Rationally Writing: Recent Episodes

Rationally Writing

Webserial authors Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales talk about the craft of writing stories that make sense, and examine writing tropes and media through the lens of the Rational and Rationalist genres.

Intro and Outro music is G.A.T.O. Must Be Respected, by Tim Yarbrough

To contact us, please email daystar721@gmail.com Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/rationally-writing/support

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Short episode where Daystar and Alexander speak with Velorien, one of the writers of Marked for Death⁠, to discuss the impact of reader feedback in serial fiction.

Hosted by ⁠⁠Daystar Eld⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Alexander Wales⁠⁠.With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, ⁠⁠G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

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Daystar and Alexander discuss the role of money and class in fiction, and how it can affect, or fail to affect, their decisions and interactions.

Hosted by ⁠Daystar Eld⁠ and ⁠Alexander Wales⁠With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, ⁠G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

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Alex and I attended a writing retreat with some other authors in the rationality community, and while there decided to host an impromptu episode on subverting expectations, joined (primarily) by our Nebula nominated friend, Jamie Wahls. All I had to record with was my laptop, so apologies for the sound quality!

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Links:

http://jamiewahls.com/

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Today we're joined once again by Duncan Sabien, aka TK17, to discuss his incredible rationalfic, Animorphs: The Reckoning. It was recorded shortly after the story finished and includes questions on not just his writing process, but the various decisions that went into changes made from canon, so spoilers ahead!

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Links:

Duncan's "How the MTG Color Wheel Explains Humanity"

Animorphs: The Reckoning AMA

Duncan's Previous Guest Appearance


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Today we discuss Alexander's original serial fiction, Worth the Candle, and the various decisions and aspects of the story that came up throughout the writing process.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected


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Daystar and Alexander discuss gender in fiction, and how it cultural gender norms or deviances can inform not just character personalities but can be an interesting part of world building.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected


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Daystar and Alexander discuss using different species or "races" in fiction, and how it informs characters and is addressed by different types of stories.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected


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Daystar and Alexander discuss race in fiction, or rather, species, and how it informs characters and is addressed by different types of stories.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Timestamps

03:38 Race as a Social Construct

14:20 Approaches to Race in Fiction

22:30 Black Superman

32:55 How Race Informs Character

48:01 Literal Racism

56:48 Research


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Daystar and Alexander discuss politics as a plot device, and and political fiction as a genre.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Timestamps:

00:35 What is a political plot?

8:58 Main types of political plot structures

24:00 Political 5 Man Band

37:05 Challenges

Links:

Rules for Rulers


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Daystar and Alexander discuss irrational or non-rational fiction. 

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Timestamps

00:35 "Rational" vs "Irrational"

10:04 How do you distinguish?

18:50 Conversations around the difference

33:05 Audience Mindset

48:18 Writing non-rational fiction


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Daystar and Alexander discuss horror in fiction, and the unique challenges and opportunities that come with rational horror.

Co-hosted by Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Timestamps

0:37 What Do You Find Scary in Fiction?

7:42 Rational Horror

22:50 Horror vs Thriller

31:00 Strengths of Prose Horror

Links

Hereditary

It Follows

Dr. Who S4E11 - Midnight

Cordyceps

Ginny Weasley and The Sealed Intelligence 

Antimemetics

In the Mouth of Madness

John Dies at the End


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Daystar and Alexander discuss dropped threads and side plots in stories, what tends to lead to them and how to manage them as you go.

Timestamps

2:34 Serial Fiction

9:32 What Ends Up on the Page

14:55 Side Plots

17:10 Serials

21:25 Why Threads Get Dropped

27:30 Story Shifts

37:30 Our Dropped Threads

44:28 Bonus Dropped Threads


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Daystar and Alexander discuss character flaws; what makes for good ones, how to avoid Mary Sues, and why some flaws show up so often compared to others.

Timestamps

0:35 Flaws As Conflict Generators

5:53 Mary Sues

15:23 Brought Low

23:14 Most Common Flaws

36:02 Rarest Flaws

Twig by Wildbow

The Erogamer by Groon the Walker


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the reasons authors abandon stories before they're finished, whether they want to or not.

Hosted by Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales

With thanks to Tim Yarbrough for the Intro/Outro music, G.A.T.O Must Be Respected

Time Stamps

1:26 Abandonment vs Hiatus

6:16 Different reasons for Abandoning

17:10 Alex's List

25:55 Managing Burnout

39:37 Other Authors

48:21 Author Trust


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Daystar and Alexander discuss Ideological Turing Tests; what they are, why they're important in fiction, and how to try to pass them as best you can.

Timestamps:

0:34 Turing Tests

6:15 Avoiding Caricatures Isn't Enough

10:14 Passing ITT

25:48 Frames

37:53 Personal Challenges

47:11 Presentation


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Daystar and Alexander discuss romance in fiction, particularly in finding meaningful romantic conflicts as either the major plot, or as a subplot in a broader story.

Timestamps:

7:21 Body Language and Chemistry

14:00 Source of Romantic conflict

21:43 Troubled vs Doomed

30:20 Extreme Romantic Contexts

36:29 Compatibility

43:06 Conflict from Change

50:38 New and Ongoing Conflicts


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the value and pitfalls of using time skips, long and short.

Timestamps:

1:13 The Two Axes

11:51 Rules for Timeskips

25:27 Relationships

42:13 Extremely Long Timeskips


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Bonus bit of conversation from Episode 46.


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the common necessities of research for writing fiction.

0:30 A Stable of Experts

12:49 Inspirational Research

19:15 Spot Research


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Daystar and Alexander are joined by professional game writer Kuiper to discuss writing as a skill, or rather a set of skills, and the ways people can improve them.

Timestamps:

1:19 Writing as a skill

21:03 What improves writing?

24:20 Don't grow attached to your ideas

32:45 Skilling up one at a time

45:36 Sticking with or abandoning

50:25 Other ways to improve writing.


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Special guest Erratic Errata joins Daystar and Alexander to discuss more aspects of world building, particularly in his serial A Practical Guide to Evil.

1:04 Planet of Hats

11:31 Societal Axioms

19:30 Reconstructing Tropes

25:56 Playing with Narrative

35:06 Worldbuilding Differences

43:38 Free Will and Deities

49:39 Video game inspiration

55:15 A Practical Guide to Evil Q&A


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Daystar and Alexander discuss reader feedback, and taking criticism constructively.

Timestamps:

2:02 Paretto's Principle

6:30 Trends and Spikes

19:50 Typos vs Style

26:56 Continuity

29:30 Actionable

37:49 Deep Criticism

45:50 Spoilery feedback


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Special guest CthulhuRaeJepsen joins the podcast to discuss pseudonyms, and his story Worth the Candle.

Timestamps:

2:19 Writing Under Pseudonym

7:52 Worth the Candle

17:07 Spoiler Talk up to Ch. 84


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Daystar and Alexander discuss worldbuilding, and why considering second-order effects is so important to making it rational, and can help in finding or fleshing out good plots.

2:50 Battle School concept

6:46 Inadequate Equilibria As Story Elements

22:55 Shadows of the Limelight

28:22 Consequence of the Consequence

37:20 Aesop Exacerbation

41:14 Confronting Civilizational Inadequacy


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Daystar and Alexander review the movie The Prestige, and explore what made it such a well constructed, perhaps even rational, work of fiction.

Timestamps

2:24 Summary + Was it Rational?

16:30 Foreshadowing

21:34 Clashing Ideologies

25:22 Noticing Confusion

30:25 Magic and Storytelling

45:40 Repeat Viewings


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Daystar and Alexander discuss children in fiction, including what makes them realistic and why reactions to them can vary so widely.

Timestamps

0:31 Advantages of child protagonists

4:43 "Children don't act like that."

16:00 Keeping smart/mature children children

20:37 Evergreen methods

26:40 Predictive Processing and "Wonder"

34:33 In Pokemon: ToOS


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the unique aspects of the various mediums of prose fiction, and how new technologies introduce new opportunities and challenges.

Timestamps

5:03 Technological limitations

11:01 Conventions

16:45 New Media

19:27 Music

24:45 Subjectivity

31:45 Mediumception


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Daystar and Alexander discuss how to plan out and navigate different power dynamics to keep your stories engaging.

Time Stamps

0:42 Power in Fiction

3:46 World vs Protagonist vs Antagonist

11:14 New Dimsensions vs Power Creep

14:34 Rationalist Fiction

22:25 Power Differential on a Different Axis

32:55 Powers as Part of Identities

37:01 Protagonist vs Antagonist

47:58 Power in Romance stories


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Daystar and Alexander explore brainstorming, and how trope lists, patterns, and symmetry can be used to come up with new takes on old ideas.


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Daystar and Alexander explore how to "break the story" when outlining its plot and character arcs.

Time Stamps:

00:49 What is Breaking the Story?

5:12 Example

13:38 Character Arcs

28:40 Plot and Endings


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Daystar and Alexander review Alex's latest NaNoWriMo book, The Dark Wizard Of Donkerk.

Time Stamps:

1:12 Magic Systems

9:18 The Twist

15:53 Spirit Magic

20:47 Potential Sequel

25:17 Plot Threads

28:33 Villain

31:49 The Prophecy


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Daystar and Alexander review some of each other's writing, starting with Pokemon: The Origin of Species

3:30 Planning the story

8:36 Present Tense

10:15 Viewpoints

16:39 Goals/Defeats

23:41 Cycles

28:24 Interludes

34:55 Criticisms


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Daystar and Alexander are joined by special guest Duncan Sabien (TK17) to discuss multiple perspectives in fiction, including common pitfalls and benefits.

1:30 Archetypes vs Whole Characters

5:34 Choosing Who Gets what Scene

14:45 Shifting Focus and Disorientation

25:06 Different Character Dialogue

35:30 Differentiating Characters


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Daystar and Alexander discuss action scenes and how to ensure they're engaging and meaningful.

Timestamps:

1:23 Action Scenes in Different Mediums

5:38 What Makes a Good Action Scene

11:22 Avoiding Repetition

17:01 Rational Action Scenes

20:07 Pacing and Flow


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Daystar and Alexander discuss literary fiction, its values and failure modes, and its similarities and differences from rational fiction.

01:20 What Qualifies as Literary Fiction?

15:06 Pretentiousness

25: 03 Literary Fiction and Rational Fiction

35:50 Writing Literary Fiction

45:43 Recommendations


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Daystar and Alexander discusses the value of new settings opposed to using an established one, and the idea of others using their own stories and ideas.

01:24 Taking Ideas vs Fanfic

7:17 Stealing Mechanics

11:33 The value of something new

19:36 Taking our ideas

27:09 Guardian


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Daystar and Alexander discuss creative appropriation, aka "stealing," and the philosophy and benefits behind it.

01:03 How to not be original

11:10 Adding something new

16:01 Stealing details

22:10 The argument against copywrite

28:38 Artistic distinction for using


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Daystar and Alexander explore the differences between good description and bad description, and analyze examples of descriptions from novels.

Timestamps:

01:16 Why is description important?

8:53 What is good description?

14:40 When to put the description?

22:12 Alexander's notable examples

30:00 Daystar's notable examples

Advertisement:

This month, the podcast is being sponsored by Scrivener! It's a great program to help better organize writing projects, from novels to research papers and more. They're offering a 30 day free trial, and if you like it enough to buy it, you can support the show by using the promo code RATIONALLY during the month of March. Hope you find it useful!


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Daystar and Alexander explore the differences between GMing a tabletop RPG and writing a story.

01:04 Gaming creds

05:10 Starting a story vs an RPG.

15:50 Railroading

28:36 Players as Characters

35:23 Exposition

37:51 Source Books


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Daystar and Alexander explore what makes endings satisfying, effective, or just annoying.

2:41 What makes endings satisfying?

15:23 Alternate endings

18:38 Bad endings

25:56 Ambiguity in endings

32:07 Downer endings

37:58 Endings we've enjoyed


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the beginnings of stories, and what goes into an effective or boring start.

Time Stamps:

0:35 What's in a Beginning?

5:00 Two Types of Prologues

9:15 The Third Type of Prologue

17:16 So what, if it works?

20:01 How to make the beginning engaging

30:08 Beginnings We've Enjoyed

35:10 Setting Tone


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This week, Daystar and Alexander do their first review by comparing the various rationalities and irrationalities of Star Wars: The Force Awakens and Rogue One, along with general things they liked and disliked about the movies.


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Alexander and Daystar discuss Bottom Up Storytelling, bring up common pitfalls to avoid, and explore some homespun examples.

Timestamps

00:35 Top Down vs Bottom Up

08:24 Natural Stories in Premises

11:06 Pitfalls in Bottom Up

24:20 Homespun Examples


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Daystar and Alexander discuss how authors explore social and political systems through top-down storytelling.

Timestamps:

0:25 Top Down World Building

2:29 Science Fiction for Social Commentary

18:41 Top-Down Writing in Our Work

25:30 Fitting Story to Genre

33:28 Tips for Top-Down


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the common pitfalls and problems surrounding religious beliefs in fiction, and how to avoid mistakes that can turn off readers, whether religious or not.

Time Stamps:

00:31 Personal Backgrounds

05:52 Religion in Fiction

10:05 Real Religions vs Fictional Religions

13:28 Religious or Atheist Strawmen

23:19 The Role of Faith

27:24 The Problem with an Afterlife

31:13 Do's and Don'ts

40:49 Examples


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Daystar and Alexander discuss exposition: the good, the bad, and the common pitfalls.

Timestamps:

0:45 Exposition vs Narrative

4:38 Bad Exposition

17:00 Exposition as Story Character

18:22 Exposition Timing

24:30 Good Exposition


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Special guest Eaglejarl joins Daystar and Alexander to discuss their experiences of the dreaded writer's block, including ways to avoid and get through it.

Timestamps

00:52 How does Writer's Block manifest for you?

9:07 Avoiding Writer's Block

20:15 Getting out of Writer's Block

27:20: Everyone Dies


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Daystar and Alexander finish discussing serial fiction, namely, chapter length, serial structure, and the need for continuous character growth and new conflicts.

Timestamps

00:34 Chapter Length

03:56 Overall Length

6:18 Dangers of Stretching Stories Out

10:06 Serial Structure

12:33 Continuous Character Growth

17:23 Continuous New Conflicts


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Daystar and Alexander discuss serial fiction's history, pros and cons, and how to navigate scheduling.

Timestamps

0:45 Features and History

10:30 Pros

15:31 Cons

18:14 Transitioning to Publishing

21:00 Scheduling


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Daystar and Alexander explore the different types of Multiverse stories, and how to make them compelling and rational.

Timestamps:

0:40 Why we enjoy multiverses

5:54 Types of multiverse stories

10:58 Realism of multiverse stories

16:16 Multiverse and Fanfiction

19:53 Bound vs Unbound Multiverses

34:22 Writing Multiverse Stories well


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Alexander and Daystar discuss the ways Time Travel manifests in fiction, and the various challenges and story space created by each.

Timestamps

0:30 Types of Time Travel

7:00 Static Timelines

13:29 Multiple TImelines

25:54 Ripple Effect

35:21 Hybrids and Opportunities


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Daystar and Alexander discuss some of the major problems with prophecies in stories, and ways to potentially avoid the major pitfalls.

Timestamps:

1:22 Prophecy as a way of Spoiling Tension

5:56 Creating Conflict

10:35 Developing Characters

11:45 Prophecy Tension

16:45 Predictable Attempts to avoid Prophecy

19:00 Shallow Intrigue

22:10 How to make prophecy work

30:55 Tricking Prophecies

37:03 Conditional Prophecies

39:20 Prophecy in the Real World

47:23 Being Clever in Subversion


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Daystar and Alexander go into detail on ways to adjust story structures to more rational stories.

Timestamps

00:35 Story structures in rational fiction

7:07 Non-standard endings

14:15 Balancing Endings


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Alexander and Daystar explore the different ways of planning out and structuring stories, and give examples of their strengths and weaknesses.

Time Stamps

00:37 Story Circles

12:40 TV show structures

20:54 Chapter by chapter planning

24:01 Alternative story structures


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Daystar and Alexander explore how to match antagonists against protagonists, how villains should push heroes, and other ways to structure compelling antagonists and conflicts.

Stay tuned after the ending music for a book recommendation and our first advertisement!

Time Stamps

00:34 Matching Antagonists against Protagonists.

04:08 Fixing Doomsday

6:42 Villains push Heroes

14:49 Reality vs Fiction

20:13 Understanding/Removing Antagonists

23:35 Multiple Antagonists


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Daystar and Alexander explore what makes for compelling story antagonists, and discuss some of their favorites.

Timestamps

0:34 What Makes an Antagonist?

2:38 Shallow Antagonists

9:06 Favorite Antagonists: Randall Flagg

12:41 Favorite Antagonists: Lex Luthor

17:54 Basics Do's and Don'ts

25:16 Creating Motivations

(32:15 Seriously guys please don't blow anyone up)

34:10 Favorite Antagonists: Magneto


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Daystar and Alexander describe five of the major types of conflicts in storytelling, and the pitfalls and strengths of each.

Timestamps:

00:30 Why do we need conflict?

02:05 Man vs Man

05:54 Man vs Society

14:28 Man vs Nature

21:27 Man vs Self

28:32 Man vs Technology


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Daystar and Alexander continue discussing magic systems, including advice on constructing one that's rational and compelling.

Timestamps:

1:10 Sanderson's Second Law: Limitations

8:25 Sanderson's Third Law: Expand before adding

15:05 Exponential complexity and "Why didn't anyone think of X?"

21:15 Designing Magic Resources

24:41 Designing Magic Power Levels

27:15 Ways to Limit Magic

29:20 Magic shouldn't make your job easier as a writer.

32:51 Diversity in magic systems

39:20 Characters Have to Approach Magic/Technology Intelligently


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Daystar and Alexander discuss what makes a magic system, what their purpose and function is, and some of the pitfalls and challenges to creating effective ones that enhance storytelling rather than distract from it.


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Daystar and Alexander discuss the Rule of Cool trope, and how rational fiction tries to create organically cool moments without sacrificing the story's integrity.

Timestamps:

0:40 What is the Rule of Cool? Is it inherently good or bad?

5:45 Swords vs Guns, Lightsabers, Waif-Fu

11:07 Why avoid it in Rational Fiction?

13:00 Ways to minimize negatives of Rule of Cool

19:20 Breaking the world

26:40 Is it better to fully explore an idea, or minimize its

role so as not to "cheat" the plot?

29:40 When to kill your darlings

34:15 When to run with the craziness

37:55 Recap of the three approaches to mitigating loss of coolness when rationalizing.


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What are the pros and cons of writing fanfiction, and what types of fanfiction work best to inspire rational fiction?

Timestamps:

0:40 The Three Types of Fanfiction

3:13 Examples, and where Rational Fiction falls

5:27 What are the pros of writing Fanfiction?

7:38 How do Daystar and Alexander find it useful?

9:25 Con 1: Limited Audience

12:18 Con 2: Expectations from Canon

14:39 Con 3: Lack of Profit

16:18 Genres that are easy and hard to rationalize.

19:55 Genre Ghettos

21:15 Daystar rants about Magical Realism

24:44 Fanfiction Ghetto

26:47 Best stories to rationalize

32:44 Finding new solutions, creating new problems

35:53 Bridging the gap between Fanfiction and Original Fiction


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In a world where "everything is a remix," what's so important about originality, and how can you help your writing be original?


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Daystar and Alexander discuss what tropes are, why they exist, how they're often used (or misused) in fiction, and a few ways to avoid bad tropes in rational and rationalist fiction.


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A brief history of the Rational and Rationalist fiction genres, their roots in the LessWrong community, and the influences from flagship authors of HPMOR and Luminosity.


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Webserial authors Daystar Eld and Alexander Wales share their thoughts on what rational writing is, and describe the Rational and Rationalist writing genres.


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