh, I'm really hungry. Like we're not getting enough fuel. What's happening there is that your body isn't as efficient at converting fats and oxides and fat and mobilizing fat and mobilizing and turning that find the ketosis. So there's this deficit period for it. You have low carbohydrate, low glucose,

Speaker 3: (25:24)
Okay,

Speaker 4: (25:25)
Any of low ketosis at the same time, you have low energy substrate available in your system so you feel tight. Thank you. Mmm. So the idea is if you are metabolically flexible, so like you know, I've done a lot of fascinate. I eat fairly low carb and I'll do cyclical blocks of Hito aye can generate ketosis relatively quickly, so I don't really get it. Yeah, I like the adaptation for period for me it's like quite quick. And now the question is, can you use exotic as ketosis to help bridge that energy gap? Well, essentially that's been one of the popular use cases of his audience. Ketosis, right? Mmm. I would say the nuances that it doesn't increase the ability for your body to produce its own ketones. Actually nice gap where you have low glucose, your body is still trying to ramp up ketone production.

Speaker 4: (26:27)
Let me just give you some support of having like a source of energy. It's not carbohydrate in the interim that makes that transition period a little bit smoother. That would be the application of massages. ketosis. Now let's answer the initial question. What are ketosis? What are the types? What's interesting about ketone Ester? Mmm, let's define what ketosis are in the first place. Well, ketosis or what I consider a fourth micronutrient interesting thesis there is that, well, you have fat putting carbohydrate. They have calories and their metabolic substrate, well, ketosis have the same exact both fallen, they match the definition, it has calories and it is a fuel for metabolism. Mmm. But you can't really, it's not fun and really in huddle, almost a normal food. So people have been trying to synthesize Exxon, just ketosis that you can consume each directly. So you can kind of really get new food group here.

Speaker 4: (27:32)
You actually MCT oils, what are they? MCT, medium chain triglycerides are fatty acids that readily convert into ketosis. So the fact, but it's a relatively efficient fat that converts into through your liver, through ketogenesis into ketosis. Caprylic acid or ch is the most efficient a fatty acids that converts that into beta. Hydroxybutyrate. you can, it's eight carbon eight carbon linked chain. And then if you look at PHP, it's four carbon. So it's like a very nice size fatty acid that readily converts with a pH. D ahm so what does the HV well, what does ketosis will? He, one's a scribe. This fourth macronutrient and the main form of a key talent is this specific molecule called BHB or beta hydroxybutyrate. I just think they may be HP. So it's not quite a mouthful. Mmm. Now if you can take a BHB is the end ketone that you want, can you deliver that in the food form?

Speaker 4: (28:40)
And that's where you have things like you don't ask sitters or ketone salts that you might've seen. So these are just different formulations or different ways that liver beta hydroxy be [inaudible] in a consumable form. The very cool thing about ketone esters, however, is that it's a very highly efficient way to deliver a lot of ketones without any GI issues typically associate with ketones salts. So if you actually look at, Mmm. The space, I would say like, there's like things like MCT oils. Okay. You know, that has its place. It's valuable, right? It's like a nice form of fat that can refer in the ketones, but it's not an, it's just keep telling, right. It's not eating beta hydroxybutyrate directly. And then we look at Exondys ketones. There's primarily, he don't insults and then ketone esters. And what he consults are essentially hydroxybutyrate bound to minerals like sodium, potassium. I'll see the, so we oftentimes

Speaker 5: (29:42)
You look at a label of a ketone salt, it's like a ton of minerals. It's like a hundred percent of your life recommend daily allowance salt. Yeah. Small drink. You know, so you know, there's arguments whether it, you know, people need more salt anyways, I think that's a different rabbit hole. But regardless, I think from a performance perspective, there's often GI issues. We have so much salts and that is a real concern from a performance perspective. A ketone esters its bound to ketone precursors. So it's just a lot more sure way to deliver ketones and yeah, without the salts [inaudible] I can imagine if you've got a lot of salts and minerals and the ketone salt as an athlete, for example. Good. Cool. It's traveling and endurance. Yeah. example Okay. Okay. So that's that six dodginess keto. And so can you tie, so the one that you have at your company that's been developed over like I think 20 years from a time of all the basement money going into this, that the race H money is this much more powerful than, so, you know, just for the lay person then then buying an MCT oil, it's your rate pay times rather than a precarious or or having to go through the liver to be turn that into hopefully ketones.

Speaker 5: (31:13)
Yes. Yeah. So yeah, this is measurable and you can like do this like with your own finger and if you actually measure ketones, do a finger stick, typically like an MCT oil will bump your beta hydroxy Peter your D levels to maybe 0.5 bump. And with the [inaudible] or we can, you'll typically see up to 5.0 millimoles. So literally 10 times wow. More ketones delivered. That's in a consumable form. Mmm. Does that negate the need to be on a keto diet when you have ketosis? Can you get away with eating carbs? That would be the optimal. Yeah. So that's like an interesting area of discussion. And research some people. So some would say yes, I think it's nuance. So basically it's like what do you want on a kitchen? I think there is some value of carbohydrate restriction, carbohydrate restriction, but a lot of the benefits of a kitchen dining is having ketones present to be metabolized both as a metabolic substrate and as well as a signaling molecule. [inaudible]. So the question is how much of the benefit of a kid doing diet is from the carbohydrate restriction alone and how much of a benefit is from the ketones and both of substrate and a signaling molecule. And that's really an area of research.

Speaker 4: (32:40)
My you know none I have no data to support either direction. Is that Mmm. There's some subset of the value that's delivered by fastener kitchen guys that comes to record themselves. Yeah. So can you get some, most of the benefit of a kitchen guide or facet? It's not just ketone. I think so.

Speaker 3: (33:05)
That would be the.

Speaker 3: (33:07)
So that will be interesting to see how that research unfolds in the next year. You were telling me right. That would be, you know, cause obviously the keto diet is quite a difficult diet for many people to adhere to. Especially the all team. And what about the whole triglycerides problem? When people are on a keto diet, what's your take on, on the negative sides of, of keto?

Speaker 4: (33:33)
Mmm, usually you, yeah, so the lipid like the basically is your blood lipid panels is something that people tend to look at when you're looking at, you know, high fat diets, right. So you know, people look at triglycerides as you mentioned, but also LDL, low density lipoprotein cholesterol and HDL high density. Mmm. So the typical concern is that if you eat such a high fat diet and audio thats well lot and that could be a reasonable concern. So there's some interesting data that that perhaps suggests that if you look at LDL alone, it's not really a great predictor of cardiovascular disease risk. You should really look at the trial of LDL, HDL, triglycerides all together. So typically in a well formulated huge diet, you may see an elevation of LDL, but you see high HDL have low triglycerides. And then the question is, and again, I don't want to be giving medical advice, I'm not a medical doctor, but there is an interesting stream of research going on now where if you look at a cohort of people with high LDL, which maybe bad, you know, high HDL and low triglycerides the association with cardiovascular disease risk disappears.

Speaker 3: (34:58)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (35:00)
The question is then, is LDL alone a great predictor of cardiovascular disease risks? I think that's again, an open area of research. I think again, just again from a systems thinking perspective you need to look at the whole system. It's kind of arbitrary to just choose one thing and be like, okay, you have one thing that's going to give you a disease. So it's like, yes, that might be correlated but me to understand the full system. Yep. And that's where I think there's a lot of interesting research.

Speaker 3: (35:32)
Yeah. And it would make sense to me that, you know, you do need to look at the ratios of things. Like I, it's, it's looking at

Speaker 5: (35:38)
The whole system of things and you know the old way of thinking that cholesterol was bad for you, period as, as really not, not correct. I think, you know, now we've moved on from that sort of idea that that isn't the way. Yeah. They just like complicated and like very nuanced I think. I think people want that headline. I mean, how many times have you seen eggs are good? Yeah. It seems like it's literally like it flip flops every single day. Yes. And I think that just shows you that nutrition is very complicated. People have different genetic baselines. People respond to food differently. Yes. Yeah. To me, I don't want to be overly prescriptive on everyone should eat like, again for me, engineer and meet us. Okay. Like self-experimentation you should really measure the response is yourself. When I see my own glucose numbers and I see my own blood lipid profile, when I do these different types of diets, I know what works for me. Supply. And that ultimately is what matters. Like it doesn't matter what the randomized controlled trial says for a population of like men that are age 25 through 30 in a U S college, the people that are being studied, right? Like there's a reasonable critique on the selection sample [inaudible] what all the science is done on, right? Most clinical trials are not unwomen no, no. Well done.

Speaker 5: (37:16)
Okay. It's really hard to run science. I understand why people want to like reduce the very variables. I think it's like [inaudible] the, again, the mechanisms that you can derive from the literature and then confirm it with yourself. That's ultimately, I think the general literature. And then how does it actually apply to you as N equals one. And this is, this guy's nice segue into your stance as an advocate for smart regulation, for human enhancements and in our ability to take control of our own. You know, like a lot of biohackers now around the planet. And I include myself in this, that we believe that we have the right to control their own bodies and we, Oh, I'm not prepared to give up my control what I have in my own house. [inaudible] The local doctor. [inaudible] No, and I think it's, it's important that we start to take some responsibility because we've also had, you know, in our culture, in an SSO, I'd say the opinion, the doctor knows everything and I don't have it.

Speaker 5: (38:26)
Right. Question to experiments to understand. And you know, I, I mentioned to you before the journey I've been on with my mum and I've, you know, peer shape. Did we say from those experiences, I, I now want to be [inaudible] in control as I possibly can be. Obviously I don't have access to everything. I would love to have access to. Mmm. But I want to, I want to have the right to be able to try things on my own body and to be able to experiment and to understand, set people, understand that it's the responsibility, their own health into their own to do your own research. We live in a time that we differ with we, we've got access to two minds like yours and experiences like yours and the cutting edge science and the latest, we don't have the sizzle one person's opinion from a local who tried to 25 years ago. Yeah. [inaudible]

Speaker 5: (39:37)
Aye. 100% agree with everything you just stated there. I think you put it quite nicely. But do you want to just, I guess make Cognits I don't think healthcare system or the specific, the individual clinician is the enemy that they're trying to do their best. And those are, I would say like, I don't think anyone is excited about the healthcare system. Well, I think the underlying point. And so I think I've talked a lot of doctors and I think there's, I think everyone is trying to do their best. I don't think anyone is individually. No, but I think the point that it really is an underlying point is that people should be self-empowered take agency of their own health and happiness. I think that's a really the most important point because you care about your own health more than anyone else. Yeah. I mean it's just like, yeah, you're a doctor like cares about you, but he has his own problem.

Speaker 5: (40:38)
She might have a, you know, family issues with her husband and a hundred other patients to worry about. Yeah, that's fine. But you, you are living with your body. You are living with your own health and just like you wouldn't absolutely do business deal or buy a house or buy a car without research. How, why would you not take that same level of research? Important medical procedures or lifestyle choices, spiritual and health. So to me it's just not even like challenging that healthcare system. Just like hello. You care about your health the most. You have the biggest stake in your own health. Yeah. Oftentimes we're just asked to just be passive in our own health. And that seems so backwards given that you spent like 20 hours online searching the latest launch of a computer and gadget. Yeah. Change your change or nutrition change, take medication and you're just like, Mmm.

Speaker 5: (41:38)
Hiking up. Yeah. Just pass it again, I think, and I think basically my sense of the future is that information is being more and more decentralized. I think successful doctors will have a much more collaborative relationship. Mmm. And ultimately we are the buyer. We are the customer in this relationship. I think there will be a world where it becomes much more collaborative. Like these are my specific concerns. Can you address, these are my goals, this my science position. I want to understand and take a little bit of a self-responsibility here. Rather than do annual checkup, he'd see me for 15 minutes and I'm on my way with a couple little pills. Right? Like I don't think that's going to work anymore. No, it can't work anymore.

Speaker 5: (42:33)
Well, you're also on the cutting edge. You're in Silicon Valley. You see a lot of the biotech stuff that's coming in the future. I listened to a speech that you did on [inaudible] the feature of five tickets and where you see this going, expanding Cuban capabilities. And I was just like, wow, really? Mmm. [inaudible] What is coming down the road? Can you give us a little bit of a sense of what you think is coming as far as what and the size? What else? Yeah, it does some exciting and some scary things in the future. Yeah, I think my framework here is that again, just sort of the engineering hat on. If you can't measure it, you can't optimize it. I think that we will get much more are available biomarker data on our overall system. So I think as I mentioned, if you have a continuous glucose monitor, no, there is a very nice device too.

Speaker 5: (43:38)
Again, track your blood sugar continuously over time. No, I know there's, you know, I love to attract much more biomarkers, right? I need a big companies looking at it, looking at the space. So I think phase one or step one is that we'll have Oh, passive data stream across all the important ball markers readily at our fingertips. Like what could you have, not just a continuous glucose level? Well, why not have continuous ketone levels but not have confused insulin levels? Want to track your LDL HDL and triglycerides over time. I think this is one thing, you know, with a strong quantitative mathematics background, I think biology is the built on snapshots, one blue draw, and that's what we base everything on. But we're literally dynamic systems with flux with flow.

Speaker 4: (44:32)
These things change a lot. And I think

Speaker 3: (44:36)
[Inaudible]

Speaker 4: (44:36)
Literally, if I eat a ton of fat that day before a blood draw or I fast the day before a blood trail,

Speaker 3: (44:44)
Yeah, you've got to be completely different.

Speaker 4: (44:47)
We need to understand the actual flux and slopes of all these changes rather than just like do science on snapshots. Right? So I think it's like physics. It's like you're taking, you're doing physics with looking at a planet move every year versus, okay, what if we can attract telescopes, the movement of the plants, we can actually model this much better. So I think from step one, like we're going to have much more available real street, real time streams of data. Mmm. I think once we have that real time passive data stream, we'll be able to have a much more personalized recommendations and protocols for people.

Speaker 3: (45:26)
Mmm. I think we all do. We notice. Yeah. Yep.

Speaker 4: (45:30)
I like you like certain things differently than other people and you respond to things differently. Other people, there was a big metabolism paper publish it. Probably not true three years ago. Banana to me, my response. But you might be able to tolerate it. Yeah. And it totally makes sense, right? If like my ancestors ate bananas and your answer says made apples, like there's going to be an verbalize world and we're just eating a bunch of like fake bananas and fig apples. It sends a reason. It will have different responses to that kind of input. Mmm. So, given that we have the data streams, we can actually now and build time instantly adjust our diet or nutrition or protocol or exercise or sleep to match actually.

Speaker 3: (46:18)
Okay. Is optimal for our four ad thing. Yeah. I mean we, we do an ad company AP genetic testing and we look at the genetics. Yeah. Mike half of people and have the personalized recommendations. Oh. Based on the work of a Dr. Albert, you're rolling from Italy. I'm looking at for being different on different science disciplines and distilling it into some Mmm. Reports that we can take and then have an insight as coaches and as health coaches to be able to personalize to, to at agree at this stage. It'll get better and better as time goes on. What times of the day, you know, you chronobiology what your genetic, your ancestry is to how you going to, how you develop them in the womb, you know. Mmm. And there are all these different layers that is giving us as coaches an insight into our athletes and our clients that we knew made before forehead. And this is only going to grow, you know, and I'm excited about that. Firstly is that is a coach because we're seeing much better results now. Yeah. You know, you're trying to, two athletes are the same. No, I had in the same training and one will get massive

Speaker 5: (47:30)
Results and the other one doesn't. And you're like, why you lying to us? You're not doing the stuff, you know, that's actually, no, they just, I'm really excited about all the tracking stuff. I'd love to get a constant glucose monitor. I think you're exactly right. I feel like oftentimes we talk to doctors, they'd like don't believe their patients. Yes. Like literally trying to pull up. That's right. Establish the doctor patient relationship a little bit. I mean, again, it's not to say doctors are not trying to do their best. I think it's like, I would say I would say let's just empower ourselves and learn more so we can have a productive conversation with primary practitioner. And then they're just like, kind of like, you know, I see coming around the corner is that like, you'll have more and more interesting technologies that are drive inputs into human performance.

Speaker 5: (48:35)
She don't ask her other, other exonerees ketones are very interesting. It's a new way to deliver soap fit into our bodies and signal different things. Mmm. Interesting. Compounds tap into longevity pathways. Right? And I think we're understanding the systems biology of humans much, much better. No, it gives us an ability to, maybe we can push certain inputs in a way that maps to a performance profile that we want. And again, like, and that can be different for different people, right? Like maybe if I'm obsessed with health span, I could be different from, I want to win an Olympic gold medal next year. Definitely coming from an F, you know, lytic background where, you know, push my mind to the limits. It wasn't about longevity at that stage, you know you can do a lot of damages and ask that you can be fit and unhealthy.

Speaker 5: (49:32)
Which is which is also a [inaudible]. But if you're an athlete, you've got to be healthy. Well, actually, no, you can be quite unhealthy, but yeah. And now as an, you know, getting, getting older and getting a little bit wiser and looking at longevity and wanting to have health span over a longer period of time, I've changed my whole approach to the way I try and in the way. And I think that that's a healthy progression too, to move in. So you said that, know I'm looking at being able to do what I want to at 19. Oh, I've [inaudible] 105 I believe. Yeah. Be completely broken and burnt out. Yeah. Which I've down in the past and which I see a lot of athletes [inaudible] okay. And, and having this information provides, gosh, when I started doing ultra marathons 25 something years ago, we didn't even about electrolytes for crying out loud, you know.

Speaker 5: (50:30)
And, and now of course, we bought whole lot more things at our fingertips and we can, we can see the improvements in performance over the last few years with extreme endurance athletes. Like, thanks. Mmm. It's only gonna [inaudible] yeah. The limits of human performance aren't even breached. Yes. You know, and that's without tapping into the whole mind side of it. Yeah. Oh, so another fascinating side. Mmm. I just wanted to pivot and then I know we're going to wrap up, but Mmm. You've also gone a pretty deep dive into Nutro nootropics. Hi Brian. Enhancing supplements in a smart drugs and things like that. Having some of the family with a massive brain, Brian and Dre, I'm very interested, eight year old take on what some of the great nootropics for people who Mmm. Maybe him brain injuries, maybe hitting towards dementia, Alzheimer's that sort of thing.

Speaker 5: (51:30)
I know you're not a medical doctor, but what is your title and some of the exciting compounds or even the ketones for, for things like to meet turnouts farmers. What is your take on that? Yeah, I think it's a very based in the sense that there's a lot of things that are preferred to have any Tropin benefits, but you really need to look and drill down into specific compounds and then judge the evidence of each specific compound on your specific use case. Right. So you know, when we developed our nootropic supplements, we looked at specific compounds that have randomized controlled trials on healthy humans and showing no benefits cause it's going to get benefit for those use cases. But oftentimes things that can improve on performance in healthy human, this monkeys are an improved performance. People that are efficient. So when you extend the scope a little bit evidence pool, it gets a little bit even better.

Speaker 5: (52:34)
And when you're looking at eventually, hopefully hoping people that have my own cognitive impairment and trying to prevent decline and move that more towards awesome. The direction. So obviously, you know, you know, the products that we sell, you know, we think are very, very high quality and how the robust evidence, so we have rise with the Copa which has, you know, solid book amount of evidence around randomized controlled trials on specific doses, boosting longterm memory, et cetera. So that's pretty exciting. If you actually talk to the principal investigator who's actually a professor concert, I believe he's at the university of Swinburne. No excited about that class of compounds and I believe it's still do not research in that area. Mmm. No, I think ketones are also like an interesting area of research in terms of driving cognitive a benefit. Mmm. The mechanism of action there is that glucose costs the blood brain barrier, but also the ketones.

Speaker 5: (53:43)
And you might've heard of Alzheimer's nickname type three diabetes. Yeah. And the thesis there is that part of the problem with Alzheimer's is that there's a glucose uptake disfunction where it's for whatever reason, well, it's insulin resistance efficiency. All right. The brain cells aren't able to process glucose. Well, ketones are uptake and metabolism, a completely different pathway. Can you rescued energy deficit that, that defect substrate. So it's been pretty early data around ketogenic diets being helpful as well as exotic as being helpful for those use cases as well. So I just had a Dr. Kabran Chapek on the show last week. He's written about concussion rescue. You're looking at a traumatic brain injury, Al Thomas. And there's a, when you have a brain injury for example, there's a metabolic no problem. What's that glucose getting in it? Where The good coach is not getting put in.

Speaker 5: (54:53)
And they did a at trial where they put and IB glucose and people with brain injuries and they suppressed the ketones. The body was producing this morning. It was actually feeding the brain and actually made them work. Yeah. And this is like, Oh my God, that's what they did. My mum when she was in ICU, they put in, you know, and I'm like, I had no idea at the time glucose was not, it would be logical to think cause you Brian needs you a lot of glucose. Well, when there's a metabolic disruption caused by the brain injury, it would have been far better to give her pay times and, and you know, ketone Ester or something or even fish oils so on to feed the brain then then glucose and suppressing what little ketones you would have had, you know. No, that's exactly right.

Speaker 5: (55:42)
The mechanism that you're describing is exactly right. This kind of Columbian released a blood glucose uptake. Yes. Yeah. It's again, that's where you have to understand the mechanisms too. Have a solution. Yeah. Again, I don't want to like, I think, you know, we don't want to over-hype anything. I think that's another area of interesting research. I think it's an interesting and hopefully we'll be able to see published results. Yeah. From that hypothesis. That's exactly right. You know, the mechanism of action we would be targeting looking ketones or concussion and TBI. That's absolutely, yeah. Yeah, definitely. You should click with or listen to my last episode cause that was a really, you he'd be great to get on your show. So I know we have to wrap up. You Mmm. Some of your products, you've got your new tropics, you've got your, the one, you've got a sleep aid, you've got a focus, memory aid the other two, you hit another two there.

Speaker 5: (56:51)
Omega-3 DHA focused like a brain DHA supplements called keto. And then we have chronic longterm cognitive performance will rise. And then we have sprint, which is but cute a caffeine off. He needs that. All right. So if anyone wants to check them out. So you have a podcast. Yeah, the ice, we mean podcasts. So everybody go and check out different words on the podcast. HB in him. Yep. I always get the name. I must be slightly dyslexic around their own way. When people reach out to you and connect with you and the work that you doing. Mmm. Can I get the ketone esters by your website? So I understand you're out of stock at the moment. Yeah, I was checking on the website and that will be the most up to date place to get updates at hvmn.com. Yeah, it's always interesting in the beginning of the year because a lot of the institutional sports teams kind of stock up for the season so I can add on the shelves. Yes.

Speaker 5: (58:04)
You know, it's sort of like first come first serve, right. It's, you know, I guess there's been a lot of media coverage on tour de France teams for example, using our product. So that's coming up later this summer. Right. Awesome. A lot of the salient volume goes, goes there. Yeah. I mean you find us on each PMN very easily searchable, but also personally at Geoffrey Woo, G E O F F R E R Y W O O primarily on Twitter and Instagram. Happy to engage there as well. Awesome. I will put all those links Geoffrey in the, in the show notes and thank you so much. We appreciate your time today. I really appreciate the work you're doing. I love listening to your podcast. I, I do feel at the end of it quite challenged intellectually often. But it's at the cutting edge of what's happening out there. So it's really, really exciting. So thanks very much for your time today. I really much enjoyed the conversation. It's super fun. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 6: (59:05)
If your brain is not functioning, edit space and check out what the team at the light dotcom do now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices, your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age-related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at vielight.com. That's V I E L I G H T.com and use the code T A M A T I it chick out to get 10% off any of the devices.

Speaker 1: (59:55)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com. The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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World-leading Brain Injury Physician Dr. Kabran Chapek, author of the new book "Concussion Rescue" shares his insights, experience and comprehensive guide to reclaiming your brain function after a brain injury. But this is also an episode on brain health in general and everyone alive on this planet needs to think about the future of their brain health, from traumatic brain injury to Alzheimer's to dementia, you will have the privilege of learning from on the best physicians out there. Dr. Chapek has been a staff physician at Amen Clinics since 2013. As a graduate of Bastyr University in the Seattle area, he is an expert in the use of functional and integrative treatments and collaborates extensively with many of the Amen Clinics physicians. He has a special interest in the assessment and treatment of Alzheimer's and dementia, traumatic brain injuries, PTSD, and anxiety disorders. Dr. Chapek is the founding president of the Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic Physicians, an affiliate group of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians. You can find Dr. Chapeks book "Concussion Rescue" on amazon https://www.amazon.com/Concussion-Rescue-Comprehensive-Program-Traumatic/dp/0806540230 You can do the brain health assessment at www.brainhealthassessment.com and follow Dr Kabran Chapek on instagram at @drkabran_chapek You can reach out to Dr Amen at www.amenclinics.com We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
[Inaudible]

Speaker 3: (00:13)
If your brain is not functioning at its best then checkout what the team at vielight.com do now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices, your brain function, the pain's largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. And I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age-related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So check out what the team do at vielight.com. That's V I E L I G H T . Com and use the code TAMATI at checkout to get 10% of any of their devices.

Speaker 2: (01:05)
[Inaudible]

Speaker 3: (01:05)
Oh my gosh, you guys are in for the biggest, most amazing interview ever. I have Dr. Kabran Chapek to guest in a moment now. He is a staff physician at the amen clinics in America, in Seattle. And this interview is about his book, a concussion rescue, which just came out in January. Absolutely fascinating man with amazing information. If you have any problem with your brain, if you've ever had a traumatic brain injury, a concussion, if any one of your loved ones have, if you're worried about dementia, if you're worried about Alzheimer's or the future of your brain health and who shouldn't be, everybody should be interested in that. Then you must, must listen to this amazing interview. I got so much out of this and it ratified a lot of the things that I'd been doing with my mum and her journey and gave me some new ideas too. So really excited for this interview. I hope you enjoy it now over to dr Chapek.

Speaker 3: (02:09)
Well, hello everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you all, Back again, I really appreciate your loyalty. And this week I have a very special guest all the way from Seattle and America adopted Cameron chopping up the chocolate. Welcome to the show. It's an honor to be here with you. Lisa. It's fantastic. When one of the one of your assistants reached out to me to see if you had come on my show. And so I was just so excited when I read the outline of your new book concussion rescue, which we're going to dive into today because it was like, Oh, finally, finally someone's put this together, put this all together in a book that the light person can understand. So dr Chapek, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and where you and this amazing new book concussion risks.

Speaker 4: (03:02)
Okay, so I'm a naturopathic physician and which if, if your listeners are not sure what that is, it's looking at treating the whole person, looking at treating the cause versus symptoms. It's, that's the philosophy of naturopathic medicine and the training. In some ways it's similar, some ways different do conventional MDs are medical doctors where we have the basic sciences, but then we have the ologies oncology, gastroenterology, nutrition, exercise, all of that. So that's kind of my background in training. I work at amen clinics, which is based on dr Hayman's work. And he's a psychiatrist. Been doing this for 30 years and 30 years ago he said, instead of just talking to people, I need to look at their brains. This is what, who they are. And so he started imaging people's brains with the type of scan called SPECT, S, P, E, C, T, single photon emission computed tomography.

Speaker 4: (03:58)
It's kind of like a CT scan, but it's looking at functional aspects. So how is the brain working? And so we have this huge database of scans, 150,000 scans. When patients come in, we can compare their scans to the database, we can do research. And so part of our evaluation is looking at the brain versus just talking. And I love doing labs. I love doing a really comprehensive workup and then individualizing people's treatment plans. That's what gets me excited every day coming to work. And I work in Seattle, as you mentioned live here with my wife and three kids. And I love running and being outdoors and, and and then doing this work. And I, and I wrote the book concussion rescue because Lisa, there's a silent epidemic. And you know, I say that because there are 3 million people, at least in the U S would go to the ER every single year who have had a brain injury concussion, which is a form of mild traumatic brain injury. And they, there's not a lot of solutions and options for them. And so in, in my 12 years working in mental health, I'd say that brain injury is a major cause of mental illness. Yeah, no one's talking about it. It's minimized. And this sort of, we think that there's nothing you can do.

Speaker 3: (05:29)
Absolutely. So Assad an epidemic. So what I find interesting is that if you talk to a lot of people, and you asked me now, have you had a brain injury? They come, you know I get to talk to a lot of people because of my background with the story with mum. And a lot of people will go, no, no, no, I haven't, I haven't had a brain injury. And then you go, are you sure you haven't hit a brain? Most of us have had something along the way and it could be a long back, even in their childhood when we, you know, got knocked out on the jungle gyms or we, you know, took the hits he had in some, some way shape or form and most people have had some sort of brain injury that has left a lasting effect and people aren't aware of the solid generalists.

Speaker 4: (06:16)
No, it's, it's a myth that you know, you have to lose consciousness to have had a brain injury or that you have to have gone to the ER to have a brain injury or because I had my helmet on, I couldn't have had a brain injury. Helmet just protects the skull, you know even whiplash not hitting your head can cause a brain injury. And so a brain injury or concussion is defined as like a, a hit to the head or an acceleration. Deceleration meaning like a really fast jolt to the head, like with flash is enough to shake the brain inside the skull and cause injury. If you have any change in mental status, like feeling seen stars, that's enough to damage the brain. The brain is soft like butter and the skull is hard, like a rock with many bony ridges and it's easy for the brain to be damaged because of that.

Speaker 4: (07:17)
It's like we're not designed to hit our heads at all. Yeah, we do. And it's cumulative. So we try and ask people who come to the clinics at least 10 times, like you said, it's perfect. It's like, are you sure you ever fallen out of a tree? You ever dove into a shallow pool? ahm Have you ever had a car accident? Have ever played context sports? You had a patient, we can call him Jeremy who when he was 21, he came to see me and he had been suicidally depressed since he was 14. Wow. And he was a scrawny kid. He was a jazz drummer. Really neat kid. But he was smoking pot every day too. Feel better. He had a girlfriend who was very, very poor relationships. She was mean to him. He needed to and the relationship just couldn't do it, didn't feel strong.

Speaker 4: (08:08)
And when he came to see us, we scanned his brain and it was clear he had had an injury. Yeah. On his history, his intake, there was no evidence of brain injury. He had never said that he had had a brain injury. And so I asked him, have you ever fallen out of a tree? Have you ever dove into a shallow pool, fallen off a horse, off a bike? No, no, no. I said, have you ever play contact sports? And his mother who was with him said, Oh yeah, you did start playing football when you were age 13 ish. And he was matched against the coach's son who is six feet tall. And he was like this funny little kid. He just kept getting hit really hard and had headaches. And he and that's when his depression and suicidal started. He was also diagnosed with add and he had tried every class of medication and tried to all kinds of therapy, hypnosis, EMDR, CBT, all these really great therapies and been referred by a great therapist that I knew And so when we put them on a program to heal his brain after a couple of months, his symptoms of depression lifted.

Speaker 3: (09:17)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (09:18)
And two, two years later, now fast forward, he's, this spring he's going to be graduating from the Berkeley school of music for jazz, drumming, stop smoking pot. So he's doing it. So some people have concussions and brain injuries. It's clear they're not healing. Then there's people who have some other issue in the, if you think back it may be actually due to a brain injury you didn't realize.

Speaker 3: (09:40)
Yeah, it is. You know I just had a question that popped up in my head when you're telling that story is even things like having low blood pressure or adrenal fatigue, you know, where you stand up too quickly and you in the, you get stars in your eyes for a few seconds or you know, is, is even vet doing any damage to our heads, to our brains.

Speaker 4: (10:04)
It can do a little bit. You mean like that, that low blood pressure thing? Cause you can,

Speaker 3: (10:08)
No, you've seen it where you have a bit of a dream of a taste. It doesn't come up when you stand up. Yeah. Sorry.

Speaker 4: (10:17)
Z that transient decrease in blood flow to the brain can be damaging. I mean you'll even pass out eventually we'll do because it's so, it's such a shock to the brain. But it's transient. So hopefully, you know, you put your head down, you S you get blood flow again, it's short enough that it's not going to do anything permanent. But repeat low blood pressure is a problem. You know, the brain needs blood flow.

Speaker 3: (10:47)
Well, I'm asking selfishly. Yeah, yeah. Very low blood pressure and have that problem. Often when I stand up, especially in the evenings and we have been a bit stressed out and tired, I noticed that I get up and I'm like, well you know, I wondered if that, you know, that temporary lack of blood flow could be damaging as well.

Speaker 4: (11:09)
Yeah. I don't think it's good, but I don't think it's causing permanent damage. As long as you address it, put your head down, sit down, relax, lay down.

Speaker 3: (11:18)
Yeah. Now dr Kabran, I wanted to actually dive into the book a little bit and actually couple of the things now with the modernist is nine. My story with my mum. Well hopefully they do. Most of them would know and I've got a book coming out too. Next months are a meatless, you know, what's really exciting when I looked through your book, a lot of the things that you've written in this book I've done to my beloved and being in New Zealand and I didn't have access to things like spics games in, in, in a lot of the fancy stuff. But I'd do what I could. One of the biggest pieces of the puzzle for me was hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And I've had a couple of experts on the show, Dr. Scott Cher was one of those on hyperbaric and how powerful this can be for people with brain injuries. So let's start with hyperbaric. What is,

Speaker 4: (12:20)
If I had one magic bullet, I can only do one thing to heal someone's brain. It would be hyperbaric. Okay,

Speaker 3: (12:26)
Wow. Yup. Totally agree. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (12:30)
It's a, and your listeners probably know, but it's hyperbaric oxygen is a chamber well under pressure and it pushes oxygen to the deeper structures that haven't been able to heal. And just like a diver has the bins, they go up too fast. They go in this chamber at higher pressures. This is low pressure, low pressure over time. So like 40 hours, 80 hours, 120 hours. And I actually was able to participate in a quick study a pilot study with Zachary light stead and he's, he was a high school athlete who had second impact syndrome. So he was put in, was about 14 or so. He was playing football. Got hit, went out, went back in and said, I'm fine. Coach put me back in, got hit again. Massive brain bleed afterwards in a coma for months, unable to walk and talk. And he had to relearn that. And so his parents were huge advocates of that. And that's why we have the Zachary lifestyle law or some version of it in every state in the U S where if someone, if an athlete is suspected of having a concussion, they have to be taken out and assessed by a medical professional before they can be put back in. Again, not every state has a seat belt law yet, surprisingly.

Speaker 4: (13:48)
So I was able to do a high prepare costs and study with this motivated kid who is recovered a lot but not fully. And we did 40 sessions of hyperbaric before and after. And of course, it's not a 180 degree with just that, but it improved his, you could see improvements in blood flow in his frontal lobe and it's parietal lobe, even five years after this massive, massive

Speaker 3: (14:13)
Wow, that's important 0.5 years after because a lot of people ask me, well, do I have to have had it in the past few months? And then I say, no, no. Who know, you can, it came to even

Speaker 4: (14:24)
Not too late. And there's another evidence of that. We did a study with 30 retired NFL football players. So now fast forward, these guys are in their fifties and sixties, and it's been like 10 20 years since they played football, but terrible looking brains. I mean, really severe damage. And they're starting to have depression. They're starting to have memory problems. They're headed towards dementia. And what we did for them was we gave them supplements, we gave them a healthier diet treated HYP treated sleep apnea if needed. And then hyperbaric oxygen for some of them as well. And after six months we were able to rescan their brains, significant improvement. Their quality of life was better, less depression, less anxiety, less depression or less anger. That's anger and better processing speed. So it's not, it's not too late.

Speaker 3: (15:20)
Awesome. This is really exciting. I've got a brother who was a professional rugby player and he had a number of brain injuries and I've been trying to get him in the hyperbaric cause I have a chamber podcast because he wants me to know, you know what, what really frustrates me is this is a very simple, so you know, there, there, there's a, the medical grade hyperbaric facilities, which you have a lot of in America and then there are mild hyperbaric chamber and you know, and you feel that it's very hard to get access to the medical grade ones. We hit them in Oakland ring, cross street hospital, but they won't, they do not believe they are off benefit for brain injury, which is just absolute training. Same here.

Speaker 3: (16:14)
So studies. And there was one clinic here in the South on end of New Zealand, adopted Tim UA, who has had a a proper chamber, you know, a medical brake chamber and he's just shut his doors after 15 years because he's sick of all of the regulations and the problems associated with secondhand. And this is the most powerful. Like if I had not had this from mom, I do not think I would have got him back 250 sessions with him and I ended up opening a mild hyperbaric clinic here. So you get to, you know, get local people access to it. And I'm a really big advocate for it. I've, I've since sold the clinic, but it's now available for other people. It's awesome, but it's not, it's using mod hyperbaric. So which, which are Brian and Brie, you know, at 1.5 atmospheres is, is, you know according to Dr. Hart who you probably know sees his ideal, obviously for, for other injuries, a little bit high pressure would be, would be better. But it's so, it's so important to share this message that this is a very powerful X is to it. Then you're like, when you're meeting up just the brain injury. Is it that his brother?

Speaker 4: (17:39)
No, no, it's especially for strokes. I'm so glad you did that and I'm kind of curious when she noticed, started noticing improvement along that 250 sessions, if it was early and it continued to prove or later on

Speaker 3: (17:52)
We had the first 33 sessions at a commercial dive company. Con allowed me to use the facility. Also I had to sign legal waivers and so on. I, I as soon as I got around to the hospital that day, I got her out of the hospital and she was like, you know, 24, seven key issue was completely bombed. Fill down to the factory, put her on a forklift in the middle of the spectrum and stuff or in the chamber. Much thought I was nuts. Right? There's nobody you can with walls. We did three treatments at that place. And in the month following the, the chamber thing got taken off overseas at a contract and I lost the access to it. And so for a month I had no chamber while I was ordering one from the S from China. And in that month is where I saw a huge gains, is her body caught up and she said yes, you started to have more speech wanting to move her and trying to communicate. And it wasn't like up and up and walking or, or anything like that. But she was starting to have a little bit of intention to what she wanted and was trying to communicate and so on. Let's see that this awesome. And then she came back. They, I had more to work with other things and unfortunately I didn't have a spec scans. I wish, I wish I could have Headspace scans all the way through this too to prove, you know, this was what, what was happening. Yeah, so

Speaker 4: (19:39)
The hyperbarics, you know, mostly we have the same problem in the U S as far as access. So there are a lot of clinics with the mild hyperbaric and I think it works great and I recommend people we can, they can rent chambers for a couple of months and try and get in those 40 to 80 hours in the chamber. And I see it work all the time. I, I would, I tend to layer it in as kind of a clinical Pearl is like if you have the finances and resources and it have access to it, there's no reason not to do it anywhere along the process. But because it is time intensive and costly at least make sure you have the other elements in first. Nutrition, supplements, physical alignment, sleep, start to rehabilitate with brain exercises and, and add in hyperbaric if there's any plateauing along the way. And maybe after a couple of months after starting that nutrients. That's what I reckon.

Speaker 3: (20:38)
Yeah. Let's go into this, the methodology here a little bit and dig deeper into we don't always do my research. I tried to get her on, you know, the good fats, MCT oil on special oils, that sort of thing. At the beginning, she could have the eight, 10, she couldn't sugar. So most of her nutrition was green smoothies, whatever I could get down here. And so your nutrition wise, what are some of the supplements that we can, because whatever you do before you go into hyperbaric will be intensified. Run it like of you know, things like vitamin C infusions or anything like that. Is that a good, is that a, for example, a good thing to be doing? And you know,

Speaker 4: (21:29)
Prior to hyperbaric and MCT, prior to hyperbaric and essentially a ketogenic diet with hyperbaric is I think enhances the whole a, they're synergistic. They both have antioxidant and antiinflammatory effects and they both increase healing of the mitochondria turning on genes. So the whole reason I think that ketogenic diet is worth looking at, it's not right for everyone and you just want to check with your doctor before starting it. But it's, it's not just for weight loss. It's kind of a fad right now. And us, is it in New Zealand across the world? Pretty much. And it's a, it's a low fat or it's a low carbohydrate diet, less than 30 grams of carbs a day, which isn't much until that forces the body to burn fats for fuel. Your brain is very hungry using 20 to 30% of calories in your diet, which is like a quarter of your plate.

Speaker 4: (22:27)
Think about it, 2% of your body weight brain using 20 to 30% of calories in your diet, so hungry, but yet when there's injury or there's some neurological problem, typically there's a metabolic deficit. The brain is not able to use as much fuel. As mitochondria are damaged, the brain is damaged and so the ketone bodies which are produced from Makita, genic diet don't take as many steps to get into the brain to be used as fuel. Whereas some of the times the glucose transporters are damaged. I can dementia and brain injury. There's a lot of correlates between the two. There's difficulty in utilizing and accessing glucose for this hungry Oregon. You know, right after brain injury, there's this metabolic deficit, this drop in glucose metabolism after about 10 to 30 minutes, which continues to stay low for weeks. And so this hungry organ, nowK doesn't have enough glucose. That's part of the problem. It's

Speaker 3: (23:24)
The bites, the whole problem. I mean that is part of what causes to meet. Sure. Isn't it? When you if we don't have into like insulin resistance cause you know, by bad diet for many years leading to or contributing to Alzheimer's and dementia did this as a, as a similar effect happening with a brain. But that a bit quicker. Yeah, exactly. So we can get the glucose in. So it's really, really crucial. If you are not on a keto diet and you just add an exogenous ketones, is that enough? Is that going to benefit?

Speaker 4: (24:04)
That's a great question. I think it's worth trying. The research doesn't, it's unclear in my mind because they've tried giving. So there's a study because they had patients in comas and they gave them, because they know about this metabolic deficit they gave them IVA glucose thinking, Oh, let's just give them glucose. And what happened was it suppressed their little bit of ketone production. They had like 16% ketones, which were fueling the brain a little bit. And that totally squashed that. And so a little bit, so it's not the answer we need to shift towards burning fats for fuel, burning ketones for fuel. So adding exogenous ketones, there's various studies where they've I think added lactate and different sort of fuel sources and so far haven't been that successful. I think was probably the best. I mean, if I had a brain injury myself for my loved ones, my family members, I'm giving them exhaustion, ketones right away, you know, keto OOS or some sort of product. And, and just in the hopes that they're getting some more fuel for their brain with all of the nutrients that they should be receiving. But it's, if you're on a ketogenic diet, MCTs and anxieties, ketones absolutely enhance the process. If you're eating a crap diet, lots of sugar processed foods, I don't think it's going to help much

Speaker 3: (25:33)
Standard hospital fear and you know, things like that. We hit those door and I'm like, you know, I didn't find that out unfortunately during the initial, but what I did do is at least I brought in my own smoothies and made my own options while she was awesome. They allowed you to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well I didn't always ask permission. Don't you have to do the H DHA and you know, and official oils and things like that. I'm awesome as well. And I I wish I'd known more earlier. Some of these things, you know, I did later on as I, as I, as I got more and more research. But I think so if you can't get the patient to, to do a ketogenic diet at least try with the exhausted, those would be the minimum.

Speaker 4: (26:27)
Right. And do a lower carb diet. No sugar, just, you know, it can be in a stepwise process. First cut out all extra sugar, no cookies, cakes, candy, sweets, especially right after an injury or at any point. Then second step would be protein at each meal, meat, eggs, grass fed, beef, chicken, whatever. Then adding more vegetables and then more healthy fats, avocados, coconut oil. And so even doing that, like is there studies showing that if someone, excuse me, these are actually animals who are on a high sugar diet compared to those who are on a normal rat chow diet and then given a brain injury, those on a high sugar diet, those rats had a lot more concussive symptoms and took longer to recover.

Speaker 3: (27:16)
And this is, I think, you know, I'm translating a little bit into dementia and Alzheimer's. So a huge epidemic. And the thing that we can see this coming 10 years down the track, you know, this is also a very important point for, and you know, I have the broken brain series by dr Hyman and a lot of the experts in that area the mature in Alzheimer's is known as the top three diabetes in understanding the influence of sugar and insulin resistance and not giving enough glucose as we mentioned before. It's something that people can do to protect the brain health. Now, you know, years out from actually developing the disease, which is really, you know, late in the pace people especially, you know, trying to keep your brain function going. If you're noticing memory changes and this sort of thing, at least cut the sugar out. Even a tie we can obviously it didn't so much, you know, and this is the insidious problem and, and a lot of with them, older people know they've eaten meat and three veggies and the white breathe in the ligament. It's not sugar. You know,

Speaker 4: (28:39)
I had a patient who I think she was about 75 when she came in. Her son brought her in and she had moved to the area from I think Indiana or Chicago, somewhere in the Midwest. And she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and was prescribed Aricept medications or get your things in order and see you later. I was kind of, it, it's very sad that current approach to dementia and understanding me, the doctors may not have a lot of options that they've got their meds, but we do have more options actually. And so she came in, we assessed her. Yep. You've got mild cognitive impairment, may be early stages of Alzheimer's. She was living in a retirement home and just near a little downtown. Couldn't remember how to get down a few blocks to the downtown to do her shopping. And she had to draw maps and she couldn't remember her list even if she was just like three things, had to write lists and cause I have a lot of difficulties. So when she came in, we put her on this program, great programs, supplements, nutrition, exercise and let's see back in a month. So Oh and cut out your sugar because she, she wasn't overweight, so she thought, ah, I'm, I can, I deserve to have my retirement home, my treats. You know, she had a frappuccino at breakfast. She's having ice cream and cookies because it's free. It's just like at the retirement home.

Speaker 3: (30:08)
Oh yes.

Speaker 4: (30:09)
Serve ice cream. I said, you got to cut off the shirt. Just cut out the sugar. Let's do that first. Try and eat more protein and less carbs, which is like you mentioned, take the bun off the burger just even if it's not like the best quality meat, just that's fine. Just cut out the carbs first. And so she came back a month later and she was now able to, even just a month, she's able to find her way downtown. Wow. And she could remember that at least three things on her list. She couldn't remember everything, but three things she could remember. And I said, I'm patting myself on the back. Oh my God, you, you did everything. My pro, my protocol is like perfect. And she's like, I didn't take any of the supplements that you recommended. Oh boy. And I didn't do the exercise. But I did cut out the sugar.

Speaker 3: (31:01)
It just cut it just in one in one month you saw a change. Did she subsequently do the wrist?

Speaker 4: (31:10)
So then she was willing to do more and so each thing she added, like we added curcumin, we added a brain supplement. It had Gingko and Huperzine each thing she added, she got a little bit more improvement over the subsequent months. And that's what I found folks, you know, they may be a little mistrustful and so they want to try just one thing at a time. And luckily that was the thing that was really slowing her progress down.

Speaker 3: (31:36)
Oh man. It's so exciting. You know, like to see, you know, and you get people that have been on drugs and they've tried things and they have just, and these are not dangerous things to come out sugar and take a few supplements. You know, like we're not asking these mob America, but the side effect is better health overall and that is always going to benefit your brain anytime that you are. You mentioned Kirkman, which is your tumeric, which is another thing that I still hadn't come on and I'm on. What are some of the other sub supplements that could, is there a list of supplements that you give at as a standard or do you tailor them to each particular patient? Who, one, that's everyone's tailored, but there are some that I keep coming back to because they will compose. So the app, you know, I listens to them eat them now.

Speaker 4: (32:32)
Yes. Well NAC is probably available. There is a supplement. Inositol cystine. Yup. Precursor to glutathione, anti-inflammatory and just a little piece of information too. They did this double blind placebo controlled trial in 2013 where they had active service members who had a concussion like in the field. So they had an IED blast or something and then were carried or taken to the medic and they gave them NAC. Was this a double blind trial? So NAC or placebo and they were given a lot of it. And I'll tell you the dose in a second, after a week, 86% of them imp like recovered from their and concussive symptoms, whereas 42% recovered, you weren't given any. Wow. And so they were given four grams immediately days one through four. And they were given two grams twice a day. And there's five through seven. They were given 1.5 grams twice a day. So that's like an acute protocol. But NAC is important even after the fact, because many of, even though the research is mostly on acute brain injury, we know the mechanisms, many of them are exactly the same and chronic brain injury and concussion and so they apply. So NAC applies. Curcumin definitely.

Speaker 3: (33:59)
C is inositol a sustain for anybody who doesn't know what that means? Okay. And Q command, which is your, in your tumeric, what sorts of vitamins for that one?

Speaker 4: (34:11)
I would do about a thousand milligrams a day of a high quality one. And it needs to be, you can use that acutely. And also chronically, it helps to open up aquaporins. So these are water channels in the brain and you can do decrease swelling, which is especially important acutely for brain injury. Like there's this pastor who was in a car accident. I always remember. And two weeks later he thought he was fine. We went to the ER, checked out, you're fine, no brain bleed. Good. Then he went home. He was, seemed to be okay, but two weeks later he couldn't write a sermon. And I think what happened is the swelling was very gradual and slow. Not enough to be life threatening, but eventually it pushed on some of the brain regions that temporal lobes, frontal lobes, and he started having cognitive problems. So it can be this delayed.

Speaker 3: (35:04)
It's a light smoke, which is logical. When you cut yourself, you don't see the swelling straight away, you see it as it goes into the healing process.

Speaker 4: (35:14)
Exactly. Vitamin vitamin D is important. So as a fat soluble vitamin, almost more like a hormone, it turns on many different genes and helps modulate inflammation in the brain. Vitamin C I used 5,000. I use vitamin D. Vitamin C is as a buffered antioxidant water-soluble, the brain actually does well with more vitamin C, even though it's just a simple thing, everyone knows about it. It really does help decrease inflammation, that oxidative stress in the brain thousand milligrams at least a day. And they get three fatty acids. And I like using ones that are higher, a little higher EPA to DHA, which most are EPA for inflammation D to help rebuild the neuron and the cell membrane. And we try to use three grams a day of EPA DHA total. And that's what we use in that football player studying MCT oil of course you mentioned and other things,

Speaker 3: (36:27)
Especially oil, it's, it's important that you look for a very good quality one. W what do you type on the opposite side of problem, you know, with, with the some of the lower price fish oils [inaudible] a lot of oxidation going on. That is a problem.

Speaker 4: (36:45)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And quality is really key, especially for fish oil, like vitamin D, vitamin a, some of these nutrients, there's only a few manufacturers. Like in the, in the U S there's only three places that actually make vitamin E and every other supplement company just packages it up and charges different amounts. Vitamin E and they get three is not like that. It's really individualized per company and you need to check quality and there can be heavy metals in the fish. It can be oxidized like you said, if it's not processed properly. So that's when I wouldn't go for the cheap stuff.

Speaker 3: (37:23)
Okay. Very, very, very good. I'm talking on healing middle toxicity. Sorry, going a little bit off of track and we'll come back. I've done here tissue mineral analysis with mum. She's got like a moot Cori. What would be your humane mandation for getting rid of, you know, chelating these high pinning middles out of, out, out of your body. Is there anything new we want to supplement level for that type of thing?

Speaker 4: (37:55)
Well, yes. So one I'll just, there's a lot there. First making sure your organs of elimination are working, you know, which are organs of elimination are sweating. So the skin breathing out, toxins pooping out toxins. Having good bowel movements and not being constipated, and then urinating them out, st hydrated and peeing them out. So once all of those are open, then you can start sort of facilitating removal of metals or all toxins. And the fact that she has mercury, she probably has other things too. So solvents, mold should be always assessed for. And so I do love saunas and sweating because dr Jenny is from Canada did a really interesting study where he looked at, so what is Sana do? Like, what is it actually eliminating? And they measured in the sweat of people doing sauna. It eliminates mold metals and just chemicals, solvents.

Speaker 4: (39:00)
So it does all three. Wow. So that's why I love Sana because it's gonna remove all of them. And it's also been shown study out of Finland. If you're doing sauna more frequently, lower chances of dementia, in fact, that was it 2000 Finnish men or 20,000? There was a lot of them in any case. And after they followed them over many years and they found that the more saunas that they did, like five to seven days a week, they had 30% less risk of Alzheimer's versus those that just did it one day a week. So it's multiple reasons to do saunas and sweating and actually in the same study through exercise, sweat, also cleansing and detoxifying. So the fact that you're a runner and running all that gets you have been is cleansing.

Speaker 3: (39:49)
Yeah. As you know, is a, is a, is a huge piece of this puzzle for brain injury. As well as the most detoxifying and, and I totally eh, and someone who's sweeped every single day pretty much of their life. And I, I even even compete just to my, my siblings I can see lots of things happening in the body, so that isn't happening in mind yet. And I believe a lot of it is the, the daily sweeping, the daily mudflow, the oxygenation of the tissues. Hugely important for and also for, you know, cognitive stuff as well. Like mum, I have her doing at least two hours of aerobic activity. Very low level. We're talking on a stationary bicycle and morphing. That's all she can manage. Obviously it's CBAs but you know, two hours a day and awesome. Yeah. You know, sometimes she doesn't want to crack the whip differently. The drug Sajan that oxygen, that movement then is very, very, very important. I believe in airing her, her brain

Speaker 4: (41:10)
exercise is so important. Increasing blood flow, it increases especially intense aerobic exercise increases BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is like miracle growth for the neurons and the more intense the more you produce. And there's supplements that increase BDNF a little bit, medications a little bit, but exercise trumps them all

Speaker 3: (41:33)
Does. Yep.

Speaker 4: (41:34)
Absolutely. Much more. What about new for fact or is it also influenced by nerve growth factor? Yeah. Yes. Also same influenced by exercise interval training will increase nerve growth factor. And like you said, increasing blood flow in general is, is needed and this is a real big exercise versus anaerobic or strength training. And then, you know, just going to say about this cleansing or effective exercise and endurance athlete, like you probably does sweat, you know, for 45 minutes or so, but folks like your average person like myself, I may go for it. 15 minute run, I'm not going to sweat as much as I would in a sauna. So just keep that in mind. So people listening just cause you're doing a little bit of sweating, it's probably not enough. If you really have a problem with toxicity, you'd want to actually do some sauna and sweat for really good sweat for 20 to 40 minutes several times a week.

Speaker 3: (42:39)
Yeah. And that's something, a problem I have with mum. Like I couldn't put her in a sauna. I don't know why, but she has temperature regulation problems that are brain steam, hypothalamus, brainstem bleed damaged thermostat. Yeah. Well she seems to have no tolerance to heat. She's good as soon as the hate. Like we're in the middle of summer here and it's a struggle that your cognitive abilities do decline and she over hates. Is there anything you can do for them?

Speaker 4: (43:16)
I'm not sure. How does she do with cold?

Speaker 3: (43:19)
She's much better with cold cuts, very well with cold. But Hey, you know, like her ability to walk inside of this is, is impaired.

Speaker 4: (43:31)
Yeah. I would say may just may not be able to do this sweating. But it's interesting that she does well with cold and maybe even pushing that further and considering cold therapy

Speaker 3: (43:42)
you cry, cry. Yup. You know, ice man training love that is really interesting. So, and I think these extremes and change is, is a key factor here too. It's, yeah. And, and because if you think about it, we, we came from, you know, an F caveman days. We were exposed to the elements. We were exposed to coal, we weren't comfortable all day in a company. And I think having exposure to what was natural is often a benefit and being convenient. Stress, yup.

Speaker 4: (44:23)
Helps us to be, become more resilient and stronger. I totally couldn't agree more. Exercise cold and hot. I'm challenging the brain brain training. You know, all of these are really important.

Speaker 3: (44:37)
Absolutely. So, going back to the supplement regime, is there anything that we, because we sort of waned on agent, was there anything else that you'd say, Hey, you've got a brain injury.

Speaker 4: (44:51)
So alpha GPC really important for acetylcholine. And after stroke 1200 milligrams got to do that. So I don't know if she's taking off of GPC, but that's worth a try.

Speaker 3: (45:04)
Heavier on acetylcholine is that different? Alpha GPC phosphatidylcholine. Now as Seadrill calling,

Speaker 4: (45:13)
I see the coin. So the casino coin is that actual neurotransmitter that you're trying to make. So I see the little carnitine.

Speaker 3: (45:21)
Yes, I have in the past header on there. Is it good?

Speaker 4: (45:25)
Yeah, that is also good. Helps the mitochondria. Yeah. Alpha GPC will help you her make more acetylcholine and also help the neuron. Phosphatidyl searing is another really good one for memory. There's not as much research on that for brain injury, but I, I still think it's really helpful for memory and cognition because 10% of your brain is made out of this fossa title steering. It's in the cell membranes and

Speaker 3: (45:57)
Okay.

Speaker 4: (45:58)
Counter as a supplement. It's very, I'd give it to kids. I mean it's so safe this stuff, but it really is helpful. Alpha GPC potentially. So Gingko 120 milligrams to 240 of Gingko biloba extract. Really good for blood flow. Who present a Chinese club. Moss is a natural acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, so it's sort of increases your body's own CDOT. Coleen I wouldn't give that for acute brain injury, but chronic brain injury, dementia, any other,

Speaker 3: (46:32)
How do you spell that one? Lou Lou cuisine

Speaker 4: (46:35)
Prison. H. U. P. E. R. Z. I. N. E. a. It's M Chinese club Moss. It's from Chinese club Moss. And it's, it's a [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (46:47)
But you have to go out and actually buy concussion rescued because this is all that's sort of level of information in one single seating sitting is, is there's a lot, I mean I spent months and months researching to come up with the bits and pieces that I came up with. And you've written a book that actually gives people a first aid kit for Brian and a protocol to follow and in this is just so exciting. You know I'd love to, if you were down the road, I'd love to go on a speaking tour with you and give like that Rachel side of it and then the side of it, wouldn't it be just

Speaker 4: (47:31)
Let's do it. I'll come down to New Zealand. I've been wanting to need an excuse so,

Speaker 3: (47:36)
Well I use that word a lot. They're all come to America and because, because we, we talking millions of people being affected by brain injury every year in, in most people are not given anything except you know, the, well not even the diet recommendations like it's, it's frustrating said and there are just so many people suffering in silence and, and it's an insidious thing because with Brian injuries as with dementia, you don't see on the outside the stuff going on. So a lot of the people that come through our hyperbaric clinic would be so in tears that people don't, when I understood the pain that I was going through because people could not see an injury, that's a young man and he looks healthy and he can't stay in the light and he can't stand the noise. And he counts, he's fatigued all the time and people are just thinking, you're being a woman, you're not.

Speaker 4: (48:40)
And he starts to wonder, what's wrong with me? Maybe I am a wimp. Maybe I'm, I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 3: (48:47)
It's more sad. And then things like depression and personality changes where we think someone's just become a horrible person. Dealing with really cognitive problems. So having an, having understanding for people who have Dimitrio who have personality changes, we have like going on that it may be not be fault, you know?

Speaker 4: (49:15)
Yeah. I have to say that's one benefit of having the ability to do imaging or at least some kind of cognitive tool or test. The imaging is just so powerful because when you show someone their brain and it showed their family members their brain, that's when the tears come because it's like, Oh my God, it's not only diagnostic, but it's therapeutic. They understand. It's just, it is, there is, there is a, there's an injury,

Speaker 3: (49:41)
Yes. And injury and I can see it and I feel, Oh my gosh, it's not all my fault and I'm not being a neurotic or, or you know, being old. There's nothing wrong with you. You know, I'm with them and they know that there's something wrong but nobody's believing them. And that is very, very painful. And I wish we hit spec scans. He, we don't have access to them. And I wish that had been through the journey to be able to

Speaker 4: (50:12)
I'm just thinking what else is available? You know, there's cognitive testing that can be done just to document difficulty in memory and focus and things.

Speaker 3: (50:22)
Can you just ask a, you know, a clinician or do you,

Speaker 4: (50:25)
Yeah. You can do on our website, brain health assessment.com. I can't remember if there's a fee or it's not, it doesn't cost very much to do. And you can measure where you're at as far as, you know, focus memory in different aspects. In the clinic we use something called web neuro and that's a web-based cognitive tests that people do is computerize and manage the tension memory. Also emotion. And this brain health assessment is the exact same test. So it's, it's, it's high quality. And there's pencil, paper tests and there's also labs that can be done to measure if there's damage to the pituitary gland. It's a whole other issue cause 25 to 50% of people with a history of brain injury have damage to the pituitary glands, your master hormone gland. Oh, and maybe a little more accessible.

Speaker 3: (51:19)
Let's dive into this. So hormone just came from. So all of the labs that you could do this with, you have, and how do you doctor into doing them?

Speaker 4: (51:30)
That's half the battle, isn't it? I would, I would just say, you know, bring in the research, there's plenty of studies showing that, you know this is very, some studies say 25, some say 50%, some say even more. If there's, you know, I've had a brain injury, this is what happens. And you can document that by measuring pituitary function and you know, it's, you can actually measure in a bloodwork pituitary hormones like for testosterone, the precursor or the stimulus is LH. And FSH. This is on the book too. It's in all the labs and stuff. For thyroid instead of having what normally is a high TSH and a low T three T four is actually low TSH and low T three T four, which means that the pituitary is not sending the signal to the thyroid gland.

Speaker 3: (52:23)
Oh wow. Is that, so is that causing the in the like more reverse T three and I'm not talking on the receptor or is it, Oh, you're very sophisticated knowledge. That's great. I'm impressed. I'm work out forward because this is part of month's problem and reverse T three. Yes. I've, I've been arguing with a doctor and, and again, I want a full panel and I cannot get a full panel three free T for me that's too bad. Do antibodies and TSH and T four and that's all I can get out of the law at the moment. So,

Speaker 4: (53:01)
Right. So if, if you do, if you just do a TSH, which is the standard for screening, that's not going to tell us really what's going on because you know, if it's low TSH they may say, Oh, you're fine. It's not too, you know, it's the kind of kiss is reverse where if it's low, you're hyperthyroid. If it's high, you're hyperthyroid typically. But if you're low plus your T three and T four low, it's pituitary issue actually. So that's important to know. Any case looking at act H and cortisol is for adrenal. And then of course testosterone for men, estrogen, pedestrian for women and LH, FSH. Those would probably be the main ones. And just say, Hey doctor, please, please test these labs. You may have to cut a pocket or whatever. I don't know if you have labs where you can just,

Speaker 3: (53:56)
We, yeah, we do have bicycle labs, but if you want anything, you know, it's things like cortisol I do regularly and that you have to pay for. So someone like, like mom was obviously got adrenal issues. So like things like estrogen, LH, GC, if it, if it's age in an older female, that would be, it's going to be high. You know, it's, it's different than, than I would I read. That's a very deep clinical question.

Speaker 4: (54:29)
I guess if it's low, then, then there's pituitary issues. It should be high in menopause after you're going to have high altitude. What happens is the S that the ovaries stop producing estrogen, but the brain thinks it's still, they still should be. So the brain sends a lot of LH and FSH down to the ovaries. And so it, that's how you know you're in menopause if you have high LH and FSH. So then if you measured those after menopause and it's really low, that would be very unusual. It would be, Oh, the pituitary is not working.

Speaker 3: (55:07)
And, and if it's the pituitary, it's not working. Is there anything you can do about that?

Speaker 4: (55:13)
Oh, great question. All of these things should help peel the pituitary. I'm actually balancing the hormones. So adding an estrogen, progesterone, testosterone looking at growth hormone. That's the other one I forgot to mention. If growth hormone is low, that's very common in pituitary damage. And can really, if you can increase growth hormone that helps with healing of the whole brain in the body. Best done through exercise again. And so, and then taking the supplements, putting the brain in a healing environment will help the pituitary to also heal. So that's the supplements diet, exercise, hyperbaric. So the hyperbaric is very helpful for pituitary damage as well.

Speaker 3: (56:01)
It's really good growth hormone. I'm actually taking a supplement. Is it, is there any danger with that in regards to cancer?

Speaker 4: (56:09)
I always talk with people about that. Like if you had a tumor and you have lots of growth hormone, you might potentially growth of the tumor. So that's like balancing the two. It's like, do we want lots of growth factors or do we want to keep, like there's this whole thing about low calorie diet and low IGF one, which is a marker for growth hormone. There's this field or you know, so it's really a balance of the two. It's not one or the other. I don't actually recommend people do growth hormone because you can become dependent on it and it's expensive. It's like over a thousand dollars a month, something like that. But you can again, exercise, there's supplements or nothing are Janine this product called tri amino. There's various companies that make it and there's three amino acids that are helpful in making growth hormone, taking it bedtime.

Speaker 3: (57:04)
Yup. [inaudible] Voicing that type of thing or,

Speaker 4: (57:07)
Yeah. I think it's arginine ornithine and there's one other, but it's three amino acids in particular without other amino acids. You just want those three and on an empty stomach. And if you're really going for it and talk about this in the book, but prior to exercise or empty stomach at night, cause you grow, produce most of your growth hormone at night when you're in deep sleep. That's why deep sleep is so, it's one of the reasons why it's so important.

Speaker 3: (57:35)
Wow. This is how people are listening. So I've just done a couple of podcasts, episodes on sleep and the importance of sleep and when you won't have enough sleep and growth hormone is one of those things. And your hormone regulation in general. I was going to go, Oh, sleep apnea. You mentioned the briefly or sleep disruption. Sleep apnea wasn't one of the big key mumps I worked at when I was in hospital when she, she's still in hospital. She'd been on oxygen Wellington and when they transplant her to new Plymouth, she was taking off the supplemental oxygen and I noticed a decline in who w what was already terrible but was even worse. And I tried to get him to put this up and legal bank box option back on and they wouldn't. And Avi headed with altitudes ricing and altitude.

Speaker 3: (58:35)
And I'd been in a hot code hypoxic tent at night with the oxygen. And I had like giving myself a hypoxic brain concussion a few years ago. Growing up too high too fast because I was impatient. I slept in a half thousand meters every night, all night, knocked off. A lot of brain cells have hypoxic rag pressure. And during that time when I did this, I had a whole lot of infections because the bacteria in the body oxygen deficit. And so I was recognizing some of these when she was in the hospital, still my brain went tick, tick, tick apnea, sleep apnea. Cause she was sleeping of course, 20, 21 hours a day. And the doc said, no, she don't, you don't need the sleep apnea test. And I went and got an outside consultant for him and I got in big trouble. I didn't really care resolving. He'd done a taste and it came, make some via sleep apnea. And, and from my research and the thesis there are a lot of people who are suffering from sleep apnea who are not aware that are suffering sleep apnea. Do you think this is a massive contributor to brain injury?

Speaker 4: (59:49)
Oh, absolutely. Brain problems in general. I think luckily people are recognizing it more and screening more and needs to be done. If your sleep, if you're sleeping a lot like your mom was, or not feeling rested or waking up at night a lot. In fact, my father who has had chronic sleep problems, I've tried to give him every supplement under the sun, can't seem to get his sleep under control. He just did a sleep study. It turns out he has mild sleep apnea and that was causing him to wake up frequently throughout the night.

Speaker 3: (01:00:20)
Wow, that's interesting, isn't it? And things like even like adrenal exhaustion, you know, your cortisol levels going up in the middle of the night, like that type of thing. I mean we w I'm very much into, you know, breathing exercises and front of the peat, the parasympathetic nervous system, blue blocking at night or what are those things that contribute to good health? And very important again, a tangent. We in our company we do epigenetic testing. And this looks like a genetics and how they're experiencing lightened. Well and one of the key things there is to understand what time of the day [inaudible] biology is very very important. So if your hormones are icing between five and six in the morning and you're getting up at 5:00 AM to do a CrossFit workout, that can be very detrimental to your health and smell. Look, dr [inaudible], I know that you've got to go shortly. I just want to wait. Can people reach out to you and I definitely want to talk to you further because this is isolating conversation. I think I've ever head in so exciting. I can't wait for the book to arrive in the post. We can people reach you. We can they get the book. And what are the next steps for people who are suffering from brain injury?

Speaker 4: (01:01:53)
Well, great. I've really enjoyed talking with you too. I can feel your passion and excitement to help others and that's where my heart's about to because your brain is like, that's everything. It's who we are. It's our personality. That's why I do this work is to help people recover and optimize their brain function. Because I want you to be able to share your gifts with the world and just be yourself and it's never too late like end with that. It's never too late to at least try and help heal your brain for brain injury. You and your mother are proof of that. I'm so excited to read your book as it comes out next month. Congratulations. You can find my book concussion rescue. It's out. Just released a January 28th on Amazon. There's an audible version for people and a listen to it. We recorded a a video series. It's available beginning of February on the book at Ayman university. It's available there. And I'm at amen clinics Northwest and Seattle. You can just Google that. Amen. Clinics, Northwest and Seattle location. There's clinics all around the country and

Speaker 3: (01:03:00)
Well I personally as well with people who have my own website. Yeah, I don't, I tried to and I'm not that tech savvy, so. Okay. You must, you must get you your age. I'm on Instagram and Facebook too. Excellent. So people can reach you. Doctor, dr Kabran Chapek, Chapek sorry. Concussion rescue. I will put, I'll get all those links from you, Dr. Cameron 16 with the audience. If I can help with any way, shape or form with getting this book out there. We've got to make this a best seller right around the world because this is, this is absolute crucial work that you're doing and I'm really, really, really sorry that I paid you all this. Thank you so much for your time today, dr Kevin. My pleasure. Great to be with you.

Speaker 3: (01:03:55)
You really enjoyed that interview with dr Chapek, make sure you go and get their book concussion rescue a must read for anyone with a brain really. And I also wanted to remind you my book relentless is coming out on the 11th of March and is available now for preorder. If you want to grab it, you're also going to get at the moment for the next couple of weeks excess to my mental toughness and mindset Academy if you buy the book and the next couple of weeks. So that's a value of $275 that course. So please go and check that out at least at lisatamati.com and hit on the shop button if you want to help with your health. With epigenetics, we have an eerie genetics testing program, which I mentioned briefly in the show. If you want to find out what that is all about, please head over to our programs page. We've got three flagship programs, we've got the mindset, you've got the epigenetics, and we've got the run training Academy, so please chicken all that out, head over to Lisatamati.com And don't forget to give them a show, a rating and review and share it with your friends. Thanks guys.

Speaker 1: (01:05:01)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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In this episode, Lisa discusses how the cards are stacked against us in our modern society when it comes to making healthy decisions. She talks about the disconnect between our prefrontal cortex and higher executive functions and the amygdala and why inflammation in the body can lower our ability to make logical good decisions. How sugar affects both our body, the inflammation process and how it shuts down or lessens the ability of our higher executive function. She talks about the effects of exercise and the effects of modern technology on our brain. Knowledge is power when we understand some of the processes hijacking our ability to make good decisions we can take steps to correct those and create an upward leading spiral that goes to more good decisions being made on a regular basis so you can reach your long term health and fitness and weight loss goals and wellbeing goals not to mention your productivity goals. She also talks about the importance of sleep and what a lack thereof will do your brain. Lisa also references the work of Dr's David and Austin Perlmutter and their new book "Brainwash" https://www.drperlmutter.com/brain-wash/ and the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton and his book "The Biology Of Belief" https://www.drperlmutter.com/brain-wash/ We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid?
When, and how often should you be eating?
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Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents.
These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.
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The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Develop mental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality -
Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
If your brain is not functioning at its best. Then check out the team at www.vielight.com do. Now being like producers, photo biomodulation devices, your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light, revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related decline issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurysm and stroke. So check out what the team do www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T .com and use the code T A M A T I and checkout to get 10% of any of their devices. Well hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits today. I have a solo cast, so no guests, but I wanted to do a short sort of episode around decision making processes and why sometimes we don't make the decisions that we want to make and why we're not always in control of the things that we want to do.

Speaker 2: (01:24)
So this time of the year, a lot of us have been sitting new year's goals and resolutions and we often find ourselves failing when it comes to actually doing those goals and doing what we sit out to do. And we come across some stumbling block blocks. And I've talked on previous podcasts about the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton and the biology of belief has Bach about the subconscious and how that can sometimes sabotage us in our ability to follow through with decisions that we make. But I wanted to go on a bit of a different tangent today and look at the work of Dr. David and Dr. Austin pill mortar who've just bought out a book called brainwash, which is also really worth a read. And these are, you know, when you start to, you know, I've been studying a lot obviously in the last four years about brain rehabilitation, controlling the brain and understanding the brain.

Speaker 2: (02:20)
And you get snippets of information from all of these great sources and starting to connect the dots with a lot of things. So why is it that we can, you know, set out to do things and then we don't do them. We set out to go to the gym, we sit out to get fit, we set out to lose weight and eat more healthily. And, and then on the first time that chocolate bar appears where we're gone and we're back to doing things we don't want to do. And this is a problem of, of, of the human condition I think. But if we understand that we stand to look into the decision making process and how we're those decisions, we can actually see how the cards are stacked against us in their modern society. Especially we'll start with, for example, our food supply.

Speaker 2: (03:11)
So our food supply is not what our grandparents had. It is full of processed foods. It is full of sugar apparently over about, and this isn't America or a statistic out of America that 68% of the foods and the supermarket, this is millions of products have added sugar. So even when we decide we're not going to have sugar, it's very, very hard to avoid some of the hidden sugars that are in things like you know, tomato sauces and things where you wouldn't actually expect to find sugar. And these are all forms of sugar. It's not just when you read sugar on the label, these are your corn syrups, these are your, you know, coconut sugars. This could be part of sugar. This is what you might consider even healthy options, but they are sugar, even fruit, dos and fruit. And so what does sugar do in the brain?

Speaker 2: (04:02)
Well, sugar, from an evolutionary point of view, our brains are wired to search out for sugar because when, when food is scarce as it was in the past and we are wanting to chase foods that are high in sugar because it gives us the energy and so on. The problem is we have so much sugar in our society and it's very addictive and they say it's as addictive as cocaine. But so one of the problems that we have when we, when we eat sugar, then a number of things are happening. We spiking our blood sugar levels and causing an insulin release and then we are liable to put on more weight as it gets stored in our fat stores. But there's a whole lot of other things going on. There's inflammation happening in the body when we take on way too much sugar and this is affecting our ability to make good decisions.

Speaker 2: (04:58)
Now, why is that? Well, in the brain we have something called the prefrontal cortex, which is where you are your executive function, your, your logical brain sets. And then we have what they call the limbic brain. And in particular, the amygdala, which is your, it's an older part of the brain and it's much more impulsive. It's the, it's the, it's like the alarm system. It's always looking for threats and it's always impetuous and it's always, it's the one that will hijack you. For example, you get angry in traffic and it's the one that has you swearing before you even know and what you're doing. It's the one that reacts faster than your prefrontal cortex. Now, when you have a lot of sugar, there is a disconnect between the prefrontal cortex and the limbic brain and the amygdala. And the amygdala comes to the fore in the prefrontal cortex.

Speaker 2: (05:50)
And its decision making and its executive function is lowered. So what does means for us is that we then become more prone to making very short term, short viewed decisions. So this becomes in a spiral. So we start to make unhealthy choices. So the more sugar we consume, the more likely we are to consume more and to do things that are not good for us. In tunes off or lowers the executive function. And that amygdala and this way sort of hijacks us from what we want to be doing with our logical brain. We've decided we don't want as much sugar, we want to have a healthy for foods, we want to be healthier. But along comes to the amygdala and it overpowers us and the inflammation that's caused by sugar will cause us to make more of those decisions. Now, there are lots of other things that are influencing our decision making ability.

Speaker 2: (06:46)
Hormones for example. An interesting fact with the contraceptive pill that woman, so many women are on been doing a lot of research into that lately too. And that can have a very big effect on your decision making ability. All our hormones were very, very, you know, chemical based beings that a lot of what we do is influenced by these sorts of things. We all know what happens when we have alcohol or turns off our, our logical thinking brain and we do dumb things. And that's another example of the amygdala being stronger in that case in taking over. And it's like having, if you like, it's like the parents being away on holiday while the kids at home running the ship. And of course the kids are going to make decisions that are bad because they're not looking at it with a longterm view or with a maturity.

Speaker 2: (07:39)
And with intelligence and longterm thinking, a child just looks at the next 30 seconds of pleasure and makes that decision. And that's what's happening in the brain. And when we have a lot of sugar in our diet, that's one of the things that's happening. So this becomes then a spiral, not only a physiological spiral are the, you know, you're raising your blood sugar levels, you are causing an insulin release, you are dropping your blood sugar levels and then next causing cravings. But also this part of the brain is being turned off as the prefrontal cortex or its function as being lowered. And so we're less likely to make more good decisions. Now, by the same token, this sort of process is going along with exercise as well. So we all know exercise is good for us. We, we all know that and we don't necessarily all do enough exercise.

Speaker 2: (08:32)
And again, this becomes a spiral. So the more exercise we do, the more connection we have with our prefrontal cortex and the more ability we have to make good decisions. Once again, once again, the parents are at home. When we're have been doing more exercise, we have an ability to control ourselves better and to make better decisions. So that's one of the thousands of it reasons why we should be exercising. When we exercise, we produce more brain derived neurotrophic factor. Another really important reason we are detoxifying as we swear to and as we pump the blood around, there's so many reasons why we should be exercising. But of course it all comes down to the fact that we don't always feel like it. And if we've been eating better than we, we're even less likely to feel like it. And that amygdala is again going to override our decision making process.

Speaker 2: (09:27)
They actually go out and do the exercise that we said we're going to do today. And then in regards to exercise, sometimes we set ourselves up for failure. We like, right, I'm going to go to the gym five days a week for the rest of the year. Or, you know, I'm going to run a marathon and I'm going to train really, really hard and I'm going to do this right. And then we sit the bar so high that if we are unable to actually attain the required training a day, say I've decided I'm going to spend an hour a day in the gym and today I've been so busy that I've only got half an hour. And so I decided not to go at all. Now as it is always better to have that incremental amount of exercise even if it's not the full amount. So even if my day is gone totally to custard and I'm really, really busy, which happens quite often in my life, a 10 minute walk in the park is better than none.

Speaker 2: (10:20)
It's better than doing no exercise. And so sometimes having a ah, it's not worth me going cause I've only got half an hour. There is actually a detrimental attitude. You know what you can get in, okay, you didn't reach what was on the list today, but you got 10 minutes out of that hour and that 10 minutes is better than nothing. Another thing that I wanted to discuss is our modern technologies and our screen time. And we all know that technology is all pervasive in our lives and it has wonderful, wonderful implications for us and empowers us and has changed the way we live our lives. But it's also very insidious in that a lot of the apps and a lot of the things that we do online are made to be addictive. And so often, you know, I find myself doing this myself, you know, I have a job to do.

Speaker 2: (11:11)
I go online to answer an email or to go to messenger and answer somebody's inquiry. And then I find myself off somewhere looking at somebody's social media feed and end up in places I don't want to. And that time has been lost and it's so easy to be distracted and just led down this path. And then that takes up time and energy from our brains. And we are also spending just so many hours in front of a computer screens, TV screens every which way. And this is causing structural changes in our brains. And of course this is very much so, you know, affecting children. And I don't really think we've even scratched the surface of what this is going to have in the long term. We really don't know, but it's going to be major, that's for sure. The changes that our children's brains going to have in comparison to how we grow up.

Speaker 2: (12:08)
So some putting some parameters around your technology use of possible, if this is an area that is becoming a problem for you, they say that over 70% of the world's population has got a smartphone now and over 6% of the entire population has an addiction to the internet in some way, shape or form. And this is a problem that's growing and you will all know, you know, Instagram, Facebook ENCO made to pull you in. They want you to spend as much time as possible on the reps. That's how they make the money. And we need to be aware of this and be very intentional with our use of it and just observe our behavior on screens and how much is it actually bringing us? Is it bringing us a knit good effect as puts it? Is it actually bringing us the desired results that we are wanting?

Speaker 2: (13:01)
Or when you say, you know, I'm going to get fitter and then you say, but I haven't got the time to train. And then you look at the screen time, if you recorded your whole day, how much of that screen time was actually work-related and actually bringing you something and how much was actually just lost in the chaos of the social media world or the YouTube or whatever. And when we start to look at the amounts of time that we are spending on those sorts of things instead of doing the other things and not prioritizing. So putting some time constraints, certainly around your children's time in front of screens, but also around yourself some time, some intentionality when it comes to what am I here to do? And staying on target and not ending up somewhere completely different, which you know, is a battle.

Speaker 2: (13:50)
I bet all with us every day when I've got a hundred windows open and I don't feel like doing the thing that I'm meant to do, I often find myself off somewhere just staring at some newsfeed or some Instagram feed or whatever. So it's being aware that this is happening to our brains and this is making us wasting a lot of our time, a lot of our energy and causing action with structural changes in the way our brains function. The last point I wanted to bring up is, is around, or the second the last actually is around a connection to nature. I think it's super important. It's a proven fact that when we're out in nature or say in the, in the forest and the Bush somewhere up on a mountain down by the sea that has a calming effect on our body and turns our parasympathetic nervous system on and slows down the response of stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline.

Speaker 2: (14:49)
And so having time in nature, even if you're not doing the exercise, you're just hanging out in nature, staring at the trees, the beautiful flowers, whatever it is that you really connect to and having that time every day and having that prioritized in your schedule. You know, I started to, you know like I have a very heavy heavy workload and I feel guilty every time I go to just sit at the beach or go to go for a run in the pack because I could be doing a thousand other jobs. I could work 24, seven and the jobs would still be piling up. And I have to know that I have to prioritize and that it's okay for me to prioritize those other things because they will make me more productive in the long run. And I'll have our, we have much more used to everybody if I've had my time in nature and just being as a human being was meant to be connected to nature, outside moving in nature, exercising in nature, having some sunshine on my skin, getting my vitamin D three, all of those things are starting to become more and more scarce in our life as we are in artificial environments all day with our jobs behind screens.

Speaker 2: (16:01)
And then all night. And then we are often turning to, you know, self-medicating at night with, with things like alcohol, sugar, food and all. This is a spiral that leads us down. And so the odds can be stacked against us, but it's up to us to understand the brain and to start to use the information to give us a hand up out of the spiral downwards. And once you start taking little steps. I know, you know like I worked with a lot of clients. We were working through different health issues with our epigenetics program and often they want the big effect, they want to have it all perfect and that's really important to come back and actually just tackle one or two things at a time. It might be getting out in nature more. It might be a little less time on the screen. There might be doing those things before you even consider an exercise or a diet change and you can't do it all at once.

Speaker 2: (16:56)
You can't. It's too much. It's overwhelming. But when you start to make one or two steps that are healthier for you, that are getting you more on track, that are helping you strengthen your prefrontal cortex and your executive function and your ability to make good decisions, then it becomes easier to instigate the other changes that come after that, the food choices that are better, the exercise choices there to be there. And that leads me onto my last topic for the day. And that is the lack of sleep, a lack of sleep. We sometimes Palm off as just being, you know, one of the ills of our world and we have busy lives. Maybe you're a shift worker and your circadian rhythms are all up the watch. Now this has massive implications for our health, our brain health for S for sure. And also all of our hormone production, our circadian rhythms as beings, we have a rhythm, we have a clock.

Speaker 2: (17:52)
Every cell in their body is on a clock and we have an internal clock that has the times we meet to be asleep. The times we meant to be awake, the times we should be exercising, the times when we are most alert and understanding your chronobiology. And this is where epigenetics and the program that we do helps define for us what you, your right chronobiology is and then working out what time of the day should I be doing what and getting enough sleep is a huge priority. We need as human beings, seven to eight hours. And a lot of people say that, Oh, I get by on, I get by on five to six or four to five, which is, yeah, you'll get away with it for a little while, but I can guarantee you you're going to start losing brain cells. You're going to start your, you're increasing your risk of dementia later in life for Alzheimer's.

Speaker 2: (18:45)
You are by sleep deprivation. Anyone who's only getting four to six hours sleep a night on Everage a statistic and I can't, I can't tell you where the statistics from. So I hope I'm getting it right. But on average, a, you'll be eating more calories if you are not having enough sleep. And there's a couple of reasons for this. You're not producing enough grelin, which is sort of like your hunger that controls your hunger. So you're more likely to have those cravings. You're more likely to eat more and 350 calories a day extra onto your normal diet will mean weight gain. That's little loan from the fact that you're not getting the rest and repair and recovery that you need in order to function properly. To have the right hormones and all of these things will affect your metabolism and your, your your thyroid and all your hormone production.

Speaker 2: (19:39)
So getting enough sleep. If there was one thing that you changed in your life at the moment, if you don't want to take your food, you don't know to take your exercise regime, you don't want to do anything else getting out in nature or anything. If you prioritized and made it a priority for your whole family to get more sleep. And if you're struggling with insomnia, then go back over my old past podcast, I've had a number of podcasts on sleep and insomnia and how to work on, on those sorts of things. And I can do another one on that. But if you can get more sleep, if you can get to bed half an hour earlier, turn off the damnit flux. And this is something I struggle with too, when I'm relaxing in the evening and I want to binge watch something instead of going to bed.

Speaker 2: (20:26)
Just understanding that having an extra half hour of sleep, an extra hour of sleep will make a massive difference to your health, to your ability to function for your product. Tivity for your hormonal health, for your metabolism, for your immune system. All of these repair processes are when you're a sleeping. So if you're exercising hard and you're training for something big, but you're not getting enough sleep, then you're not going to be getting the effect that you could be getting out of that training. Same goes for if you're eating perfectly, but you're not getting enough sleep, you're not going to have the benefit of that food to its full effect. So prioritizing sleep is really, really, really crucial. Okay? Can't emphasize that enough. So we've covered off sleep, we've covered off exercise, we've covered off your executive fund, front function and your brain, your prefrontal cortex, your amygdala, how that can hijacked your, your logical thinking brain, how sugar affects us, how modern technologies affect this.

Speaker 2: (21:32)
So I hope that this has given you some insights and some things to consider as you go throughout your day. Now just pick one or two of these aspects. Go back over, listen to this again cause there's a lot that I've just covered in a very short period of time. Pick one or two that you want to work on this week. Even one, even just if it's one might be slightly more exercise, it might be, I'm trying to cut down on the sugar intake and the processed food and take, even if you haven't got the perfect diet and even if you haven't got the perfect exercise, work, edit an incremental stages, don't go for perfection. Do all that. All those perfectionists out there. Perfectionism is the enemy, a pro progress because you'll be waiting to, everything's perfect and that is never going to happen. Just make a start with some very small steps.

Speaker 2: (22:24)
I hope this information has been fantastic for you. I hope it's given you something to think about. Go and check out that book, brainwashed by Dr. David and Dr. Austin Perlmutter. And go and check out the biology of belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton. They'll give you incredibly good insights. My book of course, is coming out relentless. On the 11th of March and is available now for preorder. So if you want to hit over and grab a copy of that, I've got a real special going on at the moment to get the ball rolling to kickstart and get some momentum. I have given people access to my mindset, mental toughness Academy mindset. You for free. If you preorder the book it won't ship until the limits of March, but if you preorder it now you get a few dollars off the price, $29 instead of 35 and you get my mental toughness course, which is valued at $275.

Speaker 2: (23:19)
It's a grab that while you can just in the next couple of weeks and help me get relentless out the door and spread the word about that, which is all about my mum's journey back from massive brain injury and her brain rehabilitation. But it's also a book about mindset and overcoming obstacles and mental toughness and resilience and the, you know, elevating our potential as humans to, to adapt and perform. So if you want to check that out, head on over to Lisatamati.com At the shop button go to my book section and you can preorder that now. Thanks guys for listening again today. If you enjoy the content, please share this with a friend. It helps us get exposure and give us a rating and review on iTunes. That would be really, really appreciated and we'll see you again next week.

Speaker 1: (24:10)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team At lisatamati.com.

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Boomer Anderson hails from the USA but has lived and worked in many countries and cities from Wall St to Singapore to Amsterdam among others.

After graduating from the University of Minnesota, Boomer pursued his first love (finance) through a successful career in investment banking in New York and Singapore. Always desiring to learn more and pursue his second love (health), Boomer left finance to found a successful clinical practice leveraging data to help entrepreneurs and executives achieve better performance through health.

He continues to pursue his joint loves of health and finance through early-stage startup investments, advisory roles, and public speaking. In his free time, Boomer enjoys experimenting with the latest in performance technologies, travel, adventure, and spending time with his girlfriend.

He had a fast-paced career in investment banking and venture capital. Helping countries and companies raise funding. He lived life in the extreme both in the high flying career world and in his sporting endeavors, doing an extreme amount of traveling and long days and living on very little sleep thinking he was bulletproof until a serious heart condition stopped him in his tracks at age 30. Since then he pivoted and in his quest to heal himself has become over the years an expert in health optimization, biohacking, data tracking in relation to health and much more. He shares his deep insights into the exciting world of the quantified self, the power of data and testing for health and the change in paradigm that is happening in the world on biotech. Boomer is also a podcaster and has a top 100 rated show many countries. His show is Decoding Superhuman and you can reach out to Boomer at www.decodingsuperhuman.com and follow him on instagram and facebook. He is also partner in Dr Ted Achacoso's www.homehope.org which is a complete new system looking at the holobiont and metbolome for health optimisation. We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid?
When, and how often should you be eating?
What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?
Discover the social interactions that will energize you and uncover your natural gifts and talents.
These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.
There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalized health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with! No more guesswork.
The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.
The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/mindsetuniversity/ Develop mental strength, emotional resilience, leadership skills and a never quit mentality -
Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Once again to pushing the limits before we get underway with this week's very special guests. Just like to remind you, if you don't mind doing me a big favor and giving this podcast or writing a review on iTunes, that would be hugely, hugely helpful and helps us show where the ratings and exposure so we get exposed to more people and more listeners so we can get our message out there. So really, really appreciate your help. If you want help also with your running or with your health optimization or you want help with mental toughness coaching, check out all our flagship programs over at Lisatamati.com. Hit the programs button and you'll be able to find out all about our running hot coaching, our epigenetics in the mental toughness mindset you e-course right now. Today's guest is sitting in Amsterdam and he is an incredible person who has a background actually in investment banking and finance. But has now done a completely one 80 pivot into health optimization. Someone who has a, she has a lot of interests with what I do, and I know you're going to get a huge amount of value out of this interview. So without further ado, over to boomer Anderson.

Speaker 3: (01:25)
Well, everybody needs to tell me to here and welcome back once again to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you with us again. I'm super excited for today's interview. I have a very, very special guest who is the host of something called a podcast called decoding superhuman. And you guys have to check this out. This gentleman is sitting in Amsterdam, which is a first for me. I haven't had anyone from my son's name. He's actually so welcome to the show boomer Anderson. Welcome. I'd really

Speaker 4: (01:54)
Release a thank you for having me. This is an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 3: (01:58)
Oh, it's so cool to have you. So boomer and I have connected other, the love for podcasting really and through an audio engineer of all things, Roy Roy, Roy helped me and taught me. And Burma is, it does stuff that's right up my alley. So very much a expert on human performance and in many seats is other word. And his, a podcast as a seed called decoding superhuman and has a very interesting backstory as well. So boomer, let's start with a little bit about we from who you are and your you know, your, your career before you got into this.

Speaker 4: (02:40)
Oh, how long did we actually have here? So let's start with the beginning, right. And then, because you mentioned that I love all things performance just like you do. And that's absolutely the truth. And it started from a very young age, you know, growing up I had the benefits of the son of a yoga teacher on one side and then a finance professional on the other. So I had this kind of eats me at East meets West growing up experience. And you know, I was been obsessed with performance from a young age, whether it was academics or athletics, it was always, how do you push it to that next level. We can talk about it later, but sometimes that hurts when you push it to the next level.

Speaker 4: (03:25)
And you know, that next level led me to go to college in Minnesota and then eventually work on wall street after two years in New York and I, I was in New York at times that people don't want to be in New York. Right? Like my first day on wall street was the day that Lehman brothers filed for bankruptcy and AIG gets nationalized. Oh my gosh. Hell of a first day. Right. And so my career path kind of changed forever. And after two years I've moved to Singapore where at a very young age I became the head of a, a deck capital market stuff covering South Asia. And so my responsibility was 14 different countries helping companies and governments raise money across the world. Yeah. That all sounds amazing and glamorous. And I had the pleasure of traveling to 40 countries over the course of four years, basically living on a plane.

Speaker 4: (04:19)
And that entire time I thought I was healthy. Right. Because if you read men's health, have you read whatever it is, whatever those fitness magazines are, they tell you that diet and exercise are all that really matters. And you know, I was one of these guys who not following whatever the diet your was, I've probably tried them all with the exception of maybe being vegan. And then I was also very into a sport called CrossFit. And I pushed, I know there's a very, there's a very strong theme that I think reverberates in both of our lives is that I pushed everything to the extreme, whether that be work, whether that be play, whether that be exercise. And so, you know, I was the guy who was like, I'm going to work this investment banking career, get you know, from the age of 18 to 30 is getting four to six hours of sleep per night.

Speaker 4: (05:10)
And I'm going to try and work out like rich Froning because I had a goal of beating rich Froning and the CrossFit games delusional goal, but it was a goal. And so, you know, go bigger, go home. Right? And so this eventually has a wall that I hit, but I've had, and we can talk about that wall here in a second, but there's this constant reverberating theme of trying to elevate performance. I now consider it my mission in life to elevate the human experience through health. And I look at that through a number of different lenses and a result of the learnings on the journey, so to speak come up with a fairly elegant system in order to help others do this. Wow,

Speaker 3: (05:58)
That's a, that's a nutshell. A pretty amazing life. So investment banker in the finance world, I mean, that's a dream for many young people to get into that, that world was, is just idea for us. A short second. Did that burn the hell out of you? You know, physically, obviously traveling all the time, but also the meeting side and the pressure in that game.

Speaker 4: (06:23)
Sure. So let's talk about that because most of the rumors you hear about investment banking or Kennedy true. When I started in investment banking, I lived mainly in the office. And frankly that changed over time. But it was more, I lived with a cell phone instead of in the office. And you know, I've spent many a night where it was okay, you worked the entire night, go home, change your clothes and come back into work the next morning. I've slept in a desk. I've done many times where I've gone into this is actually embarrassing Lisa, and I can't believe I'm telling you this story. But like I went into, I went into the bathroom, put my legs up and fell asleep to get 20 minutes of sleep. Right? And so just like in those kind of extremes produce extreme results. And so you know, you, he pushed your body to the limits.

Speaker 4: (07:19)
And of course as you get more and more senior, there's the stress of you have to meet a budget, you have to worry about a coworker stabbing you in the back. All of these things. But the experience itself of, and I was helping companies and governments raise money and experience of itself, of being able to look at how a country funds itself and saying like, Hey, I had an impact on that. And there's one or two countries that I can point to and say I had a significant impact on how they fund themselves even till today is pretty rewarding. But yeah, the stress is ridiculous. And so let's talk about some of the warning signs, so to speak. Right. And so one of those warning signs I collapsed in my shower just from exhaustion. I've been to the hospital more than once for exhaustion.

Speaker 4: (08:11)
I've had parasites. I was traveling to places like India, Bangladesh, all these things, parasites. I was vomiting. I was, you know, falling asleep at my desk. All of this stuff. I was doing three, four and a half hour red eyes from DACA and going into the office the next day. All of these things you can add, you can look at it and say like, Hey, any, any person with any reasonable level of intelligence could have looked at this from afar and said, at some point this kid is going to go head first into a wall. But that kid wasn't willing to admit it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (08:48)
Well you live in, you live in that world where it's expected, this hard performance is, you know, 24, seven, the labels of your anxiety must've terrific.

Speaker 4: (09:00)
Terrific. Yeah. And I've you know, it's something that I talk about openly now and it took me awhile to talk about it openly, but I've had issues with panic attacks you know, getting in front of people and you know, starting to sweat for no apparent reason. Just extreme nerves at an occasion. And then when you start breaking your circadian rhythm, cause I was traveling time zones all the time, right? Like I was doing, I went to Europe one year, 18 times from Singapore. So that's that's already a six to seven hour time change. I went to from Asia to the U S six to seven times in one year as well. And so you're talking about like my circadian rhythm was not existing. And so like I developed social anxiety, I developed anxiety around people and it just became this one big ball of anxiety.

Speaker 4: (09:52)
And you just kind of look at different ways to deal with it. You know, at that point I was self-medicating mainly through alcohol, but it's so medicated through alcohol and CrossFit, you know, I was just looking for anything to escape. Right. And, and so like, I had this brilliant job and I, I don't think I appreciated it at the time, but I got this brilliant job and I was like just stressed. And you know, there were times when I was younger in New York where I just walked down on the street and pray that like a taxi cab would hit me because I would get some sleep in a hospital. Right. And it's just, yeah, I guess to answer your question, yes,

Speaker 3: (10:34)
It's a little bit stressful. It's a little bit stressful and to show up and, you know approach you for being open about this because this is the, this is what my podcast is known for and we tell the real shit here and we died and I've had panic attacks, I've had anxiety, I've had depression, I've, you know, been in shitty relationships. I've lost all my money and revoke myself. I've, you know, I've been there and the people know that the dramas that I've gone through, and I think the power lies when you share those shitty moments and you share the difficulties that you went through because the learning is in the air for the people that are listening that we have really can shortcut the people, you know, not repeating the same problems to go. That is the whole point. And to, to be able to you know, withstand that huge amount of pressure and to, to live at that high performance level. And I totally get your mentality of, you know, go hard and go home and extreme and and when you're young, you're Bulletproof, you're Bulletproof and nothing can break me. But I know in your story that came to a crushing sort of how to, at some stage it's go into that story a little bit.

Speaker 4: (11:47)
Yeah. So the silver bullet, so to speak, came shortly after my 30th birthday and I was one of these people. So for a very long time we were talking about how I grew up kind of East meets West and realize that health had a, an input in this idea of performance, particularly workplace performance. And I'm pretty nerdy when it comes to data. And so I actually calculated what was my return on health investment. So I would invest X amount in health per year and would get X amount growth in my bonus, so to speak. It wasn't a direct correlation, but it was just a way to justify what I was spending on these things. And I, you know, I'll caveat this by saying I wasn't necessarily spending it in the right way. I was spending on things that like Tim Ferris recommended or whoever, Dave Asprey in those days, actually it was the early days of day out.

Speaker 4: (12:38)
And Dave asked for even before them and as a part of this little esoteric forum on the internet called quantified self. And so I became very interested in the idea of if I monitor this data point about myself and it can be subjective or it could be something like my aura ring that I'm wearing now, you know, how do I take that information and apply it to perform better in my life? And again, for a long time I wasn't doing this in the right way. And so, you know, I was spending all this money and for my 30th birthday I was on the verge of resigning at this point from my job because you know, I done already gotten so much in investment banking and at that point everybody is quitting to build apps. And I was just like, I'm going to build an app.

Speaker 4: (13:25)
I didn't really have a good idea, but like I'm going to build an app. And so in the process of resigning, I went in and got all of these tests and one of those tests was actually calcium score and the calcium came back as positive. Now, as a 30 year old having calcium in your heart, I was at a 95% risk of a cardiac event. And so I had a blockage of my left anterior descending artery. Like any person who gets diagnosed with heart disease, what do they do? They give you a Staton? Well, the Staten induced chest pain so much so that I could barely walk down. If you're familiar with Singapore, there's this area called call your key and it's basically you go from Tanjong pagar over to my office and I was walking down that street and like gripping my chest in pain.

Speaker 4: (14:15)
And I said to the cardiologist at the time, you know, Hey, I think this has something to do with this stat. And he said, no, and you know, I don't fault him at this point because the education wasn't necessarily there, but now there are genetics that are associated with stat and the do chest pain. So I'd take, I stopped taking this, the Staton because it wasn't really a cholesterol issue in the first place. And really the pain went away. And so that was kind of the aha moment. Like, Hey, there's this data out there and I had it from my 23 and me test. That's not an advertisement for 23 meters. It was just like the easiest just to give them time. And I realized like, Hey, what else can I do with this stuff? And that was kind of how I went from, well there's a whole journey there on how do I make sure I don't die. But also as I was making sure I don't die, people were like, Hey, this is interesting. Can you do it for me? And that was really what became my, my transition.

Speaker 3: (15:22)
Wow. And now this is so interesting cause isn't it funny when you have either a personal evangelism, not my case with my, my family and my mum. That it just totally changes your, the lens that you're looking through. And as in you have a huge intimate thank you. That's very kind of listen to your podcast, but you have to have a huge intellect, you know, and I'm struggling half the time to keep up. But anyway. So you've taken that huge intellect that you applied, excuse me, to the finance world and you've gone, even though you're not a doctor or anything like that, you've gone into plot all that data and that ability to analyze data across into a new world now, which is what I find fascinating that you've made this transition and I've seen a number of other professionals through this as well who have suddenly gone into the world of health and understanding that the knowledge is now, you know, coming and out there and the, you've, you've gone across from the investment side now into the health side and quantifying it all and using data and using genetics and using all the other tools to now actually helping people with their health, then there'd be a good summary of what you're doing now.

Speaker 4: (16:37)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the underlying theme there, and actually before I get into the underlying theme it's just funny, a story came to mind, Lisa, the other day I was talking to a friend and the friend said, you know, the best psychologists all have some sort of underlying psychological issue that they've worked on. And that's why they became psychologists, right? I never intended to be in this world at all. I was going, like I said, I was going to build an app because everybody built apps, right? And I got into this world because I had to fix myself. And as I was fixing myself, I did it in something that made sense to me, which was data. So very strict measurement, very much defining objective strategies and tactics and executing with a certain level of discipline. Cause like we talked about earlier, you and I take things to extreme, right? So you know, just taking it to a certain level of extreme with the discipline side of things. So I see things a lot better.

Speaker 3: (17:37)
Yeah. Amazing. So you've now actually made a new empower, if you like, around helping people with high-performance, helping people with their health issues using the lightest. And this is what I find fascinating and we're, I think the future is turning to the old model of you had to go to medical school to become a doctor, to become an expert in health. And that was pretty much it. You were a nurse, a doctor or a you ma. Maybe there was a chiropractor or a naturopath in your town or something like that, but they were, you know, re era. And there was this, this linear thing thinking to the medical model and that is dying. Thank God is changing. We made the allopathic medicine model, but we also need it to change and we need the what would you call them? Accelerate viewpoints because, and you don't necessarily have to have gone to medical school and to have some really amazing insights.

Speaker 3: (18:43)
I mean you just mentioned Dave Asprey, the who, you know, some of the things I agree with and some of them I don't, but like he has certainly blazed the path for someone who's not himself, a medical doctor who's also come from, can walk computer science and his case into the, to the world of health and applied that, that brain and that, that ability and so a new area and you see this happening again and again. So what are you passionate about now? So you have the podcast decoding, superhuman, you have some incredible guests on there. What is it all about for you now?

Speaker 4: (19:22)
Sure. I guess before I outline what I'm involved in, what I'm doing, let's construct the theme to have it all makes sense, right? If you look at my personal mission, at least to what it's become over the past couple of years, it's to elevate the human experience through health. Now what do I mean by that? Elevating the human experience making, are enjoying our personal lives, enjoying our work lives, operating a certain level of energy, being compassionate being in, in shape, in the sense that, you know, extending health span, all of that is elevating the human experience. And the best way I know how to do that is through health. And so when I say that, that's the, the underlying theme of everything that I do. Now, you just mentioned one thing that I do, which is the podcast and the decoding super even podcast is top 100 business and careers podcast on iTunes and several different countries occasionally the U S as well, but also it let's go kind of from left to right.

Speaker 4: (20:34)
I do have the one to one consulting business where I work with predominantly entrepreneurs and executives through a process called health optimization. I'll come back to that in a moment. I work with an organization called health optimization medicine and practice. And that's a nonprofit foundation founded by my mentor, Dr Ted Achacoso's, which is basically U S and now I'm opening up the European arm here and there'll be an Australia, there'll be an an that arm as well. And it's kind of going global now in 2020 and then I, I do have some involvements and a, a nootropic which is going to be launched later this month. And I can talk about that too. So there's, there's a lot going on and there's more projects in the waiting, but you know, people look at me and say like, Hey, are you doing too much? Well, I view it all as complimentary.

Speaker 4: (21:28)
I'm just sort of solving my problems along the journey. Right? And so if I look at the one-to-one business, I only work with executives and entrepreneur types whether that be in digital marketing or whatever industry it is, because I know that lifestyle and I came from that lifestyle. And so I can speak a lot to that lifestyle. There's certain lifestyles that I just can't speak to, I can't work with, but we apply a rigorous amount of data. And perhaps Lisa says, okay, if I go down the health optimization realm right now cause I'm interested in more than anything and this wraps. Sure. So let's, let's talk about health optimization. And so as I mentioned this is all something that I'm spreading the word on through an organization called health optimization medicine and practice homehope.org. And so and so that organization is designed to teach doctors and health practitioners on how to optimize for health.

Speaker 4: (22:29)
If we think about why we go to a doctor currently, and I have nothing against doctors, right? I have zero qualms with the medical industry at all. It's people go to the doctor because they're sick because they want to get better from some disease. They want to discover what diseases, et cetera. But who are you going to for your maintenance? Right? Who are you going to for the tuneup if you're that car, we don't have anybody that just does the oil change and sends you on your way. Well, health optimization, medicine and practice is that oil change. And so what do I do now with my entrepreneurs? My executives is, look, I, I still have and gather a lot of data. I'm very comfortable with data, but I also think because we now have the ability to test for a number of different things, it's the best way out there because not only can we just assign probability, which is what we can do with genetics, we can actually see where your cells are right now.

Speaker 4: (23:31)
And that's through the metabolome. So when we start working with a client, what we're doing is we're measuring the levels of metabolites. We're looking at things like nutrients and hormones, we're comparing those to optimal ranges. And I'll define what optimal ranges is in a second. And then we're balancing really through the idea of a network. So rather than just taking one esoteric biomarker and focusing on it, I'm looking to upgrade an entire network. Because if you take one esoteric biomarker, all you're going to do is just Jack the thing out of balance again. And so what we want to do, you don't kind of ad hoc overhauling network, you balance networks. And so what we're actually doing is we're measuring those metabolite levels and looking at nutrients and hormones and then we're balancing that by looking at really what your optimal formo levels as well as nutrient levels should be through a 21 to 30 year old.

Speaker 4: (24:30)
Now I'm not a doctor so I can't prescribe hormones and so what do I do is I focus on the nutrient side of things. There are certain things I can do on the hormone side and there's oftentimes where I pair up with physicians and do focus on optimizing in that way, but that is where we're looking at is how do we upgrade your network so that your nutrients are balanced and so that you're able to perform at your absolute best. Now there's no claims there. I'm not saying that this anything here is treating disease. We're not doing that. All we're doing is giving your body maintenance and that allows you to perform at your best for longer and with a longer degree of health span

Speaker 3: (25:11)
In longevity, and this is absolutely Misa below mix. This is a new term that since listening to your podcast and coming across dr [inaudible] in, in starting to delve into his world, which is sine amazing. And this is providing a new lens to look through and looking. So this is even an hour practice with our company. We do epigenetic testing and if we, we have certain limitations, we can't go outside of our scope of practice and we have to bring in sometimes physicians and other experience in areas and that can be quite difficult. Certainly lock in more streamlined way of doing that and could be the people to work with. A little bit limited here where we are. But this is a, another lens to look through and I'm, I'm really wanting to layer on, you know, you have the expertise in like you've done with the genetics tasting and things like aura ring and using different data points and now your board and dr Ted's whole way of looking at it.

Speaker 3: (26:26)
And I, I, I have to talk to you privately afterwards about what it to, to become involved with that because I'm quite excited. I'm hoping I'd have the intellect to do it, to be honest on listening. Like, Oh my gosh, that guy is intelligent. He's a, he's a ball. He's statistically one of the smartest people in the world. So yeah, the Turlock, he is literally one of the top people in the planet. So that's what I'm saying. Everyone can keep up with it. But so what are the, you're working mostly in these cases still on the one on one system or are you sort of doing this for, can people contact you to get help or how does they work?

Speaker 4: (27:10)
I generally work with the, and the website hasn't been updated in a while and it will hopefully be up to it very soon. But I generally work one-to-one with people and it's almost strictly referral. But on occasion I do take in new clients. And so what we do is we do measure that metabolome and that. So let's just define those terms. Right? And so if you think about genetics, genetics is really popular, really sexy right now as is that the genetics and genetics is really the blueprint of where you should be, right? If you think about putting together a building, a, it's the blueprint of where you should be. It's that architect has drawn something fancy up. And I had the pleasure of doing one of these presentations to a group here in Amsterdam and there's actually a construction person in the audience. And I asked him, how many times does the blueprint actually end up as the actual house?

Speaker 4: (28:02)
And much to my amazement, I thought it would be somewhere in the range of like 10 to 30%. So zero. And you think about that, what actually influences the building? It was environmental factors. It was the soil, it was material. They'll ability. Now if you passport that over into our lives. Environmental factors are certainly something that we face every day. Material availability in terms of the nutrients that we need the weather outside, whether or not you gain enough sun and that's really your epigenome, right? And so we can keep going further and further down. The Omix line is, Oh, mix is very trendy right now too. And we can eventually get to this thing called the metabolome. And so the metabolome is really looking at yourselves and seeing what is happening right now and what has happened. And so what do I mean by that?

Speaker 4: (28:57)
We look at metabolites again across nutrients and hormones and we can determine things like vitamin deficiencies but also looking at anything from neuro-transmitters, although that's a little bit less reliable to heavy metal toxicities. And so, and then once we have all that information, what we can do is very much quite clot, a precise roadmap. And each one of my clients gets with is basically like a 10 to 15 page, a nutrient and lifestyle plan. And what they do is we're able to come very close and become very precise as to what nutrients you need to balance that network. Because after all, we're coming back to balancing the network. I can give another analogy if you want. Sure. So if you think about humans as as a whole, we're actually a collection of organisms. And what is interesting about the term super organism is the term superorganism really just means your collection of the same organism.

Speaker 4: (30:03)
The actual term that I prefer to use and was taught to me of course by dr Ted and Dr. Scott, who I know you had on the podcast before, is called Hola biomes. And the whole of Vajente is really just acknowledging that humans are actually a collection of organisms and we can measure those organisms through things like metabolomics and the health of those organisms and allow that to be a balancing mechanism. And so let's just run some examples here, right? And if you look at our current cell, our current cell is constructed of a symbiotic relationship between mitochondria and a, an ancient cell, right? And so that symbiotic relationship came together. And so we are actually fundamentally a collection of organisms. Now add on top of that, you have things like microbes, you have gut bacteria, you have viruses, you have all of these things, and you have this external environmental influence.

Speaker 4: (31:02)
And there's this book in 1992 and I'll get you a link in 1981 or Nigeria to that came out that turned this, the whole of biome. And so you as a human are actually a whole lot beyond. And so we can assess this whole of ion to actually measure. And again, I am very much into data measure the health of you and sir use it as like a term of benchmarking, right? So you come in every, I like my clients to see me, you know, once every three to six months for testing. And then eventually we want to get them to once a year, but usually starts at once every three to six months. And then when they come in, we benchmark how your whole Obiang is doing, you know, how are, how's your gut bacteria? Do we have good bacteria balances there? Do you have any sign of parasites there? Are there any sort of factors that we need to look at on the nutrient side? And once we benchmarked it, we then start to optimize, right? And so it's what I find, I consider it to be the most elegant equation to human optimization author.

Speaker 3: (32:09)
Wow. So this is the nix label from just what you've been doing along with the genetic testing and coming out with data that, that producers and actually looking at. So how is the hollow buoyant and the metabolome actually tasted? Is it through blood? Is it through a combination of, you know, saliva, blood, urine, you know, how was it actually the data collected?

Speaker 4: (32:35)
Well, that's a very good question. And so fundamentally with any clients, I run three tests now. Those three tests are a blood draw, a urine sample, and a stool test. And those three are allow us to assess metabolites as well as bacteria in balances. And so we're able to gather the picture in a very simple manner.

Speaker 3: (32:58)
Wow. And then [inaudible] and this is now international, the home hardcore Donald. So you don't need specialist labs to chase that. Can you use your name?

Speaker 4: (33:09)
Yeah. You can't get in exactly. Walk down to your local doctor and say like, Hey doc, I want to test. You know, I want my I w yeah, first off, you know, you may get some pretty weird looks if you mentioned the word hold by aunt, but it's pretty hard to go down and say like, Hey, I want to go test eight. Oh, HDG. Right. Which is oxidative stress or DNA damage. Even that's pretty difficult to test at most local labs. What we, what we do is we use a specialist's lab around their global little bit less of a presence. They have a presence in Australia called Genova diagnostics. They're based in Asheville, North Carolina, which is where my parents live. So I get to go make the pilgrimage every so often down to their labs. But yeah, Genova diagnostics provides those tests. You can get a metabolome analysis from other labs. And of course we're looking at those labs. But this one we use current.

Speaker 3: (34:08)
Wow, that's amazing. Okay. So they knew you'd get these tests done and then you can, you can analyze them for these things and give them specific recommendations, both lifestyle nutrients in other interventions, I imagine. Absolutely. And this is, so this is all, you know, like we both agree that, you know, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach is not where we want to be. In for our own health and for the health of our loved ones and the people that we work with. We want to be the, at the top of the class before the stuff happens. And this is the key difference in the approaches. And then a second difference is that our allopathic models are very pharmacological based. And you know, don't you believe that that money doesn't talk, you know, the money that pharma companies have at talks and, and that is influencing the decisions fate that your doctors are making.

Speaker 3: (35:09)
And it's also the way it's set up. And so this has been a very one sided, you know, and, and farmer pharmical logical intervention certainly has the place, but they have a way to bigger space in the world, I think at the moment and comparison. And I think , you know, like looking at hyperbaric and Dr. Scott shows, who's now involved with you guys is a, is a classic example of a therapy that works that doesn't have a pharmaceutical backing or no way to make tests because there's no way to make money out of it. They can't patient account, patient oxygen cause it's already there. You know, you've got situations, same with hormones, you know, by bioidentical hormones. You know, they haven't been able to paint it them. So they made some physical Mons for women and hormone replacement therapy and, and you know, that caused a whole lot of headache. So there's this, this is systematic problems in a boom boom, top of a, of a generations within the system. And a lot of it is, is very much a stick a bandaid on the, on the wound and not look at, well, where did the wound come from and why is it there and what's causing it, you know. And that's what we have more about and learning.

Speaker 4: (36:23)
Yeah. And, and I think, you know, even taking it one step further, because you know, looking at the wound and seeing where it comes from, that's a lot of what functional medicine is doing and they're doing well. What a health optimization does and health optimization, really medicine and practice is what we're doing is as you know, functional medicine, we'll look at that quote unquote root cause and what health optimization medicine practices doing it is seeking to just balance and perform that maintenance so that, you know, going down the line rather than having to basically take all of the life's maintenance and put it, you know, I, I come from finance, so like let's feature value all of life's maintenance into this one big event down the line, which in my case probably would have been a heart attack. Why don't we do little bits of maintenance over time so that health span happens.

Speaker 4: (37:25)
Right? And so I think going back to the finance analogy, it's like an annuity every year or every six months or even three months. You come in, you get your Tufts, you benchmark, you figure out where you are, and then you seek to optimize and balance or balancing networks here. And what we find is, is that people tend to perform very, very well, and you can start to measure these things, right? There's a, there's really cool clocks out there. I'm a big fan of the Horvath clock. I just enjoy it. And I know that these clocks are evolving every single minute. You know, people like chronometer my DNA age, a few others that are looking at methylation marks on the Nissan and the on DNA and determining biological age. There's also something out there called the grim age, which I'm super excited about because that one is,

Speaker 3: (38:13)
Oh, that's a new one on me. What's interesting, right? And this is

Speaker 4: (38:17)
Not for everybody, I'll admit this, but for people that are somewhat sadistic like me, this is apparently an a way to extrapolate a distance between now and first potentially more tality event, right? And so it's like now in between now and the time you die, but you can do stuff about it, right? And so I'm the type of person that if I have an issue, I want to be confronted with it. And so that, you know, I wasn't the kid who basically when I found out I had heart disease, I broke out a spreadsheet and figured out, okay, what's the average is a person dies and I put that day's number in my spreadsheet and that motivates me to, that motivates me to do stuff every day. Now that's not for everybody, right? And I recognize that I'm a little weird in that sense, but these are types of things that are out there that allow us to get not only not only just more, more data points, but also allows us to benchmark the success of our modifications, right? Because all we're doing is nutrients and lifestyle modifications, but nutrient, lifestyle modifications can be very, very powerful.

Speaker 3: (39:35)
Underestimated it, you know, like the basics and sometimes underestimated. We get into all this fancy stuff, but sometimes it comes down to are you drinking, are you sleeping? Are you getting sunlight? Right? Like, are you connected to nature? Are they saying those clocks? Or I'll have to get the links to that because I'm very sort of beach marking, biological age or, and, and you know, they, my age one, it sounds very interesting because that's something that's missing in our regime right now is being able to, is actually getting that macro for people and benchmarking and all these things cost. So it's always a cost way up. But it gives you something to aim for when you've got a line drawn in the scenes. I think

Speaker 4: (40:17)
I think absolutely. And I think a grim age is not yet commercially available. So the biological age is there are two companies that I know of that are producing them at various price points. The other thing that is really interesting and it's something that, yeah, the other one that I like for benchmarking is the promise 10 global. There's promise tents for everything, but it's just a simple survey and the statistics behind it are quite promising. So that's something, it's cost-free, but it's a great way to benchmark clients and their success rates.

Speaker 3: (40:55)
Okay. Okay. I'll, I'll be definitely get paid to get those links off here because a, a beach mapping system is what's missing and now, yeah, right.

Speaker 4: (41:03)
And what we, what we do, and it, sorry, I know I cut you off, is I gather a lot of data, right? It's like hell, I've said the word data. How many times?

Speaker 3: (41:12)
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 4: (41:15)
So anybody that works with me has to be on board with that. And so whether that's from your wearable, whether that's from whatever survey that we send you anywhere from every day to every week you're, we're gathering data on you to make sure that everything that we're doing is working. Cause after all, like humans are complex adaptive systems to say we're not, is just categorically wrong. Right? And so when we look at a human as a complex adaptive system, we need to build in feedback loops. And so how do I get a person to, to sleep more than four hours a night? Well, I can't tell them to get eight hours a night just because the book says, right. What is actually physically happening there is, okay, let me show you your aura score every day. And you know, or whatever. It doesn't have to be aura. Let me show you that score every day. And that when that score goes up, how you feel and if you feel better than you subjectively just want to get more sleep. And so what we're doing is using the technology and leveraging the powers of technology and data to help assist in those behavior modifications.

Speaker 3: (42:20)
Brilliant. Because people need to have and some people to move that data-driven than others. Some you recommendations. And that's, you know, working with your epigenetic type if you'd like, as to how much science you need behind the information. I like you. I like to know the why and the Watson dig 10 layers deep down, stand up. Other people, maybe not so much, but having these beach max does give you a line in the, and it's like having, it's like if I say to you by my, you know, we're going to try a new up for a hundred K, you've suddenly got a line in the same and you've got a timeline and you've got a goal that you're going towards and therefore your teen Tom's likely more likely to get the us than if we don't benchmark that. And if we don't have that goal in place to help them in knowing where you started from and where you finished and then you can actually see, I came all that way and that's a really powerful thing I'd been on.

Speaker 3: (43:13)
I'm really aware of, of the time you've, you've been super, super generous with your time today. And I am super excited to find out more. I think that dr Ted stuff is definitely on my horizon once I've gotten through some other qualifications that I'm doing at the moment. They might be the next one. Yeah, that would be, it'd be super awesome. And I'd love to stay super connected to you and what you're doing because I love, I love just being around people that have the, the, the knowledge that you have, the breadth of experience that you have and the dips that you go. You fascinating. Your, your show is amazing. So everybody must go and subscribe not only to this podcast, obviously pushing the limits but to, to decoding superhuman, decoding, superhuman. And in there any last words that you'd like to share, boomer to people out there what's your most important mission in life and what is, you know, a thing that's really important for you to get across and people like that you would,

Speaker 4: (44:17)
Yeah, sure. So let, let's start with that mission. So I mentioned it a couple of times, but it is elevating the human experience through health. And I look at the world and look, I don't need to go back and go into any sort of politics or anything like that. If I look at the world and just kind of the problems that we face or the

Speaker 5: (44:49)
Okay,

Speaker 4: (44:49)
You know, where we need to go in order to, I get in a lot of discussions about the future of work, right? Just because that's what I get hired as a keynote speaker to do a lot. Let's talk about the future of work. And so when I look at the world and sort of elevating the human experience through health, there's a lot we can still do as humans before we all of a sudden get taken over by Skynet and go into this matrix type scenario. Right? And so I think people, you know, in terms of the mission, elevating the human experience through health in terms of the point I want to get across to people, start measuring if you are, no matter where you are, you don't have to be super human. You don't have to be, you can be like on the other end of the continuum, right?

Speaker 4: (45:39)
And just start measuring where you are. Start associating behaviors with a certain type of measure and get out a spreadsheet, get out a piece of paper, whatever it is. Assuming you're listening to this podcast, I assume you have some sort of modicum of technology you know, getting out a spreadsheet and start tracking this stuff and just started associating what you're doing with a feeling. And that's just a great way to start tracking. You can eventually get into all this really cool high level tracking that I've been talking about today, but really start measuring. That's something that will help you achieve your goals faster. And will really just make the whole journey a lot more, lot more fun.

Speaker 3: (46:22)
Yeah, a lot more fun and move a lot more little goals to aim for when you know what you're dealing with. And this is something, you know, that doesn't have any come naturally to me, but I'm definitely moving more and more in that way. We met, you've been super, super generous with your time. I really appreciate the work that you're doing in the world. I'm excited to see where it takes you and however we meet working with you more. So people can go to decoding superhuman.com which be your website and you can around, they can reach out to them.

Speaker 4: (46:53)
Sure. so www.decodingsuperhuman.com is the website. That's where you can find all the podcast episodes again, iTunes, Spotify, SoundCloud, every podcast destination there is. We released six episodes a month. And I will also, you know, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. I've basically gone through my new year's rerock of how I want to address social media. So you'll see me more in posting there as well. So I look in and please say hi like I am, I respond to every message is everybody knows so please say hi and let me know what you think of the opposite.

Speaker 3: (47:32)
Definitely reach out, check out the podcast, absolutely

Speaker 2: (47:36)
As a, as a master's, a minimum and ask the questions cause that's where conversations start and where you learn. So thank you very much, much. I really appreciate your time today.

Speaker 3: (47:46)
Awesome. Thank you so much. And one more plug. I guess if you want to check out the stuff that we talked about,

Speaker 4: (47:51)
About on the home hope side of things, just go to home hope.org yup.

Speaker 3: (47:56)
Yeah. Home hope.org. It's the website or

Speaker 4: (48:00)
We're working on launching the education foundation. It's part of, it's already launched. But it's something that you guys can check out and let let us know what you think. Can you can just drop me a message on social media?

Speaker 2: (48:10)
Yeah, it's definitely on my horizon. I want to, I want to get there. So thanks for doing that and thanks for spreading that word cause it's a completely new lens to look through. Thank you very much glioma and we'll talk again.

Speaker 3: (48:21)
No doubt. Absolutely. Thank you. Lisa.

Speaker 2: (48:24)
If your brain is not functioning at its best in, check out what the www.vielight.com do now. Be like producers, photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells. In other words, the mitochondria and research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light. Revitalizes mitochondria. And I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and also for other age related to client issues and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurism and stroke. So kick out what the team www.vielight.com that's V I E L I G H T.com and use the code T A M A T I at checkout to get 10% of any of the devices.

Speaker 1: (49:15)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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8 years ago a 22 year old Chloe Hogan was on her way to work at 5.30am one morning. She was gearing up for her second marathon a few weeks out and heading to the gym where she was a PT but disaster struck. An accident, a major one and Chloe was left with a massive brain injury. She lay in a coma for weeks, the Doctors after 19 days telling the family to turn off life support, that there was no hope. 4 days later she awoke and proved them all wrong. But the damage was massive and there wasn't much left of their beautiful daughter. But Brian is a fighter and a feisty Dad who wasn't willing to give up on his beautiful girl so he started researching and working. He ignored all the negative naysayers and powered through years of hard grind, always believing, always looking for the next level and slowly inch by hard won inch they bought Chloe back. After 4 years they discovered Hyperbaric oxygen therapy, Chloe was still completely wheelchair bound, could only speak very slowly, and was incontinent. After 20 treatments the incontinence was gone, Brian did more sessions with her, another 165 to be exact and slowly combined with thousands of hours of physio, a change in diet and a never say die attitude Chloe got better and better. Now 8 years into their journey Chloe surprised her parents for Xmas with the greatest gift on earth, she took her first steps completely unaided. Chloes story is outlined in my new book "Relentless" due out on the 11th of March. This book is about bringing my Mother Isobel back after a major aneurysm and stroke left her like a baby and she, like Chloe has clawed her way back. Against all odds and against all the medical professionals prognoses. You can pre order "Relentless" right now at https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless and if you grab it right now (before the 1st of February 2020) you will get free access to my MINDSETu online mental toughness ecourse. Valued at $275. So hurry over and pre order your copy right now. To Watch Chloes feature story on TVNZ's 7 Sharp program go here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162529755070114&id=552205113&sfnsn=mo and reach out to Chloe on Facebook at Chloe M S Hogan. We would like to thank the sponsors for this show www.vielight.com Makers of Photobiomodulation devices that stimulate the brains mitocondria, the power houses of your brains energy, through infrared light to optimise your brain function. To get 10% off your order use the code: TAMATI at www.vielight.com We would like to thank our sponsors: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runningpage/ Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body. Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics/ Get The User Manual For Your Specific Genes
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These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Lisa Tamati Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others.
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Helping you to reach your full potential and break free of those limiting beliefs. For Lisa's free weekly Podcast "Pushing the Limits" subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast app or visit the website https://www.lisatamati.com/page/podcast/ Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
If your brain is not function at its best, then check out the team at vielight.com. Vielight producers photo biomodulation devices. Your brain function depends largely on the health of the energy sources of the brain cells, the mitochondria. Now research has shown that stimulating your brain with near infrared light revitalizes mitochondria. I use these devices daily for both my own optimal brain function and to slow age-related decline and also for my mom's brain rehabilitation after her aneurysm in stroke. So check out what the team at Vielight like, do it and use the code Tamati. That's T A M A T I at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of the devices.

Speaker 3: (00:59)
Hi everybody, Lisa Thomas to hear it pushing the limits. And today I have a very special couple of guests with me, Brian Hogan and Chloe Hogan all way from Oakland. Hi guys. How you doing? Good. Thanks. Good morning Lisa. We've had a little bit of technical troubles trying to get you on here, but we've worked it out. So now I have, this is a very special story guys that I wanted to share with you, the audience because Conway's had an incredible difficult journey and who did in a family. And I wanted to shoot a little bit of the story because it sort of parallels a little bit. And so I'm going to start with you. Brian, we what actually happened to Chloe? Can you take us back eight years ago.

Speaker 4: (01:49)
Okay. Well in the morning of the 22nd her birthday, like she left to go to work at around five 30 in the morning and when about full bath rate case down the road, she for some unknown reason the stage well, what we want you to get or not chase way up to miss something on the road. There was a funny morning.

Speaker 3: (02:10)
Yup.

Speaker 4: (02:11)
Yeah, she lost control of the car and slammed passenger side on a heavy concrete pap on. She sustained a traumatic brain injury. Fortunately, there was a, a chromo theater nurse. Well, living within steady. Yeah. 30 meters of the crash. Yeah. It has been, came out sort of situation called the called his wife came out and she stabilized Slatery way stabilized, got a breathing soon after that. Somebody had run a very one of my mum and the ACE arrived and then the ambulance arrived and she was taken to Middlemore hospital. Yeah, no, we were there and it's seven o'clock in the morning, we're gonna knock on our door and our street placements, standing here and of course you get to wonder what this is all about. You think the worst and it was the worst or most and they say cloud and being involved in an accident and that she was very serious.

Speaker 4: (03:08)
Accident was Neha terminology. A great 9. And right team is a fatality, so like currently offers to drive us through the middle more, which they did at great speed. And we arrived to fund how he had been stabilized in the hospital and that she was totally unconscious. Of course it was hooked up to all sorts of houses and gadgets. And then they then we were told that they didn't have the, the equipment to continue the treatment there she needed through the engine and eventually medical intervention. So put it in an ambulance. And again, we following her, rushed through to walk hospital where she went into intensive care and wow. Yeah. So it was quite a day I had a morning.

Speaker 3: (03:56)
Yes. Yeah. So it was, and so Chloe was only 22 years old. Major brain injury. So she's hanging on for dear life. She's in the hospital. Of course. Clara, you won't remember any of this. Nothing. Thank goodness. That's a really good thing. So Brian, I know that then it was touch and go for a fairly long time. Chloe was in a coma and the ICU unit what was that time in your life like?

Speaker 4: (04:27)
Well, I guess that first two or three days you are just a sideline, I observed that really, you couldn't do anything. We were totally numb, totally numb, or it was like an out of body experience. You know, the way we can tell the truth is going to poke through and tell that she was going to die really new. So it was a time of great concern and she was blissfully sleeping. Thank goodness. Yes, I was sick. Mmm. But anyway, I think on the third day Dr. Stevens straight cold us coordinating with the family and set the stage, there was a a high likelihood that she wouldn't die. It's a big paper, a long journey and go with it right at the store.

Speaker 3: (05:18)
So I know that she was in coma for I think 23 days, but a day like 19 or something, they said to you, you might have to turn off the life support.

Speaker 4: (05:27)
That's correct. That's correct. She was transferred to high to begin and see after, okay. A week out of 'em [inaudible] and after, I think it was the 19th day or the 20th day, real cold to a meeting with them seeking you register on a high dependency ward, Hey saved to S there is no chance Chi [inaudible] out of her coma. Injuries are too severe and you probably the family to consider the alternatives, which was withdrawal of life support. And I pushed a document or pamphlet across the [inaudible] devastated.

Speaker 3: (06:08)
You were devastated and you actually refused and you're Brian, we've thought about it. Of course you're has five runs. So yeah, you, you basically you, you know, it came to be that you lifted the life support on and thank God you did. Is that what happened?

Speaker 4: (06:35)
Well, in it to the little no document on the wall that says they can't, that's where they are intervention. You know, I'm on the ward. You lost it all as your rights. Yes. Brilliant. And so that was it. And everyone went away pretty safe. But anyway, just normal for Kali on the .

Speaker 3: (06:58)
22 days she woke up, she woke up just four days later and I were expecting her to, you know, not, not wake up even at all. This is pretty frightening though, Brian. If you think about it, like how many times has life support been tuned off when it didn't need to be tuned off? Yeah, yeah. Certainly not three weeks on and to the drama. I remember with my mom, I was, you know, given non resuscitation orders to sign and I wasn't as polite as you just saying. No, I use some stronger language. It wasn't that way. Always still going there. And you know, so after Callie woke up, of course she had massive brain damage. And Chloe, what is the very first memories that you have? How many months passed or you know, your dad will be able to help you here, but how many months before you can actually remember anything? The first thing I remember was the patient. Okay. So you have actual little bits of memory of actually in the, in the hospital, so okay. No, and their rehab. The rehab. Okay. So after hospital.

Speaker 4: (08:25)
Yeah. Especially as an open book or hospital for two months to Kevin IBI, which was out in route around Nelly and yeah, so that was probably four months after accident before she has that numeric.

Speaker 3: (08:41)
Wow. And that was the very first one. Now the cloud we have any any movement, any, any speech, any memory of you at all when she, you know, after a couple of months or was she pretty much you know, non functioning

Speaker 4: (08:59)
Well at open hospital once well she had an issue with biting her tone. Yeah. We all them. So they had to end up vein was gadgets to stop it tongue movement, which was very divisive and terrible. So she had shaved an amount, the must gadgets stuck in the mouth and she had a trunk. Yeah. And she has had a pig on to tell me to be fade. Sorry. She goes, Oh, what up. So even though she had woken up, she had no real response. We couldn't, she couldn't talk. She could say us. And she made, she'd made eye contact. Yeah. The the left side of her body wasn't functioning, so she couldn't see out the left side. And so that will took probably six months to come back slowly.

Speaker 3: (09:57)
Then we came back. Okay,

Speaker 4: (10:00)
Well forget, say what, say you on a high rot side, but hang on. Oh God, that ran the wrong way. My left and right. She could say, say on her right side and left side wasn't functioning. So she couldn't say, Hey, we'll stop. Stop. But then anyway, they, it's but now we're getting after the two months when it was obviously she was stabilized and she was reactive. And little by little like pulled some of these troops and things out. But you're so stuck with us math thing. But once the truck and that came out and I was there on the, not a senior nurse sick, well I think she can cope what ourselves and we're going to remove. So she moved there and they pulled them out, I think to me, his daddy.

Speaker 3: (10:59)
Oh, then it might give so she remember Jude, she had obviously some functions and some memory still there. No really good sign because I'm early on in the pace, you know, it's pretty hard not, you know, you don't know. I know with mum I didn't know whether she knew who I was and what I was or anything. And Tony, you've got a very, very special mum and dad, haven't you? Yep. So you've been now in this journey for eight years and from that time that you woke up from the injury and then that whole time you've been working really, really hard and your heart and your appearance and your family been working really, really hard to bring you back. How hard is this journey been for you and what, what does it mean? Like terrible. Yeah. So hard. Tell me some of the worst things that you've been through. Like at the very beginning you obviously couldn't control anything in your body at all.

Speaker 4: (12:04)
No. I don't think so. Well she had 'em up a little reasonable. Not reasonable, but okay. Up. I've I've actually, but she had, you know, we had to help feed her every meal, months, probably six months. Like to go back to one thing and it might, your audience might be interested that and for others going through this, you know, I did as much research as possible. Everything. Dr Google is probably really wonderful. Yeah. And one of the other things on that that I found out was stimulation was important no matter what. So while she goes and well while she was in and and not and high dependency, she I used to sing to her.

Speaker 3: (13:08)
Okay.

Speaker 4: (13:09)
And I also used the read to this, I agree to a book laugh out loud so she could hear it, but every time I did that end, even my staying here hat right wig down. So she was selling it for around 90 to a hundred beats per minute hot. Right. Well it had dropped her 70 almost every time. So she was getting it. She was, she was [inaudible] and stimulating and that suddenly, you know, for folks that are in the same situation, they might like to try that. There was a young guy at IBO who was a boxer and he sustained a traumatic brain injury in the prefab and his training and he was almost totally climatized. So his mother was, they regulate but wouldn't, she wasn't nice gun sit with him. And I talked to him about boxing and gosh, you just, yeah. You could say he'd smile and he'd give me . Mmm. Your responsible. Sorry. Can I just, as I said, never give up and try it. I was like this possible, but know simulation on happiness. Is it great? Mmm.

Speaker 3: (14:23)
And I think it's really important that people treat them as if they are the or O'Brian. Don't talk to them as a fan, not reasons or over them. That's what I found very, very frustrating. In the early days, did you find that like they would talk with a car? We didn't exist.

Speaker 4: (14:41)
Yeah. Do you let the medical staff talk to, talk over her as like when you're in hospital? But I might've pissed no, and I made them talk to her and address that. Ava, she was our sponsor. We just, we just stuck with it. We're not gonna give out.

Speaker 3: (15:04)
Yeah. And, and giving people that respect, even though they can't respond, is very, very important for anybody who has disabilities or anybody who can't communicate or has had a stroke or brain injury, you know, always give them the full respect that you'd give anybody else and talk to them about this situation. You know, I find that really, really offensive when people don't do that, even though they can't respond. Yeah, you, you went to dr Google. That's exactly what I did. I went like hardcore researching every thing in the universe on brain injury. And I know like for the listeners, Brian and I connected a few years down the track with Curry and actually I was probably half a year in or a year and with mom's rehab when we connected, I think, and you rang me one day about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and see what I, what I thought about that. I think you'd, yeah. Tell us a little bit about that journey cause that happened already. That was already four years in or so to two colleagues rehab, is that right?

Speaker 4: (16:07)
Yeah, it was it. Well, almost daily diary, as I said to medical staff, you know, how bout hyperbaric oxygen treatment. And so every single person, every single metal comparison I spoke to gave him no joy at all. Don't know anything about that. That's not proven. It's a hurry. But I, you know, I played, I played in the open rugby up hydrocod color dry for seniors and we played Navy and I took the bait fuck shelf it before it was no blood.

Speaker 3: (16:40)
Was almost an old black. I'm sure he was glowing

Speaker 4: (16:47)
That vaccines may or the boys go and you know, we're talking after the guy and mother boys go into the, into the decompression chamber, which I had on the night device, but the next day after the game, and I said, you could watch bruises disappear now that was when I was about 19 or 20. So it was a hell of a year long, long time ago. But that sort of stuck with me. So one of the early things I thought about or have have hyperbaric Novia with it and I, I sort of gave up on it because we got so much negativity from it.

Speaker 4: (17:24)
But anyway we, she hadn't had an operation, a middle matter hospital to correct her foot. So while we're sitting on the there for bed awakened and I was reading books like really got stuck into this hyperbaric and I found this chamber that's private chamber in, the seven mountain Nelson. And so that was approximately four years. Oh, on this journey. Did we rent them out to her? And Jose, actually, if there's someone who's down the call, I was going through hopper. Greg did, I rang you or she had 2020 treatments of MACRA the first time. And within a week of coming away she'd be, she'd be, she got control of about, so she was before years there was incontinent, a nappy for four years. And and so that, that was just a huge step. Now there was nothing else different than we did the fixed date.

Speaker 3: (18:27)
So this is 4 years. I want people to listen. Keep it. This is four years into the rehabilitation cause a lot of people have said to me, it's too late. I had a stroke five years ago or 10 years ago. It's now used to be doing that for years after the event. 20 sessions. And you've already got a major, major breakthrough. This might not sound major, but as it is, as both of us and all of us have gone through, being in consonants is major and it's not fun. It's not fun as it Chloe and after 20 treatments to get control, that means that part of the brain is coming back online. That's what that is. And then you, you had to go all the way to map or, so there's a, there's a a medical hyperbaric facility down in map or a Nelson, which I think is unfortunately closing if it hasn't already close his it, Brian.

Speaker 4: (19:20)
Ah, yeah, it's on the, in the process of closing down, but the much, Oh, absolute tragedy, you know, saying there's so much pressure from people who know about it. So it starts trickling along, but it'll eventually closed. I imagine by the end of this year,

Speaker 3: (19:40)
If we had, if we had lots of money, we'd go and buy it and get it up and running again. And no. So dr Tim are, is the, is the, is the doctor down there? He was in charge of the costume, a hyperbaric facility before he went in private. Now hyperbaric is a hugely beneficial, and then if you're listening to this guys, he was a, one of the world's leading experts on this podcast over two years ago now, Dr. Scott Scheer, who she has insights and go back and look up and I'll put it in the show notes, the link to that episode because this is really powerful. You did that 20 sessions and then you went back again and this, each time you're taking Kali right down to Nelson, you're staying, living down DHEA, which is a hell of a sacrifice day, isn't it?

Speaker 4: (20:24)
Oh yeah, I see it. You want to have a holiday? I got him out. Poets.

Speaker 3: (20:29)
It's a lovely place. But in karma you had to go in this chamber every day pretty much every day. Apart from weekends, weekends I got to go shopping. She's an expensive daughter, isn't she? So how many sessions did you end up having a map or Brian?

Speaker 4: (20:52)
195, I think.

Speaker 3: (20:54)
95 of the medical grade hyperbaric treatments in as she progressed. What were the things that you saw come back online? Cause when I met she was fully in a wheelchair, unable to stand or anything like that. What happened over there? 185 sessions. There's a lot of sessions, but that's, it's nothing when you compared to a lifetime.

Speaker 4: (21:18)
Oh yeah. Like it was well it just changed everything. She, she gained weight gain control of her alum. So her feet, you know, the walking out of it, she doesn't and I, I'm a high Walker.

Speaker 3: (21:39)
Yep. Yep, yep.

Speaker 4: (21:40)
And she has to have somebody in front of it pulling in somebody behind my conception 40th and the tray. That's as good as she had got. After half the Brack, she was able to walk to the gutter frame and assisted, you know, over a period of talking to them while we were down there. So her fake placement there was a first thing I noticed was probably after 40 stations she could manage her feet and place them in the right place instead of getting them 10 without. So then she was stable on like other friends. So it didn't make a person in front of the person to be healthy. And from that she's going on, she entering the Walker and now she's four, she's walking through and we'll link to basketball court.

Speaker 3: (22:27)
Wow. Probably tell you you were on television recently. We'd show because it was a Christmas miracle that you gave to your dad. What did, what did you do? May and Jane organized, did they own seven shop? Oh, I wanted to be on TV. Hey, curious, why not? And you showed them and this buddy you showed your dad and your mom, you for the first time taking some steps, is that right? Yeah. And I caught it on camera. I'll put the link to that guy, that video. Guys, these are copies for your steps. Now this is after 195 hyperbaric sessions, thousands of hours of physio therapy. Goodness knows what else you've done as well, Brian, for everything you've done, everything under the sun, pretty much. If someone sees this weird musical therapy, have you stuck? I've got lasers that I stick up mom's nose. I've done everything possible.

Speaker 3: (23:33)
Yeah, I've still got that. I actually think it's great. You know, in other words, we didn't just, both of us approach this with try everything. If it's risky, try it. And if it's risky, we'll weigh up the risks and we'll have a go at it and research like how, and take responsibility. Don't wait for the medical professionals to give you the go ahead. Don't wait for the green light for hyperbaric therapy. You know, this isn't an advert for five very clear free, but it is a very powerful therapy if you have enough sessions. And it's just an absolute travesty that Maffra is perhaps closing because the regulations around the just terrific. That made it very, very difficult from what I hear for dr terms to function and you leave are these stories. My mum has had 250, half of Barrick sessions. I ended up buying a, what they called a mild hyperbaric chamber, which is not as good as the one in Maffra, but it was the best that we could do. I had the first 53 sessions with you in a, in a proper, if you want to call it then a proper chamber. But it was through a dive company and it was, you know, taken off and we couldn't use it anymore. And I created that would giving me enough brain back of mom's brain that I could then teach you to walk and to do the things. And the same would have been with you I Brian with the, with the, with the policies coming back.

Speaker 4: (25:05)
Oh yeah, absolutely. And I like fake placements, quite important now with ums and she's got control of them. And I put that down to hyperbaric because nothing else is, well, she's had lots and lots and lots, lots and stuff. But I suppose that's been one of the pickiest parts of the puzzle and putting it back together.

Speaker 3: (25:32)
It's the key of it because it ha so what hyper hyperbaric does people is it hyper oxygenates your your body. So you're getting about seven times the amount of oxygen into the body and it's compressing the oxygen molecules so that it can actually pass through the blood brain barrier to the parts of the brain that are damaged but not deed. So the deed pats were unable to bring back. But typically around the deep parts of tissue there is what they call way ischemic penumbra and these are cells that are alive but they're not functioning. And these are the ones that we can hopefully target with hyperbaric and bring back. It also hits the inflammation pathways in the brain and in the body. And it also helps produce more STEM cells and all of these things help the body to repair it. So it's not a quick fix.

Speaker 3: (26:18)
It's something that you need to have a lot of sessions in. But as you can see with probably after four years of not getting very far at all and then having these 185 sessions over the period of, I don't know, a year and a half, two years, she's now walking that is massive. She now has control over her bowels and 40 in control over a hell of a lot more. Whose features also improved greatly, hasn't it? Karma. You're talking pretty now? Cause when I, when I meet slow, yeah. I think when I met you it was quite slow. It was. It was, and that's a huge difference. So it's a hugely powerful and you've got your whole life ahead. You're a super young lady and I know that you've got your 30th birthday coming up. Is that right? You're invited. Oh, I'm invited. It's fantastic.

Speaker 3: (27:09)
I'll try and get to that point. And so Chloe's dad and I have had sort of exchanged notes along the road, however we, Brian and given each other tips, some trucks of what we've learned along the way. And this has been really a multipronged approach. It's not just the one thing, a huge part of it has been hyperbaric, but it's also thousands of hours and the therapists and training and retraining the mind. It's having the guts and the determination like if Brian wasn't such a feisty, don't take any shirts person who is going to push through every barrier and if I wasn't the same then I don't think mum or Chloe would we be with AR. And by the same token, Chloe and mum are also identical and that they are fighters. They are people that persist that resilient. The positivity that Callie brings to this really difficult journey is nothing short of mind blowing. I've been absolutely astounded to watch you over the last few years on how you've just fought your, your differently. A chip off the old block, aren't you daughter?

Speaker 3: (28:23)
I have lots of grit. Exactly. So call me. You are just a couple of weeks away from running your first marathon when the accident happened. Day one. So I forgot. I forgot. You'd already need the one. Sorry. I was going to do it and then you want to smash that toe. I'll tell you what though, that dream is still alive in you, isn't it? To athlete again, get out there and race and be in a, in a, in a racing, you've actually done a fiveK , is that right? Yeah. Fun run. And you did it on your, your frame at that time. Zimmer frame funding. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (29:14)
She doesn't, well, yeah, I guess because it, but yeah, she doesn't walk. Oh by Southwest. We have lots of people around helping her. Oh, and encourage her, right. Very steep that she needed.

Speaker 3: (29:30)
Yeah. That's insane. That is so amazing. Chloe, you've got mum, I'm up to two Ks with mum. The five K's yet. And story in Brian's story is in my new book, which is coming out in match called relentless. And it's, it's another example of an incredible comeback story. And that's why I was really keen to share this. And Brian is hopefully gonna write the book one day and Brian and chloe, you're gonna get the bums into here and share this insight as well. Even though writing a book is a mission. I hope so because this is an incredible story, Callie and it's not finished yet and she's still got a week wise to go on on. Definitely to get full independence. Ron, do you think Chloe will ever reach full, full independence again and be able to no flat on her own or, or live in a house with, with flatmates and they talked to them.

Speaker 4: (30:28)
Oh, without a doubt. But they have a death.

Speaker 3: (30:30)
Really? That's amazing. So at the moment you with mum and dad? Yeah. Yeah. And yet are you sick and mum and dad, do you want your own independence? He goes away sometimes. So it's okay. It's just you and ma and then you girls go shopping, but more on spend. Spend some more money there. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't really like shopping. They keep a grip on it. They'll say, Oh, hype site. So I call it. What are the next steps in your journey? What are you working on at the moment? Because you're always working on something. Hey. Yeah. To be able to walk without the Walker. Oh, like a long period of time. Yep. Yep. And what are the things that she's struggling with Brian in that respects as a balance or spatial awareness or con coordinating your face and things. Don't

Speaker 4: (31:28)
A balance really chase get, you know, like every day she gets better at it. You're like, we, we have been away to Tyro since Christmas or so before Christmas. And even I notice even though we're here all the time with it, even I know she can climb the stairs and stairs now with minimal assistance, whereas at Christmas it was, you know, you have to keep a class on I, but she can do it all by herself. Now just with my mind,

Speaker 3: (32:00)
Are you using functional neurology? That's something that I'd highly recommend you go out and start looking into if you haven't to Willy, which is using a, so doing things like with your eyes balancing, you know, different eye exercises that really helped me with non, with your facial awareness and who balance stuff. So if you, if you, are you doing that at all with, with PI?

Speaker 4: (32:20)
Yeah. maybe they're not that I'm aware of. Exactly. If you could save me that.

Speaker 3: (32:26)
Yeah, I'll send you a couple of videos. I'm in links to doctors who, who teach this online. I'd also recommend you go to a good car, Frank, cause it knows about functional neurology or I'm not sure if there's up in Oakland or not, but and just get things looked at it from that perspective because adjusting the bet can also help with I've got mum at the chiropractor at the moment, we're trying to straighten out. It's fine. Of course things are going a little bit skew with after four years of being, you know, leaned over on one side and that can help with neurological function as well. So it's just say people like it's really important to share these insights and information with each other cause we're still learning, we're still growing, we're moving forward. And each time you come, you take a step forward, you actually come up against a new obstacle. I've found a Braun, there's something that, some new place that you haven't thought about. A new, a new level, a new deal sort of thing.

Speaker 4: (33:19)
Yeah. You know, like the other thing that I think is important is as I'm assessing the notes that you know, the right to make a significant difference as well. I think

Speaker 3: (33:33)
The right food for our brain is really, really important. And having good high fats, good Omega threes, really important. I have a whole regime of different supplements that I also have mum on. And we also do something called epigenetic testing. And I got into this Brian, it looks because it looks at your gene genetic makeup and how they're expressing now and gives the exact right diet for that person's genes. So it'd be something that we

Speaker 4: (34:02)
Yeah, for sure. I like look at them.

Speaker 3: (34:07)
Yeah. Cause I think what, what, what the key takeaway from this guys is obviously hyperbarics really important. Second is resilience in fight in persistence and not giving up in certainly having the support of a wonderful family or friends or people that can help anyone going through a drama like this and being resilient and then also the right diet and taking a really multipronged approach. Not just relying on drugs, not relying on just physio. It's not enough. It's not enough. It's a part of the puzzle, but it's, it's not, it's not enough for brain injury, but there is a way back and there is quality of life. You know, Chloe, you're pretty happy lighting it nowadays that you, you always seem to be jetting around the place and having all travel. You love travel, you've got a wonderful family. You're moving again, you're walking in, you're going somewhere, you've got your job, sort of sit for the next couple of years. What do you get yourself back to? More independence and, but near as quality of life and nearest happiness. Fear and it sounds, yeah, it's an amazing story guys. Brian, are there any last words or closing any last words that you want to encourage people who might be going through hardships? It doesn't even need to be brain injury, but just hard times.

Speaker 4: (35:23)
Well, I, you know, I, my bag disappointment through or laser as a, a number of the professionals just don't get it. And you know, like a lot, probably more than 50% of the you know, they use psychologists if you like. Have said in front of Chloe, you'll never walk again. You've got unrealistic expectations to hit face. And some of them say, you know, you'll never have you know, never have a pattern in your life and you got any issue and you're going to get [inaudible] don't get used to it. That's, that's how it's going to be. The phone a lot. And I've got so angry and in front of people, I never quite lose it, but I felt like

Speaker 3: (36:21)
A few times and my big brother have lost it toe a few times.

Speaker 4: (36:27)
Yeah. And it's just stupid. They put themselves up as so called experts and they, yeah, I know nothing for those facts. We just kept them. You don't want to know anything about them. I've tried them in the door. That's it. We're not coming back. We keep looking and, and we've had some absolutely wonderful caregivers or professionals that are help Chi and, and an event like I, we keep changing providers cause he goes to speech therapists almost every two or three years until we find the right one. But they run out of ideas. They run out of experience and colleagues continue to improve. So therefore some of them you get to a stage where they've topped out, I don't know any more and can't take it to the next stage. Or the challenge is to find the next person who can take it to the next day. And we've been relentless at that nonsense and we look constantly for people that can help. And we just kept the negative ones there immediately. Non-Native might, I don't know. And I just really totally surprises me how how these people lie and I still operate and I just wonder how many people get discouraged by that and just accept it. We're, you know, we document,

Speaker 3: (37:52)
No, we don't. And, and, and we've, you know, like the thing is like, we're feisty fighters. We, we not people that give up and how many people go under the bus who don't have feisty daughters or fathers or people that will help them. I had times at the hospital where, like in front of my mum, I remember vividly, we had a, we were finally got into a physio program and of course she wasn't ICC like you guys. So we didn't get a lot of support. And I finally got her into a physio program after a year and we did this training with him, which was excellent. And he preceded, I could have done more in my, you know, when lunch break than they did. And at the end of the six weeks, they'd done all these tests with here and they'd talk to her like she was an idiot.

Speaker 3: (38:35)
And we were in this panel that we had to present the senior, that we were allowed to stay in the program. And we were taken into this room and I said to her, look, Isabel is below the level of the worst dementia patient we've seen. There is excellently no hope. She will never do anything again. We not going to continue in the program and this is in front of my mum. Right. And, and I just turned around to my mum and I said how does it make you feel mum? And she said, well, I was feeling quite empowered until I heard that, that I'm below the level of dementia patient now I'm absolutely depressed and I don't know what to think. And the mouths dropped open. They have never heard her speak a full sentence because that talked down to her, realized she had an intelligence via that they, they had ignored. And these are the professionals, the doctors, they send the fuzzier therapists and you know, I'm not saying that all like that from pig. God, they're not complete idiots. We told them to stop the program.

Speaker 3: (39:42)
I bet you've seen hates cause I've seen hates and in people who had told me, even, you know, good physios who would come to the end of their abilities, who told me you won't get any more rubbish. Yeah. And you can imagine when you've got a 78 year old how they're even more so, because they're like, she's 78. What do you want? You know, made it go, no, she's my mum and I'm going to fight and I wanted to live to 120, you know, then my attitude and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not happy with where we're at it, I'm very, I'm glad we're here but I want more and Callie wants more. We keep looking for the next layer of people that can help us and that's why we keep exchanging ideas and I've got a couple for Chloe to look into. So

Speaker 4: (40:36)
Yeah, I guess that that was really my point. I think just don't give up and when you get a divorce that you don't think is right, seek a second opinion or just go elsewhere and I just tell them out. They're not talking to our my niece has just qualified as a medical doctor and I said to her, she was here just over Christmas period. Said to her, what you know, what did they teach your bed? Hyperbaric oxygen treatment. And she said nothing. Nothing, absolutely nothing. Absolutely stupid as that I've been back works for almost, even though I dislocated my shoulder playing rugby years and years ago. And when they told me what I need a shoulder reconstruction thought and I was functioning okay. But I couldn't wash my hair with my left. Well wash it with my right. But so I put up with that for years and years and after that first 20 treatments,

Speaker 3: (41:35)
Yeah. Wow. What's flowing? No question. That there's no growth like crazy me. It does. We don't ask Dr. Scott share who was on this you know, earlier this, this podcast he said to me, if we can get three treatments, if anybody who's had a heart attack or stroke within a few days we can have the mortality. Right. And I see, why the hell is this not an every single ICU in the world. And you see, because there's no money to be made in it. He said that I'm a doctor, this is not from [inaudible] the company behind it, the clinical trials, they won't do anything cause you can't patient oxygen and they can't make money out of it. And unfortunately that is the general state of our health system. It's very pharmacological based and it's very surgery based. And while that brilliant surgery and the brilliant at those parts of the puzzle, they're not good when it comes to chronic health management and they're no good when it comes to a situation like this. And that's why, you know, I know this is controversial, unnoticeable piss some people off, but this is our experience and it needs to be shared because there's a hundred other people that will back up what we're saying a thousand other people. Yeah. Interesting enough. Was the next a customer in the door, was that an American lady? And we're talking about, she said, well, funnily enough, almost every new mall would you go on until you are in the States nowadays as a wellness clinic.

Speaker 3: (43:33)
There you go. Yeah, it's growing and, and, and the popping up. We'll have New Zealand. I opened the clinic here with a, what they call a mild hyperbaric facility with, so we can't afford the big ones with the big medical grade, but they are justice just about as good, not quite as good, but it just about as good, they don't have a hundred percent oxygen and these are popping up all over the country. So you guys, if you want to find out about it, this is not just for people with brain injuries. This is for people who want an anti aging. Good for you, for athletes. This is good for healing wounds. This is absolutely proven stuff. And there is clinical trials. I have a season. It is a powerful and by the same token, there's a hundred other Sierra pays or biohacking or whatever you want to call it, stuff out there that is worth looking into.

Speaker 3: (44:21)
We can't give recommendations for everything there is, but there's a hell of a lot that I've tried. And all combined together. Nope. Do the restaurant, do the risk assessment yourself. And if you think it's for you, go for it. And don't be told what you can and you can't do. And you know, just keep powering on clothing. Brian, you've been fantastic today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's really awesome. It's so important Chloe, that you get out there and you tell people this journey that you've been on, there's a reason why you've been through this. We've got to tune it into a positive, even though it's been health, you and your family. This is why the book for me is important to get it out there, to share these insights so that other people don't have to have it as hard as we did.

Speaker 3: (45:11)
And if we can help people then it's great. So if anybody wants to reach out to calling weaker, they find you guys your famous snare Chloe. Yeah, my Danny that drew runnings, my Facebook page, my journey back to running Facebook. So clubby Hogan on Facebook and I can find you the year under Chloe Hogan. That be right. Chloe is Hogan. Okay. Chloe, Ms. Hogan, what a complicated name you've got. Wow. That is very fancy. So fire was my granddad. Oh wow. That's a pretty cool name. So Chloe, Amy's Hogan, if anyone wants to reach out to Corey, I'm sure she'd love to hear from you. If anyone wants to reach out to me or to Brian, please let us know. You can email me and I can pass any messages on. If you've got any questions. Thank you very much guys for sharing your story. We've got to get it out there more. It's an absolutely amazing story and you and mum, Chloe are both rock stars, so thanks though. Thanks Lisa!

Speaker 2: (46:20)
We're pushing the limits this week. I hope that that was really interesting for you and you took some really strong takeaways from that interview with Brian and Chloe. It's been a, an amazing to watch her journey over the last few years parallel to my mums and some of the insights that we've both gained a really along the same path. So I hope you'll take heat of some of the notes that we talk. I just wanted to remind you to hop on over to our website. If you want to check out our programs. We've got three flagship programs. We've got our online run training Academy running hot. We you can learn everything you need to know about running with you are doing your first five K or 10 K or maybe you're gone for an a half marathon. Or if you're doing a hundredth hundredth miler, we would love to help you.

Speaker 2: (47:04)
We have a holistic run training system that is based around our five pillars. So these are your run training sessions, you mobility work, your strength work, your nutrition and your mindset and all those pieces of the puzzle. Really, really important. It's not just about putting one foot in front of the other and winging it and seeing how you go. Certainly not when once you start getting into the longer distances or once you start running sort of any injury issues. So please check that out. We also have mindset U, which is our mental toughness Academy. And this is all about developing a stronger mindset. You know, all the stuff you just heard about. And the interview with colleague, that sort of stuff. It's about resilience, it's about persistence. It's about overcoming that negative voice in your heads, those limiting beliefs that were programmed into you perhaps as a young person.

Speaker 2: (47:53)
All of that sort of good stuff. So cheek out mindset you're in. The third program that we have is our epigenetics testing program. Now this is just really next level. Now this is a program that's been put together by hundreds of scientists working from 15 different science disciplines to look specifically at your genes and how they are expressing right now. And so this is the next step in personalized health. Never before in the history of mankind. Have we ever had an insight into our bodies like we do now. And then information can help us really nail down our health problems, our optimizing our house, tuning the clock back on time and reaching high-performance. It give you information right from like having Google for your, for your own body basically. You know, it'll tell you exactly the right foods to eat, the right times of the day, your chronobiology all about the different times of the day, your hormones, when they're replacing what your dominant hormones are.

Speaker 2: (48:54)
It'll give you information on your mindset, how your mind works, which parts of your brain you use the most are just absolutely next level of information. So if you want to check out our epigenetics program, hop on over to my website, Lisa Thomas E. Dot com and hit the programs button and you'll see all three of our programs. I've also got our new book relentless coming out on the 11th of March, 2020 then this is a story of bringing my bump mum back from a mess of aneurysm. And you can preorder that book. Now, if you do preorder it, you'll get free access for the next three weeks only to mindset you. So you'll get your free X's to mindset you, you also get a discount on the book if you preorder it. The book does not ship until the 11th of March. But if you support me in getting this underway, I'm actually going to give you access to mindset. You now, that's a value of $275 and that program has been running for a few years and has helped countless people. So if you want to get this as a onetime only offer only to promote the book, please head on over to the shop at lisatamati.com Under the books button and you'll find relentless the preorders available there. So thanks very much for your time everyone, and we'll see you again next week.

Speaker 1: (50:12)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.

View Details

Sanjay Rawal worked in the human rights and international development sectors for 15 years in over 40 countries before focusing his love for photography and storytelling onto filmmaking.

His first feature, Food Chains (2014), premiered at the 2014 Berlinale and screened at Tribeca before securing domestic distribution from Screen Media. The film was produced by Eva Longoria and Eric Schlosser and narrated by Forest Whitaker. It went on to screen in 1,100 more theaters during its theatrical, semi-theatrical & community screening tour.

A lifelong runner, Sanjay was happy to lose the pounds he gained eating Mexican food in farmworker towns and take on a project about running. His latest film, 3100: Run and Become, opened in theaters in fall 2018 and comes to New Zealand in February 2020.

Sanjay learned under spiritual teacher Sri Chinmoy and studies in this film the power of running to connect humans to powers beyond themselves.

The film follows the incredibly long and brutal 3100-mile race held every year in New York City as well as diving into the long human history of long-distance running visiting The Mt Heiei Monks in Japan to the Navajo Indians to the Kalahari Bushmen.

A film not to be missed and an interview to open the mind to new possibilities.

We would like to thank our sponsors:

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible], brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
You're listening to pushing the limits with Lisa Tamati. Welcome back everybody. Today I have a very, very special podcast, but before we get underway, I just want to remind you, if you want to reach out to me, you can do that at lisatamati.com Find me on Instagram. I'm very active on Instagram at least to [inaudible] the same on Facebook. And I'd love you to come and check out our website and our flagship programs. We have three programs. We mainly do our work and we have the epigenetic program, we have the run online run trading system running hot, and we also have mindset you, which is all about mental toughness, resilience, and being the best version of yourself that you can be. So make sure you go and check those lisatamati.com Right now. Today we have a very special guest all the way from New York city.

Speaker 2: (01:05)
His name is Sanjay revile. Have you haven't heard of? Sanjay? He is an internationally renowned filmmaker. He was in the human rights and international development sector for 15 years and worked in over 15 so over 40 countries before he tuned his love for photography and storytelling into his new career, which is filmmaking. He's done a number of films. I'm most well known as his feature film, his first feature film called food chains. This was produced with Eva Longoria and Eric Schlosser and was an over 1100 theaters worldwide. And his latest film is what we're going to be talking about today. Now Sanjay is a lifelong runner. He's dedicated to doing just this running. And he was also a follower of the late Sri chum NOI, who many of you runners may know of. He was a Indian spiritual leader who died in 2007, but he was very much into unifying religions and to meditation and the power of a sport and athleticism to help you reach spiritual realms, which I find really, really fascinating subject.

Speaker 2: (02:25)
And the film that Sanjay has just produced is called 3,100 run and become, and it's based around the fact that human beings are meant to do this long, long distance running that we talk about that we're born to run. And it's particularly seen it on the race in New York city. 3000, 100 miles. This has been going for over 27 years, I believe around half mile block in New York city. And every year about 14 to 16 runners come to test the metal against horrifically long brutal arduous race. And the distances that they cover in that time is over 52 days. Is 3,100 miles set is over with just up, no, sorry, just over 5,000 kilometers. That's like going right across the United States, but in a half mile blocks. So you can imagine how hard this is. It's absolutely brutal. It's not something I would've ever tackled. It's too big. But he talks in chosen this foam, one of the characters, the main characters is the Norwegian runner who has done this over 15 times. And as really the world's best at the super, super, super long distances. So we get into a really deep conversation around philosophy and spirituality. The power of running to train, seeing yourself the healing abilities of running, how it can connect you with mother nature and you know, soul, a lot of our modern day woes. So without further ado, here's Sanjay.

Speaker 3: (04:01)
Well, hi everybody and welcome to pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you guys back again. We're nearly at the end of 2019 and I can't believe it. And today I have a special special guest with me who is sitting in New York city at the moment. Sanjay Rowe. Wow. Welcome to the show. Sanjay.

Speaker 4: (04:20)
Thank you so much. It's a, it's a winter here, so I'm just trying to keep it together while you guys enjoy mother nature in a different way than I am right now.

Speaker 3: (04:28)
Yes, I've been, yeah. Well you're welcome to come over here anytime. We'd love to have you ever New Zealand. You can come and visit way. That'd be fantastic. So have you ever been to New Zealand?

Speaker 4: (04:38)
I have, I haven't been there in almost 20 years, but I am coming for about 10 to 12 days at the end of February. The screen, the movie that we're going to talk about.

Speaker 3: (04:48)
Oh wow. Okay. I've got to make sure I get to that somehow. So we'll talk about that afterwards. So everybody listening who doesn't know sanjay you will soon. So he has produced a number of films over his career. But recently won a film that we are going to be talking about mostly today is a film called 3,100. Sanjay, can you tell us a little bit about this amazing though?

Speaker 4: (05:15)
Yeah, I'd be happy to. So the movie's 3,100 running become and it follows a pretty diminutive relatively unheard of. Finished man named Ashbery. Hannah Alto is a paper boy by trade. At the same time, he is an underground, multi-day distance running legend. The film follows him trying to complete the 3,100 mile race and the year 2016 this race is the world's longest certified road race. It's almost 5,000 kilometers. It's just a few case short of five K 5,000 but it takes place all around a half mile, close to a kilometer along a loop. In the heart of New York city runners have to try to complete at least a hundred K a day for 52 days in order to finish the race. Under that window. It's grueling, but at the same time, although it sounds like an absolute misery Fest, a suffer Fest, people don't come out of it physically devastated. In fact, the only way you can actually tell the line for this type of mores is to have a deep understanding of the spirituality of long distance running.

Speaker 4: (06:31)
So in the film, not only do we follow Ash Briana, El Alto, but to kind of show how and why this race is even possible, we'd go back into time. We follow three other runners on their own quests, but runners who come from very deep traditional cultures of running a, we follow an ultra marathoner on the Navajo nation. In Arizona, we go to the Kalahari desert and Botswana at hunt with Bushman hunters who chase down game across two to three day law tracks. And we follow an aspirant in the Highlands of Japan who was doing a thousand day Trek of about 31,000 miles in the mountains outside of Kyoto. This shows the spirituality that's inherent to running that really fuels the runners in the 3,100 mile race.

Speaker 3: (07:20)
Wow. Well you preaching to the converted here and a lot of my audience, of course Evan runners. And what really surprises me, I mean I have to, I have to tell you a little bit of a story. I actually tried to get a documentary series done for discovery channel called run the planet and we actually uncovered, so the Kalahari, the Navajo, the, the Mount Tia amongst the, and a number of other tribes, people with stories and legends of doing long distance running. I didn't manage to pull it off. We did the the pilot for the series a in Australia reenacting an Aboriginal men story who ran 250 kilometers to save a friend of hers across the desert. And that was the end of the project unfortunately. But you actually manage the Paul was off which a huge amazing seat too though because I know what these sort of things take.

Speaker 3: (08:17)
But we, we came from the same premise that running is an inherently, we are born to run and stuff. The famous book is from Chris Google. We have born to run and we are made for this sort of long distance stuff and that we've done that throughout history. And you have uncovered these amazing people doing these incredible things. What's interesting for me is you've come from a very spiritual background and I've actually not come from that same background as a runner come more from the sporting and the, you know and I, I think I lived a lot of untapped potential sort of on the table looking back cause I didn't tap into the more spiritual side. I think I did to a certain degree without really understanding it. But you know, let's talk a little bit about Sri chum noise and what the races that he set up all around the world actually have to do with a 3,100 mile race. And, and your, your what, what your beliefs are around, she treats your NOI and has had a trick to long distance running.

Speaker 4: (09:25)
First of all. I so wish you'd completed that series. It sounds like it would have been awesome and I probably wouldn't have had to do this movie.

Speaker 3: (09:33)
It would have been complimentary, would've been awesome. Yeah. We didn't manage to pull it off. As, you know, there are lots of hurdles to jump through when you're totally, yeah.

Speaker 4: (09:44)
So, you know, to your question, I, I ran track in high school and I, I, I grew up in the United States and you know, the state that I grew up in, California has 35 million people. So a lot of people ran track, you know, but kind of got disillusioned from everything at university and ended up after graduation moving from the West coast of the U S to New York city where an Indian spiritual teacher named Sri Chinmoy lived his path really intrigued me because no harm, no foul, like there's no superiority or inferiority. But he really advocated a a pretty unified philosophy of not just making your heart strong and, and trying to develop the kind of beautiful qualities that we have inside, like love and peace and joy. But he also felt that physical fitness was a paramount importance to achieving that sense of inner peace. And so he came at running an exercise from a totally different vantage point than I did for me.

Speaker 4: (10:45)
You know, it was all about competition. And you know, when I was in high school, I would win a lot of races, but by the time I got to college, you know, I was no longer in that kind of top echelon. And you know how it is. It's like once you realize you're never going to be like at the very, very top, you know or, or you're not going to win every single race. I know you want a lot of races, you start really losing, you know, a sense of purpose. But when I came across region wise philosophy, it was totally different. You know, and, and this is reflective in all the cultures that we explore in 3,101 and become that there's something unique about running and we just have to take it on faith that unlike any other activity, however wonderful, whether it's tennis or swimming or biking, that running connects us to mother nature in a completely unique way.

Speaker 4: (11:41)
And when I, when you know, when I spent time with the Navajo and people will see in the film are our main Navajo character. Sean Martin says, when you run your feet are praying to mother earth, you're breathing in father sky. You're showing them, you're praying to them, you're showing them that you're willing to work for the blessings of mother earth. And that's a philosophy that I've seen reflected in traditional cultures all over the world. And that was in Sri Chinmoy. His philosophy, even though we don't actually, nobody really consider as Eastern philosophy as something that really revolves around an act of, of, of physical fitness, like running. Yeah. But in a sense, you know, it was men and women, humanity's first religion, that idea of connecting to nature and the energies both within and without through our feet. So when, when, when he kind of presented that to me and to others, that blew my mind, but I wasn't really ready for the philosophy. You know, I ran 800 meters and the 1500 meters, but when I moved to New York to study with them in 1997 that was the summer that the 3,100 mile race was launched and I hadn't, I hadn't even done a marathon. So the idea of doing 60 miles a day or 52 days just blew my mind.

Speaker 3: (13:03)
Yeah, absolutely. How does the human body, I mean I've, I've done, you know, the longest I've run is like through New Zealand, like 3000, 250 Ks in 42 days, which is not as much money per day is what they were doing. Given we were on the road and doing book tours and things at the same time. But the, the amount of pain in the suffering that you do go through and people have often said to me, did you reach this flow state? And then you became a, and I know that a lot of people experience that. And I, and I have to say I had had times or flow state when I was in a flow state, but unfortunately I couldn't leave a hole myself in that flow state. And the, the suffer face did, you know, it was about, you know, overcoming a lot of pain amazing levels of fatigue with a lot of willpower which we know as limited, you know, we will have a limited amount of willpower.

Speaker 3: (14:09)
And, and I was always hoping to reach that state of self transcendence really. And, and Neveah, but I hadn't been a catered myself to meditation and to the other sides of all that. Probably enough looking back which I'm much more into these days. But back then it was all about, you know, the physical, mental, the mental strength and the physical strength to actually prepare your body for this battle going in. And this is a completely different approach to what Sri, Jim NOI head and what these people that are doing the 3,100 have really it's, and I wonder how do they actually get to that, you know, as someone who's don't done a hell of a lot of running and not really achieved that flow state for long periods of time, at least how the heck do they do it.

Speaker 4: (15:00)
So there, there, there are two types of runners in the race and you know, again, no superiority or inferiority, but there are very few people on earth like you that have the mental fortitude to like will themselves through 40, 45, 50 days, you know, of of doing, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, a hundred Ks per day. Like, you know, that willpower will only take you so far. And, and in your darkest moments, you know, in the run, willpower is not going to offer you any light. If it's gone, then it's just Sufferfest. So a lot of people who come to the 3,100, whether they, there, they come from a background of faith or not, they realize either in their first attempt or beforehand that if they don't kind of develop access to a place within themselves where they can be happy, simply just happy in the worst moments.

Speaker 4: (15:58)
If they can't be in that flow state at will, then it's going to be a long 52 days. And you know, a lot of people, I would say probably at least a third to a half of people who do it the first time, you know, it's, it's it's a mixture of pleasure and pain and those moments like you experienced in, in your, in your cross-country run, those moments are enough to get you up the next day. But they're not necessarily gonna fuel every single mind mile. That said, it's like the people that come back and do it over and over and over, either through the race or outside the race, they really develop the power of meditation and at the same time, like unlike your race, and I think you'll appreciate this more than most, the reason why they do the race on a half mile loop is so that you have access to your aid every half a mile.

Speaker 4: (16:53)
You have access to a bathroom every half a mile. There's no traffic. There's foot traffic on this loop from just the public, but it's a pretty isolated area of New York and you don't have to worry about cars or anything. So in that sense your mind can like stop forgetting about the surroundings and, and it's, it's a lot easier that way. So that said, it's like this race, like the people that get the most out of it come at it the way you would now that come at it, knowing that you need to have access to that meditative side of you and you need to train with that in mind. It's like you have to find a way to find joy or happiness in those moments of exertion. And that doesn't come spontaneously out in the suffer Fest. You have to build that in your training.

Speaker 3: (17:38)
Yeah. And you have to develop that skill and the years and years of meditation, I should imagine to be able to reach that state. And that's something that fascinates me now. And I'm in, I'm developing, you know, those skills of late, but it's something that I wish on head back then instead of just the will and mindset. And I'm doing this no matter what. And, and it surprises me that how many people can override all of the the pain and the, you know, we do have an amazing ability to deal with things. But I cannot, I cannot, in all honesty, say to you, I enjoy it or I was happy in doing a lot of those races. There was a lot of, you know, I want to achieve this. It's a challenge. It's an opportunity to find out who I am. And I think when we, when we connect to nature and we do find out so much about ourselves and so even though I didn't approach it from a spiritual point of view, I think the stuff that I learned from it has been so, so powerful to helping me in, in everyday life.

Speaker 3: (18:51)
In, in getting through obstacles, other people that are doing these types of things, in your opinion just more, are they tapping into a higher power? Are they able to actually leave the the, the suffering behind in some way?

Speaker 4: (19:12)
That's a great question. So like going to the time that we spent with the Bushman and the Kalahari, these cultures that have been running for literally 125,000 years, they say you cannot separate running from God. Of course, if you want to run to become a better looking person running, we'll give that to you. If you want to run to become healthy running, we'll do that for you. But if you run with the intention, I mean this is wild, but if you run with the intention of getting closer to the divine part of yourself, to the divine part of the universe, whatever you, you label that as running, we'll get you there. I mean, just like if you meditate for just power of concentration, it'll do it. If you meditate to feel a little bit of peace, it'll do it. But if you meditate for a self discovery to discover the oneness you have with the divine, that's everywhere.

Speaker 4: (20:07)
Meditation will do that. And so when it, when it comes to running this particular race, people come into it as a pilgrimage. You know, you can either come into it what the mental attitude of like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to achieve this. But there was a runner on an Israeli multi-day champion and Coby Orrin who did the race, I think in 2017 and across the first thousand miles he was pushing. And he actually sat in Israeli national record for the fastest time to a thousand miles in the midst of this 3,100 mile race. But he realized that the true meaning of this race wouldn't reveal itself unless he moved into a completely different state of mind. And he realized that he had to take the race as a pilgrimage. And what that meant was not thinking about your splits, not thinking about how many miles you're doing each day, but really finding a way to focus on the meaning of each action of each step.

Speaker 4: (21:06)
And when he got into that sense of, or lack of expectation, and when he got into that sense of focus, he realized that there was, there was joy, there was actually happiness by looking at the moments, by looking at the specific actions and the steps and that happiness wasn't going to come. Looking at your watch or looking at your daily mile totals, that happiness kind of existed in the middle of all that. But again, it's like, it all sounds like fun and games, but unless we had that kind of intention, we don't actually find where happiness really exists.

Speaker 3: (21:40)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, overcoming changing perspective. I mean, I never went into races with the, the thought of winning, to be honest, most of the time it was all about, you know, survival getting through to the other in some which way. And I've had some very spiritual type experiences underway. Perhaps induced by, you know, fatigue, sleep deprivation, those types of things, hallucinations. And the things that you actually discover about yourself are just absolutely mind blowing, even without the spiritual aspect. But I do wish now that I had gone more into that side of things to be able to overcome the limitations. You know, what worries me nowadays as a, as a running coach and we train $700 sleets all around the world is, is the danger that is involved with ultra marathon running. Because there is, you know, you can do permanent damage.

Speaker 3: (22:44)
I've done some damage to my body. Why do these guys not have physical damage from doing these extreme races or do they? I've had, you know, big problems with things like rhabdomyolysis kidneys, you know, not functioning properly from repeatedly breaking down too much muscle. Things like that, fibroid problems, adrenal problems, adrenal burnout. Do these guys ever suffer from those sort of normal physical breakdowns? Of course, muscle tears and in those sorts of things as well. And if not, why not? Why do they not have that limitation, those very human limitations on them

Speaker 4: (23:26)
That, that, that, that's a great question. You know, as, as opposed to most ultra distance running, I mean this is more akin to your, your, your 42 days across New Zealand where you can't push it. You know, you can't win the 3,100 mile race in a day, but you can lose it in a day and it's not wanting a 24 hour race where you can say like, I can push myself past the limit because I can sleep for two weeks and I can take care of like the damage I do across the next six months or a year with the 3,100. Imagine doing a hundred K then waking up again and doing it again and then waking up again and doing it again. And the, the, the leaders are, are, are at about 120 K per day. So it's a totally different mindset. I mean, you know, they can't, they Canyon say that when you run long distances, whether they're 10 Ks or marathons, you have to run dumb.

Speaker 4: (24:20)
The UMB like in the 3,100 you have to have like a real sense of softness between your ears. You know, even physiologically, it's like if your, if your mind is thinking and thinking and thinking, your face muscles get tense, which tenses up, you know, your upper cervical vertebra, which have ramifications all the way down your body and you start getting repeated. Use injuries. Your, your knees aren't aligned, your tabs aren't aligned. But frankly it all starts in the mind. And so if you can find a way not to be in your mind, to cultivate, you know, your heart, your spiritual heart, that things that you focused on in meditation and bring those feelings and emotions and sense of self, sense of peace, sense of joy into your one, then it becomes an entirely different experience physiologically. You know, you're much more in tune with what's going on. Speaker 4: (25:14) You're much more in tune with the sense of balance. You have more patients. But in that patience, when you're not pushing, you can also experience a sense of happiness that you, you, you typically don't get in shorter races. And when I mean shorter like, you know, 24 hours and less, where are you going? Like, I've got to get there. I've got to get there. I can't stop. I can't stop. You know, when you've got that type of an attitude in a race, you, you rarely dissociate from your mind. I mean, the trick for those of us wanting shorter races is finding ways in training like the Kenyans to completely get rid of expectation and to find a way to get into that flow state in the first couple of miles.Speaker 3: (25:53)Yup. Yeah. And it does association. I mean, I definitely use it to some degree, obviously not to the degree that I would like to have used it and being able to take your mind away from the pain and the suffering in the body. And that's one of the tools that I, you know, teach about a little bit. And I do find like when you get into a rhythm, a rhythm is something that that is meditative. And I'm often, if I'm running behind, someone will use their feet as a little flicker of they fry, they fried and they, it's almost a trance like state that you can get into. But I can't keep it in the forever. That's a, that's the key point I think. And that's the difference between these guys. So they are tapping into things that we as, you know, average not so spiritual human beings, if you like, for the ones who have a bit of expression and you know, can't tap into.Speaker 3: (26:52) And that's what I find absolutely fascinating because I know what it takes to run 70 Ks a day. I cannot imagine the amount of pain that it would take to run 120 days beyond. It's certainly beyond my physical limitations. And the, the amount of pain that you'd have to overcome us is, is phenomenal. But what you were saying there about stress and stress is I listened to an interview with dr Chatterjee that you were talking about stress and how, why can't AIDS epidemic in our world. And it's one of the killers and it's one of the most problematic things. And we are living in a cult stunt state of alertness and fight or flight sort of state because of the society that we live. And we're no longer being chased by lions, but we seem to be living in that constant state is meditation and using even this, running this self transcendent, running a way of calming the body and stopping those stress responses.Speaker 4: (27:59)
So the curious thing is that running is humanity's oldest physical practice, maybe dance as well. That movement through your feet and there is something electric when you're aware of it, between the connection between mother earth and our feet, our lungs breathing in oxygen and air, there's something deeply nourishing and effecting that way. At the same time, meditation is humanity's oldest practice of contemplation. Not just getting rid of stress, but understanding who we are, why we're here, what we're meant to do in any given moment. And meditation gives us access to different parts of our body and our, or of our being, I should say. It's like we've got a tool belt on and we've got 15 sets of tools, but we're using a hammer 24 hours a day. You know, it's like we might not even know all the other tools that we've got, but meditation is a very simple, very natural way for people to go, wow, when I'm stressed, I don't have to like think about it.

Speaker 4: (29:05)
I don't have to like, you know, just become obsessed with what's going on. There's another part of me that will allow me to feel something different, to allow time, for example, to take its course at the same time. If, if this dress requires something hyper-focused, you know, we can pull that tool out and apply it to the moment and get rid of that stress in a very constructive, you know, analytical way. Some meditation and running, you know, are really the two oldest tools that we have. But it's a question of, of coming back to that as, as a civilization, as a species. And you know, obviously as individuals we can come back to that just, you know, we just have to, we just have to take those first steps.

Speaker 3: (29:45)
Well, I actually had to an argument or not an argument, but a discussion with reduce your, of the, the portal, which is a new movie that's come out. Tom Cronin, who was on the podcast a few weeks ago and he was, he's, it's all about meditation and the power of meditation to heal the whole world. And I'm a very, very interesting man. And I said to him, I believe meditation running is a meditation. And he said to me, no, it's not a meditation. It's running. And I said, I know, and I had this discussion with an amazing no, because running you are in a sympathetic nervous system state and you're not in a parasympathetic state.

Speaker 4: (30:23)
It's that if for four, I would say for most people not myself included. That was true up until a few years ago. But I F I was trying to understand why the people who do the 3,100 mile race, most of them come back and do it a second time, a third time. The main character in the movie, Ashby Hunnel, you know, did it again last summer for get this a grand total of 15 times he's completed that race 15 times when when you understand that running and meditation can actually go together, you know, and you've explore what that truly means. I mean, again, it's, it's not simply the fact and I, I get where he's coming from. It's not simply saying like, my running is my meditation. The way that chopping onions is my meditation. It's like, you know, I, I get the kind of like, you know, hyperbole that that comes with that. But if you get into a state in running where you're completely beyond your mind, where you're completely in that flow state and, and you know, it's like the definition or the flow state is not an absence of pain, but it's finding happiness in the, in that exertion. And there there was a Hopi elder. Hopi is there. There are tribes in central Arizona, some of the best runners anywhere

Speaker 3: (31:46)
We uncover the swipe for that with a series. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (31:50)
Yes. W a Hopi elder had told us when I was on a prayer run with a bunch of native kids in Arizona, he told us as, as we headed off for monument Valley, he said, find joy through exertion. And that was mind blowing to me because how many of us, when, when we're really working hard, number one, feel joy, number one or number two, even know that we can feel joy in those moments of intense effort. And he said, not only do you need to realize that joy exists in the most extreme forms of exertion, but you can find it. You just have to be aware of it and find a way to, to tap into it. I mean, that totally changed the way I race that only that changed the way I run. It's like in those moments when you're really pushing to learn that joy actually exists there.

Speaker 4: (32:43)
That you can go beyond that pain by tapping into joy. I mean that that's how to get into flow. That's literally step one and to getting into flow. And when you're in that flow state as, as you know, it's like you can have experiences or you can tap into those same places within your being that you try to get to in your highest form of meditation. That said, learning and knowing how to meditate is going to help you get into that state a lot easier. And if you get into that state and running, you're going to be able to get into that state when you're meditating. So I completely disagree based on experiences that I've had personally, but more importantly, seeing these cultures that have understood the connection between prayer running and the spirit for tens of thousands of years.

Speaker 3: (33:33)
Oh, I'm so glad you've said that because I've, you know, had a debate with myself over the last few weeks because I took him on what he said, and I thought, well, that's probably got an element of truth about, you know, we're looking at the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system, and you, when you are in the meditative state, you have to be in the sympathetic state. But I have that, I've had that experience of being in a meditative state, running granted I can't do it on demand, but I have been there. So I, I was having trouble with that sort of like autonomy, if you like. They, they're sort of opposites. And that gives me permission to go back to the thought. And yes, actually there's a type of meditation and it is a powerful one and it's something that I've missed like the last four years.

Speaker 3: (34:19)
Sandra, you you wanna know, but I had a mom who had a mess of aneurysm and my listeners know the story and was in a vegetative state, basically would have any high function at the age of 74. And obviously the last four years I just stopped doing the long distance running because I had to completely focus on her rehab and that, you know, they're trying to make a living was all there was 24 hours in a day basically. And now four years later, I've just written her book. It comes out in March this year. It's called relentless and tells the story of, of bringing her back and she's now completely normal again. At the age of 78 against all odds. And I created, I created this comeback journey that I've been on with her, on to the fact that I've done this running.

Speaker 3: (35:06)
If I had not have had the mental skillset that I developed through running, I wouldn't have been able to, to do the things that I did with here to look outside the square to, to push through boundaries that most people would have, you know, quit long, long time ago. And to go up against some medical system and say, no, this is the, she will come back. And this the story is very powerful because it's in why I'm so passionate about getting this book out there is because it taps into these types of tools that we discover when we are doing these extreme things like you know, running long distance races and we learned stuff about ourselves and then how the body works and how that we are capable of so much more than what your average local doctor will tell you. What capable of, I mean, have you ever been to a local doctor and they've said, look, you can't run anymore. You've got a sore knee. Yeah,

Speaker 4: (35:59)
Yeah. I mean, I mean th th th the thing to understand is that we physiologically evolved as runners. You know, from, from an evolutionary biology standpoint and all your, all your listeners will know that the humanities first advantage as bipedal beings was number one, unlike Quadra peds, we could step without having to breathe. Many people can imagine what a dog looks like or a horse looks like in full sprint when their legs are extended, you know, splayed out on the, on the an extension. Their lungs, inhale air. When the legs come together as they all do, they all come together in the middle of the, of the center of gravity. It's like that's when the lungs are forced to expel air. So they're incredible anaerobic beings, but we're the only animals by virtue of standing on two feet that can like trot and not have to breathe every single time we take a step.

Speaker 4: (36:56)
And so that's given us a tremendous sense of endurance. You know, we can breathe, you know, multiple times per step, which Quadro peds can't do. And you know, we can, we can breathe every three or four steps, which also keeps our Arabic level kind of pretty low. So it's like, if you, if you look at that, you know, human beings are meant to move on our feet. The things that take us away from that state of being are all the, all the afflictions of modern day life. But I would say weirdly enough, like I, I'm on the medical team at the 3,100 mile race too, and 95% of the day to day trauma that the runners face. The pain, you know, we can take away through a deep tissue, we can take away through Raul thing, but it tends to come back day in and day out. And when that starts happening to runners, I tell them like, look, your problems are mental.

Speaker 4: (37:50)
Like there's no reason why if these problems are taken away through through some sort of therapy that they, that they should come back the next day. I find that 90% of injuries that people have through, you know, basically through a non-traumatic running racing is totally different. But when you're just in training and you're just doing like low stress low intensity type of stuff, you know, maybe heavy miles, the injuries that are repeated use injuries are really due to bad form, which really comes from a state of mental unrest from a state of anxiety and not allowing the mind to release. And then the body subsequently to release.

Speaker 3: (38:31)
There's not so much rinks in the core strength and you know, like we teach about, you know, you've got to have a strong core and strong had some things to be able to be upright. You were saying it's more of a mental stimulus. That's, that's the problem that we are because of the stress that we're all under or that we are thinking we are under we're actually inflicting that on our bodies as, as much as anything else.

Speaker 4: (38:56)
I mean of course is since most of us don't spend day to day, you know, I spend, spend our day to day kind of inner body the way we might've as hunters and gatherers. Yeah. Yeah. We need to do all the range of motion, all the core activities that we don't get from our, our, our standard nine to five jobs. Yeah. But still like you have plenty of students that do all of that and that still gets Phantom injuries. Yep. And then I'll take it

Speaker 3: (39:22)
Good. You know, I can do everything and I'll still be struggling with one or two injuries

Speaker 4: (39:27)
And that come that that comes entirely from the mind. Like the 3,100 mile race is a great Petri dish for it. Because like I said, like, you know, like LA last summer, Ashby hunt all did it and I was, his handler. It, I would kind of take care of his afflictions, you know, every break he had every six or eight hours. And after a few days of of him having calf pain and taking it away through simple, you know, deep tissue or, or Rolfing or, or, or you know, active release stuff. And I just told them like, I can take care of this every single day. But the reason why you're having these problems is somehow you're, you're not running fluidly, you know? And that comes in that race from overthinking, from stressing out, for thinking about stuff that you shouldn't be thinking about. Mainly from, from thinking at all.

Speaker 4: (40:18)
Yeah. And so I go, I go back to the time I go back to the time we spent with Sean Martin on the Navajo reservation. We're all you're supposed to do when you run is listen to the sound of your feet. Breathe in the universe through your lungs. And when you do that, you begin to feel the importance of the connection of your feet and mother earth and your breath and father sky. And that nourishes you. And that gives you the sense of happiness that you need from running. But most of us, myself included when I go for a run and looking at my watch, I'm looking at my pace, I'm thinking about my workout. I might think about like, you know what I'm going to eat afterwards, what I'm going to do afterwards. My, my, my, my experience of running is already done, you know, and I'm getting nothing out of each moment. I'm only just checking off a workout. And that's the difference. It's like unplugging from our playlist, you know, you can run with a GPS watch. We all do. But not worrying about what your watch says to you, but listening to yourself, listening to your thoughts, listening to your heart, and taking, running as a spiritual discipline rather than as an escape. I mean, that's when the fruits of running really, really coming to the fore.

Speaker 3: (41:34)
Yeah. And I'm just going back briefly to that story with mum. The difficulty if I haven't been able to do the long distance running in the, in the last, you know, three and a half, four years and I've missed the clarity of mind that came with it. You know, when you, when you spend hours a day running is indulgence as that sounds. It actually, you know, I had time to work through the problems that I was facing in my life and to get them out, it's very cathartic, sort of a, a thing to do. And when you don't have that, you can be missing that piece quite badly. And then, you know, so they, I think running is a physical release and a spiritual release in a, in a mental release. It's a, it's all rolled into one and the connection that you say to, to mother earth.

Speaker 3: (42:28)
And I think this is one of the major, major problems that especially our young generation are facing because we so on devices and we so connected all of the time that we have no time to just be in our own thoughts or just being with ourselves and to just be in movement. We just constantly wanting entertainment or connection. And, and not being connected to mother Ruth not being outside in the burning sun, the freezing rain, the, all of those things that really make us feel good. You know, when you go for a run in a storm, you can't come back, you know, if anything but invigorated and like alive, you know. And it might've been hard and it might've been cold and it might've been this, but you're alive. You're, you're feeling you're alive. And I think that they, in their very artificial world where everything's air conditioned and we jumped from Avalon to a garage, into the car and off to the mall and you know, all of these things is just disconnecting us so completely from, from the way that we are meant to be living generally, like outside of just running, but just not being connected to nature is, is killing us, I think.

Speaker 3: (43:44)
Do you agree?

Speaker 4: (43:46)
I'm, I'm totally with you now. You know, imagine that 3,100 mile race on a city block. It's sidewalk. Almost a K it's, but it's a square. So it's like you're going around right angles. It takes place in New York city summer, you know, for for almost eight weeks where the temperature last summer climbed above 41 42 seas. For a day or two. But much of the time in, in the heat of the day, you know, you're talking between 32 and 36 Celsius. Again, it's like unrelenting. You're pretty close to some major roads. There's buildings all around and it's not like you're running through the grand Canyon, but that, but that said, it's like if you're, you know, on the South Island or if you're in the grand Canyon, it's really easy to feel the power of mother nature. But our, our Navajo character's father is a, is a as a medicine man.

Speaker 4: (44:39)
And he told me mother earth is under the sidewalk to no mother earth is under the asphalt. That is mother earth. So on this course, you know, people are, are desperately, desperately struggling to maintain their connection to nature despite being in an urban setting. And you know, when you've got that type of intense focus on what you need when it comes to you, it's, it's in a much higher dosage than you can imagine. So like, yeah, in the 3,100, that connection to mother earth, even though they're running around in circles on a sidewalk, it's absolutely essential.

Speaker 3: (45:16)
Absolutely. And that you don't need, you know, people often say, well we don't lock them did on these rices and the Sahara and the Gobi desert and Dave belly and Australia and all like Himalayas. To be honest, actually it wasn't about,

Speaker 4: (45:33)
Yeah,

Speaker 3: (45:33)
The views, it wasn't about what you were seeing, keeping you going. In fact, most of the time, unfortunately, you know, your heat is usually down on the ground trying not to fall over the next thing or you're so, so tired. You can have the enjoy your surroundings very often. And, and of course it is more inspiring to at least go to these places and you know, in the before and the after and the cultural exchange that you have. But actually during the race, it's not about the beauty, you know, it's and running around and ran a block or running through a desert. They're both connected the both outside and nature. Like you say, they both are.

Speaker 4: (46:15)
And w one of the great things about this race happening in New York is that whatever you need, whether it's a new pair of shoes, whether it's a very specific type of medicine you're in New York city, someone will be able to get a volunteer. We'll be able to get it for you within a couple of hours. And as you know, it's like when you travel for these like international ultras, very often if you don't have something with you is stuffed, you are not going to get it. Yeah. It's not going to be a good experience for you.

Speaker 3: (46:44)
No, it must be. Yeah, it definitely has a be a great advantage to have all of the things around you and that half-mile block, although it's, you know, mind numbing and people think, Oh gosh, going around in a circle. I mean I've only done like 24 hour races, but they are easier than running across the desert per se, where you don't have access to anything. And if you've forgotten something, you're in deep, deep trouble, physically in trouble. But it does become about the mind and what you are, what you were doing. The so this, this movie is coming to New Zealand. This phone was [inaudible].

Speaker 4: (47:23)
Yeah. Yeah. So from February 10th through, we'll be traveling from, I think we're going to be an Oakland, Wellington, Christchurch maybe a few other places in between doing single nights screenings. The information is going to be up on our Facebook page, which I think is facebook.com forward slash 3,100 film and afterwards, after the 20th, that you can't make, one of those screenings will be up on all the online platforms. But Lisa, I would love to have to be able to, to, to ask you questions at one of our screenings. You know, I'm not sure what city you're in, but

Speaker 3: (48:02)
It would be fun. It would be really, really fun. I think we can make that happen. I live in a little place called new Plymouth, so you probably not coming here, although that would be awesome. But I can travel to, you know, walking into Wellington or something to make sure that I get to see this and I've seen the movie. But to actually meet you would be of course just, you know. Awesome. and you know, people out there, how do they get tickets so they can just go onto Facebook and find out where the screenings are. Get me tickets via that way.

Speaker 4: (48:30)
Yeah. The, the, the, the movie screenings are going to be in proper theaters and all of those cities. And so, you know, on our Facebook page there's links to the times and dates and we're going to be adding a few more things here and there. But yeah, all the tickets can be purchased online.

Speaker 3: (48:45)
Fabulous. And we will put all the links in the, in the show notes and stuff and all that. I do want to ask you a couple more questions about you and your background because you've had a fascinating life. This isn't the first movie you've done. Tell us about how did you get into filmmaking? Cause I'm very fascinated by filmmaking. I made a couple of, well eight documentaries, but on a very, very low budget documentaries. And I know I want to know, you know, how did you fall into this area and do the amazing things that you've done. So tell us a little bit about your life.

Speaker 4: (49:19)
I, I'm, I'm a Jack of all trades, master of none. Know I, I moved from California to New York to basically, you know, S to just study what's rich and white and spend a few years even with a good university degree, you know, just spend a few years working in health food stores and just, you know, getting to understand who I was and what I really wanted to do in life before launching into a career or whatnot. But switch in my head a lot of friends from other Theresa to Desmond Tutu and Mikhail Gorbachev and Mandela. And as I got more interested in kind of humanity specifically in, in like international development, humanitarian aid, human rights, I began having opportunities to work with some most rich and moist friends. So I got a chance to, to work with Desmond Tutu and you know, a ton of other people and gradually kind of like made my way into the world of humanitarian aid and human rights.

Speaker 4: (50:18)
So I kind of worked in that, in that sphere for about 15 years till around 2010, 2011. And you know, realize that a lot of the projects that I really, really enjoyed were ones that required me to take photos or to make little small documentaries, just being the only person with a camera for hundreds of miles. And I began making some short films, like my first one that most of them have been on sports, weirdly enough. My, my first one was called ocean monk and it was like an, a personal exploration of the connection between meditation and surfing in the winter in New York city. Of all things. I mean there is surfing like you know, in New York city in the winter here, you know, you might walk through, you know, half a meter of snow or a meter of snow to get to the water. But you can imagine like when the city's going like 24 hours a day to be out in the water was no one else around is probably the only experience of real nature we can get in New York city.

Speaker 4: (51:21)
But my, my second film explored, you know, kind of a curious aspect of streets and noise life. You know, after he stopped being able to do distance running, he took up weightlifting and he left, he lifted astronomical pounds, you know, in fact, when I was in New Zealand in 2002 and 2003 I was actually on a three month trip with him and one of, one of the cutest things he did was he went to a farm, you know, not too far away from Topo. A sheep farm and sheep are put into little cages and put onto this contraption that's reaching. Mike could sit under and he would like push up, you know, a cage with a sheep on each hand and you know, lifted a thousand sheep. It was just, it was really, really cute and childlike but also kind of mind boggling. And the physicality.

Speaker 4: (52:11)
I made a film called challenging and possibility, but then kind of went back to my human rights roots and made a film about the exploitation of farm workers in the United States. And that was, that actually achieved some success. You know, we had some famous people that were involved, Forrest Whitaker and then this movie 3,100 run and become was my second, you know, big feature length project. Wow. Oh, I should add as well. Just jumping back to the last topic that there have been two Kiwis that have done that 3,100 mile race, a man named Jade Lynn who did it I think in 2006 but there is a three time female finisher of the race. Hurry to Davey's. She lives in the States, but she's actually gonna be in New Zealand with us for all these screenings. They, cause she's doing a series of events during that time called the peace run. It just basically, it's like a, an Olympic torch style relay where they're going to be running from Oakland all the way down. You know, obviously what the ferry all the way down to Christchurch and stopping in a zillion schools. So she'll be at all though. She'll be at all the screenings too. I'll get to make a hopefully.

Speaker 3: (53:27)
And we also have another very famous lady. He used to do the 2000 kilometer race in New York city. Sandy Barwick. Oh yeah. Cause she's [inaudible] who was my role model. I feel like as a little girl growing up and who, who came with me to the family when I ran through death Valley, an incredible woman fates that again, just defy I think she had nine world records. I think some of them still stand. So we've got a, you know, great tradition in New Zealand of incredible runners and, and she was certainly way above where it, anywhere I ever got to. So we've got some amazing people. And on the note of shirt tree, Jim, he wanted to tell you just a little cute story. I was in the nationals. We have the streets of NOI, 24 hour race in Oakland every year.

Speaker 3: (54:17)
And it was, she was actually very, very sad while we were doing it was, it was in 2007 and we were doing the 24 hour race and a day before the race. [inaudible] He died as you would. Well, and, and so the people were devastated who were organizing. Right. And so they all just dropped everything and flew to New York basically. And I didn't really understand the whole street and rowing movement at that stage. I just, just was a runner turning up to the race to run and all of a sudden the rice was no longer happening. So one of the other runners and I, we decided we're doing it anyway, so we just, we ran around the track for hours. Well, I need actually made it to 20 hours that they ended. It was a absolutely torrential rain. The poor people in the street show me the way that were just so devastated.

Speaker 3: (55:16)
I just had to go, you know, they just had to be there to say goodbye to the master. And it was just a really for us back home running around in the rain, me and one other guy. And it was one of those special memories because it wasn't an official race. It wasn't going to be the official national race. And I'd been trying for years to qualify for the New Zealand team to go to the world champs. So I had to wait another year before I qualified, but we did get there in the end. But yeah, just the dedication to him was, was really moving and that they all just, they just dropped tolls and all just flow to, to New York overnight. It was really they were so, they were so devastated, obviously. Because he was such a great man and, and it was a man who, who really unified the religions rather than, you know, things are, don't matter. From what I understand. He was a very unifying figure. And yeah, for sure. I mean, his philosophy was, was, was love of God. Again, from an Eastern tradition, we don't really have the singular

Speaker 4: (56:24)
Concept of, of God being just, just, you know, a masculine energy, you know, it can be anything and everything. And, you know, we, we worship many different forms of, of the divine. But you know, his was about, you know, kind of an ancient path that way. But at the same time it was very accepting of people no matter what their backgrounds were. And, you know, he felt that you could live in the outer world and still achieve the highest. You didn't necessarily need to become a monk and renounce everything. And I know he loved New Zealand, you know, he, he had a, he's had a long friendship with a number of Kiwi runners like Alison Rowe, who he, I think he first met during the the New York city marathons. And you know, just to my great benefit, when we opened the movie in theaters in New York city and in November of 2018, it was during the week of the New York city marathon. And Alison was there to be inducted in the New York city marathon hall of fame, and she came to one of our screenings and did a panel. So I got to meet a lifelong hero of mine. And yeah. It's like, it's interesting because all the people that I've met through each and Moy still have, you know, you know, some sort of a connection with activities that his followers still kind of hold around the world.

Speaker 3: (57:41)
Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, even my life. So through that we connected in some weird, weird, bizarre way, you know, and that's fantastic. And, and th the, the one that you did was the on the food food chain. Tell us a little bit about the food chain movie. And that was all about the, the site of conditions for workers migrant workers.

Speaker 4: (58:04)
Yeah. So most countries require some sort of foreign labor to pick their food. And especially when you're looking at like industrialized countries. I mean even England, you know, has had pre-Brexit you know, had a lot of, a big requirement for Polish workers, for Chinese workers, for Thai workers to come seasonally to pick food. You know, we know these are the hardest, most labor intensive jobs anywhere in the world and most people in developed countries don't want to do that kind of work no matter how much it pays. But in as we know it, those types of jobs don't pay much at all. I guess the big corollary in the South Pacific are the, the fishing fleets with a lot of indenture Thai workers, Filipino workers, Burmese workers working in essentially some in some cases like realistically slave like conditions. But the movie really delves not just interpersonal stories but looks at the kind of economic system behind it.

Speaker 4: (59:05)
Most of us, most places in the world kind of follow a food system that America set up. And that's like a supermarket grocery system where we expect to buy the cheapest possible food, good quality, but like very low prices. And w you know, Walmart in the U S a big chain kind of started that. And from their standpoint, they insisted on buying it ultra low prices from farmers and from meat producers and dairies, but buying in very, very high volume. And that created a set of conditions that not only had made it really hard to be a farmer in the us, but has made farm work essentially, you know, extremely low wage. Now we've see, we see these supermarkets all over the world and this is really a model that was created in the U S and exported to other countries. Even though you know, obviously there's, there's chains that are completely, you know, owned by people in their country.

Speaker 4: (01:00:04)
But when that supermarket system, that idea of convenience and being able to have the same types of food, you know, 365 days a year, that's made us in the U S rely on a lot of like New Zealand blueberries. But at the same time, you know, you guys get a lot of stuff into your country that are, that are not seasonal, that aren't grown in New Zealand, but that you still expected very low prices and we don't necessarily know the ripple down the food chain that it's causing farmers to really, really make very little at the same time. It creates this reliance on labor that's very colonial, that's very almost kind of feudal as well. And that's what the, the movie food chains kind of looks into.

Speaker 3: (01:00:47)
Well thank you for bringing it to light because it is a worldwide problem and that, you know, we have migrant workers here as well from the islands. You know, I, when I was the young girl I used to work on, on fruit, on, you know, Apple picking and kiwifruit cracking, I can tell you it's bloody hard work and very little money.

Speaker 4: (01:01:07)
Yeah. So yeah, so you, you, you, you, you absolutely know that it's, it's not something you would ever want to do the rest of your life.

Speaker 3: (01:01:15)
Oh my, no, definitely not. I'd rather run the 3,100 actually. There you go. There you go. Look st I would have taken up so much of your time today and I just really wanted to thank you for all the work you do, all the goodness that you put out into the world because it's very, very powerful what you are sharing and you're making people think and you're making people aware of some of these humanitarian stuff that you've done earlier. And also with this new wonderful movie that you bought out, everybody, you have to go and see this movie. It is, if you're into running, obviously you have to go. But if you are into just finding out about what the human body is capable of, what the human mind is capable of, and you want to see very average. And I put that into, you know, a quotation marks, average looking, average appearing, people doing incredible things.

Speaker 3: (01:02:06)
And that's the beautiful thing about ultra marathon running. We don't all look like Hussein bolt or Paula Radcliffe or or some, you know, elite specimen. We just normal people, but with very, very strong minds and strong willpower to do things. And in this case, it's all about the spiritual side as well. So thank you very much for doing this movie, for putting it out there. And I can't wait to see it and I hope we can connect and not, I can get to one of those screenings that would be absolutely fabulous. Meet you. It'll make my entire trip worthwhile. Right. We've got to make that happen. Thanks for not Sanjay. Thanks so much, Lisa.

Speaker 1: (01:02:48)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at Lisatamati.com.

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In this episode, Lisa talks to her business partner/Coach Neil Wagstaff about resetting your mindset and how to get your brain to do what it should. We all have goals and plans and as we head into a new year we are all making new years resolutions and dreaming of what the year could bring us. But how often do you fall off the bandwagon, how often do you sabotage your own goals and don't know why. Neil and Lisa discuss tricks to get your mind on track, to developing new habits, reprogramming your subconscious to get onboard with the plan and how to trick the limbic brain into doing what your conscious brain wants. We would like to thank our sponsors:

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You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa [inaudible] brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here and I am once again with Neil Wagstaff. How are you doing Neil? I'm good, I'm very good. And tonight Neil and I, this is just before Christmas that we were recording this and we want to, you know, we're coming up to new year's and time to reflect on what you did this year and it might be playing for next year's goals that you want to sit out. And we thought we would do a session on resetting your mindset. I knew. So we want to go over some tips and tricks and some things we use. Think about when you're setting goals and how you going to be able to stay on the right track more often. So first of all, you've got to set some goals. I knew where do we go from here?

Speaker 3: (00:56)
Is this the best place to start? Make sure there's a, there's a goal in a goal in place and make sure it's a clear goal. Make sure it was well outlined and make sure, most importantly, once you've got the goal in place, you understand why you are doing it.

Speaker 2: (01:09)
Why, why the why, the why. The why is a really important fact to see if you have a goal in itself. It's, it's in it. It's nothing. It's just a piece of paper that you wrote something or it's all of those. It's when you start unpacking the why that you want to get this goal. That's when you come into the emotional triggers and your values and all this sort of stuff that actually creates the action that actually creates the, the, the ability for you to overcome the obstacle obstacles in order to get to that goal. So it's really important to understand your why. Now when you're working with a client, what do you do to pull out the why if you like,

Speaker 3: (01:53)
Hey, it's, it's really making sure it's down in your, it's written down in your words, your language. It's, it's used, used the words that you, you actually come out of your mouth, the language you use. So as an example of someone had been very stereotypical, says they're gonna they might not want to lose weight and I'm going to then continuously ask why. And it's like literally peeling back the layers of an onion. So we want to, as you said, get deeper and deeper, fond at the emotional reason that's driving that. And once you keep putting back the layers, why, why do you want to lose? Why'd you want to lose weight? Well, I want to lose weight because I want to feel more confident. Okay. Why do you want to feel more confident? Because I want to be able to comfortably company run half marathon.

Speaker 3: (02:33)
Okay. And why'd you want to run the half marathon? Because I want to be a good role model for my children. Okay. And why do you want to do that? Because my dad wasn't a good role model to me, so I want to step up now, make sure that I'm really a straight to my children, that I'm moving and being regularly healthy. And am regularly active is, is what we need to do to, to move forward in a productive way. Once you get all those layers back, we've then got the words that you jump out. There will be things like confidence, health activity, role model, and then we can put that into a statement that actually means something. And that's the key thing is the statement that the all clients have in front of them should mean something to them. And then that statement, we are statements to write down on paper and then that is then put somewhere that they can see it on a regular basis daily.

Speaker 3: (03:21)
And for some people who are really encouraged to actually rewrite it on a weekly basis. So whether that's taught into update it into a Google doc or it's actually written down and rewritten. So that is just front of mind writing. We've, the experience I've had and firstly from doing myself actually having to write it out, just brings it back front and center again. You know, I want to be, for me, my key words that have been, I've been enrollment of my children being a superhero for them. I want them to look up at me like I'm a, I'm a superhero, so I want to remind myself that on a regular basis so that that's my why and once I put that clearly in my head, understand and let me do a little bit of work on purpose as well, but that's probably another podcast in itself.

Speaker 3: (04:00)
But really once you've got the goal written on paper, clearly there, then that is what you're going to base your daily decision on. Because if you really want to get to that and achieve it and get to that half marathon, do it in a time. You won't be the wrong mode. You want be the be the superhero you want to be. Then each day when you're making your decisions, you make your decisions purely based on your goal that's clear in your heads. And if it's not clear and you don't understand why, then it's so, so easy to take the wrong path and make the wrong decision each day because you're not very, very clear on what you're doing. If you're a hundred percent clear on what you're doing and taking the right path and making the right decision is a whole lot easier.

Speaker 2: (04:38)
Yup. And we have like two to 300 decisions a day to make. And so this is really, really important that we have these goals and these are the reasons why in the front of our brain all the time that it's how, and I actually find two that actually working that physically on an old fashioned note and piece of paper much better than on a computer. I find that it just, it gets in your brain more, you know, and you have it in front of you. And when we come to, I call them lawyer folk in the road, each decision that we have as a fork in the road and I can just decide to go lift, which will lead me to the path towards more success than the other one is away from the goals that I want to have. And if we take the, you know eating chocolate, what am I definite weaknesses in life is a chocolate and right.

Speaker 2: (05:22)
So when I come to the decision, I actually want to eat less chocolate. The chocolate sitting there in front of me and I can decide I'm going to either eat it because it tastes good or I can stick to my goals, which won't be to lose weight or to, to have a healthier diet. And then when I understand the why behind it, I can take a little bit more of a zoomed out view instead of just the taste and the immediate impulse. So we as human beings tend to run on Sudi sick and decision making impulses. And if we can to lay a decision for just a few seconds, sometimes we can override then impulse to just stick the chocolate in your mouth. Right? And, and so w when we zoom out a little bit and we see what's around the corner, cause often we come to a fork in the road and all you can see is the chocolate.

Speaker 2: (06:12)
Yes or no. You can't actually see you like you, you're not thinking about, well if I eat this chocolate and I do this behavior repeatedly is obviously one piece of chocolate isn't going to be a problem. But if I do this behavior repeatedly, then around the corner as perhaps disease round the corner is obesity around the corner was diabetes. And, and while negative health outcomes I say, and not a motivator, it's still a good thing to be able to zoom out and to understand, well actually I want to be fit. I want to feel good. When I got to the beach, the sear on the summer and we my bikini, I, I want to, you know, whatever it is that moves and motivates you, seen as more likely to be at least a ten second sex discussion in your mind about whether you're going to do it.

Speaker 2: (06:56)
And sometimes you'll start to win in those discussions. If you can just delay the impulse a little bit is as human beings we and this is scientists speaking, not me. We all go towards pleasure and away from pain. We don't like to move ourselves towards painful decisions. And, and when I first heard this, I was like, I don't agree with it. I, I, you know, running a marathon definitely can be painful. I knew, you know, or an ultramarathon there's a hell of a lot of pain and discipline and overcoming yourself. And they said yes, but you're still going towards pleasure because you bigger goal. And again, we're looking at the zoomed out view is actually leading you towards more pleasure. The goal of having the marathon done the middle around your neck, that, that feeling of achievement. So you are moving towards pleasure and that pleasure is bigger than the pain of having to overcome yourself to get out the door to go training this morning.

Speaker 2: (07:54)
Does it make sense? So the pleasure and pine thing, it can be just an immediate impulse, the pleasure of that Tyson, that chocolate is going to make me eat it right now. Or I take a slightly zoomed out view at the bigger goal and w w w worked towards the pleasure of being fitter and stronger and losing weight or whatever the goal is. And remember, this stuff is not just about food and training. This is not just about that. This is what every goal you have in your life and your career and your business. If you can take this, this method, if you like, this framework that we're trying to give you and see this as a real fork in the road. Get a picture with a, you know, a tree in the middle of the road that goes left in a road that goes right and picture that in your brain. And when you come to those decision points, try and think about what's around the corner and what is my bigger goal and zoom out a little bit and at the beginning, Neal, isn't it? Isn't it true that when you be stopped starving you habit, it's a really tough road at the,

Speaker 3: (08:56)
This is real, real hard and it's not. If it was easy, then we'd all be doing the right stuff all the time, but it's a real, what's worked for me personally and everyone we're working with is just really, you've got a fork in the road and just understanding that doing small things consistently will can lead you down the bad road. So consistently, as you said, in chocolate in small pieces daily will eventually lead to the you somewhere. You don't want to be consistently having four or five coffee today daily. In the short term it provide pleasure, but in the longterm it's going to take it somewhere you want to be. If you flip it round and often the Creighton, the new habit, it feels quite overwhelming. There's going to be a real big, big challenge, but if you just pick one or two things and work out, if I consistently do those day in, day out, it doesn't need to be massive things.

Speaker 3: (09:45)
It could be simply walking for an additional 15 to 20 minutes a day. It could be drinking a little bit more water each day. It could be something real simple, but you work out. I consistently do that and I do that every day, day in, day out. Then all of a sudden the path to the pleasure and the longterm goal gets a whole lot easier. So it's not massive things you need to look at and that's where a lot of people end up taking the wrong puffs. It's actually just too much to do and it's really not. It's consistently just the little things. And to your point, looking at 30 seconds of immediate pleasure looking out across and above that and into the future and seeing that, right? If I just leap frog over that go this way, then all of a sudden the results start coming.

Speaker 3: (10:27)
Health changes, body changes, how you're feeling changes. And now it becomes easier to make, make more future future decisions by agreed, yes. The habit for me is is the tough part, but consistent little bits each day and work out what are you willing to commit to? What can you commit to? Because a site, a lot of people's at, if you could be 50% further ahead from where you are now, would you take that and everyone goes, well yeah, so it's not like we're asking you to make a huge change. If you can make some a 50% improvement, which percentage wise doesn't sound massive, but some changes that are quiet re give you 50% improvement. That's goal. If you're 50% in three months time than you are today. That's some big improvements from a health point of view. Some big improvements from a fitness point of view, big improvements from a mindset point of view, big improvements from a business point of view. Whatever you apply this to is it gives you some big, some some big wins and I'll ask the question as well. What's the one thing if you did it consistently each day, who would make the biggest difference to your goal? Yeah,

Speaker 2: (11:27)
The 80 20 rule. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: (11:29)
One thing that I'm trying to do. Lots of little things. What's the one thing that will give you the biggest, best bang for your buck? What that out and then just go go at that. Because in a amongst time you're going to be glad this is

Speaker 2: (11:42)
In chopping things up into little bits that you can handle when you hear it. You know, it's like that analogy that I've used a lot of times about running through New Zealand and being totally overwhelmed by the thought of this 2000 plus kilometers and mum going to me just get to the Dame through Apple for status. Stop thinking about all that stuff. You know like if I say to, I'm going to eat healthy for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for the rest of my life, that's never going to happen. Cause on I myself, I know I'm not always going to win and that's okay. But if I say to myself like, I'm going to have five good dinners this week and I'm going to, I'm gonna not have a takeaways or something, then that's a small goal and I can manage this week and I'm focusing on just one or two things at a time.

Speaker 2: (12:25)
There was also, you know, when you, when you make a habit and you, you, you starting to develop a new habit, it takes about 60 days for the brain to be able to actually make a new pathway in the head. So we have what they call neural pathways. Now these are habits that you've formed and connections in your mind that make it, then the brain is very lazy and then it wants to use as little energy as possible. So when you create a pathway in your mind that repeat so behavior over and over again, it goes, Oh, this is easy. And it's, you've got a real big highway. If you can imagine you've made a big deep groove and the in your, in your brain, we're not physically but I a deep highway, that this is where the traffic is going every day and the brain knows this pathway.

Speaker 2: (13:13)
It knows this behavior. And so it becomes a, the path of least resistance. So how that translates to habit forming is it in the first few weeks, you're going to find it royally, really tough cause you're going to be running all willpower and decisions and the goals that you've set and having this front of mind and that requires some willpower. But willpower will, will run out on, you can tell you will run out on you. But what doesn't run out on ya is the fact that you've created this new neural pathway, this, you've created this habit. And then it actually becomes easier for the brain to just to, you know, I did the social example. I have a morning routine. I get out of bed, I do some stretching exercises, I go and have a cold shower, horrible. And then I'd gotten him a better leader or a vegetable juice.

Speaker 2: (14:02)
And it's not life stuff. It's horrible. You know, it's what, it's what I should be having. And that's the way I start my day. And it's a good thing because I'm sitting my day out. But at the beginning it was like, Oh, this is awful. Now my body does it without even thinking. It just goes. Because that is the habit that I've created over many, many months. And so now it's actually quite normal for me to do it. And it's actually a, I can seal it when I, when I travel and I don't have my blender or whatever with me and I can't do my routine. It's like, Ooh, don't feel like right. Usually because I haven't had that routine to follow. So it gets easier as we do these things. And so just get through those first couple of weeks and then already really it will be easier.

Speaker 2: (14:46)
And when you get to 60 days, it'll be a piece of cake, you know? But so the Brian moved type their path of least resistance once you've set that up. So another little trick that I use Neil, and I've done it if you use this one, is if I'm don't feel like training for example, own like, you know, feeling what and I don't really want to and I'm unmotivated and I know that I've got a race coming up or I've got something that I want to achieve. A little trick that I use to get myself going is that I count backwards from five, four, three, two, one. And when, you know, every movie in the world has got that, you know, with, we're going to lift off in 10 seconds, 10, nine, eight, seven, six, even if you just do it from five to one, it creates this impulse of action because you've heard that so many times and you, you, you know, they don't.

Speaker 2: (15:38)
Zero, you're going to take off. So, and there's a whole book written on this about just counting down from five to zero. And by the time you get to zero, you'll just go and do without ruminating, without thinking and overthinking. Do I feel like training today? Do I not feel you need a bloody feel like I can tell you when you've had a hard day at work and you know things have gone wrong, you'd just rather go home and I put a bottle of wine. We all feel like that, but if you can go and put your gym clothes on or your running clothes on, I have a bargain with myself. I'm just going to get changed and then I'll say and once I put my clothes on, usually I'm like, cool, I feel more athletic already and I've actually done this thing and I'll, well I'm here now.

Speaker 2: (16:22)
I might as well just do a little warmup and see how I feel and then I start warming up and then all of a sudden my body starts to kick into gear. My body warms up, it gets ready for action and then we're off. We're off to the races, but I hate to overcome myself each and every bloody time actually people is, it's not just like, you know, Oh are you one of those motivated athletes who loves to give them the gym everyday? No, there are very many days when I do not feel like going for a run when I do not feel like going to the gym. But that's a little trick that I use to get my app

Speaker 3: (16:56)
The road. Exactly. We've been, you know, you said at the start at least it's having that fork in the road and setting yourself up, giving yourself signs valid. I like to put signs that direct me in to that, to the, the right fork in the road. So last night, it's good example. We've we've had a few nights this week. We've had friends around for barbecues and things like that. This morning is, I definitely getting up and going for a run. So I put my spiky ball. I used to roll my feet before a run. I'll stick that on the wood on the workbench before I went to bed last night, made sure I knew where shorts, t-shirt, have fines were for my, my phone's heart goes to my music when I'm running. All those things are out shoes by the front door. So when I got up this morning and walked into the kitchen, all those, they're the signs for me. Right? Not rolling your feet, trying to the, it was, there was no reason because the easy thing to do, if those things weren't there, then all of a sudden I'm off down

Speaker 2: (17:50)
The, the other path, and this is what I want everyone listening to understand is the people will look at often look at you and me and other people like this guy and they just get up and do it. It's easy. It's, it's not, it's not. But what we've got better at doing is, is really getting our minds and in the position to make the right decision. And that some of the time you need to, you need to do things like you've described things that I've described where you put your sign up, they put them up, you make it easy. And then you have your your accountability partners in place as well. The people that are going to ask you like in the day, how was your run? The minute I came down to the, to the gym this morning to jump on the podcast with you as I walked in, it was couple of memes I'd already told and couple of the team who had already told I was going running.

Speaker 2: (18:34)
First thing else was how did you run feel so much better explained to them how great the run was rather than saying, Oh yeah, so that and that, that's where you start to get the, the feeling success as well and that's the bit you is never no way that I want to walk in this morning and go that didn't do it. So when I saw the people I knew I was going to see, right, they were my accountability partners who are even realizing they were going to be my accountability partner. It says if they pay pressure that they are good prefers. Yeah. And we are all part of a, you know, they talk about the herd mentality and I like to call it like a Wolf pack. Really. You know, you're like, you, you're part of a pack and a when, when someone just exudes a little bit of pressure on you or makes you accountable, it's gonna make you go, you know, it's gonna make you go a whole lot more.

Speaker 2: (19:21)
Another example, my husband Heisley, he, he's had a hell of a week. The Farber gave some mess of big fires, you know, lots of overtime, three days, three nights. I haven't seen him in, in a week and tonight on his schedule was a 35 K run because he's preparing for the unity ultra, which we've got coming up in March, which is 84 Ks and you know, I all signed to him last night when if you have another really bad shift night then you know, you might want to shift that. And luckily last night wasn't too bad but he had everything prepared. You know, he had all his gear out, he had the foods that he needed, he hit the water all prepared. He had his literal lights all done. He had prepared his mind all day yesterday for the beta lets coming today. And he just came in the house before to get some headphones and then he ran back out again and carried on his way.

Speaker 2: (20:09)
And he's on a mission and he's happy because he's, he's actually doing the thing that he set out to do and he prepared himself for it, even though he's had a hell week. And I've said to him after this, you need a bloody good break and you need to sit and watch YouTube for a while, you know? And then it's okay. And it's understanding that as well that you need that downtime. But that's a classic example of somebody who's prepared themselves and his prepaid, the mind for the battle is to come and he's out there doing it right now. So, you know, and that makes me proud of him and in what he's doing. So home, like we have got the unity ultra coming up. I just wanted to mention that while we're talking about it. So I, I'm invested at for the unity ultra, which is a a 51 mile or 83 K's, I think it is down in Christchurch in March of 2020, if anyone is interested in doing this.

Speaker 2: (21:01)
This has been done is a to commemorate the victims of the Moscow techs. And Christchurch, one of the organizers lost his auntie in this horrific event and was moved to as a run out wanting to do something and Koran golfs. And he asked his friend who's a rice organizer and who does a lot of charity events to come and help organize this event. And they're actually over in Bali at the moment, running another event. But this one is going to take place on the 20th of March 20, pretty 20th to 22nd of March. And so it's one day of running, but it's a whole three day of beans around, you know, sinking in, in, in showing solidarity to the people that were affected by this horrific event and honoring the 51 people who died in, they'll see lives. And we're also going to be raising money for the red cross to help refugees who are being set up in New Zealand and needing some help and support around and the, you know, establishing themselves in New Zealand.

Speaker 2: (22:03)
So a great cause, a great reason to be doing it. So if anyone is wanting to find out more about that, you can go to the unity oprah.com. And, or reach out to us and we can tell you more. So that was just an a little bit of an aside. But going back to the goal setting into this year, like we're coming up to the end of the year, we've got the new year's resolutions coming in. 90% of people who sit new year's resolutions, I don't know what the actual statistic is, but it's pretty horrific. Do not follow through with it. So I don't be one of those statistics this year. Be one of the ones that's, it's some really good, well thought out goals. Start to understand your why behind these goals and then start to understand what it's going to take to get there, break it down into small bite sized pieces and then start developing the habits that will get you there and understand that you are going to fall off the bandwagon. I knew you're not going to be perfect,

Speaker 3: (23:01)
So if you need help then there's a whole process, quite detailed process we take off on through understanding their goals, their purpose, their why, what their purpose in life, what they're doing is, is as we've talked about many times before laces when you achieve your goals, there's a lot of other factors that come into it and that's what we can help you with. If you want to, we can take you through a goal setting session, a purpose session at the start of the year and then tie that back to what you're doing, the chances of you been successful in achieving it. If you've got support around you, if you've got coaching around you. We use, we use coaches ourselves. We use mental, mental ourselves for that reason because we know we're going to be a much higher chance of being successful and achieving our goals if we've got support around us. So we create that around us with own mentors and our own coaches and we can help you guys and go through it as well. So if you need help with it, reach out. Where's the best place to contact this list?

Speaker 2: (23:54)
I'm Lisa tammany.com [inaudible] website. And you can contact us via that. You can see all our programs. We have our epigenetics program, which is what Neil was talking about there. So we go through this process, but we go through this with the lens of looking at your particular set of genes. A very an incredible program that we've talked about a couple of times and we are actually going to get onto doing some sessions on the genetics program that we have in the next few weeks. We've been saying it for a couple of weeks and the idea would be to get onto it, but it's actually a really amazing program that will give you insights into your genes, what they're doing, how they're expressing and what recommendations and trying to understand who the heck you are. This is the biggest power in this is not just the food lists and having lists of foods that you're going to, that, that are going to be good for your body and in times of the day that you should be exercising and what types of exercise. But it's also about how your mind works in relation to your genes and how you were, how you were made. You know, it goes right back through embryology when you, and your mom's tummy, how you developed, what we, what energy went into the different systems. And I won't go into it now because it's very, very detailed and scientific and we need our you know, probably five or six podcasts to get through it all. But we have a huge result. So this and we're just,

Speaker 3: (25:20)
I'm really my skill set in and finding your purpose easier. Cause once you know who you are, how goal setting process and, and the purpose process becomes so much easier because you've got the tools to really, really, really help you choose the right fork in the road.

Speaker 2: (25:35)
Yeah. And understand how you operate. You personally, what is it that your dominant hormones are and how is your mind set up for action? You know, and we know you know, Neil and I worked together and we have both crusaders and this is one of the epigenetic types biotypes and we both very, you know, mission driven and very on a mission all the time and in huge goals and things. And we know that other people operate differently. And we can as coaches now talk to them in a different way, motivate them in a different way because they need to hear different things and what we need cause we taught the person, if that makes sense. So we will be going into all that. If you want to chicken out or really you can help onto our website, at least the lisatamati.com Hit the programs button and you'll see our three programs, our online run training program, our epigenetics program, and our mindset Academy, which is all about mental toughness and developing war emotional resilience and mental toughness. So check those all out. Have a great Christmas guys is upon us account believers and if you're listening to this afterwards yeah, I'm sure we would've had great Christmas. Any last words you want to add to before we wrap up the holiday period? Enjoy the Christmas. Have a great new year guys, and enjoy Tom and your family and loved ones. Yeah, sounds like a bloody good idea to me. So you guys, yeah,

Speaker 1: (27:00)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

View Details

In this episode, Lisa Tamati and Exercise Professional, Health and epigenetics coach Neil Wagstaff discuss the latest trends in the fitness industry, the latest shocking stats and how we can reverse them and about the power of power posing, stress management techniques and disease prevention rather than cure.

Shocking Health states & the latest insights from the Fitness Industry Timestamp:

2:52 The latest (and shocking) insights from the fitness industry In new Zealand

7:55 being a role model & brain health

9:20 Stress, stress manifestation, and stress management

13:10 the power of posture - Power poses

16:00 Anger vs Love & Gratitude

22:40 Preparing for healthy holidays

30:15 Working with us, And epigenetics

We would like to thank our sponsors:

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Hi everybody. This is how many here at the limits and this week I have my favorite person, Neil Wagstaff on the podcast who's been on here so many times. I can't count any walls cause he's my offsider at by running hot coaching our company. So welcome to the show Neil. Thanks Lis nice work as always hoping to find a person. That's cool. Besides my husband of course now Neil has just been up at the fitness awards, which, and New Zealand a fitness industry awards and it is also a three day conference alongside this and he has just come back with a Monaco award. So I want to congratulate my mate own winning the Monaco reward. Now this is for excellence and leadership and work ethic and there's something that has peers have nominated him for because he is a really major player in the fitness industry and fully deserves this award. So congratulations mate. Well done. Thank you. Right, thank you. He'd grown a little bit now. Now well done, Mate, the Monaco award at the FedEx, that's a really top notch thing to meet, to receive in the fitness industry. So we're really, really proud and I'm not surprised to be honest. I mean, you just absolutely mentioned this, you know so congratulations on that.

Speaker 3: (01:37)
The cool thing about the neighborhood as well, Lisa's and it's very touching to get it very, very cool, but it mentions the people around you. So it's really a great reminder to me that I can't be what they are. We can't do what we do without the people around us. So having, having good people around us makes a massive, massive difference. So, you know, for me it's not just about what I'm doing, it's about what we're doing and, and really thankful to the people that that we've got around us and I've got around me. So it's very, very cool.

Speaker 2: (02:07)
Yeah. And that just really shows how humble you truly are because a lot of it is down to you, but use your team is important. Last week I had on the show, dr Rob bell and he has a book called no one does it alone and that will no one gets there alone. And it's definitely true for this case as well. And we're always a team effort usually for everything. Even the races that I used to do, I used to think, crikey, here's me getting the middle. But without my proof I wouldn't be standing there, which could be meetings for the crew as well.

Speaker 3: (02:40)
It's about team. And it's anyone who says that they're on their own is often raise an eyebrow cause cause they've always,

Speaker 2: (02:46)
Yeah, PayPal of part. We're not so self-made. Right. So what we're going to, again, my aim on this podcast guys, we wanted to talk stuff that new sorn for the FedEx awards and Oh, conference, sorry. Because this is like a cutting edge of the latest and the fitness industry and he learned a whole lot of great things and we always like to stay up on the latest in science and the latest developments. So Neil, take us through what you learned on this incredible. A few days up more often.

Speaker 3: (03:23)
So the, we had a great real good keynote at the start of the weekend, which was where everyone comes together and goes to that. And the the, the chief executive, the heads up excised New Zealand. He gave me some guidelines which nearly had me falling off my chair on you. We were, we weren't where we needed to be from activity point and newsfeed. And it's when I heard the stats and the and looks at the numbers, it was quite shocking and often the, I found myself in a little bubble with the people I worked with. Cause we're all very active where we're at the gym we're at with our business, we're surrounded by people right to, for across New Zealand the world health organization guidelines. We are the 13th worst in the world for an activity 13th world worst in the world for our kids. 90% of our children don't meet the daily guidelines of 60 minutes of activities a day.

Speaker 3: (04:13)
That's 90% of our children meeting the the activity guidelines of 60 minutes a day, which isn't a huge amount of time of physical activity. Our adults are just about 50% of meeting the guidelines of 30 minutes a day. That's, that's half our population who aren't meeting the activity guidelines and 30 minutes a day, which again isn't a huge amount of huge amount of time as well. And for obesity we're sitting at number three, number three in the home and the whole world. So well that what that after I fell off my chair, pick myself up and brush myself down, it really sort of hit home to me in a message I wanted to send from from this podcast today and for our listeners is, is share what you are doing. I know a lot of our listeners will be out to if they will be moving, but you will be an inspiration to those around you.

Speaker 3: (05:01)
You are in a position to teach and educate those around you. You are in a position and more importantly to teach and educate our children please, especially over the upcoming holding holiday period. Take the time to, to be that role model. Take the time to, to, to get active with the family, get out with the family that worry if you ended up in the next few weeks. If you're not hitting your runs. Exactly. Don't panic. But do make the time to get out with your family and get walking on the beach. Get walking on in the, in the local parks, walking on the local trails and get the family moving and just let everyone around, you know, handful and that is and let everyone around. You know what, what is going on in our, our community and our country because we need to get moving. We need to move or regularly we need to really address our health or a obesity epidemic and we need to do something about this quickly so that we're in a position to, to reverse that because there's a lot of choice, right? So it's out there, there's a lot of options, but they are clearly not hitting them up. They are not meeting the market school. So pretty that role model for that person.

Speaker 2: (06:03)
This is going to have massive consequences for our health system, diabetes and all the obesity diseases, any of escalators. There's always things that a knock on effect if that chosen one and not, you know, we used to, we used to have such active childhoods. I mean I had a wonderful childhood running around all day, every day. And that's not the case now. And those kids aren't learning those habits and those routines and it's going to be a disaster for the health. You know, the medical system and New Zealand and I mean this is not just New Zealand, this is happening obviously across the board. We all know

Speaker 3: (06:40)
Worldwide. It's a worldwide problem. There are, there are stats, but every, every country is facing similar things. And I mean, just look at how much on you and your family is spending on screens over the holiday period. Look at how much time you do in general. If you're trying to get something done at the and, and your family are on screens where you're trying to get something done, it's plans and so on. Take some time out where you are actually moving. It doesn't need to be high intensity, but get yourself and the family out, move in and just ask yourself, look at those stats. Are you one of the 50% that is meeting the guidelines or are you one of the 50% that is missing them? So if, if that's the case and with your children, you know, you want to, we want to really reduce that 90% so that children each day and really so much gets my blood pressure up. But this does because that there's responsibility from our schools as well as the responsibility from our schools to take this on board as well. And look at how much movement the the children are doing each day as well.

Speaker 2: (07:37)
Yeah. And as you've got three little kids who are extremely act the one, know how much you put into their activity and to keeping them on point. And you know, I come around to your place and you've got the kids ability with that doing their own thing. I mean, I was always surprised to come, come around and it's three and four year olds doing like little bell swings and stuff and sign little, okay. And what did he do? Like a 12K last year and he got beaten by us big sister this year I'm like, I'm running what, 15 Kai up the mountain or something,uin signing for little kids. Uit doesn't have to be that level guys, but,uyou know, you are a role model for your children and I will [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (08:20)
What you do and watch what you do and be there. And then the other thing I just wanted to add in this world, and you, you know better than anyone leads the importance of brain health. So the connection with activity and brain health is, is phenomenal. So this isn't just about movement. This is about development of, of of the brain as well. And from an education point of view and a learning point of view and an experience point of view. And as we're, you know, we're using more and more Lisa from RF genetics point of view, the rec geneticists program, the importance of mind with that and the connection of how we will develop our mind and use on mind is, is key. So this is a huge, a huge topic and something we're both very passionate about. But there's simple message out there is please, please, please think about what movement you're doing each day. Cause it's, it's not just about activity, it's not just about why it is about, it's about learning resilience, it's about the development of of the brain and mind. And it's about, you know, Atlanta children's become

Speaker 2: (09:16)
Good, good, healthy peoples who grew up as well. Absolutely. And that sort of goes into our next topic, which was around the stress and emotional the effects of stress on the body. Because this is another thing that it ties in very much. You hit another good, great point. Speech up there.

Speaker 3: (09:33)
One of 'em, one of, one of my mentors who's, he's taught me a lot over the past few, few, few years, Angela Lee and she, she was delivering a session called issues in the tissues. So your tissue, basically the message is coming out of it. Your tissue as in your your muscles. Yeah, all my, all the connected tissue. Of course, your body will carry a lot of your emotion. So it's the structure of our body. You can have injuries and niggles that are caused not by necessarily by postural problems that are not caused by a lack of flexibility but actually caused by emotion. It's a simple comparison. There's a lot of lists. There's, I'm sure when we experience, when they get tired or stressed, they're anxious, they feel tension around their neck and shoulders. But that can manifest itself all over the body. So a couple of good examples and we've done some release work with some of our clients, one on one and some of the members here at the gym as well.

Speaker 3: (10:26)
I've had people who've actually released them, really some some of their body that burst things tears because that, that part of their body has been carrying, carrying the emotion. So something to be very aware of as well. If your body is tight, if it's restricted, it's feeling uncomfortable. And for those of you that are runners that are listening, it might might be the distraction just doesn't work. And you've got to address the emotion with the, with the good movement and the stretching and relaxation work. So release the, release the emotion. All of a sudden you'd be moving, moving a whole lot better in response to stress in our body. And this was a great point I took away. We've talked a lot, Lisa, about the flight or fight response. Okay. What angel did very well and just reminded me of as well, there's also a freeze, a freeze response.

Speaker 3: (11:10)
Now the freeze response is what a lot of us are doing in this day and age. We're no longer fighting, staying and addressing an issue and therefore we're getting, we're allowed, we're able to release all those stress womans. We're not flighting and running away and releasing all the stress hormones that we've built up in our body. We're actually freezing and submitting to it. Yeah. We're freezing in place, submitting to the stress, the stress response we've been given. And if that can't be released by fighting or fighting or the sudden that's just loaded into our, into our body and into our tissue, which then results in, in a pretty pretty tight body.

Speaker 2: (11:47)
Does that mean that when the boss yells at you at work next time you should fight back, keep yourself healthy or should you run away?

Speaker 3: (11:59)
Is it needs to be released so it has arrows released that a, again, to lay one on your boss probably isn't the best of it.

Speaker 2: (12:05)
Well, I don't go and punch a box. We're not saying that, but leave it out somehow. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (12:09)
Let us somehow, and if that comes out in a constructive discussion with your boss, then then great. Or if it comes out with a discussion with your partner at the end of the day or a loved one, then the imperfect, if it comes out through some exercise activity, then great. The key message here is it needs to be coming out because if it's not, and this can be, you know, we've, I've looked at a lot of the research on it and then there's the stuff that some people will be carrying from childhood and teenage years that is now causing and continuously built up kind of structural. Our body is a great representation of the emotional stress we've been through over the prayers previous years and managing that and releasing it is is key. She led in very nicely from there just talking about the importance as well of this in mind and have a control on motions throughout that they and how we feel about ourselves is the importance of power posts this which I know you understand really well and you use a lot of them.

Speaker 2: (13:02)
Yeah, definitely. The Bay sadness

Speaker 3: (13:04)
And I and a hundred position is you can leave this feeling by the end of the day, pretty, pretty uncomfortable depression all about ourselves. So changing that body position can have a massive physiological and hormonal benefit as well, which, which really changes how we feel. So what did you talk through some of the things you'd do?

Speaker 2: (13:21)
Yeah, I'll just give me a bit of an example of what the hell we're talking about with power posing. So just one example that I use on a regular basis. You know, do a lot of speaking on, on stages and sometimes big scary stages. And you know, when I start to feel the nerves and you know, I've been doing it for 13 years and I still feel nerves every time. I go somewhere quiet, even if it's in the, in the toilets or somewhere. And I do some power posing, which might sound a bit weird. I go around, you know, beating my chest and I, you know, Rocky top of the Philadelphia stairs there and saying, and standing in a really strong position in being what they call power posing releases to saw thrown into my body and makes me feel more courageous and stronger.

Speaker 2: (14:06)
It's an actual physical thing. And I've talked about this before, like from sample, what the all blacks do, you know, to do the hacker before they go into the game. And that was done traditionally because they pumped up the, the, the main going into battle back in the day. And the Maori you know, back in the war days without tribal people, they would do the happiness to psych themselves up. And that's psyching themselves up as really releasing the hormones so you don't have to second to that level. But by doing a little bit of power pose in straightening up and even like putting a smile on your face when you don't feel like it, it actually causes a change in the difference in your hormone hormones that are being released into the body. And that will change how you feel. You know, that's a little bit of a fake it till you make it, you know, you put a smile on your face in, in, and after a couple of minutes you start to feel action.

Speaker 2: (14:58)
You'd better you stay in that Strider and you feel stronger. You hunched over all day. I was used to that at the chiropractor with my mom, which one? I'm getting his spine straightened out and I said, you know, I'm really struggling to get her to stand up straight. And you know, probably he'd bet cause with the Brian [inaudible] because when you have a, an injury of a snatcher, your body's response is to go into that fetal position is to hunker down and taped your, your heart and chest, your areas that are, that are vulnerable. So the Xena becomes a chronic situation, which you said you hunched over like this. So now I have to try and remind him of either to hold herself up nice and straight. And that's another example of the body's actually doing it to protect yourself and then instance, but it's no, no longer work with thing in the chronic state. So you will, posture has a massive influence on how you feel and how you act and the hormones that are running around in your body. So try it out.

Speaker 3: (15:56)
Very, very tricky. You've got to them about the good examples. If you think about anger, if you feel angry, then it's going to increase your heart rates and increase your breathing rate, your blood pressure, it will have your brain doughnut at great speed. You can have higher adrenaline and cortisol levels. Loving comparison. You're gonna release your your good hormones, your oxytocin, your dope mean blood pressure will come down and breathing rate will come down, heart rate will come down. And generally you're gonna, you're gonna feel good, less anxiety, less depression. So practicing love is, this is a very simple way to start feeling, feeling, feeling better about yourself.

Speaker 3: (16:33)
And we are having this discussion earlier on can actually make you and will actually make you put on weight. It will make you, it can make you can make you fatter and where might you fall? Whereas practicing love, you can, you can lose, you can lose weight. And if you think of examples in your life and sometimes the, the time with those of you listening where you fell in love, you would have probably felt, if you think back, it was one of your, one of your healthiest times, you felt great about yourself. You'd have been going for that period with your partner where you're, yeah, you're having fun, you're going to exploring the world together and it's good times. That's important to work on that in life. And it's important to work on that. So important in your relationship, not just for the stability, your relationship with this stability, your help as well. From a physiological point of view, there's cool responses and things going on in your body. You're getting released, serve, as I said, the oxytocin dopamine, which just makes you feel a whole lot better than excessive adrenaline and cortisol that you get with that you get with anger.

Speaker 2: (17:26)
[Inaudible] This, I'm actually Dr. Bruce Lipton, who I've talked about inversely on this podcast. He has a book called honeymoon effect, which is all about that. They in love sealing and had, had a sustain it and love feeling an all the both sides of that. And I had wait, wait, before the last block, the poor Lawson on the show the scientists or who's an expert in it and he was wearing a constant glucose monitor to see what his sugar levels were doing throughout the day. And he had a bad email comes through from his accountant. You know, how your anxiety level goes up when you get an email from your accountant. And it caused an angry response in him because this something in NEMA and he watched on his glucose monitor, his his blood sugar levels go through the roof even though he'd been fasting for 18 hours at this time as he did intermittent fasting.

Speaker 2: (18:21)
So in other words, his blood sugar went up without any food going into his mouth, just from the reaction from his anger. Okay. So that's how powerful this is. So when people say to you, stress is a killer, we see it very gladly and very like, Oh, you all got stressed and stuff. It is eye color. And it will cause you to put on weight and it will cause you to be more unhealthy and have problems. So if your blood sugar levels are going up and you've got problems with diabetes or prediabetes or have some insulin resistance going on, then is going to damage your body. Another reason to go for a run very quickly and get out and, and releasing that. But it's, it's that powerful. You have an angry response to someone in the traffic. You are not hurting the dude that you're giving the finger.

Speaker 2: (19:12)
So you're hurting yourself by having this emotional reaction. And when you understand that, you start to think about getting angry all the time because then you start to realize, wait, actually I'm not, I'm not doing any damage to anyone else. I'm doing damage to my own cells token when we have gratitude in their heart. And we, there's a great book by the HeartMates Institute which is all about developing this, this, this muscle of gratitude and in, in tuning in with the heart. And when you do this, it all sounds very airy theory, but it's absolutely based in science. When you have a feeling of gratitude, when you, if you're having a really bad vibe of what I do as I imagine I'm stroking my cat who I love Dealy and when I cuddle my cat it calms me down. So we know I'm having a response. I'll often think about my cat as stupid as that sounds, but that calms me down a little bit. Okay. Or it might be cuddling your baby or whatever it is for you or giving mom a hug or all these things that would actually help you feel more gratitude than you would like. Thankful for that personal, thankful for that, that little weight or whatever you have. And that changes your, your, your psychology and your actual biology immediately

Speaker 3: (20:31)
As well. The grass tutors practicing that on a daily basis. And there's some other good things I've just been writing down journaling or just talking with your family about three things that have happened that day that are good. It really does change your physiology and your body connection is key as well, so connecting with people you want to spend time with. That can be husband, wife, family, friends, have a look. Often there's people, especially at the stage of life, a lot of our listeners will be in having that connection with people that they want to because of other commitments with life, family, work. Take the time, especially in the holiday period, coming up to connect those people again and just see how different it makes you feel. That is the really is it's not just the, again as you say, an airy fairy thing is a very cool physiological response going on.

Speaker 3: (21:17)
Hormonal responses. You do that and bring as much fun and laughter and as you can often makes you feel real. I feel a whole lot better. Having fun in life is when it's there your, and again you look back into memory some times you remember you, you remember because of the amount of fun and laughter in those in those times, but you want more health, you want more control of the physiology, then bring these, bring these things in. Interesting as well Lisa. We've got about 80% advantage it sorts and in quite a lot data about this. 80% of our serotonin is is found and developed technical gap. So again, some another looking at as another one of our happy hormones. It's looking after your gut health is key. So the connection between gut health and one of our other, our other good buddies, Ben Moore and talked a lot about this as well is a connection between depression, anxiety and gut health.

Speaker 3: (22:05)
And general mood is, is huge and this is the reason if you've got issues with your gut, leaky gut or the food you're putting into your body is not as good as it could be. Then we're looking for stuff to make us feel better the whole time we're fueling ourselves with staff. There's going to flare up our gut and cause inflammation. Easy winds. And especially something to be conscious of coming into the holiday period is what we're putting in because it's a time we should be happy, should be fun, should be hanging out with your friends and families haven't lost. So put some quality stuff into you and you got, rather than stuff that's going to flare up, because that's going to affect the serotonin production, which then means from a happiness point of view that starts, that starts, starts dropping, dropping down.

Speaker 2: (22:42)
Yup. And I'll say on that point, you know, being that we're coming into the solace season and we're coming into Thompson, we're going to be having lots of fag family get togethers hopefully and, and lots of good food and alcohol and, and all that sort of stuff. And it's a hard time to be disciplined. And you know, a little bit of leeway and a bit of fun is it's cold. But if we go in a little more competed mean to Lee for those situations. If we think about, you know, on Christmas day and all the food that's going to be available, and what am I going to do on that day? So that you're not like hijacked by a surprise at all. Oh my God, they have Loma that I've been dreaming about for ages is sitting on the table. And it's not to say you can't have any, you know, like it's never a, you know, we all have treats now and again as well.

Speaker 2: (23:32)
The thing is to be prepared mean to me because when you make yourself aware of what's going to come, then you can arm yourself for bagel. It's like preparing for a race. And I talk about visualization a lot appearing for that battle coming. And this is in a way a willpower battle. And if you're prepared for it to more likely to have maybe a little bit of traits but not too much traits so that you feel sick afterwards, you know, and we all have that, you know Christmas afternoon, like, Oh, what did I eat that for? Remorse, you know? So if you go into it, being aware of it and then practicing this, you'll be easier. W our brains are just like muscles. When you start a new habit, when you start a new behavior, it's very, very hard at the beginning because you creating a new neural pathway.

Speaker 2: (24:24)
But once you've done it fits B 60 times, it's just old hat in the brain is very much about conserving energy. And so it does want it the path of least resistance. And that means it does what it's used to doing. So you'll find after getting up every morning and having a routine, like a a morning routine and the right foods and you do it day in and day out and the first few weeks it's terribly hard. There's a whole lot of willpower involved that is dice like white becomes more retained and then it becomes easier and easier and easier to say no to the bad stuff because your brain is actually used to it. And it just follows that same path. It doesn't think a lot of time. It just does. And this is the danger things when you program in your body negative things or you program and all sorts of things it will ever work.

Speaker 2: (25:14)
And one other point on that the emotions that you attach to things, it's also a very important point. So I like, for example, if I, if I go for a run and my whole thought process in the half an hour before the random as I'm going out the door is I hate running. I don't want around, but I have to run. I have to go because it's all my program and I've got to do it. This is, Oh, I'm so lucky that I can run and I can't wait to get out the door and have some time to myself and to be able to breathe in the fresh year and sick the whole lives. People who can't do this and how lucky I am. Do you see the difference in that mentality? And that's in has a massive influence on how you will perceive your future training sessions.

Speaker 2: (25:58)
When you program negativity with your exercise or with your food, it becomes an automated response. So the next time you go for a run, before you've even sought about whether you want to or not, your Brian's going, ah, hat's the run. I don't want to do this. That's already got that preprogrammed emotion with that activity. So it's really, really important to program, even if you're faking it. Once again, I love running. I'm feeling positive about running. This is a privilege for me to do. And when you go out with that attitude, it will program your brain in that way. Then an associates exercise with fun in Asia and not exercise with, I have to, and I hate this and that will in the same goes with your food and say if you put food into your mouth, it's not optimal, but you are actually believing this is really good for my body. It will be better for your body than if you actually put good food in your mouth. But go, I'm hating this. This is awful because you were associating and neither before the hormones and everything else is still affected by it. So in other words, your mental game is as important as the food you're putting in is as important as the exercise you're actually throwing.

Speaker 3: (27:15)
Just the stuff on the mind and Brian leads is just easy wins as well as hydration. We talk about this loads and I continue to talk about it because it's just such an easy win. I still see so many people that, that aren't looking after their hydration. They're looking for something else to fix. But your brain needs water, your brain needs water. It needs hydration. Well thinking, well I'm feeling positive and being able to just really reinforce everything you've just talked about there. Then keep on top of your hydration, especially over the next, the next few weeks in the holiday period, think about your water. Think about what's going in. I dry the brain. The brain will feel a whole lot better. Therefore your mood will be a whole lot better simply because you're getting some good quality hydration to the brain tissue,

Speaker 2: (27:56)
Especially when these times where you know, alcohol is going to be a part of a lot of parties with people and it's also so hot and we're changing the seasons. We're going to need more water and keeping on the older people in your family because older people tend not to have the same system. Fix, hit make so they don't feel the need for the water because the Seuss doesn't work as well, but they actually need it. And then they go on Austin, have a cup of tea and think that they're hydrating. Whereas tea, coffee, alcohol are all do relaxation, take water away from your body. And I, my dad is a real bad one for this. How had a cup of tea, you know, I don't need to have some more water. Oh, I had a bit of a drink out of the hose models gardening all day.

Speaker 2: (28:37)
And it's like old dead. You know, you've been out 15 hours in the bloody sun cause he still doesn't see you're dividing and he hasn't had anything to drink. You know, and then he's wondering why his brain's not working. That's why, you know, it's not the nature. It's Stripe not having enough water. And in fact, a lot of the people that are admitted to hospital woods, dementia, older people actually come right when they put on a drug. So strike up demodulation. So if you're older, loved ones are not drinking what they should enough water just give them a chain to Rwanda. Coffees and teas. Very true

Speaker 3: (29:15)
Enough police. I'm up at the conference too to share what we do. So we were lucky enough to have the three talks while I was up there. It's the other coaches and trainers around the country. One I'm running skills and drills one a, a business one about how we've structured and set up our online training. And I'm also one on the runners warm up the importance of that and some good things that we use in our warmups both online and, and in our one on one and our big seminars we do as well. So it's really cool to be able to share that. And it was really, again, very humbling and very cool to see how much the 10 days participants were taken away from it. So it's just to remind everyone as well that we're, and it reminded me as well that some of the stuff we're doing is, is quite different. Is, is from our perspective and our client's perspective is a cutting edge and it's, it's, it's getting good results. So if you're interested in finding out more about it where, so people, people go to the website and get to least times you.com and find out some more about it and has the best ways to connect with dealers.

Speaker 2: (30:18)
Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. I'm all over Instagram and Facebook at lisatamati on both of those. And he, he don't over to our website, at lisatamati.com Under the programs button you'll find epigenetics programs. We have running coaching our online run training system which we have over 700 employees. I think now we're wide on this program. It's a holistic program. It's based around health as well as just running and we're not high mileage coaches has been said quite a few times on this podcast. We do everything about Tom efficiency and avoiding burnout and injury, which is really, really important, especially is a lot of our people are busy executives and got kids and go crazy Koreans. And as you know, the stress levels can be quite high. So when you are trying to run long but also not blow yourself the pieces and having the right combination of the right structure is really, really important.

Speaker 2: (31:12)
So we're also also health coaches and epigenetics programs. So if the epigenetics testing is one of our major programs and in the coming weeks for going through the, doing some stations on AP genetics this is the most exciting thing since sliced bread. It really is, it's, it's the next level and science. This is a first time in history that we have had access to this information about our own genes and our own body. It's the combination of fisting different sciences who all put in new evidence. There's one on toll, hundreds of scientists around the world of the past 20 years have all worked on this. This is really Nick's label paper with you as ceiling. Like one of those people as I train, I eat right, I do everything right and I'm not getting the results. I can guarantee you it's because the stuff that you are doing is not white for your genes in this program will tell you exactly what to eat, when to eat it, how to eat it, what combinations.

Speaker 2: (32:10)
It'll tell you all about more dominant hormones and youth basically just want to have on your health and tell you so much about your personality. It's not just about food and fitness, it's all about the mind, how your mind works, how your personality works, how you developed in the womb. This stuff is next level. So we're super excited to be using this really cutting-edge toll. If you want to find out about that, if he's sick of not kidding results because the one size fits all fitness and is just not giving it to. Yeah. And we've been honestly frustrated with us for years. We've trained two people in sacrad saying giving the exact same thought and like completely different results. We know that every trainer in the world will tell you that, that and that experience, that client that doesn't get the results because of their genes because they're not doing the right thing.

Speaker 2: (33:01)
So if you want to reach out to us, talk to us about that. That's our epigenetics programs. And then the third program we have is all about mindset and meeting partners. Which we call mindset. Who is our online equal spirit. If you want to take your mind to the next level, Bulletproof yourself was mean too late, then that's the program for you then otherwise you can reach out to me and Neil anytime just by the website. Any last words today, Neil, before we wrap this one up, go and do something that really releases you. Get almost the day, can get someone to cuddle a kiss. I laugh and laugh loud and just consider what you're putting into your body. Yeah, sounds good. So it's wrapping up for this week and we'll see you again next week. Thanks guys.

Speaker 1: (33:53)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends. And head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

View Details

Dr Rob Bell from Indianapolis in this USA is a renown Mental Toughness Coach, Speaker and the Author of 6 and soon to be 7 Books on the subject.

In this interview he shares his top insights from working with elite level athletes across a number of sports and corporate athletes as well. He discusses his approach, his philosophies around developing mental strength to optimize performance and upgrade your life and the tools and perspectives he uses with his athletes.
Dr Bell says: Mental Toughness means performing your best when it matters the most AND dealing with the adversity and setbacks that we will face. If performance is important in your life, then both of these are inevitable, so it isn't a matter of "if", but "when" mental toughness is needed.

The odd thing is that many people don't actually need to be mentally tough in today's society. These people are comfortable on the sidelines. I'm not sure about you, but we just survive in mediocrity, not thrive. Our goal is to be the BEST at getting BETTER."

You can learn more about Dr Bell and his work, his books and courses at www.drrobbell.com. His books include

No One Gets There Alone
Don't Should On Your Kids
No Fear
Mental Toughness Training For Golf
50 Ways to Win
Hinge

Mental Toughness - The Key To Success with Dr Rob Bell Timestamp:

4:20 About Rob

5:32 About the hinge

7:50 hinge moments

11:05 lisa's hinge moment

14:34 Rob's coaching stories

17:45 a new level, a new devil - being excited vs being fearful

24:02 focusing on success vs focusing on segnifficance

28:32 Mental Toughness Hacks

33:28 reprograming our subconscious & choosing our tribe

37:52 Scarcity vs Abundance mindset

We would like to thank our sponsors:

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7-day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalized health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guesswork. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyze body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness, and potential at https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:11)
How everyone listed. Somebody here at pushing the limits today. I have a real treat for you, but before we get underway, I'd just like to encourage you to hop on over to our website and to check out all our flagship programs. We have an online run training Academy running hot. It's called a holistic run training. Whether you are doing your first half marathon marathon or doing ultra marathons or even if you're just taking your first steps, check out our system, what we do and how we can help you achieve your goals. We also have an Eaton genetics testing program. This is absolutely my blind stuff. I've just been away actually on the weekend doing some more training. On this. And this is a personalized health approach. This is taking the last 20 years of hundreds of science work from festing different science disciplines. Bring this all together into one online tool that will enable you to get insights into you and your genes.

Speaker 2: (01:12)
Like [inaudible] before. You'll be able to understand exactly what foods to eat and what time of the day you should be eating, what types of exercise to you, but you're learning so much more than just food and exercise. It's all about how your brain works, what hormones are dominant in your body and what a fixed means will have and what time of the day these are these are happening. You'll get information about what types of work you'll be put at, what times of the day you should be doing different types of activities. Just insights that will absolutely change your life, blow your mind. I'm really, really excited about this genetics program because it's no longer a one size fits all approach, which it has been throughout history up until this point of time. Now we can look at who you are, how your genes are expressing and give new personalized recommendation.

Speaker 2: (02:08)
So that's our second bag ship program. And the third one we have is mindset here, which is all about developing mental toughness, a strong mindset so that you can achieve the things in life that you want to without all the problems getting in the way and stopping new wrench in your potential. So check those all out at Lisatamati.com. Now, today I have Dr Rob bell on the show and he is from Indianapolis in United States and dr Rob is an author, a coach, and a speaker. He's trained hundreds of executives and athletes of all levels and across all sports. He's the author of six books and soon to bring out his seventh and you're going to get so much value out of today's show. So without further ado, I'd like you to introduce you to Dr. Bell and one last thing before I go. Please, please, please give the show a rating and review if you enjoy the content that really helps the show get exposure and really helps our ratings on iTunes, et cetera. So I really, really appreciate you doing that right over to Dr. Bell, everybody, Lisa Tamati here at pushing your limits. Fantastic to have you with me again on the show. We've got a very exciting geese. We've got to the Rob bell all way from Indianapolis in the United States with me today. So welcome to the show that grew up.

Speaker 3: (03:33)
Awesome. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks Lisa for having me.

Speaker 2: (03:37)
So Rob and I have connected by LinkedIn as you do these days. And I have delved into Rob's work and what he's done and he's a meeting toughest coach and an author and a speaker. Someone who speaks my language obviously. And I just loved what he was doing in his work, so I wanted to share that with you guys and my audience and to maybe get some insights from Rob about about me to toughness and he works with a whole lot of different types of athletes and corporate to golf to, to NFL, I think, or you'll be able to share. So, dr. Rob, welcome to the show. And thanks for being here. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3: (04:22)
I mean, well, thanks so much for introduction. And I mean, again, we connect over LinkedIn and I was like, wow, like this, this lady's amazing. Like, look at all the races she's done. So anybody doing like those ultra marathons, like Badwater like yourself and you know, the salve there in the Sahara. I mean, I'm all about, I mean, not just I'm in my, my whole life is just dedicated I think just to helping people get to where they want to go. So it's just being the coach and, and you know, as well as I do, I mean, the, the greatest satisfaction I think we get as a coach is just being that small part. And that piece of, you know, I think what we're always trying to get is just that one moment that, that one point in our lives, and I call him these hinge moments where we don't know what it looks like, but if we can make that small difference in that person's life. So helping them connect with who they are, with who they're going to become. And I always preach and I know you, you're on the same vein, but you know, no matter how bad things aren't, our life only takes more. It takes that one moment, that one person, that one event to make all the difference. And that's why I just love no one. I do. So I mean I've been blessed enough to just always kind of follow that passion and just leave me here, the podcast today. So I'm excited.

Speaker 2: (05:34)
Absolutely. And you actually have, why you have seven bowls, six books in the seventh one on the way. Is that right? Your books is called the hinge. I know. And so this is all about hinge moments in sport does it, right? So what do you do?

Speaker 3: (05:51)
Well, so I say like every door has a hint. So if you hear about doors opening and closing in life, that's of the hinge you hear of a rusty door. It's not the door that's rusty at all. It's the Hinsey gets rusty. And so always say is every, you know, a, a door without a hinge hinges a wall. It just doesn't work. And so what the Hanjin is, the answer is going to be that one person that's gonna be that one moment or one event. Sometimes that one decision that makes all the difference in our lives. We just don't know when that's coming. We can't connect the dots in our life looking forward, but can only connect the dots looking backwards and seeing the impact of that one person or that one moment made in our life. And when it comes to, you know, mental toughness, like I said, it only takes one.

Speaker 3: (06:34)
Now we might not know the hinge connects sometimes two weeks, months, years later. The impact of one person saying you can't do it, you're not going to be good enough. Or one decision or that one person that we, that we met that connected us to somebody else. And since we can't know when that moment's coming, that's the importance of being present and not taking any day off and making sure that every moment that we do and every person that we meet matters. Because it does. Because we don't know when that moment's going to happen. And that's, that's the real point about the hitch.

Speaker 2: (07:10)
That's a real insight. Yeah. I hadn't even thought about this. This just opened up my mind to a new way of thinking. I hadn't thought about that at all as being, I was sort of thinking hinge moments, those, you know, crucial moments. And, and in the sporting event where, you know, either we left or it went right and you succeed, but you're saying the opportunities are going to come towards us, these opportunities, but we don't know or see them necessarily as really important pivotal points. And if we're not paying attention and if we're not out there actively looking for these hinge moments then we're gonna miss them and miss opportunities in our lives basically. Is that right?

Speaker 3: (07:50)
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean a lot of, a lot of these come when we're, when we're not even ready for them, you know, and one of the half iron mans I did, I mean one of the hinge moments was somebody to stop the change my tire for me. And I have no idea even what I was doing in the race, how to change a tire. And that changed my entire life. Just that one moment. And we're going to have several hinge moments throughout our lives. But I think that's the real importance. And, and that's the part that I really think is, is so crucial is no matter how bad our situation is, right. No matter how bleak and outcome looks, no matter what, it only takes one. That's what we're getting.

Speaker 2: (08:29)
Yeah. Actually I, I re listen to that little video on your website about the doctor. Rob was in a, in a halftime, it was one of your early first ones. I believe Tony wasn't signed up with no training at all. And then suddenly your talk gives up and then you standing on the side of the right guy. What do I don't disappoint? People that are riding past you as they doing it. Rice. Yep. Named some nice person. Decided to sacrifice basically their position in the rice to help you out, help you change a tire and get you back on the road. And prior to that, what was your way of thinking before and what was it afterwards?

Speaker 3: (09:13)
Well, I mean I think like people don't think people don't do things to us. They do things for themselves and it's kind of the two by four principle and no matter what, no matter what the kind of situation is, I mean it was, it wasn't like I was a bad person, but when it comes to racing, you do that suit best that you can. I asked myself in the question when this guy stopped and I would tell people about this, what I have stopped and the answer to that point, Lisa was no, I wouldn't have stopped. I wouldn't even have thought about it. But once he stopped, then I started exploring then other professional examples of why would other people stop their own race and what was it about these individuals that they got that I didn't get. And so now every race that I go into isn't focused really on how I do every race is who am I going to be able to help.

Speaker 3: (10:03)
And then it's one of the things I just kind of pray about, put me in a situation Mark and help somebody. And so then the whole viewpoint changes. And the reason why is cause you know, we can't help out others in life without also helping out ourselves. And that's the part that we never get. I mean, if anybody has volunteered before, it's a perfect example. We volunteered. No one leaves volunteers situations helping out kids at a hospital saying, boy, those kids are so lucky that I was here to help them. We say the opposite, right? We say, boy, those kids helped me more than I ever helped them. Yeah. Why is that? Would they give us where they gave us perspective, right? They gave us an appreciation and gratitude for our own problems. I'd gladly take that stuff and we cannot help out others. But that also helping out ourselves. That's the point about getting outside of our own head. If we can just focus on other people, that's how we get outside of our own head and that's how we help ourselves at the same time. So it's, and I think it was like Gandhi or author Ash that said it, you know, one of the most selfish things you can do is to help somebody else.

Speaker 2: (11:05)
Wow. That's real. It's really insightful. And I tell you what, you're getting into Oak marathons now of light and you've got a hundred model. You, you said you were hoping to play next year, a hundred mile are coming up this year. Yep. What I've, one of the things I love about ultramarathons, and this is how it's changing slowly, but it's very much not about the winners. It's, it's, it's different to say iron man's where it's really competitive and crazy. Most people are doing outwards because they have a personal challenge that they're trying to overcome themselves. It's, it's, you know, me versus me sort of situation for most of the people, the top couple of esteem going for the placings. But for most people understand that it's all about survival and getting to the finish line some which way, and the moments that I've, in my school where I've been literally people saved my lives, people have helped me.

Speaker 2: (11:58)
I've helped other people in medical situations where you're in dire straights. I mean, one comes to mind. I was running across Nigeria a 333 K race. I'm terribly organized, one of the most poorest, most dangerous countries on earth. Civil war going on. I got food poisoning an hour into the race, passing out and really deep trouble. And one of the other girls comes past me in the race. You know, I'm alone, unconscious in the same, she gets me, you know, wakes me up, gets me out, warms me up, stays with me, keeps me on my feet, drags my ass until the next checkpoint. You know, it took a good couple of hours that she lost out of that in a, in a race that's, you know, on the edge of crazy. And that, that's sort of a sacrifice for someone that she didn't even know, you know, she'd meet two days before and was just phenomenal, you know?

Speaker 2: (12:54)
And it's those sorts of moments that you think, wow, this is more than just about, did I get to the finish line or not? This is about humanity and this is about, and you know, you, when you, when you go outside of yourself and you, you might be suffering in an ultra somewhere, right? And you're just like, Oh my God, I don't know how I'm going to get there. And then you come across someone who's in worse shape tell you what you like, focus fully on them and you'll forget that you're suffering and they're not an arrow to go buy a new guy. Like, where did my pain go? It's absolutely amazing how when you focus on someone else, your own suffering disappears or diminishes. That's the point. Like when we're stuck in center head, that's when we're behind enemy lines. The only way to get out by an enemy lines is turn your thoughts towards helping somebody else.

Speaker 2: (13:48)
I mean, think about it, right? When we started encouraging others in those races, we're encouraging ourselves at the same time. So church is, so that's the, so if anybody wants to get actually any of your books, where do they go? They just go to www.drrobbell.com or have they always said that's the best way. Yeah, www.drrobbell.com and and the book on so no one gets there, gets there alone is also sort of a story that was the story of the half iron man and the guy's not going to change my tire. Absolutely. Yeah. And nobody does get there alone in life in general. We all need a team of people and we all need to stand on each other's shoulders, so to speak, to, to reach the top. Tell us a little bit about now your, your work with the athletes that you worked with and some examples perhaps of, of amazing experiences that you've had and things that you've seen in your time as a coach. Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 3: (14:53)
Yeah, I was saying, I mean I was, I was blessed enough to know early on in my life, this is what I wanted to do. And I got into the field because I was the athlete that would always think too much and no one can, no one could ever help me out, at least never go in, would always say, Hey, those butterflies go away and playing baseball then everyone away for me. And you know, I had a really, I had a hinge moment when I got to college and that was because I was partying way too much. I thought I can play baseball and party in college and be the best, no accountability, what could go wrong. And I, and I fell off a 80 foot cliff in college and you know, fraction my back broke my arm and that was the end of sport.

Speaker 3: (15:31)
And yeah, that was a hinge most of my life because from that moment on now, everything was different. If that didn't happen, I don't know if I would have taken that psychology class. I don't know if I would've had that one professor who had just spoke right to my soul and I knew I want to do with my life. And you know, always, always be in the ultimate sports honk. And it didn't matter what it was, but if we're trying to do something to the best that we can I just discovered early on that everyone needs a coach.

Speaker 4: (16:06)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (16:06)
There's all these demons that I think get in the way of us trying to reach greatness and what we're doing and really as a coach and, and you know, as well as I do, I mean, it, it does take a team and there are no shortcuts. There are no shortcuts to it. And our job is to point out the blind spots in people's lives. I think there's many ways, many routes up to that mountain. There's not one route. And which is going along the journey with athletes and helping them get to where they want to go as just been absolute blessing. I mean, you know, with any coach, I mean there's two types of coaches, those that have been fired and those that will be fired. I've been fired before, you know, so I've been at the lowest of lows. And then when in in the highest of highs you know, our job as coaches sometimes to work ourselves out of a job that's not, that's not the best business model.

Speaker 3: (17:02)
I don't know. Somebody, I don't know, somebody selling insurance that wants to come in there and be like, boy, I don't really think you need me anymore as insurance sales. So if we're trying to work ourselves out of a job because you know, we're trying to build them up in their capacity, you're gonna get fired. So, I mean, that's, there's just so many examples. I mean, it's just I really just focus on the office that we have and what's the office? So my office is a swimming pool. My offices, you know, is there going to be that golf course sometimes? Is that executive board, but other times, I mean, it's a you know, it's the race track. It's, it's going to be you know, on a, you know, at the tennis match. And then that's, that's the best part. It's just what the office looks like. So you, you, you try and cut Chinese leaps, end

Speaker 2: (17:50)
Corporate executives. So in all types of sports, what are the, some of the biggest things that in general now people are struggling with? Like is there a couple of central themes that people just keep coming back to that you see again and again as being a major

Speaker 3: (18:09)
Problem for people on their bridge? Sure. So I think when whenever we hit a new level, there's going to be a new devil. And so a lot of the difficulties when we get like that success and how do we deal with that if, if I've got to boil it down in what I think like the essential mental skills come. I mean obviously the building block of all mental toughness is, is going to be that motivation, right? It's going to be that persistence is, gets back to our why. You know, your goals, your, how are we willing to do the things that we don't want to do? Yeah. After that, then it comes into confidence and I mean confidence that, that trust, that belief in ourselves. And what we're trying to do. There has to be that belief. I believe that everyone has that, but it just gets really muted throughout our lives.

Speaker 3: (18:59)
A lot of times when we listen and then to that wrong voice, we're not, I think it comes to confidence. What I believe is that we have to adapt the philosophy that it all works out in the end. If it hasn't, then you know what? It's just not the ENT. And that's, that's a big part of what people suffer with. I think another one then it comes back to then focus like how do we build our confidence to what we're focused on? Are we focused on the excitement? Are we focused on being nervous? If we focus on being excited physiologically? I said same exact thing, right? Like we are palms get sweaty. Like we get real anxious, you know, it gets rolling. Our thoughts are a lot, but boy is that nervous or is that excited? Because I think it's excited. It means I want to be in this situation something good can happen.

Speaker 3: (19:45)
Being nervous means I don't want to be in the situation. This is a threat. And then being able to train our mind to focus on everything is an opportunity. That's how we build a confidence in ourselves. And then that, and then I think that last field, so we got the, the motivation, the confidence, the focus. And then I think that last mental skill, which I suck at is how do we let go? Mistakes. If you show me, if you show me an athlete that can let go mistakes, I will show you somebody that's mentally tough. So I like to say this, our confidence focus is how we build our confidence. How we refocus just reveals the level of confidence. Wow. What I mean by that, if you show me an athlete that makes mistakes and still stay school calm and collected, well what they're really saying is I don't need everything to go my way in order to be successful. And we know bad stuff's going to happen, right? But it's all about how we adjust from that. If you show me an athlete that his or her cool when stuff starts going bad, I'm going to show you somebody that never had any confidence to begin with and then they got to play the mental gymnastics and not as well as competing against themselves. That's where it gets really tough.

Speaker 2: (21:00)
See, this is a journey for you as I'm making toughness coach, it's not like it's, it's an easy thing we've got at once and we've, we're away laughing and we're never ever going to have a problem again. That doesn't quite work like that.

Speaker 3: (21:11)
No man, people were, people make more fun of me when I get upset because it's like, wait a minute, I thought you're supposed to be good at this stuff.

Speaker 2: (21:16)
Yeah. You know, I have moments, Tobin, I'm thinking, you know, you just watch your own behavior sometimes and you're going, hang on a minute. This isn't cool and I'm glad I was watching.

Speaker 3: (21:29)
Right. It is. I don't think we were really made to coach ourselves.

Speaker 2: (21:32)
I think we need others to coach us. Very, very good point. It's hard to get out of your own forest and see the trees when you're in the middle of it and someone who has that seed perspective on you can give you a lot of more insight into your behaviors that you're not actually even seeing. And I really love that challenge versus, and I have been in mind, you know, things that I talk about, the challenge versus the threat and changing your cause. It actually changes your physiology when you're standing at the start of a massive race and you start to feel fear and step B, feel nervous and Oh my God, am I trying enough? And all of those things that are going to be absolutely no good to you, they're not. They're not going to help you and your performance then by changing the narrative and your story, like you said, exciting opportunity.

Speaker 2: (22:19)
This is amazing what you know, what a chance to have that releases actual hormones in your body. The more testosterone you get, more bold feeling rather than the nerves. And that can just change your perspective. And it's a subtle change. Sometimes it's not, you know, like a massive thing. But it'd be enough just to get you over the line and get you going. And we all know like that waiting around for rice can be the worst time once you're actually on the way and you're five Kaizen. It's like right, I got this. But those nerves at the beginning can be pretty bloody horrible, can't they? And that's I can imagine with someone like golfers, I don't play golf, but the mental toughness, a completely different type of mental toughness, but the ability when all eyes are on you and on the, you know, one sick and when you hit the ball, they must have some special challenges as its own.

Speaker 3: (23:10)
Yeah. And that's it. Cause there's so much time in between shots, you know, but that's why we need people like you to the poor my life and to coach me up cause I can't push myself.

Speaker 2: (23:19)
Well I had, I loved me to help me get to that a hundred miler that would like, and we can swap some, I need some coaching on, on the mental toughness. How do you do this? How do you bring it across? Be, you know, cause you've obviously been doing this a long time seeming books as let's say in lots and lots of athletes who are Olympic athletes and corporate people and you know, Ben have really had massive success working with you. That's always exciting to connect with and you know, amazing people. And this is, this is one of the selfish reasons I have this podcast. So I get to meet cool people like you. So this is not all selfless. Once again now you see it on your website, there was a quote there that I really resonated with. If you only focus on success, then you'll never reach significance. But if you're living in a life of significance, then success will follow. Yeah. Quote. so if you're focused on Jess winning all the time, just on the money, just on the whatever it is, it's all gold. It's not going to bring you the joy in life. Actual the legacy, if you like. Is that right?

Speaker 3: (24:31)
Well, that's absolutely true. And the, and the reason why is because well let's use Mount Everest as an example, right? I mean the, the year it takes in terms of preparation, the four to 30 to 40 days of actual hiking, they spend what, 10 15 minutes at the top and when did most of the deaths occur on the way down from Mount Evers? And so I mean, if it's all about the journey, it's all about the process and it's all about who we can help along the way. That's how I think that we get real significance in our life. The fact of you know, even those that hold up the trophy, even those that fly back with a gold medal from the Olympics, there are people that had that feeling lease of, boy is that it? Or okay, okay, now what? Now I've spent my whole life for this and I got it.

Speaker 3: (25:25)
What now? And, and, and that's the part, right? The new level, new devil. If we focus on other people and making that impact along the way of our journey them, that's how we just focus on, you know, success is going to happen from us. And that's the part of just being able to focus on that process. And be able to make that impact. Those with elite athletes, I mean there, there has to be selfishness there because of how much time it takes. But at the same time, how can we help others along that journey and, and using our skill and our craft and our God given talent to help others. That's how we get that. That's how we get that significance.

Speaker 2: (26:11)
Yeah. And so it's not just about that gold medal and most people who have, who have a gold medal or something massive success will also understand that it wasn't them alone that got them there. Unless, you know egomaniacs but most of them will understand that this was a team effort. You know, and this was and like you say, we're not all going to be on the gold medalists. We're not all going to be world champions. So it's defining success, insignificance as well. Like the significance for me, like I want to have an, I knew obviously the same, want to have an impact on, on many, many lives and change lives with the knowledge that we have and help people through the journey and help them avoid the problems and the, you know, fast track them to, to success and help them reach their full potential.

Speaker 2: (27:06)
And therein lies the significance more than the couple of finish lines that are, you know, reached or the podiums that I've managed to reach in the middle that's hanging on the wall. That's all great stuff. But at the end of the day, I think you and I at least when we get to the end of our days, want to look back and go, wow, that all right. I helped a lot of people and I made a big impact in the world and I left the legacy. And these are, these are words that I think you know really, really important for us to have in our vocabulary and to be thinking about, it's not just the individual moment, it's not the selfish endeavor. And I mean, as an athlete I was, when I look back over my younger career and stuff, I was selfish to the point of, you know, I didn't understand I was selfish, but I expected everyone else.

Speaker 2: (27:58)
But there were doubts around my mission. You know, I was very mission oriented and very focused and that was the only thing in the world that was important. And I understand now that we added a lot of sacrifice on the behalf of other people, had to sit price for me to get there. And you know, you do lead that single-mindedness to, to achieve those sorts of things. But understanding now it's a bit more older person that you there isn't the only macro of success in the, yeah. So Dr Rob what book are you working on at the moment and what are some of the other sort of mental toughness tricks that you can help people gives people, you know, there are a lot of people suffering out there. There are a lot of people with lacking massive self confidence and self belief. They've been told perhaps their whole lives, they're not good enough, that they're not the right shape and not the right height. They're not the right one either to be good at something. Have you got any words of wisdom for them?

Speaker 3: (29:03)
Sure. I mean the, or the next book that I'm working on, it's called puke and rally. How, how champions adjust. And I know you get this one cause you thrown up and racist too as well. And it's not, yeah, it's not about the puke, it's about the rally and the fact of, you know what? Everyone in our life, everyone has puked. So no matter what, everyone has had setbacks, everyone has had failures. They are inevitable. That is going to happen. The only way to do it is to sit on the sidelines of life. And then you just live a completely different life. You know, if you want to be in the game, there's going to be, there's going to setbacks. And I believe, and if anybody listening that that resonates with this, that it's not about the setback, it's about to come back. Yeah. That's, that's what matters.

Speaker 3: (29:51)
So it's about the rally. It's about how we rally on your point. I believe this is everyone that has reached high levels of success was told you can't do it. That's a dumb idea. Don't try it. Why is that? Cause I haven't come across anybody that's achieved anything that has, you know, you especially with your mom were told by doctors, there's no way that that person's going to come back. And what does it do? Well, it Galvin not yes it has proved people wrong and I'm going to prove them wrong and that motivation, but it also has like in order to do something, you better believe in yourself. And so if we listen, I mean we got to really thank the people that say you can't do it because they're the ones that are given us a diner, are going to galvanize our own spirit, our own soul and our own confidence towards achieving that goal.

Speaker 3: (30:45)
And no matter what it's going to be there. Now I think it's really difficult to like coach that way. You know, you can't coach that way. I mean, but I do it all the time. Sometimes I can in short situations tell my pro golfers, boy, there's no way you get this ball up and down and say par and you know what it does, I'll watch me. Right. I'll show, I'll show you. Yeah. And that's the point is who is it that tells you you can't do it? And then what's the other voice say? What's that true voice? Cause like I said, I believe everybody has that confidence muscle. It's there, you know, it just sometimes getting muted so much in our life. But what is that voice really saying and allow that voice instead to be able to come out. You know, a lot of times what I think is we as individuals, I mean we, we hear that voice that we were as a nine year old kid, you know, from our dads saying, you know, how could you strike out? How could you miss up? And then that's the voice that we got in her head. Well, if that's the voice in our head, then what's the real voice that want? And that's, that's the key is just allowing that real voice then and be able to come out and, and sometimes, you know, we've gotta be able to tell ourselves and yell at ourselves rather than just listen to it.

Speaker 2: (31:57)
Yeah. And, and, and this is, and we've all had those naysayers in their life. And I know in my life I wouldn't have got there inanely of the things I did if I didn't have those people. And if I wasn't trying to prove something, and some people might say that that's a negative motivation, but I actually think that this is a really powerful tool that we can use to really fire the furnaces, to push through those hard times, those obstacles, those times when you want to give up and you think about those people who said you couldn't do it, and you're like, nah, I want to keep going, even though it's painful. When I want to quit, I'm gonna keep on going. And I think that that's a really powerful, and what you see at about the nine year old child, we all have this inner child.

Speaker 2: (32:41)
I believe this, this kid who took on staff without sautering it, which has landed in our subconscious and then become a part of our thinking mechanisms. You know, when we were paid ugly, told as kids, and often these were teachers, appearance or whatever, we're just having a bad day, you know? But they were telling you things and that they weren't perfect. But when you hear this repeatedly becomes a part of your subconscious programming, and when that becomes the, the voice that sees you useless at sport, you were too dumb to go to university. You're to this, whatever that was that was programmed into your brain. And as an adult, you've got a heck of a job to override that in a subconscious thinking. Is there some ways that you've found to get around that, that programming that we had as kids when

Speaker 3: (33:36)
Just

Speaker 2: (33:37)
Put into our subconscious without us even thinking about it?

Speaker 3: (33:40)
Yeah. The best thing we can do is tell ourselves rather than listen to ourselves. You know what I mean by that is you got to tell yourself what it is that you're going to do here. When you tell yourself then commit to it. When you commit to it, it gets done too often. If we listened to it, then we hear that, well, that voice in the back of my head, you've got to tell that voice sometimes where to go and that it doesn't have a vote in this kind of situation here by confidence. Yeah. Confidence in doubt. Like they live in the same house, but it's confidence. His house now it is a squatter, like it just lives there. Rent free. Well, if there's somebody that overstays their welcome, I'm going to, I'm going to tell them where to go. Right. At least I'm gonna say like, look, it's been a little bit too long. Why don't you just hit the road? But we think you know that doubt that that has a right to live there. And that's the part is tell yourself what you're going to do. Don't listen to yourself.

Speaker 2: (34:31)
Yeah. And program the stuff that you want in there. So then whether that's through affirmations and outfit gnosis and being around people who are positive, giving the support, the coaching, the mentors, the tribe of people that tell you you can or these things will happen slowly.

Speaker 3: (34:51)
We assist who you are and what you're capable of.

Speaker 2: (34:56)
That brings me to the point, you know, the five you have it on your website too. The five people that you hang around with the most. I think it was something, something around there. And so w who you will become. And I think this is also a very important point that we need to bring up.

Speaker 3: (35:13)
Well, I mean, we, we are, we're a, you show me your friends. I'll show you your future. So true. I mean, if we want a higher net worth, you've got to hang out with people that have a higher net worth. It's just, it's so important because the mindset's different. You know, they, the conversations are different. You know, if you look at any kind of any kind of sport team, I mean, I'll take baseball for instance, but I mean, well, I mean, let's just look at the all blacks, right? The starters are hanging out with the starters all the time. Those are sitting on the bench and not playing. They're hanging out with one another because the conversations are different. And you know, I love the all blacks when it comes to the culture because man, they're focused on the team and boy and I don't know how many little kids are there that aren't thinking, boy, I want to be one.

Speaker 2: (35:58)
Oh yeah. Everything.

Speaker 3: (36:01)
And that's the part, I mean, we've gotta be able to hang around successful people and winners, not people that were better than just so we can feel good about ourselves. Yeah. Harrison game. And that doesn't work.

Speaker 2: (36:14)
Yeah. So when you're hanging around people that you are actually at the top of the class, and if you like, then you don't really, but when you're hanging around people who challenge you and stretch you scare the hell out of you sometimes. Those are the ones that are going to help them change and develop and grow. So pick your tribe carefully is a, is a, is a hugely important message to take away from that one and get the coaching you need and get the support that you need around you so that those naysayers, when they come calling and they will come calling, don't have the control in your mind. And when you do have those naysayers or then you use it as fuel to overcome. Absolutely. Man. Yeah. You find ways to get there. So not people

Speaker 3: (36:57)
And this, and this is the point, Lisa, and I need you to, I need somebody, show me somebody that that reached success that did not have, somebody said you can't do it. Yeah, maybe there is, but I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 2: (37:10)
We've all had those people want, I mean, yeah, I've had them all less through my life and in there can be your family, be your best friends. And it's not to say they're not good people. There may be reasons why they are saying this to you. I know, you know, parts of my family. It was like fear for you because they're scared that you're going to get hurt, you know, or going to fail. And what happens then? And so that can be well-meaning naysayers, but they can still be nice. I as, and we have to get ourselves away from that and listen to the people who've done it and listen to the people who tell you you can do it and that you're going to get there and give you a pass to get on your way. And that's why it's really, really important. I want us to just talk a little bit about scarcity mindset versus the abundance mindset and why it was competitive world that we live in.

Speaker 2: (38:03)
You know, we don't have to be, well, if I help that person, I mean, classic example, so mental toughness coaches, right? We could be going, well, I'm not talking to him because he's competition, you know? Or I can go, wow, he's got insights that I don't have and perhaps I haven't sliced the, you don't have. And we can. Yeah, we can. We can learn from each other and we can grow. And that's a, that's a classic example of the mindset we both have, which is an abundance mindset and not a scarcity mindset. Do you see a lot of the other, you see a lot of the scarcity mindset and how do you.

Speaker 3: (38:37)
I mean, you know, I think we all possess, I still possess it. You know what I mean? I, I think true success, true success is when we can root for everybody. Because then what that means is, is, you know, and I, I grew up sometimes I would go to my wife's you know, Thanksgiving and they'd have these meals, but it's a big Italian family. And if you don't get in there, that's going to be gone.

Speaker 2: (39:01)
Well, right?

Speaker 3: (39:04)
Yeah. I mean, so if we approach life that way, then what we're saying is, is that there's one piece of pie for me. If I don't get that piece of pie, then it's gone. Look, there's the, being able to root for everybody means that I can still have my slice and you can be successful too. Being able to root for everybody is true success because it means just because that person's successful doesn't mean I can't be successful too. And then we're not playing a zero sum game, then we're playing a game of abundance and then just the game changes, you know, we're playing on a different one. That's the part where I kind of look at like how often am I room for other people and if not, then I'm coming from the point of scarcity. The real part about that and the scary part is then that's what I start projecting. Know the people only when I can get that abundance mindset in here, then, then I'm able to give that away.

Speaker 2: (40:01)
Yeah. Without being, these are my little pressure steams when no one else is giving them and having that mindset of I have to hold everything in and my knowledge or my, whatever it is, skills or whatever is a scarce thing. It isn't just about one, one point. There's only one slice for you. It's actually lots of highs when you start walking in. And I think just adopting that attitude in life makes you a more generous and caring human being for other people. So doctor, I'm thinking very much for all of these insights today. I really appreciate your time and I hope we will get to have a few more sessions like gruesomely I'd love to swap notes and maybe work on an idea or two with you. And dr Rob also has his own podcast. Can you tell us where people can, can listen to your show wants?

Speaker 3: (40:49)
Oh well yeah, it's a, it's 15 minutes of mental toughness either on my website, www.drrobbell.com or or Apple. I am and I look forward to having you as a guest on their tool. I can collect is, yeah, cause your book will be coming out. Thanks. Fantastic. And that would be great.

Speaker 2: (41:06)
No, it'd be absolutely fantastic to do that and I can't wait to do, to do a few things with you, Dr. Rob, I'm very glad that I found you on LinkedIn. It's been fantastic and I'm sure that my listeners would have gotten a lot out of today, so I really appreciate that. Dr Rob bell.com six books Siemens on the way. Go and check those books out. There's also a 30 day challenge on, on Dr Rob's website. Make sure you check that one out as well. And if you've got any questions, I'm sure Dr Rob will help you. If you've got, if you've got anything that you want to know from him, so please reach out to them. Have you got a Instagram handle or a Facebook or anything? I do. It's you know, with Twitter and Instagram says D R or B B E L L. Easy. So doc, Rob, thank you very much for your time today and we'll be in touch again soon.

Speaker 1: (41:55)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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High-Intensity Interval Training is all the rage at the moment and for good reason, there are so many sporting, performance and health benefits to be had from this type of training. But it isn't all just about all-out sprints and going till you blow but using HIIT Training strategically and learning the different types of HIIT training and how to integrate them into your sporting and fitness goals. Dr. Paul Laursen has a Ph.D. in Exercise Physiology, is an author of the bestselling book "The Science and Application of HIIT Training" alongside co-author Dr. Michael Bucheit. He is an Endurance coach, high-performance consultant and has helped many of the world's top athletes get the best out of their bodies. He is an Adjunct Professor of Exercise at Auckland's AUT and was formerly the head of Physiology of High-Performance Sport NZ and resides at the nexus between research and applied sports science. He is an expert and goes into in this episode HIIT training types, Heart Rate Variability and how to use it gauge your training and health, Thermoregulation and Artificial Intelligence in training. He has don 17 Ironmans himself and uses his experiences both as a top-level athlete and scientist to help his athletes. He has two websites www.hiitscience.com where he offers a course in HIIT training for coaches and exercise scientists and his book and www.paullaursen.com. He is the co-founder of the Floe Bottle (www.floebottle.com) - which delivers ice slurries via a specially designed bottle for athletes training and racing in extreme temperatures. Ultramarathon running Pros & Cons Timestamp: 7:13 why is HIIT Important across all sports?

10:53 how do slow-twitch fibers have in endurance muscles

12:29 the 5 HIIT training weapons

16:03 how far should we go with HIIT training?

18:32 Are other sports (except for running/swimming/rowing considered as HIIT?

20:17 what type of training is best for ultra running?

22:10 Is There a Danger in overtraining? and is there a way of returning to balance?

27:40 ways to reach balance and lowering stress

33:27 About HRV + HRV app (HRV for training)

38:40 The Flow Bottle

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Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Hi people, and welcome to pushing the limits. Before we get under the under way with today's guest, Dr. Paul Laursen, who I'm going to be introducing in a moment, I just want to remind you to please, if you enjoy the show, give us a rating or review on iTunes. It really, really helps the show get exposure, share it with your friends and your networks. We do a lot of amazing interviews with incredible people and the value that you get out of the show is really, I think, awesome. Some slightly biased well with the time investment. We'd also like to invite you to come and check us out on our website at lisatamati.com And check out our programs. Now we have three flagship programs. We have our online run training system running hot. And this is all about helping you develop your running skills and taking you to the next level.

Speaker 2: (01:03)
It's how to run faster, how to run further and longer without burning out, without injuries. It's about what even level that you're all with you just starting out in your running career or with you're doing, you know, 101 hundred miler. We'd love to help you there. The other program that we have is called mindset. You now, this is my online mental toughness and emotional resilience equals that you can do, which is all about developing that mental game, getting stronger in your mind, developing leadership qualities helping you be more resilient to cope with all the stresses that life throws at you and how to reframe your mind stronger for whatever challenges you are facing. And then the third flagship program that we have is epigenetic testing. Now, epigenetics is a pretty new area of study. This is an incredible program that we're having huge results with, with our, with our clients.

Speaker 2: (02:00)
And it's basically personalizing your health and fitness program to you and your genes and how they're expressing right now. So you'll get information from this about Zachary, what foods to eat and what ones to avoid. More importantly what times of the day you should be eating, how many meals they should be having, what work environment you do well and what social environment, what dominant hormones you have, what a body type you have, whole lot of information that will really help you take your training to the next level without being generic. And it's all specifically made for you and what you're doing right now. So check out all those programs at lisatamati.com now today's show, I have Dr. Paul Laursen. Now Dr. Paul is one of the world's leading scientists and hit training that's high intensity interval training. He's a exercise physiologist, the manager of high sport in New Zealand at AUT and is an adjunct professor of exercise physiology at a UT in Oakland.

Speaker 2: (03:07)
He resides at the nexus between research and applied sports science and physiology and he's a real expert on HIIT training on HIV, on Sumo regulation and on using AI for training. So it's really interesting interview. I'm sure you're going to get a lot out of it now without further ado, over to the show. Well, hi everyone. Listen to how many here at pushing the limits. Once again, thank you so much for your loyalty and coming back to the show every week. I really, really appreciate it. I'm super, super excited. I've been studying all yesterday and I've got one of the, one of the world's leading experts and head science and exercise physiology on the show today. I'm Dr. Paul Laursen, so thank you very much, Dr. Paul for being on the show. Welcome to the pushing the limits. Oh, thank you for having me. Listen. Honored to be here. It's so exciting. Dr Post's setting in Canada but he also knows New Zealand very well because he was the head of exercise physiology over here. Yeah. and you were here for two Olympic cycles training our Olympic athletes.

Speaker 3: (04:15)
That's right. Yeah. I was there for the Rio or, yeah, the London and the Rio Olympic cycles and I was leading the physiology team at that point in time, so, Oh wow. Great times. Awesome memories based at the millennium Institute on the North shore in Oakland. And you know, words have a hard time kind of describing this, like what a great time in life. That was for my whole family and stuff and so much learning along the way as well. That really forms where I'm at today with hit signs and some of the other stuff that we'll talk.

Speaker 2: (04:52)
Yeah, because you're really at the cutting age between your, you yourself are a very experienced iron man triathlete. So you have experience actually as an athlete as well as being a professor and exercise physiology and having all these experience with Olympic athletes. That must, you know, it's an incredible combination. Can you drop a few names of people that you perhaps worked with an ORC and that'd be interesting to, to, to know.

Speaker 3: (05:21)
Well I mean, you know, I don't know if I can really name drop too much. Like it's not, I think the cool thing about being a physiologist is that you, you sit in the background and you work with people and you work with all the top coaches and the top athletes, but you really just need to, yeah. You just kind of be the quiet person in the back. And I mean anyone in that you can just about anyone in that Olympics, those two Olympic cycles, you touch their program and see the, through the coaches support. It's a big end. Like it's, and again, I'm just one cog in the wheel of the high-performance system, so it's just, and it's a whole, it's all about team and yeah. So but yeah, no lots, lots of other, lots of big names, but they're not big on dropping.

Speaker 2: (06:15)
Fair enough. Fair enough. So Dr. Paul today I want to go into some of your areas, especially special day. So a lot of my audience, not all of them, but a lot of my audience are runners. And many of them are ultra marathon runners. And I'd like to we're going to get into the science of, of hit training. So high intensity interval training for those listening and how the supplies and maybe something in, in the sport, like, like marathon running or long distance running and, and what sort of benefits we can gain from it. So can you tell us a little bit about band and then I would like to go later on to heart rate variability and or those sort of good things as well. But let's start with training. So you've written the book on her, on her training what does the title the signs and application of her training. Can you tell us a little bit about why is it training so important across so many sports?

Speaker 3: (07:14)
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's super important. And, and when you look at a sport like ultra distance running, you would think it may be almost has no place, but in fact your listeners can get massive gains by implementing such type of training in their, in their programming. And you know, well, let's maybe ask the question why, why would someone who's doing a, you know, a hundred K ultra possibly benefit from hit? And the, I, I guess they're, they're really, I mean, we should also define what hit is like high intensity interval training specifically is defined as repeated bouts of high intensity exercise that are performed above your threshold. So that threshold kind of pace going to be above that by by default for it to be called kit, but not even moderate intensity sustained efforts. We're actually talking like above your your threshold. In other words, it's, you can't sustain the exercise for too long before you have to stop and take a breath.

Speaker 3: (08:19)
If you were to hold the exercise intensity up there, you would, you know, you need to ultimately fatigue. So if you're doing this repeatedly, you're actually you're listening some effects in your physiology that you're not going to be getting from just your steady state exercise, your long distance training. And some of these key ones are recruitment of your fast Twitch muscle fibers. So you get to, you know, you get to build on those fast Twitch muscle fibers. You, you know, you have to use those by default to perform such exercise. And that creates the adaptations you want, especially as an ultra distance runner. You want to create those faster Twitch muscle fibers, make them more slow Twitch like, or fatigue resistant and oxidative. And you do that by if it's, if the stimulus is repeated, you wind up actually doing that. So and then the second one relates.

Speaker 3: (09:15)
So that's the peripheral component. The second component really relates to the central component. And I am like, I'm pointing to my, when I'm saying central component, I'm really pointing to my, my heart, my cardiac cardiac apparatus. So the VIN trip, the ventricles of the heart wind up stretching out further filling up further. And by default they actually push more blood out to your stroke volume, winds up, increasing your cardiac output winds up increasing. So you and you and you get more so than chicken as stretch, more so than if you were just gonna do a steady state long exercise. So by supplementing his exercise into an ultra distance program, not all, but just that, you know, intermittently in the week your listeners will get you know, a real, real good bang for their buck.

Speaker 2: (10:09)
Yeah, no, I as an, as a young athlete before I knew what the hell I was doing at all, I used to do just miles and miles of slow, long distance running. I had no speed genetically speaking, you know, I wasn't right. Didn't have a great Theo to max or anything like that. And so for years, especially in ultra distance, it was very much a sort of a pioneering time if you like, you know, 20 something years ago and we had no idea of anything or at least not my circles. I just go out and just run long and slow because that's what we were going to be doing in the race long. And so and of course I could get to the finish line of those races, but it wasn't the most efficient style of training as I now know. But it was, it took me a bit of a stretch to get my head around why, you know, if I'm all about the slow Twitch fibers, I'm all about the endurance.

Speaker 2: (10:58)
What possible benefit can I do by recruiting my fast Twitch fibers? And I'm sure I've got very few left. I don't know if you can lose them all when you're doing journeys training. So how do the fast switch fibers actually benefit you later in a, in a, in a longer race, for example? You know, why is it not just all about the slow Twitch fibers I get, I get the cardio output side of things. You're going to be fed, you know, Hy-Vee, [inaudible] and so on. But from the flow Twitch fibers don't ant they the most important thing for an endurance runner.

Speaker 3: (11:34)
Yeah, they would definitely be the most important thing. However the more fast of the larger motor units you know, it's a bit of a continuum. It's, you know, it's hard to say whether a one is actually fast versus slow. So the key thing is actually the like, like you want to be able to these larger motor units like the the fast Twitch fibers, and when you do, they're more powerful right there. They're actually bigger. And these more, these bigger and more powerful motor units when they're contracting, they're going to be able to propel you a lot faster than your slower ones. So your pace will be able to be increased. Your pace on the Hills will be a lot better. You just have, you, you'll just feel a lot more energy ultimately. So you'll be able to,

Speaker 2: (12:23)
Yeah, a sustain a higher pace even over the longer, along with us sensors. Now there are different types of training. Do you, have, you talked about the five training weapons, I think you call them. Let's look at that because you know you know, for the average person, hit training just means, you know, perhaps sprinting and then backing off and sprinting again. What are some of the variables and some of those different types of pet training that we can do?

Speaker 3: (12:51)
Yep. So the two key variables and the most influential ones are the intensity of the workout and the duration of the work boat. Those are the two key ones, right. And then we can also look at the recovery interval as well. The intensity and the duration of the recovery interval. But let's just focus on you know, if we break the intensities up, the first one we usually start with is our long interval. And this would be just above your are just, sorry, just at, pardon me, your VO two max exercise intensity if and if you know where that might might be. Right. So that might be sitting on a, you know, repeated one K efforts on the track would be typically if you're going to do, you know you know, six of those that's typically around your BX max and exercise intensity or you know, you're, you're starting your 1500 meter to 3000 meter run pace on the track, all that kind of thing.

Speaker 3: (13:46)
So, but yeah, so you're kind of repeating those four, a two to five minutes repeated, repeated bouts of that for two to five minutes at that pace. And that's typically, or that's considered your a long interval. And that's the first of the five questions that you referred to. Second weapon is the short interval. The short interval aren't done. It just a marginally higher exercise intensity that we've done in a long interval, you know and these might be on the track, might be like, Nope, 100 or 200 or 300 meter repeats, something like that with the equivalent. Usually equivalent rest intervals is recovery too. So I've done a little bit harder, not much, just a little bit more harder than the long interval with with, with some sh with equivalent short rests. So these are typically in the 10, second to 62nd range duration and 10 seconds to 62nd range of recovery.

Speaker 3: (14:43)
Got, there's your long interval, there's your short interval, and then the, the other three. Let's let so the next one is you, you referred to it. Do I all out? But yeah, the next two are all out maximal sprints. Tobacco, like intervals for the sprint interval training. Those are the long sprints or really short and sharp all out short sprints for repeated sprint interval sprinting. And we'll try it. So I'm sorry, repeated sprint training, R, R, S. T. and then the last one is not used too much in the the ultra distance context, I would think. But it's game-based interval training. So there's a good, there's a good team sport base of of people in New Zealand with the rugby and the football. All those various different sports. And if you're in a team sport, you're definitely using game-based animal training. They're typically, they're like, you're actually in putting the ball into play as you do an interval

Speaker 2: (15:41)
And making it a bit more fun and very short sort of sharp bursts of, of, of activity.

Speaker 3: (15:46)
So, and the coach will actually do that and they'll kind of almost trick their players into getting the, the, the work the work done. So yeah, they create, create fun, but it's also very sports-specific too. So you can see why it's so successful in the team sport contents.

Speaker 2: (16:02)
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you said, you said trick them into it because you know, we, when I hear training I hear, Oh no. And I like personally when I have to go, I've got a head session on today, it's like, Oh no, here we go. You know how, how do you overcome that sort of a feeling of like, because you know, should you be going to the point of, of absolute exhaustion and throwing up in the bucket somewhere during these sessions? Or is that going too far? Like, you know and it is another question too. Is training only in relation to running like cardiovascular or a bike or can you do say a tobacco session net counts as a hit training session? So it can be weights relate related or is it only sort of cycling and

Speaker 3: (16:54)
I'm running? Sure. So let's start with your first question there, which is basically around the whole, you know, does it have to do, have to go to the weld? Does it have to be no pain, no gain? And that is a really important question that you asked Lisa because it's absolutely not, the shouldn't hit equipment hit training was never originally designed for that. It you should like, it should not be no pain, no gain. Like, that's not if you've taken it to where it's too painful, like that's, you've taken it too, too far and it's ultimately not, not very effective for almost like a longevity type type sort of thing. So you, the key thing that we find with training, those who are most successful in training are those who backup session after session. Consistency of training is key. And if you are going to the well and you're killing yourself and you're not able to perform the next day because you to be trained too hard in a hit session or for whatever year you're slowing down the progression compared to what you could actually, she had you had, you punched a little bit back and then repeated that repeated some sort of a session the next day.

Speaker 3: (18:10)
So that's the first question. It's not about no pain, no gain. It's not about going to the, well, always leave a session like you could have done one more. So the first rule remind me of your second question. Second question was, is it only cardio is hit training only in relation to say cycling and running is yes, no cardio, you know, activities also tobacco and or CrossFit, you know, those sort of things counted as hit training. Yeah, bit of a debatable one. So from a purest standpoint, it's typically we're talking about a, you know, a, a mode of exercise like cycling, running, rowing, swimming, a whole body type exercise. However, there's lots of ways to skin the cat as we love to say. And you know, there's a lot we see this being done throughout team sports and exercise and fitness industries, CrossFit, etc.

Speaker 3: (19:09)
And the, you know, there's, there's certainly way, loads of different ways to kind of do that. So I guess it's kinda yes and kind of no on that question. It just really depends on the camp that you're sitting in. Here's to our own. Yeah. And also like, I mean also depends probably on like what you're trying to. So if you're a time crunched individual that has to sit in an office and work most of the day, you know, you might like a cross fit type exercise where it's hitting lots of different things like circuit training, that might be all you can kind of get in in the day. And that might be really practical to your context. So it's super, super. If we're going to take the professional athlete, we don't recommend it because the professional athlete context, typically we can just be a little bit more precise with the, with the training and we don't have to be super setting everything and going back and forth.

Speaker 3: (20:05)
That will differ and that will differ across you know, beliefs and strategies of, of different conditioners. That's just what Martin and I kind of feel with our, with what we, what it is that we do. So it's very specific to the sport hat that you're doing. So you would train a soccer player different than you would train to note for a marathon runner or an iron man triathlete. What are some of the typical training? I mean, not typical training sessions. Probably a hard one to answer, but if you had an athlete coming to you that doing a hundred K, what type of trainings would you prescribe to them as a typical part of the week? Yep. So if

Speaker 3: (20:48)
I was training an ultra runner, I would probably train them very similar to a, you know, a marathoner and I would train them, you know, they would they would have lots of elements of the long slow distance type training in it, but they would fit in terms of the hid sessions. There would likely be a short interval session in there. So like 30 on 30 off, you know, set point in certain sets of 30 on 30 off, say like you know, seven 30 on 30 off and then followed by five minutes easy. And then repeat that. So you're actually listening of the OT response and you're again recruiting those fast Twitch muscle fibers. I might have a long interval in there, a few long intervals at a couple of different moments in the, in the training program. I would be implementing Hill training in there. Most definitely because so many ultras actually have have a Hill requirement. Plus that would be kind of a, as a strength endurance element that we wanted their, both that benefit that you get both on the uphill climbing as well as the downhill. So I think those would be the key. Those would be the key elements in addition to some moderate intensity, pace, pace work and lots of lots of long distance work in there.

Speaker 2: (22:07)
Yeah. And that's sort of what we sort of, you know, adhere to, to generally. So I want to ask you what are the dangers like? I just, you know, selfishly asking for personal reasons now I've done obviously, you know, loving long time of doing stupid amount of running. And in the beginning, you know, just doing huge, huge mileage and now I'm totally not into huge monitor meant more the, you know, bearing everything up and the five pillars, we call them, say, you know, your strength training in mobility, your, you run sessions of varying types your nutrition and your mental game as well. But I've run into problems with burnout and adrenal exhaustion and the HPA access, you know, in the gutter, basically cortisol, not while I'm like at a stage now where the cortisol is just not, not producing at all. It's just like more day is have. And I think I've done too many we're long staff and the, the head stuff as well. Is your danger in doing too much overtraining and can you come back from that very complicated your way back for me?

Speaker 3: (23:34)
Yeah. I mean I think the body always wants to get back and heal itself and return to homeostasis and balance. Right. So, so, and I think you know, the answer to the first question, you certainly can burn out food too much, too much yet. And that is a, so you may have seen the article in the film afternoon and I wrote on the unhealthy athlete and that's really around the old you know, burnout thing with fit but unhealthy. Healthy. Yeah. So it's made its rounds around rounds around the world and, and yeah, that's one of the ones that, yeah, I mean I even saw that a lot in the high performance sport context, whether it was just too much intensity in certain programs and we do see this, this burnout that actually occurs. And yeah, it really, really, it's just, it just requires a period of rest and provides a, usually a well let me back up a bit and just say that, you know, there's stress comes in many different forms and it's often not just the high intensity interval training that's contributing to that.

Speaker 3: (24:37)
A lot of times it's a bunch of different stressors that are coming into play and creating a perfect storm ultimately. So we've got, you know, nutrition can be a stress in itself if it's inappropriate for the individual. A lack of sleep is a huge stressor. Psychosocial stresses that we all experience through our human existence, going to life. So all of these things create and then add exercise into that as well. If any of those are creating too much of a stress, but we're all, it affects what you mentioned, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access, the HPA axis, which is basically our integrator in the brain between the nervous system and the endocrine system. And it, it it's there to help protect us. At least it was, and now I can can sabotage. That's right.

Speaker 3: (25:29)
And, and yeah, and then also we can see we can reach the point where it's you know, it's almost done a little bit too much and we're not able to return to create, to you know, create the hormonal profile that we need to have control our moods and, and these sorts of things. Right. But at the end of the day, it requires rest and recovery. One of the, one of the little tricks that I like to use, or I sometimes when that happens, is a floating, and I'm not sure if floating is taken off in New Zealand has around flotation tanks.

Speaker 3: (26:10)
It's a great means of of resetting and returning the body to homeostasis. What immune, it's not like you're going to get there on one single float, but it's like a series of floats can reset the sleep and then it can, and then the body can kind of come back into rhythm. You really need to get back into that circadian rhythm again and getting, yeah, so, so what you're saying, and it's something that we talk about a lot and now coaching is you've got a bucket of stress and it, you, if you were sticking in mental stress,

Speaker 2: (26:44)
Work, stress can stress whatever wrong photos and then your bucket sets here fall and then you've stopped putting in training loads that and when you're not a professional athlete, you just, you know, busy executive or something with three kids, then you're going to overfill the bucket and then you've got to tip over. And that's when they sorts of things can start to happen. And and on that point we could get onto the heart rate variability in a moment. But yeah, it is, it is quite a struggle. What we're seeing a lot of with the people that we're coaching is where we touch a lot of Sonata elite athletes as much as probably 80% woman and their thirties, forties and 50s who are having hormonal changes as well as going through, you know, but trying to still stay at the top end of the of their game, wherever they're at. And that can be quite a tricky tight rope walk as well. Have you got any experience or any advice for, for say, a woman approaching those changes, menopausal years, period, menopause in regards to the training that can help them get through that period if you like.

Speaker 3: (28:00)
You know, I don't I don't have any great advice that's you know, it doesn't really add on what I just kinda mentioned. Like you've got to, so those changes are going to be happening. That's a natural physiological occurrence. Can't get away from that. And your management of those issues is going to relate to your own context. You're going to do the best you can. But some of these strategies such as really checking in with your diet, you know you know, potentially there's a lot of individuals that have, I think they've gotten the diet right, but maybe it could actually be better not issues. That's a real telltale sign that something's a little bit off. You get some help with that. Cause that could be, you know, two things that are, that are kind of going awry in the, in the diet or in the, in the stressors.

Speaker 3: (28:57)
And then, you know, things like in meditation it's so much easier to say that harder to do, but if people can find a meditation practice that helps, that is, that is one, another way that you can kind of reset the HPA axis. Almost forced meditation is this look flood tank kind of, lot of people can't have, they can't even imagine getting into one of these isolation tanks because they think like they're just so claustrophobic and anxious about it. And that is again, a telltale sign that they could be an issue there. Right. If he can't do that, that's another, yeah. That, that anxiety might be elevated. Stress might be elevated in that individual too. So, and where do you start with us? You know, I don't know. You just take one step at a time, fix one little thing, make one step towards becoming a, you know, lowering that stress in your life. Yeah. Because there's no, there's never a blanket solution for every individual. And look, in my experience, the menopause process is very, it's quite variable. It's, you know, it's, it's all, it's weird on one morning and then it's fine the next moment. And then, yeah.

Speaker 2: (30:21)
Big conscious self proponent to be a good general Rowando. I'm not expecting the eighth all the time of yourself. But yeah, I think that the message, and I know I'm a very big proponent of meditation or deep breathing exercises and things like the Wim Hoff meets ed or those sort of areas that can help sort of stimulate that parasympathetic nervous system and calm the body down so that it is

Speaker 3: (30:45)
Not completely in fight or flight all the time. Having seen things. Yeah. Can I add one other big one is, you know, we're, we're both using it right now as we speak and some of the listener because they're listening to us likely on some sort of technology device, but it's, technology is a real big elephant in the room too. We haven't had that in the past. And that is another thing that really affects our stress levels as being glued, you know, to our, to our phones and to our computers and iPads and all these various different things. You know, it's become integrated and part of our life. But that's another big factor that we can, that can really make a difference. And that's probably why, you know, ultras are so appealing to people because their phone and need there need a little bit of technology behind when they go.

Speaker 3: (31:40)
They can just get away from it for a certain amount of time. And if you're feeling that way, like I know you, I know I do. So you've got, you know, there's, there's a, there's a little bit of magic that's probably within that whole you know need that we kind of need to appreciate. So last year I went on a big big paddle trip, but the family, and it was in a place in British Columbia where there's no technology and it's like, yeah, it's public. It was called the Bower and lakes. It's a series of, you know, 11 lakes and your poor through it. And there's just no point in taking any technology cause there's nothing out there. So you just, you live in when you're camping or that many days. And I just, you know, I can't tell you how incredible that was a whole reset of the, of the HPA axis for me. I just like, you know, it's back to nature and stuff. So doing more ultras.

Speaker 2: (32:40)
Yeah. I think, I think that's something that I'm miss. Cause I've stopped doing ultra marathons the last three years. I had a mum who got sick and I hate to, you know, drop everything and rehabilitate here. And I miss that singularity of thought and that, those hours of clearing the mind every day. And that's something that really is missing, especially when you're, you know, like, like yourself running businesses and folly. You know, always high-performance everything. And it can really be a load on the whole body that I think is actually worse than the load of ultra Raleigh. If I could go back to the simple days when all I had to worry about was the finish line getting to the finish line, it was a whole lot simpler than all that stuff that we have typically in our life and our crazy world now have coming at us. On their point. I wanted to start talking just briefly about HIV heart rate variability and how you use this to judge. What is it first status. Cause a lot of people still haven't really heard what heart rate variability is and how it works and how they can use it in their training. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 3: (33:49)
Sure. So heart rate variability is what the word kind of described. So it's variation of the heartbeat. And a lot of times when we, when we just start out and we just think of heart rate in itself, we think of it more of a less like a clock or like a metronome. And it just goes tick tock, tick tock, you know, if you're to, you know, listen to your heart, that's what you would think. But in actual fact, there's a lot of variation that's going on beat to beat. So it's like, it's actually going tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. And that variation, what scientists have discovered is that that variation in those beads actually means something when it's more like the clock or the metronome and it's just, it's right on time. You're using what's called your sympathetic system or your fight or flight.

Speaker 3: (34:41)
Okay. So your stress would be high. And when it's really a lot more variable, I'm going all over the place. Well that's more associated with the parasympathetic system, the rest and digest system being relaxed or recovery like when you're sleeping. So what's what's happening now is there's, we've, we've gotten very innovative means being able to get, get a hold of the area of this heart rate variability. And that's why people are hearing a lot more about this. If I certainly measure this in my own athletes and they can because they can do it. So simply now, and this was a, we had, we had the honor of being a part of this innovation and development and validation of it, the AUT lab in millennium. And we verified this HRV for training, not the HIV for training actually uses the iPhone camera. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this, but basically you can measure you can measure your heart rate variability just using like the, the phone, like a phone camera so you can actually use and you can actually like get a measure of your heart rate variability just on your, on your oxygen.

Speaker 3: (36:02)
Oh, well this is teeny of HIV for training. And we verify this and lab with against CCGs standard ECG. It uses various different, you know artificial intelligent means of, of just a, a stab wishing the, the HIV and it's even better than using a polar chest strap. We discovered HIV training so they can, people can get that in the app store and, and, and there's also a coaching version too. So I use the coaching version a bunch. All my athletes are on that. We can just see how easy this is. So I was right or wrong. I do sleep with my my iPhone beside my bed and I wake up in the morning. Yeah, very, very first thing I'll do is I'll take this measurement of the HIV and that just automatically logs on to the HIV for training, I guess server and then your coach or yourself can actually look at that and he can actually get your score and yeah, you don't actually even look at what, you know, a single measure you don't usually look at like a single measure, but you looking at the trend and that measure over tolerance.

Speaker 3: (37:19)
And that's very useful, especially if you're under a heavy training load or stresses are getting in the way. So all the stress stuff that we were talking about before, it can be quantified using the HRV for training or at least it's on marker. Right. So that's, that's a really exciting, I mean, we use a very simple analog version, which is like a, a wellness check sheet that sort of give us people who are writing a one to 10 on the hydration, their sleep and Nagel go their stress levels, all that sort of thing. But this is a much simpler way to just get that one figure. But there is a little bit of is it isn't just saying, Oh, today it's dropped before I'm not healthy or something's going on. You do have to look at the train lines and not reading too much into any single ratings, isn't it? So when you're saying I have a three or four days, there's something going on, that's when you get more maybe it's time to back off and have a, have a bit of a recovery period before you go and see a Nick session. So that's definitely a super exciting app. I'll be downloading it today. Everybody go and grab that. That's tip tip of the white, that one. So, and this is something that's very simple that we can really measure that if we're going into over-training or

Speaker 2: (38:36)
Getting sick or anything that's going on inside the body, it's a very quick way of, of giving us that measurement. So that's, that's super exciting. Now I wanted to go onto your flow bottle, but we, you have designed the flow bottle, which is like a slushie. And I said to Dr. Paul before I got on the recording, I wish I'd had that in this Valley or in the sorrow when I was running. So how does this work and why is so Summa regulation is another area that you're an expert in. Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 3: (39:12)
Yeah, sure. So this has a cool story that again goes back to New Zealand. And so when I first arrived in New Zealand and I was coming from Australia, I'd just done my PhD and been a professor over in Australia, working a lot with the Australian Institute of sport. And there were a couple of hot games that we were preparing for. I think one was Atlanta, another one was Athens. And yeah. And so pre-cooling was one of my areas that I did a lot of work on figuring out how we could cool the body beforehand. And one of the first things that my, I guess the leaders at HBS and Zed said when I first arrived is, you know, do something innovative Paul and figure out, you know, make sense, be creative and make us something that we, you know, our athletes can kind of use to to win on the world stage.

Speaker 3: (39:58)
So, but my head, you know, put my head on and got to work and I came up with this because I knew the power of, I slushie the coolest I from my work in Australia. I said, wouldn't it be cool if we could actually use ice slushie when we're exercising? And I said, Oh, perfect, easy. We'll just we'll, let's get a water bottle and we'll, we'll put ice slushie in it. There were no water bottles at the time that would allow for the expulsion of a slushie when you were exercising. So that's when we went to the, there's this innovation project with the engineers and the university of Canterbury down in Christchurch. So we got into their program, they took it on and a bunch of fourth year engineering students made the flow bottle, which is basically a, you know, they figured out, they did all these, did various different experiments to figure out how they were going to design a bottle to be able to cause for the, the the ice to ice slushy to kind of get out of that, keep it cold.

Speaker 3: (41:02)
And they came up with a prototype bottle. They did an amazing job. And then a company by the name of procreates a Graham Brewster, his company out of, out of Auckland North shore. He and his team made a beautiful, what I believe is a beautiful design of a silicone version of this one. You know, a Silicon from your other nets and other sorts of gay, it's been kind of keeps it like it's solid, but it's still like you can kind of you know, push it to to laugh that slushy to come. And they made beautiful design in terms of the nozzle and, and now, now we have the, the flow bottle. Yeah, it's being used by number of different countries in the, the Olympics. You might've heard that the Tokyo games, it's just going to be absolutely in terms of the key. So it's already been used in the test event. We've seen some very great photos, New Zealand team mates using that and that's been just absolutely awesome. And and yeah, the so it's, it's, it's pretty exciting. So it's available for anyone to use and especially your listeners most to be in New Zealand can, can can access that pretty easily through, through the flip bottle website. And and actually, you know hitting up procreate for some for some bottles.

Speaker 2: (42:23)
Oh, got to get one. So what is the website there? So this is tip number two for the, for today's show we get asked a flow bottle from what was the essence

Speaker 3: (42:33)
L O E ball. So we're a bottle so and no flow. FFL OB is like a plan where it's with like a a nice slow, which is but yeah, like a nice, a nice slow like a, you know, like a, like an iceberg and stuff. And then they call like little pieces that are breaking off and hanging out there in the Arctic. The uthe flows. Yeah. So it's, yeah.

Speaker 2: (42:55)
Well something that they will be very beneficial in some of these hot races, especially hot long running races. How does ISIS is the last thing before we wrap up today? So I'm aware of your time. How does when you put ice in your tummy, doesn't it? I've always hated it. It's not good, you know, and we'll stop the digestion and cause trouble. Is that true or what's, what's the go there?

Speaker 3: (43:19)
No, it certainly wouldn't be through the cool temperatures and that can only kind of benefit. So we should actually leave with, with being very clear on the benefits and why I especially actually works from a cooling standpoint. So it works for a couple of different reasons. First of all, it's almost like reverse of the sweating process. So when we sweat and our sweat is actually a BACP rated on our skins, it's the process of the evaporation, the actual state change from a liquid to a gas elicits that energy release, heat energy us. So again, that's a, that's a very important physics kind of principle that allows us to survive in not sweating. But when you can't evaporate your sweat and not flakes, such as in places like Tokyo or Hawaii unity, what are you going to do? Well then you can't really do too much about it.

Speaker 3: (44:12)
You can, a little trick of course is to work the opposite phase chain and you're, you're actually going from a, the same thing happens stuff that happens on you when it's going from a solid to a liquid. So you're putting solid ice into your system and in order to melt that ice, it has to, the ice has to rotate heat, energy away from your body. And it does that in the places that matter as well. When you're ingesting it, it's cooling your neck and the carotid vessels that are going back up to your brain. And same with your essential core. So you're getting it in just the right places that you need it. And yeah, I mean all the sciences on the website, if people are interested and cleaning all of the research papers, it's well documented within the studies. Again, that's why I'm, and that's at this thing cause I was, you know, we did, we did eight years of research in a laboratory to kind of uncover a lot of this stuff works like a hot damn.

Speaker 2: (45:09)
Wow. Cause one of the things that we did say in death Valley or whether it was extreme temperatures was always having ice, little ice bags that we hit on our wrists and up here, a thing around here. But yeah, nobody had one of those back then. So definitely something to watch out for. Now. Dr. Paul, you have a course, a training course for any other, you know, sports and conditioning coaches out there who want to really dive deep into the top in science. Tell us a little bit about that course and about the book that goes along with that and what you are doing now and how people can reach out to you.

Speaker 3: (45:46)
Yeah, for sure. So I am, so my main, I guess main work is with hit science. So it's hits which is H tie it, science.com. Check it, check that out. And there's a course on there that the user can take and it'll teach you all these various different things. So for coaches, they'll find it very useful in terms of getting the prescription and you know, understanding how they can manipulate the sessions appropriately. Same with the book. So the book is published by human kinetics. It's a best seller and that's on Amazon. So again you can reach that through the hit science website as well as links on everywhere. And then otherwise, if you want to find out all the other different things that I'm doing, all my other different projects. Annette Nepal, arson.com, and I'm a, an endurance coach to many of the top endurance athletes in the world, at least in the sport of Ironman triathlon and a bunch of other different,

Speaker 2: (46:49)
You're an amazing coach and an amazing level at the top end of cutting edge science. I, I hope I can do that course and that in the course of the next year I've got another couple of I'm going to get through AP genetics training and a few other things, but I'd hope that I can get there because that's what helped take our athletes definitely to the next level as well. And that would be very interesting for us. So thank you for all this information today. I think there's been some real gems of wisdom for our listeners that they can take away. And yeah, everybody, you've got to do your training no matter what sport you're in. There is an application for this. If you want to find out more, if you want to dive deep into the research, get their book out of science and application or pet training by Dr. Paul Laursen and your colleague's name was Dr Michael Bucheit.

Speaker 2: (47:38)
So you can grab that. I'll put the the links in the show notes. Any last words, Paul, for for anyone out there or anything that you would like to say is the last message to get across? Well, my, just, my last message is that I miss miss New Zealand by the way friends and family back in New Zealand. We are a joint, so we spent enough time in there that we're actually a joint citizenship family heritage as well. And come back. We move back one day. We love, we love it there. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you so much Dr. Paul.

Speaker 1: (48:19)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

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In this episode, Lisa interviews one of the athletes she and Neil coach through Running Hot who has just completed his first 100 milers but Vin is not just one of their athletes but the head of the technical department in the business. In this race debrief they go deep into the mindset of what it takes to overcome injuries (a broken back) and temporary setbacks to ultimately succeed. About Vin Framularo

Vin Framularo is from Trumbull, CT, USA, and has been a member of the Running Hot Coaching family for over a year. Vin is coached as an athlete through the Running Hot Coaching program, and also excitingly helps the Running Hot Coaching team lead digital marketing initiatives.

He has been a competitive runner since high school and has been ultrarunning for over 2 years.

Vin recently completed his first 100-mile race at the New Hampshire Hamsterwheel Ultra Race in November of 2019. His journey as an ultra runner and overcoming a broken back was recently featured in UltraRunning Magazine online in November 2019.

Vin is the CMO & Co-Founder of The Framularo Group. He has been in the marketing and interactive media sector for over 15 years. Vin is an entrepreneurship graduate of Babson College and has his MBA in Management and MS in Interactive Media from Quinnipiac University.

When not leading fun marketing initiatives or running, Vin is an avid skier, snowboarder, and coach at EPIC Interval Training in Connecticut. In 2019 Vin raised $3,976 for Vermont Adaptive Ski & Sports to benefit adaptive athletes, as part of the Vermont 100 Mile Endurance Race and Team Run 2 Empower.

He is a member of his local trail running group the CT Trailmixers, a Freemason, a member of the Sons of the American Legion in his community, and a member of Sigma Phi Epsilon alumni board.

Connect with Vin at:

vin@framularo.com

http://instagram.com/vinframularo

https://www.linkedin.com/in/vincent-framularo-1690505/

https://www.facebook.com/vinframularo

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Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of Interview

 Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com.     Speaker 2   00:12 Hi everyone. This is Lisa Tamati here. I'm pushing the limits. Thank you very, very much for joining me once again on our podcast. We lo ve to have you join us. And today I have a special guest all the way from Connecticut and the USA and this is a guy who has been a part of our world now for about a year and a half I think. And is actually works with us at running hot and is our VP of everything I called them. Get involved with the head of the technical department if you like. And he's the one that makes everything run smoothly in the background because Neil and I definitely don't know what the hell we're doing. So welcome to the show Vin Framularo. Vin How you going?     Speaker 3   00:54 Oh, thanks Lisa. Great, good morning. Thanks for having me and always loved talking with you every week and yeah, it's, wow. It's, you're right. Almost a little more than a year. I've been part of the running hot family and pretty excited and have been following you for a little time before that. And I'm sure we can get into that a little bit. So I'm excited to be on. I love your podcast and you know me, I'm huge on the personal development and stuff. So excited for your answer.     Speaker 2   01:23 One of the reasons I wanted to bring Vin on the show, we had a, one of our other athletes and we're going to do a few athletes over the next few months. One of our other athletes met, scrapped and from New Zealand who just did his first 100 K we, we might've been a case study out of ed of him and we did a bit of a coaching session. So we're going to do something similar today. We're going to, she it VIN story and his background and how he's just got to complete some very, very big races. So Ben came to us, well he found us on the needs as you're doing joined us, joined up, and then we actually connected over all the technical staff and we ended up getting him on board with our company. But then his has got an incredible mindset and this is what I really want to delve into today because he has, he has a relentlessly positive editor that I just cannot lay sometimes. And his mindset really, really shines through. So I want to dig in today a little bit into Vin's history and his running successes that he's head, but also how he's got the, because he's had a couple of massive obstacles to overcome on the way. So then I want you to start by telling us a little bit about you, your family, where you're from and how you got into running and what you've been doing.     Speaker 3   02:44 Sure. Thanks Lisa. Yeah, so I'm from Trumbull, Connecticut, born and raised and I've lived a lot of different places, but that's always been home base. And right now I'm talking to you in my house, which is about a mile away from my parents and where I grew up. So we have our entire family in our neck of the woods here. And I have, I'm one of five siblings, so I have an older sister and older brother and two younger twin sisters. And I think you know, I, I'm the only runner in the family and I always tease people about that cause every family needs one of us crazy endurance athletes or renters. And kind of interestingly, I got into running when I was about nine or 10 years old because basketball was my first love and big sport at the time. And I remember telling my dad, we used to go vacation up in the purchasers and I really want to improve my speed and my vertical jump for basketball.     Speaker 3   03:47 Now I'm not the tallest person, but man, I could jump jump like a kangaroo. And when I was like a young kid, I was like, okay, I want to be even better. So I, I forget how I came up with the idea. I think I saw it in a movie and I was like, dad, I need to get ankle weights and strap them to my, my feet and then I can run up and down the mountain when we go on vacation. And most parents would tell you you're crazy, you know, and especially to a nine or 10 year old, I wanted to do this and my dad was like, sure, no problem and I'll follow you in the car. So I would do this two two mile loop around the mountain with ankle Wade strapped my feet and my dad would follow me in the car and took his day.     Speaker 3   04:29 He still takes credit of not just the genetics as an athlete, but that he's strapped ankle weights on my feet and I'll tell you, that worked excellent. I got good at basketball. It helped my overall fitness and just as a young kid to take that initiative, now that I think about it, I'm like, wow, what kind of nine year old wants to be like, yeah, I want to go run two miles up the mountain with ankle weights on my feet. Especially nowadays, it's like, no, I'll probably just play video games or hang out with my friends. Right. But yeah, so that really led into, I really started to get serious about running in my high school career. I was still playing basketball and then I needed a sport to do in the fall. So I first played soccer and then spring ran track and the track coach was like, Hey, congratulations, you're going to run year round.     Speaker 3   05:25 And I'm sure a lot of runners have probably been through that and they were a Multisport athlete and I was like, wait, you mean like run for fun? Like distance and what the hell? And you know, just like most runners, I fell in love with it. And it was really at that time I learned, unlike most sports where it's like you fight for playing time or you fight for to be on a team. This was the first sport I was part of. Not only if you weren't as good, you got more playing time. So to say that it really had a direct correlation to the hard work that you put in, you get out. And I was always a really hard worker and I was, you know, went on to captain, all of my teams in high school as well as ran in college and grad school. So that was really the base of running. And then fast forward, you know, till about a year and a half ago when I found running high, I started getting into ultra running, which is ironic because I remember in college reading runner's world and having your senior buddy Dean carne ASAs on the cover of a magazine. And I'm like, man, this guy's nuts. Why would anybody want to do that?     Speaker 3   06:44 And I think at the time I had just run my first marathon and I was probably 18 years old and ran the, ran the Boston marathon just for fun and for training. And I was like, gosh, sounds terrible. Why would I be? And at the time I was so, so it's funny how life, you know, he kind of point you in certain directions and I'm very grateful. I found you guys and ultra running for a lot of reasons, but that's kind of a brief background to my story there.     Speaker 2   07:15 Yeah, right. That, that, that sort of, I can't believe you did a marathon at 18 years old. Okay. You have definitely got a nutty gene and yet that's definitely come out of late. So, and then last couple of years, so I think it was like two and a half years ago. Then you had a really bad accident that you were currently in training. Can you check, go into a, into the story a little bit?     Speaker 3   07:41 Yeah. So I've told myself after college, but after college I'm like, gosh, I'm never going to run a marathon ever again. I'll just be a weekend warrior and have fun doing some five K's and half marathons and stuff. And then it all kind of ebbs and flows. So I eventually recapped marathon and thought it'd be a great idea to sign up again for a marathon. So I signed up for the bend, Oregon marathon, and that was right around my birthday, which was in April. So I was pretty excited and I was like, I'm getting started training for it and started really get back into running shape because I went for about a year or two where, you know, my career took precedence over. I was still running but not, you know, training as much as I should be. And you know, those rest days would turn into week long rest days and stuff instead of hitting the gym when he should be.     Speaker 3   08:35 So I was snowboarding in February and I went off a mogul and landed really hard. It was super ICL. I'll never forget it was presence day weekend. It was a Monday, which was our holiday and I didn't realize at the time, but when I fell back on my back, I'm a mogul. I could barely get up and couldn't move my right leg at all. So I got, went to the mountain doctor in ER, and then when I got home, went to the ER and it turns out I broke my back. And of course, like a typical runner, I don't know. I said, you know, I just want to know, well doc, how, how long is my recovery time? Cause I have a race in nine weeks. So if my marathon was nine weeks away and he looked at me like, you don't understand, you probably won't be walking right through about a year or two and you'll, you might not ever run again.     Speaker 3   09:27 Wow. And my response to the list, I remember kind of just looking at them and go, well what if I dropped to the half marathon marathon? And the doctor just looked at me like I had two heads and says, that's not going to happen. And so I left the doctor that day and I was like, no, that's going to happen. I'm, I'm going to that race compromise. I'll do a half, but I'll be there. So I went and got a second opinion. Of course that doctor kind of said something similar and that I decided to take it into my own hands and say, no, I can heal myself. I'll do lots of stretching, lots of rehab for my back. Lots of exercises and a lot of mindsets. So I started to look into alternative therapies and it's kind of like if you want different results, you have to do something extra ordinary.     Speaker 3   10:23 I heard about this book called self-mastery through conscious autosuggestion by you know, it's from the 1920s lease and it was this author, a meal, a meal QA, and basically it's just all the power of your mind and the power of belief and saying every day in every way I'm getting better and better. And I listened to that book. I got the audio version at the time religiously for like two hours at night when I went to bed and two hours in the morning. And I did that for weeks between the rehab that I was doing, just stretching, strength training and as well as constantly feeding that belief system and my mind through that book, I was able to not just be walking back to normal, but the pain was totally gone and I was, we're not to run that half-marathon nine weeks after hurting my back.     Speaker 3   11:18 Granted it was the slowest half marathon I had ever run in my life. But it was also the most fun cause I was just so grateful to be running. And and there was also a lot of fun for me cause it was made me be really grateful for the running and my body that I always kind of took for granted. And my running career up to that point was always just about trying to hit PRS, you know? So this was really eyeopening just to be grateful to my slow time. Yeah. Was a PR for someone else and just to be able to be out there and to have something. I love that. I've been doing my pretty much my whole life be kind of almost ripped away.     Speaker 2   12:01 You Beck was damaged or wasn't so your spinal cord was obviously intact or like your, your right knee looking properly.     Speaker 3   12:08 I broke my sacrum and my L L four and L five and so those just leading all the way, it felt like all the way from my buttocks up through my, my lower back. So that was     Speaker 2   12:24 A lot of rehab as well as the mindset stuff. So you are really focused on both of those aspects for that nine weeks to get back to that.     Speaker 3   12:34 Sure, yeah. Yeah. And and now, you know, I still take that as a priority. I'd never go to my chiropractor regular really to keep taking care of that back and I'm fully heal now and you know, thankfully. But really that also taught me that,     Speaker 2   12:51 Yeah, you, you really believe that. I mean, and I, and I certainly believe this too. And that's funny that that book that you mentioned, self mastering, what does it, self-mastery,     Speaker 3   13:00 Yeah. Conscious auto suggestion or auto suggestion through self-mastery, through conscious autosuggestion science, say that self-mastery through conscious auto suggestion.     Speaker 2   13:17 Now this is really important because this was written in the 1920s, and like the science is now catching up to what was then probably very woo and not, not validated, but it was obviously a great book already. And now science is really validating. Like wait was Dr. Joe Spencer and Bruce Lipton, who I talk about constantly on the show, talking about the power of what you believe and what you put in your head. It's not just you know, you, you, when you are, you're willing something to happen and you actually influence yourselves and your, your body to heal itself. And I do think that this is a very, and this is not an easy thing to do, it's not like, well, I've just decided today to believe in this. It's going to have to really reprogram that subconscious mind, don't you? And this has helped you like moving forward from this where you like, you're really interpersonal development. It's like you're always reading everything.     Speaker 3   14:19 Yeah. I'm even rereading your book right now. Yeah. We're running hot, which is a great one. I would recommend that to anyone listening. So,     Speaker 2   14:28 And we're re-publishing that guys soon. So running hot does Stacey you know, I are editing a whole lot through that book and re re what do you call it? You're republishing it. Putting out a second edition, hopefully in time for the release of my other book, relate those which comes out in March as well. So bit of a plug there for myself. So what chapter? That one, but next to the personal development. It's really, really so important that you do the work before you need it. You actually, you've got the tools when you, when you hit a crisis side.     Speaker 3   15:03 Yeah. And you know, great example that we still, I was thinking of it recently and I just encountered right before we got on the call, I was talking about this woman I met at my, I just finished my first a hundred miler as you know, and thanks to your Neil's awesome coaching through running hot and you know, I could talk for hours about that. And yeah. And cause woman that was at my race, she was pacing a friend of mine who was an adaptive athlete visually impaired. And it was my first encounter with her and I got to see her again this weekend and she was like, man, you're so positive. And the whole time. I remember at one point you were, we're sitting around the campfire, I wasn't sitting by, just came in quick, said hi and then went back out cause it was a loop course and she goes, man, you look like you were, you could be asleep walking up, but you're still smiling and you are still, Nope, I gotta just keep moving forward and that, you know, and I, she asked me if I'm always like that and I'm like, yeah, generally I am, but you know, I take a lot of deliberate practice to work on my mindset.     Speaker 3   16:13 I'm constantly reading books. I'm constantly listening to podcasts such as yours. I remember the start of that race, someone was complaining about the weather, you know, it was 30 degrees Fahrenheit and then it got down to like 26 degrees     Speaker 2   16:28 Fahrenheit zero here. Yup.     Speaker 3   16:29 Yeah. At all. I just remember thinking, well I got to get, get away from this guy because they're not going to last. You can't go into a race like that with that kind of mindset. And sure enough, that person only lasted for about five hours in a 30 hour race because you can't look at it.     Speaker 2   16:49 You got to surround yourself with people who are positive and who believe that you can get there and, and, and avoid like the plague. Like anybody who's going to tell you you can't do something or it's all complain about everything, every five minutes because that is going to set all of your energy. So you had the, the, the way it was all at that race to go, I'm going to remove myself from here to keep myself. And it's protecting yourself, you know, that's protecting your mindset. And we need to all do this. And our daily lives protect their mindset from people who will run us through a nice size, who are negative, who tell us we can't do things like the doctor who said that you won't, you know, you know, you'd probably run it run again and you certainly won't. You're running a marathon, you know, a half marathon and I'm weak.     Speaker 2   17:38 So, so this, and this is what I've noticed with you is you have, I mean, you and I both do a hell of a lot of personal development stuff. We find a bitter out stuff. In fact, I think I'm a development junkie. But I, I still have a ways to go I think in comparison to you as far as the positivity that you bring on an absolute daily basis. Yeah. A couple of months ago, VIN was doing I think 400 monitor at the malt 100 mile race over the now I want, because this is a rice that didn't go according to plan and you'd spend a freaking long time gone hard out training, sacrificing a hell of a lot to be at this race. Can you walk us through that, that race in what happened?     Speaker 3   18:28 Sure. How you approach that. Yeah, that was exciting and I was, I was super pumped for that race. That was my first a hundred mile attempt. And going into that, you know, I'd run a handful of 50 milers and 50 Ks and I'm still a very much newbie ultra runner. But thanks to you and, and Neil, I got on that starting line. My fitness was on pointed, my mindset was on point, but it was a lease as you know, it was one of the hottest days of the year and about a decade here, back home. So in Vermont, the average temperature including in the morning and at night was about 98 degrees Fahrenheit, which I don't know the conversion of Celsius on your end, but then it got up to 115 degrees during the day. And again, and you know, and I was like, I trained for that. I, you know, based on your recommendations and made sure I trained in the sun and the heat and my family was there, so I was really excited and I was fundraising for Vermont adaptive.     Speaker 3   19:36 So I was pumped. I got bib number seven through fundraising, which is my lucky number. So I was like, approach that starting line. And I, I always make a joke, I'm like, the hardest part of a race is over once you show up for the starting line. Right. And on the hardware people. Some people look at me like I'm crazy and some people laugh, but the race is supposed to be fun for me. As long as you're like, you put in all the hard work and if you can wake up and not hit that snooze button and you know, some of these ultras start at like weird hours and once you get rid of all that pre-race anxiety, it's like boom, okay, let's go. And it was so hot that day. I experienced something I would never even expect to be a race, obstacle size, starting at really bad trench foot just from sweating into my shoes so much.     Speaker 3   20:28 And I changed my socks multiple times. I changed my shoes. You know, I put all the stuff that you're supposed to put on your feet, but it was just so hot. And I remember I got to mile 50 which was the first point I saw my family and my mom's a nurse and going into the race, I told them, Hey guys, make sure, just no matter what, tell me to keep going and you're doing great. So no negativity and my family's not negative, so I didn't have to tell them, but they're also the type. If I was like, Oh, I'm a little tired, they'd be like, Oh, we're proud. Yeah, you can sit down. Like, so I, I got to mile 50, and at that point that had been the furthest I'd ever run. And I felt great and I was holding back a lot cause it was really hot.     Speaker 3   21:15 But I knew my, my foot was getting aggravated. So I took my shoe off and I knew I needed to bandage up my foot and my mom's face just went white. She just looks, cause my foot looks so bad from the trench foot. And she was such a good sport. She didn't say anything and she was like, sweetie, I'm so proud of you and what do you want to eat? And she just, but I could tell by the look on her face as a mom and a nurse, she was like, Oh gosh. So my family bandaged me up. I had a little snack and I kept going. And you know, I felt great. The fitness was still there and everyone was like, Hey, it's your first hundred milers, especially on this course. If you could still run at mile 70 you're in good shape.     Speaker 3   22:01 Very good shape. So I got to mile 70 and I still had plenty of time for cutoffs and I was like, yeah, okay, let's see if I could still run comfortably and I could. But then the next two miles it went downhill at parts where it should have been runnable at least that was basically the mile. Before that I was like, okay, I can still run like a nine 30 mile. Which honestly I wasn't doing the whole race but I can still comfortably run that pace. Then my gate got so messed up from the trench foot and my shin got so swollen like a golf ball that I then limped a mile that should've been runnable in about 25 minutes and then the next mile took me about 34 minutes. This last one can grow, which, which is so frustrating cause all I could think was like, wow, you spent all this time and I, you know, I spent all year training and just visualizing the finish line of that race. And I started to do the math in my head. I go, okay, worst case scenario, if I just lived for the rest of the race in 25 minutes per mile or 30 minutes per mile. And that put me farther than the cutoff, which was like, you know, I did the runner math in my head, which normally I can't do math. But then it became all of a sudden you're like a math genius and you're like, that puts me out like 35 hours in 12 seconds, you know?     Speaker 3   23:24 And I remember dropping out and I told one of the volunteers and he said, man, but you still got, you've got plenty of time for the cutoffs. And I go, well that last two miles basically took me an hour. And he was like, Oh yeah. And I knew at that point it just, and if there wasn't a time cut off me, I probably would've kept calling. But I just knew I had eventually would miss some of those cutoffs. So that was hard. But I was still very proud of myself cause that was the further side ever go and run.     Speaker 2   23:55 And this is the, the the thing that got me about that story cause I mean any, you know, things can go wrong in, in a race and yes you could have carried on and just got to the the time limit and then, and then being shut down by the rice people organizers and there was a hell of a fallout on that race. So many, many people didn't finish that race would normally fell. And there's always reasons and there's always things that can happen and we can't, we cannot control all the variables. What we can control is the preparation we do, which you had done, you're done the work, done the mindset sit stuff you've done, the visualization and the it should happen. Basically you got through, what was it, 88 mile 81 or something. And then you hit, you had to pull it out of the rice.     Speaker 2   24:42 Yeah. So most people that I've worked with that would have just st them into the doldrums, like they would have been hitting the net carb once they actually got over the pain and the physical thing then comes in the a I find out I didn't make it. I sit this huge goal and the disappointment is huge cause you, you've given your heart and soul and all the time that you could have been spending with your friends and your family and or has gone to nothing apparently nothing. But you and I know that they, it's not the case with you. And I was expecting like we've got a couple of days later we go to on the, on the phone or on the, on the call and I was expecting to have to give you a really good pit talk. Call me pulling you out of the doldrums.     Speaker 3   25:27 A nice coach. Yeah.     Speaker 2   25:30 But how I did it late too, I was like, you got on the plane. Yeah, this happened. That happened. But I was still great and it was all SEM and I, and I was just like, Holy hell     Speaker 3   25:42 Yeah. You know, and I think I described it when people are like, then how's the race? And I made it to mile 72 that day and I go, Oh my gosh, it was such an Epic day. And even though I didn't hit my goal, I knew like I know going in that race for next year, like my fitness was there and I felt awesome and you know, base thanks to our training program and just mindset was there. And then I understood it and I kind of laughed a little cause I'm like, Oh, this is why all these ultra runners describe the races and like, Oh, I've had this many starts and this many finishes. And I was just laughing about just, you meet all these interesting people during the day that you're just cheering on and supporting and you might run with some people for half a mile or you might just pass them at an aid station or, you know, I shared with some, even some folks like 10 or 15 miles or even more throughout the course of the day.     Speaker 3   26:38 And it was just so emotional, like taking your whole lifetime of emotions and compressing those into one day, like all the ups and downs in the laughs and you know, and the friendships in the family. And so I think that's why I came out of it really positively. Cause I even though didn't hit my mileage goal to the finish, I still had all these awesome experiences and and a lot of us failed and we failed hard, you know, and it's like I left it all out there and really happy. It's not like I was, I finished, but like half, you know, you hadn't given it a go. They didn't give him my all. I'd definitely give them my all. And I definitely was you know, out there when I, I remember coming to the decision to stop. And I, at first I was like, Aw man, I is, cause I'm not like that.     Speaker 3   27:35 I'm not a quitter at all. But I was like, Nope, I'm good with this. I made it this and, and, and that's hard to do. You know, he's, and I was huge and the next day I took it as a sign, as the proper decision cause we were in line for lunch and I met this nice woman who had had trench foot and like kept pushing through it. And to this day she says she still has like nerve damage from it. And I just took that as a sign from like a higher being, you know? Yeah. Ava and you made the right decision so you can still come back stronger.     Speaker 2   28:08 You know, though, we gotta think about this like we're not, we're not in a war and we don't need to do permanent damage to ourselves. If we, if you were a soldier and you got three to four, you had to carry on in any option, you'll never die. We have the luxury of not being in a silly situation like that. And it's your question like Dave. And so there is no point in an ultra marathon in my opinion now as a mature person to depend on a damage and I've done permanent damage to my body. It's like paying the price or not pulling out when it should have pulled out of races and so are really convenient with like, you know, it's not about being lazy, it's not about giving yourself excuses to pull out. It's about really when it's time to pull out.     Speaker 2   28:52 And I'll tell the story from a friend of mine, Mecca who he and I were in the New Zealand thing together and we're doing 24 hour ricing and we were over in England and we worked so hard, both of us for eight years to qualify as being the national team to go with me for our champs and stuff and the Commonwealth games. And we were over in England and we were racing in two hours into the run. His leg broke like wrist fracture and a broke and he was trying to run with a broken leg, you know, because this is how strong you Monte can get to a point where you can nearly like and he actually had to be dragged off like kicking and screaming. He was not taking off and we had to really calm him down and he was so badly disappointed and he, we'd make the next five years in, in knocked it out of the ballpark and at the age of 50 was 55 when he did his best time ever of 217 Kaizen in 24 hours.     Speaker 2   29:47 Wow. He came back, you know what I mean? But the thing is he was, he was going to be running in doing real massive damage. You know, you shouldn't [inaudible]. And so the moral of the story is yet, remember this is a sport and that we don't have to do, this is not a life on the line and we shouldn't be pushing fit degree. Now when you did do this and you worked through this in your mind and you keep yourself positive, so a lot of people lose their confidence and then they're down on themselves and then everything starts to spiral downwards. And of course you've, you've absolutely naked your body. Like you've used a hole or reserves cause you've just run 72 miles. We're emotionally in a, in a, in a whirlwind anyway cause your body's naked and with you, I just didn't see any of that. I've never not seen that. I've usually seen people go down and really depressed and then it might take two weeks or it might take a year for people to sort of come back out of it. And you like, right. I remember saying to you it was the next week or something that you were like, right, we'll find another race.     Speaker 2   30:54 What's up? And I'm going, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Just let you better come up close and, and, and, and so on. You're like, I haven't done with thing. I want. Oh, another one. Yeah. You did some other rices. The theme just was last weekend. It was the weekend before.     Speaker 3   31:10 Yeah, two, two weeks ago, it seems like months ago.     Speaker 2   31:16 Did you go to us and say, right, I'm gonna do 30 hour rice and I want to hit a hundred mama. Yeah. She wanted that a hundred Mahler. And this is, so this was a course that went around around, so you pick up the story of the event.     Speaker 3   31:30 Yeah. So this was exciting. So I was excited for this one. It was again, local, this was in New Hampshire and they call it the hamster wheel race, but race directors were awesome and I was looking at different ones to pick out and I, you know, to your point, importantly, I did take my much needed rest days. I took almost like that month off and I think I have the mindset after the Vermont, I made sure I signed up for another race, but I made sure I took those rest days and caught up with friends and family and enjoyed social time and just enjoyed, you know, going to the movies. And I think that really helps you rebound too from what I went through in Vermont, at least from me because it gives you something else to look forward to. And then I also knew, I was like, okay, I don't need to go out and crush it this week cause I, I know I'm resting cause I had this other big challenge coming up. But I was excited about New Hampshire cause it was a much more runnable course and remodel, you know, obviously a lot of pills and I, I do not like power hiking. These, I am like the worst power Hager, which I've been trying to work on as an [inaudible].     Speaker 3   32:38 So I was like, yes, I'm going to go. And the weather temperature was totally the opposite of Vermont. So that was exciting. I went out this race fell feeling really good all day. I was probably like leading the race up until about mile 70 and thanks to your great advice coach you said, you know, careful the cold weather can just suck the life out of you. Man. Did it ever, especially the New Hampshire called and, but again, going back to my mindset, people are like, Oh my gosh, it's so cold. And this one had a very high dropout rate because of the cold. But instead of focusing on how cold it was, I was just running and I had just got like a, a new cheap jacket and some new gear from Amazon essentials and instead of focusing on how cold it was, I was just like, Oh man, this gear's great. I'm so glad. You know,     Speaker 2   33:30 It's hard to get a ton of gear and have everything I own.     Speaker 3   33:33 Yeah. I was like, I gotta send that Jeff Bizo as a thank you now cause this stuff is keeping me warm, you know, so, so it was really picking out those things. And you know, I went through the first 50 miles way too quick. I think I went through and about, but I felt good. I went through about eight 40 paces and I had some friends yelling at me like slow down, slow down. And I was teasing them. I go, you're not the boss of me. Like let me run my race. And sure enough, my second half of the race was much slower, but I just told myself, Nope, just keep going. It doesn't matter how fast you go. And I remember when it got made in my body tightened up really bad and really started to slow down and I always say like I, I have a quote from, it's from you, from one of your podcasts. And I, I remember telling myself, Hey, it's okay to be the tractor and not the Ferrari as, as long as I'm just moving forward one step at a time. And that, that definitely got me through with my time at that race. And then once the sun came back out, it was almost like gives you a second life and you have a little breakfast snack or something pushing through that night.     Speaker 2   34:49 There's a couple of points I wanted to bring out the so you pet your, you're still new to the, out to running game on us. So pacing is is still something that you are learning and it's, it's really hard to know like when you're feeling really great and you've done 50 miles and you're still feeling great but your pace is actually, you know, is too high, then you are going to pay the price and you can't imagine it and feel it until you've done maybe half a dozen races. And the me guy, I know, I know what's coming at more lady, so I'm gonna really take it, consumed it. And of course your tendency at the beginning, and I still did this, I just told a is to want to, I'll just get as much behind me as I possibly can and then if the wheels fall off, you know, but you actually causing the wheels to fall off, you know, but it's a, it's a really fine balancing it because even just naturally over the day you start to lose energy like we all do just in daily life. So your, your thoughts are get the most done as fast as possible in the first six hours. When it's more about the consistency and the planning of the, of the speed that you're going in. And then when it comes to cold, absolutely called I written told is way harder than heat to deal with for me personally, at least     Speaker 3   36:04 I think it is for me too. Yeah.     Speaker 2   36:06 Yeah. Cole just takes you will to live because     Speaker 3   36:09 I'll take the suntan.     Speaker 2   36:11 Yeah, it's the suction dry and makes you want to stop just moving and you just want to go to sleep. And that's, that's something that's really, really hard. So we had another couple of athletes doing a 24 hour rides here around one of the lakes here and it was freezing cold, not quite as cold as you, but was cold. And when you've been running all day, you have no glycogen left in your body and basically you're living on fat fuel and protein. Hopefully not breaking down too much muscle of your own muscle, but usually you are. So you've got no glycogens. They actually heat the body. All your reserves are gone. So even when it's hot, you can be freezing and shaking. So when it's really cold, you can be very Simic very, very quickly in a net sets. And we'll do that. So what happened then? You got through the night and then the does some, when the sunrise comes up, isn't it like a new Brie reborn?     Speaker 3   37:05 Oh yeah. And I kept telling myself to the food 0.2 weeks like what you and Neil have taught me. I just made sure I knew because it was cold or my body was burning more calories and I could tell I was much hungrier than, you know, you would be in the heat. And I just kept being like, it's okay, just keep snacking, keep snacking, keep eating, you know, follow my nutrition plan. And I had my nutrition plan laid out, but I was also supplementing that with a lot of aid station food and like real food and soups and stuff. And then I remember the last loop before the sun came up and I was almost falling asleep, like, like running, falling over. And, and I just remember going, Nope, just keep going. And my family had gone home and gone to the the hotel and I, I remember just saw myself, no, you're here to do work, just keep going. And once the daylight comes and we'll be back in the afternoon and you get to see them. So it's like I just told myself, keep going. It doesn't matter how fast keep eating and one foot in front of the other. And that really got me through and then I just kept being like thankful for packing the proper gear in the cold because I was like, Oh man, this is as people. Some people were running by me and, and like singlets and I'm like, how do you aren't a single it right.     Speaker 3   38:29 But yeah, it was,     Speaker 2   38:31 Yeah, you got to the a hundred mile.     Speaker 3   38:34 Yeah, I was pace most of the day for like, you know, at least 120 miles and I made it to the a hundred mile Mark and I still have time left in the race director said, Hey Ben, you got to keep growing. And I felt good up until I got kind of like a second wind at mile 88 and was running strong again. And but then around mile mighty six was a struggle. I think just mentally I knew I was hitting my hundred mile goal goal cause I had one minute to go and I knew it was going to happen and even if I crawled for the next four miles. So once I got to that hundred mile Mark I was like, no, I'm, I'm happy with that. Cause that was     Speaker 2   39:17 What was the goal that was, and this is an interesting point, what do you mean you put in your head is your goal. You will stop it there. So even if you like you could have carried on because you had time to carry on and go over. But in your mind you would actually sit a sit lemon of a hundred and even though, like you'd said, talked about possibly going on and doing maybe 110 or something like that, when you have that backup, go back to come to Priceline. So you have to be really, really careful about what you do as your, as your affects goal because that will be where you get to and not appealing more sort of like,     Speaker 3   39:55 And you're rightly say it absolutely was. My baseline goal was that a hundred mile and my big, I always try and set a big scary goal too. So my big scary goal was like, you know, 120 miles. But then I, my baseline was a hundred miles. But if I, if I had a baseline of a hundred K I would've stopped at a hundred K absolutely. Cause it was so cold and you're just like, but I told myself, Nope, I would, I'm here to do this and just keep it going. And I'm, I'm getting that a hundred miles ago and obviously I didn't have any serious health things like in Vermont. So I was able to continue and I felt good and honestly at points you feel you got to expect, you're going to feel like crap at multiple points in the race and not like a serious injury like your friend that broke his leg.     Speaker 3   40:43 But just knowing that you're like, Oh wow, I'm out of energy. I feel like crap. And once you're, I kind of expect it. I can recognize it, internalize it and then realize that it's going to get better. And that's really important for me because then when it does happen, I tell myself like for mile 70 to like 88 was when I say a struggle bus, Lisa, it was like a complete, but I told myself, I was like, yeah, I came to run this race until the wheels fell off and I was there to, you know, I had been training all year as you know, and I was like, yep, I expected the wheels to fall off so I expected this. So just keep going.     Speaker 2   41:27 You had prepared yourself so well and you'd sit, this next goal was a hundred mile. You wanted to join the a hundred miler club and I have to congratulate you because you know after, after that that problem that the mold that you experienced, it would be very easy to go, well, I'm not going to do anything for an exciting months. Yeah, maybe never come back again because I failed. And I know one of these sort of things that go through his mind and they're all legitimate. But the thing is, you had the resilience to get back up and just, just, what was it? I don't know, eight weeks later I would do another one was probably a little bit short for my liking or, you know, as a turn around time and I would, you know, you were ready for it. And, and I think you, you illustrate so many points that are so important then that's resilience.     Speaker 2   42:17 That's what have you set your goal out to be. That's what it becomes. You just, you learn a lot about pacing. You learn in the first race in Vermont, you learned a lot about, you know, the shit can happen regarding, you know, and you've gotta think like people, even like people are like thinking S's have races where they fail it and don't make it. You know, every ultra marathon runner has times when things go pier shade. I mean I've definitely hit enough of those. And then never, not cause you're heartbroken because you've just speak, you know, I was doing a rice in the, it wasn't even a rice, it was expedition. I know Himalayan is trying to do the world's highest marathon ever recorded a world record. And I'd spent a year and a half in preparing and I'm not good at our student. I'm not good in the cold.     Speaker 2   43:05 It's not my forte. I'm bitter and desserts. But I was with a guy who was a Mountaineer and done neighbor us and stuff and we were on entree and I get up there and after a year and a half or preparation, you know, over $50,000 of money raised from crows, the prime minister on African documentary, you know, like every, it was really big deal. And I get altitude sickness and I couldn't even start like the heartbreak and the disappointment. And this was getting towards the end of my career anyway. And it was just like freaking out, you know? And it ran off the crap out of me. But I had a couple of really good friends and my husband Haisley who just with a to pick up the pieces and it's really important that you have those people that they can channel. Come on, you've got this, we've got you. And we've got yet to blow you to pieces. When you sit big here he goes and then you fail at them. What I want you to understand is hurts, but you are someone who's pushing the limits. You're an ambitious person that's reaching for the stars and you cannot control all the variables.     Speaker 2   44:14 So if I don't think any, I just want you to wrap up. We've got to wrap up now. We've got a meeting coming up. We're going to get to our technical stuff. So we've been to get onto there, but then I just want to leave the last week to you. Tell us what you want to get across to people listening to this who are doing the first five K two who are just starting out on running. Who or who had aiming for an ultra marathon. Tell us what you want to get across.     Speaker 3   44:39 Yeah, I want to add it. This leads right to your point that you just brought up, Lisa too, that these things happen and everything happens for a reason and you're much more capable than you think you are. So you might be thinking right now it's all of those failures and those successes I think all provide a great frame of reference. So someone right now might be training for their first five K and say, Oh man, I'm struggling to break 32 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever their time goal might be. But then they might look back a year from now and be like, wow, now I'm running 25 minutes with ease. And remember when, you know, I was really struggling. So it's off frame of reference. So even those, those struggles that you go through and they really help you become a better person to kind of get the job done that you need to be, to be able to, you know, not just run these races and push the limits, but it's really a metaphor for life.     Speaker 3   45:37 Right. And I think I've learned so much from that. And at the time it might seem disappointing or it might seem difficult, but then when you look back and you're like, wow, look at the person I've become now because I've challenged myself and I've gone through those successes and pushed my limits to hit those goals and I might've hit a lot of them and I might've failed at some of them. But when you look back a year from now or even longer, it becomes like, wow, those help make me the person that I am today. And I can certainly say that for myself from my running career, you know, my business career going through like my broken back, I'd probably never would've found ultra running. I wouldn't have been introduced to you. You know? So everything really happens for a reason, to the development of who you are as a person. And if you look at it that way, I think you can be totally unstoppable with whatever you say your minds who, right?     Speaker 2   46:35 Definitely unstoppable than formulary. Yeah.     Speaker 3   46:38 Oh thanks Karen.     Speaker 2   46:41 Absolutely. Relentlessly positive. You're a real poster boy for the personal development side of things. And then if you work really hard on your mindset, you can change your own personality and you can become a stronger, better, more positive, happy person. You've certainly shown me a thing or two over the last year because, you know, like with our business side of things you know, ven really has changed their whole dynamic and the, our company because he brings a, a super amount of technical knowledge to the whole, to the whole business which we desperately needed. But he also brings when things don't go wrong, because by the same token as things go wrong and ultra marathon running, things go wrong in business. And when we, you know, we've been, you know, months preparing for a launch or months doing all of this sort of, you know, technical staff and then crickets, nobody got.     Speaker 2   47:33 And we're like, and we want to give up. And then it's like, well, no, we'll just try this other thing and we'll go down this track and we will learn, you know, he's relentlessly positive in every aspect of his life and that has been so valuable to us in our company. And is an escalate. It just really shows what you can achieve when you have this incredible mindset. So Venice, awesome. Having on the team. Thank you for sharing your, your story today with everyone from running hot. Any last things, any last words, Mike, before we get onto the actual words tonight? No, I think, you know, just what we said and I, I would encourage everyone to really at least listen to what Lisa and Neil put out and you know, I'm constantly learning from you weekly research. I really appreciate it.     Speaker 2   48:18 And yeah, just keep pushing forward team and take those wins and take those, you know, those use those losses to his growth opportunities. I mean that's a good place to stop. Thank you very much. Vin, if you want to reach out to Vin, we can, they find you on Instagram and Facebook and all that good stuff. Yeah, you can find me at Vin Framularo. So my first name, V I N and M, last name F R a M U. L. a. R. O. I'm on Facebook, Instagram. You could even email me vin@framularo.com or even reach out through running hot page and we'll put on the show notes because Vin if anybody needs help with anything technical and computers as far as things like sales funnels and click funnels and pretty much everything technical I don't really like to share you because you're too good to go. If anyone wants help, he's man. So thanks very much and we'll get onto our work now. Excellent. Thanks Steve. Have a great day.     Speaker 1   49:22 That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com           *The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.*

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In this interview Lisa Tamati speaks with Lisa Whiteman - Lisa's background is in biological health science, with a specialty in the biomechanics of human motion, and she worked in private practice sports and rehabilitation for over 20yrs. Lisa also is at the cutting edge of research related to human function and performance and is working on a new running tech device call "Run Vibe" which is set to help runners improve their performance through this biofeedback device. Both Lisa's discuss the shortcomings in the health sector, the future of health and fitness, running biomechanics and much more.
Lisa is also an experienced entrepreneur who has grown start-ups, turned around failing businesses,
bought and sold businesses, mentored business owners, employed staff, and worked from the coal face of health care to the boardroom of private-sector education. Developing dynamic leaders through instilling continued learning, self-awareness and self-improvement form a large part of Lisa's current role and she believes strongly in the power of communication, the power of connection; and the power of relationships, in business and in life. Lisa works with organisations and individuals to improve wellbeing and performance by distilling the science and research in ways that are meaningful and achieve positive outcomes. You can learn more about Lisa's Podiatry Group which has 8 branches throughout NZ at www.respod.co.nz and follow Lisa's blog at https://thebeingproject.nz/ where Lisa discusses everything health, wellness, science and whatever is taking her interest at the moment. We would like to thank our sponsors

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You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of interview

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:10)
Well how everybody to tell somebody here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again with me this week. I have another fantastic guest that I've managed to meet this week. I was at a woman's conference in Wellington and I met some fantastic ladies down the, a shout out to everyone who was at the woman's leadership conference. It was an absolute awesome to be down there and to be amongst amazing ladies in one of the ladies that I got talking to afterwards is Lisa Whiteman. So welcome to the show Lisa. Thanks Lisa licensee today. Now Lisa is, I'm not even going to say what she is cause she actually got such a broad, so I'm going to hear to her a broad area of interest. And, and so many projects that she's working on that I thought would be really beneficial for my audience today to hear from these tourniquet who type on us on a few different things. So at least you're in Wellington now by trade or by profession or whatever you wanna call it. You're a podiatrist. You started your journey, but you've also gone into a number of other areas. And Lisa said, can you just give us a brief overview of what the does that you do?

Speaker 3: (01:19)
Sure. it's a really difficult question to answer, Lisa and I always struggle, I need a better elevator pitch around this. So, so my day to day work, my day to day role I look after an umbrella organization to support podiatry business owners, to have both successful businesses but also to drive clinical excellence in shitty expertise. So we at nationwide the group is called resonance. It's reasonably podiatry group and there's a reason why resonance comes up a lot. And and a number of my, my brands, CF, so I manage businesses and I manage clinical outcomes. And that's my day to day. Okay. As a segue from that, I also do quite a bit of work in leadership and development in other sectors. Areas is diverse as the music industry. So I've worked with musician and purposeness. And another business I work with and the Bay of plenty is around positive reinforcement training for horses.

Speaker 3: (02:30)
Well, it's a different way. So this is another, another business and quite a unique and a unique skill set. So I work on businesses, I work in leadership and I have a passion for noticing life and I like to notice with intent. Yeah. I don't want to live life just going through the motions. So noticing has brought me to have a blog and it's called the being project. And my blog there is just a talk about stuff. It is the versus, you know, pressure or stress or pain or relationships or communication. The only areas, I mean, I guess, yeah, it is. It's about, I'm challenging myself to intentfully live my life every single day. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: (03:26)
Yeah, absolutely. And in whatever area you're interested in, that's where you go down the rabbit hole on that area.

Speaker 3: (03:32)
And generally, Lisa, it's the things that pop out of a conversation. So you can guarantee you watch my blog over the next week or two. Yep. Our conversation. Well yeah, because you will spark a need for me to write something

Speaker 2: (03:47)
That's, that's been fantastic. And in laser and I both, we've, we've just been talking before we got on this recording, we're internal students and we're always looking for what is the latest and, and newest in the app with the science. And Lisa has also a biomechanic she's got some other stuff that she's going to add in too. You just got a charity as well. But let's talk a little bit about your bio mechanics side of things because obviously a lot of the people that listen to my show runners so tell us a little bit about, you buy a mechanic background and what you do there.

Speaker 3: (04:20)
So as a, as a podiatrist, obviously we're interested in gate, so can gate running gate. And I found I had a, I've always off physics, so the physics of motion and leavers. And so it was a natural place for me to specialize in, gravitate through my clinical Korea. So rehabbing runners from injury on one side and then more recently looking at how we can improve performance in runners. So esteemed the so that they can achieve the goals that they want without them being broken. Cause you know, the running statistics are huge. We're going to have 80% of our run as in any 12 months I'd go into heaven running injury. Yeah. So how do we navigate through those things? So I spend a lot of talks being too, a lot of time learning both bio mechanics function can emetics kinetics, you know, how we run, how we move and then the science of injury. So but looking at the fact that not only are we addictable from a neurology perspective or neuroplastic, we're also bioplastic out tissues have the ability to read, generate, and to get stronger. It's how we find they, for an athlete, that sweet spot, we are getting stronger, but before they're going to break. Yeah. So I'm fascinated and that area of potential

Speaker 2: (05:46)
It's, and that's for us to, as coaches is a really fine line between over training and your athletes breaking down and optimal performance. Exactly.

Speaker 3: (05:58)
And it's a really, so you've got a can we talk about the, the, the, the tone if you like, of that you were working on the running bribe. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Just this is something that's cutting edge and new people. So it's coming, it's not yet on the market, but this is what's coming. I've been, I've been working for the last five years, becoming up five years on a project review, research and development about looking at whether we can pick out markers in someone's running gait. So specific metrics in the running gate that put together can give us a really accurate indication of the performance. So that's the power that producing and the efficiency at boundary shifts in body forward. So that's what I've been working on. And we've gone through pilots.

Speaker 3: (06:51)
We've done pilot done trials and pilots studies and we have a patient we've done a patient and our next step is to go to commercialization. So it's something the goal was, is a lot of complicated metrics out in the Elisa. And the really had to understand, and I really hot right as it is, is great. It's nice and simple. We can understand that you start adding layers and layers and layers to that. It can be overwhelming for the athlete. So every girl was something really, some people that looked at the ability for you to take your body and efficiently move it forward. Yep. And not so, so we're talking about your gait and your, so your, your Tommy, your feet on the ground, your ground resistance, your cadence, not when, what we're not talking about is those specific pieces of form.

Speaker 3: (07:47)
So what we know is that the metrics that we put weight that we gained from the sensor, we can alter those by things like increasing Hep extinction or increasing the affliction. So what we wanted, and I guess I often call it, we want the best, the most bang for our buck. Meaning we want one number that to alter it or to improve it, he'll base in three simple changes that you'll need to make. So it could be increased cadence. It could be a little bit more high steeper purge. It could be a little bit more hip extinction. It could be a little bit of a tweak to the position of the pelvis. But rather than having to measure those things, measuring the output of those things, one metric which is life a lot easier and simpler. So you know, as running coaches, we're obviously very interested in this because it's very hard to, we have a set of rules that we all take, you know, in regards to bio mechanics, mechanics and what what constitutes and this changes obviously, because don't getting your research

Speaker 2: (08:56)
All the time, as you will know. So we can generally say that, you know high cadence as a, as a beta wide run and we don't want to be planting our legs in the ground. And we want to keep our hips stable and things like this. But this is going beyond that, the mechanics of that and looking at this one metric which will tell you whether you're approving the force forward or not.

Speaker 3: (09:19)
Yup. Exactly that. So rather than the, so for you, you'd probably still do that stuff. Yeah. But you do it exactly that we know these things. We know that cadence is important. We know ground contact time is important. What we want to achieve is that runners out there practicing this new technique that you may have guided them through and they want immediate instant feedback that they are achieving that step-by-step-by-step and that's our goal. We know that gait and this is on the science. We know that gait retraining is definitely doable. Yeah. We know that gate retraining takes a minimum of 12 weeks and then it has to be continuously churned until it becomes muscle memory. So I would team decide to my X lights. It's going to take you a year to be able to confidently say you've altered your gait in a month. That, imagine if you had feedback that you were on task and your training runs, you knew that you could hold it for five K but you can't hold it for team. What do we need to do in the gym to improve your, you capacitate to that, that load. Yeah. He know how you're going. So that's what we're, we're that's what we're working on. That's very exciting. And talking about it. I get re invigorated.

Speaker 2: (10:41)
Yeah. I hate [inaudible] and it's a long process to get something like this to market. So then ultra-marathon in itself. But this is coming in. So people watch out for this in the, in the, in the hopefully near future. What is now you've got podiatrists all through the country in some of those do video gait analysis or do they do all, do live gait analysis in the businesses? Can we, so

Speaker 3: (11:12)
With so with the reason it's group, we have, everyone does video, gait analysis analysis the ones that specialize more in that running a running analysis or it could even be running for other sport. So we see, you know, a lot of the footballers love rugby. Or the netball is, we use three different forms of gait analysis. One we do mobile motion capture, so that's using a mobile, a HD camera and it can be on the field, on the court. So you're looking at, you might be looking at landing skills or you might be looking at type of skills or it may be a particular thing you want to assist, not just running. And then we do dual camera today. Video capture using treadmill. So we've got two cameras, one at the back when it's side. So we're doing that and there's a really good Bella to tape between or correlation between running on the road and running on a treadmill. So the difference in kinematics is very, very minor. We know the science of that, so things that works well and the food that we do, which is unique for new Zealanders. We do three D, I'm both running and walking Gates. So we use a three D capture camera yup. That plots all the points, creates an avatar and looks at what's loading correctly, what's not loading correctly. So that's really unique and we're the only clinics in the country to be using three D motion capture.

Speaker 2: (12:41)
I will be able to [inaudible] we can talk afterwards about hooking us up with it so that we can talk to, I mean we do, we just about to which video analysis, like online, but the analysis, but head's got its limitations. You know, we can look at the big areas of change that we can improve upon, but it's not looking three D it's not, you know, doing the stuff that you were doing. So perhaps we can workout something after this conversation or I at least the ones in New Zealand. Now let's change tech a bit, a little bit. So you've got a, obviously a very big science background and by mechanics you've also got a charity that you're involved in that is, tell us a little bit about that one.

Speaker 3: (13:24)
So today's future is the name of the charity and today's future is an education based charity to support and facilitate a pathway a learning pathway through gifted in neuro diverse young people. So we've particularly focusing on young people between the ages of 14 and 24. And we know that those are critical. If you don't fit, if you don't fit into society or you feel you don't fit into school, which is a big thing. And you might struggle with relationships. This is the time we have, we see a rise in anxiety and depression and really concerning and often these young people, these young adults are functioning, are really high level academically. Yeah. Don't have a peer group to relate to. They often don't relate well to be a thorough in their own peer group. And we find a lot of them will shut down.

Speaker 3: (14:23)
So we lose this potential for the future. And I have a strong belief that it's our kids have now that hold the case to LC mutual survival. So what today's future wants to do is to nurture these kids through into adult hood. So we have openly lifelong learners who have the courage and it's mental fortitude, laser, the stuff you work on day in and day. I mean to fortitude, to be able to face whatever the future is to throw at us in this planet. It's small, it's growing. And we have resource issues like every other small business organization. We just want to try and make a difference.

Speaker 2: (15:09)
Trauma can definitely lead to individual kids' lives. So, you know, so these are some of the gifted kids but who have maybe a certain learning difficulties or difficulties fitting in with the groups in your peer groups than in some sort of social difficulties. So that's a really good thing. So you've got a very, very diverse background and I know we were talking earlier about your life as well and you've got a very diverse background. You've had a brain injury, so we can make that. I have a brain injury and talking about rehabilitation, you know, we obviously I used to hit my story with mum. Do you want to share like your insights on, on your journey with them?

Speaker 3: (15:50)
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm happy to and I'm reasonably new as well in, in, in this journey. So I three years ago I unfortunately fell off my horse, which wasn't ideal and broke my back. So I broke 'em T 12, L one and L two. And I did what's called a retropulsion burst fracture of T 12, which is where the part of the, the fracture ends up in the spinal cavity, in the spinal column. Wow. You don't need the spinal nerves. And it was really unfortunate in amongst all of that, I hit the Dick with my head and it's team relay. People recover really well from a single episode head injury. So I was unconscious for a very short period of time. I was a really low risk patient. The thing that no one asked is, have you had a head injury before? This was my food. He didn't drink. Now you would know from probably your research that that puts me in a completely different camp. I should've been looked after quite differently than I was. So I was sent home from hospital after a week and a spinal brace from my chin to my butt and I was a net for 16 weeks. I didn't have surgery because I chose not to. Yup. And my Beck's pretty damn good. As long as I say strong and my cool Lisa.

Speaker 2: (17:15)
Exactly. Yes. Thanks. So did you hear that everybody, if you've got a bad back, you need to have a strong core that's at the end. Don't necessarily yet jump into the operation side of it so quickly.

Speaker 3: (17:30)
Well, it's interesting because again, coming from, I'm just a little secret here. Coming from the sports medicine, the Australasian sports medicine and science conference, he was significant. Talk about don't operate. Yeah. Avoid and not just a spinal arthritis, knee arthritis foot. The pain that we are experiencing. I have a passion for pain science. The pain that we experience is not due to tissue damage. The pain we experience is due to the perception of our central nervous system around how safe we are or not. So pain is our response to a feeling of not being safe. And it can be heightened by fear. Fear heightens pain. The longer you've had pain, the least it is linked to tissue.

Speaker 2: (18:26)
Wow. So the chronic pain is actually it's a more of a a side. Yup. Yup,

Speaker 3: (18:34)
Yep. It's more, and I'm in around belief systems. So if somebody takes the pain to the body part, like I broke my back, I have back pain. If I believe that I'll continue to have pain. Yup. I understand that actually my back's fine and I'm strong. Then my pain will reduce and I have to tell you this way story. So what they did, and this is on the research, what they did is they used VR. So part of the hip seat on and head. Somebody look at themselves with this really strong back to broad shot, beautifully muscles. So it was their bag that was their body, but it was, it was strong Apple. And they asked them to do stuff and they did what they were asked to do with the strong back. Then they gave them this really weeding Bodie week hunch, looking back in, ask them to repeat the same tasks. They couldn't, they couldn't lift the weight. They didn't have the mobility, they were stiffer. This is how much the mind, the crux of everything we do,

Speaker 2: (19:41)
Of everything we do. And when we, when we diagnose and when we get a label and we have a back injury and we think with powerless to do anything. Have you heard of the work of dr Joe Dispenza? How? Okay, so he's amazing. I mean, he healed his own back through visualization. I'm talking about, I don't know how many weeks was that? 16 weeks or something. And now he teaches about the belief. Have you also heard about Dr. Bruce Lipton? Really everything of his biology of belief. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm all over there and you're by phone and say why I tips. So people basically what, what these two doctors, dr Joe Dispenza, who I highly recommend you go and search out, Dr. Bruce Lipton, who I've mentioned a couple of times on this podcast, and looking at the biology of belief. So what did you believe in? You put in your mind carries through into your body in a fix your actual physical body. And this is why it's so important that we're not telling ourselves we're going to be sick. We are weak. We have this repeatedly and over and over again. Because you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy basically.

Speaker 3: (20:46)
Exactly. And when we're talking

Speaker 2: (20:48)
About that it does, it hit and the mind filters through the body. It changes not just the, that, the structure that we think of like our bones and our muscles. It changes the structure of every single cell. No, it's down to the, it's down to more Kyla. And I think that that's the most mind blowing thing with Joe's work. The whole thing around VI visualization gain and the, this is wonderful. It's coming in through the science. The reels, the idea that's coming into college, they talk about the visualization is priming the brain for success. Yup. It's critical. It's a critical way of reducing the pain. People are in this critical for performance. Totally. I mean, I've, I've preached this for a long time as an athlete preparing for big races. That visualization is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle. I had a, a guy actually was on my podcast last week, met script and who, who a few weeks before the event had an injury and he was training for a hundred K and it was in a very bad space mentally at any, you know, Sydney walls reached out for help.

Speaker 2: (21:58)
And I didn't spend time working on his injury, his fault. You know, Neil dealt with it for business. We could, but he wasn't going to be able to train much up until we had been. And he was going to have to go in blind and, and the train to say. So we spent the time concentrating on his mentality and the way he approached it and strengthening his mind and the, the just, you know, within 48 hours, the shift that his mindset was huge. And suffice to say he went on and even though he hadn't been able to try and hit a fantastic race, not that out of the ballpark because he went in with a strong mindset because you went in with the belief that he could do it rather than going in, which is what we all tend to do. I've had an injury, things haven't gone to plan, therefore I'm not going to be able to do it and leave it home standing on the start line. I don't believe I can actually do it. And of course you're right. You believe as Henry Ford saying, I believe you can or you can't, then you're right.

Speaker 3: (22:54)
Okay. And this is why we put so much. And you know, my husband's a does iron man and triathlon and if you look at that lead up, they do the lead up, they do the big, big, big training days and then weeks and then they have the rest week. And then what does everyone do? I miss drop into nutrition stuff here, Lisa. They all go out and have pasta party. It's terrible. I just don't know how in this day and age, when we know so much about nutrition, is it that it's almost like it's so instilled in a bit in our culture, even if it makes no sense in the science,

Speaker 2: (23:33)
But used to make seeds so that yeah, we used to think load up with carbs. You know, you blockage on the spot cause up to the top, but you loading it with shit, carbs and probably stuff that you wouldn't normally, so then you'd double distressing your body. And then you're overloading it. So we don't get out our athletes at all to carb low. We, we want them to be on good, healthy nutrition and it depends and we work on the epigenetic side of it. If they do that, that program, if we can fit knowledge available and then we get them just to eat a little bit more and hydrate a little bit more in dry sleeper. That'll get more in the preparation and focus on the meditation. Focus on the breathing techniques, lowering the stress levels low, which CLIA,

Speaker 3: (24:17)
And that all lowers the inflammation, right?

Speaker 2: (24:20)
No, only the, the this, this whole mind, body connection, the home, you know, it's not just nutrition, it's not just meditation, it's not just training, it's this combined multipronged approach that really leads to ultimate success and long longevity in the sport as well.

Speaker 3: (24:37)
And even if we take that out of the sport, and I guess where I started that my, my big goal, my, my, my daily approach to life is, is I'm noticing stuff, noticing everything with intent and if we stop going through life half asleep, as most of us do, you know, statistics or die or we've got 85% of people hate their job based on a 2018 Gallup Gallup poll on average. It's, what is it, a 5.2 hours per day watching telly and four hours on social media as the average. Wow. You go to work for eight hours hating what you do, you traveled there and back. You spend the next nine hours either on social or watching television, you have to eat and sleep. That's a lot. That becomes a life. Yeah. And I think that our approach to our, I'm hoping repo if we can approach how we're running our life and the same way with the same intent fullness as we approach our running isn't going to get better.

Speaker 2: (25:41)
Yes. Yeah. And, and this is again going back to dr Joan in the leptin, they talk about the power of the subconscious mind that it's, you know, runs 95% of our day up to 99%. In other words, we're running on autopilot. You know, when you're driving home and you're listening to music and singing, you actually doing the singing, maybe consciously, but you're driving it subconsciously and you know, it's great because it means we can do things automatic and it's easier. We don't have to overthink it. And when we're training in developing a ritual, that's why it's hard at the beginning to develop a habit because we haven't got those groups in their brain where it's all subconsciously run. By the same token, they, that subconscious controls our behavior to a degree that we not aware of where their behaviors come from. So we've got this programming that we've had since childhood usually, or something that's happened traumatically and it's got into our programming.

Speaker 2: (26:38)
You're useless. You're not able to run your, to, you're always fed you or whatever it is. You can't speak, you're, you know, you're not, you're not going to be good at this. Whatever that programming was at that time, that's now sitting in your subconscious and you can read all the personal development books you want and you can consciously try and work on this. But if the subconscious program is running its own ship, you're fighting against David versus Goliath. It's such a powerful force. And this is why going in doing the meditation, doing self hypnosis, doing the co, you know, definitely doing the conscious exercises as well, the affirmations and the visualization and all that sort of stuff. But trying to go in and not let it subconscious just run, ride on its own without any, I'm doing that thought again that I don't want to do. You know, and I'm, I'm constantly working on my own sets of behavior. You know, I get very I've got a team Pat and I get really angry and frustrated at the computer mostly. And now I'm trying and a lot saying I'm perfect and [inaudible] straight to the main donation. When I feel that frustration and they want to Chuck it out the window, I'm damaging myself. When I'm feeling that stress, I'm damaging myself. So I try and get up and like try and leave it for five. Yup.

Speaker 3: (27:57)
And I think one of the really important things via, and we know it's critical and again, it's in the science we had designed, we must move on. I'm reading a fascinating book. The name is escaping me, but we can talk about it another time. Which looks at the connection between us becoming bipedal is never walking on two legs as organisms as opposed to being on four. And the connection between that and our consciousness developing and our cognitive development and the talking about how it's in so much science. If you, if you go and Google movement movement as medicine, we have to move. So when you get frustrated with your computer, nothing to do with the computer. But I beat show at least some of it as a smidgen that listen,

Speaker 2: (28:47)
Yes, a deadly. And I don't think it's just me, although I'm probably an extreme case of counselors though. But I, we know, and this is when I, something I miss now that I'm not doing the long distance running for example. And my, my business partner and coach Neil wakes up, pointed out this to me one day. He said, I see I'm really frustrated at the moment. I'm feeling really down and you know, and I've got all these tools to deal with it. The, where's it coming from? He said, we used to have hours running and that was time for your brain to sort stuff out and meditate it away and you are in motion all the time. And it gave you just your, your brain time to process everything. You don't have that now you're going from one, you know, computer job to another computer job to another computer job to working with mum to, you know, and it's just don't have that it's face in that time.

Speaker 3: (29:42)
It does. So it's, so movement is, it's, it's great for mental health. It's also exceptionally good for creativity. So we are creative brain finding novel solutions, novel outcomes, problem solving in our life happens far better when we're moving than when we're still, the book is called perfect motion [inaudible] motion. It's, it's very good. And it comes from a very strong science and you know, historical and scientific basis. It's very, very good. So movement is key. Movement is medicine movement and when we're injured, can I just jump back to X some and whether it's escalates or, yup, my injuries, whatever. Movement is the only way to rehabilitate. In the old days. If you sprained your ankle, you tweaked to knee. What did they do? Mobilized. You stop being active and mobilizing does not do anything to heal tissues, tissues here with movement. Now, sometimes we might put a patient in a moon boat, but we're putting them in the moment so they can keep emulating, keep moving, keep walking. And they will give them some limited exercises to start that strengthening happening or rehabilitation happening. But to risk something that cause it sore is the worst thing you could possibly do.

Speaker 2: (31:12)
Yeah. Now this is a really know this is an interesting and dangerous piece of knock off. Got the opposite problem. Like selfishly I'll ask you a question. I've got an injury with plantar fasciitis and I keep running and I do all the foam rolling and the foot release and the sayings and the what's the waivers and you know, then they help. But I keep running cause they can't stop run it cause I'm addicted to them up to, to training. Is that bad in which zone? Like, or is this a good thing and I'm, it's okay to keep, I mean, pushing, in other words, pushing through injuries, running, it's

Speaker 3: (31:52)
Through injuries. Well, it depends, doesn't it? It depends on is this, this, this safe, that safety buffer between your self protecting. So therefore you're not, you, you don't, you could actually do a little bit more. You're not going to break these, that safety barrier. And then at the top is the point that you're going to break. Now if you it decide to keep on going to the point of breaking, it's not gonna turn out well for you. Yeah. So that's knowing where you are in the middle of that. So I'd be asking you a few questions now. Plantar heel pain, we call it chronic plantar heel pain these days or chronic plantar heel pain syndrome. We don't use plantar fasciitis anymore because firstly itis means and there was no inflammation to be found of the plantar fascia. Right? So we've changed the same with like Achilles tendinitis gone.

Speaker 3: (32:50)
It's, it's Achilles tendinopathy cause there is no inflammation. So anyway, those just changes in our medical world. So it's the most caught heel pain. Chronic plantar heel pain is the most common injury that we see at any one time with 15% of the adult population suffering from it. At any one time. So the things, the questions that I would be asking you with these things, like have you got first stick pain in the morning when you first get out of bed, how many steps does it take for that pain to reduce or probably four minutes and five minutes of walking around the Hills. Yup. And then it reduces right down again. That's right. And then it's, if you sit at your computer and get up, does it feel erupt again? Yes, it does. It does. And if you go for a run, does it get worse? No, I can cope with it. That's the dangerous thing. Of course, when I'm warmed up

Speaker 2: (33:45)
I can, I don't feel it as bad. And so I think I'm lots of add. So I keep training and then again, the next morning I wake up again. I'm a negative.

Speaker 3: (33:53)
Okay. What do you wear on your feet during the day at home? I'm just at home. Right usually. Yup. So the first thing, listening to your story, and I haven't examined, you know, because I'm not sitting with you. First thing I would do would be to suggest we changed that one sector that you have. And I probably suggest something, I don't want to do a brand push here, but something like a also heel gender or something like that that has a contoured sole and a slightly flicker field to forefoot and that you don't do anything, be a foot. Okay. So it's a bit like

Speaker 2: (34:30)
Kelly's really we shouldn't if you've got an Achilles' don't run around before.

Speaker 3: (34:34)
Yeah cause the Kellys the interesting thing is there was the Achilles in the plant, that plant of first year runs from the heel to your toes underneath your foot and the Achilles that runs from your calf to your heel to function together. Yes. It's like a cradling. Yup. Right. So you should be doing your calf work. Yeah. Heel pain. So that's good. Yup. So all I want to do is change the forces on that bitch. That fascia. Yup. Alter those forces at the points that you normally in pain. Let's see what it does to your pain. Remembering that pain and tissue damage and not always exactly correlated. So I'd start with that one thing only and changing. Now I've got a free tip. Thanks for that. Yeah. And like you said, you posted was the science is changing all

Speaker 2: (35:24)
The time. Like we've been teaching, you know certain things play into the shadows and we all know that that does take a while to heal. It does take its time. But it's a pain in the ass, you know, and there's so many. We try and avoid injury obviously as much as we can. So and it's one of the most common things that we see coming up and he began to gain. So I'll try that. I will not go around bare feet anymore or actually at least put some shoes on when I'm at just walking around the house even. No, no, no. That works for the Achilles cause you know, when you in, when people are going from a cushioned shoe to a zero drop show, that's when we often see athletes get problems as well.

Speaker 3: (36:08)
Again, they can adapt. It's balancing out in that comfort and that little safety zone. Yes, we're, we're, how am I going to build the tolerance to new load without breaking them? And that is the challenge of every trainer out there.

Speaker 2: (36:23)
Yup. This is under training. We did talk briefly, we'll have to wrap up in a minute, but the buyer plasticity thing, we were talking before we got on this call recording about the fact that different people have abilities to withstand different amounts of pain in regards to whether the body with the dead individual thinks hurting themselves or not. And I said to you, I know that in my life, in through lots and lots and lots of training, I could get to a point where I nearly killed myself a few times because I would ignore my body's signs and signals to the point of, of stupidness looking bag. But, and, and I seek you by the same token, now that I'm haven't been doing super long stuff for a couple of years, that horizon of variability to go and push out to that level is also gone. But you reconnect via plasticity. Once you've got it, you have it will come back quicker.

Speaker 3: (37:20)
It w and, and the science is telling us, and this is recent, this is from last week's conference. The science is telling us that if we get young people active and moving and resilient and building tissues when they're younger, even if they spend, you know, 10 years sedentary and don't do anything, their ability to return to that is fun. It's easier and faster than someone who's never done that when, when they were younger. So we're starting from scratch. So Bioplast as a T is around the fact that our tissues are strong, we have huge ability. And one of the things I found fascinating we were talking about the league bone, the tibia. This was at the conference, the tibia, all the a runner. This is a hockey player and this is the thing that your guys may find really interesting. So bones, a deck with load.

Speaker 3: (38:16)
We all know that, right? So the more you load, and we know that people who run have higher bone density than people that are seen in tree. Okay. What I didn't know and I learned last week is that if we look at the shape, if we do a cross section of a tibia of a runner, the tibia will be from to back elongated. So it'll be long front to back and quite narrow. Yup. If you do the same thing with a hockey player, so cross section of a hockey players tibia, it will be the bone. This is the bone. The bone will be wider. Wow. As well as long. So what that suggests that the, and this is what they were talking about is that multidirectional exercise, stop, stop, push forward site. Yup. That is dynamic and high frequency is the best protection from, from bone injuries and bone injuries.

Speaker 3: (39:17)
Decreases the risk of stress fractures is one of them. Now you've talked about having heel pain. The other biggie in our runners is what we call medial tibial stress syndrome. Shin splints. Yup. Okay. Part of that is quite possibly because we're not doing enough multi directional work to build that within the bone would be going in one direction. So that was brand new to me. Thanks to sports medicine Australasia conference. So movement variability the question they asked of us to ask about our patients or about in your case, the people that you're training, can you do the same thing in different ways? So I try and avoid that. This is where we talk about mix up your shows. I talk about in my work with different shows and run on different terrains. Wow. It's awesome as well as cross training. So this is a model that is much more than this.

Speaker 2: (40:13)
There's some real deems eye for us to take away and I'll, what I'll do is I'll get you back on laser and we will go but more of a deep dive and the next time that we do this all those chips and injury prevention side of it if you wouldn't mind you're gonna yeah, we're going to have to wrap it up for the day, Lisa. But you have been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much. Now I'm going to link in the show notes to your group, your website. I'm also your charity. And where can people find you on like Facebook or Instagram and that type of thing lists.

Speaker 3: (40:45)
If it's around the bio mechanical side. So just find me through business but I a tree, that's that, that's the easiest way to find me there. And otherwise probably the links that you gotta use the being project as well, there is ways to hook up with me through that as well.

Speaker 2: (41:03)
Awesome. No, you're fantastic when they said thank you very much for being on the show today. We really appreciate all your insights and your enthusiasm for this topic and I'm cheering the latest and science and watch out for that. What does it running vibe, run vibe, run vibe, run vibe. Watch out for that in the future guys. And I'm checking it out when it comes on the market.

Speaker 3: (41:23)
Thanks Lisa.

Speaker 1: (41:25)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Emily Miazga is a 3 x winner of the Coast to Coast World multisport champion she is also a clinical nutritionist and found of "Em's Power Cookies" - a range of nutritious and delicious Cookies, Bars, Power Bites, they also sell Hemp Protein Cookies!

In this episode Canadian born Emily shares how she got into multisport and just what it took to win the coveted Coast to Coast race three times and what she learnt about herself along the way. How she used her insights as an athlete to help power her business dreams and what life after competitive sport looks like. She shares her philosphies on pushing through sporting and life obstacles and how she managed to keep her mind on track during the toughest of her races. We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

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All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

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You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of interview

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by www.lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:13)
Well, hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits is fantastic to have you all back again. I'm super excited to have you. And today we have a very special guests. I have Emily Miazga and if you don't know who Emily is, you probably know who famous cookies, which are IMS power cockies. So I'm sure a lot of you are going, Oh yes, I know in South of his well him is now two based on pushing the limits. Welcome to the show, Emily, how are you?

Speaker 3: (00:39)
Hi Lisa. I'm really good. Thanks for having me on. It's, it's a real pleasure.

Speaker 2: (00:43)
Well that's, it's super exciting to have you on. We actually had a case sorry, a fan of the show, write to me and say, can you please have Emily on? And she's so evoke and I want to hear her talk. So I reached out to Emily and who we are today.

Speaker 3: (01:00)
Awesome. Thankfully I'm too for that. It's very cool. And we finally got gotten here, so now it's very, very cool. I love it when a good plan comes together.

Speaker 2: (01:08)
Took us about three months, but we did get there.

Speaker 3: (01:11)
Absolutely.

Speaker 2: (01:13)
Now Emily is a Canadian born but she's living in New Zealand and Emily is famous for her Em's cookie. So let's go there for a stylist. Before we get into your athletic career, you've been an amazing athlete, but you have cookies. What are the, what are these about?

Speaker 3: (01:30)
Oh my cookies. I should've had one here with me. I'll have to run, get some kitchen. But my, my power cookies, it's quite funny. I had been making them since I was a little kid growing up in Canada because in Canada we just love, you know, it's like cookies are really the thing to do. And I was a sporty kid, I was always running and I was always into nutrition as well. Like I ended up studying dietetics and became a dietician. But when I came to New Zealand I was, I was traveling and I ended up here for coast to coast. And I, what I do, this is just kind of how I roll. As I would stay at friends houses and I'd make them buy power cookies as it, as a thank you or give them to the guys at the bike shop, the bribing them, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3: (02:12)
Like it always works a treat. And in the faculty I lied. I had always wanted to start my own business and I didn't, I decided I wanted to stay in New Zealand. I didn't want to go back to work in a clinical dietetics setting. So I actually brought power cookies to Robin Jenkins, the director, the creator of the coast to coast and wow. Yeah. So after my first coast to coast in 2004, I went and saw Johnny and I brought him cookies and I'm like, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a business and selling these cookies because you know, everyone like always said they're so good and I should sell them. So, so I, I basically just started the business and it's, it's a nice, I always loved giving them to people and to share them with people. And so that was like a real behind wanting to do it. Plus of course, you know, having my own business and doing my own thing because the products, they just, they really, they just really work. And so what, what the actual power cookies are, is they're just made from ingredients that, you know, you'd probably find in most pantries, you know, typical bloody fine ringing in the background. Oh, I probably should. I should probably put mine on airplane mode while while we're here. Just ignore it, carry off.

Speaker 3: (03:32)
But they just have like, like rolled oats as the base ingredients drive through. It's real dark chocolate bit of Brown sugar a and rice syrup, peanut butter in a peanut chocolate farm. But just naturally, I think the reason why they work so well is because they're yummy. They taste really good and they're really and digest and they just don't, especially when you're racing or doing something hard, they just don't upset yourself. And I think it's because like, I don't use component chocolates. I don't use processed oils. There's no Palm oil. I don't add all these protein powders, like soy protein isolate. And you know, whey protein it of ISO. So, you know, go into that a little bit. So I saw it like, no, we all read that on the packet means not much to math. Why is they the bad thing? I just don't think, and this is just my sort of anecdotal feeling I guess.

Speaker 3: (04:29)
I, you know, it's, it's not, you know, a real like dietetic thing, but I just think your, your body when it's under the pump it up just can't digest those types of foods. They're not real foods cause that processed in a way that it's, yeah, it's processed and it's concentrated. It's kind of like when people try to race and they just try to only consume gel. Oh terrible. Yeah. I know like gels have their place. Like if you're, if you, if you need them in an emergency or like for example, in the coast to coast mountain run, I use gels because they're convenient. They work for that specific purpose. But to fuel a whole iron man or a whole ultra or whatever on just gels, you're just going to end up with majors. Yeah. Because it's just really hard on your gut to digest it.

Speaker 3: (05:17)
So that's where having real food I think works works a lot better. And so that's the main difference between my products and your sort of commercially available nutrition bars. Like they'll look good on paper nutritionally. But for me, I guess I'm a dietician and as a foodie, sure it's got to look good on paper, but it also has to taste good. It also has to be digestible and it has to give, it has to fulfill the intended purpose. And so with M's, the intended purpose is to give them a really nice sustained energy. And this is really, really important because yeah, a lot of things look good on paper or they don't, you know, have this or that. I mean, I've had some really bad experiences gels and in

Speaker 2: (05:58)
A lot of our athletes that running hot have, have come unstuck with gels and the in I, yeah, stay away from the completely, or if you're running something like a teenK or even a half marathon, you can get away with it. But if I was that we as soon as your guys' use of track is going to be struggling because all the blood is out of the muscles, I'm going to go for a little bit longer that just not, but yeah, there was some new ones on the market that I haven't tasted and that, that are meeting the new formulations and so on. But even, even ones that are fruit based, I find that they go very acidic and your tummy and served, at least for my stomach,uduring,uduring your vendors is a no go. So food is something that I'm quite passionate about getting white athletes to adopt to and in food. It tastes good. So really good too. We will have to talk a little bit about getting some Eames cookies for our athletes to

Speaker 3: (06:56)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That. That's right. You know, one of the types of gels that I used to use it was just actually the corn syrup. Yeah. But it, but it was better than the glucose. And the maltodextrin ones, like a lot of them have that multi Jack strain, which is just like eating, trying to consume paint, paint stripper. And it's just like, Oh my God. They, like I said, y'all do have their place, but you can [inaudible] their playground,

Speaker 2: (07:25)
Not on the rise and the bloody fight. I don't know who it is. It's trying to get me, but

Speaker 3: (07:30)
Somebody you can answer it and put them on the podcast.

Speaker 2: (07:38)
Yeah, it's it's my business partner. Neil's, not everybody does blame Neil for bringing me in.

Speaker 3: (07:44)
Yeah.

Speaker 2: (07:48)
And it happens every week. So those things, but I think my lessons sort of get it that we've got life going on. So now I want to change tech, then I want to talk a little bit about your sporting career. We've touched on the fact that you did coast to coast now. You didn't just do coast to coast. Take, take show your, your, your history with the coast to coast and your amazing records.

Speaker 3: (08:12)
Oh, thanks. How long did we have? Talk about coast to coast all day. It's a very, very dear race to me. It's what really connected me in New Zealand, you know, the mountains and just how inspirational the courses. It's amazing. So I would, I was traveling and I was doing some adventurous thing. I was living in Australia and training with a guy named by Andrews. He was served by Ironman lifesaving champion of Australia. And he won that a few times and I met him while I was traveling and racing and, and he's just like, you're all right. You're a good cheek. And I'm like, yeah. So I was living in Ozzie and spent about six months training with guy and he really helped me with my kayaking because I hadn't kayaked before. Yup. But that was all ocean paddling. And anyway, I thought, well after my stint there, I've, the plan was to come to New Zealand to race the coast to coast cause it was, you know, like I guess on the bucket list and I thought, well do the coast to coast and then I'll go back to Canada and you know, settle down and get a life and go back to work as a dietician.

Speaker 3: (09:20)
Well that's, you know, I came in, never left. So, so the first year I came, it was in, when I raised, it was 2004 and that year it flooded out and shoot thirds of the field never finished. They were getting the mountain, it was carnage man. Like it was. And, and I had only been through the run on like I'd gone through the run a couple of times on five days and I hadn't experienced that New Zealand rain around mountains, rivers coming up. I had no concept. I grew up in the prairies in Saskatchewan, like where kind of stuff just doesn't happen. And so I remember going up through goat pass and it was just like, it's Torrens of water coming down. And we're collaborating while we're, you know, using the trees to get up and like skirting these like waterfalls. It was in the Harley and I was like, Holy shit.

Speaker 3: (10:09)
Like this is, I knew it was pretty, pretty intense. And so I've got through goat pass and there was a Marshall, they're asking us how we were doing and I was definitely probably hypothermic probably, you know, probably wasn't so good for me to carry on, but I actually felt okay. And I said I'm a little cold but I'm okay. And I just kept my head down and I kept running. Didn't stop cause I knew if I stopped they would, that'd be it. And I got through the mountain run and got onto the river and I'm like, you know, and everyone, like it was just like one of my friends from Australia, Chris Clawson, he was like walking back up the Hill to Mount light when I was running down to the river. And I'm like, what the hell is going on? Like I didn't realize the corners that was unfolding both in front of me and behind me.

Speaker 3: (10:59)
Wow. My crew, like the, the marshals were, we're checking people at the [inaudible] transition and if we are hypothermic, they were pulling you off and not letting you get on the water. If I was able to sneak through and my crew like put me in the boat and they're like, Oh, you'll be fine. And off I went. And anyway I made it through and I finished. And like I remember we, I remember reading some Chaffey Lynch's stuff about the coast to coast will make you grovel and Cathy Lynch, for those of you who don't know Kathy Lynn, she's probably one of the toughest athletes. We'll stop, you know, on the planet. She's amazing. I've never met Kathy, but she's one of my inspirations. Yeah. And I just remember her like on that final ride about groveling and as I have like on the final ride, cause I was completely, and when I got to the finish line I just said there is no need to ever do that again.

Speaker 3: (12:01)
And then two days later with my buddy Lynn, and I was like, you know, my keys, my chronic sponsor, and he's been with me from the start helping me. I love Lenny and I'm, you know, you can start conspiring again for the next, the next year. And, and at the time I was being coached by Michael jacks and Wellington and he emailed me and said, Hey, I reckon you can win this race. And so he coached me through and, and we got there in 2005. I actually had a pretty good race in 2005 I came third again. But I was recovering from knee surgery and I was still getting used to the course. And then 2006 was a major step up for me because I upgraded my class and actually learn how to really handle that river. And I really started to master that river. And I also, I think I had a shift as well in I guess my mental approach.

Speaker 3: (12:57)
Yep. When I first started it was about, you know, I'm going to come smash the coast to coast. And it was very ego driven. And like I was out to prove something and then it started to transition into more introspection, learning. What was it that was driving me? Why was I wanting to do this and feeling more gratitude and most driving you do you think? No, when you look back? I think, well in the beginning it was, I, it went hand in hand with the cookie business and I needed to be successful in the race because I wanted, I was literally using my racing as a testimony, as a Testament to my power cookies. Yeah, true. And so that was a big driver. I wanted to actually show people how it could, how it could be a big driver was just the, the sheer beauty of the course in New Zealand and being in the mountains.

Speaker 3: (13:57)
And I think, you know, I've always been a competitive person, so of course that comes through. But, but it was, but it was beyond that. It was a Oh, understanding. Like why, you know, why was I going on this earth? Why was I here? You know, what is it that, that, that I can do? And, and when I would, when I would do well it would, it would inspire other people. And you've probably have this as well and that actually feeds back on to you and, and it really, I was really in tune to that and really receptive and, and you know, like I'm all that kind of stuff that the philosophical stuff and you know, sort of this mind, body, spiritual thing, you know, it's all up to individuals as to how they interpret or assess it. And you know, it might be real, it might be not, but what's, what is real is what's in your head.

Speaker 3: (14:47)
And I, I was listening and I, it kind of become a part of me and I let it become part of my story and part of my motivation. Wow. So now we're at where we were in two thousand sixty thousand students. So have some flaws you've done and you want it now, how many times is that entitled? I want it. I want it three times. So yes. So 2007 I had a foot injury, I had plantar fasciitis and I tried pushing through and it just didn't work. Like on race day, I always say like with longest day coast-to-coast, if you try to hide an injury or if you have a problem, the race pulls it out of you. And it pulled it out of me. I go past and I was like, Ooh, I just can't do this. And so I pulled that other ACE, which was really sad, but I I it was too much.

Speaker 3: (15:40)
And it's pretty penis. I mean that's racing when you're pushing the limits, things are gonna go sometimes pear shaped and there was, and if it was easy everyone would be doing it, you know. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So that year Fluor pausey wanted and she sort of popped up and surprise people with her when I pulled out Elena, Asha, one of the other top girls, she didn't have very good race. And so people were sort of speculating and saying, Oh, you know, who's this blur? And, you know, kind of talking about her when, and like it wasn't a, a worthy winner because girls kind of dropped out, but which is just stupid. Like she had an absolutely brilliant race, but like the longest day is about who manages themselves the best. And that day Fleur was amazing. And so the next year in 2008 with a pretty exciting year and I was really working on my mental game and that year I learned a lot.

Speaker 3: (16:34)
So I, I ended up beating for buying 44 seconds that year. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So she was leaving, coming off the water. I had a bad paddle light at that point. I still, I wasn't eating on the water, I was just using sports, drinking Coke and the river was really low and it was taking longer than I thought. And so my nutrition fell a bit short and I had to pull over and I had an emergency gel, so I had a gel in the backup. I normally don't use gels only on the round bit. So I came off the water's seven minutes behind Fleur and we still have the 70 chain time trial to Christchurch and that's a lot to make up. But one thing that I was really good at with my racing, I sort of took a feather of some Steve Grundy's hat and I mastered that final ride.

Speaker 3: (17:21)
Yep. Most people hated it. I loved it. I knew every inch of that ride and I knew that I could probably ride 10 minutes quicker than any other woman. So I like I was, and I was very good at my energy management and I think, I think that's why it was good at posting coast is not because I was the best runner or the best paddler or whatever cyclist. I think it's because I was really good at managing my energy and I think that the power cookies had a lot to do with it because it push me to do so. I I had to chase her. Oh, what's up?

Speaker 2: (17:54)
Yeah. I think that's actually one of the things that I was good at too. I wasn't fast. It wasn't anything bad. W over the really long was sort of races. Yeah. How do you manage your body and your energy levels. And I did have difficulty with dodgiest of things, but I managed to even still be moving, you know, I mean I have all that wall that you're out here.

Speaker 3: (18:17)
Yeah. You know, my, my coach that year I changed to John Newsome in pressure. She's a triathlon coach. And one of the things that he said to me, which really stuck was when you're in these races, it's, you're always gonna have those low points, but it's all about when you have those low points to really minimize the losses. So I was always open and it's like, well, if I'm having a shitty time right now, chances are my competitors are as well. And so I am going gonna acknowledge it, I'm going to accept it, I'm not going to fight it, but I'm going to deal with it and I'm going to get on. Because before, you know, you'll probably have that next part of your human race where, Oh, all of a sudden I actually feel quite good. And and so it's just a little moment in time and it passes. And so you just have to accept it that those low spots are going to happen and you just got to minimize those losses. So that was really good advice.

Speaker 2: (19:09)
It's a good quote that it's one of my favorite quotes in the world that says this too will pass. Yes. Keep it in your head when you're in the deep dark prices and rice, it will pass as well. And sometimes, and this is I think for new athletes who haven't experienced this before, they think it's all over. Yeah. They think there's no, there's no coming back from this. I'm feeling so bad. There is no way out. I'm so glad. So I've lost so much energy on vomiting or whatever that they, I bet very 99 times out of a hundred deer is a white bag and they will pass. And if you can give your body maybe just a few minutes break or slowing down a little bit or walking for a bit and then hello, you come back and you [inaudible].

Speaker 3: (19:51)
Exactly. Exactly. It's so true. And I think what, what does help with having a bit of experience w well, well you can practice this without racing, but you have to work on like, it's really easy to sit and talk about it out, you know in a, in your living room. But it's another thing to actually put it into practice. And so that's where, when the heat is on and you're in, in that moment, having the wherewithal to kind of look at yourself objectively and know yourself out of it. And that was, I used to joke about doing that. I used to joke about, Oh, I'm brainwashing myself and we would kind of laugh because it's kind of true. I literally was like, that's how I thought of it. I was like brainwashing myself and you know, being able to master your mind. And so, so when I was chasing floor on that final gride and I remember my coach, we, they put me on the bike and he's just like, right to settle in when you're ready, John, put in the big gear and do what you know you can do.

Speaker 3: (20:51)
And he's like, whatever you do, just never give up. And so on that ride was my first real experience because I'm chasing and I'm, you know, seven minutes isn't a lot of time to make up two hour ride. And I was like, well, okay, am I going to catch her? What's the split? You know? And I was going through all these scenarios and I was thinking, and I was worrying about like, I don't want her to win because that's, you know, I, this is my race and I wanna win this race. And then, you know, and I was thinking beyond into the future and then I was worrying about, you know, stuff that had happened in the past. And as I was observing in myself, as I was thinking futuristically or in the past, my energy would literally drain from my legs. Wow. But when I stopped, when I re, I realized that that was going on.

Speaker 3: (21:39)
Cause my, I was working with Renzi Hannon, who's is spent in eighth grade. And he, I remember him saying like, when you're thinking futuristically or in the past, you, you literally lose your energy when you're in the presence. And you and I, I gave, I realized that I was like, right, I gave myself permission. Yup. Let her go. Don't worry about her. Don't worry about whether or not I'm gonna win or catch her. Just like dropped my elbows, relaxed my back, click it up a couple more gears, pull off with my heels, take a sip of my Coke and I just focused on writing as fast as I could. And and you know, I still got the split, like the radio guys were going back and forth and giving us splits and you take it on, but you take it on as useful information, you assess it, you take it and then you move on.

Speaker 3: (22:27)
You don't hang on to it. And so once you get to that point where you're completely in your zone and it's not a magical enigma, you can create it and you can make it happen. And once you're in that zone, you literally feel like super woman. It was, it was an amazing thing. And when I started reeling her in and when I knew I was going to catch her and, and, and this is where this energy thing really came into play because, because it was such exciting racing and the girl, I'm Rachel Cashin who was in third place, she was only a couple minutes behind me so you could ride a bike as well. So we were all, we all finished within a few minutes of each other, which is really exciting racing 13 hour race, but you can feel the energy people were pulled over on the side of the streets like I had never seen before. And I just, with support that was out there and that electric energy, I could literally feel it. And it really fed me cause I was like, I was, I was using it to my advantage. I was taking it and using it and that was a really pivotal time because it made me realize how you can actually put into practice harnessing that, that mind body connection and mastering your mind. Yeah. And this is something that, you know, I try and do nowadays whenever, because most,

Speaker 2: (23:46)
Most of the time, most of us in the future or in the past, you know, held bet with the crap that makes up my past. We get where in the predictable future is. Dr Joe Dispenza talks about if someone I follow very closely, we're emotionally one way we're being pulled or the other instead of actually being in the present and then creating our future without the baggage and in the middle of a rice, I can totally understand how that drains your imagery and yeah, keeping your mind in the right place. Yeah. Just such a crucial piece of the puzzle wasn't it? Yeah. You can try and everything, but you have to train that mind and then having that experience. So you managed to, so take us over the finish line on those last couple of minutes. What was it like

Speaker 3: (24:36)
Everybody, everybody was out on the street and a couple people that I trained with and my coach and everyone, it just seemed like everyone was there for me. I think they were there for both, for all of us. I felt like we were there for me and it was just electric and it was almost, I remember riding through red cliffs floor in red cliffs and when I went by her and you know, she, she was at, she was spent and I was just like, I was just like wrapping up. Like it was really crazy shift. But I just remember this, this feeling of the, the Hill I'm riding past the Hill and the people out cheering. It was like riding in an amphitheater. Wow. It was almost like an out of body experience. We just love lunch n*s. But when I, when I got across the line, I absolutely freaked out.

Speaker 3: (25:26)
I just lost it and I was screaming and Jenny was like, we were like, cause I was just like, you know, I had such exquisite focus and discipline and then to get across the line and to actually achieve, you know, what I had set out to do, it was just like amazed. Like it was, it was an amazing feeling. It was like, it was pretty life changing. And then when when flare across the line and we high fived it, it was, I think she was really happy as well. Like obviously she didn't win, but it was an amazing thickened the story. It was a moment of empowerment for women in sports to see like, take that boys, this is not a boring one. Wars race. Our girl, and we made this awesome race and Florida and I knew it and it was all that moment wasn't about who won. It was about look at what, look at what an awesome race we just had Blake.

Speaker 2: (26:23)
Oh no, Ben is such a, you're such a good storyteller and I can feel the emotions of it. And having been in similar situations myself and just, yeah, a hundred K nationals that running around Talco and I'd had a really bad, I injured my back then the night before I, or an actually falling off, went here and hit my kidneys. So my kidneys were hit painkillers and at midnight we were starting it early in the morning and at midnight I was liking Hagan, me, you know, spasms and stuff. And I had take all these painkillers and of course then I was completely woozy with the painkillers. My mum had to dress me. That's how bad I was. And I'm standing on the, that line at 3:00 AM with my business partner and my coach Neil, who was doing his first hundred K and three o'clock in the morning and I'm like completely out of it.

Speaker 2: (27:12)
But going right, we're going, you know, yeah, here we go. We're doing what we're doing. That's agony. Like the first couple of hours, you're really, really bad. And then and then I started falling asleep because of the painkillers and I just kept, you know, who, who's doing his first hundred and I'm meant to be helping him. Right. And him holding my hand and trying to keep me away. Can you kind of, you know, wake me up as I'm passing out. It was probably good for him. He was great. And then as far more on in the day came in and my body started to wake up, as it often does in the painkillers was out of my system. And some have the kidney pain at least, and got out. Isn't it funny how that happens or the way you think it's all over. And then if you just go, sometimes you can get through it.

Speaker 2: (27:59)
And then we were running along, we're doing quite well. And then we got to about 70 kilometers in and Neil started to really break down then because it was his first race doing this. He was, you know, having those really deep, dark moments and the spear and crying and, you know, I should do, Oh, and going along and I'm talking to him and we, you know, so we've been helping each other way. And then for about 93, 94 kilometers, and one of my crew came back and they said, the number one lady is just ahead of you. I'm sorry, number two. So I was in third place at the stage and we reckon you can get her, you know? And so I was like, Oh, I've got to go. I'm leaving yet to my Mike Neil and I usually don't like to bend someone fishing.

Speaker 2: (28:44)
That helped me through the first half, faced as crying and God and go for, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And so then I started drinking the Kaka call. I would watch guys don't drink, I only drink Coke if you're doing all [inaudible] it was like anything goes and was drinking and I was just going like in that flow state where you see you can see here and hitting me and I was just mowing or getting away from you. There is no way honey poke the call. I had my little cousin as a probably year old and he was running beside me and bringing me the codes and stuff and can come on, come on, come on.

Speaker 2: (29:26)
We passed that. She broke. Of course. You know, cause when you was yeah, and I didn't want to do that too, but I want to know like you have to do it. It's like liquid. And so I mowed down on and I ended up, so I was sick. And so the first birthplace gave it already come across but sick and the nationals. And that was just like one of those Epic moments, you know, one of those times that you and my poor might, Neil came over a few minutes later and he was fine. He had us be a standard Chi under his belt and just, you know, so you never quite know how race is going to go

Speaker 3: (30:07)
And it's never, it's, it ain't over till it's over. And you know, it was so funny because at that year, when, when in 2008 when it was such a close race, and I remember we were staying with some friends and I was debating about, Oh, should I wear an Aero helmet for the last ride or should I just use my normal helmet? And my friend said, well, you can make it up to, you know, 30 seconds quicker. And it's just like, well then we may have 30 seconds else. I've worn the Aero helmet, you know, one thing that people can do to train themselves to work on, on that being in the moment kind of thing is first of all I think just acknowledging that you are the master of your mind and it's your decision how you take things on. Are you gonna let external things that distract you cause that's all they are, what your competition's doing, what the weather's doing.

Speaker 3: (30:56)
Those are all just external distractions that you cannot control. So you have to acknowledge what you can control and what you can't control and be really mindful of, of, of just filtering things out. And if something does come at you, take it as like, just be really objective, be really clinical and clear and just take it as information and then, and then you can do some exercises too. Like you know, I'd be out on a training run and you know, long run and you're looking at that Hill way out in the distance of it's like seems so far. But then you go, well actually is it far like who decides how far it is? Like, depending on your perspective, it could actually be quite close. And then you, you run that, you do that run and then you quickly learn, well actually that only took me 10 minutes to run up to that Hill and it looks like ages.

Speaker 3: (31:50)
And so then you, you kind of take that and go, Oh okay. And then next time it doesn't seem so bad and next time it doesn't seem so bad. So like in the beginning when I was starting the training for longest day, like I had never done that kind of long training before. I was mainly doing like five days days and a few like triathlons and stuff. So to do like a six hour bike ride or a three hour, four hour run like that or big paddles, that was way beyond my variance level. And so in the beginning it almost seems unfathomable to have volume of training. But in the end it was like no big deal at all. And it was just, the only difference was a bit of experience and a bit of just gone, Oh it is fitness.

Speaker 2: (32:34)
But mostly it's your mindset. And you know what's interesting is like we, you've retired now and I've retired now and for prime going through, yeah, we're suitable now. [inaudible] For a while I'd go and try and do something long. That experience is actually gone. Like I have to reopen up their horizon again, Alex for when I, when I decided that I'm doing something along with today and it's like, what was I so far again where I was, it doesn't stay open. Like just the, I used to do hundreds of kilometers. It doesn't mean you can always stay there. So you actually have to keep, in other words, it's a muscle that needs to be [inaudible].

Speaker 3: (33:15)
Yeah. And your body will only let you do so much. And that, that's actually kicked my butt a little bit because like I won't do anything for awhile. Like I'll do stuff but like, you know, getting yoga up and working on my lands, you know, cutting some gorgeous or whatever, and then it's like, Oh, I haven't been for a run in a way while I'm gonna I'm just going to go out for a run. And then, you know, you just think that, but like there's a bit of muscle memory there, but then you pay for it. Cause you know, yeah. Just

Speaker 2: (33:41)
You think, you think I remember my very last run that I did, which was right across the North Island for a charity of a three days. And with my, my husband [inaudible] and Neil, and it was for a friend of ours who had died and we were running across and I hadn't trained the entire year because I'd had mum sick and I sort of thought, ah, I'll be fine lot, way, way, way more. And then, Oh my God, it kicked my butt because I shouldn't been training. And I hadn't had that mental thing for basically a year, so I got to the finish line, but Oh well I wasn't in good shape, you know? Yeah. I know. And you think it would remain with you by the thousands?

Speaker 3: (34:25)
Yeah. It's like anything, you have to train it and practice it and that. Yeah. But that keeping your muscles active and [inaudible].

Speaker 2: (34:33)
Yeah. And even like, like you're training and you're doing your fitness, it's very different to be doing those long sort of stuff. And they're grueling. What's in store for Emily now. So you're still doing that in [inaudible] week and people get them and yeah. Tell us a little bit about,

Speaker 3: (34:49)
Well, people can get the ends at the most bike shops in New Zealand. Like especially like the torpedo sevens and the bike shops. We have pretty good distribution there. We've been in the, the new worlds nationwide. Not all the new world stock, all the products though, but if you have, but, but they can certainly get fun. So if you bought like a favorite new world you can in there or you can go ask for them because that

Speaker 2: (35:17)
You get them in name or, huh.

Speaker 3: (35:19)
That's what picks peanut butter did. He got his customers to go in and harass the grocery buyers. So go in and like, just be shamelessly, you know, harassing, harassing them. Last year I brought out, I was the first to the New Zealand market with the him a protein cookie. Ed. I'd always wanted to make a protein cookie, but I wanted it to be vegan and natural and I wanted it to taste good. I didn't want to just load it up with sugar substitutes and protein powders. So my ham cookies are made with natural peanut butter dates are, and I'm hemp protein. Wow. And it's not just a token amount of hat. It's like 16 and 18% protein, which we source from New Zealand. And those are in all the countdowns. So most of them countdown. So countdown doesn't have my other range, but they have the ham cookies.

Speaker 3: (36:07)
Okay. So yeah, so bike shop, BP connect nationwide has, has a few of the bars and I'm actually just working on a distribution deal with a company and, and we're just still going through the process of pulling together all the information. But I'm hoping that that's going to help to give us more widespread distribution because that's like, that's one thing that I've always struggled with over the years. Cause we're a small company. I'm not, I'm not owned by a big food conglomerate. I don't have like big marketing budget from this kind of stuff cause it's really, it's really expensive to to really distribute it and service your product. Like when, when I first met Julisa I was doing that in store tasting new world and Wellington and like to do that all over the country. Obviously you can't do it yourself because you just can't be everywhere at once. But if I were to pay somebody to do that for us, like it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and to do his disdain campaign like it's so it's hard but we're, but we are getting there. We're slowly, slowly just like just like a ultra or just like coast-to-coast, you know, you just take it, chunk it down one step at a time.

Speaker 2: (37:18)
A fun and fascinating whole distribution thing in the whole [inaudible] their business. Cause you know, I'm entrepreneur toe and I've got the same, it's different product obviously, but we've got my new book coming out and it's the whole same thing. You have to get it to distribution. You have to get into bookstores, you have to get on the Amazon Kindle. God knows [inaudible] box, get it actually, get it translate into other languages. Hopefully get it into Australia or new ways or this with stuff that you have to be aware of.

Speaker 3: (37:44)
Yeah, no idea. Oh, Oh totally. And like little things like packaging, like, like all of their packaging designs, there's so much that goes into it and people just think, I don't think they, I don't know if they realize just what goes on behind the scenes and just his magically arrived here. There's a lot that goes into it. So yeah. So I'm looking at, yeah, we want to hopefully get this distribution happening and, and it'll give us a little bit more like, you know, they'll be able to get us into more places like the four squares and hopefully more of the new roads and get more ranging and top down. So, so that's what's coming up. What else? So really working on that. And then we've got our property. And so I'm a bit of a homebody and I love working on my land. I love planting trees.

Speaker 3: (38:35)
I planted about 5,000 native trees on our property rehabbing. So we've got wish out the back, which is, it's absolutely beautiful. But the front section is on a whole hillside, which I, well it's funny cause it's got gorse on it. And you know, at first I was gonna just flip all the Gores to get rid of it, but it's actually really good to stabilize the Hill, but it's also nitrogen fixing it. The legume. Oh wow. It's actually really good for the soil. And nutritionally as a dietician it's the course isn't so bad. And also to the NATO, it's a good nursery plan for the natives to come through. Wow. So we've been up here for a few years now and even in that time I can see the native starting to overtake the course. Wow. But I'm still doing a lot of planting. Like I did a whole section that was quite steep and then I've got like along our road side that I've done. And it just takes a lot of maintenance and a lot of that'll keep your foot good guys. Keep me fit. Like if I, if I do a day on the scrub powder, I feel like I've done a big post to coast. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: (39:43)
The aim. Let's, let's Oh, we got to wrap up now, but I just wanted to thank you very much for coming on the show and for sharing your wisdom because it's really interesting. I have no idea what it takes to doing coast to coast, so all I've ever done is run.

Speaker 3: (39:58)
I'm the same thing with all, like I, I'm sure like I could do an ultra, but I just couldn't imagine doing like a hundred or 200 Kane. Why? Oh, I don't know. My, I think my feet, I think my body's limit is about that 33 K of arch. Okay. That's me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (40:20)
But yeah, it's different. A different, you know, techs, different skills and disciplines and to do something that complicated, I always look at coast-to-coast and go, Oh God. And the biking in the running in, you know, how much money that takes and how much it, yeah, I'll put it over here, shows a runner,

Speaker 3: (40:37)
This animal can, I can totally get that. The simplicity of running is, is there's a lot to be said for that. And then I have to say like bat is my go to fitness is yoga and running. Cause you just put on your shoes and go, there's no stop to the gear. Yeah. It's easy.

Speaker 2: (40:52)
So nice not to be fiddling around with stuff sometimes.

Speaker 3: (40:56)
Oh that's totally, totally, yeah.

Speaker 2: (41:00)
Wait, is it, you want to see like if you, you know, you've got the young girls out there that are starting out in their careers 40 or, or just thinking about things like anything.

Speaker 3: (41:08)
Yeah. If there's something stressing you out, don't worry about it. Just focus on yourself. Focus on what you need to do and just don't worry about other stuff. Just, you know, I used to spend a lot of energy wasted worrying about things I couldn't control. Yes. Like it's like Len, my quiet guy. I remember one time, you know, he just, you know, we were talking about something, I was stressing about something, you know, unnecessarily. And Lynn just said, don't worry about it. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. And that was, that was actually really good advice. So yeah, don't, don't stress stuff. And

Speaker 2: (41:44)
That might Manson was at a mall hose and just keep pushing forward. Hey,

Speaker 3: (41:49)
That's right. That's right. And just get out there and do it and just yeah, we're work on your mental game. [inaudible] There's some really great stuff. Like, I know you mentioned Joe does better than my husband actually just mentioned him. I'm going to start getting into his stuff.

Speaker 2: (42:03)
Amazing. Oh. Cause the whole mind body connection and the, the meditation and the power of leaving all the crap that you've gotten past behind. And it's some pretty deep stuff, but it's a, yeah. Work in progress.

Speaker 3: (42:14)
Yeah. It's all over. Can programs and just, you know, remember that you're not going to accomplish everything in a day. Like just do, do what you can do within your control and understand your limits and just put one foot in front of the other and just

Speaker 2: (42:27)
Go for it. Sounds brilliant. Awesome. So everybody know, kick kick-out aims cocaine and brought them support here. What's your website? Him? So it's power, cookies.com. Our cookies.com.

Speaker 3: (42:41)
Yay. Thanks so much, Lisa. That's be good.

Speaker 2: (42:45)
It's been lovely having you on and thanks for being such a great role model and yeah, we're hopefully we'll catch up with you again, so.

Speaker 3: (42:52)
Okay, that sounds really good. Thanks Lisa. Look forward to catching up with you as well.

Speaker 1: (42:59)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team. At www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this episode Lisa talks to Functional Neurologist, Functional Health Practitioner Dr Sam Shay of Colorado about his "Ten Pillars Of Health" model - an integrative approach to personalised health using the latest in research.

Dr Shay talks in-depth on topics like adrenal fatigue, hormone balance, and the effects of different types of exercise, inflammation in the body and brain and more

You can find out more about Dr Shay at these links:

Website links: * Free 15-minute discovery call to see how functional medicine and functional testing is the fast way for your to reach your health and performance goals: http://drsamshay.com/work-with-me/online/ * Free ebook on the 10 Pillars of Health & Biohacking & functional testing: http://drsamshay.com/biohacker/ * How to genetically determine your optimal diet: www.drsamshay.com/carbchoice * Online Courses: * + Fatigue: www.EndAdrenalFatigue.com + Addiction: www.FlourishOutOfAddiction.com + Stress: www.TheWorkOnlineCourse.com * Facebook: www.Facebook.com/sam.shay.792 * Youtube: www.Youtube.com/tenpointwellness

Dr. Shay walked his own health journey from being chronically unwell from age 6-18 and overcoming sugar and video game addiction. He dedicated his life to natural medicine get himself and others well, which led him to functional medicine and functional testing. Dr. Shay helps his clients with custom nutrition and lifestyle plans with his “10 Pillars of Health" framework, the TAME the BEAST of addiction framework, health coaching, and functional testing. We would like to thank our sponsors

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Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tama T brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Well, hi everybody. Lisa Tamati here at "pushing the limits". It's fantastic to have you back again. I'm really excited for today's guest. This is somebody that I've actually stumbled across in my search to help my mum and I'm going to be working hopefully with Dr Sam Shay in the future in that regard. But this man is a very special doctor. He is a functional medicine practitioner. He's a chiropracter, he's an acupuncturist and he's going to, she has some mind blowing stuff with you guys today that I really want you to pay attention to. So welcome to the show. Dr Sam is fantastic.

Speaker 3: (00:49)
Thank you so much for having me. I really, really enjoy sharing this information through podcasts. I love, Iteaching more than almost anything and this is such a great medium

Speaker 2: (01:00)
To help just to help people and such a scalable way. It's, it's fantastic. And, and everything that you've been talking to me about, I'm just like absolutely mind blowing. And, and the stuff that you have on your website and dr Shay is actually in Colorado in America, has previously been in New Zealand and been practicing in New Zealand is over in the States again where you come from looking after a sick relative unfortunately. But he's taken a bit of time out today. He's going to share some of his insights around the 10 pillars of health which is going to go now, dr Sam has such a wide array of knowledge that we're only going to be able to touch the surface on a couple of areas today. But I do hope to get the same back to dive deeper into some of the areas once we've covered them.

Speaker 2: (01:51)
So dr Sam, as you want to share it, you've got a PowerPoint there. Now I know that people are listening on podcasts as well as on YouTube, but for those of you who do want to see this presentation that not the same is going to share with us right now. You can hop over to dr Sam's website, which is docked the same shade. It is H a y.com forward slash bio hacker and you can actually see the slide. So if you are with us on the podcast and not on YouTube, you can put over there and we'll put that in the show notes. Of course, right over to you, dr Sam, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you've got there.

Speaker 3: (02:29)
Thank you. So the, the, the context behind all of this is

Speaker 2: (02:35)
I'm, my background

Speaker 3: (02:39)
Is that I had a really, really rough go as a kid in terms of of being very chronically unwell core health, lots of high stress from extremely

Speaker 2: (02:50)
A F

Speaker 3: (02:51)
Contentious divorce. I had severe insomnia, severe got issues of fatigue. I had developed a sugar addiction. I was dealing, I didn't know it was gluten and dairy at the time, but I was on a high gluten high dairy diet, which was not working with my system as part of my severe gut issues. But no one, no one really understood why I was unwell. It's kind of this mystery mystery stuff going on. And both of my parents and being medical doctors, they, their particular training was not in looking at lifestyle in a holistic manner. It was more a, it's in your head or you're missing some sort of drug or there's something or you're just making it up. And the, the, the reality is, is that it was, it was far more complex than a psychological diagnosis. There was real physiological problems that were not taken seriously.

Speaker 3: (03:48)
So I, I was dealing with so much stuff, I was like a war zone at school with a physical and psychological bullying. I mean, just as something for people listening here I'm going to issue a kind of an uncomfortable question, but it's an important question. It's like what is the difference between a physical assault and physical bullying in school? And the answer is there's two things. One is what the two things are. You're, if you're over 18 and you're out of school, it's called assault. But if you're under 18 and still in school, it's called bullying. And you should just get over it, quit whining. You know? And the verbal billing as well. Like if people, if people, if they're over 18 and outside of school, and we're told the things with the level of vitriol and venom that I was told in grade school, the people who would say such things would have a restraining order put against them.

Speaker 3: (04:40)
Yeah. But in school it's just like, Oh, he's just, it's just tough enough. You know, it's fine, you know, whatever. But it's not, these things were extremely damaging was physically and emotionally. And what compounded from that was an onslaught of severe physiological reactions, a sugar addiction, video game addiction over eating constant postural torsion of being in a defensive mode that affected my spine as a chronic back pain, which I thought was normal for over a decade. I thought having pain was normal, a severe, debilitating insomnia and all sorts of other things. And my, my, my journey, basically, I snap to it when I was in high school and realized that natural medicine was my only way out. So I had, I had to work through all sorts of stuff from like a coffee habit starting at age six. Wow. All sorts of stuff was happening and I, I recovered from addiction and burnout by figuring out multiple, multiple modalities, not because I went out and said, Oh, I have to figure out multiple things.

Speaker 3: (05:46)
It was, I went through the typical journey I've seen most of my clients go through was I'm unwell with this thing, whether it's got issues or fatigue or I had a head injury or some sort of neurological degeneration or a really bad accident or a brain fog or foreman dysregulation or gut issues or all these things. And I, someone told me about a product, a personality or a protocol and I'm going to try it. Yup. And so I went and just did whatever people I trusted at the moment said to do, go see this person and go try this product. Go try this protocol, go learn this, go do that. And I call it magic bullet therapy. Yeah. I was chased F yeah. Looking for that magic, that little thing that will fix you. And there is no thing there. Well there's a can where actually figured out how magic bullet therapy can work for certain people.

Speaker 3: (06:41)
The model also explains magic bullet therapy that the, the, what happened was a, for people like me who had multiple things, a crumbling in there using the pillar, the motif of a pillar of health and in my model is 10 pillars of health. If you have multiple pillars crumbling, and if like what I observed in my clinical practice was that people with chronic issues, like I said, like fatigue or chronic pain or hormone dysregulation or chronic gut issues or brain fog or what anything else that's going on, they had a minimum seven out of 10 pillars crumbling. Wow. Okay. Now what that means practically is that if a protocol, personality or product at most helps up to three pillars. Yup. So if you're good, most clinicians, if they're honest or really, really good at one to three pillars, maybe five or so like, but if you've got seven plus that are crumbling, you're gonna like get unpredictable or temporary results or the plateau or whatever it's going to be.

Speaker 3: (07:47)
Now, I had all 10 out of 10 pillars when I actually reflected back on my own life with the model. And that's why it was took so long to figure out what was going on. And more importantly, what I had to do because there was no unified model at the time when I was struggling, but I was going through some, what I found is that if we assess these 10 pillars, if we assess these 10 pillars correctly and most importantly just understand them, then we can start to really, really chart a path forward. Instead of doing the magic bullet therapy where we hope it's this one thing that's going to work and then it doesn't, and then we feel bad and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm never going to get well. Or this person you know, was hyping me up and like it's on like they were just blowing smoke or whatever. And the reality is is that if someone has nine pillars that are like 70% okay, and there's one that's at 30% and they just happened to find the goji Berry juice to squirt up their nose or whatever, you know, and their

Speaker 3: (08:56)
Bionutrient pillar happened to be the one that was deficient in whatever goji Berry juice has.

Speaker 2: (09:02)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (09:02)
Then they feel a hundred times better than they're going to be the ones walking around telling everyone to buy their goji Berry juice.

Speaker 2: (09:08)
Exactly. Yup.

Speaker 3: (09:10)
Whereas if you're at, you flip it and you've got one pillar that's a 70% and nine that are 30% goji berries, you's ain't going to do

Speaker 2: (09:17)
Jack. Yeah. And then,

Speaker 3: (09:19)
But the goji person who sold you the goji juice will say, Oh, you're not feeling better. Just take more.

Speaker 2: (09:26)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (09:26)
Like that's the answer. It's always more of the magic bullet as opposed to stepping back and looking at

Speaker 2: (09:33)
At the pillars as a whole. So, and this is really the case. Does that kind of architecture makes sense? Yeah. Because like we not simplistic beings, we have very complicated structures. We have, we have so many different areas. And this is what I find too. Like my, my list is Noah story with my mum is the you. And it was very much a multipronged approach. I mean, I didn't know about the team pillars at the time and we started working with mum yet in regards to the team pillows. But we, but I took a very multipronged approach to the way I treated her. And when somebody asked me what was the one thing, there was no one, there was no, there were things that were definitely helpful in that I would, you know get people to, to look into. But we aren't simplistic beings that can take a little white pill and everything's going to go away. And we all want that because it's easy. But taking holistic look at your whole health as totally agreed as I'm a very, very important thing. So you had adrenal exhaustion basically in fatigue and all of these things happening as a young person and you've used this experience that you went through to actually go and work out how to get yourself right and now help, you know, hundreds of other people with us knowledge. So let's go through some of the pillars and, and how that works.

Speaker 3: (11:03)
Sure. So just, just a quick caveat in terms of the reference to the little white pill. Just for context. Look, both my parents are medical doctors and so as my grandfather, in fact, my father and grandfather are quite famous in the medical world. And just, I'm not anti Western medicine. What I see is that it's about application. So Western medicine was developed from military medicine, which is emergency care where you don't have missing eye syndrome or bleeding arm or like bleeding ice syndrome or missing arm disease. Those are actual emergencies that need to be stabilized. So Western medicine is genius and should be celebrated for stabilization of emergency situations. And that's really the gift of Western medicine. That's really what the primary use of the, the, it's, it's Western medicine is predicated on stable is stabilizing. The problem was when that philosophy is as applied to non-emergency issues, chronic States, chronic pain, like in, that's where natural medicine is really thrives in looking at the chronic underlying things that are not emergencies but are crippling.

Speaker 3: (12:18)
As well as the thing with natural medicine is looking at bringing people up to not just mere normal or mere absence of symptoms, but actually to optimal. So when emergency medicine, if misapplied is at best masks, the debilitating symptoms to set of symptoms to give you a less debilitating set of symptoms. Little white pills are a radical sledgehammer to your physiology and you rebuild the pieces in a slightly different orientation. It's shifting the symptomatology. You can't add a poisonous substance to a system and expect it to get healthier. What you can do in the best case scenario is shift what you're experiencing. And I'm not being inflammatory. When I say adding a poisonous substance, when I talk about a medication, there's a term called an LD 50 illegal lethal dose, 50%. A medication cannot be classified as a medication unless it kills her 30% of a rat population controlled study.

Speaker 3: (13:17)
So I'm not being inflammatory, I'm being technical. When I say medications are poisons, but they can be extremely useful to help stabilize a critical situation or by time if your symptoms are so debilitating that you need to shift your symptoms to something more tolerable so that you can then do what? Look at the 10 pillars of health to figure out what's wrong underneath it. So we need to really contextualize the little white pill in a collaborative manner where there is a place for it. I'm not trained in the little white pill. Yup. I'm trained in the natural side of things. I feel like what's what's really happening, what can happen is that there can be a rejoinder of this collaboration at of of natural medicine in Western medicine and in fact functional medicine is that meaning point functional medicine, which is what I practice that is using the best of Western medical diagnostics. Yes. With the best of natural medicine lifestyle intervention and the best of functional nutrition as one of the tools to help bring people back to balance.

Speaker 2: (14:29)
This is just so, so important. I am, you know, I,

Speaker 3: (14:33)
Okay

Speaker 2: (14:34)
As a light person who's not got a medical background at all, I've come to the Zech same conclusion that there are benefits on both things and there's, there's no such thing as a free biological lunch. If you, if you are taking pills, it's, it's going to help maybe with one or two symptoms, but it's going to be having other consequences generally speaking. And this is where we're just taking one pill to cover up that symptom, which causes another problem. So you take another pill and product cover up that system. And that's the sort of thing that's happening with chronic disease and in our society. And this different approach. And I, you know, there's differently a massive movement at the moment. Thank goodness of people like yourselves. And other areas where this new science coming online and this new approach has been taken. And this combined approach I think is very exciting time for, for us. Unfortunately when you usually go to your local doctor, they're 20 years behind this stuff that we're talking about often. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (15:39)
And it's changing. I mean, the younger generation of, of Western trained doctors, they're, they're witnessing what's happening to their parents and grandparents, perhaps themselves or their siblings or even their children. And there's a whole new perspective that's happening where they are starting to look more holistically. And it's really people, you know, [inaudible] people such as myself who really wants to create the bridge that we create these frameworks. And what the 10 pillars of health does is that it will prevent fanaticism. Even amongst the natural health world, there's some people think it's all about dealing with the infection or it's all about dealing with toxin of choice, whether it's mercury or you know, sprays or whatever it may be, or no, it's all about getting the right nutrients or whatever. And the reality is is that the 10 pillars, we'll balance it out. And it also explains the entire cycle of chronic disease.

Speaker 3: (16:34)
So when we look here, we've got bad lifestyle choices or bad circumstances. So, so bad circumstances, like I'm a six year old boy and I'm being fed high gluten, high dairy, we know sleep being bullied and assaulted at school, dealing with the stress of divorce at home. How did it picked up an infection from swimming in a Lake at summer camp, chronic pain, poor posture, you know all these, you know, all of these things mixed into one. Lots of toxic exposure. That's not a choice. That's a circumstance we didn't have. So absolutely. So you got choices and circumstances which are interpreted through one's individual genetics. You get one or more of the four adaptive responses so people can respond to bad choices and bad circumstances. The body responds with the combination of inflammation, blood sugar dysregulation, free radical damage or tissue breakdown. So for example, if it's the gut, you can get in Flint, inflammation in the gut, your blood sugar can get dysregulated.

Speaker 3: (17:30)
So your, your appetite and your, your, your craving cycles get all messed up. Tissue breakdowns where the gut lining breaks down and free radical damage from all just just creating destruction all around chronic adaptation interpreted through one's genetics, leads to damage of one of the three, one or more of the three main body systems. That's the liver detox system, the gut GI system, or the neuroendocrine hormone system. So if you have chronic damage to your liver, your gut and or your foreman system, you then get an expression of symptoms, whether it's fatigue or lower mood or digestion, weight gain cravings and Somnia pain, burnout, hot flushes, whatever it may be. And if you have lots of symptoms than people cope with bad lifestyle choices, which then leads to more adaptation, more damage, more symptoms, more coping, more adaptation and round and round a ghost. I mean this is basically explaining 20 years of my clinical, you know, education in one slide in one a couple of sentences.

Speaker 3: (18:30)
And it's, it's really important to understand this cycle because then what the symptoms people are experiencing with are the expressions of their body trying to adapt. They make sense. It's not like a some sort of unique conspiracy of the universe due to bad germs, bad genes, bad luck or bad timing. And what we do is that we assess the 10 pillars of health and detail, then use functional testing, like taking the adrenals, checking the liver, checking genetics, checking gut, checking for parasites, checking or checking the mitochondria, checking thyroid. We use these functional tests to clarify how the body is adapting and what systems have been damaged and then customize a nutrition diet, lifestyle plan while correcting the 10 pillars lifestyles in parallel. Then you can reverse the whole process in a truly meaningful, sustainable way. So this slide, I mean as I'm describing it for just our listeners, and again, you can get it, you know, you can get this entire ebook from my website.

Speaker 3: (19:38)
It's if you understand this cycle, then you have the knowledge to know that you can't reverse the cycle and a meaningful longterm way. And that's what functional medicine does. So with the 10 pillars, I mean we, we'll go through each of the 10 pillars. The first one is called brain, it's called brain. Each of the pillars begins with a B. Cause I'm a teacher, I like mnemonics and elevation and all that stuff. Brain is brain and hormones. So we're looking at the adrenal system, the thyroid system, the sex hormone system. And in regards to the sex hormone system, we look primarily to estrogen dominance, toxic exposure to outside estrogens or from microwave plastics or soy products or a question, you know, questionable cosmetics and body lotions and or all the chemicals, vegetables that have been sprayed or meats that are pumped with hormones depending on the country of origin and things like that. Like with the adrenal system, like I had severe what's called colloquially quote unquote adrenal fatigue. But in reality it's renamed hypo cortisol ism hypo meaning low cortisol, meaning low cortisol. Cortisol is the one of the hormones, the adrenals release that regulates blood sugar, helps drop inflammation and helps you handle stress. So if you are unable to, and I have, I have all my my, I have four labs that I showed on on my stress system, like the before and afters over the years going from flat, literally flat line to Tet near textbook normal.

Speaker 2: (21:12)
I'm the opposite. I had a Dutch tastes done, you know, dried urine test done. And because you know, I've had a listeners know, I've had a very, very stressful last four years. My, my, so adrenal, what did you call it hyper cortisol? Cortisol ism? Yes. Hypercortisolism I've got no cortisol basically. Right. Flatline from, from the beginning to the end. And all the hormones are out of whack. So low testosterone, low progesterone, low estrogen and of course coming into menopause as well. And why case? So mine was even below that. That bottom line.

Speaker 3: (21:52)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm showing, I'm showing right now. I skipped ahead to the labs on the, on the ebook. So that show too,

Speaker 2: (21:58)
This is fascinating for me because I mean obviously I'm, I'm dealing with this myself. And I know a lot of our athletes are as well that we train literal burnout. Yeah. Yeah. Then we hopefully we'll get into a bit of a discussion about marathon training and what

Speaker 3: (22:14)
Actually if there's a good connection right here because I wrote an article which I a quote unquote diplomatically entitled why marathon runners look like cancer patients. So I know a lot of people listening here are long distance runners and I make zero apologies for that title. Yeah. And I'll tell you why, because I grew up literally on T-bone street next to heartbreak Hill. Now if you do long distance running, heartbreak Hill for the Boston marathon is like Mecca. Like it's, it is, it is the, it is a thing all runners know about. And I was literally up my street growing up and I remember six years old and, and I knew I was going to be a doctor at age six I didn't realize it'd be a natural doctor. I just knew I was gonna be a doctor. And I'll give you an example. I'm standing there with my mother who's also a medical doctor, and I look at her looking at the Boston marathon and people going by, I said, mommy, why do they look sick? And she said, no, no, they're healthy. They're doing marathon. I'm like, mommy, they look sick. Like, no, no, it's good for their heart. They're doing cardio. I was like, mommy, they look sick. All right,

Speaker 2: (23:21)
Have a marathon when they are fatigued. Well,

Speaker 3: (23:24)
No, it's actually, it's not. We weren't like really at the end end of, of the of it was looking at their bodies. It wasn't looking at the fatigue, it was looking at the ratios, their muscle mass ratios relative to their height and they looked like cancer. I didn't know that term at the time, but they look too skinny. Something was wrong. And the relationship is to cortisol. Now I, I learned this from Dr. Mark J. Smith PhD who, who wrote these brilliant primer explaining the physiology in detail. But I'll give you just a super brief summary and if you want more elaborate summary, you can go to my website and read the article and there's a link there. You can also look up the primer from Dr. Smith. But here's what happens is that cortisol as a hormone is designed to keep you alive under under extreme eye threatening situations.

Speaker 3: (24:13)
So cortisol is to basically tell your body to release as much quick to burn fuel as possible sugar in order to burn in your muscles as quickly as possible or to get away from the tiger or the Wolf pack or the bear or whatever your predator choices. So it will, including cortisol will that you wrote muscle tissue to convert muscle protein into sugar in order to keep you alive from the proverbial life threatening predator. Yep. So the problem with long distance marathoning is that what, what's happening is that you don't actually shut off the cortisol response. Jogging actually perpetuates this constant high secretion of cortisol for ending. Even when you stop jogging continues. Whereas with high intensity interval training, you get a spike of cortisol, which you get a concomitant spike of growth hormone and testosterone, which then heals the body, rebuilds the muscles and all the rest of it.

Speaker 3: (25:14)
Assuming you don't overdo high intensity interval training. So that's why I don't teach H I T I teach S H I T safe high intensity interval training or I call shine deploy your podcast off the put a flag on there but say five intensity and we'll train cause people can over do high intensity interval training and the, yeah, because that's something that I went from doing ultra marathons and extreme string on business for 25 years. They know and doing a high intensity short staff, which for a while as well. But both have actually smashed the adrenal, correct? Yes, correct. And that is, that is so typical. And the reason, and here's why. Here's the S safe, high intensity interval training is not an exercise. It's a principle in which you fit exercise into it. The principle has to apply to like my first practice in New Zealand was in the Bay of plenty.

Speaker 3: (26:09)
I had, you know, you know [inaudible] was like [inaudible]. It's basically the Florida of new Zealand's the retirement community for New Zealand and then North on it I have to give instructions to an 80 year old osteoporotic grandmother of how did you save high intensity interval training? If I tell him to do wind sprints, she's going to snap in half. Right? So the principal has to be translated across all ages. Otherwise it's not a principle. So okay, so the principle, again, the details are on on the the blog, on the blog and website, but in short form it's you do a exercise that brings you to a deep muscle burn within a minute or less followed by full recovery. The full recovery bit is what most people miss or they overdid it. Go beyond a minute with the deep muscle burn mostly it's the full recovery bit and you don't do high intensity interval training.

Speaker 3: (27:11)
You do at least one day of rest in between. Most people, what most people, what they do is they do this ridiculous 30 seconds on, 10 seconds off, 30 seconds on 10 seconds of whatever arbitrary number and that is not unique to you. So for me, when I started doing high intensity interval training, I have a specialized stepper and I had no weights that I was doing flies with or whatever. So I got on the stepper minute or less deep muscle burn took me over 40 minutes to recover. Terribly embarrassing terms, really embarrassing, you know, whatever. Fine. I just swallowed my pride and I just kept to that principle of a minute or less to get into a deep muscle burn followed by full recovery. Fast forward a couple months, I am doing the same stepper with 10 kg weights in each arm doing flies and my recovery time is less than five minutes.

Speaker 3: (28:08)
Okay. So what improved? My recovery time went from 40 plus. I just stopped counting after 40 I was too embarrassed the first time to keep looking. You don't get your heart rate going back down to your not heart rate. I wasn't, I wasn't looking at heart rate. It was burn rate and breath rate. Heart rate is fine to monitor, but it's uncomfortable to wear those. Back then it was you, now you have these fancy watches and stuff that make it easy. But back then it was those awful chest straps and yeah, it was terrible. So I, so I look for where the burn rate is gone and the breath rate is normal. If you don't have access to an easy heart rate, even then, I wouldn't even do it if I was still have muscles burning. If I was panting. What happened was my recovery rate improved and my, the intensity I required to get to the same deep muscle burn in the same minute or less improved.

Speaker 3: (28:57)
That's the measure of progress, not how much longer I, I can go and not how much and, and not if I can keep going more for multiple days in a row. That's what makes it safe. Safety is about honoring your own biochemistry. And the reason why it's the minute or less is it cause you watch any David Attenborough special. Okay. And you look at biochemistry, you ha you are an anaerobic glycolysis, which is geek speed for quickly sprinting away, using burning sugar quickly without using your mitochondria, meaning the very efficient longterm energy producing organelle in the cells to generate your energy from the longterm growth repair. I don't know if your life's on the line and Wolf pack is not chasing you down. You're not interested in long term growth. Repair your shouldn't getting away as quickly as you can. Yup. You have a minute or less to get away and that is mapped into the biochemistry of your cells because anaerobic glycolysis is under a minute long. You'll watch any David Attenborough special. How long are those animal chases? How long are they? Less than a minute. But what about the hope

Speaker 2: (30:04)
Since hunting? You know like I mean I did a TV series on we are born to run that we born for long distance persistent type hunting that we always used to do on average around 20 kilometers a day in sisterly speaking from one village to the next or one tribe to the next week. We were doing long distance walking mostly.

Speaker 3: (30:26)
That's it. That's, that's the whole that, that's the key word walking. Yes, I did. I did an, I did an entire presentation on, on walking once. It's about 12 major theories for the emergence of by pugilism. Yep. Okay. There's multiple, multiple converging theories. One of which is the ability to walk down, pray versus sprint them down. And so that's mitochondrial, not an aerobic. Hmm. Okay. And the issue with, when we fear by Peatal, you only have two points of impact on your skeletal system versus four, which is more exhausting for a, a Quadro pet, you know, a horse or a deer or an antelope or a wildebeest or whatever. Additionally, we have less surface or exposure to the sun if we're by pedal. So when the sun's bearing down a quadrupedal, which has their entire back and their neck and their have fur, they're going to get, they're going to basically get cooked.

Speaker 3: (31:23)
They're going to burn up by the sun. Whereas humans, we have way less surface area to get roasted by the sun. In fact, one of the theories, we have an extra hour of hunting per day because of that, that siesta period where the sun is the hottest. We have an extra hour to literally just like walk up and poke a prey. Well it couldn't move it so hot because we, we invent, we can sweat. We've got like there's, there's 12 major theories we can also I mean you can look at Wikipedia is a wonderful article on bipedalism. It's, if people are really want to nerd out on this, I encourage them, go to Wikipedia, look this up. But things like we stand up, you know, a couple animals do stand or temporarily stand, but we like Stan, Stan, Stan, yup. And that also gives us a horizon view.

Speaker 3: (32:08)
Like we can see higher up, we can see farther, we can look down. It also gives us an advantage for watching for snakes, which are a real, real problem for for tree drilling chimps that became land walking, you know, by petals. In fact, you want to get some really kind of mythological here. What is a dragon? A dragon is a Firebrick is a combination of all the things that threatened treat drone chimps over millions of years. Forest fires and lightning strikes, tree climbing, snakes, predatory birds and tree climbing felines. So what's a dragon? It's got the wings of a predatory bird. It's got the tail and head of this tree climbing snake of a tree dwelling snake and it's got the paws and the jaws and the legs of a tree climbing feline and a police fire like the forest fires and the lightning strikes. So that's the dragons and like nearly every culture and like some of these kind of, these motifs are like genetically burned into us and we evolved as a way to compensate for all these major threats.

Speaker 3: (33:20)
When, so with the, with the hunting, going back to hunting you answered it with the walking that that walking is the most single, most sustainable, yet stable, yet strong motion in the entire human nervous system. And there's multiple, like you, you relax and contract basically every muscle. So you have this kind of, it's like respiration. You breathe in, breathe out. So you can do this for long, long periods of time and not [inaudible] get fatigued. So why is jogging, you know like when you're doing ultra marathons, obviously it's very short. It's as a slow, as a slow moving running. Why is that not the same? Because when you're jogging, you're in this kind of purgatory between walking and running. When sprinting rather running's a vague term. I prefer jogging and sprinting and walking. To be clear, to be clear, because when you sprint, you go into anaerobic glycolysis and you create this factually five mechanisms by which you secrete growth hormone as as a consequence when you sprint, you create the hormone physiology to repair and build up your system.

Speaker 3: (34:30)
And this makes total sense. If you're sprinting away from a tiger on Tuesday, you need a hormone mechanism to build you quicker, stronger, leaner, faster. Is that tiger on Tuesday is probably still there on Thursday. Yup. So you're free to run away from jogging, jogging, you, you go faster than walking, but you don't get the growth hormone release. You do. So you erode [inaudible]. It's just because jogging does exist, it doesn't mean it's the healthiest thing to do. Like because we have this intermediate thing between walking and sprinting, it doesn't mean it's healthy. It can be tactically useful, but it doesn't always mean that it's the healthy thing to do. And that's the confusion. Like people think that on training for my sport, well, training for your sport is almost never training for your health. No. Yes, I'd agree with it. And that's the same thing with jogging.

Speaker 3: (35:23)
Is it useful to jog in order to get food to bring back to your tribe? So you sacrifice a little bit of yourself in order so that you and your tribe can survive longterm. Absolutely. Is it, is it safe to run up, run up and try to poke a thing with a stick that has fangs hose or a clause is that, you know, it's, it's but, but there's the sacrifices that are involved and, and there's these intermediate, you know, phenomenon like jogging between walking and sprinting that have found utility even though they are dangerous long term for the individual.

Speaker 2: (36:02)
So, okay. So, you know, I'm coming from an ultra marathon background and I've run into a number of brick walls because of stuff that I have done. I haven't run into problems like, you know, I'm still a very muscular build and I know a lot of my ultra marathon colleagues if you like, and not the skinny marathon runner that's portrayed in the media or is actually a bit of a miss no more if you like. Nowadays it's all sorts of people that they do. And that we [inaudible] change towards the sport in which you are suited as well. So if you, you're saying a sprinter looks healthy and strong and fed up and, and more muscular, but he's chosen that sport because he is that way inclined. I kept Chuggy marathon runner is also, you know, a healthy individual and, but has a different just see the Jane's to Usain bolt.

Speaker 3: (37:02)
So genetics, there is a reality with genetics, okay. That that is a reality. But there's, there's the people that show up to win the Boston marathon. This is where bell curve statistics matter. It's, it's the far, far, far edge of the bell curve that is glamorized and talked about and try to emulate and runner's magazine or whatever, and that's just simply a, an extreme of it all and the reality is is that most of us people are going to do marathon running marathon. Running as a whole is in terms of the cortisol system is extremely unhealthy because it erodes away your muscle tissue. The way you tell the difference between a marathon or an a cancer patient is you look at their thighs. Marathoners still has some thighs, but it has a thighs because that's the only muscle group. It's actually getting real any type of exercise in terms of muscle building, muscle engagement, whereas cancer that everything's eroded equally because you with, the thing with marathon is a cortisol is secreted for such a long period of time so consistently that it erodes the muscle tissue and if people in benefits to doing jogging and marathoning in different senses like they get outside, they get sunlight, they join a huge supportive community.

Speaker 3: (38:30)
There's an entire ecosystem of community support, language, a jargon, a clothing on meetup groups. Food groups, food, like you plug into a tribe. And that has meaning. Like I worked with someone in [inaudible] who was a depressive and he loved his marathoning and the clinical call that I made was keep marathoning because that's where he is with people. He doesn't isolate himself. He's in the sun, he's moving. And I said, we're just going to work on your other nine pillars. But it is, it is more clinically appropriate that you keep marathon because it fits the higher imperative, which is, which is mood. So I'm not an absolutist, a real clinician as a pragmatist, not a perfectionist.

Speaker 2: (39:23)
Yeah. And, and for me, like running and for a lot of my community, a running safe, they're there. They saw, you know, the psychological stuff. For me, it's like my life. I don't think I'd be alive if I didn't have running because of runnings. A power to get you out of the, the, the shit that you run in, in the psychological saints and the depression and the and give you a sense of, of doing something positive. And of course the endorphin high, the runner's high, that you get all of that good side of it. So I'd agree with, with all of that

Speaker 3: (39:55)
And people say what you said, what are this about Brazilian jujitsu or dancing or like, or it's, and the thing is what people confuse is the tactic, whether it's marathoning or jujitsu for the one true way. Sure. And that's where the fanaticism comes in and that's where it gets dangerous. Where people think, Oh my God, you were questioning my running, how Jerry Wade completely change my life. It's like, no, I'm not. I'm not, I don't deny the life changing things that it's done for you. But my job as someone who's in natural medicine is to not ignore the consequences of people going too deep into whatever thing they're doing it with marathoning or something else. And that's why the 10 pillars is a rounded out picture. And what I tell, I'll tell you what I told this gentleman that I helped up in Oakland. Okay. I said, okay, do your marathon, but, but do this for me. I want you to do walk, sprint, walk, sprint a couple of times during it. And then when you get to the finish line, I want you to sprint to the end, into a deep muscle burn and finish there because the anaerobic bursts will help you chew up the cortisol so it doesn't perpetuate after you're done. So it's so you can adapt even marathoning to make it less damaging but still enjoy the other peripherals of enjoying the marathon

Speaker 2: (41:24)
W and we, with our run trading system that we have, we are very holistic in our approach. So we get a lot of birds out, runners coming to us who have done high monitor training. So we, for example, don't do what I call junk miles. And we do the minimum effective dose basically, and we build and mobility work can be Boden. So daily mobility work and, and strength training runs specific strength training so that we can maintain our muscle mass so that we go, yep, it's, it's it's a new approach to the running way of life, if you like. And it's building and some of the stuff that you saying and this is why I love these sort of conversations and being able to openly discuss these instead of going, Oh, well that's not true. And I don't agree with that. It's to say, well, yes, there's there's some different things.

Speaker 2: (42:14)
And what you were saying here is, is I've seen it on my own body. I've seen I've made the mistakes on my own body. And I've, we've, we've worked at a system where people can still do their passion without killing themselves. And that is by building in going anabolic, going strength training, growing by having the right nutrition looking for, you know, the signs of that your body is losing muscle mass. The adrenal whole Dremel sides. Obviously I haven't done too well on that with myself, but it more as from the stress of the last few years I think. Yup. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of your things was having a loved one who's sick and it's differently what's caused my problems or some of them as well as pushing my body too hard because we do from a personality type, in my case, very extremist. So have in the past gone to the absolute, you know, limits of crazy. And that in itself I'm having to moon to it has its benefits because you achieve amazing things, exceptional things, but it also has its price. And as you get older, you start to realize that the extremes like you seed in some way, sometimes it's better to be in the curve in the middle somewhere and not always be on the, the absolute limits. So this is a really interesting conversation and I'm fascinated with the whole adrenal side.

Speaker 3: (43:43)
I'll also, I'll show you a bit more about my particular adrenal journey. So at first I'll describe it for those who are just listening what I'm showing my March, 2015 results and I'm flat lined on my adrenal testing adrenal. This is a four spot adrenal test. There's an upgraded version where there's a six five it's called the cortisol awakening response. We don't have time to go into that, but I'm just going to show you the four spot. Basically, your cortisol has a rhythm where it's highest in the morning,

Speaker 2: (44:06)
Okay?

Speaker 3: (44:06)
Because you need high cortisol to keep sugar in your blood, to keep your brain alive while you sleep because you don't eat while you sleep and then it goes down through the day and eventually it's lowest at night so you can sleep and then arises during your sleep so you can keep your brain alive. I was flatlined and then it got slightly better in March, 2000 when I retested it in March, 2017 I was still super low when I woke up, but my other results were in the normal [inaudible]. Then I bought a year later in February, 2018 I had approximately the exempt, the same results as the March, 2017 despite a much better lifestyle, I had a massive amount of stress. I had the death of my mentor, the, the neurodegeneration of my father with dementia, which is why I came back to the States. And so like, despite much better lifestyle, my, my adrenals basically did not improve. And then I have January, 2019 11 months later, it's now near textbook normal. Wow. Because a, just so much stress of have recovered from so much of the stress in my lifestyle. So continue to improve. So you can see that stress, stress is stress is one of the four of the 10 pillars that can be sledgehammered. Yeah. Okay. So most, so let's, I think it'd be prudent just to cover the 10 pillars and brief. Yup. And then I can speak more.

Speaker 3: (45:28)
I can speak more about there's hope. Yeah. So basically the four, the 10 pillars and briefly brain and hormone system. Second pillar is bowel and digestion. You know, prioritize your poop, do your number twos. So how well do you chew? How well do you poop? You know, common mistakes. People rush eating or they have bad bowel movements or they skip pooping or they ignore gut problems they've got testing. Can check for hidden infections and how well you digest food. Pillar number three is a physical body, which includes old injuries, a bad dental work, which is rife in New Zealand. Fortunately all you know, rugby accident, it was rugby found it was in when I was in New Zealand. I saw demographically for men, the primary source of untreated injuries were car accidents

Speaker 3: (46:19)
A car accidents, rugby injuries and violence between men and for women. It was car accidents via a horse falls and violence from men. Yeah, those are the three. The three main things I saw based on the gender, demographic, gender, demographics for physical injury and body pillar is also genetics. So I run a lot of genetics testing through you know, all these for people, like for people in New Zealand or around the world listening to this. Like I do, I do telemedicine. So like all the test kits or drop ship nutrients or drop ship discussions are had through, you know, phone. I mean it's so far. So like I can help people wherever they are and the test kits can be sent to wherever. And the great company fit jeans that's actually in Australia, but there's a provider through New Zealand and there's, I talk mostly about inflammation.

Speaker 3: (47:14)
The antiinflammatory genes are really important for your runners because people who do who over-exercise this is something really interesting. People who act, the more they exercise, the fatter they get. Yeah. You come across some of these people. Okay. So that's a genetic issue where they over initiate inflammation, they over propagate and they have problems quenching it. So when you exercise, you do trigger inflammation. That's normal. But if you over initiate it and it over propagates and you can't put it out, like instead of a fire hose, you have a squirt gun. Yep. This is where you get inflammatory, get weight gain, inflammatory water, weight gain, like your muscles wash up

Speaker 2: (47:52)
Story. If I'm idea, I ran through Zeeland for charity. So the 2,250 K's and 42 days. Oh my gosh, yes. And I put on weight. I was, and I, that was a turning point for me where I went, what the hell? I'm, I'm, you know, 70 kilometers a day

Speaker 3: (48:09)
And from inflammatory bodyweight loop, that's it. That's what happened is the inflamma it's inflammatory weight gain. It's not caloric inflammatory weight gain.

Speaker 2: (48:17)
Exactly. And that, and I couldn't understand why the hell I thought I would be, you know, really, really skinny by the end of it. And I wasn't and I hadn't even lost a lot of muscle mass, but I had lost, I had, I did gain fat and I was just like, what the hell? This calorie in calorie out businesses are absolute rubbish.

Speaker 3: (48:36)
So you talked about genetics before, is it from the genetics testing you can really help people individualize what type of exercise is best for them. I've completely changed people's exercise routines based on their genetics. I had one, there was an 18 year old in Wellington who was doing bodybuilding and she was addicted to these damn gym bunnies on YouTube. And the more she exercise, the more her muscle tone got washed out and her eczema flared up for psoriasis rather flared up. We ran our genetics. I said, you need to exercise less and rest more because you over inflame, you over propagate and you under clear. Now she was addicted to exercise, which I called her out on as a former addict myself as an act to sugar and video games. Call her out on it and she, it was an uncomfortable conversation but she acquiesced. So she finally cut back on the overexercise and suddenly her muscle tone showed up. And along with the nutrition, the other things I worked with, their 10 pillars, the Sara psoriatic rashes on her arms went away. Now what she didn't do was follow my instruction, is to keep following up with me every month and instead she fell off the wagon because she got hypnotized by those damn gym. Bonnie's on YouTube and it all came back cause she started over-exercising again. And so then we just repeated the process and the, you know,

Speaker 2: (49:55)
Yeah. And we do something called IPI IPI genetics. So pH three 60 with an hour run coaching. And so when I, when I did that run for New Zealand and I realized that there's something wrong here, and we ended up later on getting into epigenetics and I changed, I found that my genes I'm should be doing, you know, boost training, high intensity interval training and dominantly combined with something like yoga and stuff to, to calm the adrenals. We not changed to that. Which I did for a little while religiously. I had, I lost all the way that I was carrying, which wasn't a huge amount that it was for me, you know, annoying. I got Federer. I felt better, I felt stronger. Now the only problem with that was in that I went too much into the extreme intensity. And then, you know, like once again, because I, because of the addiction that I have to over to exercise. And that is a constant battle that I still obviously face. So it's, it's, it's fascinating what you're saying. So the genes, your genes are, every person's genes are different, is what you're saying. And

Speaker 3: (50:57)
The combination, the combination of the gene variance is different.

Speaker 2: (51:01)
And, and, and so not everybody is going to react the same. And as coaches, we find that too that you can give two people the same exercise, the same food, the same thing and one will have the results and the other one won't because their genes are very much a difference.

Speaker 3: (51:17)
Correct. Yeah. So there's, there's not all weight. Not all weight is caloric weight. A lot of it can be inflammatory weight based on lifestyle, based on your genetic combination. So, and then if you've got these other things that can combine, like for example, if men, the more they exercise, the fatter they get and they start developing gynecomastia or colloquially man boobs. When I run genetics tests on that, not only did they have the same inflammation initiation over propagation and poor under clearing of inflammation, they also had issues in their liver and their inability to clear estrogen. So what happens when you combined inflammatory weight gain with hormonal redistribution from excessive estrogen? You get man. Yep. So put, put these gentlemen on an anti inflammatory anti Zino estrogen diet and lifestyle and nutritional program and then they can wait and inflammation. And pain the man boobs go away like it.

Speaker 3: (52:15)
We have to check the genetics to really get clear on what the required lifestyle and what the dosages you might need people, but like some people have a multiples higher need for certain nutrients because of the genetic issues. Like nutrition is not about like I'm going to take this thing as it says on the label. No, if you're genetically, so if you're genetically have a, you know, very unfavorable variants, you may need multiples more, which is why you need a clinician to actually help you interpret this because not just like not everyone responds the same way to exercise. Not everyone responds the same way to nutrition the exact exact same mission.

Speaker 2: (52:54)
So true. So true. And yeah, but that's, that's really fascinating and we are exposed to so many Xeno estrogens now that

Speaker 3: (53:01)
Yeah, that's part of the toxins. Yeah. That's part pillar number five is biotoxins and this isn't, this pill is unfortunately just growing day by day with the amount of exposure and volume of toxins. And it can be, it can be everything from cigarette smoke to heavy metals. As you know, estrogens to Petros to sprays to offgassing of carpets, paints, you know, rugs, new cars or or old cars or whatever it is, preservatives in the foods and wherever you can imagine this one's really tough and the real, the thing that people need to do is not go on a detox. That's not what they need to do because you don't have your other nine pillars in place. Detox can hurt you. It's, I've heard myself doing cleanses prematurely. That's very difficult for the body to cleanse. It's requires a lot working your guts gotta work, your adrenals gotta work.

Speaker 3: (53:48)
You've got to have the right nutrition, you've got to be able to sleep like this. All these other things that have to be put in place. And like the number one things that people can do is like just start eating real food. Just avoid toxic exposure and start eating real food. There are functional tests out there like a mitochondria tests that I run that has checks for six of the liver pathways and, and you want to make sure your pathways are working before you start detoxing. Cause if you don't then you create backlogs and then the toxins get re circulated and get into the organ systems and con all sorts of problems. Same thing with heavy metals. Like a lot of people freak out over heavy metals and really premature. They should focus on helping the other 10 pillars of health first. Well there are nine pillars, then focus on detox, then you've got pillar number six is bionutrients.

Speaker 3: (54:38)
This is all of nutrition. Again, very controversial subject. Everything you put in your body that you need. Fatty acids, amino acids you know, proteins, vitamins, minerals and I also put oxygen and sunlight, which is one of the real benefits of getting out there to jogging or sprinting or walking is that you do get some line in oxygen and that's real. And it's like I said, like if people are so committed to their marathon addiction, there's ways to mitigate the damage. You know, by doing the walk, sprint, walk, sprint. And they can also focus into the nine pillars. Talk around stuff out, like what you described as balancing out with muscle building. Like, that's, that's what I teach people who will not let go of marathoning when it's clearly gone through far. Yeah. And you just, it's a reality. Like people will do what they do.

Speaker 3: (55:26)
So it's like, okay, let's just mitigate this, you know, let's, let's adapt this to your situation. There's lots of stuff that you can do to check for diet. Like you can actually do a genetic test to check to see what your carb tolerance is. Are you suited for Quito, paleo Mediterranean or high carb? You can actually genetically test this like it's called carb choice again by fishing's. Like I lecture on this at the [inaudible] conferences like this is, this is one of my absolute favorite functional tests out there. Completely changed my, I've been teaching diet for 15 years and, and this thing utterly changed my diet for the better. I wish I'd found this out 20 years ago. So all these, this controversy over diet again, you can just do a cheek swab and figure it out. This other technology, again, functional medicine, the best of Western medical diagnostics, this is one of them.

Speaker 3: (56:16)
Genetic testing is one of those diagnostics. And then you use the natural medicine lifestyle interventions to actually change your life for the better. For the longterm seventh pillar is breakfast, which is really about breakfast and routines and habits. Cause I found the majority of my chronically unwell clients and patients, they had crap breakfasts. And so that was my first ebook, which people can still get for free off my website. It's, they had bad breakfast and I found the fastest way to get people to feel better was to fix their breakfast. And I also realized it was about routines, like when some of the sickest people I've ever worked with in my life where shift work nurses, shift work nurses, the single most unwell class of people I've ever met in the broad population of sure like coal miners that are diving into like the depths of like those of course that they're extreme.

Speaker 3: (57:10)
I'm talking about like in the global population, there's so many nurses or five of this shift work. Yeah, just it throws them all off like their cortisol system. We talked about my cortisol tests here. You do general tests for rhythms. The bothers is as a pillar for stress. All forms, whether that's dealing with a sick relative or it's you know, cluttered like Marie Kondo and her life changing magic of tidying up book like that, that's hitting gangbusters cause clutter is a stress, financial stress, emotional stress, relationship, stress, spiritual stress, societal stress and too much news is a stressor. Overwhelmed. Just all these things that this is one of the four pillars that can be sledgehammered bugs or hidden infections. And mold is another one of the pillars that can be sludge and massive food poisoning or a massive tropical inflection. That's, that's your pillar.

Speaker 3: (58:04)
Being sledgehammer can take you down a massive stressor like losing a loved one or losing a job or divorce or a move or something significant. Or like your house, you know, your house having a collapse or a storm that destroys something that's a sledgehammer to your pillar. The other sledgehammers are the biotoxins. You get massively exposed to something acute that can sledgehammer you. The other one is the third pillar of the body pill. You've a massive accident. The car accident or violence or whatever it is, or horse fall, that's a Slack. That can be a sledgehammer. So the four pillars can be sledgehammer, infections, stress, toxins and physical accident. All the rest almost always are crumble. Like you don't get chronically and well from mission. One night of sleep you do. A few of the other nine pillars have been crumbling chronically for the long term.

Speaker 3: (58:58)
And that was the proverbial straw on the camel's back. Yup. So you got them in the 10th pillar is bedtime, which is sleep. So these, these are the 10 pillars and the 10 pillars are, they're designed to they're designed to help round out people's learning and implement. More importantly, the implementation of natural health. Most people get really fixated on one, two, three pillars, and they think that that's health. And that is simply untrue. It's partial and it's all about exercise. No, it's all about diet. No, it's all about the mind. I'm like, yes. And there's seven other things. You've got to look at it. And, and people are chronically unwell or they, they don't understand what's happening. They have to look, get to the rest of the pillars. There's something missing if you're talking about brain rehab, how do you rehab a brain 10 pillars.

Speaker 3: (59:57)
That's how you rehab a brain. And some pillars are usually more important than others in certain certain respects. Like for brain rehabs, sleep is super important, like it's important for everybody, but sleep is real important. A deep sleep, particularly looking at putting them on, usually like intermittent fasting or ketogenic diet is a really useful therapeutic tool. Even if it's temporary to help put rebuild mitochondria basically focusing on mitochondrial regrowth high intensity, it's safe, high intensity interval training would really help, you know, cause if there's growth hormone involved, the two best ways you get growth hormone naturally as high intensity interval training and deep sleep. Okay. There's brain-based nutrients like getting like the, the mitochondria profiles all help with that. Understanding genetics and quenching inflammation is really important. This, this is where things get really nuanced, seen individual. But

Speaker 2: (01:00:55)
Yeah, this is an area that obviously I'm super interested in with mum and trying to get the optimum out of her brain. Antibody. Obviously,

Speaker 3: (01:01:04)
Yeah. And then there's brain-based exercises, like there's specific, that's where things like a functional neurologist comes in. Yup. There are functional neurologists in New Zealand, there's three last time I checked, but there's, there are people who are trained to actually help assess what type of exercises you need to help activate certain regions of the brain that need activation. Because in order to rebuild the brain you need to provide and the nutrition and the background physiology like of, of the hormone system and growth hormone and all this other stuff, then you need to activate the part of the brain that needs activating. More importantly, the part of the brain that proceeds the area of the part of the brain that needs activating. So you have like it, it builds it up. In fact, one way, one way to

Speaker 2: (01:01:54)
Sorry about that guys. It's typical isn't it? It would just keep going. I'm sure that got away in a minute. So maybe it's a calling show, maybe that's [inaudible] give a call and podcasts chain it off on the internet and stuff. So

Speaker 3: (01:02:14)
If people want to understand the brain in very simplistically, but very accurately, the develops from the back forward, from the bottom up, from the middle out. So where's the most primitive part of the brain? The brain STEM. It's the farthest down. It's the farthest back and it's the most midline. What's the most advanced parts of the human brain? The far side of the frontal. Like the front, outer, upper part, like speech. Okay. So if you're going to rehab a brain, you do the exercises from the bottom up, from the middle out, from the back to the front because then you build the foundational because the, the up, the frontal lobes are very fragile. They need to have a stable platform of all the other structures of the brain beneath it and behind it and below it in order to sustain the plastic changes. Yes.

Speaker 2: (01:03:05)
The first part that goes isn't it? Whenever you have a stress response or when you're, you know, like I've noticed with mum whenever anything like heat you can't tolerate heat. Cause their temperature regulation is mucked up and frontal lobes shut down for the ones who have been to description cause she can't function as well as soon as she either hates or any of the things like an eviction, Brian power will go down quicker than your, your I yeah,

Speaker 3: (01:03:33)
Exactly. It's the frontal lobes, the most fragile two and susceptible to hypoxia, which is lack of oxygen to stress, which is a way too toxic. Exposure to sleep deprivation to hidden infections to, you know, your rhythms being off. That's creates a stress response of poor nutrition. The stress that comes, like if your spine is misaligned from chronic untreated injuries or sitting too much, you know, misaligned spine, you don't have to have pain of a misaligned spine. But what happens if a misaligned spine, it creates a stress signal up into the brain, which then creates a global stress response, which then shuts down the frontal lobes. Like there's all sorts of ways that the frontal lobes can be affected and you can map those onto the 10 pillars of health. So my, my invitation to people who are listening to this is that get get my book on biohacker biohacking, which is basically what I just described.

Speaker 3: (01:04:27)
It's like what's the 30,000 foot view? You can get that@drsamshaydotcomdrsamshay.com forward slash bio-hacker get this ebook and you can go through the 10 pillars on your own time. There's a lot more detail in it and there's all the visuals in it. And you know at the moment if, if the way that my practice is set up is like if people want a personal, you know, want personal interaction with me and are interested in working with someone like me who has a system like this. There's information in the ebook of how you can set up a 15 minute chat with me at the time of this recording and no charge to talk with me about your unique situation. And I'll go through like the 10 pillars of health, like the 10 pillars of health is the framework, my, the, the a full proper consult.

Speaker 2: (01:05:18)
That's when someone has to do like there's this online survey that's secure and all the rest of it and it goes through each of the pillars explicitly. Like total number one, 2030 40 questions, pillar number two, blah blah, blah, blah. So it's an education for oneself to go through it, but really it's an efficient way for me to analyze what pillars of the crumbling, when, why, how and where. And then more importantly, what pillars need to be rebuilt in what order to get you feeling better as quickly as possible. Yeah. Then using functional testing like adrenal thyroid, mitochondrial liver genetics, food intolerances, gut parasites, using functional testing to actually clarify how the body has been adapting, what's inflammation or blood sugar free radicals or tissue breakdown and what Oregon systems have been harmed in order to customize the nutrition and diet lifestyle plan. So you can reverse the whole process.

Speaker 2: (01:06:12)
And that's, that's really what I focus on in terms of these 10 pillars. And an I, I've, I've been there with the chronic unwell thing. I did that for well over a decade. Yeah. So you know what we're all going through. Absolutely. And this is a very complicated system. Like you're not going to be able to work it all out on yourself. You might work out some parts of it. And you know, we, we at running hot coaching, which is our company, we are constantly looking for the next, because there is this, this now personalized health revolution that is coming at us and this is a new aspect that we will be able to add to what we're doing and to perhaps we're working with you. And the stuff that we're doing with epigenetics and so on. This is all a really exciting area that people can actually start to take control back.

Speaker 2: (01:07:00)
And this is a really, I think it's super important that people understand that it's the old way of just going to your local doctor and expecting everything to be taken care of is very, is way too simplistic. As you can see, there is a whole lot of other areas that we need to be looking at. We need to take first and foremost responsibility for our own health and, and search out the people that can help you, whether that stock to Sam or other functional medical people or you know, with the likes of what we're doing, all of these aspects can help you achieve optimal health, which is what we're all about really on the show. So dr Sam, I think that's probably a good place to wind it up. Are there any sort of last thoughts so people can do telly consulting with you, they can get the tests done. I can work through this whole process with you. Is there anything that you want to, as a parting cutting comments today? My requests to people is, is to really take some time to learn the 10 pillars. Because what we'll do is we'll contextualize everything you ever have learned about natural health and everything you ever will learn, meaning that you now

Speaker 3: (01:08:15)
Have the roadmap, you have the framework by which to understand everything else ever learned. So you're not, you know, mesmerized or bewildered, overwhelmed or become a fanatic about the latest podcast, news magazine article, whatever's on the morning show or whatever your friend tells you is the latest goji juice. You know, you'll be able to put everything you've ever learned into context of these 10 pillars so you have a balanced, logical, holistic approach and you don't get lost or become a health extremist in any one particular pillar because the 10 pillars, we'll balance it out. Everything will be balanced out and you don't go too far in any direction. And that is a real gift to, to know that you can now slot everything you ever have when everything you ever will learn into a meaningful, easy to understand framework. I know 10 pillars may seem like a lot, but, but I promise you I've studied frameworks, you know, for years and years, like this is the one that is the best combination of learnable, yet comprehensive. And that's what I would encourage people to do. You just, just get the ebook and it's available for free. You also, if you get it, it'll be on my newsletter. All you learn about some of the other, you know, lectures I give online and

Speaker 2: (01:09:35)
Yeah, we can totally resources and all sorts of stuff I can help you with. Yeah. Because we've only just touched the surface of this stuff and obviously it can get quite complex and we could, we could go into some really deeper conversations with [inaudible]. But dr Sam, thank you so much for being on the show today. So everybody go to www.drshay.com If you want them, the ebook, www.drshay.com/biohacker we'll put the notes and the the, the links in the notes. It's been a fascinating ride with you today to understand that just a little bit and some very you know challenging concepts for, for runners, for us to be thinking about. But I think it's really important that we don't put it in the same and just go, I'm going to continue doing the same thing and it's all going to be good because that's when we come unstuck. So understanding the new knowledge and bringing that into your life. And certainly I'm going to be you know, chasing up with mum and whose getting your help with her and trying to take her to the next level. Very much for your time today. Dr Shay. And you know, I have had fun over in Colorado and we'll hopefully we'll see you again. So thank you so much. I really, really enjoyed being here.

Speaker 1: (01:10:53)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at least at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Tom Hickman is a race director with a big heart and strong social conscience.

Founder of the Bali Hope Ultra who has raised over $250,000 for charity in Bali is now in New Zealand joining forces with Kyron Gosse a runner who did the Bali Hope Ultra but whose Aunty was killed in teh Christchurch Mosque Attacks.

Both men were moved to action, wanting to do something, to make a difference in the face of what was New Zealands' blackest day.

They decided to use running as a way to unite people together, to comemorate the victims and their lives and raise money for the Red Cross.

The Unity Ultra is a 51 mile (one mile for every victim) event from Akaroa to Hagley Park in Christchurch and will take place on the 21st of March.

If you would like to know how you can get involved with this wonderful event either as a runner, a sponsor or fundraiser please visit

www.theunityultra.com

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this episode Lisa interviews two Kiwi running gurus Matt Rayment and Eugene Bingham of "Dirt Church Radio" podcast fame.

Matt and Eugene are passionate running advocates and share in this episode their insights from interviewing top athletes and running pros. They share their love of running and what it has meant for them and explore their life philosophies and beliefs.

Matt Rayment lives in Riverhead with his wife and three children. He is happiest out on the trails in his beloved Riverhead Forest with Rigby the Kelpie, however, is passionate about running in all its forms. A latecomer to running, Matt is Intensely curious about the human experience, and works as a Registered Nurse is working in a Consult/Liaison Mental Health team in an Emergency Department. Secondary to this, Matt has worked as the editor of Kiwi Trail Magazine, Good People Run, and as a freelance writer. Matt contends that running and Fugazi saved his life, and he can frequently be found dancing to all the wrong songs.

Eugene Bingham is a husband, father and self-confessed running geek. In terms of the discipline of running, Eugene is the more classically trained of the pair. Eugene loves trails and has the patina of 30 plus years of running on the road deeply etched into him. A journalist for the Stuff Circuit investigative team at stuff.co.nz, he always makes sure there are running shoes and earphones in his bag when he travels. Eugene also loves thinking about what will become of the world, watching sport with his family, and running with his boys (when they let him)

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In this weeks episode Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff talk about the benefits and disadvantages of using the various technologies available to improve your training results and optimise your performance.

From watches to apps and heart rate monitoring they look at the good the bad and the ugly of using these tools.

Here is the link to the blog on the Heart Rate Reserve Method of monitoring your training intensity

https://www.lisatamati.com/blog/post/45209/A-quick-rule-of-thumb-guide-to-monitor-your-training-intensity/

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcript of the show

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisa Tamati.com.

Speaker 2: (00:12)
Hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits once again with my business partner Neil Wagstaff in Havelock North. How's it going Neil?

Speaker 3: (00:20)
It's good. Thanks Lis I am good.

Speaker 2: (00:22)
Good. And we've got another great show for you today. What are we talking about today? Neil

Speaker 3: (00:26)
We're going to be talking about using technology. Technology is a great thing. It can be a scary thing. It can be something that can, we can use to our advantage but also if it's used inappropriately it can, it can really slow us down with, with getting the results and performance we want.

Speaker 2: (00:41)
Yeah. So technology and we have to qualify that in regards to training. Now we're talking about, I'm using technology didn't relate here unnecessary evil in our world, but we are actually going to be talking about things like your Watchers, your heart rate monitors and your strivers and net, my runs and, and apps and, and that type of thing. And how to, how to use it and what benefits they bring, the pros and the cons of doing it. And how we use it a little bit with our athletes, with some of them and not with others. And why that is. So Neo, what watch do you use for starters? What's your favorite?

Speaker 3: (01:18)
I'm a Garmin fan. I've been a karma fan probably for past four or five years now. And it allows, it gives me the information I want and I'll find the, eh, for the length of runs I'm doing it, it gives me, gives me good battery life, a lot of the accuracy and a lot the lot of feedback it gives me.

Speaker 2: (01:35)
Yeah, I've got a Alma Gammon girl toe Garmin four runner two, three five as my one. And I'm not a big statistic person generally, so like you're a lot more statistics orientated than they may personality wise, but I still find it things like, you know, your sleep and your sleep quality and how deep you are sleeping and some of those sort of aspects. Good. As well as your heart rate monitor when you're training. But I don't get absolutely hung up on all the statistics like some people do and some people that, so that's a benefit. So we're both Garmin fans but there are a lot of other great watches out there, some too well some of the others polar you know, having a watch that as a sport orientated, watch that you can use it whether you're doing lap times, if you want to control your heart rate all of these things can be beneficial.

Speaker 2: (02:24)
List. Talk a little bit about heart rate monitoring, how you can use that to monitor the intensity of your training. We've just put up a blog on our website, at www.lisatamati.com which looks a little bit, it was a quick meant to the quick guide to how to sort of workout how intense your training is based on your age. And this is a bit of a, you know, a guide, not to be Satan concrete, but Neil, do you want us to discuss that a little bit and how that happened? Yeah,

Speaker 3: (02:58)
Let me, I mean the beauty of beauty of watches these days is if you're giving the watch tracker your information, so you, when you set up your watch, it'll ask you if you're age and ask you if your resting heart rate ask you for various different types of information. So the watch will give you very good idea on training zones anyway. What we're not so good at a lot of the time is following those. So if your watch tells you you need some recovery, then listen to what it's what it's saying. So the, the idea being that once you got your heart rates in there, then if your program says you should be doing a high intensity interval training session, then you're going to be operating up at 85 90% of your, your max heart rate. If you should be doing a recovery run. And that could be lower down at 55 60 maybe top 65% of your maximum heart rate.

Speaker 3: (03:44)
So the beauty of the watch is it will give you all that information so you can use the watch based on your programs. So right, these are the designs and areas I want to work in. If you're not using a watch though and you just want a snapshot of how hard you should be working, then you can use some simple formulas out there. We use the heart rate reserve method or Caveda method. And what we're looking at there is I'm just doing a simple two 20 minus your age punched only two 20 minus your age. You then take off your heart rate and so your resting heart rate and work out your percentages from there. And most people would recommend your workout from 60% up to 90% in 5% increments. And then you simply add back on your heart rate so that your resting heart rates that number and it'll give you training zones.

Speaker 3: (04:28)
So easiest thing to do with that is refer to the blog. Lisa can put that in the show notes just that day and that take you through, walk you through how to do it and it gives you an idea of where you, where you should be working. Where this becomes really useful is if you've been struggling with runs or you feel like you could get more potential out of your body, then actually doing either a full max heart rate test or actually seeing how your heart responds on a run. It's a really useful way to work out. Are you really getting best bang for your buck? Good example is when we, when we ran when we ran across the country for for Samuels trust and a few years back, I'm, I'm notorious for going out quick and really focusing and this is a good example of, of how not to, not to use a be watch.

Speaker 3: (05:13)
I become very focused on my case per minute. Okay. So I'm flexing, right? I, I want to say that, for example, a five minute case and that's, that's what I want to want to be doing. So if I'm, if I'm doing that, then that's fine. Up to a certain distance. If I need to be running longer than that's gonna hurt me. Yeah. So what we're very, very well for me with heart rate is going right, I need to be operating at a much lower heart rate. So if I am operating at around one 35 one 40 beats per minute and I know regardless of pace I'm going to be good for a long distance because I can, I can hold that. So bringing in heart rate into the mix there really does start to, it made my training more effective. I didn't worry about speed, I worried about right a stand the zones I set my set, my watch to beep if I went above it and then no worries on how fast it was going.

Speaker 3: (06:02)
I needed to know that I could last a long time and a long, a long period. So use it for your, for your goal. At the moment I'm running a lot shorter and I'm more interested in getting results for my four four and five K times. So I'm more interested now in taking the data out and going, right. I want to know the heart rate zone. I should be pushing hard for some of my runs and it should be up in the 85 90% effort. More importantly, I can keep an eye on how fast my Kayser and then again on top of that from a technique and performance and efficiency point of view, where's my cadence at? So I know if I can push my cadence up, my efficiency is going to get gonna get better and therefore I'm going to be going to be getting closer to my goal. So use the information in particular heart rates we're talking about here to apply it to your goal. Okay. Apply it to your goal. If you're getting warning signs, like you're going out and doing a recovery run and it's showing you that you are 70, 80, 90% of your max heart rate. Something's not right either with the technology or your body.

Speaker 2: (07:00)
Yeah. And this is actually we, the has a little bit of limitations and I know that I,n my my life is, is I don't actually conform to the, the age thing. So 220, minus my age, I, if I'm running it there and then trying to do 60 to 80% of that, then I'm actually in the anaerobic zone according to that a whole lot of the time. So it's a general rule of thumb and it doesn't always give you a completely accurate results. So sometimes like I'll be operating at a higher heart rate than I should be, but I know that I'm actually aerobic and I know that because I've got enough experience to, to know where my body is going in and out.

Speaker 3: (07:43)
With a lot of our one on one clients and there's a couple I've done this with in the past. The past few weeks is we send them out to do a max heart rate test. This can be done on there's no need for it to be done in lab conditions, which isn't practical for most people. So we use a field test we put in place, which are people interested in. We'll send you the guidelines on what the field test is and then that will give you a true maximum heart rate. Once you got the true maximum heart rate, then we work out the percentages from there. And in both of these, these clients' cases once we've got the true maximum heart rate, we then started getting more bang for their buck from their interval, the interval sessions in their threshold sessions. Because all of a sudden we were pushing up a beat cause like you were their age, they weren't, they weren't falling into the averages. So if you're interested in that, what you've got to be willing to do with that though is with the field test you've got, you've got to be comfortable, get pretty much going to your, to falling over.

Speaker 2: (08:36)
Yeah. And which isn't much fun. But yeah, because there is that, that role of some role of 220 minus your age, you know, can be completely skewed if you're a particularly good for your age, hopefully that's what it's showing me and it's therefore not quite appropriate. So just understanding the limitations of the test. And then using it to your best advantage. And the other side of the side of that coin is that you can become so tied up with the science. And we have some, some of our athletes, a lot of stuff, very much, well looking at the genetic profiles, most of them are crusaders like you kneel and I'm very analytical, very do you want to know about those different buyer types? And if your genetics we can take you through that one day. But very analytical, very statistic buys, very wanting to have all that data and want to be able to work completely with data.

Speaker 2: (09:30)
And that works for some people, but other people, they find that completely intimidating. They don't want to know all that. They just want to be able to run it and joy and you know, and, and sometimes people get a bit obsessive with the statistics and that can become a actual negative as well because you can be so focused on that you're not actually listening to your body and not actually actually feeling how am I actually feeling right now and should I be pushing this? So it's, it's having the, the, the experience and the wisdom a little bit to use a technology to your advantage but not to, not to be a slave to the technology and, you know,

Speaker 3: (10:05)
Totally, totally agree. One of the ways I've I've overcome my obsession and addiction with numbers is I I, I I no longer plug my, my, my watching, I plug it in to charge it, but I don't save any of the data or download any of the data. I don't actually look anymore at this point in with where I'm at, cause I use the watch to see where I'm at on my run and then I won't compare runs from previous runs or anything like that. I just look at where I'm at on the day. I use our wellness check with all our clients. So you get a subjective view before I leave for my run. Where am I at from a nutrition point of view, a stress point of view or hydration point of view, movement, niggles, injuries. And then I, I take all that and go, right, I'm feel good to go.

(10:47)
My scores are good and then I'll just keep an eye on Watchers. I'll go, but I won't any more. Use it as a to go back and track track data sometimes. I that's useful. And for some of, as you, so for some of our opponents we do do that because it gets some great results, but it's very important, which is what you're alluding to is that you use it to your advantage.

Speaker 2: (11:07)
Yeah. You'll personality chart. Yep. You know, and you make it work for you. And the other, the other danger was things like, you know, or I met my run and Cobra and all those apps that monitor your, you know, your kilometers, you're doing the speed, you're doing it at the, the, the road that you're taking and the comparisons to last week. And then you've got all the comp, the competition that comes out through that. And like, I know my husband finds that great. He loves it. You know, he's always putting his stuff up on striver and comparing how he did last week on that road to how someone else's doing. And comparing where he's on the ranks and all that sort of crap. Whereas I just not interested in that. And the, the problem that can come with that is then that you come, you very much come painting every time you go for a training and you're not actually doing what's on your actual training pain, which said you should be going out for cruisy day recovery day and then you're going fast.

Speaker 2: (12:01)
Cause you don't want anyone, it's think you can only run X amount of minutes per kilometer. And so you get too competitive and you're not actually following the structure of the plan, if that makes sense. And the flip side of that is also that a lot of people just want to collect kilometers for their strava account because if it doesn't, if it's not on, strava it didn't happen. This is a bit like Instagram, you know, life didn't happen if it wasn't on Instagram. And that mentality can also trip people up because you know, you're, you're, you're not doing it for the right reasons and you're not, you competing all the time rather than actually having a benefit. And what's most important is that you realize that strength training and mobility training, which is what we preach all the time, is also iPod and you are training. So if you're if you're getting an extra 10 K's a week, but you've sacrificed to strengthen your mobility, you gotta be way worse as a runner in the long run than if you had done those.

Speaker 3: (12:59)
And that's the, I mean that's, that's the beauty of our app as well. Cause you can use strava. Yes. That's actually should be our by line. If it, isn't on running hot app it didn't happen. We can connect to our app strava and Garmin. So you can not only see the runs, you see the mobility sessions completed and the and the strength sessions completed as well. But, but getting that balance, getting that balance as you say is, is key. But just want to come back to the personality types a bit as well, if, because again, for some people who are going through the pros and cons and there's not going to be, we're not gonna give you a perfect answer at the end of this podcast saying this is how to do it.

Speaker 3: (13:44)
We just want to make you very aware that what you should be paying attention to. The other thing that some people get great results from has been part of the community. So as a big part of what our business and running hall is built on, it's been in part of the community where you get support. So the technology can provide that as well. It can help you do that. If you are part of a community, if you are sharing it on Strava, if you're part of a sharing through Garmin, if you're doing it through running halt, then it does, it does definitely help with allowing you to know that you've got that support and accountability around you.

Speaker 2: (14:15)
Yeah, absolutely. And so once again, using it to your advantage and you know, so without at, so we have a you know, an a mobile friendly app that you can, you have on your phone and you can use it when you go out and you'll get all your mobility workouts, all your strength workouts as well as your run station. So it's not just counting your kilometers and ignoring the other thing. So it's actually quite good when you have it on your calendar. Yup. Tech, tech tech. I did, I did my mobility, I did my strength and I did my actual run stations to where strap variety counselor kilometers. I so that, that's really important. I think. So. what else? You know what I was sort of technology stuff is out there. Neo and what else do you use? I mean like this, you know, running with music, running

Speaker 3: (15:00)
Well I'll use, yeah, I use when I'm, when we started creating our programs like five years ago, at least as part of creating the programs weren't for the process of checking they were. And one of the, one of the things we built in one of our foundation programs was using a metronome. So for five weeks on our foundation one program, I literally ran with a metronome to make sure that the intervals were putting together the sessions we were putting together. They worked, they did what they said on the packet and they got the results they they should. Once I tested it, we then tested it, well the people and does it work and as we built the, built the programs up, that's that's how it was done. So running with a metronome is great. If you're looking to increase cadence and efficiency and run more constantly injury free, you can download. We use one from frozen eight you can download a simple metronome, put it on if you want to do what I did and remember the beep in your ear. That's reasonably insane. Way to do it. If you'd rather listen to some music on now I now use, I just got onto a Spotify list

Speaker 2: (15:57)
and I will download run music for 180 beats per minute.

Speaker 3: (16:01)
You can do it 170 and there's various different options on there. So do a base test, which you can easily do straight away. Go out and count your cadence, how many times you've put such as a four in one minute. Tom's about to, you can do it off your left foot, your right foot, and then see where you're at. If you want to increase it slightly, go and get some music. If you're at one six, eight go and get some music that

Speaker 2: (16:21)
Susan, one 70. Yeah. So what is the, what is a good cadence? You know, like I'm for people who don't understand what cadences are speeding your feet that are turning over and then the last time you were actually on the ground, the more efficient your running stylists. So if you're planting your foot and again you've got a very slow and big long strides but slow, steep and you're putting all the weight into the ground each time, then you're not going to be as efficient as someone who's just you know, like running on hot coal was a few like and going very fast with the legs. Smaller, smaller steps perhaps, but they're going faster. That's what you call a high cadence. And that coupled with all the techniques, stuff helps you run faster basically in run more efficiently energy. And you know, that's a topic for another day as forms and drills and so on. But so what is a good cadence in your answer?

Speaker 3: (17:11)
going go on and look now, then they probably get around that they can, well, they work, they get around the 180 plus and some of the stuff that people will read and again, don't, don't get hung up on it. Another example we're talking on technology you shouldn't get hung up on is you know, if the 180 is the sweet spot and anything above that, then great that there's great evidence there that shows that. However, what we'd rather you do is see where you right now. So we are fans of meeting you where you are at right now and then helping you improve from there. We've had great wins with people improving their cadence from one six eight one seven five and now they're running pain free, no injuries. And the pain that they had had is gone.

Speaker 3: (17:56)
And they're quite comfortable. Do they need to get up to one I80. they might get small wins, but if they're happy where they are, it's about the individual. So please, when you're looking at all your numbers on your watch, your heart rate, your speeds, your cadence, however you're doing it, and whatever type of technology are you using, please use yourself as the baseline. Don't worry about what anyone else is doing and understand, which we've talked about on other podcasts. Your why. So don't worry about, I speak, we speak to a lot of people that want to get here because that's what, that's what the world says I should do. That's what you're told. You do get to where you want to be because it's your purpose and it's your why and understand that yeah. Improving cadence will help. Having a bit of a heart rate will help, but it should be better in relation to where you want it to be too.

Speaker 2: (18:43)
Yeah. Yeah. We don't want to have to be an Olympic athlete so we can stop. Where we are at, and it's comparing you to you always, and we're very big on that anyway. That it's not about comparing yourself to every other person on the planet. It's about, you know, doing, doing the base for your body at this time and for your goals that you've got. Sit out for us. What other technology? I'm just trying to rack my brain of different technologies that are out there. I mean, what's your take on running with music? In regards, like for safety on like not a great fan of, of wearing headphones or having things in your ear when you're running on roads and stuff. And even on, even in the Bush, like if you've got both ears covered, I sometimes run with like one athletic in one ear.

Speaker 2: (19:30)
It's, you know, I like to be aware of my surroundings and you're just sometimes with your toe into the music and it can be really motivating. It can be really good, but you watch out for traffic. Right. Cause you know, I have been hit once and, and when I was running through New Zealand in Oakland and I had my things on and I just didn't hear this car come around the corner and hit me. Luckily I wasn't injured, but you know, it could have been different. And that's cause I hate the things in my ear. And even in nature, I like to, there's this subtle things that your brain picks up when it's actually tuned into your environment and when you put in something in your ears and it can broke out that part of the perception that's on their almost subconscious level. And you can, you know, not hear the, somebody coming up behind you or this, you know, those sort of things. So just being aware of your safety or at all times if you have got stuff in your ear.

Speaker 3: (20:23)
Yeah, correct. That's , and again, it will be very personal. It'd be very much down to people's people's health type profile and where they're at, what weights, what makes them right. But I think the key message there from, as you say, is make sure it's, it's safe. It's and you aware the environments around you. If you really are gonna need your senses, then don't block them. But if you're running in a safe environment that you know, you know where you're going, you know what you're doing, your notes, you know it's very safe then and music helps you then then use it to help you. It definitely helps me. I'm a huge fan of running your music but there's certain times or a one if I'm running certain areas or yeah, place, I don't know. But it does that, it allows me to relax and get into my, in smaller [inaudible]

Speaker 2: (21:12)
I was just going to go to a, in regards to technology

Speaker 3: (21:17)
And I've lost my train of thought. I think the, the, the bits we've covered there leaves with the, you know, the, the main ones of what is the main message we wanted people to take away from this was understanding how to use it to your advantage, understand the, how to apply it to your to your programming, to your goal, to your why. And I think what you mentioned there as well, the, the so many apps out there to help you with your, with your running, with your, with your fitness, with your health fits, choose things based on your why. I think it should be the, the clear message. If you're going to add a tool into the mix with your training, the tool should help you get to your why, your goal, your purpose a whole lot quicker. If the tool is you're just adding it in because everyone else is using it, then if it's not going to give you any value, don't use it if it gives you value personally and that's where we can help because for some people with our programming where we're so right, heart rate training is definitely for you.

Speaker 3: (22:16)
For others, we wouldn't even, some people, some of our clients I've actually told to throw the Watchers way but more, we don't want to put it away in a drawer. You're not using that for the next six months because it's confusing issue. Yep. Others we say, right, you need to go and buy a watch. But that's because it's very relevant to their, to their why and what they want to achieve. So when you make new choices, make it based on what you want to, what you want to achieve.

Speaker 2: (22:37)
Listening to your body is always a good message. I think that's probably covered that set subject. Any last words that you wanted to put up and then any other areas that you wanted to cover off under this?

Speaker 3: (22:50)
No, I don't think we were just bringing people back to full circle to what you finished with there on our a wellness check. So do what you're getting from a technological point, technology point of view. Please, please, please listen to what your body's saying. So our wellness check allows you to do that from a very subjective point of view. So going through a simple checklist of where your body is at each day, we'll let you know where you're at. Trust your trust your heart, and trust your gut with your decisions as well. And that's probably a whole, whole another side.

Speaker 2: (23:21)
That's the whole another subject. At the moment studying. Yeah. Are you

Speaker 3: (23:28)
Making your decisions? They, your gut will tell you things. Your brain tells you things and your heart definitely tells you things. But those are those three things where you're making your decisions and includes around the technology. The technology might be worth telling you one thing, but the gut, the heart, the brain one, all three might be telling you another, don't stop listening to this because

Speaker 2: (23:48)
We've got the technology

Speaker 3: (23:49)
Well, the technology say tell you something. No one knows you better than you. I don't care what any coach says. Any thoughts or any health professional, the person that knows you better than anyone else's you. So you, you've got all the answers. You just need to choose which tools you're going to take to get those answers. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: (24:07)
And you need to trust your instincts and your intuition and use the need to understand when you're being just lazy or when you've been actually sensible. You know? And this is what the wellness check helps people do. So for those who haven't heard us talk about our wellness chip before, it's just basically a spritz switch spreadsheet that you look at every day. That ticks off is an eight different areas I think. So hydration, nutrition, sleep your stress levels, whether you got any injuries and you're writing yourself on a scale of one to 10 now one being not so good, 10 being on point. And if your hydration and nutrition and you had a bad sleep and you had been stressed to hell at work and you meet to go out and do a really intense long session, then that's not a good combination. So you might want to shift days around.

Speaker 2: (24:50)
And so this gives us a a day by day a taste, a few like a quick one minute taste to say, yep, these are my numbers and Whoa, I'm not doing too well today. I'm feeling a little bit often. My hydration wasn't good and I had a really shitty nights and order this for the staff and then I probably shouldn't go and smash my body on top of it. In the past, I used to, if I didn't feel good, I used to go harder. You know, if I, if I had had a couple of drinks a day before, then I'd gone special South, even worse because I'd been bad. There's actually a really dumb thing to do cause your body's already under stress and you're actually overstressing on top of the streets. And the number one intimate of performance is stress. The number one enemy of, of everything alive as stress.

Speaker 2: (25:37)
If we have too much stress in our bodies, our digestion doesn't work properly, our immune system doesn't work properly. Intuitive nature doesn't work properly. And Brian Stein say everything, it's got tunnel vision. You can't make decisions. All of these things. So we don't want to be adding to the streets liberals in their body. We want to be working with optimizing our performance and this wellness cheek. I'll put a link in the show notes or you can contact us to get one of those as well. But that's a really good subjective way. You know, old SKO, not part of technology but just a subjective way to test everything.

Speaker 3: (26:13)
But if your technology laces, if you're, the technology you've got is doing the job, it should, when you test you, when you go through that subjective score, you, if you get it right and you've got in tune with your body, and that's the whole point of going through this we want are the people that are working with us and the people that are listening to us to be in tune with their body. If you're in tune with it, then you've got this right and your scores are low, your watch should be telling you you need sleep and rest. If you, if you, if you scored high, then you'll look at your watch and say, yeah, go run and go and go heart. And that's what important want to get. Where we want to get everyone to is that they're that in tune, that they listen to the body, that that needs the technology. But the technology is just confirming that this is, this is, this is good. You're doing well.

Speaker 2: (26:55)
It's better to go to a yoga session today, then go into a city, Karen maybe, right?

Speaker 3: (26:59)
Yeah, and vice versa. Sometimes it's best thought. You go out and you do your 30 K run cause everything's stacking up as it should.

Speaker 2: (27:06)
Yeah. Alright, well thanks Neil. It's been a great little subject for the today's podcast. I hope you enjoyed that. Just a heads up guys. I had the real great privilege them a couple of days ago being on a do at church radio and just want to give a plug to met and a Eugene over at [inaudible]. It's radio. Fantastic Comcast. Make sure you go and check out that episode that I did with them and also all of their other great guests that that had on there. I think the guys are brilliant. I'm going to have them on my show shortly. So watch out for that and yeah, make sure you go back and check out all the other great podcasts episodes that we've done on here. We've had a couple of great weeks with JJ Virgin last week and Tom Cronin, who's the producer of the portal, a massive worldwide huge movie coming out very, very soon.

Speaker 2: (27:52)
So you don't want to miss out on all that action. And if we can ask you guys a favor, please go and do a writing and review for the show on iTunes. That really, really helps the show get exposure, get a better rating and all those things are really, really important for the show. So if you enjoy that and you like what we do in the content that we've reduced sets away that you guys can help support the show and we'd really, really appreciate it. And there's always, if you want to reach out to Neil awry, you can reach us either via the website. Just go to Lisa@lisatamati.com. Hit us up on the contact buttons here. You can or you can just email me at least the, at least at lisa@lisatamati.com or neil@runninghotcoaching.com. Okay. All of those things will find us. We're pretty easy to reach. We're on all the social media, at least lisatamati on Instagram. Lisa Tamati on Facebook and yeah, really easy to find and please reach out to us if you've got any questions or we can help you with your journey. We'd love to do that. And we'll see you again next week guys. Thanks Neil.

Speaker 1: (28:54)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at least at www.lisatamati.com.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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JJ Virgin is a 4 x New York Times Best Selling Author, TV show Host, Triple Board certified Celebrity Nutritionist and a warrior mum.

In 2012 JJ's 16 year old son Grant was the victim of a hit and run accident and was left barely hanging onto life, after weeks in a critical condition and defying all the odds he slowly emerged from his coma with major brain trauma and 13 fractures and a near torn aorta.

JJ was told from the outset he wouldn't survive the first night, that he wouldn't survive the airlift to the hospital, that he wouldn't survive the operation and that if by some miracle he did his brain damage would make it a life not worth living.

But JJ is a fighter and she decided from the outset that her son would survive and thrive and that she wouldn't rest until he was 110%. The years of rehabilitation and the strategies she used to get him there is what we share in this interview.

This powerful story resonated with me because I have been through the same experience with my mother and I too refused to give up, had to advocate for her rehabilitation and took a multple pronged approach to her recovery as did JJ with her son.

This incredibly powerful woman is a testament to what the right mindset combined with love, belief, faith and the ability to build a team around her can do to beat the odds.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcription from the show.

Speaker 2: (00:02)
Well, hello everybody. It's Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits today. I have a really wonderful special guest with me all the way from Tampa in Florida. She's an absolute superstar of a lady. She's a celebrity nutritionist, four times New York Times best seller fitness hall of Famer and she's also a warrior mum and she has a very interesting story today that we're going to delve into both in her career and what she's achieved but also,uwas ubrain injury in regards to his son grants. We had a hit and run x events. So welcome to the show JJ. It's fantastic to have you. Thank you. Good to be here also.

(00:42)
So JJ, I just want to start a little bit of it with a background. If you wouldn't mind sharing, what you do and your, your books and your work a little bit. That'd be fantastic.

Speaker 3: (00:54)
All right. I am a nutrition and fitness expert and so I've got a bunch of books I've written over the years. Online programs. I speak, I do TV. I had a couple, I was kind of helped start reality TV because I was on Dr Phil's weight loss challenges for two years. It was really when that whole thing was kinda getting going. Then I had my own show on TLC called freaky eaters. So I've been really fortunate to just be able to work in something that I'm super passionate about, which is anything related to health and wellness. And then I also have an organization where we help other doctors and health experts get their message out to the world called mindshare.

Speaker 2: (01:37)
Oh Wow. And that is something that we definitely want to delve into a little bit too. So now I want to go back to you've got two sons, Bryce and Grant and in 2012 Grant was the victim of a hit and run accident. Can we share a little bit about that story and what you sort of went through with him and you know, it really resonated with me, your book and your story because a lot of the same dramas that you have over there, it was with the system a few like we have here as well. Probably even worse, the speaks and you had to be a real fighter and therefore the title of your, your book sort of really resonated with me as well. So can we go into that story a little bit and tell us what happened with Grant?

Speaker 3: (02:29)
Yeah, it's really a story I realized after the fact. It's really a story about what it takes to be a caretaker and I think that's important to underscore because it's a role all of us will have to play, right? I mean, at some point in your life you're going to be taking care of kids, you're going to be taking care of your parents. Maybe you're taking care of both at the same time or a spouse or siblings. So it's, it's one of those roles in life that you will probably face and how you show up during that role can make the difference between life and death for that person. So and also you know, how you show up is going to make a difference on your personal health too. So the grant was 16 years old. My other son was 15 years old.

Speaker 3: (03:15)
Bryce and grant went out to walk to a friend's house one night and got hit by a car and I didn't see this. A neighbour didn't see him getting hit. He just saw him lying on the street. You saw this woman get out of her car, gasp, get back in and drive off. And he then called nine one one and he was airlifted to the local hospital. When we got there, they told us that he had a torn aorta and it was going to rupture sometime in the next 24 hours unless it got repaired. But that he would never survive the airlift to the next hospital. They couldn't repair it there. He would have to, but that he wouldn't survive that. And even if you were to survive that, he would most likely not survive the surgery. And even if you were to survive that, he'd be so brain damaged.

Speaker 3: (04:07)
It wouldn't be worth it. I mean, literally they said that, I remember looking at this doctor going, he didn't, did he say that? And My 15 year old looked at the doctrine, he said, well, maybe like, is there a 0.25% chance he'd make it because the doctor already said his aorta was going to rupture sometime in the next 24 hours. And the doctor said, that sounds about right. Bryce could looked over at me. That's not zero. You know, and we're like, we'll take those odds. And because I think any, any parent out there or anyone who loves anybody would have to agree that as long as there's a chance, even if it's the teensiest little chance, like you've got to go for it, you know, you've got to fight for it. I mean, the idea that I was gonna let my son die here, there was absolutely no way I was going to do that.

Speaker 3: (04:52)
So we overruled. This doctor. Had Him airlifted. He survived the airlift, went through surgery, he survived that surgery. Now when he came out of the surgery, he had a stint in and he was, his aorta was fine, but he was in a deep coma. The neurosurgeons were like, we don't know if he'll wake up. And I remember standing in the hospital and he had 13 fractures. He was in this deep coma, multiple brain bleeds. And there were like literally Lisa, two little fingers I could hold on to everything else was either covered with road rash. It was bandaged shoes and cast. And I was standing there holding this little fingers and I said, grant, you know, I love you so much and nothing, you know, just the beeps of the machine he had, he was on a respirator, he had a central line. So it was all these things being monitored.

Speaker 3: (05:43)
And then I said, and your brother Bryce loves you so much. And I felt the littlest fingers squeezy and Huh. And then I said, you know, grandma loves you so much, nothing. And I said, your girlfriend Kenzie loves you so much. And that's when I felt this big by my hand getting picked a little bit up. And I said, you know, grant, you're going to be 110% your name means warrior. I got this. I've got so many friends in the business who can help, but I need you to fight. You've got to fight, you've gotta hang on for me and your name means warrior. Turns out. So I said, you just got to you. You've got to fight all, handle the rest and we're going to get you to be 110% and I just lived that 110%. I was so afraid to let anything else get into my brain that, that you know, the what ifs.

Speaker 3: (06:31)
Like what if he doesn't wake up? What if he can't walk away? I just, cause I felt like if I thought it, it would happen. So I've always been one of those people who believes that you can, you can create your reality. And I just managed my mindset. I stay focused on the 110% and you know, and there are a lot of times in there, things were not looking like they were even gonna make it to like 30%. You know, I'm much less a hundred, much less this like unrealistic number that doesn't exist. But I will tell you today, after being told that he would never survive an air lift or surgery, he'd be so brain damaged. He'd never wake up, he wouldn't walk, he couldn't hear like over and over and over again. He is better than before that accident is so, and you know, it has been this thing in our life that has made all of us in the family so much better and stronger because now you know, the, the things that would average most people would get rattled about, the average person would get upset about, they don't even like, they don't even trick, trick trigger us at all.

Speaker 3: (07:39)
Like we're like, Eh, no one's dying here. You know, and I'm sure you relate, right? I mean like stuff like this, you realize the stuff that people let get them upset on a regular basis. It just doesn't, who cares? You know,

Speaker 2: (07:57)
Actually. Yeah. And I mean, I've, my lesson is, know my story with my mom and very similar, not gonna survive if she does miss and brain damage, if she, you know, when she did wake up after weeks in a coma sh lights on, nobody home

Speaker 2: (08:16)
Years and years of rehabilitation and we're out a story's cross. And why this is so important for me is that you never gave up. You keep your mind on the know. Exactly. I had that 110% in my head too when I go around still saying that. And my mom's only at 90%, so I wa I've still got a wee way to go. But in their whole process, it's not that you don't have doubts and disappear and times where you're on the ground crying going, oh my God, how am I going to get through this? But it's keeping it standing back up every time,

Speaker 3: (08:48)
Every time. And Hey, here's the thing, Lisa. So you went for 110% and got to 90

Speaker 3: (08:55)
That's a lot better than the zero they were giving you. Right. You know, like you look at it, I kept thinking, oh, I'm going to go for 110% if I get to like wherever I get to is better than the zero that they, the 0.25 they gave me. So you know, you just gotta keep going. And by the way, it's only been recently that he really has been getting to this hundred and 10% I just figured as long as he's alive, there's always something else I can do. It's something amazing I can do. So he is now better than before the accident. But now I'm not showing, you know, we're just going to keep

Speaker 2: (09:27)
Pushing. Exactly. And you've got to, you've got to keep that focus. One of the things, the, the title of my book that's coming out is called relentless. And that's exactly what you have to be is totally and utterly real. And I know, and with my journey, I came up against a huge opposition to the way that I was wanting to rehabilitate my mum in both the resources that I wouldn't try to get hold of. In my approach, I was criticized a lot for why are you putting you through such a rigorous and difficult training regime? Why don't you just let it be comfortable and know

Speaker 3: (10:07)
Rest, no wrestling cupcakes and just let her be

Speaker 2: (10:10)
Exactly. Cupcakes and this, I mean, I'm a ultra endurance athlete. I've been an athlete my entire life and I know so we, you know, do 200 300 kilometer races and things and I know how to overcome when your mind is trying to stop you. I know that people are capable of so much more than what we think we are. Yeah. What I have issue with, I understand that the medical professionals do not want to give you false hope, but to take away your hope creating. Huh. Any hope makes you have a weak action. Like you're not going to fight because you don't believe there's a waste at home. You know, here's the thing.

Speaker 4: (10:55)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (10:55)
No one can take our hope away.

Speaker 4: (10:57)
Cool.

Speaker 3: (10:59)
So what we've really got to manage is, is we're, we, we're putting people in the wrong places. What you're going when you're going to a doctor is you're getting an opinion. You can do what you want with the opinion. That's what you're getting as an opinion. You know, like the opinion of the doctor at the first hospital was the complete opposite of the opinion of the doctor in the second hospital. Why the first hospital doctor worked in Palm Springs, California, where the average age coming into the urgent care, the trauma center was about 75. Oh Wow. And for 75 year old with a torn aorta, multiple brain bleeds, multiple fractures, this would've been it.

Speaker 3: (11:40)
But for a 16 year old, it's not. And so the trauma center, we got them to, which is the second trauma centers, number two trauma center in the country in us, they see all sorts of gang fights, people thrown off, overpasses, all sorts of stuff. This was like not out of the norm. Right? So you're just getting their opinion based on what they know. And they're going to give you the best opinion they can based on the information that they have. And then you get to make the decision you want out of it. I think that we're giving people power where we shouldn't be, you know, so and yes, people thought I was absolutely crazy. But then they started to get behind it cause I started tell them what, you know, what I was doing and what we were going to have, especially when they walked in, said, oh he's never gonna walk again.

Speaker 3: (12:30)
I go, well, Huh. You know, he had a crushed heel. And I said, well what if Kobe Bryant were in this bed cause I'm pretty sure that you would be doing everything possible. So that's what we're going to do. And you know, then they told me he was in the second hospital, which was a rehab hospital. And they told me that you know, there was a swimming pool and they go in there. They go, oh he's not ready for that. And there was a gym and I would sneak into the gym with him and do stuff and they get mad at me. So then I got to t I got a little furlough where I got to take them out for four hours. So we took them to an Olympic size pool. We took a video of him swimming perfectly through this pool. Then we took him to the gym, and then I took the video of him doing all this workout stuff at the gym. And I said, he wants to be challenged. Human beings need to be challenged. They, you know, that's how we actually get stronger. We don't get stronger by doing a little less than what we're capable of. We get stronger by being pushed beyond what we think we're capable of. And that's what we have to do.

Speaker 2: (13:34)
I mean, that is just absolutely amazing. I mean, well, I had all this opposition when I was in the hospital that she would not even live for a few weeks even when she was stabilized. And that she would never, I would never be able to care for her. And I just, I, I was determined to take her home like this, you know, once they said, look, she's not improving, she's never going to do anything again. You have to put her in this, you know, a hospital institution. And I really fought tooth and nail to get her home and to get a little bit of support. So with caregivers in the morning for an hour and just, you know, for personal cares and some time out because she was 24, seven around the clock here and the, they would not give me the resources that I need. I had to really, really fight.

Speaker 2: (14:23)
And this is one of the important points that I've heard you make before too, and then abuse it. I've listened to did you have to really advocate for your loved one? You can go and, and you've, you're fighting against not only the, the, the accident or the aneurysm or you know, the, the results of that you're filing against the system that if you don't be a pushy, quite, you know, strong person. I mean, I'm, I'm lucky. I'm like, you, I don't really care if people don't like me when it comes to my mum, you know, like, I wouldn't

Speaker 2: (15:00)
Like a, a lot of, you know, oh, she's said pushy daughter. She's very forceful. You know, she's here again, me, I'm sure they hated me. And, and did not believe that I could do any of this. And I actually, at one stage, I remember going in and throwing my other two books at the doctor and saying, this is who I am and I am not putting my mom in a home and you better get used to it. You better give me what I need. And he still wouldn't, you know. So then I'm walking up brother, and who's very big man, and we got results. What we needed. You do, what ever you take to, to give your loved one the best chance possible. And you know, like with, with you taking grant into the gym and seeing, isn't it a, isn't it a beautiful feeling to actually get them out of the hospital situation and finally into some way like a gym or swimming pool surrounded with, with athletes and people that are actually all about improving themselves rather than being in a rehabilitation place where that's what I found that, you know, when she was surrounded by other young athletes training hard, she rose to the next

Speaker 3: (16:15)
Well think about, you know, what we know about obesity, that's super interesting. As they, you know, the studies in the U s about obesity being contagious, you catch it from your friends that you will tend to weigh what your closest friends way, even if they live across the country. And so one of the classic things I say when someone says, all right, well now I've gotten healthy and fit, how do I stay that way? I go find fit friends. So, you know, grant, when we took them, we took them out of the hospital after four and a half months earlier than they wanted us to. And then we had them in a Rehab Center for another month, but then I took them out of that, brought them home and I brought them to a training center that is the Athletic Training Center for that area. And they are amazing what they do. There are all sorts of, you know, like rope training, balance training power, like really cool stuff. And that's what we had them doing. And he's still now doing it to this day, like all sorts of crazy balanced stuff and you know, climbing and ropes and that kind of stuff that, you know, again, the average person won't do much less. Someone with rods in their thighs and, you know, he had ac joint problems, all sorts of stuff. And like

Speaker 2: (17:37)
He's fine, he's fine and he's fighting back. And did you with a brain injury? Did you have to teach grant everything from scratch again or did he start like with mum, it took me 18 months to teach mum just to roll over and bead, you know, it was that she couldn't push a button or she couldn't sit like she was completely floppy and no special awareness. Did grant have those issues as well?

Speaker 3: (18:05)
Yeah, that's very interesting. So grant was in a coma for a couple of weeks and I thought like in the movies, you know, in the movies someone's in a coma and then one day they wake up and they go, hi, I love you. So that is like shame on those movies. This does not happen this way. We, he didn't wake up from that coma overnight. It happened over time and a lot of time. And we basically got to start all over again at, first of all he did was stare off into space. He wouldn't make eye contact and you moved one arm has only thing that was in a cast. He moved one arm back and forth all day every day. And I was like, Oh, you know, and then we'd sleep off and on and then then you started, you know, being able to make eye contact. Then he started. Then one day I wasn't there at the time, which is so sad. His girlfriend came in and he said, I love you. And so he just, things started to come out, but we had to start all over again with teaching them how to brush his teeth, how to eat, how to go to the bathroom. He knew none of this, none of it. So it was quite like, it was like raising a very big, a 16 year old baby.

Speaker 2: (19:16)
Yeah. I had a 74 year old baby and they don't think very well.

Speaker 3: (19:20)
Yeah. Right. It's not a, it's very different.

Speaker 2: (19:24)
And, and, and this is what people don't quite understand is the dates of the rehabilitation. Every time you get something back, you realize there's another deficit that you haven't thought of. Yeah. You haven't come up against that problem until that one is sort of right. Right.

Speaker 3: (19:37)
That one installed and you're like, oh no, now they're going to get up. And they can't gonna have any balance. Oh, now that they want to get up, now they've got to go. You know, it's like, yeah. Every single thing was,

Speaker 2: (19:49)
Was relearning and retraining the brain. Now you were very, in a very lucky situation, you hit some of the world's top doctors and brain doctors like Dr. Daniel Amen. Who's amazing. They supported you through the students. [inaudible] Yeah, most of them don't have such amazing friends, if you like. And the opportunity to get the information that you needed. I want to go a little bit into the, like the supplementation side of things and then get into hyperbaric because hyperbaric is something that we both did. And I know with my mom, it was absolute key factor in her recovery. Can you tell us what your nutritionist, you're an amazing nutritionist, triple board certified, you know, everything about the right foods. What's wrong with the stuff that they give you in the hospital?

Speaker 3: (20:41)
Things grant said was, you know, when they tried to give him hospital food was disgusting. And I was like yeah, I made a point, especially at the first hospital, the second hospital had better food, but the first hospital had just the typical, it was a county hospital and it was all processed. It was horrible. Honestly. It was like ensure and white bread and I mean just horrible stuff. And he needed wholefoods. He needed you know, good and mega threes, he needed lots of vegetables. There was none, there was nothing there to be had. And so I made a point of bringing and it was a pain in the bucks. His hospital's parking lot was under construction, so I'd end up parking anywhere from a mile to two miles away every single day. And it wasn't in a great neighborhood. So sometimes this would be like six in the morning, nine at night.

Speaker 3: (21:38)
So it was like, I look at me, I don't, I don't know how the heck I would do this and I would bring a cooler bag of stuff cause there was nowhere to store it there. There was no fridge or freezer or anything else I could use. And so I would just bring this stuff in and I'd make him me smoothies where I'd put fish oil in and Greens and load him up with supplements that he needed. Cause my gosh, when you're healing like that, he had 13 fractures and your brain is healing. You need to be, have heavy duty nutrient dense food and supplements like you don't, this is when you need the most of it. And the last thing you should be doing is eating white flour and you know, bad fats and sugar. Like are you kidding me? You know, we don't want to waste calories here. We've got to make every single thing counts. So I was getting wild salmon and bone Brah and Avocados. I mean I was just loading him up with stuff and thankfully once he started to eat he was a pretty good eater. But you know, at first it was mainly smoothies.

Speaker 2: (22:41)
Yeah, a new triple a was my best friend. That was a thing I could get into mum cause she could only draw. And this is really, really important that you talk about fish oils and there's a whole lot of other supplements that can really help with brain health. And this is not general knowledge. This is I did CBD oils. I did you know, fish oils anything that was anti-inflammatory, tumeric and things like this. What are some of the secret sauce things, if you like that you grant, and I know you hit them on high doses of fish oil.

Speaker 3: (23:20)
Well, high dose fish oil was definitely the biggest one that we did. They wouldn't let us do it right away. Now, here's what I would say is prior to the accident he was doing five grams of fish oil a day. I believe that that was one of the key things that helped him get through this because it protects your brain. You never know when your brain is going to get injured, right? And if you've got that on to begin with before it happens, you're going to be in better shape. So he had an on board to begin with. Then as soon as I could, the hospital refused to give him more than two grams. So as soon as he took out his feeding tube, which he spit out himself, then I started in. And so that's how I got the fish oil up.

Speaker 3: (24:04)
Cause I gave this the hospital, the studies and they refused. And the next thing I did was make sure that he had a lot of protein on board and good amino acids because, and that's why something like bone broth or adding Collagen, you need all of that so he can, he can heal. He had all these broken bones, he had so much healing to do and he was sarcopenia. Q had been catabolic from you know, being coma and then not moving and then being on a feeding tube. So I kicked his, his protein way up and I was giving him also these really good amino acids. Super you know, bioavailable. And then a lot of, I did vitamin D. Um, I couldn't give him k cause he was on Warfarin, which you know, it was a little bit, I just gave him vitamin D and then I gave him trying to think about curcumin Acetylcarnitine a ton of brain nutrients like I just through the brain nutrient book at him at the time CBD wasn't out yet.

Speaker 3: (25:10)
So it wasn't a thing. Otherwise I would absolutely do that. I gave him progesterone and topical progesterone and I don't know, cause the studies, I did it based on Donald's Donald Donald Stein's work out of Emory university on how they saw that reduce brain inflammation. I don't know if it did or not, but here's the thing, like, you know, people ask what worked and I go, I don't know cause I did everything I possibly could and I figured I did things based on what was the pathway, how would it work and what's the risk versus what's the reward, the risk. We're so low on progesterone versus the potential reward, you know, same with like Fischel. There's no, there's no risk there. The rewards way bigger. So I, that's how I just started dosing. Everything is risk versus reward. When we got him out of the hospital, then I could start hyperbaric.

Speaker 3: (26:01)
We did multiple rounds of stem cells. I think five rounds of, of stem cells. We thread doing stem cells straight into a spine. Wow. And we did a lot of neurofeedback and a lot of exercise, a lot of bringing, like to me, if you to pick one thing that is the most under and has the biggest impact, it's exercise, it raises something called BDNF Alpha. It's going to help you create, you know, create a new brain so to speak. So super important fact that yeah, this is, this is really important. Oh yeah. Yeah. One other thing we did obviously first in the hospital was to and then I wrote to him on this a couple times. Obviously, you know, sugar and gluten are gone, but we had him on a ketogenic diet because when you have a brain injury, your brain can't get glucose in, but it can use ketones for fuel. So, and you can use you can use exotic genus ketones if you have an issue not being able to do that where you're at, like based on what they're feeding. So there's other ways to do it, but that's what we did.

Speaker 2: (27:11)
Yeah. And those are all really important things. So exalted in as keen t times you can get and things like that. MCT Oils and

Speaker 3: (27:18)
Yup. Oh, an MCT oil. Yes, we use that. And coffee. You know, coffee has helped him a lot too. So coffee, MCT oil, lot of healthy fats, a lot of fish. Doesn't really, sugar doesn't eat gluten

Speaker 2: (27:35)
And, and all these things. And this is one of the things that I've, you know, cause I get asked a lot too, what was the one thing that you did it, it's a multifaceted approach. There's no, there's no silver bullet.

Speaker 3: (27:50)
There is one. Lisa, there is one silver bullet and I think this is the most important part of this story is the most important thing that you did was to make this decision that you are going to do everything you possibly could to help her. And relentless and to do what it takes. And that's the decision I made that night in the hospital. And I think the important takeaway is when you make that decision, there's the most important thing that you have in your arsenal in order to pull that off is you. And in order for you to help your mom come back, the thing you have to do before all else is make sure that you, you put yourself in your health first, that when you think about caretaking, you're the first person you take care of because you cannot help someone else unless you are like at the top of your game. And this is a tremendous amount of stress. And I find with so many people, they just stopped taking care of themselves. So super duper important when you look at this to take care of yourself first. Never feel guilty about it. It's actually selfless to do it. Not Selfish because then you can really show up like you need to.

Speaker 2: (29:00)
Yeah. Is, and that's something I probably didn't do too well for the first couple of years and ended up quite sick myself. And, and you know, it was its own journey, but that's a really important point because when you, you're, you pouring in, you're giving all the time, every day, all day. You know, I still work with my mum seven hours a day, even though like now she's driving the car and got a full driver's license and walking and doing everything again, I'm still like, you're like, I want that 110%.

Speaker 3: (29:29)
Oh goodness. At this point of what she went through and how far she's come.

Speaker 2: (29:34)
He has no recollection of the first 19 months. And so she can't believe. And I, you know, I show her the videos and the little, you know, photos and stories that we've got and she's just like, Nah, that's, that's, you know, I, I can't remember any of that. Or I was like, you're very lucky. You don't really cause it was horrific and it's really horrific to look at the, in the eyes of your loved one and they don't know who you are and they don't know what's happening to them. And then to actually see them come back into, be like fully like your whole personalities. The same. She's intelligent woman again. You know, it's just so wonderful. I remember the first time my mum actually rang me on the phone after, I don't know, a year and a half or something and I was just crying my eyes out because she'd worked out how to use the phone, you know, and she could, you know, just the little things like that, you just know, oh, this is working.

Speaker 2: (30:28)
And she's coming back. And the, the biggest thing I found too was that on the day to day grind, because it is a grind, it's a day to day battle of training that you, you don't see the progress often for months at a time. You will see nothing happening and things are happening on the cellular level, but you don't see them. And this is where most people give up in that time when you're in a plateau. And if you can push through that, then you can look back and all of a sudden you have another, you know, another little jump in your abilities. And you'd get something back and you'd look back and how far you've come. But when you measuring it on a day to day basis, you're not actually

Speaker 3: (31:09)
Never, you know, I say this to grant now because he's made some tremendous strides and he doesn't see it. I go, because grant, you don't go out and look at the grass everyday and go, wow, look how much the grass grew from today. But if you went out and looked at the grass f not cutting it for two weeks, you'll look at the grass. Holy Moly. So I go, you cannot, you're going to have to take my word for it. And people who are like seeing you once a week or once a month, you're never going to see this ever. And that's really how life is. Like, you know, everyone wants to have that success. They see the person with the bestselling book or you know, win the race and they think that that just happened and they don't see the grind. And so to me, the paralleling life life is a grind and it's a little consistency every single day that create what we see. Like, people look at grant, I'm sure they're looking at your mom and they go, it's a miracle. I go, it was really flipping grind.

Speaker 2: (32:10)
A lot of miracle is fricking hard work. It is. And, and this is something that fascinated me with your story too because okay, I'm not as, as amazingly successful as you are. And but you had to continue your career. You keep writing your books. I remember you saying, you know, sitting on the side of your son's bed and trying to get your needs, you, your book out, which was at that very same time sort of thing. And

Speaker 3: (32:36)
I remember a sweet woman wrote in, posted on my Facebook page and she goes, don't worry about your job. It will be waiting for you. And I thought, yeah no app won't actually the New York publishers, that will be that, you know, it's like I have a, I have a book, I have everything invested in it. If it doesn't go, I will not get another book deal and I'll be bankrupt and then I will not be able to take care of my son. And so, you know, I don't have a job waiting for me. I run my own business. If I'm not there, it's not happening. And so there wasn't that option. There just was that, that realization that if I want my son to be 110%, I'm going to need to be even more successful because this is not free. You know? And a lot of this stuff that you do, like hyperbaric [inaudible] never covered that stem cells insurance never covered that.

Speaker 3: (33:33)
You know? So it's like, so many of the things that I was doing, insurance just didn't cover. You know, we had he had heavy metal poisoning from some of the stuff and insurance didn't cover that. I mean, just thing after thing after thing. Right. So it, you know, you just, you just do it. You have to do. And it's amazing what we have a capacity to do, you know? Yes. And I, I think for so many people, they're not where they want to be in life because they make success optional. And it wasn't optional here. Right. I mean, in order for me to do what I needed to do for my son, success was no longer an option. It was required in order for me to have what I needed to be able to take him, get him what he needed. And so that was that.

Speaker 2: (34:24)
Yeah. And you had to stay absolute. This is where the mindset stuff really, really kicks in. And I think because you know both you know, running your own companies and you, you have a huge city successful empire now, but it's the combination and years and years and years of work. And if you dropped the ball for five minutes, when you run your own company, that can be the, you know, it's, that cycle wasn't, as I said difficult to coordinate all this stuff. So you have to, I would have to work with mum all day and then I would come home at eight o'clock at night and work til one in the morning in. This is where I burnt out of course working on my businesses and then, you know, wake up at six in the morning and re repeat rinse. And repeat for day in, day out, seven days a week for the last, you know, four years nearly.

Speaker 2: (35:17)
In prior to that, it wasn't exactly not working either. You know, like you were still working like mad and it costs a lot of money to rehabilitate someone. I mean, we, we didn't have a hyperbaric er clinic over here at all, so I had to go into commercial dive company and begged them to be able to use their their chambers. And then I got xs for a little while and then it had to be taken off on a contract. So I had to mortgage the House and buy a hyperbaric chamber, a mild one. And then I actually opened up a clinic because I was such a success.

Speaker 3: (35:50)
Of course you did because you're an entrepreneur. Exactly.

Speaker 2: (35:54)
And I want to be able to have access to this planet. I'm so good on now. So someone else's running it, but people have access to it. And hyperbaric as a, as one of the key things that I just do not understand why it's not an every hospital in every country of the world. Why this is not often for so many things is because I know no lemon drug money behind it. And this is just tragic for so many people that could be helped by this amazing therapy if they would take it, you know, have enough treatments. So there's a lot of things wrong with the system, not only in America, but in New Zealand. So what would be your advice to people if they're facing something like a brain injury or anything in the hospital if they've got a loved one? How do you know, how do people, I mean, we have access to the Internet. We have resources. We know how to research. We know how to, you know, take action. A lot of people listen to the doctors, either experts and just leave it all up to them. That really isn't gonna work as it.

Speaker 3: (37:00)
So the doctors, the hospital saved my son's life. And literally put him back together again. And I think what we do wrong here is that we, they are, they're amazing at trauma. And at that piece of it, what they weren't, and they told me they go, this is not our part. We don't do the Rehab. We don't do this piece. They are in the urgent emergent here. Like these bones are broken. The say orders rupture. Like what, what do we need to do? And so just making sure that you're, like, for some reason we think of say a emergency room doctor is not where I would absolutely go if my son broke his leg is not the person I would go to if my son's moods were unstable or if he, you know, didn't have the energy he needed to have. Like we're going, we're assuming that they do everything.

Speaker 3: (37:57)
And when you really look at it, that is this trauma care, you know, and there's trauma care and then there's disease care and then there's health care or wellness care and there are all different things. But yet we go to two doctors expecting like expecting them to have all the answers, which doesn't make any sense. You'd never go to a gynecologist with a tooth problem. Right. You know, I mean it just, you wouldn't go to your hairstylist for a manicure. Like let's, let's put people ask the right things of the right people because in their zone of genius, like it's amazing. I mean, my son wouldn't be here except for some of these amazing at Harbor UCLA and at Children's Hospital La, you know, I mean they were just incredible. But then we expect them to all of a sudden change gears and do a part of medicine that's not their part.

Speaker 3: (38:47)
And I'd argue that health care really, you know, the wellness side of it probably isn't, that's not where they should even, that's not their part, their parts trauma and disease. Right. Those are different. So I think the first part of all of this though is just making that decision that you're going to be an advocate for your or your loved one. And I know in the hospital they were like, oh my gosh, cause I'd be there every morning when the grand rounds came through and I was doing my research and I was pulling in my expert opinions and I was getting help and I was, and I was walking through and I wanted to understand it. And I have every right to do that, you know, and, and guess what, we have the right to ask for more information to question things, to bring in other ideas.

Speaker 3: (39:36)
We can do that. They don't, you know, they like it though. So we, yeah. Well, you know what if someone, I actually had, I had amazing relationships with most of them. I've, I, you know, one woman who was a bit snotty. But for the most part they actually were pretty cool about all the stuff. And I finally at Children's Hospital La, the meetings, which would have all the doctors and therapists had, me too. I go, you know, I see. I know things you guys will never know because you are not the mom. Like, so I got into all the meetings and we all helped guide the care because, you know, and it was very, very different. So I think it's really coming in from a spirit of teamwork and how can we work together? If I've got a doctor who doesn't want to work with any other doctors, that is not going to be my doctor. Just like, like right now, I just moved to Tampa, we're remodeling the house. And if I'm, I, you know, we have an architect, well, if the, if the person who's going to do the construction doesn't want to work with the architect, we don't have a, we don't have anything going on. Like they're not going to work together. Right. With the doctors. Like they all have to work together. And this is just expectations and don't let someone intimidate you. You're the customer. Yes. You're exactly right. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 2: (40:52)
Him and I did by the, you know, I think we put doctors on a pedestal sometimes, which I mean they're amazing, you know, intellectual incredible people, but they don't always know every answer there is in, just because you don't have a doctorate doesn't mean that you haven't been able to research stuff and find the best doctors that can help you. And you've also got a brain in your head and you, and you're sitting there 24, seven or you know, your family is around the clock with that person. They can see the changes where a doctor hadn't, he has five minutes to spend with you before they move on to the next one.

Speaker 3: (41:27)
Quite often we can see, give them valuable. I had a son with a psych disorder with a brain injury. Yeah. And so I was like going, you know, I can tell you what's new and what's old and where like they would never have been able to tell any of that stuff and what he'd been on before and what worked and what didn't work and where we need to go from here. And I mean that it was a big learning curve and I could spot when things were starting to go sideways with them. Like I could see it right in the middle of his forehead. They could not see it. I go right now, you know, so cause we had to medicate him enough to keep him calm and stable but not so much as bring wouldn't heal. So I mean there's, there's just a lot that can happen when everyone comes as a team and you know, it comes from what I want is an Improv called the yes. And you know, instead of the yes, but philosophies. So, and that's what I found is for the most part, they all worked in the, yes. And especially when I got to children's Hospital La, they were very collaborative. They took it team approach. Everyone from the nurses to the therapist to the docs all had, you know, important things to say and it mattered. [inaudible]

Speaker 2: (42:38)
Well, and it's amazing that [inaudible] grant is now back into life and loving life again and fully well and like you, let's talk a little bit about your mind share summit in your, you know, the work that you do. Cause I want people to, you know, that are listening to this to follow what you do, to read your box, to hop online and learn all about you. So JJ, tell us a little bit about your mind share stuff and what you're into at the moment and where you're going with your career.

Speaker 3: (43:07)
Well my career I've probably got two more books that I'm going to write in the health space. Wow. one much more on how a cure a kind of a caretaker's guide to surviving and thriving. Because that's what really came out of all this with warrior mom is that this really is like we're all caretakers. And then one about really how to, how diets do work were just using them wrong and how to, how to navigate your health. Cause we don't, you know, we don't change our health. We, we haven't been feeling rotten and being sick for 10 years and now we're going to change it in 10 days. You know, it's like takes, it's a process. And what we can accomplish in anything over a year is amazing, but we all try to do it in a week and then beat ourselves up. So working on those two things.

Speaker 3: (44:00)
But my real passion now lies in fact that I have been fortunate over the years to know so many amazing practitioners and doctors and so I've really devoted my life to helping them identify their messages and their purpose and get that out to the world and then find other people to collaborate with. So that's what mindshare summit is, is bringing health care people, health experts, doctors help entrepreneurs together. They can share ideas, support each other collaborate, not feel alone like so many entrepreneurs do. And that's really kind of my bigger, bigger mission now is how do I help people have better resources? When I was in the hospital with grant, I had amazing resources. And you know, now that the Internet's out there, you don't have to be able to send Dr. Daniel Amen. A text message. You can now get to this information. And that's, that's what I want to see out there is more easy access to information so that when these things happen, you can just plug it in and find out. And, you know, biggest threat we have to all of that right now is, is Google and the search engines trying to dictate what you should be able to locate and find. So we're also working on that piece to make sure that, you know, this information stays open to all and it's not censored, which is so obscene. Huh?

Speaker 2: (45:30)
Well, yeah. Now how do we get involved with that? Can we get involved with that? You know, from New Zealand's, because I mean, I'm very passionate too about sharing this knowledge. And this is one of the reasons why I've got this book coming out is because I want people to have the tools that I didn't have when I went into this situation. Yeah. And I, I, you know, I got access to it via the Internet. You know, is there ways that we can be involved with that from New Zealand?

Speaker 3: (45:57)
Which one, which, you know, mind share is, is if you are a health expert doctor, entrepreneur, yes. Mindshare collaborative.com gives you a place to join. It's a membership and then within that we're working on a task force for the rest of this. Cause you know, it's like the whole thing is how do you create information that everyone has access to so that money isn't, isn't the defining line as to whether you can get healthy or not. And you know, the Internet should be the great equalizer. It shouldn't be. All of a sudden you find out that these bigger companies have grand schemes because they own pharmaceutical companies and now they're going to keep the information from you. Like it just, it just is discounted. Really. Yes. It's evil. It's evil. But I think it's, it sounds like it's going to get shut down. If not, you know, there's other options out there. That's hopefully what we get through here with this group

Speaker 2: (46:56)
And with the box and so on. So JJ, before, just as we wrap up as you, any messages that you want to get across that we've, we've covered a lot of ground today. I know that you've worked on, I did want to mention the broken brain series, which I've bought and, and devoured the, the work that those doctors and professionals are doing. This has been a really important thing. I think that's a huge resource. If I'd had that four years ago, we've been brilliant, you know?

Speaker 3: (47:26)
Yes. Oh my gosh. But mark Hyman and drew per it have put together an amazing, Mark's been a longtime friend for like 20 years. You know, he's, he's just doing incredible things. Anyone with any kind of brain stuff going on, broken brain is just incredible resource source for you know, loads of interviews, et cetera. And then drew continues with this broken brain podcast. So there's that too.

Speaker 2: (47:52)
It on jury's podcast. Maybe you can put on a good or on your thoughts for that, that her with the [inaudible] stories.

Speaker 3: (47:58)
Well, yeah, you have to be in person. You must be in La to do. Yeah. So there's that. But the point is there's a lot of resources. I think the most important thing is that first, you know, when you look at what happens in life, it isn't like a, I'll give you an example. Let's say that you want to have a new sofa in your living room. Use something as mundane as that. The first thing you have to do is envision that you want a sofa in your living room. Then you go out and find the sofa you don't like all of a sudden, you know, a sofa pops in and then you envision it. It always happens in your mind's eye first, right? Yep. So same with this. If, if, when I was facing this situation with grant, the first thing was in my mind's eye, I saw him at 110%.

Speaker 3: (48:47)
I saw him getting through this. Now anywhere along the line, something could have happened. He nearly died multiple times, but I knew that I was doing everything humanly possible and beyond that to help him get there. And that's what I, you know, that's what I could do. I could manage my mindset and do everything possible on my, on my end to do that. And I think that's really important is we create it first in our mind. Thoughts create. It's very powerful. It's amazing what we can do. So manage your mindset because it's the first thing that you have control over that and commit and make a decision into the situation and always push past what you think is possible. Which was why I said 110%, you know, versus Oh, I just want grant to be alive. Grant just being alive could have been grant in a wheelchair unable to talk or see or hear or anything. So, you know, go for it, go big for it and then go for the resources to make it happen.

Speaker 2: (49:50)
Well I think that's a beautiful place to wrap it up. JJ, thank you so much for being such a warrior for being such an a fantastic mum. And being such an amazing role model for other people going through these, these sorts of journeys takes for all the work you do in this area with broken brain, with, with all the books that you have out with the nutrition stuff that you do. We can people find you online and buy bio books and know more about JJ.

Speaker 3: (50:21)
Pretty easy. JJ Virgin, www.jjvirgin.com.

Speaker 2: (50:29)
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. And I wish you son grant and Bryce of course all the best in the future and it'd be amazing to see what they do with the, with your mom too. She's got a, she's super lucky to have you as a daughter, Huh? He's a beautiful mom. I'll send you a book when it comes out. And yeah, it's, it's very special stories. Both of these and these stories are really important to share because it gives other people hope. And the biggest piece of the puzzle we've heard today is your mindset. And they never ever give up and that you throw everything in to the pot. You can't the universe, but you can control what you do. I think that was the biggest takeaway from today. I very much enjoyed today. Thank you.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Tom Cronin in a previous life was a Finance Broker of 26 years experience, he lead a life like that portrayed in the "Wolf of Wall St" movie. Life was full of stress, adrenaline, risk and partying. Burning the candle at both end he began to suffer the consequences as his nervous system broke down and anxiety and depression haunted him. Doctors advised the pharmaceutical fixes for these common ails but he decided to go down the route of meditation and studying eastern philosophies and taking a journey within instead. Studying Vedic meditation in particular.

His life was transformed and he eventually became a teacher of meditation and left the high flying world of the financial broker to start "The Stillness Project" to finally teach this amazing knowledge and wisdom to others but he wasn't content to just run courses and seminars instead Tom took on the riskiest, toughest journey of his life to bring to the world a powerful movie and book which discusses these themes.

It's taken hundreds of people working on the project, tons of investors to finance the project and many times spent wondering how he was going to get through but Tom had a vision, he wanted to change the world for the better through meditation. He believes so powerfully in his message that this book and movie just had to come out and now it is just about to be launched and is set to the take the world by storm.

Here is what he says about the project

CALM YOUR MIND OPEN YOUR HEART SAVE THE PLANET Our world is in crisis. People are stressed and confused. Humanity is at a crossroads. Yet within each of us we have the capability to bring ourself and our species back from the brink.

The Portal brings to life the stories of six people who’ve overcome adversity and crisis, inspiring the audience to follow in their footsteps and realise the unique potential that all humans have to change our world–from the inside out.

Revealing a centuries-old road map to human transformation, this life-affirming book and documentary take us through the portal behind our minds to what we need to live and thrive today.

About the film "The Portal"

THE FILM A cinematic experience to inspire us into a new era, THE PORTAL
is about how personal transformation can spark a global shift.

Supported by insights from three of the world’s foremost futurists–and a robot–THE PORTAL nails the zeitgeist of a generation, blending personal stories, ancient wisdom, technology, and human potential as it takes the viewer on their own mindfulness journey.

Opening hearts and minds to a new way forward, this life-affirming documentary invites all 7 billion people to reimagine life by entering THE PORTAL.

You can find out more about Tom Cronin at www.tomcronin.com and about the film and book, screenings and events at https://entertheportal.com

   We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this episode Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff discuss the phenomenon of the imposter syndrome, of having a lack of self confidence and self acceptance, about understanding the power of your words and thoughts to change your attitude to yourself and to your potential as a person.

How our perceptions of others always being better than us, diminishes our power and how that is a misconception of reality. Our everyones experiences colours the way they see themselves and the world and why you need to stand in your own power and own your own destiny.

This is about shifting the self talk, about stopping apologising for not being an expert at every damn thing and understanding the power of self confidence to change what you can achieve.

Hope you enjoy the show.

We wanted to let you know we have another live weekend running seminar coming up on the 9th and 10th of November in beautiful Hawkes Bay in New Zealand so if you want to come and learn everything there is to know around running and upgrade your mindset and health while you are there visit our information page at:

https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transciption of the show

00:00 Well. Hi everybody. Lisa Tamati me here once again, fantastic to have you with us. I'm here with my wing man. Neil Wagstaff, sitting over in the beautiful Hawkes Bay. How are you doing buddy? I'm good. How are you? Oh, very good. And today we've got another fantastic episode for you. We have just come off the back of our weekend run seminar that we have them head on the weekend and have a lot north. And beautiful north island of New Zealand's, if you're listening to this from overseas. It's sort of in the north island on the, on the east coast. Beautiful place. And we had a fantastic weekend. We had a full house of city od runners come to learn everything about running, but they actually went away learning a heck of a lot about mindset and about motivation and about nutrition and everything else in between.

00:47 And was really, really a fantastic weekend. We are running another live event on the weekend of the ninth and tenth of November again, and have a lot more for if anyone's interested, I'm going to put a link in the show notes for you to register and you can find out all about it. We'd love to have you come and join us if you want a fantastic weekend with like minded people that are all into health and fitness and learning about upgrading the minds, the running skills and their bodies. So it's really a fantastic weekend. Neil, how did you find the weekend, right? Did you have a good time?

01:21 Well it was great, , it's always the energy at those things that is awesome. The excitement or the stories everyone brings to it. It's epic. It just makes me smile thinking about, It gets the hairs up on the back of my neck cause everyone's there for different reason. They're there for a common interest of obviously running, but they've got their own goals. They've got their own why. And it's those special stories that, that make it for me, it's just, yeah, it's so cool. And to see people evolve over the weekend and come in a little bit unsure about what they're capable of and realize by the end of the weekend that, wow, I can do a whole lot more than I thought I was able to do.

01:53 Yeah, it's really fantastic to see that. And you know, one of the main themes that keeps coming and reoccurring at these events and you know, with us dealing with hundreds of athletes and coaching, we get this common theme coming through, which is that people come to us and they go, they qualify everything. Like, Hi guys, I'm really interested in your one coaching programs, but I'm not a real runner and I'm only just a real slow, you know, middle of the pack or I'm just starting out and everything is qualified with the words. I'm not a real runner. And so we're going to do an episode today about, I'm not a real.dot dot. Because this is, this is a thing that's not just to do with running, but it's in every part of our lives. I find a lot of people are going around saying, I'm going to not a real ... , I'm less than what we think I might be.

02:45 And we're going around with this lack of self confidence really and who we are. And we're not sitting in our power in there, you know, confidence that we can really achieve a lot of things. You know, when I go, you know, I'm studying a lot at the moment, all about real estate investing and all of this, and this is a new area to me, right? So when I go to see an expert, I don't want to go in the qualifying myself saying, oh, I'm a complete numpty. I know nothing about anything. But I do go in there and say, look, I'm new to this and I'm really keen to learn, but I don't go and say that I'm, I'm a complete idiot because that sits me up for, for being in a lower position, you know? And so being not confident in what I'm actually going to do.

03:31 Yes, I might be new to a new skill, but that has nothing to do with where I can get to and that's nothing to do with how I should be seeing myself. You're just learning a new skill and each and every one of us is a new newbie in one area and an experience in another and we don't need to feel ashamed about this fact when we're starting something new and it's scary and we don't need to qualify this. Well I'm not a real runner or I'm not a real late or I'm not a real business person or I'm not a real real estate investor or whatever your area is that you are going to try to find out about. It's super that you are here to learn and it's really important to sort of stand in your own power and say, this is who I am. I'm an expert in x, Y, Z. I'm new to this area and not have to go, you know? So like you, you heard it again and again and the weekend day. Yeah.

04:25 Interestingly throughout the week with some people I've been working with at the gym and some some of our regular coaching clients as well. I've done a couple of coaching calls this this week and one of the things we've been working on with a few of the clients is, is really what are your, what are your strong words? So often ask people that were your strong words. So rather to start your sentence with I'm not, or I can't start with I am and I can, but what, what is the strong word? I am, I am strong, I am a runner, I am good, I am gray. I'm a superhero. So the minute you reframe that in your head and start a sentence with that, all of a sudden the whole direction of the conversation and the situation will, will change. The other bit. Just backtracking a little bit on what you were saying is is where the way you are approaching situations, which is gold, you people often forget that they've got a multitude of experience and a huge skillset that is very transferable into the new thing.

05:17 The renewed yet. So I might be a Newbie at certain things you were talking about. Obviously the property investing, but the the years of experience, you've got another aspects of life they're going to pull through to that and all of a sudden you start to understand that you're going to pull on that skill set and pull it through and go, actually I understand this is just looking at it through a slightly different, slightly different Lens, so it's really about how your, your entering a room, how you're entering conversation, how you're, you're, you're, you're setting yourself up. We had usually the weekends example, a group of unsure people who less feeling a whole lot sure about what they're able to do and what they need to do and how to do it. It's, it's almost like they've mapped, got the formula that allows them to go, I am a runner.

05:57 The, I'm one of the ladies I spoke to this week, she's, she's done more ultra marathons than I have more day stage races than I have because I haven't yet done one. And I'm sitting there telling and explaining this to us saying, actually, if we look on paper, you, we could argue that you're more of a run in the lamb. Who Do you think some more the way she is, she's like, you're the, you're the runner actually. You're, you're more of a runner. So I should be one. I should be the one. And I, I definitely think I'm a runner, so it's it's just, yeah, qualifying it in your head. So the, the, the confidence lists as you, as you move forward.

06:28 Yeah. And you don't need to be the absolute best in the world. So even be a teacher like your, your, you know, like you said, you're running teaching and you were my coach for a decade before you even got into business. Yeah. Did I go to you like you haven't run 150 ultramarathons or anything? Are you see for not as experienced or not logical enough to help me? No, the opposite because you can see it from completely different it's perspective. You come from the science and the whole logical thinking and almond and the sub, you know, athlete state of yes I have the experience and that's why what we do is a really super good combination of experience and science behind the whole thing. And this is, you know, just understanding who you are, what you're capable of and just see the transformation and the people over the weekend from coming in all nervous coming into this new environment and Ireton we go to a course or a conference or learning, it's, it's a scary, you know, uncomfortable feeling when you first arrive at the front door.

07:26 Hasn't had, nobody knows each other. And you sort of like, oh my God, what am I doing here? And, and I are going to be super athletes. You know, this is, this is some of the mentality of people coming into an afterwards that tell us this, you know, I came in and expecting everyone to be superheroes. You know, and expecting to be told you're going to train harder and go more, you know, Rara [inaudible] and all that sort of shit. And they, it wasn't what they got. They actually got a whole lot of amazing information on how to, for health, those of, of what they came for, but they asked that they lift understanding the why and they leave feeling empowered in the, the doubtful thoughts that they're having, the fears that they're experiencing, the guilt that they are experiencing is common to the entire room.

08:18 And that includes you and me too. Yeah, exactly. It's so powerful. I just to understand that she had experience instead of putting everybody else up on a pedestal. And I'm down here as the lowly beginner on any side and we tend to do that. We see, we tend, you know, to always see everyone else better than us and as having everything together. And when you look around the social media world that we live in, that's very much water's portrayed in, you're always comparing somebody's Instagram moment, which is a highly tier moments. Okay. Of the best moment during the run. At the top of the hill or the, for the camera, you're not seeing the grind and the shit and the tears and the stuff on the way to the top of that man's and you're only getting the snapshot and then you and your life are going wrong.

09:13 I couldn't do that. And that'd be the main, everybody else is running a hundred and ultra-marathons a week. You know, that's the sort of feeling you start to get. And you gotta remember like social media media is just so curated. So if I spoke with, for example, knows exactly what you're into and we'll feed you a thousand runners doing a thousand crazy suits things every week. So you get this, this misconception that the whole world is out there running bigger than you are when it started. You know, Facebook was just picking out what you're interested in and there therein lies the danger. And you know, this has been discussed before with the elections and things like that. You are getting feed what you are actually interested in and therefore skews your view of what you're seeing and what you're actually experiencing online. And just being aware of that whole dynamic.

10:03 And this isn't just in social media but very, you know, it's very prevalent in today's world that we see a lot of beautiful plastic people with lovely photos and then we think that what we're experiencing in our internal world, you comparing it now, bad moments and hard moments against somebody beautiful picture and it's, it's just completely an unrealistic perception of the world. And this is like the beauty of being something like a live seminar like we did. People have a perception of me, they have a perception of you and then when they actually get to meet you, it's nothing like that. They realize you're just as human as everyone else with the site.

10:42 Exactly. Exactly. And that that is the most, one of the most comforting things for everyone at the weekend. It was by far one of the most compelling things for them to just, you could see the relaxation come across their faces when they were like, these guys are normal.

10:57 Very unfortunate.

10:59 These guys, these guys are more that their normal stuff, they, they're there, they're like us. And then once you realize that you can stop, then it's people stop feeling like an imposter and they start feeling like they're at home. And that's, that's really what we want you to take away from today is that yet we're not imposters we can feel at home. We understand our why well enough and we can relax and do what we do. We need to.

11:21 Yeah. And they, and so imposter syndrome is the for when you, maybe you go through life and you're starting to feel like, oh, I shouldn't be here. I'm not good enough. I can't be teaching this cause I'm not the number one expert in the world. You know, like just if I want to go to the gym and build some muscles, do I go and engage Arnold Schwarzenegger now because he's like, you know, like so far out of my perception of what could possibly be then, you know, just having someone one or two steps ahead of you or three steps ahead of you is all need. You don't need to be the best in the world. So if you're that teacher too, you don't need to be 100 million steps are here, you know, and we talked with other run coaches too that are, you know, they have a special niche and they go, oh, we're not like you though. Like, you know, this is often the conversation I've had with people. I'm just taking absolute beginners and I go, y'all know, I'm taking absolute beginners to, Oh, I thought you'd only be working with the elite. No.

12:21 And everyone has the area with they feeling comfortable, you know, and I'm almost certainly not comfortable with Olympic athletes, you know, you have never been one. And I don't have, you know, that skill set or those genetics and I understand more the battles of the everyday person and therefore I'm comfortable in that area teaching to people that have these issues, you know, and I don't really give a shit about the top 1% but good on them. You know, they'll find better coaches than me for that. And so it's understanding we use it in the world and then setting in that power and then using those words as Neal, seeing those in your, in your thought processes saying, I am a master of this. I am a runner, I am strong. I am able to do this. Not, oh, I can't do that. And Oh my gosh, that's so amazing what you do. I couldn't even do that. And all that. If you hear yourself tight saying those things, just understand that that person's just a little bit further up the mountain than on top of the mountain either. You know, we're all on differing degrees of different mountains

13:26 And nice people we can learn so much from. And that's the, that's the thing I've got very, very comfortable with over the years is, as you said at the start or the start of the podcast today is the asking just go and, well actually that's, that's amazing. How'd you do that? Being very comfortable that you don't know and getting someone to explain to you how they've put there. That's exactly how we've moved through and how we've gone out is to go, oh, hang on a minute, explain that again. I don't, I don't fully get it. I don't understand it. And then all of a sudden you learn and realize that actually that person was in the same position as we were last year and all that and it's got no bit further ahead so we can try the information and move forward. I think as well to add into your why is just really drilling down, which is probably another podcast in itself, lesion really working out where your purposes, so really understanding what your purpose is, what your position is and purposes in life.

14:11 I want you to get comfortable with that and you understand what you want to be sharing, what you want to be doing and you want to be. It's really easy to be in your own skin and we're not falling into that trap of making the mistake of I should be this or I should be that to the company every day, just sit in their company going, this is me, this is what I want to be doing. I know what I'm doing, I know how I'm doing it and I'm not looking around again. You should do that. I'll try and do it and it just feels wrong. Move the really tight the times, work out what you, what you should be doing, the purposes

14:38 In life and where you will meet to be studying in life and they realize that you can't do everything. And this is the one of the beautiful things about getting older. You know like there's a lot of negatives about getting older and we all know those very well, but there's a hell of a lot of benefits to in, it's called wisdom and exactly yearning. And if you have an open mind and if you start to develop your skills set, then you, you know, just because you've been alive for a long time, you've got a lot more experiences to pull on and to share from. And if you keep an open mindset and continue your education, then you can end up feeling a lot more stronger as you get older then, you know, I know certainly I do. Like if I look back even 10 15 years ago where I was in as to her, I am now, as you know,

15:18 It's not there. It's night and day different. I remember from when we first met the language you used to use that and the language you use now is it's night and day and we will evolve. We will change and we should be comfortable. We should be counseled with doing that. Just to educate ourselves on an ongoing, under a hundred percent. And it's yeah, I mean there's a challenge off the back of this should be how many times this week and the listeners go out and say, everyone that's listening. I am. So I am.dot, dot. Yeah. I can.dot, dot. And I do that though. How many times should you get that in? And just the saying it that saying out loud or I am a runner or cam run, I do run. Is, is it just, it makes me feel, makes me feel better. Saying out loud. Yes, great.

16:00 And stop apologizing for existing. They would just go through the whole as all, sorry, I'm not an expert on this area or I'm love this and I'm not of that. Just having the confidence to say I am and even if you don't feel it, and the in the moment that you're saying it, you're suggesting to your subconscious and we did a podcast last week on reprogramming subconscious. Correct. We haven't heard that. Go back and listen to that because reprogramming your subconscious is what we're talking about here we are talking about and it's repeated use of that language where you want to be even if you're not the, now I am a master of x, Y,Z , that I might not be yet, but that's what I'm putting into my mind next for suggesting to my mind that I am to my subconscious that I am and it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

16:46 It will if you keep saying it and if you keep understanding it and be going through that. The deep work last week, I've taught talk about, you know, self hypnosis and things like that that can speed the process up. And you know, like I was listening to another podcast today and it was all about, you know focusing on the end goal, you know. So even though it might seem ridiculously far away, I want you to give yourself permission to set a big audacious goal and sit there and visualize that future. Where are you gonna be in three years time? Where are you going to be in five years time? If you fulfill this dream and you're gonna, you know, be running new and B or are you going to be running Badwater, you know, and there can be a ridiculous strain seeing yourself, this, visualize the newspaper articles being written about, you visualize the, the stories being told, visualize the book that's going to come out.

17:45 This is the sort of stuff I do. And then I work backwards from air. Okay, that might be a pipe dream right now, but it's near as my, my indicator of where the hell I'm going. That's my true north. If you like. And then I have, I work back from the, so if I want to get to the year, what do I need to do in the next five years? What you'll typically find, so is that you'll go but this so far away, but if you in the first year just to one 10th of what it would take to get there, if you find that you gather momentum over the time. Okay. So the first year you might be just out of the blocks, you might just get your first 10 k done, your first half marathon done, you still dreaming of Badwater water. Okay. But the second year you might get to an ultramarathon in the Fuji, you might give to opt for marathons three ultra-marathons. I mean, Bang, you're there, it speeds up. And this is the power of like compounding interest, right? I'm learning all about compounding interests in regards to real estate. The power of it is that the interest gets the interest on the interest.

18:56 It really, really is gold. And the, I often say to people as well that if I, and when people are looking at it, if you could say 50% of this big goal that you've taken yourself in the next 12 months, would you take it and no one has ever said, no, I'll take it into your pull in. It's even taking that much and watching how that, that grow and that grow and that grow. Don't look for perfection and look for consistency. Yeah. You consistent. Then it's going to, it's going to happen. Most people that are looking for exact perfection, it falls over

19:28 If there's one for a commitment thing. Yes. If you do, you might think it's an unrealistic expectation to sit this lofty goal, but you've got, and you can't even see the pathway to getting there. But by taking those steps in, making a commitment to work on it every single day or every single week, depending on the goal and just doing half an hour every day on it, or you know, I'm going to commit to reading one book a week, or I'm going to commit to going to the gym three times a week, or I'm going to commit to a meeting with my friends and running for half an hour, you know, twice a week, whatever those micro commitments are that build it into a daily habits. And then that gets snowballs, a snowball effect so that you actually start to gather momentum and then all of a sudden when you look back what you've achieved in a 12 month period, say it's just like, holy heck, I really did that and that

20:22 All of a sudden you're saying, I am, I can, and I do.

20:25 Yeah, and you started the heat for the style. Getting out of the stat box is a really hard one. And then keeping that momentum in the first months when you haven't seen progress yet and you won't, you might get some quick ones. Like typically with runners, what we say is that it's like absolute beginners I'm talking about and they don't even know how to, you know, like run nonstop for minutes is that they get some really quick ones within a month we can have them running for half an hour straight through and the lot and then typically slows down a little bit. And so it's understanding the nature of learning and the nature of plateaus and understanding how to push through to the next level and not giving up on that allow, you know we don't, you know, working with my mum wants, again, to bring in an analogy from there, we would have times when she'd stopped to make leaps and bounds forward.

21:15 Not Literally, she's still not leaving valley anywhere, but she's, she's getting there. We would make really big gains in a very short time and then would have months of nothing, absolutely nothing, no progress. And when I look back over those months, I'm going, and those are the times when people give up. And those are the Times where you've got to push down, double down and keep going, keep it going. When you push through to the next layer, that's when you get another lot of, you know, last fall and Lisa spoken. Totally, totally agree. Yeah. So I think that's probably enough for today guys. I hope that there was a bit of a help for you. Another mindset up. You know, this is a running podcast and a fitness podcast and is, but there's a hell of a lot of mental stuff because to be honest, this is a big piece of the puzzle. Huge base of the puzzle with your runner, an athlete, a person and business. You know, in the corporate world there's all these same challenges that come across and this is why the crossing, but the crossover between all the disciplines, you learn it for running, but then you actually learn it for life or vice versa, you know? So it really helps. So Neil, any last words to end on? You know, phrasing things positively and not making excuses. You know, apologize, I am a runner, I am a runner.

22:40 I'm a master. I want you to go and write the list guys. I've got a list on my fridge over there. Let's go on. I am a master of like this 50 things on this list that I'd say oneself every time I go to the fridge, which is quite often cause I like date, I have to read three or four of them before I opened the door. And they reinforces in my mind on a subconscious level repetitively, repetitively, I am a master. And then I'll go around in my head saying I am this. And I am that in my mind, you know, and I, I haven't tire runs. Like we don't want to treat my leg, do this for example, where it's boring as hell on monetary mall. There's nothing to look at. Anyway, so I just go into this mantra and I'll pick a couple of things that I'm working on to reprogram my mind.

23:26 And I'll just repeat the mantra over and over and over for a good half an hour until I drive myself and sign. And then I'll go home and I'll start to see the fruit of that Labor, not from, not only physically from the training session, but mentally as well. So there's a quick tip for you to go and do that. Easy wins, easy wins. All right guys, we'll as usual, if you want to reach out to us, you can get hold of Neil and I, lisa@runninghotcoaching.com or neil@runninghotcoaching.com. Check out our website to Lisa tomothy.com and check out all their programs, their mindset university epigenetics program and running programs. Come and join us on our Facebook group. You can find it just a look up Facebook groups, Lisa Tamati. And hit us up on social media and we're really active on Instagram. You know, Facebook and Youtube. We have huge youtube channel on that point.

24:17 I just wanted to remind people, actually I've got about, I think it's eight documentaries on my youtube channel, full length running documentaries from places like running through the Gobi desert or death valley, the Himalayas, Australia, the outback of Australia. There's a whole lot of good stuff there. If you want some full length movies and you're sick of Netflix, come and check out my channel. Much more interesting. Certainly better than the Kardashians I can tell you that much. So yeah, check those out. Just hop on over to the youtube channel and put in Lisa Tamati. And I've got a playlist here of ultra marathon documentary, so check that out, right guys, thanks for your time today. We'll see you again next week. Thanks. Okay.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

In today's episode Lisa's talks about the two minds. The conscious mind and the Subconscious mind. The subconscious mind can process 20 000 000 bits of infoper second. The conscious mind can only process 40 bits of info/sec. So the subconscious mind can process 500 000 times more what the conscious mind is able to.

This information has powerful implications when it comes to getting what you want and desire in life and to changing behaviours and thought processes that are no longer serving you or that are limiting you.

Your conscious mind is your creative mind, your self, your wants, your desires. Your subconscious mind is a tape recorder. It just plays back whatever it was programmed with.

We learn how you got your programming to begin with and why it might be direct competition to what you actually want and how that might be sabotaging your attempts to change.

To learn more about this topic Lisa recommends you read "The Biology of Belief" by Dr Bruce Lipton and to study his works at www.brucelipton.com

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Many athletes have the attitude you just have to go hard all the time, they are tough and unbending when it comes to training, they know it sometimes hurts and is hard and you just have to deal with that. Take a teaspoon of concrete and harden up and this attitude has some great benefits with your sporting and fitness ambitions but can also . have great benefits for other areas of your life. You learn mental toughness and how to push through, however this approach can also lead to burnout and adrenal exhaustion, a break down of the immune system even hormone imbalances and stress. The body doesn't improve during the training phase it actually improves when you are resting and recovering and so it is crucial to factor this in and to make sure you are ready for your hard workouts prior to doing them.

In this episode Lisa Tamati and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff talk about how to tell where you body is at and how to read the signals it is giving you so that you can optimise your performance and stay in optimal health without compromise.

They have also prepared a free guide to download so you can assess your own body and this can be downloaded at

https://rhexercise.lisatamati.com/exercise

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcription

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Well, hi everybody Lisa Tamati here, pushing the limits here with my wing man. Neil Wagstaff Neil how are you're doing.

Speaker 3: (00:19)
I'm good. Thank you. I'm good.

Speaker 2: (00:20)
We've got another great episode already for you guys today. I hope you're all excited. Now today we are going to be talking about how to tell if you are under or over-training. And this might be very counter intuitive for a lot of the people who are just saying go hard, go harder or go home. But we want to talk to you a little bit about finding balance in, in actually how to, how to work out whether your body is actually trying to tell you that it's time to pull back, have a bit of recovery time and what to do there. So Neil, take it away.

Speaker 3: (00:53)
Take it away. It's although as you, some of you may seen out there that moment, we've got a great guide and one of ebooks which were put in the show notes afterwards on how to work out if you're under or over on the training so that I'll have all the content and for you guys at the end. But we use with our athletes and ourselves as well by Felicia and I, we use our, the running hot coaching wellness check and that wellness wellness check it take you through a series of serious different things to look at. Very subjective. And all you're going to do is write yourself on a scale of one to ten one being that you are feeling like you're in the toilet, 10 being that you are rock and roll in, you are all, all guns blazing. you're on fire.

Speaker 3: (01:31)
Okay. So you are going to do this and rate yourself on a simple one to 10 scale with your sleep, your nutrition, hydration, movement, any injuries or niggles you've got your energy levels and then your stress levels as well. So seven things you're gonna check in on each of those. As I say, you right for one. So if you're scoring a one on everything and you base it in the toilet, does that equal going out and doing a high intensity interval training? No heel repeats? Probably not. So likewise, if you're up at a 10 and you've got all this energy in the tank, you should be able to go out and do a do a tough session. I just want to dig a little bit deeper into it because what you're gonna find as you collect this information each day, and we can send you out the spreadsheet we used to do this afterwards as well, is it will start to develop a picture for you.

Speaker 3: (02:17)
You simply get up in the morning, have a look through, doesn't take any time at all, and you just go, right, where am I at? Scale of one to 10. Just go through your, your check, see where your schools are at and you'll start see a pattern developing side. Personally. Also a pattern developing with my sleep. My sleep was where my scores were low. And do you niggles coming in as well? So very quickly identified to me that the area I needed to be working on was my, was my sleep. Whereas in hindsight, years gone by, if I wanted to get better in my running, I would have done nine times or 10 times out of 10 I would have gone out and done another info session. We'll go on out and then another hill session or run my longer run would've had half an hour added to it because in my head many years ago, to be a better runner, you need to run more than an exit.

Speaker 3: (03:03)
We used to have this same conversation as well when I started coaching with you, Lisa. But it's what we've learned now is that now by me addressing my sleep, guess what? That's making me a better runner. So dropping a session each week. So going from five day run days a week to full run days a week and getting my sleep from six and a half hours to seven and a half, eight hours, I've become a better runner and we're finding exactly the same thing's happening with all the people using it with often the things that are popping up will be hydration issues is that, imagine again the same thing you will get. You're going out and doing your running with people that we're talking to are going out and doing. They're running, they're doing more running cause I think that's gonna make them a better runner, higher intensity, more volume and they're doing it in a day hydrated state.

Speaker 3: (03:44)
So all they're doing by adding more load and volume and intensity is the becoming a worse runner, more injured runner and more unhealthy runner folks on the hydration instead because you've identified that as the area you need to work on, all of a sudden it starts, it starts improving thing that we want to point out as well as chatting to one of our clients over in the states yesterday. Lovely lady we worked with over there and in some of the time is fine understanding it and you and I have been here, Lisa, we've been at many times. It's fine when you understand all this, all this makes perfect sense from a science point of view and a theory point of view, application is the hardest bit. So I've programmed her to have a, she was on a five day run, we were starting to go into a taper program that I started dropping it down into four days and she understood why but it was now what am I going to do with Wednesday?

Speaker 2: (04:33)
Yeah. I'm psychologically not coping.

Speaker 3: (04:35)
Yeah. Well I haven't been Wednesday. Wednesdays are run day. What happens with Wednesday? So it's also, if you are playing with it and your schools are telling you you needs to meet an easy day, replace it with something that you can go and have fun with. So get 'em replace it with a yoga class for example. Or go for a walk instead of a run going, do something you enjoy but enjoy that day. Yeah. It's been given to you to fill your tank a little bit more, fill your cup a little bit more, give you a little bit more energy, which is gonna make you a better runner,

Speaker 2: (05:01)
Okay? She does not mean that you're a lazy ass. Not mean that you are useless, that you are not tough enough.

Speaker 3: (05:08)
Listen, somebody songs and we had that conversation

Speaker 2: (05:11)
Very, very many times and we still have it though. We knew it because you know, psychologically is athletes. We are often very much Taipei crews to the, all of these. We'd go get us. We want to, we want to work hard, we want to fight hard, we want to play hard. But which is fine and this is obviously, it's really fun when you're a 20 year old and you don't have a lot of other things on your plate, okay? And you get away with a heck of a lot more. Just like you could get away with partying and then going running a marathon the next day when you were 20. Not so great when you're 50. And in things you have to change as you get older. With each, with each decade, you need to look at things differently. That does not mean that you get weaker, that you get lazier, that you use ages and excuse.

Speaker 2: (05:53)
It just means you was up to the way that your body needs a definitely different stimulus in different stages of your life. And this is part of what we're trying to teach you is to understand your own body so that you know when it's time to push and when it's time to back off. And I'm obviously, I am, you know, preaching to the, the worst person on the planet. You know, like I will still go out when I've got an injury and I'll still try and when I'll got a cold and I shouldn't be. And I know, and it's a real battle inside my head. So I get this, this is a battle. But when I, you know, as I get wiser and I do start to pull back and this is where we actually have the gains because when we blow ourselves out and we over train, when we're not in a state for really strong training, this is when we start to break down emotionally.

Speaker 2: (06:41)
We start at district breakdown with the stress levels in our lives and stress is the number one most dangerous thing that we can do to our bodies. Stress is what causes us to get disease. Stress is what causes most of our problems in life. If we can lower our stress levels, then we can know of the chance that we'll get sick, we will help our immune system rebuild and all of these sort of things that we don't think about when we think just go hard or go home, you know, and like, you know, I'm a hard-ass athlete. I have been my entire life and so as new we're not, we're not softly, softly changeable when B types. Okay. But we are wiser than we were and we were 20 years ago. And we understand the need that we're not, we are not robots and you are not bullet proof and I don't care whether you're dean kinesis or you're David Goggins, you still need to recover in between these bouts of really hard ass life, you know?

Speaker 3: (07:40)
Well if you hit the nail on the head there as well, it's a, it's often a, I'll say to a lot of people that we're, we're working with and a lot of people we coach one on one lease. Is that, is that use your experiences to your advantage to part of the training plan is, is and should be. What's your history and what's your experience? If you've got experience with doing marathons, half marathons, ultramarathons you can use that to, your advantage has gotten, as you were just saying, so you've now got experience in doing things. You now know what works and what doesn't. So actually go through this daily checklist of subjects you're looking at where you're at. You can really start to create your own rulebook this, you can start to see and go, right. I know that historically that's what I've done well or that's what I've not done so well.

Speaker 3: (08:21)
I can now really start to focus on certain areas. If someone is coming in to do their first marathon with us at first half marathon and their first ultra marathon, if it's their first one, I want them to hurt a little bit more in training. I'll want to push them a little bit further because we need to not just train them physiologically. We need to train them psychologically as well and prepared them for that. If you're coming off the bat, which a lot of our athletes are multiple events, then a lot of that is already trained so we can, we can now get wise with the training because it doesn't need to hurt so much because that that is already ingrained.

Speaker 2: (08:54)
Fight through pain. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (08:55)
Exactly, and then especially that was a fine example is with when with the coaching that I was doing and continue to do with you is is that's there. You've got to remember what you already know because that would allow you to go to places that you couldn't, you couldn't have done, you could have done before. The other, the other piece of the puzzle is, is that you, by changing these things, we can change our environment so we can really start to change how our body's responding. If we're adding more hydration in, if we're changing our sleeping environment, that changes our us from a physiological, biological level level as well, which means then all of a sudden results just starts climber. So it's connecting the dots between do all of these things might be a better runner? Yes. Oh, they actually specifically to do with running, not directly, but they get to get an increase in a response in, in performance. So if you want to be wise, start using it, start doing it. Start thinking outside of the square.

Speaker 2: (09:49)
Yeah. And not just going harder and harder and harder and using those risk phases for exactly that to rest to recover. Because that is when you get better. You don't, when you go to the gym or when you go running and you actually braking muscles, you're actually causing microtears and things. So it's not that that's actually causing the improvement. Those kids are there. And then the, it's the body's recovery response, which only happens when you go and sleep and recover and rest and digest and still water. That parasympathetic nervous system stuff is when you actually get stronger. So if you just going back to back to back to back smashing yourself, smashing your smell and in thinking that you're going to get stronger and no, you're not going to because you haven't got that balance of oscillating between the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system and we really need that balance and auditor to have those, those breakthroughs and those improvements and not to plateau. Right.

Speaker 3: (10:47)
Total. Certainly some of the some of the changes you most we, we've spoken about the, you've gone for a more sort of bite sized piece of, of Excise Sundays. So rather than doing the long bouts, you've been getting some great results with shorter sort of 10 to 20 minute workouts. Also with how you've been integrating some of some more of the yoga stuff. Yeah. Your mindset is changed with Coz chatting to you and listen to you. It's all the benefits you now get from some of your yoga sessions are significantly greater than they would have been a few years ago. Yeah. And you're really starting to feel and see the benefits and then enjoying your runs more when you go for them as a result of it.

Speaker 2: (11:20)
Yeah. So I had a few years ago and you know, most of us as well heard this perhaps, but total burnout after running through New Zealand and doing this valley and doing all those other crazy Himalayan races. And I was getting to a point where the, I was doing the races and I, I was starting to break. I was just really sick. My body was starting to break down and I was starting to get health issues. So major health issues came along. Then of course, mom came along and with her with her major issues. And so my whole life priorities changed around and so I was forced into the situation of having slow or change is a better response. So I couldn't spend 20, 30 hours a week training like I'd done previously. And so that means I could head to go and actually listen to the offer change, changing culminate and some other things because the stress levels were through the roof.

Speaker 2: (12:09)
The cortisol was all over the place, the adrenaline, all of those things were just far schools. We talked about the start with load. They were all in the, all in the pulling the toilet, yet they were absolutely rock bottom. And so I had to start rebuilding my body again and trying to find my health again and let alone my fitness, getting it back up to speed. And so doing by doing a combination of very short, high intensity workouts, like crossfit style stuff and weight training and being in a, in a anabolic state and not just in a catabolic state all the time. And then adding in some Yoga. And which I really found had, by the way. I mean, I've, I've been a joke, plops life. Yeah. So I was, you know, I, I get the, how I'm controlling the body and movement and you know, dancing and gymnastics and stuff, but I still found yoga because it's slow and it's very brief controlled and all of those things actually bloody hard.

Speaker 2: (13:09)
And I know a lot of athletes do. We'd rather go for a run and go to a yoga class. And it takes a shift. You have to do it a number of times until you start to feel the actual benefits of it. And, but the thing that, what yoga does and what [inaudible] does or any sort of mobility with massage, all of these things start to get the body out of the sympathetic state into a parasympathetic dominant state. So that means you're shutting down the stress release of, of stress hormones. So your cortisol and your, your adrenaline's and norepinepherine than you know what, all of those sort of stress hormones, which are we need at certain times, but we don't want to be in that state all day. And if we've got a stressful life, then we tend to be in that state all the time.

Speaker 2: (13:55)
So we, you know, the the excess what is it? The hypothalamus, the Draino. Anyway, it keeps releasing hormones all day. And what that does is that means that your like parasympathetic or sympathetic dominant. So you're pushing out all these stress hormones in your actually slowing down your immune system. You're actually slowing down your digestive processes, you're slowing down the reproduction of new cells being made. Because these are only, these processes are mostly done when we're in a relaxed state. That's why they call it rest and digest sort of a state in the parasympathetic state. And so when you go and do a yoga or meditation or a deep breathing exercise, which sounds like woo, you know, it sounds like, ah, I just want to go and punch a punching bag or run up a mountain because that's the way we program. But if are in a state of stress and we've got to be actually encouraging more stress that way.

Speaker 2: (14:55)
And when we slow down and we go and do a yoga class, what it does is actually tunes off all those stress hormones from being produced and now our body can go into, oh, it's time for going and repairing. It's time for digesting. It's time for sitting my immune system up so that it can ask, go and fight the bad things that are coming in their bodies. And when we don't, and we ignore that for too long, that's when we get sick. That's when we get diseases. That's when we get start to break down mentally and emotionally and physically. And this is why you can't stay in that highly stressed out state without effects. And this is why this balance between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system is so crucial and you cannot, I've heard, and I've said this in the past before, I don't need to meditate.

Speaker 2: (15:38)
I go run and running east into top of meditation, but it's, it's in the sympathetic state of being and then that is by its own definition, not a recovery state. So it while you, you might be able to clear a lot of crap out of your thinking and you might be able to you know, get your body breathing well and all of that sort of stuff. It isn't a restroom recovery activity going for a walk in the park and enjoying the flowers and nature and the birds singing. Now that will turn your parasympathetic nervous system want. And it can be as simple as that. It can be as simple as going to the scene staring out at the ocean for us and hour these things. Turn our parasympathetic nervous system on and calm the body down and let your body actually do it's repair processes, which actually is, you know, the anti aging, the ND disease, the MD.

Speaker 2: (16:31)
Everything, you know, it's crucial that we have that oscillation. This is why, you know, everything is as a seesaw. We need to be trying to stay balanced all the time. And that doesn't mean that we can't go and do crazy ass things, but it does mean that afterwards we're going to have to go out and recover and repair. And you know, like we have this conversation with Carlos, so he coached it running hot coaching and amazing man who's done was doing 12 outros over a hundred kilometers, including a hundred miles in 24 hour rices and Multi Day stage races inside 12 months. And you did that last year. And then this year is having trouble because he's in the recovery phase. And psychologically that causes a lot of stress because we don't, we're used to going hard out, you know, and this is why you know, it takes a psychological shift and it's understanding that you're not letting go. You're not being useless. You're not going to put on 50 kilos. In fact, the opposite is often true because you're allowing the stress hormones. You probably find that you, if you're carrying a little bit extra weight, I want you to lose it. Doing the yoga, then you are doing the running and all of these things is counter intuitive, isn't it? Next time,

Speaker 3: (17:38)
But certainly counter intuitive in the the, the beauty of what we've put together for all the listeners is that we can now identify with a simple wellness check and a very subjective and easy way in a daily that you can see exactly where you're at. Yeah, you're just getting up you guys through your chat list and if you chat loose, slow, then we want to do something that, as you rightly say, is going to take us into a parasympathetic system. If you schools are rock and roll, then the they're up there and they're high. Then that's where that's the ultimate aim is we're like that on a consistent basis and the way we'll get like that on a consistent basis if we get the balance right between parasympathetic. So it sees as you've been talking about Lisa and sympathetic activities, we get the balance right.

Speaker 3: (18:17)
And the other thing is as well as understands that that is going to be very different for each of us individually. The once you get the balance right and no one, I say this to many people we're coaching, no one knows your body better than you though. So we're here to give you advice. We're here to mentor you, to coach you, to take you through and teach you, but we're always going to ask you to listen to what your own body's telling you because you are with it every day. You are going to know it better than anyone. Once you start listening to it, it will tell you what you exactly what you need to do to get the best out of it

Speaker 2: (18:45)
And not overriding the signals that are coming from your body during the night. Oh and hurts. It's hurting my, my bones are hurting my everything's liking out. Just toughen up and take a teaspoon of concrete and get over it. And there are times when you need to go there, right? To have that ability, but it's not general, not for general health, you know, not for general health. And that's why the sort of conversations are important for a lot of people. Don't actually hear and understand. And you know if you're a woman, you've got hormones and you've got cycles as another reason why you need to, you know, be on top of what's happening in your cycle and making sure you don't check yourself over the each one way or the other and that you don't get adrenal problems and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2: (19:24)
So I think this has been a really interesting conversation today. We haven't covered, you know, things in depth here, but if you want to find out more, if you want to get this wellness check, then reach out to us. You can reach me on this or@leastyourtammany.com. And we've got to put in the show notes, a link to the the guides that we've produced, which is all about how to tell if you're over training or under training and what to do about it. And of course we'd love you to come and join us at running hot coaching. If you want in a holistic run training system that isn't going to burn you out, that isn't going to break you. It isn't gonna end up with injuries necessarily. There's always a few that will creep in when we twist their ankle or whatever. But if you want to be able to prepare your body so that you don't just break down because you're starting to overcook, then come and check out our system, head on over to Lisa tammany.com and she can air running programs. And neo, anything final to add to those words today?

Speaker 3: (20:21)
Nice spot. And Lisa as always spot on. It's yeah, it's just, it's just doing it. Do it. Take the time to, to have a look at where you're at each day is time well spent. It's a minimal amount of time, a few minutes each day. For me, when I started doing it and we've now started using it with all our all our coaching clients, it just makes the world of difference.

Speaker 2: (20:39)
Yeah. And, and this is really aimed at those people who are experienced, you know, and who are perhaps getting a little bit older and perhaps doing the same way they've always done them and not listening to the bodies. It's, it's genuinely not the problem of the beginner. The beginner is has to learn to read the body as well, but they need more structure in the program, as Neil was saying earlier, so that they understand how to you know, push through barriers and push through pain and all that sort of stuff. But when you experienced in doing that and you're not getting the results that you should be getting, this might be the reason why. So take that to heart and I hope that that's helped today. So thank you guys and we'll be back again next week. We've got another great session with Neil I think next week. So stay tuned and as always, please give us a rating and review. Really, really appreciate that. Help us get some exposure on iTunes. You can do that rating and review there or just reach out to us if you've got any questions around running around mindset, around nutrition. We'd love to hear from you Neil and I and the team, so please reach out to us and we'll see you again next week.

Speaker 1: (21:44)
Thanks, Lisa. That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at lisatamati.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Many athletes have the attitude you just have to go hard all the time, they are tough and unbending when it comes to training, they know it sometimes hurts and is hard and you just have to deal with that. Take a teaspoon of concrete and harden up and this attitude has some great benefits with your sporting and fitness ambitions but can also . have great benefits for other areas of your life. You learn mental toughness and how to push through, however this approach can also lead to burnout and adrenal exhaustion, a break down of the immune system even hormone imbalances and stress. The body doesn't improve during the training phase it actually improves when you are resting and recovering and so it is crucial to factor this in and to make sure you are ready for your hard workouts prior to doing them.

In this episode Lisa Tamati and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff talk about how to tell where you body is at and how to read the signals it is giving you so that you can optimise your performance and stay in optimal health without compromise.

They have also prepared a free guide to download so you can assess your own body and this can be downloaded at

https://rhexercise.lisatamati.com/exercise

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Show Transcription

 Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by LisaTamati.com.     Speaker 2   00:14 Well, hi everybody Lisa Tamati here, pushing the limits here with my wing man. Neil Wagstaff Neil how are you're doing.     Speaker 3   00:19 I'm good. Thank you. I'm good.     Speaker 2   00:20 We've got another great episode already for you guys today. I hope you're all excited. Now today we are going to be talking about how to tell if you are under or over-training. And this might be very counter intuitive for a lot of the people who are just saying go hard, go harder or go home. But we want to talk to you a little bit about finding balance in, in actually how to, how to work out whether your body is actually trying to tell you that it's time to pull back, have a bit of recovery time and what to do there. So Neil, take it away.     Speaker 3   00:53 Take it away. It's although as you, some of you may seen out there that moment, we've got a great guide and one of ebooks which were put in the show notes afterwards on how to work out if you're under or over on the training so that I'll have all the content and for you guys at the end. But we use with our athletes and ourselves as well by Felicia and I, we use our, the running hot coaching wellness check and that wellness wellness check it take you through a series of serious different things to look at. Very subjective. And all you're going to do is write yourself on a scale of one to ten one being that you are feeling like you're in the toilet, 10 being that you are rock and roll in, you are all, all guns blazing. you're on fire.     Speaker 3   01:31 Okay. So you are going to do this and rate yourself on a simple one to 10 scale with your sleep, your nutrition, hydration, movement, any injuries or niggles you've got your energy levels and then your stress levels as well. So seven things you're gonna check in on each of those. As I say, you right for one. So if you're scoring a one on everything and you base it in the toilet, does that equal going out and doing a high intensity interval training? No heel repeats? Probably not. So likewise, if you're up at a 10 and you've got all this energy in the tank, you should be able to go out and do a do a tough session. I just want to dig a little bit deeper into it because what you're gonna find as you collect this information each day, and we can send you out the spreadsheet we used to do this afterwards as well, is it will start to develop a picture for you.     Speaker 3   02:17 You simply get up in the morning, have a look through, doesn't take any time at all, and you just go, right, where am I at? Scale of one to 10. Just go through your, your check, see where your schools are at and you'll start see a pattern developing side. Personally. Also a pattern developing with my sleep. My sleep was where my scores were low. And do you niggles coming in as well? So very quickly identified to me that the area I needed to be working on was my, was my sleep. Whereas in hindsight, years gone by, if I wanted to get better in my running, I would have done nine times or 10 times out of 10 I would have gone out and done another info session. We'll go on out and then another hill session or run my longer run would've had half an hour added to it because in my head many years ago, to be a better runner, you need to run more than an exit.     Speaker 3   03:03 We used to have this same conversation as well when I started coaching with you, Lisa. But it's what we've learned now is that now by me addressing my sleep, guess what? That's making me a better runner. So dropping a session each week. So going from five day run days a week to full run days a week and getting my sleep from six and a half hours to seven and a half, eight hours, I've become a better runner and we're finding exactly the same thing's happening with all the people using it with often the things that are popping up will be hydration issues is that, imagine again the same thing you will get. You're going out and doing your running with people that we're talking to are going out and doing. They're running, they're doing more running cause I think that's gonna make them a better runner, higher intensity, more volume and they're doing it in a day hydrated state.     Speaker 3   03:44 So all they're doing by adding more load and volume and intensity is the becoming a worse runner, more injured runner and more unhealthy runner folks on the hydration instead because you've identified that as the area you need to work on, all of a sudden it starts, it starts improving thing that we want to point out as well as chatting to one of our clients over in the states yesterday. Lovely lady we worked with over there and in some of the time is fine understanding it and you and I have been here, Lisa, we've been at many times. It's fine when you understand all this, all this makes perfect sense from a science point of view and a theory point of view, application is the hardest bit. So I've programmed her to have a, she was on a five day run, we were starting to go into a taper program that I started dropping it down into four days and she understood why but it was now what am I going to do with Wednesday?     Speaker 2   04:33 Yeah. I'm psychologically not coping.     Speaker 3   04:35 Yeah. Well I haven't been Wednesday. Wednesdays are run day. What happens with Wednesday? So it's also, if you are playing with it and your schools are telling you you needs to meet an easy day, replace it with something that you can go and have fun with. So get 'em replace it with a yoga class for example. Or go for a walk instead of a run going, do something you enjoy but enjoy that day. Yeah. It's been given to you to fill your tank a little bit more, fill your cup a little bit more, give you a little bit more energy, which is gonna make you a better runner,     Speaker 2   05:01 Okay? She does not mean that you're a lazy ass. Not mean that you are useless, that you are not tough enough.     Speaker 3   05:08 Listen, somebody songs and we had that conversation     Speaker 2   05:11 Very, very many times and we still have it though. We knew it because you know, psychologically is athletes. We are often very much Taipei crews to the, all of these. We'd go get us. We want to, we want to work hard, we want to fight hard, we want to play hard. But which is fine and this is obviously, it's really fun when you're a 20 year old and you don't have a lot of other things on your plate, okay? And you get away with a heck of a lot more. Just like you could get away with partying and then going running a marathon the next day when you were 20. Not so great when you're 50. And in things you have to change as you get older. With each, with each decade, you need to look at things differently. That does not mean that you get weaker, that you get lazier, that you use ages and excuse.     Speaker 2   05:53 It just means you was up to the way that your body needs a definitely different stimulus in different stages of your life. And this is part of what we're trying to teach you is to understand your own body so that you know when it's time to push and when it's time to back off. And I'm obviously, I am, you know, preaching to the, the worst person on the planet. You know, like I will still go out when I've got an injury and I'll still try and when I'll got a cold and I shouldn't be. And I know, and it's a real battle inside my head. So I get this, this is a battle. But when I, you know, as I get wiser and I do start to pull back and this is where we actually have the gains because when we blow ourselves out and we over train, when we're not in a state for really strong training, this is when we start to break down emotionally.     Speaker 2   06:41 We start at district breakdown with the stress levels in our lives and stress is the number one most dangerous thing that we can do to our bodies. Stress is what causes us to get disease. Stress is what causes most of our problems in life. If we can lower our stress levels, then we can know of the chance that we'll get sick, we will help our immune system rebuild and all of these sort of things that we don't think about when we think just go hard or go home, you know, and like, you know, I'm a hard-ass athlete. I have been my entire life and so as new we're not, we're not softly, softly changeable when B types. Okay. But we are wiser than we were and we were 20 years ago. And we understand the need that we're not, we are not robots and you are not bullet proof and I don't care whether you're dean kinesis or you're David Goggins, you still need to recover in between these bouts of really hard ass life, you know?     Speaker 3   07:40 Well if you hit the nail on the head there as well, it's a, it's often a, I'll say to a lot of people that we're, we're working with and a lot of people we coach one on one lease. Is that, is that use your experiences to your advantage to part of the training plan is, is and should be. What's your history and what's your experience? If you've got experience with doing marathons, half marathons, ultramarathons you can use that to, your advantage has gotten, as you were just saying, so you've now got experience in doing things. You now know what works and what doesn't. So actually go through this daily checklist of subjects you're looking at where you're at. You can really start to create your own rulebook this, you can start to see and go, right. I know that historically that's what I've done well or that's what I've not done so well.     Speaker 3   08:21 I can now really start to focus on certain areas. If someone is coming in to do their first marathon with us at first half marathon and their first ultra marathon, if it's their first one, I want them to hurt a little bit more in training. I'll want to push them a little bit further because we need to not just train them physiologically. We need to train them psychologically as well and prepared them for that. If you're coming off the bat, which a lot of our athletes are multiple events, then a lot of that is already trained so we can, we can now get wise with the training because it doesn't need to hurt so much because that that is already ingrained.     Speaker 2   08:54 Fight through pain. Yeah,     Speaker 3   08:55 Exactly, and then especially that was a fine example is with when with the coaching that I was doing and continue to do with you is is that's there. You've got to remember what you already know because that would allow you to go to places that you couldn't, you couldn't have done, you could have done before. The other, the other piece of the puzzle is, is that you, by changing these things, we can change our environment so we can really start to change how our body's responding. If we're adding more hydration in, if we're changing our sleeping environment, that changes our us from a physiological, biological level level as well, which means then all of a sudden results just starts climber. So it's connecting the dots between do all of these things might be a better runner? Yes. Oh, they actually specifically to do with running, not directly, but they get to get an increase in a response in, in performance. So if you want to be wise, start using it, start doing it. Start thinking outside of the square.     Speaker 2   09:49 Yeah. And not just going harder and harder and harder and using those risk phases for exactly that to rest to recover. Because that is when you get better. You don't, when you go to the gym or when you go running and you actually braking muscles, you're actually causing microtears and things. So it's not that that's actually causing the improvement. Those kids are there. And then the, it's the body's recovery response, which only happens when you go and sleep and recover and rest and digest and still water. That parasympathetic nervous system stuff is when you actually get stronger. So if you just going back to back to back to back smashing yourself, smashing your smell and in thinking that you're going to get stronger and no, you're not going to because you haven't got that balance of oscillating between the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system and we really need that balance and auditor to have those, those breakthroughs and those improvements and not to plateau. Right.     Speaker 3   10:47 Total. Certainly some of the some of the changes you most we, we've spoken about the, you've gone for a more sort of bite sized piece of, of Excise Sundays. So rather than doing the long bouts, you've been getting some great results with shorter sort of 10 to 20 minute workouts. Also with how you've been integrating some of some more of the yoga stuff. Yeah. Your mindset is changed with Coz chatting to you and listen to you. It's all the benefits you now get from some of your yoga sessions are significantly greater than they would have been a few years ago. Yeah. And you're really starting to feel and see the benefits and then enjoying your runs more when you go for them as a result of it.     Speaker 2   11:20 Yeah. So I had a few years ago and you know, most of us as well heard this perhaps, but total burnout after running through New Zealand and doing this valley and doing all those other crazy Himalayan races. And I was getting to a point where the, I was doing the races and I, I was starting to break. I was just really sick. My body was starting to break down and I was starting to get health issues. So major health issues came along. Then of course, mom came along and with her with her major issues. And so my whole life priorities changed around and so I was forced into the situation of having slow or change is a better response. So I couldn't spend 20, 30 hours a week training like I'd done previously. And so that means I could head to go and actually listen to the offer change, changing culminate and some other things because the stress levels were through the roof.     Speaker 2   12:09 The cortisol was all over the place, the adrenaline, all of those things were just far schools. We talked about the start with load. They were all in the, all in the pulling the toilet, yet they were absolutely rock bottom. And so I had to start rebuilding my body again and trying to find my health again and let alone my fitness, getting it back up to speed. And so doing by doing a combination of very short, high intensity workouts, like crossfit style stuff and weight training and being in a, in a anabolic state and not just in a catabolic state all the time. And then adding in some Yoga. And which I really found had, by the way. I mean, I've, I've been a joke, plops life. Yeah. So I was, you know, I, I get the, how I'm controlling the body and movement and you know, dancing and gymnastics and stuff, but I still found yoga because it's slow and it's very brief controlled and all of those things actually bloody hard.     Speaker 2   13:09 And I know a lot of athletes do. We'd rather go for a run and go to a yoga class. And it takes a shift. You have to do it a number of times until you start to feel the actual benefits of it. And, but the thing that, what yoga does and what [inaudible] does or any sort of mobility with massage, all of these things start to get the body out of the sympathetic state into a parasympathetic dominant state. So that means you're shutting down the stress release of, of stress hormones. So your cortisol and your, your adrenaline's and norepinepherine than you know what, all of those sort of stress hormones, which are we need at certain times, but we don't want to be in that state all day. And if we've got a stressful life, then we tend to be in that state all the time.     Speaker 2   13:55 So we, you know, the the excess what is it? The hypothalamus, the Draino. Anyway, it keeps releasing hormones all day. And what that does is that means that your like parasympathetic or sympathetic dominant. So you're pushing out all these stress hormones in your actually slowing down your immune system. You're actually slowing down your digestive processes, you're slowing down the reproduction of new cells being made. Because these are only, these processes are mostly done when we're in a relaxed state. That's why they call it rest and digest sort of a state in the parasympathetic state. And so when you go and do a yoga or meditation or a deep breathing exercise, which sounds like woo, you know, it sounds like, ah, I just want to go and punch a punching bag or run up a mountain because that's the way we program. But if are in a state of stress and we've got to be actually encouraging more stress that way.     Speaker 2   14:55 And when we slow down and we go and do a yoga class, what it does is actually tunes off all those stress hormones from being produced and now our body can go into, oh, it's time for going and repairing. It's time for digesting. It's time for sitting my immune system up so that it can ask, go and fight the bad things that are coming in their bodies. And when we don't, and we ignore that for too long, that's when we get sick. That's when we get diseases. That's when we get start to break down mentally and emotionally and physically. And this is why you can't stay in that highly stressed out state without effects. And this is why this balance between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system is so crucial and you cannot, I've heard, and I've said this in the past before, I don't need to meditate.     Speaker 2   15:38 I go run and running east into top of meditation, but it's, it's in the sympathetic state of being and then that is by its own definition, not a recovery state. So it while you, you might be able to clear a lot of crap out of your thinking and you might be able to you know, get your body breathing well and all of that sort of stuff. It isn't a restroom recovery activity going for a walk in the park and enjoying the flowers and nature and the birds singing. Now that will turn your parasympathetic nervous system want. And it can be as simple as that. It can be as simple as going to the scene staring out at the ocean for us and hour these things. Turn our parasympathetic nervous system on and calm the body down and let your body actually do it's repair processes, which actually is, you know, the anti aging, the ND disease, the MD.     Speaker 2   16:31 Everything, you know, it's crucial that we have that oscillation. This is why, you know, everything is as a seesaw. We need to be trying to stay balanced all the time. And that doesn't mean that we can't go and do crazy ass things, but it does mean that afterwards we're going to have to go out and recover and repair. And you know, like we have this conversation with Carlos, so he coached it running hot coaching and amazing man who's done was doing 12 outros over a hundred kilometers, including a hundred miles in 24 hour rices and Multi Day stage races inside 12 months. And you did that last year. And then this year is having trouble because he's in the recovery phase. And psychologically that causes a lot of stress because we don't, we're used to going hard out, you know, and this is why you know, it takes a psychological shift and it's understanding that you're not letting go. You're not being useless. You're not going to put on 50 kilos. In fact, the opposite is often true because you're allowing the stress hormones. You probably find that you, if you're carrying a little bit extra weight, I want you to lose it. Doing the yoga, then you are doing the running and all of these things is counter intuitive, isn't it? Next time,     Speaker 3   17:38 But certainly counter intuitive in the the, the beauty of what we've put together for all the listeners is that we can now identify with a simple wellness check and a very subjective and easy way in a daily that you can see exactly where you're at. Yeah, you're just getting up you guys through your chat list and if you chat loose, slow, then we want to do something that, as you rightly say, is going to take us into a parasympathetic system. If you schools are rock and roll, then the they're up there and they're high. Then that's where that's the ultimate aim is we're like that on a consistent basis and the way we'll get like that on a consistent basis if we get the balance right between parasympathetic. So it sees as you've been talking about Lisa and sympathetic activities, we get the balance right.     Speaker 3   18:17 And the other thing is as well as understands that that is going to be very different for each of us individually. The once you get the balance right and no one, I say this to many people we're coaching, no one knows your body better than you though. So we're here to give you advice. We're here to mentor you, to coach you, to take you through and teach you, but we're always going to ask you to listen to what your own body's telling you because you are with it every day. You are going to know it better than anyone. Once you start listening to it, it will tell you what you exactly what you need to do to get the best out of it     Speaker 2   18:45 And not overriding the signals that are coming from your body during the night. Oh and hurts. It's hurting my, my bones are hurting my everything's liking out. Just toughen up and take a teaspoon of concrete and get over it. And there are times when you need to go there, right? To have that ability, but it's not general, not for general health, you know, not for general health. And that's why the sort of conversations are important for a lot of people. Don't actually hear and understand. And you know if you're a woman, you've got hormones and you've got cycles as another reason why you need to, you know, be on top of what's happening in your cycle and making sure you don't check yourself over the each one way or the other and that you don't get adrenal problems and so on and so forth.     Speaker 2   19:24 So I think this has been a really interesting conversation today. We haven't covered, you know, things in depth here, but if you want to find out more, if you want to get this wellness check, then reach out to us. You can reach me on this or@leastyourtammany.com. And we've got to put in the show notes, a link to the the guides that we've produced, which is all about how to tell if you're over training or under training and what to do about it. And of course we'd love you to come and join us at running hot coaching. If you want in a holistic run training system that isn't going to burn you out, that isn't going to break you. It isn't gonna end up with injuries necessarily. There's always a few that will creep in when we twist their ankle or whatever. But if you want to be able to prepare your body so that you don't just break down because you're starting to overcook, then come and check out our system, head on over to Lisa tammany.com and she can air running programs. And neo, anything final to add to those words today?     Speaker 3   20:21 Nice spot. And Lisa as always spot on. It's yeah, it's just, it's just doing it. Do it. Take the time to, to have a look at where you're at each day is time well spent. It's a minimal amount of time, a few minutes each day. For me, when I started doing it and we've now started using it with all our all our coaching clients, it just makes the world of difference.     Speaker 2   20:39 Yeah. And, and this is really aimed at those people who are experienced, you know, and who are perhaps getting a little bit older and perhaps doing the same way they've always done them and not listening to the bodies. It's, it's genuinely not the problem of the beginner. The beginner is has to learn to read the body as well, but they need more structure in the program, as Neil was saying earlier, so that they understand how to you know, push through barriers and push through pain and all that sort of stuff. But when you experienced in doing that and you're not getting the results that you should be getting, this might be the reason why. So take that to heart and I hope that that's helped today. So thank you guys and we'll be back again next week. We've got another great session with Neil I think next week. So stay tuned and as always, please give us a rating and review. Really, really appreciate that. Help us get some exposure on iTunes. You can do that rating and review there or just reach out to us if you've got any questions around running around mindset, around nutrition. We'd love to hear from you Neil and I and the team, so please reach out to us and we'll see you again next week.     Speaker 1   21:44 Thanks, Lisa. That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team, at lisatamati.com    *The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.*

View Details

Rachel Grunwell is one of New Zealands' best know health and wellness experts and enthusiastic marathon runner. She is an award-winning journalist and has just released the book Balance: Food, health + Happiness which which features 30 global experts sharing science-backed advice on living healthier and happier.

But Rachel wasn't always a fitness queen. Up until 7 years ago she was a hard hitting investigative journalist and had three small children and was by her own admission extremely unfit. She had never been into any type of sport and thought those people that did all that just had different genes that she did.

But then she was offered a column writing about fitness and health and this led her on an unexpected journey of self discovery and a complete change of lifestyle.

Now Rachel helps others turn their lives around and teaches running, yoga and mindfulness when not writing books and articles. She is also the ambassador for the Achiles Foundation and helps support disabled athletes compete in marathons and other races.

In this interview Lisa and Rachel delve into some of the learnings she discovered through interviewing 30 global leading health, fitness and performance experts from neuroscientists to nutritionists and about her own personal journey.

Here’s a link to find out more about Rachel and Balance https://inspiredhealth.co.nz

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.

Wouldn’t it be great if your body came with a user manual? Which foods should you eat, and which ones should you avoid? When, and how often should you be eating? What type of exercise does your body respond best to, and when is it best to exercise?

These are just some of the questions you’ll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There’s a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the “future of personalised health”, as it unlocks the user manual you’ll wish you’d been born with!

No more guess work. The program, developed by an international team of independent doctors, researchers, and technology programmers for over 15 years, uses a powerful epigenetics analysis platform informed by 100% evidenced-based medical research.

The platform uses over 500 algorithms and 10,000 data points per user, to analyse body measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

Find out more about our Epigenetics Program and how it can change your life and help you reach optimal health, happiness and potential at: https://runninghotcoaching.com/epigenetics

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

Transcription

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Well. Hi everybody. It's Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you tune in for today's show and I'll have a wonderful guest coming up for you, but before I reveal who that is this week, I just wanted to let you know once again, if you want to reach out to me, you can do so. Lisa at Lisatamati.com,if you've got any questions around today's show or any of the past episodes or anything about running fitness, nutrition mindset, epigenetics, any of the things that we like to talk about on the show, then please don't hesitate to reach out to me. You can also check us out on Lisatamati.com that's our main website where we have all our programs listed and you can find out about live retreats and follow our blog. We'd really appreciate you checking out that stuff on there and getting back to us if you need any help with anything. Umow today I have a really amazing interview with one of New Zealand's top, ealth and wellness experts, a lady by the name of Rachel Grunwell. Now, many of you might've heard of Rachel. She's just put out a book called Balance, u,ich I'm going to talk to her about today. Um,e's a mom of three. She was an investigative journalist who tuned them her hand to learning about everything, health, fitness. And when she does something, she does it properly. Does our Rachel. So without further ado, I'd like you to introduce you to Rachel Grunwell.

Speaker 2: (01:25)
Yeah, well, hello everybody. It's Lisa Tamti here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you back again for another fantastic episode. I'm really, really excited about this one. I've got a lady that I've followed for a long time on social media and heard great things about here. So I've got Rachel Grunwell.

(01:40)
You should hear that, right? She's on pushing the limits and it's really, really exciting. So, Rachel, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: (01:46)
Thanks for having me on, Lisa. It's great to be here.

Speaker 2: (01:49)
Well, it's fantastic to have you now for those of you who live under a rock and don't know who Rachel is. Rachel is a journalist and she's also an author and a wellness and health experts. Uand Rachel, I want you to go back and just give us a little bit background about you, your life, your, your, you know, how you got into this because you came from investigative journalism of all things and like you've very, very different so, right. So take it away. Tell us, tell us a little about yourself.

Speaker 3: (02:19)
Yeah. So on a previous life, I was a very hard noise journalist for 25 years actually. And I would hope politicians to account and people in power to account. And I really love the industry because you could create incredible change, you know, you could help change policies or help, you know, beyond the door when they needed help and you know, publicly whole people and power to account. And I had a dream to become an award winning journalist and I reached there,which I was very lucky to do.

Speaker 3: (02:55)
And I went on to, you know, have family and I still keep as a investigative journalist and I would work out from one day a week to two days to three days. And I had, I worked for some really amazing Editors who just met me and would take,uhow many days a week than I, I could work and build up to after I had my food, some,ufun. It was by luck. And by chance they, I was offered a column, a weekly column,uby the Herald on Sunday and it was a well bang column and I would try and survive all these fitness and health activities every week. And, and I always joke that if at the time I was offered the wine column, I would have believed it. That plays.,So I was, you know, it harm our circuit on, but I never been this kind of fit creature.

Speaker 3: (03:50)
And Yeah. So when I was offered the a column, it was, yeah, it was really great cause I thought, yes, please. I'd really like to learn myself. I was really confused about nutrition. I was so unfit. I was really unfit mom, I would struggle to push a pram around the block and look, I was half in path and I found it really difficult. And I thought people who are really fit were like lady Gaga. They were born this way. Seriously though, different base. They had different genes to me and you know, I was such a Guinea pig with it column and you know, I tried juicing diets and got really hangry, hungry, angry. I tried a soup thing,tried dancing and I was worse than a certain politician. I had totally fate., nd I started a run and I started, u, it would've been seven years ago now.

Speaker 3: (04:47)
And I really, I just thought I've just got to show up. I've just got to try and I really don't understand this, but I'll just see if I can run a fun run one day. And I started with a 20 minutes walk from routine around the block today, two times a week. And I did that for a few weeks and I hated it. I was kind of a firing John. I was awful. And I, you know, it was really hard and I was there on foot and it was horrible. But I just, I, one thing I'm really good at is just being bloody-minded running. Yeah. Yeah. And especially in your realm. Oh my God. I don't know how you do it. You're like, I be principals really just go one step further than you've been before. And seriously, Ollie. God, yeah. Sorry. I just, I started there and you know, after a few weeks I thought, oh my God, I actually, I can run a little bit longer or I'm doing least walking then then I was before I can run a little bit longer. I, I feel a little bit stronger. Wow. I can really feel less in HD. You can really measure it. That's the coolest thing about running, right, is it you can meet your major, your progress and yeah. So once I could run 25 minutes I went to a PT and I said, look, if you can get me to run 10 k's you or 30 minutes unbroken, you won't be a PT. You'll be an m him. And he's like, what's that? Right. And he's like, miracle. Like you'd be a miracle Micah.

Speaker 2: (06:29)
Okay.

Speaker 3: (06:31)
And yeah, and, but I just showed up to training and I just keep going and got stronger and fitter and yeah. And then I did a ten km then a half marathon and then within a year I did my first marathon in. Fast forward to today and I'm about to run my 25th marathon. And a lot of them are give backs, which is guiding disabled athletes. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (06:55)
That's amazing. We'll get into that. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (06:57)
And since I've qualified in the industry, so qualified coach, I help people lose weight, get for level life, they love and and a really holistic way. So I don't just help them train or really care about how they're living their lives and how, how to be them best selves and Qualified Yoga teacher minutes in meditation. And there's a cross of passions as you would a little bit similar, like as, I love what you do, cause I've worked with a lot of athletes elite runners to weekend warriors crossfitters dancers to moms, moms and daughters are teaching yoga. And I worked with a lot of big brains teaching mindfulness and meditation and Yoga and stuff now. So that year were the bet athletes, you know, you need to rebalance your body or otherwise you're going to break.

Speaker 2: (07:49)
I'm sorry I went to that too. You know, as coaches, you know, we've, we've, you know, like I as an athlete did it all wrong for many, many years of broke myself basically by not having that holistic approach. And it's really important for us to be as conscious as that. We really look at the whole person their whole life and where they're at and how do we keep them forward without, without breaking them, without boon out, without getting lots of injuries and really looking at the whole health and not just their run times, you know. So that's why, you know, our philosophies align really nicely there. And you know, you've, you've touched on meditation and Yoga there. What's your take? I mean, I'm right into meditation and I actually self hypnosis and things like that as well and reprogramming. Have you, how's meditation help you in your life and you know, what's your take on the whole, you know, Yoga, meditation sort of world?

Speaker 3: (08:50)
Yeah. So I teach it now at retreats and in, you know, big events with and things like that and what's been really transferable formative for me, like I was the worst and meditator and I had a terrible monkey mind, you know, like my mind was all over the flies and what helped me was just starting small. It's like starting at run journey, right? It's like the first person who prescribed meditation to me gave me 30 minutes and I just went like, oh no, I'm going to do that. Like it was so overwhelming and I just didn't do a minute of it. But the second and I started small and I started slowly and I did a minute, then, you know, he's huge magic in there and I can do that. And that's how I train my mind in mindfulness has been transformative for many and how I live my life.

Speaker 3: (09:44)
And, you know, mindfulness just for anyone out there who, who's not,uhugely ensuring whether it's about not being stuck in the past. Sorry, I spent, I wasted a lot of my twenties and thirties,,feeling really angry and upset in stuck about certain things that had happened to me or how people were with me. And I really, yeah, keep too much, I think about pleasing people, but I really hung on to stuff in the past and you can't change anything in the past. So mindfulness is about leading, you know, acknowledging the past,uin , you know, not getting stuck in it. I mean, that's not been,you know, in the future cause you can't control the future. So it's, you know, having this letting go process. Uand yeah, it's just about living in an hour, celebrating the, now, seeing the absolute beauty and magic.

Speaker 2: (10:40)
And this is just so crucial. Like our lives are run by our subconscious. And that is always, you know, it with their conscious minds. We are either in the past and we were in in the future. We were always scared of what's going to happen to us or we're anticipating stuff or with, we're upset about what's happened to us in the past and we replaying those, those things with our subconscious programming, controlling 95% of our lives. Say, you know, that we only have a very small processing capacity with our prefrontal cortex and our subconscious is actually doing 95 to 99% of the work. So we can do what we want with their conscious thinking and still not have that breakthrough because the race is happening at another level. And when you do meditation, when you do mindfulness, this is you know, what's really important is about letting go of, of the, of the past and understanding it, not blaming and not staying stuck in that cycle of emotion.

Speaker 2: (11:38)
Basically, isn't it break out of those emotional responses? Because otherwise if you're reliving every day a trauma that you had in your childhood or your past at some stage, then your body is experiencing all of that pain every damn week, you know, and every day and only doesn't know the difference between a, that was 10 years ago or what is right now. It's having those same reactions. And so we get stuck. And this is where I saying, you know, the, the meditation, the deep breathing and it's, it's totally not woo woo , is it Rachel? It's not just

Speaker 3: (12:12)
No art science back and really heavily, sorry. So, you know, psychologists prescribe mindfulness, it's in the workplace. Like I w I worked with a lot of corporates in this field and they now are really welcoming that transition to understanding the science and these disciplines. And yet it is so, transformative. And you know, part of it's getting older and a bit wiser and you know, wow. But you know, like how you choose to experience the world, it's such a big thing. You don't get to choose what happens around you or how other people behave, but you always get to choose how you show up and, and you know, I like you, you know, energy goes way energy flows. And so like, I want to put my energy into really good things and positive things. Chase dreams get shut down. You know,

Speaker 2: (13:12)
I mean to go from seeing, you know, within, within seven years, I mean, being as hard-hitting journalist to now being a wellness expert and a fitness expert and having run nearly 25 marathons that's a massive transformation. Well, bringing up three children and writing a book. I mean and I mean on the book journey, like let's, let's go there for a little bit because often the model of my third book and to go balance, everyone listening or watching this on the video, you can say, write to his book balance. It's a hell of a journey to get a book out. Isn't that right? Show?

Speaker 3: (13:48)
Oh my God, it's s hard I can't relate up to your third, like one seriously almost broke me.

Speaker 2: (13:57)
Well that's one of my third one is excellent. You was breaking Beta. I wasn't an ultra marathon runner chapter. I like it.

Speaker 3: (14:04)
Yeah. Yeah. You know, the insurance tastes thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (14:07)
So how did you always come about and what is your book about and tell us a little bit about the interviews and things that you've got on the consumer interested to, to find out all about that.

Speaker 3: (14:16)
Yeah, sorry. It's cool. Balance, food, health and happiness and it's like this ducky beautiful blue color and just really simple and design. So a lot of main rating. So that's not candy, floss, pink and color. I really love that because I work, you know, as a coach and Yogi and things I work with mean and woman. And so I, I'm sorry, plays a designer's. We with a beautiful clean design. So how it came about was I have still kept it writing arm, sorry, I'm a wellness columnist for magazine and also indulge magazine and one of those goes on the Herald online every week. And I'm so a blogger with a lot of brands and things, I've kept it writing on going as well as well as the wellness work. And over the years I'm sort of lucky because I get to interview some of the beast minds in the wellness industry, you know, nutrition, fitness, movement,umindset, a lot of the most amazing minds, not only in New Zealand, but throughout the world.

Speaker 3: (15:22)
And my journalism background as suits me really well because you know, there's the writing craft, but also, you know, the question, you know, having those, the curiosity with questions and things. And so, yeah, we took a publish a couple of years ago. I got a publishing deal. I feel very grateful for that. So hard to get there. And it's based on footie experts from throughout the world. Sharing science stacks wellness, wisdom and all the kind of categories like psychology, neuroscience is for nutritionists and the the you know, these doctors in the air, there's researchers and you know, there's a neuroscientist on the who works with all blacks, our top rowers in Formula One racing car drivers to perform at the beast everyday. Kiwis can use those pillows to live their best lives these amazing stuff on emotional intelligence.

Speaker 3: (16:22)
Like, you know, how to relate better with kids, with friends, with colleagues to be a better human I guess. And you know, there's also 30 recipes, so 30 experts and 30 recipes. So there's a lot of you know, there's like a great beetroot juice on there for runners actually because I'm such a patient at runner there's even like the exercise high explained to me by doctor and like what's going on in your brain. And there's, you know, some core science concepts in there as well, like flow, which is a secret to a life worth living is finding flow. And you know, you and I know how to find it through running. And they were at such a gift we can access, cause you know, it helps as the yogurt. That's when you lost in the moment. You are immersed in the doing, you've got this reasonably high skill set. And so, you know, we can just run and get lost in the moment and it's moving meditation,

Speaker 2: (17:25)
It flows state as something I've studied. Have you read the book? Stealing fire tonight, fantastic book. Being able to tap into flow states and what flow states are. And I think that's a really important part of, I mean I have flow states like when I'm, I'm a journalist, so I create, you know, jewelry I haven't been doing as much lately because I'm so busy with, with things. And I miss that being in that state where I, you know, five hours go by and I, and I, and I've not even notice because I'm just in the creative process. And it takes a while to get in there and you know, but it's, it's something that's just fantastically, you know, that you're actually doing what you are, you know, made to do, so to speak. And you can get that running. You can get that role acting. Depends on what your thing is, but finding that flow state, it really pulls out the beast in you. This is when you're actually in your genius. Okay.

Speaker 3: (18:22)
Yeah. It's honestly, it's the psychologist who came up with a term called it Kale. I think you know, it's a secret total life worth living. Like if you can find your flow state, whether it's making jewellery, whether it's, you know, I'm getting lost in the moment doing netting or you know, even surgeons can find flow doing surgery, they are immersed in the moment and they won't even notice like music hall on the room. They don't like just lost in the moment in the, in the doing though you can say it. Great. Great. Yeah, sorry. And I find my flow state, you know, through music as well. Also saxophone. It's like, music's really cool. And even if you love listening to music, Oh my God. And like mix music you know, great place it where you're running.

Speaker 2: (19:15)
Absolutely. I mean, yeah, my husband's a museum and it's just like I just watch him and instantly go into a flow state when he's playing his guitar and stuff. And He, I could be yelling at him that Dennis was not hearing anything cause he's [inaudible]

Speaker 3: (19:28)
I might be selective hearing

Speaker 2: (19:32)
Cause mining, but you'd think he'd come for food, but he just, he's just in a different world. And, and unlike in VM that, you know, like I know I don't have a musical instrument. So,uthat, that's just a beautiful thing to watch. And this is when humans are at the highest potential. And if we can spend at least a little bit of time everyday in that state, in, we were much happier as humans. I, yeah. And we're choosing what we want to. Yeah. I wanted to sort of, mou know, taken a left hand turn in the road and talk a little bit about, our work with Achilles and your, you know, giving back to, u,rough your running. Um, I know we actually meet through our mutual friend Ian Walker, uwho has been on the show before. Absolutely. I, Rachel, just amazing man. Ian was hit by a truck years ago while he was out and on his bike and

Speaker 3: (20:27)
And he was an amazing marathonner. I mean like really fast marathon.

Speaker 2: (20:35)
Yeah. Walk in the wheelchair and in any back to doing marathons in is a hand bike and so on. Absolutely amazing story. And then you get hit by another, a truck., I think it was a while out on his hand bike and he's ahead head to go back and he's actually even further up paralyzed now and I don't know the technical term, but it's further up the back, basically a quadriplegic now and he's fighting back again. And he just absolutely blows my mind whenever I'm feeling down about, you know, I can't run as fast as I used to run as far or whatever. I think about Ian and I thinking about, you know, get over yourself and you've had the privilege of traveling to the New York marathon with Ian and the Achilles crew. Tell us a little about you, your work with [Achilles and how it has worked out for you.

Speaker 3: (21:24)
Sorry. It was really special being on that trip with Ian Actually and we forged this incredible friendship from that time and with [inaudible] it science like, you know, cure very much about 'em and you know, it's just a great mate and yeah, I love hanging out with him. Yeah. He inspires me hugely with his capacity to train and I love his determination to, to want to do well on these races. And you know, he's an amazing hand cycle athlete and yeah, really, really awesome to have a minute. [inaudible] And yeah, so I'm going to bet though for Kelly's something I'm really proud of and I've helped quite a lot of different athletes over the years. So just quickly for any viewer listeners who don't know what I can use as about we just help anyone with any kind of disability or barrier to participate in running kind of events.

Speaker 3: (22:20)
So half marathons fund runs marathons and I've gotten through quite a lot of races over the years and yeah, I love, I love being part of that charity in just about to take someone to New York visually appeared go with a spirit just as well gonna help you throw New York marathon learn and also Sydney half marathon. So not helper Tom Idi another inspiring athletes. But yeah, just, you know, like it's a hot connected thing. Like it's amazing to run your own rice lightly. You know, it's incredible to like to be chasing a time or just to be out there running your own race, but to help someone else that the drain. How about lifting and wonderful and you work, you connect it for ever and you know, through the tears and snot at the finish line. But to ne

Speaker 2: (23:21)
You're really emotionally already, your, your in you, he just, some way he was with one of your race lights. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (23:27)
There's a lot of pride through and you know, I, I've done enough races now and you know, qualified as a coach and I think one of my biggest gifts to share in their charity is to get them through to the finish line and a pretty good state in. So I know when they need to back. I know when they need to fuel, I know when they're, you know, they're on their mind struggle and you know, just helping them through those different stages and yeah, it's wonderful to share.

Speaker 2: (23:58)
Absolutely. My [inaudible] and this would be, you know, like this is, this is so grateful, not just with disabled, escalate athletes and not just, wouldn't it be fabulous to have someone like that that got talkies through everything in life, you know?

Speaker 3: (24:12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, if you got a card, she gonna get to your goal. A goal smarter and faster. Yeah. Like everything in life, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2: (24:23)
I mean, you know, we buy and, but honestly, all cost speed. The spent the first 10 years of my ultra marathon career without a coach. Back then there wasn't really anybody that knew too much about ultra marathoning and in the area that I was in and all the mistakes, the injuries, the burnout that the horrific stuff that you did all wrong that you could've saved yourself. And then, you know, Neil Wagstaff, who's now my business partner at running hot coaching, ou know, like he just flipped everything on its head and I had the base performances and you know, we've had, you know, lifelong friendship and now business relationship. Umnd it, it's just like, Oh man, you, you shortcut the process. Why reinvent the wheel? And now in every area of life I search out, and this is one of the selfish reasons I do this podcast, is because I get to meet people like you and, and other amazing people who have done incredible things. And I get to learn, this is my way of learning. As much as there's a selfish aspect of us

Speaker 3: (25:27)
Could learn so much from you too, Lisa.

Speaker 2: (25:33)
Oh, well hiey Yeah. Well let's go there. I'll get you through to an ultramarathon. Oh my God. Fabulous. I'll teach you up on that. Or if you, if you kind of, I'll help you get to the next distance. ,But coming back to the Achilles, you know, like helping other people. It doesn't matter if a disabled people or,uit just, it's just so you, you get out of your own skin, don't you? When you, when I of even in the middle of a running race, I've been doing ultramarathons and middle of deserts or something. And you're just like dying. And you know, sometimes, literally and sometimes just feeling like it. And then you come across somebody who is in deeper trouble than you. Instantly you forget your own suffering and you're there for them. And then you help them through their crisis and youth and the time flies.

Speaker 2: (26:26)
Once again, you're in a flow state because you're actually focused on somebody else. You're outside of your own Missouri. And then you know that saying pain is not optional, but suffering is, and it is like when you, when you understand how to switch, and I'm not saying it's easy, but when you actually on, in your case I'm someone with a visual impairment or in a wheelchair or something and you're helping them fight the battle and you can see how massive that bale is, it makes you feel like, well, what am I complaining about? My sore legs and lackluster on my tire. You know, that it's not as bad as what my friend is going through and it lessens your suffering and it gives you a complete new perspective on life, I think.

Speaker 3: (27:05)
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we would get by in this world, depending on the barriers that we place on ourselves and the not barriers that others put in front of us, the ones that we've put in front of ourselves and I case the isolates who has, you know, real disabilities, they inspire me. So, you know, people, the rest of the world sees it as me helping them. And but actually it just, they end up becoming, you know, my friends and a lot of them are like family to me. Like I care about them that much and yeah. And,

Speaker 3: (27:48)
Yeah. Yeah. They inspire me and I think, look, you know, they can't see, they're not living their barriers and on the way and actually win. You know, it's a, it's a good lesson to share. It's like, you know, what, what barriers are in your way and how are you allowing them to a feature. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (28:07)
It's fantastic. Right? Joy. And I hope you continue to do that. And you know, to people like Ian Walker that just for me, they're my role models, you know, that is, and, and I mean, I don't know if you know my situation, the listeners who listen to my show, not, but my mom had an aneurysm three years ago. So working with her on a day to day basis and your rehabilitation and you know, with of disabilities,

Speaker 3: (28:29)
Oh, it's amazing what you've done.

Speaker 2: (28:31)
Yeah. Like she's just incredible. But it's given me a complete new perspective on, on life and what we're capable of and that replaced with an s selves. And you know, it's not that it's an easy thing to go through and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but by the same token, I'm, I'm always, when I have adversity, I try to find the silver lining, the, the, the lessons, the learnings, what, what, how has this helped me and how has this been an advantage? And this journey has just shown me so, so much about everything like to perspective, you know, like for here, you know, here's me moaning. I can't run, I can't run my a hundred k's anymore or my 200 k's or whatever, you know, why was me my life's over? Because you're the athlete who's always been able to do these sort of things and then you're looking at a person who can't stand.

Speaker 2: (29:23)
We can't take a single step or can't even sit properly. And you sort of just relativizes everything in your life. And it's a really good reminder to have things like that. You know, in your mind, in your mind's eye to just, you know, okay, you're not a, you know, you're never got to meet Usain bolt when you're never going to be pulling a red cliff who case get out there and done stuff anyway, you know, do what you can do. Don't be miserable for the fact that, oh, I used to. And as a coach we get a lot of people. I used to be able to do this and now I can't and I'm trying to get them to let go of the past and just be here now. And once again, we limit ourselves sometimes by the achievements that we've had in the past in turning that around in a hate to go, okay, I've had an accident.

Speaker 2: (30:11)
Like Ian, you know, he, he, he'd gotten to being so good and then he was head again and then he's had to start from scratch again. That just absolutely blows my mind that he would get up again and fight again, you know and knowing how long that, that journey is. So yeah, I think, I think the work that you're doing is wonderful. So Rachel, what w talk to us a little bit about your change in your nutrition side and things like that. What do you, what sort of advice did you get out of doing the book or what learnings have you had on the, on the nutrition side of things?

Speaker 3: (30:49)
Yeah, sorry, I, you qualified to PT level to level five. So there's a really nice underpinning of our new national guidelines and you know, how w how we should be feeling about days. I'm actually personally quiet low carb, healthy fat almost, But I do like some,good ciabatta bread. It was great mornings on top, so I'm not perfectionist. Actually, you know, my book is called balance because I believe in all things in life and balance. Uhort of. I drink coffee, I drink wine, love of beer with a mate. Umnd I eat chocolate. I love chocolate. But you know, I think some 90% of my food is actually a pretty good and you know, it's about putting in an amazing fuel, mating nutrients. Uhut it's got to taste good. So for years and years now, I've been designing, healthy recipients for good magazine.

Speaker 3: (31:47)
And so why I put a city recipes and balance because I often talk about like the hero ingredients and how they feel your body and how the magic, you know, they bring about like Avocados you know, great for beautiful like, you know, eat for vanity as well. And these actually for runners,uyou know, there's some cold smoothies on here and what I hate is smoothies that tastes like swamp water I like food. I love food. I love fruit too much. So if you can, you know, eat or drink anything. , T's got to taste good in the assemble. Awesome. Umo there's a chocolate, a smoothie bowl.

Speaker 2: (32:35)
Oh, very. Oh my God. That looks great

Speaker 3: (32:37)
And so I think it's actually really amazing for your scan there. Sorry. And delicious nutrient dense. Am I saying? But these are great. A by trick drew some here, which is amazing. It's you, all the runners I know. A hugely of victory juice. Yup. Totally bomb into my truth. Yeah. So there's some great,uParse Rum,upar states, the size of smoothies and juices and snacks and stuff like that. And the,,and again, it's just kind of weaving in the stories of, you know, or what to eat and drink to, to feel amazing, but to look amazing. And some of the science behind why,you know, there's some really cool stuff around in fasting right now, you know, long,

Speaker 2: (33:26)
Really important that you, you enjoy your food and it's not just all, you know, horrible. You know, like I do get up in the morning and have this most awful, awful whole litre of vegetable juice, basically with everything from celery to, to lemon juice to, you know, turmeric and stuff. But that, you know, and that gives me my good start to the day, but then I don't want to have all my food like tasting right. And they don't want to. Yeah. We'll enjoy.

Speaker 3: (33:54)
Yeah. So, yeah, I am, yeah. Often is like four ingredients and a smoothie and that we really need nutritious and really good for you. Uand like some of the experts in the book, they really cold, like naughty 11 talks about, you know, banging and the whole orange She's like, you just, you know, being in all the nutrients, that's pretty quick and easy, you know, question. Umnd Sarah Wilson as in my boyfriend, she's fraught. She's the, I quit sugar queen. She's one of the largest, hike true hundred top authors in the world. Uhhe's amazing and she's put out all these incredible, m0 books. Umnd yeah, she talks about, you know, sustainability and my book actually not so much about food but umome awesome sustainability. Heck and but she's about using everything in the food, you know, like he gets celery, use the white butts, use the leaves, like use the whole damn thing, like you've paid for it and it's all nutrition. And so sorry. Yeah, it's kind of changed how I look at food. Umnd quite a few different ways like hearing about where it's coming from, how it feels, my body. Like it affects how you, you think and how you feel. It's like movement, right? Umovement affects and rewires your brain. So you know, you get incredible energy levels and you know, creativity and, and yeah. Your whole sense of how you show up in the world as linked to, you know, how you think, how you feel, how you move, what you eat.

Speaker 2: (35:28)
I'm not, I'm not like, it's really like when you understand the science behind things, you're more likely to do it. I find for me, you know, when I was told years ago to do to meditate and I was like, well, when I run, I meditate. You know, I can't stay in Still, , let's stay in the difference between, use it as a type of flow state and so on. But it's, there's a need for the other part of me, the meditation and why and how that quieting of the mind and checking into the, you know, the parasympathetic nervous system. And when you're running, you're in the sympathetic nervous system so that it's not going to, you know, create that balance. And when you understand a little of a science, I find it's far more interesting to actually do it. Then you get, you get why you're doing it and it gives you that, not just that, well, the your head to do this and you don't know why. I mean, maybe like learning maths as a kid and going, what the hell am I ever gonna have to work out all this stuff? It's a lot of inapplicable stuff to my life. You know? I've got to say that if they explained to me how it applies, if you want to build some, I don't know, a wall, you have to understand all this mess, then I might've gone, oh, okay, I'll get it now while I'm doing this

Speaker 2: (36:37)
U so I think understanding and doing that research is really important. Now. Rachel, we'll, we'll wrap it up in a moment. I just want to, to give you the full from a moment to what is your main message? What do you, what does Rachel stand for? What do you want to get out into the world? What's your big message, and I'm putting on the spot, but what, you know, if there's one, two or three things that you just really desperately wanted to share with the audience today, what would those be?

Speaker 3: (37:04)
I guess love, life and balance and least perfectionism. I thought about progression a, be really kind on yourself. We start hard on ourselves to be perfect. Sorry. There's this kind of process of letting go and like, I'm my mission in life to it as inspire, Kiwis or inspire anyone to, to live healthier and happier and yeah. Like, look, I'd love everyone to read my book. And you know, it's not an ego-driven thing. It was for a long time as a journalist, I really wanted to, to be an author, but when it came to doing my book, it needed to be a whole lot more than that. Like for anyone to actually spend money on my book. I wanted to be incredibly proud of it, but I actually want it to it to authentically, like genuinely help people. So I brought together the best minds who helped change my life to be a lot healthier and happier. I'm more, you know, got way more emotional intelligence than I ever had. I'm still working on that. But yeah, these people in the bark are amazing. And like, even if you read one chapter and it changes your household, happiness is incredible magic in there. So, yeah, during read it, connect with my, I love it.

Speaker 2: (38:30)
Yeah. And that that is so important. Rachel, you know, when you, when, when you know you're in I's office know how much you go through to get a book out. People would not believe how hard it is to get a book out in what you, you know, it cannot be about your ego and you want to sell millions of copies cause that's a dream that's not gonna happen. Generally you know it, you have to be thinking about the individuals that are reading this book and that it's gonna really impact the life. And you are talking for the next what the stuff about that sudden your book. So Rachel, where can people get your book? It's available in the book scores as well as on your website.

Speaker 3: (39:07)
Yeah Sir. It's on my website and spot health.co. Dot. NZ. If you want a signed copy, but it's actually in paper Plas crows or wherever you are in the world. It's on Amazon U K or book deposit. Trey just Google it. You'd be able to find it and it's great. It's a great gift for like an old woman. And the, the beauty of it is it's, yeah, just read one chapter. Like it's not a novel. You don't have to read the whole thing. If you're not into yoga, please don't read the architecture. But if you're into, you know, how the science of the feminist high works which is really fascinating. [inaudible]. Or how to live your base life or how to have, you know, five layers of listening so you can actually listen. Well, that was quite transformative for me. Just read that chapter. And yeah, connect with me on Instagram, which is just my name, Rachel Grunwell.

Speaker 3: (40:02)
Well my Facebook pages is fine. Health inZ age. Uyeah, connect with me. I love, I love those communities. I am really connected. And,uthe last thing I just wanted to, she was,uI did have a massive crisis of confidence,uhalfway through writing the book. It was two year journey and I almost walked away from it. UI was an award winning journalist, but I, yeah, I just had this really tricky time in my life and art. One more skive out. And, you know, you hit the self talk going on. I'm not good enough. Like I'm not, you know, I'm not as good as my friends who are amazing writers. Uand I had a really tricky time and are really vulnerable stage. I almost walked away. I had a publishing deal for Christ's sake. I'm sorry if I what's it so glad you did it. Yeah. And sorry mater it was, it was my biggest dream, right? And Yeah. And it was frightening to do it. And I think you've just gotta be bribed and follow through on your dreams. Don't give up on them. And I'm so glad I didn't. I love my book and so proud of it. And I feel emotional. Every diamond I get messages from riders. Ubut yeah, my message to anyone out there don't ever give up on your dream. And I know you're all about that, Lisa.

Speaker 2: (41:21)
Absolutely. And say, I hope people are listening. Cause you know, you look at Rachel Grandma and you think, wow, beautiful, amazing three children, Super Korea bought Blah retreats and you got, and a lot of were lot of people that's intimidating, right? And they look at it and go, well I couldn't even do that. But when they hear from some people like you saying, you know, I nearly didn't make it with the sport, I struggle with this or I have problems with that and people realize you, like you said at the very beginning of this and can you, I thought people who did health and fitness and sport, just different genes,

Speaker 2: (41:56)
No, all have different things. They did Dweck and I, one of the main themes running through this interview today, which I already picked out again and again and again in your talking was to start small and do something every day towards your goal of think, if I could sum up this whole interview, it would be, there is one, you know, takeaway is break things down and then when it seems overwhelming, just do a tiny little bit today. And you obviously did that with the book and I congratulate you on getting that book out because I know what a mess of journey it is. I'm still in the deep deck going, how the Hell I was, this and that. But it will, and I have enough experience down in there that I will eventually get through. And there's a lot of tears, is a lot of love, so we can tease that goes into these, into these box. So I do encourage you guys to go out there and grab Rachel's Book. You're obviously not going to regret it. Rachel, thank you so much for being on the show today. So go to inspired health.co. Dot. NZ. That's right.

Speaker 3: (42:56)
Yeah. And you can find out all about the broken, like read who the experts are involved on anxiety and personal on depression. Like the experts are really cool when other top happiness researchers in the world. And you know, I did ear guitar when he said he'd be involved. Thank God he couldn't see

Speaker 2: (43:14)
A read them and then try and try and get these people with someone on the podcast. So, you know, thank you very much for this as farm talk today. Rachel, I wish you well in your new business, in Davis, in the, in the work that you're doing and with your Achilles people. My love to you and thank you very much for being on the show today. It's been awesome.

Speaker 3: (43:31)
Thank you so much. You inspire me. So thank you.

Speaker 2: (43:35)
Thanks. Sorr

Speaker 1: (43:36)
That's it This week for pushing the limits. Thanks so much for stopping by and we really hope you enjoyed that interview. If you could do us a favour and please do a rating and review on iTunes, that would help the show immensely. We love getting feedback from our listeners,and it really helps the show get exposure. So if possible do us a really big favour, please make sure you go and do a rating and review in subscribe, and please share this content as well with your networks. If you could do that for us, would be very appreciative and we'll see you again next week. Thank you very much.

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Ryan Lang is only just turned 22 years old and already his ultra marathon bio reads like that of a very accomplished ultra running 40 plus year old.

With the Moab 240mile race and the Tahoe 200 miler and soon to add the Big Foot 200 miler to the list along with a bunch of 100 milers and 50 milers this young man knows a lot about what it takes to take on big scary goals and to have the self belief and mental strength to see these challenges through.

But it wasn't always that way. You see only 4 years ago Ryan was 235 pound overweight unfit teenager who just got sick of being teased about his weight and decided to do something about it so he started running. First one mile at a time then 2 or 3 and within months he was absolutely hooked. Loving the accolades from people telling him how good he looked he powered on into first marathon then ultra marathon and then bigger and bigger.

But he hasn't stopped there besides studying he has also launched a successful hydration pack business www.livegenz.com and uses the lessons learnt from the huge obstacles he has already faced in his races to fuel his persistence when it comes to business.

This guy is a young gun but is neither arrogant nor over confident but a someone with a big heart for others and an amazing future ahead and a lot to teach despite his young age.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Josh komen is an incredible young man.

  At 23-years-old he was set to wear the black singlet, a West Coast athletics star on the rise.

However, in a race to the Commonwealth Games the finish line never came as Josh was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukaemia.

Hitting rock bottom Josh thought about taking his own life before finding inner-strength and deciding to battle the illness.

He chronicles this heartbreaking and painful beyond belief, journey through heart attacks, reoccurring cancer, stem cell transplants and much more. But this is a story of hope and of love and of never giving up. The story of a how a young mans love for his mum saw him through the toughest times and eventually his amazing journey back to health, finding love along the way.

You will be inspired to live your life to the full when you hear this story. His gratitude and love for life is infectious and he will leave you heartwarmed and motivated to live every day.

  You can find out more about Josh at https://joshkomen.com/ where you can also buy his book "The Wind At My Back"

We would like to thank our sponsors

       Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Guy Lawrence is a coach, speaker, wellness advocate, and entrepreneur. He is the founder of Let It In.

A program designed to help people bridge the gap between the life they live and the life they truly want to live. using meditation and the language of neuroscience.

In this conversation Lisa and Guy go deep on meditation, increasing your conciousness, even quantum physics gets a mention.

They talk about altered states of consciousness, and breath work to and much more.

Guy’s passion is to demystify the process and to separate the woo woo from practical applications that help create transformation in one’s life.

You can find out more about Guy, his retreats and programs and podcast at www.guylawrence.com.au

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

View Details

We are all very busy these days and the pace of life sometimes seems insane and it can lead us to feeling overwhelmed when the to do list just gets longer.

In this session you will learn about time blocking and priortising what really matters first and why your health, mental sanity and training must be the first things you put in your calendar.

They talk about working with your energy flow throughout the day and learning to read what times work best for your physical training or your deep intellectual or business based work.

Lisa and Neil discuss the different personality types and how to get the most out of you.

Time management, energy management and not being a slave to guilt and overwhelm

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In today's episode Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff talk about Mental toughness and how to stop those limiting beliefs you picked up somewhere on your journey through life from stopping you achieving those big dreams you have.

No matter how scary or daunting they maybe.

We have all had things happen to us that make us believe certain stories about ourselves.

Things like you were told as a kid you were useless at sport, that you were dumb and would never amount to anything, perhaps you were teased because you were oveweight, you were uncool or any myriad of bullshit beliefs that were imposed upon you. Perhaps you had things in life too easy as a child, were wrapped in cotton wool and were spoiled and now you don't know how to fight and have resilience.

Whatever you limiting beliefs are, whatever the stories you tell yourself about yourself you are the author of your own destiny and can change the record playing in your head.

Change the way you react to the things that happened to you, take back the power over your mind and don't let those things however horrible they were, ruining your future.

In this episode Neil and Lisa talk strategies and ways to break out of these belief patterns.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

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In this episode Lisa does a deep dive with mindset and business scaling expert Joe Trodden on what it takes to succeed and scale in business and how to overcome entrepreneurial and mental roadblocks.

Joe works with entrepreneurial leaders who have got typically been in business 2-5 years, have their product in the marketplace with an operational team, and are now asking themselves ‘what’s next?’.

His comprehensive programmes enable ambitious entrepreneurs to create their next business strategy and accelerate their mindset so they can reach the next level.

He has worked with over 300 entrepreneurs in all sectors and he understands the fears, opportunities and blockers that get people stuck at this stage of business.

If you want clarity, accountability and to be challenged to level up, then get in touch with Joe at www.mindsetexperts.co.uk

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Lisa goes on a bit of a rant in this episode sick to death of people putting other people in boxes, imposing their limiting beliefs on others Lisa encourages you find your tribe, your coaches, mentors and friends who will not pull you down and limit your potential but who see the future you and what you can achieve given guidance and support.

To surround yourself with the rescources, people, coaches, books and courses that will get you there and help you stay focused.

Don't let the bastards get you is an episodes for those struggling with people in their environment who are holding them back and for those with an inner critic that is also putting the brakes on you with limiting beliefs.

It's time to kick some ass, and take no prisoners. One life live it

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners.

All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more.

www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel www.yotube.com/user/lisatamat and come visit us on our facebook group

www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati

You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com

We are also holding another live event on the 31st of August- 1st of September in Havelock North, New Zealand - Its a weekend running seminar

Join us for a weekend of fun, inspiration and education around everything Running

Do you want to run with less pain and injuries, avoid burnout and over training?
Do you want to have a better running technique?
Want to improve your times?
Want to learn how to maximise your training time and train efficiently while getting optimal results?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then this weekend is for you!
Suitable for absolute beginners just starting out on their journey through to elite ultramarathon runners looking to improve their 100 mile times.

So come and meet some great like minded people and hang out with the Running Hot Coaching team and completely change the trajectory of your running career.

What's included
Saturday 31st of August (9am-4pm + Dinner)

Run video analysis and review

Drills and skills for runners

Core and strength training for runners

Flexibility and mobility for runners

Nutrition for runners

Mindset training

Dinner and tales from the trails with Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff (Meal and entertainment included in the package price, drinks extra)

Sunday 1st of September (9am-12:30pm)

Putting it all together into a programme that works for you

2 hours walk/hike/run on Te Mata Peak (suitable for all abilities)

Find out more and register here: https://training.runninghotcoaching.com/how-to-revolutionise-your-running-training?fbclid=IwAR2bFPz6A26CMbzrMhqRyIcdCs9Sgb25mnYv3jTbneouxyyWtzqIx9ZZrKI

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Something a little bit different this episode.

On this show Lisa is interviewed by one of the world's leading Human performance and business mastery Specialists Kerwin Rae for his podcast 'UNSTOPPABLE"

Kerwin is a man on a mission to empower as many people as he can to push the limits of human potential. He specialises in business development, marketing, sales, human behaviour, entrepreneurial psychology and human performance from business to sport.

His has already reached millions of people through his inspiring content, media and events.

In this interview Lisa shares candidly with someone who really gets what it takes to do what she does and who shares her vision and dream of empowering millions to live their lives to the full.

They talk mindset, guiding principles, how they overcome obstacles, what it takes to win, how to you push beyond your fears and achieve and much more.

Make sure you subscribe to Kerwins shoe "Unstoppable" https://www.kerwinrae.com/podcast/

and check out his website at https://www.kerwinrae.com/

Please help us out too by rating and reviewing this show and sharing with your networks so we can impact more lives

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Lisa talks about the importance of "Working in" sessions doing things like yoga, diaphragmatic breathing, stretching, pilates and how they impact your stress hormones and your waistline.

She also talks about menopause and what you can do to help your body transition.

She highly recommends you also listen to this podcast with Dr Lindsey Berkson on menopause, the role of estrogen and much much more.

Dr Lindsey is a previous guest on this show you can find that episode here https://player.fm/series/dr-berksons-best-health-radio-podcast/episode-106-menopause-estrogen-10-issues-10-natural-answers

You can find Dr Berkson's Best Health Radio show at http://pushingthelimits.libsyn.com/podcast/ep28-dr-lindsey-berkson-scientist-hormone-scholar-author

and her website at https://drlindseyberkson.com/

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Ray Zahab is a Canadian Ultra runner/Adventurer/Explorer extraordinaire.

He has completed countless unsupported expeditions and crossings across polar regions and desert.

Most famous for being a part of the Sahara7500km run - Crossing the entire continent with Charlie Engle and Kevin Lin.

But Ray has done so much more.

He is a fellow of the Royal Geographic society, holds the Meritorious Service cross of Canadian and is the founder of not for profit Impossible2possible that enables youth to experience adventures

He is the author of two books "Running for my Life" and "Running to Extremes"

You can find out more about Ray at:

www.rayzahab.com

His guiding company www.kapik1.com

His not for profit www.impossible2possible.com

On instagram @Rayzahab

on Twitter @Rayzahab

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Todays episode with Lisa is a coaching session with her athletes many of whom have just completed big races, ultra marathons, marathons and half marathons.

Their build ups were long and hard and now the race has come and gone and they have successfully completed the mission but many are struggling with the blues, not recovering as quick as they thought and aren't sure how to rebuild. In this episode Lisa shares her insights into what is happening now in the body and mind and how you can help yourself.

This session also goes into race day nutrition and how you can optimise your running and not energy into problems that can derail you because you got your hydration and nutrition wrong

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Paul Whatuira is best known as a hugely successful NRL Athlete,

Kiwi player, 2 x Premiership winner.

He has played for the Warriors, Melbourne, Storm, Parramatta Eels,

West Tigers, Huddersfield Gians.

But the high points of his athletic career were matched with lows in his personal life, his mental health.

A victim of sexual abuse as a child, he realised he had really never dealt with the trauma and when his wife became pregnant with their first child it sent him into a tail spin that lead in 2009 to him being admitted to a psychiatric ward in England after attacking two men. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and heavily medicated, effectively ending his league career.

Paul spent five years heavily medicated and trying to work through his problems but emerged a much stronger man for his experiences.

In his own words Paul says:

"I had to rediscover myself, and build that self-confidence and that reconnection with family and people that are important to you, and having the awareness for living for today," explained the 16-test Kiwis player.

"I genuinely believe that your strength is for living in the now and you have to forgive yourself from the past - you can't bring it back. You have to focus on today and be grateful for the things you have."

"The healing for the things I went through was reconnection with my family, culture and being grateful what I have. Your wellbeing is important - it is important you exercise and do things that make you happy during the day."

In this candid and very real interview he talks about his journey and his work now doing workshops and speaking engagements talking about Mental Health and how he overcame his demons.

You can find Paul at www.internalstrength.nz

We would like to thank our sponsors

Pushing the Limits - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your mind and your life in 2019 check out Lisa' revolutionary new program.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines for the time poor (5 x 30 min a week) made especially for you and your specific goals but also customised meal plans with simple recipes that are easy to follow, complete with shopping lists. Take all the hard work out of thinking what the best exercise is for you and what to eat. All the heavy lifting has been done for you.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to www.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel at Lisa's Youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Hydration is a hot topic right now especially as we head into summer in the Southern Hemisphere.

So just how much should you be drinking and why are electrolytes critical to your mission as well.

Find out all the stats, the products and the tips Lisa recommends to perform at your best whether you are running an ultramarathon through a desert or just wanting to stay healthy for life

We would like to thank our sponsors:

The North Face www.thenorthface.com.au

Purveyors of the best outdoor gear in the world. Never stop exploring

Pushing the Limit - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your life make sure you get on Lisa's VIP pre launch list. She will soon be launching her brand new Ultimate Body Tranformation Programme and will be offering discounts to those on the VIP list.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines made especially for your goals but also customised meal plans that work with your goals and your diet preferences whether you are into being keto, vegetarian, vegan or want just a clean eating system.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to ptl.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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In this crazy busy world we often get overwhelmed with the to do list, with the amount of distractions in our lives, with the workload we have to get through and finding time to train and time to priortise family and friends can be tough.

If the week or day is running you instead of the other way around then listen in to Lisa talking about how to plan out your week for maximum achievement without burning out or feeling overwhelmed.

We would like to thank our sponsors:

The North Face www.thenorthface.com.au

Purveyors of the best outdoor gear in the world. Never stop exploring

Pushing the Limit - Ultimate Body Transformation programme.

If you want to transform your body, transform your life make sure you get on Lisa's VIP pre launch list. She will soon be launching her brand new Ultimate Body Tranformation Programme and will be offering discounts to those on the VIP list.

The Programme provides not only customised workout routines made especially for your goals but also customised meal plans that work with your goals and your diet preferences whether you are into being keto, vegetarian, vegan or want just a clean eating system.

This programme takes all the guess work out of your training and your eating.

Head over to ptl.lisatamati.com

Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati

If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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Runners often neglect the obvious, that they need a strong musculoskeletal system and a strong nervous system in order to withstand the rigours of the miles they are running. When you understand run specific strength training and what types of training to do when in the cycle of your periodised training programme you can get huge gains in your speed, form, posture, coordination and technique If you want to run faster, longer and be stronger without burnout and injuries then check out and TRY our Running Club for FREE on a 7 day FREE TRIAL Complete holistic running programmes for distances from 5km to ultramarathon and for beginners to advanced runners. All include Run training sessions, mobility workouts daily, strength workouts specific for runners, nutrition guidance and mindset help Plus injury prevention series, foundational plans, running drill series and a huge library of videos, articles, podcasts, clean eating recipes and more. www.runninghotcoaching.com/info and don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel and come visit us on our facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/lisatamati The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional

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This is the tale of a 49 year old Australian woman who in the space of few short years went from being a totally unfit, overweight smoker who didn't really even think about running or fitness to having a life defining moment at a doctors one day and changing her life. Losing a huge amount of weight, stopping smoking, starting walking and then running and then running further then running some more.

This is a story of an endurance adventure that ultimately challenged Tania both physically and mentally. Along with Robert, her partner who supported her as her one and only crew, she embarked on the mammoth task of running the 440km Hume and Hovell Track.

Beginning at Cooma Cottage in Yass, the track follows the trails discovered by explorers Hamilton Hume and William Hovell in the south east of NSW, Australia. It traverses both rugged and beautiful countryside while following a mix of public roads, fire trails, purpose built single track and over 100 footbridges and finishes at the Hovell Tree at Albury.

The track is without a doubt one of New South Wales’ best kept secrets. After 18 months of planning, Tania realised her dream of completing the track when she finished the entire journey at the Hovell Tree in Albury at around 8:30pm on October 2.

But this journey wasn't just a physical one but a journey to health and strength, to confidence and resilience and to much soul searching in the aftermath.

Be inspired and encouraged from this everyday hero story.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/info

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

For more information go to: Mindset Academy

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The number one thing that stops us from taking on massive challenges and chasing our dreams is the fear of failure. The "What if" machine goes into overdrive and we get in our own way, stop our chances of success before we even begin.

In this episode Lisa discusses this fear and how to stop it robbing you of your true destiny, from reaching your true potential and achieving your dreams.

She also talks about experiencing resistance and how not to give up in the middle of the storm because the calm, the breakthroughs may be just around the corner.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/info

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

For more information go to: Mindset Academy

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In this episodes Running Hot Coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff discuss the importance of cadence, how you can increase your cadence and why you should care.

What time of your season you should be focusing on your cadence and how hard and fast the 180 steps per min rule is or not.

They discuss form drills and technique and why you should have a off season time during the year when you can focus on these things while doing lower mileage and how the brain works in regards to reprogramming yourself.

They also discuss the long runs in your programmes and why it perhaps isn't as high as you might think it should be. The benefits of back to back training and the importance of the strength and mobility parts of the training pus

Links mentioned in the podcast: Drills Running Drills Playlist Running Hot Club Information: Information We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/info

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

For more information go to: Mindset Academy

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Long slow distance high mileage models vs high quality lower mileage holistic programmes.

Lisa discusses the pros and cons. Why the traditional high mileage model works to a point and what adaptations it brings but why it leads to a high incidence of injury. Over 90% of marathon runners are injured every year.

She discusses why this model is especially good for young athletes but why it brings an increasing amount of problems as the miles and the years add up and why you need a holistic approach your training

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

The old traditional high mileage models, doing predominantly long slow training sessions work to a point but often lead to a high incidence of injury, in fact over 90% of all marathon runners are injured every year according to studies. Injuries to knees rate high as do calf problems achilles, plantar fasciitis and more so is there a more effective way to train.

Why does it work when you are young doing this high mileage system but often lead to problems as the miles and years pile up and is there a better way.

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Alex Charfen is one of my greatest teachers and mentors, his systems and processes for scaling and growing business are second to none.

Alex is the founder of Charfen.com a coaching and consulting business that helps takes businesses from start up to to billion dollar enterprises.

He is the author of the "The Entrepreneurial Personality type"

https://www.charfen.com/free-ebook/

Podcaster at the "Momentum Podcast"

Alex believes Every day, new members of this tribe of "Entrepreneurs" are born with a unique set of gifts and issues that will, for better or worse, drive them for all of their lives. They will chase momentum, and even long for it. They will have a hard time fitting into the
systems built for everyone else. And, in the end,
if they survive and are able to stay un-medicated and
un-incarcerated, they will likely change the world.

They’ve locked themselves in rooms and invented the light bulb but only after ten thousand failed tries; they have launched rockets into space and landed them safely, but only after explosions and scrubbed missions; they’ve built and lost great empires; and sadly, some, perhaps most, have spent their lives as misunderstood and out of step dreamers with unhappy endings.

Alex has studied greatness for decades and here is what he has found: All of the notable entrepreneurs down through history have a great deal in common with each other, and, quite frankly, very little in common with the rest of the world. They share The Entrepreneurial Personality Type (EPT) with all of its quirks and idiosyncrasies. They are a restless bunch with an intrinsic need to move and build and strive. His own remarkable entrepreneurial journey reflects that.

He is also the author of the Billionaire Code. https://billionairecode.com/know-the-code

A framework and structure that helps show business owners where they are on the business growth ladder and what exactly they need to focus on at each level.C

Alex has known from a young age that he was different, and this led him on a path to studying the world’s greatest entrepreneurs to find out how they achieved so much in their lives. His research led to founding the Entrepreneurial Personality Type (EPT) and helping tens of thousands of 6, 7, and 8-figure entrepreneurs use this information to grow and scale their business while building maximum sustainable momentum. From consulting for billionaires, the Fortune 500 and some of the most successful people in the world.  Alex is the co-founder and CEO of CHARFEN, empowering entrepreneurs to grow and scale businesses and make their greatest contribution. An in-demand thought leader on business strategy and entrepreneurship, he regularly appears in major media outlets such as MSNBC, CNBC, FOX News, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Investor’s Business Daily to provide his unique views and insights.      Alex is married to Cadey and has two daughters Reagan and Kennedy and they live in Austin Texas

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Stefan Sillner is an extremely successful entrepreneur and business executive in his role with the fitness equipment company giant Hammer AG he has been:

 Responsible for building an 8-figure
international fitness equipment business from
scratch for an established German company
with business partnerships in more than 50
countries

 Responsible for creating a successful semi-
commercial line for hotels and corporate gyms

and building up an international distribution
network
 Responsible manager for the Swiss HAMMER
SPORT AG subsidiary including set up,
recruitment and management of the two most
profitable HAMMER stores in Zurich and
Geneva, Switzerland.
 Responsible for recruiting and leading a
successful team of 11 sales management
employees in 3 different countries.

Stefan has a master in business and is also the author of the book "Ten powerful habits for success" which is available on amazon here

https://www.amazon.com/Success-Habits-Powerful-Effective-Strategies-ebook/dp/B06W2LM8J8/

Stefan Sillner offers insight and experience about how implementing certain habits have helped to change his life and create more success. His goal is to share his knowledge in order to inspire as many people as possible on achieving more personal success and fulfilment.

He is also Co-Founder of www.ultra-living.com a business created with his wife Alexandra focussing on personal training for Women in Munich+Vancouver
and online fitness & lifestyle blog and coaching.

You can connect with Stefan at the following links:

Hammer website: www.hammer-sport.com Stefan's wife's training business - Alexandra Sillner www.ultra-living.com Alexandra's instagram www.instagram.com/ally.sillner Stefan's instagram www.instagram.com/stefansillner Linkedin Profile: www.linkedin.com/in/stefan-sillner-281b2012/ We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to: https://courses.lisatamati.co.nz

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

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In this podcast Lisa discusses how to develop a good team culture and how important your state of being, your values and your consistency is in helping the team achieve it's goals.

She discusses why setting totally unrealistic goals just demotivates and teaches a team to fail.

Why goals should stretch and challenge a team but be doable.

She discusses the leaders emotional state and how influential this is on the team around them and how the culture in a company or a sports teams is always a reflection of the leadership.

If your team isn't performing, look to yourself first.

She discusses the 5 different levels of being.

  1. Being Present

  2. On Alert

  3. Loaded state - things are go pear shaped

  4. Fight or flight state

  5. Total overwhelm and full on panic.

If you turn up in any level except level 1 your team will likely be on the next step up.

So reflect on how you are turning up.

She looks at the importance of consistency, openess, transparency, showing vulnerability, understanding your own strengths and weaknesses.

These things lead to trust and higher performance.

The team will always be looking to you the leader for guidance.

The importance of giving your teams dreams wings. Walk beside your team. Teaching self confidence and self belief.

Breaking big goals down into achievable chunks.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to https://goto.runninghotcoaching.com/running

Lisa's own Mindset Academy - The Path of an Athlete. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to: https://courses.lisatamati.co.nz

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

World Champion Motorcycle Racer Wayne Gardner has just released a brand new movie "Wayne" about his crazy life and reaching the pinnacle of Motorcycle Racing.

The film captures the life and career of the Aussie, who went from owning a $5 motorbike in Wollongong, Australia, to winning the 1987 500cc World Championship with wife Donna Forbes by his side.

I had the privilege of being invited to meet and have an interview with Wayne to discuss sports psychology and the importance of the mental game when it comes to winning in sport.

In this episode I share some of Waynes' and my own insights into this fascinating and underrated area of work and why every athlete should be focussing more on his or her mental game to get the edge over the competition.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

Lisa answers questions from the Trail Running community.

All about her career, her training philosophies and your coaching systems.

Tons of tips and advice on long distance running, fitness and health as well advice on developing a strong mindset for success in sport and life

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

Do you feel like you are hitting your head against the brick wall sometimes, training hard and eating right and still putting on weight or getting unfitter?

Lisa Tamati Ultra Endurance Athlete and Neil Wagstaff Exercise Scientist from Running Hot Coaching explain why you might be struggling to get the same results as the person next to you even though you are training and eating the same.

Find out what other elements are in play in regards to your fitness and health results and what you can do to improve your performance and health.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

In this episode Lisa is coaching someone who plans on undertaking an a mammoth ultra endurance run through central Australia 1555km.
She shares her experiences running such extreme distances, what is involved in the planning, fundraising, marketing, logistics, safety, training and preparations, the mistakes she made and much more.
This is not just an episode for extreme athletes but for anyone contemplating on massive projects, challenges or undertakings and for those who want to push their limits in their career, their sport, their lives.

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

Dr. Sherr believes that Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT) -- the administration of 100% oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure -- is one of the most powerful ways to decreasing inflammation, accelerate wound healing, and optimise both physical and mental performance.

He is one of the few HBOT providers in the USA that creates personalised treatment plans for patients that include cutting edge & dynamic HBOT protocols, adjunctive technologies, laboratory testing, and nutritional interventions.

Dr. Sherr is the Director of Integrative Hyperbaric Medicine and Health Optimization at Hyperbaric Medical Solutions, in addition to operating his own independent hyperbaric consultation practice and performing in-person consultations in the San Francisco Bay Area (where he lives). Dr. Sherr aims to create access and educate all those who may benefit from HBOT through telemedicine consulting, advocacy, and education practice worldwide.

I wanted to share this episode because hyperbaric was the therapy that I credit with being the major component in my mother, Isobel's rehabilitation after a devastating brain injury over two years ago.

Isobel was left with hardly any higher funcitoning, the brain damage was so severe she was unable to control her body in any meaningful fashion, had virtually no memory, no speech and was let in the . stage of a toddler at the age of 74.

But after three months in hospital and after months studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy and searching for somewhere to get her access to it I was lucky enough to find a chamber to use. Wha followed was in my opinion nothing short of miraculous. and now after thousands of hours of training, combined with supplemetation and diet changes and over 170 hyperbaric sessions later. Mum is completely normal again, can walk, read, write, do all her normal daily duties and is living a full life again, her doctor saying is a one in a million comeback story.

This is why I was so excited to get one of the worlds leading experts on this therapy to speak on my podcast and to explain much lcearer and better just what the mechanisms of HBOT are and the benefits, limitations and research going into this area of medicine.

So make sure you save this episode and share it as far and as wide as possible.

The fact that I was able to get access to one of the world's top experts in this fields is just amazing and I want to make sure that all who need to hear this information get access to it and to hypebaric oxygen therapy.

I am also happy to have people contact me direct with questions.

lisa@lisatamati.co.nz

Dr Sherr can be contacted for online consultations at Dr Scott Sherrs website

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

There’s a darkness in our world. 1 billion people live in extreme poverty.
It’s made darker by the fact that in this same world, extreme consumerism exists.
Each day as consumers, we give billions of dollars to the world’s largest multinationals for everyday products.
Thankyou the social enterprise that is taking not only Australia but now NZ by storm, thinks it’s time to bring the light.

What began as an impossible idea, dreamed up by Daniel Flynn, his best mate Jarryd, and girlfriend (now wife) Justine, is now backed by a passionate team of 50, and a consumer movement of thousands.
‘Consumer movement’ could sound like a fluffy, throw-away phrase.

But picture this. For 5 years, the major supermarkets in Australia had said no to Thankyou. Then one day they launched this video and thousands of people began petitioning to the supermarkets. Two LEGENDARY helicopter pilots, Peter and Geoff, donated their time to fly these signs above the head offices of those two supermarkets and in record-breaking time, both said yes.

Products hit the shelves, including their hand wash that has since become number one in the category. You might have seen it at your fave brunch spot.
With the idea working in Australia, they launched a book titled “Chapter One” to crowdfund the launch of Thankyou in New Zealand and beyond.

Within two hours of this launch video, they had raised $360,000, with now over $1.9 million raised and counting. The book is sold at a pay what you want price with people paying from $0.05 (don’t be that guy) to $50,000 for a copy. In airport bookstores it was second to only the Harry Potter book launch. And it’s only the first chapter.

We discuss this revolutionary new business model and take a peek at the visionary powerhouse behind the man and this company.

With over $5.5 million already donated to causes aimed at ending global poverty in over 16 countries, and their story is really only just beginning. They have beaten all the odds, taken on the biggest multinationals and created a consumer movement that is literally impacting millions.

And now we want to challenge you to get onboard and get in behind the launch by buying their everyday products at your local supermarket and by telling two friends about it, gifting them a product and asking them to do the same. Check out www.telltwo.co.nz for details.

For more on thankyou go to https://thankyou.co/

We would like to thank our sponsors

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

View Details

Comedian Cal Wilson talks about working in standup, being a woman (don't call her a female) in a male dominated industry and the joys of touring. Both Lisa and Cal give insight into pushing the limits in their respective fields and the joys and challenges of performing on stage.

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

In this episode Lisa implores us not to compare ourselves with what we see on social media or with other's competing in the same fields. Focus instead on comparing yourself with yourself - to see where you are progressing.

If you would like to find out more about epigenetics email lisa on lisa@lisatamati.co.nz

For access to the free e-course visit www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

She is NOT a doctor, nutritionist, shrink or wellness coach. No qualifications in the wellness industry. However, she seems to have gained a Master’s Degree in WELLNESS earned out of Experiencing the ST BITS of life. Having been diagnosed with cancer twice Di now shares her story + the Gold** that has come out of her journey.

Spoiler Alert, She didn’t die!

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

Show Notes –

Isobel had an aneurysm and a massive stroke two and a half years ago and was critical for weeks and was not expected to survive.

Due to a medical blunder by the receiving Doctor in the emergency ward it took 18 hours to get into surgery.

Waited 6 hours in the emergency department waiting room as the doctor believed she had a migraine. Got a paramedic friend to help her. Finally got a CT Scan – and saw that there was massive bleeding on the brain. Then went to Wellington Hospital for the surgery. Had a stent put into her brain to drain the blood. Also put a coil into the brain to stop the bleeding. Spent the next month in and out of ICU fighting for her life. Having brain spasms and losing consciousness. Spent three months in hospital in total. One month in Wellington and two months in New Plymouth.

After pushing from Lisa she was tested and diagnosed with severe sleep apnoea and put on oxygen. Lisa started studying hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Isobel finds it astounding to hear the whole story as she was unconscious and unaware of a lot of it.

She had no memory, she couldn’t speak, she couldn’t control any functions in her body.

Her first memory was inside the hyperbaric oxygen chamber. Took her down to 1 ½ atmospheres which is ideal for brain injury. Given 100% medical grade oxygen which hyper oxygenates the body. You can take up to 7 time the normal amount of oxygen. Also permeates the blood brain barrier faster.

Isobel said that it is isn’t painful but you do have to be very patient. She is able to take her iPad in with her and she listens to podcasts.

Life is now back to complete normal most of the time. But there are still some areas where she struggles. She can do everything but it takes twice of long and there is a lot of effort required.

She can walk slowly for a 1 km now. She has had to relearn all the normal movement patterns.

Because of her age doctors were not confident she would be able to be fully rehabilitated.

One of the keys to that process of having parallel bars. They were gifted to them by a family friend. Spend a good hour on the bars per day.

Her biggest success to date is that she got her drivers licence back. Lisa felt it was important that Isobel could feel in control of own destine which driving would give her. Still working towards full independence but definitely working towards that. Her goal is to be healthier than she was before.

Goes to the gym five days a week. Lifting weights. You lose muscle mass and bone density because of the lack of movement at first. She has just had a bone density test and she is off the scales high.

It is important when you are older to face challenges. Isobel says she needed someone to help to push her. She had to be relentless in her training because that is the only way back. When you let things go it is a long way back. To take away the goals and achievements it to die. We need to feel like we are going forward. Let’s make the most out of every day. It is the discipline of today that helps us to be stronger tomorrow.

Rest and recovery is important too but in a rhythm with working out.

Never give up. You don’t know how far you can go.

A few months into her recovery she crewed with Lisa when she ran across the North Island with her husband and business partner to raise money for a friend’s charity. That friend, who has previously appeared on the podcast, died in an accident during a half marathon.

Lisa is currently writing a book about her Mum’s recovery.

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

Show Notes – Cushla Young

Lisa and Cushla met on one of Lisa’s running retreats.

Started running half marathons 7 – 8 year ago. Had run three by the time she met Lisa. She went to one of Lisa’s seminars and was really inspired. She booked a weekend retreat and then helped out on the next retreat. At that point she started doing full marathons.

Talk about not being natural athletes. Also talk about identifying yourself as “a runner.” It wasn’t about speed, or being at the front of the pack, it was about running and what it did for her outlook on life.

Lisa tells the story of when both Cushla and Lisa’s Mums were in the same hospital at the same time. Cushla and her husband turned up with a big bowl and a plan, and kindly washed Lisa’s Mum’s hair. It was a very touching moment of compassion and friendship.

A story of Carpe Diem – seize the day.

Cushla and her husband Richard both had good jobs, loved their lives in New Plymouth and weren’t thinking about any big change. Their friends called up from Tonga and suggested they pack up their dog and come on over in order to manage their second resort. It took a month to make up their minds and then Cushla took a year’s sabbatical from her teaching career.

Cushla and Lisa both refer to their fertility issues. When you don’t have kids you have got to make your own lives; you have to be a bit more active in finding joy in life.

Lisa asks how the reality compares to the fantasy we all have of running away to a tropical island.

12 bungalows and a restaurant at the resort. It is very isolated being based on one of the outlying islands. 18 x 1 kilometres in size. Their local town has one shop – a cross between a $2 shop and a bad dairy. There are long hours and not many days off. Most of the food comes via ship from New Zealand or the main island of Tonga so they have to plan their menus and supplies two months in advance. There is some fresh fruit available. Most people in the island grow food for themselves not for supplying others. When things break you can’t get them fixed quickly and that puts pressure on things. The only water is rain water supply so you have to preserve this.

They have fun with the guests. Often they arrive quite stressed and it is fascinating to watch people begin to relax over the first few days.

Humpback whale season starts mid July. They travel from Antarctica to give birth and take care of their babies. They send out eight boats a day with only four people in the water at any one time. The whales are very curious. It takes your breath away. Whales have a deep mindful eye. Each whale pod has a song and it changes slightly each season.

Cushla is not a natural outdoorsy adventurous person. The first time she went swimming with the whales she had a Go Pro with her. She ended up recording a sound track of her hyperventilating. Then she stopped breathing for about two minutes when the whales turned up.

They have to steal moments in the day to go and enjoy the island. Some days are easier to do that than others.

She has realised that this year is about chilling out and just enjoying the experience. She learned to change her mindset and realise that she doesn’t have to be the best resort manager the world has ever seen.

Tells the story of the two wolves inside us. The bad wolf and the good wolf are always fighting inside. Which wolf wins? The one that you feed. You still have bad days – even if you live in paradise; you’re just a bit hotter. Realise you don’t have to get tangled up in the things that don’t really matter. Learning to focus on the joy of being on the island, of meeting people from all over the world, cooking an amazing meal, spending time with her husband.

Talks about struggling a little without the large support network that she has back home in New Zealand. She talks about having to help herself through hard times.

Lisa talks about how nature helps to ground her and to cope when times get hard.

Cushla walks on the beach with her dog and listens to audible books and podcasts. Reconnecting with herself.

Always remember you are always the same person no matter where you are. Every day you choose what you focus on and same days this can be hard. Forgive yourself when you have those days that just don’t work out like you thought it would. Be kind to yourself. Don’t expect yourself to be superwoman.

Take the opportunities that do come.

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

Running as Therapy – Show Notes

Why running is cheaper than therapy.

Why do you do all this long-distance running?

For me running is so much more than just a sport, a way to keep fit. It is a way of life. It is what I have used for my therapy. It has literally saved my life.

Why running is so powerful as a means of mental health. Movement in nature is the key point. You find out so much about who you are and what you are capable of. It helps you overcome the chatter that you have going on constantly in your brain. When I go running that chatter slows down. It takes about 20 minutes to get rid of the day’s grind then once you start to connect with your body and nature, your mind and your processes start to clear. It is a wonderful time for reflection. It is a very powerful mechanism to help find balance.

We are living in a very artificial environment. This is not how our ancestors lived. We are disconnected from our true nature.

How blue light is affecting us.

Inundated with messages from people all around the world who are struggling with mental health issues and massive challenges. It is a privilege to hear these stories and try to help them. I have tried to share with people the honest journey that I go through; the highs, the lows, the challenges. I think people are hungering for real human connection.

With our run training we start with the mindset, the motivation and helping them with their mental struggles before we get onto the nuts and bolts of running. We can help them on a much deeper level.

Wanted to share the back story and why I say running helped save my life. In my early 20s I was in an abusing controlling relationship. I was in a constant state of being pushed beyond my limits physically and being constantly told that I was useless. Went from being an equal partnership to being controlled completely. My mindset was all about survival.

Talks about her horrendous journey across the Libyan desert in which her relationship unravelled. It took a long time to recover physically but the mental scars left her a broken person for a long long time. It took running to put her back together.

The Marathon de Sables. Surrounded by positive people that she hadn’t been for years. She found like minded wonderful crazy people. She felt encourages and confident. Did really well in the race and then wanted more and more. I wasn’t as useless as I had been told. Running became my therapy and hence the title of the podcast. What followed was 25 years of mad adventures.

Had grown up in a family that valued mental and physical toughness. Weakness was not tolerated. Took me years to find my way back. Running has given me so much. I learned so much about what I am capable of. I can overcome my fears. I learned team work, I learned how to market myself, to speak, business, leading with a vision.

Having good daily ways of coping and de-pressurising ourselves.

If you are facing mental health issues, if you are in a difficult relationship etc, you are not alone. There are lots of people going through a lot of things and finding strength from each other and in telling our stories. I hope this gives you the courage to feel not alone and that you can find a way through. I encourage you to take up an outdoor sport. Find your peace with yourself and get back on the road to recovery. Reach out to people who can help you. Find like-minded people.

All my life I’ve felt like a fish out of water in the workforce. I cannot stand to be in an office environment. I felt like it was all my fault because I wasn’t getting ahead in my career. But I was always an entrepreneur. I want to be independent, I don’t fit in anyone else’s square. I like to say I am unemployable. It doesn’t mean we are lazy, or dumb, or there is something wrong with us. It just means that we haven’t found our tribe yet.

Find your tribe who will help you be the best version of you that you can be.

Never, ever, give up.

Fail, fail fast and keep going.

Never stop.

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

View Details

Ever since Alani was a little girl she always knew she was born to serve others and protect life. That desire led to a life in the United States military.

She became a special agent working for the Air Force and started her career in Japan working a lot of drug cases. She started a country wide programme to prevent the sexual abuse of children via the Internet. From there she deployed to the Middle East where she worked for Special Forces to chase terrorists. Then she went to the headquarters in Quantico where she over saw counter intelligence. She returned to the Middle East doing counter intelligence / counter terrorism work and then she became a senior bodyguard to a senior government official.

Alani talks about pushing the limits in her professional life and how she maintained her resilience throughout.

We would like to thank our show sponsors

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

View Details

How to prevent and treat the most common running injuries - with Ex Pro Ultra Endurance Lisa Tamati & and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff from Running Hot Coaching.

Knees, Achilles, plantar fascitis, hip and lower back problems are all extremely common injuries amongst runners so what do you do about them when they arise and more importantly how can avoid them altogether.

For more on our holistic training approach using the five pillars of run training system please download our free ecourse at www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success and totally revolutionise your running. Run faster, further with less pain and injuries.

We would like to thank our show sponsors The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

How to taper for that big race you have coming up. What to do if you have missed some of your long training runs?

How to prepare yourself mentally for the battle ahead and how to stop the fear monsters from getting you in this phase, telling you you are getting unfit, putting on weight and so on.

It's just the brain trying to guilt you out so don't listen to it and stick to the plan.

Why the taper is crucial and why you should do extra mobility workouts and mental preparation with the likes of meditation and visualisation exercises. Asking yourself about the "Why". What you motivation is for this event and what is the result or purpose of this.

We would like to thank our show sponsors The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

View Details

Maree Leith is a mother of 6 but three of her beloved children died just after birth. She fought through years of grief and depression and lost her own health along away before fighting back and building her fitness back. Starting off by running one power pole at a time and slowly building her way up to half then full marathons then ultramarathon. Losing 40kg along the way.

The incredible strength of this woman is phenomenal, what she suffered unbearable but she fought on and is now inspiring other women to take up running through her group Girls Who Run NZ.

http://www.girlswhorunnz.co.nz/

We would like to thank our show sponsors The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Paul was an extreme rock climber and mountaineer from the UK. His adventures took him from Europe to the Himalayas, the Karakoram to Patagonia, Baffin Island to Australia On Friday the 13th of February 1998 a TV-sized boulder falling from 25 meters inflicted such terrible head injuries that doctors thought he might never walk or even speak again.

Being in hospital for a year gave Paul the impetus to write his second book: The Totem Pole in 2000. This narrative about his personal journey through hemiplegia also won the Boardman/Tasker prize and the Banff Mountain Book Festival Grand Prize and was translated into four languages. Nominated for the Banff Prize, The Longest Climb followed in 2005.

He has continued to lead a challenging life, climbing Kilimanjaro, caving, sea kayaking, river rafting and, in 2009, lead rock climbing again. Paul rode a recumbent trike through Tibet to Mount Everest and, in 2016 he finally climbed the Totem Pole, 18 years after his accident. His latest journey was the 2152 km World Expeditions Lowest to Highest Expedition.

   Paul has spent his time since the accident in contemplation of the hemiplegia which has robbed his right side of movement and continues to play tricks with his speech and memory. He sees the accident as a precious gift and describes it as the best thing that has ever happened to him. He is a passionate believer that without the mountains he climbed, and moreso the Totem Pole accident, he would not have learnt some crucial life lessons.

Those lessons learned in the mountains got him through a harrowing injury, and the painfully slow recovery process has engendered a life lived in the moment.

"I use them still, repeatedly, each day of my second, radically different life."

When he won the Boardman/Tasker Award for mountain literature in 1997, with his book Deep Play, he spent the prize money on a world climbing tour that found him in Tasmania climbing a slender sea stack known as The Totem Pole. It was here that all he had known before was turned on its head. We would like to thank our show sponsors  **The North Face -**

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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High flying entrepreneur Dave Woodward is a proven business expert with a demonstrated history of growing businesses in multiple industries. He is the Chief Business Development Officer of Click Funnels the fastest growing SAAS company in the world.

In addition Dave is also the Owner and President of Monopolize Inc.; a marketing agency whose focus has been helping to grow businesses in Insurance, Investments, Mortgage and Real Estate with a focus on internet marketing and growth expansion he is highly skilled in Marketing, Advertising, Sales, Strategic Planning, and Business Development and has achieved great successes with his business.

Dave has also got a Masters in Exercise Physiology and knows the benefits the discipline of sport brings to the world of business and entrepreneurship.

We would like to thank our show sponsors The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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At 41 - with two teenagers and a contentedly unadventurous life - Heather Hawkins made a doctor's appointment. Diagnosed with stage one ovarian cancer, within nine days she had surgery to remove an 18cm tumour, and a full hysterectomy. Instead of chemotherapy, she chose a non-invasive surveillance treatment.
The experience reignited Heather's adventurous and invincible spirit. At 47 she pulled on an old pair of shorts and runners and struggled to the end of a 4km mothers' day fun run with her kids. Five years later she has 17 marathons and 3 ultra marathons under her belt, including the North Pole Marathon and the extraordinary World Marathon Challenge - a gruelling seven marathons in seven days on seven continents. She topped that off by trekking 1700km in the thin air of Nepal's Great Himalaya Trail.
And she's only just getting started ...

'Heather's courage is immeasurable. She has unstoppable conviction and an energy that inspires and amazes me' - Robert de Castella - AO MBE, Australian Former World champion Marathon Runner In this interview Lisa digs deep beyond the glib facts of Heather's adventures to find out what makes this lady tick, how she managed within just 5 years to go from being totally sedentary to a full on extreme ultra runner, to run in all four corners of the world. We would like to thank our show sponsors The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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As an elite athlete, health, performance and survival specialist, Ben Logan's ultimate purpose is teaching men the art of performance and survival then translating those skills and mindset strategies across into their chosen profession.

When he’s not in the backcountry mountains of Wanaka training with his Alaskan Malamute, Maska, you can usually find him testing new research on human optimisation, survival training and exploring with his family the beautiful region of Wanaka that he calls home. He has worked and trained with some of the world's best athletes and military personnel.

For more information on Ben and his mens programmes and expeditions go to www.loganlore.co.nz

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

.

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Ian Walker was an avid Football fan , referee and coach but in early December 2006 his life took an unexpected turn. Until then he was running marathons and was a nationally ranked football (soccer), referee.

On that Wednesday morning he got on his road cycle and went for a ride during which he cycled head first into the rear of a truck and trailer resulting in me suffering a spinal cord injury at T3/4 (mid thoracic) level and requiring a wheelchair for mobility.

This was a huge body blow, being no longer able to use his legs. However life must and does go on and he soon realised that this was his new normal and it was better for me to get on with life.

The issue for him was to replace my running with another activity.

He discovered handcycling and fell in love with it as it enables him to continue with his love of long distance physical exertions.

Since then he has successfully completed the TCS New York City Marathon and Buller Gorge Marathon twice each and the ASB Christchurch City Marathon once.
He now lives his life to the following creed ‘do not let what you cannot do stop you from doing what you can’. This is, he believes, a mindset that all can adopt as life is what you make it.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

The North Face -

Premier Outdoor equipment specialists who have been kitting out adventurers around the world for the past 50 years.

Specialists in trail running gear - Check out their full range at www.thenorthface.co.nz

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

.

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Charlie Engles is definitely one of my all time great heroes. His life has not been without it's dramas and failures but he is undoubtedly one of the strongest human beings of our times in mind and body.

He is one of the most accomplished ultramarathon runners in the world and author of the riveting memoir Running Man. Engle has a track record of winning or placing in many of the toughest endurance foot races across the globe. He has raced in jungles, summited high ranging mountains and volcanoes, and traversed large expanses of deserts through sand storms. Among his most notable races in the United States is the Badwater Ultramarathon which he has run 7 times placing usually in the top 5.

Beginning in the 1990s into the early 2000s, Engle competed in the Eco-Challenge series put on by Mark Burnett (the creator of the wildly popular CBS television series, Survivor). The Eco-Challenge took Engle to Borneo, New Zealand, and Vietnam. The list of Engle's international races is long, but he is most well known for running across the Sahara Desert, from coast to coast, in 2007. Engle's historic and record setting journey was documented in the film Running the Sahara, narrated by Matt Damon. He was joined by two other runners: Ray Zahab of Canada and Kevin Lin of Taiwan. This transcontinental run through deep sand and politically unstable countries remains one of the premier accomplishments in the ultrarunning sport. The runners completed over 4,500 miles, averaging over two marathons per day, for 111 consecutive days.

Engle's motivation to run and tackle adventure to such extreme lengths stems from his battle with addiction to drugs and alcohol. Sober since July 23, 1992, he has credited a large part of his sobriety to the purposeful devotion and emotional release he experiences while running.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Chris Desmond is a Physiotherapist with a post grad certificate in rehabilitation and a masters in Management and works for TBI Health as a clinic Manager

He has worked as a physiotherapist for over a decade but he has also been an athlete for the majority of his life.

He has dabbled in many sports including a fair amount of running, everything from the 100m all the way up to his first ultra-marathon last year.

He is super enthusiastic about strategically getting out of his comfort zone and the benefits that come along with that.

He hosts his own podcast called "Uncomfortable is OK" which explores the science , the stories, and the strategies of getting out of your comfort zone, so you can find where the magic happens.

In this interview he dives deep on common injuries for athletes and how to avoid these and what to do when they happen.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

.

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Kate Sanderson, is a rather, shy, introverted Australian girl, who loved nothing more than to run ultramarathons but one particular ultramarathon in the Kimberleys in Western Australia was to change her life forever.

Kate shares her horrifying story of seeing a wall of fire coming towards her and a small group of other runners including the famous Turia Pitt as they ran through a gorge,

Each runner tried a different way to escape the flames, two managed to get out unhurt, another two suffered burns to 20% of their bodies and Turia and Kate unfortunately got his the worse and were burnt over 60% of their bodies.

Kate lost half a foot, the tendons on her hands melted as she tried to protect her face with her hands and her arms and legs were severely burnt. For 4 long hours they hung on for dear life while waiting for rescue. What ensued was another 6 months of intense rehab, skin grafts and operations and years of recovery.

Now 7 years on Kate is back doing what she loves, doing ultras all over the world even conquering the infamous Marathon des Sables a 240km race across the Moroccan Sahara last year and the Grand to Grand in the USA and that despite not being able to regulate her temperature properly.

Next up is a 316km ultra in New Zealand the Alps 2 Ocean.

In this incredibly rare interview Kate shares her very private journey and I had the privilege to interview this incredibly strong woman.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info or to download our free run training ecourse go to www.runninghotcoaching.com/running-success

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Ultramarathon Athlete Lisa Tamati and Exercise Scientist Neil Wagstaff, founders of Running Hot Coaching the online Run Training club, answer some of the most commonly asked questions around run training, fitness, mindset and motivation, injuries and burnout

Lisa and Neil are a formidable coaching duo and their systems are revolutionary and are based on a combined 45 years experience racing the worlds toughest endurance events and coaching hundreds of athletes from all walks of life, all ability levels and from all around the world.

Listen in to why the traditional old high mileage training models just don't work and how to build a robust training system that will see you not only run faster, longer and better but a holistic system that will help you avoid injury, burnout, adrenal exhaustion and hormone imbalances that are so common today amongst runners.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Lisa Mammana is an Australian born mother of three. Her husband is in the Australian Air Force which means long periods of time with the kids on her own, add to that being a full time chef and having to shift towns and even countries regularly for her husbands work and you can imagine how tough it is to fit in your own fitness training and how hard it is to focus on your own sporting ambitions but somehow Lisa found the time to start. It wasn't all smooth sailing but slowly Lisa increased the distances she was able to do firstly just to the letterbox and back and after six months of steady work to do her first 10k but that was just beginning of her story.

She went on to achieve half marathons, marathons, ultramarathons and even a multi day stage race across the Australian Simpson Desert in 45 degree heat.

Hear her inspiring story.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Rose Byass suffered a mental breakdown and ended up hospitalised and at rock bottom but inside she had a strong will to survive and to get back up again, a strong desire to climb back out of the morass and after over a decade in the army and having faced many of lifes typical problems she the resilience to get back up.

A big part of her recovery journey was when she took up running. At first just short distances but within a very short period of time she started tackling one ultramarathon after the other. Getting mentally stronger alongside getting physically stronger and fitter.

She is a strong advocate for the power of sport to help people overcome depression and mental health issues.

Her next challenge is to compete in Florida in the Triple Ironman.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 25 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Natasha Sekulic is an overachiever. A young, ambitious Australian woman who is mild mannered lawyer by day an adventure seeking, limit pushing, kick ass ultrarunner by night.

Having no athletic background at all, she decided to run a half marathon to deal with the grief from a bad break up. Shortly after that, she was diagnosed with bipolar. In 2013, she took the plunge and entered the Big Red Run, a 250km multistage race across the Simpson Desert. From that day forward, she has used ultra running to help manage her depression and has chosen to be defined by possibilities rather than labels or limitations.

She has run over twenty ultramarathons including three 250km multistage events (the Big Red Run, the Atacama Crossing, and the Patagonia roving race). She has also run two 100 milers - the Zion 100 and the Hubert 100.

Natashas journey has not been as easy one but it has been an empowering one. Find out why she thinks multi day stage racing is the ultimate sport not only for the athletic challenge but for how it can change and impact your psyche, your self imposed limitations and your possibilities and why the comradeship found out there on the trails and deserts is so valuable to her

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

.

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Dr Bill Henry Andrews, Ph.D. is an American molecular biologist and gerontologist whose career has centered on searching for a cure for human aging. Andrews is the founder and president of the biotechnology company Sierra Sciences.

Aging is a complex and difficult topic that has been the centre of attention of many scientists for centuries. That's also what Bill Andrews, Ph.D. has made his challenge to solve.

Aging isn't an accident. We age because our telomeres get shorter and our cells age. Every time our cells divide, our telomeres get shorter and our cells age. Aging is also the cause of a lot of diseases. Research suggests that control of the telomere length has the potential to treat many diseases linked to aging.

This is what SIERRA SCIENCES group of scientists led by Dr Andrews has been working on for the last two decades and is close to finding cures that will change the way we live
our life forever.

A number of products using their breakthrough techology are already on the market and more powerful ones are in clinical trials.

In the lab they have already made immortal cells that never age or die at Harvard university has already reversed aging in rats and now the human trials are about to get underway.

You won't want to miss this cutting edge research. If you want to live a long and healthy life then you will want to hear what Dr Bill, Nobel prize winning scientist has to say.

Dr Andrews was also one of two scientists featured in a netflix documentary called "The Immortalists" which follows their pursuit of the fountain of youth. Click this link to watch the trailer: The Immortalists

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Canadian Carl Wright is a Blogger, Warehouse Worker, Lay Pastor, Family Man and an ultramarathon runner.

He only started running 4 years ago at the age of 56 and now at age 60 he is attempting to do his first 100 miler after already having achieved, the half marathon, marathon, 50km and 80km distances.

He is a student in my "Mindset Academy" and this episode is actually a coaching call I did with Carl.

We talk about what it will take for him to achieve this mammoth, frightening and difficult goal, the training, the tactics but most importantly the mindset required.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Dr Susan Oldfield hails originally from England and completed her medical training in the UK at UCL medical school, obtaining MBBS.

After this she went on to complete a Diploma in Family Planning as well as a Diploma in Obstetrics and Gynaecology, whilst completing her GP training and gaining the qualification MRCGP in the UK.

Her family and her decided to move to NZ in 2004. She then obtained GP qualifications in NZ, FRCGP.

Since then Susan has been working as a GP in a busy urban practice in New Plymouth.

She decided to pursue her interest in Integrative Medicine as she feels that combining a conventional approach with a more holistic approach provides clients with the best of both worlds. Because GP consultations are so time-limited, it is difficult to investigate problems in depth. With more time and an integrative approach, Susan is able to add much more to a consultation.

In this interview we discuss why the conventional medicine model wasn't working for her anymore, what an "Integrated Practitioner" means and what she sees coming in the future in the world of medicine, health and wellbeing.

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Run Coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff talk about using a checklist to check in with your body everyday and learning to gauge from that your body's preparedness for your training sessions.

Training programmes shouldn't be arbitrary but rather take into account your daly performance ability according to your ratings on different aspects of your life. For example how do you rate your hydration, your sleep quality and time, your stress levels, your nutrition today etc etc

They teach using the data to assess your ability on a day to day basis.

We don't live in a vacuum and most of us have other stressors that have to be balanced in our lives. Learning to understand our body's signals and rhythms will mean we get better fitness results not to mention more health benefits.

If you would like to get a copy of the PDF checklist mentioned in this podcast. Please email lisa@runninghotcoaching.com

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info check us out at www.runninghotcoaching.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Rob has been leading and guiding people in business, outdoor adventure and personal growth for twenty years. He has traveled extensively throughout the world on climbing, kayaking, mountain biking and multisport expeditions and has experience as a certified mountain guide, search and rescue operator and working with adaptive athletes and injured veterans in the outdoors. Along the way he’s climbed mountains on five continents and participated in over fifty of the world’s toughest adventure racing and ultra running endurance events. He holds a B.S. in Environmental Health and has worked as a Sustainability and Corporate Culture Change expert for several Fortune 500 companies.

He has been a Certified Professional Coach and Energy Leadership Master Practitioner since 2012, and is an expert in supporting people make positive shifts in their life, helping them overcome adversity and discover how to live in alignment with who they authentically are. Rob utilizes a wide range of approaches and draws from his advanced studies and experience in Meditation, Buddhist Philosophy, Western Psychology, Sound Healing and Shamanic Practices. He also draws upon his personal experience in the areas of Health, Fitness, Nutrition and Exercise Physiology

In 2016 Rob faced his ultimate challenge when he was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung Cancer and given just a 4% chance of survival. Defying conventional wisdom he chose to forgo chemotherapy and take a natural approach to healing, transforming every aspect of his life through diet, exercise, meditation and the power of positive perception. Rob is now returning to normal life and continuing his efforts to serve and empower others through coaching, writing and guiding.

His main focus is developing one of a kind adventures that create opportunities for people to explore the world through adventurous travel. By bridging the gap between ancient wisdom and modern knowledge he offers transformative experiences that explore the land, culture & mythology of each destination, supporting people in stepping beyond their comfort zones, expanding their perspectives and learning universal wisdom that can be applied in overcoming perceived challenges in any area of life.

In this interview we discuss his cancer journey, how he dealt with the prognosis he had only 8 weeks to live, how he gets the most out of each day and about his passion to empower and inspire others by organising incredible outdoor adventures.

His next adventure - walking in the footsteps of the Chasqui runners on the Inca Trail is coming up in June and we talk about the experiences to be had on this wonderful trek.

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Ultramarathon runners and coaches Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff of www.runninghotcoaching.com talk about their running and coaching journey together.

How Coach Neil took Lisa's already strong ultramarathon running career to a whole new level and how he learnt so much for his own coaching and running career along the way.

Lisa and Neil talk about what Lisa was doing wrong when they met, how they corrected her training, the learnings of thousands of miles together and why they then started their online coaching academy in order to short cut these hard won insights for the next generation of runners, from beginners to experienced ultramarathoners.

They discuss their holistic approach to training and how to get to the start line in the best shape possible in the most efficient training manner possible and why mobility, strength and conditioning, nutrition and mindset belong in the mix of any good plan.

If you love running adventures or if you want to take your running to the next level you will enjoy this insightful fireside chat with Lisa and Neil

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals.

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Meet my wonderful and inspiring friend Molly Sheridan of Reno, Nevada. Molly and I met while running the Badwater Ultramarathon through Death Valley, then again the La Ultra 222km at altitude in the Himalayas. She is a truely inspiring woman with an inspiring story.

At 48 years old Molly entered her first marathon. Four weeks into training she injured her foot and was told that she was too old to be running. Taking her own advice, Molly corrected her training, mailed her finish-line picture to the doctor who told her she was old, and decided to challenge herself. As a novice runner, she entered the Rio Del Lago 100-mile Endurance Race. Traversing 100 miles non-stop through northern California, she discovered her love of endurance running, her youthful mind and her adventurous spirit.

In the past 7 years, Molly has run over 50 ultramarathons. In 2009, she completed the extreme running event Marathon Des Sables (MDS), a seven-day, 150-mile stage race across the Sahara Desert. Eight weeks later, Molly completed the 135-mile, non-stop, Badwater Ultramarathon. An invitation-only event, Badwater is considered the toughest footrace on the planet. It begins at Badwater, Death Valley, the lowest point in the continental U.S., and ends at Mt. Whitney portal, a 13,000-foot vertical ascent. The documentary “Molly’s Run,” chronicling her Badwater run, for which she received the coveted buckle for finishing under the 48-hour time limit.

Molly is the first American woman to attempt and complete La Ultra-The High ultra-marathon, a 138-mile non-stop footrace in the Himalayas. La Ultra begins at 14,000 feet, with climbs to 18,000 feet over two passes. The race culminates in the Morey Plains on the border between China and Pakistan. Even though the India Government stated that the race was physically impossible to complete, Molly completed the race August 13, 2011.

Molly is featured among the “Women Who Move” in Women’s Running magazine; on Adventure Woman Radio, Nevada Public Radio KNPR, The Christian Science Monitor; and in the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

As an owner of Desert Sky Adventures, a race management company in Las Vegas, Molly encourages others to walk and run for their health. She also speaks to audiences across the country on her exploits and the benefits of running for health and continues to run adventure races and ultra-marathons around the globe.

In this interview we discuss Molly's adventures, the successes and failures and why you should still push your limits even when you are 61.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals.

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. An in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality, mental wellbeing and the keys for success in anything you set your mind to.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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If you are just starting out as a newbie runner or perhaps you have been at it for a while but want to improve your running experience, times, distances or enjoyment, then Lisa shares with you on this podcast some of her favourite quick win, running tips. Things you may have already heard but forgotten as well as some completely new insights and ninja tips learned through hard won experience.

So whereever you are on your running journey and whatever distance or terrain you like there is something for everyone here.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info on Neil click here: ... see more (link to the about us page

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy.

This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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In this episode Lisa discusses proper breathing technique and why it is so very important for health.

The benefit list is long.
But most people in our modern society don’t breath properly i.e. diaphragmatic breathing for a number of reasons.

The benefits
Proper breathing helps with:
relieving anxiety, stress and tension
can stop panic attacks
Helps our psychological state and helps us to control our emotions and change our emotions.
Helps detoxify the body.
Helps to optimally oxygenate the body and all its organs which helps with healing, longevity and health in general.
Leads to more inner peace, focus and mind and thought control.
Helps athletes to optimal performance in their sports.
strengthens the important diaphragm muscle which tends to weaken as we get older.
Breathing only in the upper chest stimulates the panic receptors, breathing into the stomach activates the calming receptors there and activates the parasympathetic nervous system.
Using the diaphragm muscle helps massage and move the inner organs and helps with digestion and detoxification.
Helps you control your anger, fear and anxiety to face more and bigger challenges without freezing or panicking.
Can help lower the release of stress hormones cortisol and adrenaline in the bloody stream.
Stop overuse of the upper chest muscles and intercostals (which happens when we just breath into the upper 1/3 of our lungs). This can lead to tight and shortened muscles in the neck, shoulders and chest.
Deep diaphragmatic breathing helps us deal with pain and breath through it. When we stop breathing or hold our breath because we are in pain, it gets worse.
Diaphragmatic breathing strengthens your lungs, it doesn’t increase lung capacity but makes them stronger and strengthens the primary breathing muscles.

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info on Neil click here: ... see more (link to the about us page

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Mal Law is a living trail running legend.

His life philosophy is summed up in this one sentence.

Dream Big. Live Big. Do Good. Inspire People.
These are the beliefs that drive his passion for ‘adventures with a cause’.

From early childhood he devoured stories of great adventurers and explorers and always dreamed big and imagined great adventures of his own, but until quitting a successful market research career in 2008 he had lacked the self-belief to actually live big.

That all changed when the idea of running New Zealand’s 7 mainland Great Walks back to back in just 7 days came to me out of the blue. It was a hugely audacious challenge; one that nobody had ever attempted before and it would push him as a self confessed humble ‘weekend warrior’ type athlete, to the very brink of his capabilities.

But he had a special reason for wanting to attempt the unthinkable; what many said was the impossible. He wanted to do good by raising a serious amount of money for a charity close to his heart, Leukaemia & Blood Cancer NZ, because as a 9-year old he had lost his older brother to this cruel disease.

And against the odds I succeeded. What’s more he discovered that in sharing his adventures he could inspire people to push their own boundaries and tackle their own ‘personal Everest’.

Since then he has dreamed up, planned and completed lots more epic adventures and has raised almost $800,000 for charity. He has defied the odds and refused to let his limited athletic prowess define who he is or what I he is capable of. He continues to push his personal boundaries and through writing, film-making and public speaking he continues to tell stories that inspire people to believe, as he does, that ordinary people really can achieve extraordinary things.

His most famous and audacious adventure was to run 50 marathons in 50 days doing 50 mountains in New Zealand. This huge adventure nearly broke him and he had to change the goals along the way due to injuries but in true nature he persevered as best he could and the film from this mission has now travelled with the Banff Mountain film festival all over the world. He had over 300 people involved, the logistics were huge and the project planning immense. It was a project that he admits nearly broke him and he has never quite been the same.

We discuss being "breakable", we discuss the hell hole of depression after huge projects like this, we discuss burn out and how to find balance and joy again in life.

Mal is now inspiring other trail runners through his Wildthings trail runner club and you can join that here www.wildthings.club or find more out about Mal go to www.malcolmlaw.co.nz

We would also like to thank the sponsors of this show.

Running Hot Coaching:

The online training platform run by Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff.

Do you have a dream to run a big race, maybe a half marathon, a marathon or even an ultramarathon?

Have you struggled to fit in the training in your busy life?

Maybe you don't know where to start or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injuries troubles?

Do you want to beat last years time or finish at the front of the pack?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then we can help you.

We promise to get you to the start line in the best shape ever! We will give you the benefit of our years of knowledge and experience in competing and training athletes, so you can avoid the mistakes, train efficiently, have fun and stay in optimal health while you are doing it.

So who are we?

Lisa Tamati is an a professional ultramarathon runner with over 23 years experiences racing the world's toughest endurance events and leading expeditions. Author of two internationally published running adventure books. She is also a mindset expert. From crossing the Libyan desert on foot to running Death Valley to running the length of NZ for charity, she has been there and done that. For more information on Lisa click here: www.lisatamati.co.nz

Neil Wagstaff is an exercise scientist, coach and ultramarathon runner with over 22 years experience in the health and fitness industry. He has trained hundreds of athletes and coaches alike to the successful completion of their goals. For more info on Neil click here: ... see more (link to the about us page

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Te Radar (Andrew J Lumsden) is an award winning satirist, documentary maker, writer, stage and screen director, failed gardener, and amateur historian.

He was also the presenter of six top rating TVNZ documentary series, Global Radar, Radar Across the Pacific, Radar’s Patch, Off the Radar, Hidden In The Numbers and Homegrown. Global Radar won the 2012 New Zealand Television Award for Best Information Programme, and Radar Across the Pacific won for Best Factual Programme.

Te Radar was nominated for Best Presenter – Entertainment/Factual. Radar’s Patch won the 2010 Qantas Film and Television Award for Best Information/Lifestyle Programme.

He has recently toured his acclaimed New Zealand history show Eating the Dog following its award-winning season at the New Zealand International Comedy Festival.

In this interview Lisa talks to Radar about his journey to success.

Why it was a case of having to "make it" and finds out what method there is to the magical madness he creates.

He talks about successes and failures and why doing it his own way was so important to him.

We would like to thanks our sponsors

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at Training Tilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Dr Lior Rauchberger talks in this interview about the future of personalised health care through the use of DNA tests.

Simple swab tests can now reveal how your body will uniquely respond to some medicines, what you eat and drink, and how you exercise.

MyDNA is helping move healthcare from offering solutions that work for most people, to finding what is best suited to your body. Less ‘one-size-fits-all’ advice, more that’s tailored to fit your body.

It’s personalised health and it's very exciting.

No longer do you have to take a stab in the dark as to what works best for your genetic make up. The experimenting can stop, the less than satisfactory results that plague many of us.

Questions like why do I put on weight when my friend doesn't even when I do more exercise and eat less. Why does one guy respond well to weight training and builds big strong defined muscles and another doesn't.

Why does one medication work for one and not for another.

DNA testing can tell us some of these reasons and more are being revealed every day as the research finally catches up.

Find out from Dr Lior Rauchberger what's in store for our futures and how you can personally benefit.

For more information go to https://www.mydna.life/

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Chris McDougall is the world wide best selling Author of Born to Run and Natural Born Heroes. Two books that have revolutionised the running world and bought to the fore the discussions around human endurance, the history of running, the ability of people to run incredible distances and the barefoot running revolution.

In this fireside chat we discuss how he writes his incredibly entertaining and intricately woven stories despite have ADHD. How he manages to sit still long enough to get anything down and what impact the stories he has shared have had on millions of readers around the world.

Trained as a foreign correspondent for the Associated Press, Christopher McDougall covered wars in Rwanda and Angola before writing his international bestseller, Born to Run. His fascination with the limits of human potential led him to create the Outside magazine web series, “Art of the Hero.” Born to Run is currently being made into a feature film starring Matthew McConaughey.
The book - "Born to Run" was about a Hidden Tribe of superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen. It was a 2009 best-selling ethnography. The book has sold over three million copies.

Natural Born Heroes:

Chris in this book travels to the Mediterranean, where he discovers that the secrets of ancient Greek heroes are still alive and well on the island of Crete, and ready to be unleashed in the muscles and minds of casual athletes and aspiring heroes everywhere.

After running an ultramarathon through the Copper Canyons of Mexico, Christopher McDougall finds his next great adventure on the razor-sharp mountains of Crete, where a band of Resistance fighters in World War II plotted the daring abduction of a German general from the heart of the Nazi occupation. How did a penniless artist, a young shepherd, and a playboy poet believe they could carry out such a remarkable feat of strength and endurance, smuggling the general past thousands of Nazi pursuers, with little more than their own wits and courage to guide them?

McDougall makes his way to the island to find the answer and retrace their steps, experiencing firsthand the extreme physical challenges the Resistance fighters and their local allies faced. On Crete, the birthplace of the classical Greek heroism that spawned the likes of Herakles and Odysseus, McDougall discovers the tools of the hero—natural movement, extraordinary endurance, and efficient nutrition. All of these skills, McDougall learns, are still practiced in far-flung pockets throughout the world today.

For more information on Chris and his epic adventures and books visit

www.chrismcdougall.com

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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In this solocast Lisa talks about the different types and styles of leadership. The different phases that a leader can go through throughout the stages of their career.

She gives examples and stories of the differing leadership archetypes and how to transition between different leadership facets in a given role.

She talks of the character traits necessary to engender respect, trust, loyalty and motivation, honour and going beyond the call of duty.

If you aspire to be a strong and resilient leader who can help your team, organisation or business navigate the shark infested waters of any challenge then this podcast will give you the tools, the reflections and techniques you can employ to guide your crew to success.

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Ben Warren, founder of Be Pure is all about designing a scientifically driven and holistic health and nutrition programme for the individual.

Helping clients with difficult chronic health issues through eating plans and supplementation designed according to their profile and genetic type.

Ben believes that our health and optimal energy is influenced by what we eat, how we move, how we sleep and how we think and that the human body is an amazing and complex thing and we that we need to look at it from all angles so it can function optimally.

In this discussion we cover topics ranging from chronic lifestyle diseases through to gut health, hormone balance, avoiding the toxins in our environment to anti-aging strategies, common allergens and detoxing.

We talk about the future of health including much more personalised solutions and the psychology of getting to the root cause of issues rather than looking for "quick fixes" that don't usually get to the bottom of the problems.

www.bepure.co.nz

For more episodes of Pushing the limits make sure you subscribe on itunes.

Just search for "Pushing the Limits" or on stitcher, soundcloud or via the website at www.lisatamati.co.nz/podcast.

We would also like to thank our show sponsors:

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills and the keys for success in any endeavour.

For a free mini course go to www.lisatamati.co.nz

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

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Many have come to know about Barefoot Ted through the pages of Christopher McDougall’s best-selling book Born to Run

Barefoot Ted spent over a decade mastering natural running techniques, and is an accomplished athlete known for self-experimentation and testing his natural human capabilities. He is founder and president of LUNA Sandals, the adventure sandal company based in Seattle, and Solowheel Seattle, the one-wheeled urban transporter company he started in 2014.

In 2003 Barefoot Ted McDonald was on a seemingly simple mission: to learn how to run pain-free. That simple desire led him down a rabbit-hole of a quest to learn as much as he could about natural running form, the natural selection of footwear, and the evolution of human movement. On his journey he re-discovered that the human body is not broken by design – humans have an amazing capacity to move well solely with their own equipment – their bodies. As he learned more about the natural selection of footwear in human cultures, he kept finding the simple sandal as the footwear of choice for many cultures past and present.

This fascinating quest into the world of movement, running, and simple footwear led him to a man named Caballo Blanco and into the Copper Canyons of Mexico in 2006; the story of which is famously chronicled in Christopher McDougall’s best-seller, Born To Run.

Nowadays Barefoot Ted heads up a minimalist shoe company called Luna Sandals based on the sandals used by the Tarahumara Indians in Mexico. He is also a proponent of the solowheel and believes this relatively new way to get around will become a phenomenon.

You can find out more about Barefoot Ted at www.barefootted.com

and to check out the Luna Sandals go to Luna Sandals

To purchase the book in which he starred "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall go to http://www.chrismcdougall.com/born-to-run/

Training Tilt software - a complete toolkit for trainers, health and fitness professionals, coaches and nutritionists, combine your website, ecommerce needs, client communication and training plans into one easy to use platform. Find out more at www.lisatamati.co.nz/trainingtilt

The Path of an Athlete - Mindset academy. This is an in-depth online programme that teaches you how to develop mental toughness, resilience, leadership skills, a never quit mentality and the keys for success in any endeavour.

Do you wish you had the mental toughness of an extreme athlete?
Do you seek the confidence to deal with any threat, to steer any situation or challenge to a positive outcome?

If so, you can now learn the secrets to mental toughness and to developing a never quit mindset from someone who has been there and done that and lived to tell the tale.

For more information on "The Path of an Athlete" mindset eCourse go to www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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David has participated in adventure Sports for more than 30 years and have competed in the Coast to Coast One Day, Southern Traverse, Arrow Adventure Race Series and every North Island Multisport race held in the 1990’s. David has instructed in the Outdoors since 2000 in kayaking, caving, climbing and tramping. He keeps current by continuing to find challenges in the outdoors and spends a huge amount of time ‘out there’ ether with kids or on a personal adventure somewhere.

David is passionate about growing young people through adventure and challenge activities and has dedicated his life to this. In 2010 he established the GO-4-12 Youth adventure Race which is also the official New Zealand Secondary Schools Adventure Racing Championships. The success of the GO-4-12 and the obvious need to get kids off electronic devices and into the outdoors motivated him to establish the Kiwi Adventure Trust a not for profit Trust which currently works with over 70 groups and school each year. David’s Story is one of following ones passion and he has refused to give up until he has achieved the goals that are in his heart.

For more information on the Kiwi Adventure trust and what they do visit their website http://www.kiwi-adventure.co.nz/

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Epigenetics is about to change the way we view our health and fitness, how we understand the expression of our genes.

But what is epigenetics? We won't go into the deep scientific defintion here rather look at how a particular assessment tool can help you interpret your own epigenetics and how it can improve your life, your health, fitness even your mindset, career direction and understand how you learn.

Cam McDonald of PH360 and Angela Jenkins an Epigenetics coach explain the background development of PH360 and online tool is directed at consumers and how it can personalise your approach to your health.

ph360 uses complex algorithms developed by researchers to translate the distinct relationship between your body’s measurements and physical traits to its physical functions, hormone secretions, metabolism, and lifestyle preferences, it uses anthropometry (scientific assessment of your body’s measurements), family history, and assessment of your lifestyle and environment to determine your phenotypic and epigenetic profile.

By taking this online assessment you get personally made reports for all areas of your life, which can help explain how you function.

It looks at the foods you should eat, the times when you most productive, the hours you should be sleeping, how you work best with other people, the way your mind functions and what you need to keep yourself balanced and happy. It gives you deep insights into your make up and truly personalises your approach to health and fitness.

We have a special offer for listeners. If you would like to take the assessment and find out more you can use the link below to get a huge discount on the assessment and a one on one coaching session with Angela Jenkins.

Usually priced at $377 AUD get the coaching and assessment and one year subscription to the platform for $197 AUD

Discount package for epigenetics testing and consult

For more information about Angela Jenkins and the Kaizen institute go to www.kaizenih.com

Dr Cam McDonald
Dr Cam is the Managing Director and lead trainer of PH360 Australia. He is a nutrition and exercise scientist. Dr Cam is best known for his work in the areas of genetics, coaching strategies, reversing chronic disease, and brain health.

Having spend the last 4 years transitioning his private practice clients from generic programs to fully tailored genetically-based programs, his clients with conditions like diabetes, heart disease, blood pressure and auto-immune conditions now live disease free and on a continual path to their optimal health. Those with a history of yo-yo dieting and stubborn, immovable weight have found the unique code that works for them, where nothing else did. Needless to say, these clients are very happy, refer lots of people and his client retention has gone through the roof!

For more information on Dr Cam and PH360 go to www.ph360.me

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Lisa Tamati Ultramarathon athlete, Author, health,fitness and mindset coach interviews Angela Jenkins and David Liow from the Kaizen Institute from the Sunshine Coast in Australia about their holistic health and fitness programmes, their hormonal and food allergy testing procedures or health diagnostics and epigenetics.
We find out what the future of personalised health and fitness programmes look like and why you need to be treated as a whole person and not just have parts of your regime looked at in isolation.
Angela and Dave run programmes for health professionals and work directly with clients as well and have over 40 years experience between them.
You can find out more about them at www.kaizenih.com including their diagnostic health testing.

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Dr Nick Kimber is passionate about helping people get their nutrition dialled in. Whether you are an elite endurance athlete or an executive battling the bulge.

Educating and empowering others to become the best version of themselves through optimal nutrition is his life's work.

Dr Nick has developed an easy to follow framework that never leaves you hungry, is flexible, includes readily available foods, has additional nutrient support and most importantly is sustainable.

In this in-depth interview we discuss what to eat, when and how and what to avoid. We go head to head on a number of controversial diet philosophies and come up with things that will benefit everyone regardless of whether you are vegan, paleo, high protein/low carb or high fat aficionado.

Dr Nick has also kindly given the listeners of this show some fantastic resources to help you implement and take action on what you will learn in this show.

Check out this links here:

Master your nutrition: Master your Nutrition Blueprint

How do I eat Flow chart: How do I eat?

Article on Intermittent Fasting: Intermittent Fasting.

Dr Nicks website: www.drnick.co.nz

Dr Nick has coached hundreds of individuals with some outstanding results in energy, physique, confidence and physical performance.

If you feel unmotivated and are frustrated with your poor nutrition habits, it’s time to break the cycle and unleash the new and improved version of YOU by listening in to this interview.

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Learn to win in the mind before going into battle.

Understand what a growth mindset it and how to harness your potential through passion, finding your why, discovering your purpose and developing your core set of values that inform your actions.

Understand the self talk required for achieving lofty goals and develop the depth of your self awareness so you can work on the traits and skills you will need to tackle any challenge.

Understand the power of your emotions and passions to helping you fulfil your potential and learn to set out a plan and navigate the way from where you are now till where you want to be.

For more mindset and mental toughness skills visit Lisa's online academy at www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Exercise physiologist Neil Wagstaff and Ultra marathon athlete Lisa Tamati from Running Hot Coaching (www.runninghotcoaching.com) talk about ideal running form, how to strengthen your body to run faster for longer, the importance of the kinetic chain, running drills and much more around running and fitness.

Here is a link to a pdf's on the drills we mentioned in the podcast.

Form drills

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8YZ7Ysb6kcLeWhqanNkRjIwYW8/view

and a link to some videos

Kinetic chain and the importance of good posture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKttdP5W4kk&index=43&list=PLBQv0nnALb_kj0nXoQJF_tmcLGnKXC_yp

Using mini resistance bands for strength

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bVS5mG4Pkc&list=PLBQv0nnALb_kj0nXoQJF_tmcLGnKXC_yp&index=44

How to strengthen and stretch your hips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZbMaF0GL8&list=PLBQv0nnALb_kj0nXoQJF_tmcLGnKXC_yp&index=45

For more coaching information visit us at www.lisatamati.co.nz and www.runninghotcoaching.com

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Ever wanted to know about Autonomous vehicles, the future of transportation, yoga, mindset, controlling your autonomous nervous system, racism or autism, savant syndrome, then this extremely interesting man and this interview has some thing for you.

Dave Verma was born in India in 1967 in very humble circumstances and following immigration in 1970 at the age of three into a frequently hostile environment in New Zealand, Dave Verma has spent most of his life overcoming significant obstacles including autism, racism, tall poppy syndrome and a large number of glass ceilings which had to be smashed through, during more than one career direction change.

Currently employed as the Director for Autonomous Vehicle Initiatives for Australasia, for HMI Technologies Ltd, Dave has held numerous roles as a Project Director along with other senior management positions in both the public sector and private sector and to date with his teams, has delivered in excess of 2 billion dollars’ worth of international large scale enforcement programmes, projects and alliances around the world over the last decade.

A recognised expert in Transportation Technologies, Security Systems, Back Office Decision Support Systems and Infrastructure as well as large scale ITS architecture standards, Dave is currently the director of HMI Technologies Autonomous Vehicle programme across Australasia running multiple independent trials of Autonomous vehicles in a variety of situations.

Whilst working in the Middle East and at age 47 Dave went back to Hult International Business School and received an EMBA, he also holds a degree in English Literature and during the course of his career has amassed a substantial number of IT and other industry qualifications. Happily married to his wife Rana, accompanied by three large dogs and two Maine Coone cats, Dave is currently working on developing his blogs whilst studying writing techniques and producing his first novel whilst developing a global strategy to disrupt the Transportation market with autonomous vehicles.

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Mindset expert and ultra marathon athlete Lisa Tamati talks about her secrets to being able to tackle the biggest and scariest of projects and not giving in.
It's all about using accountability on different levels to keep yourself focused on the end goal. Building a framework that helps you keep the discipline going to get where you want to be.

Check out the mental toughness, resilience and leadership course by Lisa at:
www.lisatamati.co.nz/ecourse

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Trudy Northcott has spent her life problem solving for her health sake. From age 8 Trudy had a rare spinal disorder which led to 30 years of pain and illness. She made it her mission to be responsible for her own body and get her health back against the so called "odds".

Now trained as a Bulletproof Coach Trudy helps others regain their own health as well as operating her online store www.energiseme.co.nz which specialises in products of integrity for a healthy mind and body.

With a history of learning what it takes to gain health back in this modern world the reality of stigma and discrimination was a huge block. In answer to this dilemma, Trudy felt compelled to be part of the solution instead of being a victim. As a result, she recently launched the community inspired project hughacker.com.

In this interview Lisa and Trudy discuss how to take control of your own health journey and not to just rely on pharmaceuticals for answers. They take an in-depth look into the biohacking phenomenon and ways to improve your life and wellbeing.

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Hormone scholar, nutritionist, integrative gastrointestinal endocrine specialist, teacher of Doctors and author of 21 books, Dr. Lindsey Berkson, joins Lisa to discuss her everything hormones and health, breakthrough research and cutting edge information as well as discussing her new book, “Sexy Brain”. She explains how love is under attack, and the reasons why we’re all fighting a battle with our toxic environment.

From all things hormones, to the worst endocrine disruptors, to helpful tips for setting our hormones up for success

Dr Berkson is a thought leader in functional hormones. Her career spans more than four decades of research, clinical practice, authorship, teaching, pharmaceutical and nutraceutical investigation, and her own experience as a patient and survivor of multiple cancers in her early years. She knows what it's like to be on both sides of the health equation.
Berkson has been in on functional nutrition since its inception.
In this interview which we cover so much territory around hormones, brain health, nutrition, exercises, herbs and much more. Over 90 minutes of in-depth information from a world leading scholar. If you value your health you must listen in.

For Dr Berksons books, for consultations or speaking enquiries go to www.drlindseyberkson.com

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Gary is like a health crime investigator. He looks for the tiniest of clues that may help solve the mysteries of chronic ill health, or poor performance.

This then leads to the development of lasting solutions, or better management through functional nutrition. Functional nutrition is nutrition based care that is focused on building health and performance by restoring the body to optimum physiological functioning.

Addressing the root causes of poor health and not just chasing symptoms

Getting to the "ROOT CAUSES" of ill health and knocking them on the head is the mission that Gary is on.

He has over 30 years clinical experience and has many academic qualifications including DipPhEd, PGDipRehab, PGDipSportMed (Otago).

Gary is registered with Inter Clinical Laboratories Pty Ltd, as a Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis and Nutritional Medicine Consultant. He has completed many courses in Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (HTMA) and does hundreds of consultations per year and works as an educator and mentor for practitioners who are learning to use the HTMA. Gary is highly regarded among his peers for his expertise with using the HTMA to help identify the root causes of ill health in sedentary and active people, including elite athletes, the injured, children, the elderly and for infertility.

He specialises in everything from Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis
Athlete Performance & Recovery
Sports Injury Prevention and Management
Healthy Ageing, Cognition & Strong Bones
Joint Health, including arthritis
Adrenal Fatigue
Thyroid Health
Hormonal Health (men as well as women)
Child Health & Nutrition
Blood Pressure, Circulation, & Heart Disease
Healthy Breathing
Blood Sugar Control & Weight Management
​Immune Support and Allergy Control
Digestion & Gut Health
Liver, Lymphatic, and Detoxification
Toxic elements elimination
Infection Control

In this interview which will be the first of a few we will have with Gary on this podcast series on health, fitness and mindset we discuss the major problems with our current health system and how you can take charge of your own health journey. What you need to know in regards your own health and how you can achieve wellness well into old age.

This is a must listen episode with a man who walks the talk.

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This podcast is on a topic that I have struggled with thought it something that perhaps many of my listeners will also find hard.

How do you know when it's time to quit on a project, relationship, business or sporting ambition.

We all know the old adage "Quitters never win and winners never quit." But this isn't true and is far too simplified for this complicated world we live in.

Winners, I purport have quit many many times, the key is they didn't stop going for their goals they just rearranged and changed things. Being flexible in the face of adversity is key.

In this podcast I give a simple framework to work through when deciding whether to continue on a given path or when the cost of continuing isn't worth the investment and is causing you to lose out on other opportunities.

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Exercise physiologist Neil Wagstaff and Professional Ultra marathon athlete Lisa Tamati talk about why it's important to work "in" and not just work "out".

Working "in" is all about lowering your stress hormones in the body (cortisol and adrenaline) and helping your body get fitter with less stress effects.

If you are struggling with adrenal fatigue, are tired or exhausted and overstressed then piling on HIIT workouts and long cardio sessions can often be more detrimental overall to your health than working on sessions that increase your wellbeing.

Working "in" training means doing exercise and meditation that doesn't raise the heart rate too much but which help release the "good" hormones into the body and help you recover faster and relax. Most of us need to de-stress it's a common complaint in our hectic world so maybe instead of that hard workout you had planned it might be better for your overall health to do yoga, pilates, stretching, a brisk walk or some breathing exercises and meditation.

When you lower stress hormones your body is also more likely to release stored fat and it inihibits storing more fat from the food you eat. So although it might seem counterintuitive to do a gentler workout it might actually over time help you lose more weight, it will definitely help your sense of wellbeing and your ability to train hard on those other days.

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Kim Allan is a New Zealand-based ultra marathon runner. At the age of 47 on 22 November 2012 she attempted to complete a 500 km Ultra marathon with no sleep around the Sri Chimnoy Peace Mile at Auckland Domain, raising money for the New Zealand spinal trust and the Catwalk Spinal Cord Injury Trust but she only managed 385.8 km. However that wasn't the end of the story.

Allan followed up at the International Association of Ultra runners (IAU) 24 Hour World Championship in the Netherlands on 11 & 12 May 2013 by accomplishing 203.919 km in the 24 hour period, then in December 2013 Allan ran for 86 hours, 11 minutes and 9 seconds without sleeping. In that run she broke the previous women's world record of running without sleep (which was 486 kilometers) reaching 500 kilometers. She was running to support the New Zealand Spinal Trust.

In this interview Lisa talks to Kim about overcoming obstacles, pushing the limits physically and mentally and what you gain when you face your fears, fight through the suffering and go for your goals.

This incredible lady has much to teach us and you will leave inspired and challenged to achieve more no matter what your dream is and to never give up.

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Cam Langford is a competitive Triathlete, Ironman competitor, software architetct and entrepreneur. Founder of health and fitness coaching platform "Training Tilt"
which is a complete toolkit for coaches and health and fitness professionals. Combining a website, ecommerce, client communications and training plans into a single platform.

Previously he has worked for over 10 years as a senior software developer in startups and knows the state the industry, the opportunities for young entrepreneurs wanting to opt out of working for big corporations and the skills and knowledge necessary to get underway.

His knowledge is cutting edge and gives the technologically uninitiated an understandable way to see and take advantage of the opportunities that the new plethora of software tools offer.

Opportunities that he says just 8- 10 years ago weren't available to the average person.

We live in unprecedented times and the ways to monetize an individuals skills are unlimited. The road has many pothills and it isn't easy so getting the inside running from an expert in this sector is invaluable.

For anyone thinking of opting out of the matrix, starting a side hustle or wanting to the take the leap in to entrepreneurship this podcast is a must listen.

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Take a glimpse into the life of a modern day Maori leader, warrior, speaker and executive. In this interview we delve into the ancient wisdom of the Maori people and look at the some of the solutions for modern day dilemmas that arise from these teachings. We discuss the lost generation of Maori who were forbidden to learn their own language and culture and who were told just to "get on in the Pakeha world" and  and the consequences of that colonisation call still apparent in today's world. 

Ngahihi shares his journey back to his roots and his culture and what triggered it for him.

Ngahihi o te ra Bidois has a Marketing Business degree, a post graduate diploma secondary teacher’s qualification, a tourism qualification and a Masters in Education with honours.

He is the National Speakers Association New Zealand (Auckland) 2007 Master of Ceremonies of the Year and the 2007 Bright Star Speaker of the Year, 2008 Inspirational Speaker of the Year, 2008 Speaker of the Year and 2009 Master of Ceremonies of the Year.

Hr  hashelped many Business Leaders, Educational Leaders, Sports Leaders and Community Leaders to increase their spheres of influence. He has presented in various countries including Malaysia, Singapore, America, England as well as conferences and seminars throughout New Zealand. Applying Ancient Wisdom from his indigenous culture Ngahihi offers pieces of wisdom in an inspiring and informing manner.

Ngahihi believes the most important resource in many organisations are their people. If people feel valued and are appropriately developed their continued contribution is priceless. One of our Maori proverbs outlines this: He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata. What is the most important thing? It is people, people, people. I help organisations to develop their people

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Jo was the Chief Executive of the Ministry for Women until September 2016. One of the youngest Chief Executives ever appointed in the New Zealand Public Service, she has invested her time and energy in advancing the cause of the vulnerable in society, spearheading some of the most difficult issues of our time, including child abuse, child poverty, family violence and vulnerable women.

She has established effective working relationships with Ministers, Government agencies, NGOs, Māori organisations, iwi, Pacific communities and the business sector.

Formerly the Deputy Children's Commissioner, author of the Government's Green Paper on Vulnerable Children, director of a number of NGOs, she has a Doctorate in Public Policy and works internationally on advancing development in the Pacific as a director of Volunteer Service Abroad (VSA).

In 2016 she was a finalist in the New Zealand Women of Influence Awards and in 2014 was one of three recipients of a Westpac Leaders Fellowship.

Jo is the proud mother of two and referees their Saturday morning sport, bakes cupcakes and sews Guide badges onto blankets.

In this interivew we discuss her recent Tedx talk on addressing the gender pay gap NZ. We discuss domestic violence, poverty and the roles of women in today's world.

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Grant is passionate about igniting the talent and passions of aspiring Kiwi professionals in their career.

By day he is a career consultant at Massey Universities Wellington campus, building students skills and confidence to move into their dream roles. By night, he helps aspiring professionals through his own online career consultancy firm Sparked, sharing best practice career development resources, tools and tips.

Grant has trained and coached thousands of individuals in areas such as finding career direction, personal marketing, standing out to employers in CVs and interviews, using LinkedIn and effective job hunting. He shares his knowledge from his background of over 15 years in executive coaching, training and marketing, having held management positions in the corporate, not for profit and tertiary sectors.

Grant was recently awarded the Distinguished Alumni award from Otago Polytechnic for his work in career development and in the community. He is a strong believer that great careers don’t happen by accident and that it is essential to get the best quality career advice. Hence, he is a professional member of the Career Development Association of New Zealand, is a certified StrengthsFinder coach and holds degrees in career practice, marketing and psychology.

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Have you ever wondered what the difference is between those who just achieve moderately in life and those who do extraordinary things that others think impossible?

Lisa reflects on what it takes to be a champion, to achieve greatness and to be extraordinary. What it will cost?

An inspirational and motivating talk to make you want to reach beyond your comfort zone, to risk failure in the pursuit of success.

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Phil Kingsley Jones is a Welsh legend. Comedian, Entertainer, Rugby Coach, Sports Agent and Manager, Business development manager, Author, Speaker,  Coal Miner and Pie seller all describe this lovable rogue.

Born in the Valleys of Wales he became an internationally acclaimed comedian touring with some of the biggest acts of the 70's and 80's from the likes of the Beach Boys, to Neil Sedaka to Cliff Richards to Lionel Ritchie and the Comodores to Dr Hook and Frankie Valli, you name them Phil worked with them.

In the 1980's Phil fell in love with a Kiwi girl and moved to New Zealand where he went back to his early passion Rugby, later becoming a coach and Sport Manager. He was Manager to the legend that was Jonah Lomu who was one of the first Rugby professionals. Jonah was like a son to Phil and we hear of Jonahs early career and how special this man was. In this interview Phil shares his life philosophy, his wicked sense of humour and gives an open and candid insight into the roller coaster ride that has been his life so far. All with a very welsh chuckle.

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Paul Rangiwahia is an artist on a mission. For years Paul's works have sparked intrigue and discussion for their quirkiness, their kiwiana style but now Paul has produced a very special piece of work called "The Mental W.O.F" which provides viewers with a daily dose of wellbeing. Made up of a set of 45 rules that Paul tries to live his life by, wisdom and principles to live a happy and fulfilled life. This artwork has gone viral and is encouraging and inspiring people all around the globe but Paul's journey to developing this set of principles has been through the school of hard knocks when two years ago his business failed and he was made bankrupt. He hit rock bottom before rediscovering his real passion for art and making this apparent disaster, which saw him lose his family home and everything he had worked for, into a turning point for good in his life. The Mental W.O.F was his start back to wellness and now he shares through his works and his speaking, his experiences and what is really important in life. You can see the Mental W.O.F or get your inspiring copy at www.paulrangiwahia.com

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Lisa Tamati professional Adventure Athlete, Author and Fitness & Mindset Coach explains in this educational short podcast why you need to build a little more functional muscle and why that will help you burn fat. She dispels the myths of the fat burning zone and slow steady cardio workouts, and calories in calories out.
Please like, subscribe and share this podcast with your networks and help us get the word out. You can also find us on itunes under "Pushing the Limits"

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Mikki Williden has a Phd in nutrition and is an endurance athlete.
she is passionate about maintaining good health and wellbeing through a whole food approach to nutrition, regular exercise, and a focus on optimising lifestyle factors that influence our ability to cope with the demands of everyday life. She is a Registered Nutritionist and Research Associate at AUT University.

Mikki's by line is eat real food, enjoy real health she has worked with a vast number of people with different health and performance goals. She has a regular column in Bite Magazine, which is part of the New Zealand Herald and Kiwi Trail Runner magazine.

She is also a Research Associate at AUT University, Auckland, teaching public health and sports performance nutritio and is part of the Human Potential Centre researching the effects of low carbohydrate, high fat diets on health and performance outcomes for adults, children and athletes.

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Maz Quinn is New Zealand's best known and most successful surfer.

A four-time winner of New Zealand's national surfing championships, and winner of the 1996 Billabong Pro-Junior Series, Quinn comes from a surfing mad family - his younger brother Jay and sister Holly have both won national titles, his mother is an advocate for Women's surfing and his father was a national official.

During the 1990s, Quinn took part in the World Qualifying Series and in 1999 Maz became the first New Zealander to win a WQS event and in 2001 he became the first New Zealander ever to qualify for the World Championship Tour, in doing so becoming one of the world's top 44 ranked male surfers.

In 2009, Quinn helped to stage the Quiksilver Maz Quinn King of the Groms, a national surfing event for youth.

In this interview Lisa finds out from Maz what it's like to be on the world tour, what the pressures are like, how hard it is to qualify, the setbacks and successes along the way, how it feels to surf alongside legends of the sport like Kelly Slater and how he faces up to his fears when surfing the big waves.
Maz opens up about how his parents guidance put him early in his life on the right road and what life has been like after the lights went down and the circus of the tour was over.

He talks about women in surfing, the state of the tour now and what surfing holds for the future and hones insights from his sport for life.

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Phillip Balmer has had more than 33 years of experience in the health sector with 20 years at the senior management or executive level and 15 years of that involved with commissioning or redesigning health care facilities.

He is a strong strategic leader and is brilliant at leading change, he is very people-focused. His goal is to develop an engaged workforce who are empowered and capable to drive and manage change.

In his current role he has responsiblity for 7500 employees and a 1.5 billion dollar budget.

The role also includes overall responsibility of CMDHB hospital services.

The combined size of Manukau Health Park and Middlemore Hospital makes it one of the largest emergency, ambulatory and inpatient facilities in Australasia. They also provide tertiary services in orthoplastics trauma, burns, and spinal services.

Past roles include being Chief Operating Officer for the Bay Of Plenty District Health boad, Chief Operating Officer for the Qatar Orthopaedic and Sports medicine Hospital and many more roles.

In this interview we look at the state of the Health system in New Zealand, what the future holds, how he hopes to improve the collaboration between hospital services and community based primary health organisations and his new project setting up NZ's best rehabilitation centre.

We discuss managements styles and his approach to leadership, some of the major challenges the health sector faces in future. and much more.

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Steve Stannard is a research academic and Professor in Exercise Physiology at the School of Sport and Exercise at Massey University. He has a PhD Human Applied Physiology and also a Masters of Nutritional Science, both from the University of Sydney.

He conducts research at the interface of exercise science and human nutrition, and his work on fasting, endurance training, and nutritional impact on muscle recovery, is well regarded.

Prof. Stannard is often sought by the media for public comment about issues relating to sports nutrition, and in particular, supplements in sport.

In his younger years, Prof. Stannard represented Australia as a road-racing cyclist. Steve is still a keen Masters competitor in bicycle racing, but mainly in the wake of his children; his daughter recently represented NZ in the World Elite Triathlon Championships, and his oldest son represented NZ at the World Road Cycling Championships, both held in the USA.

In this episode Dr Stannard cover a large number of sports nutrition and performance related areas from his cutting edge research. 

The difference between how men and women burn fat

What the liver does and how you can train your liver to get "fitter" and to act as a better resevoir of energy when you are performing your sport.

The effects of starvation on elite endurance athletes

How endurance athletes use fat differently and how training your body not only train the muscle and cardio systems but also the efficiency of how you burn fat and how you can keep exercising even when you no food for 3 or 4 days. 

How important the brain is to your sports performance and how it effects the body. 

and much much more. 

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Sir John Kirwan KNZM MBE is a New Zealand rugby union coach and former player of both rugby union and rugby league.

He scored 35 tries in 63 tests for New Zealand, making him one of the highest try scorers in international rugby union history, and was part of the New Zealand team that won the first Rugby World Cup in 1987. He also played rugby league for the Auckland Warriors in their first two seasons. He is the former head coach of the Blues in Super Rugby, and the Japan and Italy national teams.

In recent years, he has spoken openly about his battles with depression and been honoured for his services to mental health.

He has written two books on depression and mental health the first "All Blacks don't cry" details his journey through depression to wellness, offering help and tools for those suffering from this debilitating illness and the second "Stand by me" was written for parents of teenagers facing mental illness issues.

Kirwan is married to Fiorella, Lady Kirwan, with three children Francesca, Niko and Luca. Kirwan speaks fluent Italian and good Japanese, a result of a playing career in Italy and coaching career in Japan.

On the show he talks with Lisa about some of the tools he uses to stay, how we need to help our athletes transition out of the sport and back into life at the end of their careers, about what greatness is to him and how to deal with failure in life and much more.

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Meet Annie Doyle, a Sydney-based, 56 year old dedicated old mother of two. Working hard as a Chief Financial Officer for a large disability organisation she somehow finds the time to also be a mountaineering machine who is on a mission to become the first Maori woman to climb the Seven Summits (The highest mountain on every continent and well regarded of as the Holy Grail of mountaineering)
She’s 6/7ths of the way there. Her transcontinental summit quest started when she reached the top of our very own Mt. Kosciuszko in 2005 and then Tanzania’s Mt. Kilimanjaro the same year, followed by Mt. Elbrus in Russia in 2006, Mt. Aconcagua in Argentina in 2007 and both Mt. McKinley in Alaska in 2009and Vinson Massif in Antarctica in 2013. Only Everest awaits her. Unfortunately luck hasn’t been on her side…yet.
In 2012 she positioned for her first attempt but bad weather made the Khumbu Icefall too dangerous, again she made another attempt in 2014 but the mountain closed following a tragic icefall avalanche that killed 16 Sherpas.
In April this year, she was readying for her 3rd attempt, this time from the Tibetan side, but the sheer devastation of the catastrophic Nepalese Earthquake once again closed the mountain and rocked the climbing community to its core with the loss of so many lives. Annie’s 7th summit awaits another season.

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Dean Karnazes is the most well known ultra marathon runner on the planet. He has written 4 books and is a New York Times bestselling author.

He was named by mens health magazine as the fittest man on the planet and by time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people on the planet.
His running exploits are too many to even list but some of the highlights include running the Badwater ultra-marathon 10 times. Running 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days (about which a book was written), he was the winner of the racing the planet 4 desert series, has run 350 miles non stop (i.e. going without sleep) and has done 10 x 200 mile races. He has been featured on The late show with David Letterman, on 60 minutes CBS news, CNN, ESPN and has been on the cover of Runners World. He is a US ambassador using his running talent to spread a unifying message around the world. He is an accomplished businessman and holds business and science degrees and has done post graduate work at Stanford university and has worked with a number of fortune 500 companies. He is uniquely positioned to demonstrate how the lessons from sport can be applied to business.

He is a philanthropist and has raised large amounts of money for various charities and has inspired literally hundreds of thousands of people to their feet.

His latest book is highlighted in this podcast. "The Road to Sparta" details his journey to retrace the footsteps of his ancestral countryman Pheidipides of Greece who ran 153 miles from Athens to Sparta in 490 BC to recruit the Spartans into the battle the Athenians were waging again the invading Persians.
The story tells of this history but also his journey back to his roots, being of Greek descent and follows his race doing the Spartathlon the grueling modern day ultra marathon 153 miles that has to be completed in under 36 hours and goes from Athens to Sparta.

Host Lisa Tamati has run alongside Dean during ultra marathons and is uniquely qualified to interview this legendary athlete.

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Ultra Athlete, Author and Coach Lisa Tamati takes you through: How to get over a bad run.
How to deal with a bad run

We all have then, find them confidence destroying and depressing, but here are some tips to forget it quickly and get on with your next happy, flowing, exciting, uplifting run…

  1. We are not robots. Daily stresses, hormones, infections, stress, lack of sleep, exhaustion, dehydration, low blood sugars, mineral deficiencies, nutrient deficiencies and more can all cause you to have a bad run. Don't expect to be at the top of your game everyday.
    Even if your truing calendar tells you you have a big run planned for the day or an intensive workout sometimes you need to be flexible or just find a way through it.
    Don't over think it.

  2. There are real benefits to getting through a bad run and not giving up. It makes you mentally tougher and lets face it that is our most important attribute as runners. It teaches you to keep going when the going is tough and when you push through you get that little bit harder psychologically.Learning to deal with pain or sluggishness is exactly what you will have to do during a ultra marathon or a long distance race or short races run at speed for that matter. So if its been a hell run think "It was tough but I go through, strength comes from struggle .. so my training today was about honing my mental strength and that is the most valuable form of training of them all."

  3. Appreciate it when you have a good run. Having a bad day out not he road or on the trails make you appreciate those wonderful times when its flow where everything comes together. Appreciation and enjoyment when its good is what comes out of having the odd bad run.

  4. Analyse - Why was your run bad? Are you overtrained? Perhaps you are coming down with something? Are you dehydrated, hungry or perhaps overstressed at work or home. Is there something you can change or improve to stop it happening next time.

  5. Don't let it put you off running. Beginners especially can be totally put off by a bad run and think they have gone backwards. Perhaps there first few runs or weeks went great and they could see improvements then a whammy out of the blue and they think it was all for nothing that all that past success was for nothing.. "no its just a bad day"

  6. Don't think you have lost your fitness because the run went bad or was harder than usual. Your fitness doesn't just up and go like that. Something was just not on target today. Just see it for what it is and don't overdramatise it and get back out there again soon. Don't let that bad run put you off for days thinking the next one will be the same.

  7. Do your overtraining checklist. Check your morning resting pulse is it higher than usual, do you feel generally not good, lethargic, exhausted, grumpy, hormonal, have you been overdoing the training or had high levels of stress. Rest for a bit and recover if you have. Improvement comes from the recovery part of your programme. Training actually tears the body down remember, its the quality recovery and rest is where the improvement comes. Your training pogramme is not only the actual running part but the recovery as well.

  8. Forget it as quickly as possible. Move on. Mentally tick it off and get on with the job of the next run or training session. Perhaps change something for a day or two. Go for a swim or cycle instead, an aerobics class perhaps or pilates. Challenge your body in a different way and see if it comes right.

I just came back from a limit end aerobic speed session (15 min warm up jog, then 20 minutes at running at a level when I am getting out of breath, then 15 warm down) it was horrid and every minute of the speed work was hell. My lungs just wouldn't work and my legs felt like lead. Last weeks limit end session was empowering, this weeks was a painful experience but thats ok.. tomorrow will be different.

www.lisatamati.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Nicola McCloy is an Auckland -based writer and editor who hails from Southland. After gaining a degree in Political Studies from Otago University before embarking on a career in corporate communications. After several years in Wellington, and time living in London, she moved back to Auckland to pursue a career in publishing. Following on from the publication of her first book, New Zealand Disasters in 2004, she was written 15 books, specialising in New Zealand social history. She also works as a ghost writer.

When she's not writing or fixing other people's words, Nic spends a lot of time in the water, having rediscovered her love of open water swimming in 2012. Since then, she's competed in most of New Zealand's big ocean and river swims as well as Samoa Swim Series (four times!) She also manages to fit in a bit of trail running - with her major achievement being a finish in the 50-km event at the Great Naseby Water Race in 2014.

www.lisatamati.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Naresh Kumar, a boy who grew up in severe poverty in India and who grew up to become a software engineer and adventurer. Defying all the odds. Recently Naresh completed in just 89 days The infamous Te Araroa Trail. Here he tells us about his early years, the desperate life he managed to escape and fulfilling his career ambitions and now living free as an adventurer. Inspiring and educational.

www.lisastamati.co.nz    *The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.*

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Christopher (Tofe) Evans is a 25 year old endurance athlete from Australia and he is one half of a crazy duo (the other Anthony Sedman) who are known as the Wounded pelicans. These two crazy young people set it in their minds last year to run 40 major endurance events for Charity.They did that and have now set their sites even higher this year with bigger, even scarier challenges. In this interview I find out what drives Christopher to do what he is doing, who his roles models are, how he gets through the toughest of times and his attitude to being a seeker of wisdom and personal development. He is a remarkably focused young man who is just your average athlete but who is doing anything but average events. His drive, passion and youthful enthusiasm is refreshing and eye opening. The discipline he brings to the projects astounding. To find out more about this very cool duo check out their website www.thewoundedpelicans.com The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Samuel was born with a severe genetic bone disorder - has had countless broken bones, cannot walk, is 3 feet tall ........ and his story will change your life !

‘There is always a way’ to get things done. It may not be conventional but, ‘there is always a way’.. This is the creed of Samuel Gibson. Samuel is a speaker, business entrepreneur and adventurer. His quest for testing his boundaries has taken him to many parts of the word and enabled him to change his and other people's lives in the process. His amazing story has been documented on New Zealand television, design magazines and even in a children’s book, winning him the coveted "Attitude Enterprise Award" along the way.

Samuel was less than five minutes old when both his legs were broken by a well-meaning midwife. Sam was born with a genetic bone condition called Osteogenesis Imperfecta, or Brittle Bones. He cannot walk, is 3 feet tall, yet considers himself lucky! His story is one you will never forget.

Growing up in a loving family environment, Samuel just wanted to be like all the other kids. He did what the other kids did even if it meant breaking a bone or two along the way. One thing for sure Samuel was not going to become a statistic. Not going to put his life on hold.

The attitude he developed, the lessons he learnt and the obstacles he had to overcome along the way makes for a story that will make you laugh, make you cry and inspire you.

After a short time on the speaking circuit Samuel is making a huge impact. His story appeals to all audiences, he has addressed project managers, scientists, medical practitioners, corporate leaders, young leaders, service organisations and CEO's.

His life is testimony to his attitude. He is a Husband, Father, successful business entrepreneur and adventurer, but more importantly an example of how to overcome obstacles no matter how great.
Up next is a 300km running/wheeling mission with Lisa Tamati to raise money for another little boy with the same disease.

www.runninghotcoaching.com www.lisatamati.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Mark Inglis personifies guts and courage and a never say die attitude. After losing his lower legs to frost bite after being stuck on Mt Cook for two weeks he went on to be the first double leg amputee to climb Mt Everest as well as Mt Cho Oyu another 8000m peak in the Himalayas. He is also a silver medal winner in cycling at the para olympics, author of 5 books on his adventures and philosophies, business man, wine maker, corporate speaker and motivator. Mark embodies what "Pushing the Limits" show is all about. Someone who has achieved against all odds and is stronger for it. Mark is a leading international motivational speaker, experienced in all forms of presentation from conference keynote addresses and workshops, to entertaining and humorous after dinner talks. He has presented live to audiences as small as five to as big as 1400 and everything in between.

In the last few months Mark has presented in India, Chicago Canada, Boston, New York, Philadephia, Washington DC, Nashville, Singapore, Nepal and of course closer to home in NZ and Australia.

These presentations were to companies and groups that recognise that their staff are one of their greatest assets and increasing their value drives opportunities for the companies to grow!

Over the last 7 years Mark has specialised in Keynote addresses that are based around mountaineering as a metaphor for business and life, utilising his wide experience in the mountains, vineyards and boardrooms. To take that experience one step further he now offers a range of learning programs. www.runninghotcoaching.com www.lisatamati.co.nz

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.

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Darren discovered CrossFit in 2007, during his Masters degree in Exercise Physiology, as he was always researching the latest info on training and nutrition methods. Needless to say, the simple yet effective philosophy had him hooked and 3 months later opened the first CrossFit gym in the country.

As the sport of CrossFit grew, Darren competed at the Regionals from 2009-2012 as an individual, the CrossFit Games affiliate competition in 2010 and in 2015 qualified in second place for the 40-44yr Masters division of The Reebok CrossFit Games.

Before university and opening CrossFit NZ and Reebok CrossFit 09, Darren spent 6 years working and travelling overseas working for minimum wage as a bartender, bouncer, tour guide, tractor driver, cook and divemaster, and visiting places like Congo, Ethiopia, Yemen and Guatemala; which found him home to dodgy parasites and 10kg underweight, but with an ability to order food in Swahili, Turkish and Arabic.

Now he runs his gyms and coaches people all over the world in fitness and nutrition, while trying to spend as much time as possible on the beach or a mountain bike with his fiance Krista and his dog Baxter.

www.lisatamati.co.nz www.runninghotcoaching.com

The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.