Webserial authors Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales talk about the craft of writing stories that make sense, and examine writing tropes and media through the lens of the Rational and Rationalist genres.
Intro and Outro music is G.A.T.O. Must Be Respected, by Tim Yarbrough
To contact us, please email daystar721@gmail.com Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Short episode where Daystar and Alexander speak with Velorien, one of the writers of Marked for Death, to discuss the impact of reader feedback in serial fiction.
Hosted by Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales.With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the role of money and class in fiction, and how it can affect, or fail to affect, their decisions and interactions.
Hosted by Daystar Eld and Alexander WalesWith thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/rationally-writing/support
Alex and I attended a writing retreat with some other authors in the rationality community, and while there decided to host an impromptu episode on subverting expectations, joined (primarily) by our Nebula nominated friend, Jamie Wahls. All I had to record with was my laptop, so apologies for the sound quality!
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Links:
http://jamiewahls.com/
--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/rationally-writing/support
Today we're joined once again by Duncan Sabien, aka TK17, to discuss his incredible rationalfic, Animorphs: The Reckoning. It was recorded shortly after the story finished and includes questions on not just his writing process, but the various decisions that went into changes made from canon, so spoilers ahead!
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Links:
Duncan's "How the MTG Color Wheel Explains Humanity"
Animorphs: The Reckoning AMA
Duncan's Previous Guest Appearance
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Today we discuss Alexander's original serial fiction, Worth the Candle, and the various decisions and aspects of the story that came up throughout the writing process.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Daystar and Alexander discuss gender in fiction, and how it cultural gender norms or deviances can inform not just character personalities but can be an interesting part of world building.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Daystar and Alexander discuss using different species or "races" in fiction, and how it informs characters and is addressed by different types of stories.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Daystar and Alexander discuss race in fiction, or rather, species, and how it informs characters and is addressed by different types of stories.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Timestamps
03:38 Race as a Social Construct
14:20 Approaches to Race in Fiction
22:30 Black Superman
32:55 How Race Informs Character
48:01 Literal Racism
56:48 Research
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Daystar and Alexander discuss politics as a plot device, and and political fiction as a genre.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Timestamps:
00:35 What is a political plot?
8:58 Main types of political plot structures
24:00 Political 5 Man Band
37:05 Challenges
Links:
Rules for Rulers
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Daystar and Alexander discuss irrational or non-rational fiction.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Timestamps
00:35 "Rational" vs "Irrational"
10:04 How do you distinguish?
18:50 Conversations around the difference
33:05 Audience Mindset
48:18 Writing non-rational fiction
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support
Daystar and Alexander discuss horror in fiction, and the unique challenges and opportunities that come with rational horror.
Co-hosted by Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Timestamps
0:37 What Do You Find Scary in Fiction?
7:42 Rational Horror
22:50 Horror vs Thriller
31:00 Strengths of Prose Horror
Links
Hereditary
It Follows
Dr. Who S4E11 - Midnight
Cordyceps
Ginny Weasley and The Sealed Intelligence
Antimemetics
In the Mouth of Madness
John Dies at the End
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Daystar and Alexander discuss dropped threads and side plots in stories, what tends to lead to them and how to manage them as you go.
Timestamps
2:34 Serial Fiction
9:32 What Ends Up on the Page
14:55 Side Plots
17:10 Serials
21:25 Why Threads Get Dropped
27:30 Story Shifts
37:30 Our Dropped Threads
44:28 Bonus Dropped Threads
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Daystar and Alexander discuss character flaws; what makes for good ones, how to avoid Mary Sues, and why some flaws show up so often compared to others.
Timestamps
0:35 Flaws As Conflict Generators
5:53 Mary Sues
15:23 Brought Low
23:14 Most Common Flaws
36:02 Rarest Flaws
Twig by Wildbow
The Erogamer by Groon the Walker
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the reasons authors abandon stories before they're finished, whether they want to or not.
Hosted by Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales
With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected
Time Stamps
1:26 Abandonment vs Hiatus
6:16 Different reasons for Abandoning
17:10 Alex's List
25:55 Managing Burnout
39:37 Other Authors
48:21 Author Trust
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Daystar and Alexander discuss Ideological Turing Tests; what they are, why they're important in fiction, and how to try to pass them as best you can.
Timestamps:
0:34 Turing Tests
6:15 Avoiding Caricatures Isn't Enough
10:14 Passing ITT
25:48 Frames
37:53 Personal Challenges
47:11 Presentation
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Daystar and Alexander discuss romance in fiction, particularly in finding meaningful romantic conflicts as either the major plot, or as a subplot in a broader story.
Timestamps:
7:21 Body Language and Chemistry
14:00 Source of Romantic conflict
21:43 Troubled vs Doomed
30:20 Extreme Romantic Contexts
36:29 Compatibility
43:06 Conflict from Change
50:38 New and Ongoing Conflicts
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the value and pitfalls of using time skips, long and short.
Timestamps:
1:13 The Two Axes
11:51 Rules for Timeskips
25:27 Relationships
42:13 Extremely Long Timeskips
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Bonus bit of conversation from Episode 46.
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the common necessities of research for writing fiction.
0:30 A Stable of Experts
12:49 Inspirational Research
19:15 Spot Research
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Daystar and Alexander are joined by professional game writer Kuiper to discuss writing as a skill, or rather a set of skills, and the ways people can improve them.
Timestamps:
1:19 Writing as a skill
21:03 What improves writing?
24:20 Don't grow attached to your ideas
32:45 Skilling up one at a time
45:36 Sticking with or abandoning
50:25 Other ways to improve writing.
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Special guest Erratic Errata joins Daystar and Alexander to discuss more aspects of world building, particularly in his serial A Practical Guide to Evil.
1:04 Planet of Hats
11:31 Societal Axioms
19:30 Reconstructing Tropes
25:56 Playing with Narrative
35:06 Worldbuilding Differences
43:38 Free Will and Deities
49:39 Video game inspiration
55:15 A Practical Guide to Evil Q&A
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Daystar and Alexander discuss reader feedback, and taking criticism constructively.
Timestamps:
2:02 Paretto's Principle
6:30 Trends and Spikes
19:50 Typos vs Style
26:56 Continuity
29:30 Actionable
37:49 Deep Criticism
45:50 Spoilery feedback
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Special guest CthulhuRaeJepsen joins the podcast to discuss pseudonyms, and his story Worth the Candle.
Timestamps:
2:19 Writing Under Pseudonym
7:52 Worth the Candle
17:07 Spoiler Talk up to Ch. 84
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Daystar and Alexander discuss worldbuilding, and why considering second-order effects is so important to making it rational, and can help in finding or fleshing out good plots.
2:50 Battle School concept
6:46 Inadequate Equilibria As Story Elements
22:55 Shadows of the Limelight
28:22 Consequence of the Consequence
37:20 Aesop Exacerbation
41:14 Confronting Civilizational Inadequacy
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Daystar and Alexander review the movie The Prestige, and explore what made it such a well constructed, perhaps even rational, work of fiction.
Timestamps
2:24 Summary + Was it Rational?
16:30 Foreshadowing
21:34 Clashing Ideologies
25:22 Noticing Confusion
30:25 Magic and Storytelling
45:40 Repeat Viewings
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Daystar and Alexander discuss children in fiction, including what makes them realistic and why reactions to them can vary so widely.
Timestamps
0:31 Advantages of child protagonists
4:43 "Children don't act like that."
16:00 Keeping smart/mature children children
20:37 Evergreen methods
26:40 Predictive Processing and "Wonder"
34:33 In Pokemon: ToOS
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the unique aspects of the various mediums of prose fiction, and how new technologies introduce new opportunities and challenges.
Timestamps
5:03 Technological limitations
11:01 Conventions
16:45 New Media
19:27 Music
24:45 Subjectivity
31:45 Mediumception
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Daystar and Alexander discuss how to plan out and navigate different power dynamics to keep your stories engaging.
Time Stamps
0:42 Power in Fiction
3:46 World vs Protagonist vs Antagonist
11:14 New Dimsensions vs Power Creep
14:34 Rationalist Fiction
22:25 Power Differential on a Different Axis
32:55 Powers as Part of Identities
37:01 Protagonist vs Antagonist
47:58 Power in Romance stories
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Daystar and Alexander explore brainstorming, and how trope lists, patterns, and symmetry can be used to come up with new takes on old ideas.
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Daystar and Alexander explore how to "break the story" when outlining its plot and character arcs.
Time Stamps:
00:49 What is Breaking the Story?
5:12 Example
13:38 Character Arcs
28:40 Plot and Endings
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Daystar and Alexander review Alex's latest NaNoWriMo book, The Dark Wizard Of Donkerk.
Time Stamps:
1:12 Magic Systems
9:18 The Twist
15:53 Spirit Magic
20:47 Potential Sequel
25:17 Plot Threads
28:33 Villain
31:49 The Prophecy
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Daystar and Alexander review some of each other's writing, starting with Pokemon: The Origin of Species
3:30 Planning the story
8:36 Present Tense
10:15 Viewpoints
16:39 Goals/Defeats
23:41 Cycles
28:24 Interludes
34:55 Criticisms
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Daystar and Alexander are joined by special guest Duncan Sabien (TK17) to discuss multiple perspectives in fiction, including common pitfalls and benefits.
1:30 Archetypes vs Whole Characters
5:34 Choosing Who Gets what Scene
14:45 Shifting Focus and Disorientation
25:06 Different Character Dialogue
35:30 Differentiating Characters
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Daystar and Alexander discuss action scenes and how to ensure they're engaging and meaningful.
Timestamps:
1:23 Action Scenes in Different Mediums
5:38 What Makes a Good Action Scene
11:22 Avoiding Repetition
17:01 Rational Action Scenes
20:07 Pacing and Flow
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Daystar and Alexander discuss literary fiction, its values and failure modes, and its similarities and differences from rational fiction.
01:20 What Qualifies as Literary Fiction?
15:06 Pretentiousness
25: 03 Literary Fiction and Rational Fiction
35:50 Writing Literary Fiction
45:43 Recommendations
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Daystar and Alexander discusses the value of new settings opposed to using an established one, and the idea of others using their own stories and ideas.
01:24 Taking Ideas vs Fanfic
7:17 Stealing Mechanics
11:33 The value of something new
19:36 Taking our ideas
27:09 Guardian
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Daystar and Alexander discuss creative appropriation, aka "stealing," and the philosophy and benefits behind it.
01:03 How to not be original
11:10 Adding something new
16:01 Stealing details
22:10 The argument against copywrite
28:38 Artistic distinction for using
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Daystar and Alexander explore the differences between good description and bad description, and analyze examples of descriptions from novels.
Timestamps:
01:16 Why is description important?
8:53 What is good description?
14:40 When to put the description?
22:12 Alexander's notable examples
30:00 Daystar's notable examples
Advertisement:
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Daystar and Alexander explore the differences between GMing a tabletop RPG and writing a story.
01:04 Gaming creds
05:10 Starting a story vs an RPG.
15:50 Railroading
28:36 Players as Characters
35:23 Exposition
37:51 Source Books
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Daystar and Alexander explore what makes endings satisfying, effective, or just annoying.
2:41 What makes endings satisfying?
15:23 Alternate endings
18:38 Bad endings
25:56 Ambiguity in endings
32:07 Downer endings
37:58 Endings we've enjoyed
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the beginnings of stories, and what goes into an effective or boring start.
Time Stamps:
0:35 What's in a Beginning?
5:00 Two Types of Prologues
9:15 The Third Type of Prologue
17:16 So what, if it works?
20:01 How to make the beginning engaging
30:08 Beginnings We've Enjoyed
35:10 Setting Tone
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This week, Daystar and Alexander do their first review by comparing the various rationalities and irrationalities of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Rogue One, along with general things they liked and disliked about the movies.
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Alexander and Daystar discuss Bottom Up Storytelling, bring up common pitfalls to avoid, and explore some homespun examples.
Timestamps
00:35 Top Down vs Bottom Up
08:24 Natural Stories in Premises
11:06 Pitfalls in Bottom Up
24:20 Homespun Examples
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Daystar and Alexander discuss how authors explore social and political systems through top-down storytelling.
Timestamps:
0:25 Top Down World Building
2:29 Science Fiction for Social Commentary
18:41 Top-Down Writing in Our Work
25:30 Fitting Story to Genre
33:28 Tips for Top-Down
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the common pitfalls and problems surrounding religious beliefs in fiction, and how to avoid mistakes that can turn off readers, whether religious or not.
Time Stamps:
00:31 Personal Backgrounds
05:52 Religion in Fiction
10:05 Real Religions vs Fictional Religions
13:28 Religious or Atheist Strawmen
23:19 The Role of Faith
27:24 The Problem with an Afterlife
31:13 Do's and Don'ts
40:49 Examples
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Daystar and Alexander discuss exposition: the good, the bad, and the common pitfalls.
Timestamps:
0:45 Exposition vs Narrative
4:38 Bad Exposition
17:00 Exposition as Story Character
18:22 Exposition Timing
24:30 Good Exposition
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Special guest Eaglejarl joins Daystar and Alexander to discuss their experiences of the dreaded writer's block, including ways to avoid and get through it.
Timestamps
00:52 How does Writer's Block manifest for you?
9:07 Avoiding Writer's Block
20:15 Getting out of Writer's Block
27:20: Everyone Dies
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Daystar and Alexander finish discussing serial fiction, namely, chapter length, serial structure, and the need for continuous character growth and new conflicts.
Timestamps
00:34 Chapter Length
03:56 Overall Length
6:18 Dangers of Stretching Stories Out
10:06 Serial Structure
12:33 Continuous Character Growth
17:23 Continuous New Conflicts
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Daystar and Alexander discuss serial fiction's history, pros and cons, and how to navigate scheduling.
Timestamps
0:45 Features and History
10:30 Pros
15:31 Cons
18:14 Transitioning to Publishing
21:00 Scheduling
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Daystar and Alexander explore the different types of Multiverse stories, and how to make them compelling and rational.
Timestamps:
0:40 Why we enjoy multiverses
5:54 Types of multiverse stories
10:58 Realism of multiverse stories
16:16 Multiverse and Fanfiction
19:53 Bound vs Unbound Multiverses
34:22 Writing Multiverse Stories well
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Alexander and Daystar discuss the ways Time Travel manifests in fiction, and the various challenges and story space created by each.
Timestamps
0:30 Types of Time Travel
7:00 Static Timelines
13:29 Multiple TImelines
25:54 Ripple Effect
35:21 Hybrids and Opportunities
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Daystar and Alexander discuss some of the major problems with prophecies in stories, and ways to potentially avoid the major pitfalls.
Timestamps:
1:22 Prophecy as a way of Spoiling Tension
5:56 Creating Conflict
10:35 Developing Characters
11:45 Prophecy Tension
16:45 Predictable Attempts to avoid Prophecy
19:00 Shallow Intrigue
22:10 How to make prophecy work
30:55 Tricking Prophecies
37:03 Conditional Prophecies
39:20 Prophecy in the Real World
47:23 Being Clever in Subversion
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Daystar and Alexander go into detail on ways to adjust story structures to more rational stories.
Timestamps
00:35 Story structures in rational fiction
7:07 Non-standard endings
14:15 Balancing Endings
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Alexander and Daystar explore the different ways of planning out and structuring stories, and give examples of their strengths and weaknesses.
Time Stamps
00:37 Story Circles
12:40 TV show structures
20:54 Chapter by chapter planning
24:01 Alternative story structures
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Daystar and Alexander explore how to match antagonists against protagonists, how villains should push heroes, and other ways to structure compelling antagonists and conflicts.
Stay tuned after the ending music for a book recommendation and our first advertisement!
Time Stamps
00:34 Matching Antagonists against Protagonists.
04:08 Fixing Doomsday
6:42 Villains push Heroes
14:49 Reality vs Fiction
20:13 Understanding/Removing Antagonists
23:35 Multiple Antagonists
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Daystar and Alexander explore what makes for compelling story antagonists, and discuss some of their favorites.
Timestamps
0:34 What Makes an Antagonist?
2:38 Shallow Antagonists
9:06 Favorite Antagonists: Randall Flagg
12:41 Favorite Antagonists: Lex Luthor
17:54 Basics Do's and Don'ts
25:16 Creating Motivations
(32:15 Seriously guys please don't blow anyone up)
34:10 Favorite Antagonists: Magneto
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Daystar and Alexander describe five of the major types of conflicts in storytelling, and the pitfalls and strengths of each.
Timestamps:
00:30 Why do we need conflict?
02:05 Man vs Man
05:54 Man vs Society
14:28 Man vs Nature
21:27 Man vs Self
28:32 Man vs Technology
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Daystar and Alexander continue discussing magic systems, including advice on constructing one that's rational and compelling.
Timestamps:
1:10 Sanderson's Second Law: Limitations
8:25 Sanderson's Third Law: Expand before adding
15:05 Exponential complexity and "Why didn't anyone think of X?"
21:15 Designing Magic Resources
24:41 Designing Magic Power Levels
27:15 Ways to Limit Magic
29:20 Magic shouldn't make your job easier as a writer.
32:51 Diversity in magic systems
39:20 Characters Have to Approach Magic/Technology Intelligently
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Daystar and Alexander discuss what makes a magic system, what their purpose and function is, and some of the pitfalls and challenges to creating effective ones that enhance storytelling rather than distract from it.
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Daystar and Alexander discuss the Rule of Cool trope, and how rational fiction tries to create organically cool moments without sacrificing the story's integrity.
Timestamps:
0:40 What is the Rule of Cool? Is it inherently good or bad?
5:45 Swords vs Guns, Lightsabers, Waif-Fu
11:07 Why avoid it in Rational Fiction?
13:00 Ways to minimize negatives of Rule of Cool
19:20 Breaking the world
26:40 Is it better to fully explore an idea, or minimize its
role so as not to "cheat" the plot?
29:40 When to kill your darlings
34:15 When to run with the craziness
37:55 Recap of the three approaches to mitigating loss of coolness when rationalizing.
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What are the pros and cons of writing fanfiction, and what types of fanfiction work best to inspire rational fiction?
Timestamps:
0:40 The Three Types of Fanfiction
3:13 Examples, and where Rational Fiction falls
5:27 What are the pros of writing Fanfiction?
7:38 How do Daystar and Alexander find it useful?
9:25 Con 1: Limited Audience
12:18 Con 2: Expectations from Canon
14:39 Con 3: Lack of Profit
16:18 Genres that are easy and hard to rationalize.
19:55 Genre Ghettos
21:15 Daystar rants about Magical Realism
24:44 Fanfiction Ghetto
26:47 Best stories to rationalize
32:44 Finding new solutions, creating new problems
35:53 Bridging the gap between Fanfiction and Original Fiction
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In a world where "everything is a remix," what's so important about originality, and how can you help your writing be original?
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Daystar and Alexander discuss what tropes are, why they exist, how they're often used (or misused) in fiction, and a few ways to avoid bad tropes in rational and rationalist fiction.
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A brief history of the Rational and Rationalist fiction genres, their roots in the LessWrong community, and the influences from flagship authors of HPMOR and Luminosity.
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Webserial authors Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales share their thoughts on what rational writing is, and describe the Rational and Rationalist writing genres.
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