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Our guest today is Jacci Weber. She is the Co-founder of the Insights Career Network. Also the Team Lead of Pet Parent Insights at Mars. The Insights Career Network (ICN) is a community of marketing, consumer, user, and business research professionals who volunteer their tools, experience, and networks to help each other develop their careers. Mars is an American multinational manufacturer of confectionery, pet food, and other food products, and provider of animal care services. In 2022, Forbes ranked Mars as the fourth largest privately held company in the U.S. Prior to joining Mars, Jacci has served as an insights leader at Wendy’s and Nationwide.

Listen in to hear the challenges and successes Jacci has encountered from her previous and current roles as we navigate through tough questions around what keeps her up at night as a leader in insights!

As always, please submit any questions or feedback and subscribe so you’re up to date!

The post Ep. 614: Jacci Weber, Co-Founder of Insights Career Network & Team Lead at Mars first appeared on Happy Market Research.

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You are listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. I’m Jamin Brazil, your host and this episode is being done in partnership with Qual360 North America. This year’s event is on March 13-14 at the Gallup global Headquarters in Washington DC. The focus of the event is on navigating the dynamic future of qualitative research. For more information check out na.qual360.com.

https://na.qual360.com/Why Every Organization Needs A Best-In-Class Social Intelligence Capability 1. Key use cases and examples from leading organizations 2. Social Intelligence as a comprehensive framework, not just synonymous with Social Listening 3. The leading tools in the space to consider, including the technology stack Nestle USA is building 4. How AI has changed the game, making day-to-day operations and insight-gathering much more efficient 5. How to succeed: the long-term vision to democratize the insights

The post Ep. 613: Frank Gregory, Social Intelligence Lead at Nestlé first appeared on Happy Market Research.

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The post Ep. 612: Esther-Mireya Tejeda CMO at Anywhere Real Estate first appeared on Happy Market Research.

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Our guest today is Doug Healy, Senior Director of Consumer Insights for Gatorade at PepsiCo. PepsiCo, was formed in 1965 with the merger of the Pepsi-Cola Company and Frito-Lay, Inc. Headquartered in Harrison, New York, PepsiCo is an American multinational food, snack, and beverage corporation with 23 brands. In addition to serving as the Senior...

The post Ep. 604 – Douglas Healy, Senior Director, Consumer Insights – Gatorade at PepsiCo appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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This podcast is being done in conjunction with Qual360 North America. The conference will be held on March 8 and 9 in Washington DC at the Gallup World Headquarters.

This year’s theme is empath, diversity, and resilience.

Similar to last year, I will be hosting the event and I would love to see you.

To learn more, check the show notes or just DM me on LinkedIn.

Our guest today is one of the speakers at Qual360.

Linda Mielnicki Light, Associate Director of Global Insights Connect and Gifting Portfolio at Mars Wrigley.

Mars is an American family-owned multinational manufacturer of some of the world’s most iconic products including M&M’S®, SNICKERS®, ORBIT®, EXTRA® and Skittles.

Prior to joining Mars, Linda served as a senior insights leader at Con Agra Foods, FedEx, and McDonalds and started as an intern at Coca-Cola.

Find Qual360 North America Online:

Website: https://na.qual360.com/

Find Linda Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindamielnicki/
Website: https://www.mars.com/

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys.

For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

The post Ep. 603 – Qual360 North America – Linda Mielnicki Light from Mars Wrigley on Three Key Elements Driving Humans During an Inflation appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Our guest today is Reed Cundiff, Chief Executive Officer at the Schlesinger Group.

Founded in 1966, Schlesinger is a leading provider of quantitative and qualitative research solutions and has built and bought leading technology solutions providing customers with both best-in-class service and software.

Prior to joining Schlesinger, Reed served as a General Manager at Microsoft, SVP at the Yankee Group, and CEO of the Americas for Kantar.

Find Reed Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reed-cundiff-3b0a181/
Schlesinger Group: https://www.schlesingergroup.com/en/

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys.

For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hey, everybody. You are listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. We have a special guest today, Reed Cundiff. He is the chief executive officer as the Schlesinger Group. Founded in 1966, Schlesinger is a leading provider of qualitative and quantitative research solutions and has built and bought leading technology solutions which now provide companies best-in-class, both in terms of service and software. Prior to joining Schlesinger, Reed has served as a general manager at Microsoft, SVP at the Yankee Group, and CEO of the Americas for Kantar. Reed, thanks so much for making time for us and being on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.

[00:00:44]

Reed Cundiff: Thanks for having me, Jamin. It’s a pleasure to be here.

[00:00:50]

Jamin Brazil: HubUX is a research operations platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys. For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com. I’d like to start out with this context question. Tell us a little bit about your parents, what they did and how that informs what you do today.

[00:01:15]

Reed Cundiff: I love this question, and probably my mom in particular loves this question. Both my parents worked outside the home. My dad was a mechanical engineer at DuPont for over 30 years. And I have to say, he believed in a structured approach to pretty much everything in life as engineers sometimes do, and also had a real strong belief in efficient execution, whether that was at work, whether that was mowing the lawn or whatever the case may be. And so I think that kind of structured approach and focus on efficiency certainly has showed up in my work life and home life. The interesting blend was my mom was a change management and a talent consultant with Towers Perrin and Watson Wyatt and a few other organizations. And so she honestly built a career around the belief and the power of people and teams to be able to tackle pretty much anything in the world and just the importance of human capital within a business context. So together I feel like honestly, it’s pretty logical that I ended up here. I couldn’t have told you that at 22, but bent towards a structured understanding of the world and a focus on the people side of business has I think really driven me to where I am now.

[00:02:44]

Jamin Brazil: It is a special skill set that you possess and that has thankfully been installed by your family, that both probably in terms of DNA and also obviously observational. So that’s super interesting. But it’s a special skill to be able to take the chaos of life or business and then create order around that and structure so that you can create repeatable processes. Have you seen in your career, is this a skill that’s innate with people, or is this something that you see people that maybe don’t have it can invest in and actually achieve that?

[00:03:14]

Reed Cundiff: I think it’s absolutely a skill that people can learn. And of course people are going to have a tendency coming in. But what pops to mind for me, Jamin, was my first job out of school was as a market analyst for Gartner. And this is where believe it or not, even after what I consider to be a pretty good education, thinking in a logical way and communicating in a structured way was something that I’d only taken the first couple steps in a marathon in learning how to do. And those first few years out of school, I thankfully had folks who were willing to invest time and energy in teaching me how to improve. And I definitely feel like that’s put me on a better path than I would’ve been just in a state of nature.

[00:04:05]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, for sure. One of the things that I actually very much appreciate is the opportunity to speak. And one of the things that – and that’s happened really in the last I’d say six years of my career, and really heavily in that timeframe. I’ve probably done more speaking the last six years than I did the previous 20 by 4X. And one of the interesting things about speaking is the need to be able to clearly communicate a point of view in a very structured way in a specific timeline, and as opposed to more of how I used to approach things which would be more like winging it. And I think business in a lot of ways is exactly the same thing. It’s about just rolling up your sleeves, getting down to brass tacks of how things are being done and where the opportunities are for improvement, whether that impacts time or gross margin or close rates or what have you.

[00:04:51]

Reed Cundiff: And if I could, there’s one thing that I would add. And that’s speaking clearly and with an overall purpose in mind. And so as I think of honestly you, me, and the listeners that we have here as leaders, we might not all be people managers, but we all have the opportunity to lead. And when we’re thinking about what we’re trying to get across, even if we just think basically hey, I can provide clarity in this situation. I can generate energy in this situation. Or I can focus on delivering results, just communicating, and getting something done. Having that in mind as I start to communicate just makes things so much more straightforward.

[00:05:39]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, and it takes a lot of the emotion out of the communication. A lot of times I fall, have fallen victim to feeling like I need to be right or as opposed to having what I think the right solution is, or what is the right solution I should say, ultimately is the solution that’s pushed forward.

[00:05:59]

Reed Cundiff: This might be a bit of a tangent from where you were thinking of going today. But there was a really formative experience that I had honestly later in my career than I would care to admit. But when I had the opportunity when I was at Microsoft to be able to present to the senior leadership team of the company, and I’d say it was – it ended up being a good meeting. Not a great meeting, but a good meeting. And then coming out of it, I was debriefing with my boss who was the CMO at the time. And he said something honestly that I hope I never forget. I certainly haven’t yet. And it was hey, when you were in there, it seemed like you were trying to successfully get your point across and make it through the meeting. How would you have shown up differently if you were genuinely interested in the feedback that the people in that room were providing you? Because –

[00:07:00]

Jamin Brazil: Interesting.

[00:07:01]

Reed Cundiff: Yes. Well because first of all, it’s an expensive meeting. And there’s some really smart people in that room who might have something to offer if you were interested not just in my parlance, winning the meeting, but rather in gathering feedback and figuring out how you want to do things differently walking out of the room.

[00:07:22]

Jamin Brazil: That’s such a powerful – that’s such a – and the problem with that is as soon as you stop talking and ask for feedback, you’re going to get feedback, right? And that’s always the – I heard an interview with Bill Gates. This goes back a decade, but it stood out to me so much. An entrepreneur was pitching him on a business idea, and he asked the entrepreneur a fundamental question about TAM that was – he, Bill Gates himself knew the answer to, happened to know the answer to. And the entrepreneur off-the-cuff knew exactly what the dollar figure was and also could break it down, break down the TAM very logically. And so that was all Bill needed to – Mr. Gates, excuse me – needed to hear in order to build trust that that person understood what they were talking about. And so it is interesting. When you open yourself up there, you better have your shit dialed in.

[00:08:18]

Reed Cundiff: For sure, yes.

[00:08:18]

Jamin Brazil: [CROSSTALK] very –

[00:08:20]

Reed Cundiff: Genuinely, yes, feedback is a gift, and some days it’s Christmas.

[00:08:24]

Jamin Brazil: That’s right. Some days it’s Christmas. Love it. Well hey, Schlesinger. I’ve got to tell you, I am a huge fan of Schlesinger. Anybody that knows me knows I only tell the truth to the – so if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m not, but I wouldn’t have led with that. Schlesinger has played a material part in my career, both pre-transaction with Focus Vision and then of course later with running Focus Vision as the CEO for a short time, and then later Debbie Schlesinger, and now remarried but being on my board at HubUX. And so I’m such a big fan. And it was big news seeing Steve move into more of the board role and then bringing you on. So first of all I wanted to just offer my congratulations to you in that role, because it’s a very important role in our industry.

[00:09:13]

Reed Cundiff: Thank you very much. I am delighted to be in role and working and really trying to carry the business forward, which has been just such a fantastic part of our industry for such a long time now.

[00:09:27]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, no kidding. 1966, it’s quite literally one of the OGs. And what’s interesting about Schlesinger versus maybe some of the other – certainly most of the other, if not all. You guys are so big, I assume over a quarter billion dollars currently and growing. You guys actually weathered remarkably well COVID, whereas other traditional focus group facilities, they didn’t have that forethought to invest in technology. And you guys were completely tech-enabled, which allowed you to seamlessly move to a virtual framework, maintaining a nice growth trajectory. So just a lot of smart moves have been made on the chessboard of market research by Schlesinger and continuing to drive things like participant quality. Again I think about – this is going to sound like an infomercial. And by the way, folks, they’re not paying me for this. This is not that episode. But in truth fundamentally, Schlesinger having such a large focus group footprint globally, one of the interesting things from a sample-sourcing perspective and major points of differentiation is they’re able to tap into large-scale audiences who have already been vetted through qualitative research, whether that’s in-person or otherwise, for quantitative surveys. And so again in a day and age where you’re having 40 to 90% return rates on sample or you have a sample option that has vetted people inside of it, it’s a pretty remarkable value prop just in that piece alone. So anyway, great company. Excited to see where you wind up taking it. As you think about the future, and what do you see as the next thing for Schlesinger to lean into?

[00:11:06]

Reed Cundiff: It is a great and fair question. I feel like Steve and our management team had a just really sharp vision for the future. And we’ve been successful in transforming and growing the business through some of the acquisitions that you talked about. So we were able to expand into quantitative and digital qual in 2020, perfect timing. And now those two areas are collectively a huge part of our portfolio. We still certainly love and embrace our heritage of the in-person facilities and qual recruiting globally. And we know and thankfully a lot of our customers are seeing especially throughout this year the importance of in-person. And that’s always going to be a huge part of the portfolio of the business and what we offer to customers. But also we have been making some strategic bets on tech. And so coming where I’m coming from, especially you can imagine that was one of the most compelling things about the business. In 2021, you saw us purchase Methodify and Telmy. And we see the industry evolving to be more self-service, and also these types of tools and tech expand our audiences to broader marketing and CX roles that weren’t always thinking of more traditional firms like Schlesinger. Now in just this past year, we also made some investments that we want to continue evolving in our assets like opinion capital, and getting more resources for the audiences that we want to bring to market which are going to power all of our relationship with customers. So it’s continuing along the lines that strategy that Steve and the management team have really laid out. I think we’ve got honestly a pretty bright future ahead, which is why I’m here.

[00:13:02]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, no, I completely agree. I think the best years for consumer insights are quite literally right in front of us, and I think that I’ve been through a couple of different cycles now. This is my third cycle where I started in the pre-dotcom phase, saw a lot of company – learned a lot about company behavior as they became – companies became really fat from a cash perspective, bringing a lot of internal resources and insights, so making a lot of investments in growing the full gamut of market research and hiring people, et cetera. And then the dotcom bust happened, and all of a sudden there was tremendous amount of layoff. So most of those happened at first in the market research space, and then boutique companies coming out. Then you fast-forward to the housing crisis of 2007 and ’08. And again as everything was like market going up and up and up, again brands were doubling down on internal research divisions. And again they cut the staff, and now fast-forward again. Here we are seeing the exact same behavior really on both sides, which kind of leads me into my next question. What do you see as – and I’ll leverage my MBA and pull the number three here. What are three trends that you believe will carry us into 2023 and into 2024?

[00:14:14]

Reed Cundiff: Sure thing. First thing I’d say dovetails right along with your really good and succinct history lesson, is leaner and meaner would be the first trend that I would think about, is like a lot of folks at – the economic outlook certainly from a macro perspective is not going to be fantastic for H1. And my belief is that that’s going to accentuate the push to eliminate some of the inefficiencies that we have in our industry. And that’s – I’ve had the good fortune to be able to look at and participate in our industry from a few different views at this point. And honestly, I see opportunities for greater efficiency from all of them, from the way brands engage with suppliers and agencies to how we operate internally. We need to eliminate some of the friction that’s embedded in bidding for and launching projects today so that we can really start to move at the speed of decision-making. So leaner and meaner is number one. Two, something I’ve been talking about for a while which I think will only continue is the digital transformation of insights. I’ve been talking about this for six or seven years, and honestly I imagine I’ll be talking about it for the next six or seven years. The integration of a variety of different data types, perception, behavior, financial, social, location enables our industry and our insights to break out of one-dimensional views of humans, and kind of look at a more well-rounded view of our customers, our markets, even our competitors. And so we need to leverage the “and” opportunities versus simply advocating for the benefits of our unique data silos. So that ongoing digital transformation would be the second. And then the third for me is a talent revolution. I think it’s related to both of the first two trends, but I feel like we have a chance to meet the moment as an industry and foster a revolution in the nature of the work we do and the people who do it. I’ve been passionate about this for a long time. The first time I talked about this publicly was at an SMR World Congress probably ten or 12 years ago. I talked about the challenges in cross-pollinating research and data science capabilities within a team. I talked about it as farmers versus miners. And with the digital transformation that’s already permeating the industry, we have an opportunity to rethink the way we train and grow our young talent in particular and embrace a wider variety of data types, be flexible in our analytic approaches, and deliver insights in a dynamic way that goes beyond the one-hour PowerPoint presentation.

[00:16:57]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, 100%.

[00:16:58]

Reed Cundiff: And lastly at the same time, what other industry, one that’s centered around human understanding, could be more prime to evolve its representation and inclusion? I believe we can dramatically improve from a relatively vanilla starting point to a group of leaders and professionals who come much closer to mirroring the folks we work hard to understand, and mirroring society at large. So I do want to give a small shout-out to the Insights Association’s IDEAtors program, which offers internships to diverse junior researchers. Schlesinger is a proud participant, and there’s a lot more that we all can do.

[00:17:39]

Jamin Brazil: 100%. And it’s all around intentionality that we’re able to drive those changes. And to your point, how you started, I really like – it’s interesting how the conversation has kind of gone full-circle for me. When you think about process in a lot of ways, process – well, in every way, process is a function of getting things done. And a core way of getting things done or a component of it is the tools that we have access to and the subsequent skill that we bring to leveraging those tools. And if you look at Gen Z versus millennials or even Gen X, there’s a whole different set of requirements around the actual software components of things and how they think about getting things done and their tolerances for bad tech. And that’s where I think thinking about this new digital revolution that I believe we’re stepping into where companies and individuals are accustomed to leveraging things like OpenAI to get answers very quickly, there’s a whole new set of things that are going to be coming to market that we just quite literally – most of us haven’t even conceived of. So it’s going to change everything from the tools that we use to ultimately how we wind up getting our stuff done, and the companies that are going to win are the ones that are adaptable from a process perspective.

[00:18:51]

Reed Cundiff: For sure. For sure. And we even see that day-to-day in how we’re approaching things like remote qual and in-home user testing, where things that required a pen and paper and weeks to be able to complete, we can use tech to be able to solve in hours and days.

[00:19:11]

Jamin Brazil: We’ve got the forward view. What do you see as some barriers or challenges that we will face as consumer insights professionals?

[00:19:19]

Reed Cundiff: Well, so this is where this will not be a new answer. But to me I feel like it’s the same as it was ten years ago, and that’s quality is the first thing that comes up. It’s not particularly sexy or dynamic, but without quality input, insights are sunk. When you have that one objector in a senior meeting poking legitimate holes in the makeup of a respondent pool or the analytic technique used or the way a question was phrased, then the impact of the project dies a quick, but painful death. So yes, we want to provide insights at the speed of decision-making, and yes, we want to find ways to deliver insights at lower cost. But we always want to do so with a foundation of data quality. And it’s honestly just not always there, and it starts with the respondent.

[00:20:09]

Jamin Brazil: It’s not always there categorically. There’s – the majority of sample is just so catastrophically bad. Speaking of process, I’ve talked to 100 at least agencies. And the biggest problem that they’re facing is data quality. Participant fraud and bad actors are a real and growing concern. And when you look at the increase in utilization of brands for research, just the number, the volume of research is going up. The number of surveys are going up. But meanwhile the world population is about the same, so you got to ask, where are all these people coming from and why are they willing to spend 20 minutes of their time for 25 cents?

[00:20:52]

Reed Cundiff: For sure.

[00:20:53]

Jamin Brazil: So yes, at some point, yes, anyway, there’s a whole ‘another episode. My last question for you. What is your personal motto?

[00:21:01]

Reed Cundiff: I love the opening and close, and the middle’s been pretty great too by the way. But I’ve actually spent a lot of time working on my personal philosophy. So I won’t go into intense detail or cry on your podcast, but it does come from a core part of me and I try to have it influence how I show up wherever I go. And there are four aspects to my personal philosophy. Be genuine, be precise, prioritize action, and speak truth to power.

[00:21:31]

Jamin Brazil: I love it. Our guest today has been Reed Cundiff, chief executive officer at Schlesinger Group. Reed, thank you very much for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast.

[00:21:41]

Reed Cundiff: Thank you, Jamin.

[00:21:43]

Jamin Brazil: Everyone else, I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I did. Have a great rest of your day.

The post Ep. 602 – Reed Cundiff, CEO at the Schlesinger Group, on 3 Trends That Will Impact the Insights Industry in 2023 appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Our guest today is Jessica Nordell, Author and Speaker. In 2021 she published The End of Bias: A Beginning: The Science and Practice of Overcoming Unconscious Bias.

Jessica has served as a teacher and journalist. She studied Physics at MIT, and holds a degree in physics from Harvard and an MFA in Poetry from the University of Wisconsin-Madison,

Find Jessica Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-nordell-48319748/
The End of Bias: A Beginning: The Science and Practice of Overcoming Unconscious Bias: https://www.amazon.com/End-Bias-Overcoming-Transforming-Companies/dp/1250186188

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys.

For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hey everyone. You’re listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. I’m Jamin Brazil your host. Our guest today is Jessica Nordell, Author and Speaker. In 2001, she published The End of Bias: A Beginning. That will be the topic for today’s episode. Jessica has served as a teacher and journalist. She studied physics at MIT and holds a degree in physics from Harvard and an MFA in poetry from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Jessica, welcome to the Happy Market Research Podcast.

[00:00:32]

Jessica Nordell: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:36]

Jamin Brazil: HubUX is a research operations platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions and surveys. For a limited time user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account visit hubux.com. It is an honor to have you. I’m really excited about jumping into the topic of your book but before we do, I like to provide a little bit of context. Please tell us about your parents, specifically what they did and how that informs what you do today?

[00:01:07]

Jessica Nordell: That’s such an interesting question. I think it was more- I’ll tell you what my parents did. I think it was actually more kind of their approach to life that really influenced what I did with my own career. My dad is a retired physician. My mom was a counselor before my sister and I were born. Then after we were born, she stepped back from that role and shifted her attention to researching the stock market. She became kind of an auto didact with investments and kind of understanding companies and how to make sense of companies stock performances. That became her kind of main activity as we were growing up. I think it was really my parents kind of spirit of curiosity that really influenced my choices in my career. There was always this kind of attitude in my house that if you didn’t know something, you should go find out the answer. We have a world book encyclopedia and whenever my sister and I had a question about something in the world, my parents would say, why don’t you go look it up. I think that really fostered my spirit of curiosity and of just like trying to seek out answers all the time. Which then became my career really as a journalist. That’s what we do. We try to uncover what’s really going on and try to understand a particular issue from all angles.

[00:02:40]

Jamin Brazil: What year did your mom make the career shift to stock analysis?

[00:02:45]

Jessica Nordell: I think it would have been sort of the early 80’s.

[00:02:49]

Jamin Brazil: This is pre-E trade by a long shot?

[00:02:53]

Jessica Nordell: Yes. Yes. She would go to the library in downtown Green Bay where I grew up. Green Bay, Wisconsin. Look at Morningstar reports, like thick books of stock reports and kind of pour over them and study them. Yes. It was before- yes before things became a lot simpler via the internet.

[00:03:11]

Jamin Brazil: Maybe even more complex in the same breath. For me, it brings back this memory of my late grandfather. He and I on Saturday- Sunday excuse me. Sunday mornings we would look at the paper and track specific stocks using graph paper. You could see the historical framework.

[00:03:24]

Jessica Nordell: Really.

[00:03:28]

Jamin Brazil: Yes. Over time and we have literally still I have journals upon journals of stocks that we would track. Some as hobbyist and some as actual investments. Which is kind of interesting. There was like a vicereines that you connected to the companies back in those days. That I think in a lot of ways the digitalization of that process has sort of has really removed that. Or maybe it’s just me being a little bit nostalgic.

[00:03:48]

Jessica Nordell: Yes.

[00:03:51]

Jamin Brazil: One of the things that is interesting that I resonate with is the fact that your parents in a lot of ways it sounds like they taught you that you can. There was an enablement or even the right to learn and figure out that is one of the things that foundationally enable you to be successful journalist speaker and author.

[00:04:16]

Jessica Nordell: I think so. I think- I hadn’t actually thought about it before. As we’re talking about this I probably the fact that my mom just kind of independently just developed this kind of career with just completely self-taught. Studying the stocks and kind of understanding how investments work. Also, I think gave me sense that if you’re interested in something and you’re motivated, there’s nothing stopping you from pursuing it. From learning more. From kind of going in a particular direction. I think it also kind of taught me to not take no for an answer. Many times over the course of researching this book I ran into some kind of big obstacle or some problem that hadn’t been answered. A question that hadn’t been answered or a problem that hadn’t been solved. I think I just I don’t know just constitutionally I’m kind of undeterred by that. Then I’m like, OK. Then I just have to figure out another approach to this unsolvable problem.

[00:05:15]

Jamin Brazil: I love that. There was a lot of problem solving in those days. Not that there isn’t today but we were very much limited to volumes as opposed to digital access. To almost everything. In some ways, I think the topic of bias is very interesting. Certainly there was bias that was contained in whether it’s the encyclopedia or other things that we would have considered to be more like Cannon or more truth in at least from my experience. If it was in the encyclopedia then that was just the truth of it, right? That was the last, that was the final word.

[00:05:46]

Jessica Nordell: Right.

[00:05:46]

Jamin Brazil: Whereas now, we have such a volume of points of view on various things that on everything. That you can really see how in more of a visceral connection of how bias can frame your world view.

[00:06:01]

Jessica Nordell: Absolutely. Yes. I think we have such a much deeper understanding or there’s a much more of a broad cultural understanding that a person’s particular perspective and life experience and vantage point are going to influence how they- what subjects they think are important. How they think about those. What questions they ask? Where their blind spots are. Absolutely, all of those things were embedded in the world like encyclopedia in the 1980s. In a way that I wasn’t aware of at the time growing up.

[00:06:36]

Jamin Brazil: Yes. For sure. You wrote a book. Very successfully received, which is fantastic, The End of Bias. It was actually named a best book of the year by the World Economic Forum. AARP, Greater Good and Ink, that’s a pretty remarkable endorsements. Congratulations. In The End of Bias, in the actual book you argue that bias is pervasive in our society. That’s really interesting. Fundamentally for me. That means that pervasive is quite literally in everything that we do. It is in fact a major barrier to achieving true equality. You also explain how bias is perpetuated by institutions from education to employment. You discuss how bias can manifest in both subtle and obviously overt ways. There’s kind of like stopping at that particular point for me, it’s important as I started doing a lot of work in the last five years. I’m embarrassed to say, in my early 50’s. I just turned 52. That I waited so long in my career to recognize that this is such an important point. I’ve never been more aware of the amount of bias that has shaped who’s important and who’s not. Who has rights and who doesn’t. Probably one of my favorite little micro examples of that is, the color of band aids. How like there’s just- it doesn’t fit for me. That’s a wellness framework, right? It’s the thing that you use when you get a boo boo as a kid, feel better. Just being able to kind of start pulling the scales away from our eyes, sorry about the metaphor. We start to see a little bit more clearly, not that I figured all this out yet. This is something that is a really important work. Anyway. You go on and you talk about, or the book I should say. It offers solutions. Which I was very appreciative of. Of how these biases they can be specifically addressed including increasing diversity in educational intuitions. Of course, providing opportunities for marginalized communities and creating transparent and accountable systems. That is a big win. The last part that I want to highlight in the book, I hope I’m not sounding too much like an infomercial. Everybody that’s listening should right now go buy the book. You can find a link in the show notes or you can also find it on Amazon of course. Also, audio version which I prefer. Is available to you as well. Anyway. The last part is it emphasizes the importance of creating an inclusive environment. It recognizes that all individuals deserve respect and equal access to resources. Ultimately, the book argues that The End of Bias is possible. There is this like shining star, north star for us to be able to work with. All of that is my book report. What is the problem? I know it’s a little bit of an obtuse question. What do you see, it’s a primary problem that the book addresses. Why is it so urgent today?

[00:09:32]

Jessica Nordell: I think it would be hard to find an area of human experience that isn’t touched by some kind of bias in some way. I think that that applies to all of us no matter what our background is. We both experience it on the receiving end. We are subject to other people’s expectations about us and assumptions about us. Maybe unexamined beliefs about us based on different categories that we belong to. Then we in turn do this to others. We have unexamined expectations and assumptions about others that really color our interactions and our behavior toward other people. The reason that this is so important is that it systematically changes the opportunities that are available to people. If I- if you and I are interacting and I make assumptions about you based on some categories that you belong to that I’ve learned about in my culture. Then I’m not really interacting with you. I’m interacting with like a hallucination about you. Or a daydream about you, instead of you. It also really prevents bias unexamined bias or unconscious bias really prevents us from engaging with reality. Engaging with the truth that’s in front of us. The effects of this are so huge in healthcare. You pointed out band aids. There are really extreme examples of the ways that unconscious and unexamined bias in healthcare affects patients of color. Affects women. Affects so many different groups. Heavier weight people. We see- there’s studies that show that doctors interact with people differently depending on what groups they belong to. This can have really serious health consequences. That’s just one area. There’s education, criminal justice, policing, the workplace. There’s so many different areas where unexamined and unconscious bias are present. I just feel really passionately that this is a human issue that we all need to work together to tackle.

[00:11:41]

Jamin Brazil: Does it point to more of homogenous culture ultimately? What I mean by that is, part of the solution trying to look the part. I’ll give you a personal example. I had a family member who was critically ill and we were making some really important decisions. It was like sleepless night and a lot of time in the hospital. I was very intentional of my appearance of like trying to not look like I felt. Not dressing up in a three piece suit but at the same time, the reason I was doing that is I was trying to make sure that the staff was going to be treating me a certain way. It was just a tactic, right? Tactic incidentally actually worked. Often times I would get mistaken for somebody that worked there. There’s the knowledge part of it but then as you start framing out the other side of it. Does it go both ways?

[00:12:34]

Jessica Nordell: When you say, does it go both ways? Are you saying is it possible to kind of manipulate others biases for ones’ benefit?

[00:12:38]

Jamin Brazil: That’s what I mean. Yes, exactly.

[00:12:42]

Jessica Nordell: It certainly is. I think people do it all the time. I think what you’re describing is a tactic that is very common. I think I certainly heard that growing up as well. Dress up when you’re trying to make a case at the airport gate. You need your flight changed and you want them to treat you differently. Dress up. Absolutely. As you found, it works. There was something in the mind of those hospital staff members that saw you and it sounds like, decided to maybe give you the benefit of the doubt. Or maybe go a little bit of an extra mile for you because they put you in a particular category.

[00:13:21]

Jamin Brazil: Yes. Right. The category in this case that persona I was trying to create was one of I’m important.

[00:13:27]

Jessica Nordell: Yes.

[00:13:27]

Jamin Brazil: It sounds silly but that’s quite literally just the jist of it. Therefore, you should treat me a little bit different. I wasn’t by the way, I’m not a donor to the hospital in no way. It was just a manipulation tactic I guess. I didn’t thought of it exactly like that but that’s exactly what the outcome is.

[00:13:45]

Jessica Nordell: Yes.

[00:13:46]

Jamin Brazil: This is a big problem. It’s a pervasive problem. Why now?

[00:13:50]

Jessica Nordell: Oh my gosh. I started working on this project in early 2016. I’ve been writing about the subject of bias and discrimination for many years leading up to that. My interest in the subject really came out of my own experiences in the workplace. As a woman experiencing things like having my work doubted. When my males colleague work was celebrated or having to prove myself over and over when a male colleague was given sort of the benefit of the doubt immediately. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. Then lots of things happened. Cheryl Samberg published Lean In. Which is sort of made this case that it’s important for woman to sit at the table and step up. Then there were studies that found that that message actually causes people to blame women more for their challenges in the workplace. There were a lot of kind of different cultural currents happening. Of course, over the last several years my goodness I was writing the book in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. When I was finishing it actually was Summer of 2020 when George Floyd was murdered. There was kind of a global reckoning with some of these issues. It feels very timely.

[00:15:15]

Jamin Brazil: Yes. A 100 percent on the timeliness of it. I’m old enough to remember different tragedies that have happened like even in the 80’s with the Rodney King. I think that now the media has framed so much in favor of the general population as opposed to just specific outlets. Outlets still have a lot of power. There are an individual voices also carry a lot of weight because they’re algorithm based. Definitely, we’re seeing a lot more viscerally able to connect to injustice in a way that we just simply just didn’t have access before. We were reliant on a media to be able to carry those messages to us. That has a lot of negativity or firewalls I should say of actually delivering against the empowerment framework. That I have a friend who I actually met as that he was a guest on the podcast. I did a two part series with him on this particular topic. He is a 100 percent Native American. He’s also very successful Silicon Valley CEO. Aaron is his name. He said that it’s so pervasive in the funding frameworks. The economic frameworks that you just wouldn’t- you can’t even believe it. The reason why is it creates a shortcut for investors.

[00:16:27]

Jessica Nordell: Yes.

[00:16:27]

Jamin Brazil: There’s this any confidence that if you are a white male and you went to Harvard and got your MBA, then the other white male who also went to Harvard and probably knows some of your professors. He’s probably ten years older than you. He understands you in a way where he think it like increases his chances of success. As opposed to somebody who might not look like them or come from a different socioeconomic framework or different education. Then there’s this much larger unknown in which case now the bet is really being made more on the business frameworks. Which is not often times the central thesis for the investor.

[00:17:09]

Jessica Nordell: Right. Even though maybe it should be more often. I think if we look at Sam Banksman Freed for instance. Kind of the benefit of the- the just sort of the repeated benefit of the doubt he was giving. He was given by investors. Then we try to imagine Samantha Banksman Freed. Or Sam Banksman Freed who was African American been given that same benefit of the doubt. It’s almost comically impossible to imagine. Someone kind of in a baggy t-shirt and baggy jeans playing video games while pitching investors. It’s impossible to imagine someone who fits a different model being successful at that.

[00:17:49]

Jamin Brazil: Yes. For sure. Society creates this natural like shorthand for how we interact with each other based on these personas. As you’ve correctly identified it’s all manufactured. It’s all I forget the word you used. Hologram or something. It’s not actually real representative but individual.

[00:18:06]

Jessica Nordell: Right. We’re sort of interacting with a hallucination that’s based on inherited cultural information.

[00:18:14]

Jamin Brazil: With that framework and the way that you wrote the book, I’m really curious who’s the target reader?

[00:18:21]

Jessica Nordell: I undertook this project because I wanted to understand what we do about this problem. I’ve been writing about the problem of bias for a long time. As journalist we focus on problems. Journalists tend to not focus on solutions. We tend to uncover bad things that are happening. Then try to expose them to as many people as possible. Expose what’s going on. I had this kind of burning question which was like what do we do about the problem? Like what actually reduces the impact of gender bias and racial bias and bias on the base of weight and religion and ability and all of these different categories. I couldn’t find an answer to this question. I couldn’t really find the book that I thought should exist. I wrote the book to answer this question that I was desperately curious about. I see that the ideal reader as someone who also cares about bias and discrimination. Is curious about what could be done differently in their own lives. In their own communities and their own neighborhoods. I think another ideal reader is someone who works as part of an organization or a business or an institution that is looking to improve. In terms of becoming more fair and more just and more inclusive. The book provides a lot of different stories and tools and science behind what actually kind of moves the needle to make organizations more fair. I think it’s really anyone who cares about these issues and kind of wants to take the next step. Beyond just acknowledging the problem. Take the next step toward action. Toward doing something positive.

[00:20:14]

Jamin Brazil: It is interesting like I don’t know if you follow Saturday Night Live at all or various comedians. This topic is one that has been coming up a lot. It’s something that we’re definitely feeling what’s appropriate. What’s not appropriate. Even frameworks of how I should refer to different ethnicities. By I mean like the capital I. The all of us I. Our overall uncomfortableness of potentially being fearful of offending people unintentionally. Like recognizing I have biases but how do I successfully navigate a conversation with somebody I actually want to navigate it with. Or may even care about deeply where I’m not perceived as offensive.

[00:20:57]

Jessica Nordell: Right. Irony. Like the sort of tragic irony is that often when people are extremely worried about appearing biased, appearing prejudice. They actually behave in ways that make them seem more biased.

[00:21:12]

Jamin Brazil: Right.

[00:21:13]

Jessica Nordell: Being kind of stiff and uncomfortable. Or being unable to kind of carry on a flued conversation. These come from sometimes a fear of saying the wrong thing or offending someone. In fact, sometimes come across in a way that actually seems more offensive. I think that one thing that I really absorbed over the course of working on this project was that we are all inevitably going to screw up and say the wrong thing. I think what actually more important than just never screwing up is what happens after we screw up. Often, people are so mortified by saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing that they will retreat. That they’ll say, you know what, I can’t even engage with this subject anymore. It’s too embarrassing. It’s too I feel too ashamed. I feel too guilty about my inability to handle this correctly. They’ll kind of withdraw. I would encourage people to actually take that moment of that screw up moment of where, oh god I can’t believe I just said the wrong thing. What am I going to do? Take that moment actually as a huge opportunity to repair a relationship. To repair a dynamic- a connection with another person and learn something more about the other person. Learn something more about oneself. Actually use that as a springboard for a better encounter next time.

[00:22:44]

Jamin Brazil: I love that. I think that is a really nice and powerful way to- that we can start leveraging it. I’m hoping for one more practical tip in the book that we can take away and apply to our lives?

[00:22:58]

Jessica Nordell: Yes. Absolutely. Let’s see which would be one that I feel like could be most practical. One approach that is a really powerful tool for reducing stereotyping is a particular way of interacting with people who are from a group that one is not part of. Basically, what the research has shown is that if you connect with someone from a different group and you have equal status. You collaborate on a project together where you have a shared goal. That starts to decrease each groups stereotyping of the other. Decrease bias and promote things like friendship across differences. One like super practical kind of tactical thing that I- that people can do if they’re interested in starting to break down some boundaries or some differences. Look for opportunities to actually collaborate with people who belong to a group that you don’t belong to. Have a shared goal. Where you’re working together collaboratively. This really starts to break down stereotyping and starts to allow us to see one another more clearly. Instead of seeing each other as these kind of hallucinations or day dream that we so often do.

[00:24:31]

Jamin Brazil: That’s super helpful. I want to talk a little bit about what you’re doing right now. You’ve published a book. It’s a very important book. It’s addressing probably one of the most important issues in North America at the moment. Maybe even globally. Certainly in America. Are you speaking? How are you spending your time?

[00:24:51]

Jessica Nordell: Yes. I’m continuing to- I’m speaking a lot about the book. I travel to organizations and companies and conferences and do a lot of public speaking about this subject. That is actually something that I was kind of thrilled to find. People were really interested in after the book came out. I didn’t exactly know. You never know when you publish a book how it’s going to be received. I was very happy to know that people were really interested and wanted to hear more. I’m doing a lot of speaking. I’m also publishing a newsletter called Who We Are to Each Other where I interview people and kind of continue this conversation about how we interact with one another in more humane ways. I am starting the research for my next book.

[00:25:46]

Jamin Brazil: Exciting. I can’t wait. I have one last question.

[00:25:51]

Jessica Nordell: Yes.

[00:25:51]

Jamin Brazil: What is your personal motto?

[00:25:52]

Jessica Nordell: I think if I had to choose a personal motto it would be there’s more to the story and try to find out what it is.

[00:26:02]

Jamin Brazil: Our guest today has been Jessica Nordell. Author and Speaker. Most recently, released The End of Bias: A Beginning. You can find it on Amazon and Amazon audio. You must listen to this book. Jessica, it’s has been a pleasure having you on The Happy Market Research Podcast. Thanks for joining us.

[00:26:18]

Jessica Nordell: Thank you so much.

[00:26:21]

Jamin Brazil: Everyone else, I hope you have a great rest of your day.

The post Ep. 601 – How Bias Can Frame Your World View with Jessica Nordell, Author and Speaker appeared first on Happy Market Research.

The End of Bias: A Beginning: The Science and Practice of Overcoming Unconscious Bias

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My guest today is Dr. Emmanuel Probst, the Global Lead of Brand Thought-Leadership & Senior Vice President of Brand Health Tracking at IPSOS, Author, and Professor at UCLA.

Founded in 1975 and headquartered in Paris France, Ipsos is among the largest global market research and consulting firms. Ipsos has over 18,000 employees and serves more than 5,000 brands.

Find Emmanuel Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmanuelprobst/
Website: https://www.ipsos.com/en-us
Brand Hacks: How to Build Brands by Fulfilling the Customer Quest for Meaning: https://www.amazon.com/Brand-Hacks-Fulfilling-Consumer-Meaning/dp/1576879828

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in Marketing Research Program delivers the #1 ranked insights and analytics graduate degree in three formats:

Full-time on campus
Full-time online
Part-time online

NEW FOR 2022:

If you can’t commit to their full degree program, simply begin with one of their 3-course certificates: Insights Design or Insights Analysis.

In addition to the certification, all the courses you complete will build toward your graduation.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at: broad.msu.edu/marketing.

HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys.
For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hi, everybody, I’m Jamin. You’re listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. Our guest today is Dr. Emmanuel Probst, the global leader of brand Thought Leadership and Senior Vice President of Brand Health Tracking at Ipsos. He’s also an author and professor at UCLA. Founded in 1975 and headquartered in Paris, France, Ipsos is among the largest global market research and consulting firms. Ipsos has over 18,000 employees and serves more than 5000 brands. Emmanuel, thank you so much for joining me on the Happy Market Research podcast today.

[00:00:34]

Emmanuel Probst: Jamin, thank you so much for having me on the show, and it’s so great to be connecting with you and reconnecting with your audience, your community. It’s always a pleasure coming on the podcast.

[00:00:47]

Jamin Brazil: The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in Marketing Research Program delivers the number one ranked insights and analytics degree in three formats. Full time on campus, full-time online, and part-time online. New for 2022, if you can’t commit to their full degree program, simply begin with one of their three core certifications, Insights Design or Insights Analysis. In addition to the certification, all the courses you complete will build towards your graduation. If you’re looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSNUs program at B-R-O-A-D. msu. edu/marketing. Again, B-R-O-A-D-.-M-S-U. edu/marketing. WX is a research operations platform for private panel management, qualitative automation, including video audition questions and surveys. For a limited, time user seats are free if you’d like to learn more or create your own account visit HubUX.com. So on September 7th, 2021, you released Brand Hacks, how to build brands by fulfilling the customer quest for meaning. It had outstanding content, like I went through that book, I literally read that book three times on a trip to Europe there and back. And it was transformational for me, a lot that I could talk about. We’ve already talked about the books, I don’t want to like, talk too much about it. But it was fantastic. And now in February 2023, you will be releasing your second book, which is titled Assemblage, The Art and Science of Brand Transformation. The description that Amazon has right now is brands can no longer force-feed us a plethora of products we don’t need. To succeed, brands must transform us and the world that we live in. So I wanted to kind of like pull back before we jump into the meat of the content or the questions here on the book. So my particular community, the podcast community here, there are a number of authors that listen regularly. And there’s also some aspiring authors that are listening. What is one thing that you wish you could go back in time and tell yourself when you started working on your first book Brand Hacks?

[00:03:07]

Emmanuel Probst: Hedge I mean, first and foremost, thank you for reading Brand Hacks three times. And, look, the good news is you had to pay for your book only once each time you read it, it’s three times cheaper to you than it is to anyone who read the book only once. So in all seriousness, I appreciate as you said that in your community, our listeners, many people might have a project for a book or have published a book already. I’ll give you a few very important tips. And I will be very concise. Number one, don’t try to write a book, you have an idea, and you’re going to work on developing this idea, kind of a puzzle. So you need one central idea. And for this idea, it becomes a blog post. And then it becomes a series of articles. And then maybe it becomes a mini-series on social media. And then you’re going to socialize this idea with an audience no matter how small. And over time, you will validate that your idea is strong enough to become a book. You need more content, so book obviously is going to be 60,000 words 50,000 words and a blog post is only 700. And you also need to make sure that the idea resonates with your audience. So the number one advice when writing a book is do not try to write a book. The focus is the idea. The second advice is who are you going to sell this to? What is the audience for this book? And that is to any product you would start, any brand you would start. And frankly as romantic as you will end glamorous as writing a book might sound, at the end of the day, it is a lot of marketing and it is a lot of product placement. And it’s not that different from toothpaste and breakfast cereals. So who is the audience for that book? And that’s important that you define this audience clearly. And you qualify you really create an audience persona. And the third thing to keep in mind, and that is particularly relevant for nonfiction writers like you like me, and like our community, our listeners today, in nonfiction, a book is a vessel for an idea. And what I mean by this is, how are you going to productize the idea? How are you going to extract some mileage, for lack of a better expression? Meaning, could it become a training course? Could it become a workshop? Is it going to become a keynote presentation? Can you do some bike learnings meaning share with people 12 key tips, 15 conversation starters from the book. Importantly, again, the book is a vessel for an idea. It’s a great business card, if you will, it commands a lot of credibility in and of itself, with the exception of very few writers, Malcolm Gladwell, and Seth Godin and those guys, the book in and of itself is not enough.

[00:06:32]

Jamin Brazil: When you say not enough, you mean is that connected to them needing to do more marketing?

[00:06:38]

Emmanuel Probst: It’s connecting to more marketing, the book is a great way to start a conversation into a [CROSSTALK]. It’s not the end of it all, it’s the beginning. And I’m saying this in a very positive way. So the opportunity to start a new relationship, what I write in my books now, when I sign books, I write two new possibilities. That’s what the book is about, is starting something new, opening the door to new relationships, new opportunities, new possibilities.

[00:07:14]

Jamin Brazil: Let’s talk about Assemblage, again, the title Assemblage, The Art and Science of Brand Transformation. So what is the problem that you are trying to address or you are addressing, excuse me, and why is it urgent right now?

[00:07:24]

Emmanuel Probst: Sure. The problem is we as consumers are overwhelmed with products and overwhelmed with brands, and we expect more from those products and those brands. What I mean by this is selling breakfast cereal, selling great toothpaste, those products might be of great quality. That’s not enough. We expect this, we need those products, and we need those brands to transform us and to transform the world we live in. And what I mean by this is as an outcome of being this brand, as an outcome of using these products, I want to go from who am I to who do I want to become? That’s what I mean by transformation. You need, when using the product, when choosing the brand, I need to feel that I’m becoming a better person as an outcome of choosing this brand and using this product. I also expect this brand, this company, this corporation, and its products to make a positive impact on my world, meaning my friends and family, my community, and also to make a positive impact on the world we live in. And that has to do with economic recovery after COVID, and it has to do with citizenship and sustainability and so on and so forth. And Jamin, if I may you exemplify this, you’re now part of a well known very respected organization called Voxpopme. By the way, I’m saying this transparency, since obviously I work for Ipsos, I don’t feel we’re competitors. But in any case, I recognize that Voxpopme is a great organization, it’s a great company that sells quality solutions. But you go the extra mile through the Happy Market Research podcast, you go the extra mile because you do something that benefits the community. In the long run all this benefits your brand equity and how people perceive you Jamin Brazil, your personal brand, but also how do they perceive your offering your solutions at Voxpopme? So in that regard, you Jamin and you Voxpopme as an organization, you are making a positive impact on the market research community.

[00:09:38]

Jamin Brazil: Yeah, it is funny, it is a lot like I almost think of it as nation building in a way it’s maybe overstating it, but there’s a lot to drive positive to make a big impact on people’s lives and then tangentially, but also connected to it is the opportunity to be able to monetize those relationships. And it is kind of like getting into my nation building example. It is kind of like people vote with their feet, right? And if you have that, that ethos of prioritizing the betterment of your community, your niche, your target market, your whatever, and that’s where you start, then it really gives you material advantage, because you’re not looking at extracting, you’re looking at adding to those individuals.

[00:10:27]

Emmanuel Probst: Well, and I think what you said is very important. I’m reflecting on what you said, Jamin, you start with the audience, you start with your community. And then you build something that is beneficial to the audience and the community, meaning in what you just said, you put your community first, not yourself. And I can go back to your first question. You want to think first yeah, I have a great idea. I want to write about a given topic. Importantly, how does this benefit my audience? As opposed to squeezing whatever you have in your desk drawer, or whatever you have in your company that you can force feed someone, if that makes sense?

[00:11:15]

Jamin Brazil: That makes perfect sense. And again, I haven’t read the book, it hasn’t been published yet. But what’s interesting about how you’re framing it, I go back 20, 25 years ago, where we used to talk a lot about share of wallet, right? And so it’s all about how much of that wallet can I consume of the customer as a brand. And then the counterpoint to that is, I like McDonald’s as an example. They’re much more in the partnership mentality now with customers, where they’re two for Tuesday, or what have you, where it’s about where’s the big value that we as an organization can offer to people? And that has the tangential benefit, of course of creating a recurring customer experience.

[00:11:53]

Emmanuel Probst: For partnership with the customer, what you just mentioned, is covered in the book, in terms of brand read events, and citizens and brands are activists now. So that’s very important. In a nutshell, five, seven, 10 years ago, as marketers, we will control the narrative, we will control the brand strategy, the marketing. Today, you marketers have to live with the fact that you only co-create this narrative, you guide this narrative, you’re going to work with your audience to co create the brand. So you have to let go of some control. You don’t want to feel insecure about it, you’re here to guide and you’re here to inspire your community, this community are your clients, our citizens, our people. And that’s the skill, is to guide to moderate, and to co-create the narrative, and understand, appreciate and leverage the fact that your audience is going to co-create the brand with you, and this book tells you how.

[00:12:59]

Jamin Brazil: I’d love that. I had not ever framed it in the way of co creation. But I have said that it used to be the case that brands who are who they said they were. So they would have a narrative and they would lead with that. And that’s what the general consumer thought about them. But now it’s the case that brands are who your customer say you are. And it’s even more concerning if customers aren’t talking about you.

[00:13:22]

Emmanuel Probst: 100%.

[00:13:23]

Jamin Brazil: Who is the target reader?

[00:13:25]

Emmanuel Probst: The target reader is anyone in marketing, advertising, market research, brand strategy, management consulting, that wants to build a brand, grow a brand, be smarter about it, and wants to do so for years to come. This is not a tactical book. Well, there are some tactics that you can implement straight away. But what’s important is, how are you going to grow your brand? How are you going to increase customer lifetime value for years to come? And this strategic lens, I think, is really important. Now, just like with my first book, the writing is really approachable, meaning you might be a marketing student at a university, and you will appreciate the book. Or you might be the Chief Strategy Officer at a big four and you will also appreciate the book. I’m saying so because I just had some early feedback earlier this week from a Chief Strategy Officer at one of the big four’s, and his take on the book, and I certainly don’t mean to brag, but his email said you’re doing some important work here. And what’s rewarding with Assemblage, The Art and Science of Transformation is this feedback I’m receiving from people in our industry Jamin telling me this book is timely, this book is important because we just cannot continue to do marketing the way we’ve been doing it for the last five, seven, 10 years. And we marketers, we brand professionals and advertisers, we need to make a bigger impact on the world if, again, we want people to choose our products for many years.

[00:15:16]

Jamin Brazil: Oh, that’s really good. And to your point about bragging, I feel like in a lot of ways we don’t self-promote enough. And the problem is that we rob the audience the potential beneficiary of that knowledge, because they don’t have the context or the social proof in order to understand that it is important for them to read. I would imagine you’re thinking about like the spectrum of reader here. As you said, it could be entry level or even in the educational stage of your career. Is there also a component of the small to medium-sized businesses being able to benefit from this?

[00:15:51]

Emmanuel Probst: 100%. Because it’s interesting to look at Nike and Patagonia and Vos, great brands we all like. However, very few brands have the reach, very few brands have the budget to deploy campaigns like Nike, Patagonia, Mariette and Volvo, and all those big brands. Therefore, in this book, you have many case studies, I think you have almost 40 case studies in that book. And yes, we look at big brands sometimes, for example, Unilever is doing things that are very powerful around their project for real beauty. But we also look at very small brands, one is a brand called Anthem, and Anthem makes Thai dinners delivered to your home, there is a DTC firm in France called Asphalt. And what Asphalt does is they create clothing items based only on what people order. Therefore, there is no inventory being wasted, because they produce only what they sell. All this to say that you have examples in this book are very small brands. And for further inspiration, the last chapter is called The Assemblers. And The Assemblers are the artists and the musicians and the producers many of us admire. And this chapter shows you how they do their craft, so that you can apply this to marketing. And an example in this chapter is Pharrell Williams, and you like his music or you don’t or DJ Khaled is another example. And it doesn’t matter if you like DJ Khaled’s music. The point is to say DJ Khaled is very successful. But really DJ Khaled is not a musician, he’s an assembler, he’s an orchestrator, meaning he’s someone who is going to mix and match, combine and transform sounds and inspirations that he receives from his community into a great product. And in that regard, the book is empowering for our reader, it shows you how to do it, and it shows you that you can do it too.

[00:18:09]

Jamin Brazil: Do we have you know me, I like tactics. Can you give us a sneak peek if I open the book, like what is the key tactic or practical application that I’d be able to apply to my business today?

[00:18:20]

Emmanuel Probst: I’ll even give you two. The first one is a method called copy, transform, combine. In short, that means don’t try to reinvent the wheel, find inspiration in products that exist already and in categories that are unrelated to the brand you’re trying to create. And you’re then going to remix this. That’s what I call the remix economy. So, you’re going to transform and create juxtapositions of those, basically, an assemblage of those different elements, and you’re going to transform this into something new. And many of the artists we admire, and many of the brands we admire, they didn’t start from scratch anyway, whether it’s Star Wars that was inspired from a novel, and Apple did not invent the mouse, Apple did not invent personal computing, it did not invent the iPod, it copied, transformed an existing idea into a better product. So that’s tip number one. And so copy, transform, combine is really important. And the second one is stop googling things. Meaning it’s great to discover new things on the internet. You and I do this whole day and that’s fine. At some point, though you close the lid of your laptop, and you simply sit with maybe a notepad and a pencil. And you just brainstorm with yourselves and you start finding new ideas that way. Google is misleading because if you type something in Google, instant gratification, you’re going to find an answer. So that feels good in the moment. But now take a step back and think about whatever is on page one of Google. The problem is that if you found that answer, millions of other people had access to the exact same answer. And in fact, there is that saying in our industry, Jamin, which I’m sure you’re familiar with, that is what is the best way to hide a dead body? Page two of Google. So why Google is very useful, don’t get me wrong, I use it every day, many times a day. There’s nothing wrong with this. But there are times to be present, to start Googling things, to stop looking at social media, and sit down with yourself and simply challenge yourself in finding more ideas on your own. And that’s when the great work starts. And that is what is fulfilling in the process of writing and creating.

[00:21:02]

Jamin Brazil: I like that because one is very inward focused and draws on yourself. And the other is outward focus, when you think about the framework of remixing at least as I understand it right now. What I really like about the remix is you see that happening on Tik Tok and the growth of that platform. I guess the fundamental premise of Tik Tok is taking a trend and then re-mixing that trend into your own voice if you’re a content creator.

[00:21:28]

Emmanuel Probst: 100%. That is indeed the remix economy that is building upon something that has already been done. And in my opinion, it’s putting new things on things. It’s copying in a good way. Because you do so it’s out in the open, by the way, the title of my book Assemblage, I did not invent that word. When I talk about the art and science of brand transformation, how you can mix and match different components from culture and all that. Well, this concept is inspired from how you make whiskey, how you make cognac, how you make wine. So to make a whiskey, you assemble a range of different whiskies basically. So an assembler, a master wine maker is going to pick from up to 300 different whiskies, and they’re different because of different barrels and different ageing process and different flavors and so on and so forth. And the winemaker is going to mix and match those different alcohols to create that whiskey. That brand that taste that is unique that has a strong product identity. And this exemplifies Jamin what I’m saying this copy transform combine process, I did not invent whiskey. I did not invent the process to craft a great, unique whiskey. I did not create a word assemblage. I applied this reasoning this process, this method, this best practice to the world and the purpose of marketing.

[00:23:17]

Jamin Brazil: Perfect. Our guest today has been Dr. Emmanuel Probst, the global leader of brand thought leadership and Senior Vice President of brand health tracking at Ipsos. Author and professor at UCLA, his book is titled Assemblage, The Art and Science of Brand Transformation. You can pre-order that on Amazon today. Emmanuel, thank you so much for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast.

[00:23:41]

Emmanuel Probst: Jamin and everyone, our listeners on the Happy Market Research podcast, thank you so much for such a great conversation today.

The post Ep. 579 – Why Consumers are Overwhelmed and how That Affects Your Brand – Brand Transformation with Dr. Emmanuel Probst at IPSOS appeared first on Happy Market Research.

Brand Hacks: How to Build Brands by Fulfilling the Consumer Quest for Meaning

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My guest today is Susan Fader, keynote speaker and founder of FaderFocus.

Susan has run FaderFocus as a Business Strategist & Transformationalist Catalyst specializing in Qualitative methods and strategic consulting.

She helps clients achieve focus and get “unstuck”, reframing their energies, their confirmational biases, and the traditional ways of segmenting their customers.

Find Susan Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fadersusan/
FaderFocus: https://www.faderfocus.com/

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in Marketing Research Program delivers the #1 ranked insights and analytics graduate degree in three formats:

Full-time on campus
Full-time online
Part-time online

NEW FOR 2022:

If you can’t commit to their full degree program, simply begin with one of their 3-course certificates: Insights Design or Insights Analysis.

In addition to the certification, all the courses you complete will build toward your graduation.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at: broad.msu.edu/marketing.

HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, and qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys.

For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hey, everybody, I’m Jamin. You’re listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. Our guest today is Susan Fader, keynote speaker and founder of Fader Focus. Susan has run Fader Focus as a business strategist and transformationalist catalyst specializing in qualitative methods and strategic consulting. She helps clients achieve focus and get unstuck, reframing their energies, their conformational biases, and the traditional ways of segmenting their customers. Susan, welcome back to the Happy Market Research Podcast.

[00:00:36]

Susan Fader: I’m very happy to be here and talk with you again.

[00:00:42]

Jamin Brazil: The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in Marketing Research Program delivers the number 1 ranked insights and analytics degree in three formats, full-time on campus, full-time online, and part-time online. New for 2022, if you can’t commit to their full-degree program, simply begin with one of their three-course certifications, Insights Design, or Insights Analysis. In addition to the certification, all the courses you complete will build towards your graduation. If you’re looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSU’s program at broad. msu. edu slash marketing, again broad. msu. edu/marketing. Hub UX is a research operations platform for private panel management, qualitative automation, including video edition questions, and surveys. For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com. Before we get into the core content, I wanted to talk briefly about your speaking. You have been a speaker since I’ve known you anyway, various industry events, but more recently you’ve been brought in for corporations to talk to them and their off-sites. I’m just curious, is this a trend for your career, and what are they bringing you in for?

[00:02:13]

Susan Fader: They’re bringing me in for really my original thinking of reframing how you think about business challenges, because a lot of businesses are like these cars that are stuck in the mud and the tire keeps spinning and you’re doing the same thing. They need to think differently about their businesses. They’re coming out of the pandemic. The whole dynamics of their categories, who their buyers are, how they talk to them has changed. And they want to make sure when they are thinking about business strategies that their baseline assumptions are correct, and that’s where I come in. I help them reframe how they think about what the business challenge is, what the opportunity is, and how to look at things more from a customer perspective than how business units are set up.

[00:03:10]

Jamin Brazil: It’s funny. It is in every way becoming a better listener. I’m just constantly amazed at how when we do that, we can connect more, and obviously on a one-to-one framework, but I think it works really well from a brand framework as well. Anyway, we’ll dive more into that momentarily. So this is the third time that you’ve been on the show. The first time was on contextual intelligence. The second was on cognitive demographics, and today we’re talking about yet another new thing for me, narrative economics. What in the world is narrative economics and what business question does it address?

[00:03:48]

Susan Fader: So narrative economics is really about stories. When you think about in the business world of storytelling, it really is seen as an output of how you deliver findings or how you talk to the board of directors or CEO, and you have to have a story that has beginning, middle, and end, and you’re delivering conclusions. Narrative economics is about storytelling as input. It’s about hearing what people are thinking about, and it doesn’t have to have a beginning and middle or end. It could be a song, a poem, a sermon, a joke, but gives you insight of what people are thinking. That’s what narrative economics is, and it’s about storytelling. I can give you a little more background if you want.

[00:04:41]

Jamin Brazil: So it’s about storytelling, and so that’s the narrative component of it. But then you have the economics, which is usually, at least from my point of view, is framed on whether that’s usually market conditions or what drives overall economic outcomes.

[00:04:57]

Susan Fader: So let’s step back. Behavioral economics, system 1, system 2, has become really, really big, and behavioral economics came out of the world of financial economics. What social scientists did, they recognized something that was in the world of financial economics, and they adapted it, and businesses and market researchers adapted the world of behavioral economics to something that we use, and the underpinning of behavioral economics is that people are irrational, and they make irrational decisions. When Robert J. Schiller, who’s a Nobel Prize winner in economics, came out with narrative economics in 2018, and I read the paper, and I realized, “Wow,” this was an idea that we really have to take into business, just the way behavioral economics was transformed. And I have been, for the last five or six years, the drumbeat of we have to incorporate narrative economics. And my take is narrative economics should be viewed as the insider, the person who’s being studied’s perspective of why the choice or decision may be rational to that person, and therefore it reframes how we look at behavioral economics. Behavioral economics, we have to now recognize, and this is what I really feel, is we’re making a judgment call on whether a person is rational behavior, we’re the outsiders, and we’re doing a judgment call on whether they’re being rational. Narrative economics gives us the backstory and the perspective of why the behavior might be rational to the person, but not to the observer. And that’s why I think narrative economics is so important that we integrate into any business strategy or any business thinking that we are doing.

[00:06:53]

Jamin Brazil: In all transparency, a little out of my depth, my understanding of economics is very much one of a hobbyist, as opposed to an academic. But at least my remembering of behavioral economics is really around scarcity and why humans or what rather humans will wind up choosing, and that driver ultimately is what is going to improve them the most or be the best thing for them from their point of view. And so then, as I understand it, as you’re describing it, narrative economics really feeds the why framework they’re making that specific choice.

[00:07:32]

Susan Fader: Yes, it does. And again, the thing we have to recognize is people rationalize behavior to themselves, even if it’s irrational. But again, then it’s a rational decision on their point. But it also gives us the context of how they’re making the decision in the missing link, because a lot of times when we’re judging consumer behavior, obviously we’re the outsider, but at the same time, we don’t have the context of what’s going on, of how they’re making it, what other things are impacting. I’ll give you an example. When in the Rust Belt, when all these factories were moving to Mexico and all these people were losing $40 an hour jobs and they were offered the opportunity to move, the company would move them and the people wouldn’t move and they were left in areas that had no jobs, and you were like, “Why wouldn’t these people move?” They’d rather be unemployed than have all these benefits and $40, $50 an hour jobs. That’s irrational. However, if you think of a person’s personal hierarchy of value, and the biggest thing to them is family, and all their family lives in that 15 mile radius, then they’re going to choose not to move, even though it’s going to negatively really impact their life. Because to them, family is more important, being around family. So that’s a rational decision. But if you think about all the articles we’ve read about, how could these people not move? That’s an outsized job. So that’s why, if you understand the narrative of how they’re talking, and that’s why listening to podcasts about any particular- there’s podcasts about anything, of every demographic. So if you listen to people talking on podcasts, or if you read biographies, or people- J. D. Vance, who was just elected Senator in Ohio, was Hillbilly Elegy, gave insight of growing up in the Rust Belt from Appalachia. And Tara Westover, her book about educated living off the grid in Utah. It gives you insight of what their lives are, and what their decisions were, and where they ended up. And that’s very important. And I don’t think enough business people do that, that they really listen to the stories. It’s not a dissident bit, it’s really hearing the context of their life, and how, and understanding why they make decisions the way they do.

[00:10:21]

Jamin Brazil: Totally. And it’s interesting that you can leverage digital frameworks, you said podcasts, but it could be other things too. It could be like TikTok channels, or hashtags, or what have you. But really as inputs to help inform your point of view of an audience or a segment. And it’s interesting because you’re basically consuming monologues, or one side of their point of view of whatever it is that they’re talking about, what they care about, what drivers are, what annoys them, all that sort of stuff.

[00:10:52]

Susan Fader: It’s also getting back to research and conversations. A lot of times, we’ve talked about this before, there’s more stuff than can fit in the guide, the 15-page guide, than you have time to talk, have a conversation, and it’s this question-answer structure. What you really need to do is devote the first 10-15 minutes of any research interaction you have, allowing the person to share a story. If I am doing research with healthcare profess- doctors, I’ll ask them in two or three sentences, tell me why you became a doctor and why your specialty. And they’d light up, and they start sharing, you’ve touched them, and gotten into a personal aspect of who they are, and it gives me context of how to have a conversation with them. But if you’re doing a consumer project, don’t assume you know everything because you’ve already interviewed this profile 40 times before. The person you’re talking to, a lot of their decision making is automatic. So what you need to do is just kind of get them to share their perspective. If you’re talking about making dinner, you have a food product and it has an integral part of dinner, you might say, “Tell me the story of what you like about making dinner and what you don’t, and tell me in five sentences. And or give me three descriptive words about how you feel about making dinner.” You kind of give them a framework because most people don’t know how to tell a story anymore. And so if you give them- and say, you have to give them a framework. So if they give you the three words, you say, “Tell me why those three words.” And you get tremendous insight into how they’re feeling as opposed to what do you like, what you don’t you like. So the three words can really jumpstart the conversation. And in ancient Greece, if a guest was at the table at the meal, their obligation was to share a story with the host to tell something about themselves. And that was belief you really get to know someone that way.

[00:13:14]

Jamin Brazil: Oh, that’s so interesting. I recently did a study, for my blog, on a Lazy Boy and I asked a question that was a video question. So people would respond, give me their answers via video. Tell me about your most memorable experience on a Lazy Boy piece of furniture. And it was so emotional, the response, we had 350 people that qualified to take the survey. And their stories impacted me so much this year for Christmas, I’m requesting a Lazy Boy recliner.

[00:13:50]

Susan Fader: Because it was emotional, you asked about them. It was a broad question so they can interpret it whichever way they wanted. It could be memorable, could have been how it was delivered, or a memorable could have been how they made a repair on it. You didn’t put any constraints on what story they were going to do. And most research would say, “Tell me about the delivery process. Have you had any repairs? Tell me.” So that kind of guides them, but you were broad so that they could bring any story they wanted from any aspect of the relationship. And that’s a key to narrative economics.

[00:14:28]

Jamin Brazil: And what was so interesting on the- I will pick on this study a little bit more, is that you’re right in the things that surfaced, I don’t think I would have ever pulled it out of a survey, unless I had asked the question. One of the interesting thing was I asked- I got 350 responses. So even if I had just done a handful of one-on-one interviews, I don’t think the findings would have surfaced like they did, but some of the things that surprised me were the experience with the store at the store was so- my sales rep was the favorite most memorable part of having the furniture, with the furniture, which you is counterintuitive. You think it would be something else. And that was- one of those was a story of one of the sales reps saying, “Hey, I’ll come out to your apartment and check it out, and let you know what I think would be a good layout for you,” just kind of for free, going out of their way to do that kind of stuff.

[00:15:17]

Susan Fader: So that that’s very interesting. You said counterintuitive. That’s like you were going to set, you would normally set guardrails on what you think a memorable story should entail. And that’s what many businesses do. So if you had set the guardrails and don’t tell me about the sales experiences, tell me about your experience having one, you would have missed out. And narrative economics, again, is about them sharing a story with you from their perspective and you not guiding them by the hand on what story they should tell.

[00:15:54]

Jamin Brazil: So we’ve already kind of stepped on this next question, but I’m going to ask it anyway because I would really like to flesh it out more. How does narrative economics connect to consumer insights?

[00:16:05]

Susan Fader: It’s exactly what we just did. It doesn’t put constraints on what you’re going to hear. A lot of times when you start- think about it, when you’re asked a very direct question, it’s like you put blinders on and the consumer says, “Oh, they only want me to answer X, Y, and Z. Therefore, I’m only going to answer X, Y, and Z.” And you’re kind of putting tunnel vision on the consumer, not allowing them to really tell what they’re thinking. You’re guiding the conversation. You want it to be unguided, at least at the beginning, so they contextualize it and then you react to how they’re telling the story. And that’s how you’re going to get a lot more out.

[00:16:45]

Jamin Brazil: So qualitative, obviously, in nature, do you see it play out in quant-research?

[00:16:51]

Susan Fader: That’s exactly what you just did with 350 Lazy Boy. The key is with AI, you really in quant to not have an open-end video right now is, I think, ridiculous. And I think you actually should start quant surveys with an open-end.

[00:17:13]

Jamin Brazil: So on point.

[00:17:14]

Susan Fader: Because that’s how you start understanding their perspective. And then if you want to do a cross-tab, you do a cross-tab of the answers based on their perspective. Because, again, businesses tend to segment customers based on what their business unit needs are. But customers might segment themselves differently, put them in groups other than what you would see them in, and by putting an open-end at the beginning of a quant and using AI to help you figure it out, I think you would get a lot more insight from your quant.

[00:17:53]

Jamin Brazil: It’s funny, I’ve been saying this for years, a survey is really just a conversation at scale. And finally, technology is getting to the spot where it can analyze unstructured data, because nobody speaks in Likert scales.

[00:18:04]

Susan Fader: Right. No one speaks in Likert scale. And the other issue is talking about data and talking about quantifiable data, when you think about Google searches, people tend to search the top 10 or the top five ways things are categorized in that category. But if you think about it, data is historical and that’s looking backwards. And if you do that, you don’t see what the emerging trends are. Because something as simple as brushing your teeth, I went to a Google presentation and they said there was over 100,000 ways that people talk about brushing your teeth. So if you only do the top 10, you’re going to miss something. So that’s also happy conversation will help you understand what other things you should be looking for in Google searches beyond just the top 10.

[00:19:02]

Jamin Brazil: Oh, that’s super insightful. I talked to you a little bit about a project. I didn’t intentionally do narrative economics, but it may have had some overlap. Do you have a specific or a favorite project where you leverage it for a customer?

[00:19:15]

Susan Fader: Oh my God. It’s like asking me who my favorite child is and I have lots of children. I think it’s hard to- your most favorite, because I work in so many different categories and I’ve had so many interesting conversations and people who have totally surprised me. I didn’t expect them to say something, but I think one of the most moving ones I had was a project I did with evangelical Christians and I was hired by a group. Let me just backtrack from it, this was at a time right after the Supreme Court had ruled same sex marriages was legal and marriage that was legal in 50 states. However, in 37 states, it was still legal to fire someone because of their sexual preference. It was still legal to evict someone from their home if they were renting if they were homosexual. So the objective here was to try to get those laws off the books in those states and not have evangelical Christians, basically to have them not fight it, not that they need to be advocates, but that they shouldn’t be against that move. So what we need-

[00:20:42]

Jamin Brazil: De-escalation of the issue?

[00:20:44]

Susan Fader: Well, trying to figure out where the minefields were, in terms of communicating and messaging to the public in terms of voting and de-escalation, what can you say? How can you say it? Where can you say it? And I did. I must have done 50 one-on-one interviews and we also did groups and I had them tell stories things, we had an exercise, I’m not going to go into detail, but they came in and they were prepared to tell a story and then we talked. And I cannot tell you how many times during these interviews people broke down and cried. And the thing was they’re very adamant that a marriage was between a man and a woman. And anything that referenced, this was in the case with the wedding cake and everything and that was the minefield, you couldn’t go anywhere near that. But when you started hearing that people could be evicted from their homes because what they were doing in the privacy of their bedroom, that was not right. And one person said, “As long as they’re not,” I’m not going to use the word that they use, but on the conference table, why do I care what they do in their bedroom? How can you throw someone out of their home or how could you fire someone? And it was this understanding, this emotion where we were able to separate this thing that had been so tightly woven together, where homosexuals are destroying America because of marriage. “Oh my God, they’re just like me, they need to live in a home, they need a job. How could you do- what would Jesus say?” And then at the end of some of these interviews, people would tell me the stories of how a child had come out to them and they didn’t speak for them for years and years and what wasted part of their lives and would I go out with a drink with them afterwards? They were very emotional interviews and you could just see the battle people were having with their beliefs and family and just everything. And that really, really stuck with me. And that was something where it was really about having them tell us stories, this narrative economics approach.

[00:23:18]

Jamin Brazil: And in that, those stories then informed, in this case, the evangelicals point of view on the specific issue of gay marriage and also the specific messaging landmines that need to be either avoided or addressed for easier legislative adoption.

[00:23:39]

Susan Fader: Right. So what happened was in the beginning was this open-end where they told us the story and then we actually showed them concrete print ads and television, online ads that we could do and how they responded to images. But we had the context, as opposed to when you start out just showing them advertised and they go, “I like that because that’s a pretty color.” Here we had a context of what was emotional to them and they were able to reference that. It came like a lie detector test because they had told the story from their guts and they then were able to really be articulate where the communication was working and where it had gone off the rails. And so we got very clear findings as opposed to a beauty contest where you usually do when you show them concepts or ads.

[00:24:32]

Jamin Brazil: Super interesting stuff. Well, I appreciate the explanation of narrative economics, a new thing for me and I’m definitely going to be diving into it. The application to research seems just amazing and I appreciate the tips that you gave, specifically the three words as a way to get participants to start framing up their stories.

[00:24:57]

Susan Fader: Right. And you tried the word should be descriptive words, adjectives, or adverbs. You really don’t want nouns. You want emotional. You want to know how they’re feeling and sometimes a little hard, but let them give you the words and then tell me the story behind the words. You said this word, this word, or this phrase. Help me understand. So you’re not going to say, “Tell me this word, tell me,” they’ve given you a framework of, they have now have a framework and now they can start telling you a story.

[00:25:27]

Jamin Brazil: So how do you frame the initial question?

[00:25:30]

Susan Fader: I’m going to give you a term and I would like you to give me three distinctly descriptive words or phrases that capture how you feel or think about what I’m going to say to you right now.

[00:25:45]

Jamin Brazil: Oh my gosh. I love that. Oh, awesome. Perfect. Great. I appreciate the clarity and the tactical and the strategy point of this has been super informative podcast, Susan. Thank you very much.

[00:26:00]

Susan Fader: Appreciate it. So you can see how from when I do this corporate speaking, how it’s reframing how people think about business challenges.

[00:26:12]

Jamin Brazil: To say the least. Our guest today has been Susan Fader, keynote speaker and founder of Fader Focus. Susan, thank you very much for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.

[00:26:23]

Susan Fader: It was a pleasure, as always.

[00:26:25]

Jamin Brazil: Everyone else, I hope you found as much value in this as I did. As always screen capture, share on social media, tag me and I will send you a t-shirt. Have a great day.

The post Ep. 578 – The Art of Research with Susan Fader: What is Narrative Economics and how to Utilize it in Your Business Strategy appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Anne Beall, Founder and CEO of Beall Research.

Founded in 2003, Beall Research is a strategic market research firm based in Chicago that services some of today’s top brands.

Anne holds a Ph.D. from Yale and has worked at Boston Consulting Group and National Analysts.

Find Anne Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annebeall/
Website: https://beallrt.com/
Strategic Market Research: A Guide to Conducting Research that Drives Businesses: https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Market-Research-Conducting-Businesses/dp/B0BMSNY2C2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=35L8235YT857C&keywords=strategic+market+research&qid=1669655461&sprefix=%2Caps%2C114&sr=8-1

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil
Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil

Find Us Online:

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch
Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp
Website: www.happymr.com

Music:

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

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It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today.

This episode is brought to you by HubUX is a research operation platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions, and surveys. For a limited time, user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com.

[00:00:00]

Jam Brazil: Hi, I’m Jamin. You’re listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. Our guest today is Anne Beall, founder and CEO of Beall Research. Founded in 2003, Beall Research is a strategic market research firm based in Chicago that services some of today’s top brands. Anne holds a PhD from Yale and has worked at Boston Consulting Group and National Analysts. Anne, thank you very much for joining me on the Happy Market Research podcast today.

[00:00:27]

Anne Beall: Well thank you for having me. I feel so happy just being here.

[00:00:35]

Jam Brazil: The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in marketing research program delivers the number one ranked insights and analytics degree in three formats. Full time on campus, full time online and part time online. New for 2022, if you can’t commit to their full degree program simply begin with one of their three core certifications. Insights design or insights analysis. In addition to the certification all the courses you complete will build towards your graduation. If you’re looking to achieve your full potential check out MSNU’s program at B-R-O-A-D.msu.edu/marketing. Again, B-R-O-A-D.msu.edu/marketing. HubUX is a research operations platform for private panel management, qualitative automation including video audition questions and surveys. For a limited time user seats are free. If you’d like to learn more or create your own account, visit hubux.com. Now you’ve been on the show before first in April 19, 2019. And later you covered one of my favorite episodes which was a discussion on what makes a good story. I know it’s crazy. Today we’re going to be talking about emotions. Specifically the role of emotion as it relates to brand, but before we do I want to talk a little bit about you being an author. So you are a prolific writer. You have six published books, including Strategic Market Research which is a guide to conducting research that drives businesses. And one of my favorites, Community Cats, a journey into the world of Feral Cats. What are you working on now?

[00:02:21]

Anne Beall: Well I have just released a book called Only Prince Charming Gets to Break the Rules. Gender and rule violation in fairy tales and life. So that’s a good Christmas gift for your daughters. But that’s one where we analyze fairy tales. We looked at 200 Fairy Tales from around the world. And we actually analyze them for who breaks the rules, who gets rewarded and who gets punished? Little spoiler alert here, we found that in general male characters break the rules much more than females and tend to get rewarded. Whereas female characters tend to get punished severely when they break the rules.

[00:03:05]

Jam Brazil: And we’re seeing some like, over the last I want to say five-ish years, we’re seeing more of the heroine role emerge. What’s your point of view? I’m thinking like, one of my favorite Disney movies actually is Brave.

[00:03:16]

Anne Beall: Yes.

[00:03:17]

Jam Brazil: What’s your view on how things are evolving?

[00:03:19]

Anne Beall: Well unfortunately they’re not evolving fast enough or well enough to make me happy. Unfortunately the Cinderella is, it’s a pretty traditional tale. Those are the heroines actually that do the best at the Box Office. So I don’t know if you saw the more recent Amazon version of Cinderella where she wants to be an entrepreneur, it bombed. But I do love Mulan, I loved Raya. I love some of the great female heroines occurring out of Disney but they are not as central enough to our culture to make as much of a difference as I like them. But I’m happy that they’re there.

[00:03:57]

Jam Brazil: It’s interesting, me 51 year old male, you say Princess and I immediately go to Cinderella and Snow White. Because that was the pool of princesses when I was a kid. I haven’t actually thought about that in the context of my daughter’s most recently. So my daughters, my youngest is five and she loves playing princess. But it is a really important point that you’re making around how we normalize who can lead and change and who can’t.

[00:04:30]

Anne Beall: Absolutely. So that’s kind of a fun book about, also I am releasing a new version. The fourth edition of Strategic Market Research. The book that you mentioned. So that will be out in a couple of weeks.

[00:04:42]

Jam Brazil: And I use that as curriculum in my MBA course. So thank you very much for that.

[00:04:46]

Anne Beall: You are so welcome.

[00:04:48]

Jam Brazil: So let’s get into the topics, emotion. It drives everything. We all know this although I do think that brands have been paying a lot more attention to emotion. Today we’re really trending in the last five years. So what does emotion, or rather how does emotion impact brand choice?

[00:05:07]

Anne Beall: Well it impacts it at a variety of levels. So there is an emotional response that we have to everything. That could be a positive response, a negative response or a neutral sort of immediate response we have. And you have that to an ad that goes across your screen. You have it at shelf where you see a brand in front of you. You have emotional responses that have been built up over many years. First thing when I see the Coca-Cola brand, things come to mind like Christmas and Santa Claus and family and years and years of Coca-Cola advertising have really connected these things with that brand for me and I have a positive emotional response to that brand. And so that’s the first place that works. The second place that it works is around emotional identification. You have a response to a brand that sort of you carry around. When you see certain things, oh you feel good or oh, you don’t feel so good. And then there’s a level of emotional identification that you have. I am not a carbonated soft drink person. So I don’t emotionally identify with Coca-Cola soft drink products particularly. So when I see the Coca-Cola in the can or the bottle or whatever, I don’t think oh, that’s not really a product for me. So there’s a level at which I kind of just don’t really connect with that brand in terms of emotionally identifying with it. But my running shoes, oh that’s a totally different story. I probably treat those better than some of my dress shoes. I emotionally identify with the sport. I emotionally identify with the many miles I’ve used them running. So there’s that. And then the last thing that emotions do is brands make us feel things about ourselves. When I take those running shoes out, I have a great run. I’m totally convinced of course if it’s, I’m such a great runner but maybe the shoes are giving me an edge and of course I’m taking good care of my health. After I finish a run I feel particularly good. I unlace my shoes. There’s a whole set of emotional things that are happening there. And when I see my shoes I have a certain reaction to them. And that is the case for a lot of things in our lives. Whether it’s the books we read, whether it’s the things we eat. The brands that we purchase that we use for our technology. Everything around you probably you have a reaction to and you either emotionally identify with it or maybe you don’t. And at some level it makes you feel certain things about yourself. We found that when people talked about the Apple brand and how they felt about themselves using it, they felt smarter, confident, in control. Well I don’t know about you Jamin, but anything that makes me feel smarter and more in control, I’m all for it. Bring it on.

[00:07:48]

Jam Brazil: I heard a, this goes back a number of years- a keynote by Wozniak, one of the co-founders of Apple. And he said that they were- one of the big surprises when they launched the Apple is that people felt the feeling of love when they held their phone. Which was not the case with flip phones by the way. There’s a totally different sort of different like connection framework. There’s a couple things that stand out to me. One is that obviously emotion is really important, duh, but your Coke example is a really good one that I connect with. Coke is one of my top five brands. However I don’t consume carbonated beverage. So I do connect with it. Like if I see a coke commercial I’m always in love with it. There’s never a [CROSSTALK].

[00:08:29]

Anne Beall: Yes.

[00:08:30]

Jam Brazil: Commercial right?

[00:08:30]

Anne Beall: No.

[00:08:31]

Jam Brazil: And I’m a Coke enthusiast, and yet I am not a consumer, I’m not a buyer.

[00:08:36]

Anne Beall: But you may buy Dasani, right?

[00:08:40]

Jam Brazil: Right. That’s true.

[00:08:41]

Anne Beall: That may be the place where it kind of bleeds over but if you don’t emotionally quite identify with it there’s going to be something that’s happening there. So you might buy that old Coke truck that they have the collector’s item. You might buy that. You might because you just kind of love the nostalgia.

[00:09:02]

Jam Brazil: 100%. So when you think about, I guess maybe we’re categorizing it as like customer loves strategies. Coke is obviously doing it really really well and has been for decades. Who are some companies from your vantage point that you think maybe you’re starting to do it really well?

[00:09:21]

Anne Beall: I think there are- I think there are a lot of companies that do this well. I think about like Asutra. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that brand. It’s A-S-U-T-R-A, but they’re all about self care. And they kind of say things like, self care isn’t selfish. And so they really make people feel a certain way about buying their products and services. So I think they’re connecting with an emotional need that you have. And when you buy their products and services you feel like you’re taking good care of yourself and they’re kind of in partnership with you on that. So I think that’s kind of a good example. I think there are companies out there, L’Oréal had for a long time, because I’m worth it. Which was getting into that whole notion of, this is something that you’re going to use because it’s higher quality. And by the way you are a worthwhile and valuable person and should take care of yourself and use things that are high quality. Things like that. I think these are good kind of classic examples of, and I think that, I can think of a million ads but I don’t know if you recall, when we were younger there used to be on the TV Calgon ads. Calgon, Calgon take me away. You and I remember that. That ad hasn’t shown in decades. But it did a good job of that. And the other ad you might recall is a picture of a baby in the middle of a tire. Do you recall that ad? That’s an iconic ad. And we did a lot of tire work for decades. And we’d say, have you seen any advertising that is notable? And people would always mention that ad, which by the way has not been shown in 30 years. But that’s a really good example of connecting with people in an emotional way and also telling the people that what you care about is what I care about. And so there’s a positive emotional- That was Michelin by the way that did that. People have a positive emotional response to Michelin. Michelin has done a great job of getting across the idea that their products are high quality and that they care about safety and you care about safety and so therefore there’s a level of emotional identification you’re going to have with their brand. And so these are good examples. But during the pandemic we saw a lot of people came to us actually and asked us for help with emotions. And we work with some pretty major companies that were trying to figure this out and trying to help navigate this whole brand connection especially when people are suffering.

[00:11:51]

Jam Brazil: For sure. It’s so interesting the, I’d forgotten all about that. Calagrin? Calgarin? How do you say?

[00:11:57]

Anne Beall: Calgon.

[00:11:58]

Jam Brazil: Calgon, there it is, take me away. I totally remember that and then the other one that stands out to me as we go down memory lane is where’s the beef?

[00:12:06]

Anne Beall: Exactly.

[00:12:08]

Jam Brazil: But again like an emotional connection to funny like a humorous commercials is not- Can be as powerful as a heartfelt one.

[00:12:16]

Anne Beall: Absolutely, but the point is that they’re getting across that people are dissatisfied and they’re kind of reckoning with that.

[00:12:25]

Jam Brazil: How do companies measure emotion?

[00:12:28]

Anne Beall: Companies measure emotion in lots of different ways. We have done everything from observational coding of people and their body language. I was just writing in the book that I’ve been revising about a piece of work that we did for a major pet manufacturer, food manufacturer, who had a- Created a version of a Walmart and we had people shot this and we actually coded whether they approached the aisle, what kind of facial expressions they showed. We actually coded if they touched anything, how close they got to certain things, how long they spent. And we had a prototype aisle that was exactly like the one at Walmart. And then we had a test shelf which had some new products on it. And then we asked people if they preferred one aisle or the other. And people claimed they had a preference but the preference was equally split. They couldn’t tell us what the difference was between either aisle. They had no idea, but were able to show, they showed more expressions of surprise and delight in the test shell aisle. They spent longer in that aisle and it actually handled more food and put more items in their basket in that aisle. And even though they claimed, oh I prefer the aisle over there, they didn’t prefer the test shelf aisle any more than they preferred the regular aisle. But their behavior told us everything. They were more engaged. So that’s one example that we do a lot of work where we have people do self-reported emotional experience. And so they’ll tell us what their immediate emotional response is to things and how they have strongly they feel certain things and how likely they are to purchase and how likely they are to be loyal. And what emotions are particularly felt the strongest. So we do it in a few different ways.

[00:14:11]

Jam Brazil: The quantifying it is interesting. It really is. It’s hard to self-report accurately your emotional state.

[00:14:16]

Anne Beall: It’s actually, that’s actually not true. It’s actually I think.

[00:14:19]

Jam Brazil: Really?

[00:14:20]

Anne Beall: It’s actually the case that what we found is the self-reported emotion is the most predictive because it’s what you labelled and identified and you were aware of.

[00:14:31]

Jam Brazil: That makes sense.

[00:14:33]

Anne Beall: If I see you have an emotional response to something and then I say to you, oh Jamin, what just happened back there? And you’re looking at me like, huh? Well I saw you had an emotional response to something that was said in conversation but it may be momentary and you kind of moved on. But if you say to me, oh man I got to tell you, boy was I angry, let me tell you about why. The fact that you can label it and the fact that you’re still recalling it and can describe it actually is more predictive of your behavior and it’s more likely it’s important than if I saw it but you didn’t internally label it.

[00:15:09]

Jam Brazil: I love being wrong. I think the- I had originally connected it to something like a purchase intent right? But you’re- Now that you’re, as you’re explaining it you’re exactly right. And I hadn’t considered the role of labeling to the feeling as a form of enforcement.

[00:15:29]

Anne Beall: Absolutely. And people often say, oh well you just can’t- Emotions you got to, there has to be something measured that’s like on the face or you have to put some GSR tape on you or something. It’s not true. The fact is if I get your report I’ve got probably the biggest experiences internally for you.

[00:15:50]

Jam Brazil: When you pull back and you’ve done a volume, a ton of work. I actually heard you present on emotion. I think it was in conjunction with GoDaddy.

[00:15:57]

Anne Beall: Yes.

[00:15:57]

Jam Brazil: Which goes back years ago. Do you have a favorite project?

[00:16:01]

Anne Beall: Oh goodness, I have so many favorite projects. I have said, I was just writing about a project that we did for a laundry manufacturer, laundry detergent manufacturer. They had created a new scent product. Something you stick into your wash and it makes your clothes smell really good. And I remember that we videotaped people opening the very first, opening the bottle for the first time. They had to take it home and use it for one month. And they opened the bottle and we videotaped their reaction. And then they gave us a rating, and you could tell that some of the words were like, oh wow this is terrible. And you can also tell someone, we’re like oh wow, this is great. But their facial response to that initial scent was completely predictive of what happened at the end of the study. The women who had a negative reaction to it, even often they said it was good product. They even rated it highly, at the end of the study they would not use it after the study was concluded. The women who had that initial positive reaction were going to buy it after the study. And I thought how interesting that that one moment was, I didn’t even need to use it for a month. It’s that emotional reaction, so clear.

[00:17:22]

Jam Brazil: It’s interesting the attributable value of that first experience. It starts really pointing to the brilliance behind Apple investing in packaging.

[00:17:31]

Anne Beall: Yes, and boxing. Huge. Absolutely. That’s one of my favorite ones, but I have many. They’re all different in their own way and they all make me smarter about this topic as I move along in this journey of my own.

[00:17:47]

Jam Brazil: When you look forward to the next five years, so you’re benefiting right now because you’re one of the leaders if not the leader in this emotional measurement for market research or consumer insights more broadly. What do you see as a trend in our space or inside of brands relative to consumer intelligence or consumer insights?

[00:18:09]

Anne Beall: It’s a good question. I feel as though, I think that like Simon Chadwick said recently that consumer insights people have really taken a seat at the table. We add more value than ever because the pandemic really caused people to turn to insights people and ask really big questions that we were able to answer. And so I see market research as continuing to be influential and continuing to deepen its role within organizations. I think that insights, I think, will become more strategic and will become more focused on knitting together many different projects and many different initiatives and become more of a consultant in a way. That if that’s the way I kind of see us moving as being much more less project based and more organizational based if that makes sense.

[00:19:05]

Jam Brazil: It does. My friend he’s a senior insights lead at Adobe. He and I had a conversation, had a talk at insights, sorry the, it wasn’t it was Green Books iEX, this past April. And it was really interesting how he is now, he now gives presentations. He’s not doing like the book of presentations anymore. He will involve stakeholders throughout the research process from, well who do you want to talk to you? Why are they important? To discussion guides or surveys. What do you expect to get out each question to like early at a glance, top line results, even preliminary results, what do you think about this? And then the actual like presentation, the formal presentation is maybe 5% data and then 95% discussion and strategy.

[00:19:53]

Anne Beall: That seems like the right way. And I, we you and I have always had the focus that when want to help organizations and we use market research as a tool to do that. But I think it’s, I was on a call today with a major client of ours and we were telling them what the results were but every single slide that we were presenting was like, OK so here’s the implication for you. You guys really need to be doing X, are you doing X? So it felt, but it felt like more of a partnership and more of a consultancy than it did a- Here’s the data.

[00:20:28]

Jam Brazil: Totally. It’s nice to see finally in my career, market research is really the rudder of action inside organizations. And I truly believe that. Like there’s not a single brand I talked to, and there’s a lot of them, where they’re leading with insights or getting the customer’s point of view at the point of decision is really, it’s really key.

[00:20:46]

Anne Beall: It is.

[00:20:48]

Jam Brazil: We’re stepping into 2023. I still don’t have a space car but that’s OK. What is your personal motto?

[00:20:54]

Anne Beall: My personal motto is always the same every year. And it’s the one I was taught as a little girl by my father who told me look at everything that happens to you as an opportunity. And I can tell you during the pandemic because we specialize in emotions, I hired a PR firm and we got out there and got our message across and we published widely and we had 12 new clients. And when we looked at everything that’s happened has been for the good. As I’m revising these books going forward and as we’re, next year I’ll be doing a lot more traveling and a lot more speaking. And so, I just, I feel like life is a huge gift and I just look at all the things that happen as giving me some springboard and some platform.

[00:21:48]

Jam Brazil: Our guest today has been Anne Beall, founder and CEO of Beall Research. Anne, thank you for being on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.

[00:21:55]

Anne Beall: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:21:57]

Jam Brazil: Everyone else, I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. I hope you have a great rest of your day. As always, if you screen capture, share this on social media specifically LinkedIn. Tag me, I will send you a t-shirt. Have a great rest of your day.

The post Ep. 577 – 3 Ways Emotion Impacts Consumers and Their Brand Choices with Anne Beall, Founder and CEO of Beall Research appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Our guest today is Hunter Thurman, President of Alpha-Diver. Alpha-Diver is a consultancy that leverages neuroscience to help brands target the right consumers and identifies the best moments for activation. Prior to starting Alpha-Diver, Hunter served as a Consultant for WPP in Global Insights, Strategy, and Innovation. Additionally, he served as an Innovation Strategy Mentor...

The post Ep. 576 – Why Leverage Neuroscience to Measure Consumer & Shopper Behavior with Hunter Thurman, President of Alpha-Diver appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Our guest today is Marbue Brown, founder of “The Customer Obsession Advantage” and author of the “Blueprint for Customer Obsession.” Prior to starting his own consulting firm, Marbue has served as the Head of Customer Experience at Chase, Global Lead of Customer Experince at Amazon, and Senior Director of Customer Experience Measurement at Microsoft. Find...

The post Ep. 575 – How Customer-Obsessed Companies are Winning, with Marbue Brown, Founder of the Customer Obsession Advantage appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Hi Fam! You are listening to the happy market research podcast. Be warned, today’s episode is a bit self serving. In 2019, I co-founded HubUX. A research operation platform for private panel management, DIY recruitment and qualitative automation. Why? Because opinions are moving fast AF. In fact, Gen Z defines themself as the generation that...

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The post Ep. 573 – Why Invest in Customer Satisfaction – Michael Brereton, the Executive in Residence for the Department of Marketing at Michigan State University appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Emmanuel Probst, the Global Lead of Brand Thought-Leadership & Senior Vice President of Brand Health Tracking at IPSOS, Author, and Professor at UCLA. Founded in 1975 and headquartered in Paris France, Ipsos is among the largest global market research and consulting firms. Ipsos has over 18,000 employees and serves more than...

The post Ep. 572 – A Guide to Tracking Research with Emmanuel Probst, the Global Lead of Brand Thought-Leadership & Senior Vice President of Brand Health Tracking at IPSOS appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Kate Ioas, Senior Customer Insights at Abercrombie & Fitch. The original Abercrombie & Fitch was founded in 1892 in New York City by David T. Abercrombie as an outfitter for the elite outdoorsman. Today Abercrombie & Fitch has over 44,000 employees serving 854 locations. Prior to joining Abercrombie & Fitch, Kate...

The post Ep. 571 – Kate Ioas, Senior Customer Insights at Abercrombie & Fitch, on the 4 Types of Segmentations and When to Use Them appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Ashley Le Blanc, Executive Vice President of Little Bird Marketing. Insights Marketing Day 2022: Location: Chicago, IL Date: October 6, 2022 Tickets: https://events.bizzabo.com/imd-chicago-2022 Website: https://www.insights-marketing.org/ Find Ashley Online: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleymariahleblanc/ Little Bird Marketing: https://littlebirdmarketing.com/ Find Jamin Online: Email: jamin@happymr.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil Find Us Online: Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch Facebook:...

The post Ep. 570 – Ashley Le Blanc, Executive Vice President of Little Bird Marketing, on Insights Marketing Day 2022: Marketing Expertise for Market Research Companies appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Susan Fader, founder of FaderFocus. Susan has run FaderFocus as a Business Strategist and Transformationalist Catalyst specializing in qualitative methods and strategic consulting. She helps clients achieve focus and get “unstuck”, reframing their energies, their confirmational biases, and the traditional ways of segmenting their customers. Find Susan Online: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fadersusan/ FaderFocus:...

The post Ep. 569 – The Art of Research with Susan Fader: When and how to Apply Cognitive Demographics appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is George Carey, Founder and CEO of The Family Room. Founded 29 years ago, The Family Room is a market intelligence company that helps brands connect emotion to brand relevance and growth. Fifteen years ago, The Family Room launched a global longitudinal tracking with a proprietary framework called Passion Points. This data...

The post Ep. 568 – How to Measure Consumer Emotions Using Passion Points with George Carey, Founder and CEO of The Family Room appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Daniel Fitzgerald, CEO and President of Apollo Intelligence. Founded in 2020, Apollo provides access to 2M healthcare stakeholders worldwide — including physicians, patients, caregivers, and allied healthcare professionals — serving the life science insights industry on its mission to accelerate health innovation to improve life. They support 80 of the top...

The post Ep. 567 – Importance of Capturing the POV of Healthcare Customers with Daniel Fitzgerald, CEO and President of Apollo Intelligence appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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My guest today is Susan Fader, founder of FaderFocus. Susan Fader is Business Strategist and Transformationalist Catalyst, as well as a sought after Speaker for her original thinking of reframing business challenges and baseline assumptions. She specializes in strategic consulting and qualitative research methods. She helps clients achieve focus and get “un-stuck,” reframing their energies,...

The post Ep. 566 – The Art of Research with Susan Fader: What is Cognitive Demographics and how it Differs From Traditional Demographics appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Find Jamin Online: Email: jamin@happymr.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil Find Us Online: Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp Website: www.happymr.com Music: “Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com This Episode is Sponsored by: The Michigan State University’s Master of Science in Marketing Research Program delivers the #1 ranked insights and analytics graduate degree in three formats: Full-time on campus Full-time online Part-time online NEW...

The post Ep. 565 – HMRP Monday Edition: Intergenerational Views on the Job Market – Part 2 appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Today I’m joined by Joe Mulvaney, Senior Vice President of NA for Qualitative at Schlesinger Group. Schlesinger Group is a technology-led data company that delivers a broad range of qualitative and quantitative research solutions to connect human answers to business questions as a single point of access to your worldwide audiences. Prior to starting joining...

The post Ep. 564 – Transitioning Into a new Career with Joe Mulvaney, Senior Vice President of NA for Qualitative at Schlesinger Group appeared first on Happy Market Research.

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Today I’m joined by Daniel Berkal, SVP of Research at The Palmerston Group. Founded in 2008, The Palmerston Group is a qualitative market research agency. Prior to joining The Palmerston Group, Daniel served in senior roles at Young & Rubicam, Research International, and Synovate. He is also a professor at Humber College in Toronto Canada. ...

The post Ep. 563 – Why you Should use TikTok for Research and how to get Started with Daniel Berkal, SVP of Research at The Palmerston Group appeared first on Happy Market Research.

Happy MR Podcast Archives - Happy Market Research: Recent Episodes

Jamin Brazil