The PERColator Podcast: Recent Episodes
Washington State Public Employment Relations Commission
The PERColator podcast, hosted by the Washington State Public Employment Relations Commission, is a space where negotiation theory meets practice. The podcast will explore different themes related to collective bargaining and works to broaden the tools and resources the parties can use in that process to resolve conflicts and enhance labor-management relationships.
A review of how to conduct a risk assessment in your grievance or ULP settlement negotiations.
Chris and Loyd discuss managing emotions in collective bargaining and share insights from Ethan Kross' Shift: Managing Your Emotions- So They Don't Manage You.
References:
Ethan Kross' Shift: Managing Your Emotions- So They Don't Manage You
Get to know Otto Klein, a partner and founder of Summit Law Group, and a giant in public sector labor relations. Guest co-host Jamie Siegel, a mediator and hearing examiner at PERC, also joins Matt and Otto as they discuss valuable insights, tips, and stories.
No might be the scariest word in negotiations where the goal is to reach an agreement where both sides can say yes. But could there be an upside to the use of No in bargaining? Join Chris and Matt as they talk about ways that a nuanced use of No can be a helpful tool in the negotiations process.
References:
- Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss
- Start With No, Jim Camp
- Three Kinds of No, James Sebenius
The virtues of active listening have long been touted for its benefit in relationship building and understanding. But modern research has examined how active listening can lead to depolarization and stronger working environments, which we explore on this episode.
References:
- Listening to Understand: The Role of High-Quality Listening on Speakers’ Attitude Depolarization During Disagreements (various authors).
- Communicating for Workplace Connection: A Longitudinal Study of the Outcomes of Listening Training on Teachers’ Autonomy, Psychological Safety, and Relational Climate (various authors)
Learn how interest arbitrators decided on issues as wages in times of high CPIs, recruitment and retention in tight labor markets, drug testing in light of legalized cannabis, and scheduling challenges. What trends that might impact today's bargaining, particularly for those with interest arbitration available to them when they reach impasse.
References:
Interest Arbitration Report
Loyd interviews former PERC Executive Director Cathy Callahan
References:
North Thurston Educational Foundation
In a Landscape
Emily Whitney and Dario de la Rosa from PERC and Nicole Thibodeau from the Alaska Labor Relations Agency join us for a discussion of representation processes at PERC and ALRA and why they are important to labor negotiators.
References:
Washington State PERC
Alaska Labor Relations Association
Chris and Loyd discuss the life and work of Daniel Kahneman who recently passed away.
References:
Daniel Kahneman, Who Plumbed the Psychology of Economics, NYT (nytimes.com)
Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman | Goodreads
Mediator, author, and mental-health advocate Dan Berstein discusses various approaches and systems for ending discriminatory practices against individuals with mental health conditions.
AVOIDANCE RESOURCES
- Mental Health and Conflicts: A Handbook for Empowerment
- Visit www.mhmediate.com/avoidance with password: "Avoid" to access a replay of the 2023 ACR-GNY conference program on "Overcoming Avoidance of Diversity Tools in Dispute Resolution", and a copy of the 2023 AALS WIP Conference paper draft "Overcoming Avoidance: A Model for Moving Forward."
MENTAL HEALTH STIGMA RESOURCES
- Speak Up: Conflict Resolution Skills for Self-Advocacy program for the National Alliance on Mental Illness at www.mhsafe.org/about and resources for responding to everyday discrimination at www.mhsafe.org/discrimination
- Vetting Dispute Resolution Guidance resources at www.mhsafe.org/drguidance
- Preventing Mental Illness Discrimination in Dispute Resolution resources at www.mhsafe.org/preventing
- You can also see some recent updates at the Mediate.com article Ending Mental Illness Discrimination in Dispute Resolution (2023 Updates) at https://mediate.com/ending-m
This episode examines the six principles of persuasion drawn from the book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, and considers how these principles apply to the world of collective bargaining.
Reference:
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Robert Cialdini
Alice Phillips shares advice, stories, and tips that she’s learned over her decades long career as a union leader. Alice will be speaking at the NW LERA Conference on March 28, Register using the link below.
NW LERA Conference Registration
Your co-hosts of The PERColator Podcast sit down for a book club discussion of Leonard Riskin's recent book, Managing Conflict Mindfully.
References:
- Managing Conflict Mindfully, Leonard Riskin
After a brief hiatus, we are excited to be back with a new book club episode where Emily, Chris and Loyd share out some negotiations-related books they’ve read recently.
References:
- Flourish, Martin E.P. Seligman
- Think Again, Adam Grant
- Managing Conflict Mindfully, Leonard Riskin
Chris and Loyd talk about game theory and trust in negotiations.
References:
- The Evolution of Cooperation- Robert Axelrod
- Human Motivation and Social Cooperation, Ferh & Gintis
Get to know Marv Schurke who shares stories, tips, and advice from his experiences as PERC's first executive director, as a private arbitrator, at the Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission, and as a management representative in the private sector prior to being an impartial in the field.
Advocates' Day at the Association of Labor Relations Agencies annual conference takes place July 17 in Vancouver, B.C. In this episode, we talk about some agenda highlights that might be of interest to PERColator Podcast listeners (and Emily puts out a book club challenge!).
References:
ALRA Conference Registration
https://alra.org/registration/
Advocates’ Day Agenda
https://alra.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Advocates-Day-Full-Agenda-6.20.pdf
Book, Railroaded…
https://wwnorton.com/books/Railroaded/
A March 2023 congressional hearing involving US Trade Representative Tai and Congressmen Murphy raised an important topic concerning the traits of an effective negotiator and whether a negotiator's "niceness" makes them less effective in bargaining.
A panel discussion on what last best and final offers are, their implications in the bargaining process, and practical considerations to think of when deciding whether or not to make a last best and final offer and how to respond to them.
What can negotiators learn from the stories of Star Wars, Chief Leschi, and groundbreaking Washington labor leader Addie Fletcher Booth? In this book club episode, Chris, Emily and Matt share interesting negotiations and labor relations books and resources.
References:
NW LERA Conference Registration
Dr. Quintard Taylor Jr.’s Website
BlackPast.org
Cobbins-Modica, Q. (2023, February 22). Addie Fletcher Booth (1902-1996)
Puget’s Sound
Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People
Project Implicit
Star Wars and Conflict Resolution
The next in the series of PERColator Profiles, get to know Lorraine Wilson share her experience as a school district lawyer and labor relations negotiator.
Hear insights from Jennifer Abruzzo, General Counsel of the NLRB and Mike Sellars, Executive Director of the Washington PERC on some of the main labor law topics of the day.
References:
General Counsel Memos
NLRB.gov
PERC.wa.gov
A conversations with PERC's Loyd Willaford about how negotiations is and is not like the game of chess.
References:
- How Life Imitates Chess: Making the Right Moves, from the Board to the Boardroom by Garry Kasparov | Goodreads
- The Art of Negotiation: How to Improvise Agreement in a Chaotic World by Michael A. Wheeler | Goodreads
A chat with three negotiators, who were at the table this summer in the latest round of bargaining between Washington State and its bargaining units. Find out how state bargaining works, what were the major themes this recent cycle, and what we can learn from the state tables about negotiation theory.
A chat with Marjorie Wittner, the Chair of the Massachusetts Commonwealth Employment Relations Board, about labor relations and conflict resolution related books and popular culture.
Welcome to the next in our series of PERColator Profiles where we get to know an experienced labor relations professional. Today, we profile Eric Nordlof, who shares his experience as a union lawyer, employer-side labor relations consultant, and author.
Join special guest Amanda Clark, a shareholder with the Asher, Gittler & D’Alba, Ltd., a labor and employment law firm in Chicago and explore how understanding the National Labor Relations Act and private sector labor law benefits state and local public sector labor negotiators.
Join us as we explore what makes a good apology and how they can help make you a more effective negotiator while building better relationships with your labor partners.
References:
- Why do people sue doctors?
- Apologies and Good Lawyering
Welcome to the inaugural PERColator Profile! Where we get to know an experienced labor-relations professional. Today, we profile Sue Bauman who joins us to share her experience as a teacher, union leader, lawyer, elected official and labor neutral.
This episode details the Core Concerns Approach, a method for constructively addressing emotions at the bargaining table.
Reference:
- Beyond Reason: Using Emotions as You Negotiate
- The Five Core Concerns Approach Infographic
A panel discussion concerning how negotiators are confronting CPI amounts at historic levels and how that is impacting the bargaining process.
Special Guests:
Debbie Brookman
Sarah Lorenzini
Shannon Phillips
A chat with guest Tom Melançon, Strategy Officer at the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, about Liberating Structures. Liberating Structures are facilitation tools that may help negotiators in bargaining, within teams, or to improve conversations.
Liberating Structures
https://www.liberatingstructures.com/
Meet special guest Sarah Cudahy of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service and learn about ALRA’s program for Advocates' Day at the virtual conference being held July 25.
Association of Labor Relations Agencies
Twitter @laboragencies
ALRA Conference Registration & Agenda
Economist Jim Stanford, Director of the Centre for Future Work,
Twitter @jimbostanford
Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
Twitter @FMCS_USA
A review of both the pros and cons of different bargaining forums, from online to in-person negotiations.
References:
- A.K. Schneider & S. McCarthy,“Choosing Among Modes of Communication”
- Noam Ebner,“Negotiating via Email”
A discussion of different criteria and questions that parties may pose in considering the merits of different bargaining forums.
Taking stock of the world of negotiations in 2022, this episode explores the different forums now available to conduct negotiations.
This is Part 3 of a three-part interview with science writer Annie Murphy Paul, author of The Extended Mind.
This is Part 2 of a three-part interview with science writer Annie Murphy Paul, author of The Extended Mind.
This is Part 1 of a three-part interview with science writer Annie Murphy Paul, author of The Extended Mind.
Join us for this bonus episode highlighting the work of the PERC Negotiation Project at this year's Northwest LERA conference.
This episode examines the problem of determining contract intent and offers some practical tools parties may utilize to clarify and document bargaining intent.
Explore interested based bargaining, or IBB, a collaborative tool for contract negotiations
An exploration of what interests are, how to discover them, and how they can help in your negotiations.
How paying attention to the bargaining table setup can change the dynamic in your negotiation for the better?
How can setting a positive tone through small talk be a bridge to success in your negotiations?
How can the physical space in which you bargain help set you up for success or serve as an impediment to resolving your next negotiation?
How food might advance your next collective bargaining negotiation?
References:
- Lakshmi Balachandra,
“Should You Eat While You Negotiate?” - Kevin N. Kniffin et al.,
“Eating Together at the Firehouse:…”
Our first episode introduces listeners to The PERColator Podcast, the latest effort by the PERC Negotiation Project to connect negotiation theory with practice of public sector labor relations in Washington State.