In The Den with Mama Dragons: Recent Episodes
Mama Dragons
You're navigating parenting an LGBTQ child without a manual and knowing what to do and what to say isn't always easy. Each week we’ll visit with other parents of queer kids, talk with members of the LGBTQ community, learn from experts, and together explore ways to better parent our LGBTQ children. Join with us as we walk and talk with you through this journey of raising healthy, happy, and productive LGBTQ humans.
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When your child first came out to you as LGBTQ+, who else was in the room? Who else in your family had to absorb the news, adjust, learn, and figure out where they fit into a story that wasn’t theirs, but, as we’ll see in this episode, was also very much theirs? Most of the conversations In the Den center around our queer kids. Today’s episode focuses on our other kids–the siblings, who had to figure everything out quietly alongside the rest of us. In today’s episode, guest host Carmel sits down with guests Jessica, Hunter, and Brandon to reflect on their experiences of having a sibling come out, what changed for them, what challenges they faced, and what advice they have for others who have a sibling come out as queer.
Special Guest: Jessica Pierce
Jessica is the oldest of the Harper kids and big sister to Forrest. She works as a therapist specializing in OCD and trauma.
Special Guest: Hunter Pierce
Hunter joined the family when he married Jessica in May 2021. He is a fierce ally and believes we should all love one another unconditionally. He is an IT professional.
Special Guest: Brandon Harper
Brandon is the middle child of the Harper kids and Forrest's older brother. He is a tech entrepreneur building in the med tech and AI-embedded device space.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Today In the Den, we're going inside the Mama Dragons organization for a conversation with our Executive Director Liz Welch. We wanted to give folks a behind-the-scenes look at where we are today, what the organization has learned over the past few years, and where it's headed next. We'll talk about the challenges, the opportunities, and why this work feels more important than ever as more families are looking for hope, connection, and community. Like any nonprofit, Mama Dragons is made up of real people, mostly volunteers, dedicating themselves to keep this work going. We have celebrated incredible successes, weathered some difficult seasons, and continue to ask, "How do we best serve families in a world that keeps changing?" If Mama Dragons has ever been part of your story—or if you've wondered how movements like this keep going long after the headlines fade—we think you'll really appreciate this conversation.
Special Guest: Liz Welch
Liz has extensive advocacy and lobbying experience in LGBTQ+ and religious freedom at the federal, state, and local levels. While at the ACLU, Liz led a National Faith Coalition that supported efforts to advance protections for LGBTQ+ communities while preserving the rights of faith communities. She also co-facilitated a transgender education and advocacy project, working to train and support trans activists in advocating for their rights across the country. Additionally, Liz is a trained mediator, experienced facilitator, and event coordinator for everything from hyper-local Pride events to coordinating the rallies at the Supreme Court of the United States for the biggest cases of our time. She is the proud mother to Mariah, who is a public defender and an avid baker.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today
- Find Support Resources through Mama Dragons
- Mama Dragons Educational Offerings
- Mama Dragons Programs
- Parachute E-learning Program
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Pride is often celebrated with glitter, music, and rainbow flags—but at its heart, Pride has always been about something much deeper: showing up in love and solidarity so that no one has to wonder if they're alone. Today, we're talking with some of the Mama Dragons who set up booths at Pride festivals across the country, creating spaces where families could find hope, connection, and unconditional love. Joining Sara In the Den are three incredible volunteers: Yanira from Puerto Rico, Jill from Kansas, and Maria from Maryland. Though their communities are hundreds of miles apart, they share a common mission: to make sure every LGBTQ+ person, every questioning child, and every parent who feels overwhelmed knows there's a place where they belong. Whether you've marched in dozens of Pride parades or have never attended one, this episode is a reminder that sometimes the most powerful act of allyship is simply showing up—with an open heart, a listening ear, and the promise that no one has to walk this journey alone.
Special Guest: Maria Smith
Maria currently serves on the Board of Mama Dragons. Her 15+ year career in the financial services industry has been defined by a deep commitment to building inclusive, supportive environments within the workplace. She joined Mama Dragons to learn how to best support her queer child and has become an even more passionate advocate for LGBTQ+ youth and families. Maria lives in Maryland with her husband, their two children, and two Puggles. Her life is guided by empathy, action, and the belief that every person deserves to be seen, loved, and supported for exactly who they are.
Special Guest: Jill Clements
Jill is a mom of 3 living in the Midwestern United States. She coordinates the Mama Dragons Embracelet program. An Embracelet is a handmade bracelet that is like a warm hug around your wrist to remind you that you are loved. Since its inception in 2023, over 42,000 embracelets have been given out by Mama Dragons at events. Over the past four years she’s helped coordinate the Mama Dragons Pride Booth in Kansas City, MO which hosts over 25,000 attendees each year. A social worker by trade, Jill often can be found giving of her time and resources to a variety of causes whether it is parents of trans kids or kids affected by a parent’s cancer. In her dream world, Jill would be living in Iceland spending her days hiking and making art and her nights photographing the Northern Lights.
Special Guest: Yanira Vega
Yanira lives in Vega Baja, Puerto Rico, and is the mother of a young transmasculine son and a daughter. She has been a member of Mama Dragons since 2021, when she sought self-help resources and education to address her gender-diverse family’s experience with an affirming approach. That same year, she volunteered to help coordinate MD groups and assist with the vetting and moderation processes for some groups. Puerto Rico has had its own regional group since 2024, and on March 28, 2026, they held their first local community education event at the closing of the True Self Camp for Respect, where they shared Mama Dragons’ mission to support mothers and families in their journeys and highlighted all the programs available to assist them. Their next event will be on June 27 at the All Out 5k. Yanira is a doctor in Physical Therapy working in home health settings.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today
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For so many LGBTQ+ people—and for the parents who love them—the church has been a place of deep wounds rather than deep belonging. Too often, the message has been that to be loved by God, you first have to change who you are. So many have walked away from faith altogether, believing they had to choose between their spirituality and their authentic selves. But every once in a while, someone comes along who refuses that false choice. Instead of abandoning faith, they reclaim it. They reinterpret it. They reshape it into something expansive enough to hold their whole, beautiful selves—and in doing so, they create room for others to come home, too. Today In the Den, Sara talks with drag artist, songwriter, and musician Flamy Grant, whose bold blend of gospel, folk, country, and unapologetic queerness is challenging assumptions about who belongs in sacred spaces. They talk about reclaiming spirituality after harm, the healing power of music and drag, what it means to plant a stiletto in sacred space, navigating both praise and backlash, and why joy itself can be an act of resistance. Whether you've left religion behind, found your way back, or are still figuring out what you believe, this conversation is an invitation to imagine a faith that celebrates you exactly as you are.
Special Guest: Flamy Grant
Flamy Grant is a trailblazing drag queen and musician from Asheville, North Carolina with over 1.5 million streams on digital music platforms. Beautifully blending her Appalachian roots with drag artistry and musical excellence, Flamy has stormed stages from Los Angeles to London, from New York to the Netherlands, racking up over 1.5 million streams on digital music platforms. This powerhouse vocalist, intrepid songwriter, and shame-slaying drag queen serves up a therapeutic, theatrical experience that is fearless, flamboyant, and full of heart.
Links from the Show:
- Flamy on TikTok
- Flamy on IG
- Flamy on FB
- Flamy on Threads
- Flamy on YouTube
- Flamy on BlueSky
- Join Mama Dragons today
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What does it mean as a queer person to love a place deeply when that place has so often tried to make queer people disappear? Today In the Den, Sara visits with author, activist, and former Idaho legislator Cole LeFavour to talk about their powerful new memoir In the Arms of Mountains: A Story of Land, Love, and Queer Resistance in Red America. In 2004, Cole made history as the first openly LGBTQ+ member of the Idaho Legislature, serving four terms as an Idaho State Senator and leading multiple acts of civil disobedience in the State Capitol. In addition to their being a legislator and activist, Cole has also been a long-time writer and an award-winning journalist whose work has appeared in publications including The North American Review, Idaho Wilderness Considered, and Sawtooth-White Cloud. They write from deep in Idaho about conscience, wildness, belonging, and what it means to build a life rooted in both place and resistance. Part memoir, part love letter to Idaho’s wild places, and part testimony of queer resistance, Cole LeFavour’s story explores what it means to be shaped by a place that doesn’t always know how to love you back.
Special Guest: Cole LeFavour
Cole Nicole LeFavour writes about conscience and the wild from deep in Idaho. An activist, award-winning journalist and writer Cole’s stories and essays have appeared in The North American Review, Idaho Wilderness Considered, Sawtooth-White Cloud, among others. In 2004, LeFavour became the first openly LGBTQ+ member of the Idaho Legislature, elected four times, serving as an Idaho State Senator and leading multiple acts of civil disobedience in the State Capitol. Cole's book, IN THE ARMS OF MOUNTAINS: A STORY OF LAND, LOVE, AND QUEER RESISTANCE IN RED AMERICA was published by Beacon Press in May.
Links from the Show:
- Find Cole’s Book In the Arms of Mountains here
- Cole on FB
- Cole on IG
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Today’s In the Den episode is a rerun and one that cuts right to the heart of our Mama Dragons mission — we’re diving into the truth that parenting is political. Whether we like it or not, the choices we make as parents, how we show up for our kids, what we teach them, how we advocate for them, all ripple out into the world around us. When you’re parenting queer kids, those ripples can have a far reach and significant impact. Sara talks with special guest Jasmine Banks about the importance of nurturing a community committed to collective growth and support, because raising children is to actively participate in societal change, and the way we parent today directly influences the world our children will inherit tomorrow.
Special Guest: Jasmine Banks
Jasmine Banks (she/her) has more than 10 years of progressive advocacy, movement building, and organizing experience. She spent the last five years dedicated to leading an intervention campaign, UnKoch My Campus, addressing the impact of far-right billionaires leveraging their philanthropic donations in higher education to erode democracy. During the campaigns she organized multiple campuses, coalitions, and provided movement support to hundreds of students, educators, and community activists. Jasmine has traveled to a number of higher ed institutions to speak with students and faculty about donor transparency and academic freedom. She was most recently honored to give a keynote for the Higher Education division of the American Federation of Teachers. Jasmine is also a former licensed therapist, Chief Marketing Officer, and small business owner.
Links from the Show:
- Generation Common Good: https://generationcommongood.org/
- Parenting Is Political podcast: https://www.parentingispolitical.org/episodes
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Content Warning: this episode contains frank discussions of self-harm and suicidality.
This episode is a rerun and an increasingly important topic for today’s environment. At Mama Dragons we know the value of shame-free spaces where parents of LGBTQ+ kids can explore, learn, and grow. Building families and communities rooted in genuine support is an important part of creating healthy futures for our queer children. Today In the Den, Sara visits with creator, author, and speaker Heather Hester about parenting LGBTQ+ children, unlearning the biases of our past, and learning to embrace, empower, and love our queer kids more fully.
Special Guest: Heather Hester
Heather Hester is the creator and host of the podcast More Human. More Kind., founder of Chrysalis Mama, and author of Parenting with Pride: Unlearn Bias and Embrace, Empower, and Love Your LGBTQ+ Teen. She is a speaker, writer, and fierce advocate helping parents, allies, and organizations move from confusion and fear to compassion and courageous action.
When her son came out as gay in 2017, it ignited a journey of unlearning, deep personal growth, and radical love. She quickly realized the need for more supportive, shame-free spaces for parents of LGBTQ+ kids and those seeking to become better allies. What began as a content-rich website and podcast has grown into a platform offering inclusive coaching, LGBTQ+ and Human-First consulting, and storytelling-driven workshops and talks.
Heather is married to the funniest guy she’s ever known and mom to their four extraordinary kids (two of whom are LGBTQ), and one super sassy mini Bernedoodle. She’s a weather nerd, a lover of indie bookstores and coffee shops, and a yogi who believes in the magic of connection and that belonging isn’t just a feeling—it’s a practice.
Links from the Show:
- Heather’s Podcast, More Human, More Kind: https://www.morehumanmorekind.com/
- Heather’s book: https://bookshop.org/p/books/parenting-with-pride-unlearn-bias-and-embrace-empower-and-love-your-lgbtq-teen-heather-hester/f658509f6a467cac?ean=9781641709125&next=t
- Chrysalis Mama on FB: https://www.facebook.com/chrysalismama
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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At the end of May, the Seattle LGBTQ+ Commission sent a letter to their mayor asking the city to declare a civil state of emergency in response to the growing number of transgender people and their families fleeing states with escalating anti-trans laws. Families are leaving homes, schools, jobs, churches, and entire support systems behind because remaining where they are no longer feels safe. A study from the Movement Advancement Project and the University of Chicago found that at least 400,000 transgender and gender nonconforming people have moved to another state since November 2024 because of anti-LGBTQ laws or political conditions. For years, many parents of trans kids have been sounding the alarm — telling stories of banned healthcare, hostile school policies, criminalization, fear, isolation, and the exhausting reality of fighting for your child’s right to exist openly and safely. What once felt unthinkable is now shaping where families can live, where children can go to school, and whether parents feel they can protect their kids at all. Today In the Den we talk about what it means when LGBTQ+ people become refugees within their own country. What happens to families forced to relocate in search of safety? What responsibilities do affirming cities and states have to those arriving in crisis? And what does it mean for the rest of us witnessing this moment unfold in real time?
Special Guest: Chris Curia
Chris Curia is Co-Chair of the Seattle LGBTQ Commission, an advisory board that provides guidance and recommendations to City leaders on issues affecting LGBTQ+ communities. Additionally, Chris supervises Crisis Care Responder teams as part of Seattle’s Community Assisted Response & Engagement (CARE) Department, the City’s third branch of public safety that delivers alternative first response to 911 calls with a mental health nexus. Chris brings years of clinical training and experience as a licensed mental health counselor to these roles, along with a passion for exploring innovative opportunities to prioritize mental healthcare equity and community-centered care for all Seattleites.
Special Guest: Jessa Davis
Jessa Davis (she/her) is Co-Chair of the Seattle LGBTQ Commission and Chair of its Community Outreach & Social Media Committee. She also serves as Board Secretary for Queer Power Alliance (QPA), where she chairs the Advocacy Committee, and as Board Secretary for Whole Washington. In these roles, she helps align community-driven advocacy with broader structural change efforts including in her work as Executive Director of the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-Monogamy (OPEN), which is a role she recently took on after founding and leading the Seattle Coalition for Family & Relationship Equity (SCFRE).
Links from the Show:
- Seattle LGBTQ+ Commission
- Jessa’s IG
- Jessa’s Website
- Study from Movement Advancement Project
- Join Mama Dragons
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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The moment your child says something that changes the story you thought you were living, time can seem to split in two. There’s the before — the assumptions, expectations, and dreams you carefully built — and then there’s the after, where love, fear, confusion, grief, joy, protectiveness, and possibility all arrive at once. For many parents of trans kids, that moment can feel overwhelming, not because they love their child any less, but because they suddenly realize they’re stepping into unfamiliar territory without a map. Today, we’re joined by Rebecca Minor, therapist, educator, coach, and author of the new book Raising Trans Kids: What to Expect When You Weren’t Expecting This. Sara and Rebecca talk about the emotional journey many parents experience when their child comes out as trans, the myths and misinformation families are navigating right now, and how parents can move from panic and uncertainty toward connection, confidence, and advocacy.
Special Guest: Rebecca Minor
Rebecca Minor, LICSW (she/they), is an internationally recognized gender specialist, therapist, educator, and author of the book Raising Trans Kids: What to Expect When You Weren’t Expecting This (Row House, Sept 2025). As a gender specialist, Rebecca partners with trans and gender nonconforming youth through their journey of becoming and serves as a guide to their parents in affirming it. With over 10,000 hours of experience working with trans and gender-expansive youth and their families, she’s helped parents move beyond fear and uncertainty to become confident, affirming advocates for their children. She is the founder of Prism Therapy Collective and serves as adjunct faculty at Boston University’s School of Social Work. Rebecca has been featured in The New York Times, Parents, The Bump, Health Magazine, Them, and The Trevor Project docuseries.
Links from the Show:
- Rebecca’s website
- Buy Rebecca’s Book Raising Trans Kids
- Rebecca’s Blog
- Join Mama Dragons today
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In conjunction with our recent episode on Canyon County Pride, we’re resharing this past episode with drag queen Cookie Pusss. Drag queens are living proof that courage can come in sequins, heels, and unapologetic self-expression. They show us every day that bravery isn’t just about facing danger—it’s about showing up fully as yourself, even when the world might not be ready for it, and that sometimes courage looks like meeting hate with humor, compassion, and a touch of glitter. Today In the Den Sara sits down with the one and only Cookie Pusss, whose video of her powerful and surprisingly tender exchange with an anti-LGBTQ Christian protester outside the Canyon County Pride Festival went viral earlier this year. What could have been just another confrontation turned into a moment of connection, curiosity, and radical grace that captured the Internet’s attention.
Special Guest: JD Hawley
JD Hawley, aka Cookie Pusss, is a performer and producer living in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is known for campy, irreverent drag and connecting with audiences on a more personal level. JD grew up in Arco, Idaho, and has been performing across the Pacific Northwest for over 5 years. His favorite topping of pizza is mushrooms.
Links From the Show:
- Find Cookie Pusss on IG: https://www.instagram.com/cookie.pusss?igsh=N2hpN2VycDc3ZmY=
- Find Cookie Pusss on TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@cookiepussss?_r=1&_t=ZT-91ZKl9xCUJC
- Watch the viral Pride interaction here: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKqMrrlyYIM/?igsh=MTlhdDF2OXR4YXRobg==
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Today In the Den, we’re talking about family—how it’s formed, how it’s nurtured, and how love can expand beyond the narrow definitions our culture sometimes tries to impose. For so many queer people and their loved ones, building a family can come with extra layers of hope, complexity, vulnerability, and resilience. Queer families have always existed. They have always found ways to create home, to build community, and to raise children surrounded by love—even when systems or institutions made that harder than it should have been. For many parents listening—whether you’re LGBTQ+, parenting LGBTQ+ kids, or simply trying to raise compassionate humans—today’s conversation invites us into a deeper understanding of what ethical, inclusive family-building can look like.
Special Guest: Donna Pope
Donna Pope is the host of the podcast Voices of Adoption. Donna brings years of experience and heartfelt storytelling to conversations about adoption, identity, ethics, and belonging. Donna shares a commitment to adoption practices that center compassion, agency, and honesty for everyone involved—adoptive families, birth parents, and adoptees alike.
Links from the Show:
- Voices of Adoption on Youtube
- Voices of Adoption podcast
- Voices of Adoption on IG
- Voices of Adoption on FB
- Join Mama Dragons today
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There’s something wonderful happening in small towns all across America, Pride festivals are on the rise offering rural communities a safe and welcoming celebration for the LGBTQ+ folks among them. In places where people assume everyone thinks the same, where visibility can come with real risk, and where showing up authentically sometimes feels like an act of courage in itself—these small town, community centered festivals are forging important spaces for belonging and offering a hometown alternative for the more corporate centered Pride festivals in larger cities. This week In the Den, Sara is joined by the organizers behind Canyon County Pride in Southwest Idaho—a Pride celebration that has become both a joyful gathering place and a lightning rod for controversy in the city of Nampa. In a region often painted with broad political brushstrokes, they’ve helped create something deeply local, deeply brave, and deeply needed: a Pride event where LGBTQ+ people, families, allies, and especially young people can see that they are not alone.
Special Guest: Tom (he/him)
Tom is co-founder and owner of HomeFound Boise, Idaho’s #1 LGBTQ+ owned and operated real estate team. Tom is the President and co-founder of Canyon County Pride, which started as a result of his passion to elevate and celebrate diversity throughout Idaho. Tom is featured in the Washington Post, Inman News, and Realtor Magazine as a 30 Under 30 Class of 2024. Most recently, Tom is the recipient of the Drew Griffin Beacon of Light award for outstanding community involvement.
Special Guest: Van (they/them)
Van is a passionate community leader, event organizer, and advocate dedicated to creating inclusive spaces for LGBTQ+ individuals in Canyon County. As a founder of CCP Van has played a vital role in bringing together thousands of people to celebrate diversity, foster connections, and uplift the local queer community. With a strong background in community building and a service oriented career, Van was able to cultivate relationships with local business partners and individuals as well as multiple marketing efforts that have helped Canyon County Pride grow into a thriving annual event. Their expertise ensures that each Pride celebration is impactful, engaging, and accessible to ALL. Beyond Pride, Van is committed to building long-term support networks for LGBTQ+ individuals and advocating for spaces where everyone feels safe, valued, and empowered.
Links from the Show:
- Video of Cookie Puss befriending a Pride protester
- Canyon County Pride on FB
- Canyon County Pride on IG
- Join Mama Dragons today
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Perhaps some of our listeners were cheerleaders and already know the magic: the adrenaline of a routine, the trust it takes to lift and be lifted, the deep bonds that form on a squad. For others, cheerleading might bring up a story shaped by stereotypes, fueled by movies and media, by a sense that this was a space with very specific rules about who belonged and who didn’t. Maybe you saw a world that could feel exclusive, gendered, and out of reach. But, something is shifting. From college sidelines to professional arenas, we’re seeing more openly LGBTQ+ athletes—gay, trans, and nonbinary cheerleaders—showing up, taking space, and changing what cheer looks like from the inside out. The image of who gets to be strong, spirited, and celebrated in this sport is expanding in real time, and today’s guests are part of that transformation. In this episode of In the Den, we’re joined by leaders from the Pride Cheerleading Association—an organization that’s not just opening doors, but reimagining the whole structure of the sport. They’re building inclusive cheer spaces for adults of all ages where queer and trans athletes don’t have to fit into outdated roles to belong.
Special Guest: Hayley Digerdissen
Hayley Digerdissen joined the Pride Cheerleading Association (PCA) Board of Directors in 2022 and accepted the role of President in 2023. Although she puts little stock in the title because she appreciates just how much the PCA Board accomplishes as a collective entity, she is committed to helping PCA grow in its impact, outreach, value, wellness, and kindness in whatever ways she can until the next clearly superior successor takes over.
Special Guest: Jayden Feldman–Co-chair of PCA DEI–Cheer Colorado.
Jayden is a manager, personal trainer, and advocate who believes that no one should have to walk their path alone. As a transgender man who began his transition at 14, he credits his resilience to his parents.
Special Guest: Sara Toogood
Sara Toogood is the Secretary of the Board for the Pride Cheerleading Association and one of its Founding Directors. She also serves as PCA’s Marketing Chair and PCA’s Delegate to the Federation of Gay Games. She is also a mom of two elementary school children.
Special Guest: Alex Romo
Alex Romo, Sacramento Cheer Elite, has been cheering since the age of 15. What began as a love for the sport became a path to community, purpose, and self-discovery. As a Mexican gay cisgender man, he knows how powerful it is to feel seen, affirmed, and accepted.
Links from the Show:
- The Pride Cheerleading Association
- Start a team
- Find PCA events
- Join Mama Dragons today
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Even as the headlines keep returning to trans athletes—who gets to play, who gets excluded, and who gets to decide—there’s another story unfolding on fields and courts across the country. A quieter one. A more human one. A story about belonging. Beyond the legislation and the debates, there are real kids just trying to play the sports they love—and real coaches shaping what those spaces feel like. Today’s guest is Kaig Lightner, a trans soccer coach and founder of Portland Community Football Club—a club that is reimagining youth sports by centering access, equity, and radical inclusion. His teams aren’t divided by gender. They’re built around skill, community, and the belief that every kid deserves a place to belong. In this conversation, we explore what it means to coach beyond the binary, to challenge the systems that keep so many kids out of the game, and to imagine a future where sports aren’t a battleground for identity—but a place where every young person can thrive. Because maybe the real question isn’t whether trans athletes belong–it’s what becomes possible when we finally act like they do.
Special Guest: Kaig Lightner
Kaig Lightner (he/him) is a coach, educator, and inclusion strategist with over two decades of experience at the intersection of youth sports, social work, and LGBTQ+ advocacy. As a USSF National ‘C’ Level licensed soccer coach with 30 years of coaching experience and a social worker since 2005, Kaig brings a unique lens to his work—one that blends technical coaching knowledge with a deep understanding of systemic oppression and its impact on marginalized communities. In 2013, Kaig founded Portland Community Football Club, a nonprofit soccer club providing access to competitive soccer for low-income, immigrant, refugee and LGBTQ+ youth. His approach to leadership is grounded in trauma-informed care, emotional intelligence, and a commitment to breaking down complex concepts—whether in the classroom, on the field, or in workshops focused on gender inclusion and equity. Kaig has been speaking publicly about LGBTQ+ inclusion in sports since 2006, drawing from his lived experience as a queer, trans man to educate others about the limitations of binary gender systems and the importance of inclusive environments. In 2017 he founded Quantum Gender to provide professional consulting and education on these topics. He is also a former graduate-level social work professor and the creator of the YouTube series Intoxicating Privilege, which explores the intersections of race, gender, and privilege through a personal and reflective lens.
Links from the Show:
- Find Portland Community Football Club
- Join Mama Dragons today
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Imagine belonging to a faith that is fighting to keep you out—and refusing to leave. Some of you in our Mama Dragons community know this experience well. Some of you are still living it, loving your families and your traditions while also working, every day, to make change from within. That tension—the push and pull between belonging and exclusion—is not unique to any one faith. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by Miryam Kabakov, a national leader who has spent more than three decades walking alongside LGBTQ+ people in Orthodox communities. She is the Executive Director and co-founder of Eshel, an organization that provides support, resources, and community for LGBTQ+ Orthodox individuals and their families—and is helping to quietly, steadily shift what’s possible from the inside. Sara and Miryam talk about what it means to stay in a tradition that doesn’t always make room for you, how families navigate love and religious commitment, and why change—especially in deeply traditional spaces—often begins with small, brave acts of connection.
Special Guest: Miryam Kabakov
Miryam Kabakov is a national leader who has worked for more than three decades on the inclusion of LGTBQ+ individuals in the Orthodox world. Miryam is Executive Director and co-founder of Eshel, a national organization that supports LGBTQ+ Orthodox individuals and their families. Prior to being a leader at Eshel, Miryam was the New York and National Program Director of AVODAH: The Jewish Service Corps, Director of LGBT programming at the JCC Manhattan, Social Worker at West Side Federation for Senior and Supportive Housing, and was the first social worker at Footsteps. Miryam received her MSW from the Wurzweiler School of Social Work. She also received a certificate in fundraising from the University of St. Thomas and a certificate in program evaluation from the University of Washington, and has a background in informal Jewish education from Brandeis University. She founded the New York Orthodykes, a support group for lesbian, bisexual and transgender Orthodox women, and is the editor of Keep Your Wives Away From Them: Orthodox Women, Unorthodox Desires (North Atlantic Books, May 2010), a collection of writings about the challenges and joys of LBT Orthodox Jews and winner of the Golden Crown Literary Award.
Links from the Show:
- Find Eshel online
- Eshel’s Calendar of Events
- Join Mama Dragons today
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We know that one of the most powerful things we can do as parents is raise kids who know who they are, who treat others with dignity, and who have the courage to live out loud. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by author, educator, and speaker Kevin Cripe, who spent 27 years as an elementary school teacher helping young people—many of whom felt overlooked or underestimated—discover confidence, identity, and a sense of possibility. Through his work in the classroom, his nationally recognized chess program, and his children’s books—including stories like Princess Max, which gently but powerfully explores gender expression and self-acceptance—Kevin invites us to rethink the messages kids receive about who they’re allowed to be. In today’s episode, Sara and Kevin discuss how the environments we create at home, in schools, and in our communities can either silence kids or help them shine, and they explore what it looks like to raise children who not only embrace their own identities, but make space for others to do the same.
Guest Speaker: Kevin Cripe
Kevin Cripe is a motivational speaker, author, and educator with over 27 years of experience inspiring students, teachers, and communities. Today, Kevin shares his passion for empowerment and empathy through keynote presentations for schools, parent organizations, churches, and community groups.
Links from the Show:
- Kevin’s website
- Article about Princess Max
- Find Princess Max here
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Lack of representation is one of the biggest issues facing the LGBTQ+ outdoors community. Queer adventurers don’t often see themselves represented in the marketing campaigns and media narratives of mainstream brands and companies, but queer people are out on the roads and trails doing awesome things outside every day, and today’s guest is forging the trail for LGBTQ+ representation in the outdoor adventure world with determination and infectious joy. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by national parks expert and endurance athlete Mikah Meyer to talk about a journey that shaped him, the friendships that sustained him, and the vision he’s building for a world where every person can step outside—into nature, into community, into themselves—and know they belong.
Special Guest: Mikah Meyer
Called a "professional road tripper" by REI, Mikah's 3-year, world record road trip to all 419 U.S. National Park Service sites made him the first to experience all federal parks in a single journey. He's continued that passion in the 2020s with the creation of the Outside Safe Space Program, which provides allies a simple way of making The Great Outdoors more accessible for LGBTQ+ people. Since its launch in 2020 with a Run Across Minnesota, it has sold over 100,000 symbols, become carried by REI stores nationwide, and Mikah has raised awareness for the OSS Program through a Run Across Mississippi, Run Across Nebraska, Bike Across Oregon, and other "Across" projects. The symbol's creation has helped Mikah consult major brands on the design and implementation of their first Pride products, and spawned workshops, including keynote speaking for Kansas City Design Week, about inclusive marketing to the $1+ trillion dollar LGBTQ+ purchasing power community in the United States, and beyond.
Links from the Show:
- More on Theodore Roosevelt
- Buck Island
- Outside Safe Spaces Logo Gear
- Canyon Chorus Documentary
- Join Mama Dragons today
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State laws across the country, and now even federal policies, increasingly target transgender people and LGBTQ people more broadly. Lifesaving, necessary gender-affirming care is being restricted or criminalized. Discriminatory policies and legislation, such as proper identity document bans, restrictions on participation in sports, and “sex definition” laws that police public restrooms, are attacking people in their day-to-day lives. What people may not realize, is that every one of these laws and policies affects intersex people, too, and that is why organizations like interACT are so important. From education to support, interACT is working to affirm trans and intersex folks in the fight to access lifesaving, necessary care. Today In the Den, we’ll cover some important basic information that will explain intersex conditions, and we’ll talk about how we can better support and affirm the intersex folks in our lives and in our country.
Special Guest: Bria Brown-King
Bria Brown-King (They/She) is a Black, queer, non-binary, and intersex person. Bria is the Associate Executive Director at interACT: Advocates for Intersex Youth. Bria got their start in intersex advocacy in 2018 as an interACT Youth Advocate. In 2019, they became the first openly intersex person to speak about intersex issues on the steps of the Supreme Court. In their current role, Bria facilitates education on intersex issues, works to close the gap in intersex-affirming research and data collection, and serves on multiple advisory boards, representing intersex people nationally and internationally.
Special Guest: Dr. Bonnie Scranton
Dr. Scraton is a licensed clinical social worker, AASECT-certified sex therapist and sexual health educator, and an assistant professor of social work at Central Connecticut State University. She maintains a private practice and serves on a multidisciplinary team at Connecticut Children’s Medical Center, where she supports children with variations in sex characteristics and their families. Motivated by both her clinical work and her lived experience as the parent of a child with an intersex variation, Bonnie's doctoral research at the University of Pennsylvania resulted in the development of Project LISTEN, a peer support and empowerment program for parents newly learning about their child’s variation. The program is designed to provide information, connection, and support for parents and caregivers, helping families ensure children grow up with agency and ownership over their bodies and medical decisions.
Links from the Show:
- Find the interACT website here
- Intersex Definitions here
- Intersex FAQ here
- Join Mama Dragons today
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The Supreme Court is currently considering two major cases brought by West Virginia and Idaho which address state-level bans on transgender female students playing on girls' school sports teams. Together, these cases could determine whether states can legally exclude trans athletes from school sports nationwide. Politicians and pundits argue about fairness, biology, and the future of women’s sports, but far too often the voices of transgender athletes themselves get lost in the noise. That’s exactly what Anna Baeth, Ellie Roscher, and Chris Mosier are trying to change. Ellie and Chris join Sarato discuss their new and groundbreaking book Fair Game, which breaks down the myths being told through personal interviews with trans athletes and includes an informative look at the research, history, and politics of gender in sports. They explore the deeper question underneath it all: what do we really mean when we talk about fairness, and why does sports participation matter—not just for elite athletes, but for every kid who simply wants to play on a team, move their body, and belong.
Special Guest: Ellie Roscher
Ellie Roscher is the author of Fair Game, Remarkable Rose, The Embodied Path, 12 Tiny Things, Play Like a Girl and How Coffee Saved My Life. Ellie teaches writing and yoga in Minneapolis. She was a two-sport college athlete, competing in gymnastics and softball, and went on to coach both at the rec, club, and high school level. Ellie holds an MFA in Writing from Sarah Lawrence College and an MA in Theology from Luther Seminary.
Special Guest: Chris Mosier
Chris Mosier is a trailblazing athlete, coach, and founder of TransAthlete.com, the go-to resource on transgender inclusion in sports. He made history as the first openly trans man on a U.S. Men’s National Team and helped change International Olympic Committee policy for trans athletes. A Nike-sponsored athlete, Chris is a five-time national champion, and relentless advocate for trans rights. When not training and competing, he mentors transgender and nonbinary athletes around the globe, living out his motto of “be who you needed when you were younger.”
Links from the Show:
- Buy Fair Game here
- Ellie’s Website
- Find Ellie on IG
- Dr. Baeth’s Website
- Ellie’s Website
- Chris’s Website
- Dr. Baeth on IG
- Find Chris on IG
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Research indicates that autistic individuals are more likely to identify as transgender or gender diverse compared to the general population. Studies show that people who do not identify with the sex assigned at birth are more likely to be autistic than cisgender individuals. This overlap between autism and gender diversity may be confusing to some parents.. Parenting a child who is gender diverse and autistic can feel complex, and supporting them may at times feel overwhelming, so we’re going to get into the complexity in today’s episode. We’ve invited Dr. Theresa Lyons, international autism educator, to share her unique blend of science and real-world experience to try to give our listeners clarity, confidence, and a roadmap to better supporting their autistic children.
Special Guest: Dr. Theresa Lyons
Dr. Lyons is an international autism educator, Ivy League scientist, and autism parent. She’s the founder and CEO of Navigating AWEtism, a groundbreaking platform that transforms the overwhelming complexity of autism science into clear, actionable steps for families. With a Ph.D. from Yale and a deeply personal mission, Dr. Lyons has worked with parents in over 21 countries, bringing evidence-based strategies that change lives. She shares her unique blend of rigorous science and real-world experience while giving parents what they’ve never had before: clarity, confidence, and a roadmap for progress.
Links from the Show:
- Navigating Awetism on YouTube
- Navigating Awetism on IG
- Navigating Awetism on FB
- Find Theresa on LinkedIn
- Navigating Awetism on TikTok
- Navigating Awetism website
- Awestism.net
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Every news cycle lately brings yet another headline about transgender people and their families, whether it's the inflammatory remarks during the State of the Union or the recent invalidation of driver's licenses in Kansas, or any number of other recent court cases. These stories are showing up across the country and creating confusion and fear and a whole lot of questions for our families. So today In the Den, we're taking some time to pause, to break it all down, to breathe together, and to talk about what's happening in the news right now, what these developments mean, why they matter, and how we can all stay grounded and informed in the middle of it all. Joining Sara is special guest and policy strategist Sam Ames.
Special Guest: Sam Ames
Sam Ames (they/he) is a legal and policy strategist with 15 years of leadership experience in the LGBTQI+ movement. Sam served in the Biden-Harris Administration as Chief of Staff in the Department of Education Office for Civil Rights and Senior Advisor in the Department of Health and Human Services Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration. Sam began their legal career as a staff attorney at the National Center for Lesbian Rights, working on impact litigation cases involving marriage equality, employment discrimination, and family law, and in 2013 founded the Born Perfect Campaign, a national effort to end anti-LGBTQI+ conversion therapy.
Links from the Show:
- Find Sam’s Substack here
- Born Perfect
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Accessing best-practice gender-affirming care for transgender youth is becoming increasingly challenging: 27 states have passed laws banning or restricting care, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld these bans in the Skrmetti v. L.W. case, and the current Administration has pursued a relentless campaign attacking access. As a result, thousands of transgender youth and their families are being forced to try to find new healthcare providers, travel extreme distances, and take on significant expenses just to get the care they need. Today In the Den, we’ll talk with Amanda Keller from The Trans Youth Emergency Project (TYEP), a program that was created to help families navigate this complex and exhausting maze, offering logistical and financial support.
Special Guest: Amanda Keller
Amanda Keller is a Southern LGBTQIA movement leader working at the intersection of strategy, equity, and liberation. As Manager of Strategic Partnerships at the Campaign for Southern Equality, she is helping lead efforts to Meet the Moment, mobilizing resources, forging powerful cross-sector partnerships, and advancing equity across race, gender, and class in a region where the stakes for LGBTQIA people could not be higher. With more than 16 years of nonprofit leadership, Amanda has built institutions and movements that center those most often pushed to the margins. As the Founding Director of the Magic City Acceptance Center in Birmingham, Alabama, she grew a grassroots vision into a statewide hub serving thousands of LGBTQIA youth, families, and community members, expanding access to affirming services, leadership development, and community power across Alabama. Her work spans youth development, HIV advocacy, public policy engagement, and cultural organizing, grounded in a clear belief: the South is not a lost cause — it is a place of courage, resilience, and possibility. Her career is defined by one throughline, ensuring that where you live does not determine whether you are safe, affirmed, or free.
Links from the Show:
- Find the Trans Youth Emergency Project here
- Join TYEP’s Parent Support Group
- Volunteer with Campaign for Southern Equality
- Listen to the Trans Cookout Podcast
- Supportive Schools Program
- Send a Message of Support to Trans Youth
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Families with trans and non-binary kids are facing bans on bathroom use, bans on sports participation, bans on affirming pronoun use in schools, bans on use of chosen names, and even bans on life-saving medical care for their trans children. Those of us with trans family members find ourselves in, what often feels like, an impossible situation of trying to figure out how we can possibly protect our children from the worst of the harm. Some families are considering moving states, or even leaving the United States, to escape anti-trans legislation and to seek safer, more supportive environments for their children. Today In the Den, we’re hosting a conversation with Suzy and Debi, two moms with families who have done just that–picked up and moved countries in order to access gender affirming care, safety in schools, and to find a less overall hostile climate for their queer children.
Special Guest: Suzanne Solomon
Suzanne Solomon, her husband, and their son, lived in the Dallas area of Texas, where she was a professional opera singer. She has joined protests from the Women’s March to Black Lives Matter to Pride and more, participated in letter writing campaigns, called representatives, campaigned for Beto O’Rourke, attended ACLU of Texas events to help counter proposed legislation. Mama Dragons has been a huge resource, and a source of comfort and community. Getting out of the country is incredibly difficult and expensive, and the Solomons owe a lot to family, fellow US emigrants, and friends who helped them check every box on their journey from the US to Finland.
Special Guest: Debi Jackson
Debi is a longtime advocate for transgender youth and LGBTQ+ inclusion, known for her compassionate storytelling and public education efforts. She became an activist in 2014 when a speech about her child Avery’s gender journey went viral, and she’s been speaking out ever since to help other families feel less alone. Avery later appeared on the cover of National Geographic’s “Gender Revolution” issue — an iconic moment that brought global visibility but also intense backlash. In response to the growing wave of anti-trans legislation and public hostility in the U.S., Debi and her family made the difficult decision to move to Europe. Now, she shares her experiences as a parent, advocate, and expat to highlight the real-life impact of transphobia and the importance of finding and building affirming community wherever you are.
Links from the Show:
- Anne Health
- Gender GP
- Transgender Map
- Mexico Transgender Center
- Debi’s Website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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We doubt anyone listening to this podcast will be surprised to hear that transgender folks face unique challenges, including social stigma, bullying, and family rejection. Even if we are doing our best as parents to support and love our trans children, most of us are not trans ourselves, and so we can’t fully understand the particular difficulties that our children will face in their lives. And that is where organizations like Trans Mentor Project come in. Trans Mentor Project is a national virtual mentoring program that pairs trans/nonbinary mentees with trans/nonbinary adult mentors. Joining us In the Den from TMP are Kyle and Max. Max is currently a mentor with TMP and Kyle has been part of TMP as both a mentee and an intern. Together, they’ll be able to tell us more about the program and how we can help get our trans kiddos involved.
Special Guest: Kyle
Kyle is a designer and creative strategist whose work centers storytelling and critical inquiry. With a background in education, arts-based research, and trauma-aware peer support, Kyle designs experiences that cultivate connection, expression, and shared meaning. At TMP, Kyle helps shape programs and strategies that empower trans young people—designing zines and community experiences that center their voices, and leading outreach efforts across Southern California. At his core, Kyle is building worlds where people feel valued, welcomed, and free to be who they are.
Special Guest: Max
Max is a multidisciplinary theatre artist living in New York City. He has mentored with TMP since 2023. He frequently volunteers with PFLAG NYC's Safe Schools program, visiting middle and high school classes throughout the city to speak about his personal identity as a gay trans man, combat anti-trans disinformation, and promote safety and inclusion in NYC schools. Max is also one half of the producing team behind "Let’s Hear It For the Boys: A Transmasc Cabaret," an annual variety show which features an entirely transmasculine and trans man cast, band, creative team and ASL interpreter team and showcases new work by transmasc writers.
Links from the Show:
- Learn More About TMP
- Submit art for zines by emailing TMP
- Join Mama Dragons Today
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Life can be hard, especially for our queer children. They often face unique obstacles, encounter discrimination, and endure marginalization in their lives and in their pursuits of happiness. Resilience helps our children (and us) cope with life's challenges and setbacks, allowing folks to recover and grow stronger from difficult experiences. Resilience fosters emotional regulation, optimism, and a strong support network, which are essential for maintaining mental well-being and overall life satisfaction. Joining us In the Den is Dr. Kate Lund, a licensed psychologist, Tedx Speaker, author of Stepping Away the Keys to Resilient Parenting, and an expert on the topic of resilience. Dr. Kate insists that resilience does not have to be complicated and that we all are capable of living our best lives, regardless of our setbacks.
Special Guest: Dr. Kate Lund
Dr. Kate Lund is a clinical psychologist, keynote speaker, published author, and resilience expert dedicated to helping individuals and families thrive within their own unique contexts. With advanced training from three Harvard-affiliated hospitals and decades of experience in clinical practice, Dr. Lund specializes in emotional intelligence, stress resilience, and sustainable well-being for parents, athletes, and high performers. She is the author of Bounce: Help Your Child Build Resilience and Thrive in School, Sports, and Life and Step Away: The Keys to Resilient Parenting. Dr. Lund also hosts Resilient Parenting with Dr. Kate, a podcast that explores the science and lived experience of resilience through conversations with parents, educators, clinicians, and leaders. Known for her relatable, evidence-based approach, Dr. Lund blends clinical expertise with personal insight as the mother of twin boys and while working as a volunteer with her dog Wally as part of the animal assisted therapy program at Seattle Children’s Hospital. Whether on stage, in session, or on the air, she empowers people to step away from overwhelm and step into clarity, connection, and confidence.
Links from the Show:
- Kate’s Book Step Away
- Kate Book Bounce
- Kate’s Website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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The Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s recent Youth Report shows that more than 46 percent of LGBTQ+ youth, including almost 55 percent of transgender and gender-expansive youth, feel unsafe in at least one school setting. And despite the pervasiveness of school bullying, many teachers and staff remain unaware — or are explicitly unhelpful when informed. This is why HRC’s Welcoming Schools resources and professional development training, including National Day of Reading events, are so vital to meeting the needs of LGBTQ+ students today. This year’s National Day of Reading is happening on February 27th, and today In the Den we are joined by the HRC Foundation's Welcoming Schools Sr Director Cheryl Greene to tell us more about this event and how we can get involved.
Special Guest: Cheryl Greene
Cheryl is the Vice President of School and Youth Programming at the Human Rights Campaign. She has spent her career in education and is passionate about providing educators and school leaders with the tools to create LGBTQ+ and gender inclusive classrooms where all children can thrive. She spent 20 years as a middle school teacher, district bullying prevention coordinator, and as an adjunct professor before turning her talents to lead the broader work of preventing bias-based bullying nationwide. Cheryl leads the most comprehensive, bias-based bullying prevention program in the nation specifically designed for youth serving professionals impacting over 10.5 million students. She also oversees a robust school advocacy program designed to empower local advocates to organize and impact school boards and district policy to positively impact LGBTQ+ youth and families. In her spare time, Cheryl enjoys spending time with her spoiled Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, her wife, and three amazing grandchildren.
Links from the Show:
- HRC LGBTQ Youth Report
- Learn More About HRC’s Day of Reading
- Welcoming School Resource List
- Request a Welcoming School Training
- Pledge to Participate in the Day of Reading
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Every day seems to bring another headline, or another policy, another attempt to make trans lives disappear altogether. As Mama Dragons, we know this fear intimately. We carry it in our bodies, even as we keep showing up for our kids and our communities. Today In the Den, Sara sits down with Dru Levasseur, an openly trans attorney, nationally recognized advocate, and a leader in the fight for trans rights for more than 25 years, to discuss what it really means to survive transphobia—not just legally or politically, but emotionally, spiritually, and collectively. It’s a conversation about what the power of authenticity looks like and feels like in these times and includes some practical strategies for staying grounded and strong amid unrelenting attacks.
Special Guest: Dru Levasseur
M. Dru Levasseur, Esq. is a high-energy presenter, leading advisor, and seasoned strategist with extensive experience in law, diversity & inclusion, advocacy, policy, and
philanthropy. A recognized leader in the LGBTQ+ equality movement for more than 25
years, he now leads his own coaching and consulting practice, Dru Levasseur Consulting , LLC. He previously served as the Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion for the National LGBTQ+ Bar, creating and leading its DEI Consulting Practice, the first LGBTQ+ inclusion coaching and consulting program designed specifically to enable the implementation of best practice standards for LGBTQ+ equity in the legal profession. Dru directed Lambda Legal's Transgender Rights Project from 2009 to 2019, attending the first transgender policy meeting at the White House in 2011, and serving as counsel in landmark impact litigation cases and amicus briefs in federal courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. He co-founded a national trans-led nonprofit, the Jim Collins Foundation, and currently serves alongside Gloria Steinem and other notable feminists as a board member for the ERA Coalition and Fund for Women's Equality. A national and international media spokesperson, Dru contributed the chapter, “Your Authenticity is Your Power: Tales of a Trans Lawyer” in the 2023 book, Surviving Transphobia. Harvard Law School selected him as a Wasserstein Fellow. He is admitted in New York, Georgia, D.C., and Massachusetts.
Links from the Show:
- Surviving Transphobia is available here.
- Dru’s website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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What happens when an object that once felt magical becomes a symbol of harm—and then is transformed into an act of remembrance? Today’s conversation In the Den invites us to look closely, to move past what we think we see, and to sit with art that refuses to let us look away. Our guest is Tai Ericson, an artist known for transforming the familiar into the unexpected. Tai’s current project is as bold as it is devastating: portraits of murdered trans people created from the pages of Harry Potter books. The author of that series has, for years, contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. In Tai’s hands, those pages are no longer a vessel for that harm. They are cut, reassembled, and transformed—destroying the work itself and replacing it with a memorial to someone whose life was taken by the very culture it helped foster. This is a conversation about art as resistance, grief as truth-telling, and what it means to honor trans lives—not abstractly, but by name, by face, and by story.
Special Guest: Tai Ericson
Tai Ericson is a Vermont-based artist transforming the familiar into the unexpected. By amassing everyday objects, often in monumental quantities, he crafts objects that tell one story from afar, then reveal their true identity up close. Tai's current project is creating portraits of murdered trans people using the pages of Harry Potter books. The author has contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. The portrait destroys her work, replacing it with a memorial to someone that lost their life to the culture she fosters.
Links from the Show:
- Tai’s website
- Find Tai on IG
- Glaad accountability account of JK Rowling
- Join Mama Dragons today
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
What happens when an object that once felt magical becomes a symbol of harm—and then is transformed into an act of remembrance? Today’s conversation In the Den invites us to look closely, to move past what we think we see, and to sit with art that refuses to let us look away. Our guest is Tai Ericson, an artist known for transforming the familiar into the unexpected. Tai’s current project is as bold as it is devastating: portraits of murdered trans people created from the pages of Harry Potter books. The author of that series has, for years, contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. In Tai’s hands, those pages are no longer a vessel for that harm. They are cut, reassembled, and transformed—destroying the work itself and replacing it with a memorial to someone whose life was taken by the very culture it helped foster. This is a conversation about art as resistance, grief as truth-telling, and what it means to honor trans lives—not abstractly, but by name, by face, and by story.
Special Guest: Tai Ericson
Tai Ericson is a Vermont-based artist transforming the familiar into the unexpected. By amassing everyday objects, often in monumental quantities, he crafts objects that tell one story from afar, then reveal their true identity up close. Tai's current project is creating portraits of murdered trans people using the pages of Harry Potter books. The aut
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Life and parenting often feels so fraught, so overwhelming, and so frustrating. We’re navigating unprecedented attacks on queer and trans folks and youth. Of course, as parents, we stay vigilant, trying to anticipate what might come next so we can support and protect our kids. But even as we hunt for answers to all our practical questions, we still need something else to keep us going: sources of hope, grounding, and inspiration. Today, we get to offer you just that through the incredible work of BAGLY, the Boston Alliance of LGBTQ+ Youth—a youth-led, adult-supported organization that has spent nearly fifty years building safe spaces, affirming identities, and lifting up queer and trans young people. For half a century, BAGLY has been a beacon of belonging, envisioning a future where LGBTQ+ youth not only survive, but shine, shaping Boston and far beyond
Special Guest: Elliott-Timothy Viridian
Elliott-Timothy Viridian is an educator, writer, poet, and essayist from the greater US South. Viridian has written extensively about his upbringing, black feminist politics, and black masculinities within and around the Southern Black tradition. Viridian has spoken and continues to speak across the country on queer issues & rights.
Special Guest: Evander Ragsdale
**Evander Ragsdale (he/they) is a freshman at Skidmore College studying English. He has been with BAGLY for over a year and spends his free time writing and playing ultimate frisbee.
Special Guest: Kris Cho**
Kris Cho (any/all) is a queer Korean American poet and educator hailing from Mid-Missouri. They currently work at BAGLY as the Youth Leadership and Advocacy Coordinator. Prior to BAGLY, Kris worked as a Bargaining and Campaign Strategy Coordinator for the Massachusetts Teachers Association and a Slam Poetry Coach at John D. O'Bryant School for Mathematics and Science, where they are currently a poet-in-residence. They are a 2023 Best of the Net nominee, a 2024 RWW Poetry Fellow, and 2025 Periplus Fellow. Their debut chapbook Chosun Cowboy (Abode Press) will be published in 2026.
Links from the Show:
- Bagly website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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There are days when fear and grief sit heavy in our chests. The headlines, the laws, the hateful rhetoric–it can all make us wonder how to protect our children and queer loved ones. So many of us, parents and queer folks, are feeling so drained, perhaps sometimes teetering on the edge of despair. But, sometimes what we need most aren’t just plans or protests, but blessings—words that can be a balm, a reminder of queer beauty, wholeness, and love when queer and trans bodies and identities are under unprecedented attack; in this world that so often tries to break us. A new book has emerged that is not just relevant—but necessary. It’s called GlitterBlessed: Already Whole, Already Holy—a vibrant collection of blessings, poems, and spells crafted by and for queer and trans people. It’s a book to help all of us conjure courage, summon joy, and banish shame, a book that insists queerness isn’t something to be explained or defended—it’s already divine. Today In the Den, Sara meets with a couple of the creators and contributors of this book.
Special Guest: Rev. Sean Neil-Barron
Rev. Sean Neil-Barron is a queer minister, married, foster parent who lives and works in Northern Colorado and whose work centers on the proclaiming of the sacredness of every queer and trans person.
Special Guest: Silen Wellington
Silen Wellington is a sculptor of sound, an artist, storyteller, witch, and genderqueer shapeshifter, who writes about bodies as holy places of change.
Links from the Show:
- Silen’s website
- Glitter Blessed Website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Everywhere we look, the backlash against trans lives is growing louder. We’re facing policies targeting healthcare, book bans erasing our stories, coordinated campaigns to sow fear and confusion. This backlash isn’t happening in isolation, though. It’s part of a much larger cultural and political force determined to roll back gender justice for all of us. Today In the Den, Sara and acclaimed policy analyst Julie Kohler dig into what’s beneath the backlash across America—how it formed, why it’s intensifying now, and how it’s shaping our politics, our families, and our public life. Julie weaves research, history, and storytelling to show the connective tissue between attacks on the trans community, assaults on reproductive freedom, and attempts to reassert rigid gender norms.
**Special Guest: Julie Kohler
Julie Kohler is an acclaimed writer whose work has appeared in CNN, The Washington Post, MSNBC, The Daily Beast*, and many other outlets. She is also the co-creator, executive producer, and host of the Wonder Media Network podcast* White Picket Fence*. The podcast has won multiple awards, including a 2025 Webby Award for Best News & Politics (Limited Series & Special) Podcast and a 2024 Signal Award for Best News & Politics Podcast. Julie has two decades of experience working in philanthropy, advocacy, and higher education and is a highly sought out speaker on a variety of topics pertaining to gender justice, policy, and politics. She is the president of BMK Consulting, a philanthropic and nonprofit strategy consulting firm, and a Senior Advisor at the New School's Institute for Race, Power and Political Economy. Previously, she served as Senior Vice President and Managing Director for the Democracy Alliance, a progressive donor network, and as a fellow in residence at the National Women's Law Center. She has served on the boards of many organizations working to strengthen democracy, including, currently, the* Pipeline Fund**. She has a Ph.D. in family social science from the University of Minnesota and lives in Washington, DC with her family.
Links from the Show:
- Julie’s podcast White Picket Fence
- Julie’s website
- Join Mama Dragons today
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In October, Mama Dragons was invited to participate in an annual event in Hollywood called “A Day of Unreasonable Conversation.” This day-long event is an invitation-only gathering of our culture’s most influential storytellers — writers, producers, content creators, and executives — with activists, thought leaders, and individuals with lived experience. The gathering is framed around a simple but urgent question: “In the face of today’s biggest challenges, how can storytelling move us forward?” Mama Dragon Shauna Jones was part of a panel discussion on trans rights which asked, “What if we trusted our kids?” Today In the Den, Sara talks with Shauna and Mama Dragons Executive Director Liz Welch about their experience at the event and what it can mean to trust our children when they tell us who they are.
Special Guest: Liz Welch
Liz has extensive advocacy and lobbying experience in LGBTQ+ and religious freedom at the federal, state, and local levels. While at the ACLU, Liz led a National Faith Coalition that supported efforts to advance protections for LGBTQ+ communities while preserving the rights of faith communities. She also co-facilitated a transgender education and advocacy project, working to train and support trans activists in advocating for their rights across the country. Additionally, Liz is a trained mediator, experienced facilitator, and event coordinator for everything from hyper-local Pride events to coordinating the rallies at the Supreme Court of the United States for the biggest cases of our time. She is the proud mother to Mariah, who is a public defender and an avid baker.
Special Guest: Shauna Jones
Shauna Jones grew up in a small, conservative potato farming town in Idaho in a devoutly religious Mormon family. When Shauna's oldest child came out as bisexual and transgender as a teenager, her worldview was challenged and changed. She joined Mama Dragons in 2015 and has been helping to create queer-affirming homes through LGBTQ+ parent education through the group ever since. Shauna loves gardening, running, and rainbows. She is a firm believer in the power of choosing kindness and love.
Links from the Show:
- Subscribe to the Fix the News Substack
- Learn More About A Day of Unreasonable Conversation
- Listen to Shauna’s Speech at the Supreme Court
- Listen to Shauna’s Unreasonable Day of Conversation panel
- Caitlin Seida’s Hope Is a Sewer Rat poem
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Today we’re inviting you to be part of some real talk with moms. Sara is joined In the Den by two other moms of trans kids, Melissa and Sarah, and together the three moms will share with you what’s on their hearts–the fears, the doubts, the anger and the joys–in hopes to offer you all some solidarity and connection. Because we know that being the mom of trans or queer kids right now can be really hard, but none of us are alone in the journey.
Special Guest: Melissa
Melissa is the mother of two wonderfully brilliant teen daughters. A 16 yo cisgender and 14 yo trans kiddo, currently living in a red state where gender affirming care is banned. Melissa works in healthcare which can be both a blessing and a curse when navigating the systems needed to keep her kids thriving. When not navigating the healthcare system, you can find her roaming the hills behind her home with her two fur babies and finding joy within nature (preferably with a backpack on her back).
Special Guest: Sarah
Rev. Sarah (she/they) lives with her family in the Southwest where she enjoys hiking and sunsets when she’s not working. They live in a multi generational household with her mom and 16 old, her spouse and their dog and cat. Sarah has worked as an organizer, an educator and now as a minister where she does all three!
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Many of us want the holiday season to be a time of connection and celebration, but this time of year can also be complicated. Family gatherings can come with unspoken tension, old dynamics resurface, expectations rise, and the pressure to “keep the peace” can collide with our deep desire to protect and affirm our kids. And for some, this season can bring loneliness, depression, or grief—not warmth. We know you’re navigating all of that. And you don’t have to do it alone. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by therapist David Zealy-Wright to talk honestly about what the holidays can stir up, how to prepare for tough conversations, how to set boundaries with love, how to care for ourselves while caring for our kids, and how to find moments of joy and grounding even in challenging spaces.
**Special Guest: David Zealy-Wright
David is a Licensed Professional Counselor (Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor), a Licensed Clinical Addictions Specialist, and a Clinical Supervisor Intern(Certified Clinical Supervisor). He graduated from Catawba Valley Community College in 2005 earning an Associate in Arts, Lenoir-Rhyne University in 2008 earning a BA in Psychology, and in 2010 an MA in Agency Counseling. He enjoys working with diverse populations, but specifically has experience with teens, adults and couples. His specialty areas include addiction, depression, anxiety, life changes, men’s issues, relationships, and LGBTQIA issues. As an addictions specialist, he believes that addiction is a disorder, not a moral failing. David is a native of Greensboro, North Carolina, but has lived in Hickory for over 23 years with his spouse.**
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons Today
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Over half of states have severely restricted or banned healthcare for trans kids, so many families find themselves having to cross state lines to get their kids the healthcare they need. But there is a group of unlikely heroes, dedicated to the belief that access to healthcare saves lives and that access to that care is a right. Elevated Access is a network of volunteer pilots who use their wings to protect bodily autonomy and dignity. Today, Sara talks with Mike Bonanza, the executive director and founder behind this quiet, radical form of care that is making the impossible possible—one flight at a time.
Links From the Show:
- Visit Elevated Access
- Get help from Elevated Access
- Get involved with Elevated Access
- Join Mama Dragons today
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Drag queens are living proof that courage can come in sequins, heels, and unapologetic self-expression. They show us every day that bravery isn’t just about facing danger—it’s about showing up fully as yourself, even when the world might not be ready for it, and that sometimes courage looks like meeting hate with humor, compassion, and a touch of glitter. Today In the Den Sara sits down with the one and only Cookie Pusss, whose video of her powerful and surprisingly tender exchange with an anti-LGBTQ Christian protester outside the Canyon County Pride Festival went viral earlier this year. What could have been just another confrontation turned into a moment of connection, curiosity, and radical grace that captured the Internet’s attention.
Special Guest: JD Hawley
JD Hawley, aka Cookie Pusss, is a performer and producer living in Salt Lake City, Utah, and is known for campy, irreverent drag and connecting with audiences on a more personal level. JD grew up in Arco, Idaho, and has been performing across the Pacific Northwest for over 5 years. His favorite topping of pizza is mushrooms.
Links From the Show:
- Find Cookie Pusss on IG
- Find Cookie Pusss on TT
- Watch the viral Pride interaction
- Join Mama Dragons
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Since the inauguration, the Trump administration has issued near-nonstop attacks on the trans community. From the first executive order declaring that “sex” will be defined strictly as male or female, fixed at birth; eliminating official recognition of transgender or non-binary identities on passports, visas, and other federal documents; to a ban on transgender people serving in the military; to a recent declaration that he wants to issue a total ban on healthcare for trans people across the board–just to name a few. It seems like every day there is a new wave, and yet, in the face of those attacks and legislative hostility, powerful waves of resistance are rising. Today In the Den, Sara and her guests take a deeper dive into what that resistance looks like with one coalition of trans organizers, mutual-aid groups, progressive faith communities, queer associations, and dedicated allies committed to trans joy, freedom, and safety.
Links from the Show:
- Pink Haven Coalition: https://www.pinkhaven.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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When it comes to healthcare, trust can mean everything—especially for transgender, nonbinary, and intersex people who too often face discrimination, misunderstanding, and sometimes outright harm in medical settings. Affirming healthcare isn’t just about using the right name or pronouns—it’s about safety, dignity, and the difference between being seen as a whole person or reduced to a diagnosis. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by Josh Blakesley, Executive Director of The Welcome Project PA, an LGBTQIA+ community center in Hatboro, PA, that’s redefining what affirming community care can look like.
Special Guest: Josh Blakesly
Josh, a Midwest native, holds a B.A. in Theatre at Northwestern College [IA] and a Masters of Divinity [M.Div.] at Princeton Theological Seminary [NJ] and is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ. Josh, along with the Welcome Project PA’s founding Board Members, founded the organization in early 2020. His main focuses include: fundraising and development; diversity, equity, inclusion, affirmation and belonging education and training; interfaith immersion; event planning; workplace development and mentoring; media production; and the arts. Josh is also Pastor of Love In Action UCC, an open and affirming congregation. Josh has 26+ years of nonprofit experience, is a fellow of Interfaith Philadelphia, a founding member of The Society for Faith & Justice, and a Collaborator for Nurturing Justice. He also has written and directed various stage or film productions, and has developed theatre arts curriculum for use in religious and secular settings. Josh enjoys running, playing music, traveling, learning languages, or making strange and funny faces. He lives in Philly where there is typically GOOD trouble to be had.
Links from the Show:
- The Welcome Project website: https://welcomeprojectpa.org/
- Donate to the Welcome Project here: https://welcomeprojectpa.org/welcomeprojectpa.org/?page_id=16/
- See Me, Hear Me, Know Me Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo6Sxh5JA24&t=2s
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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With the recent Supreme Court order that allows the Trump administration to enforce discriminatory policies regarding gender markers on passports, we wanted to bring you a short episode that unpacks the case, the ruling, and provides answers to some of the questions we’ve been hearing. Sara is joined In the Den today by Bill Mitchell, an attorney with Legal Voice, a gender justice organization that works in the Northwest’s courtrooms, legislatures, and communities creating and enforcing strong, equitable laws and empowering people to know their rights.
Special Guest: Bill Mitchell
William “Bill” Mitchell (he/him) joined Legal Voice in 2023, following the Dobbs decision and its aftermath. With a hometown in Bellingham, Washington, Bill previously had a career as a Marine Corps officer and as a private practice attorney focusing on immigration, disabilities, and Veteran benefits. He has held both elected office and adjudicative appointments. He is a graduate of Boston College and Gonzaga University School of Law.
Links From the Show:
- Find Legal Voice here: https://legalvoice.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Public schools aren’t a perfect fit for everyone. The traditional "one-size-fits-all" curriculum often leaves out many students whose identities and learning needs don’t fit an outdated norm–queer students, Black and Brown students, neurodivergent students. And with decreased funding for specialized programs, crowded classrooms, and legislatures banning curriculum that honors diversity and inclusion and removing anti-discrimination protections, many families find their kids struggling and don’t know what to do. We know traditional school isn't enough, but pulling kids out or committing to full-time homeschooling feels impossible. Today’s In the Den guest Chris Linder offers a solution–a unique hybrid approach to homeschooling designed to bridge the gap between traditional schooling and homeschooling, providing a hybrid approach that allows students to thrive academically and socially that centers diverse and inclusive education.
Special Guest: Chris Linder
Chris Linder is a former educator and tech professional with a Master's degree in Instructional Technology. Chris is passionate about making education accessible and equitable for all. He co-founded The Literacy Initiative in 2013, focusing on publishing educational resources for diverse communities. Through Homeschool Remix, Chris inspires families to explore the benefits of hybrid homeschooling, ensuring that every child receives a comprehensive and engaging education.
Links from the Show:
- Homeschool Remix: https://homeschoolremix.com
- Homeschool Remix Blog: https://homeschoolremix.com/pages/the-homeschool-remix-revolution-blog
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Imagine: a quietly majestic, lusciously colorful, resplendently book-and-plant-filled, naturally-lit, immaculately-vibed open space for queer and trans people of all ages–including youth, families, and elders–and all the folks they love. Now imagine that space isn’t a dream, but a real place–one that celebrates queer stories, fosters connection, and helps young people see themselves reflected in the pages they turn. Today In the Den, Sara and special guest Jake Stepansky are stepping into that space — the QT Library, a community-built sanctuary of belonging in Boston.
Special Guest: Jake Stepansky
Jake Stepansky (he/any) is a culture and care worker based in Brooklyn, NY.
He is the co-founder and board president of the QT Library – a 501(c)(3) nonprofit working to bring a brick-and-mortar LGBTQIA+ library and substance-free community space to Boston. Jake is the Producer of Festival Presentations for the Under the Radar Festival, and works with private clients as a professional organizer and decluttering coach. Jake honed his skills as an arts worker and educator at Forklift Danceworks, Marty Pottenger’s Art At Work, Pomegranate Arts, the Office for the Arts at Harvard, and more. Find him on Instagram at @jakebookplantsky.
Links from the Show:
- QT Library: https://www.qtlibrary.org/
- Under the Radar: https://utrfest.org/
- Find Jake on IG: https://www.instagram.com/jakebookplantsky
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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So often we hear arguments against homosexuality from conservative Christians who claim biblical authority. But what if that authority is built on a mistranslation? What if the word homosexual was never meant to be in the Bible? That question is at the heart of today’s conversation. Sara and filmmaker Rocky Roggio are diving into the groundbreaking documentary 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture. This film uncovers how a single mistranslation in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible has shaped decades of belief, policy, and pain for LGBTQ+ people and their families. Rocky is a strong voice, among the growing chorus of LGBTQIA+ Christians who want to cure the world of this damaging narrative.
Special Guest: Rocky Roggio
Rocky Roggio is a multi award winning independent filmmaker and production designer. Rocky is also a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, and moved out of her home after coming out to her conservative, religious parents. Rocky’s father, Sal Roggio, is a non-affirming pastor and preaches that the LGBTQIA+ lifestyle is sinful. Rocky lives in Los Angeles, CA, and has been a member of three IATSE unions nationwide. She has a Bachelor’s degree in Communications with a focus in Radio, Television, and Film. Her background includes large budget physical production on award winning shows and films such as House of Cards, Parks and Recreation, With Bob and David, Whip It, and Red Dawn. In 2016, Rocky associate produced and production designed GOOK, a feature film that premiered at Sundance in 2017. In 2018, when she heard about the 1946 mistranslation in the Bible, Roggio immediately quit all her other endeavors and has focused all her time, money, and resources on producing and creating the 1946 documentary. 1946 is Roggio’s directorial debut.
Links from the Show:
- Learn more about 1946, the film, here: https://www.1946themovie.com/promotional-material
- Meet the creative team behind 1946: https://www.1946themovie.com/creators
- 1946 Resource List: https://www.1946themovie.com/workbook-resources
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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So often we hear arguments against homosexuality from conservative Christians — friends, family, even legislators — who claim biblical authority. But what if that authority is built on a mistranslation? What if the word homosexual was never meant to be in the Bible at all? That question lies at the heart of today’s conversation. Sara and special Guest Kathy Baldock are diving into the groundbreaking documentary 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture — a film that reveals how a single mistranslation in the Revised Standard Version of the Bible reshaped decades of belief, policy, and pain for LGBTQ+ people and their families.
**Special Guest: Kathy Baldock
Kathy Baldock, author, LGBTQ+ advocate, and founder of Canyonwalker Connections, based in Reno, Nevada, is a leading expert on historical and present discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community, in particular, discrimination from the socially conservative Christian church and political sectors. Baldock is one of the main researchers featured in the award-winning documentary 1946: The Mistranslation that Shifted Culture*. Her next book,* Forging a Sacred Weapon: How a 1946 Bible Mistranslation Shifted Culture (Winter 2025), is a historical and contextually-based survey following human sexuality, same-sex behavior, procreation, and Bible translations, as impacted by cultural, social, medical, political, legal, and military influences from ancient to current times. The book focuses on original research into the reasons the word “homosexuals” was included for the first time in the 1946 Revised Standard Version NT Bible. Her first book, Walking the Bridgeless Canyon (2014)*, pieced together the history of cultural and religious discrimination against LGBTQ+ people and contains personal stories of LGBTQ+ people impacted by non-inclusive theology.*
Links from the Show:
- Walking the Bridgeless Canyon: https://bookshop.org/p/books/walking-the-bridgeless-canyon-repairing-the-breach-between-the-church-and-the-lgbtq-community-kathy-baldock/4512ebf197af2705?ean=9781951136017&next=t
- Find 1946 here: https://www.1946themovie.com/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Content Warning: this episode contains frank discussions of self-harm and suicidality.
At Mama Dragons we know the value of shame-free spaces where parents of LGBTQ+ kids can explore, learn, and grow. Building families and communities rooted in genuine support is an important part of creating healthy futures for our queer children. Today In the Den, Sara visits with creator, author, and speaker Heather Hester about parenting LGBTQ+ children, unlearning the biases of our past, and learning to embrace, empower, and love our queer kids more fully.
Special Guest: Heather Hester
Heather Hester is the creator and host of the podcast More Human. More Kind., founder of Chrysalis Mama, and author of Parenting with Pride: Unlearn Bias and Embrace, Empower, and Love Your LGBTQ+ Teen. She is a speaker, writer, and fierce advocate helping parents, allies, and organizations move from confusion and fear to compassion and courageous action.
When her son came out as gay in 2017, it ignited a journey of unlearning, deep personal growth, and radical love. She quickly realized the need for more supportive, shame-free spaces for parents of LGBTQ+ kids and those seeking to become better allies. What began as a content-rich website and podcast has grown into a platform offering inclusive coaching, LGBTQ+ and Human-First consulting, and storytelling-driven workshops and talks.
Heather is married to the funniest guy she’s ever known and mom to their four extraordinary kids (two of whom are LGBTQ), and one super sassy mini Bernedoodle. She’s a weather nerd, a lover of indie bookstores and coffee shops, and a yogi who believes in the magic of connection and that belonging isn’t just a feeling—it’s a practice.
Links from the Show:
- Heather’s Podcast, More Human, More Kind: https://www.morehumanmorekind.com/
- Heather’s book: https://bookshop.org/p/books/parenting-with-pride-unlearn-bias-and-embrace-empower-and-love-your-lgbtq-teen-heather-hester/f658509f6a467cac?ean=9781641709125&next=t
- Chrysalis Mama on FB: https://www.facebook.com/chrysalismama
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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One of the most powerful truths about change is that it often begins in the most ordinary moments—when we choose authenticity, vulnerability, and the courage to be seen. Our guest In the Den today is Ash Beckham, who discovered that courage to be seen, which led her on a surprising journey to advocacy and activism. Ash is an author, advocate, and public speaker known for her viral TEDx talk “Coming Out of Your Closet”. In that powerful speech, Ash reminds us that we are ALL in the closet and invites us to step into empathy by recognizing the silent struggles we all carry. Today Ash and Sara unpack how Ash’s vulnerability—starting with everyday moments—has grown to become a powerful form of activism and inclusion.
Special Guest: Ash Beckham
Ash Beckham is a mom of two, speaker, career coach, equality advocate, and author of Step Up: How to Live with Courage and Become an Everyday Leader. Ash is an inclusion activist whose TEDx Talk “Coming Out of Your Closet” became a viral sensation. Her intrepid, relatable, and intrinsically comical style has made her an in-demand speaker, including events at Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Bank of America, and the keynote for the first LGBTQ Conference at Harvard University.
Links from the Show:
- Ash’s website: www.ashbeckham.com
- Ash’s TEDx talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSR4xuU07sc
- Find Ash on FB: https://www.facebook.com/ashbeckham/
- Find Ash on IG: https://www.instagram.com/theashbeckham/
- Find Ash on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ashbeckham
- Find Ash on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ash-beckham/
- Buy Step Up here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/step-up-how-to-live-with-courage-and-become-an-everyday-leader-ash-beckham/9833723?ean=9781683643920&next=t
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Today In the Den, we’re diving into a conversation at the intersection of identity, belonging, and storytelling. Our guest, Ingrid Hu Dahl, is a writer, speaker, and leadership coach whose work explores the layers of what it means to be both mixed race, queer and finding feminism. Ingrid is the author of the newly released memoir Sun Shining on Morning Snow, a powerful and intimate exploration of identity, grief, resilience, and transformation.
Special Guest: Ingrid Hu Dahl
Ingrid Hu Dahl is an author, speaker, and leadership coach. She is the founder of a coaching and consulting business dedicated to empowering the next generation of leaders. With over two decades of experience in learning and development, she brings her expertise to a wide range of industries, from corporate and media to nonprofit and social justice organizations. A TEDx speaker and a founding member of the Willie Mae Rock Camp in Brooklyn, Ingrid has a lifelong passion for amplifying underrepresented voices. She has written, filmed, and directed two short films exploring identity, representation, and the mixed-race experience. She has toured in multiple rock bands, playing bass, guitar, synth, drums and singing. Ingrid is certified by the International Coaching Federation and the Center for Creative Leadership. She is a global lecturer and speaker, and an advisory board member for the Institute for Women’s Leadership at Rutgers University. She lives in Sausalito, California, with her wife, Courtney, and their dog, Palo Santo.
Links from the Show:
- Ingrid’s website: www.IngridHuDahl.com
- Buy Ingrid’s book here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/sun-shining-on-morning-snow-a-memoir-of-identity-loss-and-living-boldly-ingrid-hu-dahl/22618239?ean=9781774586174&next=t
- Sun Shining on Morning Snow website: www.SunShiningonMorningSnow.com
- Find Ingrid on IG: https://www.instagram.com/ingridhudahl/
- Find Ingrid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingridhudahl/
- Sun Shining on Morning Snow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/sunshiningonmorningsnow
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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For far too many LGBTQ+ people, religion has been used as a weapon–a source of shame, exclusion, and deep spiritual wounds. Many have been told they are “incompatible with scripture,” and some have left their faith communities altogether just to protect their own well-being. Today In the Den, Sara sits down with Reformation Project founder Matthew Vines, who offers an invitation to re-read the Bible with fresh eyes, to separate tradition from truth, and to imagine a church where everyone is welcomed without condition.
Special Guest: Matthew Vines
Matthew Vines is the Founder and Executive Director of The Reformation Project and the author of God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships. He lives in Dallas, Texas. Matthew attended Harvard University from 2008 to 2010. He then took a leave of absence in order to research the Bible and same-sex relationships. In March 2012, Matthew gave a speech at a church in his hometown of Wichita, Kansas, about the Bible and same-sex relationships, calling for acceptance of gay Christians and their marriage relationships. The video of the speech was viewed more than a million times on YouTube, leading to a feature story in The New York Times that fall. In 2013, Matthew launched The Reformation Project, a Bible-based, Christian non-profit organization that works to advance an orthodox and affirming vision for the church while remaining grounded in a love for God, a love for the Bible, and a love for the church. The Reformation Project hosts a variety of events, including a conference, a Parents in Process group, a Pastors in Process group, and leadership training cohorts.
Links from the Show:
- God and the Gay Christian: https://bookshop.org/p/books/god-and-the-gay-christian-the-biblical-case-in-support-of-same-sex-relationships-matthew-vines/6425211?ean=9781601425188&next=t
- Find more about Matthew here: https://matthewvines.com/about/
- Matthew’s speech on gay Christians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY
- The Reformation Project: http://www.reformationproject.org/
- New York Times article on Matthew’s speech: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/fashion/matthew-vines-wont-rest-in-defending-gay-christians.html
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Imagine a world where queer and trans youth have safety, autonomy, joy, and the chance to live into their fullest potential. It’s a world we Mama Dragons all dream of for our queer kids. Our guests today are from an organization called Queer Youth Assemble that is not just dreaming it, but making it happen–through marches, walkouts, protests, creative activism, and community resources. This week In the Den, Sara visits with three young people who are sparking change from coast to coast.
Special Guest: Pluto or Snail
Pluto or Snail uses he/it pronouns and is trans masc and gay, though semi-questioning his sexuality. He has been out to his family since 5th grade, going through many different sexualities and genders until around his 10th grade year. Pluto has now graduated from high school.
Special Guest: Zadyn Higgins
Zadyn Higgins is an 18 year old queer and trans activist. Zadyn has been with Queer Youth Assemble for a few years now but has had a lifelong involvement in activism.
Special Guest: Esmée Silverman
Esmée Silverman (they/she) is a nationally renowned queer activist, community organizer, and changemaker. Described as a spark of creativity, Esmée has used her unique personality and lived experiences as a non-binary asexual woman to improve the lives of queer & trans youth through events, protests, education, and other endeavors. They currently serve as the co-president of Queer Youth Assemble, a non-profit she co-founded to bring autonomy and joy to all queer & trans youth across the United States.
Links from the Show:
- Find Queer Youth Assemble here: https://queeryouthassemble.org/
- Donate to Queer Youth Assemble: https://queeryouthassemble.org/donations/1738/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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For far too many LGBTQ+ people, the idea of changing who they are has been forced upon them—through family pressure, faith communities, or the dangerous practice of conversion therapy. These programs, often cloaked in the language of care or religious devotion, have left deep wounds on survivors—shame, trauma, and fractured relationships with themselves and others. Today In the Den, Sara visits with Dr. Lucas Wilson, editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy, a powerful collection of 17 survivor accounts—including his own—shedding light on the emotional and psychological fallout of conversion practices. Together they explore what conversion therapy looks like in practice, how survivors navigate the lasting impacts, and why storytelling is such a powerful tool for healing and change.
Special Guest: Lucas Wilson
Lucas Wilson is a SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Toronto Mississauga and was formerly the Justice, Equity, and Transformation Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Calgary. He is the editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy, as well as the author of At Home with the Holocaust: Postmemory, Domestic Space, and Second-Generation Holocaust Narratives, which received the Jordan Schnitzer First Book Publication Award. He is currently working on a new literary anthology about queer experiences in Christian higher education, tentatively entitled Don’t Ask, Tell All: Stories of Christian Colleges’ Anti-Queer Regimes.
Links from the Show:
- Find Shame-Sex Attraction here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/shame-sex-attraction-survivors-stories-of-conversion-therapy-lucas-wilson/21360797?ean=9781805011323&next=t
- Find At Home with the Holocaust here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/at-home-with-the-holocaust-postmemory-domestic-space-and-second-generation-holocaust-narratives-lucas-f-w-wilson/21705604?ean=9781978839816&next=t
- Find Lucas on IG/Threads/TikTok: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- Lucas on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/lukeslamdunkwilson.bsky.social
- Lucas on FB: www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96
- Lucas on Twitter/X: https://x.com/wilson_fw
- Lucas at LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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After the Supreme Court’s recent ruling in the US vs. Skrmetti case, trans youth and their families have been reeling. The decision upheld state bans on healthcare for trans youth, further stripping away life-saving care and deepening the fear and uncertainty so many of us and our kids already live with. Through it all, Mama Dragons has been here–holding families, offering comfort, and standing as a community of fierce love and unwavering support as this case has unfolded. Today In the Den, Sara sits down with special guests Sam Feder and Erin Reed to go behind the headlines and to explore the longer, more human story–one of courage, resistance, and the fight for dignity, a story that is powerfully told in the new documentary Heightened Scrutiny. This incredible film follows fearless civil rights lawyer Chase Strangio as he battles at the Supreme Court for transgender adolescents’ access to gender-affirming healthcare, confronting not only the legal system but also a media landscape that distorts public perception and threatens the struggle for trans rights.
Special Guest: Sam Feder
Sam Feder is a Peabody Award-nominated film director and writer. Sam’s films explore the intersection of visibility and politics along the lines of race, class, and gender. Sam directed the award-winning Netflix Original documentary DISCLOSURE (2020) and the widely acclaimed documentary Kate Bornstein Is a Queer & Pleasant Danger. Sam was recently invited to join the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Documentary Branch and is an on-going Project& Fellow.
Special Guest: Erin Reed
Erin Reed, known to her readers by her newsletter, Erin in the Morning, is a transgender journalist based in Washington, D.C. tracking LGBTQ+ legislation around the United States. Her work has been cited by the AP, Reuters, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and many more major media outlets.
Links from the Show:
- Project&: https://projectand.org/
- Find a Heightened Security screening near you: https://www.heightenedscrutinydoc.com/
- Watch a trailer for Heightened Scrutiny here: https://www.heightenedscrutinydoc.com/#trailer
- Find Erin in the Morning’s substack here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/
- Find Erin on Blue Sky at: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:m65ifh7vn5zdgs7izcmht4gy
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In the Den this week is the incredible Brian Selznick—yep, the genius behind The Invention of Hugo Cabret, which became the beloved movie Hugo, directed by Martin Scorsese. He also wrote Wonderstruck, The Marvels, and so many other beautiful, genre-blending books that mix stunning illustrations with powerful storytelling. Brian isn’t just a wildly talented author and artist—he’s also part of the LGBTQ+ community, and he brings that perspective into his work in such thoughtful and creative ways. His stories often center around characters who are finding their place in the world, discovering who they are, and learning how to be fully themselves—all themes that really resonate with our mission here at Mama Dragons.
Special Guest: Brian Selznick
Brian Selznick is an award-winning author and illustrator, whose groundbreaking books have sold millions of copies and been translated into over 35 languages. He revolutionized storytelling with The Invention of Hugo Cabret, a #1 New York Times bestseller, which won the Caldecott Medal and was adapted into Martin Scorsese’s Oscar-winning film Hugo. His bestsellers Wonderstruck and The Marvels further cemented his reputation as one of publishing’s most imaginative storytellers. Selznick also illustrated the 20th anniversary covers of the Harry Potter series and collaborated with Steven Spielberg and Chris Meledandri on Big Tree. He lives in Brooklyn and La Jolla with his husband, Dr. David Serlin.
Links from the Show:
- Brian’s website: https://brianselznick.com/
- Find Brian’s book here: https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=brian+selznick
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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In our Mama Dragons community, we know how transformative it is to witness the joy and authenticity of LGBTQ+ young people, and today In the Den we get to introduce you to two people who are helping make that visibility possible on a national scale. Sara visits with Jen Grosshandler, founder of the groundbreaking organization GenderCool, and her incredible daughter Chazzie. GenderCool is a youth-led movement replacing misinformed opinions with powerful, positive experiences by elevating the voices of transgender and nonbinary young people who are thriving, talented, and simply being themselves.
Special Guest: Jen Grosshandler
Jen and her husband John are the parents of four kids: three sons and their youngest transgender daughter Chazzie, who is 19 and thriving. Born and raised in Georgia, Jen’s focused the last decade on having reasonable, calm conversations with friends and family who may not understand what it means to raise a transgender daughter. This work led Jen to help create The GenderCool Project, a national nonprofit helping folks evolve their opinions by simply meeting transgender kids and their
families. Jen has been featured in national media, including TODAY, Good Morning America, USA Today, Associated Press, New York Times and Forbes.
Special Guest: Chazzie Grosshandler
Chazzie Grosshandler is a 19 year old young woman singularly focused on living her life with purpose. She is the inspiration behind a global movement called The Gendercool Project, a non-profit organization helping to replace misinformed opinions with positive experiences meeting transgender & nonbinary young people who are thriving. Chazzie realizes that by telling her powerful, positive story, she helps people understand that transgender and nonbinary kids are just like all other kids.
At 11 years old, she shared her story nationally on TODAY and helped launch GenderCool to a global audience. She has spoken at corporations, conferences, black-tie galas, houses of worship and schools across the country and has been featured in national media including The New York Times, USA Today, ABC News, Hulu, NBC News, Adweek, and Teen Vogue among other outlets. She is a GLAAD 20 under 20, and has had the great honor of speaking at the White House and collaborating with the Biden administration around progressing equality for transgender and nonbinary young people.
Links from the Show:
- Find the GenderCool website here: https://gendercool.org/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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As a lesbian, raised by a lesbian, and now the mother of a lesbian daughter, Angela Harvey brings a unique and deeply personal multigenerational perspective to the journey of LGBTQ+ identity and parenting. Her lived experience of navigating queerness within three generations of women has brought both the wisdom and compassion to speak to the challenges and joys of raising—and being—an LGBTQ+ child. Today In the Den, Sara talks with Angela about creating transformative spaces centered on healing, identity, and empowerment
Special Guest: Angela Harvey
Angela Harvey is a multifaceted speaker, author, poet, filmmaker, and advocate whose work centers on the intersections of personal growth, mental health, and LGBTQ+ empowerment. With over 25 years of experience, Angela's background as a social worker and facilitator informs her impactful approach to storytelling, which she weaves into everything from her debut poetry self-help book Poetic Alchemy to her award-winning documentary Black Rainbow Love. As the Director of Black Rainbow Love and the founder of Let’s TALK University, Angela is deeply committed to creating spaces that elevate the voices and experiences of marginalized communities, particularly the Black LGBTQ+ population. Through her writing, films, and workshops, Angela Harvey continues to transform narratives, empower others, and advocate for emotional healing, resilience, and authentic self-expression.
Links from the Show:
- Black Rainbow Love: https://filmfreeway.com/BlackRainbowLove500
- Find Angela’s books here: https://sites.google.com/view/poeticalchemy/home/?trk=public_post-text
- An article about Angela: https://www.voyageraleigh.com/interview/conversations-with-angela-harvey/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Mama Dragons is a global community with members and groups in many countries around the world. We're proud to have a dedicated Puerto Rico regional group where their Mama Dragons are making meaningful connections and amplifying voices across the island. Today In the Den, Sara talks with Miguel Vasquez, executive director of The True Self Foundation, an LGBTQ+ organization that is a beacon of hope and authenticity for queer folks in Puerto Rico. In this episode, Miguel shares the origins of True Self Foundation, how it grew into what it is today, and the ways they’re shaping a more inclusive and affirming society—from grassroots support to island-wide outreach.
Special Guest: Miguel Vasquez
Dr. Miguel Vázquez-Rivera holds a Master's Degree in Research in Clinical Psychology (Autonomous University of Barcelona) and a Master's and a Doctorate Degree in Clinical Psychology (Carlos Albizu University). He has researched topics such as sexual and gender diversity and problematic substance use. He has presented his research in Puerto Rico, the United States, Mexico, Spain, The Bahamas, Colombia, South Africa and Peru. He has published social responsibility articles on various topics in psychology and is editor of Problematic Drug Use: Foundations, Intervention, Diversity, is the lead editor of the book Trans, Queer and Non-Binary Communities: Presence and Resistance, a textbook co-written with the community, and lead editor in LGBT 101: An introductory look at the community, first textbook for LGBT communities in Puerto Rico. Also, he is the author of the therapeutic manual Salud LGBT+: A therapeutic manual for working with communities. He is the co-founder of Psicoalternativas, is co-founder and Executive Director of True Self Foundation and co-founder of Mente Serena, a digital platform to make mental health services more accessible. Throughout his career he has received awards such as: Graduate of the Year 2015 from Carlos Albizu University and Psychologist of the Year 2015 and Outstanding Professional in Public Policy and Public Service 2020, from the Puerto Rico Association of Psychology.
Links from the Show:
- Find the True Self Foundation’s website here: https://www.trueselffoundation.org/
- Shop for True Self Foundation gear: https://true-self-foundation-store.printify.me/
- Donate to the True Self Foundation here: https://www.trueselffoundation.org/donar/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In a time when stories are under siege, especially those that center queer characters and themes, we’re seeing a rise in book bans and legislative efforts aimed at erasing LGBTQ+ experiences from classrooms and libraries. Just last month, The U.S. Supreme Court handed a victory to Montgomery County parents who object, for religious reasons, to the school system’s use of LGBTQ+ themed books in classrooms, saying parents should be allowed to opt their children out of such classes. Today In the Den, Sara is joined by Lee Wind, advocate, educator, and author whose work helps fill the shelves with stories LGBTQ+ youth so deeply need.
Special Guest: Lee Wind
Lee Wind’s superpower is stories – true and fictional – that center marginalized kids and teens and celebrate their power to change the world. Closeted until his 20s, Lee writes the books that would have changed his life as a young gay kid. His Masters Degree from Harvard didn’t include blueprints for a time machine to go back and tell these stories to himself, so Lee pays it forward with a popular blog with over 3 million page views (I’m Here. I’m Queer. What The Hell Do I Read?) and books for kids and teens.
His latest book is Red and Green and Blue and White, a picture book illustrated by Caldecott-winning illustrator Paul O. Zelinsky (Levine Querido.) It has received five starred trade reviews and the New York Times called it “beautiful.” Lee’s middle grade nonfiction No Way, They Were Gay? Hidden Lives and Secret Loves (Lerner Publishing Group/Zest Books), was honored as a Junior Library Guild Gold Standard selection and was selected for the Chicago Public Library’s 2021 Best of the Best Books list. He is also the author of the crowd-funded YA novel Queer as a Five-Dollar Bill, featured as a Publishers Weekly Indie Success Story, and one of Publishers Weekly’s Top Five Independently Published Middle Grade and Young Adult Books of 2018.
With day jobs for the Independent Book Publishers Association (as their director of education and programs) and the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (as their official blogger), Lee’s superhero job is storytelling to empower readers to shine with their own light.
Links from the Show:
- Lee’s website: https://www.leewind.org/
- Lee’s books: https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=lee+wind
- Subscribe to Lee’s newsletter here: https://mailchi.mp/fc7b55fc0636/leewindsignup
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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For queer youth, belonging isn’t a luxury, it’s a lifeline. In a world that too often tells them they don’t fit, affirming spaces can be the difference between surviving and thriving. The power of belonging becomes both healing and revolutionary. Today In the Den,we’re diving into this topic, exploring the life-saving power of queer-led youth spaces that help foster that sense of belonging. Sara talks with two incredible guests who are working to create just such a space, the Rev. Dr. John Leedy, the Executive Director of Kindom Community, and Andy Hackett, Program Director.
Special Guest: Rev. Dr. John Leedy
John Leedy (he/him) is a Presbyterian pastor and has a bi-vocational calling, serving as both the Executive Director of kin•dom community and the Associate Pastor of Hope Church in Austin, TX. He holds a B.A. in Youth & Family Ministry from Abilene Christian University, an MDiv. from Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, and a Doctor of Ministry degree in Christian Formation and Liturgical Theology also from APTS. He is a Benedictine Oblate of St. Meinrad Archabbey, has a long history of camp & conference work, and lives in Austin with his wife and pastoral colleague, Rev. Dr. Krystal Leedy, along with their two daughters. John came on staff as a camp counselor at the first ever kin•dom camp in Texas and knew immediately that this work would not only change his life, but would change the lives of countless other LGBTQIA+ young people who are in need of brave spaces marked by love, inclusion, care, and celebration.
Special Guest: Andy Hackett
Andy Hackett (he/him) holds a BS in Child Development with a minor in Political Science from Texas Woman’s University. He is also certified Lifeguard/First Aid/CPR instructor and Level 1 challenge course practitioner. He lives and works full time at a Camp and Conference Center in East Texas with his dog, Baxter. Andy grew up attending a specialty camp for children with celiac disease, and after coming out as transgender, he thought "We need a camp like this for LGBTQ+ kids"- and kin•dom camp was born! He develops programs and activities that happen at camp, helps us find and train the amazing individuals that join our summer staff, and is the face behind emails reminding you to register for camp!
Links from the Show:
- Kindom Camp: https://kindomcommunity.org/camp
- Queer Camp Directory: https://directory.queercampfair.com/
- Gluten-Free Cookbook: https://theloopywhisk.com/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.com
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Since last fall, when the United States v. Skrmetti arguments first landed in the Supreme Court, Mama Dragons has been at the forefront—supporting families at rallies, hosting virtual listening circles, and amplifying the voices of trans youth and their parents. We’ve stood shoulder to shoulder with them through every legal hearing and public moment. Today In the Den, Sara joins political strategist Sam Ames to unpack what the Court’s decision allowing states to enforce bans on gender-affirming care for minors–and other recent rulings–mean for our families, our communities, and our collective future.
Special Guest: Sam Ames
Sam Ames (they/he) is a legal and policy strategist with 15 years of leadership experience in the LGBTQI+ movement. Sam served in the Biden-Harris Administration as Chief of Staff in the Department of Education Office for Civil Rights and Senior Advisor in the Department of Health and Human Services Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration. Sam began their legal career as a staff attorney at the National Center for Lesbian Rights, working on impact litigation cases involving marriage equality, employment discrimination, and family law, and in 2013 founded the Born Perfect Campaign, a national effort to end anti-LGBTQI+ conversion therapy.
Sam has spent their advocacy career working on behalf of a broad range of organizations focused on the intersections between mental health and civil rights. In 2016, Sam took a brief hiatus from law and policy to earn a graduate degree in religion, ethics, and politics with a focus on religious trauma, and spent a year in a hospital chaplain residency at UCSF Medical Center and Langley Porter Psychiatric Hospital. Sam received their B.A. from the University of California Santa Cruz; their J.D. from George Washington University Law School; and their Master of Theological Studies from Harvard University. They are a member of the U.S. Supreme Court Bar and the State Bar of California.
In their abundant spare time, Sam is a theatre lover, a shark enthusiast, and a five-time AIDS LifeCycle rider (You can even donate to their 2025 ride). They have also authored several children’s books on the places where science, history, and social justice intersect.
Links from the Show:
- More about Sam: https://thresholdstrategies.org/about
- Sam’s post, written after Skrmetti: https://samamesesq.medium.com/what-u-s-v-skrmetti-did-and-what-it-can-never-do-72465ad39a70
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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There is currently a lot of public discourse around what an LGBTQ+ ally is and isn’t. We know that our listening audience wants to be allying well and often, and as the political climate in the country continues to put our LGBTQ+ loved ones in the crosshairs, it has become increasingly important that we get our allyship right. This week In the Den, we’re re-airing this important episode from 2024, in which Jen sits down with Sara Burlingame, Executive Director of Wyoming Equality, to talk about ways that we can improve our efforts at being good allies to the LGBTQ+ community.
Special Guest: Sara Burlingame
Sara is the Executive Director of Wyoming Equality, a statewide advocacy group who works to build broad and inclusive communities, shift the hearts and minds of our neighbors, and achieve policy victories. Sara was the only non-Mormon blogger at Feminist Mormon Housewives, before working as a faith organizer with the Human Rights Campaign. A longtime Cheyenne, Wyoming, resident, she loves to spend time with her family reading, watching her sons play baseball, and camping in the most beautiful place on Earth.
Links from the Show:
- Equality Wyoming: https://www.wyomingequality.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Content Warning: Talk of Suicide
If you are having thoughts of suicide or self harm, please call or text 988, or chat 988lifeline.org
This week, we’re rereleasing an important episode that first aired in 2023. The information contained in this interview is critical for parents of LGBTQ+ children to understand, so we’re sharing it again and hope you’ll listen (or re-listen). Misconceptions and stigma can make suicide hard to understand, but talking about it can make a huge difference. Mama Dragons is committed to keeping the conversation at the forefront of our group to help conquer those misconceptions and help lower suicide rates. In this week’s episode of In the Den, our show’s original host Jen talks with special guest Taryn Aiken Hiatt about factors that impact suicide risk, warning signs of suicidality, and what to do when someone you know is having thoughts of suicide.
Special Guest: Taryn Aiken Hiatt
Taryn is a dedicated advocate with a passion for changing the culture around mental health, suicide and substance use disorders. She is a loss survivor, losing her dad in 2002, and an attempt survivor who lives in recovery today. Taryn founded and is the executive director for the Utah Chapter of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. She has testified before congress in Washington DC to increase awareness and support for better access to mental health services and to promote healthy discussions about suicide. She is widely respected throughout the nation for her hard work and dedication to saving lives. Taryn is finishing the Master's in Social Work program at UVU and graduates in May 2024. Taryn believes in the power of human connection and is dedicated to preventing suicide.
Links from the Show:
- Donate to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: www.afsp.org
- Find a local support group through AFSP: https://afsp.org/find-a-local-chapter/
- Volunteer with AFSP: https://afsp.org/advocate-for-suicide-prevention/
- National Alliance of Mental Illness: https://www.nami.org/Home
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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We first aired this episode in 2023, but with all of the firestorm around transgender people and their place in society, we wanted to share this interview with our listeners again. American actor and musician Emmett Preciado visits with In the Den’s original host Jen about his experience growing up as a transgender boy in a conservative religion. He candidly talks about a range of topics from transition to his experiences with dating to experiencing Hollywood as a trans man. You won’t want to miss this thoughtful glimpse into Emmett’s life and the wisdom he’s gained through embracing his transgender identity.
Special Guest: Emmett Preciado
Emmett Preciado, formerly known as Emmett Claren, is an American transgender actor and singer-songwriter of Spanish, Mexican, and European descent. He was born in Merced, California, but grew up in Chilton, Wisconsin. Emmett grew up in, and served a full-time mission for, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. After briefly attending BYU Idaho, he dropped out to physically transition and to seriously pursue his acting career. Emmett is known for his role as Rowan on Freeform's Good Trouble, Rio Gutierrez on ABC’s The Good Doctor, and has worked with The Trevor Project and The National LGBTQ Task Force.
Links from the Show:
Emmett on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@emmettpreciado
Emmett on IG: https://www.instagram.com/emmettpreciado
Emmett on FB: https://www.facebook.com/emmettpreciado/
Emmett on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyx59LUSE0uhgqDSF0MzipA
Early documentary with Emmett: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzyroz1OgSA
New article about Emmett: https://www.emmettpreciado.com/p/news.html
Emmett’s website: https://www.emmettpreciado.com/
Emmett’s top surgery reaction video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hofq-y2WHHo&ab_channel=EmmettPreciado
Emmett dueting with himself pre-transition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Na68cO3_I&t=9s&ab_channel=EmmettPreciado
Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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We often hear the phrase, “Love makes a family,” and while it's true that love is the most important ingredient in creating family, for many of our LGBTQ+ kids and beloveds, love also needs to be accompanied by access to reproductive medical support. So today, we’re diving into what it really means to create family—from science to love to justice. Sara sits down with reproductive endocrinologist Dr. Jacqueline Gutmann to discuss the avenues available for creating family in queer partnerships.
Special Guest: Dr. Jacqueline N. Gutmann
Dr. Jacqueline N. Gutmann (she/her) is a Reproductive Endocrinologist at RMA of Philadelphia and has devoted her career to helping people create their families of choice. She has published numerous articles and has lectured extensively on topics including LGBT family building, third party reproduction, fertility preservation including egg freezing, and the use of complementary and alternative medicine in fertility treatment. She has held numerous leadership positions in local and national professional organizations and is on the medical advisory boards of several patient advocacy groups. She is the recipient of many awards, though the one she values most is the Joyce M. Vargyas, M.D. Visionary Award from Path2Parenthood, for her impact in the fields of fertility, reproductive health, and family building within the LGBTQ+ community. Dr. Gutmann completed her medical education, residency and fellowship at Yale University. She also serves as a Clinical Associate professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Thomas Jefferson University.
Links from the Show:
- More about Dr. Gutmann: https://rmanetwork.com/staff/jacqueline-n-gutmann/
- Jefferson OB/GYN: https://www.jeffersonhealth.org/locations/obgyn-center-city
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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In the Den this week, Sara and special guest Garrett Garland talk about what it means to create in queer joy and not just survival. They discuss the importance of visibility, the responsibility of queer creatives in shaping culture, and how parents, allies, and communities can better support LGBTQ+ youth in finding their voice and claiming space. This isn’t just a conversation about art — it’s a conversation about power, authenticity, and what happens when we give queer kids the permission and the tools to imagine big.
Special Guest: Garrett Garland
Garrett Garland is a California Bay Area resident who studied at the University of Santa Cruz and Sciences Po. in Paris. Drawing from his extensive travels abroad this is his first novel. He currently resides with his husband Sam next to the sea in Half Moon Bay. Their long walks on the beach and their love of the ocean are where he draws most of his inspiration. The ocean is home but Paris is Garrett’s home town.
Links from the Show:
- Garrett’s website: https://www.garrettgarland.com/
- To Never See Heaven audiobook: https://www.garrettgarland.com/audiobooks
- To Never See Heaven in print: https://www.garrettgarland.com/store
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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As parents of queer kids, we want our children to live boldly and truthfully, to become their most authentic selves, not just accepted, but celebrated, for who they are. We want that same freedom and fullness of self-expression for every member of our families. So often trans and nonbinary people’s stories are told only through the lens of their struggles and challenges, including their political battles for legal rights, but trans and nonbinary people live rich and fulfilling lives full of joy and community too. Today In the Den, Sara sits down with special guest Joey Morelli, contributing author to Authentic Selves: Celebrating Trans and Nonbinary People, to offer a window into the real lives, joys, and resilience of trans and nonbinary people—and the families who stand proudly beside them.
Special Guest: Jozeppi A. Morelli
Jozeppi A. Morelli is an Indigenous transgender queer man who is a retired law enforcement officer/911 World Trade Center First Responder from New York City. He has been initiated into the Hopi Sand Clan since 2021. In his retirement, he has found a second career being a gender educator. Author and public speaker, Jozeppi is one of the authors in the new book and exhibit: Authentic Selves: Celebrating Trans and Nonbinary People created by Peggy Gillespie of Family Diversity Projects and published by Skinner House Books. He has been promoting the Authentic Selves photo exhibit and book across the country on radio shows, podcasts, and at in-person events.
Links from the Show:
- Authentic Selves: https://bookshop.org/p/books/authentic-selves-celebrating-trans-and-nonbinary-people-and-their-families/18955703?ean=9781558968967&next=t
- Dance to Heal interview with Jozeppi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMr8F6HIK8E
- Article about Authentic Selves: https://www.uua.org/pressroom/press-releases/authentic-selves-highlights-joy
- Join Mama Dragons today here: www.mamadragons.org
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Today we are tackling a topic that has consumed the country, the news, and social media, and has sparked a political firestorm in recent years—transgender athletes in sports. To date, 26 states have enacted laws banning transgender youth from participating in sports teams consistent with their gender identity. There is so much fear and misinformation around this topic, and today In the Den Sara sits down with the incredible Chris Mosier, the first openly transgender man to earn a spot on a U.S. Men’s National Team. Chris and Sara talk about the reality of trans people in sports and what we can do to better understand and support the trans athletes in our lives and in the country.
Special Guest: Chris Mosier
Chris Mosier is a trailblazing athlete, coach, and founder of TransAthlete.com, the leading resource for transgender inclusion in sport. In 2015, he made history as the first openly transgender man to earn a spot on a U.S. Men’s National Team, a milestone that helped catalyze policy change by the International Olympic Committee on trans athlete inclusion and earned him the title of "the man who changed the Olympics." A decorated multisport athlete, Chris is an eight-time Team USA member, five-time Men’s National Champion, and Men’s All-American. Chris’s advocacy extends far beyond competition. Through his writing, speaking, and policy work, he has influenced trans-inclusive practices at every level of sport—from high school athletics to professional leagues. As one of the most visible voices opposing anti-trans legislation in the U.S., Chris is a driving force in the fight for trans rights and equity. Chris is a Nike-sponsored athlete featured in multiple global campaigns. He also mentors transgender and nonbinary athletes around the world, living by his powerful motto: “Be who you needed when you were younger.”
Links from the Show:
- The TransAthlete website: https://www.transathlete.com/
- Chris’s website: https://www.thechrismosier.com/
- ESPN’s Body Issue 2016 photos: https://www.espn.com/espn/photos/gallery/_/id/16797886/image/1/bodies-want-2016-bodies-want-2016
- Changing the Game documentary: https://www.hulu.com/movie/changing-the-game-71bcd7f5-63b4-485c-b4ee-ed41517484d1
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There is power in preserving the rich, diverse history and culture of LGBTQIA+ people, across generations and backgrounds, promoting creativity, collaboration, and community among queer people, organizations, and allies. Especially in this particular cultural moment, when the lives and stories of our queer community are being targeted and silenced more than ever before, we need to lift up and celebrate the institutions whose mission it is to collect, preserve, and share those stories and histories widely and proudly.
Special Guest: Robert Kesten
Robert Kesten, Human Rights Advocate, is Executive Director of Stonewall National Museum Archives & Library, one of the world’s largest and most significant institutions of its kind, celebrating 50+ years of preserving history and culture in the face of prejudice and hate. Kesten’s human rights advocacy has taken many forms, including writing and producing an award winning documentary on the Holocaust at Concentration Camps in Poland, working on the Ghanaian Constitution, coordinating and producing events leading to Ukrainian independence, producing events for the first AIDS day treatment center in the nation, pushing for the decriminalization of homosexuality in Ukraine, challenging book banning, LGBTQIA+ inclusion in schools and navigating anti-LGBTQ sentiments. Kesten also worked on the West Bank during the Intifada and was brought into Egypt and Tunisia during the Arab Spring to try and establish human rights cities.
Links from the Show:
- https://stonewall-museum.org/
- https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia/stonewall-queer-history-exhibit-drexel-20240407.html
- https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article296353869.html
- https://washingtonpress.com/author/robertkesten/
- https://sfbwmag.com/human-rights-leaders-honored-during-international-human-rights-symposium-at-florida-atlantic-university/
- https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/opinion/columns/your-voice/2023/04/14/lets-act-to-ensure-lgbtqia-are-safe-and-valued-in-florida-schools/70110517007/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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We have all been watching the unprecedented attacks on trans healthcare for youth and adults by anti-trans extremists from the local to the federal levels. The trans legislation tracker reports an alarming 857 anti-trans bills under consideration in 2025 alone. Many of us, our kids, and our families find ourselves caught in the eye of this storm. Today In the Den, Sara sits down with special guest Alexis Stratton of The Campaign for Southern Equality to discuss the book that Stratton co-authored called Trans Kids, Our Kids: Stories and Resources from the Frontlines of the Movement for Transgender Youth. They explore the importance of supporting and loving and affirming the trans community, and they talk about what we can do to help.
Special Guest: Alexis Stratton
Alexis Stratton has an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of South Carolina, and their stories and essays have appeared in Hayden’s Ferry Review, Matador Review, and Oyez Review, among other publications. In 2024, they co authored Trans Kids, Our Kids: Stories and Resources from the Frontlines of the Movement for Transgender Youth with Adam Polaski and Jasmine Beach-Ferrara (Ig Publishing), and in 2025, their book of travel essays, Eating Turtle, was published with Small Harbor Publishing. Alexis has also written for the Rebel Girls book series and podcast and provides grant writing support to several LGBTQ+ nonprofits. Before transitioning to writing full-time, Alexis educated organizations in South Carolina on LGBTQ+ rights, violence prevention, and serving marginalized populations. They live in Richmond, VA.
Links from the Show:
- Kin*dom Camp Community: https://kindomcommunity.org/home
- Kin*dom Campfire Chats: https://kindomcommunity.org/podcast
- Find Trans Kids, Our Kids in the Mama Dragons Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/p/books/trans-kids-our-kids-stories-and-resources-from-the-frontlines-of-the-movement-for-transgender-youth-jasmine-beach-ferrara/21195291?ean=9781632461674&next=t&aid=108866&listref=parenting-an-lgbtq-child&next=t
- Trans Youth Emergency Project: https://southernequality.org/tyep/
- QMed Website: https://queermed.com/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Today In the Den, we’re thrilled to welcome a guest whose story is as rich and layered as the music and words he creates. Bill Robertson is a Hollywood writer, having written for National Lampoon, and one of the creators of Paradise: A Town of Sinners & Saints (both a stage musical and a 2023 film available on Prime). Bill’s journey spans decades. At 63, he’s a proud gay man who lived through, and survived, the deeply painful years of the AIDS crisis, which led him to become a bit of an amateur gay historian. Bill’s story is one of resilience, reinvention, and the surprising roads that lead us home.
Special Guest: Bill Robertson
Bill Robertson is an author, playwright, and screenwriter. His book Uncle Bill's Animal Tales - Life Lessons for Adults is about his experiences with animals, and how he believes they are his greatest teachers and healers. His latest feature film Paradise a Town of Sinners & Saints, a musical comedy, based on a stage production that had two long runs in LA and at the Austin Playhouse in Texas is being distributed by Artist View Entertainment and is streaming on Amazon, Youtube Movies, GooglePlay, Tubi & Xumo.
Bill worked two careers for many years, as a corporate recruiter and writer. He sold two scripts to Lifetime, and one, aired in 2018-2019. He wrote for a kids show on PBS, National Lampoon Magazine, and ran sketch shows in Boston, New York, and Los Angeles for several years. He has a passion for animals, politics, sports, and gay rights. He's 27 years clean and sober and is a proud gay man, who is here on the planet to love more, not less, and to be of service to others. He prides himself on giving a damn.
Links from the Show:
- The Times of Harvey Milk: https://www.amazon.com/Times-Harvey-Milk/dp/B00A5IXPJA
- Paradise, A Town of Sinners & Saints Musical: https://www.paradisebluegrassmusical.com/
- Find your local PFLAG chapter: https://pflag.org/findachapter/
- Join Mama Dragons: www.mamadragons.org
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Today’s In the Den episode is one that cuts right to the heart of our Mama Dragons mission — we’re diving into the truth that parenting is political. Whether we like it or not, the choices we make as parents, how we show up for our kids, what we teach them, how we advocate for them, all ripple out into the world around us. When you’re parenting queer kids, those ripples can have a far reach and significant impact. Sara talks with special guest Jasmine Banks about the importance of nurturing a community committed to collective growth and support, because raising children is to actively participate in societal change, and the way we parent today directly influences the world our children will inherit tomorrow.
Special Guest: Jasmine Banks
Jasmine Banks (she/her) has more than 10 years of progressive advocacy, movement building, and organizing experience. She spent the last five years dedicated to leading an intervention campaign, UnKoch My Campus, addressing the impact of far-right billionaires leveraging their philanthropic donations in higher education to erode democracy. During the campaigns she organized multiple campuses, coalitions, and provided movement support to hundreds of students, educators, and community activists. Jasmine has traveled to a number of higher ed institutions to speak with students and faculty about donor transparency and academic freedom. She was most recently honored to give a keynote for the Higher Education division of the American Federation of Teachers. Jasmine is also a former licensed therapist, Chief Marketing Officer, and small business owner.
Links from the Show:
- Generation Common Good: https://generationcommongood.org/
- Parenting Is Political podcast: https://www.parentingispolitical.org/episodes
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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We all have an inherent capacity for creativity, but queerness and creativity have a special connection. This week In the Den, Sara sits down with creativity coach Liz Heichelbech to discuss how to explore, claim, and live our own authentic lives. Navigating true self-expression in the often challenging waters of cultural and societal norms and expectations can be a powerful catalyst for creativity. Sara and Liz dive into how creativity shapes our stories, what power art holds in the coming out process, and why queerness and imagination are so deeply connected.
Special Guest: Liz Heichelbech
**Liz Heichelbech is a creativity coach, educator, author, and artist. Originally a professional contemporary and classical dancer, she earned her BFA in Fine Arts Studies from the University of Arizona, and a Masters in Education from Lesley University. She holds Massachusetts state teaching certifications in Dance, Theatre, and English, and taught in the Weston Public School district for over 20 years. She was a creative collaborator in her role as Instructional Coach for five years at Weston Middle School, and was the facilitator for Weston Secondary New Teacher Mentor Program for ten years. Liz was the former artistic director of Women’s Improv Group Boston. She has taught creative workshops at Tucson Medical Center, Rainbow Lifelong Learning, Weston Arts and Innovation Center, Waldron Center for the Performing Arts, Bloomington Council on Aging, and with Joy Point Solutions. She is a recent graduate of the Martha Beck Wayfinder Life Coaching Program, and is a member of the Creativity Coaching Association.
Liz’ first novel, Chopin in Kentucky*, was published by Bluemoose Books in 2023, and she is currently at work on the sequel, Lost and Found at the Canary Cafe. Her first adult coloring and creativity workbook,* Start Where You Art**, was published by Literary Kitchen in 2024. Liz believes in the restorative power of creative play in writing and the fine and performing arts. She knows well how to help others access, respond, and transform their ideas, feelings, desires, and dreams. Using a blend of life coaching techniques, personal inquiry, and guided, process-oriented creative structures, Liz is on a mission to inspire others and help them align with their most essential selves.
Links from the Show:
- Liz’s website: https://www.creativeincites.com/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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As we navigate these challenging times, we’ve watched as the state of Florida has become ground zero for some of the most contentious battles over equality, producing some of the harshest anti-LGBTQ+ bills in the country. This week In the Den, Sara visits with special guest Nadine Smith, who is on the frontlines of that fight. Nadine Smith, the executive director of Equality Florida and has been a relentless advocate for LGBTQ+ rights. She has played a pivotal role in mobilizing communities and standing up to discriminatory legislation.
Special Guest: Nadine Smith
Nadine Smith is the Executive Director of Equality Florida, the state's largest organization dedicated to ending discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. In 2022, she was named to the Time100, TIME's annual list of the 100 most influential people in the world. An award-winning journalist turned organizer, Nadine was one of four national co-chairs of the 1993 March on Washington. She was part of the historic meeting between then-President Clinton - the first Oval Office meeting between a sitting President and LGBTQ community leaders. She served on the founding board of the International Gay and Lesbian Youth Organization.
She is a Florida Chamber Foundation Trustee and served on President Obama's National Finance Committee. She is one of the 100 Most Influential Floridians by Influence Magazine. She currently serves as chair of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Florida Advisory Committee. She lives in St. Petersburg with her wife Andrea and son Logan.
Links from the Show:
- Wide Awake America: https://www.wmnf.org/events/wide-awake-america/#
- Equality Florida: https://eqfl.org/
- Nadine as one of the 100 Most Influential People in 2022: https://time.com/collection/100-most-influential-people-2022/6177748/nadine-smith/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Today In the Den, we’re tackling a topic that’s both unsettling and urgent: the rise of extremism, and how it’s targeting our young people across the spectrum of identity. We’ll also talk about solutions; exploring how we can recognize the signs of radicalization along with tools and strategies we can use to counteract these harmful messages and foster empathy, critical thinking, and inclusivity in the next generation.
Special Guest: Lydia Bates
Lydia Bates (she/her) is the Senior Program Manager of Partnerships at the Southern Poverty Law Center. Her work focuses primarily on equipping communities with the tools and information they need to help young people build resilience against supremacist ideologies. Prior to moving into this role, Ms. Bates was a Senior Research Analyst at SPLC, monitoring several hate groups and ideologies. She has a M.A. in Ethics, Peace, and Global Affairs from American University.
Special Guest: Cynthia Miller-Idriss
Dr. Cynthia Miller-Idriss is a Professor in the School of Public Affairs and in the School of Education at the American University in Washington, DC, where she is also the founding director and chief vision officer in the Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab (PERIL). Dr. Miller-Idriss regularly testifies before the U.S. Congress and briefs policy, security, education and intelligence agencies in the U.S., the United Nations, and other countries on trends in domestic violent extremism and strategies for prevention and disengagement. She is the author, co-author, or co-editor of seven books, including her most recent book, Man Up: The New Misogyny and the Rise of Violent Extremism (Princeton University Press, 2025) and Hate in the Homeland: The New Global Far Right (Princeton University Press, 2022).
Links from the Show:
- Link to “Not Just a Joke” report: https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/peril-understanding-preventing-gender-sexuality-bigotry/
- Report from the Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/guide/how-to-signal-you-are-an-ally-in-hostile-environment/
- Find SIECUS here: https://siecus.org/contraceptive-coercion-access-and-sex-education/
- Find Safe Bae here: https://safebae.org/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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What if faith and queerness weren’t at odds? What if a vibrant, affirming Christian life was not only possible for queer folks and their families, but deeply sacred? This week, In the Den, Sara continues a conversation with special guest Reverend Brandan Robertson, a dynamic pastor, author, and thought leader at the forefront of LGBTQ+ inclusion in Christian spaces.
Special Guest: Reverend Brandan Robertson
Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted author, activist, and public theologian, dedicated to exploring the intersections of spirituality, sexuality, and social justice. He serves as the Pastor of Sunnyside Reformed Church in New York City and is the founder and Executive Director of The Devout Foundation. Known as the "TikTok Pastor," Robertson's inclusive theological content reaches over 250,000 followers and has garnered 6 million views. He has authored 23 books, including the INDIES Book of the Year finalist True Inclusion. Robertson acquired a Bachelor of Arts in Pastoral Ministry and Biblical Studies from Moody Bible Institute, an Master of Theological Study from Iliff School of Theology, and a Master of Arts in Political Science and Public Administration from Eastern Illinois University. He's presently pursuing a PhD in Biblical Studies at Drew University. He currently resides in New York City.
Links from the Show:
- Find Brandan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@revbrandanrobertson
- Find Brandan’s website here: https://www.brandanrobertson.com/
- Gay Church: www.gaychurch.org
- Find Brandan’s books in the Mama Dragons bookstore here: https://bookshop.org/beta-search?keywords=brandan
- Brandan’s new book Queer & Christian: https://bookshop.org/p/books/queer-christian-reclaiming-the-bible-our-faith-and-our-place-at-the-table-brandan-robertson/21752396?ean=9781250321343&next=t
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Parenting a queer kid comes with so many questions. How do we support them? How do we help them find their community? And how do we make sure they know that no matter what, they are loved and they belong? Since 2010, the It Gets Better campaign has been a beacon of hope for LGBTQ+ youth, reminding them that they are not alone and that a brighter future is possible. What started as a viral video campaign has grown into a global movement, funding life-changing projects and empowering young people to create change in their own communities. This week In the Den, Sara visits with Brian Wenke, the Executive Director of It Gets Better, about empowerment, advocacy, and making sure the next generation of LGBTQ+ youth know they are seen, valued, and powerful.
Special Guest: Brian Wenke
Brian Wenke is the Executive Director of It Gets Better, the world’s largest storytelling effort for LGBTQ+ youth and a leading LGBTQ+ youth empowerment organization. Since 2016, he has led the global effort to uplift and inspire LGBTQ+ young people through storytelling, education, and community-building. Under his leadership, It Gets Better has expanded its reach across four continents and six major languages, leveraging corporate and institutional partnerships to connect with LGBTQ+ youth where they live, learn, and socialize.
Prior to It Gets Better, Brian raised over $25 million to address healthcare disparities (American Cancer Society), global conservation efforts (Greater Los Angeles Zoo Association), and affordable housing and access to the arts (Art Share LA). Brian is a proud alumnus of the University of Cincinnati, College-Conservatory of Music (BFA) and Brandman University (MBA). He currently resides in Los Angeles, California.
Links from the Show:
- It Gets Better on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itgetsbetter
- It Gets Better on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/itgetsbetterproject
- It Gets Better on IG: https://www.instagram.com/itgetsbetter/
- It Gets Better on FB: https://www.facebook.com/itgetsbetterproject/
- Apply to the It Gets Better Grant Program here: https://www.itgetsbetterchangemakers.org/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Today In the Den, we’re diving into a deeply personal and courageous journey—one that bridges faith, family, and the fight for LGBTQ+ equality. Gary and Millie Watts, parents to six children, were devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when their son Craig came out as gay. They chose to affirm and support their gay son in a time when there was no internet, no church support, and very little understanding. They became forces for change on many fronts, including a years-long letter writing effort between Gary and top leaders of the LDS (Mormon) Church. Theirs is a beautiful story of love of faith and family.
Special Guests: Gary and Millie Watts
Gary Watts was born in 1940 in Logan, Utah, into a committed Mormon family. He attended Utah State University, where he was captain of the basketball team. After serving a two-year church mission in New Zealand, he married Mildred ‘Millie’ Cragun, his sweetheart since middle school. Gary then attended the University of Utah College of Medicine, graduating in 1968.
Millie Watts was born in 1941, also in Logan. Her dad was a well-known and popular family practice physician.
Gary worked for 35 years as a radiologist at the Utah Valley Regional Medical Center in Provo, Utah. He was president of the UVRMC medical staff in 1981-82, and president of the Utah Medical Foundation in 1988-89. Millie was involved in many activities, serving as president of the Provo PTA, president of the Utah County Medical Auxiliary, and president of her church’s primary education program three times. They have six children, two of whom are gay.
Links from the Show:
- Find Gary’s book Rainbow Letters here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/rainbow-letters-the-temerity-to-believe-gary-m-watts/18520161?ean=9798449218995&next=t
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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For many in our Mama Dragons community—and for queer folks in general—it can be hard to imagine a place for themselves within religion, and Christianity specifically, especially for those who have been shunned or hurt by their religious communities. Many have chosen to leave religion behind altogether, because it felt impossible to reconcile the theology you were taught with the deep love and support you feel for your queer kids. This week, In the Den, Sara visits with special guest Reverend Brandan Robertson about what it means to reclaim faith, challenge exclusionary narratives, and build a church that fully embraces authenticity, love, and belonging.
Special Guest: Reverend Brandan Robertson
Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted author, activist, and public theologian, dedicated to exploring the intersections of spirituality, sexuality, and social justice. He serves as the Pastor of Sunnyside Reformed Church in New York City and is the founder and Executive Director of The Devout Foundation. Known as the "TikTok Pastor," Robertson's inclusive theological content reaches over 250,000 followers and has garnered 6 million views. He has authored 23 books, including the INDIES Book of the Year finalist True Inclusion. His work has been featured in TIME Magazine, CNN, and The Washington Post. Robertson is a sought-after speaker who regularly presents at prestigious platforms like The White House and Oxford University, continuing to inspire and challenge audiences around the world. Robertson acquired a Bachelor of Arts in Pastoral Ministry and Biblical Studies from Moody Bible Institute, an Master of Theological Study from Iliff School of Theology, and a Master of Arts in Political Science and Public Administration from Eastern Illinois University. He's presently pursuing a PhD in Biblical Studies at Drew University. He currently resides in New York City.
Links from the Show:
- Find Brandan on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@revbrandanrobertson
- Find Brandan’s website here: https://www.brandanrobertson.com/
- Gay Church: www.gaychurch.org
- Find Brandan’s books in the Mama Dragons bookstore here: https://bookshop.org/contributors/brandan-robertson
- Brandan’s new book Queer & Christian: https://bookshop.org/p/books/queer-christian-reclaiming-the-bible-our-faith-and-our-place-at-the-table-brandan-robertson/21752396?aid=108866&ean=9781250321343&listref=in-the-den-podcast-featured-authors
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Coming out as a transgender man in the late 1980s—before the internet, before mainstream conversations about gender identity, and before widespread access to information and affirming healthcare—Jamison Green found himself navigating a world where resources were scarce, and community was hard to find. Instead of being deterred, he became a guiding light and a leader in the fight for trans visibility and rights. Now, with his latest book, A History of Transgender Medicine, he takes us on a journey through the evolution of trans healthcare—chronicling the struggles, victories, and ongoing battles for equitable medical care. Today In the Den, we’ll explore Jamison’s incredible journey, the legacy of those who came before him, and the future he envisions for transgender rights and healthcare.
Special Guest: Jamison Green
Jamison Green, Ph.D. is an author, educator, public speaker, independent legal scholar, and expert policy consultant in transgender health and employment discrimination litigation. He is best known for his influential book Becoming a Visible Man, first published in 2004 and updated in 2020. This work is considered a classic in transgender literature, offering valuable insights into the experiences of trans men. Dr. Green began working for transgender visibility and rights in San Francisco in 1994 when a newly implemented non-discrimination ordinance (which he co-authored with city attorneys) placed the city in violation of its own Equal Benefits Ordinance. It took until 2000 to win on the issue, and a trans-inclusive policy went into effect in 2001.
Links from the Episode:
- Find Dr. Green here: https://www.jamisongreen.com/about
- Buy Becoming a Visible Man here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/becoming-a-visible-man-second-edition-jamison-green/14031840?ean=9780826522870&next=t
- Find A History of Transgender Medicine here: https://www.amazon.com/History-Transgender-Medicine-United-States/dp/B0DBT6PZCX
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Creating spaces where everyone feels safe, valued, and seen is a critical task in today’s world, but inclusion has become a political battleground. Policies are being written to erase identities, restrict access, and make belonging conditional. Instead of celebrating diversity, some lawmakers and leaders seem afraid of it. The very idea of making space for all people—especially LGBTQ+ individuals—has been weaponized, leaving many wondering: How do we push forward when inclusion itself is under attack? In this week’s episode of In the Den, Sara talks with special guest CB Beal of Justice and Peace Consulting about proactively creating spaces where safety and affirmation are not just reactions, but the starting point.
Special Guest: CB Beal
CB Beal, M.Div. (they/them/theirs) specializes in facilitating learning experiences that involve issues of marginalization, oppression, and privilege, helping participants hold the complexities of our lives in perspective, to co-create a safe[r] brave[r] space within which people can be challenged to learn and grow. They are a dynamic and humorous speaker and frequent presenter and consultant in congregations and schools in the northeast in Preemptive Radical Inclusion, safer communities/congregations, and supporting gender creative and transgender/non-binary children and youth in schools and youth-serving organizations. They also support organizations, groups and individuals doing change work. CB is a white, non-binary/genderqueer, queer, mostly able-bodied fat person.
Links from the Show:
- Justice and Peace Consulting: https://justiceandpeaceconsulting.com/
- More about CB and Preemptive Radical Inclusion: https://justiceandpeaceconsulting.com/about/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Content Warning: This episode contains brief mentions of rape and talks about addiction.
Special Guest: Rikki West
Rikki West is a former spiritual seeker and UC Berkeley–trained scientist who spent decades trying to reconcile scientific explanations of existence with her ordinary, real-life awareness. One adventure at a time, she found her way to a peace and beauty that changed all the questions. Her book Rootlines, a memoir of family healing, was published by She Writes Press in 2020. Mother of Noli and Godmother of Morgan, Rikki loves being outside in the alpine desert of northern New Mexico, where she lives with her wife Jill and an old Yamaha.
Links From the Show:
- Rikki’s website: https://www.rikkiwest.com/
- Rikki’s book Rootlines: https://bookshop.org/p/books/rootlines-a-memoir-rikki-west/kYAoarHCdMZ3yJHg?ean=9781631527548&next=t&digital=t
- Rikki’s book The Empty Bowl: https://www.rikkiwest.com/the-empty-bowl
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In today’s episode of In the Den, we confront a reality that far too many of our trans children are facing–relentless attacks from state legislatures and federal policies, bans on gender affirming care, restrictions targeting identity and expression, bathrooms, and pronouns. Trans people are under siege like never before, but there are also amazing champions for trans rights, including today’s special guest Carl Charles, senior attorney for Lambda Legal.
Special Guest: Carl Charles
Carl Charles is an experienced LGBTQ civil rights attorney focused on trans justice. He is currently serving as a Senior Attorney with Lambda Legal in their Southern Regional Office. Before working with Lambda Legal, Carl was a staff attorney at A Better Balance, the New York City Commission on Human Rights, and was a Skadden Fellow with the ACLU LGBT and HIV Project. Outside of work, Carl can be found cuddling and giving treats to his two dogs, Pipa and Lila, and sometimes also to his spouse, Chris, in their home in Atlanta, GA.
Links from the Show:
- Lambda Legal: https://lambdalegal.org/
- More from Carl: https://www.aclu.org/bio/carl-charles
- Chase Strangio film: https://festivalplayer.sundance.org/sundance-film-festival-2025/play/675dd267f71df2a4f630f99c
- Lou Sullivan article: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lou-sullivans-diaries-are-a-radical-testament-to-trans-happiness
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Supporting our queer kids and learning together about all the ways we can show up for them and ourselves is central to our Mama Dragons community. This week’s episode of In The Den dives deep into how we can support and show up for our transgender children from a place of self-reflection and joy!
Special Guest: Ben Greene
Ben Greene is a transgender advocate and educator who has spoken internationally on topics surrounding transgender inclusion. After coming out at 15 in a small town, Ben has devoted his career to spreading empathy, education, and storytelling around the trans experience, and has spoken for companies, hospitals, schools, religious organizations, and government entities sharing what it means to be transgender and how to show up as an ally. He is a fierce advocate for transgender youth, regularly speaking in their defense at the Missouri State Capitol, and is the author of the book "My Child is Trans, Now What? A Joy Centered Approach to Support". He is also the creator of the "Good Queer News" Newsletter, and regularly shares LGBTQ+ stories worth celebrating from around the world. He is passionate about educating others from a place of compassion—no matter where they’re starting from.
Links from the Show:
- Ben’s website: https://www.bgtranstalks.com/
- Find Ben’s book My Child is Trans, Now What here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/my-child-is-trans-now-what-a-joy-centered-approach-to-support-benjamin-greene/20173140?ean=9781538186459&next=t&next=t
- One-on-one mentorship available here: https://www.bgtranstalks.com/virtual-mentorship
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Drag Story Hour is a global movement that brings the magic of storytelling, the art of drag, and the power of inclusion to libraries, schools, and community spaces, creating environments where kids can celebrate diversity, explore their imaginations, and embrace the beauty of self-expression. This week In the Den, Sara and Drag Story Hour’s Jonathon Hamilt discuss everything from the joy drag story hour brings to children and families to addressing the challenges it faces to the ways in which drag story hours are changing the narrative about drag and LGBTQ+ representation in ways that are educational, empowering, and downright fun.
Special Guest: Jonathan Hamilt
Jonathan Hamilt (he/him) is with Drag Story Hour and co-founder of the NYC Chapter in 2016. Hamilt was the first Executive Director of the organization, taking it from a loose string of a few state's events to a national 501 c 3 with an international chapter network. He has spoken at Harvard, Yale, the Medical Library Association, the American Library Association, Public Library Association, School Library Journal, and SXSWEDU Conference. His activism spreads outside the work with Drag Story as his Drag persona "Ona Louise" hosts drag charity bingos across NYC. Ona Louise's personal goal is healing her inner child by offering affirming and accepting programming for kids which teaches them that it's more than okay to be different and they are loved no matter what!
Links from the Show:
- Drag Story Hour’s website: https://www.dragstoryhour.org/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Uncomfortable as it may feel, sex education, and specifically education tailored for LGBTQ+ kids, is crucial for the overall health and wellbeing of our queer kids! Today Sara talks with special guest Emmalinda MacLean about how we provide LGBTQ+ young people with the tools they need to understand themselves, build healthy relationships, and thrive in a world that often overlooks their unique experiences.
Special Guest: Emmalinda MacLean
Emmalinda MacLean is the Director of Curriculum & Instruction and Co-Founder of More Than Sex-Ed, whose mission is to nourish healthy development through honest conversation about sex and sexuality. She leads Our Whole Lives trainings around the country, coaching new sex educators on our inclusive, values-centered approach. Emmalinda is especially proud of her work on consent education, from the creation of the bubble-wrap game to the publication of her children’s book, Everybody, Every Body! California born and raised; UCLA graduate; horror movie fan; plant nerd. Pronouns: she/her
Links from the Show:
- Circles of Sexuality: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Circles-of-Sexuality-Image-provided-by-the-Unitarian-Universalist-Association-and-the_fig2_340493152
- Our Whole Lives curriculum: https://www.uua.org/re/owl
- More than Sex-Ed resources and booklist: https://www.morethansex-ed.org/resources-for-adults
- Sex is a Funny Word: https://www.corysilverberg.com/sex-is-a-funny-word
- What Makes a Baby: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15701778-what-makes-a-baby
- Transgender School: https://transgenderschool.org/
- Okay So: https://okayso.org/about-us
- Sex, etc.: https://sexetc.org/
- Scarleteen https://www.scarleteen.com/
- Sex ed chat: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/roo-sexual-health-chatbot
- Sex ed delays sexual debut: https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(20)30456-0/fulltext
- GSAs in schools reduce suicidality: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/simply-having-gay-straight-alliance-reduces-suicide-risk-all-students-180949462/
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Anyone who has ever experienced bullying or teasing of any kind has probably heard the saying, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” Really though, words can hurt, and the words we use matter. They can heal, connect, and empower, or they can harm and exclude. Words have power, and in today’s episode of In the Den, Sara talks with special guest Alex Kapitan to unpack what inclusive language really means, why it’s more than just "political correctness," and how we can all take steps to communicate more authentically and inclusively in our everyday lives.
Special Guest: Alex Kapitan
Alex is the founder of Radical Copyeditor, a transformative resource for using language in ways that align with our deepest values of equity and justice. Alex is a queer and trans activist, writer, speaker, and editor who’s dedicated to helping people use language as a tool for liberation, rather than oppression.
Links From the Show:
- Radical Copyeditor website: https://radicalcopyeditor.com/
- More about Alex here: https://radicalcopyeditor.com/author/alexkapitan/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.com
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Activism takes many forms, from frontline advocacy and protests to behind the scenes legal work and policy-making to creative visioning and artistic expression. Today’s guest In the Den is an amazing human who weaves all of these forms of justice work into her life. Sara talks with activist, civil rights attorney, and poet Sunu Chandy about her life, her poetry, and how art acts as an integral piece of her activism.
Special Guest: Sunu P. Chandy
Sunu Chandy (she/her) is a social justice activist through her work as a poet and a civil rights attorney. She’s a queer woman of color, and the daughter of immigrants from India. Sunu lives in D.C. with her family. Her award-winning collection of poems My Dear Comrades was published by Regal House in 2023. Sunu’s work can also be found in Asian American Literary Review, Beltway Poetry Quarterly, Poets on Adoption, The Quarry, and in anthologies includingThe Penguin Book of Indian PoetsandThe Long Devotion: Poets Writing Motherhood. Sunu is currently a Senior Advisor with Democracy Forward, and working with colleagues on Democracy 2025. She is also on the board of the Transgender Law Center and was included as one the Washington Blade’s Queer Women of Washington.. Sunu is delighted to celebrate My Dear Comrades alongside the book's cover artist, Ragni Agarwal.
Links from the Show:
- Sunu’s website: https://www.sunuchandy.net/
- Find My Dear Comrades here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/my-dear-comrades-sunu-p-chandy/18579401?ean=9781646033195&next=t
- Democracy 2025: https://www.democracy2025.org/
- Democracy Forward: https://democracyforward.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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So many of us lead overly busy lives and often find ourselves consumed with caring for others, including our children. Self-care is often the last thing on our priority list. Perhaps the whole concept of self-care feels frivolous or trendy. In today’s episode of In the Den, Sara sits down with Reverend Florence Caplow, a Zen priest and teacher, to discuss the reality of self-care and some very practical suggestions for prioritizing personal well-being so that we’re better equipped to care for ourselves and those around us.
Special Guest: Rev. Florence Caplow
Rev. Florence Caplow is a queer UU minister and an ordained Soto Zen priest and teacher, as well as a climate change and social justice activist, writer, and change coach. She regularly leads classes at Zen Centers around the country, and she offers one-on-one coaching for big life changes/transitions. To learn more about her you can visit her website, www.cloudway.live.
Links From the Show:
- The Greater Good Science Center https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/
- Rest Is Resistance Tricia Hersey: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/tricia-hersey/rest-is-resistance/9780316365536/
- The Nap Ministry Rest Deck: https://rep.club/products/nap-ministry-rest-deck?srsltid=AfmBOooY7EHhGScb4MXTpWDzEnCUr0CzyqMPb-QjbzOc6VR4q2kZ-DW4
- The Contemplative Pastor: https://www.eerdmans.com/9781467418874/the-contemplative-pastor/
- Rev. Caplow’s website: www.cloudway.live
- Rev. Caplow offers coaching here: https://www.cloudway.live/change-coaching
- Real Self-Care by Pooja Lakshmin: https://www.poojalakshmin.com/realselfcare
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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It isn’t unusual for LGBTQ+ people to decide to come out to their families during the holidays, and we want to help it go as smoothly as possible for everyone.This week In the Den, we’re throwing it back to replay an important past episode, where Jen spoke with Neca Allgood about what to do when your child first comes out to you. They discuss common mistakes and how to avoid them. They also cover what to do when you don’t get things right the first time. It’s an important conversation for parents with LGBTQ+ children of any age.
Special Guest: Neca Allgood
Neca Allgood is the mother of a transgender son. She is a former president of Mama Dragons, a current Mama Dragons board member, and a former board member of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, families, and friends. Neca and her husband own a small engineering consulting company. She has a PhD in Molecular Biology.
Links From the Show:
- Comprehensive, inclusive, shame-free sex ed can be found at Planned Parenthood https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/for-educators
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Content Warning: This episode discusses suicide.
According to the CDC, suicide is the second-leading cause of death for teens and young adults, and LGBTQ+ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers. Additionally, there’s often an increase in suicidality and mental health crises around the holiday season, especially in the days that directly follow the holiday itself. This week’s In the Den episode is a conversation between Sara and special guests Beth Markley and Elizabeth Kingsley about suicide prevention strategies. They discuss practical suggestions of how to help suicidal loved ones and provide tools for talking about mental health and suicide more openly and directly.
Special Guest: Beth Markley
Beth is the Executive Director of NAMI Idaho. NAMI is the National Alliance on Mental Illness. Beth has been in the nonprofit world for more than 25 years. She is a feature article writer and content developer and has been a regular contributor for several local publications. She has served as an adjunct professor at Boise State University for a course on nonprofit management and is active in her community serving on a number of Boards.
Special Guest: Elizabeth Kingsley
Elizabeth has transitioned from being an ultra Trad wife, stay-at-home and scrupulously religious mother to being a happily divorced, self-expressed, open-hearted single mom. She loves life now with her passel of queer children. They have taught her how to fully accept and love herself as she easily accepts her children.
Links from the Show:
- The National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI): https://www.nami.org/
- Resources for family members and caregivers: https://www.nami.org/your-journey/family-members-and-caregivers/
- NAMI Publications and handbooks: https://24-7.master-print.com/NAMI/UserJCatalog.aspx?category=1
- The 988 Lifeline website: https://988lifeline.org/
- QPR Suicide Prevention Training: https://www.mamadragons.org/suicide-prevention-training
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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When you and your family have spent your lives rooted in a particular religious tradition only to realize that your tradition does not openly welcome, support, and affirm your LGBTQ+ child or family member, it can be devastating. As a result, many parents end up leaving church. Some leave because of a lack of support, some because the church leaders and community shunned them or turned against them, some because they have a complete crisis of faith, unable to reconcile their love and support of their queer kids with the theological teachings of the church, leaving religion and faith behind altogether. Then the holiday season comes around, with various celebrations and traditions combining family and religion, and it can be overwhelming, confusing, and frustrating to know how to honor these traditions and engage in celebrations with a sense of meaning and authenticity. This week In the Den, Sara talks with Brittney Hartley, author of No Nonsense Spirituality, about possible ways to reframe the holidays beyond religion.
Special Guest: Brittney Hartley
Brittney Hartley is an Atheist Spiritual Director at No Nonsense Spirituality. She has a Masters Degree in Theology with a focus in the Future of American Religion. She is the author of the book No Nonsense Spirituality: All the Tools No Faith Required.
Links from the Show:
- Get No Nonsense Spirituality here: https://nononsensespirituality.com/book
- Find Britt’s resources here: https://stan.store/nononsensespirituality
- Britt on IG: https://www.instagram.com/nononsensespirituality/
- No Nonsense Spirituality on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nononsensespirituality
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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With the holiday season in full swing, many of us are finding ourselves navigating sometimes tricky and challenging family gatherings, especially with our queer kids. This time of year often comes with particular, sometimes unspoken, expectations about our participation in family events. Supporting our queer kids also occasionally means having to respond to inappropriate questions, uncomfortable interactions, and hurtful situations. This week In the Den, Sara sits down with therapists Laura Skaggs and Lisa Hansen to talk through possible coping strategies and boundaries to help get us through the holidays while protecting and prioritizing the wellbeing of our queer children.
Special Guest: Laura Skaggs
Laura Skaggs is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in treating spiritual trauma at the intersection of LGBTQ+ experiences and religion. Laura earned her master’s degree in marriage and family therapy at San Diego State University with an emphasis in LGBTQ+ mental health within conservative religious social contexts. She went on to serve for two years on the board of directors of Affirmation: LGBT+ Mormons, Families, and Friends with a focus on responding to spiritual trauma and suicide prevention. Laura is also the co-creator of CWEERS Empowerment groups: a practice designed to help LGBTQ+ individuals and their supporters confront social discrimination and internalized stigma. Laura is the mother of two daughters and presently sees clients full time in Provo, UT, as part of Flourish Therapy.
Special Guest: Lisa Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen (PhD, LMFT, Clinical Director) is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic located in Provo, Utah, which she founded in February 2017 to meet the needs of LGBTQ+ and SSA individuals and their families. Lisa received a B.S. from Brigham Young University in 1990 as university valedictorian (Summa Cum Laude with Honors thesis), an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative families and communities. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
Links from the Show:
- Flourish’s website: https://www.flourishtherapy.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Currently, young trans people are under attack across the country and around the world. Many of them continue to face rejection, persecution, and lack of support. Transanta is an amazing organization that is showing up to help meet the needs of the young trans community in the United States. Today In the Den, Sara talks with Transanta Elf Claudia Roley to discuss the needs of trans youth and explore how you can join Transanta in meeting those needs this holiday season.
Special Guest: Claudia Roley
Though Claudia has spent most of her life in Central and East Tennessee, she currently resides in Las Vegas with her wife, children, and dogs. Claudia is passionate about gender-affirming care and helping trans folks access gender-affirming care and name change processes. She loves to care for people and provide a safe and comfortable space, free of judgment, for people to exist as themselves and thrive in their environment to the best of their ability.
Links from the Show:
- Transanta’s website: https://www.transanta.com/
- Goodbuy: https://www.trygoodbuy.com/
- Find Transanta gifts through Goodbuy here: https://app.trygoodbuy.com/shop/collections/doing-good-transanta/?currentPage=1
- Transanta Resources: https://www.transanta.com/resources
- Find Meredith Russo here: https://www.macmillanspeakers.com/speaker/meredith-russo/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Find Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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We've had quite a few therapists on this podcast, and they have all shared so much wisdom and compassionate advice for us and our families. This week In the Den, our host Sara sits down with therapist Ann Russo, who specializes in the intersection of religion and LGBTQ+ issues. They discuss a range of topics surrounding mental health, spirituality, and queerness.
Special Guest: Ann Russo
Ann Russo is a mental health professional, author, and advocate specializing in sex positivity, queer issues, and religious trauma. She offers training programs, consulting services, and publications to support mental health providers and improve client care. Ann’s CE courses are in the final approval phase by ASWB/ACE for social workers, MFTs, and APCCs. They cover topics such as ethical non-monogamy, sexual health, sexual assault, sex work, lesbian couples, PTSD healing, and kink. She founded AMR Therapy & Support Services with a vision of inclusive mental health care for all. Certified in domestic violence and sexual assault counseling, she champions survivors of trauma, particularly from marginalized groups. Her therapy approach prioritizes personalized treatment plans, fostering a chill, safe space for clients to explore their thoughts and feelings. With expertise in mental health, queerness, and religion intersections, Ann offers culturally sensitive support. Her mission is to ensure everyone, regardless of background, has access to resources for thriving mental health in an inclusive and supportive environment.
Links from the Show:
- Ann’s website: https://www.annrusso.org/
- Listen to Ann on other podcasts: https://www.annrusso.org/podcasts/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Find Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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The outcome of the recent presidential election has left many of us reeling and feeling concern for our LGBTQ+ community, especially for our queer children. Many of us in the Mama Dragons community are already feeling the impact as our children share with us their fears and real-life interactions at school, work, and in the community. So, what can we do? This week In the Den, Sara meets with Allen Morris from The National LGBTQ Task Force to talk about actions we can take right now to protect our children and their futures.
Special Guest: Allen Morris
Allen (he/his/gladiator) was born and raised in Beaumont, TX. Graduate of Regent University School of Law (M.A.) and Grand Canyon University (B.S.), Allen is a Policy and Government Affairs gladiator with over a decade of broad-based public policy, immigration, criminal, and human rights experience across the legal, corporate, government, and non-profit sectors.
Allen’s primary goal is collaborating with leaders to implement substantive change to ensure legislation that serves all in need of protection and permanent solutions is achieved. Allen brings an upbeat, positive perspective into the role of being a fearless advocate for directly impacted and historically marginalized people who are often silenced and pushed to the side. In his free time, he likes to watch space/NASA documentaries, The Golden Girls, and cuddling on the couch with his fur son.
Links from the Show:
- The Task Force Action Fund: https://www.thetaskforceactionfund.org/
- Find Allen here: https://www.thetaskforce.org/people/allen-morris/
- The Task Force History: https://www.thetaskforce.org/about/history/
- Support the Task Force: https://www.thetaskforceactionfund.org/take-action/support-us/
- Get Involved with the Task Force here: https://www.thetaskforce.org/get-involved/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In the Den with Mama Dragons is entering a new era! After almost two years, our original host Jen is passing the hosting microphone on to another amazing Mama Dragon who will take the lead. Our new host is Sara LaWall. Sara has guest-hosted several episodes in the past and should be familiar to regular listeners. Today, Jen sits down with Sara to visit, so that we can all get to know our new host just a little bit better.
Special Guest: Sara LaWall
Sara serves as the Minister for the Boise Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, in Boise, Idaho, where she weaves her calling for social justice and collective liberation into her ministry advocating for queer rights and other issues connected to her faith and her heart. She holds a MDiv from Meadville-Lombard Theological School (Chicago, IL), a M.A.Ed. from Pepperdine University (Los Angeles, CA), and a B.F.A in Theatre Arts from the University of Arizona (Tucson, AZ). She serves on the boards of The Pro-Voice Project and the Idaho Coalition for Safe Healthcare. She is the proud parent of a 19 year old daughter (who is her dragon, having come out as trans in 2020), and a 15 year old son and married to an amazing husband, partner, and champion. When asking her family’s help to write this bio (because they can be a little dry) her kids said, “She is a great mother and amazing preacher that stands up for others when they can’t stand up for themselves. She taught us to never be afraid to be who you are and say what you truly believe.” She is grateful (and a bit surprised) they have actually been listening.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Find Mama Dragons on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Gender Binary shared by Jess in North Carolina
Gender Expansive shared by Julie in Snohomish, Washington
Gender Expression shared by Marie, formerly in Texas
Gender Queer shared by Kate in Melbourne, Australia
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Note: This episode is a replay of a past episode (E44) that felt timely as the holidays approach again.
We asked members of our group to share some of the most hurtful things that had been said to them or their LGBTQ children, even if the speaker’s intentions were good. The response was absolutely overwhelming. Some of the reported comments would be considered microaggressions and some were intentionally cruel. Just in time for all of the upcoming holiday gatherings, Jen brings back therapist Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen to talk through some common categories of microaggressions and possible ways to respond.
Special Guest: Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic in Provo, Utah, which she founded in 2017. Lisa received a B.S. from BYU in 1990 as valedictorian, an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative families/communities. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
Links from the Show:
- Flourish Therapy: https://flourishtherapy.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
Shownotes
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Art has such power to transform the way we see the world and to show us new perspectives, ideas, and values. Art can also be an invitation to beauty and joy, which is something we all need more of in our lives and the world, especially in these times. This week In the Den, guest host Sara LaWall talks with special guest Rae Senarighi, also known as the Transpainter, about his experiences as a non-binary artist. They discuss his drive to create art that highlights and celebrates the lives and power of trans people, and his passion for bringing self-acceptance and love to the world.
Special Guest: Rae Senarighi
Rae Senarighi/Transpainter (he/him) is your average non-binary cancer survivor inspiring self-compassion, activism, and gender resilience via unapologetic portraiture of vibrant transgender and non-binary power. Rae is on a mission to spread self-acceptance and love, evident in his portraiture, typography, and speaking engagements. As the creator of the “You Are Loved” campaign, Rae’s message of compassion has found a home on billboards in thousands of locations across the U.S. and Canada and includes flags and merch across the world. His partnerships with Schwinn, Nike and the Portland Trailblazers, GLAAD, and Netflix create trans visibility in diverse arenas.
Links from the Show:
- Rae’s website: https://transpainter.com/
- Rae on IG: Rae Senarighi | Artist (@transpainter)
- Buy Rae’s merch here: https://shop.transpainter.com/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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There are similarities and differences between all of our individual stories. We come from diverse religious backgrounds, political parties, family dynamics, and geographic areas. Each of us started at different levels of acceptance, but we all relate to the desire of wanting to protect our children over our own biases. A few times a year, we will be sharing a Mama Dragon’s story. Today, Jen visits with Mama Dragon Britt Celusta In the Den.
Special Guest: Britt Celusta
Britt (they/them) currently lives in Boise, ID, with their husband and three kids. Britt works in a daycare part time. In their spare time, they enjoy being with their kids, building miniatures, baking, and playing video games. Britt’s middle child, Ellie, is their baby dragon. Ellie is 11 years old, gender fluid, and has identified as gender nonconforming since they were 7.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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We have introduced several LGBTQ+ people on this podcast in the past. Our hope is to better understand the unique and individual lives of people who are not always represented. We also hope to remind our listeners that there is a world of possibility that exists for our kids–the same possibilities as any of our straight and cis kids. This week In the Den, Jen explores some of those ideas with nonbinary journalist Nico Lang as they share their unique life experiences as a reporter covering the fight for equality.
Special Guest: Nico Lang
Nico Lang is a journalist, editor, culture critic, and essayist. Lang is the founder of Queer News Daily and has previously worked as the deputy editor of Out magazine, an LGBTQ+ correspondent for VICE, the news editor at Them, and a contributing editor at Xtra magazine. Their work has been published in Rolling Stone, Esquire, The Daily Beast, HuffPost, and BuzzFeed News, among others. Lang was named the 2023 Online Journalist of the Year by the Los Angeles Press Club Association and is the recipient of 10 awards from the National Association of LGBTQ+ Journalist, a GLAAD Award, and the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund’s inaugural Visibility Award.
Links from the Show:
- Neco on IG: https://www.instagram.com/queernewsdaily/?hl=en
- Neco’s latest articles: https://www.them.us/contributor/nico-lang
- Neco on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nico-lang-03608567?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
- Neco’s articles on the Daily Beast: https://www.thedailybeast.com/author/nico-lang
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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As Mama Dragons, we often find ourselves in places where we have the opportunity to stand up and advocate for our queer children. Today In the Den, Jen sits down with fierce Mama Dragon Debbie Thomas to talk about her experiences of mothering two LGBTQ+ children, and how she learned to advocate for her child in a big way–all the way to the Supreme Court.
Special Guest: Debbie Thomas
Debbie Thomas is retired after a career working with the public providing assistance through the State of Wyoming and under the Centers of Medicare Services. She is a Mama Dragon living in Central Wyoming and, like many of us, is just struggling to survive in a conservative state. She was raised in a high demand religion and has 3 grown sons. Her oldest two sons are part of the LGBTQ+ community. Her oldest son faced discrimination and was refused services from a bakery in Colorado based on who he loved, which ultimately led to the famous Supreme Court case of Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission.
Links from the Show:
- Information on the Masterpiece Cake case: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111_j4el.pdf
- More on the Supreme Court case: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/16-111
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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As states across the nation continue to target transgender children, some families flee for safety and refuge. Some families choose to be as invisible as possible for their safety, and we support and celebrate that. But other families are choosing to plant their feet and fight back. Today’s In the Den guest is a mom from Texas who fought back when the state investigated her and her husband for child abuse for nothing more than supporting their trans child.
Special Guest: Amber Briggle
Amber Briggle (she/they) is a self-described “mama bear” of a transgender teen in Texas. Amber and her family were investigated by the Texas Department of Family Protective Services for “child abuse” in 2022 after TX Governor Greg Abbott directed the agency to open such cases against families like theirs. Consequently, Amber and her husband, Adam, sued Governor Abbott and are named as co-plaintiffs in PFLAG v Abbott, which seeks to permanently halt these types of investigations.
Amber is a founding member and the former national co-chair of the Human Rights Campaign’s “Parents for Transgender Equality Council”, and has previously been nominated by the Dallas Morning News as “Texan of the Year”. Along with her family, Amber starred in a nationwide PSA about trans-inclusive families that won a Telly Award and garnered over 300 million views, which she debuted onstage at the GLAAD Media Awards in Hollywood.
Amber has written for the Washington Post, Daily Beast, and TIME Magazine, and has been featured in numerous outlets, including Nightline, NHK-Japan, MSNBC, Newsweek, Teen Vogue, The 19th, and People Magazine. She and her family star in Love to the Max, a documentary acquired by the New Yorker, which was released June 2024. Mostly, though, she’s “just a mom” who loves both her kids unconditionally.
Links from the Show:
- Love to the Max: www.lovetothemax.net
- The Love to the Max film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSYm4gBiFYA&ab_channel=TheNewYorker
- Protect Our Families: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbad3efCic8&ab_channel=GLAAD
- Join Mama Dragons: www.mamadragons.org
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Prejudice shared by Chris Davis in Maine
Unconscious Bias shared by Lisa Renaud in Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Microaggressions shared by Marnie in Gold Coast, Australia
Discrimination shared by Erin in Clinton, Mississippi
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People around the world battle with self-image and self-esteem issues. Humans do a lot of things to look presentable and attractive, or even acceptable, to the world around them. Society sets unrealistic expectations about what it means to be a woman and what it means to be a man. Transgender people not only have to face these universal unrealistic expectations, they also face many unique challenges and have experiences that cisgender people don’t. Today In the Den, Jen sits down with special guests Erik VonSosen and Beckett Jones to talk about a wide range of topics impacting transgender people, from managing transition expectations to finding healthier ways to approach societal expectations to fully learning to embrace our true selves.
Special Guest: Erik VonSosen
Erik is a 23 year old fashion and costume designer based in Los Angeles. She creates womenswear out of recycled and sustainable materials, with an emphasis on structural heavy-duty corsetry. With a love of fashion as a form of visual storytelling, her inspirations often come from video games, nature, and her identity as a trans woman. When she's not working on a project, Erik can usually be found mixing songs on her DJ controller, scouring the flea market, or deciding what to wear out with her friends on a Saturday night.
Special Guest: Beckett Jones
Beckett is a transgender artist and poet. He is the oldest of three siblings and can often be found outdoors. Beckett’s a conservation worker who has spent his last few summers working in a variety of wilderness areas, including Yellowstone National Park, Mount Rainier National Park, and Palmyra Atoll National Wildlife Refuge (located about 1100 miles South of the Hawaiian Islands). Beckett's currently studying Marine Biology at the University of Hawaii.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Project 2025 is a comprehensive initiative developed by The Heritage Foundation as a blueprint for any administration willing to take it on. Many people have seen or heard of it in news headlines, but not as many really understand what it actually is or why it matters. Regardless of who wins any election, the elements and ideas in Project 2025 will come up, and parents and allies of the LGBTQ+ community need to be informed. Lawyer, advocate, and strategist Rachel Laser joins Jen In the Den to discuss all the things we need to know about Project 2025.
Special Guest: Rachel Laser
Rachel Laser, Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Rachel Laser became president and CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church and State in February 2018. She is the organization’s first non-Christian and female leader in its 76 year history. Rachel is a lawyer, advocate and strategist who has dedicated her career to making our country more inclusive. In her position at Americans United, Rachel oversees the organization’s work to protect freedom of conscience for all and ensure religion is not used to justify discrimination. Prior to coming to AU, Rachel worked as an educator on white privilege and racism and held positions as deputy director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, director of the Culture Program at Third Way and senior counsel at the National Women’s Law Center (NWLC). Rachel is a graduate of Harvard University and the University of Chicago Law School. She is a former board member of NARAL Pro-Choice America.
Links from the Show:
- Project 2025 Resource Hub
- A central hub on Project 2025, including explainer videos: AU.org/project2025
- Project 2025 Toolkit: Your Guide to Talking About Project 2025
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Conversion therapy, sometimes known as reparative therapy, targets LGBTQ+ people and seeks to change their sexual or gender identities.Conversion therapy has been shown to be harmful and has been categorically rejected by every mainstream medical and mental health organization for years. However, due to continued societal bias against queer people, some practitioners continue to use conversion therapy. Young people are particularly vulnerable to its harmful effects, which include increases in depression, anxiety, risky drug use, homelessness, and suicide. On today’s episode of In the Den, guest host Dawn Sparling talks with historian Seth Anderson about the history and consequences of conversion therapy and how to fight against it today.
Special Guest: Seth Anderson
J. Seth Anderson, PhD, was born in Provo, Utah, and raised in Utah and Arizona. He served a mission in the Russia, Samara mission. He earned a BA in Russian and a BS in Economics from Arizona State University, an MA in History from the University of Utah, and a PhD in History from Boston University. His dissertation explores the origin of gay conversion therapy. (He claims to be working on the book proposal, but that's debatable.) He likes to play piano and go to the gym. He and his husband Dr. Michael Ferguson, were the first same-sex couple married in Utah in 2013.
Links from the Show:
- The Compassion.Science website: https://neuromichael.com/
- Seth’s book LGBT Salt Lake: https://www.amazon.com/Lgbt-Salt-Lake-Seth-Anderson/dp/1540216128
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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As individuals who love and celebrate the queer people in our lives, we are very aware that their journey to accepting themselves is not always an easy one. There are lots of intersections that come together to make every journey unique, and yet we find common threads. Today In the Den, Jen visits with Mike Maeshiro about his experiences coming out as gay, deconstructing evangelicalism, healing from religious trauma, and helping others to do the same.
Special Guest: Mike Maeshiro
Mike Maeshiro is the founder of Numa, an organization that supports people recovering from religious toxicity. Mike is gay, an advocate for the LGBTQ+ community, and a queer theology enthusiast. Mike is a former instructor at Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, best known for his class, “Discerning of Spirits.” He now teaches on emotional health and redemptive deconstruction. He is a consultant and coach for gay men recovering from evangelicalism. He also has a team of coaches who work with people whose faith is evolving. He is a social media influencer and thought leader. Mike loves Japanese food, movies, and playing volleyball, and has a depth of useless knowledge about the X-men.
Links from the Show:
- Mike’s website: https://www.mikemaeshiro.com/welcometonuma
- Mike on IG: https://www.instagram.com/mikemaeshiro/?hl=en
- Mike on FB: https://www.facebook.com/mikemaeshiro/
- Mike on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH5vGo6yRl6Gay-wbJ7F6og
- Join Mama Dragons: www.mamadragons.org
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Many of our children are more expansive with regard to gender than we would have ever considered in our generation. As parents of LGBTQ+ children, we are invested in having the tools we need to best support them and help them as they navigate the complexity of their gender identity. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with psychiatrist Dr. Jack Turban about a range of topics that impact our transgender and gender diverse children.
Special Guest: Jack Turban
Dr. Jack Turban, MD, MHS is a Harvard, Yale, and Stanford-trained child and adolescent psychiatrist and founding director of the Gender Psychiatry Program at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). He is an internationally recognized researcher and clinician whose expertise and research on the mental health of transgender youth have been cited in legislative debates and major federal court cases regarding the civil rights of transgender people in the United States.
His research focuses on the mental health of transgender and gender diverse youth, particularly as these topics relate to public policy.. His research has been cited in major court cases regarding the civil rights of transgender people in the U.S., in state legislative debates around the country, and in the United Nations’ independent expert report on conversion therapy.
In addition to his research, he is a frequent op-ed contributor with work featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, The Los Angeles Times, Scientific American, and STAT. His new bookFree to Be: Understanding Kids & Gender Identity is now available.
Links from the Show:
- Purchase Jack’s book Free to Be here: https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-Understanding-Gender-Identity/dp/1668017040
- Jack’s op-eds: https://www.jackturban.com/op-eds
- Jack’s interviews: https://www.jackturban.com/interviews
- On trans women in sports: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trans-girls-belong-on-girls-sports-teams/
- Pediatric Gender Identity: Gender-affirming Care for Transgender and Gender Diverse Youth: https://www.amazon.com/Pediatric-Gender-Identity-Gender-affirming-Transgender/dp/3030389081
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In the last couple of years, states have ramped up their attacks on the LGBTQ+ community, introducing laws surrounding sports, books, and even healthcare. 24 states have banned gender affirming care for youth, and many of those laws are now being discussed, debated, and decided in the courts as LGBTQ+ people, families, and advocacy groups file challenges to these laws. Medical bans on gender affirming care have been some of the most terrifying for families, and there have been a lot to try to keep track of. Today In the Den, Jen meets with ACLU strategist Gillian Branstetter about a very specific case, and what this case might mean for all the other cases.
Special Guest: Gillian Branstetter
Gillian Branstetter is a Communications Strategist at the ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project and LGBTQ & HIV Project. Formerly of the National Women’s Law Center and the National Center for Transgender Equality, she works with advocates, storytellers, reporters, and artists to fight for gender justice, including the safety and dignity of queer and transgender people.
Links from the Show:
- ACLU website: https://www.aclu.org/
- Find your local ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/affiliates
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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As human beings, we are all more than just one thing. We each hold more than one identity, and our cultural and ethnic backgrounds play huge parts in how we experience the world. Today In the Den, guest host Sara LaWall dives into the intersection of Latinx and Queer identities with two special guests, Gabe Morales & Alex Carmelo.
Special Guest: Alex Carmelo
Alex was born in Galveston, TX, and raised in the city of South Houston. He was brought up by his grandparents. Their strong dedication and discipline made him the person he is today. Alex was the first person in his family to graduate from high school and attend college. His life journey has included some tough times, but he continues to fight not only for himself but the community he serves. As an openly gay Latino/Hispanic, he is truly passionate about helping the community. His first leadership position was as the executive liaison for Houston Millennials. He currently sits on the board of directors of the National Hispanic Professional Organization, Houston Dia Los Muertos, and the Houston Livestock show. Alex truly believes that as he empowers himself, he can help others become leaders. Motto: “Don’t talk the talk, walk the walk.”
Special Guest: Gabriel Morales
Gabriel is a 34 year old first-generation Houstonian. After years of yearning to study, practice, and work hands-on in the field of art, he was lucky enough to stumble upon a graphic design course at the University of Houston-Downtown (UHD), where he found his calling. Soon after, under the leadership of his graphic design professor/mentor, Gabriel joined the inaugural Graphic Design Research Initiative program at UHD, where he worked alongside his professor and a select group of fellow students to gain real-world experience in design projects with non-profit organizations. Gabriel was then invited to interview for a graphic design student position at the UHD Advancement & University Relations office, where he was offered a full-time position, after graduating with a BA in Fine Arts. Gabriel has been designing with UHD for eight years now and has since earned the title of Manager of Graphic Design. Outside of work, Gabriel does freelance design and spends his free time hanging out with his family, best friends/roommates, and his cat, watching movies, and singing along to musicals.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Mama Dragons has a new Executive Director! Liz Welch brings new leadership, new enthusiasm, and new ideas to Mama Dragons, so we thought it was important to introduce this new Executive Director to our podcast listeners and give her a chance to share her vision for Mama Dragons in her own words as she joins Jen in this week’s episode of In the Den.
Special Guest: Liz Welch
Liz comes to Mama Dragons with extensive advocacy and lobbying experience in LGBTQ+ and religious freedom at the federal, state, and local levels. While at the ACLU, Liz led a National Faith Coalition that supported efforts to advance protections for LGBTQ+ communities while preserving the rights of faith communities. She also co-facilitated a transgender education and advocacy project, working to train and support trans activists in advocating for their rights across the country.
Liz's work is heavily influenced by the words of Bishop Desmond Tutu, “There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they are falling in.” Liz has a passion for creating a community around complex issues and lifting the voices of those who are most impacted, especially in places where “courageous conversations” can change minds and open hearts.
In addition to her work on LGBTQ+ issues, Liz is a trained mediator, experienced facilitator, and event coordinator for everything from hyper-local Pride events to coordinating the rallies at the Supreme Court of the United States for the biggest cases of our time. Liz has spent the majority of her life living in the Rocky Mountains while working at the national level. She currently lives in a self-renovated old home in Billings, Montana, with her three obstinate hounds and an extensive garden. She is the proud mother to Mariah, who is a public defender and an avid baker.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
- LUV Conference info: https://www.luvwithoutlimits.org/
- Open to All Coalition: https://www.opentoall.com/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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There is currently a lot of public discourse around what an LGBTQ+ ally is and isn’t. We know that our listening audience wants to be allying well and often, and as the political climate in the country continues to put our LGBTQ+ loved ones in the crosshairs, it has become increasingly important that we get our allyship right. This week In the Den, Jen sits down with Sara Burlingame, Executive Director of Wyoming Equality, to talk about ways that we can improve our efforts at being good allies to the LGBTQ+ community.
Special Guest: Sara Burlingame
Sara is the Executive Director of Wyoming Equality, a statewide advocacy group who works to build broad and inclusive communities, shift the hearts and minds of our neighbors, and achieve policy victories. Sara was the only non-Mormon blogger at Feminist Mormon Housewives, before working as a faith organizer with the Human Rights Campaign. A longtime Cheyenne, Wyoming, resident, she loves to spend time with her family reading, watching her sons play baseball, and camping in the most beautiful place on Earth.
Links from the Show:
- Equality Wyoming: https://www.wyomingequality.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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rds with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Biphobia shared by CC H. in Oklahoma
Bi-Erasure shared by Amy Hutchinsson
Intersectionality shared by Kelly Fay in Essex, England
Romantic Orientation shared by Alex in The Bronx, New York
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There are similarities and differences between all of our individual stories. We come from diverse religious backgrounds, political parties, family dynamics, and geographic areas. Each of us started at different levels of acceptance, but we all relate to the desire of wanting to protect our children over our own biases. A few times a year, we will be sharing a Mama Dragon’s story. Today, Jen visits with Heather Gooding In the Den.
Special Guest: Heather Gooding
Heather grew up in small town America in an extremely conservative non-denominational Christian Church. She believed the things she was taught, even though she often questioned or didn’t really understand. She also grew up with parents who instilled a love of sacrifice and service in her from a young age. Heather has been with her husband for 30 years, and they have 6 children. As their children grew, Heather was forced to face the fact that her beliefs were changing, and she has had to redefine a lot of her personal faith. She is proud of the relationships she has forged with her children, who are now growing into adults, and she’s proud to tell others that she’s an ally and a Mama Dragon.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Many states and school districts are threatening to defund libraries and are challenging books at an increasing rate. Removing books from library shelves reduces public access to information and is often part of an attempt to control what can be taught or discussed in public spaces, usually done under the guise of protecting children. Public libraries are often targeted for their inclusion of queer and transgender authors and books that address any subject matter that relates to gender, sexuality, and racism. Today Jen is joined In the Den by librarian Lynn Steinmeyer to discuss the impacts of book banning and what we can do about it.
Special Guest: Lynn Steinmeyer
Lynn earned her MLIS degree from the University of Rhode Island and then worked almost 16 years in a small public library in CT. She then earned her MSW from Simmons College in Massachusetts and has been working with youth and families for more than a year. She is the mother of 2 children (22 and 24) who aren’t children anymore. They are both in long term relationships so Lynn claims two lovely daughters-in-law as well.
A Note from Lynn:
I would really encourage listeners to go to their local library and ask to see the Collection Development Policies. If we are focusing on serving our community and 30% of the community identify as LGBTQ - then in theory, 30% of the collection in that demographic should reflect our community! Hopefully people can look at the links below and see what they can do to support their local libraries and Friends of the Library groups. Also, maybe they will look at these lists and want to start their own fREADom to Read Group. If they want advice and support in that endeavor they can reach out to me. I would be glad to support them in what way I can, even if it will only be a supportive ear.
Links from the Show:
- Top Ten Books Banned & Challenged for 2023 (7 out of 10 are LBGTQ+): https://www.ala.org/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10
- Freedom to Read Statement: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/freedomreadstatement
- The American Library Association Bill of Rights: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/librarybill
- Censorship numbers: https://www.ala.org/bbooks/censorship-numbers
- 30 Years of Challenged Books: https://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/51787/Banned-Books-Week-Celebrating-30-Years-of-Liberating-Literature/#vars!date=1983-01-18_09:35:34!
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Gender and sexuality have been understood and expressed in a wide variety of ways in different parts of the world, in different cultures, and throughout history. As we learn more about other worldviews, our understanding expands, and we can become more compassionate and wise in our interactions with the LGBTQ+ community. Our guests today join Jen In the Den to deconstruct and reconstruct ways of looking at sexuality and gender through an Indigenous lens of intersectionality.
Special Guest: Celeste Namba
Celeste Namba, a queer woman of Navajo and English-German descent, grew up in Ganado, Arizona, as the youngest of seven. She now resides in Provo, Utah, and works in fintech, focusing on improving financial services for low-income communities. In addition to her career, Celeste and her wife, Keisha, are in the process of adopting their son. Her work aims to create a more inclusive and accepting society for all.
Special Guest: Sam Perez
Sam is a member of the Navajo Nation who has spent a good chunk of his life working in film and television production. The other part of that is spent raising his kid and trying to be a better person.
Special Guest: Roni Jo Draper
Roni Jo Draper, Ph.D. (Yurok|she.her) is an educator, storyteller, filmmaker, and activist. Roni began her career as a high school mathematics and science teacher where she worked primarily with children at risk of not completing high school. She is professor emeritus from Brigham Young University where she taught courses in literacy education, multicultural education, and global women’s studies. She is currently on a one-year appointment at Utah Valley University where she teaches courses in multicultural education and classroom management. Roni Jo is also the writer, producer, and director of the documentary short film Fire Tender, which centers the lives of Yurok fire practitioners as they return cultural fire to heal land. Fire Tender will air on PBS in April in conjunction with their Earth Day celebrations.
Links from the Show:
- Information about Fire Tender: https://www.wmm.com/sponsored-project/fire-tender/
- Find whose land you live on: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/10/1127837659/native-land-map-ancestral-tribal-lands-worldwide
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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When they find out that their child is somewhere on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, parents are often forced to examine their faith in entirely new ways, and it’s hard stuff–earth shifting, ground shaking, life changing, relationship destroying sort of hard. Today’s In the Den **guest is an expert at courageous conversations in the religious realm, because it isn’t just the individuals that are wrestling with the topic of religion and spirituality, but many religious organizations themselves. Special guest Bishop Karen Oliveto talks with Jen about the intersection of religion and LGBTQ+ identities.
Special Guest: Bishop Karen P. Oliveto**
Karen Oliveto was consecrated as a bishop of The United Methodist Church on July 16, 2016 in Scottsdale, Ariz., and assigned for the 2016-2020 quadrennium to the Mountain Sky Episcopal Area, which includes 320 congregations in Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, and a small section of Idaho. Bishop Oliveto was elected to the episcopacy after serving as the first woman pastor of the 12,000-member Glide Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco, Calif. She is the first woman to serve as senior pastor of one of The United Methodist Church’s 100 largest congregations.
Bishop Oliveto is the co-author of Talking About Homosexuality: A Congregational Resource, and the author of Our Strangely Warmed Hearts: Coming Out into God's Call and Together at the Table: Diversity without Division in The United Methodist Church.
She has the distinction of being the first openly lesbian bishop in The United Methodist Church. She and her wife, Robin Ridenour, a nurse anesthetist and United Methodist deaconess, met in Junior High Church Camp and have been together for 25 years. They were married in 2014. Bishop Oliveto was named by NBC as one of 30 contemporary LGBTQ change-makers as part of their #Pride50 series. She was also named one of the Faith Leaders to Watch in 2021 by the Center for American Progress.
Links from the Show:
- Learn more about Bishop Oliveto here: https://www.unitedmethodistbishops.org/person-detail/2463386
- Bishop Oliveto on FB: https://www.facebook.com/BishopOliveto/
- Find Bishop Oliveto’s books here: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Karen-P.-Oliveto/author/B001KI75ZO?ref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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A recurring concern that we hear from parents when their child comes out as LGBTQ+ involves family, and more specifically the fear of losing the possibility of future family. Parents are sometimes worried when they find out they have a queer child, because they feel like they’re losing their chance to be a grandparent, or they just really knew their child would make a great parent, but they don’t think they’ll get to actually experience parenthood as a queer person. So, in an effort to dispel that myth that LGBTQ+ people don’t have families, our guests today join guest host Shauna Jones to talk about their experiences as queer parents.
Special Guest: Guy Berryessa
Guy grew up mostly in conservative Provo, Utah, the fourth of four boys, and attended schools in Provo and briefly in Bangkok, Thailand, before attending college at BYU. He came out at 26 to his father and a year later, after a year of volunteer service in Nigeria, to his mother (who immediately threw up!) and almost everyone else. His parents eventually became great, supportive allies. Guy and Trey, his husband of 26 years, moved to San Francisco in 1997. They adopted their first child in Germany in 2002 and a second in San Francisco in 2010. They currently live primarily in Hawaii, but are often back to their San Francisco home, as their elder daughter attends Sonoma State.
Special Guest: Sean Childers-Gray
Sean Childers-Gray is a transgender man who grew up in Kearns, Utah, and co-founded a charity drag troupe called the Salt City Kings. He has a BA in graphic arts from Stevens-Henager and holds an MFA in media design. He has served as the President of Ogden Pride since 2020. In October 2021, he was honored with the Equality Utah Impact Award for Advancing Transgender Equality. Sean is a graphic designer and writer. He and his wife Sara are raising two queer teenagers, two huskies, and a cat named Todd. As an Educator in Higher Ed for over 15 years, Sean finds advocating for his students at Davis Tech College a priority as he continues his work for the LGBTQ+ community at large.
Special Guest: Emily English
Emily is a writer, teacher, and grant program specialist who lives in Bellingham, Washington. She is passionate about the rights and lives of young queer people. She adores her 5 boys and considers being their mother to be one of the great joys of her life. In her free time, she journals, writes, reads, and loves to go on adventures to odd and obscure places.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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In a perfect world, all parents would be prepared to welcome news of a queer child with love and affirmation. As we all know, we aren’t there yet, and sometimes one parent is ready to do what has been shown to be best practices while another isn’t. Good and loving parents often have some learning and unlearning to do, and it can be challenging when parents aren’t on the same page. In today’s episode, guest host Wendy VonSosen visits with special guests Brooke Caldwell, Lisa Dame, and Julia Bernards about what to do when parents disagree.
Special Guest: Brooke Caldwell
With a background in education and administration, Brooke now works in the commercial real estate industry. She was an early member of the Mama Dragons group. Brooke loves sushi, soccer, traveling, and advocating for the LGBTQ+ community and other marginalized groups. She's a social justice warrior and loves big.
Special Guest: Julia Bernards
Julia is a licensed marriage and family therapist, researcher, writer, presenter, and mother. Three of her four children identify as LGBTQ+, and she passionately loves, accepts, and supports them. Julia's PhD research focused on LDS parents’ process in coming to accept a transgender child. Through that research, Julia was immersed in many families’ sacred stories, and she is dedicated to sharing their words and the understandings that came from them. She has given presentations around the country and loves working with LGBTQ+ individuals and their families in therapy.
**Special Guest: Lisa Dame
Lisa has been an ally for the LGBTQ+ community starting in 2013 when her oldest daughter officially came out. She joined Mama Dragons in 2014 and found her own support and friendship among women with similar life journeys. She has been on the Board of Mama Dragons for the last 7 years, which continues to be a sustaining part of her advocacy. In 2020, Lisa decided to go back to school to become a Clinical Mental Health Counselor and joined Flourish Therapy as an intern in 2021 and then became an employee as an Associate therapist in 2022. She currently enjoys her life of seeing clients, walking her dog, spending time with family and being outside in nature through hiking, playing sports and gardening.**
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Parents often worry about the future of their children. And sometimes that intensifies for a bit when their child comes out. They wonder if their child will be able to find love and relationship. They wonder if their child will be held back in their careers. Today In the Den, Jen talks with special guests Seth Anderson and Michael Ferguson about their personal experiences of coming out, falling in love, and finding happiness. Listening to their personal narratives is a glimpse into another wonderful example of the health and success that is possible for LGBTQ individuals.
Special Guest: Seth Anderson
J. Seth Anderson, PhD, was born in Provo, Utah, and raised in Utah and Arizona. He served a mission in the Russia, Samara mission. He earned a BA in Russian and a BS in Economics from Arizona State University, an MA in History from the University of Utah, and a PhD in History from Boston University. His dissertation explores the origin of gay conversion therapy. (He claims to be working on the book proposal, but that's debatable.) He likes to play piano and go to the gym. He and his husband Dr. Michael Ferguson, were the first same-sex couple married in Utah in 2013.
Special Guest: Michael Ferguson
Dr. Michael Ferguson is an Instructor in Neurology at Harvard Medical School, where he directs the Neurospirituality Lab at the Center for Brain Circuit Therapeutics. He also directs Wellness and Self-Discovery programs for first-year students at Harvard College, where he has launched the Crimson Compassion and Earth Compassion initiatives. He is a certified Mindful Self-Compassion teacher and a world leader in the science of spirituality. Dr. Ferguson earned his bachelor’s degree at Brigham Young University and his PhD at the University of Utah. He currently serves as the choir director of the Cambridge 1st Ward in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Links from the Show:
- The Compassion.Science website: https://neuromichael.com/
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Words with Friends 12
Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Deadname shared by Roxy Rich in Temecula, California
Binding shared by Tracey in Edinburgh, Scotland
Misgender shared by Betania in Indiana
Pronoun Usage shared by Mel in Southeast Idaho
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Pride events happen around the calendar all across the country, but June is officially Pride month, and the entire month is filled with opportunities to celebrate with our LGBTQ+ loved ones. With the party on the horizon, some of us might have questions about how to show up and participate. In this episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with three other moms to tackle some of the most common questions around attending Pride. Special guests Chrysteil Hunter, Dez Weyburn, and Diane Oviatt discuss their experiences with Pride in different parts of the country.
Special Guest: Chrysteil Hunter
Chrysteil lives in Mill Creek, Washington, and is a single mom of four incredible adult kids, one 10 year old son, and has a 5 year old grandson. She works full time, one-on-one, with kids on the autism spectrum. She has been a member of Mama Dragons since 2015, serving in many positions, including WA/AK regional coordinator, board member, Director of Education, Director of the D&I Committee, and QPR suicide prevention training instructor. She loves the mountains, road trips, listening to audio books, and, most of all, spending time with her kids.
Special Guest: Dez Weyburn
Dez is a queer mom of two, birth doula, and massage therapist in Northern Utah. She believes in serving her community and has done so through birth work for over a decade. She also helped run the local postpartum support group and has been a committee member for Davis County PRIDE for the past three years. When she's not building her career or doing volunteer work, she's probably reading to her kids or working on learning Spanish or American Sign Language.
Special Guest: Diane Oviatt
Diane is a pediatric oncology nurse in Oakland, California, and a founding member of Mama Dragons. She loves kids and color and cheese. Her idea of a good time is reading restaurant reviews and visiting new bakeries.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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Content Warning: This episodes has mentions of suicidal ideation.
In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with special guests Alex and Christy Florence about their individual journeys that led them to meet and eventually marry each other. Alex shares his unique experiences as a Latino adoptee and trans man from a conservatively religious family. Christy talks about her experience as an actively religious mother whose child came out as gay and later trans, and the events that led her to meet and fall in love with Alex.
Special Guest: Christy Florence
Christy was born and raised in Shelley, Idaho. She is a farmer’s daughter and was taught to work hard, for which she is grateful. She served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Poland and is grateful for that experience. Christy is the mom of 4 amazing humans, Adam, Zoe, Luke and Isaac. She is married to Alex Florence and has been living in Farmington, Utah for the past 9 years. Christy has been part of the Mama Dragons for almost 10 years. Together, Alex and Christy advocate for the LGBTQ+ community and commit to be a safe space for families in the LGBTQ community.
Special Guest: Alex Florence
Alex was born in Galeana, Mexico, and was adopted by a family in Layton, Utah, where he was raised. Alex knew from a very young age that he was not comfortable in his body. He struggled to make sense of the disconnect his soul had with his body. After navigating through societal, cultural, religious beliefs and his family expectations, Alex finally decided to live authentically and openly when he started transitioning in December of 2011. Alex's journey has since provided many opportunities, including advocacy work, speaking engagements, and serving as President on a non-profit board for one of Utah's oldest non-profit organizations in Salt Lake City. He has helped guide other transgender individuals in their own journey towards authenticity. Alex and Christy have been married since 2016 and live in Farmington Utah.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
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There are similarities and differences between all of our individual stories as Mama Dragons. We come from diverse religious backgrounds, political parties, family dynamics, and geographic areas. Each of us started at different levels of acceptance, but we all relate to the desire of wanting to protect our children over our own biases. This week, we continue our new series of telling Mama Dragons stories. In this episode of In the Den, we meet Chelsea.
Special Guest:
Chelsea Hanson (she, her) is a 51 year old teacher and artist currently living in Las Vegas, Nevada. She grew up in Shelley, Idaho, graduated high school in Conrad, Montana, graduated from Boise State University with a degree in illustration, and spent 2 years studying at a private art academy. She has also lived in Utah and Oregon. She has been teaching visual art in the public school realm for 15 years. She has two awesome, lovely, smart, funny, resilient kids, a 16 year old son and her 20 year old daughter (dragon) who are both the center of her world. She enjoys playing and coaching tennis, playing guitar, loves music, loves being outdoors, making and building stuff and spending time with her kids.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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Queer youth are overrepresented in the foster care system, meaning that the percentage of youth in foster care who are LGBTQ is significantly larger than the percentage of LGBTQ youth in the general population. Choosing to become a resource in the foster care system may seem overwhelming or complicated, but it can be an important lifeline for these kids. This week, Celeste Carolin guest hosts In the Den, and special guest Dr. Gwen Bass joins us again to discuss some of the important aspects of foster care and how to get involved.
Special Guest: Gwen Bass
Dr. Gwen Bass is the author of Immaculate Misconception: A Story of Biology and Belonging, in which she tells her story of growing up one of the first children of lesbians conceived through artificial insemination. She is a teacher, advocate, parent mentor, researcher, and collaborative consultant. With a decade of experience each in K-12 classroom teaching and teacher education, plus years of research and program development, Gwen supports kids and adults whose needs and voices aren’t honored by conventional systems. Her team provides consultation and training to help nonprofits, educators, government agencies, and caregivers foster positive outcomes for young people — especially those with disabilities and learning differences, LGBTQ+ youth and families, and youth in foster care and unique family situations. Gwen is also a foster and adoptive parent in a queer blended family. They travel often, work like a team, and live by three rules: Have fun, be safe, be kind.
Links from the Show:
- Gwen’s website: www.drgwenbass.com
- Gwen on Queer Family Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3gqsGeQifnrx26W6taN3X1
- Gwen on This Queer Book Saved My Life: https://thisqueerbook.com/immaculate-misconception/
- Gwen on First Person Plural: https://www.keystepmedia.com/podcast/sister-act/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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On this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with TikTok mother/daughter duo Monica Gupta Mehta and Asha Lily Mehta about a range of topics from how to maintain good parent/child communication to understanding gender, neurodiversity, and queer sexuality. It’s a conversation you won’t want to miss!
Special Guest: Monica Gupta Mehta
Monica (she/her) is a teacher, educational psychologist, author, nonprofit director, mom, and now an artist! She started teaching 20 years ago in a very progressive classroom, where she taught social emotional learning and sex education along with her humanities course. Monica took time off to raise her children, all of whom are autistic and queer, requiring extremely dedicated parenting and putting them at high risk for mental health struggles. Monica then went back to earn her master's degree in educational psychology, which she put to use creating educational content that she has taught over TikTok, Instagram, in her Normalizers podcast, and in her co-authored book, It’s Totally Normal! An LGBTQIA+ Inclusive Guide to Puberty, Sex, and Gender.
Special Guest: Asha Lily Mehta
Asha (she/her) is a freshman at Northwestern University, currently studying physics and dark matter. As a neurodivergent minority lesbian, Asha has had to deal with microaggressions and outright bigotry for most of her life. In addition, the Covid-19 pandemic separated Asha from her peers during a critical phase of social development. Recognizing a similar combination of mental health, support, education, and socialization needs in teens around the world, Asha decided to join Monica, her mom, in creating online safe spaces. Asha helped create a community that has helped over 100,000 LGBTQIA+ and neurodivergent teens around the world.
Links from the Show:
- Asha and Monica’s non-profit website: https://www.kindnessproject.love/
- The Kindness Project on IG: https://www.instagram.com/kindnessproject.love/
- The Normalizers Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3lzQmBuZNpnSkAaCJtC9dr?si=8dfd115abc7640fc&nd=1&dlsi=b10a090c73394e07
- Monica and Asha on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@monicatheteacher
- Buy It’s Totally Normal on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Totally-Normal-Lgbtqia-Puberty/dp/1839973552
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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This week In the Den, Jen visits with Nigerian born pediatrician and LGBTQ+ educator Dr. Lulu about parenting queer children. They talk about a range of topics from what to do and not do when we learn about our children’s queer identities to unlearning preconceived ideas about the queer community to refining our advocacy to best serve our children.
**Special Guest: Dr. Lulu
Dr. Lulu is a multiple award-winning Queer, Nigerian-born pediatrician, LGBTQ+ educator, corporate consultant, CEO of Dr. Lulu’s Coaching & Consulting Lounge, and chief host of Moms 4 Trans Kids Podcast. She is a mother of three, one of whom is a transgender young adult woman. In addition to her family-centered gender-affirming coaching & consulting practice “Dr. Lulu’s PRIDE Corner” (which helps families navigate the psychosocial aspects of raising gender-diverse youth), she also helps support employee-parents at the workplace. Her “Allies in White Coats” program trains culturally competent physician-allies to help mitigate health inequities plaguing the LGBTQ+ community. She is the author of About Your Black Transgender Child*, and* Invited In: How to Become the Parent Your LGBTQ Child Needs*, both set to be published in 2024. Her next book* Allies in White Coats: LGBTQ+ Basics for Physicians drops in 2025!**
She has been featured on numerous news outlets and interviewed by Oprah Winfrey for her work on LGBTQ+ advocacy. She is a Youth Suicide Prevention Activist and former host of Suicide Pages, and The Pride Corner podcasts. Dr. Lulu’s current focus is helping communities support and affirm Black transgender kids (who are often hiding in plain sight), one family at a time.
Links from the Show:
- Find Dr. Lulu on IG: https://www.instagram.com/drlulutalkradio/
- Dr. Lulu on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCniyYyULNDE7S3rxoTtTJRA
- Lulu on FB: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100082578953611
- Lulu on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/drlulu
- Dr. Lulu’s website: www.dr-lulu.com
- More Dr. Lulu: https://linktr.ee/drlulu?fbclid=IwAR2sfQW5-TbTp_QNQjf8C4JqhJ3fj3VNW_3fiOjzwf7gnFxSXgbFpIAtMbs
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EPISODE 66–Coming Out When You’re a Mom
On this podcast, we often have conversations addressing parenting issues with experts, and we talk about parenting with parents. Today’s episode explores an example of a mom realizing she was queer as an adult parent with grown children, and the impacts that had on her family. In this episode of In the Den, Jen visits with Jamie Michaels, her daughter Lauryl Armstrong, and Jamie’s partner Celeste Carolin about navigating a coming out later in life as a parent.
Special Guest: Jamie Michaels
Growing up in a Christian household, Jamie Michaels embraced her faith and raised her family within Evangelical Christian teachings. However, in 2015, Jamie came out as gay to her husband and her three adult children, a revelation that challenged her family's beliefs and reshaped many of her relationships. Through her honesty and vulnerability, Jamie navigated the complexities of reconciling her sexuality with her religious roots, while navigating the complexities of a blended family. Her story serves as a powerful reminder of the strength found in embracing one's true self at any stage in life.
Special Guest: Lauryl Armstrong
Lauryl, the eldest child of Jamie Michaels, grew up in an Evangelical Christian household, deeply rooted in faith and tradition. In her early twenties, she embraced her role as a youth leader intern, passionate about guiding and inspiring younger members of her community. Lauryl continued to uphold her family's values, raising her own family within Christianity. However, her world was turned upside down in 2015 when her mother came out as gay, introducing her partner into the family in 2016. This shift challenged Lauryl's beliefs and sparked a journey of self-discovery and acceptance, ultimately reshaping her perspective on love, family, and faith.
Special Guest: Celeste Carolin
Celeste, Jamie Michaels's partner, came from an LDS upbringing, coming out in 2005. Entering Jamie’s predominantly Christian family introduced her to new complexities and unexpected joys, navigating the intricate dynamics of family ties, including adult stepchildren, grandchildren, and proximal family. Blending traditions, managing expectations, and navigating family rules became a delicate dance in their shared journey, where curiosity and adaptability undoubtedly played pivotal roles in fostering harmony and understanding within their blended family unit.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Therapy is such a wonderful gift for so many of us that need support. This week In the Den, Jen joins three therapists from Flourish Counseling to talk about the things that mental health providers wish parents of LGBTQ kids understood.
Special Guest: Lisa Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen (PhD, LMFT, Clinical Director) is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic located in Provo, Utah, which she founded in February 2017 to meet the needs of LGBTQ+ and SSA individuals and their families. Lisa received a B.S. from Brigham Young University in 1990 as university valedictorian (Summa Cum Laude with Honors thesis), an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative families and communities. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
Special Guest: Luann Hawker
Luann (she/her) is a licensed clinical social worker. She has worked as a therapist since 2019 and joined the Flourish Therapy, Inc. team in August 2020. She has over 25 years of volunteer experience with children, adolescents, and LGBTQ+ advocacy work. She currently serves on the board of directors for Genderbands, an international non-profit organization that serves the transgender and non-binary community. She has clinical experience counseling individuals, groups, families, and couples. She completed a Bachelor of Science in Psychology in 1995 and a Master of Social Work in 2021. She has been with her spouse for 30 years and is the mother of four adult children.
Special Guest: Becca Wilson
Becca Wilson, AMFT, graduated from UC Berkeley in 1989 with a bachelor’s degree in Applied Mathematics and from Utah Valley University in 2023 with a masters in Marriage and Family Therapy. She started her work in mental health as a volunteer as a text line counselor with the crisis text line, which prompted her to return to school and establish a second career in mental health. She has six children, most of whom are in the LGBTQ population. Becca loves hiking, puzzles, movies, nature, animals, and people. She enjoys playing final fantasy weekly and watching anime with her kids.
Links from the Show:
- Flourish’s website: https://www.flourishtherapy.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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Words with Friends 11
Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Homophobia shared by Clare in England
Transphobia/Transmisia shared by Sarah M. in Fargo, North Dakota
TERF shared by Connie W. in Canberra, Australia
NOT Pedophilia shared by Yani Vega, Puerto Rico
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
Words with Friends 11
Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Homophobia shared by Clare in England
Transphobia/Transmisia shared by Sarah M. in Fargo, North Dakota
TERF shared by Connie W. in Canberra, Australia
NOT Pedophilia shared by Yani Vega, Puerto Rico
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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Families come in all shapes and sizes, and that’s a wonderful thing. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with Dr. Gwen Bass about her unique experiences growing up in the 80’s, the child of two women who broke norms by using artificial insemination to create a family. Gwen also discusses her later experiences as a queer person creating a family through foster care and adoption. Gwen shares her beautifully expansive understanding of family and demonstrates that biology doesn’t make a family. Love makes a family.
Special Guest: Gwen Bass
Dr. Gwen Bass is the author of Immaculate Misconception: A Story of Biology and Belonging, in which she tells her story of growing up one of the first children of lesbians conceived through artificial insemination. She is a teacher, advocate, parent mentor, researcher, and collaborative consultant. With a decade of experience each in K-12 classroom teaching and teacher education, plus years of research and program development, Gwen supports kids and adults whose needs and voices aren’t honored by conventional systems.
Her team provides consultation and training to help nonprofits, educators, government agencies, and caregivers foster positive outcomes for young people — especially those with disabilities and learning differences, LGBTQ+ youth and families, and youth in foster care and unique family situations. Gwen is also a foster and adoptive parent in a queer blended family. They travel often, work like a team, and live by three rules: Have fun, be safe, be kind.
Links from the Show:
- Gwen’s website: www.drgwenbass.com
- Gwen on Queer Family Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3gqsGeQifnrx26W6taN3X1
- Gwen on This Queer Book Saved My Life: https://thisqueerbook.com/immaculate-misconception/
- Gwen on First Person Plural: https://www.keystepmedia.com/podcast/sister-act/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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In this episode of In the Den, Jen joins three moms whose trans kids came out and transitioned as young adults. They’ll answer a handful of frequently asked questions regarding the unique experiences of parenting an adult trans child.
Special Guest: Chrysteil Hunter
Chrysteil Hunter lives in Mill Creek, Washington, and is a single mom of four incredible adult kids, one 10 year old son, and has a 5 year old grandson. She works full time, one-on-one, with kids on the autism spectrum. She has been a member of Mama Dragons since 2015, serving in many positions, including WA/AK regional coordinator, board member, Director of Education, Director of the D&I Committee, & QPR suicide prevention training instructor. She loves the mountains, road trips, listening to audio books, and most of all, spending time with her kids.
Special Guest: Chrisann Toelupe
Chrisann Toelupe is a married mom of four living in a rural Utah town. She has been affiliated with Mama Dragons since her son came out as gay. A few years later, another child would come out as transgender. Through it all, her family has remained close by loving and supporting each other as their authentic selves. When Chrisann is not vacationing in Disneyland, she is watching Disneyland YouTube videos and planning more trips to Disney.
Special Guest: Shauna Jones
Shauna has been an active member of Mama Dragons since 2015. She hates winter, yet still finds herself living in the state of Idaho. Shauna has a husband, three young adult children (one of whom is transgender), a one eyed black lab, and an exuberant golden retriever puppy. Shauna loves running and all things rainbow.
Links from the show:
Mama Dragons website: www.mamadragons.org
Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
The Family Acceptance Project: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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Dating these days can be daunting for anyone, but dating as a queer person comes with unique challenges. The parents in our Mama Dragons groups ask a lot of questions about how to help their queer kids with dating when the time comes. In this episode of In the Den, Jen tackles the topic of dating and turns to the experts–four young, queer, Gen Z adults. They discuss their experiences, share ideas, and give advice for how to handle the potential obstacles of dating as young queer people.
Special Guest: Trieste
Trieste (she/they) is bisexual and lives in Logan, UT with her cat, Stevie. She is about to graduate from USU with a bachelor’s degree in Social Work. In her free time, she loves listening to music, crocheting, and catching up on her favorite shows!
Special Guest: Rissa
Rissa (she/her) is a lesbian from Sandy, Utah. Rissa loves anything artistic and creative. Right now her favorite medium is poetry, especially writing, reading, and having existential crises over it.
Special Guest: Jake
Jake (he/him) is 21 years old, originally from San Jose, CA. He went to a year of college at Brigham Young University-Idaho. He transferred to Utah State University, and after a year of school, he is finishing up his bachelor's degree in Psychology this May. Jake enjoys music, hiking, chatting, and learning.
Special Guest: May
May (they/them) is a nonbinary bisexual from Albuquerque, New Mexico. They are currently getting their Master's degree in Political Science from Utah State University. In addition to politics, May studies art, and has had a focus on sculpture and oil paint. They love reading, spending time with friends, and avoiding hiking at all costs.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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This week’s episode of In the Den kicks off a new series! There are similarities and differences between all of our individual stories. We come from diverse religious backgrounds, political parties, family dynamics, and geographic areas. Each of us started at different levels of acceptance, but we all relate to the desire of wanting to protect our children over our own biases. So a few times a year, we will be sharing a Mama Dragon’s story. Today, we meet Jasmine.
Special Guest: Jasmine
Jasmine grew up in California at a time when being gay was illegal. Her very conservative family made it very clear that there were “normal” people and “sinful” people, who were to be shunned and avoided, if not treated more harshly. As a very small child she knew she was different but felt her difference was even worse than being gay. So she spent decades trying to hide and ignore this reality that the world was not ready to accept. All of this dramatically changed about 5 years ago when one of her children came out to her wife as trans. Fortunately, Jasmine and her wife had grown past a lot of the closed-minded bigotry they had been raised with, and they both loved their children very much. Even though this went against their religious beliefs they knew they were not going to reject their children. But accepting their child as trans also meant accepting that trans was valid. For Jasmine, this brought to the surface all of the decades of pretending. At the time she knew very little about any LGBTQ topics, but that was about to change.
Links from the Show:
- Jasmine’s story on the Mama Dragon blog: https://www.mamadragons.org/post/taught-by-our-children-1
- Jasmine’s blog: www.j616.org
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
- Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
- Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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It’s common to hear teenagers complain, “My parents just don’t understand me.” When your child is LGBTQ, and your experience is that of a straight and/or cisgender person, that may actually be more true than we realize. We surveyed queer youth and gathered their feedback to learn what they most wish their parents understood. Jen sits down with queer and trans therapist Cole Brennan to discuss a handful of the things that LGBTQ teens submitted as potential understanding growth points for their parents.
Special Guest: Cole Brennan
Cole is a queer and transgender mental health therapist Ellie Mental Health in the Denver area, former bike mechanic and youth outdoor educator, and lover of nature, adventures, and above all, people. Cole works primarily with LGBTQ+ identified youth and adults, and has a passion for helping his clients find their innate love and joy for themselves, their many identities, and the world around them. Cole lives in Denver, Colorado with his partner, two young children, and two equally young pups.
Links from the Show:
- Cole’s therapy services: https://www.heartmindtherapydenver.com/
- Ellie Mental Health: https://elliementalhealth.com/locations/denver-west-co/
- Join the Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Mama Dragons supports, educates, and empowers mothers of LGBTQ children, but we also celebrate and acknowledge the importance of affirming fathers. In this episode of In the Den, Jen talks with three dads of LGBTQ kids about their experiences and learned wisdom from raising their queer kids.
Special Guest: Lance Sweeten
Lance Sweeten holds a bachelor's degree in engineering and works as a façade designer in Salt Lake City, UT. He’s a husband and proud father of four children. His oldest daughter is transgender. He serves as a board member and administrator for the FB group "Dragon Dads," an organization dedicated to educating and supporting fathers of queer kids. Lance works with Equality Utah and the ACLU of Utah, where he actively opposes anti-LGBTQ legislation in the state's house and senate. Recognizing the need for parental support, Lance established the FB group "Shades of Love," which empowers parents and caregivers of LGBTQ+ children.
Special Guest: Pat Wright
Pat has been a part of the Dragon Dads for about five years. He loves camping, hiking, and adventures all around the world. He enjoys spending time with all his kids and helping them grow into adults. He has six kids–four stepkids, two biological kids, one trans son, and one bisexual daughter. He loves to participate in Pride and volunteer in the community. Besides volunteering with Project Rainbow and LGBTQ+ group at work he also runs a not-for-profit called Utah Geek Events that puts on events for the tech community in Utah
Special Guest: Ralf VonSosen
Ralf came to the U.S. from Austria in high school. He made his way to Utah where he earned degrees from BYU and the University of Utah. After marrying his high school sweetheart, they moved to the CA Bay Area where they raised four kids. When their third child came out as gay, it shook their conservative Mormon family narrative and launched them on a new journey that included the welcoming of their transgender daughter. Ralf and his wife Wendy recently moved to Salt Lake City, Utah.
Links from the Show:
- Find Dragon Dads on FB: https://www.facebook.com/DragonDads
- Join the Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Please help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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“If it’s not fun for everyone, then it’s not actual fun.” When schoolyard banter crosses into harassment and bullying, what can we do to keep our kids safe at school? This week In the Den, Jen and special guest Dr. Roni Jo Draper discuss how to recognize and respond to bullying whether our child is being bullied or has become a bully within the public school system.
Special Guest: Roni Jo Draper
Roni Jo Draper, Ph.D. (Yurok|she.her) is an educator, storyteller, filmmaker, and activist. Roni began her career as a high school mathematics and science teacher where she worked primarily with children at risk of not completing high school. She is professor emeritus from Brigham Young University where she taught courses in literacy education, multicultural education, and global women’s studies. She is currently on a one-year appointment at Utah Valley University where she teaches courses in multicultural education and classroom management. Her educational scholarship has appeared in several books, educational research journals, and professional journals for teachers. In her recent work she has turned to Indigenous storytelling and other art forms to share stories that center the lives of Indigenous peoples. She produced the film Scenes from the Glittering World, about the in- and out-of-school lives of three Navajo young people attending a remote high school on the Navajo Nation, which is available to view on PBS. Roni Jo is also the writer, producer, and director of the documentary short film Fire Tender, which centers the lives of Yurok fire practitioners as they return cultural fire to heal land. Fire Tender will air on PBS in April in conjunction with their Earth Day celebrations. Additionally, Roni works as an advocate for social justice in her community. She has served as the chair of the board of the ACLU of Utah, a member of the national board of the ACLU, the Vice-President of the board of PFLAG Provo/Utah County, a member of the board of Provo Pride, and as a founding board member of Encircle.
Links from the Show:
- Bullying in school resource: https://law.duke.edu/childedlaw/docs/Bullying_in_School_Fact_Sheet.pdf
- More resources: https://www.understood.org/articles/bullying-laws
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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This week In the Den, Jen talks with seven moms of queer children about their honest feelings around parenting queer children. Our guests share how they felt when their child came out and how they feel now about having an LGBTQ child.
Special Guest: Rhonda Hill
Rhonda is a mother of four from Utah who loves to cook, craft, and play the piano.
Special Guest: Lisa Glad
Lisa is a Mormon mama of three (two Queerdos!) and a proud Mama Dragon!
Special Guest: Erin Lee
Erin is a Canadian mom of two boys, working in education.
Special Guest: Brandi Higgins
Brandi is a wife, mom and fierce advocate in Kansas City, MO.
Special Guest: Pamela Theron
Pam is a single nomad mom of queer kids living to spread love and peace.
Special Guest: Elizabeth Kingsley
Elizabeth is a life coach getting her masters in management. She’s the mother of four queer kids, with three still at home.
Special Guest: Marcie Schear
Marcie is a spicy disaster who loves to love.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Episode 56–All Things Gender
In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with special guest Erik VonSosen and her mother Wendy to chat about all things gender related. They cover everything from gender performance, gender expression to gender experience, gender transition, and more.
Special Guest: Wendy VonSosen
Wendy joined Mama Dragons in 2016. She's the mother of 4 grown kids, including a transgender daughter. She and her husband recently relocated to Salt Lake City after living in the San Francisco Bay Area for the last 25 years. Their kids are scattered among California, Utah, and Arizona. When she's not on her computer, Wendy can be found walking her two dogs and trying to get her cat to like her.
Special Guest: Erik Charlotte VonSosen
Erik is a 22 year old writer, fashion designer, and recent college graduate living in Los Angeles. She works hard for the money, fueled by a passion for vintage dresses, transgender advocacy, and sour gummy bears.
Links from the Show:
- Some gender definitions: https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terminology-and-definitions
- More definitions: https://www.talkspace.com/blog/gender-identity-vs-gender-expression/
- More on gender: https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/transgender-people-gender-identity-gender-expression
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Words with Friends 10
Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Questioning shared by Maria Fergus in Washington
Butch shared by Kellie in West Texas
Femme shared by Michelle in Boise, Idaho
Androgynous shared by M’Lisa E. in Idaho
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The power that can come from seeing your own experiences reflected in stories cannot be understated. This week In the Den, Jen chats with New York Times bestselling author Mackenzi Lee about the importance of representation, and queer representation in particular, in literature. Representation matters because what we see in the media doesn't just reflect reality. It has the potential to shape it. Books that depict and normalize queer relationships, queer identities, and queer stories in books help increase understanding in general, and give LGBTQ young people a vision of what their future could be.
Special Guest: Mackenzi Lee
Mackenzi Lee holds a BA in history and an MFA from Simmons College in writing for children and young adults. She is the author of ten books, including The Gentleman’s Guide to Vice and Virtue, which was a New York Times bestseller, received a 2018 Stonewall Book Award Honor, and won the New England Book Award; and a series of novels for Marvel which tell the origin story of your favorite MCU antiheroes. Her adult debut, LADY LIKE, is forthcoming from Dial Press. In 2020, Forbes Magazine included her on their list of 30 Under 30 in media. She currently lives in Los Angeles with a fridge full of Diet Coke and a dog that weighs more than she does.
Links from the Show:
- Mackenzi’s website: https://www.mackenzilee.com/
- Mackenzi on IG: https://www.instagram.com/themackenzilee/?hl=en
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.com
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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EPISODE 54–Just the FAQs–Moms of Trans Minors
In this episode of In the Den, Jen joins two mothers of young transgender children to answer a handful of frequently asked questions regarding actively parenting an underage trans child in today’s political climate. Because it isn’t currently safe to be a transgender child, and because we don’t wish to put trans children or their families at increased risk, we will be using pseudonyms and changing identifying information for this episode’s guests to protect their anonymity so that we can discuss these important topics without putting a target on families’ backs.
- When did your child first start talking to you about gender and what did that look like?
- How did you respond to those early ideas and conversations?
- Was there a specific point where you knew that this was a real thing? And what did you do at that point?
- Did your child experience dysphoria and what did that look like from the outside?
- What was the first step of transition for your child?
- What sorts of things came next?
- What transition related things do you see for your child’s future?
- How has this all been socially for your child and your family?
- How are the political conversations and current legislation impacting your family?
- What common myths can you debunk for us?
Links from the show:
Mama Dragons website: www.mamadragons.org
Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
The Family Acceptance Project: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org.
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In 2023, a record-breaking 586 bills were introduced across the United States that specifically targeted transgender people and their right to exist. From removing trans people's access to healthcare to their access to public bathrooms, sports, books, or simply the use of their names and pronouns, efforts to erase trans people were intense. The 2024 legislative season is around the corner, and there will undoubtedly be another onslaught of anti-LGBTQ bills up for debate. Neca Allgood returns to the podcast to talk about the upcoming legislative season with Jen. They discuss the general categories of anti-trans legislation that occur, how to combat misinformation, and ways to make a difference politically. They also discuss the importance of resilience, healthy boundaries, and self-care during difficult times.
Special Guest: Neca Allgood
Neca Allgood is the mother of a transgender son. She is a former President of Mama Dragons, a current Mama Dragons board member, and a former board member of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, Families, and Friends. Neca and her husband own a small engineering consulting company. She has a PhD in Molecular Biology. And Neca has been a powerful political ally to the LGBTQ community for over a decade now.
Links from the Show:
- ACLU Legislation Tracking: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights
- Trans Equality 2023 Legislation Tracking by State: https://transequality.org/state-action-center
- Track Trans Legislation: https://www.tracktranslegislation.com/
- Southern Poverty Law Center Hate Map: https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
- PFLAG newsletters: https://pflag.org/newsletters/
- Truth Sandwiches: https://www.pbs.org/standards/blogs/standards-articles/what-is-a-truth-sandwich/
- National Center for Lesbian Rights: https://www.nclrights.org/
- Sue Robbins website: https://sueinut.com/
- GLSEN: https://www.glsen.org/
- Equality Federation: https://www.equalityfederation.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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In the Den is one year old! To celebrate a full year of episodes, we’re turning the spotlight back onto our intrepid host Jen Blair. Mama Dragons Executive Director Celeste Carolin guest hosts and asks Jen about her experiences of having a child come out as gay and finding Mama Dragons in its earliest years of existence. We hope you enjoy this chance to get to know Jen better and to glimpse the source of her endless passion for creating a better world for parents of LGBTQ children.
Special Guest: Jen Blair
Jen has been a member of Mama Dragons since January 2014. She has a husband, four amazing kids, and one pet--a plastic skeleton dog that sits on her porch during the month of October. Originally from Utah, Jen currently lives in Idaho. When not practicing yoga or reading, she's often having lively conversations with strangers on the internet.
Special Guest Host: Celeste Carolin
Celeste Carolin studied business at Harvard Extension School and is currently earning a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy from NCU. As a queer (lesbian) cisgender woman, she has worked with LGBTQ youth and non-profits for the past 10 years. Celeste has served in Mama Dragons leadership since 2016 and currently serves as the Mama Dragons Executive Director. She lives just outside Seattle with her lovely partner Jamie, extended family, grand kiddos, and their pup Jackson Blue. Both Celeste and her partner come from non accepting religious roots, which fuels Celeste's passion for understanding and serving the intersectionality of faith and parenting LGBTQ children.
Links from the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Content Warning: Frank discussion of death by suicide
In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with fellow Mama Dragons Julie Turnbull and Alyson Paul Deussen to talk about their lived experiences as mothers surviving the loss of their sons to suicide. In this vulnerable discussion, they honestly share the difficult moments of parenting a suicidal child and the journey of grief that their lives took when their child died by suicide. We hope their insights help other parents who are facing the same unthinkable parenthood journey of loss.
Special Guest: Julie Turnbull
Julie Turnbull has been involved in LGBTQ ally spaces since 2014 when she joined the Mama Dragons FB group. In January 2015, her gay son Tyso, died by suicide, and Mama Dragons became the space for her to find support in her grief. She was also motivated to turn her grief into action, so she became more involved in Mama Dragons. In 2017, she was elected as the 2nd president of Mama Dragons. In 2018, she served as Mama Dragons President. Under her leadership, Mama Dragons received non-profit status and formed a 501c3. Currently she is serving as the podcast guest coordinator for In the Den with Mama Dragons podcast. Julie is self-employed and manages her own rental properties. She lives in Snohomish, Washington with her partner. She is the mother of 6 (5 living) and the grandmother of 4.
Special Guest: Alyson Paul Deussen
Alyson began her journey with the LGBT community in 2012 with her then newly out son, Stockton. Tragedy stuck in 2016 when Alyson lost Stockton to suicide. Since then, she has continued to share their story in an effort to bring awareness (#standingforstockton #ichooselove). She has been involved with Utah’s LGBTQ Suicide Prevention Workgroup, I’ll Walk With You, Affirmation, and Mama Dragons. Presently, Alyson is working with the Love Loud organization, Flourish Therapy, and has helped create sexual health training for parents. Alyson and her husband George are board members with the UofU Caring Connections: A Hope of Comfort in Grief Programs. The mission is to provide evidence based bereavement care for grieving persons. Alyson and her husband George have three kids, three grandkids, and currently live in North Salt Lake, UT. They enjoy doing humanitarian work, snow skiing, water skiing, soccer, and traveling.
Links from the Show:
- Resources for Survivors of Suicide Loss: https://sprc.org/tools/resources-survivors-suicide-loss/
- Alyson and Stockton Al Jazeera America interview: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/30/mama-dragons-make-life-easier-for-gay-mormon-children.html#:~:text=The%20Mama%20Dragons%20offer%20one,families%20and%20are%20sometimes%20suicidal.
- Standing for Stockton website: https://www.standingforstockton.com/
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Content Warning: Talk of Suicide
If you are having thoughts of suicide or self harm, please call or text 988, or chat 988lifeline.org
Misconceptions and stigma can make suicide hard to understand, but talking about it can make a huge difference. Mama Dragons is committed to keeping the conversation at the forefront of our group to help conquer those misconceptions and help lower suicide rates. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with special guest Taryn Aiken Hiatt about factors that impact suicide risk, warning signs of suicidality, and what to do when someone you know is having thoughts of suicide.
Special Guest: Taryn Aiken Hiatt
Taryn is a dedicated advocate with a passion for changing the culture around mental health, suicide and substance use disorders. She is a loss survivor, losing her dad in 2002, and an attempt survivor who lives in recovery today. Taryn founded and is the executive director for the Utah Chapter of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. She has testified before congress in Washington DC to increase awareness and support for better access to mental health services and to promote healthy discussions about suicide. She is widely respected throughout the nation for her hard work and dedication to saving lives. Taryn is finishing the Master's in Social Work program at UVU and graduates in May 2024. Taryn believes in the power of human connection and is dedicated to preventing suicide.
Links from the Show:
- Donate to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: www.afsp.org
- Find a local support group through AFSP: https://afsp.org/find-a-local-chapter/
- Volunteer with AFSP: https://afsp.org/advocate-for-suicide-prevention/
- National Alliance of Mental Illness: https://www.nami.org/Home
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Over the years we’ve heard LGBTQ people say that they didn’t know what life might look like for them as an adult. Many haven’t had LGBTQ role models that provide examples of a potential future, and a lot of fear that parents of LGBTQ children experience comes from the unknown as well. We thought it might be helpful for parents to get to know some of the amazing members of the LGBTQ community, just a few at a time, so that they can provide a realistic view of what life could look like for our children. Today, Jen joins guests Sean Childers-Gray, Guy Berryessa, and Emily English in this episode of World of Possibility.
Special Guest: Guy Berryessa
Guy grew up mostly in conservative Provo, Utah, the fourth of four boys, and attended schools in Provo and briefly in Bangkok, Thailand, before attending college at BYU. He came out at 26 to his father and a year later, after a year of volunteer service in Nigeria, to his mother (who immediately threw up!) and almost everyone else. His parents eventually became great, supportive allies. Guy and Trey, his husband of 26 years, moved to San Francisco in 1997. They adopted their first child in Germany in 2002 and a second in San Francisco in 2010. They currently live primarily in Hawaii, but are often back to their San Francisco home, as their elder daughter attends Sonoma State.
Special Guest: Sean Childers-Gray
Sean Childers-Gray is a transgender man who grew up in Kearns, Utah, and co-founded a charity drag troupe called the Salt City Kings. He has a BA in graphic arts from Stevens-Henager and holds an MFA in media design. He has served as the President of Ogden Pride since 2020. In October 2021, he was honored with the Equality Utah Impact Award for Advancing Transgender Equality. Sean is a graphic designer and writer. He and his wife Sara are raising two queer teenagers, two huskies, and a cat named Todd. As an Educator in Higher Ed for over 15 years, Sean finds advocating for his students at Davis Tech College a priority as he continues his work for the LGBTQ+ community at large.
Special Guest: Emily English
Emily is a writer, teacher, and grant program specialist who lives in Bellingham, Washington. She is passionate about the rights and lives of young queer people. She adores her 5 boys and considers being their mother to be one of the great joys of her life. In her free time, she journals, writes, reads, and loves to go on adventures to odd and obscure places.
Links from the Show:
- Subscribe to Sean’s Substack here: https://seanchildersgray.substack.com/
- Find Sean on IG and X: @s_childersgray
- Sean on Behance: https://www.behance.net/seanchilders-gray
- Sean in PRINT: https://www.printmag.com/author/seanchildersgray/
- Join Mama Dragons today: mamadragons.org
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with Point Foundation Executive Director and CEO Jorge Valencia to discuss everything from his experiences growing up closeted and gay in a conservative religion in the South in the 80’s, to his time as president and executive director of the Trevor Project, to his current position as executive director and CEO of the Point Foundation, which offers both need and merit based scholarships to the LGBTQ community. Jorge’s passion to help LGBTQ youth comes through in this lively conversation about overcoming the barriers that queer youth face in today’s world.
Special Guest: Jorge Valencia
Jorge Valencia has served as the Point Foundation’s Executive Director and CEO since 2007. Point provides financial support, leadership training, and mentorship to queer US college students from around the world. Before that, Jorge served as President and Executive Director of The Trevor Project from 2001 — 2006. Jorge earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from Brigham Young University in 1989. As an openly gay man who grew up in a Mormon Latino family in Texas, Jorge has a keen personal awareness of many of the issues of rejection and marginalization faced by many LGBTQ youth. Jorge is fluent in English, Spanish, and Portuguese and is an accomplished public speaker. Jorge has a passion for helping LGBT youth and has an ability to communicate effectively with both the LGBTQ community and the general public.
Links from the Show:
- The Point Foundation: https://pointfoundation.org/
- The Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/
- Trevor Project Resources: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/
- Jorge’s bio at Point: https://pointfoundation.org/about/staff
- Jorge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jovalencia
- Jorge on X: https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fjvalencia
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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This week In the Den, Jen talks with LGBTQ/disability advocate Carson Tueller about his experiences surrounding the intersection of sexuality and disability. Carson talks about coming out as gay and the spinal cord injury that left him paralyzed. He also shares his thoughts on systemic ableism and offers valuable insights into sexual intimacy and vulnerability.
Special Guest: Carson Tueller
Carson Tueller is a coach, speaker, and writer whose transformational work explores and challenges our notions of freedom, identity, and radical self-discovery. Carson’s work began when the trajectory of his life changed in 2013 - not only did he come out and leave his lifelong Mormon faith, but he was also injured in an accident that left him paralyzed. Carson took what seemed to many like an insurmountable tragedy and turned it into the foundation of personal transformation. Carson is a prominent figure on social media, featured in major publications and award-winning podcasts, sharing his unique message with audiences worldwide. His diverse talents have taken him all over the globe, from speaking internationally to serving as a policy advisor for a major presidential campaign in 2020. Carson Tueller is more than just a coach and speaker - he's a catalyst for change.
Links from the Show:
- Carson’s coaching/speaking website: https://www.carsontueller.com/
- Carson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carsontueller/
- Carson on FB: https://www.facebook.com/carsonjtueller
- Carson on IG: https://www.instagram.com/carson_tueller/
- Join Mama Dragons: www.mamadragons.org
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Conversion therapy, sometimes called reparative therapy or sexual reorientation counseling, is an attempt to change a person's sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. There is broad consensus in the medical community that sexual orientation and gender identity are immutable traits and that attempts to change these characteristics through conversion therapy or other means are not only unnecessary and ineffective, but also very harmful. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Ryan Kendall about his experiences as a survivor of conversion therapy, his powerful testimony in California’s Proposition 8 trial, and his current career as a civil rights attorney, working to protect marginalized people and give everyone a fair shot.
**Special Guest: Ryan Kendall
Ryan is a survivor of conversion therapy who testified about his experiences in the Proposition 8 trial and in support of legislative bans in California, New York, and New Jersey. Ryan has worked as an advocate to eliminate conversion therapy, and his work has been featured in news stories, op-eds, scholarly articles, interviews, books, and theatrical performances. He is a graduate of Columbia University and the UCLA School of Law. Ryan is currently a civil rights attorney for the Systemic Impact Unit at Community Legal Aid SoCal.**
Links from the Show:
Content Warning–some links contain homophobic language and talk of conversion therapy.
- “8”: A Play About the Fight for Marriage Equality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlUG8F9uVgM
- Ryan’s testimony excerpt from 8: A Play About the Fight for Marriage Equality:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kwBzbd9bHQ
- Video of California’s Proposition 8 Case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgQKPGfKT84&list=PL83B3C0F7EC3ECDE4&index=34
- Born Perfect: https://www.nclrights.org/our-work/born-perfect/
- Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmkendall/recent-activity/all/
- Ryan’s bio on the website for National Center for Lesbian Rights: https://www.nclrights.org/about-us/who-we-are/ryan-kendall-2/
- California ban on conversion therapy: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-gaytherapy-idUSBRE88T0DR20120930
- Ryan’s story on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGG7_kKkT50
- Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.
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Words with Friends 9
Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
WPATH shared by Becky J. from Salt Lake City, Utah
ROGD shared by Pannay G. from Wisconsin
SRS/GCS shared by Melissa H. from Georgia
SOGIE shared by Heather G. from Southern Idaho
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EPISODE 45–A Closer Look at Ace/Aro Identities
There are misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding those who find themselves on the asexual (ace) and/or aromantic (aro) spectrums. In this episode of In the Den, Jen talks with special guests Grayson Moore and Kris Glad about what it means to be asexual and aromantic.
Special Guest: Grayson Moore
Grayson Moore (he/him) came out as transgender at age 16 (2011) and as asexual two years later. Grayson, alongside his mother Neca Allgood, worked with Equality Utah on extending Utah’s housing and employment nondiscrimination protections to cover sexual orientation and gender identity. He has also worked with Affirmation LGBTQ Mormons Family and Friends. Grayson currently lives in Michigan with his boyfriend and girlfriend. He enjoys cooking, singing, occasionally writing, and playing Factorio.
Special Guest: Kris Glad
Kris Glad (they/them) first came to their asexual identity at age 17 (2012). In the decade since, they've found their experience to be fluid with regards to where, precisely, they fall on the asexual and aromantic spectrums, and they've tried on many labels within the ace and aro community to understand their experience and communicate about it with the people in their life. These days, Kris gravitates towards the term 'demiromantic', but mostly just tells people they're somewhere on the ace and aro spectrums.
Kris has a degree in Gender Studies and Sociology from the University of Utah, and they enjoy nerding out on queer history, feminist theory, and any scholarship that helps them understand their own experience. In their free time, Kris can usually be found crafting - knitting, cross stitching, sewing, etc - probably while listening to a podcast.
Links from the show:
- Aces and Aros: https://acesandaros.org/
- The Asexuality Visibility and Education Network: https://www.asexuality.org/
- The Ace and Aro Advocacy Project: https://taaap.org/
- Join MamaDragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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We asked members of our group to share some of the most hurtful things that had been said to them or their LGBTQ children, even if the speaker’s intentions were good. The response was absolutely overwhelming. Some of the reported comments would be considered microaggressions and some were intentionally cruel. Just in time for all of the upcoming holiday gatherings, Jen brings back therapist Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen to talk through some common categories of microaggressions and possible ways to respond.
Special Guest: Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic in Provo, Utah, which she founded in 2017. Lisa received a B.S. from BYU in 1990 as valedictorian, an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative families/communities. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
Links from the Show:
- Flourish Therapy: https://flourishtherapy.org/
- Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with Emmy award-winning transgender filmmaker Asher May-Corsini as he discusses his experiences of pursuing a career in the American film industry. He shares some of his favorite memories in making the Mama Dragons documentary, and how that experience changed him forever. He also offers insights into what brings him fulfillment as a filmmaker and where he finds queer joy in his life.
Special Guest: Asher May-Corsini
Asher is a New York City native who fell in love with film after watching The Wizard of Oz as a child. He spent most of his adolescence with a camera in his hand, attending film school after film school. While his career has taken him on beautiful and unexpected adventures, he always believes that the best is yet to come. Asher has worked in media for over ten years and has a track record of proven successes in branded content and documentary film. Asher has established himself as a big-picture thinker and is known as someone who can be leaned on for creative ideation and problem-solving.
Asher has received tremendous acclaim for his varied work in the industry. His talent spans all production facets, from pre-production to field production to post-production. As a transgender man, Asher focuses much of his attention on LGBTQ+ issues and uses his platform to amplify LGBTQ+ people and their stories. Asher still spends his free time with a camera in his hand, waiting for the magic to happen.
Links from the Show:
- Asher’s website: https://www.maycorsini.com
- Great Big Story’s Mama Dragons Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34J95Ev3wy4
- Asher on IG: https://www.instagram.com/maycorsini/
- Documentary on Club Q: https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/club-found-love-lost-loved-100049217
- Join Mama Dragons today at: www.mamadragons.org
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Studies show that transgender and nonbinary people are three to six times more likely to have autism than their cisgender peers. Researchers are still trying to better understand the connection. This week In the Den**, Jen visits with occupational therapist Dr. Anne Kirby and Frank Vales, a trans and autistic student, about the intersection of the autism spectrum and gender diversity.
Special Guest: Dr. Anne Kirby**
Anne V. Kirby, PhD, OTR/L, is an associate professor in the Department of Occupational and Recreational Therapies at the University of Utah, with an adjunct appointment in the Department of Psychiatry. She received her BS and MS degrees from the University of New Hampshire, and then practiced as an occupational therapist in multiple settings in Washington, DC. She received her PhD in Occupational Science from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 2015, before becoming a faculty member at the University of Utah. Her research expertise is in sensory processing, the transition to adulthood, and suicide risk and prevention for the autistic community. She is currently leading a K23 award from NIMH using community based participatory research for suicide prevention, in partnership with the Academic Autism Spectrum Partnership in Research and Education (AASPIRE). She serves as a Consultant on the University of Pittsburgh ACE grant.
Special Guest: Frank Vales
**Frank Vales (he/him) is a 20-year-old student and artist born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah. He is studying communication and writing with plans to go into the field of applied linguistics. He is autistic, disabled, and Queer, and is passionate about advocacy and community engagement. He has extensive public speaking experience on the topics of LGBTQ+ youth, mental health, autism acceptance, and suicide prevention. He is particularly interested in the intersection of Queer, neurodivergent, and disabled experiences and identities. In his spare time, he enjoys taking care of his unusual pets, including snakes and exotic cockroaches, and studying Irish Gaelic.
Links from the show:**
- https://aaspire.org/projects/mental-health/suicidality/
- https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/lgbt.2018.0252
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415151/
- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30140984/
- https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17794-1
- https://faculty.utah.edu/u6002168-ANNE_V._KIRBY/research/index.hm
- https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/
- Join Mama Dragons today at: www.mamadragons.org
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In this episode of In the Den, American actor and musician Emmett Preciado visits with Jen about his experience growing up as a transgender boy in a conservative religion. He candidly talks about a range of topics from transition to his experiences with dating to experiencing Hollywood as a trans man. You won’t want to miss this thoughtful glimpse into Emmett’s life and the wisdom he’s gained through embracing his transgender identity.
Special Guest: Emmett Preciado
Emmett Preciado, formerly known as Emmett Claren, is an American transgender actor and singer-songwriter of Spanish, Mexican, and European descent. He was born in Merced, California, but grew up in Chilton, Wisconsin. Emmett grew up in, and served a full-time mission for, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. After briefly attending BYU Idaho, he dropped out to physically transition and to seriously pursue his acting career. Emmett is known for his role as Rowan on Freeform's Good Trouble, Rio Gutierrez on ABC’s The Good Doctor, and has worked with The Trevor Project and The National LGBTQ Task Force.
Links from the Show:
Emmett on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@emmettpreciado
Emmett on IG: https://www.instagram.com/emmettpreciado
Emmett on FB: https://www.facebook.com/emmettpreciado/
Emmett on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyx59LUSE0uhgqDSF0MzipA
Early documentary with Emmett: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzyroz1OgSA
New article about Emmett: https://www.emmettpreciado.com/p/news.html
Emmett’s website: https://www.emmettpreciado.com/
Emmett’s top surgery reaction video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hofq-y2WHHo&ab_channel=EmmettPreciado
Emmett dueting with himself pre-transition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Na68cO3_I&t=9s&ab_channel=EmmettPreciado
Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Intersex shared by Becky Johnson
Sex shared by Pam Theron
Gender shared by Barbara Proudfoot
Endosex shared by Rhonda Hill
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On this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Lupe Bartholomew, mother of American popstar David Archuleta. They discuss Lupe’s experience as a religiously devoted Latina mother of five. Lupe explains how having a child come out as gay in the world spotlight in 2021 changed her life and inspired her to become a public supporter of the LGBTQ community.
Special Guest: Lupe (Mayorga) Bartholomew
Lupe is American Idol finalist David Archuleta’s mother. Lupe, her mother, and her two sisters joined the LDS church in Honduras in 1978. Ultimately, Lupe and her family came to the United States to live the Mormon dream. Lupe lived as a very happy, fully believing, orthodox Mormon mother until her son David came out as gay in 2021.
Links from the Show:
David Archuleta’s website: https://davidarchuleta.com/
Find David on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidarchie/?hl=en
David on FB: https://www.facebook.com/davidarchuleta
Join Mama Dragons here: www.mamadragons.org
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Conversion therapy, also referred to as reparative therapy, attempts to change a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity and is not a legitimate form of therapy. Conversion therapy has been denounced by all major medical organizations, but continues to exist and cause harm to LGBTQ people throughout the world. In this episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Dr. Matt Salmon, a psychiatrist and author, about his experiences as a victim of conversion therapy as well as the broader impact of conversion therapy on queer people today.
Special Guest: Matt Salmon
Dr. Matt R. Salmon is a psychiatrist based in Washington, DC, specializing in child, adolescent, and adult mental health and a Master of Health and Public Interest. Matt is the manager of psychiatry at Whitman Walker Health and primarily treats LGBTQ+ young people who have been marginalized by structural bias. Matt's work is deeply influenced by lived experience, which includes growing up queer and neurodiverse in a Mormon household with a Republican congressman dad and undergoing conversion 'therapy' as a teen.
Matt is preparing to publish a book titled Pride & Prejudice: Healing Division in the Modern Family, which serves as both a memoir and a critique of societal norms that often harm LGBTQ+ individuals, especially within religious communities. In it, Matt uses personal and professional experience to advocate for embracing diversity and challenging our own biases so we can heal the divisions that harm us all. The book is set for publication in Spring 2024 and can be pre-ordered at: https://matt-salmon.presale.manuscripts.com.
Links from the show:
Preorder Matt’s book here: https://matt-salmon.presale.manuscripts.com.
Find Matt on IG: https://www.instagram.com/lovemattrs/
Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
Join Mama Dragons today www.mamadragons.org
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This week In the Den, Jen sits down with Jeffrey Marx to chat about a variety of topics, including Jeffrey’s fascinating career as a reality television casting director in Hollywood, his journey to winning an Emmy, embracing his body size, and finding queer joy amidst the challenges of life. It’s an episode you won’t want to miss!
**Special Guest: Jeffrey Marx
Jeffrey Marx is an Emmy Award-winning casting producer for reality television. Notable credits include HBO’s We’re Here, Love on the Spectrum, MTV’s The Real Word, Nailed It! and more. Before his career in TV, he followed in his mother’s footsteps as a special education teacher. Jeffrey got his start in casting when he was cast as a player in “The Glass House”, which is still streaming on the ABC app. He went toe-to-toe with a very kind Mormon mother over gay marriage on the show and, later that year, became boyfriends with a man from a very devout Mormon family. Although they aren’t together anymore, Jeffrey’s experiences with the LDS community have shaped how he approaches casting queer stories today. Now happily partnered with a non-Mormon boyfriend in Los Angeles, Jeffrey reflects on the dynamics of love, faith, and what “family” means to LGBTQ folks.
Links from the Show:**
- Article about Jeffrey: https://metrosource.com/jeffrey-marx-has-a-colorful-path-to-an-emmy/?fbclid=PAAaYRdn_P-B1dDUosbHwoPyHcoRrEJz9NLyvR3T6hsm-Xcsv9Dt49U_usUwM_aem_AVJYuwAcrMH6MCULFtsS5FUdY7fUUrYD4nQJdtzCDWARK2kpQja_Ix2LwbvuY8a_OLQ
- Link to Jeffrey’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/jeffmarxthespot/?hl=en
- Join Mama Dragons: www.mamadragons.org
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen joins guest Blaire Ostler to discuss intersex conditions. As an intersex person herself, Blaire is uniquely positioned to not only share information about many aspects of intersex conditions, but also give personal insight into life as an intersex person. The discussion ranges from when intersex conditions are most often diagnosed to the potential impact of trans legislation on people with intersex conditions to the problematic nature of surgeries done on intersex infants and children. Don’t miss this valuable introduction to a better understanding of what it means to be intersex.
**Special Guest: Blaire Ostler
Blaire is a philosopher specializing in queer and Mormon studies, and is a leading voice at the intersection of queer, Mormon, and transhumanist thought. She is the author of “Queer Mormon Theology: An Introduction.” Blaire is also an artist and poet, and spends her spare time hiking, painting, writing, and bickering with her friends about almost any topic imaginable. Blaire lives in Utah with her husband and their three children.
Links from the Show:**
- Blaire’s website: http://www.blaireostler.com/
- Find Blaire on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blaire.ostler
- Blaire’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/Queer-Mormon-Theology-Blaire-Ostler/dp/1948218410
- Join Mama Dragons today at: www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
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Over the years we’ve heard LGBTQ people say that they didn’t know what life might look like for them as an adult. Many haven’t had LGBTQ role models that provide examples of a potential future, and a lot of fear that parents of LGBTQ children experience comes from the unknown as well. We thought it might be helpful for parents to get to know some of the amazing members of the LGBTQ community, just a few at a time, so that they can provide a realistic view of what life could look like for our children. Today, Jen joins guests Marshall Shearer, Craig Watts, and Candice Green in this episode of World of Possibility. Special Guest: Marshall Shearer
Marshall is a proud trans man who's been living life to the fullest for the past 8 years since transitioning. When he’s not busy being an awesome dad to five adopted kids, aged 14 to 24, or spoiling his adorable 2-year-old grandson, you can find him crushing it at board games, giving his all on the softball field, or just soaking up the sun at the beach. Marshall’s a foster care superhero with 11 years under his belt and 10 placements along the way. Life's a journey, and he’s loving every moment of it!
Special Guest: Craig Watts
Craig grew up in a conservative Christian community in Utah, where everyone he knew lived in traditional families. When he realized he was gay at 18, he thought he'd never have kids or have a place in his community. So, after completing a Master's Degree in Chicago, Craig ran away to Asia and spent the next two decades as an out gay man living and working in Japan and China before deciding to have kids via surrogacy. Craig had hoped to find a partner before becoming a parent, but he had strong support from his parents and siblings, and the biological clock was ticking, so he took the solo parent plunge at age 46. A Bangkok-based clinic helped Craig find a Thai egg donor and surrogate mothers for his three kids who are now aged 11 and 9 (twins). Craig and his kids lived for a few years in Beijing, then moved home to his parents' basement in Utah, and now live in the heart of San Francisco. They attend a Chinese immersion school where Craig teaches 7th grade. It's been a tough decade, but Craig loves being a parent even when the kids gang up on him!
Special Guest: Candice Green
Candice is a High School English teacher and mother of two. She loves Marvel movies, her book club, and going on adventures with her friends and kids.
Links from the show:
Utah Foster Care’s LGBT Resource Page: utahfostercare.org/lgbt
Join Mama Dragons today www.mamadragons.org
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Nonbinary, shared by Shauna from Idaho, USA
Bigender, shared by Marnie Lobban from Australia
Agender, shared by Mel Fraze from California
Gender Diverse, shared by Zane Bates from Colorado
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EPISODE 35–Just the FAQs 4
In this episode of In the Den, Jen joins therapists Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen, Laura Skaggs, and David Zealy-Wright to answer a handful of frequently asked questions regarding parenting an LGBTQ child.
I’m trying to support my child, but I don’t know if I’m doing enough?/How do I support my child without dragging them along too quickly?
* What advice do you offer to people who have family members who are not able to be affirming to their children?
* “My child just told me that they are ______ and I’m afraid they were molested or assaulted?
* We know that LGBTQ people are hit with things like microaggressions and major aggressions every day. Do you have ideas or thoughts that might help them prepare kids to handle these things in ways that are healthy for them?*
Special Guest: Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic in Provo, Utah, which she founded in 2017 to meet the needs of LGBTQ+ individuals and their families. Lisa received a B.S. from Brigham Young University in 1990 as university valedictorian (Summa Cum Laude with Honors thesis), an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative families and communities. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
**Special Guest: Laura Skaggs
Laura Skaggs is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in treating spiritual trauma at the intersection of LGBTQ+ experiences and religion. Laura earned her master’s degree in marriage and family therapy at San Diego State University with an emphasis in LGBTQ+ mental health within conservative religious social contexts. Laura is also the co-creator of CWEERS Empowerment groups: a practice designed to help LGBTQ+ individuals and their supporters confront social discrimination and internalized stigma. Laura is the mother of two daughters and presently sees clients full time in Provo, UT, as part of Flourish Therapy.
Special Guest: David Zealy-Wright
David is a Licensed Professional Counselor (Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor), a Licensed Clinical Addictions Specialist, and a Clinical Supervisor Intern(Certified Clinical Supervisor). He graduated from Catawba Valley Community College in 2005 earning an Associate in Arts, Lenoir-Rhyne University in 2008 earning a BA in Psychology, and in 2010 an MA in Agency Counseling. His specialty areas include addiction, depression, anxiety, life changes, men’s issues, relationships, and LGBTQIA issues. As an addictions specialist, he believes that addiction is a disorder, not a moral failing. David is a native of Greensboro, North Carolina, but has lived in Hickory for over 23 years with his spouse.
Links from the show:
Flourish Therapy: https://www.flourishtherapy.org/
Find David on LinkedIn:** Connect with Mama Dragons:
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Eating disorders occur at dramatically higher rates within the LGBTQ community than heterosexual/cisgender populations. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Caden Jones about different eating disorders and the intersection of those disorders with queer identities. They discuss the challenges of recognizing an eating disorder and ways to find the best treatment for our LGBTQ child’s disordered eating once we become aware of the problem.
Special Guest: Caden Jones
Caden has a Masters in Counseling Psychology, and is a fourth year PsyD student pursuing a doctorate in counseling psychology at Northwest University. Currently, Caden is a pre-intern for Dr. Monique Lowe, PhD, engaging in neuropsychological evaluation for ADHD, ASD, TBI's and learning disorders. Caden Jones is also an associate mental health counselor at Center for Discovery, offering therapeutic services at Residential, Intensive Outpatient, and Partial Hospitalization levels of care for adults and children of all genders who are pursuing eating disorder recovery. He also runs a private practice in Bellevue offering trauma informed care for individuals and couples. Caden has been in recovery from an eating disorder for over ten years, and seeks to aid others in their healing journey from eating disorders. He is especially passionate about the intricate experience of transness and eating disorders, as the two are often comorbid and compounding.
Links from the Show:
Center for Discovery: https://centerfordiscovery.com/
LGBTQ Eating Disorders: https://centerfordiscovery.com/blog/eating-disorder-discrimination-lgbt-community/
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In this week’s insightful episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with award-winning writer, director, and producer Jay Randall to discuss a wide range of topics from Jay’s experiences growing up as a gay kid in a highly religious family in the South in the 90’s to his time working on the massively popular Ru Paul’s Drag Race. Jay and Jen discuss the importance of seeing queer representation in the media and the complexities of rainbow capitalism.
Special Guest: Jay Randall
Jay began his career working on both the original and digital programming teams at LOGO, where he contributed to the 27-time Emmy Award winning RuPaul’s Drag Race, or as he likes to call it: the best show on television.
Currently, he is an associate creative director at Paramount Brand Studio, where he makes work for ad partners across Paramount Global’s vast library of channels and platforms. Jay also serves on the board of Proud, Paramount’s employee resource group that provides support for LGBTQ+ employees and shapes content across the company through a queer lens.
Jay grew up in Mississippi, but now lives in Harlem, NYC. He is a theatre fanatic, laughs all the time and is known amongst his friends for his legendary fried chicken.
Jay is happiest when he is creating.
Links from the show:
Find Jay here: http://jay-randall.squarespace.com/about
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Raising LGBTQ children comes with a whole set of unique parenting challenges and opportunities. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with parent and author Tammy Plunkett about parenting queer children. From advocacy at school to coming out to extended family and friends to setting and maintaining healthy boundaries, Jen and Tammy cover a variety of topics that impact parents of LGBTQ children in this information packed episode.
Special Guest:
Tammy Plunkett is, first and foremost, the mom of four amazing kids. All four identify within the LGBTQIA+ acronym. Her children are a huge reason that she is an advocate in the community. Tammy is a certified life coach, author of the book Beyond Pronouns: The Essential Guide for Parents of Trans Children, and a speaker who began her career as a registered nurse. She has volunteered on the board of directors with Airdrie Pride for over five years, where she launched a peer-led support group. Her freelance work has appeared in Today’s Parent, HuffPost and LGBTQ Nation, and she’s appeared on national television on The Doctors, The Social and The Marilyn Denis Show, Global Radio, CBC Radio, local television and press, and The Spectator UK podcast.
Links from the show:
- Tammy’s website: https://www.tammyplunkett.com/
- Find Tammy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tammyplunkett/
- Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Asexual (Ace) shared by Marie Mulling from Texas
Aromantic (Aro) shared by Roxana Reguera from California
Allosexual shared by Tracey Anne from Scotland
Demisexual shared by Amy Hutchisson
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Many conversations assume that LGBTQ people and religious people are two separate identity groups. There is a heteronormative religious culture that falsely claims that queer people can’t be religious or spiritual. Some queer people absolutely need to walk away from religion in order to heal and become whole, but others are seeking a spiritual path that is different from what they grew up with. Dr. Nick Literski joins Jen on today’s episode of In the Den to talk about how to rediscover a personal spirituality that is unique, expansive, and LGBTQ inclusive.
Special Guest:
Nicholas S. Literski, JD, PhD, is an Adjunct Senior Lecturer in Psychology at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and a professional spiritual guide. Nick holds a doctorate in Depth Psychology with Emphasis in Jungian and Archetypal Studies from Pacifica Graduate Institute, as well as a master’s in Spiritual Guidance from Sofia University. Their research interests include in depth psychological reflections on spirituality, Paleolithic cave art, sexual orientation, and gender identity. Nick’s work has been published in the FARMS Review of Books on The Book of Mormon; Psychological Perspectives: A Quarterly Journal of Jungian Thought;Immanence: The Journal of Applied Mythology, Legend, and Folklore; Somatics Magazine-Journal of the Mind-Body Arts and Sciences; and the recent compilation, The Reality of Fragmentation and the Yearning for Healing: Jungian Perspectives on Democracy, Power, and Illusion in Contemporary Politics. Their recent book, Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration, was published by Greg Kofford Books in 2022.
Links from the show:
- Five Steps to Rediscovering Spirituality as an LGBT Person: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/five-steps-to-rediscoveri_b_8373220
- Dr. Literski’s website: https://www.dancingancestors.com/
- Join MamaDragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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n this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen chats with three drag performers from different parts of the United States. They break down some of the misconceptions around drag and look at the benefits and beauty of the world of drag.
Special guests:
Marty McGuy is a drag king from Columbia, South Carolina. In Marty’s day job, he is committed to helping the quality of care and education of the children of South Carolina. Marty also ran an online DRAG Activity time during the pandemic on YouTube and Facebook weekly for his local LGBT+ Resource Center, The Harriet Hancock Center. Now they often volunteer for Charlotte Drag Story Hour for in person events. Marty also is a fierce advocate for Drag King visibility. They help host drag shows across Columbia, SC with his drag partner, Han D Mann, called Columbia Kings N’ Things.
Brandon U. Scott was a hairstylist for 21 years. When we all hit the brakes due to COVID-19, he decided to take on a second act in life and began the journey of becoming a Social Worker. He is currently starting his Senior year at University and plans to start their master’s degree program in May 2024. Brandon hopes to one day bring affirming care to LGBTQI communities in rural areas after obtaining his clinical license.
DeVida, the self proclaimed Broadway Belter of the Bible Belt is an education and mental health professional by day and a Broadway drag diva by night. DeVida is known for her live vocals, creative performances, and glamorous style. DeVida is a former Miss Gay NC America and Miss Charlotte Pride as well as a tireless community advocate. When not performing or working, DeVida is happy to be at home with her husband of twenty four years and their ten year old son.
Links from the show:
Marty on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@martymcguydragking
* Marty on IG: https://www.instagram.com/martymcguydragking/?hl=en
* Kings n Things: https://www.tiktok.com/@colakingsnthings
* Devida on IG: https://www.instagram.com/livingdevidaloca/
* Devida on FB: https://www.facebook.com/livingdevidaloca
* Devida on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@livingdevidaloca
* The Cardboard Castle: https://thecardboardcastle.net/
* Join MamaDragons today at www.mamadragons.org*
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Finding out your child is LGBTQ can bring up different emotions for different parents. For many, expectations have to change, beliefs may be challenged, and what you thought you knew about your child may have to evolve. In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with therapist Liz Landry about some of the challenges of parenting and how to move from tolerating to celebrating your LGBTQ child.
Special Guest:
Liz Landry has a master's degree in clinical social work and a bachelor's degree in biochemistry. She worked in community mental health for six years, and she now works in private practice psychotherapy. Liz believes everyone is deserving of a fulfilling life through mental and emotional freedom. As part of the LGBTQ+ community, she is committed to creating a space that is safe and affirming to help dismantle beliefs that have caused shame, anxiety, guilt, or distress. She grew up in the “Bible Belt” of the South, and she has multiple family members still active in the LDS church. Liz knows firsthand how damaging and stifling oppressive systems can be. Therefore, she is also committed to dismantling white supremacy, misogyny, misogynoir, and hetero-normative culture, both in her therapeutic work and her personal activism.
Links from the Show:
Episode on Ring Theory and finding parental support: https://inthedenwithmamadragons.buzzsprout.com/2082774/12088608-ring-theory-and-finding-parental-support
Find Liz here: https://optimismcounseling.com/liz-landry
Join MamaDragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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Over the years we’ve heard LGBTQ people say that they didn’t know what life might look like for them as an adult. Many haven’t had LGBTQ role models that provide examples of a potential future, and a lot of fear that parents of LGBTQ children experience comes from the unknown as well. We thought it might be helpful for parents to get to know some of the amazing members of the LGBTQ community, just a few at a time, so that they can provide a realistic view of what life could look like for our children. Today, Jen joins guests Melissa Soper, Whittney Chilcote, and Valerie Green in this episode of World of Possibility.
Special Guests:
Melissa Soper (she/her) is a mom to four wonderful kids. She has an amazingly awesome wife, Whitt, who she is excited to adventure with together in life. Soper loves the mountains and trail running. She loves to take on a challenge and has completed multiple ultra-marathons. Soper currently works with adolescents and young adults at a residential treatment center and is venturing to earn her Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling with the prospects of being a therapist for LGBTQ teens.
Whittney Chilcote (she/her) is a mom to three incredible souls that she got lucky to have as kids. She recently got married to her crazy beautiful, adventure seeking wife Soper, and she cannot imagine all the crazy and amazing things she is going to have them do together. Whitt has always loved traveling and seeing all that this crazy world has to offer. Born and raised in Utah, she absolutely loves the mountains and lakes and all the seasons they get every year! Whitt has spent the last 8 years of her life working with youth in West Valley, where she has learned so much about trauma, resilience, and what unconditional love means.
Valerie Green (she/her) is a transgender woman who is active in her ward of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Missouri. Before transitioning, she was married for 34 years and is now widowed. She is a parent to five children and grandparent to six grandchildren. After five decades of waiting, she has been fully socially transitioned since January 1, 2019. She loves tennis and pickles (and her family when they're behaving).
Links From the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons at www.mamadragons.org
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Gender Identity shared by Julie Turnbull from Washington
Gender Dysphoria shared by Arlo Dennis from Florida
Gender Presentation shared by Pannay Guigley from Wisconsin
Stealth/Passingshared by Lisa Renaud from Ontario, Canada
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During many of our episodes, we drop the name of our organization–Mama Dragons. We answer questions that are asked in our groups, and we discuss the themes that most often show up by those who seek support. However, some people might get connected to the podcast but not understand who the Mama Dragons are. This week, we’re going to talk about where Mama Dragons came from, where we are now, and allow listeners to better understand who we are as an organization and why we do what we do.
Special Guests: Yvette Barrus Zobell, Neca Allgood, Julie Turnbull, Wendy VonSosen, Celeste Carolin, and Cameo Sherman.
Links from the show:
History of Mama Dragons: https://www.mamadragons.org/history-of-mama-dragons
About Mama Dragons: https://www.mamadragons.org/about
Mama Dragons Programs: https://www.mamadragons.org/programs
Shop Mama Dragons: https://www.mamadragons.org/shop-2
Mama Dragons fundraising: https://www.mamadragons.org/s-projects-basic
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Jen sits down with a panel of parents of young transgender children to discuss the realities of raising young trans kids in the world today. From real talk about the fears they have for their children’s safety to the surprising and unique joys of raising transgender children to everything in between, this episode provides a behind the scenes glimpse into the lives of young transgender children and the parents who affirm, love, and raise them.
Links from the show:
Some articles about Dempsey and the Jara Family:
- https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/she-said-i-am-a-girl-in-my-heart-and-brain-she-had-to-be-physically-restrained-for-haircuts-i-felt-guilty-mom-advocates-for-transgender-daughter-she-blossomed-before-our-eyes/
- https://www.them.us/story/mother-trans-daughter-florida-bill-op-ed
- https://www.mamadragons.org/post/our-trans-parent-journey
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7673229/Mother-accused-CHILD-ABUSE-raising-daughter-transgender.html
Transcripts for show episodes can be found here: https://inthedenwithmamadragons.buzzsprout.com/
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What makes a person a woman? What makes someone a man? What is the difference between sex and gender? Is gender a social construct or a biological reality? In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with philosopher Zane Thomas as they delve into these questions and more. Philosophical gender studies seek to identify truths in regards to gender, including the history and evolution of gender roles, our perceptions around gender, linguistic nuances surrounding gender, and our growing understanding of what gender means and how it influences our lives.
Special Guest: Zane Thomas
Zane first fell in love with the practice of Philosophy at BYU and graduated with their Bachelor's in Philosophy from Southern Virginia University in 2021. They are currently applying to a number of Master's programs with the hopes of teaching Philosophy with an emphasis in political philosophy, and the philosophy of science. Zane is 27 years old, non-binary, and lives in Seattle with their fiance and two dogs (a border-Aussie, and a blind Aussie-Catahoula mix). They enjoy reading, playing video games, and baking gluten-free pastries. Zane first started researching the philosophy of gender in college with a reading group started by one of their peers. This group, and later study, helped them to see the continuum of gender and sex, and recognize that they did not fit into either of the traditional gender binaries. They are truly a philosopher at heart, and their attempts to label and define their own experience with gender continues to motivate their studies in the realm of gender and social roles.
Links from the show:
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Transgender people have been forced into the national spotlight in recent years, as everyone from state legislatures to random strangers on the internet debate their identities, their access to medications, their health, their rights, their bodies, and more. There is a staggering amount of misinformation and disinformation being circulated about what it means to be transgender and to transition. Jen joins Dr. Rixt Luikenaar, a board certified OB/GYN who specializes in transgender hormone therapy and LGBTQ health care, including pregnancy and preventive care, and they get into the details around transitioning and trans health. This information-dense episode shares the truth about what it means to transition as a transgender person.
Special Guest: Dr. Rixt Luikenaar (they/them)
Dr. Rixt A. Luikenaar is a board-certified OB/GYN at Rebirth Health Center in Salt Lake City, Utah. They have a special interest in transgender hormone therapy and LGBTQ health care, including pregnancy and preventive care. Dr. Luikenaar received their medical degree from the University of Groningen Medical Sciences in Groningen, The Netherlands, graduating cum laude. They have a diverse background and have completed medical missions to Tanzania and Colombia and worked as a senior medical officer in OB/GYN in Cairns, Australia, during a sabbatical, taking care of indigenous Australians. Some fun facts about Dr. Luikenaar: they are from the Netherlands, they’re married with two children, and they love Sphynx cats, electronic dance music, and raves.
Links from the show:
Rebirth Health Center: https://www.rebirthhealthcenter.com
Dr. Luikenaar’s awards and certifications: https://www.rebirthhealthcenter.com/contents/about-practice/awards
WPATH website: https://www.wpath.org/
WPATH Standards of Care: https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc
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CONTENT WARNING: This episode includes talk of suicide, self harm, and suicidal ideation.
It’s a very special Just the FAQs episode at In the Den, because we have a panel made up entirely of licensed therapists to answer some of our most frequently asked questions regarding parenting an LGBTQ child. Jen brings back past podcast guests Dianne Piggott, Cole Brennan, and Laura Skaggs, and asks them to share their wisdom from working as therapists for LGBTQ clients, as well as being members of the queer community themselves.
- A lot of LGBTQ people are at high risk of self-harming and other maladaptive behaviors including suicidal ideation. Can you talk a little about this reality and what families can do to help mitigate those risks?
- How can parents get out of their own panic and shame in order to be more effective in helping their kids who are struggling?
- An issue that comes up a lot for our members is the idea that their child is continuously being tossed to and fro in a culture that doesn’t always understand them. Do you have good ideas about helping build resiliency?
- Do you have ideas that you suggest to families of things that can help ease the discomfort or pain of dysphoria?
- How on earth should parents safely navigate the world of sleepovers with their queer kids?
- The rates of autism are really high in the transgender community. I know that nobody really knows why this is, but given your personal experience with this client population, do you have insights that might help parents know if they should be checking for one if the other is present?
Links from the show:
Mama Dragons website: www.mamadragons.org
Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
The Family Acceptance Project: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Reverend Adam Ericksen as he breaks down some of the most common theology surrounding LGBTQ folks today. Reconciling theological beliefs with our desires to support our LGBTQ child is often a significant part of the journey for religious parents when their child comes out as LGBTQ. Deconstructing theology can be a big hurdle when it comes to loving and celebrating our kids. We have a large number of listeners who are processing religious trauma, and Pastor Adam offers insight and counsel on ways to engage with theology and religion in affirming and healing ways. Holding on to our faith and supporting our queer kids do not have to be mutually exclusive, and both can be part of our journeys.
Special Guest: Reverend Adam Ericksen
Rev. Adam Ericksen has served as the Clackamas United Church of Christ’s Pastor since 2018. He is a graduate of Linfield College where he majored in Religious Studies. Adam earned a Masters in Theological Studies from Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary He enjoys writing for the Raven Foundation website and the Sojourners blog. He also likes coaching his son’s soccer and basketball teams, making breakfast, long walks on the beach, and his favorite dessert is still chocolate chip cookies and milk.
Links from the show:
International Journal of Research in Humanities and Social Studies paper:
https://www.ijrhss.org/papers/v8-i3/4.pdf
Find Pastor Adam on Twitter: https://twitter.com/adamericksen?lang=en
Adam on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@adamericksen1?lang=en
Adam’s book Unlearn the Bible: https://mailchi.mp/ravenfoundation.org/unlearn-the-bible-ebook
Clackamas United Church of Christ: https://c-ucc.org/
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Cisgender shared by Clare McFadden
AFAB shared by Melissa Hardin
AMAB shared by Heather Gooding
Two Spiritshared by Sheri Proctor
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Being a teenager can be really hard. Being a transgender teen comes with its own unique set of challenges and obstacles. Following last week’s trans-focused episode of In the Den, Jen is back this week with another group of amazing trans teenagers. They discuss the highs and lows that come with being a transgender teenager in the world today. Listen to this informative conversation to better understand trans youth, their experiences, hopes, and dreams, and how you can love and support them now.
Links from the Show:
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Most of the anti-LGBTQ legislation happening this year in the United States is focused on one particular group–transgender children and teens. So much misinformation and disinformation are being spread about this specific marginalized demographic of kids. On this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen goes straight to the source. She sits down with several transgender teenagers and asks them questions about their lives, their passions, their fears, their transitions, and their hopes for the future of the world that they inhabit. Don’t miss this important episode!
Links from the Show:
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with community organizer and political activist Chelsea Gaona-Lincoln about strategies to find balance while advocating for our queer children, particularly during the legislative season where so many bills are being introduced that could harm our kids. They discuss ways to practice self-care and maintain balance between advocacy and home life, along with stressing the importance of modeling resilience and self-care for our children.
Special Guest: Chelsea Gaona-Lincoln
Chelsea is a queer, Chicana, proud momma and wife, born on the ancestral lands of the
Shoshone Bannock and Paiute people, known now as the Treasure Valley. After receiving her BA in psychology and minor in education from the College of Idaho, Chelsea spent 18 years in the mental health field, the majority of it as a behavioral therapist with neurodivergent youth, while building up her political stamina in her spare time. She currently works as a lobbyist and consultant in community centric organizing and political advocacy. She is also a birth doula and reiki practitioner.
Chelsea serves as the Executive Director for the statewide- volunteer run non profit, Add the Words, Idaho. What was initially formed as a PAC with a one piece of legislation focus, (adding “sexual orientation and gender identity,” to the Idaho Human Rights Act), Chelsea flipped into a community centric non profit doing mutual aid work, community education and statewide advocacy; while moving through an intersectional and radically inclusive lens.
Links from the Show:
Chelsea’s website: https://www.liberationinmotion.com/
Add the Words, Idaho: https://www.addthewords.org/
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Over the years we’ve heard LGBTQ people say that they didn’t know what life might look like for them as an adult. Many haven’t had LGBTQ role models that provide examples of a potential future, and a lot of fear that parents of LGBTQ children experience comes from the unknown as well. We thought it might be helpful for parents to get to know some of the amazing members of the LGBTQ community, just a few at a time, so that they can provide a realistic view of what life could look like for our children. Today, Jen joins guests Brandon Connolly, Mikayla Connolly, and Melissa-Malcolm King in the second episode of World of Possibility.
Special Guests:
Mikayla Connolly (she/her) is a Licensed Mastered Social Worker and advocate for the LGBTQ community.
Brandon Connolly (he/him) is a community activist and LGBTQ+ advocate in Southern Idaho. He’s passionate about educating others on LGBTQ+ issues and is the President of Southern Idaho Pride.
Melissa-Malcolm King (she/they) is an author, educator, and community leader. In 2023, Melissa-Malcolm became the first woman and person of color elected to be President of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, Families, and Friends. As a survivor of abuse, Melissa-Malcolm has appeared on multiple panels to advocate for survivor rights and discuss the intersection of being a Queer, Disabled, and Person of Color. Melissa-Malcolm advocates and supports inclusion rights in the disabled community as a proud and active board member of the Disability Rights Action Committee (D.R.A.C.) and American Disabled for Attendant Programs Today (A.D.A.P.T.) that support advocacy, community awareness programming, and lobbying for equitable laws that protect the rights of Disabled Individuals both on the state and national level.
Links From the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons at www.mamadragons.org
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Join Jen as she sits down with sex therapist Dr. Cami Hurst to discuss the topics of safe sex and sex education for our queer kids. Cami presents the foundations of sexual health, including consent, non-exploitation, mutual pleasure, protection from STIs and unwanted pregnancy, honesty, and shared values. Don’t miss this information packed episode, full of valuable resources and wisdom for parents everywhere.
Special Guest: Cami Hurst
Dr. Cami Hurst is a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified sex therapist in Meridian, ID. Cami operates a private practice offering therapy, coaching, and online small group education. She is a founder and current President of the Idaho Association of Sexual Health Professionals (ISHP). She is the host of the Sex Therapy 101 podcast. She holds a Master’s Degree in Marriage, Couple, and Family Therapy and a PhD in Clinical Sexology. Cami is passionate about helping couples and individuals improve their relational and sexual health. As a Mama Dragon herself, Cami finds extra fulfillment in working with members of the LGBTQ community and their families.
Links from the Show:
- It’s Perfectly Normal by Robbie Harris: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Perfectly-Normal-Changing-Growing/dp/0763644846
- It’s So Amazing by Robbie Harris: https://www.amazon.com/Its-So-Amazing-Families-Library/dp/0763668745
- It’s Not the Stork by Robbie Harris: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Stork-Families-Friends/dp/0763633313
- Who Has What?: All About Girls’ Bodies and Boys’ Bodies by Robbie Harris: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Stork-Families-Friends/dp/0763633313
- The Pride Guide by Jo Langford: https://www.amazon.com/Pride-Guide-Sexual-Social-Health/dp/1538144158
- Cami’s website: camihurst.com
- For Hers: www.forhers.com
- For Hims: www.forhims.com
- mistr (PrEP provider): https://heymistr.com/
- Cami’s podcast Sex Therapy 101: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sex-therapy-101-with-cami-hurst/id1487731899
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Bixsexual shared by Marnie Lobban
Pansexual shared by Tracey Anne from Scotland
Lesbian shared by Steph Leanne from Mississippi
Pregnancy (queer potential)shared by Shauna Jones from Idaho
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with Denver-based therapist Cole Brennen about his experiences coming out as trans himself 25 years ago, changes in society’s perceptions of trans people over that time, and what parents can do to support and nurture their queer children today.
Special Guest: Cole Brennen
Cole Brennan is a queer and transgender mental health therapist, owner of HeartMind Therapy in Denver, former bike mechanic and youth outdoor educator, and lover of nature, adventures, and above all, people. Cole works primarily with LGBTQ+ identified youth and adults, and has a passion for helping his clients find their innate love and joy for themselves, their many identities, and the world around them. Cole lives in Denver, Colorado with his partner, two young children, and two equally young pups.
Links from the show:
Cole’s therapy practice: https://www.heartmindtherapydenver.com/about
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In this episode of In the Den, Jen brings back past guests Lori Davis, Shauna Jones, Neca Allgood, and Laura Skaggs to answer some frequently asked questions regarding parenting an LGBTQ child.
- What do I do if my partner/co-parent isn’t supportive of my child?
- Why does my child say they are a boy but wear dresses and makeup? What’s the difference between gender identity and expression?
- How do I protect my child, both physically and emotionally?
- How do I respect my child’s reality without “outing” them as we move through the world?
Links from the show:
Mama Dragons website: www.mamadragons.org
Mama Dragons on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons
Mama Dragons on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themamadragons/
The Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
More Family Acceptance Project: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/
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With the tidal wave of anti-transgender legislation currently sweeping the United States, there is an overabundance of misinformation and disinformation circulating about what transitioning is and what it means. To be clear, some trans people never transition in any way, and transitioning is not a requirement of being transgender. Some trans people may utilize certain aspects of transitioning and not others. Social, medical, and legal transitions are very distinct forms of transitioning, but they are often conflated and hyperbolized in conversations around transitioning. Jen sits down with trans therapist Dianne Piggot to sort through common misunderstandings surrounding transitioning, what transition actually means, and what different types of transitions might look like.
Special Guest: Dianne Piggott
Dianne Piggott is a counselor in Boise, Idaho, who primarily works with transgender people. As a member of the transgender community herself, she has both studied and experienced the situations and has a unique perspective. She works from a strength based and deeply empathetic place to give clients a safe place to explore who they are.
Links from the show:
Dianne’s Counseling Practice: https://www.piggottcounseling.com/
Additional resources on transitioning:
- https://www.healthgrades.com/right-care/symptoms-and-conditions/8-common-misunderstandings-about-gender-transition
- https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/transgender/what-do-i-need-know-about-transitioning
- https://transcare.ucsf.edu/transition-roadmap
Fact checking myths around transitioning: https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/fact-checking-common-myths-transition-related-care-trans-people
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Many religious spaces can be fraught for LGBTQ people of faith and those who love them. Scripture and theology are all too often used to harm instead of heal, especially when it comes to our queer congregants. Pastor Stan Mitchell sits down with Jen to talk about how religious theology has hurt and wounded the LGBTQ community, and how we can lean on and expand our faith to find peace, hope, and healing amid a sometimes tumultuous spiritual journey of love and acceptance of our LGBTQ children and ourselves.
Special Guest: Stan Mitchell
Stan Mitchell is the Founding Pastor/Pastor Emeritus of GracePointe Church in Nashville, Tennessee, having served as its Lead Pastor from 2003 through 2019. In 2015, GP made the move to the full affirmation and celebration of LGBTQ+ people. Prior to this he was the Teaching Pastor at Christ Church also in Nashville, Tennessee. He spends his vocational time now as a speaker, LGBTQ+ advocate/pastor, and consultant within the Progressive Christian movement.
Links from the show:
Find Stan on FB: https://www.facebook.com/stan.mitchell.58
Stan on IG: https://www.instagram.com/pastorstanmitchell/
GracePointe: https://www.gracepointe.net/about-us
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It can be a confusing and even frustrating experience for parents when their LGBTQ child changes how they label their identity. It’s important to understand that it is very common for LGBTQ young people to find a label for themselves and to later change that label to something else down the road. What does label changing mean, and how can we fully support our children when we don’t understand certain labels? Does changing labels mean that it’s all really just a phase? In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Elizabeth Johnson about the importance and usefulness of labels within the LGBTQ spectrum of experience and why those labels might change along the way.
Special Guest: Elizabeth Johnson
Elizabeth Johnson is a widowed mom of four adult children (three of whom are bisexual), a transgender son-in-law, a non-binary "bonus kiddo," and one grandson. She has been active with Mama Dragons since 2020 as a member of the marketing team, and was part of the education team that developed the first Parachute course, Intro to Understanding Your LGBTQ Child. She lives in Michigan where she is active in choir, community theater, and her local Optimist Club.
Links from the show:
Elizabeth’s Mama Dragons article on labels: https://www.mamadragons.org/post/why-does-my-child-keep-changing-their-labels
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The 2023 legislative season is here, and there are a record-breaking 299 anti-LGBTQ bills being proposed across the nation, most attacking transgender young people. The complex nature of the legislative process, along with the overwhelming number of bills being presented, may lead parents of LGBTQ children to feel discouraged and overwhelmed, but we’re here to help. On this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen sits down with policy advocate Sue Robbins to discuss the legislative process and how these kinds of damaging bills originate, along with how you can make a difference in your state this year and every year.
Special Guest: Sue Robbins
Sue Robbins is a woman who is Transgender, Intersex, and Pansexual and uses the pronouns she, her, and hers. She is currently serving on Equality Utah’s Transgender Advisory Council working on bills, policy, and other statewide transgender and intersex efforts. She is a Past Board Chair of the Utah Pride Center and of Transgender Education Advocates (TEA) of Utah, along with being a founding member and the inaugural president of Phi Delta, Utah’s chapter of Tri-Ess. Sue also has lifted voices as a past Community Co-Host of Everyday People at KRCL RadioACTIve. Sue has been recognized with the 2018 Transgender Advocacy TEAM Award, the 2019 Dr. Kristen Ries Community Service award, and the 2022 Equality Utah Impact Award. Sue is an Engineering Manager currently employed with a government contractor. She is a proud veteran with 20 years of service in the US Army, working first as a Tank Crewmember and later in Satellite Communications. Sue lives in Woods Cross with her loving and amazing wife Theresa and has four children and ten grandchildren.
Links from the show:
WPATH Transgender Standards of Care: https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc
Sue’s website: https://sueinut.com/
ACLU Legislation Tracking: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights
Trans Equality 2023 Legislation Tracking by State: https://transequality.org/state-action-center
Track Trans Legislation: https://www.tracktranslegislation.com/
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The 2023 legislative season is here, and there are currently a record-breaking 300+ anti-LGBTQ bills being proposed across the nation, most attacking transgender young people. The complex nature of the legislative process, along with the overwhelming number of bills being presented, has the potential to lead parents of LGBTQ children to feel discouraged and overwhelmed, but we’re here to help. In this first episode of a two part series on legislation, Jen and Shauna Jones break things down to the bare basics. They offer a primer on governmental structure, how legislation is created and passed, and what parents can do to make a difference in the legislative process.
Links from the show:
Info about the branches of state government: https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/state-local-government/
More info about state government: https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_criminal-law/s06-02-the-branches-of-government.html
ACLU Legislation Tracking: https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights
Trans Equality 2023 Legislation Tracking by State: https://transequality.org/state-action-center
Track Trans Legislation: https://www.tracktranslegislation.com/
Join MamaDragons today at www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Labels, shared by Clare McFadyen from England
Queer, shared by Barbara Proudfoot from South Africa
Gay, shared by Roxana Rich from California, USA
Transgender, shared by Pannay from Wisconsin, USA
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In this week’s episode of In the Den, Jen visits with special guests Samantha Richardson and Beckett Jones about what it means to be transgender. From fundamental definitions to misconceptions/misinformation surrounding trans issues to what dating might look like as a trans person, this episode is valuable listening for anyone wanting to better understand the trans experience.
Special Guest: Samantha Richardson
Samantha Richardson is tall, but not as tall as a tree. She likes dinosaurs, monsters, board games, and giant robots. She has won a number of awards for her cartoons and writing, and that number is zero. Her illustrations appear in Shannon Hale’s book Kind of a Big Deal. You can find much of her artwork on Facebook at Samantha Richardson Creator.
Special Guest: Beckett Jones
Beckett Jones is a transgender artist and poet. He is the oldest of three siblings and can often be found outdoors. Beckett’s a conservation worker who has spent his last few summers working in a variety of wilderness areas, including Yellowstone National Park, Mount Rainier National Park, and Palmyra Atoll National Wildlife Refuge (located about 1100 miles South of the Hawaiian Islands). Beckett's currently studying Marine Biology at the University of Hawaii.
Links from the show:
Samantha’s Art: https://www.facebook.com/people/Samantha-Richardson-Creator/100067032965737/
Beckett’s art: https://www.instagram.com/beckettatticus/
More of Beckett’s art: https://www.sfwp.com/quarterly/heartsong?fbclid=IwAR3j-2aqzKn-OtqDgGeBdU-1NVMET8GiSH2jorn9J8Kjhq2J582WNWlUQX0
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Nothing has the potential to create beautiful memories or deeply hurt feelings quite like family gatherings. Family is central for many of us, but having and supporting an LGBTQ child may open your family up to situations of conflict and discomfort when it comes to family interactions. In this episode of In the Den, Jen talks with therapist Laura Skaggs about possible scenarios that may be encountered, and healthy strategies to navigate interactions and events with family that will help ensure inclusion and support for your LGBTQ child.
Special Guest: Laura Skaggs
Laura Skaggs is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist who specializes in treating spiritual trauma at the intersection of LGBTQ+ experiences and religion. Laura earned her master’s degree in marriage and family therapy at San Diego State University with an emphasis in LGBTQ+ mental health within conservative religious social contexts. She went on to serve for two years on the board of directors of Affirmation: LGBT+ Mormons, Families, and Friends with a focus on responding to spiritual trauma and suicide prevention. Laura is also the co-creator of CWEERS Empowerment groups: a practice designed to help LGBTQ+ individuals and their supporters confront social discrimination and internalized stigma. Laura is the mother of two daughters and presently sees clients full time in Provo, UT, as part of Flourish Therapy.
Links from the show:
Flourish Therapy: https://flourishtherapy.org/
Family Acceptance Project: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/
In the Den episode around the Family Acceptance Project: https://inthedenwithmamadragons.buzzsprout.com/2082774/11981957-the-family-acceptance-project-the-impact-of-family-on-lgbtq-individuals
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Over the years we’ve heard LGBTQ people say that they didn’t know what life might look like for them as an adult. Many haven’t had LGBTQ role models that provide examples of a potential future, and a lot of fear that parents of LGBTQ children experience comes from the unknown as well. We thought it might be helpful for parents to get to know some of the amazing members of the LGBTQ community, just a few at a time, so that they can provide a realistic view of what life could look like for our children. Today, Jen joins guests Aaron McManus, Shannon Hansen, and Jordan Sgro in this initial episode of World of Possibility.
Special Guest: Shannon Hansen
Shannon Hansen is an HR Specialist and experienced electrical engineer with a passion for amplifying and supporting voices of the underrepresented. She has filled multiple professional and volunteer roles aimed at increasing awareness for LGBTQ+ issues in her home state of Idaho. Shannon holds a BS in Electrical Engineering from the University of Idaho. Shannon is passionate about ensuring everyone’s voice is heard, regardless of their background. Shannon chairs her local PFLAG chapter, offering support to families of local queer-identified individuals. As a trans woman, Shannon is familiar with navigating the unique complications of healthcare access within underrepresented communities and has served as an LGBTQ Patient Care Advocate. In her free time, Shannon is an outdoor and sports enthusiast. She enjoys downhill mountain biking, snowboarding, competitive water skiing, and trail running.
Special Guest: Aaron McManus
Aaron grew up in a small seaside town in Northwest England. After coming out as gay in his early twenties he navigated dating men and holding on to his religious beliefs. Searching for community he attended the first Affirmation conference to be held in the UK, where he met his husband Jed, who is from Utah. This started their transatlantic adventure together, as they dated long distance for a few years. Until they got married in the Lake District, England, surrounded by their close family. They both continue to travel and enjoy life’s adventures together—spending time with their families in both England and Utah.
Special Guest: Jordan Sgro
Jordan is the Executive Director of Encircle, an organization that offers LGBTQ+ mental health services and other programs. She is dedicated to creating world class programs for LGBTQ+ youth and families. She also works to provide a number of resources for the LGBTQ community, parents, and church leaders. Jordan loves spending time with her wife and baby, spoiling their puppy, and baking red velvet cupcakes.
Links From the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons at www.mamadragons.org
- Aaron’s and Jed’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/findingaland/
- Encircle: https://encircletogether.org/
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In this episode of In the Den, Jen joins past guests Lori Davis, Shauna Jones, and Neca Allgood to answer a handful of frequently asked questions regarding parenting an LGBTQ child.
- How can I be sure my child's identity isn't just a phase, and could I cause harm by supporting them if it is?
- How can I help my child come out to extend family when they're ready?
- How do I prepare my child for the difficult questions that people will ask them?
- Why do I feel so sad?
- Why can't they choose an easier path?
- How do I know if I’m providing enough appropriate support for my child while I’m still trying to learn and process through my own generational teachings
Special Guests: Lori Davis
Lori is a mother to four boys. Parenting her third son Zach, who had a gender nonconforming childhood and now identifies as gay, sent her on a journey looking for support and resources. She found Mama Dragons when Zach was a teen. The support and education there helped her to affirm and celebrate her son. Lori has previously served on the board of Mama Dragons and is currently serving on the PFLAG SLC board.
Special guest: Shauna Jones
Shauna has been an active member of Mama Dragons since 2015. She hates winter, yet still finds herself living in the state of Idaho. Shauna has a husband, three young adult children (one of whom is transgender), a one eyed black lab, and an exuberant golden retriever puppy. Shauna serves on the board of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, Families, and Friends, providing support for parents of queer children and running the youth conference portion of the annual Affirmation International Conference. Shauna loves running and all things rainbow.
Special Guest: Neca Allgood
Neca Allgood is the mother of a transgender son. She is a former President of Mama Dragons, a current Mama Dragons board member, and a former board member of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, families, and friends. Neca and her husband own a small engineering consulting company. She has a PhD in Molecular Biology.
Links from the show:
Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App. If you have a short story, feedback, or any comments we would love to hear from you at 562-344-5010.
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Words with Friends episodes are bonus episodes where different members of Mama Dragons provide definitions for LGBTQ related topics. This episode includes the following definitions:
Orientation shared by Zane Bekayci Bates, a non-binary trans-masculine parent from Colorado
Klein Sexual Orientation Grid shared by Laura from California
Homosexual/Heterosexual shared by Becky from Utah
Internalized Homophobiashared by Melissa Hardin from Georgia
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Join Jen and guest Dr. Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen as they explore the sometimes difficult world of setting and keeping boundaries to protect and support your LGBTQ child. From school to church to relatives to friends, there will always be opportunities to practice boundary setting and keeping. Practicing boundaries can be hard, but ultimately allow truer relationships with those we love and allow our LGBTQ child to feel safe and seen and respected.
Special Guest: Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen
Lisa Tensmeyer Hansen is the clinical director and founder of Flourish Therapy, Inc., (Flourish), a behavioral health clinic located in Provo, Utah, which she founded in February 2017 to meet the needs of LGBTQ+ and SSA individuals and their families. Lisa received a B.S. from Brigham Young University in 1990 as university valedictorian (Summa Cum Laude with Honors thesis), an M.S. in 2012 and Ph.D. in 2017, both at BYU, focusing on improving the mental health of LGBTQ+ people in conservative family and community. As part of her graduate programs at BYU, she taught a course on the family proclamation and a course in graduate research and writing. Her dissertation was a quantitative analysis of adolescent emotional self-regulation in 600 families from Seattle and Provo. Her master’s thesis on a preliminary aspect of the dissertation won the national 2013 AAMFT Masters Thesis of the Year Award.
Since 2010 Lisa Hansen has seen clients at the BYU Comprehensive Clinic, the Provo Center for Couples and Families (PCCF), and at Flourish. In 2016, she was invited to be a continuing participant in the Reconciliation and Growth Project, a dialogue group of conservative and liberal therapists and academics forging ideas to bridge divides and educate in various forums in the LGBTQ+/SSA therapeutic community. In 2018, Dr. Hansen won the Outstanding Counseling Supervisor of the Year award from the University of Utah and in 2019, she was awarded Ally of the Year award from the LGBTQ+ organization, Affirmation International.
Lisa Hansen’s interest in the well-being of LGBTQ+ and SSA people is informed by her LDS faith. She was recently released as a member of the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, and she and her husband are the composers of the Primary Children’s song, Nephi’s Courage.
Dr. Hansen has given more than 100 community presentations, articles, and podcasts for universities, clinical mental health organizations, community mental health agencies, school districts and conferences. She lives with her husband in Payson, Utah, where together they made a home for 7 children (and a few extras) and now have 18 grandchildren.
Links From the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons at www.mamadragons.org
- Flourish Therapy: https://flourishtherapy.org/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App.
If you have a short story, feedback, or any comments we would love to hear from you at 562-344-5010.
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In this episode of In the Den, Mama Dragons Executive Director Celeste Carolin joins Jen to talk about finding and utilizing the available tools that can help make processing your child’s coming out journey a little easier. From appropriate ways of processing your own grief to finding answers to your questions without placing undue burden on your child, Jen and Celeste explore ways to help parents address their own emotional needs in healthy ways, so that they, in turn, are able to fully support their LGBTQ children in meaningful ways.
Special Guest: Celeste Carolin
Celeste Carolin studied business at Harvard Extension School and is currently earning a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy from NCU. As a queer (lesbian) cisgender woman, she has worked with LGBTQ youth and non-profits for the past 10 years. Celeste has served in Mama Dragons Leadership since 2016 and currently serves as the Mama Dragons Executive Director. She lives just outside Seattle with her lovely partner Jamie, extended family, grand kiddos, and their pup Jackson Blue. Both Celeste and her partner come from non accepting religious roots, which fuels Celeste's passion for understanding and serving the intersectionality of faith and parenting LGBTQ children.
Links from the show:
Ring Theory: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html
Join Mama Dragons today at www.mamadragons.org
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EPISODE 4: Bryce Cook–Building Communities of Support
In this episode of In the Den, Jen talks with Bryce Cook about the need that we all have for community. Helping your LGBTQ child find or create community can be key to their emotional and social happiness. Bryce describes seeing a need for a space of community for his sons, and how he went about creating that space for his sons and for others who need it. Jen and Bryce discuss the importance of creating community, and the benefits that come when community is found.
Special Guest: Bryce Cook
Bryce Cook is a founding member of ALL (Arizona LDS LGBT) Friends & Family and a co-director of the annual “ALL Are Alike Unto God” Conference held every April in Mesa, Arizona. He is married to Sara Spencer Cook and together they have six children, two of whom are gay. Bryce graduated from BYU with a degree in finance and from ASU with an MBA. He is an economic consultant at a firm he recently founded.
Links from the show:
ALL Arizona LGBTQ support group: https://www.allarizona.org/
Rainbow Mutual Utah, LGBTQ youth support activities: https://www.facebook.com/RainbowMutual/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App.
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CONTENT WARNING: Mention of Suicidality
Jen chats with guests Shauna Jones and Lori Davis about some of the mistakes parents may make when their child comes out. They share some of their own personal missteps, and talk about what to do when you don’t get it right. From learning new vocabulary to adjusting pronouns, there are a lot of ways to fall short of perfection, and Jen, Shauna, and Lori have an honest conversation about ways to move forward after mistakes are unavoidably made.
Special Guest: Shauna Jones
Shauna has been an active member of Mama Dragons since 2015. She hates winter, yet still finds herself living in the state of Idaho. Shauna has a husband, three young adult children (one of whom is transgender), a one eyed black lab, and an exuberant golden retriever puppy. Shauna serves on the board of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, Families, and Friends, providing support for parents of queer children and running the youth conference portion of the annual Affirmation International Conference. Shauna loves running and all things rainbow.
Special Guest: Lori Davis
Lori is a mother to four boys. Parenting her third son Zach, who had a gender nonconforming childhood and now identifies as gay, sent her on a journey looking for support and resources. She found Mama Dragons when Zach was a teen. The support and education there helped her to affirm and celebrate her son. Lori has previously served on the board of Mama Dragons and is currently serving on the PFLAG SLC board.
Links From the Show:
- Join Mama Dragons at www.mamadragons.org
- Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App.
If you have a short story, feedback, or any comments we would love to hear from you at 562-344-5010.
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Jen meets with veteran LGBTQ researcher Dr. Caitlin Ryan to talk about how family responses can directly impact the health and wellbeing of their LGBTQ family member. Dr. Ryan talks about her decades-long research on behaviors that occur within families when an LGBTQ person comes out and how those behaviors directly impact their self-worth, hopefulness, risk behaviors, health, and self-care. Dr. Ryan discusses the importance of connectedness and gives tips for families whose child has recently come out. Don’t miss this important conversation about family acceptance and the potential to impact the health and wellbeing of their LGBTQ loved one.
Guest: Caitlin Ryan
Caitlin Ryan is the director of the Family Acceptance Project® — a research, education, intervention and policy project – to help ethnically, racially and religiously diverse families to support their LGBTQ children. Dr. Ryan is a clinical social worker, researcher and educator who has worked on lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBTQ) health and mental health for more than 40 years and whose work on LGBTQ health has shaped policy and practice for LGBTQ and gender diverse children and youth. She received her clinical training with children and adolescents at Smith College School for Social Work. Dr. Ryan started the Family Acceptance Project with Dr. Rafael Diaz in 2002 to help diverse families to decrease rejection and prevent related health risks for their LGBT children — including suicide, drug use, homelessness and HIV - and to promote family acceptance and positive outcomes including permanency. Dr. Ryan works with organizations, faith communities, families and providers to integrate FAP’s family-based support approach to build healthy futures for children, youth and young adults.
Links From the Show:
- Learn more about The Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/
- Donate to The Family Acceptance Project: https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/donate
- LGBTQ Youth and Family Resources: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/?fbclid=IwAR0VOSv6VY0mBSz04mfSvN2vxQvoWIWLEfGBasRVGOiWwFid8aXqx_dQEe8
- Find LGBTQ Resources Near You: https://trainings-theinstitutecf.umaryland.edu/lgbtqfamily/map.cfm
- LGBTQ Crisis Lines: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/crisis-lines/
- Faith-Based LGBTQ Resources: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/faith-based-resources/
- Culture-Based LGBTQ Resources: https://lgbtqfamilyacceptance.org/culture-based-resources/
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App.
If you have a short story, feedback, or any comments we would love to hear from you at 562-344-5010.
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Join Jen and guest Neca Allgood in this inaugural episode of In the Den as they talk about what to do when your child first comes out to you. They’ll discuss common mistakes and how to avoid them. They’ll also cover what to do when you don’t get things right the first time. It’s an important conversation for parents with LGBTQ children of any age.
Special Guest: Neca Allgood
Neca Allgood is the mother of a transgender son. She is a former President of Mama Dragons, a current Mama Dragons board member, and a former board member of Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, families, and friends. Neca and her husband own a small engineering consulting company. She has a PhD in Molecular Biology.
Links From the Show:
- Comprehensive, inclusive, shame-free sex ed can be found at Planned Parenthood https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/for-educators
In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you.
**Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at mamadragons.org. You can also add “Mama Dragons” as your charity of choice on Amazon Smile or through the Amazon App.
If you have a short story, feedback, or any comments we would love to hear from you at 562-344-5010.**
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Donate to this podcast
Have you heard of Mama Dragons? Are you curious who we are? And why in the world we're adding yet another podcast to the podcasting world? Join us in the den and we'll get you all caught up so you can save yourself a comfy seat on the sofa for our upcoming episodes!
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