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We end season 4 with a BIG one!

In this episode, I have the absolute privilege of chatting to Dr. Rosie, a clinical psychologist and founder of The Birth Healing Collective, to discuss the difficult yet common experience of birthing again after birth trauma. Dr. Rosie shares her expertise on how women can heal from a traumatic birth, rebuild trust in their bodies, and prepare emotionally, socially and practically for their next birth experience. We dive into practical strategies for managing fear and anxiety, the importance of a trauma-informed birth plan, and the crucial role partners play in the healing and birthing process. Whether you’ve experienced birth trauma firsthand or are supporting someone who has, this episode is packed with empowering advice to help navigate the journey towards a positive and empowering birth!

I am often asked "how do you have another baby after trauma?" and this episode is designed to address the nuance that comes with birthing again after trauma. Make sure you check out Dr Rosie's resources below and thank you for listening!

Resources:

The Birth Healing Collective and working with Dr Rosie: https://thebirthhealingcollective.com/

Dr Rosie's epic Better Birth Program: https://thebirthhealingcollective.com/better-birth/

Follow Dr Rosie @birth_healing_collective AND dr_rosie_psychologist

Other supports:

birthtrauma.org.au

panda.org.au

See you in season 5!

Disclaimer: This episode is intended for informational and educational purposes only. Please seek personalised, professional support and guidance for your upcoming birth.

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Elly Taylor, an experienced relationship counsellor and perinatal researcher, shares her insights on why 92% of parents experience increased conflict and why 67% feel less happy in their relationships during the first year of parenthood. With over 25 years experience, Elly combines her extensive knowledge, insight, and personal journey to create a world-first relationship-developmental framework for couples and now trains professionals using this needed framework. In this episode, Elly offers actionable advice for couples navigating the tumultuous early years of parenting.

We explore the surprising truths about relationship changes after having children, the common struggles couples encounter, and how to reconnect and grow stronger together. Elly addresses the emotional rollercoaster that comes with new parenthood, talking about everything from socio-cultural difficulties, disconnection, expectations, transition differences between men and women, mental health, intimacy challenges and just so much more.

Whether you're a new parent or preparing for parenthood, this episode is packed with wisdom and support from one of the leading experts in the field.

Don't miss out on this invaluable episode with Elly Taylor!

For more resources and support:

Buy Becoming Us: The Couples Guide to Parenthood book: https://becomingusfamily.com/the-book

Get support for your relationship: https://becomingusfamily.com/parenthood

Becoming Us Counsellor Directory: https://becomingusfamily.com/meet-our-facilitators

For professionals working with couples: https://becomingusfamily.com/preparing-parents-for-parenthood

Becoming Me Again (for mothers): https://becoming-us-training.thinkific.com/courses/becoming-me-again

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birthtraumaawareness

Amber Melissa Kennedy, a two-time preeclampsia survivor, opens up about her traumatic experiences with preeclampsia, HELLP Syndrome, and a rare epidural complication during childbirth. Amber shares about her pregnancies, labour and early postpartum experiences, including being sent home from the ER with severe preeclampsia. Amber reflects on that time with much anguish and speaks to the impact it had on her mental health, and shares about the fire in her to advocate for change. I also love that she wrote to her healthcare providers making them aware of the impact (good and bad) they had on her during her birth experience! Together we discuss the various current birth narratives that are harmful to women and hope for a better future for maternal healthcare everywhere.

It's important to know the signs for preeclampsia and HELLP syndrome as early detection can prevent the conditions from worsening.

For more information about HELLP syndrome and preeclampsia, please check out The Preeclampsia Foundation: https://www.preeclampsia.org/

If you have experienced birth trauma please consider seeking support with a perinatal therapist, or reaching out to organisations:

birthtrauma.org.au (Australia)

panda.org.au (Australia)

cope.org.au (Australia)

postpartum.net (International)

You can find Amber here: @daughtersoflucina

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In this episode, Amber-lee, your host, sits down with Ebony, a young mother from Brisbane, as she shares her journey living with Epilepsy and Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease (CMT), which is a group of inherited disorders that cause nerve damage. Ebony opens up about her diagnoses, the impact of these conditions on her young life and current life, and the emotional rollercoaster of discovering her son Flynn has inherited CMT sharing the early signs of the condition to the supportive interventions that have helped him thrive. Ebony shares the challenges specifically living with epilepsy and the many unknowns in her life. This episode sheds light on the realities of living with a disability and raising a child with a genetic condition and the importance of support, education, and understanding in navigating these challenges. Ebony shares her reflections on resilience, acceptance, and advocacy and it was a beautiful conversation.

You can find Ebony: @kingeeebs

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This episode delves into the complex and often overlooked topic of prenatal diagnosis. Prenatal diagnosis involves genetic, developmental, or health issues in an unborn baby and statistics show that approximately 1 in 22 babies have a major congenital anomaly, and many of these diagnoses are made before birth. These diagnoses can be distressing and traumatic, presenting parents with difficult decisions and often accompanied by significant emotional and psychological challenges.

Your host, Amber-lee, has the pleasure of speaking with Pieta Shakes, founder of Through The Unexpected, a charity working to advocate for systemic and societal change and supports families navigating a prenatal diagnosis. Pieta shares her personal journey of receiving a prenatal diagnosis in her third trimester, describing the emotional turmoil, decision-making challenges, and the gaps in the healthcare system that often fail to support parents adequately. She discusses the importance of community, the need for better training for healthcare professionals to provide empathetic and informed care to parents receiving a prenatal diagnosis, and finding hope amidst uncertainty.

In this conversation, Pieta and Amber-lee explore the nuanced and varied experiences of parents navigating prenatal diagnoses, the impact on mental health, and the societal stigmas attached. They also talk about Pieta’s research focusing on the psychosocial aspects of prenatal diagnosis and her dedication to improving support systems for families facing these challenges. Pieta’s insights and advocacy for better care and support highlight the critical need for change in how we address and manage prenatal diagnoses.

If you are currently navigating prenatal diagnosis please see support, resources and information by Through The Unexpected: https://throughtheunexpected.org.au/

Find Pieta here: @throughtheunexpected

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*As always, please consider what you are consuming

Amber-lee is joined by Ariane Beeston, postnatal psychosis survivor, psychologist, former child protection caseworker, and writer who courageously shares her journey through postnatal psychosis after the birth of her son over a decade ago. Ariane's harrowing experience, detailed in her memoir "Because I'm Not Myself You See: A Memoir of Motherhood, Madness, and Coming Back from the Brink," offers a raw, real, and devastatingly honest look into the some of the most taboo and stigmatised experiences in maternal mental health.

Postnatal psychosis is a severe form of perinatal mental illness that occurs in approximately 1 to 2 out of every 1,000 mothers, typically within days to the first six weeks after childbirth. It is characterized by extreme confusion, hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of touch with reality, making it a psychiatric emergency that requires immediate treatment.

Ariane discusses the intense symptoms including seeing her baby as a dragon, thoughts of death and ending her life, the isolation of that time and shame around her experiences, the physical and emotional toll of depression, and the fears that kept her silent for so long. She reveals how a combination of expert psychiatric care, medication, and unwavering support from her husband helped her find a path to recovery.

Amber-lee and Ariane explore the importance of acknowledging and addressing perinatal mental illness, the often-misunderstood nature of postpartum psychosis, intrusive thoughts, mandatory reporting and the vital role of support systems for both mothers and their families. This episode is a powerful testament to the importance of breaking the silence around maternal mental health struggles, and also the difficulties in bringing them to light.

Ariane's story is heartbreaking, but also carries so much hope for those who are currently struggling. Her book is shockingly relatable to any mother who has felt the weight of maternal mental illness and is brutally honest about that time and presentations of psychosis. I loved her book and hope the world accepts this beautiful and devastating poetic piece as it is.

You can purchase her book here: https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/because-im-not-myself-you-see

Find Ariane on socials: @arianebeeston

Read more of her work for COPE here:https://www.cope.org.au/author/ariane/

If you or someone you know is struggling with their mental health, particularly related to perinatal or postpartum experiences, here are some valuable resources that can provide support and guidance:

www.cope.org.au

www.panda.org.au & National Helpline: 1300 726 306

www.lifeline.org.au & 24/7 Crisis Support: 13 11 14

www.postpartum.net (global)

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Do you feel different after having a baby? We've talked about matrescence but this episode is dedicated to understanding the biological changes and components of matrescence through a neuroscience lens. Host Amber-lee is joined by Dr. Sarah McKay, a renowned neuroscientist and author of Baby Brain: The surprising neuroscience of how pregnancy and motherhood sculpt our brains and change our minds (for the better), to delve deep into the neuroscience of motherhood, debunking common myths surrounding 'baby brain' and the changes women experience during pregnancy and after childbirth. From the influence of hormones to the reorganisation of the brain, Dr. McKay shares groundbreaking insights into how motherhood impacts the female brain, challenging the stigma associated with postnatal cognitive changes. Alongside discussing the physiological changes, this episode explores paternal brain adaptations, the psychology behind maternal instincts, and the vital importance of mental health and support for new mothers. Join us as together we shed light on the beauty and complexity of brain changes in motherhood, advocating for a mother-focused approach in society's understanding and support of women's health. Don't miss this episode full of revelations that will change the way you think about 'baby brain' and the incredible adaptability of the human brain during the journey of motherhood!

Get Dr Sarah McKay's book here: https://drsarahmckay.com/books/

and find her on socials @drsarahmckay

TRANSCRIPT:

Amber-lee (Host): It's often said that mothers may experience cognitive deficits like forgetfulness or reduced attention span during and after pregnancy. However, is there more to this phenomenon than meets the eye? Today, we're going to challenge these myths and explore how changes in the brain during motherhood are actually adaptations that enhance certain cognitive and emotional capacities.

In today's episode, I'm thrilled to welcome neuroscientist and author, Dr. Sarah McKay to dive into baby brain and her recent book Baby Brain: The surprising neuroscience of how pregnancy and motherhood sculpt our brains and change our minds for the better. She is an expert in translating complex brain research into practical advice, and Dr. McKay joins us to debunk common myths explore the crucial roles of hormones like estrogen and oxytocin, and discuss how these changes significantly impact women's health and wellbeing, but also the biopsychosocial elements of that as well. And of course, we can't talk about baby brain without bringing up sleep deprivation.

So Sarah, welcome. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Oh, thank you for the invitation.

Amber-lee (Host): I'm interested to know then what led you to write this book? Because I know that you had a particular interest in the female brain and your very first book was on the female brain quite literally. So I'm just curious what led you to writing this book on baby brain? What was the process from female brain to baby brain?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): The process was in the middle of writing my first book, woman's brain book. Which kind of takes a womb to tomb tour of the female life span and looks to see how, our lives as girls and women shape our brain and in turn, how our brains kind of control and interact with experiences we have by being female.

In the middle of that came pregnancy and motherhood. There was a, there was naturally a chapter on that in the middle of that book. And when I was writing the first book, kind of 2016, 17, there wasn't a lot, there was some, but not a lot of research. We've seen this explosion in the last kind of five, six, seven years, which is so exciting around women's brain health, but there wasn't a lot of research in some fields back in 2016 17. But as luck would have it, while I was writing that book, and it depends which date you look on the paper, whether it's December 2016 or January 2017, because the publication date was right around that new year, this, the first paper was published looking at how women's brains change before they're born and after their first pregnancy. And it came from a research group in Spain. And I've since in the, in my second book, baby Brain the first chapter you'll see, I interviewed and chatted in detail to the women involved in that research study. But I just was so captivated by the study because I suppose for me it satisfied and indulged all the things I love so much about science that the ability to zoom in and try to understand what's happening down at the cellular level at a brain that's experiencing pregnancy, zoom out a little bit more and look to see how the structure of the brain changes. And then look to see how that kind of relates to how a woman changes when she goes through a pregnancy and becomes a mother. And it just ticked all of those kinds of those boxes and the story was so beautifully meaningful, and so beautifully told by the scientists who did that. And for me, I was really captivated by that. And so I'd kept an eye on that particular field of suppose matrescence, the neuroscience of matrescence is probably the best overall umbrella to give to it. And I saw that there was a lot more research coming out. I thought, I think there's enough for a whole book here. And part of that, which I started to explore in the first book and often when people would say, what were the main takeaways from your first book? And I wanted to interrogate them in the second Was the idea that I went into writing the first book knowing as much as I knew about as one could know about neuroscience when you've been doing it for a number of decades which is actually not a lot because it's a big subject but not coming from the discipline of neuro endocrinology, which is how hormones interact with the nervous system.Thinking that the woman's brain book will be a whole lot more about hormones. And it taught me this fundamental kind of principle of the brain that it's constantly being shaped, not only by our biology, including our hormones, but by the experiences we have with the world around us, including other people.

And also by our psychology, our mind, our thoughts, our expectations. And so I wanted to interrogate the idea of pregnancy and motherhood from that kind of biopsychosocial perspective. And then carrying into that these stories that our expectations shape our reality as much as our experiences shape our reality. And. I had my I've got two teenage sons now. So I had them in 2008, 2009. And I'd never heard this term baby brain. And when I was writing a book on women's health, people asked me a bit about baby brain, brain fog, menopause, puberty blues. Everyone was wanting to know about deficit and dysfunction and emotional instability. Because if you're going to talk about women and brains and hormones, that's like where you go, right? Just deficit. The default is a deficit. And that drove me crazy because I had never heard the term baby brain when I was having my pregnancies.

I moved from academia into health communications when I was eight weeks pregnant with my first son. So I was still working within science and health and communication, but it was quite a big shift and it was a brand new world to learn about. And I loved it. I thrived. I felt so engaged and onto it and super successful, but together mentally, cognitively, intellectually. I didn't have baby brain, but I had never heard the term before and I couldn't let go of the idea that it was never part of an expectation of my, of a pregnancy for me. It was never part of an expectation of motherhood. So I wanted to look at that as well. How much of the experiences we have are purely biological is all driven by hormones or is it some experience that we have that depends on what we expect.

Amber-lee (Host): So, you've talked to baby brain, you've talked about expectations. I assume that. We could call that like a socio cultural expectation of having baby brain. Women claim to have these experiences of these cognitive deficits and you talk to this in your book. So what does the science say versus what women are saying and how do we explain that?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): This is the thing, if we pull all of the studies together, it's interesting because we're talking about two quite different physiological states here as well, pregnancy and then motherhood. And then we've also got first pregnancies and first experiences of motherhood and subsequent experiences. And if you've had more than one, you'll know that the second time, particularly of motherhood, pregnancies are different, but motherhood definitely is. It's usually a bit easier the second time around because you've been there, done that, so has your brain. So if we just look at the first experience of pregnancy and first motherhood if we pull all that together and we ask women who's experiencing baby brain as they define it, and the definitions are loose, but essentially it means not being able to pay attention or focus as well as previously. It's usually in comparison to your pre pregnant life. Remembering things, forgetting things, paying attention, forgetting where you put your keys, all of that kind of stuff and just not performing as well as you used to. We ask women that and four out of five women will put their hands up and say yes, that's me. And obviously I was one of the one of five women that didn't. And there's other women in the book because I'd surveyed my audience and women wrote in sharing their experiences. There was actually a really interesting story of a woman who went through, who said she had hurt three babies when she went through her medical school training. She had a husband at home looking after the babies and she didn't know baby brain was a thing either. And so she never experienced it. And I thought, that's interesting. If we bring these women into the research lab and we say, okay, you say your brain's cognitively not at its best, let's test your cognition and we have these standardized tests of cognition that essentially are designed to almost check, are you experiencing cognitive decline and should we be concerned about what you're experiencing, is this early onset Alzheimer's disease, is there true memory loss? And when we test particularly new mothers, we don't actually pick up any, loss. There's no kind of differences between before and after pregnancy. If we test a group of new mums versus a group of non mums, et cetera, there's no significant differences there. If we test women during pregnancy, using these same standardized tests.

Occasionally in some women, in some studies, some of the time, so it's not consistent, it's very inconsistent, but there are some reports that in the third trimester of pregnancy, some women are scoring like maybe a point less, on a scale and say these scales go from zero to three say 30 and you would be worrying about cognition if you know you dropped below 24 or 25 points. Maybe someone's gone from 30 to 29 so that woman's perceiving that difference particularly if she's quite verbal or quite you know does a lot of linguistic gymnastics or is very on she might notice that little difference but not all women all of the time. So what we've got here women experience reporting this broad experience. Oh, most women are saying this. We're simply not picking up cognitive decline. And that's a really good thing because there's obviously no degeneration or deficit there, but maybe there's something going on. So there's a number of different ways to explore that.

So some researchers have gone in and said, okay, let's look in this third trimester of pregnancy, what's happening. We can talk in a bit about some of the structural changes that we see taking place. in the brain during pregnancy. And a lot of them take place in the third trimester. So there's definitely kind of reorganization going on in that point in time. So one researcher has went in and she was really interested in this third trimester and said how about we don't just do these sort of standardized tests, which are designed to pick up dementia? Why don't we design different kinds of tests that maybe enable That kind of allow us to tune in to what mothers are thinking about mothers to be at this point in time. And the basis of that was if we look at other animals, and this is why it's always useful not to just look at humans. If we look at other animals, mammalian mothers in the animal kingdom, when they become, pregnant and become mothers, they usually get better at doing what they do to survive. Mother Nature's intention here, or evolution's intention, is that she will not only keep herself fit and healthy, but she'll be able to raise her young. So if it's a predator, the predator will get better at hunting. It will be faster, sharper. Be able to track prey, that the mother will become a better predator. If she's the kind of animal that has a little thing of nuts hidden somewhere in the forest, she'll get better at remembering her way through a maze to find hidden nuts.

So all of the mothers get better at doing what they do. We haven't got sheep getting better at remembering shopping lists. And we haven't got hunters getting better at remembering to respond to their emails. So the researchers were like why don't we perhaps test, save woman's memories. Changed for things that might be mattering to them in the third trimester of pregnancy, which is a fun way to do it. So they design studies looking at kind of visual recognition, spatial recognition of baby related items. And these women were in New York, this is an American sorry, an Australian scientist, but she was doing her research in New York. So they got all these baby related items like strollers and nappies and baby bottles and the price of, I don't know, baby monitors and all baby related paraphernalia and that they found that the women in the third trimester of pregnancy were far better at remembering these things, the women who were not pregnant. So it, it was just, it was trying to say that what we've got to be doing is looking at ecologically relevant. memory and thinking about what's the evolutionary adaptive benefit for a brain to change during pregnancy.

So here we've actually got cognitive enhancements specifically for something that's ecologically relevant and matters to that mother having a, who's pregnant in New York. And we've also got ecologically relevant enhancements that we see in these other animals. So that was one way of, looking at this kind of conundrum. The second was another researcher, Winnie Orchard, was interested in this kind of paradox, this dilemma, why do women say they're forgetful, but we're not picking it up in the research lab. And so she wanted to go on and she took a bit more of a sort of a bigger picture informed by feminist approach going, what is it that women need to perform at their best? We need social support. We need less stress. We need someone to help us with the baby, to feed us, to nurture us, to look after us. And she found that women who reported low wellbeing, overall wellbeing, they weren't getting enough sleep. They weren't getting enough social support.

They were stressed out, they didn't feel at their best, were more likely to also say they had baby brain. Women who were very well didn't report baby brain as much. And this is even when they were shown, here's your cognitive test results, you're doing fine. So there was this kind of self perception part of it. I don't feel at my best, therefore there must be something wrong with my brain. And one is analysis of this, and I quite like this idea. Is that from puberty girls are taught when we've got a brain and some hormones, we mix them up together, you're going to get puberty blues. You're going to get anxiety and depressions going up. And that's another whole story. I don't think hormone levels have changed in the last year 15 years. But we tend to from puberty, whether it be boys or girls, there's a bit of moodiness going on because everything's changing. They're going, you're starting off at high school, your friendship group's changing, your body's changing, your brain's changing.

We go, oh it must be hormones. We blame that for bad mood. And throughout our lifespan, we've been primed that when we're not functioning at our best, it must be something to do with our hormones in some way causing a deficit in our brain. And what you've got is this brain, which has been sculpted by pregnancy.We'll talk about it in a moment. With the intention to focus in and pay attention to this new baby, which is coming into the world, a whole new human, which you have created in your body, which you now have to keep alive. Like your biological mandate is to focus in on that baby. Okay. Not to remember your emails or to remember your parties, or to remember all of the other things that actually other people around you should be helping and supporting you to do. Your biological mandate is to focus in on all things baby, almost to the exclusion of everything else, because of course that's what you're what other animals, other mothers in the mammalian kingdom do. But we've got a lot of competing demands. Yes. And then we've also got this term, which I hate almost more than anything, the super mom. And super mom suits society. Because no one has to help super mom because she can do it all. And it's okay because if she can't, if she forgets the email, she feels fuzzy, she forgets, she's not able to pay attention to all of the things because she's now got another whole human that her body is primed to look after. It's okay because she'll blame her brain and no one needs to do anything about that to help. And so this is Winnie Orchard's take that, it's more of a sort of a social expectation issue. On women and women that women have absorbed themselves. This messaging, it's not a cognitive deficit. It's just, you can't do everything and you shouldn't have to do everything. And we shouldn't expect women to do everything. Women shouldn't expect to be able to remember all of the things that they used to remember when their biology has entirely shifted with the sole focus of keeping this new little human alive and growing with them.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. That makes so much sense to me because when I think about. My pre baby brain, post baby brain or pre pregnancy brain, I think about the mental load and the demands in my life pre and post, and they are significantly different. And it's definitely a factor that we need to consider when we're talking about something like baby brain, in your words, then does baby brain exist?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): It's a real, it's a real phenomenon. And women are experiencing a real. What they're describing as a real experience, but it's not because they're cognitively dysfunctional. Yes. It's not because their brains aren't working properly. It's just, it's like you said, it's the mental load. It's this enormous expectation that you still do everything you used to be able to do, but now there's another whole new human in your world. That you also your biology, your evolution has primed you to focus only on that. But you think you need to also do the other things. You can't split your attention. Memory depends fundamentally on attention, what information we take in and what we filter out. And we can't pay attention to all of the things. And so we're going to forget some of them, but it's not because there's something wrong with us.

Amber-lee (Host): Love that. Love that. There's nothing wrong with you. You've just got too much on your plate.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Domination wouldn't make us dumb. There would be absolutely no adaptive benefit for mothers to become stupid. We become so much more functionally exceptional in many ways, our brains become more flexible more efficient and more responsive

Amber-lee (Host): . Yeah, so let's talk about this then. So we're starting from pregnancy, most people find out that when you're pregnant your brain shrinks by so much percent. I've read 4 percent 8 percent They're all different And it's that is seen as something that is negative, but what is happening here?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Yeah. This is why neuroscience is really cool because size doesn't always equal ability. Size doesn't matter when it comes to the brain either. Teenage going through adolescence, there's also volume loss in the cortex as well and it's fundamentally maps alongside the emergence of skill, various. Skills, developing. So adolescence and matrescence are very similar from a neurological perspective, and that we see a loss of volume in cortex, but that reflects the emergence of development of new skills, because overall what the brain does is it wants to always become more efficient and it wants to use less because the brain is very energy hungry and it wants to optimize and become as efficient as possible. So if it can in any way become more streamlined and more efficient, end. As you learn a skill, as you go from novice to master, if you're learning anything from golf through to looking after a baby, if we're to map the changes in your brain, we'll actually see the brain using less brain power, using less cortical real estate, becoming more efficient as it gains mastery. And that's what we see it during adolescence. As all the various skills of, teenage hood emerges, you become more socially aware you become more emotionally regulated you. And these are processes of learning. You don't suddenly become an emotionally regulated teenager. You learn, you, it's a process that you go through. You become far more cognitively adept. It's a really good thing most teenagers are at high school because they're learning, critical thinking and judgment and reasoning and problem solving. They're learning that intellectual kind of things. That they're being trained in those cognitive skills as their brains are primed to learn them. And we see cortex shrinking slightly in teenagers. And so we're quite happy to accept that story. The same thing is happening in mothers during their first pregnancy. And this is this fantastic study that came out of the Spanish research lab. It was three women came up with the idea, Susanna Carmona Erica Barbara Muller and Elselina Hoxheimer. And Elselina's now got it running her own brain, pregnancy brain lab in the Netherlands, which is her home country. And they realized back in 2009 that there were zero studies done of women's brains. Brain imaging studies. There were probably like 20, 000 studies of left handedness. I can't even tell you that the absolute lack of research that there has been in, in women's brains compared to like random stuff like left handed and they were like let's do the study that no, no one else in the whole world has ever thought of doing before. Let's look at women's brains before and after their first pregnancy using brain imaging. They were working in a brain imaging research lab. They were all in their early thirties. And so they included themselves in those studies. They weren't yet pregnant. None of them had a prior pregnancy and they were quite careful that they wanted women with no prior pregnancies. Scan their brains, fall pregnant, that's not as easy as you'd imagine. And then scan the brains afterwards. So it took quite a lot of time because if anyone's ever tried to get pregnant, doesn't always happen just precisely when you wanted to. So they had to work quite hard to recruit enough women into the study who had their brain scan and then also fell pregnant, had a successful pregnancy to look after. And then there were smart women they also studied the brains of the fathers of those babies, the male partners of these women before and after the pregnancy. Because then they said we've got a control here, we've got the kind of the psychological experience of parenthood and the actual act of parenting once the baby's on land. But they're not going through the biology of pregnancy. And what they found was this extraordinary change in the cortex. Some regions of cortex, this was 4 percent volume loss, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it's the biggest change that we see taking place in the brain. Outside of, that, that kind of those kind of first couple of decades of brain development. And it was quite and quite defined areas and it was the same regions and all of the women. It was in regions involved with social cognition. So relationships, so interacting with other people, mostly in areas of the brain involved with theory of mind and empathy. So that's. Theory of mind is thinking about what other people are thinking and making meaning of their thoughts and knowing they're a person separate from you.

And then also empathy, which is understanding someone else's, emotional state and interpreting all of that. And what do they need and what do they want and how can I give that to them? And who kind of, what would, evolution's kind of adaptive benefit be for becoming more tuned into what someone else needs and wants. It's not your next door neighbour or, your mom, it's this baby, because obviously it's pregnancy that has driven this change. And so pregnancy isn't just, preparing. Enabling a baby to grow inside you and perhaps prime your body for feeding that baby. Once the baby's born, if you're going to go ahead and breastfeed but it's preparing your brain, it's preparing your mind for motherhood. And essentially what we see with this refinement is much like adolescence and much like early childhood development. The brain becomes very, what we call plastic. It becomes very ready to learn by experience. It's not like it's changed and it's right here's motherhood uploaded. I'm going to be a mother once the baby's born, hasn't uploaded motherhood information. It's just in the state of readiness to learn and understand. And a baby basically it's the baby's cues and what a new babies do. They smell amazing. They're cute. You like, you can't keep your hands off them and then they cry. And so these woman's brains have been changed, like reorganized to tune in to baby and to understand and learn. Learning is a really important part of this. Learn to respond to this new little human. And take care of them and bigger everything else out there. We don't need to be worrying about the other stuff. That's why we're not, that's why we're forgetting it. Because the back brain has changed to focus in on keeping baby alive.

Amber-lee (Host): I've heard it be described before as your brain goes from me to we.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): That's a really nice way of saying it. I think what we don't know, and what I'm often asked is. Does that mean that we are tuned into every other human around us and that mothers are more empathic and have more kind of theory of mind? And that's controversial. It's not controversial in that we don't know. We're having to make leaps from studies over here to studies here and it's not clear. That then translates to every other relationship. Although, we evolved parent, not to parent alone. We didn't evolve to be solo mothers. We evolved to share parenting care. And so maybe there's something in that. What makes a new mom most vulnerable to postnatal depression and anxiety is not actually having social support. So maybe what a brain, it's brain's turned into the baby, but also what a brain needs is other people to support, because without that things tend to fall apart a bit. Yeah. So there might be something in there. And then, this was the study, it was published say January 2017, I think it was very cool.

And since then, these women have gone and gathered more data and done more analyses and looked at second pregnancies and tried to gather more information and when are the changes taking place? What's driving them? Does the degree of change reflect some kind of parenting behaviour? And some other researchers have gone in and looked at not just what the brain looks like, but how is it responding? So there's a researcher in Yale who Winnie Orchard's gone to work with called, Helena Rutherford in Yale. And she does EEG recording. Scalp through the scalp recordings of how a brain waves and how they respond, like to baby's cries and comparing like first time mothers with, experienced mothers. And that's really interesting because you can see these different wave forms, which kind of reflect so you've got the sound of the baby crying. Your ears hear the sound and then there's like the kind of, Oh gosh, that's my baby crying. What does that sound mean? Do I, do I jump up out of bed or do I give the baby a minute kind of thing? And you can see this kind of perception and cognition and behavior response in these different brainwaves. And you can see as women become more experienced with motherhood with subsequent babies, it becomes less reactive. So as women become less reactive, the brain is also reacting less because we know what we're doing. But that first, the first motherhood, first experience of motherhood, brains are very reactive. They're almost hyper responsive. It's almost as if we become very hypervigilant. And again, that might not feel particularly useful or good or comforting I remember and like just my personal anecdotes around this were first baby Standard pregnancy standard birth no baby brain out. He came it's an enormous boy but he came out and he latched on. The midwife was like, he was born to feed this baby. And I was just like, what is happening to me? And I was quite stunned as you are for the first day or so. And then they came into the I was in the maternity hospital and and. Like feeling put out that I had to actually wake up in the middle of the night to look after this little human. I wasn't, I don't know what I was really feeling.

I was just and then they did the heel prick and I remember he screamed as babies do with the heel prick. And I just felt this like feeling inside, it was like this primal biological response to his cry. And I nearly, I wanted to push the nurse away and I like, and I burst into tears and I'd never in my life felt empathy like that before. I'd always, Oh, dad, you having a hip replacement. I hope it goes well. I didn't feel it. I thought it probably the right thing to say and do is to be kind to my dad. If he's having his hip replaced or I saw someone else cry or be sad or like I would it was almost like I had to tell myself to respond. But then when this was like my body, my, my soul, was responding and I'd never felt that before and that was quite not shocking, but it just was like, wow, this is I am mother listen to this is wild. This is motherhood. And then, the anxiety and the, I went home and I read my heart rate was always so high and I couldn't sleep, always be checking on him and those first few weeks I was quite like nervy and anxious and you're sitting on one bum cheek, and you're and my husband's there. We didn't have family and in Sydney where I live. So it was first few weeks were wow. And I was all, and I remember being too scared to walk into the, we had a lounge room and then off that was like a sunroom, but they had balcony doors out and we were on the third level up of an apartment. And I was too scared to walk from the lounge room into the sunroom just in case somehow the doors opened and he fell. out of the balcony. Like we'd have to go through the doors and onto the balcony and off the balcony. I was convinced he was going to fall out a window or out the car door or down the stairs.

And those intrusive thoughts are really common for men as well, particularly for first time moms. But that's your hypervigilance. That's again, your body has changed. Your brain has changed. Evolution needs you to be hypervigilant because you're learning to keep a new human alive. You almost have to become hyper fixated on this new human. The issue is if that kind of anxiety persists, then it can turn into postnatal anxiety. If it interferes with your day to day life beyond the first, few weeks of motherhood, then it could potentially become an issue. But initially it's. It's kind of part of our biological blueprint. Everyone's baby is going to roll down the stairs and out the window or at the back of the car. Second babies, that doesn't happen to in your mind as much.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. Which is so interesting. And I remember reading about this in your book as well. Yeah. I have all, and I stand by this to this day. I chat with my friends about this all the time. I'm like going from zero to one children was incredibly difficult in comparison to one to two. Like I felt like that transition was so much easier. I knew what recovery from birth would be like. I knew that my baby would cry all night long. Like I expected the sleep deprivation. Like I just, I knew what I was in for, but my brain was also okay with it. Whereas the first time I did have that hypervigilance, I did have those thoughts and I did experience a lot of what you said.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): I wished I knew then what I know now. But I don't think we knew as much then as even we know now I didn't know that matrescence was this process I was already going through at that point in time. I thought motherhood would just be something I would adapt to and come easy like everything else happened. I've figured it out. I've got my content. I've done the research. I'll figure it out. It will really all be about this baby and feeding and nappies and schedules or not and mother's groups. I didn't realize that I had also changed, that I would change. I wish I had a known then and now I'm, I give myself so much more grace and kindness and cause teenage motherhood is a, is another whole psychological gaming. And I am so much kinder to myself as a parent. Now, knowing what I know, I wished I could have given myself that grace then.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk about maternal instincts then, because you've talked a lot about how like skills in motherhood are learned and there's maternal instinct. There's lots of people that talk about it and I, when I think about what you've said in regards to learning and this maternal instinct, I'll call it a phenomenon. After my firstborn, I had this sudden urge to want to breastfeed prior to this. I did not care. It was like, whatever happens, but I had this huge urge that I need to feed my baby from my body. I had no idea where this came from or I had no way to explain it. However, breastfeeding was incredibly difficult. So it was like, while I had this instinct to breastfeed, I didn't actually have the skills or the knowledge to breastfeed. To breastfeed. And that was something that I had to learn. So do maternal instincts exist? Is it a real thing? And how do we explain it?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): I think it's I became interested in this because it was another book on kind of maternal brain came out when I was writing this. And the author of That book, Chelsea Connor, boy, I think my book's better. Wrote a piece for the New York times. And I don't know whether it was her headline or the New York times editors came up with it, but it was along the lines of maternal instinct. There's a myth that men created. And it was this idea that this word maternal instinct is just designed to keep women strapped to the home and, let men do what they like. It was this kind of patriarchal sort of discourse. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting because I'm, I was a bit more sort of new, not neutral about that, but I was like we've got what we would call maternal behaviors or stereotyped behaviors that we see roll out in different animals. And sheep have actually been studied quite a lot in terms of maternal behaviors. I suppose there's a lot of them around and they have lambs once a year. And you can look at their, that's their stereotype behaviors, all the little scurrying animals in the lab. And there's various stereotype behaviors that they will perform. And so I was like we have what, whether we call them instincts or not, I was like how do we define this? Because when you do neuroscience, you've got to ask very careful Specific precise questions. So there's a bit of linguistics and analysis in there as well, about the language that we're using to describe experiences. And I was reading through the New York Times comment section on this piece, cause it just went wild. And I was like, not everyone has the same definition of maternal instinct. I thought, that's really interesting. So I, again, I surveyed my readers. Which I was doing while I was writing the book. And I was like, what does the phrase maternal instinct mean to you? And it meant different things to different people. So for some women it meant, or parents, cause I had like granddads and all kinds of people responding to the survey mostly mothers, but not all. They took maternal instinct to be what we might call the ticking biological clock. I never wanted kids. Then suddenly in my thirties, I desperately wanted children. I developed the strong maternal instinct I'd never had before. Or other women might say I , never felt maternal instinct or drive. So I never had children. So they took it to be the urge to have children. Other people took it to be that feeling. They had the first moment they held their new baby in their arms that either that you're going to overwhelming love.

Like I've known you my whole life. Which I felt with my second, but with my first, for the first day or two, I was like, huh? Until the heel prick test and then suddenly I was like, whoa, that's maternal instinct. So different, and different people will have, different experiences of those first moments of motherhood.

And there's an expectation that you feel overwhelming love and complete understanding. And if you don't, then there's a lot of guilt and shame. And there's all kinds of issues that can come from like, how you believe you should be feeling like in that first moment. So if that defines the entire course of motherhood and then others took it more to mean like what you were saying, like you there's, It's not so much about knowing the baby. It's just about wanting to perform motherhood. You've had this urge that you never had before. And then others, whether you had it or not, and then other, others took it to mean knowing your child once, your child was older, like you, you pick up your child and they're five years old from primary school. And the second they walk out of the classroom door and you see your face, you know that they're not well, or they haven't had a good day. You just, you feel it before you even consciously think it and so some people took that to mean maternal instinct and so you've got very different definitions here.

And so that's what I was like, what are we even meaning by this? And how much expectation we placing on ourselves to feel this thing, which we can't even have a collective definition for. And that's why looking at other mammals is useful because they haven't got all of the crap and all the baggage, expectations of what to expect when you're expecting that humans carry around. They just are these biological beings for a large part of that. And a newborn lamb isn't always cared a lot of you living on a sheep farm because some mothers neglect that lamb. So giving birth doesn't necessarily guarantee that the behaviors will be rolled out in this stereotypical fashion in an identical way in everyone. And I think this is why we need to go back to the idea of Motherhood is a learned kind of craft that we're learning from the people who are around us, whether that be the nurses in the hospital or your mom or your aunts or your sisters or your husband or, your grandparents, whoever's around you. The feelings emerge in different people trajectories. And if you've been a mother for long enough, you end up with a nearly 16 year old son and you're like still figuring this thing out.

Amber-lee (Host): I find that's just really interesting with what you were just saying particularly in regards to bonding because this is something I did want to bring up with you from a neuroscientist perspective. And we're talking about this maternal empathy and like the brain changes that we've had and how, most mothers do feel the heel prick or the vaccinations or, whatever's happening to their baby. Some women experience that instant bond and some women do not. Is there an explanation for this?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): I don't think that there necessarily is and Like maybe the thing is we could look at a thousand mothers and go, okay, and can we get them to grade? their degree of feelings of attachment to that within the first 10 minutes of meeting their baby and then go You know, I don't know Did they have a epidural? Did they have a cesarean? Did they have a natural birth? Was it straightforward? Did they perceive it as traumatic? Was it traumatic? There's all of these different variables in there. And we might see some trends in the data if we looked at a thousand women, but then every woman's experience is going to be so different. And then, cause this is what we do with motherhood. We reflect it back on ourselves and go clearly I don't, I'm not the ideal, or I'm not reacting in a way that I should. And I think that there's. Part of it is, which I think is damaging, is this expectation that you should feel this complete and utter 100 percent attachment to this new baby the moment you lay eyes on it, no matter how they got there into your arms. And I don't think that any mammal experience is that. It's a process. It's a process of learning who they are and figuring them out and starting to synchronize with them. We can talk about synchrony in a minute. There is the so some of the data that they looked at can we. see how the woman's brains, we've got these new moms, these Spanish women, and they would look to see, can we get some gauge on the degree of change? And is that, does that in some way map to how attached they report that they feel with the baby or how easy that process was? And there's a trend, but I don't think we can safely say much. To be perfectly honest, based on the data that the greater the degree of the brain change, the greater the degree of the volume change, which as far as when I was just driven by hormones the easier it was for that woman to adjust to interacting with that baby.

But, there's these, that's very gray, that data. Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of discussion focusing in on the actual day of birth and the days around that as if that's the main kind of what, that's the only time that, motherhood matters and the only time you can form that attachment, it can come in time. And I think that's, what's important and that's what, and so I've got a whole chapter in there around and I don't get too much into attachment because I think it's also like an emotionally laden word with a lot of different meanings. Of course, baby babies can't bring themselves up. We've got, the extremes, the Romanian orphans who were born and put in orphanages and basically kept in a cot and they were had their nappies changed and they were fed and watered. They weren't given any love or care or human interaction or nurturing or to and fro. And that's an extreme case of a child who doesn't have attachment.

But then, if you're concerned about attachment, it's a bit like anything, if you're worrying about how attached you are to your baby, it's actually probably all right. Yeah. You've got, and then, a baby in Niku and, we've got like the kangaroo care that we now do, that we understand how fundamentally important it is to have the skin to skin.You probably not got NICUs anymore that aren't letting the mothers touch the babies once the babies are well enough to be able to be held. So I think if you're concerned about it, you're probably fine, like most things to do with motherhood. And I think that the research on synchrony is interesting because what that does is almost give us some neurobiological correlates. So if you've held a new little baby in your arms and it's pulling, it's doing those funny little faces. It does. It's person that's lips or opening and closing its mouth. And most adults as they're interacting with that baby will. And, a healthy, mom will probably mimic the baby's expression and touch and talk to the baby. And there'll be this almost like this, the beginnings of a conversation, a to and fro. And what that's doing is synchronizing the mother's behavior with the baby's behavior, the baby's behavior with the mother's behavior. And over time, we start to see a biological synchrony. You might see heart rate. It's rising and falling and breathing rates, rising and falling. So we're almost teaching the baby how to be in the world and how a nervous system reacts in the world by interacting with them. And the really cool research, which is quite new is recording from the baby's brain and the mother's brain or the caregiver's brain at the same time. And looking to see what happens with brain waves as we see synchrony, Or if we say lack of synchrony, or we've got a baby and a stranger have never met, what facilitates This biological synchrony, we can see brainwaves start to synchronize too, and now we're starting to tease out, what is it about those interactions, which are bringing these two kind of bodies together in harmony.

The smell, of course, smell is so important for synchrony. Babies will synchronize with strangers if they have a mother's t shirt, the smell of a mother's t shirt with them. And then obviously to and fro, like conversations and shared actions and shared attention. So this is a, this is if we couldn't think about, this is the biology of attachment. And you've, you come together and you come apart and you come together. You've got rest and reparation, and it might break and come back. This is a process that can be worked on through a lifespan. It's not limited to birth. And the days you're in the hospital with the baby perhaps going, God, I have to look after this baby now for the rest of my life. And you might even, not even just feel like nothing. You might feel resentment. That doesn't mean that there isn't a lifetime of. Synchrony and engagement and toing and froing that can't be built on and worked on through the lifespan. And then you've got teenagers. And now I'm like, how do I synchronize with a 16-year-old boy?

It's really hard. It's very it's constantly changing.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. What I actually found interesting about this synchronization was you talk obviously a lot about parents to their children, but you also talked about like singers in a choir and how their heartbeats synchronize and how you're all cheering on the same football team in the big stadium and how like that's really interesting.

It's fascinating to me, just like we as humans are synchronizing with each other.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): There's feelings of trust and rapport and being on the same wavelength as someone else. It's not just. Dyads, it's not just parents and children. It's humans, it's people. It's almost like the social glue that kind of, yeah, it's so fast on genetically unrelated people together. Yeah. And there's so many cool studies coming out and this is, it's quite a new science we've always done all of our social brain neuroscience, I say an isolated captivity. So someone's lying flat on their back in a brain scanner and we've looked at how their brain reacts to photos of people they know or the sound of a baby cry or whatever. We're not actually looking at a real life social interaction, but if we use EEG and now the kind of technology sophisticated enough and the analysis of the data is sophisticated enough, we can look at people interacting in real time. So going back to the pregnancy, mother maternal brain, can you delve into the role hormones play during pregnancy and motherhood and how they influence brain and behavior? Cause I know you've touched on this as we've gone through, but was there anything specific you think is worth mentioning? Yeah. Yeah. As I was writing baby brains, research was coming out and I was scrambling to include it at the edit stage and I was still putting more research in. So in terms of what's driving the sort of structural reorganization we see and I haven't seen when we do the sort of the functional brain imaging, like how's the brain functioning, we see that the maternal brain is flexible and efficient and swift to respond. It's, not as sluggish as a non pregnant brain.

So there's definitely enhancement there of how the networks and the nodes communicate with each other. And so what drives all that? And it's got to be pregnancy. The changes we see in the father's brains are minuscule. And sometimes they go one way and sometimes they go another, and it's all experience dependence. We'll set aside the men. We know it's of pregnancy. It's probably what's happening in the third trimester of pregnancy and they've refined it down to thinking it's largely driven by the form of estrogen, which is released during pregnancy. And it's in sky, sky high levels. You get in one pregnancy, you'll get more of a dose of estrogen than you get in the entire rest of your lifespan combined. If you're in the menopause conversation, we're all worrying about HRT and estrogen replacement or not or what and you know if you've had pregnancies you've already had like your life more than a lifetime dose but you just had it all in one go and we think that's what's driving the reorganization because we've got quite clear data that even over the course of a menstrual cycle the rise and fall of estrogen causes neurons to flourish and be pruned or refined or flourish you would in the garden if you were clipping buds on a tree. So it's probably largely driven by estrogen during the third trimester of pregnancy. People are always really interested in talking about oxytocin and prolactin because they're the two hormones which really come into play during labor and delivery and during lactation. Oxytocin isn't really a big player during most of pregnancy. It's levels are not that much higher than they would be. If you were not pregnant but it really comes into play and it was first discovered, as they called it the hormone of swift birth. That we, and we know it's starts to be released during the early stages of labor and it helps encourage the uterus to contract. And during pregnancy, the uterus becomes super sensitive to, oxytocin. It's like it's priming itself with all of its little receptors to receive the signal. And then once labor starts, this kind of positive feedback loop kicks in. And we also see rising levels of the hormone prolactin during pregnancy as well, which is involved with oxytocin and prolactin during lactation kind of work together to manufacture milk and release milk.

They almost kind of work like a partnership. Most of the changes that we see taking place during pregnancy come about via prolactin, not so much oxytocin. It's got, I don't know, I think one of the researchers said that it was like, they've got over 200 different kind of roles that they know it plays in the body and the brain. Everything from regulating appetite during pregnancy to shifts in thermoregulation, to labor and delivery. So all these kind of hormones, this is intricate kind of dance of these hormones, which is evolved over the years. And I think what's interesting is, We have these hormones that are released into our bloodstream from our brain, that change and shape how our body responds, lactation, breastfeeding, labor and delivery, but they're also released into our brain as neurotransmitters and they shape and change behaviors and feelings. And there is, this idea that oxytocin is the kind of, I always say, mother nature's intention. But the idea is that oxytocin makes you want to bond and love and, love on someone. Get up close and cuddle with them like a baby. And so if you've got sky high levels of oxytocin during labor and delivery, despite the fact you've given birth vaginally, it really hurts. It's very, it's a big physical thing to go through. There's the oxytocin in your brain that's still encouraging you to nuzzle into this little baby, even though it was the cause of the pain. And that's the theory and that is often the way it plays out, but it doesn't happen in a woman all of the time.

And I think the problem is there's always the caveat, there's always the exception, but that doesn't mean that. A large majority of the time that is the kind of intention. And it's, so then, we've got these higher levels of oxytocin all through that time where we're breastfeeding which facilitates social interactions, but oxytocin isn't just all about love and cuddles. And I think, we can try and oversimplify neuroscience so much. Oxytocin is pro social, but it also has this knock on effect of or a benefit really the mama bear response. We say, don't approach a mum bear and her cubs because she'll come after you. That's because she's lactating. That's because oxytocin gives her bravery and it gives her aggressive tendencies and it does that for all mammals. We are, not wanting to date and mate. We're breastfeeding. We don't want to like go and make more babies. We're quite protective of our babies and we don't want people getting too up and close and personal with us. And we can, and if we feel threatened or we feel unsafe, we can feel really angry. And a lot of women experience anger. Like for the first time, I'd never experienced anger really before motherhood, not in the way that I Struggled with it. And it's, it feels like a very shameful feeling. Like anger's very, it's not something that women should experience, I've since learned what oxytocin can make you more prone to anger. If you feel uncomfortable or annoyed or whatever, because that's the intention is to the other, it makes you more susceptible to your in group, but more sensitive and negative towards your out group.

Amber-lee (Host): As I was reading your book and I wanted to ask you about mothers who have lost. How does a brain adapt. It's been, changed to take care of a baby that is no longer there. Do we know anything about this?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): No data on that. But bear in mind, just because there's no data doesn't mean no one cares. I think it's really important when it comes to a lot of this. So the pregnancy study that was published in 2017, they started on that in 2009. Yeah. And they had to get women, they had to get willing study participants. Who give consent, who are happy to continue. So say you are interested in going, what happens to a woman's brain if she miscarries in the first, second, third trimester has a stillbirth, you have to get women to consent to being part of a study. And it's gonna be probably, it's hard enough to get women anyway. Yeah. Let alone woman who are going through grief. Yeah. I think the fact that we don't know doesn't mean that people don't care. Science is hard. It is hard to do good science well.

But if we just looked at this, theoretically women's brains would be changed by, and most of the changes are taking place in the third trimester.So if you have a stillbirth, your baby's, your brain is primed to mother and you haven't got the baby now, I know what I think the focus should be on not getting that woman quickly into a brain scan to see what happens over the next few months. Yeah. In terms of early stage miscarriages, there's a little bit of research out there on this concept of what we call microchimerism, now, in theory, what happens is that your immune system goes through and sweeps out all of, your babies. Once the baby's born, the baby cells out of you, because you're not going to want to react to another sort of organism cells in you. But some of them do Become embedded and studies have been done looking at same older women, looking at their like post mortem analyses of like their brains and they find like scattered through, they might find male cells scattered through and they found them in their lungs and their heart and in their brains. And these are and the reason it's easier to, it's easier to look for the male cells and the female body because of just the way we identify cells. Imagine you'd stain male cells, red and female cells, green. If you were the mother and you'd only had daughters, you're not going to see green cells, but the red cells would pop like the analogy is like poppies in a field of grain.

So you'll see the red cells and all that, where those male cells come from. They came from if she's carried male children. And there have been some studies done whereby women have had early miscarriages and then they've gone on to only have daughters. And the assumption may be that some of the males That's a wonderful and I think that, because it's not just the baby that was lost.It was a male, they sales became embedded in the mother. Which is quite nice. Yeah. And so I find that comforting having teenage sons. Yeah. I carry a little bit of them with me in my heart. But what that means biologically, we're not entirely sure. Yeah. So I think for some women, not all, some women find a little bit of comfort in that. But again, that's pretty new, like very sort of niche science. When we, we're not really at the point of knowing quite what to make of it yet. Apart from describing it really.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. I have heard that before. I did want to ask you about the fascinating changes we have found in fathers or non birthing parents and the science behind this and how factors like testosterone levels play a role. Can you talk to that?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Yeah. My Spanish neuroscientists, when they designed their first study, as I said, they included the fathers of the babies and these are all heterosexual couples. As a control group. And there was a study that was underway sort of 2019, 2020 came along and Melbourne looking at lesbian couples. So the non female, non birthing parent. What happened in her brain. Unfortunately, I think they got about seven subjects or something and then COVID hit. And so I don't, I'm not sure whether that study has ever been completed, which is a real shame, but it's hard to do good science well. And it takes time. And as I say, just because the data's not there yet, doesn't mean there's not lots of people thinking about it and wanting to do it. But So we're limited with kind of the birth, the biological father's data at this stage in time. And that's interesting because. If we compared the father's brains to the mother's brains after the first pregnancy, the mother's brains changed an extraordinary amount and the father's brains changed not at all. But if they just looked just at the father's brains and then gathered in some more men so we had more data, you could see actually there was a bit of variation between the men. And it wasn't in the same parts of the brain that we saw in women. It was on all different kinds of brain areas and the men and some got a little bit bigger and some got a little bit smaller and some didn't change at all. And it averaged out to nothing. But what they did discover was that it was dose dependent. So how and this is the same for any new thing that you learn or new activity you start doing, it will change your brain. So the more without wanting to use the tri with the term hands-on father. But everyone knows what I mean by that. The more hands-on the dad was, the more his brain changed. And of course, fatherhood is dose dependent 'cause some men are the, have a conception only and are never seen again. And others are the primary caregiver and maybe the sole caregiver. So the father's showed this kind of dose dependent response. The testosterone story drives, makes men's minds explode.

Amber-lee (Host): That made my mind explode. I actually found that so fascinating.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): I love it because they find it confronting. What studies have done looking at, because, I've got the whole oxytocin story, oxytocin is all about bonding and whether that be, mating and dating or fathering or what. And we know that during mating and dating and then during fatherhood, actually oxytocin, there was kind of state kind of level and high. That's not like one or the other is more or less influential on oxytocin, but studies looking at men's, testosterone levels when they become fathers, their testosterone actually plummets. And I think this is Mother Nature's hilarious kind of trick up her sleeve. Because if you've got a high T, high oxytocin man, he just wants to mate and date. And if you've got a new little family, you don't want him to keep on mating and dating. Actually, it would be quite nice if he stuck around to help. And so the oxytocin high is encouraging paternal caregiving. It's not encouraging more baby making. So the more engaged, so there's almost like this feedback loop. The more engaged they are with fathering, the more likely they are to continue fathering and showing paternal caregiving behaviors. And this has been looked at in different populations around the world. Interestingly, a lot of it's actually being done in the Philippines and a large longitudinal study of men's health over there. And men find this quite confronting.

And it was hilarious when my first book came out and I was interviewed by a shock doc, one of those kind of shock jock old blokes on the radio station in Melbourne and we were talking through this data, the baby brain. And I threw in the bit about the testosterone 'cause I knew that it would tweak his knobs, . And and then I got off and then he ended up having a big call, a talk back, radio call in with all these men cause he was like, do you feel like your masculinity has been, challenged or diminished by fatherhood? Which is just ridiculous kind of take on it. And then the next day, then the next day it was picked up by Carl Stefanovic who heard the shock jock session and so then Carl Stefanovic decided to get Dr.Nick Coatsworth in to talk about baby brain and how it impacts men. Nevermind the fact that I was doing all my book. Yeah. Yeah. No. So the men had a little chat about baby brain amongst themselves. Luckily Nick Coatsworth actually was quite on the ball and kind of talk them down a bit. But men find it incredibly confronting. There's a research group in LA and they've gone in and looked at what do we see in like family groups where you've got like high T men versus low T men. Interestingly, there is a mental health vulnerability with the kind of the lower testosterone. It does make men more vulnerable than a high T guy who'll be a little bit more resilient to depression, but the family group is much happier. Yeah. And the higher T guy is, the more disharmony there is within that family group because that kind of almost by default means he's not engaging in the parenting. He's not showing as much paternal care as someone who's T is lower and is more engaged in paternal care. And then overall that the kind of that that the kind of report from that family is one of more harmony. So parenting is we've got hormones, but it's in an ecosystem, but we are these humans in these ecosystems. Our families are ecosystems, our interactions with each other. A changing our hormone levels, which are reinforcing behaviors is all of these positive and negative feedback loops going on all of the time. And then, we've got men focusing solely on their testosterone level out and understanding of how that is impacting their life. The relationships they're having with people, which I think is really interesting. And mother nature usually knows what she's doing. And in this case, she would quite like a father to be present.

Amber-lee (Host): Yes. And I actually think that's fascinating. Cause when I think about like my husband, he is Filipino, he is from a culture that being a parent is you're very prideful and it's expected and it's encouraged and yeah, and it's if you're not an involved father, you're a pathetic person that is very much…

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): because that longitudinal study has gone in and looked at the sons of the fathers who were raised, if there was a high T dad who was less engaged versus a low T dad who was super engaged. And that's not the only metric, but it's quite, it's falls out. What was the relationship with the fathers and the sons like when the boys went into their teenage years? And all of the studies and that come out of this Filipino longitudinal study of men's health at awesome because they talk so much about how fatherhood is revered. And as soon as a real gift.

Amber-lee (Host): Absolutely. I'm like, we could use more of that over here. I found that fascinating and I read that part to my husband out loud and he was like, it makes perfect sense.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Yeah. I know. It's really fascinating. And it's. And I think particularly the current kind of Zeitgeist of as I call them the ice bath boys, and I like calling them boys, I will call them boys cause I'm nearly 50 and I can say whatever I like. There's just this massive focus on the self optimization and I just don't believe you can self optimize as a human. worst. Nurturing warm, loving relationships with the people around you. I don't think the two kind of fit together. Those boys all just still stay single in their little ice baths together. And I have teenage boys also, I'm just surrounded by testosterone. It's dripping off the ceilings.

Amber-lee (Host): We can't talk about the brain without talking about mental health. I just find that really important and also sleep deprivation because of the experiences and comments that are made around those two things. Do we have a neuroscientific explanation for perinatal depression? And how does sleep deprivation impact our brains?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): I think I always come back to what I call there's a biopsychosocial model of health and wellbeing and my take on it, which puts the brain in the middle, which is thinking about, anything to do with if we're trying to neuroscience mental health, I put a neuroscience lens on that. Let's use my model where we think about what's changing in the bottom up body. How has the biology changed? How is you know, everything out there changed like your relationships with other people this new human whether it's still inside you or not How has your actual brain changed your perceptions of self your expectations, your thoughts so if we're looking at something like postnatal depression, we know it's an incredibly vulnerable point in life. And if you are vulnerable to develop mental health issues, let's just say depression when you go through big stressful changes, even if they're wanted and longed for, you are more vulnerable in those times. And particularly, during pregnancy and early motherhood, you're vulnerable physiologically, you're vulnerable socially, you're vulnerable psychologically, you're vulnerable spiritually. So there's a lot of levers there that we can push and pull and everyone's going to be or different weights we can give to all of these different aspects and everyone's going to be in a different situation. But there is going to be vulnerability, but there's also a lot of opportunity there to put in protective measures as well. And we know that, the people, the woman who are most vulnerable are those that lack any social support or help who are having to rush off back to work straight away, perhaps, or don't have anyone to help them learn to become a mother who have perhaps had a difficult birth, physiologically difficult, stressful, traumatic pregnancy, who aren't physically well or perhaps have gone in with quite, set expectations about how motherhood's going to play out for them based on the messages that they've absorbed all through their lifespan. So you've got as I say, there's a lot of levers there that we can push or pull and different women are going to be vulnerable for different reasons. But it is a time of big change. We're also coming off the highs of all of the, the estrogen and all of the hormones of pregnancy and labor and delivery. So it's a big mix. There's almost a perfect storm there. So it's a time when we really do need to nurture women. And then of course, adding on top of that, a time of great vulnerability. You've also going through perhaps in a period of extreme sleep deprivation, just by virtue of the fact that you've got to feed a baby and it may not settle and it might cry and it might not sleep at night or whatever. So sleep deprivation is just going to exacerbate all of that and different people are going to be more or less sleeping. vulnerable resilient and I know I found it a lot harder with my first baby there's not really anyway around it except through it But this is where you, and there's a line I use in the book that comes from a psychiatrist who says that you've got to call in the cavalry. And again, it comes to support. So how can we support a new mom who's gone through all of this big change to be able to sleep when she can? And it's people say it's all very well to tell her to sleep when she can. She shouldn't be doing everything alone. That's right. She should be able to sleep because other people have made it possible for her to do that.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. We need a more mother centered approach to family life. I find at the moment it's very baby focused, you're pregnant, how's the baby? Have you felt the baby kick? I'm usually asking you how you feel, and then the baby's born and that's a whole another thing.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Yeah. It was interesting because, a lot of the kind of, I try and have a lot of interactions with my audience when I'm writing my books to help sort out my thoughts to see what people's responses are. And I put a post up, I was this idea about calling the cavalry and one way we can protect new mother's mental health is to provide support for her. We've got other people who might be helping with feeding overnight and then, some breastfeeding advocates came in and said you're going to disrupt feeding. When I. Put this out there one of the kind of the breastfeeding advocates said woman's mental health is important, but it should never come. I know what's coming. Before breastfeeding. Yeah. And I was like, I just so what the priority here is the baby's fed breast milk. The mother's mental health doesn't matter. We should sacrifice a mother's mental health for the baby to breastfeed. We should be trying to do both. And if the mother's, formula feeding and is healthy and well and can be there for her baby in the way she wants. That's okay. I was quite shocked that there was still that attitude out there like very much. So breast is best at all costs and it should not be at all costs. Yeah. So I think, gosh, there's so many expectations. It's so hard. And it's like you said, it's not mother centered. Yeah. And it's not fair. And it shouldn't up be up to new moms to be organizing that for themselves.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. I am curious to know your thoughts here. What was the most surprising or unexpected thing. in writing your book or in the research either yourself or others were doing with the brain changes and motherhood. What surprised you the most?

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): That foundational study was published. That was like, that was the foundation for writing the book. And that shifted all of my thinking when I was writing my first book as well. This is, and I hate to use the word journey, but matrescence is a process that you go through during pregnancy and during motherhood. Not a moment in time and it's not just a baby emerges and then there's a mom. I think for me, it wasn't a surprising thing for me. It was like, I wished I had have known that when my babies were being born, when I was becoming a mother I would have been, I would have made all the, all of the difference in the world to me. Yeah.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. Matrescence is powerful. And I certainly remember the first time I heard that word. Cause I was walking around saying, how do you have a baby and never be the same? I'm just, I'm so different. I'm so different. And I'd be saying this and then a couple of months after I'd had my first, I found the word matrescence and the rest is history, but yeah, absolutely such a helpful thing to learn about.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): But also, I think also that, the messages I'd like to get out there we always just have this deficit focus. It's always bad. It's always emotional instability and cognitive decline and brain fog and I'm not working well. When that's just, there are all these upsides and it's almost like we don't want to look at them or know about them. And that's to our own disservice

Amber-lee (Host): I just think they're not valued.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): Don't ignore your deficits, but also understand that there are strengths and there are upsides and there are benefits and how can you work within the kind of the constraints of your biology, particularly early on, you haven't got you have got baby brain, but baby brain as a benefit to you. And I think that, and there's this real kind of focus right now, particularly in Australia, we're always talking about getting women back to work and yeah and superannuation and all of the deficits that come with motherhood and they all seem to be spreadsheet focused. And women should be getting back to work as quick as possible. And so we need to put, we need childcare and all of that. And lots of women do need that, but we're not thinking about what are some of the other aspects of that.

Amber-lee (Host): I thoroughly enjoyed your book. I really hope everybody reads it cause you bust a lot of myths and you spit some facts and I find it fascinating and very helpful. My children are, I three and five, so I'm still in the thick of that, yeah. But being able to now have some language and understanding around what baby brain is and it's not what we think it is. Yes, I appreciate that so much. Thank you so much for your time.

Dr Sarah McKay (Guest): You're so welcome.

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In this enlightening episode, host Amber-lee, delves into the complex web of anger and rage in motherhood with guest Yara Heary, a dedicated psychologist from Life After Birth Psychology. They explore the nuances of anger as both a valid and misunderstood emotion, distinct yet connected to the journey of mothering. The conversation traverses the landscape of societal expectations, cultural contexts, and the barriers that mothers face, illuminating the intricate ways in which support systems, or the lack thereof, shape our experiences, while sharing their own mothering experiences with rage. Aimed at breaking down stigmas and navigating the turbulent waters of maternal emotions, this episode offers insights into reclaiming power, finding community, and the transformational paths through the protective emotion of anger.

This episode is a powerful listen and I hope it brings you some relief, but also the motivation to find support where you need it.

Yara's Why Am I So Angry self paced course is available here: https://lifeafterbirthpsychology.podia.com/why-am-i-so-angry

Work with Yara or listen to her podcast: https://www.lifeafterbirth.com.au/

TRANSCRIPT:

Amber-lee (Host):

Have you ever wondered, why am I so angry? Have you ever exploded in a way that felt confusing or scary or shameful to you? Is anger or rage just out of character, but that's your current experience? Do little things tip you over the edge? I'm here to tell you that you are not alone.

Anger in motherhood is very common, and in the words of today's guest, Yara Heary, we have so many reasons to be angry. I'm thrilled to have Yara from Life After Birth Psychology joining me on the podcast today, talking all things anger. She is a dedicated psychologist based in Fremantle, Western Australia. After becoming a mother herself, she grew the desire to work with other mothers. She is loud about social justice issues, perinatal support, and of course, taking care of you. So naturally, I was drawn to her. She also hosts her own fabulous podcast life after birth with Yara, which I highly recommend. She also offers coaching programs, professional mentorships, and personalized one on one sessions. And my personal favourite, her online self paced course. Why am I so angry? Make sure you see the show notes for that one. Yara, thank you so much for being here today.

Yara (Guest): Beautiful. Yes. Hi.

Amber-lee (Host): Have been wanting to talk about rage for a really long time.And this was something that I definitely experienced after my second baby back in 2020. And I went on to share. About a year later, my experience on another podcast, the Nurture Village podcast. And I received an overwhelming response from so many other mothers that were saying “me too”, which it surprised me, but then it didn't surprise me at the same time, but I've been looking since then for the perfect person to have this conversation with. I felt really drawn to you because you had this effortless and natural, you just showed up authentically, but knowing that you were a psychologist as well. And so assuming that you have resources to deal with these big emotions and things, but you were still showing that you're a human and we have ruptures and we have these tough days. It just made me feel a little bit better that I could see not only your professionalism, but also that personal part of you as well.

In saying all of that, what led you to become a perinatal psychologist and work in the perinatal space or work with parents?

Yara (Guest): I went through my own experience of becoming a mother and the challenges that come with that. Very similar to the women who are probably listening, I struggled with my own sense of identity with my place in the world again, with my relationships. And in fact, the relationship struggles that I had when I first became a mother were, was the thing, was the sort of catalyst in terms of really focusing in on perinatal work. So I remember going into becoming a mother or motherhood, believing that because I was a psychologist and I had worked as a nanny for many years while I was studying that I knew everything and that I would be fine and that I wouldn't have the struggles that other people talk about and that our relationship in any way because we were really strong and confident in our relationship and we had all these beautiful elements and ways of relating, which is much easier to have when you don't have children taking your attention and draining your life force. I went into being a mother with that and then got slapped in the face when I actually entered motherhood and did lots of crying and lots of wondering about, is this relationship worthwhile and maybe I should leave and this isn't anything like I thought it was going to be and this is really hard and there was all the bringing up of old stuff from a long time ago that comes up when you're a mother as well, which was pretty huge and continues to be a big part of my journey.

I was already a psychologist by that point, but I was doing more kind of general work. I'd worked in drug and alcohol. I'd worked in inpatient psychiatric wards and I had done some private practice work myself. So that just means that I'm running my own business, but it was more seeing people along the entire journey of life basically. Of course, as I journeyed through my own mothering experience and came to understand all the other sorts of challenges that we go through. Then obviously they came into my line of focus and that then took over. So they know that they're not going crazy. They know that they're normal. They know that lots of other women are experiencing what they are experiencing and to ultimately get to the point where women can actually come to understand that these changes that they go through are actually an upgrade. That is not intended to diminish the growth that women go through who choose not to have children, because I want to be really clear about that. There are lots of different ways to be growing and evolving and upgrading in life. This is just one of them. But I think that in our culture, the changes that we experience as mothers are undervalued and are not seen as important, they are not supported in the same way that women or people in general may grow and evolve in different aspects of their lives or in different kinds of experiences.

So my thing is very much about women understanding that this experience that they go through, the matrescence and onwards throughout that journey, is like there's power in that and of course that doesn't mean it's not messy and hard and painful but there's a lot of power in that and I really want to help women understand that. I want to help women or mothers understand that they get to choose how they want to do motherhood, that they get to own their anger and the things that they're angry about that anger can be alchemized into creating positive change in the world and in their individual lives as well.

Amber-lee (Host): I love that. That's so powerful. I absolutely relate to that as well. But I just I'm finding often that the best experts, professionals, people in this space are the ones who have lived experience. There's just something about how that lived experience informs their practice. And I find that it obviously you can have success without the lived experience as a professional with your clients and your therapeutic relationship and the therapeutic outcomes.

But there's just something extra about that

Yara (Guest): Yeah, I think it's that thing of having walked through the fire, isn't it? When you have lived experience, there's a different. There's nuance in the experience that you can understand. Like I remember before working in the perinatal space and before really doing any proper reading in terms of the literature in motherhood and the mothering experience, I remember being anxious about working with mothers because. And now when I look back at it, I completely understand what that was. It was because I had internalizations about what it meant to be a good mother. Yes. And if a mother was outside of that, that they were potentially a danger to their child. Yes. And I understand that. So now when I look back, I can totally see the anxiousness that I had and the nervousness that I had when I would see mothers who were talking about.Wishing they could just disappear or talking about extreme anger that they were experiencing or other sort of symptoms of depression and things like that, or feeling like they didn't like their children, which all of us go through at different stages. I know now that all of those things are a symptom of a dysregulated nervous system, and they are a symptom of the environment that we are in that causes people to be in such a state of distress, right?

If we had environments and culture, which really properly and adequately supported mothers and their families in the early years in particular, but ongoing, women wouldn't be in that state of distress, right? And I see that so differently now, but I recognize that those sort of internalizations that we have, they exist. And I think that when you don't have. Maybe the lived experience or if you're not really specifically trained in that area It's really easy to let those kind of biases influence the way that you treat women who show up who present with Challenges as they're going through motherhood And in fact, I've had a number of clients who've told me some appalling stories about The ways that they were treated by previous therapists and things like that, which I it's very sad It's very sad.

Amber-lee (Host): I remember I did my undergrad before I had children. I finished it just after I had my first and I was really shocked that out of all of the years of study, there was one paragraph in one textbook that mentioned postnatal depression. Otherwise, there was nothing else specific to the experiences of mothers and parents in this space regarding mental health… a paragraph.

Yara (Guest): Even in my training, I would be surprised that if there was anything more than what you've just described there. And it's appalling considering how much of the population actually are mothers. And it's appalling because we know what the figures are on postpartum depression and anxiety. And in fact, those figures are probably under representations because there's a lot of people who don't present for treatment. Considering how many people are actually affected I think that what that does is it just goes back to the point that I made earlier, which is that care work and mothers are just not valued in our culture, right?

If this was a really big deal, The reality is if this was as much of a problem for fathers as it is for mothers, there would be entire units dedicated to that in undergrad training. So it's just one of those things. And that's, what's so beautiful about the fact that there are all these podcasts that cover things like this now, it's all over social media. There are so many of these accounts where women are sharing what their experiences are of that, and accounts like mine and your own account and all sorts of amazing places that you can get this information out. It is really powerful. So powerful. And thank goodness that we're in a time like that, right?

Amber-lee (Host): I actually read something the other day. I have to probably check my numbers, but it was something like, for every four dollars that's put into like family support, so whether that be child care, whether that be like mental health, like anything regarding family support, the government actually gets nine dollars back. Which I was like, there is not only is it cost effective, but like how much we would save just speaking economically and numbers wise, because that's what governments look at when they're trying to implement policies and systems and things. So it's, we actually, we have the research and we have the evidence and it's just like, how do we get this into mainstream? More women in power.

Yara (Guest): Absolutely. Yeah. And it's that thing of it's invisible to them. Especially because, like, when you consider that many of those men who are in government have families. Yeah. But, they're not, necessarily privy to what goes on to running that. And of course the women who are partnered with them, there's also like this problem. I would imagine that there's a pressure to be outward facing in a particular way as well. Like you're not going to be like talking about all the struggle because you're the prime minister's wife or whatever. I'm not saying that's the case in this case. But I'm just saying like for whoever it is that's in that position. Like preventative is the way. And every time I see initiatives or money from the government going into treating the problem once it's already happened. I'm like, that's great. Of course we need that support there. But it's like, what about if you just invested from the beginning, like right at the beginning of all of these things, and I know you wanted to talk about anger, but even then I'm just like, if you just, if you guys just invested, like there'd be less angry mums, like there would be less angry mums. There would be better regulation for everyone, for families. I just think for me, I'm like, it's like relationships. And the well being of the parents is the most important thing when our children are young because everything else comes easier when those two, when those things are doing well.

So when people are well, that doesn't mean that they don't experience challenge, but they've got the resources to deal with them. Yeah. So when those things are tended to well, Everything else is fine. They can handle their children. They can handle their kids big emotions. They can handle the spanners that mothering can throw which is that you have a child who's neurodivergent and then there's challenges that come with that or whatever. You have the support you need to deal with those different things and then your nervous system is running in a way that is flexible. So it's moving from activation back down into maybe a more comfortable baseline. Like it's doing, it's working healthily in the way that it's meant to. Whereas currently I think for most women, we're actually operating on it in an activated state all the time. And when we have the downtime it's unusual when our nervous system comes back into calm, that's an unusual experience. Or it's like we finally get a weekend away or whatever, but then it's not sustainable. And so it's no wonder that people are experiencing burnout and they're ending up with anxiety or depression or really extreme kind of anger or whatever. Like it's no surprise that those things happen. And that then becomes really difficult to do the work of parenting.

Amber-lee (Host): absolutely. I remember days where there was like, I would sit down and be like, this is the first time I've actually sat down all day, and then it's no wonder I feel so restless in my body, and I can't be sitting.

I have to be like, keep doing. And yeah, I, that makes so much sense to me. And it's funny that we're, We're talking about this because it's like we're talking about like those injustices and those political and economic issues and things surrounding families and support from others I'm, like when I get into these conversations, I feel angry, it's really bringing that all up and chatting to friends about the pandemic and what was going on in that time and one of my girlfriends just the other day was like, I'm still so angry about what happened and that was coming up to four years ago. And so then you're sitting with that and you're going through the motions and you're parenting and you're all those changes with matrescence, like the growth and all those things. But like you're in the hard parts of that growth right now. And so it's just interesting how often anger, for example, comes up, but how very little we're actually talking about it and how stigmatized and taboo this topic really is. And because it's so incredibly shameful, we feel guilty. There's a lot of attached emotions to rage and anger which I really want to get into.

I wanted to ask you first and foremost, though, so we're going to be talking about anger and rage. To me, they are two separate things. And I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and your definitions.

Yara (Guest): For me, I think about rage and I've been in many a rageful state. I think about rage as feeling out of control, like uncontrolled. And I do think that there are instances where rage can feel, it feels more violent in a way. It can feel like that. It doesn't mean it always does, but it can. And my own experiences of when I have been in rage, it's like a whole body. It's I feel like I'm on fire. And I could literally burn the whole world down around me. That's the state that I'm in. But the biggest thing for me is just how difficult it is to control my feelings and the behaviour that comes after. That's what I experience as rage. And that's what I would talk about to other people. And look, I think that I think that they're basically one and the same, but one of them is just a more extreme manifestation of that.

So rage, I think, is what comes when you've had this anger that has been bubbling for a really long time and you haven't been able to express it, you haven't been able to find a way to move it through your body, and you haven't been able to find a resolution to whatever the actual cause of that anger is as well. So that's what I think about it, but I also don't necessarily think that with anger and rage, it's not a problem unless it's causing harm. That's the way that I think about it. You know how I said earlier about the way that it can be alchemised into something really positive. I think that for many of us, even at the moment, I think about what's going on in Palestine and it's like that anger and the rage that many people feel And it's the same, it makes me think about anxiety. Like anxiety is something that's been with us forever. It's only a problem when it's actually becoming so distressing for people. Until then, it's actually a great motivator of behaviour. Yeah. So for me, I'm the important thing is coming to understand what is the message in your anger or your rage? Like what, why are you actually angry? What is it trying to tell you about? What's the injustice that's happening in your life? Where is the, where are the places that as a mother, maybe, or in whatever capacity in that moment of time where you are feeling not heard, where you are not getting your needs met.

Cause that's the core of where it comes down to. I also think that We can have anger or rage about our own experience and we can also have anger or rage about something that we're seeing happen which feels like a wrong when there is, and maybe that's like the outrage, maybe that's what that is, when we're actually observing things that are happening in the world or to other mothers or whatever it may be and we feel deep rage about that and about systemically what's going on there.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. About that loss of control, out of control feeling. I certainly felt those things. And I actually, I was going through like my old journals and books and things. I didn't journal much back then, but I would do random dot points, like just to get it out on something. I wrote swearing, screaming, shaking, driving like a crazy person, leaving in a state. So like my husband would get home and I would just leave this loss of control over my body and my mind, like the tension in my body. It was like I was wired and couldn't stop and restless. And yeah, it was just interesting to go back and read those words that I'd written technically not that long ago, but what feels like so long ago because of where I am now, but talking to so many other I would say that rage is absolutely common, but I would say that the feelings of anger are certainly more common. Like you were saying, how anger is not the problem, it's just, are we having this kind of healthy way of expressing it? And a lot of us aren't actually taught healthy ways to express it. And so it comes out at maybe yelling at your kids or taking it out on your partner or like the behavior from the feeling is what's unjust. And then that's when we feel guilt and shame.And cause we, we don't want to be that person and that's really hard to sit with sometimes.

Yara (Guest): And I actually, and I think that's where rage comes from as well. When we actually have, because I think we're conditioned, especially as women, we're not allowed to be angry. A good mother doesn't have anger. A good mother is joyful and loving and comforting and empathic. There isn't space for anger in the ideal, the patriarchal ideal of what a good mother is. And so there's this kind of almost like an internal gaslighting, I think that happens for many people as well, where they actually undermine themselves about that as well as What is actually happening in our culture? So there is the actual out the external world that is saying that's not appropriate, but there's also, I think that there's a voice within us as well that tells us that we're not allowed to be like that. What does that mean about me as a mother? If I feel angry or if right now I don't like my children or whatever it might be, right? There's this internal dialogue that feeds that as well. And because we don't have. We're not practiced at being compassionate with ourselves and with that part of us that feels the anger and we don't have practiced maybe tools or skills in terms of how to actually let that energy out of our bodies because it's all held in our bodies It builds up and it builds up and it builds up until like me the one that I remember quite often when I was When my son was eating starting to eat solids and he wouldn't eat something that I think of as pasta or something and I just flipped the plate off of his little high chair and just flung it on the wall. And there was just like pasta sauce everywhere. And he was just like looking at me really shocked. And then of course you see it all happening in slow motion, but you can't really stop it. And then you're just like, what the hell am I doing?

And that's, and it gets to that point because rather than, having safe places where you can say, Oh my God, and get it all out or engage in practices semantically that allow you to move through it. And really, and having places where you can have that the anger or the upsets that you have be validated and you hold it all in your body. Eventually it's got to come out somewhere. It absolutely has to come out somewhere. And so I think that the most powerful thing that women can do is to start to really unpick their beliefs around anger and to start to take up space in terms of I'm allowed to be angry and when I'm angry about things, what is going to, what is an effective or an adaptive way of me communicating that I'm feeling frustrated?

I heard my son the other day, we were at a friend's place and he was in the pool and he was trying to set this kind of slide up with these mats in the pool and all the other kids, there was three other kids and they all just kept jumping on it and I could tell he was getting more and more agitated with how he was speaking and I heard him say at one point, guys, I'm getting really And he started to talk about what he was feeling in his body. And I just started giggling because that's me. That's me. When the kids start to really get on my nerves, I'm like, I'm feeling very frustrated now. I don't feel like what I'm saying is being heard. And I start to name all the things that I feel in my body. And it was just really cool because I was like, Oh, wow he's been hearing that and he's picked up on that. And of course, then the adults came in and tried to help. We heard that and we were like, okay, it's a signal. Yeah. He needs help. So we went in and helped solve the issue and everything was fine. But I think, and I think that in the real world, like for us as adults, when we say that to someone that we're in relationship with or our children or our partners or whatever is hearing that hopefully they can come in and say, okay, I'm hearing you. How do we work this out? Yeah. But I just want, I just really want mums to know that if they're feeling angry, they have literally, a never ending list of reasons to be angry. Absolutely. They really do. The task of mothering in itself is really intense and to be doing it in this particular age that we're in, which is so under supported, most of us are the sort of primary and we're doing it alone and we're doing it in isolation and we're doing it in our own little silos. It's lonely work. It can be really lonely work and there's only one nervous system to regulate everything and everyone, right? It actually is a lot. It really is a lot. And I also, one of the things that I sometimes think about with my kids is before I had kids, if someone was bothering me, I would just leave that situation, right?

Like even in workplaces, like workplaces, I'd try and resolve it. But if I couldn't get it resolved, I'd be like, you know what? This is just not the energy that I want to be in. You can't do that with your children. You can't just be like, I'm out. You can't do that. And so there has to be a bank of kind of strategies that you can use to deal with the build up of energy and emotion that you have in your body and also there has to be like a system for addressing the concerns that you have that lead to you feeling frustrated and angry. There's got to be a way of dealing with that. Yeah.

Amber-lee (Host): you just made me think of a few different things, but I even find that now, just what you were saying about how we have so many reasons to be angry and I'm like, that feels so validating for me. Like these are real hard things and mothering in the modern world is difficult because oftentimes we are doing it alone and we're not getting breaks that we need. We don't have the resources to fall back on. But yeah, just hearing that is so validating, but I posted a question box on my Instagram saying that we were going to have a chat today and ask people to share with me some common triggers or situations that lead to mom rage for them. I just wanted to read a few out to you. So the main points are all very similar, which I found really interesting. I've mentioned the pandemic, but it was some of children's behaviors, like whining, complaining, fighting, crying, someone gets hurt, constantly having to repeat myself, meal refusal, constant noise, screaming, everyone talking at me at once, being needed 24 7.

Yara (Guest): I don't know if it was like my love language or something. And it was just this reel of the mum, like sitting down to drink a coffee or cooking dinner or whatever. And in every scene, the little boy was like legging it, trying to get to the mum. And the dad was just swooping in, grabbing the kid. And so she was just left undisturbed each time. And I was like, Oh my God, what a dream MVP. Honestly, I was like, if you are not doing this for the mothers in your life, You need to start doing it. Whoever is sharing spaces with them at home. Like it is honestly the smallest thing and it means so much though. It really does. It does. Yeah. And I think that what you're talking about there, what I'm hearing is a lot of sensory overload in terms of the sound and stuff. And I would say that obviously there are things that trigger us in our parenting that relate to our own experiences of being children and what we were allowed to or not allowed to do and things like that, but I also think there are just certain behaviours that like. If you have to listen to whining all day long from a child and sometimes they go through these stages, anyone would be completely frazzled by the end of that. So it's not like you are inadequate as a mother because that's hard. It actually just is hard. One of the big ones for me at the moment is the sibling fighting. It's out of control at the moment. And I think it's just an age thing, but it's just. It's just absolutely killing me. And so I'm having to think of like strategies and things to actually give them more space apart from each other so that they're doing less of the arguing and fighting, as well as also like restorative practices between the two of them as well. All of those things that you just talked about are absolutely things that, that I experienced as well.

Amber-lee (Host):. Just even talking with mothers, like trying to do things for themselves. I've got my two babies in my car. I'm driving 45 minutes away to a doctor that I, Trust and want to see, and I get stuck in this awful traffic. My son falls asleep, which means I'm not getting a break at home because he's asleep in the car now. So I'm just, I'm, it's going through my mind or my other baby's screaming because it's now time to feed. Cause I was like, I'll get there early. I'll feed in the car. I'll go in. Like it just, that total loss of control and just trying to get to the doctor's appointment for myself. I ended up turning around and just. Absolutely losing my mind and just going home because I was like, this isn't even worth it anymore. And that was just me trying to go to a doctor.

Yara (Guest): I guess one of the things about being a mother is that these things are going to happen, but it shouldn't be that hard. Like I actually, we were at the dentist for my son the other day and I was talking to them about my own. And I was like, and she said to me, when was the last time you went to the dentist? And I was like, I think it was before he was born. He's eight, like a proper appointment. I was just like, Oh my God. I went downstairs and booked at the adult clinic downstairs. It's it. Yeah. It shouldn't be that hard. And those are really reasonable things to be frustrated about. A hundred percent. Yeah. I also want to bring up something that I don't know whether you've considered and spoken about in regards to anger, but it's something that I've added actually.

So to that workshop that you mentioned, I've added this component to the workshop, because I've found that it was becoming more and more of a thing that we needed to look into with clients. And even for myself, I've started to consider it and that is hormones. and the influence of hormones, and in particular for women who are maybe older and maybe going through perimenopause. So I want to raise that because I think that we don't consider the cycle of women enough. And I also want to say that when I'm talking about this, I really want to make sure that I don't disempower women because saying that you are more sensitive to certain things that frustrate you because of your hormones does not mean that you're making them up or that you're crazy or that any other person in that state would be taking it differently. I actually think of it as a bit of a superpower. It means that you've got spider senses for things that need that aren't okay. Of course, again, it's really important to have. for how we effectively communicate our frustration and how we deal with frustration, tension, anger that may be building in our body. But I do think it's really important for people to consider perimenopause. One of the things that we do know is that women are having children later on in life. And what that does mean is that often there are women who are raising young children while they are in perimenopause. And they may not even know that they're in perimenopause.

And one of the biggest symptoms in perimenopause is anger and rage. So it's really important if you are an older mother so basically from your Mid to late thirties, you can be in perimenopause for ten years before you actually hit menopause. And there's lots that you can do about that in terms of hormones.I just think that if there's anyone who's listening right now, and maybe they're in that sort of age category, and they've just noticed that, Things seem to be feeling really spicy for them lately and that it's really unusual is go ahead and speak to your doctor about the possibility that perimenopause may be playing a role.So when I talk about this, cause I see a therapist myself as well. And I've talked about this with my therapist and I'm like, I don't see it as I'm out of control or anything like that because I have hormones influencing how I feel. I actually see it as I have a heightened sensitivity. To the bullshit.

That's actually how I see it because the issues are actually still there. I just don't have a lot of tolerance for them anymore. And I was talking to my husband about this and I was like a long time ago when there was potentially cultures and societies that were more matriarchal, when you entered into this journey. There was a specific role for like you think about the wise women and the women that you go to and I'm not and you don't have to be thinking about much older women like this is just women who've just experienced life who may be later on in that stage and I said and I remember saying to him I feel like They were the bullshit detectors. They were the ones that were like, no, this is the way it needs to be. And they were like the ones that held their culture, their community, their society accountable. And so the thing is that we don't live in that kind of a, an era anymore. So when, instead of seeing the gift that comes with some of these changes that we are experiencing, they're often vilified because we live in an era where women in general are undervalued and certainly aging women really undervalued, right? And seen as being less useful in, in culture in our society as well. So I really, again, this is all about women and mothers in particular, really thinking about how do I reclaim power in every part of my journey and my existence. So I do want to mention that. So that is a new sort of module that I've added to the anger workshop that I have available because I just started to see that it was really Just more and more relevant for the women that I was working with.

But again, the big thing I want to say is that it doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason for that anger. It just might feel a bit more volatile for some women as they're moving through that stage of life.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. I love that though. Like I've literally said those words to my husband. I feel justified in my anger. It's my behaviour maybe doesn't match that necessarily. I had, I still have lots of learning to do around that, but it's like the anger itself, that feeling itself, like absolutely feels justified.

Yara (Guest): Yeah, totally. And that actually reminds me of something I say to my kids all the time, which is all of your feelings are valid and valuable and important and worthwhile of expressing but that doesn't mean that every behaviour that comes from that is okay. That's especially it comes up a lot with the sibling fights around, like when the hitting and all of that sort of stuff, I'm like, it's totally fine that you felt really upset and even really angry about this and this, but it's not okay that you hit your sister or you hit your brother. And that's where the strategies and all of the rest of it that I'm talking about can be really useful. In the workshop that I do, there's a lot of somatic kind of practices. There's lots of breath work focus there to help people with dealing with the feelings that are in their body and dealing with the energy that builds up in the body. And with the idea that if we can alleviate some of that pressure in our system, in our nervous system, and maybe get back to a place of more balance. Then when we get up in the morning for our day of parenting, we're not starting at an activated level straight away. We're starting from a more balanced place and there's greater.

So when we talk about the nervous system, we don't talk about just being calm all the time. That's not ideal. It's not actually realistic. It's just setting you up for failure. We're talking about increasing flexibility in the nervous system. And what that means is that you're not, If you experience a challenge in your day or something that frustrates you, that you might get into an activated state, but you can quickly bring yourself back down. So we're looking for the flexibility in the nervous system. That's what tells us it's working in a way that is healthy.

Amber-lee (Host): I wanted to talk to you about these underlying causes. So oftentimes I've heard anger in particular be described as a protective emotion. So it's protecting something beneath it. So oftentimes it comes up with another emotion or feeling.

Yara (Guest): Yeah.

Amber-lee (Host): Then also when I think of hormones, just, to personalize this a little bit. So I would wake up in the morning and literally say to my husband, this is several years ago, I would literally say to my husband, I'm sitting at 50 and at 7am, like I'm not sitting at zero, but I don't know how to get to zero. And this took at least a good year for me to actually even be able to articulate that. So a lot of it, I wasn't aware of in, in the early stages of that experience, but later on, I also discovered that when I was having like these really explosive rage episodes, it was linked to my cycle. And I eventually was by a psychiatrist diagnosed with premenstrual dysphoric disorder, PMDD, which made sense to me. But again, PMDD is linked to.. comorbidity, right? Like it's often not on its own. There is usually I find just anecdotally, that it's often linked to other things. And so in my case, it was PTSD, which I was diagnosed with a year later. So it's like body nervous system is sitting in this traumatized fight state. I cannot get to zero. My hormones are off the charts. I ended up having some hormonal support as well. So it was like, okay, I'm starting to like piece the puzzle together of what the heck has been going on with my body. And there was a lot of context prior to that with birth trauma and pregnancy trauma and other things. So it's okay. We're getting some answers, but that took years. And that if people are listening to this, that, and they're in that stage right now, that can feel really heavy. There is no real quick fix, but there are still things that we can do.

So do you want to talk to these underlying causes?

Yara (Guest): Yeah. And I'm so glad that you brought that up in terms of things. So everyone is coming into. mothering with different histories, right? So we can, there's people that have come into mothering maybe with really great family history and really not many significant kind of traumas. Cause I think people experience all sorts of traumas, but some of them are more significant maybe than others. Also the way we respond to trauma differs across different people. So the same two people could experience this. A specific trauma and have very different responses to that. And then of course, I'm so glad you brought in pregnancy and birth as well. So if we've experienced traumas throughout those periods in particular, it already puts us at risk of postpartum depression, of increased rage or anger and things like that after. And a lot of it's because, Not only may you be frustrated about things that have happened during those periods, but you're often holding that you've had things happen to your body as well.

If you are someone who's listening and you are finding that you've, you're struggling to manage your anger and rage, first of all, I would always say, make sure you go and get help. So even though all of these experiences are normal, if It feels like it's out of control for you or that you can't seem to get a handle of it or you just can't seem to pull yourself back in once you've tipped over the edge, go and get help because it's always easier to wind your system back once it isn't had, once it hasn't had so much practice at doing these same things over and over again. So get help as soon as you can. And there is no shame in asking for help to deal with these things. Absolutely none. But yeah, going back to things like birth trauma and stuff like that, absolutely set us up for that. I'm glad you brought up PMDD as well, because I had considered that for myself. And what we know is that it's much more common in women who've had babies as well to have PMS. And I actually hear that a lot with my clients as well for people who may not know, it's basically, so some people who experienced PMS, it's like a more intense version of that. So it's some women during the phase right before they have their bleed can feel like they're just losing their minds and if very out of control. They can end up really depressed during that period so depend everyone's obviously going to experience it differently But it can be really significant for some people So that's wonderful that you've got support around that and the hormone sort of stuff that you're talking about is also stuff that can be Used for people who may be entering perimenopause or who suspect that they are Hormone replacement therapy is I'm not a doctor so I would definitely recommend going and speaking to a medical professional around that.

But yeah, all of these things that you're talking about are so valid in terms of considering some of the influences to why we experience anger the way that we do. And What it means for me, the advice that I give is A, go and get the support you need. Talk about it with your GP. If you don't get answers that you like from a GP, if you feel undermined, if you feel like they're not taking you seriously, anything like that is go and get a second opinion, get a third opinion if you need to. I'm a huge advocate of finding the right practitioner for you, whether that's a doctor, someone in a holistic space, a therapist, I've been through many therapists you have to find someone that works for you. They're not all built equally. So find someone that you feel really listens to you and gives you time to express yourself who has empathy, all of the rest of it, who puts in the work. It's important and go into that space and find out whether there's anything that you can do around diet around. So often when I'm talking about anger, and one of the things that I talk about in the course is I talk about a hierarchy of needs and the bottom level of that in that pyramid is basic needs.

So things like sleep, nutrition. And movement's obviously important for making sure our body is functioning well, but it's also really important because it allows us to discharge energy and stress and tension that we may have built up in the body. So that would be the next thing that I'm talking about. But within that, I would consider that any of this medical stuff fits into that basic needs space as well. So looking at, is there medical stuff that you need to look at this particular moment, looking at, Are you getting sleep? Which of course, if you've got newborns is hard, but that isn't the only obstacle because if you have other adults living in your house, then there might be the need to express your needs effectively. And to have a conversation about how am I going to get the need for sleep met? Or the need for rest met. That doesn't mean your sleep is going to look the same as it did before you had children, but it might mean that you need a little bit more than what you're getting right now. So I think that's really important.

One of the things that I'll say around the sleep thing, and this is, I think that there's this understanding of as a mother, you're going to get less sleep as a parent in this particular time of your life, you're going to get less sleep. But if you are a person who is getting less sleep than you need, and it means that you are. It's so dysregulated that you're ending up in rage states or that you're ending up depressed with symptoms of depression, with symptoms of anxiety. Like it's not, it's okay for you to ask for and receive more support in order to get the sleep you need so that you can function as a person. It's not okay to. For people around you who could be supporting you to say That's just what it is at this particular time in life because it's not just that it's impacting your experience of mothering But it could be potentially impacting your children as well. So it's not good enough. It makes me think about I have a very good friend who has a history of psychotic episodes and when he doesn't get the exact amount of sleep that he gets, even though he's taking medication, it completely knocks him off kilter and he can go into these psychotic states again. He has got small children. And they have an agreement about how much sleep he gets and how he gets it to ensure that he does not end up in that state. There is no difference in that for mothers who end up so dysregulated that they are depressed, suicidal even or in a really extreme kind of rage space. There's no difference. Just because you're a mother, doesn't mean that you just have to tolerate that. Yeah. So the sleep thing is a really big thing and movement can look like anything. It can look like making sure you stretch every day. It can look like yoga. It can look like walking. It can look like weight training, whatever it is that you can fit in this phase of life and in chunks of time that you can fit in. So really important. And then in terms of like things that you might want to consider bringing into your practice is breath work is just absolutely incredible for regulating the nervous system. And it's because By changing how we breathe, we have direct access to our nervous system.

So we can change the way our nervous system is functioning simply by changing the way that we breathe. We can up regulate our body through our breath. We can down regulate our body through our breath. It is just so powerful. So I think it's a beautiful tool to use in the moment when you're feeling like there's anger that's building or frustration that's building.But it's also really good practice just as we exercise to keep our bodies healthy. It's a really good practice to keep our nervous systems healthy going forward. So whether that's maybe you do 10 to 15 minutes of breath work every night or every morning, or whenever it is that the time works for you as a way of resetting and rewiring your nervous system for flexibility, I think that's so beautiful.

And then of course there's a bunch of kind of somatic practices that people can try and I go into those in the course, but the breath is a really easy one. I actually. I found this only six months ago. There's an incredible app called insight timer, and you can join up for free. And what I love about that is you can just go in and you can look up breath work practices and just find the voice that you like and find the style that you like. And then that just becomes your thing that you do. So it is such a fantastic one. I have watched live sound healing. I have done live yoga sessions on there. I have even done IFS based practices. There's Richard Schwartz actually has a number of practices on there himself. He's the creator of IFS, which is a therapeutic style that I use with my clients. So it's essentially like parts work in a parts work. And I also really love one of the big ones that I love. And I really share and guide my client through is actually where we interview. The part of us that feels angry. And so what that looks like, you can find guided sessions on the internet, YouTube. There are some in insight timer as well. And essentially what it is tuning into where it is in your body that you feel the anger, seeing if there's any kind of image that shows up and starting to treat that sensation in your body and the feeling of the anger as an actual part within you and actually getting, and this is where you talked about it being a protector. And some people talk about it, I think in the workshop, I talk about it as a secondary emotion. So there's often something else that's beneath that anger. And every time I have done a practice like that, I always end up in a complete mess of tears. Because a lot of the time what it is that I haven't had a need met.

That's where the anger comes from. It's like there's a need, whether it's to be heard, whether it's for rest, with whatever, to be acknowledged. It's something like that's often underneath and there's a lot of grief there. But in the day to day of our lives, it's much more powerful or empowering. It doesn't mean we're consciously aware of this, but it's much more empowering to show up in an angry state than it is to cry and to be full of our grief. And so I feel like that's a really important practice. For ongoing in our lives, right? So for me now when I start to feel angry, I often check in very quickly in the moment with that part of me Internally, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. I'm feeling like this because I haven't had time to myself I don't feel like people are caring for me, I don't feel nurtured or whatever it might be, right? So it's such an important practice to be able to do that. And even if we, even if part of the picture for us is hormonal, that doesn't take away all of these things that I've just mentioned. Because there's still a reason why you are feeling angry. It's just that you may be feeling it on a more intense level because of your hormones.

Amber-lee (Host): I have put so many of those into practice and I particularly love breath work in a lot of ways. I say that it saved me because it was something effective immediately, but also something I could do anywhere, anytime. So I'm driving in the car, I'm about to go to sleep. I'm feeling like I'm Ragey in the kitchen while my kids are talking to me. It's just breathe, take a breath before you respond. Like you, and the more and more, I literally have a necklace that says breathe because it's, I need that daily reminder. I just need to take a breath. And half the time it does, it diffuses so much of that energy. But, and again, like you were saying, If you are listening to this and you feel like you do have these really big explosive symptoms and you do feel like there's something else going on here to go and explore that with a healthcare professional that you trust. I 100 percent agree with that. And that definitely saved me in a lot of ways as well. I must say, I would say also, I did want to bring this up. So a lot of the time I would say in the last couple of years, at least, so not when I was looking, but the last couple of years, Rage and anger have also been deemed a symptom of a perinatal mood or anxiety disorder. But then when you go and do something like the postnatal Edinburgh scale, which they get a lot of new mums to do, anger or rage isn't really a symptom that they talk about in there or a question that you would answer, would you deem this an alarming symptom of a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder?

We've talked about perimenopause and hormones and cycles and PMDD and things, but what about specifically in that context?

Yara (Guest): I think it's something that can go along with it, but it doesn't mean So if someone comes to me and they're experiencing rage and anger, postnatal depression isn't the first thing that's on my mind. I would consider that following other kinds of symptoms that go along with that. My thing with labels like that anyway is, I had a post about this a little while ago that really blew up because my thoughts on the term postnatal depression is when you actually look at all the symptoms, they're the symptoms of Mothers who are unsupported in our culture. It's not, I don't, I'm not suggesting that there isn't an impact. There absolutely is an impact in terms of the brain chemistry and what's happening, but I don't know which one came first and no one can know that, right? Like you can't say that somebody. Is experiencing that because they have maybe less serotonin or being held in their brain or whatever it is. You can't say that. No one can know that. What I can say is that my own experience and what I witness in other people is that the dire lack of support from others means that they end up carrying a huge amount of load that is not humanly possible to carry. And anyone in that situation would end up angry, but also experiencing the kinds of symptoms that come with postnatal depression and postnatal anxiety. So for me, postnatal depression and postnatal anxiety are a symptom of patriarchal motherhood, which is where women are told that They are only allowed to experience mother, mothering and motherhood in one way, which is that it's a joy all the time that they ought to be able to do it by themselves. And if they don't, it's because they're inadequate as mothers, which means that then women don't reach out for help because they have had so many mothers who don't reach out for help, who don't build strong friendships and stuff because they're worried about being perceived as not good enough because they can't handle, understandably, Certain parts of mothering without support. And I think to me, and I have seen that, I know that the anger piece, it's interesting that it's not in there actually. But I would say again, that it probably says something about culture that it's not in there. Like why is anger not in there? Why is it not asked about? Oh, cause mothers don't feel angry. So that's not something we need to ask about. Like it's actually, it boggles the mind. When you start to look deeply into even these spaces that are supposed to be supporting mothers that even in those places, these. really crappy patriarchal Ideologies around motherhood are embedded within them. Yeah, so yeah, so for me, I wouldn't necessarily be thinking this person is Experiencing depression or anxiety, but it would be more like over the time that I'm knowing them initially It would be a mixture of all of the things that they're reporting.

I think one of the things that I notice about doing therapy with mothers is that once you give them an opportunity to say the things that they've been holding and afraid to say to other people, a lot of the symptoms disappear. It doesn't mean that their life becomes easier. They still have the same struggles, but they know they have somewhere to get them out and they know they're normal and they know that they're not pathological and they know that they're not a bad mother for experiencing what they're experiencing. It's really quite powerful. The impact of normalizing someone's experience and that doesn't. And so when I normalize it, when I talk about that, these feelings of anger and stuff is pretty normal. And I would say more mothers than not actually are experiencing them. I'm not saying that so you don't need to get support. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying these are normal because of the shitty kind of situation that we're all in. So go and get as much support as you can. That's what I'm saying, because I remember I say that, especially because I remember getting in my DMs once. A mother who had something about, it was quite a while ago, but it was something about that she hadn't reached out for support for a really long time because everyone told her, Oh, that's normal. That's normal. What you're experiencing as a mother. That's normal. And so she was like, Oh, okay. So this is just what it is.

And so I really want to be clear that because we are normalizing these experiences doesn't mean that it's normal. So you have to just deal with it. It's normal to experience it, or like many other women, I'd say, it's not normal. Many women are experiencing these things because we aren't supported effectively for this very intense, life changing phase of our lives. But that doesn't mean that you have to live like that. Go and get as much support as you need.

Amber-lee (Host): Yeah. I feel like there are so many layers to what you were saying

Yara (Guest): I think that the important thing is actually finding out from mothers, what they need and actually giving them what they need and knowing that's different for each person. I think generally speaking, mothers, Around the world could do with more support to ensure that they're getting sleep and rest opportunities and time for themselves. But how that looks is different. So I have heard even that kind of 40 days that in some cultures that they have where they're not to leave the house and all that sort of stuff that some women feel deeply restricted by that. And that causes a lot of tension for them and really dysregulates them. For someone who's feeling like that's potentially not the right solution for them. And so it's very much about. what feels right for each person and knowing that there's somewhere to go to get the support that they're needing.

Amber-lee (Host): the theme that I often see, I call it like the cloak of invisibility. So it's like you become a mother and all of a sudden, like you’re important for the benefit of the child, not just because you're important. So it's, but I do see that as a common theme and pattern.

Yara (Guest): That's absolutely, yeah, absolutely. One of the things that's common across, I think, all cultures in the world that the children are valued above the mothers. Yes.

Amber-lee (Host): I wanted to talk briefly about some barriers that may prevent mothers from seeking help and maybe some signs of when they should seek help because sometimes it can be hard to know what’s normal.

Yara (Guest): Yeah, I think that the ideology that many of us have internalized to different extents around that we should be able to do it all absolutely gets in the way. And that if we ask for help, that it means failure on our behalf. And I think that the point around culture is important because different cultures may have that to different degrees. And then also in terms of psychological support, I think different cultures may have different beliefs about that and about the validity around that kind of support as well. I'm a big believer of you don't need to be at the point where you're depressed and thinking about suicide or needing to present to a hospital.

And I'm a big believer of if you are, if you're just not having a great time, just go and get help. Like you don't need to earn it. You don't need to prove that you've tried everything and you've gritted your teeth for as long as you can. And you just can't handle it and your whole life's falling apart. There's no badge for that. There is no badge for that. If you. If this is harder than you thought it was going to be, if you wake up dreading having to get through the day with your kids, if you feel out of control with your anger, or you're just experiencing it more than you would like to, if you would like to know how to better manage your anger, even if it's not like a big dysregulated mess yet, just go and get help.

In terms of the barriers and especially around costs, and this is a really big one in Australia at the moment, I think, because it is expensive to see a psychologist, I'm not going to deny that. And also because the government has reduced the number of sessions that are now rebatable through Medicare, which is pretty sad. It's bizarre to me that. Mental health care isn't just part of the health care system in general. It's just weird. But I think that also can be traced back to patriarchal ideologies and around like that everyone just should be able to handle it. And if you can't, there's something wrong with you.Yeah. That's a whole nother big conversation.

Amber-lee (Host): On that though, you only have to scroll on social media for five minutes and read some comments to know. Particularly talking about mothers of you chose to have children. So suck it up. And I like the I have to put my phone down when I read those comments cause I'm just like, Oh, I can't even handle that. But this is the conversation.

Yara (Guest): Yeah. And I actually, whenever I see that, I'm like, if you actually knew what was coming from having children, you probably wouldn't choose to have kids. And I don't mean that because kids are awful and all the rest of it. That's not what I mean. Your kids are beautiful. And even when the times are hard. We all love our children, but if you knew how hard it was going to be and all the upheaval and the changes in your life and the impact it would have on your body and all the rest of it, like there's not many other things like that we go through in life where people like willingly sign up for that. What I'm saying is when people say those things, I think that they're people who probably aren't parents and they have no idea. And it always brings to mind the meme that I shared quite a while ago about it's like a picture of a bunch of clowns or something sitting hanging out together and it's like me and my friend, my mum friends before we had, now thinking we were going to be these regulated parents and blah, blah, blah, blah. No. Everyone is caught off guard . And that's because we don't have honest depictions of what it actually looks like to be a mother. Or to be a parent in general, like a father even. What does it mean to, to be that, the mother that shows up and the father that shows up and what does that cost you in your life and all the rest of it? There is a cost. And not just a cost in terms of things that we talk about as mothers, but even financial and social status, all of that sort of stuff. But yeah, I just think it's just so important that if you are just having a hard time, just reach out for help.

And on that note, so what help can look like. So help doesn't need to be that you're going to see a psychologist. Help can look like joining a mother's group. That could be the one that's run by the child health nurse. It could be looking for other groups that are organized by other people. There was a really fantastic one that was running in my local area run by a midwife and it was just so bloody great. It was really wonderful. There are others run by other mothers in my area or in this, the Perth region. So the good thing about that is that you get to, there's a bit of a selection. There's a bit of a choice in terms of. Finding your people and going to a group that maybe feels really aligned for you. The other one is like group programs that are actually run by psychologists is another really cost effective way So whether that's I have a coaching group It might not be that one. It might be other kinds of groups. It might be a mindfulness group. It might be whatever the hell it is. There's so many of them out there. I think women should look outside of just psychologists as well. So you can find counselors, you can find really good coaches. Whenever, I speak about coaching. I always tell people to ask questions about their training and ask questions around whether or not they're trauma informed. And if they are trauma informed, how are they trauma informed? Like from where have they been learning that? And the reason I say that I know lots of really amazing coaches, but I've also heard terrible stories and it's an unregulated space. So it just means that you have to do the work to make sure that you're finding someone who's got appropriate training for what it is that you're seeking support for. Now, if you are maybe engaging in, you've got the mother's group and maybe you've got friends that you talk to and you're really struggling still, then that's probably the place where you start thinking about how can I get some more specialized support? There are also places like Panda, which you can Google online. I think that they have free counseling available for mothers. There's also the Gidget Foundation. I'm trying to think about the other one. The Center for Perinatal Excellence. I think they don't run free things, but there's a lot of listings for therapists on there. So there are options like that. We have the Raphael Center here in Perth as well that's run by St. John of God and that's a free counseling service for mothers and fathers as well. And there are actually a lot of free counseling services around. As I mentioned earlier, you may have to try a few different ones to get the right fit, but they're out there if you ask.

The first step is people feeling courageous enough to get vulnerable to ask in the first place.

Amber-lee (Host): I feel if you can ask for help, you're halfway there. Totally. Yeah. So I was really curious to ask you regarding anger and rage. If you've touched on like cultural and societal expectations and how that contributes, but are there any particular cultural context where mum rage is more prevalent or less acknowledged? The reason I thought about that was because I think of the birth trauma space, for example, women of colour are more at risk of birth trauma because we as society. With those biases, they're less likely to be listened to. They're less likely to be heard when they come with a symptom or a problem. And you could spread that across the board, just being a female in general and how we are less likely to be listened to. But there are again, layers to that, right?

Yara (Guest): Yeah. Yeah. So certainly like in the birthing space, when we, one of the things that I talk about in the group coaching program that I run is, The kind of cultural expectations of women. And one of them is this kind of the good girl archetype. And I do, we always end up talking about how that feeds into the birthing experience for women and in terms of their pregnancy care as well. And about when you have concerns or when you're not happy with something throughout that process, that. People often swallow that because they don't want to be speaking up against someone who's maybe a professional. They want to be a compliant, good patient, right? And how I feel like for women in particular, that's something that is much stronger for them. I think that, Where I'm thinking about along those lines that you're talking about, maybe around race is that there's a trope around women of colour, which is that when you're the angry sort of black woman kind of thing. So that's more what I was thinking about in terms of feeling. Frustrated and wanting to voice that frustration or wanting to voice that anger, that it can be perceived like that. And so that could be more of a barrier for people and women of colour in particular, of actually expressing their anger, because we're really aware of what the stereotypes are.

And it's definitely something that I've experienced and something that I'm, my dad used to say to me, actually, not necessarily in the space of anger, but just generally for me being in this world was he used to say to me, you need to work. Double as hard as other people because you're a woman and you're black. So it's never lost on me. That's, that can be the kind of filter that people perceive me through. I think I'm at a point in my life and I'm a certain type of person in terms of my personality where I actually don't give a shit. I don't attend to it very much. I also have the privilege of running my own business. So I get to make the decisions in my business and I get to be in charge and direct. That's very different to if I worked for somebody else. And it is something that I have experienced in other workplaces where I have just felt, and that's part of why I started my own business because I wanted to be me in my business. And I didn't want to have to conceal who I was. And I didn't want to conceal who I was. The parts of me that were informed by my culture and my history and my background., and there were situations and settings, especially like working for the government in the health sector, where that felt like it was a disadvantage for me. So absolutely had to start my own business basically to not have to worry about that. Yeah. And it really, it feeds into anger in some ways, because it was things that I was angry about back then. Even things like the, I could be wearing something similar to other professionals in the space, but it looks different on my body. Cause I have a different body and I could be pulled up on that, but everybody else. Isn't things like that are really frustrating. And I think certainly for women of color going through mothering, and I have actually spoken about this with a friend. We did a post about this actually for women of color, when they are experiencing Symptoms that may be postpartum depression or just struggling in general as a mother.

It can be much harder for them to ask for help because there's a bunch of other stereotypes that come with, that come to them because they are black too. Like maybe they're less competent that this thing around the angry black woman. That's because that's who you are rather than that you actually have reasons to be justified. And of course we do because not only are we dealing with all the things that. mothers deal with, but we're also dealing with racial oppression that we've probably grown up with and still live amongst as well. So yeah, that's absolutely. And I would say, especially here in Australia, we're talking, I'm thinking about our indigenous population and how that impacts them. And also that they have got so many levels of oppression. Other stuff to deal with when it comes to the anger that they feel in terms of the history of this country and in terms of seeking support. So fear of institutions and fear of professionals and medical practitioners and things like that fear about actually talking about anger. And having their children taken away from them. And that's hard and that's why it's so important to have places that feel culturally safe for whether it's indigenous people or people of color from other backgrounds and things like that. It is super important. And that's also why I try and show up in my fullness. On social media in particular, because I want other women who may look like me or have skin types similar to me, or maybe just relate to me because of my background, I want them to see that it is safe to actually take up space and to own what your experience of mothering is, irrespective of what color you are, of what your racial background is and things like that.

But yeah, I'm glad you brought that up actually, because yes it's a big one.

Amber-lee (Host): it is a big one. Cause I also read a stat. An Indigenous parent is 20 times more likely to have removal of their child in comparison to a white Australian and they are frightening statistics and it is so frightening. So yeah, I just, I really wanted your perspective and I think you've really spoken to that and I love that and I do love that you show up because You are so relatable to so many different people and myself included. And I've certainly related to a lot of the things that you've shared. So that's why I love you, Yara. And I love that you've come on this podcast and chat with me about this today. And I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. Did you want to share a little bit about the, why am I so angry course and. What it's designed for and what people can expect?

Yara (Guest): So when I created that it was actually a live offering and it was It actually ran for way longer than I had planned But that was just the nature of it's about four and a half hours of video content, but it is It could have been so much more, right? Like I really had to pull back. And there's so much more that I would like to add. And in the future, I'd actually like to do, and I'm working on it at the moment, a totally different workshop series, which is around parts, work and triggers, obviously supporting around anger as well. But why am I so angry is basically teaching mothers about where anger is coming from, so the different places in our lives that can lead to frustration and anger, but also looking from a brain perspective in terms of what's actually happening in our brains when we become angry and really tying into that then the somatic practices like breath and other ones that I share, why they actually work.

So how are they actually moderating or modifying rather the functioning of different parts of the brain. And I think that's really important so that people understand why breath work actually happens. What is it actually doing in the brain? Like why does it allow us to get back into control? So there's a real heavy focus from that perspective, but I probably I go over things like family of origin and our own experiences within that. And then there's a component in there, which is obviously breath practices. So there's recordings for that, that you can listen to each time you do it. And then I've also got a guided sequence that you can work through for rage release and anger release. And then there are other, there's like a library of videos that are just quick somatic practices that you can use in the moment to move through some anger that you may be feeling as well. I'm trying to think what else is in there. There's just so much in there.

Amber-lee (Host): And it's affordable. It can be one of the supports we're talking about community and looking for resources and things. This is one of the resources. And I certainly use resources like this when I was in the thick of it all and they are so helpful. So I will put the link to that course in the show notes so people have access to it as well. But thank you so much, Yara. I really appreciate this. All of you just have a wealth of wisdom and I'm just so grateful for your time.

Yara (Guest): Thank you. Thank you. Oh, it's been so great chatting and I could chat about this all day long. So yeah, thank you so much.

View Details

In the final episode of the mental health mini-series, join host Amber-lee as she explores the transformative power of self-compassion. I delve into the concept of self-compassion with insights from leading researcher Dr. Kristen Neff and discover the key elements of self-kindness, shared humanity, and mindfulness as tools to nurture understanding and care towards oneself. Through relatable scenarios of fictional mothers Kate and Nora, listeners witness the impact of self-compassion on navigating the challenges of motherhood and emotional health. Practical strategies and insights are offered and backed by neuroscience to cultivate self-compassion and reshape inner dialogues. Tune in to uncover the importance of challenging societal stigmas and beliefs to embrace self-compassion as a form of self-love and empowerment, understand why self-compassion precedes gratitude and how practicing kindness with determination leads to personal growth. Self-compassion fosters resilience, enhances motivation, and promotes emotional wellbeing - compassion is not a weakness, in fact it is so powerful it can quite literally transform your brain for the better!

Thank you for tuning into the mental health mini-series! Don't forget to leave a review on whatever podcast platform you are listening on. I appreciate you for being here!

Resources:

Dr Kristen Neff website: https://self-compassion.org/

Kristen Neff self-compassion test: https://self-compassion.org/self-compassion-test/

To find out more about the perfect mother myth mentioned in this episode see: https://drsophiebrock.com/

Grab your free self compassion based motherhood affirmations here: https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you.

TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to the last episode of the mental health mini series, episode six, make self compassion your superpower. There is actual power in self compassion. And if you were anything like me a couple of years ago, and you really lacked self compassion, I hope that this episode just plants the seed of self compassion today I first want to give you a good understanding of what self compassion is. So it's a concept that's gained a lot of attention, but thanks to psychologists like Dr. Kristen Neff, who is now the leading researcher in self compassion. She says it involves treating ourselves with the same kindness, concern, and support we'd offer a good friend when they're struggling. There are three key parts to this. Self kindness. Shared humanity and mindfulness. I did mindfulness a few episodes ago, so make sure that you go back and check that one out to help balance this out a little bit.

And as I have a focus on mothers in this podcast, women's health, motherhood, reproductive health, and perinatal mental health, or just mental health in general. That's because motherhood comes with these incredibly high unrealistic expectations, which then turn, harsh judgments, whether that be from yourself or from others. It's all perpetuated by the myth of this perfect mother, this perfect mother does not exist. And yet every mother to some degree will set her expectations up against her perception of what the perfect mother is. And this myth can make us feel like we are never enough and that we're a bad mom and that we're never measuring up. Self compassion offers us a way out of that emotional trap by helping us treat ourselves with understanding and care, like we would a friend. Some of us are very good at offering compassion to others and not very good at offering it to ourselves. And then some of us are not very good at giving it to others and then in turn, we are [00:02:00] not very good at giving it to ourselves. So be mindful of where you're sitting in this I guess you could call it this spectrum of self compassion where we've got really harsh judgmental criticisms on one one end and self compassion and self love on the other. Where are you?

Are you meeting in the middle? Do you have a bit of both? Are you leaning more to one side than the other? I want you to open up and understand where you're at. Now I'm going to offer two little scenarios here of two mothers. They are completely fictional characters and fictional lives and everything about them is fictional. I've literally made them up. the top of my head. They might feel very real though, and maybe relatable. That's the point. So I'm going to give you these scenarios and I'm going to use these mothers as I guess my examples throughout this episode.

So Kate, she is a 34 year old mother of three all school aged children. She's now juggling a full time career in marketing after taking a break to raise her kids. So she's just getting back into the game and lately, she's finding herself incredibly overwhelmed. She's trying to balance that work home life and is finding it very difficult and often feeling guilty and inadequate. She often finds herself yelling at her kids. She's feeling very stressed in her body and tense. She's not sleeping very well at night because the to do list and tabs in her brain are open all night long. And she often has thoughts of I'm just failing at everything. I'm such a burden. I'm messing up my kids, et cetera, et cetera. Then we have Nora who's 26. She's a stay at home mom who is taking care of her two younger children, including an eight week old baby. So she's fresh in postpartum and has a toddler. She's absolutely exhausted. She struggles to find time for even basic care like shower and food and often feels low and frustrated and is always judging herself harshly. My house is always a mess. I'm disgusting. Why can't I do this? I should be doing this. She's having those kinds of thoughts.

Now, instead of Kate coming home and taking a stress out on her kids or her family, or even on herself with her really harsh critical thoughts. What if Kate took a moment to pause before she walked in the door or before she picked up the kids or whatever she was about to do and just took a breath. So this is the mindfulness coming into it. And what if Kate's inner dialogue was something like, I am feeling really overwhelmed and that's okay because I have a lot on my plate right now and it's normal to have moments of frustration doesn't make me a bad mom. It just makes me human. What would Kate's behavior look like now? So instead of being disconnected from her body and listening to those harsh critical thoughts. What if Kate took a moment to drop anchor, recognize how she's feeling in her body. And talk to herself in a compassionate way.

What would happen when Kate walked through that door?

Now, instead of Nora comparing herself and her house to others and being critical of her mothering and the like, what if Nora changed her dialogue to something like, I am completely exhausted and I haven't slept and it's okay to feel the way I feel right now. I'm still a good mom. It's just really tough right now, but I'm doing the best that I can.

What would her thoughts and behavior look like now?

Just simply having a moment of self kindness doesn't erase our challenges. It just offers us, or in this instance, Kate and Nora, a space of grace, which then helps to navigate your feelings with more gentleness and less judgment. And then in turn, gentleness with others this is the superpower of self compassion.

Now, I know many people struggle with self compassion and that is due to a combination of things like societal influences, depending on your culture, with self expression and expectation, also your personal experiences, maybe your upbringing, how you were spoken to as a child, where you ever offered compassion and just, These really internalized beliefs around strength and resilience and worthiness and productivity and the like.

Which all implicitly discourages expressions of vulnerability or self kindness and deems them as signs of weakness. And from a young age, lots of people may receive messages that value this sort of toughness and criticize emotional sensitivity, which leads to harsh self criticisms.

Often our early life experiences play a really crucial role in shaping how we are compassionate either to ourselves or to others. If you grew up in a home where affection or approval was based on like achievements or how well you suppressed your emotional needs, you might find it particularly challenging to embrace self compassion. And you even might fear that accepting your flaws or limitations could result in rejection or judgment. And that can be a really scary place to be. I just want to acknowledge how that feels. I just want to acknowledge that is reality for a lot of people. If this is really big and really deep for you, I do encourage you to go and seek some other professionals or resources to be able to get past those things so that you can practice self compassion. If that is your goal.

There's also a lot of misunderstanding of what self compassion entails. So many confuse it with like self pity or a lack of accountability, fearing that being kind to ourselves will undermine motivation or lead to some kind of complacency. But research actually has shown that self compassion fosters resilience, lowers emotional exhaustion and can actually enhance motivation by reducing this fear of failure. So individuals are more likely to persist in their goals when they treat themselves with kindness after setbacks rather than harsh criticisms. So if you think of Kate and Nora is struggling to keep up with the demand of having small children and feels like she's failing at it because she's got a messy a house or She didn't make her bed that morning or she's feeding the kids chips for dinner or whatever And then Kate who's Really harsh and yelling at her kids because she's just so incredibly stressed all the time. If we think about those two women in this scenario, how does self compassion reshape their lives?

The last thing I wanted to mention was stigma. We can't get past it when we talk about mental health issues, but stigma exacerbates difficulties in practicing self compassion. So those suffering from mental health challenges like anxiety or depression, they might internalize this societal stigma, which leads them to believe that they are fundamentally flawed or at fault for their struggles and this all comes down to self blame and it makes it really difficult to extend kindness and understanding to themselves when they have this really heavy self blame. And it's perpetuated by that cycle of really unhelpful self talk and emotional distress. So overcoming these barriers to self compassion requires challenging these long held beliefs and understanding the genuine meaning of self compassion and gradually cultivating a more kinder and more supportive inner dialogue and approach.

Learning to be a friend to yourself, if anything. Now, practicing self compassion is not always easy particularly if you struggle with any of the things that I've mentioned but to overcome these challenges, it's important to recognize and question the beliefs that hold us back. And remember that practicing self compassion is about building a healthier, more supportive relationship with yourself. Now, on that note, I wanted to talk a little bit to the neuroscience of self compassion because the brain is incredibly fascinating and it also just makes a lot more sense.

If you've been quite critical of yourself throughout your life, what happens when we have certain thoughts repeatedly is that you've heard the saying neurons that fire together, wire together. Your brain has then created these pathways of thought, and we can call them negative thoughts if you like, or criticisms. It's built these pathways of criticisms. Now doing this over a long period of time, those pathways become really strong. So then it can feel really difficult to think of anything else about yourself. But what self compassion can do is the more you practice this, it can create a new pathway. So a new pathway for compassionate thoughts around the already very strong pathways.

I saw a hypnotherapist a couple of years ago and he explained the process of a new thought or a new pathway as if you can imagine really tall, long grass, and you want to make a pathway through this really tall, long grass. After you walk the same pathway in that long grass multiple times, it's probably not going to be a very big visual pathway, right? But what if you did it for a week or a month or six months? What do you think the pathway in the long field of grass would look like now? Do you think it would be obvious? Do you think it would be flattened enough to be easier to see and walk through? If you're thinking about your brain like this really tall, long grass, and you're trying to create these new self compassion thought pathways in your brain, it has to be practiced regularly so that it sticks – the new pathway will eventually overtake the old pathways.

The impact of self compassion on your brain is actually really profound. It affects both your neurological and your psychological processes and research in the field of neuroscience has began to uncover how self compassion can lead to these positive brain changes and structures and functions, which ultimately influences our emotional regulation, our stress response, and our, Overall mental health. So what they found was harsh criticisms cause high cortisol, meaning it switches on the threat systems. And the more you criticize yourself, the more you create a threat and you get stuck in that stressful loop. A threatened nervous system is one where change cannot occur. So we have to be able to get ourselves out of that threatened state. Kindness tells your nervous system that you are safe. So then you can apply that kindness, that compassion. And when you perceive safety, that's when your body is safe. Can relax and settle you're back in that parasympathetic nervous state It's the rest and digest your mind opens and literally the synapses Open up allowing you to consider process and integrate new information. So practice kindness.

Now a lot of the talk is about gratitude. Gratitude is everywhere you look practice gratitude and oftentimes people will practice gratitude and be like, I feel worse. I never tell people to practice gratitude. And here's why. So when you're faced with life challenges, common advice is just to be more grateful, right? We, I'm sure we've all said that to ourselves at some point. This often exacerbates rather than alleviates the emotional burden you're experiencing in the first place.

And this happens because the emphasis on practicing gratitude often neglects a fundamental prerequisite, which is self compassion. Jumping straight into gratitude without recognizing or validating our pain. But, May inadvertently intensify the feelings of inadequacy or shame or guilt or whatever that feeling is. It's a way of dismissing the genuine difficulties you're already experiencing. And you may just bury those feelings further. If I could give you an example, so we'll use Kate. So she's been struggling with anger and yelling at her kids, which is a really common experience for mothers. And she believes due to these deeply ingrained beliefs about certain emotions, that the solution to her feelings is to just be more grateful, by comparing her situation to those less fortunate, which is often what we do when we practice gratitude and acknowledging the positives in her life, which is just like a positive thought insertion. She just instantly feels guilty and shame for her having those emotions in the first place. And then we'll and suppress her feelings. Never really addressing the anger.

Now, in that same scenario with the same mother, Kate, now imagine she acknowledges her anger and her outbursts without judgment and understanding that it's a natural response to her circumstances. And she reminds herself that it's okay to feel overwhelmed and that her emotions are valid without comparing her situation to others or downplaying her feelings. Just simply accepting and comforting herself. She creates a space to explore the roots of her feelings, helping to create a healthier emotional landscape. I will always say self compassion over gratitude

It's also been found that people who practice kindness paired with determination are people that evolve the most. A great starting point to understand self compassion and identify areas for growth for you is Kristen Neff self compassion test. I will put all of her details and the test in the show notes. Make sure you check them out. Plenty of guided meditations are also offerings that she gives and they're all available on her website. And they're just such a great resource for beginners here. The last thing was affirmations or journaling. I loved affirmations because it helped me flip that script. It reminded me that there are different pathways of thought that I can access. And I've written some affirmations for mums, which are self compassion based. And if you subscribe to my website, the power of birth. net, you get free access to over 30 self compassion based affirmations designed for mothers. And I also have birth affirmations there as well. So if you're interested, make sure you check those out.

I want you to remember that self compassion isn't just a practice. It's actually a journey towards recognizing your inherent worth and your strength. It's about acknowledging the struggle is part of being a human and that you're not alone. I really hope that you embrace self compassion and you reap the benefits of this way of living. Thank you so much for joining me in the mental health mini series. I hope you've enjoyed it.

And until next time.

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In this episode, Amber-lee, the host of the mental health mini-series, delves into the powerful concept of acceptance. Drawing from her training in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, she explores the importance of allowing emotions to be felt without judgment or resistance. Through a meditative exercise, Amber-lee guides listeners on a journey to accept and surf through their emotions like waves in the ocean, fostering a deeper understanding of emotional navigation and acceptance. Tune in to gain insights on embracing the full spectrum of human emotions and practicing acceptance in daily life.

Feelings Wheel available here: https://feelingswheel.com/

I encourage you to listen to the whole episode but if you would just like to enjoy the meditation start at 10:20.

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you.

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

Outside of Australia: Postpartum Support International www.postpartum.net

TRANSCRIPT

Hello, welcome back to another mental health mini series episode. Today I want to take you through the concept of acceptance. So accepting emotions probably sounds maybe a little vague or cliche, but I wanted to do an episode on acceptance because I have learned just how powerful this tool is. I recently completed some training in acceptance and commitment therapy, and while what we're going to do today is certainly not even close to it, I think the concept of acceptance is important and easy for everyone to understand practicing it may feel a little more difficult, but I just wanted to be able to give you a taste.

So firstly, I'll just take you through what I mean by acceptance, and then we'll do a brief meditative exercise to kind of help you incorporate the practice of acceptance in your life. Hopefully it'll just give you a good idea of what it means to accept all emotions.

So acceptance means to allow your feelings to be what they are without judgement or trying to change them and acknowledging your emotions no matter how uncomfortable they might be I want you to think about how often maybe you criticise yourself for feeling a certain way or maybe you avoid certain feelings, you tell yourself you're not allowed to feel them

Some emotions become so stigmatized, we feel even guilty for feeling them normal human emotions and we feel guilty or we suppress or we criticize or we avoid, we may have been told that certain emotions or thoughts were wrong or inappropriate. And maybe people are often uncomfortable around certain emotions for themselves, for others. So it's unacceptable for them to have them, but that also means everyone else can't have them. Now, when we talk about acceptance, a lot of people mix it up with thinking that we tolerate or put up with, or we give in or we're resigning ourself to it, but it's more about being able to drop the struggle with it and just making room, opening up for that emotion, that difficult emotion, letting ourselves feel The full range of the human emotions. If we open ourselves up to feeling the way that we do and just let it flow through us, giving it time to kind of dissipate in its own time, like all emotions do. This is actually really beneficial to our mental health. I like the analogy where if like you think about emotions like the weather, For example, sunny, cloudy, rainy, stormy, light, dark.

And then you think of yourself as the sky, the sky, experiencing. Changing weathers, right? You experience changing emotions. Sometimes it seems like we can have four seasons in one day and other days, maybe it's a good day. It's a sunny, nice beach day. And then sometimes we're going to have to weather the storms, right? So the sky remains, we remain as we are. And the weather comes and goes, doesn't define the sky. It doesn't fight the sky. The sky accepts the weather as it is. And this is what I would like you to consider today.

Something that I often find really helpful is to notice and name the feeling. So a lot of the time we're kind of going through our days and weeks and we're not really paying attention to what's happening in our body or in our mind. just being able to either put it out there by saying it aloud or putting it into our conscious thoughts. Things like I'm noticing a feeling of frustration. For example, you can now build on that. So not only are you noticing what you're feeling and you have expressed that with some kind of openness or curiosity or acknowledgement, you're naming it You're normalizing it and then you're kind of understanding the purpose of it. So I'm noticing I'm feeling frustrated. So you've noticed and you've named. It's normal to be frustrated right now because I've had no sleep and then I've had a really big day. I'm just making this up off the top of my head, but You see what I did there? I noticed, I named, I normalized because all emotions are normal. We'll get to that, um, point about emotions and normal behavior and expression of emotion is where the disconnect happens. But you've noticed, you've named, you've normalized, and then you've figured out the reason or the purpose of that emotion.

What is your body telling you? You're overwhelmed, you're frustrated, you've had no sleep, you've had a big day, you've had no breaks, you've had small children at you, your baby's cried non stop all night, you know, like there are reasons that we feel the way that we feel. And being able to acknowledge and name and notice, it kind of takes away some of its power or its hold on us and we can drop the struggle with it.

In the show notes, you'll find. Uh, what I, what's called the feelings wheel. This is something like all therapists and psychologists, et cetera, use. Now this has 72 different feelings and emotions on it. 72. It's funny because before I knew that it was 72, I was like, uh, you know, there's probably like 15 different emotions that I probably feel on a regular basis, but then you read the feelings and you're like, Oh no, yep. I've had all 72 throughout my life. and I encourage you to open up that document, print it out, have it somewhere where you can refer back to it when you want to practice noticing and naming. Because sometimes we don't always have the vocabulary to articulate how we feel and using the feelings wheel can give you that power. I find it really, really helpful to do.

I want you to know that there are so many benefits to practicing acceptance. And usually, like anything, we see the benefits over time. You know, nothing is necessarily immediate or imminent. Sometimes I will feel an immediate, response, like in breath work, for example, I feel the difference, but it's not until over a period of time that you've been practicing this skill that you will really start to notice the difference from when you started to where you are now. So I encourage you to practice the skill of acceptance. What we found in this practice is that. Big emotions actually become less intense and research has even found that it leads to better mental health But we still don't actually understand how it's a bit of a phenomenon What we do know though is that if we put up a fight so we suppress avoid criticize With these feelings that we don't want to experience or we can't accept, it can keep us in this dysregulated state and eventually lead to worse emotional health.

So that's just something to consider that sometimes our coping mechanisms are not actually helping us cope. Okay, let's get into the meditation now. I hope that kind of gave you a really good idea of what acceptance means. Think of the sky, think of the weather. I found that really helpful when I was learning about it. So the purpose of this meditation, it's just designed to help you navigate some big emotions you might be having lately, and it helps you practice acceptance and face those emotional ups and downs with more openness and curiosity and acceptance and compassion, et cetera. We're trying to drop the struggle with the big emotions. So throughout this exercise, pick a big emotion that you find that you're struggling with and try and incorporate that as I take you through it. Okay. Cue the music. Here we go.

Now just begin by finding a comfortable position, could be seated or lying down, whatever you prefer. Close your eyes if it's safe to do so, or just soften your gaze. And just take a moment, take this moment to settle into your space. Letting go of any immediate distractions or tensions.

Now take three deep breaths. Inhaling slowly through your nose, feeling your chest and your belly rise and then exhaling gently through your mouth.

Take another breath, exhale when you're ready and with each breath just imagine releasing any tension you're holding in your body.

Now picture yourself sitting or standing on a beautiful serene beach. Feeling that warmth of the sun on your skin, the soft sand beneath your feet, the gentle breeze against your face, hearing the rhythmic sound of the waves crashing onto the shore.

As you walk towards the water, imagine yourself picking up a surfboard, feeling its weight and texture, and now you're preparing to enter the water. Not to battle the waves, but to ride them and to flow with them.

Now you wade into the water with your surfboard and you begin paddling out to sea. Just notice the water's temperature and the strength of the waves in the ocean, and the vastness of it all around you. And you feel a sense of respect for its power. but also a deep confidence in your ability to navigate it.

Once you're beyond the breakers, sit up on your board, looking back towards the shore. This ocean represents your emotional landscape. The waves are like your emotions, sometimes calm, sometimes turbulent, but always in motion, always flowing, always changing.

Imagine a wave forming in the distance, growing as it approaches you. This wave represents an emotion you've been feeling recently.

As it nears, instead of paddling away, or fearing its impact, position yourself to ride the wave. Feel the anticipation, but also a deep sense of presence and readiness.

As the wave lifts you up, start to surf it. Feel the emotion as a physical sensation in your body. Whether it's a tightening in your chest, a warmth in your belly, a tingling in your limbs. Whatever it is, just allow it to be there without judgement.

Stay with the wave. Riding it with balance and focus. Notice how it feels to move with the emotion, not trying to control it, but also not being controlled by it. You are both part of the wave and apart as the wave inevitably begins to lose its power. Feel yourself gently coming down, the emotion is receding. You're left with a sense of accomplishment, and a deeper understanding of your ability to navigate your emotional world.

How does that feel?

Now paddle back out for another wave, knowing that each wave is an opportunity to accept your emotions. To learn from them, understand them.

And with each ride, your skills as an emotion surfer improve, and your fear of the wave diminishes.

Ride those waves as they come. What emotions are coming up for you

allow them to be as the wave. Coming and going. Flowing with intensity. Maybe they're appearing out of nowhere.

Understand that you have this ability to ride the wave.

After a few moments, begin to paddle back to shore. Step out of the water, feeling that sand and earth beneath your feet again. And now look back at the ocean.

Just thank it for its lessons.

Now take a deep breath in, bringing your awareness back to your physical surroundings in the room that you're in. And as you exhale, gently open your eyes and lift your gaze, carrying with you the strength and the wisdom you've gained from the ocean, your emotional landscape.

Remember that you are an emotion surfer. You have the strength and the ability to ride the waves of your emotions, learning from them, moving through them with acceptance.

That concludes our meditation today. I hope you understood a little bit more about what it means to accept your emotions and I hope you can practice being open to that. Acknowledge your default feelings, your default thoughts and your default behaviors and work on allowing yourself to feel the full range of human emotions because that's what makes you human.

Thanks for being here.

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4 of the Mental Health Mini Series focuses on mindfulness and explores the importance of being present in the moment. Your host, Amber-lee shares insights on the concept of mindfulness, its benefits, and guides listeners through two mindfulness exercises they can incorporate into their daily lives. The first exercise, '5-4-3-2-1 Senses Grounding,' helps listeners connect with their immediate environment using their senses, while the second exercise involves mindful eating that helps you practice being present. Mindfulness can reduce stress, improve self-awareness, and support your overall wellbeing, especially for busy mums, but anyone can do these simple exercises! Listeners are encouraged to practice mindfulness daily, when possible, and apply these techniques to their mental health toolbox.

5-4-3-2-1 Senses excercise begins at 10:43

Mindful Eating exercise begins at 16:32

Disclaimer:

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

References:

Baer, R. A. (2003). Mindfulness training as a clinical intervention: A conceptual and empirical review. Clinical Psychology: Science and Practice, 10(2), 125–143. https://doi.org/10.1093/clipsy.bpg015

Leng LL, Yin XC, Ng SM. Mindfulness-based intervention for clinical and subthreshold perinatal depression and anxiety: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trial. Compr Psychiatry. 2023 Apr;122:152375. doi: 10.1016/j.comppsych.2023.152375. Epub 2023 Feb 5. PMID: 36841089.

ACT Made Simple 2nd Edition by Russ Harris

TRANSCRIPT

Amber-lee (Host): Thanks for being here. Another mental health mini series episode. I'm so excited to share this one with you because today is all about mindfulness. And I promise mindfulness is not just a buzzword. Okay. So today I'm going to take you through two mindfulness exercises that are really easy to incorporate into your daily life as a busy mom who might struggle to be present, if you're anything like me. I love using mindfulness where I can in my life so I really wanted to share some techniques with you today. Firstly, I actually find it helpful to know what mindfulness is, how it's helpful. So I'll tell you a little bit about that. And then we'll get into the two exercises.

You can skip ahead if you want to as well. Mindfulness is actually just an ancient concept with a really wide range of spiritual and religious traditions dating back to at least 4, 000 years ago, or so we know. And Western mindfulness based approaches are mostly derived from Buddhism and many believe its basis is in meditation, but mindfulness can actually be used in many other ways.

So I'm not doing meditation today. I'm going to just purely focus on mindfulness.

There are lots of definitions, but to help kind of give an explanation of some of the practices you're going to be doing with me today, I wanted to give you a really good definition surrounding those practices. So, mindfulness is just all about living in the present moment. Accepting your current thoughts, feelings, what's happening around you, all without judgment.

It's a way to pay attention to the present what's happening inside you and outside of you with a kind and open attitude. So practicing mindfulness means you're aware of your thoughts, emotions, bodily feelings, and sensations and environment in a really focused and accepting way. It's about noticing what's going on around you right now. Without getting lost in the past or worrying about the future. I know moms sometimes we can be like, what if, what if, and where, and because we carry the mental load for our families, a lot of the time, that weight feels really heavy. And so we're often focusing on the past or worrying about the future and mindfulness helps us break away from those automatic reactions and habits that we might have leading to better control over our emotions and our attention, giving more self awareness and ultimately less stress. It's like training your brain to be more in tune with itself in the world around you, making it a really valuable tool for a healthier and happier life. You know, we live in a very fast pace society with heavy expectations on mothers. We often exist in systems that aren't designed for us or our children or our families to thrive. And one way that has helped me personally, along the way is mindfulness. I thought it might be helpful to give you like a kind of scenario, if you're having trouble placing it.

So maybe just imagine a new mom who's feeling Overwhelmed or anxious, or maybe a little bit sad after the birth of her baby. And this is a time, you know, when everything's changing her body, her relationships, her identity, her entire world, as she knows it. And it's only natural for her to experience these whirlwind of emotions.

But sometimes these feelings can be really tough to manage. And here's where mindfulness can make that difference. So by practicing mindfulness, this new mom can learn to focus on her present experiences with kindness and without judgment. So for example, when she's feeling these waves of anxiety or sadness, instead of trying to push those feelings away or criticize herself for having them, you know, maybe she's telling herself she should just be grateful because of X, Y, Z. She can just simply notice them. She can pay attention to her breath, the sensations in her body, or even the sound of her baby. And this helps her create a space of calm and acceptance around her feelings. It's kind of like dropping anchor. Right. And just being present, just acknowledging your emotions and feelings without letting them take over and really grounding yourself in the here and now, and by using this technique, just randomly throughout her day, she can find a way to navigate those emotional ups and downs of new motherhood. And it becomes a really helpful tool for not only reducing stress, anxiety, but for enhancing your overall wellbeing during a really crucial time. It's so crazy to me, right? That we have to practice being present. I mean that, what does that say about the society that we live in and how our lives are designed?

I wanted to share some of the benefits really briefly with you. I think it's really obvious after you practice this, I want you to pay attention to how you're feeling before. So right now, and then how you're feeling after you do these exercises. I wonder how you'll feel after you practice mindfulness. I'm really curious to know your thoughts.

So some of the benefits include things like a reduced. stress response. In previous episodes, we've talked about the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, that fight, flight, freeze, fawn response. And practicing mindfulness can actually lower your stress by reducing the activity in your amygdala. That's the emotional center of your brain that's responsible for the fight, flight, freeze, fawn. And when you practice mindfulness, you'll find that your body's stress response is lessened. It's, It lowers cortisol levels and it gives you that sense of feeling calm and you just have this more balanced emotional state.

It also improves your attention and focus which is really helpful and also gives you that sense of greater self awareness. It's funny, before I was practicing mindfulness, I had no idea how un self aware I actually was. But mindfulness can teach us that it's okay to experience a range of emotions, right? Because you're not judging them, you're not trying to push them away or avoid them, you're just simply accepting the emotion that you're in and the feelings that you're feeling and you recognize that they're temporary and that they kind of come and go. And you have this really non judgmental perspective, which can help make you That little bit more resilient when you face challenges.

There's lots of research on mindfulness. There's tons of like systematic reviews and meta analyses. They are, if you're unsure what they are, they're like top tier research. If they're, you know, if you think about a hierarchy and the different types of methods that people use in research, systematic reviews and meta analyses are top tier.

And what they found was mindfulness based interventions actually work better when they're combined with other therapies like cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, etc, etc. Those might just be words to you, but there is actually some scientific basis behind this. So sometimes mindfulness. And I think it's important to acknowledge that and we might need a little bit more support for our mental health. So please keep that in mind. All of these exercises that I do with you, they're just to simply help support you. Pack into your mental health toolbox and grab them when you need them. This definitely should not be replacing outside supports and resources. Okay, this is just one resource.

So I've got a really simple yet effective mindfulness activity to do now. It's called the 5, sensors grounding. That can be done in a few minutes. It doesn't require any special equipment or, or environment, you can just go be as you are right now and it's designed to bring your attention to the present moment, using the senses to anchor your thoughts and calm your mind. I recently actually did this exercise with, a young six year old boy who struggles with anxiety. And obviously I've got to, when you're working with kids, like you've got to make things into a game, you can't just be like, Hey, name five things, you know?

so we kind of, I set up this little game where he could really bring himself out of his head and back into his body. And it. We did, you know, finding three things around the room that were this color and blah, blah, blah. And he was so receptive to it. It's almost like his anxious state completely disappeared in that moment.

It didn't cure his anxiety that I just always want to reiterate that. And so I've seen this work, not only in myself, but I've seen it work on other people. I've even seen it work in children. So. I really, really love this exercise to help you get out of your head and back into your body. Okay, let's start.

So just in preparation, find a comfortable place to sit or stand where you can be undisturbed for a few minutes if possible. I know that we're all mums, so if you can't, that's okay too, okay?

(5-4-3-2-1 Senses Grounding Exercise) So I want you to now notice five things that that you can see. Look around you, bring your attention to five things that you can see. Pick something that you might not usually notice, like a shadow or a small crack in the [00:09:00] wall. Maybe there's colors or shapes or shadows or any other details that you can find and I want you to notice them and name them.

Five things you can see and I'll give you a minute to do that right now.

Now I want you to notice four things that you can feel. So this could be the texture of your clothing, the feel of the chair. Or floor beneath your feet. Maybe there's air on your skin. Or the weight of your baby or child in your arms. And just acknowledge each, each sensation as you notice it. So now I'm going to give you a minute to notice four things you can feel.

And now I'm going to give you a minute to notice three things you can hear.

Now I want you to identify two things you can smell. If you can't immediately smell anything, maybe move to a different spot or sniff something nearby like a pillow or your baby's skin or a cup of tea. Smells can be a really powerful way to ground yourself in the present moment. And so now I'm going to give you a minute to notice two things you can smell.

Now I want you to focus on one thing you can taste. This might be a bit tricky but that's okay, bear with me. Maybe take a sip of a drink that you have nearby. Maybe go and grab a piece of chewing gum. We'll just notice the taste currently that's in your mouth.

Now take a deep breath and let it out really slow. I'm going to do this one with you. Ready? Inhale,

exhale.

Just acknowledge how your body feels right now. How does your mind feel?

Just remind yourself that you can return to this exercise any time you feel overwhelmed or disconnected or just feeling like you need to be more present. This exercise is beneficial because it doesn't really require much time. So we've taken time to do it today, but you could really be doing this in 60 seconds.

It can be a really quick way to bring yourself back to the present, especially when you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious. And it helps in practicing mindfulness by engaging in your immediate environment. And remember, non judgmental is the only way.

Now, the second exercise I wanted to do with you does require a prop. Uh, so maybe pause the episode right now so you can go and grab it, we're going to be doing a mindful eating exercise. So it's just a way to help ground you using taste, and I usually like to use a grape. You can use dates or raisins, nuts, anything that you might have. So this exercise is from the father of Western mindfulness himself, John Kabat Zinn is his name. He used these mindfulness based practices and approaches decades and decades ago. I think it was roughly 40 years ago. So this is one of his exercises. You can use dates or raisins as I said.

I like to use a grape because I don't like dates or raisins, but you can really use anything that you want to. Okay, let's begin. So throughout this exercise, you might have certain thoughts and feelings that arise. Just let them come and go in their own good time. And keep your attention on the exercise. And if you realize that your attention has wandered, just briefly note what distracted you and then bring your attention back to what it is that you're eating.

(Mindful Eating exercise) Take hold of your food right now. I have a grape. What do you have?

I want you to look at it as if you're this curious human. Who's never seen such a thing before. And just notice the shape and the colour and the different shades of colour. Maybe there's parts where the light bounces off the surface. Just notice the weight of it in your hand right now, and feel the skin against your skin.

What's the texture like? What's the temperature like?

I want you to raise it to your nose and smell it. Notice the aroma.

Just raise it to your mouth and pause for a moment before biting into it. Just bring your attention to what's happening inside of your mouth.

Notice the salivation around your tongue and the urge to bite into it.

Now slowly bite it in half, noticing your teeth breaking through the skin and sinking into the flesh and the sound that makes and the sensation of sweetness on your tongue.

Notice your teeth meeting as you chew and you feel the food falling onto your tongue and the urge to chew it and swallow it. Don't swallow it yet.

Chew it slowly, noticing the taste and the texture. Notice the movement of your jaw and the sound that chewing makes, and the sensation of it breaking down. Notice how your tongue shapes the food.

Notice your urge to swallow. And as you swallow, Notice the movement in your throat and the sound it makes.

And after you've swallowed, pause and notice the way the taste gradually disappears from your tongue.

Notice your growing urge to eat the remaining half.

Now, as you eat the rest of your food in the same way, I'm going to sit here in silence and I want you to redo that on your own, looking at it like you're curious, the weight, the feel, the texture, the temperature, the smell. And as you bite into it, noticing what your mouth is doing, noticing the taste.

That concludes our mindfulness exercises for today. Remember you can come back to these at any time, or you can adapt these exercises in your own way. That's helpful to you in your daily life. Remember to take time to be present because your body will thank you for it. Thanks for joining me.

And until next time.

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This episode in the Mental Health Mini Series, I, your host Amber-lee, take you through one of my favourite techniques, Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR). This technique nourishes your mind and soul having a deep impact on your mental health and physiological responses to stress. Motherhood introduces unique psychological stresses, making us vulnerable to conditions like depression and anxiety. Yet, PMR stands out as a versatile tool, offering relief and resilience across life's stressful seasons; from depression and anxiety, sleep issues to managing chronic pain, stress, and more. PMR enhances emotional regulation and physical relaxation. This episode doesn't just highlight the science behind PMR's benefits; it also guides you through a practical PMR exercise by This Way Up, designed to equip you with a technique that can transform your mind and body in the perinatal period.

Join me from 7:38 in to begin PMR.

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you.

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

Resources and References:

The Way Up: https://thiswayup.org.au/ (your mental health professional can give you free access to ThisWayUp’s resources and courses as long as they have an account).

Abera, M., Hanlon, C., Daniel, B., Tesfaye, M., Workicho, A., Grima, T., Rasmus, W., Andersen, G., Fewtrell, M., Filteau, S., & Wells, J. C. (2022). Effect of relaxation interventions in pregnant women on maternal and neonatal outcomes: A systematic review and meta-analysis. medRxiv. https://doi.org/10.1101/2022.11.17.22282468

Ahmadi M, Rahimi F, Rosta F, AlaviMajd H, Valiani M. Effect of Progressive Muscle Relaxation Training on Postpartum Blues in High-risk Pregnant Women. J Holist Nurs Midwifery. 2019; 29(4):192-199. https://doi.org/10.32598/JHNM.29.4.192

Tan, X. Y. J., Choong, S. Y. X., Cheng, L. J., & Lau, Y. (2021). Relaxation interventions for improving sleep outcomes in perinatal women: A systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Journal of Midwifery. Volume 103. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.midw.2021.103151

Toussaint L, Nguyen QA, Roettger C, Dixon K, Offenbächer M, Kohls N, Hirsch J, Sirois F. Effectiveness of Progressive Muscle Relaxation, Deep Breathing, and Guided Imagery in Promoting Psychological and Physiological States of Relaxation. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med. 2021 Jul 2;2021:5924040. doi: 10.1155/2021/5924040. PMID: 34306146; PMCID: PMC8272667.

TRANSCRIPT:

Today, we're going to be doing one of my favourite exercises for your mental health. I love, love, love this exercise. I'm going to be taking you through a sequence of progressive muscle relaxation. I know it's a bit wordy, but I promise you, you're going to thank me later. So progressive muscle relaxation, or otherwise known as PMR, it works by engaging the body's natural relaxation response. So that involves activating the parasympathetic nervous system. So that's the rest and digest, the branch responsible for calming the body. After stress or danger subsides, right? So when we experienced stress that the sympathetic nervous system often referred to as the fight, flight, freeze, fawn response, that becomes activated leading to an increased heart rate, rapid breathing, muscle tension, among many other physiological changes.

Progressive muscle relaxation counteracts this stress response by systematically tensing and then relaxing different muscle groups. This process triggers a cascade of physiological responses that promote relaxation throughout your body and hopefully your mind. And as muscles relax, your heart rate decreases, your breathing becomes deeper and slower, your body blood pressure lowers, and the stress hormones like cortisol diminish. And these changes signal to the brain that the perceived threat has passed, shifting the body into a state of rest and recovery. So over time and with regular practice, PMR can help retrain the nervous system essentially. That's pretty exciting if you ask me, so you can actually teach your Stress response or your brain to respond more calmly to stresses this not only reduces immediate feelings of tension and anxiety, but also promotes that long term resilience against stress deal and cope with stress a little better.

So I thought PMR would be a really great one for mums to be doing and practicing. Now this is something that I did when I laid down in bed at night because I found it really difficult after my second born to fall asleep and I just felt wired and heightened and I definitely was tense. It was like I was stiff as a board on my mattress. It's like I didn't, I was so stiff I couldn't feel my mattress. That's how I would describe it. So this is something that I. Incorporated into my daily routine. So every night when I went to bed, I would do a progressive muscle relaxation from head to toe, and I loved it. I felt my body sinking deeper and deeper into that mattress until I fell asleep. And sometimes I wouldn't even finish because I was just so calm and so relaxed that I would fall asleep. So that is my hope for you.

Now, progressive muscle relaxation has lots of evidence to show that it helps with depression and anxiety. So I hope that with you practicing this, you actually feel those changes within your body and within your mind.

I want to say that this is not something that I would say is a cure necessarily. It's just a really great way to manage stress. It's a really great way to decompress to defuse and to put ourselves back in that parasympathetic nervous system state without further ado, let's get started. I will say that this progressive muscle relaxation is the actual one that I practiced and you also can do a progressive muscle relaxation technique in a matter of 30 seconds. Don't feel like you've got to be doing this all body experience. It's like I remember driving in the car. And I would be clenching my fists and then relaxing my fists and just even doing something as basic as that would trigger my nervous system to go, Oh yeah, I am safe and Oh yeah, I can calm down and everything's going to be fine.

So I'm giving you the full blown PMR technique today. But. Take it as you will. I have taken this particular exercise from ThisWayUp. I did that course quite a number of years ago. A psychiatrist gave me like a login for it and I loved it so much for perinatal mental health. So a big shout out to ThisWayUp.org.au They are incredible with what they're doing.

Let's get started. Just find a quiet space where you feel like you won't really be interrupted for a couple of minutes. Dim the lights if possible. Now there are no rules. You can leave your eyes open or you can close them. Close them, whichever you prefer, and also try not to tense your muscles too tightly.

So this should not be uncomfortable or painful. So we only want to go to about 60 or 70 percent capacity. Okay. So just keep that in mind while you're doing this exercise. And don't worry if your mind wanders during this exercise either. I always say, don't put too much pressure on yourself. When you're doing something like this, we can kind of get all worked up in our head about how we're not doing it right, or how maybe we're failing at it or that we can't relax. I don't want you to get caught up in those thoughts. I just want you to come as you are and just allow yourself to be impatient. Allow yourself to feel the way that you feel. You may also feel like this is a waste of time. And that may be because you're not used to feeling relaxed.

So I just want you to pay attention to what your body and your mind are saying and doing throughout this exercise. Cause it can be really interesting if we get curious about ourselves.

Okay. First, find a comfortable position and allow your attention to focus on your It's only on your body. Close your eyes.

Let them rest lightly on a spot in front of you. Let's start with a few relaxing breaths. Take a deep breath through your abdomen. Hold for a few seconds and exhale slowly.

Again, as you breathe, notice your stomach rise and your lungs fill with air.

As you exhale, imagine the tension in your body being released and flowing out of your body.

And again, inhale

and exhale.

As you go through each step now, remember to keep breathing.

Now let's begin. Move your attention to your forehead. As you inhale, tighten the muscles in your forehead by raising your eyebrows as high as you can. And just hold here.

And release. As you release, feel the muscles of your forehead relaxing.

Breathing in and out.

Next, tighten your eye muscles by squinting your eyelids tightly shut. Hold for about five seconds. And release.

Keep breathing in and out.

Move your attention to your facial muscles. Thorough your brows, and purse your lips together tightly. Try to pull all of your facial muscles forward, towards your nose. And hold here

And release. As you release, feel that relaxation of those facial muscles. How good does that feel? Are you noticing what's tight?

Remember to breathe. Now smile widely. Feeling your mouth and your cheeks tense. And hold here.

Now release. Just appreciate the softness in your face right now.

Now bring your awareness to your jaw. Clench your jaw tightly. Feeling the tension surrounding muscles of your jaw.

And now release. Feel the tension in your jaw just now. Ebb away.[00:11:00]

Bring your focus now to your neck and shoulders. Gently pull your head back as if to look at the ceiling and hold here.

And now release. Feeling that tension just melt away.

Now shrug your shoulders towards your ears. Feel the tension in the surrounding muscles and just hold here.

And as you release, just let go of all of that tension and stress.

And let yourself sink further into your surface, your chair or [00:12:00] your bed. And keep breathing.

Now bring your awareness to between your shoulder blades. Tense your upper back by pulling your shoulders back, trying to make your shoulder blades Just touch, and just hold here,

and release.

Take in a breath, now,

and just feel that tension leave your body.

Now move your attention to your arms,

tightly, but without straining, clench your fists, and hold,

and release.

Now flex your biceps. Draw your forearms forward towards your shoulders, switching on your bicep muscles. One at a time if you like. Feel that build up of tension. And just hold here.

Now release. And just enjoy that feeling of limpness.

Now tighten your triceps by extending your arms out and locking your elbows.

Hold here

and release. Just let your arms fall down.

Now bring your attention to your upper chest. Tighten your chest by taking in a deep breath

and hold.

Exhale. Blowing out all of the tension.

Now gently arch your lower back and just hold here.

Take in a breath if you can. And as you exhale, just relax.

Just feel that limpness in your upper body. Letting go of all that tension and stress. And just enjoy relaxing. Now

bring your awareness to the buttocks area. Squeeze your glutes together. Tightening those muscles. And just hold.

And now release. Feel that tension fall away. Imagine your hips falling loose.

Now bring your attention to your thigh muscles. Tighten your thighs by pressing your knees together, as if you were holding a penny between them.

And just hold.

Now release.

Coming back to the breath. Inhale, exhale. Inhale, exhale. Go at your own pace.

Now bring your awareness lower down to your calf muscles. Tighten your calf muscles by pointing your toes. And hold.

And now release.

Just enjoy that feeling.

Now bring your focus to your feet. Flex your feet. Pulling your toes forward. Towards you, and feeling the tension in your calves. And hold.

And now relax. Just feeling the weight of your legs sinking down.

Now tighten your feet by curling your toes towards the ground. And hold.

Just feel that tension.

And now release. Feeling it flow away.

Now imagine a wave of relaxation slowly spreading throughout your body, beginning at your feet, and moving all the way up through your body to the top of your head. And just feel the weight of your relaxed body, breathing in and out, in and out, in and out.

Is there any tension left in your body? If there is, go back to this muscle group and tense. Holding for five seconds before releasing. Remember to breathe.

Thank you for joining me today in your progressive muscle relaxation. Make sure, make sure that you check the show notes. You can come back to this episode at any time and try it again. Love to know what you think of this exercise. As you know, it is one that is personal to me and I love it. So until next time.

Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're listening and would like to share your story with us or feel compelled to talk about issues surrounding women's health, please don't hesitate to reach out. We would love to hear from you. You can find us at the power of birth on Instagram and Facebook or on our website, thepowerofbirth.net. If you loved this episode, we would love it if you left us a review on whatever podcast platform you're listening on and share us with your family and friends. The conversation has to start somewhere. Thank you again for listening and we hope you join us in the next episode.

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Box Breathing, also known as square breathing or four-square breathing, is a structured breathing technique with roots in ancient yogic practices. This technique involves a rhythmic pattern of inhalation, holding the breath, exhalation, and holding the breath again, each for an equal count of time, typically ranging from four to eight counts.

As a mum, you wear many hats—nurturer, chef, chauffeur, teacher as so on. With all the love and joy also come moments of overwhelm, anxiety, and exhaustion. That's where Box Breathing steps in, offering you a lifeline to regulate and feel more balanced. Whether you're juggling tantrums, soothing tears, or simply stealing a moment for yourself amidst the chaos, simple things like Box Breathing can support you.

Tune in and come take a breath with me at 8:20.

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you.

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

More resources to check out:

Episode 9: How Implementing Breathwork in Your Life Can Change Your Life with Nicola Laye: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/episode-9-how-implementing-breathwork-in-your-life/id1572162194?i=1000525309231

Nicola Laye: https://www.nicolalaye.com/

I also use Insight Timer or other meditation apps that incorporate the breath and I highly recommend!

References:

Zaccaro A, Piarulli A, Laurino M, Garbella E, Menicucci D, Neri B, Gemignani A. How Breath-Control Can Change Your Life: A Systematic Review on Psycho-Physiological Correlates of Slow Breathing. Front Hum Neurosci. 2018 Sep 7;12:353. doi: 10.3389/fnhum.2018.00353. PMID: 30245619; PMCID: PMC6137615.

TRANSCRIPT:

Amber-lee (Host): All right. Another miniseries episode for your mental health. I'm very excited about this one because this one is all about breath work.

I'm going to tell you a little bit about the physiological mechanisms that are influenced by the breath. And that's just for those interested in knowing how your breath affects your body. Then we're going to get into some box breathing, which is a really simple yet powerful technique that you can use to shift your body from stressed, intense. To that sort of rest and digest and calm.

So you can listen to me blubber on for a bit, or you can just fast forward straight to the box breathing.

Our breath is connected to the autonomic nervous system. So that's what regulates our involuntary bodily functions, right? So as you go about your day, there are things that your body's doing that you're not consciously making it do; your heart rate and your heartbeat digesting your lunch and just breathing as you walk down the street.

There's many more functions, but those are like the big ones, right? So through specific breathing techniques, we can actually influence the balance between our nervous systems. We have our autonomic nervous system and two nervous systems branch off from that. The sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system, and you've probably heard me talk about this before so the sympathetic nervous system is a branch that's responsible for your body's fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response. This is activated in times of stress or perceived danger and actually tries to help protect us when the sympathetic nervous system is more dominant, our heart rate increases, our breathing becomes rapid and shallow, and our stress hormones like cortisol are being released to help us in those stressful moments. Now sometimes this nervous system can flick on when we recognize that, okay, I'm feeling stressed, but the stress is actually unhelpful to me in this present moment. That's when we want to flick back to our parasympathetic nervous system. In contrast, the parasympathetic nervous system is a branch responsible for the body's rest and digest, promoting relaxation, restoration, repletion, all those good nourishing things.

So activation of the parasympathetic nervous system leads to the decreased heart rate, the slowed breathing and a reduction in those stress hormones so box breathing is a really simple technique that can help shift your body from that sympathetic dominant state to the parasympathetic dominant state.

And by consciously manipulating the breath in a specific pattern of inhaling, holding, exhaling, holding, like a box. That's four steps, each for an equal count. So I usually start with four, but you can do six or eight or 10 depending on the stretch of your breath, mine's not very good so I sit at about four and six, but this is when we can engage that parasympathetic nervous systems relaxation response, which is what we need more of in motherhood.

If you ask me, because being a mom can be very stressful. I don't do or say anything without some kind of evidence. So I looked up a couple of research articles and found an amazing systematic review. I'm going to say the name wrong, Zaccaro et al. This was a 2018 study and they examined the psychophysiological effects of slow breathing techniques. Through a thorough analysis, where they look at lots of different existing literature on the same topic. They looked at experimental and observational studies in their study, and the researchers found the significant impact of breath control practices on various aspects of human physiology and psychology. Their findings revealed that slow breathing techniques exert profound effects on the autonomic nervous system activity.

Promoting increased parasympathetic tone and decreased sympathetic arousal. Facilitating a shift towards a more relaxed physiological state. So that's what they found. That's what we know. And that's what I've already discussed with you, right? But what they found was slow breathing was associated with favourable changes in cardiovascular function, including reductions in heart rate and blood pressure contributing to improved cardiovascular health and these practices were found to enhance respiratory efficiency and respiratory sinus arrhythmia, leading to better oxygenated and carbon dioxide exchange in the body. So this is important because slow breathing techniques were also linked to enhancements in psychological wellbeing with the reductions in stress, anxiety, and depressive symptoms, as well as improvements in mood, attention, and cognitive function.

What they actually found was that A tool like the breath, something that you do without even thinking about it, actually has the capacity to change your physiological state, but also your psychological state. And I just think that's incredibly powerful. And that's one of the reasons I'm doing this miniseries is to offer you this information to offer you these tools because they are free and you can use them anywhere and anytime.

I'm going to be doing a box breathing with you. So just the idea about a box breath, if you're unfamiliar with it, it's just basically where you're inhaling for a count of 4. So inhale for 4, hold for 4, exhale for 4, hold for 4, inhale again for 4.

This kind of deep breathing stimulates what is known as the vagus nerve. And that's a key component of the parasympathetic nervous system, which leads to that decreased heart rate and blood pressure.

No matter where you are, you can try this technique right here, right now with just your breath. That's all you need.

Close your eyes if you feel like doing so. Otherwise, if you're still busy doing things and you just want to be doing this box breathing with me while you're doing them, that's cool too. We're going to be inhaling, and I'm going to be counting to four while you fill your lungs with air, and then you're going to hold your breath on the next four, then exhale on the next four, and then hold again on the next four. So that's the pattern.

Okay, you ready? Inhale.

Hold. Two, three, four. Exhale. Two, three, four. Hold. Two, three, four. Inhale. Two, three, four. Hold, 2, 3, 4. Exhale, 2, 3, 4. Hold, 2, 3, 4. Inhale, 2, 3, 4. Hold, 2, 3, 4. Exhale, 2, 3, 4. Hold, 2, 3, 4. Inhale, 2, 3, 4. Hold, 2, 3, 4. 2, 3, 4, exhale 2, 3, 4, hold 2, 3, 4, inhale 2, 3, 4, hold 2, 3, 4, exhale 2, 3, 4, hold 2, 3, 4. You can stop now if you like.

We didn't do it for a very long time today, but I just want you to be able to see if you can practice this for just a few minutes. If it feels too forced, just simply sit there and focus on whatever natural breath you're doing, but maybe add a hold in where you can because it's about that controlled, slow breath.

There are so many situations that you can use breath work in and when I was thinking about different situations that breath work is really helpful for, I was thinking as a mom, it's in those times of feeling overwhelmed or anxious or stressed where we want to quickly bring down our nervous system back into that calm, regulated state. There are so many moments, but I remember particularly when my son was 18 months old and my daughter was three months old cooking dinner, it's like mid COVID.

My husband was rarely home at that time. It was just like us at home all the time. No visitors, like no spontaneity. It was groundhog day every day. And I really struggled at dinnertime with, both babies wanting to be held and nurtured and also trying to get dinner on and stay within the clock so that by 7pm, I can be putting them to bed so that I could get a break.

And You know, the constant back and forth to the kids were holding at least one of them in my arms, cooking dinner and trying not to burn myself all or dinner, tending to their needs. Someone spilled something or broke something or someone's having a meltdown. It just felt like absolute chaos all the time. I just always found this time of day really stressful. Coming back to the breath in those moments, breath work would be so helpful just to see you through. It's not going to solve all your problems, but it's going to be able to help you see through that relentless dinner time.

It's also a practice I've used before bed because it promotes relaxation, and it prepares your body for restful sleep. So I still use breath work before bed. These days, it might not look like box breathing, but just some form of breath work. And my kids who are now three and five also do it. This is also why the breath is really good during labour and delivery. It helps you manage pain, stay focused, maintain that sense of control. And I remember when I was having my second baby, the labour was under three hours and she just came so hard and fast and quickly that the only technique I had time to use was the breath.

So I'd done some breath training with Nicola Laye, big shout out to Nicola Laye. I've done an episode with her, I believe in season one off the top of my head it's episode 9 of this podcast. And I did this in preparation for birth and I'm so glad that I did it. And I just had her in my head the whole time telling me to breathe, but it was such an effective tool. And because the breath promotes relaxation, it's so good for labour.

I also find just in the midst of those parenting challenges. So, the little story that I shared before about dinnertime, anytime you're dealing with parenting challenges. Like maybe it's the 10th tantrum in the day, just having a really hard day. Maybe there's lots of sickness in your house.

Maybe you've got a hundred tabs open in your brain at once. Maybe you haven't eaten all day, but you're now trying to leave the house and it's just becoming really stressful. Maybe your newborn is screaming blue murder in the car, but you just need to get from A to B. I remember those days. That was so tricky.

You could be trying to respond to your dysregulated child, but it feels like nothing's working. And so then you're feeling really stressed and over it. Maybe you're sick of the sibling rivalry and the fighting, meal refusal, and just the fact that you may even have financial pressures and that domestic labour that is never ending.

Just the challenges that come with being a parent. I've just named a tiny little sample of the things that we can experience, but it can be really challenging and really stressful. And you can be feeling really dysregulated. So it's important that we're taking care of ourselves and the breath can help us do that.

It can shift us from that really stressed, tense state to that relaxed and regulated state. And it's something that I would say to try and practice daily. You don't have to be doing a box breathing, but just practice conscious slow breathing daily. And I would love to know if this has helped you.

I hope you enjoyed the box breathing and I hope you feel more centred and at ease as you continue through your journey whether you're in the perinatal period or you have older children. Remember you have the power to nurture your own serenity one breath at a time. So until next time, take care of yourself, be gentle with yourself.

You're doing the best that you can and that is more than enough. See you next time.

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Welcome to season 4 of Can We Talk About This?!

I am kicking off with a Mental Health Mini Series designed with mums in mind, where you get 6 episodes with me, Amber-lee Buendicho, offering some basic tools and resources for your mental health that you can incorporate in your daily life. We all know the demands of mothering and personal life can be stressful, triggering, frustration, exhausting and I wanted to offer some of my favourite tools because we need to take care of ourselves too! This series is here to offer a helping hand, guiding you through a journey of emotional regulation, recognition, and acceptance. Each episode is crafted to empower you with the skills needed to navigate emotional landscapes and to instill practices that enhance wellbeing. These exercises are aimed at helping you find a moment of peace amidst the chaos, and fostering a deeper connection with yourself. This is more than just a series; it's a space for you to breathe, learn, and grow.

In this episode I take you through a simple body scan exercise ask you some follow up questions to help you integrate awareness. I then offer some insight into how our brain works when we feel big emotions and how something as simple as a body scan can bring us back to ourselves and some of the benefits you receive when you use body scan practices. Body scan begins at 7:40 mins and goes for a total 11 mins 30 secs.

This particular body scan is general in nature and was adapted from TherapistAid materials.

Disclaimer: While the content of this podcast is intended to provide support and guidance, it is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice. The techniques and practices discussed here are general in nature and may not be suitable for everyone.

If you are experiencing significant distress, mental health concerns, or trauma, I encourage you to seek support from a qualified mental health professional. Additionally, if at any point during this episode you feel overwhelmed or triggered, please turn it off and talk to someone or do something that is helpful to you.

Finding Support in Australia:

PANDA.org.au

1300 726 306

COPE.org.au

Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

Gidget Foundation

Black Dog Institute 1300 851 758

TRANSCRIPT

Amber-lee (Host):

Welcome back to, can we talk about this? I'm your host, Amberlee Buendicho. Thank you so much for joining me for another wonderful season. I took a big break from the podcast and, and my other studies to just kind of, Be a little bit more present in my life. Enjoy some time being a mum, being with my kids, going on adventures, and just kind of doing things that fuel my soul and my nervous system has really thanked me for that.

So, a kind little reminder to you mum is that if you need to take a break where you can, Please do because the world can wait. We need you to be happy and healthy too. But I'm back and I'm so ready to get into season four. I have an amazing lineup of guests for this season and we're going to [00:02:00] start really getting into some heavier topics regarding perinatal mental health.

The first part of this season, I'm doing something a little bit different. So, I'm offering a mental health miniseries. And this is sort of where I'll be exploring practical strategies for coping with stress and diffusing overwhelming emotions, calming your anxious mind, interrupting those negative thought patterns, but also trying to increase your awareness of your inner world, your brain, your body, and what's going on inside your inner world.

So these are just all basic essential skills that can help you. Not only help you survive those hard days, but also thrive amidst the challenges that you're facing. And I've also used these tools in my own life. I personally vouch for them. Motherhood is just such a unique experience for everyone. And we all experienced the highs and lows. We experienced the joy and the love, but then also it's just incredibly challenging with the sleepless nights, the endless to do list, the loss of identity, reparenting yourself, navigating tantrums or the unsettled baby, feeding difficulties, managing your own emotions, and just feeling like the weight of Cultural and societal expectations.

The demands of motherhood can sometimes just be completely overwhelming. I want to be able to offer you some tools that you can just simply adapt into your daily life when you're feeling exhausted, anxious, overwhelmed, stressed, or just need a little bit of self care. This miniseries is for you. So each episode I will offer the insights, techniques, and exercises that you can do to easily incorporate, and hopefully even empower you to take control of your mental health and your wellbeing. And I just want you to remember that you are strong, you are capable, and you are worthy of support because you matter too. So let's get started. The little exercise I'm doing today I'm kind of the purpose of it is I'm trying to get you out of your head and bring you back into your body. This is just a very, very basic and simple body scan exercise.

So you just need to simply listen to the prompts and follow along. Of course, I always ask that you open your heart and mind to the exercise and just give it a try. And I'd also love to know what you think. I'll get into the body scan now, and then just for time sake, so that we're getting into it. at the beginning of the episode.

And then after the body scan, I'm going to kind of talk about what we're doing and why we're doing it. And then also kind of the benefits of doing a body scan and when you can incorporate that into your life. So let's get started with the body scan.

(disclaimer) I should note that in some situations a body scan or meditative or mindfulness exercise may not be appropriate. For severe psychiatric symptoms and conditions, so psychosis, dissociation, uncontrollable panic attacks, a body scan might not be actually be appropriate for you. So please be mindful before engaging in this practice with me today. Also, um, for, Some people with PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder, certain aspects of body focus practices like a body scan can actually trigger traumatic experiences and memories or overwhelming emotional responses. In such cases, it's actually essential to approach mindful practices with some sensitivity and it might even be better to do a trauma informed approach rather than just something general, like I'm doing today to kind of prioritize your safety and emotional regulation. Going on from that, anything that's kind of like very acute. So during an acute crisis situation, such as suicidal ideation, acute mania or severe agitation, individuals may be in a state of very, very heightened distress and require immediate intervention from a trained professional. So. Mindfulness practice is really not the place if something is very acute. Um, so just keep that in mind. Severe eating disorders is the next one. Individuals with severe eating disorders, particularly those struggling with body image disturbances or body dysmorphia, they might find that they may find body focus practices like body scans, triggering or distressing. And it's just really important that you're working with a healthcare provider, a professional experienced in treating eating disorders to develop a more holistic treatment plan and addressing those underlying psychological and physiological factors. A body scan may not be appropriate in such situations. Um, and I also read a little bit about substance use disorders. So individuals with substance use disorders may have difficulty maintaining focus and concentration necessary for a body scan. Um, this could be during intoxication or withdrawal. So in such cases, I, a mindfulness intervention would not be the right approach. So just also consider that. The last thing was intellectual or developmental disabilities. Individuals with intellectual or developmental disabilities, including like autism, mindfulness practices like body scans may need to be adapted to accommodate for that individual's experience in sensory communication, cognitive ability, um, tailored, a more tailored approach and support from trained professionals would be necessary in this circumstance.

So just consider what I've said, and This would be regarding future miniseries episodes as well. Okay. While there's so many benefits to doing something as simple like a body scan in some scenarios, they're actually not helpful. So please consider that before you continue on with me today. Okay. Now let's get into it.

(body scan begins) Over the next several minutes, you will focus on the physical sensations throughout your body. These sensations might be the feeling of the clothes on your skin, tension within your muscles, temperature of the air, Or anything else that you can feel. Sometimes you might notice no sensation at all. Your job is to simply observe these sensations.

You do not need to change how your body feels or do anything else. To begin, sit back or lie down in a comfortable position. Maybe you're driving in the car right now. Maybe you're laying in bed. Maybe you're just simply sitting on your lounge. If it feels safe to do so, close your eyes or just let your gaze soften and take in a few big deep breaths.

Inhale and exhale. Find your own breathing pace.

Notice the feelings all throughout your body.

Notice your breath, notice your thoughts,and if your thought starts to linger, just bring it back to the breath, back to the body.

Notice your feet, including your sole, your heel, your toes, and the top of the foot. Notice the sensation of the ground, or your socks, or your shoes. Your shoes, or anything else around you that your feet can detect.

Travel up your body. Imagine a line from your feet, to your ankles, to your shins, to your calves. Notice sensations both deep in the muscles, and on the surface of your skin. Skin, how do they feel?

If your thoughts have lingered, bring it back to the breath. Inhale and exhale.

Find your breathing pace.

Now imagine that line moving up your legs. To your knees and your thighs. Notice how your clothing or how the blanket feels against your skin.

What sensations do you feel? Imagine

that line moving up your body again. Taking note of the feelings and sensations in your hips, your pelvis, your backside. Your backside. Simply just notice the sensations. and those feelings. Without any need [00:12:00] to change them, just name them.

Remember to breathe, inhale, exhale.

Pay attention to the feelings in your lower back and your abdomen. Moving that line. Notice how your body feels against the surface where you're sitting or laying down.

Notice the rise and fall of your stomach as you breathe.[00:13:00]

For a few muments, just pay attention to your breathing. Breath

in and out. Breathing deep into your body. Watch your stomach and your chest rise and fall when you exhale.

Bring your mind back to the breath.

Now move that line to your upper back and chest. [00:14:00] And just experience the sensations that you feel here.

Notice the material and how that feels against your skin. Notice your muscles. Your breath.

What are you feeling?

Now notice the feelings in your hands. Your fingers. And your wrists.

Maybe you feel like moving them gently. How does that feel?[00:15:00]

Just notice the sensations in your forearms, your upper arms, and your shoulders. Where are your shoulders sitting? Are they high? Are they rested? There's no need to change how you feel, just acknowledge it.

Moving that line up to your neck and your throat, and just pay attention to how that's feeling. Is it dry? Is it sore? Is it comfortable?[00:16:00]

As you breathe in, just check in with your neck and throat once more. Is there tension? Is it rested? How do you feel?

Just notice the feelings in your face and your head, moving that line. Attend to every feature on your face. One by one. Your jaw and your mouth. Your tongue and your teeth.

Your nose. Your eyes. Your eyelids. Your ears. Your brow. Your forehead. What did you notice?

Remember to keep breathing in and out at your own pace.

Finally, slowly use that line and scan your entire body. Noticing all the sensations. Start from your toes again. Slowly move that line. To your shins, to your knees, to your thighs, to your stomach, to your chest, to your shoulders, to your neck, to your face, to your head. What did you notice?

The body scan exercise is coming to a close, so at your own pace. Allow your eyes to open or move your body gently in a way that feels good.

Just notice how you feel. Remember to go gently. This concludes the body scan exercise. (body scan ends)

I just have some follow up questions for you now. How did you feel when you kind of started that exercise compared to now after completing it?

Was there any shift or change in your physical state? Your emotions? Your wellbeing? Are you now feeling more relaxed or grounded or present?

What did you notice during the body scan? Consider the sensations, the thoughts, the emotions that arose as you scanned each part of your body. Was there an area of tension or discomfort or unease? What stood out to you the most?

Think about how you approached any uncomfortable sensation or emotion that arose during that body scan. Did you notice any resistance, or avoidance, or judgement?

Did you struggle to offer yourself some self compassion and acceptance?

Did your mind wander during the body scan? If so, where did it go? Did you find yourself getting caught up in your thoughts or worries or distractions?

Were you able to gently bring your attention back?

This is just one practice to kind of bring you out of your head and back into your body and using a mindfulness based exercise to practice awareness and navigate stress and discomfort and difficult emotions in your life.

Just reflecting and asking yourself these questions can help deepen not only the practice for yourself but gain some insight into your inner experience. The purpose of doing and exercise like that. So we often experience really big emotions like anxiety or fear or anger or upset, even low emotions like depression.

There are several psychological mechanisms at play in the brain when we experience these big emotions. These emotions often trigger and activate what we call the amygdala. So this is a region in your brain responsible for processing emotions. A lot of the times it's referred to as the emotional centre of the brain.

This is particular for fear and anxiety, I should say. And when the amygdala perceives a threat, it initiates the body's stress response, also known as the fight, flight, freeze, or fawn response. And this response involves the release of stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline, leading to the physiological changes.

You may experience like increased heart rate, shallow breath, muscle tension, and so on. And in the moments of heightened emotion, we have another part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex, which is basically where your forehead is. And this part of the brain is responsible for all that rational and logical thinking, problem solving, abstract thinking, decision making.

But this becomes temporarily impaired when our amygdala takes over, when our fear and anxiety take over. And this can make it really challenging to regulate our emotions effectively and respond in a calm and rational manner. So engaging in something like a body scan can actually help mitigate your physiological and psychological responses because you're now pinpointing where you feel those sensations in your body and you're bringing yourself out of your brain and into your body.

So doing something like a body scan, there are many other methods, but I'm just using the body scan. And as an example, this actually activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is responsible for promoting rest and digest, right? This activation counteracts the stress response triggered by your big emotions.

So leading to a decreased heart rate. Decreased muscle tension and decreased overall arousal. We want to be in the parasympathetic nervous system state, right? We want the rest; we want the digest. Our body scan can also help us maintain our focus and sustained concentration. Practicing directing attention intentionally.

To different parts of the body and noticing those sensations that actually strengthens, strengthens those neural circuits associated with attention, regulation, and cognitive control. So just simply by bringing yourself back into your body and feeling your body and feeling those sensations that helps us maintain emotional regulation and respond more skilfully to intense emotions in daily life.

Now, nobody is going to get this perfect. I just want to reiterate that this is simply a tool that you can use. So next time you have a big emotion, you can think, okay, quick body scan, you know, head, eyes, nose, and just like imagine that line moving down your body or up your body, whichever feels right, and try and see where you're experiencing that emotion, where you are feeling that sensation of that emotion.

And just simply by being able to feel it and name it, that helps us bring it down. It's not going to cure anything. It's not, it's just a very simple exercise to practice awareness and be in your body. A lot of us are kind of living out of our bodies. These days, we're up in our head, we're heightened, we're wide, we're overwhelmed.

It's just something to bring it back in. Okay, this is, I'm feeling it in my back. Okay, I'm just going to take some deep breaths and just let my back relax, as an example. And just simply by doing that, you're interrupting that limbic system, that amygdala, that emotional center. And the stress response might not be as big, the big emotion might not be as big.

Just simply by doing a body scan. Try it. I'd love to know what you think. There's lots of research about the benefits of doing something like a, like a meditative body scan like this. You know, it helps lessen anxiety. So, there are plenty of studies. You know, there's over 47 meta analyses studies that have showed that, um, a mindful body scan meditation practice actually helps decrease [00:26:00] anxiety and may even be helpful for people with generalized anxiety disorder. It decreases stress levels. So when you're in that high cortisol state. that actually decreases your mental health. You'll have poor sleep, weight gain, difficulty concentrating, weakened immune system, and the high levels of cortisol and stress reactions become like this vicious cycle where we feel like we can't calm down.

So doing a body scan helps lower those cortisol levels. And in saying that, it improves your sleep quality. This could be something that you could do before you fall asleep at night, while you're driving in the car, anywhere. You can do this anywhere. It also reduces chronic pain.

According to this randomised controlled study with 55 participants that I found, a 10 minute body scan meditation done in a clinical setting actually quickly relieved chronic pain in some people. That was published in 2014, improved self awareness. I think that's a given. Body scans allow you to kind of tune in with what you're feeling rather than pushing your feelings aside.

You might notice that you have physical symptoms like chest pain or rapid heartbeat or cognitive symptoms like fear of losing control or poor memory, or even behavioural symptoms like you're pacing, you're agitated, restless, all those sorts of things. You may not recognize why you're experiencing these symptoms, but body meditate, body scan meditations can help you recognize.

And so that's part of being self-aware. We recognize within ourselves what we're feeling and where we're feeling it. This form of, um, meditation, I guess you could call it is also, it also just helps you simply relax. It puts you in that parasympathetic nervous system state that we just talked about.

And, you know, you focus on your breath, you focus on your body and it decreases that tension. And you have, a better ability to relax. And the last one is it just simply improves your focus. And that's all part of the self awareness as well.

Well, that's all I have for you today. I hope that by simply just being able to understand what I was doing then, and being able to bring yourself back into your body and do that body scan, that you can use this next time you're feeling those big, big emotions. You're feeling that cutoff from your rational, logical problem solving brain.

And I'm not saying that having those big emotions is a bad thing. They're actually. Our body is doing its job. It's when it's impairing your ability to function. So if I can use it in an example, so I'm feeling really stressed because we're running late and my son, you know, spills his cup of milk in the morning.

And so now I've got to clean up this milk and now, um, you know, it just, if it's like the cherry on top, right. I'm sure we've all been there before. My body's response is more stress, right? Because we're running late and I need to get out the door, but now I've got to spend time cleaning up this milk.

So just by being able to be like, okay, yep, I feel stressed in my back right now. I need to take a breath. I'm then being the parent that I want to be. So I have a healthy way of coping with the stress and I'm not taking out on my child or myself or my husband, for example, um, And that I can be the parent and the person that I want to be.

And I'm following the values that I have, which is I don't want to yell at my son and take my stress out on him because it was an accident and accidents happen. So I'm going to take a breath. I'm going to take a moment. I'm going to check in with myself before I respond. And the body scan is just something you don't have to be doing a 10 minute body scan. You can just be simply doing this in a matter of like 10 seconds. So taking that 10 seconds, scanning your body. Okay. I know how I'm feeling now. Okay. And offering not only yourself some [00:30:00] compassion, but maybe your child in that scenario as well. That's like a tiny little scenario that I could give you. Um, I am now rambling, so now I am going to end, but I hope that that was helpful to you.

I look forward to doing more of these exercises with you. I've got some really good ones up my sleeve, but I just thought that I would start with something really, really, really basic so that you could kind of be checking in with yourself. It's kind of like the fundamentals of A lot of these tools and resources that I'm going to be sharing with you. Until next time, thank you so much for listening.

We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're listening and would like to share your story with us or feel compelled to talk about issues surrounding women's health, please don't hesitate to reach out. We would love to hear from you. You can find us at the power of birth on Instagram and Facebook or on our website, the power of birth.net. If you loved this episode, we would love it if you left us a review on whatever podcast platform you're listening on and share us with your family and friends. The conversation has to start somewhere. Thank you again for listening and we hope you join us in the next episode.

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Brianna talks about her experience in her first pregnancy which was full of excitement and preparation to then find out at 14 weeks her baby had passed at 10 weeks gestation. Brianna talks about the devastating realisation she had been carrying a dead baby and openly talks about what her physical loss looked like and the aftermath of her ‘missed miscarriage’ and the impact grief, sadness and post traumatic stress symptoms had on her mind and life. When Brianna did finally fall pregnant again, everything was ok but the dark cloud of possible complications or loss followed her for the entire pregnancy. Brianna shares her feelings and experiences throughout her pregnancy and into her birth. Brianna talks of an empowering birth experience but a difficult postpartum with a very unsettled baby, feeding struggles and trying to decipher anxiety and intuition as a new mother.

If you are struggling with pregnancy loss or infant loss, please reach out to these amazing organisations who can support you

www.pinkelephants.org.au

www.sands.org.au

www.postpartum.net

If you are struggling with your mental health in pregnancy or postpartum, please reach out to

www.panda.org.ay

www.postpartum.net

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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Rebecca bravely shares her experiences struggling with her mental health since childhood and how her experiences becoming a mother exacerbated her struggles. Rebecca openly shares about her very wanted pregnancy and how anxiety and tokophobia (clinical fear of childbirth) robbed her of any joy or excitement and how that impacted her birth decisions and immediate postpartum experiences. We chat about distinguishing anxiety, tokophobia and common fears of childbirth.

Rebecca shares about her birth and the acute psychological distress she experienced and how that impacted her postpartum which quickly took a scary turn. Rebecca was admitted into a Mothers and Baby Unit to treat her mental health struggles and she shares about how this completely transformed her mental health and her life. Rebecca talks candidly about her grief, self blame, the experience of anxiety, OCD and intense intrusive thoughts as well as her struggles accepting diagnoses and support including medication. We also chat about the importance in having mental health professionals with a special interest in perinatal mental health issues and the difference that made in Rebecca’s diagnosis and recovery.

There is so much to learn from those who have lived experience with these mental health conditions and I truly believe this episode can benefit other struggling mums simply by real talk and validation, but also for mental health professionals who work with mums.

You can find Rebecca at @perinatalstoriesaustralia on socials, her podcast Perinatal Stories Australia or website www.perinatalstoriesaustralia.com

If you or someone you know is experiencing signs and symptoms of anxiety, depression, OCD, tokophobia or PTSD – please urgently seek professional help.

www.cope.org.au (they also have a perinatal psychologist directory)

www.panda.org.au

www.gidgetfoundation.org.au

www.birthtrauma.org.au

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Too often struggling mums go to get support for their mental health and are told, “its just the baby blues, it will pass” when really, it’s not the baby blues. I, Amber-lee your host, thought an episode addressing all things baby blues would be helpful to this audience so that we can have an understanding of what is normal and what is not in early postpartum. I describe what the baby blues looks like, common symptoms, hormonal fluctuations, sociocultural factors, ways to help you through it as well as when to seek help.

Remember, the baby blues are temporary and should pass within 2 weeks of experiencing symptoms. If symtpoms are persisting or worsening, it is important you seek further support as that is not that baby blues.

In this episode I talk about a hormone graph and if you would like the visual you can see it here: https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/post/understanding-the-difference-between-baby-blues-and-postnatal-depression-a-guide-for-new-mothers

This episode is for educational and informational purposes only. Please seek mental health advice from your health professionals.

You can download free resources for your emotional health when you subscribe to thepowerofbirth.net or if you head to the printable PDF page there is plenty for you to explore.

Make sure you are following @thepowerofbirth on social media too!

References:

David R. Grattan, Sharon R. Ladyman, Chapter 2 – Neurophysiological and cognitive changes in pregnancy, Handbook of Clinical Neurology, Volume 171, 2020, Pages 25-55.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/find-support/topics/postpartum/baby-blues-after-pregnancy#:~:text=The%20baby%20blues%20usually%20go,your%20partner%2C%20family%20and%20friends.

Some information was taken from Advanced Perinatal Mood and Anxiety Disorder Training with Postpartum Support International

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This episode delves into the often-overlooked world of perinatal trauma and post-traumatic growth. Your host Amber-lee Buendicho is joined by the very down-to-earth and insightful Dr. Erin Bowe, author of the book 'More Than A Healthy Baby: Finding Strength & Growth After Birth Trauma'. We talk about what led her to write this book and Dr Erin expands on some of the concepts she writes about, including her own traumatic birth and breastfeeding experiences.

We explore the complexities of perinatal trauma, including birth and breastfeeding trauma, differentiating what Dr Erin calls 'little t trauma' and 'big T trauma', the psychological mechanisms of trauma, the role of perception, and gaining an understanding of how these experiences can deeply affect a mother's and families.

One of the critical issues discussed in this episode is the tendency to dismiss mothers' experiences and struggles, often misdiagnosing their trauma as mere depression. Dr. Erin sheds light on the importance of recognising and addressing the unique challenges faced by mothers in the perinatal period, helping listeners understand the difference between trauma and other mental health issues.

We learn through Dr Erin about Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) emerges as a promising and effective therapeutic approach. Dr. Erin provides valuable insights into the workings of EMDR and its potential to facilitate healing and growth after perinatal trauma.

In the latter part of the episode, we explore the profound concept of meaning-making and how it contributes to post-traumatic growth. The conversation delves into the power of hope and resilience within motherhood, revealing that growth and strength can emerge from even the most challenging experiences and what that can look using Kintsugi as a powerful analogy. Amber-lee shares some of her personal experiences with post-traumatic growth.

Disclaimer: The content of this episode is intended for informational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for professional medical or psychological advice.

A big thank you to The Kind Press Publishing and Dr Erin Bowe for offering some of our listeners a chance at getting their very own copy of Erin's books More Than A Healthy Baby: Finding Strength & Growth After Birth Trauma and Social Media Detox For Mums: A New Way To Find Balance - listen to this episode to find out how you can get a free copy (Australian residents only). Limited stock available.

If you or someone you know is struggling with their mental health in motherhood please consider reaching out to the wonderful support organisations within Australia:

www.cope.org.au

www.panda.org.au

www.birthtrauma.org.au

www.gidgetfoundation.org.au

For our international listeners go to www.postpartum.net

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Join me as I sit down with Vanessa, mum and Sex Therapist from Authentic Awareness, for an eye-opening discussion on the topic of sex after having a baby. Together, we delve into the often overlooked aspects of postpartum sex and how the conventional postpartum six-week clearance from healthcare providers can be a missed opportunity for important conversations with women and couples.

Throughout our conversation, we tackle a wide range of issues, starting with the fluctuation of libido and the differences in sexual desires between males and females. Vanessa, drawing from her expertise, generously shares her invaluable tips for rediscovering sensuality after becoming a mother. We address the complexities of navigating intimacy when our partner initiates sexual activity, but we find ourselves not in the mood or feeling exhausted from the demands of motherhood. We also discuss the societal pressure to prioritise intercourse over other forms of sexual connection and intimacy, and the cultural expectations of women and sex, shedding light on alternative ways to nurture and strengthen the bond between partners.

Naturally, a conversation about postpartum sex wouldn't be complete without addressing birth injuries. We explore how these injuries can impact sexual experiences and provide insights into navigating this often overlooked aspect of postpartum recovery.

You can find Vanessa @authenticawareness or https://authenticawareness.com.au/

You can purchase Mama’s Sensual Safari here: https://authenticawareness.com.au/courses/

Disclaimer: The information provided is for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for professional advice or consultation. It is important to consult with healthcare providers or qualified professionals for personalized guidance and support regarding your specific situation.

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In this powerful episode, we follow the courageous journey of Bec Black, a perinatal psychologist and mother of three, as she shares her deeply personal and traumatic experience of attempting a Homebirth After Caesarean (HBAC). Bec takes us through her emotional and physical struggle, the unforeseen challenges she faced during labour, and her transfer to the hospital.

Throughout the episode, Bec opens up about the intense emotions she grappled with following her traumatic birth experience. She talks honestly about the profound struggle she encountered in accepting that her birth did not unfold as she had hoped and offers vulnerability and insight into the complex emotions that can arise when expectations clash with reality during childbirth.

As a psychologist specialising in perinatal mental health, Bec also reflects on how her own journey informs her professional practice. She shares how her personal experience of birth trauma has deepened her empathy for her clients, and discusses the importance of acknowledging and addressing the emotional wounds that can arise from childbirth.

The episode delves into Bec's postpartum journey as well, shedding light on the challenges she faced during this vulnerable period. She explores the impact of her birth experience on her mental and emotional wellbeing, and how she navigated the path towards healing and acceptance. Her story serves as a beacon of hope for others who may have experienced trauma during childbirth, inspiring them to seek support and reminding them that healing is possible.

Join us for this heartfelt episode as we witness Bec's courage, resilience, and growth, ultimately discovering that even in the face of trauma, there can be the possibility of finding purpose and healing.

The following episode contains sensitive content related to traumatic childbirth. We advise listeners to prioritise their wellbeing and exercise self-care when engaging with this content. If you find yourself in need of support or guidance, please reach out to a qualified healthcare professional or a mental health provider.

You can find Bec @themindfulbirthmovement or https://themindfulbirthmovement.com.au/

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This episode is a little different as your host, Amber-lee offers some practical tips and experiences with finding the right psychologist or mental health professional during the perinatal period. This episode offers an exploration of unique challenges that arise during the perinatal period and why it is crucial to seek a mental health professional who has specialised knowledge in perinatal mental health - because specialised knowledge matters!

Amber-lee, a passionate advocate for maternal wellbeing, draws from personal experiences and shares valuable insights on navigating the process of finding the ideal psychologist who understands the needs and complexities of this time, the importance of researching their experience and training, feeling comfortable and safe, who validates your experience. Amber-lee emphasises the benefits of working with professionals who have expertise in various therapeutic approaches, who offer tools, techniques and skills to support your healing journey.

“I hope this episode empowers you to reach out for help if you are struggling and make informed choices in choosing those who will support you.” – Amber-lee

While this episode mainly focuses on 'psychologists' you can certainly apply the tips to any mental health professional who will support you - psychiatrists, occupational therapists, counsellors, psychotherapists, social workers, mental health nurse, GPs and so on.

Here are some free organisations within Australia that can provide a range of support services to you:

For our international listeners, a great place to start is Postpartum Support International www.postpartum.net

COPE.org.au has a wide range of resources and information AND a perinatal mental health professional directory within Australia: www.cope.org.au

PANDA: www.panda.org.au

ABTA: www.birthtrauma.org.au

Gidget Foundation: www.gidgetfoundation.org.au

Brisbane/Logan QLD only - Peachtree: www.peachtree.org.au

If you or someone you know is at risk of harm to themselves or others, please call 000 (or your national emergency services number).

Disclaimer: The tips provided in this podcast episode for finding the right psychologist are intended for informational purposes only

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In this episode, join me as I sit down with Kath from FitNest Mama to talk about all things c-section recovery, and your pelvic floor does not escape this conversation! We explore a range of important aspects surrounding this subject, shedding light on what to expect during the recovery process, signs and symptoms something isn’t right, safe sequential and functional exercises postpartum, and so much more.

Kath and I also emphasise the significance of seeking support from Women’s Health Physiotherapists. Our conversation extends into our hopes for improved healthcare practices to prevent women from living with preventable and treatable pelvic health conditions.

Tune in to gain valuable insights into c-section recovery, pelvic floor health, and discover actionable tips for a smoother postpartum journey. Whether you’re a new mum who has had a belly birth or simply interested in women’s health, this episode offers a wealth of information.

If you or someone you know is struggling with their post birth recovery, whether that be from a c-section or vaginal birth, please consider seeking assessment and support from a Women’s Health Physio near you. Here is a pamphlet with more information: https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/printable-pdfs or check out: https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/pelvic-health

You can find Kath on socials @fitnestmama

View her website and courses: https://www.fitnestmama.com/

Please note, like all episodes, the advice given on this podcast is of a general nature and should not be considered as personalised or professional advice.

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In this episode, your host Amber-lee, speaks to Danni-Leigh about her experiences and challenges with infertility living in rural Queensland, Australia, receiving a late diagnosis of Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS), the emotional rollercoaster of navigating in-vitro-fertilisation (IVF), and the unforeseen emergency surgery to drain her ovaries and remove her fallopian tubes.

Throughout the conversation, Danni sheds light on the physical, emotional and financial toll infertility takes on her life. She speaks candidly about the unspoken struggles and longing for a family that she has been fighting for relentlessly for years. With refreshing honesty, Danni addresses the lack of education surrounding menstrual cycles and conditions like PCOS, emphasising the importance of early education about our bodies for empowerment, particularly when wanting to start a family.

Danni also delves into the loneliness, anger and sadness during her IVF journey. By sharing her vulnerabilities, Danni highlights the need for greater understanding, empathy, and support for those battling infertility.

Can We Talk About This? is available on all podcast platforms for your listening pleasure.  

If you are struggling with infertility there are some amazing organisations out there with support, blogs, resources and more including:

https://fertilitysupport.org.au/

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In this episode, we have the pleasure of hosting Sarah Z, a courageous mother and founder of Birth Made Mindful, who shares her transformative journey through birth experiences and her subsequent path to becoming a doula. Sarah's story begins with a difficult birth that unexpectedly turned into a caesarean section with her first baby. Determined to have a different experience in her subsequent births, Sarah embarked on a quest for knowledge and empowerment.

As Sarah delved into birth preparation for her second and third pregnancies, she came to the realisation that the challenges she faced were not her fault. Through her personal experiences, she discovered that essential elements were missing from traditional birth education that could empower women in any birthing scenario.

During our conversation, Sarah candidly shares her birth experiences and the valuable insights she gained along the way. Her wisdom extends beyond specific birthing techniques and encompasses a holistic perspective on motherhood. No matter where you find yourself on your own motherhood journey, you'll find inspiration and valuable takeaways from Sarah's profound insights.

Can We Talk About This? is available on all podcast platforms for your listening pleasure.

Sarah is located in Salt Lake City, Utah USA and you can find her birth courses online for birth and motherhood:

Our listeners can receive 30% off either course by using the code: thepowerofbirth at www.birthmademindful.com

@birthmademindful

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Neurodiverse people make up about 12% of Australians and are often underrepresented and misunderstood and so it is really important to have conversations and bring awareness to such a deserving topic. In this episode, Sarah, mum of 3 children, 2 with neurodiversity, chats to me about her experiences becoming a mother and realising her children were different and seeking answers. Sarah talks about the challenges of raising children with neurodiversity in a neurotypical world but also the beauty that it brings, looking at the world through a different lens. Sarah speaks to her motherhood journey and fighting an eating disorder, relationship changes and struggling to find where her family fits on the spectrum. Sarah has a wealth of knowledge and experience and offers her experience raising neurodiverse children to help other families walking the same path.

You can follow Sarah on socials @sarahkaywatts or her blog: www.sarahkaysway.com

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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In a world where 1 in 3 women describe their birth experience as traumatic and up to 1 in 10 go on to develop PTSD following childbirth, conversations like this are a necessity. Raising awareness and openly talking about ways to recognise and seek support. I had the pleasure of chatting with Dr Rosie Pajak, a clinical psychologist about all things birth trauma. We go into detail about the varying levels of trauma and what they look like, the importance of psychological safety, what makes birth traumatic, vicarious trauma, consequences of birth trauma in motherhood, ways we can prepare for another birth after trauma and healing. Dr Rosie is a wonderful clinical psychologist dedicated to helping families recover from birth trauma and this episode is full of wisdom for anyone preparing for a birth, birthing after trauma or even if you work with birthing women and families!

You can find Rosie @birth_healing_collective or @dr_rosie_psychologist

Her website: www.rosannapajak.com or www.thebirthhealingcollective.com

If you or someone you know is struggling with their birth experience please consider reaching out to:

ABTA www.birthtrauma.org.au

PANDA www.panda.org.au

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With the ongoing political & religious debate on abortion, a mother of a genetic disorder opens up about her experience of TFMR and the impact this has had on her. Bec shares information about her genetic disorder and how that changed what her family would look like, having a 'missed miscarriage' D&C and a 'chemical miscarriage' after the birth of her healthy daughter. Bec opens up about finding out her baby had a chromosomal condition (BFLS) and the decision to terminate and the hoops she had to jump through to have that happen. Bec describes TFMR as a “no choice choice” and the taboo of baby loss and her story is worth considering in conversations around abortion.  

Please consider what you are consuming before deciding to tune into this episode as this includes sensitive content.    

If you have experienced pregnancy loss including TFMR and need support please head to: https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/ 

Website / organisation mentioned in the episode: https://www.childrenbychoice.org.au/ 

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In Australia we have a high caesarean section rate (37%) and a very low VBAC rate (12%). Dr Hazel Keedle is a VBAC researcher and VBAC mama herself and she joins me to chat about why it is so challenging for women to have a VBAC, the truth about risk of uterine rupture and vaginal tearing, what to do to increase your chances of a VBAC, advocating for yourself and what to do if you have been scared out of one when you want one. Dr Keedle also shares details about her recent study on obstetric violence where they found 1 in 10 women experience obstetric violence. She highlights the importance of acknowledging obstetric violence on political and national levels as well as normalising violence in maternity practice where women have been abused, assaulted, coerced, threatened and bullied into procedures they never wanted and/or were never necessary.

Please consider what you are consuming as this episode does contain sensitive content.

Find Dr Hazel Keedle @hazelkeedle or on facebook @vbacmatters

Buy her book: https://stores.praeclaruspress.com/birth-after-caesarean-your-journey-to-a-better-birth-by-hazel-keedle/

Attend a workshop: https://linktr.ee/hazelkeedle

Read the Obstetric Violence Research Paper: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/10778012221140138

If you would like to watch the Birth Time documentary: https://www.birthtime.world/watch-now

If you are experiencing emotional distress relating to your birth please reach out to:

PANDA https://panda.org.au/

Human Rights in Childbirth https://www.humanrightsinchildbirth.org/

Gidget Foundation https://gidgetfoundation.org.au/

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This is an episode FULL of gems!! Have you struggled with the pressures of being a perfect mother or never feeling good enough?! Ali Pember, a coach and psychotherapist for 10 years who works with mothers shares a snippet of her experience becoming a mother unexpectedly later in life and the role matrescence played in her life choices. Ali also shares her wisdom on the pressures of motherhood, the cultural narrative and the perfect mother myth, valuing the work we do as mothers and how important the language we use is in valuing ourselves, how to feel good enough rather than trying for perfect, comparing ourselves, the ‘conspiracy of silence’ and shame in motherhood and maternal ambivalence.

We only just scratch the surface on this topic and it is most certainly worth understanding your own personal perfect mother myth and realigning yourself with what you deem to be a good enough mother.

Ali is based in the UK and you can find her on socials @goodenoughmamas and www.goodenoughmama.co.uk

Helpful topics to further this conversation and understanding:

Sharon Hayes – Intensive Mothering

Dr Sophie Brock – The Perfect Mother Myth

Andrea O’Rielly – Matricentric Feminism

Donald Winnicott – Parent – Infant Relationship (mentioned in the episode)

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This episode is a little different as it is just me, Amber-lee, your host behind the mic chatting about my recent Honours research study on subjective birth trauma and birth debriefing and my findings but also what led me down the childbirth rabbit hole 18 months ago. There’s a lot of information in this episode but I hope you find it interesting!

If you would like a copy of the results of this study please email me thepowerofbirth@outlook.com

Thank you to everyone who promoted and/or completed the study. Your voice is so needed in this space and I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me.

If you have experienced birth trauma and require support please reach out to:

Australasian Birth Trauma Association www.birthtrauma.org.au

PANDA www.panda.org.au

Postpartum Support International www.postpartum.net

References:

Bryanton, J., Gagnon, A. J., Johnston, C., & Hatem, M. (2008). Predictors of Women’s Perceptions of the Childbirth Experience. Journal of Obstetric, Gynecologic & Neonatal Nursing, 37(1), 24–34. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1552-6909.2007.00203.x

Chadwick, R. (2018). Bodies that Birth: Vitalizing Birth Politics. Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315648910

Grekin, R., & O’Hara, M. W. (2014). Prevalence and risk factors of postpartum posttraumatic stress disorder: A meta-analysis. Clinical Psychology Review, 34(5), 389–401. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2014.05.003

Johanson, R., Newburn, M., & Macfarlane, A. (2002). Has the medicalisation of childbirth gone too far? BMJ : British Medical Journal, 324(7342), 892–895.

Kjeldgaard, H. K., Vikanes, Å., Benth, J. Š., Junge, C., Garthus-Niegel, S., & Eberhard-Gran, M. (2019). The association between the degree of nausea in pregnancy and subsequent posttraumatic stress. Archives of Women’s Mental Health, 22(4), 493–501. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00737-018-0909-z

Reed, R., Sharman, R., & Inglis, C. (2017). Women’s descriptions of childbirth trauma relating to care provider actions and interactions. BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth, 17(1), 21. https://doi.org/10.1186/s12884-016-1197-0

Sheen, K., & Slade, P. (2015). The efficacy of ‘debriefing’ after childbirth: Is there a case for targeted intervention? Journal of Reproductive and Infant Psychology, 33(3), 308–320. https://doi.org/10.1080/02646838.2015.1009881

Watson, K., White, C., Hall, H., & Hewitt, A. (2021). Women’s experiences of birth trauma: A scoping review. Women and Birth: Journal of the Australian College of Midwives, 34(5), 417–424. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.wombi.2020.09.016

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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There’s no such thing as a perfect parent, right?! Yet there is a myriad of conflicting parenting advice that puts pressure on parents to be perfect, particularly mothers, and it is hard to know if we are getting it right. Becoming a mother has a funny way of getting us to reflect on how we were parented and at times gives us a way of reparenting ourselves in the process of parenting our children. Rebecca Cefai, a psychologist who has a special interest in perinatal mental health and parenting talks to me about responsive parenting, a parenting style that looks beyond the behaviour and focuses on addressing the emotional and physiological needs of your child. In this episode we talk about responding to your emotional and physical needs as a parent, unlearning the way you were parented, sociocultural messages and how they impact the way we parent and perceive behaviour, parenting differently according to your child’s temperament and individuality, parenting with boundaries, finding your parenting values and managing our own emotions while parenting. It's a biggie!

You can find Rebecca here: https://www.growinggentlypsychology.com.au/ 

Or on Instagram @growinggentlypsychology

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An honest conversation about the realities of mothering within a culture that does not centre mothers. Emma Gray chats to me about her experience entering motherhood, everything she ever wanted and the first time around really was a dream, to then add another child and the transition be much more difficult. Emma talks candidly about her experience with a colicky baby, resentment in relationships, matrescence, mothering alone most of the time and juggling work, kids, life and a charity. We also chat about Emma’s commitment to maternal mental health and the evolution of her new found charity The Nurtured Village Hampers that is forging in communities across Australia in an effort to bring back the village of support for new or struggling parents.

You can find out more about getting involved in the charity or nominating a family to receive a hamper here: https://www.thenurturedvillage.org/

Listen to Emma’s podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nurtured-village-podcast/id1522355752

Find Emma on Instagram: @emmagray @thenurturedvillagehampers

If you’d like to kindly donate to The Nurtured Village click here: https://www.thenurturedvillage.org/donate all donations over $2 are tax deductible

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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Stephanie Thompson, author of The Day My Vagina Broke – What They Don’t Tell You About Childbirth, had already endured cancer prior to becoming a mum and so entering motherhood, she had very big hopes for her future family, however her birth was not what she expected and changed her life forever. Stephanie suffered a traumatic birth injury that rocked her to the core and she openly talks about her injuries and the impact these injuries have on her life. She also shares her experience having a vaginal birth after Pelvic Organ Prolapse and her healing journey and what the future holds for her.

Find Stephanie @bravemumma on Instagram and facebook

Website: www.bravemumma.com

Buy her book ‘The Day My Vagina Broke – What They Don’t Tell You About Childbirth’: https://www.bravemumma.com/

Buy her Ebook ‘Tips and Tricks for Living with Pelvic Organ Prolapse’: https://www.bravemumma.com/

The Low Down Podcast with Steph Thompson: https://bravemumma.podbean.com/

My invisible disability short film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBgzhcdBKmI

If you or someone you know needs support for physical and/or psychological birth trauma please go to: www.birthtrauma.org.au

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Trigger warning for this episode 

Nikki so beautifully and with so much vulnerability shares her experience of her premature twin birth and the loss of both of her baby girls, Nayara & Nabela. Her birth was quite traumatic and Nikki shares the confusion, the shock, the grief, the pain, the cost, and the emotions around premature birth, infant death, NICU stay, and the separation from her babies. Nikki also mentions the cultural expectations when losing a loved one and how difficult that was for her situation. Nikki shares how grief and loss have impacted her life and the transformation she has experienced.

You can find Nikki on instagram @lunahealing_

If you have experienced infant loss and need support, please reach out to SANDS Australia: https://www.sands.org.au 

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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Ptylism (Ty-lis-im) and Hyperemesis Gravidarum are brutal conditions in pregnancy that we don’t often hear about or understand. Chante Campbell-Morrison shares her experience with these relentless conditions, her mistreatment, what life looked like, what happens to your mind and your body, her diagnosis with PTSD and anxiety, bonding with her baby and the long term impact on her life. Chante also talks about her non-linear healing journey and her mission to raise awareness and supporting mums struggling with Ptylism and HG.

You can find Chante on socials @LightfromaFeather

If you or someone you know is struggling with HG or Ptylism, please know you can contact www.hyperemesisaustralia.org.au for support.

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Birth plans tend to be controversial, insufficient and not respected, for the most part. So should we have one? What goes in it? Does your birth just all come down to luck? Well, let me introduce you to Catherine Bell who is an absolute go getter and completely hilarious! And she shares the revolution of birth mapping – not a birth plan but a map and it’s genius! The concepts are different and birth mapping helps you, the birther, understand the different pathways to birth including models of care, interventions and what’s attached to them, the importance of language and communication to and from careproviders, and navigating the system to support the birth you want. Keeping in mind, “there is no one way, there is only your way!” Who better to start this revolution than a mama cartographer! Catherine also shares details about her PhD of the birth map. This episode is a MUST listen if you are prepping for birth, we cover SO much in this episode! I highly recommend The Birth Map! It is the revolution we needed!

Get your birth map here - https://birthmap.life/

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Does gestation matter when it comes to loss? Who gets to decide this? Early pregnancy loss is full of mixed emotions, often not spoken about and an experience most women don’t feel validated in because of how we, as society, think about early miscarriage. Sarah chats to me about the excitement of her first pregnancy and her devastating experience losing her baby “sprinkle” a few weeks later. Sarah gets really honest and vulnerable in sharing her story and shares some details not everyone talks about - the physical and emotional, and speaks so passionately about how we treat women and families who have experienced this. Sarah also shares her experience in her second pregnancy and the anxiety that came with it, desperate to carry her baby to full term. Sarah got her healing birth with the support of a doula and shares this beautiful experience as well.   

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify.

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Have you ever felt like being a woman was a burden? Periods, pregnancy, birth, pelvic health, motherhood, menopause and so on, it’s not always pleasant. But maybe because the culture we live in doesn’t value the feminine, and so we internalise the messages our culture tells us, that being a woman is a burden, physically, mentally, socially, financially, in all aspects of life. Jane Hardwicke Collings, the wise woman herself, chats about the consequences of patriarchal culture, HERstory, rights of passage, birth, menstrual shame, menopause and how it is all connected to the way we feel about ourselves and how we can heal. Jane shares her wisdom on reclaiming our feminine power in a culture that diminishes it through reconnection with our sisterhood and within ourselves.

Jane’s website: https://janehardwickecollings.com/

HERstory ebook: https://janehardwickecollings.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/herstory_ebook.pdf

The School of Shamanic Womancraft – www.schoolofshamanicwomancraft.com  

Instagram: @janehardwickecollings

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Milli Hill is an absolute powerhouse in the birth world and her books are a testament to that. We chat about encouraging women to think about their births and creating a birth plan, power imbalances, obstetric violence, #metoo in birth and bodily autonomy. We chat further about feminism and the messages we as women receive about our bodies and the shame around women’s bodies and how it starts right from menstruation. Milli opens up about her experience being “cancelled” after questioning arising blanket terms like “birthing people” in maternity care and the importance of keeping sex based language in women’s health. Milli advocates for the importance to continue recognising sex based oppression, sex based language and the current healthcare gaps in maternity + women’s healthcare.

Milli Hill is the author of The Positive Birth Book, Give Birth Like a Feminist and My Period.

Website: https://www.millihill.co.uk/

Instagram + Twitter: @millihill

“I will not be silenced” https://www.millihill.co.uk/2021/07/10/i-will-not-be-silenced/

Oxford Feminist speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-kvR51ELLo

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You prepare for birth, you prepare your baby essentials, you have your baby and then you are sent on your way – for most people – and now what? We even saw during the covid pandemic that postpartum care was deemed “non essential”, which continued the narrative that postpartum, particularly the 4th trimester, wasn’t important and mothers were doing it on their own. In this episode, Leila Armour, a postpartum doula, shares her postpartum wisdom chatting all things tips, resting, depletion, setting intentions, normalising rest and reframing the way we think about postpartum. Leila talks about preparing for postpartum and the sacredness of the 4th trimester and the importance of understanding matrescence. Hiring a postpartum doula can be the difference in how you cope and heal after birth and should be normalised in postpartum care – even in a pandemic! Postpartum care is essential for every mother. We, as a society need to do better.

You can find out more about Leila and her book by following @villageformama on Instagram or visiting www.villageformama.com.

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Dr Rachel Reed is one of the leading researcher’s in childbirth who discusses physiological birth and how misunderstood women’s bodies are. She also talks about birth as a rite of passage, birth culture, interventions, herstory, policy vs evidence based practice, and midwifery practice, and the complications that arise juggling culture, policy, informed consent and evidenced based practice. Dr Reed talks about centering the woman in birth, individualising our births as there is no right way to birth and how birth is allowed to be different for everyone. Finally, we chat about reclaiming midwifery and childbirth and where that responsibility lies.   

Listen out for the cicada’s in the background (just so lovely and ironic chatting to Dr Reed and cicada’s are a part of our conversation 😝)

You can find Dr Rachel Reed on her website www.rachelreed.website

Blog www.midwifethinking.com

Instagram @midwifethinking

The Midwives Cauldren Podcast

If you are interested in her research you can buy her books/audible: Why Induction Matters by Dr Rachel Reed

Reclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage by Dr Rachel Reed

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Only 2% of Aussie mums birth at home and even less have a free birth. Home births tend to have a “dangerous” stigma attached to it and it appears home births are very misunderstood, despite plenty of evidence to show they are safe. Natasha shares her experiences in this episode as a rural mum of 4, home schooling her children, all while helping her husband run their dairy farm. Natasha also shares her birth experiences and has a lot to offer in the conversation of home births and free births. Natasha experienced some trauma and power struggles in hospital and decided after baby number 2 she wanted to try something different. So she prepared for her amazing home birth and then dropping midwifery care altogether for her last birth and freebirthed at home with hubby, her children and a doula.   

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Samantha Keen chats to me about her birth experiences; induced vaginal birth that went relatively smoothly and then her planned caesarean and recovery. Samantha shares her reasons for opting for a caesarean after a positive vaginal birth experience due to lack of education and support for her pelvic floor and the trouble that followed. Samantha’s story is important because it shows not only a positive experience in both birth scenarios, but also the consequences for a woman in a culture that cares about the baby and not necessarily the mother aka pelvic floor, recovery time, being cleared at 6 weeks, better support and postpartum care and ultimately how a woman births in future.  

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify

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A humorous conversation with Micah from Waco, Texas USA, a birth doula for over 20 years, mum of 6 and author of The Humour in Birth. Micah currently trains upcoming doulas and has supported over 200 births in her phenomenal career. Micah shares her experiences home birthing and her preterm birth with baby number 6 and shares her wisdom with us for what it’s like being a doula, mentor, author and mum of 6, now raising adult children. This is a great conversation with so much goodness and you will definitely learn something from her, as I did!

You can find Micah on instagram @wacodoula and @mydoulamicah or on her website https://wacodoula.wordpress.com/

You can also purchase her book here: https://www.amazon.com/Humor-Birth-Stories-Insight-Doula/dp/0578894955

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Sheree shares her experience navigating pelvic health conditions; endometriosis and later diagnosed Adenomyosis and how she copes with these conditions raising children, working and studying. Sheree also talks about the model of care she chose for birth and why she would choose differently next time. She also shares the impact covid had on her mental health, her postnatal anxiety and depression and how she was hesitant to go on medication but how medication has been the biggest help. Sheree’s motherhood journey has not been easy, her second baby had colic, selective IGA sufficiency, food aversions and eventually diagnosed “failure to thrive”. Sheree is a wonderful mother and person and has definitely had a hard time but she shares her light, her perspective and understanding throughout it all and I think everyone could gain something from her story.  

Find her @good_wholesomefood

Sheree’s birth stories here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBU9KSjjujl/ AND

https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/post/birthing-for-a-second-time-doesn-t-always-mean-birth-is-easier

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Kate Smith from @yourmumfriend shares her experiences entering motherhood, her struggles, her third birth which was a CAT1 emergency caesarean section to save her baby’s life and how she processed and coped with her intense birth experience. Kate also shares her experience with undiagnosed postnatal depression which manifested as rage and how life is going now with her 3 boys aged 6, 4 & 2 and the beautiful gift of hindsight and loving our postpartum bodies. This conversation was just like chatting to a friend and there is lots of laughter but we also get serious about certain topics and Kate has such a refreshing perspective and is such a pleasure to know!

You can find Kate @yourmumfriend

If you are seeking support for perinatal depression please take the steps to reach out to organisations like panda.org.au or postpartum.net

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Laura from @unwindpilates chats to me about the physical and mental benefits of pilates for pre and postnatal women and why its important to listen to your body, slow down and find the right kind of movement for you when carrying a baby or recovering from birth. We chat about pelvic floor and Women’s Health Physio’s and how local pilates instructors can work together with them to help women be educated, rehabilitate and restore their bodies. We also chat about when returning to exercise, consider pilates before heading into higher intensity exercise to set up a stable and strong foundation.

You can find Laura @unwindpilates on Instagram or through her website -  unwindpilatesstudio.com.au

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Once upon a time, women did not fear birth, and yet today, fear in birth is common and problematic. Rebecca Black, a psychologist, mother, hypnobirth practitioner and founder of The Mindful Birth Movement chats to me about the role of fear in birth, where it comes from, how to eliminate it and how hypnobirthing can help you unpack, process and release it. She talks about how important it is to work through past traumas, dive into your subconscious and prepare your mind to help you work through birth. Bec shares tips in preparing for birth to have a positive experience and how complex psychological birth trauma is.

You can find more information on The Mindful Birth Movement here:

@themindfulbirthmovement

Themindfulbirthmovement.com.au

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We chat to Imajyn Walker who was categorised as low risk in pregnancy to then deliver her baby who got ‘stuck’ for a significant amount of time resulting in baby Asher’s death in the NICU. Immi is very vocal about shoulder dystocia and how a woman’s intuition should always be considered in birth decisions and outcomes and knowing your rights as it has completely flipped her world upside down. How do you even begin to cope with such a traumatic birth and the loss of your baby?! Immi talks about her grief and what others should know about infant death and the impacts it has had in her life. She offers some words of wisdom to family and friends who don’t know what to do when a loved one loses their baby and why shoulder dystocia needs more attention, awareness and action in pregnancy and birth.

This episode contains a trigger warning.

You can find Immi via Instagram @immi_walker_

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Birth doulas can be the difference in positive birth experiences and outcomes, yet, it is rare for birthing women to have a doula support her. We even have the research to back up the need for a doula in our current maternity system, so why aren’t we using them!? A lot of people still remain unaware of the role a doula has in birth and the benefits. So we chat to Amelia, a birth doula who breaks down the incredible birth support a doula can provide, advocating for yourself, the importance of your own intuition and power, birth education and preparation, gaps in maternal care and support and how a doula can fill those gaps, informed consent, tips for having a positive birth, the difference between a midwife and a doula and how to find the right doula for you. Doulas are one of the most important birth workers and they need to become the norm! The WHO even state that every birthing person should have a doula. There is so much in this episode and for every mum to be, this is a must listen! Afterall, your birth is one of the most profound and transformative moments in your life. See the show notes to find out how to access a doula in Australia.

You can find Amelia via Instagram @birthing_you_ or via her website www.birthingyou.com.au

Find a doula:

https://www.australiandoulacollege.com.au/doulas/categories/birth-postnatal-doula

Student doula packages are available if you would like a doula but funds are limited:

https://www.australiandoulacollege.com.au/student-doulas

References:

https://raisingchildren.net.au/guides/a-z-health-reference/doula

https://www.pregnancyparenting.org.au/birth/what-doula-0

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Nutrient depletion has a huge impact on our wellbeing throughout pregnancy and postpartum but it is something that often is overlooked in maternal health. We chat to Lucy Fitzgibbons a womens health naturopath about the impacts pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding can have on your body and ultimately your health and why its important to put more focus into our internal health over our external looks. She gives great insight into how we can best support ourselves in our most vulnerable state and how important it is to nurture the mother as much as the baby, not to mention the detrimental affects long term depletion can have.

Links:

@lucyfitz.naturopath

https://www.lucyfitzgibbons.com/

The Postnatal Depletion Cure by Dr Oscar Serrallach

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Alison Milner chats to us about her experience after a traumatic birth and navigating life with a prolapse and the complications she endured finding the right treatment and management and how that affected her mental health. Alison shares the early red flags of pelvic floor issues after her first baby and frustrations about why women are left in the dark about pelvic health, symptoms and risks.

If you are interested in reading Alison's story you can read it on the following links:

Instragram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNj6eGUHMSf/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link 

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/The-Power-of-Birth-105868734899374/?ref=page_internal

Website:

https://www.thepowerofbirth.net/share-your-story/categories/birth-stories 

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What is it about the breath? We chat to Nicola Laye about how breathwork can benefit us in our physiological functioning, birth and mental wellbeing. Nicola shares her secrets to living a fulfilled and happy life and using the breath to empower our body and mind, ultimately a skill that can change your life! We even finish off with a few minutes of breathing!

Links: 

@nicolalaye

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We chat to Caitlin Kay-Smith found of non for profit organization Hyperemesis Gravidarium Australia about all things HG and why ginger is not the answer. HG is not morning sickness but is often mistaken for it and should be treated seriously as the complications and consequences go well beyond pregnancy. We talk about why HG has taken so long to be recognized, trauma, malnutrition, treatment, support and what life looks like beyond. HG needs our attention so it does not continue to go undiagnosed and women receive the appropriate treatment they deserve.   

Links:

https://www.hyperemesisaustralia.org.au/ 

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We continue our chat about pelvic health but in this chat we talk specifically about postpartum changes in our bodies and what this means for a woman. We talk about all things diastasis recti, hemorrhoids, cesarean scar, prolapse, pessaries, postnatal checks with a women’s health physio, the language we use around our bodies and dysfunction, menopause, physios in maternity wards in our hospitals and hopes for the future of women’s health.

Claire is based on the Gold Coast at The living Well Studio in Burleigh and Coast Colorectal at John Flynn Hospital

Links:

@powerpelvisphysio

https://www.claireryanphysio.com/

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Your pelvic floor is one of the most important muscles in your body that we really need to be talking about and its not just about doing pelvic floor exercises. When it comes to pelvic health generally women say “I wish someone told me” and this shows that knowledge is power - know the signs and symptoms, know the risks, know your body! The statistics for pelvic floor dysfunction are shocking and awareness of pelvic health demands your attention! We chat to a pelvic health physiotherapist about everything you need to know about your pelvic floor whether you have had a baby or not. Specifically in this episode we chat about what a women’s health physiotherapist is, pelvic floor, signs and symptoms somethings not right, risk factors for dysfunction, postnatal exercise and how being informed of pelvic health is empowering as prevention is better than cure.

Claire is based on the Gold Coast at The living Well Studio in Burleigh and Coast Colorectal at John Flynn Hospital

Links: 

@powerpelvisphysio

https://www.claireryanphysio.com/ 

Music is called "Flowers" by Lemujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify

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Trigger warning: miscarriage. Sarah Pratt bravely shares her story entering motherhood and the challenges after birth. She also talks about the confusing, emotional rollercoaster with unexplained infertility when trying for more children after her first born and her experiences with multiple miscarriages. Sarah shares about how she was met with a lack of support and left invalidated and dismissed because of how common first trimester miscarriage is, despite her having so many. Sarah is passionate about changing how we normalize first trimester miscarriage and the need for more sensitivity around the topic and support for women struggling.  

Music is called "Flowers" by Lemujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify

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It can be hard to know what kind of exercise and movement that is right for you when you are pregnant and then again after you have a baby. If you feel good, is that enough to tell you its ok to return to play a team sport or go for a run or lift weights? Is 6 weeks really enough time for recovery and should this blanket statement apply to everyone? We chat to Sarah Male aka The Mummy Trainer about returning to exercise and how the fitness industry needs to start taking pre and postnatal women’s health more seriously and it not be just about losing the baby weight. For 30% off your initial TMT Online sign up and resistance bands use our code POWEROFBIRTH

Links:

@themummytrainer

https://themummytrainer.com/

https://www.themummytraineracademy.com/ 

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We are joined by the lovely Kaitlyn Bywater who has just had her third baby boy via planned cesarean section. We chat to Kaitlyn about her motherhood journey, the struggles with HG, birth trauma, rage and living rurally without her support network. She also talks of her prolapse after her second born and her healing birth after trauma. Kaitlyn often shares her realities of motherhood online and continues to empower other mothers in their experiences and is well worth knowing!

Links:

@the_rehab_mama

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When you become a mother often the transition is difficult and full of confronting changes. We chat to Nikki McCahon about the transition a woman experiences after becoming a mother and how truly deep this transformation is. Struggles with identity, mourning your old life, grieving your experiences, feeling disorientated, reevaluating friendships and relationships and ultimately your personal growth. How do you have a baby and ever be the same?! There is so much confusion and challenges in motherhood and Nikki talks to us about supporting ourselves in this vulnerable time.

Links:

@dearmamaproject

https://www.dearmamaproject.com/

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Host Amber-lee and producer Rigel introduce ourselves and give some context to the podcast and what we think is important to recognise and talk about regarding women's health and wellbeing and helping to bridge the gap. We want everyone to feel empowered, supported, validated and invite you to join the conversation to reduce stigma, shame and guilt on topics that need to be openly spoken about. 

Links:

@thepowerofbirth & @b.d.esigns

Music is called "Flowers" by Limujii and can be found on YouTube, SoundCloud and Spotify