Encountering Silence: Recent Episodes
Cassidy Hall, Kevin Johnson, Carl McColman
Explore the beauty, importance, and vitality of silence, as we explore the spirituality, psychology, and sheer humanity of silence. Subscribe to the podcast through Amazon, Google, or your favorite podcast subscription site. If you enjoy the podcast, please share us with your friends — and please support us through Patreon.
What is the relationship between language and silence? Between words and truth-telling? How can we foster a more truly contemplative relationship with the way we speak to one another? These are the kinds of questions that informed this episode of Encountering Silence, in which Carl, Cassidy and Kevin welcome author and spiritual teacher Marilyn McEntyre for a conversation informed by her mindful writing on topics such as language, peacemaking, and authenticity.
Marilyn McEntyre is an award-winning spiritual writer, speaker, retreat leader, and professor of medical humanities and American literature. She has written and edited over twenty books and has won several teaching awards. McEntyre currently teaches in programs at New College Berkeley, Western Seminary, the Oblate School of Theology, and Westmont College in San Francisco. She lives in Carmichael, California.
Her books include Caring for Words in a Culture of Lies (2nd edition), When Poets Pray, The Mindful Grandparent: the Art of Loving Our Children's Children (with Shirley Showalter), and Word by Word: A Daily Spiritual Practice. Her forthcoming book, Midwinter Light: Meditations for the Long Season will be published by Broadleaf Books in October 2024.
Visit Marilyn on the web at marilynmcentyre.com or connect with her on Facebook at /marilyn.mcentyre.5.
The Encountering Silence team returns with an interview recorded last spring but unreleased until now! Cassidy, Kevin and Carl sat down for a contemplative conversation with Maki Ashe Van Steenwyk (she/they), a queer mystic who is the author of three books and the executive director of the Center for Prophetic Imagination in Minneapolis. Maki Ashe Van Steenwyk
Ashe (formerly writing under the name “Mark”) is the author of A Wolf at the Gate, unKingdom: Repenting of Christianity in America, and That Holy Anarchist: Reflections on Christianity and Anarchism, along with contributing to edited works like Banned Questions About Jesus and Forming Christian Habits in Post-Christendom. Ashe's writing has been published in Sojourners, Geez Magazine, JesusRadicals.com, Leadership Magazine, the Mennonite, and Mennonite World Review. Her work has been featured in the Minneapolis Star Tribute, the Boston Globe, and on CNN.com.
As the former co-producer of the Iconocast, Ashe interviewed Cornel West, James Cone, Bill Ayers, Starhawk, Wazayatawin and many others. These days, Ashe is usually on the other side of the virtual microphone — like with us here on Encountering Silence.
Ashe has a B.S. in Ministry from the University of Northwestern, an M.Div. from Bethel Theological Seminary, and studied Spiritual Direction at the University of St. Catherine’s graduate school. Ashe is currently working on her doctoral dissertation at United Theological Seminary.
The Center for Prophetic Imagination works to subvert the existing social order through deep discernment culminating with creative action. In the tradition of the prophets, we long for a world where all walls of alienation are torn down and we all live justly with one another, with the land, and with the spirit of liberation. In addition to a robust online presence, the Center for Prophetic Imagination offers spiritual direction, formation for spiritual directors with an emphasis on social transformation (in partnership with the Minnesota Institute for Contemplation and Healing), and other programs.
Our conversation explored Ashe's commitment to the intersection of contemplation and justice, her unique perspective on both spirituality and activism as a trans woman, and more.
Visit Ashe online at www.makiashe.com. Visit the Center for Prophetic Imagination's website at www.propheticimagination.org.
Friends, here is the latest episode of the Encountering Silence podcast. This episode features a conversation the Encountering Silence team had last year with Buddhist author Kaira Jewel Lingo, author of We Were Made for These Times: Ten Lessons in Moving through Change, Loss and Disruption.
Kaira Jewel Lingo is a Dharma teacher who has a lifelong interest in blending spirituality and meditation with social justice. Having grown up in an ecumenical Christian community where families practiced a new kind of monasticism and worked with the poor, at the age of twenty-five she entered a Buddhist monastery in the Plum Village tradition and spent fifteen years living as a nun under the guidance of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh.
She received Lamp Transmission from Thich Nhat Hanh and became a Zen teacher in 2007, and is also a teacher in the Vipassana Insight lineage through Spirit Rock Meditation Center. Today she sees her work as a continuation of the Engaged Buddhism developed by Thich Nhat Hanh as well as the work of her parents, inspired by their stories and her dad’s work with Martin Luther King Jr. on desegregating the South.
In addition to writing We Were Made for These Times, she is also the editor of Thich Nhat Hanh’s Planting Seeds: Practicing Mindfulness with Children. Now based in New York, she teaches and leads retreats internationally, provides spiritual mentoring to groups, and interweaves art, play, nature, racial and earth justice, and embodied mindfulness practice in her teaching.
She especially feels called to share the Dharma with Black, Indigenous, and People of Color, as well as activists, educators, youth, artists, and families. Visit kairajewel.com to learn more.
Dr. Joy A. Schroeder, a Lutheran pastor, joins the Encountering Silence team to explore the shadow side of silence — in this case, the silencing of many significants voices in the Christian tradition, of women Bible interpreters.
Dr. Schroeder is a specialist in the history of biblical interpretation. She is professor of church history at Trinity Lutheran Seminary and the Department of Religion and Philosophy at Capital University, Columbus, Ohio. She is the author of Deborah's Daughters: Gender Politics and Biblical Interpretation, Dinah's Lament: The Biblical Legacy of Sexual Violence in Christian Interpretation, and several other books on the history of interpretation of scripture. She is the co-author (with Marion Ann Taylor) of Voices Long Silenced: Women Biblical Interpreters Through the Centuries, which tells the story of the many women who studied and interpreted the Bible over the past two thousand years, but whose stories have remained largely untold.
In Voices Long Silenced, Schroeder and Taylor introduce readers to the notable contributions of female commentators through the centuries. They unearth fascinating accounts of Jewish and Christian women from diverse communities—rabbinic experts, nuns, mothers, mystics, preachers, teachers, suffragists, and household managers—who interpreted Scripture through their writings. The book recounts the struggles and achievements of women who gained access to education and biblical texts. It tells the story of how their interpretive writings were preserved or, all too often, lost. It also explores how, in many cases, women interpreted Scripture differently from the men of their times. Consequently, Voices Long Silenced makes an important, new contribution to biblical reception history.
This book focuses on women's written words and briefly comments on women’s interpretation in media, such as music, visual arts, and textile arts. It includes short, representative excerpts from diverse women’s own writings that demonstrate noteworthy engagement with Scripture. Voices Long Silenced calls on scholars and religious communities to recognize the contributions of women, past and present, who interpreted Scripture, preached, taught, and exercised a wide variety of ministries in churches and synagogues.
Carmen Acevedo Butcher, Ph.D., is renowned for her luminous translation of The Cloud of Unknowing with the Book of Privy Counsel. Her latest book — a new translation of Brother Lawrence's Practice of the Presence — will be published on Tuesday, August 25, 2022. The Encountering Silence team sat down with her recently and spoke about translation, mystical theology, God and pronouns, and of course — silence. Recently Carmen wrote a guest post for Carl McColman's Patheos blog. We're reposting it here for our Encountering Silence Community.
“If the little ship of our soul is still rattled and tossed by winds or by storm, let's wake up the God who's resting there.” Brother Lawrence’s epistolary advice to a nun 340 years ago, from Practice of the Presence, recently “set up shop” in the heart of a dear thirtysomething friend, she said.
I too am thankful for his timeless, calm wisdom in our ongoing global ‘perfect storm.’ For centuries this spiritual classic has fulfilled and transcended its Carmelite tradition. Beloved by people of all faiths, wisdom traditions, and none whatsoever, its heart beats with a returning—in micro-moments of meditation—to God, Kindness, Love, True Self, or however you conceive of Mystery.
Its author is easy on the heart too. As I translated his work from French into English, a sense of his brokenness, genuine kindness, ordinary life, and suffering humanity emerged. Because the friar developed his prayer practiceinstinctively for his own healing while experiencing profound anxiety, his book rings with equally profound authenticity.
Born Nicolas Herman in 1614 into the Third Estate of peasants, wage laborers, and bourgeoisie, he had no formal education and no advantages. Around 20 he was severely injured in the leg during the Thirty Years’ War. Leaving the military a disabled veteran, he limped in pain the rest of his long life, spending his last two years unable to walk.
Brother Lawrence shared with his good friend the priest Joseph of Beaufort that he’d also suffered terrible psychological pain. During a dark night of the soul from twenty-six to thirty-six: “He often relived in his mind the dangers of his days in military service, the emptiness and corruption of the times,” and meditated on “the disorders of his youth,” causing him “horror.”
His prayer practice first appealed to me because it made visible my earliest contemplative experiences in nature. There something in me yet inchoate kept me company kindly, out among the red-tailed hawks and tall evergreen pines of red-earthed north Georgia, wandering hours alone in search of peace, trying to process childhood trauma.
Every 4am of the first pandemic summer I got up to translate the friar’s work. Seeing the sun in with my new friend, I was drawn to this down-to-earth mystic’s exceptionally calming presence. Grieving with the ever-rising deaths non-stop narrated in global and local news and in conversations with friends who lost family, I was also teaching full-time on Zoom as I translated, trying to help my students who had catastrophic grief, deaths of loved ones, housing insecurities, food precarities, job losses, or were juggling multiple jobs and school, and other stresses.
Our cataclysmic times echo with Brother Lawrence’s century of plague, authoritarianism, inequities, wars, climate crisis, and famine. After leaving the military, the friar knew failure as a hermit, then as a Paris footman, where he says he felt like “a clumsy oaf who broke everything.”
Brother Lawrence in the kitchen; anonymous engraving from ca. 1900 (public domain)
He decided to enter the monastery in Paris in the summer of 1640 as a lay brother. Taking the name Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, he was assigned to the kitchen. He had “the strongest natural aversion” to scullery duties, but they lasted forty years. Gradually he learned to do even these “with the greatest love possible.” When standing became too much, he was reassigned to the monastery sandal shop, repairing his 100 or so brothers’ sandals.
Over time Brother Lawrence learned to pray constantly. He called it “the practice of the presence.” An “easy” and “strengthening” form of micro-prayer done on the fly, this “brief lifting up of the heart” is a simple Love-homecoming, done at any time, as often as a person can, he says.
The friar did this meditative returning-to-Love even when busiest in the kitchen flipping omelettes. Gradually, his presence prayer grew the spiritual muscles of his calmness to experience deep healing. He lived in and from an inner peace sustaining him through his last forty years, up to his death on February 12, 1691.
Contemplative seekers today find the friar’s practice of the presence helpful because it’s portable, easy-to-do, healing, and cultivates our self-compassion and community. It’s evergreen.
A moment of practicing the presence might begin with anything, an injury, a joy, a task, a cup of tea or coffee, morning sun through a window, a nagging worry, or any uncontrollable aspect of our human life. There we turn to Love, check in, then come back to the quotidian—open email, wash a dish, drive to work. Repeating this gentle returning develops our self-kindness, and empowers anyone to make a compassionate difference in our world.
Since being-good-at-it is not the point of the friar’s practice, its unconditional-love foundation makes it especially healthy in our capitalistically transactional world. He says Love always called him back when he forgot, adding: “[W]e must not get discouraged when we forget it, for any good habit is only formed with difficulty, but when it is formed, we will find contentment in all we do.” This meditative habit directly connects a person with divinity, as he reminds: “If the will can in any way understand God, it can only be through love.”
His centering on God as love is why I call him the friar d’amour.
As Joseph shares, the friar’s practice of the presence made him “gentle” during a harsh time very like our own: “Brother Lawrence was a warm, welcoming person. He gave others confidence. . . . [Y]ou felt you could tell him anything. You knew you’d found a friend.”
Friendship and peace are what this book offers. My translation of Practice of the Presence gives a wide range of readers access for the first time to the complete Brother Lawrence, who models developing calmness like a muscle.
The kindest teacher, Brother Lawrence reassures all: “In the middle of your tasks you can comfort yourself with Love as often as you can. . . . Everyone is capable of these familiar conversations with God.”
“Let’s begin.”
Carmen Acevedo Butcher[/caption]Carmen Acevedo Butcher, Ph.D., is an author, teacher, poet, and an award-winning translator of spiritual texts. Her dynamic work has garnered interest from various media, including the BBC and NPR’s Morning Edition. A Carnegie Foundation Professor of the Year and Fulbright Senior Lecturer, Acevedo Butcher’s work in translation has made accessible works by such writers as The Cloud's Anonymous, Hildegard of Bingen, and Julian of Norwich. Her revolutionary translation of Brother Lawrence’s Practice of the Presencereleases August 2022 from Broadleaf Books. She currently teaches full-time at the University of California, Berkeley, in the College Writing Programs.
The Encountering Silence co-hosts (Cassidy Hall, Kevin Johnson and Carl McColman) recently spoke with Servite Sister Joyce Rupp, on the occasion of the publication of her most recent book, Return to the Root: Reflections on the Inner Life.Joyce Rupp is well known for her work as a writer, international retreat leader, and conference speaker. She is the author of numerous bestselling books, including Praying Our Goodbyes, Open the Door, and Fragments of Your Ancient Name. Some of her books, like Fly While You Still Have Wings have won awards from the Catholic Press Association. In the words of Jesuit author James Martin, “Joyce Rupp is one of the best Christian spiritual guides writing today.”
You can learn more about Joyce Rupp by visiting her website, www.joycerupp.com — or check out some of her many books:
- Return to the Root: Reflections on the Inner Life
- Boundless Compassion: Creating a Way of Life
- Praying Our Goodbyes
- May I Walk You Home?
- Open the Door
- The Cup of Our Life
- Fragments of Your Ancient Name
- The Circle of Life: The Heart’s Journey Through the Seasons
- Fly While You Still Have Wings
- Essential Writings of Joyce Rupp (Modern Spiritual Masters Series)
This is episode number 140 of Encountering Silence. Subscribe to this podcast from your favorite podcast subscription service, and check out previous episodes where we have interviewed friends like Richard Rohr, Cynthia Bourgeault, Lerita Coleman Brown, Parker Palmer, Barbara Holmes, Barbara Brown Taylor, Martin Laird, and many others. Click here to visit the podcast’s website.
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The Reverend Sarah Lund returns to Encountering Silence to share with us insights from her latest book, "Blessed Youth."
A conversation with noted author and activist Jacqui Lewis to celebrate the publication of "Fierce Love."
A conversation with award-winning poet and children's author Nikki Grimes.
A conversation with contemplative author Dr. Amy Frykholm, whose books include "Wild Woman" and "Julian of Norwich: A Contemplative Biography."
Interview with contemplative scholar Dr. Kevin Quashie (Brown University).
A conversation with spiritual director and author Maisie Sparks (Holy Shakespeare, Christmas Quiet).
A conversation with visionary contemplative author Dr. Beverly Lanzetta, author of "A New Silence."
Sophfronia Scott speaks to Encountering Silence about her latest book, in which she explores her interest in the Trappist monk Thomas Merton.
Part Two of Our Episode with New York Times bestselling author Barbara Brown Taylor, author of "When God is Silent" and many other books.
Part one of our two-part conversation with New York Times bestselling author Barbara Brown Taylor.
In today's episode of Encountering Silence, we visit co-host Cassidy Hall's new podcast, Contemplating Now: A Podcast Exploring the Intersection of Contemplation and Social Justice. Join us as we listen to wisdom from previous Encountering Silence guest, Therese Taylor-Stinson: spiritual director, author, and ordained deacon and elder in the Presbyterian Church (PCUSA).
A collection of ambient field recordings from birds to surf to wind. Listen to how subtle nature is, and listen for the silence in the sound.
The conclusion of our conversation with Pastor Sarah Griffith Lund.
Our good friend Patrick Shen returns to tell us about his latest project, "The Dawn Chorus."
The conclusion of our conversation with writer Kaya Oakes.
The first part of our two-part conversation with author Kaya Oakes.
The conclusion of our conversation with Zenju Earthlyn Manuel, Zen priest, author, and poet.
Zenju Earthlyn Manuel, Zen priest, author, and poet, joins us for this first part of a two-part conversation.
Part one of a two-part interview with Womanist theologian Emilie M. Townes.
The first part of our conversation with Marie Howe, former poet laureate of New York.
Cynthia Bourgeault returns to Encountering Silence to discuss her new book, Eye of the Heart. Part one of a two-part interview.
A conversation with New York Times bestselling author Rick Hanson, PhD.
We conclude our conversation with returning guest, author/biographer/peacemaker Jim Forest.
Part 1 of our conversation with returning guest Jim Forest: noted author, biographer, peacemaker, and friend.
Brother Paul Quenon, OCSO, concludes his conversation with us recorded during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Br. Paul Quenon, OCSO, Trappist monk, poet, and photographerm, returns to share his humble, joyful wisdom.
Part one of our conversation with Dr. Leah Gunning Francis, author of "Ferguson and Faith."
Sarah Griffith Lund shares her expertise on mental health issues concerning the clergy. First of two parts.
Kaitlin B. Curtice is the author of Native: Identity, Belonging, and Rediscovering God. Part 1 of a 2-part interview.
Dr. Lerita Coleman Brown returns to the podcast to share more wisdom about Howard Thurman.
Author Kerry Connelly discusses the silence embedded in white privilege and systemic racism. First of two parts.
Our returning guest, Kathleen Norris, is an award-winning poet, writer, and author of numerous books.
Patrick Shen returns to the podcast to talk about Earth Day, filmaking, and the COVID-19 pandemic.
Christine Valters Paintner, abbess for Abbey of the Arts, returns to Encountering Silence.
This week's episode features just Cassidy, Kevin and Carl, reflecting on this extraordinary moment we find ourselves in.
Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet, theologian, and conflict mediator, who brings interests in language, violence and religion to his work.
The conclusion of our conversation with harpist and thanatologist Therese Schroeder-Sheker.
The first part of our deeply contemplative conversation with harpist and thanatologist Therese Schroeder-Sheker.
Quaker author J. Brent Bill joins us for a conversation about silence and other essential elements of life.
Our conversation with Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza, the author of Activist Theology, concludes this week.
Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza, the author of Activist Theology, joins our conversation this week.
This week marks the two-year anniversary of our first episode. Join us as we celebrate!
If you are new to the idea of intentional silence, where do you begin? Here are our thoughts on this topic.
The Rev. Dr. Walter Brueggemann is widely regarded as one of the world's leading Christian interpreters of the Old Testament.
Our conversation with the Rev. Adam Bucko concludes in this second part of a two-part interview.
Fr. Adam Bucko directs the Center for the Spiritual Imagination at the Episcopal Cathedral of the Incarnation in Garden City, NY.
The conclusion of our conversation continues with historian/archivist Gabrielle Earnshaw.
Gabrielle Earnshaw is the founding archivist of the Henri Nouwen Archives in Toronto, Canada.
Bushi Yamato Damashii is the founder of Sangha Bodhi Christo (a Buddhist-Christian student and practice community), and directs the Thomasville Buddhist Center in Thomasville, NC.
Here is the second part of our conversation with Anglican priest Philip Roderick, founder and patron of the Quiet Garden Movement, of Contemplative Fire and of Hidden Houses of Prayer.
Philip Roderick, a priest of the Church of England, is the founder and a patron of the Quiet Garden Movement, of Contemplative Fire and of Hidden Houses of Prayer.
Our conversation with Zen roshi and Catholic spiritual director Ruben L. F. Habito concludes.
Part one of a conversation with Ruben Habito, who is both a Zen roshi and a Catholic spiritual director.
Sr. Kathleen P. Deignan, C.N.D. is an Irish-American theologian, author, and sacred song writer.
Our conversation with musician, songwriter/poet, and Quaker Carrie Newcomer concludes this week.
Acclaimed folk musician and educator Carrie Newcomer helps us to explore the relationship between silence and music.
A conversation to follow up on our previous episode, featuring the teaching wisdom of James Finley.
Contemplative author, teacher, retreat leader, and psychologist James Finley returns to Encountering Silence.
The conclusion of our two-part conversation with author and spiritual director Therese Taylor-Stinson.
Therese Taylor-Stinson, the founder of the Spiritual Directors of Color Network, explores the intersection of contemplation and the struggle for justice.
Diving deep into silence with contemplative author Martin Laird. First of a three-part interview.
Benedictine Sister (and interfaith activist) Mary Margaret Funk joins us from her convent in Indiana.
Shirley Hershey Showalter invites us into the silence of a traditional Mennonite upbringing.
"Doesn't everything die at last, and too soon?" asks Mary Oliver, who recently died at the age of 83.
Andō — lay monastic, zen poet, and contemplative — joins us for a conversation rich with silence.
Richard Rohr sat down with Cassidy Hall in Chicago last month to record this informal conversation.
Our final episode of 2018, a time to reflect on our conversation about silence thus far.
Dr. Jacqueline Bussie is the author of Love Without Limits: Jesus' Radical Vision for Love with No Exceptions.
Christine Valters Paintner explores silence, contemplation, creativity, and living as a monk in the real world.
British writer and educator Dr. Helen E. Lees explores topics such as education, silence and art.
Allison M. Sullivan, author of "Rock Paper Scissors" explores the intersection of silence and faith with us.
Parker J. Palmer's lifetime of wisdom concerning silence and aging (part one of a two-part interview).
Cassidy Hall speaks with Trappist poet, photographer, and memoirist Br. Paul Quenon, OCSO.
Summer brings its own challenges and opportunities to bear on the human need for silence.
Anthropologist Paula Pryce describes her ethnographic research into the Christian contemplative community.
Kenneth Leong, reflects on how silence takes us beyond the limitations of doctrine, dogma, or religious culture.
A Conversation with Barbara A. Holmes, author of "Joy Unspeakable: Contemplative Practices of the Black Church."
After six months, Cassidy, Kevin and Carl reflect on the lessons and insight this podcast has provided.
Mirabai Starr muses on the profound relationship between silence, stillness and mystical love.
Author Jessica Mesman Griffith talks about silence, creativity, fear, doubt, death, and missing voices.
Kurt Johnson talks to us about silence, the human body, movement, exercise, wellness and performance.
Busy-ness seems to be a problem must working adults struggle with. How can silence help us?
Jim Forest's humility and sincerity reveal much about listening, truly seeing, and deeply caring for each other.
Richard Rohr talks with us about silence, spirituality, contemplation, action, and why discernment matters.
We love poetry — since poetry seems to quickly bring the attentive reader to the threshold of silence.
Patrick Shen joins us again to discuss "Notes on Silence" which he co-wrote and co-edited with Cassidy Hall.
Exploring the role that silence plays in mysticism, in the light of Carl's book "The Little Book of Christian Mysticism."
Meet Brother Elias Marechal — Trappist monk, contemplative, and the author of "Tears of an Innocent God."
Cassidy, Kevin and Carl ponder the question of how silence impacts and informs the cadences of life.
New York Times bestselling author Fr. James Martin, SJ looks at silence in the light of Ignatian spirituality.
Kevin, Cassidy and Carl reflect on the gifts and the challenges that silence brings to the human need for refuge.
Cassidy Hall goes to the monastery to inverview Benedictine monk Fr. Stephanos Pedrano, OSB.
Ash Wednesday and Valentine's Day each offer their own doorway into the riches of silence.
Professor Lerita Coleman Brown describes Howard Thurman's rich and deeply silent spirituality.
To be human is to sometimes be in conflict. Silence's relationship with conflict is multifaceted.
Our first conversation with a special guest! Joining us is Patrick Shen, the director of "In Pursuit of Silence."
Kevin, Cassidy and Carl talk about the people who have inspired us with their relationship to silence.
Unless you are an absolute hermit, other people factor in your life — and relationships can be noisy indeed.
The Holiday Season can be joyful and/or stressful—a time when silence remains as important as ever.
We continue our conversation about silence by considering silence in the teen/young adult years.
Meet Kevin Johnson, Cassidy Hall, and Carl McColman. We are the hosts and co-creators of Encountering Silence.