The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators: Recent Episodes
Dr. Asia Lyons
Amidst all of the conversations about the recruitment of Black educators, where are the discussions about retention? The Exit Interview podcast was created to elevate the stories of Black educators who have been pushed out of the classroom, main or central office. The podcast asks guests to share their education journey, the "last straw" that made them decide to leave education, and, most importantly, what they are doing now that they have left the traditional education sphere.
This episode challenges us to reflect: What traits define us? Who are we outside of productivity?
In this deeply affirming conversation, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Amanda Miller Littlejohnexecutive coach, journalist, and author of The Rest Revolutionto unpack burnout, identity, and the systems that pressure Black educators to overperform at the expense of their wellness. Together, they explore how the culture of overachievement, often masked as Black excellence, can be a trauma response, and why rest is personal and political.
Amanda shares her story of hitting a wall during the pandemic, discovering that when her creativity disappeared, it was her bodys cry for help. With heartfelt wisdom, Amanda urges educators to reconnect with what brings them joy, pursue radical self-knowledge, and lean into community care as a form of wealth and resilience.
Whether you're an educator on the brink or an ally seeking to support Black professionals, this episode is a powerful reminder: we dont have to earn our restwe were always worthy of it.
What happens when a Black educator survives a natural disaster, a political awakening, and a broken school systemall in the same year?In this deeply moving episode of The Exit Interview, Colorado State Representative Jennifer Bacon recounts how her early teaching career in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina became a catalyst for her journey into law, education reform, and public service. Reflecting on her experience as a young Black educator with Teach For America, she vividly recalls the chaos and trauma of evacuating during the storm, witnessing the devastation, and volunteering at a Red Cross shelterwhere she saw her students arrive with little more than plastic bags of belongings.
Jennifer shares the inequities she witnessed in the aftermath, including the erasure of Black educators, the rise of charter schools, and the criminalization of Black youthall of which shaped her understanding of systemic racism in education. Her reflections unpack the historical and political roots of educational injustice, from the collapse of the Orleans Parish school system to the national charter school movement. She explains how these experiences fueled her decision to attend law school, organize against the school-to-prison pipeline, and eventually serve in elected office.
Now a key voice in Colorado education policy, Bacon discusses current challenges like the states school funding crisis, the importance of mandating financial literacy courses, and the urgent need for Black teacher recruitment and retention. The episode ends with a raw and heartfelt meditation on rest, resilience, and the moral obligation to fight for systems that truly care for Black children and communities.
What happens when you're doing everythingleading a school, serving your community, answering the phones, teaching mathand still feel like you're drowning? In this Exit Interview live show, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Joy Delizo-Osborne, who shares the real reason she left her role as a founding principal: her doctor said quit, and her wife offered her a puppy if she finally did.
This conversation is not a highlight reel. It's a deeply human exploration of what it costs to stay in systems that praise your sacrifice but ignore your spirit. Joy reflects on burnout, Black womens addiction to care, and how hard it is to believe the job isn't your identity. She also offers a glimpse into her nowas CEO of Student Achievement Partnerswhere shes rewriting the rules of leadership, bringing equity and literacy into the same sentence, and finally choosing joy (and dogs).
If youve ever felt pulled between purpose and survival, this episode is your mirror and your permission slip.
What happens when an educator's deep love for liberation collides with the realities of traditional schooling?
In this episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Jamilah Pittseducator, author, yoga teacher, and founder of She Imprintsto explore her journey through the education system and beyond. Jamilah shares how her childhood experiences with Black women teachers inspired her dream to teach, and how her international work, from Boston to the Dominican Republic to India, shaped her vision of education as a tool for healing and activism. She opens up about the emotional toll of navigating toxic school environments, the complexities of internalized racism among leadership, and the moment she chose her own wellness over a broken system. Throughout the conversation, Jamilah offers a deep call to center healing in our schools, reimagine leadership, and honor the full humanity of educators.
In this powerful episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Josephine Ampaw-Greene a licensed family therapist and former educatorto explore what it truly means to sustain wellness while navigating the demands of education and racial battle fatigue. Josephine shares her unique journey from paraeducator to residential school teacher to therapist and business owner. She opens up about the importance of pausing, setting boundaries, embracing joy, and why "being well means not pretending to be well."
Together, they unpack how career identity intersects with self-worth, how to support educators experiencing racism-related stress, and what families can do to create restorative spaces for their loved ones working in schools.
Key Topics Covered:
- How to decide how much of your identity belongs to your career
- Creating trauma-informed practices that center joy and authenticity
- The impact of racism-related stress on educators and their families
- The role of community and family in educator wellness
- Practical regulation tools for teachers, like the ice cube trick
- How Josephine builds a teaching practice that launches therapists of color
- Why leaving education isnt a failureits a transition toward wholeness
In this special episode recorded live at Quince Coffee House, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Jenna Greenwood to explore her inspiring journey of self-discovery, family legacy, and finding community beyond traditional educational spaces. Jenna shares stories about growing up influenced by her grandmother, Marie Greenwood, Denvers first Black tenured teacher, and navigating her own complex identity within predominantly white educational institutions. She also provides invaluable insights into understanding college affordability and scholarships, leveraging her expertise in financial aid to empower students and their families. Finally, Jenna discusses the critical importance of wellness, mindfulness, and creating affirming spaces like Quince Coffee House, a business she co-owns that serves as a vibrant community hub.
In this powerful episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, host Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Jason B. Alleneducator, activist, and policy advocateto discuss the systemic barriers Black students and educators face in traditional school systems.
Jason shares his personal journey from school administrator to special education teacher, revealing how he fought against discriminatory practices that misplace Black students into special education programs without proper support. He details how systemic racism influences school discipline policies, the struggles of Black educators navigating certification roadblocks, and the larger implications of anti-Black policies in education.
Jason also discusses his transition from the classroom to education policy work, emphasizing the need for community-driven solutions, Black educator retention, and the importance of dismantling the school-to-prison pipeline. This episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in educational equity, policy reform, and the fight to create spaces where Black educators and students can thrive.
In this episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with award-winning educator and advocate Keisha Rembert to discuss her journey in education, the challenges Black educators face, and the importance of racial literacy, affinity spaces, and wellness.
Keisha reflects on her 17-year career as a middle school educator, emphasizing how she initially resisted entering the profession. Coming from a lineage of Black educators, she found herself drawn into teaching after a series of experiences, including substitute teaching, which led her to recognize her passion for learning and co-teaching with students. She shares how her students played an integral role in shaping the curriculum, a strategy that strengthened engagement and student agency.
In this episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Dr. Adrienne Davenport, a veteran educator, administrator, and author, to talk about career transitions, leadership, and the realities of being a Black educator.
Dr. Davenport shares how she unexpectedly entered the field of education, her journey from teacher to administrator, and why she made the bold decision to leave her role as a principaleven before knowing what was next. She reflects on what schools need to do to attract, support, and retain Black educators, the importance of instructional leadership, and why stepping outside of your comfort zone is the key to growth.
If youre an educator thinking about making a shift, an aspiring leader, or just someone who needs a reminder that faith, preparation, and trusting your instincts matter, this episode is for you.
What Youll Hear in This Episode: [00:02:00] Dr. Davenports unexpected journey into education and how she pivoted from a legal career to teaching
[00:05:00] Navigating family and community expectations when making a career switch
[00:08:00] Teaching middle school: Why eighth graders were her favorite students
[00:15:45] "If you want something, you have to go out and get it." The importance of career growth and leadership development
[00:16:45] "When you get too comfortable, you dont grow." Why taking risks in your career is necessary
[00:24:45] "I didnt know what was next, but this wasnt it." Walking away from a leadership role without a set plan
[00:33:45] The role of Black educators as ambassadors for the profession
[00:37:00] Barriers to entering education: cost, licensing exams, and lack of support
[00:43:15] "You cannot be afraid of instruction." The key to effective school leadership
[00:50:45] "None of us have arrived. Every morning we get another opportunity." Finding wellness, peace, and purpose in education
Quotes Worth Sharing: "We have to be good ambassadors of our profession."
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained!"
"You dont need all the answersyou just need to know when something isnt right."
"Leaving my principal role wasnt leaving the missionit was expanding it."
Connect with Dr. Adrienne Davenport: Website: drdconsulting.org
Email: drdconsulting407@gmail.com
LinkedIn: Dr. Adrienne Davenport
Instagram: @DrDavenportEd
Books:
- My Hope Is Built: Reflections of Faith, Grace, and Resilience from an Educational Leader
- STAND: Five Powerful Strategies for Overcoming Barriers to Becoming an Instructional Leader
Resources & Mentions in This Episode: National Alliance of Black School Educators (NABSE)
The Exit Interview Podcast Website
Keep the Conversation Going! What resonated with you most from this episode? Let us know in the comments or tag us on social media using #ExitInterviewPodcast
YouTube: The Exit Interview Podcast for Black Educators
Website: exitinterviewpodcast.com
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In this powerful and reflective episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons sits down with Najmah Ahmad to discuss her nearly 20-year journey through education, from working in nonprofits and higher education to leadership roles in school districts and national policy. Najmah candidly shares her experiences navigating systemic challenges, microaggressions, and the often overwhelming toll of racial battle fatigue.
Listeners will hear how Najmahs desire to support people in moments of transition shaped her career and led her to create transformative programs for young people, such as leadership curriculums and paid internships. She also opens up about the pivotal moment when her physical health forced her to confront the toll her work was taking on her mind, body, and spirit, leading to her decision to leave traditional education spaces and build her own consulting business.
This episode explores themes of wellness, self-liberation, and the importance of acknowledging the impact of systemic racism in professional spaces. Najmahs story is a testament to resilience, healing, and the power of creating your own path to freedom.
In this episode of 'The Exit Interview,' host Dr. Asia Lyons welcomes Dr. Damia Thomas, who brings over two decades of experience in urban education. They discuss retention challenges in education, emphasizing the importance of work environment, culture, and kindness over monetary incentives. Dr. Thomas shares her journey from starting as a teacher to becoming a school principal and author and founding her consultancy. She highlights her experiences in transforming school cultures, working in predominantly Black communities, and the critical role of leadership. Dr. Thomas provides actionable insights on establishing consistency, leveraging leadership teams, and creating values-based systems to promote teacher retention and well-being.00:00 Introduction to Retention Challenges00:43 Welcome to The Exit Interview Podcast01:37 Introducing Dr. Demia Thomas03:51 Dr. Thomas' Journey in Education04:59 Experiences in Urban Education12:09 Leadership and Principalship23:00 Founding an All-Girls School27:22 Closing Ceremony Reflections28:05 Challenges and Changes in Leadership30:59 Navigating Racial Dynamics34:00 Realizing the Need for Change37:29 Transition to Consulting45:01 Shoutouts and Current Work47:15 Supporting School Leaders52:30 Final Thoughts and Wellness
In this episode of The Exit Interview Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons and guest host Stacey Taylor Brandon welcome Dr. Shawn Ginwright, a thought leader in education and youth development. Dr. Ginwright discusses his revolutionary concept of healing-centered engagement and the importance of self-reflection for Black educators dealing with racial battle fatigue and systemic oppression. Emphasizing the need for self-care and community healing, he shares insights from his acclaimed book, 'The Four Pivots.' He highlights practical steps leaders can take to foster wellness in educational spaces. Dr. Ginwright also underscores the vital role of Black women in caregiving, the necessity of establishing sanctuary spaces, and the importance of giving from one's excess rather than essence. Throughout the episode, the conversation delves into personal narratives, systemic challenges, and actionable strategies for integrating wellness practices into everyday life and professional settings.P.S. The Exit Interview will record a live episode with Joy Delizo-Osborne at SXSW EDU 2025 on March 5th! Hope to see you there!00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview00:36 Meet the Guest Host: Stacey Taylor Brandon01:30 Introducing Dr. Sean Genwright01:43 Dr. Genwright's Work and Contributions03:23 Welcome Dr. Genwright to the Podcast04:39 The Importance of Self-Reflection05:22 Racial Battle Fatigue and Healing11:03 Balancing Care and Self-Wellness21:32 A New Perspective on Motherhood21:59 The Impact of Stress on Health23:22 Applying the Four Pivots in Education25:12 Personal Development for Leaders26:52 Building Supportive Systems31:48 Shoutouts and Acknowledgements34:45 The Importance of Self-Care40:16 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude
When the school nurse has to check your blood pressure three times, you know you're in trouble. In this episode of the 'Exit Interview' podcast, I archive the story of Dr. LaShaune Stitt. Dr. Stitt recounts her journey from childhood dreams of teaching to pioneering spaces for young men of Color, and the community-centered approaches that defined her work. Amidst these achievements, she opens up about the health crises and systemic challenges that led her to leave formal education. Our discussion touches on the critical support from women in her professional community, her experiences with racial battle fatigue, and the vital importance of therapy and self-care for Black educators. We delve into the significance of culturally responsive teaching environments and Dr. Stitt's current consulting work, emphasizing the broad, impactful ways educators can contribute to their communities beyond traditional classroom roles.
00:00 Welcome and Milestones
00:57 Introducing Dr. LaShaune Stitt
02:25 Dr. Stitt's Journey into Education
06:23 Founding an All-Male School
08:46 Challenges and Leadership in Education
18:24 Health and Well-being in Education
26:56 The Struggles of Educators
29:12 The Principal's Secret
32:06 The Breaking Point
36:04 A New Beginning
39:12 Shoutouts and Gratitude
41:44 Current Endeavors
48:04 Defining Wellbeing
52:07 Final Thoughts and Farewell
In this episode of The Exit Interview, host Dr. Asia Lyons engages in a deep conversation with Octavia Raheem about the transformative power of rest. Octavia Raheem, an accomplished author, rest restorative coach, and former public school teacher, shares her journey from traditional education to becoming a leader in wellness and restorative practices. The discussion explores the importance of rest for Black educators, the systemic challenges they face, and the necessity of self-care. Raheem passionately discusses the interplay between creativity, rest, and holistic well-being, offering practical steps for educators to integrate rest into their lives. Make sure to order her new book, Rest Is Sacred: Reclaiming Our Brilliance Through the Practice of Stillness.
In this episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators, Dr. Asia Lyons interviews Kwame Sarfo-Mensah and discusses his transformative journey from aspiring professional athlete to dedicated educator. Kwame discusses his initial pivot to becoming a math teacher and the various challenges he faced in his early teaching years, including a lack of support and job security in Philadelphia charter schools. Moving to Boston, he navigated the complexities of unionized school districts, ultimately learning the importance of self-care to avoid burnout and racial battle fatigue. This episode highlights systemic issues in education, such as the exploitation of committed Black educators and the importance of acknowledging their experiences. Reflecting on his time in Philadelphia, Kwame emphasizes the need for better support systems and career pathways for Black educators. His journey extends internationally as he moves to Sierra Leone, initiating the 'Identity Talk for Educators Live' podcast and authoring 'Learn to Relearn.'
In this episode of 'The Exit Interview, a podcast for Black educators,' Dr. Asia Lyons hosts Shatiera Porte'e, a school counselor, author, coach and education consultant. Shatiera shares her experiences working tirelessly in education during the COVID pandemic, reflecting on the challenging conditions that led to burnout and her decision to leave traditional education spaces. The discussion highlights the systemic issues Black educators face, such as overwork and lack of compensation, and underscores the need for mental health support within the education system. Shatiera talks about her current role as the founder of 'School Counselors on Wheels,' where she mentors students and educators, emphasizing mental wellness in education. She also introduces her self-help book 'I Forgive Myself for Forgetting Myself,' which aims to promote self-care among service professionals. Throughout the episode, Shatiera pays tribute to influential Black educators who impacted her life, expressing gratitude and reflecting on her journey toward balancing personal wellness and professional aspirations.
In this deeply engaging episode, Dr. Asia Lyons and Sarah Graham discuss the highs and lows of teaching, the systemic issues within public and charter schools, and the importance of culturally responsive and liberatory education. Sarah shares her personal journey, insights into creating inclusive curriculum, and the urgent need for rest and self-care. This episode is a must-listen for educators and anyone interested in the fight for educational equity.
In this episode of The Exit Interview, hosted by Dr. Asia Lyons, Julia Berry shares her transformative journey from wanting to be a teacher, doctor, and dancer as a child to becoming an educator focused on diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Julia outlines her path from excelling in math and engineering, realizing her passion for teaching, to teaching youth in correctional and treatment facilities. She discusses the challenges she faced with leadership due to her bold approach to DEI work. Julia touches upon the impact of race and supremacy on educational settings and emphasizes the importance of leadership involvement in DEI efforts. After leaving several roles due to systemic resistance to change, she finally finds alignment with her values at a community-based organization rooted in ancient African philosophy. The conversation delves into the personal and professional grief Julia encountered, her methods of self-care, and the joy she finds in her children, gardening, and yoga practice.
In this episode of The Exit Interview, Dr. Asia hosts Langston Jacobs, a Black male educator who shares his journey and the challenges he faced as a dean of culture in a charter school. Langston discusses his strategies for creating a supportive school environment, the impact of his role on his own mental and physical health, and the significant effects on his family. He reveals how he redefined his approach to leadership and discipline, emphasizing the importance of empathy and community. Langston also highlights the broader systemic issues in education, including the need for mentorship and culturally relevant teaching. Now co-founder and director of men and youth programs at Adams Purpose, Langston continues to support and heal communities through various therapeutic services. Sign-up for the Black Educators, Be Well Newsletter for updates on our podcast, tips to support wellness as a Black educator and much more!
In this episode of 'The Exit Interview,' host Dr. Asia Lyons talks with therapist and researcher Jason Shankle about the importance of creating sacred spaces and emotional boundaries, particularly for Black educators facing racial battle fatigue. Jason shares his journey in education and psychology, and offers practical strategies for coping with racial battle fatigue. The conversation delves into the significance of rituals, the value of Black therapists, and the need for intentional self-care practices. Jason underscores the importance of not trying to change toxic work environments but rather focusing on personal healing and maintaining emotional equity.
In our first live tapping, Kevin and Dr. Asia sit down with Dr. Dedrick Sims of the Sims-Fayola Foundation to talk about the importance of retention and recruitment of Black and Brown male educators, his own education story, and what it means to heal while doing the work of educating our youth.
This will be Kevin's first year as an assistant principal in the Denver area! In this episode, he briefly talks about his ideas on how school districts can retain Black educators based on his experiences in the classroom.
Dr. Asia Lyons is a guest on The Thoughtful Counselor Podcast!
"In this episode, Dr. Asia Lyons meets with Dr. Dèsa Karye Daniel to discuss the tenants of Racial Battle Fatigue and racism-related stress. Throughout their conversation, they reflect on the experiences of Black Teachers and how sharing these experiences can change the narrative for future Black educators. Dr. Lyons gives examples of how mental health practitioners can support Black educators through culturally responsive practices." -From, The Thoughtful Counselor Podcast
In this episode, Janet Stickmon returns to the podcast to talk to our audience about what healing from racial battle fatigue could look like.
Janet Stickmon makes a powerful return, focusing her efforts on supporting BIPOC individuals in healing from racial battle fatigue. Tune in as she passionately discusses her work, shares her unique perspectives on joy and abundance, and offers valuable insights to guide us all on our wellness journey.
This brief episode highlights the crucial importance for school districts to acknowledge and address the influence of family support on the departure of Black educators from the education field. The departure is being triggered by various factors, such as policies, colleagues, administrators, and others who are contributing to pushing Black educators out. Simultaneously, family members of Black educators are also playing a significant role in pulling them out of the classroom, driven by their weariness of witnessing vicarious racial battle fatigue.
As conversations arise about retention and recruitment during summer professional development sessions within the education sector, it is imperative to include the impact of family support in these discussions. Recognizing and understanding the role of family dynamics in the decisions of Black educators to remain or leave the profession can lead to more effective strategies for addressing the issue and fostering a supportive and inclusive environment for educators of all backgrounds.