Faith is Not Blind: Recent Episodes
Faith is Not Blind
We hope you find a pattern of how to think about your questions and how, through grappling with them, to nourish your faith.
Emily: Being Divorced in a Family-Centered ChurchEmily talks about how her expectations were seriously challenged because of traumatic experiences in her childhood. She also discusses how her difficult divorce and the judgments that accompanied it caused her to create complex versions of both faith and charity. Emily’s story is told with both sweetness and wisdom, and she’ll teach you how to see your own suffering and the suffering of others through a unique, insightful lens.
Further Reading in Faith Is Not Blind:
“[O]ur memories of Kirtland can be enriched by our later, perhaps more turbulent experiences. The very meaning of our earlier witnesses will grow richer with the perspective of both time and complexity. . . That we once saw so clearly is our witness that we can again see clearly, now with even greater depth, in the very midst of —or perhaps because of—our afflictions.”
(Faith Is Not Blind, Chapter 8 “When Will the Angels Come?” p. 68)
FULL TEXT:
Faith Is Not Blind: Welcome to the Faith Is Not Blind Podcast. My name is Sarah d’Evegné and I’m here with my good friend Emily. Part of the reason that I really wanted Emily to be able to share her story is because it’s not an easy story, but it’s a story that has a lot of power and a lot of love in it. Emily, if you could just start off by talking a little bit about your childhood and your relationship with the Church and your testimony early on.
Emily: I had a I think I had a fairly happy childhood. I am the middle child of 5 and the oldest daughter. I was born and raised in the Church. I guess if I can just jump straight to my testimony, my family was active my whole life. When I was 12, I had an experience where I had an awakening and I needed to find out for myself. I had a lot of darkness come into my life at that point as well as from an earlier event when I was younger. I finally was old enough to process what had happened to me, and that really set me on a path of seeking the light. And I found that light through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. So I began studying the Book of Mormon. I began listening and watching anything uplifting that I could get my hands on. I read a lot. I went to Church and I listened to the lessons. Particularly when I studied the Book of Mormon, the scriptures that stood out to be the most or were the ones that let me know that I could know for myself. They were the ones that let me know that I could have a personal relationship with Jesus and I wanted that more than anything, so I sought it.
So at around the age of 12, I had a pretty strong witness that my Savior was there and that He loved me. I believed this is his Church and I had a strong testimony of Joseph Smith, so I had a pretty good foundation.
Faith Is Not Blind: You talked about how that strong spiritual foundation helped you to cope with an earlier traumatic event. How did finding that light help you, at least at that age, to feel like you could keep going forward and keep having faith in God?
Emily: So I was able to put things in perspective the best that I could at that age. I was able to realize that I could forgive the person that was involved in that situation with me, and that I could feel clean and pure and that I was of worth and value to God.
Faith Is Not Blind: How important to be able to feel that value. As you went forward in your life, how did you make sure–at least try to make sure–that you still had those feelings of worth and a light? I want to make sure that we talk about how the experiences that maybe don’t have light in them still can have value for us. How did you make sure that you maintained that attitude? Because as we get older, difficulties don’t stop, but neither does the light.
Emily: Oh, absolutely. When I was a teenager President Benson was the Prophet and he said a lot of great things to the youth. And I was very keen on following everything that he said to the letter. One of the blessings (and in some ways not a blessing) of having had a traumatic experience as a young child and then searching for the light, is that I clung to the light with a fervor and zeal because I never wanted to feel the darkness again. So I read my scriptures every day. I did Seminary–early morning Seminary. I went to Church every week. It was like if a new commandment came out, I was the first to do it. So for me, I was clinging to the Iron Rod.
Faith Is Not Blind: I think it’s interesting how you said “in a good way and maybe not in a good way.” Because if we feel like the light can protect us or immunize, we will probably be disappointed.
Emily: Exactly. I felt like in doing those things I would then make me immune to further darkness and that was not the case.
Faith Is Not Blind: Then why did you stick with the light? I think there might be an impulse to say, “This isn’t working.This protection isn’t working” or thinking, “I am being good so I’ll be blessed” but then those blessings aren’t coming. What kept you going if that strict obedience wasn’t giving you the blessings you expected? What kept you grounded and able to keep holding on? What helped you hold on in particular when things became even more difficult as you got older and had even more mature and more difficult experiences?
Emily: I’d like to talk about one of those experiences just to illustrate. I was married at the age of 21, and I had a marriage that lasted for 16 years and then it ended in divorce. And early on in our marriage I could see there were a lot of issues that we were dealing with. And really that’s when the darkness came back for me. That’s when I really struggled to understand why things were happening that way. Because I had been keeping all of the commandments. Because in my mind I thought I had put it on myself. I never put it on God. I thought I must be doing something wrong. I kept trying to fix myself. I kept trying to find an explanation and search through every corner of my soul to find out what was wrong with me. Because surely there was some commandment that I wasn’t following or otherwise this wouldn’t be happening. So I just kept soul searching and soul searching. And then at one point I kind of flipped to a little bit of disillusionment. I did go through a period where I had some conversations with Heavenly Father and I said, “Wow this is really hard.” And I was asking Him, “What did I do to deserve this?”
But then I was able to resolve it because the whole time He kept sending witness after witness after witness. And He would just find these moments where maybe I wasn’t fully involved in the situation or where I was mentally and emotionally available and instantly His Spirit would rush in or I would get just a feeling of love or a feeling of peace. And I would know undeniably that He was there and that He was guiding me. I’ve had several instances like that and that is what kept me going. Those experiences were very personal, very intimate–the kind of nobody-else-there experiences.
Faith Is Not Blind: And did you feel like because you had those experiences that you could keep going?
Emily: Yes. And also words from General Conference and words of the prophets and little quotes here and there. You know, I made the decision when I was going through this that I was going to remain active and faithful in the Church. It was not easy. But because I was in a place where I could hear those things.
Faith Is Not Blind: It sounds like that’s what you could control. You could at least choose to be in a place where you could find hope even if sometimes you had to wait for it. At least you could choose to be in that place and be available, which sometimes is all we can do.
Divorce is a difficult topic in the Church and I do want to talk about that a little bit. As a person who has been through a divorce, what might you say to other people in the Church to help them be supportive to people who are going through things like and maybe they don’t know how to react. Maybe they don’t know how to be supportive or how to give light to someone else who is going through it.
Emily: That’s a really good question. I would just say that I think we all are going to take our turn in the Refiner’s Fire–where it may appear on the outside that things are different than they actually are. And it’s very easy when you haven’t gone through a particular trial to pass judgment, and not even because you’re a bad person or even really wanting to pass judgement. But I think it’s natural to do so. To think, “Well, that person is going through that trial. What did they do?” I think it’s very healthy to acknowledge that we don’t have all the facts and there’s a high likelihood that there are a lot of the facts that cannot be discussed publicly. So rather than trying to figure out what happened or make a judgment call, this is what some people did really well. They rushed in without any judgment and they just asked what they could do to help. They just were completely available and they would just listen and they would just love. And never tried to give me advice, never tried to fix it. They just were there when I needed them. And they let me have the experience that I was having.
Faith is Not Blind: I think it’s so interesting that that matches your description of how God was with you. He was available to you. And when you were feeling like you didn’t know how to judge yourself as a twelve-year-old and when you were feeling like you were doing everything wrong and then God reached in and taught you that you had value. Did that experience help you judge other people less? Because it seems like what was the most powerful for you was when other people reached towards you without judgment. How has that helped you be that same way with other people?
Emily: I would say when I look at other people now I don’t see things in a black and white way. I see the complexity of the situation. I look for their goodness and I just respect their struggle and I don’t judge as much as humanly possible. I try not to judge because I know now. I know what they must be going through. And it’s actually a huge relief because trying to carry the burden of being the judge of somebody else is a very heavy burden. It’s just a lot easier to love them.
You know, one thing I wanted to say without going into great detail is that I certainly did feel judged a lot. But it was most of all by myself to myself. Because I had such a high standard for myself and I had believed and been taught that once you’re sealed in the temple, you don’t get divorced. You work at your marriage and you never give up. So when I went through a divorce I feel like a complete failure. I felt like I was apotacizing from the Church. Before my divorce, l had gone to church and I had sat in the pews in Sacrament Meeting. After my divorce, I went to Church and I snuck in the back door and sat on the last row. And just sat there, just so scared to be there. And I I felt like I had failed.
Faith is Not Blind: So how did you get through that?
Emily: It took a long time. It took me a long time to get the point where Heavenly Father was able to get through to me and just to let me know that it was okay. There’s still a little part of me every once in a while but that circles back that way, but he just let me know that it’s okay. And the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is so strong. And everything doesn’t have to be perfect and everything doesn’t have to look perfect. I had to completely let go of the paradigm of how things should look. What is the perfect LDS life? You know, you’re raised to go on a mission or maybe you go to a Church School. You’re active in the Church your whole life. You go to Girls’ Camp and Seminary Graduation.
Faith Is Not Blind: You check off all of the boxes.
Emily: Yes. You check off all of the boxes. I was the young woman with the picture of the temple on her wall and all of the inspirational quotes everywhere. And I was just so believing. So I went from that sort of extreme to this feeling of absolute failure, like I had missed the ideal. I had gotten a divorce and that was just not okay. But on the other side of that I found. . . Sorry. It’s so hard for me to talk about this in a calm way. I thought I could come and do this in a calm way.
Faith Is Not Blind: You’re doing great.
Emily: But I found Heavenly Father in a deeper way than I had ever found Him before. My relationship with him. Interestingly instead of now trying to look the part of a perfect woman. I felt like I had found something deeper than that. I felt like I had found the true meaning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was actually a–again I will use the word–relief to detach from all of that expectation, and for myself and for my children to just have a life experience.
Faith Is Not Blind: The last question that I want to ask is this: you said you found the true Church and the true meaning of the Gospel. How would you define what that truth is?
Emily: So I found the purity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is an understanding of His complete unconditional love and the power that is in the Atonement to lift and to heal and to just make everything okay. And I learned some things going through that–to sound a little cliche–that I couldn’t have learned any other way. I suppose I don’t know that for certain because this is the only way it happened. But I guess I would say that there are lessons that will be etched on my soul for eternity, things that I can’t unknow. By going through that refiner’s fire I learned that the pure message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is simply that you are a child of God. You’re here on this earth to have experiences to remind your Spirit to learn the Gospel. And if you’re lucky and blessed, you’ll be able to form an eternal family unit. I know there’s so much more after this life. This life is not just what we see here. So I have this feeling of connection to the Gospel of Jesus Christ–not necessarily the form or the expectation.
Faith Is Not Blind: You make me think of the scripture that talks about Christ saying that He has “engraven us upon the palms of His hands.” But you have also engraven Him on your hands and on your heart and on your life. And I think that’s a pretty beautiful way to have your life be focused. Thank you so much for sharing.
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Brian grew up in Liverpool, England in a poor family that was converted to the Church when young Brian met tall, American missionaries and invited his new “friends” to come to his house. His parents were completed committed to the Church, walking miles and miles each week to attend meetings and to help build a new church building for their congregation brick by brick. But Brian’s true conversion didn’t take place until he had a harrowing experience while working as an engineer in Antarctica. A sudden storm forced Brian to find refuge in a cave he dug in the ice, and for three days and three nights he suffered and prayed and repented. He found light in that dark place and it was a miracle that saved him. This miracle not only saved his life, but it saved his soul.
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by Faith is Not Blind
https://www.faithisnotblind.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/BETH-BARKER-FINB-INT.mp3Like many teenagers, Beth rolled her eyes at the way the Law of Chastity was taught in her home and at Church, She just didn’t understand why it was such a big deal.
As a young adult in England, she didn’t want to be different from her friends, so she decided she was going to make her own choices rather than following the advice of her parents and church leaders.
Beth’s story is about the mistakes we all make, whether we’re the teenager, the parent, or the leader.
Beth’s story is about how we can all learn to repent, whether we’re the teenager, the parent, or the leader.
Her honest story about chastity teaches us that it’s never too late to repent. And it’s never too late to forgive.
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Jenae Nelson: From Homeless to Finding a Home with Godby Faith is Not Blind
http://www.faithisnotblind.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Janae-Nelson-Faith-is-Not-Blind-Interview_-From-Homeless-to-Finding-My-Home-with-God.mp3Conversion is not just a faith moment. It is the process that comes after the conversion story.
As an agnostic and homeless sixteen-year-old, Jenae decided to search for her biological father. When she met him for the first time, he took her in and introduced her to his faithful, LDS family and to the Church.
Jenae says, “It was almost a Saul to Paul reconversion, the way I caught on fire overnight.”
“For me, that was the turning point. If my earthly dad—my biological dad—would go through so much effort to bring me into his life. . . I was so impressed that he would be willing to do so much for me that I thought maybe, just maybe that might be what God is like.”
“I finally got the point where I thought, I have to find out, I have to know if this is real or not. Because I had given up on God. I remember the first prayer I said. It had been years and years since I had prayed. And I started off: ‘Heavenly Father, if you’re there, if you’re real, then please just let me know. And if you are, I will serve you for the rest of my life.’ And he answered that prayer.”
But the story doesn’t end there. It never does.
After getting married and having children, Jenae was diagnosed with lupus; she had questions about doctrinal issues; she experienced difficulties with a church leader.
Jenae confesses, “I felt guilty if I doubted. . .but things weren’t as simple as I had thought.”
So she stripped her testimony down to the basics and tried to piece it all back together, starting with her relationship with God and His love for her. As she rebuilt and restructured her testimony, the pieces of truth and love gradually fell into place. And when she discovered that she knew the essential truths of the Gospel, she returned to God again.
Jenae concludes: “Just like I told the Lord, ‘Once I know, I’m yours forever. This is the place now, forever for me.’”
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Since she was little, Erica has always appreciated the value of asking sincere religious questions. Unfortunately, she has experienced a variety of responses to her questions, some of which made her feel like perhaps she didn’t belong in the church. Erica shares how her relationships with others have been both challenged and ultimately strengthened as she has learned how to use the process of seeking answers to her questions to develop her relationship with her Heavenly Parents.
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Elder Bruce Hafen is co-author of Faith is Not Blind and is an emeritus General Authority for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In this interview, Elder Hafen details the role of questioning in distinguishing between Gospel belief and knowledge in his own life. He shares his own experience with doubt and with his own questions as he learned to develop his testimony, and offers a refreshing look at how we all need to work to develop our beliefs.
The post Bruce Hafen : My Story of How I Found My Own Testimony first appeared on Faith is Not Blind.
After being raised in an orthodox home where questions about faith were not encouraged, Kristine had to learn to revise her belief-system when she received an unexpected and unorthodox answer to a prayer. Kristine had grown up in a world with black and white thinking and had to learn to overcome her certainty in order to start to see nuances in her life and in her belief system. She talks about how her husband’s willingness to try and and understand her helped her survive her faith crisis, especially when other loved ones reacted with fear and criticism.
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Christian shares his remarkable story about leaving the Gospel at a young age and what prompted his return to the Church years later. He speaks openly about what led him away from the Church and then shares the incredible story of what led him to return to his family and to the Church and to then choose a life of complete spiritual devotion.
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Jenna had always assumed that once she had faith, it would basically remain the same as it always had. It wasn’t until her sister chose to leave the Church that Janna had to reevaluate her definition of what faith is. Janna beautifully describes how she learned that healthy faith grows, matures, and progresses as we do.
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Ben shares his captivating story about his experience of being an openly gay, active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Through his experience of coming out to his family, he learned the value of astonishing value of unconditional love as his family allowed him to make his own choices without judgement. Ben also learned to wrestle with uncertainty as he weighed his options and ultimately decided to remain active in the Church. He offers unique counsel for gay members, family members, and for ward members.
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As a trial lawyer, Bill has a unique perspective about using the concept of the burden of proof when doing religious research. Drawing on their years of legal experience, Elder Hafen and Bill discuss how to weigh evidence and listen to both sides as a juror might in a court case. Bill also shares how his battle with cancer expanded the strength of revelatory evidence in his life.
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Dan Ellsworth says his faith crisis made him feel like “a bomb went off.” In this episode, Dan’s shares the personal details and painful realities that accompanied his own crisis of faith. He then describes how he eventually found personal redemption that helped him not only survive the crisis but emerge from it a stronger, more spiritually settled person. Dan also offers seasoned advice that will help both those experiencing a faith crisis and those who have loved ones struggling with deep doubts.
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As a biracial member of the church, unfortunately Tori has had to deal with ignorant questions and racist comments from other members of the church. With complete honesty Tori shares how painful these interactions have been, but she also shares how she has learned to be forgiving and patient because she wants to help others understand how it feels to be marginalized. Her willingness to share both her sacred and her challenging experiences will inspire you to be more open-minded, more loving, and to remember, as Tori quotes Paul as saying, “[Y]e are all one in Christ” (Galatians 3:28).
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In a rare, personal interview about his childhood and teenage years, Terryl Givens recounts how his family encountered the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and what originally attracted him to the faith when he was a teenager. He also shares a personal account of how writing By the Hand of Mormon both challenged and sustained his faith.
The post Terryl Givens Part One: My Personal Story of Continually Restructured Testimony first appeared on Faith is Not Blind.
Sister Hafen is the co-author of Faith Is Not Blind and was on the Young Women General Board. As the mother of seven children, she found ways to create a comfortable environment for her children to develop their own faith in a safe space. She discusses how she tried to nurture and teach her children in a home where they could learn how to deal with complexity and feel free to openly discuss their beliefs and doubts.
The post Marie Hafen: Creating a Family Culture that Nurtures Complex Faith first appeared on Faith is Not Blind.
Missy’s whole world changed when her Dad chose to leave the church and her Mom chose to stay. The stark contrasts that existed in her home gradually taught Missy to stop seeing in black and white and to learn to love her Dad unconditionally rather than to judge his choices. This new willingness to see and to accept the "gray areas" strengthened not only her relationship with her Dad but also her relationship with Heavenly Father. Missy’s story helps to demonstrate how we can learn to see our loved ones through God’s eyes regardless of the choices they make, and how God’s eyes can teach us to see these people with hope and charity rather than with judgment or criticism.
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This extraordinary three-part podcast series shares the real story of parents who learned how to love their gay daughter unconditionally. They share both the painful and healing parts of their journey and give us a glimpse into how they manage to cling to both their faith and their daughter. Both Connie and Stan’s stories can be shared with those searching for the most effective ways to show love to their LGBTQ children
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Margaret’s life has not been the way she expected or prayed it would be when she first became a convert to the Church. Time and time again she encountered staggering loss and grief, but she didn’t always receive the help she needed from other Church members. In this episode, Margaret shares how she learned not to let the behavior of others affect her personal faith.
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