Making Conversations Count: Honest, relatable conversations with business leaders: Recent Episodes
Making Conversations Count (Telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris)
Conversations are behind the biggest business results.
Conversations help form the best business relationships.
Everything starts with conversations.
Telemarketing trainer and all round telephone marketing expert Wendy Harris is “Making Conversations Count” each week.
Wendy’s helping you benefit from honest, relatable conversations with business leaders and entrepreneurs.
The idea behind the "Making Conversations Count" podcast is that when they share their conversations that became the turning point for them, it’ll help and inspire YOU!
Wendy has passion for everything to do with conversations and understands the value of sharing these podcast conversations, with a goal of encouraging YOU to build your own valuable relationships.
Listen now, and one of these conversations could just change your life.
Your host, Wendy Harris is founder of WAG Associates, who has become an expert in her field of opening conversations in business and is the best selling author of "Making Conversations Count", available at Amazon!
Google “Making Conversations Count” to learn more about this podcast, and about what Wendy does to teach people the art of conversations with her business WAG Associates.
Feel free to reach out on all the social media platforms via https://linktr.ee/wagassociates
The Magic of Authentic Marketing: with TV magician Ben HanlinIn this episode, I, Wendy Harris, am talking to magician, comedian, TV presenter and now marketing agency owner, Ben Hanlin to discuss authenticity in marketing.
Ben discusses how he transitioned from performing arts to co-founding a digital marketing agency during the pandemic.
His unique selling point is his authenticity, which he brings into the agency's mission to create engaging content and be 'client obsessed'.
We discuss effective digital marketing strategy, focusing on providing value to the audience, ensuring authenticity, and giving more than selling.
We also touch on strategies for content idea generation and execution, particularly using our favourite channel, LinkedIn.
And just what do we mean when we say Elton John beats the Arctic Monkeys in a battle of the bands?...
01:13 Transition from Magic to Marketing
03:20 The Importance of Understanding Your Audience
08:15 Strategies for Successful Storytelling in Digital Marketing
14:21 The Role of Authenticity and Consistency in Content Creation
21:26 The conversation that counts
21:43 Finding Purpose in Your Work
Other related episodes we'd like you to check outhttps://makingconversationscount.com/they-ask-you-answer-marcus-sheridan/
https://makingconversationscount.com/brynne-tillman/
https://makingconversationscount.com/resource-niraj/
https://makingconversationscount.com/using-lazy-marketing-with-al-tepper/
Mentioned in this episode:
Buy my book "Making Conversations Count"
Book on Amazon
How to work with me
Power Up
Got your unique offering nailed? How important is it for businesses to have a unique selling proposition (USP)?
In the world of business, standing out from the competition is crucial.
But what truly sets you apart?
In the latest episode of the Making Conversations Count podcast, business communication coach and sales trainer Wendy Harris delves into the concept of unique offerings and how they can make all the difference.
She's joined by guest David Christian from Clearsight Strategies, and they explore the intricacies of identifying and leveraging your unique selling proposition (USP) to create meaningful conversations.
Understanding Your USP (features and benefits) Your USP is not just about being different from competitors; it's about finding your unique perceived benefit.
It's critical to understand what your customers truly care about and how they see your business.
In this episode we're discussing the importance of analysing features and benefits, as well as understanding how to align them with your customers' needs.
Discover how honing in on your USP can help you connect with your audience on a deeper level!
Putting the Customer First Customers should be at the heart of your USP.
By shifting your mindset from merely selling a product or service to actively listening to your customers, you can discover what they truly need.
This section emphasizes the importance of prioritising the customer experience and continuously striving to make a positive difference in their lives.
Understand how a customer-centric approach can help you create a stronger, more authentic USP.
"And it may be the perceived benefit that your product or service brings. It may be the attitude of you and your staff. . ..."
- David Christian, Making Conversations Count - October 2023
Timestamped summary of topics 00:00:27 Wendy and David explore discovering your USP. 00:04:06 Connecting people for peer learning, sharing experiences. 00:07:51 Better product perception through environmental consciousness. 00:11:51 Business owners doubt themselves compared to others. 00:13:41 Clarity is key in helping small businesses. 00:17:04 Busy life. Reflect. Work on happiness. 00:20:03 A listener email from Vanessa!
Sales process mastery and approaching your outbound correctly Welcome back to another episode of "Making Conversations Count" and in this episode, host Wendy Harris is going solo, bringing you a masterclass in sales process!
We're going to learn the importance of having a strategy and approach, and how it can significantly impact your sales.
Tools for managing your sales process Wendy runs through the various different tools and platforms for the many tasks involved within the sales process.
She talks about content purposing for things like LinkedIn and your email list, and explains how an effective follow-up process requires a database or sales system.
CRM system - yes or no? And what about CRM systems?
Wendy talks us through the many options available, including HubSpot, Zoho, and Salesforce and shares which one she feels could be beneficial to your own business.
So, if you're looking to make your conversations around the sales process count, join us for this enlightening episode.
We'll uncover valuable insights and strategies that will enhance your sales success.
"A simple sheet can be everything that you need it to be because you can add columns, you can data sort, you can even add First Contact, Last Contact, Next Contact columns and sort them to see how long it takes from First Contact to a sale and sort things by results. ..." - Wendy Harris, Making Conversations Count - September 2023
Timestamped summary of topics 00:02:30 Nimble as a CRM. 00:04:15 Segmenting data. 00:07:27 Use apps to schedule and track tasks. 00:10:38 Clever way to align communication, reach audience. 00:13:55 Long-term success takes time, client referrals matter. 00:17:39 Invest in what works for your goals. 00:27:27 Overcoming introversion and self-promotion awkwardness. 00:31:57 Marcus Sheridan's AI expertise and insights are food for thought.
What Is Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Growth Communication Coach & Trainer Wendy Harris who has been picking up the phone for 35+ years.
In old money she would be called a Telemarketing Consultant.
In these modern times people prefer Social Selling Trainer.
In the Making Conversations Count podcast, Wendy shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/podcast-episodes/
Offering the right messaging to our would-be customers In this episode, host Wendy Harris is joined by long time networking pal Jane Pallister.
Jane will be sharing her expertise and experiences in sales and marketing and will take us on a journey through her 23 years of business experience, from her early days in radio to her successful career as a sales consultant.
"Having that knowledge of the other person, the potential customer, means we can start matching our products and services with their needs. Because everything you do there's one of two things it either provides a gain or solves the pain. That's what we're selling, really..." - Jane Pallister, Making Conversations Count - August 2023
Building relationships and achieving success With her expertise in curriculum development and her involvement with esteemed universities and business schools, Jane has crafted a blueprint for success.
She shares her experiences in creating a core growth action plan for the renowned Help to Grow management program, which earned the approval of Rishi Sunak.
We'll delve into the importance of making conversations about features and benefits count in business and how structures and frameworks can facilitate those crucial discussions about products and services.
Jane will discuss her own creation, the FABTECA theory, which provides a clear understanding of the differences between features, advantages, and benefits.
As we know, Wendy has her own framework - "the four R formula" for achieving results.
But it's not just about sales and marketing.
Jane's work extends beyond the business world.
During the ongoing pandemic, she has dedicated herself to helping businesses navigate these challenging times.
We'll hear about her experiences, the impact she made on others, and how she managed to stay afloat when the funding for her programs disappeared.
So, whether you're a business owner looking to improve your sales techniques, an aspiring entrepreneur seeking guidance, or simply someone interested in the power of conversations, this is an episode you won't want to miss.
Get ready to learn, be inspired, and make your conversations count with Jane Pallister and the story of FABTECA on "Making Conversations Count"!
The power of structures Explore the significance of structures in facilitating meaningful conversations about products and services.
Learn how these frameworks provide reassurance, build customer confidence, and ultimately lead to successful sales.
Jane has honed her skills over her 23 years in business and sales, and she presents compelling insights on the value and criticality of structures, particularly in her domain of FABTECA.
Enjoying sales excellence We're going to learn how Jane's rich experience in sales began even before her 23 years in business.
Explore her insights into the art of conversation, the significance of active listening, and the power of identifying customers' needs before presenting features and benefits.
Discover how she incorporates the FABTECA theory in her own business operations, which provides valuable clarity around the distinction between features and benefits.
Prepare to be inspired and motivated by Jane's journey towards sales excellence.
Timestamped summary of topics 00:01:48 FABTECA explained
00:09:30 Suitcase example
00:14:06 Under promise, over deliver to build loyalty
00:16:21 Model for productive conversations
00:19:27 Jane's 20-year radio career
00:31:14 Proudly helped businesses during the Pandemic
00:33:37 Selling that pen, flight bag and features
What Is Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Growth Communication Coach & Trainer Wendy Harris who has been picking up the phone for 35+ years.
In old money she would be called a Telemarketing Consultant.
In these modern times people prefer Social Selling Trainer.
In the Making Conversations Count podcast, Wendy shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/podcast-episodes/
Building successful business relationships: the importance of shared values and identifying your niche In this episode, host Wendy Harris is joined by her guest and friend, Jenny Procter of Bondfield Marketing.
They discuss the challenges of navigating jargon in the sales and marketing industry, emphasising the importance of leading with shared values and prioritising people in business interactions and
the significance of targeting ideal clients and the value of in-person connections.
Listen in to learn more about making conversations count and effectively targeting your ideal clients.
"But this comes back to, doesn't it, people valuing what we do, that they are not the best at it themselves, but appreciate that it needs to be done." - Wendy Harris, Making Conversations Count - July 2023
Attracting attention of ideal clients Drawing the attention of ideal clients is essential for any business to succeed, and this can be done by finding a niche and connecting with them on shared values.
In this episode of Making Conversations Count podcast, Wendy Harris and Jenny Procter discuss the importance of researching a potential client's sector, creating an attractive profile and being brave when marketing oneself.
They provide valuable insight into how to make the most of unique skills and abilities to create successful marketing campaigns, and emphasise that finding a niche is a process that can take time and may change over the years.
This podcast episode is an invaluable resource for any business looking to effectively target and attract ideal customers!
Timestamped summary of topics (00:00:00) Targeting ideal clients
(00:05:35) Finding a niche
(00:10:42) Finding shared values
(00:15:57) Finding clients
(00:21:18) More on niching down
(00:26:07) Marketing for introverts
What Is Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from telemarketing and communication trainer Wendy Harris.
In it, she shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
How to Use Your Business Numbers to Achieve Success "Do you know your numbers? Do you know what a customer costs? Do you know what it costs to get a customer? Do you know what you make from a customer? What's the end cost? How much new business do you want or need? How much capacity have you got? If you know how much money you need to make and how much it will cost you, you'll also need to know how much time you're going to need to dedicate to that." - Wendy Harris, Making Conversations Count - June 2023
If you're feeling overwhelmed and uncertain when it comes to understanding your business numbers, constantly second-guessing your financial decisions and lacking confidence in setting realistic targets, then you are not alone!
Many small business owners struggle with these challenges, often resulting in missed opportunities and poor financial performance.
Instead of achieving the desired result of informed financial decisions and setting realistic targets, they may be experiencing financial stress, making uninformed decisions, and missing out on growth potential.
But fear not, there are practical steps and strategies that can empower small business owners to conquer their financial management challenges and achieve success.
You'll learn... * Grasp the key to overwhelming success by truly understanding your business metrics. * Decode the hidden technique of calculating customer acquisition costs and profits for a thriving business. * Get acquainted with the art of setting financial and time-related targets which manifest into reality. * Learn innovative techniques to research and attract potential customers all whilst improving your bottom line. * Become proficient in testing and measuring a variety of customer conversion strategies to boost your outreach.
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from telemarketing and communication trainer Wendy Harris.
In it, she shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Are you tired of feeling overwhelmed and bogged down by the complexities of running your business?
"You shouldn't be there to have to prop up your business every minute of the day. The business should be designed and structured so that it's propping up you most of the time." - Pete Mohr, Making Conversations Count - May 2023
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Are you an entrepreneur who wants to maximise profits and gain more freedom in your business?
Imagine streamlining your operations to achieve greater efficiency and success.
Discover the key to unlocking increased profits and freedom in your business, as Pete Mohr shares his proven solution for simplifying your operations and accelerating your growth.
Get ready to transform your business with streamlined processes, increased profitability, and newfound freedom.
You'll learn...
- How to unify your personal and professional objectives for better entrepreneurial outcomes
- How to master the 5 p's framework
- Simplifying your entrepreneurial journey with cross-training and delegation
Pete's links:
Pete's website
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from telemarketing and communication trainer Wendy Harris.
In it, she shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
If you're feeling frustrated and overwhelmed by the lack of progress despite your organisation's persistent efforts to embrace sustainable transformations, then you're not alone!
"How do you eat the elephant? One bite at a time. You need to take steps in the right direction consistently over time." - Ian Williams, Making Conversations Count - April 2023
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When Ian Williams first encountered the need for sustainability, little did he know that his journey would lead him to become a tireless advocate for change, inspiring people to join together in the fight for a brighter future.
But what will come of this unexpected twist in his story?
With the mainstream narrative starting to acknowledge, accept and adopt the fact that we have to do something about the environment, one individual is attempting to find solutions to have a positive impact.
But the challenge of drawing down greenhouse gases to reduce emissions presents a complex issue that may be far more difficult than we anticipate.
Can we make the change in time?
There's only one way to find out. #
Listen, as Ian C Williams gives us the answers....
You'll learn...
- The significance of personal growth in shaping cultural transformation
- The crucial role each person plays in mitigating environmental impacts
- The benefits of businesses that focus on employee well-being and personal development
- Ian’s conversation that counted
Ian's links:
Ian's email
Ian's website
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from telemarketing and communication trainer Wendy Harris.
In it, she shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Are you being realistic in your expected results? Are you headed for depression or progression? "I just want to let you know, most likely you will never accomplish what we have in the podcast industry, because we are the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. " - Kevin Palmieri, Making Conversations Count - March 2023
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Let's talk about applying 'next level' thinking to figure out how we can escape depression and enjoy progression! In this podcast episode, Wendy talks to Kevin Palmieri about his work with Next Level University, a self-improvement platform that he co-founded with his friend Alan.
Kevin shares his journey to becoming hyperconscious and how he and Alan reconnected after a falling out in high school.
He also talks about leaving his miserable job, partnering with Alan, and starting the Hyperconscious Podcast. After 450 episodes, they rebranded to Next Level University.
You'll learn...
- Wendy's plans for this podcast
- How Kevin's podcast came about
- The journey from depression to progression
- Kevin’s conversation that counted
Kevin's links:
Kevin Palmieri Instagram
Kevin's LinkedIn (although he isn't into LinkedIn!)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from telemarketing and communication trainer Wendy Harris.
In it, she shares how to use conversation to build relationships in business.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
LinkedIn is a team sport. Do you have the right players on your team? "You go further and faster, the more you work together. And so that's the thing that companies especially need to focus on is, the more people you can get involved - and I don't mean - just go and dump everyone in the deep end and say, you know, we did two hours of training, you're on your own now. Good luck!" - Michelle J Raymond, Making Conversations Count - February 2023
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Let's talk about the benefits of maintaining LinkedIn page management of your company page LinkedIn is an essential tool for businesses. We know this. Duh! I mean, it's the B2B social media platform.
It's been providing an invaluable platform to reach a vast network of potential customers and partners for coming up to 20 years now.
But most people only ever think about LinkedIn as that place you set up as an online CV.
It's been much more than that for quite some time now.
And by taking the time to create a LinkedIn company page and effectively manage it, businesses can gain an advantage in the competition for attention, leading to significant growth.
A LinkedIn company page can be used to showcase a business’s mission, values and successes, as well as providing real-time updates on products, services and offers.
But more than that, it can be used to leverage all the juicy organic reach that LinkedIn still offers via the external benefits of SEO.
Not to mention the relationships with customers and partners.
In this episode we're joined by LinkedIn company pages expert Michelle J Raymond who talks us through why we need to get on top of our LinkedIn page management!
You'll learn...
- Where to start with LinkedIn
- How to set up LinkedIn for success
- Why you NEED a company page
- Don’t be scared to repurpose your content on the page
- Michelle’s conversation that counted
Michelle's LinkedIn:
https://au.linkedin.com/in/michelle-raymond-goodtradingco
Michelle's GoodTrading website:
https://goodtradingco.com.au/
Michelle's brand website:
https://michellejraymond.com/
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Are you willing to stay S.T.I.L.L. and get focused on your money "So setting your sights is important, right? And again, most people are just reactionary. They are not asking those questions of themselves. Cuz that means you have to like, turn off the TV and sit with it, right? " - Brandon Neely, Making Conversations Count - January 2023
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Getting S.T.I.L.L. and clear with what you want to do with your money! Ahh, financial planning!
The process of creating a strategy to manage one's financial resources in order to achieve specific financial goals.
It can be a minefield if you don't get the right advice.
We've already had one financial expert on here giving some advice, but given the time of year, and amidst a recession, we figured we'd give you a fresher refresher.
Budgeting, saving, investing, insuring, and planning for retirement. Just some of the headache inducing financial considerations we need to be making to secure our futures.
And that's before we even touch on investment management, and moving around our various securities and assets, stocks, bonds, and real estate.
So that's why we need to take the lead on getting the best financial advice. And for this episode, that's coming from Brandon Neely.
You'll learn...
- The STILL method
- Robert Downey Junior’s Rolex
- All the wealth in the world
- Brandon’s conversation that counted
Brandon's Link Wealth Wisdom website:
https://www.wealthwisdomfp.com/
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
We're seriously on brand with this one. It's all about carrying on the conversation... "It can be a bit of a challenge because your whole sense of identity is being challenged, but what you're opening yourself up to is a whole world of possibility that you would otherwise just not have any awareness of... " - Rob Begg, Carrying on the Conversation - December 2022
In an area with expensive internet? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you
Mastering the mindset, going for GOLD and revisiting the cuddle monster. Sorry... what? We didn't just want this episode to be a standard episode.
It is the festive season after all (at the time of writing)
After another action packed year in 2022, we decided it was definitely about time we revisited some of our most impactful previous guests and find out what's happened with them since we chatted on the show.
We catch up with Steve Judge, Mandy Ward, and Rob Begg.
Wendy chats through with Steve and Mandy what came next for them, following the conversation that counted. And producer Neal spoke with Rob Begg to find out more about the work Wendy did with him after he blew her away with his insight during the episode.
What you'll learn from this episode of carrying on the conversation - the special Christmas episode You'll learn...
- Going for the Golden vision - with support from the Golden Gang!
- Making the difference with some impactful books
- Mastering the mindset!
Listen to the full episodes with the guests here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/steve-judge/
https://makingconversationscount.com/mandy-ward/
https://makingconversationscount.com/rob-begg/
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Do you know the business rules game? "There's three parts of every business and if you fail in any one of the three, you're going to be out of business.
One of them is the fulfillment part.
You have to deliver, produce whatever it is you're selling.
And your ability to do that will dictate whether you stay in business.
So that's why one of the eight unbreakable rules is your business plan.
What is it going to take to attract customers, sell the customers and then provide what it is you have agreed to?
And then what is the service end on the back end?
Is there a warranty, customer service, et cetera? You got to cover all of it. Thing is just that's great and that's important, but that just gets the ball rolling.
Now we got to play the game." - Sean Castrina, Making Conversations Count - December 2022
In an area with expensive internet? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you
Here's a written to be read transcript
The business rules game The business rules game has been depicted in popular culture for many years, but still nobody knows how to play it.
In this episode, Wendy talks with a man who absolutely plays the game and knows all of the business rules.
So well in fact, that he's written a book about it.
In this conversation, Wendy talks to Sean Castrina, author of "The Eight Unbreakable Rules for Business Startup Success" and host of Ten Minute Entrepreneur.
What you'll learn from this episode about the business rules game You'll learn...
- Business is solving a problem
- Being too afraid to sell
- Leading from the front
- Play the game first and enjoy the rewards later
- Sean’s conversation that counted
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about outbound sales calls done correctly that Wendy had with John Barrows Are you struggling to get your outbound sales calls done correctly? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with John Barrows all about getting your outbound calls done.
And done right?
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
During your sales calls, are you giving it the hard sell? Stop! "I hear a lot of sales influencers kind of talking about, oh, just have a conversation and don't use tactic. You don't need to use a tactic. I wish that, Wendy, I could call you and you would just pick up the phone because you figured, oh, who's going to call me today?"
John Barrows, Making Conversations Count - November 2022
In an area with expensive internet? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you
Here's a written to be read transcript
Sales calls get a bad rap from people that largely don't understand them. Or how to make them.
As a telemarketing trainer, Wendy has made more than a million during her career.
And she makes them the right way.
In this conversation, Wendy talks to John Barrows, a man who boasts quite the record, having worked with the likes of Jack Welsh (yes THAT Jack Welsh) and Jay Baitler (Staples)
You'll learn...
- ‘Enjoying’ the sales calls process
- Having ‘cool’ conversations
- No scripts please!
- Resist equity in place of comp
- Values based selling
- John’s conversation that counted (with cameo’s from GE’s Jack Welsh and Staples’ Jay Baitler)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about getting attention that Wendy had with Lux Narayan Are you struggling to keep up with the chat in your live streams? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Lux Narayan all about getting on top of the conversations in a live stream!
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Are you giving your live chat the correct structure? "So our plan is we change these live streams from a current scenario where 95% of the people are ignored to one where 95% of the people will be included. Where if someone has an answer to how are you feeling today? That answer is not going to be lost among 998 other people chatting the same thing."
Lux Narayan, Making Conversations Count - October 2022
In an area with expensive internet? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you
Here's a written to be read transcript
Live chat.
What a nightmare it can be.
And if the pandemic has taught us anything, it's that the preferred way of doing any kind of presentation or talk is now online in the live chat forum.
This week's guest is attempting to turn the live chat experience on its head, making it less awkward, less clunky, and way more fun!
Lux Narayan is the head honcho at the AI telecoms company Unmetric.
And as he explains to Wendy, his vision for the future of live chat is to bring us all closer together through conversation.
How very on brand....
You'll learn...
- Obituaries and the whole subject of legacy
- How Name, Place, Animal, Thing happened
- What do you do?
- Better questions to ask in networking
- How Lux is revolutionising live chat and YouTube
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about getting attention that Wendy had with John Follis So what's your platform? What's your content poison? 10 seconds? 20 seconds?... We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with John Follis all about getting attention for your brand!
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Is your stuff getting attention that it deserves? "What it does is it forces businesses to realize that people's attention span is very short. They probably are not going to listen or watch to a 30 minutes podcast, but they will listen to and watch a 30 second video."
John Follis, Making Conversations Count - October 2022
Psst! Click if you want to read a transcript version of the episode
Is your stuff getting the attention that you know it deserves?
When you post a video, does it get views?
When you publish a podcast episode, do people listen to it?
When you type out your thoughts, do people read them?
This is the subject of this week's conversation.
We're privileged to have a real, honest-to-biscuits, bona-fide member of the "Mad Men".
John Follis joins our Wendywoo to chat through podcasting, explainer videos, Tik Tok and Instagram.
And not just the online social stuff.
The real life social stuff too!...
You'll learn...
- John's experience with leveraging his podcast as a discovery tool before social was a thing (01m30s)
- Success is about timing (08m30s)
- Whatever platform or medium you use, you've got to get the messaging right (14m29s)
- The algorithms are constantly changing (20m11s)
- John's conversation that counted (23m30s)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Is your stuff getting attention that it deserves? "What it does is it forces businesses to realize that people's attention span is very short. They probably are not going to listen or watch to a 30 minutes podcast, but they will listen to and watch a 30 second video."
John Follis, Making Conversations Count - October 2022
Psst! Click if you want to read a transcript of the episode!
Is your stuff getting the attention that you know it deserves?
When you post a video, does it get views?
When you publish a podcast episode, do people listen to it?
When you type out your thoughts in a blog, do people read them?
This is the subject of this week's conversation.
We're privileged to have a real, honest-to-biscuits, bona-fide member of the "Mad Men".
John Follis joins our Wendywoo to chat through podcasting, explainer videos, Tik Tok and Instagram.
And not just the online social stuff.
The real life social stuff too!...
You'll learn...
- John's experience with leveraging his podcast as a discovery tool before social was a thing (01m30s)
- Success is about timing (08m30s)
- Whatever platform or medium you use, you've got to get the messaging right (14m29s)
- The algorithms are constantly changing (20m11s)
- John's conversation that counted (23m30s)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Episode 103 is all about the thing we all crave - attention!
John Follis will be chatting with us all about getting the brand messaging out there, to the right people, in the right place and in the right duration!
Bit like my four R formula...
Catch the brand new episode on Thursday.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about creating business opportunities that Wendy had with Jonathan and Renee Have you held a lounge meeting with the kids and brainstormed some business opportunities yet? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Jonathan and Renee and that you've had some inspiration for a new business venture?
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Thinking of starting a business? Why not drag the family in on it! "He (our son) pivoted out of our business pretty early on, I mean, still helps us, but he quickly found out that he could climb the ranks as far as making money."
Jonathan and Renee Harris, Making Conversations Count - September 2022
Sometimes life throws you lemons.
But imagine how much easier life could be if you had an entire squad of family members on staff to help you squeeze them?!
If you've always thought about starting your own business but don't have the first idea how to go about it - this is the episode for you.
By the time you've finished listening, you'll be treating your own family like you're Simon Cowell, and they're auditioning.
You'll learn...
- Who are Jonathan and Renee and what is “Parent their Passion”? (01m20s)
- Family struggles and avoiding the move (05m29s)
- Working the marketplace (08m30s)
- Nurturing children to win in business (18m28s)
- How do they choose (what to do)? (31m00s)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Thinking of starting a business? Why not drag the family in on it! "He (our son) pivoted out of our business pretty early on, I mean, still helps us, but he quickly found out that he could climb the ranks as far as making money."
Jonathan and Renee Harris, Making Conversations Count - September 2022
Sometimes life throws you lemons.
But imagine how much easier life could be if you had an entire squad of family members on staff to help you squeeze them?!
If you've always thought about starting your own business but don't have the first idea how to go about it - this is the episode for you.
By the time you've finished listening, you'll be treating your own family like you're Simon Cowell, and they're auditioning.
You'll learn...
- Who are Jonathan and Renee and what is “Parent their Passion”? (01m20s)
- Family struggles and avoiding the move (05m29s)
- Working the marketplace (08m30s)
- Nurturing children to win in business (18m28s)
- How do they choose (what to do)? (31m00s)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Our 102nd episode is bringing something for the family...
Jonathan and Renee Harris are teaching us how we can grow a business involving the whole family!
Catch the brand new episode on Thursday.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
We've been Making Conversations Count for more than 100 episodes Have you gone back and listened to all the actionable 'how to's? We're celebrating more than 100 episodes of this award-nominated podcast.
In case you didn't know, the podcast is all about having real honest conversations with business leaders and entrepreneurs.
And it's also celebrating the art of effective communication.
As a highly experienced telemarketing trainer and outbound sales training coach, Wendy Harris is here for you each week so you can learn the art of effective communication, and leverage the one you've already listened to.
After all, what better way to start a potentially mutually beneficial conversation than with an opening line of "hey, I heard you on Wendy's podcast..."
Who will you be carrying on the conversation with next?
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about wealth management solutions that Wendy had with Larry Sprung By now, we're hoping you've done your sums and sorted out a meeting with a financial advisor? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Larry Sprung (wealth management expert) and that you've realised it might be time to get planning for that unknown future?
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Know someone who needs to get their financial affairs in order? Share this with them. "And the reality is there is no adviser, there's no investment professional out there that has this magic bullet or magic formula that's going to get you significantly greater returns than everybody else over a long period of time."
Psst! Prefer to read than listen? Here's the transcript for you.
Larry Sprung, Making Conversations Count - September 2022
When it comes to loved ones, they should be treated like family by all
Just because you're handling money matters, it doesn't mean your family and loved ones shouldn't still be treated with dignity and consideration even by those not in your immediate family.
This episode is another 'how to' around what you need to think about and what you can expect when it comes to arranging your estate.
You'll learn...
- Who is Larry Sprung and what is Mitlin Financial?
- A family tree is literally health and wealth (6m50s) Actions speak louder than words (11m09s)
- Advice for listeners who want to be proactive (18m59s) General wealth management advice (32m28s)
- Wendy's takeaway
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Know someone who needs to get their financial affairs in order? Share this with them. "And the reality is there is no adviser, there's no investment professional out there that has this magic bullet or magic formula that's going to get you significantly greater returns than everybody else over a long period of time."
Larry Sprung, Making Conversations Count - September 2022
When it comes to loved ones, they should be treated like family by all
Just because you're handling money matters, it doesn't mean your family and loved ones shouldn't still be treated with dignity and consideration even by those not in your immediate family.
This episode is another 'how to' around what you need to think about and what you can expect when it comes to arranging your estate.
You'll learn...
- Who is Larry Sprung and what is Mitlin Financial?
- A family tree is literally health and wealth (6m50s) Actions speak louder than words (11m09s)
- Advice for listeners who want to be proactive (18m59s) General wealth management advice (32m28s)
- Wendy's takeaway
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Another actionable pillar episode of Making Conversations Count this week for our 101st full episode.
Wendy will be chatting with Larry Sprung all about how to get yourself ready for those later years.
This is literally like a free hour consult with one of the world's most respected financial planners.
Catch the brand new episode on Thursday.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about three things that make a business successful that Wendy had with... ummm everyone... Been thinking of starting a business? Wish yours was doing better? You've got everything you need in the latest full episode of "Making Conversations Count" (episode 100) to get the best possible growth in your business.
We celebrated episode 100 with a virtual 'masterclass', featuring insights from some of the world's biggest experts.
And boy did they share.
We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy shared useful conversations around the three fundamental areas of sales, marketing and strategy.
If you haven't, go back and listen.
If you did, in this bonus episode, Wendy reveals her all time favourite three guests so far.
Will one of them also be your favourite?
Will one of them be YOU?
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
By the end of this episode, you'll know the three things you need in place for a successful business "There is so much to running a business that it affects us as individuals, that it affects the people that we work with and the people that we live with.
And it's those topics that I love to explore because the whole point of the show is to bring stories, conversations and motivational inspiration for you, the listener, so that you are inspired to go and try these things out for yourself.."
Wendy Harris, Making Conversations Count - (September 2022 <100th Episode>)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Time to ramp up your business with the three things you need to know to make a business successful.. Ok, that's a huge over simplification, and we know it.
But we're all caught up in the haze of celebrations here...
It's not every day your podcast hits its 100 episode milestone, and we intend to celebrate that fully.
So, for the sake of argument, we're going to say that the three things that make a business successful are:
Sales
Marketing
Strategy
And boy have we covered those in depth on this podcast.
Over the sixty minutes of this episode, you're getting a full masterclass on running a business from the world's finest entrepreneurs and experts in their fields.
You're going to learn everything from how to make your website sell, through to attracting the kinds of customers who would buy from you in the first place.
You're going to learn how to connect with those customers.
You're going to learn how to manage your business once you have the customers buying from you.
So, grab yourself a pen and notepad and get ready to make a lot of notes.
If you want, you can always see the full transcripts of the episodes on the relevant pages on the website.
Thank you so much for being with us on this podcast, and let me know your key takeaways in the usual places.
Here's where you'll find all the episodes mentioned:
https://makingconversationscount.com/all-episodes/
You can play them all from the app you're in by searching their name.
You'll learn....
- How to get through a lifetime's worth of business knowledge in just a year
- How to get someone to hand hold you while you trade
- Using collaboration to make more profits
- How to work on your business not in it
- How you can leverage networking for finding customers
- How to do great marketing on a terrible or non existent budget
- How to make your website stand out in a crowded market place
- The content you should be putting on that website
- The kinds of connections you need to be making to get people to want to come to your website
- How to get them wanting to buy your highest value offerings
A poignant moment from the episode:
"Most companies, and I used to work with Fortune 500 companies, so they have billion dollar budgets and they're basically creating content and sending it on every platform and seeing no results. They're just "oh, great. We can do Twitter. We can do Facebook and we can do LinkedIn and we can do Snap and we can do all these things. So let's just throw content out there and see what happens." That's not content marketing. Content marketing is about the idea that I want to actually build a direct relationship with an audience member."
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count we present an hour long masterclass.
In this special 100th episode, we'll be exploring the three things that make a business successful - strategy, marketing and sales.
We'll be highlighting key takeaways from some of our 99 guests so far, who will give you specific tips on these three key areas.
Catch the brand new episode on Thursday.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about the perfect book that Wendy had with Mike Capuzzi Get that Word doc started. You've got the perfect book to write We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Mike Capuzzi (expert on shooks) and that you've planned your brilliant book?
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Do you feel that you have the perfect book inside you? Making Conversations about the perfect book Count! "Now, rather than just marketing one book to one kind of target reader, now they have three target readers and it gives them even more opportunity."
Mike Capuzzi, Making Conversations Count - (September 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
We're here to get you all shook up! Have you ever thought to yourself that you'd love to get cracking on writing the perfect book to showcase your knowledge and skills as an author?
Haven't we all.
I know our host Wendy Harris did, because she's already released hers.
Here's the link to it on Amazon.
But most of us probably abandon the idea when we realise how big a task it is to write our first book and become an author.
Or is it?
Maybe you need to listen to this episode so you can hear how guest Mike Capuzzi helps authors to get not just one, but three books out on the market.
You'll learn....
- Who is Mike Capuzzi and what’s his TV history? (1m15s)
- Wendy’s own experience writing a book (5m48s)
- All about the shooks (9m57s)
- Real world examples of shooks (12m34s)
- What do you want the book to do for you? (15m21s)
- Back to books with Brad Sugars (22m07s)
- Dog Joy (25m00s)
- Mikes’s conversation that counts (30m50s)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"I think in this day and age, with the fact that there are short tweets and short tik tok videos and all this stuff, which I really don't know a whole lot about, but my kids do same attention spans are shorter. You and I were talking earlier, it's amazing about multitasking. Can we do this, that and the other thing. So the power of giving someone we're talking a traditional paperback book, they jump on a plane and let's say New York City, and by the time they land in Chicago 2 hours later, they're done the book."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count we talk to Mike Capuzzi who's literally (excuse the pun!) going to blow your mind and change your life.
He'll talk you through how it's not only possible, but likely that you could become a published author by the end of this year.
Catch the brand new episode on Thursday.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Carrying On The Conversation about making a real human connection that Wendy had with Simone Heng Ditch that social junk food! We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Simone Heng (expert on human connection) and that you've done your challenges?
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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What are you doing to make real human connection? Making Conversations about human connection Count! "Digital connection is the junk food version of real connection. So you must have boundaries within yourself that your digital following is not the same as your friends and family.."
Simone Heng, Making Conversations Count - (September 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Avoid digital junk food and make REAL human connections! How much are you doing to proactively maintain the connections in your life?
Are you hiding behind your device's screen all day, every day, or are you actually making appointments to take your conversations out into the real world.
Doing so is far more important than you might think.
For one thing, it helps you to avoid loneliness.
Simone Heng is an expert in human connection and has written a book called The Secret Pandemic.
She's also delivered a talk at Google.
It's a book that's all about keeping real connections in the lonely era of an internet first community.
Wendy and Simone discuss the importance of human connection in a very internet-centric 2022.
You'll learn....
- Human connection with social beginnings
- Keeping your head down and staying safe
- Loneliness is always seeking the engagement
- Challenges of having a purpose
- Simone’s conversation that counts
A poignant moment from the episode:
"In the book, I give this connection challenge to go through your most used messaging app in your phone, whatever that's WhatsApp. Maybe use SMS or Facebook and just go through the DMs and scroll back and think, who have I not heard from in the last six months to a year on this? And the names will pop up jog your memory. And the second source think about who tends to self isolate. So we all have friends who are introverts to extroverts on a spectrum and your introverts will tend to have made the pandemic an excuse to go deeper within themselves."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count we talk to Simone Heng who's an expert on making human connections.
She'll be explaining how important it is for us to spend a little less time on social media and a little more time on building our in real life relationships, and maybe even networking.
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about learning how to take control of your life that Wendy had with Blaine Oelkers Pop that new photograph on your phone's unlock screen and let's get started taking control of your life! We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Blaine Oelkers (mindset master behind Selfluence and friend to Jim Rohn) all about helping you figure out how to take control of your life by taking regular mind showers!
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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What have you done to take control of your life? Making Conversations about taking control Count! "I like to tell people who are stuck with a lot of head trash that the solution to pollution is dilution...."
Blaine Oelkers, Making Conversations Count - (August 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Hey, take a mind shower! Are you looking for a way to take control of your life?
Are you struggling with negative thoughts and behaviours that are holding you back?
Blaine Oelkers is here to teach us how easy it is to take more control of our own lives just by getting rid of our head trash!
He brings a lot of incredible food for thought and reminds us of our powerful conversation with Brad Sugars, thanks to his high praise of Jim Rohn.
And Rob Begg had some interesting related words of wisdom too!
So, take control of your life by breaking familiar patterns and getting rid of your negative thoughts and behaviours with a regular mind shower!
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast in which we talk all about the art of learning how to take control of your life!
You'll learn....
- Blaine and his TEDx Talk (1m02s)
- Chief Results Officer? (3m47s)
- Observations of business owners and entrepreneurs who struggle with results (12m19s)
- Change doesn’t happen quickly enough but stick at it because it’s worth it! (23m25s)
- Blaines’s conversation that counts (30m13s)
- Wendy's takeaway
A poignant moment from the episode:
"If you want to change your happiness, you can compare yourself. Right. So if my ego is getting too big, then my wife can say, well, how much money does Oprah make every year? Okay? Yeah. I'm very small. But the opposite is also true, is if I'm feeling down, my wife can say, how many of your friends have no job and the freedom that you have. Right. In that comparison, you can regulate your happiness, but for your results, it is best to compare you to you. Right. Let's just better your best. And for me, this definition of success is kind of you moving towards your goal, whatever that is. So it's very personal, whatever that personal goal is. And if you find yourself in this situation, you can begin to move out of that situation and celebrate just maybe those first steps out of that situation. Right, so you're comparing yourself to you."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-a
Carrying On The Conversation about professional etiquette that Wendy had with Kristi Spencer Come on now. Straighten your back. It's not polite to slouch. And don't swear!! We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Kristi Spencer (the etiquette consultant) all about ensuring you have professional etiquette in everything you do.
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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How important do you think etiquette and manners are in the workplace in 2022! Making Conversations about professional etiquette Count! "You never know who you're going to offend. It's just never okay. And it's really a good practice for people to get in to just not just don't say those words...."
Kristi Spencer, Making Conversations Count - (August 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Professional etiquette in the workplace. Is it as important in 2022? That's the question we're asking in this week's episode.
Our guest is etiquette expert Kristi Spencer from The Polite Company.
We discuss how etiquette seems to have become less of a priority for the increasingly informal younger generations that are coming up.
Is the use of politeness in the office and business environment still as relevant now in the modern age of tattoos and loose clothing?
Do we still need to worry about how much we swear when our potential employees and customers are seeing us getting drunk on our social media profiles anyway?
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast in which we talk all about etiquette and manners!
You'll learn....
- Who is Kristi and what does she do? The three principles of professional etiquette (1m12s)
- How has online working changed professional etiquette? (7m26s)
- How Kristi helps people in business (10m45s)
- The one thing entrepreneurs can do, today! (23m31s)
- Kristi’s conversation that counts (30m09s)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"You're halfway afraid to go on an airplane and say anything to anyone for fear that you're going to be on YouTube the next day or all over the news because somebody's going to... we're in a time now that is very precarious. I mean, our feelings are just we're wearing them on the outside and I think people are easily agitated, offended, all of those things, but we just eat it up as a society."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about public speaking that Wendy had with Tyler Foley How do these people (who do public speaking) do it?!! We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Tyler Foley (child actor and author) all about the process of getting prepped and ready for public speaking.
In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from all the insight contained within the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
How public speaking coaches can change your life! Making Conversations about selling on Amazon Count! "Wendy.. if you were to do your podcast the next time, sitting on your hands and never move, people would be like, what is wrong with this episode? They wouldn't know, right? They couldn't see, but they would feel that it was just a little off...."
Tyler Foley, Making Conversations Count - (August 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Public speaking is one of the most terrifying things you can do... Or so a lot of people believe.
But they haven't spoken with Sean Tyler Foley.
He's a child actor turned author and public speaking coach, and he has a quite incredible story to tell about the time he met Freddy Krueger.
If you think that sounds unusually impressive, wait until you hear how he's also sharing stages with Tony Robbins!
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast in which we talk all about how public speaking coaches can literally change your life!
You'll learn....
- Freddy vs Jason (1m13s)
- What Tyler does now (4m10s)
- Everyone says you need to sell the benefits. It's actually more about selling the solution! (8m30s)
- Tyler's favourite family trip (13m39s)
- Mannerisms. Hmmmm… (26m10s)
- Tyler’s conversation that counted (39m50s)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"..You know, you look at anybody who has any form of sensory deprivation, and then you have those heightened senses when you can only rely on the audio. It's amazing the cues that you can pick up on. And as you said, our brain is finely tuned to it. You know when somebody is smiling on the phone, you know when they're having a bad day. And it goes the other way, too. I've talked to people about this with energy work. We know when there's been a fight in a room, even if we've never witnessed the fight, you've walked into that room and people were like and then you get that link. You're like, oh, what is with that? And you're like and you become hyper sensitive and aware of you're walking on eggshells a little bit, because what did I just walk into? You didn't witness a fight. There was nothing you didn't see. You don't know. But you know that something went on. And we as human beings have a far better connection with each other than I think we give ourselves credit for."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Speaking in public is an activity that drives fear through the hearts of even the strongest of strong individuals.
Some would probably claim to rather jump out of a plane mid flight than speak on stage.
That's why this episode coming on Thursday will likely be of interest because the guest is an expert in public speaking.
And general communication.
And as you'll hear, a lot of Tyler's stage skill melds with his skills as a father. And the learning continues at home with his family.
This episode will be in your favourite podcast app on Thursday.
Make sure you're following so you don't miss it!
Carrying On The Conversation about selling on Amazon that Wendy had with Lesley Hensell How much money can you actually make selling on Amazon? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Lesley Hensell all about setting yourself up as a seller on Amazon using the FBA reseller process.
She gave us a lot of tips, including some of the things we need to be mindful of when it comes to fake reviews.
And how you can stand out from the noise, and sell stuff that nobody else has just by approaching it uniquely.
She also talked about how her brand Riverbend Consulting can help people who have been banned from selling.
We discuss our takeaways from all the insight contained within the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
What kind of money can Amazon sellers make from the platform. And what is their strategy? Making Conversations about selling on Amazon Count! "...There's a shady side of Amazon. There are sellers on Amazon who use what we call black hat tactics, including going after other sellers. It can be a difficult place. ..."
Lesley Hensell, Making Conversations Count - (August 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Selling on Amazon is not quite the mystery that the successful sellers would have you believe... Ask anyone who has a part time drop Amazon FBA seller business (drop shipping) what tactics they use to get sales and they'll probably be less than willing to share any insight.
Selling on Amazon is a very competitive game.
That's one of the reasons why we're so shocked that Lesley Hensell has been so willing to spill the tea on this for us.
We can't promise you a six figure ecommerce business just from listening to it.
But we certainly can promise you the insight and knowledge you'll need in order to make the right decisions on how to start or grow your business selling on Amazon.
So if they're successful, how much do Amazon sellers make? Let's find out!
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast in which we talk all about the secrets of selling on Amazon!
You'll learn....
- Who is Lesley and what does she do?
- What is the first thing anybody's got to do if they're thinking about using Amazon as a platform to sell their products? (7m50s)
- The most common challenge in Amazon selling (14m07s)
- Things listeners should know about selling on Amazon (27m17s)
- Lesley's conversation that counted (30m48s)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"..The first thing to think about is that even though it is a virtual business, it is running online. You have to set it up the exact same way you would set up a traditional business. You cannot say, oh, just because I'm running this out of my house or my basement or the back of my storefront, that it's not a real business. You need to register your business, you need to set up good bookkeeping, you need to have a tax accountant, you need to set up that, if that's relevant, where you are located. You have to do all of the right things because the pitfall a lot of newer sellers fall into is that they will not know their numbers, so they won't find out if they have made or lost money until they close the books at the end of the year. They don't close their books monthly, they don't track their expenses well...."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count we talk to Lesley Hensell (from Riverbend Consulting) who is an expert on helping people with selling on Amazon.
She will be explaining the most common places that people get stuck, and advising us on how to stand out from every other seller by listing things that people actually want to buy!
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about using silence in sales calls that Wendy had with Catherine Brown The real psychology of selling? Shut up! ;) We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Catherine Brown all about ramping up your success with your sales calls by using silence.
She also talked about what she learned from social audio apps like Clubhouse!
We discuss our takeaways from all the insight contained within the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
While prospecting, are you keeping your silence in sales calls? Making Conversations about silence in sales calls Count! "...my research shows that both business owners as well as the full time sales professionals they hire all, when polled anonymously, all will reveal that they feel that the sales profession is pushy and a little bit embarrassing and they are concerned about how they will be perceived in the sales process..."
Catherine Brown, Making Conversations Count - (July 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
The secret of successful selling? Everyone has something to say about it... If you are in business, and want to grow, you absolutely need to listen to this episode. That's really all there is to it.
Because it reveals something that a lot of people get wrong when it comes to doing their sales and outreach.
They're not understanding the mission at hand.
Catherine Brown shares a lot in common with Wendy.
For one thing, she also started out in telemarketing. But more than that, she understands the power of a conversation.
And she knows how to use it to convince people to buy what it is you're selling.
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast in which we talk about the science of silence in sales calls!
You'll learn....
- The evolution of sales
- Catherine is another bold one and explains the real psychology of sales
- Why sales people don’t want to sell
- The science of silence in sales calls
- Catherine’s conversation that counted and why she’s now grateful for rejection
A poignant moment from the episode:
"...During Covid, I started hosting rooms and following different people around. Social Audio apps. I don't even know all the names anymore, but Social Audio, when I say that, I mean there's a face and some of the apps have a group chat where people type, but there's no video. You don't see anyone. And so the way you run a room when you only have audio felt to me like, this must be what it's like to run a radio talk show where someone calls in and you don't know what they're going to say. You give them a chance to speak and then you have to decide how to manage it. But what I observed and learned that I brought to my zoom calls, I brought to sales calls, I brought to speaking on stages, things like that, is that the best people who run rooms are measured and their use of silence is strategic..."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about finding your passion and purpose that Wendy had with Nicola Buckley How did the pandemic affect you? Do you feel enough? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Nicola Buckley all about finding your passion and purpose.
We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode.
If you haven't yet heard the full episode, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Are you finding passion and purpose in everything you do? Making Conversations about finding passion and purpose Count! "...how do we create time and space for you, given your life. Given your family. Given the role that you have. How do we create time and space for yourself?"
Nicola Buckley, Making Conversations Count - (July 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Leadership. It's a bit like a coat you know... This is one of those real rollercoaster conversations our podcast has become known (and award-nominated 😉) for!
There are a lot of voices out there, that are speaking on leadership. And not just in podcasting.
There are Ted talks, YouTubers and even multi-million dollar platformed public speakers and authors who all have their own perspectives to share on leadership.
But we wonder how many of those have had to face the very unique and down-to-earth question of "am I enough,"
After listening to this episode, you'll perhaps feel inspired to ask yourself a similar question. And maybe you'll even head out and get yourself a 'scratty' little white dog named Sam.
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You'll learn....
- Nicola’s catchphrase (and its impact on Wendy)
- Nicola’s advice for taking positive steps
- Moving forward from Covid as individuals
- How leadership can be like a coat
- Nicola’s conversation that counted
A poignant moment from the episode:
"...it's almost like a perception gap when they first start working with me. How they see themselves versus how others see them. And actually, just being able to close that perception gap and then saying "Oh. My gosh. I'm a real expert at this." Or "I'm becoming the CEO's right-hand woman. They come to me to ask my opinion on things." And I had a really brilliant client I worked with for a long time, and she was invited to the board a couple of years ago. The exec board. And she was saying that first of all, it felt like we did a lot of work together on ourselves. We did a lot of work on a leadership style. We just went really deep on stuff. And she did the work, she really focused on it. And as a result, when she went into that role, she's kind of, in a lot of ways, already doing it. There were some changes she had to make in a team, so for people to step up, to give them more freedom, to be more strategic. But she said, I feel like I'm putting on a coat and that coat didn't really fit at first and it's a beautiful coat I love, and I love the colours, but at first it didn't quite fit me. It was feeling a bit off. It felt like it was almost a little bit too much for me. But now when I go into those meetings..."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about working on your business not in it that Wendy had with Nick Cramp Don't you think your life would be easier if you were able to work on your business rather than in it? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Nick Cramp all about making your business better before bigger. We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. There's no point scaling your business until it's in a position to be scalable! And that's exactly what Nick Cramp helps business owners to do!
If you haven't yet heard the full episode, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Are you working on your business not in it? Making Conversations about better before bigger Count! "I think business owners can learn a lot from sport and look at that analogy.
If you want to play at the top level, you've got to also give yourself periods to recover, regroup, rethink and all those lovely re prefixes that are really important."
Nick Cramp, Making Conversations Count - (July 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
It's one of the most important questions to ask yourself. Are you working on your business or in it? This is the most important KPI for any business owner to understand and measure.
How much time you're spending 'doing' the business rather than growing it.
Nick Cramp is an expert on this.
He's all about getting better before bigger.
In other words, nurturing the business so you can scale it.
After listening to this episode, you'll understand what your own status is, and then hopefully apply that knowledge to grow it to where you need it to be.
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You'll learn....
- What Nick does
- Working on your business not in it
- Good rules and habits
- Nick's conversations that counted
A poignant moment from the episode:
"I think right now, all leaders need to be stakeholder focused. They need to be spending time and giving enough time for the depth of conversation with those different stakeholder groups. So whether that's employees, whether that's suppliers, whether that's contractors and customers, it's actually entering to a two way dialogue and saying right now, Wendy, right now, given everything's happened, how are you feeling? What do you need from us right now? What does this look like? What have we learned together? Because that's what we need to do is we need to reinvent the relationships at that next level up. Do we actually need to get together and meet or can we do all our business on zoom is a really relevant question for a lot of us right now, isn't it?"
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about your ideal customer profile that Wendy had with Paul and Shreya Do you have the right foundations in your business? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Paul and Shreya and covered all aspects of ICP sales. We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. Getting your ideal customer profile figured out can make the difference between a thriving business and a surviving business!
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Do you have the ideal customer profile of your target clients? Making Conversations about Marketing Counts, Count! - Even the title suggests it's meant to be! "The mindset is probably half the battle. Too many people, even in marketing, they take their advertising campaigns, they shut them down too early... discredit ideas. And sometimes you're not following the right process. It's not that marketing does not work. You're not following the right process."
Paul and Shreya, Making Conversations Count - (July 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Are you spraying and praying with your marketing? It's time to stop that. In order to seriously succeed with your business, and actually scale it, you need to get some things figured out first.
One of those things is your ICP.
Your ideal customer profile.
Get this bit wrong, and you'll be marketing to everyone and selling to no one.
Thankfully, this week's episode guests are experts at this stuff.
After listening to this episode, you'll understand why you need an ideal customer profile, how to figure it out, and what you can do to make that new client avatar work for you and your best results!
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You'll learn....
- Why most people get the basics wrong
- How to resonate differently for different clients
- Why it's important to try to do yourself out of a job
- Paul and Shreya's conversations that counted
- Their advice for new and recently started entrepreneurs
A poignant moment from the episode:
"One of the key concepts we teach is creating your customer avatar. ICP. Unfortunately, if you're starting a small business, you don't do this because you think about everything else. But you don't start at the basic. You don't start at the letter A. Right. So creating your customer avatar, figuring out who that person is, we actually name it. You could have like 20 different personalities. For example, maybe you sell toilet paper. Toilet paper is for everybody. So how do you market to your key person? But there are different segments even within the toilet paper market. So some people might want the cheapest out there, some people might want the most comfiest out there. Well, those are two different customer profiles, and you're going to have to decide. We name it, name them Sally and Matt. And Matt wants the softest one and Sally wants the cheapest one. And then when you're speaking and designing marketing materials, you're specifically creating stuff for Matt that's going to speak to him. And even as an individual, I could do that. Even as a solopreneur or influencer, I could talk directly in one channel to Matt and then another channel on a different page, different landing page, different part of my website. I could talk to Sally at two different approaches. They're still getting the information...."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about legendary emotional support for business owners that Wendy had with Tommy Breedlove Do you feel emotional support in your business? Are you being given the space to prioritise your business? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with Tommy Breedlove - the Legendary author (literally!) We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. It's not easy running a business, particularly when the business is just you.
That's why this week's episode guest brought so much value.
Taking you on a mindset journey of how to get that right level of emotional support so you can thrive against all the odds.
And he would know all about that!
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Looking for legendary emotional support? Who better to get it from than a man who overcame self-sabotage, twice? Making Conversations about legendary support Count! "When I started working on my inner game, my mental game, my emotional, my spiritual game, in three years, I went from a junior partner in the firm, to a senior partner, to an owner, to running the international practice. And my income doubled..."
Tommy Breedlove, Making Conversations Count - (June 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
It's not easy running your own business when you have to balance it with family. Thankfully, this episode's guest is an expert on emotional support.
Tommy Breedlove has literally written the book on running a business when the odds are stacked against you.
And he's an expert on it.
Having overcome self-sabotage, twice, he knows a thing or two about being legendary.
After listening to this episode, you'll understand how the only thing limiting you and your success, is your willingness to work on yourself.
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You'll learn....
- Pain and humble beginnings: the legendary origin story!
- Prioritise your business
- Tommy’s advice for entrepreneurs starting out
- Tommy’s conversations that counted
A poignant moment from the episode:
"I think wisdom comes with maturity. I think lightning up on ourselves comes with maturity. And what I want people to hear is, no matter what you're going through, whether it's relationship challenges, success challenges, business challenges, life challenges, family challenges, children challenges, is they're not alone and we believe we're alone, we believe we've got to do it on our own. And we think our thoughts, our crazy thoughts that are in our head and we all have them. That's that story that we tell ourselves is that you're not alone and that you can choose something different today than you chose yesterday and write the ending to your story..."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Are you getting enough emotional support in your business? Making Conversations about legendary support Count! Make sure you're all set to continue making those conversations count this Thursday as we're joined by author and business consultant Tommy Breedlove.
If you enjoyed "The Wolf of Wall Street" you'll enjoy this.
You’ll hear: Pain and humble beginnings: the legendary origin story!
Prioritise your business
Tommy’s advice for entrepreneurs starting out
Tommy’s conversations that counted
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about client acquisition systems that Wendy had with Michal and Ana Bohanes Do you have a system for onboarding and managing your clients? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke to Alpha Lead Academy founders Michal and Ana Bohanes. We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. When it comes to working with your clients, finessing your offering (the thing you do) is just the start.
Everything needs to have a process.
And that's exactly what husband and wife team Michal and Ana Bohanes help their clients to sort out.
Wendy spoke with the pair on the most recent episode of Making Conversations Count.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Carrying On The Conversation about the British Podcast Awards nomination that Wendy had in the category 'Bullseye'! (You'll have to scroll to the bottom of the page in that link.
We're one of the BIGGEST categories.
Just saying.)
This special episode has been recorded in acknowledgement of YOU, the listener to "Making Conversations Count". We bring you Wendy and producer Neal discussing their reaction to the incredible news. You'll forgive us, right?
We're just a little excited about this.
As we revealed on a recent episode Wendy spends a small fortune on keeping this podcast going.
And this week, it all felt even more worthwhile as the podcast has been critically recognised as a podcast that's "producing exceptional listening experiences for niche audiences and those underrepresented in other British media", according to the description on the official page.
We think that warrants this extra special bonus episode of "Making Conversations Count", right?
"Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
How's your client acquisition system? Who in your team plays good cop, bad cop? Making Conversations about client acquisition Count! "You do need to connect with people on a human level. I'm not a fan of spamming and doing just cold call where you just pitch them right away, none of that. But it is also a numbers game."
Michal Bohanes, Making Conversations Count - (June 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Are you giving enough thought to being a good cop and a bad cop and dealing with mind weeds? Michal and Ana Bohanes deliver a double punch of business excellent insight in this episode.
There's a lot of ground covered, which is hardly surprising given that there are two incredible minds behind it all on this week's episode.
After listening to this episode, you'll be challenged on all aspects of your own client acquisition systems.
We won't give too much away, but let's just say that the customer journey doesn't stop once the client is on the call with you....
Enjoy this new episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You'll learn....
- Good cop, bad cop! Ying and Yang!
- Mind weeds and clover take over
- Sorting out the boundaries
- Michal and Ana’s conversations that counted – (and why Michal closed the door!)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"So this is where the concept of creating an alter ego comes in, because, for example, I will be doing a call with one of our clients and we will be talking about miscarriage, because the power of being able to reframe what happens to you in life is going to be the main fuel that can really kick start you into getting into action and reframing how something negative can really be the positive for you. So instead of being stopped when you're having a face in your life with your wife, where things are just not working out, all right, how can I use this to my advantage? How can I flip this? How can I reframe this so that I can be a different person, be a different partner to my wife so we can get through this? Instead of, oh, my marriage is probably going to fall apart, so I should just focus on my energy, on business. How is that going to help? You went through a miscarriage. How can you reframe laws to feed the fire and help you move forward? Instead of you being stuck in the victim mentality, you change your story and you say, I'm stronger. You're going to create that alter ego where the alter ego is going to have those qualities that we might not directly describe ourselves as now. So the moment we might be feeling that we're weak, I'm weak, I'm at a loss. My body, what is happening with me? Instead of doing that, you flip that around and you think, what are those qualities that can really elevate those things that I'm feeling right now? So you flip things to your advantage and then you're able to use that energy, use that alter ego.."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about podcast growth that Wendy had with Travis Chappell Do you have your own podcast? Or are you planning one? We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke to Guestio founder Travis Chappell. We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. Let's not sugar coat this.
Wendy spends a small fortune on keeping this podcast going.
Guess who benefits the most from that?
It's not Wendy.
Yes, Wendy gets to continue establishing herself as subject matter expert (did you know she's the leading telemarketing trainer for the UK?) and she gets to share tips and insights to that end.
But that's only going to feather her nest if people she's educating follow through and book her services.
So what about the rest of the time?
When a guest comes on to "Making Conversations Count", they're not there just to be nice and have a conversation. They also want to sell something.
Whether that's reputation, or an actual product.
So why shouldn't we, as podcasters, start seeing some more immediate return on our investment?
That was the point of the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count".
Wendy spoke with speaker Travis Chappell.
Travis runs Guestio which you can sign up for by clicking this.
In this bonus episode, Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned from the episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Do you know how much money podcasts make? Does your own podcast make you money? Making Conversations about podcast growth Count! "You have dozens of these podcast booking agencies, and I'm friends with a lot of them. Again, they stepped into a problem and they built the solution for the problem. But by doing that, I think there was another problem that was generated, which was the fact that the podcaster wasn't getting paid."
Travis Chappell, Making Conversations Count - (June 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
If after listening you feel you want to sign up for Guestio, click here to do so.
Is there a better way of monetising your podcast? Travis Chappell thinks so.
He's come up with a solution that he hopes will help indie podcasts to continue investing in producing professional and polished content but cover those costs with the podcast itself.
Podcast marketing can be a bit of a catch-22.
You know it's good for your brand, but it costs you money up front and can take years of consistency before you'll even see results.
After listening to this episode, you'll be informed of a potential opportunity to help with the issue of financing your growth.
As you'll learn from this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, there's more than one way to monetise a podcast!
You'll learn....
- Why fight with bigger podcasts for great guests?
- Podcasters do all the work for none of the pay
- How much money do podcasts make?
- Travis’ conversation that counted – (and how he hates being comfortable!)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"There's kind of this almost like taboo attitude about it from a lot of people where it's like, "well, I would never pay for a guest" or "I would never pay to go on a show". And I'm just always curious as to why? It's not anybody's fault. It's not like they're just small minded. It has nothing to do with that. It's just like that's how the industry was portrayed for the last few years. Like I said, it's treated as a form of PR. The difference is if you go get an article in NBC or Forbes or whatever, they're still going to make all their money this quarter. They're not dependent... like, they don't also have a nine to five that they're working on the side."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
We've seen huge growth on this podcast since we started. But could we do more? Making Conversations about podcast growth Count! Make sure you're all set to continue making those conversations count this Thursday as we're joined by podcast growth strategist Travis Chappell.
You’ll learn: * Why fight with bigger podcasts for great guests? * Podcasters do all the work for none of the pay * How much money do podcasts make? * Travis’ conversation that counted – (and how he hates being comfortable!)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about artificial intelligence that Wendy had with Allister Frost Have you recovered from the cerebral cluster-bombing that was Allister Frosts guest appearance on "Making Conversations Count" yet? Us neither. We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. We're not facing an "if artificial intelligence will be a dominant species debate" now.
It's a when.
It seems Elon Musk may get his wish to have us all abandon earth and head to the safety of Mars if Allister's predictions have anything to do with it!
How can humans keep up with the looming rise of the machines and avoid irrelevance.
That was the point of the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count".
Wendy spoke with speaker Allister Frost.
In this bonus episode, Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned from the episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Do you lose sleep over artificial intelligence? Do you think it will win the battle with human intelligence? Making Conversations about keeping up Count! "We have renewable forms of energy. We've learned about wind and sea power and stuff like that. But robots, when they apply their minds, actually, they might uncover something completely different?"
Allister Frost, Making Conversations Count - (June 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Is there really a battle of artificial intelligence vs human intelligence? Allister Frost is a very smart man.
He's got a lot to say in this episode.
Yes, about AI (or as we know it - artificial intelligence) and the dawn of something called artificial general intelligence.
But also about a range of other subjects too.
Including, what really is the post-pandemic 'new normal', how Buddhism can play a part in business success, and just how rad soap is!
As you'll learn from this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, there's far more hidden away from us in life than a robot vac and some bath time bubbles!
You'll learn....
- The ‘new normal’
- What is artificial intelligence, really?
- The future of AI and ‘artificial general intelligence’ that passes the Turing test
- How Allister applies Buddhism in his work
- The genius of soap
- Allister’s conversation that counted – (and some brilliantly simple business advice for any business owner!)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"It's about recognising that your comfort zone, the sort of safe, easy life that you created for yourself. It's nice, it's cosy, but it won't exist in the future because things are going to change. Now, you have a choice. You can wait for change to happen to you and you'll kind of have to roll with it. Or you could be more Proactive in your life and try to explore those changes that would be beneficial to you and your family and the lifestyle you wish to have."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Are you worried about the AI technology future and how you can avoid becoming obsolete? Making Conversations about how to keep up Count! Make sure you're all set to continue making those conversations count this Thursday as we're joined by AI expert Allister Frost.
You’ll learn: * The ‘new normal’ * What is artificial intelligence, really? * The future of AI and ‘artificial general intelligence’ that passes the Turing test * How Allister applies Buddhism in his work * The genius of soap * Allister’s conversation that counted – (and some brilliantly simple business advice for any business owner!)
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
Carrying On The Conversation about collaboration that Wendy had with Dave Plunkett Have you taken Dave's advice and thought about the right kind of collab for you yet? We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. The perfect business partnership is out there for you.
It really is.
All you need, is help finding it.
That was the point of the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count".
Wendy spoke with collaboration junkie Dave Plunkett.
In this bonus episode, Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned from the episode.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Do you have a small business? Thought about collaboration? Making Conversations about collaboration Count! "I think, particularly when you're really busy, it's the commercial piece, but also the fun piece. Are you going to enjoy it?"
Dave Plunkett, Making Conversations Count - (June 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
What is collaboration and what does this episode discuss around it? Dave Plunkett is known as the collaboration junkie.
To say he's an expert on collaboration is a bit of an over simplification but that's exactly what he helps people with.
His mission is around helping people have more fun in their business by helping them organise dream partnerships.
However, as you'll learn from this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, not every collaboration is meant to be, as Dave explains!
You'll learn....
This episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which Dave Plunkett shares his expertise on small business collaboration talks about:
- What is collaboration?
- Collaboration has to be fun!
- The origins of the collaboration junkie
- Dave sees collaboration in everything
- Dave’s conversation that counted – (and the journey he took to becoming a collaboration junkie!)
A poignant moment from the episode:
"And this is collaborating, in a sense as well, around why it's so important to be a part of a network, a community of some sort, when you're an owner managed business. And whether that's with your partners or collaborators, or whether it's a properly organised kind of community or network, just knowing that you've got people that you can talk to about the good stuff and the bad stuff kind of thing, it's vitally important."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Carrying On The Conversation about learning how to be bold and feel confident that Wendy had with Fred Joyal Have you tried Fred's boldness exercises yet? Met Richard Branson? We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. If you bumped into Elon Musk at a restaurant or Richard Branson on a transatlantic flight, would you be prepared to make the most of the situation?
Would you be bold enough to get your selfie?
You'll have probably considered this if you've already listened to the episode. Here's the link to do so in case you haven't.
Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Do you want to learn how to be bold and confident? Making Conversations about being super bold Count! "Nobody gets a compliment and goes, oh, you're completely wrong, and I am hideous or stupid. I'm insulted by the fact that you suggested that I'm attractive."
Fred Joyal, Making Conversations Count - (May 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Who is Fred Joyal? Fred Joyal used to run television ads to help dentists find their clients.
Now he's helping people to discover how to be bold and confident, so they can go well beyond their comfort zones and achieve great things.
Want to get a hot date?
Be bold and confident!
Want to meet Elon Musk or Richard Branson?
The only way is to be bold and confident!
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Fred explains to Wendy how you can really keep inhibitions at bay and do great things, just by practicing some boldness exercises.
You'll learn....
This episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which Fred Joyal shares his guidance on how to be bold and confident, covers:
- What are boldness exercises?
- What is PRIDE?
- Embarrassment is a choice!
- Fred's conversation that counted and how it led him on a journey of learning how to be bold and confident!
A poignant moment from the episode:
"But you didn't have nothing to say because a lot of people go, I wouldn't know what to say.
It's like, really, you don't know how to say Hi to somebody?
You don't know how to say, Hi, I'm Wendy. I'd like to meet you or, Hi, I'm Wendy. You seem like a really interesting person?
I'd like to get to know you or Hi, I'm Wendy. I just wanted to just say hello and tell you that suit looks amazing on you. And I got to go.
And what you've done is, hey, you made somebody feel good about themselves. Guess who else feels good? You."
Click here for the full transcript
What IS Making Conversations Count?
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Carrying On The Conversation about Mc Donalds movie "The Founder" and June Martino that Wendy had with EA Csolkovits So, did EA's revelations about the true story behind The Founder blow your mind as much as it did ours? We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. If you've seen the movie "The Founder" you'll know the story of how Ray Kroc was instrumental in the success story of McDonalds.
Or was he?
Did he have much to do with it at all?
You'll know the answer to this if you've already listened to the episode. Here's the link to do so in case you haven't.
Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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The latest of our conversations is with a man who could have easily written a Hollywood movie starring Michael Keaton Making Conversations about discernible deeds Count! "So I just threw it out there. Where would I find my Ray Kroc? Where would he be? Where would I meet him? ...."
EA Csolkovits, Making Conversations Count - (May 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Who is EA Csolkovits? EA Csolkovits is a man with a fascinating story that intertwines janitorial services with the golden arches.
Yes, those golden arches.
As the founder of Givers University, EA Csolkovits is living his purpose, helping students to identify discernible deeds.
All of it comes back - as it usually does - to the conversation that he had that counted.
And that conversation was with June Martino.
Yep, bit of a break in format with this episode.
Because the whole conversation is the conversation that counted.
And in this particular story, it's not the conversation we're focusing on. It's what that conversation led to.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, EA explains to Wendy exactly what it was that June Martino said to him, and where that led him in his own journey.
You'll learn.... This episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which EA Csolkovits tells his story about meeting June Martino and learning the origin story of McDonalds and Ray Kroc, covers:
- EA’s connection to the movie “The Founder”
- What “The Founder” depicted accurately
- The question EA asked June Martino
- EA’s need to find his Ray Kroc
- How EA applies his learnings from Ray Kroc to GIVERS!
A poignant moment from the episode: There's a part in the movie where June goes to Ray and says, "Ray, we got a little problem. We don't have any money".
He can't believe it.
And he says, what do you mean? We have all these?
And that causes him to call the brothers and they have this drama scene. I want more percentage, I need more percentage, etc.
And he signs on the phone, that isn't how the event happened, but the event itself did happen.
So she told me Ray didn't have any money.
He was out of money.
There was no money in the till.
There was no money in the company.
So we made an agreement that I would keep working for him for no pay.
And he would pay me in worthless worth less than zero company stock. And he would take the bill collectors and the bill collectors were calling me personally for money.
He would take the phone calls. So I just asked her, I said, June, why did you do it? I said, I'm 16 years old and I'm a janitor. I work paycheck to paycheck. If I don't get my check on Friday, I'm not showing on Saturday. I need my check.
Why did you work for nothing? I would never do that. And right then Wendy, she stared at me with this blank look on her face, eyeball to eyeball, and I realised she just left the room even though she's staring at me.
And here I am, I'm 16 years old and I'm talking to June Martino, the icon.
Everyone knew who she was in the area when I met her. As she's staring at me, I'm going because it seemed like 30 minutes was like maybe 15 seconds.
But I realised I just asked her a question no one ever asked her before. Everyone wanted to know what happened, but no one wanted to know why. And I just asked her, why did you do it?
And when she spoke it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck, I still remember what she said, the way she said it.
And my first thought right after she made the statement...
Click here for the full transcript What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_-McDonalds_movie_The_Founder_and_that_thing_June_Martino_said_that_will_teach_you_all_about_GIVERS_and_takers.mp3
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_83_EA_Csolkovits_transcript_PDF_version_18_05_2022.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about content entrepreneurs that Wendy had with Joe Pulizzi How did you find those content marketing tips? Sorted your content strategy yet? We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. In a low data area? Click this for a lower quality version.
Content marketing is something that can be difficult for some to understand.
It's all about getting yourself out of the 'take' mindset, and instead becoming all about 'giving'.
As in, giving information. Info that's useful to your target audience!
And ultimately, if you do that, the rewards will follow.
In the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" Wendy Harris chatted with the guy who literally invented the term 'content marketing'.
Joe Pulizzi shared immense wisdom around what the term really means, and how you can apply it in your own offerings.
Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen before you listen to this one!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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The man who invented content marketing talks about becoming a content entrepreneur Making Conversations about content entrepreneurs Count! "It takes time. Of course, you're always going to have those outliers that just make it right away.
But generally, that doesn't happen...."
Joe Pulizzi, Making Conversations Count - (May 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Who is Joe Pulizzi? Joe Pulizzi is a content 'super hero'.
As the founder of The Tilt and author of "Content Inc", Joe has been helping his followers take the step toward being a successful marketing entrepreneur for more than a decade.
Joe is also creating his own crypto currency.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Joe explains to Wendy how important it is to be clear in your goals if you want your content to work for you.
Also, why it's important to get your head around how to behave at 'the cocktail party'.
If you're involved in the marketing and content side of business in any way, you need to listen to this episode...
You'll learn.... In this episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which Joe Pulizzi shares his wealth of wisdom around how to be the best marketing entrepreneur, covers:
- The phrase ‘content marketing’ and what this marketing entrepreneur had to do with its origins
- The truth about ‘overnight success’
- How will you behave at ‘the cocktail party’?
- Joe’s conversation that counted – (and the importance of patience and listening!)
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy
Being a business owner is definitely not for the faint hearted, that's for sure. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there, isn't there? If you believe everything that you read, it's the work life balance lifestyle. You've just touched on it yourself and Pam 2007 to 2011, it's four years of you having to work together when there's two of you in the business. It's a family business. Gosh, that's a lot riding on it. You've got to have that true belief.
Joe
And you've got to be a little bit crazy. And most entrepreneurs are a little bit crazy because you're audacious enough to think that you can create something out of nothing. And actually, build a business. And knowing that the failure rate is pretty high, within three years, half of businesses shut down. That don't make it. That's just within three years. That's horrible. I think it's something like within seven to ten years, only one in ten of those businesses are still going, oh, my God, what a horror stpry. But if you stick with it, and that's the opportunity too, because so many people give up and they don't realise that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Because one day, as you said before, you're on top of the world. You think, this is the greatest day of my life. I'm so glad I started a business. And the next day you're like, what did I do? This is horrible. I'm an idiot. Why did I start a business? Why did I leave a secure job with benefits or whatever? And it just goes back and forth all the time and it's very challenging. That's why my heart goes out to any entrepreneur and business owner.
Wendy
I was talking to somebody the other day and they're saying you've got the front door and you've got the back door. If you're in business for yourself and you're thinking about the back door, which is kind of your Plan B. It isn't looking very good for you because what you're actually doing is you're already kind of heading that way because that's where your energy is going, isn't it?
Joe
Yes.
Wendy
So, if you're an entrepreneur, it's front door only. Which I thought was quite a good way of looking at it.
Joe
I guess it depends on how you define risk. When I left my pretty good job in 2007, there were a lot of people came up to me. So, I can't believe you're risking that. You're giving up benefits and whatever. And I'm like, well, today, what's riskier? Me putting all my energy into somebody else's strategy that I don't have any say over and they can fire me or lay me off at any time or actually going out and doing something and having full at least as much control as you possibly can over this entity. I feel like the risky thing is to leave it up to somebody else where I have no say. It's almost like it's the same thing with stocks, right? Depending on if you look at the stock market, it's not necessarily risky, but if I invest all my money into, let's say, Twitter, I'm basically just taking a guess because I don't have anything to say. I don't have any say over the strategy of what goes on on Twitter. If I can't pick up the phone and call somebody and influence the organisational strategy, it's pretty risky. For me personally, I don't think we think about that a lot.
Click here for the full transcript What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Joe-Pullizi-lower-show-notes-and-post
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_82_Joe_Pulizzi_transcript_word_version_11_05_2022.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about academic leadership skills that Wendy had with Professor Kevin Singh Ever considered becoming an architect? Want to educate others? We discuss our takeaways from the recent episode. In a low data area? Click this for a lower quality version.
If you're reading this indoors, you're almost certainly inside a structure that was designed by an architect.
And that means that someone went through a great deal to earn the right to do that for you.
In the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" Wendy Harris chatted with a man who has made his mark on the world through his skills as an architect. He now teaches it to others.
Professor Kevin Singh shared his views on the responsibility that teaching carries, and the impact a good building project can make on the world.
Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the link above to listen!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Is excellent academic leadership and management possible in the education system? Making Conversations about education Count! "We recognise all the students are different, have different backgrounds, you have different skills, abilities, different ambitions. If universities were some of the things that people accuse them of, we wouldn't give that level of choice..."
Kevin Singh, Making Conversations Count - (May 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Who is Kevin Singh? Professor Kevin Singh is Head of the Manchester School of Architecture as well as the Director of "Space Studios" in Manchester.
Kevin is also part owner of a bar and restaurant.
But this entrepreneur isn't just in it for the money.
As you'll hear, he has a very clear mission in mind.
To leave an impact on students and buildings alike.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Kevin explains to Wendy how educational frameworks are important and need to be handled correctly, and why he's not bothered about being commissioned for a big New York skyscraper!...
You'll learn.... In this episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which Kevin Singh shares his thoughts on management and education in architecture, covers:
- Kevin’s values around ‘taking responsibility’ and comparison
- The real continuing value of education
- The impact architecture (and solid educational leadership) can make!
- Kevin’s pivotal conversation
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy Harris
There's an old saying, and I don't know who said it may be Jim Rohn or somebody like that that says, do what you love and you never work a day in your life, isn't it? It's that sort of concept.
Kevin Singh
Yeah, spot on. Yeah. Which I think goes then to that point to students trying to have your career, because you're far more likely to enjoy it. I mean, if you enjoy social housing and small domestic projects, that's not better or worse than designing big office buildings, each to their own really!
Wendy Harris
Doesn't that just fall into a different category of. Well, actually, you can feel a real sense of pride because of the contribution that you make.
Kevin Singh
Yeah. I mean, probably legacy is too strong a word, but I certainly know where I feel most reward is that sense of satisfaction when you see a student that was failing or was desperate to get a 2-1 and you help them achieve it, or they went on to get a great job. But I've got an ex student who unbelievably talented drawing, has left the profession, has now set up his own business as an artist, as an illustrator. It's really satisfying to see that he's gone on to do something that he's clearly passionate about. He works from home, he's got a young family, it's perfect for him. And it's not a failure that he didn't practise for long as an architect. He just found his calling. That's great, really. I'm still waiting for my calling to be a professional footballer, but I think it's a little bit too late for me
Click here for the full transcript What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_-_Making_Comversations_about_education_Count.mp3
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_81_Kevin_Singh_transcript_PDF.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about leadership training skills that Wendy had with Jay Guilford Do you have what it takes to be a great leader? Is your office an absolute circus?
Do your staff feel like your company is run by a bunch of clowns?
Sometimes that can be a tough question to answer, if you're not asking the right questions...
In the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" Wendy Harris chatted with an ex clown from Cirque Du Soleil.
Jay's job was to literally train clowns, and its a skill he's taken beyond the circus and into business, applying the learning with Fortune 500 company bosses.
Jay Guilford shares a lot of incredible advice and insight about leadership in episode 80.
Wendy and producer Neal get together as always, and chat through what they've learned.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the link above to listen!
And make sure you have a pen and notepad handy!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Is your leadership team 'clowning around'? Making Conversations about training leaders Count! "The sun is shining or the clouds are raining, or all of the structures that we've built are standing. Mostly everything is going well."
Jay Guilford, Making Conversations Count - (April 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Who is Jay? As a face of Cirque du Soleil's training program "Spark", Jay had the opportunity to work with some of the most creative minds in the world.
He was constantly amazed at the circus performers’ ability to turn their art into a demonstration of leadership – to use teamwork, training, and focus to create seemingly impossible feats.
Once a man who was clowning around with the circus, Jay Guilford is now highly respected for his skills in training leaders, and if he wasn’t paying attention to his surroundings he might have missed his cue.
And this is the teaching he preaches to his clients at Fortune 500 companies.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Jay explains to Wendy how he gets the best out of today's leaders, using skills he's gained from being the front man in the big top!
You'll learn.... In this episode of "Making Conversations Count", in which Jay Guilford shares how he helps train leaders, covers:
- Jay’s job: telling leaders to ‘calm down’
- Be your authentic self
- Listen!! And everyone lies!
- Communicate like they’re a seven-year-old
- Everything is going well – even when it feels like chaos
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy
What would your top tip be for those starting out in terms of communication and leading themselves?
Jay
In my heart, the top tip is authenticity. It's something that I've had to learn early in my career. I did things because I needed a job or I wanted this amount of money or I wanted the prestige of a certain set of things, and that was different from being my authentic self.
So early on, especially when you're younger, the world forgives you for a lot of stuff.
Like, if you're in your 20s, you can be sleeping on a couch or, like, hopping from job to job and you have a lot of leeway because you're 20 something and not 40 something like me. I think everyone has a lot of leeway, but when you're younger, it's easier to take those chances.
Click here for the full transcript What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
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Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
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Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_-_from_clowning_around_for_laughing_audiences_with_Cirque_Du_Soleil_to_guiding_Google_bosses_towards_amazing_results_along_the_leadership_tightrope.mp3
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_80_Jay_Guilford_transcript_PDF.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about getting better website traffic that Wendy had with Michael Buzinski Have you got everything set up to attract the visitors that you WANT on your website? The rule of 26 is a framework that can increase your website conversions by 100%.
This was explained in detail by guest Michael Buzinski when he was on the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count".
Wendy Harris had a very impactful conversation with Michael and you'll hear for yourself how she's specifically taken action off the back of it.
We're hoping you'll have already listened and taken notes from the episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Michael Buzinski. In which case, this bonus content will make sense!
Wendy and Neal deep dive into Michael's insights into using the rule of 26 In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" Wendy and producer Neal reflect back on the recent episode which featured author and website expert, Michael Buzinski.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the link above to listen!
And make sure you have a pen and notepad handy!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Are you using the correct KPIs to ensure your website is attracting the correct kind of traffic for you? Making Conversations about website marketing Count! "Social media is not where we test markets.
Unless you have the following of your perfect clients, your target market, you are not testing on social media."
Michael Buzinski, Making Conversations Count - (April 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Effective use of website marketing When it comes to website marketing, you have to be willing to put in the work if you want to see results.
Too many business owners make the mistake of thinking that they can simply create a website and wait for the customers to come flooding in.
That's not how it works! You have to be proactive and generate traffic yourself. One way to do that is by using the "Rule of 26."
The tips and strategy contained within this episode of Making Conversations Count will help you escape low traffic woe and massively increase your website's revenue generation power!
You'll learn.... In this episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Michael Buzinski shares how to properly use website marketing covers:
- Fear in your marketing
- Start with local
- Facebook is dead?
- Everyone’s an expert
- The Conversation that counted for ‘Buzz’
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy
I've built my own website on Weebly years ago and then kind of maintained it, and I thought that was all I needed to do. And then it all changed and somebody said, "oh, WordPress!" And I was like, I haven't got a clue.
Now. I haven't got line of sight of my own website because I don't understand it. And I haven't really had the time for anybody to particularly show me. The only thing I want to do is upload the blog. For me, it should be fairly static. When people have told me that there is so much more to having a website than just having a website, I haven't come away feeling convinced. People that are talking to me about having a website because everybody does. And I don't want to be like everybody else does and just trust that you're telling me that and you want me to part with how much money and then them say, oh, but you've got to treat it like person. It's a person's salary. It's the equivalent of a person's salary. Well, I can't afford a VA.
So why would I pay for another salary? It makes it conceivably out of reach for a lot of people, because then they don't really understand what it is that they should be doing and what it is that they need to have. So they can go and ask somebody to say, "can you do this for me?" Because if you don't feel like you know the questions, how do you ask?
Michael Buzinski
You're bringing up the point of pricing, right?
And so that's, like, the next level. You could love my methodology and you could love me. You could say, I buy into the buzz. Buzz is the man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if I bring to you a price that you can't afford, you can't afford it, period. End of story. But you also have to understand, even if you can't afford it, it's good to get your options out there. It's good to do research and talk to at least two people. No more than three. If you go beyond three in your research, you want to find the two to three that you really like. You understand at least what their website is saying.
And you've gone to their social media and you're like, okay, this person seems like they know what they're talking about.
That's great. Now go in and ask, okay, what are you offering? How does that help me? And what is the pricing for that? The lowest price is usually depending if it's super low, you know, you get what you pay for. So if it's too good to be true, it probably is when it comes to pricing.
Click here for the full transcript What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lowerbandwidth-Use_the_Rule_of_26_to_escape_low_traffic_woe_and_hugely_increase_your_websites_revenue_generation_power.mp3
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_79_Michael_Buzinski_transcript_PDF.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about answering customer questions on your website that Wendy had with Marcus Sheridan Are you ready to be honest with your customers on your website? If you don't want to address the elephant in the room, someone else will.
That's just one of the many key takeaways to be enjoyed in the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" that featured Wendy Harris chatting with Marcus Sheridan.
We're hoping you'll have already listened and taken notes from the episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Marcus Sheridan. In which case, this bonus content will make sense!
Wendy and Neal deep dive into Marcus' insights into content marketing In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" Wendy and producer Neal reflect back on the recent episode which featured author and speaker, Marcus Sheridan.
If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the link above to listen!
And make sure you have a pen and notepad handy!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
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Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Using your website to answer customer questions and address the elephant in the room Making Conversations about them asking Count! "It's not until we're really serious about spending our money on something that we start to wonder, all right, how could this go wrong? How could this blow up in my face? What could be the drawbacks? What could be the negatives? We don't ask those things unless we actually want the thing"
Marcus Sheridan, Making Conversations Count - (April 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Open and honest website marketing Have you ever had a conversation with a company where they just didn't seem to want to be open and honest with you?
In this episode of "Making Conversations Count," Marcus Sheridan discusses how companies can avoid making conversations suck.
He explains how many businesses try to hide information from their customers rather than being transparent with them on their websites.
This is a huge mistake, and Marcus caused a movement in marketing when he released his book "They Ask, You Answer" in 2016.
The 'pool guy' Since then, he's gone from a guy who was selling fibreglass pools (and ONLY fibreglass pools) to a highly respected global keynote speaker, offering wisdom to forward thinking corporations who want to embrace the philosphy of 'TAYA'!
If you want to learn how to make your conversations count, and avoid making them suck, then you need to listen to this marketing masterclass!
The book "They Ask, You Answer" is about how companies can be more open with their customers on the internet.
Marcus Sheridan talks about how they can avoid making conversations suck, and how they can embrace the philosophy of TAYA.
He also offers some wisdom to forward thinking corporations who want to adopt this philosophy.
Marcus Sheridan is a highly respected global keynote speaker, and he has some amazing things to say about marketing, and how companies can use the internet to their advantage.
If you want to learn more from Marcus Sheridan, then you should definitely check out this podcast episode!
In fact, it's less a podcast episode, and more a mini masterclass on how to do website-based content marketing correctly!
Click play.
You won't be disappointed.
With the help of Marcus Sheridan, you'll learn:
- The importance of talking about the elephant in the room
- Why 'TAYA' (They Ask, You Answer) philosophy works so well
- The things people worry about when making a purchase
- Why even the wealthiest purchasers still need to know your pricing
Want to read more in depth info about the episode?
Click here to be taken to the podcast's website.
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy
It is something that really tickles me that people are a little bit like, oh, no, it's mine, it's mine. It's mine.
And it sort of reminds me of a title to one of your chapters. I've been told if we're not adding anything new to the conversation and we shouldn't be talking about it, it's like, well, that's like the CEO of that marine boating company saying, well, we don't really know who our customer is then, so let's not talk to them.
Marcus
That's exactly right. I actually get really miffed about some of the things that you see when it comes.
I think a lot of folks that talk about social media, talk about content, talk about this, talk about that.
They act like there's no learning curve to this whole thing. Like, as businesses, we've got to start the race running.
And if we can't start a running, we shouldn't start the race at all. It's like, what are you talking about?
Like, you're going to crawl for a while and then you're going to stumble and start walking, and then you're going to start jogging and start running.
That's how it works with anything in life. But yet when it comes to the Internet, we're not allowed to do that.
Everything you do, we have got to understand there's going to be a learning curve.
The companies that don't embrace learning curves, that don't embrace the messy, they suck at the Internet, they're no good because they think, I'm going to just make this quantum leap without actually doing the learning component to this. I'm going to come out the gate perfect.
Bull crap you are. That's not going to happen. And so the ones that embrace the messy, let's say, you know what, on a letter grade scale, this is like a C plus. Eventually it's going to be a B, maybe it'll be an A, but today we're going to take C plus. We're going to take it.
Click here for the full transcript Honorary mentions in this episode Dr Ivan Misner
"They Ask, You Answer" (obviously!)
River Pools (obviously!)
Jim Collins
If you connect with any of them, tell 'em Wendy Harris sent you along for a ChinWAG!...
What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_They_Ask_You_Answer_and_immediately_enjoy_a_better_customer_relationship_thanks_to_the_teachings_of_Marcus_Sheridan_epiode.mp3
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/WAG_MCC_78_Marcus_Sheridan_transcript_word_version_12_4_2022.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about having a business co-pilot that Wendy had with David Holland Are you ready to get your own business co-pilot? You don't know what you don't know when it comes to business.
And sometimes, when you're too close to it all, you either rush your decisions, or worse still, you don't make any at all.
And this can spell disaster for your company's survival.
We can all be a little too emotionally attached to it all.
With any luck you'll already have been clued up on how vital a business co-pilot could be for your business having heard the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with David Holland.
Wendy and Neal deep dive into the benefits of a business coach. In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" Wendy and producer Neal reflect back on the recent episode which featured business coach, David Holland.
Oh, and if you check out his page on the website, you'll get access to an exclusive offer for listeners of "Making Conversations Count"....
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
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Do you need a business coach in your business' co-pilot seat? Making Conversations about business co-pilots Count! "There's a danger of, of focusing on the stuff... the accoutrements of life and the big fancy cars and that sort of thing..."
David Holland, Making Conversations Count - (April 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
This week's conversation about business coaches/co-pilots with David Holland; If you're like most business owners, you're working hard every day to make your business a success.
But sometimes it can be tough to see the wood from the trees, especially when you're so close to your own business.
This is where a business co-pilot can be invaluable.
In this week's episode of "Making Conversations Count", we speak with David Holland about the value of having a co-pilot in your business.
David is a successful entrepreneur who has learned how to see the big picture and help businesses achieve their goals.
With the help of David Holland, you'll learn:
- How David's desire to design the perfect life led to his becoming a business coach
- 'Stuff' is not the answer (fast cars, beaches etc)
- How a business coach can help and how business coaches want to help
- How you can seriously gain in life by just giving away your most precious possession!
- David's proudest achievement as a business coach
- The pivotal conversation he had on a train which changed his life
Want to read more in depth info about the episode?
Click here to be taken to the podcast's website.
A poignant moment from the episode: Wendy Harris: I do honestly, I do, I work to live.
This is something else that business owners get embroiled in the, "It's my business and it's personal".
This has come up with lots of previous guests that switching off is really hard, so whilst you've got your time in the diary as three days a week, it doesn't stop you from thinking about it.
David Holland: Absolutely not, and this is why it's so important to do something that we love doing.
I'm working with clients and doing the workshop on the three days a week.
When it comes to the Friday and we're digging the garden or something, it doesn't mean you're not thinking about it, it's always there.
We treat our business as a person, another entity, another person in the family.
We talk to the business, we liaise with the business, we're thinking about them as we go along. That's absolutely fine, but that's why I think it's really important to choose something that you enjoy doing. We didn't enjoy running a transport recruitment business, we just weren't made for it.
This, we are, therefore it's not a job really. I would never say this to my clients, well I might do, but I would do this if I didn't get paid. We do that to run everything else, but I actually enjoy what I do. I enjoy speaking with people, supporting them in all that we do and I don't mind if I think about it seven days a week, it's all part of the fun.
Click here for the full transcript Honorary mentions in this episode StartupTycoon
Brandon C White
If you connect with any of them, tell 'em Wendy Harris sent you along for a ChinWAG!...
What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/David-Holland-lower-bandwidth
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC77.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about 'being intentional' and designing your best year ever that Wendy had with Rob Cressy Are you ready to live life with full intention? Being intentional We overcomplicate things as humans.
All we seem to do is spend our lives waiting around for things to happen.
Hopefully you'll already know how easy it is to change that, and live life to the full, having heard the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Rob Cressy.
Wendy and Neal deep dive into being intentional In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" Wendy and producer Neal reflect back on the recent episode which featured creating coach, Rob Cressy.
Oh, and if you check out his page on the website, you'll get access to a free guide to enjoying your best morning routine.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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How to be intentional every day, design the best year ever and get paid for doing exactly what you love! Making Conversations with yourself Count! "Is that possible that it can be easy and fun for you to have every single day of your life be the best day of your life?..."
Rob Cressy, Making Conversations Count - (March 2022)
Lower bandwidth version Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
The lessons of this conversation with Rob Cressy This episode of Making Conversations Count talks us through how to be intentional every day, and how we can have a conversation with ourselves.
With the help of Rob Cressy, you'll learn:
- In order to get paid for what you love you need to do what you love
- Brad Sugars is right when he talks about reading a book a week, but Rob brings further thought
- A question to ponder to keep you 'on track' - can it be easy and fun?
- A quadrant of intentionality - Health, Wealth, Love and Happiness
- Uncertainty sucks because it leads to inaction
- The biggest things that can impact our lives can happen in an instant. So you need to be intentional equally quickly!
A poignant moment from the episode: Scroll below for the link to the full transcript Wendy Harris: It's that being relentless about yourself, isn't it, in pursuing those aspects that you want to achieve in your life. I think sometimes change happens subtly as well. It doesn't have to be such a Hollywood moment.
Rob Cressy: It can be both. I'll give you example of a change that happened to me recently that actually changed my life for the rest of my life, amazing. I was on the receiving end of some coaching, and I was saying to my coach, "For the last decade, I have not stopped thinking about my entrepreneurial journey and what it is that I'm creating every single day, nonstop". There's just like this loop in my head, and I was like, "I'm just always thinking about this, and I don't want to always be thinking about this". He was like, "Rob, as you grow your potential grows, so by design you're always going to be thinking about this forever. You can either choose to be a victim or you can choose to be at peace with this".
I sat there and I was like, "That actually makes sense". I was like, "Of course, if I keep getting better and doing things I've never done before, so therefore my mind is always going to think about it, so let's not take the victim mentality that why am I always thinking about this? Just say, 'Hey, I'm aware that I'm thinking about this and that's not necessarily a bad thing and I'm at peace with this'".
Honorary mentions in this episode The Obstacle is the Way - by Ryan Holiday
Brad Sugars and his thoughts on growth through reading
Trisha Lewis
Veronica Franklin Gould
Rob's podcast "Best Year Ever"
The Power of Consistency by Weldon Long
The Steelers
The Raiders
If you connect with any of them, tell 'em Wendy Harris sent you along for a ChinWAG!...
What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Lower quality version Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-quality version of the episode that's less data intensive, here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Rob-Cressy-lower-bandwidth
Transcript version Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC76.docx.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about 'unsquashing' yourself to overcome imposter syndrome that Wendy had with Trisha Lewis Are you ready to unsquash yourself? Effective communication Showing up isn't always easy.
And sometimes we find it much more comfortable to reduce the chances of feeling judgement and shame by holding back.
And that's not good for anybody.
And it's exactly why it's important for us to work on 'unsquashing' ourselves so we can bring our gifts to the world.
Wendy's been unsquashing for a while now! Wendy's recently been working extra hard on unsquashing herself, and this is being reflected in the information and tips she's sharing with listeners.
She's owning her gift for using conversations to change lives and businesses.
In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" Wendy and producer Neal reflect back on the recent episode which featured communication coach, Trisha Lewis.
Oh, and if you check out her page on the website, you'll get access to a free guide to showing up in your best self on Linkedin.
If you prefer reading, scroll down for the full transcript.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
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Carrying On The Conversation - Trisha Lewis Transcript [00:00:00] Wendy: Trisha Lewis the Queen of the unsquashed.
[00:00:05] Neal: I do love that. I do love that. it is true. What you said in the conversation about that makes absolutely no sense, but it makes perfect sense when you know what it's talking about.
[00:00:16] So communication coaching, essentially.
[00:00:19] Wendy: Yeah. I mean the, the boring version versus the 'Impact' version. So yeah, communication coach versus "UNSQUASHABLE!" And I think Trisha has a really good insight on the awareness of what holds us back in conversation and even demonstrated it herself by messaging me the day before, because she'd had that minor operation on her face and her nose.
[00:00:52] So I think it was a really important message that even she sometimes squashes herself because she was thinking outside of herself. And I was like, no, actually I want to know all about what happened with your nose. And let's flip this into a positive so that we can give a positive message about staying safe in the sun.
[00:01:20] And she was up for it. And I think it really worked and demonstrated kind of what we all go through. Even when we're experts. We can still second guess ourselves.
[00:01:34] Neal: Hence why you need someone on the outside to be your cheerleader and just say, you know what? You should be feeling a bit more confident about what you bring to the table, because it's really interesting.
[00:01:47] I once knew somebody that was on the face of it incredibly arrogant.
[00:01:53] Wendy: Did she have a big nose too.
[00:01:58] Neal: No, he, he didn't have a big nose. That was one of the things he didn't have that was big. But the ego, I mean, on the face of it, he had a massive ego and he once turned around to somebody. And I overheard this conversation and somebody had essentially accused him of being arrogant and he turned around and he said, no, It's only arrogance, if you can't back it up.
[00:02:21] And part of me thought, oh, but actually in line with what Trisha's teachings are actually he's unsquashed himself and he's being an unapologetic about it. So at what point, does it stop being egotistical, arrogant, fool? And at what point does it become no actually unsquashing himself, which I found fascinating to consider and ponder.
[00:02:46] Did a lot of pondering on that.
[00:02:47] Wendy: Yeah, it's that awareness, isn't it. And, Trisha goes on to talk about the conscious choices that we need to make in order to be seen and to be heard and that was something that, you know, she got me thinking, cause sometimes you just kind of run out of steam on an idea.
[00:03:08] and I know you and I have talked about, you know, personal branding, and to me, it's just who you are at that time. And that grows and changes. And I think it does also come back to who you surround yourself with. I mean, Trisha talks about that community, you know, that you are the media, the John Esperians previous, you know, activists, Janine, Coombs, going on about feminism and stuff like that.
[00:03:36] it's just fascinating that it really just, it brought up a whole heap of fresh curiosity for me. To revisit what I was stuck on.... it's not that I'm stuck ever to communicate, but what I really want to communicate. It's that importance and purpose of it, rather than just doing it for doing its sake.
[00:04:06] So she's helped me. She won't know. I'll have to tell her.
Squash down on imposter syndrome by unsquashing yourself We're Making Conversations about unsquashing yourself Count! "Why am I thinking that? Why am I reacting like that? Why am I getting a little annoyed about this other person's website just because I think it's better than mine... well, what's going on?..."
Trisha Lewis, Making Conversations Count - (March 2022)
Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
Does Trisha need to help you with unsquashing yourself? Do you ever feel like you're not good enough?
Do you put yourself down and find it hard to own your accomplishments?
If so, you're not alone.
Many people suffer from imposter syndrome, which is the fear of being exposed as a fraud.
This often leads to us portraying ourselves in a way that is untrue to who we are.
This can be damaging both professionally and personally.
Luckily, there is help available.
Who is Trisha Lewis and what does she bring to this episode of everyone's favourite telemarketing trainer's podcast? In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count, telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris chats with Trisha Lewis to discuss the importance of communications coaching and learn how it can help you overcome imposter syndrome.
And ultimately how it can help you with unsquashing yourself.
You'll learn:
- What is unsquashing and how does it relate to imposter syndrome?
- How can we recognise when we're squashing ourselves
- What tools we can use today in order to begin the unsquashing process
- What's Trisha's book all about and do you need it?
- How Trisha can further help you
"...that "unsquashy" word is the intriguing one, because obviously, if you don't know me, you'll think, "What the heck is she talking about?" But that's kind of what I do with clients. I unsquash them when I unsquash their business, or help them to, I should say. So, it is all about communication, I mean everything's about communication, and that's my background as an actor, professional speaker; if you like, professional communicator."
Honorary mentions in this episode Getting a 'shout out' are previous guest Janine Coombes, Linkedin legend John Espirian, and Mark Masters (You Are The Media community)
If you connect with any of them, tell 'em Wendy Harris sent you along for a ChinWAG!...
What IS Making Conversations Count? "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
Listen to Making Conversations Count On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
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NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC75.docx.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about being able to tell your story to make an impact and change lives that Wendy had with Dawn Bates They say that everyone has at least one good book in them.
In Wendy's case, it's helped loads of businesses to improve their sales pipeline and you can buy the best seller here.
In Neal's case, it's still sitting on a Google Drive.
In this edition of "Carrying On The Conversation" we break it all down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
And we're a bit nervous that we might well trigger some users of Linkedin....
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
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Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Use your pen and activism to massively impact lives, tell your story and avoid becoming a prisoner of state lies. We're Making Conversations about activism by pen Count! Psst! Low on data? Here's a lower bandwidth version for you.
"The thing is when they've got that book and it's in paper and it's in their hands, it's almost like they open up a page and the words already start healing them. The fact that they choose to buy the book, it starts to heal them, they've taken that next step..."
Dawn Bates, Making Conversations Count - (March 2022)
Before the dream of being a published author is realised, many people find themselves in an unfortunate position.
The system they invest so much time and energy into never sees any real results.
They've probably also spent money on creating their book, using proof-readers and editors, and yet nobody has benefited from their work.
Self-publishing has become increasingly popular over recent years but there are still some things you should know before taking this route to get your book out into world.
Only after listening to this episode of "Making Conversations Count", will you know how to tell the world how awesome your thoughts and words are!
Dawn Bates is a best-selling author and writing coach and an expert in helping people copy words from their brain and paste them down on a document.
You'll learn:
- What type of writer is eligible for that big front end display you see at Waterstones?
- The very real impact writing has on your body, physically
- The challenges of being vulnerable and putting your writing out there
- Wendy's own experience with writing and self-publishing a best-selling book
- The importance of owning your writer voice
- The even bigger important of investing in your authorship
- How Dawn helps her authors further stretch their impact from beyond the pages and into charities and foundations' coffers!
Once you've listened, be sure to check out the exclusives that Dawn is offering to listeners of "Making Conversations Count" right here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/authors-assemble-pen-activist/
There are also a couple of shout-outs to previous guests, Rob Begg and Clara Wilcox.
Listen now to find out why!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Ep74-lower-bandwidth
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC74.pdf
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about the secret formula for business success with Brandon C White This was a conversation that was easy for Wendy Harris and producer Neal Veglio to continue.
I mean, come on!
We just learned the secret formula for business success!
They break it down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
And there's a lot of chat about Aston Martin....
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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What's the secret formula for success in business? We're Making Conversations about building a business success formula Count! "The number one page that people who visit LinkedIn, visit, is their own page. How many times have you seen your own data? It's just one of those things. So, you've got to get out of the mindset and take yourself out....."
Brandon C White, Making Conversations Count - (March 2022)
There's no getting around it - if you want to be successful in business, you have to put in the work.
But there is a formula for success in business.
And if you know it, you can follow it, to help make things a little bit easier on yourself.
In this episode, featuring entrepreneur Brandon C White, we will discuss some of the most important steps to take on your journey to success.
We will also talk about the importance of maintaining a healthy balance between your personal and professional life, and how having the right conversations can help generate leads for your business.
We're going to be Making Conversations about building a business success formula Count!
You'll learn:
- How to reach a goal the easiest way (without burn out)
- How to prepare yourself for potential failure
- The importance of conversations for being successful
- How to recognise when the universe has gifted you with a purposeful conversation
- Why Brandon values podcasts just like this one
- Brandon's conversation that counts, and how you can learn from it
Find out more about Brandon here:
https://brandoncwhite.com/home/main.html
Brandon's podcast, "Edge".
https://brandoncwhite.com/startup-podcast-build-business-brandon-straight-talk-for-entrepreneurs/
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/ep73-lower-bandwidth
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/ep73-show-notes-transcript
Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite app, as every Sunday, we're carrying on the conversation....
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Carrying On The Conversation about brain health with Veronica Franklin Gould Carrying on the conversation is important, especially when it comes to helping your loved ones who are suffering with their brain health.
In this bonus episode, Wendy Harris and producer Neal Veglio chat about the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Veronica Franklin Gould.
They break it down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
Veronica talked about how taking in the arts and enjoying music, culture and other group activities can have a massive positive impact on brain health and tackling conditions like dementia.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Using arts for increasing brain health and fighting off the impacts of dementia We're Making Conversations about brain health Count! "You are keeping your brain active and having a lot of fun while you're doing it. But it's always good to keep learning...."
Veronica Franklin Gould, Making Conversations Count - (March 2022)
Did you know, 200,000 people in the UK (10 million globally) are diagnosed with a dementia each year?
And a third more more do not get a diagnosis.
And it doesn't just impact on the elderly. 5-6% of those diagnosed are under 65. This is known as either early-onset dementia or younger-onset dementia.
The best way of dealing with the onslaught of dementia is by preserving brain health.
In this episode, we discuss the emotionally complex and frightening topic of dementia, and learn more about what can be done to make the suffering a bit easier.
We're joined by Veronica Franklin Gould as we're making conversations about brain health count.
You'll learn:
- The meaning of 'use it or lose it'
- What is Arts4Dementia and how it uses an art and dementia program to help ease the difficulties of dealing with dementia
- The importance of including the sufferer in conversation
- The ability to revive lost skills
Find out more about Veronica's organistation here: https://arts4dementia.org.uk/
And here's Veronica's own spot on the web:
https://veronicarts.org/
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/ep72-lower-bandwidth
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/ep72-show-notes-transcript
Carrying On The Conversation about building an online business on Amazon with Shaahin Cheyene Carrying on the conversation is important, especially when it comes to building your business and becoming a BILLIONAIRE!
In this bonus episode, Wendy Harris and producer Neal Veglio chat about the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Shaahin Cheyene
They break it down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
Shaahin talked about how the smallest of steps taken now can eventually lead to huge results.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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From poverty to pushing (legal) drugs: billionaire Amazon business expert shares how he achieved the American dream We're Making Conversations about building a business on Amazon Count! Bustling to billionaire How did this man go from living in poverty to achieving the American dream?
After growing up in what he felt was mediocrity, this week's episode's guest Shaahin Cheyene decided that enough was enough and left Iran for the US.
Once there, he invested all his energy into building a legal alternative to ecstasy- which is still one of America's most popular rave culture drugs.
The secret sauce He has managed to turn around his life by starting small and working hard until he reached the top of the earning ranks.
He's now living the life many of us dream of, hanging with celebrities, driving fast and expensive cars, and flying around the world first class or in private jets.
What you will get out of listening This episode will explore how Iranian immigrant Shaahin achieved success in such an unlikely manner, as well as what we can learn from him about entrepreneurship and perseverance. Also, how to apply the systems and processes demonstrated by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, so that you can enjoy similar success!
You'll learn: * What Shaahin did to make the start on his new journey * How you can model Shaahin's process to launch your own successful business on Amazon * Some useful tips on leverage * A couple of good book recommendations to inspire
More about Shaahin Shaahin is considered one of the leading global minds on what’s next in e-commerce, Amazon and the internet.
He is described as the “Willy Wonka Of Generation X” by the Observer and Newsweek and is one of the most forward thinkers in business – with his Amazon Mastery Course he acutely recognises trends and patterns early on the Amazon platform to help others understand how these shifts impact markets and consumer behaviour.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/hackgrowrich/videos
Billion: https://www.shaahincheyenne.com/billion-how-i-became-king-of-the-thrill-pill-cult
Hack And Grow Rich: https://www.shaahincheyenne.com/hack-and-grow-rich-podcast
www.fbasellercourse.com
www.shaahincheyene.com
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-conversations-count-honest-relatable-conversations/id1536429483?mt=2&ls=1
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
https://open.spotify.com/show/0wK6BEBrmjSKLWmRdnjMcd?si=91d9b1d671604d38
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_-_Making_Conversations_about_building_a_business_Count.mp3
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/ep71-show-notes-transcript
Carrying On The Conversation about using lazy marketing with Al Tepper (Low on data? Listen to a lower quality version here)
Carrying on the conversation is important, especially when it comes to trench leadership.
In this bonus episode, Wendy Harris and producer Neal Veglio chat about the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Al Tepper.
They break it down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
Al talked about how most small (and even some bigger) businesses have owners who can't 'let go' and need to control their marketing even though they have no clue what they're doing.
So then they resort to going to an agency.
And that's NEVER a good idea, according to Al.
Among the topics discussed:
The concept of lazy marketing and how Wendy and Neal think that applies to most of us in our own businesses.
The huge potentially life changing gift Al has given us.
How we can now feel empowered to not jump on board with every single new idea or platform there is.
Check your business against the Marketing Mastery Score Card:
http://www.marketingmasteryscore.com/
More about Al:
Al Tepper has 22+ years of strategic and operational marketing leadership experience. Al has worked with large global brands including Accenture, IBM, KPMG, the Guardian along with thousands of smaller organizations.
Al's experience covers almost all areas of the marketing sphere for both business and consumer-facing organizations and he now consults on strategy for small businesses without marketing leaders. He turns business leaders into marketing leaders. Through his consultancy and through his marketing academy.
Additionally, Al also coaches business leaders on content creation and how to leverage Linkedin.
Connect with Al via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/altepper/
Al's website: https://www.tepfu.com/
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-conversations-count-honest-relatable-conversations/id1536429483?mt=2&ls=1
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
https://open.spotify.com/show/0wK6BEBrmjSKLWmRdnjMcd?si=91d9b1d671604d38
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Making_Lower_bandwidth_-_Conversations_about_lazy_marketing_Count.mp3
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Ep70-show-notes-transcript
Using lazy marketing to skyrocket your business We're Making Conversations about lazy marketing Count! "What happens if you could have a strategy created by you internally? Well then, there's no bias, there's no risk is there, because it's your strategy, not been built by anyone with a vested interest..."
Al Tepper, Making Conversations Count (February 2022)
You're a small business or company and you want to do marketing but don't know how.
You've been told by agencies that in order to get results, you need to invest large sums of money into their services.
This is not always the case.
In fact, using lazy marketing can be a boon for smaller businesses who want more control over their budget and results.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Al Tepper from Tep-fu joins Wendy Harris and they discuss how lazy marketing can help you avoid overspending on unnecessary services while still getting the results you want.
You'll learn:
- What does using lazy marketing actually look like in a business?
- Why you need to think very seriously if you're considering using a marketing agency
- Why you need to stop thinking negatively when you're thinking of the word 'lazy'
- Why using lazy marketing keeps you in control even when you outsource
- Why you need to stop deluding yourself that your marketing is currently working
- Why your claims that you're too 'busy' to do marketing are more than likely a fiction you're telling yourself
Want some immediate wins?
Check your business against the Marketing Mastery Score Card:
http://www.marketingmasteryscore.com/
More about Al:
Al Tepper has 22+ years of strategic and operational marketing leadership experience. Al has worked with large global brands including Accenture, IBM, KPMG, the Guardian along with thousands of smaller organizations.
Al's experience covers almost all areas of the marketing sphere for both business and consumer-facing organizations and he now consults on strategy for small businesses without marketing leaders. He turns business leaders into marketing leaders. Through his consultancy and through his marketing academy.
Additionally, Al also coaches business leaders on content creation and how to leverage Linkedin.
Connect with Al via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/altepper/
Al's website: https://www.tepfu.com/
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:
https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-conversations-count-honest-relatable-conversations/id1536429483?mt=2&ls=1
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
https://open.spotify.com/show/0wK6BEBrmjSKLWmRdnjMcd?si=91d9b1d671604d38
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Making_Lower_bandwidth_-_Conversations_about_lazy_marketing_Count.mp3
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Ep70-show-notes-transcript
Carrying On The Conversation about trench leadership with Simon Kardynal (Low on data? Listen to a lower quality version here)
Carrying on the conversation is important, especially when it comes to trench leadership.
In this bonus episode, Wendy Harris and producer Neal Veglio chat about the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Simon Kardynal.
They break it down and discuss some of the key 'takeaways' contained within the conversation.
Simon shared his insights about how leadership in the military has evolved from its early years in the trenches, and we wanted to continue that conversation here.
Among the topics discussed:
Not committing fully to goals.
How there is always a better way when it comes to applying your leadership to a situation - even with negativity or gossip.
How Wendy's own leadership has been inspired by the episode.
Trench leadership and how the modern internet connected age has changed how we talk to our troops! We're Making Conversations about being in the trenches Count! "Just because you handled something one way with a particular person, one time, doesn't mean that it's going to work the next time.."
Simon Kardynal, Making Conversations Count (February 2022)
In the latest episode of "Making Conversations Count," leadership expert Simon Kardynal joins us to discuss trench leadership and how the rules have changed in the internet age.
He explains that leadership is now more about conversations, and less about barking orders in the trenches.
He also shares his top tips for any business that uses leadership in its day to day operations.
Hint - he believes there's a greater need for having a 'why' established.
Finally, we learn his way of handling gossip and infighting.
You'll learn:
- How each person you're demonstrating leadership to might need a different approach.
- How to stop gossip.
- The importance of clearly explaining the why as well as the what!
- Why the Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz movie "Knight and Day" contains an important message.
- How the internet era has changed how people want to be led and why it's important to consider that.
- Why barking orders doesn't work.
More about Simon:
Simon is a Canadian who currently lives in Ottawa, Ontario.
He was a member of the Canadian Armed Forces for a little over 26 years, starting as an infantryman, then becoming an aircraft structures technician (think autobody for airplanes) and eventually becoming an institutional leader when he was promoted into the trade of aircraft maintenance superintendent.
Simon has completed many formal leadership military training courses, and in 2021, he completed a Master of Arts in Leadership degree from Royal Roads University where he found his desire to want to help emerging leaders create strong foundations as they embarked on their leadership journeys.
Simon retired from the Canadian Armed Forces so that he could follow his passions of being a private pilot, riding his motorcycle, running, and being the host of his leadership-themed podcast, Trench Leadership: A Podcast From the Front.
Simon on Social Media:
Trench Leadership Web-site: www.trenchleadership.ca
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Trench-Leadership-A-Podcast-from-the-Front-10027091202630
Instagram: trench_leadership
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ3DKPuh_ipqJqyeR0vv46Q
Twitter: @TrenchLeadersh1
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
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NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-conversations-count-honest-relatable-conversations/id1536429483?mt=2&ls=1
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
https://open.spotify.com/show/0wK6BEBrmjSKLWmRdnjMcd?si=91d9b1d671604d38
You are following the show on socials, right?
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link:
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Using Linkedin and the rest of your digital toolbox the RIGHT way! We're Making Conversations about your digital toolbox Count! "The truth is some platforms are gonna work better for you than others..."
Lorraine Ball, Making Conversations Count (February 2022)
Are you running your digital toolkit effectively?
Do you even know what that is?
When you're working with clients, and building relationships, you'll probably need a good digital toolkit in order to be efficient.
As a highly experienced telemarketing trainer and expert, host Wendy Harris knows all about using conversations and relationships to move a deal forward.
She literally teaches this stuff on a daily basis.
But knowing how to do something, and knowing what tools to have in your digital toolbox to get the job done, can make all the difference!
This is a very insightful conversation with a lot of "aha!" moments regarding the use of different social media channels including Facebook and Linkedin.
And Wendy does love a good natter about Linkedin, her social platform of choice.
She always loves to discover newer and better ways to help pass on her knowledge, and help tomorrow's great conversationalists!
You'll learn:
- How it's important to go where your audience is, not where people tell you to be!
- The nuances of each of the various platforms
- Lorraine's advice for businesses that have stayed in the traditional networking lane!
- How you can use the telephone in conjunction with a digital toolbox for the most effective CRM possible!
- Understanding the algorithm 'carrot-and-stick' method that platforms like Pinterest have been using to entice you into 'pay per click'
- Overcoming procrastination by working smarter with your content like newsletters and podcasts!
More about Lorraine:
After spending too many years in Corporate America, Lorraine said goodbye to the bureaucracy, glass ceilings and bad coffee to follow her passion helping small business owners succeed
Today, this successful entrepreneur, author, professional speaker, and host of the marketing podcast, More than a Few Words, brings creative ideas, practical tips, and decades of real-world experience to every conversation.
As the founder of the Digital Toolbox Club, she helps business owners use internet marketing to grow. And in her spare time, she loves to travel, and take photos. You can see her photos at lorraineball.com
More about the Digital Toolbox
Digital Toolbox is an online marketing community for business owners. Filled with tools, tips, training programs, and real-time discussions you will find the answers to all your digital marketing questions.
So, if you are interested in taking a do-it-yourself approach to digital marketing or you simply want to be knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions before hiring a professional, become a member today.
Lorraine on Social Media:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraineball/
Twitter: lorraineball
Facebook - The Digital Toolbox
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lorrainefball/
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link:
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Ep68-show-notes-transcript
Using sales hypnosis and helping customers feel good when going through your sales process We're Making Conversations about sales hypnosis Count! "(As a sales person) you've got to be over and above, more helpful, more encouraging, more for the customer, more for the client, than anyone else they get to meet in their life..."
Gary Outrageous, Making Conversations Count (January 2022)
As a highly experienced telemarketing trainer and expert, host Wendy Harris was all fired up by the opportunity to learn from this guest's perspective.
Not just because she already knew him from her work with him in the past when educating about "the ways of sales"!
But really it's the fact that Gary is a master of the gentle approach to sales.
After all, what better way to help her clients than to get another perspective and method that's proven and that she can pass on to her very own conversationalists-in-training?!
Doesn't everyone want to be able to have more effective conversations when they're generating business leads?
Gary Outrageous is the business hypnotist in question and he has learned how to take lessons from different practitioners and apply them in his own way.
The sales hypnosis aspect of what he does is gentle - using people's own comfort and awareness in any given situation to help them feel at ease when buying.
You'll learn:
- How to use sales hypnosis to encourage trust from your clients, rather than objections
- Why NLP is only scratching at the surface of business conversation
- How disruption can actually be quite gentle
- That "Making Conversations Count" host and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris has a 'tell'
- How you can get a client to smile when you've 'closed' them on a deal
- Why Gary likes F.U.D.-ing
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.
Naked link:
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link: https://makingconversationscount.studio/Episode-67-show-notes-transcript
Change your funnel into a bucket to increase sales conversions and boost your business every day! We're Making Conversations about buckets Count! "The journey is much more about the buyer now, than it is about the brand owner..."
Barnaby Wynter, Making Conversations Count (January 2022)
This episode is all about using buckets for sales conversions – what they are, how to measure them and how to increase their effectiveness.
We chat with Barnaby Wynter about the advantages of using a bucket approach to conversions, rather than a funnel, and why it might be a great option for your brand or business.
But we're not only Making Conversations about buckets Count!
This episode is packed full of useful general business and profit building advice that will help you stay productive and boost your business every day.
You'll learn:
- How to use value propositioning, including behaviour, benefits, and brand equity
- The attributes of time-management
- Why you need to do continuation measurement as well as testing
- Using the 'harvest' method for keeping your business financed and in profitability
- How to target your prospects and increase conversions rather than using the 'spray and pray' tactic for volume lead generation.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.
Naked link:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/Lower_bandwidth_-_Turn_your_sales_funnel_into_a_sales_bucket.mp3
Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link: https://makingconversationscount.studio/Episode-66-show-notes-transcript
Menopause for men AND women as well as how it impacts both? We're Making Conversations about menopause in the workplace Count! "The younger generations coming through will be more open to hearing and talking about this. They'll be better educated than we are..."
Bev Thorogood, Making Conversations Count (January 2022)
This episode of "Making Conversations Count" is creating awareness of menopause for men and the impact they feel from it too.
Men also experience the journey alongside the women in their lives. We get into how men could easily be impacted by it, even if their wife isn't the one suffering!
Bev Thorogood is an expert on the subject of menopause and perimenopause having suffered through it herself.
She's used her experience and some additional research to write a short practical guide to the challenges of suffering through menopause which is bolstered by research from the British Menopause Society.
Bev makes it clear she thinks we need to 'start conversations' in schools, and suggests how that would definitely help women in general.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link: https://makingconversationscount.studio/Episode-65-show-notes-transcript http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC64_transcript.pdf
What's in a name? Diversity and inclusion to avoid workplace bias. We're Making Conversations about inclusion Count! "If you are making a judgment just based on my name, then that's a problem more about you than me. That's not my issue or my burden to carry....."
Sope Agbelusi, Making Conversations Count (January 2022)
We're Making Conversations about inclusion Count!
"If you are making a judgment just based on my name, then that's a problem more about you than me. That's not my issue or my burden to carry."
Sope Agbelusi tells us the story of his name, and the challenges he's endured just for using it, from a young age.
And he's still hugely aware of bias that's happening all around him, all the time.
He's learned to embrace his name and appreciate its uniqueness, as well as the identity of those that share it.
In this, the latest of our most powerful conversations, he's appealing to all of us to do our own bit to recognise our own bias.
Have a listen to learn:
- How Sope handled his name as a young boy
- What his name means in his Nigerian origins
- How all of us have a bias and what we can do to correct that
- Bias isn't just about names or colour - it can impact in many other ways including gender
- How Tchaikovsky managed something many don't!
- The importance of intention
- The strategies for inclusion
- The conversation that counted
Want to carry on the conversation with Sope?
Sope's website - https://mindsetshift.co.uk
Email Sope: hello@mindsetshift.co.uk
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
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Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.
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Hard of hearing? Read the episode using a transcript, here.
Naked link: http://traffic.libsyn.com/makingconversationscount/MCC64_transcript.pdf
Are you using your social media as an effective networking and marketing tool? We're Making Conversations about savvy socials Count! "They're almost not using it right then (social media) if they feel they need to take a break. Something's not aligned...."
Get Savvy Club, Making Conversations Count (December 2021)
How are you doing with your social media?
Are you generating new business or at least adding to your lead generation pipeline?
Get Savvy Club was founded by Anna Geary & Anita Baldwin with a mission to help small businesses use social media effectively for generating business.
They have done this through their podcast "Marketing Made Easy".
In this episode, they explain how social media is very similar to traditional in-person professional networking.
Have a listen to learn:
- How Anna and Anita first met, and why it was meant to be
- Anna's history with the stage
- Anita's awkward history with professional networking
- Why you shouldn't ever need to take a break from social media if you're using it correctly!
- Are you an introvert or an extrovert? How do you deal with that?
- The two things you need to be good at to become successful and how to get good at them (sales and marketing)
- How you can use social media correctly for your marketing messaging. (Hint - don't just endlessly post 'buy from me' content!)
- The importance of keeping a consistent 'voice' in all you do!
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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Hard of hearing? Read the full episode as a written transcript here.)
Naked link: https://makingconversationscount.studio/Episode-63-show-notes-transcript
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.)
Naked link: https://makingconversationscount.studio/Episode-63-lower-quality
A powerful conversation between an award-winning podcaster and a number one podcaster! We're Making Conversations about honesty Count! "Actually I don't think I could do this if I was any younger. I wouldn't have the experience, I wouldn't have the perspective, I wouldn't have the confidence to be as vulnerable with the conversations that I am......"
Georgie Vestey, Making Conversations Count (December 2021)
(Hard of hearing? You can 'read' the episode here.
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.)
In this week's episode of Making Conversations Count Wendy's talking to Georgie Vestey, host of the Dead Honest podcast .
We often talk about the importance of our conversations on this podcast, but this only really counts!
Wendy and Georgie really got into a deep dive chat about what it's like doing a podcast in middle age.
And so in this episode you'll hear Wendy saying to Georgie that they're going to be making conversations about honesty count... and they certainly do get dead honest with each other!
They also share their favourite things about podcasting and deep dive into some of the things that anyone who wants to start a podcast should be aware of, including getting some help with the production.
The dead honest conversation continues all the way throughout this episode and in particular they discuss:
- The story behind how the Dead Honest podcast came to be
- Wendy's dead honest story about the Dr Ivan Misner episode that nearly didn't happen
- Georgie's dead honest revelation about her proudest podcast moment
- Both of the ladies' thoughts on how you can't predict your podcast's success - the podcast listeners are the judges!
- Georgie's shares what she thinks it is that makes for a successful podcast
- And of course, Georgie describes to us which of her conversations was the one that counted
(Read the full transcript on the episode page)
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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How one woman found the secrets to business success while mountaineering on Everest! We're Making Conversations about mountaineering Count! "Winners never quit is a terrible maxim. You should absolutely quit in all sorts of situations......" Cathy O'Dowd, Making Conversations Count (December 2021)
(Hard of hearing? You can 'read' the episode here.
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.)
The team behind "Making Conversations Count" always like to move mountains to bring you the most inspirational business-themed conversations.
And in this episode we're being literal.
Are you wild about nature?
How far would you go to see the dizzying heights of the world?
We're joined by a lady who thinks like an explorer and actually speaks about where mountains meet management.
Cathy O'Dowd can claim she has climbed the mountain.
And not just once.
She's done it twice, on both sides!
She has also adventured the Himalayans defying the elements.
None of this could be done alone.
As part of a team with the same goal to get to the top and down alive, she's been shown the many faces of ability and skills.
And all are translatable to business.
Listen to learn why mountaineering shares so many things in common with business.
And learn Cathy's key takeaways for how you can apply the business learnings Cathy has taken away at 29 thousand feet on the side of a mountain!
Been Googling "best online courses websites"? Stop! You don't need one. Course marketing expert says there's an easier way! We're Making Conversations about online courses Count! "A lot of the people again, they watched too much of this 'business porn' and they just think courses are the best thing ever and it's the next thing and I want to make one......"
Tom Libelt, Making Conversations Count (December 2021)
(Hard of hearing? You can 'read' the episode here.
Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here.)
Make money while you sleep with passive income! A man named Pat Flynn once taught the business internet how to make money while you sleep, with a concept called 'passive income'.
Nowadays, one of the top search terms on Google is "best online courses websites" as people around the world attempt to get a leg up in this space, and monetise their acquired knowledge.
But online courses are not the only way to monetise your knowledge, as online course marketing expert Tom Libelt explains in this episode of "Making Conversations Count."
"Field of Dreams" told us that if we build it, they will come. But they probably won't actually... During this episode, Tom lifts the curtain on how most speakers get their apparent success at large speaking events.
He explains to Wendy that they're usually getting a helping hand from the organisers, and so if their ideas and content suck, they're probably not going to realise it until they put it to market.
Hint: that speaker's popularity might not be entirely authentic.
Humble beginnings Tom believes that if you truly want to make money from online courses, you've got to think it through a bit more, and really do your market research.
Be proactive in understanding who you can help, and work with them to steer you to your winning product.
(Read the full transcript on the episode page)
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
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The ingredients for a successful business using a chocolate base We're Making Conversations about young entrepreneurs Count! With Louis Barnett. "There are two categories of people that are involved in sustainability: those that really care or those that want to be seen to care....."
Louis Barnett, Making Conversations Count (December 2021)
(Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here)
Choclopreneur Louis Barnett founder of Chokolit - and developer of the "Chocolate Box Methodology" in business has a very different approach thanks to his work with mentors.
After starting out as a young entrepreneur at 14 years old, Louis now works with SME's across the UK helping them with their strategy and growth.
Having already been recognised with a Lord Carter award for his contributions to food and drink industry, his credibility has skyrocketed.
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, Louis says he was an entrepreneur by default not by chosen career path!
Louis Barnett: "I think I was very much an entrepreneur by default.
I think that of a lot of entrepreneurs, especially now.
It was just I loved, and I was pretty good at eating chocolate, so that helped, fell into making stuff for family and friends and then it just snowballed.
But it certainly wasn't a conscious decision of, 'Right, let's start this business and make some money and create a career' ".
(Read the full transcript on the episode page at https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/)
Chocolate and business The chocolate industry is a great place to learn about business, and Louis Barnett has been doing just that since the age of 14.
Now he's helping other young entrepreneurs achieve their dreams by using his experience in chocolate as a benchmark for teaching his mentees about his 'chocolate box methodology'!
Is Britain culturally integrated enough? During this episode, while Making Conversations about young entrepreneurs Count, Louis offered his views on how Britain should do more to become culturally integrated and how the rest of the world puts us to shame on the world business stage.
"Louis Barnett: I really wished that somehow Britain was more culturally integrated, even with Europe, that we had more focus on foreign languages, and I think you pick up little bits of different languages and I had all kinds of different phrasebooks in different countries. I am probably not as practised anymore, but at one point I could get around and do most things in Spanish and hold a very basic conversation."
(Read the full transcript on the episode page at https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/)
(Strapped for data? You can hear a lower-bandwidth version of the episode here)
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Here are the links just in case you need them:
YouTube
Making Conversations about mental wealth Count! How fit for purpose are YOU? Have you made the necessary transitions to preserve your mental wealth? "Asking for help is NOT a weakness. We cannot do this thing called life, in isolation, on our own...."
Mke Pagan, Making Conversations Count (November 2021)
Transitioning In this episode of the Making Conversations Count podcast, Mike Pagan - author of "Stop Faffing About" - talks to us all about the importance of investing in the necessary graft, research, and planning, to align ourselves with the right support systems.
How is it important to work with the right people to expose ourselves to new thought processes that break us free from habits that have been learned over time and sometimes through failure?
What IS mental wealth? How seriously should we be taking it?
Is it something that should be taken into serious consideration in our business lives as well as our home lives?
Having a conversation about mental wealth with Mike Pagan, motivational speaker, author, and swimmer, will be deep-down good for you!
How about this for a tantalising reason to listen?
Are you trying to give up smoking? Lose weight?
Mike offers a terrific example of why saying "I want to give up smoking" won't necessarily work.
Listen to the story he tells of how his wife used another angle when it came to helping a loved one kick the habit.
Get Mike's guide to understanding what mental wealth is, here.
(10 minutes in)
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Giving resilience its real meaning - finding the positives in 'hell'. In this powerful episode of "Making Conversations Count" we're talking about what is the real meaning of the word 'resilience'. "Despite the disabilities, the life-changing injuries, et cetera... it's still one of the best things ever to happen to me in my life because of the difference I've been able make to others...."
Roger Cheetham, Making Conversations Count (November 2021)
Surviving the unsurvivable As an unexpected wave of events, including traumatic experiences, strikes our lives, we are often left wondering how will I get through this.
How am I meant to cope?
Will it ever end?
Am I going to survive?
The process of surviving hell is not simply about repairing the damage caused by the trauma itself.
It also involves building resilience.
Finding deep within yourself that something which makes you able to move on with your life despite all odds.
What is resilience? We can all think of resilience examples that we've witnessed in our lives, but as host Wendy Harris discovered, the one featured in this episode is next-level!
We can guarantee that you're going to be blown away.
It's really important that you listen, because once you have, you're going to feel extremely empowered.
A difficult conversation that counts As you will now know if you've listened before, we like to hear the pivotal moment as a raw and real-time conversation, while recording it.
We didn't talk about Roger's life before we recorded yet Wendy says she can accept that she knew that his story was meant to be featured as its the very essence of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast's theme.
Listen in to hear how Roger tells us all about how he came to be the inspirational speaker for our children and entrepreneurs he is today.
How we're making the conversations about resilience count Roger gets us thinking about what it can be like to be challenged in an extreme way in what you thought was your safe place.
When there are no signs or indications that anything is wrong .
Roger takes us on the journey with him as he recounts not just one conversation that quite literally acted as a turning point in his life.
Check out this must listen episode now, as Roger tells the story of how he found himself mentoring 'problem' people and transforming their lives.
After you've listened, we think you'll agree - Roger is the leader of resilience.
"Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
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Why you should be using video for your business marketing - Making Conversations about video Count! This episode of "Making Conversations Count" is all about the importance of using video in your inbound marketing. "People ignore emails. People don't pick up the phone. ..."
(Hear Simon's solution for this at 23 minutes into the episode) -
Simon Banks, Making Conversations Count (November 2021)
There's a video! And THERE'S a video! And a video. And a video....
Actually, no, there's not always video out there, everywhere you look.
Not yet at least.
It may sometimes feel like that when scrolling through your social media feed.
But that's only because of the algorithms.
Algos LOVE video.
And this is why a lot of podcasts use video for promotional reasons.
If we didn't, you'd never know about us.
Yep, one thing's for sure - videos are becoming more important for business marketing than ever before.
(At the very least, everyone should be using an explainer video on their website)
This episode of "Making Conversations Count" explains why this is happening, and what it means for your inbound marketing strategies, too...
It's important to note that video marketing is definitely not just for big business. You don't need an elaborate Hollywood studio set-up to pull it off.
That said, the video marketing pros might have some advice if you're looking to 'up' your video game!
And if there's a video marketing pro who can do that for you, it's Simon Banks from "Get Video Right".
For example, there's an argument to be made for using video over ALL other marketing platforms due to the fact video uses more than one of our senses, and that makes customers happy.
(In addition to Simon's comments, for even further clarity on that you can also check out this article that's all about it.)
Simon knows his stuff.
His long list of credentials include projects working with Sir Elton John, David Beckham, and even 007 himself, Pierce Brosnan!
Find out more about how Simon has made a successful career out of video, and what it can do for you, in this episode...
TLdr: using video for your business marketing helps customers engage with you - and want to buy from you (if that's your goal) - because video tells a story.
And stories are engaging.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
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Making Conversations About Taking Action Count! It's lights, camera, ActionCOACH! "Ultimately, when you wanna leave a legacy, you've got to look at three main aspects..."
(Hear what they are at 14 minutes into the episode) -
Brad Sugars, Making Conversations Count (November 2021)
It's quite common knowledge that business owners often make business mistakes.
Sometimes they're very obvious and other times they're easy-to-miss business mistakes.
One such business mistake that's probably the most detrimental one you can make, is not creating goals and not having a vision or a path in mind to reaching them.
In this knowledge-packed episode, the world's No.1 Business Coach, Brad Sugars talks Wendy Harris' 'conversations fans' through the process of reaching those business goals using formulas.
Formulas are where Brad excels, and he uses them in every aspect of his life, including when it comes to his most important duty - being a family man.
Talking of his formulas, you can benefit from them, for yourself!
For the same cost of every streaming service in existence you can choose to stop being distracted by nonsense, and enjoy Brad's successful training programmes:
30X Business
30X Life
30X Wealth
Oh, and without giving too much of a spoiler, part of Brad's conversation that counted led to him using this app which he mentions in the episode.
(In case the podcast app you're reading this on has stripped the link - it's called "Headway" and you can get it here: https://apps.get-headway.com/)
Brad's success as the world's most trusted and knowledgeable business coach has enabled him to launch a foundation for young people, in which all the learning is FREE.
Throughout his career, Brad Sugars has always strived to always do better and his worldwide network of coaches offer 'Coaching for A Cause'.
He's also very open in his acknowledgement and praise for his mentor Jim Rohn, who he credits a lot of his success to.
If that isn't enough of a reason to listen, Brad offers some incredible advice about how people should be using social media, and how you can consume a book worth of knowledge in just one day.
We also learn just how many telemarketing calls Wendy has made during her career as a leading specialist in telemarketing training, and why this show loves Romania and Dominica!
About Brad:
Internationally known as one of the most influential entrepreneurs, Brad Sugars is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and the #1 business coach in the world.
Over the course of his 30-year career as an entrepreneur, Brad has become the CEO of 9+ companies and is the owner of the multi million-dollar franchise ActionCOACH®.
As a husband and father of five, Brad is equally as passionate about his family as he is about business. That's why, Brad is a strong advocate for building a business that works without you - so you can spend more time doing what really matters to you.
Over the years of starting, scaling and selling many businesses, Brad has earned his fair share of scars. Brad has got the battle wounds from fighting great ideas and also not-so-fond memories of losing some of those battles. But he also knows the thrill of having great successes.
Being an entrepreneur is not an easy road.
But if you can learn from those who have gone before you, it becomes a lot easier than going at it alone. That’s why Brad has created 30X: Revolutionize Your Life – It’s 30 minutes a day for 90 days, teaching you his 30 years experience on investing, business and life.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
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Making Conversations About Social Media Scrolling Count!
"It's the willingness to take constructive criticism..." -
Rob Illidge, Making Conversations Count (October 2021)
"We don't deliver social - we define it."
This was the brand message that Rob Illidge was pushing out that led to Wendy Harris - the conversation Queen - wanting to have him on this podcast.
As a highly experienced telemarketing trainer and expert in using conversations for sales, Wendy is only too aware of the power of social in modern-day business.
We've had a few people on the "Making Conversations Count" podcast talking about social media....
(Did you catch Dan Knowlton in episode 45?)
The difference with this one, is that Rob is just like you and I.
He's had to work hard to get where he is, starting alone, and working long hours to get started.
Social is a huge part of digital marketing right now.
Not only for social proof but also to reach the audience you want.
Brands are hungry for engaging content that consumers want to join in with.
It's like sparking a networking meeting conversation, only with strangers, online.
Rob tells his story which involved the "pursuit of happyness" and grafting away, largely unsupported.
And the fact that he was spending a lot of his early days on the telephone having the conversations... well, you can probably get an idea for the relatability here.
In this episode Rob Illidge from Social Republic talks Wendy through how brands can use social scrolling as part of their social strategy.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Processes Count!
"Processes help us scale..." -
Jon Ferrara, Making Conversations Count (October 2021)
How are you building your brand?
Hopefully you're using conversations?
I mean, we all have business conversations but where do you keep track of them?
You're probably having conversations across email, social and even through Google, using either Google My Business or your website.
There's only so many our own brains can store before it gets all-a-jumble.
Getting help with this leans towards software assistance and following a process.
Databases aren't sexy and let's face it, there are plenty out there to choose from but picking the right one will be the difference for growth.
We usually turn to CRM software.
And normally when salespeople think of CRMs they think 'sales'.
The majority might automate lead nurturing, but sales is still considered their main priority.
So how do you best nurture the 'touches' - the human and conversational aspect of doing business?
As a telemarketing trainer, this podcast's host Wendy Harris is a busy business owner herself, and so she's also been facing this challenge.
Recently she's been made aware of the Nimble CRM which has been started up by her associate Jon Ferrara.
He's adamant he can help her with her business processes and sales conversations, by using Nimble instead of Salesforce.
And when she's promised that something can help her with her sales conversations, she's all ears.
Her background includes being a telemarketing trainer, author and speaker on sales processes improvement.
And her mission is making sales people better at engaging prospects through to closing deals faster, over the phone, with less effort.
So that's why this conversation with Jon Ferrara was a must for her to have.
Hopefully you'll agree it's also a must listen.
Especially if your sales team could do with a better handle on sales processes and a way of keeping a record of sales conversations.
Jon's sales platform is called Nimble, which he developed after his previous CRM GoldMine (which was successful) was bought out.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Investing Count!
In this episode investment expert Andrew Stotz - who's just "the worst" (not really, you'll have to listen to find out what we did there!) - has a conversation that counts with Wendy all about the financials in business.
We learn all about how investing with your head instead of your heart is beneficial.
Andrew explains how important it is to think carefully about employee incentive schemes, and KPIs - or key performance indicators.
And he also gets into his success formula - L-R / F-P. (Oh yes! Serious take away here for you)
Of course this episode covers the importance of investing in the future, investing in employees, investing in good financial reporting.
And how Andrew's LR / FP investment strategy works for ASIR clients, when they have a company that has potential for growth and development - something we need to invest our time and attention into!
And he talks us through his process for going through all the numbers and figures to get a full picture on a company's finances.
Oh, and did you know Wendy featured on Andrew's podcast once? You can hear that, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Engineering Count!
"Your marketing needs to reduce the perceived risk at every stage of their buying decision...' -
Ros Conkie,
Making Conversations Count,
October 2021.
Marketing strategies are always changing, and new distracting tools are always surfacing to distract us!
With marketing always evolving it's important to always revisit your own marketing strategies and tactics to match your marketing goals.
To many of us, when we think of marketing tactics, we're thinking of old marketing. Tired marketing.
Marketing dating back years.
And if that's you, maybe it's time for an update on your own marketing plan.
So, now we know that your marketing could possibly do with a fresh 'lick of paint', what will you do about it?
You jump on the phone and call up your marketing team of course! Right? Right?? Well, maybe.
But that's not what we're doing here on this episode of "Making Conversations Count."
What we're doing here today is talking to Ros Conkie about how to investigate your marketing so you know if it can produce results or not.
We all want more ROI (return on investment) in every part of our marketing.
And Ros will walk us through that process in this episode.
If you do the marketing, or even if a marketing team does it for you, it's important to have your plan in order!
You need to know exactly what marketing is being done.
How much it costs.
How it contributes towards the growth of your business!
Wendy's spoken before on "Making Conversations Count" about marketing strategy with many guests, in particular the master of marketing, Dan Knowlton!
Wendy absolutely loved that episode because she had an open and frank discussion about how Knowlton approach marketing strategy and where business owners go wrong with their marketing. You definitely need to listen to that one (episode number 45), here.
But for this episode we're not talking about approaching a new marketing strategy.
Instead, we're talking about how to analyse your own marketing!
You've likely already got some marketing channels in place: maybe you're on social media or you have an email list?
But do you know how effective it actually is; are you wasting money getting involved in these marketing channels?
Or are they worth your while?
This is exactly what this episode of "Making Conversations Count" with Ros Conkie will help you figure out!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right?
Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Laughter Count!
Listen to the end of the episode for Pete's extra special birthday offer
You'll need to email Wendy with the code!
"By having a laughter session you can actually zone out for ten or fifteen minutes...' -
Pete Cann,
Making Conversations Count (special birthday episode),
September 2021.
Reasons to be cheerful, part two!
In this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast, it's host Wendy Harris' birthday!
It's been a big year for Wendy professionally, as you would have heard from her previous episodes.
Because of the nature of this being a time for celebration, the whole Making Conversations Count team thought who better to get on the show, than the master of fun and laughter himself, THE 'Laughterman' Pete Cann.
Pete describes how a visit to the WOMAD Festival put him on the path to honing his skill for using laughter as a tool.
Since that day, he's continuously developed his skills and grown his business around 'Laughter Yoga', and teaching others the value of laughter-driven productivity.
There have been studies that have shown laugher contributes towards wellbeing so we feel it is our duty to support him in bringing awareness of 'Laughter Yoga' to as many workplaces as possible!
There are so many benefits to encouraging laughter at work!
Many of the studies have shown that laughter reduces stress, helps employees bond more closely with each other and most importantly leads to increased creativity.
Cultures who laugh together stay together!
Remember, listen to the very end of the episode so that you can get the birthday themed code word.
Once you have it, email Wendy directly to grab your FREE laughter session with the 'Laughterman', Pete Cann!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Motivation Count!
Larry's free motivating success tips available in the show notes.
Scroll down to grab it!
"What you put out there is generally what you receive so if you're a negative nancy.... it's kinda like Sweet Georgia Brown - 'ain't nobody got time for that!'..." -
Larry Long Jr,
Making Conversations Count, September 2021.
Imagine you are the most knowledgeable person in the world when it comes to motivation.
You have motivation to spare, motivation everywhere, motivation coming out of your ears.
Or maybe motivation coming out of your gold coloured microphone!?
What would people ask you about motivation?
What's one thing they'd want to know about motivation?
They're going to ask you where motivation comes from, where it lives in us, how we get more of it. So if this were true - what advice would you give them?
And this is what this episode is all about.
Motivating.
Reasons to be cheerful?! Part One!
This episode is part of a double whammy of positive ones we've been planning a while.
All will be revealed by the end of the episode...
Larger than life Larry Long Jr has had a blessed life, his father was a professional sportsman.
You can imagine the work ethic, as a child growing up. Yes, it was strong.
Yet there's something to be said for being part of a team that wins together and sometimes fails together.
It's what you do to motivate yourself (and others) that counts.
Energy is at the heart of everything and it's our responsibility to control it.
There'll be times in life when we need some help,
Wendy has first hand experience of this.
We can ask for help.
It's what makes us stronger.
Listen to this episode, and Larry will share some deeper dive thoughts on how to use energy to propel yourself, and others. towards positive change.
Want to get Larry's free motivating success tips offering for this episode?
Grab it here.
Trust us, it's well worth it.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Networking Count!
"We don't pass business cards at our meetings, we don't allow it. But business is constantly happening because people like each other..." -
Joe Chatham,
Making Conversations Count, September 2021.
If there's one thing we've all had to learn to do in the past year, it's how to overcome that awkwardness while networking over a screen.
It's not as easy as some might think, to build a reputation with relationship marketing.
Yet, if anyone can speak to it, it's this episode's guest!
Joe Chatham is the founding father of USA500Clubs, a growing network of 'white collar' professionals across the coastline from California to Boston and in between.
After spending 25 years in the mortgage brokerage industry running a successful practice Joe navigated two recessions and knew the landscape was changing.
In this episode, Joe offers a lot of insight and wisdom in terms of how networking should go, and how we should behave.
Even during those awkward moments that only participating in a video call while working from home can throw up!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Jargon Count!
"If I'm trying to explain that, then it's up to me to try and explain it in as simplistic a language as possible..." -
Ann Page,
Making Conversations Count, September 2021.
When you're making conversations with your customers, are you doing so using jargon they're probably not going to understand?
Most of us are probably guilty of assuming our customers know what we're talking about when we use acronyms.
After all, they must have done their research before talking to us, right?
Sadly, you might be risking putting some of your biggest and best customers off by using too much jargon!
After heading up the legal department of the Co-Operative Bank, This episode's guest headed up the legal department of the Co-Operative Bank, and on that journey, actually ended up helping the legal industry to become more approachable.
Solicitors speak the language of the law which is full of jargon. Unfortunately, anyone who's spent any amount of time with their lawyer has probably thought to themselves, 'what does that actually mean?'
This is where Ann Page has dedicated her career in training over 7000 lawyers in leadership, management and interpersonal skills both in the UK and internationally.
Her book 'Business Skills? Don't be daft I'm a Lawyer!' is endorsed by Managing Partners of regional branches of The Law Society and is packed with insightful observations.
But Ann's path to becoming a lawyer was not a simple one.
As we'll soon discover during this particular conversation that counts...
Want to buy Ann's book? You can do so here.
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About Social Selling Count
"You need to know who you're speaking to...so much has changed in terms of the customer journey..." -
Sudhir Kumar,
Making Conversations Count, September 2021.
When you think about the term social selling, you'd be forgiven for thinking, "oh, that thing people do on Linkedin."
This episode's guest puts forward a valid argument for thinking beyond the obligatory posts on social media.
In this episode Wendy talks with Sudhir Kumar who is the author of "Being Human".
Sudhir reflects on how the landscape for communication has changed with the addition of technology.
And he explains how it's more important than ever before to be human...
As you'll know by now, Wendy is all about the importance of conversations in business.
Therefore, you'll be unsurprised to learn it's music to her ears when Sudhir talks about how vital it is to understand who you want to start conversations if you want your marketing and subsequent sales to succeed!
Listen to learn how spending the time up front to be able to identify your buyers, will define your outcomes.
Other links:
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/sudhirkumarorigin/
Twitter – @sud_origin
Email – sud@origingrowth.co.uk
Book page – www.sudkumar.co.uk
Website – www.origingrowth.com
Have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
If you need a little more hand-holding, you'll be pleased to know that Wendy offers real-time dynamic one-to-one advice.
At the very least, you should probably take the 'Telephone Influencer Test'!
It's really useful for getting an idea for how you're doing when it comes to converting, effective telephone communication.
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About advertising Count
"We in the past have made the mistake of not having those conversations to really understand what the customer wants..." -
Dan Knowlton,
Making Conversations Count, August 2021.
If you've been anywhere near Linkedin in the past year, you'll no doubt have seen the fun content that Dan Knowlton has been responsible for.
Dan's also a massive star on Twitter.
Have you seen the funny duo who have worn wigs and parodied classic ads such as the Cillit Bang commercial?
That's Dan and his brother Lloyd.
In this episode Wendy talks with Dan about his humble beginnings and how he's learned to grow his business into the marketing powerhouse it's now become.
Wendy had a number of big marketing takeaways from this episode - and if you're also looking to "stop the scroll", you'd best listen!
Oh, and if you're panicking because you haven't got your bum into gear on a business plan... this episode might well leave you feeling reassured.....
Other links:
Facebook - Knowlton Marketing
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/danknowlton1/
TikTok - Dan Knowlton (@danknowlton)
Have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
If you need a little more hand-holding, you'll be pleased to know that Wendy offers real-time dynamic one-to-one advice.
At the very least, you should probably take the 'Telephone Influencer Test'!
It's really useful for getting an idea for how you're doing when it comes to converting, effective telephone communication.
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About ego Count
"It's more our understanding of what's going on, than trying to fight it, or bypass it." - Rob Begg,
Making Conversations Count, August 2021.
Admit it, you've said, "I'm not good enough", more than once right?
Self-belief is one of our biggest challenges in business, and you can read more about it in Wendy's best selling book, which you can order here.
It can take many guises -imposter syndrome... self limiting beliefs.
Whatever it sounds like in your own brain, this episode will definitely help you.
Rob Begg is a truly inspirational fella. He talks about non-duality.
You'll need to listen to the episode to hear about how it needs to be understood so you can know how to get what you want.
If ever there was someone who spoke reason that you should listen to, it is indeed Rob Begg.
In this episode Wendy asks Rob lots of questions around how our ego and beliefs get in the way of our desires.
There are common mischievous beliefs that you'll recognise:
"I'm not good enough. I don't deserve it or I need to wait until the timing is right."
You need to stop that right now.
Have you said this to yourself or someone else recently?
Listen to the end and you'll know how to get started on the correct path.
Have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
If you need a little more hand-holding, you'll be pleased to know that Wendy offers real-time dynamic one-to-one advice.
At the very least, you should probably take the 'Telephone Influencer Test'!
It's really useful for getting an idea for how you're doing when it comes to converting, effective telephone communication.
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making Conversations About relationships Count
There's nothing quite as exciting as having a conversation with a TEDx speaker! And this episode features a really impactful one!
Have you heard of 'elegant assertiveness'?
It can be taught to help break free from toxic relationships.
In this episode, 'life liberator' Ruth Driscoll speaks about how using a dialogue framework can build confidence and start to erode the controlling behaviour we may find ourselves falling foul of.
There's also the silent conversation.
What is not said that comes through our body language and expressions.
Walking away from relationships without resolving the problem can be harmful when you enter into new relationships. Ruth helps understand the vulnerability you could be subject to from past experiences and how to solve and break the cycle.
It will be of no surprise that Ruth began her journey in helping others after coming through her own toxic relationship.
She's a successful leader herself, and you'll find plenty of insight in this episode as she explains how toxic relationships can extend beyond the home, and be found with anyone in your life: your partner, your boss, a family member or friend.
Ruth's mission now is to help people avoid the catalytic moment she went through herself.
What's New Wendywoo?
There's a shout of for listener Cat, regarding Wendy's book.
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
If you need a little more hand-holding, you'll be pleased to know that Wendy offers real-time dynamic one-to-one advice.
At the very least, you should probably take the 'Telephone Influencer Test'!
It's really useful for getting an idea for how you're doing when it comes to converting, effective telephone communication.
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about social selling count!
Are you hoping to generate business leads on Linkedin?
There's a correct way, and a wrong way of doing it!
We're guessing you've probably had at least one person send you a DM out of the blue, trying to sell you something.
It's really common, even though it's well known that sending a cold pitch DM doesn't work with the majority of people.
In this episode, 'Conversations Queen' Wendy Harris is joined by her 'Twin' from the USA, Brynne Tillman, who got our Wendywoo's attention with her strapline:
"converting connections to conversations"....
These two ladies of have a deep conversation all about LinkedIn, sharing strategy and approaches that will help you use the platform in a human way.
When it comes to conversation starting, this episode will give you lots of ideas to go away to try yourself.
A mini masterclass in a podcast.
Check out Brynne's "Social Sales Link" membership programme.
Contact Brynne:
https://twitter.com/BrynneTillman
Clubhouse @BrynneTillman
Brynne.Tillman@socialsaleslink.com
Click here for Brynne's Social Selling training offers.
Have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about hypnosis count!
Look into my eyes! You will feel very sleepy!
You guessed it, we're having one of our many conversations that count with hypnosis star Jonathan Chase.
Our conversations Queen Wendy Harris really enjoyed this conversation.
Jonathan's not your typical podcast interview guest.
He shares with us his journey starting out in the working men's clubs with his stage act.
He talks about how he identified a reality where he could use his skills to help people.
And when we say help, we mean really help. This isn't just about some easy peasy quit smoking or fear of flying stuff.
As an author of many books including our favourite 'How to make friends with yourself and influence people', Jonathan has the following philosophy; “Life shouldn’t be a battle to be fought, Life should be an experience to be enhanced.”
#SmilesJonC
A career highlight has to be when he wrote, directed, produced and played in ‘The Marvellous Mechanical Mesmerist’; Britain’s first play where the hypnotised audience played the characters.
The Arts Council funded the project and it premiered at the Edinburgh Festival in 2017 with all cast members being wheelchair users.
Jonathan himself is a 'POW: Person On Wheelchair'
You're going to love this conversation as it twists and turns.
Making conversations about pricing count!
"We remember our favourite teacher, and we remember the one we absolutely hated. But the middle ones were just 'there'!"- Stella Da Silva, Making Conversations Count, July 2021.
We can all conjure up in our minds the teacher who made a difference for us at school.
They were our best friend.
They encouraged us.
But ultimately we had the utmost respect for them.
When we are inspired we are driven to always do better and that's exactly what our #KeepItStellaliciouslySimple guest Stella da Silva brings to the conversation in this episode.
The official #TrollSlayer and #MomOfMedia Stella is an infectious trainer, she calls out others to question their choices and points out that is also how she continues to learn too.
Among the many pearls of wisdom to be enjoyed during this chat, Wendy learns about why Stella has a very specific intention when she's dealing with online trolls.
What's New Wendywoo?
Faye in Doncaster emailed about Wendy's book (still available for purchase - link at makingconversationscount.studio/podcast) and there's a huge thank you to Lizzie for this!
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about pricing count!
"They wanted their staff to understand instruction, but not be.... if you like, talked at....." - Jennie Eriksen, Making Conversations Count, July 2021.
This episode's guest has been both a successful magazine owner for local businesses, as well as a voice over artist, specialising in shaping e-learning.
Using our voice is a powerful tool that can convey many emotions and Jennie Eriksen compels people to listen and engage with hers.
She helps her intended listener to learn by being able to bring characters to life.
A huge proportion of the preparation for voiceover work is in the research and how the key message is delivered.
And this is where Jennie stands out. She does not cut corners with this.
During this chat, Wendy learns about the importance of presenting ourselves correctly at networking and how 150 words per minute should be the framework to create a great first impression.
Jennie also shares how her conversation was affected through a rare illness, and there's a connection with the movie Brain on Fire.
What's New Wendywoo?
There are mentions for Charlie in Dunstable, and regular Making Conversations Count listener, Wolfie!
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about pricing count!
"What I do is I try to show people how to create the perfect win-win! One of the big frustrations with small businesses is the amount of time they spend in meetings that don't convert to new business...." - Ian Genius, Making Conversations Count, July 2021.
Pricing a solution can be really tricky to quantify and often leaves the seller worrying no one is ever going to buy something at such a cost.
Thankfully, you're about to get a total change in perspective, once you've listened to this episode of the "Making Conversations Count" podcast!
You've just got to hear Ian Genius and his approach to how you price your service.
At times while you're listening it may feel uncomfortable but that's okay because he's helping you already...
Oh, and that's not to mention his very interesting conversation with an old lady involving a tough sales negotiation...
As an added bonus, you can download Ian's free guide to impacting your sales here.
Wendy mentions the recent guest appearance on the Master Mindset show with previous show guests Nat Schooler and Kim Adele.
Want to watch it?
Click here.
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about family count!
"It's very much a mindset shift that sometimes required.
And then it just clears the mental fog.
And then people are in a position to say, 'right, okay, let's interrogate every aspect of the business.
We don't care how it makes us look let's see what we need to do and turn over every stone to find how we can improve things and how we can reduce costs without cutting into the muscle and flesh of the business.'
But also how can we take opportunities? Because there's always opportunities that are not being taken advantage of." - Graham Nash, Making Conversations Count - Episode No. 37.
This week we have BNI superstar, business, and family man, Graham Nash joining Wendy in conversation.
Graham has worked in many fields over the years and the one common denominator that links his roles has been helping business turnaround.
It’s thanks to Graham that this show was able to make conversations about networking count when Wendy spoke to Dr Ivan Misner!
Graham puts family above all things after a very close call.
A doting Dad to three small children, he shares how his wife suffered post pregnancy and how one child needed specialist medical care.
Whilst he was worrying about all this he was also the owner of several successful businesses.
In this conversation Graham shares how he learned the hard way about how he had to learn to put himself first after some shocking news... Also....
Wendy was a guest on Andrew Stotz show 'My Worst Investment Ever'
Check out episode 408 to hear her story and then search the rest of the episodes for other financial tips and advice.
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about independence count!
David Smith is a wheelchair inspiration, MBE and world champion at Boccia.
What's Boccia? Good question! Wendy had exactly the same one!
The activity was put on the map by David's unyielding training and attitude towards a sport he loves.
As a result, he's ready to forgive anyone who has to Google it!
In this episode we are going on a journey together to see the world through 'Smithy's eyes.
From his encouragement at Treloar's (https://www.treloar.org.uk/) through to his legacy at the Beijing games, this is a must listen to episode.
During this conversation, David explains how he doesn't let his disability hold him back and how he can even beat a London taxi...
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about branding count
Branding should be who you are, how you dress and how you communicate.
Yet, often design can be fractured and the impact is lost.
That's why we invited Marina Hauer to talk to us about how important it is to be well dressed, know who you are and be in alignment with what you say in all places.
Knowing that we humans want to be part of a tribe yet also strive to be individual it can be a fine balancing act.
Through the conversations Marina has with her clients she is able to communicate this with their branding.
A chance conversation at a camera club began Marina's journey into self employment...you'll have to listen to find out what happened next!
How about some useful links from the episode?
Check out Marina's Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/marina-hauer/
Her website https://apricity.studio/
You can book a free 30-minute Brand Clarity Call http://apricity.studio/book/
Here's the really good stuff! Get your Definitive Guide to Re-Branding your Coaching Business https://mailchi.mp/8140f6ec8b07/rebrandingguide
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Wendy often mentions the letter to listeners and the resources on offer. You can find all of this good stuff, here.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!!
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here!
Follow the show on Spotify, here!
You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!
Just in case:
YouTube
Making conversations about leadership count
If you don't believe in yourself how do you expect others to?
This was a question and topic that surfaced during this powerful and insightful conversation with Kim-Adele Platts.
Kim is a business partner of previous guest Nat Schooler who you may remember from the recent special episode where he interviewed Wendy!
Among her many interesting takes, she suggests that being a leader does not come from having a degree.
True leadership comes with aligning your beliefs with the people around you.
It creates a culture of communication and confidence.
Getting the best from your team is not about your customers being sold to; rather encouraging their need to buy from you from having invested in you and the long term value they will acquire as a result.
During this conversation, Kim-adele talks about how we can sometimes 'Primark' compliments.
She also mentions the importance of viewing everything from a different viewpoint and gives a great analogy to demonstrate that.
She also offers a surprising and interesting fact regarding how quickly people make decisions.
We think you'll agree, in this episode, Wendy Harris our "Conversations Queen" lived up to her nickname once again, with one of the most incredible conversations that count, yet!
At the end of the episode, mention is made of a free downloadable book.
You can claim yours here.
In case you're reading this on Apple - copy this link into your browser -
https://makingconversationscount.studio/Kim-Adele-free-book
By the way, have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read-through yet?
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Want to download Kim-Adele's free book that's loaded with leadership tips? Get it here!
In this episode we're making conversations about self-publishing count.
Do you reckon you've got a book in you?
This episode's guest makes it her job to literally coax your book out of you.
There are so many benefits to having your own book out there.
There are far too many to list here, but if you listen to this episode, you'll quickly realise you need to get in touch with Ann Hobbs from Forward Thinking Publishing.
She's helped many people transition from busy business owners to authors, and she could do the same for you.
Have you downloaded the FREE Making Conversations Count downloadable read through yet.
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
If you want to get better on the phone with your prospects, you NEED this guide in your life!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
We're making conversations about self-publishing count, with Ann Hobbs.
What Ann doesn't know about writing books and publishing would probably fit onto one of those tiny plastic book marker page clips.
On Thursday's new episode, she'll take us on her journey, and share with us her insights into how she's managed to make a business out of writing and releasing books.
Make sure you follow the show via your favourite app so you don't miss it!
In this episode we're making conversations about giving count.
When was the last time you gave, freely?
Not for tax reasons. And not because you felt awkward at a raffle.
We could all always do more,
This episode's all about giving back.
Masami Sato is an incredibly inspirational woman.
Having moved on from a career in the catering industry, she's gone on to set up one of the most highly respected and valuable initiatives in global business, B1G1.
Hey, quick question for you!
Do you want to be better on the phone in all aspects of your business? I've put together this FREE downloadable read through for you.
Download it, print it out, and have it by your desk so you can refer to it at any time.
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
In this episode we're making conversations about visual branding count.
Be honest, when you buy stuff online, how much of your decision is based on the pretty pictures?
Visual imagery and video can play a huge part in marketing a business.
That said, it's easy to choose the wrong thing to put in focus. And that's when the 'so what' factor can creep in.
Videographer, film maker and advertising guru Paul Furlong has had a fascination for film and creating story boards since he was a small boy.
It was always a dream and now he's living his dream with Opus Media.
The reality now is that Paul has worked with the TV channels we grew up with including the BBC, ITV & Channel 4.
He's also been involved in directing celebrities so the storyboard works, including John Barnes and the Top Gear team.
In this episode, Paul and Wendy's conversation covers his career in visual branding.
And we find out which one of his conversations he thinks was the one that most counts.
The way you hold your conversations says a lot about you.
But what if you can't use your own voice for your conversations?
What if it's the written word, on your website or on your social media.
Can you be confident that the people who are reading your blog or your marketing messaging on your Linkedin or Facebook pages are actually hearing your voice in their head?
Someone who knows all about the importance of getting the right tone on your content is Sarah Townsend.
Sarah is an expert on freelancing, and has published a book that's all about it.
In this episode, Wendy and Sarah deep-dive the need for understanding and appreciating the value of outsourcing.
This episode also features some exciting Making Conversations Count book related news.
Yet more emails into the show this week, and Wendy reads them.
Missed the previous value packed episodes?
Listen to any of our 'back catalogue' and hear those people making conversations count at any time, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
We have all asked the question 'If not now, when?', right?
That was definitely one that was pondered by author and HR specialist, Mandy Ward.
She turned a difficult situation to her advantage when Covid-19 hit in 2020, by launching her own business "Write My Book".
Mandy is the creator of Oxy the lead character from one of her books 'The Cuddle Monster'.
It's a delightful tale that touches small children and helps shape their confidence through cuddles.
It seems to us that we are all missing cuddles, no matter our age so we are really happy to share this conversation and encourage everyone to cuddle those that we can.
Often!
Wendy is certainly looking forward to her next cuddles.
And she really wants to cuddle everyone who's been sending emails into the show recently.
Thank you for these.
Keep them coming.
We love reading them out on the podcast!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Let's be honest, we'll all be able to relate to this subject... we're making conversations about language count.
Can you speak another language other than your native tongue?
Wendy "Conversations Queen" Harris admitted to the "Making Conversations Count" team that she doesn't, and we can't help but feel she's definitely not alone.
Ray Blakney, Founder of Live Lingua about how his online learning language school sky rocketed in early 2020.
With many professionals furloughed at home with time on their hands, many picked up new hobbies or set themselves new challenges.
Learning a brand new foreign language proved very popular.
Ray shares some insightful tips on how he grew his business so he is not location dependent.
This story in turn leads us nicely into him sharing his contribution to our growing catalogue of career defining conversations!
Missed our previous episodes?
You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here.
If you're on your mobile device, you can hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here.
Making conversations about wealth....and Clubhouse....count!
"We like a bit of woowoo".
You know you're in for a treat when you get to write that quote from Wendy Harris in the show notes.
This episode covers a lot of ground.
Will Polston is someone that impressed Wendy a great deal when she bumped into him on the social audio app "Clubhouse."
In case you're not familiar with it, this Apple exclusive app allows Apple device users to connect with people around the room, using their phone or device's microphone.
It's like being at a conference, listening to speakers and experts from the comfort of your own space, using your phone as the event ticket.
As the Make It Happen CEO, and as an author and coach, Will Polston works with business owners that are stuck in a rut to help them rapidly get clarity, level up a gear and achieve dream results.
Will is a confident, energetic leader that has worked hard to build his own dream life after watching his own peers.
He has not always lived the dream and in this conversation we learn what has driven Will to be the person he is today.
Sharing who has inspired him, who he has wanted to avoid becoming and how that makes him feel today looking back on his achievements.
THIS EPISODE CONTAINS EXCLUSIVE OFFERS SO PLEASE LISTEN THROUGH TO THE END!!
Every business owner knows there's an aspect of marketing and lead-generation that nobody likes.
They also know that to win big and get new customers, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get your cold-calling done.
In this episode, we hear a story of a time when some cold-calling actually panned out very well.
Shout out to Axa UK for their cameo!
At least, it did for "Making Conversations Count" host Wendy Harris.
"Making Conversations Count" is now six months old and to celebrate that milestone (and the show's new website) the behind the scenes team decided to make Wendy escape her comfort zone, and mark the occasion by putting herself forward as a guest on her own podcast!
Over the previous episodes, we've learned so much about the guests, but felt it was time we learned more about Wendy herself.
A couple of emails later, and popular previous guest Nat Schooler agreed to help us turn the tables on Wendy, and actually hosted the show for us!
Thank you, Nat. We really appreciate you taking time out to host this, and help tell Wendy's story!
Follow Wendy on social media:
Insta
Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business!
If you listened through to the episode while you were doing something else, and you didn't get a chance to grab a pen, here are the links you need!:
Buy the book.
Get the power up offer (£50 OFF!)
Find all of Wendy's offers and resources.
Most business owners hate marketing. That's probably because they don't understand it.
Someone who does get marketing is Jonny Cooper, and even he can't stand it! In fact, he despises it so much, he built a business around it.
Welcome to Jonny Hates Marketing!
This week we're making conversations about messaging count. Messaging is so important to get correct. Your entire marketing voice depends on it. That's why you need to listen very carefully to Jonny Cooper.
Jonny comes from a consumer background and brings a new twist for host Wendy. This was a conversation that really counted for her!
Jonny is easy to listen to, easy to get along with and easy to learn from too.
Jonny explains how important it is that when trying to get new customers for yourself, you need to be crystal clear in your conversations with yourself first. If you don't, you'll lose a great referral.
Have a listen to Jonny's messages about messaging and then let Wendy know what your key takeaway is, via her social channels!
Follow Wendy on social media:
Insta
Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business!
We will all eventually lose our parents. Sadly, it's a part of life.
Not many of us have to suffer that loss at the tender age of just six.
We couldn't think of a nicer guy to help us with our goal of making conversations about ideas count.
Truly, if anyone can hold a conversation about ideas, it's Nik Venios of the Ideas Agency.
Did you know that NASA has a genius test?
During this episode, you'll find out all about this, and the fascinating stats surrounding it.
Not least fascinating is the surprising revelation about the age group that tops the score board!
There's also something called a conversation safari.
That's a new one on our very own 'Conversation Queen' Wendy Harris!
Yet, it makes perfect sense to get people in your team to have a purposeful conversation to solve the problems that are in actual fact, great gifts.
With references to luminaires like Bowie, Freddie Mercury, Edison this episode is loaded with really interesting insights and valuable conversations surrounding ideas.
We learn how we need creatives to navigate the opportunities waiting for us.
Nik also talks about the Ideas Academy.
Let us know if you find it interesting!
Nik's Mum was poorly when he was 6 years old and he would figure out ways to help her, which leads us to Nik's conversation that counts.
NASA, it seems you missed a trick with our Nik!
Are you new to this show? We're so grateful to you for listening!
While you're here, why not check out previous episodes!
Did you enjoy what you heard? Don't be shy!
Please review the show!
I mean this obviously goes without saying but if you've listened to the show and now you're a fan, you can buy my book here.
Follow Wendy on social media:
Insta
Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business!
Imagine losing your limbs in an accident.
That's a real human test.
Most people would fall into one of two camps.
Feel the loss, and struggle to overcome it, before essentially accepting your 'job lot' and just becoming a bit angry.
Many would. And they'd be forgiven.
Then there are others, who would not let it defeat them, or define them.
Steve Judge is definitely in the latter of the two camps.
In today's episode, Wendy is joined by someone who made her cry after watching them on screen upon winning for Team GB as a Paralympian.
Steve Judge is a legend that leans into adversity.
Following the devastating car accident which left Steve fighting in surgery to save his life, he's made the decision to not lean on his excuses, and instead turn them into challenges.
As a result, he's achieved so much.
Steve opens up on how one conversation made him more determined than ever before.
Wendy has a question for you! Are you brand new to this show?
No? That's great, she really appreciates you listening.
If you've enjoyed what you've heard, would you please click this to leave the show a review?
You have NO idea the difference it makes to this show.
Not only does it help other people discover the show, but it lets us know you're there, listening into my conversations.
And Wendy loves to mention anyone who takes the time to leave her a review!
If you ARE brand new to the show, we just want to let you know how grateful we are to you for listening!
While you're here, why not check out previous episodes!
If you're reading this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and want to learn more about the show, do please check out the show notes!
As well as hosting this podcast Wendy is also a best selling author. You can buy her book by clicking the link below.
Buy Wendy's book.
Follow Wendy on social media:
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Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business!
When we say we're making conversations count, we mean it!
This episode is all about having those kinds of conversations that really do count.
In this episode, Wendy is joined by Online Sales Coach Niraj Kapur from "Everybody works in Sales" a business that helps companies with their sales processes.
Among the many things his website offers:
- Training in proven sales techniques that are making a difference right now in business.
- Interactive sales training with high energy.
- Keeping your team accountable so they make progress and hit their targets.
Niraj also has a bestselling book of the same name.
In it, he hammers home the point that whether we like it or not we all influence decisions around us.
2020 was definitely a pivotal moment for Niraj.
He began living alone after a difficult divorce, losing not only a wife but family and friends in the process.
Niraj then concentrated on his business.
Listen to his story of how he coped, and overcame mental health challenges to come back stronger than ever before.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nkapur/
https://everybodyworksinsales.com/
Are you brand new to this show?
Welcome! And THANK YOU for listening!
While you're here, why not check out previous episodes!
Did you enjoy what you heard? Please review the show!
Want to find out more about this episode or some of the others? Check out the show notes!
Buy my book.
Follow Wendy on social media:
Insta
Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business!
This episode contains one of our most important conversations, so we're definitely going to make it count!
Wendy Harris brings Heidi Medina into the conversation today.
She's a Linkedin expert and business coach who is the exact opposite of the classic 'my way or the highway'.
Whether you meet Heidi online or in person she is the same.
She's conversational, spirited and asks so many questions!
It’s why we knew she’d be perfect for this show that just so happens to be all about conversations!
Heidi has faced many challenges, especially tackling abuse head on, and she explains what happened, in this episode.
Her pivotal moment that created her career defining and reflective turning point is a powerful one.
We think you'll take a lot from this episode, whether you've suffered from abuse, or you know someone who is or has.
It goes without saying that if you are yourself enduring abuse, then please do not suffer in silence.
These people are here to help.
Heidi has some special details to share with you about the launch of her new programme! Find out more here.
Get hold of Heidi's free guide "The 5Cs For Getting You Seen", here!
Use code #WendyIsTheBomb for a 100E discount
Want to become one of the infamous 'mother cluckers'?
Connect with Heidi on Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidimedina/
Brand new to the show?
Check out previous episodes!
Enjoyed what you've heard? Please review the show!
Want to find out more about this episode or some of the others? Check out the show notes!
Buy my book.
Follow Wendy on social media:
Insta
Book a free one to one to find out how Wendy can help improve the conversations in your business.
Ever had what felt like an impossible goal?
One that you know will mean huge sacrifice? It scares the pants off you doubting if you can be an ambitious startup?
Vicki works with entrepreneurs, small business owners and executive leaders who are stuck in their business and need someone as a partner to coach them to their next level of success. Vicki offers growth marketing consultant advice, strategy plans & also organises in-house marketing teams.
One thing about being your own boss means you wear many hats, some are obvious others are not. The people around you will influence results. A fresh insight can be all the difference.
Vicki joins Wendy in one of the most honest conversations we've had on "Making Conversations Count. This conversation is about making the right sacrifices, the a-ha moments and how she found her way through…
A lesson from this episode: Don't settle for what is given to us. We can create our own futures.
Connect with Vicki on LinkedIn
Visit Vicki's website.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Making conversations about partnerships count.
In a Making Conversations Count first, we are joined by two dynamic guests in this episode.
Joining Wendy chatting about all the elements that make up a great debate. You are not going to want to miss the observations with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater around questioning, opinions, debate and discernment that makes for wonderful colourful conversations.
An energetic episode that even features an attempt at a quick rendition of the Pearl & Dean theme tune, ABBA and the Wombles...showing our age!
These ladies have been pioneers in many aspects of life, business and spirituality. It would be impossible for them to pick just one pivotal moment - take a listen and see if you can count how many are shared in this brilliant conversation.
Connect with Taz on LinkedIn.
Connect with Asha on LinkedIn.
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website www.wagassociates.com
#debate #lifestylechoices #worklifebalance #partnerships
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode Nineteen
February 25th 2021
Wendy Harris, Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:10: Accents!
00:03:03: The conversational approach to coaching
00:05:32: Learning not to sit on the fence
00:07:46: Listening skills
00:09:29: Think for yourself
00:10:51: A combined pivotal moment
00:15:39: Asha's pivotal moment
00:19:02: Sharing stories through online content
00:20:10: Taz's pivotal moment
00:22:58: Depression and mental health
00:23:25: Wendy on her pivotal moment
00:26:52: Communication from medical experts
00:29:32: Humour can lighten any subject!
00:31:47: Being labelled with a disease
00:34:26: Laughter impacts your physicality
00:37:29: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: So, welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast that brings you business leaders to share their pivotal moments, a conversation that really has created a turning point in their life or career. Today, we have a Making Conversations Count first, because we have two guests. I'm going to introduce them as I know best, two powerhouses of LinkedIn, which is where I've gotten to know them, and that is Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater. Please introduce yourselves, ladies.
Taz Thornton: Hello!
Asha Clearwater: Hello!
Taz Thornton: Go on, you go first.
Asha Clearwater: No, after you.
Taz Thornton: No, after you.
Asha Clearwater: We could be here a long time. Hello, I'm Asha Clearwater. I'm what I call a Content Coach, and I'm delighted to be here; it's amazing. I run my own business, I have done for about 20 years; how did that happen? Oh my goodness! Obviously started when I was 5 -- yeah, all right, thank you!
Wendy Harris: Time flies when you're having fun!
Asha Clearwater: It does, and that's me. Taz, over to you.
Taz Thornton: I am an award-winning coach, lots of awards, which my PR tells me I need to talk about a lot more; two best-selling books, three more in the pipeline. I do one-to-one coaching with people in business, working predominantly on visibility and personal brand, as well as growth and planning and all of that, rah rah rah! And, on an individual level, I work with people on confidence, empowerment and a lot of spiritual empowerment too. A lot of people are out of alignment and I help them to get that alignment back and feel more energised.
When I'm not doing that, I'm speaking on stages across the world, or teaching other people how to do the same. I've done three TEDx events so far and counting.
Asha Clearwater: And we happen to be married!
Taz Thornton: We do.
Asha Clearwater: We've been together 23 years next year.
Taz Thornton: 23 years next year.
Wendy Harris: So, you were just arguing about that before we came on, as to how long it's actually been. So, it's a miracle!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah. That was our youngest dog, Bailey, barking in the background. I think he's saying I'm right!
Wendy Harris: Yeah, exactly.
Taz Thornton: Don't you be on your mummy's side.
Wendy Harris: He's agreeing with his mummies!
Asha Clearwater: He is, definitely.
Asha Clearwater: But, we've got very similar career paths. When we first got together --
Taz Thornton: Yeah, you could pretty much overlay our CVs; it's really quite freaky. And then, we ended up working in the same place several times over. It was fun when Asha particularly was in the closet and we were having to hide being together; that was good times!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, that was interesting.
Wendy Harris: My greatest fear about having you two on, without seeing you, which is what the listeners are maybe going to have a bit of a challenge, is that you sound so alike. So, it's great that I can see which one of you is actually speaking, because I know.
Asha Clearwater: We've had that actually. A lot of my family members, whenever they've rung up, they've said, "Is that Taz, or is that Asha?" and I can't hear it. Taz, I think, has got more of a Midlands, haven't you?
Taz Thornton: Do you want me to drop back into Brummy; does that help?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, exactly, you've got a bit of that; she has got that.
Taz Thornton: All right.
Asha Clearwater: But, I'm from the South East, so we've got very different accents, potentially.
Taz Thornton: I tend to pick up accents wherever I go, so I've just got a weird mix.
Wendy Harris: I think you kind of mirror each other, and that just shows the closeness of your relationship, I think. I was thinking about it over the weekend thinking, "Oh, I've got that pair on Monday; that will be --"
Asha Clearwater: Double trouble!
Wendy Harris: And, for how we've gotten to know one another online and I know online at some of the networking events, Taz, and some of the empowerment groups that you've got on Facebook, I know I'm a member of those, your conversational approach to everything has really been what has drawn audiences to engage with you and then turned it into clients.
I would say, I'd take it one step further than just being a client relationship, because it's that people meeting likeminded people, and the holistic approach that you both take in your respective roles, that they become more like friends and family?
Taz Thornton: Totally, yeah. There are certain situations, particularly in a coaching scenario where, of course, you need to have very clear boundaries. But, yeah, I'm absolutely committed to putting people first, whether I'm speaking on a stage for thousands of people, or sitting one-to-one with someone; it's always their needs that come first. Sometimes that means that I'll have to push people in a way that they might not enjoy at the time, in order to get the best from them, but I don't think I could do that if I didn't have that approach of showing that I genuinely care about people being able to make proper, genuine, lasting improvement in changing their lives.
It's that framework that enables me to sometimes push people's buttons a little bit, because they know that if they fall, I'll catch them. And, you're very similar with your work, aren't you?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah. I think, for me, because I coach people on particularly writing content, but also speaking it, whether it's video or it's audio or it's written, it's about bringing the true them out in what they're creating. And, sometimes that needs a little bit of a gentle push or prod, and maybe delving into areas of content that they're not sure about or they don't think people are going to be interested in. And, I really work hard to get that through to people, so that we can work as a team to bring that out and bring the best out for them so it's their voice.
So, I'm really passionate about that, having worked in PR, and it's fantastic; there are some great PR agencies out there. But very often sometimes, it can come across as the PR's voice and not the client's voice, and I think that's absolutely crucial for good content and to get that rapport, to build the rapport and to get the kind of reaction and response you want from the audience.
Wendy Harris: It's bringing that personality that you both have, big personalities, and you bring that in. Sometimes I get to the bottom like today, Asha, you know, with getting the keyboard out, I was answering you, I was having the conversation in my head with you. So, by the time I'd got to the bottom of finishing the post, I was kind of like, "What was the question again; I've just answered you?" and now I've got to think what I've got to put in reply.
So, that's what I think connects with people. You're divisive sometimes and that's the pushing that I see, "Is this okay? I'm not sure it is?", so you're questioning, you're constantly questioning and getting people to not sit on the fence so much, which I think is really important.
Taz Thornton: I think, particularly when we're putting ourselves across on a public platform, we've become far too used to sitting on the fence. I think too many of us still have this old kind of 1980s, 1990s business idea that we just need to not offend anybody, because then we'll get more clients.
Well, Marmite gets cited an awful lot. They've built a whole business around people loving them or hating them. I wouldn't mind being 50p behind Marmite in terms of profit.
Wendy Harris: Sure, yeah.
Taz Thornton: So, I think we need to come away from that, I think we need to recognise that beige doesn't offend anybody, but it's nobody's favourite colour either, and we need to get back to who we are; and to go really deep just for a minute, I think that's where social media has kind of messed things up for us a little bit, because the algorithms put us in bubbles with everyone with the same opinion, and we start to believe that our opinion is in the majority.
Where in fact, step out into the real world, and then we'll underpin conflict, because we stop recognising that -- how can I say it in a way that won't get bleeped out? Opinions are like bottom holes; everybody's got one, you know, and we need to remember that it's opinion and we need to be proud of our own opinion. We need to have our opinion, we need to be brave enough to speak it, and that doesn't mean we need to get into conflicts and arguments; it means we can get into discussion and learn from one another, not try and convert somebody to our point of view.
Wendy Harris: Yes, it's a real vegan status, isn't it, you know, "I'm vegan, so you're going to have to be vegan too"; well, it doesn't really go down very well, does it?
Asha Clearwater: And that's the thing, isn't it? Since we've gone vegan, since we've gone plant-based diet, it's that I've noticed that there's a lot of kind of -- you can feel people getting really agitated about it very early on in a conversation. And, that's where I always say to people, "I'm not a political vegan; I did it because of my health". But, even if I was, you know, it's about debate, isn't it; learning how to debate on an issue and not take offence, just listen.
It's those listening skills that you talk about, Wendy, all the time; you know how important that is, really, truly listening.
Wendy Harris: There's equality in everybody's opinion, isn't there? It doesn't mean that you have to agree, but you can agree to disagree and have a broader spectrum of opinions to judge your bias on.
Taz Thornton: Absolutely, and to recognise the difference between discernment and judgement as well. So, for instance, if we just look at someone who has a different opinion and say, "Oh, they're an idiot"; that's judgement. If you say, "Oh well, okay, their opinion is different to mine. It might not be for me, but I wonder why they think that?"; discernment.
Just before lockdown, I remember sitting down with one of my clients and we had absolute polar opposite opinions on Brexit and foxhunting; it was a bit Smith and Jones. We sat opposite each other on this table --
Asha Clearwater: You're showing your age now, Taz.
Taz Thornton: Yeah! We literally said, "Okay, well why do you believe that; and, why do you believe that?" We didn't argue; there was no trying to persuade each other; there were no raised voices; we just listened and learned from one another, and then understood why we both had those opinions. And that was fine.
Wendy Harris: Because some opinions are not even based on fact, are they; they're quite emotive opinions?
Taz Thornton: Yeah, definitely.
Wendy Harris: And, they can even be passed-down opinions. You don't even realise why you've adopted those opinions.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, it's not your opinion in the first place, is it; it's somebody else's opinion that you've --
Wendy Harris: Yeah. So, it's important that we are unpicking a lot of societal constraints; I don't know if that is the right word. But certainly, we are kind of told what to think and where to think it, and this year has opened the chasm to just how wise that is, I think
Taz Thornton: I think that's exactly it. One of my big things, particularly -- well, we both run spiritual empowerment circles together; particularly when I'm sitting in those, and that's a mix of kind of coaching and medicine path and NLP and empowerment, even a bit of fire-walking brings it all together.
But, one of the big elements of that that we're both so passionate about is, we're not here to tell people what to think; we're here to remind you how to think, or just to think. I'll never tell somebody what to believe; I'll say, "Well, there's this, this, this and this, it's up to you".
Wendy Harris: Get them to think what else is there.
Taz Thornton: Precisely. Just scratch the surface a little bit.
Asha Clearwater: It's really important that, I think.
Wendy Harris: Three women agreeing; who'd have thought it?!
Asha Clearwater: Quick, frame it!
Wendy Harris: This is what I love about the guests on the show, is that we all have a passion for that conversation, and to kick-start something. We're kind of little revolutionaries in our own right, aren't we, doing what we do, where we do it and how we do it. So, it's just a delight to be able to chat with you today.
Everybody that comes on the show, I ask them all to have a think about a pivotal moment. Since you are my first duo, I have no idea whether you've picked the same conversation, whether you've got your own individuals, or whether you've just got a bit of a mix. So, who's going to go first?
Taz Thornton: Well, it was a bit of a mix. I think initially, we both came up with one each. But then, one of the pivotal moments for me that crosses over is when we were finally able to legally marry, and we were the first same-sex couple in Lincolnshire that were able to marry.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, we were!
Taz Thornton: And, on my 40th birthday.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Double bubble!
Taz Thornton: 25 years ago now.
Wendy Harris: You don't get that for manslaughter, do you?!
Taz Thornton: Yeah, but we were married 23 years ago, actually.
Wendy Harris: I was going to say, you're wearing well then, Taz, if it was 23 years ago on your 40th. I would never have put you at --
Taz Thornton: I'm 46 now, so 6 years ago. But, what was interesting is when we were booking the wedding, because it was so close to them changing the law --
Asha Clearwater: It was literally like a week.
Taz Thornton: -- the registrar's on the other end of the phone saying, "You mean it's going to be a civil partnership?" "No, marriage". Because, I wanted to do a civil partnership and Asha said, "No, I want to wait until we can get married", and I said, "Don't be ridiculous; it will never happen in our lifetime".
Wendy Harris: And it did!
Taz Thornton: It was difficult to book it, because they didn't have the paperwork through in order to book the ceremony, so it was really, we just scraped under the wire, didn't we?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And it was amazing. I mean, it happened at the time when my mum had just died and I was obviously dealing with that. And although she'd been ill for some time, it's always a shock, isn't it, whatever the circumstances. So, I remember, because that had happened that week, and then I kind of proposed.
You'd been proposing to me for years, hadn't you, and I'd been saying, "Let's just wait, let's just wait" and then that happened and then I proposed to you, and we said, "Let's do it". And it started off as a little ceremony, and then it got bigger, didn't it; I got a bit Bridezilla-like!
Taz Thornton: Well actually, we had two, didn't we, because one in the registry office that we just had fun with, and we did the legal bit there; and we themed it all around our years of birth and the year that we met, so we had Asha 1968; I'm 1974; and then we met in 1998. So, we themed everything. We walked down the aisle to the Pearl & Dean theme tune, you know, the old cinema. Then, we signed the register to Waterloo.
Asha Clearwater: Do you remember the twist, though, with that?
Taz Thornton: Yeah, one of the guests was related to the guy who wrote the theme tune!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, can you believe that!
Taz Thornton: That was Great Uncle, whatever it was, "What? Really?" and we thought she was winding us up, but no! Then we signed the register to Waterloo by Abba, which was 1974 --
Asha Clearwater: Because, I love Abba. I know you love it or hate it.
Taz Thornton: Asha's a massive Abba fan.
Asha Clearwater: I am a massive Abba fan.
Taz Thornton: But, we bought those kids plastic echo mikes and put them on the seats, so made everybody do karaoke to it while we were doing the register.
Wendy Harris: Brilliant!
Taz Thornton: And then, we walked out to the Wombles.
Asha Clearwater: We did.
Taz Thornton: But then, the second day, right, we've done the kind of small --
Asha Clearwater: [Humming a tune]
Taz Thornton: That's the one! So, we had the limited numbers to that. So, we had the wedding in the morning, then we just had a kind of big, group meal in the evening for my birthday; we split the day. And the next day, we had our woodland, not quite a handfasting; it was our spin on a handfasting.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, so kind of quite Shamanic, wasn't it? Lots of drums, lots of singing.
Taz Thornton: We just put a note out to our friends on Facebook saying, "We're going to be in this woodland, we've got permission for the woodlands to do it as this point. If anybody wants to come and join us, then come along". And, we were late turning up, because my mum, bless her, had come over for the legal bit, and she was supposed to be coming the next day, but she felt poorly. So, we were running late and she decided to stay home in the end.
By the time we got there, we got to the woods and all three car parks were full and we were like, "What's going on; have they got an event here? The day we're -- this is no blooming good. How are we going to do this if they've got loads of people?" and they'd all turned up for us.
Asha Clearwater: It was marvellous.
Taz Thornton: Wow!
Asha Clearwater: And we had, "Taz and Asha" on the front of the car.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, magnets.
Asha Clearwater: With a bright green -- you know those really green Fiestas; bright green.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, we'd got those at the time.
Wendy Harris: Was it with the dice?
Asha Clearwater: You've got that in your Mini, haven't you?
Taz Thornton: I have got furry dice in my Mini. Got to do it; it's got to be done. Yeah, and a Tazmanian Devil sitting on the dashboard to scare everybody.
Asha Clearwater: And she's now got Xena as well, haven't you?
Taz Thornton: Yeah.
Asha Clearwater: So, it was an amazing day.
Taz Thornton: Amazing two days.
Asha Clearwater: Two days, yeah.
Taz Thornton: But, just that turning up and thinking the car parks were full and getting really irritated about it, and then realising they were all for us; it was like, wow!
Asha Clearwater: And we wrote our own vows, and --
Wendy Harris: And really, you are those revolutionaries that I had in my mind's eye, because if it was so close to, like you being the first one, you've kind of forced their hand to get that paperwork ready for you, because they had a legal obligation to fulfil that for you.
Taz Thornton: I hadn't thought about it like that; that's a nice way of looking at it, isn't it? Thank you, Wendy, yeah, I hadn't thought about that.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, so you've paved the way for those that came behind you, because how long would they have, not stalled as such, but they would have just dragged their heels over it.
Taz Thornton: Well, legally they've got to do it, but yeah, absolutely, totally.
Asha Clearwater: I like that; that's a lovely way of looking at it.
Taz Thornton: We were right out in the sticks in the Lincolnshire Fenlands and it's been okay, we've not really had any issues here. In Peterborough, we've had a little few issues --
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, we've had a few issues in Peterborough over the years.
Taz Thornton: -- interestingly enough, but here it's been all right.
Asha Clearwater: It was amazing. So, that was a big pivotal moment, wasn't it, for both of us. But, you mentioned that.
Taz Thornton: We've both been through individual ones before though, hadn't we? So, yours was when you couldn't walk?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, my MS diagnosis 12, 13 years ago now and I got really poorly. I had a mum with MS, so I grew up with that, so I knew what it was like being a child with a parent with MS and so my mum's --
Taz Thornton: Your diagnosis, if we go back, came two weeks after my dad died and then the week after, you were made redundant.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, so it all came together, you know how it always does in life, doesn't it?
Wendy Harris: Like buses.
Asha Clearwater: It hits, then it hits again. Yeah, and it was like that and it was really difficult, and just thinking about mum. But, mum was just such an inspiration. It's funny because, when she was here, we always sort of say that, don't we, or very often, that I wasn't that close; I was closer to my dad.
But, now I can see and really acknowledge how strong my mum was going through all of that. She had it at the age of 38, diagnosed at 38. I was diagnosed at 38; freaky, or what?
Wendy Harris: But, she protected you an awful lot; she shielded you, then? So, it's only in your hindsight that you can see just where that strength came from?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, definitely. She was amazing though, and always saw the funny side in it, was always laughing, you know, falling over, people thinking she was drunk. She could absolutely hold her drinks all right. She used to drink my dad under the table. She could do the old, what's the old pool table game, you know, the snooker table where you have all the different coloured drinks; she would do that.
Taz Thornton: I remember, at your nephew's wedding, because by then she was quite bent over and she couldn't get her head back properly.
Asha Clearwater: She was in her 80s then.
Taz Thornton: We turned round and she'd literally got the entire champagne flute in her mouth trying to get the rest! "What are you doing?!"
Asha Clearwater: And she liked her Sherry, bless her, so she was amazing; and, a great conversationalist. That's one of the things that really gets on my nerves sometimes when people, if there's somebody with a disability, say they're in a chair, for instance, and they talk to the person that's wheeling them in the chair, not the person. It's that; it's acknowledgement, you know.
Wendy Harris: What I would say, Asha, is I didn't know about your diagnosis?
Asha Clearwater: Oh, okay, cool.
Wendy Harris: And, it doesn't have to be what defines you either.
Asha Clearwater: And, that's what my mum always said, and I never got it until later on again, because things like, she was a member of the MS Society. They do amazing work and I want to realty make that clear; they really do, and I've raised money for them myself. But, what mum would do, or dad would say, "Do you want to go to the MS do tonight?" and she would say, "Why do I want to go there, sitting around with a load of people in wheelchairs?"
It sounds awful, but sometimes you can get sucked into that. And I did that for a while, when it becomes the only thing you talk about. So, I do talk about it, and I've talked about the MS a little bit, but I've not talked about it a lot, and that's because it's only a tiny part of who I am.
Taz Thornton: A pivotal moment, isn't it, was that you got the diagnosis, but then a few years later, you had that relapse and you lost the use of your legs again, and that was ultimately why you went vegan --
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, yeah.
Taz Thornton: -- because you started working with a guy who said, "Try this diet", and literally, within two weeks of changing her diet, she was walking again.
Wendy Harris: It's amazing, isn't it, the little things, which isn't such a little thing when you think about it, as your diet, that can have such an impact on your whole system?
Taz Thornton: It's the things that make you think. And obviously, it was on the back of that that you changed your whole business --
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, I did.
Taz Thornton: -- and went from doing PR and marketing for people, to only doing that kind of occasionally for causes you really cared about, to being a content coach.
Asha Clearwater: And hence why, the only time I'm doing that now is things like National Pet Month, which is a pet charity, so that's close to my heart, because you know I'm pet-mad; so, that fits beautifully. But now, I coach people to create their own content, because I feel, you know, I know it's such a cliché, but it's true; everybody has a great story to share.
Wendy Harris: So, it's not just one story, actually, there are loads of stories that people have got and when you come to think of it, because of the situation, we've kind of been forced more online with our communication than face to face. So, what better way to be able to convey those stories?
I kept saying to people about my book because now, Taz, when I go to your book on my shelf, a little bit of, "What would Taz say?" you're in my head! I hear Taz in my head, and I've had somebody message me over the weekend going, "Wendy, you're in my head!"
Taz Thornton: Well, it's really getting through to people when you're hearing that; that's fabulous. I love that.
Asha Clearwater: You've got a mug, haven't you; you do things in your shop as well, don't you?
Taz Thornton: Oh, my merch range?
Asha Clearwater: The merch range, and she's got a mug and sometimes I'll pick that up and it says --
Taz Thornton: If it can be a pink silhouette of just my hair and my glasses, and then it says WWTD underneath, "What would Taz do?"
Asha Clearwater: I think it's great, but it's lovely; that's a real compliment, isn't it, when you hear that back? I think that's really lovely.
Taz Thornton: One of the posts I put on my Facebook page, on my business page last week, somebody had posted underneath, "Did anybody else read this in Taz's voice?" so it does happen!
If I was going to go for a pivotal moment, there are so many, but the one I always talk about is the one where I broke my back in three places. There were others after that, and it didn't immediately create this change, but that was the beginning of me starting to turn my life around and change things.
Trying to check out of life, and ending up instead not only killing my car but breaking my back, was a real wail, and it sounds such a cliché, but I ended up on a hospital flatbed for nine hours with my head packed in sandbags and nobody telling me what was going on. And, at that point, when they first said "spinal damage", it sounds so clichéd and cheesy, but I literally went from hopeless to hopeful.
I started calling out to whoever I'd been speaking to, whatever your beliefs are, I used to just ask them to just give me terminal illness. I've done a lot of work to undo that energetically since. But, I went, in that moment, from instead of, "Let me die", to, "Just let me walk. Just let me walk and I promise I'll use what I've been through to help other people. I'll do it; I'll do it".
So, I didn't do it straightaway; I went back into my career and back into goalsetting and hiding behind masks for a few years, but that was the start of changing things for me.
Wendy Harris: It's that undercurrent that follows you though then, isn't it?
Taz Thornton: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Because, as much as anything, when something so traumatic happens, it's that need of getting back to some form of normality. So, you went back to what was your security blanket as such?
Taz Thornton: Absolutely. But, I think we forget, don't we, that once we've dropped the stone into the pond, we can't stop the ripples.
Wendy Harris: No, not at all.
Taz Thornton: And actually, what came next that really created the change was that same series of happenings we just touched on, when my uncle died, my dad died, a load of family debt came to light that I hadn't been aware of, so my financial future as I thought it was literally disappeared overnight. Then you got your MS diagnosis, then you got made redundant.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, it was interesting, wasn't it? Interesting times.
Taz Thornton: That all happened in eight weeks. And, in the middle of that was all this stress over, do I come out now, because my parents had known for years, but we were being asked to keep things quiet and pretend we had boyfriends and stuff for a long time.
Asha Clearwater: That was really quite difficult, wasn't it?
Taz Thornton: And the family half joke had been, "We don't care who knows once your dad's died", and then dad died and it was like, "Well, I really need my partner with me now". So, it was, do we stop hiding now; what do we do? So, everything unravelled in the best way, or began to. And again, hindsight's a wonderful thing.
I think, when you're going through a breakdown, a lot of the time, I don't think we realise. To use a really crass saying one of my old workmates used to use was, you'd work like a rat in the sewers, just going through the motions. I think I was like that and in hindsight, I can look back and say in my corporate life, I worked through a breakdown in four years without anyone really knowing what was going on. But, I didn't realise that I was going through a breakdown until after I was through the other side of it. The best way out is through.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, that's so true, isn't it?
Wendy Harris: I think that's why depression is so dangerous.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, it's only afterwards, isn't it, once you come through the other side, that you can see where you were. And, it's the same for me when menopause hit, or perimenopause hit.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, because you had your unravelling, didn't you?
Asha Clearwater: I had my unravelling, and that was all kind of around that time, and family not accepting us and all of that stuff going on, and my mum dying. I hadn't dealt with that at all. And as you know, it piles up and up; you get layers. And, when you're in it, you can't see it. It's only afterwards, now thinking --
Wendy Harris: A similar experience for me about four or five years ago, my sister was diagnosed as being psychotic and she was threatening to come and take my daughter who, at the time, would have been about seven, and she was going to go and collect her from school. So of course, I had to get the school involved so that they didn't let her go with her auntie, and it became really difficult.
I kind of went into an autopilot of, I was going through the motions of everything that I was doing at work. As far as the family was concerned, the shopping was bought, the dinners were cooked, the washing and ironing was done and everywhere was clean and tidy, Wendy was going to work. But, what I was actually doing was sitting with my laptop, not speaking to anybody, communicating only by email and watching boxsets. I was shutting down and it was to the point where I thought my results were being affected, everything.
So, the only thing to do was to go to the doctor and say, "I don't want tablets; I need to talk to somebody. And that first CBT session, they said, "We know what the problem is; you know what the problem is; it's not that, it's this; cut it out of your life until you are ready to deal with it again". It was a massive change, just instantly, and it was like a pivotal moment.
Taz Thornton: Absolutely. And I think that's one of the other really important things to recognise with mental health. Obviously, through my work now, I work with a lot of people going through all kinds of different stages of that umbrella term of "mental health". I wish we could change that because that covers --
Wendy Harris: Mental wealth; it should be mental wealth.
Taz Thornton: Or mental wellness, because I think mental health covers such a massive spectrum that people who would see themselves as being at the lighter end, with depression, stress, anxiety, won't want to identify that, because it covers the extreme end as well. There's still so much stigma attached to that, but it's so important for everybody to recognise as well that one size doesn't fit all.
So, sometimes it can be that we need to take more exercise and we need to drink more water; sometimes it can be that we need CBT, we need a coach, we need a counsellor; sometimes we do need anti-depressants. I mean, you went and got the tablets, but never took them.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah. For me, all it needed for me was to actually say, "Help; I need help", but go through the motions of going to the doctors and going into floods of tears and just releasing it. And, those tablets probably are still in the drawer today. I haven't taken them; that's my choice.
Wendy Harris: I've got a packet just the same in my cupboard! One day, I might just go, "I've got them, I'm going to take them"!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, exactly that. It's actually going through -- that, for me, was a healing. That, in itself, was actually deciding that I was going to go ahead and do it and saying I need help was the biggest thing for me.
Taz Thornton: Whereas for me, I did take the tablets route. I was on and off anti-depressants for years. But, I remember that last time, when I was going through the breakdown, as I can now call it, arguing with the doctor that, "Okay, well I'll do this, I'll be on them for six months and then we'll review". And, I think they're so used to just saying, "Just give them to these people as a crutch" whereas for me, it was about getting myself up to a stable enough platform so that I was strong enough to do the work with whatever was going on underneath the pain, underneath the disease.
So, it matters not whether it's tablets, whether it's CBT, whether it's coaching, whether it's counselling, whether it's exercise, water, whatever it is, but just get yourself to a place where you're strong enough to look at what's really going on under the surface.
Wendy Harris: Those experts, like doctors, are there to serve us, but they have their own boundaries that they have to meet, which means that they don't necessarily serve us in the best way that they can, because we don't know the questions to ask in the first place.
Taz Thornton: Exactly. And, sometimes it can depend so much over where you are in the world and what your doctor's like as well. We've got great doctors near us; we can get in first, same day if we need to, outside of lockdown, but they're all still, well one of them, it's also a very rural area where I think they're just used to people coming in and saying, "I've got this problem; what do I take for it?" And when you try and say, "Well, hold on, what have we got outside of medicine?"
Asha Clearwater: When I was diagnosed with MS, my GP printed off something from the internet --
Taz Thornton: In front of you!
Asha Clearwater: -- about my diagnosis in front of me, and that was his idea of support, which I thought for me maybe wasn't --
Taz Thornton: And, they're specialists as well; your first specialist appointment! When you have your next relapse, when you are in a wheelchair, when you can't walk, when you're permanently disabled --
Asha Clearwater: Sod that! Sorry, am I allowed to swear? Sod that; that's not happening, you know?
Taz Thornton: Why can't they say, "Well, this is what could happen; this is the spectrum". What do you need to do to help you stay out of that for as long as possible?
Asha Clearwater: It was. I wrote quite a lengthy -- you can find it on Medium actually; I wrote quite a lengthy article about it, didn't I, because I found out about my MS diagnosis in a letter. It wasn't a phone call, it was a letter, which was a bit of a shock, and I remember ringing you up at work to tell you. But, that whole experience taught me a lot about how to broach a subject with somebody like that, that is so potentially life-changing and how it can be done.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, you see it's interesting, isn't it, where communication sometimes is disjointed. I was having this conversation with another guest where he said that his consultant rang him and said, "There's evidence of prostate cancer" and he said, "What do you mean by evidence?" and he went, "You've got it". If you're the specialist and you're delivering this kind of communication, you've got to have found a better way of saying it than that!
Taz Thornton: There's never a good way of delivering bad news, is there? When it's a medical professional though, you might expect they've had some level of training, or some understanding on bedside manner?
Asha Clearwater: I mean, what, for me, made that bearable, because that whole experience of going to Lincoln Hospital for the first time, sitting in a waiting room full of people with something similar to me; when we arrived, it was obviously quite difficult. It was a really busy waiting room, because I remember it, and we went into the consultant, and he didn't even make eye contact at all.
Then, I did a really silly thing. I've got to tell you this, Wendy, because this will make you laugh. Taz, you must tell this story, because you know sometimes humour, if you believe in a spirit God, whatever, but I think it's the universe's way of lightening the subject and helping you through it; something very funny, I thought funny, we thought funny happened. So, go on, Taz.
Taz Thornton: Well, for anyone who's friends with us on Facebook, mild swear word coming in, you can't really bleep this one out without losing the context, but there's a hashtag, "Sht my wife says and sht my wife does", that we put out to friends on Facebook, and this was one of those moments.
The consultant touched his finger to his nose and said, "I want you to do this", so he was obviously checking for her coordination. So, she reached out and put her finger on his nose! And she saw nothing wrong with it!
Asha Clearwater: You went into hysterics.
Taz Thornton: Which was almost as good as the time you had your eyes tested and I took you to that appointment too, because it was when your legs weren't that good. And, she was sitting at the machine and the optician said, "I just want you to look at the green light", and she said, "I can see it; I can see it!" and the optician said, "The machine isn't on yet". She went, "I can see the green light" and she paused for a moment and went, "Mrs Clearwater, that's my eye"!
Asha Clearwater: So, I've obviously inherited that, because my mum was very much like that; always doing silly things. But, we laughed hysterically in the room with him, didn't we, and I said to Taz, I would have loved to know -- he buried himself in his notes, I will always remember that, writing; I'd love to know what he'd written.
We were in hysterics, crying with laughter, but it lightened the whole experience, didn't it? And then, we came out of that room laughing and smiling and of course, that spreads, doesn't it? We sat in that waiting room and we saw these people and people were making eye contact, and it was a different place.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, but when we first went into that waiting room to wait to go in, I could absolutely understand what your mum said about, "Why would I want to go and sit around with a group of people in wheelchairs, because the energy in that room; it was so oppressive, depressive. It was like nobody had any life left.
It was like going into Gregg's, the bakers, just before payday, when everybody's broke and surviving on sausage rolls. We've all been into one of those cheaper cafés and felt that vibe, you know, and it's like that.
Asha Clearwater: It was that, but when we started laughing as we came out of the waiting room, which is what I say in my Medium article, it spread, didn't it?
Taz Thornton: Yeah.
Asha Clearwater: Suddenly people looked up and we smiled and we made eye contact, and we had that connection with other people, without sounding like an old hippie; I am an old hippie at heart.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, but that's the right sort of infectious, isn't it?
Asha Clearwater: Yes.
Taz Thornton: It's like, why aren't they doing that in places where the mood is going to be low, possibly not in places like funeral homes, no; but, in hospitals and things where people are ill or poorly, or have chronic conditions; why aren't we doing something to lighten the mood instead of sending people out with this badge of honour and all these labels, "I have all these things wrong with me and it's become my identity"?
We're not doing anything to lift people out of that identifying as the disease. And, I just wish that we could do something to change that, because how awful, my opinion of course, but to go through life connecting so solidly with a label a medical professional has given you, that you lose sense of everything else. That level of low energy, low vibe, depression, disease, when there are things we could do fairly easily to just lift that up a little bit.
Wendy Harris: Do you remember me writing about Valerie?
Taz Thornton: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: She was staying with us this weekend, and she's got PSP, which is a very rare form of Parkinson's, and she freezes. But, we have her laughing about it, because she comes sometimes, she is so down in the dumps. She fell over in the bathroom and I heard her bounce.
So, when my husband, Rob, went and picked her up and said, "What have you done; what did you do that for? I've told you to wait for me" was kind of the wrong way about it. Whereas, I came in and went, "Are you okay; are you hurt anywhere?" "Oh, my bum hurts a little bit". "I'm not surprised, because I heard you bounce". Then, she laughed, she was shaking, she was crying, but the laughter broke that energy.
Asha Clearwater: And that, Wendy, that sums up my childhood; that's what my mum was like. So, she'd frequently have falls like that, and it was in the days before we had all the things to help us in the way that we do. Actually, we had a lift in our house. I was very proud as a kid, because we had a lift going up from the --
Wendy Harris: You're like, DIY is the best!
Asha Clearwater: Oh, it was fantastic. I used to get everyone, you know, the postman had to have a ride in the lift, and the gasman; all these people coming in. The Avon lady would be in the lift. But, what mum taught me there was, she would laugh at it. She'd come out of the loo and you'd find her; she'd be in her sling. Sounds a bit dodgy; not like that. And, you'd come home, I'd come home from school, and mum would be upside down nearly with her head down the loo, but she'd be in hysterics about it. And, that laughter is what got us through, what got her through.
She'd be covered in bruises sometimes, because she had a lot of falls. Because MS, you know, that's how it approaches. She went from walking to going into a chair, but she would always laugh about it. Laughter's the best medicine.
Taz Thornton: And it has such an impact, even on your physicality, I think, when you have a chronic condition. So, you will have seen me talking with Emma Sheardown, who is one of my clients online. She's a quadriplegic, cerebral palsy, but she's been World and European champion in the sport of Para Dressage, that medics said would never walk or talk; now her Para Dressage career has come to an end, is now a motivational speaker.
In the time that we've been working together and, goodness me, if anybody heard some of our conversations sometimes, we're so un-PC, you know, when we've been trying to get her to high-five and stuff, and talking about whether she could catch a fly with chopsticks; really un-PC stuff that people would frown upon. And yet again, it breaks the energy and she can laugh at herself.
Emma would tell you herself, I'm sure, that when we've been working together a few months, she'd get to the point where she'd walk into where we were having our coaching session and I'd go, "What's up?" "How do you know?" "Well, because you're walking's not as good today, and I know that if your mood is down, it impacts on your walking and it impacts on your speaking".
So, we've done so much work just to get her to the point where she's really chilled out before she goes to do a speaking gig, which of course is a real opposite because, of course, people very often get wound up and stressed before they go and speak in front of people. With Emma, we've had to create the opposite because, if she's stressed, she won't be able to communicate as well, and she won't be able to walk up to the stage as well.
Working with Emma has really, really shown me how much our mental, emotional mood, state, can really impact our physicality; in the same way that I know, when I was in corporate land and when I was depressed, the kind of run-of-the-mill colds and things would have bowled me over and I would have been off work. Whereas now, because I'm happier, I go, "Oh, it's just a cold", and carry on.
So that, for me, is such a measure of where we are with our with our mental wellness as well that, if we have a bit of a sniffle and we find that it stops us and it bowls us over; I'm not talking about people with chronic conditions, I'm talking about people who are ostensibly healthy. If we're finding that the little knocks are stopping us, that's really time to go, "Okay, what's going on with my mental and emotional health right now?"
Wendy Harris: Yeah. Our bodies do tell us, don't they?
Asha Clearwater: Without a doubt, they do.
Taz Thornton: But even that, our mindset, if we are in a good place, will keep us going.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, our bodies are our biggest defence.
Taz Thornton: Our symptoms can seem so much worse if we're not in a good place mentally and emotionally, and I find that fascinating.
Asha Clearwater: It's the key, isn't it, to everything really; it's the key to everything, isn't it, having that PMO?
Taz Thornton: Your psychology really is your physiology; it's amazing.
Wendy Harris: Quite a few pivotal moments there and some insights into our own experiences and how that's affected us, and in terms of defining why we do what we do now. It is about serving as many people as we can, sharing that story and empowering people to be the best that they can ever be.
Taz Thornton: Definitely, 100%.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, it's what makes the world go round.
Wendy Harris: Ladies, thank you so much for giving up your time to share those stories with us. If anybody wants to pick up the conversation with you, where will they find you? Is there a page for both of you, or do they have to find you separately?
Taz Thornton: No, you have to find us separately. You can find me, search Taz Thornton on pretty much any social channel and you'll find me. You'll find me on Snapchat, but don't try and contact me there because I'm just there, but I never actually show up on that one.
Wendy Harris: I'm addicted to TikTok.
Asha Clearwater: Oh, TikTok; I keep trying to do TikTok. I keep listening to Gary saying, you've got to do TikTok, but I don't get it!
Wendy Harris: Hang on, we're going to have loads of people approaching us now, "Do you want some training on TikTok and SnapChap?"
Taz Thornton: No, I don't want training on TikTok; I'm in too many places as it is, so predominantly for me, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Insta, YouTube and www.tazthornton.com. And, Asha?
Asha Clearwater: Well, mine's much smaller, because really the ones that I work on predominantly is LinkedIn for me. You'll find me on there, you'll find me on Medium on there, because I write on there as well.
Taz Thornton: Oh yeah, Medium as well.
Asha Clearwater: You will find me on Insta; I need to do more on Insta really.
Taz Thornton: Yes, you do; yes, you very, very do.
Asha Clearwater: As soon as I said that, I just get that look and I know that look very well. Yeah, but come and find me on LinkedIn, is probably the best one, I think. And also, Medium; and go and read that story about my MS diagnosis.
Taz Thornton: You need to get on Twitter more, too.
Asha Clearwater: Pardon?
Taz Thornton: You need to get on Twitter more, too.
Asha Clearwater: I do need to get on Twitter, yes, because it's the place where all the journalists hang out.
Taz Thornton: It is.
Wendy Harris: I think you'll be found! Thank you so much. Don't forget, listeners, to subscribe at www.makingconservationscount.studio/podcast. You'll get notifications for every episode so you won't miss a guest or guests. Thank you for being my first duo, ladies; it's been an absolute pleasure.
Taz Thornton: Thank you so much for inviting us, loads of love.
Asha Clearwater: Thanks, Wendy, bye.
Peter Howard runs a design studio that is ranked in the top 100 in the country and was responsible for the WAG brand.
Having known Peter and his team for many years, Wendy has heard lots of his stories but knew there would be one she had not heard before.
Digging for the gold in the seam through conversation or branding can have a really positive impact on the first impressions you make in business. We make all decisions through an emotional process.
Being a clever chap, Peter shares a story about an invention, with a global patent, that you will just never believe...
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website www.wagassociates.com
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 18
February 18th 2021
Wendy Harris & Peter Howard, PHD Design
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:45: Cutting through the noise
00:03:28: Digging for client gold
00:05:07: Every decision is an emotional one.
00:06:27: People like to chat
00:10:40: PHd is invisible
00:12:21: Never going to float; way too brave
00:13:30: Pete's pivotal moment
00:18:09: Left or right?
00:19:34: £100K in six years?
00:23:26: The power of conversation
00:26:05: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome back to the Making Conversations Count Podcast. I am your host; I am Wendy Harris and today I am joined in the studio by Peter Howard from PHd Design. We've known each other for a very long and time I must just explain very quickly that you might hear a dog wagging their tail because my Maud knows you very well and has recognised your voice; and does normally sit down very calm and quietly but I think she's missing her Peter love.
Peter Howard: Bless her cotton socks. I can put up with a little bit of tail wag whooshing.
Wendy Harris: That's great, thank you. Peter, please introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Peter Howard: My name's Peter Howard and for my sins I am Head of Blame at PHd Design. Thankfully that role is not that busy because we don't very often get things wrong. So, PHd Design we've been going since 1992, good Lord, and we an award-winning graphic design branding and design company. We've got two international awards, a couple of regional awards, we've been a member of the Chamber of Commerce since we started, and we're also now independently ranked in the top 100 design companies in the UK.
Wendy Harris: That's a fantastic accolade to have, isn't it? Am I right in thinking that we brag about that as being the only design agency in Staffordshire that has ever got that accolade with Design Week?
Peter Howard: Spot on, the only one in Staffordshire. There's only three in the Midlands, the other two are in Birmingham and they're all infinitely bigger than we are, and they do a lot of other things apart from what we do. But we're a specialist and we're very proud of that, because it is independent as well which is wonderful.
Wendy Harris: I've known for what 10, 11 years, I think?
Peter Howard: Yeah, something like that. I have got older, I've got more bags under my eyes, a few more crow's feet but hopefully the passion hasn't changed and the ability to cut through the normal, shall we say noise?
Wendy Harris: I think you are right there, Pete, because it's a very family feel in the studio. There's that sort of relaxed approach because you know what you're doing. When I hear you talking to clients you know what you're talking about so it's about getting them to relax as well; to tell you what they need for you to be able to show them what you can do.
Peter Howard: It's absolutely true. Strangely enough, because of all this Covid times and we're all working remotely and then we came back to the studio and now it's all working remotely again, blah, blah, we've adapted, and I think the phrase is "pivoted" so that we can all work from home remotely and access all the bits and bobs at work.
Wendy Harris: I like "pirouette" better.
Peter Howard: Sounds much more pleasant that does, definitely. You wouldn't want to be seeing me do a pirouette though trust me.
Wendy Harris: No, you don't want to see my knees.
Peter Howard: Yeah, my wife said to me the other day, she happened to be at the office here at home. She said, "You actually came across really well there", and that was quite a nice thing for me to hear. She doesn't normally witness what I do for a living. So, she happened to be in whilst I was talking to a client about a presentation of what they needed. She said, "You came across really well because you got your personality across and the passion and the real desire to dig to the heart of what their challenge was and then solve it for them".
Ultimately that is what every client wants. They want somebody to bother to understand it, and then offer a solution that recognises what the challenge is that they can see it and go, "Oh yeah, I get what that is now".
Wendy Harris: For me it's like digging for gold, isn't it, and finding the seam. So, a lot of clients will know themselves what that gold looks like and feels like, but then explaining that gold and how it can work for them can be really challenging either through conversation, through communication, through a lot of the things that you produce in the studio. I'm really chuffed I get loads and loads of comments about my branding and that's thanks to you guys. It's made such a massive difference because people recognise who I am straight away, just from an image.
Peter Howard: It's amazing how much of a difference that can make. It's wonderful for you to say that thank you very much, it means a lot, but it is absolutely bang on. The funny thing is, is that we can't help, as human beings, we can't help make a first impression. If you walk into a room, if you walk past a bookstand at an airport, if you're out on the pull, and this is a strange analogy, but we always make a decision with our eyes first.
If you're at a restaurant and the food comes out, if things look good, if things look right, if things look appropriate to what you're expecting them to be, then the message goes from the eyes to the brain, the ears, the nose, the taste and this, that and the other, to tell them, "Listen, guys, we're the first barrier of defence, all looking good". So, everybody else is a little bit more relaxes in the senses.
So, if the visual is right at the start, chances are people will look a bit further and try it or test or talk to it or touch it or whatever it is to make sure that it lives up to its first impression.
Wendy Harris: I was so busy listening to you then I was thinking, "Do you know, it is that every decision that we make is an emotional one".
Peter Howard: God, yeah and you justify it afterwards.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, we talk ourselves in or out of it afterwards as to whether it was the right decision or not, but it is that emotive process, isn't it?
Peter Howard: Here's something that happened to me a few years ago, this is just to bear that out. I was looking to buy a different car. The old car I got was broken and it was time to put it to bed, so to speak. I went looking for a car, and I thought, "I'll get a lease deal and this, that and the other", and I found an Audi A4. I'm going to back to -- the year was 2003. Found an Audi A4, and I wanted it and it was my first ever brand-new car and I just wanted it.
I remember justifying it, finding lots of evidence about the miles per gallon and about the insurance premiums and what I was already paying on XYZ, just so that I could justify it to our accounts chap at work then. I thought, "What am I doing this for?", because ultimately, I've bought it because I like the look of it and that's what I wanted.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, I can have it because I can, I don't need anybody to tell me I can.
Peter Howard: Mad isn't it? But I do remember justifying it, so yeah, it was an emotional purchase, but then backed up by trying to justify it pointlessly anyway.
Wendy Harris: It doesn't matter what we say, conversation is key to just about everything that we do really, isn't it? Life, work, personal, goals.
Peter Howard: I really agree with that. This manifests itself into our world or PHd's world day in, day out. Because we work so closely with our clients, you end up having them as friends, they end up becoming part and parcel of your life. You can have a conversation with somebody and if they feel comfortable with you then they just start talking about all sorts of things, all sorts of things to do with their own life. Having that ability to hold a conversation with anybody, whether it be shopfloor to boardroom, doesn't make any difference people are just people.
People like to chat. People like to have a chat with somebody who can demonstrate that they are (a) listening and (b) give a damn about what's being said to them, because so many times you'll hear or you'll see maybe, you'll come across, let's say a salesperson, and that salesperson is focused, "Get the deal, get the job". You're having a chat with them and they're not listening. You can almost see the words you're saying going in one ear and falling out the other one and you're thinking, "I'm not going to give you the business".
Wendy Harris: It's that's scenario isn't it of, "You went on holiday, that's nice, can you sign here?" "The weather was -- yeah, it's just there and you need to date it too". "Yeah, so there was plenty of ice cream?". "Yeah, okay and if you turn over that's the small print", because they just want to be out of there, don't they?
Peter Howard: Our clients, they just keep coming back which is absolutely flipping wonderful. We don't hold anybody on a retainer, I don't think we've ever done a retainer with anybody, but the simple principle is if you do a good job and you're being straight and honest and upfront about everything with somebody and you do it right, then they come back because they see the results of your labour. You were alluding to it earlier that the work that we've done for you is getting WAG more noticed because you've now got a distinctive style.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Peter Howard: If we can give that to people to make them more recognisable, more seen, more noticed, more heard, etc, by the power of design, then they've got to be ahead of their competitors. If you can do that and be a nice person and have a chat and a laugh along the way …
Wendy Harris: Yeah, I agree Pete, because I have visibility now because people recognise it. There's a certain credibility as well because I would say it shows that I actually care about the first impression I want to make, when I show up. It is polished, it's no longer the eye stock vintage phone, cobbled together on some free app with my logo that's 16 years old. It just shows that I care.
Peter Howard: Absolutely, and if you care then they will subliminally care because people notice that. They subliminally notice stuff when somebody's put some effort and care and attention into it. You can't help it; we all notice when things look ropey. You don't necessarily notice when things look good, but you notice when they look bad. Not many people will tell you it looks bad, but if people are noticing that you look bad then you'll see it in the drop off the figures, people will do that.
Whereas if you look good, it's almost expected to be that way, so what we try and do is make sure that all of our clients look consistent. Oddly probably the biggest and best word in what we do is that, it's consistency, because if you do it consistently then you get a brand awareness; you get a look and a feel and a style. The trick there is to make sure it's done well, so if you do it consistent and well, that's a winner for everybody.
Wendy Harris: Your design, one of the observations I would say having known you for such a long time and seeing a lot of the projects that you've worked with and --
Peter Howard: Is this going to be good or bad?
Wendy Harris: No, yeah, it's good. You're a small team and it's very much a family feel, and I think even the listeners will agree with me, when you go to a designer and an agency there's generally a very strong undercurrent of how they design, that you can tell who it is. You can go, "Oh and that's them over there, they've done that".
Peter Howard: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: What I think the beauty of what you create in your studio is what the client wants to the point that we can't always tell that it's you that's done it. PHd is invisible because it's so the client's brand.
Peter Howard: It's not everybody that notices that, but that's oddly what we try and set out to achieve. We don't necessarily want people to recognise that it's us; we want people to recognise it's the customer. That may be born out of the fact that we've got such a diverse client base that it's wonderful. We might be dealing with a range of beers one day or one week; and then we're doing a shirt the next week; then we might be doing a solicitor's literature the next week. There is a novel thing, trying to make solicitor speak into the language that the customers (a) understand, and (b) give a monkey's about; that's quite a challenge.
Professional services, and then we might have an automotive company and all of those are incredibly different target audiences, so you have to design it in a different way for each different project. But because have such a wide scope it really makes it a lot easier, ironically, because we can draw on experiences, let's say, from the automotive world and put it into the drinks industry. We can draw on stuff we've done for the FMCG market and put it into professional services, and it does help having such a wide pool of very different customers. One thing that holds them all together though is that they do care how they look; that's the probably the thing that holds them together.
Wendy Harris: Yes, and that whatever it is that you do for them speaks on their behalf. It's not that they're suddenly trying to communicate in a different fashion either.
Peter Howard: Well it's got to be appropriate to them.
Wendy Harris: Yes, you can take the jargon out can't you, but it's still got to be that it sounds like them.
Peter Howard: And appropriate to the market. There's no point making a solicitor look like a cool hip and trendy TV producing company, because it wouldn’t work and equally vice versa.
Wendy Harris: Although I have got that going round in my head now and that's quite funny.
Peter Howard: Likewise, you wouldn't expect a barrister let's say to come dressed with beads, dreadlocks and flip flops. There's an image that you need to culture. So, there's a window; is that the right word, or parameters that you can work within.
Wendy Harris: Boundaries, I know one of my listeners will love that.
Peter Howard: You try and push them because that's in nature what we try and do, but you do need to recognise that there are certain things that you think, "Nah, that's just going to float, that isn't. That is just way too brave".
Wendy Harris: A bit too out there.
Peter Howard: It's knowing where they are.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, absolutely. Pete, I could talk to you all day about what you do and it's just purely because I have an invested interest in it as well, having known you for so long, but everybody on the show you can't get out of it; I ask everybody to bring a pivotal moment at that conversation that really created a turning point.
Peter Howard: Do you want me just to spurt it out and talk it through?
Wendy Harris: Yeah, tell us what's happened to create a pivotal moment for you?
Peter Howard: Let me take you back to late 1990. There may be some people out there thinking, "I wasn't even born then", you never know, but late 1990 I was a partner in a reasonably successful design company in Birmingham. We'd got, I think, five staff designers and life was pretty good. I thought I was king of Great Barr to be honest at the time, that's where I'm from. I had a Peugeot 205 GTi with a phone in it.
Wendy Harris: That's what I learned to drive in.
Peter Howard: Fantastic cars.
Wendy Harris: Yeah.
Peter Howard: So, I was king of the hill and I thought I was superb and everything in the garden was rosy. Me and my business partner, we invented a product, and that product has gone on to sell easily in excess of a billion units throughout the world, but however there's always a "but", we're dogged with a bit of bad luck and it culminated in a weekend down in London with the MD and owner of Chrysalis Music.
We'd got over a lot of hurdles, we'd borrowed a bit of money and ultimately, we were going to sell the rights to this product to Chrysalis Music for a global rollout. It's a flip case, like a Filofax for CDs, so anybody who's listening, if you've got one of those like a little zip case with the sleeves you can put CDs in, it emanated from me.
Wendy Harris: I've got one in the car.
Peter Howard: Yeah, I've got the patent certificate at work, because we got the global patent on it. However, come Christmas and this was December 1991, so I've come forward a year, my then business partner, who shall remain nameless, he announced to me that he was going to be going to, I think it was Gambia with his girlfriend for Christmas. So, I thought, "Great, fine no problem".
He said, "Do you want to borrow my car over Christmas and have a little play?" He'd got -- I think it was a reasonably new Lancia Delta HF Intergrale which is basically a Ferrari with a Lancia body on it. It's a nutcase car, left-hand drive, evil, evil thing. So, I thought, "That's brilliant, I'll have a little play with that", so off he went. That was mid-late December 1991.
By Christmas 1991 the world had imploded for me. The car was repossessed, his car was repossessed, my car was repossessed; the phone obviously went with it. My flat had to go because I couldn’t afford it. The business -- we had three businesses all of them imploded on themselves.
What I've learned out of that particular experience is that I trusted probably too much because I'd signed lots of things that I wasn't quite sure what I was signing, and it basically transpired that the whole of the three businesses were held up by prayer and faith and hope. So, it was incredibly in debt, there was a lot of bank debt, there was a lot of personal guarantees debt, and that's quite a crucial factor of this pivotal moment.
So, I hadn't realised a lot of this; so everything went, the bailiffs turned up, the business was gone. Not quite overnight, but pretty close. I rang my parents up, I moved back in with my parents. I went out with some old mates from school and got incredibly drunk for a couple of nights.
Wendy Harris: Ratted.
Peter Howard: Absolutely twisted and it was the world's and his dog's fault. None of it was my fault, I blamed everybody. I was angry.
Wendy Harris: Trying to just understand what had happened.
Peter Howard: Absolutely, yeah. Then after I think a couple of days after the Christmas period, I thought, "Okay, that's enough of that. You've licked your wounds, you've been angry, you've shouted a few people and you've got it out of your system. You've now got to recognise that you're in that horrible place, you've got a lot of debt".
There are PG debts, which I then discovered that when you've got a personal guarantee on something, whoever you owe the money to, can choose -- how many people have signed that document, they can choose whoever they want to come to for the money.
So, being as my then business partner had gone abroad, I didn't see him for years, I don't know where he went but he disappeared. Effectively, the banks, the only place that they could get any money from was me, because I had an address, and I had a postcode, and I wasn't hiding. Ultimately, I ended up sorting the banks out and paying them off.
Now, you might think, "Well, if you've got nothing how can you afford that?" The amount of monies involved here was knocking on the door of £100,000 in total.
Wendy Harris: In 1991 was a lot of money.
Peter Howard: This was January 1992, so January 1992 the whole pain came out. It is Christmas 1991/January 1992. So, £100,000; £60,000 of it was PGs, it was a mind focuser. So, the pivotal moment, we get to it through all this preamble, I had a decision to make in January 1992 and the decision was really simple and the only way I could do this was to think about it like a junction in a road. I'd got to a T-junction and I could either go left or right.
It was go and get a job; and if I went and got a job, which I didn't think was going to be a problem, because I felt that I was good enough to get a job, so if I was going to get a job, I'd be paying off that debt probably until now, because that was the equivalent to one-and-a-half, two houses. Yeah, it's lot of money. It was more than my first house which I bought six years afterwards. So that was one choice, turn right, go and get a job pay it off the rest of your life.
Turn left, try and learn how to run a business. Try and do it and then --
Wendy Harris: I don't mean to laugh, Pete, because I know you're still trying.
Peter Howard: I know, I know. One of these days I'll work it out how the hell you're supposed to do it. I don't know when that’s going to be but -- so I thought, "How difficult can it be?" I suppose because of blind ignorance and not having a fat lot of choice, I thought, "I'll do it". My brain said, "If you go left and try running a business, if it fails go and get a job", so there was always a get out clause.
Wendy Harris: Yes, you got a plan B, yeah.
Peter Howard: Yeah, I tried to learn how to write a proposal, learn how to write a quotation, learn how to do stuff. Doing the work wasn't a problem to be honest, because that's what our partnership was. He went and got it and I did it. So, doing it was no issue, it was the going and getting it and working out the business matters.
So, I went round, and I spoke to all the suppliers. I did a deal with every supplier that was owed money. I said, "Look, I know I don't have to pay you but because trust and honour and reputation are vitally important, I'm going to". So, we worked out a process where I'd do X amount of work for X amount of money that would knock off the debt; and ultimately when the debt's gone, with all these suppliers, they would still give me work and it would then turn into a better structure.
I did deals with the banks to pay it off, and without boring you with all the details, I started PHd late January 1992. Six years almost to the day after I started it, I can remember cracking open a bottle of champagne, with my then girlfriend who's now my wife, in our first house going, "That's it. It's done". The last bit of the debt was paid off and it was almost six years, so it took a long time and a lot of grief and a lot of graft, but reputation was completely intact, all debts paid and move onto the next chapter of PHd. So pivotal moment; Christmas 1991.
Wendy Harris: High ten to you, Pete. I don't know why I don't know that story. Perhaps it was because I needed to hear it today.
Peter Howard: Maybe, I don't broadcast it; basically most people don't want to go, "Yeah, whatever".
Wendy Harris: Thank you.
Peter Howard: I've got nothing to hide by it, but it's not the sort of thing I normally broadcast, there you go. I'm surprised you don't know actually because we have had quite a few chats, so there you go.
Wendy Harris: Yes, I know we've talked about lots of things on lots of different deep levels that sometimes has got absolutely nothing to do with work and more about the life and the universe and our navel, but it's incredible really when you consider £100,000 in six years and to live, because that's the other element, isn't it? You're not working that off and working for free and somebody else is covering your arse, let's be frank.
Peter Howard: Well, I have to say my parents were amazing because they said, "No problem, come back", and I moved into my old room back at home. So, I would be 26-ish at the time, and they said, "No problem". My mum said, "Don’t worry about paying us board so to speak or keep, do it when you can", which was brilliant. So, I did when I could, but they were incredibly supportive, absolutely brilliant. I couldn't have asked for better. That massively helped.
My first car I bought it off my dad. I bought my dad's old, and some of your listeners may not even know what the hell one of these things is, but an old Datsun Stanza. Datsun is the name that Nissan used to be called for anybody out there who doesn’t know. An old Datsun Stanza I bought off him for £300 and paid it off bit by bit, but it was a massive help. So, I didn't do it alone, I did it with parental help.
Wendy Harris: I think the other point that I just want to quickly touch on is that at that crossroads, when you could have gone left or right --
Peter Howard: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: -- "After everything that I've just been through, I really don't want any more hassle, I'm just going to get on with it, keep my head down, once bitten I'm not going to get bitten again".
Peter Howard: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Yet you decided to go with the, "I'm going to give this a try myself and you're nailing it and still nailing it".
Peter Howard: Well, it's 29 years now we've been going, so I think the phrase is, "We're probably over the worst".
Wendy Harris: Yeah, do you think?
Peter Howard: Yeah, we must be doing something right because people keep coming back and we've won certain statuses within the industry, so we are recognised as actually good at what we do. That is just born out by just being really open and honest.
Coming back to this whole conversation situation, it doesn't matter who you are, if you can articulate what you need to solve. If you're a client and you can articulate what you need to do, and if you're working with somebody who can understand that and articulate how they're going to help you solve it, all by the power of conversation, then it can happen.
Wendy Harris: What I would like to say just as a final observation is that I hear you sometimes on your mobile phone and I know that you're following up a quote or that you're in the middle of a job for somebody, and you go, "Oh hello, so and so, yeah and we're doing this, and did you do that, and did you do the other? Tell me what happened".
Then at the end you think, "Oh we've been on the phone quite a while I'd better go", and then you go, "Yes, that is why I rang you. Oh, you want me to do that, okay". So, you do ring -- you've just phoned auntie, your nephew, your best made down the pub and you kind of forget that you're working.
Peter Howard: Weirdly enough I do say to people at work, if I'm going out and I'm talking to a customer and I'm sitting in front of somebody, whether they're a potentially new customer or a customer we've had for donkey's years, sitting there and chewing the fat and really getting a strong relationship going with them just by chatting, it doesn't feel like work, I do feel like I'm cheating sometimes, but that's what it's all about because everybody likes to be able to know who they're dealing with and trust them.
Yesterday, I won't say who, but I was with a client yesterday morning and I dropped in to drop some bits and bobs off that they're ordered, and I was in Birmingham, so it was easier for me to do it; so I dropped in. 45 minutes later, rather than just drop it off, "Thanks very much", 45 minutes later, two coffees and a biscuit later, they'd started talking about some other things and I knew that the one lady had a fantastic holiday that had been cancelled for three times; I knew that the MD there wants another motorbike, and the particular motorbike that he's talking about wanting, I know someone who's got one, not that they're selling it, but I was able to have a conversation about that. Personally, I think motorbikes are death traps, but that's only because I've been on a motorbike three times in my life and I've fallen off three times in my life, so, there's a message there.
Wendy Harris: Average there, yeah.
Peter Howard: I haven't got a pretty good hit rate there, but we could have just a conversation and the amount we laughed while we were talking was brilliant. But it welds us together, it cements us together so we're going to carry on doing business hopefully for the next 20 years. We've been dealing with them for 20 years already and I hope it carries on for another 20 and it's just because we get on and we like each other.
Wendy Harris: It's the right kind of infectious.
Peter Howard: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Thank you so much for agreeing to come on the show today, it's been just lovely to chat to you.
Peter Howard: Or in the words of Vinnie Jones, it's been emotional.
Wendy Harris: If anybody wants to pick up the conversation with you, Pete, about anything that we've talked about today, where's the best place for them to find you?
Peter Howard: You can either ring the office, which is 01543 473191 or look on our website which is easily named as PHddesign.co.uk, that's with two d's in the middle; or email me, which is again really challenging email this so get your pens and papers ready, peter@phddesign.co.uk. Nice to keep things simple.
Wendy Harris: We will make sure that we put the details in the show notes for you, brilliant. Thank you, Peter, it's been wonderful. To our listeners please do send us your feedback and comments, we do love receiving all of those that we've been looking at recently and make sure you share this with your friends and family that need to be introduced to Peter. Make sure you subscribe; the channel address is, as always www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast.
That's all from me, and Maud and Peter.
Talking to Wendy in this episode is ex-marine Jem Hills who you might find it hard to believe was affected by bullying and a lack of confidence.
As a release, Jem discovered Northern dancing and practiced as a bedroom activity that later led to an accidental release of freestyle dancing at a competition.
The dancing-built resilience and the foundations for the training to complete the Mud Run and onto his Elite Special Forces career.
The unity comes from being part of a privileged bunch of people who walk the talk, make sacrifices and put their lives on the line for Queen and country. Some stories are classified!
Listen to Jem, his experiences as a Marine, and the moment he recognized his life was going to change forever following a series of conversations…
Visit Jem's website here.
Connect with Jem on LinkedIn.
#military #antibullying #personalgrowth #classified
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website www.wagassociates.com
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 17
February 11th 2021
Wendy Harris & Jem Hills
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:04:36: No expectations
00:06:00: Marines training
00:07:33: Commando elite level training
00:08:57: Communication during training
00:10:07: Importance of building a culture within your company
00:10:29: Jem's time in the Forces
00:13:20: Jem's pivotal moment
00:17:20: Stepping out of your comfort zone
00:19:21: Madonna or Claudia Schiffer!
00:21:39: Mental and physical performance coaching
00:23:48: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to making conversations count, the podcast show that brings you business leaders to share their pivotal moments; a conversation that really caused a turning point in their life or career. Now, today joining me, Wendy Harris, your host, I have Jem Hills, ex-special forces, now turned performance team coach. I've had the pleasure of having a conversation with Jem before, I know that his pivotal moment is going to be inspirational and I'll just allow Jem to introduce himself. Jem?
Jem Hill: Hi Wendy, and thank you for inviting me on here. Just to give everybody a little bit of my background, slightly different to most. The starting point, I was really badly bullied so a lot of people actually go through that, it was at that time where I completely lost all of my self-confidence and the worst thing was losing your self-worth. I couldn't communicate, I couldn't hardly go out, unfortunately for me.
I managed to find my confidence again through dance. That dance was something called Northern Soul, it was a bit of a street dance and urban culture at the time, quite a few years ago, but I saw these guys doing this dance. I had no confidence at the time but I knew I wanted to do it. So, I ended up going back to my safe haven which was my bedroom at the time, getting hold of some of this music and practising and practising and practising, and slowly getting better at this dance.
That gave me the confidence to go onto a dance hall and start dancing it and then on one occasion, you look back in your life as you say, pivotal moments and my earliest one, it was a Northern Soul event. They announced a dance competition, I would not have normally gone into a dance competition, but everybody seemed to get off it, it was a really great song, everybody was on the dance floor and I just thought, "Why not?" So, got on the dance floor, started dancing and noticed that the judges were walking around the dance floor and tapping people on the shoulder.
As they were tapping people on the shoulder the space around me started to grow.Northern Soul is a bit of a freestyle dance and I started to start to think, for the first time in my life, I might be good at something and I probably exaggerated my movements a little bit, but I got into this zone and I got into an amazing place.
Unfortunately, just before the record ended I was tapped on the shoulder and I was asked to sit down, but that two minutes, two and a half minutes changed my life because it was the first time I'd ever felt that I could do something. I wanted more of that feeling so I found out where other dance competitions were, I went home, my little safe haven, practised what they had been doing and started going for dance competitions. I got into the top 20, top 10 and somehow I actually managed to win some of these dance competitions.
There are two things that gave me. It gave me back the confidence that I didn't have, because I was getting good at something and I had a passion. My life just revolved at that stage around Northern Soul and about finding where these other venues were, so I could go and practice and do more dancing. It was also giving me a fitness which I hadn't realised.
Those two combined, when somebody showed me a picture of Royal Marines and I didn't really have any aspirations for going anywhere, I just saw this poster and it excited me and it became a dream to go and join the Royal Marines. So, I volunteered and I applied to join the Royal Marines and then I passed. It's a bit of a difficult course, 36 weeks, probably one of the hardest military training courses on the planet, so I enrolled in this with 49 other guys and we went through this Royal Marine Commando training.
The great thing, well the fortunate thing about Royal Marine Command training for me, is that it's designed to help people pass. It's not actually designed to make you fail, as long as you stick with it and you stay the course and you do what's asked. I started that course as a fairly weak individual; it grows you, it grows your body and it grows your mind and it teaches you lots of things including determination and about resilience.
So, I passed out as a Royal Marine and I joined 45 Commando which is the Arctic War Zone Commando and spends quite a bit of time up in the Arctic Circle down to minus 35. Operating in those conditions it taught me to how to ski, it taught me how to climb mountains and what we call yomping mountains. We'd spend a lot of the time in the mountains and that was, again, building my fitness and helping my mindset grow to achieving great things.
Four years on, I then took the option of going for Special Forces, which is taking that bar to the extreme level.
Wendy Harris: So, to take you back to the dancing, there's a couple of things that sort of strike me that I'm sure the listeners will agree as well is that, by chance really, a love of doing something in your bedroom privately without letting people know about it, and just by chance getting up and joining in with something, with no expectation, that first pivotal moment that showed you that actually by chance leading you there, that you were actually better than you thought. It's not just about you being your own critic. Other people were judging you on that dancefloor, to the point where you very nearly were the last one standing.
Jem Hills: With that it's like if I look back, I really when it started, I had no confidence. So, it was a case of watching something from afar. I was watching these guys doing this dance initially but I dare not participate. I had never seen it before and it was taking that idea, absolutely not knowing if I was going to be any good or not, I just wanted to do it. I didn't know it was going to transform or develop into something that became a real passion in my life.
I didn't have anything else in my life and I started practising it in my bedroom, just by memory of what they were doing, and it was after we started to go to different clubs in different places it actually then started to get better.
Wendy Harris: But that journey of dance and going and entering other competitions and finally going on to win one, when you saw that poster boy of the Marines, in effect the dance had kind of given you that inner resilience if you like to go, "Well, why can't I do that? I'm sure I could give that a go". So, that natural resilience and fitness that you'd got through the dance was kind of just -- it's like sowing the seeds and the foundation of what you were going to need as that next step up.
That 36-week programme, is it as close to the programme that we see the SAS: Who Dares, is it close to that or is that just television?
Jem Hill: When we talk about Forces, we've got sort of normal forces and then we have a different level which is what we call Special Forces. The Royal Marine Commandos are infantry, they're higher end of the infantry level and it's a tough course it is a long course, but for military basic training that 36 weeks, it's designed to take somebody who is a total civilian at one end and push them out as a very effective fighting machine at the other end.
In the process of doing that, because they want such a high skilled soldier at the end or Royal Marine, the process is quite long because there's a lot of training that has to go in there to build your mindset up, and your body. I think nearly everybody starts off not as fit as they would like and so it's a traumatic change, those first few weeks, and to the amount of physical activity that you do. That is sort of basic military training.
Four years later, I volunteered to go to the elite level which is taking that training to a subsonic level. It's a different type of training; they're looking for different types of people. They're looking for people who have gone through military training, but are willing to operate on their own and actually ask questions. So, there's a whole different sort of process and push yourself further, and I think that's one of the things about military training. You get taught resilience, and it doesn't matter which unit you are joining, you get taught to push yourself further than you probably imagined.
If I look back to some of the hardest that we do in the basic Royal Marine training, one of the hardest things is the mud run. You wouldn't do it in your first week; you have to build up to be at a good physical standard to actually go on a mud run. You think you're probably about to die because they're pushing you, your body is not working but your mind is trying to give up. The whole time you're pushing your mind to keep going, keep going, keep going.
They know when your body can't take it anymore and they will stop you, they will pull you back and then take you back again and build you up, so it's a gradual build-up programme to be able to complete the Commando training which is right at the end of the course. And, it's all about that mindset, it's overcoming what our mind is telling us that we can't do this, you actually can do it, so we can all do a lot more than what we think we can. Sometimes we need to have somebody to help us do that.
Wendy Harris: Would you say that a key part of the success for that training being set up for success is the communication that goes on between the trainers and those going through the training, because it's a no-man-left-behind kind of attitude, isn’t it as well, that you've got to really pull together as a team, strengths, weaknesses and have that kind of bond as a unit?
Jem Hills: Absolutely, and I think that's one of the things I've learned. I mean now, as you mentioned, I'm an inspirational speaker and performance coach. One of the main things that you've got is that culture that you have in the Royal Marines and you have in Special Forces, it's like rocket dust. If you could bottle it and actually sell it, it'd be worth a fortune, because guys will do anything for each other, guys end up putting their lives on the line for each other.
It's like, "Why do they do that?" It's because they have such a belief in what they do, they believe in the organisation and they have a belief in each other; that's taught from culture. In the Marines we have a special term for it, but if you take that into industry it's having that culture and making sure the culture works.
I've worked with lots of different companies and some have an amazing culture within it, and some don’t and you know the ones that don't have a great culture, people will leave. It will implode and it just doesn't have the vision to get where they want to go. So, it's so important to be able to transform that culture when you're starting a company to make sure it comes with you and everybody believes in that culture.
Wendy Harris: I'm guessing the transition then from Marine to Special Forces, where you are expected to be on your own and independent of that corps, you've got to really have the best interests of the corps, if you like, at heart in all of those things that you are undertaking as a representative of it. I know that you can't talk about what you were doing as Special Forces, but how long were you in the Special Forces for, Jem?
Jem Hill: I had four years in the Marines and then I had very fortunately 20 years in UK Special Forces. I look back at that and it was such an amazing time. Where they have gone now, I mean the organisation that I joined was quite small and it has grown into this massive elite organisation.
I'm extremely privileged to work with some amazing people. I just can't describe some of those people, books are written about those people. They're some of the most amazing people that walk this planet. It's tough to get in it but it's an extreme privilege to actually be and walk with these -- what I consider they're legends, they're gods, they're amazing people doing a job that is really tough at the end of the day.
Wendy Harris: Jem, I think you need to be reminded that you walked with them too, so you're equally remarkable for the things that you've done and gone through. I'm pretty sure that a 24-year military career, that's nothing to be sniffed at, I'm guessing that there's been some fairly significant sacrifices too along the way. As a country, I'm sure we owe you quite a debt that we don't even realise.
Jem Hills: Yeah, I know there are always sacrifices. Still, when I look back, it's making the most of it and you mentioned a couple of things. I was chatting to one of the guys I actually went through Special Forces training with last night. Very rarely do we get together or anything like that and I got a call. We never brag about what we've done because when you're in it, you don't boast, you just get on and do the job. It's like in the centre of excellence, you have to be better or as good as the person next to you, and the calibre of people you are working with, and we just don't shout about what we've done. We don't shout about how great you were.
We actually -- that calibre of people it was amazing and sometimes you forget that you've been working with people like that. The conversation was like that last night, and we're just chatting that we don't talk; we don't shout out somewhere that this is what we've done. I mean I'm on a podcast now talking about it, but we have done it, we have been there.
Wendy Harris: It's private, yeah.
Jem Hills: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: To be fair, I have pressed you on it so I'm sure it wasn't in your mind to come on and say anything along those lines but I think it's important, you know, recognition goes a long way to keep your confidence, as well, in what it is that you're doing because sometimes you forget how brilliant you are as an individual. I know self-doubt creeps in and it takes, sometimes, for somebody to remind you just how brilliant you are; so, thank you for that.
So, Jem, everybody that comes on the show, I invite them to think about a pivotal moment. With 24 years behind you in the military, I'm pretty sure there's got to be more than one; but, I ask you to share that one moment with the listeners now and with me.
Jem Hills: When you asked about those different questions, you always look back and you go, "What did change my life?" and having served for 24 years, you come out and it's like, "What's next?" My mum had actually -- she was going through -- she'd got cancer and it was terminal, so I'd gone home and I was helping here out.
My mum died and the first call I got after that was from the 2IC of the unit I was in saying, "Jem, I'm really sorry to hear about your mum. Would you like to come back?" which was a bit of a shock. I was like, "I need a bit of time to think about this", but I'd been out for two years. I called him back two days later and said, "No, my mindset is coming out". I wanted to get into business; I wanted to get a much better understanding of life on the outside, and so I didn't go back in.
But, shortly after that, I got a second call. In fact, I got a third call; I'm going to come back to the second call. But, the third call, which was a pivotal moment, was that conversation and it was, "Is that Jem Hills; are you available?" We have a thing, when you leave Special Forces, there is a thing called "The Circuit" and everybody knows who's on the Circuit. It's not written down; you just know who's left Special Forces and that they're available. Somebody will know somebody who's available and they'll just give you a call when there's a certain job, and I got this call and it was, "Are you available?"
But, there's three things you need to know and you need to know them quite quickly, and it was job description; how long; how much. When I asked the job description, it was flying around the world looking out for somebody wealthy. How long was initially, "We'll give you a three-month contract, but in close protection, as a bodyguard, if you get on, it could be for life; if you don't get on, it will be a day; but, we'll give you an initial contract for three months and see how you go".
And then, the third question is how much, and the answer to that question, nobody had ever offered me that much money before. I was like, "We need to meet", and he said, "Okay, tomorrow morning, 10.00 am in London". I met the guy and a week later, I was on an aircraft to Brunei. I arrived in Brunei at 11.00 at night.
When you get off a long-haul flight, a little bit disorientated, it was so hot, 30 degrees; the humidity was incredible. Walking just off the aircraft, you're sweating everything and I hadn't come prepared for that! So, I had a nice coat on, and I was looking quite smart at 11.00 at night. I was there to meet my new boss and the sweat just started to pour off me!
I met this guy and he said, "Jem, I know you're probably knackered now. Here are the keys to your new Range Rover. Follow me; we'll drive down to your new accommodation", which happened to be the guesthouse at Palace Hall. He said, "Have a good night's sleep; I'll meet you at this hotel at 10.00 in the morning and we'll discuss the job".
I took over as Head of Security for one of the richest guys on the planet, Prince Jefri of Brunei, and I had an amazing two-year period. I ended up having a whole team of people helping me look after this guy.
Wendy Harris: Did you ever expect that that was going to be something that you would end up doing when you left the military?
Jem Hills: No; having said that, I came top of my bodyguarding course, so I had that skillset. I hadn't planned to come out and become a bodyguard; I had a place at Henley Business School to do an MBA; but, with my mum getting terminal cancer, I cancelled that and went home, so that sort of changed everything. Then, I got the offer of this job and you just take it when you need it. So, I took the job; it was an opportunity.
During the military, as a bodyguard, you do it with a massive amount of backup; but, what I wanted to do was actually do it as a civilian with no backup, just to see what it was like to put myself in that position. So, I've done it, it's on my CV and it is different.
Wendy Harris: It's that competitive edge in you, I think, Jem, isn't it, to just prove one more, push the boundary just a little bit further. You could have walked away after three months; that was the initial offer; but two years mustn't have been too bad?
Jem Hills: It was amazing! It completely opened my eyes to a different world when you're dealing with that amount of wealth. But, doing that job for two years, or a continuous amount of time, you suddenly realise you don't have your life anymore. You're working for something, and I wanted more than that; I wanted to be me. Although I was doing a great job, I didn't really have a purpose and I was just doing what was necessary to make sure that everybody in the team was safe. The principal is always safe, so you're constantly working that.
I went for a run on one of the beaches, and it's the white sands to die for, and I just ran and I was sat on this log and I was like, "Now what? What do I want?" and I didn't know what I wanted. I teach this stuff a lot. We get so comfortable in our comfort zone that the excitement happens just over there, and you've got to take those steps. You've got to take them on a regular basis to challenge ourselves, otherwise we do lose our purpose and we do lose, you know, what are we here for.
Life is not a dress-rehearsal. I do not want to be sitting at my graveside, or waiting in God's waiting room thinking, "What are the regrets?" Don't have any regrets.
Wendy Harris: No; time's too short. Certainly this year has taught us all that time is too short and to make the most and best of the time that we have. I so understand where you're coming from that you're serving somebody else, that you kind of lose who Jem is; what does Jem want; what is Jem getting out of this? But, sometimes you have to have that headspace, like a run, to let those thoughts in for you to actually listen to yourself as well and give yourself that room to have the conversation with yourself.
So, going back to the second call?
Jem Hills: That was the second call. It was the first call; the first call was pretty similar, but it was a friend of mine. The second call, I'd never heard from him before. The actual second call was a guy I'd worked for; he'd been one of my bosses and this is the one that actual set the seeds in motion. He was saying, "I've got a couple of contracts that might interest you. Come and have a coffee".
He'd recently set his own global security company up and he'd got these two contracts. One was for Madonna and the other one was for Claudia Schiffer and I was like, "Wow!" You've gone through the best bodyguarding school in the world; people want you because of that; you've got a skillset that is required.
I was thinking now, the option of these two; which one? And he was like, "Jem, you can have either one of these. Which one would you like to do?" and I'm thinking, "Well, there's no way I could control Madonna", and to be a bodyguard, you know, as a security PA, you manage their lives.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, I think I'd be with you. I'd be on the flight to Brunei than trying to keep up with Madonna; definitely!
Jem Hills: Yeah! I was like, "I'll take Claudia". I'd see the films, and it was six months in LA and six months in London. But, he turned around and he went, "Jem, don't take both of those because I need an operations officer in my new office and you'd be great at doing that". "No, I want Claudia!" He said, "Okay, have a week to think about it".
So, that was the first call I got, and it was during that week that I got the second call, which was the one that after the how much, I was like, "We need to chat". And then, during the interview of that process, in that café in London, when he started to talk about the principal, the guy I'd be looking after ultimately, it blew me away.
You don't see these opportunities coming, but when they do happen, jump in with both feet, get in there, do it! I had no idea what that was going to lead to but when I'm coaching, I think it's very important that we can be walking down a corridor and we can come to a door. If you're lucky enough, you can have an option of looking through the door and taking a peak and do you want to go through it; or, sometimes we don't get a choice to go see what's on the other side of the door. We have to take that leap of faith and just go.
Wendy Harris: And sometimes, what you see through the door isn't necessarily what you're going to get when you open it; that's also important to know?
Jem Hills: Absolutely.
Wendy Harris: Jem, what an incredible story. Thank you so much for bringing that to share with us today; I really appreciate that. If people want to pick up the conversation with you, any Claudia fans, how do they get in touch with you, Jem; where's the best place for them to find you?
Jem Hills: My website's pretty easy, jem@jemhills.com. I'm on Facebook, jemhills, and LinkedIn.
Wendy Harris: You're jemhills there as well?
Jem Hills: Yeah, I'm just jemhills; I mean, that's it. Yeah, so if anybody wants to have a conversation, I am a performance coach. I love taking people to that next level. We all need some help every now and again.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, and by performance now, Jem, we're talking of a mental variety as opposed to a physical variety; correct?
Jem Hills: It depends. But, it starts in the mind; whatever it is, it starts in the mind. And I think for me, just going out and doing a walk is really important. We have to have exercise. To perform at an optimum level, we've got to make sure our body and our mind are working together and we need to have a fit body and we need to have a fit mind. It's both of those; it's personal development upstairs and downstairs; and if you're not exercising, then you're not giving your body a chance.
It doesn't have to be extreme. I've done exercise to the extreme and I'm not telling you that that's what you have to go and do, but just doing something gets the heart going, it gets the circulation going and as you said earlier, when you do something like that, it gives you a chance to think. It's a bit of space, and that is really important as well. I have a great morning routine. It's exercise; there's some mindset stuff in there; there's a bit of mediation. I have to do yoga.
I didn't mention it, but I broke my back in service; I had a parachute accident and it took me a while, physically and mentally, to get over that. I'm pretty much okay, some people would disagree with that, but I'm fairly okay. It's just a case of having a routine, and part of that is that exercise. If I don't do it in the morning, it won't happen in the rest of the day because other stuff, you know how much other stuff there is out there?
Wendy Harris: Yeah, there'd be no room for it. Well, Jem, you've shared some great tips there as well on helping start the day. Get yourself in the right mindset. If anybody wants more help, please do reach out to Jem on all the platforms. We'll pop the details into the show notes for you as well.
All I can say is, thank you for joining me, Jem; thank you for listening. Please remember to subscribe on the website, which is www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast; you'll never miss an episode then. Thanks so much for listening, see you next time.
Making conversations about presentations count!
Delighted to introduce Lizzie Butler, owner of LB Communications, who met Wendy at a local online networking event and immediately hit it off.
They share how a bond of connection can happen without meeting purely because we trust our emotions.
The synergy of values draws people together and the basis of influencing others through conversation or communications calls to the right people, whether that is on a business or personal level.
Consider the language we use, body language, and how the recipient will receive your delivery and remember you.
Lizzie shares a deeply personal experience that affected her and the conversations she was having...
View Lizzie's events
Connect with Lizzie on LinkedIn
Visit Lizzie's website
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 16
Wendy Harris & Lizzie Butler
February 4th 2021
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:01: Want to get goosebumps?
00:04:16: Close your eyes
00:06:50: Forget Zoom, use the telephone
00:09:36: Lizzie's pivotal moment
00:12:09: Don't deny your emotions?
00:14:07: You must rest
00:16:43: Neurolinguistics
00:19:29: Fear of presentations
00:20:08: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast that brings you business leaders who are willing to share their pivotal moments that have created a turning point in their life and career. We're hoping that these stories really do resonate with our listeners and you enjoy listening to them.
Today, I have got Lizzie Butler in with me. Hello, Lizzie.
Lizzie Butler: Hello.
Wendy Harris: Please introduce yourself and tell everybody how we met.
Lizzie Butler: Okay, hi Wendy and hi listeners. I'm Lizzie Butler and I'm the owner and founder of LB Communications. Wendy and I first met on Jaz Greer's Business Connections. I think we had all of about five minutes because that's how it works. Then we went on to have another conversation which we set up, just us, didn't we?
Wendy Harris: We did.
Lizzie Butler: Although we never actually met in person, we just met via Zoom, the sort of platform for doing business at the moment, isn't it?
Wendy Harris: Yeah.
Lizzie Butler: It was funny, Wendy, because I was thinking about this the other day and thinking about making conversations count because communication of course is what I do. I help individuals and businesses to communicate better both formally and informally so they can get even better results than they're already getting.
I was thinking about and you and I and thinking about, "Isn't it funny how we've only had two conversations, one of them being five minutes".
Wendy Harris: Which was at about 100 miles an hour.
Lizzie Butler: Because you're on the clock; and one of them being 50 minutes.
Wendy Harris: Yeah.
Lizzie Butler: I was thinking, "We don't really know each other". I couldn't tell you what your favourite hobby is, or your favourite food and I don't think you would be able to tell me mine either.
Wendy Harris: Drink maybe, G&T, yeah.
Lizzie Butler: Yeah, we covered that one, absolutely. Yet I was thinking that if I knew somebody who was looking for your services, I would absolutely recommend you. Then I thought about that to myself and I thought, "That's a big step to recommend somebody who you don't really know on a personal level". That's a big step because of course, when you recommend someone and refer somebody, you're also putting your own reputation on the line as well, and yet I'd be more than happy to do that, even given that we've only had two conversations.
I thought, "Why is that?" Then I thought, "It's because, as human beings, we are emotional before anything else". We're emotional first, second and third and the cliché, "People buy from people" is absolutely true and I would like to add on, people buy from people they know, like and trust. I think with you and I, I certainly felt like we instantly connected, we instantly clicked, and that trust factor absolutely is there. That was two conversations.
Wendy Harris: I've got goosebumps, Lizzie. I've got goosebumps because this is just how unscripted these shows are, everybody. I agree with you emphatically though, Lizzie, that we laughed so much in that first five minutes because there's such a synergy in what we do in terms of helping people be themselves in their communication. You have a different route to market to mine, but essentially, we do the same thing.
So, we come across the same scenarios and I just knew straightaway that I needed to get to know you that little bit better and I think from that second conversation I was like, "Will you come on my podcast, please?" because I just think that there is a story to be told and to be shared and it is about making those conversations count.
Isn't it strange that we've not met, yet what you've said is that you would recommend me and likewise, so there is hope that we might not be physically connected but we are socially connected?
Lizzie Butler: Yeah, and also, I know for some people they can find it more difficult influencing over the telephone or online as opposed to face-to-face. My answer to that is, when I'm selling over the telephone, or should I say communicating over the telephone, I sometimes close my eyes, Wendy, because I don't need my eyes to listen.
Wendy Harris: Yes, that's true.
Lizzie Butler: Because when you listen and really, really also observe, then you're able to adapt your communication. Because I might be talking to a client, in fact, I will give you an example. It is a company who I'm working for and I was calling a number of clients and this particular one we had two conversations and it transpired that we could save that client in the region of about £4,000.
Wendy Harris: Not to be sniffed at then?
Lizzie Butler: No, not to be sniffed at, no. He asked me to put together a proposal which I did and sent that to him and then I followed up on the proposal. When he answered the phone, and it was an agreed time to call, I could hear in his voice that it wasn't a good time; even though we'd agreed that time, I could hear in his voice that it wasn't. His tone was much higher, his pace was much quicker suggesting to me that there were other things that he needed to work on at that time and that I wasn't going to be able to meet my desired outcome or success.
Wendy Harris: If you pressed it, yeah.
Lizzie Butler: You've got be able to do that. I have one phrase which is, "It's not me, it's all about you", and you have to know and understand your audience and what's important to them and where they're at, at that particular time. Because we know that when we communicate, we don't operate and exist in a vacuum and therefore I could say something to you, Wendy, that might have a negative effect. I might say something that I'm not aware of that you have a negative connotation with that particular word or phrase or whatever it may be. If I don't observe that, and if I don't hear that change in your voice or in your body language, then I'm going to keep going down that path which is going to make you feel negative towards me.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, of course.
Lizzie Butler: So, I've got to be able to stop that so that I can lead you emotionally to the place where I need you to be, so that you like and trust me. When we can get to that point, then I can begin to talk to you about whatever it is I want to talk to you about.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, it's powerful isn't it, the art of that. I did an article -- everybody's doing Zoom meetings, Zoom, Zoom, Zoom. Not only is it zapping everybody's energy but it's zapping your time, so your targets are not going to be met because you're not going to be as productive. My article was kind of along the lines of, "Do that first zoom. Get that first rapport built. Agree your next actions, but follow it up with a phone call". You really do have to concentrate on listening to what's happening and if you've got that rapport, you'll be able to tap in quickly to that personality.
Lizzie Butler: Yes, yes.
Wendy Harris: And you get so much time back because let's face it, you'll book out 15 minutes and you'll fill 15 minutes.
Lizzie Butler: Certainly, for some of the clients that I work with, their potential customers, not a chance would I have to meet them over Zoom; it's all the telephone. They have just got too much on their plate, so when I talk to them, I've got to be able to know how to manage my physical and emotional state so that I deliver the key message that I want them to receive and take away from them. I know that this is just a piece of the puzzle.
Wendy Harris: Yes, and it takes practice, it takes consistency, and you do need to get into the zone. If you're not going to be feeling it today, don't do it, it's not worth it.
Lizzie Butler: We have all done that, haven't we? When we have ignored our emotional state and then tried to get on the phone and communicate well.
Wendy Harris: Yes, go do something you hate. Take it out on something you hate. It never ceases to amaze me how people will press on, no matter whether it's a conversation or an action, when they should really just rein it back and do something else.
Lizzie Butler: Absolutely. I think the question that people should think about is, how do they want that person to think about you or feel about you when they put the phone down. So, for instance, the potential customer who I'd call with the money saving, I said to him, "I can hear this isn't a good time for you now, would it be better for us to reschedule this?" He said, "Oh Lizzie, that would be so much better for me, thank you. Thank you so much".
Wendy Harris: Yes, yeah.
Lizzie Butler: I'm on a different level then now, because then I'd built a little bit of empathy and trust and he knows that I can hear him and I mean really hear him, because a lot of people just talk. They think a conversation is about talking and, of course, it isn't.
Wendy Harris: No, it's not. Before we try and save the world from their bad sales calls, I'm going to bring it right back to what I got you here for, Lizzie, which is for you to share your pivotal moment with us. I know that you've been scratching your head and you've been thinking hard about this, so please tell us about your pivotal moment?
Lizzie Butler: This is something which was really pivotal for me three years ago, yet it's something that I continue to practice every single day and it's also something that I think everybody should think about. It was back in February 2017 and the conversation that changed my life is the one that I have with myself.
Wendy Harris: Interesting.
Lizzie Butler: For so many years, whilst I was successful, I wasn't quite as successful as I am now and that's because I changed the way I talk to myself, because conversations count and words matter; the words we say to ourselves matter. Prior to that, I was in fact very, very good at giving myself negative self-talk. I wouldn't expect many people to know or realise that, and that's because I gave them the version of me that was able to not show that.
When I learned how to talk to myself in a very positive way and I'm a numbers girl, and I'm a process girl; so if you have A is positive plus B is negative it means you're going to get some sort of negative reaction, but if you can make them both positive then you're going to get a positive reaction. What I learned to do was to change my internal communication to all positives, which means that I always get positive results.
That's what I help people to do now. So for instance, I'm working with, at the moment, two senior professionals who are going for incredibly senior promotions and I know they will both get this job, I know they will. They don't work together by the way; it's separate companies. The one thing that they feel that's holding them back, which isn't true by the way, is the self-talk.
They have limiting beliefs, beliefs that are holding them back and even though on paper, if they look at what they've achieved and they look up their skills and their attitude and how they're able to meet and exceed the criteria, they have limiting beliefs. "I don't deserve this". "Why me?" "I can't do this", or, "I can't get that", "Oh, that can't be right for me". "Oh, I don't know, it's easier not to go for it".
Wendy Harris: Going back to what you first said in terms of you not being as successful as you are now, what does that success look and feel like? Because people measure success in different ways and it doesn't necessarily have to be a salary, it could be a lifestyle or how you feel; tell me Lizzie's version?
Lizzie Butler: Okay, well the first thing is that I learned how to love myself again, because I'd fallen out of love with myself for many, many years. Something had happened in my life on a personal level, my grandma had died, and she was the most incredible lady.
Wendy Harris: They're the backbone to us, aren't they?
Lizzie Butler: Just wonderful, wonderful and when she died, I told myself, so this is my words, I told myself, meaning in my head, I told myself, "This is too painful, you need to get busy". Because I thought if I got busy then I wouldn't have to deal with it.
Wendy Harris: You just put it off.
Lizzie Butler: Yeah, because I couldn't grieve and I remember just feeling sort of, well nothing, because I couldn't allow myself to go there because it was going to be too painful and I didn't want to. So, I made myself incredibly busy to the point where I didn't rest anymore, to the point where I developed a fear of driving. I used to drive 600 miles a week, I couldn't drive on the motorway anymore. I used to feel as though the steering wheel was going to come off and the cars either side of me would crush me. I developed panic attacks; I developed an eating disorder. I developed all sorts of things.
Wendy Harris: So, those buried feelings were really desperate to try and get out.
Lizzie Butler: Absolutely, and in the end my brain shut me down and I had what I guess people would call now, I don't really like this word, a "breakdown". I mean, I didn't break; do you know what I mean?
Wendy Harris: No, you might have snapped a little.
Lizzie Butler: Yeah, it's same as the word "panic attack", the word "panic attack" is never going to make people feel good about themselves, is it? "Panic!" "Attack!" Do you know what I mean? They're not great words, are they?
Wendy Harris: No, no.
Lizzie Butler: So, I used to go for regular massage, because I used to do a lot of driving and I was a bit of a one-armed driver to be honest, so I used to have regular massage and I knew that she knew. Everybody else, the face was on, the filter was on, but I knew that she knew because I didn't tell anybody how I was feeling. I didn't tell my husband; I didn't tell anybody until the point where I couldn't keep it together anymore and my brain did shut me down. There were days when I couldn't even form a sentence.
Wendy Harris: That denial though, I can see myself back in a situation similarly when I lost my dad nearly 13 years ago, keep busy, busy, busy. Do it, sort it, and it wasn't until I was on a dog walk in the middle of nowhere and it just started to rain, and it was the summer. It shouldn't have rained, and I just got soaking wet and I was so furious with the weather and I broke down and the first person that I thought of was my dad. That was it; it was like the floodgates.
Lizzie Butler: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: It was about six years later.
Lizzie Butler: I think it's one of those things, it was only really sort of like the last 18 months. The time in between, it was a great time. I had two more children in that time, it was a great, great time. It was just the last 18 months, my body just couldn't take anymore. It needed to rest, because when you started working in a process, which means no rest, because I told myself, "You need to keep yourself busy else you will be sad"; so when your brain knows the processes, "Don't rest, don't rest, don't rest", it sort of ricochets, you see, you can't stop it.
Wendy Harris: You're not recharging anything.
Lizzie Butler: You're not in control of anything.
Wendy Harris: You're not topping anything up.
Lizzie Butler: No, exactly. I went to the doctors, the doctor said, "Have some antidepressants". I said, "I'm not sad, I'm not depressed, I'm just tired. I'm just really, really tired and I need to learn how to sleep again, I can't sleep". I said, "They're not for me, thanks". I remember saying, "Pills haven't got me here, they won't get me out. I just don't know how".
I was introduced by Kath to Chris Parker who is a communications specialist, amongst other things. He gave me the skills, the attitude, the process to retrain my brain. Within two sessions I felt like a completely different person. Panic attacks no more, never ever had one, I understand it's a process and like with anything if you do one process and that leads to another and another and another, then you'll get a desired end outcome, a result. If you don't want to get that result change your process.
I worked with Chris on a personal level and then, this is quite funny, it wasn't long before I said, "Well, my God, I felt really, really, really bad for so long, and now I feel so good". I remember saying to him, "We've got to do something this this. We need to work together. If we can have this effect on a personal level, then how can we use this personally and professionally so that we can communicate better; so that we can influence more positively; so that we can give people the skills, the attitude; so they can control their emotions, their physicality; so they can present better, they can pitch better, they can get the interviews, they can get the jobs, they can negotiate with confidence?
That's where it's come from, so it's really, really exciting, so that was sort of in the February 2017. By the October, I'd become an NLP practitioner, I've trained with the world's number one, Dr Richard Bandler and John La Valle and Kathleen La Valle, some of the world's best corporate consultants. The following year I became a master practitioner in neurolinguistics, I tripled my income. I do a lot of work for free as well. I think it's really, really important to give back.
I've done some work up at the University of Derby helping the BA Honours Healthcare Students get them ready, so that they can achieve their desired end outcome, which is whatever grade they're looking to achieve, and preparing them for when they leave. I'm also looking to work with West Park School, our children go there and the Head there, Scott McGregor, is absolutely on track with people and performance. So, I'm going to be doing some work there as well.
Chris and I are now in a planning and preparation stage whereby we're putting together a training programme, a high-quality training programme which will have different tiers so that anyone can access high-quality communication training, so that they can achieve the results they want and live their life in whatever ways they choose.
I'm really, really passionate about people and their performance and I don't believe that it should be just for those who have the monetary funds to do that. It has to be different levels so that everybody can access high-quality training so that we can really, really raise our game and get going.
Wendy Harris: You know what my creative brain is like? I could just see that you are the amplifier for it, because you've been --
Lizzie Butler: Yeah, Chris does say that.
Wendy Harris: Because you've been through it, and come out the other side, it's that passion because you know it works. You don't just believe it works; you know it.
Lizzie Butler: No, absolutely.
Wendy Harris: So, it comes from a much deeper place.
Lizzie Butler: It is and it's really, really powerful. I used to have a fear of presentations. Ask me to go into a room, network with 300 people, find out details about every single one, bread and butter, easy-peasy I can do that. Stand me up in front of five people and ask me to present, I'd go to pieces, because I wasn't able to use and manage my emotional state.
Wendy Harris: It's that scrutiny, it's a different type of scrutiny that you're under though, isn't it? It's about managing that as well.
Lizzie Butler: It is and when you learn how to manage it, you increase your chance of success. I can only speak for myself.
Wendy Harris: I know in my heart that if anybody came to you that had got a worry or an anxiety about anything in their role, when it comes to communication they are in very, very safe hands. Lizzie I can't thank you enough for sharing your story today. It's fascinating; I never know where it's going to lead. I'm sure the listeners are going to love it.
If they want to carry on the conversation and reach out to you, Lizzie, where can they find you?
Lizzie Butler: On LizzieButler.co.uk. Feel free to visit my website or email me, which is lizzie@lizziebutler.co.uk.
Wendy Harris: Brilliant Lizzie, thank you again. Listeners don't forget to stay subscribed; you'll never miss a guest. We've got some crackers coming up for you too, just like we've had with Lizzie today. The place to go is www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks again for joining me, Lizzie, and we'll see you next time.
Google has recognised this lady as the #1 marketing coach and her video series mixes humour with key messages, it is the lovely Janine Coombes.
In this episode, Janine and Wendy share how using the right language influences the conversations we have and how it affects our results.
Janine reflects on a conversation that a teacher asked her class "Are you a Feminist?". A question that has had a powerful effect on Janine's values and how it informs decisions.
Connect with Janine on LinkedIn.
Visit Janine's website here.
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website www.wagassociates.com
Making conversations about networking count!
Dr Ivan Misner is the Modern Father of Networking. With 36 years of continuous growth through the BNI network he founded in 1986, the organisation now has over 275000 members across 10000 chapters in 72 countries. Compelling author and contributor of 26 books including his latest titles 'Who's in Your Room?' and 'Infinite Giving'.
In this episode, Ivan and Wendy explore how conversation is the foundation of all growth and learning. How times have changed, looking back and also predicting our future generations' experiences, yet communication will still be the underpin even if how that looks has changed.
Tune in to hear this pivotal moment and how listening to your instincts can send you on a new trajectory of success. We just wish we had chance to ask about his amateur magician skills! From the blog https://ivanmisner.com/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/IvanMisner.BNIFounder/
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:03: BNI's global reach
00:03:51: The effect of COVID on BNI
00:05:40: The value of your network
00:07:03: Pandemic success stories
00:10:11: Ivan's pivotal moment
00:12:21: Networking for the younger generation
00:15:42: A glimpse of Ivan's bibliography
00:17:36: "Who's in Your Room?"
00:20:01: Final thoughts
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT Making Conversations Count - Epsiode 14
January 21st 2021
Wendy Harris & Dr Ivan Misner
Wendy Harris: You are listening to the official Making Conversations Count podcast with me, your host, Wendy Harris. I am so excited today to be able to introduce to you, author of "Who's in Your Room?", father of the modern networking, Founder and Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, who has just celebrated a mammoth 36 years of growth and generated a record amount of revenue for its members last year; it is, of course, Dr Ivan Misner. Ivan, how are you and where are you today?
Ivan Misner: Thank you, Wendy, I'm doing great; and, you obviously listen to the BNI podcast because Priscilla asks me that most of the time, because I travel all over the world now. Of course, in this zoom era, I'm doing zoom travel, which is really awesome because not long ago, I was in India in the morning and then I was in the UK in the afternoon; and, I think I was in Dubai later that afternoon. You couldn't do that in real life.
Wendy Harris: Certainly! Please pass on our best to Priscilla in the UK; we love her. We just always hang on that first opening sentence to you and yeah, of course, it's like we're time travellers now, isn't it; you really can travel the world?
Ivan Misner: So, do you know why we came up with that phrase? We came up with it because years ago, I got this email from somebody that said, "You're probably on the beach in LA drinking Mai Tais; you're not really doing anything", and I'm like, oh my goodness, this guy does not see my calendar! And so, we started talking about where I was and it completely eliminated this, "Oh, you're in your ivory tower" concept, where I was visiting regions.
I have 2.3 million miles on one airline alone, so I have travelled all over the world for BNI and it's been amazing and I've enjoyed it, but it's work.
Wendy Harris: Well, I think when you love what you do, it doesn't feel like work, and that's the best kind of work to do?
Ivan Misner: Yes, absolutely.
Wendy Harris: How many members have you got in the network now, Ivan?
Ivan Misner: We have over 275,000 members worldwide.
Wendy Harris: Wow! And, I think I saw a little clip that you'd reached a target of chapters as well?
Ivan Misner: I'll tell you the story. I had a friend and I went to him and I said, this was the middle of 1986 so BNI had been around for a year and a half, and I said, "You know, I think BNI someday might be able to have 10,000 chapters?" and he looked at me and he said, "And, how many chapters do you have now?" I said, "30". He laughed at me, "10,000? It's good to have goals, Ivan; very good to have goals". "No, really, seriously, I think it's possible".
Now, I'll be honest with you, Wendy, I did the calculations. I thought it would take 75 years to get to 10,000. I didn't think I'd see it in my lifetime. We did it in half the time; we hit 10,000 chapters at the end of December last year; 10,000 worldwide.
Wendy Harris: That's incredible, isn't it, really when you think that you've done it in half the time? So, here's a question for you then, Ivan: what's the next goal?
Ivan Misner: BNI wants to be in every entrepreneurial nation in the world, and there are some countries where that's just not going to happen any time soon, but there are still many countries to go. We're in 70 countries worldwide, so we literally could triple the number of chapters that we have in the organisation, which means that we then would make a difference for more and more people.
Last year, in the middle of COVID, this craziness of COVID, our organisation passed almost 12 million referrals. We generated for our members over $16 billion worth of business during COVID and, to me, this is the most amazing statistic: in December of 2020, our members generated more business for each other than they did in December of 2019, which is incredible.
Wendy Harris: Wow. I think, in lots of respects, I know that the current global situation has had a devastating impact on all corners of life; however, I do also see it's almost like from the ashes that the little seeds are growing, and there are so many good things happening that we're kind of more focussed than ever before on making sure we're spending time with the right people in the right places; would you agree?
Ivan Misner: I agree, and you use a word that I think is very a propos, and that is "focussed". I see people who get frozen by fear or focussed by fear, and BNI's been around 36 years; I've seen that a lot. We live in fearful times and I get that. Those people who allow that fear to focus them are way more successful than those who just get frozen by fear.
Today, more than ever, you need your network. Your network of people is there to help you and support you to get through difficult times, and I saw that over and over again in the last year. I am humbled by the things that I've seen, in terms of BNI members supporting one another and getting through these challenging times; it's truly amazing.
Wendy Harris: Certainly, with only being able to do very limited face-to-face in the little breaks in the UK, where we've been able to socially distance in very small groups of six, I've not really met any of my chapter members, apart from a couple of people that I maybe knew from before I joined BNI, or somebody that I brought into the chapter; and, I know that I can pick up the phone anytime to them. Certainly, joining BNI through these times has made a real big difference to my business.
Ivan Misner: Our membership went up during COVID. You know, I would say the first six months, many people were frozen in fear, and I've seen this in previous recessions. At some point people go, "This isn't working for me; I need to do something". And, during every recession in the past, our membership went up.
During COVID and the resulting recession, our membership went up because people recognised that their network is so incredibly important.
Wendy Harris: Well, certainly my network in my chapter, at any point they're my safety net. This morning, I had a little wobble about something else and I reached out to, you know, I would consider a really good friend, and basically she gave me a big strong talking to and said, "Pull your socks up", and that's the value of having a network. Yes, it takes time, but it's like family.
Ivan Misner: Your network is a beacon of hope in a sea of fear. They are the people that are there to help you and to support you, and we certainly have seen that in this last year and I think we're going to need to continue to see it for part of this year, at least.
Wendy Harris: I think it would be unrealistic to expect anything to change overnight. BNI itself has just proven that you can continue to thrive.
Ivan Misner: Imagine if this had happened in the late 1980s or 1990s; there'd be almost no way to stay connected with people. At least, we have the technology that exists. Yes, it's two-dimensional, but we can see each other and have conversations with each other. We can have meetings and BNI has continued to have our meetings worldwide via our online platform, BNI Online, as opposed to in person.
If this had happened 20 years ago, I would have literally seen the company that I've worked my entire life for go up in viral smoke.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. There are some small blessings that it didn't happen sooner. Certainly, in terms of the storm that we're in, everybody's in that same storm, but they're dealing with their own individual circumstances. What would you say is your best advice to sort of weather it out?
Ivan Misner: I think you've got to activate your network, sit down and have conversations with them. I've seen people during the COVID pandemic do some amazing things and most of them came out of doing online one-to-ones with people; two that really stand out in my mind.
One was a furniture re-upholstery company in the US and she had to let go of all her employees, because it's hardly an essential business. This was back in March/April of 2020. She did a one-to-one with one of her BNI members and the member just had an offhanded comment. He said, "You have a lot of cloth, don't you?" and she said, "I literally have tons of cloth". He said, "Have you thought about making COVID masks?" and she said, "No, I haven't". He said, "You know, you could go into the COVID mask manufacturing business to hold you over during at least the first few months of this?"
So, she went out and made 100 masks and gave two of them to each one of her BNI members and a few friends and said, "One's for you; one, would you be kind enough to give it to a hospital worker, you know, a nurse, a doctor, a senior centre employee; somebody that really, really needs these masks, and give them my card and let them know that I'm now making these?"
She got so many orders, she was able to rehire her entire workforce because now, she became an essential business. She rehired her workforce and they physically distanced; I don't like the term "social distancing", we need to be more social than ever. And, she hired them all back and she got into the COVID mask manufacturing business.
I talked to a member in Australia, who'd had a brewery, and he had to close down his brewery. But, somebody in a one-to-one said, "You have a lot of alcohol, don't you?" and he said, "Yeah, of course". He said, "Have you thought about making hand sanitizer?" and he said, "No". So, he went into the hand sanitizer business.
Wendy Harris: I know exactly who to blame for the gin shortage now!
Ivan Misner: Yes! It's been amazing and it's all happened when people got focussed by fear, as opposed to being frozen by fear.
Wendy Harris: My business sort of closed overnight. I had one day a month work at the end of March. My husband, he's self-employed, but he can turn his work on and off like a tap. For most businesses, it is really not that simple, and he couldn't understand why I was going up to my office all the while, working hard and talking to people.
What came of that was a transition, a book, my podcast, which I'm so proud of, and joining a network that was my safety net. All those conversations that were compounded at the beginning of the crisis has meant that I wasn't on my own, and that I was able to help other people in their need as well. We are, as you say, physically distanced, but even more socially connected than ever before.
Ivan Misner: Yes, very important to stay socially connected.
Wendy Harris: So, Ivan, I ask every guest to think of a pivotal moment in their life or career that really has created a turning point. I think that these stories really do help up-and-coming business leaders, and even people like me. I've been in business 16 years and I'm still learning every single day. Please, share with me and our listeners, your pivotal moment?
Ivan Misner: For me, I like to call it "my Brody moment". Martin Brody is the character played by Roy Scheider in the movie, Jaws. When he saw the shark for the first time, he said, "We're going to need a bigger boat".
I think my Brody moment came in December of 1985, and it stemmed from a conversation that I had in March of that year. But, in December of every year, I sit down and I reflect, how did this year go according to plan; where do I want to be a year from now, five years from now? And, in March I had one chapter at BNI and a woman came to me. She couldn't join that chapter, because her profession was already represented and as you know, we only allow one person per profession in our BNI chapter.
She said, "This is amazing. I could get a lot of business, but I can't join. Would you help me open up my own group?" and at first I said no to her. This isn't what I do; I'm a business consultant; I don't run a network. And she said, "Well, this is kind of consulting. You're helping me build my business". I was like, "That's kind of a stretch, but okay". My head was saying, "Don't do this, it's not your business", but my intuition was speaking to me and I think it's important to listen to your intuition, because it's your soul talking to you.
I said yes and I'm so glad I did because, as a business consultant, I could maybe help a dozen clients, 15, 20 clients at a time. But, in BNI, this company's helping 275,000 people and I really feel like that was my Brody moment. That was my pivotal moment in my career, listening to that little voice inside me saying, "Yeah, you should do that".
Wendy Harris: That need to help that comes to the forefront?
Ivan Misner: Yeah, exactly, because we don't teach this in colleges and universities anywhere in the world. We don't teach networking, referral marketing, social capital; it's just not taught. And, one of the things I determined at that time was that we need to teach it; I should be writing books, articles, material; and, we need to teach people how to build their business through referrals, because it's not being taught in school.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. But, something that I know is a hot topic of conversation is how our younger generation are coming through and they're so indoctrinated with screen time, than having a conversation and knowing how to approach a stranger or somebody new or whatever, that it's even harder for them to socially connect without it being on a keyboard.
Ivan Misner: Maybe. There's certainly some truth to what you're saying, but I look back to when I was a young man. I started BNI when I was 28 years old. I had no idea how to network; I was clueless. The one thing that the younger generation has that I did not was they do know how to network. It's online, but they do know how to connect.
We look at a generation and we see sometimes what we want to see. There's this great quote, and I'm going to really mangle it, but it's something to the effect of, "The younger generation today has no respect for their elders. They play games rather than work". Do you know who wrote that? Socrates.
Wendy Harris: Okay!
Ivan Misner: It's an issue that goes through the generations and I think, "Yes, you're right". They are very much online and they need to learn how to network in person, but I didn't know how to do that when I was in my twenties. I method acted my way through the process and there are tools and books and materials and websites and videos that help the younger generation that we didn't have in my generation and so, I wouldn't give up on them.
I think they have more opportunities to learn than I did when I was in my twenties.
Wendy Harris: I think you make a good point there actually, Ivan, that in lots of ways, they're practising online. So, it's kind of like a mirror, a reversal if you like, whereas where I method acted was on the market stalls, and you'd see the characters that would shout and scream and get attention and draw the crowds to their stalls and things, and you would adopt little nuances that you could see that worked that got people's attention and how people wanted to be treated.
So, yeah, I guess it is just a question of what's fashionable, because trends come and go.
Ivan Misner: They come and go; it's what's available too. We didn't have any of that available to us and for me in particular, my generation, networking was basically face-to-face cold calling. We didn't understand how to network. We didn't understand that networking was more about farming than it was about hunting. I wrote the first doctoral dissertation on networking ever written.
Wendy Harris: I didn't know that!
Ivan Misner: Yeah. It was published in 1993 at the University of Southern California. I wrote the first book on networking back in 1989. We didn't have any of that. So, we look at who we are now and we compare ourselves to the young people, we compare young people to us, but we have to look back at who we were in our twenties; and, I think we had as many disadvantages, just different disadvantages than they do.
Wendy Harris: I would be interested, Ivan, to go back to that book from 1989 and you could almost create a new book just by referencing back how things were there. My training was in 1988 and I see a lot of what I was taught initially, I'm relying on as my foundations now to everything that I do. So, I wonder what would crop up as the rising stars and the rising changes in that initial book?
Ivan Misner: The first book I wrote, I think sold like 20 copies, so it didn't do well. But, I took content from that book and expanded it greatly, and that became a book called, "The World's Best-known Marketing Secret", and I published that in 1994 and it's now in its fourth edition. I think that book has done what you're suggesting there.
What's interesting is that I took it to 43 publishers. 42 publishers rejected it; the 43rd said yes. That book now has sold over 250,000 copies; it's been translated into probably half a dozen to ten languages, so it's done pretty well. But, the marketplace just didn't see the need.
Do you know what the number one question I got in the 1980s from the media was? "Isn't this networking thing just a fad?" That was the number one question I got!
Wendy Harris: That's what people are talking about now about Clubhouse. If you'd like an invitation, I have a spare one; I'd invite you?
Ivan Misner: I've been invited!
Wendy Harris: I bet! It's what stands the test of time, isn't it? I think that it is that we just genuinely want to be connected and we do want to be helpful, and that's the reason for getting up in the morning, isn't it?
Ivan Misner: It is. I just did a book, I don't know if you've seen it? It's called, "Infinite Giving". I did it with two Brits; a yank and two Brits. We had to figure out whether to do it in Queen's English or American English, so we did it democratically.
Wendy Harris: But, you did it phonetically?
Ivan Misner: We flipped a coin and the yank won! It's called, "Infinite Giving: The 7 Principles of Givers Gain" and one of the things we say in there, and I've got a whole chapter on this, is that, "Giving isn't new-age psychobabble; it's science". We quote the studies done by Yale, by Harvard, by Claremont University, about how giving actually improves performance; giving thanks.
Helping people actually increases performance for both the giver and the receiver, and it's hard science; it's not new-age psychobabble.
Wendy Harris: I think it's incredible. I love your latest book, the "Who's in Your Room?"
Ivan Misner: Infinite Giving actually came out after Who's in Your Room.
Wendy Harris: Oh, did it? You're just a prolific book writer, Ivan.
Ivan Misner: It's what I do now. I'm working in my flame. So, would you like a minute on the concept of Who's in Your Room?
Wendy Harris: Yeah. Really, since I discovered this, it has dented the front of my brain.
Ivan Misner: Right, here's the concept. Imagine you live your life in one room and that one room has only one door, and that one door is an "enter only" door, so that when people come into your life or into your room, they're there forever; you can never get them out. Luckily, this is a metaphor, Wendy, but if it were true, would you be more selective about the people that you've let into your life?
Wendy Harris: Oh, definitely. I'd be pushing them out the way.
Ivan Misner: I would argue that it's actually more than a metaphor.
Wendy Harris: Yeah.
Ivan Misner: Here's what I want you to do and if you're listening to this podcast, I want you to do the same thing. I want you to think of somebody that you got out of your life and I want you to think about why you wanted them out. Were they toxic; were they difficult; what were the reasons you wanted them out of your life?
Now, I'm not going to make you say who it is, but I want you to think of someone. Do you have someone in mind?
Wendy Harris: Uh huh!
Ivan Misner: Now, if you're listening to this, I want you to do the same; I want you to think of that person. Now, I want you to think about why you wanted them out; what did they do to you? Think about something specific they did that just really upset you which was maybe one of the reasons why you wanted them out of your life; have you got that in your mind?
Wendy Harris: Yes, I'm holding on to that.
Ivan Misner: Okay, so here's the thing. If they're still in your head, they're still in your room, and they will be for the rest of your life, because the room starts on this temple and ends on this temple. It is everything in between your head, your mind; that's your room. So, the people who have come into your room, have come into your life, they're fingerprints are all over your brain and they will be forever.
So, it's very important for us to learn how to screen people out from getting into our room who aren't a good fit, and we talk about how you do that and what techniques you use to do that. Then, we need to figure out how to deal with the people who have gotten into our room. Sometimes, they're family members; we had no choice.
Wendy Harris: That's really helpful. I will check out some of those exercises to exorcise the people that I don't want in my room.
Ivan Misner: Well you can never get them out, but you can put them in a box and put them high on a shelf in your room.
Wendy Harris: Yes. Ivan, honestly, I just love talking to you; I could talk to you forever. I'm sure there are lots of valuable insights there for the listeners. I know that they can pick up the conversation with you; you have your own website. Where's the best place for them to find you?
Ivan Misner: Ivanmisner.com. I've been writing there for 14 years, twice a week, tons of free content. And of course, on social media, I'm on most of the platforms; Facebook, in particular, I've got about 175,000 followers on my Facebook page.
Wendy Harris: That's brilliant. Ivan, thank you so much for coming on the show. For the listeners, please do make sure that you subscribe on our channel; it's www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. You can listen on any of the platforms of your choice. Do subscribe, because you don't want to miss any of our past guests, future guests, and I just thank you for tuning in today. Ivan, thanks again.
Ivan Misner: Thanks for having me, Wendy.
Making conversations about returning to work count!
This is a conversation that every Mum will resonate with, juggling home and work is not simply a balancing act but a superpower! Clara Wilcox recognized through her own personal journey that the right support for Mum’s returning to work was only available from the employer’s point of view. This causes a biased approach and is not always helpful in an emotive decision-making process.
As pivotal moments go, Clara reflects on the conversations that triggered new thinking around her reality and how that was impacting on her mental health. Listen in to hear how Clara tells Wendy how she reshaped the life that led to her regaining control for herself and her family…
Clara runs The Balance Collective, providing return to work coaching for parents, and also offers confidence and self-esteem coaching services.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarawilcox/
https://thebalancecollective.co.uk/
Buy Clara’s book that raises funds for The Edward Trust here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Now-Miscarriage-Parenting-Rebuilding/dp/1916502709/ref=tmm\_pap\_swatch\_0?\_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Making conversations about capacity count!
When you listen to John you just know there is a bigger story to this guy as his accent gives it away! John has successfully built a business network and community to help people fill spare capacity and exchange services. It is a brilliant concept and if you’ve not come across it before yet in touch with Wendy and she'll tell you more.
In this episode the pivotal moment is closely linked to a light bulb moment after a clever question which leads John on a lifelong journey…you’ll have to listen to find out more.
Find out more about John's company, BBX here -
https://bbxuk.com/
Making conversations about mental wealth count!
Meet Amelia Thorpe, founder of Wellbeing 360, who talks to Wendy about how important it is to give equal priority to our mental and physical health. Listening to Amelia’s story will bring a beacon of hope that we can all take charge of our own conversations which will give us back the control that slips sometimes when times are tough.
Amelia’s whole life journey changed after she was asked one question. Listen to find out more…
Connect with Amelia here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/360-wellbeing/
https://www.wellbeing-360.com/
Making conversations about social selling count!
When you connect with what your next life move is going to be from a church pew it becomes a serious and real driver. Kim Walsh Phillips has had her fair share of adversity in business over the last 20+ years. Honing her craft to become, in our opinion, the number one Social Selling Strategist fueled by faith, love and lots of coffee.
Kim knows better than anyone that there is no such thing as overnight success and the only true route is by serving people. A work ethic we applaud!
Kim owns Powerful Professionals, a business that helps empower entrepreneurs to turn clicks into cash and identifying the super powers in others so they can fly high.
In Kim’s episode Wendy uncovers her pivotal moment…
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimwalshphillips/
https://powerfulprofessionals.com/
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 10
January 4th 2021
Wendy Harris & Kim Walsh-Phillips, Powerful Professionals
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:33: Making your business grow
00:02:19: Shizzle
00:03:42: Mess becoming the message
00:04:37: Kim's pivotal moment
00:06:59: Do it 119 times
00:08:18: Their passion feeds you.
00:10:10: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to making conversations count, the Podcast that brings you business leaders sharing their pivotal moments; a story and a conversation that has really been a turning point in their lives. Today, I have the very delicious Kim Walsh Phillips. Hello, Kim, thank you for joining us.
Kim Walsh Phillips: Thank you so much for having me, this is such a pleasure.
Wendy Harris: I was so excited when I got the confirmation that you went, "Yeah, I'd love to do this". So, Kim, tell everybody what you do now and how you serve.
Kim Walsh Phillips: I work with entrepreneurs who have great businesses, but they are tired of relying upon word of mouth and referrals in order to grow and they want to take growth of their business into their own hands, but technology totally freaks them out. So, they know they need to use social media to get out there and get the word out, but they're not quite sure how. I help show them exactly how they can do it so they can be empowered to do it themselves.
Wendy Harris: Well, that's brilliant because certainly now more than ever, we can't go and do the face-to-face meetings. Networking has gone online, hasn't it? We've got to be able to reach people in new ways, more than ever before, whether we like it or not. So, it's great that you do that. Is it course content; do they get you? How does it work for them to be able to learn that?
Kim Walsh Phillips: We have free content, we have courses, we have coaching programmes and we have virtual events, so it's a variety. It goes all the way from learning completely on your own to us doing it with you. So, it's a wide range of levels but typically people will come in, either from having read one of my books or heard me speak somewhere or clicking on one of my adds, and then they will get a free piece of content, and then will end up enrolling in a course. Then they go on to a coaching programme with us.
Wendy Harris: So, clearly the value is that the material that you've written in your books is kind of the starting point of them getting to know you and that you do know what you're talking about, Kim, don't you really. I didn't know until after you'd agreed to come on the show and somebody said, "Ooh, Kim, she's brilliant. Have you seen her on Facebook?" "I hang out on LinkedIn not on Facebook". So, I was like, "This lady really does know how to do this shizzle".
Kim Walsh Phillips: This is the one of the things about my coaching style. I will never teach something I haven't implemented successfully for at least 90 days, because there are people who also do something successfully and it works for them for a week and they go and teach it, but we know a lot of strategies can work for a little tiny bit but then they dissolve. So, I never teach something that doesn't work. One of the main things I teach people, especially when they're first getting involved in social media, is how to quickly grow their audience. I have over a million followers on Facebook, that I have grown from my own audience, right. So, I show people how to do that, so I am living proof of how it works before I ever try to teach something.
Wendy Harris: Do you know what, Kim, I'm going to have to get myself on one of those courses, I think. I've been watching some of the videos that you do to your audience and you're a really chatty lady, you tell it how it is, and you've been there. That's clear that you're not sort of sitting in this position of success and going, "Hey, look at me". You're like, "Come on guys, come and join me, it's brilliant over here", and that's amazing to see that passion for other people to do well.
Kim Walsh Phillips: I've had a whisper from God for a very long time that I went through all that I went through with the struggles and trails and tribulations and bankruptcy to working all hours of the night for a reason. That was because my mess was going to become my message, not so that I could get paid hundreds of thousand dollars to speak on a stage of people who would do nothing with it, but so I could work with the action takers who could shortcut their map, their road to success and achieve what they have been created to do.
So, my soul purpose for living, besides being a mamma to my kids and a great wife to my husband, is to empower entrepreneurs so that they can fulfil the purpose of why they're here on this Earth. So, thank you for saying that, because that's truly why I share my story and my strategies out in the World.
Wendy Harris: That's many that don't want to give it away, so I'm glad that you do the work that you do. You touched on there a little bit on the trials and tribulations of your life, so I'm kind of now wondering if that's leading up to the question that I ask everybody to come and share their pivotal moment and that conversation that created a turning point. So, Kim, tell us your story, please.
Kim Walsh Phillips: As any great entrepreneur will tell you, there have been many pivots, there's not just one, but I'll pick just one. I've owned my company for 20 years, so there's been many, but one of the major turning points in our company was that I was looking to scale. We had 30 clients at a maximum and it was exhausting; we could never go past it and I felt this calling to serve more people, but I really didn't know how. I was relying upon word of mouth and referrals to grow and so I knew I needed to do something different.
I'm someone who believes that you follow the Tony Robbins philosophy that you find people who have achieved the success you want, and you copy what they do, and you'll have that same success. So, I was listening to an audio book, it was actually Russell Brunson's Expert Secrets, which is one of my favourite audio books ever listened to. So, those of who are looking to create your company, it's a great one to listen to. All of a sudden, I heard him give this strategy and it was that when he was looking to grow his business, he did a webinar. Not a different webinar every week, which is what I'd been doing; we've been doing launches and webinars and pitches, but he had actually gotten a piece of pivotal advice in his world which was he was going to do the same webinar every single week for an entire year. It hit me like a bolt of lightning, like this is it. Instead of constantly recreating launches, we're going to nail one perfect message that we can do over and over again instead of creating all this extra work to create things over and over again.
So, I committed that week that I was going to do my webinar every single week and I did it every single week for over two years. I did it 119 times, we generated over $1.7 million in revenue from that one webinar, within a year, and we were able to scale our business. When I sold my agency, those 30 clients, I knew right away where I was going to put all of the cash that I got in the sale of my business, which is what I did. I used all of it to buy traffic, to send people into my webinar, because we had uncovered how we could successfully take people from knowing nothing about us to becoming a raving fan customer within three clicks.
Wendy Harris: That's awesome because you've done what everybody says, "niche", rinse, repeat. Keep doing it until your fingers bleed and your throat's hoarse and look at what happened.
Kim Walsh Phillips: It's like not even crazy but we see that as crazy. Sticking with the same thing until you make it better, I think we're also likely to do lots of little things hoping to achieve the results we want, instead of making the one thing we're trying to do better. That's where we fail, we don't stick with it because we get bored or we want to do something different and, yes, I got bored and yes, I wanted to do something different, but it was the most profitable hour of my week, every single week. It allowed us to grow in such a big way and so I think when you're looking to grow, especially from the beginning, the secret is not to do a hundred things.
I think one of the worst marketing messages that is out there, are the people who say, "You need to be everywhere". That is terribly dangerous because then you're going to be nowhere very strongly right, you need to pick two to three marketing strategies that you go super deep into before you do anything else in your business.
Wendy Harris: There is no point in reinventing the wheel all the time either, is there? As somebody's who's delivered sales and marketing workshops with the same content, over and over to hundreds of delegates, I know that every single time we delivered it, we uncovered a little tiny new piece to add to it. So, it got better and better every time that we delivered it. So, do it once and do it again, again and again until the point that you are on autopilot, but when you've got people that are listening to what you're sharing, their passion feeds you, doesn't it?
Kim Walsh Phillips: Yeah, it does and then this is the crazy thing, because we had perfected it, because I've gone so deep into it, I became an expert in it, which is what happens over time. No one named me the expert, I didn't go and get a certification, none of that happened. By me doing it over and over again and each time findings ways to make it better, I became the expert, and now people pay us, we have a coaching programme. The whole purpose of it is to show people how to launch their first signature course, use a webinar to sell it and scale it to a seven-figure business. That is a coaching programme.
So, you can over time go from knowing nothing about how to do something, to literally becoming a leading expert, not by someone having a magic wand or fairy dust coming from the sky, but instead by staying consistent with what you're doing.
Wendy Harris: The other point to pick up there was that you said you did it 119 times.
Kim Walsh Phillips: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: How many people will stick at it for that long?
Kim Walsh Phillips: Right.
Wendy Harris: There is no such thing as overnight success.
Kim Walsh Phillips: Exactly, there is no such thing. That's one of my biggest things to our newbies especially, because I work with so many people trying to become coaches, you cannot compare my Chapter 20 to your introductory chapter. My introduction looked a lot different than what my life looks like right now. I only got here, because I did those other things. People have the hardest time with growing their own business; expect things to be at stage 20 on day 1. They want that moment of like, "Doesn't this all work out? Where's my people to do all my things?" Like, "No, no, no, you've got to put the work in, in the beginning".
You get to live that other part of it after you've done that. For you to make this work you have to be willing to do the work.
Wendy Harris: That is just so true. Who was the special guest that just make an appearance? For those listeners we had a special guest then. You tune into WAG and we have a special WAG just turn up.
Kim Walsh Phillips: That's my Daisy and she loves to hang out over here and see her reflection in the window of my cabinet and start barking at herself. So, the only way I can get her to stop is to pick her up, pet for a little bit, make her want to go run. So, that's how that works.
Wendy Harris: It was lovely to see her, she looks like great company. Well, Kim, thank you so much for giving me your time today, and for the listeners and sharing your pivotal moment. I'm sure that that will encourage people to just press on, keep going if you're an action taker, you'll get there.
Kim Walsh Phillips: That's exactly right.
Wendy Harris: If people want to pick up the conversation with you, Kim, they can find you hanging out on Facebook, can't they?
Kim Walsh Phillips: They can, my name is Kim Walsh Phillips, I am the only one of them with that name so you can find me there and my website is www.powerfulprofessionals.com.
Wendy Harris: Fabulous, thank you so much for your time, Kim. To the listeners make sure you subscribe, tell us what you think in the comments and don't forget you can find all previous episodes on www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. It's been an absolute blast, thank you so much, Kim.
Kim Walsh Phillips: Thank you, Wendy.
Making conversations about digital marketing count!
When the Pandemic hit in early 2020, Henny Maltby turned to her husband as they both realised their business was going to change forever. Offering online marketing to large corporate businesses who cut budgets left a hole to fill. By opening the conversation up with local businesses, it was obvious what the next chapter would be for them at Pink Elephant Media.
Henny shares her pivotal moment with us and it is a great question for all business owners to consider…
Connect with Henny here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/henny-maltby/
https://www.pinkelephantmedia.co.uk/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Making Conversations Count - Episode 9
Wendy Harris & Henny Maltby, Pink Elephant Media
December 17th 2020
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:47: We share pink!
00:01:13: Linking up on LinkedIn
00:03:13: Exciting time for small businesses
00:05:02: Titanic big businesses
00:07:00: Have a little cry.
00:08:34: Kindness to small businesses
00:12:48: Henny's pivotal moment
00:18:39: You can't break it
00:19:42: Scared to phone marketing companies?
00:21:57: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the Podcast that brings business leaders to you, so that you can hear about their pivotal moments; a turning point in their career or life that really has had an impact and they tell us more about how that has impacted on their life following that pivotal moment.
So, today I have with me the lovely Henny Maltby from Pink Elephant Media. Henny, it's so great to have you here. The last time we had a conversation we could have carried on for hours.
Henny Maltby: I know I'm a chatterbox.
Wendy Harris: Something that we share. Introduce yourself to everybody, Henny.
Henny Maltby: I'm Henny. I'm from Pink Elephant Media; we are a web development and marketing agency, based in Tetbury in Gloucestershire.
Wendy Harris: We share pink colours.
Henny Maltby: We do, almost identical, which is amazing.
Wendy Harris: It's like we're twins.
Henny Maltby: I know, my husband banned me from having pink, so I made all my logo pink on purpose.
Wendy Harris: Of course, your love for elephants, my love for hippos.
Henny Maltby: Practically, we should just join together now and be done with it.
Wendy Harris: So, Henny, tell the listeners how we first met?
Henny Maltby: On LinkedIn. You'd made a comment, Wendy, about something to do with marketing, which I thought was absolutely spot on. So, I decided to connect with you and find out a little bit more about what you did. Although we do very different areas of marketing and business, there is a lot of cross-over between us which I thought would be really interesting to explore. So, we sort of connected on the phone, all during the pandemic, which has been brilliant, because it's great to make connections at this time.
Wendy Harris: That one conversation, that one comment, led to a connection, led to a conversation and has now led for me to say, "Henny, you need to be on my podcast".
Henny Maltby: Here I am, it is brilliant. Yes, I was thrilled.
Wendy Harris: It's all because I appreciated that you have a shared love of conversation; that you want to really make a difference with your voice, in your industry and for your clients. I think that was really what resonated when we did have that conversation that could have carried on for all day long.
Henny Maltby: Yes, exactly. It's nice to meet other women in this industry that are also striving for the same thing. I think that has been refreshing and nice to have because there's not many of us. There's a few but it's nice to just expand the network of women in marketing, who are doing great jobs. So, yeah, it's great.
Wendy Harris: You've been busy yourself. Through lockdown lots of marketing has been hit, yet what you have been doing has seen you busier than ever.
Henny Maltby: It has but that kind of leads us to our conversation; what it is that you are going to ask me. I won't elaborate too much because it kind of infringes onto the whole prospect, but yes, we have. We have been really busy, so we have been lucky.
Wendy Harris: It is great that clients see the value of the conversations that you're making, whether that be online. Everything's been driven online isn't it, because we're unable to meet in person?
Henny Maltby: Yes, I think it's a really exciting time, especially for small businesses. I think there's always been this be online chat that everyone always has with people like it's all moving online. A lot of businesses that we meet, they use their website just as a signpost to send people to say, "Here we are, we are a legitimate business, and we exist".
They're not really using their websites in the way in which they are designed to be used because they don't necessarily understand the usage of what it can do for them. Where big businesses have fallen during the pandemic is that they have lost their customer service. They are just not keeping up in the same way, although cut and furloughed huge amounts of staff; so, when you're trying to get hold of these big companies, they're no longer there to be got hold of.
Right, now is a really exciting time for very small businesses to really put their foothold in the market. So, a part of what we do as a business is, we say, "We can see what your competitors are doing online, and we can see what is working for them, what is not working for them and we can imitate that". But right now, what we are seeing is the small businesses are doing really well. I think for us that's a really exciting moment, as marketers, because we can start to move into those areas and get a foothold where the larger businesses are not going to keep up with us.
Whereas before, when everyone was operating in the same manner, it was a very different scenario in the fact that they had huge teams at it, everyone was working towards a common goal and they had more money to throw at it. We said it's a bit like chipping away at the coalface, just keep chipping away and you'll get more and more business, and it will get better. Now, we're seeing very large gains in businesses, even during the pandemic, because these big businesses are not coping with what is happening and not able to move as agile as a smaller business.
Wendy Harris: Trying to steer Titanic from the iceberg, isn't it? It's not going to happen.
Henny Maltby: I just think it's really exciting at the moment and I think that small businesses have a real moment to seize control and start to change the way in which we look for products or services now. I just think that that is the way that things are going to move.
Wendy Harris: I think that priorities over relationships because the pandemic has made us prioritise our health, our finances and every level really, hasn't it? I know that a lot of people have been avoiding some of the bigger online retailers in preference to putting money in the pocket of that independent retailer or that independent online trader; because that's what is going to keep the wheels of industry going, because they're putting the people at the forefront of their decision making.
Henny Maltby: 100%. So I actually think, although I know there's a lot of businesses out there really struggling and it's a really hard time, I prefer to strike a more positive note. There are some businesses that really can't operate and that's incredibly sad, but there's some businesses out there that you know in the future will go on and do a lot and they can get their foothold right now.
Wendy Harris: It comes down to how they communicate their message, isn't it, to people? It is just reassuring that the phone still rings, Henny.
Henny Maltby: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I hope that it's somebody who is going to spend a lot of money with you.
Henny Maltby: Me too.
Wendy Harris: That would be great, wouldn’t it?
Henny Maltby: That would be fantastic, carry on.
Wendy Harris: You can message me later and say, "You know that call I had, it's going to be a big deal". There are more important things. I have to admit that the announcement of the second lockdown, I woke up with a bad mood and I just said to my husband, "I really don't know what's going to get me out of this mood today, please don't try". He just said, "Do you know what, if you need to have a little cry, have a little cry". It was the best thing he could have said to me and I did feel a bit better and I just said to him, "I know that the most important thing in my life is my family and it's you and my daughters and it doesn't stop me from feeling the way I do about how business is going to be affected and how our lives are going to be affected again at work".
Henny Maltby: It's going to be up and down and it's going to be very reactionary to whatever we hear now, in that respect.
Wendy Harris: We have to keep the conversation going, don't we? Keep the conversation open with as many people as we can that matter to us. I think that is the key.
Henny Maltby: I think people still want to do business and I also do think that people are going to the high street, they're looking for smaller retailers. I think they're going to really appreciate the customer service side of what they're being given by these smaller businesses. That's going to get even more and more important as the time goes on.
I also think our demand for right now, I want something right now, is going to be much better. That was only going in one direction and I think now we're going to see people being much more easy, like you know, with postage charges and all these free returns from Amazon; and all these other big guys made it very difficult for the small guys to compete. And I think that people now really have an understanding of actually how difficult it is to get the infrastructure behind a very small business to be able to deliver the similar kind of service of Amazon and other people.
I think this pandemic is going to show a bit of kindness to those smaller businesses out there and give them a bit of understanding. I think it will reset the clock a little bit. That is why I think it is exciting for small businesses. Let's hope they all survive through this; that's the biggest key.
I do think there's a lot of opportunity out there that they just need access to in some ways, or they need to identify those opportunities and have people around like you or like me they can contact and say, "This is what we're trying to do", or, "This is the problem that we've got, how can we solve that from a marketing perspective or how can we stay relevant in this time?" We were having those conversations in our class all the time and I think they're important to have.
Wendy Harris: We're all finding a deeper well of resilience around thinking and keeping the businesses open as much as we can. I think my advice to people would be if there was a dream that you had and you hadn't the time to do it, now is the best time ever to go after that dream.
Henny Maltby: I 100% agree.
Wendy Harris: The opportunity is there for you to take that now, because if not now, when?
Henny Maltby: I think sometimes out of hardship can be born the most amazing opportunities. And I think as business owners, we will all know that in some capacity or another, that you will never have a smooth ride. I hardly know anyone who ever has a completely smooth ride along the way. It's a learning curve 24/7, and this is just another one of those.
But I think that I know sometimes out of my hardest times have come my best times, because you're forced to do something, and you're forced to move with the times. It's the minute you get comfortable that things begin to get a little bit staid and a big stagnant. There will be lots of opportunities whether it's with the companies that they've got, whether it's with new companies or whether they start something up on their own; there's a load of opportunity to be had at the moment. Big businesses are failing us on that.
Wendy Harris: As tough as these times are, I am in lots of ways very grateful that I am not where I was at the beginning of the year, because that was just making do, making best of something that was just happening because I was allowing it to happen. Whereas, the situation did change dramatically and I'm fulfilling things that I'd never thought I would fulfil so quickly because those opportunities are presenting themselves and I'm going, "Well, it not now, why not? Let's just do it".
Henny Maltby: Like this, exactly.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Henny Maltby: And it's brilliant and I do think genuinely, the podcast that you're doing connecting you to local businesses in a way that people aren't connected at the moment, we were discussing earlier; at the moment your feet are not on the ground, so getting a feel for what is happening on the ground is really important, and how people are feeling across the board and what note you're striking and if you're resonating with the right people. We haven't got that as businesses or as marketers at the moment, which is a really important part of what we do, is having a feel for what's going on. Digitally you can see what's happening. It's not the same as having ears to the ground and really listening to where that seed of change is.
From what I can gather, we've had quite a different experience probably through this pandemic. So actually, hearing some of the stories that you're about to tell everyone about is going to be really important because it gives everyone that sort of, "I can identify with that, and this is how I came through it", or, "This is how we did this", and I think that that really gives you that ear to the ground that we currently don't have and it's something that I'm definitely missing as a business at the moment; is the networking side.
Wendy Harris: I am just genuinely very, very fortunate that the guests have got some amazing stories to share and I just love to chat to people, so it keeps me doing what I love, which is great.
Henny Maltby: Win win!
Wendy Harris: Yes, it's fabulous. Which brings us quite nicely, I think Henny, for me to ask you for your pivotal moment. I ask everybody to bring the story that created a turning point, so please share yours.
Henny Maltby: As I said to you, we were trying -- I was trying to think of which one. We have decided to go with something, or I decided with my husband, we went through, "Which one shall we talk about?" We decided to talk about what happened now, because we felt it was relevant and it's had a massive change. So, the pandemic on my business, we had a lot of small companies doing website development, maybe doing a bit of marketing with us but not much. Then we had some big marketing contracts and the pandemic hit and the big clients pulled their budgets almost immediately, except for one.
We sat back and we were going, "This is going to be interesting", and this is what happens in marketing often isn't it, when you hit this? So, we decided to get on LinkedIn, on the phone, talking to people just like you, which is how we met.
Wendy Harris: Absolutely.
Henny Maltby: To get ears to the ground, to really work out what people were struggling with, what they wanted. So, ours is not based on one conversation, it is on based on numerous conversations. It's based on conversations with our clients, who instantly got on the phone and needed to change their business models or needed advice on how they can stay relevant or how they can deliver the same service that they do online, offline and working out solutions for them and what it is that they needed or where people were struggling.
The more conversations we had, the more I realised how reliant we were probably on the large marketing budgets that we had been dealing with, but also how loyal our smaller business base has been. We felt that -- we talk a lot about how do you beat your competitors online, or how do you build websites that really convert traffic, and really work. The way in which we do that is we educate our clients, and we tell them what's available to them, how it works, how you utilise that particular tool, and we offer them training around that so they can do it for themselves and keep their costs down.
So, we were discussing this, and we were shooting the same sort of videos again and again and again, giving people the same training; and we had to do this actually very, very quickly during lockdown. So, we had quite a number of businesses suddenly switching business models all at once, so it has been a relatively exhausting period. Once we'd got them sorted, we were like, "Right, that's great, but they're now going to carry on, there's no marketing budget here. How do we support them through this pandemic; how do we give more than what they're expecting; and how can we help them, because we ultimately need them to stay with us during this period, because that keeps my business afloat?"
So, with that, what we decided to do is create a training platform, as what we do as an agency for our big clients to teach them step by step everything we do. So, how do you do outreach on LinkedIn; how do you advertise on Facebook; how do you do all the things that we want? So, we've collected feedback from people on LinkedIn through our client base, how to use your website to really generate leads. All of those sorts of things, we've been collecting, and we are putting now and doing it all the time in between doing all the client stuff. But, as you said, it's a great time for getting jobs done. So, if not, when? Now, you know is the time to do it.
So, that is essentially what we are doing, we are creating a huge training platform for our clients, so our web clients get it free. Other clients will be a paid-for platform, so if they do not have a website with us, they will have to pay for it, but it won't be huge amounts. It saves them looking through 20 YouTube things, and, "Here's an advert in the middle of it, and now you need to pay me £1,000 for the end result of a snip bit of information that you're not quite sure how to implement or not implement".
It's also about education, what plug-ins can people use to increase their business. So, if they've got a WordPress site, which is what we use to develop, what is out there that is relatively low cost that would make a big impact and how can they change their business model very quickly to achieve these results that they are having. So, it's really about putting the power back in our clients' hands.
I think what came across to us during the pandemic is that sense of powerlessness.
Wendy Harris: I understand exactly. I love it Henny because that original conversation that you've had between yourselves was, "How can we help?" and that's born the fruit of the training platform that means that your clients are not helpless.
Henny Maltby: Yes, exactly.
Wendy Harris: They have somewhere to turn, to learn, to be able to, yeah, stay in control of a situation that very much feels out of control with lots of uncertainty in terms of what the future holds. It is exactly what I've been doing with the lovely Collette Bratton for the last four years in our sales and marketing workshops, is giving people the hints, the tips, the tricks that the big businesses use, to apply to their smaller business. Even if they don't want to do it themselves, at least they understand how it works so that they can get the right people to be doing it for them.
Henny Maltby: They understand what they're paying for.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Henny Maltby: I think what we do is seen as very much a dark art, isn't it, in terms of --
Wendy Harris: Isn’t it?
Henny Maltby: It is, and actually I think if they realised it's really not that complicated to do, and it is not something to be scared of and often you can't even break these systems. You could waste a bit of your time trying to figure it out, but you won't break anything, but give it a go.
Wendy Harris: It's like when computers came along. I'm of that generation that was introduced to computers in high school. The high school had a classroom, and the teacher would say, "You press the button on", and there'd be a certain way of closing it down. But they'd say, "Don't worry, it doesn't matter what buttons you press, you can't break it".
Henny Maltby: It is a bit like getting them to understand how Google Analytics works, so they know what their clients are doing. I was like, "You can't break Google Analytics, just go and have a play around with it. Here's some training, you can do Google Analytics training and provide free training". It's just giving people the power in this instance. I think at the moment, feeling like you're not sure what things do or how you can move forward or how you can affect your situation makes you feel very alone and very isolated at this precise moment.
I think often a lot of people who have phoned us up, they say, "We've got this site", and they’re not often clients of ours, yet the solution is really quite simple. I do a lot of consultancy work and you can say, "Well, actually if you do this, that will make a big change to revenue". Or, "You just do this", and I think people are scared of phoning up marketing companies or web developers because they think they're going to be quoted for huge sums of money, and at times that they can't afford it.
So, it's really just educating people about what we do. Yes, we can still help you do that. If you don't want to do it yourself and you want to stay hands off, that's not a problem. But, if you want to save yourself budget, this is exactly what we do, step by step, click here, move this to here, add this code here.
Wendy Harris: I think that's the thing, isn't it? We're all skilful at our own thing, you know, it's what we love to do. A lot of these things, certainly that you get involved with, Henny, in the online and the development, if you don't know the questions, how do you ask? In actual fact, you're giving people the right choices and it is about choice as to what you do about it next and how you go about it.
Henny Maltby: I think the answer is what do you want? And then let's look at where you are.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Henny Maltby: And let's work out how we're going get you there. Then you can relatively see what needs to be changed at that point, so they don't necessarily have to have the answer or know what question to ask; they just have to have a very clear idea of what they are trying to do and where they want to go. The minute they've got that, it becomes very apparent, if you can help them -- sometimes we're not the right person to help them, but if you can help them then this is how you can do it. This how you can do it in a cost-effective way; this would be a slightly more expensive way of doing it; and these are how your results in each of these different ways in which you can approach this will be different.
Then they understand the outcome of what they are asking for, they understand what they're getting for what they're paying. And I think that that's important, especially at the moment. I think it's really important.
Wendy Harris: At the top of everybody's priority list I'm sure, Henny.
Henny Maltby: Well, I think now especially as the pandemic isn't set to end immediately, that people are realising that they do need to be online. It's making sure that that set up is right and it's cost‑effective and at the end of that they have a business that is producing money for them, because that's what we all work for.
Wendy Harris: It's the point of a business, is to turn a profit, isn't it?
Henny Maltby: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I think it's marvellous. I know from our first conversations earlier in the year you’ve worked really hard and I think bringing this solution to people will be just perfect, because it just fits the values of you being able to help people in their situations.
Henny Maltby: Yes.
Wendy Harris: So, Henny, thank you so much for sharing that. Where can people find you, if they need your help to carry on this conversation?
Henny Maltby: You can find me either on LinkedIn under Henny Maltby, or under our website www.pinkelephantmedia.co.uk. Those are the two places that I reside.
Wendy Harris: You hang out, regularly, I know. It's been fabulous to talk to you. To the listeners please don't forget to send your comments, we do answer them all and don't forget to share this with your friends and family. Subscribe makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks again for listening.
Making conversations about copywriting count!
Joining Wendy in this episode is copywriter James Daniel. He describes himself as ‘That old guy who writes copy – you know, the beardy one with glasses.’ We should point out there could be other old guys with beards and glasses out there! It’s easy to like James style of writing because he’s a conversationalist who realises that people don’t speak geek or tech. He doesn’t talk jargon when he explains great copy.
Talking with James’ about his pivotal moment peels back some interesting layers that some would shy away from...
Connect with James here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jdcopywriter/
Grab his latest book ‘Before you JFDI’ for FREE here:
https://www.jamesthecopywriter.co.uk/
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:30: The power of conversational emails
00:02:19: "Do you talk like that at home?"
00:04:00: Maintaining a natural voice in conversation
00:05:13: Meritocracy
00:07:28: James's pivotal moment
00:14:40: The value of initiative
00:15:15: From journalism to sales
00:18:22: A (sneaky) second pivotal moment!
00:20:37: Final thoughts
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT Making Conversations Count - Episode 8
Wendy Harris & James Daniel
December 10th 2020
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast where we have business leaders share their pivotal moments to help aspiring entrepreneurs on their journey. Today in the studio, I am joined with James Daniel. He is EarthMonkey Media and does copywriting. So, James, it's good to have you here. Tell everybody how we met.
James Daniel: Thanks, Wendy, it's great to be here, thank you. The first sort of contact that we had, I think, was via LinkedIn, wasn't it? You'd been reading some emails that I send out every week with copywriting tips and marketing ideas, and I heard from you and I know you were particularly taken with one email that had some totally bizarre suggestions about a hippopotamus, I think, wasn't it?
Wendy Harris: Yes, I remember that clearly! It certainly made me read the email when I saw hippopotamus in the text, which meant I had to reach out. I actually thought, that's really clever, since I post generally on a weekly basis about hippos somewhere along the line; I squeeze my love of hippopotamuses in for everybody to share with me and I thought you'd written it especially for me.
James Daniel: I had, yeah! No, it's a funny thing, that injecting a little bit of humour and some vague stuff that doesn't really seem to naturally fit with business, it just gets people reading, so you draw them into your content. That's how I like to write emails. But, yeah, that was our first contact of course and since then, we've just been chatting and thought it would be a good idea to have this talk about how I sort of got to where I'm at now in my copywriting career.
Wendy Harris: It's purely that conversational style over that email. I'd seen some of your posts, which is why I'd subscribed in the first place, because I thought, here's somebody who really gets it, who understands that having a conversation through copy is the way to build relationships; so, I subscribed and I've just been a lurker of those emails really.
When that one was just for me, I know because it said something about hippos, I'm going to take it that it was just for me, I just had to reach out because that is what copy is meant to do; it's supposed to speak to people.
James Daniel: Yeah, it's the power of conversation. My first book that I wrote is called, "Do you talk like that at home", and it's based on a conversation that I had with somebody once. This is not what I want to talk about with you --
Wendy Harris: This is not your pivotal moment?
James Daniel: No, this is not, no!
Wendy Harris: But, interesting about a conversation.
James Daniel: Yes. Somebody at work who was talking, we used to spout all sorts of corporate garbage and we were talking about a process or other that was going on, something that needed to change, and he said to me, "Yes, I endorse that". And I said to him, "Look, I've got to ask you, do you talk like that at home? If your mum says to you, 'Do you want spaghetti hoops for tea?' do you say, 'I endorse that', or do you say, 'Yum, that sounds good to me, mum'; which is it?" It's conversation.
We're not robotic machines, we're human beings. We talk like this in natural sort of warm, human language, as if you're sat in a coffee shop with your friends; not writing a letter to the Bank Manager. And, that's an obsession of mine, is that conversation is key to everything.
As soon as you can make people feel that you are talking to them one to one, exactly as we're doing here, exactly as your whole podcast is about, then you instantly build bridges; you build a relationship, a connection with them. It's based on, I say, that human, that sort of warm touch and it's incredibly powerful. What you say is every bit as important as how you say it.
Wendy Harris: That must be the common thread through everything you do, through running a business and helping your clients with what you do in business as well?
James Daniel: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I've sold everything from hearing aids and mattresses to skin care treatments and an industrial safety harness, you know.
Wendy Harris: I'm glad you said that, because I was waiting for you to say, "Snow to Eskimos".
James Daniel: Oh, no.
Wendy Harris: And, "Sand to camels".
James Daniel: No. If you try to sell snow to, it's an Inuit, isn't it now? If you try to sell snow to somebody who's surrounded by snow, then you don't understand sales. You should be looking to try to sell elsewhere.
I've worked in this wide range of industries but, whoever is reading your copy, whatever sort of hat they happen to be wearing that day, as a consumer, as a business buyer, they're still a human being. You might alter the tone of your conversation a little, just the same as I might talk to my best friend in one way and, say, my auntie in another way, or something, and client in another; you'd alter that.
But, it's still conversation so it still needs to be the natural voice that you would adopt in that conversational environment, rather than thinking, oh, I'm writing now so it needs to be something different, like when they did English essays in school.
Wendy Harris: I understand completely; that tonality. When you have to put your posh voice on, because you pick up the phone and you need to say this … My best friend, when I ring her, she answers the phone, "Yes, hello?"
James Daniel: Like Hyacinth Bucket?
Wendy Harris: Yes! So, it's just a standing joke now that when she rings me, I answer the phone, "Yes, hello?" and it's meant to be off-putting to the person if they're trying to sell something, or get something, because they don't really know you; that puts them off. But, it's still that conversation, isn't it? If I was to just say, "Yeah, hello?" it's a bit more inviting.
James Daniel: It's having less pretence, really. We're human beings. Whatever your religious stance, we're basically all shaved monkeys underneath. We take ourselves too seriously and if you recognise that whoever you're talking to, we're mostly a meritocracy these days, whoever you're talking to, they're no better, no worse than you are; they don't deserve reverence; they deserve just basically politeness and curtesy. You talk to them just one to one, just the same as you would talk to anybody; that's so effective.
Wendy Harris: I think you've just conjured up the phrase to me that we come into the world and go out of the world in exactly the same way as each other, and it's just what happens in between that makes us different. I'm going to have to look up that word that you just said.
James Daniel: Meritocracy?
Wendy Harris: Meritocracy; I'm going to have to look that up. That's not a word I've come up against, so well done the copywriter.
James Daniel: Well, no, that's a cardinal sin for copywriters actually to use a word that somebody doesn't know, because you've failed in your job then!
Wendy Harris: Listeners, send in your comments; what's your interpretation?
James Daniel: By meritocracy, I mean that we get where we get on merit, rather than through advancement that isn't naturally due to us. Obviously, there are big conversations going on around the extent to which we have a meritocracy even today. But, I don't think anyone would deny that we're far closer to meritocracy now than we were, say, 100 years ago, 200 years ago; we're certainly edging in that direction.
My point in that really is that the days of having to treat people with reverence because of status that they were born into, I think is long gone.
Wendy Harris: Do you think that that's a little bit like, "Do you know who I am?"
James Daniel: Yes.
Wendy Harris: Yes, it's that, isn't it?
James Daniel: Yes, it's entirely that. Yes, I do. You're a human exactly the same as I am.
Wendy Harris: You're somebody that I've been talking and chatting to over time and is successful, however you measure that, to the point that I can't now actually get anywhere near to have a conversation, and you just go, "Well, you're still the same person"?
James Daniel: Exactly that, yes.
Wendy Harris: Interesting that this should come out today. So, James, conversation clearly is something that matters an awful lot to you? I think you could probably adopt my strapline of "Making Conversations Count", in all the things that you do in your copy.
Every guest that comes on, I ask them to share one pivotal moment for the listeners; so, now's your big moment?
James Daniel: Do you know, I struggled with this, because I narrowed it down to about two or three. So, there is one that is absolutely pivotal that I will share with you, but it was painful to sort of whittle down the list; I can tell you that.
Wendy Harris: You're not on your own!
James Daniel: So, you're kind of like, do you remember Roy Plomley from Desert Island Discs? He would say, "You can have one luxury and that's it", and he would be really vicious about it.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, it is hard, isn't it? It's hard to think of that one thing.
James Daniel: It really is. But, the one I've settled on is a conversation that I had back when I worked in the corporate world with the MD of the Welsh region where I was working. So, I live in Cardiff and I was working in the cable industry. I'll give you a little bit of background before I get to this.
So basically, I've been a writer for 32 years now, between journalism and writing for radio, TV, children's books, etc. And writing, particularly in the early days, doesn't pay especially way. As you become more established, you can make a living but through those early days, really you can make a part-time income at best.
When I got married, I was working as a journalist and decided, no, this isn't working for me; I'm not particularly enjoying it; the money's terrible. So, I decided to take a sales job just to make some decent money and I could focus on my writing work in my spare time. I was trying to break into writing more for TV, that sort of thing.
So, I did that in the cable industry and I spent two years working door to door, just knocking on doors, saying that, "We've brought the cable network into your area; let me tell you about what we can do with your phone and your TV, etc".
Wendy Harris: It's a tough job.
James Daniel: It is, yeah. I mean, in good weather, when you're going into a new area where everybody wants it, it's fantastic; but, when you're in an area that's already been marketed several times before and it's raining and it's dark and it's cold, that's a hard slog, you know. But, surprisingly, I was doing quite well with this, because I'd never seen myself as a salesman at all, but I am good at tailoring solutions for people. But, anyway, I digress.
So, I'd been thinking a lot during this time around how we can improve the business, and one thing that really occurred to me was, when we were going into these new areas, we were sometimes the enemy, because the engineers had been in to put the network into the streets; they'd dug up the streets; they'd made a bit of a mess; there'd been a lot of upheaval. And then, we were coming in to say, "Okay, now can we sell you something?"
So, it occurred to me that what we should be doing is building ties with the community before we begin the sales process. And, we had a community TV channel at the time, called On TV. So, it seemed to me that we could use that channel to strengthen ties, and it could be as simple as, we're going into this area so let's go to the local high school and see if we can film their school's sports day, or their school play, or something like that; or, some kind of event that's happening in the heart of the community.
Then, first of all, we build up good vibes with these people and secondly, we're actually putting something on the channel that they could only get through the cable network, so we were also giving a reason to take the service.
Wendy Harris: Reason to switch on, yeah.
James Daniel: And, I think the intangible good will is the more powerful aspect of that, but you know. So, it just occurred to me that would be a good thing to do. And, by this time, after two years of selling, I was also thinking, wouldn't it be great if they could give me a job running that channel locally.
Wendy Harris: Just a quick question though, James; was it VHS then? Could they record the channel onto a video cassette? We're going to blow some people's minds with that.
James Daniel: Well this was back in the late 1990s, so it was probably all still done on Betamax or steam, or something like that; I'm not sure. No, it was still the VHS days.
So, I put a proposal together. Now, our MD, Terry, still is the most amazing leader that I have ever known. He was incredible and he had 600-odd people working there for him and any one of them would have walked through fire for him. He didn't bully his way through business; he just inspired. He had an open-door policy.
I walked up to him one day when he'd given a talk to the sales team and said, "Could I make a time to come and see you; I've got a couple of things I'd like to discuss with you?" He said, "Yeah, brilliant, absolutely". And I took this proposal to him. He loved the idea, but more than anything I think he loved the way of thinking.
So he said, "Look, I don't think that we'd be able to get a budget to do something like this, as much as I like it, but I really like what you're thinking of here and I like the way you're approaching the issue; that you've identified a problem and come with a very detailed solution to it. Everything's fully costed and loads of programming ideas". He said, "Leave it with me".
Ten days later, I was called in to see my immediate boss, who was the Sales Director, who said to me, "Okay, so we want you to go onto a three-month secondment to our Head Office in Farnborough. Like I said, I'm in Cardiff; Farnborough is two to two-and-a-half hours away. It's a long commute, as I found out, because I spent eventually seven months driving back and forth from Cardiff every day; that was fun. I got to know every pothole on the M4.
He said, "Look, we've got you this secondment", and it was Terry, the MD, who'd had this chat with my boss and said, "Okay, let's keep an eye out for opportunity". As it happened, we had a new Marketing Director in corporate, who decided that the marketing team's approach there was all a bit ivory tower, and they wanted somebody from the ground level, who could come in and give a different perspective.
Wendy Harris: What you're faced with when you knock the door?
James Daniel: Exactly, yeah, rather than keeping things abstract and clever and witty, as corporate marketing often does. So, there were about 1,000 advisors around the country, you know, sales advisors, so to be picked out of that, I'll be honest with you, it was very fortunate; the timing of knocking on his door and saying, "Here's a proposal" just when that opportunity was about to come up. I was very, very fortunate with the timing there.
But, the result was I got the three-month secondment. At the end of that, they actually gave me a job as a National Project Marketing Manager, so I was on a different career path. After about four months there, I was moved back down to Cardiff, thankfully, and it eventually became sort of Business Development Manager, eventually covering half of the UK network as the company grew.
We took on acquisitions, other cable companies, so eventually I was managing half the network across Belfast and Glasgow, and across the north of England, all from that one conversation. So, it's thanks to that conversation that I have the house that I live in today and that I started to learn so much more about the marketing and the business development process.
It's just from having the initiative really and recognising that opportunities do not land in your lap, as such; you've got to go out and make them. And, I acknowledge that I was fortunate to an extent in this, but it's only because I made something happen in the first place.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, initiative's a good word, I think, James, because a lot of people don't probably value the initiative that is needed. And, on the face of it, that idea that you had that you went in with didn't happen, so it doesn't matter how good the idea is, it's just the start or seed of an idea that grew into something else.
James Daniel: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: It's a bit like planting something and not knowing whether you're going to get tomatoes, potatoes or onions. It really doesn't matter what it is that's going to grow, it's the fact that you've put yourself out there to say, whatever happens, I'm your girl, or I'm your man, or whatever?
James Daniel: Yeah. It's sowing seeds, it's making connections, it's showing people what you can do, rather than hoping that they're going to sort of say, "Right, who wants to do this?" because, if that had have just been put out right across the country, then I would have been one of hundreds and hundreds of people putting myself forward for it.
But, yeah, I think there is a good lesson for anybody in a career or in business which is, you've got to knock down your own doors; knock down the barriers yourself and pick what you want and start having those conversations.
Wendy Harris: The standout for me is you said that you left a journalist job and went into sales. I bet it wasn't half what you thought it was going to be and it was hard work to get even near the money that you wanted?
James Daniel: I mean, in my first month in sales, I earned three times what I'd earned as a journalist, and it was only about 20% as stressful.
Wendy Harris: Really?
James Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. I hated my life as a journalist, so that would be one of the reasons; but also, the money was just so much better. It was a relatively easy product for me just because I'm a lifelong telly addict and I just like talking about it.
Wendy Harris: There's not many people that would say, "Hands up", at school, "I'm going to be in sales". You would say, "I'm going to be a journalist". But, take the money aside from all of that, it's interesting that the skills that you had as a journalist have actually helped you shape into this new career path as well. So, don't ever underestimate the skills that you've got.
James Daniel: Oh, no, not at all. In fact, that was the thing that made it work, because when I began the secondment, the first thing they asked me to do was to find out why customers were leaving, so it was a project. Why are they leaving us, either by disconnecting or by running up a bill so that we switched them off?
I said, "Well, okay, I'm completely new to the business environment here. The only thing that I have that I can apply is my journalist skills. So, if I treat this as an investigation, I can do it and I can report everything back to you".
Wendy Harris: Was it what they thought, or was there another reason?
James Daniel: There were different people dotted around the country who had different theories and it was my job to travel around the country and talk to everybody and compile their theories on what it was, and then look at the data and see how that aligned to the different theories and try and make some rational sense of the whole thing.
Like I say, it was a completely new kind of fact-finding exercise for me; nothing I was used to at all. I'd never even used PowerPoint at the time and had to put it all into a presentation. Yeah, it seemed to make a different, because then the senior managers had me travelling all around the country again delivering the presentation and delivering recommendations off the back of it.
So, it was very much to do with the journalism side. And of course, when I left that job after nine years, everything I'd done previously in journalism married with all the stuff that I'd been doing in that job really to take me into the next part of my career.
In fact, this was the other conversation I was going to try and sneak in.
Wendy Harris: Go on then, James!
James Daniel: The second most influential conversation is one that I had with a recruiter not long after I left the cable industry.
He looked at my CV; I was about 36 at the time. He looked at my CV and said, "It looks to me like I'm talking to two 30-year-olds, because I don't know what you are. Are you a writer, a creative person?" By this time, I'd had a few TV shows on as well. He said, "Are you this creative person, or are you a sales, marketing and business development person?"
That really hit home, because of course I'd had very little sense of direction in my career. I'd just been, I like writing, I'm good at writing, this is what I'm going to do, and I was just drifting. This was where I finally settled on becoming a copywriter. But, it's the only thing that makes sense of that diverse background that I'd almost fallen into.
Most copywriters come to it as a second career. It's not a good first career; you need experience in either sales or journalism or marketing, and I'd managed to pick up experience in all three.
Wendy Harris: A golden shape?
James Daniel: Yeah, exactly. So, I decided to retrain, add qualifications and then start the business. But, that second conversation there was all about, okay look, choose a direction now, use what you've done, focus, move forward. So, that was also pivotal.
Wendy Harris: Yes. Well I would agree with why you would choose that as a backup to everything that you've done. Certainly, with the way the conversation has gone now, is that you've laid all your skills out, but everybody's encouraged to do that, aren't they? Put everything down, put everything out there, tell them what you can do.
But, if that then leaves you with a confused picture and you can't tell the story in your head about how to then utilise those skills going forward, it was a great comment and remark for you to go, "Hmm, I hadn't realised I was giving that image off of myself"?
James Daniel: Exactly. And now, when I tell my own story, if I'm meeting a client and they say, "Tell me about yourself", or if I'm writing a biography, I will very often start with that conversation with the recruiter; that critical moment.
Wendy Harris: James, it's been a blast having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your pivotal moment.
James Daniel: Thank you.
Wendy Harris: If people want to pick up the conversation with you, where can they find you?
James Daniel: They could go to my website, which is jamesthecopywriter.co.uk and you can get a free copy of my latest book there which is called, "Before you JFDI". It's about, you know, everybody's telling you to just jump in and do something, anything; and I'm saying, well, look before you leap. A little bit of planning before you strap on a blindfold and say, "Okay, let's try this", will go a long way.
Jamesthecopywriter.co.uk, NOT .com, because another copywriter called James beat me to that one by an hour to register that domain, so don't go to him!
Wendy Harris: Oh, no!
James Daniel: Don't go to him; it's .co.uk.
Wendy Harris: But, you're on LinkedIn as well under jdcopywriter as well?
James Daniel: That's right.
Wendy Harris: We'll put all the links in the show notes. Thank you so much again, James. For the listeners, don't forget to send us your comments; we do reply to every one of them. Share this with your friends and family and don't forget to subscribe. The link, as always, is www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks for listening.
How are you on your sense of self belief?
Do you wake up with pride about what a true rock star you are?
Do you do your daily affirmations?
If you answered any of these questions with, "no", you might want to listen to this episode!
We're making conversations about self belief count!
A true diamond, Buckso is very much aligned with herself and the many facets of her own personality. As an actor, speaker and coach, her mission in life is to help people connect with their higher self. Conversations are a huge part of what she does. Being aligned with yourself on a spiritual, physical and emotional level allows you to shine brighter in everything you touch.
Buckso Dhillon-Whooley is a well known actress, who has appeared in Disney's recent remake of Aladdin and is a frequent visitor to the cobbled streets of Coronation Street.
You will soon realise that Buckso’s pivotal moment was not so much about who she had it with…
https://www.instagram.com/justbuckso/
https://www.bucksodw.com/
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:01: Your higher self
00:02:20: The lockdown - a blessing
00:04:29: The importance of conversation to Buckso
00:05:13: Exposing your vulnerability
00:06:43: Irrelevant conversation
00:07:34: Being Buckso
00:10:58: Surrounding yourself with the right people
00:13:18: The background to Buckso's pivotal moment
00:16:43: The diamond within
00:18:50: First wave immigrants
00:21:58: The influence of your parents
00:25:05: Final thoughts
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 7
3rd December 2020
Wendy Harris & Buckso Dhillon-Wooley
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast that introduces you to business leaders who share their pivotal moment with you, aspiring entrepreneurs. These pivotal moments really can create turning points in your life and career and today, I have Buckso Dhillon-Wooley, an actor, a speaker, a coach to your higher self. I've known Buckso for a while; please introduce yourself Buckso?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: I connect with your higher self and our coaching sessions go via that avenue. There are a whole myriad of other things that I bring to the table as well, a little bit like the magician of the tarot card; they have a veritable banquet of tools that they use in their trade, and I too do that. I never limit myself by saying one thing that I do for people; it's a myriad of things; it's a holistic approach.
Wendy Harris: I think that perfectly sums you up, because not everybody needs one thing to help them?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Nobody needs that one thing; it's always a myriad of things. If only people realised that a bit more and were more open to that fact, that it isn't one thing that needs to be fixed in our life, it's a combination of things.
Wendy Harris: And I think sometimes, because you do think about it, it's not an alignment to other things that are going on, that what you think is the problem isn't always the root problem either?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Correct, and that's where you find that you continually come across obstacles. And, it's just not getting it right, "And I've followed this and I know it's that and I know it's that and I'm just not getting it right"; it's because it's not that thing that you think it is and a requirement to be more open and allow less control and more of a sort of natural flow to occur by being more open to opportunity.
Wendy Harris: And being able to listen to what other people can hear is going on that you can't necessarily translate?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: And your higher self, in fact. We've all got one, whether we believe it or not doesn't mean it's not happening. There is a higher aspect to us that is without any sort of judgement; that doesn't have ego; that has none of the things that we have as human beings in this 3D world that we live in. It's a part of us that is totally devoid of anything. It's very impartial and we really do need to connect with that aspect of ourselves, but we don't allow ourselves because there's too much going on. We busy ourselves with stuff to create more problems and we don't need to.
And I'll tell you now; this lockdown has been a blessing for me to find more of that in myself, to be able to clear the debris that's the flotsam and jetsam that's come across from living as a human being in life generally. So, it's been a great time for me to be able to really clear out that debris; that stuff that no longer serves.
Wendy Harris: I tend to agree. It's been a blessing in disguise for me as well. What it's actually done is given me back time to be able to clear my head and think about where I want to be, what I want to do, and to appreciate the priorities that perhaps aren't a priority, or haven't been. You say that they are, but do you really treat them as such?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: And, I was speaking to a friend today about a scenario that she picked up on with one of her clients that was having a bit of a tough time at home. And I said to her, as a thought, I said, "If you'd have been living in your normal life, doing your job like you're doing now, would you have had the luxury of time to be able to connect with that person, pick up on that?" and she said, "Probably not". And this is the thing.
We are so much more able to be more in tune with what's going on in our lives so, guys, you really have to make the most of this time, because this is the time where you really get to tune in with that; those assets of your life which never see the light of day, which will always be on the dark side of the moon.
Wendy Harris: It's like most things though, isn't it; we need light and dark for things to stay in balance?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Always. You have to, and people don't want to work with their shadow self because, "It's horrible down there", or, "It's unknown; I don't know what that involves", and it's not always bad.
Wendy Harris: No. I think the fear is that that bad will take over. It's like anything; it's in equal parts and you think that, well, if I've got to stay in the light and keep that in the dark, then that's never going to surface. But in actual fact, by actually seeing and recognising that dark, you can take its power away, can't you, and it can still be dark?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Correct. At the end of the day, it doesn't control you. And you have to have that balance of light and shade. Wherever you cast a light, there is no shade. So, once you do that in that aspect and area of your life, it removes the very thing that you fear, you know, straightaway with the fact that you've shone a spotlight onto it. "Oh, it doesn't seem as bad; it doesn't seem as bad as I thought it was".
Wendy Harris: And, that's all through conversation, isn't it?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Absolutely.
Wendy Harris: It's all through sharing, fears, emotions, thoughts, logic. It's breaking down all the barriers by using conversation and techniques. How important is that for you with what you do in your role, Buckso?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: I would rather have no clients at all than have people coming in front of me and not speaking their truth, and not showing their vulnerability. There is no point in me and you exchanging time, that valuable thing that we can never get back. There's no point in us doing that if you aren't going to make that promise to yourself to show every aspect the dark aspect, the hidden aspects, without any shame.
There's no shame to it, or guilt; it's about the vulnerability. If you cannot be vulnerable in a conversation that you're having, do not expect the desired results.
Wendy Harris: Do you think that that's, in part, because the way that society judges, that people keep those things back?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Primarily, it starts because of how they've been brought up. Primarily, it starts because of the conversations we've been exposed to as kids, and who we've come to spend our time with; and, how much of that time we spend with those individuals will make a bigger impact than what we think about that thing which exposes us.
What do we think about vulnerability? Well, the environment you're brought up in, if it's not been encouraged or seen to practise yourself by example, you know, nobody's led by example for you to be able to do that, you're not going to do it. So, it always starts at home, and it's further compounded by the friends you keep.
And, Dan Peña, he always talks about, "Show me your friends, I'll show you your future", and that's what it is. People are scared to show their vulnerability because of what they're exposed to, more often than not. You're quite right; it is judgement, but it's not --
Wendy Harris: Yes, in a different form. I'm guessing that that bridge between the vulnerability and the judgement is the fact that you have a consciousness that is trying to connect why that happened and why this is happening, and whether it's right or wrong?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: There's too much of that going on. When you think about it, 98% of what you do and think is done through the subconscious anyway. So, we spend too much time that doesn't actually garner any rewards; it's irrelevant.
Wendy Harris: I do see a lot of energy wasted in irrelevant conversation; I see that in the workplace as well. Yes, I do believe that there is a place for small talk, and I mean that in the nicest possible sense in terms of icebreaking and generally getting a feel and a flavour for a character or a personality, and this sort of thing. But, by goodness, when it's used to actually get out of doing what they should be doing, it's so frustrating.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yeah, because it's easy, isn't? It's easy, it doesn't upset the apple cart, it maintains the equilibrium, they can function in that space and they know how this works if they do this this way. And, they will continue to do that because of fear. But, it's always in place a fear for any of us, why we don't do something; it's fear, it's fear of it and what it will bring about.
Wendy Harris: Now, Buckso, when we first met, through the Love Ladies Networking Group, wasn't it, in Derby, that was one thing that I noticed about you, was that you are not shy at coming forward. There was no fear in you going up to somebody and just being totally you. And, a lot of people that go networking are not necessarily themselves. They go with worry, they go with fear, they're anxious. What came about for you to be able to just be so Buckso?!
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Do you know what, because it isn't something I turn on and off, it's just that's it; that's the steady baseline that I operate at. I just turn it up in public a little bit, like you would on stage. I am fundamentally who I am all the time, unless I'm really having a bad time of it and I'm in a bit of a dark place, which I visit now and again myself, because I'm human. And, you know, anybody who says they don't has reached the height of enlightenment and should actually be sainted.
But, for me, it's like one of those situations where I can go into any place and be myself. Don't get me wrong; if I went into a place where I thought people were in there that were of a higher academic status, different kettle of fish, because they're all going to be talking in a way and behaving in a way that actually isn't befitting for me. So, I wouldn't necessarily turn it up in there; I'd turn it down.
So, if you'd seen me in another environment that wasn't my chosen environment, you would have seen a different Buckso.
Wendy Harris: That's interesting that you would share that, because I think that's pretty similar to how I am. I would class that as a WYSIWYG; what you see is what you get. No matter what the environment is, you kind of mirror that environment so that it's pertinent. But, there's one thing that I learnt a few years ago and that is that really, it doesn't matter. The harder you try to fit, the harder it will be to fit.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: So, how do you sustain it?
Wendy Harris: You can't.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: How do you sustain that?
Wendy Harris: You really can't.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: That's how burnout kicks in; that's where imposter syndrome kicks in, because you shouldn't have started out like that in the first place.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: You started out up here; it's not sustainable. And, for me, how you described how I was at the meetings and stuff, for a lot of people that is off-putting as well. And I remember somebody telling me, from the networking group, that they suggested me to somebody to help them with their business, and right down my street regarding videos and lives and things like that. And they were a bit, "Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure about Buckso".
And, when she told me this, I was very taken aback because it's not ego-based, but I assumed that because of who I am and how I am, I expect everybody would like me when they met me, because I'm not offensive. But, because of my gregariousness and my nature, to some people they see that as a reflection of what they're not.
That turns them off me, because I'm reminding them of what they're not; not intentionally. That's on them; that's for them to go away and deal with. But, they chose to see that as something that was external, "It's her that's the problem. I couldn't have her helping with my business, because I'm not sure about her". Well, actually, it's going on within.
Wendy Harris: I would say I've been in similar situations and know that I'm not perhaps everyone's cup of tea, and I get that.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: But, that's okay.
Wendy Harris: That's fine, because I can't please everybody. And anybody that tries is, you know, going to find it hard work. But then equally, that wouldn't be the right person for me to work with either?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Correct. In lockdown, I've fallen in love with that aspect of it.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: I've really got to be best friends with that element and really got to appreciate -- because I was finding so many different ways to describe what I did and I was like, "What if they don't know what that means? What if that puts people off?"
I was just like, "Do you know what, I don't care; this is it; the coach to your higher self. If you've never heard of what the higher self is --"
Wendy Harris: Google it.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: "-- go and find out, or ask me because you're intrigued. Don't just say, 'What the [beep] that? What's that rubbish?'". Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it rubbish, doesn't make it anything else, or any less of a thing. So, I've just decided that's okay. That's okay, my people will come.
Wendy Harris: I think you're right that we are born into a family, so we don't choose them, but we can certainly control who we surround ourselves with. And, I do think there is a lot to be said with the people that you do allow into your inner circle as well?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Absolutely. And a lot of people, through fear of loneliness, which is another topic that I've touched on today, through loneliness will accommodate and allow everything and anything, just so that they're not alone.
Wendy Harris: Yes, and that's where bad behaviour creeps in.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yes, that's when you get your wrong clients; that's when you get your wrong colleagues; everything, because you are compromising your core values, the very essence of you, which you haven't actually got to find out yet. So, people should start with that first as well; find out who the bloody hell you are; who are you, really? Find out what your core values are and you'll have a starting point.
Wendy Harris: This all comes out in conversation, doesn't it? And, it's about being able to sit and take notice of the things that you're saying, maybe for the first time, or maybe you've said them a lot, but you're not really taking notice of what it is that you're saying that you ought to be doing. I've been guilty of that. Certainly in the last few years, I have made sure I am only doing the things that bring me joy.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: That's it. And it's unfortunately, I mean, maybe it could come to us when we are younger, but I didn't have anybody in my circle that could show me the way. I wish I had known about it more in my twenties and given less of an F. Why is it that I have to get older and grey round the edges before I start getting like it, you know?
Youth is wasted on the young. Why am I saying that? I never thought I'd say that, but it so is. Why am I finding this out at the age of 48?
Wendy Harris: We're now speaking like our mum and dad!
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Oh, for God's sake, you know! Why am I 48 knowing all of this? Why wasn't I 28; why wasn't I 38? Because you weren't and it is what it is.
Wendy Harris: And, priorities are different, aren't they?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yeah. What was presenting in life created that moment for you in that time.
Wendy Harris: I truly believe that everything I've done until now has brought me to this moment, this very moment, of talking to you, Buckso?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Exactly. And, I do think about the sliding doors element in life. Have I had a massively obvious sliding doors moment? And there has been, and that was when I went into acting 12 years ago. I could have gone back to the job on the railway that I had before I had the twins 18 years ago; I could have gone back to that job and worked my way up and become a manager and whatnot like I wanted to, because I was quite ambitious.
But, I didn't. I chose the route of acting, which was totally alien to me, but it was still something that was in my heart from the age of 14/15, that I had to just still exorcise that demon inside about that.
Wendy Harris: So, that earlier passion won?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: No, it's been the overarching theme in my life. It was suppressed, it was buried through life experiences.
Wendy Harris: Or frowned on; not the right thing to do?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yes. I just put it away because I started work, getting good money; great. Then I got married, then I had twins, then life took over and then acting wasn't even in my peripheral, even anywhere on my map.
And then, when I started getting -- the kids were about 5/6 and I was thinking, what am I going to do; what do I really want to do? Went back to doing beauty therapy; really enjoyed that. That wasn't enough and I was like, do you know what; I still haven't done anything with acting. Maybe I can just go back and be a background artist; at least I'm on set.
And, that's what I did. And I did that for a year or two and then a friend of mine introduced me to my current agent, who I've been with ever since. So, the background work I don't do, I haven't done for 12 years, and went into mainstream acting that people go to drama school to do. So, it was that thing.
But, I'll tell you, now lockdown's cast another eye upon that and maybe now, I'm having a pivotal moment in my life, where I'm changing direction altogether; not taking the acting away, but the focus has come off the acting and more on how I can be of service now.
I lost my dad in January, which has had a massive impact on the galvanisation of my emotions and thought processes, and has brought me to where I am today. So, for me, it is very much about, what am I actually doing here; what is my soul's purpose; what is the very essence of me wanting -- because you talk about joy, and joy only comes from you being fulfilled and doing that which is your soul's desire. That is what fulfilment is.
When people lead a fulfilled life, they're doing what their soul wants them to do. When we are sent these times of grief, whether it's through the end of a loved one's life, the end of a relationship, the end of a job that you loved; the end of anything brings about grief and that is a golden opportunity that we don't see, because we either bury our head in alcohol, drugs, exercise, food, anything to excess to bury it.
Wendy Harris: Denial?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Denial, yeah, because you turn away from it, and you want something to cover up the pain. But, if we allowed ourselves to let that pain to wash over us, the beauty that's revealed is -- another philosophy of mine that I've come to channel this year is the diamond within.
We've all got that diamond inside us but actually, I'm not even talking metaphorically; I'm talking about the 1-4 grams of carbon that are actually in our bones when we die that won't turn to ashes, you use to grow a diamond; that's why you can grow a diamond from ashes, because of the 1-4 grams of carbon that remained in the ashes.
And so, why do we have to die in order to reveal the diamond within? Why do we have to die when we know that that's already in us? There are the dark sides, the hidden facets of the diamond that we don't show people that could actually bring about a lot more meaning to our lives, and I really do think that people need to talk about death and grief a lot more than what we are doing.
I thought I was spiritual before but, since my dad's passing, I didn't have a great relationship with him either, so it's not like I'm mourning my amazing father. He was great, don't get me wrong, but I'm not coming from the place of a close relationship. But, it still did something to me inside. It flicked a switch which has changed the whole course of my compass. My ship has now started to pivot into another direction.
Wendy Harris: It's similar to when we're young and time being wasted on the young. When grief comes and we lose somebody, what actually shifts is the fact that we think we've got forever to tell them whatever it is that we might want to tell them, or talk to them about, or learn from them and journal them, or record history. And then, all of a sudden, it's gone and that opportunity has vanished.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yeah. Well, this is it and it's like, I've found out more about who I am since he passed, just from how the emotions have been brought up, what things have been brought up that I've had to deal with; learning more about him and who he was.
At the funeral, my sister broke down during the eulogy, so I was stood with her and I just piped up, "Talk to your parents! They were 25 once; they were 35/45 once; they had dreams and ambitions; find out who they are".
Because obviously, my parents are first generation immigrants from India and the whole diaspora that formed as a result of them coming to the UK, they relied heavily on each other. They've been here 60 years and now they are, well they're falling away, they're passing away. So it's like, hang on, I realise the importance of knowing who they are and what they came here for now, more than ever.
Wendy Harris: What strikes me is that, coming here as a first wave of immigrants, they in fact had to deal with their own form of lockdown.
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Absolutely.
Wendy Harris: You know, it's not a new thing. It's happened to many pockets of society over hundreds and thousands of years of displacement and wars and plague and famine and what have you. So, it strikes me as odd that we're complaining now, when really it's something that is just that wheel that's turned again, isn't it?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Well, I mean, I don't mean to offend anybody when I say this, I'm not the most articulate of people when I get impassioned about what I'm saying, but when we think about us being self-employed individuals now, right, women in business for instance, we get very worried when money's not coming in; we get very, "Oh, my business isn't doing very well", etc.
When my dad came to this country, he didn't have time. He had eight people to feed; six kids, you know, my mum and dad and six kids. And, if there wasn't enough money coming in, you went and got another [beep] job; did what he had to do.
Wendy Harris: It's channelling that energy into something productive?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yeah, it was survival, you know. We don't have that carnal need for survival, because we'll get fed somewhere, somehow along the way. I'm thankful that I've got a very supportive partner; he takes care of all the finances and things, otherwise I wouldn't have the luxury of being able to explore my career choices now in this moment of lockdown, where no money's been coming in for me at all with the acting world shut down.
But, the beauty of, what was that? That was ignorance. That was beautiful, sublime ignorance that they had, because he wasn't educated. And he couldn't tell me that it will be all right. He didn't have the TED talks of all these big speakers; your Bob Proctors, your Jim Rhodes. He didn't have the luxury of 1,000 books to read from, and, "What do you do in this analytical situation?". He didn't have that luxury.
And, I think that's the problem with us in today's society. We read far too much, we listen to far too many other people, we listen to other people's opinions of things far too much rather than just thinking, what do I need to do? I need to bring money in. What do I need to do that? I need to go and get a job.
But, they're the basics; that's what they did and that's what we need to get back to ourselves in business. Get back to the basics; don't be too fussed about what your business looks like to other people. Admit it when you're having a tough time and celebrate the good times. But also, know that you're prepared to do anything.
I mean, if it wasn't for my rheumatoid arthritis flaring up this year, I'd have gone out and got a job that was -- well, you can't even. That's the thing, it's like I can't even get out there and do anything, but I would. That's the difference. My mindset tells me I'll never go without, my bills will always get paid, because I'm prepared to do anything to pay those bills.
That's one thing I got from my dad. I don't think we realise just how much we look to our parents that are actually our compasses, and we don't realise that. We might be going against everything they say, but we don't realise that I made the choice that I made in life. I married out of my culture; I married a Caucasian, a white chap, and I did that because of what I didn't want him to be like, my husband, like my dad. I didn't want to be a wife like my mum.
So, everything I did throughout my life, it was what I did or didn't want them to be like with my parents.
Wendy Harris: You wanted to change the blueprint?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yeah. And then, he's gone now, so it's like, "Oh, right, now what do I do? Who am I living my life for now? What's my benchmark; what am I measuring up? Everything that I do, every decision that I make now, what am I going to measure it against?"
So, maybe that's my pivotal moment, was realising that actually, who am I doing this for now because, whenever I used to sneak out, it would be because I didn't want my parents to know that I was sneaking off and doing this, that and the other. And, when I was leading a double life, whilst living with my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband, and you couldn't answer the phone, I was doing that because of that.
And, everything I've done was because of this or because of them and because of the culture and what would people think? Gosh, that lifetime of having that. And then suddenly, I have what is perceived as freedom, really.
Wendy Harris: You've got nothing to rebel against any more?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Yes. I thought I was no longer rebelling when I made that decision and came out and told them I'm marrying this chap and I lost them. I lost my culture, my identity and everything, you know. For seven years, we had no contact. And thereafter the relationship was not like it ever was; the damage had been done.
And, I was okay with that, because it was a decision I made. That was a pivotal decision in my life, you know. And so, this is what I mean. You think you get the gist of life and you think you know it, and then stuff happens and it's like, "Wow, I never expected that". I never expected to feel this way about his passing, and life in general, and my future, and what am I doing in life; do I need to continue doing this?
What I do know for certain is that I need to be of service; that's it. And I don't mean joining a monastery or a nunnery, you know? I can't take a sabbatical from one certain thing, which we won't go into. I just know that I've got to be of service and I've got to make sure that every minute I spend with people are the right people. I've got to make sure that every meeting I attend going forward is the right meeting. I've got to make sure that the clients I take on are the right clients. I don't have time to waste; we don't have time to waste.
Wendy Harris: No. That is perfectly summed up. I'm hoping that people listen to that because, if there's one quote that sums you up to me is, it's called "the present" because it is a gift. And, it's something that I've had on my fridge for a very, very long time from a friend yet, when I read it now, not only do I think of that friend, but I always think of you. I go past the fridge and I always think of you, because that just sums up your whole attitude and outlook to life.
Buckso, thank you so much for sharing with us today; it's been amazing to have you. If anybody wants to carry on the conversation with you, Buckso, where do they find you?
Buckso Dhillon-Wooley: Okay, so you can get hold of me on Instagram, which is, justbuckso; those two words together, justbuckso. Then, my website: bucksodw.com. And anybody that comes through and quotes this podcast will get 20% discount for my services that are on the website as well.
Wendy Harris: That's really generous of you; thank you, Buckso. I do hope that people take that offer up. We'll make sure that we put those details in the show notes for you as well. It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Share your comments, send them in, we always reply. Share this podcast with your friends and your family. Don't forget to subscribe. You can do that at makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks so much for listening.
Making conversations about sales personality count!
Nicky Pattinson speaks the Truth in all she does! A northern lass who traded on the markets at the beginning of her career, similarly to your host. Now, Nicky has a best-selling book “Email: Don’t Get Deleted” and her own YouTube channel NICKYPTV.
Nicky is entertaining and magnetic in character! Working with the biggest brand names out there, she’s seen, well, pretty much everything.
Nicky is able to quickly connect with an audience and understand what makes them tick, leading to expert advise in sales and inspirational speaking to drive success for your business. Her down-to-earth attitude and sense of humour is captivating.
Find and connect with Nicky here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickypattinson/
http://www.youtube.com/user/HiyaItsNicky1#p/a/u/1/D3uE5uUoPko
nicky@nickypattinson.com
Sit back and listen to Nicky explain why she is grateful she Danced with the Devil…
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:45: From shoe shops to market stalls
00:06:30: Trance-phraseology
00:09:27: Making instant connections
00:11:04: Be someone, not everyone, especially on social media
00:12:37: Nicky's pivotal moment
00:21:55: Final thoughts
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 6
26th November 2020
Wendy Harris & Nicky Pattinson
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast where I bring you business leaders that share with me and you, the listeners, a pivotal moment that really has created a turning point in their life. I am so excited, because today I have Nicky Pattinson; hi, Nicky!
Nicky Pattinson: Hi, it's marvellous to be here. Thank you for even thinking about me.
Wendy Harris: We have to thank you wonderful Louise Jones, a good friend of mine and fan of yours, so I'm sure she'll be downloading it on every platform that she can.
Nicky, I know from looking at some of the interviews that you've done, you are what I would class as a "WYSIWYG", what you see is what you get, and you're not scared of having difficult conversations and bringing it to the fore for people to think about.
Nicky Pattinson: Yeah. What you see is what you get; that's who I am. And, it's got me into a lot of trouble over the years, but it's also got its graces. And I think it is me. I can't play games. You know, when I first started speaking all those years ago, people said, "Oh, crikey, that accent! She swears a bit", etc; don't we all?
People kept saying, "You've got to change, you've got to calm it down", but calm it down to what; somebody that isn't real? Those people are ten a penny, so yeah, absolutely, not everybody likes it but some people do, and you are what you are. I just am very grateful for anybody that listens and likes what I say.
Wendy Harris: I've liked everything that I've heard so far and I'm just thrilled to be chatting with you today, you know, somebody who likes to communicate. You get up on stage and you present to people. What do you talk about in your presentations, Nicky?
Nicky Pattinson: It used to be all about sales; long story. At 16, my first job was in a shoe shop. I sold more shoes in one day than anybody else could sell in a week. Wendy, I had no clue how I was doing it, I just knew it happened. Now, I can tell you every wink of the eye, every wave of the hand, as to what put that money in that till.
I mean, I've worked in all kinds of industries and long, long story. And, me and my ex-husband had a market stall in Huddersfield selling cakes and biscuits. Now, I don't often big myself up, but [beep] hellfire; I reckon that we had one of the most successful market stalls in the country, if not THE most successful.
We took a business selling other-make cakes and biscuits from £1,000 a week to just shy of £2 million a year. And, this is going back 30 years now. That was serious, serious money. But, we were 10% more expensive than anybody else, all selling the same thing. They were queueing out of the [beep] doors, you know. 9.00am until 5.30pm, Monday to Saturday night, you could not get near us.
We had five stalls in the end altogether, but it wasn't the stock; it was the way that we made people feel in our presence. And, if only I'd have known at that time, but it's more about advanced connection, advanced communication; be someone, not everyone; how to be seen; how to resonate; how to be someone in the world; and, that comes in many guises. And, it's taken me to so many places, but it started in that shoe shop and on that market stall.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. Now, not my first job, but I worked the trade as well on the markets; jeans and jackets. Saturdays, and before and after school on a Tuesday, and it was a fantastic community of people to be involved with. And I get it; they don't want that, "Can I help you, madam?" do they? They want, "How are you? What are you doing today then; have you got anything nice planned?" They want to be made to feel quite special, don't they?
Nicky Pattinson: We had a very particular way that took our customers to a very particular range of feelings, and I used to just sit and study, as I do now when I'm doing these projects. I'll watch and I'll look to see what people are feeling and then it's, well, what do we need people to feel to trigger something that gets them to buy or to resonate with us, or whatever it is that we're trying to get people to do.
It's almost like acting, but we're not acting because it's actually more real than real, and that's what I learned on those markets. We taught every single person that I worked with, that we worked with, and there were about 45 part-time staff at one time, but we taught all those people how to take those customers to two emotions: one was belonging; one was validation.
It was Maggie Thatcher's years; that's where we were in society. And, I worked out very quickly that my audience was single parents of low-income families, who had very little to belong to and didn't feel they had a value. I'll tell you what, Wendy, when they left out [beep] stall, they did, and they were addicted to coming back to us, because we knew exactly how to take them to those feelings of connection.
And, isn't it funny? If somebody had have said in those days, "You know what; you're going to lose everything; you're going to be in a place where people have to leave bags of food on the step, where you're going to be terrified that you're going to be homeless", I would have laughed. But, if only I'd have known that because of all that, I would have had all this. Isn't it funny where life takes you?
Wendy Harris: I think there's an awful lot to be said for emotional intelligence that, yes, we've all got a role to play, we've all got a job to do. But ultimately, to me certainly, it's about the experience that if you can't, at the end of the day, feel satisfied that you've given everything that you possibly could and you've not taken advantage; and I mean that in a negative sense of the word "advantage" because, let's face it, as women on market stalls, you'd flirt, you'd have a bit of banter; and I think that's the same for men as well, so I'm not talking sexism or anything like that; but, it is just about being able to spot that you can make somebody's smile wider on their face.
Nicky Pattinson: Yeah, and it's the phraseology. So, I talk a lot about trance-phraseology. What I mean by that is that when we say exactly what everybody else in that industry says, it puts the listener, the recipient of the words and the phraseology into a bit of a trance, because we've heard it so many times.
So, in retail, "Are you all right there; can I help you?" "No, I'm fine thanks"; that's our auto response. But, it's our auto response because we've heard that phraseology so many times that it just doesn't hit our consciousness. So, not only do we delete the words, but we delete the people saying it as well.
And honestly, I've done these projects and I've thought, do you know what; they're sending these young people and these returners to work out onto them shop floors, I don't just work in retail, and telling them to walk up to people and ask them if they're all right and if they can help them.
And, when they get rejected, deleted, more than a few times, they begin to think it's them. It's not; it's the words; it's the body language that they're using. And every industry has its own trance phraseology.
Wendy Harris: Well, we're conditioned as children, because out parents will say, "Oh, you shouldn't do that", and the kids go, "La-la-la". As kids, we stop listening to what we don't want to hear too?
Nicky Pattinson: Yeah, it's no wonder. But the thing is, and I guess what I do these days is I look at people, I look at businesses, we look at the emotions we need to take people to; we look at who people really are, not who people have told them they are; who you really are. And then, we find the words and the phraseology that ignites people and gets people to see you.
And, honest to God, I've just done a zoom of my own this morning for one of my own, "Be someone, not everyone, over 40 and beyond" course. It filled up overnight and we've already got a waiting list for the next one. But, it's funny because I interviewed someone that I worked with who is now a top makeup artist and it was fascinating when we talked about, there we were in Selfridges; and all we did, we changed the tone, changed the words, changed the body language slightly and we tripled overnight.
I can never see how people can't see it, you know, same in law firms. I can't see how they can't see what we can see; well, they can when the [beep] money goes in the till, Wendy. When those chuffing BACSes start going, suddenly their [beep] eyes are opened and, "Our Nicky" ain't quite so funny!
Wendy Harris: It's focus though, isn't it; it depends what your focus is? If you put people at the centre of everything you do, then you're going to take notice of what you're saying, how you're saying it and how people are reacting to you; that's really where you're making those conversations count.
If all you're going to do is put your goals at the centre and, you know, whatever financial reward or target that you want to set yourself at front and centre, you're not paying attention to what's going on around you, really, are you, in a human connectivity?
Nicky Pattinson: No. Put the business friendships first and the brass will follow, and I could tell you, honest to God, you could make a connection with somebody in a millisecond; you don't need to know somebody 20 years. I like to think that when people meet me, they wouldn't know me any better if they spent 20 years with me.
But me and Adam, well, the makeup artist, we were talking this morning about how those customers, many a time, would just hug us before they went. I worked at the airports. I mean again, we tripled everything we touched, but people would start to walk to the gate and then come and hug me and Paul Williams, who is now a senior manage at Christian Dior; but, we worked together and people would come and hug you because very quickly, we'd melted the reserves.
It was soul to soul, not customer to sale person; that's the difference and that's the skills that people need now, because that's where the planet is going.
Wendy Harris: And I think you're right. And, I heard a phrase this morning, "We might be physically distanced, but we're socially connected". It's understanding that, you know; I'm missing my hugs so much, I'm having to hug my husband every day. It's a real trial!
Even my brother yesterday on the phone, "Sis, I'm missing my hugs" and I'm like, "Well, it won't be forever"; well, I hope it won't be forever anyway. It is about people and I think you're right, Nicky, you know; you've got to touch people's soul, break down those barriers, reach inside, pull them out and go, "Come on, this is the real world!"
Nicky Pattinson: And meanwhile, while we're not physically together, we've got to get very adept at sending those emails, writing those Facebook posts, and immediately connecting on zoom, because the world is becoming ever more saturated.
The good thing is that 99.9% of all the people that you meet say the same as everybody else, which is why my little strapline these days is, "Be someone, not everyone". And, in so many cases, people speak live everyone. How the hell are we going to create resonance and get elevated from those words that everybody says? Got to find out who you are and that's the end of it.
Wendy Harris: You didn't mention phone calls; that's my speciality, you know, pick up the phone, make sure that people can hear you. I'm loving sending voice messages over all platforms now. If there's notification or something I want to say to somebody, I will just send them a voice message, because I think that's where I can really say, "I mean this. What I'm saying to you, I mean it".
Nicky Pattinson: I love voice messages and I love Marco Polo; that app. That's brilliant! All my friends in America, because of time zones, we all speak over Marco Polo. It's amazing; what a great app; get it downloaded.
Wendy Harris: I'm going to look that up.
Nicky Pattinson: Get on it and send me a message!
Wendy Harris: I will! I've got to write it down though now, or I'll forget. Nicky, I ask everybody to come on the show with a pivotal moment, a conversation that changed. Are you ready to share?
Nicky Pattinson: Yes. I've had a very up and down life, a lot of heartbreak, a lot of amazing experiences that other people can only dream of, and not that much in between actually.
There are some conversations that you never forget as long as you live and at the time, they break you; but then, you look back and you go, "No, that was a pivotal moment that was meant to happen to set me off on another trajectory". So, can I just start by saying that there's no malice in me talking about this conversation. It happened; it was part of my life; and I thank my ex-husband from the bottom of my heart for saying what he said now and ending the marriage, basically.
So, for anybody that knows me, my first son, Jackson, he died at nursery at 4 months and 2 days old. And they put it down as cot death, but it was no cot death. Witnesses came forward afterwards to say what had actually happened and at that time, I didn't take any court action. I was broken and all the money in the world would never have put that boy back in my hands.
And I have to say, just to finish that little bit of it, people often say, "How do you feel now, 31 years later?" because it's always going to be yesterday. Well, I still miss the man that he would be, that would be arguing over the dishwasher, that I'd be taking to Selfridges like I do his brother and buying him Ralph Lauren shirts, or shopping, or eating, or doing the things that you do with your adult children. I'll miss him until the day that I die.
So, when all this happened to Jackson, me and my ex-husband, we got the top cot death specialist in Europe and we went to London to see him. And they gave us this oxygen monitor that only me and my ex-husband could use; nobody else could use it. So, there was only me or him could babysit. And imagine the stress, because the [beep] beeper went off every two minutes, day and night. Not that there was a problem, but maybe a lead had come undone.
I'd not been anywhere for six weeks. I'd sat with my second son with all these monitors on for six weeks. I was exhausted; I needed a break; it wasn't a great marriage anyway.
Wendy Harris: I imagine you were under immense strain anyway, just because of what had happened?
Nicky Pattinson: Yeah, absolutely. My father was struck dumb; he couldn't speak. It took him days to get his voice back. My mother went straight down with a bad heart. The grief; he was the first grandchild, the first boy in the family for 70 years. I really needed to go out this particular Friday.
My husband played squash, so every single night, well we thought, but that is another story, that he was playing squash. So, every night, my husband would go out and I'd been on my own with the baby all day and I'd be there all night and he'd go out.
This particular Friday, it was the Wednesday and I said, "Do you know what; I really need to go out on Friday. Some of my friends are going out; will you babysit?" and he just said, "I'm not babysitting. I always go out on a Friday. I go to the same Italian with my friends and I am going". I said, "Oh please, come on?". So I thought, oh, he won't do that, he won't do that.
The Friday came and I said, "So, are you going to let me go out?" and he said, "Get yourself a babysitter". I said, "I can't get a babysitter because nobody else can work the equipment". So, off he went and the morning after, I got up, and at that time, there was always cash in drawers. And I pulled some cash out of a drawer and I just said, "Right, there's the baby, there's the monitor, there's the nappies and the food; I'm going out".
So he said, "Well, you've got to be back for 4.00pm, because I'm out again tonight; I'm playing squash and then I'm going out". We had like a double winding staircase and I got to the first level and I just said, "No. I will come back when I am ready to come back". He called my name, he called me Nicola. He goes, "Nicola", and I turned and he just looked and he said, "That's you all over. You've killed one baby, now you're just trying to get rid of the other".
And I just looked and it went all the way to the bottom of my soul; it was the end. I just said, "Your marriage just finished. Your marriage just came to the end". And it took another couple of years for me to actually get out of it, but I can't even begin to tell you the damage those words did. I let it permeate my soul.
But, looking back, and I genuinely mean this, people don't say things like that unless they're broken themselves. Unless they've had experiences that have taken them to -- maybe he was just terrified and couldn't say; I don't know. But I thank God that he did that, because the marriage did end, but I still had how we did it on the markets. And I have had this amazing, amazing life.
And sometimes, you know, we may have been married forever without that; who knows? We might just have bobbed along forever with him going out every night and me doing whatever. But, I just thank God because it sent me onto another trajectory, because I knew when I heard those words, I was completely alone.
Then, my mother died shortly after that; my father died shortly after that; and, there was just me and a 4-year-old little boy. It was those words that made me realise I would be completely alone on the planet for a time. And thank God, because we haven't done bad from it.
Interestingly, a similar thing happened last year with somebody I was in a long-term relationship with and again, you know, completely out of the blue, very similar words just scathing to the soul. And I was devastated; I was devastated to hear the same thing happening again. However, I can tell you, again, I look back and think, thank God, because again, I went on a completely different trajectory that people only ever dream of.
So, I'm very grateful to both of those people. I'm not that bothered for having it happening again, but I'm very grateful to those people! And that sounds a bit trite, doesn't it, but I [beep] am, because opportunities are coming now for this old bird that only come along once in many, many lifetimes, Wendy, and I perhaps wouldn't have taken them up with the hand-clapping that I'm doing now, had I had somewhere to put my head on somebody's shoulder on a night, thinking I was going to be there until pension.
Wendy Harris: Do you know what, Nicky, you've given me goosebumps, because being right at the bottom of those stairs hearing those words was devastating for me to hear, and I can completely understand that gratitude; because if anything, that's just kind of made you dig a lot deeper to make sure you make more of it, and it's on your own terms?
Nicky Pattinson: You know, I genuinely believe that we all move in soul groups, that somewhere, in other lives, we would have met. You can pull up at the side of a bus stop and see an old lady with wobbly lipstick and look into her eyes -- that's probably me actually -- and look into her eyes, and there's a connection. And you'd never know each other any better in 100 years if you sat and talked; you just know.
And maybe before we came here; me, my ex-husband, my ex-boyfriend, my son, my mother, my father, people in my life that have been significant and pivotal that have either held me up or nearly [beep] killed me, my ex-husband might have said, "I'm going to say this to you; I'm going to nearly [beep] kill you, but I'll tell you what; it will put you on a trajectory because I will fully release you that day, because you would have hung on if I don't do that".
Maybe my son, Jackson, said, "Mum, you're going to choose this nursery for me and it's going to be extreme negligence, it's going to be very difficult and it will nearly kill you; but, you will go on to help people that have lost children, because you'll know what it feels like, and it will put you on a trajectory to somewhere that other people can't dream of".
And, my mum and dad had a strange -- you know, I'm vegan because my parents had a beef farm and, God, the stuff I used to see and hear; and, it makes you different, but creates an intensity in your soul that you [beep] anything off to get to the place that you see yourself being. So, I thank God for that; I really do.
Wendy Harris: Nicky, it's a powerful pivotal moment. I'm humbled for you to share it with us today. I'm guessing there are going to be an awful lot of people that will be touched by your story and maybe even been through something similar and can resonate with what you've said. If they want to reach out to you, Nicky, what's the best way for them to do that?
Nicky Pattinson: Oh, nicky@nickypattinson.com; I'm on Facebook; I'm on @HiyaitsNicky on Twitter or Insta, but can I just say one other thing, because there is one thing that it's really left me with? When people say nice things to me, I can't stop crying, and it's a bit of a problem when I've been doing the gigs, because they can't stand up there going, "Right, today's speaker is …" and then say, "Do you know what, she's an absolute [beep] dipstick, and don't bother listening to her because she's rubbish".
But, when people start to say, she did this, she tripled there, etc, I've really got to fight back the tears. I don't have a shield against it and, yeah, it's really strange. Words change everything, good and bad and actually, they can both make you cry in a similar way, because laughing and crying are actually very similar emotions.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. It's when you combine the two and then you wet yourself … We'll just leave it on that note, I think!
Nicky Pattinson: Oh my God! Sorry, I'm just getting over flipping COVID; that's why I'm coughing!
Wendy Harris: I'm so glad to see you looking well. I know that you've had a rough patch. Nicky, honestly, you're going to continue to be that magnetic personality that I've grown to love. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Nicky Pattinson: Thank you, and thank you everybody for listening. Please just say hello. It might take me a couple of days, but I always, always come back to you. Thank you.
Wendy Harris: She does; she really does. Thank you for listening everybody. Don't forget, if you have any comments, let us know; we do reply to them all. Make sure you share this with your friends and family. You can subscribe always at www.makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks again for listening, everybody. Take care.
Making conversations about team development count!
Wendy is joined by Andrew Deighton today, who helps build and develop high performing teams through strategy and processes in today’s remote working world.
Wendy has worked with Andrew in a second business through mentoring and knows firsthand how his advice relates to many aspects of running a business. Andrew shares his time at Rolls Royce which leads to his pivotal moment.
This conversation discusses different opportunities and how they can positively affect your business, work/life balance and your family.
When Andrew was offered a promotion, that was perfect for him, it led to some interesting conversations and thinking about what opportunity looks like in reality…
Connect with Andrew:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewdeighton/
https://www.awddevelopmentsolutions.com/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count – Episode 5
November 19th 2020
Wendy Harris & Andrew Deighton, AWD Development Solutions Ltd
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:08: How Andrew and Wendy met
00:01:47: The new world of online conversations
00:02:33: Video meetings expanding the global reach
00:03:32: Some useful tips for hosting zoom meetings
00:04:56: Andrew’s feedback from his online sessions
00:07:42: Andrew’s pivotal moment
00:11:53: Memories of Singapore
00:14:06: How the children coped as expats
00:17:04: The typical day of an expat worker
00:18:23: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast that shares business leaders’ pivotal moments to help aspiring entrepreneurs. Today, I’m excited because I have Andrew Deighton here with me. I met Andrew about three years ago, and he has actually helped me in my business, so I know that I’ve had a couple of pivotal moments just off the back of meeting Andrew; so, it was great to be able to ask him to come on the show and share his with you too.
So, Andrew, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us.
Andrew Deighton: Thank you, thanks for asking me.
Wendy Harris: I know that we’ve known each other for a while. Tell each other what you do and how we first met.
Andrew Deighton: I run a training and development business now, so particularly focussing on helping businesses to build high-performing teams; and now, the situation we’re in, remote high-performing teams. And, I also help businesses who may be a bit bigger who need some outsourced training and development support, so putting strategies and processes in place around developing their people and their teams and their organisation.
So, we first met when I volunteered to do some work with Staffordshire Chamber as a mentor, and they introduced me to you and Colette and we started having a few business mentoring sessions.
Wendy Harris: Absolutely.
Andrew Deighton: The Holiday Inn in Burton!
Wendy Harris: The Holiday Inn and their cappuccinos, yes, because Colette is also known as my work wife for the sales and marketing workshops that we were delivering. We’ve not delivered any through lockdown, and that was purely because we thought that the reason that people loved our workshops so much was the interaction that they get in the room. So, this remote working thing really has changed.
How has the conversations that you’ve been having with delegates, you know, training online, how have they changed?
Andrew Deighton: Obviously, it’s different. I think it’s useful if you do get the chance to meet someone face to face first and then take it offline, but obviously that’s fundamentally changed now. So, I ran a webinar session two days ago actually, and strangely, and I don’t know why, but most of the delegates were from Malaysia; so, it just opens up that properly global thing without having to leave my office.
And, it’s just bizarre. I don’t know why it was or where it came from, but I advertised it on LinkedIn and Eventbrite and most of the people there were from overseas, rather than the UK, which was just strange. It’s really opened things up; the potential.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. There’s something happening in Malaysia that maybe there’s a skill shortage, they haven’t got anyone they can call to, and I know that you’re very active on social media in telling people what you do and how you do things. You do lots of video, which I think is great for connecting with people, so maybe that’s why your global reach has boomed?
Andrew Deighton: I try to vary things and see what works and what doesn’t work. Lots of us are learning, you know; we’ve had to shift. I’ve not shifted what I do or what I want to do really; I’ve just had to shift how I do it and maybe package things a bit differently with the remote stuff.
I think you can still deliver pretty interactive, pretty good workshops online, particularly with teams who know each other. Obviously, it’s more difficult if you’re pulling a new team together, but I think if people know each other before and they just happen to have to work remotely, you can still do away days and facilitation and team events quite successfully online.
Wendy Harris: Somebody mentioned to me a couple of days ago that we all need some form of training in terms of how to handle ourselves online, in like zoom situations; looking out for nuances of facial expression, distractions that you may not normally notice. And I know myself, I’ve done it, I’ve fallen foul of it, but also I’ve noticed it in team sessions that I’ve run as well.
And I think it’s that difference; I think it’s perhaps why I love the phone so much. You don’t necessarily need to see all that body language; it’s all about coming out in the voice, isn’t it, as to what you do?
Andrew Deighton: And, I think when you’re delivering through zoom or something, it’s about trying to remember that when you’re talking, to look at the camera. The temptation is to either look at yourself, or look at the person you’re talking to, which you would naturally do. But, if you’re looking at the person that you’re talking to, then you lose the eye contact, because the camera doesn’t see you.
Wendy Harris: That’s strange, isn’t it though, because that eye contact through the camera means that I can’t keep an eye on what your responses are to what I’m saying?
Andrew Deighton: Exactly. It’s kind of, you have to imagine you’re sort of a TV presenter and just imagine you’re talking, if you’re doing a group session, imagine you’re just talking to one person.
Wendy Harris: It’s almost that, pretend you were on the phone so that you don’t get distracted as well by other things going on, isn’t it?
Andrew Deighton: That’s a good technique actually, yeah.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. So, I know that you mentioned there as well that getting people to perform, whether they know one another or not, online can be difficult. There have got to be some success stories as well. What sort of feedback have you had from the deliveries that you’ve been doing?
Andrew Deighton: It’s been really positive actually so far. Things have progressed quite a lot as well, so I think people like short, sharp sessions. They appreciate that, because we spend so much time, a lot of us, on zoom, and it’s back to back, you know, 12.00pm to 1.00pm, and then 1.00pm to 2.00pm. I think the danger is people just don’t leave themselves gaps.
So, what quite a lot of people suggest is running things from sort of five or ten past the hour to five or ten to the hour, rather than hour-long sessions, and it just gives people that ten-minute break in between to get their thoughts together, go and grab a drink, and so on. So, I think you’ve got to think, and people appreciate that.
If you put the thought into how you’re delivering and what the impact is on people, they really appreciate it, because the vast majority aren’t like that; so, if you’re thinking about it, they appreciate it and they appreciate it more. And then, just again trying to build in interaction, whether that’s just through encouraging people to answer things in the chat box or polls, or the whiteboard feature, things like that.
So, people appreciate that and give good feedback based on that interactivity; it’s not just about putting slides up and a little picture of you in the corner, and then just talking through slides; that’s not what people want now.
Wendy Harris: I hear exactly what you’re saying there, Andrew. I mean, the sessions that I run, I always say, “Right, I’d better introduce myself and tell you what we’re going to be doing today”, and you can see all the microphones go red with a line through, because they’ve put themselves on mute. And I’m like, “So, the first thing I’m going to say to you is, unmute yourselves, because you’re going to be involved. I want you to be asking questions. This is your session; it’s for you, not for me”.
It is interesting how the difference, I think, in expectations that you find that it’s not very refreshing when people put themselves all on mute, is it?
Andrew Deighton: As well, if they don’t have their video. And, I know people have reasons for not putting their video on and that’s fine, but it makes it really difficult then to judge. You know, you’ve got 20 little squares on the screen; you are just trying to judge the reactions, but if there’s no video as well, it’s just really, really difficult.
Wendy Harris: That’s the art of presenting, as well as being engaging, isn’t it? And I think this is why Making Conversations Count, I’m so passionate about it, is because it’s got to be a two-way street. You can give, but you also need to receive, so it’s that speaking and listening that’s really important?
Andrew Deighton: Absolutely, really important, yeah.
Wendy Harris: Everybody that comes on the show, I always ask them to have a think about one conversation that created a turning point, and we’ve been calling it their “pivotal moment”. And, one thing that’s become clear is that a lot of people have more than one. So, Andrew, have you been able to think of one?
Andrew Deighton: Yes. It actually goes back to 2007, so it’s quite an old one.
Wendy Harris: Okay.
Andrew Deighton: It’s when I was working at Rolls Royce. So, I started at Rolls Royce when I was 18 and worked there for 26 years, so I was actually in the marine business. So, I was the Head of Employee Development for the marine business in Rolls Royce.
My boss called me in one day and he said, “We’re setting up a new business unit; would you be interested in being the HR Director for this new business unit?” and I’d sort of got a mix of HR background and a mix of training and development background, so I sort of swapped between the two, and yeah, it was a big promotion for me.
So, I said, “Absolutely, yeah, thank you for asking me”, but it was brilliant; from a career perspective, it was just superb. So, that was all great and then he said, “But, it’s going to be based in Singapore”. So, that kind of put a bit of a different twist on things, because my wife was working; I’d got twin girls at home who were 11 at the time and my son was 5. So, I said, “Yes. I’d better just check at home first before I ‑‑”
Wendy Harris: It’s not just my decision?
Andrew Deighton: Yes. So, that was really quite a fundamental point. So then, I went home and had a chat with Jo, my wife, and my fundamental thing is around opportunity, so we said it was for two years initially; two years just goes like that; let’s do it, let’s go for it.
So, I went back and said yes, and then it came to a bit, I guess, into your arena; sales. So, I had to then sell it to my kids, because the girls had just started senior school, they’d been with the same friends all through school, we’d lived in the same area for all their lives, you know; so, it was going to be a bit of a sales pitch.
So, we went back, and it was very clunky internet in those days and strange beeps and things when you went online and all sorts of stuff, but we pulled up pictures of that part of the world and the beaches and things that we could do and stuff, and started a bit of a sales pitch to the kids really.
I also remember, the thing that sticks in my mind is, when we were showing these pictures, one of my daughters, Emily, she says, “Am I dreaming; is this real?”, so we knew that we’d kind of got them. So, I accepted it, I started working in 2007 from the UK, just sort of going out there now and again, but then Jo and I had to go out on our sort of look-see visit and find a house and find a school and all that.
There came another bit of another sales pitch really, just to convince Jo that it was definitely the right thing to do. I think the thing that swung it when we’d got out there, as soon as we landed, it was kind of early morning. Because of the flight times, you get there about 6.00 am in the morning. So, we were in the hotel swimming pool at 8.00 am in the morning, in the sunshine, in 30 degrees, and she said, “Yeah, I’d probably manage this for two years”!
So, I’d got a convert there. And also, the hotel had a happy hour in the evening in the sort of business lounge, which was on the 30th floor overlooking the city, and it was free canapes and wine; so, that swung it as well, I think. We decided we’d go for it. We actually moved out in March 2008. That was the start of our pivot.
Wendy Harris: It’s exciting, isn’t it? And I think, what you’ve described there as well, even with your wife saying yes to the opportunity from the start and, “Yeah, let’s get the kids on board”, and even then going out to look for the house, it starts to become not just an expectation, but a reality. It’s bridging the, well it was a good idea, but is this real; is this happening; how is it going to affect me; and then it’s all the uncertainty.
But, what a fabulous opportunity to go out there. So, what’s your lasting memory of Singapore?
Andrew Deighton: It’s a mix of probably a couple of things really. It’s the opportunity from a work perspective; it was a proper international role, so the business that I worked in, we had 34 locations across the world, so I was looking after — it was only a small team, but a remote, global team, part of an executive group looking after a 2,000-people business.
So, it was sort of that experience and exposure at that level, and the opportunity to travel for business, which I actually really enjoy flying. Some people hate it, but I really enjoyed the business travel side that was part of it.
But also, particularly, I think the key thing was from a family perspective for me. It opened up, for all of us, such an opportunity to experience things that we would never have experienced. I didn’t know anything about that part of the world at all when we went out there, so we were literally going quite into the unknown.
They call Singapore, “Asia for beginners”, because it’s —
Wendy Harris: It’s really westernised, isn’t it?
Andrew Deighton: Yeah. So, they drive on the left and you don’t need an adaptor for your sockets, and it’s very western and English and English law and so on. It’s the opportunities that open up to travel and experience different countries and cultures. And Singapore itself is just such a mix of cultures.
There are four main cultures in Singapore anyway, but then you bring all these different expat countries and people in as well; it’s a really mix.
Wendy Harris: Pockets of people from home?
Andrew Deighton: Yeah, that whole cultural awareness and customs and getting used to working with different people with a different perspective, and it’s just great. And for the kids, they went to a school that had 42 nationalities in it in a school of 400.
Wendy Harris: Wow!
Andrew Deighton: And, they’ve got friends now all over the world. So, my daughter, she was due to be a bridesmaid for a friend in Australia this year, but obviously that’s not happened.
Wendy Harris: Oh, wow.
Andrew Deighton: She went travelling after uni and met five Japanese friends who she’d not seen for five years, and her and her boyfriend, they took them round Tokyo as tour guides, you know. She hadn’t seen them for five years, but they’d made these friends from all over the world, and just their understanding, I think. The understanding that they’ve got of different cultures is great.
Wendy Harris: So, you’ve got all of you on the same page, because it’s all unknown to everybody, so you’re all learning together?
Andrew Deighton: As we go, yeah, absolutely.
Wendy Harris: Which, as a family unit, can either make or break you, can’t it, if you’re not careful, let’s face it? So, fabulous that they were on board, that they embraced it, and look at the knock-on effect that it’s had in their lives as well, being young adults and young children coming through; amazing.
Andrew Deighton: It was tough for them at first, because they were leaving their friends, obviously, particularly for the girls, because they’d got their real roots; so, it was very hard for them, to be fair, to take out. And, I think social media sometimes is a bit double-edged, because it was very easy to stay in touch, which was great for us, keeping in touch with our parents, but it was easy for them to keep in touch with their friends. So sometimes, obviously, missing them and stuff, but then we did probably so much more than we ever would have done here, as a family, because we were in a rented house.
We didn’t have the usual, we’ve got to do decorating, and all this sort of stuff in the house, you know. So we did, every weekend, we tried to go somewhere, you know, just on the island, to visit different things and see different things and go to museums and go out to the pool and go to the park and, you know, probably brought us a lot closer together as a family than we would have.
Wendy Harris: So, from that conversation of, “Can you take on this new role?” and you go, “Yeah”, to, “Can you go to Singapore?” “Argh!”, it really did have a positive impact, not just on you but on your family and your life?
Andrew Deighton: And then, we had to come back. And so, the girls actually were easy to bring back to the UK. Tom, my son, it was really tough for him coming back, because he’d really forgotten the UK, because he’d done basically half his life by then out there, and all his friends were in Singapore really.
Wendy Harris: The opposite adjustment.
Andrew Deighton: Yeah, so he was really easy to take out, but it was really hard for him to come back; so it was really the flipside. And then, you’re integrating back into the UK.
Wendy Harris: And, I bet he’s kept in touch with lots of people as well, hasn’t he?
Andrew Deighton: Yeah, absolutely. Again, South Africa, he’s got friends there and Spain and all over the place. Both the girls have travelled since and Tom wants to work overseas when he can as well, so it’s really opened up all of us, all of our minds. And, we ended up staying four and a half years; we went for two. If we hadn’t taken that opportunity, we would never have had all that.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, because it does make you think, “Well, where would I be now if I hadn’t have done that, and where would my family then be if I hadn’t have done all that, now?” It is that kind of, “What if…?” moment, isn’t it. And just touching on what you were doing, you know, having a remote team in 34 locations; you’ve been handling remote working for a very long time?
Andrew Deighton: Yeah. Until recently, you kind of take it for granted or forget it actually. When I was out there, obviously my working day started at sort of 8.00 am, you know, normal day, but it was really quiet, because I was based out in Asia. And then, about lunchtime, Norway, Finland, Sweden woke up, lunchtime Singapore time; and then, an hour after that, the UK woke up; and then, five hours after that, America woke up.
So, it was very long days, because you’d be doing calls at 10.00 pm at night at home because of the time zones. But, you are working properly remotely across lots of time zones, and across lots of different communities as well.
Wendy Harris: A fabulous opportunity and a fabulous story. Thank you so much for sharing that with us, Andrew; I think it’s incredible. Anybody wanting to know anything about Singapore, obviously you must be the new tour guide?
Andrew Deighton: We’ve been back twice actually.
Wendy Harris: Have you?
Andrew Deighton: Yeah, we went once for my big 50 birthday. Jo and I went just to sort of revisit places and see how things have changed; and then, we went last year with Tom for him to have a chance to see what he remembered. So, who knows when we’ll get back?
Wendy Harris: Wow, who knows? Maybe you’ll get some invitations?
Andrew Deighton: That would be nice.
Wendy Harris: That would be nice, wouldn’t it?
Andrew Deighton: To be paid to go back would be ideal.
Wendy Harris: We’re not exclusive to Singapore!
Andrew Deighton: No, anywhere will do!
Wendy Harris: I’ll carry Andrew’s bag! But, Andrew, thank you so much. If people want to pick up the conversation with you, where can they find you?
Andrew Deighton: Email me. My email address is Andrew@awddevelopmentsolutions.com, or just connect with me on LinkedIn; look for Andrew Deighton.
Wendy Harris: Well, that’s great. Thank you so much for sharing again. Don’t forget to send us your comments; we love to read them and do reply. So, share this with your friends and family and don’t forget to subscribe. The link you need is makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, bye bye.
Making conversations about marketing for introverts count!
Let us introduce you to Jenny Procter, a marketing consultant and self-proclaimed introvert. Jenny writes PR and communications for B2B clients and has her own podcast show, and she discusses issues around running her own business as an entrepreneur.
Jenny says she much prefers to be host than guest but, in this episode, Jenny shares her love for conversation and how powerful it can be with connecting to your audience.
In Jenny’s pivotal moment we hear an age-old dilemma – Should I? Should she what…?!
Listen and connect with Jenny here:
https://bondfieldmarketing.co.uk/category/podcast/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennyprocter/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 4
November 11th 2020
Wendy Harris & Jenny Procter, Bondfield Marketing
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:29: Wendy's and Jenny's shared values
00:02:27: The importance of conversation in Jenny's work
00:03:36: Conversational communications
00:05:28: Jenny's pivotal moment
00:08:48: Working for yourself - the initial challenges
00:10:34: A difficult year!
00:13:01: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to another episode of Making Conversations Count. Today, I have the lovely Jenny Procter with me.
Jenny Procter: Hello, Wendy, how are you?
Wendy Harris: I'm fine thank you. Tell us a little bit about who you are and how we first met?
Jenny Procter: Well, I am a marketing consultant. I run Bondfield Marketing and I've done that for about eight years; and we met, I think, initially through a conversation on LinkedIn. So, I was building my business; I was thinking I really need to be getting out to more networking events; I'd spent a period kind of juggling home and family; and, I was ready to move my business on a little bit.
There was an event going on quite close to me and I thought, I don't know anybody who's going to that event, and I think you'd said you were going to the same event; and it turned out, didn't it, that we lived about two minutes' walk from each other? So, you were doing your thing in your end of the village and I was doing my thing and my end of the village, and we arranged to go to the event together. And, I think you picked me up; I was stood on the street corner, which is a little dodgier than it sounds!
Wendy Harris: Yes! How bizarre that there was a fellow marketeer of sorts literally two minutes' walk from me and that because of the safety of the village that we lived in, that we could say, "Oh, I'll just meet you on the corner and I'll be in my little black car; if I beep the horn to you, you'll know it's me!"
Jenny Procter: And you did, and we went from there. And, in about the 10/15 minutes it took us to get to the event, I think we realised that we were going to get on, didn't we?
Wendy Harris: Absolutely. And, it's just those first impressions, isn't it, that always count and they stay with you? To think that I would be talking to you about picking you up on a street corner on a podcast; if we'd have said that two years ago, we would have thought we were both completely bonkers.
That conversation, then going to the networking, we came away with fairly similar opinions on how that network was run and I don't think either of us really returned. But, that sort of cemented the values that we shared?
Jenny Procter: Yes. We're quite different; we have different kind of complementary skills, don't we, and personality-wise, I think we're quite different, but we do both like to achieve results for our clients, we both like to work with interesting clients, so we do complement each other very well.
And, I think you're right; I think we came away from that event thinking that wasn't necessarily the best place for us. But, we found other networking events, other forums, where we kind of achieved quite a lot more and made some good connections together, I think, haven't we?
Wendy Harris: Definitely. And of course, when it comes to making conversations count, having those shared values really does ripple through into everything that you do, doesn't it? So, in terms of your sort of daily role as a marketeer and strategist, how important are conversations and communication for what you do?
Jenny Procter: I mean, it's absolutely the heart of everything, isn't it? It's the business relationships that you build and it's the work that you do together. I also think it's very important to get to know your client and your associates, your colleagues, on a personal level as well; and, I think those clients that I work with the best are those that I can have those conversations about weekends and families and holidays.
And those, over the years, where I've still got to build a relationship are those who don't seem to have time for that, I'm not going to call it "small talk", because I think those are important conversations too. So, I think getting to know your client and then getting to know their business, you can only do that by engaging with them in conversation.
I always try to create marketing strategies that fit a business, rather than going with a prescribed solution, so I ask lots of questions and I listen intently to the answers, and I think that's a big part of making conversations that count.
Wendy Harris: I think, what I love about communication that I see that you produce, it's very conversational, even if that's like a social media post, or content articles, email templates, any of those things. Although it is with a business focus, it is conversational to the person that's going to be receiving it and reading it; so, it's like you're having a conversation off the page?
Jenny Procter: Yeah, and you can see that in the results actually. Sometimes you receive emails, or you see social media posts, and they're very kind of informal and chatty and you think, hmm, is that like me? But actually, when I've tried both ways, you know, I have some very corporate clients and sometimes it's appropriate to find a very corporate voice.
But, when you try the corporate voice versus the conversational, the conversational is always the one that does better, you know. People open more emails or they click through on the social media posts, or whatever. So, it's not just a good way to do business; it's the way to do business that gets the results, I think. And you can see that, however you evaluate the different forms of communication.
Wendy Harris: Just taking somebody's observation over a situation and being able to chat about that, when it is a one-way street in written communication, is an art in itself, isn't it?
Jenny Procter: Yes, but people buy from people, don't they, and I say this a lot, all the time, to different clients. Even if it's a very formal business or a very corporate business, people are still buying from people. We like to connect with people, so I think that needs to come through in your communication.
Wendy Harris: And, I think you do that very effectively, Jenny.
Jenny Procter: Oh, thanks.
Wendy Harris: And, you can pay me later, but I'm not just saying that!
Jenny Procter: Yeah, good to hear!
Wendy Harris: Really appreciate you coming in and being my guest on this podcast. I've asked every guest to think of one conversation that was a pivotal moment in their life that created a turning point in some way, shape or form. So, I'm going to come to that now, Jenny, and ask you to tell me all about that pivotal moment?
Jenny Procter: It was a really interesting one to think about when you asked me to come on the podcast, because so many conversations, so many of the important conversations in life are the personal ones, aren't they? They're about relationships, or our children or our families, and I want to talk about work a little bit more. And, it took me right back to 2002, actually, a long way back.
I was 29 and I was working as a communications manager in an organisation in the gas industry, and I'd spent my twenties in in-house roles; I'd worked organising events; I'd worked for the rail industry in a press officer role; but I had a kind of hankering to work for myself. I don't know where that came from, because nobody in my family is an entrepreneur; nobody in my family works in sales; they're all kind of public sector, straight, proper jobs, if you like.
But, I was chatting to the printer that I used in that job, who in herself was a very interesting lady. She'd been a solicitor and had become a printer, even if that's not an obvious career move in anybody's book, and I'd not done a lot with print in jobs prior to that. So, I did my usual thing, which was to ask lots of questions and learn what I needed to know to be good at that part of my job. But, we got on very well and I remember saying to her, "I'm quite interested in working for myself".
She ran her own business, so she was a good person to talk to. And, I had a feeling that the best way to do that was to work in an agency, to kind of go and work in another business, to work for somebody else, and to learn how to run my own business. And the conversation that stuck out from that, and she kind of looked at me, I mean kindly, you know; she didn't look at me like I'd lost my mind, and said, "Actually, Jenny, the way to learn about working for yourself is to work for yourself",
I was like, "Oh, yes", and the penny dropped! And, it took a little while from there, and it was about another 8-12 months before I actually handed in my resignation, but that conversation meant I handed in my resignation from a full-time, safe, paid job to go and work for myself which, I guess you take the risks at that age, 29, 30, when you've not got children, particularly.
So, I took the leap and I spent the next four or five years working for myself because somebody had said, at the right moment, they'd given me the confidence and given me the permission almost, to go off and to set up the business, and that was tremendously helpful later on when I was back in a corporate job, which I really didn't enjoy and I was struggling with the whole work-life balance, you know, small child, trying to do a full-time job. And, because I had worked for myself before, I knew I could do it again.
So, that initial conversation with Alice not only gave me the confidence to work for myself at that point, but it gave me that skill to come back to later on in my career when I properly needed that kind of more flexible working arrangement. So, yeah, I don't know if Alice knows that she was quite that instrumental in making a big life decision, but it took my career in a whole different way and I've spent at least half my career now working for myself, as opposed to working for somebody else, which suits me very nicely.
Wendy Harris: Well, thank you, Alice, for those words of wisdom, really, isn't it?
Jenny Procter: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Because, when you think, the only way that you can find out if you can work for yourself is to work for yourself, not only are you working for yourself, but on yourself, because you're finding out about yourself. Had you have gone and worked for an agency to try and copy, rinse, repeat, you could have actually been taking bad habits that were somebody else's, into somebody new and wonderful and taint that?
Jenny Procter: And, I think the other point that she made, though, was there was no way you could go and work for an agency and then leave with all those contacts; that's not allowed in business; that's not good business practice. So, the only way you're going to build something for yourself is to actually, genuinely go away and build it.
And, you've worked for yourself a long time, Wendy; those first few days, weeks, months, years sometimes, when you are building something like that for yourself, are really quite challenging and scary and you wonder where the work is going to come from. But, yeah, it was the making of me in many ways, to be able to build a career that suits you and is flexible and that you can focus on the things that you really enjoy doing; it's been a hugely beneficial thing. So, yeah, it was an interesting one.
But, there are other conversations we have, as business owners, which you don't always realise are going to be so significant. Sometimes the important ones are the casual conversations you have, the person you sit next to at an event, which I did about 12 months after that. Somebody I spoke to and we had a conversation about what she did in her work and what I did in my work; and that particular lady has been a client, on and off, for about the last 15 years.
So sometimes, the significant conversations are those very quiet ones that you don't always realise how they're going to develop. So, yeah, I think conversation is a fascinating subject for a podcast, actually, Wendy!
Wendy Harris: Oh, thank you. It was something that struck me that, as you touched on there, I've been working for myself for 15 years and it's not my first business; this is my third business. So, it's important to know that sometimes those decisions that you make don't all work out, but the essence of everything that you learn will stand you in good stead for later on.
And, even though I've been working for myself for 15 years, 2008 saw the recession and the crisis in the financial markets that meant that everything in the business changed. It changed again a few years ago. We've now had a pandemic to contend with. There are constant challenges to running your own business, and there are always lessons to learn, aren't there? It's not all rosy, it's not overnight success, and building a business does mean sometimes that you have to knock a wall down and make an extension?
Jenny Procter: Yes, nice analogy! Yes, and I think you're right; whether it succeeds or whether it fails, that's quite a harsh word, but however your business goes, you always learn something. I think it makes you more resilient, doesn't it, and I have to say, this year particularly, I am so grateful for all those years I've experienced, because I think it's been a challenging year to be running your own business, whatever the business is.
I feel I've come out of it stronger, because I've had more years to build that resilience. I know what works, I know what doesn't work. I've been in a position before where I've faced quite challenging situations in the business, and I know you have too, so it's been a difficult year. But, all that experience that we've both gained over the years has been tremendously helpful.
Wendy Harris: Yes. And, by having a situation like we experienced back in March, where every single industry and business was affected on every level, it's been like a life or death experience, I think.
Jenny Procter: Oh, that's quite deep; go on, explain that?
Wendy Harris: I kind of think that had this have not happened, would we have still been trundling, doing the same thing that we were doing in January, February and March; and for me, personally, quite possibly. But, what it's allowed me to do is push past those things that have been in my way before, which was usually time to do things, and say, "No, it's now or never. I'm going to do whatever my aspirations were".
And if that means changing things and following things and getting excited about new things and learning new things; I mean, goodness me, podcasting is no easy feat, there's lots to learn! But, that's great, we should embrace those things. Without it happening, I wouldn't be where I am now, and I think that's the same for a lot of people.
Jenny Procter: Yeah, I think it's forced all of us to look at our businesses and to see what's working, what's not working, and in some cases to juggle that with teaching our small children; so, it's been a character-building kind of a year, hasn't it?!
Wendy Harris: I think we've had to send that bucket quite deep into the well. We've all surprised ourselves with just how that water just keeps giving, doesn't it; we can sustain.
Jenny Procter: And particularly with both of us working in marketing, I think, working with clients, watching clients' businesses changing and watching marketing techniques and tactics, both of us, I think, have had to adapt how we do things with clients, or adapt our advice to clients, because the working environment's changed so much?
Wendy Harris: Yeah.
Jenny Procter: So, I think we maybe deserve a drink when we get to the end of the year, Wendy; I'll let you stand me a drink, thanks!
Wendy Harris: First round's on my, definitely! Jenny, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you as my guest today. I do hope it's been useful for our listeners.
Jenny Procter: Thank you, Wendy.
Wendy Harris: Don't forget to send me all your comments, share with your friends and stay subscribed so you don't miss the next episode. Thank you for listening to Making Conversations Count.
Making Conversations about Homelessness Count!
In our first episode we speak to Paula Senior from the YMCA. Paula is a fund-raising officer and the event that raise the most is the annual Sleepout which raises much needed funds for the night shelter.
Paula shares how the Covid-19 pandemic has stretched them to the limits and how the have risen above the challenges faced by the homeless. Please support the conversations around homelessness as this has affected your host Wendy Harris in her past.
You will be moved by Paula’s pivotal moment - All about a boy and the conversations that followed.
To follow and support the YMCA in raising awareness please follow these links:
https://twitter.com/YMCA_Burton
https://www.facebook.com/burtonymca
https://www.linkedin.com/company/burton-upon-trent-and-district-ymca
https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulasenior/
TRANSCRIPT BELOW -
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:43: Covid-19 and 2020
00:04:27: History of the YMCA
00:06:25: Having a conversation
00:08:47: Sleep Out
00:11:47: Sleep Out 2019 Target
00:12:06: Winter Night Shelter
00:13:05: Join Wendy, and help out
00:14:50: Paula's Pivotal Moment
00:22:21: Wendy's Story
00:23:12: Where do you go to the toilet?
00:26:00: Reaching out to the YMCA
00:26:49: Final thoughts
Interview Transcription
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count. Our podcast where we share inspirational stories from business leaders, and they tell us all about their pivotal moment. Today, I am really excited. I've got Paula Senior from the YMCA joining us, to share her pivotal moment. Hello, Paula.
Paula Senior: Hi, Wendy. Thank you very much for inviting me on here.
Wendy Harris: Now, tell everybody about the YMCA and how we first met.
Paula Senior: I worked for YMCA in Burton. We are an independent charity based in Burton‑on‑Trent, which covers homelessness, people at risk of homelessness, food bank, mediation. A whole breadth of services. I do fundraising, for YMCA Burton. I am passionate about the course.
Wendy you I met about three years ago, I think now. We started talking, met each other a few times. Then we've had some really good conversations haven't we, about your work, what you do, what I do and life really.
Wendy Harris: Yes, a shout out to the LoveBiz and the lovely Sue Crooks that started that Ladies Network. Certainly, I'd heard of the YMCA, but I really had no idea about the work that the YMCA does in terms of homelessness. As you know, Paula, I've shared my story quite publicly. It is 21 years ago now that I was made homeless with a six-year-old round my legs and I was pregnant at the time. So, had I have known about the YMCA then, things could have been different, which is why I'm happy to support the YMCA now. I am guessing that this year has been an incredible and challenging time for you at the YMCA.
Paula Senior: Yes, absolutely. I mean it's a very difficult time for lots of people, hasn't it? The year that Covid came and changed everything. Obviously as a charity supporting some of the most vulnerable people in the community it has been particularly challenging. Not just on the basis of keeping everybody safe. There are 71 people that live with us, which is a considerable number of people. Age range from 18 to 64, and that is men and women, all vulnerable for a number of reasons. Some with some very complex needs, so being in lockdown for them is very difficult to understand and to cope with. Without all the other complex things going on in life. You know, we've all felt that haven't we, with lockdown? It's been particularly challenging at times.
For business as well, but from a charity point of view, aside from the wellbeing side and keeping everybody safe, we've had a massive massive drop in income because we had ten events cancelled, which obviously brings income into the charity. Food bank donations dried up overnight, literally. Then we rely completely on the support of our community, so churches. Groups like LoveBiz, networking groups who have always supported us with food bank collections. Obviously, could not meet anymore and therefore weren't able to have a collection and donate food. So, the flip side of that is the demand for the food parcels went completely through the roof, because children were off school and families trying to feed children, navigating furlough, navigating and worrying about job losses; just surviving.
Having children at home, some of those that would have had meals provided in school. There was a massive impact on families. So, demand through the roof and supplies completely dropped. We have struggled. It has been challenging, yes, definitely.
Wendy Harris: Yes, looking after people physically by giving them somewhere safe to stay. You are looking after them by feeding them so nourishing them, but you are also having to take care of their mental wellbeing as well, aren't you?
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: Because the emotional and financial strain that perhaps losing a job and a lot of this -- you can't lay blame anywhere, can you?
Paula Senior: No, no.
Wendy Harris: It's really difficult because you've got to just take what's happening and go with it, haven't you?
Paula Senior: Yes, and I think also you will understand this as well, Wendy, like most of us do. When people are struggling, when there's change anyway, without it being such a massive change that they may lose their job, they're home-schooling. Someone they knew is poorly with Covid or just poorly anyway that's navigating life. All these things compound to people's wellbeing and mental health, don't they?
Wendy Harris: Yes, because it's not just about one person neither, it can be about a family and their extended family.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: It is where does it stop? It's such a complicated situation to be in. This is why I invited you on the show. I wanted the YMCA as a UK-wide charity. Is it global, Paula?
Paula Senior: It is global. In the UK specifically are 114 YMCAs.
Wendy Harris: Wow.
Paula Senior: That is just in the UK. We are all a separate charity in our right, we are all independent and we all offer a different level of service or provision. So, it is 176 years today the global movement of YMCA.
Wendy Harris: We're getting a history lesson as well now.
Paula Senior: When that was set up by a man called George Williams in London in 1844, he had gone to London because his family had deemed he may get into the wrong crowd, if you like. So, it was the Industrial Revolution, probably the wrong crowd means perhaps going to see girls or hitting up with friends for beers. Nothing substantial like we might deem today.
He went to London as a young Christian man and realised that there wasn't anywhere for people to meet, to be able to meet safely and talk or just to develop friendships and that's how the YMCA formed originally. So, 176 years on, there are 114 separate YMCA's now. Some YMCAs don't offer any housing, but they do a lot of youth work, so around 18 to 25 years old is their real focus. Helping them to navigate, I guess, and give them support that they absolutely need to have a good future.
Wendy Harris: Yes, transition isn't it, into adult life.
Paula Senior: It is.
Wendy Harris: That parents sort of say, "Go learn your own lessons", to some extent.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: Some say, "I'm going to do it on my own", but who would have thought that way back then in the Industrial Revolution that George Williams said, "We've got nowhere that we can have a proper conversation that counts".
Paula Senior: Absolutely, yes, that's true Wendy, yes.
Wendy Harris: Yes, a man after my own values then as well. Who'd have thought we'd have found that out today.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I'm guessing that you must have difficult conversations with individuals as well as some really rewarding conversations, because it is not just the negative impact of being homeless or being out of a job. The work that the YMCA does, really does transform lives and you've got some real good success stories, haven't you?
Paula Senior: Yes, totally. You're absolutely right. It's not all negative. It may feel like that when someone comes to us for help, whatever that help is. Whether it's a food parcel, or a family that are navigating difficult courses with relationships at home. We work around homelessness, support and prevention really. So, a family where there is young people perhaps in their teens, 14, 15 struggling at home, for whatever reason. The family's in conflict.
We offer a mediation service which again is a free service to anybody to access. I think at any one time there's about 12 families open to receiving that support. That is all around conversation. So, the mediator will say he holds the safe space, for a conversation to be held respectfully and openly. Because where there's conflict, that can't happen. It becomes a blame game and people aren't listening and don't want to hear; but in the space that he holds and asks the questions so that people can listen and converse through conversation clearly. That's part of his role.
Wendy Harris: It facilitates the change in behaviour, in attitude in mindset, in approach.
Paula Senior: It does.
Wendy Harris: To everything doesn't it? Yes.
Paula Senior: Part of that service usually, what generally happens is that a mediator would meet both parties so the young person and their parent or the parents or sometimes it's extended family members if the young person doesn't live with parents. So, he will meet them both separately to talk to them about what they want to achieve. What their aim is as part of the mediation. Then they meet usually somewhere independent because that also takes away the emotion.
Now, of course, Covid's changed that as well. So, he cannot go into their home and they can't come into our site. So, those conversations are still taking place. They are taking place on Zoom, like many conversations now, because it is still critical that those conversations take place.
Wendy Harris: Keep that communication open is really important.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I know that you have different events that you do throughout the year by going to networking and encouraging people to bring food for the food banks and I know that you have done raffles as well. We have all brought gifts and everybody wants the Prosecco.
Last year I was involved for the very first time in one of your events, because some of the ladies said, "Let's do the Sleep Out", and you'd launched the sleep out in a graveyard. I went, "I'm only doing it if we're going to go extreme". It was a real-life changing night. It really brought home a lot of things. I think a couple of weeks ago I shared the video of the morning after I've not slept. It's still getting views. I think it's really important that it's carrying on again this year, but there's a difference to it this year because Covid has had to allow for some changes. So, Paula, tell us. How can we get involved in Sleep Out which is tomorrow?
Paula Senior: Anybody can take part in Sleep Out. It's an event we've been running for many years. It's our twelfth year this year, Wendy, and it is a key part of what we do. The main thing is it raises awareness of homelessness, which is absolutely key and the services we offer but also it raises much needed funds for our services to continue.
So, yes, flipped on the side. This year we're going to a whole different level and it's going to be a virtual event tomorrow. So, we're asking people to take part. Still give up your bed for one night only. We're asking people to sleep in their garden, they can sleep on their kitchen floor, sleep in their workplace maybe or their drive or their courtyard, whatever. Or even to sofa surf.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Paula Senior: Because there are many, many hidden homeless people that sofa surf night after night after night. That have no fixed address, that have no secure home to go back to and don’t know sometimes from one night to the next where to go.
So, instead of all coming together and sleeping in the graveyard like you took part last year, or at Pirelli Stadium, we're asking you to still do that. Give up your bed for one night but do it virtually. But we'll still be connected Wendy. We're still going to have those conversations that we had last year with everybody about why we do our work, why it's important, why people are helping us. The case studies for the success stories for those that have asked for help and worked with us to change their lives, because it is life changing. It absolutely is, so, yes. Tomorrow 6th November and we're live streaming through the night so that we've got people talking. We've got a busker playing called Chris Baldwin. He's a local musician, brilliant guy. He would be with us normally, so he's just going to be playing some tunes as well.
Wendy Harris: Keep spirits up, yes.
Paula Senior: Yes, we still need to be connected and that is really important to us, because we couldn’t do what we do without everybody's help.
Wendy Harris: Absolutely. I know last year you set a target and you reached it. What was the target last year? What did you raise?
Paula Senior: Okay, so last year the target was £50,000 to get from the event. We raised £50,259, which is an incredible amount of money.
Wendy Harris: I know a big chunk of that goes towards the night shelter, doesn't it, which is open over Winter for people to just come in from the cold.
Paula Senior: Yes, in the last couple of years we've operated what they called the Winter Night Shelter, which opens on 1 December and runs till 1 April. It's the harshest nights of the Winter really, where people just come and spend the night. Safe place to stay, warm, hot food.
What we have been doing the last 12 months, has been working really really hard around prevention and working with the rough sleepers. To try and get them housed and to try and get them some stability to be in a place to live independently. To live independently, safely, without risk of losing their home. So, we've done a lot of work with people that were sleeping rough. Also, the night shelter so everybody that came to the night shelter we worked very closely with last year.
When Covid struck and we went into lockdown, we managed to get 18 rough sleepers temporarily housed overnight, within 24 hours.
Wendy Harris: That's going to be important job for you to get involved with this year, because of course Winter's fast approaching isn’t it, so I would like to let all our listeners know that me and my daughter -- my daughter wanted to come to the graveyard last year but she was too young. She's 12 this year.
Paula Senior: Yes, that's right.
Wendy Harris: She made me promise that we did it together this year. We've basically said we're going to set up camp in the office, which is the log cabin in the garden. It'll be freezing.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: And she's asked for her school to help promote with the fundraising for that. I am sure she is going to be excited to take part with everybody else on the live streaming and to hear the busking. So, we'll share the details of how you can help. If you feel that you can put your hand in your pocket for the cost of a Costa coffee, other brands are available. Everything helps.
Paula Senior: Sometimes people think that they have to donate a large amount of money or they have to do something really significant. Actually, for example, for somebody who has no birth certificate or no ID, because it's been lost or stolen or whatever. It's £12 to replace that. They can't access any services until they have some ID. So sometimes the first point of call to help a rough sleeper is to get a replacement birth certificate. They have no money.
Wendy Harris: Yes, absolutely.
Paula Senior: So, we're paying for the £12. So, sometimes just the cost of probably a couple of days lunch that people might have paid ordinarily, or sandwiches for the week or a couple of coffees in the week will make a difference to someone's life, definitely.
Wendy Harris: Well, if we're going to get kicked out the pubs at 10.00pm that extra pint.
Paula Senior: A couple of pints, yes.
Wendy Harris: Just throw it the YMCA's way. I know it will make such a huge difference to what we do.
Paula Senior: It does, Wendy.
Wendy Harris: Going back to how we met and our love of conversation, I'm guessing that there must be a pivotal moment that changed your view on life that had an impact on what you're doing now, perhaps. Paula, share with us what your pivotal moment is, please?
Paula Senior: Just a little bit of background. I used to be a safeguarding officer in an education setting. So, we are going back now probably six years or so, and I was supporting a young man who was thrown out of his parents' home on his 16th birthday. Really nice young lad, a few issues going on in his life, but a really good lad.
I had a conversation with him probably most days that he attended and really got to know him. He was actually in quite an abusive relationship, but he was staying with a partner's family and not having a great time. So, I'd support him regularly. I helped him to get some finances to get things together. He had nothing, just living with this family. So, I met him in September, fast forward to November I hadn't seen him for a couple of days, and I'd been ringing him, leaving him messages. Wouldn’t answer and he turned up at my door. It was 12 o'clock, it was a Friday, and it was the first Friday of November. He came and he looked absolutely dreadful. "Do you want someone to go and get you a drink? Have you eaten?" He wouldn't sit down; he was very edgy. He was kind of pacing round my office and he said, "I've come to say goodbye, I've tried to kill myself. I can't go on, my parents don't love me, I just can't go on with life. I'm failing at everything".
So, I did manage to get him to sit down for a minute. He was very very edgy and when you're talking to somebody who's reached this point, it's often difficult to converse anyway. He showed me what he'd done to himself the night before. He'd tried to cut his wrists, it's the most awful thing I've ever seen. I said, "Right, I'll go and get you a drink, just sit and wait". Well, he said, "No, I've come to say goodbye. I want to say thank you because you've actually listened to me. You have listened to me every time I've come in moaning, crying, telling you how I feel, and you've not judged me. You've just listened. Give me some advice, what to do etc, etc. So, I've come to say thank you". I said, "Just wait, just wait", I was trying to process, "What am I going to do. I need to keep here because I don't want him to leave the building. I can't obviously force him". I said, "I'll go and get you a drink", "No, no, no, I'm going", and with that he was gone.
Stormed out of the office, left the building and I had to obviously follow all the processes and the protocol. I had to ring the police, I had to submit his photo. He had no relationship with parents at that point. Then if I'm absolutely honest, I broke my heart because it was a young 16-year-old lad who needed just someone to give him some stability, to listen and help him through life. There's only so much I can do as the safeguarding officer. So, he left the building and by coincidence, that was the night I was doing my first Sleep Out. I didn't work for YMCA.
Wendy Harris: I was going to say, it has to be the anniversary tomorrow then.
Paula Senior: Yes, I had never done sleep out before, I was doing it that year with some team friends. Off he went. I also rang the YMCA, because I'd started to develop a relationship with them through my safeguarding leads to get them to come in and do some drop-in sessions. So, young people can go and have a chat, and break down some barriers about you know what we do and the help that's available.
I had a call about 4.30pm that afternoon to say they'd picked him up. The police had found him outside his parents' address. He had put a note through the door to say goodbye to them too. They'd picked him up, they'd taken him to hospital, and he'd had the help that he needed on that time. He went back home to live, actually, for a period of about three weeks, but in that time, I'd also made contact with the YMCA again, to see if he could be housed at that point. If something should break down. Now, he did move in with the YMCA, three weeks after.
He carried on with his studies. He did come and see me every time he was in college. He came in every time he attended, and he got through his qualifications and did brilliantly. That was a real moment, that conversation that we had although to me it felt like it could be his last day and to him, in his mind, it was. It wasn't but I listened to him and I was listening not to just respond but to listen to what his needs were. What were his needs in that conversation? His needs were help, support, stability and that conversation allowed me to understand that and to find that for him, I guess. Support him to access that service.
I didn't work for the YMCA at that point and never thought I would if I am honest. So, then fast forward a little bit, I left my job, took redundancy. Via a chance conversation the day before I left I was invited to the YMCA by the mediator, who had been working with me to say, "Come and have a cup of tea, and see what we do". I thought I knew everything about what they did, obviously, but I didn't. I had a cup of tea and he said some, "I just have a feeling we will meet again at some point". Fast forward six months and I start work there through a chance opportunity and I absolutely love what we do.
I believe in what we do, and I believe in the life-changing opportunities that we can give to people because I've seen it. I've seen it first-hand, absolutely. I see it all the time, I see the people that come in. That feel they have nothing and leave six months later with the world at their feet. With hope, that's what we offer, hope.
Wendy Harris: Yes.
Paula Senior: Through conversation and through support.
Wendy Harris: You've given me goosebumps, Paula.
Paula Senior: It was a very difficult conversation.
Wendy Harris: It's very clear that he'd identified somebody that would understand the subtext of what he was trying to say, because at 16 that maturity of conversation hasn't developed yet, has it?
Paula Senior: No, that is true, Wendy, yes.
Wendy Harris: There is lots of emotion. By listening to him, you knew what steps to take. Even though he'd had gone home, you were already making the next steps available to him.
Paula Senior: Yes, totally.
Wendy Harris: Before he even knew that that was what was going to happen.
Paula Senior: Yes, absolutely. I saw him, actually, not so long ago. He was around and about, and he's got a little family of his own now. I felt a bit like a proud mum really.
Wendy Harris: Yes, I mean that is testament to your actions and being able to react and to then have the conversation with the right people to help him as well.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I love that a chance conversation with the mediator was sowing a seed in your mind.
Paula Senior: I know, we did talk about that actually when we meet up. He says, "Do you remember when you came?" "Yes, I remember." I never dreamt I would work there. Why would I? I would never dream that I would be working there.
Wendy Harris: Now, you are there. You have been there how long?
Paula Senior: Four and a half years now.
Wendy Harris: Four and a half years.
Paula Senior: Yes. It feels like forever, I've been there forever.
Wendy Harris: I bet it still feels like you're learning every day.
Paula Senior: Always. Always, because everybody that we meet has a different story to tell. I couldn’t even begin to tell you all of the reasons why people need help. There's many. We're all individuals aren't we, at the end of day.
Wendy Harris: Yes, yes.
Paula Senior: So, we all have our own reasons. The people that come to us for housing, again no two people are the same, they've all had different circumstances. I think the message for everybody is it could happen to any one of us.
Wendy Harris: At any time. As I say I was pregnant, at the time, I'd put my first marriage behind me. Left some gap, met somebody that I thought was my next forever and overnight from going to bed to waking up I was told to leave. In no uncertain terms.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: My car was packed, "You can collect your stuff later", and that was it. It was like, "What do you do? You're in a daze". All you can do is get in the car, and go because I'd got my daughter, she was six.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I was just fortunate that I had somewhere to surf.
Paula Senior: Yes, but not everybody has that.
Wendy Harris: Yes, not everybody does. So, I came close. So, I say technically I was homeless, and I was, to all intents and purposes I had no fixed abode.
Paula Senior: Definitely.
Wendy Harris: But I was very fortunate that I had support and I just think of all those people that don't. There was one of our mutual friends that said being a woman in the Winter, where do you go to the toilet?
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: It is the most basic of things that sleeping out for one night brings home to you.
Paula Senior: It does. I think Wendy, you will probably agree. What I took away from that Sleep Out that first night when I was sitting at 2.00am in the morning, wide awake because I was freezing cold, even though I was layered up. Just listening to the sounds around me, I was very very safe because I was in a stadium with lots of people, but I felt quite vulnerable and I would be terrible. I'd be frightened to death sleeping rough.
Wendy Harris: The compounding idea of sleeping rough was that we were sat in the church drinking tea at 4.00am because you once get up and need to go to the toilet, and you've got a toilet to go to, the idea of actually going back to sleep is quite hard.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: So, you sleep a little on and off, but if you add that up, a weeks' worth of sleeping like that. I was battered after one night.
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: A week and what that does to your capacity to think clearly, I can't imagine.
Paula Senior: Absolutely.
Wendy Harris: Make that a month, make that a Winter, make that years of continual homelessness and you are then a shadow of your former self.
Paula Senior: Feeling very disconnected from life, really.
Wendy Harris: Yes, mental health is one of my pet passions. I will do anything to support that and anybody and help anybody, so we'd better get an early night tonight, Paula.
Paula Senior: Yes, make sure you've got the sleeping bag.
Wendy Harris: We're going to need it, yes.
Paula Senior: Yes. I am sleeping on my kitchen floor, I am. That's my plan for tomorrow.
Wendy Harris: Are you?
Paula Senior: Yes.
Wendy Harris: I wish you luck and I look forward to joining you on the livestream with Alice and everybody else that's joining. We'll stick the links to the YMCA fundraising page. I know it's on Virgin Money, I think?
Paula Senior: Virgin Monday Giving that's right, yes.
Wendy Harris: I know my personal page is the WAG Works because it's named after the office, but you can go directly to the YMCA. Honestly, I don’t care who gets credited with the money so long as the money comes in. That's the most important thing.
Paula Senior: Thank you.
Wendy Harris: Paula, I really thank you for sharing that pivotal moment with us. I applaud you for sharing. I'll be thinking of that anniversary tomorrow as well. Also, sending a little prayer up to say, "Do you know what, thank goodness he's got his own family to look after now". That's made all the difference.
Paula Senior: Yes. Thank you, Wendy.
Wendy Harris: If anybody wants to reach out to you, Paula, where can they find you?
Paula Senior: You can call me on 07754 045869 or my email address is paula.senior@burtonymca.org. Of if anybody needs any help which is obviously crucial as well, for anything, the number is 01283 547211 and we're based in Burton town centre, opposite the Asda Island. We say it's a grey curbed brick building, with flats either side. Someone's there 24/7, the door never closes. We are always there for anyone.
Wendy Harris: If you know anybody that needs help pass those numbers on. That'd be great. Thank you again, Paula.
For those listeners that are tuning after 6 November, we survived the Sleep Out, we're still raising funds for the YMCA so please check out those donation links if you can. A pound is all we're asking. Anymore is fantastic.
We'll keep you updated and if you follow us on social media, we will give you a total nearer to Christmas when all the penny counting has been done. Thank you so much.
Thank you to all of my guests for sharing their contact details. When you reach out to them don't forget to mention the podcast show, so that they know exactly where you have come from. That will help them out.
Thank you listening to the Making Conversations Count Podcast. It's been a pleasure to have you join us today. Please make sure you subscribe at www.makingconversationscount.studio/subscribe. That way every episode we release will come straight into your inbox and you'll never miss a conversation.
Thanks for listening.
Making conversations about tax count! Wendy is joined by Managing Partner, Azam Mamujee a tax specialist with a voice of velvet. Azam agrees that conversations count however he explains how numbers can tell a much more powerful story. He has a catch phrase “Give Azam the facts, I’ll save you the Tax”.
We know you will find Azam’s pivotal moment a beautiful story and will resonate with…listen to find out!
Azam offers a wealth of resources for free and invites you to connect with him:
https://www.m-cubed.org/resources
https://www.linkedin.com/in/azam-mamujee/
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode 3
November 5th 2020
Wendy Harris & Azam Mamujee, Managing Partner M Cubed.
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:26: The tree of comfort
00:03:32: Finding the right path on your journey
00:05:21: How numbers can tell their own story
00:08:45: Azam's pivotal moment
00:14:23: When children become their own person
00:15:01: Your business is like your child
00:15:25: A Chicken-licken moment!
00:16:54: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count. This is the podcast that business leaders share their pivotal moments, a conversation that was a turning point in their life and business. Today's guest is the wonderful Azam Mamujee. Thank you for joining me, Azam.
Azam Mamujee: I'm really grateful to be here in this autumn time. It is the first podcast I'm doing and I'm feeling a little bit vulnerable.
Wendy Harris: Well, don't worry, Azam, I will look after you. With every guest that comes on the show, we'll share a little bit about how we met, and I've never heard your pivotal moment before; that's the beauty of the concept of it, is that hopefully our listeners will take something from your story and it will resonate with them and it will blend out into the ether to help those people that are listening.
I'm honoured that it's your first podcast. I've been on the other side. This is my first podcast show, so it's fantastic to be able to invite people like yourself, who I see as a peer in your industry. So, Azam, tell the listeners, how did we meet?
Azam Mamujee: Virtually, so online. It wasn't a dating website, but it was another website for business networking. And, I did see you across a room, but across a Zoom room. It was great when we had a one-to-one and we connected.
Wendy Harris: I seem to remember talking about a tree outside of your window?
Azam Mamujee: Yeah. And I'm really grateful; there are some beautiful, old, big trees outside my window and whatever the day I'm having, there's one tree, a pine tree, which is over 100 years old, by how it is, and it always looks down on me and smiles a little and says, "Well, you know, however your day's been, I've seen all the seasons and I've seen them come and go and I still provide shelter for people. And I've seen the winds and I've seen that everything is temporary". And, it's quite a comforting thing that that tree does to me.
And, sometimes I'm in a meeting and I will look out to the side and it waves it branch and I will take comfort from that.
Wendy Harris: The tree speaks to you then?
Azam Mamujee: It does; it's so generous. It gives its time and with no expectation of return.
Wendy Harris: That's got to be a lot easier than having a dog and having to take that out for a walk!
Azam Mamujee: That's true.
Wendy Harris: I'm blessed to have met you, and only met you this year really, Azam, as well. What I particularly loved about our first conversation was the approach that you have in business, and in life, is just to get to know a person and to understand truly what it is that they're looking to achieve so that you can see how you can help.
You have a real holistic approach. Not that our listeners can see, but the banner behind you, it looks like you standing on the top of a mountain with your arms outstretched, and it could be several different phrases that spring to mind, depending on how you feel. It's like, "Yes, relief! Yes, I've achieved!", so many adjectives that come to mind. What is it about that image that struck you as being a representation of you in business?
Azam Mamujee: The journey. And, I see the journey and then I see myself and everybody else, and I see business owners and colleagues, and we're all on journeys and we're all on a path. And, sometimes you've got to know which way; and when there are forks in a path, which way. And when you've got good people around you, that makes life so much easier.
So, when I see that image of someone on the mountain top, they've been through that; and, when I'm looking for people to work with, it's a real joy when somebody says, "You know, I've been in a similar position and these are the things I had to think about". That brings a great tapestry and a richness to life. And we have business conversations; it is then about seeing where somebody is on that journey and where that business is on that life.
We talked about that tree right at the beginning, and it might ask, "What season are we in? Is this business in spring; is it in its autumn; is it in its winter; or, is it in its summer?" and that means it needs different things. Once you understand that, that helps you to actually give much better and also really be part of that journey with that, say, business owner.
Wendy Harris: I think it's connection, being connected, and at a much deeper level than just, here's what I do; do you want it or not? That's what you want to achieve; this is how I can help you get there. You're really an educator, a scholar at what you do. That's sort of how I perceive it. And, there are a lot of people that you meet in your field that perhaps don't see that journey the same, so it's a real joy to meet somebody that wants to be on that journey.
With what you do, we've not mentioned what you do, but you run an accountancy firm, so you're dealing a lot with numbers. However, it is really the words that forge the action and I can imagine that there are difficult conversations, as well as some really positive conversations that you have. So, by having that shared love of connecting with your customers, I'm guessing that when people come to you, they don't leave readily?
Azam Mamujee: I'm going to disagree with you, Wendy.
Wendy Harris: Are you? That's fine.
Azam Mamujee: Yes, I am. And, I'm going to say that actually, numbers are like words that tell a story, and it tells a story about how well somebody's doing and the strength of the position of a balance sheet; or, how well somebody's been doing over a period of a profit and loss account; or, how the blood is flowing within an organisation, their cash flow statement. Once you really understand the story that these numbers are telling you, you get a real insight into those people and what's happening.
So, I see a real connection between not just what's in people's heads, but also then what is shown by the numbers and the stories that are shown by the numbers, and sometimes there's a disconnect.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, I think that's probably why I made the rash remark that it's words that tell the story, because that's what everybody communicates in; language and words. But of course, you're right. That's why we need specialists like you to understand the numbers so you can translate the story, because to some, numbers are in fact a foreign language, aren't they?
Azam Mamujee: Yes, and this language, like a normal language, has its own grammar, syntax, and also just by changing the way things are shown, or the order of words, you can change the emphasis and you can change how the story looks.
I can show you a profit and loss account which shows a huge loss and the story could be, this is terrible; you have not made any money. And, just by changing how things are, that same profit and loss account, the story could be, they are investing huge amounts of money for future potential.
So, an IT company like LinkedIn, Facebook, Google, made huge losses in the beginning, but they invested a huge amount of money to then reap rewards in the future. So, you can see that even just by that sort of narrative, you can change things.
Wendy Harris: It's the difference between sacrifice and risk, I think. Do you sacrifice now; or, is it a risk now; or, is it an investment now?
Azam Mamujee: Yeah, and there's lots of wonderful things you can do if you understand that language. And, that's a little bit what I love doing.
Wendy Harris: You are the Barry White of accountants! You have an aura around you that when you're talking, as well, that I will sit and listen. The way that you present is that I will sit and listen. So, I think that also enhances the whole experience of understanding numbers and what those numbers are going to do, because that's just yet another layer of trust I have, because I'm listening intently to what is it that you're going to tell me.
Now, I'm going to move us on to your pivotal moment, Azam. So, the floor's yours to share that story with us.
Azam Mamujee: Wow; pivotal moments; what does that mean? For me, what that means is a time when there was a conversation that suddenly changed the way that I looked at something; suddenly changed the way that I felt about something; and you've got to recognise that.
The time that comes to mind as we sit here now, Wendy, you and me together, is actually a time in a café. It was a sunny day and there was this café in my old college that I went to, somewhere called Jesus College, Cambridge. I was there a year ago waiting for my daughter. My daughter had applied to university and somehow, she'd applied to my old university. She was looking at other universities and then she said, "Papa, what about your old university? I'm going to go and see that one".
And then, I took her to the Cambridge open day for computer science and then I said, "Well, you need to also apply to a college", so she then had a look at all the colleges. And then she said, "Papa, I've looked at the colleges and I want to apply to your old college", and I said, "But, you know, the odds are very, very small".
And she worked really hard then for six months; she got some work experience; she did lots of different things, put together her CV and all these statements and everything else. And then, I don't know how she did it, but she got an interview. And I know those interviews; you're down to the last 30 and there are 5 places and everybody is like an A-star candidate. And then she said, "Papa, can you take me to the interview?"
So, I'm back at my old college and I'm sitting in the café with a laptop and a mobile phone pretending to work, but I'm not. She's gone for some tests in the morning and then, she's going to go for some interviews in the afternoon, but she said, "Papa, I'm going to have lunch with you. Wait in the college café and I'll come and get you".
Then, I remember seeing her walking towards me through the window and she was walking down the path. I could almost not recognise her. She was this confident person walking. She didn't seem like my daughter. Then, she came in and she said to me, "Papa, I'm not going to have lunch with you". I said, "What do you mean you're not going to have lunch with me?" and she said, "I've been speaking with some of the other candidates who were in the test and if it's okay with you, I'm going to have lunch with them", and then she turned.
In that second, in that moment, in that instant, her hair flicked, she turned around and I knew, in that moment, that she was her own being.
Wendy Harris: Not your little girl anymore.
Azam Mamujee: She wasn't my little girl anymore and actually, she didn't need me at that time; and that she was going to be responsible for the whole of her life; and that I didn't have to project what I wanted for her on her. But, she was her own flame.
Wendy Harris: She'd followed her own path. You'd held her hand to that moment without pushing or pulling, but just walking beside her. As a parent, and I have a daughter that's gone through university and come out with a first degree, and there is nothing prouder, is there, in a parent's life, than just knowing in that moment that all of the work that you've done is done. If we could bottle it, it would be brilliant.
Azam Mamujee: They can fly; they are their own flame and our role is really then changed and different. It was a bittersweet moment, so almost a tear came to my eye because I was thinking, actually I loved holding that little thing.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, but you were probably hungry and waiting for some lunch!
Azam Mamujee: Yeah, maybe I was! Yes, it's true.
Wendy Harris: How beautiful thought, because they are our little girls, our butterflies, in the end, aren't they? They hatch and just the way that you described that flick of the hair was like her wings unfolding and she's off.
Azam Mamujee: I was the witness to that, so I was watching that. I was watching my own emotions as well. I'm really grateful that actually, we can all see that and experience these things, just really savour those moments; even this moment with you, Wendy. You see, you can flick your hair. For the listeners, I don't have any hair, so I dream of hair!
Wendy Harris: I've still got lockdown hair; it's fine! It's a beautiful, pivotal moment to realise that you were there as a father, but sort of relinquished of some form of responsibility over that person, because they owned it themselves.
Azam Mamujee: And, when I said there was a bittersweet moment and there was almost a tear, but also there was a weight lifting from me that actually, I know the burden of this person. Actually, no, they can now dance their dance.
Wendy Harris: Yeah. It's the worry of a parent, because there are certain things that we just can't control when they get to a certain age. I would say, "It's fine"; my dad used to say, "It's fine. Once they go to bed, you don't have to worry anymore", and I was like, "What, you don't worry what they're dreaming?" Being a parent is a beautiful thing.
Azam Mamujee: And I see that even with business owners. Sometimes they cannot close the door and move on to something else, or think about something else, you know, in the evening. There is that weight on them. And, when is it that you can trust the business, or can you build something where you can let it go and not have to be on the bridge all the time?
Wendy Harris: I understand what you're saying and I think the homework that I was given on my mental health first-aider course, it was a two-day course, and that first evening was, put your phone away for an hour. And the next day, gosh, there were ten of us on that course and every single person struggled with their phone away from them for an hour, fearful that something might happen, or they might miss something.
And, you know, I go from my office into the house now, and that's my homework every day. I go in, put the kettle on, I'll say, "What's everybody been up to today?" and I'll cook the dinner and the phone stays in the kitchen for the rest of the evening, because it's family time. There's nothing that can't wait until tomorrow.
Azam Mamujee: It's true.
Wendy Harris: It's that Chicken-licken moment, isn't it, that the sky won't fall in. So in part, it's about the business; in part, it's about how we deal with it; and yes, if we've got big aspirations because we want to give our children so much more, we still have to remember to be in the moment with our children?
Azam Mamujee: And sometimes, you know, when I look at that tree over there, it just says the same sort of thing.
Wendy Harris: I am constant.
Azam Mamujee: I am here. And also, it keeps on giving shade and the squirrels love it. They keep on bouncing around.
Wendy Harris: I expect they're busy right now?
Azam Mamujee: They're busy right now.
Wendy Harris: Azam, it's been an absolute pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much for sharing your pivotal moment with me and the listeners. Just before we go, tell people where can they find you if you want to reach out and have a chat with you about our conversation today?
Azam Mamujee: Social media is something I love and hate, but there is something called LinkedIn, so you can find me pretty easily on that at Azam Mamujee, and obviously we have a website, m-cubed.org, and I love connecting with people. I've never found anyone who doesn't have a seed of beauty within them.
Wendy Harris: That's kind of why we're going to keep making conversations count.
Azam Mamujee: Thank you, Wendy.
Wendy Harris: No, thank you, Azam. Don't forget to send your comments in to me. I'm going to be looking forward to reading those. Share with your audience and make sure you stay subscribed so you don't ever miss an episode. Thanks so much for listening.
Making Conversations about Influencer Marketing count!
Influencing and marketing expert Nat Schooler joins Wendy as they chat about how important it is to produce strategic content online. Nat spends his time podcasting, writing, and driving across foreign continents for fun. However, their conversations quickly turn to the importance of building relationships with the people you want to work with. Nat places trust as the highest asset everyone should nurture.
Nat is considered a social media influencer in marketing and has a great business approach.
Nat explains this pivotal moment with such clarity you can smell the soap and understand quickly why he was influenced to be driven with it…
You can connect with Nat here where he's more than happy to start conversations.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanielschooler/
Check out his resources and
https://natschooler.com/
FULL TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE
Making Conversations Count – Episode 2
Wendy Harris & Nat Schooler
November 5th 2020
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:45: Importance of content relevance
00:04:22: Building an audience through relationships
00:08:12: Conversations lead to useful introductions
00:09:38: Nat’s pivotal moment
00:13:59: The joy of following your path
00:16:05: Developing the skills you need
00:18:05: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: Welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast where business leaders come and share their pivotal moments to help aspiring entrepreneurs with their stories. Today on the show, I have Nat Schooler. Hello, Nat, thanks for joining us.
Nat Schooler: Hello, Wendy, it’s very nice of you to invite me.
Wendy Harris: So, Nat, tell everybody what you do and how we first met.
Nat Schooler: Well, my major focus is around influencing and marketing. So, I’m the Principal Consultant at The Influencer Marketing Company and we run a series, loads of different podcast shows. We mainly deal with technology businesses, software-as-a-service businesses, to create market exposure, understanding and presence. I do a bit of writing as well and I do a lot of podcasting.
Wendy Harris: I know that you are very active on social. That’s kind of where we met really, wasn’t it, through mutual friends online, and you have a very conversational style. So, I was naturally drawn to what you were chatting about on the different platforms on LinkedIn and I particularly like your Facebook, I have to say. That’s where you get to see the real Nat, I think?
Nat Schooler: Yeah, it’s quite funny, my Facebook; I forgot you were on there! Oh dear!
Wendy Harris: I am who I am, wherever I am, whatever the platform. I really don’t stick to any kind of protocol. LinkedIn is the business platform, but still I think people need to know who you are and I think that’s where what you are putting out there, in terms of conversational content, is what attracts people, and that’s the influence that you can have over people. Is that what you see in what you do?
Nat Schooler: Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, I think the content is the key; but also, the relevance of the content to the audience, right? So if, for example, I’m helping IBM with a software trial or something like this, then I want to be speaking to the right people. So, that piece of content needs to be a blog or a video or whatever, and it needs to actually have the right content so that particular job, the actual person, is relevant to the content; and the other way round.
So, if you’re getting a blog written that’s really technical, it’s going to appeal to a chief tech officer or a chief information officer or a chief security officer, or whatever, but it needs to be relevant and I think that’s the most important thing that I’ve learnt. I think, yes, you can build relationships and you can get closer to people but I think, if you want to sell something, then you need relevance, definitely, yeah.
Wendy Harris: With that, everybody has a different sort of absorption, don’t they? Some people like to read, some people like to watch, some people like to listen. So, I think it’s important as well that whatever that content is, that you have a mix and a myriad of the same content, but just delivered in different styles?
Nat Schooler: Yeah, well we’ve got to try. Then, that goes back to the specific job role, right? If you’re trying to hit executives, most executives read. All right, they will also listen to stuff and they will also watch it. If you’re like me, I’ll read stuff, I’ll listen to it, I’ll watch it, because that’s who I am. So, I will absorb content in many different ways. It’s just knowing your audience.
And yeah, of course, if money was no object and there was no budget, you’d create content on all channels all the time. You’d create a podcast, you’d turn that into videos, you’d cut them up, you’d turn them into audiograms and then, you’d put them into blogs. But the thing is that, in the real world, that actually takes a hell of a lot of resource.
You know, I do podcasts myself and creating transcriptions; all right, you’re going to get 90% accuracy, but there’s always going to be someone that’s going to get annoyed because it’s not accurate. So, you know, that takes extra resource. Everything’s a matter of resource, right?
Wendy Harris: Yeah, time or money or effort.
Nat Schooler: Yeah, it’s the same thing, because someone’s got to do it and if you were going to pay yourself to do it, you’d be doing a £10 an hour job, which is not really what I want to do with my time. But, it really just depends on who it’s for, if you’ve got a love and a passion for what you’re doing; if you enjoy what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter much.
Wendy Harris: I think that’s why people go from doing to teaching. I would never run out of ideas for content; it’s bizarre, yet I don’t have the time to fashion exactly how I would want it. There’s a loose strategy around it, but then if I had more time to do it, I think that would be tighter and smarter. And it’s the old adage, “Don’t do as I do; do as I say”, as well.
Nat Schooler: Well, yeah. But, when you look at Gary Vaynerchuk, I mean some people don’t like him. I don’t care if they don’t like him. I went through a couple of years of totally disliking him because he swore all the time and I just got fed up with his attitude, but he’s right.
You can create 100 pieces of content a day and put that out there, then you’re going to get a load of eyeballs, then that is going to build your audience and then, that is going to, in essence, translate into money, providing you’ve got a business strategy. If you don’t have a business strategy and you don’t align content with your business strategy, then what’s the point of having content anyway?
I just try to keep up a constant level of awareness of me, right, and that’s it. And I’d like to do more, but I don’t, because I just get burnout. Everyone gets burnout. I spent nearly two years saying, “Well, can I really be bothered to do this?” Whatever, 26,000 Twitter followers went to 25,500. I think there’s too much obsession with creating content.
I think it’s really about personal relationships, and if you’ve got a business and you’ve got a business model and you can send someone a private message and say, “Hey, Wendy, I’m doing this, I noticed that you’re doing that, do you want to partner on this?” which is what I’ve been doing. I mean, I’m talking to an SEO strategy company today.
Wendy Harris: Yeah, collaboration’s really powerful.
Nat Schooler: Yeah, massive.
Wendy Harris: I mean, it is about the building of relationships, and I understand that content springboards the start of that. What I endorse is that you’ve got to show up as yourself and I think that’s even more important, that if you’re going to take what’s online into the real world, it has to match, it’s got to be consistent. You’ve got to be representing your true self, your true identity, your true values to the core. You don’t always see that translate, which is why I always say conversations count, on every level.
Nat Schooler: Authenticity is 100%. But, I think it depends on the kind of content you’re putting out there. Like, if I put out on LinkedIn all the pictures that I’ve been taking while I’ve been travelling across Europe, it would drive people insane right now; so, I just reserve that for my Instagram, for my friends on Facebook to drive them nuts, right, because they know me and it’s like, they don’t have to look at it.
But also, on LinkedIn it’s like, well actually, if you’ve got good content that’s sitting there on your profile and you go and connect with someone, then that is going to help you. If you don’t have any content on your profile, some people are going to connect with you, but are they the people that you want? No. So, you need something!
Wendy Harris: Yes. And the point there though, I think, is that whilst I am the same everywhere I go, there are some protocols where you know that, like you were saying, those images of you travelling are going to be more popular on Instagram than on LinkedIn, so it’s what you lead. The content’s going to be the same; it’s just going to be tweaked slightly differently.
But of course, if I’m going to start a conversation with somebody on LinkedIn, I would hope that I would get to know them well enough that then I do become their friend on Facebook; that then I do go and have a look at what they’re doing on Instagram, because they’ve put a Facebook post up going, “I’ve just stuck a load of stuff on Instagram”.
So, I think there’s just different levels of building up that relationship that all starts with a conversation at some point.
Nat Schooler: Very much so. And a lot of the time, those people are not your customers. They’re going to be people that might introduce you to other people that might be your customers, and that’s what people forget. You can say what you want to me, right, but you don’t know who I know and you don’t know; I could just introduce you to someone that could make you a millionaire in the next 24 months, right? So, my advice is to just best be polite!
Wendy Harris: Noted! Be polite to Nat!
Nat Schooler: I’m not talking to you though, Wendy. I like your style; you’ve got a really good conversational style, and that’s who you are. You’re authentic; you’re the same person face-to-face as you are online.
Wendy Harris: And that’s important, because putting a mask on can be really draining. There are tools and tricks that you learn, but in terms of being able to be faceless on the phone, now there’s nowhere to hide. So, just be yourself, because it will come back on your tenfold, and not necessarily in a good way, if you are anything other.
I ask everybody that comes on the show to have a think about a pivotal moment, because I think that there are conversations that we have with different people on our journey, whether that be work or just generally in life, and we know when that moment was. So, I’m going to ask you to share what that moment was and how it affected you after?
Nat Schooler: All right. It’s a big one this. I’ve had so many different ones, but I think this is the most important one, because it wasn’t a conversation with a person; that’s what’s so crazy. I’ll give you a bit of background.
I’d had a podcast show and I did interviews with people, well since 2014, I think, I’d been interviewing people on YouTube and I didn’t really build a big following. It wasn’t about that; it was about building relationships and understanding other people’s knowledge and learning. So, I interviewed all sorts of people and for some reason, I launched a podcast show with a business partner and it didn’t work out.
So, I was like, “I love podcasting”, and I was umming and ahhing about this probably for about six months, maybe even longer. And, I heard these words in my head, like, this was September 2018. And these words in my head said, “You must start another podcast”. So, I was like, “What?!” It was like my dad or someone leaning into my head with a pipe and shouting in my head. So, it was just super-weird. So I was like, all right, I’ll start a podcast.
I basically launched a website, got some podcasts that I’d had in my archives; one of them was with Michael Tobin OBE. He basically merged two big cloud storage companies, data centres, and he sold them for like, well I think he sold them for nearly US$3 billion, which is like ten times a UK billion; so, a substantial amount of money. And, he’s been a supporter of mine since I started podcasting back on my first show. I’d connected with him on LinkedIn and we met up in London. I’ve interviewed him multiple times. He’s helped me to launch multiple shows.
I dug out this old episode of Michael Tobin and I put it on my website and I did the transcriptions and then I was like, “Oh, that’s a relief, I can relax now”. And then maybe half hour later, I heard these words in my head saying, “You can’t relax, you need to do more, you need to get going, you’ve got to get your [bleeped audio] into gear”.
Wendy Harris: There’s something a little familiar about this conversation in your head happening?
Nat Schooler: So then I was like, “All right, all right, I’ll do it”. So, I basically dug out a few more episodes, interviewed three or four people, got six episodes ready with full transcriptions, imagery, titles, everything, and I launched one per day for a week. So, I had six episodes launching per week on iTunes and, you know, all the platforms.
And then, I was like, “Oh, that’s a relief, I can relax now”. Christmas, I hear these words again in my head saying, “No, you can have three days off, you need to cook your dad some lunch and that’s it”. I got to the end of that and I was like, “All right, I’ll get back to work”. So, I dug out another few old episodes, interviewed a few more people, and I basically launched six episodes in a week during January 2019, based upon what I was told in my head. So, I launched one, two, three.
I got to the Wednesday, launched the third one, and then I had an email, or a LinkedIn connection request, from the world’s largest eBook publisher asking me to basically create some expert talks. So then they were like, “Well, this is what it pays”, and we had a long conversation and I said, “Well, I can’t say that figure really motivates me”. So, in my childish mind, I timesed that figure by 100 and I said, “All right, I’ll do 100 for you”, and I almost did 100. I think I did 97 or something.
We’ve reached 100 now, so I get paid every six months for my interviews. I mean, I’ve interviewed Stanley Tucci; I’ve interviewed Ed Vaizey, the politician; I’ve interviewed so many people, you just wouldn’t believe it. And you basically become the guardian of their brand. I’ve interviewed quite a few OBEs, MBEs. They’re trusting you with their brand, right, and that trust is what is so powerful. The relationships that you are building with these people are phenomenal and it propels you.
So, it might be that you hear these words in your head, but if you don’t listen to them, you’re never going to know what you’re going to achieve in your life.
Wendy Harris: Yes, it’s interesting, and you’re not only guest that has had the conversation with themselves.
Nat Schooler: Well, I think it was the man upstairs, but they can think it was themselves.
Wendy Harris: Well, yeah, whatever. But by saying, you know, I’ve not had a physical conversation. And I kind of get it because, as soon as I realised what I wanted to talk to my guests about, I’ve been so driven. It’s consuming. I’m actually asleep dreaming what the conversation’s going to go like, and it’s —
Nat Schooler: Yeah, it’s really fun.
Wendy Harris: It is; it’s a really powerful process. Like you say, it’s a gift and you are a guardian of something. It’s so precious. I do feel like it’s a blessing to be able to have guests that come on like you to share a story and, you know, even I’m going, “I get that; I totally understand that, that you were meant to do that, because that was waiting for you to happen”. If you hadn’t have done it, who knows?
Had that wine been a good bottle and you’d have had another bottle, would you have done the same thing the next day?
Nat Schooler: Yeah. I had to do what I was told. It was clear instructions. When you hear a voice that’s that loud in your head, you need to do something. If you don’t do it, then you’re basically just robbing yourself and you’re going to end up on that bed looking back over your whole life, and that might be one of your biggest regrets, when you see all the other people that have done what you wanted to do in your life.
Wendy Harris: Absolutely. I think that this year particularly, it’s been about not just bringing back the basic priorities, but our basic drive for life. What are we leaving behind? What are the footsteps that we’re walking for others that haven’t done that; or, are we following somebody else’s footsteps; are we making our own path; are we leading the way for somebody to follow and make their life easier? There are so many things about this year that have been a fascinating insight into people and relationships.
Nat Schooler: I think also the skills, I think, outlining what you really need to learn. A friend of mine, about ten years ago, told me, “Look, you need to learn how to do all this stuff yourself. Everything that you’re selling, you need to learn how to do yourself”. And, you know what; he’s right, because if you don’t know how to do something yourself, who’s going to finish it when someone messes it up.
Like, someone today came to me. I did some interviews for a company and they’re like, “Well, we need an image with this text on with a photo of the person for our blog which we’ll feature in three episodes that you did for us, and we need them”. And I was just like, “Oh”. And then I was like, “Oh, it will take me ten minutes”, and I just did it.
I sent it to her in half an hour and she was like, “Wow, that was fast!” and I was just like, “Yeah, fairly; not bothered”, because those skills, you need to hone the skills you need because then, you can pick up the pieces if you need to fix something. Certainly with writing, with video, with podcast, with imagery; you don’t have to be an expert, but you need to know how to use the tools that are so easy to use.
Wendy Harris: I agree so much with what you’re saying there, Nat, because it’s one of those that I say to all the delegates that come on my sales and marketing workshops, that I train on a one-to-one or in a team basis, is if you don’t know what is expected through that process, how can you then even instruct anybody else to do it the way that you want it? Because, at some point, you’re not going to want to be making the tea and sweeping the floor and cleaning the loo; you’re going to want somebody to make the tea you like it, sweep the floor the way you like it, and leave the bowl nice and shiny. It’s about understanding that process.
Nat Schooler: You can’t hire anyone to do anything if you don’t know how it works. You’re going to get ripped off, is another reason.
Wendy Harris: Yes. Be as invested in it as anything else that you really want to do, is the key message there. Nat, I could talk to you forever. Thank you so much for sharing that pivotal moment for us. If anybody wants to pick up the conversation with you from today’s episode, where can people find you?
Nat Schooler: My website’s fine. It’s natschooler.com.
Wendy Harris: Nice and simple; I like it! Well, thanks so much again, Nat, I really appreciate your time. And for the listeners, don’t forget to send us your comments. We do reply to them all. Make sure you share and subscribe. The place to be is makingconversationscount.studio/podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Take care.
Conversations with business leaders who reflect on one of their own conversations that became the turning point in their career. Their pivotal moment.
Wendy will deep-dive into why this was so important to them and what followed.
Passionate about the art of conversation and the value of sharing stories to encourage others to build relationships. It can be invaluable as an aspiring entrepreneur to hear the journey of industry professionals to help shape their own path to success.
Wendy loves conversations, so she's incredibly excited to see where each guest will take us, and hopefully it will be a fun experience for you too!
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Transcript of audio trailer:
"I'm Wendy Harris, the host for the award nominated podcast, making conversations count. I'll be continuing to bring you business leaders that share conversations that counted for them to help you. Every guest is an expert in their field and they share insights and experience to help the listeners. They even go one step further than that.
Through our dedicated website, guests are sharing with listeners special tools, tips, tricks, downloads books, and all sorts of resources. It's about keeping that conversation going after you've listened to the episode, we've had some great feedback and we love giving shout outs to listeners when we receive.
I have my favorite episodes, including my own, sharing why the podcast was created, but I really want to know who is your favorite guest?
Let me know, make sure you follow the show, set it to automatic downloads and send me a message. You can buy my book, organise a chin work, even set up a once a one power up session to help you with your business.
Let's together keep "Making Conversations Count."