Overloaded: Understanding Neglect: Recent Episodes

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guest:

• Nathan Fink, chief advancement officer at Family Connects; former visiting professor of writing, rhetoric, and discourse at DePaul University; former podcast host of New Hampshire Family Now; and technical producer of Season 4 of Overloaded.

Also featured (archival clips from the season):

• Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, Dr. Bruce Perry, Desmond Meade, Rinku Sen, Valerie Frost, Tshaka Barrows, Prudence Beidler Carr, Shary Tran

00:15–03:34 – Luke Waldo

Luke opens the season finale by bringing his technical producer, Nathan Fink, to the foreground for the first time. After a season of conversations about the science, strategy, and humanity of storytelling, this episode steps behind the curtain to examine how the season was actually made: the choices, tensions, creative principles, and behind-the-scenes partnership that shaped what listeners heard.

03:34–11:03 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: How the Season Began

Luke and Nathan trace the season's origin to the 2025 Prevent Child Abuse America conference in Portland, Oregon, where they recorded interviews for PCAA's podcast, The Shift, with Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, Dr. Bruce Perry, Desmond Meade, and others. These were standalone interviews with no designed connective tissue between them. But across almost every conversation, Luke began hearing the same thread: the stories we tell ourselves, and how those stories either keep us stuck or open new possibilities.

Nathan describes the balance their partnership found. Luke brings deep field expertise and years of practice in the subject matter; Nathan brings a storyteller's instinct and a journalist's ear for what's actually being said versus what's being asked. The creative principle they landed on: do the preparation thoroughly, then let go of it in the room. Be in the conversation you're in, not the one you planned. Nathan illustrates this with a reference to Charlie Parker, who said if he had to practice one thing for his whole life he'd practice scales, because when he got on stage, he forgot everything he'd practiced, he lived in it.

15:45–23:37 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: How Season 4 Took Shape

Luke describes the creative genesis of Season 4: the Portland interviews were not yet a season, but a recurring pattern was becoming visible. Every major conversation, whether about brain science, voting rights, clinical psychology, or child welfare, kept returning to the stories we tell ourselves and how those stories trap us or liberate us. Dr. Nadine Burke Harris named it explicitly. Tshaka Barrows named it through the railroad tracks metaphor. Desmond Meade named it through the power of a single question asked across political divides.

The season's connective thread emerged from those patterns: if we can't challenge harmful mental models, no amount of evidence will shift the systems built on them. Luke credits Dr. Burke Harris's "code card" metaphor as a turning point; the idea that a new narrative, like a medical response protocol, has to be practiced until it becomes the reflexive response, not just understood intellectually.

This crystallized the role of Jess Moyer and the FrameWorks Institute as the season's co-pilot; providing not just insights, but the discipline and methodology to move from telling good stories to building narratives that embed themselves and shift mental models over time. Luke notes that the title Overloaded itself came from FrameWorks' work with Prevent Child Abuse America on reframing childhood adversity.

27:00–37:05 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: Standout Episodes and Creative Choices

Luke names Episode 7 (Do Stories Really Work?) as possibly his favorite episode across all four seasons, crediting Nathan's editing artistry for weaving Megan McGee, Rinku Sen, Tarik Moody, Jess Moyer and Dr. Uri Hasson into a coherent, propulsive narrative that demonstrated the very principles it was describing. Episode 9 (Recipes for Success: Building Community Through Food, Art, and Culture) emerged from a pattern neither of them had anticipated: nearly every guest, unprompted, returned to the power of shared meals and sensory experience as the prerequisite for genuine connection and narrative change.

• Design principle: Nathan describes the odd-numbered collage episodes as "I'm not going to tell you anymore, I'm going to show you," using ambient sound, music, and first-person voices to create the experience of connection rather than just describing it.

38:00–48:26 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: Hard Decisions and Political Terrain

Luke and Nathan address one of the season's most difficult creative decisions: the inclusion of an immigration raid clip in Episode 8, sourced from a 2012 news report during the Shattered Families segment with Rinku Sen. Luke's initial reaction when he heard it was visceral; it startled him, and his instinct was to protect listeners who might be personally affected by what was happening in Minneapolis at the time of recording.

Nathan's perspective: the clip was chosen deliberately to show how far the goalposts had moved over a decade, and to make the abstract concrete. His question was whether the podcast could keep listeners who held dominant narratives, even unwittingly, engaged long enough for the counter-narrative to land. Drawing on Rinku Sen's teaching, both agreed that you can speak to people, but you cannot speak at them.

• Key insight: When we lead with content that triggers rage or fear, we activate the amygdala and close off the reflective, integrative parts of the brain. People cannot hear a better narrative if they are in survival mode. This is not a reason to avoid difficulty; it is a reason to sequence it carefully.

53:25–1:04:11 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: The Season's Core Lessons

Luke and Nathan distill what the season ultimately taught them, both as practitioners and as storytellers:

• Relationship before narrative. No matter how well-crafted the message, it will not land without a prior relationship of trust. This was the clearest lesson from Rinku Sen, Desmond Meade, and Pardeep Singh Kaleka.
• Narrative change requires discipline, not just talent. The new frame must be practiced and repeated until it becomes the reflexive response, the code card, not a one-time performance.
• Center what has been invisible. The powerful don't need help staying centered in the narrative. The work is to platform the stories, strengths, and humanity of those who have been shrouded by reductive dominant narratives.
• We have to get back in front of each other. The algorithmically siloed, amygdala-inflamed moment we are in demands a return to presence: shared meals, uncomfortable conversations, genuine contact across difference. That is the prerequisite.

1:04:11–1:14:36 – Luke Waldo and Nathan Fink: What Comes Next

Luke closes with gratitude to the season's full cast of contributors: the guests from The Shift at the PCAA conference, the narrative change strategists, the systems thinkers, the community builders, and the truth tellers and lived experience leaders.

He reflects on the season's sound design: the ambient sounds of spring and subtle instrumentation were chosen deliberately to till the soil and create the internal conditions in listeners for openness before the harder conversations began.

Nathan closes with an invitation: don't let the season end here. Circulate it. Use it with your teams, partners, and communities. The podcast is not the destination. The relationships and practices it points toward are.

Luke: "Let this be the beginning." Reach out to Luke at lwaldo@childrenswi.org for supportive materials to continue reflection and learning.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
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Host: Luke Waldo

Co-Pilot / Guest: Jessica Moyer – FrameWorks Institute

Clip Speakers:

• Prudence Beidler Carr - American Bar Association's Center on Children and the Law
• Claudia Rowe – Author of Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care
• Valerie Frost - National Lived Expert
• Rinku Sen - Narrative Initiative
• Dr. Pegah Faed - Safe and Sound
• Pardeep Singh Kaleka - Mental Health America of Wisconsin
• Tshaka Barrows - Haywood Burns Institute
• Tarik Moody - Radio Milwaukee & HYFIN
• Jared Robinson - RALLY
• Kim Dvorchak – National Association of Counsel for Children

00:07–03:15 – Luke Waldo – Setting the Stage: From Harmful Narratives to Action

Luke reflects on the season’s central question: "What stories shape how we see the world, and how can we tell them differently?". He recaps the season's exploration of "monster frames," the "surveillance vs. support" dichotomy, and the "invisible architecture" of narratives that shape systems. He introduces the shift for this finale: moving from diagnosis to action and chart a path forward for narrative change .

03:15–05:27 – Jessica Moyer – Framing as an Ambitious Endeavor

Jessica Moyer returns to serve as "co-pilot," framing narrative change as a decade-long strategy rather than a quick fix. She emphasizes that the goal is moving toward a space of hope and innovation, even amidst deep social polarization and mistrust of institutions.

05:27–12:04 – Jessica Moyer – “Humans Winning”: Countering Fatalism through Reframing

Jess explains why stories about "humans winning" are essential.

• Combating Stereotypes: "If we're talking about humans winning from the get-go, we're seeing people as the agents for positive change, and that counters fatalistic thinking".
• The Poverty vs. Revitalization Shift: Jess shares a Frameworks example where focusing on "poverty" triggered toxic racialized mindsets. By shifting the focus to "neighborhood revitalization," they were able to talk about the same challenges while building public will for solutions like investment in third spaces and communal safety.

13:42–18:16 – Jessica Moyer – Framing as Art and Science

Luke asks how storytelling ensures that data isn't lost but delivered effectively.

• The Interpretation Risk: Jess notes that "evidence always requires interpretation" and "never speaks for itself”.
• Story as North Star: She argues that "as humans, we think in story," and the greatest risk isn't that a story distracts from data, but that "data distracts us from the story".

19:13–21:35 – Jessica Moyer – The Missing Story of Healthy Development

Jess identifies a key dominant mindset: that healthy development is the "natural norm".

• The Problem: Because it’s seen as automatic, when things go wrong, we look for individuals to blame.
• The Solution: The "missing story" is the immense work, resources, and policy support required to sustain that healthy development, which often remains invisible to the public .

22:17–25:22 – Jessica Moyer – Lessons from Tobacco: From Vice to Defective Product

Jess provides a classic example of successful narrative shift: tobacco.

• By reframing tobacco use from an individual "vice" to the industry selling a "defective product," advocates were able to shift the focus toward policy changes (like smoke-free public spaces) rather than individual stigma.

25:22–31:13 – The Evolution of Worthiness: From Support to Surveillance

Luke and Jess examine how the framing of public assistance has shifted over time, using an example from Prudence Beidler Carr of the ABA Center on Children and the Law.

• The "Badge of Honor": In the early 20th century, receiving public assistance was often framed as a "badge of honor", proof that a parent was "worthy" of community support .
• The Racialized Shift: This narrative later shifted to focus on "unfitness," particularly as schools integrated. Financial struggle was increasingly conflated with parental neglect, moving the system from support toward surveillance.
• Strategic Order and Emphasis: Jess suggests that effective advocacy requires starting with a vision (what we want) rather than the problem (what we want to defeat). She emphasizes providing the same level of visceral specificity for solutions that we typically provide for systemic harms.

31:13–43:20 – Filling the Blanks: Navigating the “System is Rigged” Narrative

Luke explores the "system is rigged" mindset, which FrameWorks Institute research shows is widely held across the political spectrum .

• The Risk of Misinterpretation: Jess warns that leaving the "rigged" narrative open-ended allows for toxic interpretations. Communicators must be explicit about how the system is rigged (e.g., policies that privilege white, single-family home structures) to ensure the solution targets the root cause.
• Polarization vs. Complexity: Luke addresses the dilemma of the "attention-based economy," where slogans like "defund child welfare" can overshadow the complex reality that while some children require CPS intervention, many families are simply suffering from the "fault" of living in poverty.

45:44–49:12 – Collective Efficacy: Proving That Change is Possible

Jess highlights the importance of "Collective Efficacy", the belief that the public can actually change systems.

• The Sugar Tax Success: She shares an example of a community where members organized to ensure sugar tax revenues were redirected toward making healthy food more affordable .
• The Eviction "Pray-In": Jess describes a community "pray-in" that successfully stopped an eviction by a wealthy developer. The action didn't just save one family's home; it sparked a wider conversation about tenants' rights and systemic exploitation.

51:38–1:05:29 – Productive vs. Toxic Mindsets

Jess and Luke discuss how to diagnose the cultural "mindsets" at play.

• Tapping Into Fear: Jess contrasts positive social change with narratives that tap into fear (e.g., pandemic-era stories of "invisible" child abuse). She notes that fear-based narratives often lead to increased surveillance rather than the long-term engagement needed for system transformation.
• Tilling for New Growth: Luke references the Casey Family Programs network and the collaborative work of communications professionals like Jared Robinson from Rally to push back against harmful stereotypes and "fill in the blanks" with stories of human resilience .

1:05:29 – Luke Waldo – Closing Thoughts: Tilling the Soil for Well-being

Luke synthesizes the shift from a "protective, suspicion-based narrative" of child abuse to a "proactive, constructive narrative" of family well-being. He concludes the season with the metaphor of "tilling the soil", creating the conditions for new ways of thinking and collective action to grow .

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in order of appearance):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guests:

• Shary Tran - Co-founder of ElevAsian and Vice President of Belonging and Workforce Development at Children's Wisconsin
• Tori Brasher-Weathers - Lead for Mission in Common at the Institute for Family
• Valerie Frost – National Lived Expert and Systems Change Leader

00:14–04:28 – Luke Waldo: The Pathways to Transformation

Luke reflects on the lessons from previous episodes regarding authentic relationships and disrupting "monster narratives”. He introduces a three-pronged framework for system transformation: Seeing (making the invisible visible), Feeling (building empathy), and Speaking Truth (transforming discomfort into change). He frames the episode’s focus on three voices - Shary Tran, Tori Brasher Weathers, and Valerie Frost - who illuminate these pathways through their unique lived and professional experiences.

04:28–11:37 – Shary Tran: Representation and the Feeling of Belonging

Shary Tran describes the origins of ElevAsian, born from the isolation of being one of only a few Asian Americans in community decision-making spaces. She discusses the "skills" of navigation and adaptation that many people of color develop to fit into spaces not designed for them.

• Persistent Tropes: Shary identifies three narratives that "other" the Asian American community: the Model Minority Myth, the "Yellow Peril" threat, and the Perpetual Foreigner trope.
• Strategy: ElevAsian uses education and mental health awareness to destigmatize asking for help and to challenge damaging characterizations.
• Concept to Apply: Shary distinguishes between inclusion and belonging: "Inclusion is the physical act of inviting somebody, but belonging is the feeling you get when you're there that matters and that you truly feel welcome".

11:37–19:34 – Tori Brasher Weathers: The Formula for Empathy

Tori discusses Mission in Common, an initiative grounded in the belief that "connection leads to empathy, empathy leads to alignment, and alignment leads to lasting change”. She explains how to bridge the gap between decision-makers and families through the power of story.

• Storytelling as Neuroscience: Referencing StoryCorps and a clip from episode 7 with Dr. Uri Hasson on neural coupling, Tori highlights that while statistics inform, stories transform because our brains are wired for narrative rather than spreadsheets.
• Listening to Understand: Tori emphasizes approaching others with curiosity rather than judgment, resisting the urge to center one's own story when listening to another's.
• Principle: "Listen to understand, not listen to respond". Empathy requires leaning into discomfort and being present with someone else's truth.

19:34–32:01 – Valerie Frost: Truth Telling as Legitimate Authority

Luke bridges Valerie’s work to the lessons of Pardeep Singh Kaleka from Episode 12, noting that transformation requires the courage to "lovingly make people uncomfortable". Valerie describes her role as a "truth teller," using her story as an immutable tool for change.

• Internal System Dissent: Valerie shares that "system people" often message her privately, confessing they feel stuck or "frozen" by the very structures they work within. Her truth-telling gives these professionals the "permission" to question the status quo from the inside.
• The Biological Resistance of Systems: Luke introduces a clip from episode 3 with Dr. Bruce Perry, who explains that social systems are programmed for self-preservation. This explains why systems often prioritize stability over the radical changes needed to better serve families.
• The Railroad Tracks Analogy: Tshaka Barrows of the W. Haywood Burns Institute appears to explain institutional momentum. He notes that systems are like railroad tracks built on a history of specific intentions. Simply changing the "conductors" (the people) doesn't change the destination; transformation requires building entirely new tracks.
• Synthesis of the Three Paths: Luke connects the episode’s three core voices: Shary Tran provides the "Visibility" (Seeing), Tori Brasher Weathers provides the "Empathy" (Feeling), and Valerie Frost provides the "Truth" (Hearing). Together, these form a single system of transformation.

32:01–36:46 – Luke Waldo: Synthesis and Practical Wisdom

Luke synthesizes the practical advice from his guests: Shary’s call for cultural humility, Tori’s commitment to "leaving people with a feeling," and Valerie’s reminder that permission to speak truth comes from within.

• Recapping the Season: Luke references the "Changing the Narrative" network, acknowledging partners like Kim Dvorchak of the National Association of Counsel for Children (NACC), Jared Robinson from the communications agency Rally, Tarik Moody of Radio Milwaukee and HYFIN, Prudence Beidler Carr of the ABA Center on Children and the Law, and investigative journalist Claudia Rowe.
• Looking Ahead: Episode 14 will feature Jess Moyer from the FrameWorks Institute to synthesize the season's patterns of narrative change.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guest:

Pardeep Singh Kaleka, clinical director at Mental Health America of Wisconsin, senior anti-hate advocate, and co-author of The Gift of Our Wounds. On August 5, 2012, a white supremacist murdered seven people at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek, including Pardeep's father. Pardeep's TEDx talk, "Monster", delivered at UW-Milwaukee in 2015, challenged the narrative of the isolated, evil perpetrator. He later co-authored his book with Arno Michaelis, a former white supremacist, whose friendship became a living example of narrative disruption.

00:14–04:07 – Luke Waldo

Luke opens from where Episode 11 ended: the responsibility of media to report with context rather than crisis. He sharpens the question for this episode: what happens when you are living inside the story, when the headlines are about your father's murder, your community's trauma, your faith being erased? He introduces Pardeep Singh Kaleka and frames the episode's central themes: how to challenge narratives that erase communities, how to refuse the monster frame without excusing harm, and how to create genuine human contact across difference in an algorithmically siloed world.

04:07–09:43 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: August 5, 2012, and the Dominant Narrative That Followed

Pardeep describes the shooting: a white supremacist affiliated with the Hammerskins gang entered the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin on a Sunday morning in August 2012 and murdered seven people, including his father, the temple president. It was the deadliest hate crime in a house of worship in nearly 50 years.

The dominant narrative that emerged was immediate and, he argues, dangerous: an isolated act committed by an evil man. Pardeep names two harms in that framing. First, it gave society an excuse by treating the violence as random, requiring no systemic explanation. Second, it placed his community in the backdrop of its own tragedy. The perpetrator became the main character; the Sikh community, the victims of the deadliest act of white supremacist terror in generations, became a secondary narrative presence. People got to know the community as victims, not as people who had been there all along.

• Trauma research connection: Pardeep notes that how harm is framed matters to survivors. When harm is framed as random or individual, survivors lose the ability to make meaning from it, which worsens long-term PTSD and moral injury.

13:53–20:10 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: The "Monster" TEDx Talk

Three years after the shooting, Pardeep delivered his TEDx talk titled "Monster" at UW-Milwaukee. He describes the core challenge he was sitting with: if he accepted that the shooter was simply a monster, violence had no roots, and therefore healing had no path. Calling someone a monster does two things simultaneously: it dehumanizes them (which may feel deserved), and it gives society permission to stop asking how he was created. The narrative of the monster says: we can lock him away, reject him, throw him out. It does not ask: how did a child become this? What systems, conditions, and ideologies were present? Is there a Wade Page in every community?

Pardeep describes the audience's response as deliberate discomfort. He wanted people to feel unsettled by the narrative they had accepted, not because discomfort is the goal, but because lovingly making people uncomfortable is how narrative reality changes. And he wanted people to stop asking "Why are there bad people?" and start asking "How do we prevent people from becoming like this?" He describes seeing that shift in people around him over time as evidence of growth.

• Watch: Pardeep's TEDx talk "Monster" (2015) at ted.com. Also recommended: the 36-minute PBS documentary Waking in Oak Creek, which Pardeep uses for community dialogue.

30:40–39:48 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: The Gift of Our Wounds and Intergroup Contact

Three months after the shooting, Pardeep reached out to Arno Michaelis, a founding member of the Hammerskins, the same gang to which the Oak Creek shooter was affiliated. He had questions the shooter could no longer answer, and he believed Arno could help him understand the ideology and the path that led there.

Their friendship grew over years into a genuine relationship: Arno is known as "Uncle Arno" to Pardeep's children; Pardeep knows Arno's parents and brother. They co-authored The Gift of Our Wounds in 2018. Their partnership was, Pardeep notes, never frictionless. They are both strong-willed, they disagree, and they came from entirely different lives. What made it powerful was precisely that: they were real, unscripted, and speaking from the heart. "When hearts speak, hearts listen."

Research on intergroup contact, showing that meaningful relationships across difference are among the strongest evidence-based methods for reducing prejudice, validates what Pardeep and Arno were living. Their most effective strategy was not arguing about who was right, but choosing to be present and to try to understand where the other person was coming from.

• Concept to explore: Intergroup contact theory, which holds that direct, meaningful contact between members of different groups, under certain conditions, is one of the most effective evidence-based approaches for reducing prejudice and shifting mental models.

41:18–49:53 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: Narrative Disruption in Practice

Pardeep shares a concrete example from a small Massachusetts town navigating demographic change and community conflict between "growth" and "preservation" factions. Two Hindu temples had recently been established; yard signs and public symbols were flashpoints. His intervention was practical and disarming: he suggested the town hold its next local election at one of the new Hindu temples. The act of using the temple as a civic venue would require community members to physically enter the space and encounter their neighbors as participants in the same democratic process, not as foreign arrivals.

He names the broader pattern: demographic anxiety and demographic shift anxiety are not unique to one place. They recur across communities, and they can either be weaponized to split people apart or galvanized to build connection. His principle, drawn from Sikhism, is that two things can be true and valued at the same time: welcome and preservation are not a zero-sum choice.

49:53–1:03:34 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: Narratively Trapped and the Path Forward

Pardeep offers a diagnosis of the current moment: we are not just divided, we are narratively trapped. Algorithm-driven outrage feeds us constant confirmation of our existing beliefs. Liberals see feeds of conservatives doing alarming things; conservatives see the same in reverse. The result is a kind of self-righteous certainty that forecloses curiosity. He draws on his clinical work: certainty can itself be a kind of cognitive illness, a rigidity that was once a trauma survival mechanism but now stands in the way of actual healing.

His antidote is not a program or a campaign. It is curiosity, practiced personally and professionally. He stays willing to ask: Why does this narrative land the way it does for me? Why do I feel what I feel toward this person or group? He reframes imposter syndrome as a form of healthy humility, a signal that you are still questioning your own certainty rather than cementing it.

He closes with the frame that gives the episode its title: "We're all just walking each other home anyway, and we're doing the best we can. Give each other grace and compassion. Give yourself some grace." Luke previews Episode 13 with Valerie Frost, Shary Tran, and Tori Brasher Weathers, exploring how belonging is built through lived experience and cultural expression.

• Principle from Sikhism: "I am not good and you are not bad" (and its inverse: "I am not bad and you are not good") as a practice that resists both self-righteousness and self-condemnation, and creates the conditions for genuine understanding.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guests:

• Kim Dvorchak, CEO of the National Association of Counsel for Children
• Jared Robinson, Senior Account Executive at Rally, the communications firm partnering with the Casey Family Programs national network
• Tarik Moody, Director of Innovation and Strategy at Radio Milwaukee, HYFIN and co-host of the podcast By Every Measure
• Claudia Rowe, investigative journalist, member of the Seattle Times editorial board, and National Book Awards finalist for Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care

00:14–02:52 – Luke Waldo

Luke opens in spring 2020: as the pandemic shut down schools and workplaces, a narrative spread through newsrooms that children were unsafe at home, invisible to the mandated reporters who normally would catch signs of abuse. The concern was genuine, but the message it sent was damaging: parents are threats, homes are dangerous, and professional surveillance is the only thing keeping children safe. Luke frames the episode's central question: what happens when child welfare experts, advocates, and people with lived experience decide not to let that narrative stand, and build something new in its place?

02:52–07:39 – Kim Dvorchak and Jared Robinson: The Origins of the Changing the Narrative Network

Kim Dvorchak describes how the network was born: during a Casey Family Programs national partners meeting on Zoom in spring 2020, she typed into the chat offering to co-write an op-ed pushing back on the alarmist pandemic narrative. That single offer sparked an offline conversation that grew into the Changing the Narrative working group, which has been meeting for five years since.

Jared Robinson describes the working group's purpose: not another policy update meeting, but a dedicated space for communications-minded people who understood that changing a narrative requires different skills than writing policy. It requires knowing how stories work, what frames resonate, and which ones backfire. The spirit from the start was collaborative and entrepreneurial: "feeling our way forward" rather than following a prescribed formula. Casey Family Programs brought in Rally to provide communications expertise alongside the partners' subject matter knowledge.

10:11–14:12 – Kim Dvorchak and Jared Robinson: Strategy and Measurable Results

The group made a crucial early decision: don't just have experts and lawyers explain why the dominant narrative is wrong. Bring in lived experience: young people with foster care backgrounds, parents who had navigated the system, pediatricians and other frontline voices. The op-ed and letters-to-the-editor campaign became the primary vehicle, placing counter-narrative content in local, state, and national outlets where the harmful narrative had originally circulated, then amplifying it through partner newsletters and social media.

The results are documented. The network has tracked child welfare media coverage for five years. In 2020, mentions of prevention in child welfare coverage were essentially negligible. By the end of 2024, prevention appeared in approximately 20% of the stories analyzed, a significant shift that is continuing to grow. Coverage increasingly features the lived experience of families rather than just policymakers and agency leaders.

• Data point: Prevention mentions in child welfare media coverage grew from near zero in 2020 to approximately 20% of analyzed stories by end of 2024, a measurable indicator of narrative shift at the media level.

16:42–22:38 – Luke Waldo and Tarik Moody: Solutions Journalism and the Doomed Feeling

Luke shifts from the network's media strategy to the storytellers themselves. Tarik Moody describes Radio Milwaukee's editorial commitment: whenever a story covers something harmful or systemic, always follow it with how that harm is being addressed. Not sometimes; always. His goal with By Every Measure, a podcast on systemic racism in Milwaukee, was to educate without inducing guilt, making a deliberate distinction between systemic cause and individual blame, and structuring each episode so listeners left feeling agency rather than despair.

Luke identifies the psychological mechanism: when people are shown a massive systemic problem with no pathway to address it, they develop learned helplessness. Tarik's formula counters this: show the problem, show people doing something about it, and leave the listener asking "What can I do?" rather than "Are we doomed?" The response to By Every Measure confirmed the approach: listener gratitude, sustained engagement years after release, and requests for another season.

• Concept to apply: Tarik's design goal, that listeners leave feeling "educational, informative, engaging, and hopeful," is a practical framework for any communicator tackling systemic issues: not guilt, not despair, but agency.

22:38–31:02 – Luke Waldo and Claudia Rowe: Why "Why?" Changes Everything

Claudia Rowe represents a different but complementary approach: years-long, deeply reported journalism that refuses simple answers. Luke draws a distinction between two questions journalists can ask. "What happened?" leads to blame: this kid was damaged, this family failed, this system is broken. "Why did this happen?" leads to understanding: what does severing parental bonds do neurologically? What does repeated placement with strangers do to attachment? What does poverty plus trauma plus system intervention create together?

Claudia's work on Wards of the State exemplifies this: she does not deny that foster care causes harm, but she traces the mechanisms of that harm and asks what it would take to do better. She also names the professional challenge directly: simple, sensational stories confirm biases and get clicks. Monster narratives don't require systemic thinking. Looking closer does, and it takes time, trust, and willingness to engage with complexity that frightens or confuses.

• Principle: "Look closer. Especially at the things that frighten or confuse you. You will be less afraid if you understand better." Claudia Rowe's guiding principle for journalism and, by extension, for anyone trying to build understanding across difference.

31:02–38:04 – Luke Waldo

Luke synthesizes the episode as a single system with multiple entry points. Kim and Jared's network changes how journalists tell stories about families by providing messaging support, expert voices, and lived experience to counter harmful narratives as they emerge. Tarik and Claudia are the storytellers doing the work differently, structuring coverage to create agency rather than paralysis, asking "why" rather than just "what", and holding complexity rather than collapsing into simple labels.

He leaves listeners with four questions: How might we resist sensational headlines and seek out complexity? How might we support journalism that takes years to understand an issue deeply? How might we share stories that create agency instead of despair? And when telling our own stories, how might we follow Tarik's formula: show the problem, show the solutions, leave people asking "What can I do?" rather than "Are we doomed?"

He previews Episode 12: Pardeep Singh Kaleka on how he transformed a devastating act of violence against his family and community into a story of compassion and friendship.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guest:

• Dr. Pegah Faed, CEO of Safe and Sound

00:14–04:44 – Luke Waldo

Narrative change without structural change is just conversation, and structural change without narrative change doesn't last. You need both, working together. He traces the origin of today's conversation to Season 2 of the podcast, which explored the troubling reality that around 87% of families reported to CPS for neglect are unsubstantiated. That episode sparked outreach from Safe and Sound in San Francisco, who had been operationalizing many of the same ideas. Luke frames the conversation as a real-world case study: how one community-based organization used a 2022 issue brief to drive narrative change that rippled into statewide policy.

04:44–07:42 – Dr. Pegah Faed: Safe and Sound's Three-Pronged Model

Dr. Faed describes Safe and Sound's three integrated areas of work:

• Direct service: A Family Resource Center providing diapers, food, hygiene supplies, parenting classes, play groups, mental health support, care coordination, and a 24/7 warm line for parents and caregivers in crisis, all in a judgment-free space.
• Community building: Training teachers, medical providers, and other mandated reporters to recognize family trauma, stress, and overload and respond with support rather than a report.
• Systems change: Working across sectors to shift San Francisco and California toward a system centered on community support rather than mandated reporting.

07:42–13:04 – Dr. Pegah Faed: Narrative Change as Systems Strategy

Safe and Sound made narrative change central to their systems work: you cannot transform a system if you don't first transform the story the system is built upon. Their 2022 issue brief, Creating a Child and Family Well-Being System, was not primarily a policy document. It was a deliberate reframe of how society understands family stress and safety.

The core argument: mandated reporting is structured around a low threshold of "reasonable suspicion" that criminalizes not reporting. Because neglect is broadly defined and often tied to poverty, this casts an extremely wide net, capturing families whose challenges reflect their living conditions, not their caregiving. The reframe she proposes: the first question when a child's environment is concerning should be, is there truly substantial risk for harm? If yes, CPS is essential. If no, the question becomes, how can we support this child within their caregiving system?

The results have been tangible: practitioners who have absorbed the new language now say "this family is unsupported" instead of "this family is neglectful." The question for mandated reporters has shifted from "should I report?" to "how can I support?" And policymakers who understand that poverty-linked reports make up the vast majority of hotline calls now legislate differently.

• Resource: Safe and Sound publishes the Economics of Child Abuse report annually, breaking down CPS data interactively by county across California. It has consistently shown that approximately 87% of calls are not substantiated.

13:04–24:53 – Luke Waldo and Dr. Pegah Faed: The Ecosystem of Support

Shifting the mental model of mandated reporters is necessary but not sufficient. Overloaded teachers and nurses who want to support a family still need somewhere to refer them. Dr. Faed describes what Safe and Sound is piloting in San Francisco: the Strong Families Partnership, in which the CPS hotline becomes a triage point. When a call comes in and screeners determine a family needs support rather than investigation, there is now a community pathway, routing the family to Safe and Sound and partner nonprofits rather than opening an investigation.

The shift in framing also changed who gets invited to the table. Instead of risk-management partners (lawyers, law enforcement), Safe and Sound began convening public health organizations, housing agencies, and early childhood programs, all of whom see themselves as supporting family thriving rather than managing child welfare risk. During COVID, this crystallized into a Family Services Alliance of 26 organizations; it has since grown to over 40. That alliance is now the infrastructure for the community pathway.

On the policy side, the California statewide task force that emerged from Safe and Sound's brief has produced recommendations now shaping state policy, including California AB 2085, which narrowed the definition of general neglect and shifted expectations for mandated reporters.

28:51–33:37 – Dr. Pegah Faed: Poverty as Condition, Not Character

Dr. Faed articulates Safe and Sound's foundational reframe around poverty: it is a condition, an external set of constraints, not a parenting deficit or moral failure. This starting point changes everything about program design. Care coordinators work from family strengths, helping families identify their own goals and the steps to reach them, rather than diagnosing deficits. Advocacy work challenges the implicit bias that links poverty to poor parenting, naming neglect as a symptom of stress, isolation, and resource scarcity.

The reframe also shifts the public question from "what's wrong with this parent?" to "what does this family need, and why isn't our system providing it?"

35:29–41:50 – Dr. Pegah Faed: Striking the Balance and Leading the Transformation

Dr. Faed addresses the tension in this work directly: the goal is not to weaken child protection, but to right-size it so CPS can focus on actual safety threats while a broader web of community-based organizations catches families earlier and more effectively. CPS was never designed to solve poverty, heal parental stress, build community connections, and provide material support simultaneously. The vision is not dismantling child protection but surrounding it with the ecosystem it never had.

She describes the four pillars guiding Safe and Sound's transformation, drawn from her letter to the organization at the opening of their strategic plan:

• Humility: Communities already hold wisdom about what they need. Safe and Sound's job is to listen deeply and let families and neighborhoods guide the work.
• Urgency: Families are struggling now, in systems not designed for today's conditions. Every day requires asking: what can we build right now, who can we support today?
• Collaboration: The challenges families face are bigger than any single organization. Safe and Sound's goal is to be a connector and catalyst, a place where partners build solutions none of them could build alone.
• Hope: Not naive optimism, but hope grounded in progress already made: the narrative shift, the task force, the policy changes, and families who come through the door and leave better off.

46:05–50:16 – Dr. Pegah Faed: Lessons Learned

Dr. Faed offers five distilled lessons from Safe and Sound's narrative change journey:

• Narrative change is a daily practice, not a campaign launch.
• It must be co-created.
• Narrative change unlocks behavior change.
• It requires patience and persistence.
• Narrative change must be matched with structural change.

50:16–54:07 – Luke Waldo

Luke synthesizes the episode and opens the next question: if families need a different story told about them, who tells it to the public? If 87% of neglect reports are unsubstantiated but headlines never say so, how does the public narrative shift? He previews Episode 11: a conversation with Kim Dvorchak and Jared Robinson on how a national narrative change network has influenced media coverage, and with Tarik Moody on how Radio Milwaukee's solutions journalism and community storytelling are shifting the narrative locally.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guests:

• Emerald Mills Williams, founder of Diverse Dining and the Diverse Dining Market, Milwaukee
• Prudence Beidler Carr, Director, ABA Center on Children and the Law (clip from Episode 4)
• Shary Tran, co-founder of ElevAsian and VP of Belonging and Workforce Development, Children's Wisconsin
• Rinku Sen, executive director of the Narrative Initiative
• Megan McGee, executive director of Ex Fabula (clip from Episode 7)
• Tarik Moody, Director of Innovation and Strategy at Radio Milwaukee and creator of HYFIN

00:14–02:36 – Luke Waldo

Luke opens the episode by shifting from diagnosis to practice. After a season of examining how harmful narratives are built and entrenched, this episode turns to people who are already dismantling them, through shared meals, cultural celebration, music, and art. The question is no longer how did we get here, but what are people doing right now, and what can we learn from them?

02:36–05:22 – Emerald Mills Williams

Emerald traces the origin of Diverse Dining to a personal frustration: nearly 20 years working in public health and watching the needle fail to move in one of the most racially segregated cities in the United States. Her theory was direct: Milwaukee's public health crisis was inseparable from its inability to gather across difference. She tested the concept at her own birthday party, inviting friends to a Vietnamese restaurant, learning the owner's story, preparing icebreakers, and building in facilitated conversation. Diverse Dining was born.

05:22–08:39 – Luke Waldo, Shary Tran, and Emerald Mills Williams

Shary Tran describes the "lunchbox moment" familiar to many Asian Americans: the childhood anxiety of opening a culturally distinct lunch at school, fearing ridicule. It's a small story that carries a large weight, the internalized pressure to hide cultural identity to avoid shame. She notes a generational shift in appreciation for cultural foods and describes ElevAsian's "restaurant invasions," organized visits to Asian-owned businesses that pair exposure to new cuisines with direct connection to the people who make them. Emerald adds that food reliably draws people across geographic and psychological barriers they would not otherwise cross, including into neighborhoods they might otherwise avoid.

08:39–15:46 – Luke Waldo, Emerald Mills Williams, and Rinku Sen

Emerald shares her benchmark for a successful Diverse Dining event: at least one person in the room is moved to tears, not from hurt, but from the experience of being fully heard and understood. Luke connects this to the neuroscience from Episode 7: neural coupling, the brain synchronization that occurs when people share stories. Shared meals create the physical conditions for that synchronization.

Rinku Sen expands the argument: food and art are not optional supports for organizing, they are what sustain life. Bodies are drawn to them because, at a deep level, they know these experiences will prolong life and increase connection. Physical experiences of communion, shared laughter, collective wonder, embed themselves in the body and make isolation and hate harder to tolerate.

Emerald then names a quieter loss: the erosion of Sunday dinner. When her grandmother was alive, differences in the family didn't matter at the table. Everyone came. The grandmother ensured it. That infrastructure of connection, of showing up even when frustrated, of practicing the muscle of staying at the table, has largely disappeared. And with it, so has the intergenerational passage of stories, recipes, and wisdom.

16:23–22:33 – Luke Waldo, Shary Tran, and Tarik Moody

Shary introduces the annual STAATUS Index study from the Asian American Fund, which surveys approximately 2,500 people on their perceptions of Asian Americans. An overwhelming number report that television and film are their primary sources of information about the community. Accurate, complex, protagonist-centered representation is not a cultural nicety; it is where most Americans form their mental models of entire communities.

Tarik Moody describes building HYFIN, a Milwaukee radio platform dedicated to Black culture through the lens of Afrofuturism. Drawing on the legacy of Black newspapers like the Chicago Defender, he set out to create a new platform that would capture the full breadth of Black music and culture, hip hop, R&B, jazz, Black artists doing rock, none of it siloed or stereotyped. Storytelling is the DNA that carries through every product.

Luke highlights a specific example: Tarik's Brown, Black and Brews event, which honored Theodore Mack, the founder of Milwaukee's first Black-owned home brewery, People's Beer, a name and legacy largely erased from the city's beer identity. By placing Black entrepreneurs back into Milwaukee's beer story, Tarik gives others a story they can see themselves in, because they have always been part of it.

20:16–27:49 – Luke Waldo, Emerald Mills Williams, Shary Tran, Tarik Moody, and Rinku Sen

The episode's central argument crystallizes: cultural celebration must lead to investment. Representation without economic support is incomplete. Emerald cites the statistic that 85% of all restaurants close in their first five years, with minority-owned small businesses facing additional compounding barriers. Her Diverse Dining Market was built deliberately to provide those businesses with the support, resources, and connections to survive and grow.

Shary articulates the standard for belonging that runs through the episode: belonging is not fitting in, it's feeling safe when you stand out. ElevAsian's tagline, "unapologetically Asian," is a direct challenge to the model minority myth, which offered conditional tolerance in exchange for staying quiet and small. That is not belonging; it's suppression.

Emerald closes this thread with a foundational conviction: underneath all difference, there is one humanity. Her analogy is disarming: if a bomb dropped in her neighborhood, no yard sign would stop her from helping her neighbor. That core of shared humanity is real, and it requires active effort to protect.

27:49–33:06 – Luke Waldo, Shary Tran, Emerald Mills Williams, and Rinku Sen

The episode closes with a call to action from each guest. Emerald's challenge: don't just let this be a podcast that made you feel good. Decide on a course of action and move on it. It doesn't have to be founding a Diverse Dining, it could be committing to bring three friends to new restaurants for the rest of the year. Shary's recommendation: start with one restaurant outside your comfort zone, talk to the person working there, and let that be the beginning. Rinku's reminder: smart organizers have always made food central to their work and their lives.

Luke synthesizes the episode's core argument: connection is not the reward for narrative change; it is the prerequisite. You cannot change someone's narrative about who deserves care if you have never cared for them. You cannot shift their mental model about who belongs if you have never created a space for them to belong.

He leaves listeners with four questions to sit with: What relationships am I building across lines I usually don't cross? What am I doing with my body, not just my mind, to practice connection? What infrastructure of belonging am I helping to build? And: What dominant narrative lives in me that can only be changed through relationship with someone I haven't met yet?

He previews Episode 10: a conversation with Dr. Pegah Faed, CEO of Safe and Sound, on moving California from mandated reporting to community supporting.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guest:

• Rinku Sen, writer, social justice strategist, and executive director of the Narrative Initiative. Former executive director of Race Forward and publisher of Colorlines. Author of Stir It Up and The Accidental American, and contributing author to Liberation Stories. Architect of the Shattered Families report and the Drop the I-Word campaign.

00:14–04:00 – Luke Waldo

Building on Episode 7's exploration of storytelling science, Luke opens with a longer view: we are not the first people to face entrenched, harmful narratives. What can we learn from abolitionists who reframed enslavement as a moral crisis? From labor organizers who shifted "individual failure" to "collective exploitation"? From the civil rights movement that transformed "separate but equal" into a demand for dignity? Today's conversation turns to history as a teacher, and to Rinku Sen as its guide.

04:00–06:43 – Rinku Sen

Rinku grounds her work in a lesson from her first organizing mentor, Gary Delgado: to make real change, you need three things, organized people, organized money, and organized ideas. Narrative strategy is where we organize our ideas. It lifts up values, names causes, and imagines possibilities. She frames the Narrative Initiative's use of the word "narrative" precisely: not just stories, but a worldview, a perspective, the moral of the story. Social movements are the means through which everyone contributes to that moral, and narrative is how marginalized people speak for themselves and enable others to see them clearly.

08:06–13:25 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: Shattered Families

Rinku distinguishes between strategic communications (targeted messages built around a specific policy goal, typically with a 6-12 month timeline) and the longer work of narrative change (shifting the underlying values and mental models that make certain solutions feel possible or impossible). Shattered Families was strategic communications: a 2011 investigative report from Race Forward and Colorlines that quantified how many children in the U.S. child welfare system had a parent who had been deported, a population effectively invisible in immigration debates.

• Key distinction: Strategic communications works within existing values on a short timeline; narrative change works to shift the values themselves over a longer arc. Both are necessary, and each informs the other.

14:27–21:25 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: Drop the I-Word

The Drop the I-Word campaign targeted the dehumanizing use of "illegal immigrant" and "illegals" in journalism. The primary target was the Associated Press, whose style guide sets usage standards for thousands of outlets worldwide. The campaign's main story intervention was first-person "I am" narratives from undocumented immigrants themselves, elevating everyday voices into a debate previously dominated by lawyers, politicians, and law enforcement. In 2013, the AP changed its style guide, and thousands of outlets changed their language overnight.

• Organizing principle: Identify the biggest domino. The AP's stylebook change created a cascade across the entire media ecosystem, demonstrating how a single well-chosen target can produce disproportionate impact.

21:25–25:28 – Rinku Sen: Four Things Movements Do

Drawing on her study of historical social justice movements, Rinku identifies four things every effective movement has done with its narrative power:

• Recruit a constituency. Identify who has stakes, build shared identity, and tell stories that activate people into action.
• Polarize choices. Movements cannot meet polarizing narratives with entirely non-polarizing ones. Are we about enslavement or freedom? Just you, or all of us? The right set of choices must be made clear.
• Change the characters. Recast who belongs in the story, who the protagonist is, and who the villain is.
• Redistribute discursive power. Shift who gets attention, who gets to read and write, who gets to speak, and where, often across generations.

Her concrete example: the decades-long shift on domestic violence.

26:28–35:22 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: Lessons for Today's Polarized Landscape

Rinku draws four lessons from historical movements for today's information-saturated environment:

• Relationship before message.
• Every rebuttal repeats the lie.
• Focus on solution and hope, not the problem.
• Use caution with historical frames.

35:22–42:08 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: Framing as Issue Development

Rinku describes framing as a process of finding the right entry point for an audience depending on how far they are from your way of thinking. She draws on the concept of issue development from organizing: carving out a specific, winnable piece of a large problem, building a constituency around it, and proposing a concrete change. Frames need to feel organic. If "poverty is not the same as neglect" isn't landing, you try different angles, iterate, and move on.

She also insists that long-term narrative work still requires real-time action. Shattered Families introduced families as new characters into a debate previously owned by lawyers and politicians, and that opened the door to the next campaign. Short-term benchmarks still matter, even in work measured in years.

42:08–52:02 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: Food, Art, and Cultural Expression

Rinku argues that food and art are not soft additions to organizing work; they are essential. Food engages all the senses, sustains life, and prolongs it, both physically and socially. Art makes the ingenuity and creativity of human beings visible to each other. Shared experiences of laughter, wonder, and pleasure embed themselves in our bodies and make isolation and hate harder to tolerate.

• Principle to apply: Smart organizers make food central to their work and community life. Communion experienced through the body, not just thought about, embeds belonging and makes collective action possible.

52:02–59:01 – Luke Waldo & Rinku Sen: The Great Unfriending and What Comes Next

Rinku identifies what she calls the "great unfriending" after 2016 as one of the defining narrative challenges of the current moment: the mass withdrawal of people from cross-partisan relationships, a reflex of isolation that directly weakens movements built on love, collectivity, and freedom. She sees a countertrend emerging since the pandemic: the reentry of mutual aid, community art, and community building as central practices of social action, not afterthoughts.

Her practical recommendations: find opportunities to eat together with people unlike you (noting the U.S. semi-quincentennial in 2026 will create many such occasions), pay attention to organizations like More Perfect Union that build power through journalism and labor organizing, and treat the absence of yard signs in your neighborhood not as apathy, but as an invitation to knock on the door.

She closes with a parting instruction: pay attention to the stories in your own life. Keep your ears open.

59:01–1:02:05 – Luke Waldo

Luke synthesizes Rinku's four lessons from historical movements and her challenge to the current moment: isolation doesn't help movements built around love, collectivity, and freedom. Our greatest resource is conversation between people, and we must activate it thoughtfully, rigorously, and joyfully. He previews Episode 9: a turn toward culture, art, music, and food with Tarik Moody, Emerald Mills Williams, Shary Tran, and Megan McGee, exploring how shared creative experience builds the relationships that make narrative change possible.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guests:

• Megan McGee - Ex Fabula
• Jessica Moyer - FrameWorks Institute
• Tarik Moody - Radio Milwaukee
• Rinku Sen - Narrative Initiative

00:14–02:10 – Luke Waldo

Luke opens the second narrative arc of the season with its central question: Do stories actually work? He frames the stakes: if we're asking people to challenge narratives they've held their entire lives, we need to show that storytelling produces measurable, systemic change, not just emotional resonance. Today's episode gets into the mechanics: the neuroscience, the evidence, and the real-world results.

02:10–05:52 – Megan McGee and Dr. Uri Hasson

Megan introduces the research of Dr. Uri Hasson at Princeton on neural coupling: what happens inside listeners' brains when someone tells a story. In his study, a graduate student named Lauren told an unscripted 15-minute story about her high school prom (two suitors, a fistfight, a car accident) while inside an MRI scanner. Twelve other participants were then scanned while listening to a recording of the same story.

The finding: all listeners showed remarkably similar brain activity to each other, and their brain patterns closely mirrored Lauren's, even though she was speaking and they were listening. More strikingly, some listeners' brain waves preceded Lauren's words, meaning they were actively predicting what she would say next. The more closely a listener's brain synchronized with Lauren's, the more accurately they could summarize the story afterward.

05:52–10:59 – Megan McGee and Dr. Paul Zak

Megan turns to Dr. Paul Zak’s research on the hormonal mechanics of storytelling. Zak's team showed participants two versions of the same video: a father describing his experience spending time with his young son, Ben, who has terminal brain cancer, and a control version of the same father and son without any mention of illness. In the emotionally engaged version, blood samples revealed two key hormones:

• Cortisol, the stress hormone, spiked in response to the story's conflict and tension, focusing the listener's attention.
• Oxytocin, the bonding hormone associated with trust, safety, and connection, rose as empathy deepened.

Together, Zak found, these two hormones drive prosocial behavior: people who experienced both were more likely to take action after watching the video. Cortisol creates attention; oxytocin creates motivation. Stories that combine conflict and connection move people not just emotionally, but behaviorally.

10:59–14:05 – Luke Waldo and Jessica Moyer

Luke transitions to practice: how does this science translate into strategy for narrative change? Jess Moyer shares a FrameWorks project on concentrated urban poverty and neighborhood revitalization. The key discovery: the most productive frame was not poverty at all. Shifting the focus from the problem (poverty) to the solution (revitalization) changed everything: who the story was about, what the tension was, and what the resolution could look like. The community became the protagonist. Disinvestment became the conflict. Collective action became the resolution.

Luke draws out the neuroscience connection: starting with deficit activates cortisol without a pathway to oxytocin. You get alarm, but not connection. Starting with possibility gives listeners a protagonist to root for and a conflict that feels solvable.

14:05–19:08 – Luke Waldo and Tarik Moody

Tarik Moody faced a parallel challenge in creating By Every Measure, a podcast series about systemic racism in Milwaukee. His goal was to educate without inducing shame or guilt, understanding that listeners who feel blamed will disengage. His methodology: pair historical harm with contemporary solutions. Show the damage the systems caused, then show the people working to repair it. Cortisol for attention, oxytocin for hope.

The response confirmed the approach: listeners thanked him, organizations requested follow-up sessions, and years later people still ask whether another season is coming. Tarik's design goal, that listeners leave feeling hopeful rather than "doomed," translated into lasting engagement.

19:08–22:07 – Luke Waldo and Megan McGee

Megan addresses the critical gap between understanding the science and actually gathering the stories: trust. The people whose stories most need to be heard are often the least likely to share them, because they have been burned before, haven't been heard, or simply don't have time.

She describes a program Ex Fabula ran with the Health Griots, Black male prostate cancer survivors trained to tell their stories to encourage other men to get screened. The lesson: organizations often assume a short workshop will produce confident storytellers. What it actually requires is sustained trust-building, practice, and respect for each person's choice about what to share and when. Forcing someone to tell a vulnerable story at a conference is not elevating a voice; it's extracting one.

22:07–25:49 – Luke Waldo and Rinku Sen

Rinku Sen identifies the foundational principle beneath all narrative change work: relationship. You cannot recruit, influence, or even reach people with whom you have no relationship. No amount of carefully crafted messaging overcomes the absence of genuine connection. She warns against "broadcast-first" strategies, waiting for a "words that work" memo and then repeating those words, because they are speaker-first, not audience-first.

She also names a critical trap: every rebuttal repeats the lie. Fact-checking alone keeps the conversation inside the opposing frame, reinforcing the very narrative you are trying to displace. The alternative is building relationships that create conditions where new stories can land.

25:49–29:47 – Luke Waldo and Rinku Sen

Rinku shares the most concrete evidence in the episode that stories produce systemic change. The project Shattered Families, a strategic communications effort from Race Forward and its news site Colorlines, set out to shift the immigration narrative from law enforcement to family impact. The 2011 report quantified how many children were likely in the child welfare system with their parents in other countries. President Obama responded directly to reporters' questions about the report, pledging new regulations at HHS, ICE, and Border Patrol. A follow-up study found that half of the 400,000 people deported the previous year were parents. The year after the report's release, total deportations fell from 400,000 to 200,000. In California, the report directly drove legislation requiring child welfare departments to actively work with foreign embassies to reunify separated families.

29:47–32:03 – Luke Waldo

Luke synthesizes the episode's answer to its opening question: Do stories really work? Yes. They synchronize brains. They activate cortisol and oxytocin. They reunify families, shift policy, and cut deportations in half. But only when paired with the right strategy: data with dignity, urgency with trust-building, and the willingness to go slow to go fast.

He closes with three principles: start with deficit and you get shame; start with possibility and you get power; start with relationship and you get change. He previews Episode 8: a deeper conversation with Rinku Sen on the history of narrative change in social justice movements.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Guest:

• Claudia Rowe, journalist, member of the Seattle Times editorial board, National Book Awards finalist and author of Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care.

00:14–03:29 – Luke Waldo

Luke sets the stakes for this episode: despite a dominant narrative that the child welfare system exists to protect children, over half of all children who pass through foster care end up in the criminal justice system. He frames the central challenge for journalism: how do we push beyond sensational headlines to connect systemic failures, their real-life impacts, and the solutions that might exist? He introduces Claudia Rowe, whose book explores these questions across 34 years of reporting on the intersections of youth, poverty, and government policy.

03:29–05:57 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia traces the origin of her career to a first editor who sent her to cover public schools in the Bronx in the early 1990s, telling her: "You want to understand people, you've got to look at the beginning." That directive became a lifelong inquiry into motivation, driving her from education into juvenile justice and child welfare. At the center of her work is one foundational question: what is the logic behind behavior that seems self-destructive or baffling to the rest of society?

05:57–10:25 – Luke Waldo and Claudia Rowe

Luke asks Claudia what dominant narratives she has encountered across her career. She identifies fatalism as among the most persistent: the belief that some children are "doomed from birth," damaged beyond reach, incapable of learning or growing. She notes a child welfare researcher communicated exactly this sentiment to her just two weeks before recording. Her reframe is critical: this isn't about the child. It's about a society that has structured sorting systems rather than uplifting ones. Schools, she was told by one educator, are sorting systems.

10:25–15:37 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia identifies two warring narratives within child welfare: "the family is sacrosanct" (keep children with their family of origin at all costs) versus "the family is a disaster" (remove children at the first sign of problems). She points out the selective nature of both: virtually all families in the child welfare system are low-income. Affluent families with neglect and addiction are rarely touched by CPS. The system, she argues, demonizes certain families by economic class and race, not by actual harm.

15:37–21:24 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia addresses the book's central data point: 59% of young people who grow up in foster care will have been locked up by age 26 (juvenile detention, county jail, or state prison), based on the landmark Midwest Evaluation of the Adult Functioning of Former Foster Youth conducted by Chapin Hall. The country spends $31 billion annually on foster care, yet this is the outcome. She walks through four pathways that drive that statistic: running away (leading to shoplifting, trafficking, arrest), violence in group homes, failed adoptions, and aging out at 18 without support. She adds that 50% of foster youth leave high school without a diploma, and many lack the internal resources to envision and plan for a future.

22:05–35:34 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia recounts how she came to write the book: she was sitting in a Seattle courtroom during the sentencing of a teenage girl named Maryanne who had shot and killed a man while on the run from foster care. Over six weeks of continued hearings, Claudia realized this was not a crime story. It was a foster care story. The question that crystallized: is foster care creating future inmates?

Maryanne's path was typical for older foster youth: multiple placements, a failed adoption, eventual group placement. Claudia notes most reporting on foster care focuses on infants and toddlers, almost never on adolescents.

38:29–49:38 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia confronts the "monster" narrative directly, a label she finds opaque and unilluminating. She shares two stories from the book that challenge opposite dominant narratives:

• Monique (Houston): Her story challenges the narrative that removing children earlier guarantees better outcomes.
• Jay (New York City): His story shatters the narrative of the irredeemable child.

Claudia's core message from both stories: connection can happen, even brief connection at the right moment can change everything. And it is never too late.

50:31–55:34 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia addresses why foster care is largely invisible to the public. But the outcomes, homelessness, incarceration, are entirely visible. Her goal in writing the book was to connect those dots: to make the invisible system visible by writing with novelistic depth and suspense, so readers feel it rather than just absorbing statistics.

55:34–1:04:17 – Luke Waldo and Claudia Rowe

Luke asks how practitioners and advocates can effectively engage journalism to shift the narrative. Claudia's response centers on trust and depth.

• Solutions journalism (or more precisely, reporting on "promising responses to social problems") offers a model: deep investigation of what is working, how it works, and all the hurdles along the way, not just the good numbers.
• Kinship care is one such promising response: placing children with relatives or fictive kin (family friends, coaches, teachers) rather than strangers, now supported by government stipends. Claudia notes it is shocking it took this long to be widely embraced.
• Quality Parenting Initiative is another: reimagining foster parents as long-term partners in a child's development, not temporary way stations. Unlike standard practice, QPI envisions ongoing connection between foster parents and children even after placement ends.

1:08:09–1:09:39 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia offers a sweeping reframe of foster care itself: it is currently a holding system, designed to keep children nominally safe until they turn 18 and are released into adulthood without support. What it needs to become is a healing system. Every child in foster care has, by definition, experienced developmental trauma. A smaller, therapeutically reimagined foster care system, not just one that medicates behavior, is the direction Claudia sees as essential.

1:10:10–1:13:45 – Claudia Rowe

Claudia reflects on the status of child welfare and education as beats within journalism. She sees a slow shift, particularly in education. Her argument for editors: readers invest time in stories with depth and detail. Those stories build audience loyalty. And for journalists who care only about dollars and cents: $31 billion spent on foster care is driving even more expensive systems, including incarceration and homelessness interventions. The story pencils out.

1:13:45–1:16:56 – Claudia Rowe

Asked what she has learned about her role in narrative change, Claudia returns to a single principle she has held across every book and every story: look closer. Especially at the things that frighten or confuse us. The label of "monster" or "sociopath" tells her nothing; understanding motivation tells her everything. And the added benefit of looking closer, she says, is that you puncture your own fear. You become less afraid of what you better understand.

1:15:23–1:18:00 – Luke Waldo

Luke synthesizes the episode's challenge: Claudia has delivered a call to action to every reader who encounters a headline about a person in crisis, to every journalist who covers these stories, and to every professional who designs the systems meant to serve families. Her work makes it undeniable that stories told with context and complexity are among the most powerful tools we have to counter the devastating simplicity of dominant narratives. Without those stories, the invisible remains invisible, and the outcomes we all live with every day continue without origin, without explanation, and without remedy.

He previews Episode 7: "Do Stories Really Matter?" a conversation with Jess Moyer, Rinku Sen, Megan McGee, Tarik Moody, and others on the science, art, and measurable impacts of storytelling on narrative change.

Join the conversation and connect with us!

Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.

• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
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How Dominant Narratives Manifest for Individuals, Families, and Communities

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Valerie Frost – National Lived Expert and Systems Change Leader
• Claudia Rowe – Author of Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care
• Prudence Beidler Carr – ABA Center on Children and the Law
• Dr. Pegah Faed – Safe and Sound
• Tori Brasher Weathers – Institute for Family
• Emerald Mills Williams – Diverse Dining & Diverse Dining Market
• Shary Tran – ElevAsian & Children’s Wisconsin

00:00–00:57 – Valerie Frost - "I don't really have anything… everything that I have can be taken from me." She reflects on how systems involvement taught her that narrative is the only thing that cannot be stripped away.

00:57–04:51 – Luke Waldo - Luke recaps the season's arc from exploring what narratives are, to how dominant narratives limit our ability to see families clearly. He introduces this episode's shift from the conceptual to the personal; exploring how these narratives actually manifest in the lives of individuals and communities.

04:51–05:16 – Media Clips - News clips establish the scope of the child welfare system underscoring how systemic the infrastructure of surveillance and intervention is.

05:16–05:53 – Luke Waldo - Luke introduces Valerie Frost.

05:53–07:37 – Valerie Frost - Valerie powerfully contrasts two narratives of her experience: the system's narrative and her own truth. She articulates how dominant narratives are shaped by exclusion and power, not context; and how that power flows directly into how programs, schools, and services are designed.

07:37–08:19 – Luke Waldo - Luke unpacks dominant narratives as not just a story, but a shortcut. He introduces Claudia Rowe.

08:19–08:48 – Claudia Rowe - Claudia shares that virtually all families in the child welfare system are low-income. Affluent families are largely invisible to CPS.

08:48–08:59 – Prudence Beidler Carr - Prudence quotes Joyce McMillan with a piercing truth.

08:59–09:36 – Luke Waldo - Luke connects this to Prudence's argument from the prior episode that the child welfare system was deliberately designed to target and separate certain families. He introduces Dr. Pegah Faed.

09:36–11:12 – Dr. Pegah Faed - Dr. Faed presents the current system where 87% of calls to CPS in California are not substantiated. The framework of mandated reporting was never designed to address unmet family needs; yet it has become an overused doorway.

• Safe and Sound's annual Economics of Child Abuse report

11:12–12:35 – Luke Waldo - Luke notes that Wisconsin's numbers mirror California's. He challenges listeners with an analogy. Would you take a medication that failed you 87% of the time?

12:35–14:12 – Valerie Frost - Valerie describes a telling moment where a school-based family support worker concluded that families didn’t need clothing donations.

14:12–14:48 – Luke Waldo - Luke draws out the key implication where the narrative that overloaded parents are failing parents doesn't just shape how systems see families; it forces professionals who signed up to help into a posture of suspicion.

14:48–15:24 – Tori Brasher Weathers - Tori points to a striking gap in how professionals engage families. The question "What do you need to be well?" is rarely asked.

15:24–16:01 – Luke Waldo - Luke connects this to Tshaka Barrows' metaphor from Episode 3.

16:01–16:57 – Claudia Rowe - Claudia shares a disturbing data point: a child welfare researcher sent her a message suggesting some children are "doomed from birth".

16:57–18:14 – Luke Waldo - Luke names what Claudia's story represents: fatalism, one of the dominant mental models explored this season. He then sets up Valerie's analysis of invisible labor and the Time Tax, introduced by journalist Annie Lowrey.

18:14–18:34 – Media Clips: The Time Tax - Annie Lowrey's concept of the "time tax"; the administrative burden shifted from organizations onto ordinary people.

• The Time Tax by Annie Lowrey

18:34–21:54 – Luke Waldo and Valerie Frost - In one of the episode's most detailed and resonant segments, Valerie walks through the exhausting logistics of survival under poverty.

21:54–22:24 – Luke Waldo - Luke draws out the exposure paradox.

22:24–23:55 – Valerie Frost - Valerie examines risk assessment checklists in child welfare. What if those same flags were reframed as opportunities to build community and expand support?

23:55–24:41 – Luke Waldo - This invisibility and exhaustion is not unique to Kentucky or Valerie's story. He transitions to Milwaukee and introduces Emerald Mills Williams, founder of Diverse Dining.

24:41–25:35 – Emerald Mills Williams - Emerald shares why she left a nearly 20-year career in public health. She traces a root cause: Milwaukee's designation as one of the most segregated cities in the United States. Her theory, that the inability of people to gather across differences and have real conversations was driving poor public health outcomes; led her to found Diverse Dining.

• Milwaukee, Segregation, and the Echo of Welfare Reform – Brookings Institute

26:28–26:49 – Luke Waldo - Luke introduces Shary Tran, co-founder of ElevAsian.

26:49–28:26 – Shary Tran - Shary identifies three persistent harmful narratives that follow the AAPI community:

The Model Minority Myth

The Yellow Peril Trope

The Perpetual Foreigner Trope

28:26–28:55 – Luke Waldo - When we can only see people through the lens of a harmful narrative, we lose the ability to support them or build the communities we say we want.

28:55–29:24 – Valerie Frost - Valerie closes with a reflection on her own impact.

29:24–32:14 – Luke Waldo - Luke summarizes the episode's three central truths:

• Invisibility breeds harm. The time tax of poverty.
• Who tells the story matters as much as the story itself. When systems hold narrative power, those stories are shaped by exclusion and judgment, not context and understanding.
• These narratives don't stay abstract. They become risk assessments, case files, professional assumptions, and community stereotypes.

Luke previews the next episode: a deeper conversation with Claudia Rowe about how media shapes and is shaped by narratives around child welfare, and what happens when journalists become partners in this work.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4

Show Notes: Episode 4

Today's episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

Prudence Beidler Carr — American Bar Association's Center on Children and the Law

Annessa Hartman — Oregon State Representative

Tshaka Barrows — Haywood Burns Institute

Dr. Nadine Burke Harris — ACE Resource Network and Former California Surgeon General

Samantha Mellerson — Haywood Burns Institute

Episode Segments

00:00–04:29 — Luke Waldo

Introduction: What happens when cultural narratives about unfit parents are codified into federal law? Host Luke Waldo introduces Prudence Beidler Carr, Director of the ABA's Center on Children and the Law, to trace the historical arc of the modern child welfare system and her presentation: "How Poverty Became Neglect in Federal Law and Policy: A 1961 Magic Trick".

4:29–6:39 — Prudence Beidler Carr

Overview of the ABA's Center on Children and the Law — a nonprofit within the ABA serving ~300,000 legal professionals with a staff of 20.

6:39–7:00 — Luke Waldo

What inspired Prudence's research and this nationwide presentation?

7:00–10:34 — Prudence Beidler Carr

In summer 2020, the Commission on Youth and Family Justice was examining racial disproportionality in child welfare. Judge Ernestine Gray pushed for substantive research rather than a surface-level statement. Two catalysts: Donna Wilson's finding that very few Black children were in foster care before the 1960s, and Joyce McMillan's quote: "If foster care was a good thing, Black children would only get in through affirmative action."

10:34–12:16 — Luke Waldo

Sets up the historical walk-through of key policy milestones that built today's foster care system.

12:16–15:52 — Prudence Beidler Carr

Three major pre-1961 shifts: (1) Very few Black children in formal foster care; (2) Rare judicial involvement in child removal; (3) No federal foster care funding until 1961 — that infusion of dollars fundamentally reshaped child welfare law.

15:52–21:32 — Luke Waldo & Prudence Beidler Carr

History of Mother's Pensions and Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) in the early 20th century. "Suitable home" standards were loosely defined by states and caseworkers — fitness to receive assistance, not fitness to parent.

22:30–29:28 — Prudence Beidler Carr

The second New Deal and the Social Security Act (Title IV) structured children's support through ADC. The NAACP, Urban League, and others challenged discriminatory administration. After Brown v. Board of Education (1954), 23 states tightened suitability rules within 4 years to restrict ADC access — effectively using it to push Black and Native American families out of communities to avoid school integration. Caseworkers began threatening removal, not just loss of benefits.

29:28–33:16 — Luke Waldo & Prudence Beidler Carr

The federal government had given states full discretion over ADC, so had no authority to stop discriminatory administration. In the year Ruby Bridges integrated Louisiana schools, the state cut ~23,000 children (95% nonwhite) from public assistance. HHS Secretary Arthur Flemming issued the Flemming Rule to stop this — but included two exceptions: states could still restrict ADC if they tried to "help" the family, or if they removed the child. The second exception effectively incentivized removal.

33:16–41:22 — Prudence Beidler Carr & Luke Waldo

In 1961, for the first time, Congress provided federal funding for foster care maintenance payments — in response to states requesting authority to remove children from homes deemed unsuitable for ADC. The "1961 magic trick": a few words in statute created an entirely new system that shifted from supporting families to separating them. Flemming likely did not intend to create a massive foster care system.

41:22–52:17 — Prudence Beidler Carr

The Child Welfare League of America pushed for judicial oversight of removals, but judges largely rubber-stamped caseworker decisions. In 1962, Congress codified the standard: states receive federal foster care reimbursement when a judge finds it "contrary to the child's welfare" to remain home. No operational definition was provided. The standard was about poverty, not abuse.

52:33–57:15 — Prudence Beidler Carr

The legal structure was never about protecting children from abuse — it was a generic poverty-based removal standard. Dr. Henry Kempe's 1962 "battered child syndrome" article came after the initial surge in foster care entries. By the mid-1960s, two-thirds of foster care placements stemmed from ADC referrals with limited abuse allegations.

57:15–1:05:35 — Prudence Beidler Carr

Before 1960 very few Black children were in formal foster care. By 1977: 28% of all children in foster care were Black; by ~1999: 40%. Congress repeatedly expanded foster care funding (an uncapped entitlement) rather than increasing ADC, structurally incentivizing removal. Prudence reflects on presenting this history: audiences consistently report feeling relieved to understand the system's roots and recognize it wasn't designed to do what they thought they were entering the field to do.

1:05:35–1:10:21 — Luke Waldo & Prudence Beidler Carr

65 years in, we now have intention — we can no longer call harm an "unintended consequence." This is a call to action: "It's the present and it's ours for the remaking."

1:10:21–1:14:47 — Luke Waldo & Prudence Beidler Carr

Reflection on the 1961-62 fork in the road: federal dollars could have been directed to abuse cases OR toward deeper family support. Instead the system lost focus on child protection from imminent harm. Today, 37% of all American children — and 53% of Black children — will experience a child welfare investigation before age 18. The cost extends to all families, echoing Heather McGhee's "drain the pool" metaphor.

1:33:58–1:35:47 — Luke Waldo & Prudence Beidler Carr

Closing remarks. Check out Prudence at the upcoming Together for Children conference.

1:35:47–End — Luke Waldo

Outro: The next episode explores how these narratives manifest as individual experiences and community harm, featuring Dr. Pegah Faed (Safe and Sound), Valerie Frost (national lived experience expert), Claudia Rowe (National Book Awards finalist, Wards of the State), and others.

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Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4

Show Notes: Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Annessa Hartman – Oregon State Representative
• Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – ACE Resource Network and Former California Surgeon General
• Desmond Meade – Florida Rights Restoration Coalition
• Tshaka Barrows – Haywood Burns Institute
• Samantha Mellerson – Haywood Burns Institute
• Dr. Bruce Perry – Child Trauma Academy
• Jessica Moyer – FrameWorks Institute

00:00-02:20 – Luke Waldo - So far this season, we’ve tracked the big picture, the public narratives that shape our culture. We’ve examined the harmful patterns where radical individualism intersects with caregiving that turns collective crises into personal failures and therefore shrink our sense of shared responsibility. But today, we’re going inward.

Today, we turn inward to examine those internal filters, our mental models—the deeply held beliefs that too often divide us and limit our own capacity for change.

Today, we are asking: What happens when those filters limit us? What happens when the stories we tell ourselves keep us from seeing our own power, or the humanity of the person standing right next to us?

This is Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves.

2:20-2:33 – Media Clips

2:33-2:57 - Luke Waldo – But it’s also a deeply personal one. Before we can change the systems that serve families, we often have to rewrite the internal scripts that tell us we can’t.

2:57-3:46 – Annessa Hartman – “I had no dreams of becoming a politician by any means, and I ran really with the like conviction that every single person deserved to be at all levels of government, that if certain people can run for higher office, Why can't someone who went to culinary school, who was raised by a single mom who we, you know, had to choose between whether or not she was going to pay a bill versus putting food on the table? Like, why can't people with lived experience be in these positions?”

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Annessa Hartman

3:46-5:07 – Luke Waldo - That is the internal narrative work. It is a story we now tell ourselves because it's the dominant narrative that's been told to us over the years.

[Media Clips]

How high we reach is often determined by the limits of our imagination. Our imagination is built on the stories that we’ve been told and those that have been withheld or dismissed as unattainable and inaccessible.

It’s why Annessa had to dismantle a story that said "people like me don't belong in power".

5:07-5:55 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “One of the things that you learn when you're a child and you're exposed to huge amounts of trauma and it persists is is that if you raise your voice, it doesn't do anything. And in my adult life, it has been very important for me to rewrite that narrative, to say, you know what? If I speak up, it does make a difference. We can change outcomes for people.”

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris

5:55-7:07 – Luke Waldo – If we believe the story that our voice doesn't matter, we create and maintain systems that are unresponsive and unaccountable to us, but if we rewrite that script, we create openings for change.

In our first episode, Jess Moyer from FrameWorks warned us about the "individualism" mindset, the idea that people end up where they are solely because of their own choices. When we tell ourselves that story about a parent involved in the child welfare system, or a person returning from incarceration, we distance ourselves. We create an "Other."

7:08-7:48 – Desmond Meade – “The United States, before they bombed Hiroshima Nagasaki, they engaged in this narrative campaign that desensitized people as to the humanities of Japanese and actually dehumanized them, right? And and and and in doing so, when they did drop the bomb and killed all these kids and women, they were celebrating in the streets. Think about it, celebrating in the streets. That's the power of the narrative. A narrative actually controls how we react to atrocities.”

[Media Clip]

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Desmond Meade

7:48-8:10– Luke Waldo – Narrative controls how we react to atrocities. It controls whether we celebrate suffering or mourn it.

Desmond’s antidote to this dehumanization isn’t a policy paper. It’s a memory. A story from his childhood that challenges harmful narratives that keep us apart. He calls it the "poison pill" to polarization.

8:10-9:45 – Desmond Meade – “And that poison pill, I believe, is this connectivity that we have.”

The story about Amy.

• Let My People Vote – Desmond Meade

9:45-10:15 – Luke Waldo – If only there were a way to challenge the narrative of division, a cure-all, a simple way to reframe the “Other” into someone familiar. How might you do that? And if you and your organization have been nominated for a Nobel Peace prize for changing hearts and minds of millions of people, you likely had to wrestle with that very question.

10:15-10:53 – Desmond Meade – “Whenever I approach somebody, right? First question I ask Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? You know what I say? I say anybody who you love or care about who's ever had a felony conviction. See the difference? You see what I just did, right? Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? Right? See what I did there, right? Well, number one, love, right? Number two, it's somebody who you love that you're connected to. And it's not those people, right?”

10:53-11:19 – Luke Waldo – This is narrative change in action. It shifts the mindset from punishment to shared experiences to empathy.

11:19-11:52 – Annessa Hartman – “If someone could just learn to like help their neighbor instead of just immediately judgment and like learn it, like lean in with curiosity rather than immediate judgment, like what could that do for people? And I think that the same thing could be said in an agency lens, right? Like um, if someone is dealing with substance use, not your bad parent, but why? Like, and what can we do to help you instead of judging you in that way?”

11:52-12:28 – Luke Waldo – But what happens when these old stories, stories of judgment, of separation, of hierarchy, get told over and over again that they feel stuck as if poured in concrete? They become the foundations of our systems.

12:28-13:01 - Tshaka Barrows – “…I often ask people to think about, you know, our railroad tracks and the system that moves all of the cargo across this country. People every day are on these railroad tracks. The width of them. Was it based on study? Is it the most advanced width, you know, that we could come up with? Or is it based on the horse and buggy that they used to build that first set of tracks? And are we still limited by that? Absolutely. That's infrastructure. You know, that's what we're trying to think about in terms of human services and this opportunity to reimagine.”

13:01-13:39 – Samantha Mellerson – “I think it's really important to acknowledge when these systems and institutions were created, they were created for certain folks in mind. We had a lot of people in the population that were not considered human at that time, right? … When you look at the even the history, the root of these foundations, these institutions are rooted in systemic inequities, right? Very deliberate in a time of racial hierarchy.”

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Tshaka Barrows and Samantha Mellerson

13:39-14:16 – Luke Waldo – If the tracks were built on a narrative of exclusion, we cannot simply "reform" our way to justice. We have to tell a new story about what the tracks are for, what they are capable of and what they are not.

14:16-15:15 – Dr. Bruce Perry – “There are systems, there are mechanisms that want to put you back in equilibrium. So the status quo of a group is very hard to change, and there are lots of mechanisms that keep, maintain the status quo. And usually your view of the world is something that centers you, that involves the system accumulating resources and power and taking it up to you. And so it's the very rare person who is open-minded enough to actually see that I, we need to change something that will take power away from me.”

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Dr. Bruce Perry

15:15-15:26 – Luke Waldo – The story of the system, then, is often the story of self-preservation. To change it requires what Tshaka Barrows calls "reimagining." It requires us to believe that a different way is possible.

15:26-15:53 – Tshaka Barrows – “We need examples of humans figuring it out. What does that look like? Why is our creative juices not pouring in that direction?”

15:53-16:23 – Luke Waldo – We need to shine the light on examples of humans figuring it out. We need new stories. Success stories. Stories of connection, shared aspirations, communal resilience, and thriving communities.

16:23-16:53 – Jess Moyer – “We need to kind of take that lens to every decision that we make together. How will this impact children? And kind of think through that question. Because all the decisions we make about society have some impact on children in some way, and in the same way they impact all of us. They're social issues and that they touch all of our lives. So expanding that concept of care to something that's collective, inclusive, and expansive, I think is something that everybody can do.”

16:53-17:14 – Luke Waldo – When we expand the story of care, we change the logic of systems. We move from a story of fixing broken people to a story of building healing environments.

17:14-17:51 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – But one of the things that a panelist mentioned is that the opposite of vision is fear, right? And so I can understand if there's fear there, right? But then I think that there's this incredible opportunity for us to come together, even if there is fear and concerns around solutions, so we don't let that fear get in the way of families getting the access to the services that they need.

17:51-18:06 – Luke Waldo – The opposite of vision is fear.

Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who has spent her career showing us the link between trauma and health, is now writing a new story about what that trauma actually means. It’s not just harm. It’s power.

18:06-18:47 - Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “I'm close to the beginning of writing my second book now, and it's called Pain to Power. And it's like our source of our pain is also the source of our superpowers. The fact that ACEs impact all these different sectors is huge. It's a huge toll on our society. ... But it's also the source of our superpower because it means that everyone's got a stake in this. So when we come together and we do it strategically and we're organized and we each play our different part, we can make transformative change.”

18:47-21:47– Luke Waldo – “The stories we tell ourselves can either keep us trapped in fear, fear of the other, fear of losing power, fear that we don't matter, or they can give us the vision to build something new, to play our part in making transformative change.

I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift: Voices of Prevention, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links above.

Today, we turned inward to examine the stories we tell ourselves and how these personal stories scale up to become the very foundations of our systems - systems built like old railroad tracks that were designed for a different time, for some, not all.

But here's the powerful part: we learned that we are the authors of these narratives. Every time we choose curiosity over judgment, every time we see a parent's struggle in context rather than as their character, and every time we speak up when the system tries to silence us, we are editing the script.

But there's another crucial part of this story: how dominant narratives don't just stay in our heads—they become concrete. They transform into policies. They solidify into practices. They get reinforced until they become the systems that govern our lives.

In our next episode, we're going to meet Prudence Beidler Carr, Director of the American Bar Association’s Center on Children and the Law, who will walk us through a pivotal moment in history when a dominant narrative about "unfit parents" became the foundation for the child welfare system as we know it today. We'll explore how the stories we tell about poverty and parenting got confused, then codified into law, and what that means for families still caught in that system. Because if we want to reimagine harmful systems, we first have to understand how narratives built them in the first place.

Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4

Show Notes: Episode 2: “We Need Both”: The Science and Stories of Strategic Communication

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jessica Moyer – FrameWorks Institute
• Claudia Rowe – National Book Award Finalist and Seattle Times
• Dr. Bruce Perry – Child Trauma Academy
• Desmond Meade – Florida Rights Restoration Coalition

00:00-04:22 – Luke Waldo - Jess Moyer and her metaphors from our first episode still have me thinking. Tilling the soil for social change. Not persuading, not convincing, but rather creating the conditions for new ways of thinking to grow.

But what exactly are we tilling? What lies beneath the surface that needs turning over?

Introduction to Jess Moyer and her bio.

I'm honored that Jess has joined us again to serve as my copilot for breaking down and analyzing some of the powerful narrative change efforts that we are hearing this season from many of our other guests. But before we get into some of that conversation, let's start again with what Jess and FrameWorks Institute do and why it's so important in this moment we are living in.

4:22-6:26 – Jessica Moyer – “FrameWorks is a social science research and advocacy organization. We study the relationship between culture and communication, how each of those things kind of shapes and is shaped by the other. And we are really interested in how we can use our communications to engage with how we think as a culture in our sort of shared cultural practices. Our mission is about framing the public discourse and building public will for positive social change.”

6:26-8:03 – Luke Waldo – Could you elaborate on the difference between a story or an anecdote about a family, for example, and a narrative that pattern of stories? And how does a strategically framed story interrupt an entrenched, harmful narrative?

8:03-10:07 – Jessica Moyer – “Each of those stories, it fills in the details in their own particular ways, but there are common patterns across those stories, and that that commonality is the shared narrative.”

The “Bootstraps” narrative and The Pursuit of Happyness.

• The Pursuit of Happyness– Chris Gardner

10:07-10:40 – Will Smith - “and don't ever let somebody tell you you can't do something, not even me. All right. You got a dream. You got to protect it. People can't do something themselves. They want to tell you, you can't do it. You want something. Go get it. Period.”

• The Pursuit of Happyness movie

10:40-11:52 – Jess Moyer – “I think an important takeaway here is that it's an insight of the work of narrative change, that we can make some choices. It sometimes seems inevitable that a story gets told in the way that it does, but actually we can tell the same story in so many different ways, and the different ways that we tell it have different implications for how we think in general and can bring about different effects.”

11:52-12:25 – Luke Waldo – I'm going to use an example that I just heard from Claudia Rowe, who wrote a book called Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care. And she talks about a similar Pursuit of Happiness and bootstraps story in which a young man in foster care enters foster care when he's 11,12 years old…

• Wards of the State: The Long Shadow of American Foster Care – Claudia Rowe

12:25-15:13 – Claudia Rowe and Luke Waldo – The story of Jay and the mentor

15:13-16:10– Luke Waldo – But I'm curious, why do we either ignore that part of the story, right, that that in many ways, our success is as much an outcome of the other people in our lives that believe in us, that invest in us, that lift us up, that pick us back up, right? That, that they, they, they help us put those boots on so that we can pull ourselves up by those bootstraps, right? Why is that part of the story often times ignored, or, for that matter, in some cases, just not told?

16:10-20:03 – Jessica Moyer – “The individualism mindset is so strong and so dominant, it's really easily activated.”

“I think it's also, I mean, it's interesting to think about that person's story and the alternative tellings that are, that maybe require a little bit more work, because we have to get we have to first recognize what the default thinking is, and then actively choose to take a different approach, to try to understand what are the other mindsets that are available that we might want to work hard to to queue up and to build on.”

20:03-21:10 – Luke Waldo – We have to be cognizant of the fact that there are many dominant narratives oftentimes at play in the same moment.

We're put in a position where we if we want to get to curious, we have to really start to ask ourselves, why all of those particular narratives are being triggered in the first place, right?

21:10-22:01 – Claudia Rowe and Luke Waldo – “And as Claudia Rowe, again, said quite a bit in our conversation, is she wanted to tell this story because she was continuously struggling with, she's always been struggling with these, you know, these monikers, these, these frames of she talked about the monster…”

22:01-22:57 – Luke Waldo – So what is the single most common and harmful framing choice you see advocates make when talking about issues like child welfare or family well-being, and what specific framing choice or choices could or should replace it?

22:57-27:02 – Jessica Moyer – “…some framing choices are harmful, but they're actually a whole lot more of them that are just maybe not actively harmful, but kind of get us stuck, or kind of fail to get us unstuck.”

Communication traps.

27:02-29:24 – Luke Waldo – So in the season, we've heard from Dr Bruce Perry. He talks in in his conversation, and again, hear this whole conversation at The Shift, but he does talk at one point about how people have really connected when he talks about about the brain, the brain feels like science…

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Dr. Bruce Perry

29:24-29:46 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “…because the brain's interesting, and for many people, it feels and this is probably not fair, but it feels more like science than when you talk about social science or psychology, which a lot of people have weird biases about. We're saying the same thing. But if you use kind of brain examples, people go, Oh, the brain.”

29:46-30:23 - Luke Waldo – Building off what you just said from a FrameWorks perspective, what is the value of kind of explanatory metaphors, again, like tilling the soil for social change, while also really pairing it or supporting it with concrete science or research or evidence? And do you feel like either the kind of metaphors, the storytelling or the concrete science is more powerful in changing culture and mindsets?

30:23-34:11 – Jessica Moyer – “That's a great question and a fun one to answer, and I'm I think the short answer is that we need both. We absolutely need both to bring science into our communications. And metaphors are a natural way of thinking and talking. We use them all the time, oftentimes without even realizing that we're using them. But also, an interesting thing is, like you sort of alluded to, metaphors are really, are an effective explanatory tool, and that makes them really well suited to translating science. In fact, the earliest work that FrameWorks did was to translate the science of early childhood development the science of brain development, you know, starting in in the earliest days and weeks of life.”

• FrameWorks Institute – Early Childhood and Brain Science

34:11-35:07 – Luke Waldo – So how do you recommend communicators, or how do you recommend that communicators practically do this without losing kind of the human element of the story? And what specific details or contextual factors should we always put in and never leave out?

35:07-37:17 - Jessica Moyer – “I think of it as being about telling a fuller story about people and about our lives and experiences, because we we don't, we don't exist in a vacuum, right? We interact with our surroundings, and we're influenced by our environments, and we influence our environments, and we're shaped by our relationships and the spaces that we occupy. So that's part of putting parents or putting anyone in context is sharing the full kind of experience of their being and everything that they come in contact with and are in relationship with.”

37:17-37:49 - Luke Waldo – What are a few examples of policies or programs that become kind of legible or good examples of forms of caregiving when framed this way? And you know, for one instance, one that we talk about a lot in our work. How do we reframe a discussion about, say, housing assistance as a form of care?

37:49-40:48 – Jessica Moyer – “I think just by making the connection explicit, and that doesn't have to be a complicated framing choice. Oftentimes really subtle, kind of seemingly very minor, framing choices can have big impacts. In this case, it really matters if we name that there's a connection between, for example, housing policies and the well-being of children, and it's not that hard for folks to see. And also that that lexicon of care, the language of caregiving, is an effective way to do that gives us some tools for doing that.”

40:48-41:42 – Luke Waldo – Desmond Meade in particular speaks really powerfully about how narratives of the other or them can lead to the dehumanization or demonization of groups of people. He then talks about reframing and building a narrative to activate a sense of us, and he does that through this idea of love.

• The Shift: Voices of Prevention – Desmond Meade

41:42-42:00 - Desmond Meade – “How I push it up is having people see a reason to love someone. No, I think the key is, if we can get people to love who, what they despise the most, or who they hate the most, then they're capable of loving everyone.”

42:00-42:31 – Luke Waldo – First, what do you believe is the strategic risk of telling a story that is too focused on the problem, on tragedy or even deep pain and suffering? And then you know, is there well, by focusing too heavily on need rather than possibility, does that inadvertently reinforce this harmful us versus them or other narrative?

42:31-43:27 – Jessica Moyer – “So the first thing is that when I mean I actually am really inspired by Trabian Shorters, who you may know, and I'm guessing lots of listeners know, who says this part much more beautifully than I'll be able to right now…”

• Trabian Shorters

43:27-43:59 - Trabian Shorters – “I don't run around believing I'm an at risk this, or a low income that, or a high poverty, high crime, like no one carries around those labels, thinking that's how I'm going to face the world. Right? People think about is I want to maybe go to school. I want to maybe someday own a home. I want to maybe possibly get out of this neighborhood, or come back to this neighborhood and build. Whatever that person's aspiration is, if you haven't bothered to acknowledge that aspiration before you engage them, then you've made them an object in the sentence. They are a thing to be dealt with, to be moved, to be manipulated. They are not a person.”

43:59-47:15 – Jessica Moyer – “Even when it is well intentioned, and even when it taps into kind of a sense of concern or sympathy, it also reinforces that idea that there's an us and there's a them, and there's a critical distinction between those two things. It has a way of kind of making us feel different and apart and as if our interests are conflicting rather than shared.”

“That's an easy mindset to queue up and a really, really unhelpful one. There are alternative mindsets, though, and and the good news is there are ways to navigate around that thinking and to kind of push it into the background and to build understanding about our interconnection, our interdependence, the how well being is shared and mutually reinforcing.”

47:15-49:39 - Luke Waldo - How do we tell stories?

What stories do we tell when we see someone struggle?

Do we see a bootstraps story, a lone individual overcoming odds, or do we see the mentor who showed them a different path to school? The program that made that mentorship possible? The design of the neighborhood that made one route dangerous and another safe?

Do we focus on problems until people feel fatalistic, or do we till the soil for something new to grow? Do we play in someone else's frame, or do we set the terms of the conversation ourselves?

I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift: Voices of Prevention, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links above.

In our next episode, we turn inward to examine those internal scripts. We'll hear from the powerful thought leaders and changemakers that you heard in episode 1 from my collaboration with Prevent Child Abuse America and interviews from The Shift. And we'll explore how these personal stories scale up to become the very foundations of our systems.

49:39 – Luke Waldo – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4

Show Notes: Episode 1: Tilling the Soil for Social Change

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jessica Moyer – FrameWorks Institute
• Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – ACE Resource Network and former California Surgeon General
• Samantha Mellerson – Haywood Burns Institute
• Dr. Bruce Perry – Child Trauma Academy
• Representative Annessa Hartman – Oregon State Representative
• Desmond Meade – Florida Rights Restoration Coalition

00:00-01:59 – Luke Waldo - Over the past three seasons of Overloaded we have explored the forces that overload families, from poverty to social isolation, systemic racism to mistrust of our systems. But this season, we're looking at something more invisible, the stories behind these forces…

[Media clips about narratives behind overloaded families and child welfare]

2:00-3:16 – Luke Waldo - Changing those narratives takes intention, courage and collective effort. Together, we can tell a story that uplifts instead of blames, that prevents harm before it happens. In season four, we're taking apart the stories that define our families, our communities and our future and building better ones together.

You will hear from the inspiring changemakers that I had the honor of interviewing this past summer at the 2025 Prevent Child Abuse America national conference for their podcast The Shift: Voices of Prevention.

3:17-3:53 – Jessica Moyer – “What we're seeking to change are things that are really entrenched, really embedded. I mean, culture doesn't move quickly.”

3:53-3:58 – Luke Waldo – What is a narrative?

3:58-6:23 – Jessica Moyer – “Narratives are made up of lots of different stories. So narratives are kind of patterns in stories.”

Defining narrative, stories, mental models, and framing.

“Which ones do we want to kind of cultivate and activate and queue up and utilize, and which are the ones that are holding us back? Which are the ones that are maybe being activated by default but not really helping us? Which ones are unproductive? And how do we steer clear of those? And we do think of it in terms of kind of like we love a good explanatory metaphor at FrameWorks, but we think of it as kind of like tilling the soil for social change. So it's about laying the groundwork that will enable all kinds of decisions and collective actions that will have an impact. But the change that we're seeking is slow, and it happens over a long period of time.”

6:23-7:04 – Luke Waldo – “…narrative is such a powerful force that it impacts how we aspire, where we put our empathy, and even how we react to how trauma affects us and those we love.”

7:04-7:21 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “Let me tell you one of these stories that we've been telling ourselves, one of the stories that we've been telling ourselves as a society is that talking about trauma and adversity does harm.”

7:21-7:58 – Luke Waldo – Even when evidence changes or even our realities, old stories linger, shaping what we see, the way we act and what we ignore. But why? Or maybe how is a better question. How do our mindsets and the narratives that may shape or change them work? How does it all function?

7:58-9:34– Jessica Moyer – “Mindsets are those deeply held, kind of latent, sort of default patterns and thinking they're different from public opinions, because we're not always even aware that we're holding them. They're sort of kind of lenses on the world that we share, that influence how we see the world, how we process new information, and they are durable.”

“Framing has to do with that, the way that we tell stories, the way that we present information. Framing involves lots of different choices in how we communicate. And anytime we're communicating, we're framing. So framing involves things like, what do we put into a particular message? What are the things that we don't say? What tone do we adopt? What values do we appeal to? How do we explain particular concepts? What examples do we draw on to make a particular point or to explain a particular concept?”

9:34-9:58 – Luke Waldo – “Let’s imagine this all as a tree. If mindsets are the roots, narratives are the trunk. And were we to step back … way back… far enough to see it all … framing is how we describe the forest.”

9:58-10:24 – Jessica Moyer – “Choices, but a lot of times, we're making those choices without realizing that we're making them or making them without realizing what impact they'll have.”

10:24-10:38 – Luke Waldo – “And yet, over and over again, we are often making the same choices, choosing the same narratives and treading the same path. Why is that?”

10:38-10:49 – Samantha Mellerson – “Somehow we've become so conflict averse that we dare not present an idea that's different or that may be perceived as against the norm of what's happening, right?”

10:49-11:03 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “I think part of the issue is that people tend to view the world and problems from their frame of reference, from where they're standing.”

• What Happened to You? Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing by Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey

11:03-11:42 - Luke Waldo – But what I love about Frameworks’ approach, and what I’ve learned through Overloaded, is that framing isn’t manipulation, or coercion or even persuasion. It’s stewardship.

It’s about creating the conditions, the mental space where truth and empathy can coexist. Or even better: where it can thrive. How might we do that in the face of harmful, dominant narratives?

11:42-16:13 - Jessica Moyer – Exploration of the individualism and “care matters most” mindsets.

16:13-16:44 - Luke Waldo – “Those mental models are then reinforced by narratives, which can lead to how we behave, pass laws, on-board practices and procedures; it reinforces how we see our overloaded parents, caregivers, and families.”

16:44-17:32 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “And so by and large, really, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago, uh, the majority of people that were solving problems around education, child welfare, mental health were looking at it through the lenses of an adult.”

17:32-19:00 - Luke Waldo – Story about fatherhood and the “empty vessel” myth.

19:00-19:28 - Annessa Hartman – “I think one common story I often hear from people is that we keep people poor so that they can stay on these services.”

19:28-20:23 – Luke Waldo – “Time and time again, history tells us that when we accept dominant narratives uncritically, we make decisions, often motivated or informed by fear or suspicion, not understanding or empathy.”

[Media clips about overloaded families and child welfare]

20:23-23:32 - Jessica Moyer – “What we found to be most effective in the end was to sort of redefine care itself, to define care much more broadly, to define care as something that is a collective endeavor.”

23:32-24:09 - Luke Waldo – “And what Jess is saying is that by broadening our definition of, in this case, care, we turn empathy into infrastructure for better, more constructive narratives. This is where narrative becomes strategy.”

24:09-24:16 - Annessa Hartman – “We need people who understand what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck.”

24:16-24:32 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “Form real relationships.”

24:32-25:05 - Desmond Meade – “…if we can get people to love who, what they despise the most, or who they hate the most, then they're capable of loving everyone, right?”

25:05-26:47 - Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “The more you just kind of scrape under the surface and start to look at how these odds are set, right, the more, the easier it is you to recognize the embedding of some of these structural inequities in our society.”

26:47-27:17 – Luke Waldo - When we tell stories that reflect our interdependence, we make it possible for systems to act on that truth.

A final, if not nagging, question Season 4 seeks to answer: How do we do that?

27:17-29:01 – Jessica Moyer – “So expanding that concept of care to something that's collective, inclusive and expansive, I think, is something that everybody can do.”

29:01-30:40 - Luke Waldo - Narrative change is patient, strategic work. It’s about returning, again and again, to the same truth: that families thrive when communities do.
Every conversation, every story, every small policy that affirms that truth, it all tills the soil. And over time, that soil grows something new: belonging, stability, and shared possibility.

I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift: Voices of Prevention, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift: Voices of Prevention wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links below.

• From Pain to Power: Dr. Nadine Burke Harris on Healing and Prevention
• Quantum Leap Possibilities of Prevention with Dr. Bruce Perry
• Reimagining Together: Seeding System Success with Samantha Mellerson and Tshaka Barrows
• Love as a Force for Justice with Desmond Meade
• Policy Through Lived Experience with Rep. Annessa Hartman
• Framing Family Well-Being: From Blame to Belonging | Jessica Moyer

In our next episode, Jess Moyer joins me in the studio to go deeper. We'll explore the mechanics of how narratives work, how mindsets get activated, how stories reinforce or challenge those patterns, and most importantly, how we can make strategic choices in our framing to shift culture and policy. If you've been wondering how to actually apply these ideas in your work, your conversations, or your community, episode two is where we dig into the how.

30:40 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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0:08 - Luke Waldo: The first three seasons of Overloaded explored the forces that overload families from poverty to social isolation, systemic racism to mistrust of our systems. But this season, we're looking at something more invisible, the stories behind those forces. And how stories shape what we believe, how we act, and who we hold responsible.

Join me, Luke Waldo, on Wednesday, February 4th for season 4 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we're taking apart the stories that define our families, our communities, and our future, and building better ones together.

Through conversations with changemakers like Frameworks Institute’s Jess Moyer…

0:59 – Jess Moyer: What we're talking about is kind of an ambitious endeavor. And what we're seeking to change are things that are really entrenched.

1:08 – Luke Waldo: Doctors Nadine Burke Harris and Bruce Perry…

1:11 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris: Do you want me to speak truthfully?

1:13 - Dr. Bruce Perry: People tend to view the world and problems from their frame of reference.

1:18 - Dr. Nadine Burke Harris: The more you just kind of scrape under the surface the easier it is to recognize that those structures are not accidental.

1:28 – Luke Waldo: National Book Award finalist Claudia Rowe…

1:31 - Claudia Rowe: Some of those storylines have not changed all that much, and I am surprised, frankly, that I still encounter them even up to, you know, like last week.

1:42 – Luke Waldo: American Bar Association Center on Children and the Law Director Prudence Beidler Carr…

1:47 - Prudence Beidler Carr: We've essentially created a mechanism for determining that a child who was living in a home where the parents were found unfit, not because they've abused their child, not because there's an imminent risk of harm, not because that child has experienced a safety issue, but because the parents sought help, were rejected from that help, and now unfit to care for their child, so their child is removed from their care.

2:15 – Luke Waldo: National Lived Experience Leader Valerie Frost…

2:18 – Valerie Frost: You know it’s really humbling to have systems involvement in that way that’s shocking. Because I now know, for the rest of my life, I don’t really have anything. Right now, on this call, CPS could come knock on my door, they could go pick up my kids from school. They could do any day.

2:36 – Luke Waldo: And Anti-Hate Advocate Pardeep Singh Kaleka amongst many others, we explore the question: “What stories shape how we see the world? And how can we tell them differently?

2:49 – Pardeep Singh Kaleka: Maybe we can go past what we say about each other…

2:55 – Luke Waldo: Join us on Wednesday, February 4th when we premiere season 4 wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Luke Waldo 00:04

Welcome to season 3 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we explore how we might change the conditions that overload families with stress, so that families can thrive and children grow up with a strong foundation built on positive childhood experiences.

Hey everyone, this is Luke Waldo, your host for this podcast series and the Director of Program Design and Community Engagement for the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, our partnership between Children’s Wisconsin and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Helen Bader School of Social Welfare.

Luke Waldo 00:47

This season’s bonus episode was inspired by our collaboration with Children’s Home Society of America or CHSA and the upcoming Wicked Problems Institute national convening on November 13th and 14th. The Wicked Problems Institute will bring together CHSA’s state-based member organizations and a team of partners from their state including individuals with lived expertise, philanthropists, public agency leaders, researchers, elected officials, health care providers, community-based advocates and others committed to improving the lives of children and families.

I have the great honor of opening Wicked with the powerful conversation you are about to hear with 7 lived experience changemakers from across the country. Their diverse lived experiences shed a bright light on what is weighing most heavily on them about families’ well-being right now, and how leaders should respond differently if they want to build a better future with families. Now on to the conversation.

We are living in a moment that demands both urgency and reflection. Families are experiencing rapid shifts in policy, resources, and daily life. The Wicked Problems Institute 2025 offers a rare space to pause, learn, and generate fresh thinking that leads to stability, connection, positive experiences, health, and well-being for families and their communities.

As we welcome you to this year’s Wicked Problems Institute - The Future We Shape Together: Real Solutions for Families in Changing Times – let’s start our two days together by listening to what is weighing most heavily on caregivers and families and what is needed to lighten the overload.

Welcome. I'm Luke Waldo, as we welcome all of you to Wicked Problems 2025 we wanted to ask the question of what is weighing most heavily on you. As a caregiver, as someone who's been impacted by the child welfare system, as somebody who's part of their community, and this is what we had to say.

Valerie Frost 02:46

My name is Valerie Frost. My favorite title is mom. I am based here in Kentucky, and I have lived experience with public assistance, child welfare and court systems.

So what's weighing on me most heavily right now about family well-being is how out of reach it feels, and that's because of power who holds it and who is blocked from having any those with the most power over policies and programs, they tend to be the furthest from the realities that families live. Families and systems are becoming more and more disconnected.

So I remember when my twins were in the NICU, how Medicaid covered their stay, and I'm grateful for that, but afterward, constant authorizations made caring for infants with developmental needs hard. During my second pregnancy, my childcare assistance was cut off because of a verification error, and I was charged for a denied appeal the same month I gave birth. I've had three CPS investigations that offered no support and only exasperated the situation I was found in. I know these systems because I am living them, but too often my voice, and voices like mine are the least heard or completely left out. Families are not failing, systems are.

Michael Huesca 04:09

Hello everyone and welcome. My name is Michael Huesca. I'm a birth father who has been impacted by the child welfare system, and I'm here elevating the voices of families and parents.

What weighs heavily on me is really a collective of things. Right now, for black and brown folks that are in our country, it's a scary time. It is a time where children are experiencing the highest level of anxiety and trauma, whether they are going to see their parents, whether their parents are going to be harmed, whether they're going to be harmed, is such a fear for so many children today and for so many families. What worries me is this is another barrier for us giving help to families. Who's going to ask for help when they're fearing the very government that might be asking to offer that said help? I think that's a real big challenge.

And additionally, it's been decades that we know fathers are important for families and children well-being yet we have yet been able to authentically engage those and so it's our hope, it's my hope, that we're able to have conversations about strategies that could be effective in solving some of these solutions.

Derreasha Jones 05:35

Hi, my name is Derreasha Jones. I am coming from the Children's Home Society of Florida, and today I identify with change makers and community advocates.

It's weighing heavily on me that these issues are not new. It shows us that things are getting worse for our families. Historically, our families have been trying to build stability and systems that weren't even designed for them to thrive, and so they've climbed and climbed and climbed, and here they go to fall again. And instead of trying to build a net to save them, why were they falling in the first place? And so we have to look at history the way that it is, without erasing it, rewriting it or acting like it's not there. And so we all know that the cost of living keeps rising, but wages and resources haven't kept pace, and that creates a ripple effect on mental health, relationships and child development.

Sonia Cohen 06:31

Hello.I am Sonia Marie Cohen, lived expert, consultant and Child and Family Well Being advocate as well as an impacted young person, not so young anymore by both the child welfare and justice system.

You know what's weighing on me the most when I watch, oh, man, it's an accumulation of everything that families are being asked to hold. I think about families that I work alongside with every day I think about my family, my own story, which is often unburied, as I sit back and watch time after time harm be perpetuated against our young people and families. And I think about often what it means to grow up in systems that were supposed to protect us, to protect our families, to protect our young people, but instead fractured the very fabric of our beingness, our sense of safety, our sense of trust and our sense of belonging.

It aches me to watch the harm continuing to see families, especially those mostly impacted by poverty and racism and generational trauma, still having to prove their worthiness of support and healing of human dignity and resources, quite frankly, that are essential to them surviving to their well-being. It's heartbreaking. What also saddens me is how little we're prioritizing healing and well-being at a time such as this, when families need it the most, the spaces that hold people together, the communities and resource centers that are always constantly there, the healing circles, the gathering hubs, the services, the resources that families and young people trust and rely on, truly rely on, that now they're at risk of losing funding.

I you know, often think about how we make this commitment and do this work from a place of we want families to be well. We want families to be better, yet we're watching the very programs that make that possible, the support, the wellness, the healing possible. We're watching them struggle to survive. Healing cannot happen in scarcity. If we truly want families to heal, to stay strong, to feel safe, to feel together, to be together, we must invest in the people and the places that create that sense of belonging, safety and collective healing.

Titianna Goings 08:57

Hello, I'm Titianna Goings, located in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I am identifying with kinship caregivers.

Economic and financial strains weigh most heavily on me regarding families’ well-being. In my opinion, work life balance is also essential to the well-being of families. With the rise in housing costs, childcare expenses and the price of groceries, that balance becomes interrupted. We must strengthen community support systems, advocate for family friendly workplace policies and promote financial security initiatives that help families meet their basic needs and maintain a healthy work life balance.

Shana King 09:36

My name is Ida’akube Xuba’ash Mia, Holy Owl Woman in Hidatsa, and my English given name is Shana King. I am a parent mentor at the ICWA Law Center in Minneapolis. I am somebody who aged out of foster care and then I became a parent who was involved in the system as well. I successfully reunified with my children. I am here to reach everybody who works in the child welfare system.

What weighs on me most in this current times is watching an entire race of people's families be torn apart, and what's going to happen to those children in the future. I've seen it happen to my people, and I have, I'm a product of that. I can trace our historical trauma that happened to Indigenous people down my family tree, including me and my children. I think about the adoption era and the boarding school era and how people were just okay with that and how that has so impacted my people today, and now I'm watching that again.

I also work in the Indigenous community, so I am dealing with families who are impacted by ICWA, and the generational and historical trauma that caused is hard to overcome, and now I'm watching it happen to an entire race of people based on their skin color, which includes my people too. And I just really hope that we bring some humanity back into our lives and into what we see every day that we can work with these families. We know the trauma that this causes on people due to what is going on with Black and Brown people currently. So we need to do better for our families today, because we know that we're going to have some trauma coming up in our future.

Dony Jean Charles 11:35

Hello, I'm Dony Jean Charles, Communications and Marketing Manager for Children's Home Society of Florida, and my lived experience is being a product of Community Partnership Schools.

What's been weighing on me the most is capacity in terms of families, what they're dealing with on a daily basis, all the obstacles they encounter, and where they can counteract those obstacles with resources, support and community. How can you think of watering someone else's lawn when you still have to tend to yours?

Luke Waldo 12:15

So over the next day and a half, what are we going to do about it? Here's our call to action.

Titianna Goings 12:21

Families in crisis should have access to strong community resources such as food programs and affordable, safe childcare. Employers who promote family friendly workplaces play a key role in restoring work life balance for those in less flexible jobs, it's essential to set boundaries, prioritize meaningful tasks and practice self-care to maintain stability and well-being. Get moving. Advocate.

Valerie Frost 12:49

if we want a better future, leaders need to center lived experience. Lead with families, not just for them, and close the gap between intent and impact. Traditional leaders need to share power with humility. When proximity and lived experience guide leadership, when systems are built with families instead of around them, that's when they will truly serve.

Michael Huesca 13:14

What we need to do is put humanity back into human services. We need to meet families where they are, and that's not just a cliche that's really, truly showing up and supporting where they need the support, listening to what families need. We need to stop marginalizing and separating individuals and welcome community and collaborations together. We have solutions, but we need to be heard.

Derreasha Jones 13:47

We have to make sure that the communities that we are serving have a seat at the table. We can't just give them a service. We have to try to meet their specific needs. We want to make sure that there is representation at all levels of decision making. We also want to make sure that the decisions that we're making are not short term, but they're long term. We're not thinking about an individual, but we're thinking about their families and their children and the generations that come after that. We have to remember to treat our families with dignity, because they are still the leaders of their own lives.

Sonia Cohen 14:22

I think about how much courage it takes to center humanity and healing over hierarchy, to actually sit to listen, to value, to design the future of families with families so that healing is possible.

Shana King 14:38

We need to have come to this space with an open mind. And when we look at the children we're working with, the moms and the dads, we need to realize that they're human and that they need to heal from whatever has caused them to be in this space in the first place, and think outside of the box. Think of where that family comes from, what traditions they have. Think about adding culture into case plans so that families can truly heal and not come back into the system.

Dony Jean Charles 15:04

My call to action is to empathize to reflect, reflect to build, and build to cultivate true community.

Everyone 15:14

So let's step into our conversations at Wicked with open hearts, open ears, with open hands, ready to listen, learn and act together.

Luke Waldo 15:27

I want to thank each and every one of the seven changemakers who shared their lived experience with me and all of you today. May we be moved by what's weighing most heavily on them, and inspired and guided by their calls to action.

Thank you for listening and for showing up. I hope you will join the conversation at Wicked and again soon as Season Four of Overloaded launches in 2026.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Kate Luster – Director of Human Services, Rock County Department of Human Services

:04-:44 – Kate Luster - “Co-design was very different in which the parents have truly influenced and driven what our priorities will be moving forward, how we will go about implementing. They have been a regular resource for us to really help share that power of making decisions about what should happen as we work to improve our system and to grow resources in the community.”

:55- - Luke Waldo – Opening, introduction to Kate Luster and Rock Families First, and welcome.

3:37-3:40 – Kate Luster – Thank you

3:41-4:01 – Luke Waldo – Why is Rock Families First needed today?

4:02-7:32 – Kate Luster – Rock Family First is a response to the disproportionality that Black families have experienced with the Child Protective Services in Rock County. It was also a response to the national shift within CPS to the Family First Prevention Services Act. Focusing on Black families in Beloit and how we can learn from them as to what works and what doesn’t allow us to scale up improved changes.

• Rock Families First
• Families First Prevention Services Act
• Alia

7:33-7:43 – Luke – Can you elaborate on the disparities in Rock County?

7:44-8:44 - Kate – Black families make up 22% of Child Protective Services involved families while they only make up 7% of the county’s population.

8:45-9:08 – Luke – What did Rock Families First hope to change or accomplish? What were the key strategies that were employed to advance it?

9:09-16:23 – Kate – Promote child and family well-being through partnership.

1. Increase satisfaction in engagement for Black families living in Beloit,
2. Safely reduce the total number of out-of-home placements, and
3. Eliminate racial disparities in CPS.

A Community Cultivator is a partner from Beloit who has been a bridge to Black families in Beloit with lived experience with CPS. This has led to a co-design process with many families within our community.

• The Idea Book
• The BeeHive

16:24-18:23 – Kate – This co-design process was very different as it was led by the community partners. They had influence and decision-making power from the beginning until now beyond the initial plan.

• Human-Centered Design

18:24-18:59 - Luke – We have been talking a lot this season about authentic engagement with lived experience experts. Can you share more on how that relationship and process worked?

19:00-31:31 - Kate – Co-design was central to this initiative, but we didn’t just jump into it. We first did a lot of preparation on our teams. We then worked to build trust with our community. We invested in the well-being of our staff and teams, and the trust in their leaders. We developed a two-year well-being process to ensure that leaders were responsive to staff needs. The culture changed, which led to a mindset shift that prepared us to be more responsive to our community’s needs and co-design. The system had not been designed to be family-centered. It was punitive, which put staff in a difficult position. Kate tells her story about her apology to families and the community.

31:32-32:52 - Luke – It takes courage to do what you did. People come to do this work with good intentions as they want to help children and families. What did it take to implement Rock Families First?

32:53-43:47 – Kate – We have seen a significant drop in the number of families in out of home care in CPS. We have reallocated a lot of our funds to prevention and early intervention services. We have created a position that provides in-home safety supports.

Parents and staff came together to co-design a new practice model. This has been translated into new standards and best practices for staff. Community engagement and communication have been developed through Parent Cafes. There was a strong balance between professionals with experience with developing communication plans and the lived experience understanding of what will connect with the community.

Now we are in the phase of moving forward with accountability. We are partnering with prevention and early intervention organizations, so that they can work with families that may be overloaded but don’t need the intervention of CPS.

• Family Support Program Services - Family Resource Navigator, Family Support and Preservation Specialist, In-Home Safety Supports
• Parent Cafes

43:48-4:03 - Luke – As a partner of ours with SFTCCC, it’s promising to hear the work that you are doing in the Workforce Innovation and Inclusion space. Can you expand on the workforce well-being work that you’ve done?

42:04-49:07– Kate – Culture change that empowers staff to say what they need. Caseload sizes were reduced. Provided education on the impacts of family separation, bias, systemic racism, and the opportunities to do and be better. They were given a safe space to process this and think differently.

Parents Supporting Parents program are part of the continuum of resources and supports.

Invest in our leadership development and strategy to support leaders to support staff.

• Parents Supporting Parents program

49:08-50:38 - Luke Waldo – This initiative has led to a significant and community-changing outcome that SFTCCC aspires to. What would you leave our audience with that you’ve learned from this movement?

50:39-54:58 - Kate – When we authentically engage with our community and believe in them, real change can happen.

54:59-55:26 – Luke – Thank you.

55:27-55:28 – Kate – Thank you.

55:37-57:45 - 3 Key Takeaways

1. “Build a trust and well-being culture with real intention.” As Kate shared, this culture took years to develop, and ultimately created a safe environment through supportive and responsive leaders and an empowered workforce who speaks up, asks for what they need, and has the capacity to share power and decision-making with the people they serve.
2. “Center a new mindset of thinking about working with families differently, centering families.” This started, as Kate courageously shared, with acknowledging the harm that our systems have done to families. From there, we can move from being punitive to being partners who center families to build trust and begin healing through meaningful change, accountability and committed action.
3. Write your Idea Book and Build your BeeHive. As Kate says, “[Co-design was very different in which the] Parents have truly influenced and driven what our priorities will be moving forward, how we will go about implementing. They have been a regular resource for us to really help share that power of making decisions about what should happen as we work to improve our system and to grow resources in the community.”

57:52- - Luke Waldo – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Bryan Samuels – Chapin Hall

:07-:39 – Bryan Samuels - Is the goal that you’re trying to get engagement? Or is the goal you’re trying to get ownership? And when you think about ownership, then you have to think about going the extra mile.

:42-3:24 - Luke Waldo – Opening, introduction to Bryan Samuels and the Systems Transformation Through Community Leadership report.

3:25-10:15 - Bryan – Disrupting System Mindsets

• When there are power imbalances, you often don’t get meaningful change.
• You also need to shift the mental models away from where systems and communities address negative issues and move to where positive things occur.
• Infrastructure and coordinated planning.
• Continuous Quality Improvement is also needed to check in to see if the process is working for everybody.
• Establishing a common language can build momentum towards change.
• Community needs to have agency as to how resources are used.
• Power-building may start with different levels of power, but it should aspire to share power and decision-making.

10:16-19:15 – Bryan – Investing in Communities

• Marginalization has occurred throughout history due to race and racism and income inequality.
• Investing in resources that will support those community partners who have been marginalized, so that they can participate. Childcare, food, compensation, as they likely worked a full day and are not being paid to participate like the professionals who are.
• Systems need to actively seek out participants to ensure that the community’s diversity is fully represented at the table. Using surveys, taking polls, engaging in different ways to ensure full representation.
• Take the time to build trust.
• Leverage people’s unique strengths.
• Pausing long enough to ensure that participants understand the systems that you are trying to transform.
• Recognition that people need to be compensated for the work that they are contributing.

19:16-28:47 - Bryan – Reimagine Community Engagement

• Engagement is more than a one-time commitment.
• Building relationships and ensuring that community residents understand what is being proposed and giving them the opportunity to set priorities.
• Creating a shared vision for the future.
• Community residents and community providers often have different power and experiences.
• Who does the community hold in high regard? Find them and bring them to the table.

28:48-39:18 - Bryan – Community Leadership

• Getting ownership means that the community sees the change as theirs.
• Are you trying to get engagement or ownership?
• Creating a decision-making and governance structure helps create ownership. A ladder of opportunity acknowledges that not everyone comes to the table with the same experience or knowledge, so this allows for growth that makes them more capable than when they arrived.
• Sometimes we rely too often on champions. You need to move beyond the people that will say the right thing and find the people that will defend the right thing.
• Sharing in the budgeting process. Systems leaders often know what the budget is, but the community itself doesn’t. Maybe we have fewer meetings, so that we can feed people who are attending.
• May need to pause throughout the process to leave the room and allow the community to be in the room with one another to determine if things are progressing towards ownership for them.
• Tenant housing example.

39:19-48:20 - Bryan – Embedding Community Leadership

• Creating a process and space that promotes long-term engagement for the community and ultimately ownership. Infrastructure promotes trust and engagement.
• CQI mechanism is important to check in and validate with the community that things are going well. If they aren’t, then you make changes.
• Create agreements that there will be open communication about what isn’t working.
• Regularity is important so that people know what to expect.

48:21-52:20 - Bryan – Use the podcast as inspiration to dive more deeply into the bulletins and build a strategy from both.

52:21-52:50 - Luke – This conversation has been both inspirational and instructive. Gratitude.

52:52-55:00 – Luke - 3 Key Takeaways

1. Power Sharing is a Foundation for Equity
   “When communities, systems leaders, and providers come together, they start from unequal footing. Moving toward equity at the table requires intentional planning to share power from the very beginning.”
2. Moving from Storytelling to Engagement
   “Engagement isn’t a one-time checkbox; it’s a long-term relationship with a commitment to removing barriers. It’s not just about inviting people to the table—it’s about ensuring they have the time, resources, and support to stay there and contribute fully. Communities need time to process, prioritize, and incubate ideas, creating shared visions that reflect their lived experiences and expertise.”
3. Moving from Engagement to Ownership “Ownership happens when the community sees the strategy not as a system-led initiative but as a reflection of their values, their priorities, and their contributions. It’s a process that builds commitment and sustainability.” As system professionals, we can facilitate and empower that ownership by providing clear and predictable processes for those we serve. Through structure like regular meetings, transparent decision-making, and clear roles, we create a foundation for trust and meaningful participation.

55:05-56:53 - Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Bryan Samuels – Chapin Hall

:11-:33 - Bryan Samuels - I think at the end of the day, there are lots of folks that want change. There aren't a ton of folks that have realized that change. And for that, it often requires some of us to bring forward the best thinking so that people can take advantage of experiences that others have had, so that it might inspire and direct their efforts.

:42-4:55 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to Systems Transformation Through Community Leadership report, Bryan Samuels’ bio, and welcome.

Why is systems transformation needed today in the US?

• Systems Transformation Through Community Leadership – Chapin Hall

4:56-6:33 - Bryan – How can we make services more effective and more equitable? How can systems change to meet the needs of diverse populations?

Chapin Hall was motivated out of a sense that there was a window of opportunity to contribute to the growth and change and direction for the country, and to bring some unique insight into how systems go about changing themselves in order to respond to the needs of a diverse population of families that they serve.

6:34-7:01 – Luke – Can you expand on why Chapin Hall felt that our systems weren’t meeting the diverse needs of our children, families and communities?

7:02-10:54 – Bryan – How do systems take a limited amount of resource and share them equitably? Many of our most marginalized communities have received less services and resources. Over 50% of Black children are investigated by CPS. Families living in poverty are disproportionately investigated by CPS.

Chapin Hall believes that we are living a moment where many want change, so we are providing them with some of the best thinking and tools from across the country to enact that change.

10:55-11:18 – Luke – What does Chapin Hall hope to change or accomplish with the Systems Transformation blueprint? What are some of the key components of the blueprint?

11:19-13:30 – Bryan – Connect the dots between what people were proposing and what we know works. And so we wanted to look at these questions:

Does community engagement and engaging folks with lived experience produce better results?

Does systems change happen when the only people making the change happen are people leading the system right?

Do folks have the skills they need to be successful in the long term?

Do we have the right resources at the table to enable real, meaningful long-term change to occur?

There were lots of lessons learned. So even in failure, there were things that one could conclude about what you would do better the next time.

13:31-13:51 – Luke – Can you expand on those lessons learned?

13:52-17:51 - Bryan – Lessons learned.

1. Top-down approaches to systems change rarely work.
2. Systems change takes time.
3. Community engagement requires greater commitment.
4. Skill-building for community engagement is needed.
5. Shared leadership, decision-making and power are essential to larger change processes.

17:52-18:47 – Luke – Can you outline those 5 key strategies for us and how you came to them?

18:48-20:48 - Bryan – Conducted focus groups and learned from system leaders to inform this process along with reviewing the research. There are 5 principles.

• Disrupt System Mindsets
• Invest in Community
• Reimagine Community Engagement
• Transform Systems with Community in the Lead
• Embed Community Leadership

20:49-21:10 - Luke – Gratitude.

21:11-23:33 - Bryan – “Opportunity to speak to these issues are near and dear to me.” Bryan’s experience that speaks to why this work is so important to him.

23:34-27:03 – Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1. “Even in failure, there were things that one could conclude about what you would do better the next time.” This is such an important reminder that we are doomed to repeat our failures if we fail to make the time to learn from them the first time.
2. “If you want to move a system, you’ve got to have people at every level of that system sharing in the goals and objectives, and committed to achieving the change that one might aspire to. The same is true for community, who should have a role in leadership and decision-making.”
3. “There are lots of folks who want change, there are not a lot of folks who have realized that change, and for that it requires some of us to bring about the best thinking so that people can take advantage of experiences that others have had so that it may inspire and direct their efforts.” May this episode and next week’s deep dive into Chapin Hall’s best thinking serve as inspiration and direction for all of us.

Closing Credits

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Samantha Copus – Jefferson County Parents Supporting Parents

:04–:33 – Samantha Copus – “That's the main piece. That's the secret sauce of peer support. Is connection, is that you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up and tell you, like, Oh, that's okay. How do we move forward? How do you want to move forward? Because nothing you've done changes what I think you're worth, and I'm still going to show up and support you. And I think that's when you start breaking down those barriers and giving these parents, you know, something they couldn't get anywhere else.”

:41-3:29 – Luke – Opening, Samantha’s Bio, and Opening

The history of peer support goes back long before we had formal systems like child protection or mental health.

It wasn’t until fairly recently that these peer support and mentor models were translated to child welfare. So I wanted to learn more about the model that is being implemented in Wisconsin.

Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support program designed in Iowa for parents involved in the Child Protection System that is now implemented here in a handful of counties across Wisconsin.

Samantha Copus is a mother to two children and identifies as a person in long term recovery. Samantha has a variety of lived experiences ranging from mental health, substance use disorders, domestic violence and being a mother who had a child in the child welfare system, all which qualify her now to serve as a parent partner in Jefferson County as part of the Parents Supporting Parents program.

3:29-3:37 – Samantha – Thank you.

3:38-4:01 - Luke – Why are peer support programs such as Parents Supporting Parents needed today?

4:02-5:02 – Samantha – What we were doing without it wasn’t working. Families weren’t feeling heard, weren’t feeling connected.

“You wouldn’t hire a tour guide that’s never been to that destination.”

5:03-6:00 – Luke – I’d like to dive deeper into the ‘why’ behind one of today’s focus areas: social connectedness. Why do you think peer support—and your role as a parent partner in the Parents Supporting Parents program—is so critical to improving social connectedness for the caregivers and parents you serve?"

6:01-9:07 – Samantha – Parenting alone can be isolating. Peer support allows for non-judgmental showing up and walking the journey with the parent.

“It’s the child welfare system, not the parent welfare system. Who’s going to be looking after these parents who are looking out for their children?”

Social connection is the secret sauce that breaks down barriers and allows the parent to share their darkest moments and still know that that person will keep showing up.

9:08-10:04 – Luke – This perspective helps explain why there is growing momentum behind the incorporation of lived experience into our systems and decision-making. It’s difficult to teach the emotional experience of being on the other side of child welfare.

It is important to take that first step of acknowledging that lived experience should be a part of our systems. It’s another to scale it so that it can have a greater impact.

So what does Parenting Supporting Parents do? And what does it hope to accomplish or change in the child welfare system and for parents and caregivers?

10:05-13:20 – Samantha – Parents Supporting Parents (PSP) is an evidence-based program out of Iowa that is voluntary for parents involved in the child welfare system. The program is growing across the state – Rock, Milwaukee, Eau Claire, Jefferson.

We are also looking at it moving further upstream so that we can work with families to prevent child welfare involvement. Rock County hired two parents who previously worked with a PSP partner.

13:21-14:21 - Luke – It can be difficult to scale promising models, so it is promising to hear that Parents Supporting Parents is scaling across the state and within counties. What are some of the key components of your role? How do they impact the parents that you serve?

14:22-19:09 - Samantha – Parent Partners support parents at court, by transporting them to services, processing through what they need during those car rides or on the phone, referring to services. Sharing space. Providing another voice of lived experience during meetings with professionals.

Participate in trainings on foster care placements to provide additional perspective. Peer support in a system shows that we are seeking alignment to find solutions for families.

“I think having peer support embedded in your system is a system that is ready to hold itself accountable.”

19:10-20:54 – Luke – The magic happening during those drives - to appointments or court—when the most honest conversations often take place. It’s something that’s hard to evaluate or formalize or even train staff on in a program, but as you said, these moments are critical for connection and building trust, particularly for people who’ve been isolated by challenges like domestic violence or substance use.

Given how demanding this work can be—requiring, for example, you to revisit some of your darkest moments—how important is it for you to have other parent partners to confide in or lean on when you’re feeling overloaded?"

20:55-24:35 - Samantha – They are the supports I didn’t know that I needed. Parent Partners work closely together.

24:36-25:03 - Luke – Where do you see the greatest impact in your 18 months, almost two years in this role?

25:04-30:27 – Samantha – At the macro-level, it’s been great seeing more and more people interested in this work. At the micro-level, the change that can happen when there’s one healthy, supportive person in someone’s life. “I have had a client tell me that they told me something that they’ve never told anyone before.”

Transformation can happen when people feel connected and believed in. Child welfare workers value her perspective and support of the parent.

“The single most frustrating thing is screaming and feeling like no one can hear you.”

“Having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.”

30:28-33:09 - Luke – Social isolation is a growing crisis. The U.S. Surgeon General’s 2023 report on social isolation and loneliness highlighted this epidemic, and more recently, a report on parents’ mental health revealed that nearly half of all parents feel overwhelmed by stress most days. It’s sobering but underscores the importance of building social connectedness.

• Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Social Isolation - US Surgeon General
• Raj Chetty

With that in mind, I’d love for you to reflect on how your role as a parent partner aligns with our four critical pathways, which are:

1. Social Connectedness;
2. Economic Stability;
3. Community Collaborationwhere we hope to improve coordination among systems and services to better serve families. And finally,
4. Workforce Inclusion and Innovation, which looks at how we might diversify the workforce to reflect those being served and also address challenges like burnout.

Feel free to take this in any direction that you’d like.

33:10-38:02 - Samantha – PSP is evidence-based which has shown to lower reentry rates for those that have had a Parent Partner. Parent Partners assist a lot with Economic Stability by creating bridges to housing and food stability, access to benefits and job opportunities. Lived Experience partners stand between theory and reality.

$2000 prescription metaphor. In theory it works, in practice the patient can’t afford it.

Mandated reporting is mandated supporting in the PSP world.

38:03-39:42 - Luke - How might communities implement a role like parent partners or a program like Parents Supporting Parents?

For those listening who are inspired by this model, what do you believe are the critical conditions for implementing and scaling it?

Beyond that, what other conditions, practices, or opportunities do you think are essential to successfully implement and scale this model? And how do we ensure there are enough parent partners and enough support for you to meet the demand within each community?"

39:43-43:20 - Samantha – Contact Department of Children and Families. This work requires authenticity. Look around your community as there are likely lived experience helpers already doing the work. Make it an equitable relationship with your peers.

• Department of Children and Families

43:21-44:32 - Luke – This conversation has been both inspirational and instructive. It challenges our mental models and hopefully moves us to consider the importance of equity and the role that lived experience brings to it. Gratitude.

44:33-44:52 - Samantha – Thank you!

44:53-45:07 – Luke – Thank you, Samantha!

45:12-46:53 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1. “You wouldn’t hire a tour guide that’s never been to that destination.” As Samantha goes on to say, this doesn’t take away from the knowledge, expertise, and dedication of system staff. Rather, it’s a powerful statement about the deep personal experience and understanding of the system from a parent who has been through it that can provide a complementary perspective to paint a more complete picture.
2. “The secret sauce of peer support is connection, where you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up for you.” As Marlo said in episode 4, we are more than our darkest moments. Standing with someone so they can get through those darkest moments to see their light again can often be the most transformative service we can give.
3. “I think having peer support embedded in your system is a system that is ready to hold itself accountable.” And ““Having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.” There are so many ways in which a system can be held accountable, so that first statement is worth reflecting on for a while. I chose to follow it with the second statement because I feel that we can always be reminded why we, the people that make up these systems, wanted to do this work in the first place.

47:05-49:00 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• CJ Suitt – MC for Wicked Problems Institute Convening
• Sixto Cancel - Think of Us
• Anthony Barrows – Network of Intersectional Professionals
• Bryn Fortune - Fortune Consulting & Nurture Connection Family Network Collaborative

:06-:18 - Opening Clip – Anthony Barrows -– “And for all of you who are really interested in thinking about ‘how do we bring lived experience into our work, my guess is that we are probably already there, and maybe not raising our hands to self-disclose for lots of reasons.”

00:22-2:59 – Luke Waldo – Opening and Introduction to Wicked Problems Institute national convening and the episode’s three speakers.

2:59- CJ Suitt – Introduction of Sixto Cancel and Think of Us.

3:30-25:20 – Sixto Cancel – Opening acknowledgement of the audience and the work being done to elevate lived experience.

• Sixto Cancel’s Slide Deck – Wicked Problems Institute convening

Sixto shares why he started Think of Us as a college student when he realized that he wanted young people to have more control over their child welfare cases than he did as a foster youth who could have lived with family members.

What Think of Us does. Direct practice through Resource Navigators. Research.

Proximate Policy. Sixto provides a powerful example of how Think of Us and young people with lived expertise influenced policy change around kinship care.

He talks about how they reimagined their role and the process away from just telling their stories and providing recommendations to becoming part of the prioritization and decision-making processes.

• National Convening on Kinship Care – Children’s Bureau

What does it mean to be an Ambassador?

Going beyond traditional diversity.

How is it that you take your lens while also connecting with the young people that are living it today?

Great story about how the Ambassador’s work. Partnered with an agency, Unicorn Solutions, and asked “What can this federal agency do? And what can it not do?”

• Unicorn Solutions

You have to have resource navigation for the ambassadors.

Crowdsourcing. Surveyed thousands of people, themed the responses, created long- and short-form documents sharing the themes, and then compared with Congressional Coalition on Adoption Institute for Foster Club and other leaders’ crowdsourcing and research. “This kind of work matters and will pay off…”

• Congressional Coalition on Adoption Institute
• Foster Club

All this prep work allows for the Ambassadors to identify policy and strategy priorities based on what is possible.

Solid process description starting with game night, relationship building, then trust building.

Sixto finishes with a Michelle Alexander quote that is powerful about family separation.

Follows it with Bryan Stevenson and the importance of proximity. “How do we integrate rather than engage?”

Goal of Think of Us is to serve as an R&D center that shares its lessons learned to be scaled.

25:21-25:31 – Takkeem Morgan - “What would you like to see replicated?”

25:32-27:55 - Sixto - Integration instead of engagement.

27:56-28:15 - Luke – Introduction of Anthony Barrows.

28:16-28:28 - CJ asks about Intersectional Professionals.

28:29-53:00– Anthony Barrows - How the world experiences us based on our identities can shape how we engage with the world.

• Anthony Barrow’s Slide Deck – Wicked Problems Institute convening
• Who are Intersectional Professionals? - Anthony Barrows

Anthony’s introduction to himself and his work.

“I’ve been on the inside of these systems. I’ve seen how they can positively transform people’s lives when they work and chew up and spit out people when they don’t work.”

How do we make key systems deliver better for individuals?

Case Study - Strong example of the disconnect between the content experts from the context experts in San Francisco dropout study. Interesting content regarding social connectedness.

• Project Evident
• Ideas42

We asked the people closest to the problem. They identified different reasons for their academic challenges compared to the professionals’ reasons.

How is Lived Experience used in our work today? Who has control of the outcomes?

• Organizationally-Bound
• Research-Driven
• Design-Focused
• Advocacy-Oriented

Anthony is going to give a different view on how Lived Experience can be used. He provides the Venn diagram of the Intersectional Professional.

• People with lived experience of a system
• People doing work, research or advocacy in a system
• People with professional and/or academic training relevant to a system

Why does it matter? “I believe that intersectional professionals should be leading systems change. As dual experts, insiders with outsider experience.”

“We are probably already in your organization, but may not be raising our hands to let you know.”

Why did we decide to do this work? “This work can be isolating… so well-being is very important.” Five values that guide the work.

• Liberation
• Autonomy
• Creativity
• Excellence
• Solidarity

Summarizing his paper, The Experts by Experience.

• The Experts by Experience

Process.

Three Takeaways.

Best practices.

How to implement this model.

5 Integration Takeaways.

• Community knowledge must be treated as its own form of valuable expertise
• Effective collaboration requires intentional investment of resources
• Organizational leadership is a prerequisite for successful collaboration
• People engaged in design should represent intra-community diversity
• Create infrastructure and explicit roles that enable meaningful power-sharing

The Peer Health Exchange case study.

• Peer Health Exchange

53:01-53:25 - Luke - How might we more effectively support those folks, especially early in that kind of process or transition?

53:26-54:56 - Anthony - Send them to the Network of Intersectional Professionals. Build supportive cohorts of more intersectional professionals.

54:57-55:17 - Luke – Introduction of Bryn Fortune.

55:18-56:09 - CJ – Introduction to Bryn.

56:10-1:11:38 – Bryn Fortune – Lived experience as a mother of a child with special needs who had 85 surgeries and grew up 40 years ago inside a Children’s Hospital in Detroit. While she had privilege, many of the people she met there did not, so she used her lived experience and what she saw others experience to advocate for change with the hospital leadership.

• Bryn Fortune’s Slide Deck – Wicked Problems Institute convening

“Six degrees of separation of privilege” speaks to how lived experience brings a needed perspective that system leaders often don’t get to understand gaps.

Working in Alaska currently because the community has the highest child welfare referral rate in the country from their Head Start and early childhood programs.

How this model was developed.

• Sherry Arnstein
• A Ladder of Citizen Participation – Sherry Arnstein
• Spectrum of Community Engagement to Ownership – Facilitating Power - Rosa Gonzalez
• Who are Intersectional Professionals? - Anthony Barrows

A flavor of the What the model does.

Redesigning structures.

Pregnancy to 1000 days.

Working with 6 diverse populations and regions in the country to learn from.

Identifying Intersectional Professionals who were working with the distinct populations.

Bryn’s description of her program, how it was informed, and how it was implemented.

• Reach Out and Read
• Living Room Language

“What we learned about equity is that 4 out of the 6 communities didn’t know what it meant.”

Bryn’s comments about relationships and the value of Parent Partners was powerful as she states that “there is a lot of mistrust with our systems for many good reasons”.

Steering Committee made up of Lived Experience experts that are now working with Harvard researchers.

Steering Committee members bring their own Lived Experience, and they also represent their communities in a way that they are speaking to what would help the collective behind them.

Historically, well-intentioned professionals have often treated this work tokenistically.

“This is all very adaptable…” Lived experience changes over time and we need to honor those changes.

1:11:39-1:13:42 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1. Diversity matters. As Sixto and Bryn both shared from their work, racial, gender, sexual orientation, and age diversity is critical to consider when working with lived experience partners. Equally important is their diversity of experience as someone who has been separated from their parents will have a very different experience with child welfare than a foster parent, even if they have worked with the same system or workers.
2. Any one of those experiences can’t encapsulate the 360 degree life that we’ve lived. As Anthony shared, someone who has experience in the child welfare system is not defined by that experience, certainly not alone. Each person has a rich history, yes, often informed by their experiences with systems like child welfare, public schools and housing, and also by their experiences with joy, family, and triumph. Let’s honor and learn from all those experiences, from the whole person that sits before us.
3. So, how should we bring lived experience into our work? I share Anthony’s guess that Intersectional Professionals are already there, but may not be raising their hands to self-disclose for lots of reasons. So how might we develop the culture and community within our organizations to support and empower those with lived experience much like the Network of Intersectional Professionals so that they may bring their whole selves safely and confidently into their work? How might we invest in lived experience through intentional processes, roles, and support systems like the Family Network Collaborative model and its Steering Committee or the Ambassador model that Sixto described? How might we move away from the transactional approaches of yesterday and towards the foundation, capacity and equity-building approaches that our experts shared today?

1:14:00-1:15:53 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Marlo Nash – Children’s Home Society of America

:00-:15 – Marlo Nash - “It’s really important to understand that the information we understand through people’s experiences is knowledge that can be used to change systems, to make practices and policies better.”

:22–3:33 – Luke Waldo – Opening, Marlo’s Bio, and Welcome

Lived experience, lived expertise, context experts… For the past many years, we have seen a movement towards including or elevating or integrating the voice of lived experience into our work. But what does that really mean? What does that mean for the person that has lived through the child welfare system? What does that mean for the people working in the system? What are we trying to accomplish or change, and how might we do this better?

If you have considered any of these questions or find yourself at a loss as to what the answers might or should be, then you’re in the right place. Over the next three episodes, we will be exploring these questions, many lessons learned as our guests worked through these questions, and the strategies designed and implemented by people with lived experience who, today, are leading others with lived experience.

Today’s episode, along with next week’s, will share what was learned during this year’s Wicked Problems Institute national convening titled “Unlocking the Power of Lived Experience through True Collaboration,” hosted by Children’s Home Society of America or CHSA and the Jordan Institute for Families at the University of North Carolina School of Social Work.

Today you will hear from Marlo Nash, managing director of CHSA, who led the planning and execution of the convening.

• Wicked Problems Institute 2024
• Jordan Institute for Families

3:34-3:57 – Marlo Nash – As the podcast’s biggest fan, it’s a pleasure being here.

3:58-4:45 – Luke – Why do we need to give more attention and action to integrating lived expertise into our systems and organizations?

4:46-8:01 – Marlo – Why we need to create the answers by providing safe spaces to learn. Lived experience is knowledge that informs how we can improve systems, practices and policies.

Overarching theme of Building Equitable Pathways to Child and Family Well-being, and this year the theme was Unlocking the Power of Lived Experience through True Collaboration.

“How do we do this for real, for real.”

8:02-8:37 – Luke – Recognizing Marlo and CHSA for pulling off an inspiring virtual Wicked event. What are objectives and aspirations of Wicked? What does it hope to change?

8:38-12:40 – Marlo – CHSA’s mission and vision, and how Wicked supports this. Our systems and organizations have historically underappreciated the contributions of lived experience partners. Six conditions of systems change. Dig deeper in practice around integrating lived experience into our work.

The current transactional state of Lived Experience in our systems practices.

People with lived experience are willing to share their stories, often traumatic, but also their expertise to make changes that will improve outcomes for children and families now and for future generations.

• Six Conditions of Systems Change - FSG

12:41-13:45 - Luke – It’s important to acknowledge that we haven’t done this right or even caused harm. What is powerful about CHSA and Wicked is that we can acknowledge these challenges together across states and organizations.

13:46-14:08 - Marlo – Co-creating with lived experts is exciting, but can also retraumatize.

14:09-14:22 – Luke – What happened at Wicked this year?

14:23-23:38 - Marlo – Wicked is the event in which our 23 state members bring a team of public and private partners, funders, lived experience partners, so that we can hear our unique perspectives from one another.

Overview of CHSA, Wicked and the value of sharing unique perspectives from different sectors and roles.

Overview of the format of the day and introduces our 3 plenary speakers and their expertise and focus.

• Bryn Fortune - Nurture Connection Family Network Collaborative
• Sixto Cancel – Think of Us
• Anthony Barrows – Network of Intersectional Professionals

Synthesizers and their roles.

Themes that came up throughout the day:

Power imbalance. Put people and how they are feeling at the center. See empathetically. Move from storytelling and consultation to prioritization of informed-decision making. House metaphor and paint colors and curtains. Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear. Relationships and community are the heart of doing this work.

23:39-24:33 - Luke – How might we implement these lessons learned into our practice, organizations, and systems?

24:34-26:05 - Marlo – Wicked has a graphic illustrator who captures the themes throughout the day. We encourage you to use it for ideas and inspiration.

• Graphic Illustration – Wicked Problems Institute 2024
• A Visual Approach – Graphic Illustrators

26:06-26:45 - Luke – How do you see CHSA’s work and this year’s Wicked aligning with our SFTCCC Critical Pathways?

• Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities Critical Pathways

26:46-34:26 - Marlo – Engaging with Lived Experts requires that we center social connectedness. People are made up of lots of different parts, and we often see the worst parts of people as they are experiencing the darkest moments of their lives when they come to child welfare, for example. We must recognize that they are a whole person and they have many strong parts that we aren’t seeing right now. Their social connectedness and belonging are critical in understanding their whole self.

Workforce Inclusion and Innovation aligns well with the concept of Intersectional Professionals. Everyone wants appropriate boundaries to be set so that they can feel safe in their work. Everyone wants the support and resources needed to be their best self at work. How do we create those conditions that will make our workplaces positive spaces where they can be their whole selves?

Lived experience can illuminate what we really need to hear.

34:27-35:26 - Luke – I have seen how effective advocacy with policymakers by showing the data and research that is also supported by the lived experience of patients can be. Our mental models often allow us to have greater empathy for a family who has a child with cancer than a family who is involved in the child welfare system because of poverty.

35:27-38:04 - Marlo – “Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear.” People with Lived Experience shouldn’t be paraded in front of policymakers, but rather put in a position much like an Ambassador – see Sixto next week – where they are an engaged part of the process and impact.

38:05-38:49 - Luke – How might we implement some of these strategies to advance the vision of Wicked and CHSA?

38:50-48:53 - Marlo – Encourages listeners to check out the Show Notes and the graphic illustration. Engage with partners with Lived Experience and Wicked participants to deepen knowledge and strategies around how to integrate lived experience into your work.

Pairing lived experience with research and science. Dean Ramona talked about lived experience as “a way of knowing”. Research Agenda on the 21st Century Child and Family Well-being. CHSA is a network of Scholar Practitioners who seek to confront the Wicked Problems in our systems.

What policies – both legislative and organizational – need to be changed?

We ideate so that we can work backwards from that big vision. Increasing authentic engagement with people with lived experience to make decisions together.

“Marrying data, science, service, research, and advocacy with humanity and equity.”

Examining mental models around how we engage with people with lived experience. What mental models exist in our community?

Wicked is not a day of learning, but a medium to stay in community all year long.

• The National Research Agenda for a 21st Century Child and Family Well-Being System
• Unsticking Stuck Mental Models – Collective Impact Forum

48:54-51:27 - Luke – My hope is that Wicked and this podcast will have ripple effects on our listeners. Wicked inspired me to build new relationships with partners including partners in New Jersey and Delaware to learn from one another and scale our work. Thank you for your partnership and vision.

51:28-53:30 - Marlo – Thank you for your work on this podcast that has challenged us to think about our mental models.

53:31-54:46 – Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1. We need to move away from transactional relationships where people with lived experience are asked to share their darkest moments or to briefly consult after most decisions have already been made, and towards building authentic relationships that bring the whole person into decision making from the foundation to the curtains.
2. Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear. Humility and the ability to acknowledge the harm that our systems have caused are at the heart of building trust and learning how to do better through partnership with families.
3. How might we create the conditions within our workspaces where intersectional professionals and community partners with lived experience can be their whole selves? Marlo asked this important question today. Come back next week to hear Anthony Barrows, Sixto Cancel, and Bryn Fortune answer it.

54:58-56:52 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Email Luke Waldo at lwaldo@childrenswi.org to share how you are changing the conditions so that children and families can thrive.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Allison Thompson – Center for Guaranteed Income Research
• Blake Roberts Crall – Madison Forward Fund

:00-:09 - Allison Thompson – “So there’s absolutely a way to address child poverty at the national level. It’s about the will, right?”

:17–5:36 – Luke Waldo – Opening, Bios, and Welcome

In the first half of last century, American children and families faced a crisis. Invisible threats paralyzed society as viruses such as polio paralyzed children, claimed lives, and left communities in despair as they searched for solutions. In response, widespread quarantine shut down schools and public places to prevent the disease from spreading; and iron lungs were used to treat people already impacted by severe respiratory paralysis. But then came a groundbreaking prevention strategy through vaccines, massive public health campaigns, and the mobilization of resources to protect every community and get people back to living their lives without fear. Vaccination efforts eradicated polio from the United States 50 years ago and drastically reduced the burden of other deadly diseases, saving millions of lives, restoring hope for the future, and creating a blueprint for how bold prevention measures can transform society.

Today, children and families face another crisis. In 2022, over 7 million reports of alleged child abuse or neglect were made to Child Protective Services. 3 million families were subsequently investigated, and around 85% of them were living at or below 200% of the federal poverty line. Ultimately, of those 7 million reports, 550,000 were substantiated for maltreatment, or somewhere around 1 of every 10.

How might we apply a similar public health approach that was used to address our polio crisis to address this crisis where too many families are overloaded by stress and vulnerable to child neglect, CPS investigations, and family separation? As we heard last episode from Jennifer Jones, Prevent Child Abuse America has a bold vision for what this could look like: an aligned and comprehensive primary prevention ecosystem that would empower all children and families to live a purposeful and happy life with hope for the future. One of its core aspirations is promoting economic stability, so that all families have the quality housing, childcare, and healthcare that we all need to thrive.

In this episode, we’ll explore how guaranteed income programs and other economic supports that alleviate financial stress might help us move further upstream as an important part of that prevention ecosystem. Over the past six months, I have met many leaders of guaranteed income programs across the country. This journey began when the Bridge Project arrived here in Milwaukee to provide unconditional cash assistance to 100 low-income, pregnant mothers in Milwaukee for the next three years. Today, you will hear my conversation with two of these leaders who I’ve learned from on this journey, Blake Roberts Crall and Dr. Allison Thompson, as we explore the potential of guaranteed income programs as part of this primary prevention ecosystem.

5:37-5:46 – Blake Roberts Crall and Allison Thompson – Thank you for having us.

5:47-6:03 – Luke Waldo – Why are guaranteed income or direct cash transfer programs needed today?

6:04-7:47 – Blake Roberts Crall – “And I really believe that our social safety net in this country plays a huge, huge role in helping to ensure financial security for our families and their well-being. So that's a really important part of our social infrastructure that we need, and it does a lot for families um and for children. And at the same time, um there's still so much more to do because there are families that are still struggling. We know that people are not able to make ends meet.

And I think that there's an opportunity to look at our social safety net and figure out ways that we can make it better, make it more accessible, more inclusive, and provide more resources to families. um It seems pretty crazy to me that you can be working in this country full time or working more than full time and still not be able to pay all of your bills and still to be struggling financially. The term working poor, we hear that a lot. That's literally people are working, but still under that poverty line. So for me, there's a lot of opportunity to be doing something different and really to think about um how can we build systems of care and well-being for everyone. And I think guaranteed income or basic income is one possible tool that we can add in our toolbox.”

• What is Guaranteed Income? – Madison Forward Fund

7:48-7:50 – Luke – Same question to Allison.

7:51-10:41 - Allison Thompson - One in eight Americans live in poverty. And even with a full-time job, most families working minimum wage jobs still can't meet their basic needs. In fact, across many US cities, a parent of two children making the minimum wage would need to work between two to four minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet without benefits. And even with benefits, a parent working a full-time minimum wage job with two children typically experiences a $3,000 to $5,000 gap each month between their basic cost of living and their income and benefits.

To make matters worse, nearly half of all families with annual incomes of less than $25,000 a year also experience pretty significant income volatility, which means that their income each month is prone to both rapid and unpredictable change.

This might be because families are working hourly-waged jobs or doing gig work with unpredictable hours, or it could be that their jobs do not provide paid time off, leading to decreased income when parents' children get sick. But this income volatility puts families in really tough positions. Each month, families are often forced to make hard decisions to survive, decisions about paying utility bills or purchasing more costly, healthy foods. paying co-pays for their own medication versus paying their rent. And the bottom line is that neither the labor market nor the social safety net in the US is sufficient to keep families out of poverty. More is needed.

Increasingly, we also know that economic and material hardship are significant predictors of child welfare involvement. This shows up as neglect often in the child welfare system. penalizing families for not having the means or resources necessary to make up for these market failures or government shortcomings. This type of neglect suggests that addressing inadequate economic resources should be one of the core set of tools for families when aiming to prevent child welfare involvement and out-of-home placement. So guaranteed income has emerged as an evidence-informed strategy to alleviate some of the burden that families bear as a result of the market failures and safety net shortcomings.”

Guaranteed income definition.

10:42-10:49 – Luke – Blake, what is the Madison Forward Fund and what does it hope to change or accomplish?

10:50-15:56 – Blake Roberts Crall – The Madison Forward Fund is a research program that piloted the impacts of guaranteed income on the lives of low-income people.

• Madison Forward Fund
• Mayors for a Guaranteed Income
• Institute for Research on Poverty
• Center for Guaranteed Income Research

15:57-17:46 – Luke – It’s important to acknowledge the stigma and mistrust around some of our safety net systems as it has led to billions of dollars left on the table as reported by Matthew Desmond and others recently. If people are embarrassed to access or distrustful of anti-poverty programs, then they aren’t achieving their objectives.

• Poverty, by America – Matthew Desmond

17:47-25:06 - Allison – Recurring, unconditional and unrestricted. Recipients can trust that it will be available to them during the period that it has been promised compared to many conditional and restricted public benefits.

Participants spend the money on basic needs.

Guaranteed income also offers opportunities for economic mobility.

Impacts of pandemic on economic stability.

19,000 participants involved in these programs that are being researched by CGIR.

Positive impacts on people’s economic stability and mobility.

• Stanford Basic Income Lab
• Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration
• Center for Guaranteed Income Research
• American Rescue Plan Act funding Guaranteed Income programs

25:07-26:58 - Luke – Poverty does not equal neglect; however, families living in poverty are much more likely to be investigated by Child Protective Services. So guaranteed income may reduce the likelihood that a family is investigated by CPS.

How does GI align with our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative?

• The Bridge Project – Zilber Family Foundation

26:59-32:01 - Blake – While Guaranteed Income is not a silver bullet, it can improve economic stability and social connections.

Positive impacts on people’s mental health and stress levels. GI allows participants to provide more for their kids, pay rent, cover child care costs. Participant stories are available on the Madison Forward Fund website.

When caregivers can meet their own needs, they can show up better for their kids.

• Participant Stories – Madison Forward Fund

32:02-32:55 – Luke – People’s stories to illustrate the data is always helpful and powerful. Same question to Allison.

32:56-39:38 - Allison – How might guaranteed income be a child welfare intervention? Labor market and social safety net are inadequate to help families meet their basic needs for too many families. Guaranteed income assumes that families know best how to care for their children.

New York child welfare pilot. Los Angeles County pilot with youth that have aged out of child care.

• New York State Direct Cash Transfer Research Pilot
• Breathe: Los Angeles County’s Guaranteed Income Program

39:39-40:55 – Luke – How might we implement these models into our communities?

40:56-45:57 – Blake – The mechanics and administration of guaranteed income programs are not complicated. There is more and more data improving the evidence base and showing its effectiveness. We need to do more basic education about what guaranteed income is and what it can accomplish. GI is a policy choice that will need to be made to help pay for it.

45:58-47:46 - Luke – Education and mental model shifts will be important to policy and funding changes that support guaranteed income programs. How might guaranteed income programs lead to cost savings if it leads to a reduction in child welfare spending?

47:47-50:20 - Allison – Research on guaranteed income is nascent. There is a growing body of evidence. Thinking more about cost-benefit analysis. The Child Tax Credit expansion during COVID, which mirrors a guaranteed income program, cut the child poverty rate in half.

• The Anti-Poverty Effects of the Expanded Child Tax Credit – Brookings

50:21-50:31 - Luke – When we have the will, our policies can have a profound impact.

50:32-52:25 - Blake – Many states have implemented a state child tax credit. We don’t have that here in Wisconsin. Wisconsin Farmers Union has interest in guaranteed income to support agricultural communities in the state.

• Wisconsin Governor’s Health Equity Council Report
• Wisconsin Farmers Union

52:26-52:50 - Luke Waldo – Closing and Gratitude

52:51-52:57 - Allison – Thank you.

52:58-53:08 – Blake – Thank you.

53:09-56:34 - Luke Waldo - 3 Key Takeaways

1. “People are working hard, and yet they still can’t make ends meet.” 75 years ago, we didn’t look down on people who were impacted by polio, we came together as a society to keep our kids safe by creating a solution to prevent it. How might we change the conditions today for the working poor as we did for families and communities generations ago so that they can thrive?
2. “Think about the freedom of choice, trust, and self-determination as a way of bringing some trust back to our social safety net and welfare systems.” As Blake and Dr. Thompson shared, programs like guaranteed income that are predictable and unconditional, parents and caregivers have shown us that they not only know what’s best for their kids, they do what’s best for their kids by investing in their basic needs like food, housing, childcare, and education.
3. “There’s a way to address poverty, it’s about the will.” Whether it’s through expanded Child Tax Credits that have shown to cut childhood poverty in half in a single year, or through increased minimum wage or guaranteed income programs, there are policy and systems changes that have proven to combat poverty and improve family economic stability and mobility. So how might we see the systemic issues of family poverty as we did with our public health crises from a century ago, so that the conditions might change for overloaded families through effective Family Prosperity policies and systems changes?

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Email Luke Waldo at lwaldo@childrenswi.org to share how you are changing the conditions so that children and families can thrive.

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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jennifer Jones – Prevent Child Abuse America

:05-:14 - Jennifer Jones – “We must disrupt the status quo and advance equitable access to opportunities and environments that all families need to thrive.”

:22–4:35 – Luke Waldo – Welcome, Opening, and Jennifer Jones’ bio.

39,325 reports of suspected child neglect were made to Wisconsin Child Protective Services. In other words, every single day, 108 people across Wisconsin felt worried enough about a child to take the time to report them with the belief that they or their family would receive some support or intervention to ensure that the child was safe and well. Of those nearly 40,000 reports, 88% were unsubstantiated for maltreatment. In fact, over 26,000 or two out of every three reports of neglect were screened out, which means that they don't receive any form of service or response to the concerns that the person that reported them had for them in the first place. These are often reports of struggles with economic insecurity, as 85% of families investigated by child protective services are living at or below 200% of the federal poverty line.

So the question becomes, how might we create a better alternative to reporting overloaded families to child protective services so that they receive the targeted support and resources that they need to thrive? How might we empower teachers, police officers, social workers, doctors, and nurses who are on the front lines of supporting overloaded families to build trust through referrals and connections to prevention services and resources, rather than suspicion through reports to Child Protective Services?

4:36-4:44 – Jennifer Jones – Thank you for the invitation to join the pod again.

4:45-4:56 – Luke - Why is a Primary Prevention System needed today in the US?

4:57-11:25 – Jennifer – Why we need a Primary Prevention System in the US.

In 2022 over 3 million children were investigated for child abuse or neglect in this country, and of those children, over 550,000 were considered victims of child abuse and neglect, and 74% of those were for neglect. Almost 40% of all children in this country are subjected to a child welfare investigation. For white kids, it's 28% and for black kids, it's significantly higher, at 53% so over half of black children in this country experience a child welfare investigation before they are 18.

Families lacking income and resources for basic needs are often referred to the child welfare system for neglect, and we know that this disproportionately impacts black and indigenous families. We know that too many families are being subjected to harmful investigations. We know that too many families are being separated due to a range of things that could be addressed earlier, like poverty. There's great disproportionality, especially for black children and families, and overall, there is too little investment in prevention in this country.

We don't just want to prevent kids and families from coming to the attention of our nation's child welfare system. We want to reach them before they are in crisis, so they have what they need when they need it in the communities in which they live. We want to ensure that all children and families are living a purposeful and happy life with hope for the future. That is the heart and the foundation of our new theory of change.

We believe that we need a drastically different approach to supporting families, ensuring what they have to what they need to be happy, healthy and economically secure. We must change how our society values and cares for all children and families. And in doing this, we will write the next chapter of primary prevention in this country.

• A Theory of Change for Primary Prevention in the US – Prevent Child Abuse America

11:26-11:58 - Luke – What so many families who are feeling overloaded by the weight of poverty or social isolation need is someone to lessen that load. So how might a primary prevention ecosystem do that? What does Prevent Child Abuse America hope to change or accomplish with this theory of change?

11:59-16:33 – Jennifer Jones – What the PCAA Theory of Change for a Primary Prevention System aspires to accomplish, its North Star, and its process.

• Building a Shared Understanding and Shifting Mindsets
• Policies and Practices
• Collective Responsibility

Theory of Change principles and 5 strategies.

• Transform the narrative
• Center families
• Build evidence and advocate
• Activate adaptive action
• Grow human and financial capacity

16:34-17:44 – Luke – How might we implement the Theory of Change?

17:45-21:05 – Jennifer – It creates a Primary Prevention strategy for everyone across the country. Plug and Play Theory of Change. The flexibility for each community is critical as this is not a “one size fits all” solution. Unify and align a diverse group of actors.

CHSA has adopted the North Star, which shows the collective energy.

• Children’s Home Society of America
• PCAA Theory of Change – Plug and Play

21:06-21:17 - Luke – Thank you, Jennifer.

21:18-22:09 – Jennifer – Thank you, Luke.

22:10-24:02 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways.

1. Many of the pieces already exist for a Primary Prevention Ecosystem, but they are not yet aligned or comprehensive. So how might we work together across primary prevention programs such as Home Visiting, Family Resource Centers economic and concrete support programs with systems like housing, early education, and healthcare to create greater alignment and shared language? As Jennifer shared, if this alignment were to create a comprehensive Ecosystem and Prevent Child Abuse America were to achieve its goal, we could divert 50 million kids over the next 25 years from CPS and keep them with their families who would have what they need to thrive.
2. Center families in the decision-making process. More specifically, how might we learn from families who have benefitted from prevention services and resources so that they didn’t have to experience deeper end systems like Child Protective Services? As we will hear throughout this season, we must move beyond transactional relationships with people with lived experience, and move into authentic trust and power-sharing that leads to better informed decision-making.
3. Individuals and organizations that haven’t seen themselves as contributing to child maltreatment prevention need to be a part of this prevention ecosystem. I have been inspired by the participation of housing and anti-poverty advocates, educators, and police officers in our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative as they see their role and potential partnerships that may lead to preventing child neglect and family separation. After today’s conversation with Jennifer, I hope that many more of you will join us so that all children and families may live a purposeful and happy life with hope for the future.

24:08-25:32 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Email Luke Waldo at lwaldo@childrenswi.org to share how you are changing the conditions so that children and families can thrive.

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Over the past 30 years, we have seen a 60% decline in physical and sexual abuse of children across the United States. At the same time, we have only seen a 10% decline in child neglect. We have also seen poverty remain stubbornly persistent while learning that 85% of families investigated by the Child Protective Services live at or below 200% of the federal poverty line. As we have learned over these years about the positive impacts of social connections on our well-being and ability to manage stress and crises, we have also seen social isolation grow across our country.

These realities have motivated us over the past three years of our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and the first two seasons of this podcast series to build a shared understanding of neglect, its underlying roots causes, and the social and systemic critical pathways we may take to advance promising solutions.

This year and this season of the podcast, we confront these complex realities where, too often, overloaded families are expected to beat the odds that have been stacked against them; and we explore how we might change the conditions so that we improve the odds for children and families to thrive.

To do that, we must ask, how might we transform our systems, create a prevention ecosystem, and center families as the experts they are and the changemakers they should be?

And why now?

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jennifer Jones – Prevent Child Abuse America
• Kate Luster – Rock County Department of Human Services
• Allison Thompson – Center for Guaranteed Income Research
• Samantha Copus – Jefferson County Parents Supporting Parents
• Blake Roberts Crall – Madison Forward Fund
• Bryan Samuels – Chapin Hall
• Anthony Barrows – Network of Intersectional Professionals
• Marlo Nash – Children’s Home Society of America
• Laura Radel – US Department of Health and Human Services
• Jaclyn Gilstrap – A Visual Approach
• Norma Hatfield – Generations United
• Andry Sweet, CEO, Children's Home Society of Florida
• Ramona Denby-Brinson – University of North Carolina School of Social Work

:00–2:33 - Luke Waldo

Over the past 30 years, we have seen a 60% decline in physical and sexual abuse of children across the United States. At the same time, we have only seen a 10% decline in child neglect. We have also seen poverty remain stubbornly persistent while learning that 85% of families investigated by the Child Protective Services live at or below 200% of the federal poverty line. As we have learned over these years about the positive impacts of social connections on our well-being and ability to manage stress and crises, we have also seen social isolation grow across our country.

These realities have motivated us over the past three years of our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and the first two seasons of this podcast series to build a shared understanding of neglect, its underlying roots causes, and the social and systemic critical pathways we may take to advance promising solutions.

This year and this season of the podcast, we confront these complex realities where, too often, overloaded families are expected to beat the odds that have been stacked against them; and we explore how we might change the conditions so that we improve the odds for children and families to thrive.

To do that, we must ask, how might we transform our systems, create a prevention ecosystem, and center families as the experts they are and the changemakers they should be?

And why now?

• Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities Initiative

2:34-7:29 – Jennifer Jones

In 2022, over 3 million children were investigated for child maltreatment. There is great disproportionality for Black children as 50% will be investigated in their childhood by the child welfare system. We invest too little in prevention.

We know that child welfare reform is happening across the country to provide better outcomes for children and families already in the system or entering today. But we also know that we have to move further upstream.

We also know that social connectedness and Positive Childhood Experiences (PCEs) are essential to long-term well-being. So we don’t want to just prevent bad things from happening, we want to promote PCEs.

• Positive Childhood Experiences – Jennifer Jones

We need to address the context within which children and families live rather than just focusing on the individual challenges. We need to address the systemic issues.

7:30-8:27 – Kate Luster

“In Rock County, about 22% of our families in in involved in child welfare services are Black African-American families, whereas only 7% of our county population is represented by Black families. And so we have overrepresentation at sort of every step of every level of decision making within the child welfare continuum, reports to access screened-in reports, investigations, separations, and out of home placements, et cetera. So we know we are we're not alone in that. Those are statistics that show up ah across the state and across the country. And we feel committed to prioritizing addressing those disparities in our work moving forward.”

8:28-10:06 - Allison Thompson

One in eight Americans live in poverty. And even with a full-time job, most families working minimum wage jobs still can't meet their basic needs. In fact, across many US cities, a parent of two children making the minimum wage would need to work between two to four minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet without benefits. And even with benefits, a parent working a full-time minimum wage job with two children typically experiences a $3,000 to $5,000 gap each month between their basic cost of living and their income and benefits.

To make matters worse, nearly half of all families with annual incomes of less than $25,000 a year also experience pretty significant income volatility, which means that their income each month is prone to both rapid and unpredictable change.

Each month, families are often forced to make hard decisions to survive, decisions about paying utility bills or purchasing more costly, healthy foods. paying co-pays for their own medication versus paying their rent. And the bottom line is that neither the labor market nor the social safety net in the US is sufficient to keep families out of poverty. More is needed.

10:07-10:30 – Samantha Copus

“It’s the child welfare system, not the parent welfare system. Who’s going to be looking after these parents who are looking out for their children?”

10:31-11:11 - Allison Thompson

Increasingly, we also know that economic and material hardship are significant predictors of child welfare involvement. This shows up as neglect often in the child welfare system. penalizing families for not having the means or resources necessary to make up for these market failures or government shortcomings. This type of neglect suggests that addressing inadequate economic resources should be one of the core set of tools for families when aiming to prevent child welfare involvement and out-of-home placement. So guaranteed income has emerged as an evidence-informed strategy to alleviate some of the burden that families bear as a result of the market failures and safety net shortcomings.”

11:13-12:18 - Blake Roberts Crall

“And I really believe that our social safety net in this country plays a huge, huge role in helping to ensure financial security for our families and their well-being. So that's a really important part of our social infrastructure that we need, um and it does it does a lot for families and for children. And at the same time, there's still so much more to do because there are families that are still struggling. We know that people are not able to make ends meet.

And I think that there's an opportunity to look at our social safety net and figure out ways that we can make it better, make it more accessible, more inclusive, and provide more resources to families. It seems pretty crazy to me that you can be working in this country full time or working more than full time and still not be able to pay all of your bills and still to be struggling financially. The term working poor, we hear that a lot. That's literally people are working, but still under that poverty line. So for me, there's a lot of opportunity to be doing something different and really to think about how can we build systems of care and well-being for everyone. And I think guaranteed income or basic income is one possible tool that we can add in our toolbox.”

• What is Guaranteed Income? – Madison Forward Fund

12:19-13:16 - Jennifer Jones

The Theory of Change shifts to building and aligning a prevention ecosystem to create the conditions so all children and families can thrive. We want them to have what they need, when they need it, in the places where they need it.

• Theory of Change for Primary Prevention in the United States – Prevent Child Abuse America

13:17-14:34 – Bryan Samuels

People come upon good ideas, they spend as much time as they can, but then often have to move on. After George Floyd’s murder, there was a moment where real change was demanded around equity for our communities. So Chapin Hall began focusing on how authentic systems transformation through community engagement occurs.

• System Transformation through Community Leadership – Chapin Hall

14:36-15:30 - Luke Waldo

Why is the authentic integration of Lived Experience into our systems and organizations’ decision-making and power-sharing needed today?

15:32-15:46 - Anthony Barrows

“I’ve been on the inside of these systems. I’ve seen how they can positively transform people’s lives when they work and chew up and spit out people when they don’t work.”

15:47-15:55 - Samantha Copus

“The single most frustrating thing is screaming and feeling like no one can hear you.”

15:57-16:58 – Marlo Nash

The current transactional state of Lived Experience in our systems practices. We need to move away from this, and yet there isn’t a guidebook or crystal-clear path.

16:59-17:41 - Laura Radel

“But there is a lot of excitement in many of the groups around the expansion of authentic engagement. I think that was a key theme that was coming out. However, folks are struggling within their organizations about making a true culture shift, and moving from a rallying cry to real action, more upstream in our processes and activities, and moving from storytelling and commenting mostly on the back end and on tentative decisions that our organizations have already started to make instead of engaging folks early and often, and with true power-sharing from the beginning.”

17:42-18:43 – Jaclyn Gilstrap

How do we address the harm when it happens, not if it happens? How do we do this for real, for real? People with lived experience confront many barriers, so how do we address this?

18:44-19:27 – Norma Hatfield

True collaboration requires that we work together from the beginning of a process all the way until we are done building something together. House metaphor.

19:28-19:54 – Andry Sweet

Co-creation requires that we really listen.

19:55-20:48

Dean Ramona Denby-Brinson – Lived experience is a way of knowing. Moving away from the transactional nature of these relationships. We want the same for our families – health, happiness, and hope.

20:49-21:04 - Anthony Barrows

Who isn’t being listened to in your work?

21:05-21:36 - Marlo Nash

People with lived experience are willing to share their stories, often traumatic, but also their expertise to make changes that will improve outcomes for children and families now and for future generations.

21:39-21:54 - Luke Waldo – Closing and Gratitude

21:56-23:00 Luke Waldo - 3 Key Takeaways

1. We don't want to only prevent the bad things from happening. We need to promote and grow the good things.
2. How might systems change themselves in order to respond to the needs of a diverse population of families that they serve?
3. How do we address the harm that we've caused, and how do we do this for real, for real. How do we have the humility and the accountability to address the harm that has been caused, that families that we serve have been telling us, often yelling, yet unheard for too long.

23:07-24:30 - Luke Waldo – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Email Luke Waldo at lwaldo@childrenswi.org to share how you are changing the conditions so that children and families can thrive.

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:06-1:03 – Luke Waldo - Over the past 30 years, we have seen a 60% decline in physical and sexual abuse of children across the United States. We should celebrate this achievement that came from building a shared understanding of the challenge and targeting solutions through prevention and early intervention. Over those same 30 years, we have only seen a 10% decline in child neglect while poverty has remained stubbornly persistent and social isolation has grown.

How might we change these conditions that overload families with stress and make them vulnerable to child neglect and family separation?

In season 1, we set out to build a shared understanding of neglect and its underlying root causes.

In season 2, we confronted complex systemic challenges that overload families, and the Critical Pathways that have shown promise in advancing solutions.

Now, how might we transform our systems, create a prevention ecosystem, and center families as the experts they are and the decision-makers they should be?

1:04-1:18 – Jennifer Jones – “Too many families are being subjected to harmful child welfare investigations. Too many families are being separated due to a wide range of things that, if we addressed them before they were in crisis, things like poverty.”

1:20-1:28 – Allison Thompson – “A neglect report is lack of supervision, or deplorable housing, or insufficient food, can all be thought of as proxies for poverty.”

1:36-1:48 - Blake Roberts Crall – “People are working hard, and yet they still can’t make ends meet. Families are still struggling, and a lot of that labor is unrecognized in the rest of our social safety net.”

1:48-2:00 – Samantha Copus - “It’s the child welfare system, right? It’s not the parent welfare system. Who’s looking out for these parents who are going to be looking out for these children? And that’s not to take away from the good intentions of the professionals of the system.”

2:01-2:06 – Kate Luster – “It’s not about staff doing things wrong, it was really about how we’ve implemented the system's mandates.”

2:07-2:18 - Anthony Barrows - “You name the system, and I’ve probably been on the inside of it. And I’ve seen how those systems can positively transform people’s lives when they work well and how they can chew people up and spit them out when they don’t.”

2:19-2:25 – Samantha Copus - “Parents aren’t wrong about how they feel when they’re in the system. The single most frustrating piece is feeling like you’re screaming and no one can hear you.”

2:26-2:34 - Jennifer Jones - “We must disrupt the status quo and advance equitable access to opportunities and environments that all families need to thrive.”

2:35-2:40 - Jaclyn Gilstrap – “We love talking about it. We are good talking about it, but how do we do this for real, for real?”

2:41-2:48 - Bryan Samuels - “Is the goal you’re trying to get engagement, or is it ownership? And if you’re thinking about ownership, then you need to go the extra mile.”

2:49-3:00 – Marlo Nash – “We’ve gotta be communicating with one another. We have to create the answers. To do that, you have to have spaces and containers that are safe where you can have those conversations.”

3:01-3:11 – Kate Luster – “As we’ve partnered with parents in new ways, we’ve learned the value and importance of acknowledging in formal ways the harm that’s been done.”

3:12-3:25 – Bryan Samuels - “Sometimes we rely too much on champions, that if you want community ownership, you gotta move beyond the people who will say the right thing and make sure you have the people around the table that will defend the right thing.”

3:26-3:36 - Blake Roberts Crall – “Think about the freedom of choice, trust, and self-determination as a way of bringing some trust back to our social safety net and welfare systems.”

3:37-3:57 - Ramona Denby-Brinson - “Lived experience is a way of knowing and we should recognize it for what it is. It’s one of the most powerful ways that we know, and that we can serve our families and our communities. And moving away from that transactional approach, we have to show up in very different ways. First and foremost, we show up with respect.”

3:58-4:02 – Samantha Copus - “Maybe that’s the biggest goal is changing the relationships between families and child welfare.”

4:03-4:14 – Jennifer Jones – “The ecosystem is reliant on a diverse array of actors working in this collective and unified way to achieve our aspirational outcomes and our north star.”

4:18-5:03 – Luke Waldo - Join me, Luke Waldo, for season 3 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we confront these complex realities where, too often, overloaded families are expected to beat the odds that have been stacked against them. In this season, we explore how we might change the conditions so that we improve the odds for children and families to thrive. Through conversations with national and local experts and changemakers, we dive into the innovative ideas that aspire to transform our systems through community leadership, build an aligned and comprehensive primary prevention ecosystem, and unlock the power of lived experience through true collaboration.

We believe neglect is preventable. Join us on Wednesday, January 8th when we premiere season 3 wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Josh Mersky – Co-Director of the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, Professor at UW-Milwaukee’s Helen Bader School of Social Welfare

:00-:36 – Josh Mersky - If we only focus on poor families, we’re going to miss opportunities to prevent a lot of maltreatment cases. So I think the FRCs have a lot of prevention capacity because they reach a lot of people from all walks of life and because they offer an array of services that can be tailored to match the amount of support that each family needs.”

:37-4:15 – Luke Waldo – Opening and Welcome

4:16-4:18 – Josh Mersky – Hello

4:18-4:29 – Luke – Where did your journey studying resilience and family protective factors begin, and where has it led?

4:30-:10:47 Josh – In the early stages of his professional career before going back to school. Worked in human service capacities with youth who had adverse experiences. This experience led to relationships with children and families that he served and his colleagues. At UW-Madison, he worked on the Chicago Longitudinal Study that studied the Child-Parent Centers. He learned that these programs had a positive impact on short-term and long-term educational, social-emotional, and child maltreatment outcomes. Why? They invest in enriched supports for families like home economics for parents, community outreach. This is a two-generation approach in which they work with both parents and children. They found that parents were more involved in the child’s school and education, and there was less stress in the home. Over the last two decades, he has focused on the causes of child adversity and maltreatment and the programs that can support families and build resilience.

• Chicago Longitudinal Study
• Dr. Arthur Reynolds
• Chicago Child-Parent Centers

10:48-12:05 - Luke – What have you learned about the impact of child neglect and, conversely, how does social connectedness help to reduce the risk of neglect or mitigate its effects?

12:06-17:34 - Josh – We have known now for a long time that neglect can have adverse impacts on child development. There is good research that neglect can lead to later-life violence at similar rates as abuse. Neglect does not get the same attention as child abuse. Neglect is strongly correlated with poverty, which makes it difficult to separate the two. We need to design effective programs to address neglect as neglect is often neglected by policymakers and funders. Neglect is most likely to occur where there is an absence of strong social connectedness, therefore, investing in and strengthening social connectedness in the home, school, and community is an effective preventative approach to neglect.

• Harry Harlow – Experiments on attachment and neglect

17:35-17:51 – Luke - What does social connectedness look like and how does it impact the individual and family?

17:52-24:07 - Josh – Social connectedness as an ecology shows that our closest environments are the most important – family, friends, and peers. We can expand beyond those closest relationships – neighborhood, faith communities – to explain how we function. How our environments are structured has a significant impact on our well-being. Social determinants of health are influential. Promotive factors versus protective factors. For children who have experienced adversity, protective factors are particularly important. Story about his grandmother and their close relationship. A grandparent can be a buffer for children who have experienced homelessness, the loss of a parent, or neglect, which can promote resilience in that child.

• Social Ecological Model - Unicef
• Social Determinants of Health
• Promotive and Protective Factors – Center for the Study of Social Policy

24:08-26:14 - Luke - What do FRCs promote or strengthen that has or may have the greatest impact on reductions in child maltreatment and in keeping families together?

26:15-32:33 - Josh – Family Resource Centers have some common elements. They are universal, so all families can benefit from FRCs. FRCs are designed to be comprehensive, so they provide many different services like parenting groups, home visiting, or development assessments. FRCs operate at a community level where they engage and connect community members and resources. At the Parenting Place in LaCrosse, they host a Children’s Festival that brings out many people from the community. Why do FRCs reduce the risk of neglect? Progressive universalism or targeted universalism is when you balance equality of access with equity of resource distribution. The Prevention Paradox illustrates this idea that the majority of incidents of maltreatment occur in families of moderate risk, so we need to be cautious about solely focusing on those living in poverty or considered to be “at-risk”.

• Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention Board (CANPB)
• Parenting Place

32:34-33:01 – Luke - What have you learned from your research on Family Resource Centers?

33:02-39:03 - Josh – The Strong and Stable Families project is funded by the CANPB and works with 18 FRCs across the state. The project gathers data from families that receive services from FRCs and families that do not. What have they learned? FRC participants are mostly above the poverty line, however, most are lower-SES. They tend to have more challenges than the general population. They are more likely to have employment, housing, and healthcare challenges. They also reported many positive Adult Experiences, which include protective factors such as social connectedness. They use the Protective Factors Survey to measure those protective factors. FRC participants have been shown to have similar levels of protective factors such as social connectedness, however, they appear to have less concrete supports such as stable income, housing, etc. compared to the general population.

• The Strong and Stable Families project
• Protective Factors Survey – FRIENDS National Center for Community-Based Child Abuse Prevention

39:04-39:32 - Luke - What have you seen as barriers to applying this evidence/research in systems? And how might we more effectively translate research and evidence into policies and practices?

39:33-43:37 - Josh – Inertia is a barrier as systems change moves slowly or the status quo reigns. Prevention is difficult to demonstrate the outcomes or ROI to policymakers compared to intervention. If we can show that FRCs serve as a hub that connects to other services and supports, we might see greater investment and buy-in. Hello, Baby is a universal program delivered to all families with a newborn.

• Hello Baby

43:38-44:08 - Luke – What makes you optimistic about the future of this work?

44:09-47:18 - Josh – There is growing recognition that child welfare systems were not designed to provide services to families, and therefore there is a need to invest more in prevention services to get further upstream. This has led to Family First Prevention Services Act, which has already begun investing more in mental health, home visiting, and prevention programs to families that may be at risk of child maltreatment. Family Resource Centers across the state are critical to their communities.

• Eau Claire FRC
• St. Croix Valley FRC
• Marathon County FRC
• Family and Childcare Resources of Northeastern Wisconsin - Brown County FRC
• Parenting Place – Lacrosse FRC
• Indian Community School

47:19-48:10 – Luke - Before we let you go, can you share a book or author that shaped or represents your thinking around your work?

48:11-49:59 - Josh – Promoting early literacy is so important as it improves attachment between children and their caregivers. Invest in your local libraries and early literacy programs.

50:00-50:24 - Luke – Dea Wright and the Office for Early Childhood Initiatives is going to be a big fan, Josh.

• Office of Early Childhood Initiatives – City of Milwaukee

50:25-50:45 - Josh – Josh will be meeting with Dea to discuss some of their initiatives promoting reading to children in non-professional spaces such as barber shops.

50:46-51:19 – Luke - Thank you, Josh!

51:20-51:34 – Josh – Thank you, Luke!

51:35-56:00 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

56:01-57:05 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Julie Ahnen – Dane County HHS
• Laura Glaub – Madison Metro School District
• Marc Seidl – Brown County HHS

:00-:16 – Julie Ahnen “Do the best you can until you know better. And then when you know better, do better.”

:20-3:50 – Luke Waldo – Opening and Welcome

• Child Protective Services Reports Dashboard - Wisconsin Department of Children and Families

3:51-4:26 – Luke - I’d like to begin our conversation by learning more about you and your journeys with mandated reporting, community collaboration, and systems and service failures on children and families. Welcome, Julie.

4:27-9:22– Julie Ahnen – Over a 25 year career in child welfare, she acknowledges that she has had some blind spots with mandated reporting. In the past 15 years in Dane County, they have recognized the disproportionality that exists in our child welfare system. “We don’t have control over who comes through the front door.” Center for the Study of Social Policy webinar on Implicit Bias and Structural Racism led her team to researching changes in mandated reporting to mandated supporting in places like New York. The mantra has been for decades “see something, say something”, but the last two and a half years since the murder of George Floyd has led to a shift. People like Dorothy Roberts have been articulating these messages of change for decades.

• Exploring Implicit Bias in Child Welfare – Center for the Study of Social Policy
• Shattered Bonds: The Color of Child Welfare – Dorothy Roberts
• What Does it Mean to Abolish the Child Welfare System as We Know It? - CSSP

9:23-10:01 - Luke – Dorothy Roberts is mentioned frequently in this podcast. Marc, what has your journey looked like?

10:02-14:17 – Marc Seidl – Over the past 15 years as part of the child welfare system, he too has voiced the mantra of reporting whenever you have a concern for a child. However, he now recognizes that the data shows that this has resulted in “casting an incredibly wide net that is entangling families needlessly” in the system. Most of those families don’t meet the maltreatment standards, so they don’t receive services that they truly need as CPS is not built to do that for families that don’t enter the system. In Brown County, of the 4,000 reports that they receive each year, 73% are screened out, yet those reports live on for those families. This reality has led to a real passion to addressing our mandated reporting process to improve outcomes for families.

• Child Welfare Reports and Dashboards – Wisconsin DCF
• Putting Families First Dashboard – Racial and Ethnic Disparities - DCF

14:18-15:41 - Luke – Thank you, Marc, for sharing those startling statistics in which 3,000 of the 4,000 families that are reported to Brown County CPS never reach the system.

15:42-16:21 - Marc – Of those 1000 or so families that are screened in, only 6% or so are substantiated for maltreatment. “So there is this reverse funnel” where only a few families actually have committed maltreatment while the majority of families coming to the attention of the child welfare system have not.

16:22-16:44 – Luke – So based on my math, only 60 families ultimately enter the child welfare system due to substantiated maltreatment of the 4,000 initial reports?

16:45-17:28 - Marc – Ultimately, around 140 families entered the Brown County child welfare system of the 4,000 reports that were made.

17:29-17:35 - Luke – Laura, can you share your journey?

17:36-23:30 – Laura Glaub – Her journey starts once she joined a school district. As a White woman, she didn’t experience the child welfare system on the other side of mandated reporting. As an AmeriCorps member, she always consulted with her students and families so that she could support them rather than report them. As a social worker, she looks to collaborate with families even though the policies often encourage her to call CPS whenever there is doubt. Laura tells a story about how she handled an incident when a student disclosed an allegation of abuse to her. She contacted the parent to work collaboratively with the parent in reporting with her. Laura has worked more collaboratively with partners like Julie and Dane County HHS since the pandemic to improve outcomes like chronic absenteeism for children and families.

• AmeriCorps

23:31-25:00 – Luke – How does mandated reporting impact overloaded families and our workforce?

25:01-30:15 – Julie – The history of our child welfare laws have targeted Black and minority families starting with AFDC. Family separation of Black and Native families has been deeply rooted in our history. The Flemming Rule came along in the 1960s that led to an increase in more families coming into the child welfare system. Then CAPTA led to an even greater increase due to fear from mandated reporters as they didn’t want to be penalized for not reporting. Reporters have historically wanted to remain anonymous, and would get angry if they were discovered by the family that they reported. This creates an adversarial dynamic rather than one of collaboration and trust, which overloaded families need to overcome their challenges. Now, Dane County is shifting more towards collaborating with families to build that trust, which is empowering staff.

• Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC)
• Flemming Rule
• The Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act(CAPTA)

30:16-30:24 – Luke – What does AFDC stand for?

30:25-30:43 - Julie – Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) is now known as TANF.

30:44-31:46 - Luke – The consequences for mandated reporting often lead to a lack of engagement and support from our community and our most overloaded families. There is often a lack of accountability to overloaded families who need support, but instead are reported to CPS.

31:47-35:18 - Marc – We got into this work because we want to help families. There has been a shift from investigating families like law enforcement to conducting assessments, which started with the alternative response pilot to better understand and support families that are overloaded. Access is critical as it is the front door to the child welfare system, so the assessment process should feel like an interview to better understand what is really happening in families’ lives. Trust is very difficult when our role is seen as intruding in their lives and not providing the support they need. We “need to bridge that gap (of trust) first.”

• Alternative Response

35:19-35:22 - Luke – Laura, how does mandated reporting impact families and school staff?

35:23-37:28 - Laura – “When I think of mandated reporting, I think of stressful and punitive interactions. When I make a report, I know that it will not be neutral as my experience influences my decision.” Families are doing the best for their kids. They are navigating systems that have harmed them.

37:29-39:24 - Julie – There is a level of fear in the community of mandated reporters and child welfare professionals because they know that they can interview their children without their presence and have the authority to separate their families. This dynamic makes it difficult to build trust.

39:25-39:43 - Luke – What is not working that is leading to overloaded families being reported to CPS?

39:44-42:30 - Marc – Wendy Henderson, DCF Administrator, shared recently that 15 years ago around 40% of all child maltreatment substantiations were due to neglect. That number is now 70%. That coupled with 15 years ago had 80 out of 100 families that lived in poverty were supported by TANF whereas now that number is 21 out of 100 families. If Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is not met, the basic needs of an individual or family, then all the other needs are more difficult to focus on and meet. How does a low-paying job pay for the high costs of childcare? If economic instability wasn’t an issue, would we see as much substance abuse and mental health issues?

• Few Families Receive the TANF Cash Assistance They’re Eligible For – Urban Institute
• Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

42:31-43:18 - Luke – We may need to invite you back, Marc, to join our conversations around economic stability. Laura?

• ICFW Economic Stability Critical Pathway

43:19-45:15 - Laura – The new Race to Equity report came out, which shows that it is very difficult to be Black in this state. Wisconsin also has many non-profits, but it is too often difficult for families to get what they actually need. It’s easier to get a turkey or backpack than the services or resources that would help families overcome the systemic challenges that overload them.

• Race to Equity report

45:16-47:04 - Luke – What is the state of community collaboration in your community?

• ICFW Community Collaboration Critical Pathway

47:05-48:52 - Julie – There is still a belief system that poverty is a moral failing. We then look to “repair” this struggling individual rather than fix the systems that lead to poverty.

48:53-50:02 - Luke – As Jennifer Jones stated in the first season, we can both feed people that are hungry while also addressing the systemic and root causes of hunger. Marc, what is the state of community collaboration?

50:03-53:26 - Marc – There is robust collaboration between Brown County CPS and its school districts through a number of meetings each year. Those meetings have expanded since the pandemic. They exchange knowledge and dialogue around how they can work better together and with their families. They have worked on mandated reporting with one another. CPS is now looking to connect with families first rather than making decisions without their input.

53:27-53:45 - Luke – Laura?

53:46-57:25 - Laura – The school district in partnership with Dane County HHS has shifted from mandated reporting to mandated supporting, from truancy to chronic absenteeism, which focuses on trying to understand what is underlying the chronic absenteeism and what might be missing for families. This has led to a wraparound approach and community collaboration with housing, mental health, family-serving organizations that are communicating more effectively now, particularly for families that have been historically excluded.

57:26-58:11 - Luke – Julie Incitti from Department for Public Instruction introduced us through their efforts to better understand how mandated reporting has worked and not worked in schools. Julie, what has your team been working on to shift from mandated reporting to a more supporting mindset?

• Child Abuse and Neglect training – Department for Public Instruction

58:12-1:03:11 - Julie – Dane County’s mandated reporting process has long been a “how to” rather than emphasizing why we report who and what we report. There has been a shift towards understanding implicit bias and how it has led to disproportionality of Black and minority families being reported as well as too many families being reported who never receive the services that they could really benefit from. Encouraging more critical thinking to determine if the report rises to the level of maltreatment. Providing education to the community that anyone can refer families to the services that CPS can refer to so that they don’t feel that they need to refer to CPS for those services. Dane County has opened a line for reporters to consult with CPS rather than make the report before reflecting on whether it meets the definition of maltreatment.

1:03:12-1:04:18 – Luke – What if the thousands of families in Wisconsin that were reported to CPS but didn’t receive services were referred to a system that is designed to support them?

1:04:19-1:05:36 – Laura – The new Mandated Supporting approach centers families as the solution. All of MMSD is receiving the Mandated Supporting training.

1:05:37-1:05:58 – Luke – MMSD is Madison Metro School District. Marc?

1:05:59-1:09:55 - Marc – There has been a shift towards engagement and assessment with children and families to better understand what is truly happening with a family. They have also added their phone numbers and encouragement on screen out letters so that reporters can understand the screen out decision. This creates more collaboration and open lines of communication.

1:09:56-1:12:08 - Luke – There are two systems change levers that have been shared – 1. Change in mental models. 2. Relationships with overloaded families and community partners. What is still needed?

1:12:09-1:14:29 - Julie – Our mental models still need to shift. Some overloaded families don’t have the awareness that they are struggling, so we need to build community support around those families before they need intervention. We can’t rely solely on community organizations to solve these problems.

1:14:30-1:14:31 – Luke – Thank you, Julie. Marc?

1:14:32-1:17:23 - Marc – We need to meet families’ basic needs so that we can reduce the need for child welfare intervention. During the pandemic, stimulus checks brought down poverty and child welfare removals. 87% of families used their checks for basic needs.

• Stimulus Payments, Child Tax Credit Expansion Were Critical Parts of Successful COVID-19 Policy Response -

1:17:24-1:19:00 - Luke – We have a poverty crisis in this country. There needs to be upward pressure that includes more money in families’ pockets and downward pressure on the rising costs of housing, childcare, and food.

1:19:01-1:22:08 - Laura – We need to shift the responsibility more onto our systems that are causing many of these problems, particularly the cost and inaccessibility of basic needs. We also need a community wraparound approach that supports and empowers families.

1:22:09-1:22:26 – Luke – What makes you optimistic?

1:22:27-1:23:21 - Laura – Students and families advocating for themselves. There are great collaborative efforts that are pushing to dismantle oppressive systems and improve our policies and practices.

1:23:22-1:23:26 - Luke – Marc?

1:23:27-1:24:52 - Marc – We are having these conversations. Years ago, this conversation wouldn’t have happened. Most of the people having these conversations are receptive to these new ideas.

1:24:53-1:25:51 - Luke – Systems change does not happen unless hearts and minds change, and that can’t happen if these conversations aren’t happening.

1:25:52-1:28:12 - Julie – Similar to Marc, the fact that these conversations are happening in our organizations and communities is promising. There are local and national efforts that are looking at economic and concrete supports as a solution to family separation. It’s also promising that young professionals entering the child welfare system today are learning differently, are exposed to the teachings of Dorothy Roberts and can be the disruptors to change the system.

• Dorothy Roberts
• Color of Child Welfare conference

1:28:13-1:28:51 - Luke – What book or author has shaped your thinking?

1:28:52-1:29:31 - Julie

• Dorothy Roberts – Torn Apart
• Shanta Trivedi

1:29:32-1:29:33 – Luke – Laura?

1:29:34-1:30:19 – Laura

• Dr. Bettina Love – We Want to Do More than Survive
• UpEnd Podcast

1:30:20-1:30:29 – Luke – Marc?

1:30:30-1:31:27 - Marc

• Closing the Front Door of Child Protection: Rethinking Mandated Reporting
• An Unintended Abolition. Family Regulation During the COVID-19 Crisis

1:31:28-1:32:28 - Luke – Thank you, Julie, Laura and Marc

1:32:34-1:35:10 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1:35:11-1:37:24 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Esmeralda Martinez – Parent Advocate – Children’s Wisconsin

:00-:17 – Esmeralda Martinez - “So those closest to the problem are those who are best suited to help fix it.”

:30-4:32– Luke Waldo – Opening

• Liz Weaver and Mark Cabaj – Collective Impact and “Nothing about us, without us” – Episode 2
• Think of Us
• Parents Supporting Parents – Wisconsin Department for Children and Families

4:33-5:12 - Luke - Welcome, Esme. What happened in your life that led to child welfare becoming involved in your family’s life? How did the different challenges that you were facing begin to overload you with stress?

5:13-6:36 – Esmeralda Martinez – Esme was struggling with addiction and homelessness when she was pregnant with her second child. She didn’t want to raise this child in the condition that she was in, so she left the baby at the hospital. Child welfare took custody of the child and placed her with Esme’s sister.

6:37-7:08 - Luke – Can you share what was happening in your life that led to the abusive relationship, homelessness and financial challenges that would have made it hard for you to raise your second child?

7:09-9:30 – Esme – Childhood trauma and access to alcohol at an early age. Struggled with alcoholism in her teens with moments of sobriety. She struggled with finances as a young mother, so she decided to go back to school. She met a man who at first was really good for her and her son. But over time, he became controlling and then physically abusive to a point where she ended up in the emergency room.

9:31-11:34 - Luke – What do you feel was missing that led to your coping through alcohol? What changed that led to your moments of sobriety and pursuit of education?

11:35-15:39 - Esme – Education about what can lead to abusive relationships was missing from her youth. Her mother worked three jobs. Her family struggled with poverty, so she didn’t always have her around to support or educate her. High school students should receive education on healthy relationships and what to do if abuse does occur. People with lived experience could be powerful teachers of healthy relationship curriculum. Addiction and alcoholism was part of her family history, so she may have been predisposed. Esme’s parents took her son when she was struggling with alcohol, and they made an ultimatum that if she didn’t get sober that they would take legal steps to address her parental rights. She wished she had gotten into treatment earlier, but she wasn’t aware of them. She leaned on her faith until her daughter was removed from her care by the child welfare system. A charter school took a chance on her, which allowed her to see what healthy living looked like. It inspired her to make changes in her life.

15:40-17:07 - Luke – We often underappreciate the impact of a single person or institution on one’s motivation to overcome challenges. The school clearly helped you find your motivation. What was your experience with the child welfare system?

17:08-22:09 – Esme – For the first months after she left her daughter in the hospital, she was homeless and struggling with addiction, so she didn’t receive any documents or information as she didn’t have an address. She wanted help, but didn’t know how to get it or what the first step was. She didn’t know where to turn or that there was a process from detox to treatment and so on. After being in survival mode for so long, she was so tired. Then, a woman that she had gotten close with on the streets had disappeared for awhile, and showed back up to let her know that she had gotten treatment. This was her moment of inspiration. She contacted her sister to let her know that she was going to seek treatment. The screening and intake process was challenging as she didn’t have a working phone, so if there weren’t beds available she would need to call back every day.

• Rogers Behavioral Health – Inpatient Services

22:10-22:18 – Luke - Esme, can you share more about your recovery journey and what it was like to navigate the Substance Abuse and Child Welfare systems at the same time?

22:19-29:12 – Esme - After a couple weeks, she was able to get in. But then there wasn’t a residential placement available, so she was going to be released. She knew that she couldn’t go back to the streets, so she asked her parents to come up to support her until she was able to get a residential placement. There was one worker who worked so hard for her until she got a placement at Meta House. She was then able to get five months of residential treatment, which is beyond the norm. In the midst of this, she was able to connect with her child welfare case manager and begin visits with her daughter. There had been some turnover with the case manager, which can be difficult for families.

• Meta House

29:13-32:32 - Luke – There are tensions in our systems – the time addiction recovery takes versus the short period of time a parent has to recover so that they can be reunified with their child – and the real challenges that overloaded families face that make it even more difficult to overcome these tensions. How did your experience with child welfare inform your work in your current role?

32:33-34:48 - Esme – The impact of peer support specialists in her treatment and recovery was so important, particularly the inspiration of seeing how far they had come. Knowing how hard this is is invaluable in giving encouragement. She does relive some of her darkest moments, but she works for an organization that takes care of her.

• Peer Specialists – Wisconsin Department for Health Services

34:49-35:58 - Luke – What does the Parent Advocate role look like?

35:59-37:40 - Esme – A direct support for biological parents who are going through the child welfare system. Sometimes a listening ear, transportation to appointments, a mediator between a parent and case manager, a support during visits.

37:41-38:18 - Luke – What do parents tell you is the greatest value of your role?

38:19-39:11 - Esme – That doesn’t happen as you might imagine, but she realizes that she didn’t see the value necessarily in the moment when she was working with peer support either. But the exchange of information and encouragement is really important.

39:12-40:18 – Luke – How have you seen the Parent Advocate role serve as a bridge between the case manager and the parent?

40:19-41:08- Esme – The parent may be more willing to connect with her and receive the information because they know that Esme’s been through this. She works through documents and information in a way that takes some of the emotion out of the process, and it helps them understand that it’s not personal, but rather the case manager’s job.

41:09-42:19 - Luke – Is there a credibility or trust-building that happens because you have been through the system in a way that a case manager hasn’t?

42:20-43:43- Esme – Indeed. She doesn’t have to be professional in the way that case managers have to be. Maintaining professionalism when we are in somebody’s life the way that we are is very difficult.

43:44-49:38 - Luke – It is important to explore this concept of professionalism within human services and child welfare. There is so much lived experience within our field, and yet there has been this expectation that we create strong boundaries to button it up. How might we find the balance so that one’s lived experience can help build trust with those that are in the system now? How do we support people with lived experience so that you can do your job well and for a long time?

49:39-52:18 - Esme – She feels supported by Children’s as she has the best supervisor that she’s ever had. It would be great to have another Parent Advocate to have weekly check-ins so that she could consult with them on what they are experiencing. More funding would be helpful to provide incentives to the parents that she works with to engage them.

52:19-53:50 – Luke – How do you overcome the tension of being part of the organization that is partially responsible for their family separation?

53:51-55:12 - Esme – Her role allows her to maintain confidentiality with parents. She works hard to build trust through that.

55:13-57:11 – Luke – How have you been involved in the decision-making process? Do you feel like your perspective is changing how we think about our work?

57:12-59:33 - Esme – Partner programs such as Family Support have consulted with her. She has been involved in many focus groups exploring opportunities for systems change. Garbage can example.

59:34-1:02:00 - Luke – References Mark Cabaj, Liz Weaver and episode 2 in response to Esme’s statement of “So those closest to the problem are those who are best suited to help fix it.”

1:02:01-1:03:56 - Esme – The support that this role has received from our organization and system. Systems change takes a long time. The sincerity in the people that are leading systems change efforts. Seeing the acknowledgement of the humanity of people in the system.

1:03:57-1:05:09 - Luke - Closing and Gratitude

1:05:10-1:05:26 – Esme – Thank you

1:05:27-1:07:25 - 3 Key Takeaways

1:07:26-1:08:56 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Diana Maya
• Jessika Harlston
• Ayesha Teague
• Amy Baldus
• Micaela Conlon-Bue

00-:47 – Diana Maya - “Si hay una persona alli fuera que se siente sola, que siente que ya no tiene fuerzas, busquen ayuda.”

Jessika Harlston – “But having her as that outsider looking in was what I really needed to see the most. And she guided me in every way shape or form to mold me into the woman that I am today. I had the mentality to do it. I just, I needed someone from the outside to kind of help me see from what everybody else was seeing.”

:55-6:32 – Luke Waldo – Opening and Welcome

6:33-7:04 – Luke – Diana, what was happening in your life and your family’s life that led you to seek support from Amy and Children’s Wisconsin?

7:05-8:23 – Diana – Last year was difficult as I struggled with depression. My mental health crisis affected my three children, especially my oldest son who had suicidal thoughts. I struggled with energy, which impacted my ability to work. I asked for help and started medication, but it made me more tired. So I came to Children’s to ask for help for me and my family, and that’s how I started working with Amy. I feel fortunate to have met her and started the program.

• 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline
• Children’s Wisconsin – Steven’s Point

8:24-10:04 - Luke – Luke translates into English what Diana shared. What was happening in your life that caused your depression?

10:05-12:02 – Diana – It started many years ago when I lived in Texas. I struggled with post-partum depression after the birth of my daughter. Three years ago, I decided to move to Stevens Point in Wisconsin, a small town where I didn’t know anyone. I packed up my car with my three suitcases and children, and drove here to start fresh. Then I had a surgery and spent three days alone in the hospital, and I fell apart. I had no support, and something broke in that moment.

12:03-14:08 - Luke – Luke translates into English what Diana shared. What was missing in your life that could have changed your life for the better?

14:09-19:36 - Diana – Ever since I was young, I have experienced abandonment. I never met my father. When I was very young, my mother met another man who she chose over me, and I went to live with my grandmother. When I was 12, my mother asked my grandmother to have me back, but only to clean her house and take care of my younger sister. I started to use drugs to cope. When I was 15, my mother moved to Texas and left me behind. I had to find my way on my own. At 17, I got pregnant with my oldest son, and I met my first and only love. At 24, I was five months pregnant with my second son when the father of my child died in a car accident. 6 years later I had my daughter. I have worked really hard to be a perfect mother because I hold so much resentment towards my mother. What was missing in my life? The care of my parents, a proper education as I was educated in the streets. That led to becoming addicted to drugs and alcohol. But I changed for my children. “Me hubiera gustado muchisimo un abrazo, la proteccion de una madre.” My mother suffered a lot as her partner was abusive. I didn’t understand her back then, but I understand now that she suffered too. I have forgiven her. I wish it had been different, but all of this made me a strong woman.

19:37-22:48 - Luke – Luke translates into English what Diana shared.

22:49-23:12– Luke – Welcome, Jessika. What was happening in your life that overloaded you and your family with stress and led to child welfare involvement?

23:13-28:25 – Jessika – Jessika became isolated from her family and support network due to an abusive relationship with her husband. She eventually left after 5 years, and took her 3 children to her mother’s house. After leaving for work, her mother called her to let her know that she took her baby to the hospital. She was asked to come in to the hospital as they found her baby to be malnourished. Child welfare got involved, and she was charged with neglect.

• National Domestic Violence Hotline

28:26-29:44 - Luke – Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jessika. What was missing that you needed that would have helped you overcome the challenges that you were facing?

29:45-32:29 - Jessika – She needed parenting and coping support as the stress of the abusive relationship would translate to her reactions to her children. She learned childhood development that allowed her to better understand what was “normal” behavior, and then how she could control her responses to those behaviors. This also allowed her to care for her children in a way that would help them grow into healthy young men.

32:30-34:18 - Luke – We all need people in our lives to support us when we parent. How did isolation impact your ability to parent your children and take care of yourself?

34:19-38:46 - Jessika – The isolation led to tension with her family with whom she had previously been so close. She started to lose a sense of herself as her family and community used to be such a big part of her identity. Nobody knew who I was anymore. My family made sure that my boys were good even when I wasn’t good. They brought back my light.

38:47-39:14 - Luke – Ayesha, what did you see in Jessika when you first met her and her kids?

39:15-40:33 - Ayesha Teague – She was a lost soul. She was trying to find her breakthrough, but she had been through a lot and was confused. There was a light in there, but the darkness was heavy.

40:34-40:48 - Luke – How did you and Jessika start pulling the darkness back?

40:49-43:37 - Ayesha – We started by being honest about what happened, so that she understood what her children had experienced and what impacts there could be if things don’t change. She then wanted to know who she was deep down inside beyond the child welfare report. Starting with her childhood, she was able to discover that she had been isolated from a family that she used to be so close to. Now, where do we go from here?

43:38-44:11 - Luke – Amy, what did Diana need when she first came to you and Children’s for support?

44:12-45:25 - Amy Baldus – When I first met Diana, she didn’t believe in or love herself. She wanted to change that. I’ve noticed that change over the past six months that I’ve known her.

45:26-45:40 - Luke – Amy, can you tell us about your role and the services that you have provided to Diana?

45:41-47:10 - Amy Baldus – We use Mobility Mentoring as a goal-setting and self-sufficiency tool. We use the Bridge assessment, which helps the participant and I assess where she is at in different core areas of her and her family’s life. I like to use the assessment to highlight the strengths of the parent as they haven’t always thought that they have them. I’ve learned that change happens when parents feel good about themselves and their strengths.

• Mobility Mentoring

47:11-49:54 - Ayesha – Mobility Mentoring is a professional practice that empowers families to achieve family stability. It uses a Bridge tool that focuses on 5 core areas that include Health and Well-being, Financial Stability, etc. that allows the participant to assess where they are at in those areas. It then includes partnering and coaching with the participant to set goals and action steps, and celebrate those goals when they are achieved.

• Mobility Mentoring Bridge to Self-Sufficiency

49:55-50:41 - Luke – Mobility Mentoring often surprises participants as they don’t expect to find strengths when they are seeking help. What did you learn about Diana in those early instances with the assessment?

50:42-51:31 - Amy – I noticed that she was lower on the social supports pillar. She also had some health and financial issues that she wanted to address. Her family pillar was assessed really high as most important. She was very motivated.

51:32-51:45 - Luke - What surprised Diana when she started working with you and Mobility Mentoring?

51:46-52:36 - Amy – The connection we had was a surprise. We built a trusting relationship first, which has been really important to our relationship. She has been open with me.

52:37-52:58 - Luke – What goals did Diana set that have led to the transformation in her life and her family’s life?

52:59-54:31 - Amy – Diana wanted to accomplish a lot. She wanted to improve her education and employment. She started an ESL class to improve her reading and writing of English. She wanted to improve her health, so she got a membership to a health club. She started exercising, which led to her being able to stop taking some medication. That led to better sleep and relationships with her family.

• English as a Second Language classes

54:32-55:04 – Luke – Diana, how has your relationship with Amy and the use of Mobility Mentoring helped you achieve your goals?

55:05-58:22 - Diana – It was difficult at first because I was really struggling with my depression and my communication with my oldest son who felt I didn’t care about him, which led to his own mental health struggles. When I first met Amy I cried a lot as I felt I failed my son and I felt that he hated me. But Amy supported me and told me that I was a good mother. She helped me realize that I have given comfort to my son in a way that I never experienced as a child. He’s not slept on the street, experienced abandonment. He has comfort at home with a Playstation. Through therapy and Amy’s support, I started to believe in myself. Amy not only believed in me, she also held me accountable. I will forever be grateful to her for believing in me.

58:23-1:01:29 - Luke – Luke translates into English what Diana shared.

1:01:30-1:02:16 - Luke – How did Mobility Mentoring and your partnership with Ayesha help you overcome your challenges?

1:02:17-1:04:18 - Jessika – Having stability, stable employment, my own place, and a divorce to begin my life with my children.

1:04:19-1:04:33 – Luke – How were you able to achieve these goals?

1:04:34-1:05:48 - Jessika – Ayesha pushed me to be my best version, towards my goals. She held me accountable while also reminding me that I’m more than the worst moment in my life. I may not be the best mom, but I’m going to be the best mom for my boys.

1:05:49-1:06:23 - Luke – Ayesha, what have you learned from the use of Mobility Mentoring?

1:06:24-1:09:34 - Ayesha – The Bridge assessment allows me to see where participants see themselves. Aside from safety concerns, most participants come in with employment, housing, childcare challenges. It serves as a powerful tool to help focus on where there are opportunities to grow. It also serves as a reminder that if one pillar of the bridge is weak, everything else can feel unstable.

• UMOS
• Community Advocates

1:09:35-1:10:26 - Luke – Micaela, what do our programs at Children’s offer to families who feel socially isolated? What can we do better to support families’ social connectedness?

1:10:27-1:11:50- Micaela Conlon-Bue – Working in the Western part of Wisconsin, many families experience the “tri-lemma” of housing, transportation and childcare insecurity that creates challenges for families, particularly when it comes to social isolation. With our suite of services from Family Resource Centers, Mobility Mentoring, and Home Visiting, we can offer solutions and support to families who are overloaded by this “tri-lemma”.

• Children’s Wisconsin – Merrill Office – Services

1:11:51-1:12:56 - Luke – Amy, as I see the emotion you are experiencing as you listen to this, can you share what your relationship with Diana means to you?

1:12:57-1:14:12 - Amy – It’s amazing to see how much Diana has accomplished and how she has changed to believe in herself in such a short period of time. We don’t always get to see such big change as our program is short-term – 4-6 months – so she will always be special to me as she let me be part of her journey.

1:14:13-1:16:32 – Luke – A single person can be critical in another person’s life and their ability to change. How might we change our mental models, communities and systems so that families like Diana’s don’t experience social isolation and mental health crises in the first place?

1:16:33-1:18:02 - Micaela – I work to incorporate the voice of our community as parents know what they need and what they don’t. Bringing us all together helps us solve problems more effectively.

1:18:03-1:19:04 - Luke – Reflection on Micaela’s point. What ultimately led to the breakthroughs for Jessika?

1:19:05-1:20:48 - Ayesha – Her support system and safety. As soon as she was in her mother’s home a heavy weight was lifted off her shoulders. She was able to reconnect with family and friends, which brought her light back. Mobility Mentoring allowed her to see what was missing, so that she could set goals and achieve them.

1:20:49-1:20:57 – Luke – Jessika, what were your breakthroughs?

1:20:58-1:21:46 - Jessika – Ayesha telling me the truth and being there for me.

1:21:47-1:22:27 - Luke – Thank you, Jessika and Ayesha.

1:22:28-1:23:07 – Luke – Diana, what do you want to share about your relationship with Amy and how it changed your life?

1:23:08-1:26:28 - Diana – I matured and learned to not take everything so seriously. I used to be more motivated by what others believe about me than what I believe about myself. Amy reminded me that life is short, and that I can forgive myself for not loving myself. This helped me forgive my mother after realizing that she was a victim herself. Maybe I was a better mom than my mom, but maybe she was better than her mom. Maybe my mother was a better daughter than I was. She may have sacrificed a lot to keep me safe by sending me to my grandmother’s. She came in October recently, I asked for her forgiveness for not being a better daughter, for not checking in on her. My children will understand someday that I gave them everything I could. I am grateful to Amy because she’s a strong woman. She helped me so much by believing in me.

1:26:29-1:28:05 - Luke – Luke translates into English what Diana shared.

1:28:06-1:28:19 – Amy – Diana, you have always been strong and I’m so proud of you for seeing it.

1:28:20-1:29:04 – Diana – Expresses gratitude. If you are feeling alone or struggling, ask for help. You are not alone. It will be worth it.

1:29:05-1:30:31 – Luke – Luke translates in English what Diana shared. Closing and Gratitude.

1:30:32-1:32:23 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1:32:24-1:33:52 - Luke – Closing and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jessika Harlston

:04-:20 – Jessika Harlston - “Everyone needs help in some shape or form. The biggest one, Luke, is the income limit. It shouldn’t matter how much a person is working or how much a person is bringing into the home, if that person needs help, let’s help them.”

:29-4:04 - Luke Waldo – Opening and Welcome

• 60th Anniversary of the War on Poverty
• Economic Opportunity Act
• Head Start
• Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA, now Americorps VISTA)

4:06-4:09 – Jessika – Thank you!

4:10-4:49 - Luke – How do economic challenges overload families with stress, and what do those challenges look like?

4:50-6:45 – Jessika – Jessika is a Financial Employability Planner (FEP). In her role, she helps individuals find employment. Many of her participants haven’t completed their education, so they often don’t have the academic skills. They also don’t have a work history, which makes it difficult to get an interview in the first place. Many also have children in their care that may have special needs or challenges, which makes it difficult for them to get work if they don’t have additional support for their kids. Lastly, some of her participants struggle with mental and physical health challenges, which can make maintaining a job difficult when all these stressors pile up.

• Financial Employability Planner

6:46-7:11 - Luke – What other stressors make it difficult to gain employment?

7:12-10:05 - Jessika – Biggest challenge is homelessness. Housing instability can cause participants to miss appointments as they are worrying about where they will sleep next. Transportation is the second biggest challenge. They often hold appointments by phone to limit the impact of unreliable transportation, but it is a barrier to getting and keeping a job. Childcare is also a challenge as it’s difficult to access, and there is also mistrust. Many participants look for employment that they can do from home so that they can keep their kids home.

10:06-10:30 - Luke – Of those challenges that you just mentioned, which do you find most difficult for families to overcome?

10:31-14:20- Jessika – “They are all difficult to overcome. But I’d have to say homelessness.” Even when participants have Section 8 Housing vouchers, many landlords will not accept the vouchers unless they have 3 months’ rent or income outside of their reach. So many of the other skills such as job skills are dependent on one’s housing stability.

• Section 8 Housing Vouchers

14:21-17:25 - Luke – We talked with our policy and research expert about the importance of public benefits such as TANF and housing vouchers. How many of your participants are able to access those benefits, and what are the benefits and challenges?

17:26-22:25 - Jessika – Too many resources are not accessible for many people living in poverty. Jessika was homeless, living in her car while she was employed, and attempting to access a job access loan. She was denied the job access loan because she made too much money even though she couldn’t afford a home. To access housing supports, they often need documentation from their landlord who doesn’t provide it because they don’t want to work with government assistance. It leads to people giving up because they work hard to get the assistance they need, and then nobody will allow them to use it.

• Job Access Loans

22:26-25:02 - Luke – The frustration of the benefits cliff. What is often missing in the lives of your participants that makes their experience more challenging?

25:03-28:43 - Jessika – Many participants don’t have their high school education, which means that they have to start with basic education to get their GED. This takes a lot of time, energy and resources. Many don’t have access to the internet, so accessing the courses can be difficult to prepare for this. They also don’t have the social support that they need to overcome some of these challenges.

• General Education Development (GED)

28:44-30:22 - Luke – What is underlying so many of your participants not having completed their high school education?

30:23-35:48 - Jessika – Incarceration, teen pregnancy, lack of support, hustling. Jessika tells a story of a participant who was incarcerated and had a child when he was a teenager due to growing up in a home where he had to hustle to eat and survive. He is now getting his GED. He is now learning how to care for himself, manage a home, care for his child, and keep a job in his late 20’s. Finding resources for single fathers can be uniquely difficult.

35:49-37:57 - Luke – What do overloaded families need to achieve economic stability?

37:58-40:21 - Jessika – They want to be heard. They also want to be engaged, supported and held accountable. Goal-setting and achievement are not skills that have been developed previously. Incentives can help, but keeping them engaged through ongoing communication is important.

40:22-43:02 – Luke – When we experience chronic toxic stress, our executive functioning is impaired and it becomes harder to set and accomplish these goals. How have you used Mobility Mentoring and its tools to support your participants?

• Mobility Mentoring

43:03-47:25 - Jessika – Goal setting was the most important tool. In her case, it allowed her to assess what areas of her life she needed to set goals for. She had stable housing at her mom’s after leaving her abusive relationship, a bachelor’s degree, a stable job, so she wanted to focus on caring for her children and herself. In the case of her participants, she gives them an employability plan that helps them set achievable goals, and then works with them to be accountable to those goals and celebrate them when they achieve them.

47:26-49:38 - Luke – What needs to change that would support families to achieve economic stability?

49:39-50:51- Jessika – Remove income limits that create barriers to accessing public benefits such as housing or childcare assistance.

• Understanding Benefits Cliffs – Institute for Research on Poverty

49:33-52:42 - Luke – The benefits cliff continues to be too low for too many families. What makes you optimistic?

• Helping People with Low Incomes Navigate Benefit Cliffs

52:43-55:26 - Jessika – Using her story to inspire others to accomplish their goals. Recognizing that we don’t all come from the same foundation, so offering support is critical in helping others achieve their goal.

55:27-56:53 – Luke – Jessika, what does your life look like today compared to when you were struggling?

56:54-1:01:06 - Jessika – I’m thriving because I have the social support that allows me to care for myself and my children. The stress of an unstable, abusive relationship made everything else so much more difficult. Her home is now safe, stable and peaceful. Her boys are surrounded by good role models and love.

1:01:07-1:02:17 - Luke – Closing and Gratitude

1:02:18-1:02:20 – Jessika – Thank you

1:02:23-1:04:09 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1:04:10-1:05:41 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jermaine Reed – Executive Director – Fresh Start Family Services

:00-:36 - Jermaine Reed - “If we were talking about 53% of White children coming to the attention of the child welfare system, 65-67% of our White children being in our local child welfare system, something would change. There would be a transformation. All hands on deck.”

:37-5:44 – Luke Waldo – Jermaine Reed’s bio and Welcome

• Color of Child Welfare Conference
• Why End Mandated Reporting? – Dorothy Roberts

5:45-5:59 – Jermaine – Greetings

6:00-6:52 - Luke – Gratitude and recognition for Jermaine’s commitment to Milwaukee and Black children and families through the Color of Child Welfare and his agency. What did you hope to inspire and accomplish with the Color of Child Welfare conference?

6:53-9:51 - Jermaine – We needed a platform locally and nationally to explore the many issues that Black children and families experience, especially as they relate to child welfare. Impact others across the country by promoting reflection on these issues.

9:52-11:16 - Luke – What is the evidence telling us about what is causing the disproportionality in our child welfare system?

11:17-12:59 - Jermaine – Administration for Children and Families acknowledged that racial discrimination exists in our child welfare system in 2021 due to bad policy and systemic racism, which lead to over-representation of Black families in our child welfare system. We must rid ourselves of policies and practices that allow or promote structural racism.

• Addressing Disproportionality, Disparity, and Equity Throughout Child Welfare –Children’s Bureau

13:00-13:40 - Luke – How might we address disproportionality to achieve equity?

13:41-18:53 - Jermaine – It will require a paradigm shift. We must humanize Black people, so that our workforce and our systems understand that Black families can care for their children. The US has a history of profiting on separation of Black families. We can’t fix a system that is not broken. We have to be brutally honest about the fact that child welfare has not produced good outcomes for Black children and families. “The ACF would not be investing $30 billion into programs that are not producing the results that it intended.”

• Torn Apart- Dorothy Roberts

18:54-21:03 - Luke – Jermaine, you don’t need to apologize for your passion. Will mental models shift, will we achieve greater equity by addressing disproportionality through Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts that increase diversity and inclusion in our workforce?

21:04-26:34 - Jermaine – It is important that Black people are visible and present, and sitting at the tables in our systems. But it’s more important that the right Black people are at the table, so we avoid tokenism that simply advances the predominant ideology of White supremacy. There have been Black leaders who have perpetuated the harm of these systems because they were an extension of it. Having a Black person on your board or in leadership does not necessarily mean that they are committed to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Fresh Start Today was the first and only talk show that focused on child welfare and Black families. And yet, Fresh Start Today, Color of Child Welfare Conference, and Fresh Start Family Services did not receive funding or support from state or local agencies that were led by Black leaders. “I don’t want to confuse position with power.” I want to see allyship that humanize Black children and families.

• Fresh Start Today

26:35-28:13 - Luke – If we are to achieve our goal of SFTCCC, we will have to significantly reduce the number of Black families that come into our child welfare system. Where have you seen change that makes you believe that your vision that you laid out can be achieved?

28:14-32:26- Jermaine – I haven’t seen any meaningful changes. Black children and families still have dismal outcomes in the child welfare system. Black children are being placed all over the state rather than with family. Black children are aging out of the system and are faring worse than other children that age out. Still seeing Black children being abused in the system. Black men are invisible in the system. Fatherhood initiatives have been going on for 20-30 years, but very little has changed. At around 31:50, Jermaine pauses and shares that this is hard, painful, and traumatizing because of his own experience as a Black man.

32:27-33:36 - Luke – What inspires the fight and gives you hope that motivates you to host Color of Child Welfare?

33:27-38:24 - Jermaine – In August 2022, UN calls for US action to address racial injustice in child welfare system. “If we were talking about 53% of White children coming to the attention of the child welfare system, 65-67% of our White children being in our local child welfare system, something would change. There would be a transformation. All hands on deck.” “Black families are valuable. Black families are capable.” Resources have been denied. Access has been restricted. Divestment in our communities. Disproportionality would go away if Black families access to economic and social resources was the same as White families.

• United Nations Committee on Elimination of Racial Discrimination
• UN CALLS FOR US ACTION TO ADDRESS RACIAL INJUSTICE IN CHILD WELFARE SYSTEM

38:25-40:59 - Luke – I hope that this platform will not only amplify the voices that have often been silenced, but that it will also lead to change in mental models that have perpetuated disproportionality. What do you believe the role of mandated reporting is?

41:00-45:57 - Jermaine - Mandated reporting is the main artery of the child welfare system. What it is and what it should are not the same thing. It is not evidence-based, nor does it show that it protects children. It is not an evidence-based policy or practice. It discourages our families from seeking support from social workers, teachers, and doctors because they know that they are mandated reporters. We may keep our sick kids at home rather than take them to the doctor. 30% of children in our system have a parent that is struggling with addiction, and yet they are expected to overcome their addiction in 15 months. It’s not realistic.

45:58-47:23 - Luke – The mandated reporting process discourages overloaded families from engaging with supportive systems that could help them overcome their challenges. What do we need to do to change that reality? Differential response?

47:24-52:15 - Jermaine – CAPTA requires that we define neglect, and yet we don’t have a national definition. Wisconsin’s definition excludes poverty as a reason for removal. Our definition includes the inability to provide for our children. Inability should be removed as many Black families don’t have the resources that make them able to provide for their children. If parents refuse to care for their children, then the system may intervene. “We are criminalizing poverty.” Trauma-induced care.How do we create good policy that eliminates racism? Racism cannot be embedded in the law. Screening tools and the screeners don’t bring experience with having been investigated or surveilled by the system.

52:16-54:37 - Luke – Remove “inability” from the neglect definition, which means that we need to address the fact that our systems have failed in empowering families to be able to care for their children. How might we create a collaborative approach to address the deficits that families experience due to lack of access to supports and resources? How do you see the current state of our collaboration of our systems to support overloaded families? What are the barriers?

54:38-58:56 - Jermaine – Dr. Joy DeGruy says “It’s the secrets that make us sick.” We need to be honest about the state of our collaboration. We need to have a paradigm shift after recognizing that some organizations have profited off the separation of Black families. We can’t collaborate if we don’t agree that Black families are valuable, that they can care for themselves. We have to also recognize that “help is not always help.” In 2016, 2017, we covered the expense of families that had been involved in child welfare so that they could attend the Color of Child Welfare conference. That’s collaboration.

• Joy DeGruy – “It’s the secrets that make us sick.”

58:57-1:01:35 - Luke – What do you believe authentic community collaboration would look like?

1:01:36-1:05:39 - Jermaine – I believe many of the right partners are already at the table. Housing Authority, Legal Aid Society, mental health partners, etc. are there. How do we strike a balance between paid folks and community members? How do we fund that so community members can show up? We have a lot of great people at the table, now we need to define what we are trying to accomplish together. How do we hold our organizations and systems accountable? “If we aren’t willing to work ourselves out of a job in child welfare, then we shouldn’t be in this space.”

1:05:40-1:06:36 - Luke – What might a mandated reporting to mandated supporting shift look like?

1:06:37-1:11:18 - Jermaine – We need to train assessors and reporters differently, and provide them with different tools. We need to address the resource deficits. We need to change the definitions of abuse and neglect so that reporters have what they need to support families. 70% of reports made are unfounded, but the damage has already been done. We need to work with schools and law enforcement so that reports are made appropriately. Joseph Reed is a double-amputee, but had an allegation against him that he kicked his daughter. His daughter was removed from his care. “Impossible.” Unnecessary trauma. We need to give money and resources to families so that they can care for themselves and families.

1:11:19-1:14:28 - Luke – The data illustrates the impact that a report can have on families.

1:14:29-1:17:39 - Jermaine – “I have never met a rich kid in foster care. Why does that not happen? Mental health, domestic violence, substance abuse occur in rich families. Why do they not enter the child welfare system? Because poverty is not an issue. I’m concerned about ASFA as it has led to the termination of parental rights. Families First Prevention Services Act may lead to more families in the child welfare system as they will be working with mandated reporters, so changes in reporting standards need to change.

1:17:40-1:18:39 - Luke – Language informs our behaviors, so language in our policies matter. What makes you optimistic about the future of this work?

1:18:40-1:20:47 - Jermaine – I’m optimistic about conversations like this with the Institute and Children’s as you have influence and power to drive us towards equity and fairness.

1:20:48-1:21:13 – Luke – Closing Statement

1:21:14-1:21:18 – Luke and Jermaine – Thank you and goodbye

1:21:19-1:23:33 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1:23:34-1:25:02 - Luke - Gratitude and Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Tim Grove – Wellpoint Care Network

:00-:33 – Tim Grove - “If we don’t fundamentally address equity, we can do all the trauma-informed care work we want quite frankly, and it probably is going to be the equivalent of making somebody feel a little bit better at the moment, but they know the world that they are going to step into when they leave the clinician’s office, or when they leave the case manager’s office is going to be full of threat and oppression. So Joy DeGruy says it quite beautifully, “Stop the oppression.”

:42-4:48 – Luke Waldo – Opening and Introduction to Tim Grove

4:53-5:16 - Luke Waldo – What are the biggest challenges facing our workforce today?

5:17-11:09 – Tim Grove – Unpacking the stress of the past 3-4 years has to be in the top 5 list. There was already a developing mental health crisis before the pandemic. If kids are our canary in the coal mine, then it has been clear for a while that. “Trauma is to mental health as smoking is to cancer.” A case manager, a child welfare worker has great exposure to trauma in their work. Families are impacted when they are reassigned to new case managers when their case manager leaves.

• The Age of Trauma (The Age of Syndemics) – Harvard Public Health

11:10-12:09 - Luke – What is moral injury, and how does it impact our workforce?

12:10-17:08 - Tim – Veterans of war have taught us so much about trauma and moral injury. Moral injury occurs when you are in a situation that compels you to complete an action that conflicts with your moral beliefs. In the case of child welfare, it may occur when a case manager has to separate siblings due to a shortage of placements.

• Moral Injury – National Center for PTSD

17:09-19:42 - Luke – How do we understand and approach our workforce’s lived experience, particularly their own adversity, and how do we support and empower our workforce with what we know now?

19:43-25:08 - Tim – What do we mean by lived experience? Developing a shared definition could be a good place to start. How do we leverage different levels of expertise from different experiences?

25:09-27:04 - Luke – How do we identify lived expertise so that they can lean more fully into what they know and are passion about? How does bias contribute to the disproportionality in our child welfare system?

27:05-31:08 - Tim – Trauma can lead to a survival response that leads to bias towards detecting that which causes fear and then avoiding it. If we pair the fear-based bias with race-based biases that exist, we justify our reactions to situations like interpreting a Black father’s loud response to a question as threatening.

31:09-33:20 - Luke – How might the lived experience of our community and workforce inform our child welfare workforce to better support overloaded families and keep them together?

33:21-39:47 - Tim – Parent Partners. We serve 1000 kids, and have 1 Parent Partner. At Wellpoint, we have achieved representation that mirrors the community that we serve. That said, it doesn’t always mean that a Black family is going to be served by a Black case manager. This will require that we have greater cross-cultural understanding.

39:48-41:31 - Luke – How has increased representation in your workforce changed your culture and the outcomes for children and families?

41:32-49:44 – Tim - You can’t talk about trauma-informed care without talking about intergenerational and historical trauma. This pushed me to “do the work”. It struck me when a Black woman came to me during an ACEs workshop to tell me that her community had experience adversity for generations, but nobody paid attention until the adversity was experienced by middle class White people.

• Joy DeGruy

49:45-50:19 – Luke – What are some of the pitfalls that lead to DEI failing?

50:20-54:37 - Tim – When opportunities come up to “stay in the room” to understand and confront the oppression that has occurred, too often people step out.

54:38-55:55 - Luke – What policy, practice and mental model changes need to occur to improve outcomes for our workforce and overloaded families?

55:56-1:01:16 - Tim – To manage caregiver capacity, we need to do less while creating more meaning. 60-hour trauma-informed care deep dive. We are asking more while offering more meaningful opportunities to engage their families. “What are we going to do with the guardians?” The guardians are struggling right now, so we need to make some big decisions on how we allocate our resources.

1:01:17-1:03:25 - Luke – Stay interviews in Family Support. What is giving our workforce meaning?

1:03:26-1:07:38 - Tim – No bullshit. They want authenticity in their workplace, which includes being honest about the reality and complexity of our work.

1:07:39-1:08:16 - Luke – What makes you optimistic about this work?

1:08:17-1:11:33 - Tim – I have many moments of worry, but I am optimistic because humans have always rallied to overcome our shared challenges. Many of the strategies to overcome these challenges will likely come from the communities that have historically been oppressed. We have also found innovative ways to confront challenges throughout our history as we will need to in cases of our mental health and climate crisis.

1:11:34-1:12:23 – Luke – What book or author has shaped your thinking?

1:12:24-1:13:03 – Tim – What Happened to You? – Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey

1:13:04-1:13:21 – Luke – Gratitude

1:13:22-1:14:44 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

1:14:45-1:16:12 - Luke – Closing and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Rebecca Murray – Executive Director, Wisconsin’s Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention Board (CANPB)
• Linda Hall – Director, Wisconsin’s Office for Children’s Mental Health (OCMH)

:00-:32 – Rebecca Murray – “When there is stability, financial stability, economic stability in the household, the stress on parents is so much lower that, most of the time, organic social connections happen for them. Right? Because when they are parenting, more than likely, their kids are at school, they’re at childcare, their after-school program, so there are natural settings where they will connect with other parents.”

:33-6:23 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to Social Isolation and Social Connectedness, and Rebecca Murray and Linda Hall.

• Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Social Isolation: The US Surgeon’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community
• Five for Families
• Five Categories of Social Connectedness of Youth
• Family Resource Centers

6:24-9:47 – Rebecca Murray – Social connections are one of five protective factors, which are central to strengthening families and healthy child development.

• Protective Factors Framework – Center for the Study of Social Policy

9:48-9:52 – Luke – Same question for Linda.

9:53-14:49 – Linda Hall – While OCMH’s focus is on children, they know that everything that happens to children happens within the context of family. Using a Collective Impact framework, they asked what would have the greatest impact on children’s mental health; social connectedness was the answer.

• Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - Social Connectedness

14:50-16:11 – Luke – Acknowledging OCMH and CANPB’s work to elevate and integrate the voice of lived experience.

16:12-17:01 - Luke – What does social isolation look like? How does it contribute to the overload of stress on families?

17:02-18:51 – Rebecca – Social isolation can occur in rural and urban settings. It doesn’t discriminate. What’s available to us in our communities?

18:52-20:36 - Linda – Structural issues get in the way. They may not be able to access healthcare to treat their concerns. Data shows that 34% of families in Wisconsin right now can’t manage a “survival” budget, and poverty causes families to become overloaded by stress.

20:37-22:33 – Rebecca – Family Resource Centers can provide some financial supports to families to be able to overcome those challenges. Children watch and learn from their parents, so supporting their parents’ knowledge and development is important. Parent Cafés can provide a more organic approach to this.

• Parent Cafés

22:34-24:06 - Linda – School mental health. 75% of all children who are receiving mental health services get it through their school. We have over 300 schools with a youth-led mental health program.

• School Mental Health

24:07-25:46 - Luke – What are the underlying root causes of social isolation?

25:47-26:43 - Linda – Trust deficits lead to disengagement with systems like our schools, mental health services, etc. Children then follow their parents’ behavior and become more isolated from those services that might support them.

26:44-28:26 - Rebecca – The Working poor have less time to engage with organic social connections like after-school activities with their children. We also have a cultural norm in this country of not asking for help.

28:27-30:55 - Linda – We need a “before stage 4 mental health system” to support the mental well-being of our children and families before it becomes a crisis.

• The B4Stage4 Philosophy – Mental Health America
• Families and Schools Together (FAST)

30:56-31:58 - Rebecca – CANPB funds FAST, which has adapted its program to meet new needs.

31:59-36:56 - Luke – Story about Child Witness and creating safe and supportive spaces through breaking bread with family and friends.

36:57-37:18 - Linda – Social isolation is not a choice.

37:19-37:43 - Rebecca – Social isolation does not discriminate.

37:44-38:54 - Linda – Social isolation vs. loneliness. How people respond to social isolation varies widely depending on what they’ve learned.

• Coalition to End Social Isolation and Loneliness

38:55-39:41 - Luke – How does social connectedness empower families and reduce the risk of child neglect?

39:42-42:44 - Rebecca –Universal family support. Parent Cafes that are built around Protective Factors. Break bread together, provide child activities, and create an environment where it is parent-led.

42:45-43:46 - Linda – Building parents’ confidence and trust can translate to their support of their children’s needs and services.

43:47-46:29 - Luke – Building trust. How might we strengthen families through the promotion of social connectedness?

46:30-47:31 - Linda – Pandemic-era economic programs kept 52 million people out of poverty, so we can’t ignore the importance of economic stability for social connectedness.

• “Government’s Pandemic Response Turned a Would-Be Poverty Surge Into a Record Poverty Decline” – Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

47:32-48:19 - Luke – Economic stability is another Critical Pathway.

• Economic Stability Critical Pathway

48:20-50:41 - Rebecca – Economic stability leads to organic social connections. Engage parents to understand what they need to be able to participate in their community.

50:42-52:10 - Linda – Unstable housing creates a lot of stress on children and families. Peer support makes a difference in achieving wellness. Paid peer support positions can help with transitions from school to home.

52:11-53:16 - Rebecca – We need to take a hard look at where we invest our tax dollars. Investing in children and families is an investment in our future.

53:17-54:27 - Luke – How do we overcome the barriers that impede social connectedness?

54:28-56:05 - Linda – Governor Evers proposed $280 million for school mental health, but only $10 million was approved by the legislature. We need to invest in our mental health like we do in our physical health.

• School-Based Mental Health State Funding
• What’s next for the ‘Year of Mental Health?’ – Cap Times

56:06-57:22 - Rebecca – We are the only developed nation without universal paid family leave. We need to talk about this as an investment.

57:23-1:01:27 - Luke – Our messaging around destigmatization has been successful, which has led to more people normalizing mental healthcare, which has led to greater demands on the system. What makes you optimistic about the future of this work?

1:01:28-1:04:42 - Linda – Supporting adults. How do we increase opportunities to create a sense of belonging for youth through community activities? Trusted peer relationships for teens make the biggest difference and last longest, so we need to build off the skills that they learn from their parents to develop healthy relationships. Young people are openly seeking support, and are telling us what they need.

1:04:43-1:05:52 - Rebecca – Collaborations like this where we come together to leverage each other’s strengths. Family Resource Centers can provide that space for greater collaboration.

1:05:53-1:06:26 - Linda – Social connectedness is a priority.

1:06:27-1:07:06 - Luke – What author or book has shaped your thinking?

1:07:07-1:07:32 - Rebecca – Book recommendations.

• The Parent Trap: How to Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our Inequality Crisis, Nate Hilger;
• Poverty, by America, Matthew Desmond

1:07:33-1:08:59 - Linda – Book recommendations.

• Bread and Spirit: Therapy with the New Poor: Diversity of Race, Culture and Values, Harry Aponte

1:09:00-1:10:09 – Closing Thoughts and Gratitude

1:10:10-1:12:13 - Luke - 3 Key Takeaways

1:12:14-1:13:44 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Host: Luke Waldo

Experts: Clare Anderson – Senior Policy Fellow – Chapin Hall at the University of Chicago

:00-:19 – Clare Anderson – “When families have access to sufficient economic and concrete supports through a variety of mechanisms, the risk for involvement with child welfare goes down.”

:20-5:10 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to Economic Stability and Clare Anderson

• Family and Child Well-being System: Economic and Concrete Supports as a Core Component – Clare Anderson et al – Chapin Hall
• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
• The Role of TANF in Economic Stability and Family Well-being and Child Safety - Clare Anderson et al – Chapin Hall

5:11-5:41 – Clare Anderson – Opening statement and gratitude.

5:42-6:22 – Luke – How has your work evolved from one of child and family well-being through a trauma and evidence-based intervention focus to an economic and concrete supports focus?

6:23-8:59– Clare – Early experience as a social worker in a hospital to the Obama administration in the Administration for Children, Youth, and Families (ACYF), from clinical work to more upstream macro and policy work, there has always been a need to follow the evidence. The evidence has evolved over time, so Clare’s thinking has followed it.

• ACYF Well-being Framework

9:00-9:27 – Luke – What did the evidence from the past few years around economic and concrete supports tell you about its intersection with child neglect?

9:28-11:55 - Clare – A few studies on living wage and child welfare involvement, Medicaid and child welfare involvement made her stop and think, “Really?” This led to the research that has been around for decades that show a strong correlation between access to economic and concrete supports and a reduction in child welfare involvement, and conversely, sudden economic shock like job loss and an increase in child welfare involvement.

11:56-12:35 – Luke – What are the underlying root causes of neglect?

12:36-15:19 - Clare – The evidence shows us that economic and concrete supports have an impact on child abuse and neglect. The lack of those supports create stressors at the individual, family, community and societal level. When we move from a Family Stress Model to a Family Investment Model, we create the bandwidth for caregivers to nurture and meet the basic needs of their children.

• Family Stress Model – National Institutes of Health
• Family Investment Model – National Institutes of Health
• System Transformation to Support Child & Family Well-Being: The Central Role of Economic & Concrete Supports – Chapin Hall Policy Brief

15:20-16:26 – Luke – Why do families that have economic stability not show up in the child welfare system?

16:27-20:21 - Clare – “Volatility on the edge of scarcity creates additional risk.” When you can buffer those risks through economic stability, then child maltreatment is less likely. Disparities between White and Black families - $180,000 and $24,000 net worth – are still disturbing.

We have mental models in this country that lead many to ignore the reality that many working families are susceptible to economic shock like the loss of a job, no access to paid family leave after the birth of a child, or a healthcare crisis that may lead to poverty.

20:22-21:05 - Luke – What are the benefits and risks of economic programs such as Women, Infant, and Children (WIC), Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and Medicaid?

21:06-24:29 - Clare – Medicaid expansion in states led to a reduction in child welfare involvement, especially screened-in reports for children under the age of 6. Conversely, they increased in states where Medicaid was not expanded. States with more generous SNAP and WIC benefits saw fewer reports, substantiations and family separation.

• Family and Child Well-being System: Economic and Concrete Supports as a Core Component – Clare Anderson et al – Chapin Hall

24:30-25:18 - Luke – Do these programs see themselves as part of the child maltreatment prevention system?

25:19-29:03 - Clare – If they are successful, then they keep the most intrusive systems from entering families’ lives. DHHS has convened a learning community of TANF and child welfare leaders to explore these questions. States are expanding Medicaid which prioritizes Social Determinants of Health to be able to pay for things like housing, food, and transportation. We can push out a lot more research that helps us reorient our approach to getting families what they need where they need it.

• “Families Are Stronger Together: TANF & Child Welfare Partnering for Prevention Learning Community (FAST-LC)”

29:04-29:36 - Luke – This information hopefully provides a roadmap for our state as to how we can bring system actors together to support families more effectively.

29:37-30:57 - Clare – We now have different language and thinking within child welfare that might advance new partnerships that inspire accountability to and responsibility for prevention.

30:58-33:12 - Luke – What are the challenges facing families when it comes to accessing these economic and concrete supports?

• Matthew Desmond – Evicted and Poverty, By America

33:13-35:19 - Clare – How might our systems take more responsibility to make things more accessible, remove barriers, and collaborate more effectively with other systems to ensure eligible families receive what they need?

35:20-37:43 - Luke – Story about Washington’s new law and how it leads to systems coordination questions as to how we ensure overloaded families are receiving the support that is available to them.

• Washington’s Keeping Families Together Act

37:44-38:24 - Luke – How might we more effectively translate the research and evidence that you’ve shared today into practical strategies?

38:25-44:37 - Clare –We need a whole different operationalization of our systems collaboration than we’ve had in the past. Are we assessing families for the right things like the potential of economic shock? “Five or six years ago, I was not animated by universal childcare policy. I am now.”

Before CAPTA, the Comprehensive Child Development Act was vetoed which would have provided universal childcare to families. Policy was then influenced by the Battered Child Syndrome approach to our work, which led to a more intrusive child welfare system. Narrow our definitions of neglect and invest in differential response approaches such as Vermont.

• Comprehensive Child Development Act
• Child Abuse and Prevention Treatment Act (CAPTA)
• “The U.S. Almost Had Universal Childcare 50 Years Ago. The Same Attacks Might Kill It Today” – Time Magazine

44:38-46:17 - Luke – What are the policies and practices that show the most promise for keeping families together?

46:18-48:32 - Clare – Childcare, housing, access to healthcare and continuity in benefits, tax credits that create buffers, and reducing employment volatility all support families. States need to use data effectively to inform their strategies specific to their families’ needs and local context.

48:33-48:47 - Luke – What makes you optimistic about the future of this work?

48:48-50:45 - Clare – “I am extraordinarily optimistic.” Systems, states, organizations, and communities are as animated by this shift in thinking as I am, and we are already seeing real progress being made. We are seeing shifts towards Mandated Supporters rather than Mandated Reporters with an understanding that support requires concrete solutions rather than nebulous responses.

50:46-52:39 - Luke – Gratitude and Closing

52:40-53:14 - Clare – Gratitude for all the researchers and families that have led to this conversation and shift in thinking.

53:15-53:19 – Luke – Final Gratitude

53:33-55:10 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways

55:11-56:38 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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ICFW Podcast - Overloaded: Understanding Neglect – Season 2

Show Notes: Catalyzing Community Change - Episode 2 - with Liz Weaver and Mark Cabaj

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Liz Weaver – Co-CEO, Tamarack Institute
• Mark Cabaj – Founder and President, Here to There

:00-:08 – Mark Cabaj – “Programmatic interventions help people beat the odds. Systemic interventions change their odds.”

:09-5:17 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to Collective Impact and Field Catalyst

• Winning the War on Poverty
• Vibrant Communities Ending Poverty

5:18-6:27 – Liz Weaver – Community is at the center of everything in my career.

• Hamilton Roundtable for Poverty Reduction

6:28-8:02 – Mark Cabaj – “Programmatic interventions help people beat the odds. Systemic interventions change their odds.”

• Sustainable Livelihoods Framework

8:03-8:53 – Luke – What role does Tamarack play in an initiative like Vibrant Communities Ending Poverty?

8:54-12:49 – Liz – Collective Impact: Context matters. Relationships and ambition within communities to make changes to complex problems like poverty matter. Developed a learning community within 12 communities. Process of reflection to develop a poverty matrix to understand the depth and experience of those living in poverty in a learning community.

• Opportunities 2000
• Building Youth Futures
• Climate Transitions

12:50-13:43 - Luke – Taking lessons learned and frameworks from previous efforts like Vibrant Communities Ending Poverty to drive new efforts to address complex issues like climate change. What role does Here to There play in community change efforts?

13:44-17:57 – Mark – Why is clear, but how is not. Scaling. How do we take all this complexity and put it into a 10-year plan?

“Plan the work, then work the plan.” Learning by doing. Align distinct actors.

Michael Quinn Patton: “Traditional evaluation can be the enemy of social innovation and change.” Introduced us to Developmental Evaluation, real-time feedback to affirm your direction or change it.

• Developmental Evaluation - Michael Quinn Patton

17:58-19:06 - Luke – Putting a pin in the Developmental Evaluation conversation to revisit the challenge of meeting the urgency of the moment while also being able to take the time to evaluate what is working and what is not.

19:07-20:53 - Luke – How do we translate Collective Impact 2.0 and Lived Experience into more approachable language?

20:54-28:56 - Liz – How do we engage the people that are closest to the problems, and authentically hear the barriers and systems they have to navigate? In the Hamilton roundtable, they learned that for anyone receiving financial benefits, there were “982 rules that regulated your life.” “That’s a lot of rules to get a little money.”

Communities Building Youth Futures – Youth-led movement still requires strong allies who ask themselves how they are part of the problem and how they can be part of the solution. No blame, all accountable standard. Lived Experience Equity - 50% table of Lived Experience, 50% allies.

• Collective Impact – FSG
• Communities Building Youth Futures
• Collective Impact 3.0

28:57-30:24 Luke – To address the power imbalance, we must aspire to power balance. Story about not building capacity for Lived Experience partner, giving them the language to effectively participate in the process. Balance is not achieved solely by having the same number of people at the table.

30:25-31:26 - Liz – Build Lived Experience capacity, compensate them, and create opportunities to build relationships outside of the project itself. How might we change?

31:27-31:32 – Luke – Anything to add, Mark?

31:33-34:38 - Mark – Collective Impact. It’s often a How problem.

1. Those most affected, know the most about it.

2. Ownership to create allies.

3. Nothing about us, without us.

Saul Alinsky. Human-Centered Design.

• “Nothing about us, without us”
• The History of Saul Alinsky’s Community Organizing approach

34:39-35:20 – Luke – Human-Centered Design led us to the Tamarack Community Change Festival. The ICFW initially learned from IDEO, George Aye, and the Greater Good Studio.

• Tamarack Community Change Festival
• IDEO
• George Aye
• Greater Good Studio

35:21-37:44 - Mark – Why is it important to be participatory in an authentic way to address issues of power? Participatory evaluation. Ripple effect mapping. “Practices have to be developed to meet the unique context” of our communities.

• Evaluating Collective Impact: 5 Simple Rules
• Ripple Effect Mapping

37:45-38:03 – Luke – Does “Nothing about us, without us” sound as good in Polish?

38:04-38:43 - Mark and Luke – Back and forth on the Polish translation.

• History of “Nothing about us, without us”

38:44-40:06 - Luke – How do you define Critical Pathways, and why are they important in community change efforts?

40:07-43:45 – Liz – Critical Pathways. Access to affordable transportation in Calgary, which led to the provision of public transportation passes to low-income individuals. Each community picks the Critical Pathways that are most relevant and pressing for their community. For example, one community might prioritize affordable transportation while another focuses on affordable housing.

43:46-48:14 – Mark - What are we trying to achieve, and how can we make it explicit? What does winning mean? What is our pathway in getting there?

Pathway to employment case study, which utilized the iterative process of human-centered design. Solving one systemic problem can reveal new problems.

• The Infinite Game - Simon Sinek

48:15-51:31 - Mark – Solving one systemic problem can reveal new problems. Zoom in, zoom out.

• Cities Reducing Poverty - Homeless day laborer pathway (Page 65)

51:32-53:06 - Luke – What is a field catalyst?

• How Field Catalysts Accelerate Collective Impact

53:07-53:53 – Liz – Introduces Mark’s work behind the idea of field catalysts and Tamarack 2030 plan.

53:54-56:12 - Mark – Field catalyst serves as an intermediary to move a field along from front-line work to collective impact efforts, from public awareness, to practice building, and advocacy.

56:13-59:27 - Liz - Field catalyst. How do you support the work evolution that is happening on the ground while also bringing that work up into the system?

How do you bring awareness to the system what is working and not working on the ground? This is how my work connects to the systems-level work. Making sense of the patterns to increase and accelerate impact.

• Bridgespan Group – Equitable Systems Change: Funding Field Catalyst From Origins to Revolutionizing the World

59:28-1:01-48 – Luke – Reaction to Mark and Liz’s field catalyst comments. What are the challenges to community change?

1:01:49-1:05:36 - Mark – When working on systems change, the best we can hope for is maybe. Most systems' challenges are uncertain, complex problems like raising a kid. Normalize challenges and failures. Challenges or failures might be rooted in scope by trying to accomplish too much without the capacity, and/or lack of buy-in from communities as leadership comes from the outside and lacks trust.

“It’s a vocation, community change, not a recipe.”

• Getting to Maybe: How the World Is Changed
• Caledon Institute of Social Policy

1:05:37-1:08:53 – Liz – If we aren’t stopping to learn after each failure or success, we are missing out on an opportunity for future improvement.

• Ecocycle Planning
• Scarcity Trap

1:08:54-1:09:35 – Luke – What are the key strategies or core principles of community change?

1:09:36-1:11:25 - Liz – Adapt a set of principles and tools to your context. Readiness. How deep you dive into the complexity of the challenge. Approach. Co-design.

1:11:26-1:13:42 - Mark – Self-care. We are in a systems transition, so we need to take care of ourselves, do the best we can, and hand off the baton to those who come after us.

1:13:43-1:16:37 – Luke – Closing thoughts and 3 Key Takeaways

1:16:38-1:17:34 – Gratitude and closing credits.

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Overloaded: Understanding Neglect – Season 2

Show Notes: Episode 1 – Understanding the Critical Pathways with the ICFW Team

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Gabe McGaughey
• Meghan Christian
• Megan Frederick-Usoh
• Leah Cerwin

:00-2:25 – Luke Waldo – Opening Credits and Introduction

2:26-2:45 – Luke and Gabe McGaughey Opening

2:46-2:58 - Luke – Why do you believe that we need an approach like Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities (SFTCCC) right now to address neglect?

2:59-3:35 – Gabe – Neglect has remained stubbornly persistent as the primary reason for family separations into the child welfare system, and accounts for around 70% of all child removals in Wisconsin and nationally.

3:36-3:39 - Luke – Can you talk more about how neglect is a complex challenge?

3:40-4:29 – Gabe – Neglect’s complexity illustrated by unstable housing. “Are there things we can learn from efforts in different communities that could be generalized into policy or systems change?”

4:30-4:35 - Luke - How would you describe SFTCCC? How are you hoping it works?

4:36-5:15 - Gabe - “In many ways, SFTCCC is about preaching to the choir, but we want to get the choir to sing the same song, on time, and in tune to support lasting change.”

Prevention efforts across the state aren’t a highly structured, connected, or funded effort like Child Protective Services.

We want to create a network of changemakers that can connect their efforts and communities to others doing similar work across the state.

Creating a network of prevention efforts provides the opportunity to cultivate not only lessons learned and new ideas, but policy recommendations generated with the people working closest with these families, and the families themselves.

5:16-5:20 - Luke – How does SFTCCC line up with other state efforts?

5:21-5:52 - Gabe - There are several high-quality efforts focused on prevention policy, and we want to help connect and elevate those efforts.

This is a 5-10 year objective that will require focus and longevity.

5:53-6:12 - Luke - What have we learned so far in SFTCCC?

6:13-7:35 - Gabe - People serving families overloaded by stress are working hard, but also see the challenges play out every day. People believe that preventing neglect is possible, and they want to come together to talk about the challenges, and possible solutions, they’re facing.

One of the biggest lessons learned is getting other people to think differently about families who are overloaded by stress. How do we start to tell stories differently that help shift mindsets that are barriers to lasting change?

7:36-7:48 – Luke – What is the Economic Stability Critical Pathway, and why is it critical in helping us achieve our objective?

7:49-9:39 - Gabe – Introducing Economic Stability Critical Pathway

• Economic Stability Critical Pathway

9:40-10:05 - Luke – What systems, organizational, and community partners have we identified and engaged as critical to this pathway? Who do we still hope to identify and engage?

10:06-13:26 - Gabe – Workforce Development Boards, TANF providers, and other partners who haven’t always seen themselves as child maltreatment prevention professionals. We are working to engage housing and anti-poverty partners. Relationship-building will be critical. Poverty-informed care through models like Mobility Mentoring.

• Mobility Mentoring

13:27-13:53 - Luke – Introduction to Meghan and Social Connectedness Critical Pathway

13:54-18:56 – Meghan Christian – Impacts of social isolation and social connectedness on how we care for ourselves and families.

• Social Connectedness Critical Pathway

18:57-19:24 – Luke - What systems, organizational, and community partners have we identified and engaged as critical to this pathway? Who do we still hope to identify and engage?

19:25-21:44 - Meghan – Those who know that they help prevent child neglect, and those who don’t know yet.

21:45-22:11 - Luke - What will success look like for this Critical Pathway?

22:12-25:16 - Meghan – Centering our lived experience. Reliable, resilient networks of organic social connectedness.

25:17-25:36 – Luke and Meghan – Thank you

25:37-26:06 - Luke – Introduction to Megan Frederick-Usoh and the Workforce Inclusion and Innovation Critical Pathway

26:07-29:53 - Megan Frederick-Usoh – Introduction to Workforce Inclusion and Innovation Critical Pathway. Burnout and turnover in our child welfare system have a profound impact on the families that they serve.

Moral injury.

Diversity and inclusion strategies need to address the lack of representation in our workforce.

• Workforce Inclusion and Innovation Critical Pathway

29:54-30:40 - Luke - What systems, organizational, and community partners have we identified and engaged as critical to this pathway? Who do we still hope to identify and engage?

30:41-32:58 - Megan – Lived experience partners. Child welfare professionals. Mandated reporters. Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity. We hope to engage more lived experience partners, particularly Peer to Peer Support Specialists.

32:59-33:51 - Luke - What will success look like for this Critical Pathway?

33:52-34:51 - Megan – Shine a brighter light on the importance of caring for and diversifying our workforce, and the relationships between our workforce and families.

34:52-35:24 - Luke and Megan – Thank you

35:25-35:48 - Luke – Introducing Leah Cerwin and the Community Collaboration Critical Pathway

35:49-37:05 – Leah Cerwin – Introducing Community Collaboration Critical Pathway

• Community Collaboration Critical Pathway

37:06-37:24 - Luke – What systems, organizational and community partners have we identified and engaged as critical to this pathway? Who do we still hope to identify and engage?

37:25-39:43 - Leah – Individuals and families with lived experience, mandated reporters – law enforcement, school staff, medical staff -, and judges and legal parties.

39:44-39:53 – Luke – What will success look like for this Critical Pathway?

39:54-41:37 - Leah – Equity. Service and systems accessibility.

36:01-36:20 - Luke and Leah – Thank you

41:57- 42:12 – Luke – Thank you and transition to what we’ve learned and our call to action.

42:13-42:48 – Luke – What have we learned?

42:49-45:05 – Gabe – Mindsets are often some of the biggest challenges and opportunities to meaningful systems change. Are families neglecting their kids, or are our systems and communities neglecting their families?

45:06-45:22 - Luke – What’s our call to action?

45:23-46:50 - Gabe – Call to action – Build new relationships and trust within and across systems and communities.

46:51-47:26 - Luke – Thank you and closing

47:27-48:54 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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In season 2 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, we will be confronting complex challenges like poverty, social isolation, and systemic racism that overload families as we explore our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities’ four Critical Pathways, our roadmaps for discovering and developing innovative solutions to these wicked problems. Through the first year of our Strong Families initiative, which included season 1 of this podcast series, we were able to align the insights and experiences of those who know these issues best with the evidence that has shown promise in advancing meaningful solutions. This collaborative effort identified four critical pathways – Economic Stability, Social Connectedness, Community Collaboration, and Workforce Inclusion and Innovation - that will shape the future of our initiative that aspires to reduce family separations for reasons of neglect. Join me, Luke Waldo, as I explore these Critical Pathways with research and policy experts Clare Anderson from Chapin Hall at the University of Chicago, Mark Cabaj of From Here 2 There, Tim Grove of Wellpoint Care Network, Linda Hall of Wisconsin’s Office of Children’s Mental Health, my Institute colleague Josh Mersky of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Rebecca Murray of Wisconsin’s Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention Board, Jermaine Reed of Fresh Start Family Services, Liz Weaver of the Tamarack Institute. Additionally, we will shine a light on these Critical Pathways through the lived experience experts of many of my close colleagues at Children’s Wisconsin’s child welfare and child maltreatment prevention programs and the caregivers with whom they have worked closely. We believe neglect is preventable. Take a journey with us on our Critical Pathways to discover some of the strategies that can help us make that belief a reality for our families and communities. The conversations begin on Wednesday, December 6th when we premiere the first episode of season 2 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect wherever you listen to your podcasts. Then come back each week on Wednesday to listen to the rest of the series.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

00:15 - Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall - Opening quote: “But I believe we have every reason to believe that we can grow a population and a workforce that can effectively meet the needs of families. But if we only stay in the deep end, I think we continue to struggle with a limited pool of front-line workers who are stretched to the max.”

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant, Wellpoint Care Network

00:40 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to bonus episode and first segment. The conversation begins in response to the following questions that I asked them to consider: How might the policies/legislation that have been passed recently impact overloaded families and neglect prevention? Where do you see the greatest opportunities through these policies to improve individual, family and community well-being that might reduce family separations for reasons of neglect?

• Safer Communities Act
• American Rescue Plan
• Family First Prevention Services Act
• Maternal, Infant, and Early Childhood Home Visiting (MIECHV)
• Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA)

3:56 – Jennifer Jones – Failures at the policy level, particularly concrete economic supports, are one reason why we haven’t seen reductions in child neglect. MIECHV, CAPTA, and the Child Tax Credit are two opportunities that help us address child neglect and promote race equity. Policy is important, but only if access is truly available to those that need it.

• Child Tax Credit
• Paid Family Leave
• Community-Based Child Abuse Prevention (CBCAP) Grants
• Jackie Walorski Maternal and Child Home Visiting Reauthorization Act of 2022

9:08 – Bryan Samuels – Policies and programs need “to see themselves less as a safety net that’s trying to catch people, and more like a springboard that’s trying to support families moving towards improved well-being.” We need to invest in a system that supports families much earlier than child welfare, so that child welfare has a smaller footprint and is involved in fewer families’ lives. We can then reinvest those child welfare dollars in family and community well-being.

13:00 – Jennifer Jones – How might we pull together many of the existing government programs (see below) to create a more comprehensive child abuse prevention system?

• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
• Social Services Block Grant (SSBG)
• Community Services Block Grant (CSBG)
• Medicaid

14:01 – Tim Grove – Remembering Uvalde, Texas and how it led to policy overcoming politics. “Can our political system actually solve problems? Can our partisanship diminish? Can people on both sides of the aisle come together?”

“Can we go back and find whatever that was after Uvalde happened, the best maybe of who we are, can we find a little bit more of that?”

• Matthew McConaughey speech on Uvalde tragedy

16:19 – Bryan Samuels – “There are always challenges to making good policy in the context of bad politics.” However, we have seen policy developed based on good science, with Family First Prevention Services Act as a recent example.

18:09 – Jennifer Jones – We have also seen evidence of bipartisanship as a response to good evidence with MIECHV. Individual and family testimony of the importance of home visiting in their lives to policymakers has proven to be effective as well.

19:11 – Tim Grove – Recent Wisconsin Youth Risk Behavior Survey report. Uvalde’s tragedy may have been the spark to get meaningful legislation passed. 30% of kids report a pervasive sense of hopelessness, which, if ignored, could have staggering implications for our future.

• Wisconsin Youth Risk Behavior Survey

20:56 – Jennifer Jones - Only 5% of the $30+ billion spent on child welfare goes to prevention. Advocate for additional funding for prevention in addition to funding for families that are struggling now. This will lead to a cost savings in our child welfare, healthcare, corrections, etc.

22:50 – Tim Grove – We are asking the same people who work with our most vulnerable kids to do more work. How do we address our limited capacity and our overloaded workforce?

24:27 – Jennifer Jones – Child welfare system needs to become a child maltreatment prevention system according to the defund, abolish child welfare movements. Jennifer believes that a prevention system should run alongside a child protection system, so that child welfare staff doesn’t have to wear three or four hats.

26:22 - Luke Waldo – Review of previous segment and introduction of upcoming segment. The workforce conversation begins in response to the following question that I asked them to consider: As we have experienced significant changes in our workforce over the past few years due to the Great Resignation, impacts of minimum wage increases, emphasis on Lived Experience; and approaches to our workforce practices and culture such as Trauma-Informed Care, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, etc., what challenges and opportunities do you see for the future of our workforce in Child Maltreatment Prevention/Child Welfare Systems?

28:41 – Bryan Samuels – Runaway and homeless youth space. Around 4 million youth experience homelessness/housing instability each year. 50% experienced homelessness for the first time when surveyed, which means prevention and intervention both need funding and support.

Child welfare shouldn’t be working directly with TANF, however, TANF should see itself as reducing the likelihood of its participants entering the child welfare system. When something bad happens in child welfare, we don’t hire more people, we ask them to do more.

Growing evidence that paraprofessionals can effectively deliver evidence-based interventions when trained well. This could be a solution as we go further upstream, so that we can get these evidence-based services scaled and into more communities. It would also reduce the stress and demands on front-line workers.

• Youth Homelessness Prevention Initiative – Chapin Hall

35:15 – Jennifer Jones - Prevention system needs to create access for families no matter where those families reside.

36:23 – Tim Grove – Can we add this funding for prevention, or will we be expected to reduce the current child welfare intervention funding if we request more prevention funding?

37:06 – Bryan Samuels – When running the Illinois child welfare system, they were able to reinvest cost savings when they reduced the number of children in the system back into more preventive services. Family First Prevention Services Act went to the Congressional Budget Office to see how the money would be spent and how much savings over time it would create.

• Congressional Budget Office Report – Family First Prevention Services Act

40:30 – Jennifer Jones - We need the political will to make the investment upfront, so that over the years we can see the savings on the deep-end systems side. We can then consider pulling money back from the deep end systems when we see that there is less need for them.

41:10 – Gabe McGaughey - A lot of our prevention services aren’t funded by federal or state dollars, but rather by local philanthropists, organizations like United Way. So how might we support local municipalities to invest more in prevention and evaluate effectively how they might improve well-being outcomes and save money for their communities?

42:17 – Luke Waldo – Introduction of workforce question.

42:38 – Tim Grove - Secondary trauma moving to Moral injury. How does this impact who you want to be as a professional and who you can be as a professional? The past few years have impacted our ability/capacity to be our best self.

• Moral Injury – Scientific American article

44:36 – Bryan Samuels - Increasing discussion of safety culture and moral injury within child welfare. Organizations need to be more committed to supervision, understanding what work demands and what we can realistically put on our staff. Think about how safety culture works in healthcare and air travel. We shouldn’t ask our pilots to work more than they can do so safely. The same should go for our child welfare staff. We should also be mindful of how long a person should be working in the same position.

49:16 – Jennifer Jones – We need to provide financial support for our workforce to be able to address their own financial challenges. How might we make our services more adaptable like virtual Home Visiting to encourage work-life balance? Invest in diversity in our workforce. Eliminate barriers that make it difficult to hire individuals with lived experience. “We have to change the face of our workforce to look more like the people and communities that are part of those systems.”

51:55 - Tim Grove – Dr. Vikram Patel’s “task shifting”. What if there was a way to distill, translate what professionals know, and support and train the local community members and leaders so that they can deliver it to their community? Task-shifters in trauma-informed care and clinical work is a real possibility, which could lead to greater trust within communities.

• Task-Shifting

54:43 - Luke Waldo – Closing and Gratitude.

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordination, Wisconsin’s Department for Children and Families

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall
• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin School of Social Work
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant, Wellpoint Care Network
• Dr. Julie Woodbury – Family Preservation and Support Manager, Children’s Wisconsin
• Ashlee Jackson – Family Support Specialist II, Children’s Wisconsin

00:00 – Bregetta Wilson – “I kind of joke a little bit. Some of my colleagues and I, we say, “We’ve got to burn it down and start all over.” And in reality, that would make a lot of sense, but it’s very unrealistic. So how can we do what we can from where we’re sitting? And how can we make some remodeling happen, so to speak, within our system?”  

00:28 - Luke Waldo – Introduction to final episode and first segment. Whether you are a child welfare director or case manager, a teacher or neighbor, I hope that you are able to find an idea from advocating for and implementing impactful, proven policies and practices to shifting how we think about and treat our communities and families that have been crushed by the heavy hand of systemic oppression and generational trauma and poverty. 

• The Water of Systems Change - FSG

4:13 – Bryan Samuels – “If I’m sitting in a child welfare director’s seat, I would” review the neglect definition and how we operationalize it to ensure that we have the best possible definition and our practice is reflective of that definition.

• Wisconsin’s Definition of Neglect

6:04 – Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Partners have helped define safety language in our child welfare system through shared decision-making.

• Lived Experience – Wisconsin Department of Children and Families (DCF)

6:45 - Luke Waldo – We can take some initial steps to reduce family separations for reasons of neglect by reviewing our state and organizational policies and how they define neglect. We can then share power by refining those policies with Lived Experience partners. Additionally, we can review data to determine if our practices truly align with our neglect definition and policies.

7:54 – Bryan Samuels - Review the data to determine if we are, in fact, separating families based on the definition of neglect, and if we could be serving families in different ways and systems.

9:20 - Jennifer Jones – If we are to tackle systemic inequities and improve health outcomes, then we have to reduce adversity and exposure to trauma. 

10:38 – Bregetta Wilson - If we are to meaningfully remedy the historical injustices in our communities, we must value the voice of Lived Experience partners and put them in positions of power that can create systems change. “…and on the back end, we’re getting the outcomes because we know that this is what families said that they need and want.” 

13:00 - Luke Waldo – We must use data to inform how we are in fact separating families and who we are disproportionately affecting. From there, how might we change policies such as our mandated reporting standards? How might we educate and train system actors like mandated reporters to confront the mental models and biases that lead to disproportionate numbers of Black, Hispanic and Native American families being investigated and separated by our child welfare system? We should elevate the voice and power of those with Lived Experience to begin tackling systemic oppression and leveling the playing field.

14:45 - Dr. Kristi Slack - We need to address mental models so that we see overloaded families as not always having control over their situations. The pandemic and recession built some empathy in our society as many people suddenly experienced hardship.

16:04 – Dr. Kristi Slack – Means-tested programs like food stamps (SNAP) and the Child Tax Credit are all policies that can serve as maltreatment prevention tools along with the coordination of other systems such as child care centers and schools to support families before they enter the system. We have to be careful to not create more surveillance. 

• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
• Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
• Earned Income Tax Credit
• Child Tax Credit

17:53 - Tim Grove – Marshall Plan to improve human capital. Relational connection is our superpower. How do we get people more safe and connected? If we increase everyone’s social connections by 20%, we create the potential for bringing our best selves to solve these complex problems. 

• State-dependent Functioning - Dr. Bruce Perry

21:20 - Luke Waldo – When we invest in concrete economic supports such as a universal basic income or SNAP, we not only reduce the likelihood of neglect for many children, but we also reduce the costs to society of child welfare, healthcare, and criminal justice, just to name a few. How might we confront mindsets that blame poverty entirely on individuals, and reflect on the reality that systems often contribute to entering and remaining in poverty? How might we build more collective empathy that leads to these policy changes that might ensure that safe, affordable housing, healthy food, and childcare is accessible to all? 

At a practice level, we should explore programs like the Early Intervention Services that divert families that are experiencing poverty from child welfare to anti-poverty and housing programs.

We need to invest in communities and programs that enhance overloaded families’ social capital.

• Early Intervention Services

22:50 - Julie Woodbury – We need to be more proactive, be prepared to meet families’ needs when they first present them. We need to be more trauma-informed, so that we can model healthy boundaries.

23:22 – Ashlee Jackson - Address mistrust by sharing that overloaded families aren’t alone, that you’ve worked with families that experience the same underlying challenges. Support and encourage them, sharing that you believe that they can get through it.

24:02 – Bregetta Wilson – Put families first when developing and implementing our policies, practices and resources.

• Wisconsin Department of Children and Families (DCF) Strategic Transformation

24:21 – Ashlee Jackson – Advocating for an expanded definition of family so that children can be placed with relatives while their parents work on what they need to do.

24:52 - Bregetta Wilson - Kinship care and kinship navigators put an emphasis on placing kids with their family members. Use data to inform changes. Lived Experience is not new to DCF as it has influenced a lot of decisions over the years like mandated foster parent training and ensuring that youth aging out of foster care have health insurance.

• Family Finding – Children’s Wisconsin
• Kinship Navigators – Wisconsin Department of Children and Families

26:35 - Luke Waldo - We do best by families when we let them lead. We have promising and effective programs like Family Finding and Kinship Navigators that seek to keep children with their families, traditions and cultures. 

27:30 - Dr. Kristi Slack – We don’t have a prevention system. In fact, identifying prevention services in communities is very complex as there is no single repository. Additionally, many prevention services don’t necessarily prevent maltreatment, so we should begin looking more carefully at what does, especially economic support programs. More specifically, prevention programs should understand the impacts of economic stress on parenting, and importance of economic mobility in their practices.

• Dr. Katie Maguire-Jack – University of Michigan
• CDC’s Essentials for Childhood Framework

30:01 - Bregetta Wilson - Build Lived Experience partners’ capacity to advance our efforts to address bias.

31:32 - Dr. Kristi Slack - Listen to families and what they need. A study that they conducted asked workers and families “what do families need?”, and the two groups had different answers. Workers cited parenting while families cited economic support. We need to know what families feel they need as they are the experts on their lives.

33:12 - Luke Waldo – We must do a better job of prioritizing families’ needs over our systems’ timelines and demands. We also need to evaluate the impacts and efficacy of many of our prevention programs, so that we might begin to centralize prevention programs that keep families safe and together into a more comprehensive prevention system. 

34:07 - Bryan Samuels - Social innovation and Collective Impact frameworks can bring people together, especially those that have not been there historically, to provide structure to the relationships, networks and systems change work.

• Social Innovation Frameworks - Social Change by Design Database – Greater Good Studio
• Collective Impact Frameworks – Tamarack Institute

36:20 – Julie Woodbury - Describes Collective Impact, data walk, the problem their community faces, and the goals that they set.

• Data Walk

38:06 - Bregetta Wilson - “Do what you can from the seat that you’re in.” As systems and organizations are implementing Lived Experience into their practice, it is important to define what the intent is so that there isn’t tokenism, but rather real application for systems change. 

40:23 – Luke Waldo – Introducing next segment.

40:38 - Tim Grove – Study with ICFW Clinical Director Dimitri Topitzes explored effectiveness of trauma-informed care. Trauma-informed care can’t just be addressed through training, but rather through culture-shaping. 

• Trauma-responsive child welfare services: A mixed methods study assessing safety, stability and permanency –Topitzes and Grove

43:48 – Bregetta Wilson - We need to compensate our Lived Experience partners, and understand the emotional labor that they carry through their work.

• Lived Experience Partners – Wisconsin Office of Children’s Mental Health

44:17 - Dr. Kristi Slack - Evidence-based practice is talking to families about all their options, finding out what they need and where there’s alignment with what’s out there, and then sharing the evidence that supports those options, so that they can make an informed decision as to what they believe will work best for them. “I’m interested in what works for whom.” 

• Evidence-Based Practice
• Family First Prevention Services Act

46:23 - Bregetta Wilson - Parents Supporting Parents program. Pairing Lived Experience partners with parents that are currently involved in the system, so that they have an advocate that truly understands their experience.

• Parents Supporting Parents - DCF

47:00 - Julie Woodbury - Bring everyone together from government to business to Lived Experience partners to social services, and then get community to work together differently through Collective Impact. Once we get the community used to working together, we can normalize this collaboration.

48:31 - Luke Waldo – Whether through Collective Impact, Social Innovation or another framework, systems and community collaboration must become normalized if we are to prevent family separations for reasons of neglect. Through Lived Experience or Peer Support programs, we share power with those most impacted by our systems, and empower leadership and ownership opportunities that can lead to meaningful systems change. Practice models like Community Response models help deflect families from the child welfare system to supportive services such as Family Resource Centers that may lead to social capital that we know is so critical in preventing future neglect.

49:34 – Jennifer Jones - “Prevention happens in partnership.” A public health approach to prevention is essential as it requires all of us. 

50:20 - Tim Grove - How do we bring together people from and within communities that don’t always talk to one another to work towards collective solutions? There is a deep resolve to solve these complex problems.

52:50 - Luke Waldo – To prevent neglect we will need to take a structural approach that requires that we partner across systems that include our child welfare, anti-poverty, and housing systems to name a few, and across our communities that include organizations and individuals that haven’t worked together or even necessarily agreed with one another on many things previously.

54:03 - Dr. Kristi Slack – Provides a number of directions that we can go to improve our child maltreatment prevention approaches – policies, public campaigns, and addressing mental models. “There’s a fine line between parental neglect of a child and societal neglect of families.”

• Children’s Trust Fund Alliance - Teresa Rafael

56:28 - Bryan Samuels - Child welfare starts on a new big idea or strategy until another one comes along, and then they abandon the previous strategy. This is an exciting, dynamic time for child welfare with more great ideas than we’ve had in a long time, so it’s important that we choose the right strategies and see them through.

59:02 – Luke Waldo – Closing. How might we take these great ideas and translate them into impactful, sustainable solutions for overloaded families? 

1:03:03 – Luke Waldo – Gratitude and Goodbye

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
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View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America 

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin School of Social Work
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network
• Dr. Julie Woodbury – Family Preservation and Support Manager, Children’s Wisconsin
• Soua Thao – Home Visitor – Children’s Wisconsin
• Ashlee Jackson – Family Support Specialist II – Children’s Wisconsin
• Theresa Swiechowski – Family Support Supervisor – Children’s Wisconsin

00:00 – Jennifer Jones – “Investing in prevention not only keeps kids safe and in their own families and communities, but it also creates significant savings in our systems. We will see savings in healthcare, we will see savings in corrections, and we will obviously see savings in the child welfare system.”  

00:22 - Luke Waldo – How might we move further upstream to prevent overloading families with stress and the potential for neglect? 

• Building Better Childhoods – Prevent Child Abuse America and Frameworks Institute

4:38 - Jennifer Jones – Our country needs to invest way more in prevention. $33 billion spent on federal child welfare each year, but only 15% is spent on prevention. We need to invest more in Home Visiting, Family Resource Centers, and anti-poverty programs such as economic concrete supports. Access to these services and supports shouldn’t be impacted by where you live, but we know that it does for too many overloaded families.

• Home Visiting
• Family Resource Centers

6:20 - Dr. Kristi Slack – There are not a lot programs or services designed specifically to address neglect. What about parenting needs to change if we are to prevent neglect? We need to get better at assessing what it is that parents need to prevent neglect. We are not likely to see significant reductions in neglect unless we treat it at a structural level, particularly in the area of financial instability and poverty. 1. It’s not one size fits all. 2. We need to learn more about what prevents neglect specifically. 3. We need to focus on systems and structural issues and how they contribute to conditions that lead to neglect.

8:54 – Jennifer Jones - Families too often get the support that they need once entering the child welfare system, which is too late. We need a child maltreatment prevention system that supports families once problems begin to occur to prevent child welfare involvement and family separation. We need to think about prevention differently that includes housing, anti-poverty programs, and addressing systemic discrimination.

11:02 - Luke Waldo – Early Intervention Services as a potential prevention investment for child welfare system. In this next segment, we discuss the challenges we face with a well-intentioned, but often overloaded workforce that frequently experiences secondary trauma or an empathy overload due to the many work-related and community-based experiences. We also are influenced by our mental models, our beliefs and biases, which can limit our ability to best serve overloaded families or deliver programs with the efficacy and compassion that is needed. 

• Early Intervention Services

12:30 - Tim Grove – Discusses the 3 month old child from previous episodes. If there was evidence of physical abuse, the child welfare caseworker would have to take the child to a Child Advocacy Center. This can be overwhelming for the child welfare case worker and manifest as secondary trauma. People that go into the helping fields have a disproportionate rate of their own trauma. This can make them more vulnerable to triggers and reenactment. Between pandemic times and high caseloads, there is greater risk of burnout. This can make it even harder to show compassion to clients. Organizations need to find balance in accommodating staff while still meeting clients’ needs.

• Child Advocacy Centers – Children’s Wisconsin

16:33 - Dr. Kristi Slack – Community Response models can support families that had been deflected from Child Protective Services. Worked with Social Development Commission’s Project Gain to provide greater access to better economic situations in Milwaukee. Through trainings and conversations with staff, discovered biases and beliefs as to why families were poor. Those mental models could impact how model was delivered. It’s interesting to see the differences between what people believe causes poverty and what research shows causes poverty. Changing mental models and cultures of our systems and organizations can improve these programs as families will feel more accepted and outreach will improve.

• Wisconsin Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention Board
• Community Response Model and Project Gain study – Berger, Collins and Slack
• Social Development Commission

19:29 – Luke Waldo – How might we become more trauma-informed? We can address these challenges by shifting our mental models towards upstream solutions and leveraging the strengths of our relationships and communities that give overloaded families greater opportunities.

20:21 – Jennifer Jones – We have to address the structural and systems issues that both hinder and help families.

21:26 - Tim Grove – Promoting evidence-based clinical solutions has to be done in tandem with a self-healing community approach such as Blueprint for Peace. When you do this, you get less Adverse Community Environments, and consequently, less Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and less neglect. Former president of the American Psychiatric Association said “Trauma is to mental health as smoking is to cancer.” We will not heal all trauma with mental health clinical interventions. There are not enough clinicians, and many people are voting with their feet by saying we need another option than a clinical pathway. We need to lift up Office of Violence Prevention and grassroots approaches. 

• Blueprint for Peace – Office of Violence Prevention – City of Milwaukee
• A Time to Heal – Milwaukee Journal Sentinel series on trauma by John Schmid – Quotes Steven Sharfstein – Former American Psychiatric Association President

24:14 - Dr. Julie Woodbury – Teach the community that it is a protective factor. Educate our community how it can support prevention.

24:50 - Tim Grove – Leverage the community to ask what they need. Discusses self-healing communities. Laura Porter study looks at individuals with 4 or more ACEs, and what themes surfaced for those that didn’t have poor health and well-being outcomes. They found that having support of 2 or more people was found as a strong theme. How might our communities serve as those supports by raking someone’s lawn, bringing over a meal to serve as those supportive people?

• Self-healing communities in Washington - Laura Porter

28:24 - Luke Waldo – It takes a village to raise a child. How might we rebuild our communities that have been disconnected? If we have addressed our mental models, built trust with our communities, then we have created the conditions in which policy, practice and resource flow changes can be effectively targeted to have the greatest possible effect for overloaded families and communities. 

29:38 - Jennifer Jones - Key strategies from the CDC for preventing neglect and adversity. 1. Strengthen economic supports; 2. Promote social norms that protect against violence; 3. Invest in Early Childhood programs; 4. Implement services and supports for ACEs, substance abuse and mental health. 5. Improve environments. CDC says if we invest more in these upstream approaches, we will see a reduction of 44% in depressive disorders, 24% in asthma, 13% in heart disease, 6% in cancer and 15% in unemployment. This keeps families together AND saves our society a lot of money.

• Child Neglect Prevention Strategies - Center for Disease Control (CDC)

31:54 - Dr. Kristi Slack – Access to a centralized place for all families should exist when they are facing a critical situation, so that they can receive emergency assistance. Project Gain was successful in addressing these concrete needs. Shares a story about a person that needed steel-toed boots that allowed him to get a good-paying job. Shares a story about a mom that needed a refrigerator to keep food cold for her child, and she asked if she should call Child Protective Services on herself because she didn’t know what else to do. 211 is an option, but it would be helpful to have a go-to place.

• 211 for Essential Community Services

34:05 - Soua Thao - Connects families to community resources like English as a Second Language classes to support them in improving their language skills, and consequently, access to employment. Provides support in completing job applications or referring to the Hmong American Center, so that they get the support they need.

• Children’s Wisconsin’s Home Visiting programs
• Northcentral Technical College – English Language Learning program
• Hmong American Center

36:01 - Luke Waldo – If we focus our policies and practices on prevention services and investing in families and communities through concrete economic supports, then we should see an improvement in outcomes for our children, families and communities. In this final segment, we discuss the opportunities to increase resources to overloaded families, keep families together through extended families, and increase prevention through education in our adjacent systems like education and healthcare. We close by sharing how many of these drivers can come together through the example of Prevent Child Abuse America (PCAA).

36:47 - Jennifer Jones – A Healthy Families America (HFA) site is offering $500 a month for housing allowances to eligible families. Delaware is looking at universal cash assistance. Providing cash assistance to families reduces child maltreatment.

• Where the Guaranteed Income Movement is Going Next – Vox article

37:39 - Ashlee Jackson – Keep children with extended family and close relationships such as godparents to maintain family and cultural traditions and reduce family separations.

• Kinship Care - Transfer of Guardianship

38:56 - Theresa Swiechowski – Prevention, prevention, prevention. Introducing family education back into schools, doctor’s offices, and family support programs. 

39:50 - Jennifer Jones – PCAA is the oldest and largest organization committed to preventing child maltreatment by providing programs that are backed by evidence.   Four main focus areas: 1. Home visiting (HFA) in 600 sites. 2. State chapter networks. Advocacy, research, network to create conditions for families to thrive. 3. Policy work. Advocating for MIEHCV, economic and concrete supports like Child Tax Credit. 4. Communications function. Released Building Better Childhoods with Frameworks Institute to amplify message and mission.

• Healthy Families America
• Maternal, Infant, and Early Childhood Home Visiting (MIECHV)
• Prevent Child Abuse Wisconsin
• Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA)
• Frameworks Institute

42:17 - Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways

46:45 – Closing and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant, Wellpoint Care Network
• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Dr. Julie Woodbury – Family Preservation and Support Manager, Children’s Wisconsin
• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Hannah Kirk – Healthy Support Supervisor, Children’s Wisconsin
• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin School of Social Work

0:00 – Bryan Samuels – “We often miss the opportunity to recognize that the relationships that are needed to get into communities and to successfully leverage the assets that exist there requires trust-building and power-sharing.”

00:24 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to the child welfare system’s organizing principles, systems change and its drivers – policies, practices, resource flow; relationships and power dynamics; and mental models.

• How the Child Welfare System Works – Children’s Bureau
• The Water of Systems Change - FSG

5:04 – Tim Grove – We too often celebrate individual efficiencies and productivity in child welfare rather than lowering caseloads and addressing systemic issues. We risk burnout. Explores the impacts of Pair of ACEs and equity on the cycle of healing people and sending them back into combat. 

• Dr. Wendy Ellis – Pair of ACEs

8:26 – Jennifer Jones – Address systemic and community-level inequities to improve family well-being.

• Adverse Childhood Experiences Questionnaire – Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University

9:48 – Bryan Samuels – To understand what communities need, there must be authentic engagement and trust building, which often conflict with system timelines.

11:16 – Luke Waldo – If our systems face a trust deficit, then we must address them by better understanding and often challenging mental models. Flip the waterfall, turn the tables as Julie mentioned in the last episode.

12:01 - Dr. Julie Woodbury – What are the top issues in your community? What could we do about it? “We judge others on their behaviors, and ourselves on our intentions.” 

13:23 – Bryan Samuels – Engaged community residents to promote healthy development. Community is a powerful lever in changing the day to day lives of people. Systems Transformation framework. There are already assets in communities to leverage.

• Systems Transformation Framework – Chapin Hall

14:56 - Tim Grove - Address bias to promote equity.

16:54 - Luke Waldo – Building trust requires that we authentically engage communities, share power, and give them leadership and ownership opportunities. 

18:12 - Bregetta Wilson – We make up the system. How do we level the playing field? 

19:25 – Bryan Samuels – California Endowment funded a number of community engagement efforts throughout California and had varying outcomes.

• Building Healthy Communities – California Endowment

20:40 - Hannah Kirk – Building formal and informal supports in child welfare programs. 

• Children’s Wisconsin’s Child Welfare programs

21:36 – Bregetta Wilson – The importance of consistency from child welfare professionals. The power dynamics that exist within our court system. The power of language in building relationships and trust. 

24:24 – Luke Waldo - Changing population level outcomes requires policies, practices and resources to address the underlying root causes that we’ve discussed. 

25:38 - Bryan Samuels - Community Pathways, Family First Prevention Services Act, Home Visiting, and Family Resource Centers to provide support to overloaded families when they need it most.

• Family First Prevention Services Act – Chapin Hall Toolkit
• Home Visiting
• Family Resource Centers

28:14 - Dr. Kristi Slack –Community response for deflected populations so that they receive actual engagement from supportive services such as Family Resource Centers. 

29:12 - Jennifer Jones - Cutting short TANF benefits led to increase in child maltreatment reports.

• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)

29:57 - Bregetta Wilson – What if we gave families the opportunity to buy a home and then wrapped supportive services around them to build self-efficacy and address poverty? 

• Evicted by Matthew Desmond

32:20 - Luke Waldo – Systems collaboration must become normalized if we are to prevent family separations for reasons of neglect.

32:52 - Dr. Kristi Slack – Systems integration conversations have been happening for a long time. Risks and benefits of systems integration and collaboration. Siloed systems need better coordination.

35:40 - Bryan Samuels – Policies that impact cross-systems collaboration through an example of Medicaid and Child Welfare. Flexible funding and time are needed to reform our child welfare system into a more integrated child well-being system.

• Medicaid and Child Welfare

40:09 - Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways

43:10 – Closing and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

View Details

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Julie Woodbury – Family Preservation and Support Manager, Children’s Wisconsin

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Ashlee Jackson – Family Support Specialist II, Children’s Wisconsin
• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Theresa Swiechowski – Family Support Supervisor – Children’s Wisconsin
• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin School of Social Work
• Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network
• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Hannah Kirk – Healthy Support Supervisor – Children’s Wisconsin

0:00 – Julie Woodbury – “It’s not somebody else’s problem, it’s everybody’s problem.”

00:14 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to the child welfare system’s organizing principles, systems change and its drivers – policies, practices, resource flow; relationships and power dynamics; and mental models.

• How the Child Welfare System Works – Children’s Bureau
• The Water of Systems Change - FSG

4:36 – Ashlee Jackson – Addressing mistrust by clarifying child welfare’s role and goals for the families it serves.

5:50 – Jennifer Jones – Racial disparities in child welfare and access to community supports.

6:35 – Theresa Swiechowski – “Parents don’t wake up and say, ‘Man, I just can’t wait to have mental health issues today…to have my car break down today....to be in a system.” Navigating our systems is really hard, and it can lead to people feeling shame, isolation, and shutting down.

8:23 – Dr. Kristi Slack – The experience of being reported to or investigated by the child welfare system can be traumatic. “If there were other ways to help families that didn’t need to be there, then we should pursue those other strategies.”  

8:58 – Luke Waldo – How might we divert overloaded families that may not need child welfare intervention to supportive services that keep their families together and help avoid the trauma and mistrust that comes from family separation? Introduction of next speakers that discuss the challenges presented within our policies, practices and resource flows. 

9:44 – Jennifer Jones – Considering the complex relationship between race, poverty and neglect, “by putting an actual bigger emphasis on addressing poverty, we should see, without a doubt, a decrease in neglect cases in the U.S.” We spend $33 billion federally on our child welfare system and only 15% of that on prevention programs. Invest more in anti-poverty and prevention community-based resources.

• The Social Welfare Policy Landscape and Child Protective Services: Opportunities for and Barriers to Creating Systems Synergy – Dr. Megan Feely

12:55 – Theresa Swiechowski – Introduction to Children’s Northern Wisconsin child welfare programs. Families are in crisis when she first meets them.

• Children’s Wisconsin’s Child Welfare programs

14:37 – Ashlee Jackson – Policies change when their impacts are felt closer to home. How might we treat the impacts of trauma and Adverse Childhood Experiences like we have treated the opioid crisis?

15:50 – Luke Waldo – How might we change how policymakers and systems leaders see overloaded families, so that they implement policies that strengthen families and keep them together? Introduction of next speakers that discuss our society’s role with our policies, practices and resource flows. 

16:47 – Bryan Samuels – Policy impacts practice. Policy changes need to be made to enable the work at the community level. “Shift resources, shift power, and then ultimately, change outcomes.”

18:25 – Dr. Kristi Slack – If you change policies, change outcomes. Cognitive load makes it more difficult for parents to care for their children. What part of that is society’s responsibility? Economic safety net as a child maltreatment prevention strategy.

• Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
• CDC’s Essentials for Childhood Framework
• Center for the Study of Social Policy’s (CSSP) Protective Factors Framework

22:33 – Luke Waldo – It’s striking to hear Dr. Slack talk about the social safety net, a concept that assumes individuals or families will fall, as a set of supports that too often barely gets overloaded families above the meager poverty line. Introduction of next speakers that discuss accessibility of social safety net and the impacts of relationships and power dynamics on mistrust between systems and communities.

23:49 – Dr. Kristi Slack – Accessibility of social safety net programs such as WIC and SNAP. Tax credits and direct cash assistance can have sizable impacts on families. Community response such as Family Resource Centers can divert families from the child welfare system.

• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
• Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
• Earned Income Tax Credit
• Child Tax Credit

25:22 – Bryan Samuels – Child welfare needs partners at the table if progress is going to be made. There is a lot of distrust between child welfare and communities. 

25:51 – Dr. Julie Woodbury – The power dynamics between policymakers, business leaders, and families has shifted during the pandemic, and the tables have turned as families’ needs and demands have become more prominent. Leveraging those relationships to change the conversation is at the center of collective impact.

• Collective Impact – Collective Impact Forum

27:12 – Luke Waldo – How we think about and see families will determine how we develop policies, how we serve and support them, and how we share power and community with them. 

28:30 – Dr. Kristi Slack – Mandated reporters as sources of support rather than surveillance. Community Response models to provide access to needed resources to overloaded families.

• System Transformation through Community Leadership - Chapin Hall
• Wisconsin’s Community Response Program for Families That Have Been Reported for Child Maltreatment – Dr. Kristen Slack et al.

29:59 – Tim Grove – Reporting is subjective and can be impacted by bias. When people are stressed, people may be more likely to lean into their bias. System actors need adequate resources and support to be able to be compassionate and empathic, rather than to lean into their biases.

32:23 – Dr. Julie Woodbury – Model healthy boundaries and support networks with clients, while also doing this with the community so that we can educate everyone to be a protective factor. “It’s not someone else’s problem, it’s everyone’s problem.”

33:58 – Luke Waldo – Introduction of final segment that focuses on those that work in the child welfare system with the intention of being part of a benevolent system, as Tim mentioned earlier, and the many challenges they face. These challenges are often a direct result of our systems’ policies and demands.

35:00 – Bregetta Wilson – System timelines conflict with social timelines – employment, etc. Get to know the family first, as it changes the perspective on who they are. 

37:45 – Ashlee Jackson – The services, goals and impact of Family Support program.

• Intensive In-Home services
• Nurturing Parenting Programs

39:12 – Hannah Kirk – Educate community on the purpose of child welfare. Community outreach to be more proactive as a system could change relationships and strengthen families.

41:16 – Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways

44:35 – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Ashlee Jackson – Family Support Specialist II, Children’s Wisconsin

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Soua Thao – Home Visitor – Children’s Wisconsin
• Hannah Kirk – Healthy Support Supervisor – Children’s Wisconsin
• Theresa Swiechowski – Family Support Supervisor – Children’s Wisconsin

0:00 – Ashlee Jackson – “Just because one rose grew through the crack in the concrete is great, but if we took off that block of concrete, how many would grow?”

00:11 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to how root causes of neglect – trauma and systemic oppression – overload families.

2:58 – Bregetta Wilson – Shares her lived experience with the child welfare system when she was a child, her mother’s struggles, and her sister’s support and influence.

5:15 – Luke Waldo and Soua Thao – The challenges that Hmong families experience with language barriers.

6:17 – Hannah Kirk – Culture differences and the need for cultural competence in the child welfare system. 

8:14 – Hannah Kirk – The mistrust that often exists between the families and professionals that work together in the child welfare system.

9:43 – Ashlee Jackson – Mistrust with the systems that should be there to support families – schools, healthcare, etc. – as there is fear that they will be reported to child welfare. 

11:34 – Luke Waldo – While overloaded families face many challenges, they also aspire to overcome them.

12:35 – Theresa Swiechowski – Families struggle with mental health and substance abuse, and have limited resources to support them. These challenges lead to financial and housing instability.

16:11 – Soua Thao – Housing and financial instability. Lack of resources to support families with childcare, mental health, and housing. Soua tells a story about a family that was recently evicted.

19:30 – Luke Waldo – How do we start to recognize that we too often punish children for their parents’ past?

20:16 – Hannah Kirk – The impacts of segregation and bias. 

20:42 – Luke Waldo – How these many challenges pile on and overload families.

21:36 – Luke Waldo – How might we change our systems and empower families, so that they may overcome these complex challenges?

22:17 – Bregetta Wilson – Shares more of her story when she was a child in the child welfare system, and when she asked her case worker, “Can you help my mom?”

24:40 – Hannah Kirk – Talks about how families are strong and the importance of seeing families through their strengths. “What has happened?” versus “What did you do?”

27:14 – Ashlee Jackson – Shares her lived experience with the child welfare system and the need to advocate for herself.

28:29 – Theresa Swiechowski – Talks about her a-ha moment early in her career when she first understood that an overloaded mother was doing the best she could for her daughter by sending her to camp all day.

31:04 – Luke Waldo – If we walk in the door asking what families need rather than what families did, it would change our approach of how we work with families.

31:30 – Soua Thao – Discusses the importance of cultural traditions and family support. 

• Hmong American Center

34:05 – Hannah Kirk – Making a point to talk about families’ strengths. 

36:48 – Ashlee Jackson – The power of resilience, resourcefulness and building a network.

37:54 – Theresa Swiechowski – Resilience is a superpower. The strengths and challenges of family involvement. 

39:41 – Soua Thao – Parents’ enthusiasm for learning how to become better parents.

40:47 – Theresa Swiechowski – “Strong, funny, optimistic people doing their best.” 

42:40 – Ashlee Jackson – “They love their kids.” 

43:14 – Soua Thao – Parents want the best for their kids.

43:53 – Luke Waldo – Gratitude and 3 Key Takeaways

47:30 – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin; Founder, Prof2Prof; Affiliate, Institute for Research on Poverty
• Bryan Samuels – Director, Chapin Hall
• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network

0:03 – Jennifer Jones – Opening statement on systemic challenges and poverty.

00:59 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to another root cause of neglect - poverty.

• Dr. Jerry Milner and David Kelly article: It’s Time to Stop Confusing Poverty with Neglect.

4:47 – Kristi Slack – Child welfare statistics and disparities. Impact of poverty and housing instability on families and child welfare involvement. Economic safety net’s impact on child maltreatment prevention.

• Institute for Research on Poverty article: Preventing Child Maltreatment and Neglect in the United States: Opportunities for Change

9:07 – Gabe McGaughey and Kristi Slack – Poverty is a constellation of issues. Poverty compounding other risk factors.

13:07 – Luke Waldo – Family vulnerability as a consequence of systems’ failures.

14:15 – Bryan Samuels – Economic loss, unemployment, and housing instability as the most likely predictors of child welfare involvement. Financial benefits, childcare, housing stability, and employment as a social safety net.

16:12 – Jennifer Jones – Child well-being system to support overloaded families. Economic and concrete supports reduce risk of child welfare involvement.

• Prevent Child Abuse America article: Addressing the Root Causes of Child Neglect

21:01 – Kristi Slack – Complex, multi-faceted nature of neglect. Class-action lawsuit that led to the Norman Fund for overloaded families living in poverty.

• Norman Fund

23:32 – Kristi Slack – Challenges that arise when families are experiencing housing instability.

25:26 – Luke Waldo – Complicated relationship between poverty and child neglect. Introduction to social capital.

26:53 – Bregetta Wilson – Self-efficacy. The stress and impacts of poverty.

30:33 – Gabe McGaughey and Tim Grove – The impact of trauma and social capital on economic mobility.

• Raj Chetty Atlantic article
• Scaling Wellness in Milwaukee (SWIM)

34:02 – Bregetta Wilson – The impact of planting seeds on self-efficacy.

35:37 – Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways

38:07 – Closing credits and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Opening quote: Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network
• Bryan Samuels – Director, Chapin Hall

0:04 – Tim Grove – Opening Quote on Trauma and Equity

:52 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to root causes of neglect – trauma and systemic oppression.

3:23 – Luke Waldo and Jennifer Jones – Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) and Adverse Community Environments.

• Wendy Ellis.
• Pair of ACEs - Adverse Community Experiences

5:41 - Bregetta Wilson – Dorothy Roberts’ Torn Apart reading and the structures of bias built into child welfare systems.

• Torn Apart: How the child welfare system destroys Black families–and how abolition can build a safer world by Dorothy Roberts

8:25 – Luke Waldo – Importance of facing the realities of inequities and generational trauma in our society.

9:05 - Tim Grove – Impacts of ACEs, trauma, and equity.

• Original ACEs study
• Dr. Joy DeGruy
• Dr. Maria Yellow Horse Brave Heart
• Sam Simmons
• Fran Kaplan & Reggie Jackson
• Center for Community Resilience

13:01 – Bregetta Wilson – How are we educating the system actors like mandated reporters? Generational trauma from generational child welfare involvement. Bias.

15:46 – Luke Waldo – Prevalence of ACEs. ICFW ACEs studies. Disproportionality statistics.

• ICFW Adverse Childhood Experiences’ studies
• Wisconsin Out-of-Home Care Report (2020)
• Wisconsin child population demographics: US Census Quick Facts (2020 Estimates)

17:48 – Luke Waldo and Jennifer Jones – Systemic oppression and disparities.

• Addressing the Root Causes of Neglect Article
• Change in Mind Institute

21:39 – Bryan Samuels – Child welfare disparities. Hispanic and African-American families in child welfare system.

• Illinois Department of Children and Family Services Statistics
• National Child Maltreatment Data from the Administration for Children and Families

24:39 – Gabe McGaughey – How might data better inform us?

25:29 – Bryan Samuels – How data might more effectively inform the child welfare and child maltreatment prevention systems.

27:56 – Luke Waldo – What would families change about the child welfare system?

28:24 – Bregetta Wilson – Let families lead.

29:19 – Luke Waldo – Closing introduction to speakers.

29:45 – Jennifer Jones - The legacy of systemic racial trauma. Positive Childhood Experiences.

• Examining the Association between ACEs, Childhood Poverty and neglect, and physical and mental health: Data from two state samples
• Positive Childhood Experiences and Adult Mental and Relational Health in a Statewide Sample: Associations Across Adverse Childhood Experiences Levels

34:44 – Bryan Samuels – The real challenges of the child welfare system.

39:36 – Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways

41:58 – Closing Credits and Gratitude

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Check out our upcoming events.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jennifer Jones – Chief Strategy Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America
• Bryan Samuels – Executive Director, Chapin Hall
• Dr. Kristi Slack – Professor, University of Wisconsin; Founder, Prof2Prof; Affiliate, Institute for Research on Poverty
• Hannah Kirk – Healthy Start Supervisor, Children’s Wisconsin
• Theresa Swiechowski – Family Support Supervisor, Children’s Wisconsin
• Ashlee Jackson – Family Support Specialist II, Children’s Wisconsin
• Bregetta Wilson – Lived Experience Coordinator, Wisconsin’s Department of Children and Families
• Tim Grove – Senior Consultant – Wellpoint Care Network
• Dr. Julie Woodbury – Family Preservation and Support Manager, Children’s Wisconsin

:31 – Luke Waldo – Introduction to Overloaded: Understanding Neglect podcast and Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative. 

• Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities

3:33 – Luke Waldo – Child neglect and abuse statistics. How is child neglect defined?

• Wisconsin Out-of-Home Care Report (2020)

4:56 – Jennifer Jones – Definitions of neglect differ across the country. Wisconsin’s definition of neglect, which specifically includes “for reasons other than poverty”.

• Wisconsin Department of Children and Families
• Wisconsin’s Definition of Neglect
• Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA)

7:51 – Bryan Samuels – Child neglect national and state statistics. Why neglect is the primary reason for family separation in child welfare systems.

10:43 – Dr. Kristi Slack – Child neglect and poverty. Systems’ failures that lead to overloaded families.

12:51 – Luke Waldo – Introduction of Lived Experience and Direct Practice experts.

13:12 – Hannah Kirk – Defining child neglect.

13:40 – Theresa Swiechowski – Defining child neglect.

13:55 – Ashlee Jackson – Poverty and neglect. 

14:22 – Bregetta Wilson - Defining child neglect.

14:31 – Hannah Kirk – Mental health and substance use challenges.

15:44 – Theresa Swiechowski – The gray areas of neglect.

17:54 – Luke Waldo – Complexity of neglect. Introduction of stories about individuals and families that experienced neglect.

18:48 – Bregetta Wilson – Social determinants of health. Story about an 18 year old young man who had been involved with the child welfare system for much of his childhood. Story about a mother who went to the system to ask for help, but then had her children taken from her.

• Social Determinants of Health

24:00 – Tim Grove – Story about a 3 month old child that experienced neglect. Trauma as an underlying root cause. Trauma statistics in the child welfare system.

30:23 – Luke Waldo – How families become overloaded by stress.

30:54 – Dr. Julie Woodbury – Mental health and stress piling on overloaded families.

32:18 – Bryan Samuels – The intersection of poverty and neglect. 

32:54 – Luke Waldo – 3 Key Takeaways. 

35:21 - Closing Credits and Gratitude.

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Announcing Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, a new podcast series from the Institute for Child and Family Well-being.

Neglect is a complex and wicked problem, but it’s one that we believe is preventable if we work together to reimagine how we support families overloaded by stress. Neglect is a public health crisis, as it’s the most common reason that children are separated from their families by the government. 1 in 3 of all US children experience a Child Protective Services investigation, 1 in 10 have a confirmed allegation of maltreatment, and children of color are disproportionately represented in foster care. Nearly 7 in 10 children in foster care are separated from their families due to neglect.

The Overloaded: Understanding Neglect podcast represents the important first step of building a shared understanding of the problem and will serve as a foundation for future innovations in practice, policy, and systems change. Join host Luke Waldo, Director of Program Design and Community Engagement at the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, as he explores these issues with research and policy experts Tim Grove (Wellpoint Care Network), Jennifer Jones (Prevent Child Abuse America), Bryan Samuels (Chapin Hall), and Dr. Kristi Slack (University of Wisconsin), Lived Experience expert Bregetta Wilson (Wisconsin Department of Children and Families) and five of his colleagues from Children’s Wisconsin’s child welfare and child maltreatment prevention programs. Through these conversations, we developed a compelling narrative that seeks to build a shared understanding of the realities of overloaded families, so that we might find solutions that reduce family separations for reasons of neglect.

Join the conversation on Wednesday, September 21st when we premiere the first episode of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect wherever you listen to your podcasts. Then tune in each week on Wednesday to listen to the rest of the series.