Stutterology: Recent Episodes
Jaymie Horak
So your child is stuttering — now what? Navigating stuttering, hosted by a person who stutters (PWS).
New episodes released weekly.
What are the challenges and importance of implementing neurodiversity affirming therapy in school-based settings? Join host Ezra and guest Matt Maxion, a speech therapist who stutters, as they discuss the shift from fluency-focused goals to empowering individuals who stutter to communicate confidently. The two address misconceptions, share personal experiences, and advocate for a more inclusive therapy approach… and Matt shares his answer to “What place do the infamous fluency shaping and stuttering modification ‘techniques’ have in affirming speech therapy”
Guest Bio
Matt Maxion is a CCC-SLP and stutterer who aims to shift our perspective for stuttering therapy closer to neurodiversity affirming therapy, prioritizing a build in communication confidence and participation in daily activities. Matt’s commitment lies in fostering positive, practical change rather than adhering to conventional metrics of fluency.
Matt and Ezra will both be speaking at the National Stuttering Association’s annual conference this July: https://westutter.org/conference/speakers/
FOOTNOTES
To learn more about how the neurodivergent-affirming speech therapy applies to stuttering:
- Stuttering Intervention Without a Focus on Fluency. ASHA Voices. Podcast. Host J. D. Gray. Guest C. Constantino. https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/2022-0707-podcast-constantino-stuttering-neurodiversity
- Watson, L. (2022). Beyond Fluency: Anti-Ableism and Stuttering. The Informed SLP. Blogpost. https://www.theinformedslp.com/review/beyond-fluency-anti-ableism-and-stuttering
- Constantino, C. D. “What Can Stutterers Learn from the Neurodiversity Movement?.” Seminars in speech and language vol. 39,4 (2018): 382-396. doi:10.1055/s-0038-1667166
- Gerlach-Houck, H. & Constantino, C. D. (2022). Interrupting ableism in stuttering therapy and research: Practical Suggestions. Perspectives of the ASHA Special Interest Groups. https://doi.org/10.1044/2021_PERSP-21-00109
- Reeves, N. A., Flynn, T. W., & Schuff, R. Z. (2023). Ableism to empowerment: Navigating school structures when working with students who stutter. Language, Speech, and Hearing Services in Schools, 54(1),8-26. https://doi.org/10.1044/2022_LSHSS-22-00026
- Arenas, R. (2022). Integrating anti-ableism and neurodiversity ideas into EBP for people who stutter. Powerpoint. https://shs.unm.edu/assets/documents/arenas--nmsha-2022.pdf
For related episodes of the pod, check out these 2023 episodes:
Shaping Speech Therapy with Steff Lebsack, CCC-SLP: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4g7ZfdI5udJHTHG13Itsql?si=33c02a9ed8574603
Widening the Stuttering Therapy Lens with Nina Reeves, CCC-SLP, BCS-FD: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nN8YpO4XBclHlHXDCHwxF?si=84695339e9fa4daa
For additional speech therapy resources on how to apply these, check out Martha Speech on Teachers Pay Teachers, and Stuttering Therapy Resources
Martha Speech: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Store/Martha-Speech
STR: https://stutteringtherapyresources.com/pages/free-resources
Nicole's Stutter Affirming Binder: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Store/Miss-Nicole-Stuttering-Support
Intro music is an edited excerpt of: "The Crawl of Life" jaspertine ccmixter.org, 4.0 CC BY license
Post-production editing by DJ Liam, instagram @liam.m4a
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What happens when you go from never talking about your stutter to being one of the leading voices educating people on acceptance in the span of just a few short years? Is it possible to lose a part of your voice in the process of finding your voice?
Ezra sits down with James Hayden, author of Dear World, I Stutter, and huge Survivor fan. After meeting other people who stutter for the first time in October 2015, he had published his book in December 2017. The book was more popular than James predicted, and before long, "James: The Brand" worked itself into his persona. James discusses that process, and how the disconnect he felt from "The Brand" led to burnout, and now a new season for his life.
You can find his book and more information at https://linktr.ee/jhayden93
Intro music is an edited excerpt of:"The Crawl of Life" jaspertineccmixter.org, 4.0 CC BY license
Production editing by DJ Liam, instagram @liam.m4a
Follow Stutterology on Instagram or find more information at https://linktr.ee/stutterology
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The definition of stuttering has changed constantly over the years - and the connotations of the definition feel different between people who stutter and those who don't. So what does it actually mean to stutter? Is graduate school always giving up and coming speech therapists an accurate depiction?
Host Ezra Horak, stutterer, and guest Nicole Kulmaczewski, CCC-SLP, push back against traditional medical definitions (like the one found on mayoclinic), and then end up pushing back against one another (but it's OK, they forgive each other). Aiming to approach the implications various definitions may have, the two advocate for inclusivity and a deeper comprehension of the stuttering experience.
GUEST
Nicole Kulmaczewski, CCC-SLP is the Deputy Director of MySpeech (https://myspeechhub.org) and a speech therapist in New York. Nicole is passionate about advocacy and spreading stuttering awareness through social media posts, continuing education, and day to day life. Her email is nkslp23@gmail.com
FOOTNOTES/REFERENCES:
- Tichenor, S. E., & Yaruss, J. S. (2019). Stuttering as Defined by Adults Who Stutter. Journal of speech, language, and hearing research : JSLHR, 62(12), 4356–4369. https://doi.org/10.1044/2019_JSLHR-19-00137
- MayoClinic's (shameful) definition of stuttering - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/stuttering/symptoms-causes/syc-20353572
- ASHA's definition of stuttering - https://www.asha.org/stuttering/
- Marc Winski's tiktok referenced in this episode: https://www.tiktok.com/@marcwinski/video/7317281688491478315
- Find more about Ryan Cowley at https://ryanacowley.com/ and book him for your classroom, listen to his podcast, and/or get a copy of his book
- Stuttering Iceberg - podcast episode from 2022 - https://open.spotify.com/episode/5y1ZuJHZBuctScFY9Fx9gJ?si=a6e2db2c561d467f
Further Reading:
- Yaruss, J. S., & Quesal, R. W. (2004). Stuttering and the International Classification of Functioning, Disability, and Health: an update. Journal of communication disorders, 37(1), 35–52. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0021-9924(03)00052-2
- Tichenor, S. E., Herring, C., & Yaruss, J. S. (2022). Understanding the Speaker's Experience of Stuttering Can Improve Stuttering Therapy. Topics in language disorders, 42(1), 57–75. https://doi.org/10.1097/tld.0000000000000272
- Advice to Those Who Stutter, chapter 6 written by Joseph Sheehan: https://www.stutteringhelp.org/message-stutterer
Intro music is an edited excerpt of:"The Crawl of Life" jaspertineccmixter.org, 4.0 CC BY license
Post-production edits by DJ Liiam, instagram @liam.m4a
Follow Stutterology on Instagram or find more information at https://linktr.ee/stutterology
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Ezra interviews Lara Gabrielle about Marion Davies, an actress who was one of the few to make the transition from silent films to "talkies"... oh, and she stuttered.
Marion Davies (1897-1961), an American actress, screenwriter, producer, and philanthropist was a wonder that many people were captured by. This is impressive by any feat, but even moreso as a woman born in the 1890s. So why don't we know more about her? And what impact did stuttering have on Davies's life?
Lara Gabrielle knew that the life of Marion Davies was a story someone needed to tell. She was captured by Davies at a young age, and her research on Davies took her down many paths - one of those being the world of stuttering. Although Davies spoke privately about her stutter, more pieces fell into place the more Gabrielle connected with the stuttering community.
The impact of stuttering during this time often isn't known, and this is a beautiful window into what it meant not just to be a woman who stuttered at a time when women had less agency over their lives, but one of laughter, love, and heartbreak.
Guest: Lara Gabrielle is a biographer and researcher, whose work on Marion Davies has been featured in Alta, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Missouri Review, The Wall Street Journal, and on PBS’s American Experience. Gabrielle has spoken at film festivals and retrospectives worldwide, and is acknowledged as the leading authority on Davies’s life and legacy, serving as a consultant on Marion Davies for books, dissertations, and film projects. Gabrielle’s biography, Captain of Her Soul: The Life of Marion Davies, has been included on many top book lists for 2022, and was shortlisted for the 2023 Northern California Book Award.
Learn more at https://mariondaviesbook.com/
Follow Lara on Instagram and Twitter at @backlotsfilm
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mariondaviesbook/
Intro music is an edited excerpt of:"The Crawl of Life" jaspertineAvailable on ccmixter.org, 4.0 CC BY license
Post-production edits by DJ Liiam, instagram @liam.m4a
Follow Stutterology on Instagram or find more information at https://linktr.ee/stutterology
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The journalist response to former President Donald Trump mocking the disability of President Joe Biden is disheartening. This isn't just an exhaustion of Trump - this is a reflection of a society that doesn't think mocking a stutter is "that bad".
The only outcry has come from people who stutter. The only news articles out as of this moment are about Biden "didn't stutter" on the word Trump mocked him for - as if that's the point?! Listen to stuttering voices and do better when you cover the way a former president mocks my disability.
You can contact us at info [at] stutterology.com or on instagram @stutterology.
FOOTNOTES:
- Video shared by TikTok star Marc Winski - https://www.tiktok.com/@marcwinski/video/7321112541873196334
News articles as of this podcast:
A. The New York Times
"He also mocked Mr. Biden’s delivery, suggesting he was stuttering throughout his speech when he was not. Mr. Biden is the first modern president to have a stutter, which he has dealt with since childhood."
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/05/us/presidential-primary-iowa-caucus
B. Washington Post
"The remark was not true; Biden said the word “democracy” 29 times in his speech, never stuttering over it."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/06/trump-biden-stutter/
C. MSNBC
"In his Iowa speech Friday, Trump also mocked President Joe Biden for the speech he delivered earlier in the day portraying Trump as a threat to democracy.
“Did you see him? He was stuttering through the whole thing,” Trump said. Then he mimicked a person with a stutter."
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/trump-iowa-school-shooting-get-over-it-rcna132642
D. Newsweek (1 sentence in the article at the end, an afterthought)
"He branded Biden's campaign launch speech as fear-mongering and mocked Biden's stuttering."
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-speech-attacking-donald-trump-1858392
E. The Hill
"...Trump said, mocking Biden’s delivery of his speech. Biden has spoken publicly about how he overcame a stutter as a child."
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4392263-trump-accuses-biden-fearmongering-jan-6-speech/
F. The Daily Mail
PS: I know The Daily Mail is awful. I address that in the episode. I still just... cannot get over the language used in it.
"Former President Donald Trump slapped back at President Joe Biden during a rally in Iowa late Friday afternoon mocking the president for 'stuttering' through a speech in which he warned Americans about the dangers of a second Trump term."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12932179/Trump-says-Biden-stuttered-January-6-speech.html
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Second part of a 2-part episode, Ezra is joined again by guests Nicole (CCC-SLP) and Jenny (PWS) to wrap up their discussion of Wendell Johnson and Mary Tudor's "Monster Study" of 1939, and how it relates to 2023 speech therapy practices. Is today's speech therapy for stuttering doing what this "monstrous" study did... with a pretty bow on it? The three discuss comments from Mary Tudor in 1939, and then examples from a 2019 'fluency bank' - 80 years later.Guests:Nicole Kulmaczewski - CCC-SLP and Deputy Director of MySpeechAppJenny McGuire - person who stutters and Executive Director of MySpeechAppFOOTNOTES:1. Tudor, M. (1939). An experimental study of the effect of evaluative labeling of speech fluency (Master of Arts (MA), University of Iowa; W. Johnson & C. E. Obermann, Eds.). University of Iowa. Retrieved from https://iro.uiowa.edu/esploro/outputs/graduate/An-experimental-study-of-the-effect/9983777385602771/filesAndLinks?index=02. Williams, Dave. 1999. “Wendell Johnson and Charles van Riper.” Web.mnsu.edu. Minnesota State University. 1999. https://web.mnsu.edu/comdis/kuster/pioneers/davewilliams.html3. Sies, L. F. (1968). Wendell Johnson — An Appreciation. ETC: A Review of General Semantics, 25(3), 263–269. Jstor. Retrieved from https://www.jstor.org/stable/425762354. Interview: Jim Dyer discusses a 1930s study on stuttering. (2001, June 11). All Things Considered. https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A166043255/BIC?u=multnomah_main&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=cc8e36975. Wendell Andrew Leroy Johnson. (1981). In Dictionary of American Biography. Charles Scribner's Sons. https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/BT2310010232/BIC?u=multnomah_main&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=63540cf26. Qatar, S, (Host). (2022, Oct 8). Claypole, J (Guest). Unethical experiments: the Monster Study. In All In The Mind. Leake, J (Producer). https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/allinthemind/all-in-the-mind-unethical-experiments-monster-study/140734147. Thompson, S (Host). (2022, Sep 15). 129.2 - The Monster Study. In American English Podcast. https://americanenglishpodcast.com/129-2-the-monster-study/Thanks for listening! To support Stutterology, sign up on Patreon.Be sure to follow us on Instagram at @Stutterology--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/stutterology/messageSupport this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/stutterology/support
In this two-part special of "Stutterology," we take a deep dive into the infamous unpublished 1939 experiment at Univesity of Iowa by Wendell Johnson and his graduate student, Mary Tudor, which has been dubbed the "Monster Study."
Join our host Ezra, a person who stutters, and two key guests, including a Speech Language Pathologist as we unravel never-before-discussed insights into the backstory of Wendell Johnson, how it influenced this study, and how it relates to modern-day speech therapy for stutterers.
There is a lot to unpack and explore in this episode, including:
- Wendell Johnson being a person who stutters
- The influence of general semantics (not to be confused with semantics) on Johnson's own relationship with his stuttering.
- Nicole's summary of the over 200-page study
- The issue of consent with orphans in psychology study
- The absolute confusing inconsistency of what was said to the various orphans
- Stuttering VS 'speech interruptions' in children
Part 2 comes out in 1 week (Nov 7th), where we discuss the results of the study, and how we see this in modern day speech therapy for children who stutter (YIKES).
Guests:
Nicole Kulmaczewski - CCC-SLP and Deputy Director of MySpeechApp
Jenny McGuire - person who stutters and Executive Director,
FOOTNOTES:
-
Tudor, M. (1939). An experimental study of the effect of evaluative labeling of speech fluency (Master of Arts (MA), University of Iowa; W. Johnson & C. E. Obermann, Eds.). University of Iowa. Retrieved from https://iro.uiowa.edu/esploro/outputs/graduate/An-experimental-study-of-the-effect/9983777385602771/filesAndLinks?index=0
-
Williams, Dave. 1999. “Wendell Johnson and Charles van Riper.” Web.mnsu.edu. Minnesota State University. 1999. https://web.mnsu.edu/comdis/kuster/pioneers/davewilliams.html
-
Sies, L. F. (1968). Wendell Johnson — An Appreciation. ETC: A Review of General Semantics, 25(3), 263–269. Jstor. Retrieved from https://www.jstor.org/stable/42576235
-
Interview: Jim Dyer discusses a 1930s study on stuttering. (2001, June 11). All Things Considered. https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A166043255/BIC?u=multnomah_main&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=cc8e3697
-
Wendell Andrew Leroy Johnson. (1981). In Dictionary of American Biography. Charles Scribner's Sons. https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/BT2310010232/BIC?u=multnomah_main&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=63540cf2
-
Qatar, S, (Host). (2022, Oct 8). Claypole, J (Guest). Unethical experiments: the Monster Study. In All In The Mind. Leake, J (Producer). https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/allinthemind/all-in-the-mind-unethical-experiments-monster-study/14073414
-
Thompson, S (Host). (2022, Sep 15). 129.2 - The Monster Study. In American English Podcast. https://americanenglishpodcast.com/129-2-the-monster-study/
Thanks for listening! To support Stutterology, sign up on Patreon.
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Guest Nina Reeves shares her insights and experiences working with children who stutter and offers valuable advice for parents seeking to support their child's communication journey. Her and our host discuss the importance of creating a safe and accepting environment, understanding the child's perspective, and the need to address thoughts and feelings about stuttering. Together, they explore the concept of "easier communication" and emphasize the value of open discussions surrounding stuttering.About GuestNina Reeves, MS, CCC-SLP, BCS-FD, F-ASHA, is the co-founder and Vice President of "Stuttering Therapy Resources". She is the author of several books such as Early Childhood Stuttering Therapy: A Practical Guide, and she is a longtime speech pathologist. She was elected as an ASHA fellow in 2021, and she has received numerous different awards during her time as a speech pathologist.You can learn more about STR here: https://stutteringtherapyresources.com**Please note that this episode is intended as educational content and not as a substitute for professional advice. If you have concerns about your individual child’s unique needs and speech, it is recommended to seek guidance from a licensed speech-language pathologist.
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Steff Lebsack (she/her), CCC-SLP based in Colorado and licensed in several states, dives into the challenges that can pop up in traditional speech therapy, especially in school settings. The conversation is diverse - Ezra (Jaymie) and Steff discuss challenging traditional speech therapy approaches, the use of speaking strategies when working with kids who stutter, the need for mentorship and support for speech-language pathologists, the wonders of the stuttering community, and Steff’s use of acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT) in the speech therapy setting. Steff also shares heartwarming stories of working with children who stutter, highlighting the importance of respecting their agency and involving them in therapy decisions.Steff Lebsack is a speech pathologist based in Colorado. She has her own private practice and is a professor. Steff has an extensive background in medical speech pathology, having worked in hospitals for over 12 years. She has a particular passion for treating individuals with stuttering and communication differences in acute care and ICU settings. This has led her to develop a deep interest in bioethics and medical autonomy. Steff aspires to pursue a doctorate in public health and bioethics after completing her PhD program. Outside of work, Steff coaches the girls' cross country team with her high school teacher and coach husband. They have two young children and enjoy the busy and active lifestyle that comes with their family dynamic. You can learn more about her services at https://www.lebsackspeechtherapy.com/ Other resources mentioned in this episode: MySpeech - https://myspeechapp.org/Franky Banky - https://www.frankybanky.com/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/stutterology/messageSupport this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/stutterology/support
It's been 1 year since my last episode - and Stutterology has been a work in progress. This is a short bridge episode where I explain what happened, what has been going on for the last year, and what to look forward to.
YES, I still have those 2 SLP episode interviews that I am SO EXCITED to share.
YES, I am still alive.
YES, I still care passionately about educating the world about stuttering.
IT HAS SHOWN that I have the executive function skills of a peanut.
I want perfect content to give you. I don't want to make mistakes and have poor information. But the reality is that this message is strong, and good, and important.
In April 2023, I dived back into Stutterology- but this time, on creating short visual content on instagram. It's been incredible. The response has been engaging and fascinating. And as I inch closer to 1,000 followers, the history of Stutterology - which started with this podcast - has weighed on me. These episodes are so important to me.
While you wait, here are the plugs in the episode:
1) My article with Stamma, "The Fluency Myth of 'Proper' Communication" - https://stamma.org/your-voice/fluency-myth-proper-communication
2) Spero Stuttering (resource website) - https://www.sperostuttering.org and their "Ally of Stuttering" Seal
3) Proud Stutter (podcast) - https://www.proudstutter.com - an incredible and insightful woman who stutters. Who is also very good at making a podcast. Try out the episode "Stuttering with Confidence"
4) And of course my instagram - https://www.instagram.com/stutterology/
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The full picture of stuttering: what is the "stuttering iceberg" and what makes a person who stutters... someone who stutters? We go beyond the obvious here and talk about Joseph Sheehan's take, Courtney Margulis (Luckman)'s example of how this plays out with SLPs, my own depressing blog post from 2009, Joe Biden's viral tiktok audio, and Nina G's reframing of the iceberg.
Advice to Those Who Stutter, chapter 6 written by Joseph Sheehan: https://www.stutteringhelp.org/message-stutterer
Courtney Margulis (formerly Luckman)'s blog post, "Treating 5% of the Disorder": http://courtingcourage.blogspot.com/2016/08/treating-5-of-disorder.html
Nina G, stuttering comedian, author, and disability advocate: https://www.ninagcomedian.com
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The only thing you can actually know about people who stutter is that we stutter. The personality types and interests of PWS very as much as any other group of people. And while we may know that mentally, media representation only shows stuttering as a nervous habit. Many have been told to “play to their strengths” with the assumption being that public speaking, stage presence, and effective communication are not strengths nor interests.
For many of us, like me, love to talk; the idea that I could not pursue a particular career path because of my speech was more than wrong.I believe the most important thing to establish is getting on the same page with how we think and feel about stuttering in. There are a lot of wonderful checklists about how to talk to people who stutter, but I have yet to find one that is how to feel about people who stutter. Feelings and checklists don’t work well together though, so this episode is the next best thing.
Book on Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach: https://www.tarabrach.com/books/radical-acceptance/
CBT Psychology's Article/Video on Radical Acceptance: https://cbtpsychology.com/radical-acceptance/
YouTube Video on Radical Acceptance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVwIVwGOnpo
For any questions or comments, please send me a message on instagram: @stutterology.
Disclaimer: I am not a Speech Language Pathologist or a researcher. I do, however, know many of them. And my idea to create this podcast was further encouraged by those very voices.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/stutterology/message
So your child is stuttering - now what? Maybe you've been having people tell you about ways to make stuttering disappear, or you're just so overwhelmed by information overload that you don't know where to begin. Maybe you have read every book or article you can get your hands on, but you're still looking for something... else. What if the goal of speech therapy wasn't about making a stutter go away? What will success look like for your child/you/your loved one? Will they be OK, even if their stuttering never disappears?
Let's start here - my name is Jaymie, and I've been stuttering since I was 6 years old. I like to think this makes me an expert in speaking with a stutter. 25 years has got to count for something, right? This is episode one of Stutterology - a podcast about navigating stuttering. Today you learn a bit about me, your host, and a glimpse of what I'm excited to be sharing with you. We discuss terms we'll be using, and some basic information about stuttering. And most importantly for this episode: why you should listen to me. I made this episode quick and concise, because we have a lot of ground to cover.
For any questions or comments, please send me a message on instagram: @stutterology.
Disclaimer: I am not a Speech Language Pathologist or a researcher. I do, however, know many of them. And my idea to create this podcast was further encouraged by those very voices.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/stutterology/message