Marketing Retro Podcast: Recent Episodes
Adrienne & Josh
Adrienne and Josh's weekly marketing podcast where two friends discuss their opinions on varying marketing topics
www.marketingretro.com
Thanks so much for a great season 1! Josh and Adrienne have big plans, goals, and family plans so we’re taking the summer off to focus on those things.
We’ll be back in September to share more of what’s on our mind!
Have a great summer!
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Do you know what kind of marketer you are? Adrienne went through practice to gain clarity on her marketing strengths, weaknesses, and areas of learning.
If you’d like to go through the exercise yourself, here’s the post from Emily Kramer’s newsletter outlining the various types of marketers’ roles and their functions.
If you’re looking for full-time work, or clients this could be a helpful exercise in sharing your expertise. For a bonus impact, add results, stats, and numbers to each area.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Kamil Rextin chats about the work 42 Agency does and how developing a diverse team has helped the agency serve clients creatively.
Find Kamil here.
Find 42 Agency here.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
In this episode, Josh and Adrienne explore the benefits of bringing on a generalist assistant or a specialist.
Adrienne shares her experience hiring VAs from both individuals and an agency.
Know the variety of playbooks available, but always do what’s best for you and your own business.
Decide what to hire and how to lead:
- What do you enjoy?
Even if some say it’s a waste of time for a founder to perform some tasks, if it’s something you enjoy, why would you hire that out? Josh used the example of how he still mows his own lawn, despite most of his neighbors hiring a landscape service.
- What do you dread?
Know what you hate to do and be comfortable hiring that out.
- Learn how people want to work, hear feedback, and praise.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Kamil Rextin from 42 Agency joins Adrienne and Josh on Marketing Retro to dig into a recent tweet about Kamil’s hypothesis that there’s a connection between interest rates being zero and the booming creator market.
We defined creators as individual people monetizing from audiences and promoting via social platforms.
From Kamil's perspective, it used to be okay to take risks without having tons of data or worrying about conversions because interest rates were low. However, things have changed now that interest rates are higher. It's not as easy to get money as it was before. This could have an impact on the creator economy, especially for those who rely on B2B sponsorships and deals with brands.
There’s a huge disconnect between people selling to other people, and creators relying on B2B companies.
Some key takeaways:
-
B2B companies need to understand their attribution metrics.
-
Creators should create multiple streams of revenue.
-
A new content creator may find it challenging to gain the same momentum as someone who started two or three years ago, possibly due to the current state of things.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne talk about what tactical efforts can be made to ensure you’re operating as efficiently as possible.
Look at the most important pieces of marketing first: buyer’s journey, homepage analytics, and low-hanging fruit.
-
Know how you compare to industry standards.
-
What are the cap rates for each area of your focus? What is the opportunity cost to increase certain benchmarks?
-
Find industry benchmarks from industry reports, Databox benchmark reports
-
How to identify if you’re reaching a point of diminishing returns? Look at data holistically, what low-hanging fruit is available, and where are there leaks in your funnel that can be tightened and refined.
-
Buyer’s journey: How to identify opportunities in your buyer’s journey?
What does the model of attribution look like?
-
Look at one thing at a time, before changing all things. Keep a record of changes that have been made, when you made them, and what were the results of the test.
-
Align all copy campaign material with your positioning and messaging.
-
Tie your KPIs to larger organizational goals. This helps each team member understand exactly how their job and responsibilities help the overall org meet its goals.
-
Slow down to get back to speed.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Part of One of our series on “The year of efficiency”. We look into how you run efficient teams and efficient marketing practices.
We talk a bit about “ChatGPT” and how a marketer can use it to create efficient processes.
- Do you really know your buyer’s journey? There’s a clear need to understand the steps your buyers go through when buying your product, but often marketers aren’t looking closely at the data.
Understand your numbers clearly. Look into your CRMs, go back to your customer, and nuanced understanding of your customer’s behavior.
How We’ve Used ChatGPT for Efficiency
-
To help find holes in your content, or create an outline.
-
Treat it as a partner in your process, not a replacement.
-
Dynamic ad keyword research
-
Messaging Mapping
-
Job description from video transcript
-
Ask ChatGPT for feedback on a piece
-
Expert participated and contributed AI articles
-
New hire knowledge hub
-
Creative ad brainstorming
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
There are so many challenges that one-person marketing teams face. One of the best executions is when the marketer is the “final say person” and is the manager and strategist who utilizes the talent of agencies and freelancers.
The most important job of the one-person marketer is to share your particular marketing expertise with your boss. And be able to teach them how your expertise ties to revenue.
How to level up as a one-person marketing team:
-
Utilize consultants
-
Build a team of freelancers
-
Set expectations in output and cadence of content and marketing initiatives
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Many companies are missing the mark on why their customers buy their products.
Three buckets of people you want to interview to understand JTBD:
-
New Customers
-
Long Term Customers
-
Loss deals
Josh is curious about interviewing his customers, customers. This might be challenging, but Josh would want to know how they were referred to a new product.
Josh and Adrienne Brainstorm about interviewing as lead gen:
-
Choose 25 favorite clients
-
Interview their customers
-
Show the interview to the company and let them know about the buying triggers found.
-
Use social listening to find customers to interview
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
How do you vet a marketing professional in an ethical way. There’s a challenge in the hiring market today, for folks who want to hire qualified folks and understand their qualifications, without asking for free work.
It often comes down to conversations with the marketer to understand their skillset and where your need overlap.
For an early stage startup it can often be disappointing to hire a marketer with a specific skillset, when you aren’t sure are on what kind of skillset you need. Early stage startups, might want to consider a full-stack marketer.
A good way to find marketers it so listen to them on podcasts, and hear what they think about complex marketing problems and interested issues they’ve overcome.
Or opt for a short-term project where you can see the marketers skill set, and understand their strengths and work ethic.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh is on his marketing tour-networking with a lot of marketers as he looks to fill a potential role on his team.
Most startups will need a fCMO to be a person who can devise a strategy while also executing their ideas.
What are some things a qualified fCMO must have:
-
Can navigate multiple marketing channels.
-
Understands analytics and can tie marketing channels to revenue.
-
Knows how to internally sell initiatives.
-
Can implement new campaigns and monitor success.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne talk about what the current economy looks like and how it can impact marketers, especially those in B2B SaaS.
As a caveat, Josh and Adrienne are not market experts and are not giving any advice. We’re two people being impacted and want to share our perspectives.
Some thoughts on how to operate in weird times:
- Rent space where you can.
As a business owner operating at odd times, hire long-term contractors before hiring full-time in-house.
-
Don’t keep up with the Jones’
-
Follow your own customers and their demands.
Key Takeaway:
Get your house in order. Know your metrics, numbers, and customers.
p.s. We recorded this episode last week, before the SVB collapse. That would have changed a lot of what we said, but we wanted to share the episode and our thoughts on this current market because the final takeaway is still important.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Right offer, right price... We’ve been thinking a lot about value exchange in different circumstances. So often, marketers ask their customers or audience members to pay a price, but don’t consider if the content is worth it.
Josh and Adrienne talk about value exchanges in marketing and how to really make it worth it, no matter the price.
Places where a commitment is required
Examples
-
Demo request
-
Gated content
-
Purchase
Motivation- the audience may want what you have, but they aren’t sure if it’ll be worth the price they pay
- What's on the other side of the offer?
It’s not the gate that people hate, it’s the crappy content on the other side. If the marketer provides something amazing, then an email address feels like a no-brainer.
Friction
-
Examples
-
Email address
-
Other fields
-
Trade-off
-
Lose volume some people
-
Qualifier for right people
Examples We’ve Seen Work
Gated Content
-
Downloadable content
-
Quiz
-
Email Drip courses
Consultants ( Fixed Cost Analysis - Low Commit) Example
-
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heyrobk/
-
https://hdwy.notion.site/hdwy/Get-feedback-on-your-homepage-from-Product-Marketing-experts-ba81f2d246ca4b2aa43d07ef9c40e01f
-
https://twitter.com/jdnoc
-
Grow your business with SEO - Rank To Sell
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Adrienne and Josh chat about how marketing teams can use frameworks to produce quality assets that help achieve internal goals.
What is a framework?
A system that clarifies thinking and provides parameters for thinking.
Some Favorite Frameworks:
-
Hubspot’s Flywheel
-
Jobs-to-be-done
-
Skyscraper Technique
Some downfalls of frameworks:
-
the context to be the right fit for the framework.
-
Be ok to bend the rules of the framework.
-
Sometimes the outputs aren’t determined
-
When it’s heavily restrictive, you may have a template, not a framework
Identify the problem, then chose a framework to help you achieve your outcomes.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
The 42/Agency Process was a different approach to putting together a “thought-piece” in their newsletter. Josh and Adrienne take a look at how the team takes what feels like a casual conversation and turned it into high-value content.
Ways 42/Agency Created a Thought-Leadership Piece:
-
Approached the interview as a conversation and somewhat open-ended.
-
Listen to the conversation and let it direct the narrative of the content rather than looking for points to back up an already-established narrative.
-
The in-depth nuanced style content takes longer, but will be much more valued in the world of AI written content.
-
Can a brand have the long term viewpoint on content creation?
-
Find some great journalists to help with content.
Great examples of companies creating content in a different way:
-
Sparktoro
-
Databox
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne talk about the nuance of content repurposing. There are social norms and rules that people have created for themselves about what is acceptable about content repurposing and what is not acceptable.
The Two Ways People View Social Media
-
Want to create community and see social media as a conversation.
-
See social media as a billboard that doesn’t require interaction and engagement.
What works to build your social following:
-
Have a good hook
-
Create quality
-
Share on the right platforms
At the end of the day, we acknowledge that creating content is hard. And it’s always best to use that content in as many ways as you possible can.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne ask what it takes when bringing on new team members and how people work best.
The first thing to consider is, “do I need this person to do things exactly the way I do them?” Or “Do I need this person to execute exactly the way I do, and replace me when needed?”
-
When hiring someone new understand how they work best.
-
Set clear expectations on how you work best.
-
What’s your best method for communication?
-
What’s your M.O.?
-
Is there such thing as a culture fit.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Adrienne and Josh talk about their favorite ecommerce and CPG brands. And dive into how great brands create an experience that creates a feeling of how the consumer wants to feel.
-
Customer experience is one of the great differentiators for brands.
-
Influencers can create trust for brands if the brand hasn’t built trust on its own.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
How do align marketing assets when resources are low? Taking advantage of all of your resources will be a valuable skill as B2B SaaS marketers navigate through the current economy.
-
You likely have more assets within your organization than you’re aware of.
-
Aligning marketing assets with current needs and resonance within the organization
-
Share assets across the organization
Categories of Assets Josh mentions
Talent / People Skills
-
Founders / Team members
-
Examples .. Tactical skills
-
Thought Leadership Content Marketing
-
SEO
-
Copywriting for Landing Pages
-
Technical writing
-
Demand Generation
-
B2B Social Media
-
Product Design UI/UX
-
Product Management
-
Customer Advocacy
-
Customer Systems + Integration Workflows (CRMs, CMS, Zapier)
-
Email Newsletter/Publication Communication Writing to Customers & Prospects
-
Customer Interviews
-
Product Launches
-
Video Content Creation
-
People Management
-
Project Management
-
Partnership Management
-
Creating frameworks for explaining concepts
Distribution - Access to people
-
Email lists
-
Customers
-
Newsletter subscribers
-
Communities?
-
SEO Traffic
-
Social Media Following
-
Networks (people)
-
Partnerships/Friends....
-
Side of a truck
-
Side of building
Content
-
Quizzes
-
PDFs
-
Calculators
-
"Universities / learning centers"
-
Hubspot Academy
Access to Insights
-
Sales team (recordings) a la gong?
-
CRM data
-
Product usage data
-
Aggregate customer data
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh shares one of his favorite marketing strategies: finding underutilized real estate in Referral Rock’s marketing.
What does underutilized real estate mean? It’s when marketing is found in unexpected but intentional places.
Obvious Marketing Places:
-
Home Page
-
Landing Pages
-
Social Media
-
Newsletter
Underutilized Marketing Places:
-
Customer Onboarding
-
Email footers
-
After form pages- demo request, white paper, lead magnet, etc
-
“powered by” brand
-
Zoom links and backgrounds
-
Social Media bios
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh tells us why he took a homepage conversion course. He tells us about his buying process, how this impulse buy was perfect timing and how he was nurtured through the buying process.
Josh’s takeaways from the live course:
-
How your team should be set up and structured
-
Breakout rooms with a similar focus
-
Hero section should answer- what is the product? who is for? why is better?
-
Have a clear CTA
-
Ignore established companies’ homepages
-
Examples of following the CTA. Walk through the customer experience on your own.
-
Ugly footers are ok.
-
Josh took the course as a calendar block to make corrections to his own site
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Adrienne shares her thoughts about launching in general.
-
Always work from the end to the beginning.
-
What’s the main goal?
-
Who are we talking to?
-
Where do those people hang out?
-
What’s a good timeline for launch that doesn’t exhaust your audience, and builds excitement?
-
Josh challenges the idea of a launch of an evergreen podcast.
-
Isn’t people’s attention sparse? If you’ve got their attention during the “launch” shouldn’t you just share the podcast?
-
Momemtun is important.
-
Ideas to boost engagement, but not tease
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne share what’s on their Christmas wish list this year!
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
A company’s newsletter strategy is one of the most obvious pieces of marketing to your audience.
What is Josh’s approach at Referral Rock?
-
different teams own different announcements within the company
-
try to stay top of mind with low cadence and not product-specific emails
-
Josh tells the story of “Word of Mouth”
-
How does Josh create predictability and consistency with a newsletter?
Adrienne’s Newsletter Thoughts
-
Curated newsletters make it easier to create consistency
-
Newsletters should not be a low funnel and try to sell
-
Does your newsletter topic have enough breadth to be a consistent newsletter?
-
What’s a good newsletter cadence?
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
In this episode, Josh and Adrienne talk about Adrienne’s most recent messaging shift, and what new offerings she has coming.
-
Adrienne shares how she started doing marketing research and Best Buyer Persona.
-
The big mistake she made by naming it “Best Buyer Persona”
-
The advice to marinate in the problem
-
How to shift messaging and let go of your “brand”
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Josh and Adrienne are both parents of young children and discuss their challenges, concerns, and approaches to allowing their kids online.
We’re curious, are we too conservative? Or is our approach just right?
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
In this episode, Josh and Adrienne share their origin story in more detail and how to create a systemized approach to following up. We found that often, following up is made to be much more complicated and intrusive than it actually is.
We’re curious, what kind of following-up system works for you?
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
How Brand Makes Our Buying Decisions for us.
-
Josh and Adrienne talk about brand as an ecosystem.
-
Brand can make your product decisions for you.
What makes something a “brand”
-
Can you be a brand early on?
-
Do we consider ourselves a brand
Is Brand created internally by the company or externally from the consumers?
When do you know you’re a brand?
Does Brand relate to BTC or can B2B SaaS have a brand?
What’s the difference between a brand and a business?
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Pre-Market vs Post-Market Fit Approach to Content Marketing
2:13- The founder must make content marketing a priority.
4:15- Sales vs brand and content
5:30- What is product market fit?
6:24- Thought-leadership content (ugh..cringe)
11:30- Referral Rock’s strategy in the early days
13:30- Should a founder practice their business messaging on their personal brand?
18:45- Turning a founder anecdote into a post
19:45: The founder will never regret building a personal brand
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
It’s hard to measure a marketer
1:50- It’s all relative. Everything a marketer creates is up to the opinions and tastes of others.
2:57- The job of a marketer is to get other’s attention
3:30- We aren’t as important to others as we think we are
5:45- Is there a clear formula for success
7:30- Does your boss have an influence on your imposter syndrome?
10:10- Is imposter syndrome a part of the human experience?
11:35- How can marketers overcome imposter syndrome?
14:15- Does imposter syndrome live in your lizard brain?
16:25- What do you control in your situation
18:00- Take a step back and evaluate what you control
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
-
Josh Ho is the founder and CEO of Referral Rock.
-
Referral Rock acquired its first customer in June 2015.
-
What is Josh most proud of when it comes to growing Referal Rock?
-
Adrienne is a consultant for B2B SaaS companies. She started as a freelance writer and has grown into a growth and research consultant.
-
It took Adrienne two years to go from an idea and purchased domain about Best Buyer Persona to it being a profitable service.
-
Shoot your shot
-
The embarrassing way (for Adrienne) Josh and Adrienne first met.
-
Why Playbooks are the antithesis of marketing
A little About Josh
Josh has a lot of behind-the-scenes impacts and opinions on marketing but is always looking to learn more and improve his marketing expertise. He’s not the average indie SaaS founder that ignores marketing and builds more features, he understands the power of marketing and has used SEO early on to grow Referal Rock.
Josh really wants to share his knowledge and approach toward marketing.
A little about Adrienne
Adrienne is a consultant for B2B SaaS companies. She began as a freelance writer and quickly realized that most companies don’t understand who their customers are, which became her service Best Buyer Perona.
Adrienne wants to think through marketing concepts and learn from various experiments.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
Not all CEOs allow marketing teams to talk to customers. Adrienne is sure there are valid reasons, but she's only ever heard from other marketers on this issue and wants to hear Josh's take.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
It takes practice and sometimes harsh commentary to get it right. Adrienne and Josh talk about the similarities between a comedian's set and a brand's message.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
As a marketer, what’s the biggest marketing ploy you’ve ever fallen for? Adrienne fell for one BIG TIME which led to a discussion on all kinds of marketing repackaging we don't even realize.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com
A classic debate among content marketers where Josh and Adrienne have a few thoughts coming from their varying perspectives.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.marketingretro.com