Marketing For Learning®: Recent Episodes
Marketing for Learning
The only podcast in the world that’s going to help you better understand marketing for learning® fundamentals and help you tackle your learner engagement problem once and for all! Hosted by Ashley Sinclair and Hannah Waddams, this podcast comprises of short bursts of learning and insights to help you embrace marketing tactics, strategies and thinking.
Marketing for learning. It’s our business.
www.maas-marketing.co.uk
Look, I'm not going to lie, this is a bit of an experiment. This song gets in my head more than I care to admit, so I thought I'd share it with you.
Sorry? But also, you're welcome.
The Canva Confession: the most expensive lesson in corporate AI
Canva gave all 5,000 of its employees a full week off — cleared calendars, best tools, guided workshops, a hackathon, 26,000 hours of hands-on AI. Then its Chief Customer Officer wrote a confession in Fortune: "The bottleneck wasn't the technology. It was us."
If it happened to Canva — AI-native, generously resourced, staffed with people who wanted the tools — it's already happening to you. Only your budget was tighter and nobody cleared a week off anyone's calendar.
In this episode Ashley unpacks why record AI spend is delivering almost no return, the difference between access, adoption and embedding, and the five reasons every stalled AI rollout fails — every one of them a marketing problem, not a technology one. Plus what 82% engagement actually takes, and the discipline Canva walked right up to and never named.
The data (all sources):
- Download the AI Adoption Playbook and stop paying for tech no one uses. It includes the same methodology behind our award-winning Capgemini work.
- Rob Giglio's confession, Fortune
- Enterprise GenAI spend hit ~$37bn in 2025, Menlo Ventures
- Near-universal adoption, and only ~a quarter measuring return — McKinsey, The State of AI
- 95% of AI deployments delivered no measurable impact (MIT), Fortune
- 42% of companies abandoned most AI initiatives in 2025, S&P Global
- 80%+ of workers use AI at work, 78% bring their own, CIO —
- Willingness to support change fell from 74% to 38%, HBR (Gartner)
- How we drove 82% engagement at Capgemini
Key topics:
- AI adoption challenges
- Behaviour change vs. technology deployment
- Marketing and communication in change management
- The importance of internal champions and community
- Measuring true success in AI initiatives
When the vacuum cleaner was invented, slightly dusty floors became socially unacceptable overnight. According to Mark Eggers, co-founder of micro learning platform Yarno, AI is doing exactly the same thing to your output expectations, and he's not wrong.
In this episode, I'm joined by Mark and Tom Bailey, Head of Learning at OFX and L&D Professional of the Year 2025, broadcasting from Australia at a deeply unreasonable hour. We cover the attention economy, what it's actually doing to your employees, and why "proud to announce" is not a communications strategy.
We get into:
- Why the average knowledge worker toggles between apps 1,200 times a day, and what that means for learning design
- The quiz-first model, spaced repetition, and why "cheating" in micro learning is actually the whole point
- AIDA — and why L&D routinely skips from Awareness straight to Action and then wonders why no one shows up
- The internal marketing moves that drove 91% completion on genuinely dry commercial content
- Why a great campaign and a mediocre product will always kill each other
Tom's take: marketing and sales skills are non-negotiable for modern L&D practitioners.
Mark's take: someone in your C-suite needs to be on camera.
My take: both of them are right, and most L&D teams are doing neither.
A sharp, honest conversation about attention, engagement, and why the learning industry needs to stop navel-gazing and start competing for the eyeballs it's losing.
The conversation delves into the death of a campaign and the marketing strategy behind it. It introduces the fictional business Axion and its learning program Apex, highlighting the tragic death of Apex due to neglect. The importance of personalization in marketing is emphasized, drawing parallels with Netflix's approach to personalization. The conversation delves into the critical elements of successful campaigns, emphasizing the importance of design, copywriting, and strategy. It highlights the need for integrated and consistent marketing efforts that span a period of time to capture attention, build trust, and drive action.
Takeaways
- The five things that make learning campaigns die prematurely
- Marketing Strategy Design is as important as your learning products
- Campaigns need to span a period of time
Marketing in learning isn’t just about flashy emails or poster campaigns. It’s about trust, visibility, and staying human, especially when the ground is shifting under our feet. In this episode, Ashley Hinchcliffe and Hannah Clark unpack why silence is the enemy of People functions, and how to keep your audiences engaged when uncertainty, redundancies, and AI-fuelled upheaval dominate the workplace. From K-pop obsessions to bluntly honest bank ads, they explore what makes campaigns stick in 2025, why hyper-realism beats sugar-coated spin, and how multi-channel, multi-touch campaigns are the only way to cut through the noise. If your L&D or HR team has ever wondered how to keep marketing alive in messy times, this conversation will show you why the fundamentals matter more than ever.
SHOW NOTES
- Learner Journey Mapping Guide
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- Hannah's LinkedIn
This isn’t your average EdTech chinwag. In this special episode of the Marketing for Learning podcast, Ashley is joined by Lori Niles-Hofmann (author of The 8 Levers of EdTech Transformation) and Dr. Serena Gonsalves-Fersch (Global Head of Talent at SoftwareOne) for a no-fluff, no-slides-needed conversation about what really makes EdTech work — and what makes people quietly nope out of your platform.
Together, the trio unpacks:
- The 8 levers of effective EdTech transformation
- The “leavers” - ie, things we desperately need to bin
- Why being data-informed trumps being data-obsessed
- What marketing, memory, and a badly-behaved agent called Sven have in common
- And why context, not content, is what really matters
If you’ve ever been promised an “AI-powered, Netflix-of-learning” experience and ended up with a glorified folder of SCORM files, this one’s for you.
RESOURCES:
- Lori's Book - The 8 Levers of Ed Tech Transformation
- Serena's YouTube Channel
- The People Impact Loop® Guide
L&D doesn’t need more content. Or more dashboards. Or more chaos.
It needs structure. Strategy. And a system that actually works.
In this final episode of Series 2, Han brings it all together — showing how every part of the People Impact Loop® helps you stop reacting and start delivering real, measurable change.
You’ll learn:
- Why understanding your audience is the first, and most important, step
- How alignment and experience design unlock real relevance
- And why marketing and measurement aren’t “nice-to-haves”, they’re how you create and prove value
This isn’t a recap. It’s a blueprint.
Because impact doesn’t come from good intentions.
It comes from good design — built in a loop that never stops working for you.
LINKS:
- Learn more about the People Impact Loop®
- Take the People Impact Loop® diagnostic
L&D knows measurement matters.
But when the pressure’s on to “prove impact,” most teams default to what’s easy, not what’s meaningful.
In this episode, we’re joined by Nelson Sivalingam to unpack how learning functions can shift from reporting activity to demonstrating real business value.
We explore:
- Why traditional learning metrics fall short
- How to connect learning with performance and behaviour change
- What it takes to embed measurement into the entire learning process, not just the end
This isn’t about dashboards or data overload.
It’s about designing for outcomes from the start — and knowing what success actually looks like.
Because if you don’t define impact, you’ll never be able to prove it.
LINKS:
- Connect with Nelson on LinkedIn
- Check out HowNow
- Fancy reading Nelson’s book, Learning at Speed? Grab your copy here.
Most L&D “campaigns” are a poster, an email, and… silence.
This episode calls time on one-and-done launches — and digs into what it really takes to build marketing for learning® campaigns that cut through the noise and drive action.
You’ll learn:
- Why real campaigns don’t end at launch
- How to apply multi-channel, audience-first thinking to internal comms
- What L&D can steal from politics, brand marketing and behavioural science
If your initiatives start strong and fizzle fast, this episode is for you.
Because attention isn’t guaranteed. You’ve got to earn it — and keep earning it.
LINKS
- How to build a learning campaign guide
- Learn more about our L&D campaign-in-a-box
- Download our campaign-in-a-box brochure
Learning isn’t broken because people are lazy. It’s broken because the experience is.
In this episode, we’re joined by Tom McDowall to talk about why most learning still feels like a chore, and how to change it.
We get into:
- Why more content ≠ more impact
- How to design frictionless, user-led learning journeys
- And what L&D can learn from UX, product, and service design
This one’s for anyone sick of seeing learning dumped on a platform and called a solution. Because if the experience sucks, the outcomes will too.
LINKS:
- Tom McDowall on LinkedIn
- IDT YouTube Channel
Too many L&D teams are building content for “learners” — not people.
In this episode, Ash and Han dive into the one thing that makes or breaks every learning initiative: knowing your audience. Not their job title. Not their LMS login history. But what actually drives them.
They unpack:
- Why “employees” and “learners” aren’t real personas
- How to ask the right people the right questions (and avoid confirmation bias)
- What to do with audience research once you’ve got it — and how to avoid building blind
So, if you’re still building learning based on job titles, gut feel, or “what we’ve always done” — this one’s for you. Because relevance starts with understanding. And understanding starts here.
LINKS:
- Free guide to building learner personas
- Learner persona template
- Follow MAAS Marketing on LinkedIn
This week, Han’s joined by the brilliant Heather Burright — and they’re cutting straight to the core of what’s holding L&D back.
Spoiler: it’s not a lack of content. It’s a lack of curiosity.
This episode covers:
- What it really means to identify root problems — and why content alone doesn’t drive change
- How to build trust with stakeholders (so you can disagree and still stay in the room)
- Why asking better questions leads to better learning — and better outcomes
This is a must-listen for anyone stuck in firefighting mode, drowning in requests, or quietly screaming inside every time someone says, “we just need a quick e-learning.”
Because we’re not here to be content vending machines.
We’re here to drive real change.
And that starts with one simple shift:
Stop rushing to build. Start learning to ask.
LINKS:
- Heather Burright’s LinkedIn
- Learning For Good Podcast
- Learn more about the People Impact Loop®
Most L&D teams are stuck in a cycle of activity. Not impact.
In this episode, your fav duo are back to rip into the status quo — and dig deeper into the People Impact Loop®: a no-fluff framework that helps People functions stop shouting into the void and start making measurable change.
We’re talking:
- Why “aligning to business goals” isn’t optional (and how to actually do it)
- Why your learners are subscribers — and should be treated like it
- How long-term thinking beats one-off learning blasts, every time
And the big one: how to prove impact without needing a PhD in data science.
If your learning strategy feels more like guesswork than growth — this one’s for you.
LINKS:
- People Impact Loop® diagnostic
- Learn more about the People Impact Loop®
- Follow MAAS Marketing on LinkedIn
Drum roll please... 🥁🥁🥁
After lots of speculation and guessing, it's time for you to meet the People Impact Loop™.
You've got the potential. You've got the passion. Yet you are still undervalued and constantly fighting for relevance.
The issue isn’t effort or ideas – it’s the lack of a system that makes their work essential.
For decades, the same challenges have persisted: low engagement, leadership buy-in struggles, and initiatives that fail to gain traction. And now, at last, the People Impact Loop™ changes that.
So get your listening ears on, and settle in for a podcast that is going to change the way you look at L&D, forever.
You’ve built an amazing learning product - now what? In this episode, Ashley and Hannah break down why marketing isn’t just a bolt-on to learning but a fundamental part of making it successful. They dive into how positioning, messaging, and audience research can transform a learning experience from nice to have to unmissable. Expect insights on emotional triggers, behavioural science, multi-channel campaigns, and why generic messaging just won’t cut it. Plus, plenty of playful banter, pineapple references, and a reminder that “learning” alone isn’t a selling point.
SHOW NOTES:
- The AIDAL Model – A previous episode covering the AIDAL (Attention, Interest, Desire, Action, Loyalty) framework, which was a key part of the discussion on structuring marketing campaigns.
- Behavioural Science in Marketing for Learning® – Relevant when discussing FOMO, urgency, and how to create demand for learning.
- Strategic Marketing for People Functions course
Your favourite duo is back to discuss a contentious topic in L&D: The Technology Trap. Of course, we all know technology is a critical tool in forward thinking L&D teams, but can it solve all of our issues? (Shock horror, Ash and Han don't think so!)
In this episode we discuss:
- The importance of understanding the user experience and the need for root cause analysis to understand engagement challenges.
- Why audience centricity is key for future-proofing your L&D function.
- The importance of aligning your strategy, to the business goals, then finding the right tech to enable your strategy.
So whether you're a tech lover, or hater, or somewhere in between... we're sure this ep will give you loads of food for thought!
In this fantastic ep, Ash and Georgie Cooke dive into the crucial link between employee experience and L&D, covering everything from culture and management to learning opportunities. They explore why audience insights matter, how to personalise learning, and the necessity of aligning L&D with business goals. The conversation also tackles blended learning, accessibility, and the challenges of measuring impact, urging L&D to rethink success beyond just engagement metrics.
Links:
- Georgie Cooke's LinkedIn
- Lima Delta's website
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Our Strategic Marketing Course
In the second episode of our series "From Training to Transformation: Redefining L&D’s Role" Ash and Han delve into the critical role of stakeholders in transforming L&D from a cost centre to a strategic business partner.
This ep is jam-packed with practical tips and insights including:
- Why it is critically important for L&D to align to the business goals.
- How you can engage with senior leaders and find out the crucial insights needed for success.
- The power of shifting from a training-needs mindset, to a performance-needs approach.
Whether you're a seasoned L&D pro or just starting your career, this episode will challenge you to think differently about how L&D can truly serve as a driver of business success. Happy listening!
LINKS:
- Strategic Marketing for L&D Programme
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Han's LinkedIn
New Series! From Training To Transformation: Redefining L&D’s Role.
We're so excited to announce our new multi-episode podcast series on L&D transformation. Our first episode kicks off with Derek Mitchell, Analytics Partner at Novo Nordisk.
In this episode Derek discusses the critical role of data in L&D. He emphasises using data to proactively identify training needs, personalise communications, and measure the impact of learning initiatives. He also highlights the importance of moving beyond traditional metrics like course completions to focus on performance, skills growth, and behaviour change.
It's a fantastic episode, and definitely sets the scene for this crucial series!
Links:
- Derek's LinkedIn
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- Strategic Marketing for L&D Course
Grab your tissues... because this is the final time you'll hear from Ash & Han in 2024! 😢 But indulge us in an episode of reflections on the crazy year that was 2024. From their personal highlights (did they mention 2 weddings & a baby?!), they also share their highlights from L&D in 2024, and look ahead to a very exciting 2025.
See you on the other side, our dear Marketing For Learning friends 🍍
What are the big L&D trends of 2025? Well we don't know... but Han asked Chat GPT, and unsurprisingly she didn't like it's answer. So in this episode Han discusses the 'trends' we see year after year, and what she thinks should be the trend of 2025.
For all you lifelong, lucky listeners we're giving you 10% off our new 'Strategic Marketing for L&D Leaders' course, which kicks off on March 5th, 2025. It's our Masterclass, but it's getting a facelift and a much bigger emphasis on strategic marketing. Lots more information on our website if you want it.
If you want a 10% off voucher, just message Ash on LinkedIn and tell her you want to join the #PineappleArmy. We'll do the rest!
P.S. Sorry for the weird promo - normal service resumes next week!
Does everybody just know the value of L&D? That's what most learning professionals seem to think. And shock... Han disagrees.
It's time L&D stopped assuming everybody knows our value... now is the time to prove it. In this episode, Han is going to cover:
- The danger of assumptions.
- Why data is your best friend.
- Why it's time to own our craft and align with the business goals.
If you’re ready to step up, take ownership, and do something different. This is the ep for you.
Happy listening friendos 🍍
LINKS:
- Data in L&D: An interview with NilesNolen
- Data, Analytics and Testing in marketing for learning®
- Data-led marketing at Novo Nordisk with Peter Manniche Riber
When we mutter the phrase "internal comms" to many of our clients, we see them shudder. "Do we have to get them involved? They're always a blocker to our plans!" We've heard it all before...
So in this ep, Ash and Han address why internal comms must be involved in your marketing for learning initiatives, and how to make the whole thing smoother.
Happy listening guys!
LINKS:
- Internal comms, friend or foe?
Welcome to the 2nd edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.
In this session Vesta Charleshouse, Learning Coordinator at AMICULUM (and marketing for learning masterclass alumni!) joins Han to discuss getting more from what she has with her marketing approaches.
From casting the net wider with influencers, to using MailChimp for email marketing, this episode is a juicy one.
Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han or Ash, just email us at hello@maas-marketing.co.uk. It's completely free, it'll just cost you the time a recording takes!
NOTES:
- Vesta’s LinkedIn
- Han’s LinkedIn
- Come on our surgery: hello@maas-marketing.co.uk
Inspired by a chat with Laura Overton at World of Learning, Han is here this week to talk to you about making 'movements' in L&D, alongside your marketing efforts. And it's all about relinquishing control and enabling your people to do it themselves!
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn
- The Influencer Marketing Episode
Hot off the back of World of Learning, Han is here to set the record straight: Marketing for Learning is for ALL businesses, no matter your size! You have an L&D team? Fab. Now think about marketing.
Simples.
Links:
- Han's LinkedIn
- Our personas ebook
James Blunt is a musician who knows how to get attention. In this episode Ash examines why his latest PR stunt is a masterclass in marketing and virality.
SHOW NOTES
- James' video on X
- Marketing Masterclass info
Welcome to the first edition of our Sunday Surgery - our brand new feature on the Marketing for Learning pod. These episodes are designed to help real L&Ders tackle their real challenges in a free consultancy session with Ash and Han.
In this first session Louise Donnelly, Senior Learning Manager and Stephen Clark, Learning Technologies Manager bring a challenge our gals have seen time and time again: "We're building a thing, what do we call it?"
So, what's in a name? Let's explore, shall we...
Oh also, if you want to come on the Surgery and get a free consultancy session with Han and Ash, just email us at hello@maas-marketing.co.uk. It's completely free, it'll just cost you a recording so others can benefit from our conversation!
NOTES:
- Louise's LinkedIn
- Stephen's LinkedIn
- Come on our surgery: hello@maas-marketing.co.uk
WOWZERS. Episode ONE HUNDRED. We can't quite believe we've hit this milestone. So to mark the occasion, Han has handpicked the best bits from all 100 episodes, to share with you today. From campaigns to mindset - this episode covers it all. So grab a glass of fizz! - or a brew if you'd prefer - and share the next 30ish minutes with us as we toast 100 episodes of the Marketing for Learning® podcast.
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
Full episodes:
- Beyond Bums On Seats: Solving The Engagement Challenge
- How Would A Marketer Do L&D?
- Storytelling With Nick Shackleton-Jones
- L&D's Awareness Problem
- Creating Demand For Learning
- UX Design In Learning & Development
- Why Think Like A Marketer
- How To Create A Learning Campaign
- Data In L&D: An Interview With NilesNolen
Coming at you LIVE from LEARNING LIVE 2024... Ash and Han discuss one topic that has come up numerous times during this event: Market Research. No, it's not a sexy topic. But it's critical for your marketing for learning® success. So in this bitesized episode, we tell you how and why research is so important in L&D.
LINKS:
- Our latest ebook
- Han's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
Why do things go viral? How come humans seem to want to do something just because everyone else is? It's because of the psychological phenomenon called 'the bandwagon effect'. Ash explores with you what the bandwagon effect is, and how we can start to use this cognitive, unconscious bias to our advantage in marketing for learning®.
NOTES & LINKS:
- What is the bandwagon effect?
- Ep 13 - L'Oreal's learning culture with Caroline Fitzpatrick
- Ep 56 - Leveraging FOMO for impact
- Ashley's LinkedIn
In this ep, Han is joined by Sam Goodman, L&D Manager at ITPEnergised. Sam is a teacher, who has transitioned over to L&D – and for that reason he has a super interesting take on engagement at all stages of the learning experience.
This episode covers a range of topics, including:
- Contextualising learning for your audience
- The power of humility in learning and marketing
- How a marketing mindset will help L&Ders
And as Han promised in the ep, here's the link to the Learner Personas guide.
- Han's LinkedIn
- Sam's LinkedIn
Competitions are a great tactic to boost engagement, right!? Welllllllll... Han disagrees. And in this podcast episode she explains why. Listen in to learn more about:
- The cobra effect
- The pitfalls of incentivising learning
- When you can use competitions or incentives (but Han is still reluctant!)
LINKS:
- Han's Linkedin
- The AIDAL episode of the podcast
- And a lil' shout out to Tom McDowall and his podcast, Instructional Design Tips
Ever struggle to find inspiration for your marketing for learning efforts? 🤔 Well in this episode Han's going to help you put a stop to that. For 17 hours she took note of all of the adverts she saw, and now in this episode, she's translating them into inspiration for YOUR marketing for learning campaigns. Ain't she great?!
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn profile
- Grace Beverley's Podcast, Working Hard, Hardly Working
- Boot's latest TV advert
Want to better understand what in the heckiddy heck your people are doing on your learning platforms? Then you need to start monitoring bounce rate. Ashley tells all in this short, exploratory episode!
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- Google Analytics
No, Han hasn't had a complete leave of her senses while Ash is away. But she really does think there are some instances where marketing won't help L&D... particularly if:
- Your learning experience is pants
- You haven't changed your thinking
- You aren't thinking long-term!
So if you want to know the pitfalls to avoid, this ep is for you. Happy listening! 🍍
What if we told you that we have one, really easy trick to make your learning land better with your audience? Well you're in luck. Because that's exactly what Han's bringing to the podcast today. And it's all about terminology. If you want to get them to walk the walk, you've gotta talk their talk.
LINKS:
Han's LinkedIn
4 P's Podcast
The question of the day: Why is engagement still L&D's biggest challenge? Well it's no surprise that Han's got an opinion on this topic and she's here to give her two cents (including the fact she doesn't think marketing for learning® is the sole solution to the engagement challenge).
Every time Pinocchio lied, his nose got longer. The outputs and impact of his lie was immediate. And although that stopped Pinocchio lying, might bringing the outputs and impact of learning into the immediate term make people learn MORE? Han thinks so, and in this episode, she explains why.
LINKS:
Han’s LinkedIn
Seth Godin’s newsletter about the Pinocchio protocol.
Choice Hacking
It's story time with Han this week, as she lets us in on a client conversation that really got her cogs turning. In this bite sized ep, Han delves into demand generation, and how it might help all L&Ders (and stakeholders!) think differently about marketing for learning®.
Has Han lost the plot? Or should L&D really be eating dog food?
OK. She doesn't mean it literally, but eating your own dog food means using your product or service in the way a user would use it. And that means that L&D need to start learning – using the platforms and services we want our people to use.
This bitesized episode will help you understand why using your own learning products helps L&D teams:
- Market their offering accurately and authentically
- Improve empathy with their target audience
- Enhance, tweak and adapt their learning products.
Happy listening!
Have you heard the news? We won the Awareness Campaign of the Year award at the British Training Awards with our friends at Capgemini University! 🎉 But no, this isn’t a pod of us blowing our own trumpet – Han’s letting you in on the secrets that made this campaign so, SO impactful. Including
- Why getting marketing involved from programme inception is so important
- How learner personas were key to success
- The difference long-term planning made to this project
So, get this pod in your ear’oles to see how you can make your next marketing for learning initiative truly impactful!
LINKS:
Learner Personas Guide
Han’s LinkedIn
British Training Awards from New Possible
It's a question many of us have pondered - could that learning module have just been an email? How much of my learning is actually just information that I could communicate in a different way? In this podcast, Ashley invites two industry experts to talk about the world of learning and whether L&D REALLY could be replaced by marketing and comms.
SHOW NOTES:
- Dr Heidi Kirby's LinkedIn
- Heidi's BLOC podcast
- Loren Sanders' LinkedIn
- Loren's book
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Han and Ash often offer up a lot of criticism for how things are done in L&D. So could they do it better? This episode the ladies examine what they'd do in a senior L&D role, using their marketing brains. Very interesting chat indeed.
- NilesNolen Learning Triage flowchart
- Hannah's LinkedIn
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Han and Ash keep telling you to 'take your learning hat off'... but what on earth does that mean?! In this pod, Han dives right into what it means and how you can up the empathy with your target audience.
Short and sweet. Just like the pod host. Although that would more likely be short and sassy... whatevs.
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn
- Learner Persona Ebook
Ah yes, another year, another Learning at Work Week. Cue a flurry of marketing activities.
This week Ash raises an important question: Is LAWW doing more harm than good, or should we be doing marcoms around this? Not quite an Ashley rant, but nearly 🤣
- Ashley's LinkedIn
We've spoken about the value proposition canvas (VPC) a few times on the pod. But in this ep, Han's shaking things up – and she thinks she's come up with the perfect VPC for L&D. One that's going to help you make real marketing magic. 🪄
LINKS:
- Value Proposition Canvas Template
- Han's LinkedIn Profile
People Experience roles are on the rise and L&D is in a constant state of shift. In this unique conversation Ash chats to Josh Novelle, VP of People Experience and Insight at HSBC to discuss the role of L&D in modern enterprises, and what we need to do to remain relevant and valuable to the businesses we service. What a crackin' conversation!
- Josh's LinkedIn
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Brand hierarchies (aka, brand architecture) are an essential element of marketing for learning®, and also grossly overlooked by you L&D folk. In this short episode Ash discusses what brand hierarchies are, why they're important and why it's absolutely critical to establish how all your corporate brands interplay with each other BEFORE you start big pieces of marketing work.
Save yourself a headache, start up those brand hierarchy discussions early and really understand what you can actually do from a branding perspective from the outset, instead of trying to figure it amidst a project!
In this super juicy episode, Ash is joined by Sarah Hatton, Chief Learning Officer at The LPI, to discuss their recently released 2024 Learning Survey. Ash and Sarah discuss what’s changing in L&D, the direction of travel of our industry, and what we need to do to stay future focused.
Happy listening!
LINKS:
- The LPI Learning Survey 2024
- Sarah's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
Do marketing campaigns work for L&D? Well yeah, of course they do! But not everyone's convinced... In this podcast episode, Han sets the record straight on why campaigns are a great decision for all L&D teams.
We're about to get musical in this episode... or are we? Don't worry, this podcast won't subject you to Han's karaoke singing (even though she thinks she's great at it...) but she will be talking about the importance of HUM, SING, and SHOUT.
Using these 3 words, you'll translate your marketing for learning® strategy into a consistent, compelling and easy to use marketing plan. What more could you want?
Happy listening!
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn Profile
- How do create a learning campaign
Want to influence your audience's behaviours? Then you need to use behavioural science. A happy marriage of sociology, psychology, behavioural economics and more, behaviour science is the research-backed approach to impacting changes in behaviour. In this meaty ep, Ash delves into behavioural science, and shows you how to start applying some of its principles to L&D.
A hefty, tip-filled episode. Noice.
SHOW NOTES: Here's everything Ash referenced in this pod...
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- Nudge podcast episode
- Oglivy's Behavioural Science Annual 2023
- Behavioural Science Principles Encyclopaedia
- The Stanley Cup viral response
- Episode 56 - Loss Aversion & FOMO
- Milgram Obedience Experiment
We’ve all heard the saying “consistency is key”, haven’t we? And this old adage is just as important in marketing for learning as it is in every other aspect of life. In fact, in marketing circles, the “rule of seven” is often spoken about – and it’s a rule that L&D needs to adopt. In this episode Han helps you apply the rule of 7 to your L&D function #YoureWelcome
Links:
- Han's LinkedIn
- Rule of 7 Blog
How the tables have turned... This week, Hannah sits in the interview seat. In a recording from the BLOC podcast, Han is interviewed by Heidi Kirby PhD, discussing all things marketing for learning®. From personas and employee-centricity, to L&D taking more accountability of their budgets – this podcast covers it all.
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn
- Heidi's LinkedIn
- The BLOC podcast
- MAAS' Learner Personas guide.
Learning through failure is one of the most important aspects of a marketing mindset. In this first mini-series episode Ashley talks through one of her earliest failures as a new marketer, and what she learned from that mistake. Hopefully you can learn from it too!
SHOW NOTES:
- HubSpot Academy
- MAAS Educational Stuffs
- Ashley's LinkedIn
"Can you just...?" is a phrase that sends shudders down any marketers spine. No, marketing is not "just" sending an email, making a poster or zhuzhing something up. It's a strategic process that gets butts a'movin! And that's what we want in L&D, right?
So, in this corker of an episode, Han is joined by Emma Hunter, Head of Creative Centre of Competence at Capgemini (phew, say that 10 times fast!) to discuss why proactive marketing is so, so important in marketing for learning.
Links:
Han's LinkedIn
Emma's LinkedIn
2023... what a year it's been, hey? And with over 10,000 downloads of the pod this year - Han thought it was time for a round up. With clips from our 12 most listened to podcasts of 2023, this is our present to you, you pineapple-loving marketing for learning® fans. So if you want to hear clips about:
- Our marketing for learning course taster
- Han's on why marketing IS a human skill
- Why PEOPLE should be at the heart of everything we do in L&D
- How to create personas, brand promises and positioning statements
- What Pavlovs dog has to do with marketing for learning
- What Mirjam Neelan, Paula Hughes, Nick Shakleton-Jones, Edmund Monk, Serena Gonsalves-Fersch and Egle Vinauskite think of the current state of L&D.
Then grab a cuppa and settle in, because this ones for you. (Ha! Who are we kidding, it's December, get a mulled wine & a mince pie!)
A marketer? On our podcast? Wowzers. We were lucky enough to get some airtime with the Marketing Director at Manpower Group to talk about her own marketing challenges, strategy and her perspective on how employee demands are changing. Sharp, to the point and incredibly talented, in this candid conversation Laura shares her own marketing challenges (and how they're still scarily similar to L&D's). It's a good un.
Key links:
- Laura Card's LinkedIn
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- Manpower's website
- HubSpot's Academy
So, you've finally got some headcount for a marketing person to join your L&D team. HOW EXCITING!! Don't fall into the trap of hiring someone who could eventually do the job. Instead, hire a real marketer if you really want your marketing for learning® to be successful.
Cue Ashley rant
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Two years. TWO YEARS! Two whole years of the marketing for learning® podcast. So this week Ash & Han team up for a joint episode to discuss anything and everything L&D, from AI, recruitment and embracing marketing for learning (shock!)
So strap in for a great catch up with this pineapple-loving duo, and we apologise in advance for all the cackling... they just had too much fun 🥳
LINKS:
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Han's LinkedIn
- Our Website
In an uncharacteristic turn of events, Han has a bee in her bonnet in this episode. Talking (ranting) about L&D's obsession with completion rates, Han explains why learning professionals should be thinking beyond tick boxes and smile sheets – and look towards real behavioural and performance change.
Enjoy this bitesized snack for your ear'oles.
Han's LinkedIn
Wtf is Gen AI and how is it going to impact L&D? Ash was lucky to sit down with leading Gen AI expert, Egle Vinauskite, to discuss her lens on L&D and AI. How it can be used, how it might be used in the future, and the challenges that this is going to bring to us as a learning function.
Heck we even talk about the repercussions on IP and creativity. It's a goodun!
This is a meaty conversation and we all learnt a lot - GET THAT IN YOUR EAR'OLES!
- Egle's LinkedIn
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Think storytelling is just for kids? Think again! Stories make up a huge part of our everyday lives – and they should make up a huge part of your marketing for learning initiatives too! In this podcast Han covers all things storytelling. Including:
- The 5 elements of all great stories
- The Heider Simmel experiment
- Sharing some inspo from 2 incredible companies!
Happy listening!
Your fav duo are back for a joint pod on a much-requested topic: How to actually use learner personas. 🤔
Now you've got to grips with creating your personas, it's time to figure out how to actually use them in reality. So Han & Ash are here to help you navigate exactly that. Enjoy!
LINKS:
- Learner personas guide
- Han's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
Cor. What a chat. Ashley was lucky enough to be joined by Mirjam Neelen, Head of Global Learning Design and Learning Sciences at Novartis recently. Mirjam has been working in L&D for over 15 years and is an incredibly data-led L&Der - she's a champion for learning sciences and how we can use data to drive impact and make better informed decisions overall.
It's a fascinating discussion on how we structure our learning functions and how, whether using data, can actually have a positive impact on our approaches. And of course, there's some marketing magic sprinkled in 🍍
SHOW NOTES:
- Mirjam's LinkedIn profile
- Ashley's LinkedIn profile
- MAAS Marketing's website
Han's been off gallivanting in recent weeks, and in a desperate attempt to prove she actually did some work, she's recorded this podcast with her top 4 takeaways from 2 incredible networking events she attended. Including why:
- L&D need to become more customer centric
- You do need personas.
- Asking forgiveness not permission is a marketers mantra 😉
So settle in for a different kind of pod this week, but one that will get your brain juices flowing for sure!
LINKS:
- Han's LinkedIn
- L&D Disrupt Podcast from HowNow
Campaigns. Marketing. Comms. All of these things are not the same, and it's time we address their differences. In this short session, Ash explores the difference between marketing and comms and why both are essential to be part of our marketing for learning® mix.
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- MAAS' website
This is a bit of a different episode for the Marketing for Learning® Podcast. It's more of a rallying cry for more transparency in the L&D space. Ash & Han are joined by the incredible Amanda Nolen, to discuss this very important topic.
Links:
- Ashley's LinkedIn Post
- Amanda's LinkedIn Post
- ASA resources on influencer marketing
Grappling with learning a new skill such as marketing is tough - it's a broad topic and knowing where to start can sometimes be tough. Here Ash presents her recent session from Learning Live and highlights the 6 essential marketing skills that every L&Der should focus on to accelerate their functions.
Helpful resources:
- Mind Tools Report
- LPI Capability Map
- Marketing mindset episode
- Email marketing tips blog
- The importance of branding
Want to create learner personas that actually work. Well Han has a treat, just for you! This live podcast recording brings you everything you need to know to create personas that pack and punch and make your marketing 929,339* times better.
Enjoy!
*That is a very accurate number.
Useful links:
- FREE Learner Personas Guide
- Follow Han on LinkedIn
Feel like your people have too many messages thrown their way? Struggling to work out how you can cut through the noise and grab attention? Then this ep is for you!
Inspired by a question she was recently asked, Han talks you through the Hum, Sing, Shout method of marketing – and shows you how you can cut through the noise and get butts a'movin.
Happy listening!
Connect with Han on LinkedIn!
Check out the MAAS Marketing blog
FOMO. We've all had it. We've all worried that by not doing something, we're missing out on an amazing opportunity or experience. Your learners have it it too - so could this strong emotion be leveraged in your marketing for learning®?
Ashley explores the psycho-science behind FOMO and how loss aversion psychology can effectively be used in your marketing efforts.
References:
- Kahneman & Tversky Prospect Theory Research (1979)
- Loss Aversion
- NYC Mirror Viral Video (Part 1 of 2)
- TikTok FOMO Ad
- Ashley's LinkedIn
Did you miss out on our live podcast recording a few weeks ago? Well have no fear, you can catch up now! In this podcast, Han & Ash answer your questions about marketing for learning®, from "How do I persuade my stakeholders to let me market my learning?" all the way through to "How do I reach the rule of 7?" Happy listening!
Key links:
- MAAS Marketing blog
- Learner Personas guide
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Han's Linkedin
"But we don't need personas... we just segment based on data!" Sighhhh This is a line that Han and Ash are quite simply bored of hearing. So in this podcast Han shares with you why you DO need learner personas, and the different impact you'll get by targeting personas vs. job titles. Enjoy! 🍍
- Han's LinkedIn
- Your FREE Learner Persona eBook
What does marketing for learning® need in place before it can be successful? In this episode, Ash steals (that's right, STEALS) Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and adapts it to our learning world.
- Handy diagram showing MAASlow's Hierarchy
- Ash's LinkedIn
We talk to a lot of learners. Like, a lot. Undertaking loads of discovery sessions with our global customers have allowed Ash and Han to have a really unique perspective on learner sentiment. They've also learned how to undertake valuable qualitative data research - and are sharing it all with you. Happy learnings #yourewelcome
- Our website
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Han's LinkedIn
👉 July 20th, 3pm BST. Sign up here 🍍
Join this live session with Han and Ash - ask them ANYTHING (well, maybe not anything...)
Understanding your audience's decision making journey is the backbone of your marketing for learning® initiatives. In this pod, Han talks you through the AIDAL model. And explores how you can use it to work out what your people are up to, throughout their entire learning journey.
- Han's LinkedIn
- MAAS Website
David James. Ashley Sinclair. One lovely, live podcast recording. What a special episode for our 50th episode!!!
Recently Ash and David got together to chat about all things marketing for learning®, and it's our pleasure to share the entire live session with you here! Happy listening!
- Ash's LinkedIn
- David's LinkedIn
Love our podcast - then vote for us here: https://www.britishpodcastawards.com/voting
We appreciate you ❤️
What must a marketer always remember? Ash considers this topic and explores why we need a long-term view when executing marketing strategies in our L&D departments. Magic doesn't happen overnight 🤓
- Ash's LinkedIn
- MAAS' website
What's ol' Pavlov got to do with modern marketing? Well, as Ashley will show you, rather quite a lot. This short session explores the concept of classical conditioning and whether it's something L&D can leverage in their marketing to get autonomous responses out of learners.
Useful links:
- Ashley's LinkedIn
- MAAS' Marketing for Learning blog
Is marketing a human skill? It’s a question that Han was inspired to answer after The LPI’s latest Learning Live Networks event. And so she’s done just that, by having a one-woman debate live on the podcast. (We know… arguing with herself on a podcast… we always knew she was weird 🙃) But weirdness aside, Han takes a deep dive into the skills L&D needs to develop to accelerate their marketing efforts, so this is one not to be missed. Happy listening!
If you haven't heard of NSJ, where have you been? 👀 Nick's an industry stalwart and has drastically shifted how we think in L&D. He's the author of 'How People Learn" (great book btw) and is responsible for coining the ‘courses to resources’ shift, the first general theory of learning (the Affective Context Model), and is now leading the way with the 5Di (human-centred learning design) approach.
He joined Ash recently to talk about all things marketing. We were hoping for heated debates, but these two brains were deeply aligned about the changes our industry needs to make, and most importantly, why we need to be doing more great marketing for learning®. T'is a great one - and hey, look, if you don't like the content just listen in for Nick's dulcet tones.
- Nick's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
- How People Learn book
- Shackleton Consulting
Marketing doesn't start at the adverts you see. Nope, it starts way before then. And the best marketing starts with one key focus: the end user.
Considering the overlaps with Marketing for Learning, it's no surprise that we're huge advocates of UX Design in learning here at MAAS. So we invited UX Design Expert and award-winning learning designer, Paula Hughes, onto the Pod to discuss all things UX and Marketing for Learning.
It's a great listen (if we do say so ourselves), full of wonderful ideas from the mouth of an L&Der. Happy listening!
Links:
- Paula's LinkedIn
- Han's LinkedIn
- Ash's LinkedIn
- Marketing for L&D masterclass
In this unique episode, Ash talks through one of Steve Jobs's most famous talks - where he introduces their new brand campaign 'Think Different'. It's a great view of why even big brands must eat, sleep and breathe their audiences and is well worth a listen. Cheers Steve.
______RESOURCES______
- 'Got Milk' campaign
- Steve Jobs' Speech
- Ashley's LinkedIn
What needs to be in place before your marketing can be effective? Here are Ash's views on what foundations you must establish in your learning function BEFORE your marketing for learning® efforts will actually deliver results.
__________ LINKS _________
- Ash's LinkedIn
- MAAS blog
- Marketing Masterclass Course
Missed it live? Here's your chance to listen to Ash & Han talk to none other than Ed Monk (CEO, The LPI) and Serena Gonsalves-Fersch (Global Head of Talent & Academy, SoftwareONE).
In this session, these two industry heavy-weights discuss the value L&D offers to organisations, and L&D's role in employee attraction and retention. So grab a drink, sit back and settle in for 56 minutes of amazing discussion, laughs and light bulb moments.
Stay up to date, and be the first to know about upcoming live recordings, follow us on LinkedIn:
- MAAS Marketing
- Ashley Sinclair
- Hannah Waddams
We absolutely love talking to L&Ders who are getting Marketing for Learning right - and Peter Manniche Riber, Head of Digital Learning & Analytics at Novo Nordisk is no exception. Ash had the opportunity to chat with Peter about the data-led work his L&D team are undertaking and provides clear insights into how his team are using data to create personalised learning and marketing experiences.
It's a super interesting chat, jam-packed full of a brain that just approaches L&D differently. Happy listening!
Useful links:
- Peter's LinkedIn profile
- Ashley's LinkedIn profile
🤓 Liked this? Join our live podcast recording with Ed Monk and Serena Gonsalves-Fersch, Feb 21st, 3pm GMT.
Internal Comms: The two words that make every* L&Der shudder when it comes to Marketing for Learning®. But it shouldn't be that way, and in this podcast, Han tells you why.
Okay, it's a hyperbole, we know not every* L&Der feels this way. But it's a solid 99%!
Want to join our LIVE podcast recording? Sign up here!
Interested in attending our Marketing for Learning® Masterclass, but not sure if it's for you? Listen to this webinar recording from Ashley, where she explains what it entails, what's involved and what you need to do to learn more about marketing for learning®.
- If you want to watch it in video format, you can here (STRAP IN FOR PINEAPPLES 🍍): https://youtu.be/FCRbOuB7KwQ
- If you want to sign up for the Masterclass you can here: https://www.thelpi.org/masterclasses/marketing-for-ld/
Hope you enjoy it!
Last week we spoke about Brand Promises, and the impact they can have for your L&D team. And this week we're back with a way you can take your commitment to your brand promise one step further: Positioning Statements.In this episode Han covers what an L&D positioning statement is, why you need one, and walks you through the process of creating one.
Resources:
- Hubspot's guide to positioning statements
- Value Proposition Episode (Apple, Spotify)
- Brand Promise Episode (Apple, Spotify)
- Reach out to Han on LinkedIn
If you want to build trust with your audience, you have to know what you're promising them first. We see so many L&D functions struggling to engage with their audiences, sending out mixed messages and confusing comms – and a unified brand promise will stop all of that.
In this episode, Han explains what a brand promise is, why it's important, and talks you through the steps you need to take to develop one.
FUTURE L&D SKILLS AND THE ROLE THEY PLAY IN BUILDING A VALUABLE EVPFEB 15TH, 3PM GMTJoin Ashley and Hannah for this live panel discussion with Edmund Monk, CEO at The Learning and Performance Institute and Serena Gonsalves-Fersch, Global Head of Talent at SoftwareONE as we explore the employee value proposition and what skills L&D really needs to harness in order to deliver true value to the business.
It'll be full of all the usual marketing for learning fun and expertise too, so sign up today using the link below!
SIGN UP HERE
New to marketing for learning? Haven't got the time to listen back to all the old podcast episodes? Well you're in luck. In this podcast Han rounds up the top 5 takeaways from our top 5 most listened to podcasts... ain't she nice?! Enjoy!
Your favourite duo is back together to speak about their favourite marketing campaigns, and what you – as an L&D professional – can learn from them. Ash brings along a typo and a blast from the past, while Han gushes over music and branding. It's a juicy one, so strap yourself in for all the marketing for learning goodness!
Don't fall into this trap! We see so many L&D functions only creating communications and marketing for learning campaigns around specific learning programmes or experiences. In this episode, Ashley explains precisely why this is a short-term view and why it's probably doing more harm than good in the long term.
- Follow Ashley on LinkedIn
- Join her at the Learning Live Networks on Dec 7th in London
Are marketing campaigns the real secret to learning success? We think so. In this special podcast episode, Han tells you why.
This podcast was recorded live at Think Learning's client event on the 2nd November 2022. Relevant links to the freebies:
- Marketing Campaign Planner
- Learner Persona eBook
- Applying marketing in L&D blog
You know building trust is critical to connecting with audiences. In this episode, Ashley delves into why authenticity, honesty and transparency all play a role in building trust with our learners and what we might need to do to really build trust. She even threw in a few top tips that you can apply immediately to your approaches #straightinmybasket
IMPORTANT LINKS
- The pyramid of trust
- Marketing MAASterclass
Learner personas are something we talk about a lot on this podcast, so we thought it was about time we got an L&Ders point of view. Listen to the chat Han had with Elvira, Senior Community Manager - Manager Development, at Expedia Group. This pod is full of absolute gems from Elvira, that you can apply to your marketing for learning initiatives straight away #yourewelcome!
Welcome back to our podcast mini series: The Mini MAASterclass. Most of you will know that we run a 6-week training Marketing MAASterclass programme at MAAS, and this podcast series is designed to give you a flavour of each session to help you become a marketing for learning pro! In this episode, Han will be discussing the skills you need to get the most from your marketing tactics.
Additional resources:
- A guide on the AIDA Model from HubSpot
- Ash's favourite book on Storytelling – The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr.
- Han's favourite book on Storytelling – All Marketers Are Liars by Seth Godin.
Welcome back to our podcast mini series: The Mini MAASterclass. Most of you will know that we run a 6-week training Marketing MAASterclass programme at MAAS, and this podcast series is designed to give you a flavour of each session to help you become a marketing for learning pro!
In this episode, we discuss the fundamentals of a marketing strategy (they're not as scary as they sound - we promise!)
Welcome back to our podcast mini series: The Mini MAASterclass. Most of you will know that we run a 6-week training Marketing MAASterclass programme at MAAS, and this podcast series is designed to give you a flavour of each session to help you become a marketing for learning pro! In this episode, Han discussing learner personas and gives you top tips on creating your own.
FREEBIE! Download our Learner Persona eBook here.
Welcome to our first every podcast mini series: The Mini MAASterclass. Most of you will know that we run a 6-week training Marketing MAASterclass programme at MAAS, and this podcast series is designed to give you a flavour of each session to help you become a marketing for learning pro! In this episode, Han discussing a marketing mindset & why having one is paramount for the modern L&Der.
Read more about the 10 C's of a Modern Marketing Mindset, here.
What a conversation! Jam-packed with stats, data, and research, Laura Overton never fails to disappoint! In this session, Ashley and Laura discuss marketing for learning and Laura tells us what it really takes to get bold in L&D.
Relevant links:
- Marketing MAASterclass course
- 5 New Thinking Habits For a Smarter, Stronger L&D
- Embracing Change Report
- Sign up to Laura's newsletter
- Find Laura on LinkedIn and Twitter
- Learning Changemakers
L&D is going through the transformation marketing went through around 13 years ago. It’s time to start thinking about the experience, about the tech and how your people interact with it, and where it makes sense for learning to step in. And data helps us along that journey.
In this podcast, Ashley was joined by Lori and Amanda from NilesNolen. A learning consultancy that describe themselves as Mary Poppins with a chainsaw – going into companies with a dose of sugar and the goal of helping them maximise their investment in EdTech. In this chat, Lori, Amanda and Ashley focus on data and the future of L&D.
Ahhh compliance. The bugbear of many an L&D department. Isn't it time we got rid of it?
In this episode, Ash explores whether compliance training is doing more harm than good and indeed the impact it could be having on our overall learning brand. Ten sweet succulent minutes of Ashley's brain thoughts.
https://www.marketingforlearning.com/
When you think about branding, you're probably thinking about colour schemes, logo and fonts. But one thing that is often over looked is messaging.
If you have an L&D brand, what's your tone of voice? What's your brand promise? How do you position yourself? In this podcast, Han will be talking you through how to develop your own messaging framework for your L&D brand.
Check out our messaging framework template here.
Is L&D deemed an essential function in your organisation? How much would things break if L&D disappeared tomorrow?
Regardless of the answer, you need to know because these internal attitudes will affect your learning strategy, your marketing strategy and more. Ashley explores this subject more deeply today.
We're so excited to announce that our brand new Marketing MAASterclass (yeah, we made a pun out of our brand name #sorrynotsorry) is HERE. We're accepting our first cohort to kick off w/c May 30th and tickets are selling fast 🍍
More information and how to sign up here: https://bit.ly/3lmuPiJ
P.S. Soz for the shameless self-promotion. We hope keeping this separate from the episodes means you don't have to listen to our drivel if you don't want to!
Alright, you know Ashley goes on and on about our mindsets and how we need to shift and evolve it. In this episode she digs a bit more deeply into how that mindset is affecting key parts of L&D such as the curious and frankly fruitless pursuit of a single solution to our problems.
She explores data, engagement and why we need to partner more consciously with the business too. If you're facing real challenges in your L&D department, this one's for you.
www.marketingforlearning.com
If you build it, they will come. NO Kevin. No. Field of Dreams has been misleading us all, and in this episode Ashley explores why this mindset is causing us all measure of issues in L&D.
She covers how other brands are undertaking marketing, and why she believes it's absolute madness that L&D thinks creating a tech ecosystem is enough to excite and engage learners. She suggests doing pure demand generation to build trust with learners and ultimately engage with them on a long-term journey.
Bit of a ranty episode, but some good meaty chunks in there 🍖
www.marketingforlearning.com
If you want to improve your marketing for learning approaches, you must use data to test and learn more about your audience. This test > learn > iterate loop is incredibly common in the marketing world, and in this episode Hannah explores some of the simple starting points for collecting data, why it will help you improve and even what data you should start looking at.
It's 16 mins of sheer bliss 🥰
Correlation vs causation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaETnBzM7yU
Believe it or not, this L&D team does not create learning content 🤯
Ashley was joined by Alvaro Caballero, who recently headed up the learning team at ING Bank (he's since moved on to become the Head of People at DataSnipper). Al tells our listeners about the brave and bold journey his team went on, flipping L&D on its head, completely abandoning content creation and instead focusing on curation, communication and community.
ING Bank's team has been on quite a journey and Al tells our listeners his learnings, failures and what it really takes to make marketing for learning successful in a large corporation.
If you'd like to talk to Al about his experience, you can connect with him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alvarocc/
You've probably heard us chat about the value prop of your learning many, many times on this podcast. This episode is a practical walk-through to help you determine your value prop AND understand how best to communicate it to your learners using something called a value proposition canvas.
What are the features, benefits and experiences of your learning? What do you learners want, need and fear? Combine the two and the marketing magic really happens! We've even created a template that you can use if you wanted to get started on your own value prop (which we really recommend you do)!
- Here's your free value proposition canvas template
- Here's a short video that'll show you how to complete it(please note we've changed some of the labels in our template to make it more appropriate for a learning context)
Ahhh what a nice, practical episode to get us back into the game 🔥
Somehow, #marketingforlearning won at last week's Learning Awards. MAAS Marketing (the company Han and Ash run) won Start Up Learning Provider of the Year at the Learning and Performance Institute's Learning Awards.
A marketing agency just won a learning award. In this short session, Ash and Han discuss what this may well mean for the world of learning and whether progress could well be getting made. It's not tactical or practical, but instead explores the bigger picture issues our industry faces and how marketing may well be the key to overcoming them.
One thing is for sure.... marketing for learning is now most definitely a thing!
www.marketingforlearning.com
www.maas-marketing.co.uk
https://thelearningawards.com/winners/
Are your learners ignoring your comms? Could the overuse of the same imagery and approaches be causing a phenomenon called banner blindness? And what can we do to overcome it? Ash explores in this short 13 minute snack.
www.marketingforlearning.com
Want to make people believe in your learning? Engage with it? Trust it? Why not better leverage the influencers in your business? In this episode Han chats all about how L&D can use influencers (or learnfluencers, as Caroline likes to call them - we're stealing that word btw 😝) to increase reach, create resonance and increase the relevance of your learning experiences.
Sounds great, doesn't it? WHY ARE YOU STILL READING THEN? GO LISTEN YOU SCHMUCK 🤨
www.marketingforlearning.com
What does it really take to establish a proactive learning culture? Ashley was lucky enough to sit and chat with Caroline Fitzpatrick who is the Senior People Development and Learning Manager at L'Oréal UK & I. Part of a highly productive, proactive team of six, Caroline shares how the L&D function at L'Oréal have adopted a marketing mindset with their communication efforts and are utilising over eighteen marketing channels. Eighteen! She provides loads of tips, hacks and tactics which you could easily adopt in your own function today!
L'Oréal is doing marketing for learning and getting amazing results too. This success has been so great that the L'Oréal team have been shortlisted in the upcoming LPI Learning Awards in the 'Learning Culture' category. Fingers crossed you guys get gold Caroline and thanks again for the convo!
If you want to find out more, feel free to connect with Caroline on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/learningcaroline/
Did you know that your learners are more likely to trust advice and recommendations from their peers than if the same information were to come for L&D? User generated content is not a new phenomena, but it's rapidly gained popularity in marketing in recent years with the insurance of influencer marketing and review sites.
Could it be a critical component of your marketing for learning strategy? Find out with the very bestest human, Hannah Waddams.
Whether you like it or not, you already have a learning brand. Ideas about your learning exist already in your audiences' minds; do you want to own that narrative or let them make their own minds up? This episode examines why L&D needs to seriously (AND STRATEGICALLY!) consider branding as a part of their makeup. It's a doozy and you're definitely going to learn a lot!
Key timings:
- 01:35 - What is a brand?
- 02:30 - Do you need a learning brand?
- 04:07 - The brand is in the heart and mind
- 05:57 - Brands help to build trust and build habits
- 07:35 - A brand is more than a logo
- 08:27 - Connotations in our subconscious minds
- 09:38 - Why should you develop a learning brand?
- 11:58 - How do you create a brand?
- 13:55 - What do your people ALREADY think about you?
- 15:17 - Visual language tips
- 16:09 - Key takeaways
- 17:17 - Final thoughts
www.marketingforlearning.com
The word learner is quite problematic isn't it? It implies that our employees are alreadyactively learning, which isn't always the case. This word is building a very fixed mindset in L&D which makes us believe that our people wantto learn. But that isn't always the case, and these attitudes may well be holding us back.
Who are your learners and what do they really want? What grinds their gears, what keeps them up at night? If we want our Marketing for Learning efforts (and indeed our learning) to be as effective as it can be, we need to better understand our audience. Learner personas help us segment our audiences and ensure our communications are timely, relevant and effective. Hannah explores how to start creating them in this episode.
SHOW NOTES:
- Interested in finding out more? Watch our webinar on learner personas here: https://youtu.be/ZabWIdFYg34
Sales funnels? Learning? You what?! Hannah and Ashley explore how we can apply the sales funnel to marketing for learning.
If we really want to connect with our learners, we need to understand what 'buying stage' they're at. Just like marketers apply the RACE model to help them better understand and target their audiences, so can L&D use it to adjust tone of voice, content, messaging and context, depending on what level of understanding your audience has about your learning proposition.
LINKS:
- Check out the RACE framework here: https://www.marketingforlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/The-RACE-model.pdf
- User-generated content statistics: https://www.tintup.com/blog/user-generated-content-stats-2021/
If you like what we've got to say, why not follow us on LinkedIn too?
- Ashley Sinclair: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashsinclair/
- Hannah Waddams: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannahwaddams/
Don't forget to subscribe!
Struggling to get started with a new idea or concept? Hindered by analysis paralysis? That's because you're not making use of the incredibly important sh*tty first draft. It's a favourite amongst marketers; learn how to use it to be more creative.
Please note, this episode does contain swearing. A sh*t load of it.
Do you ever think about how your learners feel?Not what they do, what they think, but what they feel? Emotions are a powerful tool that marketers leverage wherever possible. How can you use emotions in your learning function to get better results?
Product, promotion, price and place. The pillars of any good marketing strategy. But what on earth do they have have to do with marketing for learning? Hannah explores.
What should a learning campaign reallylook like? Hannah and Ashley discuss the fundamentals of marketing campaigns and how some intrinsic elements of these seem to be overlooked in the world of learning.
What's in it for me? When it comes to your learners, this is the most crucial question you should be answering. Ashley talks to you about what it really means to meet the needs of your learners and target their emotional drivers for maximum effectiveness.
Adopting a marketing mindset in L&D will provide you will a wide range of benefits. Hannah Waddams and Ashley Sinclair delve into the merits of marketing for learning and why every L&Der should be shifting their thinking to incorporate marketing strategies.
Does L&D have an engagement or an awareness problem? Ashley Sinclair spends ten minutes exploring whether the root cause of most of our 'engagement' problems in L&D are actually due to a lack of employee awareness.
What is marketing for learning and what can you expect from this podcast? Our main host, Ashley Sinclair, talks you through some of the plans for the episodes to come and what we hope you'll gain from this podcast!